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1 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:18:24pm

Very serene. Just in time for Festivus.

2 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:20:00pm

Clouds reach for the stratosphere... do they have feelings? Could they tell stories of the humans below, in their ships made miniscule by the stature of the ocean?

With but shopping days to go, we have the right tune for you:

3 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:23:57pm

It's World AIDS Day today.

People living with HIV:

33.4 million people living with HIV worldwide
31.3 million adults
15.7 million women
2.1 million children under 15

New HIV cases in 2008:

2.7 million people
2.3 million adults
430,000 children under 15

HIV-related deaths in 2008:

2 million total deaths

4 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:24:01pm


Well now,
Brooks run into the Ocean,
Ocean run into the sea
I don't run into my baby, you know man
Somebody's got the best of me
But I say that's all right...

5 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:51pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

Cures for HIV: zero
Lifespan of person diagnosed with HIV: ??

People think we've fixed HIV, and people with HIV will live a good long life just like the rest of us. Truth is, no one knows how long one will live. The "treatments" have not been around long enough to say. And a lot of "treatments" wreck havoc on a person's day-to-day life in ways most people have no idea.

6 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:47:08pm

Clearly HIV is just a code word.

/

7 borgcube  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:50:47pm

Drew Brees is a stud. What a performance tonight.

8 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:52:36pm

Wow! Turns out the Monday Night Football game had a special guest in attendence: Skeletor.

9 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:53:44pm

re: #7 borgcube

Yeah. I'm glad he shut that narcissistic bitch Bill Belichick up, and put him in his place for a bit.

/Off to Google images to search for Bill Belichick, jussst to make sure

10 borgcube  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:53:57pm

re: #1 Sharmuta

Ok, I'll bite. What in the heck is that?

11 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:56:07pm

re: #10 borgcube

YOU SHOULD JUST GOOGLE IT IF YOU DONT KNOW!

/Or Wiki

12 borgcube  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:58:34pm

re: #9 TheMatrix31

No kidding. I was hoping NO would have piled on a couple of more scores just to give Mr. Hoodie a taste of his own medicine.

But we here in San Diego have a new favorite coach to despise, Josh McDaniels, Hoodie Jr. What a punk.

13 borgcube  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:00:48am

re: #11 TheMatrix31

I did after I posted. I think I'm the only person on the planet who has never seen a Seinfeld episode. Or Cheers. Or fill_in_the_blank hospital or cop shows either.

14 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:03:48am

WindupBird doesn't know all that much about football but he likes the Saints 8-)

15 BryanS  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:04:43am

re: #1 Sharmuta

Very serene. Just in time for Festivus.

I'm a fan of the Christmahanukwanzaakah ad from Virgin Mobile.

16 checked08  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:16:06am

Anyone hear about "The Family", that odd religious outfit that councils adulterous Republican politicians? Seems they've been pushing their bigotry in Uganda.

"The Family" Behind Anti-Gay Act in Uganda

Africa has increasingly become a battle ground in the global proxy wars led by the American Religious Right. An important dimension of the struggle was discussed yesterday, by Jeff Sharlet, Talk to Action contributor and author of The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, appeared on the nationally syndicated NPR program, Fresh Air, with Terry Gross. In the course of the interview, Sharlet discussed the role of such prominent Family members in the news as Sen. John Ensign, Rep. Bart Stupak and Rep. Joe Pitts.

Sharlet also revealed that the sponsor of the notorious proposed, Ugandan Anti-Homosexuality Act, David Bahati's is a member of The Family, as are other leading advocates, as well as President Museveni. There is a growing international effort to stop the bill.


Link to the text of the bill
Caught a cold, took the day off from work. No stupid jokes to post tonight. Good night

17 carnaby  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:25:02am

Nice looking ocean.

18 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:25:19am

re: #16 checked08

Anyone hear about "The Family", that odd religious outfit that councils adulterous Republican politicians? Seems they've been pushing their bigotry in Uganda.


Link to the text of the bill
Caught a cold, took the day off from work. No stupid jokes to post tonight. Good night

Heard about it, but I'm not sure what to make of it. Most of it was an interview with Sharlet, who just released a book that pushes The Family, and who is apparently the only person who's written about it. A lot of it sounds awfully similar to the Illuminati - to be blunt, wild-eyed speculation without much in the way of actual fact backing it up. There seems to be at least some small kernel of truth in there somewhere, but a lot of the allegations made are hard to swallow and don't seem to have much support.

Seems odd, too, that an organization that's been around since the 30s, with this kind of scope, has flown completely under the radar all this time.

While listening to the interview, I kept wondering if Tom Hanks would be cast for the movie version.

19 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:34:22am

re: #9 TheMatrix31

His place? You mean first place, right?

20 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:40:04am

re: #19 Fenway_Nation

;) And whats the insinuation there?! AFC EAST?!

21 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:47:11am

re: #12 borgcube

No kidding. I was hoping NO would have piled on a couple of more scores just to give Mr. Hoodie a taste of his own medicine.

But we here in San Diego have a new favorite coach to despise, Josh McDaniels, Hoodie Jr. What a punk.

How's San Diego doing against New England in meaningful (i.e. postseason) games? Hate Mr. Hoodie and the Pats all you want- San Diego doesn't even register with us...the laughable accolades heaped on the Jets for mouthing off like little punks after beating NE in September before New England broke their feet from kicking their asses so hard does register.

Kind of like playing Jay Cutler twice a year.

22 AK-47%  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:51:21am

I am just getting on line here in Germany (it's 9:45 am) and missed last night's thread about why Charles abandoned the Right. I was never on board, but I agreed with the Jeffersonian notion that "the government is best that governs the least".

Unfortunately, the Right took that to its extremem: the ideal government is one that does not govern at all.

And in those areas where it is expected to operate, such as the military, it does not audit or control its spending, it just trusts private contractors to act in the public interest.

Jefferson's ideal would work if we were all yeoman farmers, living on our own land, barely within sight of the smoke from our neigbor's chimney. In a world where we enter into contracts and agreements entirely voluntarily and out of our sense of self-interest.

But that was more of an ideal than a reality even in Jefferson's time and is even less applicable now.

23 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:06:00am

re: #20 TheMatrix31

;) And whats the insinuation there?! AFC EAST?!

Yep. It's not much of a division, but it's still ours.

24 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:07:59am

re: #23 Fenway_Nation

I'm dreaming of a time where the AFC East wasn't so shitty, and the Patriots didn't reign supreme.

Those were some great years :)

25 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:10:21am

re: #24 TheMatrix31


The best was yet to come...

Say, how 'bout those Texans? What's wrong- did they go for it on 4th and 2 late in the game, too?

26 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:12:23am

What'd I say downstairs?

That post is already top story on memeorandum. Wheee!

[Link: www.memeorandum.com...]

27 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:13:49am

Dreadzone : Fight The Power

28 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:14:43am

re: #22 ralphieboy

I am just getting on line here in Germany (it's 9:45 am) and missed last night's thread about why Charles abandoned the Right. I was never on board, but I agreed with the Jeffersonian notion that "the government is best that governs the least".

Unfortunately, the Right took that to its extremem: the ideal government is one that does not govern at all.

And in those areas where it is expected to operate, such as the military, it does not audit or control its spending, it just trusts private contractors to act in the public interest.

Jefferson's ideal would work if we were all yeoman farmers, living on our own land, barely within sight of the smoke from our neigbor's chimney. In a world where we enter into contracts and agreements entirely voluntarily and out of our sense of self-interest.

But that was more of an ideal than a reality even in Jefferson's time and is even less applicable now.

So, let's not take note of Jefferson's political philosophy, nor should we try to put it in effect, nor should we glean anything from it. Why waste our time, since it's only an ideal, not worth our time.

So Ralphie, what's the alternative?

29 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:14:46am

Culturekitchen!

Before there was a "netroots" or a "rightroots" there was a group of blog communities that moved the political commentary of the day: Slashdot, Metafilter, BoingBoing and Little Green Footballs. Not even DailyKos was relevant when I started reading (1999) and dwelling (2001) in the blogosphere.

Yet what's more interesting to me is how Charles has kept LGF close to his heart and his identity and to me that' what's so invaluable about this blog post. His blog has been a very personal journey. It wasn't meant to be a business plan. It wasn't meant to be his product. Little Green Footballs is Charles Johnson.

The blog has changed because he has changed and that's an amazing thing to own up to: That you weren't the "complete" person people thought you'd be. That the space in which you post a bit of your soul is not just a product or a brand. It is you.

Yet the bottom line is simple: Owning up to growing up after a certain age or status is not what most people expect or even want you to do. The fact Charles has done so and rather publicly is truly remarkable and fascinating.

Good job Chuck and welcome back.

30 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:16:57am

Pam's House Blend.

It's up to nearly 600 comments at the time of this post, and I hate to break it to Mr. Johnson, but the Goldwater conservatives and moderates have been put six feet under by the theocrats and know-nothings. I don't know how you can wrest the GOP back from the crazies. I am under no illusion that Charles Johnson is now progressive or agrees with the Obama admin on policy (heaven knows we have enough beefs with the admin); I actually feel for him.

These low-brow conservatives that coo over Palin, Glenn Beck and Rush are sheep -- no critical thinking whatsoever, in denial about how they are shilling for policies that hurt them, instead they focus on blaming on the "other" -- that doesn't look like them, worship like them, believe in reproductive freedom or isn't heterosexual. With fumes that weak, how can that movement sustain itself? It's an incredible feat.

31 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:20:54am

Glad to see that rumours of Edmund Standing's withdrawal from the blogosphere were greatly exaggerated:

Criminals and extremist ideology

Quote:

GUN-toting members of a new Birmingham teenage gang are boasting about becoming suicide bombers, it was claimed last night.

(snip)

Lee Barnes, BNP Legal Director, comments on this article: ‘Screw multi-culturalism’.

Of course, this actually has nothing to do with ‘multiculturalism’ and everything to do with young social deviants channeling their machismo and criminality in a supposedly ‘ideological’ direction and getting kicks from making shocking statements.

Criminals have always been attracted to extremist movements, because they appeal to their anti-social attitutes. The BNP is no exception.

Full article:

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

32 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:20:59am

re: #25 Fenway_Nation

No, they just fold when they're ahead. Makes no sense to me.

33 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:23:32am

re: #29 iceweasel

re: #30 iceweasel

Oh yay! Does this mean we can sit with the cool kids at the lunch table now?

34 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:24:50am

re: #16 checked08

Anyone hear about "The Family", that odd religious outfit that councils adulterous Republican politicians? Seems they've been pushing their bigotry in Uganda.


Link to the text of the bill
Caught a cold, took the day off from work. No stupid jokes to post tonight. Good night

Rick Warren is refusing to oppose it.

Rick Warren refuses to oppose Uganda’s “Kill Gays” bill

Warren has now found the one exception to his political involvement. And that exception is the proposed Ugandan “Kill Gays” bill. Unlike virtually anything else that flickers across his attention, this piece of legislation just doesn’t rise to the level of requiring his involvement. That would be “interfering in the political process of other nations.”

Or maybe Rick Warren just doesn’t find it unethical on the part of leadership in Uganda to execute HIV positive gay people, incarcerate the rest for life, ban any form of activism that might object, and jail those family, friends, or acquaintances who fail to report their gay loved ones to the government.

On Meet the Press this morning he spoke a good game of loving gay people (while fighting against their rights). But though he declared that his “role is to love everybody” (which presumably would include gay Ugandans), this love seems not to stretch quite enough to oppose their execution and life-long incarceration.

35 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:26:28am

re: #33 Fenway_Nation

re: #30 iceweasel

Oh yay! Does this mean we can sit with the cool kids at the lunch table now?

It means LGF's traffic will go up.
Which means the page impressions go up.
Which means that Charles' advertising rates can go up too, if he wants to raise them.
It also means more people reading LGF, and probably linking LGF and sending even more traffic.

Got a problem with any of that?

36 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:29:07am

re: #26 iceweasel

What'd I say downstairs?

That post is already top story on memeorandum. Wheee!

What is the significance of this "memeorandum" of which you speak?

37 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:33:13am

re: #35 iceweasel

Depends on where that traffic is coming from. If more Koslings and thinkprogress types come here and decide to make themselves at home, then Charles might as well delete my account.

38 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:34:45am

re: #37 Fenway_Nation

Why?

39 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:35:18am

re: #37 Fenway_Nation

Remain calm grasshopper. Opposing views are part of the game.

40 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:35:35am

re: #36 Bagua

What is the significance of this "memeorandum" of which you speak?

It's a snapshot of the blogosphere, ranked according to the most talked about stories and provides links to where they are being discussed. Very nifty site for seeing what is going on.

41 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:37:18am

re: #40 Jimmah

Do they have a partisan bias? How big is their following?

42 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:37:19am

re: #37 Fenway_Nation

Depends on where that traffic is coming from. If more Koslings and thinkprogress types come here and decide to make themselves at home, then Charles might as well delete my account.

What an odd statement.

43 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:38:43am

re: #41 Bagua

Do they have a partisan bias? How big is their following?

No partisan bias or indeed comment- the list is generated purely by activity in the blogosphere.

44 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:41:26am

re: #41 Bagua

Do they have a partisan bias? How big is their following?

No, they're a snapshot of the political web. What's being talked about and by who, and how much. Insanely useful for anyone who is a political blogger-- I check it several times a day. It'll rank all the stories being talked about and link everyone talking about them. I use it precisely because it isnt partisan and I get exposed to so many blogs and opposing viewpoints-- For example, say something like the Fort Hood shootings, you can pull up the NYT and WaPo coverage, but also a selection of liberal blogs, rightwing blogs, centrist blogs-- and it will link the tiny blogs you've never heard of as well as the big ones like here.

Essential for any politics junkie, and especially for any blogger-- best way to get a broad spectrum of opinion and exposure to many, many blogs (and news sources).

45 AK-47%  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:41:47am

re: #28 Walter L. Newton

So, let's not take note of Jefferson's political philosophy, nor should we try to put it in effect, nor should we glean anything from it. Why waste our time, since it's only an ideal, not worth our time.

So Ralphie, what's the alternative?

We should most certainly take note of Jefferson's ideal and try to apply it to the greatest possible extent, but at the same time just have a better idea of what constitutes "to govern least".

And not try, as Grover Norquist quipped, to "reduce the government to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub"

If we want an example of that, just look at Iraq or Afghanistan, those governments would drown in a teacup without US military support.

Government is there to administer those tasks that cannot be left to the free market: justice, regulating commerce, education, defense, and managing natural resources.

That is, unfortunately no small task and even the smallest possible government is going to be larger than many people would like.

And in my opinion, the health of a nation's workforce is a natural resource, and I have no problem with the government plaing a role in managing its care.

46 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:42:48am

re: #43 Jimmah

Interesting, sort of a look into the collective consciousness of the nascent blogosphere.

I shall check it out.

47 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:43:44am

re: #38 freetoken


Went through this with Conservative Moonbat awhile back. If he...(and then ultimately, the majority of the posters here) would see nothing wrong with Markos' 'Screw Them' screed regarding the contractors who were murdered, torched, mutilated and hung from a bridge in Fallujah...if they would try and rationalize it and make excuces for it, then there's no point in further discussion. And there's no point in me sticking around as the token conservative or 'court jester'.

Don't get me wrong- I appreciate Kos' honesty on the subject, but I want nothing to do with either him or people who think to this day that he was 100% in the right.

48 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:47:12am

re: #47 Fenway_Nation

Bit too dramatic, you are hardly the 'token conservative' (though I may well fit as the 'court jester')

Rejection of the worst of the Right does not imply embrace of the worst of the Left.

49 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:47:16am

re: #46 Bagua

Interesting, sort of a look into the collective consciousness of the nascent blogosphere.

I shall check it out.

Yes, that's exactly what it is. I usually just pick the topics I'm interested in, (there are too many on any given day, or at any given moment to keep up on all) and then a selection of maybe 5 or 6 articles/posts on them from across the spectrum. Great way to get into the political blogosphere as a whole. Highly recommend. Charles links them on the sidebar.

50 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:48:52am

re: #48 Bagua

Bit too dramatic, you are hardly the 'token conservative' (though I may well fit as the 'court jester')

Rejection of the worst of the Right does not imply embrace of the worst of the Left.

Similarly, you can't assume that every poster or diarist on dKos endorses that comment of kos's. Not by a long shot.

51 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:53:15am

re: #49 iceweasel

Great, just what I needed, another fascinating website... another reason why I shall get no work done at all while this pesky internet lives on.

Have you no thought of my need to earn bread?

52 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:54:41am

re: #51 Bagua

Great, just what I needed, another fascinating website... another reason why I shall get no work done at all while this pesky internet lives on.

Have you no thought of my need to earn bread?

Start making it yourself! jimmah and I just started making our own. :)
bye for now-- have a good day, friendly neighbourhood Bagua!

53 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:55:26am

re: #39 Bagua

Remain calm grasshopper. Opposing views are part of the game.

Really... I've been reading up a lot on CRU versus the FOIA requests that they have received over the last 5-6 years, and they don't seem to think so.

I'm also looking over the HadCRUT3 dataset. I can see why some people are concerned about the validity of this data. This data is temperature readings, since 1850, in 5 degree by 5 degree grids across most of the planet. But, with in each of those grids, the source of the actual reading (ie: a meteorological station, a individual etc) has/had changed over the years. So, there appears to be no way to validate the actual physical source of the data with in that 5 degree by 5 degree grid. That's a lot of area in a grid, and temperature can fluctuate inside that grid, depending on the actual pinpoint location and the collection method. CRU says they have no way to reference those actual locations in the grid.

I find that to be possibly a problem.

I have the dataset. My intentions, after studying the dataset and gathering as much info as I can, I am thinking of trying to develop my own program code that would query the data in the same way CRU has queried the data and developed their subsets of the data.

But to do that, I am going to have to beef up on exactly what CRU has been doing with this data, what they have been pulling from this data, and any caveats I need to know.

In the least, I will have a good understanding of CRU's side of the story and what this data means to them.

Up to this point, a lot of the science, at least reading about it, has been beyond me. But when you start talking hard data, programs and analyzing datasets, well, that's what I have been doing for 25 years,

Now this gets interesting.

54 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:55:37am

re: #50 iceweasel

Similarly, you can't assume that every poster or diarist on dKos endorses that comment of kos's. Not by a long shot.

I've seen Instapundit defend Markos once. I won't defend Markos for some of those comments but it's important to remember that he's still a kid. 7 years ago he was just beyond 31 years old and I remember when

55 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:56:21am

Fenway...is there any way to contact you off the blog? I'm thinking of making a move to New England for school/life, and I trust you more than most anyone else here in assisting me with a move like that.

56 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:56:40am

re: #54 Gus 802

Oops. Half post. I was just going to say that Markos was immature and blah blah blah.

57 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:56:56am

Night folks :)

58 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:58:42am

re: #52 iceweasel

Start making it yourself! jimmah and I just started making our own. :)
bye for now-- have a good day, friendly neighbourhood Bagua!

I may well be reduced to baking my own bread should I not find enough hours in the week to fleece the sheep as I do.

voyez-vous plus tard

59 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:59:14am

re: #48 Bagua


Rejection of the worst of the Right does not imply embrace of the worst of the Left.

But who ultimately gets to define that? Is it static, or is there some sort of sliding scale? I mean...back in 2007, the word narccisist meant...well...narccisist. Now, tonight, thanks to the resident progressives, we learn that it's really a 'code-word' for uppity. And the progressives have been doing this to death with words like 'Patriotic' and 'wealthy'.

Where's the diversity in thought and opinion if people like that get to continually decide what is and sin't acceptable?

60 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:00:23am

re: #47 Fenway_Nation

re: #48 Bagua

Agree with both of you. I'm not interested in yet another ideological echo chamber, which is what most of the blogosphere has become and one of the reasons I'm comfortable here. And I've never thought of this blog as being either right or left. Nor do I take Charles' post downstairs to be an embrace of one side over the other.

It's the rejection of mindless groupthink (apparently much desired by some here) that makes this blog enjoyable. I doubt that will change.

61 son of a son  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:02:33am

Breaking News: CRU just found the lost data!

Sorry guys, only kidding...

62 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:03:53am

re: #59 Fenway_Nation

But who ultimately gets to define that? Is it static, or is there some sort of sliding scale? I mean...back in 2007, the word narccisist meant...well...narccisist. Now, tonight, thanks to the resident progressives, we learn that it's really a 'code-word' for uppity. And the progressives have been doing this to death with words like 'Patriotic' and 'wealthy'.

Where's the diversity in thought and opinion if people like that get to continually decide what is and sin't acceptable?


See my note downstairs on this topic. "Dogwhistle" is the new "fascist".

63 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:05:51am

re: #59 Fenway_Nation

I think you're just emotionally hot tonight. I would vote for Micky Mouse over Obama, but I agree with the 'uppity' observation. It's a valid observation.

And we both know that nobody decides for anybody else on this forum.

64 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:05:52am

re: #55 TheMatrix31

Heh...most of New England is bluer than California and even colder to boot, so you'd bascially be out of the frying pan and into the fire in terms of being surrounded by liberals.

Same disclosure applies to the institutes of higher learning- I guess it all depends on what you want to study and earn your degree in. That said, Boston itself if a very offbeat and interesting (AND expensive) place to visit, study and work. I'm biased, but Fenway Park is a must-see on any sports fans' 'to-do' list...

You can get ahold of me via my still-waiting-for-me-to-sugarcoat-tonights-turd -in-the-punchbowl-that-was -New England's-performance blog. Click on my name as it is of the azure persuasion.

65 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:06:15am

re: #61 son of a son

Breaking News: CRU just found the lost data!

Sorry guys, only kidding...

No data is missing, what is missing, or at least what CRU says they cannot reproduce is the actual physical location of the reporting entity with in the 5 degree by 5 degree grid of the planet.

See my re: #53 Walter L. Newton

66 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:07:45am

re: #64 Fenway_Nation

Cool, maybe I'll shoot ya a post over there. I don't mind the cold--thats one of the reasons why I want to leave here, because 80 degrees on November 30 is unacceptable.

67 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:08:07am

re: #60 SixDegrees

Too bad that one troll had such a kick-ass screen name- speaktruthtogroupthink was it?

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:09:05am

re: #50 iceweasel

If Charles said something like that he would never see me again, from that moment forward.

69 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:10:22am

re: #67 Fenway_Nation

Too bad that one troll had such a kick-ass screen name- speaktruthtogroupthink was it?

I must have missed that one. I noticed a number of deletions.

70 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:10:41am

re: #66 TheMatrix31

Cool, maybe I'll shoot ya a post over there. I don't mind the cold--thats one of the reasons why I want to leave here, because 80 degrees on November 30 is unacceptable.


Keep in mind I wasn't born and raised in Boston. My perspective is from a kid who grew up in the hilltowns in the western part of the state and Boston was teH Big Citah where we'd go every now and then to catch a Sox game, go to some museums, see some tall ships or some kind of grade-school field trip.

71 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:11:49am

re: #70 Fenway_Nation

Even better, haha.

72 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:14:26am

re: #53 Walter L. Newton

Really... I've been reading up a lot on CRU versus the FOIA requests that they have received over the last 5-6 years, and they don't seem to think so.

[...]

Yep, the undeniable fact on the face of it. CRU has scored an own goal that will be difficult to recover from.

The basic physics of what is observable and demonstrable remain, such as the properties of CO2 in a closed system, etc. But the necessary data to call an emergency appears to have flown the coup.

If nothing else, the IPCC AR4 will need scrapping as will a host of papers that have sourced the CRU work, or at minimum will have to be placed in limbo while the work is verified.

73 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:16:30am

re: #71 TheMatrix31

Similarly- depending on how flexible you might be, you could always try smaller state universities like New Hampshire or Maine. It would put you further away from The Hub of Hockey and Every Other Sport, but the cost of living and tuition would probably be lower.

/NH is probably New England's 'reddest' state as it stands

74 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:18:50am

re: #73 Fenway_Nation

I just want out of California once I go to grad school. You know, for business. Then I'll get to fork over most of the money I earn to the government to pay for the insane debt being created! Yay.

75 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:20:20am

re: #62 SixDegrees

Noted.

I think I already updinged you downstairs on that one.

76 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:21:55am

re: #75 Fenway_Nation

Downstairs? What is that, code word for AUSTRALIANS?!

/

77 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:22:33am

re: #72 Bagua

Yep, the undeniable fact on the face of it. CRU has scored an own goal that will be difficult to recover from.

The basic physics of what is observable and demonstrable remain, such as the properties of CO2 in a closed system, etc. But the necessary data to call an emergency appears to have flown the coup.

If nothing else, the IPCC AR4 will need scrapping as will a host of papers that have sourced the CRU work, or at minimum will have to be placed in limbo while the work is verified.

And I have been reading the document file from a CRU programmer named "Harry," and this file contains notes of his work trying to recreate results from different CRU data.

I am a programmer, I can understand another's programmers notes on what he's working on.

It seems that CRU's whole data management, change control, version control and programing methods is a mishmash of techniques and processes, with no standards.

That's why scientist should not be trying to data the work of programmers and information technology regimens. When I worked at the National Renewable Energy Lab, that was part of my job, to help the scientist follow standards on how data is collected, stored, controlled, verified etc. All that stuff that it is evident that CRU was NOT DOING.

This is not a pro or anti AGW stance on my part, I am only talking about data collection and data analysts methods, and so far I see a big problem on how it has been handled at CRU.

78 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:24:02am

re: #74 TheMatrix31

Go to trade school and get a Union job so that way you can join the Teamsters or Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers or Transportation Communication Workers so that not only will a bit of your monthly paycheck go towards re-electing dem politicians or lining the pockets of mobsters, but your union president can accomodate none other than Kos himself for a punch of photo-ops where the shitty little ratfuck can pretend he's a real hard workin' truck drivin' blue collar American hero!

79 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:24:47am

re: #78 Fenway_Nation

YAY! All-American DREAM!

80 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:25:17am

re: #76 TheMatrix31

Downstairs? What is that, code word for AUSTRALIANS?!

/

Damn koalabacks.

81 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:28:01am

re: #80 Fenway_Nation

Koalas?! I hope that's not code for being uppity, since those animals HAPPEN to perch themselves high UP in trees and swing around!

Tsk tsk tsk

///holy crap, Wiki says that female Koalas have two vaginas.

82 son of a son  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:28:13am

May be the guys from Timesonline don´t get it right? Who knows. But have look on your own: [Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

83 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:29:35am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

[...]

This is not a pro or anti AGW stance on my part, I am only talking about data collection and data analysts methods, and so far I see a big problem on how it has been handled at CRU.

I don't think the pro or anti is even relevant. Beliefs and opinions are secondary to cold science which is based upon data and accuracy. The relevant question is quite clear, is the information that has emanated from the CRU Hockey Team valid? Can it be verified? If not, it is not even wrong, it is useless.

It is too early to have a firm opinion either way, but if appearances prove accurate then it appears that the CRU Hockey Team are wearing Green Helmets.

84 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:30:48am

re: #81 TheMatrix31

Koalas?! I hope that's not code for being uppity, since those animals HAPPEN to perch themselves high UP in trees and swing around!

Tsk tsk tsk

///holy crap, Wiki says that female Koalas have two vaginas.

So, it's more like a koalawhistle?

Two? Now, that's something to think about...

85 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:31:04am

Let's see...in another window I was alternating between photos of Bettie Paige and some restored steam locotives.

But wait...what do those things have in common? Their heyday was in the 1950s. You know what else was around in the 1950s? Jim Crow!

So by looking at nostalgic stuff like Lima-Hamilton steam engines and a raven-haired pin-up from that deacade, I'm clearly nostalgic for the days of Jim Crow and segregated lunch counters!

//

Too convoluted? Too bad!

86 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:32:37am

re: #82 son of a son

May be the guys from Timesonline don´t get it right? Who knows. But have look on your own: [Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

Who are you talking to or replying to? Why don't you use the quote/reply buttons, otherwise you are talking to yourself. It makes it much easier for us to understand what you are replying to, who you are replying to and how or who needs to respond to you.

Otherwise you will just be ignored.

87 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:34:05am

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

He appears to be trolling, not replying.

88 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:34:46am

re: #85 Fenway_Nation

Thought you said Linda Hamilton.

89 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:36:06am

re: #81 TheMatrix31

Wiki says lots of things.

Steve: Now the world will never know the truth.
Stan: If only there was a place where you could make any outrageous claim you want with absolutely no proof, and millions of people would accept it as fact.
Steve: That's it!
[cutaway to Steve writing a Wikipedia article on "The Truth About Peanut Butter"]

-American Dad, Black Mystery Month

90 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:38:40am

re: #88 TheMatrix31

She'd kick my ass...

But hey- speaking of those damn koalabacks, be sure to check out my blog.

91 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:39:41am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

I come from a similar background - software engineering - and this has been my criticism, as well. It's also quite unusual for researchers to treat their data in such a cavalier fashion. Not completely unheard of, but not all that common.

The problem is the questions this raises about reproducibility. It isn't clear to me whether the CRU results can be reliably reproduced, either by independent researchers or by the CRU researchers themselves. That leaves their results in an unpleasant limbo: they're probably correct, but there may be no way to verify them.

And as we're seeing, such carelessness has consequences. Given the politically charged nature of this field, it's hard to understand why more care wasn't taken to preserve all data, or to be more forthcoming about potential problems from the beginning.

92 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:40:05am

EVENING FACSITS!

/ :O

93 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:40:15am

re: #90 Fenway_Nation

Yum.

94 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:41:28am

re: #90 Fenway_Nation

She'd kick my ass...

But hey- speaking of those damn koalabacks, be sure to check out my blog.

What've you got against Australian immigrants?

/ q;

95 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:44:04am

re: #90 Fenway_Nation

She'd kick my ass...

But hey- speaking of those damn koalabacks, be sure to check out my blog.

Uh...what? My cerebrum just shut down; it isn't needed at the moment...

96 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:44:28am

re: #83 Bagua

I don't think the pro or anti is even relevant. Beliefs and opinions are secondary to cold science which is based upon data and accuracy. The relevant question is quite clear, is the information that has emanated from the CRU Hockey Team valid? Can it be verified? If not, it is not even wrong, it is useless.

It is too early to have a firm opinion either way, but if appearances prove accurate then it appears that the CRU Hockey Team are wearing Green Helmets.

I don't understand your sports references. But you are right in general about cold science, and in reference to what I am looking at, hard data. If I understand how they compiled the hadcrut3 dataset, then their method of collecting that data is bogus.

For any given grid on the planet, you can have had multiple locations with in that grid supplying temperature data to that grid since 1850, month after month, and CRU cannot tell anyone (or refuse to tell anyone) the actual physical location of each one of those temperature readings in that grid since 1850. There are also months where there is no temperature data for that grid. And on top of all that, for any given grid, CRU claims that the source of the data could have come from three agencies, and then, there is a total of 2 percent over all data reading totally missing from the dataset.

That is not a valid dataset to begin with. It doesn't amtter what programs they have developed to query the data, it doesn't matter what results they THINK they have gotten from that dataset. It appear to me that the raw dataset itself is flawed to begin with.

Like I say, I am going through the dataset and all the information available about it creation, history, caveats etc. There's a good amount of study to be done here, but fist look, doesn't look good.

97 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:46:35am

re: #93 TheMatrix31

re: #94 laZardo

I wouldn't kick them out of my bed for eating eucalyptis leaves.

Kinda funny story- I got a parking ticket a few years back and I was going on and on about that dirty rotten so-and-so meter maid in front of an Aussie classmate.

The first thing he asked me was 'Oy-Was she wearing a bikini?'. We all looked at him like 'What the fuck kind of stupid question was that?' blissfully unaware of the Surfers Paradise gimmick tradition of 'Meter Maids'...and how the soulless and no doubt bitter and lonely spinsters responsible for parking enforcement down there are actually called something like 'traffic wardens'.

98 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:48:03am

re: #97 Fenway_Nation

Well, you know what warden is a code word for...RIGHT?

/

99 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:48:15am
100 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:49:11am

re: #98 TheMatrix31

I lost track...is there like a boolean chart for this shit somewhere?

101 son of a son  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:49:48am

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

You are right; sorry about that.

102 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:50:55am

re: #98 TheMatrix31

Well, you know what warden is a code word for...RIGHT?

/

It's a code word for the best damn cartoon to have its way with my TV's RGB emitters in years and then leave it sniveling in bed while it smokes a drag.

103 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:53:17am

re: #100 Fenway_Nation

Maybe there should be a flow chart somewhere.

104 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:54:39am

re: #91 SixDegrees

[...] they're probably correct, but there may be no way to verify them.
[...]

Probably correct but unverifiable will relegate them to the dustbin of history. Science is science, not politics.

If the data selection and adjustments have not been fully documented, then it is not even wrong, it cannot be falsified. End of game. Anything that is based upon that data will be equally worthless.

Should it be reconstructed with a similar result, it will still want discarding for the same reasons.

re: #96 Walter L. Newton

The sports reference is to Mann's famous Hockey Stick, under challenge they have countered that they have a whole Hockey Team. Now that team looks a bit dodgy. The Green Helmet reference is to the Kana media manipulation and fraud during the last Lebanon War. Should the "hockey team" turn out to be wearing Green Helmets, that means they engaged in media manipulation and propaganda to further their agenda.

Mind my caveat that it is too early to have a definitive opinion. I'm happy to give the CRU crew time to respond, release their data and have it subjected to proper scientific scrutiny. If it holds up, then it's much ado nothing.

But if I were to want to make a wager at this point, it wouldn't favour the Hockey Team.

105 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:57:00am

re: #95 SixDegrees

What I actually haven't been able to find on the internet is the actual fortran source code that some people have been talking about. A lot of people on different blogs are showing snippets of some code, but I can't find an archive of ALL the source code of the CRU programs.

Those programs were part of the hacked documents, along with the emails and other documents.

I would love to see the actual source code, since I know fortran (yea, I've been programming since we had those wooden frame things with the little beads on it) and I would like to audit the code.

It would seem to me that if you had the code, a compiler and the datasets that the code uses, you should be able to run the models the same way CRU has been.

From what I gather, one part of the controversy is that CRU has refused to release code and certain data to other scientist so they could try to replicate the results.

106 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:58:20am

Why was my 99 deleted?

107 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:01:04am

re: #106 Walter L. Newton

Was there something quoted that shouldn't have been?

108 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:02:07am

re: #107 Fenway_Nation

Was there something quoted that shouldn't have been?

I have only been quoting Bagua and Six Degrees.

109 son of a son  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:02:20am

re: #104 Bagua

According to timesonline CRU scientist admitted "throwing away much of the raw temperature data": [Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

110 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:02:56am

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

I have only been quoting Bagua and Six Degrees.

Was there a link to the stolen data? I believe the position is not to link to it because of its provenance.

111 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:05:27am

re: #104 Bagua

[snip]

Mind my caveat that it is too early to have a definitive opinion. I'm happy to give the CRU crew time to respond, release their data and have it subjected to proper scientific scrutiny. If it holds up, then it's much ado nothing.

But if I were to want to make a wager at this point, it wouldn't favour the Hockey Team.

And that's why I have been saying I have a lot more study to do on this data. But if CRU was a client of mine who had hired me to validate their data collection methods and the validity of the data, my "first look" initial reaction to it would be "you may have some problems."

112 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:06:29am

re: #110 Bagua

Was there a link to the stolen data? I believe the position is not to link to it because of its provenance.

Yes there was, that was probably what happened. I didn't know there was a problem with that. That's ok with me, I can discuss it without linking to any of the hacked data. And only a fool couldn't find it if they wanted it.

113 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:06:31am

re: #109 son of a son

I believe you linked to that already upthread. Personally I'm not all that keen on anything some media hack has to say. Right now they are just chasing a hot story and trying to zero in on simplistic memes as they always do.

114 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:10:05am

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

Walter, if you want meteorological data then go to the actual repository:
[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]

115 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:12:08am

re: #113 Bagua

I believe you linked to that already upthread. Personally I'm not all that keen on anything some media hack has to say. Right now they are just chasing a hot story and trying to zero in on simplistic memes as they always do.

Well, there's not doubt that a lot of media and pundits have run with the simple sensationalistic side of this story. But at the same time, it was those stories that got me interested in finding out more about the data itself, which I find much more sensational than anything in those simplistic memes.

And the bottom line is, if a grunt programmer like myself can understand this data, it's going to really be interesting when the professionals who have the time, resources and clout start reporting on all the finer details of all this.

116 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:15:17am

re: #114 freetoken

Walter, if you want meteorological data then go to the actual repository:
[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]

I have the real data. And there is not just ONE source that was used to compile hadcrut3. Data was combined from NCAR, GHCN, NMS, NOAA and some misc sources.

117 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:18:50am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

The MSM has its value, and they are good at highlighting an issue. But so often they fail to truly understand and fairly represent what they are writing about.

Assuming everything is Kosher - and those at CRU deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point - then there will be no problem verifying the data and the results. It will just take a bit of time and correct procedures. Should have been done long ago.

And the raw data is only part of the picture, it is how that data was adjusted and used. Presumably they did not discard those notes as well? If not, then it should prove no problem to verify everything.

118 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:23:35am

re: #117 Bagua

The MSM has its value, and they are good at highlighting an issue. But so often they fail to truly understand and fairly represent what they are writing about.

Assuming everything is Kosher - and those at CRU deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point - then there will be no problem verifying the data and the results. It will just take a bit of time and correct procedures. Should have been done long ago.

And the raw data is only part of the picture, it is how that data was adjusted and used. Presumably they did not discard those notes as well? If not, then it should prove no problem to verify everything.

Who is going to hold their feet to the fire? I really ask that with no idea of the answer. It appears that there has actually been peer reviewed scientist that have been locked out of the process, at least as far as CRU is concerned, so, how tight does CRU hold the lid on other valid research?

119 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:26:24am

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

It appears that there has actually been peer reviewed scientist that have been locked out of the process, at least as far as CRU is concerned, so, how tight does CRU hold the lid on other valid research?

Who would that be? And what process are they "locked out" of?

120 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:31:02am
121 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:33:19am

re: #5 cliffster

Cures for HIV: zero
Lifespan of person diagnosed with HIV: ??

People think we've fixed HIV, and people with HIV will live a good long life just like the rest of us. Truth is, no one knows how long one will live. The "treatments" have not been around long enough to say. And a lot of "treatments" wreck havoc on a person's day-to-day life in ways most people have no idea.

I knew a guy diagnosed with AIDS when it was still called GRID. And he lived to his mid-50s, died a couple years ago. Lived what I'd consider a pretty healthy life, with some compromises because of the meds, but the treatments didn't ruin him. He was very positive right up until the end.

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:34:06am

re: #97 Fenway_Nation

They're also called traffic wardens in Great Britain. All us good Top Gear fans know that. 8-)

123 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:36:34am
124 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:38:54am

re: #119 freetoken

Who would that be? And what process are they "locked out" of?

Well, since the last comment on this thread that I linked to a document from the hacked set of documents and emails was deleted, I suspect that Charles would prefer that I don't link to any of those sources, which I will of course honor.

So, for an answer, you will have to research the CRU emails yourself, I guess, because that is where my answer is.

125 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:41:00am
126 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:41:05am

re: #124 Walter L. Newton

Now you're confusing me. You claimed that a "peer reviewed scientist" was "locked" out of a process. Certainly I don't expect you to link to something that is non-grata here... but still... just a name and a description of the "process"?

127 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:42:01am

re: #122 WindUpBird

They're also called traffic wardens in Great Britain. All us good Top Gear fans know that. 8-)

/reminds himself to get Episode 3 of the new season

128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:44:00am

Someone tried to post their phone number again...

129 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:44:43am

re: #126 freetoken

Now you're confusing me. You claimed that a "peer reviewed scientist" was "locked" out of a process. Certainly I don't expect you to link to something that is non-grata here... but still... just a name and a description of the "process"?

Sorry, not going to take the bait. Like I said above, it appears that Charles considers the hacked items from CRU "non-grata" as you call it, and I'm fine with that. There is not way I can describe what I am talking about, it's all in an email from a CRU scientist in regards to peer-reviewed information. If you want to know exactly what I am talking about, I guess you'll have to find it yourself.

What else can I do.

130 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:45:22am

re: #128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

867-5309...damn you Tommy Two Tone!

Stewie- Family Guy

131 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:45:31am

re: #124 Walter L. Newton

There was also a link provided last night - not sure if you posted it, Walter - to a site detailing on person's attempts to obtain information about the datasets used by CRU from various people at CRU, from the director to the individual researchers. Reading through the emails, it does appear that CRU was less than forthcoming not only about releasing data it had under it's control, but about releasing information that would have allowed their dataset to be reconstructed from the external sources it was drawn from.

It's downstairs somewhere.

132 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:50:32am

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

Who is going to hold their feet to the fire? I really ask that with no idea of the answer. It appears that there has actually been peer reviewed scientist that have been locked out of the process, at least as far as CRU is concerned, so, how tight does CRU hold the lid on other valid research?

At this point another peer review of the CRU papers will mean exactly nothing to me. I don't like what I've seen about the peer reveiw process applied to Climate Science and it has inherent limitations I find unacceptable for such critical work.

I require their temperature constructions to be independently repeated in an open and verifiable manner, adhering to proper scientific procedures. Until they everything to do with "combating climate change" should be placed on hold except for research.

133 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:51:38am

re: #128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Someone tried to post their phone number again...

Did you lose it? Don't!

134 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:51:47am

re: #129 Walter L. Newton

I can't wait until someone I know and respect does all the hard work and tells me what to think of all this...

135 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:52:00am

re: #131 SixDegrees

There was also a link provided last night - not sure if you posted it, Walter - to a site detailing on person's attempts to obtain information about the datasets used by CRU from various people at CRU, from the director to the individual researchers. Reading through the emails, it does appear that CRU was less than forthcoming not only about releasing data it had under it's control, but about releasing information that would have allowed their dataset to be reconstructed from the external sources it was drawn from.

It's downstairs somewhere.

Yep, that's what appears to have been happening. I know the link. Everything that we have been discussing is available to anyone who does a few simple google searches.

136 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:52:59am

re: #132 Bagua

Until they then everything to do with "combating climate change" should be placed on hold except for research.

137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:53:23am

re: #133 laZardo

Ricky?!

138 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:53:37am

re: #134 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I can't wait until someone I know and respect does all the hard work and tells me what to think of all this...

Always the spectator... :)

139 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:53:57am

re: #136 Bagua

I knew what you were saying.

140 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:54:29am

They got the cop killer in WA. Can't find a story yet tho, just headlines

141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:54:31am

re: #138 Walter L. Newton

I never promised you a rose garden...

142 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:54:41am

re: #138 Walter L. Newton

Always the spectator... :)

It explains why we are thin and FBV is so well fed.

143 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:56:50am

re: #132 Bagua

At this point another peer review of the CRU papers will mean exactly nothing to me. I don't like what I've seen about the peer reveiw process applied to Climate Science and it has inherent limitations I find unacceptable for such critical work.

I require their temperature constructions to be independently repeated in an open and verifiable manner, adhering to proper scientific procedures. Until they everything to do with "combating climate change" should be placed on hold except for research.

Interesting enough, there are a lot of people out there who think this is all a tempest in a teapot and there is nothing wrong with the way CRU has handled the whole issue of their data, even in light of all the recent evidence, of in the least, some sloppy procedures, methods and controls.

There's two sides to every story, unless there is only one side, huh?

144 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:00:22am

re: #141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I never promised you a rose garden...

The actual historical quote that Dr. Frieda Fromm-Reichman said to her patient (Joanne Greenberg) was "I never promised you a garden of roses."

The original title of the book, the title that Joanne wanted on her semi-fictional story was "A Little Maybe." It was her editor that suggested the title "I Never Promised You A Rose Garden." Really.

145 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:00:59am

re: #137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ricky?!

If he posted his number in English...

146 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:01:55am

re: #140 RogueOne

They got the cop killer in WA. Can't find a story yet tho, just headlines

My radio said they got him as well. Just now. (Fox Radio) BRB.

147 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:02:23am

Seattle police are reporting that they shot and killed the Tacoma cop killer last night.

148 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:02:59am

re: #146 Cannadian Club Akbar

My radio said they got him as well. Just now. (Fox Radio) BRB.

You can't trust Fox :)

149 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:03:03am

re: #140 RogueOne

They got the cop killer in WA. Can't find a story yet tho, just headlines


[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

150 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:03:09am

re: #146 Cannadian Club Akbar

My radio said they got him as well. Just now. (Fox Radio) BRB.

Same here. Local radio first, there's a "breaking news" tag on foxnews but no story.

bbl

151 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:03:32am

as mentioned by Rogue One- post #140- sorry R1- didn't see your post

152 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:03:40am

re: #147 Capitalist Tool

Seattle police are reporting that they shot and killed the Tacoma cop killer last night.

Good...now nobody can grant him clemency.

/spit

153 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:04:12am

re: #152 Fenway_Nation

Good...now nobody can grant him clemency.

/spit

ain't that the truth

154 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:04:16am

bbiam

155 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:05:16am

re: #152 Fenway_Nation

re: #153 Capitalist Tool

Does that make Huckabee the new Dukakis?

/don't care what party you are, YOU DON'T FUCKING PARDON HARDENED CRIMINALS.

156 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:05:59am

re: #155 laZardo

Yep. Huckabee is the new Dukakis.
Wake up Fox!

157 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:07:10am

re: #132 Bagua

At this point another peer review of the CRU papers will mean exactly nothing to me. I don't like what I've seen about the peer reveiw process applied to Climate Science and it has inherent limitations I find unacceptable for such critical work.

I require their temperature constructions to be independently repeated in an open and verifiable manner, adhering to proper scientific procedures. Until they everything to do with "combating climate change" should be placed on hold except for research.

Peer review has it's limitations, but doesn't seem to have broken in this case. First, when a paper is submitted for publication it is reviewed for basic adherence to established scientific principles, based on the procedures presented in the paper. The actual data is assumed to have been collected or obtained as stated, and no investigation is done on this point; it's taken as a given. Once accepted, the paper is published for a wide audience of peers within the field. It's at this stage that someone may decide to attempt to replicate the research, although that's fairly rare unless what's reported falls well outside expectations.

Still, it happens. What Walter is currently doing is peer reviewing the data from within his own area of expertise. So the peer review process appears to be working just fine.

The problem at this point seems to be the inability to accurately reconstruct the original data that was used to derive the filtered data that CRU obtained it's published results from. This points to a problem with reproducibility - a hallmark of scientific process. It isn't clear at this point whether the original raw dataset can be reproduced by independent researchers, or even by CRU itself. This is a real problem, and it apparently will require CRU's help to resolve.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with the peer review process itself.

158 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:07:12am

No one gave a Dukakis about Huckabee anyway.

159 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:07:23am

re: #156 Capitalist Tool

Yep. Huckabee is the new Dukakis.
Wake up Fox!

Every Governor should have to listen to a quality storyteller tell the story of the 'Frog and the Scorpion" before each and every clemency hearing.

160 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:07:51am

re: #155 laZardo

How racist of you to point that out.

/Dukakis '88 Campaign

161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:08:36am

re: #160 Fenway_Nation

Is the new bad guy black or white?

162 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:10:03am

re: #147 Capitalist Tool

Seattle police are reporting that they shot and killed the Tacoma cop killer last night.

Good to hear. I was beginning to worry; the length of time since the original shooting made it possible for him to be pretty much anywhere in the country, or even out of it, by now.

163 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:11:23am

re: #157 SixDegrees

Peer review has it's limitations, but doesn't seem to have broken in this case. First, when a paper is submitted for publication it is reviewed for basic adherence to established scientific principles, based on the procedures presented in the paper. The actual data is assumed to have been collected or obtained as stated, and no investigation is done on this point; it's taken as a given. Once accepted, the paper is published for a wide audience of peers within the field. It's at this stage that someone may decide to attempt to replicate the research, although that's fairly rare unless what's reported falls well outside expectations.

Still, it happens. What Walter is currently doing is peer reviewing the data from within his own area of expertise. So the peer review process appears to be working just fine.

The problem at this point seems to be the inability to accurately reconstruct the original data that was used to derive the filtered data that CRU obtained it's published results from. This points to a problem with reproducibility - a hallmark of scientific process. It isn't clear at this point whether the original raw dataset can be reproduced by independent researchers, or even by CRU itself. This is a real problem, and it apparently will require CRU's help to resolve.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with the peer review process itself.

The only thing I can say to you on this, click on my name, go to my website and find my email and email me and we can take this issue off LGF. I think you would be very surprised on some things I could show you. There may be an issue with how CRU has handled peer-review and I can let you make your own decision on that.

If you have some throw-a-way email address you use, that would work, like gmail or something.

That's up to you.

164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:11:53am

re: #161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh. Black guy.

What is going on in this world? People's thinking caps seem to be melting.

165 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:12:34am

re: #161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


The new bad guy- Maurice Clemmons- is black, too.

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:13:24am

From FNC's website...

Maurice Clemmons, suspected of gunning down four cops in a Washington coffee shop, reportedly thought he was Jesus Christ and told authorities, 'I'll kill all you bitches.'

Isn't that in Second Corinthians?

167 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:13:31am

re: #164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh. Black guy.

What is going on in this world? People's thinking caps seem to be melting.

MELTIIING! OH, WHAT A WORLD WHAT A WORLD...

/hey, you can double the subscript tags. :D

168 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:14:05am

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LMFAO.

169 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:14:12am

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nah, that's in the Book of Armaments, in the O.G. Translation.

170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:14:57am

re: #169 laZardo

Right before where they explain the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, or after?

171 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:15:24am

Flounce downstairs citing #4.

172 SteveC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:15:35am

re: #164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh. Black guy.

What is going on in this world? People's thinking caps seem to be melting.

It's Brain Warming, I tell ya!

173 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:16:50am

re: #170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I heard one of the cops he murdered got a few shots off and might've hit Clemmons as he fled.

I'm hoping Clemmons' last few days were very painful...

174 SteveC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:17:25am

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

From FNC's website...

Isn't that in Second Corinthians?

2nd Opinions.

Not everyone has a copy of the Gospel of 2nd Opinions - it's about 3000 pages long and weighs 50 pounds. But you can find ANYTHING in there!

175 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:19:11am

re: #170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Probably after, whence they explained the details of Jesus' rampage through the 'den of hookers' that set up in his 'daddy's crib.'

176 SteveC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:21:04am

re: #175 laZardo

Probably after, whence they explained the details of Jesus' rampage through the 'den of hookers' that set up in his 'daddy's crib.'

A group of hookers is called a "den"?

Shows what I know. I always called a group of hookers "expensive".

177 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:21:07am

Charles never opened the door last night?

178 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:23:02am

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

After the previous thread, I could understand completely.

179 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:23:14am

Brb dinnar.

180 SteveC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:23:38am

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

Charles never opened the door last night?

Stinky had a migraine, couldn't report for duty.

181 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:30:19am

re: #163 Walter L. Newton

Thanks. I'll consider your offer, but at this point my concern is with whether or not the original raw data that HadCRUT3 was constructed from can ever be reassembled. Or, to be more succinct, if HadCRUT3 can be replicated from it's original sources. This sort of examination of original raw data is commonplace, but my hopes that such examination will be possible are fading. It sounds as though CRU itself is unable to undertake such a reconstruction.

I haven't seen any reason to reject CRU's conclusions so far, but if I were citing their research I'd feel compelled to put a little star next to the reference, leading to an explanation of the circumstances, i.e., probably valid, but cannot be reproduced.

182 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:32:20am

re: #157 SixDegrees

Let me take a rain check on reply as even robots require rest. My issue with the peer review goes beyond any hanky panky. I assume the peer review to have been honest.

My question is more what did they review and how. If all they did was check the citations and verify that scientific conventions were followed then that is something, but a matter of alleged import to the health of the planet and the survival of humans needs a higher standard, that of independently repeating all of the calculations.

183 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:37:49am

re: #181 SixDegrees

Thanks. I'll consider your offer, but at this point my concern is with whether or not the original raw data that HadCRUT3 was constructed from can ever be reassembled. Or, to be more succinct, if HadCRUT3 can be replicated from it's original sources. This sort of examination of original raw data is commonplace, but my hopes that such examination will be possible are fading. It sounds as though CRU itself is unable to undertake such a reconstruction.

I haven't seen any reason to reject CRU's conclusions so far, but if I were citing their research I'd feel compelled to put a little star next to the reference, leading to an explanation of the circumstances, i.e., probably valid, but cannot be reproduced.

My first look, I would say no. Hadcrut3 can't be reproduced unless CRU has something that everyone is now looking for, and that is the actual physical locations for each temperature reading with in each 5 degree by 5 degree gird, with the link to the source of that reading (IE: NCAR, GHCN, NMS, NOAA and some misc sources).

CRU says they can't connect the each data record to the actual physical location and the source anymore.

Why is that important, because hadcrut3 has been tweaked, modified and each data record is not necessarily the raw date record that it was in the beginning.

To currently reconstruct each raw reading, you need to know what was the source agency and the physical recording station with in the grid.

That is the issue.

They say they can't do that.

So, you have 52.2 mb of data (I have the file) with monthly temperature readings from 1850 onward and they cannot reproduce the relationship of temperature reading -> agency source -> physical recording station in the grid.

184 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:40:40am

re: #182 Bagua

Let me take a rain check on reply as even robots require rest. My issue with the peer review goes beyond any hanky panky. I assume the peer review to have been honest.

My question is more what did they review and how. If all they did was check the citations and verify that scientific conventions were followed then that is something, but a matter of alleged import to the health of the planet and the survival of humans needs a higher standard, that of independently repeating all of the calculations.

I would imagine that such a review would be forthcoming. I hope it will include a review of data management practices; a simple set of archiving protocols would have prevented this whole mess.

185 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:42:21am

Fox just flashed a story about a new iPhone app designed to help illegals across the border.

COOL!

/

186 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:44:07am
187 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:44:44am

re: #185 TheMatrix31

Fox just flashed a story about a new iPhone app designed to help illegals across the border.

COOL!

/

If they have an iPhone, they need to keep the job they already have.
/

188 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:44:49am

re: #183 Walter L. Newton

To put things in perspective, a 5 degree square is an area (very) roughly the size of Nevada, Ecuador or Italy.

Is it known whether a single station is used for each cell over the entire timespan?

189 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:45:45am

re: #187 Cannadian Club Akbar

Good thinking. I didn't even think of that.

///then again, to some, I'm not capable of thought anyway

190 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:45:45am

re: #186 laZardo

That app was soo~ last week.

Um, I see a need for that in my future.:)

191 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:48:28am

re: #188 SixDegrees

To put things in perspective, a 5 degree square is an area (very) roughly the size of Nevada, Ecuador or Italy.

Is it known whether a single station is used for each cell over the entire timespan?

No, that's the point. Since 1850, different physical locations depending on which agency they got the information from, and this changed over the years, and there are a lot of times they had not data and then there is about 2 percent data that they can't even account for.

And they can't tell you now which agency, which location for each entry.

192 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:53:21am

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

No, that's the point. Since 1850, different physical locations depending on which agency they got the information from, and this changed over the years, and there are a lot of times they had not data and then there is about 2 percent data that they can't even account for.

And they can't tell you now which agency, which location for each entry.

So the entry used for each cell at each particular time is based on a single reading?

193 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:55:52am

re: #192 SixDegrees

So the entry used for each cell at each particular time is based on a single reading?


Yes, a single reading from a single agency at a particular location. But over the years, they would substitute the agency and location if more than one was available, and the data better fit the model, and now, they can't tell you the agency and source for any particular data record.

That's what I am understanding from what I am reading. If I am wrong, someone correct me or help me out.

194 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:58:02am

Is Financial Times a balanced source for news and information?

195 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:59:59am

re: #193 Walter L. Newton

Yes, a single reading from a single agency at a particular location. But over the years, they would substitute the agency and location if more than one was available, and the data better fit the model, and now, they can't tell you the agency and source for any particular data record.

That's what I am understanding from what I am reading. If I am wrong, someone correct me or help me out.

Do they say anywhere why they didn't simply take an average of all readings within the grid, or perform some similar averaging? Or did that occur after initial data selection.

What you're telling me is causing me to have one of those "WTF?" moments.

196 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:02:23am

GN guys, take it easy.

197 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:03:03am

re: #194 Walter L. Newton

Is Financial Times a balanced source for news and information?

I've seen it compare to the WSJ.

198 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:04:40am

re: #195 SixDegrees

Do they say anywhere why they didn't simply take an average of all readings within the grid, or perform some similar averaging? Or did that occur after initial data selection.

What you're telling me is causing me to have one of those "WTF?" moments.

They have massaged and played with the data even after initial data selection. And they have been tweaking the data as more information has become available, but they didn't keep every version of the dataset as it evolved.

I'm really only at a "high level" understanding of all this right now, there is a lot more information, I have a lot bookmarked, I'm going over it little by little.

That's sort of why I was up all night, I started to read some stuff and I have been flipping back and forth between reading and posting over here.

Everything I have been relating is available on the web.

199 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:04:45am

re: #197 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've seen it compare to the WSJ.

Seems to be politically moderate. Known in Britain as left-leaning, they also publish a lot of Conservative columnists.

No idea on how accurate their actual reporting may be.

200 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:06:09am

re: #198 Walter L. Newton

Many thanks for taking on such a thankless task.

201 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:06:22am

re: #199 SixDegrees

Seems to be politically moderate. Known in Britain as left-leaning, they also publish a lot of Conservative columnists.

No idea on how accurate their actual reporting may be.

If the University of East Anglia had been sharing more of its data and the computer models and statistical simulations running that data, the email hack would have been much ado about nothing.

202 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:07:38am

re: #199 SixDegrees

Seems to be politically moderate. Known in Britain as left-leaning, they also publish a lot of Conservative columnists.

No idea on how accurate their actual reporting may be.

I think most here have a pretty good BS detector. Or we can just ask others here. Much knowledge available.

203 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:10:17am

*my thousandth comment*


204 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:12:21am

re: #203 wozzablog

*my thousandth comment*

*my thousanth cringe*
///

205 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:13:31am

re: #199 SixDegrees

it's a great old marque.

It falls pretty much in the European centre ground editorially - occasional outspoken piece from a little bit of a limb either side of the spectrum.

The reporting is second to none - and i trust it a helluva lot more than the WSJ who's editorial shift to that of the respectable NY Post seems to have infected some of the most basic reporting.

206 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:13:37am

re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar

My little brother owns a novelty bullshit button.

/wonder if Charles could link to that on his Amazon page.

207 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:13:41am

re: #204 Cannadian Club Akbar

*my thousanth cringe*
///

LOL

208 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:14:25am

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

If the University of East Anglia had been sharing more of its data and the computer models and statistical simulations running that data, the email hack would have been much ado about nothing.

A very good editorial, and one that mirrors what I've said from the beginning of this controversy: appearances matter, and giving the appearance of being arrogant or iconoclastic or manipulative, even if completely inaccurate, can have a profound effect on how you are perceived and how your work is received. The contents of the CRU emails, for example, may be merely the informal banter of people just acting like humans, but the reaction upon reading them that they might indicate bias or sloppiness is every bit as human.

209 Ericus58  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:15:00am

[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com...]

"Lakewood police shooting suspect shot dead by police in South Seattle early this morning"

A nice long dirt-nap for this killer.
Now to investigate those family mambers and friends of his that aided his eluding and supplied assistance.
Then, time to investigate how he was out on the streets amongst us.

210 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:15:44am

re: #206 laZardo

My little brother owns a novelty bullshit button.

/wonder if Charles could link to that on his Amazon page.

All Amazon links from LGF to Amazon will automatically be credited to Charles is someone purchases the item.

See how the URL posts when you put it on LGF "www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000L70MQO/littlegreenfo-20"

The "littlegreenfo-20" identifies the source of the link as LGF.

211 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:15:44am

re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think most here have a pretty good BS detector. Or we can just ask others here. Much knowledge available.

I don't see anything in the article Walter linked to that presents any problems. It's clearly labeled as opinion, and doesn't stray off into tinfoil hat territory.

212 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:15:46am

Gonna hang out with my little bro at the nearby 7-11. Cheers.

213 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:16:15am

re: #210 Walter L. Newton

All Amazon links from LGF to Amazon will automatically be credited to Charles is someone purchases the item.

See how the URL posts when you put it on LGF "www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000L70MQO/littl egreenfo-20"

The "littlegreenfo-20" identifies the source of the link as LGF.

I see whut they did thar. Greenheart'd for reference.

214 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:17:31am

re: #213 laZardo

I see whut they did thar. Greenheart'd for reference.

What?

215 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:21:20am

NPR just did a hatchet job on Pres. Bush using the excuse of BHO's self-aggrandizing speech at West Point tonight as a pretense.

216 Timmeh  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:21:23am

Shine On You Crazy Diamond - Live

217 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:24:07am

re: #215 MandyManners

NPR just did a hatchet job on Pres. Bush using the excuse of BHO's self-aggrandizing speech at West Point tonight as a pretense.

He better say the right things. Tonight is not the night to pander to the left.

218 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:24:54am

re: #216 Timmeh

One of my favorite songs. I also love the "Animals" CD.

219 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:31:05am

Good Morning Lizards!

How are you-all this morning?

220 Ericus58  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:32:57am

re: #53 Walter L. Newton

I look forward to your analysis.

221 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:34:35am

Dogs are rough-housing.

Something makes me think they will be asking to go outside in a few minutes.

Why do they do this in the morning when I'm still on my first cuppa?

222 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:35:16am

re: #221 ggt

Dogs are rough-housing.

Something makes me think they will be asking to go outside in a few minutes.

Why do they do this in the morning when I'm still on my first cuppa?

Probably for the same reason my cats only try to kill each other as I'm trying to get ready to go to bed. Maximum human annoyance.

223 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:38:28am

re: #220 Ericus58

I look forward to your analysis.

All I am doing is trying to confirm what others have proposed as a problem. And even then, what I find will not have the same import as something confirmed by an actual scientist. My expertise is as a programmer and database analyst.

224 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:40:16am

Good morning lizards. Looks like the last thread made it to the top of Memorandum. Nice.

225 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:41:13am

re: #222 thedopefishlives

Probably for the same reason my cats only try to kill each other as I'm trying to get ready to go to bed. Maximum human annoyance.

Yep, it's a pet conspiracy.

:)

226 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:48:06am

re: #224 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards. Looks like the last thread made it to the top of Memorandum. Nice.

Indeed it is.

Good morning, lizards... back again after a break from blogging to tend to school and family matters.

227 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:49:57am

re: #226 Irish Rose

Indeed it is.

Good morning, lizards... back again after a break from blogging to tend to school and family matters.

Welcome back, {rose}. Hope everything is well.

228 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:51:12am

re: #227 thedopefishlives

Welcome back, {rose}. Hope everything is well.

Everything is great.
Better than great, in fact... sweetie and I are now officially engaged.

229 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:51:44am

re: #228 Irish Rose

Everything is great.
Better than great, in fact... sweetie and I are now officially engaged.

Congratulations!

230 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:53:21am

re: #228 Irish Rose

Everything is great.
Better than great, in fact... sweetie and I are now officially engaged.

Many congratulations! That's so wonderful! The Mrs. Fish and I are actually all excited, as our Christmas gift to ourselves this year may, in fact, be our own house. I'll finally get to own the fishbowl I live in.

231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:53:35am

re: #228 Irish Rose

Everything is great.
Better than great, in fact... sweetie and I are now officially engaged.

A WEDDING?

how cool! Congrats.

232 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:53:57am

re: #228 Irish Rose

Everything is great.
Better than great, in fact... sweetie and I are now officially engaged.

Congrats.

233 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:57:45am

Thanks ya'll.
We've been dating for almost five years now so it's no big surprise to our families. We'll be combining households this coming July, and we'll likely set the date for a ceremony late 2010/early 2011.

234 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:58:01am

My radio just said CBS is only giving Obama 30 minutes for his speech. Then they are switching to the Victoria's Secret show that was planned. Priorities, I guess.

235 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:59:00am

re: #230 thedopefishlives

Many congratulations! That's so wonderful! The Mrs. Fish and I are actually all excited, as our Christmas gift to ourselves this year may, in fact, be our own house. I'll finally get to own the fishbowl I live in.

Now that is great news!

236 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:59:06am

UN marks November 29 'day of mourning'

While Israel celebrates date on which it was given a state by UN, latter plans anti-Israeli resolutions

WASHINGTON – The UN is currently marking the historic date of November 29 1947, the day in which it approved the partition plan separating Israel into two states – Jewish and Arabic.

But while in Israel the date is celebratory, as it marks the end of the British mandate and the beginning of independent rule, the UN headquarters in New York and Geneva are holding ceremonies of mourning and solidarity with the Palestinian people.

The General Assembly in New York has embarked on a two-day marathon of anti-Israeli debates and votes, during which it plans to focus on the promotion of the Palestinian issue. Hearings will be held on subjects such as sovereignty over Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

Israel has traditionally boycotted the debates due to their one-sidedness, but in recent years has changed its tune. Israel's ambassador to the UN, Gabriela Shalev, is scheduled to speak before the assembly Tuesday and condemn the UN tradition of memorializing the date on which Israel was given a state as a day of mourning.

237 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:00:13am

re: #236 NJDhockeyfan

UN marks November 29 'day of mourning'

While Israel celebrates date on which it was given a state by UN, latter plans anti-Israeli resolutions

UN is mourning it's own action?

Why doesn't that suprise me.

238 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:03:44am

re: #235 Irish Rose

Now that is great news!

That's the theory. The reality, of course, is quite a bit more complicated than that, but assuming it all works out to our satisfaction, we'll be able to move in some time after the new year. I only pray I'll be able to collect the necessary funds before then.

239 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:05:41am

Federal Subsidy to COBRA Ends

Unemployed Americans are about to see their health care costs soar.

A federal subsidy to COBRA ends Tuesday.

COBRA is the program that allows workers to keep their company's health insurance plan after they leave their job.

The subsidy was part of the the economic stimulus bill President Obama signed in February. It lowered the cost of COBRA by 65% for workers laid off after September 1 of last year. But the subsidy only lasted nine months.

Advocacy group Families USA says the average family using COBRA will see their insurance premiums jump from $389 per month to more than $1,100 per month.

240 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:12:14am

Rat-eating plant discovered in Philippines


The plant is among the largest of all pitchers and is believed to be the largest meat-eating shrub, dissolving rats with acid-like enzymes.

The team of botanists, led by British experts Stewart McPherson and Alastair Robinson, found the plant on Mount Victoria in the Philippines.

They were inspired to search for the plant after word that it is existed came from two Christian missionaries who described seeing a large carnivorous pitcher in 2000 after they climbed the mountain.

Mr McPherson, of Poole Dorset, said: "The plant produces spectacular traps which catch not only insects, but also rodents. It is remarkable that it remained undiscovered until the 21st century."

The team, which found the plant in 2007 following a two-month expedition, published details of their discovery in the Botanical Journal of Linnean Society earlier this year following a three-year study of all 120 species of pitcher plant.

How cool is that?

241 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:16:01am

re: #238 thedopefishlives

It's a blessed thing to own your own home.

I own mine, and I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do with it yet as sweetie and I are both homeowners... we'd eventually like to sell them both and buy something larger with some acreage.

My home is in a great location in a quaint little resort town near the Lake Michigan shoreline. I'll probably try to sell it over the summer... if I can't get a decent return on my initial investment, I'll likely take it off the market and rent it out for a while.

242 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:19:49am

Have a great day all!

243 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:33:31am

re: #239 NJDhockeyfan

not good. very not good.

244 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:34:49am

Pres. Bush announced The Surge from the Oval Office. BHO will announce his increase in troops at West Point.

245 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:36:30am

re: #244 MandyManners

Pres. Bush announced The Surge from the Oval Office. BHO will announce his increase in troops at West Point.

Backdrop doesn't matter if there is no substance to the speech.

246 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:40:44am

re: #245 Cannadian Club Akbar

Backdrop doesn't matter if there is no substance to the speech.

That's not the point. Just think about the two fora for a minute.

247 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:42:20am

re: #246 MandyManners

That's not the point. Just think about the two fora for a minute.

K. I give up.

248 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:42:40am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area.

The good news for the day is that Maurice Clemmons was killed by a Seattle area police officer after the officer spotted him in the vicinity of a stolen vehicle. Clemmons refused to obey the officer's directives, and the officer shot and killed Clemmons. Clemmons was found to possess a weapon from one of the four police officers he murdered. He also had a gunshot wound from that encounter.

Huckabee's record continues to take a justified beating, and while he claimed on O'Reilly that he wouldn't have made the decision to commute his sentence had he known what he knows now, his PAC site continues to blame others for the decision to commute.

Today is also when President Obama is scheduled to announce a troop surge. He's doing so at West Point, and it's expected that the US Marines are the first wave of the troop increase. Most critical is how Obama couches the exit strategy. If he gives any signals to a cut and run even with a troop increase, he should rightfully catch flak for his inability to grasp the seriousness of the situation and 3 months of "thoughtful consideration" will be shown to be little more than dithering and contemplating the political fallout off the decision rather than improving US national security.

But in between all that, here's a nature photo to bring things into balance.

249 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:43:16am

Why, yes, I am a pedantic twit.

250 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:43:47am

re: #247 Cannadian Club Akbar

K. I give up.

Did Pres. Bush need a captive audience to applaud?

251 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:44:51am

re: #250 MandyManners

Did Pres. Bush need a captive audience to applaud?

Leader lead.

252 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:45:22am

re: #250 MandyManners

Did Pres. Bush need a captive audience to applaud?

"You guys make a pretty good photo op."
~BHO

253 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:47:06am

re: #252 NJDhockeyfan

"You guys make a pretty good photo op."
~BHO

You're on the right trail!

254 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:48:38am

re: #253 MandyManners

You're on the right trail!

IIRC, Obama has given speeches and gotten a smattering of applause at military bases.

255 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:49:57am

President Obama's speech with West Point and the cadet corps as a backdrop is notable; he needs all the help he can get and the visuals will help get support among independents wavering on his foreign policy. The left would cut and run at the first opportunity, and I suspect Obama would do so as well, but for the fact that everyone knows that cutting and running from the very war where Obama himself said was the right war, would show just how unserious the Democrats are in national security. He had to cobble together a coalition of mostly GOPers to get the funding for his surge; Democrats would rather see the fight end as they slowly cut off the purse strings.

256 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:50:03am
257 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:50:54am

re: #250 MandyManners

yes, yes he did.


[Link: www.npr.org...]

every townhall he did was pre screened for purity, and he never missed an opportunity to make speeches in front of the military - landing on an air craft carrier for a photo op for instance.

the Guy's popularity rating was down to 25% - at one point pretty much all he did was pop up on the news giving speeches to troops.

258 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:52:44am

re: #257 wozzablog

You linked to NPR? Seriously? If you can't come up with better sourcing than that, I don't know what to say.

259 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:53:46am

So I really don't get the whole, "OH MY GOD, HE TOOK 3 MONTHS" bit. But seriously, what was he thinking about for 3 months? He wasn't pondering all those decades of military wisdom he's collected in his time at.. law school, and.. in the streets of Chicago. With absolutely zero qualification to lead the military, what does he deliberate about?

260 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:54:42am

re: #258 thedopefishlives

You linked to NPR? Seriously? If you can't come up with better sourcing than that, I don't know what to say.

Nothing wrong with NPR-- they were pretty much the best source for all the Ft Hood background.
BTW, everything wozzablog said can be sourced elsewhere.

261 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:55:41am

re: #258 thedopefishlives

silly ol' me.

thinking that any source would be good enough to point out that his predessseor gave a speech to Westpoint on the verge of a significant deployment of troops.

i guess i'll go find a link to a Fox story about it.

262 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:55:44am

re: #257 wozzablog

All politicians do it. Obama does it; Bush did it; Clinton did it.

Politicians reward their faithful followers with tickets to these events. They fill the room with them, because it makes for a great backdrop.

What is interesting here is that Obama is making the announcement not from the White House, but from West Point, even as he's announcing that the first troops to be deployed are going to be Marines.

No, what it signals is that he's trying to be serious on military issues, and wants to be seen as a wartime president - the commander in chief. Problem is that most of his Democrat supporters in Congress would rather cut and run than fight and win the war - or even leave Afghanistan knowing that Taliban and al Qaeda can't regroup and use it as a safe haven.

263 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:56:23am

re: #261 wozzablog

I don't like Fox News, either. Keep swingin' there, slugger.

264 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:57:14am

re: #259 cliffster

He was weighing the political fallout, and hoping to get enough support in Congress to fund it. Democrats, particularly in the House, are looking to cut and run, just as they did with Iraq. He had to get enough to support a surge in Afghanistan, and it's mostly GOP support that allows him to make this decision.

265 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:58:22am

re: #263 thedopefishlives

what would you accept as a source for documented fact then?

CNN, BBC, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, AP, Reuters?

266 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:59:19am

re: #259 cliffster

So I really don't get the whole, "OH MY GOD, HE TOOK 3 MONTHS" bit. But seriously, what was he thinking about for 3 months? He wasn't pondering all those decades of military wisdom he's collected in his time at.. law school, and.. in the streets of Chicago. With absolutely zero qualification to lead the military, what does he deliberate about?

Who ya gonna turn to? Those with military careers that have attended war college?
/

267 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:59:40am

re: #265 wozzablog

what would you accept as a source for documented fact then?

CNN, BBC, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, AP, Reuters?

When it comes to political coverage, none of the above. Get it out of the mainstream media.

Anyhow, I'm off for now. Have fun.

268 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:00:42am

re: #259 cliffster

if it's personal military experience that's the measure of decision making you apply to presidents - then it's no wonder that Bush couldn't finish it in 7 years.

269 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:01:15am

re: #265 wozzablog

what would you accept as a source for documented fact then?

CNN, BBC, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, AP, Reuters?

Fact is, those news organizations bash republicans and pander to the Dems.

270 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:01:53am

re: #267 thedopefishlives

a half dead unix bulletin board somehwre you still access through dial up?

get off the grid man - they know where you are...

271 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:02:08am

re: #268 wozzablog

if it's personal military experience that's the measure of decision making you apply to presidents - then it's no wonder that Bush couldn't finish it in 7 years.

But some listen to the Generals.

272 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:04:29am

Are we still working on a 30K pound bunker buster bomb?

273 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:05:29am

re: #271 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not all. Macarthur wanted to nuke China.

Generals are there to advise.

274 filetandrelease  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:06:41am

Obama taking 3 months to conclude the plan his generals submitted is basically the correct one, is a classic example of why Senators don't make good presidents. No executive experience, can't make a decision.

275 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:07:31am

re: #273 wozzablog

Not all. Macarthur wanted to nuke China.

Generals are there to advise.

Hey, you listened to that Robert Gibbs speech too? Cool /

276 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:08:11am

re: #274 filetandrelease

Obama taking 3 months to conclude the plan his generals submitted is basically the correct one, is a classic example of why Senators don't make good presidents. No executive experience, can't make a decision.

Can't make decisions... Obama has made a lot of decisions. I saw the list... he's made so many great decisions that they listed some of them twice on the list.

277 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:08:35am

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

It's in the eye of the beholder.

Liberal democrats believe the MSM is slanted against them - and point out - often correctly - that republicans and conservatives get more face time than Liberals and Democrats.

278 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:12:06am

Chelsea Clinton is getting married.

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

279 Timmeh  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:12:22am

re: #248 lawhawk

Huckabee's record continues to take a justified beating, and while he claimed on O'Reilly that he wouldn't have made the decision to commute his sentence had he known what he knows now, his PAC site continues to blame others for the decision to commute.

It's not even this one particular clemency with Huckabee, but the overall pattern. First, there's the overally sheer number. He granted twice as many pardons and clemencies as his previous three predecessors. So that's like a 6X pace. Then there's the fact that he seemed to be susceptible to religious-based appeals. From what is already known, the Wayne Dumond case seems like the bigger sin, actually, but the overall pattern seems more troubling than any one particular case. If he had just been following normal procedures and got really unlucky, I'd be more inclined to cut him slack.

280 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:12:50am

re: #277 wozzablog

It's in the eye of the beholder.

Liberal democrats believe the MSM is slanted against them - and point out - often correctly - that republicans and conservatives get more face time than Liberals and Democrats.

Can you name actual MSM news outlets are slanted against the left, and link to some actual statistics for you claim... or is this just opinion?

281 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:13:50am

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

Can you name actual MSM news outlets are slanted against the left, and link to some actual statistics for you claim... or is this just opinion?

Fox News then crickets.

282 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:13:53am

re: #279 Timmeh

But he a really sweet man...

283 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:14:16am

re: #262 lawhawk

Tickets for Obama's Elkhart townhall were on a first come first served basis.

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

284 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:14:30am

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

Can you name actual MSM news outlets are slanted against the left, and link to some actual statistics for you claim... or is this just opinion?

(I have to pay closer attention to my typing)

Can you name the actual MSM(s) news outlets that are slanted against the left, and link to some actual statistics for your claim... or is this just opinion?

285 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:15:09am

re: #284 Walter L. Newton

How are your chewers this morning, Walter?

286 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:15:23am

re: #281 Cannadian Club Akbar

Fox News then crickets.

Maybe not... wozzablog usually comes through when he/she makes a statement like that.

287 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:17:14am

re: #285 cliffster

How are your chewers this morning, Walter?

Better. You may have read yesterday, my dentist did find a small bone chip left in my socket from last weeks extraction by the "MASH" unit oral surgeon terrorist. In turn, that did cause dry socket in turn caused an infection, so now antibiotics and I have to wait a week before he can try to fit the partials. Another week with not being able to chew real good.

288 avanti  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:18:53am

re: #274 filetandrelease

Obama taking 3 months to conclude the plan his generals submitted is basically the correct one, is a classic example of why Senators don't make good presidents. No executive experience, can't make a decision.

Actually, from what I've heard, it's much more then just a troop decision. It about funding projects at the local level and bypassing some of the corruption, more training of the Afghans, and a warning that it's not a open ended commitment. We'll know after the speech.

289 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:19:24am

re: #278 Mad Al-Jaffee

Chelsea Clinton is getting married.

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

Will Father of the Groom Be Welcome Figure at Chelsea Clinton's Wedding?

If Ed Mezvinsky, the disgraced father of Chelsea Clinton's newly-announced fiancé Marc Mezvinsky, attends his own son's wedding, he might want to consider ducking out before the reception. Mezvinsky was convicted in 2002 of bilking his associates, friends and family members -- even his own late mother-in-law -- out of millions of dollars. Despite being released in April 2008 after serving five years in prison, Mezvinsky remains on federal probation and still owes almost $9.4 million in restitution to his victims.

An ABC News investigation revealed that Mezvinsky, a former Democratic Congressman from Iowa, had been caught up in a series of Nigerian e-mail scams and began to steal from people to further his schemes.

290 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:19:57am

re: #288 avanti

Actually, from what I've heard, it's much more then just a troop decision. It about funding projects at the local level and bypassing some of the corruption, more training of the Afghans, and a warning that it's not a open ended commitment. We'll know after the speech.

It sounds like we already know... funding, training, warnings... you have the inside track?

291 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:20:47am

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

Better. You may have read yesterday, my dentist did find a small bone chip left in my socket from last weeks extraction by the "MASH" unit oral surgeon terrorist. In turn, that did cause dry socket in turn caused an infection, so now antibiotics and I have to wait a week before he can try to fit the partials. Another week with not being able to chew real good.

Glad there's a solution. Fuck dental problems.

292 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:21:16am

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

I had a time when I had dental work done and couldn't chew. Dice up some chicken and put it in some mashed potatos. Worked for me.

293 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:21:39am

re: #289 NJDhockeyfan

If Ed Mezvinsky, the disgraced father of Chelsea Clinton's newly-announced fiancé Marc Mezvinsky, attends his own son's wedding, he might want to consider ducking out before the reception. Mezvinsky was convicted in 2002 of bilking his associates, friends and family members -- even his own late mother-in-law -- out of millions of dollars. Despite being released in April 2008 after serving five years in prison, Mezvinsky remains on federal probation and still owes almost $9.4 million in restitution to his victims.

An ABC News investigation revealed that Mezvinsky, a former Democratic Congressman from Iowa, had been caught up in a series of Nigerian e-mail scams and began to steal from people to further his schemes.

And there is a problem? Mezvinsky will probably feel like part of the family...

294 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:22:45am

re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had a time when I had dental work done and couldn't chew. Dice up some chicken and put it in some mashed potatos. Worked for me.

That's what I did last night, with turkey and mashed Pee's. And a lot of gravy to help it down... I hated to use all that fattening gravy.

295 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:22:56am

re: #289 NJDhockeyfan

Question is, will Bill put together the bachelor party?
/

296 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:24:10am

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

Make your taters on the thin side. Less gravy. Plus, you can prolly find a low fat or fat free gravy.

297 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:24:49am

re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar

Make your taters on the thin side. Less gravy. Plus, you can prolly find a low fat or fat free gravy.

You just took all the fun out of it :)

298 avanti  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:24:50am

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

It sounds like we already know... funding, training, warnings... you have the inside track?

No Walter, just been watching the news about the plan.

299 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:27:48am

re: #297 Walter L. Newton

You just took all the fun out of it :)

Guess I won't tell you about the one pound T-Bone I am having for dinner. Oops!!
/

300 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:29:56am
301 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:31:31am

re: #277 wozzablog

It's in the eye of the beholder.

Liberal democrats believe the MSM is slanted against them - and point out - often correctly - that republicans and conservatives get more face time than Liberals and Democrats.

You getting me the stats on this?

302 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:31:37am

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

The far lefties near me think the MSM is a total rightist propaganda machine. Their disconnect from reality is breathtaking.

303 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:31:57am

re: #299 Cannadian Club Akbar

Guess I won't tell you about the one pound T-Bone I am having for dinner. Oops!!
/

Where did you get that steak?

Meat grown in laboratory in world first

304 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:32:31am

BBL

305 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:33:15am

The previous thread is a flounce-fest this morning.

306 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:33:43am

re: #303 NJDhockeyfan

Where did you get that steak?

Meat grown in laboratory in world first

A cow died, trust me.:)

307 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:34:11am

re: #305 NJDhockeyfan

The previous thread is a flounce-fest this morning.

Still?

308 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:34:41am

re: #305 NJDhockeyfan

The previous thread is a flounce-fest this morning.

Just for the record... I don't care. Wow, whoopee, anyone like plane crashes and car wrecks? (nothing personal NJDhockeyfan, just riding on your comment)

309 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:35:18am

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

The leftwing bombthrowers at American Conservative don't think it's black and white either.

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

I'm just saying - the far left hates the MSM and the right hates the MSM ... i think on that basis it's a wash

310 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:39:09am

re: #309 wozzablog

The leftwing bombthrowers at American Conservative don't think it's black and white either.

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

I'm just saying - the far left hates the MSM and the right hates the MSM ... i think on that basis it's a wash

Hmmm... that's an opinion piece, sort of like your comment, so your answer to my question is it's opinion, not verifiable statistically... right?

311 gregb  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:41:52am

WSJ article on "online disinhibition effect". Kind of explains why some people like acting flouncy.

312 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:47:31am

re: #310 Walter L. Newton

From 2oo6 - so covers the Bush period.
Methodology is fairly sound on the GOP/Conservative majority on Sunday shows.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

I did have a more modern piece to hand - but can't find it at the moment. will try to post it later.

313 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:48:12am

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

The stories I've seen were during the Stimulus debate and referred to cable appearances, I'm not familiar with anyone keeping an actual tally or decontructing news stories for bias:

Think Progress

314 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:49:56am

re: #313 Jeff In Ohio

Cheers - thats one i had but lost.

315 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:51:17am

re: #313 Jeff In Ohio

The stories I've seen were during the Stimulus debate and referred to cable appearances, I'm not familiar with anyone keeping an actual tally or decontructing news stories for bias:

Think Progress


That is what I wonder. Good point.

316 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:52:00am

re: #312 wozzablog

re: #313 Jeff In Ohio

So, both of you are telling me that the left thinks the MSM is bias toward conservatives and conservative issues, yet you have no statistics on that and all you can link me to is some opinion pieces.

Look, I have no problem with understanding and realizing and admitting that news outlets like Fox is certainly bias to conservatives and conservative issues... but you are going to have to do better than some vague opinion pieces to prove that the MSM is generally bias to conservatives.

Yea, and the moon is made of green cheese.

317 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:55:08am

re: #313 Jeff In Ohio

News stories no - but panlleists yes. Its the pannellists and pundits Liberals believe makes the media "conservative" tainted - while its the choice of stories that the conservatives believe its "liberal".

Media matters covers "conservative" talking points being picked up by MSM figures and touted - Brent Bozells mob do the same on the right. I think MediaMatters is more rigourous - but thats just me.

318 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:57:33am

re: #317 wozzablog

Didn't Hillary start Media Matters?

319 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:58:03am

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

the link i provided gave a conservative dominance on sunday shows in the MSM... and the link Jeff gave you showed a massive conservative imbalance in the pundits put on by the MSM.

If the media was Left/Liberal lock stock and barrel then conservatives would be frozen out.

The methodology is there - the numbers are there.

Overall i'm willing to call it a wash as both sides can site chapter and verse - but the verses Jeff and I linked to had footnotes.

320 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:58:06am

re: #317 wozzablog

News stories no - but panlleists yes. Its the pannellists and pundits Liberals believe makes the media "conservative" tainted - while its the choice of stories that the conservatives believe its "liberal".

Media matters covers "conservative" talking points being picked up by MSM figures and touted - Brent Bozells mob do the same on the right. I think MediaMatters is more rigourous - but thats just me.

Why didn't you say Media Matters... now there's a non-biased source. Start your day with a laugh.

321 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:58:15am

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

re: #313 Jeff In Ohio

So, both of you are telling me that the left thinks the MSM is bias toward conservatives and conservative issues, yet you have no statistics on that and all you can link me to is some opinion pieces.
.

That's right, I got nothing. Mostly I think the MSM is biased towards pushing narratives that make them money through increase viewership.

322 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:58:51am

re: #321 Jeff In Ohio

That's right, I got nothing. Mostly I think the MSM is biased towards pushing narratives that make them money through increase viewership.

Well, that I'll agree with, and hold you to.

323 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:02:42am

re: #318 Cannadian Club Akbar

she was a doner among many.

324 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:08:01am

re: #323 wozzablog

she was a doner among many.

Hey, they've got Podesta, formerly of the Clinton admin, as the Pres of Center for American Progress, the founding org of Media Matters, and whose membership feature prominently in the BHO admin.

And the CAP have an "artist in residence." How cute.

325 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:08:26am
326 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:16:19am

Morning Lizards

327 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:17:49am

Just lovely - a new spy scandal at Gitmo.

Professional military security and intelligence officials at Gitmo did the preliminary probe, then prepared a classified summary and are now briefing top officials and members of Congress in Washington. An active FBI criminal probe is also under way.

The possible new spy ring involves several Arabic linguists, some also Egyptian and Syrian immigrants. They're suspected of, among other things:

* Omitting valuable intelligence from their translations of interrogations.

* Slipping notes to detainees inside copies of the Koran.

* Coaching detainees to make allegations of abuse against interrogators.

* Meeting with suspects on the terror watchlist while back in the United States.

Officials say some of the suspected "dirty" linguists -- who met privately in a locked mosque at Gitmo -- have had access to 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed and other high-value al Qaeda detainees.

328 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:17:55am

re: #320 Walter L. Newton

shocker here - you may want to sit down - the MSM don't want to look into themselves.

It's upto organisations on either side to try and prove their own hypothesis.

There are some on the left and the right both going after the MSM.

People on both sides can both point to information that claims to support their own points of view.

whats unreasonable about any of that?... please.

329 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:18:45am

re: #318 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't Hillary start Media Matters?

No. david Brock did.

330 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:19:27am

re: #329 iceweasel

No. david Brock did.

K.

331 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:19:47am

re: #326 McSpiff

Morning Lizards

Buenas dias

332 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:20:27am

Did we see many flounces last night?

333 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:20:49am

Iraqi boy thankful for Michigan soldier who cared

He was a young boy living in Iraq when he caught the eye of a major in the Michigan Army National Guard.

The boy's mother took off his cap and exposed his disfigured head.

"Will you save me?" the boy, then 11, said to Maj. David Howell.

Five months later, Howell got Mohammed a visa, a passport and a commitment from surgeons at Michigan State University that they would help the boy. Mohammed has since received thousands of dollars in free medical care, giving him a lot to be thankful for during his first Thanksgiving in America.

His story is one of both the gratefulness of a boy and the remarkable commitment of a Michigan National Guardsman, who went off to fight a war and ended up repaying a debt and freeing a child from wounds of his youth. It is also about a boy who has made others feel blessed to have joined his journey.

:o)

334 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:21:52am

re: #328 wozzablog

shocker here - you may want to sit down - the MSM don't want to look into themselves.

It's upto organisations on either side to try and prove their own hypothesis.

There are some on the left and the right both going after the MSM.

People on both sides can both point to information that claims to support their own points of view.

whats unreasonable about any of that?... please.

Nothing... remember that when this comes up in the future.

335 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:21:59am

re: #332 McSpiff

Did we see many flounces last night?

Lots more this morning. Some are upset they haven't been banned yet. People are strange.

336 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:22:41am

re: #332 McSpiff

Yes - yes we did.

None of them very good or particularly memorable.

337 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:23:24am

re: #327 lawhawk

That's what happens when you kick the American military translators out because they're gay.

Report: More gay linguists discharged than first thought
Records suggest U.S. military placesanti-gay position over national security

BTW, Obama has also discharged a translator for being gay as well, so this isn't something only the Bush admin was guilty of.

338 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:24:33am

re: #334 Walter L. Newton

Long as people have a sound methodology for their data i really don't mind where it comes from.

i don't begrudge anyone a good survey - i do begrugde a lot of bad ones though ;-)

339 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:24:34am

re: #335 NJDhockeyfan

Lots more this morning. Some are upset they haven't been banned yet. People are strange.

We had a class discussion once, about how some conservative types need a strong father figure in their politics. I almost wonder if this lashing out and begging for punishment is a manifestation of that.

Or they're just plain nuts. Either or.

340 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:26:36am
341 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:26:59am

re: #337 iceweasel

I'm not sure that is the problem; the problem is that a percentage translators are engaging in treasonous activities. If some translators were bounced because they were gay, it increases the percentage of those treasonous bastards.

There's no easy solution here to get more translators. Many of those who are language experts are also among the same population groups from which these accused translators belong; it calls into question where their allegiance rests - with the US or with those who are waging jihad against the US and the West.

342 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:27:15am

re: #337 iceweasel

That's what happens when you kick the American military translators out because they're gay.

Report: More gay linguists discharged than first thought
Records suggest U.S. military placesanti-gay position over national security

BTW, Obama has also discharged a translator for being gay as well, so this isn't something only the Bush admin was guilty of.

I think the firing of the gay translators is absolutely stupid - for Pete's sake, we NEED folk who know the lingo.

As for the "compromised" translators and interpreters, I wonder if they shared any commonalities, any similar patterns of facts of biography, with the Gitmo detainees? Frankly, THAT is a real security problem, and not where, whether, and with whom they may sleep.

343 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:27:18am

re: #4 Bagua


Well now,
Brooks run into the Ocean,
Ocean run into the sea
I don't run into my baby, you know man
Somebody's got the best of me
But I say that's all right...

[Video]

Brooks don't run into oceans,
Brooks they run into streams,
Streams run into the river,
River runs into my dreams.

But now that the globe is warming,
Oceans are soon gonna rise,
Tides will run up the river,
Water up to my eyes.

344 KingKenrod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:30:04am

re: #337 iceweasel

That's what happens when you kick the American military translators out because they're gay.

Report: More gay linguists discharged than first thought
Records suggest U.S. military placesanti-gay position over national security

BTW, Obama has also discharged a translator for being gay as well, so this isn't something only the Bush admin was guilty of.

It's just crazy and stupid to get rid of talented people for that.

But I did note one of the gay soldiers announced his homosexuality to his superiors (they already knew he was gay, but didn't care) just before his 2nd tour of Iraq was to begin. Which means he probably did it to get out of the military. Any rise in "don't ask, don't tell" discharges may be related to these types of voluntary disqualifications.

345 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:30:40am

re: #342 Guanxi88

I think the firing of the gay translators is absolutely stupid - for Pete's sake, we NEED folk who know the lingo.

As for the "compromised" translators and interpreters, I wonder if they shared any commonalities, any similar patterns of facts of biography, with the Gitmo detainees? Frankly, THAT is a real security problem, and not where, whether, and with whom they may sleep.

Really is a complex issue. When language becomes closely tied to tribe and region, in some ways you want someone as close as possible to the detainees. But then you end up with this situation. Not really sure what the right answer is.

346 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:31:32am

re: #341 lawhawk

I'm not sure that is the problem; the problem is that a percentage translators are engaging in treasonous activities. If some translators were bounced because they were gay, it increases the percentage of those treasonous bastards.

There's no easy solution here to get more translators. Many of those who are language experts are also among the same population groups from which these accused translators belong; it calls into question where their allegiance rests - with the US or with those who are waging jihad against the US and the West.

We canned a lot of Arabic translators over the years of the GWOT for being gay. Incredibly stupid, IMO. Consequently the pressure was on to find Arabic speakers. I'd like to know the breakdown of the citizenship status of the treasonous translators-- the story mentions that several of them are 'egyptian and syrian immigrants'.
DADT has done a lot of harm, but to my mind this has long been one of the worst effects of it.

347 albusteve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:32:06am

posting from my ex's monster Mac...took me awhile to get it turned in and find the internet...this thing is a beast, the monitor is about two feet wide...I'm a humble HP guy, but this thing is really impressive

348 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:32:41am

re: #346 iceweasel

We canned a lot of Arabic translators over the years of the GWOT for being gay. Incredibly stupid, IMO. Consequently the pressure was on to find Arabic speakers. I'd like to know the breakdown of the citizenship status of the treasonous translators-- the story mentions that several of them are 'egyptian and syrian immigrants'.
DADT has done a lot of harm, but to my mind this has long been one of the worst effects of it.

In addition to bouncing gays, the DOD will not hire Arabic-speaking Mizrachi Jews either.

349 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:33:01am

re: #348 Alouette

In addition to bouncing gays, the DOD will not hire Arabic-speaking Mizrachi Jews either.

...what's the logic there?

350 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:33:22am

Al Gore Asking $1,200 Per Handshake In Copenhagen

Still think there's no money in spreading global warming alarmism?

Well, how'd you like to make $1,200 just for shaking someone's hand and having your picture taken with the sycophant?

This is what Al "I'm Only Doing This To Save The Planet" Gore is charging for such an honor at next week's climate change conference in Copenhagen.

Nice work if you can get it, huh?

351 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:33:33am

re: #349 McSpiff

...what's the logic there?

Do not want to offend the Muslims.

352 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:33:50am

re: #345 McSpiff

Really is a complex issue. When language becomes closely tied to tribe and region, in some ways you want someone as close as possible to the detainees. But then you end up with this situation. Not really sure what the right answer is.

Easy -for Arabic interpreters, ya go with Israelis, Druze or Bedouin wherever possible.

For Urdu, Farsi, Pashto, etc., ya find the minority group and ya recruit outta their ranks. Simplest and easiest way.

Example - Farsi - get yourself some Zoroastrians.
Urdu - recruit minority Hindu (there are some) from Pak.
Pashto, etc., might be harder to deal with, although I daresay our friends in the former Central Asian Republics of the USSR could lend a hand.

353 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:36:08am

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

Al Gore Asking $1,200 Per Handshake In Copenhagen

This is why I'm still in a rage that Gore was ever even considered for the prize. If you ask most Canadians about who represents climate change, they'll tell you about this guy: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

354 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:36:44am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

And I have been reading the document file from a CRU programmer named "Harry," and this file contains notes of his work trying to recreate results from different CRU data.

I am a programmer, I can understand another's programmers notes on what he's working on.

It seems that CRU's whole data management, change control, version control and programing methods is a mishmash of techniques and processes, with no standards.

That's why scientist should not be trying to data the work of programmers and information technology regimens. When I worked at the National Renewable Energy Lab, that was part of my job, to help the scientist follow standards on how data is collected, stored, controlled, verified etc. All that stuff that it is evident that CRU was NOT DOING.

This is not a pro or anti AGW stance on my part, I am only talking about data collection and data analysts methods, and so far I see a big problem on how it has been handled at CRU.

You go. It will help if you read as much as possible before plunging into the nitty gritty of data processing. You will need to know, for example, that there are two "constants" for temperature change with altitude. When you ascend in an airplane, the temperature generally drops by X degrees per thousand feet. When you ascend a slope, it's Y, and Y is less than X. There may be adjustments for humidity, whether it's a mountain or a general rise in the lay of the land, and so forth. Taking into account everything vital from climate science, to go along with your own expertise in data, will be a big job. Let's say you do good work.

Getting it taken seriously will then be a challenge. Outsiders with good work find themselves in the same pool with cranks and babes-in-the-woods, and the general tendency among veteran researchers in a field is to blow them all off. Ramanujan had the good fortune to send his letter to somebody in England (Hardy) who could discern the good stuff from the dross. We know of instances in the other direction where good work was only vindicated retrospectively.

355 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:36:50am

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

I think that's disgusting unless the money goes to food banks or similar.

356 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:36:52am

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

Al Gore Asking $1,200 Per Handshake In Copenhagen

I see nothing wrong with this in the least. And I am not being sarcastic. I mean it.

357 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:38:17am

#286 Walter L. Newton

i'm a he ;-)

358 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:39:28am

re: #355 Ojoe

I think that's disgusting unless the money goes to food banks or similar.

The Copenhagen website doesn't say anything about the money going to charity. In fact it doesn't say where the money goes. I assume it goes in Algore's bank account.

359 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:39:35am

re: #340 NJDhockeyfan

and will join the rest of the western world in doing so ;-)

360 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:39:56am

I think it is important that Al Gore won a Nobel Peace Prize for saving all those children from the Nazis making a movie.

361 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:40:48am

re: #352 Guanxi88

Easy -for Arabic interpreters, ya go with Israelis, Druze or Bedouin wherever possible.

For Urdu, Farsi, Pashto, etc., ya find the minority group and ya recruit outta their ranks. Simplest and easiest way.

Example - Farsi - get yourself some Zoroastrians.
Urdu - recruit minority Hindu (there are some) from Pak.
Pashto, etc., might be harder to deal with, although I daresay our friends in the former Central Asian Republics of the USSR could lend a hand.

Agreed that arabic shouldn't be an issue. The others are interesting possibilities, and I wonder why there isnt a program for that.

362 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:41:11am

re: #358 NJDhockeyfan

The Copenhagen website doesn't say anything about the money going to charity. In fact it doesn't say where the money goes. I assume it goes in Algore's bank account.

Well he has to pay for the monster utility bills for his mansion and his jet-setting ways somehow.

363 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:41:29am

re: #359 wozzablog

and will join the rest of the western world in doing so ;-)

Great - all the compassion of capitalism, all the efficiency of socialism. Half as good for twice as much.

We can have an economy like the French or the Belgians? Where do I sign up?

364 albusteve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:41:30am

I'll shake your hand for a cool $100...a bargain my friends...
call my office

365 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:42:43am

re: #364 albusteve

That's cool, do you want to send me a check or use paypal?

366 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:43:07am

re: #354 lostlakehiker

You go. It will help if you read as much as possible before plunging into the nitty gritty of data processing. You will need to know, for example, that there are two "constants" for temperature change with altitude. When you ascend in an airplane, the temperature generally drops by X degrees per thousand feet. When you ascend a slope, it's Y, and Y is less than X. There may be adjustments for humidity, whether it's a mountain or a general rise in the lay of the land, and so forth. Taking into account everything vital from climate science, to go along with your own expertise in data, will be a big job. Let's say you do good work.

Getting it taken seriously will then be a challenge. Outsiders with good work find themselves in the same pool with cranks and babes-in-the-woods, and the general tendency among veteran researchers in a field is to blow them all off. Ramanujan had the good fortune to send his letter to somebody in England (Hardy) who could discern the good stuff from the dross. We know of instances in the other direction where good work was only vindicated retrospectively.

First off, I've been a data analyst and programmer for over 25 years. And I am not talking about creating a new dataset, I am talking about learning all I can about the Hadcrute3 dataset and how credible is the current version of the dataset is.

And when I say credible, I am not talking about AGW. I am talking about the methods used to collect the data, the way the dataset was amended, modified and records deleted.

Currently CRU claims they cannot recreate the connections between the temperature reading, the source of the readings (IE: NCAR, GHCN, NMS, NOAA and some misc sources) and the location in the grid. That's a problem right from the git go.

367 Big Steve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:43:08am

Just got around to reading last night's thread...glad to see that Charles is coming around to my well established position.
/

368 albusteve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:44:40am

re: #367 Big Steve

Just got around to reading last night's thread...glad to see that Charles is coming around to my well established position.
/

he can do whatever he wants...it nobody's business but his

369 Big Steve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:44:50am

re: #366 Walter L. Newton

First off, I've been a data analyst and programmer for over 25 years. And I am not talking about creating a new dataset, I am talking about learning all I can about the Hadcrute3 dataset and how credible is the current version of the dataset is.

And when I say credible, I am not talking about AGW. I am talking about the methods used to collect the data, the way the dataset was amended, modified and records deleted.

Currently CRU claims they cannot recreate the connections between the temperature reading, the source of the readings (IE: NCAR, GHCN, NMS, NOAA and some misc sources) and the location in the grid. That's a problem right from the git go.

Walter...I must say...it is nice to see you doing original research on this. I await your analysis.

370 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:45:31am

re: #361 McSpiff

Agreed that arabic shouldn't be an issue. The others are interesting possibilities, and I wonder why there isnt a program for that.

Well, I mean, they ARE minority groups, so it's possible there just aren't as many of them as my easy, back-of-the-envelope proposals would suggest.

I had a very good Coptic friend who was HEAVILY courted for some sort of job he couldn't tell me about, but for which he needed substantial reference information and in connection with which I had a long sit-down with some very nice gentlemen from J. Edgar's Office, followed by some young chaps who coulda been Wild Bill Donovan's grandkids.

Guy was Coptic, US Citizen (naturalized), and held a JD (or the Egyptian equivalent) in Islamic Jurisprudence from Cairo University, and spoke with the slightest Houston drawl.

371 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:45:59am

re: #362 Emmmieg

His TN home has apparently gotten LEED status, which is above and beyond what nearly all homes in the nation that strive for energy efficiency attain. That's after being one of the biggest energy hogs in the nation.

Of course, all his energy savings at home pale in comparison to the jet setting ways - every one of those trips overseas emits more crap into the air than an average American's emissions for an entire year.

I still think the best way for Gore to show he's serious about his climate change goals is to quit the talk circuit in person and stick to teleconferencing. Of course, that doesn't charge nearly as much per appearance as showing up in person, and he clearly can't get the handshake fees either.

His profit motive clearly trumps whatever climate change pablum he's spewing in a given day.

372 Big Steve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:47:05am

re: #368 albusteve

he can do whatever he wants...it nobody's business but his

Well actually since he did publish it and he is clearly keeping track of responses, links, tweets...I dare say that he isn't worried about keeping his opinion to himself.

373 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:47:37am

re: #371 lawhawk

I find it ironic that a 10,000 square foot private residence could qualify for any kind of "LEED" rating.

Ojoe, Architect.

BBL.

374 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:48:46am

re: #363 Guanxi88

You forgot Poland...


///

375 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:49:30am

re: #369 Big Steve

Walter...I must say...it is nice to see you doing original research on this. I await your analysis.

No, it's not original research. The claims I made about the Hadcrut3 dataset are not my original claims, they are claims that have been made, and now being made even louder since the hacked email release.

What I am going to do is use my skills as a data analyst, database designer and programmer to investigate the claims that this dataset is problematic in a number of areas.

I can assure you if I am able to come to any conclusions, pro or con, it will simply be my personal validation of existing positions.

And remember, I am not looking into the pros or cons of AGW, just how the data was compiled.

376 albusteve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:50:04am

re: #372 Big Steve

Well actually since he did publish it and he is clearly keeping track of responses, links, tweets...I dare say that he isn't worried about keeping his opinion to himself.

that's part of it and why should he be worried about what other people think?...when others get miffed with his point of view it just proves that they are in too deep

377 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:50:55am

re: #341 lawhawk

passive-aggressive jihad?

378 Big Steve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:52:33am

re: #375 Walter L. Newton

No, it's not original research. The claims I made about the Hadcrut3 dataset are not my original claims, they are claims that have been made, and now being made even louder since the hacked email release.

What I am going to do is use my skills as a data analyst, database designer and programmer to investigate the claims that this dataset is problematic in a number of areas.

I can assure you if I am able to come to any conclusions, pro or con, it will simply be my personal validation of existing positions.

And remember, I am not looking into the pros or cons of AGW, just how the data was compiled.

Sounds good to me and I applaud you. Let us know what you come up with.

379 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:54:58am

re: #378 Big Steve

Sounds good to me and I applaud you. Let us know what you come up with.

Thanks, I will. I started looking into this last night, actually stayed up all night reading, looking over the CRU data and their papers on the data... it's my weekend... work days at the theatre are Thursday-Sundays... so this was my time.

Anyway, I'll let you all know what I come across.

380 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:55:19am

re: #374 wozzablog

You forgot Poland...

///

Circa '79?

I am SO there!

381 Big Steve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:56:46am

re: #376 albusteve

that's part of it and why should he be worried about what other people think?...when others get miffed with his point of view it just proves that they are in too deep

Yea I agree...I don't see the value of getting miffed. If you don't agree with Charles, just don't agree civilly. Afterall he gets just one vote like the rest of us.

382 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:56:54am

Iceweasel, wanted to make sure you had seen this. Remember the Maricopa deputy who was going through the defense atty files during the hearing? His deadline was yesterday:

[Link: www.azfamily.com...]

383 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:58:21am

Va. woman killed at site of granddaughter's death

HENRICO, Va. — Police say a Virginia woman was struck and killed while taking flowers to a roadside memorial for her granddaughter who died in a crash at the same spot a week ago.

384 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:59:33am

re: #370 Guanxi88

Well, I mean, they ARE minority groups, so it's possible there just aren't as many of them as my easy, back-of-the-envelope proposals would suggest.

I had a very good Coptic friend who was HEAVILY courted for some sort of job he couldn't tell me about, but for which he needed substantial reference information and in connection with which I had a long sit-down with some very nice gentlemen from J. Edgar's Office, followed by some young chaps who coulda been Wild Bill Donovan's grandkids.

Guy was Coptic, US Citizen (naturalized), and held a JD (or the Egyptian equivalent) in Islamic Jurisprudence from Cairo University, and spoke with the slightest Houston drawl.

Well thats a good thing to see. Glad to see proper security is being handled as well, at least some of the time.

385 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:01:45am

re: #384 McSpiff

Well thats a good thing to see. Glad to see proper security is being handled as well, at least some of the time.

Yeah, if these guys had slipped through the cracks, ya gotta wonder. I mean NAME REDACTED got put through a wringer, and they all but cavity-searched even his references all the way to the back teeth. I assume NAME REDACTED got the gig, 'cause he just up and disappeared one day.

386 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:03:46am

see y'all later

387 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:03:58am

re: #385 Guanxi88

Yeah, if these guys had slipped through the cracks, ya gotta wonder. I mean NAME REDACTED got put through a wringer, and they all but cavity-searched even his references all the way to the back teeth. I assume NAME REDACTED got the gig, 'cause he just up and disappeared one day.

Just makes me think back to Maj. Hasan. Sad really.

388 abolitionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:04:02am

re: #383 NJDhockeyfan

Va. woman killed at site of granddaughter's death

Very sad event.

389 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:05:46am

re: #375 Walter L. Newton

Walter, you might be interested in this:

Geographical Information Systems Initiative

All of their data is available after registry, and they aim for utter transparency.

390 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:08:13am

re: #389 Obdicut

Walter, you might be interested in this:

Geographical Information Systems Initiative

All of their data is available after registry, and they aim for utter transparency.

I've bookmarked it. And don't take this the wrong way, but I am only interested in the Hadcrut3 dataset at the moment. That's one of the chief datasets that the CRU has used for a lot of their climate change research, including the Hockey Stick chart.

Thanks again for the link.

391 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:08:43am
392 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:09:18am

re: #348 Alouette

In addition to bouncing gays, the DOD will not hire Arabic-speaking Mizrachi Jews either.

I did not know that. Why? Seems equally idiotic.

re: #382 RogueOne

Iceweasel, wanted to make sure you had seen this. Remember the Maricopa deputy who was going through the defense atty files during the hearing? His deadline was yesterday:

[Link: www.azfamily.com...]

Cheers RogueOne, thanks for this. I can't get over that story!

393 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:09:48am

re: #389 Obdicut

Walter, you might be interested in this:

Geographical Information Systems Initiative

All of their data is available after registry, and they aim for utter transparency.

And I just did a quick browse of that page. Great, there is some stuff there that actually will help in my education about Hadcrut3, I spoke too quickly in my last comment.

Bad, me, Bad.

394 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:10:41am

Looks like LGF will be especially interesting for the next few weeks. That's bad timing on my part--three and a half tons of commie Energy Star shingles are calling from my driveway. Will check in as weather drives me off the roof.

395 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:11:03am

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

US Secret Plane Uncovered

Looks like another variation on a Delta wing plane from the 50's?

396 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:11:36am

re: #394 Decatur Deb

Looks like LGF will be especially interesting for the next few weeks. That's bad timing on my part--three and a half tons of commie Energy Star shingles are calling from my driveway. Will check in as weather drives me off the roof.

Are you doing your own tear off and replacement?

397 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:13:33am

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

US Secret Plane Uncovered

formerly secret...
looks like a drone to me, but I am no authority for sure.

398 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:13:47am

re: #396 Walter L. Newton

Are you doing your own tear off and replacement?

Yep. For my sins.

399 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:14:05am

re: #390 Walter L. Newton

I've bookmarked it. And don't take this the wrong way, but I am only interested in the Hadcrut3 dataset at the moment. That's one of the chief datasets that the CRU has used for a lot of their climate change research, including the Hockey Stick chart.

Thanks again for the link.

The "hockey stick" chart is common to all five major models, and is consistent with all the other data sets.

I was offering that data, and GSI, not as simply data per se but as an example of transparency and openness to contrast with CRU. I believe, though can't find immediate information about, that at least one of the climate models is fully open source, as well.

400 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:15:27am

re: #392 iceweasel

Cheers RogueOne, thanks for this. I can't get over that story!

I hope the judge tosses his ass in jail today and forces Sheriff Joe's hand. How can a deputy not understand going through defense files is not part of his job?

One more "99% of cops care about your civil rights" story:

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

Judge Jack Weinstein rips NYPD on false arrests as brothers sue for $10M over wrongful narcs bust

A respected federal judge slammed the NYPD Monday as plagued by "widespread falsification by arresting officers."

Weinstein, a 40-year veteran of the bench, was not persuaded by the city's claim that there is no evidence that police lying is condoned as an official policy.

"Informal inquiry by [myself] and among the judges of this court, as well as knowledge of cases in other federal and state courts ... has revealed anecdotal evidence of repeated, widespread falsification by arresting officers of the New York City Police Department," Weinstein wrote.

401 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:15:52am

re: #399 Obdicut

The "hockey stick" chart is common to all five major models, and is consistent with all the other data sets.

I was offering that data, and GSI, not as simply data per se but as an example of transparency and openness to contrast with CRU. I believe, though can't find immediate information about, that at least one of the climate models is fully open source, as well.

See my em>re: #393 Walter L. Newton, I spoke too soon.

402 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:16:34am

re: #398 Decatur Deb

Yep. For my sins.

Whoa... not easy work... I feel for you.

403 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:16:39am

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

US Secret Plane Uncovered

I still want to know more about these craft:

Aurora

DARPA Falcon (Blackswift)

Lenticular Re-entry Vehicle

Blackstar

404 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:16:43am

re: #262 lawhawk


No, what it signals is that he's trying to be serious on military issues, and wants to be seen as a wartime president.

Given as he IS a wartime president, Lord, I hope so.

405 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:17:49am

Uncle Ted's American Jobs Summit
by Ted Nugent

Though I am a risk taker, there’s no risk in asking to be be invited to participate in President Obama's jobs summit at the White House on December 3rd. I won’t crash the party, and this president isn’t going to invite me.

But I should be invited. I am a successful small businessman and have been since
the president was in the first grade.

Depending on the adventure, I employ as many as thirty hard-charging Americans who assist in various global rock and roll maneuvers, guiding sporters on big game hunting adventures, the production of award-winning outdoor television programs, and managers, lawyers and accountants to wade through enough stacks of federal and state laws and requirements to sink the Bismark.

[snip]

406 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:18:27am

BBL - I been up all night getting an education about CRU/Hadcrut3 and other AGW topics, I need a nap. Catch you all in a few hours. We should have snow tonight, makes for cozy evening (and fun while blogging).

407 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:18:48am

re: #401 Walter L. Newton

Sorry, didn't understand that post.

Anyway, here's NASA's open-source software.

GEOS-5

As a big proponent of open-source myself, anything you can do to demonstrate the effectiveness of an open-source approach is great.

408 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:18:53am

re: #406 Walter L. Newton

Sleep well!

409 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:19:01am

re: #402 Walter L. Newton

Whoa... not easy work... I feel for you.

The older I get, the more I love air compressors. The hardest part will be disposal--Alabama doesn't recycle into asphalt.

410 avanti  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:24:29am

re: #259 cliffster

So I really don't get the whole, "OH MY GOD, HE TOOK 3 MONTHS" bit. But seriously, what was he thinking about for 3 months? He wasn't pondering all those decades of military wisdom he's collected in his time at.. law school, and.. in the streets of Chicago. With absolutely zero qualification to lead the military, what does he deliberate about?

As I said before, it's more than just rubber stamping one generals request. The decision involved a overall strategy for the war, not just blindly adding more blood and money without a well thought out plan.
I see no problem with his asking for input from the best and brightest on how to proceed.

411 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:25:12am

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

re: #313 Jeff In Ohio

So, both of you are telling me that the left thinks the MSM is bias toward conservatives and conservative issues, yet you have no statistics on that and all you can link me to is some opinion pieces.

Look, I have no problem with understanding and realizing and admitting that news outlets like Fox is certainly bias to conservatives and conservative issues... but you are going to have to do better than some vague opinion pieces to prove that the MSM is generally bias to conservatives.

Yea, and the moon is made of green cheese.

Check out Alterman--'What Liberal Media?'. He's done the most work on it.

412 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:28:11am

re: #410 avanti

As I said before, it's more than just rubber stamping one generals request. The decision involved a overall strategy for the war, not just blindly adding more blood and money without a well thought out plan.
I see no problem with his asking for input from the best and brightest on how to proceed.

Except that he is wholly unqualified to do anything other than rubber stamp. This is not Obama hatred, it's just true. There's nothing in his domain of experience to qualify him.

413 war_eagle  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:31:43am

OT - EU Draft Document on the Division of Jerusalem

The current holder of the rotating European Union presidency, Sweden, has put together a draft document calling for the division of Jerusalem between Israel and a future Palestinian state and implying that the EU would recognize a unilateral Palestinian declaration of statehood.

Haaretz has obtained a copy of the document (below) that has sparked criticism by Israel, which claims that such a move would further harm the chances of renewing the Mideast peace process.

414 avanti  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:31:46am

re: #412 cliffster

Except that he is wholly unqualified to do anything other than rubber stamp. This is not Obama hatred, it's just true. There's nothing in his domain of experience to qualify him.

If you truly believe that, then you'll have to agree he's smart to rely on the Gates and his military and civilian advisers. No question that they have more expertise in military matters.

415 recusancy  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:31:58am

re: #411 SanFranciscoZionist

Check out Alterman--'What Liberal Media?'. He's done the most work on it.

Bruce Bartlett lays it out pretty well here:

"The rise of Fox News is very important. I do believe that from the 1950s through the 1990s there was a liberal bias in the media. Rupert Murdoch, to his credit, recognized that this created an opportunity for a network catering to conservatives. He was very clever about introducing it with the whole 'fair and balanced' thing, but now there is no balance at all. The Fox News channel is a pure conservative/Republican network that does not pretend to be anything else. Personally, I have no problem with that. The problem is that the rest of the media is no longer liberal. It has moved to the center across the board. This has created an imbalance that requires a Fox-like network that is as liberal as Fox is conservative. MSNBC seems to be trying to fill this role, but very half-heartedly for reasons I am unclear about."

416 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:33:07am

re: #414 avanti

If you truly believe that, then you'll have to agree he's smart to rely on the Gates and his military and civilian advisers. No question that they have more expertise in military matters.

Absolutely. Although I'm curious about the "civilian advisors".

417 Achilles Tang  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:34:09am

If this link has been posted I didn't see it, but I am sure we will hear about it in the near future. The writer is a professor at MIT. Meteorology no less.

The Climate Science Isn't Settled

It is an informative article in many regards, and few would disagree with the title. However it is disconcerting that what we are led to believe are major issues, is glossed over as trivial by the writer. For example, he generally agrees that a 2 degree temperature rise due to AGW is within a reasonable range, but then he says it is no big deal. My understanding is that it is indeed a big deal when it comes to the behavior of glaciers, or ocean ice.

He says that seasonally open water at the north pole is no big deal, but my understanding is that there has been no "north west" sea passage open since the days of Columbus, but there might be next year. That seems rather significant to me.

He glosses over the significance of "disaster" forecasting with the comment that weather always produces disaster in some locations. It is true that any individual such disaster cannot automatically be blamed on AGW, but he totally ignores the one global disaster that is conceivable; namely the rise of sea levels and the fact that the majority of humans live in areas barely above high tide.

An article that calls for questions to the author, and I suspect he will get them in spades.

418 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:35:51am

re: #416 cliffster

Absolutely. Although I'm curious about the "civilian advisors".

Intelligence types me thinks...

419 recusancy  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:35:58am

re: #412 cliffster

Except that he is wholly unqualified to do anything other than rubber stamp. This is not Obama hatred, it's just true. There's nothing in his domain of experience to qualify him.

We have civilian leadership for a reason. And who, other then Bush 41, since at least the 70's was qualified in your opinion?

420 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:36:14am

re: #413 war_eagle

OT - EU Draft Document on the Division of Jerusalem

How very thoughtful of the EU, stepping in and dividing up Jerusalem like that.

421 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:37:30am

There are rumors that NYT is preparing an article on Charles. Spencer claims he was interviewed by them yesterday.

422 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:37:30am

Great News! I just realized I have 3 more weeks to complete these shop prints I'm working on, meaning i have much more time to screw around than I realized! Who's ready to go out for lunch?

423 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:37:44am

re: #420 Guanxi88

How very thoughtful of the EU, stepping in and dividing up Jerusalem like that.

well who has more experience? ;)

424 recusancy  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:38:01am

re: #417 Naso Tang

If this link has been posted I didn't see it, but I am sure we will hear about it in the near future. The writer is a professor at MIT. Meteorology no less.

The Climate Science Isn't Settled

It is an informative article in many regards, and few would disagree with the title. However it is disconcerting that what we are led to believe are major issues, is glossed over as trivial by the writer. For example, he generally agrees that a 2 degree temperature rise due to AGW is within a reasonable range, but then he says it is no big deal. My understanding is that it is indeed a big deal when it comes to the behavior of glaciers, or ocean ice.

He says that seasonally open water at the north pole is no big deal, but my understanding is that there has been no "north west" sea passage open since the days of Columbus, but there might be next year. That seems rather significant to me.

He glosses over the significance of "disaster" forecasting with the comment that weather always produces disaster in some locations. It is true that any individual such disaster cannot automatically be blamed on AGW, but he totally ignores the one global disaster that is conceivable; namely the rise of sea levels and the fact that the majority of humans live in areas barely above high tide.

An article that calls for questions to the author, and I suspect he will get them in spades.

Everybody here knows Lindzen. He's been discredited many times and after which he moves on to a new hypothesis as to why AGW is false.

425 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:38:33am

re: #416 cliffster

Gates is a civilian adviser. He's the Secretary of Defense. That's a civilian role. So are his under secretaries. Generals and their staffs are military. The JCS would be military advisers as well.

Other civilian advisers could include the other members of the national security team - DCIA, National Security Adviser, etc.

The problem I have is that Obama had the various plans laid out before him for several months. It's the same options that have been on the table for that time; he had to make the decision.

He also had to balance the military and strategic interests involved with the political realities - which include the Democrats' reluctance to support an enlarged mission in Afghanistan, even as it's the justified war. It's just no longer the necessary war that they were claiming when arguing against the surge in Iraq (as in squandering resources for the necessary war in Afghanistan).

Democrats in Congress are not the constituency that Obama's relying upon here - it's the GOP. The Democrats in Congress would rather see a cut and run or some variation of same.

The dithering and inaction on this matter results from trying to get the politics to match a military/tactical/strategic plan.

And all the while, the enemies of the US continue with their barbarism.

426 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:38:33am

re: #421 Killgore Trout

There are rumors that NYT is preparing an article on Charles. Spencer claims he was interviewed by them yesterday.

The NYT IS preparing a piece on Charles and LGF.

427 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:39:42am

re: #421 Killgore Trout

There are rumors that NYT is preparing an article on Charles. Spencer claims he was interviewed by them yesterday.

Really? wow, has that been in the works for a while?

428 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:40:17am

re: #427 brookly red

Yes- Charles posted on it quite awhile ago.

429 avanti  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:40:49am

re: #416 cliffster

Absolutely. Although I'm curious about the "civilian advisors".

It appears he went much closer to Gates and the generals plan, but we'll see. The Biden idea was rejected.

430 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:40:56am

re: #418 brookly red

Intelligence types me thinks...

Samantha Power, perhaps?

"In recent weeks, a young and talented writer named Noah Pollack, who writes for the right-wing magazine Commentary, has delved deeply into Power's statements on record. Among other things, he found the following things she said, in a 2002 interview, about what should be done to stop the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: "[It will] mean sacrificing - or investing, I think, more than sacrificing - billions of dollars, not in servicing Israel's military, but actually investing in the new state of Palestine, in investing the billions of dollars it would probably take, also, to support what will have to be a mammoth protection force, not of the old Rwanda kind, but a meaningful military presence."

In that same interview, Power said that the situation will "require external intervention." Pollack very reasonably interpreted this as an expression of support for a "ground invasion of Israel and the Palestinian territories." Otherwise, he wrote, what did she mean when she spoke of "a mammoth protection force"?

Power herself recognizes that the statement is problematic. "Even I don't understand it," she says. And also: "This makes no sense to me." And furthermore: "The quote seems so weird."

Yes. Ms. Power, it does.

431 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:42:31am

re: #428 Sharmuta

Yes- Charles posted on it quite awhile ago.

OK, I will buy that issue, and that one only.

432 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:42:36am

re: #421 Killgore Trout

There are rumors that NYT is preparing an article on Charles. Spencer claims he was interviewed by them yesterday.

I saw that. Spencer is such a tool.
I thought the NYT article with Charles might be in the Magazine section? I can't remember what he posted about it-- that would be especially cool.

433 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:42:48am

And as I warned earlier in the thread, Obama is setting an end-date for the war in Afghanistan, not a winning solution.

President Obama intends to conclude the Afghanistan war and withdraw most U.S. troops within three years, according to senior administration officials.

Obama is sending 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan and ordering military officials to get the reinforcements there within six months, White House officials told CNN Tuesday.

Obama will travel to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, New York, later Tuesday to officially announce his plans. It would to be his second escalation of U.S. forces in the war-torn Islamic country since he came to power in January.

He's basically telegraphing to the Taliban and all our enemies that they simply have to outlast the US resolve to succeed.

Great.

434 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:43:47am

re: #431 brookly red

OK, I will buy that issue, and that one only.

You'd better; they're counting on you to help keep the lights on over there.

435 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:44:47am

re: #433 lawhawk

And as I warned earlier in the thread, Obama is setting an end-date for the war in Afghanistan, not a winning solution.

He's basically telegraphing to the Taliban and all our enemies that they simply have to outlast the US resolve to succeed.

Great.

Proving bin Laden's assessment of us, after the Blackhawk Dwon situation in Mogadishu.

436 tardis  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:45:23am

re: #426 Sharmuta

re: #426 Sharmuta

The NYT IS preparing a piece on Charles and LGF.

I am looking forward to reading that. Any word on its date?

437 Achilles Tang  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:45:35am

re: #403 Guanxi88

Somehow I doubt they would bring a really top secret plane to Khandahar. It's not as if the Taliban have sooper sekrit radars of their own.

My bet is that it is one of many UAVs under development being given some field testing, such as dropping hellfire missiles on campfires and caves in Pakistan.

The other popular science stuff we could perhaps have had by now, if the logical development of the X15 had continued, back in the 60s.

These days I doubt any large sooper sekrit projects are possible, given the lack of prosecution of those who reveal such information.

438 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:48:09am

re: #434 Guanxi88

You'd better; they're counting on you to help keep the lights on over there.

they keep us in the dark... I would be glad to return the favor.

439 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:48:22am

re: #436 tardis

re: #426 Sharmuta

I am looking forward to reading that. Any word on its date?

I don't know, but I'm sure it will cause some to spew their morning coffee.

440 Achilles Tang  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:49:22am

re: #424 recusancy

Everybody here knows Lindzen. He's been discredited many times and after which he moves on to a new hypothesis as to why AGW is false.

Ah, well perhaps I should have known of him, but reading a link at LGF is, with all due respect, not the same amount of press as the primary editorial space on the last page of the WSJ, and I have a lot more respect for the WSJ than I do the NYT.

Maybe Charles could see if they want to bid against each other for the interview? :=)

441 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:49:25am

re: #437 Naso Tang

Somehow I doubt they would bring a really top secret plane to Khandahar. It's not as if the Taliban have sooper sekrit radars of their own.

My bet is that it is one of many UAVs under development being given some field testing, such as dropping hellfire missiles on campfires and caves in Pakistan.

The other popular science stuff we could perhaps have had by now, if the logical development of the X15 had continued, back in the 60s.

These days I doubt any large sooper sekrit projects are possible, given the lack of prosecution of those who reveal such information.

In some ways, I really think we missed an opportunity there. At one point, it seemed as if we were just on the verge of making the leap big-time - the engineering was there, and we seemed ready to spend what it took to get it done.

And just look at us now. A rocket-powered pickup truck and a boon-doggle international space station are the manned program. For pete's sake - we haven't sent men past Earth's orbit since I was a wee small one.

442 tardis  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:50:06am

re: #437 Naso Tang

They probably would not bring any secret designs to Khandahar. I also think it would be a useful place to field test working models of new UAV's. It looks like it is big enough to carry more than just a pair of missiles, and can probably hang around a target for longer than any manned aircraft.

443 Ericus58  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:50:32am

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

You just never know what those Rascals at Boeing and Lockheed have up their sleeves ;)

444 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:52:38am

re: #437 Naso Tang

Somehow I doubt they would bring a really top secret plane to Khandahar. It's not as if the Taliban have sooper sekrit radars of their own.

My bet is that it is one of many UAVs under development being given some field testing, such as dropping hellfire missiles on campfires and caves in Pakistan.

The other popular science stuff we could perhaps have had by now, if the logical development of the X15 had continued, back in the 60s.

These days I doubt any large sooper sekrit projects are possible, given the lack of prosecution of those who reveal such information.

Agreed with most of your post, with the exception of the last paragraph. There are still many, many project that little to nothing are known about. I'm thinking in particular of a few of the newer spy satellites, that other than suspected launches, we really know nothing about.

445 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:55:08am

re: #444 McSpiff

Agreed with most of your post, with the exception of the last paragraph. There are still many, many project that little to nothing are known about. I'm thinking in particular of a few of the newer spy satellites, that other than suspected launches, we really know nothing about.

I know about all kinds of secret projects that I know nothing about.

446 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:55:33am

re: #421 Killgore Trout

There are rumors that NYT is preparing an article on Charles. Spencer claims he was interviewed by them yesterday.

I wonder if he told the reporter he posts at LGF stalker sites.

447 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:55:41am

re: #445 cliffster

By law I know nothing about one or two.

448 Achilles Tang  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:56:44am

re: #444 McSpiff

Agreed with most of your post, with the exception of the last paragraph. There are still many, many project that little to nothing are known about. I'm thinking in particular of a few of the newer spy satellites, that other than suspected launches, we really know nothing about.

I agree with you there, but I was talking more of large flying machines and thousands of people involved. The design capabilities of the lenses on a spy satellite probably don't need to be known by more than a handful of designers. Even those who make it according to engineering specs would not need to know what it can do to any great degree.

449 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:57:55am

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

US Secret Plane Uncovered

I've got two theories on that one.

A. It's from Gizmodo which makes it highly suspect.

B. It's a complete fake. Look at that nose wheel door and the rest of the landing gear. It makes no design sense at all.

Conclusion: Fake

450 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:01:17am

re: #449 Gus 802

I've got two theories on that one.

A. It's from Gizmodo which makes it highly suspect.

B. It's a complete fake. Look at that nose wheel door and the rest of the landing gear. It makes no design sense at all.

Conclusion: Fake

That's what they want you to think!

/

Good afternoon, folks.

451 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:01:35am

re: #448 Naso Tang

I agree with you there, but I was talking more of large flying machines and thousands of people involved. The design capabilities of the lenses on a spy satellite probably don't need to be known by more than a handful of designers. Even those who make it according to engineering specs would not need to know what it can do to any great degree.

Well yes, thats the entire idea behind the way classified information works. You only know what you need to know. I know how the encrypted comm's link works, you know the design capabilities of the lens. But the teams that work on these projects are huge, both military and civilian. I think you're seriously underestimating how these things are designed and built. And the entire thing is classified top to bottom, for all those involved.

452 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:02:05am

re: #425 lawhawk

Or perhaps he just wanted to wait for a good point in the Health Care Reform deliberations. Sandwich between the House and Senate debates, so as not to stir things up.

453 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:02:44am

re: #450 MrSilverDragon

That's what they want you to think!

/

Good afternoon, folks.

For sure. ;)

Coming up next on "What Really Happened!"

//

454 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:08:28am

Seattle police kill suspect in officer slayings

The man suspected of gunning down four police officers in a suburban coffee shop was shot and killed by a lone patrolman investigating a stolen car early Tuesday. Four people were arrested for allegedly helping the suspect elude authorities during a massive two-day manhunt.

Maurice Clemmons was carrying a handgun he took from one of the dead officers when a Seattle policeman recognized him near a stolen car in a working-class south Seattle neighborhood about 2:45 a.m., Assistant Police Chief Jim Pugel said.

The vehicle was running but unoccupied when the officer pulled up, radioed in the license plate number and realized the car was stolen, Pugel said.

455 steve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:09:16am

Suspect in the Lakewood Police Officer shooting was shot dead early this morning!

[Link: video.ap.org...]

456 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:10:29am

re: #454 Sharmuta

Good news.

457 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:10:31am

Al-Qaeda 'terrorists' win right to hear secret evidence

Both men are in prison but if the government refuses to release the information they would be freed on bail with minimal restrictions.

One of the men, who can only be referred to as “U”, is allegedly an associate of Osama bin Laden who was once a senior al-Qaeda instructor and one of the world’s most wanted terrorists.

He was arrested in connection with separate plots to blow up Los Angeles airport and the Christmas market in Strasbourg and is said to have “direct links to Osama bin Laden and other senior al-Qaeda figures.” He has already been released on bail and re-arrested.

The other, “XC” is a 23-year-old Pakistani student who is said to be the “co-ordinator” behind a plot in Manchester last Easter that was “directed by al-Qaeda based overseas.”

The Government is trying to deport him as a member of a “UK-based network involved in terrorist operational activity in the UK, most likely attack planning.”

The ruling could also have an influence on the case of Abu Qatada, once described as Osama bin Laden’s “ambassador in Europe” who was released on bail and then re-arrested after breaching his bail conditions.

The Home Secretary, Alan Johnson, said he was “surprised and disappointed” by the ruling and added: "My sole objective is protecting the public and this judgment will make that job harder.

458 steve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:10:44am

re: #454 Sharmuta

Oops, looks like we had the same info at the same time:-)

459 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:11:52am

re: #454 Sharmuta

re: #455 steve

I'd say he got off very, very easy.

460 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:12:22am

re: #456 Killgore Trout

Good news.

lawhawk posted it earlier, but it seems no one discussed it. I thought I'd try again.

461 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:13:28am
462 steve  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:14:29am

re: #459 cliffster

I prefer this then to drag it out in court for years on end. The families of the 4 officers have enough to worry about.

463 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:14:50am

re: #460 Sharmuta

lawhawk posted it earlier, but it seems no one discussed it. I thought I'd try again.

will eric holder press charges against the cop that killed clemmons?

/ (only semi)

464 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:14:58am

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

State secrets are for fascists like North Koreans.

465 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:16:52am

Another spying scandal at Gitmo

A number of Arabic and Pashtu interpreters at the terror-war detention center at Guantanamo Bay are under active investigation for omitting valuable intelligence from their translations of detainee interrogations, among other security breaches. This could taint some of the evidence at the "9/11 trial" in New York and proceedings against other detainees.

Remarkably, the Pentagon never cleaned up the "mole infestation" at its highest-security facility after the FBI busted a Muslim spy ring at Gitmo in 2003.

The 2003 probe involved at least two Arabic interpreters with high-level security clearance. Senior Airman Ahmad al-Halabi, a Syrian native, and former Army linguist Ahmed Mehalba, an Egyptian native, were later convicted of stealing or mishandling classified documents.

466 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:17:08am

re: #464 Sharmuta

State secrets are for fascists like North Koreans.

well sometimes you need to protect your sources, no?

467 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:18:05am

re: #464 Sharmuta

State secrets are for fascists like North Koreans.

Damn, you hold a grudge ;)

468 Ericus58  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:22:41am

Man, I tried.
Really, I did.
I clicked on the thread downstairs on Charles opinion and his thoughts, started reading from the start to understand all the various thoughts of my fellow Lizards - looking forward to the give-n-take (expecting over-reaction with some)...

... and I can't do it. I'm sorry, but my head was hurting from trying to keep up.

I respect Charles on his thought's, and enjoy spending some of my time here. I'm getting to know more of each of you and find the discussions well worth my time.

I'm a life-long fiscal conservative, with moderate social ideals. My upbringing was fairly poor with very strict religious/social rules. I've traveled down several paths and can say I've come away with my sense of humor intact.

I'll agree and disagree with some of you here at times - perhaps both on the same day ;) But I'll always try and remember that respect is the best approach.

469 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:24:35am

I've been thinking about the case of the State Dinner crashers and there is something that has bugged me since the first time I heard the story. Is it possible that political correctness played a part in this? We know that our POTUS has taken great pains to show the muslim world that he is a good guy and sensitive to "islamophobia." And the last name of the seemingly legitimate couple was "Salahi," which does sound arabic or middle eastern. So is it possible that "PC sensitivities" played a role in the POTUS' staff NOT wanting to put up any "roadblocks" to their entrance, lest the staff be tainted by "humiliating" a prominent couple of arab or muslim descent? Has anyone else wondered about this? Because if it DID play a part in any way, the POTUS (and the country) need to know. And President Obama may have dodged a bullet, literally.

470 charles_martel  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:28:45am

re: #449 Gus 802

I've got two theories on that one.

A. It's from Gizmodo which makes it highly suspect.

B. It's a complete fake. Look at that nose wheel door and the rest of the landing gear. It makes no design sense at all.

Conclusion: Fake

Doesn't look fake to me. What's wrong with the gear? It makes sense that the nose gear retract to the side, along with its cover. And muscular main gear would be appropriate for an off-runway emergency landing.

471 StillAMarine  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:36:11am

re: #454 Sharmuta

May the powers below eat Maurice Clemmons -- in small pieces and over a long period of time.


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Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201011The weather held out just long enough that we could start painting the deck. It is tedious work and still quite tiring in the heat.Just one line in the notes says 'paint deck' but it's gonna translate into many, many ...
dangerman
4 days, 10 hours ago
Views: 478 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 8
Tweets: 0 •
For What It’s Worth - Buffalo Springfield (Cover by Del McCoury Band and Friends) Now Available Digitally:rainmaker.lnk.to See the new release from this jam session of "One Kind Favor" (See That My Grave Is Kept Clean) - Blind Lemon Jeffeson.YouTube A few months ago, a bunch of friends got together to play music ...
Thanos
5 days, 12 hours ago
Views: 699 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Trevor Noah: A Primer on 21st Century “Militias” [VIDEO] A toxic mix of racism and paranoid conspiracy fantasies has propagated the worst among us to arm themselves to the teeth in anticipation for the slaughter of their fellow citizens. Militias have been a part of America since it ...
teleskiguy
5 days, 21 hours ago
Views: 805 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
(49) Mandolin Orange - Unknown Legend (Neil Young Cover)Echo Mountain stream. July 24th, 2020.
Thanos
6 days ago
Views: 778 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 •
The Expanse - Season 5 Official Trailer The future of The Belt has begun as Marco Inaros wages Armageddon against the Inners for a lifetime of oppression and injustice. » Watch the new season of The Expanse now exclusively with your Prime Membership: bit.ly» SUBSCRIBE: bit.ly ...
Thanos
6 days ago
Views: 748 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 4 •
Cellist Plays to Mourn Cathedral Shelled in Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict A historic cathedral has been shelled amid the Armenian-Azerbaijan conflict in the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh, or Artsakh, region, where hundreds have been killed and tens of thousands displaced after two weeks of new fighting. On the evening of Thursday 8 ...
garzooma
6 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 671 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 •
Future Islands - Born in a War (Official Video) 'Born In A War' by Future Islands Wayne White - Director and Production DesignerWoodrow White - Editor, Co-Director, Co-Production Designer Future Islands’ new album 'As Long As You Are', out now on 4AD. Listen, stream and buy album here: ...
Thanos
6 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 749 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
St. Vincent - New York Ft. Yoshiki (Audio)FOLLOW ST. VINCENTilovestvincent.comFacebook: found.eeTwitter: found.eeInstagram: found.ee FOLLOW YOSHIKIyoshiki.netfacebook.com@yoshikiofficialinstagram.com #StVincent #Yoshiki
Thanos
1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 1,057 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 4 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 201004Saturday was filled with intermittent rain so no deck painting. A year ago(!) we had the two fellas dump the first 10 yards of sand into the pool.The front loader damaged a bunch of deck tiles. We anticipated it and ...
dangerman
2 weeks ago
Views: 1,054 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 200927Saturday and Sunday were not quite so stressful and intensive as usual. Still quite hot.- built some sawhorses- did some serious weed whacking - got rained on - finished sealing the deck - planted a few plants around the pond ...
dangerman
2 weeks, 5 days ago
Views: 1,469 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 8
Tweets: 0 •