What? Did I Say Something?

Open • Views: 3,906

Well, LGF traffic is soaring this morning; nearly 6,000 visitors online as I write this. Links coming in from everywhere. The Linux ‘top’ utility shows a load average over 80 and things are getting a bit sluggish, but so far the server hamsters are keeping up with the demand, running their furry little butts off in their little wheels. They’re starting to give me dirty looks, but I’m sending Stinky Beaumont around with chocolate bars and vitamin water. They’ll be fine, but they might demand raises after this.

The funny thing is, that post about “Why I Parted Ways with the Right?” I wrote it in about three minutes last night. It’s been brewing in my cortex for years, and something triggered the release; exactly what, I don’t really know. Guess it was time.

Here’s an open thread while I try to get through the 437 emails that came in overnight and this morning. Lots of hate mail as you might expect, dripping with venom and serving as object examples of exactly what I wrote about.

Jump to bottom

307 comments
1 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:23:52am

Well, I imagine Andrew Sullivan linking to it is probably driving a little bit of traffic your way ;)

2 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:24:30am

Bravo, keep doing what you're doing Charles.

3 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:24:54am

I see people breathing into brown paper bags.

4 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:25:00am

It will get worse when the NYTIMES article is published.

5 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:25:19am

re: #3 Cannadian Club Akbar

I see people breathing into brown paper bags.

That's just me and my Vaporizer.

6 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:26:24am

It shouldn't be a surprise. All of the issues in that post have been discussed and debated thoroughly here over the past year or two. Anyone shocked by this has been paying attention.

7 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:27:48am

Charles better hope Stinky doesn't form a union.

8 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:28:31am

re: #6 Killgore Trout

It shouldn't be a surprise. All of the issues in that post have been discussed and debated thoroughly here over the past year or two. Anyone shocked by this has been paying attention.

Updinged tho' I assume you meant 'hasn't'. :)

9 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:29:02am

re: #6 Killgore Trout

It shouldn't be a surprise. All of the issues in that post have been discussed and debated thoroughly here over the past year or two. Anyone shocked by this has been paying attention.

I think you meant to say ... has NOT been paying attention.

(Hi there)

10 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:29:11am

O its up on #2 now as well. I love how those guys write in that great Soviet/East German way. "The Fascist Imperialists will be punished by rain on thursday, in an attempt to wash away their bourgeois feudal state in preparation for the rise of the workers state!"

11 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:32:01am

I will simply say that I'm grateful for everyone who continues to fight against stupidity, intolerance, hatred and all the other efforts to tear America down just so they can 'win'. America doesn't win if we're been torn apart by people fanning the flames of racial intolerance, or xenophobia, or conspiracy theories, or theocratic inspired violence and retribution. The craziness isn't a Right Wing or Left wing issue, this is an American issue, and it's up to us, as Americans, to fight against it with all the tools at our disposal.

Charles, your tools are your words and your writings. Continue the fight and know that there's one libertarian who salutes you and is grateful for your tireless efforts to fight 'teh crazies'.

12 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:32:17am

is this thing on?

13 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:32:24am

I can't imagine the volume of vitriol being thrown your way.

I certainly do not envy it.

14 exelwood  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:33:02am

Had you had your current opinion of the right wing in '04 would you have pursued Rathergate?

15 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:33:54am
16 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:34:29am

oh, there it goes... must be the high traffic.

17 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:35:23am

Flouncers to the left, flouncers to the right. Stuck in the middle...

18 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:35:50am

re Rathergate:

Charles is anti-idiotarian.
The throbbing memo should be taken, first and foremost, in that context.

19 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:35:51am

We taking bets on the flounces for this one? Could be a real money maker. Although I'm not sure I would have picked #15...

20 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:36:22am

re: #19 McSpiff

We taking bets on the flounces for this one? Could be a real money maker. Although I'm not sure I would have picked #15...

#15 picked himself.

21 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:36:34am
22 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:37:10am

re: #14 exelwood

Had you had your current opinion of the right wing in '04 would you have pursued Rathergate?

Yes. Fraud is fraud.

23 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:37:23am

re: #20 Cannadian Club Akbar

#15 picked himself.

Sorry I mean, I'm not sure I would have placed a bet on the 15th post being the first one. I'd have said somewhere in the 30-50 range.

24 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:37:56am

re: #23 McSpiff

Sorry I mean, I'm not sure I would have placed a bet on the 15th post being the first one. I'd have said somewhere in the 30-50 range.

I thought that after I posted.

25 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:38:04am

It's very, very delicious that people are so constantly shocked when their assumptions, categories and DIN-normed boxes are not met by thought-at-work instead of automatic compliance or defecting. Keep on doing what you are doing, Charles.

26 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:38:58am

re: #25 000G

That should read "are met"... D'uh.

27 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:39:16am

re: #6 Killgore Trout

It shouldn't be a surprise. All of the issues in that post have been discussed and debated thoroughly here over the past year or two. Anyone shocked by this has been paying attention.

It started with Vlaams Belang, and even this morning there was a flouncer who admitted to not paying attention to that issue. If they skipped the VB debate, then I'm sure it's easy for them to not know what the hell is going on here. Charles said two years ago he wasn't against radical islam because of race issues, and he abhorred racism. What part of this did they not understand for those who were paying attention?

28 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:39:45am

I parted ways with the Left and the Right both, and I joined the
Modern Whig Party.

29 Girth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:40:27am

It's amazing to me that the people who get all fired up and bitch and call people traitors and flounce left and right don't even understand that they themselves are proving Charles's point.

30 enoughalready  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:41:28am

Apparently I missed the momentous event yesterday. Kudos to Charles for yet again saying what needed to be said.

31 bluecheese  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:41:45am

I had no luck with the new comments tab a bit ago, but the site seems to be in good working order otherwise.

In the few months that I have been reading here, I've been under the impression that you were comfortable with your red scales. I guess I'm hoping that *someone* is working to reform the Republican party, and I wonder who else is up to the task.

I visited the next right this morning looking for such commentary, and the place is pathetic - there's no one there.

Practical conservative viewpoints are currently needed from the GOP... Are you going to fill that role? Or no...?

32 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:45:35am

re: #1 bloodstar

Well, I imagine Andrew Sullivan linking to it is probably driving a little bit of traffic your way ;)

I liked that AS post.
Hey, for people who read the Atlantic, I think it would be nice to nominate Charles for the Yglesias Award:

The Yglesias Award is for writers, politicians, columnists or pundits who actually criticize their own side, make enemies among political allies, and generally risk something for the sake of saying what they believe.

I know Sully already commented this summer that LGF was an "yglesias award in motion". I think Charles deserves to win it far more than anyone this year, and I have never seen anyone in the blogosphere who has deserved it more in any year.

The email is andrew@theatlantic.com if people would like to nominate and support LGF and Charles, and counteract some of the hatemail he's getting today.

*(And yes, Andrew Sullivan can be a complete ass, most especially when it was about his obsession with Palin's uterus, but a lot of people read him and they're not all lunatics. )

33 BlackFedora  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:48:44am

Its probably bad that I wouldn't mind seeing a post with some excerpts from some of the more entertaining pieces of hate mail...

34 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:48:46am
35 anie  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:49:31am

Was working on thesis writing last night and missed this. All I can say is, please, continue to be a voice of sanity. While I may not agree with you in every particular, I always enjoy reading your posts, which make me think. Unfortunately, thinking seems to be in short supply on the right these days. Truth-telling and pragmatism also seem in danger of disappearing. Your stance on these things makes it possible that someday conservatism can be wrested back from the theocratic nuts who have co-opted it.

36 kernelPanic  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:49:37am

Charles - you should totally do that "monetize the hate" page, I suspect many would find the hate mail amusing and it would be funny to see it used for revenue generation.

37 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:50:35am

re: #9 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I think you meant to say ... has NOT been paying attention.

(Hi there)

Oops, my bad. Not enough coffee yet this morning.

38 gander  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:50:55am

The far right is as repulsive to me as the far left. Good post Charles.

39 fizzlogic  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:51:08am

It's also linked from the front page of Huffington Post.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

40 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:51:22am

Charles,

I don't see eye to eye with you on several issues, but appreciate your anti-idiotarian outlook and thank you for letting us hang out in your "house".

41 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:52:21am

Got the spinning wheel of death. Stepped away for a minute and now all is fine.

42 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:53:41am

re: #17 lawhawk

Flouncers to the left, flouncers to the right. Stuck in the middle...

If you weren't in the middle with some of us, I would cry. I have to say- as time has gone by here in the last few years at LGF, my respect for you has only grown, lawhawk. You're smart, funny, and about the most reasonable poster on this site. Thank you.

43 Tardis  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:54:08am

re: #22 Charles

Yes. Fraud is fraud.

I think this is the key to what draws me to the site. You need to measure everything with the same ruler.

44 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:54:15am

re: #41 Cannadian Club Akbar

Got the spinning wheel of death. Stepped away for a minute and now all is fine.

Stinky needs to start up footrubs for the hamsters, they are working extra hard!!

45 ThomasLite  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:55:51am

yes, it was hard to get through for a moment there.

gotta say I love the post that started this. I still consider myself a conservative but take issue with everything you touched upon there.
always good to get a whiff of sanity around here (even though I'm always to late to post -- reading through 500+ comments is a lot of work).

46 Neutral President  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:56:38am

re: #6 Killgore Trout

It shouldn't be a surprise. All of the issues in that post have been discussed and debated thoroughly here over the past year or two. Anyone shocked by this has been paying attention.

Exactly. That post was basically the readers digest version of nearly everything discussed here for the past year or two. All the kooks and haters already knew all of this unless they have been under a rock since the election. Any fauxtrage over this "revelation" was simply an excuse to rant a little bit louder than they already were.

47 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:58:09am

re: #14 exelwood

Had you had your current opinion of the right wing in '04 would you have pursued Rathergate?

What an asinine question.

48 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:59:09am

I've temporarily disabled some of the auto-updating features, like the 'new comments' count and some of the other stuff, to take some of the load off the web server. Seems to be helping a bit, but things are going to be a bit flaky with this much incoming traffic.

49 Girth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:59:36am

re: #32 iceweasel

I know I'm a minority on this one, but I still like to read Sully more often than not. Already sent my email nominating Charles for a Yglesias Award.

50 ThomasLite  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:01:17am

re: #47 rhino2

What an asinine question.

hmmm, I rather distinctly remember being taught there are very few bad questions. he's asking quite politely, if you ask me.

the only way to have reasonable debate is to at least be able to ask pointed questions now and then.

51 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:01:34am

re: #49 Girth

I know I'm a minority on this one, but I still like to read Sully more often than not. Already sent my email nominating Charles for a Yglesias Award.

I nominated him this summer, and will do so again today.

52 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:02:57am

re: #48 Charles

Seems to be helping a bit, but things are going to be a bit flaky with this much incoming traffic.

53 kernelPanic  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:03:07am

Charles - it won't help for this surge but I've got a largeish colocation cage in an east-coast datacenter that is 90% unused as we use it as more of a research lab than anything else. Happy to park a dedicated server there if you need static content served or a remote server for testing & metrics. In that particular space, electricity costs more than bandwidth and we've got a lot of both.

54 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:03:08am

re: #45 ThomasLite

yes, it was hard to get through for a moment there.

gotta say I love the post that started this. I still consider myself a conservative but take issue with everything you touched upon there.
always good to get a whiff of sanity around here (even though I'm always to late to post -- reading through 500+ comments is a lot of work).

The right ditched the conservatives, but stole our name.

55 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:05:24am

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Oops, my bad. Not enough coffee yet this morning.

IMHO, the solitary member of the "Really-Necessary" food group.

56 Nevertires  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:05:48am

I am a long-time reader/lurker. As others have stated so well - yesterday's post is what draws me back here - day after day. It is intelligent, reasoned, sensible and thoughtful. I truly appreciate Charles' work and the minds that generate the comments I scan and process daily. Thank you...all.

57 Girth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:06:38am

re: #55 pre-Boomer Marine brat

IMHO, the solitary member of the "Really-Necessary" food group.

I could quit drinking beer if I had to, but I won't live in a world without coffee.

58 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:06:51am

re: #36 kernelPanic

Charles - you should totally do that "monetize the hate" page, I suspect many would find the hate mail amusing and it would be funny to see it used for revenue generation.

I've sometimes thought that, but I just saw elsewhere that Free Republic has already posted about this under the heading "Homosexual Agenda".

The hatemail must be incredibly ugly.

59 zeir  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:08:24am

Hang in, Charles!

60 Neutral President  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:09:17am

re: #58 iceweasel

I've sometimes thought that, but I just saw elsewhere that Free Republic has already posted about this under the heading "Homosexual Agenda".

YGBSM!

61 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:09:18am

re: #49 Girth

I know I'm a minority on this one, but I still like to read Sully more often than not. Already sent my email nominating Charles for a Yglesias Award.

I'm sure most of us have long since given up reading or agreeing with anything a blogger writes. Sullivan can go way overboard, his fixation on Palin is no exception, but as was pointed out, there are benefits to having an obsession, you become an expert in that arena. Remember, Sullivan was actually *hopeful* that Palin would be a force for good to revitalize the Fiscally Conservative in the vein of Thatcher. So his obsession started then, and as he dug deeper, he was confronted by all the negative stuff about Palin and... well the rest is history.

I'm sure any blogger would agree, we all write dumb stuff from time to time. But that doesn't mean that bloggers are evil or mendicious. The evil ones are the ones who intentionally lie, and distort in order to pander to a viewpoint. The Bad bloggers ignore the possibility that they might be... wrong.

62 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:09:33am

re: #32 iceweasel

Charles is seriously overdue for an Yglesias Award nomination given the amount of crap he's been taking from right-wing loonies over the last few months. Sullivan's mentioned it in a posts titled 'The Evolution of Charles Johnson', but not really acknowledged the cost involved in Charles sticking to his principles and refusing to go along with the crazy. The specific reason to nominate him would be his calling out Robert Stacy McCain for the racist he is (as that's pretty much what got the haters rolling).

Incidentally, I think Sullivan's forgotten his own definition of that award - I can't remember the last time a 'Yglesias Award Nominee' did in fact risk facing severe consequences from his own side for their statement.

63 JEA62  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:10:37am

Thank you, Charles. It's nice to see someone actually thinking about what they believe rather than spouting talking points verbatim from the top as both the left and right do. I'm totally fed up wth how both have hijecked this country for their own damn ends, regardless of how much damage is done as long as their side wins. Frankly, both extremes and both parties sicken me.

64 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:10:38am

Excuse me, why was zeir just downdinged? For giving Charles a word of encouragement?

65 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:11:14am

re: #54 Sharmuta

The right ditched the conservatives, but stole our name.

As you note with the warning from Goldwater. They didn't listen and welcomed the extremist factions from the Religious-Right. There was a bit of an ebb during Gingrich's time. Even under Bush it was still toned down. Now it has returned with Dobson, Focus on the Family, etc. Making matter worse? They're now taking in the crazies from the Bachman and Paul camps as well as the Beck and Limbaugh Audiences. Even Alex Jones is playing a role in this mess that is the current version of the GOP.

Repeated themes I know.

66 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:12:03am

re: #64 Capitalist Tool

Excuse me, why was zeir just downdinged? For giving Charles a word of encouragement?

Morning mouse wobbles.

/

67 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:13:05am

Ooh, look! There's hope for the GOP after all.

Zombie Reagan Raised From Grave To Lead GOP

68 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:13:27am

re: #33 BlackFedora

Its probably bad that I wouldn't mind seeing a post with some excerpts from some of the more entertaining pieces of hate mail...

Nothing wrong with that. I think pissed off people are hilarious.

69 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:13:40am

re: #62 Merryweather


Incidentally, I think Sullivan's forgotten his own definition of that award - I can't remember the last time a 'Yglesias Award Nominee' did in fact risk facing severe consequences from his own side for their statement.

Another great point. Who else has taken the sheer amount of crap? Ever? (let alone the Yglesias Award winners)

70 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:14:24am

re: #67 Cato the Elder

Ooh, look! There's hope for the GOP after all.

Zombie Reagan Raised From Grave To Lead GOP

Excellent! I had lost hope, but all is clearly not lost!

71 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:14:34am

re: #60 ArchangelMichael

YGBSM!

Whee! I had to google that, btw. :)

72 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:15:20am

re: #67 Cato the Elder

Ooh, look! There's hope for the GOP after all.

Zombie Reagan Raised From Grave To Lead GOP

Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall... so I can feast on your braaains.

73 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:15:27am

re: #64 Capitalist Tool

Excuse me, why was zeir just downdinged? For giving Charles a word of encouragement?

I slipped. I corrected it immediately and made it an upding. Then I had to refresh so I could comment. I'm going to go make some tea for the hamsters and myself.

74 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:15:30am

re: #71 iceweasel

Whee! I had to google that, btw. :)

There's a matrix of arrogant élites who delight in doing that.

75 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:15:41am

re: #68 RogueOne

Nothing wrong with that. I think pissed off people are hilarious.


Those whom the gods would destroy, first they make mad- Euripedes

76 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:16:00am

re: #67 Cato the Elder

I'd be more worried by Zombie Nixon. Then Obama and the Democrats would really be screwed.

77 Neutral President  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:16:51am

re: #71 iceweasel

Whee! I had to google that, btw. :)

Well then, I apologize to Matrix in advance... or something.

78 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:16:54am

re: #65 Gus 802

As you note with the warning from Goldwater. They didn't listen and welcomed the extremist factions from the Religious-Right. There was a bit of an ebb during Gingrich's time. Even under Bush it was still toned down. Now it has returned with Dobson, Focus on the Family, etc. Making matter worse? They're now taking in the crazies from the Bachman and Paul camps as well as the Beck and Limbaugh Audiences. Even Alex Jones is playing a role in this mess that is the current version of the GOP.

Repeated themes I know.

Three of the five major foundations that support the kooks with funding were founded by Birchers. They've had 20 years to build it, and it's show time.

Unfortunately, no one on the right remains to speak against them.

79 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:19:22am

re: #29 Girth

It's amazing to me that the people who get all fired up and bitch and call people traitors and flounce left and right don't even understand that they themselves are proving Charles's point.

It's the story of most breakups: "You aren't the person I was pretending you are!"

80 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:20:33am

re: #42 Sharmuta

Thanks. It's not like I'm trying to be in "the middle" and I've at times been called a right winger, a left winger, even though I quite clearly and plainly state I'm a neoliberal in the classical definition. In fact, I suspect if people looked up that definition, they'd surprise themselves to find their views meshing well with that term.

But that's neither here nor there. I don't go for the personal attacks; instead focusing on the opinions and trying to objectively looking at the issues (disagree with my opinions all you like).

I find the personal attacks on Charles abhorrent and beneath many of the people who formerly posted here. What I think has happened is that Charles posted stuff that questioned their basic assumptions about various entities and groups and issues, and they didn't like it one bit. So, they got angry and posted venomous attacks.

And over time, the attacks have multiplied since the number of issues have only grown - and become much more contentious.

81 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:20:41am

re: #48 Charles

I've temporarily disabled some of the auto-updating features, like the 'new comments' count and some of the other stuff, to take some of the load off the web server. Seems to be helping a bit, but things are going to be a bit flaky with this much incoming traffic.

Odd. "They" are saying that your traffic is way, way down. You mean they're wrong?

/

82 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:20:52am

re: #78 Sharmuta

Three of the five major foundations that support the kooks with funding were founded by Birchers. They've had 20 years to build it, and it's show time.

Unfortunately, no one on the right remains to speak against them.

Cynical political opportunism or a veiled true alliance? We often hear and have heard regarding the birthers, "we know they're crazy but they're our crazies." Now of course the John Birch Society has become mainstreamed by way of Glenn Beck.

83 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:21:24am

re: #48 Charles

I've temporarily disabled some of the auto-updating features, like the 'new comments' count and some of the other stuff, to take some of the load off the web server. Seems to be helping a bit, but things are going to be a bit flaky with this much incoming traffic.

I found this out the hard way.

84 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:21:43am

re: #82 Gus 802

Cynical political opportunism or a veiled true alliance? We often hear and have heard regarding the birthers, "we know they're crazy but they're our crazies." Now of course the John Birch Society has become mainstreamed by way of Glenn Beck.


I keep waiting for mainstream America to catch on about Glenn Beck...

85 Idle Drifter  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:21:52am

re: #67 Cato the Elder

Ooh, look! There's hope for the GOP after all.

Zombie Reagan Raised From Grave To Lead GOP

I'm sorry a undead flesh eating zombie is a undead fleshing eating zombie even if it was my own mother. Only one cure. A shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot and a head shot.

86 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:22:49am

re: #69 iceweasel

President Obama, and...um...that's all I can think of. When you think about it, these nutjobs hate Charles for not hating Obama, so what Charles is getting (as nasty and awful as it is) is still a diluted form of their loathing for the president.

87 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:23:14am

re: #84 Capitalist Tool

I keep waiting for mainstream America to catch on about Glenn Beck...

Right. I meant mainstreamed within the group. Outside of the group, that is America at larges, Glenn Beck is not mainstream and a distinct Fox News product with a limited audience regardless of its size.

88 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:24:09am

What really gets me is Atty. Gen'l Eric Holder giving the green light to continue funding Acorn. Revelations about their partisan nature abound, which is reason enough not to receive tax dollars. Holder is in the tank.

89 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:25:02am

re: #87 Gus 802

Right. I meant mainstreamed within the group. Outside of the group, that is America at larges, Glenn Beck is not mainstream and a distinct Fox News product with a limited audience regardless of its size.

One can only hope. At least his advertisers are fleeing.

90 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:25:34am

Charles- I remember this thread very well. People who didn't get it then are likely not to get it now.

91 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:25:46am

As much as I hate to miss any of the action today I have to get some work done lest bad things happen, but I'll be back!

92 Kruk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:26:09am

Keep fighting the good fight, Charles. This place is a haven of sanity for people like me. I reject the kooky far left, but I'm too repulsed by the bile and racism that passes for Conservatism on the net to consider posting on most of those sites.

93 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:27:17am

re: #88 Capitalist Tool

You can't withhold federal funding from some group just because you don't like them.

94 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:28:22am

re: #54 Sharmuta
re: #65 Gus 802

Now that the housecleaning is done at least here, those of us like myself who are all about fiscal conservatism and less intrusive government can speak to those points. Now at least here we are unburdened by the fringe and it's dark shadow.

95 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:28:57am

Several salient points from Andrew Sullivan's piece today, "Leaving the Right" (which starts off with a big nod to Charles).

I cannot support a movement that is deeply homophobic, cynically deploys fear of homosexuals to win votes, and gives off such a racist vibe that its share of the minority vote remains pitiful.

===

I cannot support a movement that would back a vice-presidential candidate manifestly unqualified and duplicitous because of identity politics and electoral cynicism.

===

I cannot support a movement that refuses to distance itself from a demagogue like Rush Limbaugh or a nutjob like Glenn Beck.

===

I cannot support a movement that believes that the United States should be the sole global power, should sustain a permanent war machine to police the entire planet, and sees violence as the core tool for international relations.

Good on you, Charles. We have our disagreements, but you stand for reason. And a sense of humor into the bargain.

Keep your knives sharp and your wits sharper.

96 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:29:26am

re: #80 lawhawk

Thanks. It's not like I'm trying to be in "the middle" and I've at times been called a right winger, a left winger, even though I quite clearly and plainly state I'm a neoliberal in the classical definition. In fact, I suspect if people looked up that definition, they'd surprise themselves to find their views meshing well with that term.

But that's neither here nor there. I don't go for the personal attacks; instead focusing on the opinions and trying to objectively looking at the issues (disagree with my opinions all you like).

I find the personal attacks on Charles abhorrent and beneath many of the people who formerly posted here. What I think has happened is that Charles posted stuff that questioned their basic assumptions about various entities and groups and issues, and they didn't like it one bit. So, they got angry and posted venomous attacks.

And over time, the attacks have multiplied since the number of issues have only grown - and become much more contentious.

I'm sure this has been said before, but I believe it requires reiteration. It's been proven so many times in history that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" isn't always true. The more apt statement should be "the enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy."

97 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:29:34am

While you read through your poison pen mail I recommend your favorite beverage, a plate of cookies and the thought that the haters may hate but lots of us respect and rely on what you are doing.

Thanks man.

98 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:30:52am

re: #95 Cato the Elder

Several salient points from Andrew Sullivan's piece today, "Leaving the Right" (which starts off with a big nod to Charles).

Good on you, Charles. We have our disagreements, but you stand for reason. And a sense of humor into the bargain.

Keep your knives sharp and your wits sharper.

You have a sense of humor? I must have missed that?

99 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:31:24am

re: #97 Locker

While you read through your poison pen mail I recommend your favorite beverage, a plate of cookies and the thought that the haters may hate but lots of us respect and rely on what you are doing.

Thanks man.

And I respect what you are doing.

100 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:32:04am

So the British have the BNP, we have the GOP, how is this going to end? What will the climax be?

101 AJStrata  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:33:35am
102 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:34:06am

re: #100 Pepper Fox

So the British have the BNP, we have the GOP, how is this going to end? What will the climax be?

Socialized medicine, 20 percent real unemployment, massive debt, and no solutions.

WHOO HOO!! Epic Win of Epic Fail proportions...

103 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:35:39am

re: #101 AJStrata

From your entry:

The fact CJ is both bitter and a lost cause is a reflection on the toxic characters in the far right.

That just doesn't come across very well.

104 ssn697  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:35:46am

re: #101 AJStrata

My two cents

"When he departed ‘the right’ he sadly turned his back on a lot of good people (Inhofe comes to mind)"

Inhofe is one of the "good" people?

105 AK-47%  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:37:04am

I missed the "why I abandoned the Right" thread last night, or i would have added that I agree with their notion that young people should assume responsibility for their own reproductinve systems.

But in order to do so, they need to be given information than goes beyond Abstinence Only.

I agree with Jefferson's notion that "the government is best which governs least", but that does not mean that the ideal government is the one that does not govern at all.

That seems to be a major theme in Right-Wing circles.

Except for Defense, in which the government is not even supposed to make the effort to audit or check its spending, just keep issuing no-bid, cost-plus contracts...

106 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:37:50am

re: #104 ssn697

To someone who has swallowed Inhofe's deceit hook, line, and sinker... I suppose.

107 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:39:17am

re: #101 AJStrata

The comments left on your posting pretty much reinforce the reasons that Charles has been alluding to or openly stating for some time now. It's interesting that Charles' postings about climate change are now considered anti-science, even if Charles is posting the science to back up his position, and taking offense with those who claim that there is no science backing up global warming or climate change or whatever they're calling it these days (speaking of which, how many days before we are beyond the point of no return as UK's Gordon Brown proclaimed not too long ago).

Then, there's the issue of creationism and ID and their place in science classrooms, along with the proliferation of Republicans who are pushing for ID in the science classroom alongside evolution, even though ID is a religious idea at its core, and has no place in a science classroom.

108 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:41:19am

re: #78 Sharmuta

Three of the five major foundations that support the kooks with funding were founded by Birchers. They've had 20 years to build it, and it's show time.

Unfortunately, no one on the right remains to speak against them.

With Buckley's death, the floodgates opened.

109 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:42:04am

re: #101 AJStrata

I'm not bitter and I'm not angry. Just finished with the hatred, fed up with the anger, and not interested in being associated with it any more.

And the idea that James Inhofe -- a Dominionist fanatic -- is a "reasonable" person? Well, I couldn't possibly disagree more.

110 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:42:32am

re: #107 lawhawk

"[...] speaking of which, how many days before we are beyond the point of no return as UK's Gordon Brown proclaimed not too long ago [...]"

I'm sorry, but however good the science behind AGW may be, it's not good enough to narrow that question down to a matter of days.

Or months.

Or even years.

Such talk is part of the hysteria-building agenda, not the science.

111 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:45:21am

re: #110 Cato the Elder

Indeed. There's all too many hysterics running around these days - on AGW and any number of other issues.

112 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:47:43am

re: #110 Cato the Elder

I'm sorry, but however good the science behind AGW may be, it's not good enough to narrow that question down to a matter of days.

Or months.

Or even years.

Such talk is part of the hysteria-building agenda, not the science.

Good Lawdy...I could give you infinite updings on that if allowed.

113 avanti  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:50:01am

re: #39 trendsurfer

It's also linked from the front page of Huffington Post.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

This comment from there seems to sum it up for me.


"I have been very leery of only reading things that I agree with, so I started reading LGF. Quite a few of the commenters lean hard right, but there are people from all over the spectrum. It's a very intelligent blog."

114 subsailor68  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:51:13am

Sigh. This is not the way to run a war.

Administration outlines Afghan war endgame

Official: U.S. troops will start leaving region 'well before' end of first term

Dateline: Washington. March 1, 1944

"In his first press conference in over three months, President Roosevelt today announced the massive buildup of troops in England. 'Sometime between the 5th and 7th of June,' the president said, 'expect to see a huge application of Allied force somewhere along the Normandy coast. Of course, it wouldn't be prudent to get into specifics, but I can say with certainty that it won't be anywhere near Calais.'

"When asked about the tremendous cost associated with an operation this size, the president merely smiled. 'Bob', he winked, 'all those tanks, trucks, cannons, and equipment you see there in Southwest England. They're not real! They're plywood. Didn't cost us hardly anything, but sure should fool the Germans!"

Good grief.

115 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:51:43am

Wow, up to 163,000 page views already and it isn't even noon yet...

D'ose hamsters better ha'been feeded extra good...

116 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:51:47am

Speaking of Andrew Sullivan, I think this mini-brouhaha between him and Charles Krauthammer is a perfect example of just how unpleasant most conservative pundits/bloggers have become. Sullivan used a Krauthammer post completely out of context - by accident - and misinterpreted his position. Here's his apology:

A Correction and An Apology

And it's a most embarrassing one. I completely misread the date on one of Charles Krauthammer's columns on climate change and he rightly excoriates me for the error. I'm not sure how it happened, but I assumed, I think, that a piece sent to me in response to the climategate issue was current and didn't check the date. It makes the post largely moot.

I was wrong in inferring any shift of Krauthammer's position under Obama; and I apologize to Krauthammer and my readers for both the mistake and the unfair inference.

Now here's some of Krauthammer's 'rightful excoriation' of Sullivan:

Sullivan’s post merits reading as the quintessential Sullivan, leaping from nonexistent fact to blanket ad hominem without even a pause for a reality check.

So, because he made a non-malicious mistake which he later corrected, it's suddenly typical of Andrew Sullivan to use personal attacks and not bother to fact-check - which is blanket ad hominem itself. Not that Krauthammer will see any irony there.

117 Neutral President  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:52:36am

re: #95 Cato the Elder

Not particular sure I'm comfortable with Sully's wording of this:

I cannot support a movement that believes that the United States should be the sole global power, should sustain a permanent war machine to police the entire planet, and sees violence as the core tool for international relations.

Sounds like his trying to hint at abandoning Afghanistan and Iraq in almost Paulian sounding rhetoric. I do not believe that US foreign policy under Bush or any future GOP administration, even any of the aforementioned right-wing kooks, would be 'shoot first and ask questions never' as he is implying. That sounds like Code Pink talking points. As for the sole global power thing, agreed, as long as the major global "powers" are basically equal and not constantly engaging in nuclear brinkmanship.

118 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:56:28am

From the statistics:

Now Online: 4,588
Logged in: 112

I wonder what would happen if registration were to open?

119 leon77  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:57:08am

With you 100%. I thought BDS was crazy, and I think ODS is crazy, too...weird how quickly the craziness flipped over to the other side.

120 Neutral President  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:58:08am

re: #118 freetoken

From the statistics:

Now Online: 4,588
Logged in: 112

I wonder what would happen if registration were to open?

"Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light."

"Total protonic reversal..."

121 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:58:51am

(Reposted from the dead thread, because my timing stunk)
===
I've been thinking about the case of the State Dinner crashers and there is something that has bugged me since the first time I heard the story. Is it possible that political correctness played a part in this? We know that our POTUS has taken great pains to show the muslim world that he is a good guy and sensitive to "islamophobia." And the last name of the seemingly legitimate couple was "Salahi," which does sound arabic or middle eastern. So is it possible that "PC sensitivities" played a role in the POTUS' staff NOT wanting to put up any "roadblocks" to their entrance, lest the staff be tainted by "humiliating" a prominent couple of arab or muslim descent? Has anyone else wondered about this? Because if it DID play a part in any way, the POTUS (and the country) need to know. And President Obama may have dodged a bullet, literally.

122 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:59:05am

re: #117 ArchangelMichael

Sully does have very strong libertarian leanings. But he's not calling for Paulian isolationism. He's calling for a change in attitude if anything - for conservatives to stop thinking that diplomacy sucks and invading other countries is the only answer to a potential threat.

123 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:59:14am

re: #119 leon77

With you 100%. I thought BDS was crazy, and I think ODS is crazy, too...weird how quickly the craziness flipped over to the other side.

I don't think it's a matter of the craziness flipping from one side to the other. The craziness is always there on both sides, it's just a matter of where the spotlight is being shone.

124 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:00:16pm

re: #118 freetoken

From the statistics:

Now Online: 4,588
Logged in: 112

I wonder what would happen if registration were to open?

It's going down now -- we were close to 7000 people online at one point.

I'm going to reenable the auto-updating features now...

And I'm going to open registration soon.

125 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:01:33pm

How to be Wingnut Blogger™ in 7 easy steps.

1. Lift arms to height of chest.
2. Create fists on each hand and position each fist accordingly with chest.
3. Take right fist and hit the right side of your chest.
4. Return right fist to level position with right side of chest.
5. Take left fist and hit the left side of your chest.
6. Return left fist to level position with left side of chest.
7. Repeat steps 3 through 6 with increasing speed.

You have now learned the Chest Beating Method of Blogging™

Tomorrow we learn Denial Tactics™ and Projection™.

//

126 avanti  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:01:39pm

re: #124 Charles


And I'm going to open registration soon.

That should be entertaining.

127 drcordell  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:01:50pm

re: #122 Merryweather

Sully does have very strong libertarian leanings. But he's not calling for Paulian isolationism. He's calling for a change in attitude if anything - for conservatives to stop thinking that diplomacy sucks and invading other countries is the only answer to a potential threat.

Agreed. I've always wondered that myself. If I recalled correctly Conservatives used to err on the side of caution when considering American intervention into foreign problems. Now if we don't immediately invade, it's a "sign of weakness."

128 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:01:57pm

re: #119 leon77

With you 100%. I thought BDS was crazy, and I think ODS is crazy, too...weird how quickly the craziness flipped over to the other side.

Malkin and Hot Air have been major forces driving the adoption of this dreck. Their theory is "It worked for the Left; we'll make it work for us, too!" and they're trying to outdo even the most wretched excesses of the Left over the previous eight years as part of a "strategy" of some sort.

The fact that the Left, while employing such tactics, lost election after election that they certainly should have won, and didn't start winning elections again until they shoved the loons in the closet, seems to be invisible to HA and Malkin. Elections are won by winning the middle, and bilge like this drives the middle away.

129 Diane  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:03:44pm

"It’s been brewing in my cortex for years, and something triggered the release; exactly what, I don’t really know. Guess it was time."

It's amazing what the brain can do when you let it work and get some sleep!

---
Years ago, I parted from the extreme left which is still fashionable in my neck of the woods but I've always rejected the extreme right "emotional none-thinking" which is a symptom of any group thinking reaching an extreme, I imagine. The center may feel lonely... yet, I bet the majority of simple and common sense thinkers are hanging out just there.

130 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:04:03pm

re: #125 Gus 802

Far too complicated for the average wingnut. They can barely walk and chew gum at the same time. All that left/right stuff will make their heads explode.

131 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:04:58pm

I think it might have something to do with the global warming e-mails issue. A lot of the Right Wing Noise Machine® (I can't believe I just used that phrase!) is already mobilized. The AGW e-mails thread at Bad Astronomy was completely spooged on by a mass of anti-warming types yesterday. There's a lot of cross-pollination between both targets and attackers, so IMO it's just a matter of switching targets.

Of course when the lefties "grass roots" all over something, you can usually trace it back to some sort of internet media company. I wonder who's paying for the spam efforts on the other side?

132 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:05:25pm

re: #124 Charles

And I'm going to open registration soon.

When I get back from the gym I'll see what's the flood left ...

27 seconds. My estimation for how long after the open registration occurs until the first sock.

133 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:06:53pm

re: #116 Merryweather

Speaking of Andrew Sullivan, I think this mini-brouhaha between him and Charles Krauthammer is a perfect example of just how unpleasant most conservative pundits/bloggers have become. Sullivan used a Krauthammer post completely out of context - by accident - and misinterpreted his position. Here's his apology:

So, because he made a non-malicious mistake which he later corrected, it's suddenly typical of Andrew Sullivan to use personal attacks and not bother to fact-check - which is blanket ad hominem itself. Not that Krauthammer will see any irony there.

So Krauthammer should have kept his mouth shut hoping that sully would notice his error on his own? It's "malicious" to defend a stance you've had for almost 30 years regardless of which political party is in power? Not to be rude, but that's loony.

134 webevintage  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:07:01pm

re: #33 BlackFedora

Its probably bad that I wouldn't mind seeing a post with some excerpts from some of the more entertaining pieces of hate mail...

translated into LOL.
How awesome would that be?

"Y HALO THAR CHARLEZ
U R COMMIE TRAITOR HOO HATEZ AMERICA!
AN TEH TROOPS!!!
I BET U R GHEY AN FINKZ PELOSI IZ HAWT.
IM GONNA NEVR READ UR SIET AGAIN.
CEILIN CAT BLES U"

135 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:08:15pm

re: #134 webevintage
Srsly!

136 Idle Drifter  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:08:32pm

re: #132 freetoken

When I get back from the gym I'll see what's the flood left ...

27 seconds. My estimation for how long after the open registration occurs until the first sock.

I'll get the rubber waders out...

137 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:08:48pm

re: #131 Pawn of the Oppressor

There are many zealous, true believing "right wingers" out there who really don't need the organization/funding that many so called left groups seem to prefer.

Ironic, really. The right-o-sphere will rant ad naseum about how the leftists don't want to work and want everything for free, then the right-nuts spend hundreds of hours of their own time working proxy, pro-bono, for large corporations and multi-million dollar pundits (e.g., Limbaugh.)

138 GreenSoccer  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:09:40pm

You'll come back.

139 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:10:23pm
so far the server hamsters are keeping up with the demand, running their furry little butts off in their little wheels

Maybe you need some Zhu Zhu Hamsters?

140 yoshicastmaster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:10:26pm

Charles

I suppose you're used to the hate mail generated by using reason to confront those that cling to dogma. But I can't imagine that makes it all too much easier to shrug off the personal attacks.

Just remember that they are the reason we need to remain passionate and engaged. What drives our agenda is the desire to change minds, not just condemn minds.

Cheers

141 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:11:38pm

re: #133 RogueOne

I don't disagree with you there, Krauthammer had every right to call Sullivan out on his mistake, and it's good he did. I just think it's rich of him to have a go at Sullivan for 'ad hominem' attacks by using...ad hominem attacks. Krauthammer still hasn't updated his post to note Sullivan's apology, btw.

142 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:13:40pm

Going back to the end of the big big "why I parted ways" thread and there's like three dozen deletions! Did the crazies spill their walnuts all over the blog or something?

143 drcordell  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:13:40pm

re: #141 Merryweather

I don't disagree with you there, Krauthammer had every right to call Sullivan out on his mistake, and it's good he did. I just think it's rich of him to have a go at Sullivan for 'ad hominem' attacks by using...ad hominem attacks. Krauthammer still hasn't updated his post to note Sullivan's apology, btw.

Mr. Krauthammer, please stand up to be recognized.

/

144 yoshicastmaster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:14:20pm

re: #120 ArchangelMichael

I'd upvote your post for the ghostbusters quotes, but haven't posted the minimum 50 times yet myself. what a crime...

145 bosforus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:15:01pm

re: #67 Cato the Elder

Ooh, look! There's hope for the GOP after all.

Zombie Reagan Raised From Grave To Lead GOP

A short story that I just finished listening to this morning comes to mind. It's a classic horror story of grave robbers seeking fresh bodies in an attempt to bring them back to life. Lights off for maximum listening pleasure. Total listen time - about an hour and a half.

Herbert West: Reanimator
by H.P. Lovecraft
Part A


Part B
146 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:15:10pm

re: #136 Idle Drifter

I'll get the rubber waders out...

I'm going to submerge myself like Captain Willard in Apocalypse Now.

147 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:15:57pm

re: #141 Merryweather

I don't disagree with you there, Krauthammer had every right to call Sullivan out on his mistake, and it's good he did. I just think it's rich of him to have a go at Sullivan for 'ad hominem' attacks by using...ad hominem attacks. Krauthammer still hasn't updated his post to note Sullivan's apology, btw.

Then let me apologize for calling your argument loony. Sully mistakenly used an old article to impugn Krauthammers intellectual honesty and his journalistic integrity. I'd be pissed too. Sully manned up to his mistake and apologized, I'd expect Krauthammer to let it drop unless this isn't the first time it's happened.

148 SteveC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:15:58pm
They’re starting to give me dirty looks, but I’m sending Stinky Beaumont around with chocolate bars and vitamin water.

Damn, Charles, any job openings at LGF?

149 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:16:07pm

re: #142 WindUpBird

Going back to the end of the big big "why I parted ways" thread and there's like three dozen deletions! Did the crazies spill their walnuts all over the blog or something?

They sure did.

150 SteveC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:17:40pm

re: #142 WindUpBird

Going back to the end of the big big "why I parted ways" thread and there's like three dozen deletions! Did the crazies spill their walnuts all over the blog or something?

re: #149 Charles

They sure did.

Like they say over at FARK when the website goes down, "Someone spilled beer on the server!"

151 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:18:13pm

I was never a member of the hard right. I'm a right of center independent. But there are very few pundits on the left whose opinions I respect. On the other hand, there are voices on the right like Krauthammer and Victor Davis Hanson whom I greatly admire. So I will ask all of you this question: "Who are the sane ones on the left that you respect?" David Ignatius seems pretty sane to me, but who else is? Who on the left deserves our respect?

152 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:19:55pm

re: #107 lawhawk

The comments left on your posting pretty much reinforce the reasons that Charles has been alluding to or openly stating for some time now. It's interesting that Charles' postings about climate change are now considered anti-science, even if Charles is posting the science to back up his position, and taking offense with those who claim that there is no science backing up global warming or climate change or whatever they're calling it these days (speaking of which, how many days before we are beyond the point of no return as UK's Gordon Brown proclaimed not too long ago).

Then, there's the issue of creationism and ID and their place in science classrooms, along with the proliferation of Republicans who are pushing for ID in the science classroom alongside evolution, even though ID is a religious idea at its core, and has no place in a science classroom.

The difficulty is that "points of no return" are difficult to identify, even as one passes through them. For instance, has an annual melt of much of the polar icecap now become inevitable, so that there will be regularly a "Northwest Passage" in August and September? We won't know until we've seen it happen 8 years out of 10 or more, for decades.

Has the melting of much of the Greenland icecap become inevitable? What's "inevitable" mean, anyhow? Does it mean inevitable absent some sharp drop in world atmospheric CO2 levels? (Something we have no idea how to cause). Inevitable absent some sudden cessation of further additions to the current CO2 inventory? (Something we aren't going to do, because we want interim electricity while we build our wind, solar and nuclear) Does it mean inevitable absent some affordable but challenging program to gradually reduce emissions?

If that icecap does melt, along with the multi-year ice of the arctic sea, does that carry us past any further tipping points? Earth's Northern hemisphere summer albedo would be reduced, but how much further warming would ensue? We don't understand the various feedbacks well enough to say. We don't know enough about how much methane is available in what we used to call "perma"frost, or about how fast it might be released.

This makes the potential slow-motion train wreck of AGW tough to do anything about. Nobody can give credible dire warnings, with time and date stamps. Just vague forebodings that however this works out in detail, it isn't likely to be pretty.

153 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:20:00pm

Bulletin from the CDC and NIH:

ER docs puzzled by sudden outbreak of rump pain

(Washington, Dec. 1, 2009)

Emergency-room staff from around the country, already overwhelmed with uninsured Americans and people showing flu symptoms, have today raised the alarm over a sudden influx of patients complaining about mysterious symptoms in their hindquarters.

"We really don't know what to make of it", said Dr Maxine Gluteous of Johns Hopkins Hospital. "It started sometime last night, and the numbers are growing. It's actually rather funny, but we're under orders not to make jokes."

Sufferers, mostly male, white, and (rumor has it) with strikingly low academic achievements, complain - some doctors are using the term "whine" - about what they describe as persistent pain in their buttocks. Upon examination, doctors find the area to be red, hot, and tender.

"'Throbbing' is one of the words people are using most often to describe their distress", said Dr. Gluteous. "These people are definitely suffering. Though we do wish they'd stop whinging so much. There seems to be no real danger and it's apparently not contagious, at least not through contact with the patient. All we can do is give them some soothing cream to rub on the affected parts and send them home."

While most medical professionals see it as a harmless, if puzzling, phenomenon, others are not so sanguine. "Some folks seem to be affected mentally, as well", a nurse, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told this reporter. "A significant number of them mention some kind of 'lizards' being behind the pain in their behind. One guy was clearly a little unbalanced, mumbling something over and over about 'the lizard king'. We were glad to get rid of him."

Others, rumor has it, come to the ER and then complain about socialized medicine and "death panels" when they are not seen immediately. One man was arrested after pulling down his pants in the waiting room, pointing to his swollen, beet-red fundament, and shouting "This is what Obama's socialist coup has done to me!"

Dr Gluteous assures the public there is no reason to fear, but urges caution. "It's almost as if a certain segment of the population somehow got a vicious, simultaneous spanking from some unknown agent", she said.

A late check by this reporter seems to indicate that the number of cases is leveling off, but we will continue to monitor this situation closely.

154 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:21:54pm

re: #143 drcordell

Mr. Krauthammer, please stand up to be recognized.

/

Not really funny. Why is it ok to make this sort of comment about someone who is confined to a wheelchair, no matter what his politics are. What if you were forced to live you whole life in a wheelchair.

Really bad taste in my opinion.

155 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:11pm
156 funky chicken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:50pm

re: #65 Gus 802

As you note with the warning from Goldwater. They didn't listen and welcomed the extremist factions from the Religious-Right. There was a bit of an ebb during Gingrich's time. Even under Bush it was still toned down. Now it has returned with Dobson, Focus on the Family, etc. Making matter worse? They're now taking in the crazies from the Bachman and Paul camps as well as the Beck and Limbaugh Audiences. Even Alex Jones is playing a role in this mess that is the current version of the GOP.

Repeated themes I know.

Actually, I think it was Lee Atwater who started to bring in the religious kooks back during the Reagan administration. Reagan and Poppy Bush were willing to work a bit to get their votes but neither was ever very comfortable with them, IMHO. GW and Rove were the first big timers to wholeheartedly embrace the RR. They did it to beat John McCain in 2000 and cultivated them throughout W's administration (war spiralling out of control in Iraq, but the Rovians spending a week on "defending marriage" before elections, Terry Schiavo, abortion litmus tests for foreign aid, office of faith-based initiatives, Ted Haggard and then Rick Warren prominently displayed at bill signing ceremonies, Rick Warren's trip to Syria, etc, etc).

157 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:53pm

re: #155 Gus 802

Little Green Footballs breaks with right - LA Observed

That should get some traffic... incoming!

158 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:23:26pm

re: #145 bosforus

The movie version was pretty good. And disturbing and funny.

159 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:23:36pm

re: #155 Gus 802

Time for Open Registration!

160 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:28:35pm

re: #151 _RememberTonyC

I was never a member of the hard right. I'm a right of center independent. But there are very few pundits on the left whose opinions I respect. On the other hand, there are voices on the right like Krauthammer and Victor Davis Hanson whom I greatly admire. So I will ask all of you this question: "Who are the sane ones on the left that you respect?" David Ignatius seems pretty sane to me, but who else is? Who on the left deserves our respect?

Personally I'm a big Russ Feingold fan, not that he's a journalist but he is a "voice" imo. Also Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight.com is normally interesting and on point. I probably shouldn't mention Glen Greenwald as some folks here seem to dislike him and he can be a drama queen but I do enjoy reading his stuff on the regular.

161 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:30:54pm

re: #153 Cato the Elder

UPDATE: This reporter has just learned that the syndrome described above, while showing a massive upsurge in cases over the last 18 hours or so, has been getting attention from medical personnel for some time now. It even has a name that has begun to circulate among doctors and nurses: "butthurt". It may or may not be an acronym.

162 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:32:08pm

re: #155 Gus 802

"Where were you when Little Green Footballs broke from the right?"

163 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:32:40pm

Losing my connection on and off.

164 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:33:27pm

re: #160 Locker

Personally I'm a big Russ Feingold fan, not that he's a journalist but he is a "voice" imo. Also Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight.com is normally interesting and on point. I probably shouldn't mention Glen Greenwald as some folks here seem to dislike him and he can be a drama queen but I do enjoy reading his stuff on the regular.

thanks ... Greenwald has been bashed by Charles in the past, but Feingold and McCain worked together and I'll check out Silver.

165 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:34:13pm

re: #151 _RememberTonyC

I don't always agree with these, but I read them regularly;

Steve Benen at the Washington Monthly
The Washington Independent
American Prospect
Glen Greenwald at Salon
Ta-Nehisi Coates at the Atlantic

166 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:34:24pm

re: #147 RogueOne

Apology accepted. But yes, to be fair, Sullivan's original post was not exactly charming either.

167 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:35:11pm

re: #165 Jeff In Ohio

I don't always agree with these, but I read them regularly;

Steve Benen at the Washington Monthly
The Washington Independent
American Prospect
Glen Greenwald at Salon
Ta-Nehisi Coates at the Atlantic


thanks Jeff

168 avanti  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:38:08pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

That should get some traffic... incoming!

I could not get on for a few minutes, too much traffic.

169 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:38:12pm

Whoa, LGF's slowed right down now. Is it going to be able to bear the huge surge in traffic for long?

170 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:38:24pm

[Link: www.boingboing.net...]

Apparently, extremely altruistic people and sociopaths have surprisingly similar character traits. This according to an analysis at the Institute for Ethics & Emerging Technologies IEET) of new research (PDF paper) by University of Iowa psychologists. Here are the traits summarized by Andrea Kuszewski in her Rogue Neuron" column at IEET:

They're right, I'll let you guys figure out on your own which one I am...

171 drcordell  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:39:04pm

re: #167 _RememberTonyC

thanks Jeff

I second Glenn Greenwald many, many times over. Although I might hesitate to even classify him as either "left" or "right". He has no problem attacking anyone, (R) or (D) as long as they are acting in ways that he deems unconstitutional. Possibly one of the best bloggers on the web today IMHO.

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:39:48pm

re: #93 freetoken

You can't withhold federal funding from some group just because you don't like them.

What if I really, really don't like them?

173 bosforus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:40:06pm

re: #155 Gus 802

Little Green Footballs breaks with right - LA Observed

Hmmm, Charles' title is past tense "parted". This title puts it in the present tense. At least the author of that article admitted to not having been following lgf for some time but seriously, it's not like this happened overnight.

174 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:40:11pm

re: #139 SixDegrees

Maybe you need some Zhu Zhu Hamsters?

Over here they are GO GO Hamsters... America Zhu Zhu...Asia, Go Go...

Go figure...Grass is always greener or something?

175 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:40:47pm

re: #171 drcordell

I second Glenn Greenwald many, many times over. Although I might hesitate to even classify him as either "left" or "right". He has no problem attacking anyone, (R) or (D) as long as they are acting in ways that he deems unconstitutional. Possibly one of the best bloggers on the web today IMHO.

'Tis pity he's also the original sock puppet, logging on under phony names to buttress his own point of view in comments sections.

He has no credibility with me.

176 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:40:53pm

The afternoon crowd is checking in... the hamsters really need a pay raise.

In other news, put this in the links:

Professor Phil Jones has today announced that he will stand aside as Director of the Climatic Research Unit until the completion of an independent Review resulting from allegations following the hacking and publication of emails from the Unit.

The link is quite informative, though the deniers will have none of it, I suppose.

177 bosforus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:41:52pm

re: #158 Mad Al-Jaffee

The movie version was pretty good. And disturbing and funny.

I haven't seen the movie version. I've seen "movie versions" of this kind of story, but not this one specifically. Guess I'll have to check it out.

178 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:43:21pm

re: #177 bosforus

I haven't seen the movie version. I've seen "movie versions" of this kind of story, but not this one specifically. Guess I'll have to check it out.

First one was the best. The series went down hill with each sequel.

179 irish rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:43:25pm

The last march of the angry and intolerant, round two.

180 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:43:30pm

re: #173 bosforus

Hmmm, Charles' title is past tense "parted". This title puts it in the present tense. At least the author of that article admitted to not having been following lgf for some time but seriously, it's not like this happened overnight.

That's why I'm having a hard time getting my head round why this is such huge news.

181 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:43:36pm

re: #165 Jeff In Ohio

Nice one Jeff, I'm also a fan of The Washington Independent.

I also read thinkprogress.org, americanprogress.org and theplumline.whorunsgov.com. I would also like to recommend, although it's not a left site, physorg.com as they have a great site dedicated to science, physics, tech, nano, etc. If there is news in science, it's on physorg.com.

182 drcordell  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:43:45pm

re: #175 Cato the Elder

'Tis pity he's also the original sock puppet, logging on under phony names to buttress his own point of view in comments sections.

He has no credibility with me.

Really? I have heard nothing of this before. He did this on LGF or other websites? Care to post me a few links to peruse?

183 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:44:13pm

re: #180 Merryweather

That's why I'm having a hard time getting my head round why this is such huge news.

It's news because it's in manifesto form, and Charles meant it as a definitive statement.

184 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:44:19pm

re: #171 drcordell

You trying to bolster Socky McSockpuppet? Sorry, but that doesn't fly. Greenwald tried to support his positions with sockpuppets. He got called on the carpet for it.

185 Cineaste  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:45:10pm

re: #124 Charles

And I'm going to open registration soon.

Oooh, ooh! Let me get my video camera - this is going to be a flounce-a-thon!

186 nogendavid  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:45:40pm

On my continuing point of dissent - that scepticism about climate warming projections and its causes - is a reasonable position, not necessarily the product of faith based reasoning, industry shilling,
or political animus,

Lindzen, "The climate science isn't settled", Wall Street Journal, November 30.

187 Baier  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:46:01pm

Poor hamsters.

188 Cineaste  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:46:24pm

re: #180 Merryweather

That's why I'm having a hard time getting my head round why this is such huge news.

Well it's not always the idea that is revolutionary, it's when the right person says it in the right words at the right time. The zeitgeist is a finicky beast.

189 irish rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:46:26pm

re: #161 Cato the Elder

The "butthurt" stuff is getting a little old, my two cents.

190 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:46:29pm

re: #182 drcordell

[Link: www.outsidethebeltway.com...]

191 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:46:46pm

re: #183 Cato the Elder

It's news because it's in manifesto form

Does that mean we can hold rallies in matching uniforms chanting "Little Green Blog Post"?

//

192 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:47:14pm

re: #182 drcordell

He did it on his own site, and several others. He even spawned a classic Wuzzadem. The whole mess started during the summer of 2006, when he posted with sockpuppets on multiple sites.

193 Cineaste  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:47:40pm

re: #186 nogendavid

On my continuing point of dissent - that scepticism about climate warming projections and its causes - is a reasonable position, not necessarily the product of faith based reasoning, industry shilling,
or political animus,

Lindzen, "The climate science isn't settled", Wall Street Journal, November 30.

I think the problem is that most "skeptics" don't offer any reasonable counterfactual information. They cry about the data and the reports but I haven't seen much by way of rigorous research.

194 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:48:09pm

re: #182 drcordell

Really? I have heard nothing of this before. He did this on LGF or other websites? Care to post me a few links to peruse?

Seek no further.

195 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:51:31pm

Well, I can tell its winter now. My throat feels like its coated in molasses and I'm coughing all the time with nothing coming up. I can expect this for the next 5 months.

196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:51:53pm

This forum (LGF) has helped me to evolve, and I still LIKE ME!

Thanks Charles.

197 bosforus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:52:28pm

re: #193 Cineaste

I think the problem is that most "skeptics" don't offer any reasonable counterfactual information. They cry about the data and the reports but I haven't seen much by way of rigorous research.

I think that's the point of skepticism though. One party presents data with an interpretation, another party disagrees with the interpretation. The data already exists. Data cannot be changed or challenged, it is what it is. Understanding of the data is the issue.

198 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:53:31pm

Sarah Palin Stars as Heroine in New Children's Book

While Sarah Palin is certainly making waves with her own best-selling book “Going Rogue,” the former governor and vice presidential candidate is also in the spotlight with a cameo appearance as a heroine in the recently released children’s book “Help! Mom! Radicals Are Ruining My Country!”

In the book written by Katharine DeBrecht, “Governor Sarah” (a character based on Palin) attempts to help two young boys hold onto their dream of a swing-set business which is struggling as a result of high taxes, heavy regulations and 246 czars.

“I am trying to let all Americans know that these radicals are killing the American Dream and I want to stop them from hurting people that produce products and provide jobs,” the Palin character consoles the frustrated boys after their business is destroyed by “Marxus Obunduf” who is based on President Obama.

It's not a spoof. Here's the book on Amazon: Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed! (Hardcover)

199 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:53:36pm

re: #187 Baier

Poor hamsters.

Has anyone informed PETA yet?

200 bosforus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:54:10pm

re: #197 bosforus

Correct data cannot be changed or challenged

I should probably put that word in there. ;)

201 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:55:05pm

Charles:

Any chance of a mail thread?

202 drcordell  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:55:49pm

re: #192 lawhawk

He did it on his own site, and several others. He even spawned a classic Wuzzadem. The whole mess started during the summer of 2006, when he posted with sockpuppets on multiple sites.

Huh... that's unfortunate he had to resort to such idiocy. Especially considering his blog at Salon is usually quite on point. I'm disappointed, but I don't think that his sock-puppetry necessarily invalidates many of the legitimate points he raises in his blog posts. Certainly doesn't make him look good either.

203 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:55:53pm

re: #196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This forum (LGF) has helped me to evolve, and I still LIKE ME!

Thanks Charles.

What a coincidence, I like you too!

204 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:55:57pm

re: #171 drcordell

I second Glenn Greenwald many, many times over.

He has already done that himself, many, many times over.

205 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:56:07pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout


And with a moral in every children’s story, the boys learn that it is “mean” to spread rumors about people and that Governor Sarah “seems like a nice lady” and thus feel for a really nice girl in their class who is running for student council and bound to be the victim of malicious and untrue gossip.

“In this Internet age, we need to let our kids know that it is wrong to spread rumors and lies,” DeBrecht explained. “Unfortunately, many so-called journalists have basically told children that this is permissible as long as you disagree with someone’s opinions. Our kids deserve better than the shameful example that has been set before them. What message does this send to little girls who may want to enter the political arena? Don’t you dare lest you be Palinized?”


Lol!

206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:56:45pm

re: #195 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Lay off the dairy. It'll help, I promise.

207 Cineaste  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:56:49pm

re: #197 bosforus

I think that's the point of skepticism though. One party presents data with an interpretation, another party disagrees with the interpretation. The data already exists. Data cannot be changed or challenged, it is what it is. Understanding of the data is the issue.

Perhaps I misstated then. Most skeptics don't present reasonable counter analysis based in data. They seldom bring arguments that stand up to even the most basic of scrutiny and when you do point to data, they generally start in with whack-a-mole style arguments.

208 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:57:27pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Sarah Palin Stars as Heroine in New Children's Book

It's not a spoof. Here's the book on Amazon: Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed! (Hardcover)

OMFG... I'm dying. I think I know what to buy my rightwing bosses little boy for Xmas.

209 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:57:37pm

re: #201 Irish Rose

OoOoOoOoOoOhHhHhHh! Yeah! Woo hoo!

210 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:57:46pm

re: #199 freetoken

Has anyone informed PETA yet?

They're busy calling the Gullible Talent Agency to line up some pretty actress to take her clothes off at this very moment.

211 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:58:01pm

re: #190 Jeff In Ohio

[Link: www.outsidethebeltway.com...]

That link has quotes from Reihl (sp? not going back) and that Ace guy. I'll check the next links posted.

212 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:58:22pm

re: #206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Lay off the dairy. It'll help, I promise.

Haven't had dairy in days.

213 McSpiff  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:58:30pm

OT, but very cool for science geeks: [Link: trailblazing.royalsociety.org...]

214 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:58:40pm

re: #203 Irish Rose

Aw, Shucks.
*blushing, kicking up dust*
*batting eyes*

215 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:58:58pm

re: #210 CyanSnowHawk

They're busy calling the Gullible Talent Agency to line up some pretty actress to take her clothes off at this very moment.

As if the hamsters would object...

216 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:59:00pm

re: #176 freetoken

The afternoon crowd is checking in... the hamsters really need a pay raise.

In other news, put this in the links:

Professor Phil Jones has today announced that he will stand aside as Director of the Climatic Research Unit until the completion of an independent Review resulting from allegations following the hacking and publication of emails from the Unit.

The link is quite informative, though the deniers will have none of it, I suppose.

Smart move on his part.

217 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:59:17pm

re: #196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This forum (LGF) has helped me to evolve, and I still LIKE ME!

Thanks Charles.

I'm still a knuckle dragger and proud of it. I'm just a little smarter knuckle dragger than I was.

218 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:59:29pm

re: #208 marjoriemoon

Glenn Beck has a children's book out now too.

219 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:59:40pm

re: #211 Stanley Sea

That link has quotes from Reihl (sp? not going back) and that Ace guy. I'll check the next links posted.

Ace runs a cesspit, don't forget yer wellies.

220 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:59:46pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Sarah Palin Stars as Heroine in New Children's Book

While Sarah Palin is certainly making waves with her own best-selling book “Going Rogue,” the former governor and vice presidential candidate is also in the spotlight with a cameo appearance as a heroine in the recently released children’s book “Help! Mom! Radicals Are Ruining My Country!”

In the book written by Katharine DeBrecht, “Governor Sarah” (a character based on Palin) attempts to help two young boys hold onto their dream of a swing-set business which is struggling as a result of high taxes, heavy regulations and 246 czars.

“I am trying to let all Americans know that these radicals are killing the American Dream and I want to stop them from hurting people that produce products and provide jobs,” the Palin character consoles the frustrated boys after their business is destroyed by “Marxus Obunduf” who is based on President Obama.

INDOCTRINATION!

221 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:00:04pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck has a children's book out now too.

Beck IS A CHILDREN'S BOOK.

222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:00:08pm

re: #212 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Good man. You'll be less congested anyway.

223 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:01:06pm

re: #210 CyanSnowHawk

They're busy calling the Gullible Talent Agency to line up some pretty actress to take her clothes off at this very moment.

Thats a job I want. "Hey, I can see you're a cute chick. Can I get some pictures of you naked to help save this cute little puppy?"

224 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:02:13pm

re: #222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Good man. You'll be less congested anyway.

Not congested, I can breathe fine. I just go this crap tickling my throat which keeps making me cough, but never brings anything up.

225 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:02:26pm

re: #221 Walter L. Newton

Beck IS A CHILDREN'S BOOK.

My keyboard is now covered in coffee.

226 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:02:44pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck has a children's book out now too.

LOL Stop! I can't handle it!

Actually it looks like "Help Mom!" is a kinda series.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Very cute. Kinda like fractured fairytales.

227 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:03:27pm

re: #221 Walter L. Newton

Beck IS A CHILDREN'S BOOK.

I would trust a guy in a rusted out van with a bag of candy more than Beck when it come to being trusted with kids.

228 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:03:29pm

re: #226 marjoriemoon

LOL Stop! I can't handle it!

Actually it looks like "Help Mom!" is a kinda series.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Very cute. Kinda like fractured fairytales.

Like Captain Underpants?

229 bosforus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:03:33pm

re: #207 Cineaste

Nah, you didn't misstate. I knew what you were getting at.
:)

230 webevintage  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:04:37pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Sarah Palin Stars as Heroine in New Children's Book

It's not a spoof. Here's the book on Amazon: Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed! (Hardcover)

hahahahahaha
I'm getting that as a gag gift for my son, he will think it is a hoot along with the Three Wolf Moon shirt.

(I love to read the comments on Amazon sometimes)

231 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:05:34pm

re: #226 marjoriemoon

Ha! Normally I'd think they were parodies but they seem legit.

232 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:05:44pm

re: #223 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thats a job I want. "Hey, I can see you're a cute chick. Can I get some pictures of you naked to help save this cute little puppy?"

And therein lies the root of the conflict in how I feel about PETA. Extreme positions on animal rights vs. Naked models. It demonstrates how there can be a little good in the midst of evil.
/

233 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:05:54pm

re: #228 Alouette

Like Captain Underpants?

I had to look that up :p I didn't know that one! I don't have little people around (as immature as I may be).

234 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:05:56pm

re: #216 Walter L. Newton

Smart move on his part.

Yes... but it is unfortunate that he had to do it.

I remain with my original statement when the news of the emails broke: this is a tempest in a teapot.

The great irony of it, and I doubt the gnashers-of-teeth in the right-o-sphere realize this, but of the three independent temperature reconstructions (GISS, NCDC, CRU), it was the CRU's that was the most "conservative". That is, both the GISS and NCDC reconstructions, since they use information for the poles, describe the surface warming more accurately (IMO) but also show that it has been greater than the CRU reconstruction (by just a tiny bit.)

Oh well, a Scopes trial the US Chamber of Commerce wanted, and now their getting a public version of such.

235 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:06:07pm

Charles, you have the attention of Andrew Sullivan and David Frum! Thanks again for your hosting of LGF. A great community of bloggers with a wide variety of opinions. I'm happy to have a place to sound off, vent, and make the funny with an interesting bunch of folks.

236 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:07:12pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Sarah Palin Stars as Heroine in New Children's Book

It's not a spoof. Here's the book on Amazon: Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed! (Hardcover)

Indoctrination!

/

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:07:28pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck has a children's book out now too.

Yes, but his is so depressing that I almost started crying just reading the synopsis.

I think that he would have been a hit in the late nineteenth century.

238 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:07:56pm

re: #230 webevintage

(I love to read the comments on Amazon sometimes)


Heh, it seems most people are buying it as a gag gift.

239 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:08:20pm

re: #236 Gus 802

re: #220 Merryweather

Snap!

240 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:08:45pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Sarah Palin Stars as Heroine in New Children's Book


It's not a spoof. Here's the book on Amazon: Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed! (Hardcover)


I like the review ratings. It's either 5-star or 1-star, barely any in the middle. Political hacks going to town on children's book ratings at Amazon. That cracks me up.

241 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:08:46pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that he would have been a hit in the late nineteenth century.

Perhaps the middle of the 19th century, in Ohio, along with Joseph Smith. They could have co-authored a great book!

242 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:09:01pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

Ha! Normally I'd think they were parodies but they seem legit.

I don't know why I think it's so funny. It's definitely a bash on liberals, all these books, but what a clever way to do it! Eh, maybe if I actually read them I wouldn't think it so clever.

243 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:09:02pm

re: #239 Merryweather

re: #220 Merryweather

Snap!

Oligarhy!

/

244 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:09:57pm

re: #224 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not congested, I can breathe fine. I just go this crap tickling my throat which keeps making me cough, but never brings anything up.

Maybe you should have some dairy...

245 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:10:49pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but his is so depressing that I almost started crying just reading the synopsis.

I think that he would have been a hit in the late nineteenth century.

What is it, something like "The Poor Little Match Girl"?

Hans Anderson wrote some of the most shitass SCARY kids' books of all time. The illustrations by Artur Szyk gave me nightmares for years.

246 Slap  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:11:07pm

re: #151 _RememberTonyC

Granted, I haven't posted much yet, 'cept a coupla offhand comments. FWIW, I appreciate David Niewert's work at Orcinus ([Link: dneiwert.blogspot.com...] if only because he's grabbed the New Right's Hate Speech issue and continues to rip it. Is he lib? I believe he's worth a read or two.

247 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:11:07pm

re: #244 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Maybe you should have some dairy...

Got me some Zyrec, some Robitussin and a shit load of cough drops.

248 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:11:49pm

re: #177 bosforus

I haven't seen the movie version. I've seen "movie versions" of this kind of story, but not this one specifically. Guess I'll have to check it out.

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

Worth seeing for, among other things, Barbara Crampton. ;)

249 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:12:39pm

re: #234 freetoken

Yes... but it is unfortunate that he had to do it.

[snip]

No, now I don't think that, and I don't think this is a tempest in a teapot. And I am not talking about pro-agw or con-agw positions, I am talking about ethics, and I think there is a good chance that some of these chief climate scientist have lost sight of the scientific method and fallen in step with political, not science.

We will see, won't we?

250 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:12:42pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but his is so depressing that I almost started crying just reading the synopsis.

I think that he would have been a hit in the late nineteenth century.

Well, it does buck traditional tragedies in that everyone dies in the beginning.

251 brookly red  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:14:22pm

re: #224 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not congested, I can breathe fine. I just go this crap tickling my throat which keeps making me cough, but never brings anything up.

/it's called thirst, have a beer :)

252 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:14:38pm

Hey... is all the plans still a go for Dec. 2012?

253 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:15:00pm

re: #250 Merryweather

Whoops...I haven't spoilt things for anyone who was desperate to read The Christmas Sweater, have I? //

254 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:15:29pm

re: #250 Merryweather

Well, it does buck traditional tragedies in that everyone dies in the beginning.

The tragedy is it goes on for 284 pages.

255 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:15:41pm

re: #250 Merryweather

Well, it does buck traditional tragedies in that everyone dies in the beginning.


In movies, anyone that dies but is never seen on the screen died in a car accident.

256 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:18:24pm
257 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:18:28pm

OT:
The judge just declared a mistrial in Junior Gotti's latest trial. That's the fourth time in five years.

Faced with a hopelessly deadlocked jury, a federal judge declared a mistrial Tuesday in John A. (Junior) Gotti's fourth racketeering trial.

The jury, in its 11th fruitless day of deliberations, sent out its second note in three days announcing it was at a stalemate on all three charges against the now-Teflon Son.

Judge Kevin Castel then declared a mistrial in the 11-week old case, yet another stinging defeat for the government in its relentless pursuit of the second-generation mob boss.

258 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:19:06pm

re: #253 Merryweather

Whoops...I haven't spoilt things for anyone who was desperate to read The Christmas Sweater, have I? //

My friends got me a sweater once. All things considered, the screamer was a lot more fun.

259 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:20:25pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck has a children's book out now too.

Can a line of Mormon underwear and a men's fragrance be far behind?

"Eau de cul."

260 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:20:47pm

re: #256 constantconservative

And so the flouncing begins...

261 subsailor68  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:22:56pm

re: #255 Cannadian Club Akbar

In movies, anyone that dies but is never seen on the screen died in a car accident.

LOL! Except - Rebecca! (And I ain't gonna tell ya what really happened to her!)

262 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:23:49pm

re: #260 Merryweather

And so the flouncing begins...

Before Stinky pulled out the stick, I checked the flouncers vitals. 3 comments in a year.

263 last turnip  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:25:11pm

Being "right" or "left" is defined by a set of principles concerning individual rights and responsibilities and the role of government. It is not defined by a single issue, nor by a single personality or cult. I know conservatives who support abortion, and I know liberals who shoot guns on weekends. These people are right or left based on the fundamental beliefs that define the two positions. I do not think that the list of people/ideas under "why I broke..." defines the "right". Any more than a listing of controversial liberal personalities, cults, movements defines the "left". After this "break from the right" we know whom Charles loathes and which movements he despises. But has Charles thrown out all conservative principles?

264 Kragar  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:25:20pm

re: #261 subsailor68

LOL! Except - Rebecca! (And I ain't gonna tell ya what really happened to her!)

The tragic Sunnybrook Farms incident with the thresher?

265 NogenDavid  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:27:27pm

A respected professor at MIT provides a reasoned argument for skepticism, and the response is another round of automatic downdings, rather than addressing the substance of his argument? Says something about cheerleading for an orthodoxy, about the self-reinforcing and self-congratulatory nature of some blog commenting, and nothing about the merits of the issue.

Ignoring risks can be lethal, so can overestimating them. You dampen growth prematurely or excessively, you cause unnecessary suffering and death - and degradation of envirionment in other ways. High standards of living are associated with higher environmental standards.

So why not look at this as an exercise in rational risk management, and looks for areas of building consensus that are not dependent on agreement on controverted theories? I have longed agreed, for example, with self-proclaimed climate agnostic (and therefore what? junk scientist, industry dupe, beclowned bile belching bozo?) Charles Krauthammer about having gas taxes, and I don't need to have a definitive belief in any specific projection about global warming and its causes to do so. I can support for other reasons, such as promoting innovation in alternate energy and weakening the dependence of democracies on oil-peddling autocracies. I can oppose some green schemes also withoutbeing confident about the projects - the "trade" in cap and trade can be an invitation to fraud on a global scale if the traders are countries that are rife with corruption. I can accept the possibility of Co2 caused global warming, and ask whether some measures to reduce carbon omissions are a reasonable risk management measure in light of all of their costs and benefits.

Some have argued that LGF is committed to a meta-position - about the need for rational reporting and analysis, rather than fixed positions on issues like wealth distribution, role of government etc. That is a real service. But it is undermined, rather than advanced, by a trigger happy approach to typecasting participants or positions in the global warming debate.

266 subsailor68  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:27:36pm

re: #264 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The tragic Sunnybrook Farms incident with the thresher?

You spoiler!! Wheat really chaffs my ass is a thresher accident!

;-)

267 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:29:35pm

re: #245 Alouette

What is it, something like "The Poor Little Match Girl"?

Hans Anderson wrote some of the most shitass SCARY kids' books of all time. The illustrations by Artur Szyk gave me nightmares for years.

A little boy is unappreciative of a sweater his poor widowed mother makes him for Christmas, then loses her in a car accident. Sent to live with his grandparents, he lashes out at those around him, questions his faith, but is finally made to realize the deeper truths in life by a mysterious neighbor who may not be real.

Charles Dickens would have called it 'saccharine'.

268 bosforus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:30:34pm

re: #248 Mad Al-Jaffee

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

Looks like it deviates quite a bit. I have my doubts but it also looks like people enjoy this version.

269 last turnip  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:31:28pm

re: #265 NogenDavid
I agree with you. Trigger happy down dings and personal insults, rather than dealing with the issues rationally.

270 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:32:38pm

One for the Catch 'Em Being Good file: Ace slams Huckabee:

He's a chump, a rube, a simple-minded dupe. We don't know yet what his reasons for pardoning this particular possibly-oversentenced repeat felon are, but we know the long sordid history of his pardons: left-leaning pastors knew they only had to utter the magic words "Saved by the Grace of Christ" to Huckabee and there was a fair shot that hardened career criminals would get the Get out of Jail Free card they sought.

Can someone be this easily gulled, over and over, and yet be crafty and devious enough to defend America against a host of enemies and adversaries?

271 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:34:24pm

re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist

It's basically Glenn Beck's childhood. Clearly, he feels that every kid should feel as miserable as he did at Christmas.

272 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:34:58pm

re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist

A little boy is unappreciative of a sweater his poor widowed mother makes him for Christmas, then loses her in a car accident. Sent to live with his grandparents, he lashes out at those around him, questions his faith, but is finally made to realize the deeper truths in life by a mysterious neighbor who may not be real.

Charles Dickens would have called it 'saccharine'.

Did they have saccharine in Dickens' time?

Snopes would call it glurge.

273 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:38:49pm

re: #270 The Sanity Inspector

I'm not impressed. I'll give kudos to him for giving a well-deserved smackdown to Huckabee, but he just can't resist pinning the blame on the left while getting in a subtle 'liberals are soft on crime' jibe:

...left-leaning pastors knew they only had to utter the magic words "Saved by the Grace of Christ" to Huckabee and there was a fair shot that hardened career criminals would get the Get out of Jail Free card they sought.

274 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:39:32pm

OT:

I like this headline, though the story is sad and screwed up.

Drinking, evangelism precede Skamokawa shooting

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:42:59pm

re: #272 Alouette

Did they have saccharine in Dickens' time?

Snopes would call it glurge.

No, they did not have saccharine, but I feel that Dickens might have invented it on the spot, if exposed to the work of Glenn Beck.

/Thought of that once I'd posted it.

276 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:43:00pm

re: #273 Merryweather

I'm not impressed. I'll give kudos to him for giving a well-deserved smackdown to Huckabee, but he just can't resist pinning the blame on the left while getting in a subtle 'liberals are soft on crime' jibe:

Still, there is such a thing as "fair enough". Even after the object lesson that was the 70s crime surge, there are still plenty of dyed-in-the-hairshirt liberals out there who believe that crime is all society's fault.

277 bosforus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:45:34pm

re: #271 Merryweather

It's basically Glenn Beck's childhood. Clearly, he feels that every kid should feel as miserable as he did at Christmas.

You know the Glenn Beck motto, don't you? All things in moderation exaggeration.

278 kellygrrrl  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:48:14pm

Charles, congrats on the attention -- have seen many links to your piece across the blogosphere all day.

I sure do hope you intend to share a few of the juicier emails from both the far left and far right.

Jeebus, you'd think these folks have nothing else to talk about today

279 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:48:32pm

re: #211 Stanley Sea

After a google, that appeared as the less offensive site that had some documentation of Greenwald's spastic ego. I still read him for the content of his thinking and not the excesses of his ego.

280 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:50:38pm
281 nevets  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:50:55pm

Charles...

You have, over the years, performed a valuable service to humankind by hosting LGF. It has constantly evolved, as do all of us, depending on where we are at that specific time and how we internalize and relate to that information. And words... no matter how vulgar and course... DO NOT kill people... That's not to say that words don't have IMPACT...as you are constantly finding out.

Thanks for the information and the forum to discuss and argue with intelligent humans (most of the time)...

"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,...

...The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming

282 Merryweather  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:56:01pm

Stinky should be making another surprise appearance in this thread any second now.

283 martinsmithy  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:57:26pm

You've inspired an imitator: [Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

Although I note his list is longer and somewhat different than yours.

284 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:58:34pm

Saw that one coming.

285 The Mongoose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:59:08pm

You know, I think in times like these I'm lucky to be in Canada. Here I can believe in evolution, oppose theocracy, deplore racism, not give a rat's ass about gay marriage and STILL be considered deeply right-wing. Awesome.

286 martinsmithy  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:02:43pm

re: #283 martinsmithy
Never mind - it's old news now. I should have scrolled around!

287 webevintage  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:03:17pm

It may be time for the word "Alinsky" to have its own law like Goodwin's...

288 Neutral President  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:05:40pm

re: #287 webevintage

It may be time for the word "Alinsky" to have its own law like Goodwin's...

It was mildly amusing to see the kook-right call Charles a stooge of Alinsky when it is they themselves who have taken to adopting all of the man's rules for themselves.

289 martinsmithy  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:08:27pm

I love your list Charles - it's short and to the point - and devastating.

My only question is about point #9:

Anti-Islamic bigotry that goes far beyond simply criticizing radical Islam, into support for fascism, violence, and genocide (see: Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, etc.)

Do you consider that your views about Islam have moderated somewhat from several years ago? The reason I ask is that you had a lot more tolerance for some pretty radically anti-Islamic statements, including by yourself (I remember that the first time I ever looked in on LGF it was to a story where you asserted that the Hajj included elements of human sacrifice close to what the Aztecs practiced) than you do now on this blog.

And if you consider your views to have moderated, is there any event that caused this, or was it a gradual thing?

290 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:34:08pm

re: #289 martinsmithy

I love your list Charles - it's short and to the point - and devastating.

My only question is about point #9:

Anti-Islamic bigotry that goes far beyond simply criticizing radical Islam, into support for fascism, violence, and genocide (see: Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, etc.)

Do you consider that your views about Islam have moderated somewhat from several years ago? The reason I ask is that you had a lot more tolerance for some pretty radically anti-Islamic statements, including by yourself (I remember that the first time I ever looked in on LGF it was to a story where you asserted that the Hajj included elements of human sacrifice close to what the Aztecs practiced) than you do now on this blog.

And if you consider your views to have moderated, is there any event that caused this, or was it a gradual thing?

I have NEVER advocated violence, genocide, or expulsion of Muslims, and in fact I've banned dozens of people for doing that.

And I still believe that the Hajj stampedes -- which happened year after year, killing hundreds and even thousands of people each year, with no attempt to prevent them until very recently when they began to get news coverage -- had a resemblance to religious sacrifice. The Saudis have finally been embarrassed into taking preventive measures.

291 demzee  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:43:50pm

This is exactly what I have always wanted to see - a blog capable on calling out dangerous extremism of all kinds, not just that of the "left" or "right," if people will insist on arbitrary divisions. I'm not from America, but I think the kind of thinking Charles has displayed here is indicative of a wider paradigm shift in American politics. I sincerely hope to see schisms in both the Democratic and Republican parties soon - it could only help the country. The cracks are definitely showing.

292 St. Louisville Cards  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:48:31pm

I check out this blog a few times a week for the past couple years, so I can't say I have a huge grasp of Charles' politics. But my impression was that he was a moderate, who leaned left.
So I'm not sure what the fuss is about.

293 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:50:32pm

Here's an idea. Not a new one, I admid, but it might be viable. The start of a new third party has never been so close as these times. Start another rightwing party. A moderate rightwing party for all those lost souls outhere who cannot or will not identify with the current republican party. A party where there's no room for the religious right to dominate. A party which has a strict dividing line between government and God. A party where there's no room for conspiracy theories and where there's respect for the government, even though you don't agree with the way they are running the country.

Millions of people like Charles are left alone by the GOP. Starting another party will no doubt weaken the GOP. A lot of blood will flow from the GOP and it will make the Democratic party stronger. (In the same way Ralph Nader sucked blood from the Democratic party.) But at least it will make the GOP rethink their stratigy. If they want to rule the counrty they need to make compromises to a new Republican party to form a coalition in an effort to gain enough votes for a win.

Tell me I'm not ranting.

294 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:52:16pm

re: #287 webevintage

More people on the modern right seem to have read Alinsky than they have any Buckley or Goldwater... they have such a good grasp of one but not the other.

295 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:58:15pm

re: #293 William of Orange

The USA needs a managerial party of the centre ground.

There are moderate democrats embarrased by Pelosi and there are moderate republicans embarrased by Boenher - they would fit in the same party quite happily.

296 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:02:22pm

re: #295 wozzablog

I didn't see it that way but you do have a point! There are people disappointed on both sides.

297 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:13:33pm

re: #296 William of Orange


I'm thinking of a third party like Britains Liberal Democrats (bad choice of name to import to the US) - socially liberal but neoclassicaly liberal ecomnomically. Realistic tax proposals to balance the budget not focussed on tax cuts to extenbt of all else - but not enthrall to big Government either.

298 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:14:46pm
299 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:29:10pm

Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments. Now you can piss off.

300 ThomasLite  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:08:27pm

re: #293 William of Orange

Here's an idea. Not a new one, I admit, but it might be viable. The start of a new third party has never been so close as these times. Start another right-wing party. A moderate right-wing party for all those lost souls out here who cannot or will not identify with the current republican party. A party where there's no room for the religious right to dominate. A party which has a strict dividing line between government and God. A party where there's no room for conspiracy theories and where there's respect for the government, even though you don't agree with the way they are running the country.

Millions of people like Charles are left alone by the GOP. Starting another party will no doubt weaken the GOP. A lot of blood will flow from the GOP and it will make the Democratic party stronger. (In the same way Ralph Nader sucked blood from the Democratic party.) But at least it will make the GOP rethink their strategy. If they want to rule the country they need to make compromises to a new Republican party to form a coalition in an effort to gain enough votes for a win.

Tell me I'm not ranting.

nope, you're not ranting.
and actually, that party already exists, it's called the modern whig party. as they put it, they stand for "fiscal responsibility, a strong national defense and bold social progression".
it's only a recent initiative and I'm somewhat wary of it's future, but it's promising!

(by the way, you wouldn't happen to be a fellow dutchie would you?)

301 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:31:56pm

I think that flag is a dead givaway. :)

302 Soccermom  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:35:52pm

Charles, both the far left and the far right bore me to death. I haven't been interested in much that's been posted here lately, as there is so much focus on the fringe right. And they are the fringe, although the Internet helps both the nuts on the left and the right spew their hatred.

It's not good that Andrew Sullivan likes you now. He still thinks Sarah Palin, may she retire forever from politics, didn't have her own baby. I stopped reading him a long time ago.

I enjoyed this blog more after September 11th when you had really mainstream discussions and provided information not easily available. But, I'm really sick of reading about the birthers, nirthers, European whacks, etc.

303 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:18:32pm

re: #302 Soccermom

So you'll be taking a leave of absence from lgf again?

304 Soccermom  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:56:08pm

re: #303 eclectic infidel

Definitely NOT. I've never taken a leave of absence. I started reading Charles' blog before September 11, 2001. I check LGF several times every day. I don't post much, but I always read all the posting and many of the comments. Charles always posts something I never would have found, and the loyal commenters are always fun.

I'm just tired :) My biggest concern right now is the economy.

After my earlier posting, I read some of the hateful posts and they are hard to believe. Keep the faith, Charles.

305 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 6:49:20am

re: #153 Cato the Elder

Bulletin from the CDC and NIH:

ER docs puzzled by sudden outbreak of rump pain

(Washington, Dec. 1, 2009)

Emergency-room staff from around the country, already overwhelmed with uninsured Americans and people showing flu symptoms, have today raised the alarm over a sudden influx of patients complaining about mysterious symptoms in their hindquarters.

"We really don't know what to make of it", said Dr Maxine Gluteous of Johns Hopkins Hospital. "It started sometime last night, and the numbers are growing. It's actually rather funny, but we're under orders not to make jokes."

Sufferers, mostly male, white, and (rumor has it) with strikingly low academic achievements, complain - some doctors are using the term "whine" - about what they describe as persistent pain in their buttocks. Upon examination, doctors find the area to be red, hot, and tender.

"'Throbbing' is one of the words people are using most often to describe their distress", said Dr. Gluteous. "These people are definitely suffering. Though we do wish they'd stop whinging so much. There seems to be no real danger and it's apparently not contagious, at least not through contact with the patient. All we can do is give them some soothing cream to rub on the affected parts and send them home."

While most medical professionals see it as a harmless, if puzzling, phenomenon, others are not so sanguine. "Some folks seem to be affected mentally, as well", a nurse, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told this reporter. "A significant number of them mention some kind of 'lizards' being behind the pain in their behind. One guy was clearly a little unbalanced, mumbling something over and over about 'the lizard king'. We were glad to get rid of him."

Others, rumor has it, come to the ER and then complain about socialized medicine and "death panels" when they are not seen immediately. One man was arrested after pulling down his pants in the waiting room, pointing to his swollen, beet-red fundament, and shouting "This is what Obama's socialist coup has done to me!"

Dr Gluteous assures the public there is no reason to fear, but urges caution. "It's almost as if a certain segment of the population somehow got a vicious, simultaneous spanking from some unknown agent", she said.

A late check by this reporter seems to indicate that the number of cases is leveling off, but we will continue to monitor this situation closely.

Excellent work Cato- I think it's great that the increasingly important field of butthurt research continues to grow apace. It is also worth noting that one of the defining features of the condition manifested by sufferers -particularly in terminal cases - is denial, often expressed as disdain for such work. When you see statements like "Oh I'm so tired of all this butthurt talk" and "there's no such thing as butthurt", you know you are in the presence of the butthurt.

306 Gelly  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 11:06:03am

I'm impressed to see a blogger stepping back from the easy partisan route and thinking it through. No ideology is flawless, and it only gets worse once you put the realities of politics and human selfishness into it; if you claim a position and defend everything about it without seeing its problems and the fact that it's imperfect and the fact that other people with those views are also imperfect, then you don't really hold those values. This kind of hypocrisy comes both from the partisan left and the partisan right, and I think I'll be reading and commenting here for at least a little while since it's nice to see someone calling out the hypocrites out.

Regarding starting a third political party, something many have brought up, it's not practical in the US, because third-parties aren't electable here. In a three-party election, the party that LEAST represents what the voters wanted will win. For example, in a right-leaning district with a far-right party, a center-right party, and a center-left party, although a majority of voters would vote for one of the right-leaning parties, their votes would be split between the two parties, and thus the center-left party would probably "win" with around 40% of the vote. A better system would be "instant runoff", in which you rank in order which party you want your votes to go to; the party with the least first-choice votes gets eliminated, and all those votes are then moved to the voter's second-choice party, and so on until one party has a majority. Then, in the earlier example, the smaller rightist party's votes would be transferred to the bigger one, which would win.

Due to this, both parties are luring in as many votes as possible, even if it means catering to contradictory positions, and neither party is trying to keep their whole base happy right now; the difference is their focus. The Republicans have been paying lip service to both fiscal conservatives and far-right crazies for a long time, while doing what they can do line their pockets and pay off their allies, but the terrible GWB administration and Obama's attractive facade completely destroyed their popularity among moderates. After years of massively increased govt spending, an increasingly unpopular war, and a tanking economy all during a Republican president's term, they felt their only chance was to really bring in the people who were so devoted that they'd ignore all that and vote R anyway, so they tried to attract enough crazies to make up for the dropping moderate support by throwing Palin into the ring with the medium-right McCain. Unfortunately, she scared off even more moderates, the far-right wasn't enough to make up for it, and the enraged crazies lashed out against the party that made the mistake of using them and then still failing. That led to the current split, and it looks like the moderates are losing control.

On the other hand, the Democrats have been completely ignoring their far-left and instead focused on grabbing votes from the center and center-right, knowing that the far-lefties will mostly vote for the Democrat anyway because the only alternative with a chance of winning is the Republicans and they really didn't want that. The exception is Obama; he made some pretty clear mid-left campaign promises, the far-left got optimistic and projected their own desires onto him, and then he got into office and then he turned out to be a centrist who just continued most of Bush's policies while making big speeches in which he pretends to be liberal. Although no one hears about it because the media's mid-right at best and is busy attacking the centrist Obama from the right, the far left hates his guts, and now that the Republicans are gone for a while, I think they'll try to primary the more pro-corporate Democrats and simply stop voting when they fail - if the right gets its fringe under control, they could be back in power sooner than you expect.

307 giantslor  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 1:35:50pm

re: #151 _RememberTonyC

Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight is the only blogger I read every word of. I also read the other bloggers at his site. His site is less ideological and more wonkish, with an emphasis on electoral and legislative politics. His focus is on empiricism, polls, statistics, and any other facts you can sink your teeth into.

Other thoughtful and wonkish bloggers worth reading are Matthew Yglesias at Think Progress, Kevin Drum at Mother Jones, Ezra Klein at Washington Post, and Steve Benen at Washington Monthly. Then there's Paul Krugman at the New York Times who is a class apart.


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