Charles Johnson Blogosphere • Fri Dec 4, 2009 at 4:36 pm PST • Views: 315
Yesterday I had a talk with Hillel Aron of the USC Annenberg School of Journalism, and the Q&A session is now online at their Neon Tommy blog: Charles Johnson: Holding Down The Center.
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"The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
As long as the "blood dimmed tide" (the birthers, the truthers, the people who scream about tyranny and death panels, the rabidly anti-war left) keep dominating the discussion, it'll be the worst rather than the best who get to set the agenda. One of the things I love about this site is that people who hold widely opposing views can still discuss things like civilised human beings. What I hate is that such places seem to be rarity in the political sphere.
I got lefty friends. We enjoy the repartee about politics between us guys. I was reading LGF during the summer Lebanon war and forwarding to these guys. Anyway long story shorter in recent months I kept sending them certain topics with the subject line Is This A Right Wing Blog? At first no responses.
Finally I got the big admission from the Dem hard core partisan-, a bit snarky but that's fine "It's what the left has been saying about the right for years". Then CJ had the interview on Sirius and wow. Anyway the three of us are meeting over beers at my place tonight and we'll be going through LGF for discussion.
I truly expect both of these two guys to be lurking here more and one will register when they can.
I'm not fond of the name calling and simplistic labeling that occurs on both sides of the divide(s). Left-Center-Right itself is too simple, and if you don't pay any attention to the details or nuances of any of the issues it seems to become all too easy to dismiss a side one disagrees with.
Or, to look at a recent thread, it seems all too easy to bundle believing in AGW into automatically supporting some of the proposed policies on how to react to it.
One reason I like LGF is that most issues are approached from a rational POV, with links provided for looking at references and data.
Nice. The stuff about PJM and Glenn Reynolds might raise a few eyebrows out there.
Hard to see why, really-- it's true, and not a surprise to anyone paying attention, IMO.
The stuff about Obama is what will bring the hatemail (again) from the kook fringe.
I got lefty friends. We enjoy the repartee about politics between us guys. I was reading LGF during the summer Lebanon war and forwarding to these guys. Anyway long story shorter in recent months I kept sending them certain topics with the subject line Is This A Right Wing Blog? At first no responses.
Finally I got the big admission from the Dem hard core partisan-, a bit snarky but that's fine "It's what the left has been saying about the right for years". Then CJ had the interview on Sirius and wow. Anyway the three of us are meeting over beers at my place tonight and we'll be going through LGF for discussion.
I truly expect both of these two guys to be lurking here more and one will register when they can.
Speaking as a card-carrying lefty, I can attest to the fact that LGF isn't what I used to think it was. Rational argument is a good thing, for both sides...we won't always agree, nor would I want us to (homogenaeity is as dangerous as extremism). It's finding common ground that is important.
Nice. The stuff about PJM and Glenn Reynolds might raise a few eyebrows out there.
Yeah, well, I've said much worse here. When PJ Media responded to the original flare-up of the RS McCain issue by posting an article by that creep featured on the front page -- after I had emailed them about it -- and refused to remove some of the evil comments that were actually accusing me of having sex with my own mother, I took that as the internet equivalent of a middle finger.
It's a shame PJM didn't pan out but I guess it's no surprise. There really isn't a moderate force (aside from LGF) in the blogosphere. It's pretty much all hyper partisan blogs. Seems to be the only thing people are interested in.
I live around a lot of liberals, and what strikes me the most about political discussions I have with folks is how frequently they will agree with conservative (Goldwater!) principles on certain areas such as fiscal responsibility, education, taxes- yet they are usually surprised when I tell them later in the conversation I'm a republican! Maybe because they don't know what a republican is?
When you look at polling on issues, America is center right, but when you look at party affiliation, we still tend to see more align with the democrats- until now. Now Independents are the largest political affiliation, and I think it's because more people in the center-right and center-left agree with Goldwater conservatism- a happy balance between government and the people's freedoms.
Yeah, well, I've said much worse here. When PJ Media responded to the original flare-up of the RS McCain issue by posting an article by that creep featured on the front page -- after I had emailed them about it -- and refused to remove some of the evil comments that were actually accusing me of having sex with my own mother, I took that as the internet equivalent of a middle finger.
LMFAO! They actually used the 'he screws his mother' response? Talk about desperation! Sorry, Charles, for your having to take that kind of abuse, but do take comfort in this...those who make the posts like that are almost hiding behind aliases. And while I may hide behind my online name of 'darthstar', feel free to call me Sean.
Attention: Carnivores
Since the American "Food" Network has switched to constantly running shows about cakes, sugar sculptures and praise for chemical laden snacks rolling off automated factory assembly lines I've resorted to watching some of the UK food programs. I posted earlier about the River Cottage Series a while back. (Order on DVD here) An interesting theme among many of the UK food shows is educating people about their food and where it comes from. When it comes to meat there are a lot of things to think about. Here is the US the only people talking about the ethics of meat issues are preachy vegetarians who are easily dismissed so I found the discussion from a meat eater's viewpoint to be very persuasive. Here's a video from Jamie Oliver (from The Naked Chef)...
Fowl Dinner Pt.1
The other 10 parts are on the sidebar and the show runs about 1hour 20 minutes. The first half is about egg production and the second half is about meat. I highly recommend watching. It's not intended to convince people to stop eating meat but to think about the ethical issues involved and make better choices. There is some NSFW language and some of it is a little shocking but not gory or violent. He does kill some chicks at the end of the first segment but he does it to make a very important point; All meat involves killing but it doesn't have to involve cruelty or excessive pain to the animal.
I recently made the switch to free range chicken and eggs. I was a little unsure about making the switch because I live on such a tight budget. I found that the extra cost was something even I could comfortably afford. A dozen free range eggs costs $2.10 at my local mega mart as apposed to $1.30 for the regular ones. Since I go through about a dozen eggs a month this only adds 80 cents to my monthly grocery budget. A free range chicken from Trader Joe's cost $1.99 per pound while normal chicken at the mega mart was $1.70. The extra 29 cents is worth it. The free range birds have better texture, flavor and are much less likely to dry out as I pick over the carcass later in the week for leftovers.
Eating meat inevitably involves death. The best thing we can do is to make sure that death comes at the end of a healthy and happy life. Please watch the video and give it some thought.
It's a shame PJM didn't pan out but I guess it's no surprise. There really isn't a moderate force (aside from LGF) in the blogosphere. It's pretty much all hyper partisan blogs. Seems to be the only thing people are interested in.
I feel most comfortable here at LFG now, even though there are some people here who I have irreconcilable differences with, as it were. This is the kind of place I've been looking for-- and vainly hoping other blogs would become-- for a long time.
As I said when I joined, my first impression of LGF was back during the un-or-barely moderated days. The difference now is night and day, to me.
I like a blog that requires me to keep certain standards of behavior. I hope I live up to it.
I just took a run through some of the right wing blogs, and the posts about the CRU non-scandal are almost unbelievable. Bizarre irrational rants, dripping with venom and insults, Al Gore, Al Gore, Al Gore, etc.
It's a shame PJM didn't pan out but I guess it's no surprise. There really isn't a moderate force (aside from LGF) in the blogosphere. It's pretty much all hyper partisan blogs. Seems to be the only thing people are interested in.
Ahhh...the echochambers. I'll bet i read 60 political blogs in 2001. Now i read one. I echo enough in my own head. How am I going to learn anything surrounded by hundreds of people saying the exact same thing, slowly substituting emotion where analysis once existed?
I hope they do. I have been here for about a month. I am certain that there is no other center right blog where I could state my lefty opinion and not be totally flamed. I appreciate the opportunity to be challenged to state my opinions clearly, thinking things through. Plus, the snark & funny runs deep around here!
Why is there such a difference between the two parties' relationship to their fringes?
For one thing, look at the leaders of the Republican party, they all seem to be 60-plus years old. And the country itself is getting younger. And attitudes are changing. Attitudes toward homosexuality, science, the whole bit. And a lot of these people who run the Republican Party are reactionaries of the first order. They can see themselves losing power, so what they're doing is going further to the right, in an attempt to appeal to the dwindling base.
The decline in Republican Party affiliation among Americans in recent years is well documented, but a Gallup analysis now shows that this movement away from the GOP has occurred among nearly every major demographic subgroup. Since the first year of George W. Bush's presidency in 2001, the Republican Party has maintained its support only among frequent churchgoers, with conservatives and senior citizens showing minimal decline.
The only place not showing losses-- their base-- is older white male conservative Christians who attend church at least once a week. It's a demographic which is quite literally dying out, and its the demographic they themselves represent as well. Rather than look ahead and recognise the demographic shift underway nationally, they're clinging to that base for all their worth and mainstreaming the extreme.
I don't post much (workin' on it...) but the anti-idiotarianism here seems the most sensible place on the web. Even when the rest of the web is shrieking at the walls, I can count on a dose of sanity here.
I live around a lot of liberals, and what strikes me the most about political discussions I have with folks is how frequently they will agree with conservative (Goldwater!) principles on certain areas such as fiscal responsibility, education, taxes- yet they are usually surprised when I tell them later in the conversation I'm a republican! Maybe because they don't know what a republican is?
Goes both ways. I've had people be terribly surprised to hear that I was a, gasp, Democrat, because those people are all patchouli-smokin', Jim-shoe-wearin' nanny statists. I even have a job! And I'm married!
I think you're right, there is a strong center, and the center-right and center-left overlap a great deal.
LMFAO! They actually used the 'he screws his mother' response? Talk about desperation! Sorry, Charles, for your having to take that kind of abuse, but do take comfort in this...those who make the posts like that are almost hiding behind aliases. And while I may hide behind my online name of 'darthstar', feel free to call me Sean.
Goes both ways. I've had people be terribly surprised to hear that I was a, gasp, Democrat, because those people are all patchouli-smokin', Jim-shoe-wearin' nanny statists. I even have a job! And I'm married!
I think you're right, there is a strong center, and the center-right and center-left overlap a great deal.
Yep. i knew i was in the right place when i couldn't figure out which poster was which party until they said so. my kind of melange.
I've actually changed my mind quite a bit about Barack Obama. You know how things are during an election, everybody gets hyper-partisan, and I guess I was guilty of that as much as anyone. But I've seen him be a lot more centrist than I ever expected during the election, based on his background, and the people that he got his political start with, you know, Bill Ayeres, Reverend Wright. If I had to go back, knowing what I do now, I probably would have voted for him.
I mean - consider the outrage of someone actually re-evaluating their stance towards Obama and changing it in the light of new information. This is the sort of thing that's destroying America!/
I hope they do. I have been here for about a month. I am certain that there is no other center right blog where I could state my lefty opinion and not be totally flamed. I appreciate the opportunity to be challenged to state my opinions clearly, thinking things through. Plus, the snark & funny runs deep around here!
It's a fairly new development, and I enjoy it a lot as well.
Nice. that video is underrated. Chevy only masters a narrow range of the comedy genre, but this was right up his alley. i've seen it 50 times and i laugh every single time.
Speaking as a card-carrying lefty, I can attest to the fact that LGF isn't what I used to think it was. Rational argument is a good thing, for both sides...we won't always agree, nor would I want us to (homogenaeity is as dangerous as extremism). It's finding common ground that is important.
Cheers.
Seconded. Just got my account today but lurked on and off during and since the elections. It's refreshing to see the rationality and non-kookiness here. It's gotten so hard to get rational opinions and information from both sides of the spectrum in one site, but this place comes closer than any others I've seen. I don't think I'll ever go right again, but I hope this place will keep me a sharp and honest lefty instead of a drone lefty. See you all around.
I mean - consider the outrage of someone actually re-evaluating their stance towards Obama and changing it in the light of new information. This is the sort of thing that's destroying America!/
not all of us agree with Charles with regard to BO, but heads don't need to pop, that's bullshit...you make too much of it
Seconded. Just got my account today but lurked on and off during and since the elections. It's refreshing to see the rationality and non-kookiness here. It's gotten so hard to get rational opinions and information from both sides of the spectrum in one site, but this place comes closer than any others I've seen. I don't think I'll ever go right again, but I hope this place will keep me a sharp and honest lefty instead of a drone lefty. See you all around.
As a bit of a righty, i'll take a sharp and honest lefty over a drone righty any day of the week. Glad to have you.
They're terrifying, aren't they? They hang on every damn post on this site. Makes my skin crawl.
It's kind of odd, eh? It's as though Hollywood paparazzi had decided to follow my urban schoolteacher life obsessively. "SFZ spotted grading a stack of vocabulary quizzes at the taco place! SFZ has been spotted out and about in a purple cardigan set, and Lane Bryant black slacks!"
But, you know, hostile, and foulmouthed, and paranoid.
Really weird. ((YES, stalkerfolks, I am talking to YOU. YOU are really weird!))
I think you're right, there is a strong center, and the center-right and center-left overlap a great deal.
It's really when we start treading into the fringes where things start getting weird, and as we go even further out into the fringe- they start over-lapping. SFor example, Code Pink showing up at tea parties.
Thankfully, the rational middle has tended to prevail in this country. I'm going to keep hoping that holds.
Also, I want to say, I appreciate the oftentimes tempering of a poster's negative thoughts and impressions about President Obama when I or another liberal are on a thread. I know you folks need to vent like anybody else. If I read a thread that is letting loose on the President, I will wait until another one that is a bit more neutral to post. I figure you folks have been at this party a lot longer than I have.
I mean - consider the outrage of someone actually re-evaluating their stance towards Obama and changing it in the light of new information. This is the sort of thing that's destroying America!/
President Obama isn't a progressive, or even strong liberal. He's quite moderate...if he wasn't a moderate, he would have lost the primary to Hillary. If Democrats (and America as a whole) wanted a true progressive president, Dennis Kucinich (yeah, I do like him, and he's got a hot wife to boot!) would be our president...though I don't see that ever happening.
It's really when we start treading into the fringes where things start getting weird, and as we go even further out into the fringe- they start over-lapping. SFor example, Code Pink showing up at tea parties.
Thankfully, the rational middle has tended to prevail in this country. I'm going to keep hoping that holds.
especially if they get off their ass and actually vote...Americans are overwhelmingly moderate, but they let the fringe do the talking for them in the meanwhile...that's why I am reluctant to give Beck too much credit
My brother's approach has been to go to a sort of non-pushy vegetarianism. He eats meat on occasion, but generally only if he knows the source of the meat*, and making exceptions for certain events. It fits in well with eating a good diet, and also generally matches what his daughter prefers to eat, pasta, vegetables, and bread. Fresh eggs available as well since with the his rural location he can keep a small flock of chickens. Add in a garden and he has a good idea with a considerable part of his food supply comes from.
* - Beef from a local farmer, venison or other game via some friends who are hunters, and purchasing fish now and then.
I just took a run through some of the right wing blogs, and the posts about the CRU non-scandal are almost unbelievable. Bizarre irrational rants, dripping with venom and insults, Al Gore, Al Gore, Al Gore, etc.
Completely nuts.
I just don't get it.
At worst this whole "climategate" seems to have involved a few overzealous and unprofessional scientists at one research facility, so how in the world can this small-scale malfeasance be said to undermine an entire body of scientific research.
Is it somehow possible that East Anglia is some kind of magical lynchpin which is holding together the entire AGW movement?
Just nuts.
It's really when we start treading into the fringes where things start getting weird, and as we go even further out into the fringe- they start over-lapping. SFor example, Code Pink showing up at tea parties.
Thankfully, the rational middle has tended to prevail in this country. I'm going to keep hoping that holds.
Also, I want to say, I appreciate the oftentimes tempering of a poster's negative thoughts and impressions about President Obama when I or another liberal are on a thread. I know you folks need to vent like anybody else. If I read a thread that is letting loose on the President, I will wait until another one that is a bit more neutral to post. I figure you folks have been at this party a lot longer than I have.
I need to control myself with regard to BO...and I'm trying...the fact that I cannot stand the guy is just one opinion
not all of us agree with Charles with regard to BO, but heads don't need to pop, that's bullshit...you make too much of it
I said some wingnut heads, not all of them. But as it happens wingnut heads have been popping all week at an alarming rate, all over the right wing blogosphere. And right here, Stinky's been picking littly bitty pieces of wingnut skull out of LGF's upholstery all week - surely you must have noticed?
Whether we like to think about it or not, the popping of wingnut heads is a very real phenomenon.
Also, I want to say, I appreciate the oftentimes tempering of a poster's negative thoughts and impressions about President Obama when I or another liberal are on a thread. I know you folks need to vent like anybody else. If I read a thread that is letting loose on the President, I will wait until another one that is a bit more neutral to post. I figure you folks have been at this party a lot longer than I have.
I just skip over anything with Nancy Pelosi in it here. No point raising my own blood pressure or anyone else's. Most of us here like a good argument, it's just a question of being able to tell what will be a good argument, and what will be a bad argument.
President Obama isn't a progressive, or even strong liberal. He's quite moderate...if he wasn't a moderate, he would have lost the primary to Hillary. If Democrats (and America as a whole) wanted a true progressive president, Dennis Kucinich (yeah, I do like him, and he's got a hot wife to boot!) would be our president...though I don't see that ever happening.
I can't stand Kucinic, lived in the land of Cleve for a while (his fringe is a lot more visible up close), but it is with an amused admiration that i say i have NO idea how he ended up with her! They're almost comical in public together...he looks like her little brother.
It's kind of odd, eh? It's as though Hollywood paparazzi had decided to follow my urban schoolteacher life obsessively. "SFZ spotted grading a stack of vocabulary quizzes at the taco place! SFZ has been spotted out and about in a purple cardigan set, and Lane Bryant black slacks!"
But, you know, hostile, and foulmouthed, and paranoid.
Really weird. ((YES, stalkerfolks, I am talking to YOU. YOU are really weird!))
Hey, if it was La Corneta (near Glen Park Station), then it's a great place to grade papers...especially with a prawn quesadilla!
I mean - consider the outrage of someone actually re-evaluating their stance towards Obama and changing it in the light of new information. This is the sort of thing that's destroying America!/
I respect Charles' opinion and stance. I don't agree with some of his current positions, but I don't take that as an obstacle to my constructive participation here. I registered on LGF because I wanted to be able to post at a place where sane conservatives were welcome. LGF is still that place and I'm profoundly grateful to Charles for building it and working to keep the crazies out.
President Obama isn't a progressive, or even strong liberal. He's quite moderate...if he wasn't a moderate, he would have lost the primary to Hillary. If Democrats (and America as a whole) wanted a true progressive president, Dennis Kucinich (yeah, I do like him, and he's got a hot wife to boot!) would be our president...though I don't see that ever happening.
Kucinich does have an almost ridiculously hot wife. Who is much taller than he is.
I respect Charles' opinion and stance. I don't agree with some of his current positions, but I don't take that as an obstacle to my constructive participation here. I registered on LGF because I wanted to be able to post at a place where sane conservatives were welcome. LGF is still that place and I'm profoundly grateful to Charles for building it and working to keep the crazies out.
I don't think he expects you to agree with his positions...just think about them objectively.
I mean - consider the outrage of someone actually re-evaluating their stance towards Obama and changing it in the light of new information. This is the sort of thing that's destroying America!/
If Obama's foreign policy continues to veer to the right I think we will see a lot more of this...along with a lot of moonbat meltdowns.
I said some wingnut heads, not all of them. But as it happens wingnut heads have been popping all week at an alarming rate, all over the right wing blogosphere. And right here, Stinky's been picking littly bitty pieces of wingnut skull out of LGF's upholstery all week - surely you must have noticed?
Whether we like to think about it or not, the popping of wingnut heads is a very real phenomenon.
so be it...mine is still sitting there atop my shoulders, and I don't put much stock in the internet in some situations...time will tell
In fact I think there are more with buyer's remorse than not...
I'm not there yet, in national election terms, although given a second chance in the voting booth I think I'd write in for Hillary and be done with it.
In terms of the Democratic primary, I'm still sulking in the back of the puma exhibit, licking my paws and glaring at the fourth-graders on their field trip.
If Obama's foreign policy continues to veer to the right I think we will see a lot more of this...along with a lot of moonbat meltdowns.
The sad thing for the GOP, however, is that if they continue to push further to the right in response (because they have to keep President Obama as their liberal bogey-man), then they run the risk of even reducing the fringe base they have. You can only push the fear card so far before people say, "Wait a minute."
Voting for Obama...I could see it if one of the current GOP "leading candidates" got nominated. But maybe the GOP will surprise us with a decent candidate.
I don't think he expects you to agree with his positions...just think about them objectively.
I know, and I do think about them that way. The stalkers can spin their lies all day, but I know that Charles is sure enough in himself that does not require anything like uniformity, only respect and that I am happy to give him (because he deserves it).
I respect Charles' opinion and stance. I don't agree with some of his current positions, but I don't take that as an obstacle to my constructive participation here. I registered on LGF because I wanted to be able to post at a place where sane conservatives were welcome. LGF is still that place and I'm profoundly grateful to Charles for building it and working to keep the crazies out.
Absolutely. Not everyone to the right of centre is a wingnut. Unfortunately though the GOP and the 'conservative movement' is currently being led (astray) by them.
The sad thing for the GOP, however, is that if they continue to push further to the right in response (because they have to keep President Obama as their liberal bogey-man), then they run the risk of even reducing the fringe base they have. You can only push the fear card so far before people say, "Wait a minute."
Voting for Obama...I could see it if one of the current GOP "leading candidates" got nominated. But maybe the GOP will surprise us with a decent candidate.
yes, but it's still weird. I always thought of the GOP as the party that excelled at longrange party strategy. Not any more.
The old money is trying to create the next generation of fundies, but they are falling somewhat flat. They have followed the Weyrich path in creating their own media, their own institutions, and their own think tanks, and we'll still be dealing with those the next few decades even if they have zero for a farm team, and very little in the way of a bench. The coming horde of the home schooled will be the next wave.
Hoekstra is the guy who told the Washington Post that Nadal Hassan had been emailing a radical cleric and that the US was monitoring said cleric's emails. That was a bit of a security breach on his part--like Geraldo Rivera reporting for Fox the position of US troops during the Iraq invasion--and not very smart...Democrats would welcome a Hoekstra candidacy.
Voting for Obama...I could see it if one of the current GOP "leading candidates" got nominated. But maybe the GOP will surprise us with a decent candidate.
I cannot claim my state or city!...my nic will not protect me!...I need my anonymity!...Montana?...Jersey?...can't tell or I'll be exposed to nefarious peoples that will use me for purposes I can't reveal!
hahahaha!
The coming horde of the home schooled will be the next wave.
The religious right's home-schooling movement is actually very scary stuff. They're creating a whole separate class of people who have loyalty only to their fundamentalist view of the Bible, and are incredibly ignorant and indoctrinated with anti-science mindrot.
You're right, this is bad craziness and it's going to get a lot worse.
Besides politics, there are all kinds of neat things one learns from hanging around this place. I've been watching "LGF" on Twitter (without a hashtag) and have learned about Lion's Gate Films and La Gata Fina!
The religious right's home-schooling movement is actually very scary stuff. They're creating a whole separate class of people who have loyalty only to their fundamentalist view of the Bible, and are incredibly ignorant and indoctrinated with anti-science mindrot.
You're right, this is bad craziness and it's going to get a lot worse.
The saddest thing about the whole hard core fundy conservative movement is that at least a third of the leadership are hucksters, out for self enrichment and the people following don't even see it.
I cannot claim my state or city!...my nic will not protect me!...I need my anonymity!...Montana?...Jersey?...can't tell or I'll be exposed to nefarious peoples that will use me for purposes I can't reveal!
hahahaha!
or I could just get dissed for sticking my nose in...
There's an old quote by Eisenhower that I always liked. Ike said something to the effect that he had no patience for those on the right who insisted that everyone who disagreed with them was a communist but he equally had no patience for those on the left who called everyone else a heartless moneygrubber. It seems too often in modern politics that people on both sides think in black and white terms. That is to say they assume if you believe in X, that you must not believe in Y.
The old money is trying to create the next generation of fundies, but they are falling somewhat flat. They have followed the Weyrich path in creating their own media, their own institutions, and their own think tanks, and we'll still be dealing with those the next few decades even if they have zero for a farm team, and very little in the way of a bench. The coming horde of the home schooled will be the next wave.
Agree & favourited. The homeschooling wave did just start to hit a while ago-- some of this new generation they're grooming for pundit status. I shudder to think what happens when they are making policy (tho some of that started to happen-- Bush had several appointees esp in the science areas that were the products of bible colleges and the like.)
no It's just that I am so amused by the prying little fingers... yes I know -2 from J & Crew LOL
big whoop...happens to me all the time with some people...but I find it odd that some people will not say, I live in the midwest, or Cleveland or whatever...Americans are just not like that on the whole, imo
How much of the "center" is people who are basically frustrated/given up on both parties? And the media as well?
As has been pointed out here, the "nanny state" just seems to change emphasis depending on which party is currently in power. In either case the parties seem more beholden to the corporate and lobbyist money used to retain office than in attempting to address the issues facing the nation (and world).
When the 2008 primaries were running all I thought a HRC nomination and Democratic victory would garner would be a shift from a right-leaning authoritarian government to a left-leaning one. McCain would simply be a continuation for the most part of the existing positions as one Republican administration succeeded another. Whether Obama would be able to make a difference and possibly be a pattern breaker or not was unclear, but to me at least there was (and still is) a chance of that happening.
I also think the center gets support since many people are "liberal" on some issues and "conservative" on others. Or at least believe that moderate courses might prove productive. Another case where the labels commonly in use serve poorly as descriptors.
The religious right's home-schooling movement is actually very scary stuff. They're creating a whole separate class of people who have loyalty only to their fundamentalist view of the Bible, and are incredibly ignorant and indoctrinated with anti-science mindrot.
You're right, this is bad craziness and it's going to get a lot worse.
Maybe. It's all fun and games until your kid goes away to college, though. There are definitely fundamentalist U's for the fundamentalist homeschoolers, but don't the vast majority of homeschoolers attend non-fundy universities?
The sad thing for the GOP, however, is that if they continue to push further to the right in response (because they have to keep President Obama as their liberal bogey-man), then they run the risk of even reducing the fringe base they have. You can only push the fear card so far before people say, "Wait a minute."
I disagree. The sooner the extreme right is co-opted the better. If Obama helps that process along by moving to the right then mainstream conservatives should thank him for that...and then they should mop up the floor and retake control of the GOP.
I disagree. The sooner the extreme right is co-opted the better. If Obama helps that process along by moving to the right then mainstream conservatives should thank him for that...and then they should mop up the floor and retake control of the GOP.
At the rate they're going (the extreme right, that is), the only thing they'll have as a platform will be pre-emptively bombing our allies.
I think you have created something unique here Charles. Interesting and varied posts with lively debate is missing on most blogs. I cant think of one other blog (that is widely read) where I can read more than a few comments without getting disgusted.
I read quite a few for the headlines, but only comment occasionally on a couple. Other bloggers should take a serious look at what you have done and try to at least strive for the civility level exhibited here.
My theory is that most just don't have anything interesting to say, so throwing out red meat is their only survival tactic.
I believe you would be correct. And I know my Catholic homeschooled kids would not be welcome at say Bob Jones University. Since they aren't *real* Christians and all.
or I could just get dissed for sticking my nose in...
You're implying that I'm not an American citizen. Whether I am or am not doesn't bear on how informed I might be about American politics, and American citizens do not have to reveal who they voted for.
OK, I think I deserve a Chimay Grand Reserve ale after this week.
Gotta admit, I was actually a bit surprised at all the attention that post got. I didn't really say anything in it that I haven't been posting at LGF for quite a while.
Maybe. It's all fun and games until your kid goes away to college, though. There are definitely fundamentalist U's for the fundamentalist homeschoolers, but don't the vast majority of homeschoolers attend non-fundy universities?
I don't know, but by that time, their world-view, especially the paranoia about the evil world around them, will be pretty well locked solid.
I believe you would be correct. And I know my Catholic homeschooled kids would not be welcome at say Bob Jones University. Since they aren't *real* Christians and all.
/sarc
You know, i'm not a Catholic, and i had the most wonderful experience at a Jesuit high school. Absolutely fantastic people, through and through. I'll never understand the catholic/protestant divide in other countries...i had more common ground with sincere, well-meaning catholic teachers than with just about anyone else i'd met. and the education was second-to-none.
I salt & pepper my steaks, as well as douse them with worcestershire sauce and a little soy, and sprinkle with a pinch of sugar. Also, it's important to let the steak 'rest' for five to ten minutes after it comes off as it's still cooking. You can tent it with foil, but it's not necessary.
You're implying that I'm not an American citizen. Whether I am or am not doesn't bear on how informed I might be about American politics, and American citizens do not have to reveal who they voted for.
you admitted to citizenship last spring...no big deal, people are just curious as to where you live
Maybe. It's all fun and games until your kid goes away to college, though. There are definitely fundamentalist U's for the fundamentalist homeschoolers, but don't the vast majority of homeschoolers attend non-fundy universities?
Those aren't the homeschoolers you need to worry about. It's the ones being homeschooled not to further their chances of getting into an excellent university, but being homeschooled in order to isolate them from exposure to mainstream culture and from wacky notions like evolution.
Those are the ones being set on the track that runs through a Bible college and into local politics at grassroots levels--and they're scary.
Yes, but now it's all in one place and they can point to a snip of that post and say "See! I always told you he was a sekret (commie/jihadi/trilateralist/soros stooge/etc.")
You're implying that I'm not an American citizen. Whether I am or am not doesn't bear on how informed I might be about American politics, and American citizens do not have to reveal who they voted for.
It's quite clear your preference, and I hope the 2 of you are quite happy where you choose to be. But politics is such a local thing, you know?
OK, I think I deserve a Chimay Grand Reserve ale after this week.
Gotta admit, I was actually a bit surprised at all the attention that post got. I didn't really say anything in it that I haven't been posting at LGF for quite a while.
There's something about putting it all together on the front page. What amazes me is the number of folks who said you did it to increase traffic, and in the same sentence they say they will never visit the site again. And the number who said they never read anything here, but they can't believe how much it's changed.
All in all a good interview, I am one who thinks that LGF and Charles didn't change that much, it was the Right wing that we thought were allies: They changed.
One error: "And the country itself is getting younger."
Decidedly untrue: the median age of Americans is presently 35.3 years, up 32.9 in 1990.
OK, I think I deserve a Chimay Grand Reserve ale after this week.
Gotta admit, I was actually a bit surprised at all the attention that post got. I didn't really say anything in it that I haven't been posting at LGF for quite a while.
Ahhh the blue label. My local DeCicco's only had the red one last night, dammit.
I feel most comfortable here at LFG now, even though there are some people here who I have irreconcilable differences with, as it were. This is the kind of place I've been looking for-- and vainly hoping other blogs would become-- for a long time.
As I said when I joined, my first impression of LGF was back during the un-or-barely moderated days. The difference now is night and day, to me.
I like a blog that requires me to keep certain standards of behavior. I hope I live up to it.
Although I might be one of those people you'll have differences with I agree with everything you've said here.
When you run a blog that attracts so many people with diverging views you've got to have rules or it'll turn into a ugly mess.
Those aren't the homeschoolers you need to worry about. It's the ones being homeschooled not to further their chances of getting into an excellent university, but being homeschooled in order to isolate them from exposure to mainstream culture and from wacky notions like evolution.
Those are the ones being set on the track that runs through a Bible college and into local politics at grassroots levels--and they're scary.
booga booga!...got some stats?...I'd be willing to bet most home schoolers are in it because of the dismal state of public education, not because of Darwin...you are reaching bigtime
booga booga!...got some stats?...I'd be willing to bet most home schoolers are in it because of the dismal state of public education, not because of Darwin...you are reaching bigtime
If you imagine I made a statement about "most" home schoolers, you're the one reaching.
Those aren't the homeschoolers you need to worry about. It's the ones being homeschooled not to further their chances of getting into an excellent university, but being homeschooled in order to isolate them from exposure to mainstream culture and from wacky notions like evolution.
Those are the ones being set on the track that runs through a Bible college and into local politics at grassroots levels--and they're scary.
yeah, and i was wondering if there are enough Bible colleges to turn this scary little population into a big scary population. my brain says no, and my heart says "please, brain, don't be wrong"...
OK, I think I deserve a Chimay Grand Reserve ale after this week.
Gotta admit, I was actually a bit surprised at all the attention that post got. I didn't really say anything in it that I haven't been posting at LGF for quite a while.
Allow me to offer you one of my brewskis.
Thanks for all your efforts and patience...and cheers!
If you imagine I made a statement about "most" home schoolers, you're the one reaching.
correct...so we should be worried about the few anti Dawinists and neglect the pathetic state of public education?...why?...the latter is a much larger problem than the former
booga booga!...got some stats?...I'd be willing to bet most home schoolers are in it because of the dismal state of public education, not because of Darwin...you are reaching bigtime
That is why we homeschool. I have never heard the Darwin argument from anyone I know, but I am sure it exists. We are a military family so the homeschooling families we associate with are all military.
Argh, all this talk...pouring a finger of scotch. Yum.
I hope you hold the finger perpendicular to the glass when you measure...Me, I have to wait for my wife to get home with the bourbon for our manhattans...though I am having a gin & tonic at the moment.
yeah, and i was wondering if there are enough Bible colleges to turn this scary little population into a big scary population. my brain says no, and my heart says "please, brain, don't be wrong"...
It depends how much influence they have. Again, I'm not so much worried about a nation of fundamentalist zombies being churned out-- I don't see that happening! -- but about the very few being groomed as part of the fundie/politics nexus.
Ben Domenech, for example-- homeschooled, creationist, exposed as plagiarist about 24 hours after WaPo gave him a gig.
And then the legion of Bible college grads Bush appointed in various places. I don't think they were homeschooled, or not all of them-- but the next wave of fundie appointees will be. That's dangerous.
That is why we homeschool. I have never heard the Darwin argument from anyone I know, but I am sure it exists. We are a military family so the homeschooling families we associate with are all military.
good for you...you are fighting against the liberal tide and I commend you
I hope you hold the finger perpendicular to the glass when you measure...Me, I have to wait for my wife to get home with the bourbon for our manhattans...though I am having a gin & tonic at the moment.
G&T is my standby, too. Good call. Between the skiing and the wise choice of beverage, you make enough sense that you'll be leaning right any second now!
One is either "Left" or "Right" or "Liberal" or "Conservative" - those are four stark positions between which there is a huge swathe of area to cover. But ofcourse - when in a debate of 30 second sound bites on teevee news the man in the center is hit by the headlights coming from both sides and instantly struck down.
I remember a joke about Republicans vs. Democrats from when I was a teen:
In the summer, Republicans drink Gin & Tonics. Democrats drink beer.
In the winter, Republicans drink Scotch & Soda. Democrats drink beer.
It was funny at the time, as my dad is a scotch&soda guy and my mom a G&T drinker, and they're both Palin-loving republicans...oh well, you can't choose your parents.
Brings up an interesting question in my mind. Which is scarier - homeschooled, then regular university...or non-homeschooled, then bible college?
option b scares me more. lots of folks homeschool because the idiots in charge won't let us shop around with our tax dollars, whereas you pretty much go to bible college only because you can't or won't go to a typical college.
If I read a thread that is letting loose on the President, I will wait until another one that is a bit more neutral to post. I figure you folks have been at this party a lot longer than I have.
I remember a joke about Republicans vs. Democrats from when I was a teen:
In the summer, Republicans drink Gin & Tonics. Democrats drink beer.
In the winter, Republicans drink Scotch & Soda. Democrats drink beer.
It was funny at the time, as my dad is a scotch&soda guy and my mom a G&T drinker, and they're both Palin-loving republicans...oh well, you can't choose your parents.
And Portland Oregon is one of the greatest beer brewing cities on earth...and also one of the most liberal cities in the US. 8-)
I have an acquaintance who paid thousands of dollars for one of those. And, it's not to be "trusted" because it's so wild. Ever. I don't understand the attraction, other than they're pretty...
And then the legion of Bible college grads Bush appointed in various places. I don't think they were homeschooled, or not all of them-- but the next wave of fundie appointees will be. That's dangerous.
And now we have the legion of community activists and edgy left types Obama has appointed and will appoint in various places. They weren't all members of openly socialist or subversive organizations, nor not all of them -- but the next wave of lefty appointees will be.
Brings up an interesting question in my mind. Which is scarier - homeschooled, then regular university...or non-homeschooled, then bible college?
option b scares me more. lots of folks homeschool because the idiots in charge won't let us shop around with our tax dollars, whereas you pretty much go to bible college only because you can't or won't go to a typical college.
I'd have to go with option b for the reasons SFZ gave. At least at a regular university they're being exposed to many different people and different opinions, and the goal of a liberal arts education is ostensibly to learn to think critically.
If they're choosing bible college instead, it's indicative of a wider desire to be closed to opposing viewpoints.
An Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walk into a pub together. They each buy a pint of Guinness. Just as they are about to enjoy their creamy beverages, a fly lands in each of their pints and gets stuck in the frothy head.
The Englishman pushes his beer away in disgust.
The Scotsman fishes the fly out and continues drinking as if nothing happened.
The Irishman also picks the fly out of his drink, but then holds it out over the beer and yells, "Spit it out! Spit it out, you little bastard!"
you admitted to citizenship last spring...no big deal, people are just curious as to where you live
No, as always when people are demanding to know where iceweasel lives or comes from, it's an attempt to provoke some sort of stupid little bickering session - kinda like the one brookly is creating right now, funnily enough.
I'd have to go with option b for the reasons SFZ gave. At least at a regular university they're being exposed to many different people and different opinions, and the goal of a liberal arts education is ostensibly to learn to think critically.
If they're choosing bible college instead, it's indicative of a wider desire to be closed to opposing viewpoints.
I agree, although imho a liberal arts education will expose them to a different POV. A science education will expose them to critical thinking. Of my two majors, only one required any real critical thinking.
Either of which should moderate the student's viewpoint.
And Portland Oregon is one of the greatest beer brewing cities on earth...and also one of the most liberal cities in the US. 8-)
Is it Portland where they make that Deadman Ale? I remember being at a bar on my 21st last year and the bartender was saying the beer was from Oregon. I remember liking the stuff. I'm more of a stout and German beer kinda guy but I enjoyed that.
And now we have the legion of community activists and edgy left types Obama has appointed and will appoint in various places. They weren't all members of openly socialist or subversive organizations, nor not all of them -- but the next wave of lefty appointees will be.
The mayor of a suburban Memphis city accused President Barack Obama of deliberately timing his speech about the war in Afghanistan this week to block the airing of the "Peanuts" Christmas television special.
According to The Commercial Appeal, Arlington Mayor Russell Wiseman posted the statements on his Facebook page and said the president is Muslim. Obama is Christian.
"We sit the kids down to watch 'The Charlie Brown Christmas Special' and our muslim president is there, what a load...try to convince me that wasn't done on purpose," he wrote, according to the newspaper.
Wiseman downplayed the posting when contacted by the newspaper Thursday. He did not immediately return phone calls from The Associated Press on Friday.
It's like a perfect storm of wingnut. Conspiracy theories, dire warnings that Obama is a seekrit Muslim, Charlie brown, and Facebook!
Really thanks. My husband is super supportive and I wouldn't do it if he wasn't 100% on board. He likes to ruffle my feathers every once in a while though lol
No, as always when people are demanding to know where iceweasel lives or comes from, it's an attempt to provoke some sort of stupid little bickering session - kinda like the one brookly is creating right now, funnily enough.
it wasn't a demand...you think too highly of yourselves...we know iceweasle is a citizen because she said she voted in the last election...I have no beef with that...you want to be secretive, that's your business...it's just very odd
No, as always when people are demanding to know where iceweasel lives or comes from, it's an attempt to provoke some sort of stupid little bickering session - kinda like the one brookly is creating right now, funnily enough.
You'd think on a blog that's stalked by ultra-right-wing racist mouth-breathers, whose host gets threatened from time to time by raging keyboard kommandos, that the commenters who post all the time would understand that some people don't want all their personal information made public.
You'd think on a blog that's stalked by ultra-right-wing racist mouth-breathers, whose host gets threatened from time to time by raging keyboard kommandos, that the commenters who post all the time would understand that some people don't want all their personal information made public.
You'd think that!
*raises hand*
is not caring an option? because it's tough to overstate how little i care.
The madam of a brothel has a problem, so she goes to a local priest. "I have two talking female parrots," she tells him. "All they can say is 'Hi, we're prostitutes. Do you want to have some fun?'"
"That's awful," the priest agrees, "but I have a solution to your problem. I have two male parrots whom I've taught to pray and read the Bible. If we put your parrots with mine, I believe yours will stop saying that awful phrase and will instead learn to recite the word of God."
The next day, the madame brings her parrots to the priest's house and puts them in with the male parrots, who are holding rosary beads and praying in their cage.
"Hi, we're prostitutes," say the females. "Do you want to have some fun?"
One male parrot looks at the other and squawks, "Close that Bible, Frank! Our prayers are answered!"
Is it Portland where they make that Deadman Ale? I remember being at a bar on my 21st last year and the bartender was saying the beer was from Oregon. I remember liking the stuff. I'm more of a stout and German beer kinda guy but I enjoyed that.
Dead Guy Ale, by Rogue. it is! It's a beautiful thing, they make all kinds of very odd beers, including a chipotle ale (!) and a soba ale they collaborated with Morimoto on (!!)
I LOVE German and Belgian beers, my favorite german beers are Schneider Aventinus and Hopfen-Weisse, and Ayinger Celebrator. Really, I love all of it. West coast IPAs, trappists, cask ales, belgian wits, double alts...it's all so very good.
Stouts...depends on the stout. I like Old Rasputin Imperial Stout, not a huge fan of the style, much prefer double bocks and abbey ales for my dark beers.
The notion of separate institutions and society was really pushed forward hardest at the start of this century by Paul Weyrich when he put forth his teaching manifesto.
This essay is based on the belief that the truth of an idea is not the primary reason for its acceptance. Far more important is the energy and dedication of the idea's promoters--in other words, the individuals composing a social or political movement...
We must, as Mr. Weyrich has suggested, develop a network of parallel cultural institutions existing side-by-side with the dominant leftist cultural institutions. The building and promotion of these institutions will require the development of a movement that will not merely reform the existing post-war conservative movement, but will in fact be forced to supersede it--if it is to succeed at all--because it will pursue a very different strategy and be premised on a very different view of its role in society...
A colleague of the UK professor at the centre of the climate e-mails row says "sceptics" have embarked on a "tabloid-style character assassination".
Professor Andrew Watson rallied to the defence of climate scientist Phil Jones, whose e-mail exchanges prompted claims that data had been manipulated.
There was no evidence of attempting to mislead people, Professor Watson added.
The University of East Anglia has commissioned an independent inquiry into the affair.
"Despite the best efforts of the sceptics, there is no instance in these e-mails that anyone has found so far - and there are millions of people looking - that suggests the scientists manipulated their fundamental data," Professor Watson, from the university's School of Environmental Sciences, stated.
Dead Guy Ale, by Rogue. it is! It's a beautiful thing, they make all kinds of very odd beers, including a chipotle ale (!) and a soba ale they collaborated with Morimoto on (!!)
I LOVE German and Belgian beers, my favorite german beers are Schneider Aventinus and Hopfen-Weisse, and Ayinger Celebrator. Really, I love all of it. West coast IPAs, trappists, cask ales, belgian wits, double alts...it's all so very good.
Stouts...depends on the stout. I like Old Rasputin Imperial Stout, not a huge fan of the style, much prefer double bocks and abbey ales for my dark beers.
As for Stouts, I had a really good one in Ireland called Murphy's when I was studying abroad there this summer. Liked it even more than Guinness honestly.
For the beer folk in the room, San Francisco has a new pizza place called "Pi Bar" (the logo is the symbol for 3.14 and a bar, like a cattle brand)...on Valencia St around 25th. Good pizza, and a full menu of local beers on tap as well as a full menu of Belgian beers...so if you're willing to pay up to 56 bucks for a 750 ml bottle of beer, and have some good NY Style pizza (the owner is a NYC native whom I know), then check it out.
For the beer folk in the room, San Francisco has a new pizza place called "Pi Bar" (the logo is the symbol for 3.14 and a bar, like a cattle brand)...on Valencia St around 25th. Good pizza, and a full menu of local beers on tap as well as a full menu of Belgian beers...so if you're willing to pay up to 56 bucks for a 750 ml bottle of beer, and have some good NY Style pizza (the owner is a NYC native whom I know), then check it out.
OK, I think I deserve a Chimay Grand Reserve ale after this week.
Gotta admit, I was actually a bit surprised at all the attention that post got. I didn't really say anything in it that I haven't been posting at LGF for quite a while.
Which is why I was surprised that everyone picked it up...it was only new if people weren't paying attention to LGF since the election.
I guess it takes a single, definitive statement like yours for people to finally take notice...
A lady walks into a drugstore and tells the pharmacist she needs some cyanide. The pharmacist says, "Why in the world do you need cyanide?"
The lady then explains that she needs it to poison her husband. The pharmacist's eyes get big and he says, "I can't give you cyanide to kill your husband! That's against the law! I'll lose my license. They'll throw both of us in jail and all kinds of bad things will happen! Absolutely not—you cannot have any cyanide!"
The lady reaches into her purse and pulls out a picture of her husband in bed with the pharmacist's wife. The pharmacist looks at the picture and says, "Ohhh. Well, now. You didn't tell me you had a prescription!"
OK, I think I deserve a Chimay Grand Reserve ale after this week.
Gotta admit, I was actually a bit surprised at all the attention that post got. I didn't really say anything in it that I haven't been posting at LGF for quite a while.
If you dig the Grand Reserve as much as I do, Urthel Samaranth Quadrupel might knock your socks off. What a beer!
A lady walks into a drugstore and tells the pharmacist she needs some cyanide. The pharmacist says, "Why in the world do you need cyanide?"
The lady then explains that she needs it to poison her husband. The pharmacist's eyes get big and he says, "I can't give you cyanide to kill your husband! That's against the law! I'll lose my license. They'll throw both of us in jail and all kinds of bad things will happen! Absolutely not—you cannot have any cyanide!"
The lady reaches into her purse and pulls out a picture of her husband in bed with the pharmacist's wife. The pharmacist looks at the picture and says, "Ohhh. Well, now. You didn't tell me you had a prescription!"
Which is why I was surprised that everyone picked it up...it was only new if people weren't paying attention to LGF since the election.
I guess it takes a single, definitive statement like yours for people to finally take notice...
Well, it also got picked up by loads of blogs on the left--for people who aren't regular LGF readers and who think of LGF just as "the blog that created the right wing blogisphere" it was big news.
Which is why I was surprised that everyone picked it up...it was only new if people weren't paying attention to LGF since the election.
I guess it takes a single, definitive statement like yours for people to finally take notice...
people read LGF off and on...their opinions don't count, they have faulty preconceived notions about the host...do they know, for example, Charles is a huge Rolling Stones fan?...no?...see what I mean
That reminds me of the joke about the multi-widower who was asked about her husbands
"The first died of eating poison mushrooms."
"And the second?"
"He died from eating poison mushrooms too."
"And the third?"
"Head injury."
"Head injury?"
"Yeah...he wouldn't eat his poison mushrooms."
A boy and his date were parked on a back road some distance from town, doing what boys and girls do on back roads some distance from town, when the girl stopped the boy. "I really should have mentioned this earlier, but I'm actually a hooker and I charge $20 for sex." The boy reluctantly paid her, and they did their thing.
After a cigarette, the boy just sat in the driver's seat looking out the window. "Why aren't we going anywhere?" asked the girl.
"Well, I should have mentioned this earlier, but I'm actually a cab driver, and the fare back to town is $25."
booga booga!...got some stats?...I'd be willing to bet most home schoolers are in it because of the dismal state of public education, not because of Darwin...you are reaching bigtime
Yes, because there are a whole lot of families who cannot afford private schools, but can afford for one parent to stay home and teach the kids...
Sure. Let's blame everything on the dismal public schools.
correct...so we should be worried about the few anti Dawinists and neglect the pathetic state of public education?...why?...the latter is a much larger problem than the former
Of course, Ice said absolutely nothing like that. I hate the term 'strawman', but it was made for moments like these.
A boy and his date were parked on a back road some distance from town, doing what boys and girls do on back roads some distance from town, when the girl stopped the boy. "I really should have mentioned this earlier, but I'm actually a hooker and I charge $20 for sex." The boy reluctantly paid her, and they did their thing.
After a cigarette, the boy just sat in the driver's seat looking out the window. "Why aren't we going anywhere?" asked the girl.
"Well, I should have mentioned this earlier, but I'm actually a cab driver, and the fare back to town is $25."
I must admit to being conflicted.
The economic conservative in me should congratulate both parties in that anecdote, but the "stick up my ass" social zealot in me says I should condemn them.
Ha! She says you've aligned with left-wing fascists! You know, i'd sit down and have a pint with a left-wing fascist if i could find one. Imagine the self-loathing!
re: #257 that's grand lord on high monckton to you
I must admit to being conflicted.
The economic conservative in me should congratulate both parties in that anecdote, but the "stick up my ass" social zealot in me says I should condemn them.
Well, as always, the zealot wins.
I condemn that anecdote!
I think you should demand that all other anecdotes must condemn it as well!
Really thanks. My husband is super supportive and I wouldn't do it if he wasn't 100% on board. He likes to ruffle my feathers every once in a while though lol
Yeah, tell him HE can do it for a week. He'll come back ragged.
A woman's husband comes home hammered every night, and she always yells at him before going to bed alone. One day she decides to try some reverse psychology. When her husband staggers in that night, she's waiting for him in her best lingerie. She sits him in an armchair and gives him a back rub.
"It's getting late, big boy," she says after a few minutes. "Why don't we go upstairs to bed?"
"We might as well," slurs the husband. "I'm going to be in trouble when I get home, anyway."
All that noise about LGF being a "right wing" blog has always been just that - noise. Notice how the label flipped after the election?
People in the comments were right-wing, maybe. But I've always felt the blog itself to be independent, or maybe "unclassifiable", which is why I joined then and I'm still here now, because I don't like classifications for myself, either. And I have to say, I feel a lot more comfortable reading, now that certain political demographics have left for meaner, fringe-ier pastures.
WTF?
House Speaker Glenn Richardson Resigns
Georgia's powerful House speaker has resigned
after a suicide attempt and allegations by his ex-wife of an affair with a lobbyist.
The 49-year-old was once thought to be a serious contender for
governor. He had been silent since his ex-wife claimed this week
that he slept with a lobbyist pushing a $300 million pipeline bill
he was co-sponsoring.
Howdy Lizards. I've got some takeout thai coming my way, and I'm settled down in front of the fireplace. It's cold here, for Texas. I wish everyone a good weekend (even Cato).
A rabbit running through the forest stumbles upon a deer rolling a joint. The rabbit says, "Don't do that. Come running with me. It's much more fun!" The deer takes off with the rabbit.
They come across an elephant doing coke. "Come running with us, elephant," says the rabbit. “You'll feel so good!" The elephant decides to join in the fun, and the whole groups goes off running.
The animals encounter a lion about to shoot up. Before the rabbit can say anything, the lion reaches out with a huge paw and knocks it unconscious. The deer screams, "Lion, what are you doing? He's trying to help us!" The lion answers, "That loser makes me run around the forest like an idiot every time he takes Ecstasy!"
Another POTUS principle goes under the bus, as Desiree is excused from testifying. Funny how things look so different from inside the Oval...
[Link: blogs.cqpolitics.com...]
The shrieking harpy is a one-woman confirmation of everything I wrote in my "Why I Parted Ways with the Right" post. She's completely off her rocker, full of rancid, ugly hatred, promotes anti-scientific woo-woo idiocy, and is a vindictive, evil-minded, ignorant, back-biting creep who should be shunned by any decent person -- but she's a popular blogger on the right.
Two strangers, a man and a woman, find themselves assigned to the same sleeping room on a transcontinental train. Though initially embarrassed and uneasy over sharing a room, they are tired and fall asleep quickly—he in the upper bunk and she in the lower.
At 1 a.m., the man leans over and gently wakes the woman and says, "Ma'am, I'm sorry to bother you, but would you be willing to reach into the closet to get me a second blanket? I'm awfully cold."
"I have a better idea," the woman replies. "Just for tonight, let's pretend we're married."
"Wow! That's a fantastic idea!" he exclaims, with a huge smile on his face.
"Good," she replies. "Now, get your own damn blanket!"
WTF?
House Speaker Glenn Richardson Resigns
Georgia's powerful House speaker has resigned
after a suicide attempt and allegations by his ex-wife of an affair with a lobbyist.
The 49-year-old was once thought to be a serious contender for
governor. He had been silent since his ex-wife claimed this week
that he slept with a lobbyist pushing a $300 million pipeline bill
he was co-sponsoring.
He's at least doing the correct thing by not only giving up the speakership, but also his Rep seat
WTF?
House Speaker Glenn Richardson Resigns
Georgia's powerful House speaker has resigned
after a suicide attempt and allegations by his ex-wife of an affair with a lobbyist.
The 49-year-old was once thought to be a serious contender for
governor. He had been silent since his ex-wife claimed this week
that he slept with a lobbyist pushing a $300 million pipeline bill
he was co-sponsoring.
WTF?
House Speaker Glenn Richardson Resigns
Georgia's powerful House speaker has resigned
after a suicide attempt and allegations by his ex-wife of an affair with a lobbyist.
The 49-year-old was once thought to be a serious contender for
governor. He had been silent since his ex-wife claimed this week
that he slept with a lobbyist pushing a $300 million pipeline bill
he was co-sponsoring.
Wait..she's still harping about being 'smeared' with guilt by association and then...she does the same?
Never mind her monumental FAIL, as even if it's the same Elizabeth May it's a completely different subject and saying you're Pro-Hezbollah is absolutely stupid.
No, what is amazing to me is that she fails to see the hypocrisy in her post.
re: #292 Dark_Falcon
Ya think maybe it's starting to sink in that most people are going to see no change for the better and some people's insurance rates are actually going to rise?
I just took a run through some of the right wing blogs, and the posts about the CRU non-scandal are almost unbelievable. Bizarre irrational rants, dripping with venom and insults, Al Gore, Al Gore, Al Gore, etc.
Completely nuts.
Well, Al Gore presented as bad a picture of AGW as a skeptic could ask. It's full of chicken-little warnings and scientific fudges. With friends like him, we serious types about AGW hardly need enemies.
If it weren't for him and his ilk, we wouldn't have such a hard time convincing the general public that AGW is real and that there are real dangers in proceeding to vent into the atmosphere all the carbon we can mine or pump.
The real danger is rising sea levels. But more hurricanes? Who can say? Hurricanes are ultimately driven by the temperature differential between the cold northern ocean and the warm summer ocean in the lower latitudes. If, as predicted, the north warms more sharply than the south, that differential would be diminished. Why not predict fewer hurricanes?
On top of that, he's made very handsome profits on "carbon offset" schemes that achieve nothing real for the environment. They serve only to provide fig leaves to carbon emitters, and profits to Gore et al. It is only natural that people should resent such profiteering, and this morphs into a suspicion that any and all measures to avert or prepare to cope with global warming are merely profiteering. They aren't. We do need to do some things. But it would have been easier to explain this if we didn't have to explain (or try to explain away) how his agenda isn't really ours.
The shrieking harpy isn't only indicative of the rightblogosphere craziness, unfortunately. People like her are becoming the party and gaining access to it:
Newt Gingrich
Ann Coulter
Fred Thompson
Dutch politician Geert Wilders
Phyllis Schlafly
Jonah Goldberg
Frank Gaffney
Steve Moore
Andrew McCarthy
Rep. Ed Royce (R-Calif.)
Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio)
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.)
Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.)
Liz Cheney
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.)
ACORN videographers James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles
Democratic pollster-turned-Fox News pundit Pat Caddell
for a flavor of the proceedings, here’s video of “Islamofascism” critics Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer.
Ya think maybe it's starting to sink in that most people are going to see no change for the better and some people's insurance rates are actually going to rise?
All that noise about LGF being a "right wing" blog has always been just that - noise. Notice how the label flipped after the election?
People in the comments were right-wing, maybe. But I've always felt the blog itself to be independent, or maybe "unclassifiable", which is why I joined then and I'm still here now, because I don't like classifications for myself, either. And I have to say, I feel a lot more comfortable reading, now that certain political demographics have left for meaner, fringe-ier pastures.
I say LGF is Pro-Science.
That it sometimes put Charles in conflict with the right wing is sad.
You write these jokes very well. It's one thing to tell a joke, it's another thing to be able to write them in such a way that they maintain their humor.
The real danger is rising sea levels. But more hurricanes? Who can say? Hurricanes are ultimately driven by the temperature differential between the cold northern ocean and the warm summer ocean in the lower latitudes. If, as predicted, the north warms more sharply than the south, that differential would be diminished. Why not predict fewer hurricanes?
So true. I've kept a foot out of the AGW camp for ten years now because of nonsense like hurricane intensity garbage. (am pulling the foot in, but still...)
Yeah, I've actually taught in public schools, so I take this kind of paranoid fantasy with a grain of salt.
my mom taught under the NEA for 40 years...big whoop...it's hardly a paranoid fantasy...our children are falling off the scale of superiority, world wide...I have no use for NEA apologists when reality speaks for itself
I don't think so...that was not the question...follow the posts
I did follow the posts. You responded to Ice's post about religious extremists homeschooling (which they do), by suggesting that this was a small group, and that most homeschoolers were fleeing the public schools because of quality. She agreed that the crazies were not the majority of homeschoolers. You responded:
correct...so we should be worried about the few anti Dawinists and neglect the pathetic state of public education?...why?...the latter is a much larger problem than the former
Total strawman. She didn't say we should neglect public education. If I've missed something, please explain where and what.
All that noise about LGF being a "right wing" blog has always been just that - noise. Notice how the label flipped after the election?
People in the comments were right-wing, maybe. But I've always felt the blog itself to be independent, or maybe "unclassifiable", which is why I joined then and I'm still here now, because I don't like classifications for myself, either. And I have to say, I feel a lot more comfortable reading, now that certain political demographics have left for meaner, fringe-ier pastures.
Hear hear (from a "righty" that wasn't raised by wolves).
The shrieking harpy is a one-woman confirmation of everything I wrote in my "Why I Parted Ways with the Right" post. She's completely off her rocker, full of rancid, ugly hatred, promotes anti-scientific woo-woo idiocy, and is a vindictive, evil-minded, ignorant, back-biting creep who should be shunned by any decent person -- but she's a popular blogger on the right.
Sad.
From the other side of the wingularity, it would seem that Geller looks like a great blogger. But for those of us of the same persuasion, everything about her site - from that hilarious gilded avatar of herself to the breathless, idiotic and misspelt posts themselves screams out 'extremist delusional attention seeking nutcase'.
re: #301 Dark_Falcon
The ears who really need to listen up are those thirteen Dem senators who actually have problems with the bill, but are still putting themselves up on the auction block. There needs to be a moneychangers-get-driven-from-the temple moment in DC.
Total strawman. She didn't say we should neglect public education. If I've missed something, please explain where and what.
the point is, why should she be worried about a small minority?...that was obvious...we should be worried instead of the ever worsening state of public ed...pretty simple
From the other side of the wingularity, it would seem that Geller looks like a great blogger. But for those of us of the sane persuasion, everything about her site - from that hilarious gilded avatar of herself to the breathless, idiotic and misspelt posts themselves screams out 'extremist delusional attention seeking nutcase'.
Oldest is doing 2nd/3rd grade because he just turned 8, 5 yo is doing kindy and we just read to and play with the baby.
I use a Charlotte Mason approach which uses a lot of living books and is very nature/science oriented. I use Modern Curriculum Press for math and phonics, although I may be switching to Saxon Phonics for the 5yo.
We belong to a homechool co-op which meets every other week for a full day plus a large military homeschooling group. They do a couple of field trips a month which my kids all love. Everything from farms, museums, businesses, parks. The oldest two take swim lessons once a week at the YMCA.
We keep pretty busy and it works well for our family.
I was invited to that event a few years ago, and had the sense to refuse.
Geller, Spencer, and Bostom. The three most hate-filled, dishonest people in the anti-Muslim blogosphere. Promoted as experts, and battening like ticks on the misery of the Rifqa Bary case.
A burglar broke into a house one night. He picked up a CD player to place in his sack and a strange, disembodied voice echoed from the dark, saying, "Jesus is watching you."
He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight off, and froze. When he heard nothing more after a bit, he shook his head, clicked the light on, and began searching for more valuables. Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, he heard, "Jesus is watching you."
Freaked out, he shined his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot. "Did you say that?" he hissed at the parrot "Yep," the parrot confessed, then squawked, "I'm just trying to warn you."
The burglar relaxed. "Warn me, huh? Who in the world are you?"
"Moses," replied the bird.
"Moses?" the burglar laughed. "What kind of people would name a bird Moses?"
"The same kind of people that would name a rottweiler Jesus."
Howdy Lizards. I've got some takeout thai coming my way, and I'm settled down in front of the fireplace. It's cold here, for Texas. I wish everyone a good weekend (even Cato).
Ah yes. The shrieking harpy. The creme de la creme of the right wing blogging world. The half-wit intellectual-challenged partner of the orbicular pseudo-scholar. The leaders of the Cartoon Channel version of the anti-jihadist chair force along with their equally famous gummiferous aerobe.
my mom taught under the NEA for 40 years...big whoop...it's hardly a paranoid fantasy...our children are falling off the scale of superiority, world wide...I have no use for NEA apologists when reality speaks for itself
I have no use for people who can't discuss real problems in American education, and just want to point at the NEA and scream "liberals! It's their fault!" Especially since the attacks on teachers unions is directly linked to some deeply bad ideas currently popular in education which will not see good results if they become widespread.
If you want to discuss education reform, fine. But discuss it. Don't point fingers and demonize.
What? Have you ever met a monster Nose tackle that would destroy you in a second? It's pretty bad when they weight 340 lbs and run a 4.6 and trash any man in front of them...
*wink*
I was invited to that event a few years ago, and had the sense to refuse.
Geller, Spencer, and Bostom. The three most hate-filled people in the anti-Muslim blogosphere. Promoted as experts, and battening like ticks on the Rifqa Bary case.
President Barack Obama will push back his visit to the international climate change treaty negotiations in Copenhagen from the first week of the conference to its final scheduled day, a senior White House official said this afternoon.
By switching his visit from Dec. 9 to Dec. 18, Obama appears to be betting that his presence can - as he has expressed hope for several times in the past - push the negotiations "over the top" toward an agreement.
This also will mean two Scandanavian journeys for the president: He will fly to Oslo for the Dec. 10 awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize and was going to pair that with his stop iin Copenhagen. Now, he will have to return to Denmark the following week.
ZOMG HIPPOCRIT OBAMA WILL FLY TO SWEDIN TWICE! CARBON CREDITS! AL GORE!
UPDATE 1: OBAMA NOW FLYIN TO NORWAY: RONDAYVOO W SEEKRIT MUSLIMS EXPECTED
UPDATE 2: SOURCES TELL ME OSLO IN NORWAY. IS THIS SEPERATE COUNTRY? PLS CONFeRM
UPDATE 3: OBAMA ADDS DENMARK TO TRIP; WILL EAT ARUGULA, SPIT ON FLAG.
One afternoon, a wealthy lawyer was riding in the back of his limousine when he saw two men eating grass by the roadside. He ordered his driver to stop and he got out to investigate.
"Why are you eating grass?" he asked one man.
"We don't have any money for food," the poor man replied.
"Oh, well, you can come with me to my house," instructed the lawyer.
"But, sir, I have a wife and two kids with me!"
"Bring them along!" said the lawyer. He turned to the other man and said, "You come with us, too."
"But, Sir, I have a wife and six kids!" he answered.
"Bring them, as well!" answered the lawyer, as he headed for his limo.
They all climbed into the car, which was no easy task, even for a car as large as the limousine. Once underway, one of the poor fellows says, "Sir, you are too kind. Thank you for taking all of us with you."
The lawyer replied, "Glad to do it. You'll love my place. The grass is almost a foot tall!"
the point is, why should she be worried about a small minority?...that was obvious...we should be worried instead of the ever worsening state of public ed...pretty simple
Apples and oranges. We can't observe a trend in the religious right and think about public schools at the same time? No one who homeschools for any reason can be criticized if the public schools are in bad shape?
it did in front of Picket's Charge...it will again, imo
At Gettysburg the center had a fair bit of help from General Hunt's artillery on the flanks. Hancock's men were outnumbered 3-1. Without the Union's immense superiority in artillery the battle would have had a different outcome.
I have no use for people who can't discuss real problems in American education, and just want to point at the NEA and scream "liberals! It's their fault!" Especially since the attacks on teachers unions is directly linked to some deeply bad ideas currently popular in education which will not see good results if they become widespread.
If you want to discuss education reform, fine. But discuss it. Don't point fingers and demonize.
too bad...the NEA is obviously the demon...don't blame me, I had nothing to do with it...unions and education don't mix
If it weren't for him and his ilk, we wouldn't have such a hard time convincing the general public that AGW is real and that there are real dangers in proceeding to vent into the atmosphere all the carbon we can mine or pump.
I disagree. There always has been, and probably always will be, resistance to the notion that humans are responsible for environmental degradation. Add to that the religious resistance to anything that puts man in (at least a modicum of) control of his own fate, and you have a potent political mix in this country that would resist taking AGW seriously.
What? Have you ever met a monster Nose tackle that would destroy you in a second? It's pretty bad when they weight 340 lbs and run a 4.6 and trash any man in front of them...
*wink*
yes, Pro Bowler, Jay Ratliff
Dallas Cowboy, and thanks for asking
Oldest is doing 2nd/3rd grade because he just turned 8, 5 yo is doing kindy and we just read to and play with the baby.
I use a Charlotte Mason approach which uses a lot of living books and is very nature/science oriented. I use Modern Curriculum Press for math and phonics, although I may be switching to Saxon Phonics for the 5yo.
We belong to a homechool co-op which meets every other week for a full day plus a large military homeschooling group. They do a couple of field trips a month which my kids all love. Everything from farms, museums, businesses, parks. The oldest two take swim lessons once a week at the YMCA.
We keep pretty busy and it works well for our family.
MCP has some good materials. I used them when I worked for Sylvan Learning Center, and I like their stuff.
Sounds fun!
(I'm jealous. I think I'd like to homeschool, but I'm not sure it would work out. We'll see where we are once the kids are actually born.)
At Gettysburg the center had a fair bit of help from General Hunt's artillery on the flanks. Hancock's men were outnumbered 3-1. Without the Union's immense superiority in artillery the battle would have had a different outcome.
I know that, but we live in the TV world now...Lee put Pickett in an impossible crossfire...genius eh?
ZOMG HIPPOCRIT OBAMA WILL FLY TO SWEDIN TWICE! CARBON CREDITS! AL GORE!
UPDATE 1: OBAMA NOW FLYIN TO NORWAY: RONDAYVOO W SEEKRIT MUSLIMS EXPECTED
UPDATE 2: SOURCES TELL ME OSLO IN NORWAY. IS THIS SEPERATE COUNTRY? PLS CONFeRM
UPDATE 3: OBAMA ADDS DENMARK TO TRIP; WILL EAT ARUGULA, SPIT ON FLAG.
/Atlas Shrieks post in about 2 days.
A sane conservative criticism would read like this:
Obama once again wants it to be all about him. He doesn't want to do the heavy lifting of negotiations, he just wants to claim he was the one who scored the final victory with his messianic decent into the summit. The ego of that man knows no bounds, and that's part of why I still despise him.
I disagree. There always has been, and probably always will be, resistance to the notion that humans are responsible for environmental degradation. Add to that the religious resistance to anything that puts man in (at least a modicum of) control of his own fate, and you have a potent political mix in this country that would resist taking AGW seriously.
I disagree. The last, last thing you want as a cheerleader for a scientific cause is someone who plays as fast and loose with the facts as AlG did. Kept folks like me on the sidelines for a long, long time.
I neither resist the notion that we are responsible for environmental degradation, nor religiously resist anything that puts me in control of my fate. I simply heard scientists say "well, no, the film wasn't 100% accurate in some respects...but we're happy that it raised awareness" and i threw up a little bit in my mouth.
education from kindergarten through high school is 20% reading and math, and 80% social skills... that's it.
All of the home schooled kids I have met over the past several years are social rejects. Big problem. Their parents think they are doing them a favor, but they aren't.
And the comment above about kids being home-schooled while attending public school was a bulls eye...
re: #76 Spare O'Lake
In what universe do you see Obama's foreign policy as ' veering to the right '? He's practically told the Taliban ' just sit tight, we're outta here in eighteen months, and you can have it all back.'
A sane conservative criticism would read like this:
Obama once again wants it to be all about him. He doesn't want to do the heavy lifting of negotiations, he just wants to claim he was the one who scored the final victory with his messianic decent into the summit. The ego of that man knows no bounds, and that's part of why I still despise him.
This could be an opportunity for Sarah Palin...she could go to Copenhagen first (that is, if she has a passport yet), and wink at everyone and give a 'Drill, baby, drill' speech and health care, you know, because President Obama hates the troops and might have been born in Copenhagen, you betcha...
Of course, she thinks Copenhagen is just something that leaves a ring in your pocket.
yes, Pro Bowler, Jay Ratliff
Dallas Cowboy, and thanks for asking
Good call..When my boy got home from Iraq I met Steve Wright from the Cowboys at Camp P. He was there at 1:30am to greet our Marines from Iraq
home..I am ever proud of our unsung heros that spend hours outside a Marine Base to say thank you my fellow Marine...
I am very proud of our American heros
I disagree. There always has been, and probably always will be, resistance to the notion that humans are responsible for environmental degradation. Add to that the religious resistance to anything that puts man in (at least a modicum of) control of his own fate, and you have a potent political mix in this country that would resist taking AGW seriously.
That's true, and there is also some strange cognitive dissonance about science itself going on. Many of the anti-AGW types switch seamlessly from a position of complete contempt for scientists ("They are frauds, they're making money, they treat Darwin like a religion", etc) to a position of total childlike faith in it. ("Humans can't destroy the environment, and if we did do damage science will figure out a way to fix it without us doing anything".
They'll switch between these positions and barely take a breath in between.
look at the history, the facts and the results...if you deny the NEA has no role in the fall of American education you are blind...I don't have any patients for apologies, I want results and home schooling is providing it...chew on that while you cut your dues check...where is the problem?, who's responsible?...pay your fee and argue about it...good for you
look at the history, the facts and the results...if you deny the NEA has no role in the fall of American education you are blind...I don't have any patients for apologies, I want results and home schooling is providing it...chew on that while you cut your dues check...where is the problem?, who's responsible?...pay your fee and argue about it...good for you
Not at all... the concept of free will is a basic tenet of Judaeo-Christian theology.
Tell that to John Calvin.
Even among the free-will crowd, the usual application is to the individual soteriological beliefs, and not often to society as a whole, and almost never to "creation".
Quite dominant among the anti-AGW-science crowd are complaints of environmentalism as a "religion". They see acceptance of AGW as a belief, which will compete with their own beliefs.
look at the history, the facts and the results...if you deny the NEA has no role in the fall of American education you are blind...I don't have any patients for apologies, I want results and home schooling is providing it...chew on that while you cut your dues check...where is the problem?, who's responsible?...pay your fee and argue about it...good for you
I would be alarmed if you had any patients at all.
I know that, but we live in the TV world now...Lee put Pickett in an impossible crossfire...genius eh?
For once Robert E. Lee put himself on 'Tilt'. He could not believe that, when the chips were down, the Union army would stand and fight. His blindness got thousands of his men killed.
Yes you do and I'm joining you with a Meyers and coke, the interview was well done.
If someone had told me a few days ago that I would register at LGFs and be having a ball posting here, I would have thought they'd lost their mind. Thanks for giving us this open forum.
That's true, and there is also some strange cognitive dissonance about science itself going on. Many of the anti-AGW types switch seamlessly from a position of complete contempt for scientists ("They are frauds, they're making money, they treat Darwin like a religion", etc) to a position of total childlike faith in it. ("Humans can't destroy the environment, and if we did do damage science will figure out a way to fix it without us doing anything".
They'll switch between these positions and barely take a breath in between.
Eh. It's on both fringes. Moonbats will switch between "we're superheating the globe with our carbon emissions" and "no more nuclear power" and barely take a breath in between.
Only thing the fringe is good for is my golf ball (because if i land on the fringe, i must be playing better than normal!)
Good call..When my boy got home from Iraq I met Steve Wright from the Cowboys at Camp P. He was there at 1:30am to greet our Marines from Iraq
home..I am ever proud of our unsung heros that spend hours outside a Marine Base to say thank you my fellow Marine...
I am very proud of our American heros
on that point we are in agreement...I choke up...can't help it...these are all our sons and daughters, they are our children and our future
In what universe do you see Obama's foreign policy as ' veering to the right '? He's practically told the Taliban ' just sit tight, we're outta here in eighteen months, and you can have it all back.'
Actually he said start bringing back, not all out. Lots of wiggle room still there and lots of unhappy people on the left too.
MCP has some good materials. I used them when I worked for Sylvan Learning Center, and I like their stuff.
Sounds fun!
(I'm jealous. I think I'd like to homeschool, but I'm not sure it would work out. We'll see where we are once the kids are actually born.)
I really like MCP a lot. Very to the point without a lot of fluff and filler.
My oldest actually did public school kindergarten. It did not work out well for him partly because we had redshirted him. Since he was ahead, he finished his work early and that is not good for a 6yo boy. This is our second year homeschooling and everyone is much happier. And now when my husband gets deployed I could go home to family easily because I don't have to pull kids out of one school and put them in another for 6 months.
I hope the children and homeschooling work out for you :-)
In what universe do you see Obama's foreign policy as ' veering to the right '? He's practically told the Taliban ' just sit tight, we're outta here in eighteen months, and you can have it all back.'
I had a letter composed just fof that occasion
"Dear Mullah (lefteye) Omar.
It has come to my attention via relibale cable news stations that the Americans are coming in force. Fear not, brave warrior. Take your men to the villages and cities and mingle for the next 18 months. The infidels will be leaving and we can HAVE IT ALL BACK!
Yes, good observations. Many in the religio-right treat science like teenagers treat parents. There is wild vacillation between science being the source of all evil, and then science being the savior.
I think I've said this once before: IMO the "right" in America are intellectual juvenile delinquents trying to dress up in adult clothes.
In what universe do you see Obama's foreign policy as ' veering to the right '? He's practically told the Taliban ' just sit tight, we're outta here in eighteen months, and you can have it all back.'
Not doing an immediate troop pullout from both Iraq and Afghanistan is an example. Quite a few folks are disappointed he didn't.
I was invited to that event a few years ago, and had the sense to refuse.
Geller, Spencer, and Bostom. The three most hate-filled, dishonest people in the anti-Muslim blogosphere. Promoted as experts, and battening like ticks on the Rifqa Bary case.
IIRC you also turned down several invitations to CPAC, for similar reasons. This looks far worse than even CPAC has been
I had to quit watching that video after 8 minutes, when pammycakes was in full throttle about the Bary case. Disgusting. Geller is a disturbed individual. One look at her site should be enough to tell anyone that. She has a weird attraction to stories of death and violence, a fondness for graphic images of same, and she especially loves the violence against women. IIRC Bary isn't the first young female she's seized on and decided to make a 'personal cause' -- there was that other girl for whom she raised money for a memorial of some sort, some sort of horrible grandstanding attention getting ploy that violated the privacy and wishes of the family.
It bothers me that people read Geller, but it bothers me more that people like John Bolton are associating with her and lending her credibility. (not to mention all the GOP people at this event).
Yes, good observations. Many in the religio-right treat science like teenagers treat parents. There is wild vacillation between science being the source of all evil, and then science being the savior.
I think I've said this once before: IMO the "right" fringe in America are intellectual juvenile delinquents trying to dress up in adult clothes.
The right doesn't have a lock on juvenile delinquency, copain.
This could be an opportunity for Sarah Palin...she could go to Copenhagen first (that is, if she has a passport yet), and wink at everyone and give a 'Drill, baby, drill' speech and health care, you know, because President Obama hates the troops and might have been born in Copenhagen, you betcha...
Of course, she thinks Copenhagen is just something that leaves a ring in your pocket.
Sarah Palin is even less qualified to handle diplomatic negotiations than Barack Obama. He at least has some insight into the motives and goals of the other players involved. Sarah Palin understands the USA's interests in the issue and probably Canada's, but she'd be at a loss dealing with the rest of the nations there. Palin also does not seem to be very coachable, and that is a major problem for high level negotiations.
re: #369 freetoken
There are certainly similarities between some organized religious sects and some segments of those who preach the gospel of global warming with prophetic fervor and rending of garments. Both can be intolerant of outside beliefs and resent questioning of theirs. Both are sometimes found with their hands out, soliciting donations nonstop. Both have been known to cast out members of the congregation who they consider blasphemous. And both claim powers of prophecy re what's going to happen next.
Please note the qualifiers above for both groups: some, not all or most.
Sarah Palin is even less qualified to handle diplomatic negotiations than Barack Obama. He at least has some insight into the motives and goals of the other players involved. Sarah Palin understands the USA's interests in the issue and probably Canada's, but she'd be at a loss dealing with the rest of the nations there. Palin also does not seem to be very coachable, and that is a major problem for high level negotiations.
Barack Obama's actually doing a pretty good job on the international front so far...granted, he's not what you want, but he's what we've got, and a definite improvement over what we had.
Those aren't the homeschoolers you need to worry about. It's the ones being homeschooled not to further their chances of getting into an excellent university, but being homeschooled in order to isolate them from exposure to mainstream culture and from wacky notions like evolution.
Those are the ones being set on the track that runs through a Bible college and into local politics at grassroots levels--and they're scary.
I know some homeschoolers who are doing it to isolate their children from the evil clutches of capitalism and to teach them that chemistry is bad unless you distill it from hemp. Seriously, there are whackjob homeschoolers on all sides of the crazee. This one little boy I know is growing up believing that the words "organic" and "sustainable" mean "holy" and "blessed", and that holier-than-thou is a virtue. He's going to be in for a shock.
And I'm betting that his mother, whose four-year-old Little Man, as she cloyingly calls him, she thinks is the most moral creature on the planet (because of her parenting), will be in for a surprise when he rebels and starts drinking Bud Lite, hunting elk and smoking cigars.
Do you folks who continue to insist that global warming is a "religion" realize that you're implicitly admitting that there's something "inferior" about religion?
A sane conservative criticism would read like this:
Obama once again wants it to be all about him. He doesn't want to do the heavy lifting of negotiations, he just wants to claim he was the one who scored the final victory with his messianic decent into the summit. The ego of that man knows no bounds, and that's part of why I still despise him.
See, even that critique is one that I find too emotion laden and not enough factual or substantive disagreement. It wouldn't persuade anyone who didn't already dislike Obama.
BTW, Jimmah-Ice Productions' next video, which has been delayed by recent events, is a Pam Geller video. We'll try and finish this weekend!
C'mon man, that's what passes for normal in the Happy Valley. I was once chastised in Wendell for making fun of the Witches yelping in the woods. The go fuck yourself retort was not appreciated!
my mom taught under the NEA for 40 years...big whoop...it's hardly a paranoid fantasy...our children are falling off the scale of superiority, world wide...I have no use for NEA apologists when reality speaks for itself
Our children are falling off the scale of superiority because unlike parents in some countries, Merkins use their electronic babysitters (teevee, video games, more teevee, computers, mobile phones, DVD players in the backseats of cars, etc.) up to 12 hours a day to pacify the little ones right out of their natural curiosity.
But then a little less fantasized superiority will do us good in a world where "we're number one!" doesn't cut much ice anymore.
re: #400 Cato the Elder
Oh, I have one for you. The other day I was in a line at a store and a home-school field trip came through. One of the moms in front of me had along for the ride a three year old or so little girl, and since I was passing out (organic) oat rings to a friend's toddler, and the child was looking at me like I was holding diamonds, I asked the mom if she would like one.
The Mom smiled and said ' Thanks, but we haven't started solids yet'.
I know some homeschoolers who are doing it to isolate their children from the evil clutches of capitalism and to teach them that chemistry is bad unless you distill it from hemp. Seriously, there are whackjob homeschoolers on all sides of the crazee. This one little boy I know is growing up believing that the words "organic" and "sustainable" mean "holy" and "blessed", and that holier-than-thou is a virtue. He's going to be in for a shock.
And I'm betting that his mother, whose four-year-old Little Man, as she cloyingly calls him, she thinks is the most moral creature on the planet (because of her parenting), will be in for a surprise when he rebels and starts drinking Bud Lite, hunting elk and smoking cigars.
Those who elevate the children to the status of adults are in for a world of hurt one day.
Do you folks who continue to insist that global warming is a "religion" realize that you're implicitly admitting that there's something "inferior" about religion?
Just askin'.
You think? I haven't put it that way, but i've read those posts from the angle that for the most part, your religion relies at least partially on faith. Whereas AGW should not rely on faith, but on hard data.
So in that sense, i read it as implicitly admitting that religion requires faith. Not sure that equates to inferior, unless i miss your point.
The right doesn't have a lock on juvenile delinquency, copain.
Oh, yes, that is quite true. However, I was responding to IW's post and in the context of what has been a popular topic around here.
The teenager view of parents - the binary, 1 or 0, black or white, manifests itself in the Right in America on several subjects. Government for one. Science is another.
re: #404 Charles
If you're tawkin' to me, I don't think it's a religion at all.
I think there are similarities between some religious sects and some proponents that It's All Our Fault and Only We Can Fix It.
Do you folks who continue to insist that global warming is a "religion" realize that you're implicitly admitting that there's something "inferior" about religion?
Just askin'.
I don't think global warming is a religion. I think catastrophism is.
Perhaps what they're implying is that global warming makes an inferior religion.
Yes, good observations. Many in the religio-right treat science like teenagers treat parents. There is wild vacillation between science being the source of all evil, and then science being the savior.
I think I've said this once before: IMO the "right" in America are intellectual juvenile delinquents trying to dress up in adult clothes.
They are for now, that's for sure. And for the foreseeable future, unfortunately.
Any political ideology that considers Jonah Goldberg a leading intellectual is in a state of collapse.
I like the teenager analogy. Works for some of the fantasies about liberals too: "Nanny state! Don't tell me not to smoke! I'll vote for X because X makes liberals heads explode, so there!"
It's frightening how the politics of teenage resentment constitute an intellectual tradition, for some. The Beltway wisdom has always been that it's the left that is immature, hippies, naive, childlike-- a narrative they love to push whether it's bashing antiwar protestors or the idea of diplomacy. But as you note it's the right that has been having the equivalent of teenage angst (when it's not the full-on tantrum of the terrible two year old) for quite a while now.
Our children are falling off the scale of superiority because unlike parents in some countries, Merkins use their electronic babysitters (teevee, video games, more teevee, computers, mobile phones, DVD players in the backseats of cars, etc.) up to 12 hours a day to pacify the little ones right out of their natural curiosity.
But then a little less fantasized superiority will do us good in a world where "we're number one!" doesn't cut much ice anymore.
I'm not quite sold on the idea that we are falling anywhere. Our numbers look bade compared to homogeneous countries, but we actually are trying to educate people who would never have had a chance a generation or so ago. My FIL got to third grade in a one-room school. His wife did 1 yr of high school. Both got GEDs. Disclaimer: My daughter is an NEA thug.
Oh, yes, that is quite true. However, I was responding to IW's post and in the context of what has been a popular topic around here.
The teenager view of parents - the binary, 1 or 0, black or white, manifests itself in the Right in America on several subjects. Government for one. Science is another.
See, even that critique is one that I find too emotion laden and not enough factual or substantive disagreement. It wouldn't persuade anyone who didn't already dislike Obama.
BTW, Jimmah-Ice Productions' next video, which has been delayed by recent events, is a Pam Geller video. We'll try and finish this weekend!
It's tough for me to get past point like those I just made where Obama is concerned. He offends me some badly, that it hard to see how can appeal to others. It's an unusual failure of imagination on my part.
Do you folks who continue to insist that global warming is a "religion" realize that you're implicitly admitting that there's something "inferior" about religion?
It's tough for me to get past point like those I just made where Obama is concerned. He offends me some badly, that it hard to see how can appeal to others. It's an unusual failure of imagination on my part.
Sometimes that happens; the honest people are able to admit it when it happens and keep and eye on it, and that's one reason among many why I always like your posts no matter how vehemently we may disagree-- because I know you are always honest and always a gentleman.
FWIW I feel that way about Palin now, pretty much.
You think? I haven't put it that way, but i've read those posts from the angle that for the most part, your religion relies at least partially on faith. Whereas AGW should not rely on faith, but on hard data.
So in that sense, i read it as implicitly admitting that religion requires faith. Not sure that equates to inferior, unless i miss your point.
And the idea that the mountains of scientific evidence in favor of global warming is equivalent to "faith" is so bizarre that I keep coming back to this: comparing the science of global warming to "faith" is implicitly admitting that "faith" is somehow "less" than "science."
It's telling that this very same talking point is an extremely common tactic of creationists -- "Darwinism" is a "religion." If I had a dollar for every time someone posted that in LGF's creationism threads I'd be living in Al Gore's house.
re: #412 MandyManners
The remark from a Mom that always makes me want to gag:
"We're more like buddies than mother and daughter/son".
Too bad . Kids have buddies at school. At home, they need parents.
I disagree. There always has been, and probably always will be, resistance to the notion that humans are responsible for environmental degradation. Add to that the religious resistance to anything that puts man in (at least a modicum of) control of his own fate, and you have a potent political mix in this country that would resist taking AGW seriously.
I agree with your disagree. :-) What I mean is, it would be hard enough without Gore, for the reasons you cite. re: #404 Charles
Do you folks who continue to insist that global warming is a "religion" realize that you're implicitly admitting that there's something "inferior" about religion?
Just askin'.
From the point of view of say C.S. Lewis, there are religions, and then there is the truth. People of faith have no problem with the idea that "religion", in general, is just another superstition. Their own faith being a special exception, and the truth.
But science, and global warming as an aspect of science, is not a faith, except as a corollary of the implicit faith that reality makes sense if you think it through.
It's another example of the cognitive dissonance I mentioned above. They intend to denigrate the science by referring to it dismissively as held by blind faith, or a religion. At the same time they try to co-opt the prestige of science by adopting for themselves the position of the real sceptics, the real objective truth seekers.
It's an interesting kind of reversal. It suggests that they secretly find rationality and science more credible than faith...which may well be a clue to why they despise science so much.
From that angle, i'm sure they don't see it. If they can't see that evolution is not faith, they certainly can't take the extra step to see what it must say about their faith to believe that we're taking evolution on faith.
The remark from a Mom that always makes me want to gag:
"We're more like buddies than mother and daughter/son".
Too bad . Kids have buddies at school. At home, they need parents.
we were both, it can be done...but it starts at the cradle, not at 12 years old
Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson go on a camping trip, set up their tent, and fall asleep.
Some hours later, Holmes wakes his faithful friend. "Watson, look up at the sky and tell me what you see."
Watson replies, "I see millions of stars."
"What does that tell you?"
Watson ponders for a minute. "Astronomically speaking, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, it tells me that Saturn is in Leo. Time-wise, it appears to be approximately a quarter past 3. Theologically, it's evident the Lord is all-powerful and we are small and insignificant. Meteorologically, it seems we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you?"
Holmes is silent for a moment, then speaks. "Watson, you idiot, someone has stolen our tent."
It's another example of the cognitive dissonance I mentioned above. They intend to denigrate the science by referring to it dismissively as held by blind faith, or a religion. At the same time they try to co-opt the prestige of science by adopting for themselves the position of the real sceptics, the real objective truth seekers.
It's an interesting kind of reversal. It suggests that they secretly find rationality and science more credible than faith...which may well be a clue to why they despise science so much.
I would say that the neoMarxists enviroweenies deem the Green movement as quasi religious...they seem to despise science as well
One day the club duffer challenged the local golf pro to a match, with a $500 bet on the side. "But," said the duffer, "since you're obviously much better than I am, to even it a bit you have to spot me two 'gotchas.'" The golf pro didn't know what a "gotcha" was, but he went along with it. And off they went.
Coming back to the 19th hole, the rest of the club members were amazed to see the golf pro paying the duffer $500. "What happened?" asked one of the members.
"Well," said the pro, "I was teeing up for the first hole, and as I brought the club down, the jerk stuck his hand up between my legs and grabbed my crotch while yelling 'Gotcha!' Have you ever tried to play 18 holes of golf waiting for the second 'gotcha'?"
It's another example of the cognitive dissonance I mentioned above. They intend to denigrate the science by referring to it dismissively as held by blind faith, or a religion. At the same time they try to co-opt the prestige of science by adopting for themselves the position of the real sceptics, the real objective truth seekers.
It's an interesting kind of reversal. It suggests that they secretly find rationality and science more credible than faith...which may well be a clue to why they despise science so much.
Possibly because their religion ends with their own particular denomination. Which is very common. So they feel free to castigate it as a religion just as they do with religions outside of their own denominations in their bigoted world.
From that angle, i'm sure they don't see it. If they can't see that evolution is not faith,
Oh but they do see it. That's why it isn't sufficient to leave matters of faith for Sundays, or for the parents-- that's why they need to see their faith taught in classrooms as if it were science, and why they need to water down the science as much as possible, down to a sticker on a textbook saying "evolution is only a theory kids, don't try it at home" -- because they do see that faith, even theirs, doesn't have the evidential heft of science. ID is nothing more than an attempt to co-opt the status and intellectual prestige of science, while also wedging it into science curricula (and thereby mainstreaming it).
they certainly can't take the extra step to see what it must say about their faith to believe that we're taking evolution on faith.
Can they take that step? Probably, in theory. Will they? Almost certainly not. The psychological toll would be too great.
Quasi-religious? The Gaia devotees have taken it past quasi, methinks.
But it is important to understand that many people who regard AGW as a grave threat are not such devotees. Ludwig and Austin, with their support of nuclear power, surely are not. Nor are Jimmah and iceweasel. There are indeed many people who what action on climate change who are Neo-Luddites, but they are not the majority of the people who want action.
But science, and global warming as an aspect of science, is not a faith, except as a corollary of the implicit faith that reality makes sense if you think it through.
Implicit faith, eh?
Anyone who thinks reality makes sense has never thought about it for more than five minutes.
Charles ... there is a sharp lady psychologist (her name escapes me just now) that advocates doing something new and challenging every 90 days - if nothing more than getting your juices stirred up - your criteria for challenging your belief systems now and then fits right in. I hadn't thot of it in that context before.
I'd pay to see an exorcism contest among Dawkins, the Pope, and Benny Hinn.
Technically, the Pope would be the only from that list certified to perform an exorcism. In any event as long as Benny Hinn loses that would be a victory for the Dominion of Ceiling Cats.
Possibly. But i'm speaking from experience, have had the pleasure of engaging folks who hold evolution to be a religion. Mostly they feel that science looks down on their faith, so it must be terribly insulting to tell someone that their snooty scientific theory is just as faith-based.
Nothing more subtle than that. Although they tended not to appreciate my recommendation that they spend less time telling me that the theory needed to be taken on faith and more time studying the theory.
But it is important to understand that many people who regard AGW as a grave threat are not such devotees. Ludwig and Austin, with their support of nuclear power, surely are not. Nor are Jimmah and iceweasel. There are indeed many people who what action on climate change who are Neo-Luddites, but they are not the majority of the people who want action.
Right, you were talking about neo-marxist enviroweenies. so was i. i didn't say that they were the basis of AGW. just saying that there was pure religion to be found in that quarter as well.
Just as an aside, Lizards: I am constantly looking for new employment opportunities. Anything involving writing, editing or translating would suit. Have internet, no need to travel.
Just as an aside, Lizards: I am constantly looking for new employment opportunities. Anything involving writing, editing or translating would suit. Have internet, no need to travel.
Sorry Ace, but I you can't place the blame on someone else for something you did or didn't do. As adults we should each be responsible for our own actions shouldn't we?
I'm a little late to this thread, but I think this anecdote is appropriate.
About a month ago, the Soap Girl was looking over my shoulder as I was read the comments here. She asked what I was reading.
Me: "It's a blog."
Her: "What kind? Conservative or Liberal."
Me: "Honesty, it's hard to say. It's kind of both and neither at the same time."
Her: "That's weird."
Me: "It just has conservative members and liberal members. They discuss things without shouting in all caps, stereotyping or petty insults."
Possibly. But i'm speaking from experience, have had the pleasure of engaging folks who hold evolution to be a religion. Mostly they feel that science looks down on their faith, so it must be terribly insulting to tell someone that their snooty scientific theory is just as faith-based.
Nothing more subtle than that.
Isn't that weird though? For example-- I'm an atheist. Suppose someone looks down on me for being an atheist. It wouldn't occur to me that the worst insult I could throw at someone is...that they're an atheist.
Similarly for anything else-- I once was Catholic. It wouldn't have occurred to me then to throw Catholic as an insult. (anymore than it would now).
There's something really off about imagining that an accusation of believing something on faith is insulting in and of itself-- when you are a person who believes that some facts can only be known or apprehended via faith.
My sister-in-law was reading Brother's Grimm fairy tales to my daughter at my step-mom's house. My SIL started to edit out the blood and fearful scenes as she was reading. I said "you can't edit that!". She doesn't have kids and didn't want to scare my daughter. I told her the gruesome Brothers Grimm is where my daughter had started to learn about the big, bad world.
Now we are onto learning about, ahem, sexual stuff. Maybe even more gruesome and scary! I plan to scare chastity into her with horrible stories of STDs. Hope it works!
Sorry Ace, but I you can't place the blame on someone else for something you did or didn't do. As adults we should each be responsible for our own actions shouldn't we?
No. We rely on smart people to tell us what they're seeing in the climate. I would expect a smart person whose data spoke for itself to just say "hey, that guy is way off. here is what my data says." A scientist who recruits bad hyperbole to 'raise awareness' is a scientist whom i trust a bit less to let the data speak for itself.
Being designated an expert means calling it as you see it. AGW can be the real deal and InConTruth can still be a stinky pile of yak dung.
My sister-in-law was reading Brother's Grimm fairy tales to my daughter at my step-mom's house. My SIL started to edit out the blood and fearful scenes as she was reading. I said "you can't edit that!". She doesn't have kids and didn't want to scare my daughter. I told her the gruesome Brothers Grimm is where my daughter had started to learn about the big, bad world.
Now we are onto learning about, ahem, sexual stuff. Maybe even more gruesome and scary! I plan to scare chastity into her with horrible stories of STDs. Hope it works!
In the original Grimm's, the princess does not kiss the frog to turn it into a prince, she turns it into a prince by throwing it against a wall as hard as she can.
No. We rely on smart people to tell us what they're seeing in the climate. I would expect a smart person whose data spoke for itself to just say "hey, that guy is way off. here is what my data says." A scientist who recruits bad hyperbole to 'raise awareness' is a scientist whom i trust a bit less to let the data speak for itself.
Being designated an expert means calling it as you see it. AGW can be the real deal and InConTruth can still be a stinky pile of yak dung.
Isn't that weird though? For example-- I'm an atheist. Suppose someone looks down on me for being an atheist. It wouldn't occur to me that the worst insult I could throw at someone is...that they're an atheist.
Similarly for anything else-- I once was Catholic. It wouldn't have occurred to me then to throw Catholic as an insult. (anymore than it would now).
There's something really off about imagining that an accusation of believing something on faith is insulting in and of itself-- when you are a person who believes that some facts can only be known or apprehended via faith.
Really? You are a person who believes in God (whichever one, doesn't matter for the example). You are at least self-aware enough to realize that your belief requires faith. Ergo, you can't prove it to someone else.
A scientific theory exists with which you don't agree. In general, you believe that science frowns upon everything that can't be explicitly proven. So you tell the scientists that they're taking it on faith, which in your eyes, is the last thing that a scientist should want to hear. you congratulate yourself on your wit and you move on.
it's not that this person thinks that taking something on faith is insulting...they believe that it will be insulting to a scientist to be told that the science is no better than faith.
Anyone who thinks reality makes sense has never thought about it for more than five minutes.
Anyone who thinks that stuff that makes sense, makes sense in human terms, is missing the point. All sorts of awful things happen for no reason at all, but the fact is that chance is part of the world and Chance makes sense ---if you think about it.
My sister-in-law was reading Brother's Grimm fairy tales to my daughter at my step-mom's house. My SIL started to edit out the blood and fearful scenes as she was reading. I said "you can't edit that!". She doesn't have kids and didn't want to scare my daughter. I told her the gruesome Brothers Grimm is where my daughter had started to learn about the big, bad world.
Now we are onto learning about, ahem, sexual stuff. Maybe even more gruesome and scary! I plan to scare chastity into her with horrible stories of STDs. Hope it works!
So funny. I worked in a bookstore in high school, and you wouldn't believe the number of mothers who came in wanting to buy Grimm's fairy tales who wound up buying Disney versions (Cinderella, etc) instead-- or bringing the book back. I distinctly remember the first time: the mother said "I didn't remember how violent these were! I can't give her that! But Iloved them!"
I tried in vain to explain that she'd loved them precisely for the violent and scary content, and I sold bruno bettleheim's The Uses of Enchantment to quite a few of these women, but nearly all couldn't bring themselves to buy Grimms. It made me sad.
it's not that this person thinks that taking something on faith is insulting...they believe that it will be insulting to a scientist to be told that the science is no better than faith.
But that implies that when they make that accusation, they're merely namecalling or desiring to hurt, right?
That's weird because this accusation gets flung at scientists as though it invalidates AGW. Which indicates that the accusers think it carries some weight as an objective rebuttal.
I happen to think one can be both. A long line of Christian scientists (note the small "s") would seem to agree with me.
I don't care what you are, whether you're either, neither, or both.
But what honestly puzzled me was when Lostlakehiker above spoke of an implicit faith that reality makes sense if you think it through.
I said anyone who thinks reality makes sense has never really thought about it.
So I'm curious: who here agrees with him, who with me? Upding this post if you think reality is ultimately an insoluble mystery, at least at the level we inhabit, and downding it if you think it makes sense.
You should read Daniel Dennett's "Darwin's Dangerous Idea", for an interesting twist on your question.
His argument-- and a very, very well-wrought one it is-- is that, before Darwin, creationism was actually the best working scientific theory, since there was no mechanism whereby intelligence could arise from non-intelligence.
It's a phenomenal book. And if you have a desire to see Chomsky get bitchslapped, he does that too.
I said anyone who thinks reality makes sense has never really thought about it.
So I'm curious: who here agrees with him, who with me? Upding this post if you think reality is ultimately an insoluble mystery, at least at the level we inhabit, and downding it if you think it makes sense.
Upding: but you have to define 'reality', 'mystery' and 'insoluble'.
I'll settle for a description of what you mean by 'make sense' and an example of something that doesn't. :)
The mystery unfolds like a mirage disappearing in front of us;
as we solve a step, more steps appear. The 'making sense' part I think is the faith that we can eventually solve the small bit we can perceive.
I happen to think one can be both. A long line of Christian scientists (note the small "s") would seem to agree with me.
I don't care what you are, whether you're either, neither, or both.
But what honestly puzzled me was when Lostlakehiker above spoke of an implicit faith that reality makes sense if you think it through.
I said anyone who thinks reality makes sense has never really thought about it.
So I'm curious: who here agrees with him, who with me? Upding this post if you think reality is ultimately an insoluble mystery, at least at the level we inhabit, and downding it if you think it makes sense.
I'll wait.
I'm an agnostic/heathen...and I can't figure out why this shit could mean anything to anybody...who could possibly care...you get up in the morning, live your life then go back to bed...why do you make more of it?...just wanna gab?
So I'm curious: who here agrees with him, who with me? Upding this post if you think reality is ultimately an insoluble mystery, at least at the level we inhabit, and downding it if you think it makes sense.
I'll wait.
It is too late, here, and this would make a good thread of its own. For tonight I go with a wise man: "The real world is sort of an approximation".
But that implies that when they make that accusation, they're merely namecalling or desiring to hurt, right?
That's weird because this accusation gets flung at scientists as though it invalidates AGW. Which indicates that the accusers think it carries some weight as an objective rebuttal.
Well...scientific theories based partially on faith tend not to hold much water...so...i think the accusers really do think it carried weight. follow?
Or, at least whatever weight a lightweight can bring to an argument!
And anyone who bitch-slaps Chomsky gets extra credit for me.
Tell me, does he happen to hid B.F. Skinner upside the head with a cluebat, too?
Yes, he does, actually. It's really a fantastic achievement. I'll warn you, though, that it did finally dispense with the faith of two of my supremely smart, intellectual, and religious friends. It is an incredibly well-wrought argument. It's also very, very dense.
Anyone who thinks that stuff that makes sense, makes sense in human terms, is missing the point. All sorts of awful things happen for no reason at all, but the fact is that chance is part of the world and Chance makes sense ---if you think about it.
I'm an agnostic/heathen...and I can't figure out why this shit could mean anything to anybody...who could possibly care...you get up in the morning, live your life then go back to bed...why do you make more of it?...just wanna gab?
You can't figure out why questions that occupied everyone from the Magi of ancient Persia to the Stoics to the Church Fathers to the Enlightenment philosophers to Wittgenstein to me would mean anything to anybody?
Dear, dear Iceweasel, if I could define even just the one term, "reality", there would be no sense in my question, now would there?
But your question, or rather the capacity to ask the question, is predicated upon the assumption that (1) there is such a thing as 'making sense', and (2) some things do and some don't, and (3) we can at least sometimes see that.
So some handwaving in the direction of a definition for (1) is required for us to begin. :)
If the Pope is not threatened in his faith by Darwin's dangerous idea, I see no reason why I should be. I'm certainly not scared of what sounds like a fun read.
why did it dispense with their faith? (cliff notes, s'il vous plait)
He provides an intellectually overpowering syllogism that is pretty goddamn seamless. His syllogistic device of the skyhook vs. the crane appeals to a very, very basic logical concept, and he structures the argument such that the only defense against it is one of pure, blind faith-- which is hard for a fully rational person to achieve.
Another person who I think is fantastic is Don Cupitt, who is an Anglican priest who has a beautiful, lovely idea of a non-real god-- or rather, a god just as real as love, beauty, hope, and faith.
If the Pope is not threatened in his faith by Darwin's dangerous idea, I see no reason why I should be. I'm certainly not scared of what sounds like a fun read.
I wouldn't expect you to be scared; whatever I may think of your habits sometimes, I don't see you as someone who runs from acquiring knowledge. What you later do with it will be interesting to see.
I wouldn't expect you to be scared; whatever I may think of your habits sometimes, I don't see you as someone who runs from acquiring knowledge. What you later do with it will be interesting to see.
Perhaps I will end up thanking God for Mr Dennett.
Oh my gosh, give me a guy in platform shoes and kohl eyeliner any day!! Mott the Hoople! Somebody link to a Mott The Hoople song!
Mr. Prairiefire Man Sir (I use this salutation just so others won't think we're gay, not that there's any thing wrong with that)
I'm a major Mott the Hoople / Ian Hunter fan. I have the complete catalougue (british spelling out of respect). I've got the original, David Bowie version of "All The Young Dudes." To help out Mott he asked them to sing back-up on the song, he then let Ian have a shot at the lead and said "This one's yours." The rest was beautiful rock-n-roll history.
I know more about Mott The Hoople than any straight white guy should know.
If you want to get in touch, in a strictly heterosexual way of course, I'll send you what I've collected.
My next lesson in Lizardcraft is to figure out how to use the LGF timezone clock. I hate it when good stuff comes up on the West Coast as I'm collapsing in CST. 'Nite All.
I happen to think one can be both. A long line of Christian scientists (note the small "s") would seem to agree with me.
I don't care what you are, whether you're either, neither, or both.
But what honestly puzzled me was when Lostlakehiker above spoke of an implicit faith that reality makes sense if you think it through.
I said anyone who thinks reality makes sense has never really thought about it.
So I'm curious: who here agrees with him, who with me? Upding this post if you think reality is ultimately an insoluble mystery, at least at the level we inhabit, and downding it if you think it makes sense.
I'll wait.
I'll agree that one can be a keen scientific reasoner and also a devout Jew or Christian. There are numerous examples. There are examples of keen scientific reasoners who were Muslim, but they came very close to getting executed for heresy.
But when you think about it, for a little while reality is like that with cool stuff at every magnification. Especially, life. And then, you've got quantum physics. Entanglements etc. And then, who knows whether there may be a multiverse?
We have to separate an ontological or metaphysical mystery from the epistemological: Is it a mystery that something exists, or is the mystery purely about understanding how it can exist or why?
One is a true mystery, the other is only a mystery in the sense of being hidden to human understanding: we see now as through a glass darkly.
Fractals do make sense. They are intricate beyond casual understanding, but they are not utterly opaque to reason. We have some amazing theorems about them.
Speaking of the nature of reality, I've discovered some fascinating things about what I previously considered to be a fairly unremarkable film: "Donnie Darko" - of which the website is still up and ticking away...
Navigating it is like a ritual dance: a metaphor for two inter-penetrating space-time constructs, each of which is capable of annihilating the other, and of which only one is possible without totally destroying what we refer to as reality.
"I know some homeschoolers who are doing it to isolate their children from the evil clutches of capitalism and to teach them that chemistry is bad unless you distill it from hemp. Seriously, there are whackjob homeschoolers on all sides of the crazee. This one little boy I know is growing up believing that the words "organic" and "sustainable" mean "holy" and "blessed", and that holier-than-thou is a virtue. He's going to be in for a shock.
And I'm betting that his mother, whose four-year-old Little Man, as she cloyingly calls him, she thinks is the most moral creature on the planet (because of her parenting), will be in for a surprise when he rebels and starts drinking Bud Lite, hunting elk and smoking cigars."
A very curious individual you are, Cato the Elder.
Among others, you know of this four year old boy that is also homeschooled.
His Mother calls him her four -year-old Little Man.
But upon your delicate and capable questioning, this four-year-old admitted that;
"the words "organic" and "sustainable" mean "holy" and "blessed", and that holier-than-thou is a virtue."
His Mother, of course is now disgusting and the boy is sure to " start drinking Bud Lite, hunting elk and smoking cigars", when he comes of age.
Cato, we are all on the same side, no need to hate women and children, regardless of their nationalities.
I have seen all of your postings on LGF and challenged the most insulting.
No quarrel with you as a person for you are a nick to me, just think that you go overboard a lot, especially with the women.
I have seen all of your postings on LGF and challenged the most insulting.
No quarrel with you as a person for you are a nick to me, just think that you go overboard a lot, especially with the women.
That's why I have so many girlfriends. They like a good smacking around.
"That's why I have so many girlfriends. They like a good smacking around".
Sarcasm is fine when it is understood by the posters following a thread,
I know your ~age, circumstances and such,
but you have to understand that if I were to use the several ways provided at LGF to get into a long topic, your comments can and will be taken out of context.
I remember that you are the one that refuses to use sarcasm tags in your comments, not a good practice.
Lost a day but just read the interview and liked it very much. I also enjoyed the well written comments of support. It's very nice to see the good word being picked up and noticed.
I agree 100% with what was said in that interview. Especially with the direction the GOP is going. As a young voter, the party is very quickly losing my confidence and any interest I might have in defending it. It needs some makeup taken from Palin's prep-room and applied over its battered face.
Kid's heads are filled with so many nonfacts that when they get out of school they're totally unprepared to do anything. They can't read, they can't write, they can't think. Talk about child abuse. The U.S. school system as a whole qualifies. -- Discussing the state of the education system in America - Playboy magazine, April 1993.
Frank says: