Alone... but a single mast in the expanse of the sea...

But wait... on the horizon...
could it be... a companion for me?

Ghetto Santa Christmas Rap

So blue... at Christmas?

1941 attack on Pearl Harbor far from forgotten

Any komodo dragons out here tonight?

re: #4 Sharmuta

Tomorrow is National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day. I suspect you already knew that.

I found an Eastern Orthodox church here doing doing x-mas mass on the 24th and 25th (usually Orthodox churches have a different schedule). Maybe I'll go to mass this year.

December 7th 1941--A date which will live in infamy.

Situation that may need to be watched

Police deployed in Tehran to prevent protests

Hundreds of police have been deployed around Tehran University to prevent planned protests against President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as Iran marks the annual Students Day Monday, witnesses told AFP.

"Police have also cordoned off side lanes going towards Tehran university," a witness said.

Students Day observes the 1953 killing of three students by the shah's forces, just months after popular Iranian premier Mohammad Mossadeq was toppled with US backing.

Iranian authorities have banned the foreign media from covering the expected protests on Monday and also reportedly cut Internet access in central Tehran.

re: #7 Killgore Trout

I found an Eastern Orthodox church here doing doing x-mas mass...

X-mas? X-MAS!?! Why you commie, atheist, anti-American sonuva... How dare you take "Christ" out of "Christmas"!
/

re: #10 Slumbering Behemoth

Can you tell what these guys are?

They say they're orthodox, founded by Serbs, Arabs and Russians but I think they're actually Catholic. Any clue?

'Final Hamas offer presented to Israel'

The German mediator in talks over the prisoner exchange deal to release captured IDF soldier St.-Sgt. Gilad Schalit arrived in Tel Aviv on Sunday evening to present the final Hamas proposal to Israel, Channel 2 reported, citing an Al-Jazeera report.

After the meeting, the German mediator will reportedly return to the Gaza Strip and relay Israel's response to the Hamas leadership.

A Hamas official told the Arab television network that if Israel will not accept the group's demands within two days, "the deal will be postponed."

"The next 48 hours will be critical, leading either to the finalization or the postponement of the deal," the senior Hamas official was quoted as saying.

re: #8 ausador

December 7th 1941--A date which will live in infamy.

From the more recent movie:

When Uncle Sam take all your men and boys to war
I'm a be just like a coon
When Uncle Sam take all your men and boys to war
Boy I'm a be just like a coon
every morning before the moon go down
I'm a start tapping from room to room
Uncle Sam please leave me alone
I got to watch all these pretty women while their men are gone.

Army Blues – Booker White

Hmmm...I also found some Antiochan Orthodox church. Prayers in Arabic and English. That could be interesting.

Killgore is considering attending Mass?

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Can you tell what these guys are?

They say they're orthodox, founded by Serbs, Arabs and Russians but I think they're actually Catholic. Any clue?

The Kontakion part of the name means that they are a practiceing "Eastern Orthodox Church" also known officially as "The Orthodox Catholic Church."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Not a clue, you'd probably venture a far better guess than I. I was raised as a non-denominational Christian of the televangelist variety. With a side helping of Satan behind every bush, Chick style.

Not exactly the most historically accurate upbringing.

re: #17 ausador

Ah, thanks. That makes sense.

In a war there are many moments for compassion and tender action. There are many moments for ruthless action - what is often called ruthless - what may in many circumstances be only clarity, seeing clearly what there is to be done and doing it, directly, quickly, awake, looking at it.

Army of the Pharaohs - Jedi Mind Tricks

Add an "h" to Copenhagen, shake and bake, and you have...Hopenchange.
Viola!

KT- for me, it comes down more to the homily or sermon, regardless of what denomination. I hope you do pick a Mass to attend. There are certainly less worthy ways of spending one's time than to consider the power of Love, Forgiveness and Redemption. Merry Christmas, Killgore.

re: #21 Spare O'Lake

I like this comment left on the Hopenhagen website from someone in Greenland... gives me hope.

Farcenhagen

re: #22 Sharmuta

I might go if I can find something cool. These guys look interesting too: Saint George Antiochian Orthodox Christian Church
They're rocking something about St Basil the Great...

This looks like the kind of place where Sarah Palin would hate the people. I mean, er, not "academic" enough.

re: #24 Killgore Trout

The children's Christmas program might be nice. Hard on the ears, most likely, but cute, I bet.

re: #25 jonmayer

¿Que?

Crude Oil struggled to push above $76 a barrel tonight, and is currently tanking, about $75.45 so far...

Santa will be able to fill up on high test this year if this continues!

So... Ever wonder what an episode of Star Trek: NG would sound like if it were dubbed by people who fail horribly at lip reading?

Me neither, but here it is. NSFW.

And some people wonder how Christianity has split into over one thousand denominations?

Early Schisms of the Orthodox Church:

The Church in Egypt (Patriarchate of Alexandria) split into two groups following the Council of Chalcedon (451), over a dispute about the relation between the divine and human natures of Jesus. Eventually this led to each group anathematizing the other. Those that remained in communion with the other patriarchs (those who accepted the Council of Chalcedon) were called "Melkites" (the king's men, because Constantinople was the city of the emperors) [not to be confused with the Melkite Catholics of Antioch]. Those who disagreed with the findings of the Council of Chalcedon are today known as the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, currently led by Pope Shenouda III. There was a similar split in Syria (Patriarchate of Antioch) resulting in the Syriac Orthodox Church.

Those who disagreed with the Council of Chalcedon are sometimes called "Oriental Orthodox" to distinguish them from the Eastern Orthodox, who accepted the Council of Chalcedon. Oriental Orthodox are also sometimes referred to as "non-Chalcedonians", or "anti-Chalcedonians". The Oriental Orthodox Church denies that it is monophysite and prefers the term "miaphysite", to denote the "joined" nature of Jesus (two natures joined into one). Both the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches formally believe themselves to be the continuation of the true church and the other fallen into heresy, although over the last several decades there has been some reconciliation. Both Churches agree there to have been a misunderstanding between the two in 451, that is to say that each side's terminology basically meant the same thing.

As well, there are the "Nestorian" churches, which are Eastern Christian churches that keep the faith of only the first two ecumenical councils, i.e., the First Council of Nicaea and the First Council of Constantinople. "Nestorian" is an outsider's term for a tradition that predated the influence of Nestorius. Thus, "Persian Church" is a more neutral term.

Has anyone noticed that AGW has eclipsed air pollution and water pollution from the public agenda?
If this is true, then perhaps it would behoove us to take a look at who stands to benefit from this shift?

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

So... Ever wonder what an episode of Star Trek: NG would sound like if it were dubbed by people who fail horribly at lip reading?

Me neither, but here it is. NSFW.

They seem to be a little hung up on apple juice for some reason...

re: #31 Spare O'Lake

Has anyone noticed that AGW has eclipsed air pollution and water pollution from the public agenda?
If this is true, then perhaps it would behoove us to take a look at who stands to benefit from this shift?

Clean air and water are just sooo 80's get with the times man!

re: #32 ausador

"I have a sheep, doing roofing, over at my house. Come and drop in. We'll put on Zeppelin and eat cheddar cheese."

Isn't that the same boat from earlier in the week?

As I know many of you are waiting with held breaths for this... but the opening of the Copenhagen summit can be watched here:

[Link: www2.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

re: #36 freetoken

My breath is held because of the proverbial 'something rotten in Denmark'.

FDR definitely saw it coming, here he is almost nine months before Pearl Harbor trying to rally Americans behind the war industry efforts for our allies.

He really was a truly great President, it is one of histories tragedies that he didn't live to see the final conclusion of the war.

re: #37 Fenway_Nation

My breath is held because of the proverbial 'something rotten in Denmark'.

President Obama represents Hope and Change for America in Copenhagen!

Hope...(that your electric bill doesn't go too high.)

Change...(from driving to walking.)

For a better America!

This message brought to you by the United Investment Bankers of Wallstreet®, because we really, really, want you to fall for cap and trade.

re: #39 ausador

Change...(from driving to walking.)

That would indeed be an improvement.

re: #39 ausador

This message brought to you by the United Investment Bankers of Wallstreet®, because we really, really, want you to fall for cap and trade.

So...just like Shell Oil, suddenly Wall Street isn't so bad?

///

re: #40 freetoken

That would indeed be an improvement.

How thoughtful of somebody else to make the decision for us!

re: #36 freetoken

As I know many of you are waiting with held breaths for this... but the opening of the Copenhagen summit can be watched here:

Cheers for that, up on my monitor now...

Let the Farce begin!

An opinion endorsed by Dr. James Hansen by the way

In honour of the Farcenhagen opening ceremony

re: #43 Bagua

There can be several conferences/press briefings going in parallel. E.g., the UNICEF presser is starting on time:

[Link: www1.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

... while the main opening ceremony seems to be running quite late and not started yet.

Danish Limo companies, Copenhagen airport stretched beyond capacity for Climate Change Conference.

There is no room at the Copenhagen airport for the estimated 140 private planes flying in. Also...fun fact: current Danish regulations make it cost-prohibitive to own a hybrid automobile.

Conference of the Parties (COP)

Copenhagen, Denmark
7 December 2009

1th meeting

So this is the firth meeting?

/

re: #47 ausador

Next Septober tenteenth.

DUH!

re: #47 ausador

So this is the firth meeting?

/

They were going to hold it at the Firth of Forth, but planth fell through at the latht thecond.

re: #45 freetoken

[...]

... while the main opening ceremony seems to be running quite late and not started yet.

Cheers, it just started.

She said, "I want to wish everyone a warm welcome" lol

re: #46 Fenway_Nation

Danish Limo companies, Copenhagen airport stretched beyond capacity for Climate Change Conference.

There is no room at the Copenhagen airport for the estimated 140 private planes flying in. Also...fun fact: current Danish regulations make it cost-prohibitive to own a hybrid automobile.

From your link...

And this being Scandinavia, even the prostitutes are doing their bit for the planet. Outraged by a council postcard urging delegates to "be sustainable, don't buy sex," the local sex workers' union – they have unions here – has announced that all its 1,400 members will give free intercourse to anyone with a climate conference delegate's pass. The term "carbon dating" just took on an entirely new meaning.

lmao, now thats funny. Bet it gets taken advantage of too.

re: #50 Bagua

Fenway would appreciate the for-the-children approach of the opening segments...

Nice shot.

re: #52 freetoken

Fenway would appreciate the for-the-children approach of the opening segments...

Given the choice between global warming and forefitting our rights, soveirgnty, economic independence and freedom of choice to faceless, distant, unelected unaccountable state or UN bureaucrats, I'd tell my children that they should learn to love houseboats.

I thought this was a climate conference, not a broadway stage show.

re: #52 freetoken

Wow, what an opening ceremony video, Sweden has turned into a desert and the little girl is screaming in fear. Scary stuff. "Please help save the world" says the little girl, and now a bugler is playing on the stage and children are filing up onto the sage to sing.

Who knew science conferences could be so dramatic?

re: #55 ausador

And what exactly do you have against Broadway, hmmm...?

Funny that the little Swedish kids speak English in this stage production.

re: #56 Bagua

Who knew science conferences could be so dramatic?

This is not a "science conference". This is actually two international meetings (party of the Kyoto signers, and one to negotiate a new accord), rolled into one, but it is not an IPCC meeting.

re: #58 Bagua

Funny that the little Swedish kids speak English in this stage production.

English is still the first language of science, at least so far...

re: #58 Bagua

Funny that the little Swedish kids speak English in this stage production.

What? Not Mandarin or Portugese?

I demand sub-titles on the english page dammit! Who is running this movie anyway?

re: #62 ausador

The subtitles will have to downloaded with via a torrent.

I wonder if Tycho Brahe could have ever imagined there would be this big a room dedicated to his name?

re: #59 freetoken

This is not a "science conference". This is actually two international meetings (party of the Kyoto signers, and one to negotiate a new accord), rolled into one, but it is not an IPCC meeting.

I know, just making fun. It is politics, all sound and fury, signifying nothing.

It certainly highlights all the emoting and drama built up around this issue though.

And the Danish girls choir was cute.

re: #65 Bagua

And the Danish girls choir was cute.

A little young for me... but for you and Fenway... maybe?

re: #61 Fenway_Nation

What? Not Mandarin or Portugese?

I got just the thing for them arrogant Chinese scientists:

[Link: www.cafepress.com...]

The dignitaries have taken their seats at the head table on stage:

H.E. Mr. Lars Løkke Rasmussen
Prime Minister of Denmark

● H.E. Ms. Ritt Bjerregård
Mayor of Copenhagen

● Dr. Rajendra Kumar Pachauri
Chair, IPCC

● Mr. Yvo de Boer
Executive Secretary

re: #66 freetoken

A little young for me... but for you and Fenway... maybe?

I mean cute with the purest of intentions. :)

re: #65 Bagua

Just be thankful that it looks as if they aren't going to really accomplish anything this round. Signing the cap and trade deal that was being proposed would have been a disaster for all involved without doing much, if anything, to actually solve the problem.

Let us hope that by the next conference they have a realistic plan instead of a carbon/money shell game.

Nice, the Prime Minister of Denmark gives his address in English.

All Your Languages Are Belong To US

re: #66 freetoken

I'm missing out- these girls in the choir aren't like 12, are they?

re: #72 Fenway_Nation

Assortment of ages... just so your discriminating taste can be met!

re: #70 ausador

Let us hope that by the next conference they have a realistic plan instead of a carbon/money shell game.

Or punitive measures against an industry that was 12 years ahead of it's competitors in terms of reducing fuel consumption.

re: #72 Fenway_Nation

I'm missing out- these girls in the choir aren't like 12, are they?

Nope, late teens.

re: #71 Bagua

Well, Danish is close enough to English that the Danes can learn English with measured study (or vice versa.)

The East Asian languages, though... that would be quite the gap. I couldn't imagine the Chinese Premier speaking this well in English.

re: #75 Bagua

Nope, late teens.

Oh...well then. I'm just a kid at heart.

Or just really really immature.

re: #74 Fenway_Nation

TWENTY-FIVE- meant to say 25 years ahead of it's competiton.

re: #76 freetoken

The French will be pissed off to hear everyone speaking English, they so wanted French to be the international language.

For the next two weeks Copenhagen will be Hopenhagen
--PM Rasmussen

The Mayor is now wittering on about Hopenhagen, but her English is not as good as the Prime Minister.

re: #80 Bagua

For the next two weeks Copenhagen will be Hopenhagen
--PM Rasmussen

The Mayor is now wittering on about Hopenhagen, but her English is not as good as the Prime Minister.

Hopenhagen!? More like Dopenhagen...

re: #75 Bagua

Nope, late teens.

Ahem...

Image: female-motivational-posters-10.jpg

re: #82 ausador

Remember...the age of consent over there is...

Wait- what is the age of consent over there? Isn't it 16?

re: #83 Fenway_Nation

Ahem... 15.

You're in luck...

Dr. Pachauri said "Possible disappearance of the sea ice by the end of the century", he says "possible" or "might" before every statement.

Poor Ludwig will be apoplectic, he didn't say 100% certain.

Glad to see Dr. Pachuari speaking like a scientist. He is giving an honest summary of the IPCC AR4.

re: #84 freetoken

You sure do know your international ages of consent!

At one point, the age of consent in Alberta might've been an issue for me- despite never having set foot in the province.

Climategate! lol...he brought it up...

Wow, he mentions the CRU email theft in the opening speech!

re: #85 Bagua

Poor Ludwig will be apoplectic, he didn't say 100% certain.

What is the last true patriot up to these days?

re: #87 ausador

Climategate! lol...he brought it up...

Shocking misstep, that gives the whole email theft thing credibility as an issue.

re: #89 Fenway_Nation

What is the last true patriot up to these days?

Well, I hope he doesn't do anything rash after hearing Pachauri not express 100% certainty.

re: #89 Fenway_Nation

What is the last true patriot up to these days?

He hasn't been seen since those thre threads that turned into shouting matches because of peoples opposition to trying terrorists in civilian court.
I guess he is holding a grudge against certain people still.

re: #85 Bagua

Because he is reading the report findings, he is using the voted upon language.

I thought this guy was dead?

re: #91 ausador

Damn...and here I am with the world's smallest violin in the shop.

Damn why use the hyperbole? It just makes the deniers stronger when you tie hurricanes and typhoons to AGW without any proof. Don't try to tug at my heartstrings, just stick to the facts idiot.

re: #92 freetoken

Because he is reading the report findings, he is using the voted upon language.

Are you saying he is lying?

re: #95 ausador

Hurricane intensity is expected to increase along with increasing sea surface temperatures.

I just noticed that they fixed the 1th typos, someone must have notified them. I was wondering why the site refreshed on me...

Well, that was jolly good fun.

Thank you again Freetoken for posting the link!

Good night my friends.

re: #99 Bagua

Glad to be of some help.

re: #97 freetoken

"Is expected to" is not the same as Al Gore useing Katrina as a prop or the gentleman just speaking useing a typhoon as a prop and telling the audience they "need to act to prevent this from happening again." Or is Cap and Trade going to actually prevent typhoons somehow?

It is sloppy use of the evidence that is known, there are so many other examples that can be tied to AGW that he could have used as an example.

Students, Security Forces Clash at Tehran University

But will it be enough to distract the world from all the shiny sparkley stuff in Denmark going on today?

re: #97 freetoken

Like all those hurricanes that slammed into the Gulf coast this year.

/again

re: #103 Fenway_Nation

Again, it is intensity that is expected to increase, not necessarily frequency. Hurricane frequency has always been highly variable.

re: #103 Fenway_Nation

Like all those hurricanes that slammed into the Gulf coast this year.

/again

Fenway you silly boy, now that George Bush cannot control those things they will never happen again.///

re: #102 Fenway_Nation

Students, Security Forces Clash at Tehran University

But will it be enough to distract the world from all the shiny sparkley stuff in Denmark going on today?

Yeah here we go for round...uhh...five? There will be a lot more heads bashed in today it would seem.

Khameini, the supreme leader who has final say on all state matters, accused the opposition Sunday of exposing divisions in the country and creating opportunities for Iran's enemies.

How about you guys just stop acting like authoritarian dicks and trying to de-stabilize all your neighbors? Then maybe you wouldn't have so many "enemies" to worry about, huh?

re: #104 freetoken

re: #104 freetoken

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Katrina barely a category 4 hurricane upon making landfall at the Louisiana/Mississippi state line along the mouth of the Pearl River?

re: #104 freetoken

Again, it is intensity that is expected to increase, not necessarily frequency. Hurricane frequency has always been highly variable.

Well then what is wrong with my earlier comment? It is silly and empowering to the opposition when people in authority use hyperbole that is easily refuted like that. It pisses me off because these are (theoretically at least) smart people and they should know better.

re: #107 Fenway_Nation

Not sure, I think it was even down to a cat 3 by the time that the eye hit the beach in MS.

The problem that Katrina brought in particular was the surge of water (this on top of the rains which were a real problem). This ties into the sea level rise problem - even modest sea level rises translate into serious problems for places at sea level where hurricanes are possible.

The Papua New Guinea representative has now for the third time raised objections to the beginning of the meeting. The PNG representative doesn't like the snow job he is getting...

Oh, this is starting to get interesting. Brazil and KSA are telling PNG to shut up.

re: #109 freetoken

The problems in New Orleans were magnified due to the pisspoor maintenance program in place for the pumps and the generators to run them.

If you want to stop most of the hurricanes while also reducing carbon then "green" the Sahara desert. Build a couple of honking big nuclear powered de-salination plants for irrigation and then start planting trees. In 50 years you wouldn't have any more south atlantic formed hurricanes, just the caribbean ones.

re: #107 Fenway_Nation

re: #104 freetoken

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Katrina barely a category 4 hurricane upon making landfall at the Louisiana/Mississippi state line along the mouth of the Pearl River?

While it was out in the Gulf, it was a monstrous Cat 5. But yes, it did decrease in strength by the time it made landfall. Just goes to show, there's no such thing as a weak hurricane.

re: #111 freetoken

Oh, this is starting to get interesting. Brazil and KSA are telling PNG to shut up.

OOoh Oooh! Is PetroBras on the list of 'approved' oil companies a-la Royal Dutch Shell?

Still no "climategate" in Google's auto-suggest.

Oooh... Palestine has asked for the floor...

re: #117 freetoken

Oooh... Palestine has asked for the floor...

And got told no, till later anyway...

re: #118 ausador

Because they are not a nation-state, they can't be a party... so for them to speak they have to line up behind all the nation-states.

Heck, LGF could probably register as an NGO.

re: #119 freetoken

Don't we already have Israel for that? q;

/also good evening

re: #117 freetoken

Oooh... Palestine has asked for the floor...

Will they offer to cut down their CO2 emissions by stopping the rocket attacks?

re: #121 Bagua

They'll probably complain that Israel is preventing them from getting new clean-burning rockets to launch back.

re: #119 freetoken

But can we accomplish this in time to take advantage of free Danish hookers!?

/Plus some really sweet limos and private planes?

While we're talking about Israel and Global Warming... anyone hear of Better Place?

re: #117 freetoken

Oooh... Palestine has asked for the floor...

The Israeli Delegate* kicks the Palestinian Delegate in the back of the knee. You wanted the floor? There ya go..!

*Yeah, like anyone ever invites them to the party.

Cool satellite images of the break up of the Wilkins ice shelf in Antarctica and the of ice bridge to Charcot Island that used to hold the front of the shelf back from the ocean.

[Link: www.esa.int...]

What was Sudan so mad about?

The Group 77 doesn't want there to be parallel sessions... in other words, real bargaining going on the side independent of the public, official program.

Good luck with that.

re: #127 Bagua

They know that the real negotiations are going on between the US, China, and the EU (plus Japan), and they don't like being on the side lines.

re: #127 Bagua

What was Sudan so mad about?

Well... he's from Sudan. That's enough, ain't it?

Oooh.. our friends are taking the floor...

/that would be the KSA.

re: #129 freetoken

They know that the real negotiations are going on between the US, China, and the EU (plus Japan), and they don't like being on the side lines.

Ah, makes sense, thanks.

I did post here weeks back that Copenhagen was already a farce because of the wheeling and dealing that was going on in advance and which rendered the preordained result essentially irrelevant in terms of significant CO2 reductions.

re: #127 Bagua

What was Sudan so mad about?

I think you just answered your own question!

re: #131 freetoken

And now for some political incorrectness...

re: #131 freetoken

Oooh.. our friends are taking the floor...

/that would be the KSA.

A yes, the KSA

re: #132 Bagua

In case you have noticed, even again with the KSA rep speaking right now... the G77 and other small nations are not liking the fact that the G20 will basically make up the rules, and the rest will get the scraps.

That is just the way it is...

Many other agendas in motion. Notice how flowery and polite the KSA is being, and how he now just raised "climategate"... OPEC wants to protect their economies - oil exports, and thus will do whatever they can to make sure that oil is off the table.

Ooops, the Saudi is speaking in Arabic but he just said "Climategate".

re: #136 freetoken

Agree all. Absolutely.

re: #137 Bagua

You are listening to the English translation, no?

BTW, the Saudi guy sounds like he is reading HotAir wrt "climategate".

He is quite wrong btw wrt IPCC and the CRU emails. The IPCC didn't have anything to do with the CRU emails.

re: #136 freetoken

And Russia?

Sarah Palin kills the death panel.

re: #139 freetoken

Yikes, there's an English version? I'm struggling with the Arabic. Wow, just noticed the tab for English. Darn, missed the whole thing.

What did he say about the IPCC and the CRU emails?

re: #140 Fenway_Nation

They are too sophisticated to start jumping in public. They are part of the G20 anyway and don't court the smaller countries like China.

Did you realize there are now millions of Chinese working in Africa?

re: #142 Bagua

What did he say about the IPCC and the CRU emails?

Pretty much what you hear from Inhofe or Ed Morrisey.

Would someone please[re]post a link to the Copenhagen feed? Thanks.

re: #145 The Sanity Inspector

Here is all the feeds:

[Link: www1.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

The main meeting is the first one.

re: #143 freetoken

And I thought we Filipinos had people everywhere. O:

re: #143 freetoken

They are too sophisticated to start jumping in public. They are part of the G20 anyway and don't court the smaller countries like China.

Did you realize there are now millions of Chinese working in Africa?

And what's grating to the Africans, is that those Chinese are mostly laborers--very little native contracting going on. The Africans don't see why the Chinese have to bring along their countrymen to push wheelbarrows

Waiting to see if Obama actually commits himself to the earlier reported figure of 17% reduction in U.S. emissions by 2020 or not. I honestly don't see how he thinks he will get congressional support for that. Especially if he pulls his usual "here is what I want, now you guys figure out how to do it" routine with congress.

Of course I guess he can promise them anything just to make them happy, if we don't cut that much he can say that it wasn't his fault, after all he won't be in office in 2020.

Ha, he mentioned Gender Equality a big Climate Change issue.

re: #149 ausador

Well the House bill as passes supposedly has that as a goal. The problem (as mentioned downstairs earlier tonight) is that it won't get past the floor of the Senate.

re: #143 freetoken

Yes. My 'inside sources' tell me they're busily pouring money and labor into rebuilding Angola's strife-wrecked railway system as a means of bringing the mineral wealth from southern Congo (the one that used to be called Zaire) to the ports in Angola. The TAZRA rail-line from Zambia to Dar Es Salaam, Tanznaia was completed in the mid-70s with considerable aid from China.

That and they're trading arms for oil with the Sudan. I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones that popped to mind right away.

/As an aside, one of the financial magazines had what looked like PLA soldiers pulling security on an oilfield in Kirkuk, Iraq in a writeup on how China is heavily invested overseas...

re: #136 freetoken

That is just the way it is...

Ah! A student of that great American Philosopher, Bruce Hornsby!

re: #149 ausador

George Bush was responsible for so much more carbon emissions than I thought.//

re: #151 freetoken

Well the House bill as passes supposedly has that as a goal. The problem (as mentioned downstairs earlier tonight) is that it won't get past the floor of the Senate.

Mmmm...I feel warm and fuzzy whenever I hear that.

Even if I have my doubts.

re: #150 Bagua

Ha, he mentioned Gender Equality a big Climate Change issue.

Just like any street demo, all the different "causes" come together to benefit from the collateral exposure.

re: #154 soxfan4life

George Bush was responsible for so much more carbon emissions than I thought.//

It goes deeper than you think:

re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth

Not a clue, you'd probably venture a far better guess than I. I was raised as a non-denominational Christian of the televangelist variety. With a side helping of Satan behind every bush, Chick style.

Cue the scary music!

//

re: #151 freetoken

I never really viewed a bill that would cripple industry and cause immense job loss not getting passed as a problem.

re: #153 SteveC

Ah! A student of that great American Philosopher, Bruce Hornsby!

[Video]

Oh, I thought he referred to the philosophies of Tupac Shakur.

/west siiide~ :B

re: #158 soxfan4life

I never really viewed a bill that would cripple industry and cause immense job loss not getting passed as a problem.

Oh! If only we had a 'Green Jobs Czar'!!

The Chinese have played this brilliantly, IMO. They're playing both sides of the street with aplomb.

re: #160 Fenway_Nation

Oh! If only we had a 'Green Jobs Czar'!!

HUSH! Obama might hear you!

re: #161 freetoken

I would not expect anything else from them.

re: #160 Fenway_Nation

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Again.

I don't envy President Obama in trying to handle this crowd. He's going to have to do some real tap dancing to get anything positive out of this one.

Grenada stated what they want clearly: Money!

re: #166 Bagua

Hey, they are at least honest.

re: #165 freetoken

I don't envy President Obama in trying to handle this crowd. He's going to have to do some real tap dancing to get anything positive out of this one.

What!? Are you calling the President some kind of minstrel!? How dare you? Dogwhistle!!///

Meanwhile, over here, local leftist protesters bringing out the old "Imperialist" posters to criticize America for not signing the Kyoto Protocol.

I'm not making this up.

re: #169 laZardo

I'll give them credit- they're lazy if nothing else.

re: #166 Bagua

What are they looking for their free Obama money too?

re: #170 Fenway_Nation

Or were paid. >_> Or were from the University of the Philippines*.

/*our local UC Berkeley. I suspect when the Americans first built it in 1908 that was where they got inspiration.

re: #171 soxfan4life

What are they looking for their free Obama money too?

Billions in aid and billions more in "financing" every year, oh, and access to all technology that may help them advance, forget about patents.

It's all about money.

re: #169 laZardo

Meanwhile, over here, local leftist protesters bringing out the old "Imperialist" posters to criticize America for not signing the Kyoto Protocol.

I'm not making this up.

BTW...speaking of Americo-Philipino relations, I distincly remember particularly red and intese sunsets when I was growing up in a tiny little New England hilltown. A couple of local papers and our science teacher attributed the intensity to the volumnious amounts of ash (along with carbon) that Mt. Pinatubo spewed up in the air.

Kind of wierd to think that something that was happening half a world away would have a visible and tangible effect I could see from my little corner of the world at the time.

Well all, time to go do my part to aid and abet the enemy here at Fort Hood.//

Now it's 100 Billion per year by 2020.

Fundamental to this whole thing is a vast transfer of wealth from the Western word to these third world countries.

re: #174 Fenway_Nation

Reduced global temperatures by 1 degree for some time, if I recall. Small world, eh?

"Palestine" just got told to never-mind their request for the floor, the interpreters need their lunch.

re: #175 soxfan4life

Well all, time to go do my part to aid and abet the enemy here at Fort Hood.//

Remember- only you can prevent enemy campfires!

re: #176 Bagua

That was the EU estimate for adaptation and mitigation efforts wrt the agreement, not necessarily the net transfer of funds.

re: #166 Bagua

Grenada stated what they want clearly: Money!

Well that is part of their cunningly stupid plan to solve global warming after all.,,

We in the "developed nations" are supposed to tax our citizens heavily for the past crimes of polluting, while heavily limiting our industry. Then we take that money and pay it to the "under-developed nations" so that they don't develop their own resources and pollute even more.

What are they supposed to do with the money then? Obviously not build roads and bridges or buy cars, not buy big screen TVs that will need more power plants to run. We give them money to do what with, live in a nicer mud hut than the one they had?

They are doing the worlds biggest circle-jerk right now in Copenhagen, instead of addressing the one issue that will have any effect. Curtailing the use of fossil fuels for energy generation and transpotation is what is required over the next several decades. Anything less than that is just feel-good bullshit.

re: #178 Bagua

Is Ghdaffi and his 'girrl power' squadron going to be present? I pity the interpeter who has to try and translate his 2 and a half hour diatribe.

Brb, late dinner.

re: #180 freetoken

That was the EU estimate for adaptation and mitigation efforts wrt the agreement, not necessarily the net transfer of funds.

Somehow I expect that the US and developed countries will ultimately be expected to foot the bill.

Craven is the only word I can think of.

morning all

re: #182 Fenway_Nation

Is Ghdaffi and his 'girrl power' squadron going to be present? I pity the interpeter who has to try and translate his 2 and a half hour diatribe.

Yep, the last one had a nervous break down.

re: #184 Bagua

Better yet, I imagine there are some countries that have seen considerable economic and industrial growth over the last few years suddenly plead pverty when it comes time for the developed and industrialized nations to foot the bill.

re: #187 Fenway_Nation

Of course you know that the EU nations, who agreed Kyoto, never lived up to their "commitments".

re: #176 Bagua

Now it's 100 Billion per year by 2020.

Fundamental to this whole thing is a vast transfer of wealth from the Western word to these third world countries.

Watermelons.

When I coined the word: Farcenhagen

I had no idea just how accurate a description that was.

re: #186 Bagua

Yep, the last one had a nervous break down.

Heard about that- I'm guessing that was a UN staffer, not one of the Colonel's interpreters who shouted 'I can't take it anymore!' before Ghdaffi even entertained the idea of saying anything along the lines of "So, in closing..."

re: #189 MandyManners

Watermelons.

Watermelonism. Watermelonists.

re: #189 MandyManners

RACSIT!

/green on the outside, red and seedy on the inside. o;

re: #182 Fenway_Nation

I still don't know whether I was supposed to be angered, humored, or perplexed by the 2 hour ramblings of a homeless man.

re: #194 laZardo

I still don't know whether I was supposed to be angered, humored, or perplexed by the 2 hour ramblings of a homeless man.

IIRC, his tent has AC.

re: #193 laZardo

RACSIT!

/green on the outside, red and seedy on the inside. o;

Communism's latest tactic.

Oprah's invited Tiger to appear on her show? Oh, get over yourself, Oprah. You are not the nation's conscience.

re: #192 MandyManners

OMG! How long have you been a Bircher!?

/Nevermind that I've heard 'watermelon' used in that context by one of my uncles, a mechanic and an ultra-liberal guidebook well over a decade ago.

re: #198 Fenway_Nation

OMG! How long have you been a Bircher!?

/Nevermind that I've heard 'watermelon' used in that context by one of my uncles, a mechanic and an ultra-liberal guidebook well over a decade ago.

I read here a while ago that it started in Europe.

re: #184 Bagua

Somehow I expect that the US and developed countries will ultimately be expected to foot the bill.

I think you missed the whole point of the Saudi objections.

$10billion sounds like a lot... but look at it this way. World annual oil production is roughly 30 billion barrels. Taxing at 33 cents/bbl would get you $10 billion. Yes, the oil buyer pay the tax, but more importantly raising the price of fossil fuels drives efforts to develop away from fossil fuels.

Thus you look at it as a transfer of wealth, but the likely method of accomplishing that would be to punish the use of fossil fuels, which ultimately signals the end of the fossil fuel exporters.

re: #199 MandyManners

I read here a while ago that it started in Europe.

I'll have to dig through my analog archives...that's what I heard too- a derogatory term for former communist party hacks who embraced the green party in post-soviet Eastern Europe or post reunification Germany.

The policies were no longer for the benefit of the worker, but the planet.

re: #201 Fenway_Nation

Speaking of the return of East German communists...

re: #202 laZardo

You just looove your Trabants, don't you?

re: #203 Fenway_Nation

Not really.

Also, Part 2.

re: #201 Fenway_Nation

I'll have to dig through my analog archives...that's what I heard too- a derogatory term for former communist party hacks who embraced the green party in post-soviet Eastern Europe or post reunification Germany.

The policies were no longer for the benefit of the worker, but the planet.

Same here.

re: #200 freetoken

I think you missed the whole point of the Saudi objections.

That's entirely likely as I listened to the entire thing in Arabic and had trouble following his drift.

$10billion sounds like a lot... but look at it this way. World annual oil production is roughly 30 billion barrels. Taxing at 33 cents/bbl would get you $10 billion. Yes, the oil buyer pay the tax, but more importantly raising the price of fossil fuels drives efforts to develop away from fossil fuels.

Agreed, and as the price of a barrel of Crude Oil has varied by $1.54 /bbl just tonight alone, 33 cents/bbl is not so much.

Thus you look at it as a transfer of wealth, but the likely method of accomplishing that would be to punish the use of fossil fuels, which ultimately signals the end of the fossil fuel exporters.

But I don't see how 33 cents/bbl, or even $30 /bbl signals the end of the fossil fuel exporters. They will add that to the cost.

Wow, I broke 1000 posts in just under two months, I must really like this place and the people here or something. Not doing too shabby on karma either, it must be because of my unassuming modesty ehh?

///

re: #207 ausador

Wow, I broke 1000 posts in just under two months, I must really like this place and the people here or something. Not doing too shabby on karma either, it must be because of my unassuming modesty ehh?

///

I think it's just the cat in your avatar.

re: #207 ausador

Wow, I broke 1000 posts in just under two months, I must really like this place and the people here or something. Not doing too shabby on karma either, it must be because of my unassuming modesty ehh?

///

I'm more modest than you!!! I'm more humble, too!!!

re: #208 Bloodnok

I think it's just the cat in your avatar.

That is one possibility I suppose, people do so love their kittehs.

REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR

re: #208 Bloodnok

It's like catnip.

The Real Copenhagen Agenda - WSJ Opinion

It seems what most concerns Mr. Pachauri now is not climatology, or glaciology, or oceanography—but the way we live. "Today we have reached the point where consumption and people's desire to consume has grown out of proportion," he told the Observer, also on Sunday. "The reality is that our lifestyles are unsustainable."

[…]

In other words, if Mr. Pachauri is sanguine about the undermining of the IPCC's scientific methods, it's because his chief concern isn't the science at all. Rather, to judge by his recent public statements, he is more focused on an ideological economic agenda in which climate change is little more than a useful tool. Given the cover-ups exposed by the leaked emails, we'll take Mr. Pachauri's remarks as a welcome instance of full and voluntary disclosure.

Snip

Seems a bit harsh.

re: #211 osprey34229

REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR

It wasn't over then!

re: #213 Bagua

"The reality is that our lifestyles are unsustainable."

Was he a speechwriter for BHO?

Morning Folks, We got snow!

re: #206 Bagua

Buyers always pay the cost, one way or another. Thus the buyer is the one with the incentive to find a new method when the old one becomes too expensive.

The US could, theoretically, meet the targets in emissions as proposed through both changes in lifestyles as well as use of currently understood non-fossil fuel energy sources.

However, for the KSA to cut their oil exports by what is implied... that scares them.

This is what seems really silly to me... here in the US we actually have the non-coal resources to make the proposed changes. Few nations have the solar, wind, and nuclear resources we have. We are not the ones in the worst shape, but a long run. Yet the naysayers in this country to an effort like the current one in Copenhagen are yammering like, well, like the Saudis, whose entire international and economic existance depends upon adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere.

re: #214 MandyManners

National Geographic channel here currently airing a six-part documentary on the war.

re: #213 Bagua

Ooh. Another watermelon.

Our education $$$ at work

re: #220 osprey34229

Our education $$$ at work

Where?

re: #216 RogueOne

Morning Folks, We got snow global warming climate change!

Updated that for you.

Now you got it!

re: #218 laZardo

I bet some folks around here are going to enjoy that one. Lots of history buffs, I think.

BTW, the US delegation press conference is in half an hour, if you want to hear the public negotiating position of your government.

re: #209 MandyManners

I'm more modest than you!!! I'm more humble, too!!!

Here is one for you Mandy

re: #223 osprey34229

Now you got it!

I didn't know I was missing it!

Morning Lizards, we got a wee bit of a dusting. They still don't know it we will get another dusting or a white out tomorrow. I will be gripping the sides of my chair, staring at the weather channel!

re: #226 ausador

Here is one for you Mandy

[Video]

Yeah, Mac's been running through my head since I posted.

re: #217 freetoken

Buyers always pay the cost, one way or another. Thus the buyer is the one with the incentive to find a new method when the old one becomes too expensive.

The US could, theoretically, meet the targets in emissions as proposed through both changes in lifestyles as well as use of currently understood non-fossil fuel energy sources.

However, for the KSA to cut their oil exports by what is implied... that scares them.

This is what seems really silly to me... here in the US we actually have the non-coal resources to make the proposed changes. Few nations have the solar, wind, and nuclear resources we have. We are not the ones in the worst shape, but a long run. Yet the naysayers in this country to an effort like the current one in Copenhagen are yammering like, well, like the Saudis, whose entire international and economic existance depends upon adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere.

I see where you are coming from, but wind and solar are a ways from becoming economically sensible for more than a small percentage of energy needs. Nuclear could make a difference with present technology soon, but changing peoples lifestyles would take some serious persuading.

re: #228 prairiefire

Morning Lizards, we got a wee bit of a dusting. They still don't know it we will get another dusting or a white out tomorrow. I will be gripping the sides of my chair, staring at the weather channel!

Let's hear it for silk long-johns and cashmere-lined gloves!

Do vegans wear silk?

Cashmere?

re: #218 laZardo

National Geographic channel here currently airing a six-part documentary on the war.

I got that on torrent a week or so ago...it is the colorized series right?

I mean, such things exploit worms and mammals.

re: #230 Bagua

BTW, the EU is giving their press conference now, before the US delegation, and the EU guy (from Sweden) just put some pressure on Obama. Essentially, he expects Obama to deliver more than what was stated in the US press release of a few days ago, if President Obama is going to show up at the end of the conference.

FREE THE POLYESTERS! POLYS ARE PEOPLE TOO!

Let's just go around naked.

re: #234 ausador

Yeah. Everything is colorized except those scenes involving the Holocaust and Warsaw ghetto.

re: #238 MandyManners

Let's just go around naked.

I can carry some doughnuts and 2 cups of coffee.
//

re: #240 Cannadian Club Akbar

I can carry some doughnuts and 2 cups of coffee.
//

BIG AGRA KILLS BOLL WEEVILS!

re: #214 MandyManners

ding ding ding

Gotta' git.

re: #236 freetoken

BTW, the EU is giving their press conference now, before the US delegation, and the EU guy (from Sweden) just put some pressure on Obama. Essentially, he expects Obama to deliver more than what was stated in the US press release of a few days ago, if President Obama is going to show up at the end of the conference.

Good grief, the President is going to be on the spot, should be interesting.

Signing off for a few winks, thanks again for the perspective. I'll check in tomorrow for the updates.

re: #243 MandyManners

Later.

Gonna go watch the documentary too. BBL.

Copenhagen Denmark
*shake*
*shake*
Cheap green Donk man

Good Morning LGF

re: #246 Spare O'Lake

Good morning lakey Mc Sparrow.

The EU can kiss my ass. They are the primary importer of all kinds of stuff that is destroying the Brazillian rain forests, among them soybeans and beef.

And yeah, it's disgusting that the US imports this beef at all, since it does hurt our own farmers as well as support the destruction of the Amazon basin. But the EU needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror before they bash anybody else.

[Link: internationaltrade.suite101.com...]

I saw a more detailed report that showed that a large percentage of Brazil's soybean crop goes to the EU. I'll keep digging.

Really liked the movie "Hans Christian Anderson" with Danny Kaye (my very favorite)...

"Wonderful, Wonderful Copenhagen"...

Globally, deforestation accounts for up to 20 percent of carbon emissions -- more than all the world's cars, ships and planes combined.

Globally, deforestation accounts for up to 20 percent of carbon emissions -- more than all the world's cars, ships and planes combined.

re: #250 funky chicken

Sting? That you?

The volumes of EU imports of soybeans and soybean meal (expressed in soybean meal
equivalent) have grown steadily since the late 1990s and have stabilised in recent years at around
34-35 million t, i.e. much more than EU's own production of oilcakes (around 12 million t). The
principal suppliers to the EU are Argentina and Brazil. The share of the United States has declined,

[Link: ec.europa.eu...]

from page 5

[Link: content.usatoday.net...]

TEHRAN, Iran — Security forces and militiamen clashed with thousands of protesters shouting "death to the dictator" outside Tehran University on Monday, beating them with batons and firing tear gas on a day of nationwide student demonstrations, witnesses said.

The protests were the largest in months, as university students -- a bedrock of support for the pro-reform movement -- sought to energize the opposition with rallies at campuses across the country. The opposition has been reeling under a fierce crackdown since turmoil erupted over the disputed presidential election in June

re: #232 MandyManners

Do vegans wear silk?

re: #233 MandyManners

Cashmere?

Nope. While I am not vegan, I do not wear leather or fur.

My son (hard core vegan) does not wear silk, wool, cashmere, leather. Doesn't eat Jello or honey.

Didja know Oreos are vegan? They are.

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nope, but I wish I had his money :-). I am amazed that the slash and burn is still happening to make way for cattle ranching and soybean farming in Brazil. Now it's really taking off in Paraguay.

People really want to eat beef from there? Ick.

re: #250 funky chicken

Globally, deforestation accounts for up to 20 percent of carbon emissions -- more than all the world's cars, ships and planes combined.

What sucks, is while they are tearing down the jungle, you can grow soy just about anywhere that has soil.

good morning! it's snowing in the mountains of eastern Napa county --- and dumping in the Sierra's

[Link: www.tahoeloco.com...]

re: #256 funky chicken

Hard to stamp "Slaughtered in Brazil" on a piece of prime.

re: #254 RogueOne