Tea Party Organizations Dissolving Into Angry Chaos

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Politics • Mon Dec 7, 2009 at 6:14 pm PST • Views: 295

Even as a poll shows that they have more influence than the Republican Party, the tea party movement is falling apart, fracturing into angry little fragments of bad craziness and conspiracy theories.

Washington (CNN) — It emerged in anger and it threatens to split in anger.

One major group in the Tea Party movement — named after the famous Boston Tea Party — is set to host its first convention in February, with former Alaska governor and 2008 Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin as its keynote speaker.

But there are fractures in the movement that threaten its future. And if history’s any guide, such movements tend to flame out.

The Tea Party movement erupted on April 15 — tax day — over criticism of President Obama’s economic policies and what organizers called big government out of control. The movement, made up of local, state and national groups, continues to protest what it considers fiscally unsound policies.

And the movement is well funded. Action groups like FreedomWorks — chaired by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey — helped organize and fund its April 15 rally in Washington.

Other groups, including Americans for Prosperity, Tea Party Nation and Tea Party Patriots, are also vying for the helm of the movement, and it’s creating what some are calling “competitive chaos.”

Some Tea Partiers have voiced anger and concern over whether the powerful groups are “astroturfing” what is supposed to be a grass-roots coalition — the idea that the movement is being organized by old-fashioned GOP bigwigs to promote their agenda.

(Hat tip: reine.de.tout.)

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690 comments

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1 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:16:34pm

They're one hit wonders of the political world (not sure what the hit would be, this poll maybe?). Distracted by their own fame and recognition. This band won't last.

2 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:16:45pm

don't worry they thrive on anger

3 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:17:16pm

if a bunch of environmental radicals had a tea party, would it be a Green Tea Party?

4 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:17:42pm

The very minute we have a good economy this "party" goes away.

5 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:18:13pm

This is almost like hamas vs. fatah- I kind of want both sides to lose.

6 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:18:22pm

re: #3 _RememberTonyC

if a bunch of environmental radicals had a tea party, would it be a Green Tea Party?

organic green tea...

7 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:18:44pm

re: #3 _RememberTonyC

Green tea with saccharin sweetener.

8 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:19:07pm

I'm only surprised that it took them this long.

9 jaunte  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:19:09pm

Splitters!

10 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:20:27pm

re: #9 jaunte

Splitters!

The fracturing will continue until unity improves.

11 irving  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:21:10pm

I suspect what we're seeing is that the people who keep insisting that the Tea Party movement is a grass roots organization - and joined it for that reason - are waking up to the truth.

12 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:21:35pm

sings

*oh happy day*

(grins like maniac... mumbles about what they had coming to them and walks into a lampost)

13 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:22:45pm

re: #10 Sharmuta

The fracturing will continue until unity improves.

/they are evolving

14 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:22:46pm

re: #8 Slumbering Behemoth

Started a week and a half after it began.

Too many competing interests behind the scenes of these "spontaneous grass roots" protests

15 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:23:22pm

It's an interesting race to watch. The Paulians are fewer in number but are making converts a lot faster than the normal conservatives. With high profile converts like Glenn Beck they're making a lot of headway.

16 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:23:26pm

Infighting? More, please.

17 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:23:45pm

re: #6 brookly red

organic green tea...

LOL ... unsweetened?

18 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:24:20pm

re: #7 Rightwingconspirator

Green tea with saccharin sweetener.

I like Arizona diet green tea with ginseng ... really good stuff!

19 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:25:58pm

re: #4 Rightwingconspirator

The very minute we have a good economy this "party" goes away.

Very true. What conservatives are failing to plan for is a recovering economy. I get the feeling that by 2012 the Tea Party thing is going to be very embarrassing.

20 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:26:06pm

re: #18 _RememberTonyC

I like Arizona diet green tea with ginseng ... really good stuff!

made in brooklyn btw...

21 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:28:05pm

Are there any Chicagoans on the board? I met a longtime Chicago political writer (no longer working in CHI) at a party last night and I was wondering if anyone knows his writing? He's a really good guy named Basil Talbott. Does anyone know his work?

22 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:28:10pm

A hat-tip!
Thank you!

23 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:28:15pm

A toy is never truly happy until it is loved by a child.

24 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:28:29pm

re: #20 brookly red

made in brooklyn btw...

all goodness flows from bklyn!

25 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:28:55pm

re: #22 reine.de.tout

A hat-tip!
Thank you!

Nice Reine! Woot!

26 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:29:08pm

re: #21 _RememberTonyC

Are there any Chicagoans on the board? I met a longtime Chicago political writer (no longer working in CHI) at a party last night and I was wondering if anyone knows his writing? He's a really good guy named Basil Talbott. Does anyone know his work?

I'm from Chicago, but I've never heard of him.

27 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:30:20pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

Very true. What conservatives are failing to plan for is a recovering economy. I get the feeling that by 2012 the Tea Party thing is going to be very embarrassing.

I hope that the economy improves by 2012 but taxes are not going down by 2012.

28 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:30:30pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

I'm from Chicago, but I've never heard of him.

He was at the Tribune and Sun Times for over 35 years ... he filled me in on some Chicago political history and gave me some background on "Chicago Style" politics. A great guy to meet at a party.

29 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:30:39pm

Is it too late for the gates?
There's-never-been-a-Secret-Service-security-breach-before-Obama-gate!
Secret Service report details 91 breaches

Washington (CNN) -- The media spotlight has focused on the brash couple who recently managed to attend a White House state dinner, but a U.S. Secret Service training document details 91 breaches of security between 1980 and 2003.
30 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:31:02pm

re: #24 _RememberTonyC

all goodness flows from bklyn!

Chuckie Shooomer?

31 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:31:13pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

Very true. What conservatives are failing to plan for is a recovering economy. I get the feeling that by 2012 the Tea Party thing is going to be very embarrassing.

As far as I'm concerned, the Tea Party thing is already very embarrassing.

32 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:32:17pm

re: #30 brookly red

Chuckie Shooomer?

hey ... there are 2,000,000 people in brooklyn ... no borough is perfect. can't you just say he was from the upper west side and disown his ass?

33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:33:22pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

The Tea Party isn't about solutions, it's about stamping feet and bitching.

Most of them don't even know the facts of the matters that they are bitching about, they just know that if it comes from a dem./Obama Whitehouse than it must be evil.

34 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:33:41pm

time to hit the road, friends. see y'all tomorrow. have a great night

35 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:34:29pm

re: #30 brookly red

Hey, I'm from Brooklyn originally.

And I had the pleasure of being represented by Schumer at every step on his political trajectory - from local political to Rep. to Senate. I have met him on more than a few occasions, and he spoke at all of my graduations - from grade school to law school (and all in between).

/just saying...

36 andres  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:34:31pm

Could this be the official Tea Party vehicles?

37 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:35:24pm

re: #35 lawhawk

Hey, I'm from Brooklyn originally.

And I had the pleasure of being represented by Schumer at every step on his political trajectory - from local political to Rep. to Senate. I have met him on more than a few occasions, and he spoke at all of my graduations - from grade school to law school (and all in between).

/just saying...

It's OK. I like you anyway.

38 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:36:38pm

re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth

The Tea Party isn't about solutions, it's about stamping feet and bitching.

Most of them don't even know the facts of the matters that they are bitching about, they just know that if it comes from a dem./Obama Whitehouse than it must be evil.

It's superficial, imo. There's no real meat and potatoes to dealing with spending, or fixing the tax code. It's all 'audit the fed' smoke and mirrors. What we need is a real proposal with reforms to bring wasteful spending under control.

39 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:37:11pm

re: #36 andres

Could this be the official Tea Party vehicles?

Hey, it works for me. At least it would cut down on CO2 emissions. :D

40 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:37:21pm

re: #36 andres

Heh, if I had one of those in my twenties I could have circled the globe a thousand times without stopping for fuel.

41 Pepper Fox  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:38:24pm

The beginning of the end for the Republicans. At least for the next election.

42 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:39:06pm

I am so glad this is all happening now, and not in June of 2012.

43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:40:16pm

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, but then we'd have to deal with overwhelming PON* pollution.

*Pissed Off to the Nth degree

44 Pepper Fox  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:40:48pm

So is this the rebirth of the know nothing party?

45 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:41:21pm

Charles, I just wanted to point out that we understand you left the Right and for good reasons. But do you really need to host advertisers who are selling busts of Obama? Seems like a little much to me. But hey, its your blog.

46 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:42:23pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Anti-Capitalist.

47 jaunte  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:42:53pm

How Google AdSense works:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

48 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:43:05pm

re: #31 reine.de.tout

As far as I'm concerned, the Tea Party thing is already very embarrassing.

Perhaps only to those who know what the heck is going on.

49 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:43:16pm

re: #42 Racer X

nooo - it's gonna be double the fun in 2012... two Tea Party presidential candidates.

Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee.


;-)

50 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:43:17pm

re: #41 Pepper Fox

The beginning of the end for the Republicans. At least for the next election.

Be careful what you hope for, you may not like what replaces them.

51 Bloodnok  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:43:19pm

re: #45 mwalke5

At least put some newspaper down on Charles's floor before you do that.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:43:27pm

re: #7 Rightwingconspirator

Green tea with saccharin sweetener.

No, no, raw honey. Saccharine is made from chemicals.

//

53 Pepper Fox  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:43:38pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Sure beats those horrible before and after muscle ads *shudder*

54 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:44:19pm

re: #47 jaunte

Gotcha - thanks for pointing it out. Not much of a techie this one.

55 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:44:24pm

re: #42 Racer X

That may be a blessing for the GOP, for all this batshit crazy to burn out early. I am hopeful, but I won't be holding my breath. I am seeing a lot of parallels between what is happening now, and what was happening during Clinton's first term.

56 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:44:37pm

conservatives aren't used to organizing like this, they're bound to fuck it up in every way imaginable pretty much

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:44:52pm

re: #29 bosforus

Is it too late for the gates?
There's-never-been-a-Secret-Service-security-breac h-before-Obama-gate!
Secret Service report details 91 breaches

Yes, but were any of them reality show stars with an Arab last name? That's the important thing.

58 Pepper Fox  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:45:23pm

re: #50 brookly red

Be careful what you hope for, you may not like what replaces them.

Does this Tea Party really have that big of a base? It seems like they are just really loud and get a lot of attention, but a low percentage of voters.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:45:23pm

re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth

The Tea Party isn't about solutions, it's about stamping feet and bitching.

Most of them don't even know the facts of the matters that they are bitching about, they just know that if it comes from a dem./Obama Whitehouse than it must be evil.

Czars, for example. Or organic vegetables.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:46:07pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Charles, I just wanted to point out that we understand you left the Right and for good reasons. But do you really need to host advertisers who are selling busts of Obama? Seems like a little much to me. But hey, its your blog.

The advertisers host by keyword, IIUC. We also attracted Muslim singles websites.

61 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:46:20pm

re: #56 SpaceJesus

If the Tea Partiers do run a national candidate in '12 they may as well be chanting "4 More Years".

If they run a slate congressional candidates in '10... expect some very deep red areas to turn blue as Dems sneak through on 34% of the vote.

62 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:46:35pm

re: #50 brookly red

Be careful what you hope for, you may not like what replaces them.

exactly bro

63 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:46:36pm

re: #58 Pepper Fox

Does this Tea Party really have that big of a base? It seems like they are just really loud and get a lot of attention, but a low percentage of voters.

there was this poll the other night, there are more voters than you think.

64 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:46:43pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

No, no, raw honey. Saccharine is made from chemicals.

//

The vegans can have stevia, which is made from a PLANT. Unlike sugar.

/

65 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:47:13pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

That one was good :-)

i clicked through a few times just the for heck of it.

66 Pepper Fox  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:47:14pm

re: #63 brookly red

there was this poll the other night, there are more voters than you think.

That's concerning, I'm sure it's mostly old people. Not enough young people get out and vote...

67 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:47:45pm

re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth

The Tea Party isn't about solutions, it's about stamping feet and bitching.

Most of them don't even know the facts of the matters that they are bitching about, they just know that if it comes from a dem./Obama Whitehouse than it must be evil.

Sounds identical to the far Left during all the Bush Derangement Syndrome nonsense (if Bush did it = evil). Crazies don't discriminate - they're all over the place.

68 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:48:13pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Charles, I just wanted to point out that we understand you left the Right and for good reasons. But do you really need to host advertisers who are selling busts of Obama? Seems like a little much to me. But hey, its your blog.

Lurk moar.

69 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:48:31pm

Palin for president is not out of the realm of possibilities, no matter what people think...if you are certainly opposed to another term for BO, what then?

70 Pepper Fox  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:48:44pm

re: #67 mwalke5

Sounds identical to the far Left during all the Bush Derangement Syndrome nonsense (if Bush did it = evil). Crazies don't discriminate - they're all over the place.

Welcome to the wonderful world of politics!

71 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:49:28pm

OT -

Police Harassment!

Recently, the Chula Vista Police Department ran an e-mail forum (a question and answer exchange) with the topic being, "Community Policing." One of the civilian email participants posed the following question, "I would like to know how it is possible for police officers to continually harass people and get away with it?"

From the "other side" (the law enforcement side) Sgt. Bennett, obviously a cop with a sense of humor replied:

"First of all, let me tell you this...it's not easy. In Chula Vista, we average one cop for every 600 people. Only about 60% of those cops are on general duty (or what you might refer to as "patrol") where we do most of our harassing.

The rest are in non-harassing departments that do not allow them contact with the day to day innocents. And at any given moment, only one-fifth of the 60% patrollers are on duty and available for harassing people while the rest are off duty. So roughly, one cop is responsible for harassing about 5,000 residents.

When you toss in the commercial business, and tourist locations that attract people from other areas, sometimes you have a situation where a single cop is responsible for harassing 10,000 or more people a day.

Now, your average ten-hour shift runs 36,000 seconds long. This gives a cop one second to harass a person, and then only three-fourths of a second to eat a donut AND then find a new person to harass. This is not an easy task. To be honest, most cops are not up to this challenge day in and day out. It is just too tiring. What we do is utilize some tools to help us narrow down those people which we can realistically harass.

The tools available to us are as follows:

PHONE: People will call us up and point out things that cause us to focus on a person for special harassment. "My neighbor is beating his wife" is a code phrase used often. This means we'll come out and give somebody some special harassment.

Another popular one is, "There's a guy breaking into a house." The harassment team is then put into action.

CARS: We have special cops assigned to harass people who drive. They like to harass the drivers of fast cars, cars with no insurance or no driver's licenses and the like. It's lots of fun when you pick them out of traffic for nothing more obvious than running a red light. Sometimes you get to really heap the harassment on when you find they have drugs in the car, they are drunk, or have an outstanding warrant on file.

RUNNERS: Some people take off running just at the sight of a police officer. Nothing is quite as satisfying as running after them like a beagle on the scent of a bunny. When you catch them you can harass them for hours.

STATUTES: When we don't have PHONES or CARS and have nothing better to do, there are actually books that give us ideas for reasons to harass folks. They are called "Statutes"; Criminal Codes, Motor Vehicle Codes, etc... They all spell out all sorts of things for which you can really mess with people.

After you read the statute, you can just drive around for awhile until you find someone violating one of these listed offenses and harass them. Just last week I saw a guy trying to steal a car. Well, there's this book we have that says that's not allowed. That meant I got permission to harass this guy. It is a really cool system that we have set up, and it works pretty well.

We seem to have a never-ending supply of folks to harass. And we get away with it. Why? Because for the good citizens who pay the tab, we try to keep the streets safe for them, and they pay us to "harass" some people.

Next time you are in my town, give me the old "single finger wave." That's another one of those codes. It means, "You can harass me."

It's one of our favorites.

72 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:49:31pm

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

Czars Under Obama: "This is America, damnit! We don't have Czars here!"

Czars Under Bush: "Czars? Isn't that the dude famous for saying 'Eat two, Brutus'?"

73 Conservative Moonbat  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:49:50pm

I'm tempted to go to that tea party convention In Feb. It's here in Nashville. I just wish I had a decent digital camera. I can't afford to spend a lot on film.

74 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:49:51pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Charles, I just wanted to point out that we understand you left the Right and for good reasons. But do you really need to host advertisers who are selling busts of Obama? Seems like a little much to me. But hey, its your blog.


DAMN-SKIPPY!!!

Honest to goodness. Do you have one freakin' iota of the mechanics of advertising in general, let alone that of advertising on the Internet?

75 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:50:01pm

re: #68 bosforus

Lurk moar.

should be a draconian rule of some sort

76 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:50:05pm

It finally occurred to them what Freedom Works is really all about? Or who is really funding Freedom Works? It was an outgrowth of Citizens for a Sound Economy which is not unlike a group like Heartland that did most of their work for the tobacco interests. You know, "smoking is good for you." They've also pimped for the health insurance industry.

These Tea Partiers have been astroturfed since the summer by Freedom Works and Dick Armey. It was almost laughable to watch all of those working class people at the 912 march thinking they were marching for "freedom" when in fact they were just marching for health insurance fat cats.

77 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:50:21pm

re: #67 mwalke5

did you not see the sheer number of 'gates on the thread the other night???...

there are dozens more at this stage about Obama than there were about bush, and probably more in total than about clinton.

78 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:50:31pm

re: #75 albusteve

should be a draconian rule of some sort

Isn't it one of the "rules of the internet"?

79 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:50:37pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Charles, I just wanted to point out that we understand you left the Right and for good reasons. But do you really need to host advertisers who are selling busts of Obama? Seems like a little much to me. But hey, its your blog.

And, who is the "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

80 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:50:57pm

re: #66 Pepper Fox

That's concerning, I'm sure it's mostly old people. Not enough young people get out and vote...

I don't recall if there was a breakdown, but I would not make too many assumptions. So many unknowns.

81 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:51:39pm

re: #70 Pepper Fox

Welcome to the wonderful world of politics!

Exactly! Always interesting and always vomit inducing at the same time.

82 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:51:53pm

re: #78 bosforus

Isn't it one of the "rules of the internet"?

it was for me...I lurked for almost three years...hence I knew the shit from the shinola

83 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:51:55pm

re: #79 MandyManners

he's talking for the opinions of his other account too...


;-)

84 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:52:06pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Charles, I just wanted to point out that we understand you left the Right and for good reasons. But do you really need to host advertisers who are selling busts of Obama? Seems like a little much to me. But hey, its your blog.

You don't like the ads, there is always the tip jar.

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:52:18pm

re: #67 mwalke5

A point we can sort of agree on, with one difference. The democrats kicked their far left crazies to the curb, the republicans (much to my embarrassment) seem to be embracing theirs.

86 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:52:49pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Charles, I just wanted to point out that we understand you left the Right and for good reasons. But do you really need to host advertisers who are selling busts of Obama? Seems like a little much to me. But hey, its your blog.

Dagnabit. I've up-dinged you because you've stated the freakin' obvious that this is Charles' blog.

Then, I down-dinged you because you've been a general shit today.

I don't know what to think.

87 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:52:57pm

re: #82 albusteve

Yup, and you only need to lurk for a day or two here to understand AdSense. Seems like every 4 threads or so someone brings it up.

88 Pepper Fox  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:53:10pm

re: #81 mwalke5

Exactly! Always interesting and always vomit inducing at the same time.

True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

Kurt Vonnegut

89 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:53:15pm

re: #74 MandyManners

See my post #54.

90 Decatur Deb  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:53:24pm

re: #71 Racer X

That's gonna be on the bulletin board for a while.

91 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:53:41pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

A point we can sort of agree on, with one difference. The democrats kicked their far left crazies to the curb, the republicans (much to my embarrassment) seem to be embracing theirs.

I could care less about republicans...conservatives, like me, are gonna take a hit...a big one

92 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:54:11pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Charles, I just wanted to point out that we understand you left the Right and for good reasons. But do you really need to host advertisers who are selling busts of Obama? Seems like a little much to me. But hey, its your blog.

Hahahahahahaha...why don't you buy one and *f&*&r$#%!i@&g2 it?

93 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:55:09pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

A point we can sort of agree on, with one difference. The democrats kicked their far left crazies to the curb, the republicans (much to my embarrassment) seem to be embracing theirs.

yeah, but they we smart enough to get their votes first...

94 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:55:32pm

re: #51 Bloodnok

At least put some newspaper down on Charles's floor before you do that.

Who is going to clean this rug?

95 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:55:45pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

A point we can sort of agree on, with one difference. The democrats kicked their far left crazies to the curb, the republicans (much to my embarrassment) seem to be embracing theirs.

How and when did the DNC kick them to the curb?

96 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:56:07pm

re: #87 bosforus

Yup, and you only need to lurk for a day or two here to understand AdSense. Seems like every 4 threads or so someone brings it up.

Charles is very generous like that...a posted open reg is a thing of beauty

97 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:56:16pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

The advertisers host by keyword, IIUC. We also attracted Muslim singles websites.

Those were some really cute Muslim girls..I almost ordered one when I found out they threw in 3 prayer rugs, 2 one size fits all Black Burkas and 4 Korans and a crazy father
What a deal!
/Just teasing lizards

98 generalsparky  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:56:23pm

re: #91 albusteve

I could care less about republicans...conservatives, like me, are gonna take a hit...a big one

Bingo! Although I am in a state where my vote doesn't matter anyway :-/

99 Pepper Fox  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:56:52pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

A point we can sort of agree on, with one difference. The democrats kicked their far left crazies to the curb, the republicans (much to my embarrassment) seem to be embracing theirs.

Because it's all about the votes, gotta do what you can for your team to win!

//

100 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:57:32pm

re: #79 MandyManners

I do. Wanna see?
/

101 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:57:44pm

$75,000:
The amount of money that the head of the powerful tax-writing committee, Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-NY), was forced to report on his taxes after the discovery that he had not reported income from a Dominican Republic rental property. His excuses for the failure started with blaming his wife, then his accountant and finally the fact that he didn't speak Spanish. True [Link: www.nypost.com...]

102 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:58:12pm

re: #95 MandyManners

How and when did the DNC kick them to the curb?

they didn't...reality rids some of them to the dustbin...til next time

103 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:58:14pm

re: #95 MandyManners

How and when did the DNC kick them to the curb?

/hush, they like to believe that...

104 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:58:14pm

re: #89 mwalke5

See my post #54.

See my No. 86.

105 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:59:05pm

re: #98 generalsparky

Bingo! Although I am in a state where my vote doesn't matter anyway :-/

same here...NM is solidly donk, top to bottom

106 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 6:59:43pm

$140,000:
The amount of back taxes and interest that Cabinet nominee Tom Daschle (D) was forced to cough up after the vetting process revealed significant, unexplained tax liabilities. True: [Link: online.wsj.com...] Wall Street Journal

107 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:00:39pm

re: #88 Pepper Fox

True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.

Kurt Vonnegut

Or even your generation. I'm on the cusp of Generations X and Y, and the thought that we will one day run the world makes me alternate between going "muahaha!" and cringing in terror.

108 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:00:42pm

re: #102 albusteve

they didn't...reality rids some of them to the dustbin...til next time


re: #103 brookly red

/hush, they like to believe that...

Eggfuckingzactly.

Some might say that the MFM is an independent arm of the DNC.

I would agree.

109 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:00:47pm

the Iraqi surge is a FAILURE!
(B Obama, 2008)

110 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:01:00pm

re: #95 MandyManners

I seem to recall something about Howard Dean's work on that. I suppose I could find a relevant link. Let me see if I can muster the strength. ;)

re: #103 brookly red

"They"? I'm a "they", now? Fuck you.

111 generalsparky  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:01:13pm

re: #101 Racer X

More from the most ethical Congress in history!

/

112 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:01:22pm

re: #95 MandyManners

Dean and then Mcauliffe - finding centrists to run in red areas and pulling off some wins.

Rolling back the staunchness of some of the platform.

The DNC and the DLC put the fringe groups to the back of the line while paying lipservice and running out to find candidates to win in none-traditional areas.

The RNC have not done that at all.

At no point was Air America a quasi-arm of the DNC, there was open warfare about the tone AA took turning some people off.

The RNC has been running towards the tea party crowd - trying to organise on the fringes of it and move to the center of it - they have been running to Rush Limbaugh, trying at pains to keep Palin on board who appeals to no-one but the base.

It's chalk and cheese.

the DNC and DLC set out to win the elections in 2006 - the RNC are setting up waiting for the democrats to fail.

113 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:01:30pm

re: #101 Racer X

re: #106 Racer X

It's long since time we tackle the tax code. Finding ways to close loopholes and simplify the process would be a great plank for a candidate or party to use in a campaign...

114 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:01:36pm

re: #104 MandyManners

See my No. 86.

I see your 86 and raise you 99 luft balons.

115 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:01:41pm

$12,000,000:
The amount of TARP money provided to community bank One United despite the fact that it did not qualify for funds, and was "under attack from its regulators for allegations of poor lending practices and executive-pay abuses." It turns out that Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA), a key contributor to the Fannie Mae meltdown, just happens to be married to one of the bank's former directors. True: [Link: online.wsj.com...] Wall Street Journal

116 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:02:03pm

re: #107 Kruk

Or even your generation. I'm on the cusp of Generations X and Y, and the thought that we will one day run the world makes me alternate between going "muahaha!" and cringing in terror.

don't worry you will be too busy paying off our debt to do much damage...

117 generalsparky  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:02:09pm

re: #105 albusteve

same here...NM is solidly donk, top to bottom

IL here. No question there. Heh.

118 Pepper Fox  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:02:15pm

So who remembered this is the anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack?

119 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:02:23pm

re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth

I seem to recall something about Howard Dean's work on that. I suppose I could find a relevant link. Let me see if I can muster the strength. ;)

re: #103 brookly red

"They"? I'm a "they", now? Fuck you.

Steady, now.

120 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:02:38pm

re: #113 Sharmuta

close loopholes

Democrats run on closing tax loopholes and are accused of wanting to "raise taxes".

Goodluck on it though... lol

121 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:03:07pm

$23,500,000:
The upper range of net worth Rep. Allan Mollohan (D-WV) accumulated in four years time according to The Washington Post through earmarks of "tens of millions of dollars to groups associated with his own business partners." True: [Link: www.washingtonpost.com...] Washington Post

122 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:03:25pm

re: #113 Sharmuta

re: #106 Racer X

It's long since time we tackle the tax code. Finding ways to close loopholes and simplify the process would be a great plank for a candidate or party to use in a campaign...

not gonna happen...both parties benefit from the mind boggling code and threat of the IRS on your ass...they have us by the nads

123 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:03:36pm

re: #79 MandyManners

And, who is the "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

Only royalty, editors, pregnant women and people with tapeworm are entitled to use "we". - Mark Twain.

PS: I do have a problem with the title of this post, though. To say that Tea Party movement is dissolving into angry chaos implies it was about anything but angry chaos to begin with.

124 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:04:05pm

re: #120 wozzablog

Special interests are highly vested in keeping the tax code complicated, and would fight tax reform tooth and nail regardless of what party proposed the solution.

125 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:04:08pm

re: #114 bosforus

I see your 86 and raise you 99 luft balons.



Ronald Wilson Reagan ROCKS.

126 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:05:06pm

re: #118 Pepper Fox

So who remembered this is the anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack?

me, this morning...once again I salute the victims, and will remember how easily we can get our throats cut

127 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:05:24pm

$3,700,000,000:
($3.7 billion) not to be outdone, this is the estimated value of various defense contracts awarded to a company controlled by the husband of Rep. Diane Feinstein (D-CA). Despite an obvious conflict-of-interest as "a member of the Military Construction Appropriations subcommittee, Sen. Feinstein voted for appropriations worth billions to her husband's firms." True: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

128 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:05:29pm

re: #118 Pepper Fox

So who remembered this is the anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack?

I did. I put out my flag.

129 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:06:14pm

re: #127 Racer X

You mean Dick Cheney, right?

130 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:06:17pm

re: #118 Pepper Fox

So who remembered this is the anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack?

Me. Today is the 68th anniversary of the Day of Infamy.

131 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:06:27pm

re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth

I seem to recall something about Howard Dean's work on that. I suppose I could find a relevant link. Let me see if I can muster the strength. ;)

re: #103 brookly red

"They"? I'm a "they", now? Fuck you.

actually so am I... and you are welcome.

132 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:06:29pm

re: #124 Sharmuta

Special interests are highly vested in keeping the tax code complicated, and would fight tax reform tooth and nail regardless of what party proposed the solution.

it's a multi billion dollar business to file the damned returns alone

133 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:06:38pm

re: #119 MandyManners

Right. Logging off. Merry Christmas, Lizards.

Laters

134 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:06:45pm

$4,190,000,000:
($4.19 billion) the amount of money in the so-called "Stimulus" package devoted to fraudulent voter registration ACORN group under the auspices of "CommunityStabilization Activities". ACORN is currently the subject of a RICO suit in Ohio . True: [Link: www.ocregister.com...]

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:06:49pm

re: #118 Pepper Fox

So who remembered this is the anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack?

Meee! Because, well:

1. The local papers had interviews with vets who survived the attack.

2. The U.S. history project was due today. I teach a number of study halls, so I asked the teacher when the project was due. She said "YOu'll remember this date. December 7.

3. And when my class started with their prayer today I put in a special intention for all the vets of that generation, and asked the kids if they knew what the date was.

136 Cheechako  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:07:01pm

re: #113 Sharmuta

re: #106 Racer X

It's long since time we tackle the tax code. Finding ways to close loopholes and simplify the process would be a great plank for a candidate or party to use in a campaign...


/I think I've heard that before...

137 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:07:21pm

re: #116 brookly red

don't worry you will be too busy paying off our debt to do much damage...

Bah. We'll just default on that just like we do on our credit cards.

138 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:07:53pm

re: #137 Kruk

Bah. We'll just default on that just like we do on our credit cards.

Debtor's prison anyone?

139 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:08:39pm

re: #127 Racer X

$3,700,000,000:
($3.7 billion) not to be outdone, this is the estimated value of various defense contracts awarded to a company controlled by the husband of Rep. Diane Feinstein (D-CA). Despite an obvious conflict-of-interest as "a member of the Military Construction Appropriations subcommittee, Sen. Feinstein voted for appropriations worth billions to her husband's firms." True: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

and the money rolls in on the back of your hard work...chew on that

140 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:08:55pm

re: #127 Racer X

$3,700,000,000:
($3.7 billion) not to be outdone, this is the estimated value of various defense contracts awarded to a company controlled by the husband of Rep. Diane Feinstein (D-CA). Despite an obvious conflict-of-interest as "a member of the Military Construction Appropriations subcommittee, Sen. Feinstein voted for appropriations worth billions to her husband's firms." True: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

Government is often confused with racketeering, and sometimes the line is hard to see. These examples are probably on the "legal" side of the line, but they still stink to high Heaven.

141 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:09:16pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

Meee! Because, well:

1. The local papers had interviews with vets who survived the attack.

2. The U.S. history project was due today. I teach a number of study halls, so I asked the teacher when the project was due. She said "YOu'll remember this date. December 7.

3. And when my class started with their prayer today I put in a special intention for all the vets of that generation, and asked the kids if they knew what the date was.

Prayer? In school? Shhh

142 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:09:18pm

re: #123 Kruk

Only royalty, editors, pregnant women and people with tapeworm are entitled to use "we". - Mark Twain.

PS: I do have a problem with the title of this post, though. To say that Tea Party movement is dissolving into angry chaos implies it was about anything but angry chaos to begin with.

Horsefeathers. I refer to myself in the plural around my house routinely.

143 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:09:19pm

re: #134 Racer X

$4,190,000,000:
($4.19 billion) the amount of money in the so-called "Stimulus" package devoted to fraudulent voter registration ACORN group under the auspices of "CommunityStabilization Activities". ACORN is currently the subject of a RICO suit in Ohio . True: [Link: www.ocregister.com...]

Bullshit, pure and simple.

144 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:09:41pm

re: #141 mwalke5

Prayer? In school? Shhh

Catholic school. Required at the beginning of each class.

145 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:09:45pm

re: #137 Kruk

Bah. We'll just default on that just like we do on our credit cards.


Visa may let you get away with that BS, the Chinese? not so much...

146 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:09:47pm

Looking at all of the fraud committed by politicians it is no wonder that groups like the Tea Parties get attention. People are sick of politicians being dirty politicians.

Why are these dirty politicians not in jail? Because other politicians got their back.

What to do. What to do?

147 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:09:57pm

re: #138 mwalke5

Debtor's prison anyone?

By that time, we'll be the young strong ones, and the baby boomers will be counting on us to pay your social security and Medicare. I feel another muahahha coming on.

148 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:10:10pm

re: #138 mwalke5

Debtor's prison anyone?

they will kill me first...I'll be famous
I hate the feds

149 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:10:15pm

re: #143 avanti

Bullshit, pure and simple.

You're absolutely right. How could this happen in the US?

150 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:10:44pm

re: #143 avanti

Bullshit, pure and simple.

I'm a little skeptical on that one too but here's the Google search results. Granted, they could all just be echoing each other.
[Link: www.google.com...]

151 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:11:04pm

re: #142 MandyManners

Horsefeathers. I refer to myself in the plural around my house routinely.

Hopefully you don't do the Bob Dole 3rd person reference at home..
That could really mess up the kids head.
/

152 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:11:06pm

re: #143 avanti

Bullshit, pure and simple.

then disclaim it

153 political lunatic  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:11:59pm

re: #118 Pepper Fox

I was reminded about it at work. In spite of the fact that I knew that something historic was happening on 9/11, I was too young to clearly remember the reactions of my family. Because of this, I would love to go back in time and witness the reaction to events like Pearl Harbor.

154 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:12:13pm

re: #146 Racer X

Looking at all of the fraud committed by politicians it is no wonder that groups like the Tea Parties get attention. People are sick of politicians being dirty politicians.

Why are these dirty politicians not in jail? Because other politicians got their back.

What to do. What to do?

be a pauper like me...mwahahaha!

155 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:12:18pm

re: #118 Pepper Fox

So who remembered this is the anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack?

The Kid's school did with half-mast flags and a special assembly at which WWII vets were present.

156 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:12:39pm

re: #149 cliffster

You're absolutely right. How could this happen in the US?

which brings us back to the subject of tea praties...

157 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:13:03pm

re: #146 Racer X

Looking at all of the fraud committed by politicians it is no wonder that groups like the Tea Parties get attention. People are sick of politicians being dirty politicians.

Why are these dirty politicians not in jail? Because other politicians got their back.

What to do. What to do?

Vote the bums out. Don't just say it. Do it. Could you imagine the entire House being comprised of Freshmen?

Bah- until the people decide they're going to hold their elected official accountable, corruption won't change.

158 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:13:27pm

re: #153 political lunatic

I was reminded about it at work. In spite of the fact that I knew that something historic was happening on 9/11, I was too young to clearly remember the reactions of my family. Because of this, I would love to go back in time and witness the reaction to events like Pearl Harbor.

Their reactions probably aren't too hard to imagine. Spend an hour or two watching come chronological footage of 9/11 and you'll probably react the same way everyone else did.

159 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:13:57pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Government is often confused with racketeering, and sometimes the line is hard to see. These examples are probably on the "legal" side of the line, but they still stink to high Heaven.

More on the ethical side of the line than the legal. This is the Ethics Committee territory and they should be take up these issues if they haven't already.

A Member must abstain from voting on a matter on the House floor only if the Member has a direct, distinct personal or pecuniary interest in the matter./highlights03.html#ConflictsofInterest" target="_blank">http://usinfo.org/enus/government/branches/highlights03.html#ConflictsofInterest

160 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:14:09pm

re: #156 brookly red

which brings us back to the subject of tea praties...

got any ideas on how to hold an anti-corruption rally without attracting the loonies? Because Chicago is sore in need of anti-corruption pressure (and has been its entire life).

161 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:14:54pm

re: #142 MandyManners

That's because you rule the roost! Good evening, Lizards. They are now calling for 5-8 inches of the white stuff overnight. I have to be across town to the bakery by 10:00 am to pick up the vanilla sponge cake with lemon buttercream filling and a dozen frosted sugar cookies. Better get out the tire chains!

162 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:15:01pm

Funny how no one ever asks why those ads for Sarah Palin's book are showing up at LGF.

163 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:15:14pm

re: #143 avanti

Bullshit, pure and simple.

Perhaps, but ACORN does get taxpayer money. My point in quoting these examples of taxpayer funds being abused was there is one hell of an opportunity for politicians to do the right thing.

Too often they choose to grease each others pockets instead.

164 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:15:20pm

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

got any ideas on how to hold an anti-corruption rally without attracting the loonies? Because Chicago is sore in need of anti-corruption pressure (and has been its entire life).

it used to be called a grand jury...

165 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:15:57pm

re: #157 Sharmuta

Vote the bums out. Don't just say it. Do it. Could you imagine the entire House being comprised of Freshmen?

Bah- until the people decide they're going to hold their elected official accountable, corruption won't change.

when the lawmakers themselves are disloyal to their office, you have a hell of a problem...there are not enough concerned voters to turn it, so far in my lifetime anyway...I'm a very robust skeptic...sorry to say

166 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:16:17pm

re: #162 Charles

Funny how no one ever asks why those ads for Sarah Palin's book are showing up at LGF.

She's purdy!

*redneck chortle*

167 political lunatic  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:17:04pm

re: #158 bosforus

True, but I'm the type who likes to be able to vividly remember that kind of stuff. I don't like using my imagination when I feel like I should remember something.

168 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:17:24pm

re: #152 albusteve

then disclaim it

It has been done over and over, but here you go again.
There was a part of the bill that could technically apply, but only a small portion for housing that ACORN could in theory apply for, but they never have, nor have now.
Show me a link where they received any stimulus money.

ACORN.

169 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:17:32pm

re: #164 brookly red

it used to be called a grand jury...

Zing!

170 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:17:42pm

re: #163 Racer X

Perhaps, but ACORN does get taxpayer money. My point in quoting these examples of taxpayer funds being abused was there is one hell of an opportunity for politicians to do the right thing.

Too often they choose to grease each others pockets instead.

When do they not?

171 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:17:51pm

re: #133 Slumbering Behemoth

Right. Logging off. Merry Christmas, Lizards.

Laters

MERRY CHRISTMAS!


172 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:18:06pm

Obama as Reagan

I've been struck for some time by the similarity of circumstance between Presidents Reagan and Obama. Both replaced deeply unpopular predecessors. Both enjoyed significant gains for their party in both houses of Congress. Both faced "worst since the depression" economic circumstances. And each in his own very different ways attempted to reshape government in the early months in office.

With a bit more than 10 months of approval data on Obama, we can now make a more meaningful comparison than was possible at the first 100 days look.

The similarity of approval trajectories is striking for Reagan and Obama. Reagan started lower, but since the 3rd month of office the two have moved along quite similar paths.

173 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:18:55pm

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

That is a really good question. What about posting signs in children's re-sale clothing stores, coffee shops, other small businesses about education monies being used for ill (no idea if true or not). Get the liberal moms all riled up. That helped in NYC.

174 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:19:51pm

re: #167 political lunatic

True, but I'm the type who likes to be able to vividly remember that kind of stuff. I don't like using my imagination when I feel like I should remember something.

I've got a 2-hour vhs cassette of random news from the day. It's a very odd/creepy/horrific feeling to go back and watch it though I've only gone back and watched a little bit of it one time. Glad I have it though.

175 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:20:47pm

re: #162 Charles

I'm partial to the inflating/deflating woman, myself.

176 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:20:54pm

re: #134 Racer X

$4,190,000,000:
($4.19 billion) the amount of money in the so-called "Stimulus" package devoted to fraudulent voter registration ACORN group under the auspices of "CommunityStabilization Activities". ACORN is currently the subject of a RICO suit in Ohio . True: [Link: www.ocregister.com...]

ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS
ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS
ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS
ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS
ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS
ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS
ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS
ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS ODS

177 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:21:19pm

re: #163 Racer X

Perhaps, but ACORN does get taxpayer money. My point in quoting these examples of taxpayer funds being abused was there is one hell of an opportunity for politicians to do the right thing.

Too often they choose to grease each others pockets instead.

Yes, and have for many, many years. But not billions, a few million over 10 years, and that's pretty far off.

178 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:22:35pm

re: #169 mwalke5

Zing!

I firmly believe that half our problems would go away if we would simply prosecute the corrupt.

179 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:22:53pm

re: #164 brookly red

it used to be called a grand jury...

Those just get bought off around here, or their investigation nails a few people but leaves the culture of corruption intact.

180 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:24:16pm

From VSL:

Surely most of us believe ourselves to be fair-minded, honest and—of course—correct when it comes to issues of right and wrong. But how do your individual beliefs match up to others? The (highly addictive) site YourMorals.org provides easy-to-complete tests of your ethics, values and morality, with instant results that chart where your judgments fall amid other participants’.

The Web site was created by five social psychologists from the University of Virginia, the University of Southern California and the University of California, Irving. After completing a fairly painless sign-up process, you can choose among a ton of different tests, with new ones put up regularly.

Learn how vengeful a person you are; how you relate to others in terms of romance; or which punishment best fits a crime. You might be surprised at the results, and if you start worrying about this being just another Internet time-waster, don’t: Consider it a contribution to science.

181 palomino  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:24:20pm

re: #134 Racer X

$4,190,000,000:
($4.19 billion) the amount of money in the so-called "Stimulus" package devoted to fraudulent voter registration ACORN group under the auspices of "CommunityStabilization Activities". ACORN is currently the subject of a RICO suit in Ohio . True: [Link: www.ocregister.com...]

One problem: this is a complete misrepresentation of the facts. There was no 4.2 Bil "devoted" to ACORN. Try to find commentators in addition to Steyn and Malkin if you're interested in things like nuance or accuracy. Your text to link...

182 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:24:24pm

re: #176 MandyManners

Upding for the NKC! What a voice.

183 political lunatic  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:24:53pm

re: #174 bosforus

I find it hard to believe that I was only in 6th grade that day. Because of that, I didn't see anything until I went over my grandfather's house after school, although the principal did interrupt class to tell everyone with a look like the world was literally ending. I paid no mind and went about my day.

184 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:25:17pm

re: #177 avanti

Yes, and have for many, many years. But not billions, a few million over 10 years, and that's pretty far off.

govt is essentially corrupt by nature...your confidence is misguided, millions/billions...5 years/20 years...plenty of wrongdoing no matter how many hairs you split...here's a hint, the govt is not your friend...you are a pile of money waiting to be legally exploited and if that's okay with you so be it...not me

185 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:25:36pm

Hopefully when they do finally fall apart they can take conservatism back to the fringe where it belongs.

/also good morning.

186 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:25:43pm

re: #177 avanti

Yes, and have for many, many years. But not billions, a few million over 10 years, and that's pretty far off.

A million here, a million there. Pretty soon we start talking about real money.

187 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:25:59pm

re: #157 Sharmuta

Vote the bums out. Don't just say it. Do it. Could you imagine the entire House being comprised of Freshmen?

Bah- until the people decide they're going to hold their elected official accountable, corruption won't change.

So much of the corruption and the lack of ethical behavior is very well hidden. Unless and until corruption and fraud are discovered many of these folks are politically active for many many years. Even when fraud or unethical behavior is found, many remain in office.

Think of Mark Sanford.

Or David Vitter - conservative, Christian Senator from Louisiana - pro-life, pro-abstinence education, etc etc - found to be consorting with prostitutes when his phone number turned up in the records of the DC Madam.

Or William Jefferson - served in the US House of Reps for 9 terms, beginning 1991. No investigation for fraud until 2005, resulting in the discovery of his freezer cash. The fraud had to have been going on for some time prior to 2005.

188 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:26:00pm

re: #178 brookly red

I firmly believe that half our problems would go away if we would simply prosecute the corrupt.

the prosecutors are corrupt

189 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:26:04pm
Some Tea Partiers have voiced anger and concern over whether the powerful groups are “astroturfing” what is supposed to be a grass-roots coalition — the idea that the movement is being organized by old-fashioned GOP bigwigs to promote their agenda.

I am just shocked -- shocked, I say! -- at this completely stunning development that nobody could ever have predicted.

190 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:26:32pm

re: #181 palomino

Mark Steyn (who wrote that OC Register column) is a dishonest douchebag. He's written several articles lying about the Stimulus spending. I don't believe anything he writes.

191 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:27:17pm

re: #181 palomino

One problem: this is a complete misrepresentation of the facts. There was no 4.2 Bil "devoted" to ACORN. Try to find commentators in addition to Steyn and Malkin if you're interested in things like nuance or accuracy. Your text to link...

I anticipation of the rejection of Fact Check or Media Matters as a link.

link.

192 mwalke5  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:27:51pm

re: #188 albusteve

the prosecutors are corrupt

Not all of them. There are a few good ones out there (most notably Patrick Fitzgerald).

193 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:28:05pm

re: #189 negativ

I am just shocked -- shocked, I say! -- at this completely stunning development that nobody could ever have predicted.

'cept Charles & Killgore.

194 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:28:12pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

You're wrong. Steyn is more honest and perceptive than the vast majority of political observers.

195 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:28:20pm

re: #187 reine.de.tout

It could be worse.

Over here in the Philippines we have a former president convicted of embezzlement...running again this year.

/HURR.

196 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:28:25pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

Mark Steyn (who wrote that OC Register column) is a dishonest douchebag. He's written several articles lying about the Stimulus spending. I don't believe anything he writes.

Mark Steyn is corrupt...what's new?...everybody has an agenda and none of them have your welfare in mind

197 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:28:30pm

re: #187 reine.de.tout

Political fraud is not a left or right issue. Power corrupts. Period.

We need to limit political power.

198 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:28:49pm

re: #195 laZardo

It could be worse.

Over here in the Philippines we have a former president convicted of embezzlement...running again this year.

/HURR.

argh!

199 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:28:50pm

re: #195 laZardo

Top o' the morning to ya!

200 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:29:08pm

re: #189 negativ

You may also be surpised to know there is gambling in Casablanca...

201 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:29:28pm

re: #199 bosforus

Y'arr.

202 kellygrrrl  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:29:55pm

"Green Balloons" = safe word for ReThug Sadomasochist
[Link: primebuzz.kcstar.com...]

"The complaint alleges Jetton "recklessly caused serious physical injury to --- by hitting her on the head, and choking her resulting in unconsciousness and the loss of the function of part of her body."
"The affidavit claims the assault occurred during the night and into the morning of Nov. 16. It says Jetton and the victim agreed on a "safe word" "to use as a stop word during intercourse."
The safe word was allegedly "green balloons." The next day, Jetton allegedly told the victim: "You should have said green balloons."

See GREEN RAINBOW [Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]
ewww!

203 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:30:14pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

I wouldn't go that far.

He's not the worst of a bad bunch - but he's not in the top third of the best.

204 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:30:19pm

re: #197 Racer X

Political fraud is not a left or right issue. Power corrupts. Period.

We need to limit political power.

The oil of that engine is money, which is why I think we need to find ways to restrict Congress' ability to spend money. Make it more transparent, make them balance the budget.

205 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:31:11pm

re: #197 Racer X

Political fraud is not a left or right issue. Power corrupts. Period.

We need to limit political power.

If a person is politically active, in office - they will have a degree of power, and they will be affected by it. I just see no way around that.

I worked for an elected official for a time. He was absolutely the one of the best bosses I ever had; I thoroughly enjoyed working for him. Humble, however, he was not.

206 kellygrrrl  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:31:17pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

The entire OC Ragster is disgusting slime ... the good news the pathological wingnut OC family who has run it for years is finally going under and the OC Rag will be gone soon

207 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:31:20pm

re: #197 Racer X

Political fraud is not a left or right issue. Power corrupts. Period.

We need to limit political power.

Here's how people get suckered into allowing corrupt people into office..

"I believe everyone, not just the rich, should get "

208 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:31:26pm

Again, my point was to show that there needs to be a political watchdog organization to make sure we the people do not get fleeced.

And don't tell me "well, it's only a million".

209 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:31:30pm

re: #204 Sharmuta

The oil of that engine is money, which is why I think we need to find ways to restrict Congress' ability to spend money. Make it more transparent, make them balance the budget.

/& check in their freezers...

210 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:31:43pm

re: #198 reine.de.tout

Our other candidates include the son of another former president (popular among those ironically criticizing political dynasties), the current Secretary of Defense (previous candidate's cousin), a prominent local businessman (endorsed by Marcos' party) and a popular preacher.

Forget the imperialism, I think the worst legacy of the American colonial period was inheriting American-style politics. D:

211 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:32:01pm

re: #204 Sharmuta

The oil of that engine is money, which is why I think we need to find ways to restrict Congress' ability to spend money. Make it more transparent, make them balance the budget.

personally, I've figured that out...

212 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:32:02pm

re: #162 Charles

Funny how no one ever asks why those ads for Sarah Palin's book are showing up at LGF.

Sa-a-rah,
Sarah baby,
Oh Sarah,
Sarah baby,

Sa-a-a-a-a-a-a-ra bay-yay-bee,
Sarah baby
Sa-a-rah won't you come out tonight.

213 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:32:36pm

re: #202 kellygrrrl

Green balloons? Green rainbows?

Definitely not one of the users on this site, that's for sure. ;D

214 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:33:00pm

re: #192 mwalke5

Not all of them. There are a few good ones out there (most notably Patrick Fitzgerald).

Fitz is a good man, and he did get Blago run out of Illinois' Governors Mansion, but its not enough. To cure its corruption problems, Illinois (and especially Cook County) needs a viable alternative to the Democratic Party. For the state as a whole, the Republican Party can and hopefully will step back into that role. Chicago however, likely needs a center-left Honesty Party. Even a center-right GOP would still not get enough traction here.

215 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:33:03pm

re: #200 wozzablog

You may also be surpised to know there is gambling in Casablanca...

gasp!~

someone fetch the smelling salts; I feel as if I might faaadv252asvjjj

216 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:33:05pm

re: #208 Racer X

Again, my point was to show that there needs to be a political watchdog organization to make sure we the people do not get fleeced.

And don't tell me "well, it's only a million".

well maybe the DOJ could lo... nawww never mind.

217 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:33:09pm

re: #212 Spare O'Lake

Sa-a-rah,
Sarah baby,
Oh Sarah,
Sarah baby,

Sa-a-a-a-a-a-a-ra bay-yay-bee,
Sarah baby
Sa-a-rah won't you come out tonight.

Spare O' Vali?

218 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:33:35pm

re: #183 political lunatic

But I doubt anything I felt on 9/11 compared to how my grandpa felt pulling into Pearl Harbor on Dec. 12 as a radio man on the USS Chicago. He said there were still bodies on the ground and in the water. That was all I ever heard him say about it. I can't imagine anything else he'd want to say about it.

219 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:33:40pm
220 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:34:31pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

Green Party?

/if only they could stop obsessing over Nader...

221 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:35:08pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon
You seem to ignore all the proof provided on this thread that he's using dishonest and faulty logic...

Faulty Logic

Boehner and Vitter commit two logical fallacies. Their argument has the form:

1. The stimulus bill provides funding for redeveloping neighborhoods.
2. ACORN does work in redeveloping neighborhoods.
3. Therefore the stimulus bill provides funding for ACORN.

That’s an example of what philosophers call the undistributed middle fallacy. It’s a common mistake; in May 2008, we caught Sen. John McCain making a similar logical blunder. But Boehner and Vitter compound their error by treating different terms as if they had the same meaning. ACORN does indeed work in redeveloping neighborhoods, but the work that it does is not the same sort of work for which NSP provides funding. By pretending as if the two are the same, Boehner and Vitter commit the fallacy of equivocation.

We’re accustomed to seeing logical fallacies in political arguments. But working two of them into a single argument is unusually bad logic.

He's lying and he gets away with it because people like you don't care. Good luck with that.

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:35:12pm

BTW, to all the Catholic lizards, a reminder: tomorrow is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, and a holy day of obligation. Please report to Mass tomorrow. I am not obligated, but will be attending anyway, accompanied by five hundred fifty teenagers.

223 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:35:31pm

re: #208 Racer X

Again, my point was to show that there needs to be a political watchdog organization to make sure we the people do not get fleeced.

And don't tell me "well, it's only a million".

Fine, I was not disputing that, just the billions to ACORN BS.

224 Summer Seale  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:36:17pm

re: #45 mwalke5

Charles, I just wanted to point out that we understand you left the Right and for good reasons. But do you really need to host advertisers who are selling busts of Obama? Seems like a little much to me. But hey, its your blog.

I understand you said you're not a techie later on - ok, makes sense. =)

However, you didn't seem the mind the ads for Palin's book etc...right?

Just asking.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:36:47pm

re: #218 bosforus

But I doubt anything I felt on 9/11 compared to how my grandpa felt pulling into Pearl Harbor on Dec. 12 as a radio man on the USS Chicago. He said there were still bodies on the ground and in the water. That was all I ever heard him say about it. I can't imagine anything else he'd want to say about it.

Ruth McKenney writes that the first she and her husband heard about Pearl Harbor was from their six-year-old son. He had been sitting in the kitchen listening to a radio show with their maid, and ran out to them yelling, "Mary says turn on the radio QUICK, there is a WAR!"

226 generalsparky  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:36:54pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, to all the Catholic lizards, a reminder: tomorrow is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, and a holy day of obligation. Please report to Mass tomorrow. I am not obligated, but will be attending anyway, accompanied by five hundred fifty teenagers.

Thank you for the reminder :-)

227 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:36:55pm

re: #218 bosforus

But I doubt anything I felt on 9/11 compared to how my grandpa felt pulling into Pearl Harbor on Dec. 12 as a radio man on the USS Chicago. He said there were still bodies on the ground and in the water. That was all I ever heard him say about it. I can't imagine anything else he'd want to say about it.

I'm glad he made it through the war. CA-29 didn't; She was sunk by Japanese Mitsubishi G4M2 "Betty" bombers 13 months later.

228 Ascher  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:37:13pm

Charles, if you are reading this thread: did you remove the link to the Washington Times article posted by EE? The one referring to "warmists" and the "warmist bible"? Because, damn, that link pissed me off.

229 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:37:16pm

re: #223 avanti

Fine, I was not disputing that, just the billions to ACORN BS.

one dollar, a billion dollars what ever happened to GP?

230 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:37:52pm

re: #223 avanti

Fine, I was not disputing that, just the billions to ACORN BS.

Got it. Ignore the ACORN part.

How do you feel about dirty politicians?

Money spent on bullshit pet projects?

Money for votes?

231 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:38:21pm

re: #217 albusteve

Spare O' Vali?

Yup, just saw Jersey Boys last week and I got about 10 of their hits stuck in my brain.

232 Ascher  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:38:41pm

re: #230 Racer X

Got it. Ignore the ACORN part.

How do you feel about dirty politicians?

Money spent on bullshit pet projects?

Money for votes?

Wait - I could get MONEY for my vote??? How come I have not heard of this wonderful business opportunity before?

233 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:39:00pm

re: #230 Racer X

It's all good. Democrats are in power.

234 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:39:38pm

re: #231 Spare O'Lake

Yup, just saw Jersey Boys last week and I got about 10 of their hits stuck in my brain.

thought so...doo wop bro

235 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:39:38pm

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

I'm glad he made it through the war.

Thank you. As am I.
:)

236 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:39:49pm

re: #221 Killgore Trout

Point conceded about the funding, but he's still right about the nature of ACORN. That however, is not an excuse for his being wrong and he should retract the statement in question.

237 generalsparky  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:40:38pm

re: #232 imp_62

Wait - I could get MONEY for my vote??? How come I have not heard of this wonderful business opportunity before?

Ask Mary Landrieu. She got $300 million for hers.

238 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:40:47pm

I went to the dentist today, all is good!

No, I do not have dental insurance but I can afford $120 for a cleaning twice a year. Five years ago, when I did have dental insurance, and neglected to go for regular maintenance, I had 2 root canals, 3 fillings, a crown and 2 deep cleanings which cost me $500 in copays.

Since then I have learned that daily brushing and flossing (like they tell you as a kid) is the best dental insurance you can have.

239 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:40:58pm

re: #230 Racer X

Got it. Ignore the ACORN part.

How do you feel about dirty politicians?

Money spent on bullshit pet projects?

Money for votes?

Ah, I'm opposed.

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:41:08pm

re: #226 generalsparky

Thank you for the reminder :-)

No problem, ma'am!

241 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:41:37pm

re: #238 Alouette

Speaking of brushing and flossing, gonna do that now. Brb.

242 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:42:03pm

re: #239 avanti

Ah, I'm opposed.

LOL!

Can we sign you up for the Tea Party newsletter? LOL!

243 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:42:08pm

re: #233 cliffster

My goodness, no sarc tag and two updings?

244 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:42:10pm

re: #236 Dark_Falcon

Point conceded about the funding, but he's still right about the nature of ACORN. That however, is not an excuse for his being wrong and he should retract the statement in question.

who gives a shit about what Steyn thinks?...ACORN is corrupt period and should be disbanded until they get their act together...apologists for ACORN are enablers

245 Ascher  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:42:39pm

re: #237 generalsparky

Ask Mary Landrieu. She got $300 million for hers.

It's like that movie "Swing Vote" with Kevin Costner. Only the last vote counts in a tie ;)

Ye gods, what an awful movie that was - tawdry, cloying and stupid. How come Costner couldn't turn good looks and a lack of talent into a career of the same magnitude as Nicholas Cage?

246 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:42:46pm

re: #204 Sharmuta

Once upon a time there was a surplus... and then came a president who never saw a spending bill he didn't like or a tax cut he couldn't say no too... then we got a deficit... and an economic slump that required spedning to sort out... people don't want to increase Government revenues... and we keep going...

The economy will rebound - stimulus won't have been entirely wasted, TARP will be repaid at a profit (eventually)... but tax rates will have to go back to where they were when Bush took over, and local taxes will have to go back up too.

Before Stimulus the states had to make swinging cuts on services - thats why Crist supported it - to keep teachers on payroll and prevent the curtting of vital services. Those conditions were created by tax cuts and decreased revenues.

To balance a budget taxes have to go up - it's unfortunate, but thats what has to happen.

247 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:43:09pm

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

248 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:43:34pm

re: #245 imp_62

It's like that movie "Swing Vote" with Kevin Costner. Only the last vote counts in a tie ;)

Ye gods, what an awful movie that was - tawdry, cloying and stupid. How come Costner couldn't turn good looks and a lack of talent into a career of the same magnitude as Nicholas Cage?

Kevin Costner: the 2nd most sucky actor ever.

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:43:42pm

re: #247 MandyManners

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

Oh dear. I take it this wasn't supposed to happen for a bit?

250 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:43:45pm

re: #245 imp_62

It's like that movie "Swing Vote" with Kevin Costner. Only the last vote counts in a tie ;)

Ye gods, what an awful movie that was - tawdry, cloying and stupid. How come Costner couldn't turn good looks and a lack of talent into a career of the same magnitude as Nicholas Cage?

Costner should play more bad guys.

/I thought Waterworld was good!

251 generalsparky  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:43:48pm

re: #247 MandyManners

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

NOOO! I fear that day. My heart is breaking for you :-/

252 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:43:49pm

re: #247 MandyManners

OMG, who told him?

253 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:44:01pm

re: #247 MandyManners

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

Well, not in that language.

254 Ascher  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:44:16pm

re: #248 Alouette

Kevin Costner: the 2nd most sucky actor ever.

I'll bite: who is #1?

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:44:27pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Well, not in that language.

He is your son. I would not be surprised. But glad to hear it.

256 Kragar  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:44:36pm

I for one am SHOCKED that a movement as rock solid, stable and inclusive as the Tea Partyers could collapse into a feeding frenzy on conspiracy and overblown rhetoric.

SHOCKED!!!

///

257 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:44:39pm

re: #243 prairiefire

My goodness, no sarc tag and two updings?

and one of them from a democrat... oh my.

258 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:44:43pm

re: #253 MandyManners

Pheww! Somehow i don't see him being in one piece of flesh if he had!

259 generalsparky  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:44:46pm

re: #245 imp_62

I will take your word for it. I have never even heard of that movie and it sounds like I dodged a bullet there lol

260 Ascher  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:44:53pm

re: #253 MandyManners

That's a shame. Ultimately the end of innocence hurts the parent more than the child.

261 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:45:04pm

re: #207 cliffster

Here's how people get suckered into allowing corrupt people into office..

"I believe everyone, not just the rich, should get "

I don't get the quote (and not the commie allusion), but as to the first part I think overall that fundamentally corrupt people allow corrupt people into office, and they teach other people that these are ones to elect, if they expect to get a piece of the action, whatever it may be.

It's what some would call a Meme. Nasty infectious stuff without a good vaccine.

262 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:45:11pm

re: #247 MandyManners

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

Santa can go piss up a chimney!

263 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:45:13pm

re: #247 MandyManners

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

Zedushka should pay him a visit. When he goes to CVS to pick up his meds, little kids point and stare.

264 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:45:15pm

re: #254 imp_62

I'll bite: who is #1?

Linda Lovelace.

265 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:45:20pm

re: #236 Dark_Falcon

Point conceded about the funding, but he's still right about the nature of ACORN. That however, is not an excuse for his being wrong and he should retract the statement in question.


That art5icle is almost a year old. If it was an honest mistake he would have admitted it. He's lying and he knows it. You know it and I know it.
Don't worry about the "nature" of ACORN. It's not important. ACORN is not important. It's preposterous that you people think ACORN is the center of the fucking universe. Just because Glenn Beck draws it on a chalkboard does not make it so. ACORN is a waste of time. I have no interest in ACORN or what people have to say about. Maybe conservatives could start working on ideas instead of pursuing the imaginary evil empire of ACORN.

266 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:45:30pm

re: #246 wozzablog

Once upon a time there was a surplus... and then came a president who never saw a spending bill he didn't like or a tax cut he couldn't say no too... then we got a deficit... and an economic slump that required spedning to sort out... people don't want to increase Government revenues... and we keep going...

The economy will rebound - stimulus won't have been entirely wasted, TARP will be repaid at a profit (eventually)... but tax rates will have to go back to where they were when Bush took over, and local taxes will have to go back up too.

Before Stimulus the states had to make swinging cuts on services - thats why Crist supported it - to keep teachers on payroll and prevent the curtting of vital services. Those conditions were created by tax cuts and decreased revenues.

To balance a budget taxes have to go up - it's unfortunate, but thats what has to happen.

how do you feel about inheritance taxes and capital gains taxes?...that's simple thievery imo

267 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:45:57pm

re: #254 imp_62

I'll bite: who is #1?

So many contenders, so little space to list them all.

268 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:46:10pm

re: #257 brookly red

What is this blog coming too...oh, wait. Nevermind. : ) Happy to be here!

269 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:46:28pm

re: #246 wozzablog

To balance a budget taxes have to go up - it's unfortunate, but thats what has to happen.

Uh- coupled with spending cuts.

270 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:46:47pm

re: #228 imp_62

Charles, if you are reading this thread: did you remove the link to the Washington Times article posted by EE? The one referring to "warmists" and the "warmist bible"? Because, damn, that link pissed me off.

Do you know that the "!" button is the "report" button?
If you believe the post is reportable.
NOT just because it "pissed me off"...

271 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:46:55pm

re: #247 MandyManners

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

The first part mean he's got brains. I hope you are kidding about the second.

272 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:47:02pm

re: #264 cliffster

Linda Lovelace.

/talk about dating yourself...

273 Summer Seale  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:47:30pm

ACORN is such a non-issue. If you listen to the right, you'd think they were some sort of super secret controlling evil dudes in a volcano HQ someplace like SPECTRE.

It's completely ludicrous.

Fine, I don't think they're necessarily and amazingly upright organization with a lot of their members, but honestly...

On the local level, they're probably staffed by tons of people who got a GED at best and want a self-respecting job that can help the community, and themselves, to improve their lot in life. It's probably also staffed at the top local levels by lots of underpaid and overeducated idealists who just came from the ivory tower into the ghetto and can't feel anything but shock and horror at the brutality of life that they see and can only respond from the gut on a naive basis.

That's something to be feared? The right is off the hinges on this one in such a huge way.

Just had to put in my two cents about anything to do with ACORN.

274 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:47:31pm

re: #264 cliffster

Linda Lovelace.

Those Betamax still around?

275 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:47:41pm

re: #244 albusteve

who gives a shit about what Steyn thinks?...ACORN is corrupt period and should be disbanded until they get their act together...apologists for ACORN are enablers

ACORN has some problems, but they do a lot of good at the community level. The problem is with political bias, they work largely with the poor and minorities and they are by and large Democrats. No question that they help the left more than the right.

276 Ascher  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:47:55pm

re: #270 Floral Giraffe

Do you know that the "!" button is the "report" button?
If you believe the post is reportable.
NOT just because it "pissed me off"...

Clarification: I did not think it was reportable, nor did I report it. I posted a comment to the posted link, and then the link disappeared.

277 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:47:59pm

re: #252 prairiefire

OMG, who told him?

No one. He said he figured it out by looking at the NORAD site. He said ther was no way Santa could be real.

278 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:48:00pm

re: #246 wozzablog

To balance a budget taxes have to go up - it's unfortunate, but thats what has to happen.

No, no, no, and fuck no.

I'm paying over 36% of what I earn now to the feds. California has a 10% state tax now. Fuck that.

The government gets plenty of money to accomplish what is needed. They waste too damn much. They are inefficient. They do not hold people accountable for their actions or performance.

279 jaunte  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:48:14pm

re: #272 brookly red

/talk about dating yourself...

She was made famous by people who dated themselves.

280 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:48:35pm

re: #263 Alouette

Zedushka should pay him a visit. When he goes to CVS to pick up his meds, little kids point and stare.

Apropos of nothing, except the conjunction, a blogfriend in Israel informs me that the little kids in his West Bank neighborhood refer to the mysterious old man in the red and white suit who shows up on Sukkot decoration packages as "Savta Sukkot".

281 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:48:40pm

re: #274 Naso Tang

Om my goodness, my dad and the betamax! Thank goodness he broke that bad habit!

282 palomino  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:48:42pm

ACORN has become to the right what Halliburton was to the left. It's a rallying cry, more than a cogent argument, meant to represent everything evil and corrupt about the administration.

Facts and the exculpatory details of specific cases don't really matter much once you've bought into the basic premise that ACORN/Halliburton are trying to undermine everything you believe in.

283 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:48:43pm

re: #247 MandyManners

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

You're gonna make me cry!

284 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:49:04pm

re: #279 jaunte

She was made famous by people who dated themselves.

...ewww.

/ :B

285 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:49:21pm

re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist

He is your son. I would not be surprised. But glad to hear it.

He said "suck" the other day.

He'll never say it again.

I'm quite capable of discrimination.

286 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:49:34pm

re: #275 avanti

ACORN has some problems, but they do a lot of good at the community level. The problem is with political bias, they work largely with the poor and minorities and they are by and large Democrats. No question that they help the left more than the right.

they are corrupt and should be shut down...why not?...their role in the community will be filled

287 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:05pm

re: #261 Naso Tang

I don't get the quote (and not the commie allusion), but as to the first part I think overall that fundamentally corrupt people allow corrupt people into office, and they teach other people that these are ones to elect, if they expect to get a piece of the action, whatever it may be.

It's what some would call a Meme. Nasty infectious stuff without a good vaccine.

The quote was hijacked by LGF hamsters' hatred of greater-than and less-than signs. But whatever. People vote for politicians who promise them free shit. Those politicians get in office and enact programs that make their buddies rich, under the auspice of giving people free shit. Don't worry, the rich can pay for all of it.

288 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:06pm

re: #250 Racer X

Costner should play more bad guys.

/I thought Waterworld was good!

It was good because of Dennis Hopper. q;

289 kellygrrrl  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:21pm

re: #213 laZardo

he's a Rethug from TN, one who the TeaPartiers and Outraged Patriots support ... and he just got busted for roughin' up his S&M partner.

just another wingnut hypocrite ... thought you all might get a chuckle

290 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:24pm

re: #285 MandyManners

I'm quite capable of discrimination.

RACSIT!

291 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:24pm

re: #277 MandyManners

No one. He said he figured it out by looking at the NORAD site. He said ther was no way Santa could be real.

I'm sorry, the little-boy years are over.

Congratulations. Your son is smart.

292 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:25pm

re: #279 jaunte

She was made famous by people who dated themselves.

gotta hand it to yah, your right.

293 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:37pm

re: #277 MandyManners

No one. He said he figured it out by looking at the NORAD site. He said ther was no way Santa could be real.

Science! It robs our children of their purity and innocence!

294 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:50pm

re: #273 Summer

ACORN is such a non-issue. If you listen to the right, you'd think they were some sort of super secret controlling evil dudes in a volcano HQ someplace like SPECTRE.

It's completely ludicrous.

Fine, I don't think they're necessarily and amazingly upright organization with a lot of their members, but honestly...

On the local level, they're probably staffed by tons of people who got a GED at best and want a self-respecting job that can help the community, and themselves, to improve their lot in life. It's probably also staffed at the top local levels by lots of underpaid and overeducated idealists who just came from the ivory tower into the ghetto and can't feel anything but shock and horror at the brutality of life that they see and can only respond from the gut on a naive basis.

That's something to be feared? The right is off the hinges on this one in such a huge way.

Just had to put in my two cents about anything to do with ACORN.

I think you pegged that quite nicely.

295 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:52pm

Quote of the day for me while watching Cops. Police are over at a lady's (with infants) home whose kitchen is absolutely filthy. Garbage about a foot high on the counter and kitchen floor. Her excuse:
It just got so dirty I don't want to go in there.

296 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:53pm

re: #272 brookly red

/talk about dating yourself...

In bed.

/what? He mentioned Linda Lovelace.

297 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:53pm

re: #281 prairiefire

Om my goodness, my dad and the betamax! Thank goodness he broke that bad habit!

You were spying on him? Bad bad bad.

298 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:50:55pm

re: #277 MandyManners

I guess that was pretty intuitive. Oh well. Ask him how he'll get his presents now.

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:04pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist

Apropos of nothing, except the conjunction, a blogfriend in Israel informs me that the little kids in his West Bank neighborhood refer to the mysterious old man in the red and white suit who shows up on Sukkot decoration packages as "Savta Sukkot".

Excuse me. Saba Sukkot. The other does not make much sense.

300 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:20pm

re: #293 Alouette

Science! It robs our children of their purity and innocence!

Meant to include a </sarc> tag in there.

301 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:21pm

{Mandy} Sorry Mandy, that sucks.

302 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:24pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Historic similarities and yet epic differences-Reagan certainly came in with a vast public mandate Obama did and does not enjoy. Reagan's solutions were to cut taxes, move certain Federal authorities and responsibilities back to the states, and reduce regulatory obstacles for business. His approach on foreign policy famously was to be kind to our friends and hard on our opponents. All of these are in opposition to Obamas methods.

303 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:33pm

re: #266 albusteve


It's either thievery from those that can afford it - or a national debt that will become increasingly harder to shift the longer people say "it's horrible, and something has to be done... but for god's sake not that"...


I have no problems with paying either Inheritence or Capital Gains taxes. Work it so that they don't hit those that can't afford it - but apart from that it's fair game.

304 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:41pm

re: #278 Racer X

No, no, no, and fuck no.

I'm paying over 36% of what I earn now to the feds. California has a 10% state tax now. Fuck that.

The government gets plenty of money to accomplish what is needed. They waste too damn much. They are inefficient. They do not hold people accountable for their actions or performance.

Quite Concur. We can start with a pay cut of government workers in non-law enforcement administrative positions, and then a full audit of state contracts. You could save tens of millions right there.

305 Kragar  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:43pm

re: #250 Racer X


/I thought Waterworld was good!

You are dead to me.

306 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:50pm

re: #282 palomino

ACORN has become to the right what Halliburton was to the left. It's a rallying cry, more than a cogent argument, meant to represent everything evil and corrupt about the administration.

Facts and the exculpatory details of specific cases don't really matter much once you've bought into the basic premise that ACORN/Halliburton are trying to undermine everything you believe in.

bullshit...they cannot account for themselves, disbanding them is good for everybody...it's not the center of the universe, that's hysteria

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:52pm

re: #282 palomino

ACORN has become to the right what Halliburton was to the left. It's a rallying cry, more than a cogent argument, meant to represent everything evil and corrupt about the administration.

Facts and the exculpatory details of specific cases don't really matter much once you've bought into the basic premise that ACORN/Halliburton are trying to undermine everything you believe in.

I think you have nailed it.

Is there any chance that ACORN and Halliburton are collaborating on something, so that we can be unified by our hate?

308 Ascher  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:54pm

re: #275 avanti

ACORN has some problems, but they do a lot of good at the community level. The problem is with political bias, they work largely with the poor and minorities and they are by and large Democrats. No question that they help the left more than the right.

There are individuals who did and do a lot of good in the community. They were then hijacked by unprincipled ideologues = ACORN.

309 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:51:57pm

re: #260 imp_62

That's a shame. Ultimately the end of innocence hurts the parent more than the child.

Maybe. Maybe not.

But, I'm holding back tears.

But, hey!!! I'll save about $300.00 I had budgeted for the "Santa" to drop in on the 23rd.

310 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:52:05pm

re: #287 cliffster

The quote was hijacked by LGF hamsters' hatred of greater-than and less-than signs. But whatever. People vote for politicians who promise them free shit. Those politicians get in office and enact programs that make their buddies rich, under the auspice of giving people free shit. Don't worry, the rich can pay for all of it.

No need to lecture me.

311 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:52:11pm

re: #278 Racer X

The government gets plenty of money to accomplish what is needed. They waste too damn much. They are inefficient. They do not hold people accountable for their actions or performance.

Nor do they hold themselves accountable. Nor do the voters hold them accountable. It's a real shrugging of responsibility all the way down.

312 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:52:12pm

re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist

Excuse me. Saba Sukkot. The other does not make much sense.

Everybody knows that Saba and Savta are the real Santa.

313 darthstar  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:52:16pm

Some guy got arrested in Minnesota today for throwing tomatoes at Sarah Palin at her book signing...and missing. Okay, he hit a cop, so it's assault on a police officer (until Sarah leaves town, after which it should be keys to the city time).

Okay, okay, it was wrong of him to throw tomatoes...they're totally out of season...especially in Minnesota. But a butternut would probably get him 10-15 years.

314 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:52:20pm

re: #289 kellygrrrl

My state of MO, actually. Former Speaker of the Mo house. Left because of term limits.

315 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:52:24pm

re: #294 marjoriemoon

I think you pegged that quite nicely.

Summer rocks.

316 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:53:30pm

re: #296 Racer X

In bed.

/what? He mentioned Linda Lovelace.

[Dark_Falcon SMACKS Racer X, but only succeeds in hurting his own hand become Racer X got his racing helmet on in time.]

317 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:53:48pm

re: #286 albusteve

they are corrupt and should be shut down...why not?...their role in the community will be filled

Sure, and that group is likely to be staffed and ran just about like ACORN is. It'll be a name change, and little more.

318 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:53:53pm

re: #303 wozzablog

It's either thievery from those that can afford it - or a national debt that will become increasingly harder to shift the longer people say "it's horrible, and something has to be done... but for god's sake not that"...

I have no problems with paying either Inheritence or Capital Gains taxes. Work it so that they don't hit those that can't afford it - but apart from that it's fair game.

wow...you may as well be an alien to me...we have no common ground on taxation

319 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:53:59pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, to all the Catholic lizards, a reminder: tomorrow is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, and a holy day of obligation. Please report to Mass tomorrow. I am not obligated, but will be attending anyway, accompanied by five hundred fifty teenagers.

Hah!
I need to hire you as my conscience!
And my calendar, too.

320 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:53:59pm

re: #310 Naso Tang

No need to lecture me.

Apologies, I was simply reiterating my point which was obviously ruined by lack of preview. It just happened to be re: Naso.

321 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:54:32pm

re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh...ACORN is collaborating with Halliburton to incarcerate those of its members that try to clean up the organization in Gitmo?

/ O:

322 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:54:32pm

re: #309 MandyManners

Maybe. Maybe not.

But, I'm holding back tears.

But, hey!!! I'll save about $300.00 I had budgeted for the "Santa" to drop in on the 23rd.

He's growing up!
Smart kid you got there!
{{MM}}

323 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:54:56pm

re: #297 Naso Tang

Oh nooo. Just being intuitive, myself. Growing up if any kids wanted to look at porn, they just came on over! Way to much info for an 11 year old, IMHO. the 70's were wild, mannn.

324 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:55:08pm

re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you have nailed it.

Is there any chance that ACORN and Halliburton are collaborating on something, so that we can be unified by our hate?

Nope those two organizations couldn't work together like that. Haliburton is wealth creating organization, ACORN is a wealth eating organization.

325 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:55:22pm

re: #272 brookly red

/talk about dating yourself...

For what it's worth, I had to Google "Deep Throat" to get the name.

326 Ascher  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:55:36pm

re: #305 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

/I thought Waterworld was good!

You are dead to me.

The greatest part of Waterworld is that the fates and airline entertainment folks conspired to have it screened on 4 consecutive long international flights. It had the calming effect of making me not care whether I died in a fiery crash, or made it to Buenos Aires/Mexico City/L.A./N.Y.

327 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:56:06pm

re: #318 albusteve

wow...you may as well be an alien to me...we have no common ground on taxation

He is alien to America, Steve: He's from England.

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:56:07pm

re: #309 MandyManners

Maybe. Maybe not.

But, I'm holding back tears.

But, hey!!! I'll save about $300.00 I had budgeted for the "Santa" to drop in on the 23rd.

1. That's a plus. I would use some of it to soothe your own rattled nerves.

2. Santas make house calls?

How old is The Kid, BTW? I have never quite figured that out.

329 Ascher  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:56:39pm

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

1. That's a plus. I would use some of it to soothe your own rattled nerves.

2. Santas make house calls?

How old is The Kid, BTW? I have never quite figured that out.

28.

330 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:56:40pm

re: #247 MandyManners

Oh no. How did this come about?

331 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:56:45pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

Nope those two organizations couldn't work together like that. Haliburton is wealth creating organization, ACORN is a wealth eating organization.

wealth distributing organization, get with the program.

332 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:57:04pm

re: #313 darthstar

Some guy got arrested in Minnesota today for throwing tomatoes at Sarah Palin at her book signing...and missing. Okay, he hit a cop, so it's assault on a police officer (until Sarah leaves town, after which it should be keys to the city time).

Okay, okay, it was wrong of him to throw tomatoes...they're totally out of season...especially in Minnesota. But a butternut would probably get him 10-15 years.

SMACK!

333 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:57:14pm

I post 6 examples of utterly ridiculous government wasteful spending and people jump on the one about ACORN being bullshit. Got it. I retract that one post. This is not a left or right issue. The freaking government spending is out of control.

And fuck no, more taxes is not the answer.

334 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:57:25pm

re: #313 darthstar

Some guy got arrested in Minnesota today for throwing tomatoes at Sarah Palin at her book signing...and missing. Okay, he hit a cop, so it's assault on a police officer (until Sarah leaves town, after which it should be keys to the city time).

Okay, okay, it was wrong of him to throw tomatoes...they're totally out of season...especially in Minnesota. But a butternut would probably get him 10-15 years.

How--classically eighteenth century of him.

335 Mich-again  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:57:43pm
And if history’s any guide, such movements tend to flame out.

Chuh.

336 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:57:50pm

re: #323 prairiefire

Oh nooo. Just being intuitive, myself. Growing up if any kids wanted to look at porn, they just came on over! Way to much info for an 11 year old, IMHO. the 70's were wild, mannn.

I'm 64. Only thing is, it wasn't wild at the time; just cool. NOW it's wild.

337 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:57:58pm

re: #326 imp_62

The greatest part of Waterworld is that the fates and airline entertainment folks conspired to have it screened on 4 consecutive long international flights. It had the calming effect of making me not care whether I died in a fiery crash, or made it to Buenos Aires/Mexico City/L.A./N.Y.

I watched "Angels and Demons" about 3 times on my last international flight. I hope they do not make a movie of the newest Dan Brown novel.

Oh wait, they already did. Nic Cage in "National Treasure."

338 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:58:12pm

re: #331 brookly red

wealth distributing organization, get with the program.

The day I get with ACORN's program will be the first Wednesday that comes at the end of the week.

339 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:58:24pm

re: #313 darthstar

Some guy got arrested in Minnesota today for throwing tomatoes at Sarah Palin at her book signing...and missing. Okay, he hit a cop, so it's assault on a police officer (until Sarah leaves town, after which it should be keys to the city time).

Okay, okay, it was wrong of him to throw tomatoes...they're totally out of season...especially in Minnesota. But a butternut would probably get him 10-15 years.

hehe I made a pledge to show up at my voting booth in 2004 with a bucket of tomatoes in case Michael Moore showed up. He never did, but come to think of it, a bucket of mangos would have been more interesting.

Eh, it would have been a waste of good fruit anyway.

340 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:58:26pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

Nope those two organizations couldn't work together like that. Haliburton is wealth creating organization, ACORN is a wealth eating organization.

this argument is closed...people accept the swamp Pelosi was going to drain...you wanna know what is fundamentally wrong with this country just read this thread...I'm repulsed...people actually supporting an inheritance tax...un fucking believable

341 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:58:33pm

re: #313 darthstar

Minnesota.

Somehow, this doesn't surprise me one bit. ):

342 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:58:57pm

re: #273 Summer

ACORN is such a non-issue. If you listen to the right, you'd think they were some sort of super secret controlling evil dudes in a volcano HQ someplace like SPECTRE.

It's completely ludicrous.

Fine, I don't think they're necessarily and amazingly upright organization with a lot of their members, but honestly...

On the local level, they're probably staffed by tons of people who got a GED at best and want a self-respecting job that can help the community, and themselves, to improve their lot in life. It's probably also staffed at the top local levels by lots of underpaid and overeducated idealists who just came from the ivory tower into the ghetto and can't feel anything but shock and horror at the brutality of life that they see and can only respond from the gut on a naive basis.

That's something to be feared? The right is off the hinges on this one in such a huge way.

Just had to put in my two cents about anything to do with ACORN.

What about the TOP level of ACORN?

Two prominent national nonprofit groups are reeling from public disclosures that large sums of money were misappropriated in unrelated incidents by an employee and a former employee.

The groups, Acorn, one of the country’s largest community organizing groups, and the Points of Light Institute, which works to encourage civic activism and volunteering, have dealt with the problems in very different ways.

Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. After Points of Light noticed financial irregularities in early June, it took less than a month for management to alert federal prosecutors, although group officials say they have no clear idea yet what the financial impact may be.

A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke.

The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and not to alert law enforcement.

Dale Rathke remained on Acorn’s payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him.

SNIP

343 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:59:05pm

re: #333 Racer X

I post 6 examples of utterly ridiculous government wasteful spending and people jump on the one about ACORN being bullshit. Got it. I retract that one post. This is not a left or right issue. The freaking government spending is out of control.

And fuck no, more taxes is not the answer.

Quite Concur!

344 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:59:10pm

re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you have nailed it.

Is there any chance that ACORN and Halliburton are collaborating on something, so that we can be unified by our hate?

Nope, ACORN's fraud is chump change to a defense contractor like Halliburton. They can steal more on mess hall food overcharges than ACORN gets in 10 years.Both sides have pretty good villains to rant over, but one is ran by rich white guys, the other by minorities.

345 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:59:22pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

He is alien to America, Steve: He's from England.

got that...thanks DF

346 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:59:31pm

Hey reine.de.tout

Congratulations on the hat tip !

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:59:33pm

re: #339 marjoriemoon

hehe I made a pledge to show up at my voting booth in 2004 with a bucket of tomatoes in case Michael Moore showed up. He never did, but come to think of it, a bucket of mangos would have been more interesting.

Eh, it would have been a waste of good fruit anyway.

Why did you expect Michael Moore to be at your voting booth?

348 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:59:36pm

re: #337 Alouette

I watched "Angels and Demons" about 3 times on my last international flight. I hope they do not make a movie of the newest Dan Brown novel.

Oh wait, they already did. Nic Cage in "National Treasure."

Imagine Gargamel as a scarfaced angry war vet and Sharmuta as a guy.

That pretty much sums up the plot of "Avatar."

349 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:59:40pm

re: #334 SanFranciscoZionist

How--classically eighteenth century of him.

Yep, throwing shoes is much more stylish these days.
/

Seriously, this kind of harrassment of a public figure should never be tolerated. Love her or loathe her, Palin has the right to be in public without fear of being assaulted.

350 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 7:59:49pm

re: #338 Dark_Falcon

The day I get with ACORN's program will be the first Wednesday that comes at the end of the week.

You better hope a new calendar isn't introduced soon because I wouldn't take the 14.28% chances.

351 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:00:05pm

re: #275 avanti

ACORN has some problems, but they do a lot of good at the community level. The problem is with political bias, they work largely with the poor and minorities and they are by and large Democrats. No question that they help the left more than the right.

I don't care what the political persuasion is of anybody in need who is helped by any organization.

What I don't understand is what, exactly, does ACORN do that does so much good?

352 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:00:16pm

re: #346 Ojoe

Hey reine.de.tout

Congratulations on the hat tip !

Merci!

353 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:00:36pm

re: #333 Racer X

I post 6 examples of utterly ridiculous government wasteful spending and people jump on the one about ACORN being bullshit. Got it. I retract that one post. This is not a left or right issue. The freaking government spending is out of control.

And fuck no, more taxes is not the answer.

people here are fucking lunatics...amazing

354 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:00:41pm

re: #348 laZardo

Imagine Gargamel as a scarfaced angry war vet and Sharmuta as a guy.

That pretty much sums up the plot of "Avatar."

Yeah, I watched that South Park episode of "Dances With Smurfs"

355 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:00:42pm

re: #348 laZardo

Imagine Gargamel as a scarfaced angry war vet and Sharmuta as a guy.

That pretty much sums up the plot of "Avatar."

If I was a guy, I'd probably talk less.

356 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:00:45pm

re: #246 wozzablog

Once upon a time there was a surplus... and then came a president who never saw a spending bill he didn't like or a tax cut he couldn't say no too... then we got a deficit... and an economic slump that required spedning to sort out... people don't want to increase Government revenues... and we keep going...

The economy will rebound - stimulus won't have been entirely wasted, TARP will be repaid at a profit (eventually)... but tax rates will have to go back to where they were when Bush took over, and local taxes will have to go back up too.

Before Stimulus the states had to make swinging cuts on services - thats why Crist supported it - to keep teachers on payroll and prevent the curtting of vital services. Those conditions were created by tax cuts and decreased revenues.

To balance a budget taxes have to go up - it's unfortunate, but thats what has to happen.

Let me show you how the outcomes of the "stimulus" are being abused and misused.

A year ago, I signed a contract with a theatre in Ohio to license for a production of my stage adaptation of "1984." This was locked in a year ago, signed, sealed and royalty check delivered to me many many months ago.

The production went up this past Nov. 2009. Yesterday, in the mail, I received a package, with a DVD of one of the performances, a copy of the program and copies of other public relation material. It is customary to send the playwright this kind of supporting material after a production.

In the program, under the heading of grants and funding, part of the funding of this production was credited to "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act." Also, in one of the local newspaper articles about the show, the reporter was "tooting" the effect of the stimulus "saving" jobs at this theatre.

Well, maybe in some way the stimulus has helped this theatre, but the bottom line is that this show was paid and planned for way before they knew they were getting any money from "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act." Yet this production suddenly fell under the "wings" of Obama and his job "angels."

Is my little story anecdotal? Yes, it is, but it is also a reflection of how the country is being sold a load of bullshit. I have seen many already planned projects being tagged as "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" even though the project was never part of the overall planning of the Obama administration.

And one wonders why they can't really tell you how many "jobs" have bee "created/saved or made up out of whole cloth" across the country. It's because this is all smoke and mirrors, it's payoffs to existing public programs, in short, more big government.

357 palomino  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:01:09pm

re: #306 albusteve

bullshit...they cannot account for themselves, disbanding them is good for everybody...it's not the center of the universe, that's hysteria

Uhh, I'm talking about the symbolism of each organization within the representational sphere of its partisan opposition. Ds used Halliburton as an empty slogan to discredit Rs, and Rs do the same with ACORN.

Didn't say anything about disbanding them or their position in this universe, or any other.

Maybe the "bullshit" is overreacting to a post without even clarifying your objection.

358 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:01:55pm

re: #351 reine.de.tout

I don't care what the political persuasion is of anybody in need who is helped by any organization.

What I don't understand is what, exactly, does ACORN do that does so much good?

I don't have much information about ACORN that wasn't thrown directly at my head. First time I heard of them was when Zombie bounced up before the election, accusing them of having caused the housing bubble, or caused the housing bubble to fail, or something. Shortly after that, it started to be ACORN all the time.

359 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:02:06pm

re: #338 Dark_Falcon

The day I get with ACORN's program will be the first Wednesday that comes at the end of the week.

I live a few blocks from an ACORN office, we locals all know the deal. Some people are just in uhhh, denial. (Oh how I hate that word).

360 darthstar  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:02:44pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

SMACK!

I'm just looking forward to seeing pictures of her next book signing that say "No guns, no knives, no perishables allowed."

361 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:02:55pm

re: #354 Alouette

Is it available for free-viewing yet?

362 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:02:59pm

re: #344 avanti

Nope, ACORN's fraud is chump change to a defense contractor like Halliburton. They can steal more on mess hall food overcharges than ACORN gets in 10 years.Both sides have pretty good villains to rant over, but one is ran by rich white guys, the other by minorities.

It all boils down to race I guess.

363 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:03:01pm

re: #291 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sorry, the little-boy years are over.

Congratulations. Your son is smart.

Oh, yes. This is weighing heavily on me. The other day, he told me to never address him as "babe".

WHO STOLE MY BABY???

*whimper*

364 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:03:22pm

re: #355 Sharmuta

If I was a guy, I'd probably talk less.

And fart more.

365 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:03:29pm

re: #344 avanti

Nope, ACORN's fraud is chump change to a defense contractor like Halliburton. They can steal more on mess hall food overcharges than ACORN gets in 10 years.Both sides have pretty good villains to rant over, but one is ran by rich white guys, the other by minorities.

fine, let's investigate them both shall we?

366 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:03:36pm

re: #247 MandyManners

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

Mandy - gosh, I hate to be the one to break this to ya.
But the older he gets, the more full of shit you're gonna be.
'Til he's about college-age.

367 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:03:47pm

re: #354 Alouette

Yeah, I watched that South Park episode of "Dances With Smurfs"

Thankfully, it was a satire of Glen Beck. If it had been a satire of Kevin Costner movies it would have had to be an hour long.

/The Postman was about 2.5 hours of my life I'd wish I could have back.

368 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:04:14pm

re: #337 Alouette

I watched "Angels and Demons" about 3 times on my last international flight. I hope they do not make a movie of the newest Dan Brown novel.

Oh wait, they already did. Nic Cage in "National Treasure."

How long ago was that actually?

Last times I flew I had my own little screen and remote. Either you just couldn't get the clues or you were back in the cattle section where the purpose of movies is to keep the herd quiet and sleepy.

369 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:05:00pm

re: #351 reine.de.tout

I don't care what the political persuasion is of anybody in need who is helped by any organization.

What I don't understand is what, exactly, does ACORN do that does so much good?

nobody will support that meme...curious eh?...what does ACORN do that a privately funded org can't?...they don't want to hear it...I'm really disappointed with these people that continuously support a partisan outfit like ACORN, on the taxpayers dole...talk about a changing demographic here at LGF

370 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:05:08pm

re: #278 Racer X

Government couldn't afford the tax cuts it put out last time.

Obama is trying to get rid of waste across all the departments - but that will not be enough.

Hey, i'm sorry you pay taxes - but the budget, the deficit and essential services won't attend to themselves.

It is easy to shout "cut, cut, cut"...

Without stimulus Florida would have had to cut teachers an millions from essential services - states are making those choices all the time. The first on the scene press conference Obama did for stimulus was at a police academy that had guaranteed places for officers in the full time force - those were jobs saved.

Stimulus is plugging holes in states budgets - holes created by drops in revenue coming from the Fed's downwards and from reduced local incomes as the recession bit.

Some deficit spending is good - but the present level is unsustainable and has been for some time, cuts in state spending hurt real people and cuts in Federal spending have been directed at states. Where we begin the cycle again.

Cuts have to be made where they don't affect public services or the frontline military. Those are not easy to weed out and stop. If they were surely the last congress would have done it...

Tax policy will be essential in getting out of the mess - and tax cuts should be off the agenda except for the lowest earners and those highest taxed as a percentage of over all income.

First is getting the economy back into decent growth, second is paying off the debt, third is balancing the budget and fourth is generating surplus.

371 solomonpanting  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:05:24pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

I have seen many already planned projects being tagged as "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" even though the project was never part of the overall planning of the Obama administration.

The One works in mysterious ways.

372 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:05:27pm

re: #366 reine.de.tout

Mandy - gosh, I hate to be the one to break this to ya.
But the older he gets, the more full of shit you're gonna be.
'Til he's about college-age.

Heh. So true. I look back at how angry and self righteous I was towards my father in my teen and early twenties, and cringe. I had no idea of how sheltered my life was, and how hard he was working to make sure of that for me.

373 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:05:55pm

re: #351 reine.de.tout

I don't care what the political persuasion is of anybody in need who is helped by any organization.

What I don't understand is what, exactly, does ACORN do that does so much good?

They are active at the local level helping minorities with housing, legal, education and other issues. The voter registration is a small part of it.

374 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:05:58pm

re: #359 brookly red

I live a few blocks from an ACORN office, we locals all know the deal. Some people are just in uhhh, denial. (Oh how I hate that word).

There's an ACORN office in Cairo?

375 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:06:32pm

re: #357 palomino

Uhh, I'm talking about the symbolism of each organization within the representational sphere of its partisan opposition. Ds used Halliburton as an empty slogan to discredit Rs, and Rs do the same with ACORN.

Didn't say anything about disbanding them or their position in this universe, or any other.

Maybe the "bullshit" is overreacting to a post without even clarifying your objection.

symbolism...right...how about dealing with reality?

376 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:06:46pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

Let me show you how the outcomes of the "stimulus" are being abused and misused.

A year ago, I signed a contract with a theatre in Ohio to license for a production of my stage adaptation of "1984." This was locked in a year ago, signed, sealed and royalty check delivered to me many many months ago.

The production went up this past Nov. 2009. Yesterday, in the mail, I received a package, with a DVD of one of the performances, a copy of the program and copies of other public relation material. It is customary to send the playwright this kind of supporting material after a production.

In the program, under the heading of grants and funding, part of the funding of this production was credited to "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act." Also, in one of the local newspaper articles about the show, the reporter was "tooting" the effect of the stimulus "saving" jobs at this theatre.

Well, maybe in some way the stimulus has helped this theatre, but the bottom line is that this show was paid and planned for way before they knew they were getting any money from "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act." Yet this production suddenly fell under the "wings" of Obama and his job "angels."

Is my little story anecdotal? Yes, it is, but it is also a reflection of how the country is being sold a load of bullshit. I have seen many already planned projects being tagged as "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" even though the project was never part of the overall planning of the Obama administration.

And one wonders why they can't really tell you how many "jobs" have bee "created/saved or made up out of whole cloth" across the country. It's because this is all smoke and mirrors, it's payoffs to existing public programs, in short, more big government.

Big Brother Is Watching You.

377 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:07:22pm

re: #362 Racer X

It all boils down to race I guess.

Partly, but only because minorities are largely Democrats and that's who ACORN serves.

378 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:07:31pm

re: #373 avanti

They are active at the local level helping minorities with housing, legal, education and other issues. The voter registration is a small part of it.

do you personally have any knowlage of, or dealings with them?

379 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:07:35pm

I was getting an ocular migraine earlier, and I'm really glad it went away because this has been a great thread, imo.

380 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:07:42pm
381 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:08:00pm

re: #362 Racer X

It all boils down to race I guess.

sure...defy ACORN and you're a racist...pretty typical around here these days

382 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:08:04pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

Why did you expect Michael Moore to be at your voting booth?

He took up the mantle about the inadequacies on the new electronic voting machines, which is actually a worthy fight. I'm trying to get my years straight. I believe in 2004 was the first year we (Florida) would be using those e-machines except Gov Jeb wouldn't allow any paper trail output so if there was a problem collecting the data, there'd be no way to count the votes. There were other issues, too, about intimidating voters at the polls. It was quite a mess. Anyway Moore said he was coming here to make sure everything was ok and I'm sure to bring his camera for the next blockbuster movie (but it never happened).

He attaches himself to worthy causes, but I don't recall anything every changing because of him. Moore is out for Moore heh

383 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:08:19pm

re: #373 avanti

They helped my single mom friend get the loan for her first home. That's all I got.

384 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:08:25pm

re: #376 Dark_Falcon

Big Brother Is Watching You.

I didn't notice the irony when I composed that last paragraph.

385 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:08:38pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

I don't mean to be mean in any way, or that I would have done differently; but was there not a decision to accept this money, as well as one to give it?

386 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:09:03pm

re: #377 avanti

Partly, but only because minorities are largely Democrats and that's who ACORN serves.

The answer the GOP should turn to is to support organizations that will provide better economic development in such neighborhoods, and thus render ACORN obsolete.

387 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:09:08pm

re: #247 MandyManners

What a night. What a night. What an awful, awful night.

The Kid announced that Santa does not exist, that I'm full of shit.

Thats why I don't believe in telling kids about Santa, but that's just me.

Sorry, {Mandy}.

388 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:09:11pm

re: #370 wozzablog

First is getting the economy back into decent growth, second is paying off the debt, third is balancing the budget and fourth is generating surplus.


I live in Kalifornia. These knuckleheads could not possible screw up our economy any worse than they already have. How? By doing just exactly what you said.

You wanna see what America will look like in a few years? Look at California.

389 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:09:20pm

re: #363 MandyManners

{{{Mandy}}}

390 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:09:26pm

re: #374 laZardo

There's an ACORN office in Cairo?


/no just some bank accounts...

391 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:09:48pm

re: #377 avanti

Partly, but only because minorities are largely Democrats and that's who ACORN serves.

Who takes care of the white poor people?

392 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:09:57pm

re: #378 brookly red

do you personally have any knowlage of, or dealings with them?

Not directly, I'm not in the neighborhoods they serve.

393 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:10:02pm

re: #384 Walter L. Newton

Would it have been more ironic if it were a production of "Animal Farm?"

/ q;

394 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:10:15pm

re: #381 albusteve

easy dude... just talking points.

395 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:10:17pm

re: #379 Sharmuta

I was getting an ocular migraine earlier, and I'm really glad it went away because this has been a great thread, imo.

Did we ever clear up whether smurfs have genitals?

396 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:10:17pm

re: #379 Sharmuta

I was getting an ocular migraine earlier, and I'm really glad it went away because this has been a great thread, imo.

Really makes for a lot of PIMFs when only half the line, not to mention the word, is visible, doesn't it?

397 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:11:02pm

re: #375 albusteve

symbolism...right...how about dealing with reality?

OK. Reality is that ACORN is an unimportant organization which has been pulling a couple million a year in federal funds, and has been caught fucking up in a variety of embarassing ways in the past year.

That's all she wrote.

398 rurality  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:11:04pm

re: #373 avanti

And for all the hooha about fraudulent voter registration, how many fraudulent votes were cast? Even when the DOJ under Bush had a mandate to sniff out voter fraud, to even gin up cases, there just werent any, no more than a handful across our the entire country.

399 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:11:07pm

re: #370 wozzablog

Government couldn't afford the tax cuts it put out last time.

Obama is trying to get rid of waste across all the departments - but that will not be enough.

Hey, i'm sorry you pay taxes - but the budget, the deficit and essential services won't attend to themselves.

It is easy to shout "cut, cut, cut"...

Without stimulus Florida would have had to cut teachers an millions from essential services - states are making those choices all the time. The first on the scene press conference Obama did for stimulus was at a police academy that had guaranteed places for officers in the full time force - those were jobs saved.

Stimulus is plugging holes in states budgets - holes created by drops in revenue coming from the Fed's downwards and from reduced local incomes as the recession bit.

Some deficit spending is good - but the present level is unsustainable and has been for some time, cuts in state spending hurt real people and cuts in Federal spending have been directed at states. Where we begin the cycle again.

Cuts have to be made where they don't affect public services or the frontline military. Those are not easy to weed out and stop. If they were surely the last congress would have done it...

Tax policy will be essential in getting out of the mess - and tax cuts should be off the agenda except for the lowest earners and those highest taxed as a percentage of over all income.

First is getting the economy back into decent growth, second is paying off the debt, third is balancing the budget and fourth is generating surplus.

sorry, this whole post is crackpot tripe

400 Bloodnok  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:11:52pm

re: #395 Spare O'Lake

Did we ever clear up whether smurfs have genitals?

I'm thinking back to Saturday morning cartoons and I am pretty sure they never told us.

401 solomonpanting  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:11:55pm

re: #374 laZardo

There's an ACORN office in Cairo?

From little acorns grow big pyramid schemes

BM

402 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:12:11pm

re: #386 Dark_Falcon

The answer the GOP should turn to is to support organizations that will provide better economic development in such neighborhoods, and thus render ACORN obsolete.

Excellent idea, but it's a base they have largely abandoned.

403 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:12:18pm

re: #387 Sharmuta

That's the road I went down. Now my little boy stares at me sternly and says he is real, daring me to disagree with him. I let it pass.

404 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:12:19pm

re: #388 Racer X

You wanna see what America will look like in a few years? Look at California.

Don't make me dream of...

405 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:12:19pm

re: #395 Spare O'Lake

Did we ever clear up whether smurfs have genitals?

You're getting pretty fresh there, Mister.

406 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:12:21pm

re: #395 Spare O'Lake

Did we ever clear up whether smurfs have genitals?

And just when I thought I was getting the hang of this place...WTF

407 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:12:55pm

re: #361 laZardo

Is it available for free-viewing yet?

It was online at southparkstudios.com for a time (there was even an LGF thread about it) but now they have pulled it until next week. I think they are preparing the uncensored version.

408 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:12:58pm

re: #388 Racer X

California had a surplus, but we just kept increasing the spending to spend up to the income. Nothing saved for if/when the economy went sour. Now, we can't cut anything. So, deeper into debt we go.

409 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:13:08pm

re: #384 Walter L. Newton

I didn't notice the irony when I composed that last paragraph.

I'd actually call that serendipity rather than irony. That your play was an adaptation of 1984 was a good reminder. How was their performance?

410 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:13:11pm

re: #388 Racer X

California is a basket case - there are no easy answers to it. Swinging across the board tax cuts will only lead to greater spending cuts on essential services though.

I don't see a way out for california unless it defaults on it's debt and gets a clean slate somehow.

No easy answers - or it would have been solved by now.

411 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:13:32pm

re: #405 Sharmuta

You're getting pretty fresh there, Mister.

Just tell him to smurf the smurf up. :)

412 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:13:55pm

re: #22 reine.de.tout

Congrats!!! You deserve it.

413 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:13:55pm

re: #385 Naso Tang

I don't mean to be mean in any way, or that I would have done differently; but was there not a decision to accept this money, as well as one to give it?

I'm not sure what you mean. Did you read what I wrote. This "deal" was made and closed a year ago, way before Obama was president. They contracted the rotalties with me a year ago, they budgeted for the production a year ago, stimulus money was not even part of the concept at the time.

414 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:14:09pm

re: #388 Racer X

I live in Kalifornia. These knuckleheads could not possible screw up our economy any worse than they already have. How? By doing just exactly what you said.

You wanna see what America will look like in a few years? Look at California.

You wanna see what California will look like in a few years? Look at Michigan.

415 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:14:14pm

re: #391 Racer X

My friend is white and she still got the home loan.

416 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:14:14pm

re: #392 avanti

Not directly, I'm not in the neighborhoods they serve.

Huh? but you have such a vast knowledge of their activities?

417 jaunte  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:14:18pm

Any tax experts out there that can explain this estate tax vote?

House Approves Permanent Estate Tax Fix, 225-200

The House voted 225-200 today to approve H.R. 4154, the Permanent Estate Tax Relief for Families, Farmers, and Small Businesses Act of 2009, which permanently extends the estate tax with a $3.5 million exemption ($7 million for married couples) and 45% top rate. The 225 votes in favor of the bill all came from Democrats; 26 Democrats voted with 174 Republicans in opposition to the bill. Under current law, the estate tax is scheduled to be repealed for one year on Jan. 1, 2010, before returning on Jan. 1, 2011 with a $1 million exemption ($2 million for married couples) and a 55% top rate.
[Link: taxprof.typepad.com...]

It seems like the R's would want to give people a chance to keep more of their parents money, but the D's are extending the $3.5 million exemption. What gives?

418 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:14:29pm

re: #406 Naso Tang

You should've seen the Ocean Thread a couple nights ago. :D Gay Transformers, Chinese pr0n hunters and a flouncing.

419 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:14:39pm

re: #379 Sharmuta

I was getting an ocular migraine earlier, and I'm really glad it went away because this has been a great thread, imo.

Oh squiggly line in my eye... lol

420 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:14:42pm

re: #410 wozzablog

California is a basket case - there are no easy answers to it. Swinging across the board tax cuts will only lead to greater spending cuts on essential services though.

I don't see a way out for california unless it defaults on it's debt and gets a clean slate somehow.

No easy answers - or it would have been solved by now.

Has any state ever defaulted?

421 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:14:45pm

re: #409 Dark_Falcon

I'd actually call that serendipity rather than irony. That your play was an adaptation of 1984 was a good reminder. How was their performance?

I don't know, the DVD they sent won't play on my computer or DVD player. I think the disk is bad, I've asked for a new copy.

422 palomino  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:15:03pm

re: #375 albusteve

The reality is that the teabaggers are a pathetically confused joke, and their obsession with ACORN won't get them anywhere.

423 Cato the Elder  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:15:10pm

I believe it was Alexander Hamilton who said, "The people is a great beast!"

[sic]

424 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:15:40pm

re: #373 avanti

They are active at the local level helping minorities with housing, legal, education and other issues. The voter registration is a small part of it.

All very worthy.
Here where I live, the parish (county) has a Housing Office for those in need.
There is a group of lawyers that provide a weekly legal "open-house" - legal advice free for those who need it, by some of the top lawyers in town.

I don't think my town is unique in what it does and how people and groups come together to help each other. How does ACORN fit in?

Louisiana's ACORN site says it provides these services:

Services
FREE Tax Filing at ACORN
ACORN in New Orleans provides FREE tax services to low- and moderate-income communities. To set an appointment call
[no phone numbers allowed] x 114
Lead Poisoning Prevention
Helping low-income families protect their children form lead poisoning. Call[no phone numbers allowed] x 155 to learn more about programs.
Voting Rights
ACORN fights to protect the voting rights of Louisiana residents in future elections. To join the fight for voting rights call[no phone numbers allowed] x 116

And I understand they will be getting out of the tax service business.

425 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:15:42pm

re: #399 albusteve

I'm glad it warranted your considered opinion.

Do this math -

Tax Cuts while in Surplus with no plan to cut spending = ?

426 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:15:44pm

re: #410 wozzablog

It's called cut the spending.
Really, it's NOT that hard.

427 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:16:13pm

re: #416 brookly red

Huh? but you have such a vast knowledge of their activities?

My knowledge is far from vast, where did you get that impression ? I know their basic mission, but not much more.

428 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:16:22pm

re: #398 rurality

And for all the hooha about fraudulent voter registration, how many fraudulent votes were cast? Even when the DOJ under Bush had a mandate to sniff out voter fraud, to even gin up cases, there just werent any, no more than a handful across our the entire country.

The left gets worked up about voter suppression, the right about false registration. I think it's one of those areas where trust has so totally broken down that neither side will ever agree.

PS: I never understood the fact that election officials in the US are themselves either elected or politically appointed, and hence have a political affiliation. It just makes the suspicions run so much deeper.

429 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:17:00pm

re: #418 laZardo

You should've seen the Ocean Thread a couple nights ago. :D Gay Transformers, Chinese pr0n hunters and a flouncing.

I like fishing. Catching a flouncing live is just like a hit on the first cast; except of course I don't do the live release.

430 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:17:03pm

re: #410 wozzablog

California is a basket case - there are no easy answers to it. Swinging across the board tax cuts will only lead to greater spending cuts on essential services though.

I don't see a way out for california unless it defaults on it's debt and gets a clean slate somehow.

No easy answers - or it would have been solved by now.

awarding ungodly union pensions to state workers was the straw that broke the camels back... billions in unfunded mandates...people are flocking out of CA by the thousands because of the tax situation, and it's all on the donks...all of it...they painted themselves into an impossible corner

431 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:17:09pm

re: #395 Spare O'Lake

Did we ever clear up whether smurfs have genitals?

/you never heard of blue balls? there are long lines and rationing due to the one layer system.

432 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:17:14pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

The conservative are convinced there will not be a recovery. The "can't spend your way pout of debt" theory precludes that. Of course the debt is a great risk and a great burden for the smaller economy to suffer. The best way out of a deficit is growth, but we lost a decade of mfg in this recession.

433 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:17:55pm

Those little old ladies and gentlemen that volunteer at the polling places are pretty damn tough. DO NOT cross them!

434 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:18:26pm

re: #426 Floral Giraffe

There are commisions across the current administration trying to do that -but that will succeede in cutting the deficit not in addressing the income shortfall.

When the economy is back on it's feet and stable the higher rates of tax will have to go up to achieve either a balancing of the budget or a return to surplus to pay the deficit down quicker.

435 brookly red  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:18:31pm

re: #398 rurality

And for all the hooha about fraudulent voter registration, how many fraudulent votes were cast? Even when the DOJ under Bush had a mandate to sniff out voter fraud, to even gin up cases, there just werent any, no more than a handful across our the entire country.

but each one is a felony :)

436 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:18:46pm

re: #422 palomino

The reality is that the teabaggers are a pathetically confused joke, and their obsession with ACORN won't get them anywhere.

I don't speak for teabaggers...that's some one else's obsession

437 Girth  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:18:49pm

re: #433 prairiefire

Those little old ladies and gentlemen that volunteer at the polling places are pretty damn tough. DO NOT cross them!

Damn skippy. My grandmother's one of them, and trust me, you do not want her mad at you!

438 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:19:02pm

re: #430 albusteve

Yes.

as i said - basketcase.

439 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:19:04pm

re: #429 Naso Tang

I've been off and on this thread, did you see my answer to you at
re: #413 Walter L. Newton

440 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:19:09pm

re: #433 prairiefire

Those little old ladies and gentlemen that volunteer at the polling places are pretty damn tough. DO NOT cross them!

The blue-haired women with the rhinestone flag brooches and little Keds? Yes. Do not mess with them. You will be toast.

441 Summer Seale  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:19:21pm

re: #342 MandyManners

Mandy,

I'd say that in an organization that big, one guy embezzling one...MILLION...dollars!!! is really a joke. =)

While it's unethical as hell, it doesn't exactly rise to anything like a national conspiracy to overthrow the government with Marxist ideology and replace it with a Stalinist state.

That's basically what some on the right are saying ACORN is for.

Sure, put the lawbreakers in jail. But fearing ACORN every time a policy comes up from Obama? This is ludicrous. Let's be real. ACORN is the kind of organization that puts those leaflets in those display glass cases down at your Community Center. You know - the kind nobody ever bothers to read.

It's a joke. The only people who read those display papers tend to be...other community organizers.

I don't know about you, but I've heard local ACORN people talking on the news. They didn't exactly strike me as the kind of polished criminal mind that can somehow undermine the entire government. In some cases, they even got their tenses wrong.

I'm all for prosecuting criminals at the top. ACORN is obviously stupidly managed or even corrupt. But one million dollars? I mean, any local-sized business makes that sort of yearly income. And for them, that's at the National level?

They're a joke. Just relax. =)

442 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:20:05pm

re: #435 brookly red

Fraudulent registration is as smoke to fire. Given the lax enforcement I am surprised at any charges ever brought on this. Arguably the least enforced felony of all. Double voting.

443 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:20:38pm

re: #425 wozzablog

I'm glad it warranted your considered opinion.

Do this math -

Tax Cuts while in Surplus with no plan to cut spending = ?

tax cuts generate business and growth...taxes through production...get real

444 Bagua  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:20:54pm

re: #424 reine.de.tout

And I understand they will be getting out of the tax service business.

:)

445 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:22:06pm

re: #443 albusteve

Tax cuts for the upper brackets worked for Apple and Google.

/checking

446 borgcube  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:22:14pm

re: #410 wozzablog

California is a basket case - there are no easy answers to it. Swinging across the board tax cuts will only lead to greater spending cuts on essential services though.

I don't see a way out for california unless it defaults on it's debt and gets a clean slate somehow.

No easy answers - or it would have been solved by now.

Insolvency. Now. Only way.

447 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:22:24pm

re: #431 brookly red

/you never heard of blue balls? there are long lines and rationing due to the one layer system.

Say no more

448 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:22:24pm

re: #420 Naso Tang

I doubt it. But it's dire straights out there.

They need a credit rating though to stay functional and to maintain the credit rating they have to keep servicing the debt... the servicing of the debt prevents the solving of the intractable structural problems they face financially leaving almost no room for manouver.

449 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:23:06pm

re: #438 wozzablog

Yes.

as i said - basketcase.

liberalism killed California...same with MI, Jersy, Mass...deny it all you want

450 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:23:20pm

re: #446 borgcube

Insolvency. Now. Only way.

I say we secede.

//

451 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:24:20pm

re: #450 SanFranciscoZionist

I say we secede.

//

Is it really seccession when the rest of the Union says "good riddance"?

//

452 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:24:25pm

re: #441 Summer

Mandy,

Snip
I'm all for prosecuting criminals at the top. ACORN is obviously stupidly managed or even corrupt. But one million dollars? I mean, any local-sized business makes that sort of yearly income. And for them, that's at the National level?

They're a joke. Just relax. =)

Just for some prospective, Halliburton was fined 559 million for bribery.

link...

453 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:24:47pm

re: #449 albusteve

liberalism killed California...same with MI, Jersy, Mass...deny it all you want

Medinat California Chai!

454 Mich-again  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:25:06pm

re: #440 SanFranciscoZionist

The blue-haired women with the rhinestone flag brooches and little Keds? Yes. Do not mess with them. You will be toast.

Absolutely. And they're all hopped up on pastries and cake by the time I get there in the afternoon.

455 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:25:38pm

re: #451 Kruk

Is it really seccession when the rest of the Union says "good riddance"?

//

They'll miss us when they run out of broccoli.

456 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:25:55pm

re: #448 wozzablog

I doubt it. But it's dire straights out there.

They need a credit rating though to stay functional and to maintain the credit rating they have to keep servicing the debt... the servicing of the debt prevents the solving of the intractable structural problems they face financially leaving almost no room for manouver.

they ant to save money by cutting education spending out there...hahaha!, what a bunch of lunatics...fat cats getting rich on the average guy's dime...FAIL!

457 rurality  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:26:15pm

re: #428 Kruk

Maybe the right is nuts for paperwork--marriage certificates, birth certificates, many forms to fill for citizenship, I.D. to vote. Perhaps that's why they hated Motor Voter--the sad reduction in paper work. Suppression isnt what bugs me, I think it is more the inequality to access, that discourages voting. Poor areas seem to have crappy machines or two few crappy machines for the population they service.

458 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:26:37pm

re: #425 wozzablog

I'm glad it warranted your considered opinion.

Do this math -

Tax Cuts while in Surplus with no plan to cut spending = ?

I think I see where you are coming from. However, NOT increasing taxes is not the same as tax cuts.

No one is proposing tax cuts. I'm proposing we stop spending money on stuff we don't absolutely need.

459 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:27:21pm

re: #439 Walter L. Newton

I've been off and on this thread, did you see my answer to you at
re: #413 Walter L. Newton

Sorry, I hadn't done a find for a bit and missed it. My point was simply that you were indignant on one side while taking the money with the other, regardless of the timing.

Should I imagine that you were annoyed that they didn't write how the next production was the one that benefited?

I'm not looking for a fight here, but one way or another it seems the theater benefited even while your show was on.

460 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:27:47pm

re: #450 SanFranciscoZionist

All we have to do is succeed. California will be back.

461 rurality  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:27:48pm

re: #457 rurality

must learn to proof read. sorry.night.

462 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:28:25pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

They'll miss us when they run out of broccoli.

no, what an inspiration when mighty CA comes begging to the American public to save their ass...I could care less...take your lettuce and shove it up your ass...we don't need you, CA is poison...and please stay the hell out of NM

463 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:28:37pm

re: #457 rurality

Maybe the right is nuts for paperwork--marriage certificates, birth certificates, many forms to fill for citizenship, I.D. to vote. Perhaps that's why they hated Motor Voter--the sad reduction in paper work. Suppression isnt what bugs me, I think it is more the inequality to access, that discourages voting. Poor areas seem to have crappy machines or two few crappy machines for the population they service.

Yep, that inevitably decreases voter turnout in poorer areas. You have to stand in long lines on a working day and in November. Can't be easy.

464 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:28:43pm

re: #458 Racer X

I think I see where you are coming from. However, NOT increasing taxes is not the same as tax cuts.

No one is proposing tax cuts. I'm proposing we stop spending money on stuff we don't absolutely need.

Just like cutting taxes to a certain person is not the same as giving that person money.

465 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:29:15pm

re: #451 Kruk

Is it really seccession when the rest of the Union says "good riddance"?

//

You do NOT want to know what we are going to charge you for your lettuce & strawberries & citrus crops next year...

///

466 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:29:17pm

re: #443 albusteve

it's too late my side of the atlantic to argue Voodoo economics.

However

Bush did the tax cut thing and ended up with a big fucking deficit.

If tax cuts increased revenues over the longer term - and they are a lagging indicator - you end up with what happened to Regan and Bush 2, the economic cycle kicks you in the testes and any prospective growth you were looking at gets shot down in flames in a shitstorm of a reccession and fiscal meltdown. Recessions happen more regularly than people like to think - they can not be escaped.

At which point you gave to start all over again with a minimal tax base, employers who have laid people off anyway and rising federal debt to cover the extra defict caused by the tax burden being in thewrong place to start with.

467 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:29:39pm

re: #398 rurality

And for all the hooha about fraudulent voter registration, how many fraudulent votes were cast? Even when the DOJ under Bush had a mandate to sniff out voter fraud, to even gin up cases, there just werent any, no more than a handful across our the entire country.

Found these comments from Dana Perino White House Press Secretary. 2008:

Q Okay. And the former Lieutenant Governor of Maryland, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, has contended in a news release that mounting evidence of ACORN activists involved in registering ineligible persons to vote is not a real problem, but it's "Republicans skulking around in a desperate effort to steal the election." And my question, what does the head of the said Republican Party have to say about this?

MS. PERINO: I think I would just say that the integrity of the vote is so important to our democracy, and I'll let everybody else fight that out in 2008.

---

[Link: search.archives.gov...]

Q Dana, after the 2001 -- well, 2000 election, in 2001 President Bush was working on issues of voting problems and the issues of hanging chads, dimpled chads, what have you. Now there's a concern in this country about early voting -- some problems at the polls -- and also these voter forms -- registering to vote with ACORN. Has the Justice Department and the President been talking about this? And what does the White House have to say to those who are going to the polls? There is already concern about problems. And many people are doing this early, and for November 4th, long lines are expected.

MS. PERINO: The Justice Department works with states -- remember, elections are run by states -- and so if there are problems the Justice Department can investigate, but they don't announce those in advance and the President doesn't get involved in those. So I don't know if they have. What I can tell you is that the President wants to make sure that everyone in America has a chance to vote, that they take the opportunity to vote, and that it be a process that is infused with integrity. And so that's what he's focused on.

---

Q Dana, yes, thank you. Two questions. House Minority Leader John Boehner said, "The latest allegations of voter registration fraud by ACORN are further evidence that this group cannot be trusted with another dollar of taxpayers' money." And my question: Does the President agree or disagree with Mr. Boehner?

MS. PERINO: I don't know anything -- I don't have specific information about that group. But what I can tell you is that the integrity of the vote is essential to our democracy. And the Justice Department investigates where needed, but they don't comment on those investigations, and I can't either.

468 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:29:50pm

re: #462 albusteve

Better California than Goldman Sachs.

469 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:29:55pm

re: #460 Rightwingconspirator

All we have to do is succeed. California will be back.

I admire your spirit, but that comeback won't be for a long time. Wozzablog is sadly right on this point: For now, Cali won't have options because its debts are too high. Until it pays its debts down, things won't get much better.

470 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:30:05pm

re: #462 albusteve

no, what an inspiration when mighty CA comes begging to the American public to save their ass...I could care less...take your lettuce and shove it up your ass...we don't need you, CA is poison...and please stay the hell out of NM

GAZE.

471 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:30:37pm

re: #405 Sharmuta

You're getting pretty fresh there, Mister.

Sorry, but I can assure you that my intentions were entirely honourable. I don't know what came over me, and it will never happen again. Ever.

BTW is that smooth, unlumpy, blue stuff smurf skin or is it spandex?

472 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:31:03pm
473 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:31:10pm

re: #462 albusteve

Steve, that was uncalled for and mean. Downding.

474 laZardo  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:31:18pm

re: #460 Rightwingconspirator

All we have to do is succeed. California will be back.

Okay, who didn't hear that in the Governator's voice?

475 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:31:29pm

re: #470 SanFranciscoZionist

GAZE.

thanks

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:31:38pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Poll: 52% of Republicans think that ACORN stole the election for Barack Obama.

52%

ACORN stole teh elecshun!

Didn't Hoffman try to blame losing New York 23 on them?

477 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:31:52pm

re: #459 Naso Tang

Sorry, I hadn't done a find for a bit and missed it. My point was simply that you were indignant on one side while taking the money with the other, regardless of the timing.

Should I imagine that you were annoyed that they didn't write how the next production was the one that benefited?

I'm not looking for a fight here, but one way or another it seems the theater benefited even while your show was on.

I took the money a year ago, with out ANY CONNECTION to stimulus funds. Does that make sense to you.

The implication, a whole year later, that the stimulus funding had anything to do with supporting this particular production was stretching the truth.

Evidently that doesn't bother you. It bothers me. Yes I took the money, a whole year ago, money that had no connection to the stimulus.

478 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:32:00pm

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist

Didn't Hoffman try to blame losing New York 23 on them?

Yes. And that failed too.

479 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:32:01pm

re: #469 Dark_Falcon

Sadly true. 'Tis a harsh crucible. Slow may be for the better long term.

480 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:32:43pm

re: #469 Dark_Falcon

I admire your spirit, but that comeback won't be for a long time. Wozzablog is sadly right on this point: For now, Cali won't have options because its debts are too high. Until it pays its debts down, things won't get much better.

Sound familiar?

The federal government is doing the exact same thing. The only difference is the feds are compounding the problem by printing a shitload of money to "lend".

481 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:32:46pm

re: #473 Dark_Falcon

Steve, that was uncalled for and mean. Downding.

it's the truth...too bad

482 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:33:07pm

re: #478 Gus 802

Yes. And that failed too.

It just reminded me so much of the old Bloom County strips, where whenever anything went wrong, Mr. Limekiller would scream "It's Reagan's fault!"

483 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:33:11pm

re: #462 albusteve

no, what an inspiration when mighty CA comes begging to the American public to save their ass...I could care less...take your lettuce and shove it up your ass...we don't need you, CA is poison...and please stay the hell out of NM

Now, now, lettuce not be rude.
BTW, did you mean an iceberg or a romaine?

484 palomino  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:33:14pm

re: #436 albusteve

I don't speak for teabaggers...that's some one else's obsession

Of course you don't. Only God and Sarah Palin can speak for the teabaggers Tea Party Protesters.

485 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:34:36pm

re: #482 SanFranciscoZionist

It just reminded me so much of the old Bloom County strips, where whenever anything went wrong, Mr. Limekiller would scream "It's Reagan's fault!"

Yeah, now it's ACORN.

Funny you know. ACORN didn't become such a big issue until this year. After looking at that poll I would say that the interest in ACORN is just to pimp up the conspiracy theory "that ACORN stole the Presidential election for Barack Obama last year."

486 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:35:01pm

re: #480 Racer X

Sound familiar?

The federal government is doing the exact same thing. The only difference is the feds are compounding the problem by printing a shitload of money to "lend".

yup...and people here joke about it, or ignore the significance of union payouts like in CA, 700mi of coastline and they are drying up...what genius

487 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:35:17pm

re: #465 Floral Giraffe

You do NOT want to know what we are going to charge you for your lettuce & strawberries & citrus crops next year...

///

I grow lettuce in my back yard. And broccoli, among many other things. But the lettuce and broccoli were the lone survivors of the crazy-ass freeze that just hit central Texas (normally wouldn't come til mid january). I don't need your lettuce or broccoli, and I hate oranges. So there. I will, however, try to get as close to a lifetime supply of Napa wine in the "Everything must go!" sale.

488 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:35:19pm

re: #483 Spare O'Lake

Now, now, lettuce not be rude.
BTW, did you mean an iceberg or a romaine?

Butter, silly!

489 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:35:42pm

re: #458 Racer X

I've already said - tell that to the states who are shedding teachers and police officers. If there were fat to trim it's gone at state level - no one wants to cut teacher and police jobs.

The feds are bailing out the states who are suffering from having been underfunded by the Feds and are now being kicked by decreased revenues across the board.

The feds are trying to cut spending across the top - but the benefits won't be seen to the public for a very long time as those measures will not affect the budgets for departments positively, they will not get to keep what has been saved, it will go on paying down the deficit. Govt will need more revenue eventuall.

490 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:35:44pm

re: #477 Walter L. Newton

I took the money a year ago, with out ANY CONNECTION to stimulus funds. Does that make sense to you.

The implication, a whole year later, that the stimulus funding had anything to do with supporting this particular production was stretching the truth.

Evidently that doesn't bother you. It bothers me. Yes I took the money, a whole year ago, money that had no connection to the stimulus.

Ok, you have a beef with the reporter. I agree.

491 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:35:50pm

re: #483 Spare O'Lake

Now, now, lettuce not be rude.
BTW, did you mean an iceberg or a romaine?

heh...lettuce pray for CA

492 Bloodnok  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:36:13pm

re: #466 wozzablog

Bush did the tax cut thing and ended up with a big fucking deficit.

I have been waiting for this. You may not have noticed how much the size of government grew during Bush's terms. And yes, people here at LGF (even his most staunch supporters) were quite vocal in their objection to the amount of spending that occurred on Bush's watch.

The straight line you are drawing between "Bush tax cuts" and "big fucking defecit" is not, in reality as straight as you are portraying it.

493 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:36:37pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

A point we can sort of agree on, with one difference. The democrats kicked their far left crazies to the curb, the republicans (much to my embarrassment) seem to be embracing theirs.

There's a lot of truth in that.

I think the Reps can be broken into the SoCons and the FiCons (or Establishment Republicans if you're freaking old). Until W(orst) the FiCons kind of ran the show. The wackos got their planks but they didn't get the keys. Then the wackos got the keys. It turns out that the wackos can't drive. Who knew?

The Dems on the other hand can be broken into the Progs and the Dems. The Progs definitely turned out the votes that won the last two Senate cycles and the Dems thanked them for their participation. With like, a card or something but I can't remember what it was. No, Obama is not a Prog.

However, the Dems are not dumb. A few of them have kind of realized that their goose is microwaved if they don't deliver on Health Care since the Progs aren't exactly feeling the love. But if the Economy continues to recover, Health Care is passed, and we exit from Iraq, then the SoCons will nominate Palin, and she'll get to dress up all nice and make speeches. The Progs will be happy. The Dems will be happy and Lieberman will be retired.

494 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:36:40pm

re: #485 Gus 802

Yeah, now it's ACORN.

Funny you know. ACORN didn't become such a big issue until this year. After looking at that poll I would say that the interest in ACORN is just to pimp up the conspiracy theory "that ACORN stole the Presidential election for Barack Obama last year."

I mean for real... how do they say that happened exactly?

495 rurality  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:37:23pm

re: #467 Gus 802

Justice Department worked ON the state of New Mexico, and when David Iglesias refused to prosecute bogus voter fraud, refused to get all integrity on it, he was fired.

496 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:37:39pm

re: #492 Bloodnok

It was unfunded - he should have had cast iron assurances from congress that they would cut spendning. He didn't have those assurances and signed away the surplus anyway.

497 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:38:00pm

re: #489 wozzablog

I've already said - tell that to the states who are shedding teachers and police officers. If there were fat to trim it's gone at state level - no one wants to cut teacher and police jobs.

The feds are bailing out the states who are suffering from having been underfunded by the Feds and are now being kicked by decreased revenues across the board.

The feds are trying to cut spending across the top - but the benefits won't be seen to the public for a very long time as those measures will not affect the budgets for departments positively, they will not get to keep what has been saved, it will go on paying down the deficit. Govt will need more revenue eventuall.

fuck the govt...they have enough revenue...govt is not the answer to the problem, they are the problem

498 Mich-again  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:38:24pm

re: #472 Gus 802

ACORN stole teh elecshun!

Well they helped elect Obama, but not as much as Sarah Palin did.

499 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:39:28pm

re: #494 marjoriemoon

I mean for real... how do they say that happened exactly?

I never read any of the conspiracies. But this was the question for the poll:

Do you think that Barack Obama legitimately won the Presidential election last year, or do you think that ACORN stole it for him? If you think he won the election legitimately, press 1. If you think ACORN stole it for him, press 2. If you’re not sure, press 3.
500 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:39:33pm

Night, Lizards. Hope school isn't closed tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

501 Mich-again  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:39:41pm

re: #489 wozzablog

The feds are trying to cut spending across the top

Cutting spending alone won't fix anything. The economy needs to grow so more people can pay taxes.

502 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:40:50pm

re: #489 wozzablog

I've already said - tell that to the states who are shedding teachers and police officers. If there were fat to trim it's gone at state level - no one wants to cut teacher and police jobs.

The government spends money on things besides teachers and policemen. Are you saying there is absolutely no fat left to trim?

503 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:41:05pm

re: #501 Mich-again

Cutting spending alone won't fix anything. The economy needs to grow so more people can pay taxes.

right...something people here just cannot get through their heads...wealth has to come from somewhere...taxes are secondary

504 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:41:48pm

re: #497 albusteve

fuck the zen "there is no spoon shit".

It's going to be up to congress to cut the fucking spending eventually. Congress is part of Government.

505 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:42:14pm

re: #501 Mich-again

Cutting spending alone won't fix anything. The economy needs to grow so more people can pay taxes.

Exactly, Mich. Except I'll add wozzablog earlier said the only way to balance the budget was tax increases. I mentioned there was also spending cuts. It might come down to both in the US's case, but at the end of the day, it's the economy that needs to be able to support the burden.

506 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:42:51pm

re: #499 Gus 802

wtf? Do you believe in high government spending, or are you a racist? If you believe in high...

507 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:43:05pm

re: #502 Racer X

The government spends money on things besides teachers and policemen. Are you saying there is absolutely no fat left to trim?

yeah...dump the high speed rail to Vegas...more money flooding out of CA...those people are insane out there...they simply have no clue

508 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:43:19pm

re: #504 wozzablog

fuck the zen "there is no spoon shit".

It's going to be up to congress to cut the fucking spending eventually. Congress is part of Government.

Thank you!

You have come full circle.

509 Bloodnok  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:43:24pm

re: #496 wozzablog

It was unfunded - he should have had cast iron assurances from congress that they would cut spendning. He didn't have those assurances and signed away the surplus anyway.

Hey, I'm all for the Balanced Budget Amendment. Congress has no impetus to reign themselves in so it didn't surprise me that they kept spending. And I will knock Bush for being all for the spending that occurred. But I won't blame the recession on the tax cuts. Taxpayers should not have to keep feeling an ever increasing pinch simply because Congress can't resist acting like, well, Congress.

510 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:43:39pm

re: #499 Gus 802

I never read any of the conspiracies. But this was the question for the poll:

Do you think that Barack Obama legitimately won the Presidential election last year, or do you think that ACORN stole it for him? If you think he won the election legitimately, press 1. If you think ACORN stole it for him, press 2. If you’re not sure, press 3.

If you're absolutely speechless, press 4...

511 cliffster  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:44:09pm

re: #508 Racer X

Thank you!

You have come full circle.

Yeah, that was a little odd.

512 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:44:36pm

re: #504 wozzablog

fuck the zen "there is no spoon shit".

It's going to be up to congress to cut the fucking spending eventually. Congress is part of Government.

well duh!...thanks for that Capt Obvious...the spenders have to stop spending...got it

513 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:44:47pm

re: #511 cliffster

Yeah, that was a little odd.

Like pulling teeth.

Sheesh.

514 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:45:23pm

re: #509 Bloodnok

It's quite easy for Congress to raise taxes and ask us to do with less. Where is their responsibility to treat what we do send them with respect, and behave responsibly? Where do we get to ask them to do with less, and find ways to stretch a dollar?

515 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:46:53pm

re: #502 Racer X

Charlie Crist in Florida and Governors who ran for stimulus dollars over hot coals did so for a reason.

States are not well off as some would like you to believe and have been involved in cutting programmes for years - stimulus has staunched the bleeding before it got to an artery.

Crist took a big gamble tat could have ended his career as a republican - i don't think he would have done so if there was some obscure endownment to "modern fish mongery and appreciation of latin artworks combined course" that could have been cut.

If Crist hadn't taken stimulus he'd have walked into the senate as an R - now people are mad as hell - he bit a bullet for a damn good reason.

516 bosforus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:47:52pm

I'm in a soccer mood:
Funny misses:


"Best Goals Evar!"

Best Indoor Soccer Goal Ever! No. Seriously. Watch it.

My favorite goal from the 2006 WC to put Argentina through to the quarter-finals:
517 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:48:14pm

re: #462 albusteve

no, what an inspiration when mighty CA comes begging to the American public to save their ass...I could care less...take your lettuce and shove it up your ass...we don't need you, CA is poison...and please stay the hell out of NM

Um, weren't you just calling me an asshole earlier?

See, here's how it really is. California would be one of the richest nations on earth if it were its own country. California alone is responsible for 13% of our GDP. As California goes, so goes your precious New Mexico. If CA's economy truly crashes, the effects will be felt by you no matter where you go, or what you do, or how much bravado you exhibit.

518 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:48:22pm

re: #512 albusteve

yes - but i believe you said "govt can't solve the problem"... thanks for changing your position on that.

my work here is done.

519 borgcube  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:49:04pm

re: #489 wozzablog

I've already said - tell that to the states who are shedding teachers and police officers. If there were fat to trim it's gone at state level - no one wants to cut teacher and police jobs.

The feds are bailing out the states who are suffering from having been underfunded by the Feds and are now being kicked by decreased revenues across the board.

The feds are trying to cut spending across the top - but the benefits won't be seen to the public for a very long time as those measures will not affect the budgets for departments positively, they will not get to keep what has been saved, it will go on paying down the deficit. Govt will need more revenue eventuall.

California doubled its spending revenue between 1998 and 2008. It ain't about revenue.

And where in the hell do you get off saying that the feds are trying to cut spending? What the fraking frak?

520 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:49:39pm

re: #514 Sharmuta

It's quite easy for Congress to raise taxes and ask us to do with less. Where is their responsibility to treat what we do send them with respect, and behave responsibly? Where do we get to ask them to do with less, and find ways to stretch a dollar?

there is no responsibility...it is a dream

521 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:50:11pm

re: #507 albusteve

yeah...dump the high speed rail to Vegas...more money flooding out of CA...those people are insane out there...they simply have no clue

Minor correction. There is no high speed rail to Vegas in the budget.

link...

522 Bagua  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:50:33pm

re: #504 wozzablog

fuck the zen "there is no spoon shit".

It's going to be up to congress to cut the fucking spending eventually. Congress is part of Government.

Downding for gratuitous vulgarity.

523 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:51:05pm

re: #509 Bloodnok

I'm not blaiming the recession on tax cuts - just saying that there is never enough time between recessions for tax cutting policies to work before revenues have to be raised again artificicially, and that tax cuts impeede that happening as you are starting from a lower base than you did previously.

Markets cause recessions.

524 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:51:22pm

re: #515 wozzablog

I was of the opinion (though I'm no expert on Florida) that if Crist didn't take the stimulus his state would have been in big trouble. He could either anger his base, or anger absolutely everyone.

525 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:52:00pm

re: #517 WindUpBird

Um, weren't you just calling me an asshole earlier?

See, here's how it really is. California would be one of the richest nations on earth if it were its own country. California alone is responsible for 13% of our GDP. As California goes, so goes your precious New Mexico. If CA's economy truly crashes, the effects will be felt by you no matter where you go, or what you do, or how much bravado you exhibit.

CA is in debt at least 50b dollars...what the fuck are you talking about?, and yes I called you an asshole, for calling TonyC a troll...you mean nothing here...tell me how it is whiz kid

526 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:52:24pm

re: #522 Bagua

Please - down ding everypost from every poster who contains a swear or two.

There will be a pop quiz later.

(downding for this post already taken into account)

527 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:53:24pm

re: #515 wozzablog

Charlie Crist in Florida and Governors who ran for stimulus dollars over hot coals did so for a reason.

States are not well off as some would like you to believe and have been involved in cutting programmes for years - stimulus has staunched the bleeding before it got to an artery.

Crist took a big gamble tat could have ended his career as a republican - i don't think he would have done so if there was some obscure endownment to "modern fish mongery and appreciation of latin artworks combined course" that could have been cut.

If Crist hadn't taken stimulus he'd have walked into the senate as an R - now people are mad as hell - he bit a bullet for a damn good reason.

Yea, but he's got the hard Right on his tail by the name of Rubio and who do you think the Right will support? Crist is a moderate in many ways, much as you explained.

OTOH, you have a significant portion of the mid-state (Orlando/Tampa area), usually quite Red that went Blue in 2008. It depends on how disillusioned they are with Obama at election time. If healthcare gets ironed out favorably and the "surge" (or whatever we're calling it) in Afghanistan goes well, along with some education things he's doing, capping credit card rates, he may hold those folks. It's going to be an interesting race indeed.

528 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:53:32pm

re: #524 WindUpBird

That makes two of us...

529 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:53:39pm

re: #521 avanti

Minor correction. There is no high speed rail to Vegas in the budget.

link...

Correct.

California just voted for a high speed rail to San Francisco.

530 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:56:10pm

re: #527 marjoriemoon

It's one i'm looking forward to immensely - the shake out for the sould of the Republican party is happening down there.

Rubio has tea baggers and culture cons, Crist has the thinking centre and a large personal vote he'll carry over from being a popular centrist governor.

It will be a good one - but bloodsport by the end i fear.

531 Bagua  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:56:22pm

re: #526 wozzablog

Please - down ding everypost from every poster who contains a swear or two.

There will be a pop quiz later.

(downding for this post already taken into account)

You've been here less than a month. I don't need a sarcastic reply or advice on when I should downding.

532 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:56:35pm

re: #525 albusteve

CA is in debt at least 50b dollars...what the fuck are you talking about?, and yes I called you an asshole, for calling TonyC a troll...you mean nothing here...tell me how it is whiz kid

Yes, they are in debt, like the rest of our country. Big difference between a state being in debt, and defaulting on their debt. This state tribalism where you're actually hoping for the failure of the most fiscally important state in the union, it's pretty classy!

If I truly meant nothing here, why are you talking to me? I'm nothing, right? I don't exist! So clearly you must be talking to yourself.

533 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:57:38pm

re: #529 Racer X

It's so ridiculous.
You can FLY to San Francisco from LA ( LAX airport only, Long Beach & Ontario & Burbank not included) HOURLY for under $100.

We need this rail line, why?

534 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:57:44pm

re: #530 wozzablog

It's one i'm looking forward to immensely - the shake out for the sould of the Republican party is happening down there.

Rubio has tea baggers and culture cons, Crist has the thinking centre and a large personal vote he'll carry over from being a popular centrist governor.

It will be a good one - but bloodsport by the end i fear.

The danger there is that they'll punch each other out, and leave the Dem with a clear path to victory. Nasty primaries are never good things, but sometimes they need to happen.

535 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:57:55pm

re: #529 Racer X

Correct.

California just voted for a high speed rail to San Francisco.

Californians are crazy...there is no other way to put it...their number one industry is in the tank for lack of water! while they dole out billions to unions and illegal immigrants...crazy

536 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:58:27pm

re: #531 Bagua

You've been here less than a month. I don't need a sarcastic reply or advice on when I should downding.

Now, THIS is gratuitous: (NOT WORK SAFE)

537 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:58:38pm

Don't make it personal guys. We're all just dots on a screen.

538 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:58:43pm

re: #515 wozzablog

I think what this shows is how states are too dependent on federal spending to meet their needs. I think we need to discuss a number of the aspects of how the government collects and spends their revenue, because how we're doing it now isn't working. The way government handles fiscal matters is appalling, and the American people deserve better. But then- I'm talking real reform, which the entrenched powers that be in DC would rail against, imo. But that's where I think a bold fisc-con ought to go with a message.

539 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:58:54pm

re: #532 WindUpBird

Yes, they are in debt, like the rest of our country. Big difference between a state being in debt, and defaulting on their debt. This state tribalism where you're actually hoping for the failure of the most fiscally important state in the union, it's pretty classy!

If I truly meant nothing here, why are you talking to me? I'm nothing, right? I don't exist! So clearly you must be talking to yourself.

fuck off noob

540 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:59:35pm

re: #533 Floral Giraffe

It's so ridiculous.
You can FLY to San Francisco from LA ( LAX airport only, Long Beach & Ontario & Burbank not included) HOURLY for under $100.

We need this rail line, why?

Let see: crowded skies, less fuel used, much lower emissions...

541 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 8:59:58pm

re: #535 albusteve

Californians are crazy...there is no other way to put it...their number one industry is in the tank for lack of water! while they dole out billions to unions and illegal immigrants...crazy

Crazy like the internet you use every day!

Of course, you'll stay on the inernet, bitching about many of the very people whose technological achievements allow you to say these silly things.

542 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:00:00pm

re: #533 Floral Giraffe

It's so ridiculous.
You can FLY to San Francisco from LA ( LAX airport only, Long Beach & Ontario & Burbank not included) HOURLY for under $100.

We need this rail line, why?

union work...pandering, like a noose around their neck

543 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:00:26pm

re: #517 WindUpBird

I thought this was interesting:

New Mexico - Federal Government Spending

Federal government spending is a major driver of the New Mexico economy. In 2005 the federal government spent $2.03 on New Mexico for every dollar of tax revenue collected from the state. This rate of return is higher than any other state in the Union.

Many of the federal jobs relate to the military; the state hosts three air force bases (Kirtland Air Force Base, Holloman Air Force Base, and Cannon Air Force Base); a testing range (White Sands Missile Range); and an army proving ground and maneuver range (Fort Bliss - McGregor Range). A May 2005 estimate by New Mexico State University is that 11.65% of the state's total employment arises directly or indirectly from military spending.[43] Other federal installations include the technology labs of Los Alamos National Laboratory and Sandia National Laboratories.

So to recap:

In 2005 the federal government spent $2.03 on New Mexico for every dollar of tax revenue collected from the state.

This rate of return is higher than any other state in the Union.

544 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:00:28pm

re: #531 Bagua

I generally apologise for excessive sarc - and will do so again on this occasion.

Thats my last word on it.

545 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:01:04pm

re: #535 albusteve

Californians are crazy...there is no other way to put it...their number one industry is in the tank for lack of water! while they dole out billions to unions and illegal immigrants...crazy

I hear you. But you know what really sucks? We've known for years that this was coming! The state government continued to spend like drunken assholes anyway.

546 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:02:43pm

re: #543 Gus 802

Wait a minute! New Mexico is a bigger Suck than any other state in the union?

Hello? Steve?

547 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:03:05pm

re: #533 Floral Giraffe

It's so ridiculous.
You can FLY to San Francisco from LA ( LAX airport only, Long Beach & Ontario & Burbank not included) HOURLY for under $100.

We need this rail line, why?

Because it's far more efficient than a bunch of redundant cars driving the route? A looot of people drive that route, they don't all fly.

548 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:03:26pm

re: #540 Kruk

Let see: crowded skies, less fuel used, much lower emissions...

fine...so how do they pay for it?...federal money?

549 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:03:58pm

re: #543 Gus 802

I thought this was interesting:

New Mexico - Federal Government Spending

So to recap:

In 2005 the federal government spent $2.03 on New Mexico for every dollar of tax revenue collected from the state.

This rate of return is higher than any other state in the Union.

Wow, so New Mexico is the biggest charity case in the union?

550 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:04:07pm

re: #546 Racer X

Wait a minute! New Mexico is a bigger Suck than any other state in the union?

Hello? Steve?

Looks like it. 2 to 1 for every dollar collected.

551 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:04:08pm

re: #538 Sharmuta

I really could not agree more.

552 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:04:46pm

re: #540 Kruk

Hours of my time wasted...
Travelling in an inconvenient and inefficient way.
I do not believe it would be a lower emission or more fuel efficient way to travel. It might be, convince me?

553 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:04:50pm

re: #543 Gus 802

I thought this was interesting:

New Mexico - Federal Government Spending

So to recap:

In 2005 the federal government spent $2.03 on New Mexico for every dollar of tax revenue collected from the state.

This rate of return is higher than any other state in the Union.

the feds are the biggest employer down here, the poorest state in the union

554 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:05:15pm

re: #550 Gus 802

Looks like it. 2 to 1 for every dollar collected.

Sonofabitch. I want my money back.

555 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:05:49pm

re: #554 Racer X

Sonofabitch. I want my money back.

Maybe you can get free property in NM.

/

556 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:06:20pm

re: #546 Racer X

Wait a minute! New Mexico is a bigger Suck than any other state in the union?

Hello? Steve?

what about it?...the feds love us down here, they shoot off A bombs at White Sands...pay us

557 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:07:15pm

re: #552 Floral Giraffe

Hours of my time wasted...
Travelling in an inconvenient and inefficient way.
I do not believe it would be a lower emission or more fuel efficient way to travel. It might be, convince me?

Last time I checked, there was no plan to *make* people use a railway if they didn't want to. As another poster pointed out though, many drive that route, and kicking back in a train seat and working would be a much more productive way of spending that time than at the wheel.

558 Gus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:07:20pm

re: #556 albusteve

what about it?...the feds love us down here, they shoot off A bombs at White Sands...pay us

I imagine Los Alamos gets a lot of funding.

559 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:07:20pm

re: #519 borgcube

News media tell me things sometimes. But it's AP, just ignore it.

[Link: www.google.com...]

560 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:08:25pm

re: #549 WindUpBird

Wow, so New Mexico is the biggest charity case in the union?

yes, what about it?...how does NM fit your paradigm of federal spending on states?...a huge part of the state is owned by the feds...pay up amigos

561 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:09:00pm

re: #552 Floral Giraffe

Hours of my time wasted...
Travelling in an inconvenient and inefficient way.
I do not believe it would be a lower emission or more fuel efficient way to travel. It might be, convince me?

Trains are the most efficient means of overland transport available. A train can also be a much more pleasant way to travel than by air. Amtrak train tend to have more room than planes, and I really appreciate that space.

562 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:09:43pm

re: #552 Floral Giraffe

Hours of my time wasted...
Travelling in an inconvenient and inefficient way.
I do not believe it would be a lower emission or more fuel efficient way to travel. It might be, convince me?

Would you have to take your shoes off to get on the train?

563 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:10:15pm

re: #558 Gus 802

I imagine Los Alamos gets a lot of funding.

and Sandia, White Sands, Kirkland etc...we have a solid relationship with the feds down here...bring it on

564 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:10:40pm

re: #556 albusteve

what about it?...the feds love us down here, they shoot off A bombs at White Sands...pay us

Trade?

Nukes for your food.

565 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:10:56pm

re: #562 SanFranciscoZionist

Would you have to take your shoes off to get on the train?

Also, would you be charged exorbitantly for bringing on more than one bag? :D

566 Bagua  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:11:21pm

re: #544 wozzablog

I generally apologise for excessive sarc - and will do so again on this occasion.

Thats my last word on it.

Thank you.

567 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:11:27pm

re: #557 Kruk

Train would probably be less expensive than driving, but take 5+ hours versus flying. And, for the most part, you do need a car on the other end of the trip. Driving at $4 a gallon gas, costs more than flying, BTW...

568 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:11:39pm

re: #557 Kruk

Last time I checked, there was no plan to *make* people use a railway if they didn't want to. As another poster pointed out though, many drive that route, and kicking back in a train seat and working would be a much more productive way of spending that time than at the wheel.

fine and dandy...who pays for it?...me?, I don't think so

569 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:12:16pm

re: #551 wozzablog

I really could not agree more.

In my opinion, government, on all levels, should be made to treat their books like a business or home would. Balance their budget, manage their debt , wipe out fraud, encourage thrift, stop waste as best as possible, and have transparency. I also think this should be bi-partisan, as this is in the best interest of the nation to keep our financial house in order. A lot of the problem is the complexity of the issue (much like climate change) that it's hard for people to follow the details, but the basics are easy enough for people to understand. No one can really argue against government doing better with the money they already have, can they?

570 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:12:25pm

re: #561 Dark_Falcon

Trains are the most efficient means of overland transport available. A train can also be a much more pleasant way to travel than by air. Amtrak train tend to have more room than planes, and I really appreciate that space.

As the richest country in the world, we suck at high speed rail. I recall even 30 years ago travel by train in Japan was SOP.

571 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:13:24pm

re: #564 Racer X

Trade?

Nukes for your food.

we feed ourselves to a large extent down here...laugh if you want, but it's true...NM is not like any other state in the Union

572 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:14:12pm

re: #503 albusteve

right...something people here just cannot get through their heads...wealth has to come from somewhere...taxes are secondary

This is true, but try to imagine more wealth, other than simply more efficiently created wealth, without more people.

573 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:14:27pm

re: #561 Dark_Falcon

If it costs $50 and takes 5 hours to get to SF from LA by train, but it costs $100 and takes 2 hours ( travel time AND airport time) to fly.
And, if you fly, you can depart or arrive any hour of the day. Train arrives at X o'clock.

How do you chose to travel?

574 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:14:45pm

re: #569 Sharmuta

you are such a fresh air of civility and rationale...HAIL!

575 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:15:16pm

re: #568 albusteve

fine and dandy...who pays for it?...me?, I don't think so

We pay for New Mexico's infrastructure on a 2-1 ratio, maybe we should have left you with dirt roads. BTW, the blue states tend to pay more than they get back, the extra money goes to the poorer states. That's redistribution of wealth.

576 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:15:44pm

re: #573 Floral Giraffe

And I made up the price of the train ticket.
SIGH. Made it 1/2 of the plane price.
Didn't research it.
Plane price is good, though...

577 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:15:57pm

re: #572 Naso Tang

This is true, but try to imagine more wealth, other than simply more efficiently created wealth, without more people.

as for myself, I think about that all the time!

578 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:16:10pm

re: #508 Racer X

No - no i haven't.

see
re: #370 wozzablog

Congress was always ultimately going to have to cut spending at some point - and Obama has got people trying to cut off the top at present.

It's going to take a bit of everything.

579 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:16:36pm

re: #575 avanti

We pay for New Mexico's infrastructure on a 2-1 ratio, maybe we should have left you with dirt roads. BTW, the blue states tend to pay more than they get back, the extra money goes to the poorer states. That's redistribution of wealth.

No it is not redistribution. It is sharing. There is a difference, politically speaking.

580 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:17:47pm

re: #573 Floral Giraffe

If it costs $50 and takes 5 hours to get to SF from LA by train, but it costs $100 and takes 2 hours ( travel time AND airport time) to fly.
And, if you fly, you can depart or arrive any hour of the day. Train arrives at X o'clock.

How do you chose to travel?

I take the train, because it's cheaper, I'll be able to actually bring a lot of luggage and my giant laptop with me. Also, there's more likely to be better legroom, also, I can go to the dining car. That $100 assumes no luggage. Extra luggage is $50 a bag on a lot of carriers now.

I can also fly from PDX to Seattle, but I choose to drive.

581 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:18:17pm

re: #575 avanti

We pay for New Mexico's infrastructure on a 2-1 ratio, maybe we should have left you with dirt roads. BTW, the blue states tend to pay more than they get back, the extra money goes to the poorer states. That's redistribution of wealth.

Yes, but that's the good kind of wealth redistribution. Sheesh, get it straight!

//

582 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:19:17pm

re: #575 avanti

We pay for New Mexico's infrastructure on a 2-1 ratio, maybe we should have left you with dirt roads. BTW, the blue states tend to pay more than they get back, the extra money goes to the poorer states. That's redistribution of wealth.

It sure is.

Blowhards dissing California have no idea how much their quality of life depends on California and its economy, industry, and technological innovation.

583 Kruk  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:19:30pm

re: #568 albusteve

fine and dandy...who pays for it?...me?, I don't think so

The idea of states being self sufficient is an admirable philosophy, and I would support it if was applied consistently to all states in good times and bad. As others pointed out though, States other than CA get much more in Federal spending than they pay in taxes, and this comes from other states. To cut off a state which is in a bad financial state when it has contributed in better times though, seems more than a little rich. The simple fact is that CA needs help, and the jobs and taxes created by a project like this will help.

584 Bloodnok  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:19:47pm

re: #576 Floral Giraffe

And I made up the price of the train ticket.
SIGH. Made it 1/2 of the plane price.
Didn't research it.
Plane price is good, though...

Pretty close. Amtrak's site had it as $50 in the morning, $54 if you leave in the afternoon.

585 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:20:03pm

re: #576 Floral Giraffe

And I made up the price of the train ticket.
SIGH. Made it 1/2 of the plane price.
Didn't research it.
Plane price is good, though...

I might take the train sometime, just to see more from the window than you do in a plane. Might be easier with children, even if it is longer. I don't know if it would really pay for itself, though.

586 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:21:27pm
587 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:21:57pm

re: #585 SanFranciscoZionist

I might take the train sometime, just to see more from the window than you do in a plane. Might be easier with children, even if it is longer. I don't know if it would really pay for itself, though.

I think the idea isn't to compete with planes, but to compete with cars. it becomes a lot more attractive if you compare it to driving!

588 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:22:03pm

re: #579 Naso Tang

No it is not redistribution. It is sharing. There is a difference, politically speaking.

Can you define the difference?

589 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:22:06pm

re: #575 avanti

We pay for New Mexico's infrastructure on a 2-1 ratio, maybe we should have left you with dirt roads. BTW, the blue states tend to pay more than they get back, the extra money goes to the poorer states. That's redistribution of wealth.

you use NM 2-1...have you not been reading?...we don't owe the feds anything...they owe us

590 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:22:07pm

re: #582 WindUpBird

It sure is.

and technological innovation.


how do you put a price tag on tech innovation? in case you do, then NM pays back what in high tech research what it takes in spending on infrastructure. it is more like sharing.

591 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:22:22pm

re: #585 SanFranciscoZionist

If you travel in the daytime, it is a BEAUTIFUL trip!
It's just, that for me, it's a 5 hour trip, versus a 2 hour air trip (Don't forget the airport Nazi's, errr TSA folks...)

So, if it's a pleasure trip, I can do the train, business, means a flight.

592 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:22:27pm

re: #569 Sharmuta

No one can really argue against government doing better with the money they already have, can they?

Nobody can - however a lot of what is in the budget in terms of numbers is metaphyscial - money that won't exist for another 5 years sometimes.

Short turn arounds on projects can take deficit spending or temporary tax rises because the bulk of Government money is tied into either the military or going back to the states or ringfenced from being moved from Medicare/Medicaid or Social Security - much more besides is set aside in traunches of years and years at a time for certain infrastructure projects.

593 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:22:30pm

re: #582 WindUpBird

It sure is.

Blowhards dissing California have no idea how much their quality of life depends on California and its economy, industry, and technological innovation.

What is this tribalism emerging? How many people want to drive through dirt roads to get to California anyway, not to mention get out of it?

594 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:22:54pm

re: #579 Naso Tang

No it is not redistribution. It is sharing. There is a difference, politically speaking.

LOL, that's kinda funny. When we tax the rich to help the poor it's redistribution. When we make rich states support poor states, it's "sharing"

595 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:22:56pm
596 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:23:07pm

re: #582 WindUpBird

It sure is.

Blowhards dissing California have no idea how much their quality of life depends on California and its economy, industry, and technological innovation.

They don't care. We have Democrats here, and illegal aliens, and Hollywood, and, oh, tons of bad stuff.

//

597 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:23:13pm

re: #573 Floral Giraffe

If it costs $50 and takes 5 hours to get to SF from LA by train, but it costs $100 and takes 2 hours ( travel time AND airport time) to fly.
And, if you fly, you can depart or arrive any hour of the day. Train arrives at X o'clock.

How do you chose to travel?

I'll take the train, I need the space (size 30 legs). I wouldn't go there anyway, though. I don't drive so LA is not a place for me.

598 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:23:34pm

Rasmussen poll: Tea Party Tops GOP on Three-Way Generic Ballot

Works for me. The SoCons want a Party of their own. With Huckabee cratering it will be fun to watch Palin and Romney go at it. Figuratively.

599 jaunte  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:23:44pm

re: #593 Naso Tang

What is this tribalism emerging? How many people want to drive through dirt roads to get to California anyway, not to mention get out of it?



A granfalloon, in the fictional religion of Bokononism (created by Kurt Vonnegut in his 1963 novel Cat's Cradle), is defined as a "false karass." That is, it is a group of people who outwardly choose or claim to have a shared identity or purpose, but whose mutual association is actually meaningless.


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

600 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:23:46pm

re: #588 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you define the difference?

Yes of course. It is based on one nation, not 50.

601 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:24:24pm

re: #587 WindUpBird

I think the idea isn't to compete with planes, but to compete with cars. it becomes a lot more attractive if you compare it to driving!

It does, but there are advantages to a car too. You can't stop the train at that cool little hamburger joint.

602 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:24:31pm

re: #581 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but that's the good kind of wealth redistribution. Sheesh, get it straight!

//

it is if you want nuclear weapons and research of all kinds around your neighborhood...NM is just over 2m people...figure it out smart ass

603 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:24:47pm

re: #600 Naso Tang

Yes of course. It is based on one nation, not 50.

I trust we are still talking of driving?

604 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:25:34pm

re: #602 albusteve

it is if you want nuclear weapons and research of all kinds around your neighborhood...NM is just over 2m people...figure it out smart ass

Chill.

605 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:26:16pm

re: #589 albusteve

you use NM 2-1...have you not been reading?...we don't owe the feds anything...they owe us

You pay in half what you get back, you think you are the only state that has federal jobs or land ? You live in a poor state supported by states better off. I don't have a problem with that, just the disrespecting of California current budget problems.

606 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:27:14pm

re: #600 Naso Tang

Yes of course. It is based on one nation, not 50.

That seems reasonable to me, but so do many things that seem to get tarred as redistribution of wealth.

607 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:28:20pm

I've been to New Mexico - its nice.

I fuckin' love L.A.

608 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:28:48pm

re: #590 SpaceJesus

how do you put a price tag on tech innovation? in case you do, then NM pays back what in high tech research what it takes in spending on infrastructure. it is more like sharing.

I actually am not really begrudging NM taking a lot of fed dollars for Los Alamos, etc (though i find it funny that the NM guy who hates the fed still likes their money) , I just wanted to strike back at the baseless and idiotic attack on California.

609 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:29:41pm

re: #602 albusteve

it is if you want nuclear weapons and research of all kinds around your neighborhood...NM is just over 2m people...figure it out smart ass

Oh, just quit. I did not attack your state, and you have been keening about mine for no apparent reason for post after post. I don't know if you're drunk or what, but it's getting pretty boring.

I've stuck my lettuce up my ass, stick your nuclear weapons up yours and go sleep it off.

610 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:29:55pm

Blue States pay more but they also make more. Per Capita GDP

0 District of Columbia 64,991
1 Connecticut 56,248
2 New Jersey 50,919
3 Massachusetts 50,735
4 Wyoming 49,719
5 Maryland 48,091
6 New York 48,076
7 Alaska 43,321
8 Virginia 42,876
9 New Hampshire 42,830
10 Minnesota 42,772
11 California 42,696

39 Indiana 34,103
40 Georgia 33,975
41 Alabama 33,643
42 Arizona 32,953
43 Idaho 32,133
44 New Mexico 32,091
45 South Carolina 31,884
46 Kentucky 31,826
47 Arkansas 31,266
48 West Virginia 30,831
49 Utah 30,291
50 Mississippi 29,569

611 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:30:40pm

re: #610 Olsonist

It's called being "elite"...

612 jaunte  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:30:53pm

So you're saying no salads for a while, then.

613 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:31:08pm

re: #604 Naso Tang

Chill.

New Mexicans have given up their land, their loyalty and their hearts to America...read some history...New Mexican boys have fought like tigers from San Juan Hill to Fallujah...we don't owe the feds anything

614 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:31:14pm

re: #599 jaunte

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

This is deep stuff we are getting into, at an appropriately late hour. So where the hell do the hoops come into it?

"My God," she said, "are you a hoosier?"
I admitted I was.
"I'm a Hoosier, too," she crowed. "Nobody has to be ashamed of being a Hoosier."
"I'm not," I said. "I never knew anybody who was." – Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

615 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:31:17pm

re: #607 Racer X

I've been to New Mexico - its nice.

I fuckin' love L.A.

I can't do L.A. at all. Nothing against L.A., but I don't like the traffic, don't like the smog, don't mesh with the social vibe. Portland is perfect for me, if I had to move anywhere else, it'd either be Seattle or possibly Norcal.

616 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:31:20pm

re: #607 Racer X

I've been to New Mexico - its nice.

I fuckin' love L.A.

I was born in LA. I don't know if I'd ever want to live there as a grown-up. Probably won't get a chance to find out. My husband (AKA The Reluctant Daywalker) hates the sun.

617 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:32:14pm

re: #611 wozzablog

It's called being "elite"...

Damn. That makes me feel good! It's like way better than sucking.

618 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:32:25pm

re: #593 Naso Tang

What is this tribalism emerging? How many people want to drive through dirt roads to get to California anyway, not to mention get out of it?

Once drove west and when I hit Arkansas, I thought I was in a different country once I crossed the state line, The roads were awful years ago, may be better now.

619 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:32:54pm

re: #612 jaunte

So you're saying no salads for a while, then.

Wow. Get sucked into a government website for a little while, and you can really miss a lot of the action.

620 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:33:27pm

re: #605 avanti

You pay in half what you get back, you think you are the only state that has federal jobs or land ? You live in a poor state supported by states better off. I don't have a problem with that, just the disrespecting of California current budget problems.

the two have nothing in common...it's not federal employees milking CA, it's their own state workers...look it up...I've posted tons of stuff myself about CAs trouble...they did it to themselves, the feds have nothing to do with it

621 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:34:13pm

re: #610 Olsonist

I wonder why DC is at the top.

Hmm...

622 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:35:02pm
623 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:35:59pm

re: #608 WindUpBird

I actually am not really begrudging NM taking a lot of fed dollars for Los Alamos, etc (though i find it funny that the NM guy who hates the fed still likes their money) , I just wanted to strike back at the baseless and idiotic attack on California.

no argument, no cred...we have a deal with the feds down here...no comprende?...look around big shot and show me people getting fat off federal dollars...you can't...fuck off

624 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:37:15pm

Hey hows that surfing in NM?

625 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:37:16pm

re: #621 Racer X

I wonder why DC is at the top.

Hmm...

Well, yes hmmm, but also it's a 'state' with no rural areas, no burbs--all city, and city incomes (as well as costs) tend to be higher. It's like Boston alone, rather than all of MA being averaged in.

626 avanti  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:39:05pm

re: #620 albusteve

the two have nothing in common...it's not federal employees milking CA, it's their own state workers...look it up...I've posted tons of stuff myself about CAs trouble...they did it to themselves, the feds have nothing to do with it

LA's highway budget is probably higher then your entire states. Sure there is waste in their budget, but it's bigger than a lot of countries because it has to be. In better times, it's very well off, but tax income is down with the economy, and roads and the rest don't care.
To bitch about their budget, when other states help support yours is disingenuous IMHO.

627 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:39:10pm

re: #609 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, just quit. I did not attack your state, and you have been keening about mine for no apparent reason for post after post. I don't know if you're drunk or what, but it's getting pretty boring.

I've stuck my lettuce up my ass, stick your nuclear weapons up yours and go sleep it off.

my reason is to provide a vivid example of liberalism gone rampant in the richest state in the union, now broke and in debt because of it...too bad, deal with it on your own...federal tax monies coming into NM are well deserved...don't be such a dupe

628 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:42:50pm

re: #622 Sharmuta

BAH!
That is a REALLY old picture.
He's a "girly man" now...
LOL!

629 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:43:27pm

Nite

630 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:44:18pm

re: #629 Naso Tang

Sleep tight.
And, well!

631 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:44:28pm

re: #505 Sharmuta

It will come down to both and a growing economy - see 370 for my full position.

Don't know whey i ommited spending cuts in my first post - oversight on my part - just made my life much harder down the road.

632 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:44:45pm

re: #626 avanti

LA's highway budget is probably higher then your entire states. Sure there is waste in their budget, but it's bigger than a lot of countries because it has to be. In better times, it's very well off, but tax income is down with the economy, and roads and the rest don't care.
To bitch about their budget, when other states help support yours is disingenuous IMHO.

CAs problems stated years ago...they spend revenue they don't have as people flee the oppressive taxation...the feds don't support NM, we allow them down here for a price...it's a deal and to deny that is disingenuous...you cannot blow off CAs failures and blame someone else...ever been there?

633 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:45:32pm

re: #627 albusteve

You know nothing about the reason why our state is broke. It's entirely because of our government structure.

We, the people, are to blame. All of us in California. Not the liberals, not the conservatives, all of us. I'm to blame along with Ah-nuld.

I'm trying to fix it, though. So are a lot of other people. So why not tend to your own garden, and leave us to ours, thanks very much.

634 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:46:40pm

Aside from Navajo rugs and nuclear weapons what exactly does NM produce? CA is 25 times the economic size of NM.

My brother works at Sandia so I'm pretty clued into how NM works. Welfare state wouldn't be an exaggeration.

635 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:47:07pm

re: #624 Racer X

And, the weather.
You can't BEAT the weather here.
Oh, and the GIRLS!

636 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:47:10pm

re: #633 Obdicut

You know nothing about the reason why our state is broke. It's entirely because of our government structure.

We, the people, are to blame. All of us in California. Not the liberals, not the conservatives, all of us. I'm to blame along with Ah-nuld.

I'm trying to fix it, though. So are a lot of other people. So why not tend to your own garden, and leave us to ours, thanks very much.

I can post whatever I want...enlighten me, and tell me why CA is broke, your version

637 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:50:19pm

re: #634 Olsonist

Aside from Navajo rugs and nuclear weapons what exactly does NM produce? CA is 25 times the economic size of NM.

My brother works at Sandia so I'm pretty clued into how NM works. Welfare state wouldn't be an exaggeration.

CA is billions in debt...they are two different states with different economies...how did this powerhouse CA economy go broke?...why can't CA provide water for itself?...why are people flocking out of CA?...don't bother

638 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:52:52pm

re: #623 albusteve

no argument, no cred...we have a deal with the feds down here...no comprende?...look around big shot and show me people getting fat off federal dollars...you can't...fuck off

yes, you have a deal with the feds. You're happy to have their busines, as you bitch about them. Got it!

639 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:54:06pm

to all Californians...
stay out of New Mexico, we don't want your money or your bad attitude over here...take your tax oppressed ass to Oregon where they think you are cool and enlightened people

640 albusteve  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:54:41pm

re: #638 WindUpBird

yes, you have a deal with the feds. You're happy to have their busines, as you bitch about them. Got it!

I don't think so...

641 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:55:08pm

re: #631 wozzablog

It will come down to both and a growing economy - see 370 for my full position.

Don't know whey i ommited spending cuts in my first post - oversight on my part - just made my life much harder down the road.

I think we've found there are points of agreement. I would like to think ideas like having agencies adopt measures to save parts of their budget, and carry over to the next year instead of forcing them to spend it all would have an impact, but we couldn't know until it was examined. This are the sorts of reforms I think are common sense, and could make a difference but no one is speaking about such ideas. I think it's just too outside the box to register on a radar anywhere near DC and the political big shots.

642 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:55:12pm

re: #636 albusteve

I can post whatever I want...enlighten me, and tell me why CA is broke, your version

it's called Prop 13. Which makes it almost impossible to pass a budget because they need a crazy supermajority. That took me all of 15 seconds to google. Rewriting California's Constitiution

643 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:58:14pm

re: #639 albusteve

to all Californians...
stay out of New Mexico, we don't want your money or your bad attitude over here...take your tax oppressed ass to Oregon where they think you are cool and enlightened people

Yes, I agree! WHOLEHEARTEDLY! Stay far away from new Mexico! Take your business and your prosperity and spend it on me and my state instead!

/All the freelance and contract business I've gotten from Californian employers, it's pretty nice, I must admit

644 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 9:58:57pm

The CA budget is $84B as in billion, which has declined for the last two years.
The budget deficit is $26.3B as in billion.

The CA Gross State Product is $1.8T as in trillion.
You doth protest too much.

645 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:00:38pm

ALL of the States in America are beautiful and special places in their own ways, and together as a whole make this the greatest country on earth.

E Pluribus Unum

646 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:00:39pm

re: #642 WindUpBird

it's called Prop 13. Which makes it almost impossible to pass a budget because they need a crazy supermajority. That took me all of 15 seconds to google. Rewriting California's Constitiution

Sure, lets make it easier for the politicians to raise taxes. They don't have enough our money yet.

647 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:03:33pm

re: #645 Sharmuta

ALL of the States in America are beautiful and special places in their own ways, and together as a whole make this the greatest country on earth.

E Pluribus Unum

I hear that. I've been to all fifty, and they're all lovely. And the governance of them belongs to their citizens.

(Okay, I only went to one of the Dakotas, and I'm not sure which. I was either south of Dakota in North Dakota, or north of Dakota in South Dakota.

648 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:03:48pm

re: #641 Sharmuta

Aside from my sin of ommision in my first post - i think there is a lot of common ground :-)

It would be good to allow departments to keep what they save - but the deficit will remain the elephant in the room. It is too big to be "grown out of" this time, it will need aggressive measures like spending cuts, agressive economic growth and a reform of the tax code which will leave some people paying more. Even then it's going to take luck - no more Bear Sterns, now more sub-prime fall out and the commerical property market not exploding short term.

Essentially it's what the cooler heads on Bloomberg and CNBC are saying - i don't have a radical position on this. It's a main stream opinion - that people want to pick at part at a time.

I've been told i only want to raise taxes, that i only want to cut and that i don't believe economic growth will have anything to do with getting out of this - when i believe all three need to happen to a lesser or greater extent.

It's really not as complicated as some people here - yourfineself excluded - would like to believe.

649 jaunte  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:03:59pm

re: #645 Sharmuta

“We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.”
-- Abraham Lincoln

650 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:07:08pm

Ah, the Ponzi Scheme that is Prop 13, the worst law ever passed in CA.

651 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:08:03pm

G'night everyone

652 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:10:55pm

re: #642 WindUpBird

it's called Prop 13. Which makes it almost impossible to pass a budget because they need a crazy supermajority. That took me all of 15 seconds to google. Rewriting California's Constitiution

From MY perspective, as a child of parents who moved to California in the early 1950's. Proposition 13 means I don't have to sell my Parents house, to pay the State taxes, when my parents are gone. I LOVE the house I was raised in. I want my kids & my sisters kids to enjoy the same environment that I grew up in. The house Dad bought in 1954 has appreciated. Frighteningly. Not as much as my best friend Jen's Mom's house has appreciated. So, how do you or I as a kid, inherit a house that Dad bought for $20,000, and is now appraised at $3,300,000 and keep it, without going bust to pay the taxes.
THAT is what Proposition 13 was about. Keeping your folks house.

653 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:11:13pm

I'm bailing this thread. There are three others happening upstream.

654 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:12:23pm

re: #649 jaunte

“We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.”
-- Abraham Lincoln

Sadly, in that case the bonds of affection did break. When they did, Lincoln had to accept the harsh measures needed to force the South back into the Union.

655 jaunte  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:13:50pm

re: #654 Dark_Falcon

I'd prefer not to have to repeat that.

656 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:16:06pm

Giraffe, well aren't your parents precious. How about they pay their fair share of the services they receive protecting and providing for that $3.3M gem? Hmmm? If Joe Blow buys the identical house next door, he pays for them. Do you care about Joe Blow? Probably not? You only care about your precious parents. Great way to run a tax system.

What about commercial real estate? Does your throw grandma out of her house argument work for commercial real estate? Did you even know that Prop 13 applies to commercial real estate?

657 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:17:03pm

re: #655 jaunte

I'd prefer not to have to repeat that.

Me too. The first Civil War was bad enough, a second one would be far worse.

658 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:18:40pm

re: #656 Olsonist

I'm sure they've paid their fair share. How about the feather bedding government union assholes take a pay cut, so they earn their fair share instead their share and a 5th of mine?

659 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:19:31pm

re: #639 albusteve

to all Californians...
stay out of New Mexico, we don't want your money or your bad attitude over here...take your tax oppressed ass to Oregon where they think you are cool and enlightened people

Steve, we've done some careful, thoughtful cost analysis. We've looked at policemen, firemen, and teachers. Then we looked at the nuclear weapons labs in NM. Given the current state of the Federal Strategic Defense Strategy, we've made a decision.

I'm sorry Steve. We're going to have to let you go.

Good luck in your next endeavor.

660 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:24:22pm

Nope, the feather bedding argument doesn't work either. Your parents got in early on the Prop 13 Ponzi Scheme so they pay next to no property taxes. They're basically stealing. The taxes on the house that my brother and sister-in-law bought went up 20 times from the level that the previous owner was grandmothered into.

They're stealing from their children.

661 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:24:39pm

re: #656 Olsonist

I hope you are never faced with this issue.
OH! Or if you are, you can just give it all up to the state.
Good luck with that.

(hint, they already took it from you.)

662 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:30:25pm

Huh? CA has treated me very well. I was well educated by its school system, finishing at the University of California at Berkeley. The opportunities in the economy have left me very well off, thank you. My mother is well taken care of. CA has been very good to me and I do not begrudge this state when I send in my taxes. Frankly, I think I got a deal.

663 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:30:45pm

re: #660 Olsonist

Wah wah wah. Cry me a river. The state is losing out on MORE freaking tax revenue. St. Jarvis was correct. Old people should be able to live in their homes without getting taxed out of the neighborhood.

Stop spending so much.

664 Racer X  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:31:32pm

re: #662 Olsonist

Huh? CA has treated me very well. I was well educated by its school system, finishing at the University of California at Berkeley. The opportunities in the economy have left me very well off, thank you. My mother is well taken care of. CA has been very good to me and I do not begrudge this state when I send in my taxes. Frankly, I think I got a deal.

I see clearly.

665 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:33:24pm

re: #664 Racer X

I see clearly.

Oh, snap!

666 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:34:35pm

re: #664 Racer X

I see clearly.

UC Berkeley is one of the top schools in the country.

It's got plenty of libertarians, too.

Just very, very few social conservatives.

667 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:35:06pm

re: #663 Racer X

More with the old people argument. So you're cool as long as your old person already owns a house. Did I get that right? But if another old person finally can buy a house after, you know, saving for it, you expect them to pay like way more than your personal favorite old person. It seems really complicated keeping track of all these favored old people. My head hurts.

I've got a simpler idea. Fairness. Treat people equally.

668 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:41:35pm

re: #667 Olsonist

More with the old people argument. So you're cool as long as your old person already owns a house. Did I get that right? But if another old person finally can buy a house after, you know, saving for it, you expect them to pay like way more than your personal favorite old person. It seems really complicated keeping track of all these favored old people. My head hurts.

I've got a simpler idea. Fairness. Treat people equally.

Good idea. We'll start by cutting the wages of the government unions to a fair market rate, not inflated crap the politiced their way to. Then we'll do a normal corporate-style review of needed positions, and see if there is any administration we can cut. After all, we can turn to cutting social programs. After all that has been done we can return to taxes.

669 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:47:25pm

re: #646 Dark_Falcon

Sure, lets make it easier for the politicians to raise taxes. They don't have enough our money yet.

The problem isn't the taxes, the problem is total gridlock. It's shortcircuiting the system. If Californians THEMSELVES vote for politicians who raise taxes, that is actually their right.

I believe in actual real representative democracy, and that's not really what's taking place in CA these days. I also wildly disagree with the proposition system.

670 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:49:14pm

re: #652 Floral Giraffe

From MY perspective, as a child of parents who moved to California in the early 1950's. Proposition 13 means I don't have to sell my Parents house, to pay the State taxes, when my parents are gone. I LOVE the house I was raised in. I want my kids & my sisters kids to enjoy the same environment that I grew up in. The house Dad bought in 1954 has appreciated. Frighteningly. Not as much as my best friend Jen's Mom's house has appreciated. So, how do you or I as a kid, inherit a house that Dad bought for $20,000, and is now appraised at $3,300,000 and keep it, without going bust to pay the taxes.
THAT is what Proposition 13 was about. Keeping your folks house.

So you get to keep your house, and the state is ruined. Cool!

671 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:49:38pm

re: #669 WindUpBird

The problem isn't the taxes, the problem is total gridlock. It's shortcircuiting the system. If Californians THEMSELVES vote for politicians who raise taxes, that is actually their right.

I believe in actual real representative democracy, and that's not really what's taking place in CA these days. I also wildly disagree with the proposition system.

I prefer gridlock to a system that gives a bunch of liberal Dems even more power to waste money.

672 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:50:40pm

re: #671 Dark_Falcon

I prefer gridlock to a system that gives a bunch of liberal Dems even more power to waste money.

So you hate Democrats enough that you advocate ruining a state with a trillion dollar GDP. Got it.

673 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:51:17pm

re: #668 Dark_Falcon

Wow, that's really impressive. Instead of counter-arguing you try to change the subject. I'm not wild about the public employee unions, especially the prison guards. But let's stick with taxes, shall we?

674 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:52:33pm

re: #671 Dark_Falcon

I prefer gridlock to a system that gives a bunch of liberal Dems even more power to waste money.

There is a reason only two other states have a giant crazy supermajority requirement. Because they don't work. They're stupid, they're folly, and they ruin the democratic process.

If conservative ideas are better, then they should actually stand up on their own, no need to rig the system to make it impossible to pass a budget. No need to play a carny game with California's legislature.

675 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:53:20pm

re: #673 Olsonist

Wow, that's really impressive. Instead of counter-arguing you try to change the subject. I'm not wild about the public employee unions, especially the prison guards. But let's stick with taxes, shall we?

I noticed that too. Sorta like a bunch of pressurized talking points that all shot out in a giant firehose stream.

676 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:54:26pm

re: #668 Dark_Falcon

Good idea. We'll start by cutting the wages of the government unions to a fair market rate, not inflated crap the politiced their way to. Then we'll do a normal corporate-style review of needed positions, and see if there is any administration we can cut. After all, we can turn to cutting social programs. After all that has been done we can return to taxes.

I have a magical deal. You get to cut union wages if I get to rid us of the supermajority requirement. Deal? 8-)

677 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 10:59:06pm

re: #673 Olsonist

Wow, that's really impressive. Instead of counter-arguing you try to change the subject. I'm not wild about the public employee unions, especially the prison guards. But let's stick with taxes, shall we?

OK then here's my position: I won't support any large new taxes, ever. I'd prefer that a state default rather than do that. Cali's taxes are too high already (PS, I live in Illinois).

678 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 11:00:15pm

re: #677 Dark_Falcon

Why do you say they're too high? Are you making a statement about the Laffer curve, or is this an ideological position, not a practical one?

679 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 11:05:34pm

re: #678 Obdicut

Why do you say they're too high? Are you making a statement about the Laffer curve, or is this an ideological position, not a practical one?

It's an ideological position, I admit that.

680 Olsonist  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 11:08:08pm

re: #677 Dark_Falcon

... Cali's taxes are too high already...

Ok, but that's not an argument for Prop 13. The result of Prop 13 has not been a decline in property taxes. Property tax revenues have stayed level. Instead Prop 13 has shifted the property tax burden from one shared equally to one disproportionately paid by the young and the newly arrived.

Ponzi Scheme.

681 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 11:08:08pm

re: #679 Dark_Falcon

It's an ideological position, I admit that.

Okay. What is the ideological difference between being taxed at N and being taxed at N+4?

682 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 11:16:41pm

re: #681 Obdicut

Okay. What is the ideological difference between being taxed at N and being taxed at N+4?

I find that a hard question to answer. My opposition to new taxes is based on two things:

1. A feeling that Cali rates are two high now. Feel that further hikes will cause people and businesses to flee and will make life very hard for those the state needs to produce.

2. I feel that giving government more money will do no good, since such money always goes to spending and not debt reduction. Government cannot be trusted.

Please post any replies, I'll read them in the morning.

683 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 7, 2009 11:18:05pm

re: #682 Dark_Falcon

Your first argument is one about the Laffer curve-- it implies that you think we're over on the right hand side. Such a belief requires proof, since the curve is, in fact, a curve.

Your second one is confusing. Is there a reason to be focusing on debt reduction?

If you feel that government can't be trusted, do you want to live in anarchy?

684 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 4:39:54am

re: #682 Dark_Falcon

Point two is nihilistic - the pure consumer economy is not going to generate the extra revenues at current or any level in the mimmediate future to pay down the national debt - and will only go part way to closing the budget deficit.

Government - and congress with power of the putrse to start cutting is part of government - and they need to man up/woman up and start taking decisive action.

685 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 6:02:57am

re: #648 wozzablog

well, forgive me for being a deficit hawk.

686 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 7:48:02am

re: #530 wozzablog

It's one i'm looking forward to immensely - the shake out for the sould of the Republican party is happening down there.

Rubio has tea baggers and culture cons, Crist has the thinking centre and a large personal vote he'll carry over from being a popular centrist governor.

It will be a good one - but bloodsport by the end i fear.

Hi Wozz, if you're still reading. I hit the sack last night.

Bloodsport fer sure! I'm voting for this guy [Link: www.kendrickmeek.com...] LOVE him. Love his mother, Carrie Meek, too (he took her seat when she retired). He's my Congressman currently and I'm sad to lose him.

687 Lawrence Schmerel  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 8:19:54am

A fool and his money are soon tea partying.

688 garhighway  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 10:11:24am

re: #677 Dark_Falcon

Having your state default is a bad answer. You will NOT like what comes next. You will lose control over your state's finances to the courts, and your state will be burdened with much higher financing costs for a very long time.

689 butterick  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 10:19:10am

in its box of sky lavender and cornerless, the moonbat rattles like a fragment of angry candy - with apologies to ee cummings

690 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 8, 2009 10:29:33am

re: #686 marjoriemoon

not heard of him before - but thanks for bringing him to my notice, will keep an even more watchful eye on what unfolds now.

Looks good. He has some decent endorsements - including yours ;-)

:-)


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 Frank says:

I'd like to know who's Plunkin' the monkeys? -- It was on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. I can't remember the year maybe 10 years ago? They were talking about AIDS and how AIDS all got started, he had 3 theory's. First Frank said something about AIDS being a government test gone wrong Then maybe it was an Alien (ET) test or mistake and finally they talked about the theory of AIDS coming from a monkey and then Frank said " I'd like to know who's plunkin' the monkey's?"