Hot Air Comments of the Day

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Time for another episode of “Hot Air Comments of the Day,” a look into the pestilent sewer of hatred, racism, talk of violent overthrow of the government, calls for the murder of President Obama and “liberals” in general, and all-around evil-minded nastiness that is the Hot Air comments section.

This isn’t “cherry-picking.” Every single thread of comments at Hot Air is full of the kind of stuff you’re about to read.

Starting with someone who wants to personally take part in lynching President Obama.

I couldn’t care less what the Obamunist’s view is, I intend to put the rope around his neck when Obamunist hangs and I DARE for him or his lackeys to send anyone after me. I guarantee our military will support me in this, why?, because I work with these good folk every day.

nelsonknows on December 8, 2009 at 7:34 PM

That ought to be good for a call from the Secret Service.

Here’s someone pining for the good old days.

I miss a good lynch mob.

Shy Guy on December 9, 2009 at 1:50 PM

There are people calling for violent revolution against the US government in almost every thread, no matter what the topic.

Tick … tick … tick … it’s getting closer to the time when people will simply begin to take matters into their own hands. I hope most of the military and law enforcement will be on board.

I have no idea what Obama’s thinking, but not all people will simply accept his dictate to spend the rest of their lives in misery kissing his communist a$$.

darwin on December 9, 2009 at 3:01 PM

[…]

I find the idea that the US government should be overthrown slightly less radical and wacky than stating that prudent people suffer an unjust and unConstitutional Congress until the Supreme Court okays the Revolution.

Chris_Balsz on December 8, 2009 at 10:09 PM

[…]

Time has past for words. I’ll get back involved once the civil war begins in earnest. Most media liberals should be killed or imprisoned.

Griz on December 9, 2009 at 2:06 PM

Lots of Hot Air’s denizens think Obama is exactly like Hitler, but some of them disagree. They think Obama’s worse than Hitler.

Yes, but Hitler was able to get the Olympic games for Berlin. Obama couldn’t match that! ;-)

UltimateBob on December 9, 2009 at 12:07 PM

He also lifted Germany from a depression. Obama’s trying to plunge us further into one.

Darth Executor on December 9, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Raving misogyny is also a common theme. In a thread about Barbara Boxer:

Hey Boxhead you sick racist f**k !

I wish your parents had the same attitude back in the day about abortion as you do now!

What a c**t!!! The best part of her hit the sheets!

cableguy615 on December 8, 2009 at 9:23 PM

[…]

If only Boxer had been aborted.

Gregor on December 8, 2009 at 5:42 PM

[…]

Pfizer doesn’t half the V!@gra I’d need to sleep with Babs.

TXUS on December 8, 2009 at 6:08 PM

[…]

Abortion Kills!

And, we are NOT going to pay for the two bags that your husband has to put over your head to have sex with you, ma’am.

HornetSting on December 8, 2009 at 6:21 PM

[…]

Well said, but I would add that if your woman’s so ugly you can’t get it up, run her for the Senate of Calfornia or Maine, and get yourself a chipee like one of Tiger’s.

TXUS on December 8, 2009 at 6:40 PM

[…]

Libs are vile vermin, not only out to kill babies, but hungry for it.

Liam on December 8, 2009 at 8:51 PM

[…]

MADAME MENGELE,oops,thats,

SENATOR MADAME MENGELE !!

canopfor on December 8, 2009 at 10:09 PM

Racial slurs and comparisons to African dictators abound. A popular slur for President Obama is “Ogabe.”

No longer will “Hail to the Chief” be played when Ogabe enters the room, it will now be the theme music from ‘The Benny Hill Show’.

Bishop on December 9, 2009 at 10:56 AM

[…]

Sometimes I just want to lock the doors, pile up my food in the basement and wait it out until Ogabe is gone.

Bishop on December 9, 2009 at 11:17 AM

[…]

–Hitler only had one ball. And he’s dead.

Jimbo3 on December 9, 2009 at 12:02 PM

That’s a myth, but even if it was true, it’s one more than Ogabe has. Plus, Hillary has enough balls to replenish O’s and Adolf’s and still keep a pair for herself (Slick Willy’s).

Darth Executor on December 9, 2009 at 12:07 PM

[…]

Ogabe will sign anything and the media scumbags will proclaim it the greatest event since time began.

Bishop on December 8, 2009 at 3:46 PM

A thread about Planned Parenthood brings out the kind of people who supported anti-abortion murderer Scott Roeder:

Nazism at it’s finest………

repugnant, disgusting, foul, perverted, lying mo fo’s….

honest to god…i have less that zero sympathy for these people….none….

they get what they get and deserve it…

i will never shed a tear for abortionists…..never

JJKRN on December 9, 2009 at 2:38 PM

Ugh. Now you’ll have to excuse me while I go take a shower. Anyone still wondering why I don’t want anything to do with the right wing?

(Hat tips: KT, simoom, Alouette, Gus 802, Sharmuta.)

Jump to bottom

687 comments
1 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:34:40pm

All disgusting.

(Any ones about Boxer selling her kids to Mengele for a dollar?)

2 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:35:12pm

Always worth reposting this just for you Hot Air

Youtube Video
3 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:36:27pm

I literally can't read any more. Having family who fought Hitler, and a friend's father who was murdered while on a charitable mission in Africa, i can feel these comments belittling the real monsters who walked or walk the earth. Few things belittle the true evil that Hitler wrought like calling people Hitler. It sickened me to see Bush called Hitler, and it's just as sickening now.

4 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:36:54pm

Apparently Rush started the Ogabe thing (quick google).

It's Obama + Mugabe.

Effen ridiculous analogy.

5 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:37:03pm

Does Charles wait for me to post, and then open a new thread?

Hey Simoom,

If I ever wanted a research assistant you would be the man.

Thanks for your contributions.

Cheers

6 Bloodnok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:38:35pm
Hat tips: KT, simoom, Alouette, Gus 802, Sharmuta

Congrats! Nice work, gang.

They wade so we don't have to.

7 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:39:36pm

re: #4 Ben Hur

Apparently Rush started the Ogabe thing (quick google).

It's Obama + Mugabe.

Effen ridiculous analogy.

Oh, but Rush would never-ever say anything racist. It's just a joke, right?
/you know that's exactly what his apologists would say.

8 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:39:53pm

Want some sanity? Try
The Modern Whig Party

9 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:40:21pm

re: #8 Ojoe

Want some sanity? Try
The Modern Whig Party


/your late...

10 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:40:49pm

pretty funny on the one hand...not so much on the other...half of these posters are probably diaper wearing college freshman that obviously have all the solutions

11 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:41:10pm

re: #9 brookly red

Someday I'll hit the top of a thread with that.

12 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:41:35pm

re: #7 iceweasel

Oh, but Rush would never-ever say anything racist. It's just a joke, right?
/you know that's exactly what his apologists would say.

It's what I would say if I thought it to be the case.

Mugabe, who for some reason is hated by the Europeans who love/d Arafat and PLO/Hamas is EVIL.

13 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:43:38pm

re: #10 albusteve

pretty funny on the one hand...not so much on the other...half of these posters are probably diaper wearing college freshman that obviously have all the solutions

I would think that most college freshmen would be more to the left, but it dosen't really matter. How many of them vote, that matters.

14 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:44:02pm

re: #10 albusteve

pretty funny on the one hand...not so much on the other...half of these posters are probably diaper wearing college freshman that obviously have all the solutions

Doubtful that this is a bunch of kids. I'd put my money on diaper wearing geezers.

15 Canadhimmis  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:44:10pm

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

16 Cokezero  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:45:12pm

OT, but worth looking at: [Link: www.gocomics.com...]

17 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:45:28pm

re: #14 drcordell

Doubtful that this is a bunch of kids. I'd put my money on diaper wearing geezers.

whoever they are, nobody will "DARE" mess with them...hohoho

18 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:45:40pm
Ugh. Now you’ll have to excuse me while I go take a shower. Anyone still wondering why I don’t want anything to do with the right wing?

Is this vile dreck the flavour of the week?
No thanks, I'll pass.

19 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:46:45pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

not much...vile words like this transcend political parties...people just riffin the internet

20 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:46:50pm

re: #17 albusteve

whoever they are, nobody will "DARE" mess with them...hohoho

I think someone just did...

21 Blueheron  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:47:22pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

You are correct about that. So who were they then, surely not right wing? What's right wing or left wing anyway? I think we need a new word for these nuts of all stripes.
Any one have any ideas?

22 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:47:36pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

No, it wasn't a "hollywood mainstream production." It was an independent film that wasn't even released in U.S. theaters. The difference between Bush being labeled Hitler by left-wing crazies during his administration, and what is going on now is huge.

The people holding up Bush = Hitler signs were fringe anti-war protesters. People who had no platform to spread their views, and whose protests were widely ignored by the media at large. This seething Obama hatred is being pushed 24/7 by Fox News, and dozens upon dozens of right-wing radio hatespeakers. There is absolutely nothing analogous between the two situations.

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:47:37pm

re: #8 Ojoe

Want some sanity? Try
The Modern Whig Party

"Real Roman bread, for real Romans!"

24 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:47:42pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

I thought that movie was British or Canadian.

25 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:47:47pm

re: #16 Cokezero

Funny.

26 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:48:03pm

re: #20 brookly red

I think someone just did...

here's looking at you, 'nelsonknows'

27 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:48:21pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

Not much difference, except that was then and this is now. It was disgusting then and it is disgusting now.

28 OneMonkeysUncle  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:48:51pm

Tangentially related: the commenters at Michelle "Our Lady of the Immaculate Internment Camp" Malkin's eponymous site are just as bad, if what you're looking for is written proof that there's a dangerously deluded population out there... The mob there is particularly Christianist (which is not the same thing as "Christian," and yes, I do mean it as an insult, so feel to get your diaper in a bundle). The former Ms. Malagong came full circle and dropped in on ex-half-governer Palin's bus book tour, which has her minions in a predictable tizzy of incoherence today...

29 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:49:02pm

re: #24 iceweasel

I thought that movie was British or Canadian.

It was done by a British director and screened at a Toronto film festival.

30 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:49:02pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

And all of that was denounced then at LGF like it's being denounced now.

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:49:04pm

re: #24 iceweasel

I thought that movie was British or Canadian.

It was British. Also disgusting. But not a 'mainsteam Hollywood production' in any way, shape or form.

32 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:49:24pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

I can't figure out why you would want to post this comment. Do you see a need to find an equivalent fact that makes "the other side" look just as bad? Do you think you found it?

33 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:49:42pm

I found this kind of threats and language disturbing when it was directed at George W. Bush and I continue to find it equally distressing when directed at at Barack Obama. What I don't find is that the side that slung it was any less vile than the other.

34 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:49:43pm

re: #22 drcordell

No, it wasn't a "hollywood mainstream production." It was an independent film that wasn't even released in U.S. theaters. The difference between Bush being labeled Hitler by left-wing crazies during his administration, and what is going on now is huge.

The people holding up Bush = Hitler signs were fringe anti-war protesters. People who had no platform to spread their views, and whose protests were widely ignored by the media at large. This seething Obama hatred is being pushed 24/7 by Fox News, and dozens upon dozens of right-wing radio hatespeakers. There is absolutely nothing analogous between the two situations.

Such BS.

It wasn't THAT long ago.

35 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:49:51pm

re: #24 iceweasel

I thought that movie was British or Canadian.

It was shown in Canada IIRC, but I think it was made in the USA but not by a major studio. Could be wrong.

36 Cineaste  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:50:32pm

OT and reposted from the previous thread:

Off thread but here is the dumbest move of congress today:

Congress is trying to regulate the college football playoffs.

Do your f-ing job people! What on god's green earth does the college football championships have to do with congress? I thought the same thing when Bush (the younger) brought up baseball and steroids in a state of the union address.

37 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:50:38pm

re: #29 drcordell

It was done by a British director and screened at a Toronto film festival.

Ah, thanks. Accounts for my garbled memory.
re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

It was British. Also disgusting. But not a 'mainsteam Hollywood production' in any way, shape or form.

That's what I thought; thanks.

38 Neutral President  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:51:43pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

The difference is that was then and this is now. There is no point in harping on shit that happened 5 years ago unless you wish to use it as an excuse for current behavior. "But... but... They did it too!!11!!1" is not a valid excuse for vile behavior. You also have to be really in denial to think that it's not just a little worse now too.

39 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:51:49pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

Actually, that movie you're talking about isn't a Hollywood "mainstream" production. It was an all British movie.

40 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:52:20pm

re: #29 drcordell

It was done by a British director and screened at a Toronto film festival.


Thanks. do you recall where it was filmed?

41 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:52:43pm

re: #34 Ben Hur

Such BS.

It wasn't THAT long ago.

When it occurred isn't the issue here. You honestly think there is equivalence between some dirty dreadlocked G9 protester holding up a sign showing Bush as Hitler, and someone with a nationally syndicated radio show drawing analogies between Obama and Mugabe. Or Glenn Beck's national cable television program drawing direct comparisons between the Obama Administration and the third reich?

You can't see the difference between these things?

42 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:52:51pm

I knew someone would try to say it was just as bad on the left when Bush was president.

No. It wasn't. I followed all of the worst stuff the left said about Bush, and yes, there was plenty of hatred directed at him.

But what's going on with the right wing is WAY beyond the worst of the left, and it's not on the fringes. It's the mainstream right wing doing it.

43 akarra  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:53:11pm

I hope that Hot Air demonstrates some sense of shame, and one of these days cracks down on comments like the ones posted.

I know it's a faint hope - Hot Air has been shown allowing this sort of awfulness to fester before, and done virtually nothing. But I can't fathom what is to be gained by tolerating the hatred above.

44 avanti  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:53:26pm

While I agree with Charles that reasonable people should abhor such comments, it needs to be said that it does not represent the entire "right wing". Sadly, it seems to be a big part of it, but there are still sane conservatives out there, some right here on LGF.

45 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:53:39pm

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

It was British. Also disgusting. But not a 'mainsteam Hollywood production' in any way, shape or form.

The hatred of many in the British media for the US "establishment" cannot be overstated. Of course things are better now that Obama has been crowned King of the World.

46 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:54:08pm

re: #43 akarra

I hope that Hot Air demonstrates some sense of shame, and one of these days cracks down on comments like the ones posted.

I know it's a faint hope - Hot Air has been shown allowing this sort of awfulness to fester before, and done virtually nothing. But I can't fathom what is to be gained by tolerating the hatred above.

What would be left of their site if the did crack down? There would be nothing to preserve if they stripped away the filth.

47 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:54:27pm

re: #32 wrenchwench

I can't figure out why you would want to post this comment. Do you see a need to find an equivalent fact that makes "the other side" look just as bad? Do you think you found it?

In every single Hot Air Comments of the day thread, someone always pops up with some sort of "but look what teh horrible left said blahblahblah", usually within the first 20 comments.

48 Blueheron  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:54:31pm

re: #42 Charles

I knew someone would try to say it was just as bad on the left when Bush was president.

No. It wasn't. I followed all of the worst stuff the left said about Bush, and yes, there was plenty of hatred directed at him.

But what's going on with the right wing is WAY beyond the worst of the left, and it's not on the fringes. It's the mainstream right wing doing it.

That is sad. It truly is.

49 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:55:53pm

re: #40 brookly red

Thanks. do you recall where it was filmed?

It was filmed in Chicago apparently. Here is a link to the IMBD page for more info: [Link: www.imdb.com...]

50 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:55:57pm

re: #42 Charles

I knew someone would try to say it was just as bad on the left when Bush was president.

No. It wasn't. I followed all of the worst stuff the left said about Bush, and yes, there was plenty of hatred directed at him.

But what's going on with the right wing is WAY beyond the worst of the left, and it's not on the fringes. It's the mainstream right wing doing it.

It depends on here you draw the line as mainstream. For example DailyKOS had plenty of absolutely vile, racist, sexist comments about Bush. There are some who consider Kos mainstream liberal.

51 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:57:23pm

re: #49 drcordell

It was filmed in Chicago apparently. Here is a link to the IMBD page for more info: [Link: www.imdb.com...]

Thanks.

Chicago Huh? Nawww, it couldn't be LOL

52 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:57:46pm

Thanks for the h/t Charles, and the blog link. :)

That was dirty work. Next time, I may descend into the depths of Free Republic, but I have to take my hazmat suit in for maintenance.

53 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:57:52pm

re: #41 drcordell

When it occurred isn't the issue here. You honestly think there is equivalence between some dirty dreadlocked G9 protester holding up a sign showing Bush as Hitler, and someone with a nationally syndicated radio show drawing analogies between Obama and Mugabe. Or Glenn Beck's national cable television program drawing direct comparisons between the Obama Administration and the third reich?

You can't see the difference between these things?

Right.

The media were all Bushbots in lockstep with their leader.

It's BS, but since you probably agreed with what was being spewed, it wasn't so bad.

It was worse, and did a lot of damage.

Al Gore almost had a stroke screaming about it.

And I'm sorry, but Birth Certificate freaks do not rise to the level of accusing a president of murdering 3000 of his own people.

You are aware that Bush didn't declare martial law, yes?

Or that there aren't congressmen claiming that Obama has Osama in the closet for some sort of surprise.

Please.

54 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:58:30pm

re: #50 Big Steve

It depends on here you draw the line as mainstream. For example DailyKOS had plenty of absolutely vile, racist, sexist comments about Bush. There are some who consider Kos mainstream liberal.

what is mainstream is a big question to me...we will know more in the next couple of election cycles

55 SixDegrees  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:58:45pm

re: #43 akarra

I hope that Hot Air demonstrates some sense of shame, and one of these days cracks down on comments like the ones posted.

I know it's a faint hope - Hot Air has been shown allowing this sort of awfulness to fester before, and done virtually nothing. But I can't fathom what is to be gained by tolerating the hatred above.

HA is simply following their business model - go after a niche audience and stir up as many clicks as possible by being as outrageous and over-the-top as can be. And outdo the Left's awful behavior under the mistaken premise that it was that odiousness that led to election victories.

Yes, it's not a workable model. Yes, the slime spewed by the Left wound up costing them elections, and they only won one when they started locking their crazy cousins in the closet. But it's deliberate and quite conscious behavior on HA's part, and they're not going to stop it until they drain their current sugar daddy of dough.

56 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:59:06pm

re: #50 Big Steve

It depends on here you draw the line as mainstream. For example DailyKOS had plenty of absolutely vile, racist, sexist comments about Bush. There are some who consider Kos mainstream liberal.

IIRC, HuffPo had really vile comments about Cheney and others like TOny Snow, they had to shut off comments.

When we've had news about illnesses on either side of the aisle, Charles has always deleted mean and cruel comments, and banned people. That sort of stuff has never been tolerated at LGF from either side. Charles is absolutely correct to maintain that civility here as he always has.

57 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:59:54pm

re: #53 Ben Hur


And I'm sorry, but Birth Certificate freaks do not rise to the level of accusing a president of murdering 3000 of his own people.

Um, Troothers didn't have Democratic congressmen sponsoring bills to pander to them. Nirthers do!

58 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:59:56pm

re: #41 drcordell

And calling Bush a fascist war criminal on lefty talk shows on the tv/radio is different, you know, because he was one!

What's crazier? That Bush caused Katrina? Documentaries by HOLLYWOOD INSIDERS that he ordered the army to blow the levies?

Or that Obama can stop hurricanes with his presence?

59 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:00:18pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

So far, President Obama hasn't established "free speech zones" (fenced pens) several blocks away from where he speaks as bush did. Nor has President Obama required people attending his rallies to sign "loyalty oaths" upon their entrance (a way of cataloging those who attended). And during the bush presidency, nobody (left or right) was bold enough to show up with a loaded weapon in plain sight. Granted, many people called bush a war criminal, and many still do--the rationale for invading Iraq has been shown to be a lie several times over. Was it right to call bush 'Hitler'? No. But did we ever really see much of that on the news? Hell no.

60 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:00:19pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

IIRC, HuffPo had really vile comments about Cheney and others like TOny Snow, they had to shut off comments.

When we've had news about illnesses on either side of the aisle, Charles has always deleted mean and cruel comments, and banned people. That sort of stuff has never been tolerated at LGF from either side. Charles is absolutely correct to maintain that civility here as he always has.

I know I cannot be left unsupervised

61 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:00:34pm

re: #55 SixDegrees

HA is simply following their business model - go after a niche audience and stir up as many clicks as possible by being as outrageous and over-the-top as can be. And outdo the Left's awful behavior under the mistaken premise that it was that odiousness that led to election victories.

Yes, it's not a workable model. Yes, the slime spewed by the Left wound up costing them elections, and they only won one when they started locking their crazy cousins in the closet. But it's deliberate and quite conscious behavior on HA's part, and they're not going to stop it until they drain their current sugar daddy of dough.

You're right. Democratic Underground has managed to survive on the same disgusting bullshit as Hot Air. I don't like it at all, but evidently it's a model that works for some web sites (and some people).

62 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:00:53pm

re: #57 iceweasel

Um, Troothers didn't have Democratic congressmen sponsoring bills to pander to them. Nirthers do!

There are truthers in congress, and until recently one working in the WH.

63 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:01:16pm

Tu Quoque Mart™

64 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:01:30pm

What is disgusting to me is that, most likely, those commentors on Hot Air were the same ones that raged against those on the left that made similar comments. Of course, as Charles has pointed out, the comments the left made against Bush were not from the "mainstream" part of the left. You didn't see such actions and words positively shown on CNN, MSNBC, etc.

Unfortunately, the exact same behavior that the right decried against Bush is being pushed by themselves against Obama. And they are using promiment right-wing media outlets (Rush, Fox News, etc) to push it. Disgusting.

OT: Panel votes to censure Sanford, but against impechment

A House panel has voted against a resolution impeaching Gov. Mark Sanford for abandoning his duties and abuse of power, all but closing the door on lawmakers removing Sanford from office.

The seven-member panel, instead, voted unanimously to censure Sanford, which means the General Assembly would admonish Sanford for his behavior. But, Sanford would get to serve the rest of his term, which has roughly one year remaining.

Looks like creationist Sanford gets off of impechment, but he could still face criminal charges for his Argentine tryst.

65 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:02:00pm

re: #62 Ben Hur

There are truthers in congress, and until recently one working in the WH.

That's bullshit. Van Jones was NOT a truther, and asking reasonable questions about failures in intelligence prior to 9-11 is NOT trutherism.

66 SixDegrees  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:02:39pm

re: #57 iceweasel

Um, Troothers didn't have Democratic congressmen sponsoring bills to pander to them. Nirthers do!

No. They just had John Conyers holding mock war crimes trials in the Congressional Office Building, and sponsoring bills to have Congress hold real ones.

67 akarra  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:02:48pm

re: #46 drcordell

What would be left of their site if the did crack down? There would be nothing to preserve if they stripped away the filth.

I wonder if a few right-wing bloggers are actually tempted to take that argument seriously. They might feel their job is to generate outrage, which seems to be effective in at least putting politicians on the defensive in certain circumstances. I know some bloggers who don't run sites as large as Hot Air who definitely think the most important the thing they do is contribute to an echo chamber - the point is to get the story they want out there, with their sentiment. 'Repeat the process enough and maybe you'll find yourself in power' seems to be the logic.

Not to be corny, but the most awesome thing about being online is the sheer variety stuff one can find and share. There's a real need for a right-wing blog that links to a lot of neat stuff (that isn't mindlessly political) and doesn't countenance white supremacists and other degenerates and radicals.

68 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:03:35pm

re: #66 SixDegrees

No. They just had John Conyers holding mock war crimes trials in the Congressional Office Building, and sponsoring bills to have Congress hold real ones.

I had forgot about that one...

69 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:04:10pm

re: #66 SixDegrees

No. They just had John Conyers holding mock war crimes trials in the Congressional Office Building, and sponsoring bills to have Congress hold real ones.

That doesn't count.

70 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:04:37pm

re: #58 Ben Hur

And calling Bush a fascist war criminal on lefty talk shows on the tv/radio is different, you know, because he was one!

What's crazier? That Bush caused Katrina? Documentaries by HOLLYWOOD INSIDERS that he ordered the army to blow the levies?

Or that Obama can stop hurricanes with his presence?

It wasn't that bush 'caused' Katrina. It's that he ignored the storm and its effects for four days before doing a 20,000 ft flyover where he posed for cameras "looking concerned out the window" that pissed people off. That, and "heckuva job Brownie", for starters.

71 SixDegrees  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:04:39pm

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

That doesn't count.

Oh. My bad.

72 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:04:59pm

And suddenly, Hollywood, that voice of moralism that was travelling the world assuring the world that THEY didn't vote for Bush, he's not OUR president, etc etc isn't relevant.

They're now born again Americans, who can't understand that the crap they syndicate all over the world including to the most "conservative" countries on Earth, can possibly be the reason "they" hate us.

Half the world thinks that Americans say hello by having sex.

The Scandanavians feel left out.

73 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:05:17pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

If you read here at the time, you'd see that Charles wasn't happy about that either.

Charles calls him like he sees em.

74 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:05:40pm

re: #66 SixDegrees

No. They just had John Conyers holding mock war crimes trials in the Congressional Office Building, and sponsoring bills to have Congress hold real ones.

I'm sorry, but criticism of the war isn't the same as trootherism.

The fringe right has taken over the GOP and mainstreamed its nutty messages in a way that the fringe left never did to the Dem party.

75 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:05:54pm

re: #72 Ben Hur

Half the world thinks that Americans say hello by having sex.

Que?

76 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:06:13pm

re: #59 darthstar

So far, President Obama hasn't established "free speech zones" (fenced pens) several blocks away from where he speaks as bush did. Nor has President Obama required people attending his rallies to sign "loyalty oaths" upon their entrance (a way of cataloging those who attended). And during the bush presidency, nobody (left or right) was bold enough to show up with a loaded weapon in plain sight. Granted, many people called bush a war criminal, and many still do--the rationale for invading Iraq has been shown to be a lie several times over. Was it right to call bush 'Hitler'? No. But did we ever really see much of that on the news? Hell no.

And why do you think you didn't see it on the news?

77 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:06:16pm

re: #70 darthstar

It wasn't that bush 'caused' Katrina. It's that he ignored the storm and its effects for four days before doing a 20,000 ft flyover where he posed for cameras "looking concerned out the window" that pissed people off. That, and "heckuva job Brownie", for starters.

ignored the storm and it's affects for four days?...I sorta doubt that

78 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:06:34pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

IIRC, HuffPo had really vile comments about Cheney and others like TOny Snow, they had to shut off comments.

When we've had news about illnesses on either side of the aisle, Charles has always deleted mean and cruel comments, and banned people. That sort of stuff has never been tolerated at LGF from either side. Charles is absolutely correct to maintain that civility here as he always has.

I don't think there is any argument about the decorum of this site. It is why a lot of us roost here. The question the thread poses is whether the hatred that the right is now spewing is something different than what the left spewed during Bush's administration. Are the crappy Limbaugh/Beck comment more institutionalized than what occurred on the left. I would argue that to the left Blog sites like DailyKOS are every bit as influential to them as Rush is to the Right. And I find no difference between KOS rants against Bush and HotAir rants against Obama.

79 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:06:37pm

re: #60 albusteve

I know I cannot be left unsupervised

I'm okay so long as I'm not left alone with chocolate.

80 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:06:42pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

Apparently you WERE here at the time. Lapse of memory?

81 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:07:06pm

re: #72 Ben Hur


Half the world thinks that Americans say hello by having sex.

Hello.


(by the way, sex is a wonderful thing)

82 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:07:21pm

re: #76 Ben Hur

And why do you think you didn't see it on the news?

Because it didn't happen as much as it's happening now. That's an uncomfortable truth, but it's still true.

83 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:07:26pm

re: #65 iceweasel

That's bullshit. Van Jones was NOT a truther, and asking reasonable questions about failures in intelligence prior to 9-11 is NOT trutherism.

I'd ask him myself, but he has too many bus tire-marks on his face to be able to talk.

84 recusancy  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:07:27pm

re: #77 albusteve

ignored the storm and it's affects for four days?...I sorta doubt that

He was delivering a birthday cake to John McCain when the storm hit. Then he went and played guitar at a fundraiser. It wasn't a surprise attack. We knew it was coming.

85 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:07:39pm

re: #41 drcordell

When it occurred isn't the issue here. You honestly think there is equivalence between some dirty dreadlocked G9 protester holding up a sign showing Bush as Hitler, and someone with a nationally syndicated radio show drawing analogies between Obama and Mugabe. Or Glenn Beck's national cable television program drawing direct comparisons between the Obama Administration and the third reich?

You can't see the difference between these things?

It is available on Amazon on DVD.

86 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:07:47pm

re: #75 obdicut

Que?

In my time over seas, I've met a sh*tload of people who think shows like "Friends" etc, accurately portray American culture and values and not just Hollywood culture and values.

87 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:08:06pm

re: #74 iceweasel

I'm sorry, but criticism of the war isn't the same as trootherism.

The fringe right has taken over the GOP and mainstreamed its nutty messages in a way that the fringe left never did to the Dem party.

well it is interesting to note that the wars have not gone away but the mock trials have... just asying.

88 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:08:07pm

re: #74 iceweasel

I'm sorry, but criticism of the war isn't the same as trootherism.

The fringe right has taken over the GOP and mainstreamed its nutty messages in a way that the fringe left never did to the Dem party.

that remains to be seen...there have been no elections to prove such a notion

89 akarra  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:08:10pm

re: #55 SixDegrees

HA is simply following their business model - go after a niche audience and stir up as many clicks as possible by being as outrageous and over-the-top as can be. And outdo the Left's awful behavior under the mistaken premise that it was that odiousness that led to election victories.

Yes, it's not a workable model. Yes, the slime spewed by the Left wound up costing them elections, and they only won one when they started locking their crazy cousins in the closet. But it's deliberate and quite conscious behavior on HA's part, and they're not going to stop it until they drain their current sugar daddy of dough.

Thanks - didn't think about the monetary aspect of this, and you do allude to that. It does look like being extremist generates clicks. And you're exactly right about the attempt to be a site that's genuinely influential and helps a party win, and the misguided logic driving that thought process on HA's part.

90 recusancy  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:08:33pm

re: #86 Ben Hur

In my time over seas, I've met a sh*tload of people who think shows like "Friends" etc, accurately portray American culture and values and not just Hollywood culture and values.

What's your point?

91 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:09:06pm

re: #76 Ben Hur

And why do you think you didn't see it on the news?

Because negative news about the president was akin to supporting Osama biin Laden. Those were "you're with us or against us" days. Now that bush is gone, the media feels free to openly criticize the president (which is fine, by the way).

92 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:09:11pm

re: #70 darthstar

It wasn't that bush 'caused' Katrina. It's that he ignored the storm and its effects for four days before doing a 20,000 ft flyover where he posed for cameras "looking concerned out the window" that pissed people off. That, and "heckuva job Brownie", for starters.

I'm totally convinced that only people who have lived through a hurricane, who understand the preparation, particularly the cost, all the drama and trauma, are the only ones who can really appreciate how poorly the Bush administration responded to that natural disaster.

93 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:09:13pm

re: #79 Sharmuta

I'm okay so long as I'm not left alone with chocolate.

CHOCOLATE!

me want

94 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:09:28pm

re: #87 brookly red

well it is interesting to note that the wars have not gone away but the mock trials have... just asying.

Absolutely. And some of people on the left who screamed loudest about Bush's policies have no problem when Obama continues or even expands some of those same policies.

95 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:09:41pm

re: #22 drcordell

No, it wasn't a "hollywood mainstream production." It was an independent film that wasn't even released in U.S. theaters. The difference between Bush being labeled Hitler by left-wing crazies during his administration, and what is going on now is huge.

The people holding up Bush = Hitler signs were fringe anti-war protesters. People who had no platform to spread their views, and whose protests were widely ignored by the media at large. This seething Obama hatred is being pushed 24/7 by Fox News, and dozens upon dozens of right-wing radio hatespeakers. There is absolutely nothing analogous between the two situations.

Actually, the BusHitler folks were a lot more common than you imply.

There was also the matter of an MSM journalist/opinion writer who called for a new 'John Wilkes Booth'. Then there are those on the left who insist Bush helped plan and execute 9/11- up to 30% of Dems according to some polls.

Let's recall too those on the left- lots of them- who were only too cheerful to call Colin Powell an 'Uncle Tom' as well as any other Blacks who didn't tow the progressive line. Then there was the Bush-concentration camp meme as well as the whole Medea Benjamin Code Pink farce. The list goes on.

Here's the deal: There is no shortage of stupid on either the right or the left. It can be found on the fringes and increasingly, in the centers.

No one side is immune and no one side can claim moral superiority over the other for one reason and one reason only. Unless and until each side deals with it's own filth, they are in no position to denigrate each other.

Addressing the garbage on the right (and it is garbage) in no way implies a superiority to the left. Corruption on the left is in no way less egregious than corruption on the right.

Don't demand anyone on the opposite side of your political ideologies to hang their heads in shame until you are willing to do so yourself.

You really don't get LGF. This site works because people from across the political board have a clarity that you have yet to focus in on.

96 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:09:45pm

re: #72 Ben Hur

And suddenly, Hollywood, that voice of moralism that was travelling the world assuring the world that THEY didn't vote for Bush, he's not OUR president, etc etc isn't relevant.

They're now born again Americans, who can't understand that the crap they syndicate all over the world including to the most "conservative" countries on Earth, can possibly be the reason "they" hate us.

Half the world thinks that Americans say hello by having sex.

The Scandanavians feel left out.

GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO, GO!

97 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:09:53pm

re: #70 darthstar

It wasn't that bush 'caused' Katrina. It's that he ignored the storm and its effects for four days

You absolutely know NOTHING about the Katrina response. To start you clearly don't even know the law which gives primary civil response to local authorities PERIOD.

98 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:10:37pm

re: #70 darthstar

It wasn't that bush 'caused' Katrina. It's that he ignored the storm and its effects for four days before doing a 20,000 ft flyover where he posed for cameras "looking concerned out the window" that pissed people off. That, and "heckuva job Brownie", for starters.

Right.

He ignored the storm by releasing the emergency $ at least a week (IIRC) before the storm hit, a move that at the time was unprecedented.

How much time has Obama spent there since the campaign is over?

3 hours for a fundraiser?

It's BS.

99 Blizard  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:11:00pm

What's up Lizards? Haven't been here in awhile, just logged on to say "disgusting", but many of you beat me to it.

Still, I'm disgusted. I can't think of a better word.

/back to work

100 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:11:10pm

Time to become a domestic iceweasel and make dinner! have fun, folks.

101 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:11:38pm

I guess all this back and forth is inevitable but it just seems like an endless game of ping-pong. When dealing with such huge and generalized groups such as "right" and "left" it seems very hard to claim any moral high ground.

People on there right and people on the left both do dumb shit, say dumb shit and talk out there ass. As much as I wish it were true, the right does not have a monopoly on nuttiness, fringe members and drama. I see lots of comments on here saying the "right" always does X or why does the "left" always do Y when such blanket statements can't possibly be true.

It would seem that the most honest way to go about it is to comment on behaviors and use specific examples, such as this post. Comparing our President(s) to Hitler is retarded, no matter who does it. There is no excuse. ESPECIALLY not "well they did it first!" or "they did it too"! I might as well be 8 years old in the back seat fighting with my little brother.

102 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:12:17pm

re: #42 Charles

I knew someone would try to say it was just as bad on the left when Bush was president.

No. It wasn't. I followed all of the worst stuff the left said about Bush, and yes, there was plenty of hatred directed at him.

But what's going on with the right wing is WAY beyond the worst of the left, and it's not on the fringes. It's the mainstream right wing doing it.

I disagree. I would say that the left's excoriation of Bush et al was less developed than the right's excoriation of Obama.

You can be sure the next GOP administration will be targeted like this one and more.

I really tried to come up with an evolution joke here...

103 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:12:34pm

re: #92 marjoriemoon

I'm totally convinced that only people who have lived through a hurricane, who understand the preparation, particularly the cost, all the drama and trauma, are the only ones who can really appreciate how poorly the Bush administration responded to that natural disaster.

Yep...I experienced Cyclone Tia in Fiji when I was 15 (1980)...spent three days filling fresh water bottles for villagers in our area that got wiped out by the storm. Watched people living on the side of the road with only the clothes on their backs--and not much of that, either. Truly a third world experience.

One of my good friends spent three months in NOLA after Katrina doing disaster relief aid. She is still haunted by what she saw.

104 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:12:52pm

re: #94 iceweasel

Absolutely. And some of people on the left who screamed loudest about Bush's policies have no problem when Obama continues or even expands some of those same policies.

there is enough hypocrisy to go around, no?

105 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:13:44pm

re: #98 Ben Hur

Right.

He ignored the storm by releasing the emergency $ at least a week (IIRC) before the storm hit, a move that at the time was unprecedented.

How much time has Obama spent there since the campaign is over?

3 hours for a fundraiser?

It's BS.

You're missing the point. Katrina was FOUR YEARS AGO now. Four years. And the fact that parts of New Orleans are still undeveloped is now President Obama's fault?

106 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:13:46pm

re: #82 iceweasel

Because it didn't happen as much as it's happening now. That's an uncomfortable truth, but it's still true.

I don't agree.

The media also inflated the importance of the "demonstrations" against "Bush" (quotes, because it was against the US) in Europe, etc, as if the same time of protests/riots didn't happen when Clinton (or any other American Pres) was in town - like in Greece/Seattle. (Of course the Euroleft gets more active when a Rep is office).

Then it was "We don't hate America, just Bush."

Now its "We don't hate Obama, just America."

107 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:15:26pm

re: #105 darthstar

You're missing the point. Katrina was FOUR YEARS AGO now. Four years. And the fact that parts of New Orleans are still undeveloped is now President Obama's fault?

I didn't say that.

108 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:16:02pm

re: #91 darthstar

Because negative news about the president was akin to supporting Osama biin Laden. Those were "you're with us or against us" days. Now that bush is gone, the media feels free to openly criticize the president (which is fine, by the way).

And by the way your not capitalizing Bush's name is not only childish but it is also improper English to not capitalize a proper noun.

109 SixDegrees  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:16:42pm

re: #70 darthstar

It wasn't that bush 'caused' Katrina. It's that he ignored the storm and its effects for four days before doing a 20,000 ft flyover where he posed for cameras "looking concerned out the window" that pissed people off. That, and "heckuva job Brownie", for starters.

A friend of ours was part of a National Guard team that began organizing for deployment to Louisiana 48 hours before the storm made landfall. They arrived at the Texas/Louisiana border the day the storm hit. The spent four days sitting a few hundred yards from the border, waiting for Governor Blanco to give approval for them to enter.

Bush declared a national emergency on August 27, freeing up FEMA, DHS and other resources for a full response, two days before landfall.

If you're going to criticize, try to keep at least one foot in reality.

110 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:17:24pm

OT: I'm going to be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this Friday at 7:30 pm Pacific.

That ought to make a few more heads explode.

111 SixDegrees  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:17:35pm

re: #74 iceweasel

I'm sorry, but criticism of the war isn't the same as trootherism.

I think it's exactly the same, in this case. This went far beyond simple criticism of the war.

112 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:18:08pm

re: #105 darthstar

Better look at state and local officials. There has been a shitload of money sent to New Orleans and the surrounding areas.

113 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:18:14pm

re: #105 darthstar

You're missing the point. Katrina was FOUR YEARS AGO now. Four years. And the fact that parts of New Orleans are still undeveloped is now President Obama's fault?

The Red River Floods happened when Bill Clinton was in office. There are still rehabilitation efforts going on.

Natural disasters occur in hours or days. Reconstruction can take decades.

114 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:18:47pm

re: #110 Charles

OT: I'm going to be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this Friday at 7:30 pm Pacific.

That ought to make a few more heads explode.

Be sure and wear a tie...

115 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:18:52pm

re: #111 SixDegrees

I think it's exactly the same, in this case. This went far beyond simple criticism of the war.

There were definitely points where they intersected.

116 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:19:00pm

Hmmm...no reaction from Hot Air. Ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

117 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:19:18pm

re: #91 darthstar

Because negative news about the president was akin to supporting Osama biin Laden. Those were "you're with us or against us" days. Now that bush is gone, the media feels free to openly criticize the president (which is fine, by the way).

Have you always been in denial about the MSM being anti-Bush ever since he stole the election from the Goreacle (except for a short time after 9-11), or is this a more recent affliction?

118 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:19:26pm

re: #110 Charles

OT: I'm going to be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this Friday at 7:30 pm Pacific.

That ought to make a few more heads explode.

Give 'em hell and break a leg.

119 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:19:27pm

re: #110 Charles

OT: I'm going to be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this Friday at 7:30 pm Pacific.

That ought to make a few more heads explode.

Outstanding.

120 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:19:47pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

Hmmm...no reaction from Hot Air. Ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

Teh Left did it too!

//

121 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:20:16pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

Hmmm...no reaction from Hot Air. Ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

/maybe they are too busy with the secret service?

122 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:20:22pm

re: #108 Big Steve

And by the way your not capitalizing Bush's name is not only childish but it is also improper English to not capitalize a proper noun.

Quite telling that he/she capitalizes Usama bin Laden but not President or Bush.

123 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:20:40pm

re: #107 Ben Hur

I didn't say that.

bush is retired now. He walks his little dog and picks up its poop, and seems to be quite happy doing so. I suspect he just wants to put his whole presidency behind him now, as he wasn't exactly the most effective president we've had. I'm perfectly happy to let him go off into the sunset and disappear. And to his credit, I haven't seen him say a peep about Sarah Palin (probably because he's smart enough to see what an albatross she's become for McCain and doesn't want to have anything to do with her).

But he was slow on Katrina. He could have salvaged his legacy by creating a NOLA recovery project that created thousands of jobs, and in two years that place would have been back to normal. He chose not to.

124 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:20:45pm

re: #91 darthstar

Because negative news about the president was akin to supporting Osama biin Laden. Those were "you're with us or against us" days. Now that bush is gone, the media feels free to openly criticize the president (which is fine, by the way).

That's ridiculous.

Bush wasn't some right wing dictator silencing dissent, that the media feared in basements to get their little subversive newsletter out.

The NYTIMES was outing secret security programs for G-d's sake.

GEORGE BUSH WAS NOT THE VLADIMIR PUTIN YOU WERE LOOKING FOR.

And any argument that (most) of today's US media is not in the tank for this administration is BS.

125 SixDegrees  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:21:54pm

re: #105 darthstar

You're missing the point. Katrina was FOUR YEARS AGO now. Four years. And the fact that parts of New Orleans are still undeveloped is now President Obama's fault?

I'd say that's New Orleans' fault, and no one else's. I'll grant that the port facilities in the region are of national importance, but I don't see how much of anything else is or why it requires any action on the part of the Federal government to get anything done other than perhaps the provision of loans. I would probably even question that, given that we're talking about rebuilding a city that's sited several feet below sea level on a coast that routinely gets pummeled by hurricanes.

You wanna talk about a devastated city, let's talk about Detroit, where the ruins put those in New Orleans to shame and where Federal aid is almost entirely absent.

126 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:22:05pm

re: #110 Charles

OT: I'm going to be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this Friday at 7:30 pm Pacific.

That ought to make a few more heads explode.

Is he still affiliated with Fox? I wonder how much he's going to tolerate unkind words about his former (current?) employer.

127 recusancy  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:22:49pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Is he still affiliated with Fox? I wonder how much he's going to tolerate unkind words about his former (current?) employer.

He goes on Orielly all the time to be his liberal whipping boy.

128 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:22:53pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Is he still affiliated with Fox? I wonder how much he's going to tolerate unkind words about his former (current?) employer.

Yes, it's Fox radio. We'll see if the subject of Fox News' extremism comes up.

129 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:23:04pm

re: #123 darthstar

bush is retired now. He walks his little dog and picks up its poop, and seems to be quite happy doing so. I suspect he just wants to put his whole presidency behind him now, as he wasn't exactly the most effective president we've had. I'm perfectly happy to let him go off into the sunset and disappear. And to his credit, I haven't seen him say a peep about Sarah Palin (probably because he's smart enough to see what an albatross she's become for McCain and doesn't want to have anything to do with her).

But he was slow on Katrina. He could have salvaged his legacy by creating a NOLA recovery project that created thousands of jobs, and in two years that place would have been back to normal. He chose not to.

I don't agree.

I can agree that he should walk into the sunset, surrounded by 50 million Muslims he freed and that love him.

130 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:23:19pm

re: #123 darthstar

bush is retired now. He walks his little dog and picks up its poop, and seems to be quite happy doing so. I suspect he just wants to put his whole presidency behind him now, as he wasn't exactly the most effective president we've had. I'm perfectly happy to let him go off into the sunset and disappear. And to his credit, I haven't seen him say a peep about Sarah Palin (probably because he's smart enough to see what an albatross she's become for McCain and doesn't want to have anything to do with her).

But he was slow on Katrina. He could have salvaged his legacy by creating a NOLA recovery project that created thousands of jobs, and in two years that place would have been back to normal. He chose not to.

what a bunch of bullshit...why doesn't LA create a NO recovery project?...it's their state

131 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:23:27pm

re: #124 Ben Hur

That's ridiculous.

Bush wasn't some right wing dictator silencing dissent, that the media feared in basements to get their little subversive newsletter out.

The NYTIMES was outing secret security programs for G-d's sake.

GEORGE BUSH WAS NOT THE VLADIMIR PUTIN YOU WERE LOOKING FOR.

And any argument that (most) of today's US media is not in the tank for this administration is BS.

This sounds pretty one sided and doesn't match my experience at all. The MSM was completely in Bush's pocket after 9/11. To say anything against the administration was considered un-American. Additionally I dont see the media "in the tank" for this administration in any way, shape or form.

132 amrafel  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:23:36pm

I'm sure most of the vile comments are legit, but IIRC, Mr. Johnson once wrote about "agent provocateurs" pretending to be what they're not, in order to discredit the site owner. (That might not be the expression Mr. Johnson used, but it's the right sentiment.) I wish someone could estimate the percentage. This does not excuse the site owner from keeping the vile comments on the site, however.

133 Neutral President  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:23:40pm

re: #110 Charles

I'm curious to see if he interprets a split from the right to be equivalent to an embrace of the left. If I had a dime for every comment on LGF "fan sites" (/s) that made that implication, I could buy a house. Why does everything have to be so binary in people's minds?

134 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:23:58pm

re: #86 Ben Hur

Yeah, but Americans are seen as being very uptight about sex-- though obsessed with it, puritanically-- by much of the rest of the world.

If you're talking about the religious conservative Muslims, then yes, they don't like Hollywood much.

135 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:24:02pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

Hmmm...no reaction from Hot Air. Ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

Sort of like FistGate.

1/2 a /.

136 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:24:32pm

re: #132 amrafel

I'm sure most of the vile comments are legit, but IIRC, Mr. Johnson once wrote about "agent provocateurs" pretending to be what they're not, in order to discredit the site owner. (That might not be the expression Mr. Johnson used, but it's the right sentiment.) I wish someone could estimate the percentage. This does not excuse the site owner from keeping the vile comments on the site, however.

Oh, give me a break.

137 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:24:50pm

re: #128 Charles

Yes, it's Fox radio. We'll see if the subject of Fox News' extremism comes up.

Keep on your toes. I'm suspicious.

138 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:25:27pm

re: #103 darthstar

Yep...I experienced Cyclone Tia in Fiji when I was 15 (1980)...spent three days filling fresh water bottles for villagers in our area that got wiped out by the storm. Watched people living on the side of the road with only the clothes on their backs--and not much of that, either. Truly a third world experience.

One of my good friends spent three months in NOLA after Katrina doing disaster relief aid. She is still haunted by what she saw.

I can't imagine. I live in Miami. I go through the drill every summer.

Andrew - out of electric, water, gas, 2 weeks
Frances - out for 5 days
Katrina - out for 7 days
Wilma - out for 14 days

Since our electric (polls/wires) hadn't been changed since 1945 in our neighborhood, any little nothing storm would take out the electric. Katrina which brought the polls down completely, forcing FPL to change them or we'd still have that shitty electricity.

Not only is it worse in August when it's stifling hot, the humidity after such a storm is unbearable. Being naked isn't enough.

We don't have the flooding issue. Well in S. Miami yes, there are some low lying areas, maybe up to the car door handle, tops, but not the roof. Egads, I can't imagine.

We spend anywhere from $100-300 a summer in preparation. Generators now are upwards of $800, even for a "small" Honda pull-start like we have, like 1000ccs? amps? Mr. Moon handles that stuff hehe We got ours for $250 10 years ago. Anyway, poor families simply can't afford this. That's only part of it. There were the broken levees, the project to shore up the levees cancelled by the Bush Admin from the Clinton Admin. The Homeland Security issue, not letting food and water in. And yea, good ole Brownie.

139 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:25:37pm

Bush rebuild NO...what a childish bunch of bullshit that is...who was picked on more GWB or BO?...more bullshit

140 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:26:29pm

re: #131 Locker

This sounds pretty one sided and doesn't match my experience at all. The MSM was completely in Bush's pocket after 9/11. To say anything against the administration was considered un-American. Additionally I dont see the media "in the tank" for this administration in any way, shape or form.

So Chris Matthews telling us after President Obama was elected that it was his job to make sure this Presidency is a success isn't considered in the tank. The AP sending 11 reporters to fact check Sarah Palins book.. The MSM dropped their masks and showed themselves in campaign 2008.

141 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:26:36pm

re: #130 albusteve

what a bunch of bullshit...why doesn't LA create a NO recovery project?...it's their state

come to think about it NO wasn't even mentioned in the stimulus, was it?

142 Neutral President  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:26:51pm

re: #132 amrafel

ROFLcopter. Yeah I'm sure there are a few thousand lefty Mobys over there doing all of this.

Do you have some land in Florida to sell as well?

143 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:26:57pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Keep on your toes. I'm suspicious.

Colmes has linked to LGF several times recently.

But I'm always wary when I do interviews. Too many times, they want to stage an ambush of one kind or another. I can understand why some people have a 'no interviews' policy.

144 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:27:12pm

re: #128 Charles

Yes, it's Fox radio. We'll see if the subject of Fox News' extremism comes up.

Be sure to beat up Hannity, Napolitano and Jones.

145 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:27:44pm

re: #125 SixDegrees

I'd say that's New Orleans' fault, and no one else's. I'll grant that the port facilities in the region are of national importance, but I don't see how much of anything else is or why it requires any action on the part of the Federal government to get anything done other than perhaps the provision of loans. I would probably even question that, given that we're talking about rebuilding a city that's sited several feet below sea level on a coast that routinely gets pummeled by hurricanes.

You wanna talk about a devastated city, let's talk about Detroit, where the ruins put those in New Orleans to shame and where Federal aid is almost entirely absent.

The Ninth Ward of New Orleans is one of the places that has not benefitted from a good cleanup and reconstruction since Katrina. I know a good number of people from the Ninth Ward. If I told you how a lot of those people down there viewed their neighborhood, you would scream that I am some sort of bigot. Let's say some of them are happy still being coddled by the aid that does come in, and they will milk it for all it's worth. SOme of those folk don't want all the help to ever end.

146 badger1970  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:28:29pm

re: #110 Charles

OT: I'm going to be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this Friday at 7:30 pm Pacific.

That ought to make a few more heads explode.

May I be so bold to inquire as to the topics discussed?

147 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:28:36pm

Theres this story from my work...


I work in a home for disabled adults, and one of our staff was just AWFUL. She worked nights, and would never do any of her state-mandated documentation. Beyond that, she wouldn't even do basic things like bathe the residents or give them their breakfast.

Now her first response when the management would go after her was always to say 'but the swing didn't do this!' or 'the day didn't do that!' Unfortunately, the bad manager we had then fell for this 'logic' and would give her more chances to fix her behavior to be sure they were treating her fairly. Eventually, of course she escalated to not bothering to show up for shifts, and was fired.


Now, I hope that the hot air apologists (lol, I can't believe I'm even SAYING that) can get the point of my story... Actually this is the 'net, so I'll lay out BOTH points.

1) Saying 'but they did it too!' is absolutely meaningless as far as trying to lessen the wrongs of the people you're defending (and again remember who you're defending here... You're defending christianists (good term!) and nirthers). Its also childish.

2) People who take that position are often telling themselves that they're actually in the right, and often escalate.

...

I still can't believe people on here are going out of their way to defend Hot Air and its ilk.

148 recusancy  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:28:40pm

re: #140 soxfan4life

So Chris Matthews telling us after President Obama was elected that it was his job to make sure this Presidency is a success isn't considered in the tank. The AP sending 11 reporters to fact check Sarah Palins book.. The MSM dropped their masks and showed themselves in campaign 2008.

He's a pundit. Palin's a media cash cow. They follow the money. Controversy makes money. '01-'05 ish creating controversy was seen as unpatriotic. Now we're back to the usual.

149 Blueheron  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:28:41pm

re: #110 Charles

OT: I'm going to be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this Friday at 7:30 pm Pacific.

That ought to make a few more heads explode.

Any chance you could stream it here at LGF?

150 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:28:44pm

re: #141 brookly red

come to think about it NO wasn't even mentioned in the stimulus, was it?

BO hates NO!

151 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:28:52pm

re: #131 Locker

This sounds pretty one sided and doesn't match my experience at all. The MSM was completely in Bush's pocket after 9/11. To say anything against the administration was considered un-American. Additionally I dont see the media "in the tank" for this administration in any way, shape or form.

Were in his pocket after 9/11?

The country was just attacked and and the nation got behind him.

The media and the Dems were behind him until he climbed on top of the rubble with the fireman and chants of USA! USA!

At that moment the Dems saw his re-election.

That support dissappeared very quickly and was drowned in the spittle on Tom Daschle's purple tie during his unhinged "OUTRAGEOUS! OUTRAGEOUS!" spasm.

And this:

"He betrayed this country!" "He played on our fears. He took America on an ill-conceived foreign adventure dangerous to our troops, an adventure preordained and planned before 9/11 ever took place."

of course happened shortly thereafter.

152 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:29:11pm
153 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:29:28pm

re: #134 obdicut

Yeah, but Americans are seen as being very uptight about sex-- though obsessed with it, puritanically-- by much of the rest of the world.

If you're talking about the religious conservative Muslims, then yes, they don't like Hollywood much.

Or Madison Avenue.

154 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:29:47pm

re: #140 soxfan4life

So Chris Matthews telling us after President Obama was elected that it was his job to make sure this Presidency is a success isn't considered in the tank. The AP sending 11 reporters to fact check Sarah Palins book.. The MSM dropped their masks and showed themselves in campaign 2008.

11 reporters out of 4,700+ It's called 'divide and conquer'...40 pages each, and the book is fact-checked in an afternoon. And it doesn't take much fact checking to tell when Sarah's handlers are lying and signing her name to it. When this all does blow up in her face eventually, she'll be able to ghost-write another book called "Going Roguer: How I was used as a tool."

155 recusancy  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:30:11pm

re: #152 ArdentCapitalist

RE: Polls

156 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:30:19pm

re: #123 darthstar

bush is retired now. He walks his little dog and picks up its poop, and seems to be quite happy doing so. I suspect he just wants to put his whole presidency behind him now, as he wasn't exactly the most effective president we've had. I'm perfectly happy to let him go off into the sunset and disappear. And to his credit, I haven't seen him say a peep about Sarah Palin (probably because he's smart enough to see what an albatross she's become for McCain and doesn't want to have anything to do with her).

But he was slow on Katrina. He could have salvaged his legacy by creating a NOLA recovery project that created thousands of jobs, and in two years that place would have been back to normal. He chose not to.

Last time I check, George Bush was neither the mayor of New Orleans nor the governor of Louisiana.

157 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:30:21pm

re: #152 ArdentCapitalist

You've got your hands on some really good weed.

Really good.

158 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:30:48pm

re: #149 Blueheron

Any chance you could stream it here at LGF?

I second that...

159 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:30:56pm

re: #154 darthstar

She is not even news worthy, if they let it go she would fizzle out.

160 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:31:10pm

re: #147 windsagio
oh yeah, also defending racists.

161 Blueheron  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:31:25pm

re: #123 darthstar

bush is retired now. He walks his little dog and picks up its poop, and seems to be quite happy doing so. I suspect he just wants to put his whole presidency behind him now, as he wasn't exactly the most effective president we've had. I'm perfectly happy to let him go off into the sunset and disappear. And to his credit, I haven't seen him say a peep about Sarah Palin (probably because he's smart enough to see what an albatross she's become for McCain and doesn't want to have anything to do with her).

But he was slow on Katrina. He could have salvaged his legacy by creating a NOLA recovery project that created thousands of jobs, and in two years that place would have been back to normal. He chose not to.

He hasn't said a peep about Obama either.

162 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:31:26pm

re: #156 MandyManners

Last time I check, George Bush was neither the mayor of New Orleans nor the governor of Louisiana.

And your point is...?

163 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:31:46pm

re: #156 MandyManners

Last time I check, George Bush was neither the mayor of New Orleans nor the governor of Louisiana.

But it is still all his fault.///

164 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:31:59pm

re: #152 ArdentCapitalist

fuck off

165 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:32:14pm

re: #155 recusancy

RE: Polls

Shhh...wingnuts can't hear stuff like that.

166 bosforus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:32:54pm

re: #152 ArdentCapitalist

TL;DR

167 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:32:56pm

re: #152 ArdentCapitalist

/facepalm

168 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:33:09pm

re: #151 Ben Hur

Were in his pocket after 9/11?

The country was just attacked and and the nation got behind him.

The media and the Dems were behind him until he climbed on top of the rubble with the fireman and chants of USA! USA!

At that moment the Dems saw his re-election.

That support dissappeared very quickly and was drowned in the spittle on Tom Daschle's purple tie during his unhinged "OUTRAGEOUS! OUTRAGEOUS!" spasm.

And this:

"He betrayed this country!" "He played on our fears. He took America on an ill-conceived foreign adventure dangerous to our troops, an adventure preordained and planned before 9/11 ever took place."

of course happened shortly thereafter.

It's hard to even consider what you say when it's packed with this much assumption and implied inside knowledge of what the "dems" were thinking and doing. You seem to have forgotten this dialog is about the Media.

I would like to say though, that the left was willing to support Bush until Iraq. Not standing on rubble, not because they were scared of his re-election, because we shifted our entire military focus from chasing and catching the guys who attacked us to an invented threat in Iraq. Period.

169 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:33:14pm

re: #157 researchok

You've got your hands on some really good weed.

Really good.

you disagree then...stand around and watch what happens, the ball is rolling and it has nothing to do with weed

170 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:33:17pm

re: #156 MandyManners

Last time I check, George Bush was neither the mayor of New Orleans nor the governor of Louisiana.

Thank god for small favors.

171 doubter4444  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:34:12pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

I'm so fucking sick of this rationalization.
It MAY have been somewhat similar when all this started, but now this stuff goes way, way past even the most deranged lefties against Bush.
You don't seem to care that this is an EVERY DAY occurrence now and the violent remarks is getting worse and worse.

172 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:34:39pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

And your point is...?

On the top of my head.

173 all4one  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:34:41pm

Only thing is...
We assume that the small numbers of people who post on sites like Hot Air are just a tiny fraction of all the people who feel just like they do but don't frequent the blogosphere. But what is that assumption is wrong, what if the blogosphere is partly responsible for creating that level of hate, and the posters represent a significant fraction of all the people who feel that way? If that's the case, we're spending time reading the rants of a handful of nuts who could fit into an elementary school auditorium. Wishful thinking?

174 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:34:49pm

re: #164 Big Steve

fuck off

nice

175 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:34:52pm

re: #62 Ben Hur

There are truthers in congress, and until recently one working in the WH.

Just keep on lying, dude. Lies are easy!

176 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:35:18pm

re: #174 albusteve


Classy too.

177 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:35:49pm

re: #109 SixDegrees

A friend of ours was part of a National Guard team that began organizing for deployment to Louisiana 48 hours before the storm made landfall. They arrived at the Texas/Louisiana border the day the storm hit. The spent four days sitting a few hundred yards from the border, waiting for Governor Blanco to give approval for them to enter.

Bush declared a national emergency on August 27, freeing up FEMA, DHS and other resources for a full response, two days before landfall.

If you're going to criticize, try to keep at least one foot in reality.

Blanco and Nagin ignored the storm and warnings BEFORE the storm hit. And afterward, between them, they dithered and napped and wept and travelled to Texas while New Orleans residents suffered and ended up being taken care of by Houston and other cities, while Nagin went to Dallas and purchased a home, if I recall correctly, just after the storm.

178 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:36:02pm

re: #152 ArdentCapitalist

I like most of what you posted but, refering to an African-American man as a "boy" is ill-advised, to say the least.

179 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:36:07pm

re: #164 Big Steve

fuck off

He did, everything you believe in.

180 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:36:31pm

Whoa, a 9.9 out of 10 WTF moment! Someone sent me this via email.

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

181 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:36:46pm

re: #156 MandyManners

Last time I check, George Bush was neither the mayor of New Orleans nor the governor of Louisiana.

No, Bush only fucked up FEMA.

Last time *I* checked, the Mayor wasn't FEMA.

182 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:36:47pm

re: #157 researchok

You've got your hands on some really good weed.

Really good.

And what particular point that I pointed out do you believe was influenced by my hands being upon a really good invasive plant? While the conservatives certainly do have their fringe elements who argue that the time is near for violent coup of the U.S. government, I was merely pointing out that the current economic policies have had a huge impact on Obama's approval ratings, as well as the Congress. If there's going to be any kind of overthrow in this nation, it will be by a sweep of the Congress in 2010 by folks who campaign upon a renewed sense of economic conservatism. Also, I see it highly likely that high inflation will scuttle the Obama ship, much like it did Carter's.

183 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:37:21pm

re: #152 ArdentCapitalist

Suggested reading for you.

The year is 2008 although it really began in 2007.
First to go: Bear Sterns then Lehman Brothers.
Major players: Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke.
October 13, 2008

184 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:37:43pm

re: #170 darthstar

Thank god for small favors.

Because Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco are all that right? Those two are more responsible for the after actions from Katrina than President Bush. As is Bobby Jindal now.

185 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:37:50pm

re: #123 darthstar

bush is retired now. He walks his little dog and picks up its poop, and seems to be quite happy doing so. I suspect he just wants to put his whole presidency behind him now, as he wasn't exactly the most effective president we've had. I'm perfectly happy to let him go off into the sunset and disappear. And to his credit, I haven't seen him say a peep about Sarah Palin (probably because he's smart enough to see what an albatross she's become for McCain and doesn't want to have anything to do with her).

But he was slow on Katrina. He could have salvaged his legacy by creating a NOLA recovery project that created thousands of jobs, and in two years that place would have been back to normal. He chose not to.

The Mississippi gulf coast, which suffered as much damage as New Orleans, is back to normal now. New Orleans is not. And neither situation have anything to do with George Bush.

186 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:37:52pm

re: #182 ArdentCapitalist

Good lord, my eyes!

187 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:37:58pm

re: #181 WindUpBird

No, Bush only fucked up FEMA.

Last time *I* checked, the Mayor wasn't FEMA.

The federal government cannot come into a state without permission from the governor thereof.

188 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:37:59pm

re: #180 Jeff In Ohio

Whoa, a 9.9 out of 10 WTF moment! Someone sent me this via email.

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

AGW.

189 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:38:32pm

re: #123 darthstar

bush is retired now. He walks his little dog and picks up its poop, and seems to be quite happy doing so. I suspect he just wants to put his whole presidency behind him now, as he wasn't exactly the most effective president we've had. I'm perfectly happy to let him go off into the sunset and disappear. And to his credit, I haven't seen him say a peep about Sarah Palin (probably because he's smart enough to see what an albatross she's become for McCain and doesn't want to have anything to do with her).

But he was slow on Katrina. He could have salvaged his legacy by creating a NOLA recovery project that created thousands of jobs, and in two years that place would have been back to normal. He chose not to.

Which reminds me, Bush has been an exemplary ex-President. Can't say the same for his Veep.

190 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:39:45pm

re: #129 Ben Hur

I don't agree.

I can agree that he should walk into the sunset, surrounded by 50 million Muslims he freed and that love him.

HaAHAHAhaHaHaHaHAAHAHAHAHa. The ones that love him so much that they throw their shoes at him?

Is the universe you live in fun? Do they have good healthcare? Can I join?

191 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:39:51pm

re: #187 MandyManners

The federal government cannot come into a state without permission from the governor thereof.

Blanco was so confused, she had no clue she had to give them permission and request specific aid. She also had no clue that she could call out the Louisiana Guard. None.

192 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:39:53pm

re: #187 MandyManners

The federal government cannot come into a state without permission from the governor thereof.

They couldn't prior to Katrina, but due to Blanco totally dropping the ball Congress changed the law to allow it to happen.

193 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:39:57pm

re: #189 Surabaya Stew

Which reminds me, Bush has been an exemplary ex-President. Can't say the same for his Veep.

because he says things you don't want to hear...you are probably more expressive here than he is anywhere else...should there be a different standard?

194 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:40:45pm

re: #184 soxfan4life

Because Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco are all that right? Those two are more responsible for the after actions from Katrina than President Bush. As is Bobby Jindal now.

I'll give you that. They didn't handle the situation well at all. But the devastation was far more than the state could handle. It needed federal intervention, and it needed it immediately. For two weeks Katrina stewed and grew and worked toward the gulf. When they knew it was a Cat 5 storm, FEMA should have been staging in multiple areas BEFORE it hit. They didn't. (they have for storms since, so someone learned a lesson)

195 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:40:53pm

re: #191 reine.de.tout

Blanco was so confused, she had no clue she had to give them permission and request specific aid. She also had no clue that she could call out the Louisiana Guard. None.

And all those lovely busses that Nagin let sit there...

196 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:41:09pm

re: #189 Surabaya Stew

Which reminds me, Bush has been an exemplary ex-President. Can't say the same for his Veep.

Is doing and saying nothing 'exemplary'?


I think you mean:

Which reminds me, Bush has been in hiding. Can't say the same for his veep, whom I also wish would go away.

197 borgcube  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:42:20pm

re: #110 Charles

OT: I'm going to be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this Friday at 7:30 pm Pacific.

That ought to make a few more heads explode.

Colmes is a decent guy. I think he's wrong on the issues about 80% of the time, but he's a straight shooter and believes what he says and sticks to it.

198 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:42:33pm

re: #195 MandyManners

And all those lovely busses that Nagin let sit there...

now you're doing it too >

The failings of the LA local governments in no way lessen the failings of the Bush-raped FEMA.

199 Blueheron  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:42:35pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

And your point is...?

They are the primary ones responsible in such emergencies. The Feds come in later.

200 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:42:37pm

re: #192 soxfan4life

They couldn't prior to Katrina, but due to Blanco totally dropping the ball Congress changed the law to allow it to happen.

I would compare her actions to those of Barbour but, that would be brutal.

201 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:42:39pm

re: #194 darthstar

I'll give you that. They didn't handle the situation well at all. But the devastation was far more than the state could handle. It needed federal intervention, and it needed it immediately. For two weeks Katrina stewed and grew and worked toward the gulf. When they knew it was a Cat 5 storm, FEMA should have been staging in multiple areas BEFORE it hit. They didn't. (they have for storms since, so someone learned a lesson)

The law at that time did not allow federal intervention unless the governor asked for it, President Bush had troops and equipment ready waiting for her to ask.

202 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:43:05pm

re: #167 darthstar

/facepalm

Darthstar, I can only assume by your avatar and your willingness to strike yourself in the face by your own hand that you are a wealth redistributionist type of lad. I am terribly sorry for this, as you must have never worked in a private sector position long enough or hard enough to care about the fruits of your labors not only being taken from you by threat of government force (they can throw you in jail for not paying up you know), but in a quantity that significantly lowers the standard of living that you possibly could have if other people weren't so generous with your money. I can only assume that your income is of a volume that wouldn't be drastically improved by a large reduction in your tax burden... of course there are exceptions to that statement. A good deal of folks who make very generous tax donations to government seem to love continuing to vote for people who want to take more of it.

203 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:43:11pm

re: #194 darthstar

They didn't. (they have for storms since, so someone learned a lesson)


Buzzz...wrong again. Having gone through Hurricane Ike a year ago and being part of a municipal government I can tell you that FEMA DOES NOT enter the area until after the storm hits. So try again with your argument...but try something called facts, they may help.

204 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:43:19pm

re: #152 ArdentCapitalist

I declined to read past the racist 2nd word of the second line of your comment. You dirty pig.

205 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:43:26pm

re: #195 MandyManners

And all those lovely busses that Nagin let sit there...

Here's a story for ya.
FEMA called and tried to get Blanco on the phone, 2 days after the storm.
Was told she was napping and couldn't be disturbed.
LOL.
Idiot.

206 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:43:34pm

re: #194 darthstar

I'll give you that. They didn't handle the situation well at all. But the devastation was far more than the state could handle. It needed federal intervention, and it needed it immediately. For two weeks Katrina stewed and grew and worked toward the gulf. When they knew it was a Cat 5 storm, FEMA should have been staging in multiple areas BEFORE it hit. They didn't. (they have for storms since, so someone learned a lesson)

Oh, dear me. Big Brother Fed.

207 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:43:55pm

re: #202 ArdentCapitalist

Darthstar, I can only assume by your avatar and your willingness to strike yourself in the face by your own hand that you are a wealth redistributionist type of lad. I am terribly sorry for this, as you must have never worked in a private sector position long enough or hard enough to care about the fruits of your labors not only being taken from you by threat of government force (they can throw you in jail for not paying up you know), but in a quantity that significantly lowers the standard of living that you possibly could have if other people weren't so generous with your money. I can only assume that your income is of a volume that wouldn't be drastically improved by a large reduction in your tax burden... of course there are exceptions to that statement. A good deal of folks who make very generous tax donations to government seem to love continuing to vote for people who want to take more of it.

You sure make a lot of assumptions man.

208 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:43:55pm

re: #198 windsagio

GAZE.

209 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:44:55pm

re: #202 ArdentCapitalist

No need to get personal on a Lizard in that manner.

210 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:45:14pm

re: #208 MandyManners


Time for me to admit my n00bishness, I have no idea what the hell you did there.

211 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:45:38pm

re: #205 reine.de.tout

Here's a story for ya.
FEMA called and tried to get Blanco on the phone, 2 days after the storm.
Was told she was napping and couldn't be disturbed.
LOL.
Idiot.

I remember that but, facts like that aren't at the top of my consciousness since I was not there then.

212 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:45:50pm

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

213 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:46:04pm

re: #204 Spare O'Lake

I declined to read past the racist 2nd word of the second line of your comment. You dirty pig.

And what, pray tell, was racist about my post?

214 Teh Flowah  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:46:06pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.

Don't you feel like this IS the point? We made it a point here that BDS was ridiculous, just as ridiculous as the ODS we see now. But pointing out moral equivalency doesn't mean that both sides are okay. It means both sides are stupid, at least as far as the left and right fringes go.

The difference is that here we know that. Over at Hot Air, they cried about it for 8 years and are now doing the exact same, perhaps worse. It's pretty amazing.

215 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:46:18pm

re: #210 windsagio

Time for me to admit my n00bishness, I have no idea what the hell you did there.

It's a tactic some employ to prevent them from ripping off someone's head.

216 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:46:33pm

re: #204 Spare O'Lake

I declined to read past the racist 2nd word of the second line of your comment. You dirty pig.

too bad...it was a fine post, except for that...but remember the Boy George meme?...it's only racial if you want it to be...I saw it as a reference to a boy BO, young and inexperienced...whatever, there is always a problem if you want one

217 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:46:48pm

re: #168 Locker

It's hard to even consider what you say when it's packed with this much assumption and implied inside knowledge of what the "dems" were thinking and doing. You seem to have forgotten this dialog is about the Media.

I would like to say though, that the left was willing to support Bush until Iraq. Not standing on rubble, not because they were scared of his re-election, because we shifted our entire military focus from chasing and catching the guys who attacked us to an invented threat in Iraq. Period.

Inventing a threat in Iraq? Meaning that Iraq was no threat to the US or her interests? No Kuwait? No state of war? No daily firing upon US/British planes? No assassination attempts of former presidents? No tents set up in the PA handing out checks to the families of suicide bombers (all shown on TV in the Middle East), no starving of more children than Bush could ever do in your wildest fantasies? No oil for food? No killing Kurds?

And that's only a sliver. Please don't tell me you discovered the Middle East and it's history only on 9/11.

Iran should've been first? Yes. But don't tell me that in a "volatile" place like the Mid East your going here:

Sean Penn: Last year I went to Iraq. Before Team America showed up, it was a happy place. They had flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles.

Have to go. But must say I've enjoyed this debate more than others I can remember.

218 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:46:51pm

re: #211 MandyManners

I remember that but, facts like that aren't at the top of my consciousness since I was not there then.

I understand.
I do recall these things vividly, because I was here, worked for a state agency, and spent the next six months dealing with the aftermath.

219 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:47:00pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

It wasn't HIS job until he was called by Blanco.

220 Neutral President  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:47:02pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

Strawman... no one has said that. Nice try Lao Che.

221 Ben Hur  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:47:18pm

re: #190 drcordell

HaAHAHAhaHaHaHaHAAHAHAHAHa. The ones that love him so much that they throw their shoes at him?

Is the universe you live in fun? Do they have good healthcare? Can I join?

You apparently know ZERO Iraqis.

later.

222 bosforus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:47:23pm

re: #190 drcordell

HaAHAHAhaHaHaHaHAAHAHAHAHa. The ones that love him so much that they throw their shoes at him?


A Muslim threw a shoe at that guy too you know?

223 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:47:24pm

How did we get on Katrina?

OK, I'd like to go on record as saying that Katrina was a result of failures on all levels of government: Federal, state, county and local.

In the long run, more people could have died. However, even thought there were failures at many levels and stages of the disaster, there were many successes and exemplary actions by government and private organizations. One such government agency would be the US Coast Guard.

Category IV or higher hurricanes must be taken seriously particularly in coastal zones. This does not mean evacuating the day before. It takes a great deal of pre-planning and preparation on all levels.

224 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:47:25pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

No one is saying he did a great job...we are just saying that he did the same level of job the Feds do on every storm and that local officials failed miserably.

225 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:47:27pm

re: #212 drcordell

Its important dammit!

Any failing of Conservatives (or Bush) has to be directly attributable to the failings of lib'ruls!

... Actually, yes that is weird.

226 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:47:35pm

re: #217 Ben Hur

Have to go. But must say I've enjoyed this debate more than others I can remember.

No. I served in Desert Storm.

227 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:47:46pm

re: #213 ArdentCapitalist

And what, pray tell, was racist about my post?

As I said earlier, you don't refer to an African-American man as a "boy". Good grief.

228 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:48:20pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

and conversly I can't believe there are people still trying him for his role...he did what he was supposed to do in spite of all the emotion otherwise

229 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:48:28pm

re: #193 albusteve

because he says things you don't want to hear...you are probably more expressive here than he is anywhere else...should there be a different standard?

Has nothing to do with what I don't or do want to hear; the point is that former Presidents and Vice-Presidents should go quietly into the sunset. There is a different standard for our former leaders than there is for anybody else, and Bush has been sticking to it while Cheney has ignored centuries of precedent.

230 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:48:40pm

re: #215 MandyManners

Lol.

Is what I said not true tho?

231 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:48:45pm

re: #218 reine.de.tout

I understand.
I do recall these things vividly, because I was here, worked for a state agency, and spent the next six months dealing with the aftermath.

I'd have run screaming for the hills.

232 acacia  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:48:50pm

Questions for Charles - If the owner of a website claims there isn't enough time in the day to monitor, aren't there programs that automatically block or delete comments with certain words, etc.? If the owner says "anything goes," isn't this against Internet protocol - aside of course from common sense and decency. In other words, I can't believe there is any excuse whatsoever not to clean up one's website. Any insight on how easy or hard it is? Thanks.

233 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:49:09pm

re: #198 windsagio

Using the word rape there is just dumb, man.

234 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:49:22pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

This is directed at you as well as darthstar... BUSH COULD NOT SEND FEDERAL TROOPS INTO LOUISIANA ON HIS OWN ACCORD!

I happened to be part of the Katrina relief effort as part of VMGR-452 (Marine Aerial Transport/Refueling Squadron-- KC-130 aircraft). We could not receive federal orders into NAS New Orleans with Marines on the aircraft as part of a relief effort until permission had been granted from the governor of the state.

You may want to read up on the Posse Comitatus act, and what it means for federal troops acting as law enforcement.

235 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:49:43pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

And had he stepped in without the governor asking you would be screaming about that too. The law simply did not allow the Feds to come in uninvited. While President Bush and FEMA dropped the ball in the aftermath, the blame for the deaths and human suffering caused to the people of NO during Katrina lies at the feet of Nagin and Blanco much more than the President.

236 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:49:48pm

re: #233 obdicut


Oh damn, I didn't even think about htat.


My apologies.

237 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:49:49pm

re: #230 windsagio

Lol.

Is what I said not true tho?

No, it was not. It was not the federal government's place to enter Louisiana until Blanco called. Reine was there. She can tell you a few things.

238 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:50:33pm

re: #230 windsagio

Lol.

Is what I said not true tho?

See Reine's No. 205.

239 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:50:55pm

re: #229 Surabaya Stew

while Cheney has ignored centuries of precedent.

is that the same precedent that Jimmy Carter has been sticking to when he talks about his GOP successors?

240 bosforus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:51:06pm

re: #232 acacia

aren't there programs that automatically block or delete comments with certain words, etc.?

Good idea but not so easy.
pron =porn
ghey = gay
You get the picture.

241 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:51:14pm

re: #236 windsagio

No problem, thanks for acknowledging.

I think having Brown as the head of FEMA was disgraceful. But the Governor tried to tough it out for way too long.

242 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:51:21pm

re: #224 Big Steve

No one is saying he did a great job...we are just saying that he did the same level of job the Feds do on every storm and that local officials failed miserably.

Not all.
Employees of the La Dept of Wildlife and Fisheries were on the move toward New Orleans from Alexandria (3 hours away) before the storm had completely left New Orleans. And they were in place, with boats, when the levee was breached, and began rescuing people almost immediately. They had planned for this, and all their NO and Baton Rouge employees had put their families in hotels out of those areas so that the employees could go work 16-hour days without having to worry about their own families.

They had a plan, and they executed it beautifully. Won't ever see anything about it, though, because neither the Governor nor Nagin was not involved, and there can't be anything publicized that would make them look bad.

243 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:51:39pm

re: #109 SixDegrees

A friend of ours was part of a National Guard team that began organizing for deployment to Louisiana 48 hours before the storm made landfall. They arrived at the Texas/Louisiana border the day the storm hit. The spent four days sitting a few hundred yards from the border, waiting for Governor Blanco to give approval for them to enter.

Bush declared a national emergency on August 27, freeing up FEMA, DHS and other resources for a full response, two days before landfall.

If you're going to criticize, try to keep at least one foot in reality.

If the Texas/Louisiana State Line is a "border" then what's 8 Mile Road?

244 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:51:55pm

re: #237 MandyManners

No, it was not. It was not the federal government's place to enter Louisiana until Blanco called. Reine was there. She can tell you a few things.

I actually thought that was the case as well.

You might want to read this:

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

245 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:52:00pm

re: #202 ArdentCapitalist

My avatar simply indicates my love for the grateful dead.
The /facepalm was due to my being completely dismayed by your claims of revolution--or are you a Glenn Beck sockpuppet?
I make decent salary, in the low to mid six figures, but I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination.
I pay a lot of taxes, yes. But that's okay, so long as my taxes are used to benefit this country (I call it 'rent' for living in America). Would I like to pay less? Sure. But there are people who could benefit from a tax cut much more than I could, and they make far less than I do, not more. So yeah, I guess I am a wealth redistributionist.

You sound like the selfish type who doesn't want to pay a dime in taxes, but will complain like hell if he hits a pot-hole in his car, doesn't want the government to touch his medicare (/), and whines about paying $3 a gallon for gas. Good luck with that revolution of yours, patriot.

246 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:52:07pm

re: #229 Surabaya Stew

Has nothing to do with what I don't or do want to hear; the point is that former Presidents and Vice-Presidents should go quietly into the sunset. There is a different standard for our former leaders than there is for anybody else, and Bush has been sticking to it while Cheney has ignored centuries of precedent.

Cheney will not tolerate lies from the BO admin, or perceived threats from then either...times change and just because yiu think something is right does not make it so...Cheney is a citizen and has every right to speak out against the BO madness

247 Blueheron  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:52:37pm

re: #204 Spare O'Lake

I declined to read past the racist 2nd word of the second line of your comment. You dirty pig.

I missed that.

248 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:52:49pm

re: #217 Ben Hur

I would also like you to consider how many of the "threats" you listed happened before Desert Storm. We blew the living crap out of everything he had and then weapons inspectors sat on his face until shortly before we invaded. At that point he was like broken down prize fighter, posturing for what seemed to be the sake of ego alone.

Not to mention the fact that at the time, we were in a supported (by both left and right) action in Afghanistan. Support which was completely destroyed by the Iraq debacle.

249 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:53:27pm

re: #182 ArdentCapitalist

And what particular point that I pointed out do you believe was influenced by my hands being upon a really good invasive plant? While the conservatives certainly do have their fringe elements who argue that the time is near for violent coup of the U.S. government, I was merely pointing out that the current economic policies have had a huge impact on Obama's approval ratings, as well as the Congress. If there's going to be any kind of overthrow in this nation, it will be by a sweep of the Congress in 2010 by folks who campaign upon a renewed sense of economic conservatism. Also, I see it highly likely that high inflation will scuttle the Obama ship, much like it did Carter's.

Well, well.


The obscene seizure of wealth by this president I think is starting to really sink into some people.

You do know that marginal tax rates have been higher under both past Democrat and Republican administrations, right?

Seeding some fact with opinion and outright stupidity does not make for a convincing argument.

Know what I mean? Sure you do.

In point of fact, I agree with some of what you say. That said, to presume certain facts not in evidence is simply deceptive. Further, while you may not like the administrations health plan (and nor do I), to derisively say that health care is simply an entitlement is absurd.

Access to health care speaks to the kind of society we live in and the morality of the community we have shaped.

If you want to deny access to health care to illegals, for example, say so. Just don't call yourself a moral person or assume your attitude reflects American values.

If you want to deny access to health care but insist that hospitals treat emergencies, you are a hypocrite. Emergency treatment is far more expensive than allowing regular health care, irrespective of status. Taxpayers have to shell out for emergency care.

Hospitals and health care aren't part of the Border Patrol mandate. Deal with it.

250 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:53:57pm

re: #217 Ben Hur

By the time we invaded Iraq in 2003, they weren't even a threat to Kuwait anymore. We'd spent the previous 12 years bombing their asses back toward the stone age. The invasion took only a few weeks because we met almost no real resistance. Iraqis were throwing down their guns and surrendering en masse, just as they did in 1991. They had no interest in dying for Saddam.

251 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:54:20pm

re: #245 darthstar

The /facepalm was due to my being completely dismayed by your claims of revolution--or are you a Glenn Beck sockpuppet?

We have a revolution every two years in this nation.

252 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:54:39pm

re: #237 MandyManners

I read it :p Its still down to 2 totally seperate versions of reality tho' 'Being there' doesn't give you clearer vision.


wait, why are we arguing about Katrina again?


I feel like I had this exact same argument 4 years ago... then 3 years ago... then 2 years ago... then last year.


Actually I do know why. "Its the misdirection, stupid!"

People know that they can get the subject off the rightie extremists being evil (cf: hot air) if they get everyone arguing about some other pet subject.

253 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:54:42pm

I for one have always wished that people who use the dictator word would learn same damn history or actually talk to people who have suffered under real tyranny but of course because they're so in love with sounding hyperbolic this is what we get.

254 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:54:42pm

re: #239 Big Steve

is that the same precedent that Jimmy Carter has been sticking to when he talks about his GOP successors?

Yes, Carter has broken it as well. Took him over 20 years to do so, but he's just as wrong for doing so as Cheney is.

255 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:54:58pm

re: #245 darthstar

My avatar simply indicates my love for the grateful dead.
The /facepalm was due to my being completely dismayed by your claims of revolution--or are you a Glenn Beck sockpuppet?
I make decent salary, in the low to mid six figures, but I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination.
I pay a lot of taxes, yes. But that's okay, so long as my taxes are used to benefit this country (I call it 'rent' for living in America). Would I like to pay less? Sure. But there are people who could benefit from a tax cut much more than I could, and they make far less than I do, not more. So yeah, I guess I am a wealth redistributionist.

You sound like the selfish type who doesn't want to pay a dime in taxes, but will complain like hell if he hits a pot-hole in his car, doesn't want the government to touch his medicare (/), and whines about paying $3 a gallon for gas. Good luck with that revolution of yours, patriot.

a revolution at the POLLS...why can't you see what he wrote?...are you so blined with your silly partisanship?

256 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:55:32pm

Aug 27, 2005
Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina

BATON ROUGE-Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows:

August 27, 2005

The President The White House Washington, D. C.

Through: Regional Director FEMA Region VI 800 North Loop 288 Denton, Texas 76209

Dear Mr. President:

Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR � 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina. In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

SNIP

This was two days before Katrina struck Louisiana.

257 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:55:39pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

How did Mr Bush do so much worse than Bill Clinton and the Red River flooding?

Reconstruction there is still going on.

As I noted earlier, natural disasters take hours or days. Reconstruction can take decades.

258 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:55:46pm

Gotta' feed The Kid and get him ready for church.

259 JamesWI  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:55:53pm

slightly OT but relates back to ArdentCapitalists annoying ramblings:

Since Rush and the Right were all giddy when the economy was at its worst early in Obama's Presidency (I seem to recall them naming the Dow Jones the "Obama approval rating" back when it was below 7,000 in February or March), how come we haven't heard anything about this now that the Dow is over 10,000, well above what it was when Obama was just starting out.

Suddenly they're just paying attention to a couple approval polls, and comparing them to a popularity rating of a woman whose only responsibility is flying around on a jet, signing her name to a book she didn't write, and occasionally spewing some garbage on Facebook. Wow, it's a really big shock that a President doesn't have high approval ratings while the economy is still bad! I could never foresee that happening.

260 bosforus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:56:00pm

re: #253 HappyWarrior

I for one have always wished that people who use the dictator word would learn same damn history or actually talk to people who have suffered under real tyranny but of course because they're so in love with sounding hyperbolic this is what we get.

Certainly you're not suggesting that people get an education and then talk as if they've learned something!

261 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:56:02pm

re: #248 Locker

Waay OT
Locker I just took in the Clutch video. OMG these guys rock Thanks, we are all head bangin at my office right now.

262 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:56:04pm

re: #201 soxfan4life

The law at that time did not allow federal intervention unless the governor asked for it, President Bush had troops and equipment ready waiting for her to ask.

IMHO, it's a bad idea to allow the feds to stick their noses into a states business unless directly asked for the help. I can think of a dozen different ways this can go wrong.

263 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:56:24pm

re: #245 darthstar

The /facepalm was due to my being completely dismayed by your claims of revolution--or are you a Glenn Beck sockpuppet?
I make decent salary, in the low to mid six figures, but I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination.

Good luck with that revolution of yours, patriot.

I was not arguing for a revoluation... merely pointing out that the administration's drastically detrimental economic policies that are choking the economy are more than likely going to lead to a huge Democrat loss in 2010.

No revolution there... just an election sweep. Does that qualify as a revolution?

264 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:56:53pm

re: #242 reine.de.tout

Similar to your comments, many of the petrochemical plants in the NO/Norco area adequately planned, got their employee's families out, and put appropriate crews in place to stabilize their plants. I was involved with one such situation. Very few large corporations with facilities in the area experienced anywhere close to the total meltdown that the governmental agencies allowed to occur.

265 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:57:08pm
266 simoom  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:57:18pm

re: #149 Blueheron

Any chance you could stream it here at LGF?

I think this is the Fox Radio stream URL,

[Link: mfile.akamai.com...]
(Windows Media format) [should be able to open it in any player that supports it: WMP, WinAMP, etc]

Also post show podcasts here (under the free podcasts section):
[Link: www.foxnewsradio.com...]

267 Blueheron  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:57:30pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

No that isn't the point at all. He is blamed because he wasn't right there wearing his Superman suit when the storm hit. He showed up 4 days later.

It is the local people who ,according to the protocols used forever, who are primarily responsible for getting people out of the way. But since the Gov and Mayor were Democrats they had to be blameless.

268 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:57:31pm

re: #262 RogueOne

IMHO, it's a bad idea to allow the feds to stick their noses into a states business unless directly asked for the help. I can think of a dozen different ways this can go wrong.

That is why the law had been that way. States rights and all that.

269 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:57:45pm

re: #263 ArdentCapitalist

I was not arguing for a revoluation... merely pointing out that the administration's drastically detrimental economic policies that are choking the economy are more than likely going to lead to a huge Democrat loss in 2010.

No revolution there... just an election sweep. Does that qualify as a revolution?

And just who are the Dems going to lose to?

270 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:57:59pm

re: #244 Gus 802

I actually thought that was the case as well.

You might want to read this:

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

The statement about when Blanco declared a state of emergency is correct. What Blanco and Nagin NEVER did was require an evacuation until too late to ensure everyone got out. The rest the info in that quoted part is correct, including the fact that Blanco was leery of Bush, thinking that there was some political motive behind the feds' actions,leading her to dither and fail to make any decisions whatsoever.

271 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:58:00pm

re: #256 Gus 802

Aug 27, 2005
Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina

This was two days before Katrina struck Louisiana.

Not so fast...

Remember this?Your text to link...

272 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:58:03pm

re: #251 MandyManners

We have a revolution every two years in this nation.

We have an election, not a revolution. We change some of the leadership in this country, but the basic structure (executive, legislative, judicial branches) remain in place. While I understand you don't like President Obama, it would serve you better to not use Beck/Palin language to describe our democratic process. Calling our elections a 'revolution' is just silly. We didn't have a revolution in 2008. We elected the best candidate by a long, involved, and peaceful process.

273 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:58:11pm

Ron Paul to be featured on tonight's Glenn Beck show (again).

274 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:58:20pm

re: #261 Rightwingconspirator

Waay OT
Locker I just took in the Clutch video. OMG these guys rock Thanks, we are all head bangin at my office right now.

Laugh I don't even remember how long ago I posted that link. Must have been a few weeks ago. How did you happen to come upon it today? Just curious but I'm very glad you liked it.

Admittedly I never heard of Clutch before I heard that song on the Left for Dead 2 commercial but it does knock the plaster off the walls, none the less.

275 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:58:22pm

re: #265 doubter4444

hahaha!...why the name calling?...can you rebutt?

276 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:58:36pm

re: #256 Gus 802

Aug 27, 2005
Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina

This was two days before Katrina struck Louisiana.

There you go using facts again...shame on you.

277 Blueheron  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:58:54pm

re: #213 ArdentCapitalist

And what, pray tell, was racist about my post?

You called Obama 'our boy'. Not smart wording when talking about a black president.

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:59:31pm

re: #42 Charles

I knew someone would try to say it was just as bad on the left when Bush was president.

No. It wasn't. I followed all of the worst stuff the left said about Bush, and yes, there was plenty of hatred directed at him.

But what's going on with the right wing is WAY beyond the worst of the left, and it's not on the fringes. It's the mainstream right wing doing it.

I tend to trust your eye for these things, Charles.

279 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 2:59:44pm

re: #246 albusteve

Cheney will not tolerate lies from the BO admin, or perceived threats from then either...times change and just because yiu think something is right does not make it so...Cheney is a citizen and has every right to speak out against the BO madness

Lies and threats from the Obama administration? Differences of opinion, certainly, but come on, seriously? And Cheney is not an average citizen, he's an ex Vice-President. AGW aside, I don't recall Gore speaking about the "madness" of Bush's administration. (Or Quayle denouncing Clinton for that matter either.)

280 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:00:21pm

re: #271 researchok

Not so fast...

Remember this?Your text to link...

Looks like they all wanted to blame each other in the end.

I'm still calling Keystone Cops on all sides.

281 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:00:42pm

re: #132 amrafel

I'm sure most of the vile comments are legit, but IIRC, Mr. Johnson once wrote about "agent provocateurs" pretending to be what they're not, in order to discredit the site owner. (That might not be the expression Mr. Johnson used, but it's the right sentiment.) I wish someone could estimate the percentage. This does not excuse the site owner from keeping the vile comments on the site, however.

IIRC- the charge was that "agent provocateurs" had infiltrated LGF and turned Charles against Vlaams Belang. We had fallen for Belgian Psy-ops.

That's not likely the intent you had in mind though.

282 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:00:48pm

re: #280 Gus 802

Looks like they all wanted to blame each other in the end.

I'm still calling Keystone Cops on all sides.

Agreed.

283 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:00:48pm

re: #272 darthstar

We have an election, not a revolution. We change some of the leadership in this country, but the basic structure (executive, legislative, judicial branches) remain in place. While I understand you don't like President Obama, it would serve you better to not use Beck/Palin language to describe our democratic process. Calling our elections a 'revolution' is just silly. We didn't have a revolution in 2008. We elected the best candidate by a long, involved, and peaceful process.

oh for gods sake...so you are pissy over 'elections' are not 'revolutions'?...pretty shallow to argue semantics when everybody else knows what the guy meant

284 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:00:48pm

re: #232 acacia

Questions for Charles - If the owner of a website claims there isn't enough time in the day to monitor, aren't there programs that automatically block or delete comments with certain words, etc.? If the owner says "anything goes," isn't this against Internet protocol - aside of course from common sense and decency. In other words, I can't believe there is any excuse whatsoever not to clean up one's website. Any insight on how easy or hard it is? Thanks.

One thing that's quite simple for anyone using blog software: set up some kind of notification system, so that people can report hateful comments. Hot Air hasn't done this, of course.

But in their case, they really don't need a notification system. All they have to do is read through any thread of comments. This stuff isn't a tiny minority hidden among a whole lot of reasonable comments -- it's all over the place, in every thread.

285 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:00:51pm

re: #263 ArdentCapitalist

The U.S. government WILL be overthrown...by election.

Your words. Yes, you said election. But did the US government get "overthrown" in 2008? No. Don't be an insipid fool.

286 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:01:09pm

re: #259 JamesWI

slightly OT but relates back to ArdentCapitalists annoying ramblings:

Since Rush and the Right were all giddy when the economy was at its worst early in Obama's Presidency (I seem to recall them naming the Dow Jones the "Obama approval rating" back when it was below 7,000 in February or March), how come we haven't heard anything about this now that the Dow is over 10,000, well above what it was when Obama was just starting out.

Just let me ask this... how much of the Dow rebounding above 10,000 has to do with the avalanche of printed cash flowing into the economy? There is sound economic theory that this type of spending policy is not sustainable and WILL lead to significant inflation. When that happens, all those stocks worth X number of dollars all the sudden aren't worth so much... or am I wrong?

287 Achilles Tang  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:02:02pm

re: #250 darthstar

By the time we invaded Iraq in 2003, they weren't even a threat to Kuwait anymore.

You can however be damned sure that they would have been that and more by 2010. Sanctions would have been dropped by Europe and it would have been business as usual, with the 4th largest oil reserves to play with.

Are you going to suggest that they would have changed? Hell they are the same SOBs today as then; we just have a little more influence now.

288 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:02:24pm

re: #53 Ben Hur

I'm sorry, but Birth Certificate freaks do not rise to the level of accusing a president of murdering 3000 of his own people.

True. How mainstream did the Troofers ever get?

289 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:02:26pm

re: #286 ArdentCapitalist

Glenn Beck recommends you hoard gold and ammunition!

290 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:02:50pm

re: #272 darthstar

Thomas Jefferson called his 1800 victory a revolution.

[Link: www.gilderlehrman.org...]

And Representative Jon Lewis called President Obama's 2008 victory a nonviolent revolution.

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

291 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:03:00pm

re: #286 ArdentCapitalist

Just let me ask this... how much of the Dow rebounding above 10,000 has to do with the avalanche of printed cash flowing into the economy? There is sound economic theory that this type of spending policy is not sustainable and WILL lead to significant inflation. When that happens, all those stocks worth X number of dollars all the sudden aren't worth so much... or am I wrong?

Most of that cash will be paid back.

GM of course is an exception.

292 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:03:39pm

Just to throw in on the Katrina thing. I can't speak for anyone else but even though I am left leaning, things are said which I find to be an embarrassment for the left. Attacking Bush (and anyone else) about Katrina, especially during the emergency, was completely classless.

Mistakes were made, sure. Mistakes are made on every single project and during every single effort man undertakes. The Katrina/Bush attack thing, to me, seemed like rampant BDS, put forth as just another reason to "hate" him or his administration.

I find it similar to the never ending "gate" attacks against the current administration. It's a concerted effort to increase ill will towards a leader, period. In an emergency of this magnitude I find it much more productive to focus on moving forward and helping, especially DURING the forking crisis.

293 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:03:59pm

re: #270 reine.de.tout

The statement about when Blanco declared a state of emergency is correct. What Blanco and Nagin NEVER did was require an evacuation until too late to ensure everyone got out. The rest the info in that quoted part is correct, including the fact that Blanco was leery of Bush, thinking that there was some political motive behind the feds' actions,leading her to dither and fail to make any decisions whatsoever.

Thanks. There's a final report out there somewhere which I found earlier this year. I linked it here at LGF since the topic of Katrina comes up from time to time. Personally, I wasn't impressed with Blanco's performance during the crisis as well as FEMA Secretary Brown.

294 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:04:38pm

re: #283 albusteve

oh for gods sake...so you are pissy over 'elections' are not 'revolutions'?...pretty shallow to argue semantics when everybody else knows what the guy meant

Revolution:

2 a : a sudden, radical, or complete change b : a fundamental change in political organization; especially : the overthrow or renunciation of one government or ruler and the substitution of another by the governed c : activity or movement designed to effect fundamental changes in the socioeconomic situation

Election:

1 a : an act or process of electing b : the fact of being elected

Yeah, I guess I am pissy.

295 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:05:08pm

re: #279 Surabaya Stew

Lies and threats from the Obama administration? Differences of opinion, certainly, but come on, seriously? And Cheney is not an average citizen, he's an ex Vice-President. AGW aside, I don't recall Gore speaking about the "madness" of Bush's administration. (Or Quayle denouncing Clinton for that matter either.)

yep, lies and ensuing threat to US security...lies about the success of the Iraqi surge and waterboarding having no effect...on and on...Cheney is a stout guy and you can't deal with his honesty

296 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:05:18pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

Uh- pointing out the Mayor and Governor failed in their jobs is not an argument saying Bush did well.

297 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:05:23pm

re: #212 drcordell

I cannot believe there are so many people on this thread flailing around trying to make the argument that Bush did a good job handling Katrina. Unbelievable.

Debunk

[Link: www.popularmechanics.com...]

298 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:05:33pm

re: #287 Naso Tang

You can however be damned sure that they would have been that and more by 2010. Sanctions would have been dropped by Europe and it would have been business as usual, with the 4th largest oil reserves to play with.

Are you going to suggest that they would have changed? Hell they are the same SOBs today as then; we just have a little more influence now.

And Palau may have nuclear weapons in 2050...should we invade them now?

299 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:06:20pm

re: #269 Alouette

And just who are the Dems going to lose to?

You've got me there. If the Republicans don't stop acting like fiscal morons, they are going to go the way of the dodo. I'm not a "Third-party" type of individual, mainly because as history has shown with the Bull Moose debacle, when the conservative ticket gets split, you end up with a liberal victory.

300 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:06:21pm

re: #276 darthstar

There you go using facts again...shame on you.

darthstar - I was here, I lived through it AND I worked for state government at that time.

But of course - I can't possibly know anything, can I?

The plight of the citizens of NO falls squarely on the backs of Blanco and Nagin.

Mississippi got its rebuilding money out to its citizens quickly. Louisiana was still dithering around with the distribution 24 months later.

But - what do I know?

301 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:06:50pm

re: #298 darthstar

And Palau may have nuclear weapons in 2050...should we invade them now?

/no they will be under water by then...

302 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:06:58pm

re: #295 albusteve

yep, lies and ensuing threat to US security...lies about the success of the Iraqi surge and waterboarding having no effect...on and on...Cheney is a stout guy and you can't deal with his honesty

Obviously you take this all quite personally, but I will agree that Cheney is a stout guy.
/

304 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:07:35pm

re: #293 Gus 802

Thanks. There's a final report out there somewhere which I found earlier this year. I linked it here at LGF since the topic of Katrina comes up from time to time. Personally, I wasn't impressed with Blanco's performance during the crisis as well as FEMA Secretary Brown.

Brown was an embarrassment.
Blanco was an embarrassment.
Nagin was an embarrassment.
Rank and file folks who were on the ground did a SPECTACULAR job with essentially zero leadership from the above named

305 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:07:37pm

re: #274 Locker

I was looking through the links for music, yeah you linked it two weeks ago. I'm a huge indy band/guitar fan. The rest of their stuff is more grunge or hard rock but pretty cool in any case. I lurk all over this site BTW :)

306 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:07:48pm

re: #298 darthstar

And Palau may have nuclear weapons in 2050...should we invade them now?

No, we should do like the current administration is doing with Iran. Wait until they develop them, maybe even use them, then deal with the problem.

307 simoom  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:07:56pm

re: #266 simoom

I think this is the Fox Radio stream URL,

[Link: mfile.akamai.com...]
(Windows Media format) [should be able to open it in any player that supports it: WMP, WinAMP, etc]

I just tried opening the stream with VLC, which works fine, so that should be one free option for the Mac or Linux.

308 brucee  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:08:09pm

I noticed we're discussing stupid comments, so I present to you a 102 page long stupid comment:

Kent Kovind Hovind is a well-known "young-earth" biblical creationist. As such the strength of his dissertation is of broad interest.
According to our source, contrary to accepted practices in academia where doctoral dissertations are available to the public. Kent. Hovind, along with his alma mater, Patriot Bible University, has consistently refused to allow his dissertation to be offered for public reprint or scholarly inquiry.

Young-earth creationist Kent Hovind's doctoral dissertation
(Several links for downloading the full PDF)

309 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:08:10pm

re: #62 Ben Hur

There are truthers in congress, and until recently one working in the WH.

Please give examples of their public statements or actions. I am aware of Van Jones' weird status. Others?

310 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:09:10pm

re: #300 reine.de.tout

Very well, then. I'll defer to your judgement on the issue as you live there.

311 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:09:37pm

re: #72 Ben Hur

And suddenly, Hollywood, that voice of moralism that was travelling the world assuring the world that THEY didn't vote for Bush, he's not OUR president, etc etc isn't relevant.

They're now born again Americans, who can't understand that the crap they syndicate all over the world including to the most "conservative" countries on Earth, can possibly be the reason "they" hate us.

Half the world thinks that Americans say hello by having sex.

The Scandanavians feel left out.

Are you really suggesting that instead of hating us for our freedoms, or our McDonaldses, they hate us for our skanky movies?

312 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:09:46pm

re: #299 ArdentCapitalist

You've got me there. If the Republicans don't stop acting like fiscal morons,

FTFY

313 Achilles Tang  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:09:51pm

re: #298 darthstar

And Palau may have nuclear weapons in 2050...should we invade them now?

That analogy fell flat. You are welcome to try another.

314 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:10:44pm

re: #305 Rightwingconspirator

I was looking through the links for music, yeah you linked it two weeks ago. I'm a huge indy band/guitar fan. The rest of their stuff is more grunge or hard rock but pretty cool in any case. I lurk all over this site BTW :)

Well I'm hoping you have at least heard of Michael Franti/Spearhead. That is our (wife and myself) favorite indie band. He's fairly political though so that could be off-putting to certain folks. Great music though.

Mostly I listen to underground House Music but that's definitely not indie band/guitar. It's more like the rebirth of disco crossed with funk, soul and a drum machine. truehouse.net is a good place to check out some stuff if you are feeling adventurous. Cheers mate!

315 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:10:44pm

re: #292 Locker

Just to throw in on the Katrina thing. I can't speak for anyone else but even though I am left leaning, things are said which I find to be an embarrassment for the left. Attacking Bush (and anyone else) about Katrina, especially during the emergency, was completely classless.

Mistakes were made, sure. Mistakes are made on every single project and during every single effort man undertakes. The Katrina/Bush attack thing, to me, seemed like rampant BDS, put forth as just another reason to "hate" him or his administration.

I find it similar to the never ending "gate" attacks against the current administration. It's a concerted effort to increase ill will towards a leader, period. In an emergency of this magnitude I find it much more productive to focus on moving forward and helping, especially DURING the forking crisis.

Well said. And I would like to add that when we do discover mistakes and review what went wrong, we shouldn't always use it as a weapon with which to beat our political opponents. In other words- it shouldn't be a witch hunt (per se), but rather a way to learn and improve with each other.

316 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:12:27pm

re: #315 Sharmuta

Very well said and I completely agree. Cheers Sharm.

317 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:12:50pm

re: #95 researchok

Actually, the BusHitler folks were a lot more common than you imply.

There was also the matter of an MSM journalist/opinion writer who called for a new 'John Wilkes Booth'. Then there are those on the left who insist Bush helped plan and execute 9/11- up to 30% of Dems according to some polls.

Who was the Booth guy? I missed that one.

318 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:14:15pm

Katrina was a failure of bureaucracy as far as I can tell. Just look at a snippet from this article:

There were obstacles to amassing that sort of force. Almost 40 percent of Louisiana's National Guard is on active duty in Iraq; this left the governor with only 4,000 members to muster over the weekend, and a total of 5,700 by Monday.

Aware of this problem, other governors, including New Mexico's Bill Richardson, offered to help. On Sunday afternoon, Richardson called Blanco offering his own state militia, and Blanco readily accepted.

That did not solve the problem.

Because of legal guidelines, Richardson could not send a single soldier until approval came from Washington, specifically the National Guard Bureau. Washington, meanwhile, could not give such approval without a formal request from Blanco.

That request was made Tuesday, after New Orleans was almost completely under water. It would be two more days, until late Thursday, before that authority would come from Washington. And by then, almost four days had passed since Katrina hit the coast. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, were dead.

Bureaucratic glitches slowed progress from the beginning. On Sunday, the day before the storm, the Louisiana National Guard asked FEMA for 700 buses to evacuate people. It received only 100.

319 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:14:33pm

re: #304 reine.de.tout

Brown was an embarrassment.
Blanco was an embarrassment.
Nagin was an embarrassment.
Rank and file folks who were on the ground did a SPECTACULAR job with essentially zero leadership from the above named

This is from the Executive Summary of the bipartisan report:

The Select Committee identifi ed failures at all levels of government that signifi cantly undermined and detracted from the heroic efforts of fi rst responders, private individuals and organizations, faith-based groups, and others.

The institutional and individual failures we have identified became all the more clear when compared to the heroic efforts of those who acted decisively. Those who didn’t fl inch, who took matters into their own
hands when bureaucratic inertia was causing death, injury, and suffering.

Those whose exceptional initiative saved time and money and lives. We salute the exceptions to the rule, or, more accurately, the exceptions that proved the rule. People like Mike Ford, the owner of three nursing homes who wisely chose to evacuate his patients in Plaquemines Parish before Katrina hit, due in large part to his close and long-standing working relationship with Jesse St. Amant, Director of the Plaquemines Office of Emergency Preparedness.

320 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:16:05pm

re: #303 Gus 802

Katrina Report

Congressional Reports: H. Rpt. 109-377 – A Failure of Initiative: Final Report of the Select Bipartisan Committee to Investigate the Preparation for and Response to Hurricane Katrina

Gus - if you are interested, here is the history I wrote of Katrina and the efforts my Department made as well as other state agencies, and the issues we had to deal with before and after the storm. Included in this document are the dates of Blanco's emergency declaration (coincides with the Snopes article), as well as other declarations.

321 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:16:34pm

re: #221 Ben Hur

You apparently know ZERO Iraqis.

later.

Yes. We were greeted as liberators. Thank you Dick Cheney's sock puppet.

322 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:17:40pm

re: #320 reine.de.tout

Gus - if you are interested, here is the history I wrote of Katrina and the efforts my Department made as well as other state agencies, and the issues we had to deal with before and after the storm. Included in this document are the dates of Blanco's emergency declaration (coincides with the Snopes article), as well as other declarations.

Thanks. Bookmarked.

323 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:17:44pm

re: #310 darthstar

Curious.

You never capitalize "Bush", yet you seem to find it when spelling "Hitler", Obama", and Osama bin Laden".

Intentional?

324 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:18:05pm

All of you folks out there who think that me referring to Obama as "our boy" is racist are FAR too sensitive. You must be the types who timidly monitor every word you say so as to not to inadvertently anger over-sensitive folks with higher levels of skin pigment.

325 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:18:20pm

re: #318 JasonA

Even if every single National Guard soldier were preplaced in New Orleans prior to the storm, the levees (victim of decades of Democrat neglect and fraud) would have failed.

If every single National Guard soldier were preplaced in New Orleans, the 1100 buses would still not have been used to evacuate a single resident. Those busses were an integral part of the New Orleans city and state

If every single National Guard soldier were preplaced in New Orleans, the Superdome would not have provided any better shelter than it did. Despite being a part of the state disaster plan, and then being designated a Katrina disaster shelter a shelter two days before the storm hit, New Orleans was unable to provide even the water the state plan called for. Presumably, the non existant water supplies were managed by the same democrats that oversaw the levees.

Of course, not every National Guard soldier could have been preplaced in New Orleans. Katrina hit Florida, Alabama and Mississppee as well as New Orleans. Those states seem to have a far better disaster relief plan and efforts than did New Orleans and Louisiana. In fact, the storm impacted 90,000 square miles, an area almost the size of Iraq.


The attempt to place the blame for the disaster in New Orleans and Louisisana on the federal goverment is laughable. In fact, a case could be made that the federal government put far too many resources into Louisiana rather than more equitable distribution of resouces in other states.

The role of the federal government is to back up state and local disaster relief responses. In the case of New Orleans, years of corruption on the state and city levels revealed the emperors wardrobe.

326 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:18:29pm

re: #254 Surabaya Stew

It took carter much less time than that. IIRC, he didn't even make it through Reagan's first term but I'd be hard pressed to find a link. OTOH, I can find all kinds of links about him sticking his nose into Clinton's business.

328 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:19:07pm

All I find myself wishing for more and more is a political party that even makes the barest nod towards internal consistency. That acknowledges that this kind of vitriol isn't just deplorable when your enemies do it, it's also inexcusable when your own side does it.

I also long for any party willing to address paradoxical points in their platform. Such as, how can you simultaneously say I need to be worried that the government is the enemy and coming to kill me, yet at the same time argue we need to expand the ease and methods by which that same government can put me to death?

If fetuses are people and have all the same rights, should we replace birth certificates with conception certificates? Or should we stick with the "traditional definition" of a person?

Not pointing these two specific points out as worth debating here. I just can't find any party, even on the Left, that isn't riddled with crazy-ass self-contradicting logic errors, created as artifacts of this knee-jerk, clannish, contrarian "Whatever the other guys want, I'm against" form of politics.

329 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:19:12pm

re: #324 ArdentCapitalist

I'm waiting for you to mouth off about Killgore.

330 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:19:57pm

...

331 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:20:12pm

re: #180 Jeff In Ohio

Whoa, a 9.9 out of 10 WTF moment! Someone sent me this via email.

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

Apparently the Dr. Who production team is trying to save money on FX by creating real phenomena.

332 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:20:13pm

re: #327 Charles

Tel-Chai Nation: Thoughts on a now awful man running a site called 'LGF'

He's a dick AND an idiot.

What a load to bear.

333 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:20:16pm

While watching the Katrina aftermath on the tee vee I kept thinking we needed to send someone in, like a Peter Ueberroth (LA Olympics) who could get the needed organization done quickly - of course with money being no problem.

334 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:20:56pm

re: #327 Charles

Tel-Chai Nation: Thoughts on a now awful man running a site called 'LGF'

They are really keen on their you-will-abandon-Israel meme.

335 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:21:03pm

re: #321 drcordell

I don't think that you gain anything by cheap shots like that.

336 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:21:09pm

re: #324 ArdentCapitalist

Yeah, dumbass, white folks got higher levels of skin pigment. Did you take a minor in biology with your economics degree?

337 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:21:12pm

re: #324 ArdentCapitalist

I didn't find the first post racist, but you are kinda pushing it now...

338 Lateralis  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:21:17pm

re: #94 iceweasel

Absolutely. And some of people on the left who screamed loudest about Bush's policies have no problem when Obama continues or even expands some of those same policies.

Like drone attacks in Pakistan.

339 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:21:47pm

re: #324 ArdentCapitalist

re: #327 Charles

Tel-Chai Nation: Thoughts on a now awful man running a site called 'LGF'

Another loser who thinks Pamela's boobs are brains.

340 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:21:59pm

re: #227 MandyManners

As I said earlier, you don't refer to an African-American man as a "boy". Good grief.

And if you do not know this, I suggest you join us here in 1959.

341 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:22:33pm

re: #325 researchok

(victim of decades of Democrat neglect and fraud)

Why do that kind of thing?

342 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:22:34pm

re: #329 Sharmuta

I'm waiting for you to mouth off about Killgore.

By "Killgore" I assume you are referring to Al Gore. Nope, nothing to mouth off about him... except I thought that the only amazing thing he's ever done is spawn a child who proved that a Prius can exceed 100 mph.

Seriously... who ever thought a 1.5 liter engine could propel that much steel and battery to 100 mph? I certainly didn't... gotta hand it to those Toyota folks.

343 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:22:40pm

re: #327 Charles

Tel-Chai Nation: Thoughts on a now awful man running a site called 'LGF'

So many of these fools sound like jilted lovers. It's such a recognizable pattern that I find it hard to ignore. It's starting to remind me of those Scientologist escapees who talk about being stalked and pressured to come back for years. Man, CJ they REALLY didn't want to "let you go".

344 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:22:42pm

re: #334 Sharmuta

They are really keen on their you-will-abandon-Israel meme.

Critique from the insecure.

That just oozes a meritorious argument

/

345 recusancy  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:22:44pm

re: #327 Charles

Tel-Chai Nation: Thoughts on a now awful man running a site called 'LGF'

Looks like if you don't bad mouth Islam at every turn you are considered 'anti-Israel'. Good to know.

346 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:22:56pm

re: #335 obdicut

I don't think that you gain anything by cheap shots like that.

You're right. Nobody deserves to be called Dick Cheney. It's over the line.

347 lostlakehiker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:23:15pm

re: #286 ArdentCapitalist

Just let me ask this... how much of the Dow rebounding above 10,000 has to do with the avalanche of printed cash flowing into the economy? There is sound economic theory that this type of spending policy is not sustainable and WILL lead to significant inflation. When that happens, all those stocks worth X number of dollars all the sudden aren't worth so much... or am I wrong?

The stocks aren't worth any more. But the number of dollars it takes to represent that same old value soars. The government then happily collects taxes on the capital "gains" scored by the "winners". Never mind that the same 100 shares of stock, sold at a handsome profit, won't buy any more groceries or gasoline or pay any more rent than when the stock was bought.

Inflation is an engine that permits the feds to tax savings as well as income.

348 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:23:47pm

re: #324 ArdentCapitalist

All of you folks out there who think that me referring to Obama as "our boy" is racist are FAR too sensitive. You must be the types who timidly monitor every word you say so as to not to inadvertently anger over-sensitive folks with higher levels of skin pigment.

Yeah. Must be it. You got it.

It's got nothing to do with decency, politeness, and an attempt at rising above the fray.

It must be the rampant PC-ness riding around here at LGF.

This is my problem with people speaking out against PC-- they're very often speaking out against simple politeness.

349 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:24:19pm

re: #327 Charles

Tel-Chai Nation: Thoughts on a now awful man running a site called 'LGF'

You now approve of Hezbollah supporters? Who sez?
I clicked thru and found out.
That's just crazy.

350 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:24:38pm

re: #270 reine.de.tout

The statement about when Blanco declared a state of emergency is correct. What Blanco and Nagin NEVER did was require an evacuation until too late to ensure everyone got out. The rest the info in that quoted part is correct, including the fact that Blanco was leery of Bush, thinking that there was some political motive behind the feds' actions,leading her to dither and fail to make any decisions whatsoever.

Did someone say she hadn't? Otherwise, I'm unsure what people think declaring a state of emergency actually does.

351 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:25:14pm

re: #348 obdicut

what a bullshit pile on...all of you

352 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:26:09pm

re: #351 albusteve

Then why address me?

353 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:26:58pm

re: #341 obdicut

Why do that kind of thing?

Over the decades, billions were poured into NO and LA, with little or no oversight.

Katrina was an accounting.

354 Blizard  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:27:29pm

re: #324 ArdentCapitalist

All of you folks out there who think that me referring to Obama as "our boy" is racist are FAR too sensitive. You must be the types who timidly monitor every word you say so as to not to inadvertently anger over-sensitive folks with higher levels of skin pigment.

So, watch what you say. It's still racist. Lots of us here are sensitive about racism. Get it?

355 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:27:47pm

re: #346 drcordell

Do you have Cheney Derangement Syndrome?

356 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:27:54pm

re: #348 obdicut

Yeah. Must be it. You got it.

This is my problem with people speaking out against PC-- they're very often speaking out against simple politeness.

No, I am honest when I say that I was simply astonished that people thought my use of the words "our boy" when referring to Obama was racist.

Wow. Just... wow. I guess the six years I spent in the Marine Corps serving with the finest men on God's green earth of all pigment tint options desensitized me to how sensitive a lot of the civilian world is about the slightest word that could in any way be mistaken as racist.

357 jonik  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:27:56pm

Reading this article kind of makes you wish for the good old days of almost a year ago when all the left wing blogs wanted Bush's head. How the worm has turned. It amazes me that people will say and do the dumbest things about a politician.

358 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:28:02pm

Does anyone happen to know the source or remember a quote I read here recently that goes something like this:

Poor debates discuss people
Good debates discuss actions
Great debates discuss ideas

Now that's not exactly correct but I'm trying to locate the original text and source but seem to be striking out.

Thanks ya'll.

359 Cato the Elder  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:28:16pm

OT: I've been MIA today because I had to make sweet Honda auger love to sixteen inches of snow by eight feet by 500, when the guy who normally plows the driveway had hydraulics problems. The big snowblower started up on the first pull, and it was gearhead love at first four-stroke. Later the plow dude came by and whistled. Wha? You did that with that? He still got to play, though, 'cause there were some heavy drifts.

My big, heavy, gas-guzzling clunker of a Lincoln made it downtown and back (dog food and rum run) just fine. I passed several Prii that were having difficulties, but I figured their owners are all equipped with cellphones and towing clauses in their insurance policies, so I just waved my cigar merrily as I cruised on past.

This is what I came to New England for: winter. While we still have it.

360 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:28:16pm

re: #323 Racer X

Curious.

You never capitalize "Bush", yet you seem to find it when spelling "Hitler", Obama", and Osama bin Laden".

Intentional?

It's how I differentiated between Bush 41 and bush 43...turned into a habit. I can capitalize the shrub though, if it'll help.

361 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:28:28pm

re: #326 RogueOne

It took carter much less time than that. IIRC, he didn't even make it through Reagan's first term but I'd be hard pressed to find a link. OTOH, I can find all kinds of links about him sticking his nose into Clinton's business.

Sounds like the actions of a disappointed and bitter man, that Jimmy Carter. Aside from Dick Cheney, I can't think of another former POTUS or VPOTUS who's done crap like this. My point is that the Executive branch has had very high standards re: conduct for years, and that only a fool would go against centuries of protocol.

362 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:28:30pm

re: #355 Sharmuta

Do you have Cheney Derangement Syndrome?

You have to ask?

Or were you just being PC?

/

363 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:28:37pm

re: #355 Sharmuta

Do you have Cheney Derangement Syndrome?


stage 3

364 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:28:42pm

OT:

Stars and Stripes: Political correctness, misunderstanding let Nidal Hasan slip through the system.

365 SpaceJesus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:28:49pm

Young Earth Creationist Kent Hovind's "Doctoral Dissertation" Released

thank you wikileaks,

[Link: www.wikileaks.org...]

Absolutely hilarious. For those of you who don't know, "Dr." Hovind is a young earther who is doing time in prison for sex crimes etc.

Maybe my favorite quote so far from his dissertation on evolution is this, "The God of Mohammedism is not the god of the bible by any stretch of the imagination. It is a little pantheistic god of nature. Because of this, the Islam religion accepts evolution very readily as scientific fact"

366 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:29:11pm

re: #352 obdicut

Then why address me?

why not?...you best reflect all the windy verbage here...attacking people over some minor indiscretion is the new pink

367 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:29:24pm

re: #327 Charles

Tel-Chai Nation: Thoughts on a now awful man running a site called 'LGF'

He obviously lacks critical thinking skills. Of course if he takes Geller seriously he lacks far more.

368 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:30:30pm

re: #355 Sharmuta

Do you have Cheney Derangement Syndrome?

What gives you the impression that I'm deranged? Ben Hur made a ridiculous comment about how much the Iraqi people LURRRVE George Bush, and I appropriately mocked him for it by calling him Dick Cheney.

369 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:30:33pm

re: #360 darthstar

It's how I differentiated between Bush 41 and bush 43...turned into a habit. I can capitalize the shrub though, if it'll help.

May I suggest using Bush for POTUS 43 and Bush Senior for POTUS 41?

370 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:30:42pm

re: #350 RogueOne

Did someone say she hadn't? Otherwise, I'm unsure what people think declaring a state of emergency actually does.

Yes, there was some confusion about it.
Essentially, though - the declaration just allows agencies to start watching and put initial measures into place. That's it.

The extent of damage was so catastrophic - no one was prepared for it. No one. It was up to Blanco and esp. Nagin to take care of the folks in NO before the storm hit. They failed.

371 Neutral President  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:30:50pm

re: #327 Charles

LOL. I've been waiting for someone to do this:

Now, for about a year, he's been slowly doing a 360, and abandoning many of the people who were his friends for many years, saying nasty and libelous things, and it looks like Donald Douglas may have predicted correctly, that Johnson would turn anti-Israel, even by proxy.

"That's 180 you moron!"

372 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:31:35pm

re: #370 reine.de.tout

Yes, there was some confusion about it.
Essentially, though - the declaration just allows agencies to start watching and put initial measures into place. That's it.

The extent of damage was so catastrophic - no one was prepared for it. No one. It was up to Blanco and esp. Nagin to take care of the folks in NO before the storm hit. They failed.

See my 325

373 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:31:36pm

re: #351 albusteve

what a bullshit pile on...all of you

What's your problem, boy?

No, it doesn't sound good, does it? Referring to the "Leader of the Free World" (as former President Bush was often called) as "boy" is demeaning and a dog-whistle to racists who still consider African Americans little more than former slaves.

374 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:32:03pm

re: #361 Surabaya Stew

Sounds like the actions of a disappointed and bitter man, that Jimmy Carter. Aside from Dick Cheney, I can't think of another former POTUS or VPOTUS who's done crap like this. My point is that the Executive branch has had very high standards re: conduct for years, and that only a fool would go against centuries of protocol.

I think the code of conduct you describe is a product of wanting to believe we're a nice people but when it comes to politics, we aren't. We aren't as over-the-top as the British, but U.S. politics has ALWAYS been a nasty business.

375 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:32:03pm

Oh well the party is over and the wife is coming for the carpool home. Peace ya'll.

376 Hawaii69  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:32:16pm

re: #15 Canadhimmis

While Charles is definitely correctly pointing out the distasteful words of some on the right, what's the difference between that and when George Bush was POTUS? I seem to recall that many on the left called him Bushitler and the like. There was also a Hollywood mainstream production that basically called for and fantasized for his assasination.


It was a British film.

Bush's assasination wasn't the story. It just set the scene for the story.

377 lostlakehiker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:32:26pm
On December 09, 2009, at 3:39 PM, savvyelrod wrote:

My problem with climate change proponents is the lack of real debate on this subject. Almost without exception, we the public are expetced to join hands with Al Gore and nod our heads in agreement. The standard lines are " the vast majority of scientist agree with global warming being mans fault" - " there is no doubt about CO2 causing global warming" and several more standard lines. Here is what I want, real debate, live in front of, we the people, stand Al and his buddies up in front of the world live and have real debate with experts whom call this global warming a hoax and let us common folks make the call. I have so many questions to ask both sides, we have solid historic evidence of huge volcanos burping so much ash and CO2 into the air, the weather cooled over night and lasted a couple of decades, ya 20 years of up to 10 degrees F cooler than right now almost overnight. The earth has been for the last several hundred thousand years more often a snow ball in the north and south hems. Just how does the rewarming happen. I have a hundred unanwsered questions I would like both sides to anwser right out in front of the world. Nobody will convince me there is been a factual determination about mans CO2 emisssions without a open debate so I can use my own judgement to hear the opinions and decide. As an end note for those that think a majority of folks cannot be wrong look up the Dred Scott, Supreme Court Case. The US Supreme Court ruled by a vast majority, slavery is legal and right and all blacks could never become US citizans. This happened in 1857 long after the civil war. In 1787 the constitutional convention writes, "states shall decide if women are allowed to vote", all states except New Jersey decide women can no longer vote. Yup thats right all states except New Jersey are in agreement, there is no doubt, women can not vote. Pretty big majority in agreement, these folks had no doubt they were right. This is where I sit, majority be dammed, lets hear the debate and we will make up our own mind.

This from the "motley fool" investment blog. motleyfoolcomments, in a thread about global warming. (emphasis added) Counterpoint from the same thread:

On December 09, 2009, at 6:07 PM, Turfscape wrote:

golfer121501 wrote:

"Carbon Dioxide is an essential gas to the environment. It is plant food. Last time I checked we kinda need plants around. The audacity to even think of implying that carbon dioxide is a pollutant is ludicrous."

Ummm, yeah...Ammonia is vital to plant health, too. Doesn't mean I want a factory dumping 1.2 million cubic tons of it into my breathing space. Most people didn't complain when ammonia based fertilizers become more regulated in the wake of Oklahoma City...you probably didn't stand up and shout and the government about how nobody can pee anymore when those regs were passed (ammonia-based fertilizers being comprised of urea ammonium).

Maybe, juuussst maybe, folks are being a LITTLE bit reactionary in here? Hmm? Maybe, you think?


Isn't LGF the very model of insight and decorum?

378 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:32:32pm

re: #368 drcordell

You went on to say no one deserves to be called Dick Cheney. He's not the root of all evil, you know.

379 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:32:49pm

re: #359 Cato the Elder

OT: I've been MIA today because I had to make sweet Honda auger love to sixteen inches of snow by eight feet by 500, when the guy who normally plows the driveway had hydraulics problems. The big snowblower started up on the first pull, and it was gearhead love at first four-stroke. Later the plow dude came by and whistled. Wha? You did that with that? He still got to play, though, 'cause there were some heavy drifts.

Cato,

My Cub Cadet driven snowblower was working quite admirably until the electric PTO clutch went... now my damned PTO won't engage... I'm pretty sure it's a bad ground because I have power to the solenoid.

Perhaps it's time to transplant the old girl's Briggs with a Honda engine.

380 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:33:06pm

BBL folks

381 avanti  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:33:17pm

re: #347 lostlakehiker

The stocks aren't worth any more. But the number of dollars it takes to represent that same old value soars. The government then happily collects taxes on the capital "gains" scored by the "winners". Never mind that the same 100 shares of stock, sold at a handsome profit, won't buy any more groceries or gasoline or pay any more rent than when the stock was bought.

Inflation is an engine that permits the feds to tax savings as well as income.

You are ignoring the fact that there is presently no inflation. The 100K you had in your IRA will buy 60% more now than at its earlier lows.

382 rwmofo  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:33:27pm

Speaking of comments, I posted one on a Sarah-hating thread last night and made it all the way to 4th place (currently) in the "Bottom Comments" section here, successfully exceeding my personal objective.

I'd like to thank all the down-dingers, but to be fair want to thank the minority of up-dingers as well.

Heh.

383 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:33:32pm

re: #366 albusteve

why not?...you best reflect all the windy verbage here...attacking people over some minor indiscretion is the new pink

Have fun with that.

And nothing will ever replace pink.

384 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:33:53pm

re: #359 Cato the Elder

My big, heavy, gas-guzzling clunker of a Lincoln made it downtown and back (dog food and rum run) just fine. I passed several Prii that were having difficulties, but I figured their owners are all equipped with cellphones and towing clauses in their insurance policies, so I just waved my cigar merrily as I cruised on past.

This is what I came to New England for: winter. While we still have it.

Tell me you got the rum before the dog food.

385 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:34:02pm

re: #374 RogueOne

I think the code of conduct you describe is a product of wanting to believe we're a nice people but when it comes to politics, we aren't. We aren't as over-the-top as the British, but U.S. politics has ALWAYS been a nasty business.

That I am fully aware of, but wasn't it a nice detail that our former leaders used to stay of of their successor's affairs?

386 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:34:28pm

re: #381 avanti

You are ignoring the fact that there is presently no inflation. The 100K you had in your IRA will buy 60% more now than at its earlier lows.

where do you shop? I wanna go there too.

387 avanti  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:36:42pm

re: #386 brookly red

where do you shop? I wanna go there too.

My SS is adjusted for the cost of living, and no increase this year. Some things may be higher, but on average it's flat.

388 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:36:50pm

re: #383 obdicut

Have fun with that.

And nothing will ever replace pink.

not for people like you...it's not the point of the blog, altho some people need to make their rep that way

389 oldegeezr  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:36:54pm

“Terms of use”

Second paragraph, under “Comments”

HA: “…We reserve the right to delete your comments or revoke your registration for any reason. Rarely, if ever, will we do so simply because we disagree with you. We will, however, usually do so if you post something that is, in our good-faith opinion, (a) off-topic; (b) libelous, defamatory, abusive, harassing, threatening, profane, pornographic, offensive, false, misleading, or which otherwise violates or encourages others to violate these terms of use or any law, including intellectual property laws;...

LGF: "Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

I had the ban hammer dropped on my sorry boney arse…at both, AOS and HA for referring to the “big guy from Palm Beach” as “The Round Mound of Drug Addicted Sound”…!

No implied or inferred threats or mayhem just the plain, honest simple truth…and “they” couldn’t handle it…!

The "truth", that is.

390 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:37:09pm

re: #360 darthstar

It's how I differentiated between Bush 41 and bush 43...turned into a habit. I can capitalize the shrub though, if it'll help.

Do whatever you like. It just indicates a little more about you.

391 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:37:33pm

re: #373 darthstar

What's your problem, boy?

No, it doesn't sound good, does it? Referring to the "Leader of the Free World" (as former President Bush was often called) as "boy" is demeaning and a dog-whistle to racists who still consider African Americans little more than former slaves.

Molly Ivins once wrote a lovely piece about the history of the profession of copyboy at newspapers.

Apparently in the last years of the profession they were summoned by a yell of "Coppeee!"

They used to be summoned as "BOY!" This lasted until the development of black journalists at mainstream newspapers. Apparently a black Harvard grad punched out a senior editor at the Chicago Tribune. (How's that for sensitivity training.)

392 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:37:59pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

You went on to say no one deserves to be called Dick Cheney. He's not the root of all evil, you know.

You're right. He's just a simple man who enjoys draft dodging, chickenhawking, war profiteering and the endorsement of torture.

393 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:38:47pm

re: #386 brookly red

where do you shop? I wanna go there too.

Ummm, if the Dow goes from 6000 to 10,000, that is an increase of 4000 or 66% of 6000. If your IRA is distributed across the board, it should have an increase of roughly this value. If there is no inflation, your IRA's worth has increased over 60%, meaning you can buy 60% more stuff with it.

394 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:38:48pm

re: #368 drcordell

And as you can see, that's working out great for you. What if you had constructed a thoughtful post about Iraqi attitudes towards the US during the time of invasion and/or currently, and presented an argument, instead?

Why just choose a cheap shot, when you could have written something substantive?

395 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:38:55pm

re: #387 avanti

My SS is adjusted for the cost of living, and no increase this year. Some things may be higher, but on average it's flat.

might be regional then, the cost of every thing is much higher here than even a few months ago...

396 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:39:05pm

re: #391 SanFranciscoZionist

They used to be summoned as "BOY!" This lasted until the development of black journalists at mainstream newspapers. Apparently a black Harvard grad punched out a senior editor at the Chicago Tribune. (How's that for sensitivity training.)


Yes, adressing a bloack man as "boy" is a guaranteed way to start a fight.

397 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:39:08pm

re: #373 darthstar

What's your problem, boy?

No, it doesn't sound good, does it? Referring to the "Leader of the Free World" (as former President Bush was often called) as "boy" is demeaning and a dog-whistle to racists who still consider African Americans little more than former slaves.

depends...I'm not that sensitive about it...the whole issue will get you nothing, but keep at it if it makes you feel important

398 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:39:55pm

re: #265 doubter4444

Speaking of which, don't quote comments that are likely to be deleted. :p

399 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:40:11pm

re: #360 darthstar

It's how I differentiated between Bush 41 and bush 43...turned into a habit. I can capitalize the shrub though, if it'll help.

I've called people out for using "0bama" and it's only fair that I shake my my finger at you for this.

400 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:40:12pm

re: #393 ArdentCapitalist

Ummm, if the Dow goes from 6000 to 10,000, that is an increase of 4000 or 66% of 6000. If your IRA is distributed across the board, it should have an increase of roughly this value. If there is no inflation, your IRA's worth has increased over 60%, meaning you can buy 60% more stuff with it.

but it was at 13,000 ?

401 Cato the Elder  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:40:19pm

re: #379 ArdentCapitalist

Cato,

My Cub Cadet driven snowblower was working quite admirably until the electric PTO clutch went... now my damned PTO won't engage... I'm pretty sure it's a bad ground because I have power to the solenoid.

Perhaps it's time to transplant the old girl's Briggs with a Honda engine.

I used to sell all types of Hondas except for the cars when I was manager at a Baltimore motorcycle, ATV, and small-engine shop. Of course, in Baltimore snowblowers are not the matter of life-and-death they can be here, but no one (not even Mr Noone) ever brought one back except for service. I tried to give my dad one for Christmas, but he made me take it back. He prefers the exercise. Fortunately his driveway is on a 15-degree grade, so most of his work is downhill.

Anyway, Mr Honda - yes, there was a man named Honda who started the whole shebang - was such a mötörhead that back in WWII, when civilians couldn't even sell their childers for a half-gallon of black-market petrol, he made motorbikes that ran on coal.

I love my Lincoln, but for a trustworthy motor in all conditions, give me a Honda. Maybe when the big Connie's guts give out, I'll see about putting in two side-by-side Prius engines.

402 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:40:22pm

re: #388 albusteve

not for people like you...it's not the point of the blog, altho some people need to make their rep that way

What do you mean by people like me?

403 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:40:49pm

re: #392 drcordell

You're right. He's just a simple man who enjoys draft dodging, chickenhawking, war profiteering and the endorsement of torture.

Careful now.

404 Cato the Elder  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:40:55pm

re: #384 researchok

Tell me you got the rum before the dog food.

Nope. Dog comes first.

And there was beer backup here at the house.

405 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:41:14pm

re: #402 obdicut

What do you mean by people like me?

What do you mean people like like me?

/

406 avanti  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:41:17pm

re: #395 brookly red

might be regional then, the cost of every thing is much higher here than even a few months ago...

Look at the chart here for 2009, there is actually some deflation nationally.

chart.

407 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:41:39pm

re: #392 drcordell

You're right. He's just a simple man who enjoys draft dodging, chickenhawking, war profiteering and the endorsement of torture.

hehe Hey Doc, your upding count is finally higher than your downding count! By a wee bit, but hey! It's progress :)

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:41:46pm

re: #404 Cato the Elder

Nope. Dog comes first.

And there was beer backup here at the house.

Dog always comes first. Says it in the Talmud. "You must feed your animals, and then you may eat."

409 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:42:09pm

re: #394 obdicut

And as you can see, that's working out great for you. What if you had constructed a thoughtful post about Iraqi attitudes towards the US during the time of invasion and/or currently, and presented an argument, instead?

Why just choose a cheap shot, when you could have written something substantive?

Because Ben Hur has clearly shown himself to be a man who is beyond persuasion.

410 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:42:16pm

re: #402 obdicut

What do you mean by people like me?

people that want to nit pick every word people type and make that the issue instead of the gist of the post...like you

411 Cato the Elder  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:42:20pm

re: #396 Killgore Trout

Yes, adressing a bloack man as "boy" is a guaranteed way to start a fight.

The last time I met a bloack man, he told me he was carved out of a chunk of wood and his name was Pinocchio.

412 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:42:57pm

re: #293 Gus 802
re: #304 reine.de.tout

I lived through the Northridge quake close up. It was my 3rd "major quake".
Sylmar '71 S.F. '89 and Northridge. Nothing like Katrina of course!!! But then there are no earthquake shelters. And nobody politicized them either.

I learned a few things about disasters. People need to be prepared as individuals. Red Cross and FEMA always said you can be stuck on your own 3 days. GASP! It went like they said it could. I also read where N.O. was the most successful urban evac ever, as a percentage, a very fair measure. The emergency shelter the Superdome could beer up a full crowd for any game. But could not water 10,000 people with days of warning? Years of knowing what could happen, no water at the shelter. Huh?

I learned people and local churches got there first to help. Same as in Northridge, people helped people before anyone official showed up. NOLA, California, the great Salt Lake floods of the '80's it's all the same. People first then NGO's then government FEMA shows up.

413 avanti  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:43:12pm

re: #400 brookly red

but it was at 13,000 ?

True, but the trend is back up this year. I recall Beck predicting Dow 3500 after the election, but he stopped mentioning it recently.

414 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:43:14pm

re: #397 albusteve

depends...I'm not that sensitive about it...the whole issue will get you nothing, but keep at it if it makes you feel important

Well, your insensitivity to the issue is obvious...nobody is questioning that. That you could be an adult in America today and not understand the racial loading of the word 'boy' to refer to a black president defies reason. It's simply a way of saying 'n*****' and being able to step back and deny that you meant any harm by it. Anyone with an eighth grade education understands that.

415 Cato the Elder  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:43:28pm

re: #408 SanFranciscoZionist

Dog always comes first. Says it in the Talmud. "You must feed your animals, and then you may eat."

And pay your hired man.

Yes. Dog comes first. Right after God.

416 freetoken  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:43:44pm

re: #410 albusteve

people that want to nit pick every word people type and make that the issue instead of the gist of the post...like you

I for one down-dinged him exactly for the gist of his post.

417 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:43:46pm

re: #392 drcordell

You're right. He's just a simple man who enjoys draft dodging, chickenhawking, war profiteering and the endorsement of torture.

And how exactly did Cheney profit from the war differently than Dianne Feinstein?

And how did Cheney differ on torture say, than Alan Dershowitz?

As for draft dodging, how is Bill Clinton any different?

As for chicken hawking, well that has a long Democrat history...

418 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:44:04pm

re: #406 avanti

Look at the chart here for 2009, there is actually some deflation nationally.

chart.

Forget the chart I just went shopping. Well maybe it's not inflation, maybe just the price of everything has gone up.

419 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:44:09pm

re: #405 SanFranciscoZionist

What do you mean people like like me?

/

What do you mean people like me?

/

re: #410 albusteve

people that want to nit pick every word people type and make that the issue instead of the gist of the post...like you

Where are you getting this from?

re: #409 drcordell

Because Ben Hur has clearly shown himself to be a man who is beyond persuasion.

Alright, I'm going to stop trying to help you stop digging a hole now.

420 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:44:11pm

re: #409 drcordell

Because Ben Hur has clearly shown himself to be a man who is beyond persuasion.

Ben Hur has also shown himself to be a long time, friendly and thoughtful poster...whether he can be persuaded by you is your problem, not his

421 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:44:32pm

re: #399 JasonA

I've called people out for using "0bama" and it's only fair that I shake my my finger at you for this.

Fair enough...I've since reading RacerX's reply been capitalizing Bush 43...though it takes some backspacing and correcting on my part...but I'll adjust in a few days.

422 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:44:55pm

re: #403 Sharmuta

Careful now.

They forgot shotgun blast to the face. Even his friends worry about that one.

423 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:45:01pm

re: #288 SanFranciscoZionist

True. How mainstream did the Troofers ever get?

Governor of Minnesota.

424 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:45:15pm

re: #401 Cato the Elder

I used to sell all types of Hondas except for the cars when I was manager at a Baltimore motorcycle, ATV, and small-engine shop. Of course, in Baltimore snowblowers are not the matter of life-and-death they can be here, but no one (not even Mr Noone) ever brought one back except for service. I tried to give my dad one for Christmas, but he made me take it back. He prefers the exercise. Fortunately his driveway is on a 15-degree grade, so most of his work is downhill.

Anyway, Mr Honda - yes, there was a man named Honda who started the whole shebang - was such a mötörhead that back in WWII, when civilians couldn't even sell their childers for a half-gallon of black-market petrol, he made motorbikes that ran on coal.

I love my Lincoln, but for a trustworthy motor in all conditions, give me a Honda. Maybe when the big Connie's guts give out, I'll see about putting in two side-by-side Prius engines.

My daddy said, "Son you're gonna drive me to drinkin if you don't stop drivin that HOT... ROD... LINCOLN."

Oh yea, and chrome won't get ya home.

I was a scooter tramp in a past life.

425 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:45:23pm

re: #409 drcordell

I haven't seen that. I have seen Ben consider other people's point of view when he is treated with respect and a good counter-argument is presented to him.

426 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:45:40pm

re: #417 researchok

And how exactly did Cheney profit from the war differently than Dianne Feinstein?

And how did Cheney differ on torture say, than Alan Dershowitz?

As for draft dodging, how is Bill Clinton any different?

As for chicken hawking, well that has a long Democrat history...

Dershowitz lost his frickin' mind on the torture thing.

427 avanti  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:45:40pm

re: #418 brookly red

Forget the chart I just went shopping. Well maybe it's not inflation, maybe just the price of everything has gone up.

I guess it depends on what you are shopping for, I've found some real bargains this holiday.

428 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:46:17pm

re: #417 researchok

And how exactly did Cheney profit from the war differently than Dianne Feinstein?

And how did Cheney differ on torture say, than Alan Dershowitz?

As for draft dodging, how is Bill Clinton any different?

As for chicken hawking, well that has a long Democrat history...

Cheney profited differently from the Iraq war because he was the one who initiated it.

Cheney differs on torture because he was the one who personally oversaw the program.

Cheney differs on draft dodging because Clinton didn't launch any massive invasions while he was President.

429 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:46:35pm

re: #404 Cato the Elder

Nope. Dog comes first.

And there was beer backup here at the house.

Must be an awfully big dog...

Still, you are commended for having a beer stash.

A two week supply I hope.

430 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:46:37pm

re: #423 CyanSnowHawk

Governor of Minnesota.

For real? Gonna have to learn more.

431 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:46:38pm

re: #422 Racer X

They forgot shotgun blast to the face. Even his friends worry about that one.

"Shooting" is on the center left. I love "Telekinesis".

432 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:47:09pm

What is chicken hawking?

433 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:47:10pm

re: #412 Rightwingconspirator

FEMA exists to write checks and help clean up. Thats it. They are not first-line emergency response.

434 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:47:36pm

re: #414 darthstar

Charles,

Wow...you have a filter for the n-word here. Interesting. I'm not big on using it, and debated even posting in the context I did, but don't mind the asterisks. Just don't fuck with fuck...I like fuck. It's a good word.

Cheers.

435 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:47:51pm

re: #433 Racer X

FEMA exists to write checks and help clean up. Thats it. They are not first-line emergency response.

They also build re-education camps. ///

436 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:48:13pm

re: #414 darthstar

Well, your insensitivity to the issue is obvious...nobody is questioning that. That you could be an adult in America today and not understand the racial loading of the word 'boy' to refer to a black president defies reason. It's simply a way of saying 'n***' and being able to step back and deny that you meant any harm by it. Anyone with an eighth grade education understands that.

remember this...I could care less what you think of me or my opinions...you are going over the top

437 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:48:21pm

re: #427 avanti

I guess it depends on what you are shopping for, I've found some real bargains this holiday.

bread, toliet paper, cheese, that kind stuff...

438 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:48:38pm

re: #432 marjoriemoon

What is chicken hawking?

A chickenhawk is someone who has proven that they themselves do not wish to serve their nation in the military, yet when they are sitting behind a desk enthusiastically send other men to battle.

439 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:49:15pm

Sorry all you folks who oppose my use of the word "boy" when referring to the POTUS. In fact, come to think of it, I use it to describe all manner of folks from different races, colors, and creeds. When a junior employee does something patently stupid and needs an ass chewing, I have in fact told him to remove his head from his backside, completing the statement with the word "boy." When I was an instructor at the county sheriff's academy, and I caught word that a recruit professed his desire to get into a situation where he would use his sidearm, I immediately hollered at him as he stood stiff at attention for the better part of ten minutes. Once the tears started flowing from my rather graphic descriptions of how some have perished in combat, and how it made their families feel, I did in fact call the recruit in question "boy."

Uh oh... both of those people in each example were of northern European ethnic descent. Hrmmm... I guess I'm still a racist.

440 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:49:27pm

re: #438 drcordell

a little offtopic, but who invented the term? (yes I'm actually too lazy to google)

441 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:49:47pm

Ooo baby Commander Cody!

Youtube Video
442 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:50:11pm

re: #438 drcordell

A chickenhawk is someone who has proven that they themselves do not wish to serve their nation in the military, yet when they are sitting behind a desk enthusiastically send other men to battle.

Like our current CIC and his 30,000 troop escalation? President Bush our last CIC did serve. Nowhere in my Chain of Command did I ever see VP Cheney.

443 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:50:17pm

re: #435 Sharmuta

They also build re-education camps. ///

I hope those are better thought out than our education camps... er schools.

444 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:50:18pm
445 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:50:55pm

re: #428 drcordell

Cheese and crackers.

The War with Iraq began long before Bush 43 was elected. It is very likely that whoever won the election in 2000 was going to have to take military action in Iraq sooner rather than later. Completely independent of 9/11. Fact.

Deal with it.

446 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:51:03pm

re: #440 windsagio

a little offtopic, but who invented the term? (yes I'm actually too lazy to google)

Looks like it has roots that trace back to the war of 1812, but the first modern documented use is from a 1986 issue of The New Republic.

447 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:51:07pm

re: #424 marjoriemoon
Oh yea, and chrome won't get ya home.

But it sure as shit looks better when you're pushing it on the side of the road!!! :-)

My poor '65 Galaxie needs to have her bumpers re-chromed.

448 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:51:13pm

re: #419 obdicut

you have totally misjudged me...I don't really care what you think...I post, therefore I am...Charles calls the shots around here...I hardly need your help with anything, you overestimate yourself

449 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:51:19pm

Young environmentalists crash a climate change denier's conference in Copenhagen, and Lord High Denier Christopher Monckton goes ballistic, calling them "Hitler youth:"

Youtube Video
450 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:51:22pm

re: #439 ArdentCapitalist

Well presuming your stories are even true...


Hows this, 'boy' was traditionally used to refer to black folks, but is belittling and demeaning in any situation..


Its kinda an asshole word (well in that context).

451 bosforus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:51:47pm

re: #444 robdouth

See Charles' 42. You're about 400 comments behind the conversation and even then it was a dated argument.

re: #42 Charles

I knew someone would try to say it was just as bad on the left when Bush was president.

No. It wasn't. I followed all of the worst stuff the left said about Bush, and yes, there was plenty of hatred directed at him.

But what's going on with the right wing is WAY beyond the worst of the left, and it's not on the fringes. It's the mainstream right wing doing it.

452 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:51:57pm

re: #416 freetoken

I for one down-dinged him exactly for the gist of his post.

it's all about the gist, that's fair enough

453 Cato the Elder  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:52:13pm

re: #432 marjoriemoon

What is chicken hawking?

In sexual argot, it's older men trolling for young boys. Think NAMBLA.

In politics, it's people who did everything to get out of the military back in the day (say, Vietnam) and do everything now to keep their own progeny safe and never encourage them to volunteer, who foam at the mouth and cheer whenever someone else's kids are to be put in harm's way for their interests (always disguised as the best interests of the country).

It's the sexual predator / military shirker nexus that always gets the latter type of chickenhawks really hot and bothered.

Then they go watch battlefield footage until they calm down.

454 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:52:15pm

Comments that complain about what's posted or not posted at LGF are going to be deleted.

455 SpaceJesus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:52:24pm

re: #439 ArdentCapitalist

Sorry all you folks who oppose my use of the word "boy" when referring to the POTUS. In fact, come to think of it, I use it to describe all manner of folks from different races, colors, and creeds.


shut the fuck up

456 Neutral President  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:52:34pm

re: #438 drcordell

In other words, it's an ad hominem attack on the person rather than honest criticism of the issue.

457 freetoken  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:52:39pm

re: #449 Charles

Lord High Denier Christopher Mockton ...

Love that phrase.

458 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:52:44pm

re: #411 Cato the Elder

Heh
/I stink

459 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:52:50pm

re: #439 ArdentCapitalist

Call him POTUS if you're afraid to use his name. Noone will mind that.

460 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:52:53pm

re: #424 marjoriemoon

Commander Cody!
2pts

461 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:52:56pm

re: #428 drcordell

Cheney profited differently from the Iraq war because he was the one who initiated it.

Cheney differs on torture because he was the one who personally oversaw the program.

Cheney differs on draft dodging because Clinton didn't launch any massive invasions while he was President.

Actually, torture and rendition were initiated by Bill Clinton and was overseen by Al Gore (I'm that upsets you greatly)

Draft dodging is draft dodging- and Clinton had no compunction about bombing Iraq and declaring that Iraq had WMD's

Now that you clarified the 'profit' matter, I'm sure you'll express your outrage at Feinstein, et al.

Dick Cheney is not the root of all evil and clicking your heels 3 times won't make it so.

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go round. No one set of hands is cleaner than the other.

462 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:53:44pm

re: #442 soxfan4life

Like our current CIC and his 30,000 troop escalation? President Bush our last CIC did serve. Nowhere in my Chain of Command did I ever see VP Cheney.

Cheney's influence on Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq is well documented. And sending more troops to a war that was already begun is a little different than launching an invasion of one's own accord. Not to mention the fact that the invasion of Afghanistan can be directly justified by the 9/11 attacks.

463 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:54:28pm

Looks like you've all been BUSY today!
*waves*

464 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:54:41pm

re: #327 Charles

Tel-Chai Nation: Thoughts on a now awful man running a site called 'LGF'

Who is this schmuck?
I couldn't help noticing his "sources" - what a dead giveaway.
I know of no blogger who is a more steadfast supporter of Israel and enemy of Islamofascism and Eurofascism than Charles Johnson.
Damn, that econazi douchebag Elizabeth May sure is poison, though.

465 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:55:25pm

re: #435 Sharmuta

They also build re-education camps. ///

I have a lovely upper bunk with a view picked out...neener neener!

466 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:55:30pm

I love this blog.

Regularly scheduled commenting will now resume.

467 brookly red  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:55:42pm

re: #462 drcordell

Cheney's influence on Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq is well documented. And sending more troops to a war that was already begun is a little different than launching an invasion of one's own accord. Not to mention the fact that the invasion of Afghanistan can be directly justified by the 9/11 attacks.

/so O can blame this on Biden? Dang your good!

468 Neutral President  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:55:53pm

re: #442 soxfan4life

Like our current CIC and his 30,000 troop escalation? President Bush our last CIC did serve. Nowhere in my Chain of Command did I ever see VP Cheney.

But everyone knows that Darth Cheney was the Chimperor's puppetmaster.

/

469 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:56:10pm

re: #448 albusteve

I'm not making any judgments of you. I think you may have thought the end of my post was directed at you, when it was clearly not. I'm not in any way attacking you, just wondering why you're attacking me. I've gotten my answer. I'm fine with that.

470 bosforus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:56:27pm

re: #455 SpaceJesus

shut the fuck up

Check. Mate.

471 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:56:44pm

re: #450 windsagio

Well presuming your stories are even true...

Hows this, 'boy' was traditionally used to refer to black folks, but is belittling and demeaning in any situation..

Its kinda an asshole word (well in that context).

Fine, let it stay an asshole kind of word... it was certainly not used in any kind of racist context. Being branded a racist these days is the most easy and overused method of dismissing one's comments without debating the content. I could very well have referred to our boy Barack as our man Barack... it wouldn't make much difference. His behavior is, however, a bit more leaning towards the boyish side of things-- cocky and inept, so I think I'm going to stick with boy. Sorry folks... it's still not racist.

472 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:57:25pm

re: #457 freetoken

Love that phrase.

If Monckton is a Lord then I'm The Duke of Ellington.

/

473 bosforus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:57:35pm

re: #471 ArdentCapitalist

For the sake of your original argument you could have just given a fake apology and moved on.

474 borgcube  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:58:19pm

re: #439 ArdentCapitalist

Dude. I can't stand Obama either. The guy is going to make that asshole GWB look like the good old days when he's done screwing up the country with his insane ultra-leftist federal takeover of the economy at every turn possible crap spending us into oblivion. But don't try to defend using "boy" when describing Obama. We all know what it means.

475 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:58:32pm

re: #445 Racer X


Deal with it.

re: #473 bosforus

For the sake of your original argument you could have just given a fake apology and moved on.

thats totally not how the internet works >>

476 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:58:54pm

re: #471 ArdentCapitalist

Cocky? You mean like, uppity?

/Awaits response.

/

477 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:59:00pm

re: #473 bosforus

For the sake of your original argument you could have just given a fake apology and moved on.

It amazes me how easy it is to just say "oops, my bad". Some people cannot bring themselves to it, and end up digging a much larger hole.

478 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:59:00pm

re: #475 windsagio

oops hell whered that first quote come from?


I guess its KINDA relevant tho'

479 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:59:06pm

re: #462 drcordell

Cheney's influence on Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq is well documented. And sending more troops to a war that was already begun is a little different than launching an invasion of one's own accord. Not to mention the fact that the invasion of Afghanistan can be directly justified by the 9/11 attacks.

So for every unmanned drone attack that kills innocent civilians in Pakistan and Afghanistan do we need to look at that chicken hawk Joe Biden. The invasion of Iraq was unfinished business from Desert Storm, if it wasn't Bush/Cheney it would have been Gore/Lieberman or Kerry/Edwards. The US acted on credible intelligence with verification from other countries intelligence services. Do we need to wait 5 or 6 years on intelligence and let it pass the test of time before we act on it?

480 freetoken  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:59:39pm

Speaking of Copenhagen, the head US negotiator arrived yesterday. Here was his press conference:

[Link: www3.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

I post it because there are many characterizations of what the Administration's positions are wrt Copenhagen, several of them false.

481 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 3:59:46pm

re: #461 researchok

Actually, torture and rendition were initiated by Bill Clinton and was overseen by Al Gore (I'm that upsets you greatly)

Draft dodging is draft dodging- and Clinton had no compunction about bombing Iraq and declaring that Iraq had WMD's

Now that you clarified the 'profit' matter, I'm sure you'll express your outrage at Feinstein, et al.

Dick Cheney is not the root of all evil and clicking your heels 3 times won't make it so.

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go round. No one set of hands is cleaner than the other.

Yes. We had limited renditions under Clinton. But it was absolutely nothing like the massive scale of the Bush (and now Obama) torture program.

Yes, draft dodging is draft dodging. But Cheney takes the cake with his FIVE, count em, FIVE deferments.

And if you cannot see the difference between Clinton's actions in Iraq and Bush/Cheney's, I suggest you look at the number of men killed by each operation. I'm not sure, but I don't believe a single man lost his life launching cruise missiles against Iraq under Clinton's command. Bush sent over 4,000 men to their deaths in Iraq based on a faulty rationale. That is the difference.

And again, you are failing to see the difference between Cheney and Feinstein. Diane Feinstein has made money off of the Iraq war. But she was not the one who decided to launch the invasion in the first place. Can you not see the difference between the two? Dick Cheney was a driving force behind the decision to go to war. Diane Feinstein could not have stopped the Iraq invasion if she tried.

482 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:00:17pm

re: #433 Racer X

Except in NOLA for hurricanes
///

483 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:00:45pm

re: #449 Charles

That closeup was brutal.

484 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:00:50pm

re: #481 drcordell

Gotcha, all R's are bad all D's can do no wrong.

485 albusteve  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:00:54pm

re: #477 Racer X

It amazes me how easy it is to just say "oops, my bad". Some people cannot bring themselves to it, and end up digging a much larger hole.

OOPS!
sorry folks, if I upset anyone...if I did for no reason, my mom will be pissed

486 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:02:42pm

re: #477 Racer X

It amazes me how easy it is to just say "oops, my bad". Some people cannot bring themselves to it, and end up digging a much larger hole.

Like this?

Youtube Video
487 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:03:06pm

re: #474 borgcube

Dude. I can't stand Obama either. The guy is going to make that asshole GWB look like the good old days when he's done screwing up the country with his insane ultra-leftist federal takeover of the economy at every turn possible crap spending us into oblivion. But don't try to defend using "boy" when describing Obama. We all know what it means.

Apparently I was the only one who DIDN'T know what it meant. For fuck's sake lads, using a word to portray someone as inexperienced, childish, and the like. I guess I'm just too much of a country hick to be finely tuned to the sensitivities of enlightened society. Back where I come from, if someone wanted to be racist towards a black person, they would use far more insulting words that I'm sure you all are aware of that don't need to be listed here.

488 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:03:31pm

re: #477 Racer X

It amazes me how easy it is to just say "oops, my bad". Some people cannot bring themselves to it, and end up digging a much larger hole.

I've done it here a few times, and I've only been here a week. Hell, I did it with you in this Hot Air thread. It doesn't hurt one bit to admit fault, so long as you try not to repeat the mistake and make yourself out to be a liar about it.

Cheers, and good post.

489 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:03:59pm

I think Iraq was based on one overall objective- to spread democracy to the middle east as the counter influence to radical islam. Iraq is the center of the ancient caliphate, and now it's a democracy- the antithesis of theocracy. This will be an essential development in the War on Terror in the long term and provide security and stability to the region and hopefully the world.

But be sure to cheapen this important foreign policy objective as "chicken hawking".

490 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:04:44pm

re: #477 Racer X

It amazes me how easy it is to just say "oops, my bad". Some people cannot bring themselves to it, and end up digging a much larger hole.

It amazes me how easy it is to hyperoffend the hypersensitive. Know what I mean, boy?

491 bratwurst  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:05:02pm

re: #239 Big Steve

is that the same precedent that Jimmy Carter has been sticking to when he talks about his GOP successors?

He was not on TV several times a month savaging Ronald Reagan. I do not say this to defend his more recent bad behavior, but because it is a fact.

492 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:06:21pm

re: #490 ArdentCapitalist

It amazes me how easy it is to hyperoffend the hypersensitive. Know what I mean, boy?

I sure do, babe.

493 bratwurst  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:06:43pm

re: #471 ArdentCapitalist

I could very well have referred to our boy Barack as our man Barack... it wouldn't make much difference. His behavior is, however, a bit more leaning towards the boyish side of things-- cocky and inept, so I think I'm going to stick with boy. Sorry folks... it's still not racist.


Ah yes...the school of "I can't be a racist if I am just being honest".

494 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:07:15pm

re: #491 bratwurst

He was not on TV several times a month savaging Ronald Reagan. I do not say this to defend his more recent bad behavior, but because it is a fact.

well, Reagan was a reasonable pres. who just had some positions you could disagree with. I'm pretty sure that the most recent Bush represents everything Carter would hate in American politics.

Also, yeah not savaging your successor is different from an eternal gag order.

495 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:07:50pm

re: #479 soxfan4life

So for every unmanned drone attack that kills innocent civilians in Pakistan and Afghanistan do we need to look at that chicken hawk Joe Biden. The invasion of Iraq was unfinished business from Desert Storm, if it wasn't Bush/Cheney it would have been Gore/Lieberman or Kerry/Edwards. The US acted on credible intelligence with verification from other countries intelligence services. Do we need to wait 5 or 6 years on intelligence and let it pass the test of time before we act on it?

Again. You are drawing no distinction between the launching of missiles, and a massive invasion that has cost thousands of lives and a trillion dollars.

And no, the Iraq war was not based on solid intelligence. It was based on faulty intelligence that was prepared under pressure from the administration. I'm not going to start re-litigating the decision to go to war. Go read something, perhaps the documents that have been released in the UK during their own investigation of the run-up to the Iraq war. You might learn something.

496 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:08:03pm

re: #492 Racer X

I sure do, babe.

Now that reply made me laugh... thank you for that. :-)

... or wait... should I be offended for your patently sexist remark?

497 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:08:45pm

re: #460 albusteve

Commander Cody!
2pts

Well albusteve, at least we can agree on music :)

498 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:08:50pm

re: #484 soxfan4life

Gotcha, all R's are bad all D's can do no wrong.

For fuck's sake, who is bringing up R vs. D. I'm talking about one man here. Dick Cheney. YOU are the one bringing partisan politics into this.

Keep dancing around the issue like a fucking idiot.

499 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:08:56pm

I read less than a tenth of what Charles posted up top.

These people are messed up. They need help.

I doubt they'll seek help; but, they need help.

500 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:09:31pm

re: #481 drcordell

Yes. We had limited renditions under Clinton. But it was absolutely nothing like the massive scale of the Bush (and now Obama) torture program.

Yes, draft dodging is draft dodging. But Cheney takes the cake with his FIVE, count em, FIVE deferments.

And if you cannot see the difference between Clinton's actions in Iraq and Bush/Cheney's, I suggest you look at the number of men killed by each operation. I'm not sure, but I don't believe a single man lost his life launching cruise missiles against Iraq under Clinton's command. Bush sent over 4,000 men to their deaths in Iraq based on a faulty rationale. That is the difference.

And again, you are failing to see the difference between Cheney and Feinstein. Diane Feinstein has made money off of the Iraq war. But she was not the one who decided to launch the invasion in the first place. Can you not see the difference between the two? Dick Cheney was a driving force behind the decision to go to war. Diane Feinstein could not have stopped the Iraq invasion if she tried.

We had far more than 'limited' renditions.

What exactly were the Bush Administrations faulty rationales? Further, Clinton sent plenty of soldiers to their deaths, for far more questionable gains. Somalia and Bosnia ring a bell?

You still seem to have a hard time with Feinsteins enormous and outrageous moral lapses.

I'd bring up American policies in Africa under Bush, but I don't want to embarrass you.

Wanna play some more?

I shall repeat- dirty hands are equally distributed.

501 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:10:10pm

re: #489 Sharmuta

I think Iraq was based on one overall objective- to spread democracy to the middle east as the counter influence to radical islam. Iraq is the center of the ancient caliphate, and now it's a democracy- the antithesis of theocracy. This will be an essential development in the War on Terror in the long term and provide security and stability to the region and hopefully the world.

But be sure to cheapen this important foreign policy objective as "chicken hawking".

Right. We are providing stability to the region by overthrowing the one man who was serving as a check to Iran's power in the region. And replacing him with a government that is a natural religious ally of Iran.

502 shala  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:11:59pm

re: #487 ArdentCapitalist

Apparently I was the only one who DIDN'T know what it meant. For fuck's sake lads, using a word to portray someone as inexperienced, childish, and the like. I guess I'm just too much of a country hick to be finely tuned to the sensitivities of enlightened society. Back where I come from, if someone wanted to be racist towards a black person, they would use far more insulting words that I'm sure you all are aware of that don't need to be listed here.

Don't even try, man. I'm willing to bet my hick credentials outmatch yours, and even I know not to use boy in that context.

503 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:12:50pm

re: #495 drcordell

Again. You are drawing no distinction between the launching of missiles, and a massive invasion that has cost thousands of lives and a trillion dollars.

And no, the Iraq war was not based on solid intelligence. It was based on faulty intelligence that was prepared under pressure from the administration. I'm not going to start re-litigating the decision to go to war. Go read something, perhaps the documents that have been released in the UK during their own investigation of the run-up to the Iraq war. You might learn something.

Actually, we went to war because for once, Bill Clinton told the truth.

Apparently, he knew more than you. Hard to believe, but true.

504 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:13:07pm

Well now that I have racked up a few more negative karma points by being a raging prejudiced racist prick, I shall adjourn for the evening.

Night boys.

505 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:13:17pm

re: #501 drcordell

Right. We are providing stability to the region by overthrowing the one man who was serving as a check to Iran's power in the region. And replacing him with a government that is a natural religious ally of Iran.

Never mind the hundreds of thousands of his own people he murdered for political reasons. And the millions dead because of his actions in trying to invade Iran and Kuwait.

Saddam needed a good killin.

506 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:13:29pm

re: #501 drcordell

Right. We are providing stability to the region by overthrowing the one man who was serving as a check to Iran's power in the region. And replacing him with a government that is a natural religious ally of Iran.

Oh yes- and don't forget his nuclear program!

507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:13:38pm

re: #481 drcordell

Hey, Doc?

Not meaning to but in (actually I guess I do mean to) but you really don't think Clinton or Obama would not have take very similar steps to what Bush did.

9/10/01 cannot be compared with 9/11/01.

I personally think Clinton would have fucked them up too.

Just my opinion.

508 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:13:44pm
509 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:14:28pm

re: #500 researchok

We had far more than 'limited' renditions.

What exactly were the Bush Administrations faulty rationales? Further, Clinton sent plenty of soldiers to their deaths, for far more questionable gains. Somalia and Bosnia ring a bell?

You still seem to have a hard time with Feinsteins enormous and outrageous moral lapses.

I'd bring up American policies in Africa under Bush, but I don't want to embarrass you.

Wanna play some more?

I shall repeat- dirty hands are equally distributed.

Does everyone on this thread immediately start bringing up Diane Feinstein whenever Dick Cheney's name is invoked? I think Feinstein is a morally bankrupt piece of shit just like Cheney and the rest of them. It's getting real, real old watching you construct Democrat strawmen to obfuscate the issue here.

We aren't talking about R vs D. We aren't talking about Clinton's military actions. We aren't talking about Diane Feinstein. We are talking about Dick Cheney.

And no, for the record there is absolutely NO comparison to Clinton's actions in Bosnia and Somalia and the Bush Admin's actions in Iraq. None whatsoever. Both of those actions were extremely limited in scope, and done in the context of humanitarian efforts NOT regime change. Clinton understood that attempting to overthrow a hostile regime would do nothing but waste both blood and treasure, with limited reward.

510 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:14:48pm

re: #505 Racer X

Saddam needed a good killin.

Aaand... he got one!

511 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:14:54pm

re: #501 drcordell

You think we should have left Saddam in power?

512 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:15:19pm

re: #507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey, Doc?

Not meaning to but in (actually I guess I do mean to) but you really don't think Clinton or Obama would not have take very similar steps to what Bush did.

9/10/01 cannot be compared with 9/11/01.

I personally think Clinton would have fucked them up too.

Just my opinion.

CNN agrees with you.

Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance

513 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:15:31pm

re: #509 drcordell

Clinton understood that attempting to overthrow a hostile regime would do nothing but waste both blood and treasure, with limited reward.

Ironically, so did Bush I.

514 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:16:09pm
515 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:16:09pm

re: #507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey, Doc?

Not meaning to but in (actually I guess I do mean to) but you really don't think Clinton or Obama would not have take very similar steps to what Bush did.

9/10/01 cannot be compared with 9/11/01.

I personally think Clinton would have fucked them up too.

Just my opinion.

Explain to me the link between 9/11 and Iraq again? I seem to have forgotten what it is, because it never existed.

Afghanistan, tied to 9/11 and just. No complaints here.

Iraq, not tied to 9/11, unjust. Complaints here. Especially considering we were wasting resources that should have been used to hunt down and BRUTALLY KILL Osama Bin Laden, who is still at large.

516 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:16:40pm

re: #498 drcordell

For fuck's sake, who is bringing up R vs. D. I'm talking about one man here. Dick Cheney. YOU are the one bringing partisan politics into this.

Keep dancing around the issue like a fucking idiot.

With that you go into the ignore everything category.

517 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:16:52pm

re: #514 ArdentCapitalist

Methinks your days are numbered.

518 windsagio  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:17:07pm

re: #514 ArdentCapitalist

Dude, seriously. Let it go.


You're only making yourself look worse now.

519 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:17:30pm

re: #511 Sharmuta

You think we should have left Saddam in power?

Should we have left Saddam Hussein in power? Yes. Just as Bush I decided that it was not worth the cost to overthrow him. And DOUBLE YES because we already had another war that needed our attention! We should have been devoting 100% of our attention to capturing and killing Osama Bin Laden. You know, the man with the blood of 3,000 innocent Americans on his hands.

520 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:18:23pm

re: #517 Racer X

Methinks that the expressions used in a couple of previous posts (one of which you allude to) should be deleted. Period.

521 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:18:27pm

re: #509 drcordell

Does everyone on this thread immediately start bringing up Diane Feinstein whenever Dick Cheney's name is invoked? I think Feinstein is a morally bankrupt piece of shit just like Cheney and the rest of them. It's getting real, real old watching you construct Democrat strawmen to obfuscate the issue here.

We aren't talking about R vs D. We aren't talking about Clinton's military actions. We aren't talking about Diane Feinstein. We are talking about Dick Cheney.

And no, for the record there is absolutely NO comparison to Clinton's actions in Bosnia and Somalia and the Bush Admin's actions in Iraq. None whatsoever. Both of those actions were extremely limited in scope, and done in the context of humanitarian efforts NOT regime change. Clinton understood that attempting to overthrow a hostile regime would do nothing but waste both blood and treasure, with limited reward.

Oh yeah...Saddam's buried weapons programs were no threat.

They were working on advanced fertilization techniques...

See Clinton defends successor's push for war.

Ah, what does Bill Clinton know?

522 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:18:54pm

re: #514 ArdentCapitalist

You're outta here with that one.

523 borgcube  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:19:10pm

re: #514 ArdentCapitalist

I suppose you're just lucky that you didn't happen to say "cotton-pickin' jungle bunny" to get those recruits to shape up.

I suppose so, because the condescending nature of the word "boy" was in fact far more appropriate for someone trying to drive home to a prospective law enforcement officer that such sentiments of wanting to use his sidearm in the line of duty placed him in the idiocy category with the mentally retarded. It was far more apt to call him "boy."

Oi vay.

524 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:19:23pm

re: #504 ArdentCapitalist

Well now that I have racked up a few more negative karma points by being a raging prejudiced racist prick, I shall adjourn for the evening.

Night boys.

Hey, some of us are chicks!

/asshole

re: #514 ArdentCapitalist

You really should learn to use the "quote" function, so that you are only tarred with your own poorly chosen words.

525 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:19:55pm

re: #487 ArdentCapitalist

Apparently I was the only one who DIDN'T know what it meant. For fuck's sake lads, using a word to portray someone as inexperienced, childish, and the like. I guess I'm just too much of a country hick to be finely tuned to the sensitivities of enlightened society. Back where I come from, if someone wanted to be racist towards a black person, they would use far more insulting words that I'm sure you all are aware of that don't need to be listed here.

So let me guess, "lad" - you're from Britain?
Well then why didn't you say so earlier? The "cultural difference" defence may be available, if you wish to plead it.
Asshole.

526 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:20:05pm

I just reported the two JB comments. They should be deleted. Even in facetiousness the words should not be on LGF. This site is above that.

527 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:20:14pm

re: #512 Racer X

CNN agrees with you.

Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance

Right. Except Bush I and Clinton both recognized that the cost of overthrowing Saddam Hussein outweighed the benefits. Why do we have cruise missiles? Because we can just launch them and blow up whatever we want without having to put a single man's life at risk on the battlefield.

If we were THAT concerned about Saddam Hussein on 9/12/01, why not simply blow up every single one of his alleged weapons sites? We knew where they were. It's not like we lacked cruise missiles, stealth bombers and other cool things that go BOOM!

528 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:20:46pm

re: #519 drcordell

Should we have left Saddam Hussein in power? Yes. Just as Bush I decided that it was not worth the cost to overthrow him. And DOUBLE YES because we already had another war that needed our attention! We should have been devoting 100% of our attention to capturing and killing Osama Bin Laden. You know, the man with the blood of 3,000 innocent Americans on his hands.

I'll type slow so you may get it.

OBL was the leader of hundreds of thousands of assholes who wish to kill Americans and destroy the West simply because we are not muslim. Killing OBL was never the primary intention.

529 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:20:54pm

re: #523 borgcube

Oi vay.

Please don't quote things like that.

530 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:21:36pm

re: #521 researchok

Oh yeah...Saddam's buried weapons programs were no threat.

They were working on advanced fertilization techniques...

See Clinton defends successor's push for war.

Ah, what does Bill Clinton know?

Remind me again what weapons we found after we invaded researchok? Where is the hard proof that any of these weapons existed? I'm not talking about pretty UN slideshows with neat little diagrams. I'm talking about what we actually found after we invaded and conquered the entire country. Let's see the proof. Where is it?

531 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:21:57pm

re: #526 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They were not my words... I accidentally deleted the end of the quote function so it looked like my own words.

532 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:22:34pm

re: #519 drcordell

I think it's disgust you would condemn the Iraqis to a dictator. IMO, the reason America is "hated" around the world is precisely because we protect and do business with dictators. We are supposed to be a beacon for those who are oppressed. How does it look when we're shaking hands with the assholes keeping them down? But you go ahead and wish Iraqi women were still in Saddam rape rooms and feel good about yourself.

533 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:22:34pm

re: #451 bosforus

Saying it's way worse, isn't a provable thing, it's just opinion. You can't measure the total hate on both sides because there is so much on both sides, it's immeasurable. It's ludicrous to say one is way worse in my opinion because how do say one person's hatred is more invictive than the other. Is the hatred directed at Obama worse by definition because it has a racial element? It seems like more an argument of proximity in terms of ideology and time, because they are more recent and hit much closer to home (right wing and all) I would say both were batshit crazy, and both were insanely hate-filled. How is crazy comments from commentators on the right more mainstream than commentators on the left, or a senator on the right compared to a senator on the left. Again defining mainstream is extremely subjective. When you are in the middle, it all looks crazy and not so much one moreso than the other.

It just seems that the side that hates the most at the time is the one out of power, and having been a member of the Atrios community for a long time, I can personally attest to the fact that it was equally as bad from my perspective. Charles opinion is different, but I don't see how birthers are any worse than truthers, and I don't see how Obama=hitler is worse than Bush=Hitler, in fact because both arguments are assinine and both sides argued that they were worse than Hitler. If anything how can you not say it's a wash? Will the left be any nicer to the next Republican president (should there ever be one?)

534 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:22:41pm

re: #528 Racer X

I'll type slow so you may get it.

OBL was the leader of hundreds of thousands of assholes who wish to kill Americans and destroy the West simply because we are not muslim. Killing OBL was never the primary intention.

So, Osama Bin Laden attacks the United States. He kills 3,000 innocent Americans. And our primary intention is... not killing him? What?

535 shala  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:23:09pm

re: #528 Racer X

I'll type slow so you may get it.

OBL was the leader of hundreds of thousands of assholes who wish to kill Americans and destroy the West simply because we are not muslim. Killing OBL was never the primary intention.

It wasn't? What is the primary intention then? I'm honestly not being facetious or disingenuous here. I really don't see any other reason for all this than disrupting Al Qaeda and taking out the 9/11 attackers plus OBL.

536 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:23:40pm

re: #504 ArdentCapitalist

Well now that I have racked up a few more negative karma points by being a raging prejudiced racist prick, I shall adjourn for the evening.

Night boys.

I'm a girl. So add "sexist".

537 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:24:08pm

re: #532 Sharmuta

I think it's disgust you would condemn the Iraqis to a dictator. IMO, the reason America is "hated" around the world is precisely because we protect and do business with dictators. We are supposed to be a beacon for those who are oppressed. How does it look when we're shaking hands with the assholes keeping them down? But you go ahead and wish Iraqi women were still in Saddam rape rooms and feel good about yourself.

So if that is the case why didn't Bush Sr. overthrow him when we had the chance? And are the women of Iraq really any better off now? Honestly?

538 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:24:34pm

So let me get back to the point of my original post against the economic policies of this administration...

Who thinks they are going to lead to heavy Democrat losses in the Congress in 2010?

539 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:25:25pm

re: #534 drcordell

re: #535 shala

No, it wasn't. The primary mission was to reduce the threat from terrorists. All of them. OBL including. If he gets caught or killed, great. But there are many more out there with the exact same evil intent. Capturing and killing OBL would have done little to remove the terror threat, in fact it may have increased the threat.

Much better to leave OBL in limbo (IMHO), rather than martyred.

540 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:25:48pm

re: #538 ArdentCapitalist

So let me get back to the point of my original post against the economic policies of this administration...

Who thinks they are going to lead to heavy Democrat losses in the Congress in 2010?

I think there will be moderate GOP pickups in the midterm elections, but nothing massive. Democrats who had gotten themselves elected in GOP-leaning districts are probably in trouble, but that's probably about it.

541 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:26:03pm

re: #537 drcordell

So if that is the case why didn't Bush Sr. overthrow him when we had the chance? And are the women of Iraq really any better off now? Honestly?

Your arguments are weak.

GAZE.

542 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:26:10pm

re: #522 Gus 802

You're outta here with that one.

Just so we're all clear. He was quoting someone else and screwed up the tags:

re: #508 borgcube

543 shala  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:26:50pm

re: #532 Sharmuta

But you go ahead and wish Iraqi women were still in Saddam rape rooms and feel good about yourself.

Sorry to jump in, but I think that's extremely uncalled for. I come down on the side of thinking Hussein should have been taken out (though I question why we needed a ground invasion to do so and severely disagree with how this war has been and continues to be waged) BUT there are huge moral quandaries to the US deciding to take out whichever leaders of sovereign countries we don't like. Someone who comes down on the other side of this issue doesn't deserve to be accused of supporting rape rooms, for God's sake.

544 Gus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:26:52pm

re: #542 RogueOne

Just so we're all clear. He was quoting someone else and screwed up the tags:

re: #508 borgcube

Hmm, OK, thanks.

545 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:26:57pm

re: #539 Racer X

re: #535 shala

No, it wasn't. The primary mission was to reduce the threat from terrorists. All of them. OBL including. If he gets caught or killed, great. But there are many more out there with the exact same evil intent. Capturing and killing OBL would have done little to remove the terror threat, in fact it may have increased the threat.

Much better to leave OBL in limbo (IMHO), rather than martyred.

Right. So it's better off to allow Osama Bin Laden to remain at large, plotting attacks against America and making propaganda videotapes. Are you out of your fucking mind. Wow. Just wow.

546 borgcube  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:27:13pm

re: #529 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Please don't quote things like that.

It was pretty obvious why I used that wasn't it? I think you're being a bit hyper-sensitive here FBV. Sorry to upset you.

547 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:27:13pm

re: #527 drcordell

Right. Except Bush I and Clinton both recognized that the cost of overthrowing Saddam Hussein outweighed the benefits. Why do we have cruise missiles? Because we can just launch them and blow up whatever we want without having to put a single man's life at risk on the battlefield.

If we were THAT concerned about Saddam Hussein on 9/12/01, why not simply blow up every single one of his alleged weapons sites? We knew where they were. It's not like we lacked cruise missiles, stealth bombers and other cool things that go BOOM!

Kinda go all Osirak 1981 on em!

Those two sons, Uday and Qusay would have been a problem to the world eventually.

Ariel Sharon and Bush had a powwow prior to the start of the war when Sharon told him that the Arab world would not accept democracy. And if anyone should know, it's he. That unless you're going to occupy Iraq indefinitely, don't bother. He also told him that if he felt he absolutely had to go in (because obviously, we aren't going to colonize them), a detailed exit strategy had to be in place.

Besides criticism of Sharon, the man knew the Art of War and Bush would have been better off to heed the advice.

548 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:27:38pm

re: #541 Racer X

Your arguments are weak.

GAZE.

MY arguments are weak? Coming from the man who is GLAD that we have not captured or killed Osama Bin Laden! ROFLMAO

549 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:28:17pm

re: #536 Sharmuta

I'm a girl. So add "sexist".

My apologies, had I realized you were of the female gender I would have said folks. However, I am a bit confused as to why you want to call me a sexist. Sexism is a belief in the inherent inferiority or incompetence of one sex/gender over another, and I'm not really sure where I've portrayed that kind of thought process. My comment of "night boys" was in fact a stab at sarcasm.

550 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:28:18pm

re: #545 drcordell

Right. So it's better off to allow Osama Bin Laden to remain at large, plotting attacks against America and making propaganda videotapes. Are you out of your fucking mind. Wow. Just wow.

Last one I promise.

OBL is DEAD.

551 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:28:20pm

re: #530 drcordell

Remind me again what weapons we found after we invaded researchok? Where is the hard proof that any of these weapons existed? I'm not talking about pretty UN slideshows with neat little diagrams. I'm talking about what we actually found after we invaded and conquered the entire country. Let's see the proof. Where is it?

You seem to have missed the point:

You said,
Clinton understood that attempting to overthrow a hostile regime would do nothing but waste both blood and treasure, with limited reward.

And you said

Right. Except Bush I and Clinton both recognized that the cost of overthrowing Saddam Hussein outweighed the benefits

Clearly you are in err. Mr Clinton supported the Bush Administration's war efforts.

We relied on Bill Clinton's administration and the intelligence it produced. That's how things work- a successive president relies on his predecessors.

The issue of WMD's is in reality irrelevant. As Mr Clinton noted, while he believed that Saddma did indeed posses WMD's he also made clear that we could not allow Saddam to have any WMD programs.

Why should that be an acceptable position for Mr Clinton but not Mr Bush?

552 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:28:37pm

re: #547 marjoriemoon

Kinda go all Osirak 1981 on em!

Those two sons, Uday and Qusay would have been a problem to the world eventually.

Ariel Sharon and Bush had a powwow prior to the start of the war when Sharon told him that the Arab world would not accept democracy. And if anyone should know, it's he. That unless you're going to occupy Iraq indefinitely, don't bother. He also told him that if he felt he absolutely had to go in (because obviously, we aren't going to colonize them), a detailed exit strategy had to be in place.

Besides criticism of Sharon, the man knew the Art of War and Bush would have been better off to heed the advice.

I wish we would have heeded Sharon's advice. The man clearly knew what he was talking about.

553 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:28:40pm

re: #531 ArdentCapitalist

Oh! I hate it when that happens.

554 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:28:49pm

re: #537 drcordell

So if that is the case why didn't Bush Sr. overthrow him when we had the chance? And are the women of Iraq really any better off now? Honestly?

Are they better not getting raped by the government? Yes.

Iraqis also seem to think life is improving without saddam.

555 shala  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:29:05pm

re: #539 Racer X

re: #535 shala

No, it wasn't. The primary mission was to reduce the threat from terrorists. All of them. OBL including. If he gets caught or killed, great. But there are many more out there with the exact same evil intent. Capturing and killing OBL would have done little to remove the terror threat, in fact it may have increased the threat.

Much better to leave OBL in limbo (IMHO), rather than martyred.

I have to say that I don't believe this course of action has reduced the threat of terrorists; from my admittedly limited knowledge as a civilian, all I can see is that it's hightened the threat by giving extremist groups a better enemy to point at ("Evil America," etc).

556 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:29:09pm

re: #454 Charles

What is the limit on that? What if we're just talking about how it may seem like the right is worse (which it is far worse right now, I'll give you that) because of the posts. I'm not saying don't post this, or do post that, but just that if all you see is examples of hatred from the right, of course it will look like the right is worse going back and comparing Bush-hatred vs. Obama-hatred. Trying to decide which is worse, seems as meaningless and pointless as hate crime legislation. Why is this murder between two black guys or two white guys any less hate-filled than this one between a white and black or black and asian, etc etc...

557 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:29:32pm

re: #536 Sharmuta

I'm a girl. So add "sexist".

Hey Girl! [finger]

558 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:29:49pm

re: #543 shala

BUT there are huge moral quandaries to the US deciding to take out whichever leaders of sovereign countries we don't like.

We had the UN's backing.

559 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:30:06pm

re: #549 ArdentCapitalist

of the female gender

Well, at least you didn't use 'weaker sex' so maybe there is hope for you after all...

/

560 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:30:07pm

re: #554 Sharmuta

Are they better not getting raped by the government? Yes.

Iraqis also seem to think life is improving without saddam.

I suspect you made the good doctors' blood pressure go up.

561 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:31:10pm

Reminds me of the vile neo nazi stuff that Obama let stand on his web site.
Charles admirably noted it all.

"Here’s yet another disgusting antisemitic page at the official Barack Obama campaign web site, by a group calling itself “Socialists for Obama.” This group of Jew-haters has apparently been at his site since April, and there are numerous comments from Obama supporters that are indistinguishable from the hate speech you’ll find at neo-Nazi sites:"
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

562 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:31:59pm

re: #555 shala

I have to say that I don't believe this course of action has reduced the threat of terrorists; from my admittedly limited knowledge as a civilian, all I can see is that it's hightened the threat by giving extremist groups a better enemy to point at ("Evil America," etc).

America was considered "Evil" long before Bush 41 or 43.

There are (hundreds of?) thousands of DEAD Jihadis right now. Thank you George Bush and Dick Cheney! I appreciate your efforts.

563 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:32:26pm

re: #546 borgcube

Actually, I don't know the context, didn't follow the string all the way up. I just know that any racial epithets used on LGF are never, ever welcome by our host.

That's all I was saying.

564 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:33:19pm

re: #537 drcordell

So if that is the case why didn't Bush Sr. overthrow him when we had the chance? And are the women of Iraq really any better off now? Honestly?

Not really.

Honor killings are way down.

Really sucks.
/

565 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:33:54pm

re: #554 Sharmuta

Are they better not getting raped by the government? Yes.

Iraqis also seem to think life is improving without saddam.

Seems to be a pretty mixed bag. Asked about the invasion 56% of Iraqis said they considered it "absolutely wrong" or "somewhat wrong."

62% also said they believe the Iraqi man who threw his shoe at Bush is a hero.

And I don't see a single question in there that directly asks them if they were better off now or under Saddam. Did you find one that asks that, cause I can't find it?

566 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:34:24pm

re: #555 shala

America's been the great Satan ever since the Soviet Union stopped being the Great Satan. Think of them as you would the fringe in any movement. They have to demonize something or someone, or they won't survive. We could be nice as pie, and we'll be the easiest target for being the "Evil" America. Plus calling it that is more a reflection on your own opinion if you think our actions make it easier to call us that.

567 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:34:53pm

re: #564 researchok

Not really.

Honor killings are way down.

Really sucks.
/

Still waiting for what I asked you for earlier researchok. The WMD evidence that we found after invading and searching the entire country? Remember?

568 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:34:56pm

re: #562 Racer X

America was considered "Evil" long before Bush 41 or 43.

There are (hundreds of?) thousands of DEAD Jihadis right now. Thank you George Bush and Dick Cheney! I appreciate your efforts.

Don't forget Barack Obama and Joe Biden. They are continuing to fuck up the Jihadis!

569 JamesWI  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:34:58pm

re: #538 ArdentCapitalist

So let me get back to the point of my original post against the economic policies of this administration...

Who thinks they are going to lead to heavy Democrat losses in the Congress in 2010?

Depends on a number of factors. If the economy/job situation near the election is comparable to the current situation, then the GOP will definitely pick up a good number seats. If unemployment is down and the economy is up, I'm guessing a lot of people will forget about things like the debt, and the craziness of the Right-wing "base" will be used heavily against them, and there will be no heavy losses for the Dems

570 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:35:01pm

re: #565 drcordell

Do you really think the people would choose saddam over what they have now?

571 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:35:23pm

re: #559 darthstar

Well, at least you didn't use 'weaker sex' so maybe there is hope for you after all...

/

Nope, I happen to have just proposed to the girl of my dreams... no sexism here. Although, I suppose I am a bit of a male chauvinist pig because I think women shouldn't open doors and should be given a jacket in the cold because their lower body mass does tend to lead to the mild beginning symptoms of hypothermia before their male counterparts does.

I hope that shattered all hope in your mind.

572 shala  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:35:25pm

re: #558 Sharmuta

We had the UN's backing.

Did we? I don't remember them ever agreeing on that resolution. But--having UN backing or not doesn't erase the moral quandaries for me.

573 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:36:57pm

re: #571 ArdentCapitalist

Why'd you assume everyone here was male, though?

574 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:37:31pm

re: #570 Sharmuta

Do you really think the people would choose saddam over what they have now?

Be gentle.

I suspect he can't deal with the fact that the wall came down and for some reasons, eastern Europeans want no part of communism.

Of course, what do they know?

575 Lidane  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:37:57pm

re: #95 researchok

Then there was the Bush-concentration camp meme

Which is pure Alex Jones idiocy, and he's now a darling of the Ron Paul crowd and the nirther morons.

Here's the deal: There is no shortage of stupid on either the right or the left.

There's no shortage of stupid just in general. As George Carlin once put it, think of how stupid the average person can be, then realize that half the people are even dumber than that.

576 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:38:39pm

re: #573 obdicut

Why'd you assume everyone here was male, though?

*sheepishly* I always do unless it is obvious by nic or whatever. Well, Sharmuta types like a chick, but other than that...

(hides under desk, covering head)

577 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:39:02pm

re: #571 ArdentCapitalist

Nope, I happen to have just proposed to the girl of my dreams... no sexism here. Although, I suppose I am a bit of a male chauvinist pig because I think women shouldn't open doors and should be given a jacket in the cold because their lower body mass does tend to lead to the mild beginning symptoms of hypothermia before their male counterparts does.

I hope that shattered all hope in your mind.

As a pro-feminist male, I can appreciate your chivalry with women...there's nothing wrong with that, and I do the same, unless it's with someone who doesn't like that kind of treatment. Good luck with your engagement and congrats...just got married a couple months ago myself.

Definitely try to check the 'boy' usage though...I can almost promise you that your fiancé probably won't find it agreeable.

578 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:39:38pm

re: #572 shala

Did we? I don't remember them ever agreeing on that resolution. But--having UN backing or not doesn't erase the moral quandaries for me.

Then I personally think you should rest assured the United States doesn't unilaterally invade other countries simply because we don't like their leader.

If you don't believe me, look at Iran. They committed an act of war, and we haven't invaded them in 30 years. They kill their own people in the streets, and we do nothing. Isn't that as much a moral quandary as anything else?

579 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:39:39pm

re: #573 obdicut

Why'd you assume everyone here was male, though?

"My comment of "night boys" was in fact a stab at sarcasm."

Considering the howling and wailing that I produced here this evening of defending my position to call the president "Our boy, Obama," I thought it was a snarky little thing to say, that's all.

580 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:39:46pm

re: #567 drcordell

Still waiting for what I asked you for earlier researchok. The WMD evidence that we found after invading and searching the entire country? Remember?

Answered here.

581 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:41:20pm

re: #570 Sharmuta

Do you really think the people would choose saddam over what they have now?

I can't say, I'm not an Iraqi. But either situation doesn't really seem ideal. Living under a dictator vs. living under a military occupation in a nation torn apart by religious violence and terrorist violence.

The point is this, it was never up for debate whether or not Saddam Hussein was an evil, evil man. The question is, why did we invade Iraq? First it was claimed that he was an imminent threat to the US because of WMD. This has been disproven. Now the rationale seems to be that Saddam needed to be overthrown because he was evil.

There are plenty of sadistic despots ruling with brutal regimes around the world. North Korea. Burma. Kenya. Darfur. (China you could probably include here as well) But we haven't taken it upon ourselves to invade any of these other nations. Because we don't have the money, resources or will to do so. Why was Iraq any different?

582 darthstar  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:41:22pm

re: #576 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

*sheepishly* I always do unless it is obvious by nic or whatever. Well, Sharmuta types like a chick, but other than that...

(hides under desk, covering head)

I never assume, but do pay attention to nicknames and writing style. Usually, it's easy to figure out if you pay attention to what people are saying. Though someone like Michele Bachmann would be hard to figure out if she wrote here.

583 shala  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:41:23pm

re: #566 robdouth

re: #562 Racer X

America was considered "Evil" long before Bush 41 or 43.

Oh, of course it was. I won't argue that for a second. But taking the course of action we did allows them to point to us as a violent, militaristic invading force. It's much easier for a man to dismiss the "America is Evil" argument if his brother hasn't been killed by collateral damage in Iraq.

584 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:41:42pm

re: #579 ArdentCapitalist

So you're an ex-Marine peace officer that comes from somewhere that has much worse insults for black people than 'boy', but you were unaware of the racial aspects of calling a black man boy.

Got it.

585 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:42:19pm

re: #574 researchok

Be gentle.

I suspect he can't deal with the fact that the wall came down and for some reasons, eastern Europeans want no part of communism.

Of course, what do they know?

STILL waiting for you to back up any of your previous assertions about WMD. You insist we invaded Iraq because of WMD. Yet you can't provide a single piece of evidence that proves Saddam did in fact have them. If it's so obvious where is your proof?

586 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:42:30pm

re: #567 drcordell

Christ Almighty, can't you take this argument back to 2003, and realize that reasonable people can disagree on the reasoning, decision and outcome of Iraq and whether it was a good or bad idea. Cherry-picking reasoning and facts and omitting the other sides valid arguments, makes the whole damn argument look uber-dumb. You all lost me at Rape Rooms and where are the WMD's. Why don't the rest of you guys just start yelling Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, and I'll shave my head and be the big bald guy who breaks up the pseudo-intellectual internet rednecks.

587 shala  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:43:50pm

re: #578 Sharmuta

Then I personally think you should rest assured the United States doesn't unilaterally invade other countries simply because we don't like their leader.

If you don't believe me, look at Iran. They committed an act of war, and we haven't invaded them in 30 years. They kill their own people in the streets, and we do nothing. Isn't that as much a moral quandary as anything else?

Of course. There are moral issues both in action and inaction in these situations. That's why I took issue with you calling someone who disagreed with you a rape supporter. None of this is black and white.

588 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:44:04pm

re: #580 researchok

Answered here.

A single quote from Bill Clinton in 2004 while the invasion was still under way? No, sorry. That's not going to cut it chief. There are plenty of official reports detailing exactly what we found. The problem for you is, they state that we didn't find anything.

589 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:44:59pm

re: #583 shala

Fair enough, but it also gives cover to the left to call us Evil and militaristic, which has been said about everything since Korea basically, with maybe the exception of Clinton

590 JamesWI  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:46:08pm

Man, I'm trying to read through the Hovind dissertation, but I keep having to stop, at times because it is so hilarious, and at times because I'm so disgusted that a large number of people actually believe this crap.

591 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:46:49pm

re: #577 darthstar

As a pro-feminist male, I can appreciate your chivalry with women...there's nothing wrong with that, and I do the same, unless it's with someone who doesn't like that kind of treatment. Good luck with your engagement and congrats...just got married a couple months ago myself.

Definitely try to check the 'boy' usage though...I can almost promise you that your fiancé probably won't find it agreeable.

Thanks darthstar, I appreciate that, I really do. For you, and for all the other folks out here on this thread who have thought I've been a raging prick tonight, please accept my apologies regarding my apparent racism. I still am a bit shocked at how much sensitivity it has drummed up.

Perhaps I should take an example from our b... errr... our man Obama, and invite you all to have a beer. Beer truly does soften political arguments, at least amongst my friends it does anyway.

592 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:47:01pm

re: #587 shala

Bless you, that's the smartest thing anyone's said during this. It's black and white in these too arguments when as always the answer is a little gray and the case could be made both ways. I believed at the time that Iraq was a great idea, but I'm definitely sympathetic to the other viewpoint in hindsight. Still think the net gain is positive, but these aren't exactly stock options where you can cash them all out and see what your balance is and whether you're positive or negative in total.

593 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:47:35pm

re: #579 ArdentCapitalist

"My comment of "night boys" was in fact a stab at sarcasm."

Considering the howling and wailing that I produced here this evening of defending my position to call the president "Our boy, Obama," I thought it was a snarky little thing to say, that's all.

You can't use the word in relation to an African American man. Ever. These are the rules of the society we live in. You don't like the rules, you'll get yelled at and quite possibly worse. Even if you say, "Our boy, Bush" it will never have the same meaning as said to a Black man.

Years ago, in my scooter tramp days, I dated a fellow who wore a Tshirt of the map of Japan and across it was "One bomb wasn't enough." If you're a Harley biker, you know the "joke" was that Harley's are much better than Japanese bikes and worn at a Harley rally, no one blinked an eye, but anywhere else? I mean really... how horrible is that. So one day I snuck into his room, took the shirt out of the drawer and tossed it. What a little shit I am. Never said a word. He's probably still wondering what happened to it.

594 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:47:40pm

re: #586 robdouth

Christ Almighty, can't you take this argument back to 2003, and realize that reasonable people can disagree on the reasoning, decision and outcome of Iraq and whether it was a good or bad idea. Cherry-picking reasoning and facts and omitting the other sides valid arguments, makes the whole damn argument look uber-dumb. You all lost me at Rape Rooms and where are the WMD's. Why don't the rest of you guys just start yelling Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, and I'll shave my head and be the big bald guy who breaks up the pseudo-intellectual internet rednecks.

Reasonable people could, and did, disagree about the initiation of the Iraq War in 2003. When the intelligence was a matter of dispute, and not something that could have been proven empirically.

It is now 2009. The questions that remained unanswered in 2003 have now been answered conclusively. The WMD's that were purported to exist did not. This is not opinion, it is FACT.

Now, why I am so outraged is because there are still a large, large number of people in this country that do not know this. Whether it is because they have not been given the proper information, or have chosen to ignore it, I do not know.

But I am incredulous at the fact that I can sit here in December of 2009 and listen to people frame this debate like we are still in the year 2003.

595 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:47:49pm

re: #588 drcordell

A single quote from Bill Clinton in 2004 while the invasion was still under way? No, sorry. That's not going to cut it chief. There are plenty of official reports detailing exactly what we found. The problem for you is, they state that we didn't find anything.

Actually, Clinton never walked away from his position.

But, what does he know?

I shall repeat:

Clearly you are in err. Mr Clinton supported the Bush Administration's war efforts.

We relied on Bill Clinton's administration and the intelligence it produced. That's how things work- a successive president relies on his predecessors.

The issue of WMD's is in reality irrelevant. As Mr Clinton noted, while he believed that Saddma did indeed posses WMD's he also made clear that we could not allow Saddam to have any WMD programs.

Why should that be an acceptable position for Mr Clinton but not Mr Bush?

596 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:49:55pm

re: #584 obdicut

So you're an ex-Marine peace officer that comes from somewhere that has much worse insults for black people than 'boy', but you were unaware of the racial aspects of calling a black man boy.

Got it.

Nope, I'm a former Marine, never a peace officer but did have the privilege of training law enforcement officer recruits. Yes, I am aware of far worse insults to call a black person, as I'm sure any person who doesn't live under a rock is, and yes, I was unaware that condescendingly calling someone boy was racist. It might be condescending, but not racist. Are we clear?

597 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:51:06pm

re: #581 drcordell

First it was claimed that he was an imminent threat to the US because of WMD. This has been disproven. Now the rationale seems to be that Saddam needed to be overthrown because he was evil.

To be clear- both of these were reasons to oust saddam. But before this you said:

The point is this, it was never up for debate whether or not Saddam Hussein was an evil, evil man. The question is, why did we invade Iraq?

I think the point is this is moot. We were talking up thread about Katrina and how mistakes were made, we investigate and try to improve what we can. We had multiple reasons for going after saddam, but harping on this point it moot now. We are there, what is done is done. But this point about the WMDs is nothing but a hammer to use against Bush and Cheney.

I think there was far more to this decision than your chicken hawking claim, and it's simplistic and offensive to chalk it up to such shallowness. This sort of shallowness you project on the former administration is no better than the shallowness projected on our current President. I think both Bush and Obama are doing what they think is best for our country, and to think that they would consider American Treasure to be cheap is as disgusting from the ODS crowd as it is from the BDS crowd.

598 shala  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:51:15pm

re: #592 robdouth

Thanks, robdouth.

599 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:51:32pm

re: #594 drcordell

Sorry, but this is BS. There is not a large number, unless anything over a couple dozen people, or those who literally pay no attention count in this. The percentage is probably far short of truthers or birthers, and that's equally if not moreso insane. I believe in fact that many more people think there never was anything, than believe that we found something. I still don't know exactly what to think because both sides are so f-ing nasty about it and no one usually bothers with providing an argument, it just turns into angry shouting like Steve Correll in Anchorman and it sound like LOUD NOISES to me.

There's no way unless you can site a poll that you'll get me to believe "a large number" still believe that. Again unless you define to me what a large number is. Plus idiocy is not proof of anything but idiocy.

600 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:52:02pm

re: #567 drcordell

Still waiting for what I asked you for earlier researchok. The WMD evidence that we found after invading and searching the entire country? Remember?

Sadaam tried to kill Bush Sr. He also bragged that he used to pay USD$20,000 to the family members of each Palestinian suicide bomber who blew themselves up in Israel.

601 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:52:14pm

re: #595 researchok

Attempting to "debate" you is like banging my head against the wall. Either you are completely illiterate, or simply feign ignorance. The quotes you keep throwing at me are BILL CLINTON TALKING ABOUT IRAQI WMD IN THE YEAR 2004. There have been quite a few developments since then.

I don't give a fuck what Clinton quoted to CNN in the year 2004. I give a fuck about what evidence of WMD our troops found after we had invaded and searched the entire nation of Iraq. Can you understand that?

Either give me some evidence that we did find stockpiles of WMD, or acknowledge that we did not find any.

602 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:52:21pm

re: #586 robdouth

Style up-ding!

603 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:53:28pm

re: #596 ArdentCapitalist

I don't know a single person who doesn't know that calling a black person "boy" is a bad idea. I certainly know that all of the Marines I know know that fact, and I know that every police officer I know knows that fact. So, I have to consider that you've either managed to avoid learning something that simple your entire life, or you're being dishonest. Either way, it doesn't make think well of you-- especially when it's in a long rant of half-truths and hyperbole.

Are we clear?

604 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:56:14pm

re: #603 obdicut

I don't know a single person who doesn't know that calling a black person "boy" is a bad idea. I certainly know that all of the Marines I know know that fact, and I know that every police officer I know knows that fact. So, I have to consider that you've either managed to avoid learning something that simple your entire life, or you're being dishonest. Either way, it doesn't make think well of you-- especially when it's in a long rant of half-truths and hyperbole.

Are we clear?

As a crystal. By the way... where were the half-truths? I understand that many may think of my statements as hyperbolic (shame too... I always preferred the parabola), but where exactly did I attempt to circumvent the truth?

605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:57:06pm

re: #593 marjoriemoon

Oh, Gosh! A scooter tramp with a heart of gold!

606 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:57:08pm

re: #603 obdicut

With all due respect, I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't realize there was any racial tension in the world until I moved out of Mississippi as a kid in the 80's. Everyone got along, and there were old guys that called everyone boy. I think everywhere else, where it's not common it has a racial tinge to it. But growing up a boy in Mississippi, you get called one regardless of race. It wasn't until I moved to the Northeast and the bastions of liberalism that I was taught that white people and black people hate each other, and if I said I didn't, I was a denying racist, or something like that. Racism in the northeast is like alcoholism. You are either a recovering admitted alcoholic/racist, or you just haven't admitted and started the healing process. The next 11 of the 12 steps are painful and involve heavy doses of diversity training.

607 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:57:14pm

re: #597 Sharmuta

I think the point is this is moot. We were talking up thread about Katrina and how mistakes were made, we investigate and try to improve what we can. We had multiple reasons for going after saddam, but harping on this point it moot now. We are there, what is done is done. But this point about the WMDs is nothing but a hammer to use against Bush and Cheney.

I think there was far more to this decision than your chicken hawking claim, and it's simplistic and offensive to chalk it up to such shallowness. This sort of shallowness you project on the former administration is no better than the shallowness projected on our current President. I think both Bush and Obama are doing what they think is best for our country, and to think that they would consider American Treasure to be cheap is as disgusting from the ODS crowd as it is from the BDS crowd.

I'd love to agree with you, and to a certain degree I do. I don't believe Bush was a man who would purposefully do anything that he believed to be against the best interests of our nation. Cheney however, I am not willing to extend that courtesy.

The man was the driving force behind a war that subsequently facilitated multi-billion dollar no bid contracts to the company that he was the CEO of just three years prior. Is that a huge coincidence? I don't know. But I'm certainly not about to give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially considering all that has come out about his active role in pushing our intelligence agencies to produce favorable intelligence supporting his views. And the new evidence that is slowly coming to light via the UK's investigation into the Iraq war that shows we were literally beginning to plan the invasion of Iraq just days after 9/11.

608 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:57:25pm

re: #603 obdicut

I don't know a single person who doesn't know that calling a black person "boy" is a bad idea. I certainly know that all of the Marines I know know that fact, and I know that every police officer I know knows that fact. So, I have to consider that you've either managed to avoid learning something that simple your entire life, or you're being dishonest. Either way, it doesn't make think well of you-- especially when it's in a long rant of half-truths and hyperbole.

Are we clear?

And he called us "lads". That is Brit.

609 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:58:05pm

re: #601 drcordell

I'm not aware of any stockpiles of WMD's. So what? That changes nothing.

You can't con your way out of your earlier remarks and you can't con anyomne else into believing that Saddam was no problem pre Bush.

Have a nice day.

610 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:58:58pm

re: #604 ArdentCapitalist

I don't care as much for parabola, because what goes up must come down, not the other way around.

Also Hyperbole is the greatest thing in the whole universe ever, so there's that!

611 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 4:59:28pm

re: #609 researchok

I'm not aware of any stockpiles of WMD's. So what? That changes nothing.

You can't con your way out of your earlier remarks and you can't con anyomne else into believing that Saddam was no problem pre Bush.

Have a nice day.

Right. It changes nothing except for the entire rationale that was used to convince the American public to spent 4,000 lives and 1 Trillion dollars invading Iraq.

612 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:00:00pm

re: #604 ArdentCapitalist

Your post was deleted, so I can't cite it, but pretending that the majority of the spending under Obama has been his, rather than a carry-over from Bush's term, is the chief half-truth that you were pushing.

Are you, in fact, a former Royal Marine, and not an American?

613 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:00:03pm

re: #608 Spare O'Lake

And he called us "lads". That is Brit.

Actually folks from the Emerald Isle also use it on occasion, and I digress, my heritage hails from that land (born here however)... and, no, I'm not 5th-generation twice removed. My lovely grandmother Mary Katherine was born there.

614 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:00:25pm

re: #607 drcordell

Cheney however, I am not willing to extend that courtesy.

And that's why I said you have Cheney Derangement Syndrome.

We're not a perfect country. People f*ck up and we had bad intelligence. We are there now and I think the region is better off without saddam, so I think you should let it go and move on, is all I'm saying. Bitterly clinging to Cheney hate isn't going to impress anyone.

615 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:02:37pm

re: #611 drcordell

Again are you at least of the belief that the intelligence was faulty, or are you a Bush lied people died kinda guy, because if the latter, then the conversation is over before it begins. Knowing what we know now, yeah it's blah blah blah, but that's all hindsight. I don't know how many times in my personal life I've thought, well if I knew that, I'd never have done this.
No WMD's, but not finding them after the fact, doesn't change the rationale, it just changes whether or not the rationale was valid. So when the guy says so what, he is kinda more accurate than you because it was the rationale, but when it proved to be false (which could only be proven or disproven by going in and not finding them really) then by then it is a moot point.

616 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:02:56pm

re: #606 robdouth

With all due respect, I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't realize there was any racial tension in the world until I moved out of Mississippi as a kid in the 80's. Everyone got along, and there were old guys that called everyone boy. I think everywhere else, where it's not common it has a racial tinge to it. But growing up a boy in Mississippi, you get called one regardless of race. It wasn't until I moved to the Northeast and the bastions of liberalism that I was taught that white people and black people hate each other, and if I said I didn't, I was a denying racist, or something like that. Racism in the northeast is like alcoholism. You are either a recovering admitted alcoholic/racist, or you just haven't admitted and started the healing process. The next 11 of the 12 steps are painful and involve heavy doses of diversity training.

You are so full of shit it's dripping right off the monitor.

617 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:03:23pm

re: #614 Sharmuta

And that's why I said you have Cheney Derangement Syndrome.

We're not a perfect country. People f*ck up and we had bad intelligence. We are there now and I think the region is better off without saddam, so I think you should let it go and move on, is all I'm saying. Bitterly clinging to Cheney hate isn't going to impress anyone.

If Cheney didn't personally stand to make millions upon millions of dollars because of a "fuck up" I'd agree with you. But I wasn't born yesterday, and I'm not ready to simply let the guy have a "pass" on something that has been so disastrous for our nation, yet so enriching for him personally.

618 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:03:24pm

re: #612 obdicut

Your post was deleted, so I can't cite it, but pretending that the majority of the spending under Obama has been his, rather than a carry-over from Bush's term, is the chief half-truth that you were pushing.

Are you, in fact, a former Royal Marine, and not an American?

Aside from TARP, I am unaware that the other spending programs were "carry overs" from Dubya... being unaware of something or ignorant of it does not make it a half truth. Please, enlighten me, as I am quite aware of the projected budget deficits of the Obama administration.

No, I am not a former Royal Marine... I did however serve with them. They are, from an American... a good bunch of lads.

619 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:03:25pm

re: #600 Spare O'Lake

Sadaam tried to kill Bush Sr. He also bragged that he used to pay USD$20,000 to the family members of each Palestinian suicide bomber who blew themselves up in Israel.

He also had Al Queda training camps in Iraq. They say there's absolutely positively no connection, but there were some connections. But I don't think enough to go to war. I say that after having supported Bush (as a liberal) in the war for many years, but in retrospect is was wrong. I trusted Bush, why I'm not sure, to do the right thing. Condi said to Tim Russert, I remember it quite clearly, we'd go in and get out. Didn't happen. That's one hell of an apple cart to upset without a clear plan.

David Kay, as late as 1999 or 2000 said himself the UN inspectors didn't have any idea what Sadaam had or didn't have by way of nuclear weapons. More telling, they couldn't find any waste and didn't know where he was putting it. That was because there wasn't any, but we didn't know it then. The inspectors were in there 12 odd years and still couldn't get a clear read on what was there. We know why now.

620 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:03:56pm

re: #614 Sharmuta

It's also no more healthy than the assclowns who can't let trutherism, birtherism, or Obama hate go. At some point you just have to walk away from the table and go smoke a cigar, or play with your kids, or do something to make yourself happier.

621 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:04:34pm

Yellow Cake.

google

622 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:04:45pm

re: #611 drcordell

Right. It changes nothing except for the entire rationale that was used to convince the American public to spent 4,000 lives and 1 Trillion dollars invading Iraq.

What are you talking about? That remark is absurd. The WMD rationale was accepted by Bush, the Clinton administration and virtually the entire European community.

As Mr Clinton noted, it wasn't only about existing WMD's- it was about Saddams ability to reconstitute WMD programs.

Suppose Obama's economic programs fail.

Does that disentangle them from the previous administrations economic failures?

Think doc, think.

623 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:05:07pm

re: #616 Spare O'Lake

How can I be full of shit for expressing what happened to me as a kid? Maybe I'm missing something, but that's what it was like in Gulfport MS.

624 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:05:16pm

re: #621 Racer X

Yellow Cake.

MMMmmm... cake.

625 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:07:36pm

cathc you guys later, gotta go pick up the dry cleaning and turn the crock pot off so the chili doesn't burn. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail when I'm gone. Also, I'll clean the shit off the monitor i guess?

626 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:07:41pm

re: #615 robdouth

Again are you at least of the belief that the intelligence was faulty, or are you a Bush lied people died kinda guy, because if the latter, then the conversation is over before it begins. Knowing what we know now, yeah it's blah blah blah, but that's all hindsight. I don't know how many times in my personal life I've thought, well if I knew that, I'd never have done this.
No WMD's, but not finding them after the fact, doesn't change the rationale, it just changes whether or not the rationale was valid. So when the guy says so what, he is kinda more accurate than you because it was the rationale, but when it proved to be false (which could only be proven or disproven by going in and not finding them really) then by then it is a moot point.

There is a large, large amount of evidence that has come out indicating that the administration had its sights set on Iraq during the immediate aftermath of 9/11. And that based on this desire to invade Iraq, pressure was placed upon our intelligence services to assist in making the case for the invasion of Iraq.

Now, that being said, I do believe that Bush had legitimate reasons that he wanted to invade Iraq. One of them being that he wished to succeed where his father had failed. And also that he truly believed that America had a responsibility to liberate the people of Iraq and spread democracy. I also believe that Dick Cheney saw an opportunity for personal gain. And that Dick Cheney was one of the strongest advocates for an invasion of Iraq from day one.

627 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:07:45pm

re: #620 robdouth

It's also no more healthy than the assclowns who can't let trutherism, birtherism, or Obama hate go. At some point you just have to walk away from the table and go smoke a cigar, or play with your kids, or do something to make yourself happier.

And I've stated so repeatedly. It's just it cuts both ways, see. I no more think Dick Cheney is a cold-hearted monster than I do Obama.

628 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:09:19pm

re: #618 ArdentCapitalist

Okay, now I just don't like you for ellipses abuse.

I'm not going to spend time debunking your deleted post. You asked what the half-truths in it were, I told you the biggest one.

But you can look at this:

From Cato, for your non-kneejerk-rejection pleasure

629 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:09:41pm

re: #382 rwmofo

Speaking of comments, I posted one on a Sarah-hating thread last night and made it all the way to 4th place (currently) in the "Bottom Comments" section here, successfully exceeding my personal objective.

I'd like to thank all the down-dingers, but to be fair want to thank the minority of up-dingers as well.

Heh.

Ahah cool man but we probably messed up your fight for most Bottomie thread. It also might be a first with me and Mandy on the same side of a ding. Miracles do happen!

Additionally, I went back and checked that post, just to be sure it was the right comment and... it made me laugh again. That shit was funny, but probably too early to be truly appreciated.

630 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:10:01pm

re: #622 researchok

What are you talking about? That remark is absurd. The WMD rationale was accepted by Bush, the Clinton administration and virtually the entire European community.

As Mr Clinton noted, it wasn't only about existing WMD's- it was about Saddams ability to reconstitute WMD programs.

Suppose Obama's economic programs fail.

Does that disentangle them from the previous administrations economic failures?

Think doc, think.

I'm failing to comprehend exactly what your point is here?

631 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:10:02pm

Alright lads, ladies, folks, gentlemen... boys... whichever applies to you... it's been great, but I've got a date with a lovely lady wearing a diamond ring at a pub/bar/taproom/dive or whatever you'd like to call it.

Sorry I've been so patently insensitive with my poor attempt at sarcasm tonight.

632 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:10:19pm

Didn't Clinton already have a plan in place to go back into Iraq? Because Saddam was continuing to be an asshole in spite of the many U.N. sanctions?

633 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:10:27pm

re: #626 drcordell

There is a large, large amount of evidence that has come out indicating that the administration had its sights set on Iraq during the immediate aftermath of 9/11. And that based on this desire to invade Iraq, pressure was placed upon our intelligence services to assist in making the case for the invasion of Iraq.

What evidence?

The only clear evidence was the intelligence from the previous administration.

634 robdouth  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:10:59pm

re: #626 drcordell

Ok, I would just recommend that with the number of times you used the words believed, maybe it's not a hill you want to die on. Proof is one thing, what you believe is another. I personally don't begrudge anyone there beliefs, but hunches, beliefs and the like, aren't as persuasive to me. I can see the case being made, but I don't believe (there I go) that people are that malicious and profit driven as to sink the entire country into a shithole of a war just for a couple bucks, especially not when they come in wealthy already. Tell me they are power-hungry idiots trying to crreate a legacy, and while I won't probably believe it, it's more likely to me than money.

635 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:11:31pm

re: #628 obdicut

Okay, now I just don't like you for ellipses abuse.

I'm not going to spend time debunking your deleted post. You asked what the half-truths in it were, I told you the biggest one.

But you can look at this:

From Cato, for your non-kneejerk-rejection pleasure

I'm a huge fan of Cato, I'll give it a read.

Quite simply, what spending program other than TARP was a carry-over from Bush, aside from the existing entitlement programs?

636 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:13:07pm

re: #618 ArdentCapitalist

the auto bailout was kicked down the road from the Bush administration purely so that it wasn't going to be in his presidential Library records...

and there was a stimulus bill in 2008...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

637 Bloodnok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:13:09pm

re: #632 Racer X

Didn't Clinton already have a plan in place to go back into Iraq? Because Saddam was continuing to be an asshole in spite of the many U.N. sanctions?

Bu-bu-but LIED rhymes with DIED. It freaking rhymes!

//

638 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:14:00pm

re: #631 ArdentCapitalist

Alright lads, ladies, folks, gentlemen... boys... whichever applies to you... it's been great, but I've got a date with a lovely lady wearing a diamond ring at a pub/bar/taproom/dive or whatever you'd like to call it.

Sorry I've been so patently insensitive with my poor attempt at sarcasm tonight.

You survived a gauntlet... maybe there's hope for you yet.

639 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:14:09pm

re: #628 obdicut

Okay, now I just don't like you for ellipses abuse.

Don't get me wrong... I'm a huge fan of the ellipses, but coming from a huge amateur astronomy buff with a 12.5" Newtonian telescope, I haven't much use for the Elipses, and I can't really afford the Hyperbolic nature of the Ritchey-Cretian. For me, the parabolic nature of things is alll right :-)

640 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:14:25pm

re: #409 drcordell

Because Ben Hur has clearly shown himself to be a man who is beyond persuasion.

I know it's easy to get frustrated but the guy was at least trying to have a civil debate with me earlier. I'll give him that much.

641 researchok  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:14:51pm

re: #630 drcordell

I'm failing to comprehend exactly what your point is here?

My point is that Bush had to rely on Clinton era assessments and intelligence. You cannot divorce Bush from that reality any more than you could divorce Obama from the economic realities that preceded him.

Obama has to deal with one kind of legacy. Mr Bush had to deal with another.

I am curious- do you believe Bush helped plan and execute 9/11 or had any forewarning?

642 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:15:05pm

re: #635 ArdentCapitalist

Dude, go look it up. Since you have no clue, why are you making long ranty posts about it?

643 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:15:28pm

re: #634 robdouth

Ok, I would just recommend that with the number of times you used the words believed, maybe it's not a hill you want to die on. Proof is one thing, what you believe is another. I personally don't begrudge anyone there beliefs, but hunches, beliefs and the like, aren't as persuasive to me. I can see the case being made, but I don't believe (there I go) that people are that malicious and profit driven as to sink the entire country into a shithole of a war just for a couple bucks, especially not when they come in wealthy already. Tell me they are power-hungry idiots trying to crreate a legacy, and while I won't probably believe it, it's more likely to me than money.

I would love to agree with you, but that's just not how the world works. When you get $2 million, you want $10 million. When you get $10 million, you want $100 million. And when you want $100 million you want $200 million. That's just human nature. Being rich doesn't mean you can't be greedy. In fact they often go hand in hand.

644 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:16:59pm

re: #642 obdicut

Dude, go look it up. Since you have no clue, why are you making long ranty posts about it?

Long ranty posts? The auto bailout was (to many folks' objection) derived from TARP funds... am I wrong?

645 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:17:20pm

re: #640 Locker

I heart Ben.

646 drcordell  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:17:29pm

re: #641 researchok

My point is that Bush had to rely on Clinton era assessments and intelligence. You cannot divorce Bush from that reality any more than you could divorce Obama from the economic realities that preceded him.

Obama has to deal with one kind of legacy. Mr Bush had to deal with another.

I am curious- do you believe Bush helped plan and execute 9/11 or had any forewarning?

I believe that there were systematic intelligence failures throughout the U.S. government that led to 9/11. But no, I don't think Bush knew about 9/11 and let it happen. And I don't think Bush planned 9/11.

647 ArdentCapitalist  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:18:39pm

obdicut, we'll save this for another time. I gotta run.

Night all. (All as in... everyone... lads, ladies, gentlemen, girls, and yes... boys)

648 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:21:03pm

re: #647 ArdentCapitalist

obdicut, we'll save this for another time. I gotta run.

Night all. (All as in... everyone... lads, ladies, gentlemen, girls, and yes... boys)

Fuck right off.

649 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:21:54pm

re: #626 drcordell

Hussein stuck a large sign on Iraq saying "beware of WMD" even though he didn't have any. He intentionally put out false intelligence of WMD capabilities.
His purpose in doing so was to intimidate Iran, only he didn't plan on other consequences.

On the legal side, Iraq had violated the ceasefire of 1991 by the attempted assassination of Bush I, the attempts to shoot down US jets in the "no fly" zone, his ejection of WMD investigators from the UN.
All were violations of that ceasefire. In a strict legal sense, all those violations terminated the ceasefire and would mean that a state of war existed before the invasion.

What happened was 9/11, which heightened, to the extreme, a sense that the rogue dictator would aid the same people who attacked us, get WMD for use in another attack.

Your allegations that Cheney conspired to make war on Iraq to fill his personal bank account is pure Cheney derangement syndrome.
If you have evidence to that effect, you should contact the Attorney General's office immediately and present that evidence.

650 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:24:41pm

re: #623 robdouth

How can I be full of shit for expressing what happened to me as a kid? Maybe I'm missing something, but that's what it was like in Gulfport MS.

I don't believe your little fairy tale.

651 palomino  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:25:26pm

Sure, there was hateful rhetoric on the left when Bush was prez. But to suggest this is all a wash between left and right is pretty ignorant.

There's a strong theme in these right wing comments that just didn't exist in the left wing blogosphere. Namely an appeal to overt violence: that the military, law enforcement, and angry citizens should somehow come together to create a
Second Revolution or Second Civil War or whatever these fanatics want to call it.

It's a violent fantasy that the left just did not engage in.

652 What, me worry?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:25:38pm

re: #641 researchok

My point is that Bush had to rely on Clinton era assessments and intelligence. You cannot divorce Bush from that reality any more than you could divorce Obama from the economic realities that preceded him.

Obama has to deal with one kind of legacy. Mr Bush had to deal with another.

I am curious- do you believe Bush helped plan and execute 9/11 or had any forewarning?

I don't buy "it's Clinton's fault" at all, particularly like I said, the UN Inspectors working in Iraq under his administration reported to Clinton that they did NOT know what Hussein had or didn't have. That's not sufficient intelligence to invade unless you have other agendas.

I encourage you all to read PBS. They did a superb job at Iraq's history. The below link was written prior to 2000. Read the Kurd's story and the interviews. You'll recognize some names there. It's a lot of material, but very enlightening.

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

This is the whole series. [Link: www.pbs.org...]

653 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:26:41pm

Laters gators

654 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:29:29pm

re: #570 Sharmuta

Do you really think the people would choose saddam over what they have now?

Absolutely. In fact I just saw an episode of "This American Life" featuring a guy from Iraq going around asking Americans what they think of the war. They kept telling him he should be happy that he is free now. He asked "What is freedom? You say Saddam was bad but before the war we had jobs, I went to school we had services, etc etc. Now we have nothing, car bombs going off, you can't go out, you can't walk down the street, etc."

It's kind of hard to sell the freedom angle when the real life changes are so bad.

This American Life - Two Wars - Part 1/2
This American Life - Two Wars - Part 2/2

655 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:31:46pm

re: #570 Sharmuta

There are between 250,000 and 600,000 fewer Iraqi's to ask since this whole thing started...

656 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:32:46pm
657 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:32:55pm

re: #654 Locker

I'm certain you can find people in Iraq who think life was better under saddam. I think the majority wouldn't want him back despite their hardships.

658 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:34:48pm

re: #657 Sharmuta

I'm certain you can find people in Iraq who think life was better under saddam. I think the majority wouldn't want him back despite their hardships.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think people like to tell themselves that to feel better about what we did. I highly recommend you watch those two linked videos. It's a Showtime documentary series.

659 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:35:51pm

re: #514 ArdentCapitalist

I was waiting to see if you would back down. Instead you're digging in. Bye now!

660 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:37:29pm

re: #658 Locker

Well- you can look at that poll I linked earlier, and most Iraqis think life will be better for their children. I think that's a positive sign. (I think you should read some books about life in saddam's prisons.)

661 Locker  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:42:21pm

re: #660 Sharmuta

Well- you can look at that poll I linked earlier, and most Iraqis think life will be better for their children. I think that's a positive sign. (I think you should read some books about life in saddam's prisons.)

I'm aware of quite a bit actually but what's the comparison? We blew up their cities, again, and occupied their country which resulted in approximately 100,000 civilian deaths... so far.

[Link:iraqbodycount.org ]

662 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:43:34pm

re: #658 Locker

P.S. I worked for GE when they built Baghdad two water filtration systems. They now have clean drinking water. GE also trained Iraqis to maintain their own system, as well as working in the region to getting these systems installed in other countries. I realize Iraq's a mixed bag, but for all the bad you hear, there is good you probably not hearing about at all.

663 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:44:23pm

re: #660 Sharmuta

Saddam's prisons were pretty gosh darn bad and so are the hundreds of little cells under buildings all over the country integral to the ethnic cleansing and kidnap/torture & extorsion rackets that the vacuum of authority unleashed.

664 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:46:45pm

re: #663 wozzablog

That being said - what is done is done.

665 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:50:08pm

Why is this never mentioned?

Saddam's death toll:

Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979-2003): 300 000
Human Rights Watch: "twenty-five years of Ba`th Party rule ... murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis"
8/9 Dec. 2003 AP: Total murders
New survey estimates 61,000 residents of Baghdad executed by Saddam.
US Government estimates a total of 300,000 murders
180,000 Kurds k. in Anfal
60,000 Shiites in 1991
50,000 misc. others executed
"Human rights officials" est.: 500,000
Iraqi politicians: over a million

666 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:51:11pm

re: #665 Sharmuta

Why is this never mentioned?

Saddam's death toll:

Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979-2003): 300 000
Human Rights Watch: "twenty-five years of Ba`th Party rule ... murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis"
8/9 Dec. 2003 AP: Total murders
New survey estimates 61,000 residents of Baghdad executed by Saddam.
US Government estimates a total of 300,000 murders
180,000 Kurds k. in Anfal
60,000 Shiites in 1991
50,000 misc. others executed
"Human rights officials" est.: 500,000
Iraqi politicians: over a million

Does not include the Iran-Iraq War

667 Fred72  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:52:43pm

re: #84 recusancy

He was delivering a birthday cake to John McCain when the storm hit. Then he went and played guitar at a fundraiser. It wasn't a surprise attack. We knew it was coming.

It went down a bit like this:

Aug 26: LA Governor declares state of emergency.
Aug 27: Federal emergency declared; FEMA authorized to act.
Aug 28: Mayor issues evacuation order; Bush and Brown warned of levee failure
Aug 29: Bush notified of levee breach and warned about the potential devastation by Brown and Mayfield. Bush then has a meeting about immigration, has the abovementioned birthday cake, then travels to Arizona to talk about his Medicare drug bill, then does the same in California, then attends a Padres game, listens to a dire request for help from Louisiana's governor, then sleeps on it.
Aug 30: Bush gives a speech at the Coronado naval base, plays the abovementioned guitar, then goes to Crawford for vacation.
Aug 31: Bush organized a task force to coordinate the federal response. By this point, people were already dying at the Superdome.

So, the time between when we know Bush was notified, and when he took action, was actually THREE days.

Was it Bush's job to personally airlift the victims? No. But I believe history will show that sometimes you just need a leader to step in and get things going, and Bush did not accomplish that quickly enough. Perhaps he relied too much on his subordinates (Brown was a poor choice to run FEMA) or otherwise believed that somebody else was taking charge -- and perhaps somebody else should have. We can't know what Bush was thinking when he chose to go to the Padres game instead of calling a meeting with top staff to ensure that the federal response was going smoothly... but I think history shows that it was a mistake not to.

668 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:57:20pm

re: #666 Sharmuta

The Iran-Iraq war which Britain and the US played both sides of, was disgusting and genocidal episode power politics that we suddenly develop a concience over some 20 years later when it suits us to start hating Sadam again.

We were in the middle of that playing both sides - the blood of those dead is as much on our hands as it the post invasion blood 2003 onwards.

We didn't have to be doing the killing to be every bit as responsible.

669 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:59:24pm

re: #668 wozzablog

I'm not trying to bring that conflict into the discussion at all, I just wanted to point out those numbers were not involved in the other numbers I cited as the number of deaths under saddam's regime.

670 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 6:00:02pm

re: #665 Sharmuta

It's mentioned a lot. It's just not the reason we went to war - well, it wasn't the reason Britain went to war with him.

He was a bad man eading a genocidal regieme - a genocidal regieme that Iran could have walked over in three days flat same as we did. Except Iran didn't have to walk over there and have it's troops killed - we did it for them. The Iranian sphere of direct influence is now much much larger than it was in 2002.

671 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 6:00:55pm

re: #669 Sharmuta

I wouldn't have assumed they were - they would have been far too low.

but - point taken - someone else would probably have jumped in and mentioned it if you hadn't gotten ahead of it.

672 Mark Pennington  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 6:03:10pm

LGF: a place where people who like and dislike Dick Cheney can coexist.
HotAir: a place where only one ideology(Bad Craziness) is allowed.

673 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 6:07:32pm

Iraqi “Nationalization” Program

674 Racer X  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 6:08:51pm

re: #668 wozzablog

The Iran-Iraq war which Britain and the US played both sides of, was disgusting and genocidal episode power politics that we suddenly develop a concience over some 20 years later when it suits us to start hating Sadam again.

We were in the middle of that playing both sides - the blood of those dead is as much on our hands as it the post invasion blood 2003 onwards.

We didn't have to be doing the killing to be every bit as responsible.

I just shed a little tear.

/wait, no I didn't.

675 BlackFedora  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 6:11:29pm

That's all profoundly, epically and utterly sick.

676 Blueheron  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 6:12:46pm

re: #295 albusteve

yep, lies and ensuing threat to US security...lies about the success of the Iraqi surge and waterboarding having no effect...on and on...Cheney is a stout guy and you can't deal with his honesty

I personally like Cheney. And you all can down ding me until the cows come home I don't care.
I think he has gotten fed up with the 'Bush did it and I have to deal with it 'line coming from the Obama Administration. He is defending the Bush administrations record. He is also concerned for the nation's safety.

677 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 6:12:47pm

re: #674 Racer X


i mean, after all, whats a little genocide between friends?

678 mich-again  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 6:47:57pm

re: #668 wozzablog

We were in the middle of that playing both sides - the blood of those dead is as much on our hands as it the post invasion blood 2003 onwards.

Really?

Countless waves of untrained Iranian boy-soldiers armed only with plastic keys purportedly guaranteeing entry to heaven blew themselves up by the tens of thousands clearing mine fields or died charging into artillery barrages worthy of Verdun or Stalingrad.

That was our fault?

679 bosforus  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 7:20:45pm

re: #533 robdouth

Saying it's way worse, isn't a provable thing, it's just opinion.

I was quoting Charles. Take it up with him.

680 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 7:57:42pm
681 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 8:05:08pm

re: #680 MMM-MMM-MMM

And another asshole pops up, and gets banned.

682 doubter4444  Wed, Dec 9, 2009 8:48:42pm

re: #676 Blueheron

I personally like Cheney. And you all can down ding me until the cows come home I don't care.
I think he has gotten fed up with the 'Bush did it and I have to deal with it 'line coming from the Obama Administration. He is defending the Bush administrations record. He is also concerned for the nation's safety.

Lord help us from the likes of you then.
The best thing I can say of Dick Cheney is that he is naive.
But I really feel that he is truly evil. He plays to the basest of our nature.
Even those who have known him for decades are at a loss to explain his philosophy and actions, and his behavior since the election is disgraceful and disgusting.
Playing mighty man in this world is ill-conceived, naive, and stupid.
He offers the Pablum of invincibility, and he-man strength, when he is really just a bully, and god above I hate bullies.
May he rot in a special hell.

683 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 8:44:59am

America for Iraq
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

America in Iran
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


When we arm both sides in a conflict, and encourage the Hussein regieme to go all out... how can the West not take it's share of the blame?

684 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 8:45:29am

re: #678 mich-again

See 683.

685 amrafel  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:45:42pm

I really must apologize for my misleading comment above. I deserved the "Oh, give me a break!"
Hopefully my intent will be clearer here.
My condemnation of Hotair for maintaining the vile comments was weak. Let me be much stronger here: I condemn Hotair for it!
I was actually trying to caution Mr. Johnson that it is possible -- not even all that likely, but merely possible -- that some of the posts he highlights might be the work of agent provocateurs. It would be embarrassing to Johnson if he wound up doing that. It's just my paranoid way of looking out for CJ's best interests.

686 S.D.  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 2:37:05pm

Those comments are exactly what needs to be fought against with reason and words.

The problem with the people making those comments are that they only see extremes, over react and likely type things they'd never say in public.

Sites like Hot Air (and others) only encourage their user base to continue such nonsense.

687 robdouth  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 3:28:18pm

re: #650 Spare O'Lake

Ok, but you don't even know me and you've probably never been to Gulfport, MS. What part is so hard to believe? I was being facetious and over-exaggerative about the diversity training and racism stuff in the northeast, but it is where I learned about racism, because the first 7 years of my life in Gulfport, MS (near a naval base if that explains a lot in terms of racial harmony) I didn't know being a different race was a big deal. Look at the aftermath of Katrina. You didn't hear about anything crazy coming out of Gulfport which was hit as hard. One, it's not under sea level so even with the destruction, it's not as bad, but also, being a tight-knit military town. People just help each other out more. I remember going through hurricane Juan as a kid, and we had the eye of the hurricane pass over our house. One guy thought it was over, and didn't realize it was the eye of the storm, so he gets a ladder out goes up on his house and starts chainsawing off the parts of his tree that fell on the house. Well the wind picks up, knocks his ladder off, and I remember no less than 3 different neighbors came running, even when the wind was picking up to dangerous levels to help hold his ladder and get him to safety.

That's what happens when you have a better community. This is not a racially motivated point either because as far as I remember Gulfport was a pretty solidly biracial community, and their just wasn't the racial tension there was that i experienced outside Cleveland, OH.

I still don't get any of the BS you are talking about, but everything I said was the truth, and I didn't see any evidence of racial cliques, or animosity between the races until I moved to Ohio in upper grade school and into Junior High.

Does this mean the North is worse than the South, of course not, because it's two isolated incidents. But thanks for thinking I'm lying even though there's no grand point to be made. I think the original point was about the "Boy" comments and how if it was a older southerner, they called everyone that. When I moved out of the south, it became obvious you don't use that word in a mixed race situation. Sorry for any confusion.


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