Are those birds by the foam?

Who combs the sand that it lay so straight?
The birds! The birds! That's who!

Who guards the sand from the crashing waves?
The birds! The birds! That's who!

Who is coming in only 15 days?

Overnight thread means time for bed.

But read this first.

Or you could read this. (yes - it could become a boob thread)

re: #4 karmic_inquisitor

Or you could read this. (yes - it could become a boob thread)

Now, who would do a thing like that?

And now for something completely different

re: #4 karmic_inquisitor

The island states (AOSIS) also think 2 degrees is too much, and that is what their maneuvering yesterday, which brought the COP (conference of the parties) to an abrupt close.

Unlike the G77, they are not necessarily in the pocket of the Chinese and so found themselves arguing against the G77+China group last night.

Read more detail here:

Danes block Tuvalu in bid for tough climate action

re: #7 freetoken

The last speaker was Lumumba Stanislaus Di-Aping

From the CIA Factbook:

Introduction ::Sudan

Background:

Military regimes favoring Islamic-oriented governments have dominated national politics since independence from the UK in 1956. Sudan was embroiled in two prolonged civil wars during most of the remainder of the 20th century. These conflicts were rooted in northern economic, political, and social domination of largely non-Muslim, non-Arab southern Sudanese. The first civil war ended in 1972 but broke out again in 1983. The second war and famine-related effects resulted in more than four million people displaced and, according to rebel estimates, more than two million deaths over a period of two decades. Peace talks gained momentum in 2002-04 with the signing of several accords. The final North/South Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA), signed in January 2005, granted the southern rebels autonomy for six years. After which, a referendum for independence is scheduled to be held. A separate conflict, which broke out in the western region of Darfur in 2003, has displaced nearly two million people and caused an estimated 200,000 to 400,000 deaths. The UN took command of the Darfur peacekeeping operation from the African Union on 31 December 2007. As of early 2009, peacekeeping troops were struggling to stabilize the situation, which has become increasingly regional in scope, and has brought instability to eastern Chad, and Sudanese incursions into the Central African Republic. Sudan also has faced large refugee influxes from neighboring countries, primarily Ethiopia and Chad. Armed conflict, poor transport infrastructure, and lack of government support have chronically obstructed the provision of humanitarian assistance to affected populations.

Just got home. Flipped on A&E. Why is there a fat Steven Segal on some show? Does anyone know of this travesty?

No go. After listening to the G77 block and Stanislaus Di-Aping I'm pulling my support for COP15.

Travel Warning
United States Department of State
Bureau of Consular Affairs
Washington, DC 20520

This information is current as of today, Thu Dec 10 2009 00:38:40 GMT-0700 (Mountain Standard Time).
SUDAN

April 08, 2009

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens of the risks of travel to Sudan and recommends that American citizens defer all travel to Sudan due to uncertain security conditions and the possibility of violence and harassment targeting westerners. On April 9, the Department of State authorized non-emergency Embassy personnel and family members who had departed Sudan in March 2009 to return to the country. This Travel Warning for Sudan replaces the Travel Warning issued on March 9, 2009, to note the lifting of the Embassy’s authorized departure status.

In March 2009, the government of Sudan expelled numerous aid groups from the country and senior government officials publicly called humanitarian aid workers "spies." Officials from the Sudan Humanitarian Affairs Commission seized the finances and assets of many of these organizations, as well as personal property of aid workers, including passports and laptop computers.

Recent protests have featured sharp anti-western rhetoric. There is a continuing possibility that ongoing protests may encourage violent action against Europeans and Americans.

SNIP

re: #10 Gus 802

Remember, there are many different "sides" in this mess... It is not clear to me what, if anything, constructive can happen until the effects of AGW become more prominent in daily life.

That could be 20 or 30 years.

It's among the toughest of political issues to tackle precisely because the time between the act (emitting CO2) and visible changes.

Sudan rejects war crimes warrant for leader

CNN) -- Sudan will never comply with a warrant from the International Criminal Court (ICC) to hand over President Omar al-Bashir to face charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity, Sudan's ambassador to the United Nations told CNN's Christiane Amanpour on Tuesday.

"That would never happen," Abdalmahmood Abdalhaleem Mohamad told Amanpour in a program to be aired Wednesday. "And the United States itself is not a member of the ICC. Let the government of the U.S. join the ICC."

SNIP

re: #12 freetoken

Remember, there are many different "sides" in this mess... It is not clear to me what, if anything, constructive can happen until the effects of AGW become more prominent in daily life.

That could be 20 or 30 years.

It's among the toughest of political issues to tackle precisely because the time between the act (emitting CO2) and visible changes.

I know. That speech bummed me out to be honest. OK, it kind of pissed me off.

re: #13 Gus 802

Yes, and I have suspected that the choice of having Sudan being one of the front spokesmen of the group of the G77+China was a cynical move on the part of some (China?) who want to poke their eye in the West.

re: #15 freetoken

Yes, and I have suspected that the choice of having Sudan being one of the front spokesmen of the group of the G77+China was a cynical move on the part of some (China?) who want to poke their eye in the West.

Big time. And look at this.

Talk about survivability rates.

re: #15 freetoken

China's got a lot of oil interests in Sudan, don't they? Looks like it's still about the oil...

re: #17 laZardo

Yes... and yes.

re: #17 laZardo

China's got a lot of oil interests in Sudan, don't they? Looks like it's still about the oil...

China Invests Heavily In Sudan's Oil Industry
Beijing Supplies Arms Used on Villagers

By Peter S. Goodman
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, December 23, 2004; Page A01

LEAL, Sudan -- On this parched and dusty African plain, China's largest energy company is pumping crude oil, sending it 1,000 miles upcountry through a Chinese-made pipeline to the Red Sea, where tankers wait to ferry it to China's industrial cities. Chinese laborers based in a camp of prefabricated sheds work the wells and lay highways across the flats to make way for heavy machinery.

SNIP

re: #19 Gus 802

Another excerpt from the article:

In the case of Sudan, Africa's largest country, China is in a lucrative partnership that delivers billions of dollars in investment, oil revenue and weapons -- as well as diplomatic protection -- to a government accused by the United States of genocide in Darfur and cited by human rights groups for systematically massacring civilians and chasing them off ancestral lands to clear oil-producing areas. The country once gave safe haven to Osama bin Laden and is listed by Washington as a state supporter of terrorism. U.S. companies are prohibited from investing there.

I think I'm suffering from PTUNS, post traumatic UN (giberish) syndrome.

The spokesman for the G77/China delegation was Lumumba Stanislaus Di-Aping from the Sudan. This is a country that imports and exports with China with not only arms sale but oil.

They've also been accused of genocide in Darfur and are on record for providing safe harbor for Osama bin Laden.

Gosh...if you can't trust a genocidal, totalitarian third-world African hellhole who can you trust these days?

re: #22 Fenway_Nation

Not the first-world developing countries sponsoring them, that's for sure.

/

re: #22 Fenway_Nation

Gosh...if you can't trust a genocidal, totalitarian third-world African hellhole who can you trust these days?

I don't know but the press corps was on bended knee.

[Link: sudan.usembassy.gov...]

U.S. relations with Sudan were further strained in the 1990s. Sudan backed Iraq in its invasion of Kuwait and provided sanctuary and assistance to Islamic terrorist groups. In the early and mid-1990s, Carlos the Jackal, Osama bin Laden, Abu Nidal, and other terrorist leaders resided in Khartoum. Sudan's role in the radical Pan-Arab Islamic Conference represented a matter of great concern to the security of American officials and dependents in Khartoum, resulting in several drawdowns and/or evacuations of U.S. personnel from Khartoum in the early-mid 1990s. Sudan's Islamist links with international terrorist organizations represented a special matter of concern for the U.S. Government, leading to Sudan's 1993 designation as a state sponsor of terrorism and a suspension of U.S. Embassy operations in Khartoum in 1996. In October 1997, the U.S. imposed comprehensive economic, trade, and financial sanctions against the Sudan. In August 1998, in the wake of the East Africa embassy bombings, the U.S. launched cruise missile strikes against Khartoum. The last U.S. Ambassador to the Sudan, Ambassador Tim Carney, departed post prior to this event and no new ambassador has been designated since. The U.S. Embassy is headed by a charge d'affaires.

re: #25 Gus 802

Forgot this:

Sudan broke diplomatic relations with the U.S. in June 1967, following the outbreak of the Arab-Israeli War. Relations improved after July 1971, when the Sudanese Communist Party attempted to overthrow President Nimeiri, and Nimeiri suspected Soviet involvement. U.S. assistance for resettlement of refugees following the 1972 peace settlement with the south added further improved relations.

re: #25 Gus 802

re: #26 Gus 802

So it's like a 'Palestine' without the martyr complex then?

re: #27 Fenway_Nation

re: #26 Gus 802

So it's like a 'Palestine' without the martyr complex then?

I think it's both.

An ill-chosen voice from Khartoum

The G77 group of developing nations has done itself few favours by choosing Sudan to carry its banner at the Copenhagen climate summit.

SNIP

What is difficult for developed countries to understand is the choice of Sudan as a standard-bearer in the first place. The G77 elected Sudan as its chair in September, 2008, when its genocidal campaign in Darfur was already well known. By March, 2009, Omar al-Bashir, the country's president, became the first sitting head of state to be indicted for war crimes and crimes against humanity by the International Criminal Court, all related to the Darfur attacks that killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. Mr. al-Bashir is a wanted man, and his attendance at Copenhagen is unlikely; Sudanese leadership cannot be credible.

SNIP

The island nations are starting their press conference:

[Link: www2.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

re: #29 Gus 802

Ah...so much fodder for my latest blog, such little time!

re: #31 Fenway_Nation

Ah...so much fodder for my latest blog, such little time!

It was almost too easy with Sudan. Iran and Syria are part of the G77.

re: #30 freetoken

The island nations are starting their press conference:

[Link: www2.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

"Predictable and high levels of funding."

They're also asking for money like the G77.

re: #32 Gus 802

Jesus Tourette's Syndrome Christ on a Cracker.

First it was the G7...then the G8 after the fall of the USSR. Then the G20 with the advent of the BRIC economic block.

Apparently now we're taking 77 of the most god (or allah) forsaken countries, lumping them together and putting a G in front of them like they have the same clout as the G20 (let alone the G8)..

Can't they find some more appropraite acronym like the M77 (for Mediocre) or C77 (for craptasitc)?

re: #34 Fenway_Nation

Jesus Tourette's Syndrome Christ on a Cracker.

First it was the G7...then the G8 after the fall of the USSR. Then the G20 with the advent of the BRIC economic block.

Apparently now we're taking 77 of the most god (or allah) forsaken countries, lumping them together and putting a G in front of them like they have the same clout as the G20 (let alone the G8)..

Can't they find some more appropraite acronym like the M77 (for Mediocre) or C77 (for craptasitc)?

I don't know. I'm listening to the live feed and I'm getting an earful. There's some serious doom and gloom rhetoric being tossed about. The Guardian also gets the lead question for the second time after the Susan led the G77/China representation. The head of the AOSIS delegation is Dessima Williams who is speaking now:

Dessima Williams is a Grenadian diplomat and former Ambassador to the United Nations from Grenada who was reappointed to the ambassadorship in 2008. She was a professor of sociology, development and gender at Brandeis University in Waltham, Massachusetts. Dr. Williams holds a Ph.D. from American University and a bachelor's degree from the University of Minnesota. She is also the founder and Director of the Grenada Education and Development Programme (GRENED).

AOSIS

"Historical responsibility...as well as in terms of financing."

"Areas of responsibility."

"Bad faith." (Referring to the West)

1.5 degrees or lower like G77/China.

re: #36 Gus 802

1.5 degrees or lower like G77/China.

I don't think that is correct... the G77/China is sticking to the original Kyoto Protocol and goals of 2C.

re: #37 freetoken

I don't think that is correct... the G77/China is sticking to the original Kyoto Protocol and goals of 2C.

OK, I misheard.

Here is that sticking point as I understand it: The AOSIS group's desire to not be flooded translates into a much stricter emissions plan than even originally envisioned by the designers of the Kyoto Protocol.

There is no way to reach the limitations necessary and allow China to continue to grow emissions as they have been. Even if the US would go to 0 emissions (not possible, but let's assume), the limits of the AOSIS can't be reached without the developing world being more aggressive than what China (and in theory Brazil and India) can allow if they are to have any traditional industrial growth at all.

Since everybody knows this, I assume the Chinese led block sees the AOSIS proposal as an out for the US and others to throw up their hands and say "impossible", and the whole arrangement (of having the industrialized world fund some of the developing world's mitigation and adaptation) would collapse.

re: #37 freetoken

I don't think that is correct... the G77/China is sticking to the original Kyoto Protocol and goals of 2C.

These details are new to me. I was just reading an article in the Yale Climate Forum and they talk about target temperatures and more:

“I think that arguments over temperature targets are a distraction,” Ken Caldeira, a climate scientist at Stanford University and the Carnegie Institution, wrote in an e-mail exchange with The Yale Forum.

“We should be talking about emissions targets, and the right emission target is zero,” Caldeira said. “We are going to solve the carbon-climate problem when we create an understanding that it is no longer acceptable to use the atmosphere as a waste dump … This should not be a discussion about targets, it should be a discussion about which kinds of objects people should be allowed to build.”

Some are calling for a 1 degree target.

[Link: www.yaleclimatemediaforum.org...]

re: #40 Gus 802

The scientific discussion, if I understand it correctly, is what are the real impacts on sea level for any given temperature rise.

During the previous two interglacial periods, roughly 100,000 and 200,000 years ago, sea levels were many feet higher even though the temperature was just a bit warmer than today.

This leads us to the recent paper (to which I linked) which looked at climate changes beyond 2100 and found that there is indeed much more change to come even with a greatly limited emissions regime.

If this is the case, then the AOSIS nations are sunk. Yes, up till 2100 sea level rise might only be say a foot and half - devastating for some islands but not others. However, sea level rises would continue as the glaciers in Greenland and WAIS will respond for many years even after greenhouse gas rises stop.

The hysterics of AOSIS may seem unwarranted today, but over the next couple of centuries they very well could be proven true.

But here again we are the point where we are talking about changes over the next 6 generations of humans, and it is hard to get people agree about what to do for next year's summer vacation, and in light of this trying to manage human behavior for the sakes of their grand-grand-grand-grand children is not a politically winnable strategy.

re: #41 freetoken

I don't know how to translate 1.5 degrees or 2.0. What do they mean by that?

re: #42 Gus 802

Temperature rise in Centigrade, above pre-industrial levels.

We are currently at roughly +.8C .

re: #43 freetoken

Temperature rise in Centigrade, above pre-industrial levels.

We are currently at roughly +.8C .

So I assume then we factor in emissions and time.

They sure do like their SUVs in Grenada.

re: #44 Gus 802

"time" being the operative word here.

Unfortunately, or maybe there is no other way, the delegates have no other metric to use other than the time frames defined by the IPCC in their reports. The next IPCC report may have better timeframes and estimates.

Here again though the issue remains - it's still about effects that most of won't see because we will be dead.

re: #46 freetoken

"time" being the operative word here.

Unfortunately, or maybe there is no other way, the delegates have no other metric to use other than the time frames defined by the IPCC in their reports. The next IPCC report may have better timeframes and estimates.

Here again though the issue remains - it's still about effects that most of won't see because we will be dead.

I'm finding it difficult to grasp actually. It seems as though we're being asked to go from some Highway to Hell to Zero in a couple of years. Or as Gordon Brown said something about a few weeks. How can we realistically go from our Ford F350s to nothing while paying the G77/China and AOSIS countries a dividend while down sizing to prevent a leveling off of sea and land global temperature at our around 1.5 to 2.0 degrees C? And at the same time China is pulling our proverbial chain.

re: #47 Gus 802

As near as I can understand, there are several agendas in play here, not all evident as really being to address AGW.

However, on climate change proper, the problem is that of "sunk cost" when any region or country makes a commitment. E.g., if you build a coal plant, you will likely use it and use it for many decades.

So the urgency for action now is to try and get all the parties to start to change their direction, because if it isn't done now in what is considered the best political atmosphere to date (e.g., the US is no longer stone-walling, the EU has learned from their carbon market experience, Russia is relatively benign in their posturing, etc.).

If under these circumstances a reasonable agreement can't be made, then when will one be made?

And if the worlds waits N number of years more to come to agreement, then during those N years even more sunk costs will be made into carbon based energy systems.

re: #48 freetoken

Do you think our proposal works?

re: #49 Gus 802

I've already mentioned to Ludwig (to his chagrin) that I think we need to be in triage mode now.

I have no faith in humans to act in the best interest of the species as a whole, or the other species on this planet.

E.g., we will not give up our cars in the country, and once it becomes clear that oil production can't keep pace with demand, we will turn to non-oil sources to create liquids, which will spiral us into even greater emissions.

The rest of the world will do the similarly. Only a few European countries met their Kyoto obligations to date, and the developing world wants to burn coal and trees as fast as possible.

IMO, we should make this offer to AOSIS: 40 acres and a mule. IOW, an open door immigration policy (which VDARE will hate, but heh...).

The larger developing countries will have to take care of themselves.

BTW, I'm watching the plenary of the CMP now:

[Link: www2.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

re: #51 freetoken

BTW, I'm watching the plenary of the CMP now:

[Link: www2.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

Thanks for the info FT. My cynical brain needs to get some sleep after listening to these people.

Good morning all, hope those of you in the midwest and northeast are dug out and didn't suffer too much from the snow storm.

Nothing to Say

or perhaps,

Looks like we are sending the right people over to Carbonhagen, it is becoming a fingerpointing blame game, and we have elected the game master. Wouldn't surprise me if after 12 days of limo's and parties the only agreement they come to is it is all Bush and Cheney's fault.

Obama accepting the Nobel Peace Prize now.

Jonathan Mann on CNN and it looks like someone is advertising the Opera browser behind him.

re: #55 soxfan4life

I thought that was agreed upon from the very beginnig.

Did you see the part where the developing countries elected to be represented by that bastion of progress and tolerance known as the Sudan?

re: #57 Fenway_Nation

I thought that was agreed upon from the very beginnig.

Did you see the part where the developing countries elected to be represented by that bastion of progress and tolerance known as the Sudan?

Where is the save Darfur crowd on this?

re: #58 soxfan4life

Saving Tibet?

Saving $1.50 off their next order at the International House of Pancakes?

re: #58 soxfan4life

Where is the save Darfur crowd on this?

A couple weeks before the conference they demanded the Danish arrest Bashir. Dunno what happened since then.

heh ,, and my wife asks me why I just read the sports section of the Sunday paper and toss the rest!

(((and even that isn't what it used to be !!)))

re: #61 sattv4u2

I was disappointed when the Boston Heralds sports section became nothing but a car dealership ad section

re: #60 laZardo

Bashir's a no-show. He sent a representative in his place.

re: #56 laZardo

Obama accepting the Nobel Peace Prize now.

Jonathan Mann on CNN and it looks like someone is advertising the Opera browser behind him.

Is this the very first worldwide anti-Bush prize?

re: #64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't know, I switched off when they started playing the Norwegian rendition of the Sound of Music. q:

re: #61 sattv4u2

I stopped getting the paper at all two years ago. Realized all that I did was do the Sunday Crossword puzzle.

re: #66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I stopped getting the paper at all two years ago. Realized all that I did was do the Sunday Crossword puzzle.

Wifey still wants the Sunday one delivered for the "ads". I have no idea why, as the 3-4 stores she always shops at send her the exact same ad in the mail the Friday before. By Wednesday, the paper is still sitting in the family room with the rubber band still around it and I have to seperate the shiney ads from the regular paper so I can recycle the regular paper and thrwo away the shiney ads for trash/ recycle day

re: #64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is this the very first worldwide anti-Bush prize?

Gores!

I hope that medal for the prize isn't gold or anything
//

I got home from work around 2 this morning. Got to bed about 3:30 and have to be to work in an hour. I don't know whose great fucking idea this was, but there will be hell to pay.

re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar

At least you're not bitter.

re: #67 sattv4u2

I just take my in-laws sunday puzzle now. Fold down to the puzzle and don't read another word. (Well, I do like "Ask Marilyn" in the Parade)

re: #71 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

At least you're not bitter.

Irish coffe helps.
/

re: #73 Cannadian Club Akbar

Irish coffe helps.
/

Paging Rose...

re: #74 laZardo

That's Irish Saucy

re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's Irish Saucy

In bed?

re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar

I got home from work around 2 this morning. Got to bed about 3:30 and have to be to work in an hour. I don't know whose great fucking idea this was, but there will be hell to pay.

You work HERE !?!?!

I was at work from midnight till noon yesterday, drove home (an hour) napped, showered, drove back here (an hour) starting at 9 last night and here till noon today
TOTAL TIME AT WORK,,, 27 hours
TOTAL TIME AT HOME,,,7 hours
TOTAL TIME DRIVING,,,4 hours

JOB SAVED,,, Priceless! ((and I'm in a district that doesn't exist!!!)
//

*snicker*

re: #77 sattv4u2

I am lucky I don't have to go back to Tampa this AM.

re: #78 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

*snicker*

Don't these people understand Obama has to go save the world?
/

re: #80 Cannadian Club Akbar

Actually, in all honesty? I'm glad he's doing it this way.

Accept your award and git your ass back over here and get on with the business of running the country.

I don't know why, but I was expecting a two week victory lap around Europe. Glad we ain't getting one.

re: #81 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Actually, in all honesty? I'm glad he's doing it this way.

Accept your award and git your ass back over here and get on with the business of running the country.

I don't know why, but I was expecting a two week victory lap around Europe. Glad we ain't getting one.

Nobody laps around Europe in the winter!

Springtime in Paris is so much nicer!

re: #81 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I dunno...the less time here, the less healthcare cap & trade card check-ey stuff he can sign off on.

re: #83 Fenway_Nation

I dunno...the less time here, the less healthcare cap & trade card check-ey stuff he can sign off on.

And his poll numbers go up when he is gone.

re: #83 Fenway_Nation

I dunno...the less time here, the less healthcare cap & trade card check-ey stuff he can sign off on.

I hear he carries a pen with him!

re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar

Oh, he comes home eventually.

He ain't gonna get to sign a whole bunch of stuff anyway.

I want you to read this, and let the highlighted words sink in for a minute

Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) will press Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner this week on supporting a major overhaul of the tax system in 2010

{sigh}

Can we CHANGE back now!?!?!

re: #87 sattv4u2

I want you to read this, and let the highlighted words sink in for a minute

Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) will press Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner this week on supporting a major overhaul of the tax system in 2010

{sigh}

Can we CHANGE back now!?!?!

forgot the linky

[Link: thehill.com...]

re: #85 sattv4u2

I hear he carries a pen with him!

He uses a Blackberry. You really need to get up on the latest technology.
///²

re: #85 sattv4u2

I hear he carries a pen with him!

Quick! Hide it!

A North Korean moment...dissent in the ranks. They basically forced everyone onto a new currency and confiscated any savings by limiting how much can be converted.

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

re: #87 sattv4u2

Charlie Rangel in charge of tax laws is the equivalent of giving me the keys to the liquor cabinet.
/

re: #91 gregb

A North Korean moment...dissent in the ranks. They basically forced everyone onto a new currency and confiscated any savings by limiting how much can be converted.

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

What does a chicken and 2 pounds of rice convert to?

re: #93 Cannadian Club Akbar

What does a chicken and 2 pounds of rice convert to?

Passage to China?

re: #92 Cannadian Club Akbar

Charlie Rangel in charge of tax laws is the equivalent of giving me the keys to the liquor cabinet.
/

Combination to the pie safe.

I've been working on this most of last night...I'm not sure what it will accomplish...I'm not even sure how many people will see it.

But I'd like to think of it as being somewhat cathartic.

Weather Underground, 9/11, A Rhodes Scholarship, Cop Killers, A Tenured Terrorist & Death in a Northern Town- The '81 Brinks Heist Revisited and Why I Loathe and Distrust the Mainstream Media to This Day

re: #96 Fenway_Nation

Well...I see that went swimmingly. Can't seem to get the link thingamabobber to work for the post...so click my oh-so-blue name.

re: #93 Cannadian Club Akbar

A Nuclear chicken?

[Link: visualrian.com...]

re: #97 Fenway_Nation

Well...I see that went swimmingly. Can't seem to get the link thingamabobber to work for the post...so click my oh-so-blue name.

Change the conclusions on the "mainstream media" to be glowing instead and you might get a hollywood movie out of it.

re: #98 gregb

A Nuclear chicken?

[Link: visualrian.com...]

How does one produce more chickens?

re: #100 Cannadian Club Akbar

How does one produce more chickens?

Two headed ones, maybe. ;-)

re: #101 gregb

Two headed ones, maybe. ;-)

We should send pics of the San Diego Chicken over there with the caption, "It's better over here."

re: #91 gregb

A North Korean moment...dissent in the ranks. They basically forced everyone onto a new currency and confiscated any savings by limiting how much can be converted.

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

They should have bought Gold from Beck!!!
///

Morning Lizards!!

re: #91 gregb

Those poor, poor people.

re: #104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Those poor, poor people.

Now 3x as poor.

I pray something changes for them for the better.

re: #104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Those poor, poor people.

What is sad is, it is all they know.

re: #104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Those poor, poor people.

Proof that there is a hell!

HOw exactly does one 'save' in N. Korea? A little pile of bark and grass to chew on is replaced with shoeleather?

The plight of N. Korea is a real sore spot with me. The free nations of the world should be ashamed of how they've allowed this to continue and fester for half a century. It's disgusting.

Oh, and Morning All!

The coffee seems to have worked. Gotta shower and get gone. Thanks for the early conversation, Lizards. See ya in the afternoon!!

re: #109 RogueOne

Morning, wayward one of the singular persuasion...

re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar

The coffee seems to have worked. Gotta shower and get gone. Thanks for the early conversation, Lizards. See ya in the afternoon!!

Stay scaly CCA!

re: #109 RogueOne

The plight of N. Korea is a real sore spot with me. The free nations of the world should be ashamed of how they've allowed this to continue and fester for half a century. It's disgusting.

Oh, and Morning All!

I would say China bears a great responsibility as well. They have enabled NK to continue for far longer than they could on their own.

re: #97 Fenway_Nation

"There is nothing wrong with your television. Do not attempt to adjust the picture."

Hmm...still up there.

Everyone...if you want to read some of my semi-coherent musings cobbled together on pretty short notice (that also feature a helping of tragic real-world concidecnes) then click my oh-so-blue nick.

re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar

Make sure you workplace is accident free, CCA!

Morning!
No laptop and no internet access since Sunday night makes Varek something something...:)

re: #116 Fenway_Nation

and typo free, CCA!

*sigh*

re: #115 Fenway_Nation

Hmm...still up there.

Everyone...if you want to read some of my semi-coherent musings cobbled together on pretty short notice (that also feature a helping of tragic real-world concidecnes) then click my oh-so-blue nick.

Fenway,

I have to do some research, but I think one of my friends is the son of Sgt O'Grady. Talk about a small world...

re: #113 rwdflynavy

I would say China bears a great responsibility as well. They have enabled NK to continue for far longer than they could on their own.

Absolutely, but they've only been able to stretch this out because the rest of the world has allowed it. We (and by "we" I mean the rest of the free world) have put zero pressure on China to do the right thing instead of what they feel is in their best interests. We like peace/harmony and cheap labor more than we care about millions of starving N. Koreans.

re: #119 rwdflynavy

Really? I think I linked to his bio on the memorial website. Dunno if that's much help rwdflynavy.

re: #115 Fenway_Nation

Hmm...still up there.

Everyone...if you want to read some of my semi-coherent musings cobbled together on pretty short notice (that also feature a helping of tragic real-world concidecnes) then click my oh-so-blue nick.

Just read it. Very nice piece.

re: #122 RogueOne

TY...it's been kinda building ever since Ayers was in the spotlight again.

Morning lizards. I managed to survive the blustery winter storm of the last two days, and its attendant 0 degrees F (-18 degrees C) freezing cold. It's been a fun ride, to be sure. What'd I miss?

re: #124 thedopefishlives

Morning lizards. I managed to survive the blustery winter storm of the last two days, and its attendant 0 degrees F (-18 degrees C) freezing cold. It's been a fun ride, to be sure. What'd I miss?

spring and summer!

re: #125 sattv4u2

spring and summer!

We don't have those up here. We have two seasons, winter and construction.

re: #126 thedopefishlives

We don't have those up here. We have two seasons, winter and construction.

I know. I was born, rasied and lived in and around Boston for most of the 1st 45 years of my life

re: #121 Fenway_Nation

Really? I think I linked to his bio on the memorial website. Dunno if that's much help rwdflynavy.

That's what got me thinking. I know my buddy's dad was killed in the line of duty and the profile picture on the bio looks very familiar.

re: #119 rwdflynavy

I'm guessing you know a butt-load of really interesting folks!

Laughing, Obama only likes non-European royalty.

"Of all the things he is cancelling, I think the worst is cancelling the lunch with the king," said Siv Jensen, the leader of the largest party in opposition, the populist Progress party. "This is a central part of our government system. He should respect the monarchy," she told VG.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

re: #129 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm guessing you know a butt-load of really interesting folks!

Met a new one the day before Thanksgiving!!

U.S. Finally Gets Around To Prosecuting Mastermind Behind 9/11

re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar

The coffee seems to have worked. Gotta shower and get gone. Thanks for the early conversation, Lizards. See ya in the afternoon!!

You should temper it with a little Candian C.

re: #130 gregb

Laughing, Obama only likes non-European royalty.

"Of all the things he is cancelling, I think the worst is cancelling the lunch with the king," said Siv Jensen, the leader of the largest party in opposition, the populist Progress party. "This is a central part of our government system. He should respect the monarchy," she told VG.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Gee. Maybe BHO will give him an iPod to make up for it.

re: #128 rwdflynavy

By all means, follow up on that and let me know how it turns out. If it is Sgt. O'Grady's son, I'd love to have him take a look at it.

OK...gotta get going. Later, party reptiles.

re: #130 gregb

Laughing, Obama only likes non-European royalty.

"Of all the things he is cancelling, I think the worst is cancelling the lunch with the king," said Siv Jensen, the leader of the largest party in opposition, the populist Progress party. "This is a central part of our government system. He should respect the monarchy," she told VG.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Obamas protocol office can't decide if you're supposed to great the King with handshake, a bow, a slap on the back, a kiss of the cheek or ring, so they just said screw it!

re: #134 MandyManners

Gee. Maybe BHO will give him an iPod to make up for it.

With maybe the US plug outlet?

[Link: goscandinavia.about.com...]

re: #134 MandyManners

Gee. Maybe BHO will give him an iPod to make up for it.

With The Greatest Hots from Sweden on it !!

//

re: #135 Fenway_Nation

By all means, follow up on that and let me know how it turns out. If it is Sgt. O'Grady's son, I'd love to have him take a look at it.

Just did a little more research and I am almost positive:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

His son is listed in the article.

re: #137 sattv4u2

Every one knows you should great the King with the fist bump. Duh. Morning Lizards.

re: #139 sattv4u2

With The Greatest Hots from Sweden on it !!

//

HITS even ,,, (although Swedish Hotties works for me ((and Tiger)))

re: #142 sattv4u2

Speeches. You know, his "peace speeches". For example...

"Sending 30,000 additional troops to Afganistan"

(which I fully support, just like the hear the sounds of 'splodin' moonbat heads)

re: #141 KenJen

Every one knows you should great the King with the fist bump. Duh. Morning Lizards.

If I were royalty, that would TOTALLY be how I rolled. That would be awesome.

re: #56 laZardo

Obama accepting the Nobel Peace Prize now.

Jonathan Mann on CNN and it looks like someone is advertising the Opera browser behind him.

Here's the full text of Obama's Nobel acceptance speech. I'm still reading it, so no opinion on it yet, but it's interesting so far, at least IMO.

re: #132 Mad Al-Jaffee

U.S. Finally Gets Around To Prosecuting Mastermind Behind 9/11

I have heard that if the U.S. seeks the death penalty for KSM-which I assume we will- that Germany will refuse to had over any evidence they have on him. He spent a lot of time over there prior to 911 plotting and planning.

re: #141 KenJen

"World War 3 almost started today with a misunderstanding bewteen the King of Norway and The President of the United States. President Obama went to great the king with a fist bump that is common in the USA. The king thought Mr Obama was assaulting him and threw a punch that grazed the Presidents chin. Security from both sides started a scuffle, and soon Norwegian fisherman were seen menacing US Naval vessles, throwing LUTEFISK at them"

re: #147 sattv4u2

"glass chin"

FTFY.

re: #144 thedopefishlives
It's good to be King.

It's good to be the King.

re: #147 sattv4u2

Wow, I just learned a new word, "saponification" after reading how to make Lutefisk. We had a couple of Norwegian exchange faculty at the university. They used to wax glowingly on vodka about burying fish in jars until they rotted. I guess they were serious.

Hi kids!

Obama's speech was very good. He began by acknowledging that there were others more worthy of the prize, those in the trenches working for peace, but that he also understands why he was awarded the prize . . . that he is the leader of the nation that has sacrificed much in the name of world peace

After the ceremony he did talk with the King, Queen, Crown Prince and Princess among others. I do believe the Royals are a bit disappointed as are the Norwegians, and that Obama's handlers have sort of blown it here . . . spending more time with the Nowegians would have been time well spent, but be that as it may . . . they love Obama intensely here.

re: #151 Sabnen

Good. You can keep him. Consider him our Christmas gift to you.

I'm an American.

re: #152 KenJen

Good. You can keep him. Consider him our Christmas gift to you.

I think they'd prefer a tie, or a snuggly!

re: #153 Sabnen

I'm an American.

Oh. Well since your over there slap a big red bow on him for us. Presentation is everything.

re: #146 KenJen

I have heard that if the U.S. seeks the death penalty for KSM-which I assume we will- that Germany will refuse to had over any evidence they have on him. He spent a lot of time over there prior to 911 plotting and planning.

Few countries' vacillations between bloodthirst and kid gloves are as ill-timed as Deutschland's have been over the centuries...

re: #154 sattv4u2
Jaah !fuur suure!

War hero wins battle over flagpole

PHOTOS Previous Next
Medal of Honor recipient Van T. Barfoot, 90, lowers the flag from a pole in his yard in the Sussex Square neighborhood near Richmond. (Eva Russo/richmond Times-dispatch Via Associated Press)

"I plan to continue to fly the American flag without interference," says retired Army Col. Van T. Barfoot. (Eva Russo/richmond Times-dispatch Via Associated Press)

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Who's Blogging» Links to this article

By Christian Davenport
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 10, 2009

The Great Flagpole Dispute of 2009 started last summer when Van T. Barfoot, a retired Army colonel who single-handedly took on three Nazi tanks in World War II, moved to the Sussex Square neighborhood near Richmond to be closer to his daughter. Barfoot believes in flying the colors of the nation he loves, so he erected a flagpole in his front yard.

SNIP
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Whoops

re: #151 Sabnen

I think a degree of snubbing was in order. Best of all would have been to simply refuse the prize on the grounds that it was, at best, premature and that nothing deserving of it had actually been done. Given how unlikely that would be, accepting and bailing and denying the Committee a splashy publicity spectacle sends at least a muted message that those in charge of this prize have watered down it's prestige and need to rethink their stance and manipulation of it if they want it to regain any of it's past lustre.

So, good on 0bama for treating this as the second-rate event it's made itself into.

re: #160 SixDegrees

I think you have exactly right as to why he is changing schedule.

re: #158 rwdflynavy
I don't care how old he is...That's a tough Soldier!!
Congrat's Sir!

re: #160 SixDegrees

The Nobel Peace Prize had lustre? Remember, this is the same prize that was awarded to Yasser Arafat.

re: #163 thedopefishlives

The Nobel Peace Prize had lustre? Remember, this is the same prize that was awarded to Yasser Arafat.

I'm aware of that. You have to go back quite a while before you find a period where it had prestige, but it did at one time.

Awards to Arafat and Carter are difficult stains to remove. And awarding it without merit sullies it even further.

re: #162 reloadingisnotahobby

I don't care how old he is...That's a tough Soldier!!
Congrat's Sir!

Actually, not so much. Listen, i'm as "patriotic" as they come, but he moved into a complex WITH HOA restrictions that he had to agree to in writing (signed Home Owners Association agreement) or else he would not have been able to buy there. (THE biggest reason I chose the sub division I live in rather than one with an HOA)

That stated, and as onerous as most HOA's are (that I've encountered) we are still a nation run by the rule of law.

I salute this mans service to my country for all those years and I respect him as an elder, but he knew going in what the lasw were

re: #158 rwdflynavy

heh...I wondered what was gonna happen to this old guy...he clearly violated the association rules and just said, to hell with you...I like him alot, a tough old patriot exactly like my dad was...I salute him

If you want to read Norwegians gushing over Obama's speech, here is a link to the lead paper in Bergen. As I haven't learned enough Norwegian yet, I frequently use Google Translator to help me read their writings.

[Link: www.bt.no...]

some rules suck and you just have to ignore them and face the consequences...

re: #165 sattv4u2
I know your right...
But HOA's should allow some way for members
to display a flag...It is proper protocol to hang the Flag
from eaves or in windows .

re: #165 sattv4u2

I do have a question. Is it known what the specific terms of the HOA were? Were flags not allowed at all, or just not allowed to put up a flagpole and fly the flag from it? There's a big difference between the two.

re: #158 rwdflynavy

I'm glad this turned out the way it did. But I have mixed feelings about the problem that arose. It wasn't that Barfoot had erected a flagpole; it's that he erected it without obtaining permission first. The result was a pissing match between the Neighborhood Association and...well, pretty much everyone else. But it would have been better if Barfoot had simply put in a request first. If permission hadn't been granted, then I'd wholeheartedly take his back. As it is, he isn't without blame here.

The NA could have also conducted themselves better, rather than digging in their heels over a violation that could have been better dealt with by granting retroactive approval.

re: #169 reloadingisnotahobby

I know your right...
But HOA's should allow some way for members
to display a flag...It is proper protocol to hang the Flag
from eaves or in windows .

just change the rule about poles...pretty simple

re: #168 albusteve

some rules suck and you just have to ignore them and face the consequences...

i'd fist-bump the old guy, too, but it's not like he wasn't free to pick a different neighborhood. Contrary to what Mr. Spades' kidz would have you believe, the commies from DC didn't 'assign' him to this block. so i like the story but i wouldn't take this lesson from it.

then again, i'm only halfway through my coffee. busy morning.

re: #169 reloadingisnotahobby

I know your right...
But HOA's should allow some way for members
to display a flag...It is proper protocol to hang the Flag
from eaves or in windows .

They SHOULD, but they DIDN"T, so again his options should have been obey the laws he signed up too, work to change that one restriction (lobbying others in the HOA) or move to somewhere that does NOT have that restriction. I know the last sounds draconian especially for a man of his age, but as I stated, he knew what the restrictions were prior to buying there

re: #169 reloadingisnotahobby

I know your right...
But HOA's should allow some way for members
to display a flag...It is proper protocol to hang the Flag
from eaves or in windows .

They don't have any specific rules against such things. The problem arose because Barfoot never obtained permission to erect the flagpole, and never even asked for it; he just went ahead and put it up.

The issue wasn't about flags, it was about not following the association rules. The same thing would have happened if he had installed a garden shed or other structure without approval, as an example.

re: #174 sattv4u2

and further, a little publicity about the fact that you chose another neighborhood because the HOA isn't 'patriotic' enough to allow flags would have been plenty embarrassing for the HOA, don't you think? sometimes the 'unpatriotic' slur can be used deftly and to good advantage...

re: #174 sattv4u2

They SHOULD, but they DIDN"T, so again his options should have been obey the laws he signed up too, work to change that one restriction (lobbying others in the HOA) or move to somewhere that does NOT have that restriction. I know the last sounds draconian especially for a man of his age, but as I stated, he knew what the restrictions were prior to buying there

he didn't violate a law...it was a HOA rule concerning poles...good for him...you don't move because of a pole, you fight the rule

re: #176 Aceofwhat?

and further, a little publicity about the fact that you chose another neighborhood because the HOA isn't 'patriotic' enough to allow flags would have been plenty embarrassing for the HOA, don't you think? sometimes the 'unpatriotic' slur can be used deftly and to good advantage...

did you read the article?

re: #177 albusteve

he didn't violate a law...it was a HOA rule concerning poles...good for him...you don't move because of a pole, you fight the rule

yes you do, as I stated. But you don't just break the rule because you don't like it (especially a rule that you signed to agree). Moving was last resort in my 174, yet still an option, and an even BETTER option would not to have moved there in the 1st place KNOWINg the no flagpole rule and KNOWING you would want one

Damn employers and their "expectations"!

Later.

re: #179 sattv4u2

yes you do, as I stated. But you don't just break the rule because you don't like it (especially a rule that you signed to agree). Moving was last resort in my 174, yet still an option, and an even BETTER option would not to have moved there in the 1st place KNOWINg the no flagpole rule and KNOWING you would want one

bah...it's a good fight

I can see both sides of the issue but I'm gonna back the guy who single-handedly took on three Nazi tanks for his country.

re: #181 albusteve

bah...it's a good fight

that it is, but sometimes you lose "good fights" and live with the consequences or move on, literally and theoretically

re: #166 albusteve

heh...I wondered what was gonna happen to this old guy...he clearly violated the association rules and just said, to hell with you...I like him alot, a tough old patriot exactly like my dad was...I salute him

I live in a neighborhood governed by a HOA and understand the importance of them, but I can't help but be happy when a guy like this wins.

re: #183 sattv4u2

that it is, but sometimes you lose "good fights" and live with the consequences or move on, literally and theoretically

fortune favors the bold

re: #185 albusteve

fortune favors the bold

payback is a bitch!
(who knows what animosity amongst his neighbors will result in this!)

If I were a neighbor, I would have cared less,,, EXCEPT that I would be concerned as to what can of worms it may have opened. Again, people there sign agreements knowing what the restrictions are. Some (many?) move into a commumity like that BECAUSE of the restrictions

[Link: www.google.com...]

recovery?...oh yeah, but what about this pesky factoid?

re: #186 sattv4u2

payback is a bitch!
(who knows what animosity amongst his neighbors will result in this!)

If I were a neighbor, I would have cared less,,, EXCEPT that I would be concerned as to what can of worms it may have opened. Again, people there sign agreements knowing what the restrictions are. Some (many?) move into a commumity like that BECAUSE of the restrictions

Restrictions like, "no 73 Chevy pickups on blocks in the front yard", not "no flying the American Flag".

I must be on the other side of this issue. WTF does his war record or how many Nazi he killed have to do with HOA rules? Why do people always change the issue to some straw man bullshit like this guy was being stopped from displaying his flag when that is obviously not the case?

He won, great. But those rules are in place for a reason. For all the hoopla I'm sure a new neighbor could move in next door and ignore the HOA rules in such a way that this guy would NOT Like it at all.

I seriously equate this to those old, pushy people who try to cut in line at the store or get out of a traffic ticket and accuse anyone who says anything of picking on an old person. This guy just ignored the rules, did what he wanted and then draped himself in the flag as a defense to win support. It's lame.

re: #186 sattv4u2

payback is a bitch!
(who knows what animosity amongst his neighbors will result in this!)

If I were a neighbor, I would have cared less,,, EXCEPT that I would be concerned as to what can of worms it may have opened. Again, people there sign agreements knowing what the restrictions are. Some (many?) move into a commumity like that BECAUSE of the restrictions

next the old radical should put up a POW flag under the Stars and Stripes

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I see that Obama received his award this morning and his speech was generally pretty good; even making a case for a just war and the need to defend oneself against barbarians. It's the speech he needs to keep repeating to his fellow Democrats who are pushing a cut and run in Afghanistan even as the President is trying to keep our allies engaged in Afghanistan and sending more troops to stabilize the situation and roll back the Taliban.

re: #188 rwdflynavy

Restrictions like, "no 73 Chevy pickups on blocks in the front yard", not "no flying the American FlagPOLE".

The issue isn't the flag, it's the flagPOLE

re: #190 albusteve

next the old radical should put up a POW flag under the Stars and Stripes

I wonder if someone is going to claim the right to build a minaret on their effin' balcony.

re: #189 Locker

I must be on the other side of this issue. WTF does his war record or how many Nazi he killed have to do with HOA rules? Why do people always change the issue to some straw man bullshit like this guy was being stopped from displaying his flag when that is obviously not the case?

He won, great. But those rules are in place for a reason. For all the hoopla I'm sure a new neighbor could move in next door and ignore the HOA rules in such a way that this guy would NOT Like it at all.

I seriously equate this to those old, pushy people who try to cut in line at the store or get out of a traffic ticket and accuse anyone who says anything of picking on an old person. This guy just ignored the rules, did what he wanted and then draped himself in the flag as a defense to win support. It's lame.

guy defies a bad rule, and wins out...it's the American way

re: #190 albusteve

next the old radical should put up a POW flag under the Stars and Stripes

And thats the point. What if another neighbor wanted to put up a conferderate flag, and the next a KKK flag, and the next ,,,

re: #193 Spare O'Lake

I wonder if someone is going to claim the right to build a minaret on their effin' balcony.

NO MINARETS!

re: #193 Spare O'Lake

BINGO ,, (gmta) ,,, #195

re: #184 rwdflynavy

I too live where a HOA operates - in fact it's one of the oldest in the nation and is specifically exempted from NJ HOA laws, so it operates quite differently than many others.

The benefits of the HOA mean that we can't build McMansions and the area is treated as a historical district because of its design and plan to minimize reliance on cars.

Yet, we are not allowed to post political signs or signs generally. I think it's wrong, and I would like to see that changed so as to allow political speech, but we do allow flags to fly...

re: #195 sattv4u2

And thats the point. What if another neighbor wanted to put up a conferderate flag, and the next a KKK flag, and the next ,,,

one step at a time comrade

re: #199 albusteve

What is this? North Korea? ///

re: #195 sattv4u2

And thats the point. What if another neighbor wanted to put up a conferderate flag, and the next a KKK flag, and the next ,,,

We might have diversity break out.

re: #191 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I see that Obama received his award this morning and his speech was generally pretty good; even making a case for a just war and the need to defend oneself against barbarians. It's the speech he needs to keep repeating to his fellow Democrats who are pushing a cut and run in Afghanistan even as the President is trying to keep our allies engaged in Afghanistan and sending more troops to stabilize the situation and roll back the Taliban.

He can keep giving it but I really don't think it will change much. On the left there is a very strong feeling that we are in Afghanistan without any good reason. With regard to war the left doesn't normally jump on the band wagon very easy just for patriotic or hawkish reasons. They normally want some concrete reasons to be putting our troops in harms way and spending our money.

What I'm saying is, with regard to the left, it's details that have a chance to sway things. Personally I'm not excited about sending more troops or even staying more than another year but... that opinion is open to adjustment if I felt like there was some real benefit to additional efforts.

re: #200 lawhawk

What is this? North Korea? ///

obviously, the guy lives in a ...
CONCENTRATION CAMP!...FREE THE FLAG!

re: #165 sattv4u2

Actually, not so much. Listen, i'm as "patriotic" as they come, but he moved into a complex WITH HOA restrictions that he had to agree to in writing (signed Home Owners Association agreement) or else he would not have been able to buy there. (THE biggest reason I chose the sub division I live in rather than one with an HOA)

That stated, and as onerous as most HOA's are (that I've encountered) we are still a nation run by the rule of law.

I salute this mans service to my country for all those years and I respect him as an elder, but he knew going in what the lasw were

Booo! We may be a nation run by the rule of law but that doesn't excuse the total lack of common sense displayed by the HOA. There are exceptions to every rule and since the only complaints came from the HOA and not his neighbors they should have pulled their heads outta their asses and let this old MOH winner fly the flag.

[Link: www2.timesdispatch.com...]

There is no provision in the community's rules expressly forbidding flagpoles, Barfoot's daughter said. But she said the board ruled against her father's fixture and ordered it removed in July, deciding that free-standing flag poles are not aesthetically appropriate. Short flag stands attached to porches dot the community.

The HOA decided on a whim, without it being written into his contract, if he was allowed to put up a 21' flagpole. Another "booo!" is appropriate for their behavior.

re: #194 albusteve

guy defies a bad rule, and wins out...it's the American way

no it's not. an HOA is a small group of people who want the right to collaborate without a court telling them that some punk next door wants to put up structure X that you've clearly delineated as something the rest of the homeowners don't want. what is an HOA but democracy on a very small scale?

re: #189 Locker

The Obama administration didn't think it was lame. They backed the guy. I think the HOA backed down because Obama threatened to take them over.

re: #195 sattv4u2

And thats the point. What if another neighbor wanted to put up a conferderate flag, and the next a KKK flag, and the next ,,,

I doubt they would drum up quite the same level of support across the country!

re: #202 Locker

He can keep giving it but I really don't think it will change much. On the left there is a very strong feeling that we are in Afghanistan without any good reason. With regard to war the left doesn't normally jump on the band wagon very easy just for patriotic or hawkish reasons.

"A liberal is a person too broadminded to take their own side in a quarrel."

-Robert Frost

re: #196 albusteve

NO MINARETS!

Yodel it, and pass the smelly swiss cheese.

re: #209 Spare O'Lake

Yodel it, and pass the smelly swiss cheese.

I have visions of the Ricola guy.

re: #205 Aceofwhat?

no it's not. an HOA is a small group of people who want the right to collaborate without a court telling them that some punk next door wants to put up structure X that you've clearly delineated as something the rest of the homeowners don't want. what is an HOA but democracy on a very small scale?

it wasn't a structure, it was a pole...and the HOA is certainly not a democracy...you make way too much of it

Six, You still around? What's the weather like up in Detroit today? I have guys on the way.

re: #211 albusteve

it wasn't a structure, it was a pole...and the HOA is certainly not a democracy...you make way too much of it

look, i think HOA's can be stuffy and silly sometimes too. but...it's a board of people...who are elected by other homeowners...so...it's certainly a very very small form of democracy.

What, were these comrades installed by the DC-area spetsnaz?

re: #205 Aceofwhat?

no it's not. an HOA is a small group of people who want the right to collaborate without a court telling them that some punk next door wants to put up structure X that you've clearly delineated as something the rest of the homeowners don't want. what is an HOA but democracy on a very small scale?

Ummm...an HOA has the power of the court behind it. An HOA can slap a lien on your ass.

Mornin' kids.

Al Gore to Sarah Palin on AGW: It's like gravity, it exists

re: #202 Locker

I disagree about the motivations on the Left. They simply don't want to do the heavy lifting of defending the nation against the very enemies that struck at the US on 9/11. It's reflexive that they seek appeasement and accommodation, and it took the national outpouring of anger to push them to act after 9/11 to approve the mission in Afghanistan.

The Democrat party has internalized all the wrong lessons from Vietnam, and they see it in every corner of the world when it comes to dealing with our enemies - they believe every conflict will result in another fiasco, ignoring the fact that it was a failure to deal a decisive blow to the enemies that prolonged the conflicts. It was waging war as a limited campaign with political machinations that undermined the military efforts on the ground.

re: #214 MandyManners

Ummm...an HOA has the power of the court behind it. An HOA can slap a lien on your ass.

House, I mean.

re: #217 MandyManners

House, I mean.

That too.

re: #217 MandyManners

House, I mean.

Well, depending on how you finance the house, it may very well BE a lien on your ass...

*ducks*

re: #210 rwdflynavy

I have visions of the Ricola guy.

You really like his lederhosen, dontcha'?

re: #215 darthstar

Mornin' kids.

Al Gore to Sarah Palin on AGW: It's like gravity, it exists

Great, now someone is going to have to explain gravity to her...
/

re: #214 MandyManners

Ummm...an HOA has the power of the court behind it. An HOA can slap a lien on your ass.

right. and if you think the board members are kooky, you can get yourself elected quickly enough. that would be as opposed to the 9th circuit, which has a distinguished history of sucking, and you have much less chance of getting yourself elected to replace one of those jokers.

re: #221 nanook37

Great, now someone is going to have to explain gravity to her...
/

Yeah, but getting Gore to explain AGW is like getting Madoff to explain capitalism. I'm sure they both believe in the concepts, but neither of them have bothered with accuracy on the subject...

re: #216 lawhawk

I disagree about the motivations on the Left. They simply don't want to do the heavy lifting of defending the nation against the very enemies that struck at the US on 9/11. It's reflexive that they seek appeasement and accommodation, and it took the national outpouring of anger to push them to act after 9/11 to approve the mission in Afghanistan.

The Democrat party has internalized all the wrong lessons from Vietnam, and they see it in every corner of the world when it comes to dealing with our enemies - they believe every conflict will result in another fiasco, ignoring the fact that it was a failure to deal a decisive blow to the enemies that prolonged the conflicts. It was waging war as a limited campaign with political machinations that undermined the military efforts on the ground.

exactly correct...and the Iraqi is a textbook example, yet even during his campaign, BO was raving that the 'surge' failed...total disconnect cost lives

re: #216 lawhawk

I disagree about the motivations on the Left. They simply don't want to do the heavy lifting of defending the nation against the very enemies that struck at the US on 9/11. It's reflexive that they seek appeasement and accommodation, and it took the national outpouring of anger to push them to act after 9/11 to approve the mission in Afghanistan.

The Democrat party has internalized all the wrong lessons from Vietnam, and they see it in every corner of the world when it comes to dealing with our enemies - they believe every conflict will result in another fiasco, ignoring the fact that it was a failure to deal a decisive blow to the enemies that prolonged the conflicts. It was waging war as a limited campaign with political machinations that undermined the military efforts on the ground.

Your comments about the left seem like right wing attack points rather than actually left side feelings and opinions about these issues. Asking questions about why we are going to war isn't appeasement and it isn't accommodation. Those terms are used to silence dissent and discussion.

Col. Barfoots MOH citation:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty on 23 May 1944, near Carano, Italy. With his platoon heavily engaged during an assault against forces well entrenched on commanding ground, 2d Lt. Barfoot (then Tech. Sgt.) moved off alone upon the enemy left flank. He crawled to the proximity of 1 machinegun nest and made a direct hit on it with a hand grenade, killing 2 and wounding 3 Germans. He continued along the German defense line to another machinegun emplacement, and with his tommygun killed 2 and captured 3 soldiers. Members of another enemy machinegun crew then abandoned their position and gave themselves up to Sgt. Barfoot. Leaving the prisoners for his support squad to pick up, he proceeded to mop up positions in the immediate area, capturing more prisoners and bringing his total count to 17. Later that day, after he had reorganized his men and consolidated the newly captured ground, the enemy launched a fierce armored counterattack directly at his platoon positions. Securing a bazooka, Sgt. Barfoot took up an exposed position directly in front of 3 advancing Mark VI tanks. From a distance of 75 yards his first shot destroyed the track of the leading tank, effectively disabling it, while the other 2 changed direction toward the flank. As the crew of the disabled tank dismounted, Sgt. Barfoot killed 3 of them with his tommygun. He continued onward into enemy terrain and destroyed a recently abandoned German fieldpiece with a demolition charge placed in the breech. While returning to his platoon position, Sgt. Barfoot, though greatly fatigued by his Herculean efforts, assisted 2 of his seriously wounded men 1,700 yards to a position of safety. Sgt. Barfoot's extraordinary heroism, demonstration of magnificent valor, and aggressive determination in the face of pointblank fire are a perpetual inspiration to his fellow soldiers.

re: #217 MandyManners

House, I mean.

I know which I'd rather slap.

[I'll be quiet now]

re: #223 Aceofwhat?

Yeah, but getting Gore to explain AGW is like getting Madoff to explain capitalism. I'm sure they both believe in the concepts, but neither of them have bothered with accuracy on the subject...

Hey Ace, I figured you'd chime in to this effect.

re: #225 Locker

re: #216 lawhawk

Your comments about the left seem like right wing attack points rather than actually left side feelings and opinions about these issues. Asking questions about why we are going to war isn't appeasement and it isn't accommodation. Those terms are used to silence dissent and discussion.

Speaking of talking points.

re: #222 Aceofwhat?

right. and if you think the board members are kooky, you can get yourself elected quickly enough. that would be as opposed to the 9th circuit, which has a distinguished history of sucking, and you have much less chance of getting yourself elected to replace one of those jokers.

I lived under an HOA in Denver for a while. The board was rife with Yuppie attorneys. I enjoyed showing up at meetings wearing my "DIE YUPPIE SCUM" T-shirt. Or, my T-shirt with a drawing of Jane Fonda in work-out gear and a rice-paddy hat with the words, "I'M NOT FONDA HANOI JANE" on it.

Ah, good times.

re: #225 Locker

Your comments about the left seem like right wing attack points rather than actually left side feelings and opinions about these issues. Asking questions about why we are going to war isn't appeasement and it isn't accommodation. Those terms are used to silence dissent and discussion.

it seems pretty obvious to me why we should destroy the Taliban...I assumed we were all in agreement and way past that part of it

re: #227 ED 209

I know which I'd rather slap.

[I'll be quiet now]

You made me giggle.

re: #229 Bloodnok

Speaking of talking points.

You got the memo?

re: #225 Locker

Your comments about the left seem like right wing attack points rather than actually left side feelings and opinions about these issues. Asking questions about why we are going to war isn't appeasement and it isn't accommodation. Those terms are used to silence dissent and discussion.

The very first gulf war, and even Bosnia and Afghanistan, should tell you all you need to know about how the democrat party views the use of military force.

What's that girl got?

re: #228 darthstar

Hey Ace, I figured you'd chime in to this effect.

So you're saying i'm consistent!

GORE: Yeah, I don't think they did. I haven't read all the e-mails that were stolen. They're from -- the most recent one was like 10 years ago.

Liar

re: #230 MandyManners

I'd have voted for you in a heartbeat.

re: #237 Spare O'Lake

Liar

No. He just mispoke. Three times in a row.

re: #238 Aceofwhat?

I'd have voted for you in a heartbeat.

The check is in the mail.

re: #236 Aceofwhat?

So you're saying i'm consistent!

In your dislike for Al Gore, yes. Boring as he sounds, he makes some valid points...I know, I know, you think he's a hypocrite and he should just shut up and stand near a stack of burning tires.

re: #234 RogueOne

The very first gulf war, and even Bosnia and Afghanistan, should tell you all you need to know about how the democrat party views the use of military force.

Locker might get pissed at me for this one, but... I know he served in at least one of those. So using blanket statements like "The left doesn't want to defend America" against a vet is a pretty pitiful tactic in my opinion.

re: #239 MandyManners
See!...He's CONSISTENT!

re: #225 Locker

Asking questions about why going to war with al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan? Really? What questions are appropriate to ask - how many troops to send, how quickly to send them, and how much money to put aside.

You are joking right? Alrighty then. Consider the fact that Democrats are currently trying to: 1) limit the number of troops; 2) limit the money and look for all kinds of ways to hamstring the effort by proposing taxes and "fiscal responsibility" when they're busy throwing all kinds of money at social issues of dubious intent (aka pork) in the stimulus package; 3) question the utility of going to war in Afghanistan altogether and are looking for a lighter footprint citing all manner of issues dealing with Afghan infrastructure.

On that last point, it's almost hilarious to hear people like Kerry and others question Rumsfeld's decision to go in to Afghanistan with too few troops (most notably in relation to the Tora Bora campaign) at a time when the Democrats are resisting troop increases for precisely the same reasons alluded to by Rumsfeld and the DoD at that time - limited logistics, supply lines, difficult winter conditions, etc.

If anyone has an hour to kill and wants to know why there are still skeptics out there there is a great presentation from CERN on what it is we actually don't know about a variety of mechanisms that contribute to our climate.

[Link: cdsweb.cern.ch...]

Before someone asks, I'm not sure why the people at CERN hate science.

Ok!
Last post on the subject!
I'd like to see an H.O.A. require the Flag to be flown!!!
Where my folks live the office plaza entry flys the Flag 24/7 365!!!

HO HO HO!

re: #246 reloadingisnotahobby

Ok!
Last post on the subject!
I'd like to see an H.O.A. require the Flag to be flown!!!
Where my folks live the office plaza entry flys the Flag 24/7 365!!!

good idea...

re: #241 darthstar

In your dislike for Al Gore, yes. Boring as he sounds, he makes some valid points...I know, I know, you think he's a hypocrite and he should just shut up and stand near a stack of burning tires.

Actually, i'd settle for him just sticking to the facts. Homey invented the internet...he should log on from time to time and borrow some more factual statements. I'd actually give him props for that, as much as it would pain me...

re: #242 McSpiff

re: #234 RogueOne

Locker might get pissed at me for this one, but... I know he served in at least one of those. So using blanket statements like "The left doesn't want to defend America" against a vet is a pretty pitiful tactic in my opinion.

To try to end the discussion of a broader group because of the actions of one person is pitiful in its own right.

And Locker, many thanks for your service.

re: #249 Aceofwhat?

Actually, i'd settle for him just sticking to the facts. Homey invented the internet...he should log on from time to time and borrow some more factual statements. I'd actually give him props for that, as much as it would pain me...

I don't think he ever said he invented the internet

re: #245 RogueOne

If anyone has an hour to kill and wants to know why there are still skeptics out there there is a great presentation from CERN on what it is we actually don't know about a variety of mechanisms that contribute to our climate.

[Link: cdsweb.cern.ch...]

Before someone asks, I'm not sure why the people at CERN hate science.

Nice. A good example of why I'm at peace with AGW yet not in a hurry to jump into a grab-bag of solutions that make no economic sense whatsoever.

(no, i won't bring up nuclear power again, friends. i'll wait another three days or so...promise...*hands trembling*)

A fun, old-fashioned family Christmas.

re: #251 albusteve

I don't think he ever said he invented the internet

..but the space shuttle is still one of his creations... right?
/:)