Obama’s Nobel Acceptance Speech

Politics • Views: 4,308

If you still refuse to believe that Barack Obama has become a truly centrist President, read his Nobel Prize acceptance speech.

I face the world as it is, and cannot stand idle in the face of threats to the American people. For make no mistake: evil does exist in the world. A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler’s armies. Negotiations cannot convince Al Qaeda’s leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force is sometimes necessary is not a call to cynicism – it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.

I raise this point because in many countries there is a deep ambivalence about military action today, no matter the cause. At times, this is joined by a reflexive suspicion of America, the world’s sole military superpower.

Yet the world must remember that it was not simply international institutions – not just treaties and declarations – that brought stability to a post-World War II world. Whatever mistakes we have made, the plain fact is this: the United States of America has helped underwrite global security for more than six decades with the blood of our citizens and the strength of our arms.

Yes, that’s right — he acknowledged that there is true evil in the world, and made a strong case for the United States as a defender of freedom. Not exactly the words of an America-hating commie traitor, are they?

And as for the criticism that Obama doesn’t deserve the Nobel Peace Prize — well, he agrees:

I receive this honor with deep gratitude and great humility. It is an award that speaks to our highest aspirations – that for all the cruelty and hardship of our world, we are not mere prisoners of fate. Our actions matter, and can bend history in the direction of justice.

And yet I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. In part, this is because I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage. Compared to some of the giants of history who have received this prize – Schweitzer and King; Marshall and Mandela – my accomplishments are slight.

And then there are the men and women around the world who have been jailed and beaten in the pursuit of justice; those who toil in humanitarian organizations to relieve suffering; the unrecognized millions whose quiet acts of courage and compassion inspire even the most hardened of cynics. I cannot argue with those who find these men and women – some known, some obscure to all but those they help – to be far more deserving of this honor than I.

This is a very good speech, and shows the great distance that Obama has put between himself and the radical anti-war left.

But sadly, one of the 7 comments at the LA Times page where the text of Obama’s speech is posted demonstrates again the deranged, ugly racism that lies behind so much of the right wing’s hatred of Obama:

“I…I…I…me…me…me.

Citizens of the world I have arrived.”

Please tell me when the planet starts to heal and the oceans recede as promised.

This incompetent unaccomplished bafoon is a joke and disgrace.

Posted by: Michelle Wookiebama | December 10, 2009 at 08:46 AM

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357 comments
1 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:16:06am

He's a pragmatic centrist, and I can forgive him for it.

2 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:16:13am

Sadly, many of his fellow Democrats in Congress disagree with the President. This is the kind of speech that Obama needs to keep making to his caucus in Congress. After all, they're the ones who are trying to kill the mission in Afghanistan; tried to kill the mission in Iraq; and have consistently tried to treat evil regimes with appeasement and feckless policies that only cause such regimes to try and push even more strident policies.

3 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:16:50am

He hasn't changed. This is how he's always been. He's always been a centrist.

4 bosforus  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:17:13am

How dare Obama use the word "I" when giving an acceptance speech!

5 Kragar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:17:15am

TEH HORROR!

///

6 Kragar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:17:39am

re: #4 bosforus

How dare Obama use the word "I" when giving an acceptance speech!

Its just like Hitler!

/

7 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:18:14am

re: #3 recusancy

He hasn't changed. This is how he's always been. He's always been a centrist.

During the campaign, however, he made a lot of statements that pandered politically to the far left -- that's why they feel so betrayed.

8 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:18:33am

I thought the speech was pretty good, particularly in his acknowledgment that he hadn't done anything to deserve it. I also thought his refusal to waste a lot of time there was a nice compromise between overly fawning over the prize and outright rejecting it as political rather than deserved; it pretty much said yeah, it's sorta important, the Peace Prize is, but I've got better things to do and I gotta go.

Overall, nicely played.

9 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:19:35am
The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans. We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will. We have done so out of enlightened self-interest – because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if other peoples’ children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity.

Really well said. In my opinion, this is one of his best speeches yet.

10 Cato the Elder  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:20:00am

"I come before you today, humbled and with head bowed - because this premature award hangs heavy round my neck like a millstone. I have done nothing so far to earn it. Therefore, I am respectfully returning it to the 'Congratulations, You're Not George Bush' committee with the request that it be passed along to that Congolese doctor who treats all those thousands of rape victims at the risk of his own life. You know who I mean.

"And now, back to pretending to do something about the climate."

11 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:20:30am

re: #3 recusancy

You weren't paying attention during the campaign - both during the primaries and the general election then, because Obama was consistently pandering to the far left - both in terms of quitting Iraq and Afghanistan, and sharply curtailing US military involvement worldwide.

This is a rebuke to the far left - and many of those in Congress.

Bear in mind that the President needed the GOP to get the Afghan surge adopted in Congress because many Democrats wanted to cut funding; not increase it.

12 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:20:48am

re: #7 Charles

During the campaign, however, he made a lot of statements that pandered politically to the far left -- that's why they feel so betrayed.

Like what? I may have selective memory. He always said he wanted to end the war in Iraq and focus on Afghanistan.

13 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:21:11am

Internet polling is showing only about 25% of respondents thinking he deserved the prize, with the rest split between whatever the remaining answers are, ranging from "He absolutely deserved it" to "He deserved it, but not now." Such a small margin of support indicates that at least as many on the Left are unhappy with this as on the Right, albeit for entirely different reasons.

14 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:22:01am

A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler’s armies. Negotiations cannot convince Al Qaeda’s leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force is sometimes necessary is not a call to cynicism – it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.

— Barak Husein Obama


Please ding this up onto the top 10.

15 Spider mensch  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:22:20am

I think I felt a tingle..oops! My mistake, just that pesky bear trap the kids left laying around again..:))) Honey? can you bring me some iodine and a bandaid?

16 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:22:46am

re: #3 recusancy

He hid that centrism quite well during the campaign. Bait & Switch is what that's called. The magic disappearing re-appearing middle name is just fascinatiing from a personal image spin perspective.

Okay great speech. Now let's see what he does.

17 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:22:47am

NPR did a story last night with President Obama's speech writer and President Bush's. Bush's writer predictably condemned President Obama with backhanded praise, but did acknowledge that the Afghanistan speech was a change from his previous speeches.

President Obama's writer was interesting. He talked about how the president will give him an outline, how he'll write a draft, and how the draft will come back with pages of paragraphs stapled to it, margin notes, etc. He said that President Obama is very easy to write for, because he does so much of the work himself and that he often just takes passages out of Obama's books and inserts them in the speeches because they're that appropriate.

Good speech...thanks for posting the link. I have to say I don't envy the position the president is in right now...taking shots from both sides, left and right. But that's what you get when you try to be a centrist.

18 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:23:01am

Obama just violated Godwin's rule!!! /

19 Cato the Elder  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:23:39am

Charles, about that post you quoted:

This incompetent unaccomplished bafoon is a joke and disgrace.

If "bafoon" isn't a racist dog-whistle, I've never heard one.

20 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:24:04am

This is yet another reason why I belong the Loyal Opposition (looking for additional members btw)...

21 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:24:08am

A friend who is a self described leftist told me last weekend that he now despises the man. He sees Obama as a turn coat but I reminded him that Obama was vague and that Hope and Change are very vague things.

Anyways, my worst fears about the guy (after all - he was vague to everyone) have not panned out. I generally support him though he needs to cut the deficit instead of appropriating $200B in TARP funds for new pork programs in the name of jobs.

Then again, his predecessor didn't have a problem spending either.

22 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:24:30am

re: #7 Charles

And from their perspective very rightly outraged at the betrayal. Well betrayals.

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Depends on the typo-Buffoon would not be racial, of course the animal reference would be.

23 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:24:31am

re: #11 lawhawk

I'm sorry, but I heard Obama say that Afghanistan was an important war throughout the campaign.

24 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:24:56am

re: #19 Cato the Elder

It's the name of the person posting - the wookiebama...

25 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:25:00am

re: #7 Charles

During the campaign, however, he made a lot of statements that pandered politically to the far left -- that's why they feel so betrayed.

Candidates paint themselves as all things to all voters. The leftward howls are in part a pre-emptive warning.

26 bosforus  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:25:19am

re: #19 Cato the Elder

How is "bafoon" racist?

27 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:25:52am

re: #7 Charles

During the campaign, however, he made a lot of statements that pandered politically to the far left -- that's why they feel so betrayed.

There are a couple of issues that really stick in the craws of progressives, but I also think he will address these issues, like DOMA and DADT, in the near future, but he wants to give Congress a chance to do their job first. DADT is stupid, and most military brass (except the "our god is stronger than their god" types) are for lifting the ban on gays in the military.

He always said he'd send more troops to Afghanistan--throughout his campaign--so that's not a change, and most progressives understand that.

28 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:26:12am

re: #26 bosforus

reference to baboon.

29 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:26:32am

re: #26 bosforus

How is "bafoon" racist?


That depends is it a misspelling of baboon or buffoon?

30 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:26:45am

re: #26 bosforus

How is "bafoon" racist?

I think it is less "bafoon" (which could be read as an intentional cross between "baboon" and "buffoon") than his username "Wokkiebama". ALthough both alternatives are disgusting.

31 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:26:52am

re: #3 recusancy

He hasn't changed. This is how he's always been. He's always been a centrist.

Really, then how come the far-left feel betrayed. It's because he pandered to them or lied to them, one or the other.

I like this speech.

32 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:27:24am

re: #26 bosforus

How is "bafoon" racist?

I'm guessing the writer meant baboon, or merged baboon and buffoon as some kind of attempt at brilliant rhetoric.

33 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:27:32am
Michelle Wookiebama


Ugh

34 researchok  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:27:41am

It was hands-down the best speech Obama has ever delivered.

35 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:28:17am

Any dem primary voter who voted for Obama because they thought he was going to pull out of Afghanistan wasn't listening to him. This isn't some bait and switch. He's doing what he said he'd do.

Maybe people hoped he was lying but.. he wasn't.

36 Cato the Elder  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:28:20am
The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans. We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will. We have done so out of enlightened self-interest – because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if other peoples’ children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity.

Certain wingbats at Copenhagen are not going to be happy about that bolded word. After all, it's prosperity that's ruining the planet.

37 all4one  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:28:31am

Why can't any of the deranged, racist Obama-haters spell? Is there not one educated lunatic out there?

38 astronmr20  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:28:57am

re: #7 Charles

During the campaign, however, he made a lot of statements that pandered politically to the far left -- that's why they feel so betrayed.

Definitely- which is why this speech surprised me so much.

It was very well-done.

39 Cato the Elder  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:29:18am

re: #29 DaddyG

That depends is it a misspelling of baboon or buffoon?

It is not a misspelling of either. It's a deliberate ploy with implausible deniability.

40 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:29:25am

Obama is evolving. I thought he might - all Presidents do; my major concern going into this presidency was that he wold be unable to allow himself to learn from experience, due to pressure from the left wing of his party. In fact, I miahgt have voted for him 4 years from now, after he gained some more experience as a Senator. As it is, I wonder whether a President who clearly has to "learn on the job" is not a liability at this point in history.

41 bosforus  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:29:30am

re: #28 Ojoe

re: #32 darthstar

I'm guessing the writer meant baboon, or merged baboon and buffoon as some kind of attempt at brilliant rhetoric.

My first thought was that s/he doesn't know how to spell buffoon. But I don't rule your conclusion out. I'm just sayin'.

42 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:29:31am

re: #21 karmic_inquisitor

(snip)
Anyways, my worst fears about the guy (after all - he was vague to everyone) have not panned out. (snip)

Perhaps he can run as GOP in 2012. Looks like they have openings for centrists.

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:29:32am

re: #7 Charles

During the campaign, however, he made a lot of statements that pandered politically to the far left -- that's why they feel so betrayed.

Eh, whatever. I mean, that's probably true, but you'd think by now the far left would get over believing any damn thing someone says on the campaign trail.

44 Racer X  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:29:42am

re: #37 all4one

Why can't any of the deranged, racist Obama-haters spell? Is there not one educated lunatic out there?

Bill Ayers.

45 The Optimist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:29:52am

Obama gave a great speech with perspectives on why he did not deserve the Nobel prize and why war is unavoidable. The speech does not count as an accomplishment. Obama has said one thing and done another thing so many times, that I am not ready to trust his words.

I really liked how Obama was in and out of Norway in one day and did not hang around for three days of partys for a fake coronation. Maybe the Nobel committee will be serious in their future choices.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:30:34am

re: #10 Cato the Elder

"I come before you today, humbled and with head bowed - because this premature award hangs heavy round my neck like a millstone. I have done nothing so far to earn it. Therefore, I am respectfully returning it to the 'Congratulations, You're Not George Bush' committee with the request that it be passed along to that Congolese doctor who treats all those thousands of rape victims at the risk of his own life. You know who I mean.

"And now, back to pretending to do something about the climate."

OK, that would have been very cool...I have to admit it.

47 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:30:36am

re: #39 Cato the Elder

It is not a misspelling of either. It's a deliberate ploy with implausible deniability.

I think you give the poster waaay to much credit in terms of literacy and spelling acumen. But that begs the question; which came first racism or stupidity?

48 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:30:47am

re: #36 Cato the Elder

Certain wingbats at Copenhagen are not going to be happy about that bolded word. After all, it's prosperity that's ruining the planet.

No, just the particular way we're currently going about prosperity. We don't need to be using CO2-producing energy sources forever, and we'll figure out how to change away from them. The faster we do so, the less climate change we'll have to deal with.

49 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:30:51am

re: #27 darthstar

DADT is stupid, and most military brass (except the "our god is stronger than their god" types) are for lifting the ban on gays in the military.

It is stupid, and has been from the beginning. If it's true that the military has no objections, then the simplest expedient would be to allow the military to make the final determination. I suspect you're correct, and the ban on homosexuals in service would immediately be lifted.

In fact, this is what I had hoped Clinton would do when the issue moved to the front burner during his term. Instead, we wound up with the DADT non-decision that sorta looked like a decision.

50 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:31:14am

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

Likewise, shouldn't we also give the same slack to the far right?

I'm in the trust but verify camp - I don't trust the far right or far left and the candidates proffered from either. I will verify based on their actions.

51 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:31:32am

btw I am listening to an absolutely brilliant album: Strawberry Jam by Animal Collective.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:31:59am

re: #12 recusancy

Like what? I may have selective memory. He always said he wanted to end the war in Iraq and focus on Afghanistan.

I think all a lot of people heard was "end the war in Iraq".

You know, like the Gary Larsen cartoon, where the guy is yelling at his dog, and all the dog gets is "Blah, blah, Ginger, blah blah blah blah, Ginger, blah blah blah Ginger!"

53 Izzyboy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:32:15am

This is good. Really good. But...

He's been way too schitzo; flopping between great stuff like this and retarded apologies to the world for Americas actions.

I am too cynical to agree with the commenters here that say that he was a centrist all along.

54 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:32:33am

re: #28 Ojoe

For the critics-Perhaps we need a denigrating animal reference that would not be racist. If there is none, it's another first-A President utterly immune from a certain kind of insult. I do not use animal references I prefer sports.
Rookie.

55 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:32:46am

@recusancy: a downding? whatever for? What of that relatively harmless statement struck you as dingable one way or the other? Happy to discus.

56 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:32:53am

re: #53 Izzyboy

I will gladly take a centrist now.

57 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:32:57am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Family's favorite cartoon.

58 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:33:17am

re: #45 Venezuela lover

...Maybe the Nobel committee will be serious in their future choices.

So optimistic. So innocent. So sweet. /

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:33:39am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

Really, then how come the far-left feel betrayed. It's because he pandered to them or lied to them, one or the other.

I like this speech.

They 'built him a soul' as some writer or other said. I think there was a lot of 'well, he HAS to say that NOW' going on.

60 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:33:45am

re: #45 Venezuela lover

Obama gave a great speech with perspectives on why he did not deserve the Nobel prize and why war is unavoidable. The speech does not count as an accomplishment. Obama has said one thing and done another thing so many times, that I am not ready to trust his words.

I really liked how Obama was in and out of Norway in one day and did not hang around for three days of partys for a fake coronation. Maybe the Nobel committee will be serious in their future choices.

I think his abbreviated schedule was an intentional mild slap at a committee that has cheapened the prize immensely in recent years. His way of saying thanks, but I've got better things to do than pal around here.

61 researchok  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:33:57am

re: #53 Izzyboy

This is good. Really good. But...

He's been way too schitzo; flopping between great stuff like this and retarded apologies to the world for Americas actions.

I am too cynical to agree with the commenters here that say that he was a centrist all along.

What he was before is in many ways irrelevant.

He has become a realist and a pragmatist. No matter your politics, those are good traits for a President of the US

62 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:33:57am

re: #45 Venezuela lover

Obama gave a great speech with perspectives on why he did not deserve the Nobel prize and why war is unavoidable. The speech does not count as an accomplishment. Obama has said one thing and done another thing so many times, that I am not ready to trust his words.

I really liked how Obama was in and out of Norway in one day and did not hang around for three days of partys for a fake coronation. Maybe the Nobel committee will be serious in their future choices.

They were serious in their choice, and Obama was serious in his reply to the award. I don't like Obama, but I have no problem giving him credit where credit is due, and in this case, he deserves the praise. It was a very intelligent speech which didn't no deny the reality of the situation.

63 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:33:59am

re: #54 Rightwingconspirator

There were cartoons of Lincoln drawn to resemble a monkey IIRC. None of this is new.

64 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:34:06am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

I think all a lot of people heard was "end the war in Iraq".

You know, like the Gary Larsen cartoon, where the guy is yelling at his dog, and all the dog gets is "Blah, blah, Ginger, blah blah blah blah, Ginger, blah blah blah Ginger!"

My absolute favourite Far Side. Applies to teenage children, as well.

65 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:34:23am

re: #50 lawhawk

Likewise, shouldn't we also give the same slack to the far right?

I'm in the trust but verify camp - I don't trust the far right or far left and the candidates proffered from either. I will verify based on their actions.

The far left candidates were Kucinich (for the true believers) and Edwards (because of his populism). Believe me. I was an Obama campaigner from day one. I had to battle far lefties constantly about not ending Afghanistan.

66 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:34:23am

I don't think the President started a centrist. I think he became one when he got ALL the information after becoming POTUS.

67 Izzyboy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:34:29am

re: #56 Ojoe

I couldn't agree more. I'm not yet convinced that Obama is.

68 [deleted]  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:34:43am
69 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:34:58am

re: #50 lawhawk

Likewise, shouldn't we also give the same slack to the far right?

I'm in the trust but verify camp - I don't trust the far right or far left and the candidates proffered from either. I will verify based on their actions.

I'm willing to accept that the far right are also idiots, yes... ;)

70 Mark Pennington  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:35:15am

re: #3 recusancy

He hasn't changed. This is how he's always been. He's always been a centrist.

He certainly has but you can say this until you're blue in the face but some will keep saying "HE'S THE MOST LIBERAL POLITICIAN IN ALL THE LAND!"

71 charles_martel  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:35:48am

re: #3 recusancy

He hasn't changed. This is how he's always been. He's always been a centrist.

No, his congressional voting record and past associations prior to election were very far left. He has modified, it seems, on foreign policy. That is good. I assume that has a lot to do with the top secret info he is now getting as prez.

72 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:35:52am

re: #63 Ojoe

There were cartoons of Lincoln drawn to resemble a monkey IIRC. None of this is new.

Wow. You are older than I suspected. /

73 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:36:22am

re: #63 Ojoe

There were cartoons of Lincoln drawn to resemble a monkey IIRC. None of this is new.

Doesn't make it right.

74 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:36:26am

re: #72 DaddyG

My joints hurt.

LOL

75 [deleted]  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:36:30am
76 mich-again  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:36:51am

I think it was a fine speech. Maybe if he said "nucular" once in a while it would make people feel better?

77 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:37:13am

re: #53 Izzyboy

This is good. Really good. But...

He's been way too schitzo; flopping between great stuff like this and retarded apologies to the world for Americas actions.

I am too cynical to agree with the commenters here that say that he was a centrist all along.

Sometimes acknowledging (which isn't the same as apologizing for) past mistakes is the right thing to do, even though some people here at home won't understand it. It sends a signal to those who would be enemies that they don't have to be enemies. A favorite saying of mine during the Bush administration (because he spoke in terms of enemy/ally) was "To have an enemy, you must first agree to BE an enemy." I think that's the approach the President is taking to international relations. And yes, it is a centrist idea.

78 mich-again  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:37:44am

re: #3 recusancy

He hasn't changed. This is how he's always been. He's always been a centrist.

Ha. That there is pretty funny.

If that were true he wouldn't have won the Dem nomination.

79 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:38:34am

re: #77 darthstar

crap...didn't close my italics block...should have only been don't have to be and straight text after.

80 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:38:41am

re: #70 beekiller

He certainly has but you can say this until you're blue in the face but some will keep saying "HE'S THE MOST LIBERAL POLITICIAN IN ALL THE LAND!"


His voting record in the legislature was the most liberal in the land. However he was still within the spectrum of legitimate political thought in the US.

81 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:38:46am

re: #75 imp_62

That is as may be. But urbandictionary is hardly a quotable source; a reference source or supporting document, perhaps, but I would no sooner lean on its reliability as I would on that of Wikipedia.

It does mention it as a reference to a baboon...

Bafoon- A cross between a baboon and a babbling idiot.

Considering the reference and the authors screen name, they knew it was racist.

82 Izzyboy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:38:50am

re: #75 imp_62

Hey now, leave Wikipedia alone :p

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:39:08am

re: #76 mich-again

I think it was a fine speech. Maybe if he said "nucular" once in a while it would make people feel better?

I have noticed that Sarah Palin uses both 'nuke-leer' and 'nuke-you-lahr', apparently interchangeably. My two theories about this are that she normally uses 2 but has been shamed partially out of it by people who insist 1 is the only correct form, or that she normally uses 1, but tries to remember to use 2 as a tribute to Bush.

84 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:39:13am

Malkin is ripping him for being honest. Or some damn thing. She's almost completely incoherent these days, and it's hard to tell just what her point is sometimes.

85 [deleted]  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:40:00am
86 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:40:00am

That's one meltdown already.

87 FrogMarch  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:40:08am

In defense of the speech.
From someone at NRO.

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:40:09am

re: #84 SixDegrees

Malkin is ripping him for being honest. Or some damn thing. She's almost completely incoherent these days, and it's hard to tell just what her point is sometimes.

She just doesn't like him.

89 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:40:24am

Uhhh, why are people so fixated on the misspelling of buffoon? The racist element is the "Wookie" part.

90 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:40:29am

re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist

I have noticed that Sarah Palin uses both 'nuke-leer' and 'nuke-you-lahr', apparently interchangeably. My two theories about this are that she normally uses 2 but has been shamed partially out of it by people who insist 1 is the only correct form, or that she normally uses 1, but tries to remember to use 2 as a tribute to Bush.

Alternative 3) She doesn't know what the fuck she is talking about, so it does not really matter how she pronounciates it.

91 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:40:58am

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Uhhh, why are people so fixated on the misspelling of buffoon? The racist element is the "Wookie" part.

What's a Wookie?

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:40:58am

re: #90 imp_62

Alternative 3) She doesn't know what the fuck she is talking about, so it does not really matter how she pronounciates it.

Well, that's also a possibility.

93 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:41:23am

I thought the speech was good, in fact very informative. President Obama showed more class than the idiots that voted to give him the Peace Prize. Getting in and out of Norway without all the pomp was also, in my opinion, just the right message.

94 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:41:24am

That one had a sock puppet registered too.

95 Soap_Man  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:41:29am

re: #80 DaddyG

His voting record in the legislature was the most liberal in the land. However he was still within the spectrum of legitimate political thought in the US.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that "most liberal voting record" the opinion of one organization? The National Journal, I think.

Basically, they said it and everybody who wanted to paint him as a radical kept repeating it as if it was gospel.

But just because people repeat something over and over and over, that doesn't make it true.

96 SteveC  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:41:41am

re: #84 SixDegrees

Malkin is ripping him for being honest. Or some damn thing. She's almost completely incoherent these days, and it's hard to tell just what her point is sometimes.

Change "Malkin" to "Laura Ingraham" and it will still be true. :(

*quickly becoming disillusioned with Ms. Ingraham*

97 FrogMarch  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:41:54am

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

What's a Wookie?

star wars. Have you seen it?

98 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:41:58am

I've read the whole thing, and frankly, I'm moved. That was a very American speech. We desire peace, but accept reality that war happens, and as a people we try to do the right thing, and stand up for people's right to live free. We make mistakes, but on the whole, America has been a force for good in this world, even when we have had to go to war.

Far from tossing America under the bus, the President made a case for why we are the greatest nation on Earth.

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:42:34am

Good speech. Touched on the fact that a lot of people deserve it more than he at this moment in time.

I agree.

I am not super "Pro Bush" but I would like to see him recognized globally for the things he did for the African Continent.

100 JamesWI  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:42:47am

OT:

Over at that lovely site Hot Air, there are a number of people claiming that a NC constitutional provision that on its face bars atheists from serving in public office is constitutional because it is not a religious test, based on atheism not being a religion. Then there are the great legal scholars who believe it is inherently true that state constitutions can blatantly violate the portions of the U.S. Constitution that have been held to apply to the states through the 14th Amendment. Good lord, I almost wanted to create an account there to point out how ridiculously idiotic they all are. I bet I would have been called an "elitist."

Welcome to the new, Sarah Palin-loving "base" of the GOP: where education, intelligence, and a basic knowledge of the Constitution are considered negatives.

101 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:42:50am

re: #94 Charles

That one had a sock puppet registered too.

Which one? I always miss the good stuff. I just HAVE to stop trying to get work done while posting.

102 redtickbeer  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:42:50am

re: #80 DaddyG

Funny, you'd think an avowed Socialist like Bernie Sanders would have had the most liberal voting record in the Senate. Or you could believe that the National Review was simply playing politics with their analysis. Regardless he was left of center and continues to be so.

103 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:43:00am

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

What's a Wookie?

Wookie.

104 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:43:01am

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

What's a Wookie?

Hard right nuts apply variations as an insult to FLOTUS.

105 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:43:02am

re: #95 Soap_Man

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that "most liberal voting record" the opinion of one organization? The National Journal, I think.

Basically, they said it and everybody who wanted to paint him as a radical kept repeating it as if it was gospel.

But just because people repeat something over and over and over, that doesn't make it true.


Objectively speaking his votes heavily favored the progressive Democratic positions. I would consider that liberal.

Then again I'm not inclined to use liberal and conservative as synonyms for moonbat and wingnut.

106 Mark Pennington  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:43:16am

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

She just doesn't like him.

lol I don't think I've ever witnessed a pundit despise anyone as much as she despises Obama.

107 Gus  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:43:37am

A very good speech by the president and one that I feel is almost counterintuitive to the Norwegian Nobel Committee: arguing peace through strength.

108 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:43:38am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

Because they could embrace many of the positions he put forward - universal healthcare, cap and trade, ending the rational for torture while ignoring his positions on Afghanistan and to a lesser degree Irag. And further, many of the hard lefties who complain now (many of my New England pals) didn't vote for him as their state was reliably blue to begin with. You know, it's possible to support a candidate that does not align 100% with your own positions.

I can tell you for certain, as I worked for the campaign here from June till November in southern Ohio in a county and district traditionally red, that we understood his positions on Afghanistan and some of us (me included) used it as a talking point when canvassing in traditionally GOP neighborhoods.

109 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:43:56am

re: #87 FrogMarch

In defense of the speech.
From someone at NRO.

Not bad, but I've yet to see a point in this first year where President Obama has "undermined the moral achievements of America" though the author says he's done so repeatedly...

...snip...What made this speech notable was that the president did not go before a foreign audience and undermine the moral achievements of America, as he has repeatedly done in the past. In fact, he praised the United States for the burden it has borne and the sacrifices it has made on behalf of peace, justice, and stability. Those sentiments wouldn’t be unusual for most presidents to have or express — yet for whatever reasons, Obama has had difficulty giving voice to them. ...snip...

It really is tough for some people to give honest praise without throwing in a barb or two...shame.

110 SteveC  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:44:13am

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

What's a Wookie?

re: #97 FrogMarch

star wars. Have you seen it?

The Force is not strong in this one, Master FrogMarch.

111 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:44:15am

re: #106 beekiller

lol I don't think I've ever witnessed a pundit despise anyone as much as she despises Obama.

how about Kos and his view of Bush?

112 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:44:19am

Somewhere Krauthammer's head exploded. Especially after his screed at the Manhattan institute this fall.

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:44:36am

I didn't even notice the misspelling.

doh!

114 mbruce  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:44:36am

I simply do not put any creed in a word this man says.Period.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:44:36am

re: #98 Sharmuta

I've read the whole thing, and frankly, I'm moved. That was a very American speech. We desire peace, but accept reality that war happens, and as a people we try to do the right thing, and stand up for people's right to live free. We make mistakes, but on the whole, America has been a force for good in this world, even when we have had to go to war.

Far from tossing America under the bus, the President made a case for why we are the greatest nation on Earth.

Nice touch. They were expecting an apology speech, and they didn't get one. He's good with hitting a disorienting note with different audiences. Puts a little spin on the ball.

116 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:44:54am

re: #108 Jeff In Ohio

Because they could embrace many of the positions he put forward - universal healthcare, cap and trade, ending the rational for torture while ignoring his positions on Afghanistan and to a lesser degree Irag. And further, many of the hard lefties who complain now (many of my New England pals) didn't vote for him as their state was reliably blue to begin with. You know, it's possible to support a candidate that does not align 100% with your own positions.

I can tell you for certain, as I worked for the campaign here from June till November in southern Ohio in a county and district traditionally red, that we understood his positions on Afghanistan and some of us (me included) used it as a talking point when canvassing in traditionally GOP neighborhoods.

Interesting insight. Thanks.

117 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:44:58am

re: #97 FrogMarch

star wars. Have you seen it?

Yea... but I don't know how that is a reference to Obama, that's all. People up thread was saying the word Wookie was a clue to the racist remark. I could see the "bafoon" word being a racist reference, I'm just missing something about Wookie.

118 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:45:06am

re: #95 Soap_Man

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that "most liberal voting record" the opinion of one organization? The National Journal, I think.

Basically, they said it and everybody who wanted to paint him as a radical kept repeating it as if it was gospel.

But just because people repeat something over and over and over, that doesn't make it true.

Some on the left hoped he was lying about his centrism to get elected. Most on the right believed that he was lying about his centrism (or didn't really listen to him and just read other righties opinions of him) to get elected.

Of course maybe he was saying what he believed and has followed through on it all to many peoples dismay (on the left because it doesn't feel like much change to do centrist things - on the right because it's harder paint a centrist as a radical).

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:45:39am

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Good speech. Touched on the fact that a lot of people deserve it more than he at this moment in time.

I agree.

I am not super "Pro Bush" but I would like to see him recognized globally for the things he did for the African Continent.

I wonder if Bush will take that sort of work up seriously, now that he's in retirement. He's still a very young man.

He does seem like the sort to enjoy hanging at the ranch with his family, though.

120 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:45:43am

re: #114 mbruce

this man


Who?

121 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:46:04am

re: #108 Jeff In Ohio

Because they could embrace many of the positions he put forward - universal healthcare, cap and trade, ending the rational for torture while ignoring his positions on Afghanistan and to a lesser degree Irag. And further, many of the hard lefties who complain now (many of my New England pals) didn't vote for him as their state was reliably blue to begin with. You know, it's possible to support a candidate that does not align 100% with your own positions.

I can tell you for certain, as I worked for the campaign here from June till November in southern Ohio in a county and district traditionally red, that we understood his positions on Afghanistan and some of us (me included) used it as a talking point when canvassing in traditionally GOP neighborhoods.

Well. evidently some of the far-left 100 percent supported him, and 75 percent misunderstood his positions.

122 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:46:11am

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

Yea... but I don't know how that is a reference to Obama, that's all. People up thread was saying the word Wookie was a clue to the racist remark. I could see the "bafoon" word being a racist reference, I'm just missing something about Wookie.

In the Star Wars films, a wookie is an ape-like creature.

123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:46:15am

We used to love Michelle Malkin around here. Damn that Beck and his Terrible Derangement Machine!

124 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:46:33am

re: #114 mbruce

I simply do not put any creed in a word this man says.Period.

Hmm. You mean "lend credence to"?

125 Soap_Man  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:46:38am

re: #105 DaddyG

Objectively speaking his votes heavily favored the progressive Democratic positions. I would consider that liberal.

Then again I'm not inclined to use liberal and conservative as synonyms for moonbat and wingnut.

Oh, I agree that his voting record in the senate was more liberal than his actions and statements since he started running for president.

But, knowing of some of the Dems in Congress (especially the House) I have a VERY hard time saying he was the "most liberal." For God's sake, there is a real life, self-declared Socialist in congress.

126 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:46:50am

re: #37 all4one

Why can't any of the deranged, racist Obama-haters spell? Is there not one educated lunatic out there?


Michael Savage?

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:47:01am

re: #100 JamesWI

OT:

Over at that lovely site Hot Air, there are a number of people claiming that a NC constitutional provision that on its face bars atheists from serving in public office is constitutional because it is not a religious test, based on atheism not being a religion. Then there are the great legal scholars who believe it is inherently true that state constitutions can blatantly violate the portions of the U.S. Constitution that have been held to apply to the states through the 14th Amendment. Good lord, I almost wanted to create an account there to point out how ridiculously idiotic they all are. I bet I would have been called an "elitist."

Welcome to the new, Sarah Palin-loving "base" of the GOP: where education, intelligence, and a basic knowledge of the Constitution are considered negatives.

They treat the Constitution just like they treat the Bible--a document to pound on, cherish, and carefully cull quotes out of, but never actually try to understand, or allow to influence your thinking.

Both deserve better.

128 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:47:21am

re: #118 recusancy

Some on the left hoped he was lying about his centrism to get elected. Most on the right believed that he was lying about his centrism (or didn't really listen to him and just read other righties opinions of him) to get elected.

Of course maybe he was saying what he believed and has followed through on it all to many peoples dismay (on the left because it doesn't feel like much change to do centrist things - on the right because it's harder paint a centrist as a radical).

I think is is easier to say that people on the right and people on the left didn't understand this person well. It seems that he is not living up to a lot of expectations.

129 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:47:26am

re: #63 Ojoe

Exactly my point. The race is also used as an insulator against critics. Obama supporters easily overplay the racial angle as a "dogwhistle" accusation against nearly any criticism. Again he and his people work it both ways.

What do we call a false dogwhistle?

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:47:45am

re: #104 Decatur Deb

Hard right nuts apply variations as an insult to FLOTUS.

I suspect that many of them are shorter than she is, and not in as good shape. This may inform their resentment.

131 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:47:50am

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

He does seem like the sort to enjoy hanging at the ranch with his family, though.

It's a big ranch and there's an awful lot of brush that needs clearing...

132 S'latch  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:48:07am

I imagine that some on the committee that awarded Obama the Nobel Peace Prize were a little disappointed to hear some of those words spoken in his acceptance speech.

133 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:48:07am

re: #108 Jeff In Ohio

Because they could embrace many of the positions he put forward - universal healthcare, cap and trade, ending the rational for torture while ignoring his positions on Afghanistan and to a lesser degree Irag. And further, many of the hard lefties who complain now (many of my New England pals) didn't vote for him as their state was reliably blue to begin with. You know, it's possible to support a candidate that does not align 100% with your own positions.

I can tell you for certain, as I worked for the campaign here from June till November in southern Ohio in a county and district traditionally red, that we understood his positions on Afghanistan and some of us (me included) used it as a talking point when canvassing in traditionally GOP neighborhoods.

Yes! Exactly. Hello fellow campaigner ;)

134 kitemonkey  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:48:10am

I think I'm going to go make some popcorn because the loud flail is already underway!

135 SteveC  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:48:31am

re: #123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We used to love Michelle Malkin around here. Damn that Beck and his Terrible Derangement Machine!

She's still hot. But all that heat is making smoke come out of her ears!

136 Izzyboy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:48:36am

re: #107 Gus 802

A very good speech by the president and one that I feel is almost counterintuitive to the Norwegian Nobel Committee: arguing peace through strength.

Any day "peace even if we lose" freaks get smacked in the mouth is a good day.

137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:48:49am

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

I still don't know what to think of him. I'd like to have a beer summit with him to learn more. Walter? We'll get you a coke if you want to come.

138 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:48:50am

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

What's a Wookie?

To us music-festival going types, a wookie is this

I think wookiebama means something more along the lines of star wars though.

139 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:48:51am

I've not had much reason to be happy with Obama. He hasn't shaped the health care legislation now moving through Congress, and it reeks. His cap and trade idea is much inferior to a straight CO2 tax, in part because cap and trade lends itself to corruption far more readily than does a straight tax. He's not had any success, nor even much tried, promoting wind, solar, or nuclear. Cash for clunkers was a clunker. TARP spending is misspent.

He's better at giving speeches. This was a good speech. Better still, it wasn't an empty good speech. This one fits in with his recent decision on Afghanistan.

Here's hoping this is the beginning of a run of sorts.

140 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:49:00am

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder if Bush will take that sort of work up seriously, now that he's in retirement. He's still a very young man.

He does seem like the sort to enjoy hanging at the ranch with his family, though.


After the treatment he got from many in the press and more vitriolic pundits I suspect he'd like to stay waaay out of the limelight for a while.

I think the American public figures and media who tear down the President in personal and even untrue terms do us all a disservice by undermining our position and ability to do good in the world.

If you watch old film of press conferences during he Kennedy administration you would be shocked at the difference we see now with Bush and Obama.

141 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:49:09am

re: #122 Charles

In the Star Wars films, a wookie is an ape-like creature.

Ok, I don't think I had ever seen it referenced to Obama, that's all. I don't hang around other blogs so I'm not as informed about all these different "games" that people play. And even when certain topics come up here, in regards to what people are saying at other blogs, I generally ignore the conversation.

Thanks for the info.

142 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:49:11am

re: #122 Charles

In the Star Wars films, a wookie is an ape-like creature.

A buffoon is just a clown. Wookies are creatures, like a weird mixture of an ape & a dog. Nothing racist about calling someone a clown. Calling them a different species though, that's tricky ground. You're 100% right Charles.

143 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:49:34am

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

Nice touch. They were expecting an apology speech, and they didn't get one. He's good with hitting a disorienting note with different audiences. Puts a little spin on the ball.

He defended our national character. We want peace, but we're not afraid to stand up for what's right and kiss some ass when we have to.

Frankly- some Europeans could really stand to have someone tell them that from time to time, and I'm very pleased the President took this opportunity to do just that.

144 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:49:43am

re: #126 bratwurst

Michael Savage?

My son and I have special Father-Son time at the radio listening to Savage. He is just so much fun to listen to, and we generally choose one topic to discuss rationally in the context of spin, misquoting and misrepresentation.

145 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:49:51am

re: #122 Charles

In the Star Wars films, a wookie is an ape-like creature.

I always thought it was a Yorkshire Terrier on steroids.

146 SteveC  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:49:58am

re: #129 Rightwingconspirator

Exactly my point. The race is also used as an insulator against critics. Obama supporters easily overplay the racial angle as a "dogwhistle" accusation against nearly any criticism. Again he and his people work it both ways.

What do we call a false dogwhistle?

Caterwauling?

147 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:50:07am

re: #129 Rightwingconspirator

Exactly my point. The race is also used as an insulator against critics. Obama supporters easily overplay the racial angle as a "dogwhistle" accusation against nearly any criticism. Again he and his people work it both ways.

What do we call a false dogwhistle?

Do you really think that anyone is over playing the racist card? You're kidding, right?

148 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:50:14am

re: #122 Charles

In the Star Wars films, a wookie is an ape-like creature.


Oh. I thought it was a dog with a glandular problem. /

149 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:50:25am

I may not be a fan of the man, but I will give him credit where credit is due.

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:50:32am

re: #131 Cineaste

It's a big ranch and there's an awful lot of brush that needs clearing...

Plus, Laura has the native grasses project.

151 mich-again  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:50:32am

re: #122 Charles

In the Star Wars films, a wookie is an ape-like creature.

Kind of like Sasquatch but with the face of a bearded collie.

152 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:50:32am

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

What's a Wookie?

R2D2's sidekick, from Star Wars I. Also, his species.

153 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:50:47am

re: #123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We used to love Michelle Malkin around here. Damn that Beck and his Terrible Derangement Machine!

I was never a fan of malkin. I found her to be a fear monger from the beginning.

154 mbruce  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:51:13am

re: #120 Big Steve

Obama, his word is worthless currency.

155 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:51:15am

re: #132 Lawrence Schmerel

I imagine that some on the committee that awarded Obama the Nobel Peace Prize were a little disappointed to hear some of those words spoken in his acceptance speech.

I think that was intentional on the part of the speaker.

156 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:51:28am

re: #152 lostlakehiker

R2D2's sidekick, from Star Wars I. Also, his species.

Hans Solo's sidekick.

157 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:51:31am

re: #141 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I don't think I had ever seen it referenced to Obama, that's all. I don't hang around other blogs so I'm not as informed about all these different "games" that people play. And even when certain topics come up here, in regards to what people are saying at other blogs, I generally ignore the conversation.

Thanks for the info.

It's all over the right wing blogs and especially Hot Air. They think it's a clever way to puke out their inner racism, while stopping just short of making an "ape" comparison.

158 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:51:40am

re: #141 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I don't think I had ever seen it referenced to Obama, that's all. I don't hang around other blogs so I'm not as informed about all these different "games" that people play. And even when certain topics come up here, in regards to what people are saying at other blogs, I generally ignore the conversation.

Thanks for the info.

Usually it's pointed at Michelle Obama, not her husband. They fear her because she's tall, fit (muscular arms), and black.

159 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:51:51am

re: #142 Cineaste

A buffoon is just a clown. Wookies are creatures, like a weird mixture of an ape & a dog. Nothing racist about calling someone a clown. Calling them a different species though, that's tricky ground. You're 100% right Charles.

Urban dictionary say the word is a conjunction between two words...

"Bafoon- A cross between a baboon and a babbling idiot."

So it could have a "primate" meaning in the usage.

160 mich-again  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:51:59am

re: #152 lostlakehiker

R2D2's sidekick, from Star Wars I. Also, his species.

R2D2's sidekick was C3PO.

161 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:03am

re: #153 Sharmuta

I was never a fan of malkin. I found her to be a fear monger from the beginning.

I don't like them on the right or the left. that's the biggest reason I stopped watching cable news programs years ago.

162 FrogMarch  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:03am

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

Yea... but I don't know how that is a reference to Obama, that's all. People up thread was saying the word Wookie was a clue to the racist remark. I could see the "bafoon" word being a racist reference, I'm just missing something about Wookie.

I think some racist morons think that a wookie looks like Michelle Obama. ??? How they make that leap is beyond me.
I suppose in their attempts to one-up each other with rude, childish meanness - they call her something that certainly can be construed as racist. No matter my thoughts on the Obama's and their political stances, I happen to think that Michelle is a very beautiful woman. She's da bomb.

163 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:11am

To be bluntly honest, I think a lot of the 'Obama is a far left liberal' meme came from a lot of the talk show hosts out there who were looking through Obama's books and pulling out specific passages to try to create a case that Obama was a secret communist bent on destroying america. Some of the talkshow hosts have continued down that bent, others, Neal Boortz being the one that comes to mind first, have somewhat moderated their stance and doesn't seem to have the same venom that he did 9 months or a year ago. I also think the entire, 'left wing' is angry at Obama is overstated. There was a recent poll out (that I can't find right now) that had the number of Democrats angry at Obama very low. If possible, I think Obama will be pulling the Democrats a little to the right and well into the center, and if the Republicans continue to push themselves further and further over. Then their only hope is that the war in Afghanistan goes horribly wrong, that there are nuclear bombs going off in US cities or the economy crashes horribly.

Right now the Republicans are doing better in generic ballot testing and match ups because the economy is bad, and Obama and congress is now and will be the person/people responsible for the economy. If the economy improves, then the Republicans are going to be even further in the wilderness. Even if the economy doesn't recover, the Republicans are positioning themselves so far to the right that they're considering going after John Cornyn and Mitch McConnell because they're too liberal, even with ACU scores of 92 and 90.

DeMint, “The problem in the Republican Party is that the leadership has gone to the left,” he said. “I need some new Republicans.”

I'm not worried about Obama. For all his mistakes he might make and will make, I've been pretty sure before, and become convinced now, that he's the best person for our country at this time.

164 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:11am

re: #158 Cineaste

Usually it's pointed at Michelle Obama, not her husband. They fear her because she's tall, fit (muscular arms), and black.

And gorgeous.

165 avanti  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:24am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

Really, then how come the far-left feel betrayed. It's because he pandered to them or lied to them, one or the other.

I like this speech.

I accepted that he was pandering to left but suspected he'd govern more from the middle. As a matter of fact, it was one reason I voted for him. Now, if he could just marginalize Polisi and her like, I'd be happy as a clam. He can afford to piss off the left because they have no where to go.

166 Kragar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:32am

re: #152 lostlakehiker

R2D2's sidekick, from Star Wars I. Also, his species.

That was C3PO, another droid. Chewie was Han's Partner (originally meant to be a female and his love interest in earlier versions of the scripts).

/Sheesh, some people.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:40am

re: #152 lostlakehiker

R2D2's sidekick, from Star Wars I. Also, his species.

The Wookiee's name is Chewbacca. And he's Han Solo's partner, not R2D2's.

If you think I'm bad, you should meet my husband.

168 freetoken  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:46am

Sarah Palin double-down on "climategate", from her Facebook page:


Steven Hayward has a great article in The Weekly Standard on the Climategate scandal. Be sure to check it out.

The response to my op-ed by global warming alarmists has been interesting. Former Vice President Al Gore has called me a “denier” and informs us that climate change is “a principle in physics. It’s like gravity. It exists.”

Perhaps he’s right. Climate change is like gravity – a naturally occurring phenomenon that existed long before, and will exist long after, any governmental attempts to affect it.

However, he’s wrong in calling me a “denier.” As I noted in my op-ed above and in my original Facebook post on Climategate, I have never denied the existence of climate change. I just don’t think we can primarily blame man’s activities for the earth’s cyclical weather changes.

Former Vice President Gore also claimed today that the scientific community has worked on this issue for 20 years, and therefore it is settled science. Well, the Climategate scandal involves the leading experts in this field, and if Climategate is proof of the larger method used over the past 20 years, then Vice President Gore seriously needs to consider that their findings are flawed, falsified, or inconclusive.

Vice President Gore, the Climategate scandal exists. You might even say that it’s sort of like gravity: you simply can’t deny it.

- Sarah Palin

As I mentioned downstairs, at today's press conference with the Executive Secretary of the UNFCCC, Sarah Palin was mentioned as the archetypical American who is denying AGW.

Yes, she most certainly is.

169 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:53am

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Maybe. But its the user nic, so that is one step removed. If racism had a Richter scale, Hitler would be a ten, this would be a "2.1 on the scale" incident.

170 researchok  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:52:56am

re: #98 Sharmuta

I've read the whole thing, and frankly, I'm moved. That was a very American speech. We desire peace, but accept reality that war happens, and as a people we try to do the right thing, and stand up for people's right to live free. We make mistakes, but on the whole, America has been a force for good in this world, even when we have had to go to war.

Far from tossing America under the bus, the President made a case for why we are the greatest nation on Earth.

This comment is a keeper.

171 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:53:00am

re: #152 lostlakehiker

R2D2's sidekick, from Star Wars I. Also, his species.

No - that was C3PO. It has Han Solo's sidekick. Chewbaca.

172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:53:13am

re: #153 Sharmuta

I meant collectively. But, I cede your point.

173 baier  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:53:19am

I'm still luke warm on Obama and overall I disapprove. I think he blew it on Israel, big time. I also think the populist way he dealt the wall street bonuses was repugnant. Not to mention Gitmo. I can't blame him for the health care overhaul, which I'm not happy with, but the Republicans offered nothing constructive to the debate so of course the entire thing ended up partisan. I am willing to chalk much of it up to the fact that he had little real experience, was not in his control, and he is entitled to a few mistakes.
He did make a good call on Afghanistan and despite the campaign seems to be doing well with Iraq.
But yeah, he's a centrist.

174 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:53:20am

re: #154 mbruce

Obama, his word is worthless currency.

well in that case downdinged ya. He is the President of our country. He has earned the right to be listened to.

175 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:53:27am

re: #154 mbruce

Obama, his word is worthless currency.

Evidence?

176 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:53:43am

re: #144 imp_62

My son and I have special Father-Son time at the radio listening to Savage. He is just so much fun to listen to, and we generally choose one topic to discuss rationally in the context of spin, misquoting and misrepresentation.

He is absolutely insane but has more education than all of the other right wing radio voices put together.

177 Mark Pennington  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:54:06am

re: #111 Big Steve

how about Kos and his view of Bush?

I never read Kos or any of these sites until I discovered LGF recently. I heard about it though and agree it was probably over the top. I would guess that he hated Bush because of his policies? With Michelle, it is a whole lot more than just partisan. No other site except FR gives me the creeps like hers does.

178 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:54:31am

re: #170 researchok

Thanks.

179 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:54:43am

re: #168 freetoken

Sarah Palin double-down on "climategate", from her Facebook page:

As I mentioned downstairs, at today's press conference with the Executive Secretary of the UNFCCC, Sarah Palin was mentioned as the archetypical American who is denying AGW.

Yes, she most certainly is.

I have a very strong feeling that SP did not herself draft the response to Gore you quote. The style is not hers, and she uses big words like "cyclical". //

180 Soap_Man  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:55:12am

re: #163 bloodstar

Right now the Republicans are doing better in generic ballot testing and match ups because the economy is bad, and Obama and congress is now and will be the person/people responsible for the economy. If the economy improves, then the Republicans are going to be even further in the wilderness.

Well said. The Republican poling numbers are soft. They are getting votes by default because the economy still sucks. When the economy improves, I will bet my bottom dollar that the GOP will not be able to keep those voters.

181 bosforus  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:55:19am

Walter,
A google image search for michelle obama wookie will reveal it's a very prevalent and popular racist insult.

182 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:55:21am

Al Gore and Sarah Palin are having a proxy debate on Global Warming?!

The hot gas generated by these two alone could accelerate the melting of the polar ice caps 100 fold.

183 Gus  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:55:23am

re: #84 SixDegrees

Malkin is ripping him for being honest. Or some damn thing. She's almost completely incoherent these days, and it's hard to tell just what her point is sometimes.

She links to the speech and follows with two paragraphs preceded by, "All you need to know." This is followed by a hip-hop parody by Steven Crowder titled "I Gots'a Peace Prize." One can't help but notice the contraction of "got a" to "gots'a" which is playing on anti-urban prejudices.

It's a sophomoric screed to say the least.

184 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:55:35am

re: #159 Walter L. Newton

Urban dictionary say the word is a conjunction between two words...

"Bafoon- A cross between a baboon and a babbling idiot."

So it could have a "primate" meaning in the usage.

I wouldn't rely too heavily on Urban Dictionary. Here is the Webster's definition:

Main Entry: buf·foon
Pronunciation: (ˌ)bə-ˈfün
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French bouffon, from Old Italian buffone
Date: 1585

1 : a ludicrous figure : clown
2 : a gross and usually ill-educated or stupid person

— buf·foon·ish -ˈfü-nish adjective

185 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:55:36am

re: #164 recusancy

Let's not get carried away. Her sense of attire is awful, and ignores that she looks best in yellow dresses and thinks her waistline is somewhere it isn't.

186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:55:40am

re: #175 Cineaste

re: #154 mbruce

Obama, his word is worthless currency.


Evidence?

Well, he did promise to close Gitmo immediately.
/

187 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:56:18am

re: #176 bratwurst

He is absolutely insane but has more education than all of the other right wing radio voices put together.

All the sadder.

188 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:56:28am

re: #182 DaddyG

Al Gore and Sarah Palin are having a proxy debate on Global Warming?!

The hot gas generated by these two alone could accelerate the melting of the polar ice caps 100 fold.

Contemporary politics, described up in a single sentence

189 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:56:34am

re: #168 freetoken
Facebook : the unfiltered media that has yet to twist Sarah's words into something understandable.

190 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:56:36am

re: #177 beekiller

I never read Kos or any of these sites until I discovered LGF recently. I heard about it though and agree it was probably over the top. I would guess that he hated Bush because of his policies? With Michelle, it is a whole lot more than just partisan. No other site except FR gives me the creeps like hers does.

KOS's hatred of Bush was far more than just intellectual disagreement. When one routinely refers to GW Bush as a "fucktard" it is rather obviously not normal political discourse.

191 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:57:00am

re: #190 Big Steve

Thank you!

192 freetoken  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:57:20am

From the comments at Palin's Facebook page:

Susan Heath The whole thing is ridiculous. Sarah Palin is right. We cannnot know how much of any climate change is due to anything we do. To pass cap and tax is to shoot ourselves in the foot. I don't get how people can be so warped as to want to foist this on our country.
26 minutes ago

That's the Palinistas' essential philosophy - "we cannot know..." is a blatant rejection of the idea that knowledge can be accumulated.

193 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:57:30am

re: #177 beekiller

I never read Kos or any of these sites until I discovered LGF recently. I heard about it though and agree it was probably over the top. I would guess that he hated Bush because of his policies? With Michelle, it is a whole lot more than just partisan. No other site except FR gives me the creeps like hers does.


Nice try. There was very little rational disagreement with the Bush Derangement Syndrome. This does not excuse the Obama derangement syndrome however: With the far left and the far right pundits reacting to each other and claiming to balance the debate - they all get more shrill and extreme in an attempt to outdo each other.

194 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:57:30am

re: #152 lostlakehiker

R2D2's sidekick, from Star Wars I. Also, his species.

And, more famously, from the Star Wars Christmas Special, which featured Chewbacca and his family. And Bea Arthur!

195 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:57:34am

re: #185 lawhawk

Let's not get carried away. Her sense of attire is awful, and ignores that she looks best in yellow dresses and thinks her waistline is somewhere it isn't.

damn...had to laugh at that!

196 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:58:12am

re: #185 lawhawk

Let's not get carried away. Her sense of attire is awful, and ignores that she looks best in yellow dresses and thinks her waistline is somewhere it isn't.

I'm a warm blooded male. She's gorgeous.

197 Kragar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:58:17am

re: #194 Mad Al-Jaffee

And, more famously, from the Star Wars Christmas Special, which featured Chewbacca and his family. And Bea Arthur!

AND A HAPPY WOOKIE LIFE DAY TO YOU ALL!

198 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:58:26am

re: #163 bloodstar

Also - I think a lot of people got sidetracked on the overblown and hyperbolic (if not outright fear-mongering) "socialist" argument. At the most he is a conservative social democrat by European standards. Nowhere near a true socialist. Most of the European nations find his policies rather conservative (not that that matters to us, but it's important when framing the political continuum).

199 Kragar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:58:49am

re: #196 recusancy

I'm a warm blooded male. She's gorgeous.

So am I, but she does do anything for me in that department.

200 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:58:56am

re: #181 bosforus

I wouldn't rely too heavily on Urban Dictionary. Here is the Webster's definition:

Main Entry: buf·foon
Pronunciation: (ˌ)bə-ˈfün
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French bouffon, from Old Italian buffone
Date: 1585

1 : a ludicrous figure : clown
2 : a gross and usually ill-educated or stupid person

— buf·foon·ish -ˈfü-nish adjective

Are you missing the spelling? It's not spelt Buffoon, they are spelling it bafoon, which the urban dictionary describes as a conjunction of cfool and a baboon.

So there may be a racist element to using the word "bafoon" in describing Obama.

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:59:04am

re: #194 Mad Al-Jaffee

And, more famously, from the Star Wars Christmas Special, which featured Chewbacca and his family. And Bea Arthur!

That was so incredibly weird. No one says a word in English for about twenty minutes, and there are no subtitles.

202 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:59:04am

re: #179 imp_62

Does Sarah write anything she is given credit for? Doubtful. When she speaks and actually tries to quote herself she betrays the fact that she's got a team of people putting words into her mouth for her. It's sad, really.

203 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:59:07am

re: #185 lawhawk

Let's not get carried away. Her sense of attire is awful, and ignores that she looks best in yellow dresses and thinks her waistline is somewhere it isn't.

She's had a few hits along with some misses. Her dress for the State Dinner was beautiful (she looked great), but I'm really confused by the hoopla she's a fashion icon. I don't think she's any more or less trendy than my neighbor down the street, but I agree yellow is a good color for her. I liked the Inauguration coat, but not her gown that night.

204 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:59:11am

Wow, Michelle Malkin's post on this really is incoherent. And she concludes it with a video by an utter moron, titled "I Gots a Peace Prize".

She's not even trying to make sense any more -- just spewing hatred.

205 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:59:23am

re: #187 Decatur Deb

All the sadder.

Give Savage some credit... he is consistent and has far less a political and ideological agenda than a simple message: politicians lie, conspiracies are sometimes real, and no-one is to be trusted. He is a far right kook in his convictions, but at least he is not pandering - he is just way out there.

206 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:59:31am

re: #185 lawhawk

Don't quit your day job. I've been spitting distance from Mrs. Obama and she is stunning.

207 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:59:37am

re: #177 beekiller

I never read Kos or any of these sites until I discovered LGF recently. I heard about it though and agree it was probably over the top. I would guess that he hated Bush because of his policies? With Michelle, it is a whole lot more than just partisan. No other site except FR gives me the creeps like hers does.

Anyone know who's financing Hot Air these days? They burned through one sponsor, but found another sugar daddy a couple of years ago. The new infusion of cash lured Ed Morrisey - who used to be sane - over there, and his writing style immediately veered into cuckoo land. It's led me to believe that whoever is doing the financing is also controlling the content and tone to a large degree, since vitriolic hate spew seems to fit pretty much everything published there these day. Malkin was already headed down that road, but noticeably ramped up her bile at the same time.

I'd be interested in learning who the money is behind it all. Given their impact on the political scene, I'm tempted to believe it's George Soros, but perhaps someone here knows for sure.

208 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 10:59:41am

re: #190 Big Steve

KOS's hatred of Bush was far more than just intellectual disagreement. When one routinely refers to GW Bush as a "fucktard" it is rather obviously not normal political discourse.

Kos referred to him as a fucktard? Or are you counting commentors and diarists as being "Kos"?

209 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:00:06am

re: #202 darthstar

Does Sarah write anything she is given credit for? Doubtful. When she speaks and actually tries to quote herself she betrays the fact that she's got a team of people putting words into her mouth for her. It's sad, really.

Really, she is the ultimate sock puppet.

210 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:00:09am

re: #207 SixDegrees

Michelle Malkin is the owner of Hot Air.

211 avanti  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:00:39am

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

They were serious in their choice, and Obama was serious in his reply to the award. I don't like Obama, but I have no problem giving him credit where credit is due, and in this case, he deserves the praise. It was a very intelligent speech which didn't no deny the reality of the situation.

Walter, to you and others lizards. I can't tell you how nice it is to hear praise when deserved, along with valid criticism when Obama screws up. There are not many politician blogs that can do both with ease.
As you know, I bought the whole hope and change deal about all Americans working together. Although both Obama and me were naive in thinking it would be easy, some have given me hope that it is possible.

212 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:00:41am

re: #192 freetoken

From the comments at Palin's Facebook page:


That's the Palinistas' essential philosophy - "we cannot know..." is a blatant rejection of the idea that knowledge can be accumulated.


Which is quite understandable as a psychological projection of their own experiences with learning new things.

213 bosforus  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:00:45am

re: #200 Walter L. Newton

Are you missing the spelling? It's not spelt Buffoon, they are spelling it bafoon, which the urban dictionary describes as a conjunction of cfool and a baboon.

So there may be a racist element to using the word "bafoon" in describing Obama.

Cineaste, I believe the above quoted comment from Walter is for you.

214 charles_martel  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:00:47am

To me, the most intriguing point of the whole speech is his position on war. He was accepting a peace prize and talked of the necessity for war. I don't think it was as much a reference to Iraq and Afghanistan, as it was a warning about Iran. He was sending a clear message to Ahmadinijad with this speech. He knows that his diplomacy has failed and that the mullahs in Iran are laughing at him (declaring to build ten more uranium enrichment plants). There will be a war with Iran next year, and Obama is starting to lay the groundwork.

215 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:00:49am

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

That was so incredibly weird. No one says a word in English for about twenty minutes, and there are no subtitles.

It also features the first (animated) appearace of Boba Fett.

216 McSpiff  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:01:00am

re: #210 Charles

Michelle Malkin is the owner of Hot Air.

Thats just what the libruls want us to think!! Damn you Soros!


///

217 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:01:07am

re: #200 Walter L. Newton

Are you missing the spelling? It's not spelt Buffoon, they are spelling it bafoon, which the urban dictionary describes as a conjunction of cfool and a baboon.

So there may be a racist element to using the word "bafoon" in describing Obama.

My mistake then, sorry Walter. I assumed is was just a foolish spelling error by someone who couldn't type or spell. Damn me and my elitist education!

218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:01:13am

re: #194 Mad Al-Jaffee


And Bea Arthur!

We all joke about her, but she was quite the Singer/Dancer in her day.

Tony Award for Mame...

219 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:01:13am

re: #204 Charles

Wow, Michelle Malkin's post on this really is incoherent. And she concludes it with a video by an utter moron, titled "I Gots a Peace Prize".

She's not even trying to make sense any more -- just spewing hatred.

That title is certainly racist, in that she is trying to give it a "black" sound... same as Rush has been mocking all sorts of black people for years using a cod black accent.

That's about as racist as it comes.

220 SteveC  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:01:24am

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

That was so incredibly weird. No one says a word in English for about twenty minutes, and there are no subtitles.

So strange, it was seen once on network television and hasn't been seen since. Bootleg copies are like a trainwreck... so, so fascinating, but you just know it's gonna be a mess!

221 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:01:26am

re: #197 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

AND A HAPPY WOOKIE LIFE DAY TO YOU ALL!


Speak for yourself I've got a hairball. /

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:01:31am

re: #203 Sharmuta

She's had a few hits along with some misses. Her dress for the State Dinner was beautiful (she looked great), but I'm really confused by the hoopla she's a fashion icon. I don't think she's any more or less trendy than my neighbor down the street, but I agree yellow is a good color for her. I liked the Inauguration coat, but not her gown that night.

Made her look like a swan. And not in a good way.

It's so easy to dress a woman like that beautifully. She has the height, and a nice figure, and her coloring will go with almost anything.

She likes more frou-frou than I think a gal her height can strictly pull off.

Then again, I look at pictures of Jackie Kennedy, and I don't really get the hoopla. She's wearing clothes. BFD.

223 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:01:44am

re: #205 imp_62

Give Savage some credit... he is consistent and has far less a political and ideological agenda than a simple message: politicians lie, conspiracies are sometimes real, and no-one is to be trusted. He is a far right kook in his convictions, but at least he is not pandering - he is just way out there.

I once had the illusion that education makes you more rational, not just crazy with a good vocabulary.

224 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:01:57am

re: #210 Charles

Michelle Malkin is the owner of Hot Air.

She is also the Queen of hot air...
The King of hot air is my son after a quart of chocolate flavoured, fibre enriched protein shakes.

225 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:02:03am

re: #192 freetoken

From the comments at Palin's Facebook page:

That's the Palinistas' essential philosophy - "we cannot know..." is a blatant rejection of the idea that knowledge can be accumulated.

Palinesque Ontology in pursuit of the Presidency - hurling a hacked up Hayekian hierarchy.

226 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:02:07am

re: #211 avanti

Walter, to you and others lizards. I can't tell you how nice it is to hear praise when deserved, along with valid criticism when Obama screws up. There are not many politician blogs that can do both with ease.
As you know, I bought the whole hope and change deal about all Americans working together. Although both Obama and me were naive in thinking it would be easy, some have given me hope that it is possible.

Avanti... stop gushing... it's below you.

227 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:03:01am

re: #204 Charles

Wow, Michelle Malkin's post on this really is incoherent. And she concludes it with a video by an utter moron, titled "I Gots a Peace Prize".

She's not even trying to make sense any more -- just spewing hatred.

Same thing happened when Clinton stole fiscal restraint away from the GOP.

228 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:03:08am

re: #213 bosforus

Cineaste, I believe the above quoted comment from Walter is for you.

yep - caught that - thx

229 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:03:12am

re: #217 Cineaste

My mistake then, sorry Walter. I assumed is was just a foolish spelling error by someone who couldn't type or spell. Damn me and my elitist education!

And my mistake, I thought you we pushing back just becuase it was a comment by me. Damn me and my right-wing training.

230 avanti  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:03:50am

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Good speech. Touched on the fact that a lot of people deserve it more than he at this moment in time.

I agree.

I am not super "Pro Bush" but I would like to see him recognized globally for the things he did for the African Continent.

I did not support many Bush policies, but that one certainly deserves more praise. BTW, the fact that I did not agree with him does not mean I didn't think he loved his country with all his heart.

231 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:03:55am

re: #223 Decatur Deb

I once had the illusion that education makes you more rational, not just crazy with a good vocabulary.

There are entire Islamist governments made up of people with PhD's that make the opposite point.

232 freetoken  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:04:25am

Another winner from The Sarah's Facebook page:

Deborah Cinfio God is in control of the thermostat for our planet. The temperatures do vary and man may need to clean up his act as far as junking up the planet, but ultimately we have little control about our earth. We have to be careful that these "theories" do not become hard science just like the "theory of evolution" is taught as hard science. WE need to get back to what we, in the US can control. "It's the economy, stupid". Nothing should be done to further destroy our economy and job situation at this point. What good is "climate control" if we are starving to death because we can't find a job?
about an hour ago

... which immediately followed:

Jesse Kamiki Foglesong Mankind is so in love with himself to think that we can even make the slightest difference in changing the earth's climate ... to think of us as even rising to the level of a Life Giver, The Creator -- is totally ridiculous and arrogant. Lucifer tried it, and he was banished to this planet. We are doing the same, in thinking that we can influence the natural cycles of the Solar system, implemented by "The Watchmaker" ... All that is ask of us is to be responsible human beings in respecting the natural world, and to acknowledge that The Creator is 'In Charge" ... not us. Utilize the many "gifts" that has been "provided" for us: natural gas, oil, and so much more. Be human beings: prosper and enjoy life!
about an hour ago

... which was preceded by...

Kathy Leicester People, READ legitimate scientists, who know enough to explain the fallacy to the theory that humans have anything other than a microscopic impact on the earth's climate patterns. "Greenhouse Effect?" A Hoax.

It is a lie--none of it is even close to being true. The polar bears are fine, the arctic ice is fine-- And VP Gore is the biggest whopping liar of all time.

Lord Monckton and others have science and explanation available. Please, get smart!
about an hour ago

Well, that just about settles it then...

233 mwalke5  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:04:28am

Yes, there is no difference between what one says in speeches and what one actually does policywise. I refuse to believe that Obama is a "centrist" at heart because of (a) his votes while in the Senate (b) his campaign promises (c) his record thus far in office (efforts at wealth redistribution through demonizing wall street (d) the efforts to white wash the war on terror with politically correct nonsense (e) the decision to try 9/11 terrorists as common criminals on American soil.

Its going to take alot more to convince me than a simple speech in Norway wherein he had to justify receiving the Nobel Peace prize a week after announcing a major military offensive.

234 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:04:39am

re: #211 avanti

Walter, to you and others lizards. I can't tell you how nice it is to hear praise when deserved, along with valid criticism when Obama screws up. There are not many politician blogs that can do both with ease.
As you know, I bought the whole hope and change deal about all Americans working together. Although both Obama and me were naive in thinking it would be easy, some have given me hope that it is possible.


I think there was a lot of naivety about Obama with his lack of experience in Executive level politics. I give him credit - He is growing quickly. I don't think this Nobel speech would have been one he could have delivered earler in his carreer with the same amount of perspective. Some of his newfound wisdom no doubt purchased by some early mistakes on the international etiquitte scene. The rest is probably a result of having to be in charge as opposed to being one of the many critics who have never held the responsibility he now holds.

235 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:04:42am

re: #204 Charles

Wow, Michelle Malkin's post on this really is incoherent. And she concludes it with a video by an utter moron, titled "I Gots a Peace Prize".

She's not even trying to make sense any more -- just spewing hatred.

Her posts would be a lot clearer and more concise if she'd just pull out the N-word and get it over with.

236 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:05:17am

re: #220 SteveC

So strange, it was seen once on network television and hasn't been seen since. Bootleg copies are like a trainwreck... so, so fascinating, but you just know it's gonna be a mess!

For those that have never seen it, here is an excerpt: (shudder)

237 Mark Pennington  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:05:26am

re: #193 DaddyG

Nice try. There was very little rational disagreement with the Bush Derangement Syndrome. This does not excuse the Obama derangement syndrome however: With the far left and the far right pundits reacting to each other and claiming to balance the debate - they all get more shrill and extreme in an attempt to outdo each other.

Nice try? I am not excusing anyone for their BDS. I was not part of that crowd nor did I witness it the way most of you guys did since I am a newbie to the blogosphere. I think the difference is...people were not afraid of Bush nor did they hate him for the color of his skin.

238 Edward Halper  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:05:51am

From what I have seen of this speech (not all of it yet), George W. Bush could have given it.

What a wonderful speech for the Nobel committee. My surmise is that they gave him the prize either anticipating that he would pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan or, more likely, aiming to goad him into pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

239 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:05:52am

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

Made her look like a swan. And not in a good way.

It's so easy to dress a woman like that beautifully. She has the height, and a nice figure, and her coloring will go with almost anything.

She likes more frou-frou than I think a gal her height can strictly pull off.

Then again, I look at pictures of Jackie Kennedy, and I don't really get the hoopla. She's wearing clothes. BFD.

Like I said- she looked great at the State Dinner.

240 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:05:57am

re: #208 recusancy

Kos referred to him as a fucktard? Or are you counting commentors and diarists as being "Kos"?

Whether KOS himself of his chosen diarists, it is his site was a constant drumbeat. Just google DailyKOS, Bush, fucktard and count the hits.

241 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:06:04am

re: #210 Charles

Michelle Malkin is the owner of Hot Air.

Yes, but I thought the funding was coming from somewhere else, and that she had already burned through at least one financial backer.

Perhaps not. I'm not having much luck turning up any information on it.

242 freetoken  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:06:21am

re: #225 karmic_inquisitor

Yeah... like, reading Palin's Facebook page is like attending an Epistemology seminar...

243 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:06:47am

re: #229 Walter L. Newton

And my mistake, I thought you we pushing back just becuase it was a comment by me. Damn me and my right-wing training.

I do confess to like winding you up Walter but I promise I was not here. I'm genuinely happy when we can agree on things! I felt bad about that thread a couple days ago because I realized afterwards we were going back and forth over something silly. Apologies for that as well buddy.

244 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:08:10am

re: #235 SixDegrees

Her posts would be a lot clearer and more concise if she'd just pull out the N-word and get it over with.

Malkin is the anti-immigration daughter of immigrants. I don't think she has a clue what she really believes. She just spews crap because Fox pays her to be their racist eye-candy on their shows. If she wasn't physically attractive, she'd be doing something else entirely, as they'd never let her in front of a camera.

245 limewash  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:08:27am

re: #118 recusancy

and #soapman

All depends on how you rate or grade the votes he made, etc.

Salon has a good article on the National Journal's 2008 Ranking0
[Link: www.salon.com...]

Same to Media matters
[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Same to Huffingtonpost
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

246 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:08:30am

re: #243 Cineaste

I do confess to like winding you up Walter but I promise I was not here. I'm genuinely happy when we can agree on things! I felt bad about that thread a couple days ago because I realized afterwards we were going back and forth over something silly. Apologies for that as well buddy.

Ok, you're getting maudlin... stop it :)

247 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:08:33am

Obama's acceptance speech was nothing short of magnificent...music to the ears of the centre right.

Around the time of Obama's nomination the conventional wisdom was that he was a chameleon, a blank page, who was in a position to do or say anything to anyone at any time in order to advance his own popularity. It was remarked at that time that before Obama was through he could even end up somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun. Others noted that he could just as easily end up somewhere to the left of Trotsky.

As Obama now continues to lurch steadily to the right in accordance with the realities of his Office and in order to co-opt the right wingers, what will become of his leftist base? Recent polls indicate that his base is eroding and is certainly not a bunch of happy campers.

248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:08:34am

re: #236 Cineaste

Holy Cow!

249 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:09:11am

re: #246 Walter L. Newton

Ok, you're getting maudlin... stop it :)

Well it doesn't change the fact that you're a crazy old coot living in a shack in the woods...

///

250 Cineaste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:10:27am

re: #248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Holy Cow!

For those truly brave enough. Here's the entire Star Wars christmas special. All 117 glorious minutes of it...

251 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:10:27am

re: #249 Cineaste

Well it doesn't change the fact that you're a crazy old coot living in a shack in the woods...

///

With GUNS!

252 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:10:32am

re: #247 Spare O'Lake

Have any of those polls handy?

253 Mark Pennington  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:10:44am

re: #204 Charles

Wow, Michelle Malkin's post on this really is incoherent. And she concludes it with a video by an utter moron, titled "I Gots a Peace Prize".

She's not even trying to make sense any more -- just spewing hatred.

Warning: Don't scroll to the bottom of her site...you'll see Pennywise the Clown.
.

.

.

"We All Float down Here"

254 rurality  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:11:02am

I think if Obama spun straw into gold and gave it away to the survivalists, he'd still be hated. Geez. Where was a fraction of this analysis, skepticism, knowing better during previous terms--Reagan deficits anyone? Being ceaselessly dismissive is irrational and closeminded. I am more left than right, but I not deaf. I think Obama has been consistent in what he's said. Lots of the left wished and hoped and fantasized more than listened. There are realities in a war that can't be guided by campaign rhetoric that is only partially informed. And campaign rhetoric cannot effect legislation. 60 was always a false number because democrats refuse to march in a line, they dont have that discipline and don't have one perspective and "winning" is more subjective than it seems to be for the other side of the isle. Downding away...

255 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:11:46am

re: #241 SixDegrees

Well, Malkin recently moved to Colorado, right near the Dobson compound, and now uses their television facilities to appear on Fox News. That might be a clue.

256 ignoranceisfatal  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:11:49am

re: #247 Spare O'Lake

I disagree with this reading. If nothing else, I think Obama's history has shown that he is, if nothing else, a pragmatist. It was entirely predictable that he would govern from center.

257 nordink  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:11:55am

I know that there's already a discussion or two in progress on this thread, but I just want to state for the record that . . . (1) I'm no fan of President Obama, (2) I think his policies will be pretty disastrous for the American economy, (3) I do believe, however, that he is well-intentioned, for whatever that is worth, (4) This is, as Charles says, a *great* speech. I'm a bit surprised -- and very impressed, (5) People who find parts of the speech to criticize are working triple golden overtime in that pursuit and come to the table with hermetically closed minds, (6) Racists who criticize the President (Michelle Wookiebama? Really? Isn't this supposed to be 20-freakin'-09?) communicate no point whatsoever. They only reveal themselves to be vile and ignoramuses. Thanks for letting me put my two (or six) cents here.

258 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:11:56am

re: #244 darthstar

Malkin is the anti-immigration daughter of immigrants. I don't think she has a clue what she really believes. She just spews crap because Fox pays her to be their racist eye-candy on their shows. If she wasn't physically attractive, she'd be doing something else entirely, as they'd never let her in front of a camera.

Actually, her presence on the web and in print long predate her appearances on Fox. They went to her, not vice versa.

Why, I don't know. She totally sucks on camera, and is obviously never going to develop the skills required to make that venue work.

259 mwalke5  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:13:08am

re: #254 rurality

I think Obama has been consistent in what he's said.

Like closing Gitmo?

260 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:13:36am

re: #255 Charles

Well, Malkin recently moved to Colorado, right near the Dobson compound, and now uses their television facilities to appear on Fox News. That might be a clue.

OK, thanks. I'll see if I can find out any more.

261 Nadnerb  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:13:37am

This is BY FAR the best, most substantive speech he has given. He explicitly states that there is evil in the world and that we must stand up to it. This is what we need to hear. Hopefully he will live up to it.

262 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:13:43am

re: #255 Charles

Well, Malkin recently moved to Colorado, right near the Dobson compound, and now uses their television facilities to appear on Fox News. That might be a clue.

I didn't know she was in my neck of the woods. Interesting.

263 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:14:12am

re: #237 beekiller

Nice try? I am not excusing anyone for their BDS. I was not part of that crowd nor did I witness it the way most of you guys did since I am a newbie to the blogosphere. I think the difference is...people were not afraid of Bush nor did they hate him for the color of his skin.


There was a lot of irrational fear and hatred of Bush. Much of the insults levelled at him made fun of his background as a white man, the son of a political family and a Texan. I think there is also a lot of irrational fear and hatred of Obama that has nothing to do with his race. In fact while admitting there are racists targeting Obama for the color of his skin I suspect there are far more who would have irrational fears and criticism even if Obama were lilly white.

264 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:14:47am

re: #240 Big Steve

Whether KOS himself of his chosen diarists, it is his site was a constant drumbeat. Just google DailyKOS, Bush, fucktard and count the hits.

I called President Bush a fucktard several times between 2001 and 2008. I was vehemently opposed to his policies (tax cuts, environmental rollbacks, etc.), his disregard for the Geneva Convention(see Torture, extreme rendition, etc.), his complete lack of decorum in dealing with foreign leaders (talking with his mouth full, calling Tony Blair over to him by shouting "Hey, Blair!" across the room, groping Angela Merkel, calling Putin "Pooty", etc.)...so yeah, when he did something like that, I openly called him a fucktard.

That said, I'm quite happy with the way he's handling his post-Presidency. I never expected him to be an advocate for Habitat for Humanity, as Carter has, or join Bill Clinton and his father in soliciting international donations for disaster relief. He's happy watching football at home, and I'm okay with that...it's his life, I'll let him live it. And I no longer call him a fucktard.

265 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:15:10am

re: #263 DaddyG

Bush wasn't a Texan. He's from New England.

266 mwalke5  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:15:35am

re: #261 Nadnerb

This is BY FAR the best, most substantive speech he has given. He explicitly states that there is evil in the world and that we must stand up to it. This is what we need to hear. Hopefully he will live up to it.

I would whole heartedly believe that if not for the ridiculous, counterproductive nonsense that he has allowed to fester in the Dept of Homeland Security. If there is evil, if we are at war with that evil, then say so officially. He absolutely took a great step in this speech, but I still view it as more of a political necessity that he had to do to justify the Peace Prize in the midst of an offensive.

267 ignoranceisfatal  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:15:38am

re: #263 DaddyG

There was a lot of irrational fear and hatred of Bush. Much of the insults levelled at him made fun of his background as a white man, the son of a political family and a Texan.

Really? I think most of the insults were aimed as his perceived lack of intelligence.

268 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:16:44am

re: #240 Big Steve

Whether KOS himself of his chosen diarists, it is his site was a constant drumbeat. Just google DailyKOS, Bush, fucktard and count the hits.

I think you might be exaggerating. google only came up with 1750//

269 mwalke5  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:18:28am

re: #267 ignoranceisfatal

Really? I think most of the insults were aimed as his perceived lack of intelligence.

Just so we're on the same page. Case in point

270 Diamond Bullet  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:19:29am

I'm on record as generally skeptical about President Obama, but I freely admit that was a great speech. I hope he actually believes it.

An interesting undercurrent is the intended audience. Many assume it is the domestic U.S., but I think he is trying to keep the Europeans from handcuffing him by holding him to a "Nobel Peace Prize Winner" standard for the duration of his Presidency. Implications from the Committee at the time of the award was that it was goal-oriented as much as a general thumbs up. It was refreshing to see him push back and take a rationalist's approach to many of the challenges he faces. Also politically smart, since with at least some of the problems the only way out is through.

271 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:19:52am

I've never been able to really work out what part of G W Bush was a folksy Texan facade for public consumption, possibly someone in way over his head and being used as a figurehead. And what part might actually have been a very smooth operator who knew exactly what he was doing. (As a comparison, was anyone ever saying that LBJ was some sort of drooling Texas idiot?)

Given that he's actually of New England stock and Yale educated there had to be something going on.

272 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:19:55am

re: #247 Spare O'Lake

Those that live in swing states will hang with him. They saw what happened in 2000 when they gave their vote to Nader, and the SCOTUS us so thin, they can not afford a protest vote. Those that live in reliably blue states will do the same thing they did in '08 vote Nader or McKinney or whoever is running on the stick-your-head-in-the-sand-and-hope-it-all-goes-away platform.

The real test will be how many of the left of center folks will be energized again to canvass and get out the vote and whether or not Obama give us something to use when knocking at doors besides the potential of 11% unemployment, bank bailouts and a failed attempt at universal health care and addressing AGW in real ways.

Of course we're hoping the GOP puts up Palin, Santorum or some other whack job and makes it easy.

273 Mark Pennington  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:20:18am

re: #263 DaddyG

There was a lot of irrational fear and hatred of Bush. Much of the insults levelled at him made fun of his background as a white man, the son of a political family and a Texan. I think there is also a lot of irrational fear and hatred of Obama that has nothing to do with his race. In fact while admitting there are racists targeting Obama for the color of his skin I suspect there are far more who would have irrational fears and criticism even if Obama were lilly white.

I agree. I know many people who dislike him for his policies and aren't racist.
Sadly, those aren't the people representing the right and people like Michelle, Beck and Limbaugh are.

274 DaddyG  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:21:07am

re: #265 Obdicut

Bush wasn't a Texan. He's from New England.

I know that. Yet his critics called him a cowboy and drew charactures of him in a 10 gallon hat.. Go figure?

That supports my point that critics will always find something irrational or just plain stupid to latch onto that has nothing to do with reality. In Obamas case the racist jibes are for those too stupid lazy to come up with more creative substantive critiques.

275 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:21:34am

time for a meeting...gotta run.

276 Cato the Elder  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:21:59am

re: #47 DaddyG

I think you give the poster waaay to much credit in terms of literacy and spelling acumen. But that begs the question; which came first racism or stupidity?

Upding for the question; downding for misusing the phrase "to beg the question".

277 shutdown  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:23:37am

re: #276 Cato the Elder

Upding for the question; downding for misusing the phrase "to beg the question".

I spend way to much time explaining the meaning of the phrase to people. On the plus side, it keeps people away from me at parties.

278 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:24:04am

re: #252 Obdicut

Have any of those polls handy?

[Link: www.politico.com...]

279 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:25:34am
280 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:25:46am

re: #278 Spare O'Lake

That's a general poll; can you show his base slipping?

281 LotharBot  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:26:33am

He's still a commie when it comes to domestic policy. The fact that he's also remarkably hawkish doesn't make him "centerist" any more than Bush's abandonment of small government made him "centerist".

That said, looks like a fabulous speech, with everything I could hope for. A defense of American might underwriting peace, mentions of jailed dissidents, and a humble attitude regarding his own accomplishments. Obama's foreign and military policy has been excellent, and this speech may be the most impressive of the bunch.

282 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:27:10am

re: #281 LotharBot

Can you define 'commie', please?

283 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:27:14am

re: #280 Obdicut

That's a general poll; can you show his base slipping?

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

284 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:27:59am

re: #281 LotharBot

Obama's a commie???
Really?

285 AZDave  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:28:45am
If you still refuse to believe that Barack Obama has become a truly centrist President, read his Nobel Prize acceptance speech.

Unfortunately, one speech doesn't make it so.

286 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:29:00am

re: #254 rurality

I think if Obama spun straw into gold and gave it away to the survivalists, he'd still be hated.

He would crash the market if he could spin straw into gold. Glen Beck would lose untold sums of wealth!

287 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:29:14am

re: #283 recusancy

His approval among Democrats is at 80%. That doesn't seem like a base slipping away.

What do you mean by base?

288 The Optimist  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:31:48am

re: #58 DaddyG

So optimistic. So innocent. So sweet. /

DaddyG,
You are right. I try to be diplomatic in my comments but in this case I should have said " A blue ribbon at the county fair pie baking contest means more than any future Nobel prize"

289 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:32:59am

re: #287 Obdicut

His approval among Democrats is at 80%. That doesn't seem like a base slipping away.

What do you mean by base?

71% - Can he not have pressure from the left? They aren't leaving and going to John McCain or anything. They just aren't happy with his centrism and constant quest for bipartisanship (no matter how many times they spit in his face).

290 Nadnerb  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:34:00am

re: #266 mwalke5

I just have to be honest in my opinion here. As angry as I am about this healthcare approach we're taking, as detrimental I think it is for our country, as loyal opposition I remain. I do not fear as much his intentions (in terms of national security) as I once did. The KSM thing is deplorable, but I don't fear the reasons for it I once did.

291 rurality  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:34:21am

re: #259 mwalke5

Our noble legislators were too scared to have bad guys in their back yards, which sorta seemed like being apologists for American security. And again, campaign rhetoric is no match for logistical reality. willful ignorance and political road blocking games.
Got to make !@#$% cookies.

292 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:34:44am

re: #280 Obdicut

That's a general poll; can you show his base slipping?

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

293 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:35:34am

re: #289 recusancy

Not to go all tu quoque, but Bush's attempts at bi-partisanship where spit upon as well. I think most of the partisanship in DC comes from Congress, and it doesn't matter who is in the White House- the other side in Congress will want to be jerks.

294 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:36:29am

re: #289 recusancy

I guess it depends on where you define Obama's base. I think his base is in relatively centrist types, not the folks on the farther edge of the party in one way or another.

re: #292 Spare O'Lake

Again, what do you mean by his base? You think his base is 'whites'?

295 LotharBot  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:38:29am

"Commie": big-government, redistributionist, tax the rich, government intervention in businesses (GM takeover), etc. Admittedly, it's an exaggeration meant to make the point: being "right" on one issue and "left" on another doesn't make you center. It just makes you right on one issue and left on another. Just like Bush...

Reminds me of a joke:
Three statisticians go quail hunting. The first fires a shot a foot below his target. The second fires a shot a foot above. The third drops his rifle and declares "we got him!"

296 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:38:36am

re: #294 Obdicut

I guess it depends on where you define Obama's base. I think his base is in relatively centrist types, not the folks on the farther edge of the party in one way or another.

re: #292 Spare O'Lake

Again, what do you mean by his base? You think his base is 'whites'?

Don't be dense. His non-white support has also slipped 10%.

297 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:40:31am

re: #295 LotharBot

It's a really stupid 'exaggeration', that does absolutely nothing to help rational discourse. Communist has an actual meaning. Obama is not communist, and nothing he has done is in the least bit communist.

re: #296 Spare O'Lake

Don't be dense. His non-white support has also slipped 10%.

Okay. Please, can you tell me what you mean by his base so I have a clue what you're talking about?

298 Slap  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:40:31am

re: #289 recusancy

I've often wondered why, in the face of so many examples over the past few decades, some people remain intent on believing that the guy they elected, or the one they lobbied to be nominated to the bench, won't undergo substantial changes once the weight of the office falls on their shoulders. Hell, even when folks are elected/appointed with whom I have severe issues, I remind myself to wait and see -- the enormous responsibility they bear can have the most unpredictable effects.

299 avanti  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:41:58am

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

Avanti... stop gushing... it's below you.

Screw you Walter ! Better ? :)

300 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:42:40am

re: #293 Sharmuta

Not to go all tu quoque, but Bush's attempts at bi-partisanship where spit upon as well. I think most of the partisanship in DC comes from Congress, and it doesn't matter who is in the White House- the other side in Congress will want to be jerks.

He at least got some dems. Even the tax cuts for the rich (which did more to hurt the deficit then any health bill will) got 12 dems senators to vote for and they still didn't get to 60 votes. So he obviously didn't have to get 60 votes for everything like Obama does now.

301 avanti  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:45:29am

re: #234 DaddyG

I think there was a lot of naivety about Obama with his lack of experience in Executive level politics. I give him credit - He is growing quickly. I don't think this Nobel speech would have been one he could have delivered earler in his carreer with the same amount of perspective. Some of his newfound wisdom no doubt purchased by some early mistakes on the international etiquitte scene. The rest is probably a result of having to be in charge as opposed to being one of the many critics who have never held the responsibility he now holds.

Part of his naivety was thinking that if he talked nice to the bad guys, offering rational idea's, that they would be rational and he's learning that is not so.

302 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:46:07am

re: #297 Obdicut

It's a really stupid 'exaggeration', that does absolutely nothing to help rational discourse. Communist has an actual meaning. Obama is not communist, and nothing he has done is in the least bit communist.

re: #296 Spare O'Lake


Okay. Please, can you tell me what you mean by his base so I have a clue what you're talking about?

His support among whites has slipped 20% and among non-whites 10%, according to this Gallup poll. Also, his overall support has slipped to 45% from 70%.
I'm no statistician, but to me these numbers show that his support has slipped, at least somewhat, across the board.
That's about all I can say.

303 avanti  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:47:37am

re: #279 Varek Raith

To beg the question.

Why does no one mention that was a one day outer and that it was up to 50% the next day ?

304 recusancy  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:48:04am

re: #302 Spare O'Lake

His support among whites has slipped 20% and among non-whites 10%, according to this Gallup poll. Also, his overall support has slipped to 45% from 70%.
I'm no statistician, but to me these numbers show that his support has slipped, at least somewhat, across the board.
That's about all I can say.

His support is basically the same as Reagan's was.

305 gator80  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:49:49am

"...a truly centrist President..." If you are referring to the conduct of the war you have a strong case. Foreign policy in general, not quite so strong. Domestic affairs, including the economy: do you believe he is centrist there, too?

"...deranged, ugly racism..." On what grounds do you draw that conclusion? I am not expressing agreement with the post of 'Wookiebama.' But does that fact that one disagrees with it mean it is 'deranged?' And what is the case for claiming racism?

306 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:55:17am

re: #271 oaktree

I've never been able to really work out what part of G W Bush was a folksy Texan facade for public consumption, possibly someone in way over his head and being used as a figurehead. And what part might actually have been a very smooth operator who knew exactly what he was doing. (As a comparison, was anyone ever saying that LBJ was some sort of drooling Texas idiot?)

Given that he's actually of New England stock and Yale educated there had to be something going on.

Try this: Bush I moved to Texas. W grew up in Texas. He spent more time there than at Yale and he's a Texan. He likes being a Texan. He really truly is a Texan. Bush is as much a Texan as Barry Goldwater was an Arizonian. It's no facade.

307 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:55:37am

re: #305 gator80

Simple. The name of the commenter, chief.

308 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:57:26am

re: #305 gator80

This makes a nice matched set with your other comment:

732 gator809/20/2009 4:30:03 pm PDT * -4

Charles,
Not having read the other 700+ comments, I will simply point out that to me it seems obvious that Limbaugh is being sarcastic. You can question whether or not it is effective or even in good taste but I don't think you can legitimately accuse him of calling for segregated busses.

309 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:57:37am

re: #304 recusancy

His support is basically the same as Reagan's was.

I know, I saw that one yesterday. It means at least that Dems agree that Obama's support has slipped, and that they are now scrambling for some of that good old hopenchange.

310 McSpiff  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 11:57:46am

re: #306 lostlakehiker

Try this: Bush I moved to Texas. W grew up in Texas. He spent more time there than at Yale and he's a Texan. He likes being a Texan. He really truly is a Texan. Bush is as much a Texan as Barry Goldwater was an Arizonian. It's no facade.

Apparently his father also likes to get out and fish, that type of thing. Of everyone I know who have meet the Bushes, and theres a few people, I've never heard a bad thing about them.

311 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:00:24pm

re: #301 avanti

Part of his naivety was thinking that if he talked nice to the bad guys, offering rational idea's, that they would be rational and he's learning that is not so.

That's one lesson he can't learn too soon...where did he get such an idiotic notion?

312 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:02:10pm

re: #302 Spare O'Lake

Is there any particular reason you don't want to explain what you mean by his base?

313 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:09:13pm

re: #312 Obdicut

Is there any particular reason you don't want to explain what you mean by his base?

1. Because I am not under cross-examination here.
2. Your question is a rhetorical one.
Get it?

314 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:11:02pm

re: #312 Obdicut

Is there any particular reason you don't want to explain what you mean by his base?

You're trolling for something specific, I'm just not sure what. It seems you have a point to make that you're dying to get out.

His numbers have plummeted, especially amongst independents. Are you trying to make the argument that his poll numbers are down because of defections by the opposition party? His base=the people who voted for him.

315 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:13:46pm

re: #313 Spare O'Lake

My question is not at all a rehtorical one. It's a real one. You said that his support is slipping from his base, and I'm honestly interested in what you believe his base is. As I said, I think his base is centrists-- liberal centrists, to be sure, but centrists.

re: #314 RogueOne

You're trolling for something specific, I'm just not sure what. It seems you have a point to make that you're dying to get out.

His numbers have plummeted, especially amongst independents. Are you trying to make the argument that his poll numbers are down because of defections by the opposition party? His base=the people who voted for him.

I'm sorry, but the 'base' is not normally simply everyone who votes for you. It's normally a smaller subset, and I'm interested in what other people perceive as his 'base'.

Accusing me of trolling when asking what someone means by something is not, I feel, appropriate.

316 Blueheron  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:18:36pm

"Somewhere today, in the here and now, a soldier sees he’s outgunned but stands firm to keep the peace. Somewhere today, in this world, a young protestor awaits the brutality of her government, but has the courage to march on. Somewhere today, a mother facing punishing poverty still takes the time to teach her child, who believes that a cruel world still has a place for his dreams.
Let us live by their example. "

Barak Obama became my President today.

317 RogueOne  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:18:58pm

re: #315 Obdicut

I meant trolling as in fishing. It seemed to me you had something specific you were looking for, I was just curious as to what it was. OTOH, I can see how you mistook it.
[Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]

To a politician, those who vote for you ARE your base otherwise it's hard to get re-elected which is the sole purpose of being a politician.

318 davesax  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:19:17pm

We're about to enter a more violent time.

And noone knows that better than Obama.

319 darthstar  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:19:45pm

re: #301 avanti

Part of his naivety was thinking that if he talked nice to the bad guys, offering rational idea's, that they would be rational and he's learning that is not so.

You're referring to the Republicans who traveled with the President on Air Force 1, right? Inhofe, who is holding a counter-rally while he's in Copenhagen on President Obama's (and our) dime.

320 Blueheron  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:20:32pm

re: #3 recusancy

He hasn't changed. This is how he's always been. He's always been a centrist.

He became my President today.
As an American conservative I am very proud of him.

321 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:21:26pm

re: #317 RogueOne

Okay. Normally the base means those who are strong supporters of the party or ideology, who can be counted on to give support and, most importantly money. So when people said that Palin energized the base, it meant that she prompted those who are definitely Republican, not in any danger of voting for Obama, to donate money to the GOP and to vote for McCain instead of staying home.

In all of the contexts I've heard it used in, anyway.

322 Blueheron  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:22:17pm

re: #7 Charles

During the campaign, however, he made a lot of statements that pandered politically to the far left -- that's why they feel so betrayed.

Politicians always do that Charles. I am very pleased to see by his words he is the President of us all.

323 Norvegicus  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:25:00pm

This Norwegian thought it was a great speech, for what it's worth.

He's well liked over here, to be sure, the fringes notwithstanding. I wish him the best. There seemed to be a huge question mark hovering over the nation when the Nobel was announced, though.

OT: I registered during the last opening, to be honest. Didn't post anything then, was just glad to be able to get an account. As I'm in Norway the door usually opens in the middle of the night where I am. Been lurking on and off (mostly on) since 2006. I basically check LGF to read and learn (and I've learned a lot). Thank you for a great blog.

324 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:31:07pm

re: #323 Norvegicus

I'm new here myself, but welcome.

Now, can you explain why the Swedes are so damn boring?

325 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:31:51pm

re: #323 Norvegicus

Welcome, hatchling.

326 davesax  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:35:09pm

No offense meant to Charles or anyone here, but I really don't care about Obama's speeches anymore. I just want to see the economy improve, for Iran to be stopped, and for America to be safe.

If Obama is able to accomplish these things, he'll go down in history as a great president.

If not, he won't.

I hope he's successful and wish him the strength and wisdom.

327 Norvegicus  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:49:40pm

re: #324 Obdicut

haha, thanks. They're great once you get to know them. You just have to be patient ;)

328 sagehen  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:52:02pm

re: #239 Sharmuta

Like I said- she looked great at the State Dinner.


She did indeed.

And I hope the AP prescribed diversity classes for their foolish writer who described that dress as "flesh-colored".

329 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:56:07pm

re: #327 Norvegicus

Oh, I like them a lot-- I loved Stockholm. I was just joshing.

330 Blueheron  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 12:59:56pm

re: #210 Charles

Michelle Malkin is the owner of Hot Air.

That is a surprise.

331 eric  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:03:02pm

And yet I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. In part, this is because I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage
I don't think Obama deserves the prize and generally do not like the man, however, I think this quote deserves kudos. Well written and addresses all his critics. This was well done.

332 Mickey Blumental  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:10:29pm

Not a bad speech, but my problem is that he allows himself to label America's enemy "evil" and acknowledges that war is necessary when negotiation is impossible - yet, he refuses to acknowledge that Israel is EXACTLY in the same situation with Hamas and Hizbola. Israel is expected to sit down and negotiate with the ones who want them dead.

How do you negotiate that? Israel agrees to only half-die?

333 Fenris  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:11:40pm

It's good to know he's at least as peaceful as Yassir Arafat.

334 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:15:56pm

re: #317 RogueOne

I meant trolling as in fishing. It seemed to me you had something specific you were looking for, I was just curious as to what it was. OTOH, I can see how you mistook it.
[Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]

To a politician, those who vote for you ARE your base otherwise it's hard to get re-elected which is the sole purpose of being a politician.

Swing voters are not efinition of a political base as I understand it. My centrist friends who didn't like Kerry and voted for Bush because they thought he was marginally less awful on national security, they're not Bush's base. My Republican uncle who thought Bush was a "dipshit" and grumbled and voted for Kerry, he's not Kerry's base.

Obama's base, as I see it, are a combination of young activist liberals (who are waking up to the fact that they actually didn't elect Dennis Kucinich) and moderate-left-to-centrists who value having a president who is unabashedly intellectual. I'd be part of the second camp, I never bought the line that Obama was a leftist. He is not. Obama is a slightly left-leaning centrist that crazy people are calling every name in the book at, to see if it'll stick.

335 solomonpanting  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:16:31pm

re: #333 fenrisdesigns

It's good to know he's at least as peaceful as Yassir Arafat.

And by that you mean, what?

336 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:18:03pm

re: #210 Charles

Michelle Malkin is the owner of Hot Air.

So now we have a Michelle Malkin/Dobson axis of goonery. Terrific. Two of the most hateful and revolting people in the political arena.

337 Fenris  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:21:17pm

re: #335 solomonpanting

And by that you mean, what?

That since Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994, it's hard to take the award seriously anymore. Charles said the same thing.

338 solomonpanting  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:22:28pm

re: #337 fenrisdesigns

I totally agree.

339 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:25:42pm

At no time has the world been without war. Not in seven or ten or twenty thousand years. Neither the wisest of leaders, nor the noblest of kings, nor yet the Church--none of them has been able to stop it. And don't succumb to the facile belief that wars will be stopped by hotheaded socialists. Or that rational and just wars can be sorted out from the rest. There will always be thousands of thousands to whom even such a war will be senseless and unjustified. Quite simply, no state can live without war, that is one of the state's essential functions. ... War is the price we pay for living in a state. Before you can abolish war you will have to abolish all states. But that is unthinkable until the propensity to violence and evil is rooted out of human beings. The state was created to protect us from evil. ...

In ordinary life thousands of bad impulses, from a thousand foci of evil, move chaotically, randomly, against the vulnerable. The state is called upon to check these impulses--but it generates others of its own, still more powerful, and this time one-directional. At times it throws them all in a single direction--and that is war.
--"Father Severyan", in Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's November 1916

340 Fenris  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:26:59pm

re: #338 solomonpanting

I totally agree.

Hehe, surely you didn't think I was comparing Obama to Arafat. That would be uncivil.

341 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:27:09pm

re: #337 fenrisdesigns

That since Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994, it's hard to take the award seriously anymore. Charles said the same thing.

Maybe Obama receiving the Prize will help rehabilitate it somewhat--even though the committee was obviously flipping a bird at Bush, like when they awarded it to Carter.

342 solomonpanting  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:29:57pm

re: #340 fenrisdesigns

Hehe, surely you didn't think I was comparing Obama to Arafat. That would be uncivil.

As well as immorally equivalent.

343 Fenris  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 1:37:08pm

re: #342 solomonpanting

As well as immorally equivalent.

And just plain big fat meanie-faced.

/

344 robdouth  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 2:08:52pm

I will admit, I was reflexively appalled that Obama won the Nobel, but this speech is exactly what Dennis Prager had called for when he called the prize a joke, and now I'll have to see if he gives Obama his due because this was a once in a lifetime type speech. The fact that he didn't make the award about him, but about his role as the leader of this great country is touching. I will not forget this, and I have to humbly give Obama his due for this speech. God bless you Mr. President!

345 robdouth  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 2:10:50pm

re: #336 WindUpBird

You have to have a narrow window of Malkin and Dobson are two of the most hateful. I believe as you do that they do far more harm than good, and a look at their following is all you need to know, but you're engaging in some hyperbole if they are two of the worst.

346 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 2:19:35pm

re: #345 robdouth

They're two of the worst. No hyperbole.

347 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 2:44:58pm

re: #13 SixDegrees

Obama would have voted against himself on that poll multiple times.

In remarks afterwards he said "after listening to the introduction i was given i almost feel like i deserve it"...

I don't get why people make a big deal of the fact people don't believe he deserved the award when he himself was stunned.

348 garhighway  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 3:29:58pm

re: #281 LotharBot

A "commie"? Really?

Assuming that you use the word as a shortened version of "communist", then you are objectively wrong.

And it's "centrist", not "centerist".

349 garhighway  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 3:38:21pm

re: #326 davesax

I tend to think that the trifecta for BHO is (in no particular order) passing health care reform, having the economy (and more particularly employment) rebound and achieving some success in Afganistan. If he does those three things well and doesn't have something else huge go bad, he gets though the midterms with the usual minor loss of seats and wins in 2012 easily.

I think Iran is a mess beyond the influence of any American, so fixing it is not in the cards.

350 davesax  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 4:26:29pm

re: #349 garhighway

I actually rethought my stupid post. This was a great speech by Obama. He took on a toughness in front of European elites that we're not accustomed to hearing from him. Very well done.

351 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 6:15:39pm

re: #350 davesax

I actually rethought my stupid post. This was a great speech by Obama. He took on a toughness in front of European elites that we're not accustomed to hearing from him. Very well done.

Exactly -- and he defended using military force, as he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize.

352 irving  Thu, Dec 10, 2009 6:39:01pm

Getting this speech right was an extremely difficult trick, but Obama seems to have managed it quite well. It illustrates as skill George Bush simply did not have; that of using rhetoric (and the oft-mentioned "bully pulpit") to change the nature of an entire political discussion. After this it's going to be very hard indeed for the Nobel committee to nominate a sitting head of state for a Peace Prize, and absolutely everyone - including Obama - probably thinks that's a good thing. Obama made an extremely clear, persuasive, cogent argument about American centrism and the use of power ethically on the world stage that should bring anyone considering this sort of foolishness to a grinding halt.

At least a few commentators seem to think this speech is going to be taught in classrooms a few years down the road. As always, that's a bit premature, but I can see their point. It was a speech that said a lot, and did it very well indeed.

353 Sabnen  Fri, Dec 11, 2009 7:14:26am

The Norwegians can't get enough of Obama. He is so interesting to them.

All the major papers had pages and pages of photos of Barack and Michelle, really flattering photos too; not like the photos you get in the US papers where the politician is sneezing or touching their nose and, made to look less than heroic. Really good photos of the two and no sparing of the ink either.

Regarding the speech . . .
Apparently, the typical Norwegian politician is more of a technocrat and their speeches are bloodless, policy-laden bits of party doctrine. That Obama spoke with emotion and about his feelings towards receiving the award was a total breathe of fresh air to them. The Crown Princess (Jackie-O copy with pill-box hat in front row) was crying . . . grown Norwegians don't cry, especially The Royals.

The speech was great, I think Sharmuta and others picked out the best parts above. What is interesting to me is that the speech seems to have all been NEW material to the Norwegians, like they never heard any of it before. I think it goes to show that reminding Europeans of our sacrifices, on their behalf, is a good idea.

Deserving or not, I think having the world stage and making the speech he made is to Obama's credit. It was a Grand Slam and the ball will never be found. It was a great day for America yesterday and we should be proud of how well Obama did on our behalf.

Now, if I could get hold of 10 copies each of Michelle's 3 different outfits I could make 300,000 Nkr ($65,000) and take next year off!

354 gator80  Fri, Dec 11, 2009 1:01:39pm

re: #308 wrenchwench

I'm flattered that wrenchwench took the time to look up my earlier comment and a little saddened that she (I assume) can't find something more interesting to do. Otherwise, I guess all I can say is I was right then and I think it's a little too easy to cry racism as a way of changing the subject or avoiding the issue. Remember, the original post claims that President Obama has somehow proven that he is a centrist which, to repeat, may be true for Afghanistan but is not at all demonstrated, let alone confirmed, in other policy areas.

355 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 11, 2009 1:17:26pm

re: #354 gator80

I'm flattered that wrenchwench took the time to look up my earlier comment and a little saddened that she (I assume) can't find something more interesting to do. Otherwise, I guess all I can say is I was right then and I think it's a little too easy to cry racism as a way of changing the subject or avoiding the issue. Remember, the original post claims that President Obama has somehow proven that he is a centrist which, to repeat, may be true for Afghanistan but is not at all demonstrated, let alone confirmed, in other policy areas.

Thanks for your concern. It didn't take too much time out of my day to find your single other post.

Sometimes the subject is racism. (See the tags at the bottom of the original post?) Seems to be the issue you'd like to avoid, except to deny its importance, or even its existence.

356 gator80  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:35:31pm

re: #355 wrenchwench

Sometimes the subject is racism.

That's my point. Just because one accuses someone else of racism doesn't mean the subject really is racism. Sometimes it means one don't have a better argument.

Seems to be the issue you'd like to avoid

Actually, I have addressed it head on both in this post and the previous one you referenced. Are you saying that because I disagree with the interpretation of others I am avoiding it?

except to deny its importance

Where have I done that? I shouldn't even have to say that I agree with decent humans everywhere that combating racism is important. That is why I am sensitive to people who (probably inadvertently) diminish actual racism by frivolously charging racism without any basis.

or even its existence.

Here you're just not being serious, as I have obviously never said anything remotely close to this, and you are therefore only detracting from the likelihood that others will take you seriously.

(Even though it looks like the two of us are the only ones left in the room...)

357 gator80  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:37:26pm

Sorry, should say "one doesn't" in my first paragraph...


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