Michael Steele: The Earth is ‘Cooling’

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Politics • Sat Dec 12, 2009 at 9:35 am PST • Views: 548

Remember when RNC chairman Michael Steele criticized Rush Limbaugh, then was forced to back down and issue a groveling apology to the true head of the Republican Party?

Well, Steele has completed his reeducation programming, and is now spouting craziness just like any Limbaugh supporter, accusing the Obama administration of being like the Nixon administration — and demonizing Rush Limbaugh.

(These remarks are from his appearance on the William Bennett radio show.)

“I’m going to tell you something,” Steele replied. “You make such an important point, because I had a conversation earlier this week about the very point you just made about the Nixon administration. What you are seeing here, folks, unfold is nothing short of the Nixon administration played out in a different era and a different style. But the results and the effects are the same. You have H.R. Haldeman and Rahm Emanuel, these guys, the master manipulators, the master controllers in the background, moving and shaking the pieces, creating an enemies list, putting together the targets on our side. The whole strategy of demonizing Rush Limbaugh, which has been exposed now…”

And that’s not all. Steele also is now cleaving to the right wing denialist line on global warming — and to make it even more ridiculous, he claims the globe is “cooling.”

“Thank you, thank you,” he said. “We are cooling. We are not warming. The warming you see out there, the supposed warming, and I am using my finger quotation marks here, is part of the cooling process. Greenland, which is now covered in ice, it was once called Greenland for a reason, right? Iceland, which is now green. Oh I love this. Like we know what this planet is all about. How long have we been here? How long? Not very long.”

Steele isn’t just willfully ignorant about global warming — he’s shockingly uneducated about the origin of the name “Greenland.”

There are two written sources on the origin of the name, in The Book of Icelanders (Íslendingabók), a historical work dealing with early Icelandic history from the 12th century, and in the medieval Icelandic saga, The Saga of Eric the Red (Eiríks saga rauða), which is about the Norse settlement in Greenland and the story of Erik the Red in particular. Both sources write: “He named the land Greenland, saying that people would be eager to go there if it had a good name.”

Bad craziness at the very top of the GOP.

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1 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:35:55am

*facepalm*

2 Johnny Whiplash  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:37:11am

Just make up stuff Michael. It works for the Tea Baggers and Glenn Beck. While you're at it, how about providing some ice core studies to back up your claims.

3 Johnny Whiplash  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:39:52am

How long? 6000 years according to Sarah Palin.

4 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:39:57am

He blinded me with science!

5 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:40:33am

Scientifically and historically ignorant.

6 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:41:01am

re: #2 Johnny Whiplash

Just make up stuff Michael. It works for the Tea Baggers and Glenn Beck. While you're at it, how about providing some ice core studies to back up your claims.

He thinks "ice core" studies measure how frozen in dogma the GOP base is.

/I wish I was kidding

7 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:41:20am

As the days while away, so do the chances to effectively address AGW AND maintain the modern lifestyle we enjoy.

8 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:42:18am

re: #4 bratwurst

He blinded me with science stupid!

fixed

9 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:43:25am

Michael Steele fell for 1000 year-old marketing ploy.

10 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:43:58am
...these guys, the master manipulators, the master controllers in the background, moving and shaking the pieces...

And here I thought he was talking about Cheney, silly me.

11 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:43:59am
The Greenland gaffe was not Steele's most glaring. Earlier in the program a caller asked him about the importance of education. The RNC Chair responded with a curious comment about the need to understand the differences between Hitler and Mussolini, as opposed to FDR and "his honor, the honorable Winston Churchill." Only, he spoke of "Roberto Mussolini" -- an obscure essayist, it seems -- as opposed to the much more infamous fascist, Benito.

"Education is key," said the RNC Chair. "It is where it begins, for all of us... If we understand the difference between Marxism, socialism and capitalism; if we understand the difference between a Roberto Mussolini, an Adolf Hitler, and a Franklin Roosevelt, and his honor the honorable Winston Churchill, if we know those differences than we can appreciate what these times mean. And how history is a precursor of things to come."


Ha!

12 Gus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:44:27am

Michael Steele is using his gray matter just as efficiently as his former brother in law, Mike Tyson. What a bird brain.

13 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:45:06am

I'm not sure what cooling process he's talking about but NOAA had this report on the recent North American cooling trend:

North American 2008 Cooling Attributed to Natural Causes

“We found that North American coolness resulted from a strong bout of naturally caused cooling in the tropical and northeastern Pacific sea surface temperatures,” said Martin Hoerling, a NOAA meteorologist and co-author. “This illustrates how regional patterns can vary independent of the overall global average. In 2008, global land temperatures were the sixth warmest on record, whereas it was the coldest year in North America since 1996.”

14 Gus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:45:17am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Ha!

Roberto Mussolini?

15 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:47:12am

Politicians, leave the science to scientists.

16 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:47:25am

re: #13 Sharmuta

Nice to try but good luck with that.
After all he has no idea.

17 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:48:37am

My motto for the upcoming elections is "Cut The Fringe".

18 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:48:42am

What, exactly, does the GOP see in Steele again? Oh, yeah...the other guy running for that seat didn't do much for party diversity.

I thought they gave him orders to STFU about just about every issue and to focus on raising money for candidates (which is his principal job). My guess is Steele will be replaced by Sarah Palin in the next year. Fortunately for the Republicans, Steele is aired almost exclusively on their private network. He rarely appears on the other news and broadcast networks...so the amount of damage he can do is minimal--he's speaking mostly to the base who probably believe Iceland is supposed to be icy and Greenland is supposed to be green.

19 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:50:27am

re: #13 Sharmuta

I'm not sure what cooling process he's talking about but NOAA had this report on the recent North American cooling trend:

North American 2008 Cooling Attributed to Natural Causes

Yeah, every time the weather a little colder then normal my business likes to toss out his snarky "Must be global warming!" At some point I just gave trying to explain the difference between weather and climate. It does me no good.

20 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:51:47am

re: #17 Rightwingconspirator

My motto for the upcoming elections is "Cut The Fringe".

Or, in sewing/fabric terms, 'selvage'

21 albusteve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:52:27am

the truth shall set you free...be patient

22 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 9:59:42am

This makes me really nervous.

23 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:00:09am
Greenland, which is now covered in ice, it was once called Greenland for a reason, right? Iceland, which is now green.

That happens to be a (lame)* Robin Williams joke. I remember it from watching one of his comedy shows on HBO back in the 80s.


* - I realize, of course, that the phrase "lame Robin Williams joke" is redundant, sort of like saying "ATM machine".

24 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:01:51am

re: #23 negativ

Or "shrimp scampi".

25 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:02:54am

re: #23 negativ

That happens to be a (lame)* Robin Williams joke. I remember it from watching one of his comedy shows on HBO back in the 80s.

* - I realize, of course, that the phrase "lame Robin Williams joke" is redundant, sort of like saying "ATM machine".

Interesting. I was wondering where he got that talking point. I assumed it was some AGW denier thing from one of those mass emails.

26 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:02:58am

By the way, since it's such an important indicator, what can we learn about the REAL TRUTH of climatology from the names of these other countries?

England, Ireland, Poland, Switzerland, Finland, Thailand, New Zealand, Scotland, Netherlands, and Swaziland

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:04:35am

The Norse settlements in Greenland lasted for about five hundred years, and it's clear from the archaelogical evidence that there was widespread starvation in the final years. Only the native Greenlanders were ever able to make a go of the place, and even they struggled to make it through the winter without losing too many people to the cold and the lack of food.

28 Gus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:04:37am

Rahm Emanuel is quite the sinister looking and acting politico. However, here's a short look back at H.R. Haldeman for Michael "Roberto" Steele:

On January 1, 1975, Haldeman was convicted of conspiracy and obstruction of justice. He was sentenced to serve 2 1/2 to 8 years, reduced to 1 to 4 years after appeal. In Lompoc Federal Prison, he worked as a chemist in the sewage treatment facility. After serving 18 months, Haldeman was released on parole, December 20, 1978.

On November 12, 1993, after refusing medical treatment in accordance with his Christian Science beliefs, Haldeman died of undisclosed causes...

No surprise that he made these comments on the reactionary William Bennett's radio program. In a double twist, Steele's new brand of followers will have no problem embracing the extremist Watergate felon, G. Gordon Liddy.

29 borgcube  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:04:55am

Bad craziness, meet bad craziness:

[Link: news.sky.com...]

30 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:05:01am

re: #26 negativ

"Hope we don't get too much Swazi today, we have a big game..."

31 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:05:28am

re: #18 darthstar

What, exactly, does the GOP see in Steele again? Oh, yeah...the other guy running for that seat didn't do much for party diversity.

I thought they gave him orders to STFU about just about every issue and to focus on raising money for candidates (which is his principal job). My guess is Steele will be replaced by Sarah Palin in the next year. Fortunately for the Republicans, Steele is aired almost exclusively on their private network. He rarely appears on the other news and broadcast networks...so the amount of damage he can do is minimal--he's speaking mostly to the base who probably believe Iceland is supposed to be icy and Greenland is supposed to be green.

I want to say that I don't really think it's about the race issue. I mean, how do I know, but Steele is a part of the GOP, really and truly. I don't recall anyone telling him to be quiet tho, other than those Republicans who aren't pleased with the direction of the party as a whole.

32 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:05:50am

This is the Republican plan for electoral victory?

33 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:06:45am

re: #18 darthstar

What, exactly, does the GOP see in Steele again? Oh, yeah...the other guy running for that seat didn't do much for party diversity.

I thought they gave him orders to STFU about just about every issue and to focus on raising money for candidates (which is his principal job). My guess is Steele will be replaced by Sarah Palin in the next year. Fortunately for the Republicans, Steele is aired almost exclusively on their private network. He rarely appears on the other news and broadcast networks...so the amount of damage he can do is minimal--he's speaking mostly to the base who probably believe Iceland is supposed to be icy and Greenland is supposed to be green.

Oh and your comment about Palin is quite interesting! Could very well be.

34 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:07:16am

re: #28 Gus 802

Rahm Emanuel is quite the sinister looking and acting politico. However, here's a short look back at H.R. Haldeman for Michael "Roberto" Steele:

No surprise that he made these comments on the reactionary William Bennett's radio program. In a double twist, Steele's new brand of followers will have no problem embracing the extremist Watergate felon, G. Gordon Liddy.

It's telling that the criticism is limited to those Watergate figures who have died. The two surviving major players (Liddy, and Chuck Colson) are still lauded by the GOP.

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:07:30am

re: #31 marjoriemoon

I want to say that I don't really think it's about the race issue. I mean, how do I know, but Steele is a part of the GOP, really and truly. I don't recall anyone telling him to be quiet tho, other than those Republicans who aren't pleased with the direction of the party as a whole.

He seemed sort of sensible and straightforward to me when he first stepped up, but the Rush thing really damaged him. I don't know. Maybe he is wholeheartedly stupid, but it's hard for me to feel that he's not reading some sort of script on this.

36 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:07:35am

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionistMaybe it was called "groan land".

37 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:07:52am

re: #32 Stuart Leviton

Yes, this time it's the "load 'em up with the stupid" philosophy. Clearly, rational discourse isn't the preferred mode any longer...

38 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:07:53am

re: #26 negativ

While we're at it why not look at how their full names correspond to governance...

German Democratic Republic
People's Republic of China
Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Democratic People's Republic of Korea

Never put too much stock in labels. They rarely tell you all you need to know.

39 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:09:43am

re: #38 JasonA

While we're at it why not look at how their full names correspond to governance...

German Democratic Republic
People's Republic of China
Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Democratic People's Republic of Korea

Never put too much stock in labels. They rarely tell you all you need to know.

Jon Stewart actually uses the full name of the Congo to demonstrate something along those lines.

40 SteveMcG  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:10:07am

Who would have giessed that Eric the Red was the first real estate agent?

41 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:10:53am

The warming is part of the cooling process?
How exactly does that work?

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:11:01am

Not to mention that, although I may be wrong, I have this sneaking suspicion that Steele didn't think of that delightful quip about Greenland all by himself.

43 Gus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:11:35am

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

It's telling that the criticism is limited to those Watergate figures who have died. The two surviving major players (Liddy, and Chuck Colson) are still lauded by the GOP.

Yes. Steele us using the dead to demonize the current administration while they (the GOP) laud the living such as Liddy and Colson. It's an ethical double standard that they employ for cynical political purposes. Also, while not implicated in Watergate, there is the matter of Fred Malek (who compiled a list of Jews to be fired from the Department of Labor to be fired by Nixon) and Sarah Palin.

44 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:12:01am

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

He seemed sort of sensible and straightforward to me when he first stepped up, but the Rush thing really damaged him. I don't know. Maybe he is wholeheartedly stupid, but it's hard for me to feel that he's not reading some sort of script on this.

I don't know much about him really. Of the times I've heard him speak and he seems pretty well planted on the Right. Maybe his defense of Rush made me think he was further Right of center.

45 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:12:11am

re: #40 SteveMcG

Who would have giessed that Eric the Red was the first real estate agent?

Oh, I'm pretty sure it was done much earlier by others. Humans were smarter thousands of years ago than we give them credit for.

46 SteveMcG  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:12:23am

The troubles of the Republican Party aren't going away very soon. If you figure by the end of his second term, George W. Bush was still pulling about 28% job approval. That's easily gotta be a majority of Republican voters. If they could deny that sort of reality they can deny anything!

47 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:12:32am

re: #29 borgcube

Bad craziness, meet bad craziness:

[Link: news.sky.com...]

This is one reason why I hope the Teabaggers just stick to yelling and don't ever actually bother to get off their ass and do something. Those Black Bloc types are scary-dangerous; not terribly different from those guys who pulled that jackass stunt in a Munich Bierhaus some years back.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:12:54am

re: #40 SteveMcG

Who would have giessed that Eric the Red was the first real estate agent?

When they first relocated, Mrs. the Red demanded Erik build her a chapel. She was Christian, he was pagan, and she rightly suspected that her god would be taken care of after his were...so she said she wouldn't have sex with him until the chapel was built.

The chapel was built. Lickety-split. The ruins still stand on the site of their farm.

49 SteveMcG  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:13:39am

re: #41 reine.de.tout

All the heat is leaving the Earth's crust and entering the atmosphere.

50 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:13:55am

This is why I favor Newt Gingrich at RNC HQ. Newt is much more pro-science and a far better strategist than the gop has had in many , many years. He's not electable thanks to his personal life, and his previous reputation for being the Gingrich who stole Christmas, but getting the RNC back on track is right up his ally. I was hopeful Mr Steele would bring the GOP back around, but instead he's going off the rails with the rest of them. Pity.

51 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:14:58am

Alley. PIMF and a *sigh*

52 HoosierHoops  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:15:16am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

When they first relocated, Mrs. the Red demanded Erik build her a chapel. She was Christian, he was pagan, and she rightly suspected that her god would be taken care of after his were...so she said she wouldn't have sex with him until the chapel was built.

The chapel was built. Lickety-split. The ruins still stand on the site of their farm.

I did not know that..interesting story

53 davesax  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:15:43am

Caroline Glickhas also hitched a ride on the denialist bandwagon.

54 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:16:33am

re: #53 davesax

Caroline Glickhas also hitched a ride on the denialist bandwagon.

Ah, damn.

55 albusteve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:17:20am

re: #53 davesax

Caroline Glickhas also hitched a ride on the denialist bandwagon.

so have millions of others it seem...AGW is in deep doodoo, could be decades before the smoke clears

56 Cato the Elder  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:19:05am

re: #14 Gus 802

Roberto Mussolini?

Maybe he meant Roberto Benigni.

57 albusteve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:20:25am

re: #56 Cato the Elder

Maybe he meant Roberto Benigni.

or Roberto Clemente

58 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:20:27am

re: #55 albusteve

so have millions of others it seem...AGW is in deep doodoo, could be decades before the smoke clears


Are you suggesting that AGW is a pollutant? //

59 researchok  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:20:35am

re: #50 Sharmuta

This is why I favor Newt Gingrich at RNC HQ. Newt is much more pro-science and a far better strategist than the gop has had in many , many years. He's not electable thanks to his personal life, and his previous reputation for being the Gingrich who stole Christmas, but getting the RNC back on track is right up his ally. I was hopeful Mr Steele would bring the GOP back around, but instead he's going off the rails with the rest of them. Pity.

Good points on Gingrich, to which you can add he's not beholden to the Christian right.

60 Seltzer123  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:20:36am

Do you really want to know how deep the rabbit hole goes? Take a look a look at the fox news climate "quiz"

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The "correct" answers can be seen by clicking on the "view results" tags.

61 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:21:18am

re: #55 albusteve

so have millions of others it seem...AGW is in deep doodoo, could be decades before the smoke clears

Decades we don't have. By that time, it'll be too late.

62 Big Steve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:21:34am

Greenland? Hell they used to tell suckers potential settlers in the 19th century that Texas was a lush garden of Eden.

63 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:21:56am

re: #53 davesax

Caroline Glickhas also hitched a ride on the denialist bandwagon.

Who is Caroline Glick?

64 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:22:45am

re: #62 Big Steve

Greenland? Hell they used to tell suckers potential settlers in the 19th century that Texas was a lush garden of Eden.

Once dated a lady from Texas. I'd classify her as a lush garden of eden, does that count!?!?

65 Cato the Elder  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:23:04am

re: #62 Big Steve

Greenland? Hell they used to tell suckers potential settlers in the 19th century that Texas was a lush garden of Eden.

Same thing with Minnesota. Lots of Norwegians believed the hype; hence songs like "Oleana".

66 Gus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:23:11am

re: #53 davesax

Caroline Glickhas also hitched a ride on the denialist bandwagon.

I'm not sure if that's the case. She does say:

And if the planet is in fact getting hotter, it is far from clear that the radical steps they intend to adopt will have any impact on how hot the world becomes. Even assuming that the problem is real and that the remedies on the table are sound, they will have to be universally implemented to work.

Perhaps it's more of a case of embracing the "Climategate band wagon." Frankly, I think there is some dubious political shenanigans going on at COP15 regardless and this includes several rogue nations.

67 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:23:23am

re: #47 negativ

This is one reason why I hope the Teabaggers just stick to yelling and don't ever actually bother to get off their ass and do something. Those Black Bloc types are scary-dangerous; not terribly different from those guys who pulled that jackass stunt in a Munich Bierhaus some years back.

I'd be surprised if the Black Bloc even votes. I've seen these kids. Kids. Anarchists really who don't believe in voting and not representative of the vast majority of the Dem party.

68 brennant  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:23:33am

re: #4 bratwurst

best. LGF comment. ever.

69 albusteve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:23:37am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Decades we don't have. By that time, it'll be too late.

enough people disbelieve that, so you better invest in snorkles and fins I guess

70 Big Steve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:23:45am

re: #64 sattv4u2

Once dated a lady from Texas. I'd classify her as a lush garden of eden, does that count!?!?

only if you will send me her phone number...

71 SteveMcG  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:23:54am

re: #59 researchok

Good points on Gingrich, to which you can add he's not beholden to the Christian right.

I'm not buying that. The problem is that that Christian right will overpower any normal Republicans, or what's left of them. I think Newt thought he would use the right to boost Republican power, but found of putting them on his back they walked all over him.

72 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:24:01am

re: #63 darthstar

Who is Caroline Glick?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

(btw ,, GOOGLE is kinda ,, well ,, FREE!)

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:24:23am

re: #59 researchok

Good points on Gingrich, to which you can add he's not beholden to the Christian right.

He seems to be under attack from the True Believers now, though. Ungrateful bastages. I don't like Newt, but that's because I'm old enough to remember when he was the Hammer of the Democrats. If these youngsters think they can do more for their party, they had better understand they have big, big shoes to fill.

74 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:25:37am

WTH? Beck is doubling down on gold, and check out the first video where the chalkboard says "Gold, God, Guns".

75 Gus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:25:57am

re: #62 Big Steve

Greenland? Hell they used to tell suckers potential settlers in the 19th century that Texas was a lush garden of Eden.

Then there's...

New Jersey, the Garden State.

//

76 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:26:00am

While Rahm Emanuel is fair political game, I fear that Jew hatred will be the unspoken theme. (This wouldn't be the first time I said something over-the-top on lgf. On the other hand, I wonder if the topic will be too distressing for anyone to speak up above should it come to pass).

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:26:03am

re: #63 darthstar

Who is Caroline Glick?

Israeli journalist, editor at the JPost.

78 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:26:29am

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks.

79 SteveMcG  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:26:40am

The same thing happened to Ed Rendell in 2000/01. He became DNC Chairman (?), but got out of there after the recount fiasco. It was too crazy for him.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:26:59am

re: #67 marjoriemoon

I'd be surprised if the Black Bloc even votes. I've seen these kids. Kids. Anarchists really who don't believe in voting and not representative of the vast majority of the Dem party.

The Black Bloc aren't Democrats, that's for sure. They despise lily-livered liberals like me, who oppress the poor and the planet by buying into representative democracy.

81 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:27:16am

re: #59 researchok

Good points on Gingrich, to which you can add he's not beholden to the Christian right.

I don't know about that- he seems all to willing to play nice with them, but I think where there is conflict is on the science. Not so sure how willing other interests in the GOP would be to supporting Newt for RNC Chair.

82 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:28:57am

re: #60 Seltzer123

Do you really want to know how deep the rabbit hole goes? Take a look a look at the fox news climate "quiz"

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The "correct" answers can be seen by clicking on the "view results" tags.


5 out of 12 answers are "coin toss"
Not that I expected anything really thorough...

83 researchok  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:30:19am

re: #81 Sharmuta

I don't know about that- he seems all to willing to play nice with them, but I think where there is conflict is on the science. Not so sure how willing other interests in the GOP would be to supporting Newt for RNC Chair.

Newt may be willing to play ball, but I don't believe he's beholden to then. In fact, his bad behavior probably precludes that, which is a good thing.

He is a lot purer than the bible thumpers when it comes to conservatism, I believe.

84 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:30:37am

re: #72 sattv4u2

Yeah...I'm familiar with teh google. I clicked the first link to Glick and saw that she had a blog, but apparently just about everybody gets a blog these days. I don't have enough interest in climate change deniers to spend time researching them...even ten seconds of google. I figured since three people here were familiar with her, she was part of the republican world...hence my asking.

85 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:30:38am

re: #38 JasonA

While we're at it why not look at how their full names correspond to governance...

German Democratic Republic
People's Republic of China
Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Democratic People's Republic of Korea

Never put too much stock in labels. They rarely tell you all you need to know.

While "Democrat" and "People's" are marks of socialist politics, the term "socialist" is usually reserved for communist parties. Em... usually. Social politics - American Style - Democrats, support social programs that benefit others, usually those in need, the poor, elderly and underprivileged. We also do not object to paying taxes that benefit the community (roads, transportation, education). Clinton's welfare reform was excellent even if it could have gone much further. Without a Republican Congress, it would have. It's still in great need of refinement and oversight.

86 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:31:04am

re: #74 Sharmuta

WTH? Beck is doubling down on gold, and check out the first video where the chalkboard says "Gold, God, Guns".

Heh. When the government doesn't collapse Beck's idiot fans are going to lose their shirts.

87 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:31:05am

re: #83 researchok

Newt may be willing to play ball, but I don't believe he's beholden to then. In fact, his bad behavior probably precludes that, which is a good thing.

He is a lot purer than the bible thumpers when it comes to conservatism, I believe.

Quite Concur.

88 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:31:50am

re: #83 researchok

He didn't endorse Hoffman in NY 23.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:32:59am

re: #84 darthstar

Yeah...I'm familiar with teh google. I clicked the first link to Glick and saw that she had a blog, but apparently just about everybody gets a blog these days. I don't have enough interest in climate change deniers to spend time researching them...even ten seconds of google. I figured since three people here were familiar with her, she was part of the republican world...hence my asking.

She's mostly known as a commenter on Israeli policy and politics, but she's American-born, and writes in English. Not really part of the Republican world, but a conservative writer who's well-known by Lizards with an interest in the Middle East.

90 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:33:08am

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Heh. When the government doesn't collapse Beck's idiot fans are going to lose their shirts.

It's really quite the BUY GOLD! rant, and I'm surprised Fox let him do that considering he's already in trouble with Fox for this conflict of interest.

91 SteveMcG  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:33:27am

Re the Fox quiz. In the answers, #1 (Are Global temperature rising, Fox seems to say coin toss, but for #3, (Is climate change man-made?) fox says "Temperatures have seen a global rise in the past 30 years".

92 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:34:02am

re: #86 Killgore Trout

[burning eyes] Can we take up a collection to at least ensure they keep the shirts on? Please? My mind is busy trying to scrub the thought of a bunch of disappointed angry Beck fans shirtless.

The horror...

93 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:34:09am

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Heh. When the government doesn't collapse Beck's idiot fans are going to lose their shirts.

I think the Mormons have a better general disaster plan--maybe Beck should endorse that.

94 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:34:25am

re: #90 Sharmuta

It's really quite the BUY GOLD! rant, and I'm surprised Fox let him do that considering he's already in trouble with Fox for this conflict of interest.

Oh- and we'll all be saved by having fruit cellars.

95 Gus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:34:42am

re: #60 Seltzer123

Do you really want to know how deep the rabbit hole goes? Take a look a look at the fox news climate "quiz"

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The "correct" answers can be seen by clicking on the "view results" tags.

Yikes. That's not a quiz it's a poll!

The majority there do not "believe" that the Arctic sea ice is thinning even though we find:

New NASA Satellite Survey Reveals Dramatic Arctic Sea Ice Thinning

NASA - Satellites See a Double-Texas Sized Loss In Arctic Sea Ice

That even flies in the face of an anthropogenic vs. non-anthropogenic argument.

96 Big Steve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:34:54am

Don't know if this has been commented on...but a week or so ago the internet was all a twitter about an account, by one of the passengers of the Airtran incident. It turns out the writer was an employee of NASA in Houston. He sent some e-mail to a friend about his heroics on this flight, friend forwarded it, and it went viral. Turns out the guy fibbed just a bit. Airtran Incident

97 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:35:01am

re: #90 Sharmuta

It's really quite the BUY GOLD! rant, and I'm surprised Fox let him do that considering he's already in trouble with Fox for this conflict of interest.

People are pointing it out but I don't think Fox management is upset about it.

98 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:35:15am

re: #50 Sharmuta

I tend to agree with Newt on foreign policy and disagree on domestic policy.

[Link: edition.cnn.com...]

Bear in mind that was from 2007, and is pretty much a criticism of the Bush administration.

I think his point that we're not serious about fighting terrorism is a good one. We as a nation seem to have a knack for finding the dumbest possible way to address any problem and then pursuing it full-throttle. Obviously, we don't always do things that way, but when our notion of airport security involves inspecting shoes and making mothers who are very obviously not terrorists prove that the baby formula they're carrying isn't a deadly explosive, and when a major metro police force goes apeshit and shuts down half the city over a marketing campaign for a cartoon show, it shows we're in deep shit of our own making.

I cannot find the clip to save my life, but at one point a few years ago, the guy who was in charge of the FBI's counterterrorism division at the time testified to Congress that he not only didn't know the difference between a Sunni and a Shia Muslim, but he also thought it didn't matter. THAT is the textbook definition of incompetence. If you don't know anything about your enemy or care what motivates them to kill others and sacrifice their own lives in the process, how can you ever hope to stop them? Sun Tzu aptly pointed that out over 2600 years ago.

99 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:35:50am

re: #60 Seltzer123

Welcome, belated hatchling.

100 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:36:06am

re: #90 Sharmuta

It's really quite the BUY GOLD! rant, and I'm surprised Fox let him do that considering he's already in trouble with Fox for this conflict of interest.

They don' want to lose Beck while he's still making them money.

I've got the flu, and need to lie down now. BBL

101 HoosierHoops  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:36:18am

re: #90 Sharmuta

It's really quite the BUY GOLD! rant, and I'm surprised Fox let him do that considering he's already in trouble with Fox for this conflict of interest.

I don't understand the concept of buying gold at 1000 dollars per oz..and then when the economy recovers it's worth 350 dollars per oz...
what kind of investment is that?

102 researchok  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:36:28am

I wonder how much institutional money is still buying gold/silver.

Seems to me smart money got in at 800 and out 30% later.

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:36:33am

re: #92 Slap

[burning eyes] Can we take up a collection to at least ensure they keep the shirts on? Please? My mind is busy trying to scrub the thought of a bunch of disappointed angry Beck fans shirtless.

The horror...

You all familiar with this?

104 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:37:39am

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

She's mostly known as a commenter on Israeli policy and politics, but she's American-born, and writes in English. Not really part of the Republican world, but a conservative writer who's well-known by Lizards with an interest in the Middle East.

Thanks...the google wouldn't have been able to tell me that.

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:38:03am

re: #100 Dark_Falcon

They don' want to lose Beck while he's still making them money.

I've got the flu, and need to lie down now. BBL

Keep warm, drink liquids.

106 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:38:24am

re: #73 SanFranciscoZionist

He seems to be under attack from the True Believers now, though. Ungrateful bastages. I don't like Newt, but that's because I'm old enough to remember when he was the Hammer of the Democrats. If these youngsters think they can do more for their party, they had better understand they have big, big shoes to fill.

I can't get my brain around Newt. He's quite the conundrum. I LOVE HIM ON ISRAEL and boy, I can't say that loud enough. He's amazing the way he speaks. No politician, even on the Right, supports Israel like Newt and I watch Meet the Press every morning.

And then there's this. Did you hear about the Al Sharpton, Newt Gingrich, Arne Duncan (Secretary of Education) triangle? There's a website, but I'm having a hard time finding it.

107 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:38:42am

re: #101 HoosierHoops

In order to understand it, imagine yourself in the place of a seller/broker of gold.

Is it clear now?

:)

108 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:39:27am

re: #97 Killgore Trout

People are pointing it out but I don't think Fox management is upset about it.

Glenn Beck’s Gold Endorsement Goes Too Far For Fox

109 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:39:35am

re: #95 Gus 802

Oh, come on now. Clearly, NASA shot those photos in the same studio where they faked the moon landing.///

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:40:07am

re: #106 marjoriemoon

I can't get my brain around Newt. He's quite the conundrum. I LOVE HIM ON ISRAEL and boy, I can't say that loud enough. He's amazing the way he speaks. No politician, even on the Right, supports Israel like Newt and I watch Meet the Press every morning.

And then there's this. Did you hear about the Al Sharpton, Newt Gingrich, Arne Duncan (Secretary of Education) triangle? There's a website, but I'm having a hard time finding it.

Interesting.

111 Gus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:40:15am

re: #109 Slap

Oh, come on now. Clearly, NASA shot those photos in the same studio where they faked the moon landing.///

NASA Fauxtography!

/

112 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:40:24am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

The Black Bloc aren't Democrats, that's for sure. They despise lily-livered liberals like me, who oppress the poor and the planet by buying into representative democracy.


And when they hit forty, most of them will have a two-car garage in suburbia and a few will be in jail. And when they hit fifty ...

113 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:40:45am

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

She's mostly known as a commenter on Israeli policy and politics, but she's American-born, and writes in English. Not really part of the Republican world, but a conservative writer who's well-known by Lizards with an interest in the Middle East.

Although not agreeing with everything Glick writes, I think she's terrific.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:41:41am

re: #112 Stuart Leviton

And when they hit forty, most of them will have a two-car garage in suburbia and a few will be in jail. And when they hit fifty ...

Probably why I resent them so much. I'm pushing forty and I don't even have a damn car!

115 HoosierHoops  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:42:49am

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

Probably why I resent them so much. I'm pushing forty and I don't even have a damn car!

No reason to have a car in the City..No place to park the damn thing.

116 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:43:35am

re: #108 Sharmuta

Ah, I hadn't seen that. It could be damage control. There could be backlash from viewers if they think they've been scammed.

117 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:44:10am

re: #107 negativ

In order to understand it, imagine yourself in the place of a seller/broker of gold.

Is it clear now?

:)

I'm investing in state quarters. You can get them for only 59 cents each from some websites. collect all 50! Oh, and if you want, you can get a roll of quarters (that's a $10 roll) for only $15.95 (plus shipping and handling).

Gold may go up and down, but a quarter is always going to be worth 25 cents.

118 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:44:26am

re: #112 Stuart Leviton

And when they hit forty, most of them will have a two-car garage in suburbia and a few will be in jail. And when they hit fifty ...

But until them, it's BURN and DESTROY and if some capitalist pig and a few innocent bystanders get hurt or killed, well... that's just collateral damage.

119 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:44:33am

re: #112 Stuart Leviton

And a good number of them will turn up in whatever group is the equivalent of the teaparty cowpats when that time arrives.

120 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:45:18am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

The Black Bloc aren't Democrats, that's for sure. They despise lily-livered liberals like me, who oppress the poor and the planet by buying into representative democracy.

Wow. I couldn't have said that better! lol

121 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:45:41am

re: #117 darthstar

I'm investing in state quarters. You can get them for only 59 cents each from some websites. collect all 50! Oh, and if you want, you can get a roll of quarters (that's a $10 roll) for only $15.95 (plus shipping and handling).

Gold may go up and down, but a quarter is always going to be worth 25 cents.

64 Kennedy half dollars are worth $32.00.

122 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:46:52am

re: #60 Seltzer123

Do you really want to know how deep the rabbit hole goes? Take a look a look at the fox news climate "quiz"

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The "correct" answers can be seen by clicking on the "view results" tags.

So sea levels are rising but it's a coin toss whether it's because of a decrease in continental water ice? Pray tell, where is it coming from? The bowels of the earth?

Fox logic...

123 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:47:04am

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Interesting.

And further to blow my mind, Sharpton was so right on, it was scary. I'm so hoping they succeed. I guess this very bizarre mix reaffirms my faith in this country lol

124 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:47:36am

re: #84 darthstar

I figured since three people here were familiar with her, she was part of the republican world

and thus automatically deemed not worthy of finding out who she is? Like any other 'world', the "republican" one comes in many shapes and forms

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:48:43am

re: #123 marjoriemoon

And further to blow my mind, Sharpton was so right on, it was scary. I'm so hoping they succeed. I guess this very bizarre mix reaffirms my faith in this country lol

I'll have to read that carefully when I have time. I've read some stuff on Michelle Rhee, and I wasn't so impressed, but it sounds like Newt has some very good ideas he's presenting there.

126 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:49:11am

re: #106 marjoriemoon

...and I watch Meet the Press every Sunday morning.

Sorry. This what happens when you're pushing 50 and stay up until 2:30a the night before.

127 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:49:14am

re: #98 negativ

Woops. Fixing my screwed-up link, because I'd like to see what others think about it.

PIMIO

*Indifferent Observer

128 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:49:14am

re: #104 darthstar

Thanks...the google wouldn't have been able to tell me that.

Actually, the WIKI link I provided pretty much does just that!

129 HoosierHoops  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:49:18am

re: #122 austin_blue

So sea levels are rising but it's a coin toss whether it's because of a decrease in continental water ice? Pray tell, where is it coming from? The bowels of the earth?

Fox logic...

When the whole earth was covered in water a bunch of it receded to a secret spot..It's now coming back..
//

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:49:36am

re: #124 sattv4u2

I figured since three people here were familiar with her, she was part of the republican world

and thus automatically deemed not worthy of finding out who she is? Like any other 'world', the "republican" one comes in many shapes and forms

I think he just figured someone would be able to explain quickly why she was significant in this context, as well as who she was. No ill intent perceived here.

131 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:51:06am

re: #117 darthstar

I'm investing in state quarters. You can get them for only 59 cents each from some websites. collect all 50! Oh, and if you want, you can get a roll of quarters (that's a $10 roll) for only $15.95 (plus shipping and handling).

Gold may go up and down, but a quarter is always going to be worth 25 cents.

My son has all 50 plus several of the territories that he's collected just from loose change

132 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:51:31am

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

I think he just figured someone would be able to explain quickly why she was significant in this context, as well as who she was. No ill intent perceived here.

What she said. I meant no disrespect to Ms Glick.

133 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:51:46am

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

I think he just figured someone would be able to explain quickly why she was significant in this context, as well as who she was. No ill intent perceived here.

could be, just looked a tad knee jerk to me. If it wasn't, I was wrong and all is well

134 JamesWI  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:51:54am

re: #96 Big Steve

Don't know if this has been commented on...but a week or so ago the internet was all a twitter about an account, by one of the passengers of the Airtran incident. It turns out the writer was an employee of NASA in Houston. He sent some e-mail to a friend about his heroics on this flight, friend forwarded it, and it went viral. Turns out the guy fibbed just a bit. Airtran Incident

Of course, the Deuce was ranting and raving about that when they heard about it. Chances of retractions from all the posters making hateful comments based on a lie??

135 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:52:07am

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

I'll have to read that carefully when I have time. I've read some stuff on Michelle Rhee, and I wasn't so impressed, but it sounds like Newt has some very good ideas he's presenting there.

In short, it's an education initiative to give failing schools money for books, computers, I think paying teachers higher salaries to limit class size and the like. Schools compete for these funds. I'm not quite clear on what the competition is and I'm kinda upset they haven't come to Miami (maybe the will in the future) because we really need help here. I'm also not clear if they deal with charter schools and public schools or just charter schools.

I had a website link, but I can't find it. I'm looking.

136 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:52:11am

re: #132 darthstar

What she said. I meant no disrespect to Ms Glick.

my bad, then. Looked knee jerk to me

137 Gus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:52:44am

re: #122 austin_blue

So sea levels are rising but it's a coin toss whether it's because of a decrease in continental water ice? Pray tell, where is it coming from? The bowels of the earth?

Fox logic...

Maybe they can Google "sea level" while they're busy Googling for the definition of "czar."

/

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:53:03am

re: #134 JamesWI

Of course, the Deuce was ranting and raving about that when they heard about it. Chances of retractions from all the posters making hateful comments based on a lie??

Debbie Schlussel went berserko on that, and kept her CONFIRMED notice up even after the airlines said the fella was not on the flight.

I can't even express my contempt for this jerk.

139 HoosierHoops  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:54:17am

re: #134 JamesWI

Of course, the Deuce was ranting and raving about that when they heard about it. Chances of retractions from all the posters making hateful comments based on a lie??

Zero..Funny thing is..That story was shot down by Airtrans within 24 hrs...And yet they doubled down every day on it...

140 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:54:37am

way OT:

Is there a way to reply while using the Spy, or do I just need to go into the thread and fish for the comment I intend to reply to? I mean, obviously LGF needs my breathtakingly useful input, so consider it your duty to make it as effortless as possible for me.

141 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:54:43am

re: #131 sattv4u2

My son has all 50 plus several of the territories that he's collected just from loose change

Cool. I collected Euro coins from each country while I was living overseas. Then I spent 'em. When we were kids, my brothers got into coin collecting. I liked the buffalo head nickels, and used to pay 45 cents for one at the coin shop (This was in the early 1970s). Don't know what happened to that box of coins (and they'd collected some coins that cost $15 or more back then). I suspect it got thrown out in the trash when my parents retired to a golf course...too bad, as there probably were some decent coins a collector might want.

143 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:55:26am

re: #140 negativ

Little green entitlements?/

144 eneri  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:55:40am

The frightening part is the number of ignorant people who are proud of their ignorance.

145 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:56:12am

re: #136 sattv4u2

my bad, then. Looked knee jerk to me

No worries.

146 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:57:05am

It's "Shop With A Cop" day. Every law enforcement vehicle in the county just went by, sirens blaring, with little kids in the passenger seats, on their way to Wal Mart to spend the money allotted by local fundraisers. The cops looked as happy as the kids. Maybe happier.

I just hope the bad guys behave for a couple of hours.

147 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:57:06am

re: #144 eneri

The frightening part is the number of ignorant people who are proud of their ignorance.

And exactly who are you talking about? Name names please? We are waiting in anticipation.

148 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:57:51am

re: #144 eneri

The frightening part is the number of ignorant people who are proud of their ignorance.

The frightening part is you assuming

149 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:58:37am

re: #113 marjoriemoon

Although not agreeing with everything Glick writes, I think she's terrific.


I agree. That is why I feel disheartened to hear she is AGW. Glick is smart, dynamic and tough in the mold of the early Zionist settlers.

150 Big Steve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:58:50am

re: #144 eneri

The frightening part is the number of ignorant people who are proud of their ignorance.

I am pretty ignorant about soccer and kind of proud of it.

151 gregb  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 10:59:38am

re: #13 Sharmuta

I'm not sure what cooling process he's talking about but NOAA had this report on the recent North American cooling trend:

North American 2008 Cooling Attributed to Natural Causes

That's so funny, I was just going to post the NOAA graph and point out that they say we've been in a cooling period since January, but I didn't want to get downdinged for being a smartass.

All data is as good as it's models. I spent 3 years at UCI doing theoretical game theory research in mathematical behavioral sciences. It's all about mapping empirical data onto computational models. That's the very first thing they teach you: make sure your mapping doesn't suck.

152 jaunte  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:00:11am

re: #139 HoosierHoops

Zero..Funny thing is..That story was shot down by Airtrans within 24 hrs...And yet they doubled down every day on it...

Someone must think that technique is working; doubling down on a shot-down story sounds like a lot of the nontroversies lately.

153 gregb  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:00:18am

re: #150 Big Steve

I am pretty ignorant about soccer and kind of proud of it.

It's just like football. Err...

154 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:00:27am

re: #142 Walter L. Newton

Information gleaned from a Greenland ice core by an international science team shows that two huge Northern Hemisphere temperature spikes prior to the close of the last ice age some 11,500 years ago were tied to fundamental shifts in atmospheric circulation.

Interesting. Greenland has had it's ups and downs over the century.

Temperatures in Greenland are tightly connected to the Gulf Stream (aka the Atlantic Conveyer). When it shuts down, it gets very cold very quickly. When it cranks up again, temperatures increase like a rocket.

155 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:01:14am

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

Probably why I resent them so much. I'm pushing forty and I don't even have a damn car!


Well, pray to God for a Cadillac or a deux chevaux.

156 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:01:47am

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

Debbie Schlussel went berserko on that, and kept her CONFIRMED notice up even after the airlines said the fella was not on the flight.

I can't even express my contempt for this jerk.

She and Geller should be besties if they aren't currently.

157 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:02:11am

re: #154 austin_blue

Temperatures in Greenland are tightly connected to the Gulf Stream (aka the Atlantic Conveyer). When it shuts down, it gets very cold very quickly. When it cranks up again, temperatures increase like a rocket.

You may want to let the scientist know, since I didn't see that explanation in the article. I knew someone on LGF could solve the problem.

158 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:03:12am

re: #155 Stuart Leviton

Well, pray to God for a Cadillac or a deux chevaux.

God has more important things on her plate. If I get something just for me, how about a job for my husband?

159 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:03:33am

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

The Norse settlements in Greenland lasted for about five hundred years, and it's clear from the archaelogical evidence that there was widespread starvation in the final years. Only the native Greenlanders were ever able to make a go of the place, and even they struggled to make it through the winter without losing too many people to the cold and the lack of food.

Actually the Norse were the natives (at least in their part of Greenland). The Dorset culture did not stretch that far south, and the Inuit (Thule) people encountered Norsemen when they arrived in Greenland. In other words: they were immigrants, driving away the Norse. But please don't mention this to Pat Buchanan.

Ironically, the Norse are likely to have disappeared as a result of a combination of climate change and an extreme conservatism that led to the failure to adopt; although others believe that the Inuit are entirely to blame, or that the Greenlander Norse left Vinland, i.e. America. Personally, I would guess some of them ended up becoming Inuits, as at least some Norse were taken as prisoners or slaves by the people they referred to as skrælingar (barbarians).

160 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:04:11am

re: #149 Stuart Leviton

I agree. That is why I feel disheartened to hear she is AGW. Glick is smart, dynamic and tough in the mold of the early Zionist settlers.

She's AGW? Or did you post that and I missed it hehe How odd.

161 HoosierHoops  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:05:11am

re: #150 Big Steve

I am pretty ignorant about soccer and kind of proud of it.

I saw a great Soccer movie the other day called Gracie.. It was about a high school girl trying to win a spot on the boy's team..Unlike many sports movies this one really got into how the game is played and how tough it is to be a soccer player..Hell I thought they were just running around kicking a ball..It is so much more than that...I gained a new respect for the game..
oh yea..Gracie made the team..and unlike typical feel good sports movies..This girl made it by blood and guts and sweat.

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:05:26am

re: #159 oslogin

Actually the Norse were the natives (at least in their part of Greenland). The Dorset culture did not stretch that far south, and the Inuit (Thule) people encountered Norsemen when they arrived in Greenland. In other words: they were immigrants, driving away the Norse. But please don't mention this to Pat Buchanan.

Ironically, the Norse are likely to have disappeared as a result of a combination of climate change and an extreme conservatism that led to the failure to adopt; although others believe that the Inuit are entirely to blame, or that the Greenlander Norse left Vinland, i.e. America. Personally, I would guess some of them ended up becoming Inuits, as at least some Norse were taken as prisoners or slaves by the people they referred to as skrælingar (barbarians).

There's some book out there that claims the Norse wouldn't eat fish, even when food levels reached starvation point. I can't figure this one out at all, since fish was the primary protein source in the rest of the Norse-speaking world.

163 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:05:38am

re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist

God has more important things on her plate. If I get something just for me, how about a job for my husband?

Have I told you I love you lately? lol ((hugs))

164 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:06:35am

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

I lived in downtown SF for about 6 months back in '94, had a great little studio a block off Van Ness at the base of Pacific Heights. I loved everything about it.

Except parking. I never realized the breathtaking obscenity inherent in the phrase "Street Sweeping 2-4 AM". Any other city, if you say "geez, I hadda walk 5 blocks to get to my car", people look at you like you have one lung. In SF, they know that a 5 block walk can be like a trip up and down the Rickies...

I sympathize, but count yer blessings...

165 HoosierHoops  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:08:02am

re: #164 Slap

I lived in downtown SF for about 6 months back in '94, had a great little studio a block off Van Ness at the base of Pacific Heights. I loved everything about it.

Except parking. I never realized the breathtaking obscenity inherent in the phrase "Street Sweeping 2-4 AM". Any other city, if you say "geez, I hadda walk 5 blocks to get to my car", people look at you like you have one lung. In SF, they know that a 5 block walk can be like a trip up and down the Rickies...

I sympathize, but count yer blessings...

Did you ever eat at Tommy's Joint?

166 albusteve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:09:14am

re: #160 marjoriemoon

She's AGW? Or did you post that and I missed it hehe How odd.

the entire issue has morphed into a bad comedy of labeling, fraud, maneuvering for profit, lying, promoting and zealotry...what a soap opera

167 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:09:21am

re: #164 Slap

Rickies...

Sigh. Gack. Pffft.

ROCKIES.

PIMF.

168 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:09:38am

re: #45 JasonA

Oh, I'm pretty sure it was done much earlier by others. Humans were smarter thousands of years ago than we give them credit for.


"Each generation imagines it self to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it."
-- George Orwell

169 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:10:07am

re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist

God has more important things on her plate. If I get something just for me, how about a job for my husband?

What does your husband do? I know a few recruiters in the bay area (having recently changed jobs myself) who aren't half bad (IT stuff...don't know if he's an IT guy or not).

170 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:10:12am

re: #142 Walter L. Newton

Information gleaned from a Greenland ice core by an international science team shows that two huge Northern Hemisphere temperature spikes prior to the close of the last ice age some 11,500 years ago were tied to fundamental shifts in atmospheric circulation.

Interesting. Greenland has had it's ups and downs over the century.

Another interesting excerpt from that article...

Both dramatic warming events were preceded by decreasing Greenland dust deposition, indicating higher tropical temperatures and significantly more rain falling on the deserts of Asia at the time, said White. The team believes the ancient tropical warming caused large, rapid atmospheric changes at the equator, the intensification of the Pacific monsoon, sea-ice loss in the north Atlantic Ocean and more atmospheric heat and moisture over Greenland and much of the rest of the Northern Hemisphere.

"Here we propose a series of events beginning in the lower latitudes and leading to changes in the ocean and atmosphere that reveal for the first time the anatomy of abrupt climate change," the authors wrote. White likened the abrupt shift in the Northern Hemisphere circulation pattern to shifts in the North American jet stream as it steers storms around the continent.

I wonder what caused the rapid atmospheric changes at the equator during that time?

171 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:11:19am

re: #165 HoosierHoops

Weekly, if not more frequently. Used to go in and watch baseball, just to hang out around the old geezers trading stories about the Seals...It's not the healthiest food, but hofbrau-style places are sure great for filling up cheap.

172 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:12:15am

re: #166 albusteve

the entire issue has morphed into a bad comedy of labeling, fraud, maneuvering for profit, lying, promoting and zealotry...what a soap opera

Maybe I should refine my "terrific" moniker then. I like when she speaks about Israel and Zionism and leave it at that.

173 darthstar  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:13:43am

re: #170 Walter L. Newton

I wonder what caused the rapid atmospheric changes at the equator during that time?

Volcanoes, aliens, or an exceptionally intense drum circle.

174 HoosierHoops  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:14:46am

re: #171 Slap

Weekly, if not more frequently. Used to go in and watch baseball, just to hang out around the old geezers trading stories about the Seals...It's not the healthiest food, but hofbrau-style places are sure great for filling up cheap.

Awesome..Me and a bunch of guys went there once and tried to drink ourselves around the world..Bad idea..You know that huge sign at the bar listing beer from from every country? We never got close..Thank Gawd for Bart

175 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:15:27am

re: #170 Walter L. Newton

I wonder what caused the rapid atmospheric changes at the equator during that time?

I think I bought my first SUV that year!

176 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:15:51am

re: #173 darthstar

Volcanoes, aliens, or an exceptionally intense drum circle.

My point being is Greenland evidently has had phases of warming before, why before humans could effect it. That seems to be a point missed on this thread.

177 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:15:58am

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

You may want to let the scientist know, since I didn't see that explanation in the article. I knew someone on LGF could solve the problem.

From:

[Link: corior.blogspot.com...]

"[Several microfossil studies showed that the] Atlantic "conveyor," which releases vast quantities of heat to the North Atlantic and sends immense volumes of water into the abyss, was shut down until the last ice age ended 14,000 years ago. In the absence of this key component, worldwide ocean circulation must have looked very different.

The sea and land evidence together points to a simultaneous change in the operation of the ocean and the atmosphere 14,000 years ago. The pattern of ocean circulation shifted dramatically; glaciers in both hemispheres began retreating, signaling global warming; and the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere started to rise to interglacial levels. We think these events indicate a major reorganization of the joint ocean-atmosphere system -- a jump from a glacial mode of operation to an interglacial mode. Indeed, we believe that abrupt jumps among several ocean-atmosphere modes may underlie glacial cycles in general."

178 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:16:14am

re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist

God has more important things on her plate. If I get something just for me, how about a job for my husband?


I understand that Iran is in need of nuclear scientists.

Sorry to hear about the unemployment. Plus, earlier I was hoping on setting someone up to do Janis Joplin's Mercedez Benz. I was feeling too playful and had lost sensitivity to your plight despite your brilliance and kindness.

179 albusteve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:18:08am

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

My point being is Greenland evidently has had phases of warming before, why before humans could effect it. That seems to be a point missed on this thread.

my understanding is...those changes are due to the weather, not the climate...a warmer gulfstream blew warmer air over the region...that should clear it up for you

180 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:18:43am

re: #177 austin_blue

From:

[Link: corior.blogspot.com...]

"[Several microfossil studies showed that the] Atlantic "conveyor," which releases vast quantities of heat to the North Atlantic and sends immense volumes of water into the abyss, was shut down until the last ice age ended 14,000 years ago. In the absence of this key component, worldwide ocean circulation must have looked very different.

The sea and land evidence together points to a simultaneous change in the operation of the ocean and the atmosphere 14,000 years ago. The pattern of ocean circulation shifted dramatically; glaciers in both hemispheres began retreating, signaling global warming; and the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere started to rise to interglacial levels. We think these events indicate a major reorganization of the joint ocean-atmosphere system -- a jump from a glacial mode of operation to an interglacial mode. Indeed, we believe that abrupt jumps among several ocean-atmosphere modes may underlie glacial cycles in general."

He is also a Jehovah's Witness who has a whole article on the coming end of the world and how scientist are wrong about many things.

See

[Link: corior.blogspot.com...]

Not much of an expert if you ask me.

181 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:19:39am

re: #179 albusteve

my understanding is...those changes are due to the weather, not the climate...a warmer gulfstream blew warmer air over the region...that should clear it up for you

There's a difference? If you read the article, the mystery is what caused the warming in the lower regions?

182 albusteve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:20:11am

re: #177 austin_blue

From:

[Link: corior.blogspot.com...]

"[Several microfossil studies showed that the] Atlantic "conveyor," which releases vast quantities of heat to the North Atlantic and sends immense volumes of water into the abyss, was shut down until the last ice age ended 14,000 years ago. In the absence of this key component, worldwide ocean circulation must have looked very different.

The sea and land evidence together points to a simultaneous change in the operation of the ocean and the atmosphere 14,000 years ago. The pattern of ocean circulation shifted dramatically; glaciers in both hemispheres began retreating, signaling global warming; and the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere started to rise to interglacial levels. We think these events indicate a major reorganization of the joint ocean-atmosphere system -- a jump from a glacial mode of operation to an interglacial mode. Indeed, we believe that abrupt jumps among several ocean-atmosphere modes may underlie glacial cycles in general."

how does the conveyor start up and shut down?

183 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:20:13am

re: #160 marjoriemoon

She's AGW? Or did you post that and I missed it hehe How odd.


Hi Marjorie, that is what I thought posting #53 was about. Then again it wouldn't be the first mistake I made in my life. Bless ya'.

184 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:20:22am

re: #47 negativ

So, you read an article about left-wing street vandals, then link to Wikipedia's article about left-wing street vandals--and it makes you apprehensive of Tea Partiers...? Why wouldn't it instead make you worried about more and worse Black Bloc-ers?

185 Slap  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:21:04am

re: #174 HoosierHoops

Me and a couple of friends tried that at a bar buried inside the Ku'Dorf in Berlin back in '84. First the Black & Tans, then we ran into Budwar and decided to stay for a while. Much to our chagrin, we weren't watching the time and ended up emerging AFTER the U-Bahn had stopped running for the night. Good thing we hadn't entirely drunk our cab fare...

186 albusteve  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:21:20am

re: #181 Walter L. Newton

There's a difference? If you read the article, the mystery is what caused the warming in the lower regions?

exactly...seems like a simple question

187 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:21:56am

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

re: #179 albusteve

my understanding is...those changes are due to the weather, not the climate...a warmer gulfstream blew warmer air over the region...that should clear it up for you

Yup ,, becauase the weather has nothing to do with the climate ,,, ((or is it the climate has nothing to do with weather ,,, no, wait ,,, climate has nothing to do with climate ,,, errr,,, weather has no effect on weather ,,, dddrrr)

/

188 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:23:41am

re: #184 The Sanity Inspector

ummm,, GLEN BECK!!
SARAH PALIN!!!
GEROGE BUSH !!!

189 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:24:25am

To work, theatre calls...

190 HoosierHoops  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:24:34am

re: #185 Slap

Great story!

191 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:26:10am

re: #182 albusteve

how does the conveyor start up and shut down?

The best theory is changes in salinity. Affects the density of the water and how it upwells or doesn't. These were all long wave natural cycles not affected by man. But increasing a forcing mechanism, like we have with CO2, to levels not seen in several millions of years is going to affect these long wave cycles. The question is how much and how fast.

192 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:26:24am

re: #64 sattv4u2

Once dated a lady from Texas. I'd classify her as a lush garden of eden, does that count!?!?

We'd have to see some peer-reviewed research, please.

193 Stuart Leviton  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:27:48am

I love you all! Bless every and each one of you!

194 abolitionist  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:27:54am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Decades we don't have. By that time, it'll be too late.

Quite apart from any considerations of climate/AGW controversies, we have mere decades (2 or so) for significantly transitioning our Western post-industrial economies away from heavy dependence on petroleum and natural gas for our power generation and transportation needs. For future generations, it is imperative that some of these resources be conserved for other increasingly diverse and precious applications.

Have you looked at your keyboard, monitor or mouse lately, and pondered, What's this made of? Your computer's motherboard? The IC's on it? Your medications? Ever think about all the insulation required for our power distribution and communications infrastructures?

195 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:28:17am

re: #0 Charles

Actually, the origin of the "green" in "Greenland" is somehat disputed. As you point out, Icelandic sagas attribute it to a Eiríkr rauði's marketing campaign (I'm sure he would have worked for Apple if he lived no); but that explanation might be a later invention. On some early maps Greenland was also called Gruntland ("Ground land"), possibly reffering to shallow bays ("grunn" is the Modern Norwegian word here, too).

Others used a variant - Engronelant - probably derived from the Danish cartographer Claudius Clavus, who was a bit of a humorist and created this verse to use for naming places in Greenland he had no clue about the name of:

Der bor en mand i en Grønlands å,
og Spjældebod monne han hedde.
Mer haver han af luseskind,
end han haver af flæsk hint fede.
Nord om driver sandet påny.

In Old Danish:
"Thær Boer Eeynh Manh Ij Eyn Groenenlandz Aa" - There lives a man by a Greenland river.

Also, it is not entirely impossible that Greenland was in fact named as Greenland because the coastal area at that time was a lot greener when the Norse arrived, before the Little Ice Age. Or the name might be a result of Green ice. Both explanations smell off folk etymology, but the point is that we don't really know.

What we do know - or should know - is that earlier climate change, an undeniable reality, hardly proves that AGW is not going on. And the cooling thing is just ridiculous.

196 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:29:07am

re: #95 Gus 802

Can't find it online, but the current print edition of Discover magazine has a good interview with geographer Mark Serreze, on the melting of arctic ice.

197 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:31:52am

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Interesting.

I have an in-law who has been a principal in the school system for many years, and I have my own experience with raising kids, but reading Gingrich and Sharpton one would think that they have zero experience.

There is no way one can expect schools to compensate for parents who could care less about their kids and the only way one can effectively allow those who want to learn is to remove those who don't. According to Gingrich the solution is to send them to "better" schools. The only way that may work to a degree Is because the ones who want to learn are the first to leave failing school, which is the same thing.

They don't want to address the issue of children having children except to say they should pray more.

198 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:34:53am

re: #150 Big Steve

I am pretty ignorant about soccer and kind of proud of it.

Soccer And You: A Primer

1. Soccer is a game played by children, many (but not all) of whom are cursed with helicopter parents.

The end.


Note: American "football" should be called "Hand Egg" because it primarily involves neither the feet, nor a ball. The primary purpose of Hand Egg is to sell awful American mass-produced beer.

Actual, Genuine Football is played by people who are far too hardcore to require special pads and helmets to protect their widdle head.

Australian Rules Football is the same as Actual, Genuine Football, except that there are apparently no rules. If someone is killed, they don't bother removing the corpse from the field until the game is over.

Contrast this to Baseball, which I believe is the most boring thing ever invented by the human brain. A guy stands on a mound of dirt and scratches his nutsack for 15 minutes. He hocks a loogie and shufles his feet around in the dirt. This is traditional, expected behavior. The coach, the team owner, and 37 other guys come up and talk to him for another 20 minutes. Nobody else has any idea what they're talking about. Eventually, after 7 or 8 commercials, the guy on the dirt hill throws a ball at a guy who is armed with a sort of cudgel. Sometimes, the guy with the cudgel uses it to try to hit the ball. Sometimes he just stands back and lets a guy catch it. That catcher-guy, by the way, is going to need some new knees in about 10 years if he persists in this line of work. Other times, the cudgel-weilding guy strikes the ball with the cudgel and then some other guys chase after the ball while the previously cudgel-armed guy drops his weapon and attempts to run around in a circle. Once this is complete, everyone stands around scratching their nutsack for 37 minutes, and the cycle begins anew.

I am not at all a sports fan, but I can sometimes get interested in some Actual, Genuine Football, and Australian Rules Football, and also Hockey.

But this Baseball and Hand Egg stuff, I'll never understand.

199 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:36:54am

re: #182 albusteve

how does the conveyor start up and shut down?

One theory is that large sudden melting of ice puts in enough fresh water to change the salinity balance in a part of the ocean. Fresh water has lower density and therefore stays on the surface instead of sinking down, thereby stopping the conveyor, for a time, or changing the areas where it changes direction, giving localized weather changes, like the little ice age in the north Atlantic, for example.

200 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:41:25am

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

There's some book out there that claims the Norse wouldn't eat fish, even when food levels reached starvation point. I can't figure this one out at all, since fish was the primary protein source in the rest of the Norse-speaking world.

Jared Diamond touches upon the fish-thing in his "Collapse". According to Diamond, the Norse - for some reason - insisted on cattle, which was not very suitable, and on sheep, which was better. If I remember correctly, he also refers to what is found in Old Norse trash heaps and what is not found there; but the book is at the bottom of some box in the loft, so maybe I've read that somewhere else.

There's quite an interesting debate about this over at Grist.com - which relates to the "But Greenland was green"-meme: [Link: www.grist.org...]

Another interesting debate is found here: [Link: tobyspeople.com...]

Once again, the problem is that we don't really know that much about why the Norse disappeared from Greenland. Although my favourite theory is climate change combined with cultural conservatism (which is also what Diamond proposes); it's far from the only one around. Almost the only thing we can say for sure is that the demise of the Greenlander Norse and the success of the "barbarians" surely must be painful for those, including the Nazis, who see Northern Europeans as some sort of superrace.

201 bosforus  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:44:02am

Just logged in.
Wow. What an absolute idiot Steele is. The right scoffs at the "the earth is cooling due to global warming" idea and now we have the "the supposed warming is part of the cooling process" argument. What complete and utter nonsense. And the Greenland thing. That's a jaw dropper. I guess he's not counting on anyone in his party having their curiosity piqued in the slightest as to how Greenland was actually named.

202 Basho  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:47:51am

Anyone know what noted climatologist Sarah Palin thinks of this?

203 What, me worry?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:02:18pm

re: #183 Stuart Leviton

Hi Marjorie, that is what I thought posting #53 was about. Then again it wouldn't be the first mistake I made in my life. Bless ya'.

hehe totally my bad. I figured I missed a thread or a link somewhere.

204 Surabaya Stew  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:02:39pm

re: #198 negativ

Disagree with your dislike of Baseball and American Football, but you did make me chuckle! Up-ding for that...

205 Canadhimmis  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:07:50pm

Steele appears to be incorrect re the etymology of the name Greenland (as Charles has pointed to). Nonetheless, Steele is correct about Greenland being much warmer during the early settlement period in the years 1000 to 1300, or so.

...from the very next paragraph that Charles links to at wikipedia:

At that time, the inner regions of the long fjords where the settlements were located were very different from today. Excavations show that there were considerable birch woods with birch trees up to 4 to 6 meters high in the area around the inner parts of the Tunuliarfik- and Aniaaq-fjords, the central area of the Eastern settlement, and the hills were grown with grass and willow brushes. This was due to the medieval climate optimum. The Norse soon changed the vegetation by cutting down the trees to use as building material and for heating and by extensive sheep and goat grazing during summer and winter. The climate in Greenland was much warmer during the first centuries of settlement but became increasingly colder in the 14th and 15th centuries with the approaching period of colder weather known as the Little Ice Age.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

in addition historical accounts state that present day Newfoundland was called Vinland by the Vikings.

also at wikipedia:
Eiríks saga rauða ( or the Saga of Erik the Red is a saga on the Norse exploration of North-America. The saga chronicles the events that led to Erik the Red's banishment to Greenland as well as Leif Ericson's discovery of Vinland the Good after his longship was blown off course. By geographical details, this place is thought to be present-day Newfoundland, and is likely the first European discovery of the American mainland, some five centuries before Christopher Columbus's journey.

The earliest etymology of "Vinland" is found in Adam of Bremen's 11th Century Latin Descriptio insularum Aquilonis ("Description of the Northern Islands"): "Moreover, he has also reported one island discovered by many in that ocean, which is called Winland, for the reason that grapevines grow there by themselves, producing the best wine." (Praeterea unam adhuc insulam recitavit a multis in eo repertam occeano, quae dicitur Winland, eo quod ibi vites sponte nascantur, vinum optimum ferentes). The implication is that the first element is Old Norse vín (Latin vinum), "wine".

This explanation is essentially repeated in the 13th-century Grœnlendinga saga, which provides a circumstantial account of the discovery of Vinland, and its being named from the grapes (vínber) found there.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

206 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:24:50pm

re: #205 Canadhimmis

The most common explanation for Vinland - at least here in Norway - is that it means "pasture" or "flat area", which also fits with other names such as Bjørgvin (old name for Bergen, Norway) and Granvin (a municipality by the Hardanger fjord) is that "vin" refers to "pastures". Sjælland (Zeeland) was also called "Viney" (Pasture Island), and there was a Anglo-Saxon village named Winlande, with the same etymology (today's Woolland, Dorset, England).

I'm inclined to believe that "wine-land" was wishful thinking and a later misinterpretation.

207 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:31:40pm

re: #205 Canadhimmis

Steele appears to be incorrect re the etymology of the name Greenland (as Charles has pointed to). Nonetheless, Steele is correct about Greenland being much warmer during the early settlement period in the years 1000 to 1300, or so.

I don't know how he could be "correct" about that, when he didn't say anything at all about it.

208 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:33:30pm

Let me add that "-vin" as in Bjørgvin is pronounced with a short i, not with a long one, as our modern-day word for "wine", vin (in old texts oftentimes written 'viin').

209 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 1:04:37pm

The Medieval Warming Period is an inconvenient truth and must be explained away by all means.

When tree rings do not match the desired data, they must be explained away.

When the absolute number of measuring stations globally has declined by a factor of around two thirds, this fact has to be ignored.

When historically, the design of measuring apparatus from country to country was far from uniform, this must not matter.

That a large percentage of vanished measuring stations were located in areas of climatic extremes, eg Siberia, this should not be mentioned.

That measuring stations even in the more politically stable and uniform USA over time have become hopelessly compromised by urban expansion and altered land usage, this means nothing.

That HadCRUT and NASA GISS fail to correlate with 30 years (+/-) of satellite/radiosonde data which, unlike weather station data, have been scrupulously audited, this is of no concern.

Years ago, in this blog (and many others) anyone who had doubts about Saddam's WMD was yelled down. Hans Blix was vilified because he disturbed the "consensus". Move on, nothing to see here.

Let's stop quoting ignorant shills from either side and get back to serious investigation and scientific discussion. We simply do not know enough yet about natural climate variability, about the amount aerosols, clouds, and ocean circulation contribute to the observed post-1970 warming, but we seem to know it all about the impact the increase of atmospheric CO2 concentration is supposed to have, even if CO2 radiation "warming the Earth" violates the second thermodynamic principle (the atmosphere is not a glass house).

Everyone seems to ask a lot about the "cui bono?" of the "denialists". It's time to look into the "cui bono?" of the alarmists.

Climate Change is big business.

210 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 1:34:49pm

re: #209 KSK


That's a lot of lies for one post, dude. You probably want to keep it to just a few per post, otherwise you just look like a bullshit fountain of talking points.

Can you explain why you believe in a conspiracy theory involving every government on earth, ever university on earth, and every major scientific body on earth?

211 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 1:36:51pm

Here we go again.

212 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 1:51:12pm
Can you explain why you believe in a conspiracy theory involving every government on earth, ever university on earth, and every major scientific body on earth?

I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

Did you know that "Carbon Trade" is a multi-billion business, estimated to grow into a multi-trillion business?

Did you know that all that pledged "aid" is no gift, but loans that have to be repaid with interests?

Did you know that selling "Green Technology" is a rapidly growing multi-billion business? (not that there's anything wrong with it)?

Re consensus:

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

"Hans von Storch, director of the Institute for Coastal Research, calls the climate change axis a "cartel." A colleague, Eduardo Zorita, went further and said the scientists implicated in the e-mails "should be barred" from future United Nations proceedings and warned that "the scientific debate has been in many instances hijacked to advance other agendas." One estimate from a free-market group says that 12 of the 26 scientists who wrote the relevant section of a U.N. global warming report are "up to their necks in ClimateGate."

Stop quoting ignorant right wing shills. Start investigating what scientists REALLY say.

I don't want a debate between Gore and Palin. I'd like a debate between two most prominent scientists. Those who are able to debate in terms that mere mortals can understand.

213 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 1:52:52pm

re: #211 Charles

Let's see what you will post about this in.. say 5 years?
When the hurlyburly's done?

214 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 1:54:01pm

re: #212 KSK

You do believe in conspiracy theories. Every major scientific body on earth, every university, and every government has acknowledged anthropogenic global warming. For your dumb-ass shit to be real, they'd all have to be colluding with each other in the biggest coverup in history.

I don't want a debate between Gore and Palin. I'd like a debate between two most prominent scientists. Those who are able to debate in terms that mere mortals can understand.

Great. Put two climatologists up there to debate, and the first thing they'll do is agree that anthropogenic global warming is real. Sounds good to me.

215 Jack Fate  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 2:02:29pm

KSK: Throwing a bunch of fallacious arguments at the wall is no way to convince anyone of your position. Copy/pasting talking point emails is also bad form when trying to have an honest?! debate.

216 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 2:23:47pm
Every major scientific body on earth, every university, and every government has acknowledged anthropogenic global warming.

This now makes up 90 % of the pro AGW arguments: "But they all agree on this!"

Except that they don't: If you do a research you'll find a number of petitions and appeals signed by hundreds, if not thousands of scientists who dispute that there is a consensus:

Here are a few samples:

[Link: www.cato.org...]
[Link: www.sepp.org...]
[Link: epw.senate.gov...]
[Link: www.canada.com...]
[Link: www.nationalcenter.org...]

And in Germany, a major survey among 239 German climatologists found that a broad consensus only exists that we live in fact in a warming period.

When it comes to the hockey stick theory, 35 % say it's the best approximation up to now. 10% believe it's refuted or outdated. 29% believe that nothing definite can be said about it and 26 did not answer. Consensus?

Re antropogenic: 46% of German climatologists believe that man is the major cause of the warming. 27% believe that man and nature are equally responsible. 11 % see nature as the major cause. 17% say that the question cannot be answered properly. Consensus?

217 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 2:43:46pm

re: #210 Obdicut

Feel free to pick one talking point. In fact, pick ANY talking point you prefer. Pick one you feel familiar with it. Voice it. Then let's debate it. Without insults.

218 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 2:44:40pm

The "hockey stick" graph was not only NOT "discredited," it was vindicated by two separate independent reviews:

[Link: www.realclimate.org...]

And not only that, similar graphs generated from unrelated sources of data also demonstrate the infamous hockey stick shape.

Your link dump to denial sites is pathetic.

219 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 3:18:21pm

some parts of the world are warming and some parts are cooling - thats why the moniker is "Climate Change"...

If the United Kingdom loses the warming Gulf Stream winds it will get quite cold... if that doesn't collapse and instead we get the medditeranean summers it will then warm.

The complexity of the whole thing is why people can get away with taking one point of one report one week - about cooling somewhere, and then take one report another week about warming somewhere else another week.
It's complicated and can not be boiled down to talking points.

220 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 3:23:48pm

Well Charles, of course life is easy if any scientists who does not agree with the "consensus" is a "denialist"

Doesn't matter how many they are.

Btw Hans von Storch who is asking for caution is not a "denialist" at all. He is a highly respected German climatologist leading a highly respected institute. He actually believes that man may be a factor.

"Based on the analyses presented in the original papers by Mann et al. and this newer supporting evidence, the committee finds it plausible that the Northern Hemisphere was warmer during the last few decades of the 20th century than during any comparable period over the preceding millennium."

[Link: www.realclimate.org...]

"Plausible"?

Since nobody can seriously dispute that there was a Medieval Warming Period in Europe (historical and cultural evidence is far too overwhelming), the hockey stick fans have attempted to gloss over it as a local phenomenon.

Which it wasn't. From all corners of the world, the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age clearly shows up in a variety of proxy indicators, proxies more representative of temperature than the inadequate tree rings used by Michael Mann.

Yes you will find studies vindicating Mann. As you will find studies NOT vindicating him.

There is no consensus on hockey stick.

221 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 4:08:28pm

re: #220 KSK

Yes you will find studies vindicating Mann. As you will find studies NOT vindicating him.

Name one.

222 Basho  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 4:20:40pm

re: #209 KSK


even if CO2 radiation "warming the Earth" violates the second thermodynamic principle

Please expand. It sounds absolutely stupid and I need a good laugh.

223 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 4:37:34pm

re: #209 KSK

Let's stop quoting ignorant shills from either side and get back to serious investigation and scientific discussion. We simply do not know enough yet about natural climate variability, about the amount aerosols, clouds, and ocean circulation contribute to the observed post-1970 warming, but we seem to know it all about the impact the increase of atmospheric CO2 concentration is supposed to have, even if CO2 radiation "warming the Earth" violates the second thermodynamic principle (the atmosphere is not a glass house).

You got it. This is the last time I quote you as an ignorant shill. That last sentence really takes the cake, in more ways than one.

224 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 4:38:37pm

re: #222 Basho

Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physics

Authors: Gerhard Gerlich, Ralf D. Tscheuschner
(Submitted on 8 Jul 2007 (v1), last revised 4 Mar 2009 (this version, v4))

Abstract: The atmospheric greenhouse effect, an idea that many authors trace back to the traditional works of Fourier (1824), Tyndall (1861), and Arrhenius (1896), and which is still supported in global climatology, essentially describes a fictitious mechanism, in which a planetary atmosphere acts as a heat pump driven by an environment that is radiatively interacting with but radiatively equilibrated to the atmospheric system. According to the second law of thermodynamics such a planetary machine can never exist. Nevertheless, in almost all texts of global climatology and in a widespread secondary literature it is taken for granted that such mechanism is real and stands on a firm scientific foundation. In this paper the popular conjecture is analyzed and the underlying physical principles are clarified. By showing that (a) there are no common physical laws between the warming phenomenon in glass houses and the fictitious atmospheric greenhouse effects, (b) there are no calculations to determine an average surface temperature of a planet, (c) the frequently mentioned difference of 33 degrees Celsius is a meaningless number calculated wrongly, (d) the formulas of cavity radiation are used inappropriately, (e) the assumption of a radiative balance is unphysical, (f) thermal conductivity and friction must not be set to zero, the atmospheric greenhouse conjecture is falsified.

225 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 4:42:17pm

re: #223 Naso Tang

Read the study before you insult people you don't agree with.

226 jaunte  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 4:49:15pm

Eli Rabett:
A formal reply to Gerlich and Tscheuschner

Contrary to the claims of G&T, I show here that:
1. An average surface temperature for a planet is perfectly well defined with or without rotation, and with or without infrared absorbing gases.

2. This average temperature is mathematically constrained to be less than the fourth root of the average fourth power of the temperature, and can in some circumstances (a planet with no or very slow rotation, and low surface thermal inertia) be much less.

3. For a planet with no infrared absorbing or reflecting layer above the surface (and no significant flux of internal energy), the fourth power of the surface temperature always eventually averages to a value determined by the incoming stellar energy flux and relevant reflectivity and emissivity parameters.

4. The only way the fourth power of the surface temperature can exceed this limit is to be covered by an atmosphere that is at least partially opaque to infrared radiation. This is the atmospheric greenhouse effect.

5. The measured average temperature of Earth’s surface is 33 degrees C higher than the limit determined by items (2) and (3). Therefore, Earth is proved to have a greenhouse effect of at least 33K.[Link: rabett.blogspot.com...]

227 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 5:07:47pm

re: #224 KSK

That asshole has obviously never been to Venus.

228 Jaerik  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 5:08:25pm

Knee-slapping laughter about Michael Steele aside, recently I've been wondering what, exactly, keeps him as Chairman of the RNC.

He doesn't seem to be particularly on-message most of the time, and even when he is, he's often rambling and gaffe-prone. You don't have to be a crazy liberal to scratch your head and wonder why he's still their chosen representative.

I'm insanely curious what bizarre, internal political mess has to be keeping him where he is.

229 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 5:09:14pm

re: #225 KSK

That asshole has obviously never been to Venus.

230 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 5:31:19pm

re: #226 jaunte

Eli Rabett:
A formal reply to Gerlich and Tscheuschner

It's easy to find out that the Gerlich and Tscheuschner is not just wrong, it's ludicrously, stupidly wrong.

Citing the second law of thermodynamics is such an elementary mistake, it almost boggles the mind. The Earth is NOT a closed system! When people try to pull this kind of crap, it's a dead giveaway that they're lying to you.

Very reminiscent of creationists, who also love to cite the second law, and are also stupidly wrong.

It's just pathetic that people are trying to promote this absolute nonsense at LGF.

231 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 5:40:08pm

He did say "greenhouse effect caused by CO2"

2nd Law of Thermodynamics stipulates that all bodies radiate but net heat flow is always from hot bodies to cool bodies (without the input of work), not the reverse.

The Earth has a cooling system. It constantly radiates warmth into space. If the Earth warms more, radiation increases likewise and with it the cooling. Global Warming can only occur if the increased cooling is compensated by increased heating. To cause "global warming" CO2 would have to be able to not only compensate the increased cooling, but to send more heating energy to the Earth. But CO2 cannot do this. From what I understand about CO2 a higher concentration of CO2 in the stratosphere may elevate the height where radiation is finally released into space but this has no consequences to warming the earth surface.

Warming and cooling is caused by local factors (clouds, moist or dry grounds, sun etc.)

232 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 5:41:03pm

KSK can verify his denial of the greenhouse effect (guess where the term comes from?) by building a greenhouse and trying to explain where the temperature differences come from. They could also go back to middle school and do the experiment with a couple of clear plastic bottles, some alka seltzer and a couple of thermometers, and the bonus is that they don't ever have to have heard of the laws of thermodynamics.

233 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 6:20:28pm

re: #231 KSK

You completely miss the issue of temperature in your dissertation on radiation, as well as answering how a greenhouse can then be warmer than its surroundings even as the glass is a poor insulator.

The greenhouse effect, whether in a greenhouse or a planet, is very simple and violates no laws. Incoming radiation at higher frequencies is converted to lower frequencies when it interacts with matter. Light to infrared in other words. Lower frequencies, infrared, that we call heat, is preferentially absorbed by some substances over others. Specifically substances like CO2 or methane (which is even more so than CO2, but less stable).

That means that energy from visible light is converted to infrared when it re radiates, and is then also absorbed and re radiated by CO2, whereas the original visible light passed straight through. The infrared will eventually makes its way back to space, but at a much slower rate than the visible light coming in. That means a buildup of an excess of heat retention over the incoming until the temperature rises enough to increase the outflow to an equilibrium point.

In effect, there is a blanket on the earth, as opposed to say the moon, which is why it stays warm. Simple kitchen experiments can verify the different effects of different gases in that regard.

Why don't you try some, since you believe nothing smarter people have discovered?

234 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 6:24:57pm

re: #230 Charles

My God Charles, do you have ANYTHING to reply but insults and - this time - non sequitors?

Who ever said that the Earth was a closed system? Of course it's not. The sun is sending trillions of watts into it all the time.

The IPCC states this:
1. A warm body (the earth) radiates heat to a cool body (the atmosphere)
2. The cool body “back-radiates” (IPCC term) heat to the warm body.
3. This process continues perpetually, with heat flowing round and round in a continuous cycle.
4. The result of this perpetual process is that the warm body becomes warmer.

This is a flagrant violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

Now I'm very willing to concede that things are more complicated because what's going on in the different layers of the Earth's atmosphere is extremely complicated and not fully explored (that's also the weakness in the study I quoted)

CO2 is almost completely irrelevant in the lower atmosphere which already captures all the planet surface’s radiation at the frequencies where CO2 is relevant (almost entirely by water vapor, not CO2). The higher up you go (where there is less water vapor), more CO2 could mean more absorption, but the effect on the Earth's surface is absolutely minimal.

When dinosaurs roamed the Earth CO2 concentration in the atmosphere was up to 20times higher than today. Indeed it was warmer then than today, but a warmer climate produces more CO2 so that's not really surprising.

The Earth still managed to reach the next ice age without human interference.

What the study I quoted wants is to question things, not "deny" them. As you see there are studies supporting claims and studies refuting claims.

This shows that there is no consensus yet or that the supposed consensus is forced upon us for reasons we can only speculate about. To claim that we already understood what goes on in the atmosphere, close debate and vilify anyone who dissents a "denialist" is a rather medieval concept of scientific debate.

Btw: Your obsession with labeling any "denialist" a "creationist" also is frankly ridiculous. I'm an agnostic. I am always willing to learn, but also to question. Maybe I can be convinced to believe that AGW is a dire threat to mankind and that we must (and actually can) do something and that the enormous sacrifices and the trillions spent on it are actually reasonable. But when ideology takes over (unfortunately on both sides), that makes it harder.

The fact that you, Charles, have "abandoned the right wing" does not give you the right to smear everyone including me who has never been right wing (or left wing) in the first place.

Years ago you attacked anyone who would not agree with your Iraq position (WMD etc) as a "LLL" or "moonbat". You never bothered to revise your views you had then. Tempi passati.

Now you attack everyone who has questions about AGW as a "creationist", a "right winger" etc.

You have changed camps but not methods.

235 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 6:26:28pm

re: #232 Naso Tang

I DON'T DENY the greenhouse effect, I question whether it's applicable for CO2.
The greenhouse is not warmed by CO2

236 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 6:47:15pm

re: #235 KSK

I DON'T DENY the greenhouse effect, I question whether it's applicable for CO2.
The greenhouse is not warmed by CO2

What's it warmed by, then?

237 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:01:09pm

re: #236 Obdicut

For the earth? Overwhelmingly by water vapor, clouds...

The traditional greenhouse? It heats up because the warm air is trapped within the greenhouse and the sun continues to warm it further.

Outside warm air near the surface rises and mixes with cooler air aloft.

238 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:01:47pm

re: #237 KSK

The traditional greenhouse? It heats up because the warm air is trapped within the greenhouse and the sun continues to warm it further.

What, specifically, is trapping the heat in the greenhouse?

239 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:06:06pm

re: #234 KSK

The IPCC states this:
1. A warm body (the earth) radiates heat to a cool body (the atmosphere)
2. The cool body “back-radiates” (IPCC term) heat to the warm body.
3. This process continues perpetually, with heat flowing round and round in a continuous cycle.
4. The result of this perpetual process is that the warm body becomes warmer.

This is a flagrant violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

OK, I violate my earlier post about quoting you, but I have to in order to give you an F (Bullshit) on your conclusion.

Your points 1-4 are otherwise correct, except that you never read the chapters on heat absorption factors.

240 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:07:38pm

re: #238 Obdicut

The traditional greenhouse? It heats up because the warm air is trapped within the greenhouse and the sun continues to warm it further.

What, specifically, is trapping the heat in the greenhouse?

Flying fairies?//

241 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:08:24pm

re: #240 Naso Tang

Flying fairies?//

Anything other than CO2, I'm guessing will be his answer.

242 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:19:08pm

re: #241 Obdicut

Of it's not CO2 that's trapping the heat in the greenhouse, jeez.

The glass or plastic sheets, of course, which prevents the warm air from exchange with cooler air. Open the roof a little and the temperature will drop.

CO2 has nothing to do with it.

243 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:19:49pm

re: #241 Obdicut

Anything other than CO2, I'm guessing will be his answer.

He doesn't think different gasses have different properties in regard to electromagnetic energy absorption, but that's what comes from cut and paste knowledge these days. If he had been forced to read a book and manually rewrite an explanation even he might have understood. Damned computers and Google are making us dumber, not smarter.

244 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:21:51pm

re: #242 KSK

Of it's not CO2 that's trapping the heat in the greenhouse, jeez.

The glass or plastic sheets, of course, which prevents the warm air from exchange with cooler air. Open the roof a little and the temperature will drop.

CO2 has nothing to do with it.

You know, I detected more intelligence than that in your earlier posts. Now I know you are just a troll.

Moving on. Bye.

245 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:27:16pm

re: #244 Naso Tang

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that CO2 causes the warming in the traditional greenhouse???

Find me ONE quote for that.

246 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 8:03:58pm

re: #245 KSK

Increasing CO2 in a greenhouse increases the temperature. Basic physics.

You're a poor troll.

247 doubter4444  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 8:07:15pm

re: #60 Seltzer123

Do you really want to know how deep the rabbit hole goes? Take a look a look at the fox news climate "quiz"

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The "correct" answers can be seen by clicking on the "view results" tags.

This thread maybe dead, so most won't see this but
This is one question and answer on the quiz
9. Is the hole in the ozone layer growing?
No. The Earth's natural sunscreen, a layer of ultraviolet-reflecting ozone in the stratosphere, has been heavily depleted in the area above Antarctica. But the damage appears to be neutralized as the size of the "hole" itself has stabilized and the amount of ozone has stopped falling. Scientists hope that a 1989 ban on chemicals that were depleting the ozone layer will lead to a recovery by 2040.

Ummm is it just me, or were we able to effect change before (remember Acid rain?) over man-made pollution, and it did not bust us, and in fact it HELPED THE WORLD.
Why can't we do it this time?
Why is it a"conspiracy" to even think that GW exists? To hell with the A part of AGW, if that's a button, concentrate on doing something.

I mean shown right there, there was a problem noticed; we figured out how to help ameliorate the problem; we acted; and the situation is improving.
So, in a nutshell, is the answer to the entire issue: (as many have said):
There is a problem, address the cause and implement changes.
It does not need to break the bank, in fact, it can't break the bank, or else we won't have the financial resources to fix the problem.

248 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 8:13:46pm

re: #246 Obdicut

Puhleeze

Find me ONE quote for that. Just ONE.
Increasing CO2 in a greenhouse stimulates growth of plants but certainly not the temperature inside the greenhouse.

249 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 8:17:11pm

re: #248 KSK

Puhleeze

Find me ONE quote for that. Just ONE.
Increasing CO2 in a greenhouse stimulates growth of plants but certainly not the temperature inside the greenhouse.

Okay.

It was discovered in 1859.

250 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 8:29:01pm

re: #249 Obdicut

No
You are confusing the "greenhouse effect" which goes on in the atmosphere with the warming that goes on in the greenhouse.

The warming in the greenhouse has different reasons.

251 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 8:30:37pm

re: #250 KSK

You asked for me to show you that CO2 increase in a greenhouse increases warmth.

I did so.

The reason it's called the 'greenhouse effect' is because it's analogous in the atmosphere.

You're a very poor troll. Next time, don't deny basic physics.

252 KSK  Sat, Dec 12, 2009 8:34:30pm

re: #251 Obdicut

Don't you read the texts you post?

This was the effect that would later be called, by an inaccurate analogy, the "greenhouse effect."

Now why would that be an inaccurate analogy?

253 Basho  Sun, Dec 13, 2009 12:26:34pm

re: #252 KSK

Don't you read the texts you post?

This was the effect that would later be called, by an inaccurate analogy, the "greenhouse effect."

Now why would that be an inaccurate analogy?

Dude, seriously, stfu. Whether greenhouse effect is an accurate term or not is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT. Nature doesn't stop functioning because humans misused word. It might impress the uninformed and ignorant but it shows that you have no knowledge on this issue. What exactly do you gain by sticking to demonstrably false ideas?

254 fortescue  Sun, Dec 13, 2009 2:14:53pm

I enjoyed the link to Greenland's wiki site. sure shows us how island was named.

Also interesting was the temperature chart at side, showing the cyclical nature of warming over the last millennium.

also of interest was the commentary right after Charles reference to how the island was named.

seems to me there used to be trees? and a much warmer climate then today.

does this mean the warming of Greenland is not unprecedented?

Does anyone know where I can find a temperature profile of Greenland for the last 20 years (since 19900 when the graph seems to end) curious as to what the temperatures have done.

I am a little confused are we not supposed to be in the midst of unprecedented warming?


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