Yon: The Battle for Kandahar
World • Views: 2,317
Michael Yon: Arghandab & The Battle for Kandahar. Just go read it.
124 comments
1 |
The Curmudgeon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:55:13am |
"The Battle for Kandahar" is probably the most ...well, romantic expression in the entire history of warfare. There's no place in Afghanistan worthy of such a glorious-sounding name, but there it is. Go for it!
| 2 |
Ericus58 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:58:52am |
Yon has my respect and appreciation. His insights and reporting are without equal, imo.
| 3 |
Political Atheist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:59:51am |
Michael Yon deserves the support he asks for. He is the premier photo comabt journalist these days. Better than anyone else in my opinion.
| 4 |
Joo-LiZ Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:03:21am |
I just read this on his site before coming here -- GMTA?
My one qualm is the way he describes the Canadian Mission.
I have always wished that Michael could embed with the Canadians, or there was SOME sort of resource like Yon/Totten that could give a better perspective of what is actually going on with the Canadian forces, and how they are faring in the war in Afghanistan.
I just can't shake the feeling Yon is reporting in that way out of bitterness for the fact the Canadians are pulling out. I want to hear more about what they accomplished while being there.
| 5 |
Ericus58 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:04:54am |
Totten does some bang-up work also, I shouldn't leave him out either.
| 6 |
Lawrior Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:04:58am |
re: #3 Rightwingconspirator
Agreed. His twitter feed is great for snapshot views of what is going on out there, and he has responded to questions that I've had for him.
| 7 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:12:41am |
Am reading. Wanted to share my reading music.
| 8 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:32:58am |
re: #4 Joo-LiZ
I agree with your assessment. From Yon's report:
Some people believe the Canadians have been militarily defeated in their battlespace. No US officer has told me that the Canadians have been defeated, and none have denied it.
On current course, Canada will have fully retreated by 2011.
This is yellow journalism.
"Some people believe..."?
"...none have denied it"?
WTF. Yon can do better than this.
| 9 |
Obdicut Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:33:27am |
| 10 |
A Man for all Seasons Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:36:41am |
Heading out to the Colts Party..
See you folks later..GO COLTS!
| 12 |
Ericus58 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:41:42am |
re: #9 Obdicut
very Impressive!! She really attacks that keyboard.
| 14 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:53:21am |
| 15 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:55:21am |
re: #13 Alouette
Where'd everybody go?
I am reading Mr. Yon's excellent piece. I liked this part:
The guerrillas were having a hard time killing Soviet vehicles. The mujahideen became dispirited and were ready to retreat. But then Akhtarjhan’s Senior Commander, Mullah Naqib, said, “This is their last battle and will decide the battle between them and us. They’ve tried to conquer the base for years and this is their last throw.”
Mullah Naqib strode out to fight alone, and his courage rallied the commanders behind him. After 34 days the Soviets were defeated and retreated.
Of global significance, in what is perhaps ultimate Cosmic Justice, Soviet barbarity was a great factor leading to the downfall of the empire.
Mullah Naqib would become a leader of much influence and would later become helpful to us against the Taliban, who tried unsuccessfully to kill Mullah Naqib. Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack in October 2007. Demonstrating the fragility of the situation, Naqib’s death was a major setback for Kandahar city security and left an opening for the Taliban. President Karzai appointed Mullah Naqib’s son to take over, but he is deemed both inexperienced and unable to handle the task.
| 17 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:58:51am |
And I really like this:
The enemy is not defeated, but our people were now operating among them. U.S. casualties continued during the next three months but there are indications that the enemy is today in disarray. The enemy became afraid to sleep indoors where they might be killed by an airstrike—or by U.S. soldiers, who have a tendency to burst in during periods of maximum REM sleep. The Taliban were terrorized and began sleeping in the orchards at night, rigging homes with explosives, which they arm at night. (I’ve heard similar reports from Pakistan. Pakistanis have said that drone strikes are demoralizing and terrorizing the Taliban, and though drone strikes are controversial, some Pakistanis want to see the strikes increased.)
Hooray for technology!
| 18 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:02:59am |
re: #17 Sharmuta
Yeah, drones are a game-changer. It HAS to be depressing to watch comrades get hunted down without the enemy ever having to put their own side at risk.
| 19 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:04:12am |
Pomegranate trees represent major long-term investments for farmers. The trees take 5-7 years to mature and are productive for about 50 years. The harvest occurs between about the first week of October to mid-November. This is important because the trees are thick and provide good tactical cover for the Taliban, making them difficult to spot from the air, explaining why they sleep in the orchards at night. This angers farmers; the Taliban plant bombs in the orchards, using their livelihoods for cover and concealment, and fighting during harvest season. Bombs kill trees.[snip]
The Taliban in Arghandab got a serious whipping but they are not dead. The winter season is providing our side a brief opportunity to earn local support with various projects in a relatively unmolested environment, while the snowbirds are in Pakistan, no doubt plotting their return.
As it was in Iraq- the Afghanis need to see we are not occupiers, but rather we are friends who want to help. Hopefully, this winter will find our troops able to get the support of the Afghans in the area, and their orchards will be safe.
| 20 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:04:45am |
I'm surprised more from the Right aren't praising the surge as they did with Bush or maybe they're whispering praise behind closed doors lest anyone mistake it for Obama love. Shudder the thought...
No one knows the ultimate outcome of these wars. It would be enough to crush Al-Queda and the Taliban, but as Yon points out, they are mostly in Pakistan. In fact, the President said the same. My question is what will happen after the surge, even if it is successful and I imagine it will be. How do you keep the country from corruption? Harder questions.
| 21 |
brookly red Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:07:21am |
re: #18 Aceofwhat?
Yeah, drones are a game-changer. It HAS to be depressing to watch comrades get hunted down without the enemy ever having to put their own side at risk.
Not to mention the intelligence, always near & always watching & not a freaking thing you can do about it.
| 22 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:10:13am |
re: #21 brookly red
Not to mention the intelligence, always near & always watching & not a freaking thing you can do about it.
As long as we keep the Russians from giving them stinger-skis.
| 23 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:11:52am |
re: #20 marjoriemoon
I'm surprised more from the Right aren't praising the surge as they did with Bush or maybe they're whispering praise behind closed doors lest anyone mistake it for Obama love. Shudder the thought...
No one knows the ultimate outcome of these wars. It would be enough to crush Al-Queda and the Taliban, but as Yon points out, they are mostly in Pakistan. In fact, the President said the same. My question is what will happen after the surge, even if it is successful and I imagine it will be. How do you keep the country from corruption? Harder questions.
The same formula that was used in Germany and Japan post WW2, and is still to this day happening in Iraq. You keep visible and viable presence there, helping the new or existing government and self security form.
You do NOT announce that you're leaving on day "X", (or as John Kerry used to bellow, a date certain) Sorry, wars aren't football games. They don't work with a time clock. The "other" side usually isn't on the same schedule as you are!
| 24 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:12:00am |
re: #20 marjoriemoon
Anti-corruption measures were among the things President Obama said would be implemented in Afghanistan. Hopefully, those measures will help the Afghans well after we've left. We have a lot of work to do to teach them to keep their own peace, and secure their own happiness. I still have faith we can do it.
| 25 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:12:02am |
re: #21 brookly red
exactly. makes me smile.
re: #20 marjoriemoon
on the right (or was, before others left it in tatters). praising Obama is what i hope to be doing, because it will mean that we've succeeded over there.
the real question is, how much company do i have with that statement on the 'right'. not sure i want to find out.
| 26 |
Four More Tears Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:16:02am |
Guitar Hero on the side of your house:
| 27 |
brookly red Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:16:52am |
re: #22 Decatur Deb
As long as we keep the Russians from giving them stinger-skis.
They fly pretty high & are hard to see even in the daytime. But even if someone did manage to take one down it's still just a drone. No loss of life, no captured pilot, no propaganda tapes.
| 29 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:18:39am |
re: #22 Decatur Deb
As long as we keep the Russians from giving them stinger-skis.
Eh. The north koreans were nice enough to show the downsides of living on Russian hand-me-downs!
| 30 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:22:22am |
re: #17 Sharmuta
And I really like this:
Hooray for technology!
Unmanned drones are a huge game-changer for the military. The enemy is up against an enemy they simply can't see, hear or fight, and even if they had the means to shoot one down, we'd just lob another one up there with no cost in manpower to our side. Meanwhile, our pilots and weapons team are thousands of miles away - often back in the states - as far from harm as possible.
Horribly demoralizing for the enemy.
| 31 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:23:00am |
re: #27 brookly red
They fly pretty high & are hard to see even in the daytime. But even if someone did manage to take one down it's still just a drone. No loss of life, no captured pilot, no propaganda tapes.
True. They are expensive relative to a SAM, and our commanders would feel a void for a while.
| 32 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:24:21am |
re: #17 Sharmuta
The enemy became afraid to sleep indoors where they might be killed by an airstrike—or by U.S. soldiers, who have a tendency to burst in during periods of maximum REM sleep.
And all this time I've been told by Kerry and Murtha that its a BAD thing that our soldiers burst in in the dead of night.
'Magine that!
| 33 |
brookly red Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:25:37am |
re: #32 sattv4u2
The enemy became afraid to sleep indoors where they might be killed by an airstrike—or by U.S. soldiers, who have a tendency to burst in during periods of maximum REM sleep.
And all this time I've been told by Kerry and Murtha that its a BAD thing that our soldiers burst in in the dead of night.
'Magine that!
times change...
| 34 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:26:05am |
re: #29 Aceofwhat?
Eh. The north koreans were nice enough to show the downsides of living on Russian hand-me-downs!
Their best stuff is often good enough. This war can be prolonged by robots, but won't be won by them. Our best weapons in a culture war might be proper application of sex, drugs, booze, and rock'n'roll.
| 35 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:26:49am |
| 36 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:27:17am |
re: #34 Decatur Deb
Their best stuff is often good enough. This war can be prolonged by robots, but won't be won by them. Our best weapons in a culture war might be proper application of sex, drugs, booze, and rock'n'roll.
Deploy TED NUGENT!
| 37 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:27:38am |
BBL ,,, the locusts are looking for breakfast #2
| 38 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:29:32am |
re: #36 sattv4u2
Hold Keith Richards as the Doomsday weapon.
| 39 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:31:07am |
re: #23 sattv4u2
The same formula that was used in Germany and Japan post WW2, and is still to this day happening in Iraq. You keep visible and viable presence there, helping the new or existing government and self security form.
You do NOT announce that you're leaving on day "X", (or as John Kerry used to bellow, a date certain) Sorry, wars aren't football games. They don't work with a time clock. The "other" side usually isn't on the same schedule as you are!
Unfortunately it doesn't work if you skip the part of war which precedes the "post-war", which is to destroy their fighters and their capacity and will to fight by application of massive and overwhelming force.
| 40 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:31:50am |
re: #32 sattv4u2
The enemy became afraid to sleep indoors where they might be killed by an airstrike—or by U.S. soldiers, who have a tendency to burst in during periods of maximum REM sleep.
And all this time I've been told by Kerry and Murtha that its a BAD thing that our soldiers burst in in the dead of night.
'Magine that!
When we first arrived in Afghanistan, there was a battle over a fairly large city being mounted - I forget which one - and the press was reporting that we kept dropping bombs just outside the populated area, basically in the surrounding dirt. Many sniggered and guffawed over this "incompetence" until our troops rolled in a week later and took the city completely unopposed. Turns out that having 500 pounders going off every few minutes a few hundred yards away makes sleep absolutely impossible. And after just a few days without sleep, a person is reduced to a state of severe delusion and hallucination bad enough that they'll start shooting their own shadows. Apparently, they were running out into the street and surrendering passionately to any passing vehicle - even bicycles - long before we ever rolled in at all.
| 41 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:39:54am |
re: #40 SixDegrees
(snip)Turns out that having 500 pounders going off every few minutes a few hundred yards away makes sleep absolutely impossible. And after just a few days without sleep, a person is reduced to a state of severe delusion and hallucination bad enough that they'll start shooting their own shadows. (snip)
When I did Army stuff, I noticed Army aviators handled the clock very well, ground commanders less so. Once watched a CPT melt into a blithering idiot in a task force operations center because she resisted sleep discipline.
| 42 |
brookly red Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:40:36am |
re: #40 SixDegrees
When we first arrived in Afghanistan, there was a battle over a fairly large city being mounted - I forget which one - and the press was reporting that we kept dropping bombs just outside the populated area, basically in the surrounding dirt. Many sniggered and guffawed over this "incompetence" until our troops rolled in a week later and took the city completely unopposed. Turns out that having 500 pounders going off every few minutes a few hundred yards away makes sleep absolutely impossible. And after just a few days without sleep, a person is reduced to a state of severe delusion and hallucination bad enough that they'll start shooting their own shadows. Apparently, they were running out into the street and surrendering passionately to any passing vehicle - even bicycles - long before we ever rolled in at all.
I wonder if it could be done today now that sleep deprivation has been declared torture?
| 43 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:41:45am |
re: #40 SixDegrees
When we first arrived in Afghanistan, there was a battle over a fairly large city being mounted - I forget which one - and the press was reporting that we kept dropping bombs just outside the populated area, basically in the surrounding dirt. Many sniggered and guffawed over this "incompetence" until our troops rolled in a week later and took the city completely unopposed. Turns out that having 500 pounders going off every few minutes a few hundred yards away makes sleep absolutely impossible. And after just a few days without sleep, a person is reduced to a state of severe delusion and hallucination bad enough that they'll start shooting their own shadows. Apparently, they were running out into the street and surrendering passionately to any passing vehicle - even bicycles - long before we ever rolled in at all.
Was it Kabul? I thought we took the capitol easily.
| 45 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:51:02am |
re: #43 Sharmuta
Was it Kabul? I thought we took the capitol easily.
Don't recall. I remember the tactic, but not the location.
| 46 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:51:17am |
re: #42 brookly red
I wonder if it could be done today now that sleep deprivation has been declared torture?
Now that the Environmental Protection Agency has declared carbon dioxide a health hazard, I wonder if we can breath on them !?!?
| 48 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:53:50am |
re: #42 brookly red
I wonder if it could be done today now that sleep deprivation has been declared torture?
I dunno. It was never announced that such was our intention. It was obvious, given past experience with our precision bombing, that we weren't blowing holes in the unoccupied countryside because we were screwups. And the reported rate of bombing - one every 10 or 15 minutes, at random intervals - likewise suggests that, er, "fatigue" was the objective.
| 49 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:59:04am |
Excellent reporting Mr. Yon, thank you!
Its interesting to watch the flip in support for the war in Afghanistan. There are now many idiots on the right who no longer have a desire to see American success in Afghanistan. It would mean cooperation and aid to the Afghanistan people, and we can't have that now can we.
| 50 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:59:58am |
Anyone know what percentage of CO2 is being emitted by household pets?
Every bark you make,
Every meow you take,
Every chirp you sing,
Every squeak you bring,
I'll be watching you.
| 51 |
brookly red Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:00:09am |
re: #48 SixDegrees
I dunno. It was never announced that such was our intention. It was obvious, given past experience with our precision bombing, that we weren't blowing holes in the unoccupied countryside because we were screwups. And the reported rate of bombing - one every 10 or 15 minutes, at random intervals - likewise suggests that, er, "fatigue" was the objective.
I suppose it is an effective tactic, I just hope that the decisions weather or not to use it are made by military types & not political types.
| 52 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:00:31am |
Peace between America and Afghanistan will come when both sides understand that a healthy, stable economy in Afghanistan is crucial to everyone. It may take decades, but is worth the investment.
| 53 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:01:14am |
re: #49 Racer X
Excellent reporting Mr. Yon, thank you!
Its interesting to watch the flip in support for the war in Afghanistan. There are now many idiots on the right who no longer have a desire to see American success in Afghanistan. It would mean cooperation and aid to the Afghanistan people, and we can't have that now can we.
It would mean success for Obama, and that's what they don't want. Heaven forbid any American successes reflect well on our President, regardless of his politics. It's about as un-American a position I can think of.
| 54 |
MandyManners Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:01:49am |
re: #52 Racer X
Peace between America and Afghanistan will come when both sides understand that a healthy, stable economy in Afghanistan is crucial to everyone. It may take decades, but is worth the investment.
It's not just America but, the rest of the world.
| 55 |
Jeff In Ohio Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:02:05am |
Interesting read. I look forward to spending some more time with it. Here's the thing that immediately stuck out for me:
"Russians say we repeat their mistakes but they are wrong. The Soviets employed true scorched-earth tactics—the same tactics that many armchair commanders at home would like to employ."
I think about this notion every time I read or talk with someone proclaiming we should just march in and start shooting. As if urban America is that easy, let alone Afghanistan. This is going to be a hard slog with no guarantees, I know with a clear mission, adequate supplies and good commanders, our armed forces are up to the task. It's the pols and people I worry about.
| 56 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:02:16am |
re: #53 Sharmuta
It would mean success for Obama, and that's what they don't want. Heaven forbid any American successes reflect well on our President, regardless of his politics. It's about as un-American a position I can think of.
They are becoming the crazy left of 6 years ago.
| 57 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:02:49am |
re: #54 MandyManners
It's not just America but, the rest of the world.
Yes, thank you for clarifying that.
| 58 |
brookly red Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:03:25am |
re: #52 Racer X
Peace between America and Afghanistan will come when both sides understand that a healthy, stable economy in Afghanistan is crucial to everyone. It may take decades, but is worth the investment.
I think it may go deeper than just the economy.
| 59 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:04:08am |
re: #51 brookly red
I suppose it is an effective tactic, I just hope that the decisions weather or not to use it are made by military types & not political types.
One apparent good outcome of Vietnam has been the realization by all the Presidents to follow that they need to let the military do their job and not attempt to micromanage them. Tell 'em what you want done, given them constraints if you feel they're necessary, and let them tell you if what you're asking can be accomplished with the resources you're providing. Then listen.
| 61 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:07:09am |
re: #56 Racer X
They are becoming the crazy left of 6 years ago.
Well- at least the crazy left is still opposed to the war because that was their position before. The crazy right was against it too because they are isolationists. But now we have people who are supporting or not supporting the surge/war simply based off who the President is, and I find that to be a very shallow justification for one's position on Afghanistan- it's a different level of crazy.
I supported our efforts in Afghanistan under President Bush, and I support our President's decision now. Let's roll!
| 62 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:07:13am |
re: #56 Racer X
They are becoming the crazy left of 6 years ago.
Baloney. The right wants to win the war and they support the troops. The lefties are barely choking back their vomit at Obama's betrayal.
| 63 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:07:15am |
re: #56 Racer X
They are becoming the crazy left of 6 years ago.
That's quite deliberate. Malkin, et al, have explicitly said they're mimicking the actions of the Left because they view them as having been successful. They seem to be ignorant that such tactics caused the Democrats to lose elections that they easily should have won, and that it was only when they locked their crazy uncles back in the attic and started acting rationally again that they started winning again.
Despite being badly mistaken about the success of such tactics, though, their adoption is intentional.
| 64 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:07:35am |
re: #59 SixDegrees
Another good effect is that presidents don't automatically believe everything a 4-star says.
| 65 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:08:50am |
re: #62 Spare O'Lake
Baloney. The right wants to win the war and they support the troops. The lefties are barely choking back their vomit at Obama's betrayal.
I just checked. I'm not choking.
| 67 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:10:04am |
re: #62 Spare O'Lake
Baloney. The right wants to win the war and they support the troops. The lefties are barely choking back their vomit at Obama's betrayal.
Overall, I agree. But there have been some prominent voices on the Right calling for a cut-and-run approach in Afghanistan, calling it a "quagmire" and otherwise mimicking the Left's opposition of years gone by. I agree that, so far, it isn't widespread or mainstream, but it isn't unheard of, either.
| 68 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:11:43am |
re: #66 Sharmuta
Rules for Radicals- Right-wing Edition.
Exactly. If you search for that phrase over at Malkin's site or at Hot Air I'm sure you'll find articles advocating adoption of it's tactics with explicit reference to the "success" it had on the Left.
| 69 |
Kronocide Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:11:55am |
The bronze BO Collectors bust for Kenyan Charities on the front page is making laugh pretty hard... heads a poppin!
| 70 |
brookly red Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:13:14am |
re: #62 Spare O'Lake
Baloney. The right wants to win the war and they support the troops. The lefties are barely choking back their vomit at Obama's betrayal.
If the lefties I see are any indication your right. I kinda feel sorry for the guy that has been standing by the local farmer's market handing out "stop the war, support Obama" fliers... he seems heavily medicated lately.
| 71 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:15:49am |
re: #65 Decatur Deb
I just checked. I'm not choking.
Nothing personal. Besides, you have LGF to keep you sane. ;D
| 72 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:16:00am |
re: #52 Racer X
Peace between America and Afghanistan will come when both sides understand that a healthy, stable economy in Afghanistan is crucial to everyone. It may take decades, but is worth the investment.
We are in the 21st century. Afghanistan (never mind those guys, men only, that we see speaking English from time to time) is still in the 15th century, perhaps earlier. It will take more than decades for them to catch up. Generations.
| 73 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:16:42am |
re: #71 Spare O'Lake
Nothing personal. Besides, you have LGF to keep you sane. ;D
That's why I'm here, and not at Kos.
| 74 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:17:41am |
Oh, man - I discovered a big 'ol bag of smoked pork shoulder in King Solomon's Mines the freezer, pulled and drenched in Carolina red sauce, and I am now sitting here in a pork-induced coma.
Homer: Are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Pork chops?
Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal.
Homer: Heh heh heh. Ooh, yeah, right, Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal!
| 75 |
Ojoe Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:18:03am |
OT:
President Barack Obama's top economic aide Christina Romer said Sunday the U.S. jobless rate could rise further and that the improving U.S. economy is not yet out of recession.Asked if the 10 percent unemployment rate could go higher, Romer, who heads up the White House Council of Economic Advisers, told NBC: "It could well."
"These things certainly do bounce around. I would anticipate some bumps in the road as we go ahead," she told the network's "Meet the Press" program, noting that jobs were a key element of the economic recovery.
Things?
You mean people dear.
*Mondo Lugie, * for callousness.
Link
| 76 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:19:28am |
re: #75 Ojoe
Upding for the creative use of the term 'spit'.
| 77 |
Ojoe Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:20:19am |
| 78 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:21:36am |
| 79 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:26:19am |
re: #78 SixDegrees
It's Italian, isn't it? /
No, you're thinking of the Italian porn star, Mondo Lugie.
*I'm gonna regret posting that aren't I?
| 80 |
Stuart Leviton Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:27:26am |
(off topic)
Police surrounded the campus of Teheran University on Sunday, trapping hundreds of students protesting what they said were fabricated government images of the burning of a photo of the Islamic Republic's revered founder.
| 81 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:29:24am |
A few worthwhile stories:
An update on Perry vs. Hutchison in Texas, its MSNBC but worth a read to see just how close-minded and disastrous Rick Perry is.
| 82 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:30:18am |
re: #79 Racer X
No, you're thinking of the Italian porn star, Mondo Lugie.
*I'm gonna regret posting that aren't I?
Yes, you are... SMACK!
| 83 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:30:21am |
| 84 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:32:43am |
re: #83 Racer X
Kind of odd for Texas. Good for them.
| 85 |
jaunte Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:32:46am |
re: #83 Racer X
We just elected the first Houston mayor who graduated from Rice University.
[Link: culturemap.com...]
| 86 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:34:48am |
Gold bugs claim a government conspiracy robbed them of economic apocalypse, manipulating gold prices...
Federal Reserve manipulating gold prices: Ron Paul
Congressman Ron Paul said that the US Federal Reserve and the Treasury department have been manipulating gold prices to deflate the price of gold.
Congressman Ron Paul of Texas this week introduced legislation designed to curb the ability of the President or the Treasury Secretary to manipulate worldwide gold prices. The "Monetary Freedom and Accountability Act" restores proper congressional authority over gold policy by requiring that body to vote its approval before the President or Secretary buys or sells gold.
| 87 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:36:55am |
re: #86 Killgore Trout
Gold bugs claim a government conspiracy robbed them of economic apocalypse, manipulating gold prices...
Federal Reserve manipulating gold prices: Ron Paul
Luap Nor!
| 88 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:37:53am |
re: #86 Killgore Trout
Gold bugs claim a government conspiracy robbed them of economic apocalypse, manipulating gold prices...
Federal Reserve manipulating gold prices: Ron Paul
Real shame RP isn't part of a GOP majority.
///
| 89 |
SixDegrees Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:38:53am |
re: #86 Killgore Trout
Someone needs to take a deep, detailed look into the investment portfolios of Paul and other Ronulans, and Beck as well. There's something not right going on there.
| 90 |
jaunte Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:39:05am |
re: #84 Killgore Trout
Kind of odd for Texas. Good for them.
Here's the key part of the story:
A three-term city council member and three-term controller, Parker touted her experience and credentials as a fiscal conservative. She promised to keep a tight rein on spending during tough economic times.
[Link: culturemap.com...]
| 91 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:40:04am |
re: #88 Decatur Deb
I fully expect Glenn Beck to pick up this angle next week. Beck's fans are getting fleeced by his pimping for gold. Blaming it on the evil government is a brilliant plan.
| 92 |
Ojoe Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:40:35am |
English
Etymology
Origin unknown; possibly from Luger, Lou, Lue, or Louie; possibly from the name of the baseball player Lou Gehrig (from the habit of baseball players of spitting); possible variant of booger.
Pronunciation
AHD: lōōg'i , IPA: /ˈluːgi/ , SAMPA: /'lu:gi/
Link
| 93 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:40:48am |
re: #84 Killgore Trout
Kind of odd for Texas. Good for them.
Interesting when you look at the numbers:
Houston population = 2.2 million.
Voter turnout = 152,000 (16% of eligible voters)
Votes for Parker = 81,743
*Houston is predominantly Democratic and about 25 percent black and one-third Hispanic. About 60,000 of its residents identify themselves as gay or lesbian.
| 94 |
brookly red Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:41:24am |
re: #89 SixDegrees
Someone needs to take a deep, detailed look into the investment portfolios of Paul and other Ronulans, and Beck as well. There's something not right going on there.
/you mean they are not diversified??
| 95 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:42:01am |
re: #91 Killgore Trout
I fully expect Glenn Beck to pick up this angle next week. Beck's fans are getting fleeced by his pimping for gold. Blaming it on the evil government is a brilliant plan.
Indeed. It also moves Beck's followers even further away from sanity, and increases the risk that one of them will do something violent. All things considered, it's a Perfect Storm of Bad Craziness.
| 96 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:42:11am |
re: #81 Dark_FalconA few worthwhile stories:
An update on Perry vs. Hutchison in Texas, its MSNBC but worth a read to see just how close-minded and disastrous Rick Perry is.
"Indian Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh said his country — the world's No. 5 greenhouse gas polluter — will not offer more than its current pledge to slow its growth rate of emissions.
China has made voluntary commitments to rein in its carbon emissions but doesn't want to be bound by international law to do so."
It would be seriously deranged to blame these dealbreakers on the AGW deniers.
| 97 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:42:18am |
| 98 |
Ojoe Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:42:59am |
Other Translations for "loogie"
Morse Code .-.. --- --- --. .. .
Binary 1101100 1101111 1101111 1100111 1101001 1100101
Hex 6C6F6F676965
Pig Latin oogielay
| 99 |
Feline Fearless Leader Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:46:19am |
War on Christmas!
Legislate against excessive waste of electricity on Xmas light displays!
/
| 100 |
oldegeezr Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:46:21am |
I took serious issue with Yon’s take on the bribery of the “Son’s of Iraq”...in 2008. My attitude was based on my limited experience with the very corrosive and eventually demoralizing effect of bribery [on those not bribed] in Vietnam.
In a successful counterinsurgency it is impossible to separate military and political success. The Sunni “awakening” was not primarily a military event any more than it was “bribery.” It was a political event with enormous military benefits. ~M.Yon
In forth generation warfare [4GW] it’s imperative to meld both military and political force effects.
Cheers Michael...!
An olde dog is never too olde to learn new tricks...!
| 101 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:47:41am |
re: #96 Spare O'Lake
It would be seriously deranged to blame these dealbreakers on the AGW deniers.
Agreed. I think Obama should simply inform India that if they do not make more concessions, the US will move to greatly restrict outsourcing overseas. If India does not restrain its emissions, then we should restrain its trade to slow them down.
| 102 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:48:15am |
re: #99 oaktree
War on Christmas!
Legislate against excessive waste of electricity on Xmas light displays!
/
You would say that!! It's warmed up enough that I have to go do the outside tree. Later.
| 103 |
Velvet Elvis Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:48:27am |
re: #62 Spare O'Lake
Baloney. The right wants to win the war and they support the troops. The lefties are barely choking back their vomit at Obama's betrayal.
Obama ran on escalating the war in Afghanistan. I supported him on it then and now.
| 104 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:54:50am |
re: #20 marjoriemoon
I'm surprised more from the Right aren't praising the surge as they did with Bush or maybe they're whispering praise behind closed doors lest anyone mistake it for Obama love. Shudder the thought...
No one knows the ultimate outcome of these wars. It would be enough to crush Al-Queda and the Taliban, but as Yon points out, they are mostly in Pakistan. In fact, the President said the same. My question is what will happen after the surge, even if it is successful and I imagine it will be. How do you keep the country from corruption? Harder questions.
Having a Democrat as CiC has drastically changed many people's attitude about the situation. The same people who would never have dreamed of whispering a word of criticism about Bush, back when guys going to Iraq were buying their own body armor, are willing to damn Obama for taking his time on deciding about a troop increase. Frankly, this is tacky.
I still don't know what our objective in Afghanistan ultimately is. Pakistan remains a huge problem.
| 105 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:56:00am |
re: #28 Sharmuta
Speaking of Totten, here are two of his recent pieces:
Tel Aviv is more densely populated than Gaza!
| 106 |
Gang of One Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:56:23am |
re: #30 SixDegrees
Unmanned drones are a huge game-changer for the military. The enemy is up against an enemy they simply can't see, hear or fight, and even if they had the means to shoot one down, we'd just lob another one up there with no cost in manpower to our side. Meanwhile, our pilots and weapons team are thousands of miles away - often back in the states - as far from harm as possible.
Horribly demoralizing for the enemy.
But, but, but ... isn't that disproportional and, and ... unfair?!
///need I?
| 107 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:58:33am |
| 108 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:01:24am |
re: #66 Sharmuta
Rules for Radicals- Right-wing Edition.
Given their obsession with that stupid book, it's not surprising they've tried to adapt it to their use. Most Democrats, BTW, have never the hell heard of Alinsky.
Can someone give these people a nice copy of The Prince, so they'll at least look kind of smart while they're plotting?
| 109 |
Stanghazi Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:02:40am |
re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist
Given their obsession with that stupid book, it's not surprising they've tried to adapt it to their use. Most Democrats, BTW, have never the hell heard of Alinsky.
Can someone give these people a nice copy of The Prince, so they'll at least look kind of smart while they're plotting?
Honestly. Never heard of it till I read that I was following it religiously.
| 110 |
Gang of One Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:02:59am |
re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist
Given their obsession with that stupid book, it's not surprising they've tried to adapt it to their use. Most Democrats, BTW, have never the hell heard of Alinsky.
Can someone give these people a nice copy of The Prince, so they'll at least look kind of smart while they're plotting?
Antoine de Saint-Exuperay's or Machiavelli's?
| 111 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:04:30am |
re: #109 Stanley Sea
Honestly. Never heard of it till I read that I was following it religiously.
Me too. Now I'm sort of tempted to read it, to find out what I've been up to?
| 112 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:05:01am |
re: #110 Gang of One
Antoine de Saint-Exuperay's or Machiavelli's?
de St.-Exuperay's is The Little Prince, and I think is a much better read.
| 113 |
Stanghazi Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:05:28am |
re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist
Me too. Now I'm sort of tempted to read it, to find out what I've been up to?
At least we'd be able to quote it correctly!
| 114 |
Gang of One Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:05:58am |
re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist
de St.-Exuperay's is The Little Prince, and I think is a much better read.
Yes. Especially for those referenced, neh?
| 115 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:15:59am |
re: #20 marjoriemoon
I'm surprised more from the Right aren't praising the surge as they did with Bush or maybe they're whispering praise behind closed doors lest anyone mistake it for Obama love. Shudder the thought...
Many of us are actually quite glad that someone's been explaining the facts of life to him, in his daily security briefings.
| 116 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:17:47am |
re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist
I still don't know what our objective in Afghanistan ultimately is. Pakistan remains a huge problem.
Deny it to al-Qaeda as a base to attack us. And yes, Pakistan is a huge problem. As terrible as it is, though, it could easily and swiftly get much worse. Thank goodness for their own surge earlier this year.
| 117 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:22:47am |
re: #116 The Sanity Inspector
Deny it to al-Qaeda as a base to attack us. And yes, Pakistan is a huge problem. As terrible as it is, though, it could easily and swiftly get much worse. Thank goodness for their own surge earlier this year.
Dear God, you actually have an answer! And a sane one!
I would upding you a million updings if I could!
| 118 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:36:10am |
re: #36 sattv4u2
Deploy TED NUGENT!
I remember a clip on CNN during the run-up to the first Persian Gulf war. The troops were blasting rock music at the Iraqis over the border in Kuwait. Only caught a snatch of the song, but I could tell it was "Stranglehold".
| 119 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:41:40am |
re: #117 SanFranciscoZionist
Dear God, you actually have an answer! And a sane one!
I would upding you a million updings if I could!
Er, thanks! Happy to be of assistance...I think... :)
| 120 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:45:19am |
re: #119 The Sanity Inspector
Er, thanks! Happy to be of assistance...I think... :)
No, seriously. I say, "What is our goal in Afghanistan", and people say "To win!" or "to defeat the Taliban!"
That's a sane formulation. I can work with that.
| 121 |
oldegeezr Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:57:46am |
re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist
My thought would be...PAK must remain stable for any success we may have in AFG.
Pakistan must remain absolutely stable, without exception; they have the “lead balloons”.
They must be and remain in friendly hands!
| 122 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 2:02:42pm |
re: #115 The Sanity Inspector
Many of us are actually quite glad that someone's been explaining the facts of life to him, in his daily security briefings.
hehe ain't you cute :)
But you guys never really listened to what Obama said during the campaign. He'd shift troops from Iraq to send to Afghanistan. This "ultra-liberal" supported the Afghan war.
McCain, OTHO, wanted to concentrate in Iraq and get NATO and Pakistan to step up. Now that's a great plan in theory, but in reality, I really don't see it.
The truth is we aren't going to leave either place. We have our bases there and they will always be there. It's the amount of presence, active presence that is a concern to all U.S. citizens.
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