Thugfest at Climate Conference

Environment • Views: 4,121

Someone at the United Nations thought it would be a great idea for us to hear what thugs, dictators, and religious fanatics think about global warming.

COPENHAGEN –Iranian Prime Minister Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe plan to address negotiators at international climate talks in Copenhagen next week. 

This, of course, disproves the Great Climate Change Hoax. Come on, people, it’s another piece of the puzzle! CRU emails, Ahmadinejad, Chavez … don’t you see the New World Order conspiracy?

Yes, that’s sarcasm, in case you had any doubt.

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151 comments
1 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:45:13am
Nafie chairs the G-77 group, a block of developing nations pushing hard for more money and stricter emissions cuts from rich countries.

But there our thugs, dictators and fanatics.

/

2 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:45:52am

Don't leave out China, which would like other countries to adopt its population control methods.

3 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:46:32am

Going to go out on a limb here and say they're probably going to blame it all on the US.

4 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:47:23am

It's a free for all, and the science is actually irrelevant to the outcome. Any decision that happens will come only when the rich nations decide to subsidize the poor ones and even then, actually emissions reductions are based on wishful thinking that countries will willingly sacrifice their economic growth to curb emissions unless they're going to pursue massive expansion of alternative energy and nuclear power.

But listening to thugs and dictators lecture the West about proper actions is just like being at the UN General Assembly. It's a rogue's gallery.

Watch for Ahmadinejad use the opportunity to demand nuclear power (all while his centrifuges are spinning towards nuclear weapons); Chavez extols the virtues of nationalization and food shortages as a way of reducing emissions, and Mugabe extols the virtues of debasing the economy (although the Tsavingerai government appears to have cut the inflation to something close to sustainable by linking the currency to the US dollar). That country remains a basket case due to Mugabe's actions.

5 Liberally Conservative  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:47:36am

Why did those three get invited? Do the Copenhagen organizers believe they have something worthwhile to say? Hell, two of them are only in power because their countries make billions off oil exports.

6 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:48:08am

Speaking of thugs:

Hamas mobilizes mass rally in show of strength

Hamas mobilized tens of thousands of supporters on Monday for an anniversary rally meant to show the Islamic militant group has not lost support despite Israel's devastating military assault on Gaza a year ago.

The crowd responded with chants of "We won't recognize Israel" to a fiery speech by Hamas' prime minister, Ismail Haniyeh, who said the movement scored a "divine victory" against the Jewish state and will not lay down its arms.

Despite the defiant words, Hamas has sharply curtailed rocket fire on Israeli border towns since last winter's Israeli offensive, which inflicted heavy losses on the militants.

Hamas is cutting down on their carbon footprint- what great guys. ///

7 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:49:22am

The new scientist has an article called turning the table on climate deniers
[Link: www.newscientist.com...]

8 Political Atheist  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:49:24am

re: #4 lawhawk

Did you see the CNN story? Iran is caught making triggers for nukes.

9 freetoken  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:49:57am

re: #5 Liberally Conservative

Any member to the United Nations Framework on Climate Change can come. That means about every nation on Earth.

The only leader who won't be showing up for sure is the head of Sudan... as he would find himself in jail.

10 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:49:58am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Going to go out on a limb here and say they're probably going to blame it all on the US.

No way!

11 Liberally Conservative  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:50:21am

re: #8 Rightwingconspirator

Did you see the CNN story? Iran is caught making triggers for nukes.

You mean they...lied about their nuclear program being peaceful?

12 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:50:37am

re: #10 Charles

No way!

Call it a hunch.

13 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:50:38am
14 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:51:06am

Now, they have told these thugs that you can't fix climate problems by threatening to throw currents, winds, and icebergs in jail and torture them until they behave?

I mean, that is how they handle all their other "problems."*

*grateful to live in a country where the citizens aren't "problems."

15 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:51:09am

re: #2 Alouette

Don't leave out China, which would like other countries to adopt its population control methods.

Is that good or bad?

16 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:51:21am

re: #6 Sharmuta

Sharply curtailed - but not eliminated. Thanks for reminding the world that Hamas remains dedicated to war and jihad and the destruction of Israel. If only they'd actually see this.

17 freetoken  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:52:04am

re: #13 Ben Hur

Given your link loves The Lord High Denier... yeah, I'd say black helicopter is about right...

18 Racer X  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:52:10am

re: #6 Sharmuta

Thread worthy.

19 Stuart Leviton  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:52:30am

I am glad to see that Ahmadinejad has time to negotiate something. The fist unclenches.

oh, is that what people meant when they discussed fisting the other day?

20 Liberally Conservative  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:53:22am

re: #9 freetoken

Any member to the United Nations Framework on Climate Change can come. That means about every nation on Earth.

The only leader who won't be showing up for sure is the head of Sudan... as he would find himself in jail.

Still, two of those leaders are from large petroleum-exporting countries. They have a vested interest in making the whole conference be a giant farce, and they have some experience in that.

21 freetoken  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:53:26am

Whoops, I was wrong downstairs... the US delegation is indeed holding a presser right now...

22 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:54:04am

re: #17 freetoken

Given your link loves The Lord High Denier... yeah, I'd say black helicopter is about right...

I have no clue who that guy is.

23 Stuart Leviton  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:54:08am

re: #16 lawhawk

Sharply curtailed - but not eliminated. Thanks for reminding the world that Hamas remains dedicated to war and jihad and the destruction of Israel. If only they'd actually see this.


Dedicated to a war. "Dedication" is in the Hanukah spirit. Maybe there's hope.

24 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:54:09am

re: #15 Sharmuta

Is that good or bad?

Chinese population control policy, good or bad?

25 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:54:11am

re: #16 lawhawk

Sharply curtailed - but not eliminated. Thanks for reminding the world that Hamas remains dedicated to war and jihad and the destruction of Israel. If only they'd actually see this.

The fact Egypt is taking serious steps against Hamas can't be helping them.

Egypt erecting wall to thwart Gaza smuggling

To cut smuggling tunnels into the Gaza Strip, Egypt is installing an impenetrable U.S.-made metal wall that will stretch about 7 miles and extend nearly 60 feet deep, the BBC is reporting.

The wall was designed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, is bomb proof and cannot be cut or melted, the BBC says, citing intelligence sources in Egypt. About 2 miles have been installed so far along an existing perimeter fence; the entire wall will be finished in 18 months.

26 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:54:43am

re: #8 Rightwingconspirator

Indeed I did. The 2007 NIE got that one wrong. Again.

27 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:55:00am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Going to go out on a limb here and say they're probably going to blame it all on the US Bush.

28 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:55:10am

re: #21 freetoken

Whoops, I was wrong downstairs... the US delegation is indeed holding a presser right now...

Do you have the link to live feeds?

29 brucee  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:55:35am

A preview of Ahmadinejad's speech:

We do not have any climate change in Iran.

30 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:56:02am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The fact Egypt is taking serious steps against Hamas can't be helping them.

Egypt erecting wall to thwart Gaza smuggling

I can't wait for all the screams of "genocide!" "torture!" "war crimes!" "starvation!" and "apartheid!" against Egypt.

31 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:56:06am

re: #17 freetoken

Given your link loves The Lord High Denier... yeah, I'd say black helicopter is about right...

The radio network linked also carries Rense. Don't people look at this shit before they post it?

32 brookly red  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:56:24am

re: #19 Stuart Leviton

I am glad to see that Ahmadinejad has time to negotiate something. The fist unclenches.

oh, is that what people meant when they discussed fisting the other day?

It's good PR to be seen out of the country at a UN conference while your thugs are back home taking care of business...

33 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:56:35am

Come on, give Mugabe a break. He devalued the currency so much that they're no longer printing money. He saaaaved the trees!

34 freetoken  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:56:44am

re: #28 Charles

It's almost over:

[Link: www3.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

35 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:56:46am

re: #29 brucee

A preview of Ahmadinejad's speech:

except for that forced on us by the evil Imperialist forces led by the US.

36 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:57:08am

re: #30 Alouette

I can't wait for all the screams of "genocide!" "torture!" "war crimes!" "starvation!" and "apartheid!" against Egypt.

And that just for shooting Sudanese refugees on sight.

37 Liberally Conservative  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:57:25am

re: #32 brookly red

It's good PR to be seen out of the country at a UN conference while your thugs are back home taking care of business...

Didn't he negotiate something with Russia for the week after the elections? It's almost as if he was expecting some unrest or something.

38 freetoken  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:58:19am

The Copenhagen live video feeds are recorded and can be viewed at your discretion:

[Link: www1.cop15.meta-fusion.com...]

The US press conference just concluded, but the recorded version should be available in a couple of hours.

39 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:58:21am

Mugabe will be requesting the last 8 digits be removed from all calculations regarding climate change to counteract inflation.

40 brookly red  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:58:22am

re: #37 Liberally Conservative

Didn't he negotiate something with Russia for the week after the elections? It's almost as if he was expecting some unrest or something.

timing is everything...

41 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 11:59:41am

re: #24 Alouette

Yeah- I'm confused after being told last night more babies are bad by a more liberal member, so I'm not sure now if population control is supposed to be seen as a good thing or not. Even the UN thinks babies are bad.

42 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:00:22pm

re: #29 brucee

A preview of Ahmadinejad's speech:

But if we do, it's causes by the Jooooos!

43 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:01:07pm

re: #42 Mad Al-Jaffee

But if we do, it's causes by the Jooos!

We are the cause of all isms.

44 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:02:34pm

re: #41 Sharmuta

Yeah- I'm confused after being told last night more babies are bad by a more liberal member, so I'm not sure now if population control is supposed to be seen as a good thing or not. Even the UN thinks babies are bad.

Alouette's babies: good.

Everyone else's babies: not good.

45 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:02:51pm

I'm interested in what they have to say.

Really.

Sometimes I need a good laugh.

46 ED 209  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:04:05pm

re: #41 Sharmuta

Yeah- I'm confused after being told last night more babies are bad by a more liberal member, so I'm not sure now if population control is supposed to be seen as a good thing or not. Even the UN thinks babies are bad.

And they're right! -

47 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:04:26pm

re: #24 Alouette

Chinese population control policy, good or bad?

Oh no!! Not again!! LOL

48 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:04:28pm

Prince Charles getting quietly pushed aside?

Prince William to share Queen's duties: Treasury document reveals secret plan to make him the 'Shadow King'

One blacked-out line states that ‘the Princes [William and Harry] will increasingly incur expenditure when undertaking engagements on behalf of The Queen’.

Another censored section, stressing the key role for William, says that ‘from next year, it is expected that HRH The Prince William will spend a significant part of his time on official engagements . . . we need to put the necessary provisions in place in anticipation of that’.

The leak will add to speculation that the Queen believes William, rather than Charles, represents the best long-term interests of the monarchy, and will raise new questions about the timing of William’s long-anticipated engagement to his girlfriend Kate Middleton.

49 Baier  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:04:57pm

The UN, giving a voice to dictators, thugs, and theocrat for 60 years. What would we do without the UN?

50 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:05:31pm

re: #47 marjoriemoon

Oh no!! Not again!! LOL

that's ok. like last time, i'm still willing to take a punch if either of you get too upset by this topic. (where's reine when we need her?)

51 brookly red  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:05:42pm

Wanting us to hear from thugs, dictators & fanatics seems to be SOP for the UN, so this is not really any kind of departure.

52 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:05:43pm

re: #49 Baier

The UN, giving a voice to dictators, thugs, and theocrat for 60 years. What would we do without the UN?

Lower emissions.

53 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:05:46pm

re: #36 Ben Hur

Aw heck - they'll just claim that they were engaging in sustainable environmental practices to reduce emissions. //////////////

54 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:06:41pm

I just got an email that Dec. 24 will be a half day. Except contactors (like me) will have to take personal time off or work extra hours to make up for it. Thanks, President O.

55 Baier  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:07:06pm

re: #53 lawhawk

Aw heck - they'll just claim that they were engaging in sustainable environmental practices to reduce emissions. ///

The UN proves it has a high standard for emissions, but a low standard for admission.

56 brookly red  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:07:28pm

re: #53 lawhawk

Aw heck - they'll just claim that they were engaging in sustainable environmental practices to reduce emissions. ///

/See, Iran NEEDS nuclear power...

57 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:07:57pm

re: #54 Mad Al-Jaffee

I just got an email that Dec. 24 will be a half day. Except contactors (like me) will have to take personal time off or work extra hours to make up for it. Thanks, President O.

You get a half day? That's better than what I get. And, as an added bonus, I'm on call Christmas day and New Years Day if stuff breaks. No debauchery for me on the latter...

58 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:08:10pm

re: #48 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Queen would be correct. William is loved, and his father not so much. It IS in the best interest of the throne to have a beloved figure front and center rather than someone many feel ambivalent towards.

59 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:08:22pm

re: #50 Aceofwhat?

that's ok. like last time, i'm still willing to take a punch if either of you get too upset by this topic. (where's reine when we need her?)

hehehe Sometimes it's just good to keep your head low.

60 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:10:51pm

re: #54 Mad Al-Jaffee

I just got an email that Dec. 24 will be a half day. Except contactors (like me) will have to take personal time off or work extra hours to make up for it. Thanks, President O.

You work for the President?

61 RogueOne  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:10:56pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

The Queen would be correct. William is loved, and his father not so much. It IS in the best interest of the throne to have a beloved figure front and center rather than someone many feel ambivalent towards.

I could not feel any more ambivalent towards the throne than I do now.

62 Gus  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:11:01pm

Quick note on who's "kicking off" the speeches:

The assistant president of Sudan, Nafie Ali Nafie kicks off the speeches at noon on Wednesday.

About Nafie:

An unexpected key player in Darfur peace efforts

KHARTOUM, SUDAN — He's accused of torturing enemies, cozying up to Osama bin Laden in the 1990s and plotting to assassinate Egypt's president.

But presidential advisor Nafie Ali Nafie says his moderation and pragmatism won him his latest assignment: overseeing the Sudanese government's response to the conflict in Darfur.

SNIP

Nafie, a former agriculture professor who was plucked to serve as head of intelligence and security from 1989 to 1995, has often played the "bad cop" in one of Africa's most powerful and long-lasting regimes.

"He was my interrogator," said Farouk Mohammed Ibrahim, a former University of Khartoum science professor and government critic who was arrested in 1989 and held in one of Sudan's notorious, secret "ghost houses" for 12 days.

There you have it. First up is former Sudanese head of intelligence and security and interrogator, Nafie Ali Nafie.

63 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:11:02pm

re: #58 Sharmuta

The Queen would be correct. William is loved, and his father not so much. It IS in the best interest of the throne to have a beloved figure front and center rather than someone many feel ambivalent towards.

And, let's not forget, photogenic. i'm not often good at identifying 'attractive' males (i don't find any males attractive...just born that way), but even i can tell that Charles' face is only going to launch ships in the opposite direction...

64 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:11:18pm

re: #47 marjoriemoon

Oh no!! Not again!! LOL

What? Isn't it just as much a part of the conversation about reproductive rights to discuss whether women should be able to have as many babies as they want?

65 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:11:26pm

re: #60 marjoriemoon

You work for the President?

Don't we all?

66 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:11:31pm

re: #4 lawhawk

That country remains a basket case due to Mugabe's actions.

Expect the G77+ China block to continue trying to turn Copenhagen into Klepto-hagen.

This is about paying a tax to "developing" nations (poor, indigent ones like China) for the guilty pleasure of having the per capita emissions that we have in the west. The payments will nominally be for development activity that is green, but this is the UN. Expect them to demand programs similar to oil for palaces. Expect lavish shopping trips to George V in Paris by dictators who have clear cut and replanted their forests to goose their carbon sink status and get more $ while pissing on their impoverished people while China gets no emissions caps so that the world moves the rest of our factories there so there is no "carbon tax" in the product and the world sees more CO2 emissions than if we simply did business as usual.

Part of me thinks we should just bail on the treaty, have a massive domestic nuclear electricity program where any manufacturer gets free electricity. That could lead to a reversal of manufacturing jobs and activity going to laisez faire carbon zones.

67 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:11:59pm

re: #61 RogueOne

I could not feel any more ambivalent towards the throne than I do now.

And that's the point- William would bring an excitement his father won't.

68 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:12:06pm

re: #57 MrSilverDragon

You get a half day? That's better than what I get. And, as an added bonus, I'm on call Christmas day and New Years Day if stuff breaks. No debauchery for me on the latter...

Hubby sells booze. He's never home on the holidays.

69 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:12:22pm

re: #61 RogueOne

I could not feel any more ambivalent towards the throne than I do now.

I think the real story there is the increasing likelihood that Prince Charles will never be King.

70 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:12:48pm

re: #57 MrSilverDragon

You get a half day? That's better than what I get. And, as an added bonus, I'm on call Christmas day and New Years Day if stuff breaks. No debauchery for me on the latter...

I get a half day, but I'll have to use my vacation time (or come in early and/or work extra hours that week to make up for it.) Regular government workers will get a half day off paid.

71 RogueOne  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:13:22pm

re: #67 Sharmuta

And that's the point- William would bring an excitement his father won't.

I'm just giving you a hard time. Unless they put a midget on one throne and a hooker on the other, I'm not going to care any more than I do now.//

72 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:13:41pm

re: #64 Sharmuta

I think you missed a major 'who's on first' on this topic. Marjorie, Reine, Alouette. good times.

73 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:13:52pm

Start my vacation on the 18 and don't go back to work until the 28th, and that week will be half days since no one else will be around.

74 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:14:03pm

re: #62 Gus 802

Quick note on who's "kicking off" the speeches:

There you have it. First up is former Sudanese head of intelligence and security and interrogator, Nafie Ali Nafie.

BAD COP?? That's what they call him? Oh for cripe's sake.

Stop the world, I wanna get off.

75 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:14:09pm

re: #60 marjoriemoon

You work for the President?

No, I'm a government contractor. The announced half way was an executive order.

76 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:15:41pm

re: #75 Mad Al-Jaffee

No, I'm a government contractor. The announced half way was an executive order.

Same here. I'll be sitting in my office watching DVDs, getting paid for 8 hours a day, since all the customers will be out until January 4th.

77 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:16:03pm

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think the real story there is the increasing likelihood that Prince Charles will never be King.


Who would want it? Less responsibility and great paycheck are the penalties of being one or two removed from the throne...is anyone set up for a cushier life than prince Harry, for instance?

78 Gus  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:16:21pm

re: #74 marjoriemoon

BAD COP?? That's what they call him? Oh for cripe's sake.

Stop the world, I wanna get off.

Yeah. "Bad cop" might be the kinder gentler version for Sudanese intelligence thug. The International Criminal Court has a warrant out for President Omar al-Bashir's arrest which Sudan is rejecting.

79 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:16:58pm

re: #65 Ben Hur

Don't we all?

How existential of you lol

I think the economy collapsed far more than a year ago. If McCain was pres, we'd still be in the same pot.

80 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:18:05pm

re: #77 Aceofwhat?

Who would want it? Less responsibility and great paycheck are the penalties of being one or two removed from the throne...is anyone set up for a cushier life than prince Harry, for instance?

I think Prince Charles cannot be at all happy about this. I picture him in his private rooms bawling to Camilla, "It was supposed to be my time. MY TIME!"

81 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:18:05pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Going to go out on a limb here and say they're probably going to blame it all on the US.

And they would be wrong why?

82 Jaerik  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:19:07pm

Yeah, climate change will effect us all. But your position at the table should be proportional to your ability to do something about it. The opinion of the Botswanan delegation is pretty much irrelevant. There's a reason the UN General Assembly never gets anything done. Why did we apparently decide to replicate that at Copenhagen?

83 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:19:13pm

re: #79 marjoriemoon

How existential of you lol

I think the economy collapsed far more than a year ago. If McCain was pres, we'd still be in the same pot.

Nothing wrong with my pot.

;)

84 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:20:05pm

re: #75 Mad Al-Jaffee

No, I'm a government contractor. The announced half way was an executive order.

Well that's certainly close enough!

We aren't getting raises or bonuses, our insurance went up again (as it has every year for the last 4-5 years) and our vacations have been cut.

Some of that is taking advantage of the crappy economy, but what can I do. I'm still lucky to be employed.

This too shall pass.

85 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:20:48pm

Queen Victoria's oldest son, whose name I cannot even remember, once remarked that we all have an Eternal Father, but only he had an Eternal Mother.

86 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:21:03pm

re: #81 Sharmuta

And they would be wrong why?

Because there are legitamate reasons and then there are kneejerk, self serving reason, and I think we both know which side of the equation these guys will end up on.

87 Gearhead  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:21:06pm
COPENHAGEN –Iranian Prime Minister Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe plan to address negotiators at international climate talks in Copenhagen next week.

All they need now is Kim Jong Il and a copy of Beatles Rock Band.

88 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:22:39pm

re: #5 Liberally Conservative

Why did those three get invited? Do the Copenhagen organizers believe they have something worthwhile to say? Hell, two of them are only in power because their countries make billions off oil exports.

Asked and answered.

89 brookly red  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:23:04pm

re: #87 Gearhead

All they need now is Kim Jong Il and a copy of Beatles Rock Band.

/Kim Jong Il has been rather effective in cutting emissions from NK.

90 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:23:07pm

re: #87 Gearhead

All they need now is Kim Jong Il and a copy of Beatles Rock Band.

I picture them as more of a Gauntlet group.

"Elf needs food badly!"

91 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:23:21pm

re: #84 marjoriemoon

Well that's certainly close enough!

We aren't getting raises or bonuses, our insurance went up again (as it has every year for the last 4-5 years) and our vacations have been cut.

Some of that is taking advantage of the crappy economy, but what can I do. I'm still lucky to be employed.

This too shall pass.

Same here. The toughest day at work is usually better than the best day job-hunting.

92 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:23:29pm

re: #87 Gearhead

All they need now is Kim Jong Il and a copy of Beatles Rock Band.

i'm soooo ronery...

93 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:24:16pm

re: #87 Gearhead

Eh, they could play Nirvana's Lithium without Li'l Kim.

94 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:24:16pm

re: #81 Sharmuta

And they would be wrong why?

They'd be wrong because the UN's top climate official says they'd be wrong:

The conference centre was closed for what was supposed to be a day of rest, but across Copenhagen people were meeting in cafes, hotel foyers and at the ministry of foreign affairs.

That is where the 48 environment ministers spent the day locked in talks with the Danish President of the proceedings and Yvo de Boer, the UN's top climate change official.

He believes the biggest resistance to a strong deal is coming from China.

Chinese negotiators do not want to sign up to an agreement that involves inspectors visiting the country to verify progress on climate commitments.

"Actions - how will they be measured, reported on and verified in the case of action the countries take on their own or in the case of actions that countries take with international support?" Mr de Boer said.

"Do we need to enhance the reporting obligations of all countries? In other words, a lot of things on reporting and on transparency and on being sure that whatever is committed to is actually achieved."

The European Union has now joined the United States in criticising a draft agreement by the UN that says that developing nations will only reduce their emissions if they receive financial help.

95 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:24:52pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Valkyrie is about to die...

Gosh, I loved that game.

96 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:26:54pm

re: #95 lawhawk

The Valkyrie is about to die...

Gosh, I loved that game.

Shots do not hurt other players...yet.

97 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:26:56pm

re: #94 karmic_inquisitor

The European Union has now joined the United States in criticising a draft agreement by the UN that says that developing nations will only reduce their emissions if they receive more financial help.

fixed.

98 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:28:02pm

There's a group on Facebook called : Leiberman Betrayal.

"Don't let him kill health reform!"

Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked
have been sacked.

99 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:28:07pm

re: #94 karmic_inquisitor

But the US would still be the primary offender in CO2 and responsible for climate change. And babies.

100 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:28:24pm

re: #95 lawhawk

The Valkyrie is about to die...

Gosh, I loved that game.

likewise. it supported an atmosphere where you had a team, but you often yelled at your team for getting themselves into trouble. i like having a team, and i like yelling at them.

101 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:28:57pm

re: #100 Aceofwhat?

likewise. it supported an atmosphere where you had a team, but you often yelled at your team for getting themselves into trouble. i like having a team, and i like yelling at them.

Play Warcraft?

102 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:29:13pm

Speaking of Kim & the Norks, how do you follow up starving a goodly percentage of your population? Make the survivors' savings worthless.

103 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:29:40pm

re: #50 Aceofwhat?

that's ok. like last time, i'm still willing to take a punch if either of you get too upset by this topic. (where's reine when we need her?)

Here I yam.

104 Liberally Conservative  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:29:52pm

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Play Warcraft?

I hope you mean the MMO!

105 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:30:04pm

re: #98 Ben Hur

Wik
Alsø wik
Alsø alsø wik
Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër?
See the løveli lakes
The wøndërful telephøne system
And mäni interesting furry animals

106 Gearhead  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:30:12pm

re: #100 Aceofwhat?

likewise. it supported an atmosphere where you had a team, but you often yelled at your team for getting themselves into trouble. i like having a team, and i like yelling at them.

Are you Bobby Knight, by any chance?

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:30:50pm

Totally OT, but I just feel like venting:

As an Oregonian, I wish they would close Mt. Hood for climbing during winter (you have to have a permit to go). People die, and other people risk their lives trying to save or even find them.

It's not worth it. The mountain's just as big in July.

108 RobRace  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:30:57pm

Those are 3 evil mothas!!!

109 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:31:05pm

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Play Warcraft?

Nope. Same reason i don't do meth. I don't know if i could quit. You gotta know yourself...

110 jaunte  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:31:09pm

re: #103 reine.de.tout

Here I yam.

Be sure to send yourself, with attached recipe, to the cookbook site.

111 Jaerik  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:31:25pm

re: #92 Aceofwhat?

i'm sooo ronery...

We need to send in Hanz Brix.

112 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:31:36pm

re: #98 Ben Hur

There's a group on Facebook called : Leiberman Betrayal.

"Don't let him kill health reform!"

Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked
have been sacked.

ROFL... Now that's comedy!

Hell I may join. Leiberman has no business caucusing with the Dems ever again. I've just decided.

113 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:33:05pm

re: #107 EmmmieG

Totally OT, but I just feel like venting:

As an Oregonian, I wish they would close Mt. Hood for climbing during winter (you have to have a permit to go). People die, and other people risk their lives trying to save or even find them.

It's not worth it. The mountain's just as big in July.

I have to agree. My first reaction to the story this morning was "WTF? It's December!"

114 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:33:33pm

re: #113 SixDegrees

I have to agree. My first reaction to the story this morning was "WTF? It's December!"

Honestly, this happens about every other year, although the worst disaster ever was a freak thing in May.

115 BruceKelly  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:33:34pm

re: #98 Ben Hur

Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked.

I just watched that silly damned Monty Python movie (again) yesterday.

116 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:33:38pm

re: #68 marjoriemoon

Hubby sells booze. He's never home on the holidays.

And mine works offshore. He's rarely home on holidays. Won't be home for Christmas this year. *sniff*

117 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:34:27pm

re: #104 Liberally Conservative

I hope you mean the MMO!

But of course.

118 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:34:38pm

re: #106 Gearhead

Are you Bobby Knight, by any chance?

Some have intimated that i have similar tendencies. For my part, I play tennis for a reason. I get to hit the ball every time and have only myself to blame when i lose. I keep my friends, too.

nosce te ipsum, right?

119 jaunte  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:34:52pm

Chavez has a pr problem:

While it's certainly environmentally vital for Venezuela to move off lead based gasoline and adopt alternative technologies, Chavez also has public relations considerations. The Venezuelan President wants to paint himself as an underdog on the world stage, struggling against U.S. imperialism and the voracious consumerist appetites of North Americans.[Link: www.venezuelanalysis.com...]
120 Kragar  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:35:52pm

re: #119 jaunte

Chavez has a pr problem:

Plus, he has to deal with that whole being an utter and complete douchebag thing.

121 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:35:54pm

re: #119 jaunte

Chavez has a pr problem:

Maybe markos could help him with that.

122 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:36:06pm

re: #103 reine.de.tout

Here I yam.

you were missed

123 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:36:10pm

re: #107 EmmmieG

Totally OT, but I just feel like venting:

As an Oregonian, I wish they would close Mt. Hood for climbing during winter (you have to have a permit to go). People die, and other people risk their lives trying to save or even find them.

It's not worth it. The mountain's just as big in July.

Here in Michigan, every damn year, the Coast Guard winds up hauling dozens of people off ice floes that have broken off from shore and started drifting out into one of the Great Lakes with ice fisherman on it, despite warnings for days and even weeks beforehand to stay off the ice. The last few years, they've taken to charging repeat offenders - not a cheap proposition since the only way to get people off those things is with helicopters, and helicopters are expensive. I think the typical bill is a few thousand bucks.

Too early to tell whether it's working as a discouragement.

124 Gus  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:36:18pm

OT

In other thug news. News from the country that brought you the Taliban:

Pakistan Rebuffs U.S. on Crackdown
By JANE PERLEZ 51 minutes ago

The Pakistani military has refused to turn on Siraj Haqqani, above in 1998, the strongest Taliban warrior in Afghanistan and an asset of Pakistan’s spy agency.

and

Pakistan Bars Deportation of Detained Americans

LAHORE, Pakistan — Five Muslim American men arrested in Pakistan last week cannot be deported to the United States until their case is reviewed, a Pakistani judge here ruled Monday.

...

The ruling came as new details emerged about how a Taliban recruiter first made contact with the men, one of whom, Ahmed Abdullah Minni, is suspected of repeatedly posting comments on YouTube praising videos showing attacks on American troops, according to a Pakistani police report.

...

Hitchens is right.

125 Gearhead  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:36:25pm

re: #115 BruceKelly

I just watched that silly damned Monty Python movie (again) yesterday.

Now I know what to get you two for Christmas: Bunny slippers

126 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:36:42pm

re: #99 Sharmuta

But the US would still be the primary offender in CO2 and responsible for climate change. And babies.

China pumps out more CO2 that the US.

And, per $ of GDP, they pump out almost almost 5 times as much as the US.

127 brookly red  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:36:55pm

re: #119 jaunte

Chavez has a pr problem:

some people are buying it...

128 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:38:00pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout

And mine works offshore. He's rarely home on holidays. Won't be home for Christmas this year. *sniff*

I feel your pain!

Two elderly sisters live down the block, 86 and 93 and walk their dog by my house. The elder one was a bit sickly. Yesterday I see the younger lady walking alone and I thought, "Oh geez...." Sure enough, her sister passed last month.

I feel so bad for her. I think I'll take her something baked and yummy. Make us both feel better.

129 jaunte  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:38:18pm

re: #121 Sharmuta

It's hard to get away from oil when your entire economy is based on selling it. He's going to blame capitalism.

130 jaunte  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:38:48pm

Meeting time. See you later.

131 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:38:58pm

re: #126 karmic_inquisitor

But per capita emissions are lower than the US, so that's the figure they'll flog.

It all depends on where you sit.

132 Gus  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:39:34pm

re: #129 jaunte

It's hard to get away from oil when your entire economy is based on selling it. He's going to blame capitalism American imperialists!

FTFY

133 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:40:25pm

re: #129 jaunte

It's hard to get away from oil when your entire economy is based on selling it. He's going to blame capitalism.

Maybe markos could help him with that.

134 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:41:24pm

Birthrates by country

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Poverty leads to more babies. Unstratified economies with no social services / pension system means your kids are your security/workforce. And poor child health means you have more to increase your odds of them living to adulthood.

135 Gus  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:41:38pm

And while Pakistan is spitting on our face...

Accused Qaeda Detainees May Be Tried in Brooklyn

Justice Department officials in Washington are close to deciding whether to prosecute several accused Al Qaeda operatives currently being held in the military prison in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, in federal court in Brooklyn, according to people briefed on the matter.
...
The decision will be made by Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., in consultation with the secretary of defense, Robert M. Gates; officials were expected to announce the plans in the coming days.
...

136 transient  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:42:05pm

There are only two words from Ahmadinejad, Chavez, or Mugabe that would interest me:

"I resign."

Not holding my breath.

137 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:42:47pm

re: #136 transient

There are only two words from Ahmadinejad, Chavez, or Mugabe that would interest me:

"I resign."

Not holding my breath.

"I surrender."

138 BruceKelly  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:43:14pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout

And mine works offshore. He's rarely home on holidays. Won't be home for Christmas this year. *sniff*

I worked offshore for several years. I was single-no kids. It wouldn't be ten minutes after getting on the boat that guys would start talking around me about how many holidays they'd missed with the family - knowing I'd ride over for one of them.

139 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:45:14pm

re: #131 lawhawk

But per capita emissions are lower than the US, so that's the figure they'll flog.

It all depends on where you sit.

At current relative GDP, population and carbon growth rates (factoring in China's soft commitment to cut carbon intensity 45%) China will have a higher carbon footprint per person in about 20 to 30 years. They will have CO2 output in 33 years (after all of these promised "cuts" ) that will have China belching more CO2 each year than the entire world does now.

350 PPM? Try 450 before they run out of excuses.

140 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:46:33pm

re: #128 marjoriemoon

I feel your pain!

Two elderly sisters live down the block, 86 and 93 and walk their dog by my house. The elder one was a bit sickly. Yesterday I see the younger lady walking alone and I thought, "Oh geez..." Sure enough, her sister passed last month.

I feel so bad for her. I think I'll take her something baked and yummy. Make us both feel better.

Yes it would!
{marjoriemoon}

141 BruceKelly  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:46:39pm

re: #125 Gearhead

Now I know what to get you two for Christmas: Bunny slippers

Run Away! Run Away!

142 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:47:21pm

re: #138 BruceKelly

I worked offshore for several years. I was single-no kids. It wouldn't be ten minutes after getting on the boat that guys would start talking around me about how many holidays they'd missed with the family - knowing I'd ride over for one of them.

That's what hubby did when he was single. Sadly, few seem to think of doing that these days.

143 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:49:45pm

re: #139 karmic_inquisitor

At current relative GDP, population and carbon growth rates (factoring in China's soft commitment to cut carbon intensity 45%) China will have a higher carbon footprint per person in about 20 to 30 years. They will have CO2 output in 33 years (after all of these promised "cuts" ) that will have China belching more CO2 each year than the entire world does now.

350 PPM? Try 450 before they run out of excuses.

The UN is so concerned about this, they blamed future CO2 on babies.

I guess China gets a pass on everything. Let's go back to kicking America.

144 What, me worry?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 12:59:32pm

re: #143 Sharmuta

The UN is so concerned about this, they blamed future CO2 on babies.

I guess China gets a pass on everything. Let's go back to kicking America.

Like I mentioned prior, urban China is filthy. Incredible pollution. Worse than L.A. Do you remember the biking footage during the Olympics?

The problem is that most of the country is still rural so when they say the U.S. is the worst polluter, that may be true. All our cities are industrialized. Millions of Chinese still live in caves. If all those people were industrialized, they'd beat us by miles.

145 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 1:03:04pm

re: #143 Sharmuta

The UN is so concerned about this, they blamed future CO2 on babies.

I guess China gets a pass on everything. Let's go back to kicking America.

If you look at who China is manipulating with its current campaign for "developing" countries (eg - pay a guilt tax to China, please), the world's population offenders are in that group - the G77.

In their latest news release of highest moral urgency, the G77 scolds the world for not building office space for the G77 quickly enough.

146 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 1:05:31pm

re: #144 marjoriemoon

Like I mentioned prior, urban China is filthy. Incredible pollution. Worse than L.A. Do you remember the biking footage during the Olympics?

The problem is that most of the country is still rural so when they say the U.S. is the worst polluter, that may be true. All our cities are industrialized. Millions of Chinese still live in caves. If all those people were industrialized, they'd beat us by miles.

Which is why these poor countries have banded together to complain today about how they aren't able to funnel Human Resources Management contracts to cronies.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 1:25:15pm

re: #30 Alouette

I can't wait for all the screams of "genocide!" "torture!" "war crimes!" "starvation!" and "apartheid!" against Egypt.

You're right. You can't wait. You'll get hungry.

148 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 1:32:41pm

re: #144 marjoriemoon

Like I mentioned prior, urban China is filthy. Incredible pollution. Worse than L.A. Do you remember the biking footage during the Olympics?

The problem is that most of the country is still rural so when they say the U.S. is the worst polluter, that may be true. All our cities are industrialized. Millions of Chinese still live in caves. If all those people were industrialized, they'd beat us by miles.

Couldn't agree more. that's why calculating emissions per capita is trash math. emissions per GDP is the only way to go about it (because reducing emissions by reducing GDP is a tactic these thugs would love to institutionalize)

149 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 1:33:28pm

re: #146 karmic_inquisitor

Which is why these poor countries have banded together to complain today about how they aren't able to funnel Human Resources Management contracts to cronies.

Somehow i have the feeling that when Sudan says 'human resources', they're using the term differently than you or i would. Just a feeling.

150 MPH  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 3:30:28pm

This is the United Nations. Giving dictators a platform is par for the course.

The UN is not an organization currently capable of dealing seriously with the world's energy needs going into the future.

151 MPH  Mon, Dec 14, 2009 3:32:52pm

re: #4 lawhawk

Any decision that happens will come only when the rich nations decide to subsidize the poor ones

...and that is the real point of Copenhagen -- for the power elite to control the growth of emerging economies...get them on the dole, quick!


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