Facts Not a Stumbling Block for Malkin

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Michelle Malkin rants again: Public school lunacy of the day:

A second-grader in Taunton, MA was kicked out of school, suspended, and ordered to undergo a mental evaluation for…

…drawing a picture of Jesus Christ on the cross.

(Hat tip: Michael Graham)

One picture of Jesus gets a kid booted from the classroom.

But Fort Hood killer Nidal Hasan’s years of jihadist threats got him…a promotion and access to open season on our troops.

And GLSEN founder Kevin Jennings’ not-safe-for-school radical activism got him…a job as Safe Schools czar.

Lunacy.

Of course, there are a few problems with Malkin’s description of the story. For example, the fact that it’s not true at all.

Taunton officials dispute reports on Jesus sketch.

School officials say that the account in yesterday’s Taunton Daily Gazette was rife with errors and that the father’s description of what happened is untrue.

“The report is totally inaccurate,’’ Julie Hackett, superintendent of the Taunton public schools, said in an interview in her office yesterday. “The inaccuracies in the original media story have resulted in a great deal of criticism and scrutiny of the system that is unwarranted.’’

Dino F. Ciliberti, editor of the Gazette, did not return calls yesterday.

Hackett said the student, age 9, was never suspended and that neither he nor other students at the Maxham Elementary School were asked by the teacher to sketch something that reminded them of Christmas or any religious holiday, as the Gazette and other media reported and the father suggested, although his story changed as he explained it.

She said it was unclear whether the boy, who put his name above a stick figure portrait of Christ on the cross, had drawn the picture in school, which his teacher discovered Dec. 2.

Religion had nothing to do with this at all, 100 percent nothing to do with it,’’ Hackett said, adding that Taunton is known as “The Christmas City.’’

Another little detail that Malkin failed to mention is that the child drew a picture of himself on the cross, not “Jesus Christ.” And he even labeled it with his own name.

But why let measly old facts get in the way of a good “Christian persecution” rant?

UPDATE at 12/16/09 3:44:04 pm:

A representative comment at Malkin’s site, out of hundreds of similar comments:

On December 15th, 2009 at 10:12 am, b-cat said:

Satan is running the school system.

And they’re yelling for the teacher to be hunted down and exposed:

On December 15th, 2009 at 10:43 am, RedDog said:

ordered to undergo a mental evaluation for…

Ordered by whom? That person should be publicly exposed (along with the apparatchik school teacher who informed on the child) then reprimanded. The reprimand should become part of her “permanent record”.

Jump to bottom

828 comments
1 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:33:48pm

You know what the Pope and the NY Jets have in common?

Both can get 70,000 people at Giants Stadium to stand up and shout "Jesus Christ."

2 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:34:12pm
3 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:34:35pm

Every damn time I see the name of that town I picture Hoth.

4 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:35:01pm

The kid drew a picture of HIMSELF on a cross.

Psychiatric intervention was definitely called for.

5 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:35:11pm

Please note, at the top of the thread:

Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"

6 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:35:42pm

re: #4 Alouette

The kid drew a picture of HIMSELF on a cross.

Psychiatric intervention was definitely called for.

Yep, she didn't mention that little detail either.

7 SpaceJesus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:35:44pm

i would have suspended him too, that's not what i look like at all

8 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:36:38pm

re: #7 SpaceJesus

I'm still waiting for you to reveal yourself to me.

9 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:36:51pm

Perfect! A Dad-made Christmas controversy. Exactly what the right wing websites and cable news asked for.

10 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:37:35pm

re: #7 SpaceJesus

i would have suspended him too, that's not what i look like at all

Sorry but I had to upding you for that, too bad about your red karma.

11 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:37:59pm

Six lines of unhinged paranoid pablum.

One cannot help but notice the disassociated content delivered as an incendiary device to bring her audience into a seething rage by referencing Islam and homosexuality.

12 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:38:11pm

re: #10 Alouette

Sorry but I had to upding you for that, too bad about your red karma.

I think he likes it.

13 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:38:25pm

re: #8 JasonA

I'm still waiting for you to reveal yourself to me.

/this is gonna be bad...

14 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:38:58pm

re: #4 Alouette

The kid drew a picture of HIMSELF on a cross.

Psychiatric intervention was definitely called for.

I think it's easy to see why the kid might feel that way. His father obviously has some issues and is lying to the press to make his son out as a martyr. I suspect this is a regular occurrence in that household.

15 Cathypop  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:41:11pm

This child has some serious problems and his father is a jack-ass. My hearth goes out to that young boy.

16 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:41:22pm

A representative comment:

On December 15th, 2009 at 10:12 am, b-cat said:

Satan is running the school system.

17 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:42:11pm

And they're yelling for the teacher to be hunted down and exposed:

On December 15th, 2009 at 10:43 am, RedDog said:

ordered to undergo a mental evaluation for…

Ordered by whom? That person should be publicly exposed (along with the apparatchik school teacher who informed on the child) then reprimanded. The reprimand should become part of her “permanent record”.

18 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:42:50pm

re: #16 Charles

Satan is running the school system

Could explain the chili-mac.

19 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:43:04pm

re: #17 Charles

And they're yelling for the teacher to be hunted down and exposed:

You know what? I don't see this ending well for the teacher. Shameful.

20 Cathypop  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:43:30pm

re: #17 Charles
Those idiots are stuck on stupid!

21 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:45:04pm

/I was thinking of starting a web based business... how does tourches&pitchforks.com sound?

22 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:45:38pm

It's stuff like this that are making teachers more and more reticent to intervene and get help for kids when there's a real problem, like it very likely is for this boy. If there's anything sinful here, that's it.

23 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:45:45pm

re: #21 brookly red

/I was thinking of starting a web based business... how does tourches&pitchforks.com sound?

Sound misspelled.

24 wiffersnapper  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:46:43pm

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Porches and titchforks

25 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:46:59pm

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Sound misspelled.

how did I just know it would be you to tell me...

26 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:47:56pm

re: #24 wiffersnapper

Porches and titchforks

I havn't had THAT many :)

27 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:48:17pm

re: #17 Charles

And they're yelling for the teacher to be hunted down and exposed:

Par for the course with Malkin, who has also spent time stalking a 12 year old and his family and encouraging others to do so.

Also par for the course: no retraction or apology or admission that she's gotten anything wrong. And the rabid lunatics who froth in her comments will never know she did get anything wrong, because they prefer to spend all their time in the FactFree Zone.

28 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:48:59pm

Be back soon. My kids are taking me out to dinner for my birthday.

29 Cathypop  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:49:28pm

re: #28 Alouette
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

30 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:49:29pm

re: #28 Alouette

Be back soon. My kids are taking me out to dinner for my birthday.

Happy Birthday!!

31 wiffersnapper  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:49:32pm

re: #26 brookly red

You just wait!

32 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:49:35pm

re: #28 Alouette

many happy returns!

33 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:50:09pm

I feel for that kid since he might have issues and I have a feeling his dad might be one of them.
Also he is now on Malkin's radar...so is the teacher.
I wonder how soon before Malkin is peering though the windows of this teacher's home, checking to see what kind of counters she has and if she attends church or not?

34 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:50:49pm

Most of the Lizards would be offended if I said what I think about this incident and religion in general, all religion. So, I'll just chime in a say these people are pious assholes (holy shit).

35 simoom  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:51:24pm

I'm sure O'Reilly will be all over this one too. He's always on the lookout for more "War on Christmas" material:

36 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:51:40pm

Interesting how hordes of people who've never met this kid have an opinion on this. One drawing by itself is not indicative of mental (un)health. And as for Malkin, well, she's obviously using the boy. Shameless.

37 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:52:36pm

re: #35 simoom

I'm sure O'Reilly will be all over this one too. He's always on the lookout for more "War on Christmas" material:

[Video]

Well, we won't really know unless he does? But let's get pissed about O'Reilly now before we know for sure... hell... why not?

38 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:52:49pm

re: #33 webevintage

I feel for that kid since he might have issues and I have a feeling his dad might be one of them.
Also he is now on Malkin's radar...so is the teacher.
I wonder how soon before Malkin is peering though the windows of this teacher's home, checking to see what kind of counters she has and if she attends church or not?

that is messed up... what people do on their counters none of her biz!

39 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:53:13pm

re: #36 JasonA

Interesting how hordes of people who've never met this kid have an opinion on this. One drawing by itself is not indicative of mental (un)health

As a teacher who sees the boy every day and interacts with him, it's most likely she had other concerns as well as this, or she would never have stuck her neck out. We sure see the consequences of that.

40 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:53:29pm

Checking facts could lead to the cancellation of a good old grievance party. Best not to. /wingnut logic

41 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:54:15pm

Watch - this is definitely going to be on O'Reilly's show.

42 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:54:49pm

"This thread brought to you by Townhall.com." Love it.

43 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:55:10pm

re: #39 allegro

As a teacher who sees the boy every day and interacts with him, it's most likely she had other concerns as well as this, or she would never have stuck her neck out. We sure see the consequences of that.

Nothing is most likely since we don't know shit about the mental state of the child, or the father. This is bullshit for sure, but do we look any better when we start deciding that there is this issue or that issue when we have no more info about the state of this kid and his family as Malkin had about the incident?

Interesting how mirrors work.

44 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:56:28pm

re: #42 Decatur Deb

"This thread brought to you by Townhall.com." Love it.

If I knew it came right out of MM's pocket when I clicked on that, I'd need a new mouse soon.

45 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:57:16pm

re: #43 Walter L. Newton

Nothing is most likely since we don't know shit about the mental state of the child, or the father. This is bullshit for sure, but do we look any better when we start deciding that there is this issue or that issue when we have no more info about the state of this kid and his family as Malkin had about the incident?

Interesting how mirrors work.

I don't see anyone who has "decided" anything about the boy. And I stand behind my "mostly likely" because the teacher saw something that concerned her and she wanted to get help for a boy she felt might be in trouble. I see that concern from a teacher, a professional, as a good thing.

46 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:57:57pm

re: #44 wrenchwench

Doesn't Charles get paid if we fail to click this stuff?

47 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:58:53pm

re: #45 allegro

I don't see anyone who has "decided" anything about the boy. And I stand behind my "mostly likely" because the teacher saw something that concerned her and she wanted to get help for a boy she felt might be in trouble. I see that concern from a teacher, a professional, as a good thing.

Fine, if you want to make unsupported "mostly likely" suppositions about the situation, go for it.

48 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 3:58:57pm

re: #40 Jimmah

Checking facts could lead to the cancellation of a good old grievance party. Best not to. /wingnut logic

Seems like they take any story that may fit there agenda and adjust the facts to fit a particular meme. In this case Malkin fits the story with the "war on Christians" meme but adds several sub-meme. Her reference to Hasan is a meme of Islam and anti-government sentiment specifically against the US Army. Then she references Jennings which includes homophobic subtexts including the Obama administration. Of course, recently, most of these unhinged blogged screeds lead to Obama -- that is "all right-wing blog roads lead to Obama."

49 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:01:59pm
50 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:02:49pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Seems like they take any story that may fit there agenda and adjust the facts to fit a particular meme. In this case Malkin fits the story with the "war on Christians" meme but adds several sub-meme. Her reference to Hasan is a meme of Islam and anti-government sentiment specifically against the US Army. Then she references Jennings which includes homophobic subtexts including the Obama administration. Of course, recently, most of these unhinged blogged screeds lead to Obama -- that is "all right-wing blog roads lead to Obama."

A triple whammy with icing on the top.

51 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:04:08pm

re: #50 Stanley Sea

A triple whammy with icing on the top.

Yep. And there's more! They also get to drag out their other tired talking points against public schools and of course the proverbial teachers union. When in doubt, blame the unions. Even if it's based on fiction.

52 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:04:25pm
That person should be publicly exposed (along with the apparatchik school teacher who informed on the child) then reprimanded. The reprimand should become part of her “permanent record”.

Just a second - I thought that REAL conservatives insist on local control of schools and don't think there should be oppressive, outsider meddling in what a community decides to do or teach in schools.

So I am forced to conclude that there are a lot of RINOs over at Hot Air.

53 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:05:52pm

re: #41 Charles

Watch - this is definitely going to be on O'Reilly's show.

"War on Christmas, this is" - SoCon Yoda

54 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:06:38pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Seems like they take any story that may fit there agenda and adjust the facts to fit a particular meme. In this case Malkin fits the story with the "war on Christians" meme but adds several sub-meme. Her reference to Hasan is a meme of Islam and anti-government sentiment specifically against the US Army. Then she references Jennings which includes homophobic subtexts including the Obama administration. Of course, recently, most of these unhinged blogged screeds lead to Obama -- that is "all right-wing blog roads lead to Obama."

Michelle Malkin's House o' Crazy: 38 flavors with bile on top.

55 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:07:12pm

re: #54 iceweasel

Michelle Malkin's House o' Crazy: 38 flavors with bile on top.

Mrs. Creosote

/

56 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:07:23pm

re: #46 Decatur Deb

Doesn't Charles get paid if we fail to click this stuff?

I think different ads pay different ways. Clicks definitely pay on some ads. This morning though, I clicked on one of the "infolinks" ads, and it put in a redirect that made the back button not work. That was annoying, but I knew how to get back.

57 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:07:57pm

Malkin's been dwelling in the shit sewer for so long, she'll assemble any combination of untruths to hammer home her point. Nice, how she piggybacked the debunked bullshit about "fistgate" also. What's a little lie, when you can lie big? Pile 'em on.

I can't tell where her nose ends and Limbaugh's ass begins. Or VDARE, or any of her other shitfuckingcrazy right wing extremist alliances, for that matter. The cheese slid off Malkin's cracker awhile ago. This isn't a first for her, and certainly not the last.

58 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:08:05pm

re: #53 karmic_inquisitor

"War on Christmas, this is" - SoCon Yoda

More like a premature Calvary charge in the War on Holy Week.

59 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:08:11pm

re: #56 wrenchwench

I think different ads pay different ways. Clicks definitely pay on some ads. This morning though, I clicked on one of the "infolinks" ads, and it put in a redirect that made the back button not work. That was annoying, but I knew how to get back.

Middle-Mouse clicks work wonders. =)

60 humpty dumpty was pushed  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:08:40pm

I`m a Jesus dude but I gotta eye-roll the sanctimonious people who search for affronts to their Christianity at Christmas time each year. It is tedious and predictable. Religious drawings generally should not be encouraged or repressed in schools because it is a private matter. If you`ve raised kids you know 2nd graders are likely to sign a drawing anywhere on the artwork so don`t read too much into his signature above Jesus. It`s possible a 7 year old thinks he`s being crucified in a metaphorical way or even that he is God, but not probable.

61 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:09:54pm

OMG...I just made SpaceJesus get -666 Karma!

62 djughurknot  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:10:31pm

9_9 sigh...

63 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:10:36pm

Rewriting Our History, Changing Our TraditionsBy Glenn Beck

Teachers of a second grade class in Taunton, Massachusetts gave an assignment to their class: Make a Christmas drawing, something that reminds you of the holidays. One of the 8-year-old students knew exactly what he'd draw. He and his family had just visited nearby National Shrine of Our Lady of La Salette where they have crucifixion statues. So, the little boy drew a stick figure Jesus hanging on the cross. Makes sense: Christmas is, after all, Jesus' birthday and the crucifix was fresh in his mind.

Now, imagine an 8-year-old boy. He must have been so excited to see how the teachers would react. Like Ralphie in the movie "A Christmas Story," eager to win his teacher's approval of the Red Rider story he concocted. And just like when Ralphie's teacher responded with a "You'll shoot your eyes out" reaction, this boy was also completely devastated. Instead of reacting with praise, the teachers immediately sent him home and ordered that he undergo a psychological evaluation.

Where is the common sense? The principle says "school safety protocols" in place that were followed. They had a safety net in place — great — but they still thought a picture of Jesus fit in the risk category?

64 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:10:50pm

re: #61 Summer

OMG...I just made SpaceJesus get -666 Karma!

65 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:11:11pm

Even Fox News provides a balanced report:

[Link: video.foxnews.com...]

I know I may be a little cynical here but it might be possible that the father is seeing dollar signs.

66 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:11:13pm

re: #28 Alouette

Bappy Hirthday

67 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:11:39pm

I just took a screenshot. Hang on I'll post it in a minute. Priceless!

68 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:11:54pm

re: #65 Gus 802

as long as he renders unto ceaser............

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:12:17pm

re: #4 Alouette

The kid drew a picture of HIMSELF on a cross.

Psychiatric intervention was definitely called for.

I don't know. Catullus did pretty well with that image. And honestly, isn't it how we all feel around the holidays?

//

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:12:58pm

re: #8 JasonA

I'm still waiting for you to reveal yourself to me.

Dude, he talks to you on a political blog. How much more revealed does it get?

71 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:13:08pm

re: #57 theheat

Malkin's been dwelling in the shit sewer for so long, she'll assemble any combination of untruths to hammer home her point. Nice, how she piggybacked the debunked bullshit about "fistgate" also. What's a little lie, when you can lie big? Pile 'em on.

I can't tell where her nose ends and Limbaugh's ass begins. Or VDARE, or any of her other shitfuckingcrazy right wing extremist alliances, for that matter. The cheese slid off Malkin's cracker awhile ago. This isn't a first for her, and certainly not the last.

That "fistgate" nonsense has been gaining traction on the crazy blogs. They've been pushing that one for a while, as well as various other homophobic smears about Kevin Jennings. Just as we've seen racism break out into the open in some really surprising and awful ways under the Obama presidency, homophobia is making a comeback as well (not that homophobia ever really went away.)

The homophobia dogwhistle worked very well for years to rally the so-cons and theocrats to vote for Bush (inflaming fears about gay marriage and homosexual agendas); it's no surprise that, just as the so-cons and theocrats are ascendent in the party, the old homophobia rallying techniques are making a comeback too.

72 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:13:26pm

re: #61 Summer

OMG...I just made SpaceJesus get -666 Karma!

It'll be a true sign of the Apocalypse when he reaches 666 karma!
:)

73 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:13:56pm

re: #57 theheat

Malkin's been dwelling in the shit sewer for so long, she'll assemble any combination of untruths to hammer home her point. Nice, how she piggybacked the debunked bullshit about "fistgate" also. What's a little lie, when you can lie big? Pile 'em on.

I can't tell where her nose ends and Limbaugh's ass begins. Or VDARE, or any of her other shitfuckingcrazy right wing extremist alliances, for that matter. The cheese slid off Malkin's cracker awhile ago. This isn't a first for her, and certainly not the last.

The cheese slid off Malkin's cracker awhile ago!

Love it.

74 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:14:38pm

re: #72 Varek Raith

It'll be a true sign of the Apocalypse when he reaches 666 karma!
:)

you can blame me! =) I'm uploading it to Picasa in a min. =)

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:15:31pm

re: #11 Gus 802

Six lines of unhinged paranoid pablum.

One cannot help but notice the disassociated content delivered as an incendiary device to bring her audience into a seething rage by referencing Islam and homosexuality.

You see, a choice had to be made. Do we arrest a terrorist before he strikes, or do we persecute a little Christian child, the kind who ends up in a bottle of Kabbalah Vodka, or learning about fisting from Barack Obama's BFF, for expressing his faith in a public school? As you can see, we made that choice.

//

76 koedo  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:15:35pm

MM and lot of other outlets got it wrong. I live in Massachusetts and it was widely reported in many of the regions newspapers. So, picking out MM singularly seems unfair since the list of those who made the same mistake is very large. I suspect the story made it to the wire services, looked nice and juicy and apropos for the season and there you go.

A quick google search will confirm this.

77 Haole  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:16:47pm

OT Howard Dean on Hardball right now.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:16:59pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

I think it's easy to see why the kid might feel that way. His father obviously has some issues and is lying to the press to make his son out as a martyr. I suspect this is a regular occurrence in that household.

I have to wonder.

79 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:16:59pm

re: #76 koedo

MM and lot of other outlets got it wrong. I live in Massachusetts and it was widely reported in many of the regions newspapers. So, picking out MM singularly seems unfair since the list of those who made the same mistake is very large. I suspect the story made it to the wire services, looked nice and juicy and apropos for the season and there you go.

A quick google search will confirm this.

MM couldn't give two shits about it being wrong.

80 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:17:12pm

re: #71 iceweasel

That "fistgate" nonsense has been gaining traction on the crazy blogs. They've been pushing that one for a while, as well as various other homophobic smears about Kevin Jennings. Just as we've seen racism break out into the open in some really surprising and awful ways under the Obama presidency, homophobia is making a comeback as well (not that homophobia ever really went away.)

The homophobia dogwhistle worked very well for years to rally the so-cons and theocrats to vote for Bush (inflaming fears about gay marriage and homosexual agendas); it's no surprise that, just as the so-cons and theocrats are ascendent in the party, the old homophobia rallying techniques are making a comeback too.

Maybe we need Cheney back with his shotgun. Keep 'em in line.

/

81 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:17:36pm

In Wingnutland, the only sound that matters is the applause of your fellow wingnuts.

82 darthstar  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:17:47pm

Not that it's relevant, but that was a pretty crappy picture of Jesus. I know, this is a non-story/major blow to the Obama administration/reason Global Warming is a myth/[insert_crisis_here]...I'm just saying it wouldn't make it onto my refrigerator.

Neither would Malkin, by the way (make it onto my refrigerator, that is).

/ humor, people.

83 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:18:52pm

I predict that there will come a controversy in the coming years that will involve a gate.

And that controversy will engage wingnut minds and several bloggers will name it "gategate!" Given the speed at which these minds operate, it will be several days before the name is declared.

Then the bloggers will fight over who gets credit for the name.

This I predict.

84 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:19:10pm

re: #76 koedo

MM and lot of other outlets got it wrong. I live in Massachusetts and it was widely reported in many of the regions newspapers. So, picking out MM singularly wingularity seems unfair since the list of those who made the same mistake is very large. I suspect the story made it to the wire services, looked nice and juicy and apropos for the season and there you go.

A quick google search will confirm this.

Really. And the news around the state brought up Nidal Hassan and Kevin Jennings?

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:19:36pm

re: #33 webevintage

I feel for that kid since he might have issues and I have a feeling his dad might be one of them.
Also he is now on Malkin's radar...so is the teacher.
I wonder how soon before Malkin is peering though the windows of this teacher's home, checking to see what kind of counters she has and if she attends church or not?

If I were that teacher, I might exercise my Second Amendment rights. Either it might make Malkin's minions like me better, or it might encourage them to keep their distance.

86 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:19:54pm

re: #71 iceweasel

The homophobia dogwhistle worked very well for years to rally the so-cons and theocrats to vote for Bush (inflaming fears about gay marriage and homosexual agendas); it's no surprise that, just as the so-cons and theocrats are ascendent in the party, the old homophobia rallying techniques are making a comeback too.

Oh, you mean like this homophobic online funhouse?

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:20:17pm

re: #37 Walter L. Newton

Well, we won't really know unless he does? But let's get pissed about O'Reilly now before we know for sure... hell... why not?

O'Reilly never lets me down.

88 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:20:18pm

Here it is! Grab a copy!

[Link: picasaweb.google.com...]

89 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:20:56pm

re: #81 Jimmah

In Wingnutland, the only sound that matters is the applause of your fellow wingnuts.

So if a Wingnut falls from a tree in a forest and no one is there to go apoplectic and blame liberal degenerates, does he make a sound?

90 political lunatic  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:21:08pm

So, instead of getting this kid the help he needs, because the kid drew himself on a cross, the right wing would say to the teacher who wants to help the boy: "F*** you, this kid is obviously means by the picture he wants to live like Jesus!"?

Science H. Logic!!! WTF is it with these people? There are way too many theocrats in this country for me to not be a little afraid.

91 darthstar  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:21:50pm

re: #82 darthstar

oops...just read again and didn't realize the kid was drawing himself on the cross...please disregard my previous sarcasm

92 Lidane  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:21:55pm

re: #76 koedo

MM and lot of other outlets got it wrong.

Pfft. When has that ever stopped her? She's all about whipping her fellow loons into a frenzy. Little things like critical thinking and fact checking would only get in the way.

93 koedo  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:22:59pm

Even the mayor of Taunton got caught on this one.

[Link: www.tauntongazette.com...]

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:23:06pm

re: #43 Walter L. Newton

Nothing is most likely since we don't know shit about the mental state of the child, or the father. This is bullshit for sure, but do we look any better when we start deciding that there is this issue or that issue when we have no more info about the state of this kid and his family as Malkin had about the incident?

Interesting how mirrors work.

I have no idea if the picture indicate a troubled mental state, but I do know that as a teacher it would have raised a flag for me.

The father, on the other hand, has taken to the press being around very happily, and seems to have already figured out exactly how much money it will take to salve the insult to his faith.

I've pegged the dad for a schmuck, and it's going to take a bit to change my mind. Since I don't know him, or he me, I doubt this will keep him up nights.

95 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:23:08pm

re: #83 karmic_inquisitor

I predict that there will come a controversy in the coming years that will involve a gate.

And that controversy will engage wingnut minds and several bloggers will name it "gategate!" Given the speed at which these minds operate, it will be several days before the name is declared.

Then the bloggers will fight over who gets credit for the name.

This I predict.

Too late. The Pres. snubbed RR and the entire German people with Brandenburg Gate no-show.

96 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:24:45pm

Hehe it's nice to make LGF history. =)

97 koedo  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:24:47pm

I'm just saying many people and organizations got it wrong. That's it and it's true.

98 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:26:30pm

re: #96 Summer

Hehe it's nice to make LGF history. =)

You do realize SJ will cross -666 several times before Whitsuntide.

99 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:26:44pm

re: #92 Lidane

Pfft. When has that ever stopped her? She's all about whipping her fellow loons into a frenzy. Little things like critical thinking and fact checking would only get in the way.

Kind of like criticisms made about the Cambridge PD and Officer Crowley by a certain DC resident? Or does it only apply to Malkin and other rightwing types?

100 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:27:10pm

re: #88 Summer

Here it is! Grab a copy!

[Link: picasaweb.google.com...]

I see a perfect Christmas present (framed of course).

101 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:27:14pm

re: #99 soxfan4life

Kind of like criticisms made about the Cambridge PD and Officer Crowley by a certain DC resident? Or does it only apply to Malkin and other rightwing types?

That guy acted "stupidly"

102 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:27:33pm

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

O'Reilly never lets me down.

He may talk about it, but the story is several hours old. Chances are he'll be semi-balanced and far less crazy than Malkin.

103 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:28:29pm

re: #102 Dark_Falcon

He may talk about it, but the story is several hours old. Chances are he'll be semi-balanced and far less crazy than Malkin.

I'll say this for BillO; he does surprise me every now and then. MM? No surprises whatsoever.

104 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:28:32pm

re: #98 Decatur Deb

You do realize SJ will cross -666 several times before Whitsuntide.

Hehe yes, but I can't believe I made him hit it and captured the moment. That's what counts. =)

105 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:28:43pm

re: #101 rwdflynavy

That guy acted "stupidly"

President Obama didn't let fact checking or critical thinking get in his way to jump into the fray.

106 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:29:01pm

re: #99 soxfan4life

Kind of like criticisms made about the Cambridge PD and Officer Crowley by a certain DC resident? Or does it only apply to Malkin and other rightwing types?

I would say that it seems a little more important for a president to be sure of the facts before making public comments, than a blogger.
But that's just my opinion.

107 Lidane  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:29:01pm

re: #99 soxfan4life

Kind of like criticisms made about the Cambridge PD and Officer Crowley by a certain DC resident? Or does it only apply to Malkin and other rightwing types?

It applies to anyone on any side who shoots their mouth off first before knowing what's going on. Liberal, conservative, whatever. I don't much care what side that person is on. If they can't even get the basic facts of the story right, why should their opinion be taken seriously?

108 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:29:08pm

re: #99 soxfan4life

Kind of like criticisms made about the Cambridge PD and Officer Crowley by a certain DC resident? Or does it only apply to Malkin and other rightwing types?

Hang on let me check.

OK, just checked and the title of this thread is Facts Not a Stumbling Block for Malkin.

109 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:30:00pm

Well, I would say, as a parent, that the teacher might have talked to the parent about her concerns, but it looks like Dad is a real treat, and she might have known that.

110 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:30:01pm

Tu quoque sure seems in style for some...

111 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:30:12pm

re: #81 Jimmah

In Wingnutland, the only sound that matters is the applause of your fellow wingnuts.

In Wingnutland, there is no sound but screaming. :(

Yours needs to be tweeted with a #tcot tag! Do it, do it!

112 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:30:37pm

re: #108 Gus 802

Hang on let me check.

OK, just checked and the title of this thread is Facts Not a Stumbling Block for Malkin.

I was commenting on fact checking and critical thinking. And if it only applied to right wingers. Thanks for answering in the affirmative.

113 koedo  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:30:46pm

I guess Gus has never gone tangential or expanded the parameters of a thread.

114 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:30:54pm

re: #4 Alouette

The kid drew a picture of HIMSELF on a cross.

Psychiatric intervention was definitely called for.

The 48 hour rule is our friend, in these stories.

115 JEA62  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:31:12pm

Hey! I can rant without regard to facts TOO! Gimme a f---ing national column!!

116 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:31:26pm

re: #113 koedo

I guess Gus has never gone tangential or expanded the parameters of a thread.

Come on, that never happens here! We always stay on topic!!!
//

117 djughurknot  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:31:28pm

"Your Taunton will freeze before you reach the first marker...!"

"Then I'll see you in Hell!"

It IS Christmastime...

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:31:35pm

re: #105 soxfan4life

President Obama didn't let fact checking or critical thinking get in his way to jump into the fray.

I wouldn't vote for Michelle Malkin for President, if that's what you're hinting at.

119 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:31:58pm

re: #110 Varek Raith

Tu quoque sure seems in style for some...

Tu quoque is the new pink.

120 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:32:30pm

re: #113 koedo

I guess Gus has never gone tangential or expanded the parameters of a thread.

Expanding parameters is only acceptable to go on about AGW, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, or whatever the outrage over the right du jour is.

121 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:32:58pm

re: #108 Gus 802

Hang on let me check.

OK, just checked and the title of this thread is Facts Not a Stumbling Block for Malkin.

Meh, some stopped reading at "Facts not a stumbling block" and decided to take that as a directive. :)

122 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:33:02pm

re: #110 Varek Raith

Tu quoque sure seems in style for some...

Like this?

Image: By-the-addition-of-some-good-plumes-the-simple-toque-becomes.jpg

123 JEA62  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:33:11pm

re: #114 The Sanity Inspector


If the poor kid's drawing a picture of himself on a cross, that's a cry for help. I hope he gets it.

124 koedo  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:33:41pm

not fuchsia?

125 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:33:59pm

re: #123 JEA62

It could also be some serious religious confusion. He's young.

126 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:34:05pm

re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't vote for Michelle Malkin for President, if that's what you're hinting at.

I wouldn't vote for Michelle Malkin for Class President.

127 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:35:02pm

re: #123 JEA62

If the poor kid's drawing a picture of himself on a cross, that's a cry for help. I hope he gets it.

Hmmm, I get the feeling that if some saw my artwork, they'd want me institutionalized...
;)

128 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:35:02pm

My child once drew me holding a really big knife. The teacher circled it with a "no", then, crossed those out when she realized I was also standing in front of a table with a cake on it.

129 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:35:06pm

Headline: Hotair
Michelle Maulkin blames Judas for 2nd grader's Crucification...
King Herod being questioned
/

130 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:35:12pm

re: #126 JasonA

I wouldn't vote for Michelle Malkin for Class President.

That's because she's got none.

131 Lidane  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:35:35pm

re: #110 Varek Raith

Tu quoque sure seems in style for some...

It's damn near the little black dress of political debate these days.

re: #123 JEA62

If the poor kid's drawing a picture of himself on a cross, that's a cry for help. I hope he gets it.

No kidding. I hope that kid gets whatever help he needs. I'd hate for the media frenzy over his drawing to overshadow any real signs of trouble in his life. :(

132 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:35:37pm

re: #130 iceweasel

Touche!

133 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:35:40pm

re: #111 iceweasel

In Wingnutland, there is no sound but screaming. :(

Yours needs to be tweeted with a #tcot tag! Do it, do it!


Done! :)

134 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:36:04pm

Malkin and her acolytes are heading towards outright witchhunts, complete with pitchforks, torches, and dragging teachers out of their houses to press them to death between stones.

In the next couple years, I am not going to be surprised one whit if the rhetoric by these subhumans results in another Scott Roeder type coming out of the woodwork to do harm to a teacher, a muslim parent, or any other target of the week.

135 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:36:11pm

re: #113 koedo

I guess Gus has never gone tangential or expanded the parameters of a thread.

Uh, I was just commenting back Butters. I don't have the ability to nor the inclination to direct the conversation here. If you want to segway to a conversation about "Obama done it too" have at it.

136 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:36:32pm

re: #117 djughurknot

"Your Taunton will freeze before you reach the first marker...!"

"Then I'll see you in Hell!"

It IS Christmastime...

"I'm afraid there's not much left. The troll must have a self-destruct."

"A stalker blog probe troll."

/Stay on Target!

137 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:36:36pm

re: #122 Decatur Deb

Like this?

[Link: chestofbooks.com...]

No, that's "toque OK".

/

138 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:36:39pm

re: #107 Lidane

If they can't even get the basic facts of the story right, why should their opinion be taken seriously?


So far, the only fact I see concerning this story is that there are two different stories being told revolving around a drawing.
Both sides could have a reason for being untruthful.

139 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:36:55pm

Just received from 'princerudolph@hushmail.com', with the title 'hey idiot':

the story was already on O'Reilly. If you're going to lie and smear, at least get your shit together.

BTW, you should put up a sign on your site..."Will blog for food" cause this place is starting look like shit with all the ad's and hits on your tip jar.

Merry Christmas jackass.

Feel the love!

140 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:37:06pm

re: #134 WindUpBird

Malkin and her acolytes are heading towards outright witchhunts, complete with pitchforks, torches, and dragging teachers out of their houses to press them to death between stones.

In the next couple years, I am not going to be surprised one whit if the rhetoric by these subhumans results in another Scott Roeder type coming out of the woodwork to do harm to a teacher, a muslim parent, or any other target of the week.

Windup, we usually see eye to eye but... a rhetorical lead-in to a gripe about rhetoric?

141 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:37:36pm

re: #138 captdiggs

So far, the only fact I see concerning this story is that there are two different stories being told revolving around a drawing.
Both sides could have a reason for being untruthful.

Yeah, right, because the school principal is going to lie about something that's very easily checked.

That makes a ton of sense.

Not.

142 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:37:55pm

re: #139 Charles

Just received from 'princerudolph@hushmail.com', with the title 'hey idiot':

Feel the love!

Another Rhodes scholar for sure.

143 koedo  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:38:01pm

OK Gus, you win. You have successfully protected your blog honor and I applaud you.

144 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:38:14pm

re: #139 Charles

Just received from 'princerudolph@hushmail.com', with the title 'hey idiot':

Feel the love!

They call themselves Christians, and they use that word a lot.

I do not think it means what they think it means.

145 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:38:39pm

re: #138 captdiggs

So far, the only fact I see concerning this story is that there are two different stories being told revolving around a drawing.
Both sides could have a reason for being untruthful.

Dude. Only one 'side' is trying to connect this to fort Hood, a war on christmas, kevin jennings, and the commie kitchen sink. That would be Malkin, who has a history of 1) getting the facts wrong 2) whipping people into a frenzy and 3) never, ever, apologising or retracting.

146 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:39:03pm

re: #142 rwdflynavy

Another Rhodes scholar for sure.

I think "Merry Christmas jackass" should get a rotating title.

Just in time for the holidays!

147 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:39:25pm

re: #123 JEA62

Or, maybe he was doodling about what he saw on his field trip, signed his name to it in what people think is an unconventional place, and people are freaking out over nothing. Hard to say. Maybe he's the next Picasso. I was drawing from the time I could hold a pencil, and drew some pretty freaky stuff. I had a wild imagination. Forty-some years later and I haven't tried to kill myself, nor killed anyone else - not even with a golf club. And the potential symbolism in the drawing itself is an aside to Malkin's smear this has something to do with slighting Christians, because she never mentions why someone might have been concerned. It didn't suit her purpose.

148 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:39:26pm

re: #141 Charles

Yeah, right, because the school principal is going to lie about something that's very easily checked.

That makes a ton of sense.

Not.

Charles, you don't think that schools practice a little CYA after a mistake that could cost a lawsuit?
Like I said, both sides could have motivation to lie.

149 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:39:52pm

Look - even her posters/commenters don't think she cares about the accuracy!

Post A I emailed MM the link. Here’s betting it won’t go up.

Post BI would take that bet (perhaps we can bet a glass of wine or beer if I’m ever in DC) however, I have a feeling you are right.

So Charles gets hate mail for saying what the folks on her site already know? Heeellllppp, the right has fallen and they can't get up...

sigh

150 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:40:47pm

re: #99 soxfan4life

Kind of like criticisms made about the Cambridge PD and Officer Crowley by a certain DC resident? Or does it only apply to Malkin and other rightwing types?

Yeah, let's compare criticizing a cop to a full-on witchhunt. Let's do that. Let's bring out mindless false-equivalency every time Malkin does something psychotic.

Remember when Malkin smeared children and spied on a family in need during the SCHIP debate? You perhaps don't but I do!

151 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:40:53pm

re: #148 captdiggs

Charles, you don't think that schools practice a little CYA after a mistake that could cost a lawsuit?
Like I said, both sides could have motivation to lie.

Yep, it's gotta be a conspiracy. After all, the schools are ruled by Satan.

152 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:41:04pm

re: #139 Charles

Just received from 'princerudolph@hushmail.com', with the title 'hey idiot':

Feel the love!

Well at least he answered the Bill O'Reilly question.

153 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:41:40pm

re: #151 Charles

And gays. Don't forget teh gays.

154 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:41:45pm

Whenever Michelle Malkin's name comes up, it's hard for me to read on.

What does it say when an ideological "leader" of your party originally rose to prominence by publishing a book advocating concentration camps for American citizens? That isn't a selective interpretation or an obscure piece of work. It's on Amazon, for chrissake.

Why was The Crazy not outright rejected years ago, let alone now? Did she somehow slip under the radar due to the temporary insanity surrounding 9/11?

155 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:41:53pm

re: #140 JasonA

Windup, we usually see eye to eye but... a rhetorical lead-in to a gripe about rhetoric?

Fair enough. I'm a little fired up, admittedly. ;-)

I stand by my assertion that Malkin and other GOP rhetoric is going to end up with someone being hurt or killed.

156 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:42:07pm

re: #153 theheat

And gays. Don't forget teh gays.

And Apeists!

/

157 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:42:08pm

re: #148 captdiggs

Your rationalizing could twist pretzels.

158 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:42:09pm

re: #106 captdiggs

I would say that it seems a little more important for a president to be sure of the facts before making public comments, than a blogger.
But that's just my opinion.

Apparently not everyone shares your opinion.

159 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:42:28pm

re: #152 Stanley Sea

Well at least he answered the Bill O'Reilly question.

Yes, that was kind of a no-brainer. "Persecuted Christian" stories are O'Reilly's bread and butter.

160 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:42:44pm

re: #148 captdiggs

What lawsuit? The teacher saw something seriously problematic and took action. The school will defend that decision, because they want teachers to speak up when they see a problem, not be intimidated by litigious parents.

161 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:42:48pm

re: #128 EmmmieG

My child once drew me holding a really big knife. The teacher circled it with a "no", then, crossed those out when she realized I was also standing in front of a table with a cake on it.

My autistic granddaughter recently drew a picture of a dragon in running shoes and shorts, carrying a giant cookie. She told her mother "That's you".
Mother asked "What part is me?"
Answer: "Some days you're the dragon, some days you're the cookie."

We think this is a good thing.

162 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:43:13pm

re: #156 Gus 802

Ungodly gays, that came from monkeys that swung from the trees, that can't care or feel.

163 djughurknot  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:43:41pm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

Give it to me straight- is the stalker blog worth visiting even for yuks? Or is it a waste of time and bandwidth? My impression is that I might as well watch kitty vids on YouTube instead and get more for my entertainment byte.

164 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:43:57pm

re: #161 Decatur Deb

My autistic granddaughter recently drew a picture of a dragon in running shoes and shorts, carrying a giant cookie. She told her mother "That's you".
Mother asked "What part is me?"
Answer: "Some days you're the dragon, some days you're the cookie."

We think this is a good thing.

+1 for your granddaughter. I have a son with autism.

165 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:44:14pm

re: #150 WindUpBird

Yeah, let's compare criticizing a cop to a full-on witchhunt. Let's do that. Let's bring out mindless false-equivalency every time Malkin does something psychotic.

Remember when Malkin smeared children and spied on a family in need during the SCHIP debate? You perhaps don't but I do!

And criticism from the Commander in Chief carries alot more weight than from Malkin. Sorry to rain on your alls parade. Guess expectations of our leader have dipped to a new low

166 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:45:42pm

Look -- if the kid was actually suspended from school, there would be a record of this. And he absolutely DID put his own name on the cross in his drawing.

Trying to argue that the school principal is "lying" is just beyond ludicrous.

The fact is that the only reason why teachers recommend psychological counseling for situations like this is to PREVENT lawsuits. Saying they're afraid of a lawsuit because they followed their own guidelines is absurd.

167 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:45:48pm

re: #163 djughurknot

Give it to me straight- is the stalker blog worth visiting even for yuks? Or is it a waste of time and bandwidth? My impression is that I might as well watch kitty vids on YouTube instead and get more for my entertainment byte.

A waste, unless SpaceJesus goes on another Epic Quest of Trolldom. :)
/the good trolling!

168 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:46:12pm

re: #163 djughurknot

Give it to me straight- is the stalker blog worth visiting even for yuks? Or is it a waste of time and bandwidth? My impression is that I might as well watch kitty vids on YouTube instead and get more for my entertainment byte.

I thought that at first. "Hey, come out to the coast, we'll have a good time."

I left feeling sad and incredulous at what I had seen.

169 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:46:38pm

re: #144 Summer

They call themselves Christians, and they use that word a lot.

I do not think it means what they think it means.

Are there rocks ahead? If there are, we'll all be dead...

170 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:46:53pm

re: #148 captdiggs

Charles, you don't think that schools practice a little CYA after a mistake that could cost a lawsuit?
Like I said, both sides could have motivation to lie.

And here we have even MORE false equivalency. Malkin is not credible! Links have been posted from here too doomsday about all the nutty things she has said. Malkin has been ginning up stuff like this for years.

On one hand, we have a school principal. On the other had we have a confirmed raconteur who will do almost anything to stir up fury and animosity for her far right wing adherents.

171 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:47:05pm

re: #144 Summer

They call themselves Christians, and they use that word a lot.

I do not think it means what they think it means.

Where did this person call themselves a christian?

172 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:47:38pm

re: #151 Charles

Yep, it's gotta be a conspiracy. After all, the schools are ruled by Satan.

All I am doing is pointing out that their are two different stories.
You already have formed your opinion that the parents must be lying. That's your prerogative.
My view is that their are 2 stories and one or the other will eventually be proven untrue.

173 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:47:41pm

re: #154 Jaerik

Whenever Michelle Malkin's name comes up, it's hard for me to read on.

What does it say when an ideological "leader" of your party originally rose to prominence by publishing a book advocating concentration camps for American citizens? That isn't a selective interpretation or an obscure piece of work. It's on Amazon, for chrissake.

Why was The Crazy not outright rejected years ago, let alone now? Did she somehow slip under the radar due to the temporary insanity surrounding 9/11?

I'm really not sure. I think Malkin has been kept around in part for her looks. And as crazy as she is, she doesn't (usually) sound as crazy or hateful on TV as she does on her blog(s).

I have no other explanation for why Our Lady of the Internment Camps was ever given any credence, except that media conglomerates thought a female 'conservative' who isn't white and is anti-immigration would mean $$. I assume they thought she'd be a moneymaker just as Coulter has been. Being hateful and wrong all the time, about everything has never stopped Coulter's media appearances either.

174 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:47:45pm

re: #163 djughurknot

Give it to me straight- is the stalker blog worth visiting even for yuks? Or is it a waste of time and bandwidth? My impression is that I might as well watch kitty vids on YouTube instead and get more for my entertainment byte.

The reason I visit that place is to keep an eye on them. Sometimes they plot flounces, hate mail, or nasty pranks over there. It's a "know your enemy" thing. Most of the stuff there is very nasty, and I'm sometimes the target of it. Its only worth visiting to familiarize yourself with enemy tactics.

175 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:49:00pm

re: #171 Walter L. Newton

Where did this person call themselves a christian?

They didn't. However, I'm willing to make the bet that they do.

It's called: "Playing the odds". =)

176 Lidane  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:49:45pm

re: #138 captdiggs

So far, the only fact I see concerning this story is that there are two different stories being told revolving around a drawing.
Both sides could have a reason for being untruthful.

Thing is, only one side is demanding that the teacher be hunted down and exposed as a tool of Satan, or whatever Malkin's minions are braying about. That's the main issue at hand here.

Is the picture disturbing? Sure, especially if the kid thinks it's him on that cross. Was the teacher right to be concerned? I would think so. Is any of this worth the inevitable stalking and harassment that Malkin is known for? No. Absolutely not, especially if that kid really is having problems at home. If he IS having problems at home, having the wingnuts go after the teacher won't solve a damned thing.

Thing is, not knowing all the facts has never stopped Malkin before, just like when she stalked that 12 year old and his family over SCHIP. Why would knowing the facts now get in her way?

177 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:49:59pm

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

Why plot flounces, is what I can't get. They're immediately reported, and I've only ever seen one, ONE! in the wild, a split second before it was deleted.

it'd be like spending a bunch of energy "plotting" to shoot a spitball.

178 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:50:05pm

re: #148 captdiggs

Charles, you don't think that schools practice a little CYA after a mistake that could cost a lawsuit?
Like I said, both sides could have motivation to lie.

dude, even the posters on her site figured out that the story turned around today. and you can't cover up a suspension.

179 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:50:51pm

re: #173 iceweasel

I'm really not sure. I think Malkin has been kept around in part for her looks. And as crazy as she is, she doesn't (usually) sound as crazy or hateful on TV as she does on her blog(s).

She's now locked in with Dobson's people, right?

180 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:50:51pm

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

The reason I visit that place is to keep an eye on them. Sometimes they plot flounces, hate mail, or nasty pranks over there. It's a "know your enemy" thing. Most of the stuff there is very nasty, and I'm sometimes the target of it. Its only worth visiting to familiarize yourself with enemy tactics.

that's some serious blogging there...enemy tactics and all

181 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:51:03pm

re: #177 WindUpBird

Why plot flounces, is what I can't get. They're immediately reported, and I've only ever seen one, ONE! in the wild, a split second before it was deleted.

it'd be like spending a bunch of energy "plotting" to shoot a spitball.

Because they're idiots with nothing better to do. =)

182 djughurknot  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:51:10pm

re: #167 Varek Raith
re: #168 JasonA
re: #174 Dark_Falcon
That bad, huh? You'd think people would join a book club in their spare time or something.

Well, off for a walk. Gotta keep away the S.A.D. Hooray for snow.

183 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:51:25pm

re: #154 Jaerik

Whenever Michelle Malkin's name comes up, it's hard for me to read on.

What does it say when an ideological "leader" of your party originally rose to prominence by publishing a book advocating concentration camps for American citizens? That isn't a selective interpretation or an obscure piece of work. It's on Amazon, for chrissake.

Why was The Crazy not outright rejected years ago, let alone now? Did she somehow slip under the radar due to the temporary insanity surrounding 9/11?

Whoah, cowboy. What do you mean by that?

184 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:51:31pm

re: #175 Summer

They didn't. However, I'm willing to make the bet that they do.

It's called: "Playing the odds". =)

So if you're willing to go ahead without facts, what do you think of Malkin doing the same? If she calls it playing the odds is it okay?

185 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:51:35pm

re: #173 iceweasel

I'm really not sure. I think Malkin has been kept around in part for her looks. And as crazy as she is, she doesn't (usually) sound as crazy or hateful on TV as she does on her blog(s).

I have no other explanation for why Our Lady of the Internment Camps was ever given any credence, except that media conglomerates thought a female 'conservative' who isn't white and is anti-immigration would mean $$. I assume they thought she'd be a moneymaker just as Coulter has been. Being hateful and wrong all the time, about everything has never stopped Coulter's media appearances either.

I had forgotten what that book was all about. Thought it was about the Japanese interment camps but remembered now that she was arguing for internment camps for Muslims and/or Middle Easterners in the wake of 9/11. I can understand what happened in the 1940s but to propose such an idea in the 21st century is absurd.

186 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:51:51pm

re: #179 WindUpBird

She's now locked in with Dobson's people, right?

Right.

Dobson, Malkin, and the Merging of the Right Wing Movement.

187 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:52:27pm

re: #181 Summer

Because they're idiots with nothing better to do. =)

Sometimes the simplest answer is true :D

188 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:52:29pm

re: #177 WindUpBird

Why plot flounces, is what I can't get. They're immediately reported, and I've only ever seen one, ONE! in the wild, a split second before it was deleted.

it'd be like spending a bunch of energy "plotting" to shoot a spitball.

I can't explain it either, but they sometimes do just that. They also recently devoted an entire thread to praising a 3-post flounce done in the early AM. "Get a life!" doesn't even begin to cover it.

189 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:52:39pm

re: #182 djughurknot

If you find yourself moseying on over there, take a look at their tag cloud. Their most popular topic after "News" and "Politics?"

Charles.

Yeah, stalker's an apt description.

190 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:52:49pm

re: #184 soxfan4life

So if you're willing to go ahead without facts, what do you think of Malkin doing the same? If she calls it playing the odds is it okay?

No, because my bet is based on previous factual events and associations. Hers are based entirely on made up stuff. =)

191 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:53:13pm

re: #177 WindUpBird

Why plot flounces, is what I can't get. They're immediately reported, and I've only ever seen one, ONE! in the wild, a split second before it was deleted.

it'd be like spending a bunch of energy "plotting" to shoot a spitball.

what do you expect to find?....what's the infatuation with it, what's the turn on?

192 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:53:42pm

re: #184 soxfan4life

So if you're willing to go ahead without facts, what do you think of Malkin doing the same? If she calls it playing the odds is it okay?

If someone says "Merry Christmas" I reserve the right to assume they're Christian.

193 djughurknot  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:54:09pm

re: #189 JasonA

How lovely. And endearing.

194 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:54:11pm

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

The reason I visit that place is to keep an eye on them. Sometimes they plot flounces, hate mail, or nasty pranks over there. It's a "know your enemy" thing. Most of the stuff there is very nasty, and I'm sometimes the target of it. Its only worth visiting to familiarize yourself with enemy tactics.

"Keep an eye on them?" I still don't understand the fascination with stalker blogs, these people that leave here, go somewhere, say this or say that. Get over it, they are virtual electronic entities who, in the real scheme of thing, in the real world, they don't matter one whit.

If you spend 2 minutes even watching their antics somewhere else then guess what, they won.

This is all fun here, it's interesting to converse with people of different opinions, but at the end of the day, it's over.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't give a shit. And no Falcon, I'm not yelling at anyone, you or anyone, I just wonder, every time this comes up, I wonder, that's all.

195 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:54:18pm

We're not talking about journalism here. Just a reminder of the rant:

A second-grader in Taunton, MA was kicked out of school, suspended, and ordered to undergo a mental evaluation for…

…drawing a picture of Jesus Christ on the cross.

One picture of Jesus gets a kid booted from the classroom.

But Fort Hood killer Nidal Hasan’s years of jihadist threats got him…a promotion and access to open season on our troops.

And GLSEN founder Kevin Jennings’ not-safe-for-school radical activism got him…a job as Safe Schools czar.

Lunacy.

Yep, that's lunacy alright.

196 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:54:21pm

re: #192 JasonA

If someone says "Merry Christmas" I reserve the right to assume they're Christian.

That, too. =)

197 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:54:56pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

I can't explain it either, but they sometimes do just that. They also recently devoted an entire thread to praising a 3-post flounce done in the early AM. "Get a life!" doesn't even begin to cover it.

"Whoo, we got a flounce up in the wee early morning when everyone was still asleep! Alert the media!" I stay up mighty late (sometimes to sunrise if I'm in an art-making groove) maybe I should start keeping an eye out, hah.

198 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:54:57pm

re: #183 The Sanity Inspector

Whoah, cowboy. What do you mean by that?

Nothing politically charged either way. A lot of people on all sides weren't thinking too clearly or rationally in the immediate aftermath. Including myself.

199 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:55:31pm

re: #179 WindUpBird

She's now locked in with Dobson's people, right?

Yep. Dobson is bad news, and she's also buddies with the founder of VDARE if i recall correctly.

200 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:55:35pm

You should have read the snide comments we wrote in our catechisms in Catholic grammar school.

Religion took a beating.

Not to mention ear wax.

201 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:55:40pm

re: #184 soxfan4life

So if you're willing to go ahead without facts, what do you think of Malkin doing the same? If she calls it playing the odds is it okay?

That was my point exactly, but I guess I didn't make myself clear. Anyone know who a mirror works? It's amazing that anyone can go down this thread doing the same thing that MM does, and don't see the irony of it all.

LOL.

202 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:55:42pm

re: #163 djughurknot

Give it to me straight- is the stalker blog worth visiting even for yuks? Or is it a waste of time and bandwidth? My impression is that I might as well watch kitty vids on YouTube instead and get more for my entertainment byte.

Only time I ever bother with them is to see if they've taken any notice of me personally. And that can be done via Google's cache, w/o giving them any hits.

I'm probably the last person to be on a high horse about spouting snarky, overblown generalizations. I've done plenty of it in my time on the 'net. But hateful fixations on a person, to the point of building a blog targeting them? Not my scene, as we used to say.

203 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:56:21pm

re: #192 JasonA

If someone says "Merry Christmas" I reserve the right to assume they're Christian.

Or very polite.

204 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:57:13pm

re: #203 Decatur Deb

Or very polite.

No, no, no... they have to be one of those crazy christians. No one would say Merry Christmas unless they were christian...

205 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:57:38pm

re: #194 Walter L. Newton

yeah, but hasn't the stalkeriness occasionally bled from just annoying internet behavior into real threats? I mean, no reason to obsess over it, but it becomes something to pay attention to once people are talking about physical harm. I don't know much about the history of the stalker blog, though.

206 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:57:54pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

That was my point exactly, but I guess I didn't make myself clear. Anyone know who a mirror works? It's amazing that anyone can go down this thread doing the same thing that MM does, and don't see the irony of it all.

LOL.

I noticed

207 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:57:57pm

re: #194 Walter L. Newton

"Keep an eye on them?" I still don't understand the fascination with stalker blogs, these people that leave here, go somewhere, say this or say that. Get over it, they are virtual electronic entities who, in the real scheme of thing, in the real world, they don't matter one whit.

If you spend 2 minutes even watching their antics somewhere else then guess what, they won.

This is all fun here, it's interesting to converse with people of different opinions, but at the end of the day, it's over.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't give a shit. And no Falcon, I'm not yelling at anyone, you or anyone, I just wonder, every time this comes up, I wonder, that's all.


I'm with you Walter. I don't have time to keep up with this site and the other sites that interest me, much less one like that. They flounced, let them go!!!

208 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:58:15pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

That was my point exactly, but I guess I didn't make myself clear. Anyone know who a mirror works? It's amazing that anyone can go down this thread doing the same thing that MM does, and don't see the irony of it all.

LOL.

It's amazing that anyone reading this thread thinks that anyone here is 'doing the same thing MM does'-- unless we're including breathing, typing, and having a heartbeat.

209 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:58:26pm

re: #192 JasonA

If someone says "Merry Christmas" I reserve the right to assume they're Christian.

I'm an atheist, buy I'll still say 'Merry Christmas' if one says it to me first...

210 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:58:28pm

Sorry I have to go, but I've got to head home. BBL

211 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:59:04pm

re: #209 Varek Raith

I'm an atheist, buy I'll still say 'Merry Christmas' if one says it to me first...

But I'm betting you wouldn't be righteously indignant about a "War on Christmas" story that wasn't even accurate. =)

212 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:59:14pm

re: #176 Lidane

Thing is, only one side is demanding that the teacher be hunted down and exposed as a tool of Satan, or whatever Malkin's minions are braying about. That's the main issue at hand here.

Sorry, I don't hold her responsible for comments on her blog any more than I hold Obama responsible for the anti-semitic tripe that inhabited his campaign website.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

213 That's Grand Lord On High Monckton to you  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:59:16pm

Well here we have yet another example of a person acting out against the New World Order types and getting crushed for it.

It reminds me of the time I went to the local office of the Ministry of Development, and Lands and Surveys to get a permit to build several crucifixes on my estate.

The people at the office were pleasant and helpful until we got into a row about my failing to fill in "purpose" on the form.

The young woman who had been helping me had penciled in "religious observance" in the purpose space and I told her - "that won't do." She then asked the purpose and I told her I'd rather not say. Her supervisor then came over and acted as though I were stupid - "If you wish it to be a private religious purpose, we simply write 'Religious observance' in the purpose space" he said in a voice one would might use in describing how to properly polish silver to a new servant.

I told them it was private but not entirely religious. So they badgered me further and I had had quite enough when I informed them of 2 things -

1 - That they are Gestapo

2 - That I intended to crucify the three Greek immigrants who I had caught squatting on my land.

Well that certainly put the Nazi's into high gear as they raided my property and confiscated the said immigrants and threatened me with arrest.

Nothing good will come from the New World Order.

214 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:59:34pm

re: #209 Varek Raith

I'm an atheist, buy I'll still say 'Merry Christmas' if one says it to me first...

Me too, but I don't think I've ever said, "Merry Christmas jackass."

215 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 4:59:39pm

re: #194 Walter L. Newton

"Keep an eye on them?" I still don't understand the fascination with stalker blogs, these people that leave here, go somewhere, say this or say that. Get over it, they are virtual electronic entities who, in the real scheme of thing, in the real world, they don't matter one whit.

If you spend 2 minutes even watching their antics somewhere else then guess what, they won.

This is all fun here, it's interesting to converse with people of different opinions, but at the end of the day, it's over.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't give a shit. And no Falcon, I'm not yelling at anyone, you or anyone, I just wonder, every time this comes up, I wonder, that's all.

Walter,

You'd feel differently if it was you who were receiving the death threats, the DOS attacks, and etc. I don't know what Charles does with the rest of his day, but he does derive some revenue from LGF. The stalker site is attempting material harm to him.

216 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:00:04pm

re: #205 WindUpBird

yeah, but hasn't the stalkeriness occasionally bled from just annoying internet behavior into real threats? I mean, no reason to obsess over it, but it becomes something to pay attention to once people are talking about physical harm. I don't know much about the history of the stalker blog, though.

I've heard of threats and stuff, but I don't know if anything actually happened, physically happened.

My point simply being that I have seen some people obsess over stalker blogs to the point that they sound as wacked out as the stalkers. It's a waste of time.

217 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:00:38pm

re: #214 Charles

Me too, but I don't think I've ever said, "Merry Christmas jackass."

hahaha!

218 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:01:31pm

re: #211 Summer

But I'm betting you wouldn't be righteously indignant about a "War on Christmas" story that wasn't even accurate. =)

Uh, no. Besides, I started hearing Christmas music shortly after freaking Halloween... WTH!? *Lobs verbal grenades*:/
:)

219 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:01:50pm

re: #199 iceweasel

Yep. Dobson is bad news, and she's also buddies with the founder of VDARE if i recall correctly.

uhhghghgh. In other creepy megachurch news: Rod Parsley megachurch threatened due to lack of funds, because of a settlement paid out for abusing a child

And h calls the lawsuit a "demonically inspired financial attack". So they spank a kid to the point where they're drawing welts, then they basically call the kid a demon when his parents sue. YEAH!

220 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:02:04pm

re: #198 Jaerik

Nothing politically charged either way. A lot of people on all sides weren't thinking too clearly or rationally in the immediate aftermath. Including myself.

I remember a terrible clarity of conviction and purpose coalescing in my mind, and sensing the same thing happening with others.

221 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:02:27pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

Uh, no. Besides, I started hearing Christmas music shortly after freaking Halloween... WTH!? *Lobs verbal grenades*:/
:)

My point exactly. =)

222 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:02:37pm

re: #216 Walter L. Newton

I've heard of threats and stuff, but I don't know if anything actually happened, physically happened.

My point simply being that I have seen some people obsess over stalker blogs to the point that they sound as wacked out as the stalkers. It's a waste of time.

Fair enough!

223 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:03:03pm

Here's another bogus story making the rounds.....

Glenn Beck Interviews The Weekly Standard's Michael Goldfarb About Threat To Close Base


Of course it's not true.....
White House Hits Back Against Right-Wing Rumor-Mongering

The White House has again denied the dubious claim by Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity that the Obama Administration threatened Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) with closing Nebraska's Offutt Air Force Base if he does not support health care reform.

224 soxfan4life  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:03:15pm

re: #208 iceweasel

It's amazing that anyone reading this thread thinks that anyone here is 'doing the same thing MM does'-- unless we're including breathing, typing, and having a heartbeat.

re: #184 soxfan4life

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

That was my point exactly, but I guess I didn't make myself clear. Anyone know who a mirror works? It's amazing that anyone can go down this thread doing the same thing that MM does, and don't see the irony of it all.

LOL.

I showed the poster where she was going ahead without facts, and Walter finished connecting the dots to point out the HYPOCRISY. Apparently we hold others to standards higher than we do ourselves.

225 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:04:42pm

Malkin has cited Peter Brimelow, founder of white nationalist site VDARE, with great approval at her website several times, even calling him "the Capo di Tutti Capi himself, Peter Brimelow."

226 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:04:44pm

re: #223 Killgore Trout

Here's another bogus story making the rounds...

Glenn Beck Interviews The Weekly Standard's Michael Goldfarb About Threat To Close Base



Of course it's not true...
White House Hits Back Against Right-Wing Rumor-Mongering

Wow. What was that with the baseball bat and him spelling out "beating."

227 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:05:13pm

re: #215 The Sanity Inspector

Walter,

You'd feel differently if it was you who were receiving the death threats, the DOS attacks, and etc. I don't know what Charles does with the rest of his day, but he does derive some revenue from LGF. The stalker site is attempting material harm to him.

Charles may have a real good reason to keep informed, but I'm talking about the average joe who visits stalker sites because they get some real thrill listening to the bullshit and then running back and telling their friends. It's childish. This is the fucking internet, electronic fun, not a physical battlefield.

It's just my opinion, but I don't see any need for the average user to even care about a stalker blog.

228 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:06:47pm

re: #224 soxfan4life

I showed the poster where she was going ahead without facts, and Walter finished connecting the dots to point out the HYPOCRISY. Apparently we hold others to standards higher than we do ourselves.

Thanks. I didn't even bother to answer a question that had such an obvious answer.

229 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:06:50pm

re: #209 Varek Raith

I'm an atheist, buy I'll still say 'Merry Christmas' if one says it to me first...

I always considered Christmas to be mostly a secular holiday. If Christians want to celebrate it in very religious fashion, hey great! But winter celebrations are about as old as civilization. I know atheists who are ALL ABOUT CHRISTMAS. They go nuts with decorations, caroling, the works. They have a garage full of rad Christmas kitsch and go hog wild with presents. Christmas is my favorite holiday (along with halloween) and I'm not Christian.

230 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:07:08pm

re: #226 Gus 802

It's just too much crazy to keep track of. Each bogus outrage is more outrageous than the next. What I find interesting is you can tell that Beck is aware that the story's not true but he fits it in with a larger pattern that he sees from the Obama White House.

231 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:08:55pm

re: #229 WindUpBird

I always considered Christmas to be mostly a secular holiday. If Christians want to celebrate it in very religious fashion, hey great! But winter celebrations are about as old as civilization. I know atheists who are ALL ABOUT CHRISTMAS. They go nuts with decorations, caroling, the works. They have a garage full of rad Christmas kitsch and go hog wild with presents. Christmas is my favorite holiday (along with halloween) and I'm not Christian.

Truth be told, I don't do any decorating of any sort. In fact, I can't stand it (or most holidays for that matter).
/aren't I all fire and brimstone on the parade? /:)

232 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:08:55pm

re: #227 Walter L. Newton

Charles may have a real good reason to keep informed, but I'm talking about the average joe who visits stalker sites because they get some real thrill listening to the bullshit and then running back and telling their friends. It's childish. This is the fucking internet, electronic fun, not a physical battlefield.

It's just my opinion, but I don't see any need for the average user to even care about a stalker blog.

Fair enough--for the average user.

233 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:08:58pm

re: #220 The Sanity Inspector

I remember a terrible clarity of conviction and purpose coalescing in my mind, and sensing the same thing happening with others.

Definitely. And I also recall an unprecedented amount of later scaling-back on those convictions once people returned to sanity and realized some of them were a bit overblown.

I was suggesting that such "clarity of conviction" could have caused a lack of peripheral vision, that would allow someone advocating concentration camps for American citizens to slip into the mainstream without being called on it.

234 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:10:00pm

re: #183 The Sanity Inspector

Whoah, cowboy. What do you mean by that?

You could say there was a bit of temporary insanity around 9/11.

Like this! [Link: www.beliefnet.com...]

Or maybe it's permanent insanity in the case of Falwell and Robertson. But this was revolting even for them.

235 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:10:49pm

re: #231 Varek Raith

Truth be told, I don't do any decorating of any sort. In fact, I can't stand it (or most holidays for that matter).
/aren't I all fire and brimstone on the parade? /:)

hah, I'm the guy that has the christmas lights up year-round because I like sparkly things in my workspace. *_*

236 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:10:50pm

re: #227 Walter L. Newton

Charles may have a real good reason to keep informed, but I'm talking about the average joe who visits stalker sites because they get some real thrill listening to the bullshit and then running back and telling their friends. It's childish. This is the fucking internet, electronic fun, not a physical battlefield.

It's just my opinion, but I don't see any need for the average user to even care about a stalker blog.

I've posted before that I appreciate it when people let me know about especially hateful and/or threatening things that are posted at stalker blogs. So I'd appreciate if you would also note that this isn't your blog, and I don't agree with what you posted.

237 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:10:53pm

re: #214 Charles

Me too, but I don't think I've ever said, "Merry Christmas jackass."

Brings up the best Colbert moment ever: (Language warning.)
[Link: dumpalink.com...]

238 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:12:31pm

re: #229 WindUpBird

I'm another atheist that lives for Halloween, watches all the feelgood Christmas programs, listens to Christmas music, has seen the Nutcracker performed a zillion times, loves the decorations, says Merry Christmas to people who say merry Christmas... I don't factor in the religious part, but I still enjoy the holiday season as much or more than a lot of people.

239 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:12:35pm

re: #235 WindUpBird

hah, I'm the guy that has the christmas lights up year-round because I like sparkly things in my workspace. *_*

There's a house in my neighborhood that has a Santa with all of his reindeer on the roof all year round...
lol.

240 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:12:48pm

re: #231 Varek Raith

Truth be told, I don't do any decorating of any sort. In fact, I can't stand it (or most holidays for that matter).
/aren't I all fire and brimstone on the parade? /:)

No, you are reasonable. We have two christian atheists here and two jewish atheists in the family, we have a hanukkah menorah, some hanukkah candles, a christmas tree and nightly dollar store hanukkah gifts.

241 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:13:12pm

re: #236 Charles

I've posted before that I appreciate it when people let me know about especially hateful and/or threatening things that are posted at stalker blogs. So I'd appreciate if you would also note that this isn't your blog, and I don't agree with what you posted.

Noted.

242 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:13:25pm

re: #230 Killgore Trout

It's just too much crazy to keep track of. Each bogus outrage is more outrageous than the next. What I find interesting is you can tell that Beck is aware that the story's not true but he fits it in with a larger pattern that he sees from the Obama White House.

I now assume that every time a wingnut blog posts a story about an outrage, it's false.

They've driven their credibility down into the sewer, with one phony story after another that they never correct.

243 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:14:14pm

re: #227 Walter L. Newton

Charles may have a real good reason to keep informed, but I'm talking about the average joe who visits stalker sites because they get some real thrill listening to the bullshit and then running back and telling their friends. It's childish. This is the fucking internet, electronic fun, not a physical battlefield.

It's not all just fun, some of us make a living off these tubes! But now I want THIS IS THE FUCKING INTERNET on a t-shirt. just a plain black t-shirt, big white block letters. Yes.

But I've never really visited the stalkers. Clicked once, found a bunch of boring baked-from-a-mold anti-Obama stuff, never went back. There are far more interesting and zany wackos on the internet to check out.

244 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:14:48pm

re: #233 Jaerik

Definitely. And I also recall an unprecedented amount of later scaling-back on those convictions once people returned to sanity and realized some of them were a bit overblown.

I was suggesting that such "clarity of conviction" could have caused a lack of peripheral vision, that would allow someone advocating concentration camps for American citizens to slip into the mainstream without being called on it.

Okay, I copy.

245 Girth  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:15:12pm

Heads up for any other classic movie and/or Bogie fans, TCM is running Humphrey Bogart movies all night.

Maltese Falcon, Casablanca, Treasure of the Sierra Madre, The African Queen.

246 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:16:00pm

re: #243 WindUpBird

It's not all just fun, some of us make a living off these tubes! But now I want THIS IS THE FUCKING INTERNET on a t-shirt. just a plain black t-shirt, big white block letters. Yes.

But I've never really visited the stalkers. Clicked once, found a bunch of boring baked-from-a-mold anti-Obama stuff, never went back. There are far more interesting and zany wackos on the internet to check out.

Charles has a different opinion about my comment, and in fairness, he does have a point.

re: #236 Charles

I've posted before that I appreciate it when people let me know about especially hateful and/or threatening things that are posted at stalker blogs. So I'd appreciate if you would also note that this isn't your blog, and I don't agree with what you posted.

247 SixDegrees  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:16:13pm

Public hounding of teachers is a specialty of Malkin's. Her minions did the same thing last year over a teacher that had crossed their line of acceptable behavior in some way, and launched a barrage of hate emails at the school where she worked, both to her and anyone else on the staff or school district that had a contact address.

Unfortunately, it turned out they had the wrong school.

Not that it mattered. The teacher in question had worked there several years previously, long before she committed her supposed offense, but the school "should have known better" than to have hired her in the first place.

Or something.

Teachers make great targets. They rarely have the wherewithal to defend themselves, and school board members are in a similar situation, as well as being sensitive to public criticism where children are concerned. It's easy to get parents riled up over their children being "abused" in some way, even if the story concerns a district across the country.

She's found a vulnerable, easy target, and exploits it often.

Don't expect any retractions. She'll stop talking about it herself, but will happily let her shit-flinging monkeys continue to flog themselves into a frenzy of hatred for as long as it takes to exhaust themselves.

248 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:17:07pm

re: #242 Charles

I keep thinking this craziness has to achieve critical mass. It's obvious that right wing blogs and Fox are not reporting anything even close to reality. It's too easy to check this out. People are going to eventually figure out they're being duped.

249 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:17:13pm

re: #239 Varek Raith

There's a house in my neighborhood that has a Santa with all of his reindeer on the roof all year round...
lol.

One day I want to be that guy! But I want all the decorations, for every holiday, all at once. Santa behind an American flag, holding a jack-o-lantern, shaking hands with George Washington, riding atop a giant easter bunny.

Oh, and we need like an inflatable Joe Namath to represent the Super Bowl.

250 Girth  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:18:10pm

re: #248 Killgore Trout

I keep thinking this craziness has to achieve critical mass. It's obvious that right wing blogs and Fox are not reporting anything even close to reality. It's too easy to check this out. People are going to eventually figure out they're being duped.

I do hope you're right, but I for one won't be holding my breath.

251 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:18:15pm

So I took a quick drive to the supermarket, turned on the radio, and there's my old pal Roger Simon from Pajamas Media on the John and Ken show, spouting climate denial nonsense just like Monckton.

Which is more than a little odd, because when we started PJ Media, we talked often about the need to educate people about global warming issues, and environmental consciousness. We discussed having a regular feature or a section of the site that would deal with that, in fact.

He's done a complete 180.

252 acacia  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:18:54pm

I checked Malkin's site and although she hasn't noted the new developments, the story she links to does. The original story was as reported. I don't know if you can fault someone for passing along accurately a newspaper story. That story was the basis for a number of other stories and media reports. I agree that the responsible thing to do is to update it and point out the two different sides to the story. Who really knows what happened.

253 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:18:56pm

re: #251 Charles

So I took a quick drive to the supermarket, turned on the radio, and there's my old pal Roger Simon from Pajamas Media on the John and Ken show, spouting climate denial nonsense just like Monckton.

Which is more than a little odd, because when we started PJ Media, we talked often about the need to educate people about global warming issues, and environmental consciousness. We discussed having a regular feature or a section of the site that would deal with that, in fact.

He's done a complete 180.

Gone over to the dark side, he has.

254 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:19:04pm

re: #247 SixDegrees

Home schooling.

It is the only solution.

They can home school their kids and not get concerned when their kids start to draw suicide pron.

And then they can STFU about public schools.

Problem solved. Everyone happy.

255 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:19:11pm

re: #230 Killgore Trout

It's just too much crazy to keep track of. Each bogus outrage is more outrageous than the next. What I find interesting is you can tell that Beck is aware that the story's not true but he fits it in with a larger pattern that he sees from the Obama White House.

They'll focus on one sentence or even word from a speech made up of 100s of sentences. From that one sentence or word they create the false outrage or rationalize it to the point of supporting a continuing (paranoid) idea. They also will create conspiracies from this.

256 Kewalo  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:19:56pm

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

The reason I visit that place is to keep an eye on them. Sometimes they plot flounces, hate mail, or nasty pranks over there. It's a "know your enemy" thing. Most of the stuff there is very nasty, and I'm sometimes the target of it. Its only worth visiting to familiarize yourself with enemy tactics.

And since you come here and report what their doing, I sincerely appreciate it, thank you.

257 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:19:57pm

re: #242 Charles

I now assume that every time a wingnut blog posts a story about an outrage, it's false.

They've driven their credibility down into the sewer, with one phony story after another that they never correct.

Their disinterest with facts and eagerness to leap onto anything with a wingnutty aroma makes them prime targets for massive amounts of punking - but really, who needs to bother given how adept they are are making fools of themselves all on their own?

258 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:20:01pm

re: #254 karmic_inquisitor

Home schooling.

It is the only solution.

They can home school their kids and not get concerned when their kids start to draw suicide pron.

And then they can STFU about public schools.

Problem solved. Everyone happy.

Sure. And they can teach their kids that the Earth is really 6,000 years old, and Evolution is just a myth.

It's worked really well so far. =)

259 Girth  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:20:26pm

re: #254 karmic_inquisitor

Home schooling.

It is the only solution.

They can home school their kids and not get concerned when their kids start to draw suicide pron.

And then they can STFU about public schools.

Problem solved. Everyone happy.

And then we get a generation of kids who think that Noah rode a T-Rex to work.

260 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:20:31pm

re: #253 Summer

Gone over to the dark side, he has.

I think it has more to do with playing to the crowd.

More despicable, quite honestly.

261 Mr.Boots  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:20:39pm

re: #138 captdiggs

So far, the only fact I see concerning this story is that there are two different stories being told revolving around a drawing.
Both sides could have a reason for being untruthful.

There is nothing more fair and balanced than sophist moral equivalency./

262 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:20:43pm

re: #139 Charles

Just received from 'princerudolph@hushmail.com', with the title 'hey idiot':

Feel the love!

These are always more fun when translated into LOL:

Y HALO THAR TEH STORY WUZ ALREADY ON OREILLY. IF URE GOIN 2 LIE AN SMEAR, AT LEAST GIT UR SHIT TOGETHR.

BTW, U SHUD PUT UP SIGN ON UR SIET..."WILL BLOG 4 FUD" CAUSE DIS PLACE IZ STARTIN LOOK LIEK SHIT WIF ALL TEH ADZ AN HITS ON UR TIP JAR.

MERRY CEILINGCATMAS JACKAS.

263 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:20:52pm

re: #239 Varek Raith

There's a house in my neighborhood that has a Santa with all of his reindeer on the roof all year round...
lol.

It was normal in old Pittsburgh bars to leave the great clunky lights on the moose antlers all year, them plug 'em up for Advent.

264 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:20:57pm

Even the lefty blogs are pretty dull today as they're all wound up over healthcare. What seperates them from the right wing blogs is they're actually worked up about what's really in the bill (or what's not in the bill). The right is freaking out over stories they made up themselves and are simply not true.

265 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:21:22pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

Even the lefty blogs are pretty dull today as they're all wound up over healthcare. What seperates them from the right wing blogs is they're actually worked up about what's really in the bill (or what's not in the bill). The right is freaking out over stories they made up themselves and are simply not true.

Death panels!

266 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:21:23pm

re: #247 SixDegrees

She'll stop talking about it herself, but will happily let her shit-flinging monkeys continue to flog themselves into a frenzy of hatred for as long as it takes to exhaust themselves.

They didn't come from no damned monkeys.
//

267 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:22:09pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

Even the lefty blogs are pretty dull today as they're all wound up over healthcare. What seperates them from the right wing blogs is they're actually worked up about what's really in the bill (or what's not in the bill). The right is freaking out over stories they made up themselves and are simply not true.

I can't watch the liberal blogs right now, some of them want to torpedo the health care bill because it's not perfect. UHGHGH

268 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:22:43pm

re: #253 Summer

Gone over to the dark side, he has.

Woah. No smiley face...you ok over there?/

269 insanity police  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:22:55pm

Malkin on Hannity tonight according to Fox News promo.

270 SixDegrees  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:23:17pm

re: #192 JasonA

If someone says "Merry Christmas" I reserve the right to assume they're Christian.

Assume whatever you like, but the fact is that Christmas is both a religious and a secular holiday, especially in the United States, celebrated by a very large number of non-Christians simply as a time to get the family together. Use of the term "Merry Christmas" doesn't identify anyone as being of a particular religious persuasion; it's a perfectly innocuous salutation that rolls off the tongue as easily and with just as little thought as "See ya" or "Have a nice day."

Or, even closer to the point, wishing someone "Goodbye," which is hardly a mark of a Christian, either, although by your reasoning it would be.

271 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:24:23pm

re: #268 Aceofwhat?

Woah. No smiley face...you ok over there?/

That would be when Yoda sighs and frowns and looks down all sad. So, no smiley face. =(

I like smiley faces. Sue me. =)

272 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:25:11pm

re: #267 WindUpBird

A lot of them seem to be overreacting.

273 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:25:25pm

re: #262 webevintage

These are always more fun when translated into LOL:

Y HALO THAR TEH STORY WUZ ALREADY ON OREILLY. IF URE GOIN 2 LIE AN SMEAR, AT LEAST GIT UR SHIT TOGETHR.

BTW, U SHUD PUT UP SIGN ON UR SIET..."WILL BLOG 4 FUD" CAUSE DIS PLACE IZ STARTIN LOOK LIEK SHIT WIF ALL TEH ADZ AN HITS ON UR TIP JAR.

MERRY CEILINGCATMAS JACKAS.

lol! :)

274 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:25:31pm

In fact, I like to think that I'm one of the few smiley face typists who can convey lots of great and serious ideas in a completely unconventional format. =)

275 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:25:43pm

re: #242 Charles

I now assume that every time a wingnut blog posts a story about an outrage, it's false.

They've driven their credibility down into the sewer, with one phony story after another that they never correct.

Interesting to watch these stories surface in the morning (EST), some of the (my) morning LGF crew excepting them at face value, then watching it play out over the day. Both the cross and BRAC stories have been most illuminating in how the news cycle is used to prod and reaffirm peoples opinions.

276 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:26:24pm

re: #262 webevintage

These are always more fun when translated into LOL:

Y HALO THAR TEH STORY WUZ ALREADY ON OREILLY. IF URE GOIN 2 LIE AN SMEAR, AT LEAST GIT UR SHIT TOGETHR.

BTW, U SHUD PUT UP SIGN ON UR SIET..."WILL BLOG 4 FUD" CAUSE DIS PLACE IZ STARTIN LOOK LIEK SHIT WIF ALL TEH ADZ AN HITS ON UR TIP JAR.

MERRY CEILINGCATMAS JACKAS.

Ha!

I think that's how I'll post hate mail threads from now on.

277 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:26:29pm

re: #271 Summer

That would be when Yoda sighs and frowns and looks down all sad. So, no smiley face. =(

I like smiley faces. Sue me. =)

Yeah, i don't like it when Yoda is sad either.

and i like the smiley faces. they set off your f-bombs quite nicely ;)

278 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:26:34pm

re: #258 Summer

Sure. And they can teach their kids that the Earth is really 6,000 years old, and Evolution is just a myth.

It's worked really well so far. =)

Guess what, not all home schooling is done in order to instill certain religious teachings or bad science or other things like that.

I know a number of families and situations where the public school system did not have programs geared to help highly functional autistic children, who are very very smart, but have certain problems that make it nearly impossible to be schooled in a normal public school setting.

And so these parents home schooled these children, working along with suggested techniques from professionals on educating children of this type. In particular I am talking about children with Aspergers Syndrome.

Not all home schooled children fits the model you defined.

279 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:26:41pm

re: #248 Killgore Trout

I keep thinking this craziness has to achieve critical mass. It's obvious that right wing blogs and Fox are not reporting anything even close to reality. It's too easy to check this out. People are going to eventually figure out they're being duped.

it may well get even worse, the media can run totally amok and there is really no one to stop them, so nothing surprises me...outside of govt spending and national security issues I have little but a passing interest, and as for the pundits, I've never given them much cred, even the honest ones...I just despise the MSM an so the legit guys just go down with the rest...a twofer

280 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:27:27pm
281 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:27:52pm

re: #267 WindUpBird

I can't watch the liberal blogs right now, some of them want to torpedo the health care bill because it's not perfect. UHGHGH

Isn't Dean in that camp?

282 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:27:56pm

re: #251 Charles

Which is interesting, given how much speculation there is over whether John and Ken actually believe what they're saying, or are essentially a complete act.

283 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:28:14pm

re: #272 Killgore Trout

A lot of them seem to be overreacting.

YES YES YES A THOUSAND TIMES

It's infuriating. If they torpedo this bill, I don't know if there'll be another chance for reform.

284 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:28:31pm

re: #267 WindUpBird

I can't watch the liberal blogs right now, some of them want to torpedo the health care bill because it's not perfect. UHGHGH

Yep.
I'm sick of all the freaking out over on Kos and other progressive sites, these folks need to get a grip.

(Though I do wish Sander's bill had been allowed to just be voted on today. I would have liked to seen who would and would not have voted for it. For now all I can do is mutter about Coburn being an ass and how I'm sick of all the games being played right now.)

285 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:28:39pm

I turned on O'Reilly and he's about to do a segment on yet another nontroversy -- the Planned Parenthood "sting" video produced by anti-choice "activist" Lila Rose and her whacked out anti-abortion fanatics.

286 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:28:48pm

re: #278 Walter L. Newton

Guess what, not all home schooling is done in order to instill certain religious teachings or bad science or other things like that.

I know a number of families and situations where the public school system did not have programs geared to help highly functional autistic children, who are very very smart, but have certain problems that make it nearly impossible to be schooled in a normal public school setting.

And so these parents home schooled these children, working along with suggested techniques from professionals on educating children of this type. In particular I am talking about children with Aspergers Syndrome.

Not all home schooled children fits the model you defined.

I didn't say all home schooling was bad. =) But many do home school their kids to teach them that stuff.

287 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:29:18pm

re: #281 Aceofwhat?

Isn't Dean in that camp?

YES! And I like Dean. But he's completely flat-ass wrong on this. Momentum must be started. We were never going to get the whole health care enchilada now. What we get is the first step down the road to something that works.

288 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:29:33pm

re: #283 WindUpBird

YES YES YES A THOUSAND TIMES

It's infuriating. If they torpedo this bill, I don't know if there'll be another chance for reform.

why not?...life goes on and saner heads may yet prevail...it's not doomsday if this bill fails

289 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:29:49pm

re: #281 Aceofwhat?

Isn't Dean in that camp?

It's a really big camp...

290 SixDegrees  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:29:50pm

re: #254 karmic_inquisitor

Home schooling.

It is the only solution.

They can home school their kids and not get concerned when their kids start to draw suicide pron.

And then they can STFU about public schools.

Problem solved. Everyone happy.

Sort of works for me, but I have this thing when kids are involved. And kids subjected to that kind of environment are gonna have problems when the time comes for them to move into the adult world and their parents aren't hovering over their every action, deed and thought.

I have a similar problem with the [extraordinary string of the most foul expletives imaginable deleted] Christian Scientists and others who pray over their children instead of taking them to a doctor, deluded into thinking that you can somehow pray away appendicitis or diabetes. I have no problem whatsoever with courts seizing custody in such cases, despite being an otherwise fierce opponent of state intervention in private life. Kids are...kids. They aren't old enough to make such decisions for themselves, and when they're being harmed it grates.

Not as easy a call when it comes to home schooling, of course. But I'd take issue with shoving the kids away because of their parent's delusions. It's the parents who are fucked up - as adults, they should know better.

291 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:30:09pm

re: #281 Aceofwhat?

Isn't Dean in that camp?

Dean is arguing that an individual mandate to buy private insurance, plus giant taxpayer-funded subsidies to buy that private insurance, is basically nothing more than a straight-up transfer of public funds to the insurance companies.

If he's right, then I'd have to agree with him.

292 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:30:49pm

Oh, there's Tonya Reiman! I love her body language analysis segments!

Not.

I see that Fox's babe coaches have talked her into doing a complete makeover, including the patented Fox News bright red hooker lipstick.

293 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:30:51pm

re: #276 Charles

Ha!

I think that's how I'll post hate mail threads from now on.

Teh more crazy and stoopid an email is the better they are in LOL...the best ones have a lot of !!!!!11111!!!!! and CAPS LOCKS and "YOU NAZI"s.


Good Times.

294 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:31:11pm

re: #276 Charles

Ha!

I think that's how I'll post hate mail threads from now on.

Illustrations will be easy too.

295 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:31:26pm

re: #284 webevintage

Both Iglesias and Ezra Klein had reasoned pieces up today. The rest of the progressives need to know how to sit at the big person's table. Politics is ugly, it's incremental, it's never satisfying. If people want satisfaction, try hashish and chocolate and sex. All at once or individually.

296 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:31:35pm

re: #288 albusteve

why not?...life goes on and saner heads may yet prevail...it's not doomsday if this bill fails

Not doomsday, it just becomes increasingly unworkable to have affordable health care. Every year, health care becomes more unaffordable. Middle class families with children are being priced out. People are already paying as much as their mortgage for health care.

297 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:32:10pm

re: #293 webevintage

Teh more crazy and stoopid an email is the better they are in LOL...the best ones have a lot of !!!11111!!! and CAPS LOCKS and "YOU NAZI"s.

Good Times.

You forgot; eleventy-one!11!1eleventy-one!1

298 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:32:24pm

re: #287 WindUpBird

YES! And I like Dean. But he's completely flat-ass wrong on this. Momentum must be started. We were never going to get the whole health care enchilada now. What we get is the first step down the road to something that works.

I am 100 percent on the same page with Dean in regards to the health care bill.

299 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:32:27pm

re: #284 webevintage

Yep.
I'm sick of all the freaking out over on Kos and other progressive sites, these folks need to get a grip.

The KosKidz need to get a grip? Say it's not so...

//

300 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:32:43pm

re: #234 WindUpBird

You could say there was a bit of temporary insanity around 9/11.

Like this! [Link: www.beliefnet.com...]

Or maybe it's permanent insanity in the case of Falwell and Robertson. But this was revolting even for them.

There's plenty of self-damning quotes out there, sure. Michael Moore wondering why the hijackers hit a blue state, Coulter demanding that we invade their countries and forcibly convert them to Christianity, that creep from Rage Against The Machine who apologized for America's hatefulness on his webpage soon after the attacks happened. I took the attitude that, given the circumstances, everyone was entitled to a gut reaction, and gave them all a pass, once.

301 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:33:54pm

re: #296 WindUpBird

Not doomsday, it just becomes increasingly unworkable to have affordable health care. Every year, health care becomes more unaffordable. Middle class families with children are being priced out. People are already paying as much as their mortgage for health care.

non of which is an excuse to pass a bad bill...if you are resolved to mediocrity from the feds, you will get it in spades

302 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:33:57pm

re: #292 Charles

I see that Fox's babe coaches have talked her into doing a complete makeover, including the patented Fox News bright red hooker lipstick.

It's also creepy how many blonds they have.

I wonder what the statistical probability of that happening naturally is.

303 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:35:00pm

re: #292 Charles

Oh, there's Tonya Reiman! I love her body language analysis segments!

Not.

I see that Fox's babe coaches have talked her into doing a complete makeover, including the patented Fox News bright red hooker lipstick.

AHHHHH! You made me look! They are analyzing Nicole Kidman?? Geeze.

304 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:35:10pm

re: #298 Walter L. Newton

I am 100 percent on the same page with Dean in regards to the health care bill.

In the sense that he believes it's a transfer of public funds to insurance companies? (which is true) or in the sense that the bill should be torpedoed? (which I completely disagree with)

I'm on Nate Silver (and Charles') side on this.

305 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:35:30pm

re: #292 Charles

I think that MM is on Hannity afterwards, if you can stomach it.

306 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:35:31pm

re: #302 Jaerik

It's also creepy how many blonds they have.

I wonder what the statistical probability of that happening naturally is.

You saw Idiocracy, right? :D

307 claire  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:35:42pm

When the father said "we need a small lump sum payment for our pain and suffering", shouldn't that have been somebodies first clue this was a put-up deal?

My local paper this morning that the psychological eval was because the kid drew X's over the eyes, meaning dead. Teachers have all these criteria based on level of detail and stuff when children draw pictures of themselves and other people, for evaluating developmental stages, like it's a big deal if a child doesn't include nostrils at a certain age, etc. I'm guessing the fact that the kid drew himself as dead, gave the teacher the shivers and she was worried about how he views his self-worth. The "eval" was probably the Special Ed teacher testing him a little to see what's up. Maybe an overprotective reaction by the teachers but I doubt it had jack doo-doo to do with a bias against Jesus or Christmas. And the father is clearly an opportunistic money-grubber. Pain and suffering- I should be given a small lump sum for being forced to waste 10 precious minutes of my life on this drivel.

308 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:36:41pm

I saw the other day that Greta Van Susteren is a scientologist.

Anyone else at Fox getting "auditing" sessions?

309 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:36:52pm

re: #285 Charles

Good, because theheats, plural, send PP money. We get more bang for our buck sending it to groups they hate. It's like an after dinner mint. Send money, eateth the mint, sit back and watch the seething.

310 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:37:18pm

re: #304 WindUpBird

In the sense that he believes it's a transfer of public funds to insurance companies? (which is true) or in the sense that the bill should be torpedoed? (which I completely disagree with)

I'm on Nate Silver (and Charles') side on this.

The bill should be torpedoed?

311 worknhard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:37:53pm

re: #300 The Sanity Inspector

There's plenty of self-damning quotes out there, sure. Michael Moore wondering why the hijackers hit a blue state, Coulter demanding that we invade their countries and forcibly convert them to Christianity, that creep from Rage Against The Machine who apologized for America's hatefulness on his webpage soon after the attacks happened. I took the attitude that, given the circumstances, everyone was entitled to a gut reaction, and gave them all a pass, once.

Well said.

312 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:37:56pm

re: #280 Gus 802

OK, this is pretty funny.

The Christmas Sweater: A Typical Glenn Beck Broadcast

Excellent :)

313 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:38:27pm

re: #312 Jimmah

Excellent :)

mimimimimimi! Socialism! mimi!

/

314 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:38:39pm

re: #306 WindUpBird

You saw Idiocracy, right? :D

I did, but I tuned most of it out after the first 20 minutes for pretty much these reasons.

315 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:38:49pm

re: #301 albusteve

non of which is an excuse to pass a bad bill...if you are resolved to mediocrity from the feds, you will get it in spades

What you call mediocrity is my realist pragmatism. Complaining about the feds being mediocre might make us feel better, but it doesn't give anyone health care. But passing a mediocre bill that can be improved over time will give people health care. This bill is much much MUCH better than nothing. And were not going to get much better with so many representatives and senators in the pocket of the insurance industry.

Like it or not, this is the government we're stuck with. And I'd like it if they did more good than harm. The health care bill is an example of more good than harm.

316 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:39:39pm

re: #308 karmic_inquisitor

I saw the other day that Greta Van Susteren is a scientologist.

Anyone else at Fox getting "auditing" sessions?

holy cow i never knew that. i don't watch her much, but she seemed sane...at least relatively...

317 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:39:39pm

re: #310 Walter L. Newton

The bill should be torpedoed?

Wasn't that what Dean was saying? That the bill in its current form should be killed? I could be mistaken, but I thought that's what he said.

318 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:40:09pm

re: #308 karmic_inquisitor

I saw the other day that Greta Van Susteren is a scientologist.

Anyone else at Fox getting "auditing" sessions?

Yea, she's famously a scientologist.

Scientologistsa are usually very right-wing but, for once, I won't actually associate the right wing necessarily with that particular brand of lunacy...

...that is unless they start something to make me change my mind.

But, to be fair, I think most conservatives and right-wing people probably think that Scientology is just as much of a whacked-out money cult crock of shit as as anyone else does.

319 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:40:59pm

re: #267 WindUpBird

I can't watch the liberal blogs right now, some of them want to torpedo the health care bill because it's not perfect. UHGHGH

I here you. Markos is being particularly insufferable about it so the whole DKos community has taken it as a license to go batshit insanere: #295 Jeff In Ohio

Both Iglesias and Ezra Klein had reasoned pieces up today. The rest of the progressives need to know how to sit at the big person's table. Politics is ugly, it's incremental, it's never satisfying. If people want satisfaction, try hashish and chocolate and sex. All at once or individually.

Thank You!

It's not like Social Security was perfect when it was first passed either. HCR is going to be a 50 year effort and this bill is just the start.

320 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:41:33pm

re: #310 Walter L. Newton

The bill should be torpedoed?

I'd actually like to wait until I am sure what bill will be finally brought forward and voted on. I'm waiting to see what amendments are added on and what will happen with the House.

What I want more then anything is for the delaying tactics to end and for the Senate to let us know what they will be voting on and to just get on with it.

321 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:41:39pm

re: #314 Jaerik

I did, but I tuned most of it out after the first 20 minutes for pretty much these reasons.

I was just referencing the Fox News commentators that looked like body builders ;-)

322 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:41:40pm

re: #316 Aceofwhat?

holy cow i never knew that. i don't watch her much, but she seemed sane...at least relatively...

To be fair, there isn't that much difference in Crazy Level between Scientology and many of the fundamentalist Christian groups that Fox News gives airtime to these days.

323 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:41:48pm

re: #318 Summer

Scientology is to the right as LaRouche is to the left. But hey, they got space ships!

324 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:41:51pm

re: #317 WindUpBird

Wasn't that what Dean was saying? That the bill in its current form should be killed? I could be mistaken, but I thought that's what he said.

I shouldn't have put the question mark on the end, I was agreeing with that statement.

325 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:42:04pm

re: #318 Summer

But, to be fair, I think most conservatives and right-wing people probably think that Scientology is just as much of a whacked-out money cult crock of shit as as anyone else does.

I laugh, because they don't see the irony of sending money to the likes of Pat Robertson.

326 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:42:11pm

re: #319 Conservative Moonbat

Thank You!

It's not like Social Security was perfect when it was first passed either. HCR is going to be a 50 year effort and this bill is just the start.

yes! people forget how SS was barely a thing when it was passed.

327 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:42:39pm

re: #319 Conservative Moonbat

Thank You!

It's not like Social Security was perfect when it was first passed either. HCR is going to be a 50 year effort and this bill is just the start.

Then we might as well take the time to do it right, no?

328 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:42:58pm

re: #324 Walter L. Newton

I shouldn't have put the question mark on the end, I was agreeing with that statement.

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

he thinks reconciliation will work. I honestly am baffled by how reconciliation works.

329 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:42:58pm

OT

Poll: [Hillary] Clinton approval soars

75%

Clarus president Ron Faucheux said one reason for Clinton’s high poll numbers is her high approval among Republicans...

330 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:43:31pm

re: #327 brookly red

Then we might as well take the time to do it right, no?

That's just it. it won't be done at all. If you wait for perfection, you will wait until the end of time.

331 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:44:02pm

re: #320 webevintage

I'd actually like to wait until I am sure what bill will be finally brought forward and voted on. I'm waiting to see what amendments are added on and what will happen with the House.

What I want more then anything is for the delaying tactics to end and for the Senate to let us know what they will be voting on and to just get on with it.

that's not the way it works, sorry...the Senate likely will not even know what they are voting on...remember the Stimulus fiasco?...that's the way it works

332 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:44:40pm

re: #328 WindUpBird

I honestly am baffled by how reconciliation works.

As in, works in this particular situation? Or works in general? I've had to explain it to a few people recently, so if the latter, I got a good summary all ready.

333 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:44:46pm

re: #318 Summer

But, to be fair, I think most conservatives and right-wing people probably think that Scientology is just as much of a whacked-out money cult crock of shit as as anyone else does.

*raises hand*
firmly in that camp...

Ever read Bare Faced Messiah, the unauthorized biography? It's utterly fascinating.

334 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:45:39pm

re: #328 WindUpBird

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

he thinks reconciliation will work. I honestly am baffled by how reconciliation works.

Historically reconciliation is used for budget bills. It would set a precedent (and probably a dangerous one) to allow health care to go through the reconciliation process.

335 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:46:21pm

re: #331 albusteve

that's not the way it works, sorry...the Senate likely will not even know what they are voting on...remember the Stimulus fiasco?...that's the way it works

Except they have been putting the bills online so they can be read. Last I read there were a few amendments to be voted on, one to end the doughnut hole and another to allow Americans to buy their drugs from Canada if they want.

336 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:47:12pm

re: #318 Summer

Yea, she's famously a scientologist.

Scientologistsa are usually very right-wing but, for once, I won't actually associate the right wing necessarily with that particular brand of lunacy...

...that is unless they start something to make me change my mind.

But, to be fair, I think most conservatives and right-wing people probably think that Scientology is just as much of a whacked-out money cult crock of shit as as anyone else does.

Well her husband, John Coale, is supposedly part of Team Palin

337 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:47:17pm

re: #322 Jaerik

To be fair, there isn't that much difference in Crazy Level between Scientology and many of the fundamentalist Christian groups that Fox News gives airtime to these days.

Don't. There are crazy Christians, but they're as different from scientologists as they are from KosKidz.

338 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:47:18pm

re: #334 Jeff In Ohio

Historically reconciliation is used for budget bills. It would set a precedent (and probably a dangerous one) to allow health care to go through the reconciliation process.

No precedent-setting involved. Medicare Part D was passed through reconciliation, if you remember.

339 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:47:54pm

re: #330 WindUpBird

That's just it. it won't be done at all. If you wait for perfection, you will wait until the end of time.

Well I was just hoping to wait till the bill was actually written, not to mention read & discussed. /I am just not a trusting person.

340 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:49:11pm

re: #337 Aceofwhat?

On a positive note, I don't see a concerted effort by all the crazy Scientologists to hijack a political party like the craziest Christians. Just saying.

341 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:49:33pm

re: #338 Jaerik

No precedent-setting involved. Medicare Part D was passed through reconciliation, if you remember.

I did not know that. I recall the Bush tax cuts going that way, though.

342 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:50:16pm

re: #337 Aceofwhat?

Don't. There are crazy Christians, but they're as different from scientologists as they are from KosKidz.

No kidding. If anyone knows anything about the whole creation and history of S$cientology, there is almost NO WAY to compare it to even some of the most obscure crazy christian sects. No way. Take it from an expert.

343 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:50:42pm

re: #335 webevintage

Except they have been putting the bills online so they can be read. Last I read there were a few amendments to be voted on, one to end the doughnut hole and another to allow Americans to buy their drugs from Canada if they want.

putting what they have online means litttle...it's the final ball of wax, full of pork, that comes down to a hasty vote without time to reread it...don't be so naive

344 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:50:52pm

re: #326 WindUpBird

yes! people forget how SS was barely a thing when it was passed.

What some people haven't forgotten is that passing social security secured electoral wins for the Dems for years-- and a 4 time POTUS.

That's the other reason the GOP wants it shot down by any means necessary. (And why we've been seeing wingnuts attacking FDR).

345 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:51:13pm

re: #341 Jeff In Ohio

I did not know that. I recall the Bush tax cuts going that way, though.

/don't worry they will be gone soon enough... but remember is is not a tax increase.

346 Summer Seale  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:51:35pm

re: #333 Aceofwhat?

*raises hand*
firmly in that camp...

Ever read Bare Faced Messiah, the unauthorized biography? It's utterly fascinating.

No, but I know of the book. I also read more on scientology probably than most other people and supported some of the anti-scientology action stuff back about ten years ago. =)

347 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:52:02pm

re: #332 Jaerik

As in, works in this particular situation? Or works in general? I've had to explain it to a few people recently, so if the latter, I got a good summary all ready.

I know the very basics, what i don't know is what the limitations are on a bill passed by reconciliation versus a normal 60 vote.

348 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:52:54pm

Time for a long soak in the tub, cu l8r

349 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:53:06pm

re: #347 WindUpBird

...a normal 60 vote.

I don't believe a 60 vote requirement was ever normal until very recently.

350 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:53:43pm

re: #340 theheat

On a positive note, I don't see a concerted effort by all the crazy Scientologists to hijack a political party like the craziest Christians. Just saying.

i'd rather be caught dead than defend that kind of crazy, but it's completely different. that's all i'm saying. one gives good people a bad name, the other was started by an egomaniac famous for the quote "if you want to get rich, start a religion"...

no worries

351 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:55:24pm

re: #350 Aceofwhat?

i'd rather be caught dead than defend that kind of crazy, but it's completely different. that's all i'm saying. one gives good people a bad name, the other was started by an egomaniac famous for the quote "if you want to get rich, start a religion"...

no worries

/that was clear...

352 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:56:08pm

re: #345 brookly red

I'm not worried. :)

353 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:57:37pm

re: #351 brookly red

/that was clear...

you're good people, no matter what everyone else says/

354 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 5:59:45pm

Time for an OT post. This one's quick reading.

Gosh i love Florida. Weather, beaches, trashy bank robbers...

Shirtless man, woman in handcuffs belt rob bank

355 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:01:24pm

Yep, there goes O'Reilly on his radical anti-abortion kick again, inciting hatred against Planned Parenthood based on the "sting" video produced by Lila Rose, who wants to see abortions performed in the "public square."

In the "sting" video, you can see a PP doctor telling Lila Rose's actor that it's safer to have an abortion at a very early stage than to carry a baby to term.

Unfortunately for these nutjobs, that is a well-documented fact. And there's nothing at all strange or unethical about a doctor telling this to a patient who came in specifically asking for information about having an abortion. He told her the truth!

The right wing is completely insane about this issue, and they'll lie and distort without a second thought. And Bill O'Reilly is one of the worst offenders.

356 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:02:22pm

re: #354 Aceofwhat?

Time for an OT post. This one's quick reading.

Gosh i love Florida. Weather, beaches, trashy bank robbers...

Shirtless man, woman in handcuffs belt rob bank

my fav was the guy who held up the bank in a hard hat with his name on it...

357 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:04:19pm

re: #355 Charles

In the "sting" video, you can see a PP doctor telling Lila Rose's actor that it's safer to have an abortion at a very early stage than to carry a baby to term.

Unfortunately for these nutjobs, that is a well-documented fact. And there's nothing at all strange or unethical about a doctor telling this to a patient who came in specifically asking for information about having an abortion.

How dare a Doctor give a patient accurate information!!!!11111!!!!
/

When it comes to these folks truth nor facts get in the way of what they believe.

358 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:06:26pm

re: #344 iceweasel

What some people haven't forgotten is that passing social security secured electoral wins for the Dems for years-- and a 4 time POTUS.

.

Now I like and admire FDR, but that's just nonsense.
FDR's last two electoral wins were during WWII, which playe a MUCH larger part in those elections than social security.

359 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:06:39pm

re: #355 Charles

It enrages them the doctor doesn't embarrass and humiliate their 'actor' to literal tears, telling her to choose life. They can barely bring themselves to say the word abortion, and when they do, they're almost exclusively dishonest about it. The rest make snuff films about it.

360 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:08:30pm

Surgical (or nonsurgical) abortion in the first trimester carries less risk to the health of the woman than carrying a pregnancy to term. That's just a fact. Pregnancy and childbirth puts a hell of a strain on the body. Ask any woman who has gone through it, ask any doctor, or just look up the stats for deaths or complications (versus ones resulting from early trimester abortions).

Naturally, the wingnuts will take this fact -- which is merely a neutral fact, devoid of moral or ethical content, and not entailing any moral or ethical judgments either-- and use it to claim that people are 'promoting' abortion. They've been doing it for decades.

361 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:09:03pm

re: #358 captdiggs

Now I like and admire FDR, but that's just nonsense.
FDR's last two electoral wins were during WWII, which playe a MUCH larger part in those elections than social security.

I think the real point is that Social Security is a successful program that is untouchable, that is a feather in the cap of the Democratic brand, and the GOP would like for health care reform to be another feather.

362 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:09:26pm

re: #361 WindUpBird

BUH! the GOP would *NOT* like for health care etc etc

363 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:11:27pm

re: #361 WindUpBird

I think the real point is that Social Security is a successful program that is untouchable, that is a feather in the cap of the Democratic brand, and the GOP would like for health care reform to be another feather.


untouchable yes, funded ? ehh not so much.

364 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:12:19pm

re: #360 iceweasel

Surgical (or nonsurgical) abortion in the first trimester carries less risk to the health of the woman than carrying a pregnancy to term. That's just a fact. Pregnancy and childbirth puts a hell of a strain on the body. Ask any woman who has gone through it, ask any doctor, or just look up the stats for deaths or complications (versus ones resulting from early trimester abortions).

Naturally, the wingnuts will take this fact -- which is merely a neutral fact, devoid of moral or ethical content, and not entailing any moral or ethical judgments either-- and use it to claim that people are 'promoting' abortion. They've been doing it for decades.

This kind of "sting" is silly. It's a legal procedure, and damn, I would certainly want a doctor to be able to totally advise a patient on all the positives and negatives about birth and abortion.

I'm pro-life.

365 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:12:33pm

re: #359 theheat

It enrages them the doctor doesn't embarrass and humiliate their 'actor' to literal tears, telling her to choose life. They can barely bring themselves to say the word abortion, and when they do, they're almost exclusively dishonest about it. The rest make snuff films about it.

Whether it's claiming that abortion causes breast cancer or promoting some other lie about it leading to an early grave, these sorts of 'prolife' people sure love wallowing in death, don't they?

366 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:13:40pm

re: #347 WindUpBird

I know the very basics, what i don't know is what the limitations are on a bill passed by reconciliation versus a normal 60 vote.

The biggest limitation to a Reconciliation bill is that it must change the federal budget. In other words, you can pass health care reform (like they passed Medicare Part D) through Reconciliation, because it includes changes to spending and/or taxation. You can't use it to say, pass a law against wearing socks with sandals.

You also must show that the change in budget is not "incidental." In other words, you can't pass a law against wearing socks with sandals by arguing it would cause a decrease in tax revenue from sock sales.

It also can't effect Social Security. It has a special exemption.

Reconciliation works by tasking a special committe with writing a version of the bill that then comes directly to the floor for a vote. Because that committee is essentially parroting whatever the majority party wants, it has the practical effect of circumventing a cloture vote, and thus nullifies the filibuster.

367 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:14:04pm

re: #360 iceweasel

Distortions are inexcusable, but i was surprised the Doctor said what he said. His answer was fine, and factual, but a better answer would have been 'this procedure is every bit as safe as you would be if you were to carry the baby to term'. Safety of the mother, absent health risks, plays no part either way as the mortality statistics are infinitesimally low in either case.

But that's nitpicking...which isn't O'Reilly was doing, according to Charles.

368 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:14:44pm

re: #366 Jaerik

The biggest limitation to a Reconciliation bill is that it must change the federal budget. In other words, you can pass health care reform (like they passed Medicare Part D) through Reconciliation, because it includes changes to spending and/or taxation. You can't use it to say, pass a law against wearing socks with sandals.

You also must show that the change in budget is not "incidental." In other words, you can't pass a law against wearing socks with sandals by arguing it would cause a decrease in tax revenue from sock sales.

It also can't effect Social Security. It has a special exemption.

Reconciliation works by tasking a special committe with writing a version of the bill that then comes directly to the floor for a vote. Because that committee is essentially parroting whatever the majority party wants, it has the practical effect of circumventing a cloture vote, and thus nullifies the filibuster.

When does anyone get to read it? When does the public get to read it?

369 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:16:21pm

re: #368 Walter L. Newton

When does anyone get to read it? When does the public get to read it?

/there will be plenty of time to read it, when your waiting on cue.

370 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:16:42pm

re: #361 WindUpBird

The real problem with what is going on with the health care reform is that the majority of voters don't see the need.
People want to blame the pols for "being in the pocket" of whatever, doctors, insurance companies...
But virtually all the polls show that the public is not too kean on what's going on.
Gallup did a poll showing that the vast majority of Americans are happy with their current plan and their health care, which is why there is an undercurrent of resistance.

"According to Gallup's data, 87% of people with private insurance and 82% of people on Medicare or Medicaid say that the quality of their health care is excellent or good. Similarly, 75% of those with private plans and 74% on government-run plans rate their insurance plan as excellent or good. It's hard to convince people that change is necessary when they are pretty content with how things are"
[Link: blog.newsweek.com...]

371 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:16:49pm

re: #367 Aceofwhat?

His answer was fine, and factual, but a better answer would have been 'this procedure is every bit as safe as you would be if you were to carry the baby to term'. Safety of the mother, absent health risks, plays no part either way as the mortality statistics are infinitesimally low in either case.

That would be false. Even the healthiest young woman at the beginning of a pregnancy can develop serious health issues as a result of that pregnancy. Risks are significantly higher than "infinitesimally low".

372 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:16:55pm

re: #367 Aceofwhat?

Distortions are inexcusable, but i was surprised the Doctor said what he said. His answer was fine, and factual, but a better answer would have been 'this procedure is every bit as safe as you would be if you were to carry the baby to term'. Safety of the mother, absent health risks, plays no part either way as the mortality statistics are infinitesimally low in either case.

But that's nitpicking...which isn't O'Reilly was doing, according to Charles.

Actually, the procedure is *safer* than carrying the baby to term, statistically speaking.

373 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:18:03pm

re: #369 brookly red

/there will be plenty of time to read it, when your waiting on cue.

No, I'm serious. If this sort of option is all worked up in a committee and then brought to the floor, does anyone really get to review all of it, at all.

374 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:18:27pm

re: #370 captdiggs

The real problem with what is going on with the health care reform is that the majority of voters don't see the need.

well yes there is that...

375 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:18:48pm

re: #367 Aceofwhat?

Distortions are inexcusable, but i was surprised the Doctor said what he said. His answer was fine, and factual, but a better answer would have been 'this procedure is every bit as safe as you would be if you were to carry the baby to term'.

That's simply not true. Having an abortion at an early stage is MUCH safer than carrying a baby to term.

And I'm not advocating abortion by saying that -- it's a documented medical fact.

376 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:18:54pm

re: #365 iceweasel

Yeah, and producing really gruesome films and propaganda. One I saw recently had Obama as Hitler, dead Holocaust victims, and aborted fetuses - all neatly tied together (in their minds, anyway).

I worked in a huge medical building that included a clinic that did abortions, and these fruitcakes would be out there daily, harassing us, calling us names, and shoving their fetus posters in a our face. It didn't matter to them we all worked in different offices, they needed to brandish their crazy at us. More than once the building had to be cleared for bomb threats.

These people are fucking crazy, and sometimes they kill people.

377 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:19:08pm

re: #373 Walter L. Newton

No, I'm serious. If this sort of option is all worked up in a committee and then brought to the floor, does anyone really get to review all of it, at all.

no.

378 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:19:10pm

re: #370 captdiggs

The real problem with what is going on with the health care reform is that the majority of voters don't see the need.

Yet over 50% consistently supported a public option.

379 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:20:11pm

re: #368 Walter L. Newton

When does anyone get to read it? When does the public get to read it?

That's actually a really good question, and I'm not above admitting I don't know.

I would assume that the bill would come to the floor under the same scheduling and publicity rules something coming out of cloture would.

380 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:20:15pm

re: #371 allegro

That would be false. Even the healthiest young woman at the beginning of a pregnancy can develop serious health issues as a result of that pregnancy. Risks are significantly higher than "infinitesimally low".

that would be false. current risk runs at about 13 deaths per 100,000 births, which includes all cases. that leaves the risk of a healthy young woman dying during childbirth infinitesimally low.

i can link to the CDC if you don't want to take me at my word...

381 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:21:30pm

re: #380 Aceofwhat?

that would be false. current risk runs at about 13 deaths per 100,000 births, which includes all cases. that leaves the risk of a healthy young woman dying during childbirth infinitesimally low.

i can link to the CDC if you don't want to take me at my word...

There are many complications other than death that are quiet serious.

382 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:21:58pm

re: #378 allegro

Yet over 50% consistently supported a public option.

link?

383 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:22:20pm

re: #380 Aceofwhat?

Note I didn't say anything about the specific risk of death. I said health risks. These can be numerous. Kidney issues, blood pressure, etc. that result from pregnancy.

384 Jack Burton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:24:12pm

re: #248 Killgore Trout

I keep thinking this craziness has to achieve critical mass. It's obvious that right wing blogs and Fox are not reporting anything even close to reality. It's too easy to check this out. People are going to eventually figure out they're being duped.

The average Joe republican does not spend all day reading blogs and fact checking everything. Every single person on the right I know other than myself believes every single one of these nontroversies still, without fail. They heard it from Fox or from a friend and that was it for them. These are otherwise sane people who believe in Death Panels. They think the current Health Care bill is a 100% socialist single payer system. They think Obama is really a Muslim. They think Obama voted to murder abortion survivors. They think there might be something to that birth certificate thing, and they swear that Van Jones was a 9-11 Troofer as a confirmed matter of fact. They are also going along with the right embracing Alex Jones and Ron Paul because they never heard of them before and missed 8 years of them calling Bush a nazi.

So no, it wont reach critical mass and explode, it will just keep going until Fox starts retractions or corrections... in other words, never.

385 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:26:42pm

re: #384 ArchangelMichael

The average Joe republican does not spend all day reading blogs and fact checking everything.

Give me an Amen. I think more simply hit the FW FW button on all the kookspiracy & kittens emails they get, as if they're Paul Revere, warning everyone with an email address of impending peril.

386 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:27:36pm
387 Jaerik  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:27:48pm

re: #382 brookly red

link?

59-60% of Americans still support public option as of December 9th. (Warning: PDF)

That's pretty much unchanged since June.

FiveThirtyEight actually has a good breakdown of this apparent paradox. Basically, a non-trivial chunk (12% of the spread) "disapproving" of health care reform are disapproving because they don't think it goes far enough.

388 captdiggs  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:28:07pm

re: #378 allegro

Yet over 50% consistently supported a public option.

I support it too.
My reasoning is that it allows for at least some uninsured to get insured, even if that plan is eventually not the best.
Personally, I like my private plan, though of course I would like to pay less.
I worry about the effect all of this will have on that plan.

My qualm about this legislation is that I am suspicious of any government laws that require over two thousand pages to explain. It reminds me of the IRS and the fact that you can get a different explanation of IRS rules from each IRS person you talk to.

389 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:28:22pm

re: #365 iceweasel

Whether it's claiming that abortion causes breast cancer or promoting some other lie about it leading to an early grave, these sorts of 'prolife' people sure love wallowing in death, don't they?

I believe a woman has the choose to have a baby or not have a baby..
This is 2009 so I think the health issues either way can be addressed by our advanced medical technology..
But the Mother must be in charge of the decision...It is HER Right..
I've always said mom's aren't pregnant for 9 months..They are pregnant for 18 years

390 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:30:00pm

choose=Choice
PIMF me bro!

391 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:30:41pm

re: #375 Charles

That's simply not true. Having an abortion at an early stage is MUCH safer than carrying a baby to term.

And I'm not advocating abortion by saying that -- it's a documented medical fact.

In 2005, there were 7 deaths among 800,000-ish reported abortions (not all states reported, so the ratio isn't perfect). During the same year, i believe that there were 12 deaths per 100,000 births.

But they aren't counted the same. Any death within a year after the delivery that can be said to have been aggravated by the pregnancy is considered a pregnancy-related death, but not so for an abortion related death.

Both rates, therefore, are infinitesimally low once you control for preexisting conditions.

Want the CDC and other links?

392 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:31:07pm

re: #387 Jaerik

59-60% of Americans still support public option as of December 9th. (Warning: PDF)

That's pretty much unchanged since June.

FiveThirtyEight actually has a good breakdown of this apparent paradox. Basically, a non-trivial chunk (12% of the spread) "disapproving" of health care reform are disapproving because they don't think it goes far enough.

OK, then it should be no problem to pass it...

393 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:32:53pm

re: #381 McSpiff

There are many complications other than death that are quiet serious.

One statistic at a time. This can be a very emotionally charged debate, even in this narrow framework, and only by focusing on the numbers do i have a chance of keeping iceweasel and others as friends here. I think it's a narrow but interesting point...and one that i will sacrifice if it becomes too difficult to debate with caution.

394 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:33:01pm

re: #389 HoosierHoops

I believe a woman has the choose to have a baby or not have a baby..
This is 2009 so I think the health issues either way can be addressed by our advanced medical technology..
But the Mother must be in charge of the decision...It is HER Right..
I've always said mom's aren't pregnant for 9 months..They are pregnant for 18 years

abortion = birth control....in it's awesome simplicity, I find that most distasteful, and further to have the public pay for it is beyond the pale to me

395 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:33:09pm

re: #388 captdiggs

Personally, I like my private plan, though of course I would like to pay less.
I worry about the effect all of this will have on that plan.

Since it appears in the Senate bill to be a mandated give-away to the insurance companies without any kind of restrictions on rate increases, etc. along with tax subsidies, I fear premium increases across the board are going to skyrocket. We will see insurance cos profits go up likewise.

396 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:35:17pm

re: #392 brookly red

OK, then it should be no problem to pass it...

yes, how can the dems reconcile the differences in their own party?...I can, the bill sucks and a hell of alot of people already know it....an inconvenient truth

397 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:35:36pm

Hey - MM is on Hannity...

398 myfriendwatson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:36:48pm

Why don't all the millions that support abortion set up a charitable foundation and pay for them? Why is it the govt's responsibility to pay for this?

One of the hallmarks of the left is that they think it's necessary for them to force you to support their charity.

399 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:37:04pm

re: #392 brookly red

OK, then it should be no problem to pass it...

It wouldn't be if you didn't need more then 59% of the Senate to allow a bill to get to the floor.

400 Bagua  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:37:36pm

Facts Not a Stumbling block?

Lies



- Eek -A -Mouse
401 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:37:46pm

MM - immigration reform is the Democratic attempt to import a larger majority...

Of course it is, if the right keeps alienating nonwhite voters...just a thought...how about we go ahead and compete for new citizens' votes?

no? too crazy?

sigh

402 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:38:11pm

re: #398 myfriendwatson

Why don't all the millions that support abortion set up a charitable foundation and pay for them? Why is it the govt's responsibility to pay for this?

One might ask that question for any of a number of government funded issues.

403 myfriendwatson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:38:48pm

re: #402 allegro

True. But there are some that are clear constitutional mandates.

404 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:39:25pm

re: #393 Aceofwhat?

One statistic at a time. This can be a very emotionally charged debate, even in this narrow framework, and only by focusing on the numbers do i have a chance of keeping iceweasel and others as friends here. I think it's a narrow but interesting point...and one that i will sacrifice if it becomes too difficult to debate with caution.

Didn't intend for that to be an emotionally charged statement. I fully agree that the odds of a women dying during child birth are extremely low. But complications in general aren't extremely rare, and they certainly vary in seriousness. Having a baby is an extremely physically and mentally demanding thing. Still friends?

405 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:39:38pm

re: #394 albusteve

abortion = birth control...in it's awesome simplicity, I find that most distasteful, and further to have the public pay for it is beyond the pale to me

I hope you didn't see that I am asking the public to pay for abortions in my post...It is a right by a mother to choose is what I posted.

406 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:39:49pm

re: #402 allegro

One might ask that question for any of a number of government funded issues.

yes, one may, but the question regarded abortion

407 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:40:25pm

re: #391 Aceofwhat?

In 2005, there were 7 deaths among 800,000-ish reported abortions (not all states reported, so the ratio isn't perfect). During the same year, i believe that there were 12 deaths per 100,000 births.

But they aren't counted the same. Any death within a year after the delivery that can be said to have been aggravated by the pregnancy is considered a pregnancy-related death, but not so for an abortion related death.

Both rates, therefore, are infinitesimally low once you control for preexisting conditions.

Want the CDC and other links?

Death isn't the only risk. Abortion at a very early stage is MUCH safer than carrying a baby to term. This is something we call a "fact." And that's why the doctor in that video said what he said. He was giving the actor the best medical information possible.

408 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:41:16pm

re: #396 albusteve

yes, how can the dems reconcile the differences in their own party?...I can, the bill sucks and a hell of alot of people already know it...an inconvenient truth

Well speaking as a registered dem I can only say I just don't want the government involved in my health care. The notion that adding another level of bureaucracy will somehow make things better is beyond my comprehension.

409 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:41:54pm

re: #405 HoosierHoops

I hope you didn't see that I am asking the public to pay for abortions in my post...It is a right by a mother to choose is what I posted.

but the fact is the public is being asked to fund them....back up a step...a woman has the right to choose to become pregnant (in most cases)...start from there....this after the fact choice argument is absurd on the surface imo

410 Bagua  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:41:55pm

re: #407 Charles

Death isn't the only risk. Abortion at a very early stage is MUCH safer than carrying a baby to term. This is something we call a "fact." And that's why the doctor in that video said what he said. He was giving the actor the best medical information possible.

That is a medical fact.

411 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:41:57pm

re: #404 McSpiff

Didn't intend for that to be an emotionally charged statement. I fully agree that the odds of a women dying during child birth are extremely low. But complications in general aren't extremely rare, and they certainly vary in seriousness. Having a baby is an extremely physically and mentally demanding thing. Still friends?

Oh, absolutely - the SUBJECT is emotionally charged...i didn't want to debate more than one stat at a time on this subject. i already made an error that i need to fix, before Charles thinks i'm batshit...

412 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:42:37pm

re: #398 myfriendwatson

If the government acts as a health insurance provider, it's providing the same services a private insurance carrier provides.

I do support groups like Planned Parenthood with whatever I can contribute, whenever I can contribute. I support them because they offer low cost medical exams, contraceptives, and counseling someone may not be able to otherwise afford. The way I look at it, for every sexually active person using contraception, that's one less potential abortion.

I want to be sure they have access to those contraceptives, because I'm pro choice, not pro abortion.

413 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:43:12pm

re: #408 brookly red

Well speaking as a registered dem I can only say I just don't want the government involved in my health care. The notion that adding another level of bureaucracy will somehow make things better is beyond my comprehension.

mine as well...their record is dismal to epic fail....start over, a step at a time

414 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:43:44pm

re: #399 Jeff In Ohio

It wouldn't be if you didn't need more then 59% of the Senate to allow a bill to get to the floor.

but yet they can make your health care decisions in a timely fashion.

415 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:44:10pm

re: #411 Aceofwhat?

Oh, absolutely - the SUBJECT is emotionally charged...i didn't want to debate more than one stat at a time on this subject. i already made an error that i need to fix, before Charles thinks i'm batshit...

No worries at all. For the record I think this is amazingly civil tonight.

416 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:44:47pm

re: #398 myfriendwatson

Why don't all the millions that support abortion set up a charitable foundation and pay for them? Why is it the govt's responsibility to pay for this?

One of the hallmarks of the left is that they think it's necessary for them to force you to support their charity.

One of the hallmarks of a wingnut is that they think abortion is a luxury.

Tell me, are you this incensed over paying for other people's Viagra? Why not?

417 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:45:39pm

Did I miss the Hyde Amendment being discarded?

418 Bagua  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:45:55pm

re: #415 McSpiff

No worries at all. For the record I think this is amazingly civil tonight.

I just got here.

419 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:46:14pm

re: #407 Charles

Death isn't the only risk. Abortion at a very early stage is MUCH safer than carrying a baby to term. This is something we call a "fact." And that's why the doctor in that video said what he said. He was giving the actor the best medical information possible.

Look, it's not important enough to argue about. If CDC statistics aren't enough, then it isn't worth the time to find a larger body of stats that will suffice. And death is an excellent proxy when we want to avoid the month-long debate that would be necessary to qualify complication type and frequency.

Nevermind. Note only that in defense i was prepared to send you CDC data rather than simply spout off.

420 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:46:15pm

re: #416 iceweasel

One of the hallmarks of a wingnut is that they think abortion is a luxury.

Tell me, are you this incensed over paying for other people's Viagra? Why not?

I am of course...you assume too much, too often

421 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:46:25pm

re: #415 McSpiff

No worries at all. For the record I think this is amazingly civil tonight.

It was extremely civil on the health care thread last night too. A couple of months ago and that thread would have been really ugly, I think.

It's been very civil overall lately, in my opinion. I'm loving the new folks, too.

422 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:47:22pm

re: #418 Bagua

I just got here.

this is your flak vest..here's your pepper spray...and don't forget to have fun!

423 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:47:26pm

re: #398 myfriendwatson

Well, you finally said something stupid enough to get me to use the Correlation Tool on your ass, and lo and behold -- you're a previously banned sock puppet with two previous banned sock puppets.

Banned again. Too bad, so sad.

424 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:47:28pm

re: #417 Jeff In Ohio

Did I miss the Hyde Amendment being discarded?

No, but Stupak expands it so that no private insurance will be able to cover the cost either since some women will be receiving federal subsidies for the cost of mandated inruance.

425 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:47:37pm

re: #418 Bagua

I just got here.

And let the good times roll! ;-)

426 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:48:02pm

re: #416 iceweasel

One of the hallmarks of a wingnut is that they think abortion is a luxury.

Tell me, are you this incensed over paying for other people's Viagra? Why not?

/you didn't read the fine print... taxpayer funded viagra is only for the incarcerated. Oh & members of congerss.

427 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:48:31pm

Spaten Optimator is good.

428 Jack Burton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:48:34pm

re: #423 Charles

postus interruptus

I guess banning a douchebag is worth getting up for.

429 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:48:50pm

re: #424 allegro

that would be insurance

430 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:48:57pm

re: #420 albusteve

I am of course...you assume too much, too often

Iceweasels post was to myfriendwatson. It seems you misread too much, too often etc.

431 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:49:11pm
432 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:49:27pm

re: #423 Charles

Well, you finally said something stupid enough to get me to use the Correlation Tool on your ass, and lo and behold -- you're a previously banned sock puppet with two previous banned sock puppets.

Banned again. Too bad, so sad.

Ha! I had a feeling about that one.

433 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:49:31pm

re: #409 albusteve

but the fact is the public is being asked to fund them...back up a step...a woman has the right to choose to become pregnant (in most cases)...start from there...this after the fact choice argument is absurd on the surface imo

Who is asking the public to fund abortions? I thought the Hyde amendment pretty much says no.

434 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:50:00pm

re: #423 Charles

Well, you finally said something stupid enough to get me to use the Correlation Tool on your ass, and lo and behold -- you're a previously banned sock puppet with two previous banned sock puppets.

Banned again. Too bad, so sad.

the CT Scan...CatScan.....looks into the brain, and determines motives and nefarious behavior.....mwahahaha!
good one

435 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:50:12pm

re: #416 iceweasel

One of the hallmarks of a wingnut is that they think abortion is a luxury.

Tell me, are you this incensed over paying for other people's Viagra? Why not?

You are right to say that the economic perspective should be to fund abortion - it's less expensive than funding a properly managed pregnancy.

But it's fair to oppose abortion as a matter of conscience and be concerned that one's tax dollars are going to fund it, is it not? Wingnuts may universally lean in that direction, but that direction does not necessarily a wingnut make, imho...

436 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:50:32pm

re: #430 Jimmah

Iceweasels post was to myfriendwatson. It seems you misread too much, too often etc.

lmao

437 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:50:43pm

re: #409 albusteve

but the fact is the public is being asked to fund them...back up a step...a woman has the right to choose to become pregnant (in most cases)...start from there...this after the fact choice argument is absurd on the surface imo

You back up a step...If a mother is poor and can't afford another child or chooses not to have a child for situations you don't have a clue about...So yes let's give her a helping hand..There are plenty of clinics that will treat a man's VD for free..Or give away my money for cash for clunkers..Or bail out Wall Street with Billions.. This is a highly personal heath and family issue...
Gawd forbid we help out a poor woman..Can't let that happen right?

438 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:51:31pm

Today I heard Ozzy Osbourne's rendition of Iron Man for Christmas.

I AM SANNNTAAA!

I cannot find it on YouTube.

Help?

439 Bagua  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:51:42pm

re: #421 iceweasel

It's been very civil overall lately, in my opinion.

We must remain civil, open minded, and seek out:

The Real Killer

- Hebalizer

440 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:51:59pm

re: #435 Aceofwhat?

But it's fair to oppose abortion as a matter of conscience and be concerned that one's tax dollars are going to fund it, is it not?

Is it fair to oppose the funding of birth control because some find that a matter of conscience as well?

441 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:52:03pm

re: #430 Jimmah

Iceweasels post was to myfriendwatson. It seems you misread too much, too often etc.

I'm presumed to be a wingnut...I post in defense of myself...are you some kind of Regulator?...stirring the pot for no reason?

442 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:52:57pm

re: #441 albusteve

I'm presumed to be a wingnut...I post in defense of myself...are you some kind of Regulator?...stirring the pot for no reason?

You're now assuming that people assume you're a wingnut? I think I've gone and gotten myself all confused...

443 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:53:11pm

re: #437 HoosierHoops

Gawd forbid we help out a poor woman..Can't let that happen right?

No, certainly not, because she isn't just a poor woman - she's a horny hussy murderess that should have heeded abstinence education.
//

444 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:53:42pm

re: #438 MandyManners

Today I heard Ozzy Osbourne's rendition of Iron Man for Christmas.

I AM SANNNTAAA!

I cannot find it on YouTube.

Help?

I am Santa Clause Iron Man Parody

445 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:54:09pm

re: #443 theheat

No, certainly not, because she isn't just a poor woman - she's a horny hussy murderess that should have heeded abstinence education.
//

... and got preggers all by herself.

446 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:54:32pm

re: #437 HoosierHoops

You back up a step...If a mother is poor and can't afford another child or chooses not to have a child for situations you don't have a clue about...So yes let's give her a helping hand..There are plenty of clinics that will treat a man's VD for free..Or give away my money for cash for clunkers..Or bail out Wall Street with Billions.. This is a highly personal heath and family issue...
Gawd forbid we help out a poor woman..Can't let that happen right?

pregnancy is not the same as VD...there are ways to prevent both, cheap and easy...as for helping out poor women that is really disingenuous...

447 Bagua  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:54:37pm

re: #438 MandyManners

Help?


I am Santa Claus

448 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:55:02pm

re: #435 Aceofwhat?


But it's fair to oppose abortion as a matter of conscience and be concerned that one's tax dollars are going to fund it, is it not? Wingnuts may universally lean in that direction, but that direction does not necessarily a wingnut make, imho...

The problem is that the hoopla over 'no taxpayer funds for abortions' is a strategy that has as its final goal the defunding of all abortions in everyone's insurance plans. It sounds reasonable to say "I don't personally like abortion, and I don't want my tax dollars to go towards it", but the ultimate effect is not nearly that simple.

449 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:55:17pm

re: #440 allegro

Is it fair to oppose the funding of birth control because some find that a matter of conscience as well?

well if you look hard enough vaccines, transfusions, transplants are all offensive to someone...

450 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:55:31pm

re: #442 McSpiff

You're now assuming that people assume you're a wingnut? I think I've gone and gotten myself all confused...

it's true....to a liberal, I'm a wingnut...such is life eh?

451 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:55:35pm

re: #424 allegro

No, but Stupak expands it so that no private insurance will be able to cover the cost either since some women will be receiving federal subsidies for the cost of mandated inruance.

Ah yes, the something bipartisan that finally came out of the House.

452 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:55:40pm

re: #446 albusteve

there are ways to prevent both, cheap and easy...as for helping out poor women that is really disingenuous...

Whoa there. When was the last time you bought birth control pills? Went to visit the OB/GYN every six months for the prescriptions? ETC.

453 WindHorse  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:55:46pm

just curious as to how all of this government spending is helping the economy.... Any unemployed personages out there with a comment?

454 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:55:52pm

re: #409 albusteve

but the fact is the public is being asked to fund them...back up a step...a woman has the right to choose to become pregnant (in most cases)...start from there...this after the fact choice argument is absurd on the surface imo

A MAN HAS THE RIGHT TO KEEP HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS. HE HAS THE RIGHT TO WEAR A CONDOM IF HE CHOOSES TO NOT KEEP HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS.

455 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:56:08pm

*ahem*

456 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:56:41pm

re: #454 MandyManners

Go get 'em, Tiger tiger!

457 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:56:54pm

re: #443 theheat

No, certainly not, because she isn't just a poor woman - she's a horny hussy murderess that should have heeded abstinence education.
//

I mean really, how dare woman have sex without BC (even though some say that is abortion too) and then not expect to pay the consequences?
Who do they think they are?
Men?

The politics of abortion are all about women having the right to decide when they will, if ever, have children. It is about being in charge of your own body and your own life.

458 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:56:56pm

re: #449 brookly red

Is it fair to oppose the funding of birth control because some find that a matter of conscience as well?

well if you look hard enough vaccines, transfusions, transplants are all offensive to someone...

Exactly. So they should not be funded either cuz it might offend someone?

459 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:57:38pm

re: #440 allegro

Is it fair to oppose the funding of birth control because some find that a matter of conscience as well?

Sure! And in both cases, it behooves such a person to behave well should their fellow citizens choose the other path. For example, if we fund X despite my principled opposition, i will bow to the will of my fellow citizens. Conscience, i think, is used too much on both sides who then fail to abide civilly by the result of the vote; I think it's only fair to oppose an item on conscience if your conscience is prepared to live well with the result.

460 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:57:39pm

re: #450 albusteve

it's true...to a liberal, I'm a wingnut...such is life eh?

I usually reserve wingnut for someone who is nuts. Can't say you've ever given me any evidence of that.

461 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:57:44pm

re: #444 Racer X

I am Santa Clause Iron Man Parody

[Video]

Maybe. Maybe not. This was on a radio station. Ozzie recorded the song.

462 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:57:50pm

re: #440 allegro

Is it fair to oppose the funding of birth control because some find that a matter of conscience as well?

Or war or toll booths or football stadiums. This social compact thing sure is messy!

463 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:58:21pm

re: #454 MandyManners

A MAN HAS THE RIGHT TO KEEP HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS. HE HAS THE RIGHT TO WEAR A CONDOM IF HE CHOOSES TO NOT KEEP HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS.

/awww come on can we get away from the Tiger Woods shit for just one thread?

464 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:58:21pm

re: #446 albusteve

pregnancy is not the same as VD...there are ways to prevent both, cheap and easy...as for helping out poor women that is really disingenuous...

Tell the man to keep his dick to himself.

IT'S HIS BODY, TOO.

465 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:58:50pm

re: #448 iceweasel

The problem is that the hoopla over 'no taxpayer funds for abortions' is a strategy that has as its final goal the defunding of all abortions in everyone's insurance plans. It sounds reasonable to say "I don't personally like abortion, and I don't want my tax dollars to go towards it", but the ultimate effect is not nearly that simple.

you are correct and I agree with you....but this continued scenario of abortion as birth control must end...I am not against abortion in certain situations and will gladly help fund those....incest, rape, mental illness etc

466 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:59:12pm

re: #454 MandyManners

Please, men, watch out for that zipper. It seemed like a good idea to leave your pants on when you pulled your dick out, but you really ought to at least push them down around your ankles. Your pants, that is.

467 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:59:33pm

re: #464 MandyManners

Tell the man to keep his dick to himself.

In bed

468 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:59:36pm

re: #441 albusteve

I'm presumed to be a wingnut...I post in defense of myself...are you some kind of Regulator?...stirring the pot for no reason?

You don't even approach wingnut. You are reliably right-wing, working from an extreme distrust of government. Sometimes wrong, never crazy.

469 Jack Burton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:59:55pm

re: #466 Jeff In Ohio

Please, men, watch out for that zipper. It seemed like a good idea to leave your pants on when you pulled your dick out, but you really ought to at least push them down around your ankles. Your pants, that is.

Flies spread disease. So keep yours closed.

470 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:59:57pm

re: #462 Jeff In Ohio

Or war or toll booths or football stadiums. This social compact thing sure is messy!

Exactly. A lot of Republicans don't want to pay taxes anymore just because a Dem in the White House. Too bad.

471 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 6:59:59pm

re: #447 Bagua


I am Santa Claus



THAT'S IT!!!

I need a YouTube link 'cause I can't handle MPthingies.

Is there one?

472 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:00:09pm

re: #454 MandyManners

A MAN HAS THE RIGHT TO KEEP HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS. HE HAS THE RIGHT TO WEAR A CONDOM IF HE CHOOSES TO NOT KEEP HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS.

indeed, there is the seed as well as the egg to consider

473 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:00:21pm

re: #446 albusteve

pregnancy is not the same as VD...there are ways to prevent both, cheap and easy...as for helping out poor women that is really disingenuous...

Oh Really? I know a lot of rich women..I'm sure they all go running to the welfare Dept for medical issues...Especially in a crises..
And don't you ever call me fucking disingenuous again...That is the last thing you ever what to call me...

474 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:00:24pm

re: #459 Aceofwhat?

Conscience, i think, is used too much on both sides who then fail to abide civilly by the result of the vote; I think it's only fair to oppose an item on conscience if your conscience is prepared to live well with the result.

With this, I agree. Abortion is a safe, legal procedure and a matter between a woman and her doctor. What gives anyone the right to vote on how women choose to use, or not use, their wombs?

475 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:00:39pm

re: #457 webevintage

Do you remember when the morning after pill was being debated, after it was already legal in Europe? Murder, murder it was!

I distinctly remember reading a group had said it was time for another Boston tea Party, regarding the shipment of the pills. (The tea party mentality's been brewing for quite some time.)

For some reason, the idea of choiceless and knocked up is so appealing to those who are not, particularly if they can somehow further demean the affected.

476 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:00:40pm

re: #450 albusteve

it's true...to a liberal, I'm a wingnut...such is life eh?

But you have great taste in music. Ying and yang, life rolls on.

477 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:00:57pm

re: #458 allegro

Exactly. So they should not be funded either cuz it might offend someone?

no, they should not be funded because government has no place in health care.

478 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:01:21pm

re: #441 albusteve

I'm presumed to be a wingnut...I post in defense of myself...are you some kind of Regulator?...stirring the pot for no reason?

Well if you want to own that tag, thats your business of course. However the question was clearly directed specifically at that poster, not the entire wingnut nation. Is it so hard to just admit you made a mistake and move on?

479 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:01:21pm

re: #468 Decatur Deb

You don't even approach wingnut. You are reliably right-wing, working from an extreme distrust of government. Sometimes wrong, never crazy.

and often misunderstood...woe is me....heh

480 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:01:30pm

re: #448 iceweasel

The problem is that the hoopla over 'no taxpayer funds for abortions' is a strategy that has as its final goal the defunding of all abortions in everyone's insurance plans. It sounds reasonable to say "I don't personally like abortion, and I don't want my tax dollars to go towards it", but the ultimate effect is not nearly that simple.

You're right, no question. That's an entire discussion in itself. I only wanted to insert a statement that civil, respecful opposition to taxpayer funds used for abortion does not necessarily a wingnut make. That does not mean that it's as simple as opposing taxpayer funds in this instance and then wiping hands and moving to the next item.

481 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:01:33pm

re: #457 webevintage

I mean really, how dare woman have sex without BC (even though some say that is abortion too) and then not expect to pay the consequences?
Who do they think they are?
Men?

The politics of abortion are all about women having the right to decide when they will, if ever, have children. It is about being in charge of your own body and your own life.

Precisely. It's not merely about the right to control your own body-- although that ought to be enough! -- but about the right to choose when and where and how to become a mother, because you want to have children only when you can be the best mother possible.
The prochoice folks have missed the boat somewhat by not framing the debate in those terms, IMO.

BTW, this?

I mean really, how dare woman have sex without BC (even though some say that is abortion too) and then not expect to pay the consequences?
Who do they think they are?
Men?


Freakin BRILLIANT.

482 That's Glenn Beck to you  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:02:48pm

So tonight is the night.

The night that I bring you the That's Glenn Beck To You Holiday Special!

We'll be singing carols by the fire, drinking hot-yet-not-alcoholic beverages and celebrating the season! It may tak a while and get strung out over a few threads, but what the heck - I used to be an adict so getting strung out might be kinda fun!

So to start things off we go to the Estate of That's Grand Lord on High Monckton To You who will be bringing us a song, helped by the BNP Skinhead Choir.

483 Jack Burton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:03:45pm

re: #482 That's Glenn Beck to you

Did you bring your Christmas Sweater?

484 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:03:59pm

I wonder how many of those who demand that women should be the ones in charge of preventing pregnancy also believe that men should have no voice in the decision to terminate a pregnancy.

485 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:04:10pm

re: #481 iceweasel

Freakin BRILLIANT.

I blush...

486 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:05:07pm

re: #484 MandyManners

I wonder how many of those who demand that women should be the ones in charge of preventing pregnancy also believe that men should have no voice in the decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Excellent question.

487 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:06:00pm

re: #445 allegro

... and got preggers all by herself.

Well, it's not the first time that's happened.....

Image: 3168794.jpg

488 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:06:18pm

re: #391 Aceofwhat?

In 2005, there were 7 deaths among 800,000-ish reported abortions (not all states reported, so the ratio isn't perfect). During the same year, i believe that there were 12 deaths per 100,000 births.

But they aren't counted the same. Any death within a year after the delivery that can be said to have been aggravated by the pregnancy is considered a pregnancy-related death, but not so for an abortion related death.

Both rates, therefore, are infinitesimally low once you control for preexisting conditions.

Want the CDC and other links?

I don't think you'll like what the CDC really has to say about this issue, because the actual statistics demonstrate conclusively that carrying a baby to term is indisputably more dangerous than having an abortion at a very early stage of pregnancy.

You've been getting too much of your information from fundamentalist anti-abortion sites.

489 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:06:42pm

re: #487 Kruk

I think even Mary had help... so the story goes.

490 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:06:56pm

re: #477 brookly red

no, they should not be funded because government has no place in health care.

Let me adjust that. The Federal government has no place in health care. If a state or states want to go there fine.

491 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:07:23pm

re: #489 allegro

Asshole.

492 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:07:34pm

re: #484 MandyManners

I wonder how many of those who demand that women should be the ones in charge of preventing pregnancy also believe that men should have no voice in the decision to terminate a pregnancy.

I believe that women are not incubators a guy can put his dick into. Either women have 100% autonomy over their bodies and are equal citizens or they are not. No, a man should have no legal rights when it comes to terminating the pregnancy. To say otherwise is to reduce women to the status of terrariums.

493 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:07:34pm

re: #474 allegro

With this, I agree. Abortion is a safe, legal procedure and a matter between a woman and her doctor. What gives anyone the right to vote on how women choose to use, or not use, their wombs?

because it's not that biologically simple. what's the difference between a 36-week old baby in the womb vs. out of the womb? biologically speaking, it's the umbilical cord. is the severance of the umbilical cord the most logical point to declare the child free of the womb, and by extension, from how a woman would choose to use her womb?

(please please note that i realize how sensitive this conversation can get very quickly...i am asking questions in good faith because i rarely get the opportunity...shut me down at any point if this discussion goes south)

494 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:07:48pm

re: #471 MandyManners

THAT'S IT!!!

I need a YouTube link 'cause I can't handle MPthingies.

Is there one?

I think this is it.

I Am Santa Claus - Bob Rivers - Lyrics

495 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:07:53pm

re: #441 albusteve

I'm presumed to be a wingnut...I post in defense of myself...are you some kind of Regulator?...stirring the pot for no reason?

A favorite poster of this reader.
{{albusteve}}

496 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:08:20pm

re: #490 brookly red

no, they should not be funded because government has no place in health care.

Tell that to the VA, Tri-care, Medicare, Medicaid...

497 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:09:30pm

re: #491 MandyManners

re: #489 allegro

Asshole.

Huh? I thought you asked a great question. That makes me an asshole?

498 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:10:09pm

re: #486 allegro

Excellent question.

The answer makes one stop and think.

It takes me back to my No. 454.

499 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:10:11pm

re: #473 HoosierHoops

Oh Really? I know a lot of rich women..I'm sure they all go running to the welfare Dept for medical issues...Especially in a crises..
And don't you ever call me fucking disingenuous again...That is the last thing you ever what to call me...

then don't imply I don't care about poor woman, and I won't call you disingenuous, reread 437....pretty simple

500 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:10:57pm

re: #491 MandyManners

Asshole.

Not called for. God had something to do with it, remember? According to believers.

501 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:11:04pm

re: #492 Conservative Moonbat

I believe that women are not incubators a guy can put his dick into. Either women have 100% autonomy over their bodies and are equal citizens or they are not. No, a man should have no legal rights when it comes to terminating the pregnancy. To say otherwise is to reduce women to the status of terrariums.

However, does his sperm not have rights?

502 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:11:49pm

re: #492 Conservative Moonbat

I believe that women are not incubators a guy can put his dick into. Either women have 100% autonomy over their bodies and are equal citizens or they are not. No, a man should have no legal rights when it comes to terminating the pregnancy. To say otherwise is to reduce women to the status of terrariums.

Absolutely, and this is why I have a problem with the "rights of the fetus" argument. Granting a fetus inalienable rights cannot happen without taking away some of the rights of the woman carrying it.

503 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:12:23pm

Casablanca is on TV! One of my favorite old timey movies.. ( OK I haven't seen that many ) Why isn't it in Color? *ducks*
play it again Sam!

504 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:12:27pm

re: #478 Jimmah

Well if you want to own that tag, thats your business of course. However the question was clearly directed specifically at that poster, not the entire wingnut nation. Is it so hard to just admit you made a mistake and move on?

yes, I consider myself perfect

505 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:12:52pm

re: #454 MandyManners

A MAN HAS THE RIGHT TO KEEP HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS.

WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT.

err, wait. It's cold out.

506 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:12:59pm

re: #497 allegro

Huh? I thought you asked a great question. That makes me an asshole?

I'm not a Catholic but, smears against Mary really piss me off.

507 Jadespring  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:13:03pm

re: #484 MandyManners

I wonder how many of those who demand that women should be the ones in charge of preventing pregnancy also believe that men should have no voice in the decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Legally? No. Ethically and morally? I'd say yes but in the end that's up to the woman in question.

508 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:13:20pm

re: #475 theheat

For some reason, the idea of choiceless and knocked up is so appealing to those who are not, particularly if they can somehow further demean the affected.

Indeed.

Control over women, control over our lives and how once we can control our reproductive lives they have now lost control of us.
(that would be dudes like Dobson and Phyllis (do as I say not as i do) Schlafly)

The other "pro-life" folks who get my ire are those who want to end abortion but also do not want welfare or section 8 housing or food stamps or daycare funding or...well I could go on and on.
(The Catholic church is not in this groups as they support social programs that help poor and lower middle class woman and families, but conservative pols would be more who i am thinking of)

509 Bagua  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:13:29pm

OT for those following the COP15

Copenhagen climate conference: ministers plan new summit

World leaders could put off major decisions on global warming for another six months time amid a warning from Gordon Brown that at the Copenhagen climate conference is threatened with “deadlock”.

510 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:13:35pm

re: #502 Kruk

Absolutely, and this is why I have a problem with the "rights of the fetus" argument. Granting a fetus inalienable rights cannot happen without taking away some of the rights of the woman carrying it.

Moves to grant fetuses rights or the status of personhood (as in some of the laws involving fetal homicides)* are always attempts to take away the rights of the woman.

*(notice I said 'some' of those laws. Some are framed in acceptable ways, some are not.)

511 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:13:36pm

re: #488 Charles

I don't think you'll like what the CDC really has to say about this issue, because the actual statistics demonstrate conclusively that carrying a baby to term is indisputably more dangerous than having an abortion at a very early stage of pregnancy.

You've been getting too much of your information from fundamentalist anti-abortion sites.

Come on, there's no need to say that. I've never been to one. I've been back and forth between two sites - the CDC and a colorado state government site.

I told you, it's not important enough to argue about. But i literally was only compiling statistics from the two sites above...it's been forever since i looked at the stats and i needed the help.

I don't know what telling me that i went to some fundie website does for the discussion except make it suck a little more than it did five minutes ago. I had already said to forget it. I read something different from the stats...maybe i was wrong and about to find out. Who cares. But i wasn't lying about where i was looking, and saying differently isn't going to help anything.

512 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:13:48pm
513 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:13:59pm

re: #493 Aceofwhat?

because it's not that biologically simple. what's the difference between a 36-week old baby in the womb vs. out of the womb? biologically speaking, it's the umbilical cord. is the severance of the umbilical cord the most logical point to declare the child free of the womb, and by extension, from how a woman would choose to use her womb?

At 36 weeks, a fetus may, or may not, survive on its own outside of the womb. This becomes a tricky question. The thing is, abortions at that stage are not done on a whim or without something having gone terribly wrong with the pregnancy. Either the mother's life or health is in serious jeopardy, the fetus is dead or will not survive after birth, etc.

514 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:14:04pm

re: #501 MandyManners

However, does his sperm not have rights?

I sure hope not, or most men would be commiting genocide charges on a nightly basis...

515 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:14:13pm

re: #484 MandyManners

I wonder how many of those who demand that women should be the ones in charge of preventing pregnancy also believe that men should have no voice in the decision to terminate a pregnancy.

seems like if sex is a mutual endeavor, then deciding on pregnancy measures should be as well

516 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:14:46pm

re: #506 MandyManners

I'm not a Catholic but, smears against Mary really piss me off.

Except no one smeared Mary.

517 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:14:53pm

re: #509 Bagua

OT for those following the COP15

Copenhagen climate conference: ministers plan new summit

World leaders could put off major decisions on global warming for another six months time amid a warning from Gordon Brown that at the Copenhagen climate conference is threatened with “deadlock”.

Shocka!

518 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:15:12pm

re: #494 Racer X

I think this is it.

I Am Santa Claus - Bob Rivers - Lyrics

[Video]

That's not Ozzie.

519 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:15:53pm

re: #506 MandyManners

I'm not a Catholic but, smears against Mary really piss me off.

Why? Are you similarly pissed off by smears against Isis or Demeter? Why or why not?

520 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:16:32pm

re: #506 MandyManners

I'm not a Catholic but, smears against Mary really piss me off.

There was no smear intended. I was referring to God, who according to the story, impregnated her.

521 Girth  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:16:35pm

re: #503 HoosierHoops

Casablanca is on TV! One of my favorite old timey movies.. ( OK I haven't seen that many ) Why isn't it in Color? *ducks*
play it again Sam!

It's Bogie night on TCM. I'm loving it.

BTW, that's a misquote. No one in the movie says that line.

And color? BLASPHEMY!

522 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:16:49pm

re: #510 iceweasel

Moves to grant fetuses rights or the status of personhood (as in some of the laws involving fetal homicides)* are always attempts to take away the rights of the woman.

*(notice I said 'some' of those laws. Some are framed in acceptable ways, some are not.)

sticky... it comes down to the intent of the mother.

523 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:17:10pm

re: #515 albusteve

seems like if sex is a mutual endeavor, then deciding on pregnancy measures should be as well

I agree. If the man wishes to take over the pregnancy and carry it to term, he should be allowed. I saw a documentary on that once with this austrian chap: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

524 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:17:30pm

re: #506 MandyManners

I'm not a Catholic but, smears against Mary really piss me off.

I was very Catholic, and didn't see a smear. Holy Ghost was a partner.

525 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:17:32pm

re: #513 allegro

At 36 weeks, a fetus may, or may not, survive on its own outside of the womb. This becomes a tricky question. The thing is, abortions at that stage are not done on a whim or without something having gone terribly wrong with the pregnancy. Either the mother's life or health is in serious jeopardy, the fetus is dead or will not survive after birth, etc.

Ok, very fair. And interesting. Thanks. I think i'm going to switch to lighter topics. Charles, for some reason, thinks i'm getting information from places that i'm not, despite my clear attempts to be as civil and transparent as possible. It's not worth getting painted with the fundy crazy silly brush...

526 iheartbolton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:17:33pm

re: #519 negativ

exactly - she's not real

527 That's Grand Lord On High Monckton to you  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:17:42pm

re: #482 That's Glenn Beck to you

Thank You Glenn.

You know, as I have traveled the world to warn all of the New World Order and its conspiracists, I have often found myself confronted with unpleasant people and unpleasant situations.

So I oft times hum a little song that is sometimes played at Christmas here on Old Blighty - you probably know it from The Sound of Music - My Favourite Things.

Fanning the passions of gullible people
Claiming that Muslims will soon tear down steeples
Filling their minds with the words "climategate"
"New world order" And "Bolshevik state"

Posing as expert on all sorts of issues
Authoring essays built thinner than tissues
Speaking to morons for faux praise it brings
These are just some of my favourite things.

When called "asshat"
or "Lord Climate Clown"
When I'm feeling sad
I simply remember my favourite things
And then I don't feel so bad

Chasing down peons who've strayed onto my land
Preserving peerage requires a firm hand
Vagrants chased down by packs of my dogs!
Accusing servants of being Communist cogs!

Yelling "you nazi" at any critics
Refuting without aid of statistics
Abusing my title to say something's true
These are some reasons I'm better than you

When called "asshat"
or "Lord Climate Clown"
When I'm feeling sad
I simply remember my favourite things
And then I don't feel so bad

528 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:17:48pm

re: #511 Aceofwhat?

Come on, there's no need to say that. I've never been to one. I've been back and forth between two sites - the CDC and a colorado state government site.

I get irritated when people try to tell me things I know for a fact are not true.

529 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:18:10pm

re: #523 McSpiff

I agree. If the man wishes to take over the pregnancy and carry it to term, he should be allowed. I saw a documentary on that once with this austrian chap: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Mr. Mom!....I saw that!

530 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:18:50pm

re: #508 webevintage

Good points, but I am completely opposed to the Catholic church's stance on birth control. I'm glad they assist families in need, but they do less than nothing to help prevent the problem. At least, not in a real world sense. Preaching abstinence is not a real world solution. Never has been.

531 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:19:15pm

re: #503 HoosierHoops

Casablanca is on TV! One of my favorite old timey movies.. ( OK I haven't seen that many ) Why isn't it in Color? *ducks*
play it again Sam!

You have recently discovered that the teevee plays movies, as well as sports? LOL!

{{HH}}

532 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:19:58pm

re: #530 theheat

Good points, but I am completely opposed to the Catholic church's stance on birth control. I'm glad they assist families in need, but they do less than nothing to help prevent the problem. At least, not in a real world sense. Preaching abstinence is not a real world solution. Never has been.

it's worked for me lately, and I'm not even Catholic

533 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:20:10pm
534 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:20:11pm

re: #515 albusteve

seems like if sex is a mutual endeavor, then deciding on pregnancy measures should be as well

You make it sound like a man has no control over whether a pregnancy happens or not. Condoms don't cost that much, and there are permanant measures if you want to be absolutely sure. However, the idea that by consenting to sex, a woman gives a man a vote in what happens to her body for the next nine months and her life for the next eighteen years (at least) is risible.

535 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:20:13pm

re: #526 iheartbolton

exactly - she's not real

I've really had enough of this troll. Bye now!

536 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:20:22pm

re: #532 albusteve

Bit that's probably not by choice ;-)

537 albusteve  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:21:39pm

re: #534 Kruk

You make it sound like a man has no control over whether a pregnancy happens or not. Condoms don't cost that much, and there are permanant measures if you want to be absolutely sure. However, the idea that by consenting to sex, a woman gives a man a vote in what happens to her body for the next nine months and her life for the next eighteen years (at least) is risible.

should be mutual?...how can I be more clear?

538 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:21:57pm

re: #522 brookly red

sticky... it comes down to the intent of the mother.

I dug up a ton of info on the different fetal homicide laws by state for someone here a while ago, but I can't remember the details now. There are two sorts of laws that allow for extra charges in the event of a pregnant woman being harmed (and the fetus sustaining harm). One class of those laws is objectionable because it's framed in terms that grant rights or person-like status to the fetus -- the worry is that those laws can theoretically be extended to attack abortion rights (or even punish pregnant women themselves).

The other class of laws is framed in a way so as to recognise that additional harm has been done, and further charges/punishment can be levied, but avoids granting rights to the fetus or creating a person-like status for them.

539 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:22:16pm

re: #535 Charles

I've really had enough of this troll. Bye now!

Thank you for that!

540 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:22:27pm

re: #528 Charles

I get irritated when people try to tell me things I know for a fact are not true.

Fine. No problem. Me too. But earlier, i got it and i cut off the discussion because i got it.

Going overboard with the fundie crazy shit is only necessary when you really can't get someone to shut the hell up. Whereas i'm working my ass off to be civil and transparent and focused on a very narrow aspect that might lend itself to polite discussion. But hey, fuck me, right?

541 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:22:44pm

re: #499 albusteve

then don't imply I don't care about poor woman, and I won't call you disingenuous, reread 437...pretty simple

I wasn't implying you don't care about poor women...It was a Gov't policy statement I was referring too...Sorry about the misunderstanding

542 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:22:57pm

re: #534 Kruk

You make it sound like a man has no control over whether a pregnancy happens or not. Condoms don't cost that much, and there are permanant measures if you want to be absolutely sure. However, the idea that by consenting to sex, a woman gives a man a vote in what happens to her body for the next nine months and her life for the next eighteen years (at least) is risible.

Some would argue that she does if she doesn't take care of B.C. on her own.

I'm one of those.

543 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:24:06pm

re: #537 albusteve

should be mutual?...how can I be more clear?

How can anything that concerns the autonomy of one person's body ever be a mutual decision? No-one gets a vote in what happens to me, and I don't get a vote in what happens to anyone else.

544 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:25:16pm

re: #540 Aceofwhat?

Fine. No problem. Me too. But earlier, i got it and i cut off the discussion because i got it.

Going overboard with the fundie crazy shit is only necessary when you really can't get someone to shut the hell up. Whereas i'm working my ass off to be civil and transparent and focused on a very narrow aspect that might lend itself to polite discussion. But hey, fuck me, right?

You know who else is working his ass off? Charles. To keep running this site, where you can continue to post. For free I might add. Might want to keep that in mind before you go try too hard to play the poor martyr.

545 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:25:16pm

re: #542 MandyManners

Some would argue that she does if she doesn't take care of B.C. on her own.

I'm one of those.

No BC method is failsafe.

546 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:25:53pm

re: #543 Kruk

How can anything that concerns the autonomy of one person's body ever be a mutual decision? No-one gets a vote in what happens to me, and I don't get a vote in what happens to anyone else.

My wife and I have made a lot of those decisions, including when life should be ended.

547 Bagua  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:26:13pm

re: #540 Aceofwhat?

There's no need to be rude or oversensitive.

549 WindHorse  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:26:29pm

re: #545 Conservative Moonbat

except for abstinence....

550 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:27:43pm

re: #543 Kruk

How can anything that concerns the autonomy of one person's body ever be a mutual decision? No-one gets a vote in what happens to me, and I don't get a vote in what happens to anyone else.

You know, we don't even allow laws to force someone to donate blood or bone marrow, even if it would save a person's life. But some people would like a law to force women to carry a baby to term.

Something is very, very wrong with that mindset.

551 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:28:08pm

re: #542 MandyManners

Some would argue that she does if she doesn't take care of B.C. on her own.

I'm one of those.

I'm one of those who believes consequences should be proportional to actions. For me, losing autonomy over yourself (the most basic and important right we all have) is massively disproportionate to failing to use birth control or having birth control fail.

552 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:28:08pm

re: #549 WindHorse

except for abstinence...

Abstinence is not a birth control method. It's a lifestyle decision. It's particularly annoying that so many Christians try and force a lifestyle on people and call it birth control.

553 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:28:30pm

re: #549 WindHorse

Abstinence: the gilt unicorn.

554 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:28:55pm

re: #540 Aceofwhat?

Remember the first rule of holes?

555 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:29:08pm

re: #531 Floral Giraffe

You have recently discovered that the teevee plays movies, as well as sports? LOL!

{{HH}}

{Floral} Hard to believe isn't it?
Hope today finds you well..
/Call your bookie..I'll never make it through the whole movie..ESPN soon
*wink*

556 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:29:43pm

re: #553 theheat

Abstinence: the gilt unicorn.

Abstinence is like going to the mall when you would rather be mountain climbing.

557 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:29:49pm

re: #544 McSpiff

You know who else is working his ass off? Charles. To keep running this site, where you can continue to post. For free I might add. Might want to keep that in mind before you go try too hard to play the poor martyr.

All the work in the world doesn't change the fact that i wasn't trolling for information on any website other than the CDC and cdphe.state.co.gov. I can have a ton of respect for what Charles does and still stand up for myself. go look for a doormat somewhere else - i didn't do what he said i did and i'm not shy about standing up about it.

558 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:30:11pm
559 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:30:22pm

re: #556 Gus 802

And bad sex is like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

560 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:30:32pm

re: #542 MandyManners

When you are the person facing a 9 month to 18 year responsibility, I would have to agree that the "burden" of contraception falls on the woman.

561 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:30:55pm

re: #546 Decatur Deb

My wife and I have made a lot of those decisions, including when life should be ended.

I assume this was done by agreement between the two of you, in which case you each made an individual decision to allow the other a say. However, if we say it *should* be by mutual agreement, then each person is denied the right to make an individual decision.

562 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:30:57pm

re: #553 theheat

Abstinence? Who needs that? We just use the old she's on top method. Can't get pregnant that way - you've heard of gravity, right?

563 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:31:19pm

re: #555 HoosierHoops

{Floral} Hard to believe isn't it?
Hope today finds you well..
/Call your bookie..I'll never make it through the whole movie..ESPN soon
*wink*

LOL!
What shall I call my bookie?
{{HH}}

564 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:31:35pm

re: #504 albusteve

yes, I consider myself perfect

You mean like, flawless? I see...;-)

565 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:31:40pm

re: #554 Floral Giraffe

Remember the first rule of holes?

Non, je ne me rappelle pas. Aide-mois?

566 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:31:59pm

re: #557 Aceofwhat?

All the work in the world doesn't change the fact that i wasn't trolling for information on any website other than the CDC and cdphe.state.co.gov. I can have a ton of respect for what Charles does and still stand up for myself. go look for a doormat somewhere else - i didn't do what he said i did and i'm not shy about standing up about it.

You're acting like the fact that you can remain civil in this discussion is something miraculous. It's not. It's the minium expected. And your starting to slip up. So from one poster to another, I'm simply suggesting you watch yourself a little closer.

567 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:32:40pm

Hey! My video disappeared!

//

I was about to say, not that crap again.

568 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:32:42pm

re: #558 Racer X

Please don't post that bigoted Christian Action Network crap at LGF.

Good grief. How many times are people going to fall for this stuff?

569 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:33:02pm

re: #557 Aceofwhat?

All the work in the world doesn't change the fact that i wasn't trolling for information on any website other than the CDC and cdphe.state.co.gov. I can have a ton of respect for what Charles does and still stand up for myself. go look for a doormat somewhere else - i didn't do what he said i did and i'm not shy about standing up about it.

Dude-- be cool. i don't think you're getting your info off the fundie sites, but the fact is the fundie sites do run the kind of argument you've been running with similar misunderstandings about the stats re: abortion risks/pregnancy risks. That's all.

570 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:33:56pm

re: #538 iceweasel

I dug up a ton of info on the different fetal homicide laws by state for someone here a while ago, but I can't remember the details now. There are two sorts of laws that allow for extra charges in the event of a pregnant woman being harmed (and the fetus sustaining harm). One class of those laws is objectionable because it's framed in terms that grant rights or person-like status to the fetus -- the worry is that those laws can theoretically be extended to attack abortion rights (or even punish pregnant women themselves).

The other class of laws is framed in a way so as to recognise that additional harm has been done, and further charges/punishment can be levied, but avoids granting rights to the fetus or creating a person-like status for them.

re: #545 Conservative Moonbat


Like I said sticky. If the mother wants the fetus it's a person with rights... if not it isn't. In the end it comes down to protecting women (or it should) but it it can go either way. I don't have an answer but in the end it will have to be one or the other.

571 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:34:08pm

re: #568 Charles

Please don't post that bigoted Christian Action Network crap at LGF.

Good grief. How many times are people going to fall for this stuff?

Sorry Charles - I had never seen that one before. Did not know it was BS.

572 WindHorse  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:34:21pm

hey.... I am not a religious sort.... and I wasn't trying to make some sort of statement except that, if you don't have sex, no one gets pregnant.

573 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:34:44pm

re: #561 Kruk

I assume this was done by agreement between the two of you, in which case you each made an individual decision to allow the other a say. However, if we say it *should* be by mutual agreement, then each person is denied the right to make an individual decision.

It happens to be planned in our case, but you are underestimating the power one married person has over another. The pulling of plugs is just a good clear case. See Schiavo situation.

574 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:34:48pm

re: #552 Conservative Moonbat

Abstinence is not a birth control method. It's a lifestyle decision. It's particularly annoying that so many Christians try and force a lifestyle on people and call it birth control.

Especially when any number of them (or their children) seem to be unable to practice that which they would like the rest of us to do.

575 WindHorse  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:34:50pm

(I have two teenage sons)

576 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:35:20pm

re: #569 iceweasel

don't worry. i'm mum until the next topic.

577 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:35:40pm

re: #552 Conservative Moonbat

Abstinence is not a birth control method. It's a lifestyle decision. It's particularly annoying that so many Christians try and force a lifestyle on people and call it birth control.

Well said.

578 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:36:24pm

re: #557 Aceofwhat?

All the work in the world doesn't change the fact that i wasn't trolling for information on any website other than the CDC and cdphe.state.co.gov. I can have a ton of respect for what Charles does and still stand up for myself. go look for a doormat somewhere else - i didn't do what he said i did and i'm not shy about standing up about it.

When you're finished standing up for yourself, let me know. Meanwhile, your claim that having an abortion at an early stage of pregnancy is just as dangerous as carrying a baby to term is still completely false.

579 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:36:47pm

re: #545 Conservative Moonbat

No BC method is failsafe.

Celibacy is fool-proof.

580 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:37:05pm

re: #572 WindHorse

Getting pregnant without sex would really suck. At least, for most people.

581 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:37:08pm

re: #565 Aceofwhat?

Como se dice...
stop digging?
Gracias!
LOL!

582 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:37:48pm

re: #560 Floral Giraffe

When you are the person facing a 9 month to 18 year responsibility, I would have to agree that the "burden" of contraception falls on the woman.

Well, one reason for the failure to develop more forms of birth control for men is that women doubt they can trust men to use them. It's easy enough for women to miss taking a pill or make another mistake; men don't have the same personal incentive to prevent pregnancy because ultimately it isn't their body that gets pregnant.

583 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:38:06pm

I like sex. I fail to see how abstinence would address that.

584 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:39:14pm

Abortion is legal. The SCOTUS decision in Roe v. Wade made it as such. It is a difficult decision for those involved most particularly the woman. Abortion must remain legal and Roe v. Wade should never be reversed.

585 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:39:36pm

re: #579 MandyManners

Celibacy is fool-proof.

But not a form of birth control.

586 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:39:40pm

re: #578 Charles

then i was making a statistical error with the CDC data. fine. sorry to get everyone's dander up. next topic...

587 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:39:48pm

re: #583 Jeff In Ohio

I like sex. I fail to see how abstinence would address that.

Abstinence addresses sex:

Dear Sex,
Just say no.
Love (but no kisses)
Abstinence.

588 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:39:53pm

re: #573 Decatur Deb

It happens to be planned in our case, but you are underestimating the power one married person has over another. The pulling of plugs is just a good clear case. See Schiavo situation.

In the Schiavo case, the person didn't have the capacity to make a decision on her behalf, which was why that right passed to her next of kin. (I would *hope* no-one seriously suggests a pregnant woman falls into this category.) The Schiavo case is also a perfect example of why legal documents like a living will or enduring power of attorney are a good idea for everyone. It lets each of us chose how the decisions that affect us will be made even when we're not capable of making those decisions.

589 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:40:07pm

re: #583 Jeff In Ohio

I like sex. I fail to see how abstinence would address that.

/ask your partner...

590 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:40:07pm

re: #582 iceweasel

Well, one reason for the failure to develop more forms of birth control for men is that women doubt they can trust men to use them. It's easy enough for women to miss taking a pill or make another mistake; men don't have the same personal incentive to prevent pregnancy because ultimately it isn't their body that gets pregnant.

Yep, all the "opportunity costs" are on the woman.

591 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:40:11pm

I have no reason to post this, but I feel compelled to. Did someone say "mattress" to Mr. Lambert?

592 allegro  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:40:11pm

re: #583 Jeff In Ohio

I like sex. I fail to see how abstinence would address that.

I do believe that is the entire point. It is not, nor has it ever been, about pregnancy and babies for the RR. It's about sex and control of women.

593 avanti  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:40:13pm

re: #177 WindUpBird

Why plot flounces, is what I can't get. They're immediately reported, and I've only ever seen one, ONE! in the wild, a split second before it was deleted.

it'd be like spending a bunch of energy "plotting" to shoot a spitball.

Because they make a screen cap of the flounce, and post it over there, and much glee is had by all.

594 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:40:15pm

re: #581 Floral Giraffe

lmao. updinged. well done.

595 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:40:18pm

re: #510 iceweasel
re: #584 Gus 802


I still see this abortion thing as mothers triage. The law gives her the right to terminate that human life with certain limits. I can not bring myself to conclude that is anything but a human being in there. Arguing about the "start of human life" seems a rationalization to me. Emergency responders have the same right as a necessity in an emergency with the terribly wounded. Self defense can include lethal outcomes. Women have this right for the unborn. Our society decided so. Okay. I'm fine with that. Dealing with the literal humanity of the decisions explains the stress resulting among first responders at a disaster that requires triage and anyone who takes a life. No less so for the woman involved.

My comfort level with abortion happens to be directly proportionate to the necessity of the abortion. A woman whose health is at significantly greater than normal risk, a rape or incest victim has my unequivocal support. At the other end of the scale a woman having an abortion to help her career makes me want to weep for the lost life. How I would like my tax money used goes right with this comfort level.

Lets not lie to ourselves. Calm understanding of two facts-It's a human being in there and yes, a woman has the right.

596 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:41:21pm

re: #584 Gus 802

Abortion is legal. The SCOTUS decision in Roe v. Wade made it as such. It is a difficult decision for those involved most particularly the woman. Abortion must remain legal and Roe v. Wade should never be reversed.

From your fingers to the judiciaries ears!

597 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:41:39pm

Not a single right wing blog is covering the story that the John Birch Society is a cosponsor of CPAC.

598 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:42:54pm

re: #597 Charles

The one possible sponsor worse for PR than Exxon. Figures.

599 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:43:37pm

re: #587 iceweasel

Abstinence addresses sex:

Dear Sex,
Just say no.
Love (but no kisses)
Abstinence.

Gosh, not even a kiss? Is a kiss like a gateway to fucking? Like pot is to meth? And the set up gets no dings? Life is cruel.

I'm glad I'm married and don't have to think about getting laid all the time.

Not.

600 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:43:48pm

re: #598 Rightwingconspirator

Face it, they're out and they're proud.

601 jaunte  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:44:15pm

re: #597 Charles

They've been pretty quiet about all the new-found nostalgia for the Confederacy, too.

602 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:44:18pm

re: #583 Jeff In Ohio

I like sex. I fail to see how abstinence would address that.

Religion has been known to 'help' with that - for some anyway...;-)

603 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:44:29pm

re: #597 Charles

Guessing here-Sounds like a possible Absence of Outrage topic.

604 Jack Burton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:45:11pm

Abstinence is as much birth control as not owning a car is practicing safe driving.

I really hope I don't need to parse or explain this.

605 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:45:11pm

re: #597 Charles

Not a single right wing blog is covering the story that the John Birch Society is a cosponsor of CPAC.

Over at Ron Paul forums-dot-com they're covering it. They could not be happier.

606 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:45:52pm

re: #595 Rightwingconspirator

re: #584 Gus 802

I still see this abortion thing as mothers triage. The law gives her the right to terminate that human life with certain limits. I can not bring myself to conclude that is anything but a human being in there. Arguing about the "start of human life" seems a rationalization to me. Emergency responders have the same right as a necessity in an emergency with the terribly wounded. Self defense can include lethal outcomes. Women have this right for the unborn. Our society decided so. Okay. I'm fine with that. Dealing with the literal humanity of the decisions explains the stress resulting among first responders at a disaster that requires triage and anyone who takes a life. No less so for the woman involved.

My comfort level with abortion happens to be directly proportionate to the necessity of the abortion. A woman whose health is at significantly greater than normal risk, a rape or incest victim has my unequivocal support. At the other end of the scale a woman having an abortion to help her career makes me want to weep for the lost life. How I would like my tax money used goes right with this comfort level.

Lets not lie to ourselves. Calm understanding of two facts-It's a human being in there and yes, a woman has the right.

The idea of "opting in" or "opting out" of how tax monies are spent is a frequent argument when presented with moral decisions. As such, there is no opting out for how defense monies are spent with regard to land mines or other armaments. The same could be applied to capital punishment and so on. People do make these arguments. The idea of trying to micromanage how that money is spend presents a wide array of ethical questions and quandaries.

607 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:46:09pm

re: #595 Rightwingconspirator

re: #584 Gus 802
Lets not lie to ourselves. Calm understanding of two facts-It's a human being in there and yes, a woman has the right.

There is no 'fact' over whether and when a fetus becomes a person. But there IS a fact about the woman carrying that fetus-- she IS a person.

Consequently, she has soveriegn right over her bodily autonomy, just as men do over their own.

608 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:46:29pm

re: #580 theheat

Getting pregnant without sex would really suck. At least, for most people.

Sidebar: This story is false

609 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:46:48pm

re: #595 Rightwingconspirator

re: #584 Gus 802

I still see this abortion thing as mothers triage. The law gives her the right to terminate that human life with certain limits. I can not bring myself to conclude that is anything but a human being in there. Arguing about the "start of human life" seems a rationalization to me. Emergency responders have the same right as a necessity in an emergency with the terribly wounded. Self defense can include lethal outcomes. Women have this right for the unborn. Our society decided so. Okay. I'm fine with that. Dealing with the literal humanity of the decisions explains the stress resulting among first responders at a disaster that requires triage and anyone who takes a life. No less so for the woman involved.

My comfort level with abortion happens to be directly proportionate to the necessity of the abortion. A woman whose health is at significantly greater than normal risk, a rape or incest victim has my unequivocal support. At the other end of the scale a woman having an abortion to help her career makes me want to weep for the lost life. How I would like my tax money used goes right with this comfort level.

Lets not lie to ourselves. Calm understanding of two facts-It's a human being in there and yes, a woman has the right.

And why do you think it's your business to render judgment over the decisions a woman makes about her own body?

610 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:47:08pm

re: #602 Jimmah

Religion has been known to 'help' with that - for some anyway...;-)

Help with sex? I was raised a Methodist. :)

Sex is good. Sex is divine. Abstinence is, um, not for me. I drive!

611 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:47:29pm

re: #588 Kruk

I'm not really talking about end-of-life or pregnancy, just the limits on personal autonomy. If we think about it, perhaps with the help of some of the lawyers here, we would come up with a reasonable list of limits on our bodily autonomy.

612 Jack Burton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:47:36pm

re: #601 jaunte

They've been pretty quiet about all the new-found nostalgia for the Confederacy, too.

Because then they might get called on the fact that they posted articles in the past on Ron Paul bad mouthing Lincoln and the Civil War and at the time they were infuriated. (As they should have been, and still should be.)

613 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:47:53pm

Well I'm be a monkeys uncle..Somebody said upthread that the line, play again Sam was a myth.. That's right! She said, Play it once Sam....
Good night dear lizards.. I'm bushed...
Be well

614 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:47:58pm

re: #607 iceweasel

There is no 'fact' over whether and when a fetus becomes a person. But there IS a fact about the woman carrying that fetus-- she IS a person.

Consequently, she has soveriegn right over her bodily autonomy, just as men do over their own.

Quoted, to emphasize my agreement.

615 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:48:40pm

re: #613 HoosierHoops

HAH!
You watched the moovie!
HAH!
{{HH}}

616 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:49:16pm

re: #613 HoosierHoops

Well I'm be a monkeys uncle..Somebody said upthread that the line, play again Sam was a myth.. That's right! She said, Play it once Sam...
Good night dear lizards.. I'm bushed...
Be well

Night Hoops! (that's one of my fave movies as well.)

617 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:49:52pm

OK, time to haul fetch some wood, pack the stove and go to bed.

618 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:49:54pm

BTW,
KOBE ROCKS!
107, 106. in overtime.
He's worth what he gets paid.....

619 soap_man  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:49:58pm

re: #582 iceweasel

Well, one reason for the failure to develop more forms of birth control for men is that women doubt they can trust men to use them. It's easy enough for women to miss taking a pill or make another mistake; men don't have the same personal incentive to prevent pregnancy because ultimately it isn't their body that gets pregnant.

Whoa there. I have plenty of incentive not to get my girlfriend pregnant. I'm terrified that I "slip one past the goalie" to quote Seinfeld. In fact, I'm more obsessive about BC than she is.

Maybe jackass men don't care about knocking a girl up because they will just take off. But please don't lump us all in that category.

620 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:50:09pm

re: #595 Rightwingconspirator

re: #584 Gus 802


I still see this abortion thing as mothers triage. The law gives her the right to terminate that human life with certain limits. I can not bring myself to conclude that is anything but a human being in there. Arguing about the "start of human life" seems a rationalization to me. Emergency responders have the same right as a necessity in an emergency with the terribly wounded. Self defense can include lethal outcomes. Women have this right for the unborn. Our society decided so. Okay. I'm fine with that. Dealing with the literal humanity of the decisions explains the stress resulting among first responders at a disaster that requires triage and anyone who takes a life. No less so for the woman involved.

My comfort level with abortion happens to be directly proportionate to the necessity of the abortion. A woman whose health is at significantly greater than normal risk, a rape or incest victim has my unequivocal support. At the other end of the scale a woman having an abortion to help her career makes me want to weep for the lost life. How I would like my tax money used goes right with this comfort level.

Lets not lie to ourselves. Calm understanding of two facts-It's a human being in there and yes, a woman has the right.

You know I admire you but, I will down-ding this post, rwcp.

621 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:50:43pm

re: #606 Gus 802
Good point, but ethically thinking this through-I have the obligation to influence as I can the outcome of the legislative debate as available. Calling my Senators staff and registering my support or opposition is the ethical answer. If I have money ditto in campaign donations. If I get that expensive sit down with the Senator at a funding dinner, I'll make my points. The military budget is a done deal. This bill is not. Ethically and practically intact I think. (hope)

622 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:50:51pm

OT, this started as an anti-Malkin thread but yet the top banner offers her book for free... the internet is sooo strange.

623 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:51:16pm

re: #595 Rightwingconspirator

"At the other end of the scale a woman having an abortion to help her career..."

I think this is an absolutely unfair and inflammatory thing to say. It's what people have been coerced to think - women who have abortions are just selfish, neer do well losers. Sorry, that is not the case, and actually it's none of anyone's business, there is not an approval form to fill out yet.

624 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:51:50pm

At the "Grace-Centered Christian Forums," they're responding to my post about "Why I Parted Ways with the Right" by saying I must be a homosexual: Conservative blogger Charles Johnson parts ways with the right.

625 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:52:07pm

A debate about abortion on 12/16....

626 Jack Burton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:52:07pm

re: #622 brookly red

OT, this started as an anti-Malkin thread but yet the top banner offers her book for free... the internet is sooo strange.

Most threads discussing exactly how intelligent and articulate Sarah Palin is (/) have ads selling her book or asking for money for SarahPAC.

627 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:52:15pm

re: #595 Rightwingconspirator

We're lucky that there are so mercifully few issues like abortion in public life, where our ideals of liberty and morality are in such direct conflict.

628 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:52:44pm

re: #624 Charles

At the "Grace-Centered Christian Forums," they're responding to my post about "Why I Parted Ways with the Right" by saying I must be a homosexual: Conservative blogger Charles Johnson parts ways with the right.

Well, you ride a bike, so that's the logical conclusion.

////

629 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:53:19pm

re: #604 ArchangelMichael

Abstinence is as much birth control as not owning a car is practicing safe driving.

I really hope I don't need to parse or explain this.

Hey, that would make a good cafepress t-shirt. You'll be rich!

630 enigma3535  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:53:37pm

I first read about this story yesterday morning [in an on-line Taunton Gazette article] ... at the time, I thought the actions by the teacher and the school's administration seemed rather insensitive [which appeared to be exacerbated by a mention that the student is developmentally challenged]. Also, it would appear that before this story got some legs nationally, the family of the child had requested that their anonymity be honored [in the interests of their child].

I live in a Boston suburb: while watching TV during dinner last night, this story was breaking news on one of the local news stations ... the father was interviewed [and identified] and appeared to say many of the things a suing plaintiff, carefully coached by an attorney, might say.

Whatever ... at this point, I am going to wait for the dust to settle before being definitive in an opinion on this situation.

631 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:53:42pm

re: #618 Floral Giraffe

BTW,
KOBE ROCKS!
107, 106. in overtime.
He's worth what he gets paid...

Damn. I turned it off - I thot they were going to lose.

632 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:54:08pm

re: #626 ArchangelMichael

Most threads discussing exactly how intelligent and articulate Sarah Palin is (/) have ads selling her book or asking for money for SarahPAC.

But what is it, exactly, that summons the throbbing red Ohio?

633 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:54:28pm

re: #622 brookly red

OT, this started as an anti-Malkin thread but yet the top banner offers her book for free... the internet is sooo strange.

Ever wonder why so many right wing books make the best sellers list? Right wing front groups buy all the books and then give them away. You can walk into a bookstore and pay $40 for Palin's new book or just pick up a free one.

634 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:54:43pm

re: #622 brookly red

OT, this started as an anti-Malkin thread but yet the top banner offers her book for free... the internet is sooo strange.

If you click on the link CHarles gets a penny or two.
If you don't he still gets Google Ad Dollars.
Isn't he clever to get ad money from those he's dissing?
I think so!

635 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:55:06pm

re: #626 ArchangelMichael

Most threads discussing exactly how intelligent and articulate Sarah Palin is (/) have ads selling her book or asking for money for SarahPAC.

I know, I work in advertising and the current topic is does old fashion direct marketing work better then this new fangled stuff... seems that it does.

636 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:55:08pm

re: #611 Decatur Deb

I'm not really talking about end-of-life or pregnancy, just the limits on personal autonomy. If we think about it, perhaps with the help of some of the lawyers here, we would come up with a reasonable list of limits on our bodily autonomy.

Well, one's personal autonomy is changed when we marry, so marriage is a completely special case. It changes in small ways and large, and although I'm an atheist I always thought one of the loveliest parts of the episcopalian (i think) service is "with my body I thee worship". We give over our lives when we marry, and part of that traditionally is giving over our body, in small ways and large, from giving up smoking, to selling the motorcycle, to giving up sex with other people.

(This is also the emotional pull for gay marriage, btw, as opposed to mere civil union.)

637 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:55:43pm

re: #632 The Sanity Inspector

But what is it, exactly, that summons the throbbing red Ohio?

A passionate argument about the Taft presidency.

638 jaunte  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:55:50pm

re: #624 Charles

These people have some serious sex issues.

639 Jack Burton  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:55:52pm

re: #632 The Sanity Inspector

But what is it, exactly, that summons the throbbing red Ohio?

Talking about the GOPs kookocalypse?

640 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:55:59pm

re: #611 Decatur Deb

I'm not really talking about end-of-life or pregnancy, just the limits on personal autonomy. If we think about it, perhaps with the help of some of the lawyers here, we would come up with a reasonable list of limits on our bodily autonomy.

Of course there are limits on bodily autonomy, just as there are limits on freedom of speech (yelling "Fire!"in a crowded theatre, for instance.) However, there are very few if any instances that I know of that a person who who is mentally legally competent to make decisions loses the right to make decisions about their own body. I shudder at the thought that any other person could assert a "moral right" to chose what happens to my body and organs against my will.

641 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:56:34pm

re: #621 Rightwingconspirator

Good point, but ethically thinking this through-I have the obligation to influence as I can the outcome of the legislative debate as available. Calling my Senators staff and registering my support or opposition is the ethical answer. If I have money ditto in campaign donations. If I get that expensive sit down with the Senator at a funding dinner, I'll make my points. The military budget is a done deal. This bill is not. Ethically and practically intact I think. (hope)

I wasn't speaking about the health care bill. This would only apply with a public option or government run program. It would however present a dilemma with the Equal Protection Clause.

642 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:56:45pm

re: #633 Killgore Trout

Ever wonder why so many right wing books make the best sellers list? Right wing front groups buy all the books and then give them away. You can walk into a bookstore and pay $40 for Palin's new book or just pick up a free one.

yeah, the & left would never do that... come on KT.

643 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:57:05pm

re: #624 Charles

At the "Grace-Centered Christian Forums," they're responding to my post about "Why I Parted Ways with the Right" by saying I must be a homosexual: Conservative blogger Charles Johnson parts ways with the right.

Can't read that drivel, sorry, you have spoiled me with your format!

BTW, they have the same loose your fat lady in a bikini, that LGF does!

644 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:57:10pm

re: #630 enigma3535

[...]Whatever ... at this point, I am going to wait for the dust to settle before being definitive in an opinion on this situation.

Always a wise decision. Galileo's advice is best, 'to pronounce that wise, ingenious and modest sentence, "I know it not"'

645 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:58:20pm

re: #624 Charles

Making you all the more irresistible to us and them.

It must be odd scary as shit freaky ultimately satisfying knowing so many people are preoccupied with every facet of your being, and all the supernatural powers they attribute to you.

646 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:58:49pm

re: #636 iceweasel

(snip)

(This is also the emotional pull for gay marriage, btw, as opposed to mere civil union.)

LGF actually brought me around on the union/marriage shtick, though it had help from the kids.

647 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:58:54pm

re: #619 soap_man

Whoa there. I have plenty of incentive not to get my girlfriend pregnant. I'm terrified that I "slip one past the goalie" to quote Seinfeld. In fact, I'm more obsessive about BC than she is.

Maybe jackass men don't care about knocking a girl up because they will just take off. But please don't lump us all in that category.

Oh yeah-- I'm not talking about you or anyone in particular, but in the abstract. If it's easy for women to make birth control errors when biologically speaking they are the ones with the most at risk, it's at least as easy for men to make mistakes too. Consequently even if we have a birth control pill for men, you can bet that most women won't swear off their own methods of birth control. (this provides a further disincentive for people to develop more forms of male birth control as well). That's all I mean.

648 jaunte  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 7:59:17pm

re: #633 Killgore Trout

Ever wonder why so many right wing books make the best sellers list? Right wing front groups buy all the books and then give them away. You can walk into a bookstore and pay $40 for Palin's new book or just pick up a free one.

But there's a catch:

Still, if you can't trust Newsmax, what can you believe? The late Ronald Kessler works there, and he broke the Reverend Wright story and got every single fact wrong except the words "Chicago" and "church." So I clicked.

And yes, you really can get Sarah Palin's new book, and just pay shipping!

Except it's an old book, it's not by Sarah Palin, you'll pay three times the cost of shipping, and you'll have to subscribe to Newsmax magazine.[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

649 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:00:10pm

re: #640 Kruk

Of course there are limits on bodily autonomy, just as there are limits on freedom of speech (yelling "Fire!"in a crowded theatre, for instance.) However, there are very few if any instances that I know of that a person who who is mentally legally competent to make decisions loses the right to make decisions about their own body. I shudder at the thought that any other person could assert a "moral right" to chose what happens to my body and organs against my will.

Are you registered with Selective Service?

650 soap_man  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:02:51pm

re: #647 iceweasel

Oh yeah-- I'm not talking about you or anyone in particular, but in the abstract. If it's easy for women to make birth control errors when biologically speaking they are the ones with the most at risk, it's at least as easy for men to make mistakes too. Consequently even if we have a birth control pill for men, you can bet that most women won't swear off their own methods of birth control. (this provides a further disincentive for people to develop more forms of male birth control as well). That's all I mean.

Fair enough. I would love to see a pill for men. Actually, my gf doesn't take the pill because she doesn't like how it makes her feel. I take care of the birth control, and she trusts me to do so. I would like for her to take the pill in addition to my contraceptive of choice (to be EXTRA safe), but I respect her decision.

651 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:03:37pm

re: #634 Floral Giraffe

Isn't he clever to get ad money from those he's dissing?
I think so!

well to tell the truth I don't like it when congress does it...

652 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:04:03pm

re: #624 Charles

At the "Grace-Centered Christian Forums," they're responding to my post about "Why I Parted Ways with the Right" by saying I must be a homosexual: Conservative blogger Charles Johnson parts ways with the right.

Looks like this is the guy that made the first comment.

Changing the world from a cornfield! A Christ follower, Husband, Dad, Friend, Pastor, Connoisseur, Bon vivant, and Good ol' boy.

653 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:04:04pm

re: #624 Charles

At the "Grace-Centered Christian Forums," they're responding to my post about "Why I Parted Ways with the Right" by saying I must be a homosexual: Conservative blogger Charles Johnson parts ways with the right.

One guy is saying that. Another guy, self-identifying as a former reader and former conservative, is wondering if it's time to come back for another look-see.

654 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:04:10pm

re: #609 Charles

And why do you think it's your business to render judgment over the decisions a woman makes about her own body?


Only in the context of a personal opinion shared here.
I made my support for a womans procreative rights clear I hope.
The fact I have left in my heart is the proportion I mentioned. It is simply the actual conclusion I have come to with a great deal of thought about it.

655 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:05:44pm

re: #610 Jeff In Ohio

Help with sex? I was raised a Methodist. :)

Sex is good. Sex is divine. Abstinence is, um, not for me. I drive!

Ah - you methodists are evidently spared the memo about the unfathomable awfulness and sordidness of any activity involving the unmentionables. As a catholic atheist I can say that probably most of our teachers, priests etc did get that memo and were eager to pass on it's contents.

656 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:06:10pm

re: #642 brookly red

I'm sure they do it too but not nearly to the same extent. Don't get me wrong. I think it's a smart marketing technique.

657 enigma3535  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:06:16pm

re: #649 Decatur Deb

This one, who did register [and now can't serve anymore even if this one wanted to ... regardless of my relative level of physical fitness], takes a deep bow to the logic of your repartee.

658 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:06:58pm

re: #648 jaunte

Heh.

659 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:07:19pm

re: #655 Jimmah

Ah - you methodists are evidently spared the memo about the unfathomable awfulness and sordidness of any activity involving the unmentionables. As a catholic atheist I can say that probably most of our teachers, priests etc did get that memo and were eager to pass on it's contents.

And you know it only added a sense of drama, risk, and rebelliousness to the mix.

660 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:08:08pm

re: #620 MandyManners
That's cool, and thanks for the note. Sometimes one can just sit back and not chance downdings. That can be cowardly. But darn it two today from people here I admire-You and Sharmuta earlier. Downdings come with honest debate sometimes. I hope I have not annoyed our kind host.

661 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:08:25pm
662 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:08:33pm

Not gonna make it to the open thread, so here's this, apologies if it's already been parsed:


Iranian men in hijab
With the arrest of activist Majid Tavakoli, a strange phenomenon has swept the internet – photos of men dressed in hijab

In brief, a democracy activist arrested in Iran was dressed in women's clothes to humiliate him. His supporters photographed themselves in hijab, to show their support. Good for them, and may their tribe increase.

663 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:08:42pm

re: #656 Killgore Trout

I'm sure they do it too but not nearly to the same extent. Don't get me wrong. I think it's a smart marketing technique.

oh no not nearly... you are so busted.

664 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:09:05pm

re: #649 Decatur Deb

Are you registered with Selective Service?

I had a quick look at Wikipedia, and I assume this is the Selective Service you mean: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] (I'm not American)

Being drafted to serve in a war would be unpleasant I didn't want to fight in would be unpleasant, but I would still have autonomy in that case. I could decide not to serve, knowing that the consequences would be imprisonment and disgrace. The essence of the matter is that I still have a choice, albeit from a limited selection.

665 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:10:01pm

re: #611 Decatur Deb

I'm not really talking about end-of-life or pregnancy, just the limits on personal autonomy. If we think about it, perhaps with the help of some of the lawyers here, we would come up with a reasonable list of limits on our bodily autonomy.

It's a better job for philosophers than lawyers. I say that because that's what my degree is in and I could (and have) gone on about the subject for hours.

666 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:10:13pm
667 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:11:13pm

re: #666 Slumbering Behemoth

Christmas With The Devil

on post 666 no less...

668 enigma3535  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:11:56pm

re: #667 brookly red

Just a number that does not actually mean anything ...

669 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:12:24pm

re: #659 Decatur Deb

And you know it only added a sense of drama, risk, and rebelliousness to the mix.

Yep...for most in our generation at any rate it just made it more attractive in those ways.

670 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:12:59pm

re: #668 enigma3535

Just a number that does not actually mean anything ...

kinda like 3535?

671 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:13:00pm

re: #642 brookly red

yeah, the & left would never do that... come on KT.

Actually, KT is right on this. The right has been doing it for at least 20 years-- think tanks and other organisations make bulk buys of 'conservative' books (coulter, rush, beck) in order to push the book onto the bestseller lists. I used to work in the publishing industry, which is how I know, but you don't have to take my word for it-- look at a paper copy of the NYT bestseller list. You'll see a little symbol next to some titles in the hardcover non-fiction section, and down in the fine print you'll see that it denotes bulk purchases.

Right wing organisations, at least since the early 90's, would do a mass buy of conservative titles at the bookshops the NYT draws its list from. The NYT eventually had to introduce this practice of denoting bulk purchases as a result.
This is why you'll always find all these websites running ads saying you can get the newest conservative "bestseller" for free.
(It is also why Harper moved up the pub date on Going Rogue and is doing a single huge printrun --over 2 million now, i think. They need to recoup all their money in the first run because there won't be other printings.)

672 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:13:02pm

I'm thinking of retiring the Anti-idiotarian award this year, because I just don't see very many people who qualify any more.

I may start a new annual award: The Craziest Person of the Year.

I don't think we'll run out of candidates for that one.

673 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:13:37pm

re: #666 Slumbering Behemoth

Devil Got My Woman

674 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:13:45pm

re: #672 Charles

I'm thinking of retiring the Anti-idiotarian award this year, because I just don't see very many people who qualify any more.

I may start a new annual award: The Craziest Person of the Year.

I don't think we'll run out of candidates for that one.

That could be a weekly event.

OK, probably daily.

675 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:14:18pm

re: #607 iceweasel
Ice, on her rights I totally agree with you. Even as a person who happens to believe it is a human being from the start. Person-hood is another debate.

676 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:14:45pm

re: #671 iceweasel

Actually, KT is right on this. The right has been doing it for at least 20 years-- think tanks and other organisations make bulk buys of 'conservative' books (coulter, rush, beck) in order to push the book onto the bestseller lists. I used to work in the publishing industry, which is how I know, but you don't have to take my word for it-- look at a paper copy of the NYT bestseller list. You'll see a little symbol next to some titles in the hardcover non-fiction section, and down in the fine print you'll see that it denotes bulk purchases.

Right wing organisations, at least since the early 90's, would do a mass buy of conservative titles at the bookshops the NYT draws its list from. The NYT eventually had to introduce this practice of denoting bulk purchases as a result.
This is why you'll always find all these websites running ads saying you can get the newest conservative "bestseller" for free.
(It is also why Harper moved up the pub date on Going Rogue and is doing a single huge printrun --over 2 million now, i think. They need to recoup all their money in the first run because there won't be other printings.)

tell that to Mark Levin

677 jaunte  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:14:59pm

re: #671 iceweasel


...Harper moved up the pub date on Going Rogue and is doing a single huge printrun --over 2 million now, i think.


I'm thinking of putting in some more cellulose insulation in the attic this winter.

678 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:15:52pm

re: #607 iceweasel
Oh and Men really need the pill. Not The Blue One!
Men need the ability to stop the possibility of pregnancy of their lover. Someday.

679 enigma3535  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:16:23pm

re: #670 brookly red

To me? Maybe ... When I created this handle in July 2001, I was 35 years old ... I wanted a yahoo email account and all the "enigma" handles were taken ... given the choices ... I chose one that resonated with me both with my age and this song ... "in the year 2525, if man is still alive ... " ... and there it is ...

680 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:16:51pm

re: #650 soap_man

Fair enough. I would love to see a pill for men. Actually, my gf doesn't take the pill because she doesn't like how it makes her feel. I take care of the birth control, and she trusts me to do so. I would like for her to take the pill in addition to my contraceptive of choice (to be EXTRA safe), but I respect her decision.

Yes, a lot of women have problems on the pill. And some women really dislike the idea of artifically controlling their hormone levels every day for their entire reproductive life.
I'd like to see more forms of birth control for men too, but suspect we won't any time soon. There is a pill that's been developed for men but I don't expect the US to be on it anytime soon.

681 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:16:51pm

re: #667 brookly red

By design, of course. Whether or not it is by intelligent design is debatable.

682 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:17:53pm

re: #664 Kruk

In your sense, then, everyone has as much autonomy as they are willing to suffer for. (Except sane condemned prisoners, who have even less.) Government is really just all your friends and neighbors telling you that you are not as autonomous as you might think.

683 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:18:09pm

re: #674 Gus 802

That could be a weekly event.

OK, probably daily.

But, THINK of the opportunity to review all of them for a YEAR!
LOL!
My head might explode!

684 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:18:54pm

re: #665 Conservative Moonbat

It's a better job for philosophers than lawyers. I say that because that's what my degree is in and I could (and have) gone on about the subject for hours.

Philosophy or Law? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

685 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:19:04pm

re: #672 Charles

I nominate Arthur Brown.

686 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:19:09pm

re: #679 enigma3535

Cool story. Thanks!

687 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:19:31pm

re: #683 Floral Giraffe

But, THINK of the opportunity to review all of them for a YEAR!
LOL!
My head might explode!

I'm still recuperating from 5 minutes ago!

688 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:20:11pm

re: #679 enigma3535

To me? Maybe ... When I created this handle in July 2001, I was 35 years old ... I wanted a yahoo email account and all the "enigma" handles were taken ... given the choices ... I chose one that resonated with me both with my age and this song ... "in the year 2525, if man is still alive ... " ... and there it is ...

well I guess that number means something then

689 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:21:24pm

Oh here we go--

Male birth control pill soon a reality
Implants, patches and creams also on the way

For the first time, a safe, effective and reversible hormonal male contraceptive appears to be within reach. Several formulations are expected to become commercially available within the near future. Men may soon have the options of a daily pill to be taken orally, a patch or gel to be applied to the skin, an injection given every three months or an implant placed under the skin every 12 months, according to Seattle researchers.

It largely depends on how funding continues. The technology is there. We know how it would work,” says Dr. Andrea Coviello, who is helping to test several male contraceptives at the Population Center for Research in Reproduction at the University of Washington in Seattle.

690 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:21:32pm

re: #687 Gus 802

691 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:22:15pm

re: #685 Mad Al-Jaffee

I nominate Arthur Brown.

Could have categories. You know like...

Craziest TV Host - Glenn Beck
Craziest Blogger - RS McCain
Craziest Blogger for Sexual Performance - Dan Riehl

692 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:22:20pm

Charles, have you seen this? I think it's very well put-together, and i can't see any logical flaws in it. I've used it to reason with a few of my religious-but-sensible friends.

Are Pro-Life Positions Consistent?

693 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:22:40pm

re: #641 Gus 802
Not sure I understand your point. I can not withold my taxes over a disagreement with the law. Trying to not pay them over that sort of thing is just birther silly. If that is what you mean?

694 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:23:18pm

re: #587 iceweasel

Abstinence addresses sex:

Dear Sex,
Just say no.
Love (but no kisses)
Abstinence.


Dear Abstinence,
I am the agent of the Survival Instinct,
which is the single strongest influence among all life forms.
I've been at this for about 1.2 million years. I know what I'm doing.
In the battle between you and me,
bet on me.
Your pal,
Sexual Reproduction.

695 theheat  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:23:31pm

re: #689 iceweasel

And if it was blue and they claimed it "enhanced performance", they couldn't keep it on the shelves...

696 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:23:34pm

re: #682 Decatur Deb

In your sense, then, everyone has as much autonomy as they are willing to suffer for. (Except sane condemned prisoners, who have even less.) Government is really just all your friends and neighbors telling you that you are not as autonomous as you might think.

I think of the authority of Goverment as being the autonomy that we willingly surrender, within well defined limits. The goverment only governs by our consent in a free society. Again, that's autonomy we've *decided* to give up, because we accept that a society needs certain rules if it's to function.

697 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:23:36pm

re: #689 iceweasel

“It largely depends on how funding continues. The technology is there. We know how it would work,” says Dr. Andrea Coviello, who is helping to test several male contraceptives at the Population Center for Research in Reproduction at the University of Washington in Seattle.

Oddly, all of the male researchers were unavailable for comment.

698 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:24:02pm

re: #693 Rightwingconspirator

Not sure I understand your point. I can not withold my taxes over a disagreement with the law. Trying to not pay them over that sort of thing is just birther silly. If that is what you mean?

I thought you already responded on that regarding meeting with a senator etc.

699 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:24:11pm

re: #672 Charles

I'm thinking of retiring the Anti-idiotarian award this year, because I just don't see very many people who qualify any more.

I may start a new annual award: The Craziest Person of the Year.

I don't think we'll run out of candidates for that one.

I think that's an excellent idea. Crazy is an ever-renewing source.

700 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:24:21pm

As penance for my evil link to Spinal Tap's satanic xmas song, I offer Carol of the Bells.

701 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:25:13pm

re: #695 theheat

And if it was blue and they claimed it "enhanced performance", they couldn't keep it on the shelves...

And it would be covered in all insurance plans, no questions asked, you betcha! Also.

702 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:25:26pm

re: #699 iceweasel

Iceweasel, I think you'd like the thingy I linked above, too. It's a good discussion tool.

703 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:26:12pm

re: #690 Floral Giraffe

With Buddy Hackett!

Hey, he was looking at what I was looking at.

704 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:27:03pm

re: #696 Kruk

Yes. Some of the "auto" goes away to become the 'demos".

705 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:27:06pm

re: #702 Obdicut

Iceweasel, I think you'd like the thingy I linked above, too. It's a good discussion tool.

Already opened it and planned to read. :) I'm watchin' you!

706 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:27:42pm

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

707 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:28:12pm

re: #703 Gus 802

With Buddy Hackett!

Hey, he was looking at what I was looking at.


In bed.

708 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:28:15pm

re: #691 Gus 802

Could have categories. You know like...

Craziest TV Host - Glenn Beck
Craziest Blogger - RS McCain
Craziest Blogger for Sexual Performance - Dan Riehl

Hey, we need a catchier name than 'craziest person of the year'. Hmmmmm....

709 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:28:30pm

re: #705 iceweasel

Already opened it and planned to read. :) I'm watchin' you!

And have I already recommended a book that is, unlike Malkin, chock full o'facts, and I consider the most intellectually stimulating book I've ever read? Dennett's Darwin's Dangerous Idea. It's heavy stuff, but if you've got holiday plane-flights upcoming, give it a whirl.

710 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:28:53pm

re: #701 iceweasel

And it would be covered in all insurance plans, no questions asked, you betcha! Also.

The claim that "enhancement" is covered is simply not true, just a talking point really. I work marketing pharma...

711 enigma3535  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:29:33pm

re: #688 brookly red

Actually, I think choosing to include "enigma" in this handle is more pertinent ... IMHO, anyone that posts anonymously, free of all constraints, to say anything we might feel [regardless of how wise or sociopathic], makes all of us Enigmas ... whatever handle we choose. Personally, I have tried to be more wise than sociopathic ... typically, succeeding [then again ... if one were a sociopath ... would one know?].

712 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:29:34pm

re: #708 iceweasel

Hey, we need a catchier name than 'craziest person of the year'. Hmmm...

Synonyms for crazy:

ape, barmy, bats in the belfry, batty, berserk, bonkers*, cracked, crazed, cuckoo, daft, delirious, demented, deranged, dingy*, dippy, erratic, flaky, flipped, flipped out, freaked out, fruity, idiotic, insane, kooky, lunatic, mad, mad as a March hare, mad as a hatter, maniacal, mental*, moonstruck, nuts, nutty, nutty as fruitcake, of unsound mind, out of one's mind, out of one's tree, out to lunch, potty, psycho, round the bend, schizo, screw loose, screwball, screwy, silly, touched*, unbalanced, unglued, unhinged, unzipped, wacky

713 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:30:37pm

re: #684 Decatur Deb

Philosophy or Law? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Phil. I might go to law school one of these days.

714 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:30:50pm

re: #712 Gus 802

I prefer just saying "He's a little..." and then making the wibbly-wobbly hand gesture, with appropriate Harpo Marx-esque facial expression.

715 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:31:01pm

re: #712 Gus 802

I would add kos and DU.

716 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:31:21pm

re: #712 Gus 802

Synonyms for crazy:

ape, barmy, bats in the belfry, batty, berserk, bonkers*, cracked, crazed, cuckoo, daft, delirious, demented, deranged, dingy*, dippy, erratic, flaky, flipped, flipped out, freaked out, fruity, idiotic, insane, kooky, lunatic, mad, mad as a March hare, mad as a hatter, maniacal, mental*, moonstruck, nuts, nutty, nutty as fruitcake, of unsound mind, out of one's mind, out of one's tree, out to lunch, potty, psycho, round the bend, schizo, screw loose, screwball, screwy, silly, touched*, unbalanced, unglued, unhinged, unzipped, wacky

How bout a simple "whack job" ?

717 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:31:25pm

re: #623 Stanley Sea

Is it unfair if what I described is the actual circumstance? I just tried to delineate my feelings on the delicate matter according to the actual circumstance. Assumptions and hostile judgments are just not what I refer to. I can only hope you understand the proportion I referred to. The whole abortion debate is inflammatory as it is so emotionally laden.

718 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:32:05pm

re: #627 The Sanity Inspector

It would have been easy to sit back and not jump in this one.

719 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:32:14pm

re: #694 negativ

Dear Abstinence,
I am the agent of the Survival Instinct,
which is the single strongest influence among all life forms.
I've been at this for about 1.2 million years. I know what I'm doing.
In the battle between you and me,
bet on me.
Your pal,
Sexual Reproduction.

Dear Sexual Reproduction,

You may think you are the agent of the Survival Instinct,
and you certainly get the most press out of any of us,
But I have been at this for far more than your measly 1.2 million years,
and I know what I'm doing far better than you do.
In the battle between you and me, you had better bet on me.
You doubt me? I refer you to The Spanish Flu and The Black Death.

Kind Regards,
Asexual Reproduction

720 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:33:04pm

re: #711 enigma3535

Actually, I think choosing to include "enigma" in this handle is more pertinent ... IMHO, anyone that posts anonymously, free of all constraints, to say anything we might feel [regardless of how wise or sociopathic], makes all of us Enigmas ... whatever handle we choose. Personally, I have tried to be more wise than sociopathic ... typically, succeeding [then again ... if one were a sociopath ... would one know?].

one might suspect...

721 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:33:11pm

re: #711 enigma3535

(snip) [then again ... if one were a sociopath ... would one know?].

Someone here would be kind enough to point it out.

722 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:33:35pm

re: #715 Mad Al-Jaffee

I would add kos and DU.

Could be non-partisan, yes.

723 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:33:39pm

re: #717 Rightwingconspirator

Is it unfair if what I described is the actual circumstance? I just tried to delineate my feelings on the delicate matter according to the actual circumstance. Assumptions and hostile judgments are just not what I refer to. I can only hope you understand the proportion I referred to. The whole abortion debate is inflammatory as it is so emotionally laden.

I do. Once I read that you were a philosopher-person I realized your post was more than the usual blather. I reacted quickly unfortunately.

724 Kruk  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:34:43pm

re: #719 Slumbering Behemoth

Dear Sexual Reproduction,

You may think you are the agent of the Survival Instinct,
and you certainly get the most press out of any of us,
But I have been at this for far more than your measly 1.2 million years,
and I know what I'm doing far better than you do.
In the battle between you and me, you had better bet on me.
You doubt me? I refer you to The Spanish Flu and The Black Death.

Kind Regards,
Asexual Reproduction

Dear Asexual Reproduction

How many people have been willing to risk their lives, careers, or reputations for a little mitosis on the side?

Yours, Sexual Reproduction

725 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:35:01pm

re: #716 Stanley Sea

How bout a simple "whack job" ?

Works for me, just as long as the award can be accompanied by a cartoon or parody suitable skewering the recipient.

726 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:36:01pm

re: #724 Kruk

Man, thanks so much for that. My fiancee's a biologist and she'll love that joke.

727 Racer X  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:36:31pm

re: #725 Dark_Falcon

Works for me, just as long as the award can be accompanied by a cartoon or parody suitable skewering the recipient.

How about naming it "The Nucking Fut" award?

728 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:36:42pm

Just got in. Too tired to play.

NOT A FLOUNCE!

In the mornin' y'all.

729 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:37:40pm

re: #708 iceweasel

Hey, we need a catchier name than 'craziest person of the year'. Hmmm...

How about 'mentalist of the year'?

730 enigma3535  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:37:53pm

Regarding the responses to post 711 ... "brookly red" & "Decatur Deb": touche', well said and good night : )

731 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:38:06pm

re: #713 Conservative Moonbat

Phil. I might go to law school one of these days.

Philosophy majors score higher on the LSAT than any other major, IIRC.

732 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:38:11pm

re: #713 Conservative Moonbat

Looks like another Phil. just came out of the grove upthread. (723)

733 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:39:29pm

re: #731 iceweasel

Philosophy majors score higher on the LSAT than any other major, IIRC.

/yeah but they always get the order wrong...

734 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:39:44pm

New birth control for men!

Pfizer® introduces Flaccidium®

735 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:40:10pm

re: #732 Decatur Deb

I did Information Theory and then dropped out. I'm a semi-demi-phil.

736 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:40:24pm

re: #734 Gus 802

New birth control for men!

Pfizer® introduces Pflaccidium®

Minor edit.

737 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:40:32pm

re: #727 Racer X

How about naming it "The Nucking Fut" award?

I'd prefer "Bad Craziness Big Kahuna" myself.

738 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:40:57pm

re: #736 iceweasel

Minor edit.

Pferfect®

739 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:41:06pm

re: #689 iceweasel
I am married to a woman with a genetic illness. If we had a daughter she would likely share JRA. We chose not to have kids. The pill was always bad for her. I would have so appreciated a pill I could take. Better than the knife!

re: #723 Stanley Sea
Thank you for the kind words. One is easily misunderstood on this tough topic. Look at the 20 minute time gap between the post I got from Charles and my reply.

Charles-Return after posting was really helpful tonight

740 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:41:15pm

re: #728 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just got in. Too tired to play.

NOT A FLOUNCE!

In the mornin' y'all.

Shhhhhhh.
THe FBVeggie is in the room!
LOL!

741 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:41:50pm

re: #672 Charles

I'm thinking of retiring the Anti-idiotarian award this year, because I just don't see very many people who qualify any more.

I may start a new annual award: The Craziest Person of the Year.

I don't think we'll run out of candidates for that one.

Glenn Beck broke Teh Crazy

742 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:42:21pm

re: #735 Obdicut

I did Information Theory and then dropped out. I'm a semi-demi-phil.

Is that an eighth nut?

743 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:43:00pm

re: #742 Decatur Deb

Is that an eighth nut?

I prefer to keep my sex life private.

744 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:43:04pm

re: #741 Alouette

Glenn Beck broke Teh Crazy

Mimimimimimimimi, Socialism! Mimi. Meet.

//

745 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:43:50pm

re: #737 Dark_Falcon

I'd prefer "Bad Craziness Big Kahuna" myself.

I love that!

Hmm, maybe the Full Metal Fruitcake? It's seasonal and festive, if not as good as Big Kahuna.

746 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:45:01pm

re: #706 MandyManners

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

And it is said to those who guard (against evil): What is it that your Lord has revealed? They say, Good. For those who do good in this world is good, and certainly the abode of the hereafter is better; and certainly most excellent is the abode of those who guard (against evil);

747 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:45:16pm

My kids made a fabulous birthday party for me! Dinner at an upscale fancy restaurant, and they presented me with a Family Calendar, featuring photos of all the families and newlyweds and grandkids, with everyone's birthdays and anniversaries.

Sorry, but it beats the LGF Calendar for me.

/But I'm pissed they didn't get me an iPhone

748 Stanghazi  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:45:25pm

re: #745 iceweasel

I love that!

Hmm, maybe the Full Metal Fruitcake? It's seasonal and festive, if not as good as Big Kahuna.

There's an outfit that goes with that description.

749 Political Atheist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:45:33pm

re: #734 Gus 802

Brilliant just brilliant.

750 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:45:41pm

re: #745 iceweasel

I like Full Mental Wingnut, but that is not all inclusive. Two categories, then:

Full Mental Wingnut
Full Mental Moonbat

751 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:46:25pm

re: #745 iceweasel

I love that!

Hmm, maybe the Full Metal Fruitcake? It's seasonal and festive, if not as good as Big Kahuna.

Big Kahuna Burger? Isn't that the new Hawaiin burger joint?

752 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:46:41pm

re: #671 iceweasel

Yeah, I used to dismiss it myself until I noticed all the free book offers. I imagine that a lot of them just get thrown away. Especially when you consider that Palin fans aren't really a reading type of crowd. Americans don't read much anyways. Ron Paul fans will read, progressives read but the booger eating Fox watchers aren't buying books.

753 Ziggy Standard  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:46:58pm

re: #745 iceweasel

I love that!

Hmm, maybe the Full Metal Fruitcake? It's seasonal and festive, if not as good as Big Kahuna.

Cadbury's Fruit and Nutcase - a wingnut in every bite!

754 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:47:31pm

re: #751 Mad Al-Jaffee

That's a tasty burger!

755 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:47:59pm

re: #750 Slumbering Behemoth

I like Full Mental Wingnut, but that is not all inclusive. Two categories, then:

Full Mental Wingnut
Full Mental Moonbat

fair & un-balanced?

756 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:48:25pm

I consider Bolton winning the last anti-idiotarian award a bit of an embarrassment. Maybe it's time to retire it.

757 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:48:46pm

re: #754 JasonA

That's a tasty burger!

Hamburgers! The cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast.

758 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:50:08pm

re: #750 Slumbering Behemoth

I like Full Mental Wingnut, but that is not all inclusive. Two categories, then:

Full Mental Wingnut
Full Mental Moonbat

I like that one! I'd support that one!

759 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:50:20pm

re: #746 Jimmah

And it is said to those who guard (against evil): What is it that your Lord has revealed? They say, Good. For those who do good in this world is good, and certainly the abode of the hereafter is better; and certainly most excellent is the abode of those who guard (against evil);

Reverend Lovejoy: Marge, just about everything’s a sin. [holds up a Bible] Y’ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we’re not supposed to go to the bathroom.

/I thought it was that part of the evening where we randomly quote stuff, so here's some Simpsons.

760 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:51:03pm

re: #756 Killgore Trout

I consider Bolton winning the last anti-idiotarian award a bit of an embarrassment. Maybe it's time to retire it.

Bolton is an anti-idiotarian. Why would you consider him an embarrassment?

761 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:51:14pm

re: #757 Mad Al-Jaffee

You know what they call a Quarter-Pounder with cheese in France?

762 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:52:25pm

re: #747 Alouette

Happy Birthday!

763 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:52:34pm

re: #750 Slumbering Behemoth

I like Full Mental Wingnut, but that is not all inclusive. Two categories, then:

Full Mental Wingnut
Full Mental Moonbat

That's why I suggested Full Metal Fruitcake: one award, nonpartisan, can be applied to Wingnuts and Moonbats as necessary.

Hmmm. What about the Full Mental Monty, to the person who has been the most blatantly mental?

764 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:53:12pm

re: #761 JasonA

You know what they call a Quarter-Pounder with cheese in France?

shawarma.

765 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:53:24pm

re: #761 JasonA

I don't know. I can haz fromage burger?

766 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:53:37pm

re: #755 brookly red

Who said I was fair? I want names.

767 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:54:22pm
768 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:55:03pm

re: #763 iceweasel

That's why I suggested Full Metal Fruitcake: one award, nonpartisan, can be applied to Wingnuts and Moonbats as necessary.

Hmmm. What about the Full Mental Monty, to the person who has been the most blatantly mental?

5150!

769 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:55:15pm

#745 iceweasel

I love that!

Hmm, maybe the Full Metal Fruitcake? It's seasonal and festive, if not as good as Big Kahuna.

I like it. The Full Metal Fruitcake Awards of 2009.

770 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:57:24pm

Missed Colbert--must have been having fun. 'Nite, All.

771 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:57:38pm
772 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:58:00pm

re: #760 Dark_Falcon

Bolton is an anti-idiotarian. Why would you consider him an embarrassment?

He wrote the forward to Crazy Pam's book and he appears on Beck's show frequently discussing the New World Order and Global government. The man's a loon.

773 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:58:42pm

Heh. Just found a great Simpsons quote back on thread topic:

Homer Simpson: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!

774 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:58:52pm

I used to work for Rabbi Michael "We Can All Work It Out" Lerner. Michael would have LOVED it if we could have gotten left-wing organizations to buy up huge quantities of his books and give them as freebies to the masses.

Sadly, it was not to be.

775 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:59:02pm

re: #772 Killgore Trout

Beck, Bolton & Monckton on One World Government

776 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:59:39pm

Birchersville: John Bolton helps Glenn Beck whip up 'one world government' paranoia
[Link: crooksandliars.com...]

777 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:01:31pm

re: #775 Killgore Trout

Beck, Bolton & Monckton on One World Government

Mimimimimimimimimi! One world government! Mimi. Meet.

778 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:02:52pm
779 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:03:24pm

re: #777 Gus 802

Mimimimimimimimimi! One world government! Mimi. Meet.

That is so never going to get old for me.
(loooved that site!)

780 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:03:43pm

Today was a very rough day for me. I'm on a student expulsion panel, and the whole thing is just sad, sad, sad. THen I had to run errands, and the Christmas music almost killed me.

I had a brilliant idea, though. I went into Petco and looked at mice. There was non-seasonal music playing, and the mice were cute. It was very relaxing.

BTW, there is a beautiful short video on Zooborns, of a Beluga whale giving birth. Awe-inspiring.

781 SteveC  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:04:00pm

One world government? Not ours, we're losing money. Can't afford to be opening no branch offices right now.

782 Gus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:04:28pm

re: #779 iceweasel

That is so never going to get old for me.
(loooved that site!)

Beaker! Yeah, every time I type that I "hear" Beaker in my head. ;)

783 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:05:14pm

re: #773 iceweasel

Heh. Just found a great Simpsons quote back on thread topic:

Homer Simpson: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!

"facts are useless in emergencies" : David Byrne.

784 recusancy  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:05:17pm

re: #780 SanFranciscoZionist

Today was a very rough day for me. I'm on a student expulsion panel, and the whole thing is just sad, sad, sad. THen I had to run errands, and the Christmas music almost killed me.

I had a brilliant idea, though. I went into Petco and looked at mice. There was non-seasonal music playing, and the mice were cute. It was very relaxing.

BTW, there is a beautiful short video on Zooborns, of a Beluga whale giving birth. Awe-inspiring.

Totally here you on the xmas music.

785 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:05:34pm

re: #781 SteveC

One world government? Not ours, we're losing money. Can't afford to be opening no branch offices right now.

Start small. North American Union.

786 Randall Gross  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:07:59pm

re: #771 citybilly

The Russians, like the Sauds, have a highly vested interest in keeping people using their oil and gas and keeping the cost high. Without Gas, they would have little influence at all in Europe.

787 Girth  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:08:59pm

re: #785 SanFranciscoZionist

Start small. North American Union.

First we'd need some sort of NAFTA Super Highway...

788 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:10:06pm

re: #771 citybilly

You were banned previously under the name 'loup-garou' for melting down over Robert Spencer. Now you're back spreading climate change denial propaganda.

Bye again!

789 SteveC  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:10:22pm

Good news for me - I'm getting a little bit heavy, which is not a good thing when you have Congestive Heart Failure. Switched completely to ) cal drinks - mostly sugar free kool aid, with the occasional diet soda - and I'm down a couple of pounds already!

790 brookly red  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:13:01pm

re: #783 brookly red

"facts are useless in emergencies" : David Byrne.

"Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to..."

and yes I cherry picked that :)

791 bratwurst  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:13:42pm

re: #789 SteveC

I go for about two fingers of fruit juice with carbonated water as my soft drink these days, like it better than any diet soda.

I am down 110lbs in 7 years, perhaps the ONLY thing I share in common with Mike Huckabee...though he appears to be putting some back on.

792 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:13:57pm

When I was a wee one, my mom bought this album one christmas. She regretted it that season, and every season thereafter until me and my brother outgrew it.

793 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:13:59pm

re: #763 iceweasel

That's why I suggested Full Metal Fruitcake: one award, nonpartisan, can be applied to Wingnuts and Moonbats as necessary.

Hmmm. What about the Full Mental Monty, to the person who has been the most blatantly mental?

I'd be tempted to go with "Full Mental Jackass", in order to convey 1) my opinion, free of ambiguity; 2) semi-homophonic tribute to Kubrik's film.

794 SteveC  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:15:18pm

re: #788 Charles

You were banned previously under the name 'loup-garou' for melting down over Robert Spencer.

Well you got admire someone who gets shot down and then jumps right back into the fight...

Now you're back spreading climate change denial propaganda.

Bye again!

Nope - just to stupid to know when to quit.

795 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:15:32pm

re #771 city billy

Gee, now why would Russia say that? Could it be that Russia's economy depends on the exports of the fossil fuels that contribute to AGW? Maybe! Snark aside, Russia is clearly running their own game regarding the stolen emails, and their claim that someone else ripped off their data reminds me of Star Trek's Pavel Chekov's misatributions of other's achievements to Russia.

(reposted in case Charles needs to delete my original post for quoting the banned) Now I'll go get the charcoal, there's still time to roast a troll tonight. We'll all have some Denier Dijon tonight!

796 SteveC  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:16:19pm

re: #791 bratwurst

I go for about two fingers of fruit juice with carbonated water as my soft drink these days, like it better than any diet soda.

I am down 110lbs in 7 years, perhaps the ONLY thing I share in common with Mike Huckabee...though he appears to be putting some back on.

*scribbles that down* might try that! What fruit juice is your favorite?

797 webevintage  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:17:34pm

I just wanted to thank whomever suggested reading Nate Silver and Ezra Klein (I normally give them a look once a week, but had not gotten around to them yet) as a balance to all the "ZOMG!!!111!!! worst bill evah!" freak out that is all over the progressive sites tonight.
Sometimes it just helps to know not everyone thinks the sky is falling....

798 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:18:45pm

re: #579 MandyManners

Celibacy is fool-proof.

Celibacy ≠ Abstinence = Chastity ... also total reliance on idealized virtue seems to rarely turn out to be "foolproof" when confronted by actual real world, flesh and blood fools.

799 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:20:04pm

re: #583 Jeff In Ohio

I like sex. I fail to see how abstinence would address that.

One word. Robots.

800 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:20:07pm

re: #793 negativ

I'd be tempted to go with "Full Mental Jackass", in order to convey 1) my opinion, free of ambiguity; 2) semi-homophonic tribute to Kubrik's film.

oooh, i like!!!! win!

801 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:22:29pm

re: #737 Dark_Falcon

I'd prefer "Bad Craziness Big Kahuna" myself.

"Big Kahuna Burger"? That's that Hawaiian burger joint. I hear they got some tasty burgers. I ain't never had one myself. How are they? I can't usually get 'em myself because my girlfriend's a vegetarian (which pretty much makes me a vegetarian). But I do love the taste of a good burger. Mm-mm-mm. You know what they call a Quarter Pounder With Cheese in France?

802 bratwurst  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:22:53pm

re: #796 SteveC

*scribbles that down* might try that! What fruit juice is your favorite?

Use apple juice for a German-style "Schorle" drink. "Cranberry" juice is also good...although I suggest making sure you don't end up with a high fructose corn syrup beverage masquerading by that name.

803 SteveC  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:26:40pm

re: #795 Dark_Falcon

...and their claim that someone else ripped off their data reminds me of Star Trek's Pavel Chekov's misatributions of other's achievements to Russia.

"How old are you, Ensign?"

"17, sir!"

"He's 17! We're saved!"

804 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:28:22pm

oh great. Tea Party Xmas Carols.

I'm divided as to whether the lyrics or the singing is worst, but I do know I need a drink.

805 SpaceJesus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:28:33pm

re: #61 Summer

OMG...I just made SpaceJesus get -666 Karma!

you sir, win the internet.

how did it get so low? i had like -2000 at one point.

806 bratwurst  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:29:57pm

re: #805 SpaceJesus


how did it get so low? i had like -2000 at one point.

The world has gone so crazy that you now appear sane?

807 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:34:27pm

re: #805 SpaceJesus

I hearby vow to downding every post you make good sir, if that be thy wish.

808 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:36:53pm

re: #805 SpaceJesus

Come to think of it, since you've come onto the scene I haven't heard a peep from SpaceLucifer. I suspect foul play.

:eyes you suspiciously:

809 SpaceJesus  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:40:46pm

re: #808 Slumbering Behemoth

Come to think of it, since you've come onto the scene I haven't heard a peep from SpaceLucifer. I suspect foul play.

:eyes you suspiciously:

"Space Satan or Bat Fuck Satan" haha, what?

810 Bagua  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:40:59pm

re: #805 SpaceJesus

you sir, win the internet.

how did it get so low? i had like -2000 at one point.

Must try harder spacejesus, if you were at -2000 you can do it again, don't give up hope.

811 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:49:05pm

re: #804 iceweasel

oh great. Tea Party Xmas Carols.

I'm divided as to whether the lyrics or the singing is worst, but I do know I need a drink.

Let's hope they never study music theory and find out about microtones.

If they DO find out, I'm pretty sure that John Cage will be leading the resultant zombie apocalypse.

Authors, artists, and composers clawing out of their graves to combat the onslaught of proudly ignorant anti-intellectuals... Anyone care to advance me about, mmm... 45 million bucks to make a crappy movie about it?

812 dugmartsch  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:51:46pm

re: #398 myfriendwatson

Why don't all the millions that support abortion set up a charitable foundation and pay for them? Why is it the govt's responsibility to pay for this?

One of the hallmarks of the left is that they think it's necessary for them to force you to support their charity.

Funny i feel the same way about your wars.

813 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 9:55:16pm

re: #809 SpaceJesus

The Uncyclopedia is a hilarious repository of the absurd.

814 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 10:10:49pm

re: #813 Slumbering Behemoth

The Uncyclopedia is a hilarious repository of the absurd.

re: #813 Slumbering Behemoth

In rebuttal, 937 words:

"Encyclopedia Dramatica"

NSFW, but then again you shouldn't really be browsing the intertubes while you're a work, should ya?

815 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 10:18:24pm

re: #814 negativ

re: #813 Slumbering Behemoth

In rebuttal, 937 words:

"Encyclopedia Dramatica"

NSFW, but then again you shouldn't really be browsing the intertubes while you're a work, should ya?

That's what my boss used to tell me...

816 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 16, 2009 10:29:32pm

re: #815 JasonA

I just noticed your avatar. PiPBoy FTW! So tell me, are you an Old School Fallout fan, or a New School Fallout fan?

/choose your next words carefully...

817 DaChew  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 3:49:47am

There are pictures of what the boy drew on the web.
[Link: www.tauntongazette.com...]

[Link: www.tauntongazette.com...]

I don't see a name written anywhere on it.

818 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 5:09:30am

re: #817 DaChew

There are pictures of what the boy drew on the web.
[Link: www.tauntongazette.com...]

[Link: www.tauntongazette.com...]

I don't see a name written anywhere on it.

That's because it was removed by the paper to protect his identity. Look at the bottom of your own links and you'll see this:

Submitted photo
A Maxham Elementary student was suspended from school for drawing what he says depicts Jesus on the cross. His name was removed from the drawing based on the family's wish to protect the boy.

819 dugmartsch  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 7:24:51am

re: #817 DaChew

Minus a million if i could.

820 DianeNYS  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 9:02:29am

re: #267 WindUpBird

That's why I'm lurking here, instead of my usual haunting ground at DailyKos ;-)

821 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 10:16:12am

re: #817 DaChew

There are pictures of what the boy drew on the web.
[Link: www.tauntongazette.com...]

[Link: www.tauntongazette.com...]

I don't see a name written anywhere on it.

Oh, good grief.

You could try reading what's written right underneath the pictures you linked.

822 coachbob  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 11:00:15am

re: #788 Charles

You were banned previously under the name 'loup-garou' for melting down over Robert Spencer. Now you're back spreading climate change denial propaganda.

Bye again!

Banned for questioning climate change?

823 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 11:03:11am

re: #822 coachbob

For being a sockpuppet. Know what that is?

824 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 11:11:21am

re: #822 coachbob

Deliberately misunderstand much?

825 coachbob  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 11:12:45am

re: #823 wrenchwench

For being a sockpuppet. Know what that is?

The post could be taken either way. He could have just said you are being banned for being a sock puppet, but he must have thrown in the part about expressing a contrary opinion for a reason.

Funny, I ask if he is banned for disagreeing and immediately get 5 down dings. I don't remember that happening to people before the much self publicized "split with the right wing."

826 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 17, 2009 11:23:13am

re: #825 coachbob

The post could be taken either way. He could have just said you are being banned for being a sock puppet, but he must have thrown in the part about expressing a contrary opinion for a reason.

Yep, you're deliberately misunderstanding, all right.

Funny, I ask if he is banned for disagreeing and immediately get 5 down dings. I don't remember that happening to people before the much self publicized "split with the right wing."

It must be terrible to be such a helpless victim. Here's a martyr cookie.

827 DaChew  Fri, Dec 18, 2009 7:07:16am

re: #821 Charles
Sorry, I don't recall that caption reading that way and the page has been edited since I posted it.

828 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 19, 2009 7:35:45pm

re: #827 DaChew

Sorry, I don't recall that caption reading that way and the page has been edited since I posted it.

Right, sure it has.


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