I can just picture Chris Farley as Steve Lonegan

giggle. I saw this the other night :)

Of course, there have actually been countries in which the rich and landowning were rounded up and killed. I don't think felt the same as being taxed.

/Not in favor of 90% tax rates, just saying the metaphor (Ingraham's) was out of line.

They really do make it too easy, how anyone can fall for this complete line of BS is still amazing to me - I would like to propose a federal law that would prohibit re-writting the "first they came for the..." to compare someones cause to the holocost. Anyone want to come with an appropriate punishment?

There's a LOT of irony in Ingram saying she's not the rich.

re: #4 Nanook37

They really do make it too easy, how anyone can fall for this complete line of BS is still amazing to me - I would like to propose a federal law that would prohibit re-writting the "first they came for the..." to compare someones cause to the holocost. Anyone want to come with an appropriate punishment?

Getting slapped with a fish on national TV.

I especially love the line "First they came for the rich and I did not speak up because I am not rich."

Ingraham is rich by most people's standards.

re: #5 Sharmuta

There's a LOT of irony in Ingram saying she's not the rich.

You noticed that too?

re: #3 EmmmieG

Of course, there have actually been countries in which the rich and landowning were rounded up and killed. I don't think felt the same as being taxed.
blockquote>

I don't think of any of them was a representative democracy however

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You noticed that too?

I thought Stewart was going to jump that for sure. I was surprised he didn't.

Oh Laura, I love when you pretend to be one of the "little people"...

re: #5 Sharmuta

That made me laugh as well - I wouldn't mind a couple of her paychecks but I wish I could get them with out being a complete loon.

re: #12 Nanook37

And she has a voice made for seizures.

re: #10 Sharmuta

I thought Stewart was going to jump that for sure. I was surprised he didn't.

I thought that was what the WTF was leading up to.

re: #9 Nanook37

No, but the difference between being taxed and being sent to a re-education camp in which your life expectancy is four months is huge.

As I said, I'm not in favor of confiscatory taxation. I'm in favor of lots of educational opportunities, efficient and efficacious charities, and not dumping toxic crap in the ground. Oh, and not having terrorists blow things up.

(That's the Cliff notes version of my political views.)

re: #7 Charles

From Wikipedia.

Ingraham is represented by the Executive Speakers Bureau, of Memphis, Tennessee, and receives between $20,000-30,000 per appearance

Not exactly chicken feed.

re: #5 Sharmuta

There's a LOT of irony in Ingram saying she's not the rich.

She also used to date Larry Summers.

"First they came for the rich. And I did not speak out because I was not rich. Then they came for the property owners, and I did not speak out because I did not own property. Then they came for the right to bear arms, and I did not speak out because I was not armed. Then they came for me and denied me my medical care, and there was no one left to speak for me"

Nice.

I'm glad he picked up the pen and sword comment. The lefties all focused on Bachman's light brigade faux pas. The pen/sword thing was worse.

re: #16 Bubblehead II

Then there's news appearances, radio show income, book royalties, and article sales. It's a booming industry - you too can become a right wing pus pundit and bileous bombast - you just have to stand up. That's right Stand UP! Stand up and lie...

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought that was what the WTF was leading up to.

Maybe Stewart thought it was so obvious, he decided to take a different route.

We are all the little people now... /

It's simple "they want more sunshine without the heat and brightness" marvelously on point in this case.

re: #17 Stanley Sea

She also used to date Larry Summers.

Has anyone defended calling her "Tuna Ingraham" yet?

You know, as a witty political commentary on her ability to afford much nicer fish than tuna...and having nothing, nothing at all to do with her gender.

re: #20 Thanos

Thanks you, no. I will continue to live within my meager income and maintain my personal integrity.

re: #25 Bubblehead II

Thanks you, no. I will continue to live within my meager income and maintain my personal integrity.

Me too friend

When moderate, family loving, hard working and a quiet firm love of liberty are in vogue I'll be raking it in with the book sales and TV appearances. /

re: #20 Thanos

Then there's news appearances, radio show income, book royalties, and article sales. It's a booming industry - you too can become a right wing pus pundit and bileous bombast - you just have to stand up. That's right Stand UP! Stand up and lie...

I'll take the more upright and noble route and pursue a career in hardcore pornography first.

I find Jon Stewart very funny...however Mrs Big Steve always giggles when she sees him because in her words, "he always looks like he is straining at stool."

re: #27 DaddyG

When moderate, family loving, hard working and a quiet firm love of liberty are in vogue I'll be raking it in with the book sales and TV appearances. /

And gold!

Which I'll gladly sell for 33% above market value.

/

re: #24 iceweasel

The douche dudes are still making armpit farts in the other thread, don't get them over here.

re: #19 Killgore Trout

I'm glad he picked up the pen and sword comment. The lefties all focused on Bachman's light brigade faux pas. The pen/sword thing was worse.

Indeed. We're a nation of laws, not men. They keep mainstreaming revolutionary rhetoric and that would over throw the foundation of our society. They seek to break the contract they claim to want to live under. If they want reform, they system is already in place for them to use, but they keep talking about buying guns instead. It's like they have no idea what a civil war in the US today would really mean to not just their neighbors, but the rest of the world. Crazy talk, and these elected officials should be ashamed of themselves.

Slightly OT here but is Zombie still posting here?

Just got an email "standing up" for the John Birch Society.

"Then they came for the Birchers, and I did not speak up because I'm not a racist conspiracy-mongering lunatic."

re: #33 Big Steve

No- you can read what happened here.

re: #31 rurality

The douche dudes are still making armpit farts in the other thread, don't get them over here.

I'm already here...

re: #19 Killgore Trout

I'm glad he picked up the pen and sword comment. The lefties all focused on Bachman's light brigade faux pas. The pen/sword thing was worse.

It was worse, Bachman's comment about the Light Brigade just proved her lack of knowledge in just another area (I think she also thought that Light Brigade had some thing to do with light as holy, instead of a brigade of light calvary instead of heavy calvary) - while the sword should be mightier than the pen is another call to arms and violence.

re: #24 iceweasel

Any chance you could leave that in the previous thread?

Notice how she said they came for the guns...then she said they came for your health care? Like the guns are gone already?

re: #33 Big Steve

Slightly OT here but is Zombie still posting here?

Evidence arose that said undead was a lying douchebag and is no longer here.

re: #39 Stanley Sea

Notice how she said they came for the guns...then she said they came for your health care? Like the guns are gone already?

Guns and health care only make each other better.

re: #41 Baier

Guns and health care only make each other better.

When they outlaw healtcare, only outlaws will have healthcare!!!
//

“When they came for the smokers I kept silent because I don’t smoke.When they came for the meat eaters I kept silent because I’m a vegetarian. When they came for the
gun owners I kept silent because I’m a pacifist. When they came for the drivers I kept silent because I’m a bicyclist. They never did come for me. I’m still here because there’s nobody left in the secret police except sissies with rickets.”
– Florence King

Besides which can anyone show me when the federal tax rate has ever been lower since the end of world war II? Seriously we pay less than at any time in the last 65 years yet now we need to overthrow the entire government because of our "unfair" tax burden? How about all the polling that shows that the majority of Americans are willing to pay more as long as that money is definitely used for a good cause? (like healthcare or paying down the debt)

The fact that there are this many morons who know nothing about history, the law, tax rates, the constitution, or the government in general scares the crap out of me. Anyone with an partisan axe to grind can tell them anything and they'll believe it, even to the point of becoming enraged over fictional nonsense. Looking forward to this "movement" burning itself out and splintering into irrelevance, tomorrow isn't soon enough for me.

re: #37 Nanook37

It was worse, Bachman's comment about the Light Brigade just proved her lack of knowledge in just another area (I think she also thought that Light Brigade had some thing to do with light as holy, instead of a brigade of light calvary instead of heavy calvary) - while the sword should be mightier than the pen is another call to arms and violence.

I was reading about that the other day, and it seems the Errol Flynn movie was completely historically inaccurate. I think perhaps this is what comes from teaching history through Hollywood. Not excusing bachmann by any stretch of the imagination- it just struck me as a likely source for her ignorance.

re: #35 Sharmuta

No- you can read what happened here.

thanks...sad that it came to that but that clears it up.

re: #38 wrenchwench

Any chance you could leave that in the previous thread?

Any chance you'll confine your complaints (or even take a stance) in the previous thread?
If you don't like the subject being in this thread, you'll drop the subject in this thread.

re: #45 Sharmuta

Yes, not based on reality of History was his movie.
It's for the style of the '30's movies I enjoy it... and snappy soundtrack ;)

Off I go. Peace

Sorry , Videos are not currently available in your country.

Awww ... Any links to let us UK Lizards watch this ?

re: #24 iceweasel

re: #38 wrenchwench

Any chance you could leave that in the previous thread?

Or at the very least wait till 100 comments here!

Actually ,,, on second thought, previous thread sounds better!

re: #44 ausador

what's your take on inheritance taxes?

re: #36 albusteve

And I thought you had no self-awareness in addition to insensitivity.

re: #5 Sharmuta

There's a LOT of irony in Ingram saying she's not the rich.

It's an ongoing schtick. Point at wealthy liberals and say that they can't possibly understand the American people. Leave the personal wealth of the person pointing entirely out of it.

Oddly enough, there is no such phrase as 'limousine conservative'. Although there probably should be such a phrase as 'limousine wingnut'.

re: #48 Ericus58

I agree with Killgore the bachmann stuff pales to that sword comment. Bachmann is just a puppet for her husband. There are a number of videos at youtube you can find where she discusses her subservience to him, and it's a little disturbing, at least for me.

But she doesn't worry me as much as others making veiled calls to arms. This mainstreaming of revolutionary rhetoric is disturbing, because it wouldn't be a revolution- it would mean civil war. That's what their promoting, and it's dead wrong.

re: #53 rurality

And I thought you had no self-awareness in addition to insensitivity.

hey, I'm impressed...pile on, I could care less

re: #41 Baier

They're still going to shut down RW talk radio. Someone told me that the other day. And you know they want to. The American people are under siege.

///

re: #55 Sharmuta

I agree with Killgore the bachmann stuff pales to that sword comment. Bachmann is just a puppet for her husband. There are a number of videos at youtube you can find where she discusses her subservience to him, and it's a little disturbing, at least for me.

But she doesn't worry me as much as others making veiled calls to arms. This mainstreaming of revolutionary rhetoric is disturbing, because it wouldn't be a revolution- it would mean civil war. That's what their promoting, and it's dead wrong.

the vote is mightier than the sword...time for the GOP to put their mouth where their rhetoric is and trot out some candidates and real spending issues

re: #4 Nanook37

They really do make it too easy, how anyone can fall for this complete line of BS is still amazing to me - I would like to propose a federal law that would prohibit re-writting the "first they came for the..." to compare someones cause to the holocost. Anyone want to come with an appropriate punishment?

Make them do the floors at the Holocaust Museum. With a toothbrush.

re: #12 Nanook37

That made me laugh as well - I wouldn't mind a couple of her paychecks but I wish I could get them with out being a complete loon.

Yeah. All things considered, I shall stick to my middle-class dignity.

re: #37 Nanook37

It was worse, Bachman's comment about the Light Brigade just proved her lack of knowledge in just another area (I think she also thought that Light Brigade had some thing to do with light as holy, instead of a brigade of light calvary instead of heavy calvary) - while the sword should be mightier than the pen is another call to arms and violence.

I don't know what she was thinking with the Light Brigade.

The pen and sword business is an open call to violence, and absolutely awful.

re: #56 albusteve

Taking my first comment personally would indicate that you care somewhat. Either way, tedious to continue.

I regret that my need to get work done today is mightier than the blog.

Enjoy your day!

re: #39 Stanley Sea

Notice how she said they came for the guns...then she said they came for your health care? Like the guns are gone already?

When, in fact, the guns are not gone. Mysteriously, Obama keeps not finding time to grab them. Possibly because he knows that we're clinging to them so bitterly that getting them away from us will be too hard to bother with.

Also, even if you HATE the health care bill, NO ONE IS TAKING YOUR DAMN HEALTH CARE AWAY!!!

re: #62 rurality

Taking my first comment personally would indicate that you care somewhat. Either way, tedious to continue.

In #53, there appears the words YOU and SELF

How could he NOT take it "personally"!?!?!

re: #41 Baier

Guns and health care only make each other better.

Well, one provides business for the other...

re: #65 sattv4u2

Initial comment was #31. Guess you were busy.

re: #65 sattv4u2

In #53, there appears the words YOU and SELF

How could he NOT take it "personally"!?!?!

in less than 24hrs I've been called an insensitive, dipshit, misogynist who hates poor people and women...groovy!

re: #55 Sharmuta

I agree with Killgore the bachmann stuff pales to that sword comment. Bachmann is just a puppet for her husband. There are a number of videos at youtube you can find where she discusses her subservience to him, and it's a little disturbing, at least for me.

But she doesn't worry me as much as others making veiled calls to arms. This mainstreaming of revolutionary rhetoric is disturbing, because it wouldn't be a revolution- it would mean civil war. That's what their promoting, and it's dead wrong.

I'm not so sure how real the subservience is. It may just be a rhetoric that allows them to deal culturally with the fact that she has a big public role.

re: #68 albusteve

in less than 24hrs I've been called an insensitive, dipshit, misogynist who hates poor people and women...groovy!

Cool. You only have about 76 more names to be called to get the CRANKY BADGE I have

re: #68 albusteve

And responded to "Douche Dude", man, you are so awesome.

re: #67 rurality

Initial comment was #31. Guess you were busy.

your 31 was piling on bullshit...check the timestamps before you embarrass yourself again

re: #52 albusteve

what's your take on inheritance taxes?

You didn't ask me, but it's an interesting question and rushing headlong into other lizards' conversations is sort of our schtick around here...

I don't like it very much. It's so hard to get around how to extract the tax from assets that aren't very liquid. Say your parents grew their small business to a medium business, and it's worth $20 million on paper. Know how to kill that business and create unemployment instantly? Tell you as the new owner that you owe 4 million in taxes, or something like that.

Whaddya think so far?

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not so sure how real the subservience is. It may just be a rhetoric that allows them to deal culturally with the fact that she has a big public role.

You would have to see them. I'll search for them and if I can find the ones I'm thinking about, I will post them in this thread. It's been awhile since I've seen them, and they may have been pulled, but another Lizard had dug them up months ago. Kind of creepy, imo.

What the hell is Lonegan doing with his hand on his face when he says "sword"? Is he talking about pork sword?

re: #67 rurality

Initial comment was #31. Guess you were busy.

In that case, he "took it" with humor!

Guess you were ironically challenged

re: #68 albusteve

in less than 24hrs I've been called an insensitive, dipshit, misogynist who hates poor people and women...groovy!

Yesterday you were pretending that you'd been called a wingnut, when no one had called you one.

As you were told then, It's not anyone else's problem if you choose to identify with certain terms when no-one has applied them to you.

That's all your problem.

re: #72 albusteve

Huh? Time stamps? Is that like a mattress tag infraction?

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

You didn't ask me, but it's an interesting question and rushing headlong into other lizards' conversations is sort of our schtick around here...

I don't like it very much. It's so hard to get around how to extract the tax from assets that aren't very liquid. Say your parents grew their small business to a medium business, and it's worth $20 million on paper. Know how to kill that business and create unemployment instantly? Tell you as the new owner that you owe 4 million in taxes, or something like that.

Whaddya think so far?

I think you are exactly right...and extracting taxes from liquid assets are even worse imo...I don't understand the rationale behind the whole concept

re: #52 albusteve

what's your take on inheritance taxes?

My take is that currently Florida has none, so I am a bit disinterested, we will have to see what the outcome of Federal legislation is to make it relevant to me. If you have watched the growing disparity in income in this country it has never been worse since 1928, it really has gotten out of bounds. I'm all for private business and their right to make capital, I'm not quite so fond of publically held companies making a tiny minority mega-millionaies while still adding to their wealth annually.

If the government manages to set reasonable rates to tax what is passed on by the current generation of multi-millionaires I wont cry over it. Family inheritence is great, but it shouldn't gurantee you instant billionaire status, you didn't earn any of that money did you?

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

Good job
MY biggest "issue" with it is being taxed on something that's already been taxed annulay (be it real estate, savings, investment income) and will continue to be taxed post inheretence

Here is a number of clips of Bachmann talking about faith and her husband

re: #77 iceweasel

Yesterday you were pretending that you'd been called a wingnut, when no one had called you one.

As you were told then, It's not anyone else's problem if you choose to identify with certain terms when no-one has applied them to you.

That's all your problem.

Similar to "your problem" associating Pelosis ties to a specific industry as being misogynist?

just sayin!

re: #82 Sharmuta

Here is a number of clips of Bachmann talking about faith and her husband

[Video]

Wow! She went to law school at Oral Roberts where they teach law "from a Christian world view". I didn't know that.

re: #84 Sharmuta

Wow! She went to law school at Oral Roberts where they teach law "from a Christian world view". I didn't know that.

you don't SAY!?!?

//

re: #78 rurality

Huh? Time stamps? Is that like a mattress tag infraction?

your attempt at a clever cozy up at #31 failed, the time stamp proves you were simply piling on an already dead issue...pretty simple?...noobs do that alot, you just don't have the hang of it yet

re: #81 sattv4u2

Good job
MY biggest "issue" with it is being taxed on something that's already been taxed annulay (be it real estate, savings, investment income) and will continue to be taxed post inheretence

I hear you, but the fact that we are running deficits means that we aren't paying enough taxes while we are alive. I don't care whether we cut spending, raise taxes, both, but the fact is that WE aren't paying our bills. Part of the reason our estates have the value they do is because we don't count our future tax liabilities against the estates. That is most assuredly a payable just like any loan your estate may owe to a bank would reduce your net worth.

re: #83 sattv4u2

Call your mother, sister, gf or wife "Tuna" and then get back to me about how it's just fine.

I cannot stand the borrowing of the "First they came for" quote for purposes such as these. This is a policy debate over the way in which we want to deliver health care for our citizens. We should believe that reasonable people on the various sides of the debate all hope that Americans are healthy and can receive competent medical care whenever they need it and for prices that will not destroy them.

Then come the hyperbolic horsemen and make this seem that one side is trying to exterminate the other.

My grandfather was a surgeon, from a line of 16 generations of Rabbis coming from Russia. On April 11th, 1945 he was the chief surgeon of the 102nd Evac Hospital when they entered Buchenwald and he found the bodies of Jews stacked like cord-wood in piles. Those still living were starved shells of human beings. When the soldiers offered them the simple food they had on them (candy bars) the sugar sent the survivors into shock so severe that some died.

Fuck you Laura. Fuck you for trying to co-opt what happened to the millions of innocent people who were tortured and exterminated by the true face evil. Fuck you for demonizing your fellow Americans, with whom you have a simple ideological difference, and trying to convince the uneducated that listen to you that they should fear their fellow citizens. Fuck you for furthering the destruction of discourse in favor of the promotion of sword-over-pen rhetoric. Fuck you for standing on a podium while people advocate violence as a solution to health care.

re: #81 sattv4u2

Also, I don't remember ever having principle (savings) taxed. How is investment income taxed twice? Dividends are taxed as there are paid to you, and capital gains are taxed when they are realized.

re: #88 iceweasel

My girlfriend thought it was funny...

re: #80 ausador

My take is that currently Florida has none, so I am a bit disinterested, we will have to see what the outcome of Federal legislation is to make it relevant to me. If you have watched the growing disparity in income in this country it has never been worse since 1928, it really has gotten out of bounds. I'm all for private business and their right to make capital, I'm not quite so fond of publically held companies making a tiny minority mega-millionaies while still adding to their wealth annually.

If the government manages to set reasonable rates to tax what is passed on by the current generation of multi-millionaires I wont cry over it. Family inheritence is great, but it shouldn't gurantee you instant billionaire status, you didn't earn any of that money did you?

Tsk, tsk. Income disparity can occur with nothing but simple math. If i have $20,000 saved and you have $200,000 saved and we both earn 10%, the disparity between us will increase. But was it unfair that we both earned 10%? If that's your version of unfair, then I commend you on your charmed life so far!

How can you have a rally with Laura Ingraham and Michele Bachmann and NOT have it devolve into a sea of stupidity?

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

You didn't ask me, but it's an interesting question and rushing headlong into other lizards' conversations is sort of our schtick around here...

I don't like it very much. It's so hard to get around how to extract the tax from assets that aren't very liquid. Say your parents grew their small business to a medium business, and it's worth $20 million on paper. Know how to kill that business and create unemployment instantly? Tell you as the new owner that you owe 4 million in taxes, or something like that.

Whaddya think so far?

I liked what Paul Harvey called it: the graverobber tax.

re: #86 albusteve

So, in order to be politically correct here, something I know you prize, I shouldnt read through a previous thread while waiting for new thread? Comments have and expiration date? Had I not read the previous thread and seen the various creepy, willfully stupid justifications of TunaPelosi, I wouldnt have know what Iceweasel was talking about in her comment in this thread, but was happening in real time, wouldnt have responded. And you wouldnt have taken it personally. Got it. Thanks.
I have to go make peanut brittle.

re: #32 Sharmuta

It's like they have no idea what a civil war in the US today would really mean to not just their neighbors, but the rest of the world. Crazy talk, and these elected officials should be ashamed of themselves.

Not just their neighbors and the world, but the future of their own children.
Are these folks really willing to sacrifice the future (and maybe lives, since kids do die in wars) of their kids? Do they think the majority of Americans will just sit by and let them commit treason and revolution and force us all backwards?
Over healthcare reform?

You want revolution folks?
Then use what the founding fathers gave you, honest elections based on facts not BS and the voting booth.
I'm getting really sick of their violent spewings.

re: #87 stevemcg

I hear you, but the fact that we are running deficits means that we aren't paying enough taxes while we are alive. I don't care whether we cut spending, raise taxes, both, but the fact is that WE aren't paying our bills. Part of the reason our estates have the value they do is because we don't count our future tax liabilities against the estates. That is most assuredly a payable just like any loan your estate may owe to a bank would reduce your net worth.

Eh. It's a small business until the unfortunate event turns it into an estate, in many cases. Why ruin the business with a one-time caning when you could skip the graverobber tax (minihat tip: Sanity Inspector) and keep milking the business for yearly taxes when it passes to an inheritor?

Estate taxes tend not to provide the maximum return...which according to your post, is what you're looking for. Me too.

re: #92 Aceofwhat?

I'm not coming from the same place ausador is, but I don't think that concentration of wealth in so few hands is necessarily good for us. Going by "the good lod days", which happened before I was born, our country seemed to have a better balanced economy, far less debt (!) and certainly had a less uncertain future (based in hindsight that we didn't all die in a nuclear holocaust)

re: #87 stevemcg
I hear you, but the fact that we are running deficits means that we aren't paying enough taxes while we are alive

NO ,, it means the gov't SPENDS too much

re: #89 Cineaste

I cannot stand the borrowing of the "First they came for" quote for purposes such as these.

No kidding. It's infuriating and makes me want to whack whoever is using that analogy upside the head with a cluebat, or a history book, or both.

Fuck you Laura. Fuck you for trying to co-opt what happened to the millions of innocent people who were tortured and exterminated by the true face evil. Fuck you for demonizing your fellow Americans, with whom you have a simple ideological difference, and trying to convince the uneducated that listen to you that they should fear their fellow citizens. Fuck you for furthering the destruction of discourse in favor of the promotion of sword-over-pen rhetoric. Fuck you for standing on a podium while people advocate violence as a solution to health care.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

re: #80 ausador

My take is that currently Florida has none, so I am a bit disinterested, we will have to see what the outcome of Federal legislation is to make it relevant to me. If you have watched the growing disparity in income in this country it has never been worse since 1928, it really has gotten out of bounds. I'm all for private business and their right to make capital, I'm not quite so fond of publically held companies making a tiny minority mega-millionaies while still adding to their wealth annually.

If the government manages to set reasonable rates to tax what is passed on by the current generation of multi-millionaires I wont cry over it. Family inheritence is great, but it shouldn't gurantee you instant billionaire status, you didn't earn any of that money did you?

Income taxes, capital gains taxes, and gift taxes will have nibbled enough from my nest egg, once I'm ready to pass it on. Who is it who wants to stand between me and my providing for my children? On what higher ground does s/he stand?

re: #88 iceweasel

Call your mother, sister, gf or wife "Tuna" and then get back to me about how it's just fine.

If my mother, sister, gf or wife derived a sizable amount of income from the TUNA industry and passed laws protecting the TUNA industry workers I would

As has been pointed out to you before, you're FISHING for a controversy here where none exists

re: #90 stevemcg

Also, I don't remember ever having principle (savings) taxed. How is investment income taxed twice? Dividends are taxed as there are paid to you, and capital gains are taxed when they are realized.

You pay taxes on the interest income from your principle savings. Those "savings" came from somewhere and were taxed at THAT time

In Ariel, Washington is a modest A-frame museum and a long house. They were built by a man named Don Smith, who went by the name Chief Lelooska. (He didn't just take that name, he had some justification for taking it.)

He was an artist, and carved Native American masks. Generations of school kids traveled to Ariel for his educational shows, which taught them about the Northwestern Indians, their legends, and their ways.

He was also really big, and died suddenly of a heart attack. He had never been a rich man, and nobody had considered the value of his masks, drums and other props.

His heirs nearly had to sell everything off and shut down to pay the estate taxes. A foundation was set up which raises funds and buys the masks one at a time from the heirs, who continue on with the shoe, still educating kids. (Including mine.) The foundation and the volunteers saved the show. There was no way the family could have payed for them and kept going

re: #97 Aceofwhat?

I don't like the estate tax either, but I can't really overcome that logic either. At some point we have to stop finding somebody else to blame for the deficits and face the fact that we all share some responsibility for our debt.

The segment after this one was just as insane and funny. Sam Bee interviews a Fox News reporter.

re: #105 SteveMcG

I don't like the estate tax either, but I can't really overcome that logic either. At some point we have to stop finding somebody else to blame for the deficits and face the fact that we all share some responsibility for our debt.

Lets look at it another way

What percentage of anyones income do you think is "fair" for the gov't to do it's business on?
In other words, (reversing the math) what percentage of the money you earn should you be able to keep per pay period

re: #98 SteveMcG

I'm not coming from the same place ausador is, but I don't think that concentration of wealth in so few hands is necessarily good for us. Going by "the good lod days", which happened before I was born, our country seemed to have a better balanced economy, far less debt (!) and certainly had a less uncertain future (based in hindsight that we didn't all die in a nuclear holocaust)

"Congress can raise taxes because it can persuade a sizable fraction of the populace that somebody else will pay."
--Milton Friedman

re: #87 stevemcg

I hear you, but the fact that we are running deficits means that we aren't paying enough taxes while we are alive the government views our money as something to throw with both hands out the back door of a speeding train. [...]

FTFY

re: #103 sattv4u2

How is that a surprise? All of your money is taxed at some point. You have payroll taxes deducted, that use that after-tax money to shop and pay sales tax. BUT when you invest that money, that money is not taxed again. Only the new money that it earns is taxed. You aren't taxed on your bank balance, only the new money that came in as interest. When you sell investment, you are not taxed on the sale price, you are taxed on the profit. Jeez.

re: #109 The Sanity Inspector

"America is a land of taxation that was founded to avoid taxation."
-Laurence J. Peter

OT - LGF use question - i just updinged someone and the number stayed at 0. what does that mean?

re: #110 SteveMcG

You asked how is that money taxed twice. You were taxed on the original money before you put it in savings. Now it's taxed again (the entire amount) when you pass it on (death tax) as well as the interest that was taxed yearly that is now part of that savings

re: #112 Aceofwhat?

OT - LGF use question - i just updinged someone and the number stayed at 0. what does that mean?

You offset a downding (1 + -1 = 0)

re: #112 Aceofwhat?

OT - LGF use question - i just updinged someone and the number stayed at 0. what does that mean?

Probably means that someone downdinged them previously, and it hadn't yet shown up on yourt screen. You can check by clicking the dinger number, which will show who dinged up, and who down.

re: #88 iceweasel

Call your mother, sister, gf or wife "Tuna" and then get back to me about how it's just fine.

Repost as you seem to have missed this:

Fail Iceweasel, my mom, sister, wife are not alleged to own $17 million in Tuna stocks, they did not push a bill favourable to the Tuna industry, and Del Monte which owns Starkist is not headquartered in their district. Alternatively, all of these things are either true, or alleged about the Speaker Tuna Pelosi.

I am against misogyny, racism, and bigotry. Tuna Pelosi does not qualify as any of these, it is legitimate political satire.

Why are you insisting of giving Sattv4u2 a derogatory label?

Pelosi's spokeswoman herself had this to say: ""Two weeks into the minority and all the Republicans can do is go fishing," Pelosi spokeswoman Jennifer Crider told The Post."

Was Pelosi's office making a misogynist comment about all the female republicans?

This one falls flat.

re: #110 SteveMcG

You aren't taxed on your bank balance

You were already taxed on that BEFORE you put it in the bank. Now the gov't taxes it AGAIN when you die

re: #107 sattv4u2

I'm not trying to say what is "fair". The simple fact is that WE (as a nation) simply aren't paying our bills. It's not like putting them on the charge, knowing that you have to pay it over the next few months. We are dumping our responsibility on somebody else (our kids) and blaming somebody else (the govt overspending, the Dems, the Republicans). WE aren't stepping up and doing what WE have to do. What are you gonna cut? I bet you can't cut enough to balance the budget. And it's turned out that a lot of federal cuts simply wind up having to be paid for at a local level anyway. Out tax burden is higher than we want to admit or take responsibility for.

Of course your estate is taxed only if it is over 3.5 million dollars and you did not do proper estate planning.
I have no problem with estate taxes since in the end it is free money the folks getting it did nothing to earn except to be born.

re: #119 webevintage

Of course your estate is taxed only if it is over 3.5 million dollars and you did not do proper estate planning.
I have no problem with estate taxes since in the end it is free money the folks getting it did nothing to earn except to be born.

The people getting it were part of the hopes, dreams, and plans of the people earning it. Doesn't that count?

re: #119 webevintage

Of course your estate is taxed only if it is over 3.5 million dollars and you did not do proper estate planning.
I have no problem with estate taxes since in the end it is free money the folks getting it did nothing to earn except to be born.

I disagree. If the money was, for example, a pair of taco stands in Southern California, the inheritors probably worked there with their parents. They could be very unaware of the value of the businesses.

Go see my 104. The heirs of Chief Lelooska had been working there all along. The law just considered his masks (which he may or may not have been aware of the value) to be his personal property.

re: #121 EmmmieG

Exaaactly. And trying to weasel a law into existence that would be able to differentiate between this example and a less heartbreaking anecdote is how we ended up with the monstrosity that is our 'modern' tax law.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."
--Churchill

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

Probably means that someone downdinged them previously, and it hadn't yet shown up on yourt screen. You can check by clicking the dinger number, which will show who dinged up, and who down.

appreciate it

re: #117 sattv4u2

Holy cow. Every penny you make went through the tax mill before it got to you. The money somebody paid to buy the goods and services you sell was taxed before it got to you. The "double tax" argument only works when you tax principal. The 50 bucks you put in the bank is never tax again until it changes hands. The 2 cents in interest it earned is the only money that gets taxed. Why should those 2 cents be any different from the wages you earn or the profit you make from your business?

re: #120 The Sanity Inspector

The people getting it were part of the hopes, dreams, and plans of the people earning it. Doesn't that count?

not when it comes to taxing income...

I assume good estate planning goes a long way towards helping with how much is actually taxed and there are various ways to protect a business.
(I making assumptions here and would have no problem being proved wrong.)
I also would not mind a sliding scale of tax rate for estates and protections for small businesses and family farms woul be a good idea. But I see no reason why Sam Walton's kids should not have paid estate taxes when he died or when Helen passed.

If we weren't running deficits I would be all in favor of repealing the estate tax. But we aren't.

re: #126 SteveMcG

If we weren't running deficits I would be all in favor of repealing the estate tax. But we aren't.

Then STOP RUNNING DEFICITS. Why is the answer taxing more, instead of spending less?

re: #125 webevintage

not when it comes to taxing income...

I assume good estate planning goes a long way towards helping with how much is actually taxed and there are various ways to protect a business.
(I making assumptions here and would have no problem being proved wrong.)
I also would not mind a sliding scale of tax rate for estates and protections for small businesses and family farms woul be a good idea. But I see no reason why Sam Walton's kids should not have paid estate taxes when he died or when Helen passed.

Don't be silly. People like that have trusts. I view trusts as a modern version of entailment, and therefore I dislike it.

Money should flow naturally, as it will if you allow it to, from stupid people (Paris Hilton and her peers) to smart people (people with jobs).

re: #127 sattv4u2

I've said before the answer is both. You can't cut your way to balance the budget. The deficits are way too big.

So why would it be OK for the government to take this, what exactly hs government done to earn your money? Why is that concept not kneejerk to you?

The comment about taxing more instead of spending less gives me an idea, but I'm morbidly curious.

re: #118 SteveMcG

that's why i loved reagan. none of this crazy revolution BS. just an understanding that government is like a baby...an alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other. so let's shrink the baby, baby.

re: #124 SteveMcG

Holy cow. Every penny you make went through the tax mill before it got to you. The money somebody paid to buy the goods and services you sell was taxed before it got to you. The "double tax" argument only works when you tax principal. The 50 bucks you put in the bank is never tax again until it changes hands. The 2 cents in interest it earned is the only money that gets taxed. Why should those 2 cents be any different from the wages you earn or the profit you make from your business?

Because investments (a) make the economy go 'round and (b) are inherently risky. Tax someone too much for taking a chance with their money and they won't. but if people don't take chances with their money, you and I won't be able to fund our own dreams and future plans to make enough money to invest, rinse and repeat. it really does work well if you don't poison it overly with taxation...

re: #132 Aceofwhat?

Whether you like it not, just because you think you deserve to pay lower taxes on investment income doesn't make those taxes go away. The point that i have been trying to drive home is that when we run a deficit, that debt has to be repaid. The tax money you don't want to pay now, whether it was an estate tax or a capital gain, is somehow, someway someday going to have to be paid.

re: #132 Aceofwhat?

Hey Ace: I'm too busy again for a meaningful critique. However, please keep in mind that the taxation of capital gains is only on profit, and that you can assess capital losses against capital gains.

In addition, please remember that, after the IPO of a company, the purchase of their stock or sale of it does not actually affect their bottom line, except in the rare case they can dilute their stock. So most investments have no relationship to the actual funding of a company. Only a very small subset do.

re: #134 Obdicut

Hey Ace: I'm too busy again for a meaningful critique. However, please keep in mind that the taxation of capital gains is only on profit, and that you can assess capital losses against capital gains.

Not necessarily true. Some states tax capital gains solely on profits and give no credit for capital losses. Or, do it simply on a per-year basis and allow no carry-over from losses from a previous year.

For example: If you lose $50K in capital losses in 2008 the state modifies your taxable income by zero (no credit against any other income). If the investments recover in 2009 (you gain $50 K in capital gains) you get taxed on those gains by the state. Whereas the federal government might have given you some credit for losses in 2008, and let you carry some of the credit for losses over to 2009 to partially off-set the gains there.

One thing to keep in mind in the tax discussions is that people are generally subject to three or more tax jurisdictions that use varying rules to tax property, salary income, investment income, etc.

re: #135 oaktree

I'm talking about federal capital gains, not state.

For example: If you lose $50K in capital losses in 2008 the state modifies your taxable income by zero (no credit against any other income). If the investments recover in 2009 (you gain $50 K in capital gains) you get taxed on those gains by the state.

You know that the capital gains tax is only assessed when the capital unit is sold, right? So how would you get taxed on the gains of things you already sold?

re: #136 Obdicut

I'm quite aware of that. But part of investing is an ability to consider taking a loss (or minor gain) on something in exchange for an alternative investment that could be more lucrative. Which is one reason that investments such as mutual funds generate income that is a mix of dividend and capital gains.

If you hold onto a single instrument than the gains/losses are simply unrealized until you sell it. That applies to property in general, not simply stocks.

re: #137 oaktree

So in your 135 post, you meant to say that if you lose $50 K in capital losses in one year, and then make $50K in completely unrelated investments in another year, you'll be taxed on those profits? Why would that be surprising?

What state are you talking about, anyway, and why are you focusing on the state level?

re: #134 Obdicut

Hey Ace: I'm too busy again for a meaningful critique. However, please keep in mind that the taxation of capital gains is only on profit, and that you can assess capital losses against capital gains.

In addition, please remember that, after the IPO of a company, the purchase of their stock or sale of it does not actually affect their bottom line, except in the rare case they can dilute their stock. So most investments have no relationship to the actual funding of a company. Only a very small subset do.

I'm ready to pick the discussion back up whenever you have the time-

re: #139 Aceofwhat?

Sorry. I know it looks like I do, but... hey, can I point you towards my favorite political philosophy as a filler?

Georgism

re: #138 Obdicut

Pennsylvania from personal experience. It just struck me as odd that while the federal capital gains tax rules allow for losses to be used for credit up to a limit plus some ability to spread losses over multiple years the state rules give no credit for losses.

I'm pointing out the difference since not all of a person's tax burden is at the federal level. And that the burden varies in how it is applied in terms of both percentages, and what categories it taxes. For instance, Virginia used to (and probably still does) tax personal property (boats, cars, etc) while Pennsylvania does not. And New Hampshire I believe has no state level income tax. And beyond this you'll see local (county/city/school district) taxes on income, property value, etc. as well.

And that's a different kettle of fish since personal property and real estate taxes are essentially taxes on principal and not simply on profit.

re: #141 oaktree

I'm just not sure why you're bringing it up... did you think I was unaware that there are multiple areas of taxation?

Just read my statements above as being about federal capital gains tax. The philosophical points aren't affected.

re: #142 Obdicut

Point taken. I just wanted to point out that the federal rules on capital gains and those of other taxing authorities could be different. Therefore, the points you made should not be spread too far.

re: #143 oaktree

Well, like I said, the philosophical points are still true: Most investment in stocks does not actually benefit the company whose stock it is.

Well isn't an IPO to a certain extent the private owners of a company converting their money (invested in creating the company) into someone else's money? Or alternately getting a large-scale loan of value to the company not dependent on their personal holdings (assuming that the company as it currently exists is the collateral for the offering.)

re: #145 oaktree

Dude, read what I said: After the IPO. The stock changes hands once at the IPO, which brings money to the company. After that, all the exchange of that company's stock does not benefit that company in any direct way.

Most movement of stock is unrelated to IPOs.

I literally felt sick to my stomach when Ingraham started in on the "First they came for..." line. There's been low points in this debate. (I found the "hurry up and die" line from the Left just as distasteful as the "You lie!" outburst from the Right.) But I haven't had this kind of visceral reaction to overblown rhetoric in... well, I can't remember how long.

It's not even the oblique Holocaust reference itself. It's the fact that someone could be so lacking in perspective, and so batshit drunk on their own delusional need to win at any cost, that they'll resort to referencing that speech.

It's like protesting health care reform by literally nailing yourself to a cross in front of the Capitol building and dramatically gasping "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do..." into a Fox News microphone. It's not just offensive in and of itself -- it's offensively stupid because it doesn't even try to make sense.

Hyperbole is an effective rhetorical device. But make sure your hyperbole in some way has something to do with the topic at hand before using it.

And how long has Ingraham been a bottle blonde? It isn't even trying to look natural. Would I be wrong in assuming it was when she became a Fox News commentator, to match all the rest?