Regarding Barrett Brown’s Offer to Debate White Supremacist Robert Stacy McCain

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Blogosphere • Sun Dec 20, 2009 at 5:05 pm PST • Views: 602

You have to wonder why white supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain won’t even acknowledge Barrett Brown’s invitation to an email debate on McCain’s numerous racist connections and statements — when Brown has offered to print the entire unedited email exchange in his upcoming book.

If McCain really has nothing to be ashamed of, this would seem like the perfect opportunity to set the record straight and explain how it is that he happened to meet recently convicted neo-Nazi Bill White at the 2002 meeting of the openly white nationalist group American Renaissance, or why he wrote an article for the American Renaissance website using a name based on a pro-slavery Confederate general, or why he used that same name to post numerous links at Free Republic to racist and neo-Nazi websites and then had all of his posts deleted. To name just three examples; there are many more.

Instead, McCain chooses to sling clumsily written insults at his blog, post obscene comments at other blogs, and dodge all of these issues like a running back hopped up on steroids. It’s kind of amazing that anyone could read his diversionary posts and not see that he never addresses any of this stuff with anything approaching honesty — but of course, that’s far from the only issue about which right wing bloggers are in total denial.

Barrett Brown’s latest piece for True/Slant reiterates his invitation to McCain, and also takes a look at a couple of other blog posts about McCain; Patterico, for one, seems to be almost trying to understand the issues, but can’t help joining the right wing blogosphere groupthink and dismissing the most important points that have been brought up about McCain’s ugly racist views. (With a couple of off-handed insults directed at yours truly, which is all the rage these days. Love you too, guys!)

Here’s Barrett’s post, worth reading as always: A Reply to Donald Douglas and a Restatement of My Offer to R.S. McCain.

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450 comments

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1 William of Orange  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:08:31pm

Just to let you know how small we actually are. Makes you wonder what the hell we are all fighting for...

2 Sheepdogess  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:08:33pm

Everybody has something to be ashamed of.

3 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:11:33pm

re: #2 Sheepdogess

Everybody has something to be ashamed of.

For most of us, that doesn't include being a racist scumbag.

4 SpaceJesus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:12:00pm

isn't this assclown also a member of some group that advocates secession?

5 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:13:37pm

re: #4 SpaceJesus

He belongs to the league of the south.

6 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:13:38pm

Huh, and a year ago I had never even heard of these people... my thanks to the management.

7 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:13:56pm

re: #4 SpaceJesus

isn't this assclown also a member of some group that advocates secession?

Yes, the League of the South. Look them up -- they're about one step away from the KKK.

8 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:14:02pm
You have to wonder why white supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain won’t even acknowledge Barrett Brown’s invitation to an email debate on McCain’s numerous racist connections and statements — when Brown has offered to print the entire unedited email exchange in his upcoming book.

You have to wonder also why the right wing blogosphere resists acknowledging what's blindingly obvious to the rest of the world.
Then again, I wonder that every day, about a variety of issues.

9 armylaw  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:15:50pm

re: #1 William of Orange

Is R.S. McCain an influential member of the Right? His name is not one I am familiar with.

10 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:17:08pm

I don't think RSM is ashamed about his views. He writes about his racist statements almost every week. He doesn't really say anything about them and he doesn't deny making them. He's probably devoted a thousand words or so to the issue since I've been following it.

11 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:17:48pm

re: #9 armylaw

You can read up on him here at LGF as a start. He was also sent to NY 23 to work with the conservative party up there on hoffman's campaign.

12 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:18:16pm

By the way, rsmccainisanass.com is available...

13 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:19:36pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

I concur. He acts as if he has nothing to be ashamed of, but merely cautious of revealing himself for the sake of tactical advantage.

14 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:20:16pm

re: #8 iceweasel

You have to wonder also why the right wing blogosphere resists acknowledging what's blindingly obvious to the rest of the world.


There is a strange sort of denial. I was creeped out by Michelle Malkin writing for a White Supremicist site (VDARE) but I couldn't really fathom her being a racist. It took a while for that to sink in.

15 Mich-again  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:20:31pm
Patrick Frey, meanwhile, has been exceedingly ambiguous. He has not come out and called McCain a racist, for instance, whereas I call McCain a racist some two dozen times before breakfast, while Charles Johnson recently got a tattoo on the small of his back that reads “R.S. McCain Wrote an Article For the White Supremacist Publication American Renaissance” in Chinese characters.

Now that there is pretty funny..

16 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:21:14pm

re: #2 Sheepdogess

Everybody has something to be ashamed of.

Hey, look, a white supremacist apologist!

17 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:22:26pm

re: #13 freetoken

I think there's a polite unspoken rule with racism. They really don't like to go on record with it. Even somebody like Buchanan or David Duke will watch what they say in public even though their views are not a secret.

18 SpaceJesus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:22:33pm

re: #7 Charles

Yes, the League of the South. Look them up -- they're about one step away from the KKK.

"The League of the South promotes the Confederate flag and sees opposition to it as 'cultural genocide.'" - wikipedia

lol

19 OneMonkeysUncle  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:23:21pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

O unhappy day! I just realized I have the same initials as He Whom We Dare Not Name...

Maybe I should change my name...

(Apropos of another thread, Malkin's started deleting MY comments, calling her out on the - shall we say - "inconsistencies" in the scribbles she posts on her website... I've been firm, but very polite; three posts have now been deleted (on her site, they just "disappear").)

20 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:24:40pm

Tomato Hornworm

Click to enlarge.

21 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:25:43pm

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Southern Gentlemen are by nature polite and well mannered, you know...

22 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:28:30pm

re: #18 SpaceJesus

"The League of the South promotes the Confederate flag and sees opposition to it as 'cultural genocide.'" - wikipedia

lol

A Ron Paul supporter and League of the South member (Image)

Article here.

23 SpaceJesus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:28:32pm

found the league of the south's facebook page. i think i feel a category 5 spacejesus troll storm coming on.

24 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:28:47pm

More on Stacy from the SPLC:

Also working for Fran Coombs is Robert Stacy McCain, a Times assistant national editor and a member of the white supremacist hate group League of the South. McCain is in charge of the paper's "Culture Briefs" feature, into which he has often inserted excerpts of material written by hate groups. At Coombs' direction, McCain has been allowed to cover "Southern heritage" issues for the Times, while citing as experts fellow members of the League. In addition, McCain is the only national reporter to cover four conferences put on by American Renaissance. Until 2004, McCain had never mentioned its controversial nature.

25 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:29:21pm

re: #9 armylaw

Is R.S. McCain an influential member of the Right? His name is not one I am familiar with.

He's an ex-employee of the Washington Times (was the Asst National Editor) and was one of the people who helped mainstream racism and bigotry there, including mentions of VDARE, a white supremacist site. He's also a pal of convicted neoNazi thug Bill White. The SPLC mentions him in this long examination of the WT's ties to racism and extremism.
Now he writes a crappy and unhinged blog which has mysteriously been defended and supported by virtually everyone in the right wing blogosphere, despite abundant evidence that RSM is not someone anyone should want to defend.
As for influential-- IMO he's an excellent example of the rot currently eating away at the right. He's had access to Palin in the past, (though I believe that has been shut down) and his ex-coauthor was Palin's ghostwriter.

Much more info available here if you search.

26 Mich-again  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:29:23pm

Last time I went to RSM's site to look around there were dreadful pictures of him looking hammered at some paleocon christmas party. Nice.

27 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:29:23pm

re: #2 Sheepdogess

Everybody has something to be ashamed of.

"What goes on in the dark comes out in the light."

28 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:30:32pm

re: #19 OneMonkeysUncle

(Apropos of another thread, Malkin's started deleting MY comments, calling her out on the - shall we say - "inconsistencies" in the scribbles she posts on her website... I've been firm, but very polite; three posts have now been deleted (on her site, they just "disappear").)


That interesting. She will take the time to delete dissenting opinions but not racist comments or threats of violence/armed revolt.

29 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:31:24pm

re: #20 Racer X

Nice bug
/Athough I'd kill it if it was eating my plants

30 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:31:28pm

re: #26 Mich-again

Last time I went to RSM's site to look around there were dreadful pictures of him looking hammered at some paleocon christmas party. Nice.

Could you imagine him and pammycakes drunk together?

31 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:31:36pm

re: #23 SpaceJesus

Pour out your wrath upon them... spare not one.

32 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:31:56pm

re: #27 The Sanity Inspector

"What goes on in the dark comes out in the light."

/life has got so much better since they invented those Combat bait traps...

33 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:32:22pm

re: #19 OneMonkeysUncle

O unhappy day! I just realized I have the same initials as He Whom We Dare Not Name...

Maybe I should change my name...

(Apropos of another thread, Malkin's started deleting MY comments, calling her out on the - shall we say - "inconsistencies" in the scribbles she posts on her website... I've been firm, but very polite; three posts have now been deleted (on her site, they just "disappear").)

Now we know Malkin's comment deletion policy, I guess. Typical.

BTW, that was my experience with RSM over a year ago. I didn't know about his racism then-- I called him out on pushing some wingnut lie, left the links to refute his claims and asked when he would be retracting. I was polite about it,
My comment--deleted. His post? Never updated or amended.

34 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:32:40pm

re: #21 freetoken

Southern Gentlemen are by nature polite and well mannered, you know...

True. A little fact that many northerners miss is that the more polite a Southerner is to you, the less they like you.

35 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:34:45pm

OT: I almost forgot that today is Troutmas!

36 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:34:46pm

Apparently Malkin was embarrassed enough by my post to delete that comment about "we have the right to kill our elected officials."

The other comments about lynching remain posted.

37 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:35:45pm

re: #36 Charles

Apparently Malkin was embarrassed enough by my post to delete that comment about "we have the right to kill our elected officials."

The other comments about lynching remain posted.

just the potential legalities involved

38 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:36:47pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

OT: I almost forgot that today is Troutmas!

Albuday was yesterday...bought a shiny new pc...zoom!

39 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:37:03pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

OT: I almost forgot that today is Troutmas!

Merry Troutmas, Killgore!

40 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:37:23pm

re: #36 Charles

I suspect she knows the legal implications. Racism is ugly but legal. Assassinating politicians is not.

41 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:38:09pm

re: #38 albusteve

Belated happy Albuday to you.

42 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:39:15pm

From the League of the South blog, Rebellion:

'Dear Texas, Please Secede'

Looks like the movement for restoring self-government and liberty has a new champion:

Dear Texas, despite all of your shortcomings, I am here to inform you: You are the last best hope of mankind.

...
I want my United States, but it is no longer the United States. It is gone and has been since at least the 1950's, as Rome was no longer Rome after the madness of the twelve Caesars, but still trundled on under momentum and past glories.
...
As The Other McCain observes:

And once Texas reasserts its independence, all sane Americans will immediately petition for citizenship in the Lone Star Republic. Why? Because (a) the United States is circling the toilet bowl ...

I've been telling well-meaning members of various conservative groups for some time now that the United States of the 1950s is gone forever, and that the best we can hope for is to outfit a suitable lifeboat from what's left of the REAL America.

Oh, and one more thing I'd like to add: Time's running out.

The 1950s in this context is a dog whistle for the pre-Civil Rights years of the 1960s.

43 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:40:12pm

Drudge top of the page headline: There'll be nowhere to run from the new world government
Panic!

44 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:41:17pm

re: #39 Sharmuta

Thanks, I should open my mail. Maybe there's some money stuffed in those Troutmas cards.

45 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:41:52pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Belated happy Albuday to you.

why thank you..and Happy Troutmas to you...and I hope you find some of these in your pond...

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

46 Mich-again  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:42:40pm

re: #30 Sharmuta

Could you imagine him and pammycakes drunk together?

Having a difficult time imagining that meetup. Pam wouldn't have anything to do with a guy whose teeth look like baked beans.

47 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:43:17pm

re: #45 albusteve

Heh. I'm one of those fly fishers who isn't too proud to rub some powerbait on a lure.

48 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:43:24pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Drudge top of the page headline: There'll be nowhere to run from the new world government
Panic!

Yes, and all of the Drudgebots will flock to it and take it for facts or news without realizing it's a commentary by Janet Daley.

49 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:43:29pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Thanks, I should open my mail. Maybe there's some money stuffed in those Troutmas cards.

Before you know it, it will be Darwin Day.

50 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:43:30pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

There is a strange sort of denial. I was creeped out by Michelle Malkin writing for a White Supremicist site (VDARE) but I couldn't really fathom her being a racist. It took a while for that to sink in.

After she came out with her book "In Defense of Racism", oh, I'm sorry, it's "In Defense of Internment: The Case for Racial Profiling in World War II and the War on Terror", I had her marked for racist.

51 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:44:10pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Heh. I'm one of those fly fishers who isn't too proud to rub some powerbait on a lure.

Sacrilege!

52 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:44:54pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Drudge top of the page headline: There'll be nowhere to run from the new world government
Panic!

/just submit, Google is everywhere...

53 jayzee  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:46:46pm

Really sickening.

54 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:47:51pm

re: #50 marjoriemoon

After she came out with her book "In Defense of Racism", oh, I'm sorry, it's "In Defense of Internment: The Case for Racial Profiling in World War II and the War on Terror", I had her marked for racist.

Me too. That also coincides with my awareness of Malkin to begin with though, I think.

55 Mich-again  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:48:34pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Drudge top of the page headline: There'll be nowhere to run from the new world government
Panic!


They'll be jumping out the basement windows when they see that.

56 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:48:36pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Heh. I'm one of those fly fishers who isn't too proud to rub some powerbait on a lure.

nobody knows but the fish, and he ain't talkin

57 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:50:08pm

re: #30 Sharmuta

Could you imagine him and pammycakes drunk together?

Pass the brain bleach, STAT!

58 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:50:27pm

Wicked fast Jet Boat!

Awe.
Some.

59 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:51:44pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

Um, Happy Troutmas.
(wtf is that anyway?)

60 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:51:48pm

re: #48 Gus 802

"The dangerous idea that the democratic accountability of national governments should simply be dispensed with in favour of "global agreements" reached after closed negotiations between world leaders never, so far as I recall, entered into the arena of public discussion. Except in the United States, where it became a very contentious talking point, the US still holding firmly to the 18th-century idea that power should lie with the will of the people".

that is sarc? right?

61 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:53:18pm

re: #60 brookly red

"The dangerous idea that the democratic accountability of national governments should simply be dispensed with in favour of "global agreements" reached after closed negotiations between world leaders never, so far as I recall, entered into the arena of public discussion. Except in the United States, where it became a very contentious talking point, the US still holding firmly to the 18th-century idea that power should lie with the will of the people".

that is sarc? right?

Doesn't look like it.

62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:54:00pm

re: #58 Racer X

How the hell?...

63 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:54:20pm

re: #61 Gus 802

Doesn't look like it.

She's a Brit... I can't tell.

64 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:55:11pm

re: #61 Gus 802

Doesn't look like it.

it is not sarcasm...there are plenty out there just like her...losing personal freedoms is no joke or radical point of view...one step at a time comrade

65 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:55:44pm

re: #62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How the hell?...

...do you keep your hair dry?

66 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:56:10pm

re: #64 albusteve

it is not sarcasm...there are plenty out there just like her...losing personal freedoms is no joke or radical point of view...one step at a time comrade

that is what I was thinking...

67 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:56:12pm

re: #54 iceweasel

Me too. That also coincides with my awareness of Malkin to begin with though, I think.

I knew of her first, and then learned about her book. I was surprised to learn she wrote such a thing, but I didn't read her often either.

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:56:59pm

re: #65 albusteve

...do you keep your hair dry?

Well... uh... yeah.

Hey! You can watch videos now?

69 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:57:26pm
70 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:57:51pm

re: #64 albusteve

it is not sarcasm...there are plenty out there just like her...losing personal freedoms is no joke or radical point of view...one step at a time comrade

Well, whatever becomes if this I'll just put it on the pile. I've gotten to the point where I check my mail every 2-3 days if you know what I mean.

71 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:58:04pm

re: #65 albusteve

...do you keep your hair dry?

I was wondering the same thing.

72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:58:19pm

CAN ANYONE IN THE NFL KICK A FIELD GOAL ANYMORE?

Sheesh! Vikings just missed one. Think there were 10 missed today. Not counting the attempted Cowboy killer from last night.

73 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 5:59:28pm

New ad-link on top of Drudge!

Russian Navy UFO records say aliens love oceans

Seriously.

74 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:00:12pm
75 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:01:14pm

re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well... uh... yeah.

Hey! You can watch videos now?

yes ,got a new pc...HP 6210 with all the bells and whistles

76 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:01:49pm

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

CAN ANYONE IN THE NFL KICK A FIELD GOAL ANYMORE?

Sheesh! Vikings just missed one. Think there were 10 missed today. Not counting the attempted Cowboy killer from last night.

Geronimo kicks field goals!?!?!?
/

77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:02:09pm

re: #75 albusteve

yay Steve.

Want me to play my favorite Manilow for ya?

78 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:02:15pm

re: #75 albusteve

yes ,got a new pc...HP 6210 with all the bells and whistles

Wouldn't it have been better if it came with a mouse and keyboard?

79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:02:28pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

Geronimo kicks field goals!?!?!?
/

Better than most in the NFL...

80 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:02:30pm

re: #77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

yay Steve.

Want me to play my favorite Manilow for ya?

Don't you fucking dare!

81 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:03:04pm

OT

They found the "Arbeit macht frei" sign.

Cut in three pieces.

5 suspects arrested.

82 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:03:49pm

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

CAN ANYONE IN THE NFL KICK A FIELD GOAL ANYMORE?

Sheesh! Vikings just missed one. Think there were 10 missed today. Not counting the attempted Cowboy killer from last night.

Folk had hip surgery last winter...he's got the heebie geebies I think...as for the others, it's a commie plot to throw the games

83 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:04:30pm

Freetoken, you here?

How about afreetoken or thefreetoken (dotcom)?

84 HoosierHoops  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:05:25pm

re: #82 albusteve

Folk had hip surgery last winter...he's got the heebie geebies I think...as for the others, it's a commie plot to throw the games


The Colts kicking game is good

85 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:06:41pm

re: #78 sattv4u2

Wouldn't it have been better if it came with a mouse and keyboard?

I use the new 'Telepathic Hands Free' software...the helmet is kinda heavy tho

86 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:07:04pm

re: #81 Gus 802

OT

They found the "Arbeit macht frei" sign.

Cut in three pieces.

5 suspects arrested.

Sadly, in a thread about RSM, it's not as OT as it ought to be...

87 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:07:25pm

re: #84 HoosierHoops

The Colts kicking game is good

I see that...just got by the Jags...but close don't count in the NFL

88 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:07:33pm

re: #85 albusteve

I use the new 'Telepathic Hands Free' software...the helmet is kinda heavy tho

Sounds like a personal problem

OR ,, the making of a porn star!

89 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:07:41pm

re: #20 Racer X

Tomato Hornworm

Click to enlarge.

And here is one of its close cousins meeting a horrible end.

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:07:51pm

re: #84 HoosierHoops

bite me
/

91 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:08:25pm

re: #77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

yay Steve.

Want me to play my favorite Manilow for ya?

you might spin a little Danny Kaye for us

92 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:08:48pm

re: #59 Floral Giraffe

Um, Happy Troutmas.
(wtf is that anyway?)

It's the international celebration marking the glorious birth of me!

93 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:08:53pm

re: #87 albusteve

And there are no "style points" either.

94 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:09:22pm

Speaking of kicking games

Panthers just had an extra point blocked!

95 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:09:30pm

re: #88 sattv4u2

Sounds like a personal problem

OR ,, the making of a porn star!

/go sit in the corner

96 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:11:10pm

re: #95 brookly red

/go sit in the corner

Can I Eat a Christmas pie;
I'll put in mt=y thumb,
And pull out a plum,
And said 'What a good boy am I

97 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:11:24pm

re: #83 marjoriemoon

Thanks... yes, I've thought of variations. The problem with variations is that people easily forget the exact variation.

freetoken.com is currently being squatted upon... as you can readily see by going to that domain. I'm not willing to pay money for it.

Does the world really need another blog? No. Nevertheless, I'd like a place to park my thoughts in more depth than what I can do here in the short replies which we use.

98 HoosierHoops  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:12:29pm

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

bite me
/

Peyton was on the radio the other day on Bob&Tom when somebody called in and asked Peyton do that whole liqueured up kicker spiel again cause it was really funny the first time. Peyton just laughed.. You should see his new house..It looks like a freaking castle.

99 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:12:30pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

It's the international celebration marking the glorious birth of me!

I hope you don't get crucified on a slab of cedarwood and smoked

100 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:12:49pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

It's the international celebration marking the glorious birth of me!

hmmm, I not finding it on Google... just something about a singing bass.

101 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:13:41pm

re: #97 freetoken

Thanks... yes, I've thought of variations. The problem with variations is that people easily forget the exact variation.

freetoken.com is currently being squatted upon... as you can readily see by going to that domain. I'm not willing to pay money for it.

Does the world really need another blog? No. Nevertheless, I'd like a place to park my thoughts in more depth than what I can do here in the short replies which we use.

Oh sure it does! Why not! Why should any other fool be better than you :) I have a personal web page also, but I haven't touched it in years.

I'm sure, then, you considered .net and .org too.

102 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:14:08pm

re: #98 HoosierHoops

Peyton was on the radio the other day on Bob&Tom when somebody called in and asked Peyton do that whole liqueured up kicker spiel again cause it was really funny the first time. Peyton just laughed.. You should see his new house..It looks like a freaking castle.

it's a statement..."I am the King"

103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:15:01pm

re: #98 HoosierHoops

I can imagine. Next to (or along with) (or instead of) Larry Bird, he certainly is King of Indiana.

104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:15:45pm

re: #102 albusteve

MMTA...

105 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:16:42pm

re: #81 Gus 802

OT

They found the "Arbeit macht frei" sign.

Cut in three pieces.

5 suspects arrested.

They probably just wanted it to decorate a nightclub.

/

106 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:16:47pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

True. A little fact that many northerners miss is that the more polite a Southerner is to you, the less they like you.

Which, politics aside, is more or less the whole point of politeness down here. A social lubricant for people who wouldn't & need not become friends. And I daresay it (politeness) isn't entirely confined to the South.

It's kind of like the John Callahan cartoon about the difference between New York and Los Angeles: In Los Angeles "Have a nice day!" means "%@#* YOU!@" In New York "%@#* YOU!" means "Have a nice day!"

107 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:18:33pm

re: #81 Gus 802

OT

They found the "Arbeit macht frei" sign.

Cut in three pieces.

5 suspects arrested.

Imagine the layers of irony and misgivings, as they repair it and re-install it.

108 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:18:42pm

re: #106 The Sanity Inspector

Which, politics aside, is more or less the whole point of politeness down here. A social lubricant for people who wouldn't & need not become friends. And I daresay it (politeness) isn't entirely confined to the South.

It's kind of like the John Callahan cartoon about the difference between New York and Los Angeles: In Los Angeles "Have a nice day!" means "%@#* YOU!@" In New York "%@#* YOU!" means "Have a nice day!"

makes me happy to live in NM where all that stupid pretense does not exist

109 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:20:09pm

re: #73 Gus 802

New ad-link on top of Drudge!

Russian Navy UFO records say aliens love oceans

Seriously.

How come our UFOs only love trailer parks and deserted country roads?

110 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:20:27pm

Evening lizards! A little sore tonight...lots of shoveling today & yesterday.

111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:20:51pm

re: #109 The Sanity Inspector

How come our UFOs only love trailer parks and deserted country roads?

Don't forget our butts.

112 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:20:59pm

re: #110 NJDhockeyfan

Epsom salt baths are great for sore muscles.

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:21:10pm

re: #110 NJDhockeyfan

I can't make a fist. Can't lift my arms.

114 HoosierHoops  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:21:24pm

re: #109 The Sanity Inspector

How come our UFOs only love trailer parks and deserted country roads?

Don't forget the Cornfields!

115 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:21:41pm

re: #106 The Sanity Inspector

Which, politics aside, is more or less the whole point of politeness down here. A social lubricant for people who wouldn't & need not become friends. And I daresay it (politeness) isn't entirely confined to the South.

It's kind of like the John Callahan cartoon about the difference between New York and Los Angeles: In Los Angeles "Have a nice day!" means "%@#* YOU!@" In New York "%@#* YOU!" means "Have a nice day!"

I'm also fascinated by the British politeness mostly because I don't really understand it. If you ask a British waiter for something they don't have they'll tell you "no" using 5 syllables while making a face that indicates sorrow, contempt, pity and joy.

116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:21:48pm

re: #110 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards! A little sore tonight...lots of shoveling today & yesterday.

Found a Charlottesville Lizard today.

117 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:22:19pm

re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Found a Charlottesville Lizard today.

Really? A new LGF lizard?

118 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:22:39pm

re: #110 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards! A little sore tonight...lots of shoveling today & yesterday.

I know how you feel, I've been there. And might be there again given that its started snowing here again. Very lightly, but still may add another inch or two.

119 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:22:46pm

re: #106 The Sanity Inspector

Which, politics aside, is more or less the whole point of politeness down here. A social lubricant for people who wouldn't & need not become friends. And I daresay it (politeness) isn't entirely confined to the South.

It's kind of like the John Callahan cartoon about the difference between New York and Los Angeles: In Los Angeles "Have a nice day!" means "%@#* YOU!@" In New York "%@#* YOU!" means "Have a nice day!"

actually in Brooklyn if someone tells you to have a nice day either step back or throw down, & do be quick about it :)

120 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:22:58pm

re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Found a Charlottesville Lizard today.

RealismRox

121 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:23:52pm

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

I know how you feel, I've been there. And might be there again given that its started snowing here again. Very lightly, but still may add another inch or two.

I got about 30 inches. My kids had a ball climbing the snow mountains I created in the driveway.

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:24:10pm

re: #114 HoosierHoops

Don't forget the Cornfieldholes!

Little fixin' there...

123 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:24:13pm

re: #109 The Sanity Inspector

How come our UFOs only love trailer parks and deserted country roads?

They know theres no intelligent life in big cities!?!?!

124 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:25:14pm

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Little fixin' there...

do you have a fixation on the ass?...are you an alien?

125 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:25:31pm

re: #124 albusteve

No. I'm Danny Kaye.

126 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:25:34pm

re: #109 The Sanity Inspector

How come our UFOs only love trailer parks and deserted country roads?

How come UFOs were freakin' everywhere in the '70's, yet now, when everyone and their brother has a camera on their cell phone, there are none to be found?

127 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:25:47pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

I'm also fascinated by the British politeness mostly because I don't really understand it. If you ask a British waiter for something they don't have they'll tell you "no" using 5 syllables while making a face that indicates sorrow, contempt, pity and joy.

Absolutely. Step on a Londoner's foot in the Tube and he or she will apologise to you-- in a cold and formal way that is somehow far more offensive than if they'd shoved you and told you to fuck off.
It's some sort of specialised skill they've developed: politeness as a form of urban aggression. Not entirely sure how they can make "I'm sorry" sound like "%#^&*%$#&, you ^&^%$#(! " -- but they can.

128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:25:55pm

re: #125 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(can't believe I just typed that)

129 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:26:12pm

re: #101 marjoriemoon


I'm sure, then, you considered .net and .org too.

Yup, and while they have their place, for my purposes I think I want to stick with .com .

I started working on a web page years ago... set it aside. Then this fall I've been working on some new pages for a personal site. I've got some done and tested, now its time to go ahead with it.

But those are personal pages (for families and friends), and to move my collection of email addresses from the ISP I have used for going on 15 years now. Back in the early days of the internet, when it first broke out of the small set of universities and gov't agencies, I had an email address that I kept for about 15 years, and it was very simple - just my name. Then I moved on, and set up a bunch of email addresses with an ISP that I've used for another 15 years.

I share this as I've come to realize that I'm in the first generation of those who have had most of their lives' correspondances done electronically. And what do we have to show for that? The bits all go into nothingness once the files are deleted on the server.

The one thing about those stolen emails from East Anglia is that they are now immortalized... out of the trillions of emails that are sent, only a handful will go down in history. Compare this to the kept and studied correspondances of centuries gone by.

Anyway, now my old ISP tells me they're going out of the business, so I have the joy of going through another round of creating new email addresses and making sure everyone I've corresponded with electronically are kept up to date.

Life by nature is transient... but at least the cavemen in France left something around that someone thousands of years later can appreciate.

That is not true of our modern electronic age.

We have deleted ourselves.

130 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:26:12pm

re: #126 Racer X

How come UFOs were freakin' everywhere in the '70's, yet now, when everyone and their brother has a camera on their cell phone, there are none to be found?

/global warming?

131 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:26:20pm

re: #123 sattv4u2

They know theres no intelligent life in big cities!?!?!

That doesn't explain the sightings on DC.

132 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:26:27pm

Robert Stacy McCain is still welcomed at Hot Air -- he has a post in their "Green Room" tonight.

133 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:26:45pm

re: #123 sattv4u2

They know theres no intelligent life in big cities!?!?!

it's all explained by von Daniken...do some research

134 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:27:15pm

re: #132 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain is still welcomed at Hot Air -- he has a post in their "Green Room" tonight.

At the rate Hot Air is going they'll be featuring David Duke next.

135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:27:27pm

re: #129 freetoken

"wehavedeletedourselves.com"?

136 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:28:22pm

re: #134 Gus 802

At the rate Hot Air is going they'll be featuring David Duke next.

David Duke is missing a big opportunity -- the right wing blogs are eager to hear his message.

137 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:28:52pm

re: #132 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain is still welcomed at Hot Air -- he has a post in their "Green Room" tonight.

Malkin's friends the Brimelows also attend American Renaissance conferences, where I'm sure Stacy had a chance to meet them. They all seem to run in the same circles anyways.

138 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:29:34pm

re: #126 Racer X

How come UFOs were freakin' everywhere in the '70's, yet now, when everyone and their brother has a camera on their cell phone, there are none to be found?

cloaking device

139 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:29:50pm

re: #133 albusteve

it's all explained by von Daniken...do some research

I did, and all roads led to Barney and Betty Hill!!

[Link: www.crystalinks.com...]

140 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:30:26pm

See you soon, ice-ski! I'm getting my coat on shortly and heading for the door.


re: #127 iceweasel

Absolutely. Step on a Londoner's foot in the Tube and he or she will apologise to you-- in a cold and formal way that is somehow far more offensive than if they'd shoved you and told you to fuck off.
It's some sort of specialised skill they've developed: politeness as a form of urban aggression. Not entirely sure how they can make "I'm sorry" sound like "%#^&*%$#&, you ^&^%$#(! " -- but they can.

Hah! Very true. And to make matters worse there are those Brits who will genuinely apologise to you if you step on their toe.

141 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:30:42pm

re: #138 albusteve

cloaking device

. . and they waited until we all had cell phones to turn it on.

Evil little green bastards.

142 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:32:26pm

re: #141 Racer X

. . and they waited until we all had cell phones to turn it on.

Evil little green bastards.

'specially her

Image: yvonne_craig_as_slave_girl_marta.jpg

143 brookly red  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:32:51pm

re: #141 Racer X

dot.com?

144 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:33:15pm

re: #139 sattv4u2

I did, and all roads led to Barney and Betty Hill!!

[Link: www.crystalinks.com...]

I was looking at my NM road and recreation map...a very cool thing...when I noticed the publisher has marked out UFO debris locations out in the east, north of Roswell...there are at least two and are in extremely remote locations way of the beaten path...odd that

145 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:34:31pm

re: #144 albusteve

I was looking at my NM road and recreation map...a very cool thing...when I noticed the publisher has marked out UFO debris locations out in the east, north of Roswell...there are at least two and are in extremely remote locations way of the beaten path...odd that

never saw Men In Black, did ya!

Thats where Will Smith caught one of the aliens

146 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:34:40pm

re: #144 albusteve

I was looking at my NM road and recreation map...a very cool thing...when I noticed the publisher has marked out UFO debris locations out in the east, north of Roswell...there are at least two and are in extremely remote locations way of the beaten path...odd that

That's because the aliens who can travel at light speed in their spacecraft are afraid of being chased by the average Chevy Impala with a top speed of 90 mph.

/

147 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:36:17pm

re: #145 sattv4u2

never saw Men In Black, did ya!

Thats where Will Smith caught one of the aliens

probably wreckage from failed experiments they shot off at White Sands

148 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:36:39pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

I'm also fascinated by the British politeness mostly because I don't really understand it. If you ask a British waiter for something they don't have they'll tell you "no" using 5 syllables while making a face that indicates sorrow, contempt, pity and joy.

“The English have an extraordinary ability for flying into a great calm.” Alexander Woollcott

149 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:36:41pm

re: #144 albusteve

re: #145 sattv4u2

never saw Men In Black INDEPENDENCE DAY, did ya!

Thats where Will Smith caught one of the aliens

ggrrr ,,, last 30 minutes of a 12 hour work day!!

150 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:37:38pm

re: #147 albusteve

probably wreckage from failed experiments they shot off at White Sands

Or just something that fell off a commuter plane!!

151 jaunte  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:37:39pm

re: #42 Gus 802

From the League of the South blog, Rebellion:
"Dear Texas, Please Secede."

From Texas to the League of the South:

"Y'all go pound sand."

152 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:38:23pm

re: #151 jaunte

LOL! Great stuff.

153 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:38:43pm

re: #150 sattv4u2

Or just something that fell off a commuter plane!!

Cheap Fokkers.

154 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:38:46pm

re: #139 sattv4u2

I did, and all roads led to Barney and Betty Hill!!

[Link: www.crystalinks.com...]

I loved James Earl Jones in the movie.

155 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:39:22pm

re: #146 Gus 802

That's because the aliens who can travel at light speed in their spacecraft are afraid of being chased by the average Chevy Impala with a top speed of 90 mph.

/

like this one?...I'd be afraid too

Image: PG00017-1.jpg

156 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:39:40pm

re: #154 NJDhockeyfan

I loved James Earl Jones in the movie.

Shit ,, forgot all about that

yeah, JEJ nailed Barney Hill

157 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:40:57pm

re: #155 albusteve

like this one?...I'd be afraid too

[Link: www.andyshouseofcustom.com...]

Hmmm,, Massachusetts plate. I went to LOTS of antique car shows up there and never saw that one

Cool

158 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:41:03pm

Just posted in the spinoffs:

The "Arbeit macht frei" sign stolen from Auschwitz in southern Poland has been found

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

159 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:41:22pm

re: #155 albusteve

that's Cato's car...the 'Desert Sailor'

160 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:41:22pm

re: #155 albusteve

like this one?...I'd be afraid too

[Link: www.andyshouseofcustom.com...]

That's a beauty.

161 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:42:06pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

Just posted in the spinoffs:

The "Arbeit macht frei" sign stolen from Auschwitz in southern Poland has been found

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yep. Cut in three pieces and 5 suspects arrested.

162 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:42:23pm

re: #140 Jimmah


Hah! Very true. And to make matters worse there are those Brits who will genuinely apologise to you if you step on their toe.

Exactly, so it can be especially difficult for Americans to tell the difference. I suspect this is one of the reasons why Brits often claim that Americans don't understand irony. That isn't true at all, but some of them like to pretend so. (it'd be more accurate to say that many Brits do not understand, or are made uncomfortable by, American niceness. Niceness is the only way I can describe it: the quality of openness and friendliness and the way two American strangers will talk to each other.

A couple of years ago I was leaving London for what I knew would be at least two years. I was on the plane feeling very sad about it. Then my seatmate turned out to be an American. Within about ten minutes I (and the whole plane) knew about her ex boyfriend, her family's difficulty in coming to terms with her bisexuality, and some scandal at her school. The Brits around us were all listening in hushed and horrified-- and envious-- silence. They simultaneously crave the American level of openness even while they pretend to be appalled by it. This is also one reason why many Americans find England cold and unfriendly, in comparison.

Anyway, I had been feeling sad about leaving, and then after she sat down I thought-- "Yes, I'm on my way home. Almost there."

Speaking of which...whar's ma laddie? :-)

163 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:42:35pm

re: #129 freetoken

On the other hand, i can still go carve something in a cave should I ever stumble across an insight worth preserving for millenia. Have we truly become more transient, or have we simply gained the capacity to record, if only for a short time, a far greater percentage of our thoughts?

164 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:44:03pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

Just posted in the spinoffs:

The "Arbeit macht frei" sign stolen from Auschwitz in southern Poland has been found

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I hope the assholes who stole the sign get a nice long prison sentence.

165 Girth  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:46:19pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

I hope the assholes who stole the sign get a nice long prison sentence.

I doubt they're going to find a lot of sympathy from any judge or jury.

166 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:47:45pm
167 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:48:26pm

re: #165 Girth

I doubt they're going to find a lot of sympathy from any judge or jury.

Nope, but I'm sure Robert Stacy McCain would get along with them just fine.

/spits

168 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:49:17pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

I hope the assholes who stole the sign get a nice long prison sentence.

Likewise. I'm also very interested in the motive. So far it seems like the Poles are doing a good job of keeping mum about the suspects.

169 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:50:17pm

re: #163 Aceofwhat?

Reminds me of the quality vs quantity debates...

170 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:55:03pm

re: #129 freetoken

Back in the early days of the internet, when it first broke out of the small set of universities and gov't agencies, I had an email address that I kept for about 15 years, and it was very simple - just my name. Then I moved on, and set up a bunch of email addresses with an ISP that I've used for another 15 years.

Yes, another excellent reason to have your own domain. You can switch at will while keeping your addys.

I share this as I've come to realize that I'm in the first generation of those who have had most of their lives' correspondances done electronically. And what do we have to show for that? The bits all go into nothingness once the files are deleted on the server.

Ah well, cheer up. There's always printing! I grew up writing letters, but have been online since 1983. I prefer email. My handwriting stinks. My typing isn't always better, but it's legible.

The one thing about those stolen emails from East Anglia is that they are now immortalized... out of the trillions of emails that are sent, only a handful will go down in history. Compare this to the kept and studied correspondances of centuries gone by.

You mean, 1000 years from now, no one will be interested in those Maxine cartoons my S-I-L insists on sending me??

Life by nature is transient... but at least the cavemen in France left something around that someone thousands of years later can appreciate.

Oh we have architecture, art, books. Lots of lovely things. Chin up.

171 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 6:57:18pm

Freetoken-

Here is an example of good mud shine, and it's even Japanese.

172 Girth  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:04:07pm

Oh yeah, I'm going back to the championship game to defend my title in my fantasy league.

I really need to get these guys to play for money.

173 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:05:11pm

re: #162 iceweasel

Exactly, so it can be especially difficult for Americans to tell the difference. I suspect this is one of the reasons why Brits often claim that Americans don't understand irony. That isn't true at all, but some of them like to pretend so. (it'd be more accurate to say that many Brits do not understand, or are made uncomfortable by, American niceness. Niceness is the only way I can describe it: the quality of openness and friendliness and the way two American strangers will talk to each other.

A couple of years ago I was leaving London for what I knew would be at least two years. I was on the plane feeling very sad about it. Then my seatmate turned out to be an American. Within about ten minutes I (and the whole plane) knew about her ex boyfriend, her family's difficulty in coming to terms with her bisexuality, and some scandal at her school. The Brits around us were all listening in hushed and horrified-- and envious-- silence. They simultaneously crave the American level of openness even while they pretend to be appalled by it. This is also one reason why many Americans find England cold and unfriendly, in comparison.

Anyway, I had been feeling sad about leaving, and then after she sat down I thought-- "Yes, I'm on my way home. Almost there."

I have observed a certain envy in a lot of the snobbish attitudes towards Americans from folk in the UK as well. Sometimes it verges on butthurt. The Scots have their idiosyncrasies too - some shared with our southern neighbours, some not. As you'll find out :)


Speaking of which...whar's ma laddie? :-)

I'll soon be on that plane, my bonny lassie. And then "Over The Sea"...:)

(non- fans of Jesse Rae should look away now...lol) :

174 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:06:46pm

re: #129 freetoken


I share this as I've come to realize that I'm in the first generation of those who have had most of their lives' correspondances done electronically. And what do we have to show for that? The bits all go into nothingness once the files are deleted on the server.

One area I've always wondered about-- biographers. Used to be that your subject's correspondence, especially if they had extensive ones, was a research goldmine.
What about now? There's rarely a physical record of it now-- people discard email addresses, delete emails, rarely have a hard copy printed out. it's going to change certain kinds of scholarship and research in the future, and not necessarily for the better.

175 HoosierHoops  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:06:58pm

re: #173 Jimmah

Be safe on your travels here..

176 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:10:54pm

re: #174 iceweasel

One area I've always wondered about-- biographers. Used to be that your subject's correspondence, especially if they had extensive ones, was a research goldmine.
What about now? There's rarely a physical record of it now-- people discard email addresses, delete emails, rarely have a hard copy printed out. it's going to change certain kinds of scholarship and research in the future, and not necessarily for the better.

No more negatives, no more prints. I still have prints and negatives from the more than 20 years ago. In order to maintain a computer record of similar artifacts it takes a more concerted effort. People generally don't print out images on their computer and if they do the quality of an image print isn't even as good as a photographic print from the 1920s for example. If they do they'd have to back up a hard drive and then what happens 100 years from now when people find a hard drive and the technology has changed drastically.

177 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:12:01pm

re: #162 iceweasel

Who the first inhabitants of Britain were, whether natives or immigrants,
remains obscure; one must remember we are dealing with barbarians.
--Tacitus

The difference between America and England is that Americans think 100 years is a long time, while the English think 100 miles is a long way.
--Earle Hitchner

In America you must live life with a smile, even before your toothbrush has had time to reach your mouth.
-- Prince William of Sweden

Suddenly, in the space of a moment, I realized what it was that I loved about Britian--which is to say, all of it. Every last bit of it, good and bad--old churches, country lanes, people saying 'Mustn't grumble,' and 'I'm terribly sorry but,' people apologizing to ME when I conk them with a careless elbow, milk in bottles, beans on toast, haymaking in June, seaside piers, Ordnance Survey maps, tea and crumpets, summer showers and foggy winter evenings--every bit of it.
--Bill Bryson, Notes from a Small Island

178 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:17:21pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

It's the international celebration marking the glorious birth of me!

I hope you had a FABULOUS birthday!
( Was gonna post Marilyn Monroe's Happy Birthday Mr. President, but you tube seems to be down.)

179 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:23:14pm

re: #177 The Sanity Inspector

I can always count on you for the best literary quotes, on any subject. :-)

180 jayzee  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:23:53pm

A little OT but anyone else see Ron Paul in Bruno? I had to pause the movie because I started getting sooo uncomfortable.

181 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:24:53pm

re: #155 albusteve

like this one?...I'd be afraid too

[Link: www.andyshouseofcustom.com...]

OMG.
I want that.
I will dye my hair to match it's paint!

182 HoosierHoops  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:31:08pm

re: #181 Floral Giraffe

OMG.
I want that.
I will dye my hair to match it's paint!

I dye my hair blue during the play-offs.. I get a pass cause I'm from California and everybody thinks I'm crazy anyway..
/I look good with blue hair...:)

183 Mich-again  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:34:53pm

From the google cache.. pics of RSM at the AFF Christmas party. Conservatives drinking liberally using "Christmas" for the occasion. Dude does not look well.

184 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:35:05pm

re: #179 iceweasel

I can always count on you for the best literary quotes, on any subject. :-)

Thanks! RSM spent his usenet years in neo-confederacy newsgroups; I spent mine in alt.quotations.

185 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:35:29pm

re: #178 Floral Giraffe

Much thanks. I spent the day tending my garden, cooking, eating and "working". I couldn't have hoped for a better Troutmas is I had planned it a year in advance.

186 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:36:35pm

re: #182 HoosierHoops

I would have the EXACT shade of red to match that car.
Even if it meant SHELLAC!
LOL!

I bet you look good in blue!

187 HoosierHoops  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:41:39pm

re: #186 Floral Giraffe

I would have the EXACT shade of red to match that car.
Even if it meant SHELLAC!
LOL!

I bet you look good in blue!

I bet you look good in red..Every year I send a picture of me back to the home office in Silly Cone Valley with me with blue hair..They love it...

188 OneMonkeysUncle  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:45:09pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

That interesting. She [Malkin] will take the time to delete dissenting opinions but not racist comments or threats of violence/armed revolt.

She seems to delete anything that will interfere with her ignoramus commenters buying Malkin-products and clicking on ads on her site. Read the comments on her current top post if you're interested in experiencing the kind of delusional thinking she appears to be encouraging.

189 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:50:37pm

I keep getting spinning wheels of death. Anyone else?

190 HoosierHoops  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:53:48pm

I'm having all sorts of issues Sharm..I can't even quote you

191 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:54:58pm

re: #189 Sharmuta

I keep getting spinning wheels of death. Anyone else?

Couldn't connect for a few minutes. I was having panic attacks.

192 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:55:19pm

re: #189 Sharmuta

YES! Me too!
And I even cleared my cookies & reloaded.
Such a devotion to this site!
LOL!

193 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:55:28pm

Whew. Had to reset my connection. Either that or it got fixed by itself.

194 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:55:56pm

re: #190 HoosierHoops

At least I'm not alone. Thanks Hoops.

195 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:55:58pm

re: #193 Gus 802

Whew. Had to reset my connection. Either that or it got fixed by itself.

I did that with my mind.

196 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:56:32pm

re: #193 Gus 802

Whew. Had to reset my connection. Either that or it got fixed by itself.

Praise be to Stinky.

197 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:56:52pm

I am depressed as fucking hell.

198 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:57:04pm

Tutulemma: Solar Eclipse Analemma

Explanation: If you went outside at exactly the same time every day and took a picture that included the Sun, how would the Sun appear to move? With great planning and effort, such a series of images can be taken. The figure-8 path the Sun follows over the course of a year is called an analemma.

This coming Tuesday, the Winter Solstice day in Earth's northern hemisphere, the Sun will be at the bottom of the analemma. Analemmas created from different latitudes would appear at least slightly different, as well as analemmas created at a different time each day.

With even greater planning and effort, the series can include a total eclipse of the Sun as one of the images. Pictured is such a total solar eclipse analemma or Tutulemma - a term coined by the photographers based on the Turkish word for eclipse.

The composite image sequence was recorded from Turkey starting in 2005. The base image for the sequence is from the total phase of a solar eclipse as viewed from Side, Turkey on 2006 March 29. Venus was also visible during totality, toward the lower right.

199 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:57:45pm

re: #197 Alouette

I am depressed as fucking hell.

What seems to be the matter?

200 albusteve  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:57:48pm

re: #189 Sharmuta

I keep getting spinning wheels of death. Anyone else?

yep...

201 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:59:00pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

Praise be to Stinky.

All hail Stinky!

202 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:59:00pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

What seems to be the matter?

Got some bank overdrafts, and may have to cancel my health insurance. My nonprofit is in the crapper. Please everybody visit the Zionist Mall and buy something.

203 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:59:49pm

re: #201 Floral Giraffe

All hail Stinky!

Let us all gather around the edge of the volcano!

/

204 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 7:59:55pm

Sorry for unloading on the Lizard nation. BTW I have not consumed any adult beverages.

205 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:00:48pm

{Alouette}

Hang in there.

206 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:00:51pm

The web server got tired for a couple of minutes there.

207 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:01:19pm

The job market sucks when you're over 60. That is why I have been trying to build my nonprofit foundation. I have to find some donors.

208 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:01:30pm

re: #202 Alouette

Got some bank overdrafts, and may have to cancel my health insurance. My nonprofit is in the crapper. Please everybody visit the Zionist Mall and buy something.

Sorry to hear that. I'm in the same position myself (financially). It stinks. When I'm not sleeping I'm thinking about it all and it's very draining on the soul.

209 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:02:39pm

re: #204 Alouette

Sorry for unloading on the Lizard nation. BTW I have not consumed any adult beverages.

You've done good things for us. Unload, I'll do my best to help. I actually have some cheer today. I went to work on my day off (won't get paid for my time today) and managed to pick up some badly needed activations.

210 The Shadow Do  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:03:12pm

Good evening all. Here is a really interesting human interest story found today in the local news...
84-year-old founder of Dallas' City Ballet reveals identity she hid for years

The 84-year-old woman, who 60 years ago founded the renowned City Ballet, teaching generations of Dallas children how to dance, would announce to the world what she had hidden all those years from her dancers and their families – that she is Jewish.

Worth a read. Living in mortal fear all these years. With cause given there are people today the likes of McCain spitting bigotry and hate.

211 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:03:45pm

re: #206 Charles

The web server got tired for a couple of minutes there.

The hamsters may be getting dehydrated. Put some Gatorade in their water bottles.

212 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:05:24pm

re: #208 Gus 802

Sorry to hear that. I'm in the same position myself (financially). It stinks. When I'm not sleeping I'm thinking about it all and it's very draining on the soul.

I'm taking anti depressants, but they're not working too well. I've been trying to find a full time position but in the meantine, working on the Zionist Mall and the History Foundation is my primary activity.

I'd appreciate advice and suggestions on how to improve the History Foundation and earn more money from the Mall.

213 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:06:12pm

re: #206 Charles

Was it something we did?
Poor, hamsters.

214 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:08:27pm

re: #212 Alouette

I'm taking anti depressants, but they're not working too well. I've been trying to find a full time position but in the meantine, working on the Zionist Mall and the History Foundation is my primary activity.

I'd appreciate advice and suggestions on how to improve the History Foundation and earn more money from the Mall.

What about a link with a button right here at Little Green Footballs for the Zionist Mall? Something to discuss with Charles perhaps?

215 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:11:08pm

re: #214 Gus 802

Have you tried Ebaying things? It's massively tedious, but gets a lot of eyeballs, and might mean some income.

I bet those IDF t-shirts would be good on Ebay.

216 HoosierHoops  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:12:00pm

re: #207 Alouette

The job market sucks when you're over 60. That is why I have been trying to build my nonprofit foundation. I have to find some donors.

Is there not air you are breathing? Do you not have wonderful children on this earth that make you so proud?
Is this period in your life so hard that you can't thank God when you fall asleep tonight? Lay your burden upon God tonight and thank him for your life and the miracle of your family.. Trust me He will lift you up and help carry your burden.

217 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:13:03pm

re: #215 Floral Giraffe

Have you tried Ebaying things? It's massively tedious, but gets a lot of eyeballs, and might mean some income.

I bet those IDF t-shirts would be good on Ebay.

Cafe-Press maybe?

218 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:14:11pm

re: #181 Floral Giraffe

OMG.
I want that.
I will dye my hair to match it's paint!

Lawdy.
My daughter DID dye parts of her hair to match that paint.

219 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:14:42pm

re: #214 Gus 802

What about a link with a button right here at Little Green Footballs for the Zionist Mall? Something to discuss with Charles perhaps?

I already have a link to LGF on my Vicious Babushka blog and also as a pro-Israel resource on the non-profit site. I have a paying gig coming up this March, giving a presentation at Liberty University. I know they are a winnut institution, but a paying gig is a paying gig. They are good for a couple thousand dollar honorarium, My son will give the actual presentation=he's the Chabad shliach for northern Alabama. What should we ask for an honorarium?

220 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:16:44pm

re: #219 Alouette

Expenses plus a fair price for your services.

221 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:18:01pm

re: #218 reine.de.tout

Lawdy.
My daughter DID dye parts of her hair to match that paint.

Your daughter looked better in that color than I ever would!
*waves*
Hi Reine!

222 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:18:28pm

re: #216 HoosierHoops

Is there not air you are breathing? Do you not have wonderful children on this earth that make you so proud?
Is this period in your life so hard that you can't thank God when you fall asleep tonight? Lay your burden upon God tonight and thank him for your life and the miracle of your family.. Trust me He will lift you up and help carry your burden.

You made me cry, Hoosier."Lay your burden on the Lord, and He will provide for your needs." That is exactly how I should think, then I won't feel so abandoned.

I have a business (not doing too well right now) and a non-profit foundation that depends on revenue from the business, and donations from interested users.

223 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:18:40pm

re: #221 Floral Giraffe

Your daughter looked better in that color than I ever would!
*waves*
Hi Reine!

Hiya, Flo!

Alouette - what will the presentation be about, and how long will it be?

224 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:19:29pm

re: #219 Alouette

I already have a link to LGF on my Vicious Babushka blog and also as a pro-Israel resource on the non-profit site. I have a paying gig coming up this March, giving a presentation at Liberty University. I know they are a winnut institution, but a paying gig is a paying gig. They are good for a couple thousand dollar honorarium, My son will give the actual presentation=he's the Chabad shliach for northern Alabama. What should we ask for an honorarium?

Oh, I meant a link from LGF to the Zionist Mall.

For honorarium? I could only guess. Maybe like Floral Giraffe suggests?

Yahoo Hot Jobs has a good job listing. They're also used by a lot of newspapers around the country. If you leave the location blank it brings up the jobs all across the country.

225 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:21:32pm

Various blog wars going on right now put me in mind of this song:

I hear some people
been talkin' me down,
Bring up my name,
pass it 'round.
They don't mention
happy times
They do their thing,
I'll do mine.

Ooh baby,
that's hard to change
I can't tell them
how to feel.
Some get stoned,
some get strange,
But sooner or later
it all gets real.

Walk on, walk on,
Walk on, walk on.

226 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:22:36pm

re: #223 reine.de.tout

Hiya, Flo!

Alouette - what will the presentation be about, and how long will it be?

Lib U asked me to talk about the first Jews to serve as chaplains during the Civil War, I'm preparing a talk according to a set of questions that they sent me, with a slideshow. Should be pretty interesting. If I can get my son to deliver the presentation, he can make it fascinating.

227 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:23:47pm

re: #223 reine.de.tout

And, it's Killgore Trout's Birthday today!
AKA "Troutmas day".
LOL!

228 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:24:36pm

re: #222 Alouette

You made me cry, Hoosier."Lay your burden on the Lord, and He will provide for your needs." That is exactly how I should think, then I won't feel so abandoned.

I have a business (not doing too well right now) and a non-profit foundation that depends on revenue from the business, and donations from interested users.

Alouette, in extremis you might try seeing if Uncle Sam could help you out. There are also directories of grants, and books on how to apply for grants. Not the same as earning the $ by the sweat of your own brow, I know, but still something to investigate.

229 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:25:01pm

re: #226 Alouette

You could make it fascinating too. You're doing the research, you can take notes of personal things, that would spice up the presentation.

230 simoom  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:25:56pm

Not too exciting, but a few hours ago Sen. Coburn, on the floor of the Senate, seemed to ask the American people to join him in an imprecatory prayer:

What the American people ought to pray is that somebody can’t make the vote tonight. That’s what they ought to pray.

Tonight's vote will be the first of three for cloture.

(h/t ThinkProgress)

231 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:27:50pm

re: #230 simoom

Not too exciting, but a few hours ago Sen. Coburn, on the floor of the Senate, seemed to ask the American people to join him in an imprecatory prayer:

Yep, this Christmas season, Republicans are praying for their political opponents to die. Or at least, get very sick.

Merry GOP Christmas!

232 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:28:14pm

Hoops, please put me on the prayer list for a parnassa, that's Hebrew for "livelihood" so that I can continue to live like a mensch, keep my medical insurance, and live through my own talent and not have to come on to some program for the destitute.

233 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:28:40pm

re: #226 Alouette

Lib U asked me to talk about the first Jews to serve as chaplains during the Civil War, I'm preparing a talk according to a set of questions that they sent me, with a slideshow. Should be pretty interesting. If I can get my son to deliver the presentation, he can make it fascinating.

This is the Baptist school in Virginia?

I'd do as Flo suggested - expenses plus a fair price. Be sure to figure your prep time into the expenses, at a fair hourly rate.
I would think this is a topic of great interest to them, since they requested the presentation. When figuring what you should ask them for, I guess take that into consideration as well as the length of the presentation.

234 avanti  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:28:47pm

O.T., short video of my 74 year old friend beating a 440 six pack at the Pure Stock Muscle Car drags. He won the two out of three shoot out with the Mopar. We had 6 or 8 Studebaker's competing this year.

235 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:29:21pm

re: #225 The Sanity Inspector

If you want to see blog wars, you should hear about the asshole who is taking what Charles posted about the National Geographic vid "What Henry Hudson saw in 1609" and uses it to call Charles a racist. He's an ally of Rodan, so I don't want to directly link. How do I do a Google cache again?

236 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:29:27pm

re: #227 Floral Giraffe

And, it's Killgore Trout's Birthday today!
AKA "Troutmas day".
LOL!

Oh, is it now?

HAPPY BIRTHDAY KILLGORE.
I hope watching all those cake shows you were forced to watch ended up with you having a really great birthday cake.
That you really ought to share with us.

237 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:30:46pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

If you want to see blog wars, you should hear about the asshole who is taking what Charles posted about the National Geographic vid "What Henry Hudson saw in 1609" and uses it to call Charles a racist. He's an ally of Rodan, so I don't want to directly link. How do I do a Google cache again?

Enter the URL into the Google search field. Then use the "cached" link.

There might be another way.

238 Mich-again  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:30:50pm

re: #231 Charles

The cockroaches aren't afraid of the kitchen light anymore.

239 jayzee  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:32:03pm

re: #232 Alouette

Hoops, please put me on the prayer list for a parnassa, that's Hebrew for "livelihood" so that I can continue to live like a mensch, keep my medical insurance, and live through my own talent and not have to come on to some program for the destitute.

Amen. It's been a tough fiscal year, I hope next year is easier and more profitable.

240 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:32:17pm

re: #237 Gus 802

Enter the URL into the Google search field. Then use the "cached" link.

There might be another way.

I'll try that.

241 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:32:17pm

re: #230 simoom

Not too exciting, but a few hours ago Sen. Coburn, on the floor of the Senate, seemed to ask the American people to join him in an imprecatory prayer:

Tonight's vote will be the first of three for cloture.

(h/t ThinkProgress)

Good grief!

I have a sneaking suspicion that God has a lot more on his mind than whether or not the U.S. Health Care bill passes or not.

242 HoosierHoops  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:33:11pm

re: #222 Alouette

You made me cry, Hoosier."Lay your burden on the Lord, and He will provide for your needs." That is exactly how I should think, then I won't feel so abandoned.

I have a business (not doing too well right now) and a non-profit foundation that depends on revenue from the business, and donations from interested users.

My dear friend..I will pray for you tonight...I was abandoned as a baby and adopted from a foster home at 12 yrs.old from Firebaugh, California.
I know abandonment..I know emptiness...I will pray God brings you healing in your heart...

243 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:33:36pm
244 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:33:43pm

re: #237 Gus 802

Enter the URL into the Google search field. Then use the "cached" link.

There might be another way.

It didn't work.

245 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:34:03pm

I have a novel that I wrote about 10 years ago, I could never find a publisher for it, and it's sitting in the basement in a big package. After a while I decided that it sucked and should not see the light of day, but maybe I should publish it through lulu.com and sell it at the Zionist Mall.

I think that it's crap, but lots of crap gets published, and I don't think it's any more than that crap. It's about a Jewish immigrant from Russia who fights in the Civil War, kind of a Jewish and Yankee version of "Gone With the Wind."

How sucky does that sound to you?

246 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:34:45pm

re: #242 HoosierHoops

My dear friend..I will pray for you tonight...I was abandoned as a baby and adopted from a foster home at 12 yrs.old from Firebaugh, California.
I know abandonment..I know emptiness...I will pray God brings you healing in your heart...

{hoops}
You're good people.

247 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:35:51pm

re: #245 Alouette

I have a novel that I wrote about 10 years ago, I could never find a publisher for it, and it's sitting in the basement in a big package. After a while I decided that it sucked and should not see the light of day, but maybe I should publish it through lulu.com and sell it at the Zionist Mall.

I think that it's crap, but lots of crap gets published, and I don't think it's any more than that crap. It's about a Jewish immigrant from Russia who fights in the Civil War, kind of a Jewish and Yankee version of "Gone With the Wind."

How sucky does that sound to you?

Alouette - lulu.com doesn't print books until they're ordered.

So you just upload that thing and see what happens! There is no cost to you if it doesn't sell. If it does, though ...

248 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:36:21pm

re: #245 Alouette

I have a novel that I wrote about 10 years ago, I could never find a publisher for it, and it's sitting in the basement in a big package. After a while I decided that it sucked and should not see the light of day, but maybe I should publish it through lulu.com and sell it at the Zionist Mall.

I think that it's crap, but lots of crap gets published, and I don't think it's any more than that crap. It's about a Jewish immigrant from Russia who fights in the Civil War, kind of a Jewish and Yankee version of "Gone With the Wind."

How sucky does that sound to you?

Might be good. What battles does he fight in?

249 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:36:29pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

If you want to see blog wars, you should hear about the asshole who is taking what Charles posted about the National Geographic vid "What Henry Hudson saw in 1609" and uses it to call Charles a racist. He's an ally of Rodan, so I don't want to directly link. How do I do a Google cache again?

That would be this post:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

And only sheer desperation could make a person find racism in there.

250 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:37:25pm

re: #244 Dark_Falcon

It didn't work.

Now I'm curious. Name of the blog?

251 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:38:04pm

Think about what you think I can do to promote the Zionist Mall and the History Foundation and where to look for interested people who might want to contribute donations.

252 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:38:12pm

Sipping on an Ardbeg 10-year old (Yum!) and just dropping by to say Happy Birthday Kilgore! Many happy returns of the day. You have been an absolute rock on this board. The soul of a reasonable Conservative. As one of the more liberal lizards, you have no idea how much I appreciate you.

253 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:39:43pm

re: #245 Alouette

I think you should dust that novel off & shop it around.
Someone might decide they want to publish it.
Worth a try!

{{Alouette}}
Look up, my friend. Not down.

254 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:40:11pm

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

Might be good. What battles does he fight in?

Balls Bluff, The Richmond Campaign, Antietam. I got help from a bunch of reenactors in how to construct reallistic battle scenes.

255 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:42:21pm

re: #250 Gus 802

Now I'm curious. Name of the blog?

It's called "BITE ME! Comics". The guy who runs it normally uses recycled comic books to mock Charles (and some of us like Hoops, Killgore and especially Sharmuta). This time he's making a more direct attack. It nasty and baiting, as is all things from the pit that is "The Blogmocracy".

256 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:42:51pm

re: #251 Alouette

Think about what you think I can do to promote the Zionist Mall and the History Foundation and where to look for interested people who might want to contribute donations.

The History Foundation -lots of information there, you've obviously done a LOT of work putting that together.

I have to think there is a college or university somewhere that would be interested in moving that effort along in the form of a research grant or something. Maybe one located near where one of those battles were fought. Also, some universities have a university press that publishes things of interest.

257 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:43:09pm

re: #254 Alouette

Balls Bluff, The Richmond Campaign, Antietam. I got help from a bunch of reenactors in how to construct reallistic battle scenes.

Antietam only takes you to 1962. What happens there, if you don't mind me asking?

258 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:44:09pm

Are any lizards interested in reading excerpts? Please contact me using my blog's contact form.

259 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:44:56pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

Antietam only takes you to 1962. What happens there, if you don't mind me asking?

Well, the Kennedy administration is in the middle of its run...

260 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:45:31pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

It's called "BITE ME! Comics". The guy who runs it normally uses recycled comic books to mock Charles (and some of us like Hoops, Killgore and especially Sharmuta). This time he's making a more direct attack. It nasty and baiting, as is all things from the pit that is "The Blogmocracy".

OK, I found it and was able to create a cached link.

As I suspected it's pretty stupid considering the LGF article is based on a video regarding a Nat Geo special. I won't even bother linking to it since it's a colossal waste of time.

261 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:45:35pm

I have to go to sleep now. I'm very fatiqued. But think of some suggestions for me and we can think of something in the morning.

262 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:45:44pm

re: #259 austin_blue

"Ask not what the Union can do for you, but what you can do for the Union."

263 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:46:06pm

re: #262 laZardo

"Ask not what the Union can do for you, but what you can do for the Union."

Sweet!

264 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:46:09pm

How cool would it be if our planet had rings like Saturn?

Pretty Cool!

265 Racer X  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:47:04pm

re: #261 Alouette

I have to go to sleep now. I'm very fatiqued. But think of some suggestions for me and we can think of something in the morning.

Good night Alouette - stay positive!

266 Learned Mother of Zion  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:47:05pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

Antietam only takes you to 1962. 1862 What happens there, if you don't mind me asking?

267 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:47:55pm

re: #259 austin_blue

Well, the Kennedy administration is in the middle of its run...

1862.

PIMF

268 erraticsphinx  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:48:32pm

re: #260 Gus 802

Reading that post at the hater site was around 30 seconds of my life I will never get back.

269 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:49:01pm

re: #264 Racer X

Although you'd have a hard time getting satellites out given what Saturn's rings are made of.

270 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:49:16pm

re: #267 Dark_Falcon

1862.

PIMF

It's all cool. Had to gig ya.

;-)

271 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:50:50pm

re: #260 Gus 802

OK, I found it and was able to create a cached link.

As I suspected it's pretty stupid considering the LGF article is based on a video regarding a Nat Geo special. I won't even bother linking to it since it's a colossal waste of time.

Fair enough. I'll just leave them. Ultimately that site is just a little yapping Chihuahua: noisy but not able to actually hurt.

272 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:52:46pm

re: #271 Dark_Falcon

Fair enough. I'll just leave them. Ultimately that site is just a little yapping Chihuahua: noisy but not able to actually hurt.

Most are. That's why I don't post anywhere but here. I like this place. It's relevant.

273 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 8:54:40pm

re: #241 reine.de.tout

Good grief!

I have a sneaking suspicion that God has a lot more on his mind than whether or not the U.S. Health Care bill passes or not.

When tens of millions of Americans see what it costs and reflexively yell "Jesus Christ!!", that might get His attention, though.

274 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:00:37pm

re: #273 The Sanity Inspector

When tens of millions of Americans see what it costs and reflexively yell "Jesus Christ!!", that might get His attention, though.

Hmmm...Medicare is run with about 3% overhead. If that was expanded to the rest of the population, costs would decrease by a huge amount. The screaming about increased costs if there was a single payer system comes strictly from the health care industry.

Just like any good crime novel, job one is to follow the money. Motive. Method.
Opportunity.

275 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:01:51pm

re: #274 austin_blue

Hmmm...Medicare is run with about 3% overhead. If that was expanded to the rest of the population, costs would decrease by a huge amount. The screaming about increased costs if there was a single payer system comes strictly from the health care industry.

Wait, what?

276 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:03:01pm

re: #275 laZardo

Wait, what?

???

277 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:05:56pm
278 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:07:33pm

re: #276 austin_blue

I don't get how expanding a system will decrease its costs, assuming the overhead.

I took a look at that notorious survey that said the United States had the 37th best healthcare system in the world. If I recall, the European microstates - San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein and Vatican(?) - were in the top 10. #1 France is about the size of Texas.

Considering the United States can fit all the EU member states in its own boundaries, I can't see how expanding Medicare to fit the whole country would run without increasing costs. It might be more feasible though if the system were more state-based, allowing states more control over their own budgets.

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:08:54pm

re: #42 Gus 802

From the League of the South blog, Rebellion:


The 1950s in this context is a dog whistle for the pre-Civil Rights years of the 1960s.

I wonder if this person understands how culturally and racially diverse Texas is, or that they have, y'know, civil rights and tapas bars there now. For quite some time, actually.

280 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:11:03pm

re: #278 laZardo

I don't get how expanding a system will decrease its costs, assuming the overhead.

I took a look at that notorious survey that said the United States had the 37th best healthcare system in the world. If I recall, the European microstates - San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein and Vatican(?) - were in the top 10. #1 France is about the size of Texas.

Considering the United States can fit all the EU member states in its own boundaries, I can't see how expanding Medicare to fit the whole country would run without increasing costs. It might be more feasible though if the system were more state-based, allowing states more control over their own budgets.

Non-profit based system.

281 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:12:12pm

re: #81 Gus 802

OT

They found the "Arbeit macht frei" sign.

Cut in three pieces.

5 suspects arrested.

Any insight into what the hell they wanted it for?

282 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:13:21pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder if this person understands how culturally and racially diverse Texas is, or that they have, y'know, civil rights and tapas bars there now. For quite some time, actually.

I doubt they do. They probably think that the anglo-saxons sprouted from the Texas soil during the "dawn of man." They no doubt fail to acknowledge or at least respect that Texas was one a Spanish colony and a part of the vast expanse of New Spain.

Texas will never secede. That's just a fantasy being thrown about by the Dominionist crackpots.

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:14:36pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

I'm also fascinated by the British politeness mostly because I don't really understand it. If you ask a British waiter for something they don't have they'll tell you "no" using 5 syllables while making a face that indicates sorrow, contempt, pity and joy.

Depends a lot on class. Working-class Brits have what I would consider normal good manners. The upper crust is almost breathtakingly rude. There's a lot of in between in between.

284 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:14:44pm

re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist

Any insight into what the hell they wanted it for?

None that I saw. The five being held are "between the ages of 25 and 39."

285 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:14:45pm

re: #277 Racer X

I wonder what Jesus would say about that classic WWI tune "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition"?

Oh, and nice broad brush painting all Muslims as fanatics. Ha ha! So funny...

286 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:16:43pm

re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist

Did you see it's "Troutmas day"
AKA Killgore Trouts birthday!

287 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:17:46pm

re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist

Any insight into what the hell they wanted it for?

Also. I suspect it was definitely motivated by hate. If they stole it to re-sell in the underground WWII collectors market (which something that was mentioned in a few news articles) they wouldn't have cut it in three.

288 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:19:41pm

re: #162 iceweasel

Exactly, so it can be especially difficult for Americans to tell the difference. I suspect this is one of the reasons why Brits often claim that Americans don't understand irony. That isn't true at all, but some of them like to pretend so. (it'd be more accurate to say that many Brits do not understand, or are made uncomfortable by, American niceness. Niceness is the only way I can describe it: the quality of openness and friendliness and the way two American strangers will talk to each other.

A couple of years ago I was leaving London for what I knew would be at least two years. I was on the plane feeling very sad about it. Then my seatmate turned out to be an American. Within about ten minutes I (and the whole plane) knew about her ex boyfriend, her family's difficulty in coming to terms with her bisexuality, and some scandal at her school. The Brits around us were all listening in hushed and horrified-- and envious-- silence. They simultaneously crave the American level of openness even while they pretend to be appalled by it. This is also one reason why many Americans find England cold and unfriendly, in comparison.

Anyway, I had been feeling sad about leaving, and then after she sat down I thought-- "Yes, I'm on my way home. Almost there."

Speaking of which...whar's ma laddie? :-)

My experience has been that most Brits are unable to tell when an American is being ironic, snide, or snarky. This leads to the idea that we we are the world's biggest saps. And it often runs in reverse.

I was told before going to grad school in England that I'd be more comfortable with the German students. That seemed weird, until I got there, and it was entirely true. They got my jokes, and I theirs. Meanwhile, the English students insisted that neither group had a sophisticated sense of humor.

289 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:20:24pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder if this person understands how culturally and racially diverse Texas is, or that they have, y'know, civil rights and tapas bars there now. For quite some time, actually.

Sushi, too. Really good sushi:

[Link: www.tripadvisor.com...]

290 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:21:25pm

re: #280 austin_blue

Just because they don't have a profit motive doesn't mean it doesn't 'cost'.

Granted, I do think these horror stories about, say, Britain's NHS are more indicative that a system that has been around for more than half a century needs serious reforms to ensure it focuses more on care than bureaucracy.

I'm just suspicious that a federally-managed single-payer system managing the entire country will end up tangled in bureaucracy quicker given the sheer size and networks to manage. It's almost as if you're switching one healthcare corporation for another.

291 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:22:53pm

re: #288 SanFranciscoZionist

My experience has been that most Brits are unable to tell when an American is being ironic, snide, or snarky. This leads to the idea that we we are the world's biggest saps. And it often runs in reverse.

I was told before going to grad school in England that I'd be more comfortable with the German students. That seemed weird, until I got there, and it was entirely true. They got my jokes, and I theirs. Meanwhile, the English students insisted that neither group had a sophisticated sense of humor.

Maybe it's a bleed-over of German sensibilities. There are more Americans of German extraction than of English blood.

292 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:23:15pm

re: #287 Gus 802

Also. I suspect it was definitely motivated by hate. If they stole it to re-sell in the underground WWII collectors market (which something that was mentioned in a few news articles) they wouldn't have cut it in three.

Could be that cutting it in three had to do with some attempt to conceal it or smuggle it, in the same way that a smuggled painting would be cut from its frame.

That being said, there's no question that stealing it in the first place is motivated by hate, even if they were intending to profit from it.

293 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:23:20pm

re: #274 austin_blue

You're assuming that the Health Care Providers could afford to be in business, if 100% reimbursed at Medicare rates. I don't think that is possible.

294 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:23:36pm

Texas Secession

Day 1 - Texas secedes.

Day 2 - Austin, Dallas/Ft. Worth, and Houston build fence around city limits and repatriates with the United States.

295 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:23:38pm

re: #288 SanFranciscoZionist

My experience has been that most Brits are unable to tell when an American is being ironic, snide, or snarky. This leads to the idea that we we are the world's biggest saps. And it often runs in reverse.

I was told before going to grad school in England that I'd be more comfortable with the German students. That seemed weird, until I got there, and it was entirely true. They got my jokes, and I theirs. Meanwhile, the English students insisted that neither group had a sophisticated sense of humor.

No one can be as calculatedly rude as the British which amazes the Americans, who do not understand studied insult and can only offer abuse as a substitute.
-- Paul Gallico, _New York Times_, 14 Jan 1962

296 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:24:30pm

re: #293 Floral Giraffe

You're assuming that the Health Care Providers could afford to be in business, if 100% reimbursed at Medicare rates. I don't think that is possible.

Concur.

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:24:43pm

re: #231 Charles

Yep, this Christmas season, Republicans are praying for their political opponents to die. Or at least, get very sick.

Merry GOP Christmas!

Or, you know, get stuck in an elevator until after the vote...

298 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:25:05pm

re: #295 The Sanity Inspector

No one can be as calculatedly rude as the British which amazes the Americans, who do not understand studied insult and can only offer abuse as a substitute.
-- Paul Gallico, _New York Times_, 14 Jan 1962

I am insulted by the studied insult that I do not understand studied insult. /

299 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:25:10pm

re: #289 austin_blue

Sushi, too. Really good sushi:

[Link: www.tripadvisor.com...]

And if anyone's still boycotting French wine...

300 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:25:40pm

re: #292 iceweasel

Could be that cutting it in three had to do with some attempt to conceal it or smuggle it, in the same way that a smuggled painting would be cut from its frame.

That being said, there's no question that stealing it in the first place is motivated by hate, even if they were intending to profit from it.

Could be that too. Just postulating. The police haven't released any information on the 5 being held.

301 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:25:58pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

If you want to see blog wars, you should hear about the asshole who is taking what Charles posted about the National Geographic vid "What Henry Hudson saw in 1609" and uses it to call Charles a racist. He's an ally of Rodan, so I don't want to directly link. How do I do a Google cache again?

Are they STILL on about that? What is so offensive about the news that New York City didn't always used to be there? They act like the crazier Palestinian activists, as though real history was some kind of personal affront.

302 ED 209  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:27:14pm

re: #298 iceweasel

I am insulted by the studied insult that I do not understand studied insult. /

I knew you would be./

303 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:27:39pm

re: #290 laZardo

Just because they don't have a profit motive doesn't mean it doesn't 'cost'.

Granted, I do think these horror stories about, say, Britain's NHS are more indicative that a system that has been around for more than half a century needs serious reforms to ensure it focuses more on care than bureaucracy.

I'm just suspicious that a federally-managed single-payer system managing the entire country will end up tangled in bureaucracy quicker given the sheer size and networks to manage. It's almost as if you're switching one healthcare corporation for another.

With the bill coming out of the Senate, you're right. We'll need to take a close look at what comes out of committee. But capitalism and health care efficiencies do not not necessarily meld. In 1998, there were as many MRI machines in Houston as there were in all of Canada. Use 'em or lose money.

304 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:28:42pm

re: #245 Alouette

I have a novel that I wrote about 10 years ago, I could never find a publisher for it, and it's sitting in the basement in a big package. After a while I decided that it sucked and should not see the light of day, but maybe I should publish it through lulu.com and sell it at the Zionist Mall.

I think that it's crap, but lots of crap gets published, and I don't think it's any more than that crap. It's about a Jewish immigrant from Russia who fights in the Civil War, kind of a Jewish and Yankee version of "Gone With the Wind."

How sucky does that sound to you?

I'd read it.

305 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:28:55pm

re: #287 Gus 802

Also. I suspect it was definitely motivated by hate. If they stole it to re-sell in the underground WWII collectors market (which something that was mentioned in a few news articles) they wouldn't have cut it in three.

It would make for easier shipping though...or for shipping to three different buyers. One piece each for "Arbeit," "Macht" and "Frei."

306 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:29:16pm

re: #301 SanFranciscoZionist

Are they STILL on about that? What is so offensive about the news that New York City didn't always used to be there? They act like the crazier Palestinian activists, as though real history was some kind of personal affront.

Yep. A stalker affiliate used what Charles posted to attack Charles as a racist. It was lame and, as Gus reminded me, not really worthy of our attention. Just stalkers going nuts about something.

307 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:29:58pm

Semi-OT: Does the American South have a high proportion of people of Scots extract? Anyone here a linguist or know anything about the development of the southern accent in the US?

I ask because I've started to notice that there are some similarities in accent. It's very difficult to quantify--nothing overt at all, something about the rhythms of speech, certain inflections. The similarity sort of snuck up on me while I was in Scotland. Is there some basis for this in reality or is it some kind of aural hallucination on my part?

308 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:30:01pm

re: #294 Gus 802

Texas Secession

Day 1 - Texas secedes.

Day 2 - Austin, Dallas/Ft. Worth, and Houston build fences around their city limits and repatriates with the United States.

Day 3 - With the loss of the US Navy and US Military, the Mexican Navy begins assault and subsequent invasion of Texas.

Day 4 - Texas becomes a state of Mexico.

Day 5 - The Republic of Texas de Mexico becomes a Spanish (language) only state.

//

309 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:30:21pm

Not even going to make it to the music thread this evening. 'Night, all.

310 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:31:34pm

re: #294 Gus 802

Texas Secession

Day 1 - Texas secedes.

Day 2 - Austin, Dallas/Ft. Worth, and Houston build fence around city limits and repatriates with the United States.

Actually, Austin would immediately apply to be the foreign embassy site for the US.

Not just a building, the entire city. We are the blue pimple in Central Texas.

311 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:33:31pm

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

Maybe it's a bleed-over of German sensibilities. There are more Americans of German extraction than of English blood.

That's my theory. I mean, the Germans had all this weird being-German-after-the-war stuff, and modern European weirdness, but the basic rules about what's funny, and how you tell a joke, and what you can discuss in polite company are more similar.

312 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:33:47pm

re: #278 laZardo

I don't get how expanding a system will decrease its costs, assuming the overhead.
. . .
Considering the United States can fit all the EU member states in its own boundaries, I can't see how expanding Medicare to fit the whole country would run without increasing costs. It might be more feasible though if the system were more state-based, allowing states more control over their own budgets.

YES, yes, yes.
Like this.

313 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:33:49pm

re: #307 iceweasel

Semi-OT: Does the American South have a high proportion of people of Scots extract? Anyone here a linguist or know anything about the development of the southern accent in the US?

I ask because I've started to notice that there are some similarities in accent. It's very difficult to quantify--nothing overt at all, something about the rhythms of speech, certain inflections. The similarity sort of snuck up on me while I was in Scotland. Is there some basis for this in reality or is it some kind of aural hallucination on my part?

They have a Wiki entry on that.

Southern American English

314 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:35:46pm

re: #307 iceweasel

Semi-OT: Does the American South have a high proportion of people of Scots extract? Anyone here a linguist or know anything about the development of the southern accent in the US?

I ask because I've started to notice that there are some similarities in accent. It's very difficult to quantify--nothing overt at all, something about the rhythms of speech, certain inflections. The similarity sort of snuck up on me while I was in Scotland. Is there some basis for this in reality or is it some kind of aural hallucination on my part?

Lots of Scots went to the South, yes.

315 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:35:55pm

re: #310 austin_blue

Actually, Austin would immediately apply to be the foreign embassy site for the US.

Not just a building, the entire city. We are the blue pimple in Central Texas.

Yep. It would be like West Berlin.

316 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:36:39pm

re: #315 Gus 802

Yep. It would be like West Berlin.

Exactly.

317 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:36:48pm

re: #313 Gus 802

They have a Wiki entry on that.

Southern American English

Bingo-- thank you!

Southern dialects substantially originated from immigrants from the British Isles who moved to the South in the 17th and 18th centuries. The South was predominantly settled by immigrants from the West Country[citation needed] in the southwest of England, the dialects of which have similarities to the Southern US dialects. Settlement also included large numbers of Protestants from Ulster, Ireland, and from Scotland.


Ok, so, not some kind of auditory hallucination at all. Thanks!

318 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:37:58pm

re: #317 iceweasel

Ok, so, not some kind of auditory hallucination at all. Thanks!

I hear a lot of "French" sometimes but that's probably people from Louisiana.

Right Reine? ;)

319 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:38:02pm

re: #317 iceweasel

Ok, so, not some kind of auditory hallucination at all. Thanks!

Read some of Sharyn McCrumb's novels for a bit of a romantic look at the South's Scottish heritage.

Oh, and, I love the new avatar.

320 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:38:25pm

re: #307 iceweasel

Semi-OT: Does the American South have a high proportion of people of Scots extract? Anyone here a linguist or know anything about the development of the southern accent in the US?

The bulk of the South's original white population are of English/Scotch/Irish extraction, excepting Florida & New Orleans. I think I remember reading somewhere that the accents found in Appalachia were supposed to be fossil remnants of English speech in colonial times.

I ask because I've started to notice that there are some similarities in accent. It's very difficult to quantify--nothing overt at all, something about the rhythms of speech, certain inflections. The similarity sort of snuck up on me while I was in Scotland. Is there some basis for this in reality or is it some kind of aural hallucination on my part?

There may well be something to it, a lingering touch of the Auld Sod in present day speech. I lost most of my accent over the years, but from time to time some people guess that I'm English.

321 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:42:01pm

re: #318 Gus 802

I hear a lot of "French" sometimes but that's probably people from Louisiana.

Right Reine? ;)

right-o!

322 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:42:20pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

With hellaciosly bad Christmas muzak playing non-stop!
LOLOL!

323 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:43:15pm

re: #303 austin_blue

With the bill coming out of the Senate, you're right. We'll need to take a close look at what comes out of committee. But capitalism and health care efficiencies do not not necessarily meld. In 1998, there were as many MRI machines in Houston as there were in all of Canada. Use 'em or lose money.

Of course, if I recall Houston is one of America's 10 Fattest Cities. They'd need a lot of machines there for a reason.

I suppose that'd bring me to my OTHER qualm about single-payer in America...that it's not exactly going to bring healthier habits. Healthcare is supposed to be there for the stuff you can't avoid.

324 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:43:29pm

re: #322 Floral Giraffe

With hellaciosly bad Christmas muzak playing non-stop!
LOLOL!

I can tell you that such muzak tracks do exsist and hearing them for hours on end is quite painful.

325 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:44:03pm

This is the latest on the Auschwitz gate sign:

The police refused to divulge any details of the circumstances in which the sign was found or to speculate on the motive of the perpetrators. They were expected to disclose more at a news conference in Krakow planned for 0800 GMT (3 am EST) Monday.

326 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:44:04pm

re: #319 SanFranciscoZionist

Read some of Sharyn McCrumb's novels for a bit of a romantic look at the South's Scottish heritage.

Oh, and, I love the new avatar.

Cool-- checking her out on Amazon now. And thanks! It's just for the next week or so. :-)

re: #320 The Sanity Inspector

I knew my feckless, lazy, non-googling ways wouldn't matter because some lizard here would have the scoop with interesting detail. thanks!

327 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:45:04pm

re: #322 Floral Giraffe

With hellaciosly bad Christmas muzak playing non-stop!
LOLOL!

"Senator Hutzenclutz was escorted from the stalled elevator in his DC apartment building late Saturday morning, dehydrated and disoriented, after being subjected to 452 renditions of "Holly Jolly Christmas", and 346 repetitions of "The Little Drummer Boy". The 56-year-old Democrat is resting in seclusion."

328 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:45:22pm

re: #307 iceweasel

Check out Jim Webb's book "Born Fighting" It's about the Scotch-Irish influence in the Appalachian area. I have it but haven't had a chance to read it yet. My mom's family is of that exact extraction, being from the hills of WV.

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:46:12pm

re: #323 laZardo

Of course, if I recall Houston is one of America's 10 Fattest Cities. They'd need a lot of machines there for a reason.

I suppose that'd bring me to my OTHER qualm about single-payer in America...that it's not exactly going to bring healthier habits. Healthcare is supposed to be there for the stuff you can't avoid.

If Americans have less healthy habits that we're planning to bring out if and when we ever get single payer, they must be doozies. I mean, given what we're up to right now.

330 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:46:33pm

re: #313 Gus 802

I have always loved the word Dipthong. Still don't know what it means. And, it's NOT a stupid girls undies. Great word, though!

331 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:46:51pm

re: #328 Irenicum

Here's the Amazon link to Born Fighting.

332 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:47:40pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

Bleeding ears?
I'm so sorry to hear that!
It'll be over soon!
{{DF}}

333 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:48:00pm

re: #328 Irenicum

Check out Jim Webb's book "Born Fighting" It's about the Scotch-Irish influence in the Appalachian area. I have it but haven't had a chance to read it yet. My mom's family is of that exact extraction, being from the hills of WV.

Excellent-- I had never heard of it. Thanks!

334 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:48:25pm

re: #330 Floral Giraffe

I have always loved the word Dipthong. Still don't know what it means. And, it's NOT a stupid girls undies. Great word, though!

To the Wiki machine:


In phonetics, a diphthong, pronounced /ˈdɪf.θɒŋ/ or /ˈdɪp.θɒŋ/, (also gliding vowel) (from Greek δίφθογγος, diphthongos, literally "two sounds" or "two tones") is a contour vowel—that is, a unitary vowel that changes quality during its pronunciation, or "glides", with a smooth movement of the tongue from one articulation to another, as in the English words eye, boy, and cow. This contrasts with "pure" vowels, or monophthongs, where the tongue is held still, as in the English word papa.

It's like a slide or bending a note.

335 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:48:35pm

Hello...fellows...hope everyone is doing well. Not that you probably care to know, but I have family visiting, really nice (although it's only day 1) and have only had a few moments to check in.

But I wanted to say to Iceweasel - I'm a newbie, but found yours and Jimmah's story so touching, and knowing how your date is fast approaching, have to ask...HOW ARE YOU DOING???

336 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:48:41pm

re: #327 SanFranciscoZionist

With an ice bag on his head!
And vicodan inside it!

337 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:52:20pm

Good night all. One more day of work and then crossing the pond for my sister-in-law's long awaited wedding to an original Silly Wizard. I will be delivering one of the readings from a 12th Century pulpit in the local village church. And if you saw Hot Fuzz, you know what Leighton Buzzard looks like.

Stay scaly, my sweets, I'll be posting from the UK later in the week.

338 Mark Pennington  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:52:30pm

I read the Patterico piece days ago and just read Barrett Brown’s piece.
I think that McCain knows he doesn't have to explain anything and won't be challenged from anyone on the right. I also believe that they are very aware he is a white supremacist. They just do not care. That is where the far right is currently...in bed with the monsters.

339 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:53:28pm

re: #336 Floral Giraffe

I could use that right about now. I've had a nasty headache (very frequent occurrence) and not so fun anxiety today also.

340 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:54:14pm

re: #337 austin_blue

Cool!
Have a safe trip.
And, play nicely!

341 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:54:29pm

re: #337 austin_blue

Sounds wonderful! Have a great time!

342 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:55:17pm

re: #339 Irenicum

Frozen bag of peas substitutes nicely for an ice bag...
When in need.
Feel better!

343 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:55:28pm

re: #332 Floral Giraffe

Bleeding ears?
I'm so sorry to hear that!
It'll be over soon!
{{DF}}

Not this year. The muzak is not very audible in my current storem and its not all Christmas music either. I was referring to 2006 at Officemax. Painful, but in the past. This is a better year for me, workwise.

344 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:56:35pm

re: #335 Stanley Sea

Hello...fellows...hope everyone is doing well. Not that you probably care to know, but I have family visiting, really nice (although it's only day 1) and have only had a few moments to check in.

But I wanted to say to Iceweasel - I'm a newbie, but found yours and Jimmah's story so touching, and knowing how your date is fast approaching, have to ask...HOW ARE YOU DOING???

hey Stanley! Thanks for asking!
We're great!!! He's en route to an airport right now and will be arriving in the US tomorrow. Wedding soon now!
To be honest, we're both scared out of our minds that something horrible will happen at the last minute. Like trouble with immigration, or something like that...there's a load of paperwork to negotiate and a lot involved in moving, etc. But so far all is extremely good!
I hope you're having a wonderful time with your family and are having a terrific holiday. :-)

345 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:56:59pm

re: #342 Floral Giraffe

I've done the bag of peas thing before. It works! Thanks. I just have a lot on my plate and very little time to get it all done.

346 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:57:40pm

re: #337 austin_blue

Good night all. One more day of work and then crossing the pond for my sister-in-law's long awaited wedding to an original Silly Wizard. I will be delivering one of the readings from a 12th Century pulpit in the local village church. And if you saw Hot Fuzz, you know what Leighton Buzzard looks like.

Stay scaly, my sweets, I'll be posting from the UK later in the week.

Have a fantastic time! All the best to you and yours!

347 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:57:55pm

Can I just say I love this place?

348 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:59:04pm

re: #338 beekiller

I read the Patterico piece days ago and just read Barrett Brown’s piece.
I think that McCain knows he doesn't have to explain anything and won't be challenged from anyone on the right. I also believe that they are very aware he is a white supremacist. They just do not care. That is where the far right is currently...in bed with the monsters.

I agree -- they know and they don't care.

For another example, try to find a single right wing blogger who has expressed even mild disapproval about the John Birch Society being a sponsor of CPAC. You won't. They don't care about that either.

That's why I had to make a public break. I don't want anything to do with any of these people.

349 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:59:24pm

re: #344 iceweasel

Thanks for answering!!!
Everything will work out. If you keep a smile on you'll be amazed at what you can deal with. Enjoy every single moment, it's the one of the most wonderful events you will experience, from my recollection!!

350 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:00:55pm

re: #348 Charles

It amazes and dismays me how this utter nonsense has become mainstreamed.

351 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:01:55pm

re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist

It probably won't be intentional. I just don't see the incentive for Americans to take the initiative get healthier (e.g. give up smoking) once they know they have a system that will ostensibly do that for them.

352 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:02:57pm

re: #350 Irenicum

This is the true face of conservatism, after all. It's the primary reason why the American political spectrum is centered toward the right.

353 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:04:48pm

Gotta sign off. Over and out.

354 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:05:46pm

re: #351 laZardo

It probably won't be intentional. I just don't see the incentive for Americans to take the initiative get healthier (e.g. give up smoking) once they know they have a system that will ostensibly do that for them.

I don't think that's actually the driver, but since I think single payer is a long ways away, it's a very abstract discussion for now...

And speaking of health, I have a cold. Feh.

355 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:08:19pm

re: #348 Charles

Stupid is, as stupid does.
I think you're correct to take a break form the current "conservatives".
I wish there were a "party of rationalists" but then, they'd probably all be kooks too!

356 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:09:24pm

re: #354 SanFranciscoZionist

Pocket packs of Kleenex & lots of hot tea with honey & lemon for you!
Feel better!

357 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:09:54pm

re: #353 Stanley Sea

Roger Wilco!

358 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:11:37pm

Brb lunch. O:

359 Bagua  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:14:30pm

Happy Turtle Song


- Hot Tuna
360 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:16:38pm

re: #356 Floral Giraffe

Pocket packs of Kleenex & lots of hot tea with honey & lemon for you!
Feel better!

Thanks. Have been sleeping pretty much nonstop.

361 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:17:18pm

re: #355 Floral Giraffe

We seem to be living in a cultural milieu where true rationality has been pushed out of the way by intense partisanship and nutter conspiracy theories. And this is true on both the left and right, though I do think the current disease is more deadly. I'm not sure what it will take to get us as a culture back on track to a reasonable consensus, but more reasonable voices need to speak up. It's just too damn dangerous to remain silent.

362 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:19:04pm

Roger Roger.

363 It's a cookbook!  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:21:07pm

re: #361 Irenicum

I blame the 'net. I think its positives outweigh its negatives, but the intertubes give everyone a voice. No, it's not the only factor, but I think it's a big one.

364 Cheechako  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:22:04pm

Anyone care to guess what the vote was on the Health Care Bill?

365 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:22:50pm

re: #363 JasonA

Good point. And the ability to speak from anonymity has released a torrent of thought that would normally never fly in polite company. That has definitely been a contributing factor in mainstreaming extremism.

366 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:24:00pm

re: #364 Cheechako

Anyone care to guess what the vote was on the Health Care Bill?

I cheated and looked...

367 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:24:40pm

re: #338 beekiller

I read the Patterico piece days ago and just read Barrett Brown’s piece.
I think that McCain knows he doesn't have to explain anything and won't be challenged from anyone on the right. I also believe that they are very aware he is a white supremacist. They just do not care. That is where the far right is currently...in bed with the monsters.

What we've been seeing on the right is the culmination of years of the mainstreaming of hate speech and extremist rhetoric. Inflammatory 'jokes' like Coulter's claim that we need to blow up the NYT building, or put poison in justice souter's creme brulee, or her not-kidding-at-all comment that "We need to execute John Walker Lindh, in order to physically intimidate liberals and make them realise they can be killed too."
It became common speech for critics of the Bush admin or the war to be called unamerican and called traitors (and we all know what the penalty for treason is).
The inevitable result of the mainstreaming of this way of thinking is that we now have people asserting that the POTUS is a literal traitor (that is the meaning behind bow-gate and the seekrit muslim talk) and is not an American citizen at all. And advocating a violent revolution. This is a direct extension and exaggeration of those old claims. It's the result of the lowest common denominator on the right having been nutured on that rhetoric for years. Sure, people like Coulter were doing it for shock value and to sell books. But is it really so surprising now to see that some -- like the average HotAir commentator-- always took that talk quite literally, when she's speaking at CPAC and given airtime and writing best selling books?

In the rightwing blogosphere --and in the GOP more generally -- we also have a kind of codification of reagan's old 11th commandment, 'thou shalt not attack a fellow republican". What once was a call for party unity now means it's a sin to call out a fellow republican for anything-- racism, bigotry, anything at all. That's why Charles is considered an apostate. They hate him for being right and for 'breaking the rules'.
(the converse of Reagan's 11th commandment, which they have invented and he wouldn't recognise, is "thou must always, always disagree with all democrats-- even when they're right." That's why we have the Party of No now.)
I have no idea when any of this will end, or what will happen.

368 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:25:00pm

I'm still interested in this odd example of Henry Tudor that Stacy McCain uses. HENRY TUDOR?

369 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:25:33pm

The Senate has...

370 Bagua  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:25:40pm

re: #364 Cheechako

Anyone care to guess what the vote was on the Health Care Bill?

Sad to see such trans-formative legislation pass on a completely partisan basis.

371 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:28:10pm

re: #361 Irenicum

I just started reading the Pulitzer Prize winning book "Battle Cry Of Freedom The Civil War Era" And the author is building up all of the tensions ( slavery was a big one) that led to this war. Which, BTW, I didn't know, cost more lives, than the total of those lost in all other wars the country has fought, ADDED TOGETHER.

I like American HIstory. I wish my education had been a lot more solid in it. But, I'm enjoying learning it now!

372 Cheechako  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:28:58pm

I expect many Members of the House are going to be very upset with the exemption bribe deal that Nebraska got.

373 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:29:01pm

re: #366 Gus 802

WHAT WAS IT???

374 Mark Pennington  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:29:01pm

re: #367 iceweasel

What we've been seeing on the right is the culmination of years of the mainstreaming of hate speech and extremist rhetoric. Inflammatory 'jokes' like Coulter's claim that we need to blow up the NYT building, or put poison in justice souter's creme brulee, or her not-kidding-at-all comment that "We need to execute John Walker Lindh, in order to physically intimidate liberals and make them realise they can be killed too."
It became common speech for critics of the Bush admin or the war to be called unamerican and called traitors (and we all know what the penalty for treason is).
The inevitable result of the mainstreaming of this way of thinking is that we now have people asserting that the POTUS is a literal traitor (that is the meaning behind bow-gate and the seekrit muslim talk) and is not an American citizen at all. And advocating a violent revolution. This is a direct extension and exaggeration of those old claims. It's the result of the lowest common denominator on the right having been nutured on that rhetoric for years. Sure, people like Coulter were doing it for shock value and to sell books. But is it really so surprising now to see that some -- like the average HotAir commentator-- always took that talk quite literally, when she's speaking at CPAC and given airtime and writing best selling books?

In the rightwing blogosphere --and in the GOP more generally -- we also have a kind of codification of reagan's old 11th commandment, 'thou shalt not attack a fellow republican". What once was a call for party unity now means it's a sin to call out a fellow republican for anything-- racism, bigotry, anything at all. That's why Charles is considered an apostate. They hate him for being right and for 'breaking the rules'.
(the converse of Reagan's 11th commandment, which they have invented and he wouldn't recognise, is "thou must always, always disagree with all democrats-- even when they're right." That's why we have the Party of No now.)
I have no idea when any of this will end, or what will happen.

I don't see how they can get clean again and redeem themselves later.

375 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:29:19pm

re: #373 Floral Giraffe

WHAT WAS IT???

Passed

60-40

376 Bagua  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:30:51pm

re: #372 Cheechako

I expect many Members of the House are going to be very upset with the exemption bribe deal that Nebraska got.

Upset that they didn't also receive bribes, they all have their noses in the trough to some degree.

377 Cheechako  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:33:13pm

When this Health Care Bill is completed it's going to smell like gangrene.

378 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:33:14pm

re: #367 iceweasel

What we've been seeing on the right is the culmination of years of the mainstreaming of hate speech and extremist rhetoric. Inflammatory 'jokes' like Coulter's claim that we need to blow up the NYT building, or put poison in justice souter's creme brulee, or her not-kidding-at-all comment that "We need to execute John Walker Lindh, in order to physically intimidate liberals and make them realise they can be killed too."

That woman really is scum.

I just have to say it once in a while.

379 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:33:55pm

re: #375 Gus 802

Passed

60-40

Still, it did pass without a public option. Still a bad bill, but no longer dreadful. It's a acceptable outcome.

380 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:34:12pm

re: #375 Gus 802

Heh. 60.
I kinda sorta really want to see their sorry butts stuck in Washington for the holiday. But, I know it's not going to happen. Still, a whopper of a snowstorm, yes another one, well, I can hope, can't I?

Better yet, I want the elected officials to have to partake of the "government option" on health care. Please, please, please?

SIGH.
F.A.N.T.A.S.Y.

381 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:35:30pm

re: #379 Dark_Falcon

Still, it did pass without a public option. Still a bad bill, but no longer dreadful. It's a acceptable outcome.

I'm not happy with how they got the votes.

382 Mark Pennington  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:35:39pm

re: #375 Gus 802

Passed

60-40

Final passage is likely on Christmas Eve...according to the monotone man speaking on C-Span.

383 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:36:14pm

re: #365 Irenicum

Good point. And the ability to speak from anonymity has released a torrent of thought that would normally never fly in polite company. That has definitely been a contributing factor in mainstreaming extremism.

yes. Plus the ability for people who never otherwise would have found each other to connect. Maybe you were the crazy guy alone in his mom's basement before who had weird ideas about the gubbmint. Now you're one of many crazy guys posting on HotAir, egging each other on to be ever more extreme.

What was that book by Instapundit? An Army of Davids? ---More like an Army of Dangerous Dipshits.

384 Bagua  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:37:04pm

re: #379 Dark_Falcon

Still, it did pass without a public option. Still a bad bill, but no longer dreadful. It's a acceptable outcome.

Disagree, passing a bad bill is never an acceptable outcome.

385 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:39:12pm

re: #380 Floral Giraffe

Heh. 60.
I kinda sorta really want to see their sorry butts stuck in Washington for the holiday. But, I know it's not going to happen. Still, a whopper of a snowstorm, yes another one, well, I can hope, can't I?

Better yet, I want the elected officials to have to partake of the "government option" on health care. Please, please, please?

SIGH.
F.A.N.T.A.S.Y.

No public option from what I understand.

386 It's a cookbook!  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:39:42pm

re: #383 iceweasel

Someone here had some insight the other day. These people, the vast majority of them, don't have the stones to do these things themselves. They're just trying to use the Tim McVeigh's of the world to do their dirty work.

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:43:31pm

re: #386 JasonA

Someone here had some insight the other day. These people, the vast majority of them, don't have the stones to do these things themselves. They're just trying to use the Tim McVeigh's of the world to do their dirty work.

Incite the vigilantes. This is what always comes to mind for me.

388 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:44:06pm

The blog are going to be crazy this morning.

389 Bagua  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:44:09pm

re: #385 Gus 802

No public option from what I understand.

Means nothing, the goal is to create the beast, when it next comes time to "fix" or "reform" it there will be time to add the public option.

In the future smiling men in Washington will promise this and oppose that, but they will increasingly be making the decisions on health care from now on.

390 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:44:29pm

re: #388 Gus 802

The blog blogs are going to be crazy this morning.

Blogs...plural...PIMF

391 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:46:22pm

Well, g'nite gang. Sleep well y'all and have a pleasant tomorrow.

392 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:47:29pm

re: #388 Gus 802

The blog are going to be crazy this morning.

prediction: the reaction from the right will be to present this as something 'rushed through' and passed in the dead of night to hide something-- despite the fact that health care reform was talked about all throughout the presidential campaign (by both candidates), this has been going on for months, and the delays and obstructions have been due to republican stonewalling (and occasionally Dems acting out).

The black helicopter types are going to completely lose it.

393 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:47:54pm

re: #389 Bagua

Means nothing, the goal is to create the beast, when it next comes time to "fix" or "reform" it there will be time to add the public option.

In the future smiling men in Washington will promise this and oppose that, but they will increasingly be making the decisions on health care from now on.

Understood. I don't have any comment on the legislation. I still don't like the way they bought the final 60 votes. Also, lobbying interests spent I think approximately 300 million in this legislation thus far. The pharmaceutical companies got their way and so did a lot of hospital "interests."

394 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:49:04pm

re: #384 Bagua

Disagree, passing a bad bill is never an acceptable outcome.

You've got a point, but some bad bill was likely to pass. The bill that passed contains no public option, and does not fund abortion with tax dollars. For me, that's tolerable and that's all I really thought we could get.

395 It's a cookbook!  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:49:07pm

re: #388 Gus 802

The blog are going to be crazy this morning.

They still have outrage left?

396 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:49:15pm

re: #392 iceweasel

prediction: the reaction from the right will be to present this as something 'rushed through' and passed in the dead of night to hide something-- despite the fact that health care reform was talked about all throughout the presidential campaign (by both candidates), this has been going on for months, and the delays and obstructions have been due to republican stonewalling (and occasionally Dems acting out).

The black helicopter types are going to completely lose it.

True. It's been in the works almost all year. And, there was a wide range of changes made from different sectors.

397 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:50:05pm

re: #395 JasonA

They still have outrage left?

It's like interest. The more you have, the more you get.

398 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:50:21pm

re: #392 iceweasel

Yep! They're sharpening their pitchforks as we speak, or type!

399 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:50:50pm

re: #392 iceweasel

prediction: the reaction from the right will be to present this as something 'rushed through' and passed in the dead of night to hide something-- despite the fact that health care reform was talked about all throughout the presidential campaign (by both candidates), this has been going on for months, and the delays and obstructions have been due to republican stonewalling (and occasionally Dems acting out).

The black helicopter types are going to completely lose it.

I fear you're right ice, but I think we both hope you're wrong.

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:50:53pm

re: #392 iceweasel

prediction: the reaction from the right will be to present this as something 'rushed through' and passed in the dead of night to hide something-- despite the fact that health care reform was talked about all throughout the presidential campaign (by both candidates), this has been going on for months, and the delays and obstructions have been due to republican stonewalling (and occasionally Dems acting out).

The black helicopter types are going to completely lose it.

Also, people will continue to believe that there is a public option, which they will have to go on. And they will believe that it funds abortion.

401 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:50:57pm

re: #395 JasonA

They still have outrage left?

Yep! It's an endless well of outrage.

Apparently "the revolution" is supposed to start tomorrow. ;)

402 Mark Pennington  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:51:49pm

re: #392 iceweasel

prediction: the reaction from the right will be to present this as something 'rushed through' and passed in the dead of night to hide something-- despite the fact that health care reform was talked about all throughout the presidential campaign (by both candidates), this has been going on for months, and the delays and obstructions have been due to republican stonewalling (and occasionally Dems acting out).

The black helicopter types are going to completely lose it.

I can't wait to peek at the Malkin blog and see what wacky photoshop she has to go along with the poutrage.

403 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:53:46pm

I MUST go to bed now.
The wingnuttia of this will still be going full steam ahead, tomorrow.
Bless the lizards who monitor this.
May your heads not explode.

404 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:54:14pm

Incoming. One guy is saying this is worse then 9/11. Another is saying it is a result of 9/11.

405 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:54:48pm

re: #403 Floral Giraffe

I MUST go to bed now.
The wingnuttia of this will still be going full steam ahead, tomorrow.
Bless the lizards who monitor this.
May your heads not explode.

Later FG!

My head exploded when I was 23. Still recovering. ;)

406 It's a cookbook!  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:54:57pm

re: #401 Gus 802

Yep! It's an endless well of outrage.

Apparently "the revolution" is supposed to start tomorrow. ;)

407 Irenicum  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:56:24pm

Speaking of heads exploding and apropos of nothing:

White Rabbit/Somebody to Love.

Now I really am going to bed.

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:56:43pm

re: #404 Gus 802

Incoming. One guy is saying this is worse then 9/11. Another is saying it is a result of 9/11.

Terrorist attacks lead to health care bills?

409 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:57:37pm

re: #408 SanFranciscoZionist

Terrorist attacks lead to health care bills?

I guess so. There must be some kind of logic behind that but I don't think I'll try and figure it out.

410 Kruk  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:58:07pm

re: #408 SanFranciscoZionist

Terrorist attacks lead to health care bills?

They probably see it as another stage of the attack on America.You know, what with Obama being a sekrit Muslim and all...

411 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 10:59:20pm

Still one more vote to go though. This was a procedural vote.

412 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:00:30pm

re: #410 Kruk

They probably see it as another stage of the attack on America.You know, what with Obama being a sekrit Muslim and all...

Rrrright.

That needs some music.

413 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:01:03pm

re: #399 Dark_Falcon

I fear you're right ice, but I think we both hope you're wrong.

DF, I would love to be wrong. But we're not dealing with rational people any more.

Here's the most ironic thing-- (fortunately Cato isn't here to tell me I'm misusing the term, which I likely am) -- if The republicans had wanted to be serious people, if they had been anything other than the Party of No, the bill would have been substantially watered down. Instead they spent their time babbling about death panels, and promoting insane shit like this:

RNC Makes (Adjective) Health Care Mad Libs To (Verb) Democrats

It's a fill in the blank letter to Harry Reid. Here's what it says:

To: Majority Leader Reid Your Name: Your Email: Re: Advice Date: December 18, 2009

American's health care system is in crisis, and we need serious reform. Every American will have access to mandatory/required/compulsory health insurance because they will be given budget-busting/deficit creating new subsidies. To keep insurance companies accountable, we will have a new public option, where there will be a non-profit plan administered by Office of Personnel Management/ACORN/Labor Union bosses/the federal health care czar/the DMV. With that new public option, Americans will finally get the rationed/expensive/poor quality care that they need.

To pay for these new programs, we will cut/slash/gut Medicare. But this will only affect waste and fraud, and not affect any benefits unless you're on Medicare advantage/unless your doctor refuses Medicare patients/unless you need care and it's rationed. Further revenues will come only from taxes on the middle class/small business owners/sick people/people with good insurance plans.

In addition to those income tax increases, certain fees will be assessed on wheelchairs/Botox/Band-Aids/eyeglasses/chicken soup/aspirin.

With all of these improvements to our government-run/top-down/Washington centered health care bill, we'll be sure to finish our historic work before the President's Labor Day/Columbus Day/Thanksgiving/Christmas/State of the Union/Valentine's Day deadline.

Nice to see that this is what the RNC was spending time on yesterday, isn't it?

414 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:02:14pm

re: #411 Gus 802

But it was the hard one. To pass the Senate on the floor, all that will be needed is a majority vote. Then the reconciliation with the House bill will bring up all sorts of issues. It is still possible that whatever comes out of the conference will have something that some of the (D) Senators don't like, so that is a hurdle.

415 Kruk  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:03:13pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder if this person understands how culturally and racially diverse Texas is, or that they have, y'know, civil rights and tapas bars there now. For quite some time, actually.

I doubt that'll be a problem. I've noticed ethnic cleansing seems to crop up quite often in these seccessionist Utopia fantasies.

416 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:04:30pm

re: #414 freetoken

But it was the hard one. To pass the Senate on the floor, all that will be needed is a majority vote. Then the reconciliation with the House bill will bring up all sorts of issues. It is still possible that whatever comes out of the conference will have something that some of the (D) Senators don't like, so that is a hurdle.

Yep. With a static procedural vote of a flat 60 nothing is written in stone as of yet. I tell you though. Any Dem that reverses their vote now is in serious trouble with the DNC in the future.

417 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:06:11pm

re: #415 Kruk

I doubt that'll be a problem. I've noticed ethnic cleansing seems to crop up quite often in these seccessionist Utopia fantasies.

What they want is to move to Iceland, but the Icelanders won't let them in.

418 Bagua  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:06:22pm

re: #416 Gus 802

[...] Any Dem that reverses their vote now is in serious trouble with the DNC in the future.

Whom do they fear more, the DNC or the voters?

419 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:06:40pm

re: #413 iceweasel

Right. Another factor in this is that the progressives are not happy with this bill. Not without a public option. The unions aren't happy with this piece of legislation either. The right will be unhappy regardless.

420 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:06:42pm

re: #416 Gus 802

This is one of the signature issues of the Democratic party, and contrary to the histrionics of the right-o-sphere, the majority of Americans want some sort of health care reform. The bill as it now is written is probably not exactly what the majority of Americans wish, but coming to the right political formula on health care has proven to be elusive.

421 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:07:18pm

re: #416 Gus 802

Yep. With a static procedural vote of a flat 60 nothing is written in stone as of yet. I tell you though. Any Dem that reverses their vote now is in serious trouble with the DNC in the future.

We'll have to see what comes out of conference. The Senate has already signaled they don't want their bill changed. If the House also insists on its version, the bill could still end up in a train wreck. But I expect the House to fold in order to allow something to pass.

422 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:08:52pm

re: #419 Gus 802

Right. Another factor in this is that the progressives are not happy with this bill. Not without a public option. The unions aren't happy with this piece of legislation either. The right will be unhappy regardless.

Yep.
Attention, opponents of the bill on the right--Cheer up: MoveOn and Jane Hamsher aren't happy about this either, nor are lots of people on the left.

423 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:09:16pm

re: #418 Bagua

Whom do they fear more, the DNC or the voters?

The voters come in the end with an election. If they lose party operatives, funding, the unions, etc. that would make things rough in future election. It sort of deflates party activists. So they lose a good deal of the progressive base.

424 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:09:39pm

re: #422 iceweasel

Yep.
Attention, opponents of the bill on the right--Cheer up: MoveOn and Jane Hamsher aren't happy about this either, nor are lots of people on the left.

Exactamundo.

425 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:09:43pm

re: #421 Dark_Falcon

I agree; pressure will be put on Speaker Pelosi to go along with the Senate. At least in the House, the Democratic reps have enough of a majority margin that different individuals can vote nay (for purely district politics reasons) and a bill still pass.

426 laZardo  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:13:11pm
427 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:13:42pm

re: #420 freetoken

This is one of the signature issues of the Democratic party, and contrary to the histrionics of the right-o-sphere, the majority of Americans want some sort of health care reform. The bill as it now is written is probably not exactly what the majority of Americans wish, but coming to the right political formula on health care has proven to be elusive.

There was a post at Washington Monthly that talked about how every progressive reform had to take place incrementally:

As we've talked about recently, progressives have faced this situation before. When Medicaid passed, it did very little for low-income adults, which is now seen as the point of the program. When Medicare passed, it all but ignored people with disabilities. When Social Security passed, the benefits were negligible, and the program excluded agricultural workers, domestic workers, the self-employed, railroad employees, government employees, clergy, and those who worked for non-profits. The original Social Security bill offered no benefits for dependents or survivors, and included no cost-of-living increases.

These are, of course, some of the bedrock domestic policies of the 20th century, and some of the towering achievements of progressive lawmaking. But when they passed, they were wholly inadequate. There were likely liberal champions of the day who perceived the New Deal, the Great Society, FDR, LBJ, and their congressional Democratic majorities as disappointing and incompetent sell-outs who failed to take advantage of the opportunity before them, producing genuinely awful legislation.

But the programs passed, and once they were in place, they improved, expanded, and became integral to the American experience. It took years and perseverance, but progress happened after the initial programs became law.

On balance I'm hopeful.

428 haakondahl  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:15:32pm

Congratulations to all you fucking nutters who blew up the Republican party.

It's awfully hard to blame the leftists for being leftists. The Commies and the Socialists will always do their thing, and we used to be able to stop them. Not anymore, thanks to you children who decided to "punish" the Republican Party by withholding your votes in 2006 and 2008.

At least you can comfort yourselves with the knowledge that you maintained your precious ideological purity. You sent the Democrats to the White House, and the Republicans to the nut house.

Enjoy the Poor House.

429 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:16:23pm

re: #428 haakondahl

Congratulations to all you fucking nutters who blew up the Republican party.

It's awfully hard to blame the leftists for being leftists. The Commies and the Socialists will always do their thing, and we used to be able to stop them. Not anymore, thanks to you children who decided to "punish" the Republican Party by withholding your votes in 2006 and 2008.

At least you can comfort yourselves with the knowledge that you maintained your precious ideological purity. You sent the Democrats to the White House, and the Republicans to the nut house.

Enjoy the Poor House.

You're kidding, right?

430 Kruk  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:16:53pm

re: #420 freetoken

This is one of the signature issues of the Democratic party, and contrary to the histrionics of the right-o-sphere, the majority of Americans want some sort of health care reform. The bill as it now is written is probably not exactly what the majority of Americans wish, but coming to the right political formula on health care has proven to be elusive.

This bill is very far from perfect, but it's a massive step towards achieving that the supporters of health care reform have wanted. There is still a chance of it getting screwed up if enough people insist its their way or the highway. If that happens though, the Democrats will have no-one to blame but themselves. Incremental progress towards your goals is still progress.

OT: You know you think way too much about this topic when you actually dream about being personally involved in the Senate negotiations.

431 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:18:45pm

re: #423 Gus 802

The voters come in the end with an election. If they lose party operatives, funding, the unions, etc. that would make things rough in future election. It sort of deflates party activists. So they lose a good deal of the progressive base.

Yep. Quite a bit of anger amongst the netroots. We must always remember that infighting is what the left does best, and their capacity to hold together a coalition long enough to elect Obama is more of a testament to how angry people were at the Republican party and bush and the war, rather than a testament to the left's capacity to work together.
Unhappy conservatives can comfort themselves by watching the infighting and fallout on the left, and remind themselves that if large chunks of the left are this unhappy with the bill, then it can't be all bad (from a rightie's perspective.)

432 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:18:52pm

re: #427 iceweasel

On balance I'm hopeful.

I've always been a big proponent of incrementalism. Phasing in changes is typically good policy. For health care my idea was to start with health insurance regulatory reform. But, my own personal points are moot.

433 SixDegrees  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:19:11pm

re: #37 albusteve

just the potential legalities involved

There aren't any. Courts have ruled consistently that blog owners aren't legally responsible for comments left on their sites.

I'd say it's more a reaction to having her filth dragged out in public.

Either way, though, it's rare enough to be remarkable. Malkin hardly ever does any sort of management of her blog at all, let alone moderation of her comment section. I doubt it would take anyone more than a minute or two to find something equally repugnant over there.

434 Kruk  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:21:25pm

re: #417 SanFranciscoZionist

What they want is to move to Iceland, but the Icelanders won't let them in.

Heh. That reminds of great riposte I heard to the claim that immigration was making Britain a "mongrel nation":

"Yes. Heaven forbid we dilute the purity of our Anglo/Saxon/Celtic/Norman/Roman/Germanic heritage."

435 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:23:03pm

re: #431 iceweasel

Yep. Quite a bit of anger amongst the netroots. We must always remember that infighting is what the left does best, and their capacity to hold together a coalition long enough to elect Obama is more of a testament to how angry people were at the Republican party and bush and the war, rather than a testament to the left's capacity to work together.
Unhappy conservatives can comfort themselves by watching the infighting and fallout on the left, and remind themselves that if large chunks of the left are this unhappy with the bill, then it can't be all bad (from a rightie's perspective.)

Spoken like a true political observer. Unfortunately for the right, they won't pay attention to that. This is really a rather big political liability with the president given that he has lost faith with progressives. Logically, it just doesn't make sense to have no public option for progressives. Also, that he, and the congressional majority, caved in to lobbying interests. The irony being that even though this piece of legislation has the potential for having a serious impact on the status quo it still remain a watered down bill.

436 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:23:22pm

re: #432 Gus 802

Gramscian!

437 Bagua  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:26:04pm

re: #436 freetoken

Gramscian!

It does appear that way to me.

438 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:30:36pm

re: #435 Gus 802

Spoken like a true political observer. Unfortunately for the right, they won't pay attention to that. This is really a rather big political liability with the president given that he has lost faith with progressives. Logically, it just doesn't make sense to have no public option for progressives. Also, that he, and the congressional majority, caved in to lobbying interests. The irony being that even though this piece of legislation has the potential for having a serious impact on the status quo it still remain a watered down bill.

I think the GOP bet everything on the Dems tearing themselves apart over this. They thought they could obstruct enough and create enough hysteria-- and present a completely united front, refusing to be part of the process -- and enough of the centrist Dems would be cowed. They bet everything on that. And in many other years it would have worked-- they could have counted on the Dems tendency to fight amongst themselves kicking in.
Instead, the dems were forced to realise they'd get nothing from the repubs-- and so they would just have to go ahead.
I think the extended temper tantrum the GOP has been having, and this particular vote breakdown, is going to be looked back on as a low point in American politics. History will not be kind to the current GOP over this.

439 freetoken  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:38:33pm

re: #438 iceweasel

There is a definite void on the minority side, a void of an intellectual and ideological and strategic nature. Simply obstructing a movement that the majority of Americans desire, even if the technicalities of the health care bill may not be what every American wishes, is fraught with failure.

For 6 years of GWB's presidency the GOP had control of, or at least the greatest influence over, the Congress. In that time health-care reform was overlooked. A positive action on addressing health care costs during that time would have left less fuel to fire the flame that President Obama has been fanning.

Because health care has risen so much is costs so quickly, many Americans are looking for answers. The GOP failed to deliver. In light of this, I am not surprised that even a flawed plan by the (D) leadership was able to get this far.

Again, the cost of health care scares many Americans. That means there is a source of political will that can be tapped, and has been by the Democratic leadership.

440 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:40:15pm

re: #438 iceweasel

I think the GOP bet everything on the Dems tearing themselves apart over this. They thought they could obstruct enough and create enough hysteria-- and present a completely united front, refusing to be part of the process -- and enough of the centrist Dems would be cowed. They bet everything on that. And in many other years it would have worked-- they could have counted on the Dems tendency to fight amongst themselves kicking in.
Instead, the dems were forced to realise they'd get nothing from the repubs-- and so they would just have to go ahead.
I think the extended temper tantrum the GOP has been having, and this particular vote breakdown, is going to be looked back on as a low point in American politics. History will not be kind to the current GOP over this.

Yes. Apparently we have someone who hasn't taken note of the progressive response to the legislation and is quick to call it a Communist take-over of sorts. The Republican health care solutions would have amounted to this: pray. Or at least it seems that way given their recent revanchism towards the theo-con Tea Party base.

I'm sure tomorrow they'll start their stunt of reading the bill. The final vote may or may not be 60 and time will tell. Regardless of this, the Hospital Corporation of America and Pfizer, et al, will be rather happy with the final result. The health insurance companies are thrilled to have the individual mandate which comes on line in 2013. So we have the corporations all lined up and, happy. Obama will lose a significant portion of progressives while the right, again, will be unhappy. Long term the GOP won't have a clue because they'll still be bowing to Rush Limbaugh and James Dobson and praying that you stay healthy.

441 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:51:37pm

re: #440 Gus 802

Yes. Apparently we have someone who hasn't taken note of the progressive response to the legislation and is quick to call it a Communist take-over of sorts. The Republican health care solutions would have amounted to this: pray. Or at least it seems that way given their recent revanchism towards the theo-con Tea Party base.

I'm sure tomorrow they'll start their stunt of reading the bill. The final vote may or may not be 60 and time will tell. Regardless of this, the Hospital Corporation of America and Pfizer, et al, will be rather happy with the final result. The health insurance companies are thrilled to have the individual mandate which comes on line in 2013. So we have the corporations all lined up and, happy. Obama will lose a significant portion of progressives while the right, again, will be unhappy. Long term the GOP won't have a clue because they'll still be bowing to Rush Limbaugh and James Dobson and praying that you stay healthy.

I think you're exactly right, in every respect. Recall that the deal with Big Pharma was secretly cut back in April, if I'm not mistaken.
Obama is banking on the progressives not being angry enough to run a third party candidate challenge in 2012--which was already being threatened. People on the right shouldn't be too unhappy about this bill, as the people who are most pissed off with Obama are also the ones who did most to get him elected.
That anger will go into Dem primary challenges and will probably help the Repubs in the midterm elections.

None of this will stop people from claiming the bill is Socialism, or Communism. You should see some of the initial reactions pouring in on twitter under the tcot and gop hashtags: "Tonight the Senate declared War on America".
I might put together a list of the most crazy ones in a bit.

442 Millicent Islam  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:54:15pm

re: #439 freetoken

There is a definite void on the minority side, a void of an intellectual and ideological and strategic nature. Simply obstructing a movement that the majority of Americans desire, even if the technicalities of the health care bill may not be what every American wishes, is fraught with failure.

For 6 years of GWB's presidency the GOP had control of, or at least the greatest influence over, the Congress. In that time health-care reform was overlooked. A positive action on addressing health care costs during that time would have left less fuel to fire the flame that President Obama has been fanning.

Because health care has risen so much is costs so quickly, many Americans are looking for answers. The GOP failed to deliver. In light of this, I am not surprised that even a flawed plan by the (D) leadership was able to get this far.

Again, the cost of health care scares many Americans. That means there is a source of political will that can be tapped, and has been by the Democratic leadership.

It would have been nice to see tort reform at least passed under Bush, but he had no more incentive than Obama-- completely agree with the rest too, esp the fear. Americans are afraid of rising health care costs, and are right to be-- especially now. It's out of control.

443 Gus  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 11:59:08pm

re: #441 iceweasel

I think you're exactly right, in every respect. Recall that the deal with Big Pharma was secretly cut back in April, if I'm not mistaken.
Obama is banking on the progressives not being angry enough to run a third party candidate challenge in 2012--which was already being threatened. People on the right shouldn't be too unhappy about this bill, as the people who are most pissed off with Obama are also the ones who did most to get him elected.
That anger will go into Dem primary challenges and will probably help the Repubs in the midterm elections.

None of this will stop people from claiming the bill is Socialism, or Communism. You should see some of the initial reactions pouring in on twitter under the tcot and gop hashtags: "Tonight the Senate declared War on America".
I might put together a list of the most crazy ones in a bit.

Funny. I was just looking at the #tcot Twitter entries. They're losing their mind and this is just a procedural vote. The Right shouldn't be too unhappy because this is a corporate friendly bill. That might be difficult to communicate because they're still caught up with the memes of abortion, Communism, death panels and JBS pablum we see being repeated at TCOT.

444 Millicent Islam  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:02:34am

re: #443 Gus 802

Funny. I was just looking at the #tcot Twitter entries. They're losing their mind and this is just a procedural vote. The Right shouldn't be too unhappy because this is a corporate friendly bill. That might be difficult to communicate because they're still caught up with the memes of abortion, Communism, death panels and JBS pablum we see being repeated at TCOT.

Exactly, total meltdown. Communism, War on America declared,-death panel euthanasia-BOO!
I'm afraid to look at HotAir. BBIAB

445 suchislife  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:05:56am

re: #441 iceweasel

Actually I was kind of heartened by how the fight over healthcare between progressive and the moderate wing of the Dem party went.
It's true that the left blogosphere was/is split over this. But, I really think they are split between two not completely unreasonable positions, and I actually like that both these views were vigorously defended. And I thought it was encouraging that the top proponents of the bill killers and the take what you can getters still seemed to read each other, respond to each others arguments, and the merits of the other side, cf the 20 questions exchange of Nate Silver. This doesn't seem like crippling infighting to me, it seems like proper politics. As Nate Silver said, nothing less than the full furor of the activist left was needed. They actually didn't hinder more concillatory elements, they helped!
I'm always a bit taken aback at the general sentiment on LGF that things like protests (with giant puppets and die-ins, oh my!) or boycotts are somehow what is wrong with the political debate, as if exchanging links and laid back editorials are the only acceptable ways to express and promote a political view. I think they are often ineffective and/or contraproductive, but they don't have to be.
To me, what is wrong is when these political exxagerations are based on lies, or when they are based on bigotry, or when activists allow themselves to be co-opted by other interests, or when these tactics stifle conversation or limit the range of what is talked about to exclude reasonable options (up to advocating violence against dissenters, which I regard as terrorism.)
That, to me, is the difference between liberal hatred of Lieberman, and conservative cries of "Rino!".
The boycotts of the bill killers were always explicitly called temporary. It seems pretty obvious to me that come the election, the progressives will rally round. Although I do aggree with Nate Silver that there will be an ethusiasm gap.

446 Millicent Islam  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:46:35am

re: #445 suchislife


It seems pretty obvious to me that come the election, the progressives will rally round. Although I do aggree with Nate Silver that there will be an ethusiasm gap.

I think you're right about the rest-- and as for this, i really hope you are right, but bickering and infighting is so characteristic on the left...I'm very cynical. Much of the lefty complaints about the bill annoyed me, and I think I am just used to thinking of the Dems (and the left) as people who are accustomed to shooting themselves in the foot. Don't get me wrong, I agreed with Nate Silver, and people like Steve Benen and Ezra Klein (and John Cole) have seemed like welcome voices of sanity, and I was pleasantly surprised they could all pull together...we'll see. There will definitely be an enthusiasm gap, how that will manifest is up in the air.

I have a general amount of cynicism and wariness regarding the cohesiveness of any left coalition, that's all. I hope you're right.

447 suchislife  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:13:03am

re: #446 iceweasel

I think I am just used to thinking of the Dems (and the left) as people who are accustomed to shooting themselves in the foot.

I know, and I get that. But. This idea that Dems are hopelessly divided and always selfdefeating is not only a belief backed up by experience, it's also a meme Dems bought into, to the point of overlooking reality. (Just like many blacks didn't believe Obama could possibly win, when white liberals thought the polls made it pretty much a sure thing)
I remember telling friends, we´re going to take back congress, just look at the numbers, and they would not believe it, because they were so caught up in thinking Dems are well meaning loosers. Now I'm not saying everything is perfect, just that Dems should maybe sometimes correct their projections for this bias.
I do think things have changed a bit. Consider the difference between backing Nader and backing Lamont. One was a lunatic thing to do, IMO. The other, not so much. Consider the (incredibly long) primary battle between Clinton and Obama, and its minimal fallout for party unity. Consider that Kos, who is a primary mover on the progressive activist side is really very good at seeing electorial realities (which is why he embraced Nate Silver like he did, and like he will continue to do.)

448 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:58:51am

re: #371 Floral Giraffe

All of the better histories of the American Civil War start off before the war since they need to cover the political and social groundwork that led up to it.

If I recall correctly McPherson starts back in the early 1800s. Plus he spends considerable text on the political and social side of the war and how it interacts with the military side.

_Battle Cry of Freedom_ has gotten a couple of re-reads from me, and is sitting there with my full bookcase of other ACW-related books.

449 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 7:25:39am

re: #438 iceweasel

Question is whether or not the Democratic majority in Congress decides that everything from here on out is going to have to be run the same way; e.g. use their majorities and push through their own bills while leaving the Republican minority to whine about it.

450 wrenchwench  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:05:35pm

This is the first time I've ever had an interest in tattoos.

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