Why I Left the Right, Exhibit P for Pawlenty

Newsweek has an interview with Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty, the very model of a modern GOP candidate, considered by many as a possible front runner for the Presidency in 2012: Anti-science and anti-gay.

Let me ask you about social issues your party has been dealing with. In her book, Palin claims that McCain’s handlers wanted her to be silent about her belief in creationism. How would you describe your view?

I can tell you how we handle it in Minnesota. We leave it to the local school districts. We don’t mandate a curriculum or an approach. We allow for something called “intelligent design” to be discussed as a comparative theory. It doesn’t have to be in science class.

Is this a kind of “moderate” creationism?

Well, Pawlenty is clearly trying to soft-pedal it, but no, there’s nothing “moderate” about this. The fact is that “intelligent design” has no validity whatsoever, as a “comparative theory” or any other kind of theory. ID is not a “theory” at all in the scientific sense — it’s a marketing ploy to repackage fundamentalist Christian creationism in a cheap pseudo-scientific suit.

And it’s become a plank of the GOP platform in many states — including Minnesota (PDF link). Quote:

P. Protecting educators from disciplinary action for including discussion of creation science, and adopting science standards that acknowledge the scientific controversies pertaining to the theory of evolution.

When a Republican governor is openly in favor of teaching this nonsense to children — and notice he says it “doesn’t have to be” in science class, not that he’s opposed to teaching it in science class — it’s appalling.

And Pawlenty’s personal views are even more anti-scientific:

Where are you personally?

Well, you know I’m an evangelical Christian. I believe that God created everything and that he is who he says he was. The Bible says that he created man and woman; it doesn’t say that he created an amoeba and then they evolved into man and woman. But there are a lot of theologians who say that the ideas of evolution and creationism aren’t necessarily inconsistent; that he could have “created” human beings over time.

Pawlenty has no problem with teaching creationism as science, but he wants to protect children from cross-dressing elementary school teachers, whether they actually exist or not. And he wants to make sure that gay couples don’t receive medical benefits — a position he’s reversed as the GOP has moved farther and farther to the right.

I know you are opposed to gay marriage, but what about medical benefits for same-sex couples?

I have not supported that.

Why not?

My general view on all of this is that marriage is to be defined as being a union of a man and a woman. Marriage should be elevated in our society at a special level. I don’t think all domestic relationships are the equivalent of traditional marriage. Early on we decided as a country and as a state that there was value in a man and a woman being married in terms of impact on children and the like, and we want to encourage that.

To borrow a phrase, have your views evolved over time?

In 1993 I voted for a bill prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation in public accommodation, housing, and employment. That was 16 years ago.

Yes, gay-rights activists regarded you as a pretty cool guy at the time.

We overbaked that statute, for a couple of reasons. If I had to do it over again I would have changed some things.

Overbaked?

That statute is not worded the way it should be. I said I regretted the vote later because it included things like cross-dressing, and a variety of other people involved in behaviors that weren’t based on sexual orientation, just a preference for the way they dressed and behaved. So it was overly broad. So if you are a third-grade teacher and you are a man and you show up on Monday as Mr. Johnson and you show up on Tuesday as Mrs. Johnson, that is a little confusing to the kids. So I don’t like that.

Has the law been changed?

No. It should be, though.

So you want to protect kids against cross-dressing elementary-school teachers. Do you have any in Minnesota?

Probably. We’ve had a few instances, not exactly like that, but similar.

Yikes.

So what happens if a cross-dressing elementary school teacher wants to teach “intelligent design” creationism? Imagine, if you will, the massive cognitive dissonance that would ensue.

Jump to bottom

391 comments
1 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:49:30pm

I want to know what happened that wasn't 'exactly like that, but similar'.

2 Guanxi88  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:50:55pm

re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist

I want to know what happened that wasn't 'exactly like that, but similar'.

Lady borrowed her husband's oxford shirt; wife does that to me all the time. You can imagine the harm it causes.

3 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:51:05pm

re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist

Women wearing pants, probably.
/

4 arielle  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:51:15pm

It's good to know that Minnesota's problems have all been solved and they can now focus on cross dressing teachers that don't exist.

5 garhighway  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:51:36pm

It would be instructive (and fun!) to administer truth serum to these guys to find out what they REALLY think, as opposed to what they know they have to say to have a shot at being the 2012 nominee. Not that it matters: if they'll say it now, they will act on it later, if they get the chance. Whether they really believe any of it or not.

6 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:53:00pm

re: #2 Guanxi88

Lady borrowed her husband's oxford shirt; wife does that to me all the time. You can imagine the harm it causes.

I'm wearing my wife's oversized red knit pullover sweater right now. She insists I wear it because my own sweaters make me look fat.

7 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:53:34pm
ID is not a “theory” at all in the scientific sense — it’s a marketing ploy to repackage fundamentalist Christian creationism in a cheap pseudo-scientific suit. And it’s become a plank of the GOP platform in many states.

Including the MN GOP. Here is a PDF of their platform.

P. Protecting educators from disciplinary action for including discussion of creation science, and adopting science standards that acknowledge the scientific controversies pertaining to the theory of evolution.

8 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:55:45pm

re: #5 garhighway

It would be instructive (and fun!) to administer truth serum to these guys to find out what they REALLY think, as opposed to what they know they have to say to have a shot at being the 2012 nominee. Not that it matters: if they'll say it now, they will act on it later, if they get the chance. Whether they really believe any of it or not.

Even if he's just being a weathervane, then that still means that a sizeable chunk of the electorate there supports what he's saying.

9 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:55:48pm

re: #6 The Sanity Inspector

I'm wearing my wife's oversized red knit pullover sweater right now. She insists I wear it because my own sweaters make me look fat.

Your sweaters make you look fat or your fat makes you look fat? Just askin'.
///

10 redtickbeer  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:55:54pm

Summary to Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District.

"The proper application of both the endorsement and Lemon tests to the facts of this case makes it abundantly clear that the Board's ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause. In making this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents."

11 The Curmudgeon  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:56:21pm

Arrrrggghhh! I just finished posting about Pawlenty at my place, then I come over here and see that I've been scooped by Charles.

12 garhighway  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:58:53pm

re: #8 The Sanity Inspector

Agreed. It seems like you can't be a serious contender in the national GOP without signing on to the "science as spin" platform. Sad that an entire national political party would just give up on science.

13 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:59:18pm

re: #6 The Sanity Inspector

I'm wearing my wife's oversized red knit pullover sweater right now. She insists I wear it because my own sweaters make me look fat.

Now, see, this is how society starts to crumble.

14 Glen Davidson  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 12:59:59pm

It's ok if ID is discussed in school, of course, since it's one of the pseudosciences that impedes learning, and which can be profitably contrasted to actual science.

But one fears that Pawlenty means more than just that, especially when he calls that sack of sick a "comparative theory" when even many of the IDiots (Paul Nelson, Phillip Johnson, Michael Medved) admit that ID has no theory. If it's pretended that ID's anything like science, the teaching is a lie and a violation of the 1st Amendment.

And gee, why doesn't Pawlenty stick with Genesis' cosmology as well, the flat earth with the dome over the top?

Glen Davidson
[Link: tinyurl.com...]

15 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:00:04pm

Not my definition of "Overbaked".

16 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:00:47pm

re: #15 Ben Hur

Not my definition of "Overbaked".

I'm not sure of your definition...
///

17 Guanxi88  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:01:39pm

re: #15 Ben Hur

Not my definition of "Overbaked".

re: #16 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm not sure of your definition...
///

CCA - his eyes are kinda red. Allergy season, already?

18 subsailor68  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:01:45pm

Hi Charles. What bothers me about the governor's answers is that they don't really address the question being asked, which is just about as worrisome as his positions. Just a couple of examples from above:

How would you describe your view?

I can tell you how we handle it in Minnesota. We leave it to the local school districts.

Uh, governor, unless you've taken to using the "Royal" we - you're dodging the question.

Where are you personally?

Well, you know I’m an evangelical Christian. I believe that God created everything and that he is who he says he was.

But:

But there are a lot of theologians who say that the ideas of evolution and creationism aren’t necessarily inconsistent; that he could have “created” human beings over time.

So, are you agreeing with these theologians?? Or not?

I know you are opposed to gay marriage, but what about medical benefits for same-sex couples?

I have not supported that.

What? Medical benefits or gay marriage? Or Either?

My general view on all of this is that marriage is to be defined as being a union of a man and a woman.

So, no mention of medical benefits.

He's just as vague in the rest of the selections you quoted. I'm not particularly impressed. He comes off as weaseling around the issues, by either not even addressing a question, or qualifying it to death.

19 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:02:22pm

The Grand Daddy of the MN Religious Right is a man by the name of Alan Quist. Quist is now morphing into a Tea Party candidate:

Former state legislator Allen Quist has announced his campaign to challenge Rep. Tim Walz in Minnesota's First Congressional district. A once-outspoken figurehead of the conservative Christian movement, he's now promising a retooled campaign that will focus more on "Tea Party" issues than on social issues targeted by the religious right. But during the last few months, he had been working closely with some of the religious right's top leaders as he's done throughout much of his 27-year political career.

Here are some of his recent connections:

In August, Quist appeared on the radio program of the American Family Association of Pennsylvania, an anti-gay, anti-pornography group tied to the American Family Association.

Currently, he's a speaker for Lutherans for Life, an anti-abortion group, where his expertise is listed as creationism.

And on Friday, Quist was on James Dobson's Family News on Focus, sharing the air with a representative of the Minnesota Family Council, discussing marriage and the health reform bill being debated in the U.S. Senate.

Some history on this guy:

Quist was elected to the Minnesota House in 1982 just as the religious right was gaining influence in the Republican party. He told the Washington Post in 1985, "I don't know how to gauge it, but I can say this: At the last [Republican] convention, the Christian right was able to do virtually anything it wanted to."

He gained some fame in the late 1980s, as a state legislator, for bold conservative stances. In the 1988 legislative session, he racked up a cumulative 30 hours on the House floor speaking about sex. He railed against what he he saw as the evils of homosexuality and sex education in the schools. He tried to get a counseling center for gays and lesbians at Mankato State University shut down. "He alleged that Mankato State University was encouraging the spread of AIDS by sponsoring a counseling center for gays, comparing it to a center for the Ku Klux Klan," wrote the Star Tribune's Dane Smith in 1994.

When that failed, Quist entered an adult bookstore in Mankato looking to see if anyone was engaged in sexual activity in order to have it shut down.

I'm certain he'll be working close with Bachmann, who is cut from the same theo-con cloth now that she's gone Paulian, Quist will likely use that to his advantage.

20 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:02:38pm

re: #17 Guanxi88

CCA - his eyes are kinda red. Allergy season, already?

But why does he have a giant bag of Taco Bell?
/

21 suchislife  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:02:40pm

"So you want to protect kids against cross-dressing elementary-school teachers. Do you have any in Minnesota?

Probably. We’ve had a few instances, not exactly like that, but similar."

lol

22 Guanxi88  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:03:47pm

re: #20 Cannadian Club Akbar

But why does he have a giant bag of Taco Bell?
/

Must be having some friends coming by later.

(ahh! memories of my youth!)

23 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:03:49pm

Minnesota.

Choose between Jesse Ventura and Creationists.

24 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:04:28pm

re: #20 Cannadian Club Akbar

But why does he have a giant bag of Taco Bell?
/

Uch. Never.

25 Guanxi88  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:04:36pm

re: #23 Ben Hur

Minnesota.

Choose between Jesse Ventura and Creationists.

Truthers vs. Flat-Earthers. I'd choose another state.

26 subsailor68  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:05:19pm

re: #21 suchislife

"So you want to protect kids against cross-dressing elementary-school teachers. Do you have any in Minnesota?

Probably. We’ve had a few instances, not exactly like that, but similar."

lol

Heh. Yeah, that one piqued my curiosity too. Wonder what the "similar" was.

Pawlenty: "Well, I did hear about a history teacher who came to school dressed as George Washington. He even wore that white wig thingy. That's pretty close, right?"

What?

27 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:06:26pm

re: #21 suchislife

"So you want to protect kids against cross-dressing elementary-school teachers. Do you have any in Minnesota?

Probably. We’ve had a few instances, not exactly like that, but similar."

lol

$20 he gets busted.

28 Guanxi88  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:06:49pm

re: #24 Ben Hur

Uch. Never.

Jack-in-the-Box:

29 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:07:17pm

re: #11 The Curmudgeon

Arrrggghhh! I just finished posting about Pawlenty at my place, then I come over here and see that I've been scooped by Charles.

Stick in spinoffs up top under "related"

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:07:23pm

re: #26 subsailor68

Heh. Yeah, that one piqued my curiosity too. Wonder what the "similar" was.

Pawlenty: "Well, I did hear about a history teacher who came to school dressed as George Washington. He even wore that white wig thingy. That's pretty close, right?"

What?

There was one professor at my college who did a sex-change. That was notable, mostly because I had friends in her department, and it turns out that being on estrogen therapy is pretty much like having PMS for months on end. Not good, if you are teaching advanced math to terrified undergrads.

31 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:07:33pm

re: #28 Guanxi88

Loved it when I lived out west!

Then people started dying.

32 lucky dog  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:07:36pm

Charles, It's not the right that has a problem it's the Republicans! It's the Republican mainstream that has problems. Conservatism itself is NOT problematic. Again It's the republicans that are the problem. You have illustrated that well yourself. What I see though is that you are not conservative and probably never were, I wonder now why I thought you were a conservative. You say you are "leaving the right" you never were "right"!

33 webevintage  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:08:02pm

re: #21 suchislife

"So you want to protect kids against cross-dressing elementary-school teachers. Do you have any in Minnesota?

Probably. We’ve had a few instances, not exactly like that, but similar."

lol

WTH?
Does that mean they have cross-dressing cats instead of teachers?

34 freetoken  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:09:09pm

re: #32 lucky dog

So, let me ask, does "conservative" = believing in creationism?

35 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:09:42pm

I would wager that the wingnuts in MN are on a teacher witch hunt right now looking for someone they can smear as a cross dresser. It will be at Malkin's place soon...

36 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:09:58pm

re: #23 Ben Hur

Minnesota.

Choose between Jesse Ventura and Creationists.

Gotta give Ventura credit for one thing. He had the presence of mind to walk out of Paul Wellstone's political rally funeral. Ventura's a pro wrassler turned politician--and yet that event was too fake even for him.

37 suchislife  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:10:22pm

re: #26 subsailor68

Yes!
But also the whole question. Think of the children!!1! They might get "confused" (meaning, catch teh gay)
Did you read the Debbie Schlussel rant about the new Tinkerbell wearing some clothes that cover her bits and thus being too masculine and really reimagined as a lesbian?

38 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:11:55pm

re: #32 lucky dog

Charles, It's not the right that has a problem it's the Republicans! It's the Republican mainstream that has problems. Conservatism itself is NOT problematic. Again It's the republicans that are the problem. You have illustrated that well yourself. What I see though is that you are not conservative and probably never were, I wonder now why I thought you were a conservative. You say you are "leaving the right" you never were "right"!

How the hell would you know. Your user profile says you are a libertarian, which means not really caring about anything. Libertarians the party of and always of the future.

And you have the nerve to question Charles. Come back when you believe in something.

39 webevintage  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:12:11pm

re: #37 suchislife

Yes!
But also the whole question. Think of the children!!1! They might get "confused" (meaning, catch teh gay)
Did you read the Debbie Schlussel rant about the new Tinkerbell wearing some clothes that cover her bits and thus being too masculine and really reimagined as a lesbian?

I must be a lesbian then since I make an effort everyday to "cover my bits". Does Debs not think one should cover their bit even if they are hand drawn.

40 Guanxi88  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:12:52pm

re: #37 suchislife

Yes!
But also the whole question. Think of the children!!1! They might get "confused" (meaning, catch teh gay)
Did you read the Debbie Schlussel rant about the new Tinkerbell wearing some clothes that cover her bits and thus being too masculine and really reimagined as a lesbian?

Great! Now my #2 daughter's favorite:

1) Next-door neighbor
2) Aunt
3) Teacher
AND
4) Fairy

are all lesbians? What's the poor girl to do?

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:13:53pm

re: #35 Thanos

I would wager that the wingnuts in MN are on a teacher witch hunt right now looking for someone they can smear as a cross dresser. It will be at Malkin's place soon...

Some poor middle-school teacher who dressed up in a skirt and heels for Halloween is about to get dragged into the nontroversy of his life.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:14:21pm

re: #37 suchislife

Yes!
But also the whole question. Think of the children!!1! They might get "confused" (meaning, catch teh gay)
Did you read the Debbie Schlussel rant about the new Tinkerbell wearing some clothes that cover her bits and thus being too masculine and really reimagined as a lesbian?

Yes. It's a Muslim plot. Decent American women wear short-shorts.

43 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:14:28pm
44 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:14:53pm

Upding for paraphrasing Gilbert & Sullivan Charles.

45 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:15:22pm

re: #40 Guanxi88

Great! Now my #2 daughter's favorite:

1) Next-door neighbor
2) Aunt
3) Teacher
AND
4) Fairy

are all lesbians? What's the poor girl to do?

Introduce her to some strippers. But the sad truth is that they probably also cover their bits when they're, you know, at the grocery store, or Parent Night.

46 subsailor68  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:15:22pm

re: #37 suchislife

Yes!
But also the whole question. Think of the children!!1! They might get "confused" (meaning, catch teh gay)
Did you read the Debbie Schlussel rant about the new Tinkerbell wearing some clothes that cover her bits and thus being too masculine and really reimagined as a lesbian?

Oh you're kidding! That's an example of someone having way too much time on their hands.

Although, I must admit I did prefer Julia Roberts in Hook - but that's 'cause I'm a guy.

;-)

47 suchislife  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:15:52pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

That would make a movie I would watch.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:16:14pm

re: #46 subsailor68

Oh you're kidding! That's an example of someone having way too much time on their hands.

Although, I must admit I did prefer Julia Roberts in Hook - but that's 'cause I'm a guy.

;-)

Read it. It's a remarkably revealing rant...

49 The Curmudgeon  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:16:43pm

re: #29 Thanos

Stick in spinoffs up top under "related"

Thanks for the tip, but I don't know what spinoffs are, and I assume it's poor taste for me to do that. No problem. I'll just slog on.

50 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:18:07pm

re: #35 Thanos

I would wager that the wingnuts in MN are on a teacher witch hunt right now looking for someone they can smear as a cross dresser. It will be at Malkin's place soon...

I think Minnesota is becoming a sort of bellwether in politics. MN liberals can be as loony as the wackiest right wing kooks, but the moderates have won in Minnesota over time. The growing presence of the religious right and the tea parties makes me think we'll be seeing this trend grow, as the Paulians have very much tried to sink their fangs into the MN GOP, and the RR is fighting back by "adopting" them, apparently.

51 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:19:10pm

re: #49 The Curmudgeon

Thanks for the tip, but I don't know what spinoffs are, and I assume it's poor taste for me to do that. No problem. I'll just slog on.

At the bottom of the article section of the post is a link labeled "Spinoff Links" Drop it down, and it will allow you to insert the url and title of piece and select a category for it as well as put in a slug. "Related" would be the proper category in this case.

52 lucky dog  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:19:10pm

re: #34 freetoken

Does liberal = anti - gun?

53 suchislife  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:20:36pm

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

Obviously it's way more over the top, but imo, Pawlenty's answers come from exactely the same kind of beliefs. Children must be protected from behavior that is not gender compliant in the strictest sense, because otherwise, we risk teh gay.

54 KernelPanic  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:20:55pm

re: #52 lucky dog

Does liberal = anti - gun?

No.

55 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:21:16pm

re: #51 Thanos

At the bottom of the article section of the post is a link labeled "Spinoff Links" Drop it down, and it will allow you to insert the url and title of piece and select a category for it as well as put in a slug. "Related" would be the proper category in this case.

I just posted the curmudgeonly link there.

56 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:21:28pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

I think Minnesota is becoming a sort of bellwether in politics. MN liberals can be as loony as the wackiest right wing kooks, but the moderates have won in Minnesota over time. The growing presence of the religious right and the tea parties makes me think we'll be seeing this trend grow, as the Paulians have very much tried to sink their fangs into the MN GOP, and the RR is fighting back by "adopting" them, apparently.

Yes it's become like a bad season of Survivor -- you know the one where the alliance of outcasts and misfits appear to be winning.

57 lucky dog  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:21:50pm

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

How the hell would you know. Your user profile says you are a libertarian, which means not really caring about anything. Libertarians the party of and always of the future.

And you have the nerve to question Charles. Come back when you believe in something.

Well you have ZERO effing clue WHAT libertarianism is come back when you aren't ignorant of the facts!!!

58 The Curmudgeon  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:23:23pm

re: #51 Thanos

At the bottom of the article section of the post is a link labeled "Spinoff Links" Drop it down, and it will allow you to insert the url and title of piece and select a category for it as well as put in a slug. "Related" would be the proper category in this case.

Thanks for the info. This site is largely a mystery to me. I took a look at that feature. Hey, Charles just added a link to my humble blog! Most appreciated.

59 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:23:32pm

re: #56 Thanos

Yes it's become like a bad season of Survivor -- you know the one where the alliance of outcasts and misfits appear to be winning.

Well- you're the one who taught me about fringe european parties demonizing moderates. I see the same going on with American politics. Moderates are teh eeevil. Hence purges and purity tests.

60 lucky dog  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:23:58pm

re: #54 KernelPanic

good answer. So I guess not all conservatives are pro creationists

61 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:24:15pm

re: #57 lucky dog

Well you have ZERO effing clue WHAT libertarianism is come back when you aren't ignorant of the facts!!!

Walter's explanation make much more sense than yours.

62 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:24:27pm

re: #52 lucky dog

Typically, yes.

63 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:25:09pm

re: #57 lucky dog

Well you have ZERO effing clue WHAT libertarianism is come back when you aren't ignorant of the facts!!!

Since the late 80's, neither do they!

64 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:25:52pm

re: #52 lucky dog

Does liberal = anti - gun?

Gun control is policy.

Creationism is ridiculous mumbo-jumbo spoonfed to foolish people. Not the same thing at all, your false equivalency is transparently false.

And before you go HLRGLRBG LIBERAL on me, I'm a liberal who owns guns.

65 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:27:30pm

re: #57 lucky dog

Libertarianism is a very broad philosophy, at its heart simply meaning valuing individual liberty above all else. There are many different paths to this, including socialist libertarians.

If you mean libertarians in the US, they've been, recently, minarchists infested with confederatists, who made a laughingstock of themselves by picking Bob Barr, a recent 'convert', to be their presidential nominee.

66 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:27:49pm

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

How the hell would you know. Your user profile says you are a libertarian, which means not really caring about anything. Libertarians the party of and always of the future.

And you have the nerve to question Charles. Come back when you believe in something.

They're the party of 2112! :D

67 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:28:32pm

The hate mails are already coming in after this post:

Subject: "What happened to you?"

Seriously.

I can only assume heavy drug use?

LGF used to be an interesting place. Now it's pathetic. And pitiable.

Whatever.

Subject: "why i left lgf part I, there is no part II"

Charles-
You have completely lost it.
Please explain to me how Darwin’s theory disproves the existence of God, or any intelligence in the cosmos other than the homo sapien.
Or can you tell me how the cosmos just magically appeared one day? In the beginning there was nothing, then one day a big bang and the whole cosmos just evolved.
For an obviously intelligent person, you are completely blinded by your belief system, all the time ridiculing anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
It’s your blog, do what you want with it, but I won’t be visiting anymore.

Oh, drat. Lost another creationist reader.

68 lucky dog  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:29:21pm

re: #65 Obdicut

No I'm talking the Neal Bortz type Libertarian - thanks!

69 Guanxi88  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:29:26pm

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

Introduce her to some strippers.

Well, her favorite "aunt who isn't an aunt" (wife's friend from college) was a stripper before she parlayed her earnings into a JD. I wonder if that counts.

(The lawyerly part of her biography is what worries me. Gotta protect the kids from bad influences.)

70 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:29:52pm

re: #67 Charles

The hate mails are already coming in after this post:

Subject: "What happened to you?"

Oh, drat. Lost another creationist reader.

He didn't specify which drugs?

71 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:30:29pm

re: #68 lucky dog

No I'm talking the Neal Bortz type Libertarian - thanks!

Who happens to be at odds with the official party stance on several issues! Has been for a number of years now, as a matter of fact

72 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:30:55pm

re: #57 lucky dog

Well you have ZERO effing clue WHAT libertarianism is come back when you aren't ignorant of the facts!!!

I have a perfect Idea of what the libertarians are about, indeed I campaigned for one of their candidates once upon a time. Of course that was way before they became the paleocon and bircher holding pen, & when they weren't so wrapped around the axle with cognitive dissonance that it would crumble Everest if it were suddenly converted to sound.

73 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:31:45pm

re: #68 lucky dog

No I'm talking the Neal Bortz type Libertarian - thanks!

A zany shock jock! Might as well get your politics from Howard Stern, man. :/

74 lucky dog  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:32:04pm

re: #71 sattv4u2

Yes, and I agree with him mostly. One of the most intelligent amd pragmatic persons I know. He's right on!

75 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:32:18pm

re: #68 lucky dog

No I'm talking the Neal Bortz type Libertarian - thanks!re: #71 sattv4u2

Who happens to be at odds with the official party stance on several issues! Has been for a number of years now, as a matter of fact

and it's boOrtz , by the way

76 Girth  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:32:22pm

re: #67 Charles

Please explain to me how Darwin’s theory disproves the existence of God, or any intelligence in the cosmos other than the homo sapien.

Who ever argues that evolution disproves the existence of God except for the dumbasses who set it up as a strawman like this guy?

77 lucky dog  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:32:52pm

re: #72 Thanos

WHAT?

78 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:33:32pm

re: #68 lucky dog

Yeah, like I said, minarchists.

79 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:33:46pm

What?

80 ED 209  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:34:11pm

re: #73 WindUpBird

A zany shock jock! Might as well get your politics from Howard Stern, man. :/

You say that like it's a bad thing. :>

81 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:34:28pm

re: #64 WindUpBird

And before you go HLRGLRBG LIBERAL on me, I'm a liberal who owns guns.

Don't forget us gun hugging Socialists either :O

William

82 Girth  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:35:25pm

re: #81 wlewisiii

Don't forget us gun hugging Socialists either :O

William

How else are you guys going to confiscate everybody's money?

83 ED 209  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:35:49pm

re: #76 Girth

Who ever argues that evolution disproves the existence of God except for the dumbasses who set it up as a strawman like this guy?

Yea, there are plenty of other reasons not to believe in god!

84 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:35:54pm

re: #80 ED 209

You say that like it's a bad thing. :>

hahaha, Babba Booey! :D Personally, my most respected pundit is the political strategist Beetlejuice.

85 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:36:44pm

re: #82 Girth

How else are you guys going to confiscate everybody's money?

hammers anc sickles ,,,,


Gggeeeezzzz!!!

Image: Hammer_sickle_clean.png

86 Girth  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:37:41pm

re: #83 ED 209

Yea, there are plenty of other reasons not to believe in god!

I just hate it when stupid people can't wrap their heads around the fact that evolution and God are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

87 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:38:07pm

re: #81 wlewisiii

Well.....since you're probably not very religous, that means you can bitterly cling to twice as many guns.

///

88 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:38:12pm

Speaking of radio talk show hosts, Citadel has declared bankruptcy, and that's despite owning radio stalwarts including WABC 770 AM and WPLJ 95.5 FM in NYC.

Advertising has dried up, and they're no less immune to the problem than the newspapers.

89 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:38:31pm

re: #86 Girth

I just hate it when stupid people can't wrap their heads around the fact that evolution and God are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I'm stupid, and I can!!!

((wait ,, HUH !!?!?!?))
:)

90 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:38:39pm

re: #88 lawhawk

And Citadel runs talk show standards including Imus, Rush, and Levin, among others.

91 Girth  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:38:52pm

re: #86 Girth

I just hate it when stupid people can't wrap their heads around the fact that evolution and God are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

PIMF

92 lucky dog  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:39:09pm

Charles, It's not the right that has a problem it's the Republicans! It's the Republican mainstream that has problems. Conservatism itself is NOT problematic. Again It's the republicans that are the problem. You have illustrated that well yourself. What I see though is that you are not conservative and probably never were, I wonder now why I thought you were a conservative. You say you are "leaving the right" you never were "right"!

93 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:39:32pm

re: #88 lawhawk

It's reorganization bankrupcty, not liquidation, correct?

94 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:39:38pm

Gotta go get the papers, get the papers.

95 Mocking Jay  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:39:42pm

re: #88 lawhawk

Speaking of radio talk show hosts, Citadel has declared bankruptcy, and that's despite owning radio stalwarts including WABC 770 AM and WPLJ 95.5 FM in NYC.

Advertising has dried up, and they're no less immune to the problem than the newspapers.

Grrr. I like PLJ. Guess they'll have to switch to hip-hop, too. :

96 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:39:50pm

From #67:

Or can you tell me how the cosmos just magically appeared one day? In the beginning there was nothing, then one day a big bang and the whole cosmos just evolved.

There's a real problem with this question, beginning with the way it is phrased. One of the things created during the Big Bang - along with matter and energy - was time. So speaking of events "before" the Big Bang is simply nonsensical; time didn't exist.

As for what went "before," one way to understand it is to consider the Big Bang to have been a state change (of really immense scope) that converted the Universe into a different form. The reasons for the change, as far as current physics is concerned, are unknown - but no necessarily unknowable. The Universe, then may have always been in existence, but the current form it finds itself in has only existed since the Big Bang.

97 freetoken  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:40:38pm

re: #92 lucky dog

Copy and pasting your own entry?

98 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:41:20pm

re: #93 sattv4u2

It is a reorganization (Ch 11), but it shows that even the right wing talk shows aren't generating the revenues either. It's an across the spectrum hit to broadcasters and publishers.

99 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:41:23pm

re: #92 lucky dog
You already stated that above, and got excoriated for it above

Whats that "classic definition of insanity" !?!?!?

100 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:41:25pm

re: #92 lucky dog

You are repeating yourself why?

101 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:41:26pm

re: #82 Girth

How else are you guys going to confiscate everybody's money?


Get elected after running as 'moderates'. Pass any number of pricey entitlement programs that entail punitive taxes against the middle class.

102 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:41:33pm

re: #92 lucky dog

Charles, It's not the right that has a problem it's the Republicans! It's the Republican mainstream that has problems. Conservatism itself is NOT problematic. Again It's the republicans that are the problem. You have illustrated that well yourself. What I see though is that you are not conservative and probably never were, I wonder now why I thought you were a conservative. You say you are "leaving the right" you never were "right"!

Do libertarians tend to repeat themselves a lot, or is this a personal problem? Most of us saw the first posting of this, and many responded. Just because you didn't get the answer you expected doesn't mean we didn't understand you.

It seems that considering the many answers you got, many understood you only too well and didn't agree.

103 Mocking Jay  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:41:59pm

re: #96 SixDegrees

Try to explain to them how space didn't exist either. That should be fun.

104 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:42:39pm

re: #92 lucky dog

Maybe you didn't get as many down dings as you expected on the first go round?

105 subsailor68  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:42:47pm

re: #92 lucky dog

Posting something - an identical something - twice could lead to folks thinking you're just baiting Charles. I hope that's not the case, but it could be seen that way.

106 Slap  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:42:57pm

re: #57 lucky dog

As a hatchling, I know I still have much to learn about the ins and outs here. One is this: going after Walter with a phrase similar to "why don't you get YOUR facts straight" is NEVER going to end well for you.

I'm guessin' you won't have much time to find that out, tho.

107 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:43:06pm

re: #82 Girth

How else are you guys going to confiscate everybody's money?

Sorry, that was the communists not socialists despite what the propagandists would have you believe. Read Michael Harrington sometime for a better idea of what it could really be.

William

108 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:43:15pm
109 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:44:07pm

re: #104 Walter L. Newton

Maybe you didn't get as many down dings as you expected on the first go round?

I gave him one for each. What the hell ,, they don't cost me anything!
AND ,, it's CHRISTMAS!!

110 ED 209  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:44:23pm

re: #86 Girth

I just hate it when stupid people can't wrap their heads around the fact that evolution and God are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Their real problem is that logic and reason and god are.

111 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:45:35pm

re: #86 Girth

I just hate it when stupid people can't wrap their heads around the fact that evolution and God are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I hate it when people can't wrap their heads around the fact that God is a myth. But that's just me. I don't slap them over the face about it, nor bring it into my politics, and neither should they.

112 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:46:04pm

re: #87 Fenway_Nation

Well...since you're probably not very religous, that means you can bitterly cling to twice as many guns.

///

Actually I am religious too. Theologically liberal & liturgically reactionary anglo-catholic type Episcopalian. Guns, bibles, incense & full employment! :)

William

113 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:48:40pm

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

Did I roger the thread with that remark?

114 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:49:10pm

re: #103 JasonA

Try to explain to them how space didn't exist either. That should be fun.

Space was also created during the Big Bang.

An oldie but a goodie - The First Three Minutes - explains all of this in great detail in the most understandable exposition on the topic I've read. Highly recommended.

The Wikipedia article on the topic isn't too bad, either.

115 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:50:31pm

re: #113 Walter L. Newton

Did I roger the thread with that remark?

Nahh ,,, I was just about to respond

You're right, God IS a myth
Perpetuated by Jesus and the Holy Ghost

((they needed a third for the Nazareth to Jerusalem High Occupancy Commuter Lane))

116 The Curmudgeon  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:50:38pm

re: #96 SixDegrees

From #67:

As for what went "before," one way to understand it is to consider the Big Bang to have been a state change (of really immense scope) that converted the Universe into a different form. The reasons for the change, as far as current physics is concerned, are unknown - but no necessarily unknowable. The Universe, then may have always been in existence, but the current form it finds itself in has only existed since the Big Bang.

That's one way to look at it. Whatever existed "before" the Big Bang was effectively ended, and all pre-existing causal chains collapsed, so "time" essentially started over. In that view, time did exist before the BB, but it's irrelevant.

117 Girth  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:50:51pm

re: #113 Walter L. Newton

Did I roger the thread with that remark?

The last sentence I fully agree with.

The first has been a source of personal logic vs. upbringing conflict for some time now.

118 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:51:25pm

re: #115 sattv4u2

Nahh ,,, I was just about to respond

You're right, God IS a myth
Perpetuated by Jesus and the Holy Ghost

((they needed a third for the Nazareth to Jerusalem High Occupancy Commuter Lane))

You been drinking?

119 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:52:11pm

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

You been drinking?

since the late 1960's, !

120 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:52:48pm

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

You been drinking?

re: #119 sattv4u2

since the late 1960's, !

the early 50's, if you weren't talking about booze!

121 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:54:58pm

Another politician masquerading as a theologian and doing a poor job of it -- on both accounts. As is typical, Pawlenty wear his faith on his sleeve and casts himself as yet another member of the sexuality police. Not a day goes by without a GOP member advertising his or her faith with a televangelist style.

122 Slap  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:55:13pm

Walter, did the interview go well?

123 recusancy  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:56:21pm

OT: Bush Admin Raised Terror Alert Based On Con Man's Al Jazeera 'Decoding' Scam. We invaded Iraq partly because of intelligence from some dipshit (curveball) and then we were adjusting the alert level on the whims of another dipshit who we thought could decode the news? WTF!

124 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:56:22pm

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

re: #120 sattv4u2

the early 50's, if you weren't talking about booze!

although, come to think of it, Mom may have had some wine the night before I was born, so ,,,,,,,

125 Girth  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:57:35pm

re: #107 wlewisiii

Sorry, that was the communists not socialists despite what the propagandists would have you believe. Read Michael Harrington sometime for a better idea of what it could really be.

William

I'm not the type to cross myself and pray at the mere mention of communism or socialism (since I'm not Catholic), but I'm not a big fan either.

Until such time as we break the warp barrier and form the United Federation of Planets. Then I'm down.

126 Sam N  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:58:14pm

re: #92 lucky dog

Lucky Dog, in case you didn't get it the first time, the reason someone asked if conservative = pro-creationism, is because you went off on this rant in this thread where Charles denounces creationism as the foolish crap it is.

Now why did you decide this thread was the time to label Charles as whatever? It stands to reason because you find creationism to be a conservative position. But maybe you just aren't paying attention anymore...

127 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:58:34pm

re: #123 recusancy

OT: Bush Admin Raised Terror Alert Based On Con Man's Al Jazeera 'Decoding' Scam. We invaded Iraq partly because of intelligence from some dipshit (curveball) and then we were adjusting the alert level on the whims of another dipshit who we thought could decode the news? WTF!

THIS GUY?

128 recusancy  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:59:27pm

re: #127 Ben Hur

THIS GUY?

lol

129 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 1:59:41pm

re: #127 Ben Hur

THIS GUY?

Ahhh...DIPshit. DIPshit.

Sorry.

130 Ben Hur  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:01:23pm

outty

131 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:01:33pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Women wearing pants, probably.
/

Blame The Gap!

132 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:03:02pm

re: #122 Slap

Walter, did the interview go well?

No way to tell, but, I did have an in on this job. I was informed about it before it reach the public and the person interviewing me already knew me.

It's not impossible that I would miss this, but, the chances are very good that I will simply get the job, for a number of reasons I can't go into (but all legal :)

So, I should know something before the end of the week.

133 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:03:15pm

re: #123 recusancy

I'm pretty suspicious about that story.

134 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:03:46pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty suspicious about that story.

How about this one?

[Link: www.google.com...]

135 Digital Display  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:04:09pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

No way to tell, but, I did have an in on this job. I was informed about it before it reach the public and the person interviewing me already knew me.

It's not impossible that I would miss this, but, the chances are very good that I will simply get the job, for a number of reasons I can't go into (but all legal :)

So, I should know something before the end of the week.

Awesome Walter! You go Boy!

136 Slap  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:05:23pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

Nothing but positive thoughts being sent your way. I'll raise a Fat Tire to your efforts this eve.

137 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:05:28pm

re: #134 Gus 802

A con artist convinced the CIA and other US agencies in 2003 that he could decode secret messages sent by Al-Qaeda through Al-Jazeera broadcasts, Playboy magazine reported.

AFP is just repeating the claims published in Playboy.

138 Mark Pennington  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:05:53pm

Idiots like Pawlenty think American children need only to ponder how the Great Flood carved out the Grand Canyon less than 6000 years ago and how man co-existed with friendly dinosaurs until Eve had the audacity to take a bite out of that apple!

139 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:06:16pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

AFP is just repeating the claims published in Playboy.

Ah. OK

140 Racer X  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:07:57pm

MAN has translated what he thinks GOD has said.

141 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:08:50pm

Pawlenty and his cohorts have helped redefine the GOP as the party of no, the party of anti-science, the party of hate, the party of No New or Better Ideas Here, the party prone to wild exaggeration, the party of childish fits on the floor, the party of hypocritical, sanctimonious fundies.

Since that's a mouthful, and religious right and far right extremists take too many keystrokes, I'm now simply referring to the party en masse as fundies, since it's the fundies with the reins firmly in their grasp. There are too few gems left to make the distinction any longer; a shitpile of bad apples stinking the place up like a ****house at low tide. Witness the American Taliban.

142 Digital Display  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:09:05pm

re: #138 beekiller

Idiots like Pawlenty think American children need only to ponder how the Great Flood carved out the Grand Canyon less than 6000 years ago and how man co-existed with friendly dinosaurs until Eve had the audacity to take a bite out of that apple!

The apples is just a myth..Word on the street was it was passion fruit...Bad move when they were running around naked..

143 recusancy  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:09:25pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

AFP is just repeating the claims published in Playboy.

Aram Roston, the author of the story, is pretty credible. He's no scrub.

144 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:09:41pm

Men wearing skirts.
Link.

Brave can be any orientation

145 ED 209  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:09:55pm

re: #140 Racer X

MAN has translated what he thinks GOD has said.

FTFY

146 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:10:18pm

re: #141 theheat

Wow. Great rant!

147 Racer X  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:10:26pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

AFP is just repeating the claims published in Playboy.

They have news articles?

148 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:11:42pm

re: #9 Cannadian Club Akbar

Your sweaters make you look fat or your fat makes you look fat? Just askin'.
///

My sweaters are enablers.

149 Girth  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:12:55pm

re: #147 Racer X

They have news articles?

Shh....we only get it for the articles, remember? Stick to the script man!

150 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:13:11pm

re: #135 HoosierHoops

re: #136 Slap

Thanks, all of you.

HH, it's not a programming job. It's retail, but it's full time, 9 dollars and hour and full benefits in 90 days (although I sort of already have coverage due to other arrangements).

But that is much better than the money I am making at the theatre right now. As much as I love theatre work, it's only been part time for two years, sometimes supplemented by off and on contract programming work. But I haven't done more than a couple of hundred dollars worth of contract programming this year. I have to get something, anything full time so I can at least bring in a grand a month. Considering my current situation, that would be comfortable for all involved, me, my girlfriend, the step critters and my personal obligations.

And besides, I prefer 40 hours a week, something that feels more like the rest of the world, the old 9-5 thing. I'm old fashioned, I like to help provide financially more than I have been.

151 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:13:38pm

re: #147 Racer X

They have news articles?

I have no clue what they're doing these days. I haven't seen a copy of Playboy in ages. I don't think anybody reads it anymore since internet porn is free.

152 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:14:27pm

The theo-cons and the paleo-cons/paulians have one thing in common- they don't like Jews. What worries me is the tea party people being able to con enough moonbat truther loons with this anti-Semitism and isolationism. This is where populism starts to get a little scary with it's wrap-around effect.

153 Slap  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:14:27pm

re: #141 theheat

Kudos here, as well.

This may be old news to y'all: but on a newspaper board several months ago, someone either coined or copied something I had never seen: the acronym CAVE.

= Citizen(s) Against Virtually Everything.

More of these folks out there than my youthful idealism would ever have let me believe.

Problem is, that same youthful idealism departed with my hair, and I'd at least like the har back, please.....

154 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:14:54pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

I have no clue what they're doing these days. I haven't seen a copy of Playboy in ages. I don't think anybody reads it anymore since internet porn is free.

There's porn on the internet? I never seen it. Crazy.

155 Racer X  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:15:28pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

I have no clue what they're doing these days. I haven't seen a copy of Playboy in ages. I don't think anybody reads it anymore since internet porn is free.

Link?

/kidding!

156 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:15:48pm

re: #144 Ojoe

Men wearing skirts.
Link.

Brave can be any orientation

Ed Wood, the Z-list Hollywood director, was a crossdresser. In fact, the story goes, he fought in some of the bloodiest battles of WWII in the Pacific wearing red velvet women's underwear.

157 recusancy  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:15:50pm

re: #147 Racer X

They have news articles?

Think of them like Rolling Stone. Only substitute heavily photoshopped partially naked woman for music.

158 Odahi  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:16:12pm

Okay. Someone here help me. I'm not being sarcastic, I think we really need an answer. Pawlenty is out. Palin is out. McCain is so out he's out TWICE. Who should run against Obama in '12? If things continue the way they are going, and Congressional popularity is still in the toilet, there is a really good chance a decent candidate could make significant gains, and bring about some real change in DC. Who would be a good choice? I keep looking, but everyone I've seen so far seems to be pretty badly flawed. And I think it would be a BIG mistake to run someone just because it's "his turn." That got us Bob Dole, and also McCain. We need new blood, but who?
Anyone? Bueller?

159 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:17:02pm

re: #156 The Sanity Inspector

Yeeeee Haaa !

Take that, fundies.

160 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:17:45pm

re: #152 Sharmuta

The theo-cons and the paleo-cons/paulians have one thing in common- they don't like Jews. What worries me is the tea party people being able to con enough moonbat truther loons with this anti-Semitism and isolationism. This is where populism starts to get a little scary with it's wrap-around effect.

The Birchers started out as hyper-paranoid anti-communists, and quickly joined forces with the KKK. After a while, the two were hard to distinguish from one another, and there really wasn't much point left in doing so anyway.

161 Slap  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:18:19pm

re: #157 recusancy

I had never thought of it that way -- airbrushing as the ancestor to photoshop.

But I thought ALL women looked sort of blurry....?////

162 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:19:27pm

re: #161 Slap

But I thought ALL women looked sort of blurry...?///

It's the reduced blow flow to your... eyes.

163 Racer X  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:19:39pm

re: #161 Slap

I had never thought of it that way -- airbrushing as the ancestor to photoshop.

But I thought ALL women looked sort of blurry...?///

Mom said it would make you go blind.

164 Slap  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:20:52pm

re: #163 Racer X

You know what? I just glanced at my palms --

and I found my hair!!!!

165 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:21:14pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

I have no clue what they're doing these days. I haven't seen a copy of Playboy in ages. I don't think anybody reads it anymore since internet porn is free.

What is this porn you speak of!?

166 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:21:49pm

re: #162 allegro

It's the reduced blow flow to your... eyes.

freudian, much !?!?!?

167 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:22:28pm

re: #166 sattv4u2

freudian, much !?!?!?

ROFL!!! Must be.

168 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:24:05pm

re: #165 sattv4u2

What is this porn you speak of!?

It's of no redeeming social importance.

169 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:24:57pm

re: #168 SixDegrees

It's of no redeeming social importance.

I'm surprised it never caught on then!

170 Slap  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:25:12pm

re: #168 SixDegrees

Major up for Tom Lehrer....

171 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:26:53pm

Walter
whatever is going on job wise, I wish you the best of luck...
what a wonderful opportunity to drive a whole new bunch of people crazy

172 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:27:55pm

re: #158 Odahi

Jon Huntsman is a viable candidate. Possibly Mitt. There are possibilities out there but I don't think the Republican party is healthy enough to nominate them. Unless Obama really screws up he's going to be a two term President.

173 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:28:27pm

re: #170 Slap

Major up for Tom Lehrer...

Heard it there first, myself, but I believe that's taken directly from a Supreme Court case.

174 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:29:00pm

re: #158 Odahi

Okay. Someone here help me. I'm not being sarcastic, I think we really need an answer. Pawlenty is out. Palin is out. McCain is so out he's out TWICE. Who should run against Obama in '12? If things continue the way they are going, and Congressional popularity is still in the toilet, there is a really good chance a decent candidate could make significant gains, and bring about some real change in DC. Who would be a good choice? I keep looking, but everyone I've seen so far seems to be pretty badly flawed. And I think it would be a BIG mistake to run someone just because it's "his turn." That got us Bob Dole, and also McCain. We need new blood, but who?
Anyone? Bueller?

Like some of us have said earlier, this is a time of disarray in the Republican party. The fervor is there, but the leadership and ideas are not. It's teh SuxXoR for fans of two party democracies.

175 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:29:38pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Jon Huntsman is a viable candidate. Possibly Mitt. There are possibilities out there but I don't think the Republican party is healthy enough to nominate them. Unless Obama really screws up he's going to be a two term President.

he can really screw up and still win again...voters are very unpredictable

176 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:30:08pm

re: #168 SixDegrees

It's of no redeeming social importance.

Like television, talk radio, and Wal-Mart, everyone except the public hates it.

177 baier  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:31:03pm

re: #160 SixDegrees

The Birchers started out as hyper-paranoid anti-communists, and quickly joined forces with the KKK. After a while, the two were hard to distinguish from one another, and there really wasn't much point left in doing so anyway.

I think the Tea Party may end up being good for conservatives by making the party more appealing to independents and centrist. These morons turn more people away from the party than bring in. I know that the number one reason I voted democrat, until 9/11, is because the GOP social agenda is completely alien to me. 9/11 was a serious enough event for me reconsider how I voted, and still today foreign policy has taken a special priority for me, but Obama has done a pretty good job with that so far.

178 Slap  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:31:17pm

re: #173 SixDegrees

Reality was always the best source of his material, after all....

179 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:32:01pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Jon Huntsman is a viable candidate. Possibly Mitt. There are possibilities out there but I don't think the Republican party is healthy enough to nominate them. Unless Obama really screws up he's going to be a two term President.

I have it on good authority from multiple sources (several in Massachusetts, a couple in Georgia and scattered others) that Mitt has been and will continue to work feverishly forwrad looking to 2012

(Mayans be damned! )/

180 Digital Display  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:32:34pm

A new definition of Ironic..
Kid Rock doing booze commercials on ESPN telling people to drink responsibly...
What's next? Courtney Love doing anti-drug ads? Lindsey Lohan telling the kids to eat Healthy? A full spread of Tiger Woods in New Bride magazine?

181 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:32:39pm

mexico city now recognizes gay marriages

[Link: www.google.com...]


looks like a third world nation is rapidly becoming more advanced than the american midwest and south

182 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:32:44pm

re: #171 albusteve

Walter
whatever is going on job wise, I wish you the best of luck...
what a wonderful opportunity to drive a whole new bunch of people crazy

I have a good opportunity to work in the furniture/electronic department of a major non-profit thrift store chain. And I have an "in" with the manager and interviewed for the job this morning. Nine dollars an hour, full benefits in 90 days, 40 hour a week. A real job. There is a lot of other things I would rather do, but bottom line is after the 55 percent cut in salary at the theatre in Sept. 2009, I really want a regular job.

183 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:33:59pm

re: #179 sattv4u2

Mitt's been pandering to the right, silent when he shouldn't be, and if elected, would owe countless untold favors to the fundiest of the fundies he had to convince he was fundie enough.

184 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:34:28pm

re: #178 Slap

Reality was always the best source of his material, after all...

Well, there's always Poisoning Pigeons in the Park:

185 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:34:42pm

I wonder who's going to show up on these lists.....
Secret neo-Nazi documents published

11 membership lists about to go online

Wikileaks is in the process of making a cache of documents and files from eleven different neo-Nazi organisations readable, and readily available, online.

The membership records and private messages are currently being formatted to make them easy for non-techies to read and will be released on the Wikileaks site shortly.

The organisation got massive publicity last year when it published a BNP membership list handed over by a disgruntled ex-member.

The raw data is already available but needs formatting so: "your grandmother can read them and google can find them... Journalists won't write about it otherwise."

The site is asking for volunteers with enough database skills to be able to expand fields and dumping to text.

186 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:34:53pm

re: #179 sattv4u2

I hope he gets the nomination, he's the only one I would even consider voting for

187 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:35:50pm

re: #177 baier

I think the Tea Party may end up being good for conservatives by making the party more appealing to independents and centrist. These morons turn more people away from the party than bring in. I know that the number one reason I voted democrat, until 9/11, is because the GOP social agenda is completely alien to me. 9/11 was a serious enough event for me reconsider how I voted, and still today foreign policy has taken a special priority for me, but Obama has done a pretty good job with that so far.

There is a possibility that this can be turned into an opportunity to purge the party of the religious right's influence, which has completely displaced Conservatism over the last several years. But that will take some time, and some strong leadership.

188 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:35:56pm

re: #186 SpaceJesus

I would vote for spacejesus before Mitt or the others.

It's that bad.

189 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:36:25pm

Wasn't the charge that the right wing talk hosts got their talking points directly from Bush/Cheney/Rove?
I guess the tradition continues
[Link: radioequalizer.blogspot.com...]

190 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:36:26pm

re: #183 theheat

Mitt's been pandering to the right, silent when he shouldn't be, and if elected, would owe countless untold favors to the fundiest of the fundies he had to convince he was fundie enough.

... and then there's that dog thing. I know it's stupid, But I can't get that outa my head.

191 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:37:03pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

I have a good opportunity to work in the furniture/electronic department of a major non-profit thrift store chain. And I have an "in" with the manager and interviewed for the job this morning. Nine dollars an hour, full benefits in 90 days, 40 hour a week. A real job. There is a lot of other things I would rather do, but bottom line is after the 55 percent cut in salary at the theatre in Sept. 2009, I really want a regular job.

good for you...I was offered a job in a hot rod shop not far from me...a company that builds old trucks into street rods and sell them all over the country...when I feel better I might take it, or I may sit on my fat ass for the next twenty years...ABQ has not been as hard hit, there jobs here and there

192 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:38:16pm

re: #190 allegro

I know it matters little to most people, but it matters to me. And the dog. Anyone that would do that is an A1 fucking asshole, I don't give a damn what their politics are. All the more loathsome he's supposed to be religious and was able to fit that into his day.

193 recusancy  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:39:07pm

re: #180 HoosierHoops

A new definition of Ironic..
Kid Rock doing booze commercials on ESPN telling people to drink responsibly...
What's next? Courtney Love doing anti-drug ads? Lindsey Lohan telling the kids to eat Healthy? A full spread of Tiger Woods in New Bride magazine?

Vitter, Sanford, Craig, Ensign et al. preaching "family values". Oh wait...

194 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:39:11pm

re: #192 theheat

I think it was the fact that he told that as a FUNNY story that doubled the offense for me.

195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:39:21pm

re: #183 theheat

Heh. Fundies.

196 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:39:57pm

re: #191 albusteve

how come we never hang out albusteve. let's go to marble brewery.

197 Digital Display  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:40:58pm

re: #193 recusancy

Vitter, Sanford, Craig, Ensign et al. preaching "family values". Oh wait...

Note to self: Never take a wide stance in a bathroom stall...

198 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:41:24pm

re: #194 allegro

People who are cruel to animals - any animal - are not funny. Arrogant, clueless, and uncaring - yes - but not funny.

199 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:41:52pm

you live down here?

200 Odahi  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:41:58pm

re: #190 allegro

??? I must have missed something. What "dog thing?" Not that I would vote Mitt, I think he's one of the guys who thinks it's his turn, rather than being out in front leading and making everyone excited about him.

201 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:43:05pm

re: #199 albusteve

you live down here?


i go to school here, yeah. i live on central matter of fact

202 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:43:13pm

re: #199 albusteve

you live down here?

He's Jesus

He's EVERYWHERE!

203 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:43:27pm

re: #200 Odahi

It was a story Mitt told about a family vacation road trip. He put their dog in a crate on top of the roof of the car. The dog was so freaked (understandably) that he got diarrhea that was so bad it was flowing down the back window of the car. Ol' Mitt had to stop and hose the car down so they could continue.

204 recusancy  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:43:35pm

re: #198 theheat

People who are cruel to animals - any animal - are not funny. Arrogant, clueless, and uncaring - yes - but not funny.

What about hunting "small varmints, if you will"? haha

205 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:44:13pm

re: #196 SpaceJesus

how come we never hang out albusteve. let's go to marble brewery.

I would pay to watch that.

206 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:44:34pm

re: #200 Odahi

??? I must have missed something. What "dog thing?" Not that I would vote Mitt, I think he's one of the guys who thinks it's his turn, rather than being out in front leading and making everyone excited about him.

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

1983,,,, family vacation. Put the family dog on the car roof (pun!!) in a carrier with a windshield in front of it

207 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:44:46pm

re: #204 recusancy

Blasting a varmint isn't torture or cruelty. Bang. Game over. No suffering involved.

208 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:45:25pm

re: #201 SpaceJesus

i go to school here, yeah. i live on central matter of fact

I'm about five minutes from Marble out near Los Ranchos....dig that...I was just up Central the other day thinking what a bunch of friggin whackos around here...glad the don't go down into the valley...was that you?

209 recusancy  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:46:17pm

re: #207 theheat

Blasting a varmint isn't torture or cruelty. Bang. Game over. No suffering involved.

I was making fun of him for trying to pretend to be a hunter.

210 Odahi  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:46:35pm

re: #203 allegro

Oh, okay. I would NEVER do that to a dog. Either they ride inside with the other people, or they stay home/ at a kennel. That's just a really poor idea.

211 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:46:51pm

re: #209 recusancy

Elmer Fudd is more believable, and never worried about his hair.

212 freetoken  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:48:19pm

re: #181 SpaceJesus

mexico city now recognizes gay marriages

[Link: www.google.com...]


They are also host to the next UNFCCC COP in November 2010... which means of course that gay marriages are an UN conspiracy!

213 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:48:37pm

re: #210 Odahi

Oh, okay. I would NEVER do that to a dog. Either they ride inside with the other people, or they stay home/ at a kennel. That's just a really poor idea.

Unless you crate them inside, or have a station wagon or SUV and put a screen betewwn the cargo area and the back seat, thats not very safe either

214 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:48:56pm

re: #208 albusteve

maybe. i'm a creature of downtown and central most of the time. at least now every time you see some crazy person while you're driving on central you can think it's me.

215 freetoken  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:49:51pm

re: #211 theheat

216 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:50:30pm

re: #213 sattv4u2

Unless you crate them inside, or have a station wagon or SUV and put a screen betewwn the cargo area and the back seat, thats not very safe either

A dog that is used to riding in the car and enjoys it, is not a hazard sitting on the seat.

217 Odahi  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:51:06pm

re: #213 sattv4u2

We have tiny dogs. They are crated, but I've seen a deal where the (very short) leash clips to a kind of strap arrangement and holds them in the seat.

218 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:51:33pm

re: #216 allegro

Until you hit the brakes, and 10 pounds of terrier becomes airborn, and lands under your feet.

Mine has a harness and rides up front with me. The stinky passengers get the back seat and seatbelts.

219 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:51:54pm

re: #216 allegro

A dog that is used to riding in the car and enjoys it, is not a hazard sitting on the seat.

I've had many dogs (and still have 2) , and all have been very well trained. It's still a danger umless they are somehow restrained

220 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:53:14pm

re: #217 Odahi

We have tiny dogs. They are crated, but I've seen a deal where the (very short) leash clips to a kind of strap arrangement and holds them in the seat.

correct. The 2 dogs have have now weigh 12 and 17 pounds respectively. On long rides they are crated, on shorter ones we have the leash/ harness that attaches to the seatbelt

221 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:53:24pm

re: #218 theheat

Until you hit the brakes, and 10 pounds of terrier becomes airborn, and lands under your feet.

Valid point. I take my "kid" most everywhere with me, but usually stick to the streets where we aren't going over about 35mph so he can stick his goggled little face out the window.

222 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:54:22pm

re: #218 theheat

Until you hit the brakes, and 10 pounds of terrier becomes airborn, and lands under your feet.

Mine has a harness and rides up front with me. The stinky passengers get the back seat and seatbelts.

bingo

Dog Projectile

AND,, if you have leather seats and make a turn at any more than 3 miles an hour, they'll slide right off

223 Egregious Philbin  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:54:33pm

You guys will NOT believe this.

"The founder of the website "Free Republic", Jim Robinson, has joined a growing boycott of the CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) due to a homosexual activist group sponsoring the event.

GOProud, a group that advocates same-sex "marriage," a repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and "expanding access to domestic partner benefits" for homosexuals, is listed as a sponsor of the event at CPAC's website.

Mr. Robinson has joined a number of conservative activists including Liberty University Chancellor Jerry Falwell, Jr., Liberty Counsel founder and chairman Mat Staver, and Gary Glenn, president of the American Family Association of Michigan in their efforts.

On a reply to an article about the boycott, Mr. Robinson stated "I’ll join that boycott. If CPAC is no longer for conservative family values then I want nothing to do with them. They’ll have to change their name to HOMOPAC." "

Free Republic Founder joins boycott of CPAC

224 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:55:23pm

re: #214 SpaceJesus

maybe. i'm a creature of downtown and central most of the time. at least now every time you see some crazy person while you're driving on central you can think it's me.

they get around...that day I mentioned, right up on top of Nob Hill an old guy pulled along side me on some kind of motorized bicycle...he had a flashing light on his goofy helmet, and little flashing light all around his bike...dressed in and leotards and cargo shorts...wearing these ridiculous goggles...maybe you've seen him....then a week later I see way down by Cottonwood Mall, putting along, holding up traffic, dressed in the very same getup...email Walter and have him give you my number...we will drink til we stop if you like

225 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:56:33pm

re: #223 Egregious Philbin

On a reply to an article about the boycott, Mr. Robinson stated "I’ll join that boycott. If CPAC is no longer for conservative family values then I want nothing to do with them. They’ll have to change their name to HOMOPAC." "

Don't let the door hit on the ass on the way out, you fundie puke.

226 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:57:54pm

re: #223 Egregious Philbin

Well, so much for the Big Tent, I guess.

I wonder if they'll also boycott the John Birch Society, another sponsor.

227 wrenchwench  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:58:07pm

re: #223 Egregious Philbin

Sorry, no element of surprise in that one.

228 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:58:47pm

Not that expected any different but not a single right wing blog has objected to Michelle Malkin linking to antisemitic articles posted on neoNazis sites. Not one objection. Nothing.

229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:59:13pm
230 Egregious Philbin  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:59:18pm

Here is the horrible, terrible things that GOProud believe:

GOProud's Conservative Agenda

The so-called "gay agenda" is defined by the left through a narrow prism of legislative goals. While hate crimes and employment protections may be worthy goals, there are many other important priorities that receive little attention from the gay community. GOProud's agenda emphasizes conservative and libertarian principles that will improve the daily lives of all Americans, but especially gay and lesbian Americans.
1 - TAX REFORM - Death tax repeal; domestic partner tax equity, and other changes to the tax code that will provide equity for gays and lesbians; cut in the capital gains and corporate tax rates to jump start our economy and create jobs; a fairer, flatter and substantially simpler tax code.
2 - HEALTHCARE REFORM - Free market healthcare reform. Legislation that will allow for the purchase of insurance across state lines - expanding access to domestic partner benefits; emphasizing individual ownership of healthcare insurance - such a shift would prevent discriminatory practices by an employer or the government.
3 - SOCIAL SECURITY REFORM - Bringing basic fairness to the Social Security system through the creation of inheritable personal savings accounts.
4 - DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL REPEAL - Repeal of the military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.
5 - HOLDING THE LINE ON SPENDING - Standing up for all tax payers against wasteful and unneccessary spending to protect future generations from the mounting federal debt.
6 - FIGHTING GLOBAL EXTREMISTS - Standing strong against radical regimes who seek to criminalize gays and lesbians.
7 - DEFENDING OUR CONSTITUTION - Opposing any anti-gay federal marriage amendment.
8 - ENCOURAGING COMMUNITY ENTREPRENEURSHIP - Package of free market reforms to encourage and support small businesses and entrepreneurship in the gay community.
9 - REVITALIZING OUR COMMUNITIES - A package of urban related reforms; expanding historic tax preservation credits; support for school choice.
10 - DEFENDING OUR COMMUNITY - Protecting 2nd amendment rights.


Yeah, those evil evil gays...

231 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 2:59:22pm

re: #224 albusteve


oh yeah, i've seen him around, at least in nob hill. i frequent Two Fools quite a bit. im leaving for home in an hour, then after my birthday, off to egypt for an intercession art law class, so ill be back in mid january for boozing.

232 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:00:49pm

Another love note just in:

I see the fag out of LGF continues(maybe it should be LGB).What do you expect from a nerd from Cal who listens to Bruce Hornsby.Nice state you got there assmunch.Keep telling yourself the deathg panels don't exist.Go kiss a Gila monster.

233 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:01:20pm

re: #223 Egregious Philbin

I believe it. Free Republic is an extremist hate "group" and Jim Robinson is their repugnant leader.

234 wrenchwench  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:01:42pm

re: #224 albusteve

they get around...that day I mentioned, right up on top of Nob Hill an old guy pulled along side me on some kind of motorized bicycle...he had a flashing light on his goofy helmet, and little flashing light all around his bike...dressed in and leotards and cargo shorts...wearing these ridiculous goggles...maybe you've seen him...then a week later I see way down by Cottonwood Mall, putting along, holding up traffic, dressed in the very same getup...email Walter and have him give you my number...we will drink til we stop if you like

See, that's why I don't do motors. They attract the weirdo wing of cyclists. I think that's the origin of the term "wingnut", in fact.

235 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:02:46pm

re: #231 SpaceJesus

oh yeah, i've seen him around, at least in nob hill. i frequent Two Fools quite a bit. im leaving for home in an hour, then after my birthday, off to egypt for an intercession art law class, so ill be back in mid january for boozing.

we will pick up on it then if you want...

236 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:03:11pm

That Jew-hating monkey's uncle is back on the Malkin thread.

237 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:03:12pm

re: #223 Egregious Philbin

Oh, I forgot to add.

But I guess the Drudge Report is OK for this bunch of knuckleheads.

238 Egregious Philbin  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:04:08pm

I think Matt should see that thread and ask himself why he still links to it.

239 wrenchwench  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:04:30pm

re: #232 Charles

Another love note just in:

Oh, yeah. Listen for the Bruce Hornsby if you're looking for the ones who fear not the deathg panels.

240 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:04:30pm

re: #230 Egregious Philbin

"But...but...but they're GAY!!!"

Seriously - elections are won by building coalitions with like-minded people. It isn't necessary to agree on everything. But the goals listed here clearly overlap any true Conservative agenda completely

Steele really ought to be rolling out the red carpet for groups like this - and chastising those whose bigotry gets in the way of accepting them.

241 ignoranceisfatal  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:06:02pm

I am moving to Minnesota next week. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for cross-dressing elementary school teachers.

242 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:06:09pm

re: #240 SixDegrees

Steele doesn't even chastise the True Conservatives™ race baiting and making racist remarks about our black president. You think he's going to extend himself for teh gays?

243 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:06:32pm

re: #234 wrenchwench

See, that's why I don't do motors. They attract the weirdo wing of cyclists. I think that's the origin of the term "wingnut", in fact.

this guy appears to be very eccentric...a lunatic with a PhD maybe, but you gotta have a better thing than a motorized Schwin to get around ABQ...c'mon

244 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:07:22pm

re: #232 Charles

Another love note just in:

The subtle layering and contrapuntal juxtaposition of positions and the carefully shaded, nuanced subtlety of argument here are breathtaking.

245 ignoranceisfatal  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:08:53pm

re: #244 SixDegrees

The subtle layering and contrapuntal juxtaposition of positions and the carefully shaded, nuanced subtlety of argument here are breathtaking.

And the punctuation.Divine.

246 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:09:33pm

re: #244 SixDegrees

The subtle layering and contrapuntal juxtaposition of positions and the carefully shaded, nuanced subtlety of argument here are breathtaking.

Much better than my version, which is:
DAMN it, what the hell is wrong with people, that they think it is OK to write nasty vile things like that?

247 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:09:36pm

re: #242 theheat

Steele doesn't even chastise the True Conservatives™ race baiting and making racist remarks about our black president. You think he's going to extend himself for teh gays?

I'd like to remind these self-styled Conservatives that true Conservatism has, at it's heart, the principle of leaving other people alone to conduct their own lives as they please.

Theocrats, on the other hand, thrive on telling people what to do, and champion the use of state power to force compliance.

248 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:10:29pm

re: #245 ignoranceisfatal

And the punctuation.Divine.

Almost groundbreaking in it's bold defiance of convention.

249 ignoranceisfatal  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:11:09pm

re: #248 SixDegrees

Almost groundbreaking in it's bold defiance of convention.

A disciple of ee cummings, to be sure

250 theheat  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:12:15pm

re: #247 SixDegrees

Left to their own devices, their true colors creepiness shines through.

251 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:14:03pm

re: #245 ignoranceisfatal

And the punctuation.Divine.

punctuation is for slow thinkers....some things are more important..its the internet, not grade school

252 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:14:28pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

I have a good opportunity to work in the furniture/electronic department of a major non-profit thrift store chain. And I have an "in" with the manager and interviewed for the job this morning. Nine dollars an hour, full benefits in 90 days, 40 hour a week. A real job. There is a lot of other things I would rather do, but bottom line is after the 55 percent cut in salary at the theatre in Sept. 2009, I really want a regular job.

Best of luck with the job AND the future plans. Sometimes you've got to take a few steps sideways to keep moving forward. That's one of the windfalls of the recession for those employers who are able to hire: lots of over-qualified applicants out there.

253 limewash  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:15:12pm

How sad. Conservative Yankee blog says, he hopes Senator Byrd doesn't make it for Christmas so he won't vote on the Senate Health Care Bill.

[Link: confederateyankee.mu.nu...]

254 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:16:43pm

re: #253 limewash

Ohhh, that is so wrong. The comments are no better.

255 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:17:01pm

re: #252 The Sanity Inspector

Best of luck with the job AND the future plans. Sometimes you've got to take a few steps sideways to keep moving forward. That's one of the windfalls of the recession for those employers who are able to hire: lots of over-qualified applicants out there.

my upward mobility and earning power peaked out years ago...I like dinking around now...money isn't everything...I want to be the guy that fusses around with the fruits and vegetables at the grocery store, stacking cucumbers with a flair

256 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:17:59pm

re: #223 Egregious Philbin

You guys will NOT believe this.

"The founder of the website "Free Republic", Jim Robinson, has joined a growing boycott of the CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) due to a homosexual activist group sponsoring the event.

GOProud, a group that advocates same-sex "marriage," a repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and "expanding access to domestic partner benefits" for homosexuals, is listed as a sponsor of the event at CPAC's website.

Mr. Robinson has joined a number of conservative activists including Liberty University Chancellor Jerry Falwell, Jr., Liberty Counsel founder and chairman Mat Staver, and Gary Glenn, president of the American Family Association of Michigan in their efforts.

On a reply to an article about the boycott, Mr. Robinson stated "I’ll join that boycott. If CPAC is no longer for conservative family values then I want nothing to do with them. They’ll have to change their name to HOMOPAC." "

Free Republic Founder joins boycott of CPAC

A lot of normal FReepers are flouncing over to this site.

257 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:18:07pm

re: #253 limewash

I don't know how you feel about what you linked to but I down dinged ya'. That blog is out of line.

You object to it I assume?

258 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:20:20pm

re: #257 Gus 802

I don't know how you feel about what you linked to but I down dinged ya'. That blog is out of line.

You object to it I assume?

I think the 1st two words of #253 (how sad) tells us how the poster views it

259 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:21:46pm

re: #258 sattv4u2

I think the 1st two words of #253 (how sad) tells us how the poster views it

I reckon so. Reversed it.

260 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:22:14pm

re: #257 Gus 802

I don't know how you feel about what you linked to but I down dinged ya'. That blog is out of line.

You object to it I assume?

lurking is good...Charles would never approve of this link...how can people not know this?...noobies are more ignorant than ever, and all they have to do is pay attention...this site is not even a tweener, it's foul

261 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:23:34pm

re: #260 albusteve

lurking is good...Charles would never approve of this link...how can people not know this?...noobies are more ignorant than ever, and all they have to do is pay attention...this site is not even a tweener, it's foul

That's what I was thinking. Should be a cached link since it's such a vile blog.

262 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:23:47pm

re: #244 SixDegrees

The subtle layering and contrapuntal juxtaposition of positions and the carefully shaded, nuanced subtlety of argument here are breathtaking.

Let's put him in for a grant from the NEA.

263 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:25:23pm

re: #253 limewash

How sad. Conservative Yankee blog says, he hopes Senator Byrd doesn't make it for Christmas so he won't vote on the Senate Health Care Bill.

[Link: confederateyankee.mu.nu...]

I really, really, very strongly don't like Byrd but, that's beyond the pale.

264 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:25:33pm

re: #189 sattv4u2

Wasn't the charge that the right wing talk hosts got their talking points directly from Bush/Cheney/Rove?
I guess the tradition continues
[Link: radioequalizer.blogspot.com...]

Another one for the It’s Only Wrong When Right-wingers Do It–Maybe You Didn’t Even Do It But We Know You Wanted To file.

265 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:26:04pm

re: #253 limewash

I changed your link to a Google cache link, because I don't want to send traffic there.

It's just sickening to see how this craziness has taken over so many right wing blogs, to the point where they're openly wishing for people to die. You don't have to be a fan of Robert Byrd (I'm not) to think that's way WAY over the line of decency.

266 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:31:14pm

It's not even fulltime election season yet and I'm already politically exhausted.

267 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:32:56pm

re: #266 Obdicut

It's not even fulltime election season yet and I'm already politically exhausted.

just wait til next year...LGF will be going full blast 24/7...heh, I dig it

268 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:33:07pm

re: #266 Obdicut

I've become politically apathetic.

269 Egregious Philbin  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:37:14pm

re: #256 Alouette

I know....I post there too!

270 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:38:34pm

re: #268 Sharmuta

I've become politically apathetic.

when reason seems so far away, when nobody speaks for you, I can understand...I'm still curious but I've been worn down and it seems to me that our style of conservatism is dying...I will vote NM elections but my national voting may be over...we just have to wait and see what gives with the far right...I'm holding out til the end that the rancid GOP cannot kill my ideal, but it looks bleak at this point in time...we shall see next year how robust the freaks truly are

271 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:39:13pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

I have no clue what they're doing these days. I haven't seen a copy of Playboy in ages. I don't think anybody reads it anymore since internet porn is free.

Playboy continues on. Back when we had a subscription, my husband and I split duties over it--he looked at the pictures, and I read the articles.

Sometimes he also read the articles.

272 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:39:44pm

re: #268 Sharmuta

I've become politically apathetic.

Thats exactly what "they" want.

Don't let them!

273 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:40:16pm

re: #156 The Sanity Inspector

Ed Wood, the Z-list Hollywood director, was a crossdresser. In fact, the story goes, he fought in some of the bloodiest battles of WWII in the Pacific wearing red velvet women's underwear.

Because if he was hit by a kamikaze pilot, he wanted to be wearing nice underwear?

//For some reason, that image just fills me with joy.

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:41:26pm

re: #181 SpaceJesus

mexico city now recognizes gay marriages

[Link: www.google.com...]


looks like a third world nation is rapidly becoming more advanced than the american midwest and south

Hey, Iowa is holding up the flag for the midwest.

275 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:41:32pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

Playboy continues on. Back when we had a subscription, my husband and I split duties over it--he looked at the pictures, and I read the articles.

Sometimes he also read the articles.

back when John Updike and writers like him contributed, Playboy was a player...their interviews were legendary, but that was decades ago for me

276 avanti  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:41:33pm

re: #265 Charles

I changed your link to a Google cache link, because I don't want to send traffic there.

It's just sickening to see how this craziness has taken over so many right wing blogs, to the point where they're openly wishing for people to die. You don't have to be a fan of Robert Byrd (I'm not) to think that's way WAY over the line of decency.

This comment was really over the top.:

"At 4 p.m. Sunday afternoon -- nine hours before the 1 a.m. vote that would effectively clinch the legislation's passage -- Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) went to the Senate floor to propose a prayer. "What the American people ought to pray is that somebody can't make the vote tonight," he said. "That's what they ought to pray."

277 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:42:15pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

Thats exactly what "they" want.

Don't let them!

I wish that was enough of a reason to give a sh*t, but it's not.

278 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:43:26pm

re: #276 avanti

This comment was really over the top.:

"At 4 p.m. Sunday afternoon -- nine hours before the 1 a.m. vote that would effectively clinch the legislation's passage -- Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) went to the Senate floor to propose a prayer. "What the American people ought to pray is that somebody can't make the vote tonight," he said. "That's what they ought to pray."

So, now that that's over with, whose side is God on?

Somehow, I don't expect to see Him doing any smiting in answer to prayers, either.

279 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:45:20pm

re: #277 Sharmuta

I wish that was enough of a reason to give a sh*t, but it's not.

The way I look at it, if someone or some group wants me to be complacent about my own self interests, that in itself is enough to motivate me to double my efforts

280 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:46:22pm

re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist

Because if he was hit by a kamikaze pilot, he wanted to be wearing nice underwear?

//For some reason, that image just fills me with joy.

Well, there was also Sam Walls who was favored to win the Republican primary for Texas state legislature. At least until photos surfaced and he was forced to withdraw. Odd thing because he was the same person regardless.

281 jdog29  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:47:14pm

I think Tim Pawlenty should be applauded for expressing his views. I really don't care what anyone's personal views are UNLESS they try to DECEIVE those who are considering voting for or against them based on those views.

What would be truly disturbing is if Pawlenty had said "all the right things" to conceal how he feels about any number of issues. I'm glad he's laid it out there.

If someone wants to believe in the virgin birth, great.

If someone wants to believe in God, great.

If someone wants to believe God promised the land to whomever, great.

...just don't tell me you believe in the virgin birth, God, et, all and then AFTER you're elected, possibly with my vote helping, DECLARE your views to have changed NOW due to some better understanding THEY SUPPOSEDLY DIDN'T POSSESS 6 WEEKS AGO.

282 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:47:20pm

re: #279 sattv4u2

The way I look at it, if someone or some group wants me to be complacent about my own self interests, that in itself is enough to motivate me to double my efforts

There's no where for me to go politically, and I'm not sure if I care if there is.

283 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:47:25pm

re: #279 sattv4u2

The way I look at it, if someone or some group wants me to be complacent about my own self interests, that in itself is enough to motivate me to double my efforts

double what efforts?...endorsing candidates?

284 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:48:47pm

Interesting - OT, I know, but interesting:

Snow storm as seen from space.

285 freetoken  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:48:59pm

re: #281 jdog29

You are assuming that what you heard really are his views, and not a carefully crafted image designed to sell to a particular base.

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:49:57pm

re: #223 Egregious Philbin

You guys will NOT believe this.

"The founder of the website "Free Republic", Jim Robinson, has joined a growing boycott of the CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) due to a homosexual activist group sponsoring the event.

GOProud, a group that advocates same-sex "marriage," a repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and "expanding access to domestic partner benefits" for homosexuals, is listed as a sponsor of the event at CPAC's website.

Mr. Robinson has joined a number of conservative activists including Liberty University Chancellor Jerry Falwell, Jr., Liberty Counsel founder and chairman Mat Staver, and Gary Glenn, president of the American Family Association of Michigan in their efforts.

On a reply to an article about the boycott, Mr. Robinson stated "I’ll join that boycott. If CPAC is no longer for conservative family values then I want nothing to do with them. They’ll have to change their name to HOMOPAC." "

Free Republic Founder joins boycott of CPAC

Right, because those out gay guys have caused nothing but scandal after scandal for the party.

//

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:50:38pm

re: #226 SixDegrees

Well, so much for the Big Tent, I guess.

I wonder if they'll also boycott the John Birch Society, another sponsor.

Are there gay Birchers?

288 jdog29  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:50:40pm

re: #285 freetoken

You are assuming that what you heard really are his views, and not a carefully crafted image designed to sell to a particular base.

yeah, sometimes it's like the politicians are playing Texas Hold'em with their views on issues.

289 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:50:56pm

re: #283 albusteve

double what efforts?...endorsing candidates?

FINDING some, (hell,, back years ago in my hometown I even ran myself twice ,,, school board, one win ,, one loss)
Talking to othre like mided people (disenfranchised) and pooling our efforts, be it fund raising, being locally active, etc

290 simoom  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:51:19pm

I hope this talking point trial balloon doesn't catch on: using "jahidists" and "jihad" in political rhetoric to describe your opponents and their policy goals.

It's both an appeal to anti-muslim sentiment and an attempt at transfering it to the political target.

291 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:51:20pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

Are there gay Birchers?

LOL, I'm sure there are... but I don't think that's what ya meant.

292 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:51:21pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

Are there gay Birchers?

My guess is there are, but they're pretty much permanently in the closet.

293 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:51:34pm

Goofing around on youtube.

Would somebody please explain to me why Tokio hotel, the Jonas Brothers, and Hannah Montana play on the radio and Chris Thile does not?

Are the play lists made up by 8 year-olds.

/Don't answer that.

294 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:51:50pm

govt is way too big
no term limits
too much money involved
it's never a crisis, just a slow growing disease

295 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:52:08pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

Are there gay Birchers?

I once knew an oak tree that I had my suspicions about!!
//

296 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:52:19pm

re: #268 Sharmuta

I've become politically apathetic.

Engraved on the tombstones of many a late democracy.

297 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:52:59pm

re: #296 The Sanity Inspector

Great- so now I'm responsible for the death of the republic?

298 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:53:02pm

re: #289 sattv4u2

FINDING some, (hell,, back years ago in my hometown I even ran myself twice ,,, school board, one win ,, one loss)
Talking to othre like mided people (disenfranchised) and pooling our efforts, be it fund raising, being locally active, etc

I admire your zest...I don't have it

299 jdog29  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:54:16pm

re: #297 Sharmuta

Great- so now I'm responsible for the death of the republic?

I thought he made that clear.//

300 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:54:35pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

Playboy continues on. Back when we had a subscription, my husband and I split duties over it--he looked at the pictures, and I read the articles.

Sometimes he also read the articles.

Ever notice how the men's magazines are devoted to the pursuit of pleasure, while the women's magazines are devoted to the pursuit of men?

301 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:55:04pm

re: #298 albusteve

I admire your zest...I don't have it

I'll admit that for awhile I lost mine. Other things seemed more important. But lately i've gotten my mojo back!

302 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:56:50pm

re: #300 The Sanity Inspector

Ever notice how the men's magazines are devoted to the pursuit of pleasure, while the women's magazines are devoted to the pursuit of men?

That's so ingrained in our psyche, even monkeys behave this way.

303 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:57:48pm

Those male monkey magazines are wild, man!

304 freetoken  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:58:12pm

re: #297 Sharmuta

Nation Killer!

305 Mich-again  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 3:59:17pm

re: #268 Sharmuta

I've become politically apathetic.

I know how you feel..

306 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:00:26pm

re: #265 Charles

I changed your link to a Google cache link, because I don't want to send traffic there.

It's just sickening to see how this craziness has taken over so many right wing blogs, to the point where they're openly wishing for people to die. You don't have to be a fan of Robert Byrd (I'm not) to think that's way WAY over the line of decency.

Too many people reading "War Psalms of the Prince of Peace" out there.

307 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:01:17pm

re: #296 The Sanity Inspector

Engraved on the tombstones of many a late democracy.

we have a society of entitlement way out of proportion and they vote according to their gifts from the feds...we have a society where the minority supports the majority through relentless taxation...productivity is penalized and pandering is the name of the game...we have a culture of TV junkies that depend on Glenn Beck to decide for them how to think about issues...we have a culture far more enlightened with Am Idol than with even local political issues, and they vote...a very few shape what we think and therefore how we vote...the whole system has lost any veil of integrity...there are more thieves and liars in Congress per capita than on main street USA....the system is fucked up badly because voters are ignorant and allow it to happen...what are you doing to save your democracy and how effective is it?

308 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:01:30pm

re: #297 Sharmuta

Great- so now I'm responsible for the death of the republic?

It's like Edmund Burke almost said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good smurfs to do nothing."

309 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:01:49pm

re: #284 reine.de.tout

Interesting - OT, I know, but interesting:

Snow storm as seen from space.

I see FBV down there flipping me the bird for cackling when he shovels his drive.

310 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:02:31pm

re: #309 MandyManners

Yep! That was me!

311 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:03:39pm

re: #305 Mich-again

There's certainly a lot of burn out going on. I don't consider myself apathetic as much as I've become politically agnostic. I definitely not as enthusiastic as I was in the past but I'm still watching what's going on and trying to make sense of things. The Republicans jumping over the cliff has been frustrating to watch.

312 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:04:35pm

voting in this country has turned into a business...you vote a certain candidate and they make money...how else to explain the recent news out of the Senate about Nebraska...it's like that at almost every turn

313 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:04:44pm

re: #308 The Sanity Inspector

It's like Edmund Burke almost said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good smurfs to do nothing."

I'm a republican. I didn't realize there was anything good about that.

314 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:04:58pm
315 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:06:04pm

re: #300 The Sanity Inspector

Ever notice how the men's magazines are devoted to the pursuit of pleasure, while the women's magazines are devoted to the pursuit of men?

One of the best articles I ever read was one where two women had field-tested some of Cosmo and YM's surefire tips for getting men to notice you, and reported on the results.

316 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:06:59pm

re: #307 albusteve

we have a society of entitlement way out of proportion and they vote according to their gifts from the feds...we have a society where the minority supports the majority through relentless taxation...productivity is penalized and pandering is the name of the game...we have a culture of TV junkies that depend on Glenn Beck to decide for them how to think about issues...we have a culture far more enlightened with Am Idol than with even local political issues, and they vote...a very few shape what we think and therefore how we vote...the whole system has lost any veil of integrity...there are more thieves and liars in Congress per capita than on main street USA...the system is fucked up badly because voters are ignorant and allow it to happen...what are you doing to save your democracy and how effective is it?

Let me light my lamp, says the little star,
And never debate
If it will dispel the darkness.
-- Rabindranath Tagore

A work settles nothing, just as the labor of a whole generation settles nothing. Sons, and the morrow, always start afresh.
-- Cesare Pavese, This Business of Living: Diaries 1933-35

317 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:08:36pm

re: #307 albusteve

we have a society of entitlement way out of proportion and they vote according to their gifts from the feds...we have a society where the minority supports the majority through relentless taxation...productivity is penalized and pandering is the name of the game...we have a culture of TV junkies that depend on Glenn Beck to decide for them how to think about issues...we have a culture far more enlightened with Am Idol than with even local political issues, and they vote...a very few shape what we think and therefore how we vote...the whole system has lost any veil of integrity...there are more thieves and liars in Congress per capita than on main street USA...the system is fucked up badly because voters are ignorant and allow it to happen...what are you doing to save your democracy and how effective is it?

Just wanted to repeat this.

318 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:10:20pm

Proof of fascism!

Spreading the wealth around

Terrorist fist bumps


No fascism here but the kid at the lower right just cracks me up.

319 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:12:02pm

re: #314 Gus 802

Heh, pretty funny.

320 gopninja  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:13:31pm

holy cow this place has changed!

321 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:14:23pm

re: #320 gopninja

Just the drapes and a couple of throw rugs. Thanks for noticing.

322 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:14:33pm

re: #307 albusteve

we have a society of entitlement way out of proportion and they vote according to their gifts from the feds...we have a society where the minority supports the majority through relentless taxation...productivity is penalized and pandering is the name of the game...we have a culture of TV junkies that depend on Glenn Beck to decide for them how to think about issues...we have a culture far more enlightened with Am Idol than with even local political issues, and they vote...a very few shape what we think and therefore how we vote...the whole system has lost any veil of integrity...there are more thieves and liars in Congress per capita than on main street USA...the system is fucked up badly because voters are ignorant and allow it to happen...what are you doing to save your democracy and how effective is it?

Demands to be read again and again.

Try this folks... stop taking from the feds. The government should be the LAST stop in the handout line. If you need something, get it yourself, legally, but get it yourself. If you are out of work, get rid of that ego and take a lower paying job... don't run to the ER every time you sneeze... find family, friends and service organizations that can help, but stay away from federal money as much as you can... if you don't like what's been going on in Washington... right or left, you know why it's happening? Because you are letting them run things, pay for things, supply things... you give them the control every time you dip you hand into the public dole.

Just stop it and shut off the one thing they need... your hand out.

323 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:15:00pm

re: #320 gopninja

holy cow this place has changed!

In which way?

324 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:15:12pm

re: #307 albusteve

we have a society of entitlement way out of proportion and they vote according to their gifts from the feds...we have a society where the minority supports the majority through relentless taxation...productivity is penalized and pandering is the name of the game...we have a culture of TV junkies that depend on Glenn Beck to decide for them how to think about issues...we have a culture far more enlightened with Am Idol than with even local political issues, and they vote...a very few shape what we think and therefore how we vote...the whole system has lost any veil of integrity...there are more thieves and liars in Congress per capita than on main street USA...the system is fucked up badly because voters are ignorant and allow it to happen...what are you doing to save your democracy and how effective is it?

Post of the day.

325 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:16:37pm

Gravity is working against me

326 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:16:54pm

re: #320 gopninja

Here we go again...

327 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:18:04pm

re: #326 The Sanity Inspector

Here we go again...

Don't think so... hit and run... playing chicken I think.

328 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:19:46pm

re: #317 Sharmuta

I'm not ready for the Everclear solution

We can live beside the ocean
Leave the fire behind
Swim out past the breakers
Watch the world die

329 tradewind  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:20:35pm

Standing by for moderate-and-lefty blogs to condemn this democrat nutjob:..........
///crickets//
[Link: washingtontimes.com...]

330 Digital Display  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:20:54pm

re: #320 gopninja

Your insight-fullness and depth of posting is really impressive..Really..Is that the best you got? Go Big or go home pal

331 tradewind  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:21:58pm

re: #325 Sharmuta

/Spanx/

332 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:25:38pm

re: #329 tradewind

I'm not sure you read that whole quote:


The birthers, the fanatics, the people running around in right-wing militia and Aryan support groups, it is unbearable to them that President Barack Obama should exist. That is one powerful reason. It is not the only one.
333 tradewind  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:25:46pm

re: #324 MandyManners
It is a good post. Only thing, I would submit that we do indeed have a culture of tv junkies in America, but they're mostly not watching Beck... or any other talk show. It's full-on Jerry Springer, SYTYCD, or if they're really intellectually curious, they might venture into the depths of CSI: MIA.//

334 tradewind  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:26:44pm

re: #332 Obdicut
That's a standard disclaimer, but his main point was front and center. Then, he tries to deny saying exactly what he said.... read further.

335 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:29:03pm

re: #328 The Sanity Inspector

I'm not ready for the Everclear solution

We can live beside the ocean
Leave the fire behind
Swim out past the breakers
Watch the world die

More of a Bloodhound Gang solution

We don't need no water

336 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:29:17pm

OK, this movie is supposed to open Christmas Day in the US, and I'm stoked. Terry Gilliam's fascination with oddly-shaped hot air balloons continues, and he's cast Tom Waits as Satan:

I'm not finding any local listings for it yet, which has me concerned that it may be released in very limited distribution. Still, keeping my fingers crossed.

337 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:30:14pm

re: #332 Obdicut

I'm not sure you read that whole quote:

What birthers?

What fanatics?

What militias?

What aryan support groups?

;-)

338 sattv4u2  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:31:15pm

re: #320 gopninja

holy cow this place has changed!

We painted, re-did the carpet and drapes and next week the hot tub and bar are being delivered

You owe us $500 for your part of the renovations. Hit the tip jar !

339 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:32:02pm

re: #336 SixDegrees

I'm anxious to see that one too. It isn't getting a wide release. It's playing at an art theater near me starting Jan.8. It doesn't look like any of the big theaters are running it.

340 borgcube  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:32:28pm

re: #322 Walter L. Newton

Demands to be read again and again.

Try this folks... stop taking from the feds. The government should be the LAST stop in the handout line. If you need something, get it yourself, legally, but get it yourself. If you are out of work, get rid of that ego and take a lower paying job... don't run to the ER every time you sneeze... find family, friends and service organizations that can help, but stay away from federal money as much as you can... if you don't like what's been going on in Washington... right or left, you know why it's happening? Because you are letting them run things, pay for things, supply things... you give them the control every time you dip you hand into the public dole.

Just stop it and shut off the one thing they need... your hand out.

Join the ranks of the dinosaurs Walter. What you wrote here used to go without saying by politicians of both parties, average Joes, and even those who were truly in need. Not anymore. Saw your note about getting a job for $9 per hour and being happy about it when you can probably do better on a street corner or by applying for various handouts and actually taking back some of the money you paid into the system. For that, I commend you. Too bad such an attitude is almost extinct nowadays as gimme gimme gimme wussie nation has taken over and is destroying us.

341 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:32:43pm

re: #334 tradewind

That's a standard disclaimer, but his main point was front and center. Then, he tries to deny saying exactly what he said... read further.

He doesn't deny saying exactly what he said. That 'disclaimer' really is there in what he said, even if you, for whatever reason of your own, are going to decide that it doesn't count.

342 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:36:39pm

re: #313 Sharmuta

I'm a republican. I didn't realize there was anything good about that.

You're internalizing the ambient disdain. There's a lot to be proud of yet, and that's what will lead to the future revitalization of conservatism.

343 SixDegrees  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:36:46pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

I'm anxious to see that one too. It isn't getting a wide release. It's playing at an art theater near me starting Jan.8. It doesn't look like any of the big theaters are running it.

Apparently, it opens Dec. 25 in New York and LA, then goes into nationwide release on Jan. 8.

AMC Theaters has a listing for it, but it isn't clear how many of it's locations will actually receive it.

344 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:39:02pm

re: #337 Gus 802

They really do have some nerve to bitch about that. The Tea Parties refused to distance themselves from White Supremicists when the ADL told them about it. They showed up on 9/12, many carrying racist signs, to a rally promoted by Birch Society shill Glenn Beck. Hot Air commenters are bitching about it too while the blog's owner, Michelle Malkin, is linking to antisemitic articles on neoNazi sites. Ed and AP allow racist comments, death threats and calls to armed revolt to be posted on the site. They are openly extremist and they've earned the label.

345 dugmartsch  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:39:13pm

In my high school biology class the teacher certainly didn't disbelieve in evolution, but he did believe that God set everything in motion with the big bang. He discussed this several times. And it seemed like a perfectly reasonable opinion in a perfectly reasonable setting because I was in a Catholic School. But he never "taught" or proffered this as some kind of fact, merely offered it as opinion in a school that was no stranger to discussions of religion and how to teach the bible as a metaphoric text.

And this is why even though I'm a liberal I'm open to the idea of school vouchers even if the outcomes for the kids involved are in aggregate the same or even worse. While we do need to maintain minimum standards of education for all our kids, I don't think we should be telling people how to get there.

346 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:39:34pm

re: #338 sattv4u2

We painted, re-did the carpet and drapes and next week the hot tub and bar are being delivered

You owe us $500 for your part of the renovations. Hit the tip jar !

And new brass hinges for the flounce-a-pult!

347 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:39:53pm

re: #340 borgcube

Join the ranks of the dinosaurs Walter. What you wrote here used to go without saying by politicians of both parties, average Joes, and even those who were truly in need. Not anymore. Saw your note about getting a job for $9 per hour and being happy about it when you can probably do better on a street corner or by applying for various handouts and actually taking back some of the money you paid into the system. For that, I commend you. Too bad such an attitude is almost extinct nowadays as gimme gimme gimme wussie nation has taken over and is destroying us.

Thanks for the nice comment. The job is almost a for sure, but still a maybe, will know with in a week.

And guess what? I really meant what I said. Anyone who has been putting up with my comments for the last 5 or 6 years, whatever it has been, knows that no matter what my politics, no matter what my religious opinions, no matter what I have ever said, I have consistently push the concept of taking care of oneself. Be happy with what you can do for yourself, because not a damn soul owes you ANYTHING.

And I dare anyone to prove otherwise.

348 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:40:07pm

re: #340 borgcube

Join the ranks of the dinosaurs Walter. What you wrote here used to go without saying by politicians of both parties, average Joes, and even those who were truly in need. Not anymore. Saw your note about getting a job for $9 per hour and being happy about it when you can probably do better on a street corner or by applying for various handouts and actually taking back some of the money you paid into the system. For that, I commend you. Too bad such an attitude is almost extinct nowadays as gimme gimme gimme wussie nation has taken over and is destroying us.

Uh--as we discuss how, as a nation, we sit around crying for handouts and disdaining the old republican virtues, is anyone here actually talking about him or herself? Just a question.

349 Gus  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:41:03pm

re: #344 Killgore Trout

They really do have some nerve to bitch about that. The Tea Parties refused to distance themselves from White Supremicists when the ADL told them about it. They showed up on 9/12, many carrying racist signs, to a rally promoted by Birch Society shill Glenn Beck. Hot Air commenters are bitching about it too while the blog's owner, Michelle Malkin, is linking to antisemitic articles on neoNazi sites. Ed and AP allow racist comments, death threats and calls to armed revolt to be posted on the site. They are openly extremist and they've earned the label.

Indeed. They certainly can't disown the labels now. In fact, as you point out, it's now encouraged.

350 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:43:01pm

re: #342 The Sanity Inspector

You're internalizing the ambient disdain. There's a lot to be proud of yet, and that's what will lead to the future revitalization of conservatism.

the numbers themselves are shrinking....the tax assault on small business and self employment is meant to guarantee more liberal votes...the machine is running full blast and it's working like a dream...plus we always have another generation coming up that are victims of public education, and they are learning to endorse govt as their source of balance in this world..it's pathetic

351 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:43:20pm

re: #342 The Sanity Inspector

You're internalizing the ambient disdain. There's a lot to be proud of yet, and that's what will lead to the future revitalization of conservatism.

WTF is there to be proud of?

352 borgcube  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:45:11pm

re: #348 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh--as we discuss how, as a nation, we sit around crying for handouts and disdaining the old republican virtues, is anyone here actually talking about him or herself? Just a question.

Those were American virtues, not Republican ones. And I don't understand the point of your question.

353 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:45:11pm

re: #348 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh--as we discuss how, as a nation, we sit around crying for handouts and disdaining the old republican virtues, is anyone here actually talking about him or herself? Just a question.

That's the 64 thousand dollar question. I see a lot of comments from Lizards who are for this federal program and that federal program, but I don't often see them comment if they want those programs because they want to make use of them.

It would seem to me, without direct proof, that not all support for certain entitlement programs that we see here on LFG is all simply altruistic comments.

I can imagine that some commenters would only be very glad to make use of them... my opinion.

354 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:47:39pm

re: #352 borgcube

Those were American virtues, not Republican ones. And I don't understand the point of your question.

See my re: #353 Walter L. Newton... that may be what SanFranciscoZionist was referring to?

355 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:48:37pm

re: #353 Walter L. Newton

I can imagine that some commenters would only be very glad to make use of them... my opinion.

I was very happy to make use of the excellent public schools I was able to go to. I am delighted to make use of highways in good condition that will carry me anywhere I want to go. I really appreciate that there are police and fire professionals... I could go on...

356 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:48:38pm

re: #352 borgcube

Those were American virtues, not Republican ones. And I don't understand the point of your question.

Not Republican, republican. And the point of my question is that I'm wondering who here is running to the free ER every time they have a sniffle. I don't know a lot of people who go on welfare because they don't want to ask their families for help first--actually, I know none. I don't know a lot of people who use 'free' health care for the hell of it.

So my question is, who are we talking to here?

357 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:54:36pm

re: #355 allegro

I was very happy to make use of the excellent public schools I was able to go to. I am delighted to make use of highways in good condition that will carry me anywhere I want to go. I really appreciate that there are police and fire professionals... I could go on...

somebody always brings up what a fine interstate system we have...yeah and our Marines are world class...sort of misses the point imo...anybody can build a goddamned highway...but it takes decades to build up a base of voters that depend on the pols for their welfare...nice going liberals and stupid conservatives....what is the plan to reduce the rolls of those living on entitlements?...show me the beef, don't drag up fucking highways

358 Decatur Deb  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:55:27pm

re: #355 allegro

I was very happy to make use of the excellent public schools I was able to go to. I am delighted to make use of highways in good condition that will carry me anywhere I want to go. I really appreciate that there are police and fire professionals... I could go on...

Constant referral to the unbearable debt we leave our children ignores the staggering infrastructure patrimony we are also leaving. Perhaps, because of the money we are shamelessly spending today, the bridges won't fall down for a while.

359 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:56:03pm

re: #355 allegro

Here we go.....

360 allegro  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:56:26pm

re: #357 albusteve

what is the plan to reduce the rolls of those living on entitlements?...show me the beef, don't drag up fucking highways

Please, define entitlements. Shall we discuss corporate welfare and entitlements?

361 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:56:34pm

re: #355 allegro

I was very happy to make use of the excellent public schools I was able to go to. I am delighted to make use of highways in good condition that will carry me anywhere I want to go. I really appreciate that there are police and fire professionals... I could go on...

You could... so? Not all services are entitlements, but all special interest handout are.

362 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:56:44pm

The democrats are spending our grandchildren into oblivion and the right is freaking out over a birth certificate and Charles Darwin. WTF is there to be proud of?

363 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:56:51pm

re: #353 Walter L. Newton

Regarding "entitlements":

Well I want to pull my own weight & provide for my family as well, but here is a government "handout" story for you: Our first kid was born 2 months premature; my wife had a rare and dangerous form of toxemia which was diagnosed in the nick of time; we drove to UC Med & had the kid delivered by cesarian less than 24 hrs after they figured what was going on, & the kid was in the preemie ward almost 3 weeks. No way we could pay for all that. The state picked up the tab. But for our part we have never stinted in raising our kids as productive and responsible citizens. Now they are taller and stronger than either of us. And I think it all balances out in the end.

And this one year long shouting match about health care distresses me, because I really think that there should be a certain basic level of practical compassion in our country & there is not, and it is not so much a failure of government as it is a failure of the economic elite, and yes, of the common citizen too.

364 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:58:33pm

re: #357 albusteve

It takes great knowledge and skill to design and build any major civil engineering work.

365 prairiefire  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:59:08pm

re: #363 Ojoe

I would upding ya twice, if I could. Thanks, Ojoe!

366 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:59:34pm

re: #360 allegro

Please, define entitlements. Shall we discuss corporate welfare and entitlements?

corporate taxes are nearly the highest in the world here in the USA...between that and the unions it's no wonder we buy our Easter eggs from China...discuss whatever you want, it's not my blog

367 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 4:59:58pm

re: #365 prairiefire

You are welcome.

368 Jaerik  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:02:27pm

re: #366 albusteve

corporate taxes are nearly the highest in the world here in the USA...between that and the unions it's no wonder we buy our Easter eggs from China...discuss whatever you want, it's not my blog

From the Brookings Institute:

The United States has the second highest corporate tax rate of the 30 countries in the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). But because the United States has so many generous special tax preferences for businesses, it collects the fourth lowest corporate tax revenues as a share of GDP among all OECD countries.

369 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:02:34pm

re: #363 Ojoe

One can always find anecdotal incidents that do deserve attention, and that's what you had. But, if you think your story is the same as many people who demand entitlement, then you have a compassion that is out of balance in my opinion.

There is practical compassion in our country, but there is a big difference between compassion and mugging. And there are people who ask the federal government to do the mugging for them all the time.

370 Decatur Deb  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:03:31pm

re: #363 Ojoe

You didn't read the self-reliance manual. If you don't have gold plated insurance, and the church bake sale doesn't pan out, you're supposed to take one for the team.

//must I?

371 albusteve  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:03:36pm

re: #364 Ojoe

It takes great knowledge and skill to design and build any major civil engineering work.

meanwhile New Yorkers are drinking poisoned water

372 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:06:02pm

re: #369 Walter L. Newton

One can always find anecdotal incidents that do deserve attention, and that's what you had. But, if you think your story is the same as many people who demand entitlement, then you have a compassion that is out of balance in my opinion.

There is practical compassion in our country, but there is a big difference between compassion and mugging. And there are people who ask the federal government to do the mugging for them all the time.

I guess this is the part I can't agree with. Call my compassion out of balance, but my experience has been that for many there is too little dsafety net, rather than too much entitlement.

373 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:06:32pm

re: #371 albusteve

meanwhile New Yorkers are drinking poisoned water

I think that's just the latest 'thing'.

374 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:07:01pm

OK, nap time. My cold is not totally gone.

375 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:07:07pm

re: #370 Decatur Deb

... we need to care more about each other in this country ...

BBL

376 Mark Winter  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:13:29pm

So "Intelligent Design" can be taught in schools as long as it's not done by crossdressing teachers.

377 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:15:52pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

WTF is there to be proud of?

There are other people besides bloggers, pundits, talk show hosts, and tea partiers who are conservatives, Sharm. Don't lose hope.

378 djughurknot  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 5:35:56pm

Nuts. Did I miss the thread?

379 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:03:21pm

re: #378 djughurknot

Yep.

380 limewash  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:11:21pm

re: #265 Charles

Thank you and I apologize. I will cache in the future. I held my breath doing it. Should have linked from somewhere else.

381 lostlakehiker  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:15:14pm

If an employer wants to offer medical coverage for partners of gay employees, that would be their business. But why should the taxpayers of MN have to?

Traditional arrangements have an economic and social foundation that is now being forgotten, or shoved down the memory hole, have it whichever way you want.

Whoever is the primary caregiver for a child is going to have a very hard time finding full time employment. Unless they can earn a lot more than average, their income won't reach to covering the day-care expenses. For this reason, we have social security rules that allow one spouse to receive a spouse-share of benefits, based on the earnings of the other. The same goes for medical coverage. The spouse who doesn't have full time work won't have any other way to get coverage.

Pawlenty is wrong on the topic of teaching evolution. But he's not objectively wrong on benefits for gays. That's a debate that hasn't been settled.

One way to look at it is that this amounts to being against diverting scarce resources from those who really need them to those who just want them. That is not unethical.

382 djughurknot  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:26:33pm

re: #379 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

dang.

383 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:29:19pm

re: #381 lostlakehiker

If an employer wants to offer medical coverage for partners of gay employees, that would be their business. But why should the taxpayers of MN have to?

Traditional arrangements have an economic and social foundation that is now being forgotten, or shoved down the memory hole, have it whichever way you want.

Whoever is the primary caregiver for a child is going to have a very hard time finding full time employment. Unless they can earn a lot more than average, their income won't reach to covering the day-care expenses. For this reason, we have social security rules that allow one spouse to receive a spouse-share of benefits, based on the earnings of the other. The same goes for medical coverage. The spouse who doesn't have full time work won't have any other way to get coverage.

Pawlenty is wrong on the topic of teaching evolution. But he's not objectively wrong on benefits for gays. That's a debate that hasn't been settled.

One way to look at it is that this amounts to being against diverting scarce resources from those who really need them to those who just want them. That is not unethical.


Because straight people without kids are treated just like childless gay couples.

Oh yeah, and I guess there's no such thing as gay partners with children. I must be imagining them. Some people are still more equal than others, I see! Thanks for reminding me.

384 lostlakehiker  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:30:16pm

re: #158 Odahi

Okay. Someone here help me. I'm not being sarcastic, I think we really need an answer. Pawlenty is out. Palin is out. McCain is so out he's out TWICE. Who should run against Obama in '12? If things continue the way they are going, and Congressional popularity is still in the toilet, there is a really good chance a decent candidate could make significant gains, and bring about some real change in DC. Who would be a good choice? I keep looking, but everyone I've seen so far seems to be pretty badly flawed. And I think it would be a BIG mistake to run someone just because it's "his turn." That got us Bob Dole, and also McCain. We need new blood, but who?
Anyone? Bueller?

Romney? He'd lose, because he'd never get the conservative Christian vote, but he'd be fit to govern if somehow he did win.

And his defeat would be an object lesson to conservative Christians that pride should have its limits. Sometimes you can't get everything you want in a president. The 2012 election will be one of those times.

385 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:33:01pm

re: #366 albusteve

corporate taxes are nearly the highest in the world here in the USA...between that and the unions it's no wonder we buy our Easter eggs from China...discuss whatever you want, it's not my blog

Huh? That's not even remotely true.

"Between 2000 and 2005, U.S. corporate taxes amounted to 2.2% of the GDP. The average for the 30 mostly rich member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development was 3.4%."

[Link: www.smartmoney.com...]

I swear, it takes me seconds to google this stuff.

386 lostlakehiker  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:34:21pm

re: #383 WindUpBird

Because straight people without kids are treated just like childless gay couples.

Oh yeah, and I guess there's no such thing as gay partners with children. I must be imagining them. Some people are still more equal than others, I see! Thanks for reminding me.

Ah, but gay partners with children should come under the aegis of rules that would mirror those for marriage as far as these benefits were concerned.

To the extent they exist, and it is small, the same fundamental reasons that justify SS and health benefits for spouses justify support for their situations.

You do realize that it never, ever happens that a same sex couple has a child that is biologically their own, both of them?

387 lostlakehiker  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 7:08:09pm

re: #223 Egregious Philbin

You guys will NOT believe this.

"The founder of the website "Free Republic", Jim Robinson, has joined a growing boycott of the CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) due to a homosexual activist group sponsoring the event.

GOProud, a group that advocates same-sex "marriage," a repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and "expanding access to domestic partner benefits" for homosexuals, is listed as a sponsor of the event at CPAC's website.

Mr. Robinson has joined a number of conservative activists including Liberty University Chancellor Jerry Falwell, Jr., Liberty Counsel founder and chairman Mat Staver, and Gary Glenn, president of the American Family Association of Michigan in their efforts.

On a reply to an article about the boycott, Mr. Robinson stated "I’ll join that boycott. If CPAC is no longer for conservative family values then I want nothing to do with them. They’ll have to change their name to HOMOPAC." "

Free Republic Founder joins boycott of CPAC

Republicans are going to have to learn to take their support where they get it. GOPAC, in advocating for gay partner benefits, end of military DADT, is not advocating for gay marriage as such, the one red line that social conservatives need to defend.

Gays have other interests in life than winning the right to marry. Tax laws do matter. Right-to-work matters. We do have common interests.

388 lostlakehiker  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 7:16:24pm

re: #363 Ojoe

Regarding "entitlements":

Well I want to pull my own weight & provide for my family as well, but here is a government "handout" story for you: Our first kid was born 2 months premature; my wife had a rare and dangerous form of toxemia which was diagnosed in the nick of time; we drove to UC Med & had the kid delivered by cesarian less than 24 hrs after they figured what was going on, & the kid was in the preemie ward almost 3 weeks. No way we could pay for all that. The state picked up the tab. But for our part we have never stinted in raising our kids as productive and responsible citizens. Now they are taller and stronger than either of us. And I think it all balances out in the end.

And this one year long shouting match about health care distresses me, because I really think that there should be a certain basic level of practical compassion in our country & there is not, and it is not so much a failure of government as it is a failure of the economic elite, and yes, of the common citizen too.

But that is precisely the kind of unstinting help society does owe to those who get hit by a ton of bricks. There's no issue of "moral hazard" here. No one is going to be tempted to try to wangle for themselves THAT kind of "benefit". And this kind of help has ALWAYS been forthcoming.

In the bad old days when people didn't have insurance, the hospital would have settled for a token payment, and that, paid in installments.

389 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 21, 2009 10:59:38pm

re: #377 The Sanity Inspector

There are other people besides bloggers, pundits, talk show hosts, and tea partiers who are conservatives, Sharm. Don't lose hope.

So- the best thing you can give me to be proud of is I'm not alone? Ducky.

390 BSphenom  Tue, Dec 22, 2009 3:47:59am

Just reading through this Pawlenty softball interview. At the end, Newsweek praises him for balancing the Minnesota state budget, which of course is only true if you include the billions of dollars from the Stimulus which Pawlenty vehemently opposes (now).

Reading his views on social issues is just disturbing, and shows where the current Retheologican Party stands. Sad...

391 Vambo  Tue, Dec 22, 2009 12:55:03pm

re: #290 simoom

I hope this talking point trial balloon doesn't catch on: using "jahidists" and "jihad" in political rhetoric to describe your opponents and their policy goals.


[Video]It's both an appeal to anti-muslim sentiment and an attempt at transfering it to the political target.

that just makes me sick, not only the careless and calculated use "jihad" but the "jihad for 70 years". because health care reform, (in general, including everything that has been proposed over the almost-century) = Holy War? and she gets paid to spread this garbage on national television!

I see the Cryptkeeper sitting next to her. too bad, we need more people like Anthony Wiener to call out this think tank bullsh!t.


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