Congressional Report: ACORN Broke No Laws

More bad news for right wingers who think ACORN is the very embodiment of evil, as a congressional report totally exonerates them.

The controversial community organizing group Acorn has not broken any laws in the last five years, according to a Congressional Research Service report released Tuesday evening.

The report, requested by Representative John Conyers, Democrat of Michigan, said that federal agencies, mainly the Departments of Justice and Housing and Urban Development, have awarded money to the group 48 times since 2005. But, in none of those instances did Acorn violate the terms of their funding, the report said.

Since the 2008 elections, the group, which works primarily to expand voter registration and affordable housing, has become a key Republican target. A series of scandals brought to light by conservative activists led to multiple Congressional hearings and repeated attempts to deny it taxpayer funding.

Acorn has been the subject of scores of investigations—a total of 46 inquiries by federal, state, and local agencies, including the FBI and the Treasury Department, and five by Congress as of October 2009, according to the report.

The report found no evidence that voters attempting to cast ballots at the polls had been improperly registered by Acorn, a chief Republican accusation.

And the hits keep on coming, because the makers of those heavily edited “sting” videos endlessly hyped on Fox News and right wing blogs may be in serious legal trouble.

The report also said that a sting-style effort to publicize the group’s allegedly illegal activities, may have broken state laws. Two conservative activists set off a firestorm in September when they posed as a pimp and a prostitute seeking financial advice and secretly videotaped Acorn employees offering advice on how the couple could hide their illicit activities and avoid paying taxes.

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439 comments

1 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:23:53pm

Breitbart does not approve of this thread.

2 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:25:07pm

ACOOOOOORRRRRNNNNN!
/Captain James Tiberius Kirk

3 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:29:14pm

From my knowledge of California laws, they definitely broke them here, not for the editing-- which is just low-- but the recording without consent in the first place.

(I think).

4 allegro  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:29:47pm

Thank you, Charles. I so appreciate you for helping to eviscerate this nonsense.

5 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:34:21pm

This is good... now we can go on to the next outrage.

6 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:35:07pm

The people out to demonize Acorn have wasted a lot of time.

7 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:36:10pm

There's another story making the wingnut outrage rounds, about an Obama executive order that extended diplomatic privileges to Interpol. They're freaking out over a fantasy that this will let Interpol arrest US citizens on US soil.

I haven't even started looking into it yet, but my BS detector is redlining.

8 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:37:19pm

re: #7 Charles

There's another story making the wingnut outrage rounds, about an Obama executive order that extended diplomatic privileges to Interpol. They're freaking out over a fantasy that this will let Interpol arrest US citizens on US soil.

I haven't even started looking into it yet, but my BS detector is redlining.

The Story originated with Alex Jones and the Paulians about a week ago. I don't even bother looking into this stuff anymore.

9 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:38:15pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

The Story originated with Alex Jones and the Paulians about a week ago. I don't even bother looking into this stuff anymore.

It's amazing. Wingnut blogs are getting their outrage fixes these days directly from raving loons.

10 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:38:37pm

re: #1 freetoken

Breitbart does not approve of this thread.

It is obviously the work of the Lesbian Studies Cabal™.

//

11 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:41:00pm
12 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:41:23pm

re: #10 Gus 802

It is obviously the work of the Lesbian Studies Cabal™.

//

Whoa, that claim needs to be investigated...er, huh, did I say that out loud?
/

13 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:41:28pm

there are 700 workers for the CRS....who are they? and what's to say they find what they are told to find?....they work for Congress, itself a bunch of thieves and liars and most of them are Democrats...I'm dubious

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:42:06pm

Years ago, I was on a largely Orthodox Jewish site, everyone arguing away about something, when someone popped on and said "It's 2 AM in New York. Are all your wives in niddah at once? Go to bed!!"

Now, I know what I'm doing on LGF at a quarter to six on Christmas Eve. I'm waiting for the boiled yams to be cool enough to handle, and my husband is taking a nap. What's you guyses excuse?

15 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:42:08pm

Thanks Charles, for the link back to your post about the editing of the Acorn "sting" video. I missed it.

I hope they have to go to court and show all the footage.....But on the other hand I don't, this is a total waste of wingnut/scapegoat time.

16 darthstar  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:42:50pm

re: #7 Charles

There's another story making the wingnut outrage rounds, about an Obama executive order that extended diplomatic privileges to Interpol. They're freaking out over a fantasy that this will let Interpol arrest US citizens on US soil.

I haven't even started looking into it yet, but my BS detector is redlining.

Is there a new James Bond movie out or something? Lara Croft? Smurfs? Any of those would be a more logical explanation than the orifice from which the wingnuts are pulling these stories.

17 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:43:06pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Years ago, I was on a largely Orthodox Jewish site, everyone arguing away about something, when someone popped on and said "It's 2 AM in New York. Are all your wives in niddah at once? Go to bed!!"

Now, I know what I'm doing on LGF at a quarter to six on Christmas Eve. I'm waiting for the boiled yams to be cool enough to handle, and my husband is taking a nap. What's you guyses excuse?

Mushroom soup on simmer. No need for me yet.

18 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:43:08pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Years ago, I was on a largely Orthodox Jewish site, everyone arguing away about something, when someone popped on and said "It's 2 AM in New York. Are all your wives in niddah at once? Go to bed!!"

Now, I know what I'm doing on LGF at a quarter to six on Christmas Eve. I'm waiting for the boiled yams to be cool enough to handle, and my husband is taking a nap. What's you guyses excuse?

What site was this, if I may ask?

19 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:43:55pm

re: #9 Charles

It's amazing. Wingnut blogs are getting their outrage fixes these days directly from raving loons.

gotta have the 'choice quality stuff'

20 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:44:33pm

re: #13 albusteve

there are 700 workers for the CRS...who are they? and what's to say they find what they are told to find?...they work for Congress, itself a bunch of thieves and liars and most of them are Democrats...I'm dubious

As am I. Pelosi, Reid, and their crew have a vested interest in ACORN beating the rap. Even if ACORN didn't break the law on this, it is still a rotten leftist organization.

21 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:45:36pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Years ago, I was on a largely Orthodox Jewish site, everyone arguing away about something, when someone popped on and said "It's 2 AM in New York. Are all your wives in niddah at once? Go to bed!!"

Now, I know what I'm doing on LGF at a quarter to six on Christmas Eve. I'm waiting for the boiled yams to be cool enough to handle, and my husband is taking a nap. What's you guyses excuse?

I'm a curmudgeon in real life and my family is 1000s of miles away. Just had my forth hot dog on wheat with mustard.

22 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:46:05pm

re: #18 Alouette

What site was this, if I may ask?

DovBear.

23 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:46:22pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

Are you being satirical? Even if they didn't break the law, they're still bad?
They register people to vote, right?

24 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:46:29pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

As am I. Pelosi, Reid, and their crew have a vested interest in ACORN beating the rap. Even if ACORN didn't break the law on this, it is still a rotten leftist organization.

who are the 700 people?...

25 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:46:48pm

re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist

DovBear.

I know that site. Don't visit it much, I mostly camp out here.

26 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:47:10pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Are you being satirical? Even if they didn't break the law, they're still bad?
They register people to vote, right?

yeah, over and over again

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:47:13pm

re: #21 Gus 802

I'm a curmudgeon in real life and my family is 1000s of miles away. Just had my forth hot dog on wheat with mustard.

You should have come over here. I have artichokes.

28 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:47:41pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Just me & the roommate here. No family. Roomie's watching TV. I don't like the teevee. Dinner in a bit. Shrimp cocktails. YUM!

29 darthstar  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:48:25pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

I'm more worried about their parent group, the Organization of Anarchist Koalas (OAK).

30 badger1970  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:48:25pm

Broken the law, no. Questionable ethics, yes.

31 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:49:37pm

re: #30 badger1970

Broken the law, no. Questionable ethics, yes.

Incompetence and poor management: yes.

32 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:50:51pm

Who's drinking eggnog and what's your recipe?

I remember loving eggnog as a kid. Now it makes me gag.

33 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:51:00pm

Sure enough -- Ed Morrissey is pimping the bogus Interpol story, and Hot Air commenters are calling for violent revolution again.

34 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:51:13pm

re: #21 Gus 802

Well, my closest family members are thousands of miles away too... later (tomorrow) probably I'll get together with some old friends, but for tonight, I'm probably going to be working on some web stuff, might even pull the trigger on picking a web host.

35 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:51:56pm

re: #29 darthstar

I'm more worried about their parent group, the Organization of Anarchist Koalas (OAK).

They're bad news all right. They started in Australia and promoted the collectivization of eucalyptus trees.

/

36 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:52:37pm

re: #33 Charles

Sure enough -- Ed Morrissey is pimping the bogus Interpol story, and Hot Air commenters are calling for violent revolution again.

Anything worth of inclusion in a "Hot Air Comments" thread?

37 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:52:58pm

re: #33 Charles

Sure enough -- Ed Morrissey is pimping the bogus Interpol story, and Hot Air commenters are calling for violent revolution again.

Geez, everything is a cause for a violent uprising among those idiots at H.A...

38 badger1970  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:53:04pm

re: #31 Alouette

touche

39 darthstar  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:53:23pm

re: #35 Dark_Falcon

They're bad news all right. They started in Australia and promoted the collectivization of eucalyptus trees.

/

Okay...you had me worried for a second. I pictured you sitting at home cleaning your paint-ball guns and imagining a heroic quest to save people at the Dairy Queen drive-thru.

40 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:53:43pm

re: #33 Charles

They're so far into group-think that I doubt you or anyone can reach them. This is the internet version of the Jim Jones church - let's just hope that the self immolation will similarly be only with avatars and not in the physical world.

41 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:53:44pm

re: #32 Alouette

Who's drinking eggnog and what's your recipe?

I remember loving eggnog as a kid. Now it makes me gag.

I like it with Jameson and I'm having it tonight without the eggnog.

42 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:53:51pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Are you being satirical? Even if they didn't break the law, they're still bad?
They register people to vote, right?

No, I am quite serious. ACORN is an organization dedicated to moving this country far to the left. Thus they are inherently bad in my eyes.

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:54:11pm

re: #37 Varek Raith

Geez, everything is a cause for a violent uprising among those idiots at H.A...

They just want a violent uprising, and don't much care how they get it.

44 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:54:11pm

re: #30 badger1970

Broken the law, no. Questionable ethics, yes.

there is stuff like this all over the net...re: #30 badger1970

"We are actually trespassing, and so this is a way of civil disobedience to try to stay in the house," said Beverly. "Legally it's wrong, but homesteading is the only means that she has left to stay in her house. And we feel as though this is the right thing to do at this particular time to save this family.

[Link: www.tennisforum.com...]

45 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:54:17pm

re: #33 Charles

Merry Christmas, Charles!
I hope you have a nice, relaxing day!

46 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:54:40pm

If Acorn broke no laws, then why were they apologizing like crazy after the sting tapes?

47 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:54:47pm

re: #41 Mad Al-Jaffee

I like it with Jameson and I'm having it tonight without the eggnog.

Why would anyone ruin perfectly good scotch by pouring it into eggnog.

48 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:56:00pm

re: #46 Big Steve

If Acorn broke no laws, then why were they apologizing like crazy after the sting tapes?

If they knowingly broke laws, they wouldn't feel compelled to apologize. Did Kwame Kilpatrick every apologize for anything?

49 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:56:16pm

re: #46 Big Steve

If Acorn broke no laws, then why were they apologizing like crazy after the sting tapes?

They may have assumed the tapes were unedited, and apologized for what they heard their employees saying, which, face it, was pretty hair-raising.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:56:55pm

re: #48 Alouette

If they knowingly broke laws, they wouldn't feel compelled to apologize. Did Kwame Kilpatrick every apologize for anything?

Well, Kwame Kilpatrick is a sociopath, whereas I suspect most of the ACORN people aren't.

51 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 5:57:09pm

re: #46 Big Steve

If Acorn broke no laws, then why were they apologizing like crazy after the sting tapes?

the CRS works directly for Congress...go figure

52 darthstar  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:00:07pm

re: #46 Big Steve

If Acorn broke no laws, then why were they apologizing like crazy after the sting tapes?

As a non-profit organization that doesn't pay great wages, they don't always get to hire the most educated people. The women caught by that Vanilla-Ice "pimp" and his Brittany Spears "hooker" on tape were obviously not very bright, and were just giving the same responses they would to someone who was doing baby-sitting business and wanted advice. They were being non judgemental, even though the guy was talking about an illegal activity. Could be they were aware of what actual pimps are capable of and figured it was better to give straight answers and get the idiot out of their office than risk angering him.

53 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:00:16pm

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

No, I am quite serious. ACORN is an organization dedicated to moving this country far to the left. Thus they are inherently bad in my eyes.

Well, I don't know what to say. FIrst of all, I don't think there is a 'right/left' axis in any real sense, so your comment seems simplistic. In the second, I cannot see registering people to vote as a bad thing.

Finally, I know that ACORN focuses on minority groups that traditionally vote Democrat, but there is no reason to believe those groups are unreachable by conservatives, if the conservatives actually sell their message, explain their ideas, and display leadership. If you want ACORN to not move the country to the left, you have to appeal to the people that they register to vote. ACORN is not the problem.

54 badger1970  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:00:28pm

re: #44 albusteve

Who defines the law? Even when the perpetrators admit to knowingly breaking the law and yet nothing is done all we get is a collective, so what?

ACORN is going to keep on getting taxpayer funding whether I like it or not.

55 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:00:52pm

Oh, good grief. The ignorance of Morrissey's post is giving me a headache.

He writes:

It does mean, though, that Interpol officers would have diplomatic immunity for any lawbreaking conducted in the US at a time when Interpol nations (like Italy) have attempted to try American intelligence agents for their work in the war on terror, a rather interesting double standard.

There's no such thing as an "Interpol officer." UN members such as the US, Canada, etc., supply law enforcement officers to Interpol -- Interpol does not HAVE its own force of "officers." And the officers supplied by member states to Interpol have no transnational authority to arrest people.

This came from Alex Jones, then was picked up by Andrew McCarthy at National Review (who also promoted the Birther craziness) and every right wing blogger is now hyperventilating over it.

56 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:01:38pm

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, Kwame Kilpatrick is a sociopath, whereas I suspect most of the ACORN people aren't.

the CRS claims ACORN did not violate the terms of their funding but did not state what those terms are

57 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:02:32pm

re: #54 badger1970

Who defines the law? Even when the perpetrators admit to knowingly breaking the law and yet nothing is done all we get is a collective, so what?

ACORN is going to keep on getting taxpayer funding whether I like it or not.

the courts define the law

58 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:02:35pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Years ago, I was on a largely Orthodox Jewish site, everyone arguing away about something, when someone popped on and said "It's 2 AM in New York. Are all your wives in niddah at once? Go to bed!!"

Now, I know what I'm doing on LGF at a quarter to six on Christmas Eve. I'm waiting for the boiled yams to be cool enough to handle, and my husband is taking a nap. What's you guyses excuse?

It's three in the morning here. And Santa's been stuck in the chimney since midnight, making such a racket that I can't sleep.

59 darthstar  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:03:27pm

re: #55 Charles

Morrissey sounds like the kind of person who thinks Walter Mitty really did do battle with all of the imaginary foes in his head.

60 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:03:49pm

re: #58 ryannon

It's three in the morning here. And Santa's been stuck in the chimney since midnight, making such a racket that I can't sleep.

And you didn't help him?!?! Won't someone think of the children!1!??
/

61 irving  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:03:55pm

re: #11 Charles

Pope tackled by crazy woman.

Hmm. Wasn't the fellow who threw a statue at Berlosconi also "mentally unstable"? Does Italy have a problem keeping its asylum doors locked, or is anyone else's BS detector smelling something foul?

62 darthstar  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:04:05pm

re: #57 albusteve

the courts define the law

Would those be 'activist' judges?
/

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:04:28pm

re: #55 Charles

Oh, good grief. The ignorance of Morrissey's post is giving me a headache.

He writes:


There's no such thing as an "Interpol officer." UN members such as the US, Canada, etc., supply law enforcement officers to Interpol -- Interpol does not HAVE its own force of "officers." And the officers supplied by members states to Interpol have no transnational authority to arrest people.

This came from Alex Jones, then was picked up by Andrew McCarthy at National Review (who also promoted the Birther craziness) and every right wing blogger is now hyperventilating over it.

What exactly is an "Interpol nation" anyway?

64 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:04:40pm

re: #46 Big Steve

If Acorn broke no laws, then why were they apologizing like crazy after the sting tapes?

And didn't they fire several employees?

65 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:04:54pm

re: #62 darthstar

Would those be 'activist' judges?
/

what's an activist judge?

66 charlz  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:05:20pm

re: #34 freetoken

I'm probably going to be working on some web stuff, might even pull the trigger on picking a web host.

I recently signed up with webfaction.com and have been quite pleased so far. Free install of the latest version of the Drupal LAMP stack and technical support has replied to emails in under 15 minutes. If you decide within a month that they're not for you for any reason there's a full refund of the subscription. Very reasonably priced plans, too.

67 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:05:38pm

It's good ACORN is finally exonerated, now they should get their funding restored.

68 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:05:39pm

Acorn is a community group. The people in the office are people from the community. They try to help their community. All they did was register a lot of black people (people of their community) to vote. That pissed people off, and created this boogie man, capable of, well, everything bad.

I know this is very simplistic, but it's little ole me talking here. We can get into details and more details, there are other views of course, but to me, this is why the demagogy started and continues.

69 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:05:49pm

re: #53 Obdicut

Well, I don't know what to say. FIrst of all, I don't think there is a 'right/left' axis in any real sense, so your comment seems simplistic. In the second, I cannot see registering people to vote as a bad thing.

Finally, I know that ACORN focuses on minority groups that traditionally vote Democrat, but there is no reason to believe those groups are unreachable by conservatives, if the conservatives actually sell their message, explain their ideas, and display leadership. If you want ACORN to not move the country to the left, you have to appeal to the people that they register to vote. ACORN is not the problem.

Registering people to vote is not all ACORN does. They also push left wing agenda items such as the "living wage" (which drives up unemployment), and sub-prime lending (via the Community Reinvestment Act, which helped cause the mortgage meltdown). No, ACORN's agenda is one of redistribution and statism and such an agenda is very bad in my eyes.

70 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:05:51pm

re: #55 Charles

Oh, good grief. The ignorance of Morrissey's post is giving me a headache.

He writes:

There's no such thing as an "Interpol officer." UN members such as the US, Canada, etc., supply law enforcement officers to Interpol -- Interpol does not HAVE its own force of "officers." And the officers supplied by members states to Interpol have no transnational authority to arrest people.

This came from Alex Jones, then was picked up by Andrew McCarthy at National Review (who also promoted the Birther craziness) and every right wing blogger is now hyperventilating over it.

But, but, I read in a Scarpetta novel that Interpol has its own agents! Including some serial killers!

/

71 darthstar  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:05:57pm

re: #65 albusteve

what's an activist judge?

Anyone who doesn't agree with the far-right, of course.

72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:06:28pm

Love you guys. Had my beer. Going to stop while I am not sounding more stupid.

Charles? Here's to you.

Thanks.

73 recusancy  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:06:34pm

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

What exactly is an "Interpol nation" anyway?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

74 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:06:36pm

Wikipedia on Interpol...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

75 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:06:51pm

re: #73 recusancy

GMTA!

76 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:06:57pm

re: #60 Varek Raith

And you didn't help him?!?! Won't someone think of the children!1!??
/

Well, it's sort of like being an atheist.

I don't believe in Santa Claus.

Sorry, kids.

77 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:07:19pm

re: #66 charlz

thanks

78 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:07:46pm

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Love you guys. Had my beer. Going to stop while I am not sounding more stupid.

Charles? Here's to you.

Thanks.

Cheers! I'm about to pop the cork on a Duvel ale myself.

79 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:07:56pm

re: #69 Dark_Falcon

I'm sorry, but I don't think blaming ACORN for the housing meltdown makes a lick of sense. I also am in favor of a living wage and more low-income housing being built (In San Francisco, anyway), so I guess I'm just a big ol' statist in your eyes, and inherently bad.

80 recusancy  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:08:01pm

re: #65 albusteve

what's an activist judge?

A judge who comes to a decision with which you don't agree.

81 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:08:12pm

re: #71 darthstar

Anyone who doesn't agree with the far-right, of course.

so what's your point?...do you have one?, besides defining activist judges?

82 Olsonist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:08:55pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

I just lost to my Mom at Scrabble--on the last play. Weariful was finished off by id.

83 abolitionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:09:07pm

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

No, I am quite serious. ACORN is an organization dedicated to moving this country far to the left. Thus they are inherently bad in my eyes.

It was videos of some of the speakers (at the podium) at some ACORN conference last year that convinced me, saying things like "We need regime change now..."

Then I found they are very much an international organization.

84 SixDegrees  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:09:30pm

Well, my Linux installation went more smoothly than I had planned. Everything seems to be working except sound, and that's only broken in a couple of applications - a minor miracle in the Linuxverse. So I'm quitting while I'm ahead.

I'll probably be around tomorrow, sporadically, as bouts with the new kitten and wrapping paper, a big ol' block of English Stilton and crackers, and prepping a new but simple ham recipe for dinner permit. But if I'm absent, here's wishing a Merry Christmas to y'all!

85 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:10:17pm

re: #80 recusancy

A judge who comes to a decision with which you don't agree.

I'm not making decisions here...I'm raising questions...what's your point about judges who in fact interpret the law

86 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:10:59pm

re: #33 Charles

Sure enough -- Ed Morrissey is pimping the bogus Interpol story, and Hot Air commenters are calling for violent revolution again.

Saw that. Looks like he's pimping some quasi libertarian group in another article, Sam Adam Alliance. It's a Tea Party and Beckist type groups run by John Tsarpalas. Same connections with American Liberty Alliance, Odom, and other similar groups. Astroturfers. The big money behind this is Charles G. Koch. (Sam Adams Alliance internship through the Charles G. Koch Summer Fellow Program) And yes, he is the brother of David Koch and they're both the sons of John Birch Society Founder Fred C. Koch.

87 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:11:49pm

re: #78 Charles

Have you considered a "premium" membership, with a subscription fee?
One of my "floral" sites had great success with that idea.

88 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:11:51pm

re: #79 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but I don't think blaming ACORN for the housing meltdown makes a lick of sense. I also am in favor of a living wage and more low-income housing being built (In San Francisco, anyway), so I guess I'm just a big ol' statist in your eyes, and inherently bad.

Lift-winger, yes. Bad, no. Another part of what I hate about ACORN is the way they protest in front of people's homes if said people oppose them, the thuggish way they take over meetings and try to shout down those who disagree with them, and the lies they tell to get their way. You do not do any of those things.

89 recusancy  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:11:52pm

re: #85 albusteve

I'm not making decisions here...I'm raising questions...what's your point about judges who in fact interpret the law

You asked a question. I answered it. My point is anybody who disagrees with what a judge does usually calls the judge an 'activist'.

90 suchislife  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:11:58pm

re: #61 irving

Hmm. Wasn't the fellow who threw a statue at Berlosconi also "mentally unstable"? Does Italy have a problem keeping its asylum doors locked, or is anyone else's BS detector smelling something foul?


I'm not sure you were serious, but that's a really interesting topic.
"the 1978 Italian mental health law is the only one, in the Western industrialized world, in which: 1) patient's dangerousness is not used as a criterion for commitment, and compulsory admission is restricted to therapeutic emergency cases; 2) it is established that compulsory admission of psychiatric patients must be implemented in general hospitals; 3) prolonged hospitalizations are discouraged, by stating that compulsory treatment should last as a rule seven days; 4) it is sanctioned the abolishment of mental hospitals."
[Link: www3.interscience.wiley.com...]

91 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:12:12pm

re: #86 Gus 802

Man, you can really tell a lot about people if they prefer Sam Adams to John Adams.

92 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:12:14pm

re: #86 Gus 802

Just goes to show, money can buy/create political movements.

93 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:12:14pm

re: #86 Gus 802

Saw that. Looks like he's pimping some quasi libertarian group in another article, Sam Adam Alliance. It's a Tea Party and Beckist type groups run by John Tsarpalas. Same connections with American Liberty Alliance, Odom, and other similar groups. Astroturfers. The big money behind this is Charles G. Koch. (Sam Adams Alliance internship through the Charles G. Koch Summer Fellow Program) And yes, he is the brother of David Koch and they're both the sons of John Birch Society Founder Fred C. Koch.

Ugh.

Anyone still wondering why I want nothing to do with those people? They've totally lost their shit.

94 charlz  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:12:39pm

re: #24 albusteve

who are the 700 people?...

well there's Joe, and Kurt, and Tricia, and ....

Seriously, what do you want to know? They are Federal government employees, including economists, lawyers, and all kinds of subject matter experts, many of whom have worked under Democratic and Republican control. Like the rank and file throughout the government, most try to do a professional job for whoever the temporary bosses are.

95 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:12:58pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

Okay. I am unconvinced that ACORN, as a whole, does those things, however. I think there has been a consistent campaign to discredit them, and I am not willing to believe what I hear about them after the really obvious sting smear attempt was revealed to be phony.

96 badger1970  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:13:09pm

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

Something from a James Bond flick?

97 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:13:10pm

re: #84 SixDegrees

Well, my Linux installation went more smoothly than I had planned. Everything seems to be working except sound, and that's only broken in a couple of applications - a minor miracle in the Linuxverse. So I'm quitting while I'm ahead.

I'll probably be around tomorrow, sporadically, as bouts with the new kitten and wrapping paper, a big ol' block of English Stilton and crackers, and prepping a new but simple ham recipe for dinner permit. But if I'm absent, here's wishing a Merry Christmas to y'all!

SixDegrees can has kitteh?

98 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:14:15pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

(snip)
Now, I know what I'm doing on LGF at a quarter to six on Christmas Eve. I'm waiting for the boiled yams to be cool enough to handle, and my husband is taking a nap. What's you guyses excuse?

We already did our "kid Christmas" so they could be w/ in-laws this year. Wife just got back from playing at evening Mass. So, have a good Christmas, all.

99 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:14:24pm

These connections to wackos and Birchers are going to bite the GOP in the ass, big time. I'm seeing all these people predicting big wins for the Republican Party next November -- I think they're going to have huge losses. We're about to see a Democratic majority in government for the next 20 years, and at this point that will be a good thing, because the GOP has gone insane.

100 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:14:32pm

re: #89 recusancy

You asked a question. I answered it. My point is anybody who disagrees with what a judge does usually calls the judge an 'activist'.

so what's that got to do with anything?...activist judges was brought up by someone else, not me...I could care less about activist judges at the moment....your pile on is really clumsy since there is no pile

101 MandyManners  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:14:55pm

re: #76 ryannon

Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a sceptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies. You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus?Thank God he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

102 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:15:18pm

re: #93 Charles

Ugh.

Anyone still wondering why I want nothing to do with those people? They've totally lost their shit.

Only took about 5 minutes to find out. The Koch family is a big funder of these group.

[Link: www.muckety.com...]

The amazing thing is the connection to the JBS and the resurgence of said group. It's not an accident that the JBS is sponsoring CPAC. The beast has been unleashed.

103 recusancy  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:15:27pm

re: #100 albusteve

so what's that got to do with anything?...activist judges was brought up by someone else, not me...I could care less about activist judges at the moment...your pile on is really clumsy since there is no pile

Quit being so sensitive. I wasn't piling on anything.

104 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:15:32pm

re: #94 charlz

well there's Joe, and Kurt, and Tricia, and ...

Seriously, what do you want to know? They are Federal government employees, including economists, lawyers, and all kinds of subject matter experts, many of whom have worked under Democratic and Republican control. Like the rank and file throughout the government, most try to do a professional job for whoever the temporary bosses are.

vanilla...not good enough

105 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:15:33pm

re: #95 Obdicut

Okay. I am unconvinced that ACORN, as a whole, does those things, however. I think there has been a consistent campaign to discredit them, and I am not willing to believe what I hear about them after the really obvious sting smear attempt was revealed to be phony.

Here's an old article about ACORN. This one was where I learned about just how nasty they are:

ACORN’s Nutty Regime for Cities

106 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:15:38pm

*popcorn time*

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:15:53pm

re: #71 darthstar

Anyone who doesn't agree with the far-right, of course.

Technically, an activist judge is any judge who makes a ruling with which the person speaking disagrees, and therefore believes could not have been made with honest regard to the law, but only out of a secret, and probably evil, agenda. It can apply to both sides of the political spectrum, although the term is more often used on the right side of said spectrum.

108 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:16:02pm

re: #101 MandyManners

Of course there is a Santy Claws! Some little kid saw Zedushka at CVS picking up his meds.

109 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:17:27pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

But why do you believe that article?

110 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:18:16pm

re: #103 recusancy

Quit being so sensitive. I wasn't piling on anything.

I'm not sensitive...I wondered why you and the other guy drifted from ACORN employees admitting they broke the law to "activist judges"...some sort of dodge?

111 recusancy  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:19:01pm

re: #109 Obdicut

But why do you believe that article?

Cause it was written by the Manhattan Institute. Why would a partisan think tank's article be anything but above water? ;)

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:19:19pm

re: #95 Obdicut

Okay. I am unconvinced that ACORN, as a whole, does those things, however. I think there has been a consistent campaign to discredit them, and I am not willing to believe what I hear about them after the really obvious sting smear attempt was revealed to be phony.

This is my problem. I have run across groups such as ACORN in the past, and honestly haven't been all that impressed with them. But this group has, on the one hand, been built up into this huge monster, and on the other hand, some really scuzzy, stupid and dishonest things have been done by people who want to discredit them. It's hard for me to figure out what's real. Or care very much. Seriously. If you have to dress up like a pimp, and then edit the tapes, to get some dirt on these people, my belief that the dirt is really exciting is gonna drop.

113 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:19:50pm

re: #99 Charles

These connections to wackos and Birchers are going to bite the GOP in the ass, big time. I'm seeing all these people predicting big wins for the Republican Party next November -- I think they're going to have huge losses. We're about to see a Democratic majority in government for the next 20 years, and at this point that will be a good thing, because the GOP has gone insane.

I don't think it's such a good thing for the world's last superpower to have such a lop-sided political process. The GOP deserves to be out of power right now, but I hope this nightmare train wreck is over sooner rather than later, because this country needs vibrant and viable political choices from more than one side of the political spectrum.

114 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:19:52pm

re: #99 Charles

These connections to wackos and Birchers are going to bite the GOP in the ass, big time. I'm seeing all these people predicting big wins for the Republican Party next November -- I think they're going to have huge losses. We're about to see a Democratic majority in government for the next 20 years, and at this point that will be a good thing, because the GOP has gone insane.

I don't agree. It think the GOP will make modest gains. The weirdo will cause some harm, but there will be enough good candidates and disgust with the Dems to cancel it out. However, if saidsame nuts proceed to force the GOP to engage entirely in protest politics in 2011-2012, then the GOP will see a large loss in 2012 and Obama will cruise to victory. Either way, my home state of Illinois has some excellent Republican candidates who are not crazies. I'm going to help them get elected in the small ways that I can help and then do what I can to make sure they stay same.

115 Randall Gross  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:20:50pm

My mom's in cancer treatment up in Seattle, and she's staying at a pretty good hospice/residence... it's sponsored by Acorn. They are not wholly evil .

116 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:21:40pm

re: #92 freetoken

Just goes to show, money can buy/create political movements.

Speaking of big money. Here's Charles and David Koch working with guess who? George Soros:

Koch, along with his brother Charles, George Soros, the Ford Foundation, and the Rockefeller Foundation, each contributed $10 million to the ACLU to defeat parts of the USA PATRIOT Act. [7] Parts 15, 16, 17 of the act were then overturned in US Federal Court in the Southern District of New York. Marion Bowman, chief legal counsel of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, vowed to take this decision to the US Appeals Court.

In an interesting way, ACORN looks like chump change compared to these crypto-ideologue billionaires working in the background.

So we see the Koch brother will pour money into Tea Party type movements and the ACLU. Of course this is all done out of self interest.

117 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:21:46pm

What would be helpful in this country would be more organizations like ACORN to help improve the AA community.

118 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:21:58pm

re: #113 Sharmuta

I don't think it's such a good thing for the world's last superpower to have such a lop-sided political process. The GOP deserves to be out of power right now, but I hope this nightmare train wreck is over sooner rather than later, because this country needs vibrant and viable political choices from more than one side of the political spectrum.

no one knows what's gonna happen...not Charles or Palin or me or you...the thought of a liberal govt for twenty years gives me the shivers...a very bad thing

119 Mark Pennington  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:22:02pm

A lot of damage was done for purely political reasons. Stay on this, Charles because you're on the right track and there is more to come.

120 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:22:03pm

Meanwhile, I continue getting emails like this, with the title: 'Abbas murdered 7 Jews today' ...

Remember when you cared? It wasn't that long ago.

Just one problem. "Seven Jews" were not murdered today. There was a drive-by shooting in the West Bank that killed one person, and that's horrible enough. But the murdered man was the father of 7.

So the hater who emailed didn't even understand what the article he was reading actually said -- he just couldn't wait to express his hatred for me.

And not a single right wing blog even notices or cares that Michelle Malkin is linking to openly antisemitic articles at a white nationalist website.

121 recusancy  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:22:24pm

re: #117 Bagua

What would be helpful in this country would be more organizations like ACORN to help improve the AA community.

hu?

122 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:22:34pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

I don't agree. It think the GOP will make modest gains. The weirdo will cause some harm, but there will be enough good candidates and disgust with the Dems to cancel it out. However, if saidsame nuts proceed to force the GOP to engage entirely in protest politics in 2011-2012, then the GOP will see a large loss in 2012 and Obama will cruise to victory. Either way, my home state of Illinois has some excellent Republican candidates who are not crazies. I'm going to help them get elected in the small ways that I can help and then do what I can to make sure they stay same.

I agree more with Charles than you- they will get their butts handed to them. However- I fully support you working hard in the system to get reasonable republicans back in office- please stick with it.

123 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:23:12pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

I don't agree. It think the GOP will make modest gains. The weirdo will cause some harm, but there will be enough good candidates and disgust with the Dems to cancel it out. However, if saidsame nuts proceed to force the GOP to engage entirely in protest politics in 2011-2012, then the GOP will see a large loss in 2012 and Obama will cruise to victory. Either way, my home state of Illinois has some excellent Republican candidates who are not crazies. I'm going to help them get elected in the small ways that I can help and then do what I can to make sure they stay same.

Agreed. There will likely be a swing of the pendulum. Obama is on track to becoming a lame duck next year.

124 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:23:21pm

re: #111 recusancy

Cause it was written by the Manhattan Institute. Why would a partisan think tank's article be anything but above water? ;)

The Manhattan Institute is the place from which Rudy Giuliani's highly successful "Broken Windows" policing strategy was born. That plus this excellent coverage of urban issue has long had me as a fan of them. City Journal is an excellent publication that has so far remained free of Bad Craziness.

125 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:23:27pm

re: #115 Thanos

My mom's in cancer treatment up in Seattle, and she's staying at a pretty good hospice/residence... it's sponsored by Acorn. They are not wholly evil .

good for you and her...ACORN is huge and not likely to be corrupt from top to bottom, nation wide

126 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:23:43pm

re: #115 Thanos

Best of luck to your mom, and remember to take care of yourself, as well.

127 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:24:24pm

re: #121 recusancy

hu?

What?

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:24:31pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Years ago, I was on a largely Orthodox Jewish site, everyone arguing away about something, when someone popped on and said "It's 2 AM in New York. Are all your wives in niddah at once? Go to bed!!"

Now, I know what I'm doing on LGF at a quarter to six on Christmas Eve. I'm waiting for the boiled yams to be cool enough to handle, and my husband is taking a nap. What's you guyses excuse?

I'm at work. :D And I'll be at work tomorrow too!

And watching Star Wars. It's pretty slow today.

/I'm going to Tashi station to pick up some power converters

129 Baier  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:25:43pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

The Manhattan Institute is the place from which Rudy Giuliani's highly successful "Broken Windows" policing strategy was born. That plus this excellent coverage of urban issue has long had me as a fan of them. City Journal is an excellent publication that has so far remained free of Bad Craziness.

Rudy came to my daughters day care in Harlem yesterday read a story and gave everyone presents. He gave my daughter a stuffed dog from FAO Swartz. I couldn't get off work to go meet him, but apparently he comes every year, so I'm going next year.

130 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:26:08pm

Well, we have someone in the spin-offs arguing that Obama has a war going on against the elderly and disabled.

Heck, how many wars does the recent Peace Prize winner have to start before they take the prize back?

/yes, that was snark.

131 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:26:54pm

re: #86 Gus 802

Saw that. Looks like he's pimping some quasi libertarian group in another article, Sam Adam Alliance. It's a Tea Party and Beckist type groups run by John Tsarpalas. Same connections with American Liberty Alliance, Odom, and other similar groups. Astroturfers. The big money behind this is Charles G. Koch.


Nice Catch! I looked into the Sam Adams Alliance earlier today and didn't find anything juicy. Good work.

132 KingKenrod  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:26:55pm

I'm a little skeptical this report means much. I took a look at it and it looks like nothing more than a summary of current actions and requests by lawmakers. Most of it looks like LEXIS-NEXIS results. It's interesting that Congress asked CRS to report on whether the clandestine taping violated laws, while they did not ask if the actions on the tape violated laws.

133 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:27:14pm

OT - Three Kings in honor of tonight:

Albert

BB

Freddy

134 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:28:05pm

re: #132 KingKenrod

I'm a little skeptical this report means much. I took a look at it and it looks like nothing more than a summary of current actions and requests by lawmakers. Most of it looks like LEXIS-NEXIS results. It's interesting that Congress asked CRS to report on whether the clandestine taping violated laws, while they did not ask if the actions on the tape violated laws.

heh...the whole thing is pretty oily imo

135 webevintage  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:28:18pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, I know what I'm doing on LGF at a quarter to six on Christmas Eve. I'm waiting for the boiled yams to be cool enough to handle, and my husband is taking a nap. What's you guyses excuse?

Our family is far away and it is just Hubby, The Boy and I.
We're had roads flooded all around today so we are in for the evening.
Had a fun night passing out presents to the pets (new collars, the cats are pissed, we will do ours in the morning) and eating shrimp and scallops.
Right now the men are arguing about the "best" metal band eveh and I'm waiting for my Italian Wedding Cake to finish cooking.

Sadly, I just popped on on the local FOX channels website to see if we just might get a bit of snow and found this horrible Christmas Eve story.
[Link: www.fox16.com...]

I am speechless at the violence visited upon this family today.

136 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:28:46pm

re: #133 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - Three Kings in honor of tonight:

Albert

BB

Freddy

hey Mad!...you da bomb!...good one

137 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:29:00pm

re: #123 Bagua

A healthcare bill has been passed - democrats will run with graphs showing how out of pocket costs will go down now it's been passed....... as opposed to what people would have been paying if the system had stayed how it was.

It's less than a year in and a big healthcare bill is through - next is card check or some big environmental programme, if Obama gets half agenda through by halfway through his first term he will still be on track.

Theres a couple of big if's there - but i don't think he has anywhere near expended his capital yet. When the mid-terms roll around sensible Dem candidates will have Obama - still in positive polling territory and with an economy rebounding front and centre..............


The doom and gloom is being talked up by those who have it in for his agenda and who would never have voted for him anyway. I'm not mad keen on Barack - but he's not road kill yet.

138 political lunatic  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:29:00pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

Nobody knows, but let's wait to see what happens with immigration reform next summer. I believe that will convince most moderates/independents considering voting Republican to vote the other way after the sane people get sick of people putting dogwhistles out to energize the xenophobes. In a sane Republican Party, they would run moderates instead, but we know that won't happen.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:30:12pm

re: #135 webevintage

Our family is far away and it is just Hubby, The Boy and I.
We're had roads flooded all around today so we are in for the evening.
Had a fun night passing out presents to the pets (new collars, the cats are pissed, we will do ours in the morning) and eating shrimp and scallops.
Right now the men are arguing about the "best" metal band eveh and I'm waiting for my Italian Wedding Cake to finish cooking.

Sadly, I just popped on on the local FOX channels website to see if we just might get a bit of snow and found this horrible Christmas Eve story.
[Link: www.fox16.com...]

I am speechless at the violence visited upon this family today.

Oh. What a horrible story. I'm so sorry to hear that.

140 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:30:27pm

re: #138 political lunatic

Oh yes... the next time immigration reform surfaces things will start to get really wild. I've read somewhere that it might be on the agenda after health care; I wonder if that is true.

141 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:31:12pm

re: #138 political lunatic

President Bush was a moderate on Immigration reform - and aspects of the lunatic fringe hated him for it. The democrats would have worked with him and some moderate GOP senators to create a lasting solution, but it would have split the GOP irrevocably for sure.

142 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:31:12pm

Mothers of Invention, "Uncle Bernie's Farm""

There's a bomb to blow your mommy up
A bomb for your daddy too
(ouch!)
A baby doll that burps & pees
A case of airplane glue
A hungry plastic troll
To scarf your buddy's arm
A box of ugly plastic things marked:
Uncle Bernie's Farm!

There's a little plastic Congress
There's a nation you can buy (I'll take two)
There's a doll that looks like mommy
She'll do anything but cry (I seen her)
There's a doll that looks like daddy
He's a funny little man
Push a button & ask for money
There's a dollar in his hand
(check his wallet)

We gotta send
Santa Claus back to the Rescue Mission
Christmas don't make it no more
Don't you know that: murder and destruction
Scream the toys in every store (think this'll sell in New York?)

There's a man who runs the country
There's a man who tried to think
And they're all made out of plastic;
When they melt they start to stink

There's a book with smiling children
Nearly dead with Christmas joys!
And smiling in his office
Is the creep who makes the toys...

143 KingKenrod  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:31:28pm

If the Dems were smart they would bring up an immigration bill similar to what McCain and Graham were supporting last year. That could really crack the GOP up in time for elections.

144 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:32:05pm

re: #137 wozzablog

Agreed all.

What I'm suggesting is just a loss of the super-majority in the Senate, that will be enough for lame duck status as far as major legislation.

145 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:32:17pm

re: #130 freetoken

Well, we have someone in the spin-offs arguing that Obama has a war going on against the elderly and disabled.

Heck, how many wars does the recent Peace Prize winner have to start before they take the prize back?

/yes, that was snark.

Industry lobbyist masquerading as commentary:

Dr. Gottlieb, an internist and a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, is a former senior official at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. He is partner to a firm that invests in health-care companies.

146 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:33:00pm

re: #143 KingKenrod

That's a helluva big "if".................

147 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:33:18pm

re: #140 freetoken

Oh yes... the next time immigration reform surfaces things will start to get really wild. I've read somewhere that it might be on the agenda after health care; I wonder if that is true.

Yes- there is already something being worked on:

New law introduced calling for immigration reform

The healthcare signs will get ditched for immigration signs quicker than you can say "Rio Grande".

148 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:33:25pm

re: #145 Gus 802

You're good.

149 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:33:41pm

re: #135 webevintage

That's terrible. It's like something out of a bad movie. What terrible people.

150 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:33:55pm

re: #136 albusteve

hey Mad!...you da bomb!...good one

Glad you liked it. Happy Blues Solstice Time! :)

151 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:34:16pm

re: #148 freetoken

You're good.

Thanks!

152 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:34:22pm

re: #132 KingKenrod

I'm a little skeptical this report means much. I took a look at it and it looks like nothing more than a summary of current actions and requests by lawmakers. Most of it looks like LEXIS-NEXIS results. It's interesting that Congress asked CRS to report on whether the clandestine taping violated laws, while they did not ask if the actions on the tape violated laws.

That's because the tapes do not show anyone violating any laws. What they show are people talking -- not doing anything illegal.

But taping people without their knowledge or consent is definitely illegal in several states.

153 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:34:34pm

re: #101 MandyManners

All right, if you must know - I do believe in Santa Claus.

But I'm such a lazy s.o.b. that there was no way I was going up on the roof in this weather and pry him out of the chimney. I figured he'd use his cell to summon the Elves so that they could attach a tow-chain to the sleigh and pull him out.

But he's still up there and I haven't seen any Elves.

Why are you all staring at me like that?

Do I look like the AAA or something?

154 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:34:54pm

re: #135 webevintage


Right now the men are arguing about the "best" metal band eveh and I'm waiting for my Italian Wedding Cake to finish cooking.

Isn't it Motorhead?

155 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:36:10pm

re: #144 Bagua

In which case Democrats will run adverts against republicans obstructing a still popular presidents agenda.

If the super majority goes - and we have seen it's tenuous even at present Droopy wanted medicare buy in and public option stripped out - and poof they were gone. If the super-majority goes in name - expect Reid to start using reconcilliation and calling in the presidents kudos to bang heads.

156 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:36:17pm

re: #150 Mad Al-Jaffee

Glad you liked it. Happy Blues Solstice Time! :)

the Freddie King gig was just awesome....people have no clue...I love the Three Kings vibe...tres cool amigo

157 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:37:50pm

re: #147 Sharmuta

Yes- there is already something being worked on:
The healthcare signs will get ditched for immigration signs quicker than you can say "Rio Grande".

Immigration and Cap and Trade. They will go for broke while the majority stands.

158 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:39:20pm

Government sector vs. private sector:

159 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:39:21pm

re: #155 wozzablog

In which case Democrats will run adverts against republicans obstructing a still popular presidents agenda.

If the super majority goes - and we have seen it's tenuous even at present Droopy wanted medicare buy in and public option stripped out - and poof they were gone. If the super-majority goes in name - expect Reid to start using reconcilliation and calling in the presidents kudos to bang heads.

Reid won't be around to use reconciliation. Nevada is going to pitch him out on his ear next year.

160 webevintage  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:39:45pm

re: #154 Mad Al-Jaffee

Isn't it Motorhead?

Yes.

161 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:40:11pm

re: #157 Bagua

Immigration and Cap and Trade. They will go for broke while the majority stands.

Cap and Trade will die in the Senate. Too many Senators can't afford to support it. It will never get to 60 votes.

162 Randall Gross  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:40:38pm

re: #143 KingKenrod

If the Dems were smart they would bring up an immigration bill similar to what McCain and Graham were supporting last year. That could really crack the GOP up in time for elections.

From what I'm reading it's pretty much the same.

163 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:40:51pm

re: #147 Sharmuta

Yes- there is already something being worked on:

New law introduced calling for immigration reform

The healthcare signs will get ditched for immigration signs quicker than you can say "Rio Grande".

smash mouth politics and nobody to stop them

164 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:40:57pm

It always struck me as massively ironic that the right wing, who traditionally champion privacy rights, would be just fine with violating the anti-taping laws designed to protect the privacy of US citizens.

I hope the ACORN sting video makers get the book thrown at them. What they did should be despicable to any true conservative.

165 Mark Pennington  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:41:13pm

I hope you all have a fantastic holiday! My girlfriend is fussing about my LGF addiction and literally pulling me away from the computer. I hope I don't miss anything good for a day or two.

166 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:41:16pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

Reid won't be around to use reconciliation. Nevada is going to pitch him out on his ear next year.

Reid doesn't care..He'll be on the board of some global corporation making a shit load of money...

167 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:41:17pm

re: #157 Bagua

Immigration and Cap and Trade. They will go for broke while the majority stands.

I doubt the opposition will invest in anything meaningful to bring to the debate in either case. I hope Santa brings me a case of hard liquor, because it's not going to get any prettier.

168 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:41:23pm

re: #155 wozzablog

In which case Democrats will run adverts against republicans obstructing a still popular presidents agenda.

If the super majority goes - and we have seen it's tenuous even at present Droopy wanted medicare buy in and public option stripped out - and poof they were gone. If the super-majority goes in name - expect Reid to start using reconcilliation and calling in the presidents kudos to bang heads.

Exactly, back to negotiation and bi-partisan cooperation, thus the end to getting stitch-ups jammed through like Obamacare.

169 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:41:25pm

re: #156 albusteve

re: #156 albusteve

the Freddie King gig was just awesome...people have no clue...I love the Three Kings vibe...tres cool amigo

As much as I love and respect BB and Albert (and I've met BB!) Freddie's guitar style is my favorite.

170 KingKenrod  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:42:07pm

re: #152 Charles

That's because the tapes do not show anyone violating any laws. What they show are people talking -- not doing anything illegal.

But taping people without their knowledge or consent is definitely illegal in several states.

Well, if telling people how to defraud the govt while actually being subsidized by the govt isn't a crime, it should be.

171 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:43:22pm

re: #157 Bagua

Immigration needs doing. If the GOP gets back in expect resolutions being passed seeking to get enough school busses together to deport all 13,000,000 illegals. That was the level of their discourse last time out.

Expect in an Obama/Reid plan something very much favoured by the Big Business wing of the GOP - social secuity numbers, limited amnesty and over all a continued source of cheap labour for big companies and small employers.

There will be concessions towards some fence being built across flash points and increased budgets for the border - but over all it won't be anything that hurts business.

172 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:43:33pm

re: #170 KingKenrod

You do understand the tapes were edited, and in some cases a voiceover was dubbed, right?

173 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:43:39pm

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

Agree on the Cap and Trade. Also, the Senate's rejection of it will essentially empty Obama's hands from any future meaningful international treaty on the matter.

So the Congress will head off in the no-man's land of Immigration Reform. I fear the Tea Partiers will up their ugly factor.

174 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:44:01pm

re: #164 Charles

It always struck me as massively ironic that the right wing, who traditionally champion privacy rights, would be just fine with violating the anti-taping laws designed to protect the privacy of US citizens.

I hope the ACORN sting video makers get the book thrown at them. What they did should be despicable to any true conservative.

Privacy in the private sphere is not the same as in the public and/or professional, no?

175 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:44:23pm

re: #169 Mad Al-Jaffee

re: #156 albusteve

As much as I love and respect BB and Albert (and I've met BB!) Freddie's guitar style is my favorite.

by far the keenest player...a natural that could play anything...BB had a bunch of licks he played over and over, that's cool and Albert played backwards...Freddie rules the trio

176 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:44:36pm

re: #173 freetoken

So the Congress will head off in the no-man's land of Immigration Reform. I fear the Tea Partiers will up their ugly factor.

You know it. I don't know if I'll be able to stomach it.

177 KingKenrod  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:44:41pm

re: #166 HoosierHoops

Reid doesn't care..He'll be on the board of some global corporation making a shit load of money...

I've always thought Reid would end up like Sen. Geary in the Godfather Pt II. That he would finally screw with the wrong guy.

178 recusancy  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:44:48pm

re: #164 Charles

It always struck me as massively ironic that the right wing, who traditionally champion privacy rights, would be just fine with violating the anti-taping laws designed to protect the privacy of US citizens.

I hope the ACORN sting video makers get the book thrown at them. What they did should be despicable to any true conservative.

I think they pretty much gave that away when they championed the wiretapping in the patriot act.

Also Roe v Wade was decided on the basis of privacy issues.

179 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:45:09pm

No surprise here: Feds: Va. standoff suspect was angry at government


,,,,,he had been in the Marines for 20 years and was proud of his military experience. On Thursday, military officials could not immediately locate any record that Taylor served.

In the last few years, the gunman told Oliver and the others, his life had headed south. He said his son had been killed in Afghanistan; the AP could not immediately find any record corroborating that.

The gunman said he had no money, and his 2007 red Dodge diesel pickup truck was about to be repossessed. Mostly, he railed against the government — high taxes, gun control, and President Barack Obama.

"He was really down on the government," Oliver said. "About the government taking over the right to bear arms ... he was angry at the government overtaxing us."

180 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:45:18pm

re: #170 KingKenrod

Well, if telling people how to defraud the govt while actually being subsidized by the govt isn't a crime, it should be.

nothing there, move along

181 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:46:27pm

re: #164 Charles

I doubt there will be any charges, Even if there are it will probably be a wrist slap. It's politically charged and I suspect the powers that be would rather just let it go.

182 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:46:55pm

re: #173 freetoken

Agree on the Cap and Trade. Also, the Senate's rejection of it will essentially empty Obama's hands from any future meaningful international treaty on the matter.

So the Congress will head off in the no-man's land of Immigration Reform. I fear the Tea Partiers will up their ugly factor.

Big time. We ain't seen nothing yet regarding racist chatter.

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:47:03pm

Conservatives may champion privacy rights, but the farther spread of the socons have too many issues they want to keep legal control over to be particularly comfortable with privacy as a social value.

184 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:47:04pm

re: #167 Sharmuta

I doubt the opposition will invest in anything meaningful to bring to the debate in either case. I hope Santa brings me a case of hard liquor, because it's not going to get any prettier.

Nope, I expect things will be getting much uglier in the months to come when the economy takes another dive.

I hope Santa brings you at least a case,


Good Liquor Gonna Carry Me Down
185 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:47:06pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

No surprise here: Feds: Va. standoff suspect was angry at government

And now we have to subsidize his stay in the slammer.

186 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:47:31pm

re: #170 KingKenrod

Well, if telling people how to defraud the govt while actually being subsidized by the govt isn't a crime, it should be.

You'd be criminalizing all tax lawyers. *rimshot*

187 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:48:32pm

re: #168 Bagua

oh.come.on.

The GOP never wanted ANYTHING, not one sausage, not a ha'penny to do with any reform to the heakthcare system. If the Democrats had stripped the bill of all 25,000,000 pages of Marxist propaganda and replaced it with two words, those words being "tort reform" the GOP in Congress would STILL not have wanted anything to do with it. At all. FUll stop.

They had one intent - kill all reform at any cost.

Oh, and by the way - 70% of Americans supported the public option at it's peak - i wonder what on earth those dastardly democrats thought they could possibly be doing seeking to implement apolicy faboured by a majority of the country.

the gosh darned cheek of them all. i mean, serioously.

188 KingKenrod  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:49:27pm

re: #172 Obdicut

You do understand the tapes were edited, and in some cases a voiceover was dubbed, right?

Yes, I've heard that. But it's my opinion that doctoring tapes to make individuals appear guilty of doing something when they are not would basically be racketeering, and I don't think these two are that stupid, or that Breitbart would get involved with something that stupid.

I could be wrong.

189 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:49:34pm

re: #174 ryannon

Privacy in the private sphere is not the same as in the public and/or professional, no?

No. You do not have the right to go into anyone's office and tape them without their consent. This has been established for a long time. And that's why the Congressional Research Service says the sting videographers probably broke state laws.

Not a single reputable news service would do something like the ACORN sting videos, because they've already been through this and been burned. That's why the laws exist.

The right wing blogosphere is now repeating the mistakes of the news media. Irony.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:50:20pm

re: #180 albusteve

nothing there, move along

Given that the tapes were tampered with, by the intrepid duo or their friends, how could I possible know what there is to see there?

191 recusancy  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:50:38pm

re: #187 wozzablog

oh.come.on.

The GOP never wanted ANYTHING, not one sausage, not a ha'penny to do with any reform to the heakthcare system. If the Democrats had stripped the bill of all 25,000,000 pages of Marxist propaganda and replaced it with two words, those words being "tort reform" the GOP in Congress would STILL not have wanted anything to do with it. At all. FUll stop.

They had one intent - kill all reform at any cost.

Yup. They spent the last 2 years saying Obama was a socialist. If they voted yes on something he championed then they would be looking like socialists to their followers.

192 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:50:40pm

re: #187 wozzablog

Exactly, and they were overruled on a perfectly partisan vote. Once that majority is gone it will be impossible to force through this sort of bill.

193 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:51:23pm

re: #188 KingKenrod

You have a higher opinion of Breitbart than I do. A much, much higher opinion of him.

194 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:51:24pm

re: #175 albusteve

Here's one more King to add:

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:51:29pm

re: #188 KingKenrod

Yes, I've heard that. But it's my opinion that doctoring tapes to make individuals appear guilty of doing something when they are not would basically be racketeering, and I don't think these two are that stupid, or that Breitbart would get involved with something that stupid.

I could be wrong.

I think that they, and Breitbart, are both stupid and self-righteous enough to do exactly that.

196 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:51:53pm

re: #171 wozzablog

Immigration needs doing. If the GOP gets back in expect resolutions being passed seeking to get enough school busses together to deport all 13,000,000 illegals. That was the level of their discourse last time out.

Expect in an Obama/Reid plan something very much favoured by the Big Business wing of the GOP - social secuity numbers, limited amnesty and over all a continued source of cheap labour for big companies and small employers.

There will be concessions towards some fence being built across flash points and increased budgets for the border - but over all it won't be anything that hurts business.

Could you imagine rounding up 13,000,000 people in the first place. The logistics would be enormous. The security forces would also be massive. This would require America looking very much like a de facto police state for the duration while the rest of the world looks on. Then you'd have to take each one of those 13,000,000 to their respective countries because contrary to popular belief they're not all from Mexico. That's about 1 and 1/2 times the population of New York City.

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:52:52pm

re: #196 Gus 802

Then you'd have to take each one of those 13,000,000 to their respective countries because contrary to popular belief they're not all from Mexico.

"Moroni deported to Sweden. Claims he's not from there."

198 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:53:17pm

re: #192 Bagua

this sort of bill.

uh-huh. you don't mean popular policys supported by a popular president?.

(runs around screaming "oh the humanity".)

199 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:53:49pm

re: #196 Gus 802

Could you imagine rounding up 13,000,000 people in the first place. The logistics would be enormous. The security forces would also be massive. This would require America looking very much like a de facto police state for the duration while the rest of the world looks on. Then you'd have to take each one of those 13,000,000 to their respective countries because contrary to popular belief they're not all from Mexico. That's about 1 and 1/2 times the population of New York City.

It wouldn't work that way Gus. A great many would leave as soon as enforcement became real.

200 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:54:20pm

bye bye America
drown in your own trivia and power jones...the feds are junkies and we are the dope...meanwhile I'm gonna stir my soup and make another drink...ho hum..good thing I like myself and my life...I'm nearly bulletproof and working out the rest...while the wicked right takes on the drooling left, I'm gonna kick back and watch the show

201 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:54:57pm

re: #196 Gus 802

"Enforce the existing law" is code for round 'em all up.

Lots of members of the GOP in the house have nothing more than "send them home".

Those same members would soon see the backing of any large corporations dissapear.

202 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:55:28pm

re: #199 Bagua

It wouldn't work that way Gus. A great many would leave as soon as enforcement became real.

One would hope. There is rhetoric flying around to "round 'em all up and ship them home" from time to time.

203 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:56:01pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

Given that the tapes were tampered with, by the intrepid duo or their friends, how could I possible know what there is to see there?

I don't care too much anymore...I just participate for the fun of it....I really don't count here at this astute blog...ignore me and carry on

204 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:56:57pm

re: #203 albusteve

I don't care too much anymore...I just participate for the fun of it...I really don't count here at this astute blog...ignore me and carry on

WOn't work Steve... I'll never ignore you.

205 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:58:42pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

"Moroni deported to Sweden. Claims he's not from there."

If they ever deport me I hope it's to the Netherlands..That country rocks...

206 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:58:45pm

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

WOn't work Steve... I'll never ignore you.

Yeah, what Walter said!

207 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:58:55pm

re: #201 wozzablog

"Enforce the existing law" is code for round 'em all up.

Lots of members of the GOP in the house have nothing more than "send them home".

Those same members would soon see the backing of any large corporations dissapear.

Yep. Truth of the matter is that they're here for economic reasons and in large part agri-business but that's changed over into construction. Even if they are technically illegal getting rid of 13,000,000 people, citizens or not, will have a negative economic impact on the USA. If they "disappear" they will also take their spending as well as labor with them. Something would have to take up the slack.

208 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:59:03pm

re: #203 albusteve

I don't care too much anymore...I just participate for the fun of it...I really don't count here at this astute blog...ignore me and carry on

None of us count, Bish.

209 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:59:17pm

re: #205 HoosierHoops

SINGAPORE?
Hi Hoopster!

210 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:59:24pm

re: #202 Gus 802

One would hope. There is rhetoric flying around to "round 'em all up and ship them home" from time to time.

Nah, America is a compassionate nation, any enforcement will respect human rights. Most illegals will leave voluntarily should enforcement escalate.

211 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 6:59:32pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

None of us count, Bish.

Don't you count?

212 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:00:12pm

re: #207 Gus 802

Not to mention their contributions to programs like Social Security, that they will never collect from!

213 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:00:14pm

Meanwhile, over on Malkin's own namesake blog, here is a comment in the current thread:


#102
On December 24th, 2009 at 5:05 pm, Ignatius Reilly said:

(I sure hope Obama doesn’t slip on an ornament shard after happy smashes them and fall on the debris in just the wrong way so that so that he severs his freakin’ carotid artery. Those glass shards can be mightly slippery on a parquet floor. )

Or how about this one:

#107
On December 24th, 2009 at 5:20 pm, happyscrapper said:

Well, Obama is in Hawaii and has stated that he has “no plans to attend Christmas services.” Why would he?? Christmas is a Christian celebration, not a mooslum one.

I suppose all of those malkin-ites are quite proud of their "Christianity".

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:00:28pm

re: #205 HoosierHoops

If they ever deport me I hope it's to the Netherlands..That country rocks...

My father has, for years, had a cunning plan to be picked up faking an Irish accent, and without his ID, seeing if he can get a free trip/deportation to the auld sod.

215 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:00:45pm

re: #211 Walter L. Newton

Don't you count?

Well- I have the ability to count and have since I was 2.

216 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:01:12pm

re: #212 Floral Giraffe

Not to mention their contributions to programs like Social Security, that they will never collect from!

You mean through payroll taxes? True, never thought about that.

217 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:01:27pm

re: #194 Mad Al-Jaffee

Here's one more King to add:

[Video]

oh man...have not thought about him in years, never saw him til now...thanks Santa

218 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:01:54pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

Just reminding me of the only ilegal immigrant deported from Springfield being Willy back to Aberdeen ;-)

219 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:02:23pm

re: #213 freetoken

Wow. That's really ugly.

220 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:02:55pm

re: #210 Bagua

Nah, America is a compassionate nation, any enforcement will respect human rights. Most illegals will leave voluntarily should enforcement escalate.

Enforcement in what sense? I don't think we can really shut off the market for illegal labor, although God knows I'd like to see us try.

221 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:03:33pm

re: #209 Floral Giraffe

SINGAPORE?
Hi Hoopster!

Singapore in spring! So far my favorite Country is the Netherlands...
You could deport me there anytime...And send me with a big boat...*wink*
Merry Christmas Floral!

222 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:03:44pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

None of us count, Bish.

only with each other...that's why I'm here

223 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:03:47pm

re: #216 Gus 802

You mean through payroll taxes? True, never thought about that.

Especially when they are working under "an assumed" Social Security number! SOmeone else is getting the benefits of their contributions!

224 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:04:26pm

re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist

Enforcement in what sense? I don't think we can really shut off the market for illegal labor, although God knows I'd like to see us try.

Anything like that would have to be phased and done very deliberately and slowly. If it took decades to reach this point it should take decades to reverse it.

225 jaunte  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:04:43pm

re: #213 freetoken

The haters really need to take a holiday. I guess it's impossible for them.

226 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:04:44pm

re: #221 HoosierHoops

And a Merry Christmas to you & your Family & Winston!

227 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:05:25pm

re: #217 albusteve

You're welcome. I think there might be a couple of other blues Kings I've forgotten. Let me check.

228 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:05:34pm

re: #202 Gus 802

One would hope. There is rhetoric flying around to "round 'em all up and ship them home" from time to time.

Especially those damn Irish.

229 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:05:40pm

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

WOn't work Steve... I'll never ignore you.

heh...I can't be left unsupervised

230 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:05:46pm

re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist

Enforcement -to work on any scale - would have to be mass round ups. Either that or familys snatched individually in the dead of night.

As soon as familys with young children got wind of what was happening they would seek shelter in churches and wait it out becoming cause'celebres - it's a guaranteed fail on terms of US Government public relations.

231 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:06:15pm

re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist

Enforcement in what sense? I don't think we can really shut off the market for illegal labor, although God knows I'd like to see us try.

Enforcement by the appropriate authorities using the infrastructure in place. Taking action against the employers would quickly dry up that market. All that's lacking is intent and the allocation of resources.

232 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:07:14pm

re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist

Enforcement in what sense? I don't think we can really shut off the market for illegal labor, although God knows I'd like to see us try.

with the stroke of the Mighty Pen, anything can happen

233 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:08:07pm

re: #225 jaunte

The haters really need to take a holiday. I guess it's impossible for them.

Hey, they're just getting in the spirit... Herod's spirit, that is.

234 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:08:11pm

re: #213 freetoken

Meanwhile, over on Malkin's own namesake blog, here is a comment in the current thread:

I suppose all of those malkin-ites are quite proud of their "Christianity".

If that's Christian, then I'm an invisible blue leprechaun.

235 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:08:17pm

re: #231 Bagua

If you cut off the money people won't be able to get home - also the fact the economy relies on these people working cheaply and silently.

Citizens won't do the jobs illegals will. There will always be a market.

236 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:08:37pm

Why is everyone always picking on blue people?

237 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:08:41pm

anyways - g'night kids.

238 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:08:48pm

re: #230 wozzablog

Enforcement -to work on any scale - would have to be mass round ups. Either that or familys snatched individually in the dead of night.

As soon as familys with young children got wind of what was happening they would seek shelter in churches and wait it out becoming cause'celebres - it's a guaranteed fail on terms of US Government public relations.

nothing ventured, nothing gained I always say...anyway I'm used to govt failure, no big deal anymore

239 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:09:02pm

re: #236 Sharmuta

because they are green.

240 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:09:18pm

Joe Bonamassa in Israel:

241 jaunte  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:09:27pm

re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist

Enforcement in what sense? I don't think we can really shut off the market for illegal labor, although God knows I'd like to see us try.

I think there are too many people up and down the economic spectrum that benefit from the illegal immigrant workforce, from giant corporations to people just getting their lawns mowed cheaply, for immigration enforcement to ever happen consistently across the country.

242 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:09:33pm

re: #239 wozzablog

because they are green.

Wouldn't that make them turquoise?

243 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:09:50pm

re: #238 albusteve

If you want the government to round up crying children at gunpoint in the middle of the night - thats your own business.

244 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:09:56pm

re: #236 Sharmuta

Why is everyone always picking on blue people?

Because they're smurfin' smurfheads!

245 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:10:07pm

re: #230 wozzablog

Enforcement -to work on any scale - would have to be mass round ups. Either that or familys snatched individually in the dead of night.

As soon as familys with young children got wind of what was happening they would seek shelter in churches and wait it out becoming cause'celebres - it's a guaranteed fail on terms of US Government public relations.

Not so. Closing sites using illegal labor could be a start. Occasional raids on work places having been ID'd as using same labor could be further used. Home raids would indeed be counter productive and I've never proposed them.

246 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:10:12pm

re: #235 wozzablog

If you cut off the money people won't be able to get home - also the fact the economy relies on these people working cheaply and silently.

Citizens won't do the jobs illegals will. There will always be a market.

So we give them a bus ticket, whatever.

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:10:40pm

re: #223 Floral Giraffe

Especially when they are working under "an assumed" Social Security number! SOmeone else is getting the benefits of their contributions!

My husband used to work with a Canadian kid who was in the States on a tourist visa. He ran out of money, and applied for a job in a downtown SF office, where the hubby also worked at the time. They asked if he was a US citizen, and he said yes. Not sure what he did about ID. They asked for his Social Security number, and, not sure what that was, he just wrote some random numbers down in the spaces provided.

Nearly a year later, he was e-mailed by HR, and asked to come by and give them his Social Security number again, because the one he had given indicated that he'd died in 1971. He said he'd be right over, then quit, took all the money he'd saved up, and went to New Orleans for Mardi Gras. He said he was going home after that, but he may still be wandering around the U.S. giving fake Social Security numbers for all I know. Now that he's gotten the knack.

Just in case you were feeling overly secure about our borders. I mean, this kid was harmless, he just wanted beer and a good indy rock band. But still...

248 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:10:44pm

re: #236 Sharmuta

Why is everyone always picking on blue people?

I'm sure a lot of people sitting through 3 1/2 hours of Avatar are saying the same thing...

249 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:10:56pm

re: #240 Charles

Joe Bonamassa in Israel:


[Video]

ticklin my Bose...listening now

250 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:11:27pm

re: #230 wozzablog

re: #231 Bagua

I can NOT imagine anything less "American" than mass round ups of people here in this country. Seriously? How do you even TRY to deport 13,000,000 people? (If you accept that number?) Folks who have lived here for more than a generation? Worked hard, saved their money, moved up the ladder, as best they could. Sent their kids to school, in another language, to grow up to have a better life. Plus, the US ignored/choose to not enforce it's own laws, for a LONG time. Personally, I don't see any kind of solution, that does not include a pathway to citizenship, for most who are already here. Mind you, it's another bureaucratic nightmare!

251 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:11:33pm

re: #213 freetoken

Meanwhile, over on Malkin's own namesake blog, here is a comment in the current thread:

I suppose all of those malkin-ites are quite proud of their "Christianity".

If they're all so "Christian" why are they spending their time on
Christmas Eve posting to teh interwebs? Don't they have fricken families?

When it's my holidays, I don't even go in the same room with the computer.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:11:35pm

re: #224 Gus 802

Anything like that would have to be phased and done very deliberately and slowly. If it took decades to reach this point it should take decades to reverse it.

We need to have a plan and a philosophy. The problem with immigration reform is that it tends to be done in spurts and fits, for political gain, or just in a fit of pique or panic.

253 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:11:51pm

re: #241 jaunte

I think there are too many people up and down the economic spectrum that benefit from the illegal immigrant workforce, from giant corporations to people just getting their lawns mowed cheaply, for immigration enforcement to ever happen consistently across the country.

Exactly. The illegal population is not an isolated element of American society.

254 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:12:04pm

re: #245 Dark_Falcon

A lot of business models - including models that are integral to the legitimate economy rely on endless sources of cheap expolitable labor.

Remove those ecomomys and citizens won't fill those jobs.

255 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:12:05pm

re: #243 wozzablog

If you want the government to round up crying children at gunpoint in the middle of the night - thats your own business.

yeah...undercover wearing freaky GWB masks...how did you guess?

256 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:12:08pm

re: #236 Sharmuta

Why is everyone always picking on blue people?

It has to do with their ancestors being French.

257 andres  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:13:07pm

re: #32 Alouette

Here's the recipe for the local variant, Coquito.

How I love coquito. =)

258 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:13:07pm

re: #250 Floral Giraffe

Perfectly reasonable and rational response to the topic - RINO.


/

259 palomino  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:13:12pm

Not that this will matter to propagandist hack Andrew Breitbart. ACORN is another of Breitbart's bogeymen, used to represent nearly all his fantasies of liberalism's supposedly inherent evil.

Breitbart deserves the Robert Stacy McCain treatment; he may not be as racist, but he's just as crazy and twice as hysterical.

260 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:13:40pm

re: #243 wozzablog

If you want the government to round up crying children at gunpoint in the middle of the night - thats your own business.

Why did I just suddenly get this freaky image of Elian Gonzales in my mind?

261 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:14:10pm

Sharmuta, whatever became of Stinky Bastard?

And I don't mean that guy who called you from jail.

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:14:46pm

re: #246 Bagua

So we give them a bus ticket, whatever.

I'm trying to think this through. The speech goes like this: "Bob, we've shut down your employer for employing you, an illegal alien. He won't hire you back when he reopens. But you are not stranded here in Illinois/Texas/Pennsylvania. Here's a bus ticket home. You will go STRAIGHT HOME, right?"

Bob: "Sure thing, dude."

263 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:15:16pm

re: #250 Floral Giraffe

re: #231 Bagua

I can NOT imagine anything less "American" than mass round ups of people here in this country. Seriously? How do you even TRY to deport 13,000,000 people? (If you accept that number?) Folks who have lived here for more than a generation? Worked hard, saved their money, moved up the ladder, as best they could. Sent their kids to school, in another language, to grow up to have a better life. Plus, the US ignored/choose to not enforce it's own laws, for a LONG time. Personally, I don't see any kind of solution, that does not include a pathway to citizenship, for most who are already here. Mind you, it's another bureaucratic nightmare!

Just looked at one hysterical site. They're counting 23,000,000.

So make that 3 times the population of NY, NY.

Yep, should be a piece of cake.

264 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:16:18pm

re: #255 albusteve

Um. GWB wasn't one of the Republicans who supported that line - not even the democrats argued that Bush wasn't a pathway realist.

This ugliness could have been prevented if the GOP in Congress had allowed GWB to do something reasonable on immigration..... but nope - GWB wasn't one of the people who supported that line of schoolbusses nose to tail from san antonio to anchorage.

For hyperbole to work it has to have the ring of truth.

265 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:16:36pm

re: #250 Floral Giraffe

re: #231 Bagua

There would be no "mass round ups" nor would I advocate that. And most have not been here for generations, they are recent.

Just deporting those incarcerated for crimes would be a good start.

266 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:17:31pm

Bonamassa song...I love his finger picking, he sticks his pick in his knuckle for when he wants to go for the power....John Mayer does the same thing...ready to shred....heh, I dig Joe

267 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:17:38pm

re: #263 Gus 802

I'm in So. Cal. You can NOT shock me with any estimate of the "illegal immigrants". There are cities here, that I would guess at 60% illegals. Some, maybe more. And THEN you can add the "overstayed their VISA folks" to the number.

268 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:17:59pm

re: #265 Bagua

We should start with the Smurfs. Send them all back to France and give their jobs to the Disney Studios.

269 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:18:20pm

re: #265 Bagua

But, if you don't enforce the border, those deported, just come back.

270 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:18:32pm

re: #264 wozzablog

Um. GWB wasn't one of the Republicans who supported that line - not even the democrats argued that Bush wasn't a pathway realist.

This ugliness could have been prevented if the GOP in Congress had allowed GWB to do something reasonable on immigration... but nope - GWB wasn't one of the people who supported that line of schoolbusses nose to tail from san antonio to anchorage.

For hyperbole to work it has to have the ring of truth.

23,000,000 according to some site I just saw. So let's call that the Tea Party figure.

That would be 638,000 buses. 36 pax. per bus.

271 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:19:17pm

re: #254 wozzablog

A lot of business models - including models that are integral to the legitimate economy rely on endless sources of cheap expolitable labor.

Remove those ecomomys and citizens won't fill those jobs.

Then automate those positions, at least some of them. Robots could replace fruit pickers and cleaning crews in many cases.

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:19:27pm

re: #269 Floral Giraffe

But, if you don't enforce the border, those deported, just come back.

And back. And back. And no, electrifying the Rio Grande will not help.

People will do goddamn near anything to get to safety and feed their kids. That's a fact.

273 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:19:45pm

re: #264 wozzablog

Um. GWB wasn't one of the Republicans who supported that line - not even the democrats argued that Bush wasn't a pathway realist.

This ugliness could have been prevented if the GOP in Congress had allowed GWB to do something reasonable on immigration... but nope - GWB wasn't one of the people who supported that line of schoolbusses nose to tail from san antonio to anchorage.

For hyperbole to work it has to have the ring of truth.

really, I'm outside the discussion except for an occasional over the top wise crack

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:19:47pm

re: #270 Gus 802

23,000,000 according to some site I just saw. So let's call that the Tea Party figure.

That would be 638,000 buses. 36 pax. per bus.

That's a lot of buses.

275 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:19:53pm

re: #257 andres

Here's the recipe for the local variant, Coquito.

How I love coquito. =)

I'd double the Rum... Anytime serving spiked snacks to guests..Warn them..then knock their socks off...After a couple of real rum ball and your cousin isn't doing the dirty dancing thing in the living room with your crazy aunt....Well..Then you need more rum...

276 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:20:14pm

re: #269 Floral Giraffe

But, if you don't enforce the border, those deported, just come back.

Of course. However with enforcement of the laws very few would attempt to return. With the current system, we are overrun and it looks impossible to change.

277 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:20:29pm

re: #269 Floral Giraffe

But, if you don't enforce the border, those deported, just come back.

Then enforce the border. Reinforce it heavily.

278 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:20:31pm

re: #270 Gus 802

Then what?
You stop the bus in TJ & empty it?
Take them to their remote villages?
Hand them over to the Federales & let Mexico take care of their own?

What about the Indians, Iranians, Swiss, etc......

279 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:20:38pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

That's a lot of buses.

Sure is.

We can put Mayor Nagin in charge of the operation. /

280 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:20:42pm

re: #270 Gus 802

23,000,000 according to some site I just saw. So let's call that the Tea Party figure.

That would be 638,000 buses. 36 pax. per bus.

Make them walk.

Like we did with the Seminoles. And they sure as hell never came back to Florida either.

281 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:20:54pm

re: #271 Dark_Falcon

Then automate those positions, at least some of them. Robots could replace fruit pickers and cleaning crews in many cases.

Why not a legitimate worker's program?

282 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:21:24pm

re: #278 Floral Giraffe

Then what?
You stop the bus in TJ & empty it?
Take them to their remote villages?
Hand them over to the Federales & let Mexico take care of their own?

What about the Indians, Iranians, Swiss, etc...

Exactly. Was looking up country of origin figures.

283 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:21:32pm

re: #268 ryannon

We should start with the Smurfs. Send them all back to France and give their jobs to the Disney Studios.

:(

284 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:22:00pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

And back. And back. And no, electrifying the Rio Grande will not help.

People will do goddamn near anything to get to safety and feed their kids. That's a fact.

others will do goddamn near anything to off their drugs, get their revenge, launder their cash, and stock up on weapons and ammo

285 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:22:37pm

re: #280 ryannon

Make them walk.

Like we did with the Seminoles. And they sure as hell never came back to Florida either.

That would be difficult with the Chinese immigrants. Cantonese are capable of a lot of crazy shit less dedicated and disciplined people wouldn't even try, but walking on water is tough.

286 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:22:38pm

Well, I was hoping my HotAir account (which I have but never used to post) would have worked at MM's namesake site... but it doesn't. I was hoping to go "SpaceJesus" on them... but for now, they will have to continue to stumble in the dark.

287 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:22:40pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

And back. And back. And no, electrifying the Rio Grande will not help.

People will do goddamn near anything to get to safety and feed their kids. That's a fact.

Most illegals are here for economic improvement. They can feed their kids in Mexico as well. They will not return to the US if it means prison.

Those truly fleeing for safety should ask for asylum, the US has always been generous.

288 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:22:49pm

re: #278 Floral Giraffe

Then what?
You stop the bus in TJ & empty it?
Take them to their remote villages?
Hand them over to the Federales & let Mexico take care of their own?

What about the Indians, Iranians, Swiss, etc...

Who could we get to do our advanced research if they left?

289 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:22:50pm

re: #271 Dark_Falcon

Mass automisation is expsensive and the firms operating on the lowest rung operate on razor thin margins in order to get contracts up the line - without massive subsidy there is no way that will happen.

290 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:23:15pm

re: #284 albusteve

others will do goddamn near anything to off their drugs, get their revenge, launder their cash, and stock up on weapons and ammo

And sadly, on the border, the latter prey on the former.

291 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:23:27pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

That's a lot of buses.

I know for a fact we could put 300 people per bus...those numbers are way conservative

292 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:23:49pm

re: #268 ryannon

We should start with the Smurfs. Send them all back to France and give their jobs to the Disney Studios.

Smurfs are Belgian.

293 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:24:25pm

re: #292 Alouette

Smurfs are Belgian.

And we don't want to go back to Belgium either.

294 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:24:45pm

Immigration story. Mom from another country. Came to US in 1959 on some sort of visa, married Dad. Worked all her life. Got those SS statements in the mail. Goes to collect Social Security...please show us your birth certificate. She has a SS #, had it since she started working in 1960, but find out she's an undocumented immigrant. She never did the necessary paperwork. This is in So Cal. I kind of freak out. Do everything (pay $$$$) to get her "legal". Luckily this is 3 years ago, before the big anti-immigration hullabaloo. She qualified by being here continuously since 1972. Get's her SS now, green card carrying senior.

One (of the many) things I got out of this event, is there are people have paid into SS and cannot collect it.

295 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:25:00pm

re: #293 Sharmuta

And we don't want to go back to Belgium either.

really, their beer sucks

296 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:25:22pm

re: #291 albusteve

I know for a fact we could put 300 people per bus...those numbers are way conservative

Boxcars would be much more efficient and much less expensive.

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:25:46pm

re: #287 Bagua

Most illegals are here for economic improvement. They can feed their kids in Mexico as well. They will not return to the US if it means prison.

Those truly fleeing for safety should ask for asylum, the US has always been generous.

The US does not grant asylum to people whose hometown is overrun with gunslinging narcotraficantes. If we did, we'd have a lot more refugees than we do.

As for 'they can feed their kids in Mexico as well'...no. Not as well.

I don't say we don't need to enforce and deter illegal immigration better, but I've worked with too many people who came to the US illegally to judge anyone coming here.

298 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:25:57pm

re: #295 albusteve

really, their beer sucks

They have good beer, and chocolate and diamonds, but we still love America best.

299 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:26:04pm

re: #296 ryannon

As long as everyone is given a bindle.

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:26:25pm

re: #293 Sharmuta

And we don't want to go back to Belgium either.

I hear they have waffles.

301 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:26:34pm

re: #296 ryannon

Boxcars would be much more efficient and much less expensive.

Oh, my. That was an interesting retort.

302 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:26:38pm

re: #278 Floral Giraffe

Then what?
You stop the bus in TJ & empty it?
Take them to their remote villages?
Hand them over to the Federales & let Mexico take care of their own?

What about the Indians, Iranians, Swiss, etc...

Here we go. From Wiki. Top 10 for 2010.

Mexico - 9,600,000
China - 1,900,000
Philippines - 1,700,000
India - 1,610,000
Vietnam - 1,200,000
Cuba - 1,100,000
El Salvador - 1,100,000
Dominican Republic - 941,000
Canada - 920,000
Korea - 880,000

303 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:26:40pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

to quote Python -


"miserable fat belgian bastards"
304 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:27:10pm

re: #296 ryannon

Boxcars would be much more efficient and much less expensive.

Chica, sark tag that sort of thing, 'kay?

305 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:27:25pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

I hear they have waffles.

And they let President Obama finish his.

//

306 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:27:28pm

re: #302 Gus 802

It's a long bus trip to China.

307 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:27:39pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Chica, sark tag that sort of thing, 'kay?

Seriously.

308 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:28:01pm

re: #299 wozzablog

As long as everyone is given a bindle.

"Nation Instinctively Forms Breadline"

Favorite Onion headline from the last year.

309 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:28:03pm

re: #294 Stanley Sea

Millions of them.

310 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:28:33pm

re: #306 Obdicut

It's a long bus trip to China.

Yep, it sure is. And India, and Vietnam, Korea, Philippines, etc.

311 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:28:42pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

The US does not grant asylum to people whose hometown is overrun with gunslinging narcotraficantes. If we did, we'd have a lot more refugees than we do.

As for 'they can feed their kids in Mexico as well'...no. Not as well.

I don't say we don't need to enforce and deter illegal immigration better, but I've worked with too many people who came to the US illegally to judge anyone coming here.

I the US responsible for the situation in other countries? Are they entitled to come to the US illegally because they are poor?

312 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:28:43pm

re: #306 Obdicut

It's a long bus trip to China.

Do VW buses float, or only the bugs?

313 jaunte  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:28:47pm

re: #294 Stanley Sea

My great-grandfather was an illegal; hopped off a Brazilian whaling ship in San Francisco, and went east.

314 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:29:05pm

The area I live in is a magnet for illegal aliens, mostly from Mexico and Central America. I have serious misgivings about having a flood of by-definition illegal newcomers taking root here. If we are a nation of government by law, and the newcomers are the products and progenitors of a government by la mordida, that's bad. Tens of millions of people who have an entrenched cultural disregard for the rule of law cannot help but spell trouble in the aggregate over time, however they conduct themselves individually.

315 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:29:51pm

re: #311 Bagua

I the US responsible for the situation in other countries? Are they entitled to come to the US illegally because they are poor?

To the Left, the U. S. is the scourge of the world.

316 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:29:52pm

Ok - G'night all.

Feliz Navidad.

317 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:29:55pm
318 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:30:03pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

And then, you have the issue of "break up the family, or deport them all, or let them all stay". What if Mom & Dad are illegal, but the kids are legal?
Say the kids are minors. What then?

It's just not as easy as saying "deport them". Is my point.

319 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:30:27pm

re: #311 Bagua

I the US responsible for the situation in other countries? Are they entitled to come to the US illegally because they are poor?

This is not about 'reponsible', or 'entitled'. This is just about 'I won't judge, because if I'd been facing the odds in Guadalajara I'd be here too'.

320 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:31:15pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

If the bus is named Bernie, I bet it will.

321 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:31:16pm

re: #318 Floral Giraffe

And then, you have the issue of "break up the family, or deport them all, or let them all stay". What if Mom & Dad are illegal, but the kids are legal?
Say the kids are minors. What then?

It's just not as easy as saying "deport them". Is my point.

Correct. The total figure is close to 40,500,000. That's the number that Vdare, Grassfire, and Miss Internment Camp want to deport.

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:31:49pm

re: #314 The Sanity Inspector

The area I live in is a magnet for illegal aliens, mostly from Mexico and Central America. I have serious misgivings about having a flood of by-definition illegal newcomers taking root here. If we are a nation of government by law, and the newcomers are the products and progenitors of a government by la mordida, that's bad. Tens of millions of people who have an entrenched cultural disregard for the rule of law cannot help but spell trouble in the aggregate over time, however they conduct themselves individually.

I disagree with your characterization of the culture.

323 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:31:55pm

re: #315 The Sanity Inspector

Because - to the Right - the US is the worlds policeman whether the world likes it or not. Spreading free market ideals and no-bid contracts worldwide baby..................

324 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:31:58pm

re: #294 Stanley Sea

Immigration story. Mom from another country. Came to US in 1959 on some sort of visa, married Dad. Worked all her life. Got those SS statements in the mail. Goes to collect Social Security...please show us your birth certificate. She has a SS #, had it since she started working in 1960, but find out she's an undocumented immigrant. She never did the necessary paperwork. This is in So Cal. I kind of freak out. Do everything (pay $$$) to get her "legal". Luckily this is 3 years ago, before the big anti-immigration hullabaloo. She qualified by being here continuously since 1972. Get's her SS now, green card carrying senior.

One (of the many) things I got out of this event, is there are people have paid into SS and cannot collect it.

like me...my right leg is nearly dead, sliced open with my muscles falling out, infected half the time after four surgeries in 12 months...I'm hooked on pain killers, trying to avoid having the goddamned thing chopped off....and the SS Disability lady want's me to sell my work truck and and work in a tire shop up the road...I can't even fucking walk more than 100 ft...I'm crippled, in constant pain with a stack of med records 2 inches thick...they denied me my own money...MY MONEY!...I hate the feds, you wanna know why?

325 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:32:13pm

re: #319 SanFranciscoZionist

This is not about 'reponsible', or 'entitled'. This is just about 'I won't judge, because if I'd been facing the odds in Guadalajara I'd be here too'.

It's not a question of judging, it's the rule of law. Every country has the right to control its borders and decide who gets to enter.

326 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:32:36pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

They have good beer, and chocolate and diamonds, but we still love America best.

I was joking about the chocolate and diamonds

327 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:32:58pm

re: #316 wozzablog

Ok - G'night all.

Feliz Navidad.

I don't know how to do accent marks on my keyboard, so I won't wish you a happy New Year in Spanish. It would become obscene.

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:33:25pm

re: #318 Floral Giraffe

And then, you have the issue of "break up the family, or deport them all, or let them all stay". What if Mom & Dad are illegal, but the kids are legal?
Say the kids are minors. What then?

It's just not as easy as saying "deport them". Is my point.

It's just not easy. Period.

329 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:33:30pm

re: #296 ryannon

Boxcars would be much more efficient and much less expensive.

double deckers!...great idea!

330 palomino  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:33:58pm

re: #321 Gus 802

Correct. The total figure is close to 40,500,000. That's the number that Vdare, Grassfire, and Miss Internment Camp want to deport.

Deport 40.5 million immigrants? There's a "strategy" for a return to dominance for the GOP.

331 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:34:02pm

We had this conversation back in the Reagan years, briefly. Nothing of substance was done, and so here we are.

332 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:34:11pm

re: #314 The Sanity Inspector

The area I live in is a magnet for illegal aliens, mostly from Mexico and Central America. I have serious misgivings about having a flood of by-definition illegal newcomers taking root here. If we are a nation of government by law, and the newcomers are the products and progenitors of a government by la mordida, that's bad. Tens of millions of people who have an entrenched cultural disregard for the rule of law cannot help but spell trouble in the aggregate over time, however they conduct themselves individually.

Agreed. We can't have mass deportations, nor should we want them. However, any process we devise has to include the reduction in Latin American's political ties to their home countries and a increase in their ties to this one. I'm willing to welcome new Americans, but they must be willing to think of themselves first and foremost as Americans.

333 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:34:38pm

re: #327 SanFranciscoZionist

feliz cumpleaños

334 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:34:44pm

re: #314 The Sanity Inspector

The penalty for most visa violtions is a misdemeanor. Calling them 'illegal aliens' makes about as much sense as calling someone an 'illegal driver' because they speed. Using that illegality as a grounds to say that they have entrenched cultural disregard for the law is also too extreme. The law they are breaking in many cases is overstaying a visa, or working while having a student visa. They're not kicking puppies across the border.

335 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:34:50pm

re: #325 Bagua

It's not a question of judging, it's the rule of law. Every country has the right to control its borders and decide who gets to enter.

But, we haven't controlled our borders for over 20 years. These people have established lives here. Some of this mess, we must take responsibility for.

336 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:34:53pm

re: #330 palomino

Deport 40.5 million immigrants? There's a "strategy" for a return to dominance for the GOP.

Right. I used to rub my eyes when I read people saying those things.

337 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:35:41pm

re: #324 albusteve

Dude, there is a community here. A lot of voices that could advocate for you. Seriously. Sometimes it does take a village, and even though I don't know the nitty-gritty, I'd go to bat for you.

338 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:36:11pm

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

It's just not easy. Period.

Absolutely not. But I don't believe that many are children. Millions of males have come streaming over the borders seeking work or crime. We could start with those and deal with legitimate humanitarian concerns though our legal immigration service.

339 jaunte  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:36:18pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. We can't have mass deportations, nor should we want them. However, any process we devise has to include the reduction in Latin American's political ties to their home countries and a increase in their ties to this one. I'm willing to welcome new Americans, but they must be willing to think of themselves first and foremost as Americans.

Encouraging better civics and English education instead of putting so many resources into a two-track English and Spanish system would help with that.

340 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:36:41pm

re: #334 Obdicut

Or entering the country with no papers at all.
I would suspect that the "no papers" is the majority of the illegals, at least in California.

341 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:36:59pm

re: #339 jaunte

Encouraging better civics and English education instead of putting so many resources into a two-track English and Spanish system would help with that.

Quite Concur.

342 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:37:12pm

re: #325 Bagua

It's not a question of judging, it's the rule of law. Every country has the right to control its borders and decide who gets to enter.


The rule of law is only as significant as the will and ability to enforce the law. The "rule of law" brought us prohibition, and it didn't stop people from drinking. Deporting tens of millions of people is effectively impossible. You talk about infrastructure, what you speak of is fantasy. It's as fantastical as the notion of colonizing Mars. Infrastructure does not exist to do this in anything resembling a timely manner. And even if it were possible, it would destroy our economy. Every single agricultural interest in America would lobby it into oblivion. It will never happen.

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:38:12pm

re: #325 Bagua

It's not a question of judging, it's the rule of law. Every country has the right to control its borders and decide who gets to enter.

I'm not arguing with that. But I also won't make it easy for myself or anyone else by lathering up in moral indignation, or pretending that life's a breeze in Mexico or rural China. I know why people come. I'm not going to say a word against them for that.

344 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:38:48pm

re: #335 Floral Giraffe

But, we haven't controlled our borders for over 20 years. These people have established lives here. Some of this mess, we must take responsibility for.

Agreed. We would likely grant many residence on good grounds. But when was the the last amnesty? If I'm not mistaken most of these illegals are from recent years.

345 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:38:51pm

re: #342 WindUpBird

We will colonize Mars some day, but I realize you mean "right now".

346 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:39:14pm

re: #333 wozzablog

feliz cumpleaños

Uh, thanks, but my birthday isn't until July...

347 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:39:29pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not arguing with that. But I also won't make it easy for myself or anyone else by lathering up in moral indignation, or pretending that life's a breeze in Mexico or rural China. I know why people come. I'm not going to say a word against them for that.

Half the countries would take them back or repatriate them. It's a nearly impossible task to apply the law equally in many of the cases.

348 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:39:33pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Chica, sark tag that sort of thing, 'kay?

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time I deliberately left it out. It was beyond sarcasm, and rooted in a much darker territory.

To try and soften it with a "ha-ha" just being sarcastic cheapens the horror of the historical reference - as well as the idea itself.

I guess that that's what I was trying to say: how easily it becomes to think the unthinkable in certain contexts.

I nevertheless apologize for any unpleasantness I may have caused: it was inadvertent, and above all, I never intended it a clever post as much as an object-lesson.

Once again, my excuses if some of you saw it as a lesson in the abject rather than the object.

349 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:39:48pm

I'm from Napa Valley...There has been Mexicans there for generations on end..Farming..Wine growing...Because of the history we have...Napa has always opened it's arms the mexicans and they have deep roots in the Valley.
It's neat that they are great farmers, Great people and good friends.
In fact there is only one type of person not to cared about.. Hollywood people keep moving to Napa setting up shop in their 5 million dollar homes and looking down their noses at the locals..The last 20 years everybody who is anybody buys a home in Napa....That should be covered under the illegal immigration act

350 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:40:23pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

The US does not grant asylum to people whose hometown is overrun with gunslinging narcotraficantes. If we did, we'd have a lot more refugees than we do.

As for 'they can feed their kids in Mexico as well'...no. Not as well.

I don't say we don't need to enforce and deter illegal immigration better, but I've worked with too many people who came to the US illegally to judge anyone coming here.

Israel has a big problem with illegals, and they are a much smaller country than the U.S.

351 badger1970  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:40:55pm

re: #331 The Sanity Inspector

I remember that my younger sister saying back then about the alien discussion, "Why do they hate ET?"

352 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:42:22pm

re: #348 ryannon

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time I deliberately left it out. It was beyond sarcasm, and rooted in a much darker territory.

To try and soften it with a "ha-ha" just being sarcastic cheapens the horror of the historical reference - as well as the idea itself.

I guess that that's what I was trying to say: how easily it becomes to think the unthinkable in certain contexts.

I nevertheless apologize for any unpleasantness I may have caused: it was inadvertent, and above all, I never intended it a clever post as much as an object-lesson.

Once again, my excuses if some of you saw it as a lesson in the abject rather than the object.

No, no, s'okay, I just twitched mightily. Good for the nervous system.

353 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:42:45pm

re: #349 HoosierHoops

Heya! I have a friend up there, Pam Hunter. She was one of the owners of Stag's Leap for awhile, and now is part owner of Quixote, as well as a wonderful person.

I like the Latino parts of Napa more than the richy-rich center streets.

354 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:43:00pm

In case anyone doesn't know what a smowman is, here's a wikipedia definition:

A snowman is an anthropomorphic snow sculpture of a human. They are customarily built by children as part of a family project in celebration of winter. In some cases, participants in winter festivals will build large numbers of snowmen. Because a snowman is short-lived, it is a good example of popular installation art.

355 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:43:16pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not arguing with that. But I also won't make it easy for myself or anyone else by lathering up in moral indignation, or pretending that life's a breeze in Mexico or rural China. I know why people come. I'm not going to say a word against them for that.

Agreed. It is an emotive issue, and surely many could make a compelling argument for residency.

356 albusteve  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:43:18pm

re: #337 Stanley Sea

Dude, there is a community here. A lot of voices that could advocate for you. Seriously. Sometimes it does take a village, and even though I don't know the nitty-gritty, I'd go to bat for you.

the IRS flat out ripped me off in 2003 when I sold my half of a lucrative business....I went to court twice, where they actually admitted they were wrong but told me I'd have to file suit and fight it out in court AGAIN! for restitution...they threatened me with misery for as long as I lived, they threatened to audit my kids in college...I have long hard issues with the feds and the IRS, but guess what?...forget the money, I'm gonna get the last laugh...the govt, in my life, is corrupt

357 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:43:24pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not arguing with that. But I also won't make it easy for myself or anyone else by lathering up in moral indignation, or pretending that life's a breeze in Mexico or rural China. I know why people come. I'm not going to say a word against them for that.

If it were me, I'd come! And no indignant conservative would mean anything to me, when the alternative to coming to the US illegally is abject brutal poverty. This idea that nobody would break the rule of law, it;s just so naive. If you;re starving, you break whatever laws you have to. If your kids are starving, you do what you must. Borders are just an obstacle to survival and a better life, and a comparitively minor one, compared to the Sudan or the Congo.

358 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:44:01pm

re: #345 Obdicut

We will colonize Mars some day, but I realize you mean "right now".

Yeah, I mean in the next 10 or 20 years. 300 years from now, who knows. 8-)

359 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:44:35pm

re: #350 Alouette

Israel has a big problem with illegals, and they are a much smaller country than the U.S.

Well, Egypt has tried to help out by gunning down Sudanese running for the Israeli border.

//Really bleak.

Oh, BTW, the Gaza March is being told they can't go through Rafah. I bet the Egyptians let them, in the end, though. But wouldn't it be cool if?

360 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:45:27pm

re: #334 Obdicut

The penalty for most visa violtions is a misdemeanor. Calling them 'illegal aliens' makes about as much sense as calling someone an 'illegal driver' because they speed. Using that illegality as a grounds to say that they have entrenched cultural disregard for the law is also too extreme. The law they are breaking in many cases is overstaying a visa, or working while having a student visa. They're not kicking puppies across the border.

For much of the past century, up until very recent decades, the governments of Mexico and central America were no friend to their citizens. Having to pay a bribe to every government functionary you deal with must drain a lot of respect for the law out of a person, in addition to the depredations of the police states. I don't see the illegals turning into Jeffersonian small-d democrats upon breathing the magic air of America--especially when their first act is to cock a snoot at the legal means of coming here.

361 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:45:29pm

re: #353 Obdicut

Heya! I have a friend up there, Pam Hunter. She was one of the owners of Stag's Leap for awhile, and now is part owner of Quixote, as well as a wonderful person.

I like the Latino parts of Napa more than the richy-rich center streets.

Awesome! I grew up in the Valley...It's my home..

362 ryannon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:45:51pm

re: #349 HoosierHoops

I'm from Napa Valley...There has been Mexicans there for generations on end..Farming..Wine growing...Because of the history we have...Napa has always opened it's arms the mexicans and they have deep roots in the Valley.
It's neat that they are great farmers, Great people and good friends.
In fact there is only one type of person not to cared about.. Hollywood people keep moving to Napa setting up shop in their 5 million dollar homes and looking down their noses at the locals..The last 20 years everybody who is anybody buys a home in Napa...That should be covered under the illegal immigration act

How is Coppola seen by the locals?

Or is he even seen at all?

I expect that staff buy the groceries and that he generally doesn't hang out at one of the local bars.

Definitely not a Clint Eastwood kind of guy.

363 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:45:52pm

re: #355 Bagua

Agreed. It is an emotive issue, and surely many could make a compelling argument for residency.

I can't see us getting that far. Really. Ah, damnit, this is no talk for Christmas.

364 badger1970  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:45:54pm

re: #358 WindUpBird

"Cowboy Bebop"- somewhere between now and 2071.

365 Bagua  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:48:29pm

re: #363 SanFranciscoZionist

I can't see us getting that far. Really. Ah, damnit, this is no talk for Christmas.

Agreed, it's not in the holiday spirit and there will be a lot of chewing over Obamacare left to be done with before immigration become the hot issue.

366 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:49:47pm

re: #339 jaunte

Encouraging better civics and English education instead of putting so many resources into a two-track English and Spanish system would help with that.

The identity politics that is ascendant in the education establishment would never tolerate that.

367 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:50:00pm

re: #360 The Sanity Inspector

For much of the past century, up until very recent decades, the governments of Mexico and central America were no friend to their citizens. Having to pay a bribe to every government functionary you deal with must drain a lot of respect for the law out of a person, in addition to the depredations of the police states. I don't see the illegals turning into Jeffersonian small-d democrats upon breathing the magic air of America--especially when their first act is to cock a snoot at the legal means of coming here.

I know an awful lot of 'illegals' who have done just that, though. Good, solid people who have done everything they can to be good Americans, and, where possible, legalize their status. They appreciate the rule of law, having lived without it.

A hundred years ago, they said the same thing you write above about the Sicilians and the Poles and the Irish. Look what happened there!

368 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:50:46pm

re: #360 The Sanity Inspector

For much of the past century, up until very recent decades, the governments of Mexico and central America were no friend to their citizens. Having to pay a bribe to every government functionary you deal with must drain a lot of respect for the law out of a person, in addition to the depredations of the police states. I don't see the illegals turning into Jeffersonian small-d democrats upon breathing the magic air of America--especially when their first act is to cock a snoot at the legal means of coming here.

First of all, there are no legal ways of coming here for most immigrants. There is a lottery. There is no actual process whereby you can prove you would be a good US citizen; there's just random chance.

Second of all, again, the law they are breaking is a misdemeanor law, no greater. And I do know that the reason many people come here is precisely because we have rule of law. It is entirely human nature to cock a snoot at portions of the law, and does not at all speak to the rest of their behavior any more than speeding or violating copyright, like 82%* of all college students and teenagers do, does.

*figure derived rectally.

369 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:51:09pm

re: #338 Bagua

Hahaha!
The Los Angeles Police Department have a policy of NOT asking immigration status. Makes for better "community relations" don't you know!
I'll have to go look up the reasons. I don't recall them right now.

370 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:51:50pm

re: #344 Bagua

Agreed. We would likely grant many residence on good grounds. But when was the the last amnesty? If I'm not mistaken most of these illegals are from recent years.

Corn, wheat, soybeans, out-of-wedlock children, and illegal immigrants: when you subsidize something, you get more of it.

371 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:52:05pm

re: #361 HoosierHoops

Nifty. The fiancee and I don't get up there often enough, but we need to go. Our friend is sick, unfortunately, so not able to receive visitors all that often. I'm just down in SF.

372 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:53:00pm

re: #369 Floral Giraffe

Hahaha!
The Los Angeles Police Department have a policy of NOT asking immigration status. Makes for better "community relations" don't you know!
I'll have to go look up the reasons. I don't recall them right now.

I'm assuming that they know that if they're in any way connected with la migra, no one will ever talk to them again. Tell me what you find out, though.

373 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:53:16pm

re: #367 SanFranciscoZionist

I know an awful lot of 'illegals' who have done just that, though. Good, solid people who have done everything they can to be good Americans, and, where possible, legalize their status. They appreciate the rule of law, having lived without it.

A hundred years ago, they said the same thing you write above about the Sicilians and the Poles and the Irish. Look what happened there!

Don't confuse an opposition with illegal immigration with opposition to immigration per se; you're much too honest a soul for that tactic.

374 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:53:35pm

re: #370 The Sanity Inspector

Corn, wheat, soybeans, out-of-wedlock children, and illegal immigrants: when you subsidize something, you get more of it.

Health care?

375 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:55:11pm

re: #369 Floral Giraffe

Hahaha!
The Los Angeles Police Department have a policy of NOT asking immigration status. Makes for better "community relations" don't you know!
I'll have to go look up the reasons. I don't recall them right now.

So people aren't afraid to report crime. Some complain about this policy.

376 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:55:27pm

re: #373 The Sanity Inspector

Don't confuse an opposition with illegal immigration with opposition to immigration per se; you're much too honest a soul for that tactic.

I don't, and I think you can tell I don't from what I've written, but what you're writing there sounds perilously close to "Mexicans and Central Americans don't make good American citizens." The culture of the mordida, surely, applies to legal immigrants as well as illegal ones. No?

377 Irenicum  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:56:14pm

Hey kids, I'm back for a few. Just read this story in Haaretz about the stolen sign from Auschwitz and how it might have been stolen to fund terrorist operations in Sweden by a Swedish Nazi group. Absolutely bizarre. Thanks God they were able to find the criminals who did this and are apparently able to figure out who was behind it. I also posted it as a link in the music thread above.

378 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:56:49pm

re: #362 ryannon

How is Coppola seen by the locals?

Or is he even seen at all?

I expect that staff buy the groceries and that he generally doesn't hang out at one of the local bars.

Definitely not a Clint Eastwood kind of guy.

He gets a lot of visitors to his Winery....He makes great wine and people like him..I've never heard anything bad about him...It's not the juicy days of the Mondovi brother wars played out in the Napa Register every day..Napa does have delicious gossip...I tell stories now and then...You can't find better stories than in Napa...OK LA has great stories but per square mile of hollywood craziness you can't get more bang for your buck...
Anytime the Hollywood types want to party and go to Napa Valley you know there is fun ahead in some nightclub...They raise the bar to another level..

379 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:56:58pm

re: #377 Irenicum

Hey kids, I'm back for a few. Just read this story in Haaretz about the stolen sign from Auschwitz and how it might have been stolen to fund terrorist operations in Sweden by a Swedish Nazi group. Absolutely bizarre. Thanks God they were able to find the criminals who did this and are apparently able to figure out who was behind it. I also posted it as a link in the music thread above.

I hate Swedish Nazis.

380 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:57:25pm

re: #377 Irenicum

Good to hear. That story was so bizarre.

381 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:57:31pm

re: #372 SanFranciscoZionist

I had forgotten it's name. Special Order 40. It's 30 years old.

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

[Link: news.ncmonline.com...]

382 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:58:36pm

re: #371 Obdicut

Nifty. The fiancee and I don't get up there often enough, but we need to go. Our friend is sick, unfortunately, so not able to receive visitors all that often. I'm just down in SF.

Love the City! The most beautiful city in the world

383 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:59:11pm

re: #378 HoosierHoops

Hoopster, do you have snow for a white Christmas?
Inquiring minds want to know!

384 Gus  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:59:13pm

re: #377 Irenicum

Hey kids, I'm back for a few. Just read this story in Haaretz about the stolen sign from Auschwitz and how it might have been stolen to fund terrorist operations in Sweden by a Swedish Nazi group. Absolutely bizarre. Thanks God they were able to find the criminals who did this and are apparently able to figure out who was behind it. I also posted it as a link in the music thread above.

Keep in mind that's just based on a phone call to the London Times. That being an anonymous source. It's still under investigation.

385 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:59:15pm

re: #377 Irenicum

Hey kids, I'm back for a few. Just read this story in Haaretz about the stolen sign from Auschwitz and how it might have been stolen to fund terrorist operations in Sweden by a Swedish Nazi group. Absolutely bizarre. Thanks God they were able to find the criminals who did this and are apparently able to figure out who was behind it. I also posted it as a link in the music thread above.

The Times previously reported that it was stolen for some deranged souvenir collector, but wouldn't surprise me if the demented souvenir collector was also a neo-nazi.

386 jaunte  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 7:59:57pm

re: #377 Irenicum


...the former leader of a Swedish Nazi group said that it had been stolen to order for a collector in England, France or the United States.

"We had a person who was ready to pay millions for the sign," ...


I'd really like to know who the potential buyer was.

387 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:00:15pm

re: #383 Floral Giraffe

Hoopster, do you have snow for a white Christmas?
Inquiring minds want to know!

He's in Singapore right now. No snow in the tropics, at least not at low altitudes.

388 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:00:46pm

re: #386 jaunte

I'd really like to know who the potential buyer was.

Imagine Interpol would as well. Oh noes!!111!! INTERPOL!!!!1111!!!!

389 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:01:03pm

re: #386 jaunte

I'd really like to know who the potential buyer was.

As would I. He needs a nice long prison term.

390 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:01:04pm

Sidebar: Here's an observation by expatriate curmudgeon Fred Reed, on how Mexicans and Americans view each other in the Mexican town he lives in:

Americans, here and elsewhere, usually regard Mexicans with unconscious condescension as a race of maids and gardeners. In the local English-language fish-wrapper, the Ojo del Lago, one finds endless articles, apparently written by middle-schoolers, about how the writers just love the culture and why, they just had some wonderful Mexican experience only the other day and just respect Mexico sooo much; the tone reminds me of admiration of a collie’s adroitness with a Frisbee. They do not know that they are doing this. The Mexicans regard the Americans as helpless greyhairs who always seem lost, and walk with the body language of a mouse in a herpetarium; Mexicans do not know that many of the gringos have had lives and know things and were not always old and out of their element. It is an orgy of mutual underestimation.

Good night and Merry Christmas to all.

391 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:01:09pm

re: #386 jaunte

I'd really like to know who the potential buyer was.

I don't think you're alone, in this wish.......

392 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:01:20pm

re: #386 jaunte

I'd really like to know who the potential buyer was.

RS McCain

393 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:01:35pm

re: #374 Alouette

Health care?

It works with goods, we can only hope it works with services.

394 jaunte  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:02:00pm

re: #392 Alouette

I think he can only afford the plastic scale model.

395 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:02:07pm

re: #390 The Sanity Inspector

Sidebar: Here's an observation by expatriate curmudgeon Fred Reed, on how Mexicans and Americans view each other in the Mexican town he lives in:

Americans, here and elsewhere, usually regard Mexicans with unconscious condescension as a race of maids and gardeners. In the local English-language fish-wrapper, the Ojo del Lago, one finds endless articles, apparently written by middle-schoolers, about how the writers just love the culture and why, they just had some wonderful Mexican experience only the other day and just respect Mexico sooo much; the tone reminds me of admiration of a collie’s adroitness with a Frisbee. They do not know that they are doing this. The Mexicans regard the Americans as helpless greyhairs who always seem lost, and walk with the body language of a mouse in a herpetarium; Mexicans do not know that many of the gringos have had lives and know things and were not always old and out of their element. It is an orgy of mutual underestimation.

Good night and Merry Christmas to all.

That's hilarious. Merry Christmas!

396 Randall Gross  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:02:13pm

re: #377 Irenicum

Hey kids, I'm back for a few. Just read this story in Haaretz about the stolen sign from Auschwitz and how it might have been stolen to fund terrorist operations in Sweden by a Swedish Nazi group. Absolutely bizarre. Thanks God they were able to find the criminals who did this and are apparently able to figure out who was behind it. I also posted it as a link in the music thread above.

Probably people Fjordman knows.

397 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:02:34pm

re: #394 jaunte

I think he can only afford the plastic scale model.

Oh well then, the Koch brothers.

398 Irenicum  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:02:54pm

re: #385 Alouette

Exactly. For some reason that reminds of that scene in Falling Down in the Army/Navy store where Michael Douglas is talking to the owner of the store, and as crazy as Michael's character is, the store owner is completely batshit crazy. I love that movie!

399 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:04:09pm

re: #383 Floral Giraffe

Hoopster, do you have snow for a white Christmas?
Inquiring minds want to know!

It all melted away.. It's raining here....I'm not having a white Christmas..
Never have had one....Hope you are well...We did the Christmas thing at 4pm today then had dinner....
What to hear something funny? They were doing the dogs barking to jingle bells the other day..Windton starting running around the room looking for dogs that bark in tune...Drove him crazy

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:04:32pm

I really hope this isn't as awful as it seems to be.

Sorry. Started reading Ha'aretz links.

401 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:05:42pm

re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist

I really hope this isn't as awful as it seems to be.

Sorry. Started reading Ha'aretz links.

I know this guy. He is a scumbag.

402 Irenicum  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:07:34pm

re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist

Holy cow, that's just awful!

403 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:08:07pm

Albusteve - I can't get your post outta my mind. Can I send you a plant or something?

404 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:09:17pm

re: #399 HoosierHoops

It's only snow. Cold, wet stuff, anyway. Your Winston's a keeper.
You going to change your avatar to Winston dressed up for Christmas?
{{HH}}
Merry Christmas, my friend!

405 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:10:40pm

re: #401 Alouette

I know this guy. He is a scumbag.

OK, so it probably is that awful.

I am impressed that the young woman still wants to be a giyoret after this mess. I hope she finds a better class of rabbi.

406 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:14:08pm

re: #399 HoosierHoops

It all melted away.. It's raining here...I'm not having a white Christmas..
Never have had one...Hope you are well...We did the Christmas thing at 4pm today then had dinner...
What to hear something funny? They were doing the dogs barking to jingle bells the other day..Windton starting running around the room looking for dogs that bark in tune...Drove him crazy

It's raining here in Chicago too.

407 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:14:54pm

re: #405 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, so it probably is that awful.

I am impressed that the young woman still wants to be a giyoret after this mess. I hope she finds a better class of rabbi.

It's not something that I would like to discuss on LGF. Very squalid and shameful for our community.

408 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:15:00pm

re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist

a prominent Orthodox rabbi has been caught on tape discussing his apparent love affair with a shiksa he was converting to Judaism.

...

The bulk of the report deals with embarrassing comments that the rabbi made during a phone call, during which he was recorded demanding the woman perform a number of sexual services for himself and his friends in exchange for granting her a conversion certificate.

That really doesn't sound much like love to me.

409 Digital Display  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:15:05pm

re: #404 Floral Giraffe

It's only snow. Cold, wet stuff, anyway. Your Winston's a keeper.
You going to change your avatar to Winston dressed up for Christmas?
{{HH}}
Merry Christmas, my friend!

Merry Christmas to you!
I have this crazy idea of putting Winston on a flottie in the Hot Tub while it is snowing and him in a Colts sweater..sunglasses and a bud light near by..
I think it will be the perfect winter avatar

410 drogheda  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:18:54pm

re: #385 Alouette

The Times previously reported that it was stolen for some deranged souvenir collector, but wouldn't surprise me if the demented souvenir collector was also a neo-nazi.

That's what I thought when I first saw it was stolen, that somewhere there'd be a neo-nazi connection of some sort when all was said and done. I could be wrong of course. Might just be some collector of morbid artifacts.

411 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:22:42pm

re: #410 drogheda

That's what I thought when I first saw it was stolen, that somewhere there'd be a neo-nazi connection of some sort when all was said and done. I could be wrong of course. Might just be some collector of morbid artifacts.

This could be the beginning of a "Da Vinci Code"-style novel, there's some secret code on the sign leading to a hoard of nazi gold or some occult secrets.

412 Irenicum  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:23:06pm

re: #407 Alouette

re: #408 Obdicut

I know it's wrong, but I can't help but think of that Seinfeld episode with Elaine and the rabbi. She must have shiksappeal.

413 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:25:14pm

re: #409 HoosierHoops

As long as he's having fun!
It's all good.

414 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:25:27pm

re: #411 Alouette

We solved that mystery already. The gold is in Switzerland.

415 Irenicum  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:25:36pm

re: #412 Irenicum

Here's the link:

416 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:55:57pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

As am I. Pelosi, Reid, and their crew have a vested interest in ACORN beating the rap. Even if ACORN didn't break the law on this, it is still a rotten leftist organization.

Damn, it must be horrible to be you two, seeing monsters in every closet.

417 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 8:59:57pm

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

No, I am quite serious. ACORN is an organization dedicated to moving this country far to the left. Thus they are inherently bad in my eyes.

Any organizations dedicated to moving the country right? Yes? Should even out then.

418 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:01:12pm

re: #46 Big Steve

If Acorn broke no laws, then why were they apologizing like crazy after the sting tapes?

I saw your logic taking off and running out the door. If you run real fast you might catch it.

419 Locker  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:06:24pm

Now this was a fun thread to read. Let's review the stated campaigns of ACORN as opposed to the conspiracy theories.

acorn.org

Affordable Housing
Better Schools
Fair Housing
Fair Tax Fees
Foreclosures
Gulf Coast Recovery
Health Care
Immigration
Living Wage
Paid Sick Days
Predatory Lending
Utilities
Voter Engagement

420 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:16:30pm

re: #419 Locker

Now this was a fun thread to read. Let's review the stated campaigns of ACORN as opposed to the conspiracy theories.

acorn.org

Affordable Housing
Better Schools
Fair Housing
Fair Tax Fees
Foreclosures
Gulf Coast Recovery
Health Care
Immigration
Living Wage
Paid Sick Days
Predatory Lending
Utilities
Voter Engagement

Inherently bad, those things! Can;t have that!
///

421 [deleted]  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:16:36pm
422 freetoken  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:20:48pm

re: #421 tomh64

Don't know to whom you are referring, but I'm pretty much posting the same as I've done from my first post here.

423 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:23:22pm

re: #69 Dark_Falcon

Registering people to vote is not all ACORN does. They also push left wing agenda items such as the "living wage" (which drives up unemployment), and sub-prime lending (via the Community Reinvestment Act, which helped cause the mortgage meltdown). No, ACORN's agenda is one of redistribution and statism and such an agenda is very bad in my eyes.

From: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

"The law, however, emphasizes that an institution's CRA activities should be undertaken in a safe and sound manner, and does not require institutions to make high-risk loans that may bring losses to the institution."

("Community Reinvestment Act". Federal Reserve Board (FRB). [Link: www.federalreserve.gov...] Retrieved 2008-10-05.

"Prepared Speech, The Community Reinvestment Act: Its Evolution and New Challenges". Ben S. Bernanke, Chairman of the Federal Reserve System. before the Community Affairs Research Conference. 2007-03-30. p. Federal Reserve System (FRB). [Link: www.federalreserve.gov...]

"Housing advocacy groups were also leaders in the fight against subprime lending in low- and moderate-income communities, "In fact, community advocates had been telling the Federal Reserve about the dangers of subprime lending since the 1990s", according to Inner City Press. "For example, Bronx-based Fair Finance Watch commented to the Federal Reserve about the practices of now-defunct non-bank subprime lender New Century, when U.S. Bancorp bought warrants for 24% of New Century's stock. The Fed, rather than take any action on New Century, merely waited until U.S. Bancorp sold off some of the warrants, and then said the issue was moot." However, subprime loans were so profitable, that they were aggressively marketed in low-and moderate-income communities, even over the objections and warnings of housing advocacy groups like ACORN."


( Subprime Stoked By Deregulation and Bipartisan Greed, not Community Reinvestment Act, Inner City Press, September 28, 2008)
424 [deleted]  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:46:25pm
425 [deleted]  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 9:48:30pm
426 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 24, 2009 10:04:11pm

Bye now! Have a Merry Christmas somewhere else.

427 Vambo  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 7:44:46am

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

Lift-winger, yes. Bad, no. Another part of what I hate about ACORN is the way they protest in front of people's homes if said people oppose them,

Protest in front of peoples' homes? That's nothing new. How about protests circa the Great Depression where the unemployed and homeless would vandalize bankers' homes.

What if a right wing group did that same thing, wouldn't they be exalted for standing up to "big government"?

the thuggish way they take over meetings and try to shout down those who disagree with them, and the lies they tell to get their way.

Where was that?

The Tea Party? Ron Paul's minions?

428 S.D.  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 7:55:51am

Hardly a surprise, but the Right wing will just Spin it and ignore any facts...

Off Topic: Merry Christmas!

429 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 8:18:16am

1. What did they find that happenned 5years and 1 day ago?
2. If Acorn is really as clean as the driven snow, then why did Obama throw them under the bus?
3. The report is full of evasive weasel wording.
Acorn is a stinking cesspool of corruption and a Dem tool.

430 Mark Pennington  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 9:19:11am

It's all paranoid conspiracy theories and a huge suspicion of anything that tries to raise the democratic power of poor people up to their full potential. ACORN's major crime, to the right wing, is that they try to get poor people to vote. Everything that's actually thrown at them is thrown from that perspective, and anyone who actually thinks they're being "neutral" or who thinks they're coming at it from a liberal perspective (inside criticism, sort of) needs to examine where the original idea that ACORN is "guilty" of something, as an organization, came from.

When was the last time a left-winger went to dozens of offices of a right wing organization, attempted to entrap low-level employees, and then selectively edited the hell out of the video in an attempt to make it as outrageous as possible?

ACORN was tried and declared guilty by right wing media seconds after these video's came out. Based solely on edited video's, the government cut off funding, people lost their jobs, and the organization has been severely compromised. This has been bullshit from the beginning.

431 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 9:48:59am
432 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 10:50:20am

Even on Christmas Day they flounce.

433 Mark Pennington  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 10:56:26am

re: #431 SlothB77

What are you talking about? A few were convicted of registration fraud, not voter fraud. Aiding the prostitution of underage foreign nationals? That sounds really dramatic, doesn't it? There was no aiding of child prostitution.
"aiding/abetting" in the legal sense means being an accomplice in an actual crime. No actual criminal act was involved here.

I don't know about Charles but I'm taking the side of ACORN over 3 people who I think are horrible human beings...the two actors and Andrew Breitbart.

434 Mark Pennington  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 10:57:15am

re: #432 Charles

Even on Christmas Day they flounce.

:D I posted a comment to the idiot. Sorry Charles.

435 doubter4444  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:08:09am

re: #134 albusteve

heh...the whole thing is pretty oily imo

I think the real point is that the whole thing is a molehill, not a mountain.
Yes Acorn is oily, and wrongfully does things, but it seems that it did not do anything illegal. Different from being a "good" organization. But the demonetization of the organization, like most of the other demonetization, is way of of wack to the amount of influence they wield.
It's been the hallmark to go overboard and it makes the right look like fools.
As for the "reporters" they took advantage of some undereducated people, edited the video to wreak maximum havoc, and look as bad as possible.
The people should be fired, and their actions not condoned in any way, but it's nothing to freak out about.
How's that, for a compromise on a Christmas day?

436 Locker  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:31:20am

re: #429 Spare O'Lake

1. What did they find that happenned 5years and 1 day ago?
2. If Acorn is really as clean as the driven snow, then why did Obama throw them under the bus?
3. The report is full of evasive weasel wording.
Acorn is a stinking cesspool of corruption and a Dem tool.

And you are a nutbag who can't be convinced that their opinion is wrong no matter what the evidence. If Jesus appeared before you and told you that ACORN was good and simply trying to help people you'd come up with some explanation about how Jesus was blinking his eyelids in Morse Code telling you that the opposite was true and to ignore the words coming out of his mouth.

437 WTF!  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 7:43:32pm

I thought Dummie Underground has some retards but you dumbfucks take the cake. Never have I seen on a site where people follow an idiot (King Charles) so blindly. LMAO!!!! Hey Charles I know you are going to ban me because you can't take the heat being a thinned skin little pussy but I'll try to register after the elections and and come on here and laugh at you for being so damn stupid and wrong. You actually think Americans are going to keep putting up with record unemployment ,higher taxes record deficits and all the other stuff this commie Admin is doing? Keep dreaming! Now all of you little retard followers jump in and stroke his ego so he doesn't cry and shat himself!!

BTW Sarah Palin isn't making any laws that are destroying this country ya stupid twat!!!

Hurry up and erase this Charles so everybody can't see what a true IDIOT you are. hurry now

438 jaunte  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 7:44:50pm

re: #437 WTF!

I'm going to send Charles another $20 for that one. Go for two!

439 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 25, 2009 7:47:01pm

re: #437 WTF!

Merry Christmas!


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