TSA Backs Off Silly New Rules

TravelDecember 2009 • Views: 19,386

Reuters is reporting that the Transportation Security Administration has now eased their silly new rules.

The TSA will now let pilots decide whether to allow passengers to keep items in their laps or require them to remain seated during portions of the flight, said the source who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The TSA also will let pilots and airlines determine whether in-flight entertainment systems that show a plane’s location should be turned off to avoid a security risk, the source said.

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175 comments

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:21:43pm

This is good news since they would do nothing but make some bureaucrats think they had addressed the problem, they have not yet done so. See my comments last thread.

windsagio Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:22:53pm

My view is that those were good short-term responses, but simply unreasonable and useless as long-term rules.

Its good that they removed them quickly tho'!

S.D. Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:22:53pm

Makes sense, but how do they determine when it's "safe"?

I think the Lap rule was an overreaction, to say the least...

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:24:06pm

The TSA also will let pilots and airlines determine whether in-flight entertainment systems that show a plane’s location should be turned off to avoid a security risk, the source said.

It doesn't take a piece of technology to figure out when the plane is over a populated area. What next? Cover the windows? Take away all watches? Blindfold the passengers?

windsagio Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:25:04pm

re: #3 S.D.

I'd say a day or 2. It feels to me like their concern is for people using the same methods at the same time, so it makes sense to make various restrictions based on the method used (in this case, going into the bathroom to prepare, then hiding the materials under a blanket).

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:25:27pm

And, if a terrorist wants to inflict damage on the ground as was done in Lockerbie, what's to stop him from doing so the minute the seat-belt sign is taken off?

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:25:37pm

Uh, turned off.

Sheila Broflovski Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:25:43pm

Woman sits in urine-soaked airplane seat.

(OK its from 2 years ago, but still...)

windsagio Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:26:14pm

re: #4 MandyManners

also, they could just do it as the plane prepares to land. That rule was just retarded.

re: #6 MandyManners

Thats even 'better'. Yeah, I'm with you, the seatback thing was silly.

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:28:06pm

re: #6 MandyManners

And, if a terrorist wants to inflict damage on the ground as was done in Lockerbie, what's to stop him from doing so the minute the seat-belt sign is taken off?

Explosives shouldn't be able to be smuggled into an airport without detection systems triggering. We can do this through new tech, or old tech (sniffer dogs, rats, insects) It doesn't have to be expensive.

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:29:44pm

re: #9 windsagio

also, they could just do it as the plane prepares to land. That rule was just retarded.

re: #6 MandyManners

Thats even 'better'. Yeah, I'm with you, the seatback thing was silly.

I'm thinking the authorities just threw these rules out there to make it look as if *something* is being done.

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:30:39pm

re: #10 Thanos

Explosives shouldn't be able to be smuggled into an airport without detection systems triggering. We can do this through new tech, or old tech (sniffer dogs, rats, insects) It doesn't have to be expensive.

Exactly.

My sister has had to walk through a "puffer" machine that detects explosives. Are they expensive?

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:31:10pm

re: #12 MandyManners

Exactly.

My sister has had to walk through a "puffer" machine that detects explosives. Are they expensive?

Right now yes, but they don't have to be.

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:31:30pm

re: #10 Thanos

Explosives shouldn't be able to be smuggled into an airport without detection systems triggering. We can do this through new tech, or old tech (sniffer dogs, rats, insects) It doesn't have to be expensive.

About dogs: what if some Muslim raised hell at being subjected to a dog coming near him/her because dogs are considered haraam?

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:32:08pm

re: #13 Thanos

Right now yes, but they don't have to be.

The more are made, the cheaper they get, like calculators and transistor radios?

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:32:58pm

re: #14 MandyManners

About dogs: what if some Muslim raised hell at being subjected to a dog coming near him/her because dogs are considered haraam?

Insects, rats, and other low maintenance critters could be used instead.

SteveMcG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:33:42pm

re: #11 MandyManners

I remember the national guardsmen at the airports carrying weapons. You could walk right up to them and say hi. A bad guy could simply have walked up, decked him and ran away with a loaded weapon. That's why I'm so sure they were only there for show.

windsagio Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:34:28pm

re: #13 Thanos

You seem to know alot about this; why is the technology so expensive?

Charles Johnson Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:35:26pm

re: #17 SteveMcG

I remember the national guardsmen at the airports carrying weapons. You could walk right up to them and say hi. A bad guy could simply have walked up, decked him and ran away with a loaded weapon. That's why I'm so sure they were only there for show.

No, it was worse than that. Those weapons the National Guard were carrying in airports after 9/11 were not loaded. It was totally for show.

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:36:33pm

re: #15 MandyManners

The more are made, the cheaper they get, like calculators and transistor radios?

Yes, and if it became federal reg that all airport doors have broad spectrum sniffers the economy of scale would kick in. Compare the costs of smoke and carbon monoxide detectors now vs. when they first came out.
We would get occasional false positives with layered systems like this, and wouldn't be able to ID the perp right away, but we would keep explosives off planes.

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:37:58pm

re: #16 Thanos

Insects, rats, and other low maintenance critters could be used instead.

I'm trying to envision a rat on a leash.

SixDegrees Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:38:15pm

Glad to hear the TSA has backtracked on these directives. They were being openly mocked by even the most reasonable commentators, and were truly ineffective anyway, adding worthlessness to their corrosive effect on the TSA's already shaky image.

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:38:36pm

re: #18 windsagio

You seem to know alot about this; why is the technology so expensive?

Right now the machines they use are very broad spectrum -- designed to pick up even the arcane flavors. That takes a lot of doing. If however they were just "C4 and PETN" detectors and mass produced, the costs would drop, and they could be everywhere.

Gus Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:38:37pm

re: #12 MandyManners

Exactly.

My sister has had to walk through a "puffer" machine that detects explosives. Are they expensive?

Wiki says $160,000.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Firstinla Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:38:58pm

re: #14 MandyManners

About dogs: what if some Muslim raised hell at being subjected to a dog coming near him/her because dogs are considered haraam?

One doesn't have any option when going through security at Tulsa International: if you want to fly you have to go through the full body scanner that literally removes all clothing...even if nudity is religiously offensive. How much deference do we pay for security?

DaddyG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:39:09pm

re: #20 Thanos

Yes, and if it became federal reg that all airport doors have broad spectrum sniffers the economy of scale would kick in. Compare the costs of smoke and carbon monoxide detectors now vs. when they first came out.
We would get occasional false positives with layered systems like this, and wouldn't be able to ID the perp right away, but we would keep explosives off planes.

Profiling!

ryannon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:39:42pm

re: #4 MandyManners

The TSA also will let pilots and airlines determine whether in-flight entertainment systems that show a plane’s location should be turned off to avoid a security risk, the source said.

It doesn't take a piece of technology to figure out when the plane is over a populated area. What next? Cover the windows? Take away all watches? Blindfold the passengers?

Would you like a black hood or a white hood, Ma'm? And there's a five dollar charge for silk.

wrenchwench Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:39:51pm

re: #21 MandyManners

I'm trying to envision a rat on a leash.

No imagination needed!

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:39:56pm

re: #17 SteveMcG

I remember the national guardsmen at the airports carrying weapons. You could walk right up to them and say hi. A bad guy could simply have walked up, decked him and ran away with a loaded weapon. That's why I'm so sure they were only there for show.

I could be wrong but, I don't see a guardsman allowing himself to be decked.

windsagio Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:40:21pm

re: #21 MandyManners

heh, you need to spend more time in any major cities' college district. I swear theres some goth with a rat on a leash every block!

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:40:22pm

re: #20 Thanos

Yes, and if it became federal reg that all airport doors have broad spectrum sniffers the economy of scale would kick in. Compare the costs of smoke and carbon monoxide detectors now vs. when they first came out.
We would get occasional false positives with layered systems like this, and wouldn't be able to ID the perp right away, but we would keep explosives off planes.

Let's do it.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:40:27pm

re: #19 Charles

There's a psychological term for the phenomenon of the illusion of security calming people down and resulting in actual security (or not, but that's the idea, i guess) I can't think of it, and it's driving me nuts.

DaddyG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:40:46pm

re: #28 wrenchwench

No imagination needed!

The rat doesn't bother me but those socks must be against the will of God! /

SixDegrees Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:40:51pm

re: #14 MandyManners

About dogs: what if some Muslim raised hell at being subjected to a dog coming near him/her because dogs are considered haraam?

See my posts downstairs: in that case, we start using bears. A bear's sense of smell, I'm told, is something like 100 times more sensitive than a bloodhound's. They can allegedly tell the difference between factory sealed cans, one filled with food and the other with sand, by smell alone.

Plus, they're intimidating as hell.

ryannon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:40:56pm

re: #8 Alouette

Woman sits in urine-soaked airplane seat.

(OK its from 2 years ago, but still...)

Good grief, what a story.

Do you archive these things?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:40:59pm

re: #30 windsagio

heh, you need to spend more time in any major cities' college district. I swear theres some goth with a rat on a leash every block!

This may be the weirdest statement you'll read on LGF today :D

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:41:17pm

re: #24 Gus 802

Wiki says $160,000.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I wonder how much one costs to produce.

windsagio Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:41:39pm

re: #36 Windupbird

nevertheless true!

That and kittens on leashes.

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:41:39pm

re: #25 Firstinla

One doesn't have any option when going through security at Tulsa International: if you want to fly you have to go through the full body scanner that literally removes all clothing...even if nudity is religiously offensive. How much deference do we pay for security?

Ummm...ever heard of CAIR?

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:42:03pm

re: #27 ryannon

Would you like a black hood or a white hood, Ma'm? And there's a five dollar charge for silk.

Pink, please.

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:43:07pm

Has anyone heard about the ambulance sent to BHO's residence in Hawaii?

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:43:28pm

The task of the Puffer is to identify is a particular person has explosives on them, whereas it might be better to just have a machine that detects if there are explosives trace signatures in the airport air.
Instead of screening person by person you screen for "are explosives here?"

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:43:30pm

re: #25 Firstinla

One doesn't have any option when going through security at Tulsa International: if you want to fly you have to go through the full body scanner that literally removes all clothing...even if nudity is religiously offensive. How much deference do we pay for security?

I'm all for it. But I'm a guy, and also not really concerned with people seeing me naked. "Oh look, a spindly thirty-something with no upper body strength!"

Charles Johnson Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:44:07pm

re: #34 SixDegrees

See my posts downstairs: in that case, we start using bears. A bear's sense of smell, I'm told, is something like 100 times more sensitive than a bloodhound's. They can allegedly tell the difference between factory sealed cans, one filled with food and the other with sand, by smell alone.

Plus, they're intimidating as hell.

That would really make flying a lot more fun, if you had to run a gauntlet of giant rats and grizzly bears before boarding.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:44:14pm

re: #19 Charles

No, it was worse than that. Those weapons the National Guard were carrying in airports after 9/11 were not loaded. It was totally for show.

But, to add to the comedy of the show... EVERYBODY KNEW THEY WEREN'T LOADED!

windsagio Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:44:15pm

re: #25 Firstinla

Missed this 'til MM quoted it. Now I have an image of a Rube Goldberg-esque device with giant white-gloved hands daintily picking peoples clothes off >>

SteveC Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:44:18pm

re: #21 MandyManners

I'm trying to envision a rat on a leash.

It's easy. Imagine a Senator.....

///

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:44:59pm

re: #34 SixDegrees

See my posts downstairs: in that case, we start using bears. A bear's sense of smell, I'm told, is something like 100 times more sensitive than a bloodhound's. They can allegedly tell the difference between factory sealed cans, one filled with food and the other with sand, by smell alone.

Plus, they're intimidating as hell.

Can we afford them?

Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:45:13pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Has anyone heard about the ambulance sent to BHO's residence in Hawaii?

[Link: twitter.com...]

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:45:18pm

re: #44 Charles

That would really make flying a lot more fun, if you had to run a gauntlet of giant rats and grizzly bears before boarding.

"ONLY YOU, MF-ER! GRRR!"

SteveMcG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:45:26pm

re: #19 Charles

re: #29 MandyManners

Out of curiosity, I stood right next to one while my wife was stopped for some reason. (This was November 2001) The guy had both hands down on the gun. He wasn't even looking at me. I forget whether he had any support, like another guardsman in contact. I could have gone to a duty free store, bought a heavy bottle of booze, brought it back and cracked him in the back of the head. There's no way he would have been so casual if he was carrying a loaded weapon.

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:45:30pm

re: #47 SteveC

It's easy. Imagine a Senator...

///

Thats an insult to rats!
//

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:45:38pm

re: #44 Charles

That would really make flying a lot more fun, if you had to run a gauntlet of giant rats and grizzly bears before boarding.

I'm imagining some sort of PT Barnum looking security checkpoint, one of those wheeled ornate cages with a bear wearing a fez sniffing travellers as they walk by.

SixDegrees Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:45:49pm

re: #44 Charles

That would really make flying a lot more fun, if you had to run a gauntlet of giant rats and grizzly bears before boarding.

Just make sure you didn't leave a candy bar in your back pocket.

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:46:41pm

re: #42 Thanos

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

An Airport Screening Program Is Killed

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 21, 2009
WASHINGTON (AP) — The government is scrapping a post-Sept. 11, 2001, airport screening program because the machines did not operate as intended and cost too much to maintain.

The so-called puffer machines were deployed to airports in 2004 to screen randomly selected passengers for bombs after they cleared the standard metal detectors. The machines take 17 seconds to check a passenger and can analyze particles as small as one-billionth of a gram.

They also break down when exposed to dirt or humidity, the Transportation Security Administration said in a statement Thursday. Since 2005, maintaining the machines has cost the government more than $6 million.

SteveC Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:47:02pm

re: #41 MandyManners

Has anyone heard about the ambulance sent to BHO's residence in Hawaii?

"Injury to a family friend." - sounds like children were playing together and someone had an accident. Hopefully the paramedics will treat on scene or a trip to the hospital as a precaution.

ryannon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:47:12pm

re: #40 MandyManners

Pink, please.

Turning to the air marshal: 'We've got a problem passenger here'.

sagehen Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:47:13pm

re: #34 SixDegrees

See my posts downstairs: in that case, we start using bears. A bear's sense of smell, I'm told, is something like 100 times more sensitive than a bloodhound's. They can allegedly tell the difference between factory sealed cans, one filled with food and the other with sand, by smell alone.

Plus, they're intimidating as hell.

Pigs also have an excellent sense of smell (truffles!!), but I guess that'd be even more upsetting than the dogs.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:47:21pm

re: #14 MandyManners

About dogs: what if some Muslim raised hell at being subjected to a dog coming near him/her because dogs are considered haraam?

If they started using dogs routinely, I'd ask a number of influential American and European Muslim leaders to issue statements (is fatwa the right word here?) poskening that being sniffed by a dog at the airport is acceptable. It might calm people down, at least.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:47:25pm

re: #44 Charles

I like the idea of naked flights. It would make it real hard to sneak anything onto a plane, and as an added bonus, it would have more of an impact on reducing teen pregnancy than any "abstinence only" program.

The Sanity Inspector Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:47:48pm

re: #25 Firstinla

One doesn't have any option when going through security at Tulsa International: if you want to fly you have to go through the full body scanner that literally removes all clothing...even if nudity is religiously offensive. How much deference do we pay for security?

As much deference as lawsuits funded by limitless Saudi petro-billions say we have to pay.

sagehen Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:48:37pm

re: #44 Charles

That would really make flying a lot more fun, if you had to run a gauntlet of giant rats and grizzly bears before boarding.

We don't call them giant rats. They're R.O.U.S.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:48:39pm

re: #17 SteveMcG

I remember the national guardsmen at the airports carrying weapons. You could walk right up to them and say hi. A bad guy could simply have walked up, decked him and ran away with a loaded weapon. That's why I'm so sure they were only there for show.

My former boss had his kid get away from him into the restricted area at an airport, with National Guardsmen chugging after the kid, screaming "Halt, Halt!"

Then again, this is the former boss I always said should write a book on 'Evangelical Parenting For People With Real Kids".

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:49:00pm

re: #55 Bobibutu

Since 2005, maintaining the machines has cost the government more than $6 million.

4 years, all those airports and machines,,

6 million sounds cheap to me. IF they work at all, and IF they've picked up stuff, 1.25 million a year to maintain is peanuts, imho

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:49:03pm

re: #19 Charles

No, it was worse than that. Those weapons the National Guard were carrying in airports after 9/11 were not loaded. It was totally for show.

That would explain why they didn't shoot Kevin.

Gus Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:49:08pm

re: #37 MandyManners

I wonder how much one costs to produce.

Don't know. Found a GE scanner:

GE EntryScan³

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:49:32pm

re: #21 MandyManners

I'm trying to envision a rat on a leash.

They do make them. Harnesses, with little leashes attached.

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:49:33pm

re: #55 Bobibutu

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

An Airport Screening Program Is Killed

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 21, 2009
WASHINGTON (AP) — The government is scrapping a post-Sept. 11, 2001, airport screening program because the machines did not operate as intended and cost too much to maintain.

The so-called puffer machines were deployed to airports in 2004 to screen randomly selected passengers for bombs after they cleared the standard metal detectors. The machines take 17 seconds to check a passenger and can analyze particles as small as one-billionth of a gram.

They also break down when exposed to dirt or humidity, the Transportation Security Administration said in a statement Thursday. Since 2005, maintaining the machines has cost the government more than $6 million.

Right. But most homes in the US have effective cheap CO2 and Smoke detectors. If we stop trying to do the perfect search passenger by passenger and look for the most common explosives in the airport air with simple detectors I suspect we would be doing more than that detector program did to ensure safety.

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:49:37pm

re: #58 sagehen

Pigs also have an excellent sense of smell (truffles!!), but I guess that'd be even more upsetting than the dogs.

but tastier!

Firstinla Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:49:47pm

re: #39 MandyManners

Mandy: I tried bringing up CAIR but IE won't let me open it. I'll keep trying. I've learned a lot from the good folks at LGF and if for no other reason than education, this is the bestest damn blog ever.

SteveMcG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:50:09pm

If the instruments were that sensitive I think that the bad guys would just start overwhelming the system with false positives. You could probably get somebody on a concourse to brush against passengers, carry ons, etc. and transfer some material.

Gus Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:50:12pm

re: #66 Gus 802

Don't know. Found a GE scanner:

GE EntryScan³

And another manufacturer:

IONSCAN SENTINEL II

Don't think these can detect a binary explosive. Maybe?

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:50:34pm

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

If they started using dogs routinely, I'd ask a number of influential American and European Muslim leaders to issue statements (is fatwa the right word here?) poskening that being sniffed by a dog at the airport is acceptable. It might calm people down, at least.

My understanding and experience is that any contact with a dog requires a complete washing (read shower) before praying.

Gus Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:50:47pm

re: #72 Gus 802

And another manufacturer:

IONSCAN SENTINEL II

Don't think these can detect a binary explosive. Maybe?

Never mind:

Explosives Detected RDX, PETN, TNT, Semtex, NG and others

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:51:22pm

re: #47 SteveC

It's easy. Imagine a Senator...

///

Rats are much sweeter.

sagehen Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:51:30pm

re: #60 Slumbering Behemoth

I like the idea of naked flights. It would make it real hard to sneak anything onto a plane, and as an added bonus, it would have more of an impact on reducing teen pregnancy than any "abstinence only" program.

It would also make it easier for me to decide which men I'd let have my number before we deplane...

windsagio Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:51:41pm

re: #72 Gus 802
re: #71 SteveMcG

Then we get into the joy of explaining the joys of actuarial tables to the general public >

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:52:10pm

re: #64 sattv4u2

Since 2005, maintaining the machines has cost the government more than $6 million.

4 years, all those airports and machines,,

6 million sounds cheap to me. IF they work at all, and IF they've picked up stuff, 1.25 million a year to maintain is peanuts, imho

IF is the key here. My understanding is that the failure rate was unacceptable.

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:52:21pm

re: #75 SanFranciscoZionist

Rats are much sweeter.

in bed

abolitionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:52:35pm

re: #32 Windupbird

There's a psychological term for the phenomenon of the illusion of security calming people down and resulting in actual security (or not, but that's the idea, i guess) I can't think of it, and it's driving me nuts.

You gotta try this new drug. It's fantasic. It's called placebo. --George Carlin

(wild guess)

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:52:36pm

re: #58 sagehen

Pigs also have an excellent sense of smell (truffles!!), but I guess that'd be even more upsetting than the dogs.

Potbellied pigs would make ideal explosive sniffers. Very nice little guys.

windsagio Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:53:10pm

re: #79 sattv4u2

in bed

Have to ask WUB about that one!

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:53:59pm

re: #78 Bobibutu

IF is the key here. My understanding is that the failure rate was unacceptable.

Failure as far as machines breaking down, or failure as far as readings (alarms going off when no substance was there) Because if it's the former, as I stated, 6 million over 4 years (considering how many machines there must be in the country) is peanuts

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:54:23pm

re: #73 Bobibutu

My understanding and experience is that any contact with a dog requires a complete washing (read shower) before praying.

Hmmm. I would still go to the experts. Is there a concept of a dispensation in Islam?

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:54:34pm

re: #70 Firstinla

Louisiana or Los Angeles? Or Lower Albany?

The Sanity Inspector Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:54:47pm

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

If they started using dogs routinely, I'd ask a number of influential American and European Muslim leaders to issue statements (is fatwa the right word here?) poskening that being sniffed by a dog at the airport is acceptable. It might calm people down, at least.

No one's in charge of Islam, as the fatwas against terrorism have shown.

SteveC Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:54:53pm

re: #34 SixDegrees

See my posts downstairs: in that case, we start using bears.

Two guys want to go camping in the Great Smokey Mountains Park. To do so, you have to attend a one day safety course and get a "license". The safety course exists for obvious reasons, and the license so that the park rangers know who is camping in the park and their location. So our two heroes attend the course and get the form.

They are walking in the woods when they come around the bend and there is a bear! Now at the safety course, they had been taught that if you happened to run across a bear, show no fear. Don't charge, but don't run, either. Stand your ground. The bear may sniff you but will eventually leave.

One of the campers panics and runs. The bear charges after him. The other camper is trying to stand his ground but turns and runs when it seems that the bear is going to run him over to catch the other fellow!

"HEY!" The 2nd camper says as they are running. "They said don't run from the bear! If you run from the bear he will chase you and you can't outrun him!"

"I don't have to outrun the bear," the first guy pants. "I have to outrun you!"

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:55:02pm

re: #70 Firstinla

Mandy: I tried bringing up CAIR but IE won't let me open it. I'll keep trying. I've learned a lot from the good folks at LGF and if for no other reason than education, this is the bestest damn blog ever.

Enter it into LGF's search engine to find some tags.

Firstinla Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:55:20pm

re: #85 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Firstinla Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:55:58pm

re: #88 MandyManners

Thanks!

The Sanity Inspector Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:56:09pm

re: #60 Slumbering Behemoth

I like the idea of naked flights. It would make it real hard to sneak anything onto a plane, and as an added bonus, it would have more of an impact on reducing teen pregnancy than any "abstinence only" program.

Naked passengers being sniffed up by dogs, rats, and bears. There's a Sundance award waiting for the indie film that results from that image.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:56:13pm

re: #86 The Sanity Inspector

No one's in charge of Islam, as the fatwas against terrorism have shown.

This is true, however, coming from a religion with a similar non-structure, I do think that having a number of prominent imams make statements on the subject would make most Muslim travellers feel more comfortable with the situation.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:56:14pm

re: #89 Firstinla

first in LA ? Latin America?

Daniel Ballard Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:56:18pm

re: #45 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
re: #19 Charles

But the soldiers had ammunition, in the magazine packs, not in the guns. Common for duty in civilian areas where sudden crowd control or evacuation is at least as likely as a gunfight. An old non-troversy maybe?

Excerpt
By Aaron Davis, San Jose Mercury News, Calif. Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News

Oct. 5--Three soldiers, their M-16 rifles and 120 rounds of ammunition.

Beginning today, that military presence -- along with the familiar metal detectors and X-ray machines -- will greet passengers at every security checkpoint leading to planes at San Francisco and Los Angeles international airports.

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:56:38pm

re: #87 SteveC

I have the same joke but in my version it's swimming in the ocean and a shark appears

"I don't have to swim faster than the shark, i just have to swim faster than you!"

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:57:03pm

re: #70 Firstinla

Mandy: I tried bringing up CAIR but IE won't let me open it. I'll keep trying. I've learned a lot from the good folks at LGF and if for no other reason than education, this is the bestest damn blog ever.

Here's a start.

SteveMcG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:57:16pm

re: #95 sattv4u2

Mine was Gale Sayers and Brian Piccolo

Daniel Ballard Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:57:28pm

re: #91 The Sanity Inspector

They'd show that at Sundance? I thought you had to go underground for video like that... :)

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:57:34pm

re: #94 Rightwingconspirator

Heh. I just read that as "magazine racks".

Banana clip behind a twenty dollar "Men's Health Magazine".

100

[deleted] Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:57:43pm

101

Gus Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:57:50pm

re: #91 The Sanity Inspector

Naked passengers being sniffed up by dogs, rats, and bears. There's a Sundance award waiting for the indie film that results from that image.

If we throw in Abdulmutallab we can have regular old Burning Man festival.

102

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:58:49pm

OT: Sorry for the Al Jazeera vid, but this is horrible. WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO

Witch hunts in Kenya

Youtube Video

103

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 2:59:18pm

re: #97 SteveMcG

Mine was Gale Sayers and Brian Piccolo

"I'll always remember when we 1st met. I said Hi, I'm Brian Piccolo, and you know what you said? You said uh huh, just like that, uh huh"
BC

"I loved Brain Piccolo,, and I hope you loved him too"
GS

104

[deleted] Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:00:00pm

105

[deleted] Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:00:24pm

106

Firstinla Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:00:48pm

re: #96 MandyManners

Thanks again. All I was trying to say was I don't care whether your religion likes dogs or not, you have to get sniffed if you want to fly. Sorry if that was unclear. I blame it on newness.

107

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:00:56pm

re: #104 sattv4u2

MMTA!

108

shiplord kirel Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:01:25pm

re: #21 MandyManners

I'm trying to envision a rat on a leash.

Here ya' go.

109

Sheila Broflovski Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:02:30pm

re: #35 ryannon

Good grief, what a story.

Do you archive these things?

If you Google "airline horror stories" you will find a whole bunch of stuff like this.

110

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:03:37pm

re: #68 Thanos

Right. But most homes in the US have effective cheap CO2 and Smoke detectors. If we stop trying to do the perfect search passenger by passenger and look for the most common explosives in the airport air with simple detectors I suspect we would be doing more than that detector program did to ensure safety.

I fear then we would have suicide bombers going off with exotic vs. common explosives.

We could always start a company, make lots of donations to the right congresscritters, get a contract and build something to milspec to get it approved ... whether it worked or not and then make lots of money ...
/
that seems to have been the process for the junk that's now being phased out. Hopefully the next round will get some reliable equipment deployed.

111

wrenchwench Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:03:38pm

re: #108 shiplord kirel

Here ya' go.

I'm afraid you are suffering from SFZ syndrome.

112

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:03:38pm

re: #106 Firstinla

Thanks again. All I was trying to say was I don't care whether your religion likes dogs or not, you have to get sniffed if you want to fly. Sorry if that was unclear. I blame it on newness.

Muslim taxi drivers in America have tried to forbid blind people from their cabs if they are using guide dogs.

113

[deleted] Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:04:32pm

114

sagehen Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:05:13pm

re: #109 Alouette

If you Google "airline horror stories" you will find a whole bunch of stuff like this.

You'll also find cool stuff like this:

Youtube Video

115

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:05:24pm

re: #110 Bobibutu

I fear then we would have suicide bombers going off with exotic vs. common explosives.

We could always start a company, make lots of donations to the right congresscritters, get a contract and build something to milspec to get it approved ... whether it worked or not and then make lots of money ...
/
that seems to have been the process for the junk that's now being phased out. Hopefully the next round will get some reliable equipment deployed.

Yes, and we could use a full gas chromatograph etc...

116

Gus Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:06:12pm

re: #115 Thanos

Yes, and we could use a full gas chromatograph etc...

Or ejections seats.

117

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:06:37pm

re: #115 Thanos

Yes, and we could use a full gas chromatograph etc...

More commonly used after visting a Mexican All You Can eat restaurant!
/

118

SteveMcG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:06:42pm

re: #116 Gus 802

And cupholders.

119

SteveC Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:07:02pm

re: #113 Firstinla

Grew up thinking the Rose Parade for just for my birthday. I was 47 years old when I found out that wasn't true.

Same sinking feeling you get when you learn Santa Claus isn't real.

//Oh, crap! What did I just do?!?!?

120

Randall Gross Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:07:09pm

Stinky's deleting things up thread, I am guessing that too much personal info is being presented, like enough that someone could ID a lizard?

121

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:07:30pm

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmmm. I would still go to the experts. Is there a concept of a dispensation in Islam?

You may own a "guard" dog to protect your property. Still gotta wash up before prayers.
(more so than hands and feet at the mosque)

122

Firstinla Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:08:17pm

re: #119 SteveC

What? Whaaaaaat?

123

Sheila Broflovski Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:08:41pm

re: #114 sagehen

You'll also find cool stuff like this:

[Video]

I love that song! I once had a Gibson J-45 and Air France crushed the fretboard. They paid to repair it, but never sounded the same.

124

SteveC Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:09:03pm

re: #115 Thanos

Yes, and we could use a full gas chromatograph etc...

Run by Horatio Caine

125

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:09:33pm

re: #120 Thanos

Stinky's deleting things up thread, I am guessing that too much personal info is being presented, like enough that someone could ID a lizard?

i'm lucky i can keep up with whats happening HERE, let alone what happened upthread!
/
OT,,, When those station wagons 1st came out with the back seat facing the rear of the car, my freinds dad had one. I was going somewhere with that family and they wanted to know if I wanted to ride back there. i told them 'no thanks, i like to see where i'm going, not where i've been !"

126

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:09:35pm

re: #122 Firstinla

Charles is protecting your identity. He thinks of stuff (because of what he has seen) that we don't. Don't be offended.

127

SteveMcG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:09:52pm

re: #120 Thanos

That was pretty quick trigger.

128

SixDegrees Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:10:09pm

re: #112 MandyManners

Muslim taxi drivers in America have tried to forbid blind people from their cabs if they are using guide dogs.

So far, I believe, without success.

129

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:10:32pm

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Charles is protecting your identity. He thinks of stuff (because of what he has seen) that we don't. Don't be offended.

DUH !!!, the what,, WHAAAT was in response to the No Santa Clause !!!

130

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:11:02pm

re: #129 sattv4u2

Doh!

131

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:11:09pm

re: #119 SteveC

I'm so sorry that your Santa Claus isn't real.

Mine's just fine.

132

Firstinla Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:11:23pm

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Charles is protecting your identity. He thinks of stuff (because of what he has seen) that we don't. Don't be offended.

None taken. Discretion being the better part of valor.

133

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:11:26pm

re: #131 EmmmieG

I'm so sorry that your Santa Claus isn't real.

Mine's just fine.

in bed

134

ryannon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:11:40pm

re: #128 SixDegrees

So far, I believe, without success.

As in the last thread, it all depends how you parameter 'success.'

135

shiplord kirel Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:11:42pm

re: #109 Alouette

If you Google "airline horror stories" you will find a whole bunch of stuff like this.

Back in 1989, the old lady sitting next to me on a Dallas-Lubbock flight managed to woof down 3 mixed drinks in a matter of minutes (the flight itself was only 45 minutes long). She chatted more or less coherently for a minute, then yawned and went quietly to sleep.
I realized that something was wrong and called the flight attendant, who tried to rouse the old lady, then felt for her pulse. After that, the flight attendant fetched the first officer and a doctor who happened to be among the passengers. None of it helped: the old lady was dead as a door-knob. I stayed at the airport for a couple of hours giving statements to the FAA and the coroner. The ruling was cardiac arrest, probably after she lost consciousness.

136

SteveMcG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:11:44pm

I wonder if #119 will get the ax.

137

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:12:43pm

re: #136 SteveMcG

No identifier there.

*sniff* I think that's my fourth deleted comment.

138

Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:13:28pm

re: #135 shiplord kirel

Oh my, what an experience!

139

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:14:17pm

re: #112 MandyManners

Muslim taxi drivers in America have tried to forbid blind people from their cabs if they are using guide dogs.

Any Service Dog, they would. If at an airport I would always have the Taxi coordinator explain to the driver - either he took me and my dog or I would file a formal written complaint with the State AG. I carried the reg sealed in plastic and had them read it. The fines were hefty and loss of the cab license possible. We never missed a ride.

140

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:16:07pm

re: #135 shiplord kirel

Back in 1989, the old lady sitting next to me on a Dallas-Lubbock flight managed to woof down 3 mixed drinks in a matter of minutes (the flight itself was only 45 minutes long). She chatted more or less coherently for a minute, then yawned and went quietly to sleep.
I realized that something was wrong and called the flight attendant, who tried to rouse the old lady, then felt for her pulse. After that, the flight attendant fetched the first officer and a doctor who happened to be among the passengers. None of it helped: the old lady was dead as a door-knob. I stayed at the airport for a couple of hours giving statements to the FAA and the coroner. The ruling was cardiac arrest, probably after she lost consciousness.

That's a lot of liquor in short order at that altitude.

141

ryannon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:16:13pm

re: #135 shiplord kirel

It sounds like a very peaceful way to go.

142

Digital Display Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:16:31pm

Lizards: I am putting together a top 100 headlines we'd like to see in 2010...
I'll post it New Years day.. Contribute now!

Samples submitted so far:
"We're the scum of the universe." - Dark matter and energy conclusively identified as making up 96% of the mass of the universe.

"Higgs boson found at LHC. Mass found to vary with the day of the week."

"Mahmoud Ahmadinejad disappears in bizarre gardening accident. Iran scraps nuclear program."

"Fossilized rabbit found in pre-Cambrian stratum."

"Richard Dawkins named as next Archbishop of Canterbury."

"Valid proof of God's existence found written on discarded newspaper in London Underground."

"Extra-terrestrials address UN - non-aligned nations walk out."

Tiger Woods and the Octomon sighting in a West Side nightclub

143

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:17:37pm

re: #115 Thanos

Yes, and we could use a full gas chromatograph etc...

One of the problems is speed. Got to keep the line moving. The puffers were just to slow even when they worked. Operator training and efficiency was another issue.

144

SteveC Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:17:54pm

re: #141 ryannon

It sounds like a very peaceful way to go.

When I go, I hope I pass like my grandpa, quietly in my sleep. Not screaming at the top of their lungs and trying to grab the steering whell, like his passengers did.

145

shiplord kirel Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:18:15pm

re: #111 wrenchwench

I'm afraid you are suffering from SFZ syndrome.

Oh rats! Should have taken the third picture I googled up (an actual mine-sniffing rat), or maybe this one, which illustrates a helpful article on day-tripping with your rat:

Although rats can be trained to walk on leashes, it's not the same as walking a dog. Never lead your rat around on the leash; instead, let the rat guide you, using the leash to ensure he doesn't go into out of bounds areas. Exercise caution when walking a rat on a leash, as rats have been known to squirm out of them. Remember to keep an eye out for dangers to your rat, such as other animals and people, as well as items he might try to eat, or holes he might try to escape into.
Some rats don't like to walk on leashes because it impedes their movement. The trick is to let him get used to it slowly, doing short leash sessions and offering plenty of treats. One leash I've had success with is the Super Pet Comfort Harness and Stretchy Stroller. You can also make your own harness.

146

SteveMcG Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:19:39pm

re: #143 Bobibutu

Put them trough in bunches. If you get a hit, then send them singly. I still think bad guys could overload the system with false positives, then sneak one through.

147

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:21:16pm

re: #142 HoosierHoops

I got nuthin...

"Peyton Manning backs over fire hydrant at 2am..."

148

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:21:22pm

re: #112 MandyManners

Muslim taxi drivers in America have tried to forbid blind people from their cabs if they are using guide dogs.

Have they succeeded? Just because someone is willing to raise a ruckus does not mean that they can block something from happening.

149

SteveC Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:22:16pm

re: #143 Bobibutu

One of the problems is speed. Got to keep the line moving.

Every time I encounter TSA it's "Step forward, step forward, keep the line moving!" That's not security.

150

The Sanity Inspector Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:22:45pm

re: #135 shiplord kirel

Guess that settled who got the armrest.

151

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:24:25pm

re: #148 SanFranciscoZionist

Have they succeeded? Just because someone is willing to raise a ruckus does not mean that they can block something from happening.

That's not the point. The point is, they tried to run roughshod over the rights of disabled people.

152

Digital Display Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:24:49pm

re: #147 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I got nuthin...

"Peyton Manning backs over fire hydrant at 2am..."

Sarah Palin completes conquest of Florida.. Declares herself Queen of America..

153

Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:24:58pm

That's it. We need the nuns running things.

Going forward all passengers will sit facing forwards with both feet on the floor and hands folded on their tray tables.

NO TALKING!

When the flight has ended, passengers will QUIETLY reposition their tray tables and rise to their feet. Passengers will QUIETLY gather their personal possessions and stand still until the flight attendent signals for the first rows to deplane. Passengers will QUIETLY exit to the center row one after the other and deplane in SINGLE FILE.

There will be NO TALKING until all passengers have deplaned.

154

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:25:42pm

re: #151 MandyManners

That's not the point. The point is, they tried to run roughshod over the rights of disabled people.

Well yes, that's one point. But I thought the discussion was about whether we could make people get sniffed at the airport. Missed a turn somewhere.

155

SixDegrees Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:26:06pm

Here's a place where you will never, ever see PETA protesting - an illegal slaughter farm. Fair warning - not a story for the squeamish.

Here's a case where animals are treated with abject cruelty on a daily basis, by the hundreds and thousands. PETA will do nothing, because it doesn't gain them any useful publicity and doesn't help them indulge their own ego-stroking aggrandizement.

And, in some of these places you might actually get hurt if you're caught.

Both the people who run these farms and the people who run and participate in PETA are worthless sacks of human shit.

156

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:26:43pm

re: #146 SteveMcG

Put them trough in bunches. If you get a hit, then send them singly. I still think bad guys could overload the system with false positives, then sneak one through.

Best solution I've seen ...

[Link: seclists.org...]

From that point forward the highest and best use of each incremental security dollar spent should have been on
intelligence gathering, risk-management analysis and sharing, and on fundamental police work such that terrorists
would never reach an airport, much less board an airplane.

157

MandyManners Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:27:17pm

Gotta' feed the horde.

158

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:28:33pm

re: #149 SteveC

Every time I encounter TSA it's "Step forward, step forward, keep the line moving!" That's not security.

It is all "Security Theater™" ...

159

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:28:44pm

re: #155 SixDegrees

Thanks.

Bunch of fucking evil in this world.

160

Digital Display Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:31:37pm

re: #152 HoosierHoops

Sarah Palin completes conquest of Florida.. Declares herself Queen of America..

Kim II Agrees to print more counterfeit money to help bolster US Economy...
Gas deal rumored to be discussed...

161

Spare O'Lake Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:31:43pm

Would it be wrong to profile a young male non-citizen with a one-way ticket and a Yemen stamp in his passport?

162

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:33:33pm

re: #161 Spare O'Lake

Would it be wrong to profile a young male non-citizen with a one-way ticket and a Yemen stamp in his passport?

apparently not

163

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:34:47pm

re: #160 HoosierHoops

Kim II Agrees to print more counterfeit money to help bolster US Economy...
Gas deal rumored to be discussed...

"Coach keeps promise and stays at school till all his recruits graduate"

164

Digital Display Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:38:41pm

re: #163 sattv4u2

"Coach keeps promise and stays at school till all his recruits graduate"

Cuba returned to America after JFK pictures verified...

165

Bob Dillon Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:38:59pm

re: #161 Spare O'Lake

Would it be wrong to profile a young male non-citizen with a one-way ticket and a Yemen stamp in his passport?

Paid for with cash and possibly NO passport.

Someone(s) at Amsterdam really blew it and our checks did not catch it. The Prez is having a top to bottom review. Much overdue.

166

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:39:44pm

re: #164 HoosierHoops

Cuba returned to America after JFK pictures verified...

And after looking around, America gave it back!

167

SixDegrees Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:42:41pm

re: #159 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks.

Bunch of fucking evil in this world.

When we were vacationing on Washington's Olympic Peninsula, we wound up by chance at some drive-through animal farm. The guidebook claimed this is where Gentle Ben was living out his golden years in retirement from the television industry.

It was ghastly. My wife was in tears as we left.

We never saw Gentle Ben, but there were plenty of other bears, in barb-wire pens with no shade and nowhere to scratch, their claws over twelve inches long and curled back into their palms for lack of trimming so they could no longer walk properly. There was an obvious skin disease rampant, with the bears and other animals there all missing several large patches of fur. Several of the animals had behavioral ticks from years in close confinement. The owners sold loaves of cheap-ass white bread to the tourists, who would toss slices into the enclosures. This seemed to be the only food in evidence, and fights often broke out, even though we arrived late in the day and the stream of cars had obviously been pretty much constant for hours. Flies were so thick you couldn't open the windows, and the stench was worse. Oddly, several dead snags around the place were filled with bald eagles, normally a cheering sight but here all to reminiscent of vultures patiently waiting for the sick and feeble to keel over.

It was absolutely appalling. The best short description of it would be an animal version of Auschwitz. I wrote several letters to everyone I could think of when we got back home, from the state of Washington down to the county and township level, and never received a reply.

If I lived in that part of the country, I would be organizing protests on a regular basis. But you won't see jack about this place at the PETA site, or see a PETA member anywhere nearby. Too far off the beaten path and the glare of publicity they like to bathe in, I guess.

I thought I loathed PETA with all my heart before seeing this, and their absence and apparent indifference to this and other cases of actual animal mistreatment. I loathe them even more now.

168

Digital Display Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:43:18pm

re: #166 sattv4u2

And after looking around, America gave it back!

KSM demands the Cast from Law&Order to rep him in upcoming trial in NY

169

sattv4u2 Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:45:28pm

re: #168 HoosierHoops

KSM demands the Cast from Law&Order to rep him in upcoming trial in NY

better yet ,,, KSM demands this guy [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] rep him in upcoming trial in NY

Image: jackie.jpg

170

Digital Display Mon, Dec 28, 2009 3:51:36pm

re: #169 sattv4u2

better yet ,,, KSM demands this guy [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] rep him in upcoming trial in NY

[Link: www.seinfeldonline.com...]

Senator Pelosi resigns amid allegations of a appearance in a Girls gone wild Video...
/

171

miguelj Mon, Dec 28, 2009 4:40:27pm

This guy was "screened" at Lagos. Was he also screened in Amsterdam, or was he considered to have already passed through Security?

172

Jaerik Mon, Dec 28, 2009 5:01:27pm

To the folks asking for even more security, I ask a simple question: how many hours of hassle would you put up with for greater security before you just wouldn't fly at all?

It's not rhetorical. Everyone has an actual objective number. For me, it's about 2.

It's really easy to decry "something must be done" when you think that something should only happen to other people, but that's not how we do things in this country.

So, what's your number?

173

charles_martel Mon, Dec 28, 2009 5:09:47pm

re: #19 Charles

No, it was worse than that. Those weapons the National Guard were carrying in airports after 9/11 were not loaded. It was totally for show.

Every time I see army in the Port Authority building in NYC (as well as airports), there was a group of two or more soldiers. That prevents a snatch and grab attempt. And if they did grab a soldiers weapon ----- they are not loaded! That's one reason they are not loaded! The other is that no soldier should be in a hurry to open fire with an automatic weapon in a crowded civilian zone. All good and sensible precautions, I say.

174

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Dec 29, 2009 6:52:27am

re: #46 windsagio

A giant arm with a pointing finger comes down...

"The one in the braces, he dun' it."

175

morrisab Tue, Dec 29, 2009 7:57:15am

re: #165 Bobibutu

Paid for with cash and possibly NO passport.

Someone(s) at Amsterdam really blew it and our checks did not catch it. The Prez is having a top to bottom review. Much overdue.

I was thinking about this in the shower this morning. I don't know there's much that the DHS could have done from this side of the pond to catch him in Lagos or Amsterdam, but here's one thing: he had a 2-year visa. I'm assuming that was a student visa of some kind, since tourist visas are not issued for 2 years and he sure didn't have the background for an H1-B. But he wasn't enrolled in a full-time program in the US. That visa should have been revoked if he was NOT in the US and NOT going to school full-time in an accredited program.

In terms of future actions: it would take some database slogging (but not that much - it would be grunt work if someone competent wrote the filters) to go through and revoke the student visas of anyone who left the US more than three months ago (i.e., beginning of the school year) and hasn't returned. (Wasn't that the point of SEVIS? And SEVIS has been in use for over five years, if I'm not mistaken.) If they're legit, they can re-apply when they get back into a full-time program. If they're not legit, that removes their visas and their ability to come back to the US whenever they want - and, possibly, their value as a radicalized "mule" for terrorist organizations.

Spy Mode Auto

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