Hitchens on Our Absurd Ideas of ‘Security’

Opinion • Views: 6,823

Again, Christopher Hitchens cuts through the nonsense: The truth about airplane security measures.

Why do we fail to detect or defeat the guilty, and why do we do so well at collective punishment of the innocent? The answer to the first question is: Because we can’t—or won’t. The answer to the second question is: Because we can. The fault here is not just with our endlessly incompetent security services, who give the benefit of the doubt to people who should have been arrested long ago or at least had their visas and travel rights revoked. It is also with a public opinion that sheepishly bleats to be made to “feel safe.” The demand to satisfy that sad illusion can be met with relative ease if you pay enough people to stand around and stare significantly at the citizens’ toothpaste. My impression as a frequent traveler is that intelligent Americans fail to protest at this inanity in case it is they who attract attention and end up on a no-fly list instead. Perfect.

It was reported over the weekend that in the aftermath of the Detroit fiasco, no official decision was made about whether to raise the designated “threat level” from orange. Orange! Could this possibly be because it would be panicky and ridiculous to change it to red and really, really absurd to lower it to yellow? But isn’t it just as preposterous (and revealing), immediately after a known Muslim extremist has waltzed through every flimsy barrier, to leave it just where it was the day before?

What nobody in authority thinks us grown-up enough to be told is this: We had better get used to being the civilians who are under a relentless and planned assault from the pledged supporters of a wicked theocratic ideology. These people will kill themselves to attack hotels, weddings, buses, subways, cinemas, and trains. They consider Jews, Christians, Hindus, women, homosexuals, and dissident Muslims (to give only the main instances) to be divinely mandated slaughter victims. Our civil aviation is only the most psychologically frightening symbol of a plethora of potential targets.

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221 comments
1 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 9:58:45am

When Hitchens is on a roll, nobody says it better.

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:03:05am

I say we just go to using whatever profiling system El Al uses.

It seems to work.

3 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:04:55am
What nobody in authority thinks us grown-up enough to be told is this: We had better get used to being the civilians who are under a relentless and planned assault from the pledged supporters of a wicked theocratic ideology.

The problem with that is that no one holding power has really been willing to "name the enemy". Neither Bush nor Obama will use terms like "Radical Islam".

4 jaunte  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:06:00am
In my boyhood, there were signs on English buses that declared, in bold letters, "No Spitting." At a tender age, I was able to work out that most people don't need to be told this, while those who do feel a desire to expectorate on public transport will require more discouragement than a mere sign. But I'd be wasting my time pointing this out to our majestic and sleepless protectors, who now boldly propose to prevent airline passengers from getting out of their seats for the last hour of any flight. Abdulmutallab made his bid in the last hour of his flight, after all. Yes, that ought to do it. It's also incredibly, nay, almost diabolically clever of our guardians to let it be known what the precise time limit will be.


Grimly hilarious.

5 Spider Mensch  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:06:04am

the answer in better air travel security lies in lowering the p-c blinders. anyone who has travelled thru Ben Gurion airport in Israel knows..the security force there gets it. they should be the model for air security on the ground. if you got an eye twitch from an extra cup of coffee you'll catch some security force attention. other airports have picked up on the less p-c security measures. on a recent trip i was returning home thru Frankfurt airport...a young man, lets say of swarthy complexion, alone was looking, lets say, a little..confused so to speak...I was waiting for my wife who was seeing of her grandfather on his flight before our departure..at least 45 minutes this young man was there waiting and fidgeting about, checking his bag repeatedly, little things that cought my eye...he was approached by 2 policemen, asked for his documents and such..then asked to come with them to the airport security office..most likely he was quite innocent, but I was glad to see him approached.

6 brookly red  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:06:43am

re: #2 EmmmieG

I say we just go to using whatever profiling system El Al uses.

It seems to work.

yes & no. It could work domestically but in this case the bad guy got on in in another country...

7 Baier  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:07:15am

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

The problem with that is that no one holding power has really been willing to "name the enemy". Neither Bush nor Obama will use terms like "Radical Islam".

I'm equally, if not more afraid of home grown radicals like Timothy McVeigh.

8 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:07:27am

re: #4 jaunte

Grimly hilarious.

It is, isn't it?
Really - Hitchens has a great ability with language.
I like hearing/reading him even when I don't agree with him.

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:07:51am

I see now. El Al succeeds because they

1. Have named the enemy.

2. Don't care if they offend a person in pursuit of safety.

3. Have accepted that flying is inherently risky, and behave that way.

10 albusteve  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:09:45am

re: #1 reine.de.tout

When Hitchens is on a roll, nobody says it better.

yes, and here he is en fuego...it is obvious what the best remedies are and equally obvious why they are not employed...I have little to say about the subject anymore...it just makes me pissy thinking about trading American lives for some notion of idealism...it's sick and immoral imo

11 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:10:25am

re: #9 EmmmieG

I see now. El Al succeeds because they

1. Have named the enemy.

2. Don't care if they offend a person in pursuit of safety.

3. Have accepted that flying is inherently risky, and behave that way.

We are so sensitive to offending individual sensibilities that there are laws preventing it, AND an army of lawyers ready to sue the offenders.

12 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:11:02am

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

The problem with that is that no one holding power has really been willing to "name the enemy". Neither Bush nor Obama will use terms like "Radical Islam".

Remember Bush did say Radical Islam in reference to Al Queda and there was such an uproar here he dropped it and never said it again.

13 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:11:06am

re: #2 EmmmieG

I say we just go to using whatever profiling system El Al uses.

It seems to work.

Unfortunately, it doesn't scale well to the size of the United States. But I agree that we need to broaden our spectrum of security measures beyond the impersonal, unbiased technological solutions we currently favor to the exclusion of all else. The use of a thorough profiling system would certainly be a welcome addition to airport (and other) security systems. And that whole "connect the dots" thing that HSA was supposed to bring about appears to have completely failed, in light of the numerous warning flags this latest jihadi was waving in plain sight that, apparently, fell through the cracks somewhere.

14 brookly red  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:11:31am

re: #11 reine.de.tout

We are so sensitive to offending individual sensibilities that there are laws preventing it, AND an army of lawyers ready to sue the offenders.

AND our enemies know it.

15 eastsider  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:12:09am

part of the problem is our desire to "successfully fight the last war." We're implementing new rules to try and prevent the last attempted terror attack from happening again.

I don't want to give to much credit to the "bad guys," but how hard is it to think of new ways to inflict lots of damage on a group of civilians? The weapons (guns, bombs, grenades) and crowd gathering (trains, planes, airports, stadiums) permutations are endless.

We'll never be able to make the world 100% safe. The problem is that as you strive for that limit of 100% safety, each incremental bit of security exacts a higher and higher cost--both in terms of cash and personal freedoms.

16 albusteve  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:12:38am

re: #14 brookly red

AND our enemies know it.

here's our playbook, this is our strategy...we will play not to lose

17 Baier  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:13:21am

re: #9 EmmmieG

I see now. El Al succeeds because they

1. Have named the enemy.


- Does timothy mcveigh ring a bell?

2. Don't care if they offend a person in pursuit of safety.

-Easy for you to say. I have relatives of Sephardi descent and I can tell you travel is a nightmare already. How many flights have you missed because you have a dark complexion? I have a cousin that goes to the airport 3 hours early because he's missed so many flights.

3. Have accepted that flying is inherently risky, and behave that way.


- Agreed

18 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:14:04am

re: #7 Baier

I'm equally, if not more afraid of home grown radicals like Timothy McVeigh.

This morning on TV there was a list of the arrests of terrorists in this country in the past six months (?) the total was 8. None of them were white militia guys.

19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:15:28am

I've wanted to say something like that... here's my condensed, simplistic version...

Bad shit's gonna happen again, and ain't a damn thing we can do about stopping all of it. We can just hope that perseverance and luck stops most of the bad shit. All we can do is cooperate when asked to, and hope.

That's it.

20 eastsider  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:15:29am

Not sure if its been posted at LGF before, but this is a pretty good analysis by a former police officer on the TSA.

[Link: www.hlswatch.com...]

Not exactly a shining endorsement.

21 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:15:34am

re: #11 reine.de.tout

We are so sensitive to offending individual sensibilities that there are laws preventing it, AND an army of lawyers ready to sue the offenders.

Don't forget CAIR.

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:17:04am

re: #17 Baier

So sorry for his inconvenience. But, it is what it is, and he has learned to deal with it.

23 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:17:32am
What nobody in authority thinks us grown-up enough to be told is this: We had better get used to being the civilians who are under a relentless and planned assault from the pledged supporters of a wicked theocratic ideology. These people will kill themselves to attack hotels, weddings, buses, subways, cinemas, and trains. They consider Jews, Christians, Hindus, women, homosexuals, and dissident Muslims (to give only the main instances) to be divinely mandated slaughter victims. Our civil aviation is only the most psychologically frightening symbol of a plethora of potential targets.

Luckily that hasn't happened very much here.

And when it's done elsewhere, it's usually explained away..

24 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:17:36am

re: #12 blueheron

Remember Bush did say Radical Islam in reference to Al Queda and there was such an uproar here he dropped it and never said it again.

I remember. He should have ignored the uproar then went after the pressure groups that stirred it up.

25 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:18:58am

re: #1 reine.de.tout

When Hitchens is on a roll, nobody says it better.

Agree or disagree, he can always bring the red meat.

26 brookly red  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:19:22am

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

I remember. He should have ignored the uproar then went after the pressure groups that stirred it up.

there are advantages to being on the offensive...

27 eastsider  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:19:41am

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So sorry for his inconvenience. But, it is what it is, and he has learned to deal with it.

Cliche, but, Franklin: "Those who would trade their freedom for their protection..."

In this case some are volunteering that only *other people's* freedoms be traded.

28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:20:42am

re: #27 eastsider

Great point, but as I said, it is what it is.

29 Jadespring  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:20:52am

I really don't see why they don't use dogs more. They seem to rely so much on these million dollar technological wonder machines and technowonder 'sniffers'. The type of chemicals that this guy apparently had on him could have been 'sniffed' out by a trained sniffer dog and handler. Sorry it's just a pet peeve of mine that this 'technology' isn't used more. (pun intended).

30 Girth  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:21:48am

Sen. DeMint is going to be on with Wolf Blitzer this afternoon. Might be interesting to see him justify putting a hold on the nominee for TSA chief after this.

31 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:22:49am

re: #29 Jadespring

I really don't see why they don't use dogs more. They seem to rely so much on these million dollar technological wonder machines and technowonder 'sniffers'. The type of chemicals that this guy apparently had on him could have been 'sniffed' out by a trained sniffer dog and handler. Sorry it's just a pet peeve of mine that this 'technology' isn't used more. (pun intended).

I thought some denominations of Islam find dogs unclean.

32 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:23:53am

re: #29 Jadespring

I really don't see why they don't use dogs more. They seem to rely so much on these million dollar technological wonder machines and technowonder 'sniffers'. The type of chemicals that this guy apparently had on him could have been 'sniffed' out by a trained sniffer dog and handler. Sorry it's just a pet peeve of mine that this 'technology' isn't used more. (pun intended).

Dogs can be seen as threatening. Perhaps though, they could use breeds like Labrador Retrievers that don't scare people.

33 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:24:10am

re: #17 Baier

- Does timothy mcveigh ring a bell?


Well, let's see.

9-11.
USS Cole.
Achillle Lauro.
La Belle Disco.
Lockerbie.
Bali.
Mumbai.
Athens Airport.
Marine barracks in Beirut.
Ft. Hood.
Arkansas recruiting station.
Madrid.

I know I'm forgetting a bunch. Feel free to add more, Lizards.

34 albusteve  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:24:19am

re: #31 Cannadian Club Akbar

I thought some denominations of Islam find dogs unclean.

they do, so what?...that's their problem

35 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:24:47am

Pay no attention to the young Muslim man with no luggage and no passport, who just paid cash for a one-way ticket!

Here's an elderly, diabetic rabbi who just stepped off a flight from Israel. Let's take apart his CPAP machine.*

*This just happened to Zedushka.

36 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:25:11am

re: #34 albusteve

they do, so what?...that's their problem

That is when CAIR would start the lawsuits. Just sayin'.

37 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:25:22am

I don't know how El Al knows, but they know. Maybe from the time you purchase your ticket. Maybe from the interviewing processes. Maybe because they have disguised security everywhere. All of the above? And then some, but they haven't had a hijacking in 60 years so they're doing something right.

38 albusteve  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:25:37am

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Dogs can be seen as threatening. Perhaps though, they could use breeds like Labrador Retrievers that don't scare people.

I'd use Roman fighting Mastiffs...with spiked collars

39 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:25:44am

re: #33 MandyManners

1993 WTC.

40 brookly red  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:25:48am

re: #29 Jadespring

I really don't see why they don't use dogs more. They seem to rely so much on these million dollar technological wonder machines and technowonder 'sniffers'. The type of chemicals that this guy apparently had on him could have been 'sniffed' out by a trained sniffer dog and handler. Sorry it's just a pet peeve of mine that this 'technology' isn't used more. (pun intended).

I have a lot of faith in dogs too, and was pleased to see a lot of them in and around Penn Station for the holiday season.

41 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:26:01am

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Dogs can be seen as threatening. Perhaps though, they could use breeds like Labrador Retrievers that don't scare people.

Air travel is not a right. It's barely a privilege. You don't like dogs? Take a train.

42 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:26:06am

re: #30 Girth

Sen. DeMint is going to be on with Wolf Blitzer this afternoon. Might be interesting to see him justify putting a hold on the nominee for TSA chief after this.

Any word when Sen. Dodd will be on to justify cutting the TSA's funding before this?

43 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:26:20am

re: #31 Cannadian Club Akbar

I thought some denominations of Islam find dogs unclean.

In a word: tough.

Also, there doesn't seem to be any such actual doctrine in Islam. Mo didn't like dogs, Muslims wanna be like Mo, so they don't like dogs, either. But there's no explicit edict to stay away from dogs.

And, as was pointed out yesterday, there are alternatives. Bears. Giant rats of some kind. Probably others.

Or, even simpler: if you have an aversion to dogs, step this way for a more up close and personal inspection by that person with the latex gloves...

44 albusteve  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:26:24am

re: #36 Cannadian Club Akbar

That is when CAIR would start the lawsuits. Just sayin'.

and when they lose, they should foot the bill

45 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:26:24am

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Dogs can be seen as threatening. Perhaps though, they could use breeds like Labrador Retrievers that don't scare people.

They have these cute little mutt dogs that sniff you for drugs when flying out of the Honolulu airport...

46 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:26:40am

re: #35 Alouette

Pay no attention to the young Muslim man with no luggage and no passport, who just paid cash for a one-way ticket!

Here's an elderly, diabetic rabbi who just stepped off a flight from Israel. Let's take apart his CPAP machine.*

*This just happened to Zedushka.

Ah, the Juice and their evil apnea!

47 brookly red  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:26:49am

re: #38 albusteve

I'd use Roman fighting Mastiffs...with spiked collars

/pigs make for good sniffers too.

48 webevintage  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:27:09am

re: #29 Jadespring

I really don't see why they don't use dogs more.


My family decided last night that they would prefer the explosives sniffing rats at the airport.

49 Baier  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:27:19am

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So sorry for his inconvenience. But, it is what it is, and he has learned to deal with it.

So, brown people have to be inconvenienced so white people don't have to be afraid?

50 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:27:19am

re: #42 Ben Hur

Any word when Sen. Dodd will be on to justify cutting the TSA's funding before this?

Huh?

51 Jadespring  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:27:26am

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Dogs can be seen as threatening. Perhaps though, they could use breeds like Labrador Retrievers that don't scare people.

No need to use big scary looking dogs. I've seen beagles trained for this sort of work.

52 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:27:37am

re: #44 albusteve

and when they lose, they should foot the bill

And, OPEN UP THEIR BOOKS!

53 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:28:15am

re: #9 EmmmieG

I see now. El Al succeeds because they

1. Have named the enemy.

2. Don't care if they offend a person in pursuit of safety.

3. Have accepted that flying is inherently risky, and behave that way.

re: #27 eastsider

Cliche, but, Franklin: "Those who would trade their freedom for their protection..."

In this case some are volunteering that only *other people's* freedoms be traded.


OK great then they can stop searching through little old ladies underwear. ////

54 The Shadow Do  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:28:24am

re: #31 Cannadian Club Akbar

I thought some denominations of Islam find dogs unclean.

If they refuse to pass the sniffer dog, they can opt for the side room strip down.

I have a metal hip which means that I can opt for a full frisking or the side room treatment. So be it. I am sick of being sensitive. This is obviously life and death stuff, screw sensitivities.

55 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:28:43am

re: #50 MandyManners

Huh?

Sen. Dodd, D-Conn., slashed aviation security funding for pet constituency

Grain of salt alert: I don't know who owns the Washington Examiner, or who may be paying them off.

56 sagehen  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:28:54am

re: #18 blueheron

This morning on TV there was a list of the arrests of terrorists in this country in the past six months (?) the total was 8. None of them were white militia guys.

That just means somebody's being deliberately fuzzy in their definition of terrorist.

Scott Roeder was within the past six months; so was the guy with several handguns arrested just outside Obama's Minneapolis speech, and guy with a handgun in his glove compartment caught sneaking around inside a New Hampshire place where Obama was due to be later that day.

57 sandbox  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:29:04am

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

We agree. It's weird, naming the enemy remains the the biggest problem we have in prosecuting the war. How can we devise strategies if the public perceives that their elected officials are confused about who we are fighting (Radical Islam)?

Name the Enemy, Win the War!

58 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:29:09am

re: #33 MandyManners

The attack on our embassy in Nairobi.

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:29:25am

re: #49 Baier

No. I should rephrase? "It is what it is until it changes."

60 Girth  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:29:29am

re: #42 Ben Hur

Any word when Sen. Dodd will be on to justify cutting the TSA's funding before this?

I'd like to see that too.

61 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:29:56am

re: #54 The Shadow Do

If they refuse to pass the sniffer dog, they can opt for the side room strip down.

I have a metal hip which means that I can opt for a full frisking or the side room treatment. So be it. I am sick of being sensitive. This is obviously life and death stuff, screw sensitivities.


The solution I was looking for.

62 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:30:16am

re: #17 Baier

I wish this was not so. My Bahai (Iranian) cousin-in-law gets searched every single time, too.

And, like you, his people have suffered persecution for their religion. They're really a very peaceful people.

(However, El Al also uses profiling techniques that have nothing to do with skin color. I recall reading that they also profile unusual behaviors, and that has saved lives.)

63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:30:28am

re: #49 Baier

I'm afraid I sounded insensitive to his plight. I did not mean to. Was stating the obvious.

64 Jadespring  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:30:31am

re: #43 SixDegrees

In a word: tough.

Also, there doesn't seem to be any such actual doctrine in Islam. Mo didn't like dogs, Muslims wanna be like Mo, so they don't like dogs, either. But there's no explicit edict to stay away from dogs.

And, as was pointed out yesterday, there are alternatives. Bears. Giant rats of some kind. Probably others.

Or, even simpler: if you have an aversion to dogs, step this way for a more up close and personal inspection by that person with the latex gloves...

The dogs don't even need to touch people. A good trained dog will just stop and/or sit by the person or piece of luggage when they sniff out something.

65 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:31:12am

re: #33 MandyManners

All those hijackings.

66 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:31:20am

Wasn't someone saying we can train bears to sniff out drugs?

If a muslims objects, they can have the bear, instead.

I'll take Lassie.

67 Truth Stick  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:31:48am

We need to train an army of Mini Dachshund's to be bomb sniffers.....who could be afraid of one of these little fellows?

68 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:31:54am

re: #65 MandyManners

All those hijackings.

Remember the good old days when planes would be forceably diverted to Havana?

69 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:32:18am

re: #54 The Shadow Do

If they refuse to pass the sniffer dog, they can opt for the side room strip down.

I have a metal hip which means that I can opt for a full frisking or the side room treatment. So be it. I am sick of being sensitive. This is obviously life and death stuff, screw sensitivities.

That's the same choice my parents have to face. As for me, I've simply decided to give up air travel. I'll take a bus or a train instead (I've got no interest in international travel).

70 The Shadow Do  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:32:28am

re: #56 sagehen

That just means somebody's being deliberately fuzzy in their definition of terrorist.

Scott Roeder was within the past six months; so was the guy with several handguns arrested just outside Obama's Minneapolis speech, and guy with a handgun in his glove compartment caught sneaking around inside a New Hampshire place where Obama was due to be later that day.

Not targeting the general populace. Yes, there is a distinction.

71 Baier  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:33:07am

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No. I should rephrase? "It is what it is until it changes."

Personally, I like the idea of a full body scan, no matter what you look like. The reason the machines are not used now is because of privacy concerns.

72 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:33:34am

re: #62 EmmmieG

I wish this was not so. My Bahai (Iranian) cousin-in-law gets searched every single time, too.

And, like you, his people have suffered persecution for their religion. They're really a very peaceful people.

(However, El Al also uses profiling techniques that have nothing to do with skin color. I recall reading that they also profile unusual behaviors, and that has saved lives.)

Absolutely.

One famous story is the pregnant Irish woman who was trying to board an El Al flight to Israel.

Someone thought it strange that she was traveling alone with big bags, questioned her, and she said she was flying to meet her Palestinian husband.

They found a bomb in one of her bags that her husband had planted without her knowledge.

I gather they are divorced.

Or maybe not.

73 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:33:54am

Another video from the Ashura protests....
Iran's police truck run over a protester in Ashura

74 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:34:16am

re: #72 Ben Hur

Absolutely.

One famous story is the pregnant Irish woman who was trying to board an El Al flight to Israel.

Someone thought it strange that she was traveling alone with big bags, questioned her, and she said she was flying to meet her Palestinian husband.

They found a bomb in one of her bags that her husband had planted without her knowledge.

I gather they are divorced.

Or maybe not.

Pure evil.

75 Baier  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:34:49am

re: #63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm afraid I sounded insensitive to his plight. I did not mean to. Was stating the obvious.

No worries. No one plays softball around here, windows are bound to get broken. I can take it:)

76 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:34:55am

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Another video from the Ashura protests...
Iran's police truck run over a protester in Ashura


[Video]

I saw that earlier this morning.
They run over him, then back up and run over him again.
Just awful.

77 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:34:57am

re: #71 Baier

Personally, I like the idea of a full body scan, no matter what you look like. The reason the machines are not used now is because of privacy concerns.

Just wait till Megan Fox walks through the full body scan.. It will be on the Internet in 3 minutes...

78 The Shadow Do  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:35:14am

re: #71 Baier

Personally, I like the idea of a full body scan, no matter what you look like. The reason the machines are not used now is because of privacy concerns.

Which will not detect PETN stuffed up your butt by the way.

79 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:35:24am

And while everyone here is continuing to focus on air safety, bus and rail safety is just as imperiled by the same lack of security. In fact, bus and rail safety is even worse since no one here in the US is focusing on it seriously. There have been multiple murderous attacks overseas against rail systems, and yet security to get on Amtrak or commuter rail is as easy as just boarding the trains. Buses are similarly exposed.

We still do not take security seriously; we have been lucky that the terrorists' attacks against aircraft have been infrequent and unsuccessful since 9/11. That luck may run out and/or al Qaeda may again change tactics to go after other targets that provide a high body count.

When it comes down to it, passengers have to rely on themselves as a last line of defense against terrorists, and have to hope that security measures prevent those kinds of attacks beyond their reach (explosives in checked luggage, etc.)

80 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:35:30am

re: #21 MandyManners

Don't forget CAIR.

During lunch I saw Fox News showing a clip of them and a Nigerian-American group holding a press conference denouncing terrorism andinthenextbreath denouncing profiling.

81 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:35:39am

re: #33 MandyManners

Attacks at the airports in Rome and Vienna around Christmas.

82 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:35:51am

re: #77 HoosierHoops

Just wait till Megan Fox walks through the full body scan.. It will be on the Internet in 3 minutes...

As will you shortly after.:)

83 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:36:01am

Every single point in that article was spot on.

It is of course necessary to have security on airlines and in public places. However, it is stupid to think that all security is fool proof, or that whatever outlandish measures taken to give an ilusion of "doing something" will work.

There are only two ways to defeat the jihadis and we must pursue them both with a zeal greater than the jihadis themselves.

The first way to do this is to attempt to change the culture that these people come from. The single most effective means to so this is to empower women and promote scientific education. Societies with empowered women and the sexual liberation that come with it remove one of the major pillars of control that religious fanatics can have. Science does not have to a - priori destroy faith. However, science with it's emphasis on fact and critical thinking is poison to fanaticism.

It should be obvious that jihadis - and for that matter the Christian right - hate these two things so much precisely because they will erode fanaticism by making it silly.

Way one though will not come easily or quickly. There is no quick fix here and it is flaw of America to assume that we can "just fix this" in the space of a year or even ten. Dedicated effort over generations is needed.

The second way to deal with jihadis is to be real about them. On the one hand there is not a jihadi around every corner or under your bed. But if we do know where they are, we should not be shy about simply killing them - and perhaps more importantly, killing the financiers and foreign officials who support them. While the jihadi may not be afraid to die, members of the middle eastern aristocracy certainly are.

What we should not do is become little scared sheep. That of course ironically, but missed by so many, is giving the terrorists a win.

84 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:36:17am

re: #80 The Sanity Inspector

During lunch I saw Fox News showing a clip of them and a Nigerian-American group holding a press conference denouncing terrorism andinthenextbreath denouncing profiling.

They want it both ways.

85 Ericus58  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:36:56am

re: #73 Killgore Trout

I expect elements of their army to become involved at some point, this will be civil war.

86 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:37:06am

re: #78 The Shadow Do

Which will not detect PETN stuffed up your butt by the way.

Silver lining:

So I COULD HAVE gotten that weed out of Amsterdam by putting it in my underwear!

87 sffilk  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:37:17am

re: #35 Alouette

Pay no attention to the young Muslim man with no luggage and no passport, who just paid cash for a one-way ticket!

Here's an elderly, diabetic rabbi who just stepped off a flight from Israel. Let's take apart his CPAP machine.*

*This just happened to Zedushka.

Zedushka? I don't recognize this. I'm sorry to hear that it happened, though.

88 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:37:22am

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

As ever, Ludwig, your analysis is first-rate. Sadly, I've got go to work now. BBT

89 Ericus58  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:37:42am

re: #77 HoosierHoops

Just wait till Megan Fox walks through the full body scan.. It will be on the Internet in 3 minutes...

Link Please? ;)

90 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:37:58am

re: #71 Baier

Personally, I like the idea of a full body scan, no matter what you look like. The reason the machines are not used now is because of privacy concerns.

Seems to me, though, they don't have to use them on everyone. Just those they find suspicious. Like people traveling from multiple countries with a one way ticket and no immigration papers....

91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:37:59am

re: #77 HoosierHoops

You think so? These pictures are not in the least interesting. Probably better for gauging a man's junk than a woman's treasure.

And I could honestly care less about a man's junk.

92 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:38:08am

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

As ever, Ludwig, your analysis is first-rate. Sadly, I've got go to work now. BBT

Thanks buddy.

93 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:38:12am

re: #33 MandyManners

The attack on the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.

94 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:38:22am

re: #79 lawhawk

And while everyone here is continuing to focus on air safety, bus and rail safety is just as imperiled by the same lack of security. In fact, bus and rail safety is even worse since no one here in the US is focusing on it seriously. There have been multiple murderous attacks overseas against rail systems, and yet security to get on Amtrak or commuter rail is as easy as just boarding the trains. Buses are similarly exposed.

We still do not take security seriously; we have been lucky that the terrorists' attacks against aircraft have been infrequent and unsuccessful since 9/11. That luck may run out and/or al Qaeda may again change tactics to go after other targets that provide a high body count.

When it comes down to it, passengers have to rely on themselves as a last line of defense against terrorists, and have to hope that security measures prevent those kinds of attacks beyond their reach (explosives in checked luggage, etc.)

That's ironic, because a friend shared a NYC-DC train with Hitchens not two weeks ago.

No sh*t.

95 Baier  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:38:57am

re: #78 The Shadow Do

Which will not detect PETN stuffed up your butt by the way.

That's what Sen. Craig hangs out at airports for.

96 The Shadow Do  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:39:41am

re: #86 Ben Hur

Silver lining:

So I COULD HAVE gotten that weed out of Amsterdam by putting it in my underwear!

What! You didn't bring my weed!

97 The Shadow Do  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:40:10am

re: #95 Baier

That's what Sen. Craig hangs out at airports for.

Oooooooh!

98 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:40:12am

re: #93 MandyManners

The attack on the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.

1000s of attacks in Israel.

99 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:40:19am

re: #37 marjoriemoon

I don't know how El Al knows, but they know. Maybe from the time you purchase your ticket. Maybe from the interviewing processes. Maybe because they have disguised security everywhere. All of the above? And then some, but they haven't had a hijacking in 60 years so they're doing something right.

The security perimeter at El Al starts well outside the airport, and there are successive layers that every passenger passes through on the way to their plane. By the time you enter the lobby, you've already been partially categorized, the other passengers in the car you arrived in have been noted, the car's underbody has been imaged, and you are about to embark on a journey through a series of psychological evaluations and challenges designed to provoke predictable responses depending on what your intent may be.

I'm gonna point something out here that perhaps I shouldn't - Charles, feel free to delete this if you feel it crosses a line. But the way our airport security currently works is a nightmare, and creates a juicy, completely vulnerable target for terrorists whose intent is to cripple the nation's air transport system, and it does this precisely because it doesn't pursue a layered approach to security, but rather establishes a single physical checkpoint where security theater plays itself out. And this is precisely the security checkpoint, which on a typical weekday is often an enormous clusterfuck where thousands of people are tightly packed as they pass through a narrow chokepoint, fiddle with their shoes, get into arguments over shampoo bottles and otherwise clot up into a huge knot of humanity, none of whom have been through any sort of security scrutiny yet and any of whom might be about to detonate a bomb, or release a cloud of toxic chemicals, or simply pull guns out of their bags and open fire.

The result would be catastrophic to air transport for weeks, possibly months, possibly forever as officials tried to figure out new and creative ways to inconvenience travelers. And our own policies have make the pickings easy, in this case. I'm actually stunned that this hasn't been attempted yet, and won't be surprised when it almost inevitably happens.

Back to Flaming Underwear Guy: none of these measures should have been necessary in his case. Simple, day to day intelligence measures should have denied him a visa in the first place. This is similar to the way the Israeli system works - the outermost perimeter is as wide as the whole planet, and when someone gets placed on a no-fly list in Britain - as this guy was - then our foreign services ought to be aware of it, so when they guy's dad calls in - on several occasions - and mentions that sonny boy has gone rogue and poses a threat, his visa can be deactivated at once. Not when he arrives at the airport, buys a one-way ticket with cash and doesn't even have a passport.

100 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:40:42am

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

Personally, I'm not looking for fool proof (although El Al is). But when you hear about so many things overlooked, especially with the NW flight, it's clear we're not doing all we can do.

101 Ericus58  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:40:51am

re: #93 MandyManners

The attack on the Seattle Jewish offices.

102 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:40:52am

re: #93 MandyManners

The attack on the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.

Oh, and that was Iran.

They're no threat.

103 EastSider  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:41:24am

re: #79 lawhawk

And while everyone here is continuing to focus on air safety, bus and rail safety is just as imperiled by the same lack of security. In fact, bus and rail safety is even worse since no one here in the US is focusing on it seriously. There have been multiple murderous attacks overseas against rail systems, and yet security to get on Amtrak or commuter rail is as easy as just boarding the trains. Buses are similarly exposed.

We still do not take security seriously; we have been lucky that the terrorists' attacks against aircraft have been infrequent and unsuccessful since 9/11. That luck may run out and/or al Qaeda may again change tactics to go after other targets that provide a high body count.

When it comes down to it, passengers have to rely on themselves as a last line of defense against terrorists, and have to hope that security measures prevent those kinds of attacks beyond their reach (explosives in checked luggage, etc.)

But where does it stop? We can't even secure airlines successfully, which is arguably the most "closed" system out there.

Its impossible to ensure 100% safety. The harder you try, the more it costs, and the more people look to pass the blame when something does go wrong.

104 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:41:33am

re: #98 Ben Hur

1000s of attacks in Israel.

Goes without saying, sadly.

105 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:41:46am

re: #29 Jadespring

I really don't see why they don't use dogs more. They seem to rely so much on these million dollar technological wonder machines and technowonder 'sniffers'. The type of chemicals that this guy apparently had on him could have been 'sniffed' out by a trained sniffer dog and handler. Sorry it's just a pet peeve of mine that this 'technology' isn't used more. (pun intended).

I had this thought about being goosed by a dog in the boarding line :)) lol

106 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:41:53am

re: #101 Ericus58

The attack on the Seattle Jewish offices.

He was convicted recently.

107 The Shadow Do  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:42:11am

re: #90 marjoriemoon

Seems to me, though, they don't have to use them on everyone. Just those they find suspicious. Like people traveling from multiple countries with a one way ticket and no immigration papers...

As I understand it, the images are remotely viewed and the viewer is completely divorced from seeing the individual. So I say use it, on everyone. Don't like it, don't fly.

108 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:42:22am

re: #102 Ben Hur

Oh, and that was Iran.

They're no threat.

None at all. Ever. Just gotta' get them to unclinch their fists.

109 zeir  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:42:28am

So a few years ago, my sister-in-law was staying with us in Jerusalem. He was a gentile, not that there is anything wrong with that. So, the women in my wife's family being as cold as they are, she put him on a bus to the airport when he had to fly back to the US, and didn't go with him. Mistake. Security detained him, because what girlfriend wouldn't see her boyfriend off (answer: the cold women of my wife's family)? And a Boston Cathlic, to boot? He missed his flight & had to fly the next day.

That's the kind of thing you have to do. That, and get the FBI profilers off their asses, after all, his parents red-flagged him! Sacrifice some privacy and ratchet up the profiling (yes!) and the majority can fly safer & faster. If a segment of your ethnic group is at war with the US, you have a burden to bear in troubled times. That's how it went when the Irgun & Stern Gang were fighting the British. British Jews were inconvenienced? So be it.

110 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:43:14am

re: #91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You think so? These pictures are not in the least interesting. Probably better for gauging a man's junk than a woman's treasure.

And I could honestly care less about a man's junk.

Your right..Nobody cares about seeing Megan Fox naked...
If I had to work TSA with full body scanners it would be at LAX...
/No every thing is fine Ms. Aniston..Just step into the Machine.. Angela had no issues..Why do you?
/

111 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:43:21am

re: #99 SixDegrees

Most excellent post.

112 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:44:53am

re: #110 HoosierHoops

Your right..Nobody cares about seeing Megan Fox naked...
If I had to work TSA with full body scanners it would be at LAX...
/No every thing is fine Ms. Aniston..Just step into the Machine.. Angela had no issues..Why do you?
/

Do you suppose silicon would scan differently?

Just wondering.

113 albusteve  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:44:55am

re: #103 EastSider

But where does it stop? We can't even secure airlines successfully, which is arguably the most "closed" system out there.

Its impossible to ensure 100% safety. The harder you try, the more it costs, and the more people look to pass the blame when something does go wrong.

you sure bring on a negative vibe....have you been reading these posts, the US is definately NOT doing all it can...who cares about the cost?, what's that got to do with it...nobody cares about the cost of their cars and toys and fat lifestyle

114 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:45:14am

re: #35 Alouette

Pay no attention to the young Muslim man with no luggage and no passport, who just paid cash for a one-way ticket!

Here's an elderly, diabetic rabbi who just stepped off a flight from Israel. Let's take apart his CPAP machine.*

*This just happened to Zedushka.


Yes but you see he wouldn't kick up a fuss because he is exhausted already.

115 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:45:14am

re: #79 lawhawk

And while everyone here is continuing to focus on air safety, bus and rail safety is just as imperiled by the same lack of security. In fact, bus and rail safety is even worse since no one here in the US is focusing on it seriously. There have been multiple murderous attacks overseas against rail systems, and yet security to get on Amtrak or commuter rail is as easy as just boarding the trains. Buses are similarly exposed.

We still do not take security seriously; we have been lucky that the terrorists' attacks against aircraft have been infrequent and unsuccessful since 9/11. That luck may run out and/or al Qaeda may again change tactics to go after other targets that provide a high body count.

When it comes down to it, passengers have to rely on themselves as a last line of defense against terrorists, and have to hope that security measures prevent those kinds of attacks beyond their reach (explosives in checked luggage, etc.)

Trains.


116 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:45:39am

This is the solution:

But one will always get through.

2 WEEKS! 2 WEEKS!

117 Ericus58  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:45:39am

re: #110 HoosierHoops

Your right..Nobody cares about seeing Megan Fox naked...
If I had to work TSA with full body scanners it would be at LAX...
/No every thing is fine Ms. Aniston..Just step into the Machine.. Angela had no issues..Why do you?
/

.... and that lead to a close coffee projection lol

118 albusteve  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:45:55am

re: #107 The Shadow Do

As I understand it, the images are remotely viewed and the viewer is completely divorced from seeing the individual. So I say use it, on everyone. Don't like it, don't fly.

and the pics are instantly deleted

119 Racer X  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:46:14am

Profiling does not mean you tag the brown people. That accusation is ridiculous. El Al is successful because they take a good hard look at those who raise suspicion. They ignore the little old ladies. They go with the odds.

120 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:46:54am

re: #37 marjoriemoon

I don't know how El Al knows, but they know. Maybe from the time you purchase your ticket. Maybe from the interviewing processes. Maybe because they have disguised security everywhere. All of the above? And then some, but they haven't had a hijacking in 60 years so they're doing something right.


They quite frankly scare the hell outta me which is precisely what they want to do.

121 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:47:03am

re: #107 The Shadow Do

As I understand it, the images are remotely viewed and the viewer is completely divorced from seeing the individual. So I say use it, on everyone. Don't like it, don't fly.

I do agree. It doesn't offend me, but if people find it objectionable, I can see using it on selected folks. Someone posted a pic the other day of a see-through xray from the UK. Here...

Image: airport-trials-naked-x-ray-machine--455870.jpg

122 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:47:44am

re: #99 SixDegrees

All it would take would be an attack in airports in Chicago or Denver to really fuck up travel for a few days.

123 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:47:46am

re: #38 albusteve

I'd use Roman fighting Mastiffs...with spiked collars


Well YOU would! ///

124 zeir  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:48:11am

re: #120 blueheron

They don't scare me, they are on my side.

125 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:48:15am

My closest friend is a British gentile (NTTAWWT) , and travels to Israel more than I do (he discovered Tel Aviv at my wedding).

He gets stopped everytime.

It annoys him, of course, but understands that Israel has a prob with the ISN.

126 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:48:20am

re: #112 EmmmieG

Do you suppose silicon would scan differently?

Just wondering.

Yes, it does.

127 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:48:32am

re: #39 MandyManners

1993 WTC.


Sirhan Sirhan

128 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:48:37am

re: #39 MandyManners

1993 WTC.

Which pointed up the futility of treating Islamic terrorism solely as a criminal matter.

129 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:48:40am

re: #121 marjoriemoon

Given the anatomy of the average American, I would hope there would be a premium for having to sit and look at us naked all day.

Couldn't be that fun.

130 Spider Mensch  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:48:54am

re: #99 SixDegrees

The security perimeter at El Al starts well outside the airport, and there are successive layers that every passenger passes through on the way to their plane. By the time you enter the lobby, you've already been partially categorized, the other passengers in the car you arrived in have been noted, the car's underbody has been imaged, and you are about to embark on a journey through a series of psychological evaluations and challenges designed to provoke predictable responses depending on what your intent may be.

I'm gonna point something out here that perhaps I shouldn't - Charles, feel free to delete this if you feel it crosses a line. But the way our airport security currently works is a nightmare, and creates a juicy, completely vulnerable target for terrorists whose intent is to cripple the nation's air transport system, and it does this precisely because it doesn't pursue a layered approach to security, but rather establishes a single physical checkpoint where security theater plays itself out. And this is precisely the security checkpoint, which on a typical weekday is often an enormous clusterfuck where thousands of people are tightly packed as they pass through a narrow chokepoint, fiddle with their shoes, get into arguments over shampoo bottles and otherwise clot up into a huge knot of humanity, none of whom have been through any sort of security scrutiny yet and any of whom might be about to detonate a bomb, or release a cloud of toxic chemicals, or simply pull guns out of their bags and open fire.

The result would be catastrophic to air transport for weeks, possibly months, possibly forever as officials tried to figure out new and creative ways to inconvenience travelers. And our own policies have make the pickings easy, in this case. I'm actually stunned that this hasn't been attempted yet, and won't be surprised when it almost inevitably happens.

Back to Flaming Underwear Guy: none of these measures should have been necessary in his case. Simple, day to day intelligence measures should have denied him a visa in the first place. This is similar to the way the Israeli system works - the outermost perimeter is as wide as the whole planet, and when someone gets placed on a no-fly list in Britain - as this guy was - then our foreign services ought to be aware of it, so when they guy's dad calls in - on several occasions - and mentions that sonny boy has gone rogue and poses a threat, his visa can be deactivated at once. Not when he arrives at the airport, buys a one-way ticket with cash and doesn't even have a passport.

Delete you? can I have your permission to copy and paste? I'd like to send this to some people at the PAPD of NY/NJ (cover the airports in the NYC area)

131 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:48:55am

re: #125 Ben Hur

My closest friend is a British gentile (NTTAWWT) , and travels to Israel more than I do (he discovered Tel Aviv at my wedding).

He gets stopped everytime.

It annoys him, of course, but understands that Israel has a prob with the ISN.

St. Pancake!

132 The Shadow Do  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:49:13am

re: #121 marjoriemoon

I do agree. It doesn't offend me, but if people find it objectionable, I can see using it on selected folks. Someone posted a pic the other day of a see-through xray from the UK. Here...

[Link: www.inthenews.co.uk...]

Damn, I did not need to see that! I'm with Steve, erase these at once!

133 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:49:29am

re: #121 marjoriemoon

I do agree. It doesn't offend me, but if people find it objectionable, I can see using it on selected folks. Someone posted a pic the other day of a see-through xray from the UK. Here...

[Link: www.inthenews.co.uk...]

Not exactly attractive.

134 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:49:52am

re: #111 marjoriemoon

Most excellent post.

Thanks.

Note that El Al-style security doesn't scale well to the size of the United States. But there are aspects of it that could be adopted with good effect.

135 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:49:54am

re: #112 EmmmieG

Do you suppose silicon would scan differently?

Just wondering.

I'm looking for Gov't Stimulus money to do a study of this very issue...

136 avanti  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:50:33am

re: #119 Racer X

Profiling does not mean you tag the brown people. That accusation is ridiculous. El Al is successful because they take a good hard look at those who raise suspicion. They ignore the little old ladies. They go with the odds.

A Israeli security agent said it best. "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims.

137 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:50:43am

re: #127 blueheron

Sirhan Sirhan

Wasn't he a lone actor?

138 Jadespring  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:51:20am

re: #78 The Shadow Do

Which will not detect PETN stuffed up your butt by the way.

No, but a dog could very well detect it. :) Some of these sniffer dogs are so good that they will detect the most minute traces of bits of stuff just from handling it or in the case of things like weed being in a place where the stuff was smoked. I had roommates once that were dinged by a dog when there luggage was sniffed. They had no weed on them at the time but the they had smoked in the car on the way to the airport.

139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:51:26am

I have found it a practice not to publicly describe scenarios in which the United States might be vulnerable to an attack.

140 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:51:38am
141 Slap  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:52:03am

re: #120 blueheron

Completely agree. I spent a couple years in Germany in the '80s, and my initial gut response to the sight of security wielding Uzis in German airports was startled, then comforted. I've always felt that we've coddled ourselves in our airports for far too long, anyway. I have no problem with being very clear -- "If you choose to fuck with us, you'd best be prepared to die right now." Until 9-11, I suspect that even many very conservative folks would have bristled at the idea of highly visible, heavily armed security in our airports.

142 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:52:08am

re: #41 marjoriemoon

Air travel is not a right. It's barely a privilege. You don't like dogs? Take a train.

Not just dogs. I am afraid of some breeds of dogs. Too many WW2 films when I was a kid maybe or maybe it was the neighbors Rotweillers who would have eaten me if they could get at me.

143 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:52:30am

re: #128 The Sanity Inspector

Which pointed up the futility of treating Islamic terrorism solely as a criminal matter.

Got Lynne Stewart disbarred.

144 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:53:44am

re: #140 Killgore Trout

The shark was not cute. Not even close.

145 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:53:52am

What about those bomb residue detectors - not the ones with the pad; I used those in the army, but the ones you walk through and you get bl.......the ones that you walk through and air blows on you?

They have one in the San Juan airport (only in one security lane) for some reason.

Have those been deemed in-effective?

146 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:53:56am

re: #72 Ben Hur

Absolutely.

One famous story is the pregnant Irish woman who was trying to board an El Al flight to Israel.

Someone thought it strange that she was traveling alone with big bags, questioned her, and she said she was flying to meet her Palestinian husband.

They found a bomb in one of her bags that her husband had planted without her knowledge.

I gather they are divorced.

Or maybe not.

He was her boyfriend, not her husband.

147 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:54:35am

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Dogs can be seen as threatening. Perhaps though, they could use breeds like Labrador Retrievers that don't scare people.

IIRC, most dogs that are used strictly for drug sniffing are mutts. The key when they pick out the dogs to use is their desire for play not aggression. Most local PD's have dual purpose dogs which requires a bigger more aggressive dog.

148 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:54:43am

re: #119 Racer X

Profiling does not mean you tag the brown people. That accusation is ridiculous. El Al is successful because they take a good hard look at those who raise suspicion. They ignore the little old ladies. They go with the odds.

Correct. A good profiling program is multi-dimensional, and doesn't concentrate on only one or two traits. It takes a large number of risk assessments into account, as well as a subject's behavior.

And it adapts as the enemy adapts, by constantly incorporating new information.

We really ought to be making use of profiling. It is extremely effective, and it is foolish to reject it based on overactive imaginings of it's shortcomings.

149 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:55:01am

re: #140 Killgore Trout

Blocked

This site was categorized in: Nudity, Pornography

Elephant, eh?

And a horse?

150 zeir  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:55:07am

At the end of all this, it could have been avoided by simply normal security profiling. The system failed. First thing, tighten the system! If 40,000 people are on no-fly and half a million on security watch, move the half million to no fly and put the burden of arguing for their reliability on them!

151 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:55:33am

re: #49 Baier

So, brown people have to be inconvenienced so white people don't have to be afraid?

The little old white lady is inconvenienced everytime she shows up two hours early at the airport and has to watch as her underwear and nighties are examined.

152 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:55:36am

re: #145 Ben Hur

What about those bomb residue detectors - not the ones with the pad; I used those in the army, but the ones you walk through and you get bl...the ones that you walk through and air blows on you?

They have one in the San Juan airport (only in one security lane) for some reason.

Have those been deemed in-effective?

Someone told me that they cost $160,000.00 per machine.

153 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:55:45am

re: #93 MandyManners

The attack on the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.

The U.S. embassies in east Africa, and that Israeli-run vacation lodge in east Africa.

154 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:55:55am

re: #146 Alouette

He was her boyfriend, not her husband.

Did she dump him?

155 RogueOne  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:56:06am

Oh, and hello everyone! Hope you all had a good holiday.

156 Racer X  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:56:48am

re: #136 avanti

A Israeli security agent said it best. "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims.

Bingo.

Factual statement, no need for anyone to get upset over it.

157 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:56:48am

re: #153 The Sanity Inspector

The U.S. embassies in east Africa, and that Israeli-run vacation lodge in east Africa.

I listed Nairobi up above. Which lodge was the latter?

158 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:57:13am

re: #130 Spider Mensch

I don't generally like giving specific examples of this sort, hence my concern; I don't want to give anyone ideas. But it's probably not anything new; I'm sure the thought has occurred to the bad guys, but they just haven't implemented anything yet for reasons of their own. And I felt it was important to show just how easy it is for the enemy to shift their target and still achieve their desired ends, at little or no cost.

159 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:57:13am

re: #155 RogueOne

Oh, and hello everyone! Hope you all had a good holiday.

Stuffed like a tick on a country mutt.

160 Ben Hur  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:57:32am

re: #146 Alouette

He was her boyfriend, not her husband.

That's right. Fiance. Going to meet his parents.

161 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:57:39am

re: #100 marjoriemoon

Personally, I'm not looking for fool proof (although El Al is). But when you hear about so many things overlooked, especially with the NW flight, it's clear we're not doing all we can do.

El Al so far has been blessed to have caught things. Nothing is ever fool proof. Though of course I pray that they continue to garner that illusion by doing such an amazing job.

There are major differences though between El Al and the American air industry.

For one Israel is really small and they have one and only one major international airport. Ben Gurion isn't even that active an airport compared to the really big ones. If the entire security apparatus of your state is focused on only one medium sized airport, it is easier to do things right.

Two, the Israelis see security as a priority before squeezing profits. Think about it, why have one big checkpoint where they haphazardly try to do everything? It is not for your safety or convenience at all. It is so the minimum expenditure on security costs can be made to deliver the product. El Al style security scaled up to something the size of America, nation wide would cost billions each year.

The bottom line is that yes of course we can improve American security at our airports and there are many more steps we can take. However, comparing American flights to El Al is not really ever going to be fair because we face much different challenges.

162 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:57:47am

re: #118 albusteve

and the pics are instantly deleted

Don't google Flash Mountain.

163 The Shadow Do  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:58:02am

re: #138 Jadespring

No, but a dog could very well detect it. :) Some of these sniffer dogs are so good that they will detect the most minute traces of bits of stuff just from handling it or in the case of things like weed being in a place where the stuff was smoked. I had roommates once that were dinged by a dog when there luggage was sniffed. They had no weed on them at the time but the they had smoked in the car on the way to the airport.

Shadow's passenger screen:
1. pass metal detector
2. pass body scanner
3. dog sniffs butt

OK, next!

164 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:58:54am

re: #149 Ben Hur


Blocked

This site was categorized in: Nudity, Pornography


Huh, I guess the animals aren't wearing pants.

165 Racer X  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:59:00am

re: #152 MandyManners

Someone told me that they cost $160,000.00 per machine.

We just spent billions to make sure GM stays in the car business. I'm sure there's another billion or two laying around for increased airport security.

166 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:59:10am

re: #150 zeir

At the end of all this, it could have been avoided by simply normal security profiling. The system failed. First thing, tighten the system! If 40,000 people are on no-fly and half a million on security watch, move the half million to no fly and put the burden of arguing for their reliability on them!

I have known one Zeir in my life..My best friend in California...Tell me you are not him..Cause that would be cool.. Bill..Is that you?

167 The Shadow Do  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:59:12am

re: #152 MandyManners

Someone told me that they cost $160,000.00 per machine.

3-40 bucks per passenger for bags. divide 160K by passenger load and figure the cost on that. Not much methinks.

168 charpete67  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:59:31am

re: #49 Baier

So, brown people have to be inconvenienced so white people don't have to be afraid?

maybe it's so brown people don't have to be afraid either...

169 zeir  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:59:50am

re: #166 HoosierHoops

No, different Zeir but all the best...

170 Baier  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:00:22am

re: #168 charpete67

maybe it's so brown people don't have to be afraid either...

That was a reply to specific comment. Don't take it out of context.

171 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:00:28am

re: #168 charpete67

maybe it's so brown people don't have to be afraid either...

As 9/11 proved, brown people and white people die the same.

172 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:00:35am

re: #165 Racer X

We just spent billions to make sure GM stays in the car business. I'm sure there's another billion or two laying around for increased airport security.

re: #167 The Shadow Do

3-40 bucks per passenger for bags. divide 160K by passenger load and figure the cost on that. Not much methinks.

Tack it onto the cost of a ticket.

173 Baier  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:01:01am

re: #171 EmmmieG

As 9/11 proved, brown people and white people die the same.

Again, taking what I said out of context.

174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:01:06am

re: #162 The Sanity Inspector

Don't google Flash Mountain.

I googled flash mountain...

175 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:01:31am

re: #115 MandyManners

You don't have to remind me of Madrid. I take PATH daily to work, and it's been targeted by terrorists several times (WTC bombing; 9/11; and the tunnel terror plot). They've got random bag checks at PATH entrances, but it's nowhere near anything sufficient. In fact, it often looks more like the PAPD tasked with the security are trying to make sure they get their counts so that if ACLU types sue, they can show that they randomly picked people out for bag checks.

Spider Mensch:
The PANY/NJ (which operates the PAPD) knows that they've got a huge bullseye on their facilities. They've been the target of more attacks in the US than anyone else, and Newark Airport was also where one of the 9/11 planes departed from. Of course, the PANY/NJ also lost quite a few people on 9/11 since the Twin Towers were its offices.

176 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:02:55am

re: #175 lawhawk

You don't have to remind me of Madrid. I take PATH daily to work, and it's been targeted by terrorists several times (WTC bombing; 9/11; and the tunnel terror plot). They've got random bag checks at PATH entrances, but it's nowhere near anything sufficient. In fact, it often looks more like the PAPD tasked with the security are trying to make sure they get their counts so that if ACLU types sue, they can show that they randomly picked people out for bag checks.

Spider Mensch:
The PANY/NJ (which operates the PAPD) knows that they've got a huge bullseye on their facilities. They've been the target of more attacks in the US than anyone else, and Newark Airport was also where one of the 9/11 planes departed from. Of course, the PANY/NJ also lost quite a few people on 9/11 since the Twin Towers were its offices.

How can they protect against a bomb on the tracks in an isolated area?

177 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:03:01am

re: #169 zeir

No, different Zeir but all the best...

Whew! That would have been unbelievable...Zeir is not a common name..
Kind regards...
/Boy the stories we could tell.. I need to email him and get him to join here

178 SasyMomaCat  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:03:04am

dang, I thought I was finally caught up with what I missed at lunch and, darn, if there isn't a new thread ahead, already over 200 comments ...

179 charpete67  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:03:16am

re: #170 Baier

That was a reply to specific comment. Don't take it out of context.

didn't mean to do that...I was really only saying that while most terrorist's are Muslim, most Muslim's are not terrorists and fear the radical terrorists just as much as we do. They should certainly appreciate added security if it means that they and their loved ones will arrive safely.

180 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:04:15am

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Another video from the Ashura protests...
Iran's police truck run over a protester in Ashura

[Video]

I hope we are supplying those people with arms. We probably aren't.

181 SasyMomaCat  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:04:40am

re: #178 SasyMomaCat

oops, that was flight number - I'm not as far behind as I thought :)

182 jdog29  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:05:14am

Until elected officials are ready to "offend" those making up the huge majority of the terrorist population, read 10 perfectly innocent muslim looking people are detained for an extra hour, while no security resources are spent searching caucasian grandmothers, until then, our airport security will remain a joke.

"He who aquits the guilty and he who condemns the innocent, both ae detestable to the Lord." Prov. 17.15

183 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:05:30am

re: #157 MandyManners

I listed Nairobi up above. Which lodge was the latter?

It was this.

184 Baier  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:06:09am

re: #179 charpete67

didn't mean to do that...I was really only saying that while most terrorist's are Muslim, most Muslim's are not terrorists and fear the radical terrorists just as much as we do. They should certainly appreciate added security if it means that they and their loved ones will arrive safely.

I know that. The comment was the end of a conversation where, I believe, it was implied that some should be inconvenienced just so others could feel safe, without actually being safer.

185 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:06:46am

re: #183 The Sanity Inspector

It was this.

Paradise Hotel, eh?

186 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:07:09am

re: #81 MandyManners

Attacks at the airports in Rome and Vienna around Christmas.

The attacks in Glasgow by doctors of all things.

187 EastSider  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:09:03am

re: #113 albusteve

you sure bring on a negative vibe...have you been reading these posts, the US is definately NOT doing all it can...who cares about the cost?, what's that got to do with it...nobody cares about the cost of their cars and toys and fat lifestyle

sorry for the negativity. But I think an important first step is the realization that 100% safety cannot ever be guaranteed. From now until the end of time, people will be crying oppression as their rights are compromised for safety, while people will also be complaining that signs and warnings were missed in the wake of attempted attacks.

And costs do come into the picture. I don't mean it just economically. People are paying the price with their time and their freedom. The question is, how much are we as a nation willing to pay to get us the maximum realistic amount of safety.

I don't propose that I know the answer. But a realistic discussion would be a good first step.

188 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:09:16am

re: #161 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, if every airport authority in the country adopted the same kind of security as Ben Gurion, then it is scalable. We're already spending billions on security, and much of that is for appearances sake, not for actual security improvement.

Much of what the Israelis do is in the form of questions by their limited security in front of the counters (along with those at the counters). Additional screening, particularly of bags, occurs behind the scenes.

That means that TSA needs to better train its personnel to look for those who are up to no good. It means giving their front line personnel more discretion (and legal protection) to ask more probing questions. It's all about asking questions and discerning legitimate travelers from those who aren't.

And when it boils down to it; continued threats and terror plots against airlines can eventually take down the airlines as an industry unless they make a point of it to improve their security protocols. That includes adopting measures that are widely used by the Israelis.

You are right in one respect - security and convenience do not go hand in hand; the Israelis have put security ahead of convenience, while the US and most of the rest of the world have tacked security on as an afterthought - and even then streamline the security for convenience purposes.

189 EastSider  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:10:23am

re: #188 lawhawk

Actually, if every airport authority in the country adopted the same kind of security as Ben Gurion, then it is scalable. We're already spending billions on security, and much of that is for appearances sake, not for actual security improvement.

The stupid burns so hard when you see this in person.

190 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:11:06am

re: #176 MandyManners

The PANY does have security monitoring their tracks; the NYPD does the same for the subways. Other rail services have varying levels of security depending on where you're talking about. It's a huge issue any way you cut it.

191 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:12:26am

re: #93 MandyManners

The attack on the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

Every single point in that article was spot on.

It is of course necessary to have security on airlines and in public places. However, it is stupid to think that all security is fool proof, or that whatever outlandish measures taken to give an ilusion of "doing something" will work.

There are only two ways to defeat the jihadis and we must pursue them both with a zeal greater than the jihadis themselves.

The first way to do this is to attempt to change the culture that these people come from. The single most effective means to so this is to empower women and promote scientific education. Societies with empowered women and the sexual liberation that come with it remove one of the major pillars of control that religious fanatics can have. Science does not have to a - priori destroy faith. However, science with it's emphasis on fact and critical thinking is poison to fanaticism.

It should be obvious that jihadis - and for that matter the Christian right - hate these two things so much precisely because they will erode fanaticism by making it silly.

Way one though will not come easily or quickly. There is no quick fix here and it is flaw of America to assume that we can "just fix this" in the space of a year or even ten. Dedicated effort over generations is needed.

The second way to deal with jihadis is to be real about them. On the one hand there is not a jihadi around every corner or under your bed. But if we do know where they are, we should not be shy about simply killing them - and perhaps more importantly, killing the financiers and foreign officials who support them. While the jihadi may not be afraid to die, members of the middle eastern aristocracy certainly are.

What we should not do is become little scared sheep. That of course ironically, but missed by so many, is giving the terrorists a win.

I updinged you for a good post. However I am not afraid of right wing Christians at the moment.

192 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:13:59am

Ooops wasn't meaning you Mandy.

193 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:16:17am

As Dennis Miller said recognizing that most terrorists are Arab males is not racist, it's being minimally observant.

194 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:16:37am

re: #186 blueheron

The attacks in Glasgow by doctors of all things.

No poverty and ignorance there!

195 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:17:34am

re: #190 lawhawk

The PANY does have security monitoring their tracks; the NYPD does the same for the subways. Other rail services have varying levels of security depending on where you're talking about. It's a huge issue any way you cut it.

Makes me love my car all the more.

196 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:20:20am

re: #186 blueheron

The attacks in Glasgow by doctors of all things.

Poverty & ignorance, don'cha know...

197 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:20:55am

re: #194 MandyManners

No poverty and ignorance there!

re: #196 The Sanity Inspector

Poverty & ignorance, don'cha know...

Get out of my head!

198 jdog29  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:21:44am

re: #193 rwdflynavy

As Dennis Miller said recognizing that most terrorists are Arab males is not racist, it's being minimally observant.

... any security strategy not recognizing this fact as the reality we live in is just making another comment on how nice the Emperor's new clothes look.

199 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:22:12am

re: #191 blueheron

I updinged you for a good post. However I am not afraid of right wing Christians at the moment.

Make them mad, and you're liable to get a Jack Chick tract stuck under your windshield wiper. The horror!

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:23:43am

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Dogs can be seen as threatening. Perhaps though, they could use breeds like Labrador Retrievers that don't scare people.

At SFO, they use small beagles for drug-sniffing. They are little, cute, and very non-threatening. I've been told that they were deliberately selected for their non-scary profile. They do the job just as well as a bigger dog.

201 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:24:59am

re: #124 zeir

They don't scare me, they are on my side.


As they are on mine but they still scare me to death! I will never forget being asked if I had any friends in Israel. Something told me I had better say no so I said no. I was waved on through. I am happy my friends weren't around to hear me say that.

202 zeir  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:26:20am

Another point about El Al, and I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but if you are a bright Israeli kid out of college with, say, a good army record and a BA in literature, you become an airline profiler! My cousin did it; the pay is good and you get to travel like crazy (and Israelis love to travel). That is to say, the young kids asking you where you stayed and where you kid goes to high school are the best and the brightest. In turn, they get under passengers' skin and find things. I don't think that is demographically true of American airport security, across the board.

203 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:26:37am

re: #128 The Sanity Inspector

Which pointed up the futility of treating Islamic terrorism solely as a criminal matter.

Which proves we don't learn.

204 EastSider  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:26:40am

re: #198 jdog29

... any security strategy not recognizing this fact as the reality we live in is just making another comment on how nice the Emperor's new clothes look.

is it possible that we are giving extra scrutiny to this demographic without making that practice public? Or that its happening at the front line implicitly?

Anecdotally, it seems that for the posters on this board, their colleagues and my own personal network dark-skinned men have proportionally more frequent and higher intensity security interactions.

205 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:27:55am

re: #129 EmmmieG

Given the anatomy of the average American, I would hope there would be a premium for having to sit and look at us naked all day.

Couldn't be that fun.


First TSA agent that laughs gets fired :(

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:29:27am

re: #53 blueheron

OK great then they can stop searching through little old ladies underwear. ///

I'm disturbed at the number of people--this isn't aimed at you, Blue--who seem most concerned not about safety, but about the idea that air travel safety is inconveniencing the 'wrong' people.

207 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:30:12am

re: #137 MandyManners

Wasn't he a lone actor?


Yes he was. Got carried away did I? :(

208 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:32:15am

re: #62 EmmmieG

I wish this was not so. My Bahai (Iranian) cousin-in-law gets searched every single time, too.

And, like you, his people have suffered persecution for their religion. They're really a very peaceful people.

(However, El Al also uses profiling techniques that have nothing to do with skin color. I recall reading that they also profile unusual behaviors, and that has saved lives.)

El Al can't rely on skin color. They are VERY good at what they do. They also do not allow everyone they don't have an immediate concern about to jog onto the flight with their luggage unexamined, which seems to be what some people imagine 'profiling' would give us.

209 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:32:28am

re: #204 EastSider

You'd also figure that one or more organizations curious to see whether or not that is happening would pony up a few bucks, hire some folk who fit/do not fit expected profiling parameters, and then send them traveling through various airports to find out. Googling will find article links on failures to spot suspicious items, including TSA's own reports.

For example, here's a somewhat dated USA Today article.

Airport Security

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:42:31am

re: #151 blueheron

The little old white lady is inconvenienced everytime she shows up two hours early at the airport and has to watch as her underwear and nighties are examined.

Tough shit. We're at war.

I'm sorry. I agree that we could improve our security measures, but nothing is going to make air travel fast, convenient AND safe any time in the near future. Do you know who that lady's relatives are? Do you know what nice young man from the neighborhood may have helped her pack her bags? No. Neither do I.

There is no way to have the level of security we want, and have no one be inconvenienced.

211 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:46:40am

re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm disturbed at the number of people--this isn't aimed at you, Blue--who seem most concerned not about safety, but about the idea that air travel safety is inconveniencing the 'wrong' people.


Believe me if you looked at me you would not think I am a danger to anyone.
Course I am a fully trained Ninja warrior! Yah!
//////////////////////

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:47:46am

re: #211 blueheron

Believe me if you looked at me you would not think I am a danger to anyone.
Course I am a fully trained Ninja warrior! Yah!
///

But are you a terrorist Ninja?

/

213 blueheron  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:48:53am

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

But are you a terrorist Ninja?

/

:(((

214 andres  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:50:19am

re: #179 charpete67

didn't mean to do that...I was really only saying that while most terrorist's are Muslim, most Muslim's are not terrorists and fear the radical terrorists just as much as we do. They should certainly appreciate added security if it means that they and their loved ones will arrive safely.

Yes, because Tim McVeigh was so brown and Muslim... ;)

You are making it sound like all terrorists are brown and Muslim, whereas they can come in different colors and religions. From what I've read in this thread, El Al does the profiling right: they don't rely on skin color/origin country/religion to flag someone, but rather their behavior.

One thing you need to understand is that today most of our enemies are Radical Muslims. Tomorrow we don't know who our enemies are going to be.

215 sagehen  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:51:16am

re: #202 zeir

Another point about El Al, and I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but if you are a bright Israeli kid out of college with, say, a good army record and a BA in literature, you become an airline profiler! My cousin did it; the pay is good and you get to travel like crazy (and Israelis love to travel). That is to say, the young kids asking you where you stayed and where you kid goes to high school are the best and the brightest. In turn, they get under passengers' skin and find things. I don't think that is demographically true of American airport security, across the board.

TSA screeners are high school graduates. They get slightly above minimum wage (and no benefits).

216 theliel  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:51:45am

late to the party but CNN has another security person's take (here's a hint, it's largely the same) Linky

217 sagehen  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:53:47am

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

Tough shit. We're at war.

I'm sorry. I agree that we could improve our security measures, but nothing is going to make air travel fast, convenient AND safe any time in the near future. Do you know who that lady's relatives are? Do you know what nice young man from the neighborhood may have helped her pack her bags? No. Neither do I.

There is no way to have the level of security we want, and have no one be inconvenienced.


The Chechnyan women who blew up those Russian planes looked a lot like Ann Coulter. I'm just sayin'.

218 Liberal Classic  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 12:16:33pm

I flew over the holiday and witnessed TSA security personnel scanning an 80 year old woman with a metal detector because she had a hip replacement. Hitchens is spot on. We're doing it wrong.

219 Gang of One  Tue, Dec 29, 2009 12:23:48pm

re: #202 zeir

Another point about El Al, and I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but if you are a bright Israeli kid out of college with, say, a good army record and a BA in literature, you become an airline profiler! My cousin did it; the pay is good and you get to travel like crazy (and Israelis love to travel). That is to say, the young kids asking you where you stayed and where you kid goes to high school are the best and the brightest. In turn, they get under passengers' skin and find things. I don't think that is demographically true of American airport security, across the board.

You said exactly what I wanted to say. A brazillion updings.

220 Snortwood  Wed, Dec 30, 2009 6:52:31am

> [Neither Bush nor Obama will use terms like "Radical Islam".

Maybe time to rename as Jihazia, or Jihazis. Easier to say, catchier, and carries the idea more directly.

Snortwood

221 Sloppy  Thu, Dec 31, 2009 8:14:47am

Coming home from Israel several years ago, we had to take our luggage to the airport the night before departure, to provide time, I assumed, to search it thoroughly. It was inconvenient to spend the last night with none of my stuff except a shaving kit, but I was glad to do it.


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