Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread
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A man once told me that you step out of your door in the morning, and you are already in trouble. The only question is are you on top of that trouble or not?
— Walter Mosley
129 comments
1 |
Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:16:32pm |
Who needs to step out the door? I can get in trouble just sitting down in front of the computer.
| 2 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:16:36pm |
It's been a while since we've seen an afternoon open thread. Glad to see them back.
| 3 |
Izzyboy Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:18:53pm |
Is Hitchens supporting profiling in the article 3 posts back? Because I agree.
| 4 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:19:36pm |
Once at work someone said to me, "Oh, you're in trouble."
I said to them, "What are we? Twelve (years old)?"
| 5 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:19:45pm |
re: #2 Killgore Trout
It's been a while since we've seen an afternoon open thread. Glad to see them back.
Hey, did you know that up there in Oregon, you have laws that allow euthanasia?
That's what Conn Carroll told me today when we did our Bloggingheads recording.
I wasn't informed about this particular right wing talking point, but I did some research today to get up to speed, and it looks like it's another ridiculous false claim.
| 7 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:20:47pm |
re: #3 Izzyboy
Is Hitchens supporting profiling in the article 3 posts back? Because I agree.
The last two or three threads have contained lengthy discussions about the difference between racial profile and behavioral profiling.
Best to be clear what you mean.
| 8 |
windsagio Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:21:34pm |
re: #5 Charles
the law works shockingly well. And (un)surprisingly, most of the people who take it are upperclass whites, not poor minorities that Medicare (or the OHP) want to get rid of.
| 9 |
Jeff In Ohio Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:21:54pm |
We're eating bean soup and corn bread. It's dinner time. It's good. My kids don't tell me what to do. I swear. I'm my own man. Really. What? I'll be right there, time to wipe some ass...
| 10 |
HelloDare Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:22:32pm |
Whether or not dropping the Poland-Czech missile shield was a wise military decision, Obama seems to have gotten no concessions for it.
Vladimir Putin threatens Barack Obama's nuclear stockpile cuts
President Barack Obama's drive for the US and Russia to agree cuts in nuclear weapons is under threat after Vladimir Putin insisted the US abandons its missile shield before a final deal can be reached.
The Russian prime minister threatened to scupper one of Mr Obama's key foreign policy successes following his initial agreement with President Dmitry Medvedev at the G20 summit in London in April.
In a notable toughening of rhetoric, Mr Putin insisted his country would develop new "offensive" weapons systems before it considered cutting nuclear warheads. He said the new weapons were necessary to prevent America's leaders from thinking they can "do whatever they want".
The Obama administration's missile defence plans were blocking any possible reduction in Russia's nuclear weapons stockpile, he insisted.
"The problem is that our American partners are building an anti-missile shield and we are not building one," he said in Vladivostok. "By building such an umbrella over themselves, our partners could feel themselves fully secure and will do whatever they want, which upsets the balance."
One of Mr Obama's signature foreign policy initiatives has been to declare that he wants "a world without nuclear weapons" and he has made plain his hope for rapprochement with Moscow. He said in April: "As a nuclear power - as the only nuclear power to have used a nuclear weapon - the United States has a moral responsibility to act."
In July, he declared his intention to "reset" troubled relations between the United States and Russia.
Two months later, he dismayed US allies in Europe by ditching Bush-era plans to set up a missile defence shield in Poland and the Czech Republic, which were previously behind the Iron Curtain.
Moscow had been bitterly opposed to those plans and at first welcomed Washington's decision.
But the olive branch has yielded little if anything in return. Instead, Moscow has used Mr Obama's intention to instead build a "smarter, stronger and swifter" system involving both sea-based and land-based mobile interceptors as a justification for continued tensions.
| 11 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:22:34pm |
re: #3 Izzyboy
Is Hitchens supporting profiling in the article 3 posts back? Because I agree.
One way to find out is to actually read the article.
| 12 |
Obdicut Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:22:38pm |
re: #5 Charles
We could do with far, far more Death with Dignity laws.
| 13 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:23:23pm |
re: #11 Charles
One way to find out is to actually read the article.
Is that like "If all else fails, read the instructions?"
| 14 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:23:24pm |
re: #8 windsagio
the law works shockingly well. And (un)surprisingly, most of the people who take it are upperclass whites, not poor minorities that Medicare (or the OHP) want to get rid of.
take what?
| 15 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:24:03pm |
| 16 |
windsagio Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:25:43pm |
re: #14 albusteve
Oops, Emmmie beat me to it!
I guess my point was, altho we all know it, states with "DwD" laws are further evidence against the Death Panel canard.
| 17 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:26:04pm |
re: #15 EmmmieG
A prescription for an overdose of morphine.
that's suicide, oh yeah, 'voluntary euthanasia'
| 18 |
The Sanity Inspector Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:26:19pm |
Oh, don't the days seem lank and long,
When all goes right and nothing goes wrong.
And isn't your life extremely flat,
With nothing whatever to grumble at!
--William Schwenck Gilbert (1836-1911)
_Princess Ida_ [1884]
| 19 |
Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:26:33pm |
re: #5 Charles
Some one has obviously not read the law.
Q: Does the Act allow euthanasia?
A: No. Euthanasia is a different procedure for hastening death. In euthanasia, a doctor injects a patient with a lethal dosage of medication. In the Act, a physician prescribes a lethal dose of medication to a patient, but the patient - not the doctor - administers the medication. Euthanasia is illegal in every state in the US, including Oregon. The Act has been legal in Oregon since November 1997.
| 20 |
windsagio Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:28:21pm |
re: #19 Bubblehead II
That part of the faq is really weaselly. I guess its important for framing purposes tho'.
| 21 |
MandyManners Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:29:01pm |
re: #10 HelloDare
It sucks having amateurs making foreign policy decisions.
| 22 |
Izzyboy Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:29:15pm |
re: #11 Charles
I did read it, and his points on the idiotic knee-jerk restrictions are spot on, but he doesn't say how he would pinpoint problem fliers, which is the opposite of the blanket restrictions.
| 23 |
drogheda Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:29:51pm |
re: #17 albusteve
that's suicide, oh yeah, 'voluntary euthanasia'
I'd consider it "self-euthanasia". And yes, it would still be suicide, but if one is dying anyway I don't personally consider one choosing when to do it of one's own accord to be offensive.
| 26 |
Randall Gross Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:31:20pm |
re: #5 Charles
Q: What is the status of the federal lawsuit against Oregon's Death with Dignity law?
A:November 6, 2001: U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft issues a directive which states, in part, that prescribing, dispensing or administering federally controlled substances to assist suicide violates the Controlled Substances Act (CSA). This new interpretation of the CSA allows the federal Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) to pursue action to revoke prescription-writing privileges and to pursue federal criminal prosecution of participating Oregon physicians.
November 7, 2001: Oregon Attorney General Hardy Myers files suit in U.S. District Court for a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction.
November 8, 2001: U.S. District Court Judge Robert Jones issues 10-day stay barring implementation of Ashcroft’s order.
November 20, 2001: Judge Jones issues a temporary restraining order against Ashcroft's ruling pending a new hearing.
January 22, 2002: Oregon Attorney General Hardy Myers files a motion for summary judgment.
April 17, 2002: U.S. District Court Judge Robert Jones upholds the Death with Dignity Act. Permanent injunction is filed.
September 23, 2002: Attorney General Ashcroft files an appeal, asking the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the District Court's ruling.
May 26, 2004: a three-judge panel upholds Judge Jones’ ruling.
July 13, 2004: Ashcroft files an appeal requesting that the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rehear his previous motion with an 11-judge panel.
August 13, 2004: 9th U.S. District Court of Appeals denies Ashcroft’s request.
November 9, 2004: Ashcroft appeals the case to the U.S. Supreme Court.
February 22, 2005: U.S. Supreme Court agrees to hear the appeal.
October 5, 2005: U.S. Supreme Court hears oral arguments in the case of Gonzales v. State of Oregon.
January 17, 2006: The U.S. Supreme Court files its opinion and upholds the 9th U.S. District Court of Appeals' decision. Oregon's law remains in effect.
| 27 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:31:29pm |
re: #5 Charles
Hey, did you know that up there in Oregon, you have laws that allow euthanasia?
Yeah, it's actually one of the things I really like about Oregon. The state can't force terminally ill patience to live out their last moments in agony. It's going to be interesting to see how that meshes with the new healthcare bill.
| 28 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:31:39pm |
Good evening everyone! How is everyone on this frigid 10 degree/ -8 with windchill evening?
| 29 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:32:09pm |
re: #23 drogheda
I'd consider it "self-euthanasia". And yes, it would still be suicide, but if one is dying anyway I don't personally consider one choosing when to do it of one's own accord to be offensive.
the only thing I find offensive is the ridiculous haggling over language, and strangers interfering with doctors, patients and their kin...I think I probably killed my own dad with morphine....call it whatever you want
| 30 |
windsagio Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:32:10pm |
| 31 |
Izzyboy Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:32:35pm |
re: #28 CapeCoddah
Good evening everyone! How is everyone on this frigid 10 degree/ -8 with windchill evening?
Wind gusts up to 40 mph earlier, crazy.
| 32 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:34:24pm |
re: #31 Izzyboy
Wind gusts up to 40 mph earlier, crazy.
Still got them 40-50 mph here, but then I am sticking 70 miles out into the Atlantic! The dogs have not gone out in hours!
| 33 |
Randall Gross Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:34:51pm |
re: #27 Killgore Trout
Yeah, it's actually one of the things I really like about Oregon. The state can't force terminally ill patience to live out their last moments in agony. It's going to be interesting to see how that meshes with the new healthcare bill.
They have a clause in the bill that prohibits spending Federal Funds for death with dignity, think they have that covered.
| 34 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:35:44pm |
re: #26 Thanos
It did piss me off that Bush tried to interfere.
| 36 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:35:46pm |
re: #30 windsagio
wait who are the amateurs?
re: #24 Bubblehead II
I just find it nitpickey. To me theres little moral distinction between the doctor pushing the button and the doctor signing off on the prescription. (and I'm for and love the law)
Mandy was referring to the European missile defense shield... not Oregon
| 37 |
drogheda Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:35:48pm |
re: #29 albusteve
the only thing I find offensive is the ridiculous haggling over language, and strangers interfering with doctors, patients and their kin...I think I probably killed my own dad with morphine...call it whatever you want
Yes I don't agree with uninvolved parties interfering with what should be a private and personal matter between patients and their doctor and any kin the patient chooses to be involved.
| 38 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:36:11pm |
Just to tie things together,
This is one of the best papers from 1998. It lays out exactly how we can tell an anthropogenic warming signal from those of the fossil and proxy record.
Since that time, the predictions of the paper have been verified.
[Link: www.st-andrews.ac.uk...]
Cross-spectral analyses are performed on the proxy data and the GFDL model data at two different frequency bands (0.02 and 0.03 cycles per year). Both analyses suggest that there is no large-scale coherency
in the series on these timescales. This implies that if the proxy data are meaningful, it should be relatively straightforward to detect a coherent near-global anthropogenic signal in surface temperature data.
And it was and it is.
This paper has 390 citations.
Reported in Science, and two years later, the following paper which refines and verifies the claims of the first was cited 280 times. It goes more deeply into the roles of El Nino and La Nina.
[Link: courses.eas.ualberta.ca...]
These papers are very readable. The methodology is plainly discussed. No data is hidden. On the contrary, like any good scientific paper, the data is used front and center to make the case. The whole story is right there for anyone to read.
The important point to bring here is that every substantive scientific challenge to our current understanding of the basics of AGW was answered some time ago. If you debate that, read the journal papers. This is not to say that we have all the answers. this is to say that we know what we know, and the arguments of so called skeptics are frequently (and at best) when they are not out and out lying or distorting based on conceptions of climate and questions about it that were resolved in some cases as far back as the 50's.
The case is here.
We know we are causing AGW. Please read how we know it.
| 39 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:36:14pm |
re: #33 Thanos
They have a clause in the bill that prohibits spending Federal Funds for death with dignity, think they have that covered.
Ah, thanks.
| 40 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:37:16pm |
re: #35 Izzyboy
Whats it like in Cape Cod?
Hey Izzy....First, it is "ON" Cape Cod, not "In" ( sorry, longstanding pet peeve)
It is bitching cold and windy. Snow is almost gone, for the moment.
| 41 |
windsagio Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:37:29pm |
re: #36 CapeCoddah
I know that. I'm just wondering who she's considering amateur? I mean surely she's not sweeping the executive and the state department under that label, is she?
| 42 |
Izzyboy Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:38:27pm |
re: #40 CapeCoddah
Hey Izzy...First, it is "ON" Cape Cod, not "In" ( sorry, longstanding pet peeve)
It is bitching cold and windy. Snow is almost gone, for the moment.
Haha, never thought of that :)
| 43 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:38:27pm |
re: #33 Thanos
They have a clause in the bill that prohibits spending Federal Funds for death with dignity, think they have that covered.
ironic, the feds will pay for abortion but not death with dignity?....do I have that right?
| 44 |
freetoken Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:38:47pm |
| 45 |
Linden Arden Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:39:11pm |
re: #34 Killgore Trout
It did piss me off that Bush tried to interfere.
Terry Schiavo marked the apogee of the GOP interference grab.
In one day the GOP intruded into a private life, shit on states rights, abrogated the Constitution and convened Congress to rule on a personal issue.
Its been all downhill since.
| 46 |
HelloDare Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:39:50pm |
re: #21 MandyManners
It sucks having amateurs making foreign policy decisions.
Yes. I posted it in the spinoff links.
As background, here is something I've posted many times before:
The Kennedy-Khrushchev Conference for Dummies
Remedial history for Barack Obama.In Portland on May 18, Obama cited John F. Kennedy's 1961 summit with Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev in Vienna among the series of negotiations that led to America's triumph over the Soviet Union in the Cold War. The Vienna summit, however, disproves Obama's assertion regarding the unvarying value of meetings between enemy heads of state about as decisively as any historical episode can refute a thesis. In addition to poor judgment, Obama has demonstrated that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
..."I never met a man like this," Kennedy subsequently commented to Time's Hugh Sidey. "[I] talked about how a nuclear exchange would kill 70 million people in ten minutes, and he just looked at me as if to say 'So what?'" In The Fifty-Year Wound, Cold War historian Derek Leebaert drily observes of Khrushchev in Vienna, "Having worked for Stalin had its uses."
... Immediately following the final session on June 4 Kennedy sat for a previously scheduled interview with New York Times columnist James Reston at the American embassy. Kennedy was reeling from his meetings with Khrushchev, famously describing the meetings as the "roughest thing in my life." Reston reported that Kennedy said just enough for Reston to conclude that Khrushchev "had studied the events of the Bay of Pigs" and that he had "decided that he was dealing with an inexperienced young leader who could be intimidated and blackmailed." Kennedy said to Reston that Khrushchev had "just beat [the] hell out of me" and that he had presented Kennedy with a terrible problem: "If he thinks I'm inexperienced and have no
guts, until we remove those ideas we won't get anywhere with him. So we have to act."Seeking the advice of former Secretary of State Dean Acheson and others, Kennedy pondered his options for the following seven weeks. On July 25 he gave a televised speech to the American people reflecting on the Vienna meeting. In the speech he announced that he was seeking congressional approval for an additional $3.25 billion in defense spending, the doubling and tripling of draft calls, calling up reserves, raising the Army's total authorized strength, increasing active duty numbers in the Navy and Air Force, reconditioning planes and ships in mothballs, and a civil defense program to minimize the number of Americans that would be killed in a nuclear attack. In August, Khrushchev responded in his own fashion, erecting the Berlin wall and resuming above ground nuclear testing. Kennedy showed his commitment to maintain Western access to Berlin by sending a battle group of 1,500 men together with Vice President Johnson and General Lucius Clay in from West Germany.
The following year brought the Cuban missile crisis, another sequel to Khrushchev's reading of Kennedy's weakness. Close as the Cuban missile crisis brought the two sides to war, however, it was perhaps not the most consequential effect of Khrushchev's reading of Kennedy's weakness. Persuaded that he needed further to demonstrate "fearlessness and backbone," in the words of William Manchester, Kennedy observed to Reston that the only place where the Communists were challenging the West in a shooting war was in Southeast Asia. Summarizing Kennedy's own evaluation of the aftermath of the Vienna conference in his 2003 biography of Kennedy, Robert Dallek writes that Kennedy "now needed to convince Khrushchev that he could not be pushed around, and the best place currently to make U.S. power credible seemed to be in Vietnam."
| 47 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:39:55pm |
re: #43 albusteve
ironic, the feds will pay for abortion but not death with dignity?...do I have that right?
The feds will not pay for either, IIRC.
| 48 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:40:03pm |
re: #44 freetoken
The AGW hoax causes euthanasia.
/just practicing...
Actually in a sense you are right. The hoax is that it is not real. If enough people continue to believe it, there will be mass death and suffering on a biblical scale. Those are the facts.
| 49 |
windsagio Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:40:38pm |
re: #43 albusteve
Will they let insurance cover it? DOES insurance cover it? That was the 'controversy' over abortion.
I should know this stuff oO
| 50 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:41:05pm |
KT... Fran suggested I send you this link... Since you are a foodie, and I come from an enormous family of them, we think you would enjoy my cousin's blog.
www.fishtailsandpearls.blogspot.com
Our grandma's homemade ravioli just went up, and there is some great stuff there. It is a fairly new blog, so much more will be going up over time.
| 51 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:41:48pm |
re: #41 windsagio
I know that. I'm just wondering who she's considering amateur? I mean surely she's not sweeping the executive and the state department under that label, is she?
If she does not, I will.
| 52 |
windsagio Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:43:08pm |
| 53 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:44:52pm |
re: #52 windsagio
OK! Just wanted to make sure I knew where you guys were coming from!
re: #48 LudwigVanQuixote
I think that gave me a headache.
I beg you to read it anyway and understand as much as you can. The deniers prey on the fact that the average person will not read the science and then won't have a clue as to what it really is or says.
If you don't educate yourself on this seriously, you will always be at risk of being a dupe.
| 54 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:45:19pm |
re: #50 CapeCoddah
KT... Fran suggested I send you this link... Since you are a foodie, and I come from an enormous family of them, we think you would enjoy my cousin's blog.
www.fishtailsandpearls.blogspot.com
Our grandma's homemade ravioli just went up, and there is some great stuff there. It is a fairly new blog, so much more will be going up over time.
Thanks. I bookmarked it and will check it regularly. It looks really well done. I like the photography. It's an element that a lot of good food blogs skip. I think it's really worth the effort.
| 55 |
windsagio Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:45:24pm |
re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote
oh no, I got it totally; I was just making a joke about the Koan-esque nature of it :)
| 56 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:46:42pm |
re: #52 windsagio
OK! Just wanted to make sure I knew where you guys were coming from!
re: #48 LudwigVanQuixote
I think that gave me a headache.
Take a couple of aspirin.re: #54 Killgore Trout
Hey KT, She had a gourmet shop and catering business for a long time. She knows how to do it right. Glad you liked it!
| 57 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:48:43pm |
the company that brought us the Firechief, Grand Am, the legendary GTO, and the Firebird is gone down the toilet....bummer
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
| 58 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:49:51pm |
re: #55 windsagio
oh no, I got it totally; I was just making a joke about the Koan-esque nature of it :)
hahaha!...ooof
| 59 |
Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:49:56pm |
re: #24 Bubblehead II
I just find it nitpickey. To me theres little moral distinction between the doctor pushing the button and the doctor signing off on the prescription. (and I'm for and love the law)
I see a big difference between the two and so did the SCOTUS (imho) when they upheld the law. In the first example, the doctor pushing the button is actively participating in the procedure.
This is what got Dr. Kevorkian aka Jack the Dripper sent to prison.
In the second, he is only providing the means to perform the actual act. The individual up to the time s/he actually takes the meds can still change their minds.
| 61 |
Randall Gross Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:50:14pm |
re: #43 albusteve
ironic, the feds will pay for abortion but not death with dignity?...do I have that right?
Where do the feds pay for abortion? I'm not aware of it if they do.
| 62 |
avanti Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:52:09pm |
re: #17 albusteve
that's suicide, oh yeah, 'voluntary euthanasia'
I can save a old pet from a miserable death, but by law, I can't ask my doctor to do the same for me if the time comes ?
| 63 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:52:16pm |
check out my pasta blog...
1001 Easy Beef-O-Roni Dishes...
I go over some different and unique ways to serve up, and bring new life the old standby
| 64 |
Randall Gross Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:53:28pm |
re: #57 albusteve
the company that brought us the Firechief, Grand Am, the legendary GTO, and the Firebird is gone down the toilet...bummer
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
That's been known since the beginning of the year, and it's generally looked upon as a good move.
My only Pontiac had both metric and SAE bolts, was a kludge of parts from all over the world, and had an engine that wouldn't swap parts with other GM vehicles. It was terribly inefficient of GM to run so many brands as if they were their own companies for so many years. They never realized the economy of scale that they could have because of that.
At least with Chrysler you could swap parts between Dodge, Plymouth and Chrysler products for the powertrain.
| 65 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:53:47pm |
re: #61 Thanos
Where do the feds pay for abortion? I'm not aware of it if they do.
it was sort of a wrap around question...I thought the House bill required it...I'm not real well informed
| 66 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:53:59pm |
re: #56 CapeCoddah
Hey KT, She had a gourmet shop and catering business for a long time. She knows how to do it right. Glad you liked it!
Her food looks very professional.
| 67 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:54:14pm |
re: #63 albusteve
check out my pasta blog...
1001 Easy Beef-O-Roni Dishes...I go over some different and unique ways to serve up, and bring new life the old standby
Steverino - you need a link to that blog!
LOL.
| 68 |
nightlight Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:54:43pm |
Fox is reporting CIA had been tracking Detroit terror suspect since August
| 69 |
Randall Gross Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:56:26pm |
Anyone know if the people in the Embassies who failed big on this one came in under Bush, or if they are new?
| 70 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:56:37pm |
So here is the short form...
We know what we know.
The science is real.
Denying the truth about AGW and taking inaction will lead to the collapse of civilization as we know it.
Here is some more to masticate on from Princeton GFDL.
[Link: www.gfdl.noaa.gov...]
| 71 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:57:25pm |
re: #64 Thanos
That's been known since the beginning of the year, and it's generally looked upon as a good move.
My only Pontiac had both metric and SAE bolts, was a kludge of parts from all over the world, and had an engine that wouldn't swap parts with other GM vehicles. It was terribly inefficient of GM to run so many brands as if they were their own companies for so many years. They never realized the economy of scale that they could have because of that.
At least with Chrysler you could swap parts between Dodge, Plymouth and Chrysler products for the powertrain.
as the years went by Pontiac went downhill...the earlier Grand Ams were a mess and the Firebird just died like the rest of the old pony cars...the new GTO was the very worst of the retro cars, just an awful design that pretty much pissed fans off when it came out....Pontiac was a gonner long ago
| 72 |
The Sanity Inspector Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:57:39pm |
| 73 |
Gus Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:57:41pm |
re: #69 Thanos
Anyone know if the people in the Embassies who failed big on this one came in under Bush, or if they are new?
Robin Renee Sanders
U.S. Ambassador to Nigeria
[Link: nigeria.usembassy.gov...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 74 |
nightlight Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:58:38pm |
Now CNN is reporting that the CIA actually met with the bomber's father.
| 75 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Dec 29, 2009 3:59:48pm |
re: #69 Thanos
Anyone know if the people in the Embassies who failed big on this one came in under Bush, or if they are new?
If I had to venture a guess I'd say they were career diplomats. No telling what administration they joined under. It might not be the embassy's failure. Did they pass on the information to the right people? Did they ignore it? Did they follow procedure? I think it's too early to tell what went wrong.
| 76 |
The Sanity Inspector Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:02:26pm |
re: #75 Killgore Trout
If I had to venture a guess I'd say they were career diplomats. No telling what administration they joined under. It might not be the embassy's failure. Did they pass on the information to the right people? Did they ignore it? Did they follow procedure? I think it's too early to tell what went wrong.
Wouldn't surprise me if there's simply no clear directive as to who is suppose to take ownership of a case like this, especially after the initial screenings have been breached.
| 77 |
nightlight Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:02:51pm |
re: #75 Killgore Trout
If I had to venture a guess I'd say they were career diplomats. No telling what administration they joined under. It might not be the embassy's failure. Did they pass on the information to the right people? Did they ignore it? Did they follow procedure? I think it's too early to tell what went wrong.
The CIA knew:
CIA had report on suspect before plane bombing attempt
(CNN) -- The father of terrorism suspect Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab talked about his son with someone from the CIA and a report was prepared, but the report was not circulated outside the agency, a reliable source told CNN's Jeanne Meserve on Tuesday.
| 78 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:03:13pm |
re: #67 reine.de.tout
Steverino - you need a link to that blog!
LOL.
I hate to post an actual link...Charles can be fussy about pimping you know...but here it is
Cantastic!.com
| 79 |
Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:05:03pm |
My #59 was in response to Windsago's #30 btw.
*pimf*
| 81 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:05:56pm |
| 82 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:06:21pm |
re: #76 The Sanity Inspector
Wouldn't surprise me if there's simply no clear directive as to who is suppose to take ownership of a case like this, especially after the initial screenings have been breached.
another case of 'who's on first?'
| 84 |
freetoken Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:07:00pm |
re: #70 LudwigVanQuixote
Just for you... from the Russian Federation, a recent graphic on their "Climate Doctrine":
[Link: en.rian.ru...]
Read carefully the "Goal" in the blue box bottom right... notice what it says and doesn't say.
| 85 |
KingKenrod Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:07:48pm |
re: #77 nightlight
The CIA knew:
CIA had report on suspect before plane bombing attempt
(CNN) -- The father of terrorism suspect Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab talked about his son with someone from the CIA and a report was prepared, but the report was not circulated outside the agency, a reliable source told CNN's Jeanne Meserve on Tuesday.
This must be why Obama issued such a strong statement earlier about system failures. He's trying to get out in front of the storm of criticism. It probably won't do him any good.
| 86 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:08:54pm |
re: #81 Charles
Charles Johnson on Security and Saudi 'Art Therapy' %P% The Atlantic Wire
'Art Therapy'....joins the ranks of descriptive lexicon...kudo's!
| 87 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:10:47pm |
| 88 |
brookly red Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:13:03pm |
re: #85 KingKenrod
This must be why Obama issued such a strong statement earlier about system failures. He's trying to get out in front of the storm of criticism. It probably won't do him any good.
I am thinking that there will be more news about this forthcoming. Something went very wrong here and somebody is going to pay.
| 89 |
Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:13:55pm |
re: #87 albusteve
This is the error message I got.
Safari can’t open the page “[Link: www.cantastic!.com...] The error is: “unknown error” (WebKitErrorDomain:101) Please choose Help > Report Bugs to Apple, note the error number, and describe what you did before you saw this message.
| 90 |
freetoken Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:14:00pm |
Since Health Care Reform is still a hot political topic, a related note:
Taxpayers Foot the Bill for Caribbean Med School Grads’ Defaults
| 91 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:15:23pm |
According to Mueller, she told Sheen that she wanted a divorce, at which time he grabbed her neck and said "you better be in fear. If you tell anybody, I'll kill you -- your mother's money means nothing, I have ex-police I can hire who know how to get the job done and they won't leave any trace."
Hollywood...it never ends
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
| 92 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:15:49pm |
re: #81 Charles
Charles Johnson on Security and Saudi 'Art Therapy' %P% The Atlantic Wire
I just saw that thread and went reading through it.
Good for you Charles.
There is also the point that the principles this nation was founded on were actually good ones. The moral thing and the most pragmatic thing need not be exclusive. The world is not perfect. It never will be. However, deciding that the best we can do is not good enough is not the answer either.
The fact was always that Bush and Co wanted to put these people in an oubliette. Had we done what we were supposed to do and given fair and speedy hearings (even a fair military tribunal would have been fine, provided it was fair and open and speedy) we would not have this mess. We also would have maintained our national honor and not given endless propaganda to our foes or eroded the support of America itself for tough action.
However, Bush and Co never did let a little thing like the law get n the way of their ideas of reality - or helping their Saudi buddies.
This all ties together.
No one... and I mean no one sensible on the "other side" of these debates wants to see terrorists harm Americans (or anyone). No one sensible thinks that the bad apples are people who you can just say kumbayah to. However, actually doing the right thing was actually the right thing to do from any perspective. Had we done the right thing first, those whome we picked up, who were actually innocent would have been released. Those who were seriously guilty would have been punished - and had we done so to the highest standards, even our enemies would know that we are a nation of laws.
If we are to be the good guys, we need to be the good guys. If we are to sell the notion that our way is better, it must actually be better - and it is, when we live up to it.
The fact that the so called moralists of the GOP consistently miss that point is a major part of the slippery slope that has led us to the present circus on the right.
| 93 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:16:48pm |
re: #89 Bubblehead II
This is the error message I got.
Safari can’t open the page “[Link: www.cantastic!.com...] The error is: “unknown error” (WebKitErrorDomain:101) Please choose Help > Report Bugs to Apple, note the error number, and describe what you did before you saw this message.
it's a joke...there is no Cantastic!.com...I do not have a food blog...it's all a lie
| 94 |
Digital Display Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:17:43pm |
re: #91 albusteve
According to Mueller, she told Sheen that she wanted a divorce, at which time he grabbed her neck and said "you better be in fear. If you tell anybody, I'll kill you -- your mother's money means nothing, I have ex-police I can hire who know how to get the job done and they won't leave any trace."
Hollywood...it never ends
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
We know who the 1/2 man is in 2 1/2 men
| 95 |
Randall Gross Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:19:04pm |
re: #73 Gus 802
Robin Renee Sanders
U.S. Ambassador to Nigeria[Link: nigeria.usembassy.gov...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
It would have been one of the staff, not the ambassador.
| 96 |
HelloDare Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:19:44pm |
CBS News has learned that as early as August of 2009 the Central Intelligence Agency was picking up information on a person of interest dubbed "The Nigerian," suspected of meeting with "terrorist elements" in Yemen.
Sources tell CBS News "The Nigerian" has now turned out to be Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. But that connection was not made when Abudulmutallab's father went to the U.S. Embassy in Nigeria three months later, on November 19, 2009. It was then he expressed deep concerns to a CIA officer about his son's ties to extremists in Yemen, a hotbed of al Qaeda activity.
In fact, CBS News has learned this information was not connected until after the attempted Christmas Day bombing.
"We must get better at collecting these bits of information, putting them together at a central point, analyzing them and then acting," said Lee Hamilton, the vice-chair of the 9/11 Commission.
| 97 |
Gus Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:20:50pm |
re: #95 Thanos
It would have been one of the staff, not the ambassador.
They have a couple of others at the embassy site.
| 98 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:21:37pm |
re: #94 HoosierHoops
We know who the 1/2 man is in 2 1/2 men
he will flourish and continue to make millions
| 100 |
Randall Gross Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:21:55pm |
re: #97 Gus 802
They have a couple of others at the embassy site.
See the post above, it would have been the CIA station chief at the embassy most likely.
| 101 |
Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:22:12pm |
re: #93 albusteve
Sort of figured it was a joke from this.
"1001 Easy Beef-O-Roni Dishes...",
but it is a hell of a name for a food blog about canned meals.
/Damn! I feel so used! :-)
| 102 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:22:13pm |
re: #84 freetoken
Just for you... from the Russian Federation, a recent graphic on their "Climate Doctrine":
[Link: en.rian.ru...]
Read carefully the "Goal" in the blue box bottom right... notice what it says and doesn't say.
I've been calling for some time that the Russians see themselves as a climate winner. Climate changes will hurt them, but they will decimate the US and China. The Russians, if they can keep their borders secure and dodge spreading contagion, are set to be the dominant power in the next century. The US is looking at a near total collapse of its domestic agriculture coupled with the loss of most of its major cities in addition to a devastating shortage of fresh water. China is in a similar boat, as are large swaths of Europe. All of our economic strengths go out the window in such a situation.
Russia on the other hand, makes a ton of money off of oil sales to Europe, forts up, and begins shifting agriculture to the north. They even get warm water ports out of the deal - which of course destroy American naval doctrine, but that won't matter, we won't be able to support our navy then anyway.
Don't think for a moment that the Russians don't play chess, and very well at that.
| 103 |
limewash Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:22:44pm |
re: #27 Killgore Trout
Washington State has that law now too : [Link: www.associatedcontent.com...]
| 104 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:22:53pm |
Radio screamer Mike Gallagher says we should have separate lines for anyone with the name Ahmed, Abdul, or Mohammed.
Rep. Peter King says "100% of Islamic terrorists are Muslims."
Oh, my aching head.
| 105 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:23:02pm |
re: #101 Bubblehead II
Sort of figured it was a joke from this.
"1001 Easy Beef-O-Roni Dishes...",
but it is a hell of a name for a food blog about canned meals.
/Damn! I feel so used! :-)
you were....tough room!
| 106 |
researchok Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:24:20pm |
re: #95 Thanos
Thanos, OT
I was unable to locate any links re Plattsburgh/rendition of KSM, et al.
I was able to find out that some Plattsburgh references were redacted from DOD news and press releases site (had a journo contact do some research).
In any event, without further corroboration, I shall concede I was in error.
| 107 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:24:25pm |
re: #62 avanti
I can save a old pet from a miserable death, but by law, I can't ask my doctor to do the same for me if the time comes ?
Sometimes being a cat has real advantages.
| 108 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:24:52pm |
re: #65 albusteve
it was sort of a wrap around question...I thought the House bill required it...I'm not real well informed
House bill forbids it, and puts some fences around it.
| 109 |
brookly red Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:25:20pm |
re: #96 HelloDare
"We must get better at collecting these bits of information, putting them together at a central point, analyzing them and then acting," said Lee Hamilton, the vice-chair of the 9/11 Commission."
/now where have I heard that before?
| 110 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:26:32pm |
re: #93 albusteve
it's a joke...there is no Cantastic!.com...I do not have a food blog...it's all a lie
Sob...how can I ever trust you again?
/Can I use the Cantastic name for a blog?
| 111 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:26:58pm |
re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist
House bill forbids it, and puts some fences around it.
I thought the issue went up for auction...I've lost track, thanks
| 112 |
Randall Gross Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:27:04pm |
re: #106 researchok
Thanos, OT
I was unable to locate any links re Plattsburgh/rendition of KSM, et al.
I was able to find out that some Plattsburgh references were redacted from DOD news and press releases site (had a journo contact do some research).
In any event, without further corroboration, I shall concede I was in error.
You might not have been in error - I'm not saying they don't exist, I"m saying it's pretty unlikely considering there are partisans from both sides in our agencies.
| 113 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:28:43pm |
re: #102 LudwigVanQuixote
Actually just to continue the thought. Of course the Russians don't care that by accelerating the problem we buy it.
Further, increased desertification in their south will allow them to have a larger buffer against Chinese, Muslim and other refugees.
That is the future we are looking at. The Russians read this one correctly. It suits them well.
| 114 |
limewash Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:28:44pm |
Speaking of open threads. Enjoyed during the holidays the new Sherlock Holmes movie. I was expecting I would be disappointed in this movie, but I came out surprised and impressed with this version. Watson's character played by Jude Law was exceptional and I really like this take vs previous Watson characters from the Basil Rathorne and Jeremy Brett's versions.
I think I enjoyed this movie more than Avatar. Though I loved the action in Avatar, this movie appealed to me more for some reason.
| 115 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:29:24pm |
re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist
Sob...how can I ever trust you again?
/Can I use the Cantastic name for a blog?
I cannot be left alone unsupervised
| 116 |
Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:30:58pm |
re: #105 albusteve
I know, we even have one of these on occasion
| 118 |
albusteve Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:32:27pm |
re: #109 brookly red
"We must get better at collecting these bits of information, putting them together at a central point, analyzing them and then acting," said Lee Hamilton, the vice-chair of the 9/11 Commission."
/now where have I heard that before?
a lot of blather...but really, BO didn't say anything too stupid and I give him credit for that, sooner or later we will get another wake up call and the feds will simply have to act...it's just so disheartening that 9/11 didn't seem to do it...the TSA is a joke
| 119 |
researchok Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:32:42pm |
re: #112 Thanos
You might not have been in error - I'm not saying they don't exist, I"m saying it's pretty unlikely considering there are partisans from both sides in our agencies.
Fair enough.
That said, I do know the relevant events occurred on 2006. My source says I'm on the right track but has yet to come up with corroboration. I will keep you and KT posted. What I do know is that this was approved by the Bush WH- at the top, according to my source.
| 120 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:35:24pm |
re: #71 albusteve
as the years went by Pontiac went downhill...the earlier Grand Ams were a mess and the Firebird just died like the rest of the old pony cars...the new GTO was the very worst of the retro cars, just an awful design that pretty much pissed fans off when it came out...Pontiac was a gonner long ago
I'm still driving a 9 year old busted up Grand Prix.
| 121 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:35:55pm |
re: #104 Charles
Radio screamer Mike Gallagher says we should have separate lines for anyone with the name Ahmed, Abdul, or Mohammed.
Rep. Peter King says "100% of Islamic terrorists are Muslims."
Oh, my aching head.
I understand that one hundred percent of Lutheran pastors are also Protestants.
[Video]
| 122 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:49:05pm |
| 123 |
abolitionist Tue, Dec 29, 2009 4:49:40pm |
Online poster appears to be Christmas Day bomb suspect
December 29, 2009 4:47 p.m. EST
(CNN) -- "Let me tell you a little about me.""Farouk1986" introduced himself to a Muslim online community with these words in February 2005.
"My name is Umar but you can call me Farouk," the poster continues, detailing biographical information that appears to match the life of Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab, the 23-year-old Nigerian man accused of attempting to detonate an explosive on an international flight into Detroit, Michigan, on Christmas Day.
[snip]Being lonely awakened sexual desires that he struggled to control, he said, sometimes "leading to minor sinful activities like not lowering the gaze." His religion instructed him to fast to avoid such temptation, but it didn't seem to be working, Farouk1986 said.
Not lowering the gaze!? The horror. The Horror! (Too much Qubt?)
| 125 |
oldegeezr Tue, Dec 29, 2009 5:47:16pm |
This is very interesting; if true...?
The olde geezer, with goat breath may be gettin' ready to take a powder...!
| 126 |
abolitionist Tue, Dec 29, 2009 5:58:30pm |
re: #125 oldegeezr
This is very interesting; if true...?
The olde geezer, with goat breath may be gettin' ready to take a powder...!
Interesting. From your link,
Reports from Iran indicate that the Supreme National Security Council has ordered a complete check-up of the jet which is on standby to fly Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei and his family to Russia should the situation in Iran spiral out of control. The order, to the Pasdaran Revolutionary Guard Corps, was dated on Sunday, 27 December. A fax containing the order was sent to Dutch-based Shahrzad News.
A flurry of banking activity would tend to confirm, I'd imagine.
| 127 |
oldegeezr Tue, Dec 29, 2009 6:07:53pm |
re: #126 abolitionist
I donno...I’m thinking these olde mullah goats, would have their moolah squirreled away well in advance; unless they felt they were invincible?
| 128 |
oldegeezr Tue, Dec 29, 2009 6:20:29pm |
re: #126 abolitionist
Any financial moves made with the Swiss or the Ruskies would be all but invisible, or may have been consummated on a prior precautionary basis. The link I posted is more than twenty-four hours old.
| 129 |
oldegeezr Tue, Dec 29, 2009 6:55:21pm |
Al Jazeera- English-UPDATED ON:
Wednesday, December 30, 2009
04:16 Mecca time, 01:16 GMT
Iran rally leaders 'enemies of God'A representative of Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has said opposition leaders were "enemies of God" who should be executed under the country's sharia law.
"Those who are behind the current sedition in the country ... are mohareb (enemies of God) and the law is very clear about punishment of a mohareb," Abbas Vaez-Tabasi, the representative of Khamenei, who possesses ultimate authority in Iran, said in a statement on Tuesday.
Under Iran's Islamic sharia law the sentence for "mohareb" is execution.
The statement coincided with rallies by tens of thousands of government supporters calling for opposition leaders to be punished for fomenting unrest after June's disputed presidential election media said.
Ah the damn "goat cheese"; she becomes more binding...!
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