Breitbart’s Big Government: Not Strong on Fact Checking

Blogosphere • Views: 5,685

Here we go again.

Andrew Breitbart’s Big Government blog has a story on the release of another batch of White House visitor records, and they’ve found sinister evidence that Barack Obama is in cahoots with the dreaded demons of ACORN: White House Visitors Log: ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis In Obama Residence Week Before Sting Videos Launched - Big Government.

According to the visitor logs, on September 2nd Bertha E. Lewis made an appointment on to visit the White House on September 5th at 12:30. (We usually need to plan further ahead to get our hair cut.) On the evening of the 4th, that appointment was cancelled so Bertha could move her appointment earlier, to 10am. …

In addition, the record notes that she was to receive a STAFF TOUR, which are different-and more special-than the regular Group Tours available to others.

Ms. Lewis doesn’t seem to have returned to the White House after this visit. Of course, just 5 days after this visit, James O’Keefe would release the first video of his undercover journalism on the systemic corruption within ACORN.

After the firestorm that erupted from O’Keefe’s reporting, President Obama was asked by Fox News for his opinion on the scandal. Despite long-standing ties to ACORN, Obama acted almost as if he’d never heard of the group.

Of course, at that point, it had been…several…days…since ACORN’s CEO was in the Residence at the White House. Who can keep up?

Of course, it is possible that this isn’t ACORN’s Bertha Lewis. After a previous dump of visitor records listed the name, Jeremiah Wright, the White House said, ‘oh, that was a different Jeremiah Wright.’ The media, of course, said, ‘okay,’ and never followed up. So, maybe the Bertha Lewis listed here isn’t the CEO of ACORN. Just another Bertha Lewis who gets special weekend access to the White House Residence, complete with an extra-special staff tour. Sure, possible, but we’d love to see a bookie’s odds on that.

Of course, one way to find out whether this is the same Bertha Lewis would be to Google her name and see what comes up — but when you’re in a rush to publish a smear piece, who bothers checking facts?

And guess what? ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis’s full name is not “Bertha E. Lewis.” I spent those precious 10 seconds on a Google search that Andrew Breitbart’s blogger “Publius” couldn’t be bothered to do, and look what turned up: Cityfile: Bertha M. Lewis.

This is really getting pathetic. What happened to the idea that blogs were supposed to be good at fact checking?

The post has been up at Big Government for two days, without a retraction.

Jump to bottom

259 comments
1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:27:12am

Apropos of nothing:

Bertha is a name that sounds awful in the English version, but very nice in the French version.

2 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:27:24am

No need to fact-check when you are a mission from G-d.

3 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:29:27am

They will put it out there and leave it out there, Breitbart's sites long ago went from news outlets to machine politics outlets. Regardless of what they tell you about the tea parties etc. it's the same old machine and same people that backed the Buchanan brigaders way back when.

4 Big Steve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:29:32am

Pretty sad isn't it.......I saw this yesterday on Politico...Wrong Bertha....I guess Breitbart has gotten over his hangover to correct yet.

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:30:55am

re: #2 ggt

No need to fact-check when you are a mission from G-d.


You need a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, for it to be dark out, and wear sunglasses.

6 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:31:41am
7 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:33:07am

Iceberg, Goldberg, what's the difference?
[Link: www.jewishsightseeing.com...]

8 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:33:48am

"The post has been up at Big Government for two days, without a retraction."

Not only that, it looks like the comments have been full of sarcastic comments about the mistake for at least one day. What kind of vacuous blogger just puts their head in the sand? Oh, wait, Michelle does that all the time...

9 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:34:18am

Some folks believe they are so perfect they don't need to check anything. Paraphrasing something I read earlier: We don't need no stinking checks.

10 darthstar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:35:08am

I loves me some Bertha.

11 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:36:08am

What is the matter with you people? Facts can be twisted or changed... you need to have faith. Don't let the romantic notion of facts deter you from your objective.

12 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:37:15am
Of course, one way to find out whether this is the same Bertha Lewis would be to Google her name and see what comes up — but when you’re in a rush to publish a smear piece, who bothers checking facts?


Heh. I don't even bother fact checking right wing blogs anymore. I just assume they're full of shit.

13 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:37:19am

So? I don't see what importance Breitbart is trying to attach to the timing of this relative to the sting video. Obama did not literally say he had never heard of ACORN. By itself, a visit to the White House would not necessarily imply a strong relationship even if it had been ACORN Bertha rather than a different one.
It would be a lot more interesting if the sting actors had been on the visitor log.
/

14 darthstar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:38:32am

Maybe the White House should have a little fun with this. Find someone named Santa Claus (there are a few out there) to have visit. John Lennon. Elvis Prestley (we all know the King lives). and of course an Osama bin Laden would be perfect for theteabloggers (is this the coinage of a new term?) to get their panties in a twist about.

15 vxbush  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:39:18am

Gotta go, lizards; I have my own research to do.

16 Digital Display  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:39:56am

re: #15 vxbush

Gotta go, lizards; I have my own research to do.

Happy New Year VX

17 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:43:56am

Since when does any White House tour get you to actually see the president anyway? It doesn't! You think people meeting the president do so by signing up for a White House tour? Good grief. It's just a stupid story on its face.

18 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:45:29am

Big Bertha
A visit from this one would not be good.

(There is a widespread misconception that "Big Bertha" was the ultra-long range cannon with which the Germans shelled Paris at a range of 77 miles in 1918. In fact, the Germans used the name to refer to a monstrous howitzer they had used in 1914, and that had a range of less than 8 miles. It was named for Bertha Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach, heiress to the Krupp armaments empire that had manufactured it. )

19 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:48:15am

The comments are a deranged combination of conspiracies about stolen elections and blatant racism.....

Jackal - December 31st, 2009 at 1:23 am

Damn, is that a woman or a pissed off silverback, I can't tell. I never liked National Geographic.

20 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:50:28am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

Yeah - I read through a few of those it was all the standard idiocy.

21 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:50:36am

Well, if you turn an M 90 degrees counter-clockwise, it sort of becomes an E.

22 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:52:17am
tkpisces - December 31st, 2009 at 1:49 am

Where, oh where
is Dan White
when we need him????


Dan White

JeffinNY - December 31st, 2009 at 2:21 am

The "smoking gun" may be the only option that those of us who still believe in the constitution have left!

ken - December 31st, 2009 at 2:27 am

she needs to die, oh wait we give terrorist ACLU lawyers, Steak & Lobster dinners and time off for good befavior

...etc

23 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:52:52am

Charles is much kinder than I am, I would have titled this "BIG Breitbart" Blows it on Bertha...

24 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:53:24am
guest - December 31st, 2009 at 3:39 am

Free rep forum:
"Darwin:'Blacks are not human, they are a different species close to Chimps and Apes"
US Constitution:" "Blacks are only 2/5 Human"
Here is Proof :
Our Jails are full of Blacks!!

There's tons of this stuff. Sigh.

25 Cathypop  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:54:48am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

There's tons of this stuff. Sigh.


Idiots like this just make white-trailer-trash look intelligent!

26 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:54:57am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

There's tons of this stuff. Sigh.

Yep hate and more hate followed by paranoia and delusion, then they rinse and repeat.

27 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:55:19am

re: #21 negativ

And if you turn an E 90 degrees counter-clockwise you get a W.

28 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:56:01am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

There's tons of this stuff. Sigh.

Yeah. Plenty of equally good dumpster diving is available over at DU and DK on any thread related to Limbaugh the last couple of days.

29 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:56:16am
CONTRIBUTOR: Andrew Breitbart - December 31st, 2009 at 7:23 am

Oh for crying out loud. This group of people at this site, at Tea Parties have zero love for Goldman Sachs, or its affiliate Wall Street scammers. Indeed, they are a part and parcel of the modern Democratic Party, a necessary money generating political engine to fuel elite liberal candidates who sign on to any and all redistributive program the progressives craft. The Wall Street left and the Bertha Lewis/ACORN/FANNIE/FREDDIE/HUD crowd make for one nasty cabal of evil. And the middle class of this country suffer for their loose knit informal Democrat majority-driven reparations-by-another name redistribution mafia. Hell yes, Goldman Sachs is guilty. Let them all hang!

30 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:56:23am

THE BERTHA TO END ALL BERTHAS
(possibly NSFW, maybe)

31 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:57:22am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

There's absolutely no way to ignore it: the ACORN paranoia is driven by racism. Fact.

32 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:58:07am

re: #30 negativ

Love that song.

33 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:00:18am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

There's absolutely no way to ignore it: the ACORN paranoia is driven by racism. Fact.

I remember there being some ACORN suspicion here at LGF before the election. I don't believe any of it was racist. I think there is still some legitimate concern, too bad any real investigation will be twarted because of the Whacko paranoia which is way beyond racism (IMHO), it's bat-shit -I don't have a word for what it is-. Just Hatred, I guess, Hatred for anything different. It could be someone who puts purple streaks in their hair or earrings in their nose --ANYTHING. Racism is the obvious insidious symptom.

34 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:03:08am

re: #32 Killgore Trout

It's hard not to love a song whose lyrics go,

BOMP
BOMP
BABBA DUMP
BAAAA
BUMP-BUM-BUMP
BABBA DUMP


Somehow, that strikes me as less stupid than:
PA PA PA POKER FACE
PA PA POKER FACE
NA NA NA NA

35 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:04:11am

The most I could find out about "staff tours" are they are private tours given by your Congressman or Senator's staff. And the biggest difference, it seems, is that you have a scheduled time to go and don't have to wait in line. But the tour itself doesn't seem to be any different.

[Link: www.thecapitol.net...]

Tip: Many Congressional offices [that would be your senator or congressman's office] also offer tours of the US Capitol conducted by their own staff members (depending on staff availability). If you cannot get tickets for the Congressional tour, be sure to ask about a staff tour. This can be a real godsend in the summer, because the line for the public tour forms outside in the humid summer heat.

36 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:04:27am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

There's tons of this stuff. Sigh.

Do you have direct links to those comments? I'll update the post with them, just to make it clear what kind of people Big Government is pandering to.

(Their comment system is awful. I really hate those threaded systems that hide all replies.)

37 Cathypop  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:04:38am

Later Lizards. Time to make some Whack-a-moley and watch football!

38 Interesting Times  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:04:40am

Do you think this is indicative of the extreme contempt in which the right-wing propaganda machine holds its audience? i.e. "We don't need to bother fact-checking; they'll swallow whatever we shovel their way". At least, this is one theory I have for Fox's way of doing things (e.g. labeling Foley and Sanford party affiliation as "D", Hannity's doctored protest footage as exposed by Jon Stewart, and Gretchen Carlson's fake "dumb blonde" persona when she's actually intelligent and well-educated).

39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:07:18am

Somebody's gonna get hurt on that field in Orlando!

40 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:07:26am

OT. but not really
Bill Berkowitz on Race and the Tea Parties

[Link: blog.buzzflash.com...]

41 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:07:53am

re: #38 publicityStunted

Do you think this is indicative of the extreme contempt in which the right-wing propaganda machine holds its audience? i.e. "We don't need to bother fact-checking; they'll swallow whatever we shovel their way". At least, this is one theory I have for Fox's way of doing things (e.g. labeling Foley and Sanford party affiliation as "D", Hannity's doctored protest footage as exposed by Jon Stewart, and Gretchen Carlson's fake "dumb blonde" persona when she's actually intelligent and well-educated).

I think it works for the Extreme Right and the Extreme Left. We just haven't seen the Right Wing version for 8 years.

42 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:08:45am

re: #39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Somebody's gonna get hurt on that field in Orlando!

Thats old time football

Mud ,, smash mouth up the middle running ,,

43 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:11:35am

re: #33 ggt

I remember there being some ACORN suspicion here at LGF before the election. I don't believe any of it was racist.

I think a lot of people are being duped. Breitbart, Beck (and many others) whip up these ACORN conspiracy theories and greatly exaggerate ACORN's importance. Their agenda is clearly racist. Many conservatives believe it and unwittingly help them advance this racist agenda.

44 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:11:53am

re: #33 ggt

I remember there being some ACORN suspicion here at LGF before the election. I don't believe any of it was racist. I think there is still some legitimate concern, too bad any real investigation will be twarted because of the Whacko paranoia which is way beyond racism (IMHO), it's bat-shit -I don't have a word for what it is-. Just Hatred, I guess, Hatred for anything different. It could be someone who puts purple streaks in their hair or earrings in their nose --ANYTHING. Racism is the obvious insidious symptom.

There is a word --if it is a word --Omniphobia. Fear of everything -- The only cure I know is Faith, in something that doesn't reinforce the fear. Unfortunately, too many who *preach* do so only to the choir.

45 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:13:02am

re: #36 Charles

I don't think they have a system for direct links to comments. Check out Breitbart's comment about half way down the page. It's bolded.

46 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:13:15am

re: #43 Killgore Trout

I think a lot of people are being duped. Breitbart, Beck (and many others) whip up these ACORN conspiracy theories and greatly exaggerate ACORN's importance. Their agenda is clearly racist. Many conservatives believe it and unwittingly help them advance this racist agenda.

I think there is concern with ANY organization the size and scope of ACORN. Is it anything near what the whacko's say --I don't think so. A good audit will uncover any mismanagement.

47 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:15:14am

re: #40 Thanos

OT. but not really
Bill Berkowitz on Race and the Tea Parties

[Link: blog.buzzflash.com...]

"DAVID BERKOWITZ and the ABSYNTH GET-TOGETHER" shall be their name.

Whose name? "THEIR" name, that's who.

48 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:17:57am

re: #45 Killgore Trout

I don't think they have a system for direct links to comments. Check out Breitbart's comment about half way down the page. It's bolded.

I just checked and the time stamp is a direct link... for example:

Jackal · 1 day ago

Damn, is that a woman or a pissed off silverback, I can't tell. I never liked National Geographic.

Good grief. I can't believe some of the ugly reeking garbage being posted there.

49 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:18:07am

Both of our laptops are in for repair due to teenager manhandling. The family is reduced to one desktop computer. I re-downloaded some books from Audible to my husband's iTunes and am syncing.

Think He'll notice and complain?

50 rwmofo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:19:13am

They allow "guests" to post comments there. I just did this:


Guest44 · less than 1 minute ago
Does anyone monitor the comments here?

They required a name so I used "Guest44."

51 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:19:45am

I notice they deleted a comment from a left winger -- so they're reading this stuff, and leaving the openly racist comments posted.

52 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:20:04am

re: #49 ggt

Both of our laptops are in for repair due to teenager manhandling. The family is reduced to one desktop computer. I re-downloaded some books from Audible to my husband's iTunes and am syncing.

Think He'll notice and complain?

sorry, too early to go OT.

I need more coffee.

53 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:20:23am

re: #48 Charles

Ah, ok. I turned off my script blocker. I get it now.

AndrewBreitbart 78p

Oh for crying out loud. This group of people at this site, at Tea Parties have zero love for Goldman Sachs, or its affiliate Wall Street scammers. Indeed, they are a part and parcel of the modern Democratic Party, a necessary money generating political engine to fuel elite liberal candidates who sign on to any and all redistributive program the progressives craft. The Wall Street left and the Bertha Lewis/ACORN/FANNIE/FREDDIE/HUD crowd make for one nasty cabal of evil. And the middle class of this country suffer for their loose knit informal Democrat majority-driven reparations-by-another name redistribution mafia. Hell yes, Goldman Sachs is guilty. Let them all hang!
54 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:20:36am

re: #51 Charles

I notice they deleted a comment from a left winger -- so they're reading this stuff, and leaving the openly racist comments posted.

That's it. That's all that needs to be said.

55 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:20:45am
56 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:21:51am

re: #43 Killgore Trout

I think a lot of people are being duped. Breitbart, Beck (and many others) whip up these ACORN conspiracy theories and greatly exaggerate ACORN's importance. Their agenda is clearly racist. Many conservatives believe it and unwittingly help them advance this racist agenda.

I think they are in it solely for the money. Neither racism nor actual political opinions figure into it. They have recognized that keeping people reactionary and scared is easy and have tailored their business models accordingly.

Breitbart, Drudge, Beck, Matalin, Carville, and Rove are just fulfilling a market demand.

And laughing all the way to the bank.

57 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:22:31am

Sometimes I think the racist comments are a reaction to the PC crowd. Not an appropriate reaction, but not necessarily founded in hatred for race --more an act of defiance. I'd *like* to think that's what causes some people to post/say what they post.

The anonmity of the internet is also a factor.

I don't know, I can only look around where I live and I don't see the hatred that is shown on the internet and in the media.

58 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:24:12am

re: #56 negativ

I think they are in it solely for the money. Neither racism nor actual political opinions figure into it. They have recognized that keeping people reactionary and scared is easy and have tailored their business models accordingly.

Breitbart, Drudge, Beck, Matalin, Carville, and Rove are just fulfilling a market demand.

And laughing all the way to the bank.

agreed, I assumed that forever...if anybody can be less trustworthy of the feds, it's these media whores...$$$

59 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:25:40am

re: #56 negativ

I think they are in it solely for the money. Neither racism nor actual political opinions figure into it. They have recognized that keeping people reactionary and scared is easy and have tailored their business models accordingly.

Breitbart, Drudge, Beck, Matalin, Carville, and Rove are just fulfilling a market demand.

And laughing all the way to the bank.

yes! It is a product. But those that post comments?

60 Interesting Times  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:26:33am

re: #59 ggt

yes! It is a product. But those that post comments?

The consumers of said product.

61 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:27:27am

re: #60 publicityStunted

The consumers of said product.

But are all these people full of so much hate? Are they posting to be part of the group? Mob mentality? WTF?

62 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:28:49am

re: #45 Killgore Trout

I don't think they have a system for direct links to comments. Check out Breitbart's comment about half way down the page. It's bolded.

I didn't find links either, but the site is chock full of racist crap. There are some deleted posts. Wonder what THEY said.

Bill7021 (56p) · 1 day ago
This baboon and her "brutha" in the White House are proof positive that liberalism is a mental disease.

TEDDYROOSEVELT (63p) · 1 day ago
Bertha Lewis is a crack dealer.

USAfirst (73p) · 1 day ago
this is just shameful. These corrupt anti Americans must be thrown out of America. Start a revolution and take America back.
[Wow, I thought it was the liberals that wanted to censor opposite opinions!]

BabsNJ · 1 day ago
This broad is a CEO? She looks like she should be on an assembly line somewhere. For all of the corruption, can't she steal some money to buy some decent clothes and a decent hairdresser?

Those "p" letters btw, is part of a rating system, the IntenseDebate Reputation Meter:

The reputation meter is a measure of strength of all previous comments made on our system by a certain commenter as judged by his or her peers. It is one way to tell whether the comment you are reading is written by someone well-regarded.

52p being "good". 102p is "awesome."

63 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:29:00am

re: #61 ggt

But are all these people full of so much hate? Are they posting to be part of the group? Mob mentality? WTF?

Their hate keeps them warm.

64 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:29:40am

re: #63 Girth

Their hate keeps them warm.

so-called Christians?

/

65 simoom  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:30:03am

re: #36 Charles

The direct links don't seem to jump down to the right comment for me, though they go to the right page. For example:

[Link: biggovernment.com...]

Dangerous woman we must mark for ….u know!

followed by:

Free rep forum:
"Darwin:'Blacks are not human, they are a different species close to Chimps and Apes"
US Constitution:" "Blacks are only 2/5 Human"
Here is Proof :
Our Jails are full of Blacks!!
66 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:30:48am

re: #57 ggt

Sometimes I think the racist comments are a reaction to the PC crowd. Not an appropriate reaction, but not necessarily founded in hatred for race --more an act of defiance. I'd *like* to think that's what causes some people to post/say what they post.

The anonmity of the internet is also a factor.

I don't know, I can only look around where I live and I don't see the hatred that is shown on the internet and in the media.

A good point. It's actually quite impossible to determine motivation on the Internet. Over at Hot Air, for example, KT dropped several way-over-the-top overtly racist comments as part of an (ill advised, IMO) "experiment" to see if they would be removed. But his motivations were "pure," at least in some sense. Nonetheless, there's no little asterisk attached to those comments to indicate the intent behind them unless a reader happened to check back the following day and ran across the kernel of explanation buried amidst the chaff.

I've noted before that the Internet is a poor, highly distorted reflection of the real world for this and many other reasons. It's interesting, but overall I give it little weight unless I start running across similar sentiments being expressed in face-to-face conversations, something that so far simply hasn't occurred.

67 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:31:31am

There are some liberal posters there, but not many. There was this, and the reply.

JB4219 · 1 day ago
At least this administration didn't have the Taliban visit the WH. :)

Reply
simianrelic 76p · 1 day ago
Don't need em with all the Muslim spooks in the WH.


(notice the P rating on the reply)

68 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:32:09am

re: #61 ggt

But are all these people full of so much hate? Are they posting to be part of the group? Mob mentality? WTF?

there is probably a narcissistic factor..getting your post up in the lights, and some people just like being vile...it is what it is and as more me that's as far as I'm willing to think it through...people are bigots, racists and just plain black hearted...Breitbart and others are as well or they are enablers for profit, which in some ways is even worse

69 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:34:58am

re: #66 SixDegrees

I've noted before that the Internet is a poor, highly distorted reflection of the real world for this and many other reasons

One of which being my suspicion that some of the most vile posters doing so at multiple sites under multiple screenames making it appear the vitriol is much more widespread than what it actually is

Look here for example. How many times has a banned Lizard come back with a different name but the same vile comment? in total, it looks as if there's 10 vile comments. In reality, it's one vile mind

70 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:35:22am

Wow that's some bad shiite. I think I'm done now.

71 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:36:40am

re: #70 marjoriemoon

Wow that's some bad shiite. I think I'm done now.

Try to look at thwe sunni side of the street!

72 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:36:43am

White supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is defending the Obama shoeshine picture today.

73 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:37:40am

re: #69 sattv4u2

I've noted before that the Internet is a poor, highly distorted reflection of the real world for this and many other reasons

One of which being my suspicion that some of the most vile posters doing so at multiple sites under multiple screenames making it appear the vitriol is much more widespread than what it actually is

Look here for example. How many times has a banned Lizard come back with a different name but the same vile comment? in total, it looks as if there's 10 vile comments. In reality, it's one vile mind

Astroturfing, as it's called, is another reason to be suspect of the connection between Internet forums and reality. Even here, where Charles is quite vigilant about vigorously eliminating sockpuppets, the occasional one still slips through. And this sort of vigilance is the exception on most blogs.

74 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:38:06am

re: #55 Alouette

Wow, I never thought I would find an article at Huffington Post that I really liked. (The comments, as usual, are mostly by assholes)


I wonder how much of the quality of their screeners is related to every citizen over 22 being a veteran (most of them with combat experience)... that's some useful instincts and situational awareness that the average minimum-wage high-school-diploma American doesn't bring to the table.

75 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:38:53am

re: #72 Charles

White supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is defending the Obama shoeshine picture today.

Defending how? Does he think it's real?

76 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:41:02am

re: #74 sagehen

btw ,, I think you had already vacated the thread back two before I posted this

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

77 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:41:06am

re: #75 SixDegrees

Defending how? Does he think it's real?

No, he's just mocking the people who think it's despicable. Same thing he always does -- he denigrates people who are concerned about racism, to divert attention away from the racism itself.

And someone is using my name in the comments at his hate blog, of course.

78 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:42:34am

re: #73 SixDegrees

Astroturfing, as it's called, is another reason to be suspect of the connection between Internet forums and reality. Even here, where Charles is quite vigilant about vigorously eliminating sockpuppets, the occasional one still slips through. And this sort of vigilance is the exception on most blogs.

But somehow, they seem to find comments by "liberals" and delete them. For example:

Iamnoone · 1 day ago

This comment has been deleted by the administrator.

79 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:43:49am

re: #71 sattv4u2

Try to look at thwe sunni side of the street!

LOL Are you a Life of Brian fan? (some may find this blasphemous, but I think that's the point)

80 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:43:57am

re: #77 Charles

And someone is using my name in the comments at his hate blog, of course.

You should consider that a Badge of Honor. I would.

81 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:44:35am

OT ,, Northwestern/ Auburn tied with 4 seconds left

NW to try a field goal

82 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:44:49am

gotta go folks

Have a great January 1, 2010!

83 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:45:05am

re: #81 sattv4u2

OT ,, Northwestern/ Auburn tied with 4 seconds left

NW to try a field goal

No Good ,, overtime

(very good bowl games in progress)

84 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:45:18am

re: #72 Charles

White supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is defending the Obama shoeshine picture today.

Ha!. No surprise there.

85 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:45:39am

re: #78 Charles

Funny that. They deleted the comment, but not the replies!

86 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:46:37am

re: #79 marjoriemoon

LOL Are you a Life of Brian fan? (some may find this blasphemous, but I think that's the point)

[Video]

HUGE fan of all things Python

(and as a Roman Catholic, I don't think there was anyone in the theatre laughing/crying harder than mysellf when I 1st saw it)

87 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:46:44am

re: #78 Charles

Yes, but this only amplifies my point that such forums are a poor reflection of reality.

88 Digital Display  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:47:44am

re: #83 sattv4u2

No Good ,, overtime

(very good bowl games in progress)

Looking forward to the Rose Bowl... Currently LSU vs. Penn State at halftime

89 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:50:12am

re: #88 HoosierHoops

Looking forward to the Rose Bowl... Currently LSU vs. Penn State at halftime

Yup,, they have a good one going on in the mud

Also, FSU 13 and West Virginia 14 at the half

All good games going on

90 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:50:41am

re: #86 sattv4u2

... (and as a Roman Catholic, I don't think there was anyone in the theatre laughing/crying harder than mysellf when I 1st saw it)

How did you like Dogma?

91 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:50:52am

re: #77 Charles

No, he's just mocking the people who think it's despicable. Same thing he always does -- he denigrates people who are concerned about racism, to divert attention away from the racism itself.

And someone is using my name in the comments at his hate blog, of course.

Stacy may need to be reminded that you're not supposed to drink the first discharge that trickles out of the 'still.

92 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:51:50am

re: #66 SixDegrees

I've noted before that the Internet is a poor, highly distorted reflection of the real world for this and many other reasons.

I submit that the Internet is the true face of the real world, because it is (relatively) anonymous. Everyone is free to say what they really think, to be a world-class troll, to indulge in what they really want to indulge in, and so on, more or less without any threat of social consequences. These are things that 100% of humans NEED to do (I have a long and rather well-developed ontological argument in support of this, which nobody reading this would care about).

It is my opinion that if you perceive the Internet to be a distorted reflection of the real world, that is indicative only of a faulty perception.

93 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:52:06am

re: #90 Olsonist

How did you like Dogma?

Never saw it

((vaguely even remember hearing about it))

Any good? I can NETFLIX it

94 simoom  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:54:10am

re: #36 Charles

[Link: biggovernment.com...]

I have a question and it involves race. Is that still allowed in America?

Has any nation in history prospered when the leader was a black man?

This is both a sociology question and an economic question. It is asked because I am wondering if they can do their job when they were put into position by racists. I would vote for Michael Steele or a JC Watts in a heartbeat as they are conservatives. However, I doubt that they are electable by the black community as they are not handing out anything. And according to black groups, they are sell-outs, AKA "Oreos", as I once heard Michele Steel say when I went to hear him speak.

So are we such a racist nation, and that includes some blacks hating whites like that professor in Boston who said he was oppressed by a white cop, that to elect a black man to the office of the presidency only increases racial tensions? If we listen to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, whites can only be accepted as good people if they come to the table to talk to blacks with true contrition in their hearts. My parents were in Ireland during the years of slavery, so he can pound salt up his racist butt before I ask for forgiveness for anything.

Man of Reason

95 rwmofo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:54:54am

re: #72 Charles

White supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is defending the Obama shoeshine picture today.

If I were to send that picture to someone using my employer's email account, I could be fired. This isn't rocket science.

96 Interesting Times  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:54:58am

re: #92 negativ

I submit that the Internet is the true face of the real world, because it is (relatively) anonymous. Everyone is free to say what they really think, to be a world-class troll, to indulge in what they really want to indulge in, and so on, more or less without any threat of social consequences.

My suspicion exactly - would someone who enjoys surfing child porn wave print-outs of the stuff around in public? I tend to see the Internet more as a "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The shadow knows" type of thing. Then again, I do hope what others have said - about only a few being responsible for most of the bile - is true. If not, I'm building my own underground bunker. /

97 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:56:01am

re: #93 sattv4u2

Never saw it

((vaguely even remember hearing about it))

Any good? I can NETFLIX it

Umm, if you're Catholic with a really good sense of humor, you should check it out. I thought it was brilliant but your cosmogony may vary.

98 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:57:27am

re: #97 Olsonist

Umm, if you're Catholic with a really good sense of humor, you should check it out. I thought it was brilliant but your cosmogony may vary.

I have to look at myself every day in the mirror

I can either laugh, or cry

I have chosen laughter all these many years

99 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:58:54am

re: #97 Olsonist

I also thought that Godard's Je vous salue Marie was beautiful and brilliant but the Church disagreed somewhat.

100 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:58:59am

The hits keep coming....

Minnesota State Senate candidate removes racist comments from his Twitter feed.


Local bloggers are reporting that Minnesota State Senate candidate Mike Parry removed more than 43 racist and homophobic tweets from his Twitter feed after progressives began researching and responding to him. The Minnesota Independent highlights one of Parry’s scrubbed tweets, which was apparently directed at President Barack Obama:
....
After winning the GOP’s endorsement this week, Parry aptly described himself as “pro-life, a Christian, a second amendment rights supporter, a hard worker and not politically correct.”
101 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:02:00pm

re: #92 negativ

I submit that the Internet is the true face of the real world, because it is (relatively) anonymous. Everyone is free to say what they really think, to be a world-class troll, to indulge in what they really want to indulge in, and so on, more or less without any threat of social consequences. These are things that 100% of humans NEED to do (I have a long and rather well-developed ontological argument in support of this, which nobody reading this would care about).

It is my opinion that if you perceive the Internet to be a distorted reflection of the real world, that is indicative only of a faulty perception.

All I have to do is walk around any public place, or chat with my neighbors or coworkers or even strangers I meet on the street, to convince me that what's seen on Internet forums doesn't represent reality.

Charles has remarked on this several times: particularly when forums aren't effectively moderated, the most extreme, rabid elements wind up dominating as they drive all moderate participants away, skewing what's left beyond any semblance of ordinary life.

And, as noted, there is no way to determine what a person's actual motivation is. Taken at face value, KT's comments at Hot Air clearly mark him as a racist. He took the time to explain that facts were otherwise, but there's simply no way at all of telling what other people may mean by such comments. I've been known to drop some corrosively sarcastic comments at Malkin's site, for example, that someone determined to see particular flavor of evil around every corner would probably take as supporting their argument.

Then there's the matter of sheer volume; the really obsessive loons can swamp a board single-handedly. It isn't at all unusual to see a thread with a thousand comments, but only a dozen actual posters who made all of them.

Sorry, but I'll stick with reality, and judge the artificial world by it, rather than the obverse.

102 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:02:49pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

btw ,, I think you had already vacated the thread back two before I posted this

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]


Yeah, I did.

I went back and replied.

103 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:02:49pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

If someone says their racist comments have any relation to 'political correctness, they're freakin' lying racists.

Thats the wierd thing thats coming out these days. The whackos KNOW that its not okay to do/say some of these things, so they make excuses or deny.

/almost makes the direct honesty of the neo-nazis refreshing.

104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:04:13pm

re: #98 sattv4u2

Totally love ya for it, too.

105 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:06:48pm

re: #101 SixDegrees

Really good post, but I think its worth adding, that a careful reader CAN usually figure out what somebody's motivations are, especially over time.

106 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:08:21pm

re: #102 sagehen

Yeah, I did.

I went back and replied.

and re-replied. I have closed that window, so now that we are over 100 posts here, perhaps if you have anything further we won't have to go "back there"

107 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:09:03pm

re: #104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Totally love ya for it, too.

Back Attchya, Big Guy with the busted garage wall!

108 dugmartsch  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:09:35pm

re: #57 ggt

Sometimes I think the racist comments are a reaction to the PC crowd. Not an appropriate reaction, but not necessarily founded in hatred for race --more an act of defiance. I'd *like* to think that's what causes some people to post/say what they post.

The anonmity of the internet is also a factor.

I don't know, I can only look around where I live and I don't see the hatred that is shown on the internet and in the media.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry. I'm all for the benefit of the doubt in light of the ease of mis-communication in digital forums, but, if you don't think there are crazy racists looking for any excuse to bring their hated of black people into a conversation, you're just hanging out with too many decent people.

Was at my girlfriend's hometown in upstate new york over the holiday's visiting one of her childhood friends. Childhood friend's husband said something to the effect of (unprompted and completely non-sequitur to the conversation) "who cares I mean you've already let black people touch the baby?" while joking around about craziness being transmitted to the baby from being around too many crazy people. Kind of shut down the conversation really quick. In that area, those kinds of attitudes about lazy, violent black folks are really common and there are lots of areas just like it.

The thing about the racists I've met that's always seemed so strange is that they LOVE talking about how much they hate black people.

109 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:10:39pm

OT ,, Auburn beats NorthWestern by 3 in overtime

110 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:11:34pm

OT: David Broder appears to have totally lost it. He has an article today saying how amazing Napolitano has been. To whit:

Most Americans got their first prolonged look at Janet Napolitano, the secretary of homeland security, last weekend. After a passenger on a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam ignited a concealed fuse as the plane approached Detroit for a landing, apparently intending to blow it up and kill all aboard, it fell to Napolitano to take charge of the federal response.

It came as no surprise to anyone who knows her that Napolitano handled the incident and its aftermath with aplomb.

"aplomb"? Now I know she was taken out of context but using the phrase "the system worked" about anything to do with December 25th was just completely dunderheaded. Yes, she meant after the failed attack but man, it was a stupid thing to say. I think she is a competent person and probably good at her job but singing the praises of how great she was on the Sunday talk shows is just bizarre.

111 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:11:47pm

re: #109 sattv4u2

OT ,, Auburn beats NorthWestern by 3 in overtime

bummer...been 60yrs for NW

112 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:12:52pm

re: #111 albusteve

bummer...been 60yrs for NW

Teh suck is strong with their kicker.

113 yael  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:13:09pm

re: #92 negativ

I must respectfully disagree, at least in part, with the idea that the Internet is the true face of the real world, because anonymous posters can express their most extreme thoughts, "more or less without any threat of social consequences." In the real world there are consequences (such as getting fired) for actions that are antisocial, bigoted, or otherwise condemned in sociiety as a whole. Anonymous internet posters are indulging in their worst impulses precisely because they can do so without any actual responsibility for consequences.
However, those who use their public position to allow and/or enable this garbage are accountable and their actions are despicable.

114 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:16:09pm

re: #110 Cineaste

OT: David Broder appears to have totally lost it. He has an article today saying how amazing Napolitano has been. To whit:

"aplomb"? Now I know she was taken out of context but using the phrase "the system worked" about anything to do with December 25th was just completely dunderheaded. Yes, she meant after the failed attack but man, it was a stupid thing to say. I think she is a competent person and probably good at her job but singing the praises of how great she was on the Sunday talk shows is just bizarre.

she has no experience in law enforcement, international law or security...she is the wrong person for the job

115 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:17:16pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout
guest - December 31st, 2009 at 3:39 am

Free rep forum:
"Darwin:'Blacks are not human, they are a different species close to Chimps and Apes"
US Constitution:" "Blacks are only 2/5 Human"
Here is Proof :
Our Jails are full of Blacks!!

There's tons of this stuff. Sigh.

The irony (and interesting historical footnote) is that most people don't understand the origin of the 2/5 argument. The South wanted them counted as full people and the North wanted them counted as less. Everyone assumes it was the other way round. Why? Well because if they were counted then the South would get more representatives in the House - your population governs your representation. So, though blacks couldn't vote, they wanted all of them counted as full people while the North didn't want the South to have that much power, especially if much of it's populace couldn't vote, so they proposed the 2/5 human counting measure.

116 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:17:52pm

re: #113 yael

I regret I have only one upding

117 palomino  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:18:04pm

Breitbart and his band of right-wing malcontents aren't good at much of anything...except venting over the election results of 2006 and 2008, and casting themselves as victims of some huge conspiracy of urban blacks (ACORN!!), illegal immigrants, feminists, and of course Hollywood liberals.

Breitbart is one of the most intellectually challenged and dishonest of the many clownish bloggers. His response to every smear is a bigger, more outlandish smear. The sick thing is that he really thinks he has the moral high ground.

118 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:18:40pm

re: #115 Cineaste

guest - December 31st, 2009 at 3:39 am

Free rep forum:
"Darwin:'Blacks are not human, they are a different species close to Chimps and Apes"
US Constitution:" "Blacks are only 2/5 Human"
Here is Proof :
Our Jails are full of Blacks!!

The irony (and interesting historical footnote) is that most people don't understand the origin of the 2/5 argument. The South wanted them counted as full people and the North wanted them counted as less. Everyone assumes it was the other way round. Why? Well because if they were counted then the South would get more representatives in the House - your population governs your representation. So, though blacks couldn't vote, they wanted all of them counted as full people while the North didn't want the South to have that much power, especially if much of it's populace couldn't vote, so they proposed the 2/5 human counting measure.

It was the "3/5 Compromise" not 2/5.

/I'm a math major

119 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:20:26pm

re: #114 albusteve

she has no experience in law enforcement, international law or security...she is the wrong person for the job

Sorry Steve,

Janet Napolitano

1993, Napolitano was appointed by President Bill Clinton as United States Attorney for the District of Arizona.
She ran for and won the position of Arizona Attorney General in 1998.
Then she was elected Governor of AZ in 2003.

Facts.

120 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:20:59pm

re: #33 ggt

I remember there being some ACORN suspicion here at LGF before the election. I don't believe any of it was racist. I think there is still some legitimate concern, too bad any real investigation will be twarted because of the Whacko paranoia which is way beyond racism (IMHO), it's bat-shit -I don't have a word for what it is-. Just Hatred, I guess, Hatred for anything different. It could be someone who puts purple streaks in their hair or earrings in their nose --ANYTHING. Racism is the obvious insidious symptom.

Quite Concur. There is a difference between being opposed to ACORN's methods and goals and seeing them as some sort of boogyman.

121 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:21:32pm

re: #114 albusteve

she has no experience in law enforcement, international law or security...she is the wrong person for the job

What are you talking about? She was a Federal Circuit Court clerk, a US Attorney (not assistant, but full US Attorney), Attorney General of Arizona and Governor of Arizona. How can you say she has no background in law enforcement?

122 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:21:36pm

re: #113 yael

I must respectfully disagree, at least in part, with the idea that the Internet is the true face of the real world, because anonymous posters can express their most extreme thoughts, "more or less without any threat of social consequences." In the real world there are consequences (such as getting fired) for actions that are antisocial, bigoted, or otherwise condemned in sociiety as a whole. Anonymous internet posters are indulging in their worst impulses precisely because they can do so without any actual responsibility for consequences.
However, those who use their public position to allow and/or enable this garbage are accountable and their actions are despicable.

Agreed. Especially when you have a forum of like minds to rant with.

It's a fine line for me because we're speaking of censorship. Should people be given a forum to spew such hatred? That's one thing. In this country, it's not against the law to be a racist. What is against the law if you do something illegal because of it. Like someone getting all riled up about Obama and wanting to start their own private revolution.

It's pack, mob mentality that dehumanizes people. You see it in gang rapes, too. I think that is very dangerous indeed because it draws in people that may be easily influenced.

123 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:22:32pm

re: #118 Alouette

It was the "3/5 Compromise" not 2/5.

/I'm a math major

Sorry 'bout that - as I was publishing that comment I realized that 2/5 didn't sound right. You are 100% correct.

124 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:23:13pm

re: #115 Cineaste

I'm not sure if that's completely accurate. Beck brought that up recently.....
Beck Defends Founding Fathers’ Decision To Count African-Americans As Three-Fifths Of A Person

Beck also distorts the motives of the Founders to whitewash their actions by suggesting that Northerners allowed the three-fifths rule purely as an eventual means to ending slavery. But his theory doesn’t explain why the Constitution prohibited outlawing the Atlantic slave trade for twenty years after ratification nor why it included a clause requiring runaway slaves be returned to their owners.
125 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:23:14pm

Check out this bizarre attempted gotcha moment by hateblogger Donald Douglas -- he posts a screenshot of a comment I made (not a post, a comment) as if he thinks I'm going to delete it:

[Link: 74.125.155.132...]

The comment was posted before the NW 253 terrorist's Al Qaeda ties were confirmed, and I commented that at that point, it didn't seem like an Al Qaeda attack.

Douglas seems to think I should post a "retraction." I hope he's holding his breath waiting for that.

Pamela "Shrieking Harpy" Geller also posted the screenshot, with a picture of me as the Joker, and wrote:

Who is paying this clown?

126 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:23:30pm

re: #119 Olsonist

Sorry Steve,

Janet Napolitano

1993, Napolitano was appointed by President Bill Clinton as United States Attorney for the District of Arizona.
She ran for and won the position of Arizona Attorney General in 1998.
Then she was elected Governor of AZ in 2003.

Facts.

sorry about what?...I know her background, and none it has anything to do with high security or terrorism...she's a party hack and scored big

127 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:24:43pm

re: #108 dugmartsch

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry. I'm all for the benefit of the doubt in light of the ease of mis-communication in digital forums, but, if you don't think there are crazy racists looking for any excuse to bring their hated of black people into a conversation, you're just hanging out with too many decent people.

Was at my girlfriend's hometown in upstate new york over the holiday's visiting one of her childhood friends. Childhood friend's husband said something to the effect of (unprompted and completely non-sequitur to the conversation) "who cares I mean you've already let black people touch the baby?" while joking around about craziness being transmitted to the baby from being around too many crazy people. Kind of shut down the conversation really quick. In that area, those kinds of attitudes about lazy, violent black folks are really common and there are lots of areas just like it.

The thing about the racists I've met that's always seemed so strange is that they LOVE talking about how much they hate black people.

There's a song for situations like that:

128 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:25:09pm

re: #101 SixDegrees

All I have to do is walk around any public place, or chat with my neighbors or coworkers or even strangers I meet on the street, to convince me that what's seen on Internet forums doesn't represent reality.

Sorry, but I'll stick with reality, and judge the artificial world by it, rather than the obverse.

Are you completely honest with those neighbors and coworkers? Do you tell them about every single thought that passed through your mind since the last time you spoke to them? If you had a fight with your spouse/kids/parents that morning, do you tell your neighbors and coworkers every detail when they ask, "how are you"? Do you tell your coworker about it when you think his wife (and/or daughter!) is a blazing hot piece of ass?

We agree to maintain an illusion of civility, because it is beneficial to us. When that civility breaks down, horrible things inevitably happen. History shows it.

The world is not "artificial". Reality is just 'whatever happens'. Sometimes, reality is that people conglomerate their best thinking, and the result is men walking on the moon and returning safely to Earth. Other times, reality is what happens when people conglomerate their best thinking, and as a result they become certain that the Creator of the universe wants them to inflict epic-scale suffering and death upon those who have a different opinion than they do.

129 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:25:19pm

re: #50 rwmofo

They allow "guests" to post comments there. I just did this:

Guest44 · less than 1 minute ago
Does anyone monitor the comments here?

They required a name so I used "Guest44."

Didn't you even have to submit an email address? Do they check that before allowing your post?

130 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:26:40pm

re: #126 albusteve

wait, so 'US Attorney, State AG, and Governer' = 'no experience in law enforcement, international law or security'?

131 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:26:42pm

re: #110 Cineaste

OT: David Broder appears to have totally lost it. He has an article today saying how amazing Napolitano has been. To whit:

"aplomb"? Now I know she was taken out of context but using the phrase "the system worked" about anything to do with December 25th was just completely dunderheaded. Yes, she meant after the failed attack but man, it was a stupid thing to say. I think she is a competent person and probably good at her job but singing the praises of how great she was on the Sunday talk shows is just bizarre.

Agreed. She didn't fail badly like some have said, but her performance wasn't worthy of praise either.

132 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:27:23pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure if that's completely accurate. Beck brought that up recently...
Beck Defends Founding Fathers’ Decision To Count African-Americans As Three-Fifths Of A Person

While I do not like to defend Beck, I think he is correct in this instance. The article that you quote there from ThinkProgress, doesn't address his point. They extrapolate that the reason for the 3/5ths compromise is that Northerners wanted to end slavery but nothing about my point (and Beck's) implies that. They (the Northerners) just wanted power and allowing slaves to vote would give more power to the southern states. I don't maintain it was about slave's rights, it was about head counts in the house of representatives.

133 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:27:45pm

re: #130 windsagio

wait, so 'US Attorney, State AG, and Governer' = 'no experience in law enforcement, international law or security'?

if you think she is fit for the, that's fine with me

134 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:28:17pm

re: #130 windsagio

wait, so 'US Attorney, State AG, and Governer' = 'no experience in law enforcement, international law or security'?

Albusteve is fond of calling Democrats hacks. ;-)

135 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:28:33pm

re: #126 albusteve

sorry about what?...I know her background, and none it has anything to do with high security or terrorism...she's a party hack and scored big

You said she had no background in law enforcement. You were wrong. It's ok, but you were just objectively wrong.

136 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:28:34pm

re: #126 albusteve

sorry about what?...I know her background, and none it has anything to do with high security or terrorism...she's a party hack and scored big

I suppose you can write an essay comparing and contrasting her with say, Tom Ridge, no? Assistant District Attorney, Republican Congressman, Gov, ...

This shouldn't take you long since you already know her background.

137 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:29:19pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

I think she took the common (but foolish) position amongst gov't employees that the most important thing was to promote calm. Of course that doesn't work, and is a bit condescending as well.

re: #133 albusteve

No, no. Justify your statement. How does that experience fit with you saying she has 'no experience' in those fields?

138 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:29:44pm

re: #134 WindUpBird

Albusteve is fond of calling Democrats POLITICAL TYPES OF ALL MANNER hacks. ;-)

accuracy

139 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:29:45pm

re: #133 albusteve

if you think she is fit for the, that's fine with me

The point which you are ignoring and constantly ignore is that you made a statement, it turns out to be bullshit and but rather than admit it you pretend you said something different and ignore all evidence to the contrary, even a quote of your own freaking comments.

140 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:29:46pm

re: #134 WindUpBird

/what, is his whole life a giant partisan lense?

141 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:30:21pm

re: #134 WindUpBird

Albusteve is fond of calling Democrats hacks. ;-)

anybody that gets promoted over their head in return for loyalty is a hack imo....got nothing to do with one party rather than another

142 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:30:23pm

re: #138 sattv4u2

accuracy

Yea you are the voice of accuracy. Right.

143 yael  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:30:42pm

re: #122 marjoriemoon

Very well said - that is why I place responsibility for consequences on the people who, for whatever motive (profit, intellectual arrogance, wishing to feel important, or even sincere but deplorable opinion), give credence, support, and a place for these ugly sentiments to be vented.

144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:30:55pm

Gonna go fix a hole.

145 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:31:01pm

re: #128 negativ

Well, you seem to really, really want to believe that the Internet is somehow a valid cross section of the population's viewpoints.

Let's simplifty: those on the Internet are a subset of the entire population. And they are not a representative subset.

So right out of the gate, your position doesn't hold water.

Add to that all the other problems I've already noted, and things only get worse.

Maybe you need to get out more.

146 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:31:44pm

re: #134 WindUpBird

Albusteve is fond of calling Democrats hacks. ;-)

Demo-Hacks shall thereby be added to the lexicon in Steve's honor.

147 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:31:55pm

re: #134 WindUpBird

OT: Is A gonna be up to watch the Rose Bowl? If so have him call or ding me, I'll bring chips!

148 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:32:40pm

re: #113 yael

In the real world there are consequences (such as getting fired) for actions that are antisocial, bigoted, or otherwise condemned in sociiety as a whole. Anonymous internet posters are indulging in their worst impulses precisely because they can do so without any actual responsibility for consequences.

That's more or less exactly what I said. It's a bit weird that you claim to disagree with me, and then as a rebuttal restate my argument (the one you're supposed to be refuting).

However, weird is GOOD, especially if you are a single, child-free, female-type person who weighs less than I do (72.5kg)

149 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:32:44pm

re: #139 Locker

The point which you are ignoring and constantly ignore is that you made a statement, it turns out to be bullshit and but rather than admit it you pretend you said something different and ignore all evidence to the contrary, even a quote of your own freaking comments.

no, I gave a casual opinion and am eating a pizza...I really don't care for another word debate

150 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:32:58pm

re: #145 SixDegrees

Well, you seem to really, really want to believe that the Internet is somehow a valid cross section of the population's viewpoints.

Let's simplifty: those on the Internet are a subset of the entire population. And they are not a representative subset.

So right out of the gate, your position doesn't hold water.

Add to that all the other problems I've already noted, and things only get worse.

Maybe you need to get out more.

Well, they are a representative subset. They represent people who own computers with internet access who chose to put out some sort of content. Just as any phone poll is a representative subset of folks who own phones, are willing to answer them and are willing to respond to a survey.

151 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:33:00pm

re: #141 albusteve

anybody that gets promoted over their head in return for loyalty is a hack imo...got nothing to do with one party rather than another

Please give us the criteria for a DHS secretary in your mind. Also, please tell us if Tom Ridge was qualified and, if so, what was the difference between his qualifications and Napolitano?

Keep in mind, you have not made an argument based on her position on issues but you have repeatedly said she has no experience or qualifications.

152 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:33:13pm

re: #142 Locker

Yea you are the voice of accuracy. Right.

Didn't claim to be, but to say that albusteve doesn't lambast BOTH repub and dems as hacks is false, and if you didn't know that, you're either
A) not paying attention
or
B) showing your own pre-judged view of him

153 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:33:31pm

re: #145 SixDegrees

I dunno, I think he has a valid point. Especially in unmoderated places, people tend to let their id take over on forums/blogs. They may put them in an unacceptable manner, but what they're saying probably has alot to do with what they really believe.

154 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:33:52pm

re: #149 albusteve

no, I gave a casual opinion and am eating a pizza...I really don't care for another word debate

It's not a word debate. You made an entire statement that was proven to be false and you dodge, twist and squirm rather than just admitting you were wrong. Pizza and your casual bullshit have nothing to do with it.

155 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:34:38pm

re: #151 Cineaste

I think he pines for Giuliani.

156 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:34:39pm

re: #149 albusteve

Dude, you're dodging. Just own up.

Nobody will think less of you for honesty!

157 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:34:55pm

re: #152 sattv4u2

Didn't claim to be, but to say that albusteve doesn't lambast BOTH repub and dems as hacks is false, and if you didn't know that, you're either
A) not paying attention
or
B) showing your own pre-judged view of him

Or perhaps your perspective is skewed because he's on "your side" and in your eyes he's an equal opportunity lambaster when in fact, he is not.

158 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:35:23pm

re: #151 Cineaste

Please give us the criteria for a DHS secretary in your mind. Also, please tell us if Tom Ridge was qualified and, if so, what was the difference between his qualifications and Napolitano?

Keep in mind, you have not made an argument based on her position on issues but you have repeatedly said she has no experience or qualifications.

no

159 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:36:08pm

re: #158 albusteve

no

Gee a minute ago we couldn't shut you up. Come on details, details.

160 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:36:50pm

re: #157 Locker

Or perhaps your perspective is skewed because he's on "your side" and in your eyes he's an equal opportunity lambaster when in fact, he is not.

"my side"!?!?!?

And what "side" am I on?

Tell me my views on, oh ,, abortion, same sex marriage, gun ownership,

Lets see if you know "my side"

161 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:37:05pm

re: #158 albusteve

Well, do you think Las Cruces should be renamed?

162 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:37:21pm

re: #135 Cineaste

You said she had no background in law enforcement. You were wrong. It's ok, but you were just objectively wrong.

FWIW, judges, attorneys and AGs are not technically law enforcement officers in the US or several other countries.

163 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:37:24pm

re: #157 Locker

Or perhaps your perspective is skewed because he's on "your side" and in your eyes he's an equal opportunity lambaster when in fact, he is not.

you've been here a few short months and make alot of silly assumption...just another attack dog to me....I don't mind ignoring you, post whatever mean ass thing you want

164 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:38:01pm

re: #159 Locker

I think thats all we're gonna get from him. I'm just gonna save it for next time he says something crazy/ untrue.

"Hey, remember what you said about Napolitano? Are you ready to admit you were wrong yet?"

re: #162 SixDegrees

- for profligate weaseldom.

165 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:38:20pm

re: #155 Olsonist

I think he pines for Giuliani.

My god, what credentials does he have?

Oh wait... US Attorney... Mayor...

Sounds like....

nevermind...

Keep in mind the only reason Giuliani was wandering the streets outside my house in front of the cameras on 9/11 as "America's Mayor" was because someone had just blown up the building that housed his emergency department despite him being told not to put it in that building.

166 Claire  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:39:26pm

What's Bertha Lewis's maiden name? Does it start with an E? Do we care? No. Okay, lol.

167 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:39:41pm

re: #163 albusteve

YOu can tell When Steve is on the ropes, because he tries to pull rank for seniority >>

168 bloodnok  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:39:51pm

re: #160 sattv4u2

"my side"!?!?!?

And what "side" am I on?

Tell me my views on, oh ,, abortion, same sex marriage, gun ownership,

Lets see if you know "my side"

He doesn't. He (and others) just stir shit. It's tiresome.

169 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:40:05pm

re: #150 Locker

Well, they are a representative subset. They represent people who own computers with internet access who chose to put out some sort of content. Just as any phone poll is a representative subset of folks who own phones, are willing to answer them and are willing to respond to a survey.

Which is not representative of the population as a whole.

Thanks for backing me up.

A visit to either of DU or DK today, combing through any of the threads on Limbaugh's hospitalization, for instance, would - I hope - NOT be representative of the feelings of the leftward world in general, let alone of the world in general.

170 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:40:30pm

re: #161 Olsonist

Well, do you think Las Cruces should be renamed?

no, I like it

171 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:40:55pm

re: #167 windsagio

YOu can tell When Steve is on the ropes, because he tries to pull rank for seniority >>

Is he a member of the Class of 2004, most of whom are now over at The Free Republic?

172 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:41:42pm

re: #164 windsagio


re: #162 SixDegrees

- for profligate weaseldom.

Make of it what you will. Words have meaning, and accuracy is important.

173 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:41:55pm

re: #162 SixDegrees

FWIW, judges, attorneys and AGs are not technically law enforcement officers in the US or several other countries.

No, but they are officers of the court. And if you seriously claim that prosecutors have no background in law enforcement (keep in mind, Albusteve said she had no background in law enforcement, not as a law enforcement officer if you want to split hairs) then I would ask why prosecutors swear to enforce the law?

174 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:44:28pm

re: #172 SixDegrees

That would be more precision, than accuracy. It *is* accurate that being a US attorney or Attorney General (or Governor) you have alot to do WITH law enforcement, even if you're not technically a member. Its deceptive to bring up that distinction, makes you look like you're trying to defend a lie.

175 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:44:52pm

Stupid fucking squabble. You got lick in on Steve, let it be.

176 yael  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:44:59pm

re: #148 negativ

The point on which I -respectfully, be it noted- disagreed with you was that the Internet reflects the true face of the real world. It may well be that all kinds of nasty thoughts simmer in the backbrains of the people who go about their daily lives as peaceful, responsible human beings. However, in the real world these feelings will be sanctioned by society if they are carried out. Posters can brag all they want on the Internet about the fury of their outrage and how they would like to damage the objects of their hatred. I agree that these feelings are dangerous and encouraging them is both despicable and irresponsible. But the idea that most people not only have evil impulses but are prepared to enact them is, I think, contrary to real life for the vast majority of us. (Could be mistaken, of course.... but very much hope not.)

177 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:45:11pm

re: #162 SixDegrees

FWIW, judges, attorneys and AGs are not technically law enforcement officers in the US or several other countries.

Attorney General

In the Federal Government of the United States, the Attorney General is a member of the Cabinet and as head of the Department of Justice is the top law enforcement officer and lawyer for the government.

178 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:45:57pm

re: #173 Cineaste

No, but they are officers of the court. And if you seriously claim that prosecutors have no background in law enforcement (keep in mind, Albusteve said she had no background in law enforcement, not as a law enforcement officer if you want to split hairs) then I would ask why prosecutors swear to enforce the law?

That's fine. But people are rapidly moving toward the sort of syllabic non-analysis I so despise, so it seems to me that a definition of what's actually being discussed is in order.

179 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:46:39pm

re: #177 Olsonist

State Attorney General

The state Attorney General in each of the 50 U.S. states and territories is the chief legal advisor to the state government and the state's chief law enforcement officer.

180 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:47:22pm

re: #173 Cineaste

No, but they are officers of the court. And if you seriously claim that prosecutors have no background in law enforcement (keep in mind, Albusteve said she had no background in law enforcement, not as a law enforcement officer if you want to split hairs) then I would ask why prosecutors swear to enforce the law?

there are two sides to it...those that prevent crime and hunt down those that break the law...and prosecutors who do just that...it is splitting hairs but I don't apologize for it, I think you get my drift...she is a party hack, just like Ridge was...it makes me no difference if there is a difference of opinion here...once posters become too sensitive and personal I just drop it, because at that point it goes nowhere

181 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:47:23pm

re: #175 BigPapa

Stupid fucking squabble. You got lick in on Steve, let it be.

But of course now he wants to turn it into a squabble about something else so we'll all pretend that he didn't just say something stupid. Frankly, sometimes you have to say, my mistake, I was wrong about that but I believe X...

Charles does that with grace all the time. Steve's ego seems to not let him...

182 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:47:40pm

re: #175 BigPapa

Its not about 'getting a lick in'. I'd like to think that this is a place where that kind of lying bullcrap wasn't acceptable. If I were to make a statement like that, I'd get raked over the coals (god knows its' happened), but I'd also own up and apologize (which has also happened).

If people are allowed to make totally untrue partisan comments like that and don't have to defend them, it degrades the quality of the blog in general.

183 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:47:41pm

re: #174 windsagio

That would be more precision, than accuracy. It *is* accurate that being a US attorney or Attorney General (or Governor) you have alot to do WITH law enforcement, even if you're not technically a member. Its deceptive to bring up that distinction, makes you look like you're trying to defend a lie.

I'm not trying to defend anything at all. Just pointing out that people are quickly losing track of what they're even talking about.

Never mind. The discussion has already descended to the ad hominem level, so actual, rigorous definitions aren't really required anymore.

184 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:48:12pm

re: #178 SixDegrees

That's fine. But people are rapidly moving toward the sort of syllabic non-analysis I so despise, so it seems to me that a definition of what's actually being discussed is in order.

Granted - but the AG position is a law enforcement officer.

185 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:49:20pm

re: #183 SixDegrees

not really :p

Its important! People shouldn't get a free pass, for whatever reason. Its not Ad Hominem to demand accountability and truth.

186 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:50:32pm

re: #184 Cineaste

Granted - but the AG position is a law enforcement officer.

Not according to the Wiki article I cited, or several other references.

But like I said - never mind. It's become far more important for participants to simply rag on one another than engage in any sort of factual discussion.

Or, more properly, two separate monoscussions.

187 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:51:44pm

re: #180 albusteve

there are two sides to it...those that prevent crime and hunt down those that break the law...and prosecutors who do just that...it is splitting hairs but I don't apologize for it, I think you get my drift...she is a party hack, just like Ridge was...it makes me no difference if there is a difference of opinion here...once posters become too sensitive and personal I just drop it, because at that point it goes nowhere

So, by this reasoning all attorneys general and US attorneys should be disqualified from the position of DHS secretary as they are all political appointees, yes? What about formers directors of the CIA, FBI, NSA or other intelligence agency? I'm genuinely curious as to who is a qualified candidate in your eyes. Given that the DHS position is an appointee, by definition, don't they become a political hack when chosen in your reasoning?

Again, you haven't provided any argument that Napolitano was a bad governor, AG or US Attorney. She may have been, and I'd be happy to hear about it, but your reasoning has been that she had no experience with the law and that is, objectively, incorrect.

188 The Left  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:52:35pm

re: #176 yael


But the idea that most people not only have evil impulses but are prepared to enact them is, I think, contrary to real life for the vast majority of us. (Could be mistaken, of course... but very much hope not.)

Well, quite a few political philosophers would disagree with you. So would a few historians. Sadly, what history shows us is that many, if not most, so called 'ordinary people' are only too willing to go along with perfectly evil actions. If not by performing them themselves, then by encouraging others or approving of others, or by granting tacit approval in various ways.
The anonymity of the internet means that the id comes out. Yes, extremist voices will always drown out sane and moderate ones, which is why sites need moderation-- but that's also why we need laws and society too. Without them, we revert to nature red in tooth and claw.*

*Hobbseian ref here not Tennyson.

189 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:53:14pm

re: #145 SixDegrees

It IS a cross section of some people's views. That shouldn't be debatable.

Obama himself said there are some people who voted for him because he's Black and others against him because he's Black, but the majority because they agree with him. That is true. He can't erase racism, but he doesn't focus on it.

I've met an abundance of people who harbor racist views. I've been told to my face by people with full knowledge of my Judaism, "I got Jew'd down today at the market." Where does that come from? I don't think they are personally trying to insult me. But somewhere in their experience they let anti-Semitic speech become a part of their everyday thought process. It's ignorance, but it's these people that are maybe the most frightening. How far over the line will they go? How big a mob is needed to carry them?

It also discourages people from trying to get along with their fellow Americans despite inner prejudice they may harbor.

190 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:53:54pm

re: #188 iceweasel

See: That Harvard torture test

191 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:54:29pm

re: #161 Olsonist

Well, do you think Las Cruces should be renamed?

SMACK!

192 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:55:09pm

re: #189 marjoriemoon

It IS a cross section of some people's views. That shouldn't be debatable.

Emphasis mine. Thanks for agreeing with my central point - that the Internet only represents some people.

193 The Left  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:55:21pm

re: #190 windsagio

See: That Harvard torture test

The Milgram Experiment. Yes. Amongst others. Hell, look at the Stanford Prison Experiment too.

194 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:56:07pm

re: #150 Locker

Well, they are a representative subset. They represent people who own computers with internet access who chose to put out some sort of content. Just as any phone poll is a representative subset of folks who own phones, are willing to answer them and are willing to respond to a survey.

Those are in no way similar populations. Randomness is next to Godliness in statistical sampling, and 'internet access who choose to put out some sort of content' is in no way a random sample of the population. Six is right on here.

195 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:56:45pm

re: #186 SixDegrees

Not according to the Wiki article I cited, or several other references.

But like I said - never mind. It's become far more important for participants to simply rag on one another than engage in any sort of factual discussion.

Or, more properly, two separate monoscussions.

No, I'm interested in the accuracy. That's why I pointed out that Steve didn't say "law enforcement officer" he said "law enforcement". I think it's reasonable that all prosecutors are involved in the law enforcement. Also, the wikipedia definitions linked above for AG & State AG both cite the position as a "law enforcement officer". I love semantics so am happy to engage in a discussion of the terms and hopefully you didn't feel that I was making any ad hominem towards you because of your point above!

196 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:57:01pm

re: #193 iceweasel

hehe thanks, its hard to look up without remembering the name :)

PS: Sorry to any Ivy leaguers out there, I guess it was Yale >

197 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:57:12pm

re: #188 iceweasel

Well, quite a few political philosophers would disagree with you. So would a few historians. Sadly, what history shows us is that many, if not most, so called 'ordinary people' are only too willing to go along with perfectly evil actions. If not by performing them themselves, then by encouraging others or approving of others, or by granting tacit approval in various ways.
The anonymity of the internet means that the id comes out. Yes, extremist voices will always drown out sane and moderate ones, which is why sites need moderation-- but that's also why we need laws and society too. Without them, we revert to nature red in tooth and claw.*

*Hobbseian ref here not Tennyson.

But we don't have censorship laws like certain countries in Europe, nor do we need to do so. They do, however. And may there never come a time that we are forced to.

It's no surprise that with the election of the first Black president that the racists should crawl out of the woodwork. Other than keeping an eye on them, I don't think there's much else we should be doing.

198 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:57:21pm

HA: you can't escape a police package Dodge Charger, especially if you are dragging a Coke machine --

199 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:57:57pm

re: #192 SixDegrees

Emphasis mine. Thanks for agreeing with my central point - that the Internet only represents some people.

Well yes, not everyone is a racist :)

200 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:59:04pm

AG of AZ

The Attorney General serves as the chief legal officer of the State. The Attorney General is mandated by our constitution and elected to a four-year term by the people of Arizona.

The Attorney General’s Office represents and provides legal advice to most State agencies; enforces consumer protection and civil rights laws; and prosecutes criminals charged with complex financial crimes and conspiracies involving illegal drugs. In addition, all appeals statewide from felony convictions are handled by this Office.

Still looking for the Gov of AZ page.

201 yael  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:00:20pm

re: #188 iceweasel

Point taken. Certainly history has many examples of the best and worst of human conduct, and shows why your emphasis on the value of sanctions by law and society to discourage the worst and support the best is so important, not just for designated authority but for us ordinary people in our daily lives.

202 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:01:09pm

re: #192 SixDegrees

The government seems happy to use the 'net as a representative sample.

And I think it actually is. Internet use doesn't filter for ideology. The only people that seem to be really underrepresented are the old.

203 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:01:33pm

Holy Schnikeis

An innocuous statement by Albusteve that HE doesn't think Napolitano is A) qaulfied and B) a hack has everyone running to find out what the definition of IS is !!

204 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:02:08pm

Btw: if you haven't watched this Berkman Lecture about what's really happening on teh innernets you don't understand what's really going on. He speaks specifically about work, but think about mechanical turkers and subvert.com'ers used in politcal forums....

205 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:03:08pm

re: #203 sattv4u2

'an innocent statement?'

I had tried to back out of that discussion, but please.


It was an outright partisan lie. One which he still won't own up to, and which you seem perfectly willing to support!

206 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:04:23pm

re: #203 sattv4u2

Holy Schnikeis

An innocuous statement by Albusteve that HE doesn't think Napolitano is A) qaulfied and B) a hack has everyone running to find out what the definition of IS is !!

I know, it's insane. A guy on a discussion forum makes a statement that other people want to discuss and he doesn't want to participate! Those people are just crazy with their "interest in the subject" and "desire for accuracy" and "curiosity about things".

Oh please...

207 The Left  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:05:34pm

re: #197 marjoriemoon


It's no surprise that with the election of the first Black president that the racists should crawl out of the woodwork. Other than keeping an eye on them, I don't think there's much else we should be doing.

Exactly. And I expected that racism would be crawling out of the woodwork with his election. The outpouring of it though-- the extent to which it's everywhere -- still stuns me.
I read someone before the election who said that Obama's election wouldn't signal the end of racism in America, nor the arrival of the post-racial society-- but that it would be the beginning of the post-racial society.
I think that's true. In many ways I look at the reaction as a boil being lanced or some other icky metaphor. We're seeing all this pus coming to the surface and then pouring out, but I think it's the end of the illness.

Or so I hope. Though I'd feel a lot more confident about that if the GOP weren't going out of its way to pander to various racists and hatemongers right now.

208 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:06:03pm

re: #188 iceweasel

Hope you're enjoying your honeymoon btw :)

209 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:06:25pm

re: #205 windsagio

'an innocent statement?'

I had tried to back out of that discussion, but please.

It was an outright partisan lie. One which he still won't own up to, and which you seem perfectly willing to support!

I don't think so. I think he just didn't realize she had a career in the law before she was governor. Partisan? Probably... lie? Probably not...

210 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:06:26pm

re: #162 SixDegrees

FWIW, judges, attorneys and AGs are not technically law enforcement officers in the US or several other countries.

So according to your criteria, Fish and game wardens as Law Enforcement Officers would be more qualified than Janet Napalitano as a mere AG and GOV? I feel safer already.

211 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:06:29pm

re: #182 windsagio

Its not about 'getting a lick in'. I'd like to think that this is a place where that kind of lying bullcrap wasn't acceptable. If I were to make a statement like that, I'd get raked over the coals (god knows its' happened), but I'd also own up and apologize (which has also happened).

If people are allowed to make totally untrue partisan comments like that and don't have to defend them, it degrades the quality of the blog in general.

It absolutely is about getting a lick in and the record shows it: statement made, retort posted, original poster did not seem to want to continue the dialog after contrary evidence was posted. If you're waiting for an apology from Steve, good luck, however I think it's silly to pile on. That's not what this place is about. The good things that this place is about happened in the first few posts between original actors, everything after that is the real 'bullcrap.'

There was seemingly a factually incorrect assertion but I fail to see how it was lie.

212 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:07:08pm

re: #188 iceweasel

what history shows us is that many, if not most, so called 'ordinary people' are only too willing to go along with perfectly evil actions

Sorry ,, but I keep coming back to this statement. I have to disagree. I don't think, for instance, that many nor most "ordinary people", Chinese citizens, lets say, were and are willing to go along with their gov'ts perfectly evil actions. I think they are just powerless to do anything about it

Same for Iranians, North Koreans, etc. And if a USA leader were to do something "perfectly evil " he would have little to no support (Hello, Mr Nixon)

Does eveil exist? Of course!
Do some people support it? Absolutely

"many, if not most"

Sorry ,, no !

213 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:08:32pm

re: #205 windsagio

'an innocent statement?'

I had tried to back out of that discussion, but please.


It was an outright partisan lie. One which he still won't own up to, and which you seem perfectly willing to support!

Get the bile out of your eye

I didn't say INNOCENT, I said INNOCUOUS

HE stated an OPINION

214 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:08:43pm

re: #210 Olsonist

So according to your criteria, Fish and game wardens as Law Enforcement Officers would be more qualified than Janet Napalitano as a mere AG and GOV? I feel safer already.

Hang on - I have to defend SixDegress here. Six wasn't saying that these were his (hers? sorry Six, I don't know!) criteria, merely was providing clarification about the term "law enforcement officer". That being said, "officer" wasn't part of Steve's statement - he said "background in law enforcement".

215 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:09:02pm

re: #183 SixDegrees

I'm not trying to defend anything at all. Just pointing out that people are quickly losing track of what they're even talking about.

Never mind. The discussion has already descended to the ad hominem level, so actual, rigorous definitions aren't really required anymore.

Exactly. The original incident concluded but the evolution of it is driven by other dynamics: the kind most of us seem to abhor.

216 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:09:43pm

re: #205 windsagio

'an innocent statement?'

I had tried to back out of that discussion, but please.

It was an outright partisan lie. One which he still won't own up to, and which you seem perfectly willing to support!

It's not really that bad. Many, many, don't define 'hack' tightly. Applied to members of the other party, 'hack' really means "Appointee who just made did or said something I strongly disliked that I think is a mistake." When I use it to refer to a Republican, I can always explain why that person is hack, but when I apply it to a Democrat my main objective is normally a partisan attack rather than real analysis.

217 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:10:09pm

re: #211 BigPapa

There was seemingly a factually incorrect assertion but I fail to see how it was lie.

Exactly my point in #209.

218 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:10:58pm

re: #202 windsagio

The government seems happy to use the 'net as a representative sample.

And I think it actually is. Internet use doesn't filter for ideology. The only people that seem to be really underrepresented are the old.

Let me say this a second time. Internet users who comment on select blogs are as poor of a random sample as i can think of. This influenza study used internet users as a random sample. If they used internet users who had visited WebMD, it'd have been tremendously skewed because the sample would have been heavily biased...just like sampling internet users who comment on political blogs is heavily biased.

219 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:12:07pm

re: #213 sattv4u2

Get the bile out of your eye

I didn't say INNOCENT, I said INNOCUOUS

HE stated an OPINION

Hand on Satt - that's not accurate. He stated a fact, followed by an opinion. The fact was what I objected to. His #114:

"she has no experience in law enforcement, international law or security...she is the wrong person for the job"

She has experience in law enforcement.

220 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:12:36pm

re: #214 Cineaste

Yes, I know I was having a little fun overstating and perhaps mis-characterizing his point. But I think we've over-proven the case that Napolitano has law enforcement experience.

221 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:13:39pm

re: #219 Cineaste

HANG not "hand"

PIMF!

222 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:14:00pm

re: #220 Olsonist

Yes, I know I was having a little fun overstating and perhaps mis-characterizing his point. But I think we've over-proven the case that Napolitano has law enforcement experience.

Which makes her comment worse, right? A dumb comment seems dumber when the person who made it ought to know better...

223 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:14:05pm

For the record I think Janet Napolitano qualified on paper, and by experience, but her deer in the headlights appearance after the terror event doesn't inspire high confidence. You can expect a lot of incoming at her the next few weeks since she displayed that weakness.

224 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:14:18pm

re: #220 Olsonist

Yes, I know I was having a little fun overstating and perhaps mis-characterizing his point. But I think we've over-proven the case that Napolitano has law enforcement experience.

Granted.

225 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:14:22pm

re: #211 BigPapa

... and others are quibbling eh?

I guess you could argue that he really does believe that she was an 'unqualified political hack', and then yes, it wouldn't be a lie.

That being said, it was still blatantly untrue, and he doesn't have the cojones to own up to it.

re: #213 sattv4u2

changing 'innocent' to 'innocuous' doesn't change the thrust of your post, or my response. It was blatantly untrue, and in no way meaningful or helpful. Whats more he (and his apologists) think that throwing that kind of thing out is okay, and doesn't have to be corrected. It only became an issue of argument when he decided to be belligerent and defiant about it.

It shouldn't be that way!

Didn't we learn from Clinton that accountability was important, no matter what?

226 Cineaste  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:15:41pm

re: #223 Thanos

For the record I think Janet Napolitano qualified on paper, and by experience, but her deer in the headlights appearance after the terror event doesn't inspire high confidence. You can expect a lot of incoming at her the next few weeks since she displayed that weakness.

Totally legitimate. I think her comments on sunday were dunderheaded to be sure. It was being misconstrued slightly but the phrase "the system worked" should never have come out of her mouth in regards to anything that happened on December 25th.

227 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:16:05pm

re: #222 Aceofwhat?

Which makes her comment worse, right? A dumb comment seems dumber when the person who made it ought to know better...

I don't quite follow you. How does my little rhetorical flourish have anything to do with her (Janet Napolitano)?

228 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:17:30pm

And thats my whole point of contention. If someone is wrong, and is shown to be wrong, the proper response is to say 'oh, I didn't know that'. Not covering your ears and going 'lalalalalalala'... and certainly not outright denying the facts when presented with them.

Whats more, if people aren't held accountable for that kind of behavior, than it becomes acceptable for them to act that way.... Which like I said above degrades the quality of the whole site.

If we just let 'em get away with that (whether because we like them, or they're a member of our tribe, or we just don't want to make waves) we make the whole situation worse.

229 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:17:32pm

re: #223 Thanos

For the record I think Janet Napolitano qualified on paper, and by experience, but her deer in the headlights appearance after the terror event doesn't inspire high confidence. You can expect a lot of incoming at her the next few weeks since she displayed that weakness.

Agreed. Her detractor smell blood and they'll come at her all the harder. I honestly hope they succeed. Forcing out a Cabinet Secretary would deal President Obama a heavy blow. I don't think it'll work, but I hope it does.

230 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:18:00pm

re: #219 Cineaste

She has experience in law enforcement.


re: #219 Cineaste

And I would counter that when many people think LAW ENFORCEMENT they are NOT talking about lawyers, AGs, prosecutors, court stenographers, judges, etc

They (as do I) think of COPS ,,, Staties ,,,, FBI ,, etc.

As for "international law"? A state AG? I don't think so. "Security", again not likely on the state level, Thats more the perviwe of the state police, etc

231 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:18:20pm

re: #227 Olsonist

I don't quite follow you. How does my little rhetorical flourish have anything to do with her (Janet Napolitano)?

We've agreed that she does indeed have law enforcement experience...which makes her handling of the situation seem even clumsier, imho, since we can't simply say 'oh, she's just too inexperienced to have done better'.

make sense?

232 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:21:32pm

re: #231 Aceofwhat?

That is an interesting question actually;

What was she thinking when she said that?

233 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:22:53pm

re: #231 Aceofwhat?

Ok, I can follow through that. Sometimes it's a little difficult to follow the flow of several people.

I basically think that too much is being made of too little. Was Dana Perino better in front of a TV camera? Yes. Would I want her running the TSA? No.

234 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:23:38pm

AND ,, to my #230

Dictionary .com SYNONYMS for LAW ENFORCEMENT

[Link: thesaurus.reference.com...]

I didn't see any AG's, state of federal, on the list!

235 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:26:34pm

re: #225 windsagio


That being said, it was still blatantly untrue, and he doesn't have the cojones to own up to it.

Fair enough. If 'not having cojones' is fact then further efforts of pursuit to drive the point home are unnecessary, no? The skirmish was over quite quickly and very concisely, the dogged pursuit which seemed colored by ideology (both his and yours) is what my real issue was.

236 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:29:15pm

re: #234 sattv4u2

AND ,, to my #230

Dictionary .com SYNONYMS for LAW ENFORCEMENT

[Link: thesaurus.reference.com...]

I didn't see any AG's, state of federal, on the list!

The Attorney General of the United States

The Judiciary Act of 1789 created the Office of the Attorney General which evolved over the years into the head of the Department of Justice and chief law enforcement officer of the Federal Government.

237 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:30:42pm

re: #235 BigPapa

See my post at #228. I think it makes the argument of why it has to be pursued pretty well.

238 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:31:36pm

re: #228 windsagio

And thats my whole point of contention. If someone is wrong, and is shown to be wrong, the proper response is to say 'oh, I didn't know that'. Not covering your ears and going 'lalalalalalala'... and certainly not outright denying the facts when presented with them.

Whats more, if people aren't held accountable for that kind of behavior, than it becomes acceptable for them to act that way... Which like I said above degrades the quality of the whole site.

If we just let 'em get away with that (whether because we like them, or they're a member of our tribe, or we just don't want to make waves) we make the whole situation worse.

If somebody is covering their ears and going 'la la la la la' then the reasons are self evident. Steve was held accountable for his statements, good job, that's what good about the site.

Further pursuing somebody who backs off or says 'la la la la' with quality facts and further retort, no matter how right and virtuous you are, does not improve the quality of the site. My contention is that what makes the site worse, like many of the others.

Statement made, smacked down, beauty. The further scrum was 'making the situation worse.'

239 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:32:33pm

re: #236 Olsonist

I understand that, but my point still stands
Walk up to anyone on the street and ask them what do they think of when you say Law Enforcement. I would venture a guess that 9 out of 10 would say some type of POLICE, State, local, FBI

I would also venture a guess that NON of those 9 would include the Office of the Attorney General

240 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:33:38pm

re: #238 BigPapa

oh sorry, you did reply to it ;)


Lets leave it at this; I disagree with that point strongly. The only way to get people to actually change their behavior is to make them own up to it.

On the other hand, this is the internet, so I might be barking up a dead bear's ass.

241 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:34:23pm

and with that, looks like I'm missing kickoff; I shall see you folks later >

242 Kronocide  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:39:07pm

re: #240 windsagio

oh sorry, you did reply to it ;)

Lets leave it at this; I disagree with that point strongly. The only way to get people to actually change their behavior is to make them own up to it.

On the other hand, this is the internet, so I might be barking up a dead bear's ass.

You might be. If you define 'owning up to it' in broad terms and acknowledge the fact that there are many dead bear's asses on the innertubes, and know albusteve, then leaving it at this is probably the best choice. Focus your energies on higher value targets.

I think we've concluded, so feel free to have the last word. .

243 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:41:25pm

Gentle folk, I have a game to go watch.

244 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:43:48pm

re: #125 Charles

The comment was posted before the NW 253 terrorist's Al Qaeda ties were confirmed, and I commented that at that point, it didn't seem like an Al Qaeda attack.

Yes, and The Right Wing News post was on Dec 30, four days after you had already posted a story about it being Al-Qaeda and a bomb (see below)
"So it was indeed a bomb..." - C.J.

And the news story you posted has the phrase "was organized and launched by al Qaeda leaders in Yemen".

Moreover, there was a who-what-and-why discussion following your voicing doubt as to what was being reported. Noteworthy are two postings

#16 SixDegrees

There's still a dearth of information, and there are a lot of things being reported that simply don't make a lot of sense, period. I'm still sort of waiting for rational reporting to prevail, but that'll probably take another few days.

BlueHeron #241

Nonetheless, aQ is a very specific, particular organization with a number of unique traits. That's what Charles was referring to. Nowhere did he suggest that there was any sort of hoax occurring.

My point - other than rejecting the scorner's claim - is a revulsion against dishonesty in discourse.

245 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:45:27pm

I think I need learn how to present better. My post above may seem ambiguou though it is meant to support Charles.

246 The Left  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:50:45pm

re: #208 marjoriemoon

Hope you're enjoying your honeymoon btw :)

Hey mm!
Sadly, the honeymoon isn't til spring. Jimmah is back in Scotland and I'm waiting for my visa, for which I have to stay in the US. :(
Thanks for the good wishes though!

247 Aye Pod  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 1:59:49pm

re: #168 bloodnok

He doesn't. He (and others) just stir shit. It's tiresome.

Then there are other people who don't have the guts to address you directly, but instead just follow you around downdinging you for months and months, usually waiting till you've logged out before doing so. Isn't that right, Bloodnok?

248 Bloodnok  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 2:19:36pm

re: #247 Jimmah

Then there are other people who don't have the guts to address you directly, but instead just follow you around downdinging you for months and months, usually waiting till you've logged out before doing so. Isn't that right, Bloodnok?

Someone's paranoid.

Just another Jimmah "end of thread fight pick" specials.

GAZE

249 grinchy  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 6:22:34am

It seems unlikely that another Bertha Lewis was at the white house for an extended time, it's not a very common name.

It seems as likely if not more so that the middle name is different for one reason (maiden name, perhaps)?
[Link: www.politico.com...]

Which is more likely, the administration lied (again), or there are so many Bertha Lewis people stopping by the white house for week-long tours?
[Link: www.politico.com...]

I don't see where her middle name was confirmed anywhere, and it may not matter, it may be a convenient excuse. We shouldn't pretend an administration hiring so many lobbyists and changing the rules for them and violating the emolument clause (at least) of the constitution is going to be honest.
Raw data:
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

12/30/2009 LEWIS BERTHA E VA 2009-09-02 18:29:00 2009-09-05 12:30:00 2009-09-05 23:59:00 0000-00-00 00:00:00 0000-00-00 00:00:00 2009-09-04 19:08:00 166 OFFICE VISITORS WH RESIDENCE OFFICE VISITORS RESIDENCE MERGE TO U34505
12/30/2009 LEWIS BERTHA E VA 2009-09-04 19:03:00 2009-09-05 10:00:00 2009-09-05 23:59:00 0000-00-00 00:00:00 0000-00-00 00:00:00 0000-00-00 00:00:00 1091 OFFICE VISITORS WH RESIDENCE OFFICE VISITORS STAFF TOUR

-grinchy

P.S. reference on the ineligibility clause:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
In late 2008, the question was raised whether the clause would apply to the appointment of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton as Secretary of State. Subsequently, Congress reset the pay for the position to its level prior to Senator Clinton's election to the Senate.[14]

250 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 6:25:04am

It's not a matter of interpretation, paranoid or otherwise, bloodnok, but a matter of FACT, that you have never addressed me directly to disagree with me on anything - but have instead followed me around downdinging me and updinging anyone who was in disagreement with me - and almost always waiting till I'm logged out before doing so. This has been going on for months - as you know.

My advice you to is to stop it.

251 bloodnok  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:05:05am

re: #250 Jimmah

but a matter of FACT, that you have never addressed me directly

Quoted for truth.

If you don't want to be downdinged for acting like an asshole (*) then just stop acting like an asshole.

Now please go away. There are plenty more dead threads to pick fights on and plenty of people who actually care what you have to say. I'm not one of them.

(*) -Continuing to spoil for a fight on a dead thread with someone who is trying to GAZE you would certainly qualify.

252 Sue62  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:07:47pm

Let's be right and fair folks otherwise it's just hatemongering....on the Big Government article in the last paragraph is clearly shows that it "may not be Bertha E. Lewis"......if we all stay honest this would be a great thing for the coming year!!

253 erraticsphinx  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:10:06pm

re: #252 Sue62

Yeah, it would be honest of you to give us the whole sentence. The end wasn't a disclaimer AT ALL.

254 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:30:07pm

re: #249 grinchy

This is such a pile of crap, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Yes, it HAS been confirmed that this was not the CEO of ACORN. You could try actually clicking the link in my post:

[Link: cityfile.com...]

And it has also been confirmed by an administration official, as reported by Ben Smith at Politico:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

255 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 5:55:38pm

re: #251 bloodnok

Quoted for truth.

If you don't want to be downdinged for acting like an asshole (*) then just stop acting like an asshole.

Now please go away. There are plenty more dead threads to pick fights on and plenty of people who actually care what you have to say. I'm not one of them.

(*) -Continuing to spoil for a fight on a dead thread with someone who is trying to GAZE you would certainly qualify.

Sorry Bloodnok, but you are the one who has been acting like as asshole with your chronic sneaky downdinging.

If you want to dispute any of my comments, by all means dispute them (at least occasionally). Otherwise GAZE away, but make sure your ding finger gets the message too.

256 bloodnok  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:10:59pm

re: #255 Jimmah

Sorry, Jimmah, but I don't answer to you. I will ding whatever comment I want whenever the hell I want for whatever reason I may have. You don't write the rules dictating how and when the ding feature is to be used.

Continue to whine about it if you must. Invent more smears. Go all out. After all, your new "thing" is to paint everyone who sees your poor behavior for what it is and downdings you as obsessively attacking you (by using features Charles has installed for us to use in part to self police bad behavior). The only repetitive thing going on is your tendency to get into the smear and flame wars that lead to these dings.

Enough of this. I can't believe the topic of dings is even being discussed. You are embarrassing yourself. I'll not be a part of your ego driven snit fits. Out of respect for Charles and the blog and in order to spare the readership of further displays of downding butthurt I will drop this subject. The blog does not need arguments like this.

257 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 10:58:00pm

re: #256 bloodnok

Features that Charles installed can be used and abused. I called you out for doing the latter.

And I don't mind getting downdinged - I'm perfectly used to it as my history at LGF easily attests to - as long as it isn't part of a sneaky, cowardly campaign that has an entirely personal motivation.

It's pretty obvious who is butthurt, losing it, and going all out btw, and it isn't me. I am just respectfully requesting that you stop acting like a complete tosser. If you continue, I will keep calling you out.

I've told you what you need to do to avoid discussions like this one in future - it's entirely up to you.

258 The Left  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:18:47pm

I just dinged Jimmah and I loved it.

259 amrafel  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 11:21:55pm

BigGovernment insinuates that the initial "E" stands for Evans. Evans is a former husband of Bertha M. Lewis.


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