‘Is This Racist, Charles Johnson?’

Weird • Views: 5,060

Looks like my post about the Photoshopped image of Barack Obama shining Sarah Palin’s shoes hit a nerve in the wingnut universe, because someone has actually spent time on New Year’s Day to create another version of the picture, pasting my head on the shoe shine boy’s body:

The caption asks: “Is this racist, Charles Johnson?”

Well, no, it isn’t — it’s just stupid. It apparently escaped this wingnut’s notice that I’m white. So the racist context of portraying a black man as a shoe shine boy isn’t really there, is it?

A textbook example of being “unclear on the concept.”

They’re awfully touchy about the racism issue, aren’t they?

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849 comments
1 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:33:06pm

And haters keep on hatin', while Charles keeps on after them. You're great Charles; When they scream, you know you're getting to them.

2 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:33:56pm

I'd do that.

3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:34:21pm

Funny. I never saw the original.

4 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:37:11pm

Denial is tough~

Its gotta be hard to feel a certain way but also to know its not acceptable. I think alot of them really tell themselves that they're not really racist, which of course makes them resent any evidence...

5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:38:58pm

The photoshop of Charles appears to be more to scale and accurate. Obama's head is way to small in the other one.

They're still butt-holes, but...

6 political lunatic  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:40:08pm

Why are you relevant to these "people" again other than not thinking exactly like they do?

7 Jaerik  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:40:24pm

re: #4 windsagio

I think alot of them really tell themselves that they're not really racist, which of course makes them resent any evidence...

A lot of times, I find them using the same argument as they do against gay people.

"I have nothing against gays, I just hate the part that makes them gay."

8 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:40:35pm

Friends of RSM with too much time on their hands

9 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:40:47pm

re: #7 Jaerik

"Some of my best friends are Gay!"

10 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:40:55pm

You can look up her skirt!

11 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:42:12pm

I saw that handle while cruising some of the sewers earlier. "Bigfurhat" .... maybe it was at the Harpie's site, I can't remember. I'll see if I can find the reference.

12 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:42:48pm

re: #10 Mad Al-Jaffee

You can look up her skirt!

SMACK!

13 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:44:59pm

I gotta' tell you, Charles, that her legs are better looking than yours when you're Eva Braun.

14 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:46:51pm

re: #13 MandyManners

I gotta' tell you, Charles, that her legs are better looking than yours when you're Eva Braun.

Wow, Mandy just took us all to a weird place.

15 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:47:10pm

With the reddish complexion and pony tail I think it looks racist against Native Americans.

Is Charles from the Lizard Tribe?

16 webevintage  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:48:47pm

Some folks have waaaayyyy to much time on their hands....

17 political lunatic  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:48:55pm

re: #15 Mad Al-Jaffee

He's the head chief of the Lizard tribe. Where have you been? :)

18 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:49:05pm

This is the whole "it's only racist if you bring race into it!" defense, in which there is no racism as long as no one acknowledges the racism.

I've never been sure how a strategy of willfull stupidity, like this photoshopper, is supposed to impress people.

19 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:50:25pm

BTW, who sent this to the 73-year-old DEMOCRAT who works for CDOT?

20 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:50:31pm

re: #18 obdicut

I think the argument "we're too stupid to be racists" fails the test of history.

21 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:51:05pm

Meanwhile, Patterico is actually trying to argue that the original picture of Obama shining Palin's shoes has nothing to do with the right wing.

22 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:52:12pm

re: #14 acwgusa

Wow, Mandy just took us all to a weird place.

Yeah, I just flashed back to that AIDS awareness PSA commercial starring Hitler.

23 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:52:19pm

re: #21 Charles

Meanwhile, Patterico is actually trying to argue that the original picture of Obama shining Palin's shoes has nothing to do with the right wing.

Have these people never spent one day on Planet Earth?

24 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:53:17pm

Nil carborundum illegitimi, Charles.

25 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:54:51pm

re: #24 The Sanity Inspector

Nil carborundum illegitimi, Charles.

I just laugh. The people who do this kind of stuff are utter morons.

27 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:55:43pm

re: #4 windsagio

Denial is tough~

Its gotta be hard to feel a certain way but also to know its not acceptable. I think alot of them really tell themselves that they're not really racist, which of course makes them resent any evidence...

Being forced to look in the mirror while holding irrational beliefs is rather unpleasant to some.

28 lucky dog  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:55:47pm

Seriously now folks, would it be racist to have George W. shining Obama's shoes?

29 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:55:59pm

Some background for the cognitively challenged about blacks and shoe shining.

Washington Journal; Shoeshine Businessman Standing Tall in Victory

WASHINGTON, April 18— A District of Columbia police officer saw Ego J. Brown shining shoes at his little stand on Connecticut Avenue recently and did not do anything about it. He only called, ''How's business, Ego?'' and waved a greeting.

A few weeks ago the officer could have arrested Mr. Brown under an 85-year-old regulation against bootblack stands on public streets, a remnant of Jim Crow era efforts to restrict entrepreneurial opportunities for blacks.

30 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:56:05pm

You're over the target when you get the most flak.

31 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:56:07pm

re: #21 Charles
Patterico's focusing narrowly on the origin of the picture, rather than how it is being forwarded and used by many right-wing websites, which is where the problem lies.

32 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:56:56pm

Well I found the guy's site, I'd link it but it's honestly too lame. I imagine he thinks he has teh mad photoshop skilz, and he thinks it's a comedy site, but like I said mostly just lameness. You know the kind that makes you groan and get embarrassed because he's a member of your species.

33 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:57:41pm

re: #26 MandyManners

I usually think if this: Get Rhythm

34 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:57:51pm

re: #31 jaunte

Patterico's focusing narrowly on the origin of the picture, rather than how it is being forwarded and used by many right-wing websites, which is where the problem lies.

I noticed that too.

Patterico is also studiously ignoring the many, many, many, many instances of right-wing racism and idiocy that exist.

35 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:58:29pm

re: #28 lucky dog

Seriously now folks, would it be racist to have George W. shining Obama's shoes?

Please see my No. 26.

Also, would it be racist to have a photoshop of Pres. Bush as a dark-skinned medicine ma?

36 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:58:42pm

re: #28 lucky dog

Seriously now folks, would it be racist to have George W. shining Obama's shoes?

If he really wanted to, that would be his business. I don't know what a photoshop of that scene would mean, though. What do you think it would mean?

37 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:58:49pm

Here they come.

38 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:59:01pm
It apparently escaped this wingnut’s notice that I’m white.

I find it interesting that they didn't shop the hands to match the facial complexion. Unless they're implying that you're a chimera, how lazy is that?

39 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:59:07pm

re: #32 Thanos

I didn't look up to confirm, but I believe the original photo taker wrote a disclaimer that they did not do the photoshop. Not sure if that is bigfurhat or not.

40 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 7:59:22pm

I know where else I saw him now, he pimps his swill in #TCOT. He's also fully on board with Hoft on the homophobia and Jennings smear as well.

41 lucky dog  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:00:36pm

re: #36 jaunte

Well, it would certainly be thought provoking! Wouldn't' it?

42 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:00:44pm

re: #33 Mad Al-Jaffee

I usually think if this: Get Rhythm

Oh, beautiful!

43 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:00:47pm

Is it too early in the thread to say that I'm really excited to see what's coming from CES this month? And maybe from Apple at the end of the month?

44 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:00:51pm

re: #28 lucky dog

Seriously now folks, would it be racist to have George W. shining Obama's shoes?

No. It would be racist if it was a picture of Obama shining Bush's shoes.

If you don't understand why you're ignorant: if you do but are acting like it's not an issue than you're obfuscating or in denial.

45 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:00:57pm

re: #41 lucky dog

No, not really. Why do you think it would be?

46 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:01:09pm

Continuing on shoe shining as it relates to Jim Crow laws. Here is is termed "bootblacks" which was the word used in the days of Jim Crow:

A History of Jim Crow In Oklahoma City

1. THE GENERAL BACKGROUND.

This group is general and brief but it sets the issues and tone of things to come. The prevailing attitude of whites around statehood was that the black race was mentally inferior to the whites. The president of the 1906-07 Constitutional Convention, Alfalfa Bill Murray, was reported to have exclaimed during the convention that blacks would always remain bootblacks, barbers, and farmers. Even more graphic were the words of the Daily Oklahoman's Editor, Roy E. Stafford, in 1907, as he lobbied for the adoption of Jim Crow laws in the 1st Oklahoma legislative session after statehood. The full text of his article will be shown below, but, for now, here's a preview:

It was never intended by the Almighty that the races should be placed upon social equality and the foolish ideas that are being placed in the black man's head to the contrary, by designing politicians, bode no good to either race. For the negro is an infant, figuratively, in intellect. His understand of things is easily influenced. He is but so much putty in the hands of greater intelligence and he believes what he is told to believe. His mind is as much a slave to dictations of his superiors as his body was a slave to masters who owned it before the war.

47 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:01:10pm

Whenever Sweet Polly Purebred found herself in a bind, Shoe Shine Boy became the mighty hero Underdog and saved the day.

Mock Shoe Shine Boy at your peril.

48 metrolibertarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:01:26pm

re: #28 lucky dog

Seriously now folks, would it be racist to have George W. shining Obama's shoes?

Please enlighten some of us to the historically racist canard of the white man being submissive to the black man? This image is racist because it implies Barack Obama is nothing but an "n-word" who's only fit to shine the white's shoes.

What a stupid comment. To answer your stupid question: no.

49 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:01:32pm

re: #41 lucky dog

Well that's why I'm asking you what you think it would mean.

50 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:01:38pm

re: #47 negativ

Whenever Sweet Polly Purebred found herself in a bind, Shoe Shine Boy became the mighty hero Underdog and saved the day.


[Video]Mock Shoe Shine Boy at your peril.

Is it ok to mock Fall Out Boy?

51 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:01:38pm

re: #41 lucky dog

Well, it would certainly be thought provoking! Wouldn't' it?

No, not really.

52 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:03:37pm

re: #41 lucky dog

Well, it would certainly be thought provoking! Wouldn't' it?

What thoughts would it provoke? Thoughts of 'WTF does that mean? Hmmm?"

53 lucky dog  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:04:08pm

re: #45 Obdicut

I was trying to intimate that his whole thing is overblown and NOT important at all. Simply a non issue, except for all the hoopla it seems to create!

54 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:04:12pm

re: #50 acwgusa

Only if you have a sufficient supply of Rad-X, Nuka Cola, and lots of Stimpacks.

55 metrolibertarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:04:27pm

re: #50 acwgusa

Is it ok to mock Fall Out Boy?

No. It's required that we liquidate them. Holy crap their music sucks and the lyrics are so fucking stupid they could have originally been a Sarah Palin op-ed.

56 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:04:59pm

re: #15 Mad Al-JaffeeMad-Al, the Bunker book you seek is at UMBC. I hope that helps.

57 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:05:12pm

re: #54 negativ

Only if you have a sufficient supply of Rad-X, Nuka Cola, and lots of Stimpacks.

I know the God Mode code. No problem.

58 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:05:17pm

re: #33 Mad Al-Jaffee

I usually think if this: Get Rhythm

Ry Cooder covered that song...tres cool

59 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:06:14pm

re: #50 acwgusa

Is it ok to mock Fall Out Boy?

Yes, ever since Pete Wentz married Ashlee Simpson.

//

60 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:06:15pm

re: #55 metrolibertarian

No. It's required that we liquidate them. Holy crap their music sucks and the lyrics are so fucking stupid they could have originally been a Sarah Palin op-ed.

Now, now. Tarring Fall Out Boy with the Sarah Palin brush is a low blow. Fall Out Boy aren't quitters.

61 allegro  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:06:25pm

re: #53 lucky dog

I was trying to intimate that his whole thing is overblown and NOT important at all. I'm too stupid and ignorant of history to have a clue.

62 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:07:00pm

re: #36 jaunte

If he really wanted to, that would be his business. I don't know what a photoshop of that scene would mean, though. What do you think it would mean?

That's the point. When it's Bush or Charles photoshopped in, everyone says "Huh?"-- because the image isn't loaded with the same connotations or significance.
Photoshop Obama in, and absolutely everyone knows what it means.
Including the defenders and apologists who try to pretend it really isn't about race at all, or about the right's increasing acceptance of, and comfort with, and excusal of, blatantly racist imagery.

Hey, look over there, it's a racist Democrat everyone! And someone on Kos is being really mean to Rush, you betcha!

(i know you know all this, of course.)

63 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:07:03pm

OT

"Underwear Bomber" sounds like a nickname for an extremely-skilled upskirt camera pervert.

/also good morning.

64 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:07:05pm

March 11, 1866
ON BOOT-BLACKS - by Mark Twain

...Every time I noticed, to-day, that my boots were attracting attention, I went and got them blacked. And I learned something. I learned that a Chinaman has no talent for blacking boots, and makes a miserable job of it. When you desire the services of a real artist, always choose one of the three naturally gifted species of boot-blacks - a freedman, or a colored citizen, or a ni**er. They understand the business.

Yes, Mark Twain used the n-word here.

65 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:07:40pm

re: #54 negativ

Yeesh. I was thinking of VAULT BOY, and now I find out there's a crappy band called "Fallout Boy" instead.

Dear Christ. I think I'm getting to that age where the younger folks start to become completely incomprehensible. DAMMIT!!!

66 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:07:42pm

re: #61 allegro

I was trying to intimate that his whole thing is overblown and NOT important at all. I'm too stupid and ignorant of history to have a clue.

no need to go overboard

67 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:07:47pm

re: #53 lucky dog

I was trying to intimate that his whole thing is overblown and NOT important at all. Simply a non issue, except for all the hoopla it seems to create!

Interesting we have folks coming in here talking about non-issues, "nontroversies" if you will.

There were a couple here the other night.

Now you.

Can you defend that image?

It's vile, and intended to be demeaning.

68 lucky dog  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:08:20pm

re: #61 allegro

Nice! Hope ya feel better!

69 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:09:27pm

re: #64 Gus 802

I hear he also used it in "Huck Finn"

70 allegro  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:09:32pm

re: #66 albusteve

no need to go overboard

I thought I was demonstrating great restraint actually.

71 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:10:02pm

re: #66 albusteve

Hows that going overboard? Color me confused.

72 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:10:29pm

re: #53 lucky dog

I was trying to intimate that his whole thing is overblown and NOT important at all. Simply a non issue, except for all the hoopla it seems to create!

You take no issue whatsoever with our President being defamed by [some] conservatives just because the President is black? Is that what you're saying?

73 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:10:37pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

Yes, ever since Pete Wentz married Ashlee Simpson.

//

I realized that I had heard that they had procreated. Isn't that an indicator of the end of the world?

74 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:11:24pm

re: #64 Gus 802

March 11, 1866
ON BOOT-BLACKS - by Mark Twain

Yes, Mark Twain used the n-word here.

Yes, but he also used it throughout Huck Finn.
Note the way he differentiates three classes of black people as well: "a freedman, or a colored citizen, or a ni**er."

I think he's using the word in a descriptive way-- that is, describing how people spoke and thought at the time -- rather than a prescriptive one.

75 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:12:31pm

re: #67 reine.de.tout

Interesting we have folks coming in here talking about non-issues, "nontroversies" if you will.

There were a couple here the other night.

Now you.

Can you defend that image?

It's vile, and intended to be demeaning.

He knows that. He's deliberately trying to confuse the issue.

I've seen his type many times at LGF before.

76 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:12:34pm

re: #56 Stuart Leviton

Really? Thanks! I'll have to see if my sister in law (who works at UMD) can get it for me. It wasn't in the catalog when I searched for it, but I may have only been looking in the College Park catalog.

77 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:13:22pm

re: #74 iceweasel

(hah beat ya!)

My impression is that its a play on the various ways people saw black people at the time, not saying he makes these differentiations himself... altho', reading it... that might be what you're saying too.

78 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:13:26pm

re: #74 iceweasel

Yes, but he also used it throughout Huck Finn.
Note the way he differentiates three classes of black people as well: "a freedman, or a colored citizen, or a ni**er."

I think he's using the word in a descriptive way-- that is, describing how people spoke and thought at the time -- rather than a prescriptive one.

I know. I was just clarifying my obfuscating with "**". The main point being of the racist nature that surrounded blacks and bootblacking/shoeshining in the previous centuries. However, Twain's observation is racist.

79 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:13:31pm

re: #63 laZardo

OT

"Underwear Bomber" sounds like a nickname for an extremely-skilled upskirt camera pervert.

Or someone whose diet is mainly beans, cabbage and chili dogs.

80 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:13:48pm

I just don't understand how people cannot see the inherent racism here.

81 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:14:14pm

re: #79 Mad Al-Jaffee

Or someone whose diet is mainly beans, cabbage and chili dogs.

"Fire in the HOLE!"

82 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:14:16pm

re: #58 albusteve

Ry Cooder covered that song...tres cool

His cover was the first version I ever heard.

83 Hector1980  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:14:20pm

"BigFurHat"...I've heard that name before. I associate it with unfunnyness.

I don't like to make generalizations, but I have the impressions that conservatives are just not funny. Especially with Photoshop, and they suck at it.

84 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:14:29pm

re: #80 MandyManners

Teh stupid, it hurts!

85 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:14:29pm

re: #80 MandyManners

I just don't understand how people cannot see the inherent racism here.

Were they born and raised in a bubble?

86 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:15:04pm

re: #84 Floral Giraffe

Teh stupid, it hurts!

Unfortunately, it doesn't, or there would be a lot less of it.

87 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:15:07pm

re: #80 MandyManners

I just don't understand how people cannot see the inherent racism here.

they can, but they also condone it and want to inflame the boaerd by playing stupid...don't fall for it

88 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:15:09pm

re: #78 Gus 802

Back in Twain's day, it wasn't so much a question of "are you racist?" but "how successfully do you rise above racism?"

I actually think that Huck Finn is a wonderful book to teach against racism, because it shows the position of an intelligent and worthy black man in the society of that time. I love Jim's answer to the question of Solomon, because it's much, much wiser than Solomon's answer.

89 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:15:17pm

re: #85 MandyManners

I think they can see it, they just want to pretend they aren't furthering it.

90 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:15:19pm

re: #80 MandyManners

they have a vested interest in not seeing it... They thought it was funny, and that must mean... ohmygod...

91 lucky dog  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:15:37pm

re: #72 eclectic infidel

re: #72 eclectic infidel

No, I seriously believe that there are a helluva lot of other much more meaningful issues than this. I think it is trivial that someone posted a picture of Obama shining Palin's shoe. In other words' so fucking what!

Oh, and I don't like racism any more than you!

92 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:15:42pm

I *might* give a pass to someone born in 1980 and raised in really utopian community.

93 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:16:08pm

re: #88 Obdicut

Back in Twain's day, it wasn't so much a question of "are you racist?" but "how successfully do you rise above racism?"

I actually think that Huck Finn is a wonderful book to teach against racism, because it shows the position of an intelligent and worthy black man in the society of that time. I love Jim's answer to the question of Solomon, because it's much, much wiser than Solomon's answer.

OK I don't want to make this about Mark Twain. :)

94 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:16:12pm

re: #87 albusteve

they can, but they also condone it and want to inflame the boaerd by playing stupid...don't fall for it

Like I would fall for this shit no matter what?

95 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:16:27pm

re: #93 Gus 802

oh man, I do. I could have that conversation for hours!

96 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:16:51pm

re: #82 Mad Al-Jaffee

His cover was the first version I ever heard.

I can't find it but it's a rollicking good time cover...I thought I saw it the other night at youtube

97 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:17:22pm

re: #79 Mad Al-Jaffee

My grandmother used to concoct a permutation of sauerkraut that, if it were made today, would probably result in helicopters and guys in hazmat suits.

98 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:17:26pm

Speaking of shoe-shine boys, I gotta' get The Kid to bed.

99 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:17:38pm

re: #93 Gus 802


I would just like to note that at the age of twelve I won a pie-eating contest at the Mark Twain house in Connecticut without actually knowing it was a contest.

Won free tickets to a stage production of Huck Finn, too, and it was an amazing performance.

100 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:18:36pm

re: #97 negativ

My grandmother used to concoct a permutation of sauerkraut that, if it were made today, would probably result in helicopters and guys in hazmat suits.

I had a co-worker make the hottest hot sauce ever. I was sick for two days afterward. I asked her for more when I got back.

101 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:19:11pm

More historical context.

Africana Studies Department History

...During the California Gold Rush, Blacks found themselves in California but outside of the gold rush economy and confined to domestic work, and to jobs as janitors, truck drivers, and bootblacks. By the 1870s, Blacks had secured an economic foothold in the hotel and restaurant industry in San Francisco. In the 1870s white hotel workers in San Francisco threatened to strike unless all Blacks were fired from their jobs in that industry. The hotel owners fired all of their Black employees, and it would not be until 1963 that Blacks would organize a jobs campaign in the hotel and restaurant industry during the San Francisco Civil Rights Movement, to secure jobs for Blacks lost in the 1870s.

...

With the end of World War II, Blacks in San Francisco lost most of the jobs they held during the War. Shipyard jobs evaporated, and whites returning from the war replaced Blacks in many other jobs, leading to the Black unemployment rate rising to 30%. Once again Blacks were confined to nineteenth-century occupations as domestics, bootblacks, postal workers, longshoremen, and a few streetcar drivers. With the exception of ILWU (International Longshoremen and Warehousemen Union) jobs, union jobs were closed to Blacks, and Blacks and people of color were invisible in the downtown economy. In the area of housing, as many as nine, ten, and fifteen people were crowded into a single room.

102 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:21:52pm

re: #78 Gus 802

I know. I was just clarifying my obfuscating with "**". The main point being of the racist nature that surrounded blacks and bootblacking/shoeshining in the previous centuries. However, Twain's observation is racist.

Hard to say, really. Twain wrote Huck Finn, which is most certainly not racist. And there's a problem with applying our standards to people of other times.

Looking at the classes again, he separates freedmen from 'coloured citizens' and them both from n****s. In other words, it looks like the N word is synonymous with slave at the time he's writing. (Which is another reason why that specific word is so horribly offensive now. )

But obviously his observation that black people are specially suited for and excel at a kind of menial labour IS racist, which is your point, and it's a connotation and association that's been around for over a hundred years now, as you've shown.
Not really disagreeing with you, just being pedantic and longwinded. I'd like to blame the booze, but sadly I'm guilty of both when sober. :)

103 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:22:07pm

Interlibrary loan will do the trick.
Bunker, Edward, No Beast So Fierce

104 wee fury  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:23:14pm

I've been in Mark Twain's home.
So there.

105 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:23:24pm

re: #73 acwgusa

I realized that I had heard that they had procreated. Isn't that an indicator of the end of the world?

Not really, though their son has a really weird name. Bronx Mowgli, no less.

106 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:23:38pm

re: #101 Gus 802

Hunters Point has never recovered from the blacks being fired en masse after WWII.

Taking someone's job away is a really low thing to do.

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:23:44pm

re: #104 wee fury

I've been in Mark Twain's home.
So there.

Was he a good host?

/just asking.

108 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:23:46pm

re: #92 MandyManners

I *might* give a pass to someone born in 1980 and raised in really utopian community.

Napa Valley? The hoopster was raised in Napa Valley...I have a million stories.. utopian communities? Please!

109 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:24:29pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Not really, though their son has a really weird name. Bronx Mowgli, no less.

Poor kid. He's going to get his butt kicked no matter what schools he goes to.

110 wee fury  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:24:46pm

re: #107 EmmmieG

Was he a good host?

/just asking.

Rather . . . deadpan . . . I'd say.
/

111 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:25:27pm

So in a nutshell. Bootblacking or shoe shining represented the socioeconomic repression of African-Americans by being one of the few limited vocations available to them because of widespread racism and was also codified in Jim Crow laws.

112 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:25:35pm

re: #91 lucky dog

re: #72 eclectic infidel

No, I seriously believe that there are a helluva lot of other much more meaningful issues than this.

Yeah, I'll sure we all look forward to posting on your blog, where you can post about all the issues that matter so very much more to you, such as "Why is Charles spending so much time posting about X???"

And you and three other compulsive butthurt fappers can spend all day babbling about that. I seriously believe that.

113 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:25:59pm

re: #104 wee fury

I've been in Edgar Allen Poe's house and I've seen both of his graves.

114 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:26:04pm

re: #91 lucky dog

GAZE

115 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:26:21pm

re: #109 acwgusa

Poor kid. He's going to get his butt kicked no matter what schools he goes to.

True that.

116 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:26:49pm

re: #103 Stuart Leviton

Awesome! I'll ask her if she can request it for me.

117 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:27:50pm

re: #109 acwgusa

Poor kid. He's going to get his butt kicked no matter what schools he goes to.

Back in kindergarten I had a classmate named Peter Pan.

No lie.

118 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:28:12pm

re: #104 wee fury

I've been in Mark Twain's home.
So there.


I've been in the Hemingway house. Only house in Florida with a basement, I think.

119 wee fury  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:29:10pm

re: #113 Mad Al-Jaffee

I will visit. On my todo list.

120 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:29:14pm

re: #117 laZardo

Back in kindergarten I had a classmate named Peter Pan.

No lie.

I have a friend whose last name is Walker. He has a nephew named Luke. I bet you can guess his nephew's middle name.

121 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:29:28pm

re: #113 Mad Al-Jaffee

I've been in Edgar Allen Poe's house and I've seen both of his graves.

I have been to Noel Coward's house and I would have bought it if I was a millionaire...but Chris Blackwell beat me to it

122 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:29:49pm

re: #104 wee fury

I've been in Mark Twain's home.
So there.

I puked on Becky Thatcher's porch on drunken night. Not anything I am particularly proud of by the way.

123 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:30:11pm

re: #117 laZardo

You went to school with this guy?

124 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:30:19pm

re: #117 laZardo

Back in kindergarten I had a classmate named Peter Pan.

No lie.

re: #120 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have a friend whose last name is Walker. He has a nephew named Luke. I bet you can guess his nephew's middle name.

Good Lord, doesn't anyone THINK when naming their children?

125 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:30:21pm

re: #108 HoosierHoops

Napa Valley? The hoopster was raised in Napa Valley...I have a million stories.. utopian communities? Please!

I can understand an absolute ignorance of American history in that situation.

126 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:30:40pm

re: #118 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've been in the Hemingway house. Only house in Florida with a basement, I think.

I saw the outside of it when I was in Key West last year. Next time I go I'll take the tour.

127 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:31:26pm

re: #126 Mad Al-Jaffee

I saw the outside of it when I was in Key West last year. Next time I go I'll take the tour.

Key West is a one time deal...I bet you never go back...

128 allegro  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:31:51pm

I'm a white woman. I have experienced major discrimination as a woman in our culture and have fought to overcome it my entire life, as have all women who have attempted to live to their potential. At that same time, I know I have experienced the privilege of having been born with white skin, which has enabled me to live a life of privilege, meaning the right to a suprior public education, living in "proper" society, being upwardly mobile in any neighborhood and class I wanted to participate in. Anyone with white skin who does not recognize that privilege we experience in our culture, at the expense of those who are no so privileged who contribute to our lifestyles and fortunes, needs to take another look.

129 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:32:04pm

re: #126 Mad Al-Jaffee

I saw the outside of it when I was in Key West last year. Next time I go I'll take the tour.

You get to see his writing room. He also has an in-ground pool that uses salt water.

130 lucky dog  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:32:14pm

re: #112 iceweasel

Sorry, I have done a poor job of trying to get my point across. Maybe some other time. Bye

131 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:32:14pm

This might be a sign of a good thing, folks.

132 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:32:18pm

re: #120 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have a friend whose last name is Walker. He has a nephew named Luke. I bet you can guess his nephew's middle name.

Stay on Target!

133 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:32:51pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

Stay on Target!

Pity his friend, Porkins.

134 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:33:35pm

re: #119 wee fury

Try to go to the church where he's buried on a Saturday afternoon. That way you can visit Baltimore's famous Lexington Market, just a couple of blocks from it.

135 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:33:38pm

re: #4 windsagio

Denial is tough~

Its gotta be hard to feel a certain way but also to know its not acceptable. I think alot of them really tell themselves that they're not really racist, which of course makes them resent any evidence...

I suspect a lot of the railing against "PC talk!" is similar. A whole lot of white folks are really angry that they can't use the n word anymore, and like to play stupid and ask again and again: "How come black people can use that word, huh? You're a reverse racist oppressing my right to free speeeeeech!"

Not that there weren't problems with PC speech codes esp on campuses, but for the rest of the world that battle was fought (and won) in the 80's. Another case where the right appears to be operating from a playbook 30 years out of date, where the culture wars are never ending.

136 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:33:54pm

re: #46 Gus 802

Continuing on shoe shining as it relates to Jim Crow laws. Here is is termed "bootblacks" which was the word used in the days of Jim Crow:

A History of Jim Crow In Oklahoma City

Want to hear something really patronizing?

"The people of the state have said by recently adopted constitutional provision that the race to which the unfortunate victims belonged should in large measure be divorced from participation in our political contests, because of their known racial inferiority and their dependent credulity, which very characteristic made them the mere tool of the designing and cunning. It is well known that I heartily concur in this constitutional provision of the people's will. The more then does the duty devolve upon us of a superior race and of greater intelligence to protect this weaker race from unjustifiable and lawless attacks."
--Oklahoma District Judge Caruthers, instructions to a grand jury
investigating the 1911 lynching of Laura Nelson and her son, quoted in Without Sanctuary

The past is another country. They do things differently there.
-- Leslie Poles Hartley, 1895

137 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:33:56pm

re: #91 lucky dog

re: #72 eclectic infidel

No, I seriously believe that there are a helluva lot of other much more meaningful issues than this. I think it is trivial that someone posted a picture of Obama shining Palin's shoe. In other words' so fucking what!

Oh, and I don't like racism any more than you!

Ok. We now know that you think the image itself is trivial in terms of being newsworthy.

So, do you find the image itself to be racist?

And if not, why?

138 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:34:10pm

re: #111 Gus 802I always thought that was what bootblack referred to (as well as the black polish, of course). But I do not find mention of bootblacking and Jim Crow in Wikipedia. If this is a short coming of Wiki, they should know. But if I may ask a question of you, is America's racist history frequently ignored?

139 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:34:27pm

re: #127 albusteve

Key West is a one time deal...I bet you never go back...

I have a really good friend who lives there. I have a free place to stay any time I want to visit. I'm definitely going back.

140 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:34:44pm

re: #125 MandyManners

I can understand an absolute ignorance of American history in that situation.

Kind regards Mandy

141 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:34:51pm

And by pasting a cut out of President Obama's head onto a shoe shiners head, given the context of the racist socioeconomic implications of African-Americans and bootblacking during the days of Jim Crow and adding the context of the president's race it is in fact racism of the highest order. They are effectively creating a caricature of President Obama as an African-American during the days of Jim Crow "shining the shoes" of who they think to be his superior, Sarah Palin.

142 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:36:00pm

re: #130 lucky dog

Sorry, I have done a poor job of trying to get my point across. Maybe some other time. Bye

you did just fine expressing your point, iceweasel just called BS on your point. You reacted by twisting her words around and accusing her of not understanding. She get that so often, she and her husband made a video about it:

143 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:36:13pm

re: #53 lucky dog

I was trying to intimate that his whole thing is overblown and NOT important at all. Simply a non issue, except for all the hoopla it seems to create!

Your vocabulary word for today is "bellwether".

144 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:36:14pm

re: #124 acwgusa

Good Lord, doesn't anyone THINK when naming their children?

From a phonebook:

Haywood Jablome Jr.

145 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:36:21pm

I really want to visit Faulkner's house. I've been to Mississippi a few times, but never to Oxford.

146 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:36:45pm

re: #123 Mad Al-Jaffee

You went to school with this guy?

Nah, I think Sacha Baron Cohen was already in high school by then.

147 tank816  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:36:49pm

re: #44 BigPapa

No. It would be racist if it was a picture of Obama shining Bush's shoes.

If you don't understand why you're ignorant: if you do but are acting like it's not an issue than you're obfuscating or in denial.

Ok, seriously, what's the deal here? Maybe it's just because I'm younger, but the message is obviously "Palin very superior, Obama very inferior". Now, what would be a non-"racist" way to portray this? Is there absolutely any image you can think of out there that wouldn't trip your racism button?

I keep seeing a double-standard here. I mean, you can post "Bush or Chimp" all you want, but if Obama wants to reform health care and gets photoshopped into a witch doctor, that's wrong because OMG HIS SKIN IS DARK, and that trumps everything. The intended message is that he's offering kooky health care. What type of strong image wouldn't trip your racism button?

Is this just some old/young divide? Cultural? Have we gone so PC that we really can't make fun of anyone of color?

148 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:36:57pm

re: #138 Stuart Leviton

I always thought that was what bootblack referred to (as well as the black polish, of course). But I do not find mention of bootblacking and Jim Crow in Wikipedia. If this is a short coming of Wiki, they should know. But if I may ask a question of you, is America's racist history frequently ignored?

Correct. The black in bootblacking has nothing to do with race.

Do we ignore our racist past? For the most part I would say yes.

149 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:37:27pm

re: #138 Stuart Leviton

by certain people yes. If they're not celebrating it

re: #135 iceweasel

That goes to one of my pet theories:

The Republicans have NEVER recovered from welcoming the Dixiecrats in with open arms. It started a link between fiscal conservatism on one hand and racism and social conservatism on the other, thats only coming to head now.

150 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:37:43pm

Apparently, they're working in shifts tonight.

151 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:38:25pm

re: #147 tank816

I'm younger too, and I'm calling you disingenuous (thats nice for 'a liar'). You know exactly why its offensive. Unless you're like 8, in which case why are you posting here anyways?

152 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:38:26pm

re: #139 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have a really good friend who lives there. I have a free place to stay any time I want to visit. I'm definitely going back.

well that sure makes a difference...the Keys are pretty cool once you get past all the anti tourist pretense etc....very unique down ther...made many trips down from MI back in the day...if I went as an adult I'd probably stay a bit and call it another thing

153 cliffster  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:38:28pm

It's pretty clear to me that people are just trying to get a reaction at this point.

154 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:38:36pm

re: #150 Charles

Apparently, they're working in shifts tonight.

I'm sure Stinky has a backup in the dugout.

155 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:38:53pm

re: #150 Charles

Let the Whack a mole commence!

156 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:39:07pm

re: #154 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sure Stinky has a backup in the dugout.

Stinky has an intern?

157 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:39:30pm

re: #145 Mad Al-Jaffee

I really want to visit Faulkner's house. I've been to Mississippi a few times, but never to Oxford.

If you go there, be sure to take some time to visit Square Books, on the central square in Oxford. It's one of the best small bookstores in the country.

158 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:39:46pm

re: #156 acwgusa

Stinky has an intern?

At times, his arms get tired.

159 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:39:54pm
160 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:40:14pm

re: #104 wee fury

I've been in Mark Twain's home.
So there.

But! Have you drunk any of his whisky, or smoked any of his cigars?

Me neither. :(

Did you know that Mark Twain and Nikola Tesla were pals? Oh, to be a fly on THAT wall.

One of the coolest pictures ever:

Twain in Tesla's Lab

161 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:40:19pm

re: #152 albusteve

I forgot to mention that my friend is a blues guitarist and singer who's just starting to get some solo gigs. I could play some with him and make a few bucks there.

162 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:41:35pm

re: #157 jaunte

If you go there, be sure to take some time to visit Square Books, on the central square in Oxford. It's one of the best small bookstores in the country.

I've heard of it. There was an article about Neko Case in last year's Oxford American annual music issue. She kept on going back to that store and spending hours there.

163 solomonpanting  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:42:09pm

re: #149 windsagio

The Republicans have NEVER recovered from welcoming the Dixiecrats in with open arms

Except for 1980 and 1984 and 1988 and 2000 and 2004.............
I agree.

164 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:42:28pm

re: #156 acwgusa

Stinky has an intern?

Stinky's backup

165 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:42:40pm

re: #147 tank816

The sarcastic anger means we've gotten to Level 4:

166 srjh  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:42:41pm

re: #147 tank816

Is this just some old/young divide? Cultural? Have we gone so PC that we really can't make fun of anyone of color?

You can make fun of someone of color, but if you do so by using racial stereotypes, the racist undertones are unavoidable.

167 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:43:06pm

re: #164 The Shadow Do

Stinky's backup

I think I dated her cousin.
/

168 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:43:08pm

re: #162 Mad Al-Jaffee

They have an amazing selection crammed into a pretty small space. Coffee and sofas upstairs.

169 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:43:35pm

re: #144 laZardo

From a phonebook:

Haywood Jablome Jr.

I once encountered a plump young woman named Rotunda.

170 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:43:49pm

re: #113 Mad Al-Jaffee

I've been in Edgar Allen Poe's house and I've seen both of his graves.

I still get a giggle when upon turning a corner in downtown Baltimore, I see Poe's grave with bouquets of roses and stones and even an occasional pint of whiskey on his grave stone. I once even saw John Astin by the grave.

171 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:43:53pm
172 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:43:53pm

re: #163 solomonpanting

I suppose selling out the future (and the country) to win in the present might be worth it.

173 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:44:15pm

re: #167 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think I dated her cousin.
/

And lived to tell!

174 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:47:32pm

re: #147 tank816

If someone were really try to zing Obamacare in a non-offensive manner, they might draw him as an old-timey medicine show quack. But if they were trying to get a certain sub-text across, then...

175 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:47:53pm

re: #169 The Sanity Inspector

There once was a woman from Venus...


There was a young man from Nantucket...


They practically write themselves, don't they?

176 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:48:14pm

re: #170 Stuart Leviton

I still get a giggle when upon turning a corner in downtown Baltimore, I see Poe's grave with bouquets of roses and stones and even an occasional pint of whiskey on his grave stone. I once even saw John Astin by the grave.

Sonny Boy Williamson's grave (in the middle of nowhere in the Mississippi Delta) has lots of stuff left on it, mainly whiskey bottles and harmonicas.

177 solomonpanting  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:48:25pm

re: #172 windsagio

I suppose selling out the future (and the country) to win in the present might be worth it.

First of all, you said "NEVER recovered".
Seconal, and to move the goalposts back, it doesn't seem like selling out the country is a GOP exclusive, to say the least.

178 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:48:30pm

re: #174 The Sanity Inspector

If someone were really try to zing Obamacare in a non-offensive manner, they might draw him as an old-timey medicine show quack. But if they were trying to get a certain sub-text across, then...

Quite Concur.

179 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:49:12pm

re: #177 solomonpanting

morally they've never recovered. Politically they've done alright.

That was my meaning >>

180 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:49:18pm

re: #169 The Sanity Inspector

I once encountered a plump young woman named Rotunda.

There once was a woman named Rotunda,
Whose butt was so big it.....

/never mind

181 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:50:30pm

re: #175 negativ

There once was a woman from Venus...


There was a young man from Nantucket...


They practically write themselves, don't they?

Careful! I'm a sometimes contributor to alt.jokes.limericks. You mustn't put temptation in my way!

182 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:50:38pm

re: #180 The Shadow Do

There once was a woman named Rotunda,
Whose butt was so big it...

/never mind

Don't be afraid to tell the truth.

183 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:50:54pm

re: #179 windsagio

to make my point clearer...

Imagine, if you will, a Republican party without all those dominionist nutbags. Thats about what you'd have ;)

184 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:51:19pm

re: #180 The Shadow Do

There once was a woman named Rotunda,
Whose butt was so big it...

/never mind

I don't know how the rest of that sentence goes, but I'm pretty sure it ends with "thunder", "under", "plunder", or "sunder".

185 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:51:39pm

re: #179 windsagio

morally they've never recovered. Politically they've done alright.

That was my meaning >>

Ted Kennedy comes to mind for some reason

186 solomonpanting  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:51:46pm

There was a young miss from Lynn, Mass.,
Who had such a magnificant a$$,
Not rounded and pink, like you'd probably think,
'Twas gray, had long ears, and ate grass.

187 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:52:08pm
188 tank816  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:52:14pm

re: #174 The Sanity Inspector

If someone were really try to zing Obamacare in a non-offensive manner, they might draw him as an old-timey medicine show quack. But if they were trying to get a certain sub-text across, then...

Oooh, I like that. Thanks for taking me seriously.

I'm still kinda curious if it's possible to show Obama as lesser than Palin (or any other white person) without triggering the racism alarm.

(The medicine man image was kinda thrown in at the last second because I couldn't think of any other examples. Probably a bad idea.)

189 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:53:04pm

re: #182 laZardo

[Link: www.cracked.com...]

190 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:53:18pm

re: #128 allegro

Excellent post. Upding. IMO it should be in the top ten.

The 'white skin' privilege is invisible to most who live with it and take it for granted. But it is very real and it exists.

It's often not apparent to us unless we are a member of another oppressed class, or somehow lose our privilege in some way. A small example: I suffered an accident a couple of years ago which meant I was in a wheelchair for a few months. Nothing brought home to me the discrimination the disabled face, on a daily basis all their lives, than temporarily being a member of that class. So many tasks of daily living that I take for granted were impossibly hard or just impossible.

And what i noticed most of all was the way that the disabled are just invisible to others. I went from being a member of a class that mostly benefits from being looked at (female, young, reasonably attractive, white) to someone who couldn't get a door held open, or help from a sales person. What i learned is that people don't like to look at the disabled-- so they won't acknowledge you, even if that means letting a door close on you.

The same strangers who just the day before would have fallen over themselves to open a door for me, make conversation with me, fought to help me with something-- didn't notice me at all when I was in a wheelchair.

Every day I was in that situation I thought about what it was like for the people who face it all their lives, with much more grace than I ever could.

Privilege is everywhere and we always take our own for granted-- when we're capable of noticing it at all.

191 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:54:18pm

re: #182 laZardo

Don't be afraid to tell the truth.


[Video]

Tell the Truth...the only one

192 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:54:40pm

re: #188 tank816


I'm still kinda curious if it's possible to show Obama as lesser than Palin (or any other white person) without triggering the racism alarm.


Well that's the problem right there. Why would color be the differentiating factor, unless it was a racist comparison?

193 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:55:20pm

re: #188 tank816

You were pretty specific in complaining about that "medicine man" image and how it was unfair that it was offensive because Obama is black.

Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

194 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:56:03pm

re: #190 iceweasel

For the record, I hold doors for all people. Might be a Southern thing.:)

195 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:56:36pm

re: #189 Mad Al-Jaffee

[Link: www.cracked.com...]

My brother's current IM status message - "That ass looks like 20 gallons of mashed potatoes stuffed into a 10 gallon purse."

196 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:56:53pm

re: #189 Mad Al-Jaffee

Parliament was made up of about 250 men and women, several of them space cowboys, wearing every wig and shiny thing they’ve found over their many years of drugs and insanity.

So true, and what a contrast from today's humorless posturing that seems to be the default setting.

197 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:57:28pm

re: #186 solomonpanting

There was a young miss from Lynn, Mass.,
Who had such a magnificant a$$,
Not rounded and pink, like you'd probably think,
'Twas gray, had long ears, and ate grass.

The laureates damn with a curse
the lecherous limerick verse
but my pen can't refuse
that lewd little muse
I'll double-entendre in my hearse.

198 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:57:45pm

re: #147 tank816

Ok, seriously, what's the deal here? Maybe it's just because I'm younger, but the message is obviously "Palin very superior, Obama very inferior". Now, what would be a non-"racist" way to portray this? Is there absolutely any image you can think of out there that wouldn't trip your racism button?

I keep seeing a double-standard here. I mean, you can post "Bush or Chimp" all you want, but if Obama wants to reform health care and gets photoshopped into a witch doctor, that's wrong because OMG HIS SKIN IS DARK, and that trumps everything. The intended message is that he's offering kooky health care. What type of strong image wouldn't trip your racism button?

Is this just some old/young divide? Cultural? Have we gone so PC that we really can't make fun of anyone of color?

The Bush Chimp imagery wasn't about racism at all. That imagery was purposely pimped to portray the former President as stupid. The issue people take with President Obama being photoshopped, is the fact that the imagery DOES have a history behind it that is racist. It is designed to portray our President as a second class citizen BECAUSE he is black.

This isn't about being PC, it's about being morally decent.

199 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:58:11pm

re: #147 tank816

Ok, seriously, what's the deal here? Maybe it's just because I'm younger, but the message is obviously "Palin very superior, Obama very inferior". Now, what would be a non-"racist" way to portray this? Is there absolutely any image you can think of out there that wouldn't trip your racism button?

Sure. One that didn't employ racist imagery.

See how that works?

BTW, I'm enjoying the "I'm younger than you folks, but..." trolls almost as much as the new "I'm a liberal, but..." trolls we've recently been getting.

If by 'enjoy' we mean 'laugh at and find pitifully obvious.'

200 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:58:26pm

re: #187 MandyManners

*flicks Bic*

201 blueraven  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:58:47pm

re: #188 tank816

Oooh, I like that. Thanks for taking me seriously.

I'm still kinda curious if it's possible to show Obama as lesser than Palin (or any other white person) without triggering the racism alarm.

(The medicine man image was kinda thrown in at the last second because I couldn't think of any other examples. Probably a bad idea.)

I don't understand this need to make one person "lesser" than another person. If you want to attack policy okay, but why make it so personal and ugly?

202 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:58:50pm

re: #200 The Sanity Inspector

*flicks Bic*

in bed?

203 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:59:35pm

re: #147 tank816

I doubt you'll get it but here think of this. If you stick a sombrero on Alberto Gonzales that's racist. If you put the Manmohan Singh (Prime Minister of India) in a 7-11 uniform, that's racist. If you paste Michael Steele's head on a cotton pickers body, that's racist. If you put Eric Cantor's head on someone dressed like a banker, that's racist.

204 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:59:44pm

re: #194 Cannadian Club Akbar

For the record, I hold doors for all people. Might be a Southern thing.:)

New Mexicans are the most polite and friendly people anywhere....you'd fit right in bro....respect and humility

205 solomonpanting  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:59:45pm

re: #197 The Sanity Inspector

The laureates damn with a curse
the lecherous limerick verse
but my pen can't refuse
that lewd little muse
I'll double-entendre in my hearse.

There was a young man from Alsace,
Whose balls were fashioned from brass.
When he knocked them together,
They played "Stormy Weather",
And lightning shot out of his a$$.

206 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:00:39pm

re: #188 tank816

Oooh, I like that. Thanks for taking me seriously.

I'm still kinda curious if it's possible to show Obama as lesser than Palin (or any other white person) without triggering the racism alarm.

(The medicine man image was kinda thrown in at the last second because I couldn't think of any other examples. Probably a bad idea.)

You could show them as bigger than him, though that would not work for Palin, since he's a better leader than she is (I hate saying that, and I wish it was not true).

207 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:01:10pm
208 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:01:19pm

re: #196 negativ

So true, and what a contrast from today's humorless posturing that seems to be the default setting.

We Want The Funk!

209 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:01:46pm

re: #199 iceweasel

I've always thought pointing & laughing hurts more than mere words!

210 tank816  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:02:25pm

re: #192 jaunte

Well that's the problem right there. Why would color be the differentiating factor, unless it was a racist comparison?

That's sorta what I'm asking. Is it always going to be racist if the person being portrayed as inferior is black and the person being portrayed as superior is white?

If I made Obama Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny Palin, would anyone call that racist?

211 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:02:31pm

re: #208 The Sanity Inspector

No Blood For Funk!

212 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:02:51pm

re: #194 Cannadian Club Akbar

For the record, I hold doors for all people. Might be a Southern thing.:)

Nah-- the special Southern thing is the charm with which y'all do it. :)

213 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:02:52pm

re: #209 Floral Giraffe

I've always thought pointing & laughing hurts more than mere words!

No. Throwing bricks does. So I hear...
//

214 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:03:35pm

re: #187 MandyManners

Oh, hell.

FREE BIRD.

FREE BIR- oh wait, now I'm all out of music requests. :)

215 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:03:45pm

re: #210 tank816

That's sorta what I'm asking. Is it always going to be racist if the person being portrayed as inferior is black and the person being portrayed as superior is white?

If I made Obama Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny Palin, would anyone call that racist?

You're missing the point. There's a very specific, very real history of black men being forced into menial labor.

216 wee fury  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:03:54pm

But, wait!
It is a fairy tale photoshop.
Palin is Cinderella.
President Obama is Prince Charming.
Trying to fit the shoe on her foot.
/

217 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:04:10pm

re: #210 tank816

Probably not. Making a funny comparison that avoids racial stereotyping is something most political humorists are good at.

218 Tigger2005  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:04:11pm

re: #201 blueraven

Exactly. I thought the American idea is that "all (people) are created equal"?

True, most of the Founding Fathers probably intended that line to refer only to white males. But we've evolved since then.

219 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:04:15pm

re: #185 albusteve

Ted Kennedy comes to mind as a southern racist ex-democrat? You sure you're not thinking 'Strom Thurmond'?

220 tank816  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:04:19pm

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

You could show them as bigger than him, though that would not work for Palin, since he's a better leader than she is (I hate saying that, and I wish it was not true).

Agreed. (And agreed.) But would you get someone saying big white people were stomping on or overshadowing a little black guy, just like all through history?

221 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:04:21pm

re: #215 EmmmieG

(Emmie, it's deliberate..)

222 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:05:06pm

re: #221 Floral Giraffe

(Emmie, it's deliberate..)

Yes, but sometimes I can't help myself. It's kind of like yelling at the TV.

223 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:05:25pm

re: #219 windsagio

Ted Kennedy comes to mind as a southern racist ex-democrat? You sure you're not thinking 'Strom Thurmond'?

no, go back and read the posts...it will dawn on you...then maybe not

224 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:05:34pm

re: #196 negativ

So true, and what a contrast from today's humorless posturing that seems to be the default setting.

Elsewhere on the 'net I've crossed cursors with uptight young black people who dismissed acts like P-Funk as "a coon show". Poor youngsters are just depriving themselves, with an attitude like that.

225 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:05:42pm
226 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:06:06pm

re: #222 EmmmieG

As long as you're having fun!
That's the important part.

227 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:06:15pm

re: #215 EmmmieG

You're missing the point. There's a very specific, very real history of black men being forced into menial labor.

No, he isn't missing the point at all. He's deliberately confusing the issue. And I'm beginning to get tired of it.

228 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:06:36pm

Tick tock.

229 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:06:38pm

re: #225 gtluke

Look up the word mutable, genius.

230 wee fury  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:06:50pm

re: #225 gtluke

Your avatar is spooky.

231 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:07:07pm

re: #220 tank816

Agreed. (And agreed.) But would you get someone saying big white people were stomping on or overshadowing a little black guy, just like all through history?

Maybe, but you could use dialog to make it clear you did not mean that. Again, its about the overall context.

232 tank816  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:07:38pm

re: #215 EmmmieG

You're missing the point. There's a very specific, very real history of black men being forced into menial labor.

So it's just the menial labor part that's offensive? That's probably what I was having a hard time understanding.

233 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:07:38pm

Start the grill!
Side order requests, now being taken.
Where's Dark Falcon?

234 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:08:16pm

re: #207 MandyManners

[Video]

What, again so soon? You're as bad as the local classic rock station!

;)

235 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:08:29pm

re: #233 Floral Giraffe

Start the grill!
Side order requests, now being taken.
Where's Dark Falcon?

I want mac-n-cheese!!

236 wee fury  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:08:38pm

225 -- bye.

237 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:08:52pm

re: #233 Floral Giraffe


He's eating the buttocks.

238 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:08:56pm

re: #147 tank816

Define 'younger'. I'm 26 and know why that photoshopped image of Obama is racist. Of course, I also know that you're just obfuscating.

239 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:09:03pm

re: #230 wee fury

Your avatar is spooky.

He got the boot. Tonight's too cold to grill, so I'm going to leave the troll on the patio overnight to keep it fresh (it's well below freezing here). I'll deep fry it tomorrow.

240 Tigger2005  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:09:05pm

This is very strange to me. I don't know where you live, but maybe people are nicer out here in the Midwest. Can't imagine many people here not being helpful to a disabled person. I have a blind coworker, and everyone gives her a hand when she needs it, while being careful not to overdo it.

She's an interesting person...says she really prefers hanging out with sighted folks. She told me once that in her experience many blind people are bitter and depressing.

re: #190 iceweasel

Excellent post. Upding. IMO it should be in the top ten.

The 'white skin' privilege is invisible to most who live with it and take it for granted. But it is very real and it exists.

It's often not apparent to us unless we are a member of another oppressed class, or somehow lose our privilege in some way. A small example: I suffered an accident a couple of years ago which meant I was in a wheelchair for a few months. Nothing brought home to me the discrimination the disabled face, on a daily basis all their lives, than temporarily being a member of that class. So many tasks of daily living that I take for granted were impossibly hard or just impossible.

And what i noticed most of all was the way that the disabled are just invisible to others. I went from being a member of a class that mostly benefits from being looked at (female, young, reasonably attractive, white) to someone who couldn't get a door held open, or help from a sales person. What i learned is that people don't like to look at the disabled-- so they won't acknowledge you, even if that means letting a door close on you.

The same strangers who just the day before would have fallen over themselves to open a door for me, make conversation with me, fought to help me with something-- didn't notice me at all when I was in a wheelchair.

Every day I was in that situation I thought about what it was like for the people who face it all their lives, with much more grace than I ever could.

Privilege is everywhere and we always take our own for granted-- when we're capable of noticing it at all.

241 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:09:11pm

Smells like Laup Norian spirit.

242 tank816  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:09:24pm

re: #227 Charles

No, he isn't missing the point at all. He's deliberately confusing the issue. And I'm beginning to get tired of it.

Ugh. I'm trying to figure things out here. You all seem to be working with a different set of givens than I am. I'm trying to stay respectful.

243 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:09:25pm

re: #217 jaunte

Probably not. Making a funny comparison that avoids racial stereotyping is something most political humorists are good at.

Understanding what is funny and what is racist is something most people are good at. Lack of this ability is exploited by racists themselves.

244 metrolibertarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:09:52pm

re: #210 tank816

That's sorta what I'm asking. Is it always going to be racist if the person being portrayed as inferior is black and the person being portrayed as superior is white?

If I made Obama Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny Palin, would anyone call that racist?

No, it's going to be fucking racist if your depiction of a white being superior to the black is specifically drawing on historically racist imagery.

If I have a picture essentially saying Joe Montana > Donovan McNabb that's not racist. Joe Montana won four Super Bowls, Donovan McNabb typically chokes in the big game. However if I have an image of Donovan McNabb picking cotton for Joe Montana, then I'm being racist. It's actually not a difficult concept to understand you dipshit.

245 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:10:22pm

re: #232 tank816

So it's just the menial labor part that's offensive? That's probably what I was having a hard time understanding.

Somewhere near you there is a public library. In it there are books detailing the history of racism in America. Would you mind reading one, as your high school seems to have skipped this part?

Look under: Jim Crow. In fact, just look up Jim Crow laws in wikipedia. We can wait.

246 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:10:24pm

re: #232 tank816

So it's just the menial labor part that's offensive? That's probably what I was having a hard time understanding.

For crying out loud, it's not the menial labor. It's about historically stereotypical or racially enforced vocations or professions.

247 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:10:29pm

re: #242 tank816

Ugh. I'm trying to figure things out here. You all seem to be working with a different set of givens than I am. I'm trying to stay respectful.

Is that another way of saying you're a few bricks short of a load or?

248 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:10:31pm

re: #233 Floral Giraffe

I actually have a couple of pounds of chicken leg quarters marinading overnight. I'm going to slow cook them on my smoker tomorrow, chop them up find and bring them to a party. Pulled chicken!

249 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:10:46pm

re: #235 Cannadian Club Akbar

We can do whine-n-cheese, does that work for you?

250 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:11:06pm

re: #243 BigPapa

Whatever comparison of Palin and Obama is made, it will have to take into account the fact that she quit her elected office, and he persisted.

251 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:11:08pm

re: #243 BigPapa

Understanding what is funny and what is racist is something most people are good at. Lack of this ability is exploited by racists themselves.

I don't think anybody misunderstands the issue here...I don't cut any slack, I just ignore them

252 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:11:08pm

re: #233 Floral Giraffe

Start the grill!
Side order requests, now being taken.
Where's Dark Falcon?

Hi..My name is the Hoopster.. I'll be your waiter tonight..

253 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:11:59pm

re: #220 tank816

Agreed. (And agreed.) But would you get someone saying big white people were stomping on or overshadowing a little black guy, just like all through history?

Good grief, just open the editorial page of most any daily newspaper nowadays, if you want to see drawings of Obama getting a rough ride.

254 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:12:16pm

re: #233 Floral Giraffe

Start the grill!
Side order requests, now being taken.
Where's Dark Falcon?

I'm right here. No grilling tonight, I'm afraid. That troll simply isn't gamey enough. It wasn't a Grilling Troll, its a Frying Troll. I need to go grocery shopping tomorrow so I can fry the troll up proper.

255 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:12:30pm

re: #249 Floral Giraffe

We can do whine-n-cheese, does that work for you?

re: #252 HoosierHoops

Hi..My name is the Hoopster.. I'll be your waiter tonight..

Bring us a 1976 Jordan Cabernet!!!

256 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:13:10pm

re: #248 Mad Al-Jaffee

What time should I arrive?
Drooling...

257 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:13:26pm

re: #255 Cannadian Club Akbar

I tink I spelt that rong.

258 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:13:36pm

re: #251 albusteve

I don't think anybody misunderstands the issue here...I don't cut any slack, I just ignore them

You're probably right, I think this guy does and is full of shit. Gladly the rest of us get it: yet, there are large portions of our populace don't know the diff.

259 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:13:40pm

re: #223 albusteve

Sigh, irony is useless against your powers!

I'll try a slightly different tack. As unshocking as it is that you hate Ted Kennedy (he was kind of an entitled douche), it also has absolutely nothing to do with the argument I was making, except that you reflexively make Tu Quoque arguments every time somebody says anything bad about the right in general, or the Republicans. (Holy runon sentence, Batman!)

260 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:13:44pm

re: #147 tank816

I can say the Obama-Hitler signs are absolutely not racist. They have other problems, though...

261 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:14:14pm

re: #257 Cannadian Club Akbar

I tink I spelt that rong.

LOL!

262 metrolibertarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:14:47pm

re: #260 JasonA

I can say the Obama-Hitler signs are absolutely not racist. They have other problems, though...

Dropping out of 7th grade being one of those problems.

263 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:14:54pm

re: #148 Gus 802

Correct. The black in bootblacking has nothing to do with race.
Do we ignore our racist past? For the most part I would say yes.

I meant that while boot blacking initially referred to the black shoe polish, that there is a Jim Crow history related to boot blacking. And that history is omitted from the Wikipedia entry - something I consider an important mistake (oversight?) on their part.

The next question is 'why'? Why does African-American history slither down the drain? Or is the question how? But does our society pay homage to black history grudgingly? I'm not quite sure what the question is that I wish to ask. So unfortunately, it leaves it to you the reader to help me out.

I am often surprised to realize that the name Bayard Rustin means nothing to most people, even in the African-American community.

264 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:15:13pm

re: #240 Tigger2005

This is very strange to me. I don't know where you live, but maybe people are nicer out here in the Midwest. Can't imagine many people here not being helpful to a disabled person.

I thought the same thing when I read Iceweasel's post. I can't imagine people around here not helping someone in a wheelchair navigate their way through a door.

265 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:15:20pm

re: #256 Floral Giraffe

What time should I arrive?
Drooling...

It's from 1-6 (or later.) I expect to be there mid-afternoon.

[Link: acousticblues.com...]

266 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:15:30pm

re: #259 windsagio

Sigh, irony is useless against your powers!

I'll try a slightly different tack. As unshocking as it is that you hate Ted Kennedy (he was kind of an entitled douche), it also has absolutely nothing to do with the argument I was making, except that you reflexively make Tu Quoque arguments every time somebody says anything bad about the right in general, or the Republicans. (Holy runon sentence, Batman!)

the Kennedy quip was in reference to morality with regard to political success

267 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:16:08pm

re: #149 windsagioLooks like we still have Nixon to kick around. (Please, don't down-ding me. I actually like Nixon).

268 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:16:51pm

re: #240 Tigger2005

This is very strange to me. I don't know where you live, but maybe people are nicer out here in the Midwest. Can't imagine many people here not being helpful to a disabled person.

I didn't encounter anyone being mean to me. What I encountered was the loss of privilege that we, the abled, take for granted. This mostly manifests as people looking away from you. It's not even conscious. I can't tell you how many people noticed and were horrified about say, letting the door shut on me-- after the fact.

The point is about the many ways in which our physical presence in the world affects how others relate to us. The large problems (job, educational, housing discrimination) are very easy to identify and fix with laws.

What isn't so easy to quantify, or fix, are the other ways in which it affects how people see us-- or fail to see us. Whether you're gay, black, female, poor, whatever. Being white, like not being disabled, is a privilege that those of us who have take for granted. It exists.

269 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:17:03pm

re: #262 metrolibertarian

Dropping out of 7th grade being one of those problems.

Indeed.
I wasn't aware that the 12th Division Captain posted here. ;)

270 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:17:07pm

re: #258 BigPapa

You're probably right, I think this guy does and is full of shit. Gladly the rest of us get it: yet, there are large portions of our populace don't know the diff.

people like that are not worth dozens of argumentative posts....imo

271 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:17:12pm

re: #267 Stuart Leviton

I actually like Nixon

Whats not to like?
/

272 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:17:33pm

re: #264 Mich-again

I thought the same thing when I read Iceweasel's post. I can't imagine people around here not helping someone in a wheelchair navigate their way through a door.

Has anyone ever held the door for a feminist, and gotten a scolding for being a condescending patriarchial oppressor for your trouble?

Me neither. Most people appreciate simple good manners.

273 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:19:41pm

re: #272 The Sanity Inspector

Has anyone ever held the door for a feminist, and gotten a scolding for being a condescending patriarchial oppressor for your trouble?

Me neither. Most people appreciate simple good manners.

I know a woman with good manners. Her name is Mandy.
//

274 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:20:12pm

re: #266 albusteve

Oh, I got it, I just thought it was poorly done. I'm also not surprised that you think Kennedy is Immoral.

re: #267 Stuart Leviton

hah why would I - that? I like call backs and good turns of phrase >>

re: #268 iceweasel

Altho, working in the field, I agree with what you're saying, 'privilege' is kind of a bad word to me. It tends to be misused (as a bludgeon) in the more radical circles.

~~

To others, it really does happen, and its about what they say. In general people don't see, or more likely don't think about it. Its not like they're purposely snubbing the disabled >>

275 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:20:25pm

re: #267 Stuart Leviton

Looks like we still have Nixon to kick around. (Please, don't down-ding me. I actually like Nixon).

Nixon is the reason I wince whenever people say there should be an IQ requirement for Presidential candidates vis-a-vis Bush.

/Nixon's IQ was 143, last I checked. The life of a tormented genius...

276 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:21:13pm

re: #275 laZardo

the booze didn't help :(

Neither did being cheated (afaik) in 1960. That'll warp a man.

277 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:21:17pm

re: #147 tank816

Now, what would be a non-"racist" way to portray this? Is there absolutely any image you can think of out there that wouldn't trip your racism button?


Barak and Sarah are were both high school basketball players -- portray her jumping doing a slam dunk while he ineffectually tries to guard. Or potray her blocking his 3-point attempt.

He went to Harvard and taught constitution law at Chicago -- portray him in an ivory tower, or just his head sticking up from behind an ivy-covered wall, while Sarah leads a bunch of Joe the Plumbers marching down the street.

If I gave it some time I'm sure I could come up with more.

278 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:21:34pm

What could be stupider than for someone to deny that the Obama shoeshine photoshop is racist? There is no non-racist interpretation that I can see.
As for the CJ photoshop, it is just plain stupid and pointless.

279 tank816  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:21:41pm

re: #244 metrolibertarian

If I have a picture essentially saying Joe Montana > Donovan McNabb that's not racist. Joe Montana won four Super Bowls, Donovan McNabb typically chokes in the big game. However if I have an image of Donovan McNabb picking cotton for Joe Montana, then I'm being racist.

Yeah, I understand how "picking cotton" is racist. It's the whole shoeshine thing I was unfamiliar with, I guess.

280 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:21:52pm

re: #264 Mich-again

I thought the same thing when I read Iceweasel's post. I can't imagine people around here not helping someone in a wheelchair navigate their way through a door.

See my 268. I'm telling you, this happened to me on a daily basis, and it wasn't people being mean-- it was that i was suddenly invisible to them. It was unconscious on their part-- just as many of our longest lasting prejudices likewise operate below the level of conscious awareness or articulated belief.

281 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:22:20pm

re: #203 Gus 802

If you put Eric Cantor's head on someone dressed like a banker, that's racist.

That joke would probably go over a lot of heads. I doubt most people even know he's Jewish. Not defending it at all, mind you, just thinking of how much fail would be involved in that "joke."

282 metrolibertarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:22:36pm

re: #275 laZardo

Nixon is the reason I wince whenever people say there should be an IQ requirement for Presidential candidates vis-a-vis Bush.

/Nixon's IQ was 143, last I checked. The life of a tormented genius...

I'd change "tormented" to "tormenting."

283 Tigger2005  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:24:12pm

re: #268 iceweasel

OK. You've had the experience, I haven't. I'm disabled, but it's not the visible kind...I have severe hearing loss. However, I HAVE had the experience, often, of people turning away from me and stopping talking to me once they find it difficult to communicate with me.

I also am missing most of the first finger and half the thumb on my left hand, but very few people seem to notice that.

284 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:24:13pm

re: #272 The Sanity Inspector

Has anyone ever held the door for a feminist, and gotten a scolding for being a condescending patriarchial oppressor for your trouble?

Me neither. Most people appreciate simple good manners.

I have a bad leg, crippled actually...over the last 17 months I've lost track how many time people have given me a shopping cart, offered to cut in line or pump my gas, or go down thru the liquour store and get my stuff, carry my laundry, on and on...not to mention holding a door while I amble along...I have hardly lost faith in my neighbors round here anyway...it's beyond manners, it's just helping out on the most fundamental level

285 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:24:59pm

re: #279 tank816

Sigh, Gus 802 explained why quite clearly.

286 Fenris  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:25:55pm

They could've at least taken the time to apply the dodge tool to the hands. Then again, the right isn't exactly known for its consistency.

287 Tigger2005  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:26:01pm

re: #284 albusteve

I have a bad leg, crippled actually...over the last 17 months I've lost track how many time people have given me a shopping cart, offered to cut in line or pump my gas, or go down thru the liquour store and get my stuff, carry my laundry, on and on...not to mention holding a door while I amble along...I have hardly lost faith in my neighbors round here anyway...it's beyond manners, it's just helping out on the most fundamental level

Do unto others...

288 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:26:35pm

re: #268 iceweasel

Being white, like not being disabled, is a privilege that those of us who have take for granted. It exists.

I'm not sure how much "being white" gets a person special priveleges these days unless you mean getting treated nicer by racists. As for being treated as "invisible", to me that would be the sign of a color-blind society.

289 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:27:24pm

re: #263 Stuart Leviton

I meant that while boot blacking initially referred to the black shoe polish, that there is a Jim Crow history related to boot blacking. And that history is omitted from the Wikipedia entry - something I consider an important mistake (oversight?) on their part.

The next question is 'why'? Why does African-American history slither down the drain? Or is the question how? But does our society pay homage to black history grudgingly? I'm not quite sure what the question is that I wish to ask. So unfortunately, it leaves it to you the reader to help me out.

I am often surprised to realize that the name Bayard Rustin means nothing to most people, even in the African-American community.

Those particular laws might be so specific they don't show up. I was able to find the one example relating to Jim Crow laws and bootblacking by searching through Google. Wiki can always be added to reflect specific Jim Crow laws. Also, Jim Crow was done to mandate segregation which is why they banned bootblacking.

I am not familiar with the current educational environment. I can only assume that there has been an increased interest in teaching this type of history. I do know that some members of the Texas Board of Education have been attempting to omit some of this type of history from the textbooks.

290 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:28:11pm

re: #284 albusteve

Glad you have had a positive experience!
Many people, maybe because of where they live, have not.

My folks were disabled, unable to walk much of a distance.
They had some good experiences, and returned to do business where they got help. Not too many bad experiences, but those they didn't talk about.

291 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:28:12pm

re: #288 Mich-again

its little things, like being less likely to be pulled over by a cop, or less likely to be followed around by store security... Or having a slightly easier time getting that home loan.

Its not big or explicit, but its certainly there.

292 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:28:33pm

sometimes I wonder what Mary Jo thinks of Ted's morality...just in passing from one subject to another...remember her?

293 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:28:47pm

re: #291 windsagio

its little things, like being less likely to be pulled over by a cop, or less likely to be followed around by store security... Or having a slightly easier time getting that home loan.

Its not big or explicit, but its certainly there.

Resumes with "white" names result in more interviews.

294 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:29:38pm

re: #293 McSpiff

thats a good one too. Its the last (and biggest) hurdle we have.

295 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:29:40pm

re: #281 JasonA

That joke would probably go over a lot of heads. I doubt most people even know he's Jewish. Not defending it at all, mind you, just thinking of how much fail would be involved in that "joke."

True. Of course that's a common stereotype at white supremacist or Klan organization. We've also seen that extending into the Ron Paul "audit the Fed" crowds from time to time. That stereotype of course being "the Jewish banker."

296 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:29:55pm

re: #287 Tigger2005

Do unto others...

pretty simple...and so easy to put on a smile and help out a bit

297 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:30:29pm

re: #288 Mich-again

I'm not sure how much "being white" gets a person special priveleges these days unless you mean getting treated nicer by racists. As for being treated as "invisible", to me that would be the sign of a color-blind society.

Chris Rock proposed an acid test. Think of the happiest, most admired, popular black person you can think of. Would you trade places with them?

298 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:30:59pm

re: #296 albusteve

pretty simple...and so easy to put on a smile and help out a bit

It can even change one's personal bad day.

299 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:31:30pm

re: #268 iceweasel

So according to you being white is a privilege that white people take for granted?

Now THERE is a classic lib guilt trip...and racist to boot.

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:31:44pm

re: #298 Cannadian Club Akbar

ones, not one's, PIMF

301 tank816  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:32:19pm

re: #285 Varek Raith

Sigh, Gus 802 explained why quite clearly.

And, of course, I just now go back and read that. D'oh. ::bangs head on table::

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:32:34pm

re: #69 windsagio

I hear he also used it in "Huck Finn"

Several times.

303 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:33:14pm

re: #299 Spare O'Lake

So according to you being white is a privilege that white people take for granted?

Now THERE is a classic lib guilt trip...and racist to boot.

She's talking about abled vs disabled people buckethead.

304 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:33:15pm

re: #271 Mich-again

Whats not to like?
/

Well, to start with, Nixon is not a crook because he told us.

Despite Nixon's numerous failings - I hope that word is strong enough of a condemnation - he also accomplished some important things for the United States.

305 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:33:17pm

re: #300 Cannadian Club Akbar

ones, not one's, PIMF

Nope, you were right the first time. You were thinking of the its / it's bugaboo.

306 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:33:34pm

re: #299 Spare O'Lake

never ever proclaim reverse-racism. Nothing good can come of it, and it makes you look like a tool.

307 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:33:40pm

re: #297 The Sanity Inspector
I wouldn't trade places with anyone. My point is I wasn't crazy about the analogy that being a minority is somehow akin to a disability.

308 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:33:43pm

re: #298 Cannadian Club Akbar

It can even change one's personal bad day.

NM is full of hard scrabble tough people...they blow it off and make do...friendliness down here is the default attitude

309 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:33:51pm

re: #299 Spare O'Lake

So according to you being white is a privilege that white people take for granted?

Now THERE is a classic lib guilt trip...and racist to boot.

You can argue its wrong, Spare, but said how ice said it, its not racist.

310 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:34:13pm

re: #299 Spare O'Lake

It's a commonplace that privileged people forget that they're privileged in comparison to most. That's just the way people are.

311 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:34:21pm

re: #88 Obdicut

Back in Twain's day, it wasn't so much a question of "are you racist?" but "how successfully do you rise above racism?"

I actually think that Huck Finn is a wonderful book to teach against racism, because it shows the position of an intelligent and worthy black man in the society of that time. I love Jim's answer to the question of Solomon, because it's much, much wiser than Solomon's answer.

I would love to teach Huck Finn. We don't have nearly enough time set aside to do the whole novel in the American Literature year at my school.

312 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:34:21pm

re: #297 The Sanity Inspector

Chris Rock proposed an acid test. Think of the happiest, most admired, popular black person you can think of. Would you trade places with them?

Yeah, Tiger Wo - oh never mind.

313 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:34:35pm

re: #296 albusteve

pretty simple...and so easy to put on a smile and help out a bit

And the blessings of a grateful "thank you" and a smile
ARE PRICELESS!
Talk about "making a difference"!!
It can be done daily.
Super rewards, IMHO.

314 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:34:39pm

re: #304 Stuart Leviton

Well, to start with, Nixon is not a crook because he told us.

Despite Nixon's numerous failings - I hope that word is strong enough of a condemnation - he also accomplished some important things for the United States.

Such as saving Israel from national annihilation in '73, with a massive airlift of resupply for the IDF. Those wage and price controls though, feh...

315 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:35:21pm

re: #314 The Sanity Inspector

Such as saving Israel from national annihilation in '73, with a massive airlift of resupply for the IDF. Those wage and price controls though, feh...

And the EPA!

316 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:35:25pm

re: #312 Mad Al-Jaffee

Yeah, Tiger Wo - oh never mind.

That's what you get for not minding your putter.

317 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:35:45pm

re: #304 Stuart Leviton

Well, to start with, Nixon is not a crook because he told us.

Despite Nixon's numerous failings - I hope that word is strong enough of a condemnation - he also accomplished some important things for the United States.

Things that people today would consider liberal things.

EPA. OSHA. Affirmative action. Roe v. Wade.

Among the things he tried to accomplish but couldn't quite manage -- equal rights amendment. Universal health care.

318 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:36:00pm

re: #303 Locker

She's talking about abled vs disabled people buckethead.

buckethead!....the sharks are here...hahaha!

319 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:36:05pm

re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist

You don't have enough time to do one novel?


Oh- wait, I get it. You don't have time to do that novel justice.


Its not my favorite thing Twain wrote (I like The Innocents Abroad) but its certainly the best. Maybe the best American Novel.


(I love me some Mark Twain)

320 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:36:32pm

re: #312 Mad Al-Jaffee

Yeah, Tiger Wo - oh never mind.

OK, that made me laugh!

321 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:37:02pm

re: #316 acwgusa

That's what you get for not minding your putter.

No, its what you get from putting your putter down too many holes. ;)

322 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:37:37pm

re: #288 Mich-again

I'm not sure how much "being white" gets a person special priveleges these days unless you mean getting treated nicer by racists.

Someone else is going to have to explain to you what is meant by the concept of 'white privilege'-- the genuine article. Not in the mood for it myself tonight.

323 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:37:49pm

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

No, its what you get from putting your putter down too many holes. ;)

I thought the balls went in the holes.

324 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:37:53pm

re: #317 sagehen

Things that people today would consider liberal things.

EPA. OSHA. Affirmative action. Roe v. Wade.

Only Nixon could go to China, as the saying went.

Among the things he tried to accomplish but couldn't quite manage -- equal rights amendment. Universal health care.

325 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:38:23pm

re: #303 Locker

She's talking about abled vs disabled people buckethead.

Wrong, toiletbreath. Read the last sentence of the comment I was responding to - it's right there, ya goof.

326 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:38:33pm

OK, Lizards, been a good night here. I like these nights. Have a good rest of yours.:)

327 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:38:55pm

re: #324 The Sanity Inspector

Good tactics despite the Cultural Revolution, seeing as how China was falling out with the Soviets by then.

328 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:39:00pm

re: #323 acwgusa

I thought the balls went in the holes.

No, they just slapped against the area around the hole.

329 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:39:11pm

OT, but a nice finale to my bowl game watching.

Gatorade

330 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:39:18pm

re: #299 Spare O'Lake

So according to you being white is a privilege that white people take for granted?

Now THERE is a classic lib guilt trip...and racist to boot.

Way to miss the point, dipshit. It's about what I'd expect from you.

331 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:39:18pm

re: #316 acwgusa

That's what you get for not minding your putter.


No thats what happens when people think they have special priveleges and that rules are for other people.

332 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:39:22pm

TORA!
TORA!
TORA!

haha!...I love it

333 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:39:24pm

re: #274 windsagioSorry, my friend. I wasn't referring to you specifically on my plea to not down-ding on my attempt at a Nixon joke. I was thinking more of anyone in the community. I felt my comment was vulnerable to a down-ding because the joke was disrespectful towards the man. So I wanted to reassure anyone that my joke was shtetl humor (dark humor). No offense meant to you.

334 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:39:36pm

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

No, they just slapped against the area around the hole.

I hope there was a firm grip around the shaft.

335 metrolibertarian  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:40:16pm

re: #317 sagehen

Things that people today would consider liberal things.

EPA. OSHA. Affirmative action. Roe v. Wade.

Among the things he tried to accomplish but couldn't quite manage -- equal rights amendment. Universal health care.

Among other things he did accomplish includes the mass murder of Cambodians with his carpet bombing thereby creating a vacuum within the country which allowed the Khmer Rouge to take over. And the coup that led to the fascist Augusto Pinochet to take power. It's a pity there's no hell for Nixon to suffer in for eternity.

336 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:41:59pm

re: #147 tank816

Ok, seriously, what's the deal here? Maybe it's just because I'm younger, but the message is obviously "Palin very superior, Obama very inferior". Now, what would be a non-"racist" way to portray this? Is there absolutely any image you can think of out there that wouldn't trip your racism button?

I keep seeing a double-standard here. I mean, you can post "Bush or Chimp" all you want, but if Obama wants to reform health care and gets photoshopped into a witch doctor, that's wrong because OMG HIS SKIN IS DARK, and that trumps everything. The intended message is that he's offering kooky health care. What type of strong image wouldn't trip your racism button?

Is this just some old/young divide? Cultural? Have we gone so PC that we really can't make fun of anyone of color?

Child, learn some got-damn history, and then learn some got-damn manners, and then find one time when Charles Johnson has ever permitted people to go around on this blog comparing President Bush to a chimpanzee, and then get your behind back here, and have a conversation with the grown-ups. I'll save you a soda.

337 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:42:27pm

re: #332 albusteve

TORA!
TORA!
TORA!

haha!...I love it

Is that movie on? What channel?

338 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:43:05pm

re: #337 Dark_Falcon

Is that movie on? What channel?

the LGF Network

339 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:43:17pm

re: #335 metrolibertarian

Among other things he did accomplish includes the mass murder of Cambodians with his carpet bombing thereby creating a vacuum within the country which allowed the Khmer Rouge to take over. And the coup that led to the fascist Augusto Pinochet to take power. It's a pity there's no hell for Nixon to suffer in for eternity.

Read up a bit this morning about the invasion of East Timor and the subsequent blood bath and how Ford, Carter and even Daniel Patrick Moynihan had their paws in it.

Plus what Nixon did regarding Jews in the Department of Labor and his intent to fire them for being Jewish.

340 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:43:46pm

re: #285 Varek RaithGus deserves applauses for the mini-series he posted. I learned alot. Thanks Gus.

341 Lidane  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:43:53pm

re: #335 metrolibertarian

It's a pity there's no hell for Nixon to suffer in for eternity.

Did you ever read Hunter S. Thompson's obituary for Nixon? It was ruthless and probably the harshest thing I'd ever seen from HST:

He Was a Crook

342 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:43:56pm

re: #331 Mich-again

No thats what happens when people think they have special priveleges and that rules are for other people.

Well, Tiger and the Caddy found out that the laws of physics are unbreakable.

I feel for the Cadillac.

343 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:43:56pm

re: #303 Locker

She's talking about abled vs disabled people buckethead.

To be fair, here is what she wrote (the excerpt):

Being white, like not being disabled, is a privilege that those of us who have take for granted. It exists.

What I took from this:

-1-(s)he conflated the two 'labels'

-2-not being disabled is equivalent to a privilege

-3-being white is a privilege whether we're aware of said privilege or not

344 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:44:03pm

re: #307 Mich-again

I wouldn't trade places with anyone. My point is I wasn't crazy about the analogy that being a minority is somehow akin to a disability.

Great, we'll keep you on standby so that when someone does make an analogy drawing that point-- as opposed to the point that people often treat minorities and the disabled in similar ways-- you can rebut it.

Until then? Maybe someone on craigslist encounters has placed an ad "Disabled argument seeks strawman". Go check.

345 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:45:19pm

re: #288 Mich-again

I'm not sure how much "being white" gets a person special priveleges these days unless you mean getting treated nicer by racists. As for being treated as "invisible", to me that would be the sign of a color-blind society.

Come to Maryland for a weekend and you'll see it. Jim Crow did not completely die here.

346 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:45:37pm

re: #335 metrolibertarian

Among other things he did accomplish includes the mass murder of Cambodians with his carpet bombing thereby creating a vacuum within the country which allowed the Khmer Rouge to take over. And the coup that led to the fascist Augusto Pinochet to take power. It's a pity there's no hell for Nixon to suffer in for eternity.

The Khmer Rouge, being communist, was always murderous, and would have carried out the exact same horror show even if Cambodia had been signed over to them with no war at all. This was a common alibi of Western apologists for communist tyrannies during the Cold War: The big bad meanie imperialists made them murder all those people. I've no idea how old you are, ML, but you should know that that line is decades past its sell-by date.

347 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:46:14pm

re: #346 The Sanity Inspector

Saying 'Communists are always murderous' is kinda wacky.

348 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:46:41pm

re: #330 iceweasel

Way to miss the point, dipshit. It's about what I'd expect from you.

It's precisely what you said, you foul-mouthed lib. You just couldn't resist tossing in the gratuitous little race barb at the end of your comment about disabilities, could you?

349 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:46:53pm

Good Contractor Above,

Is that what a structured wiring panel costs these days? What a rip!

350 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:47:06pm

A nice song for an evening like this....

351 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:47:07pm

re: #329 Stanley Sea

OT, but a nice finale to my bowl game watching.

Gatorade

Nice man. Personally I'm getting all into soccer even though the world cup isn't for several months. La Liga starts back tomorrow and my boys FC Barcelona are playing Villarreal CF tomorrow at 11:00 AM PST and I'm stoked.

theonion.com - Report: Most College Males Admit to Regularly Getting Stoked

352 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:47:55pm

re: #348 Spare O'Lake

It's precisely what you said, you foul-mouthed lib. You just couldn't resist tossing in the gratuitous little race barb at the end of your comment about disabilities, could you?

What race barb?

353 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:48:08pm

re: #348 Spare O'Lake

It's precisely what you said, you foul-mouthed lib. You just couldn't resist tossing in the gratuitous little race barb at the end of your comment about disabilities, could you?

Here let me show you foul mouthed. Go fuck yourself in the ass with a barbed wire condom you moronic hater.

Just for you sweet cheeks.

354 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:48:25pm

re: #347 windsagio

Saying 'Communists are always murderous' is kinda wacky.

I've found that Bay Area communists are especially anti-authoritarian, which is also kind of whacky given communism's history of violence.

355 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:48:59pm

re: #263 Stuart Leviton

I meant that while boot blacking initially referred to the black shoe polish, that there is a Jim Crow history related to boot blacking. And that history is omitted from the Wikipedia entry - something I consider an important mistake (oversight?) on their part.

The next question is 'why'? Why does African-American history slither down the drain? Or is the question how? But does our society pay homage to black history grudgingly? I'm not quite sure what the question is that I wish to ask. So unfortunately, it leaves it to you the reader to help me out.

I am often surprised to realize that the name Bayard Rustin means nothing to most people, even in the African-American community.

Teh ghey. It's teh ghey.

356 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:49:01pm

Hey, where're the white women at?

I link because ridicule is one of the most potent weapons.

357 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:49:11pm

re: #344 iceweasel

Great, we'll keep you on standby so that when someone does make an analogy drawing that point-- as opposed to the point that people often treat minorities and the disabled in similar ways-- you can rebut it.

Until then? Maybe someone on craigslist encounters has placed an ad "Disabled argument seeks strawman". Go check.

you need to spend more time in America...get out and about a little more, get off the internet and see some of the heartland...might quell some of your anger and temper your misconceptions a bit if you knew us better

358 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:49:23pm

re: #335 metrolibertarian

Among other things he did accomplish includes the mass murder of Cambodians with his carpet bombing thereby creating a vacuum within the country which allowed the Khmer Rouge to take over. And the coup that led to the fascist Augusto Pinochet to take power. It's a pity there's no hell for Nixon to suffer in for eternity.

My, all the left-wing canards. Let's dissect them one at a time, shall we:

1. Nixon did not cause the mass murders by the Khmer Rouge. The vacuum you describe was caused by the Cambodian Army's defeat in Operation Chenla II in 1971. The carpet bombing had little to do with it. Rather, it was the result of Cambodian weakness vis-a-vis the NVA.

2. Pinochet was better than the alternative. Given the chance, Allende would have continued to push Chile towards Communism and the bloodshed would have been even worse. The choice was stage a coup or lose the country. Nixon chose the former and I regard that as the correct decision.

359 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:49:45pm

re: #272 The Sanity Inspector

Has anyone ever held the door for a feminist, and gotten a scolding for being a condescending patriarchial oppressor for your trouble?

Me neither. Most people appreciate simple good manners.

But...but...all those guys on the Internet said...

/

360 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:49:59pm

re: #354 eclectic infidel

I've found that Bay Area communists are especially anti-authoritarian, which is also kind of whacky given communism's history of violence.

Huh? Communists who are anti-authoritarian? Isn't that an oxymoron?

361 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:50:06pm

Sigh. Can we not flame each other?
/Kumbaya~ :)

362 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:50:27pm

re: #357 albusteve

you need to spend more time in America...get out and about a little more, get off the internet and see some of the heartland...might quell some of your anger and temper your misconceptions a bit if you knew us better

This coming from a person who is on LGF basically 20 hours a day spouting nonstop nonsense just to see what sticks.

363 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:50:30pm

re: #344 iceweasel
You wrote..

as opposed to the point that people often treat minorities and the disabled in similar ways

after I wrote .

the analogy that being a minority is somehow akin to a disability.

"In similar ways" says the same thing as "somehow akin". I don't like the analogy that you admit you are making. But I like your passive aggressive reaction. Right on queue.

364 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:50:41pm

re: #353 Locker

Here let me show you foul mouthed. Go fuck yourself in the ass with a barbed wire condom you moronic hater.

Just for you sweet cheeks.

pfft...that all you got?...hahaha!

365 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:51:22pm

re: #360 acwgusa

Things are different in California. :/

366 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:52:00pm

This isn't funny. Barbed wire condoms really hurt.

367 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:52:20pm

re: #353 Locker

Here let me show you foul mouthed. Go fuck yourself in the ass with a barbed wire condom you moronic hater.

Just for you sweet cheeks.

Not even close, twirp. When it comes to foul language you couldn't even shine her shoes.

368 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:52:55pm

re: #365 eclectic infidel

Things are different in California. :/

I know. I live in Southern California. I thought I was missing something in my understanding of communism. Where are they going to get the force to distribute property and money equally if not by an authoritarian state?

369 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:52:59pm

re: #288 Mich-again

I'm not sure how much "being white" gets a person special priveleges these days unless you mean getting treated nicer by racists. As for being treated as "invisible", to me that would be the sign of a color-blind society.

I've never had clothes I put on hold at a nice department store 'accidentally' get put away while I was gone, happens to my black friends a lot.

I've never been asked whose maid I was while waiting for the bus in a nice neighborhood, happened to an Asian friend.

I'm pretty damn sure I've watched a boss pass over two qualified black women to hire the white girl.

It's not like it was. But it's not dead yet.

370 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:53:01pm

re: #362 Locker

This coming from a person who is on LGF basically 20 hours a day spouting nonstop nonsense just to see what sticks.

man, you have some serious issues...jolly up!

371 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:53:06pm

re: #358 Dark_Falcon

Pinochet came to power on 11 September 1973.

/365 days in a year makes for some odd coincidences, e.g. the Fall of the Berlin Wall and Kristallnacht.

372 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:53:15pm

re: #347 windsagio

Saying 'Communists are always murderous' is kinda wacky.

You're right. The Soviet Union, China, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, East Germany, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Albania all had very busy dungeons. But San Marino had a communist government for a while, and avoided this. So, obviously I'm full of it.

/

373 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:53:16pm

re: #362 Locker

re: #364 albusteve

Stop the sniping please! It doesn't get us anywhere.

374 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:53:37pm

re: #370 albusteve

man, you have some serious issues...jolly up! WHY SO SERIOUS?

/ 8D

375 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:54:02pm

re: #343 eclectic infidel

What I took from this:

-1-(s)he conflated the two 'labels'

-2-not being disabled is equivalent to a privilege

-3-being white is a privilege whether we're aware of said privilege or not

I conflated nothing. Some people here are (unsurprisingly) unaware of, or choosing to play dumb about, the word 'privilege' and its use (admittedly in mostly academic writing).

The point about this kind of privilege is that it is largely invisible to those who are members of the class that has it. So, for example, a white person can be very conversant with all the ways in which racism has affected say black people in quantifiable ways: slavery, discrimination, Jim Crow-- yet be necessarily ignorant of how the lived experience of being black informs the experience of being a black man (or woman).

It's the difference between knowing as a white person that discrimination exists and being the black lawyer from Harvard wearing a suit who can't hail a cab.

376 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:54:05pm

re: #374 laZardo

/ 8D

Do you want to know how I got these scars.......?

377 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:54:05pm

re: #293 McSpiff

Resumes with "white" names result in more interviews.

Except for young Adolf Hitler Campbell. I suspect he will be passed over in favor of De'Andre Jones many times, unless he has the sense to change his name to Henry.

378 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:54:38pm

re: #373 Dark_Falcon

re: #364 albusteve

Stop the sniping please! It doesn't get us anywhere.

And if you must, go play CoD or MW2 or TF or some such.
/:)

379 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:54:49pm

re: #297 The Sanity Inspector

Chris Rock proposed an acid test. Think of the happiest, most admired, popular black person you can think of. Would you trade places with them?

Well, Tiger is having a rough year...

380 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:55:05pm

re: #378 Varek Raith

And if you must, go play CoD or MW2 or TF or some such.
/:)

But sniping's a good job, mate. Excellent work, out of doors...

381 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:55:07pm

re: #373 Dark_Falcon

re: #364 albusteve

Stop the sniping please! It doesn't get us anywhere.

notice a pattern here?...I don't give a fuck about attack dog name callers, I get bored I vanish

382 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:55:28pm

re: #379 SanFranciscoZionist

Still, half of $600 million is nothing to be depressed about.

383 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:55:54pm

re: #350 WindHorse

A nice song for an evening like this...

Such a night, indeed.

384 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:56:00pm

re: #371 laZardo

Pinochet came to power on 11 September 1973.

/365 days in a year makes for some odd coincidences, e.g. the Fall of the Berlin Wall and Kristallnacht.

Those last two were on November 9th. November 10th is both the day Chicago North Side Gang leader Dean O'Banion was gunned down in 1924 and the day I was born in 1977.

385 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:56:14pm

re: #368 acwgusa

I know. I live in Southern California. I thought I was missing something in my understanding of communism. Where are they going to get the force to distribute property and money equally if not by an authoritarian state?

I think *they are operating under the assumption that people will magically come together to overthrow the capitalist overlords.

*The remnants of the aging hippies in Berkeley; the younger ones tend to be more radicalized.

386 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:56:18pm

re: #372 The Sanity Inspector

Most of those communist hippies sure loved murder! (Well the manson family aside, I Think they were commies too).

Repressive authoritarian governments tend to murder. It has alot less to do with the political philosophy they proclaim than with the way they maintain control.

387 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:56:27pm

re: #380 laZardo

But sniping's a good job, mate. Excellent work, out of doors...

In games like that, I'm always a sniper. Muhahaha, all your spawn points are belong to me!
/

388 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:57:00pm

re: #373 Dark_Falcon

re: #364 albusteve

Stop the sniping please! It doesn't get us anywhere.

Hey you call it sniping, I call it taking out the trash. See, if you let the trash hang around, it gets stinky. Yes, removal can be a bit messy but it's better in the long run.

389 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:57:03pm

re: #352 Gus 802

What race barb?

To conflate discrimination against disabled people with an idiotic allegation that having white skin is a privilege which whitey takes for granted. That was a gratuitous racial barb which cheapened the preceding point about the disabled.

390 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:57:25pm

re: #381 albusteve

notice a pattern here?...I don't give a fuck about attack dog name callers, I get caught in an untruth I vanish

You seemed to have a typo, I fixed it for you.

/no charge!

391 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:57:39pm

re: #387 Varek Raith

In games like that, I'm always a sniper. Muhahaha, all your spawn points are belong to me!
/

You snipers have the patience of Gob. Give me a shotty and a frag grenade any day.

392 Escaped Hillbilly  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:57:49pm

re: #272 The Sanity Inspector

Has anyone ever held the door for a feminist, and gotten a scolding for being a condescending patriarchial oppressor for your trouble?

Me neither. Most people appreciate simple good manners.

I once scolded my boyfriend for it. He was carrying several packages and almost dropped them AND kept me standing in the frigid wind while he fumbled with the door. I should have held the door for him. His insistence on holding it was sexism. Ordinarily I would say thank you. The difference is really helping.

393 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:58:11pm

re: #382 jaunte

Still, half of $600 million is nothing to be depressed about.

No, but divorcing/ considering divorce of a man you loved, and have 2 children with, in such circumstances, is not a happy place to be in.

394 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:59:02pm

re: #128 allegro

I'm a white woman. I have experienced major discrimination as a woman in our culture and have fought to overcome it my entire life, as have all women who have attempted to live to their potential. At that same time, I know I have experienced the privilege of having been born with white skin, which has enabled me to live a life of privilege, meaning the right to a suprior public education, living in "proper" society, being upwardly mobile in any neighborhood and class I wanted to participate in. Anyone with white skin who does not recognize that privilege we experience in our culture, at the expense of those who are no so privileged who contribute to our lifestyles and fortunes, needs to take another look.

Those of us who are white have a special responsibility to recognize the privilege we have simply by the virtue of the color of our skin.
Beyond recognizing it we need to act as allies to people of color in deconstructing inequity. That what Charles is trying to do with this wonderful site and every one here who understands this.

395 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:59:03pm

re: #389 Spare O'Lake

an idiotic allegation that having white skin is a privilege which whitey takes for granted.


In my experience, this is true, and pointing it out not idiotic.

396 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:59:20pm

re: #357 albusteve

you need to spend more time in America...get out and about a little more, get off the internet and see some of the heartland...might quell some of your anger and temper your misconceptions a bit if you knew us better

Actually, shithead, I think you need to reexamine your ideas about how much time I've spent in America. I'm pretty tired of that old smear that I'm not American, and the demands for my birth certificate, and the demands to know who I have voted for.

BTW, morons who insist you're not well-travelled until you spend 'more' time in the 'heartland' are just as idiotic and provinicial as someone who insists you're not well-travelled until you're visited, say, Paris.

I laughed when you ran this 'argument' on Killgore and told him he wasn't well-travelled until he went to...where was it again? Arkansas? missouri?

You kept moving your wingnutty goalposts all around the US until you imagined you found a state he hadn't been to.

397 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:59:50pm

re: #390 windsagio

You seemed to have a typo, I fixed it for you.

/no charge!

fixed it for you!....how juvenile...need a ding too?

398 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:59:57pm

re: #360 acwgusa

Huh? Communists who are anti-authoritarian? Isn't that an oxymoron?

Those are people who wear Che shirts without knowing anything about him. Such as, they'd be the first down the stairs to the execution cellars, if people like Che came to power.

399 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:59:59pm

re: #385 eclectic infidel

I think *they are operating under the assumption that people will magically come together to overthrow the capitalist overlords.

*The remnants of the aging hippies in Berkeley; the younger ones tend to be more radicalized.

We can't get people to agree on Coke or Pepsi, Kirk or Picard, Star Trek or Star Wars and they think people are going to come together to overthrow the capitalists? I think they need to stop drinking the bong water.

400 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:00:02pm

re: #379 SanFranciscoZionist

Tough year? In a heartbeat.

401 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:00:06pm

I can't stop browsing allrecipes.com. This place is addicting.

402 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:00:26pm

re: #382 jaunte

Still, half of $600 million is nothing to be depressed about.

Sigh...I like being me. I wouldn't want to be someone else. But in an abstract way, I'd change places with Kamala Harris.

403 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:00:39pm

re: #388 Locker

Oh, now you're calling a long time respected poster "trash"?! If that's your position, then I cordially invite you to Fuck Off!

404 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:01:09pm

I do think that by and large, middle class and rich people don't really like being around poor people of any race very much. At least some amount of what is perceived as racism is more correctly desribed as an aversion that people with money have to people without money. Now for why so many minorities find themselves in the lower income level, that is an entire discussion on its own and theres no doubt that true racism has a lot to do with that but its not the only factor.

405 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:01:47pm

re: #403 Dark_Falcon

Oh, now you're calling a long time respected poster "trash"?! If that's your position, then I cordially invite you to Fuck Off!

I guess you don't want to "get anywhere" either. Welcome to the fray.

406 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:02:28pm

re: #402 SanFranciscoZionist

You have good taste in alter egos.

407 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:02:36pm

The moon this weekend made me think of this:

408 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:02:48pm

re: #405 Locker

I guess you don't want to "get anywhere" either. Welcome to the fray.

All Dark_Falcon was trying to do was avert a pointless flamewar.

409 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:02:52pm
410 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:02:55pm

re: #396 iceweasel

Actually, shithead, I think you need to reexamine your ideas about how much time I've spent in America. I'm pretty tired of that old smear that I'm not American, and the demands for my birth certificate, and the demands to know who I have voted for.

BTW, morons who insist you're not well-travelled until you spend 'more' time in the 'heartland' are just as idiotic and provinicial as someone who insists you're not well-travelled until you're visited, say, Paris.

I laughed when you ran this 'argument' on Killgore and told him he wasn't well-travelled until he went to...where was it again? Arkansas? missouri?

You kept moving your wingnutty goalposts all around the US until you imagined you found a state he hadn't been to.

shithead?...thanks, pretty vanilla...I see the KT thing went over your head, you are just too angry, vain, and thin skinned....BOO!

411 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:03:16pm

re: #397 albusteve


I got one thanks!

412 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:03:25pm

re: #368 acwgusa

I know. I live in Southern California. I thought I was missing something in my understanding of communism. Where are they going to get the force to distribute property and money equally if not by an authoritarian state?

They think that everyone will be as dazzled by unicorns and rainbows as they are, and simply do it. G. K. Chesterton had their number 100 years ago:

And the weakness of all Utopias is this, that they take the greatest difficulty of man and assume it to be overcome, and then give an elaborate account of the overcoming of the smaller ones. They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motor-car or balloon.

413 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:03:33pm

re: #289 Gus 802Thank you. The topic of racism - or more importantly for me the effects of racism - is too important for me to stop here. I thank you for your guidance and hope you share more of your knowledge and wisdom.re: #327 laZardo

Good tactics despite the Cultural Revolution, seeing as how China was falling out with the Soviets by then.

I consider China, Nixon's most important point - though obviously not to belittle my beloved Israel.

At the same time there are obvious weaknesses in the China policy and especially the legacy of Nixon's Southern Strategy. I mention these two more as open questions that I have. I know little about these things.

414 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:03:51pm

re: #404 Mich-again

I do think that by and large, middle class and rich people don't really like being around poor people of any race very much. At least some amount of what is perceived as racism is more correctly desribed as an aversion that people with money have to people without money. Now for why so many minorities find themselves in the lower income level, that is an entire discussion on its own and theres no doubt that true racism has a lot to do with that but its not the only factor.

We the People of the United States of America will talk about race until the cows come home, if the other alternative is to talk about class.

There are advantages to this. There are also disadvantages.

415 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:03:52pm

re: #402 SanFranciscoZionist

Sigh...I like being me. I wouldn't want to be someone else. But in an abstract way, I'd change places with Kamala Harris.

Well... I googled her and I see a Kamala Harris who's running for Attorney General. Would that be the one?

416 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:03:55pm

re: #399 acwgusa

We can't get people to agree on Coke or Pepsi, Kirk or Picard, Star Trek or Star Wars and they think people are going to come together to overthrow the capitalists? I think they need to stop drinking the bong water.

We can only hope that if they consume enough of the bong water, that they'll be too spaced out to get out of bed for early morning protests. Opting instead to sleep in, listen to NPR and sip organic locally grown totally green environmentally friendly to all known sentient lifeforms coffee.

417 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:04:20pm

re: #389 Spare O'Lake

To conflate discrimination against disabled people with an idiotic allegation that having white skin is a privilege which whitey takes for granted. That was a gratuitous racial barb which cheapened the preceding point about the disabled.

That's not a barb. It's perfectly valid because race and handicaps are both immutable. While some handicaps can be mutable in the context she speaks of they're not. That is one cannot conceal the color of their skin as one cannot conceal their blindness.

Privilege could be replaced with advantage. With regards to race it is statistically provable with regards to most facets of society and even life expectancy. It is natural for people to be complacent with their own advantages unless they're empathetic to the concerns of others -- that is unless they've walked a mile in their shoes.

This would be regarding average populations. Economic advantages can outweigh racially caused disadvantages.

418 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:05:00pm

re: #384 Dark_Falcon

Those last two were on November 9th. November 10th is both the day Chicago North Side Gang leader Dean O'Banion was gunned down in 1924 and the day I was born in 1977.

Lucky you. July 19th is my birthday and that of Samuel "yeah, the gun guy" Colt.

419 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:05:04pm

re: #415 Locker

Well... I googled her and I see a Kamala Harris who's running for Attorney General. Would that be the one?

Black and Hindu? Stunningly gorgeous? Yeh, her.

420 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:05:06pm

re: #416 eclectic infidel

We can only hope that if they consume enough of the bong water, that they'll be too spaced out to get out of bed for early morning protests. Opting instead to sleep in, listen to NPR and sip organic locally grown totally green environmentally friendly to all known sentient lifeforms coffee.

Man don't drink the bong water. It will make you sick and not get you high. Kind of hard to hear NPR if you are puking in the bathtub.

421 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:05:15pm

re: #403 Dark_Falcon

Oh, now you're calling a long time respected poster "trash"?! If that's your position, then I cordially invite you to Fuck Off!

it's the new pink around here...lot's of name calling and anger by the noobs

422 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:05:59pm

re: #399 acwgusa

We can't get people to agree on Coke or Pepsi, Kirk or Picard, Star Trek or Star Wars and they think people are going to come together to overthrow the capitalists? I think they need to stop drinking the bong water.

Pepsi, Janeway, Star Wars.

/I'm sorry. Voyager was the first Star Trek series I actually watched for more than one episode. ;_;

423 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:06:04pm

re: #389 Spare O'Lake

To conflate discrimination against disabled people with an idiotic allegation that having white skin is a privilege which whitey takes for granted. That was a gratuitous racial barb which cheapened the preceding point about the disabled.

BTW, Spare, have you given up claiming that you weren't slamming Jimmah in this comment?

You got called out for it this morning by others, and decided to play stupid and pretend it was wholly inadvertent. That didn't work out so well for you, so you ran off and now you're back, being both an arsehole and an asshole.

424 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:06:20pm

re: #419 SanFranciscoZionist

Black and Hindu? Stunningly gorgeous? Yeh, her.

Laugh, thought so. Wife works at AG office for JB.

425 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:06:42pm

re: #404 Mich-again

What leads you to think that?
I live in LA. In a very suburban neighborhood. Some of us can easily afford to live here, or elsewhere. Others are scraping to live here. I'll grant you it's all "middle class" but it it the ONLY place I have ever lived in LA, where you can make a left turn against rush hour traffic, because folks stop & let you out. Hollywood Hills, richer & way poor, never get let out in traffic. Horns galore.
Some people CHOOSE to live in a polite environment, others choose not to.

426 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:06:44pm

Clearly some people never saw Eddie Murphy's documentary expose of life as a white man on SNL in the early '80s.

427 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:07:01pm

re: #421 albusteve

it's the new pink around here...lot's of name calling and anger by the noobs

Yup, clearly just noobs doing that. That's the ticket.

428 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:07:07pm

re: #385 eclectic infidel

I think *they are operating under the assumption that people will magically come together to overthrow the capitalist overlords.

*The remnants of the aging hippies in Berkeley; the younger ones tend to be more radicalized.

*snort!* They imagine themselves to be rebels against society, when in fact they are its wards.

429 SteveC  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:07:08pm

re: #389 Spare O'Lake

To conflate discrimination against disabled people with an idiotic allegation that having white skin is a privilege which whitey takes for granted.

My disability (Congenital Heart Defect) is invisible so I rarely see the kind of discrimination you are speaking of. I have no doubt it exists, but it is not aimed at me.

I have also noticed that when CHD survivors get together, the large majority of us tend to be White. At the last seminar I spoke at there were 300 people there, 75% White, 25% Asian. I could count the African Americans on one hand.

When a child is born with a severe heart defect, his/her parents will have to have a lot of financial resources to provide the appropriate medical care. That's a form of discrimination itself, because hearts aren't White.

430 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:07:15pm

re: #422 laZardo

Pepsi, Janeway, Star Wars.

/I'm sorry. Voyager was the first Star Trek series I actually watched for more than one episode. ;_;

Coke, ShatnerKirk and Picard, First set of Star Wars, prequels sucked.

431 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:07:24pm

re: #426 Girth

Utterly fantastic reference. I love when he's on the bus and they turn on the music and pass out snacks.

432 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:07:49pm

re: #423 iceweasel

You might be right about that, but in fairness, people here have been referring to Carter as Jimmah for years.

433 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:07:54pm

In light of Patrick Stewart being Knighted; :)

434 Escaped Hillbilly  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:08:32pm

re: #369 SanFranciscoZionist

Ok, you've probably never had anybody look over your head to wait on the person behind you as I have. I am really tired of the white = priveledge crap. Try growing up poor and white, worse poor, white, and female. There is no doubting being black can be a real pain in the ass, institutional racism exists and I'm not denying it. But being white does not confer much if any benefit if you are poor. You will not get hired before a well dressed black. You will be assumed to be stupid and lazy. No small part of racism can be attributed to the lower socioencomic class of the victim. Conversely, racism can contribute to socioeconomic disparities, worsening the effect. Ok, you probably realize that. Sorry to go on abou this but I really can't stand the selfexcoriating "I'm a priveledged white." line. It feels a littel bit like a scolding. I have never, ever gotten a job, a position in line, a better deal etc. because I was white

435 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:08:33pm
436 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:09:00pm

stooping to dragging up old posts to continue a fight...funs over for me...I'm out

437 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:09:07pm

This thread is entertaining. I hereby declare it the rough equivalent of peeing in the pool.

My contribution: I have driven twice from Dallas to Grand Island, NE., which took me through some of what is apparently the 'heartland'. Let me just say that if that's the 'heartland', then the 'heartland' sucks donkey balls, seriously. Eleven billion miles of omnidirectional NOTHING. I think I saw three cows and a truckstop.

438 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:09:14pm

re: #426 Girth

Clearly some people never saw Eddie Murphy's documentary expose of life as a white man on SNL in the early '80s.

Oh we have to post it, I've been thinking of it ever since I posted about 'privilege'.

439 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:09:45pm

re: #432 jaunte

You might be right about that, but in fairness, people here have been referring to Carter as Jimmah for years.

Agreed. Here on LGF, that term has often been used to refer to Carter. No slur against your husband is intended, ice.

440 albusteve  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:09:54pm

re: #427 McSpiff

Yup, clearly just noobs doing that. That's the ticket.

what would you know, you're one yourself....

441 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:09:55pm

It sucks when people hold you accountable for what you say.

442 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:09:56pm

re: #402 SanFranciscoZionist

Sigh...I like being me. I wouldn't want to be someone else. But in an abstract way, I'd change places with Kamala Harris.

I'd be happy to change places with Beyonce.

443 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:10:21pm

re: #439 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Here on LGF, that term has often been used to refer to Carter. No slur against your husband is intended, ice.

LIVINALIE! JIMMAH!

/i'm sorry.

444 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:10:31pm

re: #420 Locker

But if the aging communists in Berkeley remained home because of said consumption, that would be a good thing. That was my entire point. Even if it is just a fantasy.

445 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:10:40pm

re: #440 albusteve

what would you know, you're one yourself...

You've posted more than enough bile to prove my point.

446 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:10:55pm

re: #438 iceweasel

Oh we have to post it, I've been thinking of it ever since I posted about 'privilege'.

Odd thing is that you weren't the first one to mention it.

447 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:10:58pm

re: #442 sagehen

It could be a sweet dream. Or a beautiful nightmare.

448 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:11:04pm

re: #437 negativ

....you should have stopped and talked to the people along the way...... it may have proven enlightening.

449 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:11:20pm

re: #434 Escaped Hillbilly

Your story reminds me of People's History of the United States. Howard Zinn talks about classism. Basically about how poor whites and poor blacks had more in common with each other than with the rich. The rich, not wanting these two groups to united against them, encourages racism to keep these groups divisive and thus, stuck at the bottom.

450 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:11:30pm

re: #429 SteveC

My disability (Congenital Heart Defect) is invisible so I rarely see the kind of discrimination you are speaking of. I have no doubt it exists, but it is not aimed at me.

I have also noticed that when CHD survivors get together, the large majority of us tend to be White. At the last seminar I spoke at there were 300 people there, 75% White, 25% Asian. I could count the African Americans on one hand.

When a child is born with a severe heart defect, his/her parents will have to have a lot of financial resources to provide the appropriate medical care. That's a form of discrimination itself, because hearts aren't White.

True, but money will always increase the survival odds. Its not fair, but that's the way it is.

451 Roentgen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:11:38pm

Just saw the pic: Johnson you lucky bastard.

452 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:11:52pm

re: #431 Locker

[Link: www.hulu.com...]

453 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:11:57pm

re: #395 jaunte

In my experience, this is true, and pointing it out not idiotic.

You really think racism derives from whites taking their skin colour for granted? I don't believe that for a minute. I think white racists wake up every morning and thank their lucky stars that they are white. Racists are extremely colour concious and their racism is learned and is deliberate...not at all due to something as innocent as taking a privilege for granted.
I would ask lizards to think about it instead of just joining the libthink herd mentality.

454 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:12:07pm

re: #432 jaunte

You might be right about that, but in fairness, people here have been referring to Carter as Jimmah for years.

I'm completely aware of that--and I am right. This, and using the word 'arsehole' rather than asshole, was Spare o Lake's utterly craven and completely typical way of continuing his nasty little flamewar against Jimmah, myself, and other libs. But especially Jimmah and myself.

BTW, it's pretty easy for Spare to disprove me. All he has to do is not act like a total fucking asshole launching flamewars and crazed attacks against libs. Should be easy, right?

455 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:12:49pm

re: #422 laZardo

Pepsi, Janeway, Star Wars.

/I'm sorry. Voyager was the first Star Trek series I actually watched for more than one episode. ;_;

wrong, wrong and wrong.

Dr. Pepper, Sisko and Stargate.

456 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:13:27pm

re: #455 sagehen

Sisko was the man.

457 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:13:43pm

re: #446 Gus 802

Odd thing is that you weren't the first one to mention it.

And yet oddly, this is now all about me being a racist, and using the word 'privilege'.

You'd almost think there were something personal motivating all this.

458 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:13:49pm

re: #431 Locker

Utterly fantastic reference. I love when he's on the bus and they turn on the music and pass out snacks.

I like when the white banker tells the black one to go to lunch, and then starts handing cash over.

459 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:13:51pm

re: #386 windsagio

Most of those communist hippies sure loved murder! (Well the manson family aside, I Think they were commies too).

Repressive authoritarian governments tend to murder. It has alot less to do with the political philosophy they proclaim than with the way they maintain control.

Negatomic, my friend. After all this time, it's hard for most people to imagine that communists weren't always just scrawny humanities professors in black turtlenecks and pathetic beards. Communism used to be a living, burning faith, as real and adamant as the faith of the most implacable Inquisitor. An ordinary tinpot dictator can be diverted, bribed, cajoled. But people who regard themselves as the wave of the future, Justice Incarnate, in a fight to the death with the rotten, dying past--well, there's no brake on the evil they will work.

460 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:13:51pm

re: #455 sagehen

wrong, wrong and wrong.

Dr. Pepper, Sisko and Stargate.

Stone the unbeliever!


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

461 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:13:57pm

re: #410 albusteve

I bought some throwback Pepsi at the grocery store yesterday. Limited time only, made with real sugar, not corn syrup. When I took the first gulp, it immediately made me think of slamming a cold Pepsi at a sandlot baseball game 30 years ago. If you haven't seen this, look for it. Its awesome.

462 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:13:58pm

I was gonna resist, but eff it.

Appealing to seniority, especially in a flame war is just sad.

463 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:14:00pm

re: #449 Locker

If you believe anything that asshole Zinn says, then you have truly drunk the Commie Kool Aid. The man is an anti-American leftist.

464 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:14:10pm

re: #453 Spare O'Lake

Yes Spare. If people disagree with you, they're simply following the herd.

465 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:14:17pm

re: #455 sagehen

re: #456 JasonA


On a totally different note, whats with the DS9/Voyager love on this site? If I ever wanted to flounce, that'd be why!

466 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:14:53pm

re: #453 Spare O'Lake

You really think racism derives from whites taking their skin colour for granted?

Funnily enough, no one here has made that claim. Weird, huh?

467 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:14:55pm

re: #465 windsagio

re: #456 JasonA

On a totally different note, whats with the DS9/Voyager love on this site? If I ever wanted to flounce, that'd be why!

Could be worse. Could be Enterprise.

468 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:14:57pm
469 jaunte  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:15:10pm

re: #453 Spare O'Lake

You really think racism derives from whites taking their skin colour for granted?


No, I don't.
I think white racists wake up every morning and thank their lucky stars that they are white. Racists are extremely colour concious and their racism is learned and is deliberate...not at all due to something as innocent as taking a privilege for granted.


Both of these behaviors are happening, one is not necessarily the cause of the other.

470 SteveC  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:15:34pm

re: #450 Dark_Falcon

True, but money will always increase the survival odds. Its not fair, but that's the way it is.

Bingo! My parents weren't rich, but they had enough to figure out that Johns Hopkins Hospital was the best place in the world for me and get me there. What makes me want to kick the wall is when a young couple (of any color) just starting out have a child with a major medical problem. A lot of times, they don't make it any further than their community hospital.

471 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:15:39pm

re: #402 SanFranciscoZionist

Sigh...I like being me. I wouldn't want to be someone else. But in an abstract way, I'd change places with Kamala Harris.

Ummm, wouldn't this require shacking up with Willie Brown?

472 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:15:47pm

re: #459 The Sanity Inspector

woah woah, thats different from 'always murderous'. Thats the beef.

I'm not arguing that communist regimes weren't big trouble >>

473 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:15:57pm

The guy at 1:18 has a very disturbing mustache.

474 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:16:02pm

re: #468 Scooter McGruder

A sleeping troll awakes.

475 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:16:13pm

re: #463 Dark_Falcon

If you believe anything that asshole Zinn says, then you have truly drunk the Commie Kool Aid. The man is an anti-American leftist.

I don't have to believe it. His book is meticulously researched and referenced. That's what happens when you read something by an intellectual. It's actually backed up instead of just made up.

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:16:30pm

re: #434 Escaped Hillbilly

Ok, you've probably never had anybody look over your head to wait on the person behind you as I have. I am really tired of the white = priveledge crap. Try growing up poor and white, worse poor, white, and female. There is no doubting being black can be a real pain in the ass, institutional racism exists and I'm not denying it. But being white does not confer much if any benefit if you are poor. You will not get hired before a well dressed black. You will be assumed to be stupid and lazy. No small part of racism can be attributed to the lower socioencomic class of the victim. Conversely, racism can contribute to socioeconomic disparities, worsening the effect. Ok, you probably realize that. Sorry to go on abou this but I really can't stand the selfexcoriating "I'm a priveledged white." line. It feels a littel bit like a scolding. I have never, ever gotten a job, a position in line, a better deal etc. because I was white

I'm not 'self-excoriating'. But I know some things about how being white has helped me. I'm not going to take a scolding for noticing, either, and please do not assume that I haven't been discriminated against on class grounds.

I'm going to say, as well, you don't always know when you're getting something. I'm pretty sure the white girl we hired at my office never thought her skin color got her anything. And I would never have said a word to her, because she wasn't the schmuck who decided she'd look better at the desk.

Please don't take this as me saying a person automatically gets it easy in life because of being white. That's stupid. But noticing racism isn't guilt-tripping, it's just noticing.

477 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:16:35pm

re: #461 Mich-again

I bought some throwback Pepsi at the grocery store yesterday. Limited time only, made with real sugar, not corn syrup. When I took the first gulp, it immediately made me think of slamming a cold Pepsi at a sandlot baseball game 30 years ago. If you haven't seen this, look for it. Its awesome.

Are they selling that again? If any cans are left, can you tell me the expiration date?

478 laZardo  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:16:40pm

Discussion about blacks and whites aside, this person of a medium shade of gray must go have lunch. :O BBL.

479 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:16:46pm

re: #467 acwgusa

God I'm out of touch. I Liked Enterprise, alot. Second favorite after TOS.

480 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:17:19pm

re: #474 Varek Raith

hah, I actually saw that one before it got deleted!

481 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:17:20pm

re: #479 windsagio

God I'm out of touch. I Liked Enterprise, alot. Second favorite after TOS.

It was better in Season Four, right when it got canned.

482 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:17:22pm

re: #442 sagehen

I'd be happy to change places with Beyonce.

I don't think I'd like to be an entertainer.

483 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:17:22pm

re: #462 windsagio

I was gonna resist, but eff it.

Appealing to seniority, especially in a flame war is just sad.

When anyone does that, just remind them that many of their long time 'friends' are now banned and posting all kinds of vile shit elsewhere.

484 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:17:23pm

re: #474 Varek Raith

A sleeping troll awakes.

As usual. These posts really flush them out of the shrubbery.

485 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:17:39pm

re: #468 Scooter McGruder

To be unable to find racism in the image is a sign of a deficient intellect and to defend it is a sign (at the very least) of a racist apologist.

486 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:17:44pm

re: #474 Varek Raith

A sleeping troll awakes.

And promptly meets the ban stick.

487 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:17:53pm

re: #478 laZardo

Discussion about blacks and whites aside, this person of a medium shade of gray must go have lunch. :O BBL.

Gray? You're a...a....

ZOMBIE!

*Aaaahhhh! Runs and consults zombie survival manual*

488 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:18:15pm

re: #453 Spare O'Lake

You really think racism derives from whites taking their skin colour for granted? I don't believe that for a minute. I think white racists wake up every morning and thank their lucky stars that they are white. Racists are extremely colour concious and their racism is learned and is deliberate...not at all due to something as innocent as taking a privilege for granted.
I would ask lizards to think about it instead of just joining the libthink herd mentality.

"Libthink herd mentality".

Oy. I try so hard.

489 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:18:22pm

re: #461 Mich-again

I bought some throwback Pepsi at the grocery store yesterday. Limited time only, made with real sugar, not corn syrup. When I took the first gulp, it immediately made me think of slamming a cold Pepsi at a sandlot baseball game 30 years ago. If you haven't seen this, look for it. Its awesome.

I had some the other. the difference is amazing. I try to avoid HFCS as it is.

490 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:18:28pm

re: #322 iceweasel

Someone else is going to have to explain to you what is meant by the concept of 'white privilege'-- the genuine article. Not in the mood for it myself tonight.

re: #435 sagehen

White privilege checklist

That pretty much sums up my life.

491 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:18:31pm

re: #484 Charles

As usual. These posts really flush them out of the shrubbery.

Class of 2004 again.

492 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:18:32pm

re: #483 iceweasel

I'z a stealin' that!

493 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:18:52pm

re: #478 laZardo

Discussion about blacks and whites aside, this person of a medium shade of gray must go have lunch. :O BBL.

You're gray? Check for fang marks!

494 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:19:03pm

re: #455 sagehen

wrong, wrong and wrong.

Dr. Pepper, Sisko and Stargate.

I vote for Coke, Sisko and Stargate, but only SG1.

495 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:19:17pm

re: #474 Varek Raith

A sleeping troll awakes.

And is quickly put back to (permanent) sleep!

496 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:19:51pm

re: #481 acwgusa

The only bad season really was 3. It had the problem of DS9 and Voyager (and Galactica) where it took itself too seriously.

497 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:20:09pm

re: #477 Dark_Falcon

Ink jet label on the bottom of the can says September 13 10. Not sure of the Born On date.

498 Escaped Hillbilly  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:20:19pm

re: #449 Locker

Your story reminds me of People's History of the United States. Howard Zinn talks about classism. Basically about how poor whites and poor blacks had more in common with each other than with the rich. The rich, not wanting these two groups to united against them, encourages racism to keep these groups divisive and thus, stuck at the bottom.

Nah, its not some kind of conspiracy. Just human nature. Of course racism exists, for lots of reasons. I was just saying I don't appreciate when people claim everyone benefits from being white. You have to understand my mother was born to tenant farmers in rural Tennessee. It's hard short of outright slavery to be poorer and more disadvantaged. Our family has been working its way up the socioeconomic ladder ever since. Hopefully my son will be firmly entrenched in the middle class soon.

499 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:20:20pm

re: #468 Scooter McGruder

Poorly said.

What that quote tells me is that yet another person takes no issue with the underlying prejudice in the image. It's also another classic example of deflecting the issue at hand.

BTW, you suck.

500 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:20:28pm

re: #461 Mich-again

I bought some throwback Pepsi at the grocery store yesterday. Limited time only, made with real sugar, not corn syrup. When I took the first gulp, it immediately made me think of slamming a cold Pepsi at a sandlot baseball game 30 years ago. If you haven't seen this, look for it. Its awesome.

Taquerias around here smuggle real Coke back from Mexico--they ship the good stuff with real sugar down there. I dunno why. If offered the "Mexican Coke" always take it. Pricey but delicious.

501 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:20:40pm

re: #494 SanFranciscoZionist

I vote for Coke, Sisko and Stargate, but only SG1.

It was never the same without O'Neill, though.

502 SteveC  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:20:40pm

re: #455 sagehen

wrong, wrong and wrong.

Dr. Pepper, Sisko and Stargate.

"Everybody who reads comic books knows that the Kirby Silver Surfer is the only true Silver Surfer. Now, am I right or wrong?" - Lt. Commander Ron Hunter, Crimson Tide

503 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:20:48pm

I see that Instapundit is working up his nerve to start taking shots at me now, doing it obliquely through Patterico.

Interesting that none of these people have a word to say about Big Government's major fail, or about Jim Hoft's praise for an antisemitic conspiracy website. But they're right there to play gotcha with a racist image, even though there's no doubt at all that it originated from the right wing.

This is why I can't stand the right wing blogosphere. They're a bunch of liars and backbiters, with no integrity.

504 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:21:14pm

It's never easy for you if you're born a poor black child.

505 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:21:28pm

re: #467 acwgusa

I'll take Vulcan 'neuropressure' from T'Pol all hopped up on Trellium-D for $50, Bob.

506 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:21:44pm

re: #483 iceweasel

When anyone does that, just remind them that many of their long time 'friends' are now banned and posting all kinds of vile shit elsewhere.

Ice, stop that. I don't defend the actions of those people, but some of them were friends to some us here, including me. Some of those people's decisions to flounce really hurt for me. Don't be so cavalier about it. Charles was right to block them, but that doesn't mean I can't feel hurt about the way things went down.

507 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:21:49pm

re: #471 Olsonist

Ummm, wouldn't this require shacking up with Willie Brown?

I think they're done. But if not, heck, he's been around and he'll keep moving.

508 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:21:51pm

re: #423 iceweasel

BTW, Spare, have you given up claiming that you weren't slamming Jimmah in this comment?

You got called out for it this morning by others, and decided to play stupid and pretend it was wholly inadvertent. That didn't work out so well for you, so you ran off and now you're back, being both an arsehole and an asshole.

Hubby butthurt and got you tilting at imaginary windmills?
I didn't choose his stupid nic.

509 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:21:51pm

re: #460 acwgusa

Stone the unbeliever!

///

It's been a while since I've gotten stoned....

//

510 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:22:20pm

re: #347 windsagio

Saying 'Communists are always murderous' is kinda wacky.

I respectfully disagree. Tyranny was one of the weaknesses of Communist theory. You probably can detect I am an old Trot.
May I recommend Orwell's Homage to Catalonia?

511 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:22:44pm

LGF without Iceweasel is like pizza without the pepperoni. Much less spicy and not nearly as tasty. Sooo much more fun when you are around. I swear Jimmah must have used some kind of European goat voodoo on you to close the deal. Well done you lucky sod!

512 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:23:32pm

re: #442 sagehen

I'd be happy to change places with Beyonce.

I'd be happy to trade places with Beyonce's clothes.

/denounces self

513 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:23:32pm

re: #504 Mad Al-Jaffee

It's never easy for you if you're born a poor black child.

I think that's the funniest opening line to a movie ever.

514 bagua  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:23:40pm

Out in the street They Call it Murder


-ini Kamoke
515 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:24:27pm

re: #506 Dark_Falcon

Ice, stop that. I don't defend the actions of those people, but some of them were friends to some us here, including me. Some of those people's decisions to flounce really hurt for me. Don't be so cavalier about it. Charles was right to block them, but that doesn't mean I can't feel hurt about the way things went down.

We thought they were our friends for a long time.
It was sad to find out that they weren't.
They chose to leave.

516 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:24:29pm

re: #486 Dark_Falcon

And promptly meets the ban stick.

The Ban Hammer. :evilgrin:

517 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:24:42pm

re: #497 Mich-again

Ink jet label on the bottom of the can says September 13 10. Not sure of the Born On date.

Thanks. I'll check the grocery stores for it. If there is a new batch of the stuff, I fully intend to stock up on it.

518 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:26:04pm

re: #515 Floral Giraffe

We thought they were our friends for a long time.
It was sad to find out that they weren't.
They chose to leave.

Agreed. That's what made it hurt so bad.

519 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:26:19pm

re: #498 Escaped Hillbilly

Nah, its not some kind of conspiracy. Just human nature. Of course racism exists, for lots of reasons. I was just saying I don't appreciate when people claim everyone benefits from being white. You have to understand my mother was born to tenant farmers in rural Tennessee. It's hard short of outright slavery to be poorer and more disadvantaged. Our family has been working its way up the socioeconomic ladder ever since. Hopefully my son will be firmly entrenched in the middle class soon.

I'm white but not from money. Lower middle class is my background. In Alabama, where my Dad is, even if you are poor you do have certain advantages as person with a "white guy" appearance. Maybe not direct economic advantages but just in the sense of not being profiled by law enforcement.

My parents basically did for us what you are doing for your son. My brother is a Veterinarian (Go Auburn!), my sister works with disabled kids and I'm a programmer. We owe it to them, no doubt.

520 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:26:26pm

re: #490 beekiller

That pretty much sums up my life.

I debated posting about my experience as a temporarily disabled person, because I knew I could count on a certain number of total douchebags taking issue with that post purely because I was the one posting it.

I would have liked to have a genuine and useful discussion about the ways in which privilege (and oppression) function less as forms of systemic legal discrimination in our society, and more as this invisible network that one can't easily see while we're in it.

For example, I could have written you papers or essays or academic articles about the oppression of women before my experience-- i was not aware, because I lived with it, how the experience of being young white and female also privileged me -- until I was on the disabled side of that.

We can see people digging in here as well, and pretending that something in my comment somehow denies that they've ever been a victim of oppression, whatever. Oh well.

521 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:26:36pm

re: #500 SanFranciscoZionist

they ship the good stuff with real sugar down there. I dunno why.

Probably something to do with the trade restrictions on sugar imports. Which are crazy IMO. It doesn't make good economic sense to put tariffs on raw materials.

522 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:26:47pm

re: #506 Dark_Falcon

She has a certain point tho'.

Seniority doesn't mean correctness! If you say 'I'm correct because I've been here longer', or denigrate people for being new, you're on the wrong track.

And it usually shows that you're feeling defensive or threatened.

523 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:27:54pm

re: #520 iceweasel

Side question; where are you on the idea that privilege makes you incapable of understanding the issues of the oppressed?

524 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:28:15pm

re: #503 Charles

I see that Instapundit is working up his nerve to start taking shots at me now, doing it obliquely through Patterico.

Interesting that none of these people have a word to say about Big Government's major fail, or about Jim Hoft's praise for an antisemitic conspiracy website. But they're right there to play gotcha with a racist image, even though there's no doubt at all that it originated from the right wing.

This is why I can't stand the right wing blogosphere any more. They're a bunch of liars and backbiters, with no integrity.

In the end, we're right and they're wrong. Not only that but they represent a small group of people within a minority of a minority ideology.

Here's a suggestion for Patterico (who should be blocked IMO) and Instapundit. They should get a t-shirt made of that image and take the A train to Harlem and go for a walk.

525 SteveC  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:28:46pm

re: #516 Varek Raith

The Ban Hammer. :evilgrin:

Aw hell, Thor left his hammer laying around again!

526 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:29:08pm

I expect at least one or two more trolls to pop up overnight.

527 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:30:07pm

re: #525 SteveC

Aw hell, Thor left his hammer laying around again!

Indeed he did. :)

528 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:30:49pm

re: #299 Spare O'Lake

So according to you being white is a privilege that white people take for granted?

Now THERE is a classic lib guilt trip...and racist to boot.

Acknowledging the reality of socio-economic racial disparity is a classic liberal trait. Getting all puffed up and defensive about the implications of said real world disparity is a classic conservative trait.

Somehow I doubt acknowledging this was your intent.

529 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:31:42pm

re: #523 windsagio

Side question; where are you on the idea that privilege makes you incapable of understanding the issues of the oppressed?

It doesn't make anyone incapable (FDR, RFK)... but it does take a conscious effort.

530 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:31:44pm

re: #498 Escaped Hillbilly

Nah, its not some kind of conspiracy. Just human nature. Of course racism exists, for lots of reasons. I was just saying I don't appreciate when people claim everyone benefits from being white. You have to understand my mother was born to tenant farmers in rural Tennessee. It's hard short of outright slavery to be poorer and more disadvantaged. Our family has been working its way up the socioeconomic ladder ever since. Hopefully my son will be firmly entrenched in the middle class soon.

I get what you're saying and I will never claim that socioeconomic oppression doesn't exist -- and affect white people too. It's yet another obstacle. Generally speaking, being white does afford a kind of advantage that being black does not -- just as being male does, just as being straight does -- all other things being equal.

None of this says that white people can't also be discriminated against, especially when they are gay, female, lower socioeconomic class, disabled -- it really is human nature to discriminate and we have a whole buffet of options to pick from as humans to do that. When we can't find one, we'll invent one.

531 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:32:51pm

OK, I just got done checking and I have Good News:

Pepsi and Mountain Dew Throwback are back!

Stock up while you can! This stuff is great!

532 Lidane  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:32:54pm

re: #500 SanFranciscoZionist

Taquerias around here smuggle real Coke back from Mexico--they ship the good stuff with real sugar down there. I dunno why. If offered the "Mexican Coke" always take it. Pricey but delicious.

God, I love that stuff. I'll take it over the regular Coke any day. Also, there is this, which I buy often:

[Link: www.dublindrpepper.com...]

Small batch DP made with real sugar. Unbelievably addicting, but expensive, since a 6-pack of bottles costs almost $7 at the store. It's so worth it.

533 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:33:32pm

I'm going to make this statement, and then I'm going to bed.

There is always going to be people who hate, there is always going to be discrimination. It is based on irrationality, which is one of the basis of the human condition. Therefore, no amount of legislation, no amount of education, nothing will stop it. Hatred knows no rationality, no creed, no sex, no gender, no religion, no skin color. Hatred is unfortunately, truly equal opportunity. And humanity, to my chagrin, excels at it.

534 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:33:39pm

re: #523 windsagio

Side question; where are you on the idea that privilege makes you incapable of understanding the issues of the oppressed?

Anecdotally I see that and worse in my own extended family, the coddled tend to curdle.

535 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:34:30pm

re: #507 SanFranciscoZionist

I think they're done. But if not, heck, he's been around and he'll keep moving.

I live in Berkeley now but I lived in SF for 20 years. I consider myself to be pretty well informed on the local political scene but for the life of me I can't really think of what Willie's legacy is. Other than making a bunch of essentially real estate deals, I'm not sure what he did. Excellent political instincts; so so at governing.

536 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:34:32pm

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

OK, I just got done checking and I have Good News:

Pepsi and Mountain Dew Throwback are back!

Stock up while you can! This stuff is great!

I found some in Publix last week. :)

537 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:34:32pm

I read that the 'real sugar' sodas don't pan out in taste tests (ie they can't be reliably identified).

Too lazy to look for the link tho >>

538 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:34:37pm

re: #528 goddamnedfrank

Acknowledging the reality of socio-economic racial disparity is a classic liberal trait. Getting all puffed up and defensive about the implications of said real world disparity is a classic conservative trait.

Somehow I doubt acknowledging this was your intent.

Here's Michael Steele before he was censured:

“Studies show enormous disparities still exist in education, healthcare, employment and economic opportunities along racial lines in the United States. I believe programs are still necessary to help close these divides. I support giving people opportunities. Programs must be fair to all Marylanders – of every color – and they should focus on economic empowerment.”

Michael Steele

539 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:34:44pm

re: #528 goddamnedfrank

Acknowledging the reality of socio-economic racial disparity is a classic liberal trait. Getting all puffed up and defensive about the implications of said real world disparity is a classic conservative trait.

Somehow I doubt acknowledging this was your intent.

Downding for the swipe at conservatives.

540 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:35:01pm

re: #472 windsagio

woah woah, thats different from 'always murderous'. Thats the beef.

I'm not arguing that communist regimes weren't big trouble >>

Okay, then maybe this can be our common ground: Communist regimes are murderous often enough to warrant being termed "always murderous."

541 Escaped Hillbilly  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:35:37pm

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist
I am not trying to scold you. I have read too many of your posts which I respect to do so. I was trying to express my thoughts and feelings in this matter. You were not the only person who has posted on this, just the one I responded too and I realize looking back that it therefore looked like I was aiming the comments directly at you. I am still a noob on this sight when it comes to actually posting. I humbly apologize if I offended. And I didn't say you were self excoriating. The line, off repeated, not necessarily by you but tangential to what I was trying to say, is. I can pretty much guarantee I was never awarded such priveledges because I never got such. Every job I had before joining the Army sucked, was back room, sweat inducing labor, won with much effort. I was hired once over the phone after the person who was hired refused to accept the wages offered. I don't think you should assume I am to stupid to realize not all benefits are direct. But I think I would know if I had received such benefit better than anyone else.

542 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:35:39pm

re: #540 The Sanity Inspector

throwing in 'regimes' helps alot, so I accept your compromise :D

543 SteveC  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:35:47pm

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

OK, I just got done checking and I have Good News:

Pepsi and Mountain Dew Throwback are back!

Stock up while you can! This stuff is great!

If you wanna hang out you've got to take her out; caffeine.
If you wanna get down, down on the ground; caffeine.
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie; caffeine!.

544 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:36:26pm

re: #530 iceweasel

I get what you're saying and I will never claim that socioeconomic oppression doesn't exist -- and affect white people too. It's yet another obstacle. Generally speaking, being white does afford a kind of advantage that being black does not -- just as being male does, just as being straight does -- all other things being equal.

None of this says that white people can't also be discriminated against, especially when they are gay, female, lower socioeconomic class, disabled -- it really is human nature to discriminate and we have a whole buffet of options to pick from as humans to do that. When we can't find one, we'll invent one.

Excellent comment.

545 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:36:33pm

re: #526 Charles

I expect at least one or two more trolls to pop up overnight.

Use the "report" button, folks!
It's the "!" if you were wondering!
Oh, and have fun whacking at the Troll, until Stinky gets it!

546 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:37:04pm

re: #537 windsagio

I read that the 'real sugar' sodas don't pan out in taste tests (ie they can't be reliably identified).

Too lazy to look for the link tho >>

Stop getting your info from our HFCS overlords, man! They don't want the truth to get out.
/

547 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:37:41pm

re: #533 acwgusa

I'm going to make this statement, and then I'm going to bed.

There is always going to be people who hate, there is always going to be discrimination. It is based on irrationality, which is one of the basis of the human condition. Therefore, no amount of legislation, no amount of education, nothing will stop it. Hatred knows no rationality, no creed, no sex, no gender, no religion, no skin color. Hatred is unfortunately, truly equal opportunity. And humanity, to my chagrin, excels at it.

I've been thinking about this and it seems like discrimination is based on fear, projection and hyper-defensiveness. A person or group of people is afraid of something... violence, crime, losing their lifestyle, being obligated, etc etc. They project the cause of this fear onto another group and then they build a wall, as high as possible, between them and their imagined attackers.

548 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:38:25pm

re: #537 windsagio

I read that the 'real sugar' sodas don't pan out in taste tests (ie they can't be reliably identified).

Oh I can tell. No question.

549 Bagua  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:39:07pm

Bad Mind Anthem


- Elephant Man
550 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:39:09pm

re: #545 Floral Giraffe

Use the "report" button, folks!
It's the "!" if you were wondering!
Oh, and have fun whacking at the Troll, until Stinky gets it!

Indeed. Exercising the troll by driving it into a frenzy makes the troll's flesh more firm and tasty after it is cooked.

551 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:39:24pm

re: #539 Dark_Falcon

Downding for the swipe at conservatives.

Downding because I sure as hell don't see you downdinging the numerous swipes at Liberals on this site.

552 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:39:29pm

re: #534 goddamnedfrank

Anecdotally I see that and worse in my own extended family, the coddled tend to curdle.

I turned out to be the opposite because my dad is like that. I have everything he has(lucky and coddled) but maybe since I work in social services and work with people who are mostly African American...I see things totally different.

553 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:39:33pm

re: #547 Locker

I've been thinking about this and it seems like discrimination is based on fear, projection and hyper-defensiveness. A person or group of people is afraid of something... violence, crime, losing their lifestyle, being obligated, etc etc. They project the cause of this fear onto another group and then they build a wall, as high as possible, between them and their imagined attackers.

I've met some people who just hated people, regardless. Not because of fear, they just hated everyone.

554 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:39:55pm

re: #548 Mich-again

Oh I can tell. No question.

Me too, as well as most of my gaming group. It was a big hit with them.

555 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:40:05pm

re: #530 iceweasel

I have been lucky enough to see the positive side of people way more than the negative side of people. Obviously, both are present.

My grandfather (who would be 133 years old if he were still alive today) gave me an article when I was a young boy. It was a one sheet affair that my twin brother and I hung on the wall....

Generally, it said "There is good in everyone".

I think you should contemplate that.

556 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:40:12pm

re: #550 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. Exercising the troll by driving it into a frenzy makes the troll's flesh more firm and tasty after it is cooked.

Hmm, does spamming the Melf's Acid Arrow or Flame Arrow spell affect its taste?
/

557 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:40:22pm

re: #508 Spare O'Lake

It's late, and we're getting punchy. I'm turning in, and I wish everyone good luck in dialing down the temperature in here.

Here, have a hi-mileage Dan Fogelberg concert clip:

558 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:40:52pm

re: #535 Olsonist

I live in Berkeley now but I lived in SF for 20 years. I consider myself to be pretty well informed on the local political scene but for the life of me I can't really think of what Willie's legacy is. Other than making a bunch of essentially real estate deals, I'm not sure what he did. Excellent political instincts; so so at governing.

Willie is--Willie. Term limits sent him to the City. What can you do?

("Carrying much political baggage, and wishing he were in the role of Othello...") Ahh..."Wriggletto"!

559 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:41:01pm

re: #547 Locker

I've been thinking about this and it seems like discrimination is based on fear, projection and hyper-defensiveness. A person or group of people is afraid of something... violence, crime, losing their lifestyle, being obligated, etc etc. They project the cause of this fear onto another group and then they build a wall, as high as possible, between them and their imagined attackers.

You just described a typical tactic used by lots of politicians to build their base.

560 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:41:08pm

re: #551 JasonA

Downding because I sure as hell don't see you downdinging the numerous swipes at Liberals on this site.

I don't downding those swipes because I'm a conservative. I take some of the swipes at liberals.

561 SteveC  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:41:21pm

re: #556 Varek Raith

Hmm, does spamming the Melf's Acid Arrow or Flame Arrow spell affect its taste?
/

We use the Flame Arrow. Acid Arrow cause you teeth to rot over time.

562 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:41:26pm

re: #548 Mich-again

re: #554 Dark_Falcon

Fair enough, I can't drink sugar soda anymore anyways, so I wouldn't know >>

563 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:41:48pm

re: #528 goddamnedfrank

Acknowledging the reality of socio-economic racial disparity is a classic liberal trait. Getting all puffed up and defensive about the implications of said real world disparity is a classic conservative trait.

Somehow I doubt acknowledging this was your intent.

As I have always pointed out here, racism is alive and well in America, even more after last November. It is also ugly, deliberate, learned and economically-based...and definitely is NOT caused because some innocent folks simply take their skin colour or status for granted.

564 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:42:01pm

re: #556 Varek Raith

Hmm, does spamming the Melf's Acid Arrow or Flame Arrow spell affect its taste?
/

Let me guess: Dungeons & Dragons player?

565 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:42:02pm

re: #553 acwgusa

I've met some people who just hated people, regardless. Not because of fear, they just hated everyone.

I trust your experience. Personally I've never met anyone who hated something or someone that wasn't based on some sort of fear. Well... I guess someone who is clinically insane but I've never met anyone like that... so far.

566 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:42:21pm

re: #560 Dark_Falcon

dude, thats pretty awful. 'I downding because I don't agree!'

Is that really the intent?

567 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:42:30pm

re: #562 windsagio

re: #554 Dark_Falcon

Fair enough, I can't drink sugar soda anymore anyways, so I wouldn't know >>

Why not, if you don't mind me asking?

568 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:42:33pm

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

Let me guess: Dungeons & Dragons player?

Yes, haven't played in a while though.

569 pegcity  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:42:40pm

OT

I have been accepted as an Officer in the Canadian Navy

Can any Lizards tell me any good books regarding Naval History or Naval Tactics that would be helpful?

570 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:42:52pm

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

Here's the one I was thinking about!
[Link: www.sodapopstop.com...]
They ship, & do "old timey" candies too!

571 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:43:23pm

re: #565 Locker

I trust your experience. Personally I've never met anyone who hated something or someone that wasn't based on some sort of fear. Well... I guess someone who is clinically insane but I've never met anyone like that... so far.

I can tell you, most of the people I met would be classified as sociopathic.

572 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:43:57pm

re: #567 Dark_Falcon

bad teeth. It makes my whole mouth hurt.


Oh for good dental insurance!

573 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:44:25pm

re: #545 Floral Giraffe

Use the "report" button, folks!
It's the "!" if you were wondering!
Oh, and have fun whacking at the Troll, until Stinky gets it!

No way. Snitches get stitches!
/

574 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:44:59pm

Somebody other than me usually says this, but Kobe is a witch.

G'night everyone!

575 Locker  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:45:00pm

re: #569 pegcity

OT

I have been accepted as an Officer in the Canadian Navy

Can any Lizards tell me any good books regarding Naval History or Naval Tactics that would be helpful?

Congratulations on your acceptance. I see a LOT to chose from on Amazon when I search for naval history and tactics. Hopefully someone can give a recommendation.

576 SteveC  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:45:05pm

re: #569 pegcity

OT

I have been accepted as an Officer in the Canadian Navy

Can any Lizards tell me any good books regarding Naval History or Naval Tactics that would be helpful?

Q: If you were stuck on a deserted island, what one book would you want to have with you?

A: Shipbuilding Made Easy: The Complete Guide.

//

Congrats and best of luck!

577 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:45:52pm

re: #542 windsagio

throwing in 'regimes' helps alot, so I accept your compromise :D

Mighty sportin' of you. Just remember though, give your local food co-op communist unlimited power over vast numbers of people, and you might notice a change in his personality. Regimes are made of people.

578 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:46:11pm

re: #566 windsagio

dude, thats pretty awful. 'I downding because I don't agree!'

Is that really the intent?

No, not really. But it is true that I have tendency to go after what I see as gratuitous attacks on conservatives, and I often do not notice similar attacks on liberals.

579 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:47:00pm

re: #569 pegcity

Congratulations to you. Sir!

580 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:47:05pm

re: #578 Dark_Falcon

fair enough. I've got no beef with you really..,

Just all your positions :p

581 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:47:33pm

re: #580 windsagio

fair enough. I've got no beef with you really..,

Just all your positions :p

...in bed?
///:P

582 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:47:37pm

re: #569 pegcity

OT

I have been accepted as an Officer in the Canadian Navy

Can any Lizards tell me any good books regarding Naval History or Naval Tactics that would be helpful?

Not a Navy book at but the classic West Point read is Once An Eagle.

583 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:47:48pm

re: #552 beekiller

I turned out to be the opposite because my dad is like that. I have everything he has(lucky and coddled) but maybe since I work in social services and work with people who are mostly African American...I see things totally different.

I meant to include Hispanics.

584 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:47:57pm

re: #569 pegcity

OT

I have been accepted as an Officer in the Canadian Navy

Can any Lizards tell me any good books regarding Naval History or Naval Tactics that would be helpful?

I think Alec Baldwin wrote a biography of Admiral Halsey called The Fighting Sailor, but then I heard that Sean Connery said that his conclusions were all wrong and that Halsey acted stupidly.

585 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:48:04pm

re: #573 Mad Al-Jaffee

You're gonna get whacked until you hurt!
LOL!

586 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:48:06pm

re: #523 windsagio

Side question; where are you on the idea that privilege makes you incapable of understanding the issues of the oppressed?

Yeah, I think that's crap, where it is intended to express some kind of permanent epistemological truth: You're cognitively incapable of understanding the issues!
Unfortunately quite a few do use it that way. I don't think that holds up.

All I can tell you is that my small personal experience brought home to me some truths that I thought I understood, cognitively-- "It is very hard to be disabled, and the disabled are discriminated against"....but it was very different to live them.

Notice also-- I'll say again -- it's not as if anyone was actively mean to me. No one was. I just learned things I hadn't known before. And just as it was a revelation for it to suddenly be impossible to get up or down stairs, and for every little physical exertion I'd taken for granted to be a tremendous effort-- and to discover how places I thought were 'handicapped accessible' and were labelled such really were not -- it was at least as big a revelation to see how differently i was related to by other people. As in, overnight.

So while I don't think there are some truths permanently inaccessible to those outside the oppressed class, I do think it takes effort to see them, and that sometimes even when we think we're aware of them we don't recognise how pervasive their effects are.

Everyone is reacting to that post of mine as if it were some attack on white people or some straw liberal argument they'd like to pretend I've made. It's a story about something painful that happened to me, -- and how one of the most painful parts was learning how I'd taken my former luck for granted. We all do. I still do.

587 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:48:36pm

re: #541 Escaped Hillbilly

I am not trying to scold you. I have read too many of your posts which I respect to do so. I was trying to express my thoughts and feelings in this matter. You were not the only person who has posted on this, just the one I responded too and I realize looking back that it therefore looked like I was aiming the comments directly at you. I am still a noob on this sight when it comes to actually posting. I humbly apologize if I offended. And I didn't say you were self excoriating. The line, off repeated, not necessarily by you but tangential to what I was trying to say, is. I can pretty much guarantee I was never awarded such priveledges because I never got such. Every job I had before joining the Army sucked, was back room, sweat inducing labor, won with much effort. I was hired once over the phone after the person who was hired refused to accept the wages offered. I don't think you should assume I am to stupid to realize not all benefits are direct. But I think I would know if I had received such benefit better than anyone else.

Hey--I'm not trying to be a jerk, either. I was knee-jerk responding to a whole other set of people, the folks who act as though you're attacking all white people as racists if you point out that racism is out there. Or as though you just learned this in Liberal School, and never checked it against the world.

Can we agree that lots of people are dumbasses and shake hands on that? I'm not trying to be a schmuck, just saying that there's still ugly shit under lots of rocks out there, and race is part of it. As well as class. My God, I should know that, I teach in F-ing Richmond California, and I see what the white kids from the neighborhood are up against.

{EH}--I'm glad the Army knew what you were worth.

588 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:48:51pm

re: #580 windsagio

fair enough. I've got no beef with you really..,

Just all your positions :p

Probably not all of them, but I take your point. Thank you for that.

589 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:49:05pm

re: #567 Dark_Falcon

Keep an eye out during Passover. Coke puts out kosher bottles with yellow caps on them.

590 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:49:31pm

re: #581 Varek Raith

...in bed?
///:P

Very few positions in bed that I acrively oppose >

591 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:50:39pm

re: #586 iceweasel

very well said.

I suppose you can always find someone (or alot of someones) to take anything too far, especially on the internet :)

592 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:50:54pm

re: #573 Mad Al-Jaffee

No way. Snitches get stitches!
/

You need a bigger sarc tag, dude...

593 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:51:15pm

re: #555 WindHorse

I have been lucky enough to see the positive side of people way more than the negative side of people. Obviously, both are present.

My grandfather (who would be 133 years old if he were still alive today) gave me an article when I was a young boy. It was a one sheet affair that my twin brother and I hung on the wall...

Generally, it said "There is good in everyone".

I think you should contemplate that.

Downding, and a hearty "Fuck you" from me for informing me what I should and should not contemplate, and inferring (as well as implying) that I don't see the good in people.
I have no idea where you've gotten that from. I'll suggest that you go build yourself a little straw-weasel in your head to argue with, and you can imagine it has said all sorts of things which you can then pretend to refute.

It'll give you more pleasure and save me time. Win win.

594 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:51:29pm

re: #569 pegcity

OT

I have been accepted as an Officer in the Canadian Navy

Can any Lizards tell me any good books regarding Naval History or Naval Tactics that would be helpful?


To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World Excerpt:

Two short siren blast rang out over the water as the main battle fleet,
steaming in four groups, turned to port to form themselves in a single
line of battle--the last line head battle formation in the history of
the British navy. Not wooden walls this time, but walls of steel, with
streamlined gray hulls instead of gilded stern galleries and
figureheads, and funnels belching black smoke instead of sails
close-hauled. But it was a formation Blake or Rooke or Rodney would
have recognized, and approved. King George V and Ajax were first,
followed by Orion, Royal Oak, Iron Duke, Superb, Thunderer, Benbow,
Bellerophon, Téméraire, Collingwood, Colossus, Marlborough, St
Vincent--twenty-seven in all, names redolent with the navy's past
[...], names of admirals and generals, Greek heroes and Roman virtues.
And all slowly bringing their guns to bear as they steamed into harm's
way--just as their predecessors had for so many centuries in exactly
the same sea. [...]

Scheer's position was dangerous but hardly hopeless. [...] Scheer might have looked to his heavier armor to protect his ships from British
shells (many of which were defective and failed to explode), while
overpowering their with his own faster and more accurate fire.
Certainly this was the moment of decisive battle he and Tirpitz had
been yearning for.

But as Scheer gazed out at the flashing fire along the horizon, he saw
something else. he saw before him the entire history of the British
navy, a fighting force with an unequaled reputation for invicibility in
batle and bravery under fire. "The English fleet," he wrote later,
"had the advantage of looking back on a hundred years of proud
tradition which must have given every man a sense of superiority based
on the great deeds of the past." His own navy's fighting tradition was
less than two years old. At that fateful moment, Scheer was
confronting not John Jellicoe but the ghosts of Nelson, Howe, Rodney,
Drake, and the rest; and he backed down.

-- Arthur Herman, of the Battle of Jutland, 1915, in _To Rule the
Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World_, 2004

595 nonic  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:51:49pm

#297 The Sanity Inspector

Chris Rock proposed an acid test. Think of the happiest, most admired, popular black person you can think of. Would you trade places with them?

Wow. You mean THE objection to being in the circumstances and position of Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Eddie Murphy, Leontyne Price, Kathleen Battle, or any other educated, talented, accomplished, successful, rich and powerful black person would be SKIN COLOR? That ALONE would be the deal breaker for you?

And this is NOT racist…… how?

596 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:54:00pm

re: #595 nonic

#297 The Sanity Inspector


Wow. You mean THE objection to being in the circumstances and position of Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Eddie Murphy, Leontyne Price, Kathleen Battle, or any other educated, talented, accomplished, successful, rich and powerful black person would be SKIN COLOR? That ALONE would be the deal breaker for you?

And this is NOT racist…… how?

Now, Kathleen Battle. She entertains. But opera singers are cool. And I've met her brother, and he's nice, so she has a nice family. I would not mind being Kathleen Battle.

597 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:54:15pm

re: #586 iceweasel

Hey! Are you ready to move?
When do you expect/hope to get your visa?
Did you plan what to bring when you were over visiting before the wedding?
My sisters family lived in the UK, not Scotland for 5 years. The eldest kid was SO unhappy he couldn't get plain Cheerios, only honey nut ones, which he was allergic to. So every summer he went back to the UK with a whole case of plain cheerios on his back, like a mule. It was his "carry on" luggage. Customs guys looked & laughed.
Hope it gets sorted out soon for you!

598 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:55:14pm

re: #592 SanFranciscoZionist

You need a bigger sarc tag, dude...

I see women my age wearing those anti-snitching shirts. I want to scream at them.

599 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:56:12pm

re: #595 nonic

#297 The Sanity Inspector

Wow. You mean THE objection to being in the circumstances and position of Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Eddie Murphy, Leontyne Price, Kathleen Battle, or any other educated, talented, accomplished, successful, rich and powerful black person would be SKIN COLOR? That ALONE would be the deal breaker for you?

And this is NOT racist…… how?

I think you miss the point. I would readily trade places with most of those. I draw the line on Clarence Thomas and I'm more or less happy with my gender so that rules out some of the others.

The point was that if someone wouldn't want to trade places with Barack or Oprah just because they didn't want to be black, this person is actually very racist (and stupid). In fact, Chris Rock's acid test is a little too easy on racism, not too hard.

600 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:56:31pm

re: #594 The Sanity Inspector

And yet despite that, the British had their own series of blunders at Jutland. Especially those caused by Admiral David Beatty, one of the most overrated officers in naval history, IMO.

601 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:56:36pm

re: #595 nonic

#297 The Sanity Inspector


Wow. You mean THE objection to being in the circumstances and position of Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Eddie Murphy, Leontyne Price, Kathleen Battle, or any other educated, talented, accomplished, successful, rich and powerful black person would be SKIN COLOR? That ALONE would be the deal breaker for you?

And this is NOT racist…… how?

Back up and read it again, friend; it's only two lines long. The comedian Chris Rock proposed this little thought experiment, to prod his white audience to self-gauge their own racism or lack thereof.

602 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:56:55pm

re: #589 JasonA

Keep an eye out during Passover. Coke puts out kosher bottles with yellow caps on them.

Er, I should've mentioned that that means they're made with sugar for the extra rules they have.

603 Escaped Hillbilly  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:56:59pm

re: #587 SanFranciscoZionist Sorry this is way after kind of post. My computer is playing mean games with me tonight, scrolling all the way up and then all the way down. Think the little touch pad thingy is too hot. Anyway, this is me shaking hands. I will go back to lurking now as I cannot participate in a very meaningful way while this computer is not cooperating.

604 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:57:05pm

re: #593 iceweasel

you're not contemplating very well dear....

I meant that as a gentle nudge.

And I was met with anger and expletives....

I think you can set down some of the anger you are carrying. None of us here expects you to haul such a load.

605 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:57:36pm

re: #560 Dark_Falcon

I don't downding those swipes because I'm a conservative. I take some of the swipes at liberals.

You're never going to find balance or integrity by self identifying with an -ism. Just my 2¢.

606 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:58:59pm
607 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:59:02pm

re: #596 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, Kathleen Battle. She entertains. But opera singers are cool. And I've met her brother, and he's nice, so she has a nice family. I would not mind being Kathleen Battle.

I wouldn't mind being James Earl Jones. Need I say why? :)

608 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:59:22pm

re: #595 nonic

#297 The Sanity Inspector


Wow. You mean THE objection to being in the circumstances and position of Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, Bill Cosby, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Eddie Murphy, Leontyne Price, Kathleen Battle, or any other educated, talented, accomplished, successful, rich and powerful black person would be SKIN COLOR? That ALONE would be the deal breaker for you?

And this is NOT racist…… how?

Poor Tiger is now chopped liver?

609 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 10:59:29pm

Really going now, 'night.

610 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:00:10pm

re: #602 JasonA

Er, I should've mentioned that that means they're made with sugar for the extra rules they have.

Corn syrup is not permitted by Ashkenazim during Passover.

OK. It's a stupid rule. The Sephardim and Mizrahim get to eat rice and beans during the holidays, and they make fun of us behind our backs. But it's our rule, dammit, and I can't bring myself to ignore it.

Except one year I went to an Iraqi friend's seder, and she'd made chicken with rice, so I ate it.

611 nonic  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:00:39pm

re: #596 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, Kathleen Battle. She entertains. But opera singers are cool. And I've met her brother, and he's nice, so she has a nice family. I would not mind being Kathleen Battle.

My son has been watching the Ring Cycle DVD's, and Jessye Norman just knocks me out. I told him I was in the lobby once when she walked through, and I swear you could FEEL the power and dignity --- no, not dignity, REGAL BEARING --- of that woman from 10 feet away! Sigh.

612 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:01:05pm

re: #608 Spare O'Lake

Poor Tiger is now chopped liver?

One more comment before I go to bed...

His kids just got moved to another country.

No, I wouldn't want to be him. I actually looked at that quote and thought: "Would I take my family with me? No family, no deal."

613 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:01:12pm

re: #603 Escaped Hillbilly

Sorry this is way after kind of post. My computer is playing mean games with me tonight, scrolling all the way up and then all the way down. Think the little touch pad thingy is too hot. Anyway, this is me shaking hands. I will go back to lurking now as I cannot participate in a very meaningful way while this computer is not cooperating.

Handshake! And don't burn your fingers.

(Yay! I rebuilt bridges with cool new person on LGF!)

614 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:01:42pm
615 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:01:57pm

I know I'm largely sticking to the sidelines on the race issues being discussed. That will continue. I don't address thorny racial issues except in private when talking to people whom I trust. Its simply too toxic otherwise.

616 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:02:45pm

re: #614 beekiller

You're going to be my first comment calling some one an idiot. You idiot. :)

*pfft* That was an easy one. Grow a pair :P

617 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:02:58pm

re: #614 beekiller

You're going to be my first comment calling some one an idiot. You idiot. :)

Another troll bites the dust.

618 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:03:00pm

re: #614 beekiller

You're going to be my first comment calling some one an idiot. You idiot. :)

Crap, I quoted the idiot.

619 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:03:49pm

Book recommendation:

"Kaffir Boy" by Mark Mathabane. My grandmother had me read it as a teen. I should probably get it so my kids can read it when they are old enough to put the issues into perspective.

620 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:04:25pm

re: #616 JasonA

*pfft* That was an easy one. Grow a pair :P

I'm still a newbie. Trust me, I'll get there. ;)

621 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:04:35pm

re: #586 iceweasel

Yeah, I think that's crap, where it is intended to express some kind of permanent epistemological truth: You're cognitively incapable of understanding the issues!
Unfortunately quite a few do use it that way. I don't think that holds up.

All I can tell you is that my small personal experience brought home to me some truths that I thought I understood, cognitively-- "It is very hard to be disabled, and the disabled are discriminated against"...but it was very different to live them.

Notice also-- I'll say again -- it's not as if anyone was actively mean to me. No one was. I just learned things I hadn't known before. And just as it was a revelation for it to suddenly be impossible to get up or down stairs, and for every little physical exertion I'd taken for granted to be a tremendous effort-- and to discover how places I thought were 'handicapped accessible' and were labelled such really were not -- it was at least as big a revelation to see how differently i was related to by other people. As in, overnight.

So while I don't think there are some truths permanently inaccessible to those outside the oppressed class, I do think it takes effort to see them, and that sometimes even when we think we're aware of them we don't recognise how pervasive their effects are.

Everyone is reacting to that post of mine as if it were some attack on white people or some straw liberal argument they'd like to pretend I've made. It's a story about something painful that happened to me, -- and how one of the most painful parts was learning how I'd taken my former luck for granted. We all do. I still do.


After reading this section, and you mentioned that no one was actively mean to you, I think in addition to discrimination, you met its cousin, apathy. If it isn't affecting them directly, people just don't give a crap about their fellow man. (Yes, I realize I am generalizing.) People are self-focused to exclusion of others. It is another of humanity's bad traits.

622 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:04:49pm

re: #614 beekiller

Hey, thanks for quoting it!
It got deleted before I got to read it.
Gone now.
:)

623 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:05:22pm

re: #597 Floral Giraffe

Hey! Are you ready to move?
When do you expect/hope to get your visa?
Did you plan what to bring when you were over visiting before the wedding?
My sisters family lived in the UK, not Scotland for 5 years. The eldest kid was SO unhappy he couldn't get plain Cheerios, only honey nut ones, which he was allergic to. So every summer he went back to the UK with a whole case of plain cheerios on his back, like a mule. It was his "carry on" luggage. Customs guys looked & laughed.
Hope it gets sorted out soon for you!

Hey cutie!
What a cute story about the Cheetos...I have friends in the UK who I have to mail Triscuits to, they love them and can't get them. Is your sister and family back now?

Sadly, Jimmah and I do not know how long we are separated for. You wouldn't believe how much info we have to provide to the various agencies involved (primarily the British Consulate). Like six months of both our financial records, and they'll take my biometric data and run it through the DHS database, and all kinds of shit. Documentation of every aspect of our lives, basically.

I have to stay in the US to get my spousal visa, as they won't let you enter the UK on a tourist visa and then apply for the spousal one (anymore). So...we don't know for certain when we can be together again. :(

624 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:05:22pm

re: #615 Dark_Falcon

being against racism is always a safe bet ;)

625 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:06:20pm

re: #622 Floral Giraffe

Hey, thanks for quoting it!
It got deleted before I got to read it.
Gone now.
:)

Hopefully he'll delete my comment with the quote since I reported it.

626 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:06:40pm

re: #623 iceweasel

Now that's sad :( *sniffles*

627 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:07:05pm

re: #612 EmmmieG

One more comment before I go to bed...

His kids just got moved to another country.

No, I wouldn't want to be him. I actually looked at that quote and thought: "Would I take my family with me? No family, no deal."

But, then, you wouldn't have done the things that he did, to lose his family, either. Just saying!

628 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:07:15pm

re: #625 beekiller

Hopefully he'll delete my comment with the quote since I reported it.

And then delete mine since I quoted you? What a wicked web...

629 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:08:31pm

re: #604 WindHorse

you're not contemplating very well dear...

I meant that as a gentle nudge.

And I was met with anger and expletives...

I think you can set down some of the anger you are carrying. None of us here expects you to haul such a load.

I really enjoy it when some fucknut decides to lecture me about my expletives after baiting me, and I especially love it when they patronise me by calling me 'dear'. Mmmhmmm.

Wingnut tears taste like candy!

630 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:08:47pm

re: #623 iceweasel

sorry to hear that.... my very best wishes to you both!

631 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:08:50pm

Just remember; if a comment smells of deletion/troll/variousbuggers, use 'reply'. :)

632 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:09:42pm

re: #628 JasonA

And then delete mine since I quoted you? What a wicked web...

nah, yours doesn't include the idiots comment so it's cool.

633 Bagua  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:09:52pm

re: #628 JasonA

And then delete mine since I quoted you? What a wicked web...

Bees don't make webs silly, they make honey.

634 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:10:03pm

re: #629 iceweasel

calmer than you are dude.....

635 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:10:26pm

re: #634 WindHorse

- for obvious troll...

636 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:11:33pm

re: #634 WindHorse

A most heinously overrated movie.

637 Gus  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:11:45pm

I don't get it. Did these people grow up on a different planet or something? Where were they educated? How can it be that their only response to the original image is "it's not racist." They come to no other conclusions saying that it's even inappropriate, uncool, etc. They make no effort to even understand the historical context of the imagery. Nothing other than hearing them say, "it's not racist." They're like people from a different time and place. It's no wonder that they used to be called squares. It's also no wonder that they never get any rock musicians allowing them to play their music.

638 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:11:50pm

re: #635 windsagio

huh?

639 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:11:59pm

re: #624 windsagio

being against racism is always a safe bet ;)

And I am. It's just that issues of white privilege and related concepts are fairly controversial. I work in a store that is very multiracial and I treat all my customers and co-workers as the individuals they are, not as stereotypes. I oppose racism and I stomp on it whenever I see it. But the related issues are somewhat thorny, and I sometimes suffer from Foot-In-The-Mouth Disease, so I do not talk about them unless I am sure that no one who might be offended will hear.

640 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:12:19pm

re: #614 beekiller

You're going to be my first comment calling some one an idiot. You idiot. :)

That was a good one. :)

Honestly, I'm glad you quoted it. I could never have imagined that someone would defend racism by saying "Hey, at least we don't have apartheid!"

"USA: Better than South Africa!"

Yeah, I don't think this really works as a slogan somehow. Palin would probably like it though.

641 Mark Pennington  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:12:22pm

re: #634 WindHorse

calmer than you are dude...

She's a lady and a very nice one if you treat her with respect.

642 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:12:53pm

re: #636 Olsonist

A most heinously overrated movie.

Wai...wha..speechless...

643 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:12:54pm

re: #623 iceweasel

You could start shipping "important things" to Jimmah, now. Trying to figure out the safest & quickest way to get them there.
Cheetos or Cheerios. You might even send your "future self" a cuisinart, so you can cook! Or whatever you think you can't fins "over there".
There's a "freight" way to ship to the UK, that's slower than "slow boat from China" with not tracking or insurance, IIRC.
Anyhoo, I was trying to think of stuff to help out your "future life".
But, you knew that!
{{{Ice}}}

644 ryannon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:14:07pm

re: #384 Dark_Falcon

Those last two were on November 9th. November 10th is both the day Chicago North Side Gang leader Dean O'Banion was gunned down in 1924 and the day I was born in 1977.

Dion O'Banion.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I'm an ex-Chicagoan myself.

645 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:14:10pm

re: #639 Dark_Falcon

I agree that talking about privilege is a bitch. It annoys me and I'm a pretty progressive dude!

646 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:14:48pm

re: #642 Girth

Don't even get me started on TBL. All I ever hear is frat boys doing impressions of the characters. And the Dude is anything but calm. All he ever does is whine.

Overrated.

647 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:16:33pm

re: #646 Olsonist

I like it, but it is the "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" of a new generation... and thats not a good thing.


(and above, I admit I didn't get the reference, my bad :p)

648 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:16:54pm

re: #626 JasonA

Now that's sad :( *sniffles*

Yes, it is. :( Kinda heartbroken, really.

What really annoys me is that if only I were smuggling explosives and had a parent warn Homeland Security about me, apparently I could get a US visa. ///

It's crazy how much you have to go through to do this legally. And it does make me kind of angry.

649 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:17:13pm

re: #641 beekiller

I will let the discourse between the two of us define who is, and who isn't, showing respect.

Thanks for the help - but, it really isn't necessary!!

:)

650 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:17:21pm

re: #640 iceweasel

That was a good one. :)

Honestly, I'm glad you quoted it. I could never have imagined that someone would defend racism by saying "Hey, at least we don't have apartheid!"

"USA: Better than South Africa!"

Yeah, I don't think this really works as a slogan somehow. Palin would probably like it though.

Not I'm picturing saying "hey, at least we aren't talking about executing homosexuals. Better than Uganda!"

651 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:17:25pm

re: #646 Olsonist

Don't even get me started on TBL. All I ever hear is frat boys doing impressions of the characters. And the Dude is anything but calm. All he ever does is whine.

Overrated.

And for six months after it aired all you heard was "I'm Rick James, bitch!" Didn't make the show any less funny.

652 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:18:30pm

re: #644 ryannon

Dion O'Banion.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I'm an ex-Chicagoan myself.

Actually, the book I have about him maintains that his name was Dean. The book is Guns and Roses: The Untold Story of Dean O'Banion, Chicago's Big Shot Before Al Capone by Rose Keefe.

653 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:19:00pm

re: #651 Girth

And for six months after it aired all you heard was "I'm Rick James, bitch!" Didn't make the show any less funny.

"Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?"

654 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:19:59pm

re: #646 Olsonist

Don't even get me started on TBL. All I ever hear is frat boys doing impressions of the characters. And the Dude is anything but calm. All he ever does is whine.

Overrated.

I'm also a big Cohen brothers fan, so there's that too.

To each their own.

655 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:20:08pm

re: #650 JasonA

Not I'm picturing saying "hey, at least we aren't talking about executing homosexuals. Better than Uganda!"

We don't have legislation introduced to kill them. There are however, some Dominionists who would like to stone gays to death.

/I wish I was kidding.

656 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:21:21pm

re: #655 Dark_Falcon

/I wish I was kidding.

We all do.

The good news is that it seems to be the desperation before the end. these guys know they're on their last legs, and are pushing for anything.

657 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:22:49pm

re: #643 Floral Giraffe

You could start shipping "important things" to Jimmah, now. Trying to figure out the safest & quickest way to get them there.
Cheetos or Cheerios. You might even send your "future self" a cuisinart, so you can cook! Or whatever you think you can't fins "over there".
There's a "freight" way to ship to the UK, that's slower than "slow boat from China" with not tracking or insurance, IIRC.
Anyhoo, I was trying to think of stuff to help out your "future life".
But, you knew that!
{{{Ice}}}

Oh thanks FG!
Yes, been doing that, also sending my future self stuff there. He's under strict orders not to unpack any of the things we bought in the US for the flat there until I get there too.
I need to check out the frieght shipping. I was planning on selling most everything I have here and just buying some new there-- for kitchen items, for example, there's the currents being different for the appliances, and shouldn't I just sell my old pots and pans etc here and then buy some replacements in the UK rather than ship them? I think so.

Anyway, lots of hassles. Thanks so much for thinking of us! { { { FG } } }

658 charlz  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:22:49pm

re: #643 Floral Giraffe

trying to think of stuff to help out your "future life"

Friends of mine living as expats in Europe always appreciate shipments of peanut butter; it's just not the same over there.

659 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:24:23pm

re: #658 charlz

Friends of mine living as expats in Europe always appreciate shipments of peanut butter; it's just not the same over there.

Shame you can't ship pizza. No one does it like New York.

660 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:25:21pm

re: #659 JasonA

Shame you can't ship pizza. No one does it like New York.

It's 2000 freaking 10. Where's my teleporter!?!?
/:)

661 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:26:16pm

re: #651 Girth

And for six months after it aired all you heard was "I'm Rick James, bitch!" Didn't make the show any less funny.

The reasons I like Repo Man are:

Repo Man - whites, blacks, latinos, asians, it looked like LA
music - definitive LA punk sound
skid row LA
great writing with a strong story
great cars
almost no one you've ever heard of

TBL - a bunch of white people
quotable lines
what else
a bunch of stars getting indie cred

662 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:26:25pm

re: #660 Varek Raith

It's 2000 freaking 10. Where's my teleporter!?!?
/:)

As I remember, you left it in your other pants.

/I'm really going to catch it for this one.

663 sagehen  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:27:52pm

re: #658 charlz

Friends of mine living as expats in Europe always appreciate shipments of peanut butter; it's just not the same over there.


Coffee.

The UK just doesn't know how to do a proper coffee.

664 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:28:28pm

re: #662 Dark_Falcon

As I remember, you left it in your other pants.

/I'm really going to catch it for this one.

lol
Oh, great! Now it's teleporting away my pants!

665 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:28:58pm

here is one I like......

666 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:29:02pm

re: #662 Dark_Falcon

As I remember, you left it in your other pants.

/I'm really going to catch it for this one.

Teleporter and my pants. The twain shall never meet.

667 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:29:31pm

re: #664 Varek Raith

lol
Oh, great! Now it's teleporting away my pants!

Yeah, that's the ticket! It teleported my pants!

668 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:30:34pm

re: #667 acwgusa

Yeah, that's the ticket! It teleported my pants!

Hey! Ya never know, that excuse might...just...work?
/:)

669 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:31:25pm

re: #646 Olsonist

Don't even get me started on TBL. All I ever hear is frat boys doing impressions of the characters. And the Dude is anything but calm. All he ever does is whine.

Overrated.

"I don't know, it's down there somewhere. Let me look again"

670 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:31:44pm

re: #668 Varek Raith

Hey! Ya never know, that excuse might...just...work?
/:)

Let's ask Captain Kirk. Last I checked, he ended up in the evil mirror universe.

671 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:31:56pm
672 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:32:50pm

re: #670 acwgusa

Let's ask Captain Kirk. Last I checked, he ended up in the evil mirror universe.

Evil Spock was awesome.

673 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:34:12pm

re: #670 acwgusa

Let's ask Captain Kirk. Last I checked, he ended up in the evil mirror universe.

Kirk mostly uses the teleporter to teleport away the cloths of alien women. He might teleport away his pants though, to give his ladies a clear view of the Captain's Log.

/snicker

674 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:34:16pm

re: #672 Varek Raith

Evil Spock was awesome.

I wonder, would mirror Universe Khan be good?

675 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:34:18pm

re: #672 Varek Raith

Evil Spock was awesome.

Besides the goatee how was he really different from good Spock?

Evil T'Pol, on the other hand... hubba hubba

676 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:34:26pm

re: #671 eclectic infidel

Avery Brooks on Flying Cars

Lol
But! He's SISKO! He's got the Defiant!
/nerd rage :P

677 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:35:20pm

re: #672 Varek Raith

There were two episodes in the final fourth season of Star Trek: Enterprise titled "In a Mirror Darkly" in two parts. The character that was most believable as being ruthlessly evil was Dr Phlox, the Denoblian physician.

678 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:35:21pm

re: #511 Locker

LGF without Iceweasel is like pizza without the pepperoni. Much less spicy and not nearly as tasty. Sooo much more fun when you are around. I swear Jimmah must have used some kind of European goat voodoo on you to close the deal. Well done you lucky sod!

Whoa, how did I miss this post? Thanks, dude. *blush*

What can I say, big fan of yours as well. But Jimmah has the kilt. :-)

679 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:35:33pm

re: #673 Dark_Falcon

Kirk mostly uses the teleporter to teleport away the cloths of alien women. He might teleport away his pants though, to give his ladies a clear view of the Captain's Log.

/snicker

Captain's Log? He wishes. It was more like the Captain's Mini snickers.

680 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:36:25pm

re: #288 Mich-again

I'm not sure how much "being white" gets a person special priveleges these days unless you mean getting treated nicer by racists. As for being treated as "invisible", to me that would be the sign of a color-blind society.

An anecdote! To illustrate!

A black coworker of mine (who by the way dresses and looks tons more respectable and professional than I do) tried to buy a high ticket item for our workplace with our company credit card, and they denied her, and gave her hell, checked out her driver's license, called the manager, blah de blah.

They give me the company card, I walk in, looking like a heavy metal dirtbag in a Mastodon t-shirt and long hair, they don't even blink, I purchase and walk out with the Big Ticket Item without even so much as a peek at my driver's license.

Privilege, it's a real thing.

681 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:36:53pm

re: #672 Varek Raith

Evil Spock was awesome.

Spock's Beard!

682 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:37:14pm

re: #677 eclectic infidel

There were two episodes in the final fourth season of Star Trek: Enterprise titled "In a Mirror Darkly" in two parts. The character that was most believable as being ruthlessly evil was Dr Phlox, the Denoblian physician.

I wish we had gotten an Mirror Universe TNG. Can you imagine the destruction an ISS Enterprise-D could have done under an evil Picard?

683 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:37:38pm

re: #669 goddamnedfrank

TBL is the Michael Bolton of movies.

684 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:38:09pm

re: #681 WindUpBird

Spock's Beard!

is there a band named that?

There should be

685 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:38:46pm

re: #672 Varek Raith

Evil Spock was awesome.

Ok, but just how evil ARE kirk and spock?

WARNING: NSFW
(Not Safe For Wingnuts.)

686 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:39:09pm

re: #682 acwgusa

I wish we had gotten an Mirror Universe TNG. Can you imagine the destruction an ISS Enterprise-D could have done under an evil Picard?

I'd be more worried about Evil Riker. Or all the evil Tasha Yars! So many Tasha Yars.

687 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:39:11pm

re: #682 acwgusa

I wish we had gotten an Mirror Universe TNG. Can you imagine the destruction an ISS Enterprise-D could have done under an evil Picard?

I dunno. Picard might not have ended up evil. An evil Worf would have been a holy terror, though.

688 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:39:19pm

re: #682 acwgusa

I wish we had gotten an Mirror Universe TNG. Can you imagine the destruction an ISS Enterprise-D could have done under an evil Picard?

There was a Mirror Universe TNG book. I have it on my shelf. It would have made a hell of an episode.

689 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:39:25pm

re: #684 windsagio

is there a band named that?

There should be

THERE ALREADY IS A BAND NAMED THAT

690 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:39:33pm

re: #682 acwgusa

I wish we had gotten an Mirror Universe TNG. Can you imagine the destruction an ISS Enterprise-D could have done under an evil Picard?

Mirror Universe Sisko should've been badass... but, nooo, he wasn't.

691 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:40:10pm

re: #690 Varek Raith

lol again with the Sisko love.

what is it with the guy? He's boring!

692 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:40:24pm

re: #687 Dark_Falcon

I dunno. Picard might not have ended up evil. An evil Worf would have been a holy terror, though.

I'd figure in the mirror mirror episode of TNG, Worf would be a total hippie stoner. He'd act like George Clinton and just be totally non-confrontational.

693 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:40:34pm

re: #687 Dark_Falcon

I dunno. Picard might not have ended up evil. An evil Worf would have been a holy terror, though.

He was. DS9 Mirror Worf was a badass.

694 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:41:10pm

re: #689 WindUpBird

also; damn.

Sounds like Toad the Wet Sprocket

695 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:41:30pm

FYI: I will be updinging all comments that reference Star Trek for at least the next ten minutes.

696 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:42:22pm

re: #691 windsagio

lol again with the Sisko love.

what is it with the guy? He's boring!

Not with how he rationalized the way Garak got the Romulans to join in against the Dominion! ;)

697 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:42:26pm

re: #695 iceweasel

I should start channeling my Trekkie friend in here. I've never met anyone as obsessed with Trek as her.

She has all the novels!

698 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:42:32pm

re: #683 Olsonist

TBL is the Michael Bolton of movies.

Normally I like your taste, but I am as far from being a fratboy as it is possible to be while still retaining human DNA, and The Big Lebowski is one of my favorite films of all time.

699 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:43:01pm

re: #696 Varek Raith

Not with how he rationalized the way Garak got the Romulans to join in against the Dominion! ;)

"In the Pale Moonlight." My favorite DS9 episode ever.

700 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:43:17pm

re: #682 acwgusa

You know there was something similar on TNG but the alternate universe wasn't a reverse of good vs evil, but more of a dimension where Enterprise was a warship, not a vessel to explore the stars. In that episode, Picard was cold, terse, with the potential to be hardcore if necessary.

701 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:44:03pm

re: #700 eclectic infidel

You know there was something similar on TNG but the alternate universe wasn't a reverse of good vs evil, but more of a dimension where Enterprise was a warship, not a vessel to explore the stars. In that episode, Picard was cold, terse, with the potential to be hardcore if necessary.

Good episode, except it helped give us whatever Romulan Tasha was named.

702 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:44:04pm

re: #695 iceweasel

FYI: I will be updinging all comments that reference Star Trek for at least the next ten minutes.

I have, at my disposal...
THE STAR TREK ANIMATED SERIES. ON DVD.

Beat that, trekkies!

/Okay, it's technically my partners' copy, not mine, but I've watched it!

703 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:44:29pm

re: #687 Dark_Falcon

I dunno. Picard might not have ended up evil. An evil Worf would have been a holy terror, though.

The TNG Book "Dark Mirror" does show an evil Enterprise-D crew. Picard is, well, Picard if he had no morales, ethics, or constraints.

704 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:44:58pm

Coincidentally enough I'm watching the Twilight Zone diner episode with Bill Shatner right now.

705 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:45:00pm

re: #696 Varek Raith

so? Kirk made a hobby of destroying Gods and Civilizations!

706 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:45:06pm

re: #700 eclectic infidel

You know there was something similar on TNG but the alternate universe wasn't a reverse of good vs evil, but more of a dimension where Enterprise was a warship, not a vessel to explore the stars. In that episode, Picard was cold, terse, with the potential to be hardcore if necessary.

"Yesterday's Enterprise".

707 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:45:15pm

Having lived in San Francisco for 40-odd years, and seen the ins-and-outs of the whole Star Trek thing, I'd just like to say that, as Star Trek comes and goes, The Big Lebowski is-seriously-fuggin trivial. WindHorse, grow up, for goodness' sake.

708 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:45:37pm

re: #707 Olsonist

lolwut?

709 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:45:42pm

re: #702 WindUpBird

I have, at my disposal...
THE STAR TREK ANIMATED SERIES. ON DVD.

Beat that, trekkies!

/Okay, it's technically my partners' copy, not mine, but I've watched it!

...hmm...
/I used to have the Star Wars Holiday Special...lol.

710 Girth  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:46:00pm

My God, they have the episode titles memorized. I might have to beam out of here.

711 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:46:19pm

re: #694 windsagio

That song sounds like Toad, but they don't all sound like Toad. :D

/Christ I have 18 Firefox windows open, no wonder it's chugging

712 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:46:26pm

re: #707 Olsonist

I get the "odd" part..... I love you too.

713 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:46:34pm

re: #700 eclectic infidel

You know there was something similar on TNG but the alternate universe wasn't a reverse of good vs evil, but more of a dimension where Enterprise was a warship, not a vessel to explore the stars. In that episode, Picard was cold, terse, with the potential to be hardcore if necessary.

In an interesting twist, that's actually what the Enterprise-E actually is. If play some of the games, you find that the Sovereign-class is designed to much more to fight than to explore, unlike the Galaxy-class.

714 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:47:02pm

re: #711 WindUpBird

Tabs are your friend! Luddite.

715 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:47:07pm

re: #707 Olsonist

Having lived in San Francisco for 40-odd years, and seen the ins-and-outs of the whole Star Trek thing, I'd just like to say that, as Star Trek comes and goes, The Big Lebowski is-seriously-fuggin trivial. WindHorse, grow up, for goodness' sake.

Think of TBL as the cult movie akin to Rocky Horror for the 90's.

716 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:47:37pm

re: #710 Girth

My God, they have the episode titles memorized. I might have to beam out of here.

MUHAHAHA! PH34R US!11!!
/

717 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:47:38pm

re: #713 Dark_Falcon

In an interesting twist, that's actually what the Enterprise-E actually is. If play some of the games, you find that the Sovereign-class is designed to much more to fight than to explore, unlike the Galaxy-class.

Not surprising, because it was mentioned that the Enterprise-E was designed and built to fight the Borg, and upgraded for the Dominion war.

/My God, I am A GEEK!

718 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:48:02pm

re: #715 WindUpBird

He's paraphrasing a post that's been deleted for the past half hour. You can go about your business. Move along.

719 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:48:13pm
720 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:48:57pm

re: #715 WindUpBird

I liked my comparison better; its more The Holy Grail than Rocky Horror

721 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:49:02pm

re: #717 acwgusa

Not surprising, because it was mentioned that the Enterprise-E was designed and built to fight the Borg, and upgraded for the Dominion war.

/My God, I am A GEEK!

The real dumbass thing is that they gave one to Picard. Who they didn't want fighting the Borg. I never have been able to wrap my head around that one.

722 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:49:30pm

re: #718 JasonA

This is what I get for being productive the last 6 hours! I miss all the context!

723 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:49:45pm

re: #721 JasonA

The real dumbass thing is that they gave one to Picard. Who they didn't want fighting the Borg. I never have been able to wrap my head around that one.

Plotlines.

724 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:49:59pm

re: #721 JasonA

also terrible: What they did to the Borg!


They went from scary unknowable/unbeatable enemy to 'baddie of the day' who got their civilization destroyed by On Ship!

725 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:50:11pm

re: #724 windsagio

err *ONE SHIP* not *ON*

726 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:50:34pm

re: #720 windsagio

I liked my comparison better; its more The Holy Grail than Rocky Horror

I could see that! Holy Grail is quoted to death, so is Lebowski.

"WHERE'S THE FUCKING MONEY, YOU LITTLE BRAT?!?"

727 Olsonist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:50:37pm

re: #712 WindHorse

I just couldn't resist having some writing fun with that deleted post.

728 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:50:51pm

re: #721 JasonA

The real dumbass thing is that they gave one to Picard. Who they didn't want fighting the Borg. I never have been able to wrap my head around that one.

Yep, at that time there was only the USS Enterprise-E and the USS Sovereign.

729 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:50:53pm

re: #713 Dark_Falcon

In an interesting twist, that's actually what the Enterprise-E actually is. If play some of the games, you find that the Sovereign-class is designed to much more to fight than to explore, unlike the Galaxy-class.

I did like the Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Enterprise-D. It showed that the Galaxy class was not just a spacegoing hotel, as some have claimed.

730 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:50:54pm

re: #724 windsagio

also terrible: What they did to the Borg!

They went from scary unknowable/unbeatable enemy to 'baddie of the day' who got their civilization destroyed by One Ship!

Another reason I try to forget Voyager.

731 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:51:32pm

re: #730 JasonA

Another reason I try to forget Voyager.

as everyone should.

732 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:51:59pm

re: #721 JasonA

The real dumbass thing is that they gave one to Picard. Who they didn't want fighting the Borg. I never have been able to wrap my head around that one.

With the Enterprise-D destroyed, but Picard still a hero, he had to be given command of the next Enterprise, and that ship was new built, after the Galaxy-class had ceased production.

733 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:52:12pm

oh...

Disclosure.

The person WUB knows who owns The animated series is the same person *I* know who owns all the books!

734 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:54:13pm

re: #733 windsagio

oh...

Disclosure.

The person WUB knows who owns The animated series is the same person *I* know who owns all the books!

I know where you live, and I can totally find you and pee on your car.

735 WindHorse  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:54:16pm

re: #727 Olsonist

where is the WTF button on here? ;)

736 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:54:39pm

re: #734 windupbird

Downding!

737 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:54:44pm

re: #732 Dark_Falcon

With the Enterprise-D destroyed, but Picard still a hero, he had to be given command of the next Enterprise, and that ship was new built, after the Galaxy-class had ceased production.

They could've rechristened another Galaxy enterprise if Picard had to have it. It would make far more logical sense then giving one of two ship made to fight a race they didn't want him fighting.

738 ryannon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:55:35pm

re: #652 Dark_Falcon

Actually, the book I have about him maintains that his name was Dean. The book is Guns and Roses: The Untold Story of Dean O'Banion, Chicago's Big Shot Before Al Capone by Rose Keefe.

You're absolutely right. Even the Wikipedia link I included affirms the same.

Duh!

739 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:55:43pm

re: #732 Dark_Falcon

With the Enterprise-D destroyed, but Picard still a hero, he had to be given command of the next Enterprise, and that ship was new built, after the Galaxy-class had ceased production.

The Galaxy was still in production in the middle of DS9 and Voyager, but as capital command ships.

740 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:56:12pm

Okay, my spelling's getting worse. I'll disappear sans fanfare in the next 5 to 10 minutes.

741 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:56:13pm

re: #737 JasonA

Some things are more important than logic~! LIke keeping important characters in leading roles!

742 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:56:17pm

re: #736 windsagio

Downding!

ahahahahahahahahahahah

Now is the time where we come clean and talk about our GURPS characters.

/actually, no, we're not doing that

743 windsagio  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:56:41pm

re: #742 windupbird

I have no idea what you're talking about.


Shush

744 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:56:56pm

re: #737 JasonA

They could've rechristened another Galaxy enterprise if Picard had to have it. It would make far more logical sense then giving one of two ship made to fight a race they didn't want him fighting.

They hadn't fully decided to keep him out of it. And they wanted one of their best officers commanding one their newest ships.

745 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:57:26pm

re: #740 JasonA

Okay, my spelling's getting worse. I'll disappear sans fanfare in the next 5 to 10 minutes.

Is it the booze? That's my excuse, North Coast Old Stock Ale here.


/Liberals make the best beer

746 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:57:44pm

re: #741 windsagio

Some things are more important than logic~! LIke keeping important characters in leading roles!

Glaring holes in logic bother me in stories. TF2 made me cry as a writer.

747 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:57:51pm

re: #637 Gus 802

I don't get it. Did these people grow up on a different planet or something? Where were they educated? How can it be that their only response to the original image is "it's not racist." They come to no other conclusions saying that it's even inappropriate, uncool, etc. They make no effort to even understand the historical context of the imagery. Nothing other than hearing them say, "it's not racist." They're like people from a different time and place. It's no wonder that they used to be called squares. It's also no wonder that they never get any rock musicians allowing them to play their music.

It isn't that they don't see. It's that they don't want to see. If they admit that this imagery is racist, they may have to examine some of their real issues with Obama. They may have to come out from behind their accusations of PC-ness, and acknowledge that some of the people they're following cheering on are effing racists.

Whereas, many people who here I KNOW think Barack Obama is a tragedy on ice skates are able to look at something like this and say "Yep, racist as hell." Because they don't need to protect themselves, they're genuinely not attacking Obama because of his race.

748 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:57:54pm

re: #745 windupbird

Is it the booze? That's my excuse, North Coast Old Stock Ale here.

/Liberals make the best beer

Is it made from real liberals?

749 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:58:09pm

re: #745 windupbird

Is it the booze? That's my excuse, North Coast Old Stock Ale here.

/Liberals make the best beer

Nah, just sleepy.

750 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:58:30pm

re: #748 acwgusa

Is it made from real liberals?

It's made from the ESSENCE of liberals.

/I can't believe I typed that

751 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:58:40pm

re: #737 JasonA

They could've rechristened another Galaxy enterprise if Picard had to have it. It would make far more logical sense then giving one of two ship made to fight a race they didn't want him fighting.

Also, navies do not like to rename ships. Ships renamed within the same navy are usually considered to be bad luck.

752 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:58:42pm

re: #744 Dark_Falcon

They hadn't fully decided to keep him out of it. And they wanted one of their best officers commanding one their newest ships.

...then promptly sent it out to patrol the Neutral Zone while the Borg were heading for Earth. Not to mention Earth's lackluster defenses...
/Starfleet Fail.

753 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:59:12pm

re: #739 acwgusa

The Galaxy was still in production in the middle of DS9 and Voyager, but as capital command ships.

Thank you for the correction.

754 acwgusa  Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:59:54pm

re: #751 Dark_Falcon

Also, navies do not like to rename ships. Ships renamed within the same navy are usually considered to be bad luck.

Star Trek 4, where the Yorktown was rechristened the Enterprise-A.

755 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:00:10am

re: #751 Dark_Falcon

Also, navies do not like to rename ships. Ships renamed within the same navy are usually considered to be bad luck.

*shrug* It would be easier to sell me on the idea that such superstitions would be gone in the next 400 years.

756 acwgusa  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:00:19am

re: #753 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for the correction.

It's scary, that I am really that geeky.

757 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:00:44am

re: #747 SanFranciscoZionist

And they know that legitimate conservative criticisms of Obama are discredited by racist doucheholes who just go China Syndrome at every little thing.

/why isn't douchehole in Firefox's dictionary

758 windsagio  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:00:48am

re: #756 acwgusa

Have pride! You're amongst friends :)

759 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:01:13am

re: #751 Dark_Falcon

Also, navies do not like to rename ships. Ships renamed within the same navy are usually considered to be bad luck.

Defiant destroyed by the Breen.
Sao Paulo renamed Defiant.
Sisko at end of DS9...
Bad mojo.
/:)

760 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:01:25am

re: #752 Varek Raith

...then promptly sent it out to patrol the Neutral Zone while the Borg were heading for Earth. Not to mention Earth's lackluster defenses...
/Starfleet Fail.

And only Picard's initiative prevented it from being an Epic Fail.

761 WindHorse  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:01:30am

re: #758 windsagio

....and trolls.

762 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:01:45am

re: #643 Floral Giraffe

You could start shipping "important things" to Jimmah, now. Trying to figure out the safest & quickest way to get them there.
Cheetos or Cheerios. You might even send your "future self" a cuisinart, so you can cook! Or whatever you think you can't fins "over there".
There's a "freight" way to ship to the UK, that's slower than "slow boat from China" with not tracking or insurance, IIRC.
Anyhoo, I was trying to think of stuff to help out your "future life".
But, you knew that!
{{{Ice}}}

Food is the thing. Get friends in the U.S. assigned to send you things. Don't send electric gadgets. Adaptors are too much of a pain. (Let me tell you about the time my landlady in London plugged my little boom box straight into the wall.)

But Ice, I thought you had been living in England at least recently, so you probably already have a set-up?

763 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:01:45am

re: #751 Dark_Falcon

Also, navies do not like to rename ships. Ships renamed within the same navy are usually considered to be bad luck.

That's kinda cool, I didn't know that.

Now I'm imagining cursed aircraft carriers that can sail between worlds, staffed with undead crew.

764 acwgusa  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:02:16am

re: #763 windupbird

That's kinda cool, I didn't know that.

Now I'm imagining cursed aircraft carriers that can sail between worlds, staffed with undead crew.

That would be a really cool movie.

765 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:02:23am

re: #698 WindUpBird

Normally I like your taste, but I am as far from being a fratboy as it is possible to be while still retaining human DNA, and The Big Lebowski is one of my favorite films of all time.

Upding because I loves ya, but I've always been somewhat mystified by the appeal of TBL. I love the Coen bros, but TBL just doesn't really do it for me.

Yes, I still like it, and I'll quote it, but I don't get why it has a cult following. And I find that weird because in other respects I ought to be in the target group for that fan club.

766 windsagio  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:02:45am

re: #756 acwgusa

also, think of it this way. I have the old Superman encyclopedia from the 70s, and I was reading about an old story where Superman had to either Kill a Man, or watch the Entire earth be Destroyed! And naturally he didn't know what to do.

Also fun: The planet where Lex Luthor is a hero, and Superman the villian!

767 windsagio  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:03:29am

re: #765 iceweasel

I think cult followings are self-perpetuating. They're things for people to identify themselves as.

768 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:04:05am

re: #767 windsagio

I think cult followings are self-perpetuating. They're things for people to identify themselves as.

Like Conservatives?

(Braces for downdings)

769 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:04:12am

re: #754 acwgusa

Star Trek 4, where the Yorktown was rechristened the Enterprise-A.

I didn't know that they renamed the ship. Interesting that the original name was given as the Yorktown. The first US aircraft carrier to bear the name Enterprise was the second ship of the Yorktown-class (and the only ship of the class to survive World War II).

770 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:04:15am

re: #653 JasonA

"Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?"

"I'll tell you why white people love Wayne Brady. White people love Wayne Brady because Wayne Brady makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X."

771 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:04:36am

re: #747 SanFranciscoZionist

Exactly. I'm not here to convince them to their own satisfaction that the imagery is racist. It's not the imagery; it's them.

772 WindHorse  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:04:57am

re: #767 windsagio

I agree.... and there may very well be some half-and-half in my moustache right now.....

773 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:05:07am

re: #762 SanFranciscoZionist

Food is the thing. Get friends in the U.S. assigned to send you things. Don't send electric gadgets. Adaptors are too much of a pain. (Let me tell you about the time my landlady in London plugged my little boom box straight into the wall.)

But Ice, I thought you had been living in England at least recently, so you probably already have a set-up?

When I was in Scotland (Findhorn Foundation, if you're REALLY curious) for a college study-abroad thing, I had a whole rig to make it so my American voltage portable CD player worked. An adapter, a transformer, a pile of books to hold up the giant transformer because otherwise it'd just slide out of the socket due to being too heavy. But it worked! And I could listen to Paradise Lost's Draconian Times and My Dying Bride's Angel and the Dark River uninterrupted :D

774 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:05:10am

re: #656 windsagio

We all do.

The good news is that it seems to be the desperation before the end. these guys know they're on their last legs, and are pushing for anything.

Reading FSTDT has been rather interesting, and even educational.

775 acwgusa  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:05:15am

re: #753 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for the correction.

And you know, just because Starfleet kept building them, they kept getting blown up! The Odyssey and the Venture went boom in the same episode.

776 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:05:49am

re: #768 JasonA

Like Conservatives?

(Braces for downdings)

What's with the snipe? I'm a conservative.

777 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:06:03am

re: #774 SanFranciscoZionist

Reading FSTDT has been rather interesting, and even educational.

If you're brave check out their sister site, Racists Say the Damndest Things. It's actually a little less funny and more disturbing.

778 acwgusa  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:06:13am

re: #769 Dark_Falcon

I didn't know that they renamed the ship. Interesting that the original name was given as the Yorktown. The first US aircraft carrier to bear the name Enterprise was the second ship of the Yorktown-class (and the only ship of the class to survive World War II).

I had to google it. I couldn't remember if it was Star Trek 4 or 5.

779 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:06:41am

re: #658 charlz

Friends of mine living as expats in Europe always appreciate shipments of peanut butter; it's just not the same over there.

Hard to find, and expensive.

780 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:07:05am

re: #776 Dark_Falcon

*sigh* Lighten up. You are not a label. It was a quick off the hip pun.

781 Cheechako  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:07:12am

re: #657 iceweasel

One other item I noticed when I went to Safeway in Inverness. The store only had instant coffee, not one can of ground coffee of bags of coffee beans.

782 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:07:43am

re: #724 windsagio

also terrible: What they did to the Borg!

They went from scary unknowable/unbeatable enemy to 'baddie of the day' who got their civilization destroyed by On Ship!

Yes, exactly. And it is ALWAYS a bad idea to move from an unknowable enemy to a known one, let alone a tame/pet one. Look at Lovecraft and the way we never see or really know the enemies or Elder gods-- the original Borg was very like that. They were profoundly alien to humans, in the real sense of alien.
Once you start making pets and mascots out of them and rescuing members of them, forget it.

783 acwgusa  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:07:44am

re: #766 windsagio

also, think of it this way. I have the old Superman encyclopedia from the 70s, and I was reading about an old story where Superman had to either Kill a Man, or watch the Entire earth be Destroyed! And naturally he didn't know what to do.

Also fun: The planet where Lex Luthor is a hero, and Superman the villian!

I've always wanted to see an evil Superman. His enemies would be toast by the end of the comic.

784 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:08:02am

re: #775 acwgusa

And you know, just because Starfleet kept building them, they kept getting blown up! The Odyssey and the Venture went boom in the same episode.

The Odyssey being rammed, no less...
/Captain Epic Fail.

785 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:08:02am

re: #775 acwgusa

And you know, just because Starfleet kept building them, they kept getting blown up! The Odyssey and the Venture went boom in the same episode.

Damn fine episode that was.

786 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:08:02am

re: #765 iceweasel

Upding because I loves ya, but I've always been somewhat mystified by the appeal of TBL. I love the Coen bros, but TBL just doesn't really do it for me.

Yes, I still like it, and I'll quote it, but I don't get why it has a cult following. And I find that weird because in other respects I ought to be in the target group for that fan club.

It's the dialogue that does it for me. And I think the dialogue becomes so quotable that it gains its own momentum and acquires a mystique. It helps that the movie is outrageously profane, and I love movies with very clever and profane dialogue. In my movie fandom, it's not even in my top 20. But I love it, it's still a great favorite.

(Ghostbusters, Return of the Jedi, Big Trouble in little China, Sneakers, Hellraiser, Dark City, and Transformers the Movie are in my white hot soul center of movie geekery)

787 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:08:48am

re: #755 JasonA

*shrug* It would be easier to sell me on the idea that such superstitions would be gone in the next 400 years.

They've endured for hundreds of years already without fading. Unlikely they'll ever be gone for good. Moreover, the need to explore space in that time would seem conducive to superstitions, IMO.

788 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:09:07am

re: #661 Olsonist

The reasons I like Repo Man are:

Repo Man - whites, blacks, latinos, asians, it looked like LA

There was a very short-lived medical drama show set in the Presidio of San Francisco. All of the main characters--ie the doctors--were white. This completely confused all the San Franciscoans watching it.

789 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:09:30am

re: #781 Cheechako

One other item I noticed when I went to Safeway in Inverness. The store only had instant coffee, not one can of ground coffee of bags of coffee beans.

I rember bumming around Inverness, and I found a VIDEO ARCADE. Oh lordy, I was in heaven.

790 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:09:45am

re: #787 Dark_Falcon

They've endured for hundreds of years already without fading. Unlikely they'll ever be gone for good. Moreover, the need to explore space in that time would seem conducive to superstitions, IMO.

You know we're talking about a society without money, right? Hell, I could buy eradicating superstitions before that!

791 acwgusa  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:10:26am

re: #784 Varek Raith

The Odyssey being rammed, no less...
/Captain Epic Fail.

re: #785 JasonA

Damn fine episode that was.

It was a Jem'Hadar Suicide run, and the Galaxy's lumber anyway. There was no chance for the Odyssey. From the episode, it looked like there were at least 6 more Galaxy class ships.

792 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:10:48am

re: #663 sagehen

Coffee.

The UK just doesn't know how to do a proper coffee.

I had a Belgian roommate in Ireland. Her parents came over for a long weekend. They brought coffee.

I almost wept.

793 windsagio  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:11:21am

re: #782 iceweasel

Speaking of Lovecraft, I suggest to everyone that mentions him to look up C. L. Moore same kind of thing but better written! More street level, but still horrific.

re: #783 acwgusa

well this was Silver age, so he wasn't REALLY bad, but yeah. Its funny from those encyclopedias, I know a TON about gold- and silver age comics, but almost nothing about the modern day stuff.

794 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:11:46am

re: #788 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, Beverly Hills High School is nothing like 90210, practically majority Persian.

795 Gus  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:12:07am

In case this was missed:

No U.S. combat-related deaths in Iraq in December

Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) -- December was the first month since the beginning of the Iraq war in which there were no U.S. combat deaths, the U.S. military reported.

796 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:12:25am

Never been to Baltimore, but I'm willing to believe The Wire got it right.

797 windsagio  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:12:37am

re: #791 acwgusa

thats something that doesn't bear thinking about tho'. Can you imagine how hard it would be to ram something in the vastness of space?

798 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:13:11am

re: #791 acwgusa

It was a Jem'Hadar Suicide run, and the Galaxy's lumber anyway. There was no chance for the Odyssey. From the episode, it looked like there were at least 6 more Galaxy class ships.

True, I just think it shows Starfleet's naivety when it comes to fighting.

799 windsagio  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:13:26am

re: #789 windupbird

I was gonna go to inverness with my sister once. She decided to get married instead :(


PS: Isn't it wierd how the earlier rancor has totally dissolved into this... this geek-love-fest?

800 acwgusa  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:13:34am

I wonder what an Enterprise D from JJ Abrams universe would be like, since the Enterprise from Star Trek was supposed to be the size of the Enterprise-E.

The JJ Enterprise-D would be the size of a Star Destroyer from Star Wars.

801 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:13:45am

re: #710 Girth

My God, they have the episode titles memorized. I might have to beam out of here.

This strikes you as odd?

802 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:13:46am

re: #798 Varek Raith

True, I just think it shows Starfleet's naivety when it comes to fighting.

Well, fighting the Dominion, who they'd never met. Hard to blame them.

803 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:15:12am

re: #797 windsagio

thats something that doesn't bear thinking about tho'. Can you imagine how hard it would be to ram something in the vastness of space?

If you want to talk about space-physics we could tear apart every sci-fi show ever made. Better to just nod your head and walk away.

804 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:15:47am

re: #802 JasonA

Well, fighting the Dominion, who they'd never met. Hard to blame them.

Agreed. They were used to fighting the Klingons and Romulans, who don't use those sorts of suicide tactics. They got caught off guard.

805 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:15:50am

re: #800 acwgusa

I wonder what an Enterprise D from JJ Abrams universe would be like, since the Enterprise from Star Trek was supposed to be the size of the Enterprise-E.

The JJ Enterprise-D would be the size of a Star Destroyer from Star Wars.

Classic Trek, re-imagined by Abrams. Lol.

806 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:16:52am

re: #748 acwgusa

Is it made from real liberals?

Look, I gave my panties to a lesbian performance artist at Ladyfest a couple of years ago, but that is as far as I am willing to go...I will not be brewed.

807 windsagio  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:17:00am

re: #803 JasonA

very true.

808 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:17:23am

re: #762 SanFranciscoZionist

Food is the thing. Get friends in the U.S. assigned to send you things. Don't send electric gadgets. Adaptors are too much of a pain. (Let me tell you about the time my landlady in London plugged my little boom box straight into the wall.)

But Ice, I thought you had been living in England at least recently, so you probably already have a set-up?


You're so right about the adaptors. Not a permanent solution.

I lived in England, not Scotland about six months of the year for 5 years, and visit often.

But I was dating someone else at that time (a brit), and while he and I are good friends and I'm friends with his family and even his ex-gf, I feel kind of weird about asking any of them to help with storage and shopping....they'd be fine with it but I can't do it.

809 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:17:23am

re: #802 JasonA

re: #804 Dark_Falcon

Conceded. :)
/I gots issues with Starfleet. :/

810 windsagio  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:17:28am

re: #806 SanFranciscoZionist

could be like WUB... Just donate your juices!

811 acwgusa  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:17:58am

re: #805 Varek Raith

Classic Trek, re-imagined by Abrams. Lol.


[Video]

I knew it was going to be a lens flare joke before I even saw the video!

812 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:19:14am

re: #811 acwgusa

I knew it was going to be a lens flare joke before I even saw the video!

Kirk's 'KHAAANNN!' = Kirk, Ima firin mah lazer!

813 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:19:22am

re: #796 JasonA

Never been to Baltimore, but I'm willing to believe The Wire got it right.

Most brilliant show evar.

i know it's a cliche to say it, but it's true!

814 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:20:06am

re: #781 Cheechako

One other item I noticed when I went to Safeway in Inverness. The store only had instant coffee, not one can of ground coffee of bags of coffee beans.

Scotland is worse than England as regards food. So I hear tell. And rural is worse than urban. Sort of. There is some fabulous food in the UK you can't get anywhere else, but some things are--atrocious.

815 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:21:52am

re: #813 iceweasel

Most brilliant show evar.

i know it's a cliche to say it, but it's true!

I wish I could say everyone should see it, but it's nor for everyone. Hits too hard at times for normal humans. Does good-writing thing like ask questions instead of spoon-feeding answers. Was legalizing drugs a good thing? That's for the viewer to decide.

Brutal show.

816 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:22:14am

re: #808 iceweasel

You're so right about the adaptors. Not a permanent solution.

I lived in England, not Scotland about six months of the year for 5 years, and visit often.

But I was dating someone else at that time (a brit), and while he and I are good friends and I'm friends with his family and even his ex-gf, I feel kind of weird about asking any of them to help with storage and shopping...they'd be fine with it but I can't do it.

Makes sense.

817 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:22:31am

re: #813 iceweasel

Most brilliant show evar.

I know it's a cliche to say it, but it's true!

Agreed. The show captured the problems of Urban America exactly, and they did without retreating into cliches. The show's creators also had the good sense to end their show before it ran out of ideas. The Wire never jumped the shark.

818 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:23:59am

re: #817 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. The show captured the problems of Urban America exactly, and they did without retreating into cliches. The show's creators also had the good sense to end their show before it ran out of ideas. The Wire never jumped the shark.

McNulty's little scheme in 5 came really close for me. I didn't like that all that much. I know it was crucial to the theme of the season but damn was it far-fetched.

819 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:24:07am

I've lived in Baltimore but I've never seen The Wire. Honest.

820 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:25:28am

re: #819 Olsonist

A taste.

821 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:25:28am

re: #815 JasonA

I wish I could say everyone should see it, but it's nor for everyone. Hits too hard at times for normal humans. Does good-writing thing like ask questions instead of spoon-feeding answers. Was legalizing drugs a good thing? That's for the viewer to decide.

Brutal show.

Some people can't really handle the tragic (in the Greek sense) aspects of the show. It can be hard to accept the idea that people can simply be crushed by things they cannot truly control and that happens to a some the people on The Wire. Others meet a fate that truly does fit the Tragic Hero mold, with Stringer Bell springing immediately to mind.

822 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:26:08am

re: #817 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. The show captured the problems of Urban America exactly, and they did without retreating into cliches. The show's creators also had the good sense to end their show before it ran out of ideas. The Wire never jumped the shark.

Yeah, by way of comparison, The Sopranos definitely jumped the shark. Pretty much after the first two seasons.

823 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:26:30am

re: #818 JasonA

McNulty's little scheme in 5 came really close for me. I didn't like that all that much. I know it was crucial to the theme of the season but damn was it far-fetched.

True, but they did have it exposed and cost McNulty his job. Things weren't tied up in a bow.

824 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:29:41am

Later, fellow lizard shapeshifters!
:)

825 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:31:51am

re: #820 JasonA

A taste.


[Video]

I'll take Homicide.

826 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:32:57am

re: #825 Olsonist

Made by the same guy.

827 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:34:36am

re: #781 Cheechako

One other item I noticed when I went to Safeway in Inverness. The store only had instant coffee, not one can of ground coffee of bags of coffee beans.

I bought Jimmah coffee from a crappy bodega one am-- totally overheated, generic, NYC corner bodega coffee. The kind that is made and then sits and any normal person American coffee-lover would say tastes bad.

"This is the best coffee I have ever had in my life."

828 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:34:51am

re: #826 JasonA

Figured. The original Homicide book is quite good as well.

829 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:36:36am

re: #827 iceweasel

I bought Jimmah coffee from a crappy bodega one am-- totally overheated, generic, NYC corner bodega coffee. The kind that is made and then sits and any normal person American coffee-lover would say tastes bad.

"This is the best coffee I have ever had in my life."

lmao

Is it true that instant is really popular in Europe?

830 Gus  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:39:16am

re: #827 iceweasel

I bought Jimmah coffee from a crappy bodega one am-- totally overheated, generic, NYC corner bodega coffee. The kind that is made and then sits and any normal person American coffee-lover would say tastes bad.

"This is the best coffee I have ever had in my life."

I spend on average about 52 bucks a month on coffee that I make at home.

831 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:41:34am

re: #829 JasonA

lmao

Is it true that instant is really popular in Europe?

I couldn't tell you. Scotland really is not like England, and where we are/will be is especially not like where I'd lived in England. This is the major culture shock for me. Not just countries but urban.suburban vs well, rural.

Instant appears to be popular in Scotland, yes. Weirdly so. They think it's normal. (?)

832 Four More Tears  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:46:45am

re: #831 iceweasel

You know, a real Liberal would wait for a Republican to take office before leaving the country :P

And with that I'm off.

833 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:48:59am

re: #832 JasonA

You know, a real Liberal would wait for a Republican to take office before leaving the country :P

And with that I'm off.

Well, I've always said I'm a progressive or a DFH and not a liberal. I'll go where the socialism is and the free love, baby!

Have a good night. :)

834 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:53:49am

re: #830 Gus 802

I spend on average about 52 bucks a month on coffee that I make at home.

What do you do? Buy good beans and grind them I'm guessing. Shhhh, don't tell Jimmah-- I was planning on introducing him to the french press and good coffee, but I don't want him switching to wanting several cups of good coffee a day versus drinking tea most of the time.

835 Gus  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:58:03am

re: #834 iceweasel

What do you do? Buy good beans and grind them I'm guessing. Shhh, don't tell Jimmah-- I was planning on introducing him to the french press and good coffee, but I don't want him switching to wanting several cups of good coffee a day versus drinking tea most of the time.

I buy something which is like an espresso roast. Their own particular name. Smokey flavor so to speak and really strong. Black, no sugar. Pre-ground at the coffee shop. I can't stand cheap or bad coffee. All of that Maxwell House stuff is kind of gross.

836 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 1:20:49am

re: #835 Gus 802

I buy something which is like an espresso roast. Their own particular name. Smokey flavor so to speak and really strong. Black, no sugar. Pre-ground at the coffee shop. I can't stand cheap or bad coffee. All of that Maxwell House stuff is kind of gross.

Oh yeah. THAT's what I'm talking about. :-)

I'm saving proper coffee for Jimmah til i get over there for good. All I know so far is that in general they drink shit coffee in that one area in Scotland (instant is treated like its natural and normal and a good thing) and the weird thing is no one seems to know any better.

837 Gus  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 1:25:26am

re: #836 iceweasel

Oh yeah. THAT's what I'm talking about. :-)

I'm saving proper coffee for Jimmah til i get over there for good. All I know so far is that in general they drink shit coffee in that one area in Scotland (instant is treated like its natural and normal and a good thing) and the weird thing is no one seems to know any better.

Once he tastes it and gets a good coffee buzz he won't go back. Instant is worse than canned coffee. I suppose someone could like it but it's not coffee. It's a coffee flavored instant beverage.

838 gandalf.il  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 1:28:38am

Kinda funny, really...
not sure what point they were trying to make with this though :)

839 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 1:40:58am

re: #837 Gus 802

Once he tastes it and gets a good coffee buzz he won't go back. Instant is worse than canned coffee. I suppose someone could like it but it's not coffee. It's a coffee flavored instant beverage.

Exactly. And we can't afford 52 a month for real coffee, IMO. I love coffee but weaned myself off it because of the expense.

Instant is an abomination. They don't know any better there.

On the other side, we know nothing compared to the UK when it comes to Indian food. The best US Indian food I have had is about on par with any takeaway indian food in the cheapest places in the UK. (two exceptions I'll mention in a bit).

I never noticed many of these food differences before when I was living in the UK, because I wasn't the cook and also wasn't especially interested in food then. Now it's different.

You can get an extremely interesting picture of the differences between cultures by fully understanding the ways their foods and eating traditions differ. (I realise this is a very cliche observation, but it was new to me. )

840 Gus  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 1:51:58am

re: #839 iceweasel

Exactly. And we can't afford 52 a month for real coffee, IMO. I love coffee but weaned myself off it because of the expense.

Instant is an abomination. They don't know any better there.

On the other side, we know nothing compared to the UK when it comes to Indian food. The best US Indian food I have had is about on par with any takeaway indian food in the cheapest places in the UK. (two exceptions I'll mention in a bit).

I never noticed many of these food differences before when I was living in the UK, because I wasn't the cook and also wasn't especially interested in food then. Now it's different.

You can get an extremely interesting picture of the differences between cultures by fully understanding the ways their foods and eating traditions differ. (I realise this is a very cliche observation, but it was new to me. )

A lot of times our perceptions of people don't match reality. A lot of Americans think that Europeans only drink lattes, capuchinos, and the finest coffees. I'm sure cost has a big effect on those habits. So you get people drinking instant, powdered drink, Nesquick, etc. The better coffees really was and remains an urbanite trend or habit.

Being raised by Argentine parents I still don't make breakfast. I've gone out for breakfast and never understood the concept of loading up on eggs, bacon, steak, toast, jams, jelly, butter, pancakes, omelets, chicken fried steak w/ gravy, and so on. Usually when I have anything like that for breakfast I'm ready to go back to bed.

841 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 3:08:15am

re: #840 Gus 802

A lot of times our perceptions of people don't match reality. A lot of Americans think that Europeans only drink lattes, capuchinos, and the finest coffees. I'm sure cost has a big effect on those habits. So you get people drinking instant, powdered drink, Nesquick, etc. The better coffees really was and remains an urbanite trend or habit.


Exactly. I think it's an urban issue. Cost has something to do with it as well. It's always so inetresting to me to see how our perceptions don't match reality.
It would likely shock many people here, but i spent most of 2002-2006 defending Bush policies I didn't even agree with, purely because I was in the UK or Europe and around people who thought American = you voted for bush and can't disagree with anything America does. Uh, what???

Being raised by Argentine parents I still don't make breakfast. I've gone out for breakfast and never understood the concept of loading up on eggs, bacon, steak, toast, jams, jelly, butter, pancakes, omelets, chicken fried steak w/ gravy, and so on. Usually when I have anything like that for breakfast I'm ready to go back to bed.

yes, the supposedly traditional American breakfast which is actually more like brunch or a big meal. (But worse because you need a nap afterwards.) Which most Americans only eat on holidays or for a proper meal, but I have had non-Americans tell me this is what 'real America' eats for every breakfast. Uh, what?

Whatever. I hate pancakes, btw.

842 marsl  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 3:37:14am

re: #829 JasonA


Is it true that instant is really popular in Europe?

In Portugal, you first arrive at work, then go get a cup of coffee. After that, then you go work....

843 limewash  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:43:57am

re: #697 windsagio

Heh, so would she consider herself a "trekker" or a "trekkie"?

844 limewash  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:46:06am

re: #728 Varek Raith

Wow, and I thought I knew the TNG series.

845 TedStriker  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 1:47:40pm

re: #147 tank816

Man, you're so full of shit on this, your eyeballs are brown.

/getthef**kouttahere...

846 TedStriker  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 2:15:58pm

re: #713 Dark_Falcon

In an interesting twist, that's actually what the Enterprise-E actually is. If play some of the games, you find that the Sovereign-class is designed to much more to fight than to explore, unlike the Galaxy-class.

The Borg had a lot to do with that...

847 TedStriker  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 2:17:39pm

re: #717 acwgusa

Not surprising, because it was mentioned that the Enterprise-E was designed and built to fight the Borg, and upgraded for the Dominion war.

/My God, I am A GEEK!

You're not the only one in that boat... ;-P

848 TedStriker  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 2:25:20pm

re: #770 SanFranciscoZionist

"I'll tell you why white people love Wayne Brady. White people love Wayne Brady because Wayne Brady makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X."

*Dave screaming as Wayne Brady shoots him in the leg*

"It was Mooney!!!"

;-P

849 Vambo  Sat, Jan 2, 2010 6:07:06pm

LMAO @ this!!!!

if Palin keeps quitting her jobs, she'll be shining Charles' shoes!


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