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The White House says that the Jeremiah Wright and the Bill Ayers who visited were not ' the ' Jeremiah Wright/Bill Ayers.
I guess we just take them at their word. It's always good.///
But what are the freaking odds??
The White House says that the Jeremiah Wright and the Bill Ayers who visited were not ' the ' Jeremiah Wright/Bill Ayers.
I guess we just take them at their word. It's always good.///
But what are the freaking odds??
Are you seriously suggesting that the White House is lying about that?
It's interesting to see his "logic". He refuses to denounce the antisemitic conspiracy nuts or distance himself from them. He still considers them brave allies for repeating his bogus story. The entire right wing is headed for the fringe.
By the way, yes, I did block Patterico's account. And I'd do it again in a New York minute.
So today he's whining about it at his blog (with a screenshot as "proof" for some reason) and accusing me of saying that racism is an "exclusively right wing" phenomenon -- an opinion I do not hold, and which I have never written. Not once.
re: #7 Charles
By ' the White House', if you mean do I think it possible (I am not accusing them ) that some spokesman or other has provided incorrect information regarding the visitor logs, I think sure, anything is possible. It's not as if we haven't been given incorrect information before that later has to be 'corrected.'... by Gibbs, Napolitano,
Biden, etc, etc.
Fox Nation... is that Fox News? if so, they will certainly have to correct the Bertha Lewis thing soon or later. Give them at least as much time as it took the President to respond to the last terrorist incident... six days would be about right.///
Let's say that the Bertha Lewis who visited the White House among thousands of other people was indeed the ACORN Bertha Lewis.
I'm no fan of ACORN, nor of ACORN's Bertha Lewis.
But why would Bertha Lewis' visit be outrage-worthy? Maybe she had a meeting with the President? Don't lots of people meet with the President?
Good point. Thousands of people get photo ops with the President as well as other politicians. Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc probably know less than 10% of the people with whom they've been photographed.
Seems like this was illustrated about a month ago...
I understand that.
That's why I said "Let's say that . . .".
In other words, let's pretend that ACORN's Bertha Lewis visited the White House. Why would that be outrage-worthy?
I see your point -- and I agree. But you have to understand that to these obsessed weirdos, the mere fact that someone from ACORN visited the White House would be cause for outrageous outrage. They've turned ACORN into a fearsome boogeyman, 100% evil.
That's very serious. As if the original stuff is scurrilous enough, doubling down by attacking you is a new low.
Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls:
Who steals my purse steals trash; ’tis something, nothing;
‘Twas mine, ’tis his, and has been slave to thousands:
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed.
-- William Shakespeare, Othello
Well you're talking about extremists here. They've already made Acorn the boogyman here and they already hate the current President so putting the two together is like a large sundae with a cherry on top to add to their fuel hysteria over a socialist, communist, marxists, etc. beliefs.
Fox Nation... is that Fox News? if so, they will certainly have to correct the Bertha Lewis thing soon or later. Give them at least as much time as it took the President to respond to the last terrorist incident... six days would be about right.///
But why would Bertha Lewis' visit be outrage-worthy? Maybe she had a meeting with the President? Don't lots of people meet with the President?
Because they think there's a conspiracy with acorn. Stolen elections, redistributing wealth, slave reparations, oppressing white culture, indoctrinating children, silencing dissent. To the wingnuts, Acorn is very powerful and dangerous.
Really, what is more important re WH visitors is the story that has been pretty much dropped, that of Desiree Rogers' claiming executive privilege or something like it. The Salahis and their sashaying into the state dinner may have been hilarious in some ways, but it's actually pretty serious.
re: #30 Charles
While the incidents are factually similar, the time frame and our analysts' understanding of those two airline attempts are very, very different. The shoebomber came right on the heels, pretty much, of 9-11, that December, when policy was still very unclear in the Bush administration. It was quickly determined by the same administration that treating them like criminals was not the way to go... their bad, and the mindset was changed.
re: #31 Killgore Trout
Any group that gets that much of our tax money and has that much fraud involving our elections is dangerous, and not just to the ' wingnuts'.
Then again, some people really don't care.
Because they think there's a conspiracy with acorn. Stolen elections, redistributing wealth, slave reparations, oppressing white culture, indoctrinating children, silencing dissent. To the wingnuts, Acorn is very powerful and dangerous.
ACORN seems to be very poorly managed; and poorly managed organizations tend not to be powerful. I'm not sure how much good they do; the local ACORN seems to be very good at tooting their own horn without really doing much of anything.
At any rate - I will say that every day, I am very glad I did not get sucked into the hysteria that led to the flounces from here and the move to various stalker blogs.
re: #28 reine.de.tout
This is an organization riddled with corruption and full of people who are or will be under indictment for various crimes. It's just too reminiscent of Chicago-style politics as usual... although I guess that shouldn't surprise anyone, since the WH is full of Chicago-style pols.
re: #21 Charles
Got it, I totally believe that.
But seriously Reine.De.tout has a good point-Even if it was true, So freakin what?
Hypothetical- He has Bill Ayers or (fill in obnoxious personality of your artificial outrage choice) in for a meet.
You can assume conspiracy or you can think "trip to the Presidential woodshed". Unless you have transcripts of the meet you have no idea at all.
I guess I just am not at all comfortable micromanaging WH visits.
Any group that gets that much of our tax money and has that much fraud involving our elections is dangerous, and not just to the ' wingnuts'.
Then again, some people really don't care.
...and those kids haven't released all their videos. I'm more than a little curious as to what else they have.
Doesn't the White House Visitor's log include the general public? Meaning the average tourist vistors that sign-up to visit and explore the public areas of the white house?
If so this Bertha Lewis was a general visitor who signed up for a tour. Why would there be a lie about that?
I'm not even sure most far-right nuts would be able to articulate exactly what the problem with ACORN is - it's really more of a chinese whispers campaign where if enough pundits keep implying that they are public enemy no. 1, people will accept it as a given without questioning the logic behind it.
Then again, coming from outside the U.S. I always find it strange that voter registration seems to be in the hands of disorganised and decentralised third party organisations to begin with.
And it's a textbook case of libel. Please email the editors at First Things and let them know that this completely beyond the pale. Here's their address:
ft -at- firstthings.com
If they don't take action to remove this post, I'm seriously considering consulting my lawyer.
I say cut federal funding for ACORN and AARP. I don't see the logic behind using taxpayer dollars to fund groups so they can use the funds to lobby for more taxpayer dollars.
Doesn't the White House Visitor's log include the general public? Meaning the average tourist vistors that sign-up to visit and explore the public areas of the white house?
If so this Bertha Lewis was a general visitor who signed up for a tour. Why would there be a lie about that?
It appears that the list they got covered a period of several weeks, and it contained somewhere in the neighborhood of 25,000 to 30,000 names.
re: #50 rwmofo
Supposedly there are more and different investigations pending, caught on tape. Probably perfectly good explanations for them all, nothing to see there.///
Doesn't the White House Visitor's log include the general public? Meaning the average tourist vistors that sign-up to visit and explore the public areas of the white house?
If so this Bertha Lewis was a general visitor who signed up for a tour. Why would there be a lie about that?
1) The story was "too good to verify."
2) Now that it was proved a couple days ago Big Government had it wrong, plus their commenters are going ape-shit pointing out that they're wrong, they still won't correct their error.
The right wing bloggers pushing this story have severely overestimated the public's capacity (or desire) to be outraged every other day. Unless a person has nothing else to do, this constant patter of minor stories puffed up into major horriblenesses becomes background noise, and people just tune out.
The groups, Acorn, one of the country’s largest community organizing groups, and the Points of Light Institute, which works to encourage civic activism and volunteering, have dealt with the problems in very different ways.
Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. After Points of Light noticed financial irregularities in early June, it took less than a month for management to alert federal prosecutors, although group officials say they have no clear idea yet what the financial impact may be.
A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke.
The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and not to alert law enforcement.
Dale Rathke remained on Acorn’s payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him.
Any organization that is comfortable enough to play with voter registration (the 'we didn't know' routine gets old after the 8th or 9th time) and engage in threatening banks doesn't get to play the harmless political ingenue.
ACORN may not be the devil incarnate but neither are they benign.
re: #53 Charles
He has to be a creep to keep that stuff going. It's bad enough without trying to use it just to attack someone you disagree with. Who is Jim Hoft anyway?
And it's a textbook case of libel. Please email the editors at First Things and let them know that this completely beyond the pale. Here's their address:
ft -at- firstthings.com
If they don't take action to remove this post, I'm seriously considering consulting my lawyer.
The right wing bloggers pushing this story have severely overestimated the public's capacity (or desire) to be outraged every other day. Unless a person has nothing else to do, this constant patter of minor stories puffed up into major horriblenesses becomes background noise, and people just tune out.
re: #69 rwmofo
There's a slight difference between being cleared by an internal investigation or a Congressional committee vs being charged by state DA's with crimes. :)
Hot Air readers are cheering some (probably) bogus scandal regarding Obama's nominee for TSA cheif. He also happens to be a black man...
The very first comment...
Southers obviously was not chosen for the content of his character…
Its okay. He is black and a democrat. He is allowed to break the law and not have to answer for it. Hell, its a resume enhancer.
Blarg the Destroyer on January 2, 2010 at 12:29 PM
...
WTH is up with the minorities in the Obama administration? They are really giving their respective races a bad name. It seems like every one of them is corrupt in one way or another.
At least he’s not white. Barrie has picked enough of those guys for different positions. I was almost starting to think he might be a tad racist or something.
There's a slight difference between being cleared by an internal investigation or a Congressional committee vs being charged by state DA's with crimes. :)
True. My ex-wife will likely tell you that I "don't always do what I'm told" so I'm a jerk. However, I ran an investigation on myself and determined that I'm a nice guy.
Dale Rathke remained on Acorn’s payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him.
Can you imagine if one of us, average joe blow, stole a large sum of money from our employer that we would not be fired, arrested, put on trial possibly to do jail time? Yet this guy Dale Rathke keeps his job for nearly 10 years? This is why people are outraged at ACORN. If this isn't corruption then I don't know what is. Funded by our paychecks.
And it's a textbook case of libel. Please email the editors at First Things and let them know that this completely beyond the pale. Here's their address:
ft -at- firstthings.com
If they don't take action to remove this post, I'm seriously considering consulting my lawyer.
Very true and I'm glad for this case in Nevada if they're found guilty then they need to be prosecuted to the full degree.
I'm sure there is voter registration fraud coming from ACORN when you're paying minimum to low wage and you pay by how many you register for income. Obviously people will abuse that and register "mickey mouse" so they can get better income. But there has been no evidence that voter registration fraud leads to voter fraud.
I'm not saying they don't have problem. Tell what organization that funds low wadges for employees won't have cases here an there of corruption, but putting them up to the pedestal as the most evil organization is ridiculous. Sorry but I don't see ACORN up there with dark organization such as blackwater or halburton who wouldn't let one of their employee sue for rape or who electrocuted our soldiers due to shoddy electrical construction in Iraq.
re: #73 Killgore Trout
Think we have problems with airline security now? Let's see how things improve when Souther encourages the TSA employees to unionize. A strike right around next Christmas would really be fun.
Not.
Here's an opinion on libel from Eugene Volokh that might be of interest to some overheated commenters at other sites:
Eugene Volokh, professor of law at the University of California at Los Angeles' School of Law, said the case serves as another reminder that online anonymity does not automatically provide immunity against libel charges.
Individuals who libel or defame others online, anonymously or otherwise, are just as exposed to lawsuits as they are in the physical world and cannot expect First Amendment rights to automatically protect them.
"Saying you're a lousy professor is one thing. But saying you molest 13-year olds is completely different," he said. Though one might use a pseudonym to conceal their true identity a court can force an ISP to unmask them in such cases, Volokh said.
Judges in other cases have shown a willingness to do just that if, in their opinion, the complaints had merit.
In a similar case earlier this year, a Texas circuit court judge ordered an online news aggregation site to turn over identifying information on 178 people who had anonymously posted allegedly defamatory comments about two individuals involved in a sexual assault case. The two individuals, who were acquitted of all charges, had claimed they had been subjected to intense and inarguably defamatory comments in the online forum. [Link: www.networkworld.com...]
Then again, coming from outside the U.S. I always find it strange that voter registration seems to be in the hands of disorganised and decentralised third party organisations to begin with.
It isn't really, Acorn targets the poor and politically apathetic who have never bothered to register. Anyone can register to vote at numerous locations in the U.S. or by filling out a standard form which is then turned into the registrars office. Acorn paid people to go door to door trying to get people to fill out the registration forms which Acorn would then turn in for them.
They paid their workers by the number of completed forms that they turned in so some workers got cute and falsified the forms. When Acorn reviewed the forms and saw "Mickey Mouse" or whatever they knew that some forms had been falsified. Unfortunately the law says that they had to turn them into the registrar anyway, once the form has been filled out it is a felony to not turn it in to the voter registration office.
Acorn informed the registrar that they had forms that they suspected had been falsified when they handed them over. Everything that they did has been found to be perfectly legal and proper, two independent reviews have backed that up. There never was any voter fraud, not one of those fraudulent registrations was accepted nor did anyone attempt to actually vote using any of the fake names.
The whole thing is a made up tempest in a teapot, it is ridiculous that we are even still discussing it.
In late October, the White House released extensive visitors logs, prompting some thorough reviews of who's stepped foot in 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Far-right activists thought they'd hit the mother lode when they started going through the list of names. The Weekly Standard's Michael Goldfarb proclaimed, "I tried to warn you, America. Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers!"
What conservatives didn't realize is that, from time to time, different people have the same name. Yes, someone named William Ayers visited the White House this year, but not that William Ayers. Someone named Jeremiah Wright stopped by, but not that Jeremiah Wright. Michael Jordan and Michael Moore stopped by, but not the ones you know. Conservatives got excited for nothing.
And this week, they did it again.
More at link.
Now I'm off to see this Gateway Pundit post and email the firstthings people about it.BBL
Good point. Thousands of people get photo ops with the President as well as other politicians. Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc probably know less than 10% of the people with whom they've been photographed.
That's why pictures of the President with a person on their "power wall" only carry weight if they are not "shaking hands, standing beside"... because there are so many of them. I am guessing that they know less than five percent of the people they are photographed with.
Think we have problems with airline security now? Let's see how things improve when Souther encourages the TSA employees to unionize. A strike right around next Christmas would really be fun.
Not.
I don't believe anything is hear from Republicans these days. Whatever the reality of the situation is irrelevant to me. Hot Air readers are against him because he's black. that's it. Whatever conspiracies or lies they make up about him is secondary.
And it's a textbook case of libel. Please email the editors at First Things and let them know that this completely beyond the pale. Here's their address:
ft -at- firstthings.com
If they don't take action to remove this post, I'm seriously considering consulting my lawyer.
Until I read this, I considered Paul Begala the most disingenuous and disgusting person I'm aware of in politics. Jim Hoft is Paul Begala -1.
Think we have problems with airline security now? Let's see how things improve when Souther encourages the TSA employees to unionize. A strike right around next Christmas would really be fun.
Not.
He broke the law in the past but won't do it again.
Meanwhile you have a rightwing hateblogger making libelous accusations in a right wing theocrat magazine. (First Things)
Background on Neuhaus (now deceased) and first things:
This Neuhaus uncharitably savaged his ideological enemies in his monthly column for First Things and walked a fine line between predicting that the culture war was on the verge of erupting into violence and actively inciting such violence. This Neuhaus sometimes spoke as if faithful Catholics had a positive duty to vote for the Republican Party, and he strongly encouraged the American bishops to deny the sacrament of Communion to pro-choice Catholic politicians. This Neuhaus was proudly authoritarian, bullying in temperament, and staunchly traditionalist.
I guess I can't get too worked up about this, after thinking about it. Seems to me there are two possibilities:
1. The Bertha E. Lewis is the ACORN Bertha Lewis, but the middle initial was misread, it was an M. that kinda looked like an E. Okay, big deal.
2. The Bertha E. Lewis is, in fact, a totally different person. Okay, so what?
If it's the first, it would be kind of cool if Bertha Lewis stood up and said, "Yeah, that was me. What's your point? That even though I'm an American citizen just like all of you, I shouldn't go to what you folks always refer to as 'the people's house'? Really?"
If it's the second, it would be really cool if that Bertha Lewis stood up and said something like, "I was the Bertha Lewis who went on the tour. I'm Bertha Lewis from St. Louis. Hey! If you're ever in St. Louis, please drop by Bertha Lewis's Cakes, Candies, and Confections - conveniently located on Beale Street. We have the finest cakes, pies, and tasty home-made candies on either side of the Mississippi!"
(I'm actually hoping for option 2 - 'cause I loves me them tasty home-made candies!)
The accusations against ACORN are irrelevant to this topic.
But don't let me stop you from rehashing them over and over.
You have to admit it's funny Charles..
We both know some 78 year old ex-union member voted last year as Donald Duck..
*so you are Donald Duck?*
*Damn right Son! Acorn said so.. for 5 bucks you can be Gandhi*
*So you are Donald Duck?*
* Read the paperwork son!*
*Why did you sign your name David Levities Jr.?*
*Too Jewish?*
* borderline*
*Where do I vote?*
*Donald?*
*Call me David*
I don't have time to check out every bogus claim these idiots make. They've been so dishonest and blatantly racist that I just don't take them seriously. It would be a waste of time.
And it's a textbook case of libel. Please email the editors at First Things and let them know that this completely beyond the pale. Here's their address:
ft -at- firstthings.com
If they don't take action to remove this post, I'm seriously considering consulting my lawyer.
re: #107 Obdicut
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but with all due respect, I disagree... KT was quite clear, and it is not as if someone was taking advantage of a misstatement.
I was at an African American man's house this morning who lives in an area of Virginia that had a family that was "Vanderbilt rich", he had the same last name. I'll call him "Mr. Vanderbilt".
I kiddingly said "You related to the 'Vanderbilts'?"
He (without an ounce of snark, very conversationally) replied, "I am descendant of Vanderbilt slaves. I have no idea what my real last name would've been."
I grew up in the South, but you could have knocked me over with a feather. The idea of slavery still surprises me.
Nobody voted as Donald Duck, except someone who was perhaps named that by terrible parents.
In Indiana by law..You show a drivers license to vote..Period amen..It was upheld by the SCOTUS last year...Voter fraud is so small as not be be an issue..I was worried about the blue haired ladies in Florida in 2000 that played Bingo every Friday night but couldn't handle hanging Chads..
That worried me
re: #108 Killgore Trout
KT, seriously... don't you think it is prejudiced to paint all Hot Air participants as ' racists'? While it may be a site that's not your fave, it is linked and blogrolled by such mainstreamers as Ben Smith for Politico. I don't think you would call him a racist.
Just saying.
What is this weird conceit that someone who thinks what you did was lame is 'offended' by it? I'm not in the least bit offended, I just think that taking cheap shots at LGFers in order to defend Hot Air posters is lame. It's not offensive.
I would say not everyone is racist, but since they continue to go to a site where racism is highly evident and where they publish RSM, they are sympathetic to racists if they continue to go there. I don't see commenters over there doing any smackdown on racism. I would wager that if some tried that they would be hounded out.
If you are a commenter over there who is not sympathetic towards racism, why don't you try to call it out?
re: #124 Thanos
I'm neither a commenter there or much of a reader, except when linked elsewhere.
But you'd think that Ben Smith and others would de-link them, if they were all that heinous.
re: #123 beekiller
What was hilarious was reading the unfolding when you hit search on Twitter and entered huffpo... at first, people were believing that the comments were real and the opinions were all over the place.
Fox Nation... is that Fox News? if so, they will certainly have to correct the Bertha Lewis thing soon or later. Give them at least as much time as it took the President to respond to the last terrorist incident... six days would be about right.///
Six days is how long it took Bush to respond to the shoe bomber, not how long it took Obama to respond to the underpants bomber...get your outrage points STRAIGHT!!!
And it's a textbook case of libel. Please email the editors at First Things and let them know that this completely beyond the pale. Here's their address:
ft -at- firstthings.com
If they don't take action to remove this post, I'm seriously considering consulting my lawyer.
Go for it. Initial consults are typically free. It only starts costing you money once you decide to actually pursue legal action.
Note that, although it likely wouldn't affect the ultimate outcome of a libel suit, continued public flogging of the issue might muddy the waters somewhat.
I would say not everyone is racist, but since they continue to go to a site where racism is highly evident and where they publish RSM, they are sympathetic to racists if they continue to go there. I don't see commenters over there doing any smackdown on racism. I would wager that if some tried that they would be hounded out.
If you are a commenter over there who is not sympathetic towards racism, why don't you try to call it out?
I think people are labouring under the delusion that the many HotAir comments posted here have been cherrypicked, or are hard to find. They aren't. They're everywhere.
Posting on HotAir at this point is like posting on StormFront-- you might just as believably defend Stormfront commenters by saying they don't all go there for the racism, some are there for the recipe threads. *
*(which I think they have! Come for the potluck, stay for the Klan meeting!)
re: #130 JoyousMN
Get your apples and oranges straight... our knowledge and formulation of response was vastly different for the two incidents, even though they were both similar outwardly. The shoe bomber, as said previously, happened just after 9-11 when nothing was in place re how to deal with such perps.
Oh I understand all right. When Bush took 6 days it was because he was busy fightin' the terrorists in hand-to-hand combat so it took him longer. Obama is a Communist/Socialist so he was prolly hiding in a corner that's why it took him THREES DAYS!!!
//
re:dealing with such perps
tradewind, we have a document that underpins all of our laws in this country. We call it "The Constitution." In this document are the guidelines we use when people break our laws. We call that "The rule of law." This is how we run our country. Not much that was "put in place" to "take care of such perps" is going to past constitutional muster and Obama knows that. They are trying to get us back to before the "NEW and Improved Justice system" was instituted and back to using old/outdated (but constitutional) justice.
Just to clear things up on the White House visitor logs, not every person on those lists was actually IN the White House. Those logs refer to all folks who visit the White House campus. As in, the OEOB/EEOB and other offices. Not every one of those people visited with the president, nor met with his senior staff. Most folks are visiting with a specific liaison office or are attending an event. Just about every takeoff and landing of Marine One has several dozen folks attending it. They are the people the president (ANY president) waves to when he gets on and off. During the Bush years, there were hundreds of folks there every week just for the T-ball games. It's not remotely noteworthy that more than 25,000 people were on campus.
Most people visiting the White House do not get their pic taken with the president, very few ever see him. Even fewer actually are granted West Wing tours. It's patently absurd to judge Obama's Office of Political Affairs any differently than any other president's staff. Many of us who are still firmly on the right, as I am, remain appalled that people like David Keene or Grover Norquist were afforded such access.
If people want change, then they have to start running for office themselves and voting against incumbents who are more interested in power than the Constitution. Idiocy knows no party.
The Bertha Lewis story is a tempest in a teapot.
As for the first things attack on Charles, I am without words other than these: why are such "religious" people so comfortable talking about 'fisting.' Its revolting. Their comfort in repeating the vile things speaks volumes. Mr. Johnson should lawyer up.
still amazes me how people fixate on ACORN. if it were really about "corruption" you'd think they'd be just as distressed over military contractors... some of those were actually charged with committing real crimes. but no, it's not about that. it's about Obama, and I'm sick the "R" word and how meaningless it has become, so I'll just leave it at that.
Frank says: