Florida GOP Chairman Bails

Politics • Views: 2,682

The far right creationist wing of the Republican Party is a step closer to taking control of the party in Florida tonight: Florida GOP Chairman Resigns.

The resignation of Florida Republican Party Chairman Jim Greer today — a decision that came after weeks of calls for his head from conservatives — raises the question of whether Gov. Charlie Crist’s already embattled Senate candidacy has sustained a blow from which it cannot recover.

Greer’s status as one of Crist’s closest allies — and a leading voice for the moderate wing of the party — was the main reason for his ouster although his foes cited spending decisions and what they termed as disappointing fundraising as the impetus for the coup.

In a conference call this afternoon announcing his decision, Greer accused his opponents of attempting to destroy him at the expense of the party. “While some are more interested in tearing and shredding the fabric of the Republican Party to pieces, I will not be a participant in this destructive behavior,” Greer said.

Crist moved quickly to get beyond the Greer controversy, releasing a statement praising his ally for a “selfless dedication” to the party” before quickly adding: “I call on Florida Republicans to unite behind our common values of less government and more personal freedom and sincerely hope that we can move forward together to ensure statewide Republican victories in 2010.”

Privately, Crist allies noted that the Greer controversy had become a considerable distraction to the governor’s campaign and that its end — even though it cost a friend and ally his job — ultimately will be a good thing for Crist’s candidacy.

A source close to former state House Speaker Marco Rubio, whose primary challenge to Crist has picked up considerable momentum in the past few months, said that the implications for the governor are far more wide-ranging — and negative.

“Jim Greer’s resignation represents the total collapse of an entire wing of the Charlie Crist house of cards,” said the Rubio source. “There’s blood in the water and Charlie Crist now finds himself on a smaller boat.”

And the right wing continues its plunge into the abyss.

Jump to bottom

364 comments
1 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:49:21pm
2 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:50:54pm

This will not end well.

3 b_sharp  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:55:06pm

Is there no bottom?

4 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:55:08pm

The FoxNews headline says it all:

Florida GOP Chief Resigns in Bow to Tea Partiers

Read it and weep.

5 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:55:41pm

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Does anyone else remember laughing at the left when the anti-reality crazies and enviro-terrorists were the face of their party twentyfive years ago? Now the same kind of lunatics have just about completely taken over our side...

Image: CristLiberal.jpg

6 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:55:56pm

I'm considering registering as a Democrat this year.

7 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:57:49pm

re: #1 Sharmuta

Nice.

8 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:57:52pm

re: #6 Gus 802

I'm considering registering as a Democrat this year.

Don't do that, First see if their is a sane Republican in your state you can support.

9 shiplord kirel  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:57:57pm

Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Barry Goldwater are spinning in their graves.

10 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:58:18pm

re: #5 ausador

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Does anyone else remember laughing at the left when the anti-reality crazies and enviro-terrorists were the face of their party twentyfive years ago? Now the same kind of lunatics have just about completely taken over our side...

[Link: i603.photobucket.com...]

That's a funny cartoon yet so appropriate. It reminds me of when I was hearing people call McCain far-right in 2008 and at the same time hearing him called a progressive today by Beck.

11 windsagio  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:58:27pm

re: #6 Gus 802

wow! hah, tbh I thought you were one >>

Shows one never knows!

12 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 8:59:27pm
The fantasies we planned, well, Maggie,
I'm living them now.
All the dreams we sang, oh, we damn sure knew


Here's hoping you have dreams and purpose in 2010

13 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:00:10pm

re: #11 windsagio

wow! hah, tbh I thought you were one >>

Shows one never knows!

I was a registered Dem for most of my life. Since 2004 I've been unaffiliated.

14 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:00:38pm

The mask is almost fully off. In a few months we can line 'em up and vote conservatism out of American politics once and for all.

15 jaunte  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:01:28pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

Don't do that, First see if their is a sane Republican in your state you can support.


The new Texas House Speaker, Joe Straus, is pretty sane.

Standing on the dais of the Texas House of Representatives, Straus says the proudest moment of his young political career came at the end of his first session as speaker.

"I remember looking out at this scene: It was about 4 in the morning in May at the end of the session. We took a final vote on the budget and it passed 150 to zero — 76 Republicans and 74 Democrats all voted yes to the budget," Straus says.
[Link: www.npr.org...]

16 shiplord kirel  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:01:28pm

Crist needs to fatten up, grow a goatee and wave a gun around at his next rally.

17 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:02:17pm

re: #3 b_sharp

Is there no bottom?

I keep hoping, but I guess a crushing defeat in 2010 is the only thing that might slow them down. By the same token if that does happen some of these lunatics actually are agitated enough to take up arms against this country if they lose again. I'm really starting to believe that we will not get out of this without civil unrest and violence (small scale to be sure, but that is no consolation if it is your wife or child that gets killed.)

Perhaps then the "outrage machine" that has found a niche making money from them will finally realize that words really do have consequences.

18 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:03:48pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

Don't do that, First see if their is a sane Republican in your state you can support.

Maybe as a statement. The least sane in my state was Tancredo but he's outside of my district. We have one running here now that sat through a nirther comment straight faced.

19 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:04:12pm

re: #16 shiplord kirel

Crist needs to fatten up, grow a goatee and wave a gun around at his next rally.

Tactical boots?

20 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:05:12pm

re: #6 Gus 802

I'm considering registering as a Democrat this year.

Go Green. Unless they run Cynthia McKinney again in 2012, then you can go Democrat.

21 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:05:15pm

re: #14 laZardo

The mask is almost fully off. In a few months we can line 'em up and vote conservatism out of American politics once and for all.

Nah. Let's not confuse the party with the philosophy.

22 jgold  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:05:25pm

With regard to closing Guantanamo the Obama admin says that it must be closed because it is a recruitment tool for AQ. Is there any evidence at all for this statement? It does not make any logical sense to me - these terrorist are freaking crazy people. How does having a prison in Cuba make Muslims want to join AQ?

23 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:05:50pm

re: #18 Gus 802

Maybe as a statement. The least sane in my state was Tancredo but he's outside of my district. We have one running here now that sat through a nirther comment straight faced.

You're in Colorado, then. Talk to Walter, he may know of someone you can support honorably.

24 jaunte  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:06:31pm

re: #22 jgold

The have a full armory of complaints.

25 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:06:33pm

re: #21 JasonA

Nah. Let's not confuse the party with the philosophy.

As I've said many times before, conservatism has not had a steady party affiliation through American history. But if they're all on one (metaphorical) boat, sinking it is gonna be easier.

26 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:06:53pm

re: #22 jgold

Simply put it helps them convince others to become terrorists. They don't start off crazy.

27 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:07:12pm

re: #22 jgold

They are closing it because it's not legally feasible to keep it running. It was a nice try but it's not going to work.

28 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:07:25pm

This is an omen of more bad news. If you are opposed to huge government involvement in the economy as most fiscal conservatives would be vis-a-vis health care legislation, then this kind of fracturing of the right will mean more leftist economic policies.

I still do not understand the obsessive hate for Lindsey Graham. He is a solid conservative, yet the fringe hates on him for daring to be bipartisan. The fringe even refrained from voting for McCain, choosing to stay home instead of voting because he wasn't conservative enough for them.

The far right can go screw themselves.

29 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:07:51pm

re: #17 ausador

I keep hoping, but I guess a crushing defeat in 2010 is the only thing that might slow them down. By the same token if that does happen some of these lunatics actually are agitated enough to take up arms against this country if they lose again. I'm really starting to believe that we will not get out of this without civil unrest and violence (small scale to be sure, but that is no consolation if it is your wife or child that gets killed.)

Perhaps then the "outrage machine" that has found a niche making money from them will finally realize that words really do have consequences.

By many accounts it is the Dems who are headed for major losses in 2010.

30 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:09:47pm

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

You're in Colorado, then. Talk to Walter, he may know of someone you can support honorably.

We have a few. Our previous governor Owens was a rather social conservative Republican but he was a straight shooter.

31 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:10:36pm

The gleeful comments forecasting a conservative party gone astray are interesting. If one is not a fan of the rather precarious position our country is in, the last thing you should want is trouble for the opponent of the Democratic party.

32 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:10:57pm

re: #20 laZardo

Go Green. Unless they run Cynthia McKinney again in 2012, then you can go Democrat.

Cynthia McKinney: Unsafe at any Speed /

33 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:11:17pm

This Is Your Life

Only after disaster can we be resurrected
It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything

-Tyler Durden
/Bring it on

34 shiplord kirel  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:11:23pm

re: #32 Gus 802

Cynthia McKinney: Unsafe at any Speed /

Cynbat the Sailor

35 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:11:45pm

re: #32 Gus 802

Subtle Nader hit there?

36 jgold  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:11:56pm

What's the difference between a prison in the US and a prison in Cuba when you are recruiting a new member of the AQ suicide squad?? If Guantanamo is closed do you really think it will disuade someone from joining?? re: #27 Killgore Trout

37 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:12:07pm

re: #29 Spare O'Lake

By many accounts it is the Dems who are headed for major losses in 2010.

Republicans can afford to be fractured somewhat in a congressional election cycle. Only if they are a well run party can the see sweeping changes. They'll see increases even if they fracture. But there will be lost opportunities and may not regain the House as a result--or just regain it with a thin majority.

38 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:12:18pm

re: #35 Rightwingconspirator

Subtle Nader hit there?

Yep. Couldn't resist. Saw Green Party and McKinney...

39 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:12:27pm

re: #36 jgold

If Guantanamo is closed do you really think it will disuade someone from joining??


No

40 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:13:11pm

re: #38 Gus 802

I liked it.

41 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:13:40pm
42 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:14:21pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

One of the best movies ever. Once, a decade ago more or less, I was going through a pretty stout depression.. I fell asleep every night watching this movie. The weird take on finding meaning in life somehow helped me get through.

43 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:14:54pm

I know what I want,
But I just don't know

44 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:15:14pm

re: #41 laZardo

Well fuck. I'm staying Independent.

"My fellow Americans..."

/Now she hates Obama.

45 avanti  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:15:26pm

Breaking news on the Washington Post, Dodd to retire.

46 lucky dog  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:15:44pm

re: #37 BryanS

Watch for the Tea Baggers to ruin that!

47 stayfrosty  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:15:52pm

I have hard time believing this had more to do with the theory of evolution than with fundamental fiscal policy differences between Crist and his supporters and fiscal conservatives. I've yet to see a poll amongst conservative voters say that creationism and not the economy is the number one issue.

48 palomino  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:16:18pm

You could see some of this coming when the base freaked out over the Crist-Obama hug 6 months ago. The GOP's push for ideological purity has become irrational and self-destructive when people like Charlie Crist are endangered.

Crist is one of the most sensible and appealing and capable Republicans in the whole country. If the party was operating sanely, they would recognize these attributes and push him to the fore.

But the party's internal dynamics now are dominated by those trying to settle scores or martyr themselves, so pragmatists like Crist are just demonized as pussies.

49 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:16:43pm

re: #47 stayfrosty

I have hard time believing this had more to do with the theory of evolution than with fundamental fiscal policy differences between Crist and his supporters and fiscal conservatives. I've yet to see a poll amongst conservative voters say that creationism and not the economy is the number one issue.

Who said it was the number one issue?

Straw man.

50 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:16:55pm

re: #45 avanti

Breaking news on the Washington Post, Dodd to retire.

Really? It's about time.

51 albusteve  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:16:59pm

re: #45 avanti

Breaking news on the Washington Post, Dodd to retire.

bailing out...ha!...another fucking rat...wouldn't surprise me to see Reid suddenly retire...maybe Murtha

52 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:17:06pm

re: #45 avanti

Breaking news on the Washington Post, Dodd to retire.

That should help the Dow almost as much as IBM posting higher than expected earnings.

53 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:17:06pm

re: #41 laZardo

You and me both.

54 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:17:15pm

re: #41 laZardo

Well fuck. I'm staying Independent.

Good that you checked. Any party that endorses the Failboat-sailing McKinney is unworthy of support.

55 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:17:17pm

re: #45 avanti

Breaking news on the Washington Post, Dodd to retire.

Whoa. You're right. Set to announce tomorrow.

56 avanti  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:18:02pm

re: #52 cliffster

That should help the Dow almost as much as IBM posting higher than expected earnings.

Dodd.

57 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:18:51pm

re: #54 Dark_Falcon

Good that you checked. Any party that endorses the Failboat-sailing McKinney is unworthy of support.

Listening to a speech she made on 12/12. She called Obama a war criminal.

58 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:18:53pm

re: #46 lucky dog

Watch for the Tea Baggers to ruin that!

I've been wondering if the right needs their own Nader moment to snap them into mainstream politics. The Greens are a left wing extremist party that can now safely be ignored since they ruined Gore's presidential bid. Maybe the right needs a similar thing--somewhere for the crazies to go so the party can be more mainstream.

59 Lidane  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:19:04pm

re: #6 Gus 802

Is there any way to register without a party affiliation or as an independent? That might be a better option.

60 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:19:13pm

re: #45 avanti

Breaking news on the Washington Post, Dodd to retire.

Not too surprising, though it may actually hurt the GOP's chances for a pickup in Connecticut by removing the unpopular incumbent.

61 lucky dog  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:20:12pm

re: #58 BryanS

I'm afraid the crazies will stay with the republican party!

62 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:20:23pm

re: #56 avanti

Yeah, maybe the Democrat's strategy in 2010 - the weakest members exit now and let a fresh Dem without baggage do battle.

63 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:20:35pm

re: #59 Lidane

Is there any way to register without a party affiliation or as an independent? That might be a better option.

Yes, you can register as unaffiliated or independent. Means you can't vote in primaries unless they're open primary states.

64 avanti  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:20:36pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

Not too surprising, though it may actually hurt the GOP's chances for a pickup in Connecticut by removing the unpopular incumbent.

Yep, good news for the Dems.:

State Attorney General Richard Blumenthal is widely expected to step into the void filled by Dodd and, at least at first blush, should drastically increase Democrats' chances of holding the seat.

Blumenthal, who has served as state Attorney General since 1990, is the most popular politician in the state and has long coveted a Senate seat; he had already signaled that he would run for the Democratic nomination against Sen. Joe Lieberman (I) in 2012. (A sidenote: Assuming Blumenthal gets in to the race, Rep. Chris Murphy could be the long-term beneficiary as he is widely regarded as a rising star and would be at the top of the list of Democratic hopefuls to challenge Lieberman in 2012.)

Without Dodd as a foil, Republicans chances of taking over a seat in this solidly blue state are considerably diminished. Former Rep. Rob Simmons and wealthy businesswoman Linda McMahon are battling it out for the Republican nod but either would start as an underdog in a general election matchup with Blumenthal."

65 albusteve  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:20:41pm

re: #57 Gus 802

Listening to a speech she made on 12/12. She called Obama a war criminal.

by the lefts own standards he is...life is a bitch sometimes

66 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:21:15pm

Let's see.....it's a post about the abdication of the sane GOP from the party in Florida and in the first 20 posts I see...

Cynthia McKinney.

Hmmm...missing the point....

67 stayfrosty  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:21:19pm

re: #49 Charles

Who said it was the number one issue?

Straw man.

Well seeing as how in your post you mention only the "right wing creationist wing of the Republican party" and no other issue to identify the "right wing", I just assumed you were implying it was the most important.

68 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:21:54pm

re: #45 avanti

Breaking news on the Washington Post, Dodd to retire.

Perhaps they can replace him on the Senate finance committee with someone who gives a fuck about our banking system?

69 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:22:08pm
70 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:22:17pm

re: #66 austin_blue

Let's see...it's a post about the abdication of the sane GOP from the party in Florida and in the first 20 posts I see...

Cynthia McKinney.

Hmmm...missing the point...

But, but, I was just keeping pace with the traffic. :)

71 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:22:24pm

re: #64 avanti

Still though, it's good news that we'll be rid of a mastermind of economic collapse.

72 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:22:28pm

re: #57 Gus 802

I always thought those screaming war criminal about GWB were a bit left wingnutty. At least overwrought. But Pres. Obama? Speechless.

73 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:22:33pm

re: #67 stayfrosty

Well seeing as how in your post you mention only the "right wing creationist wing of the Republican party" and no other issue to identify the "right wing", I just assumed you were implying it was the most important.

Marc Rubio is a creationist. I didn't say anything about "most important" -- that comes from nowhere but your own mind.

74 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:22:58pm

re: #47 stayfrosty

I have hard time believing this had more to do with the theory of evolution than with fundamental fiscal policy differences between Crist and his supporters and fiscal conservatives. I've yet to see a poll amongst conservative voters say that creationism and not the economy is the number one issue.

Golly, has that poll been taken?

75 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:23:18pm

re: #29 Spare O'Lake

By many accounts it is the Dems who are headed for major losses in 2010.

Yeah, keep reading those sites, if it makes you sleep better at night or something. We had a marginal chance of taking the House back, or at least we did before all the "third party" or "tea party" Republicans started entering the races, now the polls are a mess and no one has a clue yet who is really ahead.

We never had any chance at all of actually gaining the majority in the senate but at least it looked as though we would take the "super-majority" away from the democrats and prevent them from passing anything without at least some Republican support. It still looks as though we will, but candidates like Rubio taking support away from mainstream candidates like Crist aren't helping at all.

Your apparently an advocate of going outside and shortcircuiting the system, I'm an advocate of demanding change from within. As long as we are divided neither of us can force any real change, candidates attempt to pander to you one day and then to me the next. Perhaps you should look at the last thirty-five years or so of the Democrat party to see how it worked out for them. Change from the inside and to the core of the party is the only thing that actually works...and wins elections.

77 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:24:18pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

Not too surprising, though it may actually hurt the GOP's chances for a pickup in Connecticut by removing the unpopular incumbent.

True, but I'd rather see him leave even though I'd prefer a pickup from the Republicans. Dodd represents all that a politician could do wrong with his position of power.

78 Lidane  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:25:08pm

re: #17 ausador

I keep hoping, but I guess a crushing defeat in 2010 is the only thing that might slow them down.

No it wouldn't. It would only embolden them further, because they'd be convinced that the reason they lost was because the candidates weren't conservative or ideologically pure enough, as if that's the problem in the first place.

The only thing that will slow them down is the national GOP itself exiling these people from the party and making a formal break from the tea parties and from the far right in general. At the rate they're going now, I'd wager that it will take a Mondale-level loss in a Presidential election to finally force the GOP's hand and get these people to STFU and go to the Constitution Party where they belong.

79 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:25:09pm

Chill out everyone.

Click "On Air" at the top. Spinning all vinyl tonight.

80 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:26:35pm

re: #75 ausador

Yeah, keep reading those sites, if it makes you sleep better at night or something. We had a marginal chance of taking the House back, or at least we did before all the "third party" or "tea party" Republicans started entering the races, now the polls are a mess and no one has a clue yet who is really ahead.

We never had any chance at all of actually gaining the majority in the senate but at least it looked as though we would take the "super-majority" away from the democrats and prevent them from passing anything without at least some Republican support. It still looks as though we will, but candidates like Rubio taking support away from mainstream candidates like Crist aren't helping at all.

Your apparently an advocate of going outside and shortcircuiting the system, I'm an advocate of demanding change from within. As long as we are divided neither of us can force any real change, candidates attempt to pander to you one day and then to me the next. Perhaps you should look at the last thirty-five years or so of the Democrat party to see how it worked out for them. Change from the inside and to the core of the party is the only thing that actually works...and wins elections.

Harsh but probably accurate.

Oh, and this is a pet peeve, but please, "You're" instead of "Your".

Cheers!

81 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:26:42pm

re: #61 lucky dog

I'm afraid the crazies will stay with the republican party!

The Dems still have their crazies--hell, one of them is speaker of the House. But the Greens do help reduce their ranks .

82 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:27:03pm

re: #72 Rightwingconspirator

I always thought those screaming war criminal about GWB were a bit left wingnutty. At least overwrought. But Pres. Obama? Speechless.

It's because of Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Yemen, and that Gitmo is still open. Many expected Obama to shut down these operations from the get-go but that's not the case. Obama has been more pragmatic (?) and centrist then they expected.

83 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:27:41pm

Dodd dropping out is very good news for the Democrats. No way the GOP can win this seat now.

84 stayfrosty  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:27:59pm

re: #73 Charles

Marc Rubio is a creationist. I didn't say anything about "most important" -- that comes from nowhere but your own mind.

And Marc Rubio is also a fiscal conservative, while Crist and his supporters backed Obama's stimulus and a lot of other policies fiscal conservatives generally disagree with. Those are some of the main reasons Republicans are moving toward Rubio. Completely omitting that and mentioning only the fact that he's a "right wing creationist" to describe his political ideology doesn't seem to place equal importance on other issues.

85 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:28:39pm

re: #77 BryanS

True, but I'd rather see him leave even though I'd prefer a pickup from the Republicans. Dodd represents all that a politician could do wrong with his position of power.

That's a good point. No matter which party wins now, Connecticut will have a better senator.

86 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:29:06pm

re: #76 Charles

60% of Republicans say humans were created in their present form by God 10,000 years ago.

Aaaargh!!

And this week, on "The Bachelor"....

87 avanti  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:29:16pm

re: #81 BryanS

The Dems still have their crazies--hell, one of them is speaker of the House. But the Greens do help reduce their ranks .

My wet dream is for the Dems to get rid of her. That would be good for a lot of votes.

88 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:29:21pm
89 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:29:45pm

re: #76 Charles

60% of Republicans say humans were created in their present form by God 10,000 years ago.

How is that possible when Sarah Palin mention ions of time last month? /

I do remember hearing her talk once saying eons and eons of time. That's way over 10,000 years.

90 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:30:29pm

re: #76 Charles

60% of Republicans say humans were created in their present form by God 10,000 years ago.

Look at the; % Evolved, God had no part.
Sorry, but just how low those numbers are, across the board, scares me.

91 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:30:38pm

re: #84 stayfrosty

Cool. So just ignore the fact that he's a creationist, because Charlie Crist isn't far enough to the right for you.

I no longer care that the GOP is plunging over a cliff. I'm just laughing at it now.

92 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:30:47pm

re: #82 Gus 802

I think the fact that Obama has been far more pragmatic than expected in national security matters is what pisses them (the far right) off so much.

They so badly want to believe in their idiotic Muslim-manchurian conspiracies, and when it's proved wrong they have to concoct even wilder theories that have yet to be unveiled to keep up their worldview.

An unending orgy of stupid is what we get.

93 stayfrosty  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:30:51pm

re: #89 Gus 802

How is that possible when Sarah Palin mention ions of time last month? /

I do remember hearing her talk once saying eons and eons of time. That's way over 10,000 years.

Hahaha good point.

94 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:31:14pm

I just pulled about a gallon of old greens and stuff out of the fridge and added it to my compost bin. Living smack in the middle of suburbia, I bet I have the only compost pile in 10 miles.

95 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:31:16pm

re: #84 stayfrosty

And Marc Rubio is also a fiscal conservative, while Crist and his supporters backed Obama's stimulus and a lot of other policies fiscal conservatives generally disagree with. Those are some of the main reasons Republicans are moving toward Rubio. Completely omitting that and mentioning only the fact that he's a "right wing creationist" to describe his political ideology doesn't seem to place equal importance on other issues.

Dude, he's an anti-scientific cretin. What does it take to make him unacceptable?

96 Lidane  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:31:36pm

re: #63 Gus 802

Ah, that's right. Since Texas has such weird rules about primaries and caucuses, I tend to forget how it works sometimes. Thanks. :)

97 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:32:00pm

re: #92 erraticsphinx

I think the fact that Obama has been far more pragmatic than expected in national security matters is what pisses them (the far right) off so much.

They so badly want to believe in their idiotic Muslim-manchurian conspiracies, and when it's proved wrong they have to concoct even wilder theories that have yet to be unveiled to keep up their worldview.

An unending orgy of stupid is what we get.

I heard today's speech. Obama kicked ass.

98 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:32:03pm

re: #76 Charles

The most fascinating thing to me is the consistency as long as they have polled it. No big uptick along with the Theocon/Bircher swing.

The godless component is really small. Never quite hit 1 in 5.

99 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:32:59pm

re: #82 Gus 802

They say war criminal like Sarah says death panel. Same lying syndrome.

100 avanti  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:33:00pm

Odd, the double agent who killed the CIA guys had provided info that killed other terrorists in drone strikes.

CIA.

103 stayfrosty  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:34:42pm

re: #91 Charles

Cool. So just ignore the fact that he's a creationist, because Charlie Crist isn't far enough to the right for you.

I no longer care that the GOP is plunging over a cliff. I'm just laughing at it now.

I'm not a creationist but honestly I could care less what Rubio believes concerning religion. (Now, I certainly wouldn't agree with him trying to get religion taught in schools.) For me, whether or not people have jobs is a far more pressing issue than whether man evolved from a monkey. And I think voters in Florida think the same way, and most find fiscally conservative policies the best way to grow their economy.

104 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:34:51pm

re: #100 avanti

Odd, the double agent who killed the CIA guys had provided info that killed other terrorists in drone strikes.

CIA.


He couldn't live with himself for what he did.

/AS IT WERE.

105 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:34:58pm

re: #102 JasonA

No, that's how humans were created in their present form this year.

106 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:35:08pm

re: #6 Gus 802

Yes come to the blue side, we have cookies!

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:35:40pm

re: #6 Gus 802

I'm considering registering as a Democrat this year.

We would love to have you. Lemonade? Whisky?

108 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:35:42pm

re: #87 avanti

My wet dream is for the Dems to get rid of her. That would be good for a lot of votes.

Actually, her leftist bent has lead to undisciplined leadership that passes legislation that cannot or only with great difficulty pass the Senate. As an opponent of leftist economic policies, I'm kind of glad someone as ineffective as she is the speaker. Say what you will about Gingrich, but he cut a lot of deals and reigned in the far right enough to get legislation passed. He was a real Speaker of the House worthy of the position.

109 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:35:47pm

re: #100 avanti

Odd, the double agent who killed the CIA guys had provided info that killed other terrorists in drone strikes.

CIA.

Tribes. Think of fighting mafia families. It's not a country.

110 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:35:50pm

re: #99 Rightwingconspirator

They say war criminal like Sarah says death panel. Same lying syndrome.

Exactly. I used to get livid when some people called McCain a war criminal, Bush too. Now Obama. They're confused. Presidents have to deal with the reality of the situation.

111 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:36:02pm

re: #106 jamesfirecat

Yes come to the blue side, we have cookies!

I prefer skirting the edges of the Darkside. ;)

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:36:08pm

re: #9 shiplord kirel

Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Barry Goldwater are spinning in their graves.

Teddy's probably kicking his way out. Not a patient man.

113 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:36:52pm

To be fair, those poll numbers aren't too flattering for us Dems, either...

114 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:36:58pm

re: #42 cliffster

One of the best movies ever. Once, a decade ago more or less, I was going through a pretty stout depression.. I fell asleep every night watching this movie. The weird take on finding meaning in life somehow helped me get through.

I also highly recommend Chuck Palahniuk's other books. He's a very gifted voice and has helped me through tough times as well.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:37:05pm

re: #16 shiplord kirel

Crist needs to fatten up, grow a goatee and wave a gun around at his next rally.

I'm having trouble visualizing this.

116 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:37:20pm

re: #106 jamesfirecat

Yes come to the blue side, we have cookies!

re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist

We would love to have you. Lemonade? Whisky?

Cookies, lemonade and whiskey? Now we're talking. Got any cake?

117 jgold  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:37:24pm

re: #91 Charles

Is that 60% number higher than in the past?? Republicans have always been religious conservatives that take the bible more literally than I would like but there are so many other pressing issues (taxes, the war on terror, health care etc..) that effect my daily life that I agree with the GOP. Should I bail on the party just because the majority believe in Adam and Eve?

118 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:37:50pm

re: #97 Gus 802

Never mind that.

ACORNBOWCHRISTMASORNAMENTBERTHAVISITBIRTHCERTIFICATE


/// It's all there......our childrenz are never going to forgive us for not stopping this

Revooooolution days are here again.

119 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:38:07pm

re: #22 jgold

Last time I checked because having a semi-secret prison where people are sent without being actually accused of any crime or given a trial makes the US looks like the kind of corrupt evil nation that needs to be overthrown....

120 Opal  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:38:10pm

re: #28 BryanS

"I still do not understand the obsessive hate for Lindsey Graham. He is a solid conservative, yet the fringe hates on him for daring to be bipartisan. The fringe even refrained from voting for McCain, choosing to stay home instead of voting because he wasn't conservative enough for them."

I think that there is more to it than Graham not denying climate change or being willing to work in a bipartisan manner or not being conservative enough.

[Link: www.charlestoncitypaper.com...]

It is difficult to be in a position where social conservatives dislike you for being what you are, but fiscal conservatives like you for the principled stand you take on fiscal issues. The far right will make life miserable for Graham, and if they have to, they'll get personal if it means that he will retire.

121 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:38:22pm

re: #100 avanti

Odd, the double agent who killed the CIA guys had provided info that killed other terrorists in drone strikes.

CIA.

I see two possibilities with that:

1. Al Qaeda understands that for disinformation to be effective, you have to mix some good information and they were willing to burn assets to do this.

2. Someone was using this scumbag to eliminate his rivals within Al Qaeda.

122 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:38:27pm

re: #116 Gus 802

Cookies, lemonade and whiskey? Now we're talking. Got any cake?

You'll have to submit to the cake panel first.

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:38:29pm

re: #20 laZardo

Go Green. Unless they run Cynthia McKinney again in 2012, then you can go Democrat.

The Greens really need to get off the national stage and continue building local leadership. They run good local people, quite often, but their national runs tend to have a sort of 'Let's put on a play in the barn!' quality about them. Or Cynthia McKinney.

124 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:38:44pm

re: #118 erraticsphinx

Never mind that.

ACORNBOWCHRISTMASORNAMENTBERTHAVISITBIRTHCERTIFICATEGATE

/// It's all there...our childrenz are never going to forgive us for not stopping this

Revooolution days are here again.

FTFY

125 Girth  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:38:48pm

re: #76 Charles

60% of Republicans say humans were created in their present form by God 10,000 years ago.

I try to get a little better every year, whether its improving my education, health, culture, whatever. And you mean to tell me I haven't changed in 10,000 yrs? And what's with this tailbone?

Fuck. I need a beer.

126 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:39:00pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout

I also highly recommend Chuck Palahniuk's other books. He's a very gifted voice and has helped me through tough times as well.

Cool. I saved the link and will look for some of those books later. When midnight is further away.

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:39:06pm

re: #28 BryanS

This is an omen of more bad news. If you are opposed to huge government involvement in the economy as most fiscal conservatives would be vis-a-vis health care legislation, then this kind of fracturing of the right will mean more leftist economic policies.

I still do not understand the obsessive hate for Lindsey Graham. He is a solid conservative, yet the fringe hates on him for daring to be bipartisan. The fringe even refrained from voting for McCain, choosing to stay home instead of voting because he wasn't conservative enough for them.

The far right can go screw themselves.

Mandy? That's your line...

128 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:39:39pm

re: #94 cliffster

I just pulled about a gallon of old greens and stuff out of the fridge and added it to my compost bin. Living smack in the middle of suburbia, I bet I have the only compost pile in 10 miles.

Yeah but your neighbor junked a perfectly good 1993 Ford Bronco and bought a Prius.

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:40:05pm

re: #44 Gus 802

"My fellow Americans..."

/Now she hates Obama.

It was going to happen.

130 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:40:25pm

re: #117 jgold

Is that 60% number higher than in the past?? Republicans have always been religious conservatives that take the bible more literally than I would like but there are so many other pressing issues (taxes, the war on terror, health care etc..) that effect my daily life that I agree with the GOP. Should I bail on the party just because the majority believe in Adam and Eve?

It's not believing in Adam and Eve. It's believing that the Earth is 10,000 years old. It's rejecting all modern science. You decide.

131 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:40:40pm

re: #117 jgold

I'm quite sure the GOP's embrace of biblical literalism will affect your daily life in many ways.
Just a hunch.

132 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:40:45pm

re: #128 Racer X

Yeah but your neighbor junked a perfectly good 1993 Ford Bronco and bought a Prius.

I'm not a pro-torture guy but whoever sent that Buick GNX into Cash for Clunkers needs to die a slow, horrible death.

133 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:40:55pm

re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist

We would love to have you. Lemonade? Whisky?

*Racer X peers in through the foggy window*

You got Whiskey?

134 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:41:13pm

re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist

Teddy's probably kicking his way out. Not a patient man.

This post made me think of Arsenic and Old Lace.

135 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:41:28pm

re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist

Have you read the book "Imperial Cruise" (I think) about Teddy sending Taft and his own daughter to Asia to negotiate treaties dividing it up? Senators were on this ship too. There was no Sec State at the time due to a death. Written by the Flyboys author. Amazing, all about how the American empire was to continue to grow west. The authors contention is Teddy inadvertently set up WW2 in Asia.

136 Summer Seale  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:41:40pm

Hi everybody!

Just taking a quick break while my fab red dress is being dry cleaned. I saw something about a poll just now about how most right-thinking Americans think we were created as we are less than 10,000 years ago - and what a relief!

You know, for years and years, I was so worried about how we might be corrupted by scientists from France with their morally corrupt stuff about there being no right or wrong. Well I'm just so proud...so happy...to be an American.

Now, I know what you're all thinking: it's not enough to be just an American, and you know what? You're right! You betcha you are! You gotta be a Republican like me. But even more, you have to be a real Conservative! Because we all know that the Republican party is in trouble, don't we? Well, I'm here to save it!

As most of you know, I'm just a regular hockey mom who can shoot a moose at a hundred yards in a blizzard for dinner - just like our pioneers did with bows and arrows and stuff. You know, that sorta experience qualifies me to be the next President, or talk show host; the kinda experience that you just can't get in a spineless elitist ivy league school. That kinda experience is something you have to earn with lots of hunting and managing a big household and, of course, years of worshiping the right God and seein' just...livin' in a small town like the rest of America does!

I'm just so tickled pink by that poll, ya know! It gives me hope that we can one day take back the science industry and really start...questioning everything again! Questions like: Did we really "evolve"? Isn't prayer really better medicine than modern drugs? And was Obama really born in the United States?

These are questions we should be asking. And with your help, and your votes, I might just be able to ask them for you! 60% of Republicans are behind me on this basic question and all I have to say is...Go Team! Yay!

Can we do it? Can we take back Science from the "scientists"?

You Betcha!

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:42:11pm

re: #66 austin_blue

Let's see...it's a post about the abdication of the sane GOP from the party in Florida and in the first 20 posts I see...

Cynthia McKinney.

Hmmm...missing the point...

She's a comfort to some...proof that the Democrats also have completely crazy people in our attic.

She's also fun to talk about. Never a dull moment. I want to see her run for the Greens, and Palin run for the Tea Party, and then I want them to debate each other. With Perez Hilton as the moderator.

138 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:43:13pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

She's a comfort to some...proof that the Democrats also have completely crazy people in our attic.

She's also fun to talk about. Never a dull moment. I want to see her run for the Greens, and Palin run for the Tea Party, and then I want them to debate each other. With Perez Hilton as the moderator.

Wow, the capsizing of so many failboats would be quite the sight!
*gets popcorn*

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:43:19pm

re: #76 Charles

60% of Republicans say humans were created in their present form by God 10,000 years ago.

OK, the way I see it, that's four thousand years of movement toward my position. Some compromise may be possible.

140 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:43:30pm

re: #136 Summer

You had me at "France."

141 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:43:33pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL!
Cynthia McKinney, the politician that keeps on giving!

142 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:43:51pm

re: #120 Opal

"I still do not understand the obsessive hate for Lindsey Graham. He is a solid conservative, yet the fringe hates on him for daring to be bipartisan. The fringe even refrained from voting for McCain, choosing to stay home instead of voting because he wasn't conservative enough for them."

I think that there is more to it than Graham not denying climate change or being willing to work in a bipartisan manner or not being conservative enough.

[Link: www.charlestoncitypaper.com...]

It is difficult to be in a position where social conservatives dislike you for being what you are, but fiscal conservatives like you for the principled stand you take on fiscal issues. The far right will make life miserable for Graham, and if they have to, they'll get personal if it means that he will retire.


Ahhh...so it's teh ghey rumor they are afear'd of .

I have a lot of respect for Graham, and wish him the best of luck fending off the fundies. I only wish he was my Senator so I could support him .

143 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:43:59pm

re: #136 Summer

Hi everybody!

Just taking a quick break while my fab red dress is being dry cleaned. I saw something about a poll just now about how most right-thinking Americans think we were created as we are less than 10,000 years ago - and what a relief!

You know, for years and years, I was so worried about how we might be corrupted by scientists from France with their morally corrupt stuff about there being no right or wrong. Well I'm just so proud...so happy...to be an American.

Now, I know what you're all thinking: it's not enough to be just an American, and you know what? You're right! You betcha you are! You gotta be a Republican like me. But even more, you have to be a real Conservative! Because we all know that the Republican party is in trouble, don't we? Well, I'm here to save it!

As most of you know, I'm just a regular hockey mom who can shoot a moose at a hundred yards in a blizzard for dinner - just like our pioneers did with bows and arrows and stuff. You know, that sorta experience qualifies me to be the next President, or talk show host; the kinda experience that you just can't get in a spineless elitist ivy league school. That kinda experience is something you have to earn with lots of hunting and managing a big household and, of course, years of worshiping the right God and seein' just...livin' in a small town like the rest of America does!

I'm just so tickled pink by that poll, ya know! It gives me hope that we can one day take back the science industry and really start...questioning everything again! Questions like: Did we really "evolve"? Isn't prayer really better medicine than modern drugs? And was Obama really born in the United States?

These are questions we should be asking. And with your help, and your votes, I might just be able to ask them for you! 60% of Republicans are behind me on this basic question and all I have to say is...Go Team! Yay!

Can we do it? Can we take back Science from the "scientists"?

You Betcha!

Sweet! Post over to The Onion ASAP. That's gold.

144 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:44:08pm

re: #136 Summer

LOL! Thank you again, Summer, for picking up Cato's mantle and giving Sarah Palin the backhand. I would ask you to repost a couple of your Palin impersonation for him once he gets done with his retreat.

145 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:44:22pm

re: #128 Racer X

Yeah but your neighbor junked a perfectly good 1993 Ford Bronco and bought a Prius.

That same neighbor is probably reporting me to our HOA as we speak for my perfectly good, although not so perfectly good-looking, pickup parked in my driveway.

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:44:31pm

re: #72 Rightwingconspirator

I always thought those screaming war criminal about GWB were a bit left wingnutty. At least overwrought. But Pres. Obama? Speechless.

The far left sold themselves a bill of goods about what Obama would be. Now they're disappointed and bitter, while the far right has decided he IS those things, and is freaking the hell out.

147 Girth  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:44:33pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

She's a comfort to some...proof that the Democrats also have completely crazy people in our attic.

She's also fun to talk about. Never a dull moment. I want to see her run for the Greens, and Palin run for the Tea Party, and then I want them to debate each other. With Perez Hilton as the moderator.

That's a wicked nasty pass out in your own vomit drinking game waiting to happen.

148 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:44:47pm

re: #136 Summer

"Taking back science from the scientists"

I think we've found your 2012 campaign slogan, Sarah.

149 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:45:12pm

re: #147 Girth

That's a wicked nasty pass out in your own vomit drinking game waiting to happen.

I'll start printing the bingo cards ASAP.

150 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:45:13pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

She's a comfort to some...proof that the Democrats also have completely crazy people in our attic.

She's also fun to talk about. Never a dull moment. I want to see her run for the Greens, and Palin run for the Tea Party, and then I want them to debate each other. With Perez Hilton as the moderator.

Right, but she's not a Dem anymore. She was always the odd man out.

151 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:46:37pm

First, they came for the plumbers....

152 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:46:50pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

She's a comfort to some...proof that the Democrats also have completely crazy people in our attic.

She's also fun to talk about. Never a dull moment. I want to see her run for the Greens, and Palin run for the Tea Party, and then I want them to debate each other. With Perez Hilton as the moderator.

I'm a guy, so girl on girl is genetically hard wired, but that debate is.....errrr...not attractive.

153 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:46:53pm

re: #116 Gus 802

Cookies, lemonade and whiskey? Now we're talking. Got any cake?

Gus, the cake is a lie. But I am authorized to offer you some, by Bertha Mae Lewis, ACORN CEO.

//

154 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:47:00pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

Mandy? That's your line...

Heh :) On that part Mandy and I agree. I'm just the non-theist version of fiscal conservative/social liberal.

155 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:47:04pm

re: #132 laZardo

I'm not a pro-torture guy but whoever sent that Buick GNX into Cash for Clunkers needs to die a slow, horrible death.

The Plan, The Scam, The Man

If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you get $4500 off for an apparent "savings" of $1000.


However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500.


So, rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.

But wait; it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For example, in LA every dealer was selling a Ford Focus with all the goodies, including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500 the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started.

When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before... (Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did).

So let's do the final tally here:

You traded in a car worth: $3500
You got a discount of: $4500
---------
Net so far +$1000
But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500
--------
Net so far: -$350
And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before
----------
Net -$3350

We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the 5 years of interest on the car loan, but let's just stop here..

So who actually made out on the deal? The feds collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. The manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. And the poor, stupid consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford.

Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe consumer that he was getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" when in fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege.

Think this was stupid for those who were crazy enough to swallow this wonderful scheme?

Just wait until we get health care with no additional costs over what most of us now pay for health insurance and the best medical care in the world. Think that scheme might be designed by the same people who came up with Cash for Clunkers?


Never trust the Government . . . . . . . . . . . . .

156 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:47:07pm

re: #151 erraticsphinx

First, they came for the plumbers...

And then there was the war...

...and then there were no more roses.

/alan moore hates everything.

157 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:47:22pm

Wow, so Randy Johnson is retiring? Talk about things you never thought would happen..

158 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:48:03pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

She's a comfort to some...proof that the Democrats also have completely crazy people in our attic.

She's also fun to talk about. Never a dull moment. I want to see her run for the Greens, and Palin run for the Tea Party, and then I want them to debate each other. With Perez Hilton as the moderator.

Since that debate would just be mud-slinging, I propose we just have them mud-wrestle instead.

159 Girth  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:48:36pm

re: #149 laZardo

I'll start printing the bingo cards ASAP.

*Looks around the room*

FUCK! Did she just say "You betcha" twice in the same sentence? Better throw me a couple more beers.

Oh God, Mckinney's getting rolling on 9/11 again...get the shots ready...

160 Lidane  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:49:08pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

She's a comfort to some...proof that the Democrats also have completely crazy people in our attic.

She's also fun to talk about. Never a dull moment. I want to see her run for the Greens, and Palin run for the Tea Party, and then I want them to debate each other. With Perez Hilton as the moderator.

The incoherence of that debate would be staggering. It would be a word salad of epic proportions.

If this ever happened, I'd want Perez Hilton to sit there, John Madden style and doodle all over the TV screen as Palin and McKinney talked. That alone would make it all worth it. Heh.

161 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:49:09pm

re: #156 laZardo

Including hair products.

162 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:49:20pm

re: #153 SanFranciscoZionist

Gus, the cake is a lie. But I am authorized to offer you some, by Bertha Mae Lewis, ACORN CEO.

//

Bertha Mae Lewis! ACORN! Don't you know what that means!? The vertical stabilizer is going to fail any minute now!

We're all going to die!!111!!1!1

Communism, socialism. My name is not Glenn Beck.

Care for some lobster?

/

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:49:21pm

re: #118 erraticsphinx

Never mind that.

ACORNBOWCHRISTMASORNAMENTBERTHAVISITBIRTHCERTIFICA TE


/// It's all there...our childrenz are never going to forgive us for not stopping this

Revooolution days are here again.

My father hadn't heard about the Mao ornament. I said:

"Hey, Dad, heard about all the right-wingers going berserk about the Chairman Mao Christmas tree ornament?"

He said "On the White House Christmas tree?"

I said "Yeah! You saw the articles?"

He nearly drops his coffee cup on a pile of "American Catholic" and wheezes "SFZ, I was being sarcastic. There's a picture of Mao on the White House Christmas tree?"

164 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:49:27pm

re: #149 laZardo

I'll start printing the bingo cards ASAP.

Like this one?

165 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:50:26pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

Like this one?

Takes care of Palin, now we need one for McKinney.

166 funky chicken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:50:41pm

The most disgusting thing I've seen in a long, long time:

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:51:06pm

re: #133 Racer X

*Racer X peers in through the foggy window*

You got Whiskey?

Step right up sir! Whisky? Sarsaparilla for the young'uns?

168 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:51:17pm

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

I was thinking about the current political model circumstance as a spatial relationship. Maybe I watch Numbers (smart crime show) too much. :) Anyway I got this image or a length of thin wire very long. But half red & half blue. Then I just thought of this wire as steel wool, all tangled red and blue. Just running around on similar never quite intersecting paths.

Then somebody asks me which color I prefer.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:51:44pm

re: #135 Rightwingconspirator

Have you read the book "Imperial Cruise" (I think) about Teddy sending Taft and his own daughter to Asia to negotiate treaties dividing it up? Senators were on this ship too. There was no Sec State at the time due to a death. Written by the Flyboys author. Amazing, all about how the American empire was to continue to grow west. The authors contention is Teddy inadvertently set up WW2 in Asia.

No, I haven't. I'll put it on the Long, Long List. Sounds interesting.

170 avanti  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:52:49pm

re: #155 Racer X


BS on two points, a the Buick was misidentified by a error in one digit on the VIN, no one traded in a 50-120K Buick for $4500 and there is no income tax on the rebate, just the sales tax.

171 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:53:05pm

re: #122 JasonA

Yes, now which will it be cake or DEATH?

172 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:53:14pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

My father hadn't heard about the Mao ornament. I said:

"Hey, Dad, heard about all the right-wingers going berserk about the Chairman Mao Christmas tree ornament?"

He said "On the White House Christmas tree?"

I said "Yeah! You saw the articles?"

He nearly drops his coffee cup on a pile of "American Catholic" and wheezes "SFZ, I was being sarcastic. There's a picture of Mao on the White House Christmas tree?"

That reminds me. I did a check on the Christmas trees ornaments outrage. No one even knew about it nor did they care. I even told some gay folks I know about Hedda Lettuce and they were like "who's Hedda Lettuce?"

So, it seems as thought the only people that care about that are Andrew Breibart, Michelle Malkin, and the other wingnut bloggers. America did not notice.

173 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:53:22pm

re: #155 Racer X

Holy smokes. That is some math. Figures.

174 Girth  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:53:36pm

re: #171 jamesfirecat

Yes, now which will it be cake or DEATH?

Cake please.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:54:39pm

re: #150 Gus 802

Right, but she's not a Dem anymore. She was always the odd man out.

True, but we did send her to Congress as a Democrat. Or rather, OTHER people did. Not me personally. Dear God, no.

Now she is running freely in her own world, doing whatever it is she does...we won't leave a light on for her.

176 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:54:52pm

re: #174 Girth

Cake please.

Ditto.

177 Lidane  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:55:08pm

re: #171 jamesfirecat

Yes, now which will it be cake or DEATH?

"Uh, death, please. No, cake! Cake! Cake, sorry. Sorry..."
"You said death first, uh-uh, death first!"
"Well, I meant cake!"
"Oh, all right. You're lucky I'm Church of England!”

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:55:29pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

Since that debate would just be mud-slinging, I propose we just have them mud-wrestle instead.

Jell-O wrestling!

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:55:54pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

Since that debate would just be mud-slinging, I propose we just have them mud-wrestle instead.

I was actually, though, thinking it would be more like parallel monologues. It would make a great musical.

180 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:56:04pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

True, but we did send her to Congress as a Democrat. Or rather, OTHER people did. Not me personally. Dear God, no.

Now she is running freely in her own world, doing whatever it is she does...we won't leave a light on for her.

I suppose. But think about this. James Inhofe. Jim DeMint. The Family. C-Street. Uganda.

I think the Dems don't need to worry empirically speaking.

181 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:56:05pm

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

Jell-O wrestling!

Chocolate jell-o.

182 Summer Seale  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:56:08pm

re: #143 austin_blue

Hehe you can forward it to the Onion if you like, although I'm pretty sure they probably are aware of this blog by now. =)

Sarah Palin: the comedy gift that just keeps on giving. =)

183 Girth  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:56:25pm

re: #177 Lidane

"Uh, death, please. No, cake! Cake! Cake, sorry. Sorry..."
"You said death first, uh-uh, death first!"
"Well, I meant cake!"
"Oh, all right. You're lucky I'm Church of England!”

One of my favorite stand-up performances.

184 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:56:49pm

....and then they came for the people who didn't like fisting.

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:57:13pm

re: #159 Girth

*Looks around the room*

FUCK! Did she just say "You betcha" twice in the same sentence? Better throw me a couple more beers.

Oh God, Mckinney's getting rolling on 9/11 again...get the shots ready...

My favorite McKinney rant is the one about the five thousand black men disappeared from prisons during Katrina by order of the Pentagon.

186 Girth  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:57:36pm

re: #177 Lidane

"Uh, death, please. No, cake! Cake! Cake, sorry. Sorry..."
"You said death first, uh-uh, death first!"
"Well, I meant cake!"
"Oh, all right. You're lucky I'm Church of England!”

Didn't think so many people would choose cake...

187 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:58:34pm

re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist

My favorite McKinney rant is the one about the five thousand black men disappeared from prisons during Katrina by order of the Pentagon.

Anything that McKinney says is an immediate; lolwtfbbq!?

188 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:58:51pm

re: #184 erraticsphinx

...and then they came for the people who didn't like fisting.

You know what I don't like? People talking about fisting. Fist away, my friend, but don't mention it to me or I'll introduce you to my lunch.

189 funky chicken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:59:26pm

I've written many times about how I had a front row seat when the fundamentalists took over the KS republican party. And with the rise of companies like "Beef" Products, Inc. happening under GOP administration/congressional control, I'm just going to have to become a proud democrat. Or I will if they can get that ammonia-laced contaminated garbage out of our food.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:59:42pm

re: #172 Gus 802

That reminds me. I did a check on the Christmas trees ornaments outrage. No one even knew about it nor did they care. I even told some gay folks I know about Hedda Lettuce and they were like "who's Hedda Lettuce?"

So, it seems as thought the only people that care about that are Andrew Breibart, Michelle Malkin, and the other wingnut bloggers. America did not notice.

Yeah, that was my dad's next question. How did they know who Hedda Lettuce was?

191 Lidane  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:59:44pm

re: #183 Girth

One of my favorite stand-up performances.

I love his bit about WW2:

Hehe.

192 Girth  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 9:59:53pm

re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist

My favorite McKinney rant is the one about the five thousand black men disappeared from prisons during Katrina by order of the Pentagon.

Pfft...five thousand...if she knew the real number...
//

193 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:00:09pm

Mr Bean briefly stands in for Zapatero on Spain's official EU presidency website

A hacker briefly hijacked Spain's official website for its presidency of the European Union, inserting a large smiling picture of Mr Bean, an official said on Monday.

194 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:01:02pm

re: #180 Gus 802

I suppose. But think about this. James Inhofe. Jim DeMint. The Family. C-Street. Uganda.

I think the Dems don't need to worry empirically speaking.

Oh, I am content enough with my party. I just think it's important to acknowledge your more embarassing moments.

195 funky chicken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:01:09pm

McKinney really isn't all that different from Maxine Waters, in my book anyway. I first became aware of Ms. Waters way back in the early nineties when I saw her hold a news conference (CSPAN) where she ranted for a while about how the CIA was making all of her constituents into crack addicts.

Not kidding.

196 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:01:11pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, that was my dad's next question. How did they know who Hedda Lettuce was?

Well. Do you want the honest answer? There's a reason why Andrew Breitbart knew.

197 austin_blue  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:01:20pm

Night all. I've got jet lag something fierce. This holiday in Europe thing has screwed my time clock to hell and gone. Is it Wednesday yet?

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:01:22pm

re: #181 Varek Raith

Chocolate jell-o.

I'm sure both sides will decide there's something racist about that.

199 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:01:35pm

Six trucks of explosives 'disappear' in Yemen

Fears of a terrorist strike against Western embassies in Yemen have grown amid claims a convoy of lorries laden with explosives had been smuggled into the country's capital city, Sana'a.

200 Bagua  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:01:54pm

Remix the Chaka


- Beenie Man
201 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:02:11pm

re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sure both sides will decide there's something racist about that.

Which would make it all the more fun to watch!
/:evilgrin:

202 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:02:26pm

re: #195 funky chicken

McKinney really isn't all that different from Maxine Waters, in my book anyway. I first became aware of Ms. Waters way back in the early nineties when I saw her hold a news conference (CSPAN) where she ranted for a while about how the CIA was making all of her constituents into crack addicts.

Not kidding.

Quite Concur. Those two are both around-the-bend bonkers.

203 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:02:47pm

re: #193 Racer X

Mr Bean briefly stands in for Zapatero on Spain's official EU presidency website

A hacker briefly hijacked Spain's official website for its presidency of the European Union, inserting a large smiling picture of Mr Bean, an official said on Monday.

Heh. Though to be fair, I can understand the confusion--they both make about as much sense.

204 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:03:11pm

re: #197 austin_blue

Night all. I've got jet lag something fierce. This holiday in Europe thing has screwed my time clock to hell and gone. Is it Wednesday yet?

Its three minutes past midnight in our time zone, Austin.

205 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:03:36pm

re: #193 Racer X

Mr Bean briefly stands in for Zapatero on Spain's official EU presidency website

A hacker briefly hijacked Spain's official website for its presidency of the European Union, inserting a large smiling picture of Mr Bean, an official said on Monday.

Forget Paul...now Steve is dead.

206 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:04:07pm

re: #199 Racer X

Six trucks of explosives 'disappear' in Yemen

Fears of a terrorist strike against Western embassies in Yemen have grown amid claims a convoy of lorries laden with explosives had been smuggled into the country's capital city, Sana'a.

Would explain the embassy closings.

207 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:04:32pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, that was my dad's next question. How did they know who Hedda Lettuce was?

You ever hear Andrew Breitbart talk? He wrote a book that's basically gossip right wing girl book, "Hollywood Interrupted." He was part of the Huffington Post start up team. He's really good friends with Matt Drudge.

208 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:04:38pm

re: #184 erraticsphinx

...and then they came for the people who didn't like fisting.

What I have been remembering throughout this fistgate episode, and I hope this is not too much TMI, is that a very dear friend of mine, when we first met as college kids, told me a great deal about her ex-girlfriend, and their sex life. This included fisting, complete with an explanation, since I at twenty had never heard of this before.

When we got to know each other even better, she told me that they had only kissed and cuddled, but she thought the other college lesbians would think she was a dork if she confessed this.

209 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:05:43pm

At the moment as things stand I'll admit as democrat my party isn't looking to be that strong in 2010, (though the fact that we're getting close to almost passing SOMETHING about healthcare could be a real game changer for better or worse) the fact of the mater is no mater how weak our position is we only have field be the least horrible person in the race. At the moment it seems like the GOP will have some trouble finding people who can win both primary and general elections....

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:05:48pm

re: #192 Girth

Pfft...five thousand...if she knew the real number...
//

More black men were disappeared from Lousiana's prisons than actually lived in the state of Louisiana....

//

211 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:07:10pm

re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist

What I have been remembering throughout this fistgate episode, and I hope this is not too much TMI, is that a very dear friend of mine, when we first met as college kids, told me a great deal about her ex-girlfriend, and their sex life. This included fisting, complete with an explanation, since I at twenty had never heard of this before.

When we got to know each other even better, she told me that they had only kissed and cuddled, but she thought the other college lesbians would think she was a dork if she confessed this.

Dear Penthouse,

You're not going to believe this, but back in college one of my roommates . . .

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:07:29pm

re: #199 Racer X

Six trucks of explosives 'disappear' in Yemen

Fears of a terrorist strike against Western embassies in Yemen have grown amid claims a convoy of lorries laden with explosives had been smuggled into the country's capital city, Sana'a.

That's not good. I would go so far as to say that that's bad.

I would also go so far as to say that I wish Yemen did not have an apostophe in their capital's name, since I never remember where it is, and waste time writing things like Sa'naa and Sa'ana.

213 funky chicken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:08:32pm

re: #209 jamesfirecat

At the moment as things stand I'll admit as democrat my party isn't looking to be that strong in 2010, (though the fact that we're getting close to almost passing SOMETHING about healthcare could be a real game changer for better or worse) the fact of the mater is no mater how weak our position is we only have field be the least horrible person in the race. At the moment it seems like the GOP will have some trouble finding people who can win both primary and general elections...

If the tea party/creationist nuts carry the primary, they should lose the general if the dem is any kind of candidate at all.

And the dems need to get out in front on some stuff that would be easy to fix, like food safety. Put "Beef Products, Inc" and its ilk out of business, and I bet they would carry 2010 easy.

Huge, divisive stuff like the full-monty public option? Not a good idea.

214 funky chicken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:09:09pm

Eh, I should go to bed too.

sweet dreams

215 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:10:21pm

Andrew Breitbart isn't "right wing" or "conservative." He's just pissed off because he's dorky putz that was rejected by the "beautiful people." He's a has been just like Zo and Steven Crowder. They didn't even make the C-list.

216 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:10:44pm

re: #103 stayfrosty

Creationism is anti-science. More than a simple religious belief, it has been demonstrated by creationists as a strong, driving force for them, and greatly influences their policy decisions.

If anti-science policy is allowed to flourish in this great country of ours, the U.S.A. will cease to be a major world power in many technological fields, and many more jobs will be lost as a result.

217 cliffster  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:11:17pm

Tuesday night claims another victim. I'll talk to you all down the line. Peace and purpose to all..

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:13:50pm

re: #211 Racer X

Dear Penthouse,

You're not going to believe this, but back in college one of my roommates . . .

What they say about girls' colleges is all true.

Interestingly, NONE of my radical lesbian friends from back in college are still lesbians. There's two couples who are still together, but one of them were like, grown-up grad students back then, and the other pair I only knew because one of them was a singer and we used to go to her concerts.

My favorite radical lesbian 'thing' from college, though, was that the radical lesbian next door to me (the aforementioned lady), had an arrangement going on with the conservative Christian, virgin-till-marriage woman upstairs, who was a good friend.

They both hosted prospective students to the college, and the deal was that if a 'prospie' looked at L's Dyke Power posters and goddess artwork and such and started to hyperventilate, she was to be traded immediately to C. If a prospie looked at C's All Bible Quotes All The Time and True Love Waits decor and started to hyperventilate, she was to be rushed over to L.

219 Bagua  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:15:59pm

Sounds kinky.

220 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:16:00pm

re: #84 stayfrosty

And Marc Rubio is also a fiscal conservative, while Crist and his supporters backed Obama's stimulus and a lot of other policies fiscal conservatives generally disagree with. Those are some of the main reasons Republicans are moving toward Rubio. Completely omitting that and mentioning only the fact that he's a "right wing creationist" to describe his political ideology doesn't seem to place equal importance on other issues.

He was a rather shitty speaker of the Florida House, why isn't he still in office? Why did he lose his seat? Why didn't the people who elected him keep him in office? Uhh...maybe because he sucked at getting anything done? (yes he did suck)

So because now he says he believes in all the shit you want to hear him say he believes in you'll vote for him over an actual proven leader like Crist? Rubio wanted a pie in the sky property tax system that couldn't get passed, Crist took the same idea and cut and changed it enough to get it passed, saving elderly people their homes and/or thousands a year in property taxes.

Crist has been a great Governor, he will be a great Senator, he does what it takes to get the best he can done for his people. I guess him not going down with his ship over idealogical differences and getting absolutely nothing done like most current Republicans is a bit of a shock, huh?

Gee, so far he seems to have tried to do what is best for his constituents rather than what some "tea party evangelical" says is theologically correct. I'm sorry he isn't "pure" enough to be your candidate, but he is definitely still my candidate.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:16:30pm

re: #219 Bagua

Sounds kinky.

Ah, just convenient.

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:17:06pm

OK, did I kill the thread? Honest, didn't mean to.

223 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:17:14pm

re: #191 Lidane

Well that's getting downloaded right onto my ipod!

224 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:17:47pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, did I kill the thread? Honest, didn't mean to.

Nope, your stories are just A.W.E.S.O.M.E!
:)

225 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:17:56pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

Lesbians never kill anything.

Unless they're lesbians vampire killers. That's different.

226 Bagua  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:18:01pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah, just convenient.

Nope, kinky. Please continue you have my attention.

227 Olsonist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:18:02pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

I had two gay friends from college who both turned straight so they could have kids. My guess is that they're still getting some on the side but they definitely wanted to do the family thing. Great guys by the way.

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:19:43pm

re: #227 Olsonist

I had two gay friends from college who both turned straight so they could have kids. My guess is that they're still getting some on the side but they definitely wanted to do the family thing. Great guys by the way.

Now that's interesting. Men are much less likely than women to be flexible about sexual identity. Hope their wives are OK with the 'on the side' situation.

229 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:19:57pm

re: #227 Olsonist

Who knows? They might be bisexual.

I think sexuality is a continuum and sexual orientation is just a modern construct.

230 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:21:28pm

re: #113 JasonA

To be fair, those poll numbers aren't too flattering for us Dems, either...

It speaks poorly of all our countrymen, regardless of political affiliation. It speaks worse for my party, but I guess we all have our own burdens to bear.

231 Bagua  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:21:47pm

re: #227 Olsonist

I had two gay friends from college...

Aha!

232 laZardo  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:22:19pm

re: #228 SanFranciscoZionist

Now that's interesting. Men are much less likely than women to be flexible about sexual identity. Hope their wives are OK with the 'on the side' situation.

It worked for certain Congressmen. Oh, wait.

233 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:23:20pm

re: #228 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder if that's actually biologically true, or is it just because of our current culture. I can picture a wife telling her husband that she used to be into women, and then I can picture that husband nearly dying of joy.

A man telling his wife he used to be into men, yeah, not so much. Interesting.

234 Gus  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:24:43pm
235 freetoken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:24:53pm

re: #76 Charles

60% of Republicans say humans were created in their present form by God 10,000 years ago.

I wonder, if the Tea Partier crowd was polled what would the % be?

236 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:25:39pm

Yet another drive by post by yours truly ...

The whacked out right wing and its undue influence over the GOP has created the vacuum that allowed Nancy Pelosi to seize the speakers gavel and allow a freshman Senator with no executive experience to be elected POTUS.

So what happens in the aftermath? They hit the accelerator.

And to anyone who is out there with the doubt in the back of his / her mind that says "well, all these tea party folks aren't racists, and all these different folks opposed to what is happening in DC aren't creationists, so this whole 'GOP over the cliff thing is overblown'" -

Negation in politics can create large groups of disparate interests who start seeing themselves as "united" and start thinking that things are "coming together". That is how the negative works - everyone in the group is united by what it is not. That was how the "we hate George Bush" club got organized and won the last election.

After the election, the club members got to learn who was running the club and - surprise surprise - you have massive defections from the club.

So who is running the resurgent conservatism club? The social conservatives are. Just follow the news of the expulsions and the RINO baiting. Just pay attention to who the organizers are. Just look at who are coming up with the rules regarding who will be allowed in the "tent".

And remember that these people have no scruples - they are the same kinds of people who could exploit Cindy Sheehan (I actually feel profoundly sorry for her at this point) right up to election day 2006 and then put her out to pasture when the important business of divvying up the spoils was at hand. You'll find the same brand of mindless ideologue / political whore behind the "real conservative" movement as you will behind the "committed progressive" movement. Not really movements - more like a gaggle of opportunistic political banshees.

237 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:25:56pm

re: #230 Slumbering Behemoth

It speaks poorly of all our countrymen, regardless of political affiliation. It speaks worse for my party, but I guess we all have our own burdens to bear.

What makes me sad is that in 1982 44% believed the Earth was less than 10,000 years old. In 2008, when this poll is from? 44%

26 years and the only real difference is that a higher percentage believe there was no divine hand involved at all. *just shakes his head*

238 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:26:17pm

re: #235 freetoken

I wonder, if the Tea Partier crowd was polled what would the % be?

99.9999... %

239 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:26:50pm

re: #235 freetoken

I wonder, if the Tea Partier crowd was polled what would the % be?

110% (Math is so elitist...)

240 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:27:46pm

re: #233 erraticsphinx

I wonder if that's actually biologically true, or is it just because of our current culture. I can picture a wife telling her husband that she used to be into women, and then I can picture that husband nearly dying of joy.

A man telling his wife he used to be into men, yeah, not so much. Interesting.

It is an interesting double standard, bring up a threesome with two guys on a construction site and all the guys will go "Ewwww!" Bring up a threesome with two women and everyone will be hanging on your every word.

Apparently the rules are much more flexible for women than for men...

241 Bagua  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:27:57pm

re: #229 erraticsphinx

I think sexuality is a continuum and sexual orientation is just a modern construct.

Yes, we must push back at the hegemonic repression of gender identity and create a new cultural identity as "it."

242 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:29:24pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, did I kill the thread? Honest, didn't mean to.

No, tell us more!

243 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:30:32pm

Racer, I have revised your following post to better reflect the true you.

re: #133 Racer X

*Racer X pees in through the foggy window*

Now you got Whiskey!

Okay, maybe that better reflects the true me.

244 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:31:04pm

re: #235 freetoken

I wonder, if the Tea Partier crowd was polled what would the % be?

OVER 9000!!??
/

245 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:31:58pm

re: #233 erraticsphinx

I wonder if that's actually biologically true, or is it just because of our current culture. I can picture a wife telling her husband that she used to be into women, and then I can picture that husband nearly dying of joy.

A man telling his wife he used to be into men, yeah, not so much. Interesting.

It's really, really hard to separate culture from biology when it comes to sexuality. I think you're absolutely right, it's much more acceptable for women to experiment with bisexuality.

I once had a long discussion about this with a gay man who started the conversation by saying that he had never known a man to be 'Gay Until Graduation', whereas it's fairly common for women. I pointed out that if you're a college-age girl, dating girls is much safer. You won't get pregnant, it's very hard for women to transmit serious STDS between them, you're at less risk of violence (my father the ex-cop quibbles with this), etc. etc.

For a man, none of those factors apply. You're at MORE risk, in all categories, (except getting your partner pregnant) plus, male homosexuality carries a much stronger social stigma. A man who comes out in college really has to have reason. Which isn't to say I didn't know guys who identified as bi in college, but it's much less simple than it is for women.

246 freetoken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:32:07pm

The movement is growing:

S.C. Republicans scold Graham again

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham has been rebuked again by another home-state South Carolina GOP group for his work with Democrats.

The Lexington County Republican Party censured Graham late Monday for, among other things, supporting the federal bailout for banks and automakers in 2009. Rich Bolen, chairman of the Lexington County GOP, said the group is also upset with Graham for working with Democrat John Kerry and independent Joe Lieberman on climate change and on a bipartisan immigration bill.

After a health care bill is passed, there is a decent chance that immigration will be on the docket.

If you think the TeaPartiers are ugly now, just wait until the immigration debate begins.

Some of the establishment is trying to fight back:

S.C. Republicans Rally to Graham's Defense

Arguing that "circular firing squads" tear down the party, South Carolina Republicans came to the defense of GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.) and pushed back against the Lexington County Republican Party's decision to formally censure him on Monday.

247 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:32:55pm

re: #241 Bagua

Yes, we must push back at the hegemonic repression of gender identity and create a new cultural identity as "it."

I heard a comical explanation of pronouns from a transgendered person--so I guess there's this idea we should use the pronoun zhe (a mix of he and she). Not really ever sure what pronoun I was to use, hence my asking prompted the above answer--I gave up and always referred to them by name.

248 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:33:15pm

re: #240 ausador

It is an interesting double standard, bring up a threesome with two guys on a construction site and all the guys will go "Ewww!" Bring up a threesome with two women and everyone will be hanging on your every word.

Apparently the rules are much more flexible for women than for men...

Crossed swords

Not saying another word.

249 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:34:11pm

re: #246 freetoken

The movement is growing:

S.C. Republicans scold Graham again

Yeah, read that today--why I mentioned him upthread. Graham's a good conservative. Wish he wasn't such a target from the nutjobs.

250 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:34:15pm

Boob thread, STAT!

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:34:24pm

re: #248 Racer X

Crossed swords

Not saying another word.

Barney Stinson refers to that as "a Devil's three-way".

252 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:34:39pm

re: #241 Bagua

No, at that point we will refer to each other as Sklee/Skler

253 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:35:27pm

re: #246 freetoken

If you think the TeaPartiers are ugly now, just wait until the immigration debate begins.

All part of the plan.

/

254 freetoken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:35:41pm

As the link about Graham indicated, this is the third county GOP committee to censure him.

But the state-wide leaders still support him.

There seems to be a rift between the proletariat the and patricians.

255 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:36:14pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

What they say about girls' colleges is all true.

Interestingly, NONE of my radical lesbian friends from back in college are still lesbians. There's two couples who are still together, but one of them were like, grown-up grad students back then, and the other pair I only knew because one of them was a singer and we used to go to her concerts.

My favorite radical lesbian 'thing' from college, though, was that the radical lesbian next door to me (the aforementioned lady), had an arrangement going on with the conservative Christian, virgin-till-marriage woman upstairs, who was a good friend.

They both hosted prospective students to the college, and the deal was that if a 'prospie' looked at L's Dyke Power posters and goddess artwork and such and started to hyperventilate, she was to be traded immediately to C. If a prospie looked at C's All Bible Quotes All The Time and True Love Waits decor and started to hyperventilate, she was to be rushed over to L.

Were spinning spiral discs and mind control involved at all, because if so that has the good makings of a story for emcsa. ;)

/

256 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:36:49pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

Barney Stinson refers to that as "a Devil's three-way".

omg you watch HIMYM, too? Jeez, just how cool are you???

(100% snark free!)

257 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:36:52pm

re: #254 freetoken

As the link about Graham indicated, this is the third county GOP committee to censure him.

But the state-wide leaders still support him.

There seems to be a rift between the proletariat the and patricians.

Eviscerate the proletariat!11!!
/Stewie

258 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:37:28pm

re: #254 freetoken

As the link about Graham indicated, this is the third county GOP committee to censure him.

But the state-wide leaders still support him.

There seems to be a rift between the proletariat the and patricians.

happened that way in the New York special election as well.

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:37:31pm

re: #248 Racer X

Crossed swords

Not saying another word.

I once showed up late at a camping event--pass was blocked by snow, took a while longer to get there. I had the bedding. Found my husband and his best friend, sleeping in separate tents, each wrapped in all the clothes they had, and slowly freezing to death. (Arizona desert, February, about two in the morning, it was COLD.)

The friend's GF, who I'd been driving with, and I, dumped blankets on them and went to sleep.

In the morning I asked the obvious question--why weren't you guys in bed TOGETHER, thereby pooling warmth and covers?

They looked at me as though I'd asked why they didn't each just kill the other and crawl into his body cavity. Shook their heads sorrowfully at the weirdness of women.

260 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:37:44pm

re: #256 JasonA

omg you watch HIMYM, too? Jeez, just how cool are you???

(100% snark free!)

Way too cool to be hangin' out with us!
///:)

261 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:37:44pm

re: #244 Varek Raith

OVER 9000!!??
/

OK, that is officially past the overused stage and back to being worth a small smile, at least at this monitor.

262 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:37:59pm

re: #254 freetoken

As the link about Graham indicated, this is the third county GOP committee to censure him.

But the state-wide leaders still support him.

There seems to be a rift between the proletariat and the patricians.

OMG! HE USED THAt BIG MARXIST WORD "PROLETARIAT"!!!! FREETOKEN IS A COMMIE!!1111

/Tea Partier

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:38:27pm

re: #256 JasonA

omg you watch HIMYM, too? Jeez, just how cool are you???

(100% snark free!)

My husband's favorite sit-com. We just finished season 4 (?) on Netflix.

264 freetoken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:38:52pm

re: #249 BryanS

I suspect that immigration will be incendiary that really drives the crazies against the remaining traditional GOP. Graham will be one of those caught in the crossfire.

265 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:40:05pm

re: #264 freetoken

I suspect that immigration will be incendiary that really drives the crazies against the remaining traditional GOP. Graham will be one of those caught in the crossfire.

Me too. They'll start in with the racism and drive me further away from them.

266 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:40:19pm

Somewhat offthread...but related.

President Obama has appointed a well qualified transgendered woman named Amanda Simpson to a position in the Commerce Department to deal with transfers of military technology overseas (She has degrees in business, engineering and physics, is a test pilot and instructor pilot and is a missile technology expert with Raytheon with 30 years in the aerospace field)

[Link: www.myfoxatlanta.com...]

The usual suspects on the religious right have gone apeshit.

"Is there going to be a transgender quota now in the Obama administration?" asked Peter LaBarbera, president of the anti-gay group Americans for Truth. "How far does this politics of gay and transgender activism go? Clearly this is an administration that is pandering to the gay lobby."

Matt Barber, associate dean at Jerry Fallwell's Liberty University, said the appointment "boggles the mind" and said that while African-Americans might deserve special treatment, transgender people don't.
"This isn't like appointing an African-American in order to try to provide diversity and right some kind of discriminatory wrong," he said. "This is about political correctness."

David Brody at the Christian Broadcasting Network also predicted a right-wing backlash and argued that the right thing to do would be to not hire transsexuals, for that reason: "The transgender thing doesn't play well with millions of conservative Evangelicals. ... I understand President Obama won't be after die hard conservative Evangelicals in 2012 but let's remember that moves like this don't play well with the million of conservative Independent voters and Catholics who will be up for grabs again in 2012 as well."


[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]


Nice. Apparantly, if I get a job, I am now a "Quota Queen" according to fundies.

And people wonder why I have disdain for the new Christianist GOP...

267 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:40:22pm

re: #264 freetoken

I suspect that immigration will be incendiary that really drives the crazies against the remaining traditional GOP. Graham will be one of those caught in the crossfire.

I suspect that will be when we see the last Latino Republican walk away

268 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:40:38pm

re: #245 SanFranciscoZionist


I'm in college and I can definitely agree, and I also think its changing to be fairer to both sexes, albeit slowly.

I just say when people ask me "I'm straight, except for the weekends."

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist


*cough* Brokeback Mountain *cough*

269 freetoken  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:40:45pm

re: #258 BryanS

happened that way in the New York special election as well.

Yup. Now we see clearly that is was not a one-off phenomenon, but has pervaded throughout the GOP.

Of course, in some states (e.g., OK) the nuts are already running the show, so we wouldn't expect a plebeian uprising there.

270 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:41:03pm

re: #264 freetoken

Yes and given the way the Tea Party Protesters have a real "tallent" for naming their movement maybe we'll see them arguing against all those "Damn Dirty Sanchez's" who dare cross over the border from Mexico...

271 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:43:48pm

re: #264 freetoken

I suspect that immigration will be incendiary that really drives the crazies against the remaining traditional GOP. Graham will be one of those caught in the crossfire.

Unfortunately, that's likely to be the case. I get annoyed at the fundies calling him Grahamnesty.

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:44:22pm

re: #266 celticdragon

Somewhat offthread...but related.

President Obama has appointed a well qualified transgendered woman named Amanda Simpson to a position in the Commerce Department to deal with transfers of military technology overseas (She has degrees in business, engineering and physics, is a test pilot and instructor pilot and is a missile technology expert with Raytheon with 30 years in the aerospace field)

[Link: www.myfoxatlanta.com...]

The usual suspects on the religious right have gone apeshit.


[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]


Nice. Apparantly, if I get a job, I am now a "Quota Queen" according to fundies.

And people wonder why I have disdain for the new Christianist GOP...

I am disturbed by their presumption that any ethnic or sexual minority could only have been hired to meet some imaginary quota. Makes me wonder how people who talk like that hire people.

(But apply! Do you have aero-space experience?)

273 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:44:54pm

re: #267 JasonA

I suspect that will be when we see the last Latino Republican walk away

And that will be a perfect case of 'having shot oneself in the foot'.

274 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:45:25pm

re: #266 celticdragon

Note to wingnut commenters: she's probably much more qualified than you.

275 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:45:31pm

re: #236 karmic_inquisitor

So what happens in the aftermath? They hit the accelerator.

But, but, but they promised me there would be fluffy pillows and cotton candy at the bottom of the cliff.
/

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:45:36pm

re: #268 erraticsphinx

I'm in college and I can definitely agree, and I also think its changing to be fairer to both sexes, albeit slowly.

I just say when people ask me "I'm straight, except for the weekends."

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

I've been out of college about fifteen years (OMG), so times have probably definitely changed.

*cough* Brokeback Mountain *cough*

277 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:45:37pm
278 Bagua  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:46:22pm

re: #245 SanFranciscoZionist


I pointed out that if you're a college-age girl, dating girls is much safer.

Not so fast. Before I accept you as an expert on this subject I require LINKS were I can examine the photographs for myself!

This is the fact checking blog.

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:47:05pm

re: #276 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry, that was meant to say that I have been out of college for fifteen years (OMG), so times have probably changed quite a bit.

280 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:47:24pm

Hmmm, let's ask the wingnuts if they have any of the following credentials;

(She has degrees in business, engineering and physics, is a test pilot and instructor pilot and is a missile technology expert with Raytheon with 30 years in the aerospace field)


*crickets*

281 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:48:13pm

re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist

And that will be a perfect case of 'having shot oneself in the foot'.

I'm actually picturing a movie of it in my mind. It's starring Cheech Marin. The end credits music from the Incredible Hulk plays as he just fades away...

282 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:48:24pm

re: #280 Varek Raith

Hmmm, let's ask the wingnuts if they have any of the following credentials;


*crickets*

But they probably have IQs of 167. Each.

/Or, you know, distributed roughly between the three of them.

283 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:48:39pm

re: #244 Varek Raith

OVER 9000!!??
/

CHANNER! :D :D

285 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:50:09pm

re: #284 Racer X

Yikes, I'm not even going to look.

286 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:50:44pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

I am disturbed by their presumption that any ethnic or sexual minority could only have been hired to meet some imaginary quota. Makes me wonder how people who talk like that hire people.

(But apply! Do you have aero-space experience?)

I have twelve years experience as an A&P and sheet metal mechanic on military and commercial passenger/airfreight aircraft.

I am not trying to compare my credentials to hers, which are superlative. I am noting that the quota hire thing is being used against a well qualified trans woman as a culture war wedge tactic, and that effects my own career chances as collateral effect.

287 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:50:45pm
288 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:51:04pm

re: #278 Bagua

Not so fast. Before I accept you as an expert on this subject I require LINKS were I can examine the photographs for myself!

This is the fact checking blog.

Now, now, Bagua. Spank the troll, not the monkey. ;)

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:51:34pm

re: #281 JasonA

I'm actually picturing a movie of it in my mind. It's starring Cheech Marin. The end credits music from the Incredible Hulk plays as he just fades away...

Oh my. I was actually going to suggest that Edward James Olmos should play the Last Latino Republican, but I like your version better.

Seriously, and I say this as a Democrat, the GOP could get a far healthier chunk of the Latino vote if they went for it con gusto. Bush demonstrated some of what would be needed, both personally and politically. It would be far smarter than playing games with crazy people.

290 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:52:02pm

re: #288 Dark_Falcon

Now, now, Bagua. Spank the troll, not the monkey. ;)

Y'all got some weird fetishes!
///:P

291 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:52:12pm

I've got to get to bed. Goodnight, all.

292 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:52:13pm

re: #264 freetoken

I suspect that immigration will be incendiary that really drives the crazies against the remaining traditional GOP. Graham will be one of those caught in the crossfire.

Immigration is going to be MUCH uglier than health care, IMHO.

293 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:52:17pm

re: #284 Racer X

"gay Thundercat"

That one line makes this brilliant.

294 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:52:22pm

I wonder, is a person simply born with a name like this, or do they have to earn it?

295 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:53:01pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

Yikes, I'm not even going to look.

Oh shit, c'mon man!

That was funny as hell!

296 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:53:02pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

Your college experience is so much more interesting than mine. o_o

My college experience: get up at dawn. Go to art classes. Go to art classes for 11 hours, come home on 2 hour bus ride. Frantically work on projects until 3 am. Get a couple hours of sleep. Repeat until you graduate with an art degree and get a job changing diapers or driving taxis :D

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:53:06pm

re: #286 celticdragon

I have twelve years experience as an A&P and sheet metal mechanic on military and commercial passenger/airfreight aircraft.

I am not trying to compare my credentials to hers, which are superlative. I am noting that the quota hire thing is being used against a well qualified trans woman as a culture war wedge tactic, and that effects my own career chances as collateral effect.

I was goofing about the credentials. Sorry. I absolutely agree re culture war, and am sorry to hear that it impacts you personally as well.

298 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:53:35pm

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

I've got to get to bed. Goodnight, all.


Good night. :)

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:53:37pm

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

I've got to get to bed. Goodnight, all.

Night, DF.

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:54:05pm

re: #292 Floral Giraffe

Immigration is going to be MUCH uglier than health care, IMHO.

Oh Lord. I don't know if I even want to see that go down.

301 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:54:39pm

re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth

I wonder, is a person simply born with a name like this, or do they have to earn it?

LOL!

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:55:14pm

re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth

I wonder, is a person simply born with a name like this, or do they have to earn it?

Hyman was a common enough name for a Jewish boy in that generation, that his parents probably didn't even think of it.

I suspect that in the Army he might have gone by "Hy".

303 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:55:36pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh Lord. I don't know if I even want to see that go down.

It will bring what's left of civility down in burning debris.

304 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:55:42pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

That's what he/she said.

305 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:55:44pm

re: #289 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh my. I was actually going to suggest that Edward James Olmos should play the Last Latino Republican, but I like your version better.

Seriously, and I say this as a Democrat, the GOP could get a far healthier chunk of the Latino vote if they went for it con gusto. Bush demonstrated some of what would be needed, both personally and politically. It would be far smarter than playing games with crazy people.

Yes. Not that I'm a fan of social conservatism, but that would appeal to a large enough portion of the Hispanic vote to make a difference to Republicans, but I guess racism is more important than their faith--or are they one in the same ?

306 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:55:52pm

re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth

I wonder, is a person simply born with a name like this, or do they have to earn it?

That's the worst name I've ever heard.


(Off topic, Baroness' Red Album is AMAZING)

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:56:26pm

re: #296 WindUpBird

Your college experience is so much more interesting than mine. o_o

My college experience: get up at dawn. Go to art classes. Go to art classes for 11 hours, come home on 2 hour bus ride. Frantically work on projects until 3 am. Get a couple hours of sleep. Repeat until you graduate with an art degree and get a job changing diapers or driving taxis :D

I lived on campus. It really does make a difference.

Especially when you get fun events like the Black Women's Collective Dance of 1994. That was the one the police were called to.

308 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:56:59pm

re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist

I lived on campus. It really does make a difference.

Especially when you get fun events like the Black Women's Collective Dance of 1994. That was the one the police were called to.

...Pics?...
/ducks :)

309 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:57:12pm

re: #304 erraticsphinx

That's what he/she said.

In bed?

310 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:57:26pm

re: #305 BryanS

Yes. Not that I'm a fan of social conservatism, but that would appeal to a large enough portion of the Hispanic vote to make a difference to Republicans, but I guess racism is more important than their faith--or are they one in the same ?

I think the strategic quandry they're in is getting the latino vote and keeping the protestant so-con megachurch vote is a zero-sum game. If you go for the latino vote, you ignite the rage of the nativist megachurch bloc.

311 Racer X  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:57:39pm
312 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:58:10pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, one of the most interesting things to me about politics, right now, is how many issues are truly being discussed. And, by the politicians addressed. The economy is screwed, but Washington is actually accomplishing concrete achievements. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the Democrats. But, they do seem to be productive!

313 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:58:13pm

re: #247 BryanS

I heard a comical explanation of pronouns from a transgendered person--so I guess there's this idea we should use the pronoun zhe (a mix of he and she). Not really ever sure what pronoun I was to use, hence my asking prompted the above answer--I gave up and always referred to them by name.

Yeah I'm kinda lost too, I know a guy who claims to be straight who is in a relationship with a man twenty years younger who wants to be a woman and dresses as one while taking hormones and working towards affording a sex change and also a woman who wants to make the change to a man yet is drop dead sexy as a woman and still dresses as absolutely sexy as she can. (Yes it is a "threesome" of some sort, I don't ask questions though so I have no idea how the details work.)

I first heard that I should be referring to the younger male as the German "Ze" or whatever spelling is correct from them. Apparently some languages have gender neutral pronouns even though English doesn't.

Personally my brain has not been quite able to wrap itself around "him, her, and ze" yet. I'm not sure it ever will, hmmm...does that make me a bigot or just culture shocked? (well?)

314 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:58:49pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

I was goofing about the credentials. Sorry. I absolutely agree re culture war, and am sorry to hear that it impacts you personally as well.


No problem. It's just dispiriting when you know that you must be 115% better than your competition to get hired in many interviews because of the daytime TV "tranny homewrecker whore" factor. Many of us work very hard to be well qualified profesisonals and try to play the game right to get to where Amanda is now...and it's back to homewrecker tranny slut with the fundies screaming out email alerts.

Nice.

315 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:59:11pm

re: #284 Racer X

Olivia is hawt.

/yes, I am turned on by attractive, dorky women

316 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:59:17pm

re: #262 Dark_Falcon

OMG! HE USED THAt BIG MARXIST WORD "PROLETARIAT"!!! FREETOKEN IS A COMMIE!!1111

/Tea Partier

What?
You had any doubts?

317 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:00:36pm

re: #303 Varek Raith

It will bring what's left of civility down in burning debris.

The cries of Socialism really drowned out any coherent message opposed to healthcare reform. (Granted, I didn't see many except for here.)

Think about that. Healthcare reform. Immigration Reform? The wingnuts are going to put The Onion out of business.

And with that I must put myself to rest. Nite all!

318 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:00:59pm

re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist

I lived on campus. It really does make a difference.

Especially when you get fun events like the Black Women's Collective Dance of 1994. That was the one the police were called to.

There was no on-campus housing at Cornish, my hgraduating class for the illustration department was 16 people. ;_; I did spend a brief time living on campus when I was going to PLU, but I was bored out of my skull, and sort of a shutin. I knew almost no geeks, it was not my crowd at all, the art dept was not competitive, so I transferred to art school. I sorta wonder how my life would have turned out had I gone to a college with an on campus culture I was totally absorbed in.

319 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:01:12pm

re: #310 WindUpBird

I think the strategic quandry they're in is getting the latino vote and keeping the protestant so-con megachurch vote is a zero-sum game. If you go for the latino vote, you ignite the rage of the nativist megachurch bloc.

Sad. When you find yourself in that position, it would seem long term strategy would dictate ditching the support that does long term damage to your cause.

320 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:02:48pm

re: #313 ausador

Yeah I'm kinda lost too, I know a guy who claims to be straight who is in a relationship with a man twenty years younger who wants to be a woman and dresses as one while taking hormones and working towards affording a sex change and also a woman who wants to make the change to a man yet is drop dead sexy as a woman and still dresses as absolutely sexy as she can. (Yes it is a "threesome" of some sort, I don't ask questions though so I have no idea how the details work.)

I first heard that I should be referring to the younger male as the German "Ze" or whatever spelling is correct from them. Apparently some languages have gender neutral pronouns even though English doesn't.

Personally my brain has not been quite able to wrap itself around "him, her, and ze" yet. I'm not sure it ever will, hmmm...does that make me a bigot or just culture shocked? (well?)

Nothing about this surprises me at all, the number of trios, poly relationships, and generally unconventional arrangements among my friends and acquaintances in fandom, it could fill a book.

And yes, some of them like their gender neutral pronouns. And roleplaying as robots. I've said too much already. :D

321 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:03:29pm

re: #313 ausador

Yeah I'm kinda lost too, I know a guy who claims to be straight who is in a relationship with a man twenty years younger who wants to be a woman and dresses as one while taking hormones and working towards affording a sex change and also a woman who wants to make the change to a man yet is drop dead sexy as a woman and still dresses as absolutely sexy as she can. (Yes it is a "threesome" of some sort, I don't ask questions though so I have no idea how the details work.)

I first heard that I should be referring to the younger male as the German "Ze" or whatever spelling is correct from them. Apparently some languages have gender neutral pronouns even though English doesn't.

Personally my brain has not been quite able to wrap itself around "him, her, and ze" yet. I'm not sure it ever will, hmmm...does that make me a bigot or just culture shocked? (well?)

The whole "Si, Hir etc" thing with new pronouns loses me completely. I am not interested in being ironic, edgy or in deconstructing gender...and I am not a fan of the "gender continuum" thing either.

I am a woman, and we will keep it at that, thank you very much.


Even if I still like guns, Warhammer 40K and cool new Russian fighter jets from Sukhoi. ;)

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:03:58pm

re: #308 Varek Raith

...Pics?...
/ducks :)

It all went horribly wrong. Basically, the BWC paid some dude to advertise the event on Oakland Radio. Basically, the calls appears to have gone out as "Sex-starved ladies at women's college seek you to get funky."

We got a whole lot of gangbangers. They did not like seeing women dancing together. They did not appreciate the lack of interest in recreational drugs for sale. Basically, it was the Granola Bi Chicks meet I Wanna Be Snoop Dogg. Things went badly. Shots were fired. Fights broke out. Bad stuff.

I, while this was going on, was peacefully drinking red wine in someone's dorm room, and watching some art movie in Spanish. Next day, I heard two versions. One, coming from a white woman, was that our privileged college girls had not been able to deal with young men from a less privileged, more earthy background, and had freaked out because they were pawns of the white, hegemonic, patriarchal, blah blah.

The other, coming from a black returning student in her late twenties, from NYC, was "I had never seen so many gangbangers in one place before in my entire life. I thought I was going to die. And then my sister was going to laugh at me for going all the way from Brooklyn to California to get my ass killed by a gangbanger on a private college campus."

323 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:04:44pm

re: #319 BryanS

Sad. When you find yourself in that position, it would seem long term strategy would dictate ditching the support that does long term damage to your cause.

Yeah, but these are all individual people who want to keep their jobs! If the Republicans were truly some top-down hierarchy, it would be easier for them to acknowledge this, but you have individual congress critters and powerbrokers all trying to stay afloat, keep their seats, gain some advantage... lots of careerists, lots of people who are probably damaging Their Cause but that doesn't matter much when you have your own back yard to worry about.

324 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:04:58pm

re: #314 celticdragon

No problem. It's just dispiriting when you know that you must be 115% better than your competition to get hired in many interviews because of the daytime TV "tranny homewrecker whore" factor. Many of us work very hard to be well qualified profesisonals and try to play the game right to get to where Amanda is now...and it's back to homewrecker tranny slut with the fundies screaming out email alerts.

Nice.

{Hug}

325 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:05:22pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

It all went horribly wrong. Basically, the BWC paid some dude to advertise the event on Oakland Radio. Basically, the calls appears to have gone out as "Sex-starved ladies at women's college seek you to get funky."

We got a whole lot of gangbangers. They did not like seeing women dancing together. They did not appreciate the lack of interest in recreational drugs for sale. Basically, it was the Granola Bi Chicks meet I Wanna Be Snoop Dogg. Things went badly. Shots were fired. Fights broke out. Bad stuff.

I, while this was going on, was peacefully drinking red wine in someone's dorm room, and watching some art movie in Spanish. Next day, I heard two versions. One, coming from a white woman, was that our privileged college girls had not been able to deal with young men from a less privileged, more earthy background, and had freaked out because they were pawns of the white, hegemonic, patriarchal, blah blah.

The other, coming from a black returning student in her late twenties, from NYC, was "I had never seen so many gangbangers in one place before in my entire life. I thought I was going to die. And then my sister was going to laugh at me for going all the way from Brooklyn to California to get my ass killed by a gangbanger on a private college campus."

Wow.

326 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:05:32pm

re: #321 celticdragon


Even if I still like guns, Warhammer 40K and cool new Russian fighter jets from Sukhoi. ;)

Just bought Dawn of War II. I don't do miniatures games, but I dig the 40K universe.

327 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:05:51pm

re: #324 SanFranciscoZionist

{Hug}


Thanks, hun :)

*hugs back*

328 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:06:17pm

re: #326 WindUpBird

Just bought Dawn of War II. I don't do miniatures games, but I dig the 40K universe.

Miniatures will bankrupt you! :/

329 BryanS  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:08:45pm

re: #313 ausador

Yeah I'm kinda lost too, I know a guy who claims to be straight who is in a relationship with a man twenty years younger who wants to be a woman and dresses as one while taking hormones and working towards affording a sex change and also a woman who wants to make the change to a man yet is drop dead sexy as a woman and still dresses as absolutely sexy as she can. (Yes it is a "threesome" of some sort, I don't ask questions though so I have no idea how the details work.)

I first heard that I should be referring to the younger male as the German "Ze" or whatever spelling is correct from them. Apparently some languages have gender neutral pronouns even though English doesn't.

Personally my brain has not been quite able to wrap itself around "him, her, and ze" yet. I'm not sure it ever will, hmmm...does that make me a bigot or just culture shocked? (well?)


Probably more culture shocked, but really the gender obsessions over language really get absurd sometimes. The obvious ones--like using policemen to refer to the police--build in cultural assumptions about gender and careers. But changing pronouns would be so difficult to achieve as to be nearly impossible. At least we don't have all gendered nouns and adjectives like the romance languages.

330 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:09:03pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

Okay, your college experience is now officially about fifty thousand times more interesting than mine. :D I was the ONLY person wearing anything weird ( a skirt and leather gauntlets, think fairy-meets-Clive Barker) on Halloween in my illustration classes.

331 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:09:09pm

All right. I have to go to bed. I have work tomorrow. Vacation is officially over.

332 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:10:01pm

re: #328 Varek Raith

Miniatures will bankrupt you! :/

The partner has half the garage filled with the damn things. I have to verrrry carrrefully edge past the big table of 40K terrain and cases of Tyranids to reach my drumkit.

333 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:10:04pm

re: #326 WindUpBird

Just bought Dawn of War II. I don't do miniatures games, but I dig the 40K universe.


The Emperor orders you, through His office of Imperial Outlays, to immediately invest in a unit of your choice to carry His holy word to a game store near you.


For the Emperor,

Danielle Vrek, Purser Level 12
Adestus Alpha 6

334 erraticsphinx  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:10:33pm

Night, everybody.

335 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:11:18pm

Goon night, all.
Stay scaly!

336 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:11:24pm

re: #328 Varek Raith

Miniatures will bankrupt you! :/


Heh!

yes, they will...but not as fast as Magic:The Blathering cards!

337 Lidane  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:11:26pm

re: #320 WindUpBird

Nothing about this surprises me at all, the number of trios, poly relationships, and generally unconventional arrangements among my friends and acquaintances in fandom, it could fill a book.

Heh. Sounds like your experiences with fandom are similar to mine.

I thought I had an active imagination and I'd considered myself fairly open minded sexually until I started meeting people in fandom who made me look like a blushing virgin in comparison. It's been an eye opener, that's for damned sure. Of course, whoever I end up marrying may well just reap the rewards of that, so it's not all bad. ;)

338 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:11:51pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't care if they're the Hell's Angels, the Black Hand, or the Crips. Gangbangers fuck everything up. A pox on all their houses. *spit*

339 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:11:54pm

re: #333 celticdragon

The Emperor orders you, through His office of Imperial Outlays, to immediately invest in a unit of your choice to carry His holy word to a game store near you.

For the Emperor,

Danielle Vrek, Purser Level 12
Adestus Alpha 6

There's no time! So busy!

(I'd totally play Chaos. I am drawn to mutant horrors with awesome style. What i have played, is the Warhammer Fantasy RPG. THAT is some nerdery right there!)

340 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:12:26pm

re: #336 celticdragon

Heh!

yes, they will...but not as fast as Magic:The Blathering cards!

Or D&D sourcebooks anymore. Sigh, why must I have expensive hobbies?
:)

341 blueraven  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:13:25pm

re: #22 jgold

With regard to closing Guantanamo the Obama admin says that it must be closed because it is a recruitment tool for AQ. Is there any evidence at all for this statement? It does not make any logical sense to me - these terrorist are freaking crazy people. How does having a prison in Cuba make Muslims want to join AQ?

Only if you believe Sec. of Defense Gates and General Patraeus.

[Link: www.military.com...]

342 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:13:28pm

re: #332 WindUpBird

The partner has half the garage filled with the damn things. I have to verrry carrrefully edge past the big table of 40K terrain and cases of Tyranids to reach my drumkit.

LMAO!

My wife (yes, I am still married to her even though I am trans) has fits about my game stuff all over the downstairs den. :D

343 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:13:35pm

re: #328 Varek Raith

Miniatures will bankrupt you! :/

Word!

344 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:13:36pm

re: #340 Varek Raith

Or D&D sourcebooks anymore. Sigh, why must I have expensive hobbies?
:)

Try German cars. Oh lordy the repair bills!

345 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:14:33pm

re: #338 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't care if they're the Hell's Angels, the Black Hand, or the Crips. Gangbangers fuck everything up. A pox on all their houses. *spit*

If the Black Hand took over Oakland...

346 Lidane  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:16:12pm

re: #340 Varek Raith

That's why I gave up on any sort of collectible card game or pen & paper RPG's in favor of MMO's. Much, much cheaper over the long haul, provided you don't get hopelessly addicted to whatever game you're playing.

347 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:16:36pm

Goodnight, all :)

348 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:16:43pm

re: #337 Lidane

Heh. Sounds like your experiences with fandom are similar to mine.

I thought I had an active imagination and I'd considered myself fairly open minded sexually until I started meeting people in fandom who made me look like a blushing virgin in comparison. It's been an eye opener, that's for damned sure. Of course, whoever I end up marrying may well just reap the rewards of that, so it's not all bad. ;)

Let's just say I know a lot of people who make animal costumes. For a living. :D

349 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:17:15pm

re: #346 Lidane

That's why I gave up on any sort of collectible card game or pen & paper RPG's in favor of MMO's. Much, much cheaper over the long haul, provided you don't get hopelessly addicted to whatever game you're playing.

Very true. Haven't bought any D&D books since 3.0 came out, and 4.0e just plain sucks.

350 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:17:20pm

re: #345 WindUpBird

If the Black Hand took over Oakland...

...same shit, different gang.

351 Lidane  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:18:47pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

Ah, you know a few furries, then. I don't know any of them, but do know plenty of folks in poly and other unconventional relationships, and quite a few who are involved in the whole BDSM scene. Makes for some interesting conversations online and over drinks, let me tell you. Hehe.

352 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:19:06pm

re: #349 Varek Raith

Very true. Haven't bought any D&D books since 3.0 came out, and 4.0e just plain sucks.

It's all about the Planescape for me.

Now if only someone will take on the herculean task of trying to GM Planescape....

353 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:22:54pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

Now that is a pretty funny tale, maybe you should send it in to Readers Digest for the 'Life in these United States' comedy section. You'd just have to cut out...err...uhh...

hmm...on second thought nevermind.

///

354 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:23:52pm

re: #351 Lidane

Ah, you know a few furries, then. I don't know any of them, but do know plenty of folks in poly and other unconventional relationships, and quite a few who are involved in the whole BDSM scene. Makes for some interesting conversations online and over drinks, let me tell you. Hehe.

I AM a few furries. It would be my home fandom, if there is such a thing. But I hover between several fandoms, obviously I'm a gamer nerd. 8-) Norwescon used to be a great con for drunken and awesome room parties, I think they've started to crack down and make everyone jump through liquor licence hoops. I sort of wish I could have seen the cons in the 80's when they truly got away with all kinds of lunatic shenanigans.

355 Cheechako  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 11:42:02pm

re: #303 Varek Raith

It will bring what's left of civility down in burning debris.


No, that's going to happen in the 2010 elections.

356 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 3:33:47am

re: #22 jgold

With regard to closing Guantanamo the Obama admin says that it must be closed because it is a recruitment tool for AQ. Is there any evidence at all for this statement? It does not make any logical sense to me - these terrorist are freaking crazy people. How does having a prison in Cuba make Muslims want to join AQ?

Because they aren't crazy, they're the result of the mind control possible when the word is given by an all powerful deity. They have been brainwashed by the evil of a theocracy given free reign.

357 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 3:44:50am

re: #36 jgold

What's the difference between a prison in the US and a prison in Cuba when you are recruiting a new member of the AQ suicide squad?? If Guantanamo is closed do you really think it will disuade someone from joining??

It is not so much a matter of dissuading them from joining as it is a matter of making it more difficult to convince them to join.

Guantanamo is now linked with torture and abuse, no matter how accurate that may be, which gives the manipulators the incentive of personal attack to add to their contortions. It is much less convincing when there is no evidence of abuse.

358 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 3:52:51am

re: #47 stayfrosty

I have hard time believing this had more to do with the theory of evolution than with fundamental fiscal policy differences between Crist and his supporters and fiscal conservatives. I've yet to see a poll amongst conservative voters say that creationism and not the economy is the number one issue.

I've yet to see a poll that says creationism sucks ass, yet we are surrounded by evidence that religious fundamentalism does more to damage a society than simply pounding a pulpit.

All decisions made by a fundamentalist are inevitably influenced by their fundamentalism. Rational thought is not part of the process.

359 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 3:58:10am

re: #236 karmic_inquisitor

Yet another drive by post by yours truly ...

The whacked out right wing and its undue influence over the GOP has created the vacuum that allowed Nancy Pelosi to seize the speakers gavel and allow a freshman Senator with no executive experience to be elected POTUS.

Sorry, but that isn't even close to what has been happening over the last 6-7 years. I hate to keep repeating myself but this is about spending, nothing more. Repubs lost seats the last 3 election cycles because they weren't acting like small govt republicans and instead spent money in a way that would have made Tom Foley blush. That's why they lost seats. The elections a couple months ago continued that trend and just yesterday we had multiple dems come out and say they'd just rather retire than try to run again. Frist is in deep trouble because of his stance on the stimulus, not his views on the origin of the planet, global warming, or abortion.

The next election cycle is shaping up to be a bloodbath for the dems and they know it.

360 all4one  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 6:24:39am

It's not quite like a scion of moderation has been ousted here. Greer was squarely in the far right camp most of the time; most recently he blew a lot of hot air about the Obama speech to schoolchildren being a blatant attempt to teach socialism to our children behind our backs. And he wasn't rightie enough?

361 Lidane  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 7:21:19am

re: #359 RogueOne

Repubs lost seats the last 3 election cycles because they weren't acting like small govt republicans and instead spent money in a way that would have made Tom Foley blush. That's why they lost seats.

Republicans haven't acted like small government anything in decades. I don't know why anyone keeps holding on to that idea at all.

Both Democrats and Republicans are big government parties. The only difference is what the spending priorities are and how much that spending should be regulated.

362 citicenx  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 7:41:12am

re: #186 Girth

Didn't think so many people would choose cake...

Do you have a flag...?

363 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 7:46:02am

re: #122 JasonA

the "death by chocolate cake" panel

364 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 6, 2010 9:31:23am

re: #361 Lidane

Republicans haven't acted like small government anything in decades. I don't know why anyone keeps holding on to that idea at all.

Both Democrats and Republicans are big government parties. The only difference is what the spending priorities are and how much that spending should be regulated.

I'll agree whole heartedly with that statement.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ...
Cheechako
4 hours ago
Views: 30 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
A Closer Look at the Eastman State Bar DecisionTaking a few minutes away from work things to read through the Eastman decision. As I'm sure many of you know, Eastman was my law school con law professor. I knew him pretty well because I was also running in ...
KGxvi
8 hours ago
Views: 85 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1