Teh stoopid, it burns.

I assume I should not try to discuss The Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler with these people?

They sure as hell don't want anyone to have any fun at all! What a ludicrous load of Bantha poo.

Dave: Open the pod bay doors, Hal.
Hal: Why don't you pray? Maybe your god will miracle them open.

Something Stupid This Way Comes

Obviously they prefer fantasy.

I suppose the jump from satanist fantasy to secular humanist scifi wasn't that far...

Tribbles are Satan's tools.

They definitely never read A Canticle for Leibowitz.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #6 kreyagg

Obviously they prefer fantasy.

Actually many of them love Tolkien, which I find Bizarre.

Stiflers of imagination.
My spit be upon you.

re: #10 Thanos

Well he was (kinda) Christian! That makes everything okay.

re: #10 Thanos

I think it's the whole "Men of the West" theme.

May the Schwartz be with you!

C.S. Lewis has science fiction - fiction that a few Christians I know like, actually:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

What's poor Orson Scott Card to do? The other bigots won't read his stories.

Once again, I will never understand this world of constant fear that these people live in.

Also, how pathetically weak is your faith in a deity have to be if a work of fiction is a threat to it? Their small, petty minds make no sense to me.

So who is David Cloud? Plaid shirt guy or out-of-control sideburns guy?

Nice picture of Asimov, though.

Weak faith needs to lean on a scapegoat.

You can have my Ringworld Trilogy when you pry it out of my cold dead hands.

re: #15 akarra

I'd say Out of the Silent Planet, altho' great, is hardly Science Fiction (even by our current loose standards). Its fantasy in space.

Good fantasy in space tho'!

re: #17 Lidane

Once again, I will never understand this world of constant fear that these people live in.

Also, how pathetically weak is your faith in a deity have to be if a work of fiction is a threat to it? Their small, petty minds make no sense to me.

Think that's bad? Just wait until you see their reaction when we really do make first contact.

I'm tempted to suggest "On Venus Have We Got A Rabbi", except that they would undoubtedly side with the people who say that the brown couch pillows with tentacles aren't really Jews.

Fine story, anyway. The backstory about what happened to the State of Israel is almost worth the price of admission.

re: #10 Thanos

Actually many of them love Tolkien, which I find Bizarre.

C.S. Lewis wrote some science fiction. I wonder what they make of That Hideous Strength.

Or for that matter, what about Madeleine L'Engle?

re: #23 Varek Raith

I hope I'm alive to see that. Not just because witnessing first contact would be awesome, but watching all those people have all their illusions shattered would be a sight to behold.

Isaac Asimov was a secular humanist, and also one of the first well known figures to speak out against Global Warming.

/see science fiction is the tool of the devil!

Harlan Ellison wrote a short story cycle called "Deathbird Stories" in which one tale was an allegorical creation tale, and Satan was the good guy representing science and knowledge, but he had just received several thousand years of bad press.

re: #24 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm tempted to suggest "On Venus Have We Got A Rabbi", except that they would undoubtedly side with the people who say that the brown couch pillows with tentacles aren't really Jews.

Fine story, anyway. The backstory about what happened to the State of Israel is almost worth the price of admission.

I suggest Philip Jose Farmer, "Jesus on Mars".
That ought to bust a blood vessel or two.

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

C.S. Lewis wrote some science fiction. I wonder what they make of That Hideous Strength.

Or for that matter, what about Madeleine L'Engle?

I want to make a tesseract. Or however you spell it.

re: #13 jaunte

I think it's the whole "Men of the West" theme.

I'm just laying in popcorn for the first time the Calormenes show up in the series they're doing of Lewis' Narnia books. Zee pundit fights, she will be amazing.

re: #27 Thanos

That was in Heinleins Job too, wasn't it?

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm just laying in popcorn for the first time the Calormenes show up in the series they're doing of Lewis' Narnia books. Zee pundit fights, she will be amazing.

Lol, that'll be fun.

I just don't grok the concept.

re: #31 windsagio

That was in Heinleins Job too, wasn't it?

Maybeso, that's one Heinlein book I haven't read.

re: #29 cliffster

I want to make a tesseract. Or however you spell it.

That looks right.

At the middle school I used to teach at, the sixth grade teacher had the kids read A Wrinkle In Time as their religion class book.

A Swiftly Tilting Planet, the third in that series, is spectacular, and far less popular than the first two.

re: #34 Thanos

Its really excellent. Its probably my favorite of his stuff.

These IDiots will not get my Futurama boxsets from me unless they pry them from my cold, dead hands. How do you argue with crazy people who believe they are influenced by God without losing a little faith in humanity?

Man it's cold out. I think I'll go watch a science fiction movie. Just don't tell "Dark Cloud."

I don't think I would have made it through Jr. High School without science fiction.

re: #36 windsagio

Its really excellent. Its probably my favorite of his stuff.

I'll pick it up on your recommendation, I've read most of his others.

I have limited Heinlein tolerance. Some of it is awesome, but the man had some ISSUES about women.

Am I going to die then. I watched two episodes of "Dollhouse" just now. One of my step-critters bought me season one of "Dollhouse" for Christmas, and we watch episode one and two tonight. The step-critter has already seen season one, but I think it was purchased to preempt me making them watch season six of LOST when it comes on starting Feb. 2nd.

Up to this point I've never liked anything Whedon has created. This "Dollhouse" was much more adult and clever than some of his other stuff.

What I didn't like... I wanted more backstory, right up front about "Echo." Right now, she is as much a blank slate as the rest of the "Dollhouse" Actives, and I don't care much about her as of yet. I wanted some back story hook NOW that would make me say "Goi Echo, find out who you are... what you are... what you did... what's happening..."

But not yet. Otherwise, kind of clever story idea.

re: #42 Walter L. Newton

Am I going to die then. I watched two episodes of "Dollhouse" just now. One of my step-critters bought me season one of "Dollhouse" for Christmas, and we watch episode one and two tonight. The step-critter has already seen season one, but I think it was purchased to preempt me making them watch season six of LOST when it comes on starting Feb. 2nd.

Up to this point I've never liked anything Whedon has created. This "Dollhouse" was much more adult and clever than some of his other stuff.

What I didn't like... I wanted more backstory, right up front about "Echo." Right now, she is as much a blank slate as the rest of the "Dollhouse" Actives, and I don't care much about her as of yet. I wanted some back story hook NOW that would make me say "Goi Echo, find out who you are... what you are... what you did... what's happening..."

But not yet. Otherwise, kind of clever story idea.

Whoa... I forgot it's Dollhouse night... be back later all.

Asimov was a biochemist. Sagan was an Astrophysicist. They were not "evolutionary scientists". A desperate attempt to link atheist scientists to evil Darwinism.

Now, what about Firefly? That has some interesting faith issues.

I'm moving to France.

re: #43 Thanos

Whoa... I forgot it's Dollhouse night... be back later all.

Wait a minute, the new episodes aren't till Friday, nvrmind

re: #39 Baier

I don't think I would have made it through Jr. High School without science fiction.

Me either. I recall sitting down with a good Sci Fi novel in the afternoon and reading into the early AM just because I could not put it down without finishing.

F*I*C*T*I*O*N

Writing about something that hasn't actually happened to illustrate what the author feels is a true point.

What do they make of the pivotal scene in HP7 happening in King's Cross Station, in a chapter actually titled that?

re: #37 political lunatic

They should love Futurama, it has the Devil and damnation as recurring themes!

*couldn't find good quality with the footage :(

re: #46 Gus 802

I'm moving to France.

Bring us back some pastries, 'kay?

Actually, if I was going to recommend a story from the Wandering Stars anthologies, I would say "Tauf Alef", by Phyllis Gottlieb. Amazing piece.

re: #52 EmmmieG

Bring us back some pastries, 'kay?

Wine and cheese?

re: #39 Baier

I don't think I would have made it through Jr. High School without science fiction.

You must be younger than I. I can clearly remember that as a kid I didn't casually tell people I liked to read science fiction. It was considered kind of weird, if not a type of superstition, by many.

re: #51 LeonidasOfSparta

TL;DR.

Speeding-reading before the flounces destructs.

re: #44 zephirus

Asimov was a biochemist. Sagan was an Astrophysicist. They were not "evolutionary scientists". A desperate attempt to link atheist scientists to evil Darwinism.

Yes, but they were both intellectual, pin headed, elitists./

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, what about Firefly? That has some interesting faith issues.

The Stargate series was rife with it.

re: #51 LeonidasOfSparta

It's co, not ca.

Two of my favorite authors have a strange knack for working both religion and fable into their stories, the first would be Gene Wolfe and the second Roger Zelazny.

re: #51 LeonidasOfSparta

You will not be missed.

Speaking of science fiction... we're being vistited by phantom zips...
[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]

re: #56 Varek Raith

I know its dirty pool, but I love nicks that tell you EXACTLY when someone registered >>

A sudden shortening of the space-time continuum!

re: #54 Gus 802

Wine and cheese?

Cheese maybe. But definitely pastries.

re: #57 EmmmieG

Speeding-reading before the flounces destructs.

I think if you can see it, it stays until you refresh the page, no matter what happens on Charles' end. Could be wrong, but I've never seen one just 'vanish'.

pfft. Go tell the Spartans.

PIMF... ' visited'.

re: #51 LeonidasOfSparta

"You can Flounce if you want to,
You can leave all of us behind.
'Cause my friends don't flounce,
and so if you flounce,
well, you're no friend of mine!"

re: #51 LeonidasOfSparta

Must have opened a worm hole to the stalker blog for a moment.

re: #62 Gus 802

You will not be missed.

Without asking for quotes, I'm curious what I missed.

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

That looks right.

At the middle school I used to teach at, the sixth grade teacher had the kids read A Wrinkle In Time as their religion class book.

A Swiftly Tilting Planet, the third in that series, is spectacular, and far less popular than the first two.

Those books had me spellbound when I was a kid. You may have just inspired me to go back and re-read them.

re: #51 LeonidasOfSparta

You misspelt "cajones."

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes.. at least here, it lives until you click a new post or refresh.

Was that our first SF Flounce?

re: #68 Thanos

pfft. Go tell the Spartans.

"Tourist, if you come to Sparta, tell them the last of the butterflies died fighting the Byzantines."

OK, NO ONE will get that. From an Ephraim Kishon book about travelling through Europe with his wife. He carves it on a tree, after being led across half of Rhodes by a tour guides who promises them a valley with a million butterflies.

Jews in Space!

re: #76 Thanos

Spartan Flounce.

Entirely too wordy

re: #76 Thanos

Was that our first SF Flounce?

Definitely not the first flounce related to Carl Sagan. He's a real target for these nutjobs.

re: #79 jaunte

Spartan Flounce.

Too flattering

re: #71 avanti

Must have opened a worm hole to the stalker blog for a moment.

I'll send a prode to the other end of the wormhole to investigate. The hole may lead to Borg space, though. Send message to the Enterprise-E and tell Picard to get here at maximum warp!

//

re: #72 Naso Tang

Without asking for quotes, I'm curious what I missed.

re: #74 Walter L. Newton

You misspelt "cajones."

I think that sums it all up.

Hadn't thought about Isaac Asimov in years. Forgotten how great the Foundation Series was. And it wasn't even dripping with aliens and stuff. In fact, I don't remember any aliens. I happen to find a lot of sci-fi really stupid, but just because it 'snot my bag, WTH, to each his own. I also remember how astrologists used to drive Asimov bonkers. I would have loved to seen him tear into GW deniers.

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

I'll send a prode to the other end of the wormhole to investigate. The hole may lead to Borg space, though. Send message to the Enterprise-E and tell Picard to get here at maximum warp!

//

Why? So he can critique the flounce? As a soliloquy, it's not much of an art form.

re: #74 Walter L. Newton
(Walter showing off another one of those strong British verb forms).
:)

re: #79 jaunte

Spartan Flounce.

"SPARTANS! TONIGHT WE FLOUNCE IN HELL!"

/300

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

I'll send a prode to the other end of the wormhole to investigate. The hole may lead to Borg space, though. Send message to the Enterprise-E and tell Picard to get here at maximum warp!

//

Heh. Set phasers on shun!

n00b question: any backstory behind how "this site used to be great, now it sucks" troll posts came to be referred to as "flounces"?

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

I'll send a probe to the other end of the wormhole to investigate. The hole may lead to Borg space, though. Send message to the Enterprise-E and tell Picard to get here at maximum warp!

//

PIMF

I think it was Asimov who lead me to giving up sci-fi. IIRC, in his Foundation books, the women STILL were the ones doing all the cooking and cleaning.

Those flouncers give new a meaning to hit-and-run. At least he kept it Rated G.

re: #90 publicityStunted

n00b question: any backstory behind how "this site used to be great, now it sucks" troll posts came to be referred to as "flounces"?

Encyclopedia Dramatica - Flounce.

re: #92 MandyManners

I think it was Asimov who lead me to giving up sci-fi. IIRC, in his Foundation books, the women STILL were the ones doing all the cooking and cleaning.

No kidding... how could you call that fiction? (*bonk*)

I'm going to sit down and read Heinlein's Starship Troopers for the unpteenth time just to spite those fuckers!

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that sums it all up.

Oh. Not even original.

re: #92 MandyManners

Product of the times tho', you have to accept a certain amount of that crap from the 60's and before, or you miss out on a LOT of good writing.

Tolkien women weren't exactly strong and outgoing hero's either...

With a username like that he is also doubtless one of those "molon labe!" (Μολὼν λαβέ )freaks.

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

"SPARTANS! TONIGHT WE FLOUNCE IN HELL!"

/300

Awesome sauce ;)

re: #95 Walter L. Newton

No kidding... how could you call that fiction? (*bonk*)

To me, it showed he lacked imagination.

re: #92 MandyManners

I didn't notice that. Now that you mention it, I can only think of one significant female character.

I guess they don't celebrate Life Day.

re: #98 windsagio

Product of the times tho', you have to accept a certain amount of that crap from the 60's and before, or you miss out on a LOT of good writing.

Tolkien women weren't exactly strong and outgoing hero's either...

Well, I wasn't ready to accept it.

re: #92 MandyManners

I think it was Asimov who lead me to giving up sci-fi. IIRC, in his Foundation books, the women STILL were the ones doing all the cooking and cleaning.

The 50s and 60s (and 70s, and well into the 80s) specfic greats were very much men of their time. That is, they really, really marginalized women with a condescending that edges on loathing I don't quite understand. There's nothing quite like it before or after in literature that I've found. I take it in the doses I can handle it.

re: #92 MandyManners

I think it was Asimov who lead me to giving up sci-fi. IIRC, in his Foundation books, the women STILL were the ones doing all the cooking and cleaning.

In L'Engle, Mom is cooking the beef stew...over a bunsen burner...in her lab.

I cannot express what Wrinkle in Time meant to me as a brainy, geeky 13 year-old.

re: #92 MandyManners

I think it was Asimov who lead me to giving up sci-fi. IIRC, in his Foundation books, the women STILL were the ones doing all the cooking and cleaning.

Maybe Asimov was a lousy cook.

*Ducks*

re: #85 stevemcg

Hadn't thought about Isaac Asimov in years. Forgotten how great the Foundation Series was. And it wasn't even dripping with aliens and stuff. In fact, I don't remember any aliens. I happen to find a lot of sci-fi really stupid, but just because it 'snot my bag, WTH, to each his own. I also remember how astrologists used to drive Asimov bonkers. I would have loved to seen him tear into GW deniers.

Isaac in 1988 on AGW:

re: #92 MandyManners

I think it was Asimov who lead me to giving up sci-fi. IIRC, in his Foundation books, the women STILL were the ones doing all the cooking and cleaning.

I have a funny line related to that, but I'm too scared to post it with Mandy in earshot.

I feel as if I just put a turd into the punch bowl.

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

Remind Picard that the positronic antigravity velocerator will decrease the singularity to a class 9 where it will be navigable.

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

Upding for great 80's tune reminder.

re: #90 publicityStunted
I don't think it's indigenous to LGF... internet speak for a huffy departure.

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

The 50s and 60s (and 70s, and well into the 80s) specfic greats were very much men of their time. That is, they really, really marginalized women with a condescending that edges on loathing I don't quite understand. There's nothing quite like it before or after in literature that I've found. I take it in the doses I can handle it.

Back-lash?

208 posts to go, for lucky number 8,000,000!
I wonder what the winner gets?
A toaster? A toster Oven, or, toasted?

re: #85 stevemcg

Hadn't thought about Isaac Asimov in years. Forgotten how great the Foundation Series was. And it wasn't even dripping with aliens and stuff. In fact, I don't remember any aliens. I happen to find a lot of sci-fi really stupid, but just because it 'snot my bag, WTH, to each his own. I also remember how astrologists used to drive Asimov bonkers. I would have loved to seen him tear into GW deniers.

There were no aliens in the Foundation universe that I recall. It was all for US. One would almost think it should have been a favorite of the creationists if only for that.

Have a good night, Lizards!

re: #104 MandyManners

fair enough. Poeple like what they like.

It is interesting tho', how things like that change over the years.

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

Robert Jordan's women are strong. Of course, they're pretty much all the same character with a different name, and slightly different physical description, but he sure likes uppity wimmin.

Good night fellow scaly ones :)

It's one degree (f) below zero... I'm going to snuggle up under the electric blanket... night all...

re: #115 Floral Giraffe

208 posts to go, for lucky number 8,000,000!
I wonder what the winner gets?
A toaster? A toster Oven, or, toasted?

If I stay up long enough to get 8mil, I'll be way too toasted to run a toaster oven. Probably not even a toaster.

re: #98 windsagio
Byproducts of all the brown acid.//

re: #111 zephirus

Remind Picard that the positronic antigravity velocerator will decrease the singularity to a class 9 where it will be navigable.

Whoa! Don't do that! You'll destabilize the warp core!
/Sheesh! Redshirts...!:)

re: #122 cliffster

But, you could stay up long enough to be toasted!
Even if I couldn't spell it correctly!
I guess an hour or so...

re: #90 publicityStunted

re: #113 tradewind

I always thought a 'flounce' was like saying "I never wanted to be here anyways", but the Urban Dictionary seems to agree with LGFs definition more than mine :)

re: #117 MandyManners
I can't read much S/F either.. must be a guy thing... but I really love watching a bunch of the newer stuff.

Carl Sagen is teh awesome. I'm going to read up on his theory that we carry ancestral "memory in our DNA. I think he is right.

re: #117 MandyManners

Good Night to you, Mandy!

The Taliban frowns upon science fiction.

And kites.

/

re: #98 windsagio

Product of the times tho', you have to accept a certain amount of that crap from the 60's and before, or you miss out on a LOT of good writing.

Tolkien women weren't exactly strong and outgoing hero's either...

It really is different, though. Tolkien is an earlier generation--MUCH less hostile toward women--and he's writing about an essentially medieval society.

re: #130 Gus 802

The Taliban frowns upon science fiction.

And kites.

/

I'm surprised they didn't try to ban sunshine.

re: #119 EmmmieG

He's modern too. The breakoff point (unsurprisingly) is about the early-mid '70s. Women were allowed to be powerful after that.

/well exaggerating some, but you get my drift.

re: #130 Gus 802

Why kites?
They fly? & it's a big old mystery?

re: #92 MandyManners

I think it was Asimov who lead me to giving up sci-fi. IIRC, in his Foundation books, the women STILL were the ones doing all the cooking and cleaning.

bah, you can do better than Asimov...

re: #134 Floral Giraffe

Why kites?
They fly? & it's a big old mystery?

They hate Jews and can't spell very well.

re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist

I never read Asimov as hostile to women, or most of the other pulp authors I've read (eg EE Smith). Heinlein certainly had issues with women tho, to that I agree wholeheartedly!

re: #136 Mad Al-Jaffee

No, you didn't!
;)

re: #135 Vambo

I dunno, Caves of Steel is probably the best SF novel ever written.

re: #102 stevemcg

I didn't notice that. Now that you mention it, I can only think of one significant female character.

They had a big role later though:
Bicentennial Man

re: #126 windsagio

re: #113 tradewind

I always thought a 'flounce' was like saying "I never wanted to be here anyways", but the Urban Dictionary seems to agree with LGFs definition more than mine :)

It's a perfect word for an (alleged) member of an online community who feels the need to post a "Goodbye Cruel Blog" dramatic farewell.

"flounce' is a great term because it mocks them. Normal individuals just gradually stop posting or visiting sites in which they've lost interest. Flouncers are far from normal individuals.

re: #110 MandyManners

I feel as if I just put a turd into the punch bowl.

Gawd, no.

I still wish I'd never picked up "The Last Battle" as an adult. What Lewis does to Susan is unforgiveable.

Ray Bradbury's women in the Martian Chronicles were pretty equal to the men, if I remember correctly.

re: #111 zephirus

Remind Picard that the positronic antigravity velocerator will decrease the singularity to a class 9 where it will be navigable.

That won't work in this case. We're dealing with a Wingularity in this case. Those can never by navigated, and any who try are torn apart by the incredible forces of Bad Craziness within.

Now that I think about it, that flounce could have been caused by the PZ Myers hat tip, too.

re: #114 MandyManners

Back-lash?

Maybe. It's very pronounced in all the writing of the day.

re: #141 iceweasel

It's a perfect word for an (alleged) member of an online community who feels the need to post a "Goodbye Cruel Blog" dramatic farewell.

"flounce' is a great term because it mocks them. Normal individuals just gradually stop posting or visiting sites in which they've lost interest. Flouncers are far from normal individuals.

Yes, Flouncers are drama queens.

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

Gawd, no.

I still wish I'd never picked up "The Last Battle" as an adult. What Lewis does to Susan is unforgiveable.

Battlefield Earth. :/

re: #145 Charles

Now that I think about it, that flounce could have been caused by the PZ Myers hat tip, too.

More flounce to the ounce with LGF...

re: #145 Charles

I'm away from my worksite; did you receive my message?

re: #134 Floral Giraffe

Why kites?
They fly? & it's a big old mystery?

Popular secular entertainment in Afghanistan. Something they can take away.

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

God, I'd forgotten about that. That whole book was awful...

But Susan, I felt like she got thrown under the bus (train) just to show that, yes, people could go to hell.

re: #148 Varek Raith

Battlefield Earth. :/

Please don't bring up that sonorous brick of a book that was made into an ever worse movie.

Must go, husband is turning on movie.

By the way, I did a lengthy interview with the Los Angeles Times today -- looks like there may be profiles on little ol' me coming out in the Times's of both coasts soon.

re: #134 Floral Giraffe

Why kites?
They fly? & it's a big old mystery?

re: #134 Floral Giraffe

Why kites?
They fly? & it's a big old mystery?

There was a rule against kite flying which I remember hearing about in 2002.

In Herat, the Taliban Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice banned pork, kites and ''Beatle-ly'' hair.; THE CONTRABAND -- In their war against modernity, men from the ministry confiscated dozens of television sets and dumped them in their offices...

also

Under the Taliban regime, Sharia law was interpreted to ban a wide variety of activities hitherto lawful in Afghanistan: employment, education and sports for women, movies, television, videos, music, dancing, hanging pictures in homes, clapping during sports events, kite flying, and beard trimming. One Taliban list of prohibitions included:

pork, pig, pig oil, anything made from human hair, satellite dishes, cinematography, and equipment that produces the joy of music, pool tables, chess, masks, alcohol, tapes, computers, VCRs, television, anything that propagates sex and is full of music, wine, lobster, nail polish, firecrackers, statues, sewing catalogs, pictures, Christmas cards.

re: #141 iceweasel
JMO... always felt like flounces were begging for some one, any poster, to say ' Nooo, don't leave!'
Predictably, it almost never happens.

re: #152 windsagio

God, I'd forgotten about that. That whole book was awful...

But Susan, I felt like she got thrown under the bus (train) just to show that, yes, people could go to hell.

And what exactly is her sin? Oh yes. She becomes an adult woman.

The hussy.

re: #150 jaunte

I'm away from my worksite; did you receive my message?

Yes! I absolutely love it. You're a genius. Check your email.

re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist

Must go, husband is turning on movie.

You can't leave now!

Bye SFZ. ;)

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

Ah. Yes. The Wingularity. This is bad. Very bad. Only Satan can help us when the coefficient of Bad Craziness exceeds .99.

re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist

yeah, the bitch puts aside childhood!!

Clearly unacceptable.

re: #155 Charles

By the way, I did a lengthy interview with the Los Angeles Times today -- looks like there may be profiles on little ol' me coming out in the Times's of both coasts soon.

That's way cool. When I come to LA in a few weeks, can I get your autograph? :)

re: #152 windsagio

God, I'd forgotten about that. That whole book was awful...

But Susan, I felt like she got thrown under the bus (train) just to show that, yes, people could go to hell.

I never read that book, but I was under the impression that she is not exactly sent to hell but simply did not experience the same rebirth as the others.

re: #134 Floral Giraffe

Why kites?
They fly? & it's a big old mystery?

Here's a great book on that very subject, it also was made into a movie:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

re: #155 Charles
Do they let you peek, or do you just have to trust 'em?

Well I have never liked sci-fi much as literature (life is short) but I will except Ray Bradbury.

And he has a story about a preacher who wants to go to Mars and teach Martians about God, IIRC.

Good night all.

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

well she 'wasn't saved'. (oops spoiler, but its in like the first 5 pages)

I remember thinking hte one time I read it (and I was like 12, it pissed me off even then) that she was denied the salvation the rest of them got because she lost her faith. I think it was a comment on 'worldliness'.

re: #143 prairiefire

Ray Bradbury's women in the Martian Chronicles were pretty equal to the men, if I remember correctly.

That's probably one reason why as a child I could get into reading Bradbury a lot more than I could Heinlein.
I'd loved Tolkien, but when I reread it as an adult I couldn't help also feeling irritated by the female roles. (and general lack therof)
I mean, yeah, ok, you have Eowyn at the end, but she does it all for looove. And because she's longing for death in battle. Way to take away the glory, JRR. (even though I don't blame him too much.)

She doesn't even get her man, either.

re: #132 EmmmieG

The taliban was against chess because it was "a game of chance."

Amazing.

good night again.

re: #170 Ojoe
..And yet they get out of their beds every morning.///

Consider ARTHUR CLARKE, author of many sci-fi works, including 2001: A Space Odyssey. Clarke, who was probably a homosexual, promoted evolutionary pantheism. He told a Sri Lankan newspaper, “I don’t believe in God or an afterlife” (“Life Beyond 2001: Exclusive Interview with Arthur C. Clarke,” The Island, Dec. 20, 2000). In the instructions he left for his funeral in March 2008 he said, “Absolutely no religious rites of any kind, relating to any religious faith, should be associated with my funeral.”

Chech this fantastic piece of 'journalism'...? Geesh...

re: #94 Varek Raith

re: #113 tradewind

re: #126 windsagio

re: #141 iceweasel

Thanks for the info :) Strangely enough, in all the years I've used the Internet, LGF is the first site where I've seen the term in regular use. As an aside:

Definitions of flounce on the Web:

* frill: a strip of pleated material used as a decoration or a trim
* walk emphatically
* the act of walking with exaggerated jerky motions

That does conjure up some interesting mental pictures to go with posts of the same name...

re: #172 Oh no...Sand People!

*Check

PIMF...

re: #108 Thanos

Fascinating. I had never heard him speak before. It looks like he made the whole statement off the top of his head. As an aside, writing fiction was not exactly his first career so maybe he was uncomfortable making viablr female characters.

re: #169 iceweasel

Eowyn was the one strong female in those books, and yeah she sold it all out for love and her proper place in the home.

Arwen was freakin' maddening.

Even Ursula LeGuin had serious issues with her presentation of women until the late 80s, when she had a change of heart.

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

Please don't bring up that sonorous brick of a book that was made into an ever worse movie.

Not a prob. ;) Though, it was the first Galactic Wide WMD humanity has created...
/:)

May I have another ibuprofen, please?

I think something stronger is called for.

re: #169 iceweasel

That's probably one reason why as a child I could get into reading Bradbury a lot more than I could Heinlein.
I'd loved Tolkien, but when I reread it as an adult I couldn't help also feeling irritated by the female roles. (and general lack therof)
I mean, yeah, ok, you have Eowyn at the end, but she does it all for looove. And because she's longing for death in battle. Way to take away the glory, JRR. (even though I don't blame him too much.)

She doesn't even get her man, either.

But she does get Faramir, who, as Steward of Gondor (though the office is once more subordinated to the King) would represent quite a catch.

Time to turn in. I hope everyone has a great day tomorrow. Night all.

Hook 'em!

re: #111 zephirus

Remind Picard that the positronic antigravity velocerator will decrease the singularity to a class 9 where it will be navigable.

Picard is occupied at the moment. Apparently, someone decided the good captain needed some entertainment on the bridge.

:)

Do works of Christian-themed science fiction count? You know Left Behind, the Christ Clone trilogy, The Space Trilogy, the Wrinkle in Time series, The Matrix if you want to stretch it...

re: #173 publicityStunted
I believe they call it a ' storm-off ' in the theatrical world ( as in irritated diva stomping off the stage). That would fit as well.

Is this guy trying to get people to not go see Avatar? Good luck with that.

re: #165 Thanos

Here's a great book on that very subject, it also was made into a movie:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

The Kite Runner (trailer)

re: #147 Thanos

It's the SWISH of them whisking their skirts, in a fury!

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

lol, reach for what you're allowed eh?

"I can't be a great warrior, but marrying one is almost as good! Plus he's handsome and rich!"

re: #168 windsagio

well she 'wasn't saved'. (oops spoiler, but its in like the first 5 pages)

I remember thinking hte one time I read it (and I was like 12, it pissed me off even then) that she was denied the salvation the rest of them got because she lost her faith. I think it was a comment on 'worldliness'.

It doesn't bother me as much. It's Lewis' way of pointing out how easy it is to fall off of the right path.

re: #157 tradewind

JMO... always felt like flounces were begging for some one, any poster, to say ' Nooo, don't leave!'
Predictably, it almost never happens.

Maybe that's why so many of them hate it here so much they have to keep saying goodbye and 'fuck you' over and over.

How can we miss you if you won't go away???/

There's no doubt in my mind that the previously 'inactive' posters who feel a burning need to impart their swan cuckoo song to us are sockpuppets.
(and here I refer to the cuckoo's practice of leaving its eggs in many other nests to hatch, albeit the 'crazy' connotation of cuckoo also fits.)
I propose referring to such flounces as cuckoos.

re: #169 iceweasel

That's probably one reason why as a child I could get into reading Bradbury a lot more than I could Heinlein.
I'd loved Tolkien, but when I reread it as an adult I couldn't help also feeling irritated by the female roles. (and general lack therof)
I mean, yeah, ok, you have Eowyn at the end, but she does it all for looove. And because she's longing for death in battle. Way to take away the glory, JRR. (even though I don't blame him too much.)

She doesn't even get her man, either.

LOTR is not about gurlz...even so some of the most powerful characters in that story are women...Galadrial is a direct decendent of the High Elves...she's the most powerful personage in all of Middle Earth

re: #187 windsagio

lol, reach for what you're allowed eh?

"I can't be a great warrior, but marrying one is almost as good! Plus he's handsome and rich!"

But she did kill the whatever-it-was. (Saw the movie, didn't read the book.)

At least she didn't have to fight in a metal brassiere. (Check the covers of your 70's era cheaper sci-fi paperbacks.)

re: #182 fenrisdesigns

Do works of Christian-themed science fiction count? You know Left Behind, the Christ Clone trilogy, The Space Trilogy, the Wrinkle in Time series, The Matrix if you want to stretch it...

As well as the late to be release "The Pure" trilogy...

/shameless plug

re: #155 Charles

Your declaration about your reasons for parting with the far right have certainly gotten a lot of attention and evidently resonated with a lot of conservatives. Now if only more sane religious voices would speak up against the religious loonies.

re: #187 windsagio

lol, reach for what you're allowed eh?

"I can't be a great warrior, but marrying one is almost as good! Plus he's handsome and rich!"

Well, as the sister to the King of Rohan and the slayer of the Lord of the Nazgul, she'd be just as much a catch. It also serves to bind Rohan and The Reunited Kingdom together.

re: #190 albusteve

LOTR is not about gurlz...even so some of the most powerful characters in that story are women...Galadrial is a direct decendent of the High Elves...she's the most powerful personage in all of Middle Earth

Quite right. Tolkien does get points for that.

re: #190 albusteve

but she can still do NOTHING. She's almost as bad as Arwen. All that power, and all she can do is sit at home giving unclear advice.

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

Heh, I admit I haven't looked at it for about 20 years. Maybe my judgement would be different now... Its just how cavalier he was about throwing her aside.

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

Oh yeah. Don't get me wrong, she's the female char I like in the books. And looking back at the sexism doesn't bug me that much (different era, etc). Its just... so blatant ;)

re: #155 Charles

Profiles and articles are good.
IF you're staying private on the safety issues.
I'm glad to see you getting some attention for your rational point of view!

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

Well, as the sister to the King of Rohan and the slayer of the Lord of the Nazgul, she'd be just as much a catch. It also serves to bind Rohan and The Reunited Kingdom together.

It really is a medieval political story.

Female characters in fiction are always difficult. Vonnegut and Chuck Palahniuk (fight club, etc) are great examples. The female characters are important and often drive the story but they are two dimensional. I think the problem is that male authors have difficulty presenting fully formed female characters and to do so would be presumptuous and probably not realistic or interesting. Female authors can do this but male readers can't tolerate the Oprah book of the month selections anyways.
Carl Sagan's lead character in Contact (played by Jodie Foster in the movie) is a rare example of a female character in sci-fi that actually works.

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

Well, as the sister to the King of Rohan and the slayer of the Lord of the Nazgul, she'd be just as much a catch. It also serves to bind Rohan and The Reunited Kingdom together.

she was the daughter of the king...ya boob

Oh my goodness, discussing LOTR could easily get to the 8 million mark. Night, Lizards.

re: #190 albusteve

LOTR is not about gurlz...even so some of the most powerful characters in that story are women...Galadrial is a direct decendent of the High Elves...she's the most powerful personage in all of Middle Earth

I'd actually say that Sauron is the most powerful. Other than that your point stands.

You don't think that Science Fiction is harmful?

Look what it did to this guy!

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Female characters in fiction are always difficult. Vonnegut and Chuck Palahniuk (fight club, etc) are great examples. The female characters are important and often drive the story but they are two dimensional. I think the problem is that male authors have difficulty presenting fully formed female characters and to do so would be presumptuous and probably not realistic or interesting. Female authors can do this but male readers can't tolerate the Oprah book of the month selections anyways.
Carl Sagan's lead character in Contact (played by Jodie Foster in the movie) is a rare example of a female character in sci-fi that actually works.

Fiction or science fiction? I assure you, Jane Austen got her women right on the mark.

re: #184 Mich-again

Is this guy trying to get people to not go see Avatar? Good luck with that.

One billion a the box office. Too late.

re: #203 That's Glenn Beck to you

What happened to the bottom of his beard?

re: #200 albusteve

she was the daughter of the king...ya boob

Oops. Thank you for the correction.

re: #196 windsagio

but she can still do NOTHING. She's almost as bad as Arwen. All that power, and all she can do is sit at home giving unclear advice.

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

Heh, I admit I haven't looked at it for about 20 years. Maybe my judgement would be different now... Its just how cavalier he was about throwing her aside.

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

Oh yeah. Don't get me wrong, she's the female char I like in the books. And looking back at the sexism doesn't bug me that much (different era, etc). Its just... so blatant ;)

huh?...Frodo would not have endured his journey without Galadrials help...did you ever read the books?

re: #203 That's Glenn Beck to you

You don't think that Science Fiction is harmful?

Look what it did to this guy!

"I can't keep my sideburns combed down anymore! Thanks, scifi!"

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

But she does get Faramir, who, as Steward of Gondor (though the office is once more subordinated to the King) would represent quite a catch.

Yes, but in the books at least, it seemed to me that there was definitely the implication that she was 'settling' for him. Tolkien gives her a happy enough ending, but as a female reading those books, it doesn't sit entirely well.
Mostly I was always pissed off that she didn't go into battle saying "to hell with this heartbreak stuff, there's a world to save and I'm going to do it."
She goes in expecting to be killed and because she doesn't care anymore and I hated that.

re: #199 Killgore Trout

"Aliens" by James Cameron? OK , BBT

re: #206 jaunte
Maybe she sat in something?

If it weren't for sci-fi, and reaaalllyyy strong weed, we wouldn't have gems like this;

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

I'd actually say that Sauron is the most powerful. Other than that your point stands.

well they kicked his ass no?...my point is Galadrial is a High Elf...Sauron was in fear of her...she had some bigtime mojo

re: #211 prairiefire

"Aliens" by James Cameron? OK , BBT

That movie ruled.

re: #208 albusteve

too many times probably, they were a big part of my childhood.

I'll admit I'm actually being unfair. The reason she was so worthless wasn't really because of gender, but rather because Tolkien had this whole theme about how the Elves time was over, and it was up to men to fix the problem that the elves had made. It still drives me crazy tho'.

re: #204 EmmmieG

Fiction or science fiction? I assure you, Jane Austen got her women right on the mark.

Fiction in general. I could never sit down and read a Jane Austen novel. I'd kill myself instead. Same goes for that douchebag who wrote Wuthering Heights. They might be good female characters but I'll be damned if a heterosexual male could endure them.

re: #198 jaunte

It really is a medieval political story.

True. The battles in the War of the Ring are of medieval size as well. 10,00 soldiers seems a vast number in LotR. By way of contrast, Gettysburg saw over 150,000 men engaged.

re: #199 Killgore Trout

I think there is a big difference in the way men view women and the way that women view men. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, springs to mind. I don't know why men can't visualize or write about women in the same way that they can men. Yet, women can write about men with the same depth that they write about women. Is it a cultural prejudice? It's totally weirod.

re: #217 Killgore Trout

Fiction in general. I could never sit down and read a Jane Austen novel. I'd kill myself instead. Same goes for that douchebag who wrote Wuthering Heights. They might be good female characters but I'll be damned if a heterosexual male could endure them.

I see you've been talking to my husband. And my brothers. And my father. And my sons. And my nephews...

re: #211 prairiefire

Ah, yes. Ripley from the Alien movies is another good example of a decent female character in sci-fi. Nice catch.

Anyone here enjoy Avatar?

/because if you did Jesus hates you.

hum -- seems almost like science fiction:

Deputies nabbed a suspect, apparently caught red-handed with a brush and paint can–applying a new color to disguise the stolen fish house. The small building, valued at $10,000, was reported stolen some time on Dec. 27 from the north side of Big Pine Lake, northeast of Perham.

Then again, this happened in Minnesota.

re: #222 EastSider

Nature good, technoloy bad. Yep, got it down pat.

re: #216 windsagio

too many times probably, they were a big part of my childhood.

I'll admit I'm actually being unfair. The reason she was so worthless wasn't really because of gender, but rather because Tolkien had this whole theme about how the Elves time was over, and it was up to men to fix the problem that the elves had made. It still drives me crazy tho'.

too bad you read too much into it...you might read the Sil and get some perspective...it's not a soap opera, it's a history

85 on the countdown clock...
TIC TIC TIC...

Toc!

re: #200 albusteve

No, she was the niece of one king and the sister of another who ends up marrying a Prince of Gondor.

re: #224 fenrisdesigns

*technology

re: #224 fenrisdesigns

Nature good, technoloy bad. Yep, got it down pat.

That's why I'm not going to see it. I don't need to spend money to be lectured by a liberal. When I want that, I'll have iceweasel lecture me for free. ;)

re: #217 Killgore Trout
OMG...
Heathcliff... pretty freaking awesome male character.

re: #221 Killgore Trout

Yeah. The other chick in Alien tho...

The commentary with her is funny, she hates her own character.

re: #227 Lidane

No, she was the niece of one king and the sister of another who ends up marrying a Prince of Gondor.

my bad, you are correct

re: #219 Floral Giraffe

I think there is a big difference in the way men view women and the way that women view men. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, springs to mind. I don't know why men can't visualize or write about women in the same way that they can men. Yet, women can write about men with the same depth that they write about women. Is it a cultural prejudice? It's totally weirod.

It's an odd phenomenon, I wish I had a decent explanation why. It has something to do with the way men see the world.

re: #227 Lidane

No, she was the niece of one king and the sister of another who ends up marrying a Prince of Gondor.

One of my bigger problems w/ LOTR was with the end battle in Return of the King, where the Dark Flying bad guy says something like

"You fool! No man can kill me!"

Before your aforementioned heroine stabs him in the face.

Even if you ignore the obvious male/female loophole, this dark Lord was so stupid as to think he was invincible because "no man can kill him" in a world inhabited by dwarves, elves, and walking trees? Legolas coulda sniped him from 2,000 yards.

re: #225 albusteve

I know all about it. Me not liking some storytelling and philosophical points in LOTR doesn't mean I'm a bad person, nor does it mean that I just don't get it :)

I'd argue that my problem is that I get it too well, and it interferes a little bit with my enjoyment of the books.

I don't know about sci-fi, although CJ Cherryh's women aren't wimps, but in fantasy:

Polgara from the David Eddings series will stare you into submission...

Nanny Ogg and Granny Weatherwax (Terry Pratchett) can use their headology on you...

And Thursday Next...don't mess with a chronoguard agent...

re: #236 EmmmieG

I was just going to post this
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

re: #219 Floral Giraffe

Yet, women can write about men with the same depth that they write about women. Is it a cultural prejudice? It's totally weird.

Perhaps it is a cultural prejudice that you think they can?

re: #236 EmmmieG

those are all after the paradigm shift re: sexism tho'. I'm still trying to think of some actually strong women from before the '70s.

re: #234 EastSider

One of my bigger problems w/ LOTR was with the end battle in Return of the King, where the Dark Flying bad guy says something like

"You fool! No man can kill me!"

Before your aforementioned heroine stabs him in the face.

Even if you ignore the obvious male/female loophole, this dark Lord was so stupid as to think he was invincible because "no man can kill him" in a world inhabited by dwarves, elves, and walking trees? Legolas coulda sniped him from 2,000 yards.

that's not what happened...nice try

re: #240 albusteve

that's not what happened...nice try

what'd I fudge up? Its been a while for the movie, and longer for the books.

Hey Night Lizards!

Well Science Fiction is that bad, I'm going to hell. Did I share with you Audio Science Fiction Magazines: StarShipSofa and EscapePod?

They are weekly FREE podcasts and I have been enjoying them immensely.

I find that Science Fiction is helping me adjust to this Brave New World we are in.

How are you-all?

Samuel Delaney has strong and very strikingly unique female characters in his books and stories.

re: #241 EastSider

I thought it was a pretty good summary. And the 'racial' loophole totally works too, because in the book it makes a point that a hafling can mess him up too.

re: #239 windsagio

Lady MacBeth?

/Kidding. How about Beatrice from Much Ado About Nothing?

re: #235 windsagio

I know all about it. Me not liking some storytelling and philosophical points in LOTR doesn't mean I'm a bad person, nor does it mean that I just don't get it :)

I'd argue that my problem is that I get it too well, and it interferes a little bit with my enjoyment of the books.

it's a story...you don't need to get out in front of the author...it's not an intellectual exercise

If any women want to understand how men see the world I suggest watching Unforgiven and pay close attention to the female characters. They're all there and they're very important to the story. They're sympathetic and powerful characters. They have a lot of influence yet lack depth. Maybe manhood is a form of Autism or Asperger's.

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Yes, I am going to do this!
(It's the ooga chaga, that made me!)
BAD 70's warning!

These people probably also hate Harry Potter. Not sure why, since Harry's act of sacrifice clearly resembles that of Christ's, but maybe it's the underlying message against fascism they have a problem with in those books.

re: #245 EmmmieG

oh man, I'd love to see some scifi Shakespeare. If done right it would be awesome!

Tricky project to say the least tho'.

re: #247 Killgore Trout

Not. Touching. This. One.

I've actually been going balls-crazy with astrophysics equations lately. A friend's furry scifi story inspired me, and now I'm stuck with some 30 pages of notes on hypothetical space-faring scenarios.

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

That's why I'm not going to see it. I don't need to spend money to be lectured by a liberal. When I want that, I'll have iceweasel lecture me for free. ;)

Hee! Believe it or not, quite a few on the left have problems with that movie.
Me, I don't go to the movies for political analysis (unless it's a documentary). Just entertain me, dammit!

re: #239 windsagio

those are all after the paradigm shift re: sexism tho'. I'm still trying to think of some actually strong women from before the '70s.

Lillian Gish in "The Night of the Hunter".

re: #241 EastSider

what'd I fudge up? Its been a while for the movie, and longer for the books.

read it again sometime

re: #249 Sharmuta

These people probably also hate Harry Potter. Not sure why, since Harry's act of sacrifice clearly resembles that of Christ's, but maybe it's the underlying message against fascism they have a problem with in those books.

I think it's much simpler than that. Magic.
:)

re: #254 ryannon

haven't read that one, googling!

re: #239 windsagio

Katherine Hepburn?

re: #239 windsagio

Dale Evans?
Katharine Hepburn?
Queen Mum?
Mrs. Roosevelt?

re: #243 Thanos

Samuel Delaney has strong and very strikingly unique female characters in his books and stories.

I am never going to get caught up on my "lizard reading list"!!!

re: #249 Sharmuta

re: #256 Varek Raith

He hit it on the head. It encourages kids to experiment with Sorcery!

re: #256 Varek Raith

I think it's much simpler than that. Magic.
:)

There's no Jesus, even though they celebrate Christmas and Easter- clearly they're pagans.