Here’s a thread to discuss President Obama’s latest statement on the Christmas Day attack, and the more general war against Al Qaeda and militant Islam.
UPDATE at 1/7/10 1:53:02 pm:
The review of security and intelligence systems is now posted at the White House website: Release of the Security Review Conducted After the Failed Christmas Terrorist Attack | The White House.
3 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:48:10pm |
"Ultimately, the buck stops with me ... it is my responsibility."
Narcissist!
/hot air
| 4 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:48:42pm |
I didn't hear anything that makes me feel better...
| 5 |
nightlight Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:49:26pm |
Does LGF still actually talk about what the president said, or do they just talk about what right wing blogs are saying?
| 6 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:50:07pm |
re: #5 nightlight
Does LGF still actually talk about what the president said, or do they just talk about what right wing blogs are saying?
Go ahead and talk -- nobody's stopping you.
| 7 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:50:26pm |
repost from last thread:
OMG!!!111 OBAMA JUST SAID "OPEN SOCIETY"!11 HE JUST ADMITTED HE'S IN SOROS' POCKET!!!1111111111111
/Glen Beck aka "Raving Freakazoid Nut Sandwich"
| 10 |
freetoken Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:51:28pm |
re: #5 nightlight
Personally, I'd rather listen to some music, but if you have something profound to say... then say it.
| 11 |
Obdicut Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:51:31pm |
re: #5 nightlight
Who is 'they'? Does, to paraphrase Mandy, Charles have a mouse in his pocket?
| 12 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:51:39pm |
Security review can be found here:
White House website
| 13 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:51:47pm |
re: #9 RogueOne
Troll? already?
Well, I'll go get the fryer ready. I can't grill today because of the snow, so I'll deep fry any trolls instead.
| 14 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:52:04pm |
re: #9 RogueOne
There must be a bot somewhere. They can get here incredibly quickly, it's like a flash mob.
| 15 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:52:11pm |
re: #8 freetoken
What would have made you feel "better"?
I am not sure... concrete steps maybe. I just didn't hear anything solid.
| 16 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:52:22pm |
"Strengthen Analytical Analysis"
almost a waste of time. Give 3 analysts the same info and you'll get 5 different analysis.
| 17 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:53:13pm |
Uh, I kinda liked the line of Citizenship vs. Partisanship.
| 18 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:53:50pm |
re: #5 nightlight
Does LGF still actually talk about what the president said, or do they just talk about what right wing blogs are saying?
Always with the questions...
95 nightlight11/12/2009 5:04:35 pm PSTAre you still allowed to be pro-life and post on this board, or will that get you 21 dings down?
| 19 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:54:05pm |
re: #17 Stanley Sea
Uh, I kinda liked the line of Citizenship vs. Partisanship.
/oh, I guess we are looking ahead to immigration...
| 20 |
freetoken Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:54:18pm |
re: #15 brookly red
Perhaps this was more of a doctrinal type of speech?
Sometimes, it is good to hear where we want to go, instead of the details of the navigation, no?
| 22 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:55:03pm |
re: #20 freetoken
Perhaps this was more of a doctrinal type of speech?
Sometimes, it is good to hear where we want to go, instead of the details of the navigation, no?
So enlighten me. I heard nothing.
| 23 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:55:24pm |
It's good that he's addressing it. I still don't get why, if he understands we are really in a war, he lets the self-identified soldiers we capture in mid-attempt lawyer up.
| 24 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:55:35pm |
Personally, I find it quite refreshing that we have a president who isn't afraid to admit that we've got some weak areas in our security system that still need work. And who isn't afraid to admit that the responsibility for mistakes ultimately lies with him.
| 25 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:55:38pm |
re: #18 wrenchwench
Always with the questions...
I think it's supposed to make me feel guilty or something.
| 26 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:56:37pm |
re: #14 tradewind
There must be a bot somewhere. They can get here incredibly quickly, it's like a
flashflounce mob.
improved.
| 27 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:56:39pm |
re: #24 darthstar
I think we heard that early and often from the last administration.
| 28 |
Gang of One Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:57:00pm |
re: #24 darthstar
Personally, I find it quite refreshing that we have a president who isn't afraid to admit that we've got some weak areas in our security system that still need work. And who isn't afraid to admit that the responsibility for mistakes ultimately lies with him.
Treu, but will this president identify the enemy as militant Islamofascism, or will he dance around it?
| 29 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:58:00pm |
I was struck by the fact that Obama took personal responsibility for the intelligence failures that led to the Christmas Day attack. I like that in a President.
| 30 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:58:07pm |
"Systematic Failure" is quite a bit different than "the system worked".
| 31 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:59:05pm |
re: #28 Gang of One
Treu, but will this president identify the enemy as militant Islamofascism, or will he dance around it?
it was more of a 2 step...
| 32 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:59:26pm |
re: #28 Gang of One
If only Janet Napolitano would leave... every time I think about ' man made disaster' it just boggles.
| 33 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:59:27pm |
re: #28 Gang of One
Treu, but will this president identify the enemy as militant Islamofascism, or will he dance around it?
He's identified the enemy as Al Qaeda. "Islamofascism" is a term meant to make people fear Muslims in general. As the president said last year, "We are not at war with Islam." Nor should we be.
| 34 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:00:03pm |
re: #29 Charles
I was struck by the fact that Obama took personal responsibility for the intelligence failures that led to the Christmas Day attack. I like that in a President.
It beats the hell out of "Mistakes were made."
| 35 |
Digital Display Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:00:23pm |
Obama gave a serious speech during serious times...
I found nothing wrong with it at all...very serious and down to brass tacks.
| 36 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:00:30pm |
re: #28 Gang of One
Treu, but will this president identify the enemy as militant Islamofascism, or will he dance around it?
I don't know if you watched the speech, but he certainly did. He didn't use the word "Islamofascism," though, so if that's your criteria, you'll probably be disappointed.
| 37 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:00:34pm |
| 38 |
Gang of One Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:01:13pm |
re: #33 darthstar
He's identified the enemy as Al Qaeda. "Islamofascism" is a term meant to make people fear Muslims in general. As the president said last year, "We are not at war with Islam." Nor should we be.
Al Qaeda in this instance, a group of Islamofascists. I, personally, do not fear Moslems. I do have a problem with the militant, death-to-the-infidel types, though.
| 40 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:01:19pm |
re: #19 brookly red
Don't get ahead of yourself. That's after health care and Cap n trade.//
| 41 |
Locker Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:01:28pm |
re: #28 Gang of One
Treu, but will this president identify the enemy as militant Islamofascism, or will he dance around it?
Who cares? This totally reminds me of Peter King saying Obama could make us safer by using the word "Terrorism" more often.
| 42 |
Gus Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:01:44pm |
re: #1 Killgore Trout
I'm sseeething!
/wingnut
Clearly he has not been listening to the recommendations from Jack Bauer at all!
/
| 44 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:02:19pm |
re: #35 HoosierHoops
There's this old saying... Actions speak louder than words.
Let's see what he does. You can pretty much bet what he will say.
No one ever accused him of not knowing how to give a speech.
| 45 |
Opal Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:02:47pm |
re: #27 tradewind
Yes..we did hear early and often. Except we didn't hear much about the shoe bomber either early or often. And...when we did hear about terrorism from the last administration, it felt like they were trying to scare us. We cannot give in to fear, because that is what terrorism is all about - scaring us. I'm glad Obama reminded us not to give in to fear. And...we didn't hear the previous president indicate that the buck stopped with him.
| 46 |
Locker Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:03:05pm |
re: #44 tradewind
There's this old saying... Actions speak louder than words.
Let's see what he does. You can pretty much bet what he will say.
No one ever accused him of not knowing how to give a speech.
Really? I see that accusation all the time. That he can't talk without a teleprompter. That he's too stiff, waited too long, didn't use the right words, etc etc.
| 47 |
Digital Display Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:03:10pm |
| 48 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:03:31pm |
re: #41 Locker
King meant that if Obama used the term more frequently, he'd get more comfortable with it and might take a closer look.///
Kind of a desensitization exercise.
Now there's not much of a choice.
| 49 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:03:32pm |
He said "lone recruits" at least twice which I found odd. When the pantie bomber was talking he said there were more coming, what makes us now believe this was a "lone" bomber?
| 50 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:03:47pm |
re: #38 Gang of One
Al Qaeda in this instance, a group of Islamofascists. I, personally, do not fear Moslems. I do have a problem with the militant, death-to-the-infidel types, though.
Al Qaeda is a criminal/terrorist organization that uses religion to manipulate people into killing themselves (and others) in the name of Islam...kind of like how Operation Rescue inspires weak-minded people to kill doctors in the name of Jesus here in the US.
| 51 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:04:02pm |
re: #44 tradewind
There's this old saying... Actions speak louder than words.
Let's see what he does. You can pretty much bet what he will say.
No one ever accused him of not knowing how to give a speech.
well true, they are rethinking the idea of releasing terrorists back to Yemen.
| 53 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:04:51pm |
A certain sufferer of ODS that I know says that someone must be fired/asked to resign for the intelligence failures or Obama will lose all credibility (which he never had in the eyes of the ODS sufferers, but whatever.)
| 54 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:05:01pm |
| 55 |
humpty dumpty was pushed Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:06:11pm |
The speech was good. The entire, current political class is a bunch of hacks but maybe brutal realities such a terrorism can bring them together on occasion. Good speech.
| 56 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:06:52pm |
re: #50 darthstar
Al Qaeda is a criminal/terrorist organization that uses religion to manipulate people into killing themselves (and others) in the name of Islam...kind of like how Operation Rescue inspires weak-minded people to kill doctors in the name of Jesus here in the US.
Bad analogy. Operation Rescue has serious problems but the great majority of its members obey the law and don't hurt others, whereas Al Qaeda's membership is entirely devoted to terrorism and tyranny.
Analogy FAIL.
| 57 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:07:12pm |
re: #55 humpty dumpty was pushed
The speech was good. The entire, current political class is a bunch of hacks but maybe brutal realities such a terrorism can bring them together on occasion. Good speech.
Run for office.
| 58 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:07:20pm |
re: #46 Locker
True, he's not a very nimble speaker when off the cuff/prompter. But then again, he rarely has to be. He's very eloquent, the anti-Dubya, in a prepared speech, and he hits notes that appeal on an emotional level to many different levels of the country.
I'm not saying that is a bad thing, by the way....it's a gift.
Often afterwards, though, analysts... lately more of the MSM, even, are left asking ' great speech... what exactly was it he said?'
| 59 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:07:27pm |
re: #53 wrenchwench
A certain sufferer of ODS that I know says that someone must be fired/asked to resign for the intelligence failures or Obama will lose all credibility (which he never had in the eyes of the ODS sufferers, but whatever.)
The Bush administration, of course, never fired or penalized anyone in the US intelligence system after 9/11.
| 60 |
Ojoe Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:07:35pm |
re: #29 Charles
Yes, and he has 3 years in which to improve, if you don't like him.
But it is amazing how made up some people's minds are.
| 62 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:08:06pm |
re: #55 humpty dumpty was pushed
The speech was good. The entire, current political class is a bunch of hacks but maybe brutal realities such a terrorism can bring them together on occasion. Good speech.
it would be nice but I don't see it happening...
| 63 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:08:40pm |
it's rather refreshing to hear a leader of anything say outloud "The Buck Stops Here."
of course, we can fully anticipate the Cheney and Fox News and various wingnuttia to proclaim the exact opposite.
| 64 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:08:55pm |
re: #59 Charles
The Bush administration, of course, never fired or penalized anyone in the US intelligence system after 9/11.
Except Richard Clarke. But that was before 9/11 and it was because he kept yapping about Al Qaeda when the "real" threat and focus had to be Iraq.
| 65 |
Gang of One Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:09:02pm |
re: #50 darthstar
Al Qaeda is a criminal/terrorist organization that uses religion to manipulate people into killing themselves (and others) in the name of Islam...kind of like how Operation Rescue inspires weak-minded people to kill doctors in the name of Jesus here in the US.
Uh, no, it's not. While Operation Rescue is despicable, they are nothing like Al Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, et. al.
| 66 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:09:06pm |
re: #38 Gang of One
Al Qaeda in this instance, a group of Islamofascists. I, personally, do not fear Moslems. I do have a problem with the militant, death-to-the-infidel types, though.
I cannot claim to be extremely informed in the Islam vs. Us debate, but isn't Moslems considered a slur against Muslims? If that is correct, it defines where you are basically coming from.
| 67 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:09:12pm |
re: #56 Dark_Falcon
Absolutely. Now maybe if he had compared 'em to Hamas.....////
| 68 |
Digital Display Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:09:23pm |
re: #44 tradewind
There's this old saying... Actions speak louder than words.
Let's see what he does. You can pretty much bet what he will say.
No one ever accused him of not knowing how to give a speech.
If I worked for Obama I'm pretty sure he wants success or else...If I want to stay on his staff.. I'd be kicking ass on my agency...
I wasn't getting a warm and fuzzy that Obama was speaking fluffy words..
I believe heads will roll if the President doesn't get results..
(His reelection depends on it)
| 69 |
Ojoe Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:10:00pm |
re: #60 Ojoe
3 more years, would be an even better way to put it.
| 70 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:10:24pm |
re: #56 Dark_Falcon
Bad analogy. Operation Rescue has serious problems but the great majority of its members obey the law and don't hurt others, whereas Al Qaeda's membership is entirely devoted to terrorism and tyranny.
Analogy FAIL.
OR refers to doctors who provide abortion services as 'murderers'--because of that one procedure...never mind the other medical services they provide. The guy who killed Dr. Tiller was one such weak-minded individual who thought he was doing god's work by walking into a church and shooting Dr. Tiller. It's the extremists in OR and their rhetoric that lead, in large part, to this assassination (Bill O'Reilly and his "Tiller the baby Killer" crusade also helped).
| 71 |
Locker Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:10:30pm |
re: #48 tradewind
King meant that if Obama used the term more frequently, he'd get more comfortable with it and might take a closer look.///
Kind of a desensitization exercise.
Now there's not much of a choice.
You know what he meant (as opposed to what he said) how? I'm sure it's possible that you know him personally but if you don't, how can you say that which such confidence?
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
It seems to me that the comment is directly related to his other comment:
"If this is a war on terrorism, then this person should not be treated as an ordinary criminal," King said on "GMA."
It sure seems like the comment about using the word "terrorism" more is a direct lead in to his comment above. I see nothing to support your interpretation.
| 72 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:10:40pm |
re: #68 HoosierHoops
If I worked for Obama I'm pretty sure he wants success or else...If I want to stay on his staff.. I'd be kicking ass on my agency...
I wasn't getting a warm and fuzzy that Obama was speaking fluffy words..
I believe heads will roll if the President doesn't get results..
(His reelection depends on it)
you can't have it both ways.
| 73 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:10:51pm |
re: #68 HoosierHoops
If I worked for Obama I'm pretty sure he wants success or else...If I want to stay on his staff.. I'd be kicking ass on my agency...
I wasn't getting a warm and fuzzy that Obama was speaking fluffy words..
I believe heads will roll if the President doesn't get results..
(His reelection depends on it)
And if I worked for Obama I'd be pretty pissed if he canned somebody just for optics because people are asking for a scalp.
| 74 |
Digital Display Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:11:22pm |
re: #59 Charles
The Bush administration, of course, never fired or penalized anyone in the US intelligence system after 9/11.
Because it was the Clinton's Administration's fault.
/
| 75 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:11:26pm |
re: #63 kellygrrrl
It's great.
How does it deter the terrorists?
Somehow, I don't think Al Q' leaders are saying to themselves ' ruh-roh,we have now angered the Big Boss'.
| 76 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:12:07pm |
It's interesting to see the growing conservative resentment towards airport security.....
Time to abolish TSA as we know it
There was another article making the rounds yesterday about some John Galt type fantasy that the private sector should handle airport security. Republicans are holding up the TSA nominee of some anti-union paranoia. This doesn't look good to voters.
| 77 |
Gang of One Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:12:14pm |
re: #66 Stanley Sea
I cannot claim to be extremely informed in the Islam vs. Us debate, but isn't Moslems considered a slur against Muslims? If that is correct, it defines where you are basically coming from.
Huh? Are the followers of Islam not called Moslem? As I hear my high school students say as much. Please, enlighten me.
| 78 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:12:25pm |
re: #71 Locker
Guess you didn't see my three ///'s, either......
:)
| 79 |
Lidane Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:12:50pm |
| 80 |
The Sanity Inspector Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:12:57pm |
OT: Blogpost headline of the day: "There's a perp for that."
| 81 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:13:01pm |
re: #70 darthstar
OR refers to doctors who provide abortion services as 'murderers'--because of that one procedure...never mind the other medical services they provide. The guy who killed Dr. Tiller was one such weak-minded individual who thought he was doing god's work by walking into a church and shooting Dr. Tiller. It's the extremists in OR and their rhetoric that lead, in large part, to this assassination (Bill O'Reilly and his "Tiller the baby Killer" crusade also helped).
I know that, am questioning OR's problems. I'm just saying that the wrongs they commit still do not put them in Al Qaeda's league.
| 82 |
Locker Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:13:03pm |
re: #78 tradewind
Guess you didn't see my three ///'s, either...
:)
Yea if they aren't at the end I normally don't notice. Sorry.
| 83 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:13:09pm |
re: #28 Gang of One
Treu, but will this president identify the enemy as militant Islamofascism, or will he dance around it?
When has he denied who the enemy is?
| 84 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:13:13pm |
re: #73 recusancy
And the two ways he's trying to have it are? Sorry, I'm just confused, maybe you and I aren't reading his post the same way...
| 85 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:13:32pm |
re: #29 Charles
I was struck by the fact that Obama took personal responsibility for the intelligence failures that led to the Christmas Day attack. I like that in a President.
I'm glad the buck is stopping somewhere in the neighborhood of the White House these days.
| 86 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:13:33pm |
re: #65 Gang of One
Uh, no, it's not. While Operation Rescue is despicable, they are nothing like Al Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, et. al.
We agree that OR is despicable. That's a good start. I wasn't comparing them as an organization to Al Qaeda, just the actions of some of their followers.
| 87 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:13:43pm |
re: #75 tradewind
It's great.
How does it deter the terrorists?
Somehow, I don't think Al Q' leaders are saying to themselves ' ruh-roh,we have now angered the Big Boss'.
They are laughing at us. all they need is 1 mook w/a bag of PETN and we are fighting amongst our selfs. Time to name the enemy.
| 88 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:13:56pm |
re: #77 Gang of One
I may be completely off base. I thought it was Muslim. Not Moslem. I'll check.
| 89 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:14:43pm |
| 90 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:15:00pm |
re: #65 Gang of One
Uh, no, it's not. While Operation Rescue is despicable, they are nothing like Al Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, et. al.
Actually, Operation Rescue is like Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc. in many ways. They're all inspired by extremist interpretations of religion. They're all willing to use violence to achieve their aims, and have a history of using violence. And they're all irrational people dominated by hatred and intolerance.
| 91 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:15:01pm |
re: #85 Cineaste
As opposed to an "undisclosed location"...
| 93 |
Ericus58 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:15:09pm |
Decent speech, accepts responsibility, hits on good points.
As our President, I support him.
But I also have expectations, and look forward to results and concrete steps taken.
I'm out for now, enjoyed the topics today and discussions as always. Be well all.
Gotta a football game to watch later ;)
| 94 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:15:12pm |
| 95 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:15:18pm |
re: #41 Locker
Who cares? This totally reminds me of Peter King saying Obama could make us safer by using the word "Terrorism" more often.
Maybe King is confusing the terrorists with Beetlejuice?
| 96 |
Gang of One Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:15:20pm |
| 97 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:15:48pm |
re: #59 Charles
The Bush administration, of course, never fired or penalized anyone in the US intelligence system after 9/11.
Didn't they all get Presidential Medals of Freedom?
| 98 |
Gang of One Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:16:13pm |
re: #88 Stanley Sea
I may be completely off base. I thought it was Muslim. Not Moslem. I'll check.
Fair enough.
| 99 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:16:16pm |
| 100 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:16:27pm |
re: #89 brookly red
when he sent them for art therapy.
Ummm.... I could be wrong but I'm pretty damn sure that was a decision Bush made not Obama... I can even dig up the correct LFG post to prove it...
There we go...
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
So are you saying Bush denied who our enemy is?
| 101 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:17:02pm |
re: #90 Charles
(but they're Americans...) I think that's the main reason people are hesitant to equate the actions of OR to those of foreign terrorists. Noone wants to admit we have such problems at home.
| 102 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:17:07pm |
BTW, Obama's counterterrorism team is holding a press conference right now. Fox News actually yanked Glen Beck's show to carry it. I hate to say it but it makes me actually glad to see Robert Gibbs on the screen.
| 103 |
Lidane Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:17:21pm |
re: #96 Gang of One
Oh, no worries on my part. I just thought it was an interesting distinction between the two words. That's all. :)
| 104 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:17:29pm |
re: #14 tradewind
There must be a bot somewhere. They can get here incredibly quickly, it's like a flash mob.
If there's a Twitter list, I'm going to be very amused.
| 105 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:18:14pm |
re: #100 jamesfirecat
Ummm... I could be wrong but I'm pretty damn sure that was a decision Bush made not Obama... I can even dig up the correct LFG post to prove it...
There we go...
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
So are you saying Bush denied who our enemy is?
yes he did, no contest. but he did also put up a pretty good defense.
| 106 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:18:24pm |
re: #101 darthstar
(but they're Americans...) I think that's the main reason people are hesitant to equate the actions of OR to those of foreign terrorists. Noone wants to admit we have such problems at home.
I have no problems with it. Timothy McVeigh was every bit as evil as Osama Bin Laden. Blowing a truck up outside a building containing a nursery school...
| 107 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:18:30pm |
re: #99 brookly red
Are you saying Obama should have stopped something that Bush Co did in 2007 back before he was just a Senator? I think that's asking a bit much of him....
| 108 |
Digital Display Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:18:57pm |
re: #72 brookly red
you can't have it both ways.
Hi Brookly! Still snowing here!
The art of politic is to always have it both ways
/I made that up
| 109 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:19:02pm |
re: #102 Dark_Falcon
BTW, Obama's counterterrorism team is holding a press conference right now. Fox News actually yanked Glen Beck's show to carry it. I hate to say it but it makes me actually glad to see Robert Gibbs on the screen.
Maybe they'll cut back to Brit Hume to explain to us why this would all go away if everyone would become Christian...
| 110 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:19:07pm |
re: #99 brookly red
he didn't stop it...
He did stop it. He wants to try them in court. Not send them back.
| 111 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:19:20pm |
speaking of the Bushies ... W's former attorney arrested for attempted murder of his wife.
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
| 112 |
Gang of One Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:20:10pm |
re: #90 Charles
Actually, Operation Rescue is like Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc. in many ways. They're all inspired by extremist interpretations of religion. They're all willing to use violence to achieve their aims, and have a history of using violence. And they're all irrational people dominated by hatred and intolerance.
Yes, there are certainly disturbing similarities in their warped view of the world. I do not wish to split hairs by pointing out numbers killed or anything morbid. Yet it seems to me to be a question of scale.
| 113 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:20:18pm |
re: #107 jamesfirecat
Are you saying Obama should have stopped something that Bush Co did in 2007 back before he was just a Senator? I think that's asking a bit much of him...
yes my bad, but it's his war now let's see how he prosecutes it.
| 114 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:20:46pm |
re: #106 Cineaste
Take out one McVeigh, a thousand spring up ///.
Really, we should forget this militant islam thing and concentrate on the real threat: the war against militant domestic terrorists.
| 115 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:21:09pm |
re: #113 brookly red
Okay then so we're in agreement that Obama hasn't lost track of who the enemy is yet?
| 116 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:21:17pm |
re: #41 Locker
Who cares? This totally reminds me of Peter King saying Obama could make us safer by using the word "Terrorism" more often.
I think there's an idea in some circles that American politicians coming on heavy-handed in public appearances somehow discourages terrorists. Same crew that imagines al-Qaeda really wants us to elect Democrats. I don't think they care much, one way or another. We will be the target no matter how tough we come on, or whoever we elect.
| 118 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:22:11pm |
re: #111 kellygrrrl
speaking of the Bushies ... W's former attorney arrested for attempted murder of his wife.
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
Whoa:
NEW HAVEN, Conn. (CBS/AP) John Michael Farren, a onetime top attorney to former President George W. Bush, tried to kill his wife by choking her and beating her with a flashlight in their Connecticut home, according to police.
The 57-year-old is charged with strangulation and attempted murder. He was ordered held Thursday on $2 million bail.
His lawyer Eugene Riccio calls it "a tragic situation."
Farren was deputy White House counsel to Bush. He also worked on the campaign and transition for former President George H.W. Bush.
An arrest affidavit says the attack occurred after Mary Farren delivered divorce papers Monday.
Police say she passed out during the attack Wednesday night at their New Canaan home and later fled with her children.
She is stable at a hospital with a broken nose, broken jaw and other injuries.
Mary Farren is a Washington D.C. lawyer for Skadden, Arps. She works on energy regulation, according to the company's Web site.
That's seriously f-ed up. Describing it as a "tragic situation" is understating it.
Do you think Sarah Palin will say that Bush was "pallin' around with abusers"?
| 119 |
SteveC Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:22:44pm |
re: #76 Killgore Trout
Republicans are holding up the TSA nominee of some anti-union paranoia. This doesn't look good to voters.
But the letter to the White House focuses on a different issue – inaccurate information Southers supplied to Senate oversight committees relating to an ethical violation during his FBI career more than 20 years ago. Southers initially told lawmakers he had asked other officers to access files on his ex-wife’s boyfriend, but then later admitted he had downloaded the files himself.
This might actually keep him out of the job, but on the surface it looks like they were looking for something - anything - and stumbled into this.
| 120 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:23:06pm |
re: #49 RogueOne
He said "lone recruits" at least twice which I found odd. When the pantie bomber was talking he said there were more coming, what makes us now believe this was a "lone" bomber?
Dunno. Of course, the pantybomber could be lying his head off, or have been told something untrue. No one wants to hear "We'll try this, and if you pull it off, we'll see about a few more." "You are the first of the new wave of jihad" sounds SO much better.
| 121 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:23:15pm |
re: #118 Cineaste
Somebody got likkered up.
Seriously, that is terrible. Hope she presses charges and gets out..... with all the groceries.
| 122 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:23:17pm |
I'm not really certain what will deter the terrorists.
I definitely feel that the policies and practices of the last administration emboldened and recruited more terrorists.
I think the issues being discussed at this point are more geared toward the intelligence community keeping the terrorists out of America rather than whether or not we are scaring them.
| 123 |
Locker Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:23:48pm |
re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist
I think there's an idea in some circles that American politicians coming on heavy-handed in public appearances somehow discourages terrorists. Same crew that imagines al-Qaeda really wants us to elect Democrats. I don't think they care much, one way or another. We will be the target no matter how tough we come on, or whoever we elect.
Agreed. For some reason they seem to forget the lessons of public school. If someone picks on you and you scream, yell, bitch and call them a bully it just makes them beat on you harder because you are giving them the response they want.
| 124 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:24:01pm |
re: #115 jamesfirecat
Okay then so we're in agreement that Obama hasn't lost track of who the enemy is yet?
hmmmm, I am not sure. I haven't heard him name them yet. He might be more of a hawk then he seems & the drone strikes would suggest that, but I don't see him rallying the country either.
| 125 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:24:09pm |
re: #118 Cineaste
I think it goes beyond "palin around with abusers" to my knowledge Obama never tried to appoint William Ayers to political position...
| 126 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:24:13pm |
re: #50 darthstar
Al Qaeda is a criminal/terrorist organization that uses religion to manipulate people into killing themselves (and others) in the name of Islam...kind of like how Operation Rescue inspires weak-minded people to kill doctors in the name of Jesus here in the US.
Al-Qaeda's doing way better. That stupid rule of law in a high-functioning society keeps messing up OR's mojo.
//
| 127 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:24:17pm |
re: #114 tradewind
Take out one McVeigh, a thousand spring up ///.
Really, we should forget this militant islam thing and concentrate on the real threat: the war against militant domestic terrorists.
I don't see them as mutually exclusive. We've got guys shooting policemen because they are afraid of a black man in the White House taking their guns and we've got guys trying to blow up buildings because they have been brainwashed into believing a war of civilizations is a good thing.
| 128 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:24:34pm |
re: #124 brookly red
hmmm, I am not sure. I haven't heard him name them yet. He might be more of a hawk then he seems & the drone strikes would suggest that, but I don't see him rallying the country either.
What could he possibly say to rally you behind him? Really.
| 129 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:25:10pm |
To give the Bush administration their due, I think they did make serious progress at undermining and in some cases destroying militant Islamic networks around the world.
| 130 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:25:13pm |
re: #128 recusancy
What could he possibly say to rally you behind him? Really.
how about we are in it to win it?
| 131 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:25:22pm |
I couldn't care less what Sarah Palin says about anything ... hopefully, it stays that way.
| 132 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:25:23pm |
re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist
I think there's an idea in some circles that American politicians coming on heavy-handed in public appearances somehow discourages terrorists. Same crew that imagines al-Qaeda really wants us to elect Democrats. I don't think they care much, one way or another. We will be the target no matter how tough we come on, or whoever we elect.
The irony is that probably Al Qaeda prefers Republicans. They want the giant war between east and west and with Bush, they knew they could keep goading him into it.
| 133 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:25:43pm |
re: #53 wrenchwench
A certain sufferer of ODS that I know says that someone must be fired/asked to resign for the intelligence failures or Obama will lose all credibility (which he never had in the eyes of the ODS sufferers, but whatever.)
Yeah, you can't lose what you never had.
What did we do the last time something like this happened? Bush didn't like to sacrifice appointees, in general.
| 134 |
Taqyia2Me Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:25:49pm |
re: #122 kellygrrrl
I'm not really certain what will deter the terrorists.
I definitely feel that the policies and practices of the last administration emboldened and recruited more terrorists.
I think the issues being discussed at this point are more geared toward the intelligence community keeping the terrorists out of America rather than whether or not we are scaring them.
This can be correctly described only as a multi-generational war because it will take that long to win it.
| 135 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:26:15pm |
re: #124 brookly red
Well at this point we're now just trading opinions back and forth so I guess we'll both have to just put our feet up, wait and see what happens...
| 136 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:26:52pm |
re: #65 Gang of One
Uh, no, it's not. While Operation Rescue is despicable, they are nothing like Al Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, et. al.
I think they'd like to be, in all seriousness. They just never had the breaks...
| 137 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:26:59pm |
re: #135 jamesfirecat
Well at this point we're now just trading opinions back and forth so I guess we'll both have to just put our feet up, wait and see what happens...
k
| 138 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:26:59pm |
define "win" please.
do you honestly believe there is some possible way to eliminate all terrorists?
| 139 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:27:12pm |
re: #119 SteveC
This might actually keep him out of the job, but on the surface it looks like they were looking for something - anything - and stumbled into this.
I read about this before and he always admitted that he had inappropriately gotten the information but it was just a question of sequence I think.
| 140 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:27:28pm |
Fox News cut away from the press conference with intelligence officials to show Glenn Beck ranting away again about communism.
Typical.
| 141 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:27:35pm |
re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah, you can't lose what you never had.
What did we do the last time something like this happened? Bush didn't like to sacrifice appointees, in general.
President Bush saw the questioning of his appointees as a questioning of him...and as he wasn't one to readily admit fault (it took him seven years to be the least bit reflective on camera), he stood behind each appointee regardless of the criticism.
| 142 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:27:56pm |
re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist
Dunno. Of course, the pantybomber could be lying his head off, or have been told something untrue. No one wants to hear "We'll try this, and if you pull it off, we'll see about a few more." "You are the first of the new wave of jihad" sounds SO much better.
Boy, it's too bad there isn't some way or some place we could hold him until we were sure. I don't know, maybe a military facility where he could be held and questioned until we're satisfied we have all the info we need? ;)
| 143 |
blueraven Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:28:04pm |
re: #124 brookly red
hmmm, I am not sure. I haven't heard him name them yet. He might be more of a hawk then he seems & the drone strikes would suggest that, but I don't see him rallying the country either.
Like Dick Cheney is doing?
| 144 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:28:24pm |
I think the Clinton Administration did more in that regard than the Bush Admin., personally
| 145 |
Kragar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:28:37pm |
re: #140 Charles
Fox News cut away from the press conference with intelligence officials to show Glenn Beck ranting away again about communism.
Typical.
They know they're audience.
| 146 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:28:38pm |
re: #87 brookly red
They are laughing at us. all they need is 1 mook w/a bag of PETN and we are fighting amongst our selfs. Time to name the enemy.
You think that will impress them?
| 147 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:28:45pm |
re: #138 kellygrrrl
define "win" please.
do you honestly believe there is some possible way to eliminate all terrorists?
we all agree that we want to eliminate cancer... might just be a matter of resolve.
| 148 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:28:53pm |
re: #140 Charles
Short attention span, Fox has. They probably got disappointed that the press corps was asking questions and letting the WH respond, rather than throwing out accusations.
| 149 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:29:02pm |
re: #89 brookly red
when he sent them for art therapy.
Bush sent 'em for art therapy, no? Or his administration?
| 150 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:29:04pm |
re: #130 brookly red
how about we are in it to win it?
If he said the words "we are in it to win it" you'd rally behind him and stop the political sniping?
| 151 |
Digital Display Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:29:07pm |
re: #113 brookly red
yes my bad, but it's his war now let's see how he prosecutes it.
I'll give him this..Obama has been running a very targeted war plan...
Think about it.. Every day almost I read on CNN that another Hellfire missile has killed a group of terrorists.. Almost every day it seems...
Remember back in 05 in Iraq? Every day we woke to news of 4 Marines killed in a roadside bomb...Everyday...The pain in our country in those horrible years was great... Friday Morning I'll probably read that 16 terrorists died in a suspected CIA drone attack..
This war continues
| 152 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:29:07pm |
| 153 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:29:18pm |
re: #140 Charles
Bwahahahahahahaha! You know there would be trouble if the Teabaggers were denied their GlennDuh time
| 154 |
The Sanity Inspector Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:29:25pm |
| 155 |
Taqyia2Me Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:29:38pm |
re: #138 kellygrrrl
define "win" please.
do you honestly believe there is some possible way to eliminate all terrorists?
To be sure, it is a constant struggle.
They need to be thoroughly educated that their tactics will only put them in a world of hurt.
| 156 |
SixDegrees Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:29:41pm |
re: #90 Charles
Actually, Operation Rescue is like Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc. in many ways. They're all inspired by extremist interpretations of religion. They're all willing to use violence to achieve their aims, and have a history of using violence. And they're all irrational people dominated by hatred and intolerance.
I've said this before, but it bears repeating: the difference between OR and the Taliban or al Qaida isn't a matter of ideology - they're in near-perfect agreement, except for the particular brand of religion they're each attempting to impose on all - but is more a matter of tactics. The strategy - imposition of a monolithic theocracy - is identical.
| 157 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:29:52pm |
re: #150 recusancy
If he said the words "we are in it to win it" you'd rally behind him and stop the political sniping?
no I would to see some actions too.
| 158 |
The Sanity Inspector Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:30:04pm |
re: #138 kellygrrrl
define "win" please.
do you honestly believe there is some possible way to eliminate all terrorists?
How many of 'em do you think we should leave?
| 159 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:30:07pm |
re: #140 Charles
Fox News cut away from the press conference with intelligence officials to show Glenn Beck ranting away again about communism.
Typical.
Irony is they say Obama is all about Obama and count the number of uses of "I" in his speeches and then they accuse him of being a communist which is about "we"... Which is it - is he all about him or all about us?
| 160 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:30:09pm |
re: #132 Cineaste
The irony is that probably Al Qaeda prefers Republicans. They want the giant war between east and west and with Bush, they knew they could keep goading him into it.
Yeah. They've loved having their asses handed to them in a dozen different countries around the world. Who doesn't like having to watch the sky for incoming missiles every time you go outside.
| 161 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:30:14pm |
re: #101 darthstar
(but they're Americans...) I think that's the main reason people are hesitant to equate the actions of OR to those of foreign terrorists. Noone wants to admit we have such problems at home.
We have such people, but they have far less influence, or power.
| 162 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:30:41pm |
re: #141 darthstar
President Bush saw the questioning of his appointees as a questioning of him...and as he wasn't one to readily admit fault (it took him seven years to be the least bit reflective on camera), he stood behind each appointee regardless of the criticism.
two words: Harriet Miers
| 164 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:31:50pm |
re: #142 RogueOne
Boy, it's too bad there isn't some way or some place we could hold him until we were sure. I don't know, maybe a military facility where he could be held and questioned until we're satisfied we have all the info we need? ;)
Totally - let's torture him for a while and scream at him "tell us if there is anyone working with you" - eventually he'll have to tell the truth... /////
or at least what we want to hear...
| 165 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:32:01pm |
I'll be back later. I'm going to take a nap.
| 166 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:32:01pm |
re: #157 brookly red
no I would to see some actions too.
What would you like to see that he's not doing?
| 167 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:32:16pm |
re: #155 Taqyia2Me
"the need to be educated" -- the same can be said for a great many Real 'Murikuns
| 168 |
Digital Display Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:33:18pm |
re: #162 Cineaste
two words: Harriet Miers
I could have forgiven him if he would have nominated his personal tax lawyer for the SCOTUS.
| 169 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:33:47pm |
re: #151 HoosierHoops
I'll give him this..Obama has been running a very targeted war plan...
Think about it.. Every day almost I read on CNN that another Hellfire missile has killed a group of terrorists.. Almost every day it seems...
Remember back in 05 in Iraq? Every day we woke to news of 4 Marines killed in a roadside bomb...Everyday...The pain in our country in those horrible years was great... Friday Morning I'll probably read that 16 terrorists died in a suspected CIA drone attack..
This war continues
I support the actions. So why not just fess up to it & stop trying to look like Mr. Nice Guy?
| 170 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:33:52pm |
re: #162 Cineaste
and he had such keen judgment in his legal advisors
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
| 171 |
The Sanity Inspector Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:33:56pm |
re: #151 HoosierHoops
I'll give him this..Obama has been running a very targeted war plan...
Think about it.. Every day almost I read on CNN that another Hellfire missile has killed a group of terrorists.. Almost every day it seems...
Remember back in 05 in Iraq? Every day we woke to news of 4 Marines killed in a roadside bomb...Everyday...The pain in our country in those horrible years was great... Friday Morning I'll probably read that 16 terrorists died in a suspected CIA drone attack..
This war continues
To be clear: It was Bush, going agains the advice of almost everyone, who initiated the surge that got Iraq under control. I highly recommend Thomas Ricks' The Gamble, for how it came about.
| 172 |
SteveC Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:34:01pm |
re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist
Bush sent 'em for art therapy, no? Or his administration?
"Abdul is one of our most dedicated warriors. Prays every day without fail, has been to Mecca at least three times, and will support the worldwide Caliphate with his dying breath. He also did this excellent watercolor of Selaih and the kids for me..."
| 173 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:34:16pm |
I've been listening and waiting for something new and the "shocking details" i was sorta promised. Have I missed it? I haven't heard anything new that we didn't know before.
| 174 |
captdiggs Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:34:34pm |
re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist
I think they'd like to be, in all seriousness. They just never had the breaks...
It's not that hard to rig up some suicide belts, or even a truck bomb and plow it into a restaurant. Even easier to acquire some automatic weapons and shoot up a pizza parlor.
If they wanted to, they could.
Comparison of religious right wing groups to Al Qaeda and Hamas used to be something that was soundly ridiculed here ( ala Rosie O'Donnell's idiotic remarks).
| 175 |
blueraven Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:34:39pm |
re: #152 brookly red
exactly.
If you say so.
I think he has acted despicably. Almost to the point of giving comfort to...well, to those who Obama won't mention.
| 176 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:34:39pm |
re: #123 Locker
Agreed. For some reason they seem to forget the lessons of public school. If someone picks on you and you scream, yell, bitch and call them a bully it just makes them beat on you harder because you are giving them the response they want.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think a soft approach 'works' either, at least not with the actual enemy. I think we spend too much time thinking about what these guys think of this or that we do. The goal is our annhilation. They don't have that much interest in how we talk about them. For us it all comes down to intelligence, unity and military hardware, I'm pretty sure.
| 177 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:34:44pm |
re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist
You think that will impress them?
Scene:
INT - Cave in Pakistan - Night
Bin Laden and friends are watching a small black and white TV. Obama adjusts the rabbit ears and the image of Obama can be made out. He's giving a press conference.
OBAMA: "We are at war against Islamic terrorists."
Bin Laden's face gets pale. He turns to the others.
BIN LADEN: "Oh shit... he's on to us. My friends, I think it's time to give up."
| 178 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:35:54pm |
re: #130 brookly red
how about we are in it to win it?
I don't want to be difficult, but are you sure your answer to that wouldn't be "Well, sounds nice, but I'll believe it when I see it?"
/
| 179 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:36:18pm |
re: #170 kellygrrrl
and he had such keen judgment in his legal advisors
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
Don't sell the guy short. He managed to get out on bail for attempted murder. Not an easy feat.
| 180 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:36:29pm |
re: #157 brookly red
no I would to see some actions too.
You do realize that Obama has launched more predator attacks on terrorists in his first year than Bush did in the last five years, right?
| 181 |
Obdicut Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:36:52pm |
re: #170 kellygrrrl
The actions of the lawyer in what sounds like a private domestic fight do not really reflect on Bush, unless the lawyer has a history of doing stuff like that.
| 182 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:37:24pm |
re: #180 Cineaste
Wow, where in the world did you hear that? Do you mean in just Yemen?
| 183 |
Gang of One Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:37:26pm |
re: #180 Cineaste
You do realize that Obama has launched more predator attacks on terrorists in his first year than Bush did in the last five years, right?
To his credit.
| 184 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:37:36pm |
re: #174 captdiggs
It's not that hard to rig up some suicide belts, or even a truck bomb and plow it into a restaurant. Even easier to acquire some automatic weapons and shoot up a pizza parlor.
If they wanted to, they could.Comparison of religious right wing groups to Al Qaeda and Hamas used to be something that was soundly ridiculed here ( ala Rosie O'Donnell's idiotic remarks).
Operation Rescue is not just a "religious right wing" group. They're a group of extremist fanatics with a history of encouraging and inspiring violent acts, and there are people working for them right now who have been convicted of bombing plots and have spent time in prison.
| 185 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:37:50pm |
re: #173 RogueOne
I've been listening and waiting for something new and the "shocking details" i was sorta promised. Have I missed it? I haven't heard anything new that we didn't know before.
"Shocking details"...have you been watching Wolf Blitzer again? /
Mostly what we're getting is a public reassurance (which we don't really need) in order to quiet the critics who are looking for everything they can to bring down this president. To them, this is about Obama, not terror.
| 186 |
brookly red Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:38:12pm |
re: #166 recusancy
What would you like to see that he's not doing?
well I don't like the whole notion of treating acts of war like common criminal matters. But having said that I am not going to pursue this any further, you agree or you don't.
| 187 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:39:21pm |
re: #142 RogueOne
Boy, it's too bad there isn't some way or some place we could hold him until we were sure. I don't know, maybe a military facility where he could be held and questioned until we're satisfied we have all the info we need? ;)
We've already had this conversation, and we're not going to convince one another.
That said, we can't learn what he doesn't know. As far as al-Qaeda is concerned, this is an entirely disposable twenty-three-year-old non-Arab. He's not walking around with a whole lot of pertinent info, and I'm pretty sure his lawyer will press him to spill anything he might have in exchange for extra chocolate milk at Supermax.
| 188 |
Gus Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:39:44pm |
Complete Obama transcript from Jan. 7, 2010, speech
We are at war. We are at war against Al Qaida, a far-reaching network of violence and hatred that attacked us on 9/11, that killed nearly 3,000 innocent people, and that is plotting to strike us again. And we will do whatever it takes to defeat them.
| 189 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:39:53pm |
re: #122 kellygrrrl
If you take them at their word, there is nothing that will deter them.
The only solution, barring a paradigm shift (ugh hate that term) in the whole hearts-and-minds thang, is to stop them before they can act.
| 190 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:40:31pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Yeah. They've loved having their asses handed to them in a dozen different countries around the world. Who doesn't like having to watch the sky for incoming missiles every time you go outside.
I don't think you understand their goals Rogue. They are not out to kill Americans. They are out to goad the West into the great war of civilizations. They think if they can get us into the fight, and then get the muslim masses to rise up that they can bring down the west, bring back the caliphate and bring the messiah. It's a very specific requirement. It's similar to why hard-core fundamentalist Christians need all the Jews to go to Israel for the end times. Osama believes that if we keep fighting the Muslim world that eventually a billion Muslims will fight back. The reason he hates the leadership of Saudi Arabia and the UAE is that they are not willing to fight.
Read "The Looming Tower" - it is hands down the best book about this subject and will be enormously enlightening about the evolution of Osama's ideology and his goals.
| 191 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:40:35pm |
re: #152 brookly red
exactly.
You see Cheney as rallying the country? All I see is partisan sniping and fear-mongering.
| 192 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:41:53pm |
re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist
NPR reported this morning that the Xmas Bomber was cooperative and gave the FBI answers to most of their questions, until he was Miranda-ized (?)...once he was charged, he apparently became combative and stopped cooperating.
He's already told everything he knows.
| 193 |
Interesting Times Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:42:07pm |
re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist
You see Cheney as rallying the country? All I see is partisan sniping and fear-mongering.
I see someone who I'd prefer would return to an undisclosed location and stay there.
| 194 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:42:11pm |
re: #185 darthstar
"Shocking details"...have you been watching Wolf Blitzer again? /
Mostly what we're getting is a public reassurance (which we don't really need) in order to quiet the critics who are looking for everything they can to bring down this president. To them, this is about Obama, not terror.
It was all over this morning, I read it in the polico. They promised me "shocking details" and I want shocking details damnit//
| 195 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:42:23pm |
re: #59 Charles
The Bush administration, of course, never fired or penalized anyone in the US intelligence system after 9/11.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
"The most effective step would be to release the CIA Inspector General report on intelligence community performance prior to 9/11. That investigation was run, and its report was prepared, by an honest Inspector General, it turns out. (Interestingly, he retired almost a year ago and has not been replaced.)
Actually, the Inspector General report fixed blame and named names. So it was immediately suppressed by one of those named, then-Acting DCI John McLaughlin—another Tenet-clone. McLaughin’s successors as Director, Porter Goss, Michael Hayden, and now Leon Panetta followed suit.
Accountability is key. If there is no accountability, there is total freedom to screw up, and screw up royally, without any thought of possible personal consequences."
| 196 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:42:38pm |
re: #171 The Sanity Inspector
To be clear: It was Bush, going agains the advice of almost everyone, who initiated the surge that got Iraq under control. I highly recommend Thomas Ricks' The Gamble, for how it came about.
But isn't that a lot like saying that we should applaud the bus driver who drove his bus into a ditch for driving it back out again? Wouldn't it be better to applaud the person who didn't drive into the ditch?
| 197 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:43:04pm |
re: #188 Gus 802
So if we're at war, take some POW's and quit handing down indictments.
| 198 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:43:08pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Yeah. They've loved having their asses handed to them in a dozen different countries around the world. Who doesn't like having to watch the sky for incoming missiles every time you go outside.
They want a fight. They are definitely in it to win it. Watching the sky for incoming missiles is either a road to martyrdom, or a recruiting tool. And they are seeing this in the long, long term.
We had better be aware of that. They're not falling back and thinking "Dammit! This isn't fun!" They're thinking "Here it comes! Rock and roll, except not, because rock and roll is haram!"
| 199 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:43:09pm |
re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist
We've already had this conversation, and we're not going to convince one another.
I wasn't trying to convince you of anything, just giving you a hard time.
| 200 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:43:37pm |
re: #194 RogueOne
It was all over this morning, I read it in the polico. They promised me "shocking details" and I want shocking details damnit//
Okay...shocking detail...apparently, the bomber's penis used to lean left, and now it's far right.
| 201 |
SixDegrees Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:43:42pm |
re: #29 Charles
I was struck by the fact that Obama took personal responsibility for the intelligence failures that led to the Christmas Day attack. I like that in a President.
The first step in overcoming a problem is to admit that you have a problem. So this is certainly welcome.
The next step is to take action to begin the overcoming part. We'll see how that goes.
I'd also like to see some independent investigation into these matters. Earlier this week, Ben Bernanke stated that the Fed's policies under Greenspan played no role at all in the financial turmoil that's unfolded over the last two years. Not many bought it.
| 202 |
captdiggs Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:43:44pm |
re: #184 Charles
Operation Rescue is not just a "religious right wing" group. They're a group of extremist fanatics with a history of encouraging and inspiring violent acts, and there are people working for them right now who have been convicted of bombing plots and spent time in prison.
Is their official ideology that of violent extermination and subjugation of all opposing faiths?
Because that is the ideology of Hamas and Al Qaeda.
By the bar you set, nearly every muslim organization in America qualifies, as nearly all have had members arrested for acts of violence and/or plots of violence.
| 203 |
Taqyia2Me Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:43:52pm |
re: #184 Charles
Operation Rescue is not just a "religious right wing" group. They're a group of extremist fanatics with a history of encouraging and inspiring violent acts, and there are people working for them right now who have been convicted of bombing plots and have spent time in prison.
Very true. One should not distinguish between that and islamic terrorism. They both participate in crimes against humanity.
| 204 |
recusancy Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:43:58pm |
re: #186 brookly red
well I don't like the whole notion of treating acts of war like common criminal matters. But having said that I am not going to pursue this any further, you agree or you don't.
Your arguing this because you don't like the guy. Period.
re: #128 recusancyWhat could he possibly say to rally you behind him? Really.
how about we are in it to win it?
re: #150 recusancy
If he said the words "we are in it to win it" you'd rally behind him and stop the political sniping?
no I would to see some actions too.
re: #151 HoosierHoops
I'll give him this..Obama has been running a very targeted war plan...
Think about it.. Every day almost I read on CNN that another Hellfire missile has killed a group of terrorists.. Almost every day it seems...
Remember back in 05 in Iraq? Every day we woke to news of 4 Marines killed in a roadside bomb...Everyday...The pain in our country in those horrible years was great... Friday Morning I'll probably read that 16 terrorists died in a suspected CIA drone attack..
This war continues
I support the actions. So why not just fess up to it & stop trying to look like Mr. Nice Guy?
| 205 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:44:12pm |
re: #197 tradewind
So if we're at war, take some POW's and quit handing down indictments.
POWs have to be returned to their country of origin, without charge, after the war ends.
| 206 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:45:24pm |
re: #193 publicityStunted
And yet curiously, the public approval ratings of Darth Cheney and Obama are now close to meeting.
| 207 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:45:38pm |
re: #174 captdiggs
It's not that hard to rig up some suicide belts, or even a truck bomb and plow it into a restaurant. Even easier to acquire some automatic weapons and shoot up a pizza parlor.
If they wanted to, they could.Comparison of religious right wing groups to Al Qaeda and Hamas used to be something that was soundly ridiculed here ( ala Rosie O'Donnell's idiotic remarks).
They could, but they would get their asses arrested, and they would be hunted down, and their organizations would be dismantled. It's a combination of rule of law, a high-functioning society, and the fact that most of these guys are candy-asses who prefer to have someone else suffer.
Idologically, show me a distinction.
| 208 |
kellygrrrl Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:45:45pm |
re: #205 darthstar
which would be a problem, I suppose, if the war was ever to end
| 209 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:46:27pm |
re: #205 darthstar
I could go for that. Ship 'em back, and put up a better firewall to keep them out.
| 210 |
Gus Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:46:37pm |
re: #197 tradewind
So if we're at war, take some POW's and quit handing down indictments.
What's going on in Afghanistan and the region?
| 211 |
darthstar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:46:54pm |
re: #206 tradewind
And yet curiously, the public approval ratings of Darth Cheney and Obama are now close to meeting.
Obama 56% approval. Cheney 19% approval. Yes, those numbers are dangerously close together.
| 212 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:46:57pm |
re: #182 RogueOne
Wow, where in the world did you hear that? Do you mean in just Yemen?
No - I was slightly off in my numbers. He launched as many strikes in 9-1/2 months as Bush did in the last 3 years:
The first two C.I.A. air strikes of the Obama Administration took place on the morning of January 23rd—the President’s third day in office. Within hours, it was clear that the morning’s bombings, in Pakistan, had killed an estimated twenty people. In one strike, four Arabs, all likely affiliated with Al Qaeda, died. But in the second strike a drone targeted the wrong house, hitting the residence of a pro-government tribal leader six miles outside the town of Wana, in South Waziristan. The blast killed the tribal leader’s entire family, including three children, one of them five years old. In keeping with U.S. policy, there was no official acknowledgment of either strike.Since then, the C.I.A. bombardments have continued at a rapid pace. According to a just completed study by the New America Foundation, the number of drone strikes has risen dramatically since Obama became President. During his first nine and a half months in office, he has authorized as many C.I.A. aerial attacks in Pakistan as George W. Bush did in his final three years in office. The study’s authors, Peter Bergen and Katherine Tiedemann, report that the Obama Administration has sanctioned at least forty-one C.I.A. missile strikes in Pakistan since taking office—a rate of approximately one bombing a week. So far this year, various estimates suggest, the C.I.A. attacks have killed between three hundred and twenty-six and five hundred and thirty-eight people. Critics say that many of the victims have been innocent bystanders, including children.
| 213 |
SteveC Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:47:17pm |
re: #194 RogueOne
I want shocking details damnit//
All the LGF ladies are getting this cute little lizard tattoo on their left hip. He's a cute little fellow.... and the ladies look awesome!
| 215 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:48:32pm |
re: #194 RogueOne
It was all over this morning, I read it in the polico. They promised me "shocking details" and I want shocking details damnit//
Yeah, even on my morning news. "These details may shock you!" I WANT SHOCKING DETAILS!
| 216 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:49:00pm |
re: #210 Gus 802
Do you know? Because I really don't.
What worries me is that the people who should know here don't, either.
| 217 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:49:11pm |
re: #199 RogueOne
I wasn't trying to convince you of anything, just giving you a hard time.
Yeah, the smiley face clued me in. ;)
| 218 |
badger1970 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:49:41pm |
re: #212 Cineaste
One still needs on ground intelligence to be able to identify and then destroy targets. Two different scenarios between Bush and Obama. The ground work had to be done first (under the previous administration) then the icing could be applied. What's next, body counts?
| 219 |
Gus Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:50:04pm |
re: #214 Cineaste
but when will he really say it? ///
Yeah, he didn't use the phrase Islamo-fascism. He didn't mention Islam as the enemy. He used the word "I" too much. He was appeasing the Muslims...
| 220 |
Digital Display Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:50:55pm |
re: #213 SteveC
All the LGF ladies are getting this cute little lizard tattoo on their left hip. He's a cute little fellow... and the ladies look awesome!
I want my official lizard tee-shirt and work-out gear...
I think Charles should go with the coffee cups, hats and training gear and tee-shirts with rotating titles on the back
| 221 |
SixDegrees Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:51:04pm |
re: #202 captdiggs
Is their official ideology that of violent extermination and subjugation of all opposing faiths?
Because that is the ideology of Hamas and Al Qaeda.By the bar you set, nearly every muslim organization in America qualifies, as nearly all have had members arrested for acts of violence and/or plots of violence.
Once again - this is merely a difference of tactics, not of ultimate goals.
And yes, those goals involve the subjugation and extermination of all opposing faiths.
See the "Wedge Document" for more details. Although primarily focused on the subjugation of science rather than accessibility of medical care, it pretty much covers where the kooks in America's religious right want to wind up and how they plan to get there. The end result, compared with where the Taliban and al Qaida want to wind up, are indistinguishable.
| 222 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:52:20pm |
re: #202 captdiggs
By the bar you set, nearly every muslim organization in America qualifies, as nearly all have had members arrested for acts of violence and/or plots of violence.
"Every Muslim organization in America?"
Paint with a broad brush much?
| 223 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:52:48pm |
re: #214 Cineaste
but when will he really say it? ///
Maybe we could have a morning talk show with Obama. "Good morning America, this is Barack Obama, and I oppose Islamofascist terrorism! It's a chilly day in DC, hope it's warmer in your neck of the woods. Now, this next song is going out to a young man whose name I can't tell you, or I'd have to kill you all. Undisclosed CIA Agent, this one's for you!"
/"Secret Agent Man" begins to play.
| 224 |
Gus Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:52:54pm |
re: #216 tradewind
Do you know? Because I really don't.
What worries me is that the people who should know here don't, either.
No. I think what you're really saying is that people who should know here aren't thinking the way you want them to think. At least Afghanistan isn't being ignored as it was in 2008 and prior to that.
Obama is the president. This isn't about what a private citizen wants him to do, namely Dick Cheney who is undermining the efforts of the White House.
You want to look more closely look here.
| 226 |
Kewalo Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:54:28pm |
re: #144 kellygrrrl
I think the Clinton Administration did more in that regard than the Bush Admin., personally
I couldn't agree more. I was out of the country for most of the 90's so after 9/11 when so many people tried to blame the Clinton administration I did a ton of research. Clinton was working to stay on top of it and being ridiculed by the right. It's really too bad that the Bush administration didn't follow through on the anti-terrorism policies that Clinton had put into place, the world might look entirely different.
| 227 |
captdiggs Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:55:21pm |
re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist
They could, but they would get their asses arrested, and they would be hunted down, and their organizations would be dismantled. It's a combination of rule of law, a high-functioning society, and the fact that most of these guys are candy-asses who prefer to have someone else suffer.
Idologically, show me a distinction.
The distinction is within your post, they operate within civilized law as opposed to outside of it as does Al Qaeda and hamas.
I'm a pro choice person myself. But if OR was the same as Hamas and Al Qaeda, they would be on the national terror organization list.
If they officially had a policy of mass murder for political reasons that resulted in mass murder, they would be easily indicted for that incitement.
I'm just saying that the comparison is hyperbolic.
| 228 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:55:23pm |
re: #218 badger1970
One still needs on ground intelligence to be able to identify and then destroy targets. Two different scenarios between Bush and Obama. The ground work had to be done first (under the previous administration) then the icing could be applied. What's next, body counts?
I doubt Bush had a lot of guys on the ground in Pakistan and Yemen. Bush also had 45,000 fewer troops in Afghanistan. I'm not sure what you're pointing to - are you implying that a few hundred thousand troops fighting in Iraq was helping us fight Al Qaeda in Pakistan?
| 229 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 2:56:11pm |
re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist
Maybe we could have a morning talk show with Obama. "Good morning America, this is Barack Obama, and I oppose Islamofascist terrorism! It's a chilly day in DC, hope it's warmer in your neck of the woods. Now, this next song is going out to a young man whose name I can't tell you, or I'd have to kill you all. Undisclosed CIA Agent, this one's for you!"
/"Secret Agent Man" begins to play.
Well that's how you win the war on terror... /////
| 230 |
Bulldoglover100 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:00:27pm |
re: #218 badger1970
Really? That's what you would calling sending 4000 Americans to their death? in a country that was not the problem to begin with? Really? Good luck with that when speaking to educated people......
| 231 |
badger1970 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:02:04pm |
re: #228 Cineaste
Indirectly, yes. It is a global terrorist network.
| 232 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:02:04pm |
re: #212 Cineaste
He needs to check his numbers. According to this story, by the same guy Peter Bergen, there were 80 strikes over the last 2 years. If he's right about there being 40 in the first 10 months of Obama's presidency then his "During his first nine and a half months in office, he has authorized as many C.I.A. aerial attacks in Pakistan as George W. Bush did in his final three years in office." statement is way off.
That all said, I'm not about to take the numbers of predator strikes from a group who obviously doesn't like their use at face value.
| 233 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:03:29pm |
| 234 |
MandyManners Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:03:33pm |
re: #230 Bulldoglover100
Really? That's what you would calling sending 4000 Americans to their death? in a country that was not the problem to begin with? Really? Good luck with that when speaking to educated people...
Someone else who's had difficulty with that Carnegie course.
| 236 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:04:40pm |
re: #231 badger1970
Indirectly, yes. It is a global terrorist network.
Just unfortunately it was not in Iraq when we sent all those troops there.
| 237 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:04:58pm |
re: #234 MandyManners
Someone else who's had difficulty with that Carnegie course.
Maybe he can call Dale and get a refund!
| 238 |
Kragar Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:05:10pm |
OT
Know what I fucking hate? When some webpage puts in a redirect or counter between it links, so when you hit back, it takes you to the same page again. Annoys the shit out of me.
| 239 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:05:14pm |
re: #236 Cineaste
It was after tho', we just had to lure them in ;)
| 240 |
Obdicut Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:05:30pm |
re: #234 MandyManners
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
| 241 |
badger1970 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:05:53pm |
re: #230 Bulldoglover100
So you would prefer to just look at satellite pictures with no assets in the area (and in support of said area) and hope to defeat and enemy as elusive as a cockroach?
How many success on US soil since 9/11? To Obama's credit, he does seem serious about protecting us. What the initial reply was to say that UAV strikes alone could win the GWOT.
Maybe I'm too thin skinned.
| 242 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:07:34pm |
re: #241 badger1970
So you would prefer to just look at satellite pictures with no assets in the area (and in support of said area) and hope to defeat and enemy as elusive as a cockroach?
so its 'find an enemy that we can fight directly, since the main goal is too squirrely to catch up with'?
I suppose it is more emotionally satisfying that way.
| 243 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:09:24pm |
Obama Attack on Christmas...
I knew it!!!
//
| 244 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:09:55pm |
re: #235 RogueOne
Sorry, shoulda added the link.
[Link: www.thewashingtonnote.com...]
That link didn't seem to imply they were against the drone attacks. They just thought the stats were being whitewashed about civilian casualties.
Also - to the question of numbers. I believe the discrepancy is the difference between the CIA and US military drone programs which are separate. The 80 number is most likely referring to drone strikes in theaters of operation for the military - ie: inside Afghanistan or Iraq. The article I cited was about CIA drone strikes which are outside the military zones of operation (and where the terrorist leadership is hiding) - eg: Pakistan & Yemen.
| 245 |
MandyManners Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:12:25pm |
| 246 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:12:34pm |
re: #147 brookly red
That's a little unfair, cancer becomes less dangerous as we become more technologically advanced, terrorists on the other hand gets more and more dangerous as it becomes easier and easier to put together bombs and what not...
| 247 |
badger1970 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:13:40pm |
re: #242 windsagio
Whatever. One cannot hit what one cannot see. One cannot see without one knowing what is there.
Give the Bush administration at least some credit for taking the fight to the enemy and not the enemy to usl.
| 248 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:14:41pm |
re: #247 badger1970
which has nothing to do with what you said.
I'm sorry that this war isn't nice and easy. I know it sucks that those damn cowards won't stand up and fight us face-to-face!
| 249 |
Cineaste Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:15:46pm |
re: #247 badger1970
Whatever. One cannot hit what one cannot see. One cannot see without one knowing what is there.
Give the Bush administration at least some credit for taking the fight to the enemy and not the enemy to usl.
But that's just it. We took the fight to the enemy in Afghanistan. Then we took that fight to the mean old man next door who had nothing to do with it... While we were busy messing up that guys front lawn, the real fighters were busy festering.
| 250 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:18:26pm |
re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist
Cheney is snipping? I'd tell every old man in a five block radius to cover their face and head for shelter!
| 251 |
badger1970 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:18:34pm |
re: #248 windsagio
Maybe I misread what you were trying to get at. I was just trying to state that today's UAV attacks wouldn't have been as successful if it wasn't for the surge. Maybe I'm just one of the loonies that still thinks Iraq and Al Queda are related.
| 252 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:19:39pm |
re: #251 badger1970
Maybe I'm just one of the loonies that still thinks Iraq and Al Queda are related.
You said it, not me. Self-insight is always good tho'
| 253 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:21:42pm |
re: #206 tradewind
What? I will remain highly skeptical of this until I see some proof to back it up!
| 254 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:21:57pm |
re: #244 Cineaste
I'm just saying given his stance on their use I would take his numbers with a grain of salt. The other stories I found from them made it pretty clear regarding their stance on the use of drones. Here's one:
[Link: www.newamerica.net...]
The drone war against Al Qaeda's leaders--and, increasingly, their Pakistani-based Taliban allies--has been waged with little public discussion or congressional investigation of its legality or efficacy, even though the offensive is essentially a program of assassination that kills not only militant leaders, but also civilians in a country that is, at least nominally, a close ally of the United States. Nor has there been a substantive debate about whether the gains of winnowing the ranks of Al Qaeda's leadership outweigh the fact that the inevitable civilian casualties are a superb recruiting tool for the Pakistani Taliban.
I caught that distinction between the CIA and Military drones but the Shane article he mentions in the first link is about CIA drone strikes also so somebody has their numbers wrong. I find it hard to believe that Obama has authorized 3x more strikes than Bush unless they've had 3x as many opportunites which is what I doubt.
| 255 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:22:52pm |
re: #253 jamesfirecat
actually somebody posted up the actual approval ratings. I guess '36 points' is 'dangerously close to meeting'
| 257 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:26:32pm |
re: #224 Gus 802
namely Dick Cheney who is undermining the efforts of the White House.
...
Sorry, that tradition of not speaking ill publicly of a sitting president was thoroughly broken by Jimmy Carter, continued by Bubba, and since Bush I had (and has) way too much class to do it, neither does Dubya. Cheney probably feels like a proxy.
For the record, although I agree with Cheney, I don't think he should publicly criticize Obama from his position as ex Veep.
| 258 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:27:42pm |
re: #255 windsagio
All depends on whose poll you're adopting. There was a headline a month or so ago remarking that the two were not all that far apart.
| 259 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:28:16pm |
re: #257 tradewind
Of course, since all those Democrats did it, its not so bad that Cheney does it!
IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!
| 260 |
RogueOne Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:28:29pm |
re: #256 windsagio
56-19=37 math isn't my strong point >
You're right but it's not your fault because your starting numbers are wrong//
47-39=8
[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]
| 261 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:28:36pm |
re: #258 tradewind
find it and post it then. This isn't a Strategic Vision poll is it?
| 262 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:30:15pm |
re: #260 RogueOne
eeh, I took the numbers above and did some subtraction. I admit that LAT story is scary tho'.
| 263 |
Gus Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:30:32pm |
re: #257 tradewind
...
Sorry, that tradition of not speaking ill publicly of a sitting president was thoroughly broken by Jimmy Carter, continued by Bubba, and since Bush I had (and has) way too much class to do it, neither does Dubya. Cheney probably feels like a proxy.
For the record, although I agree with Cheney, I don't think he should publicly criticize Obama from his position as ex Veep.
I was thinking about Carter when I wrote that. Carter was certainly wrong when he did it with President Bush. At the same time, I admire Bush for carrying on the tradition and remaining silent.
| 264 |
tradewind Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:31:11pm |
re: #247 badger1970
After 9-11, there were no more successfull attacks on our soil during Bush's watch. I don't think the stat keepers for Obama want to start comparing effectiveness of deterrent strategies just yet, considering we've had at least two, possibly three attempts, (with fatalities at Ft Hood) and it's year one for #45.
You have to hand it to Joe the Senator vice president..... he had his ' this president will be tested from day one' prediction hat on straight.
| 265 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:32:10pm |
| 267 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:33:39pm |
re: #241 badger1970
I wouldn't be surprised, clearly easier to send in the drones than to put actual boots on the ground. If the US works on getting better spy satellites and more people watching them it could upgrade our tech superiority level from "undeniable" to "James Bond Villain" as the members of the 101rst Chairborn division would be able to track and kill terrorists from the comfort of their air conditioned cubicles...
| 268 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:33:55pm |
re: #265 windsagio
On the other hand, If I'm slinging arrows, I have to admit I was wrong about the poll numbers >>
| 269 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:41:38pm |
| 270 |
windsagio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:45:59pm |
re: #269 jamesfirecat
well sure. But if I was wrong about the numbers I have to admit it :P
| 271 |
Interesting Times Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:50:15pm |
re: #206 tradewind
And yet curiously, the public approval ratings of Darth Cheney and Obama are now close to meeting.
Er...
Cheney Approval Ratings, Dec 2-3 2009, Fav 39 Unfav 53 (CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll)
Obama Approval Ratings, Dec 16-20 2009, Fav 58, Unfav 40 (same poll as above - scroll down)
| 272 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jan 7, 2010 4:02:36pm |
re: #264 tradewind
What do you call the Anthrax attacks? (A questioned I asked on the other thread but feel it should be repeated here) Why weren't they a successful terrorist attack on American Soil?
| 273 |
bklynkid Thu, Jan 7, 2010 4:03:52pm |
re: #3 Charles
its about time he took responsibility rather than blame previous Adm.
| 274 |
torrentprime Thu, Jan 7, 2010 4:32:42pm |
re: #273 bklynkid
its about time he took responsibility rather than blame previous Adm.
Right. December 27, Mary Matalin, Dick Cheney adviser: "I was there, we inherited a recession from President Clinton and we inherited the most tragic attack on our own soil in our nation's history."
Got that? An attack 8 months after you take office is "inheriting" it.
| 275 |
JoyousMN Thu, Jan 7, 2010 4:33:19pm |
re: #247 badger1970
Whatever. One cannot hit what one cannot see. One cannot see without one knowing what is there.
Give the Bush administration at least some credit for taking the fight to the enemy and not the enemy to usl.
I don't give him credit for that. I think we could have spent a lot less money and saved thousands of lives and made us safer if we HADN'T attacked Iraq. Remember AQ was not welcome in Iraq before we went to war there.
I realize my opinion may be in the minority here but I truly think we were made less safe by the war against Iraq, not more.
| 276 |
JoyousMN Thu, Jan 7, 2010 4:36:18pm |
re: #257 tradewind
...
For the record, although I agree with Cheney, I don't think he should publicly criticize Obama from his position as ex Veep.
Tradewind, I'm just curious...what do you agree with Cheney on?
| 277 |
JEA62 Thu, Jan 7, 2010 6:33:14pm |
8 years. We've had 8 years. 2 administrations. And we still can't connect dots. I don't give a damn whether it's Republican or Democrat, just find somebody who can connect the damn dots.
| 278 |
Spricio Thu, Jan 7, 2010 11:33:12pm |
re: #277 JEA62
lol that was a great statement
I wholeheartedly agree...for f'ks sake, someone...anyone...make some sense of the bullshit coming out of the white house
| 279 |
Graphictruth Thu, Jan 7, 2010 11:56:00pm |
re: #112 Gang of One
"Scale" is almost certainly an issue of opportunity and context, far more than it is to some difference in what they WOULD do if they COULD do it.
Check out Theocracy Watch some time. Some of the things these people say out loud concerns me, for what they might be actually smart enough to not actually say at all.
| 280 |
JEA62 Fri, Jan 8, 2010 4:48:04am |
re: #278 Spricio
Actually, I was talking about the intelligence agencies who are the ones responsible for connecting those dots before it even gets to the president. We've had three major incidents in the last few months: Ft. Hood, the CIA massacre in Afghanistan, and this. WTF is going on???
| 281 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Jan 8, 2010 5:19:32am |
re: #159 Cineaste
I am me as you are he as you are he and we are all together.
Obama is the Walrus!!!!1!!!!!
| 282 |
Filala Fri, Jan 8, 2010 9:11:19am |
re: #24 darthstar
So he takes responsibility, so what? That doesn't mean anything, just Obama words - and I don't believe much of what he says, no matter how sincere he looks when saying it. Remember, he also promised again and again that the Obamacare discussions would be open and transparent, Hah!
| 283 |
davesax Fri, Jan 8, 2010 9:12:30am |
re: #59 Charles
I understand that the Bush administration didn't fire anyone in the intelligence community, but that doesn't mean that Obama ought to continue operating the same way.
People should be fired. Christopher Hitchens wrote an article in Slate saying as much, and from what I've read, he's not a sufferer of what is called ODS.
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