Waves at L.A.

"Hi! L.A. I'm a conservative and I am still here. Nice to have y'all!"

I have to wonder what the tardosphere must be thinking this morning, seeing this.

re: #1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Me too! Sensible conservatives are at least as welcome as ever in my experience here.

Has anyone seen this? An american cartoonist is getting death threats from teabaggers for his cartoon? Sheesh, I didn't event think the cartoon as that good.

[Link: www.markfiore.com...]

I just saw this through Huffpost (dont hit!) Reminds me of the recent Hitchens interview.

Charles continues his downward spiral into obscurity. Sad really.

//

re: #1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #3 Rightwingconspirator

ME THREE!

That's a line which may never be crossed. When people start talking about your address and revenge, a whole new and unacceptable level has been breached and it's just not tolerable.

Take care, Charles. Although I'm pretty sure that's not the first time this threshold's been breached.

re: #4 limewash

Has anyone seen this? An american cartoonist is getting death threats from teabaggers for his cartoon? Sheesh, I didn't event think the cartoon as that good.

[Link: www.markfiore.com...]

Who in the world would threaten to kill someone over a cartoon? Oh yeah. Irony is lost on those people.

OMG! Another plaid shirt! Here come the intellectuals!

But not totally immune. As I talked to Johnson in his office, an alert flashed on one of his two giant computer monitors. An angry screed targeting him on another website concluded: “I think a visit to Mr. Johnson’s home might be warranted. Anybody got his address?”

I remember that alert -- I posted it. In fact, that threat is still up at Ryan Mauro's blog hosted by David Horowitz.

Congrats CHARLES

Do you at least get a free subscription to the Times for agreeing to the interview?
A Times Coffee mug??
ANYTHING !?!?!?

re: #7 sattv4u2

re: #3 Rightwingconspirator

ME THREE!

I think we could all best be summed up in general, as follows:

Hi LA Times (and others)! We are America. We are what make this country great: Left, Right, and Center all getting along. Pay more attention to us.

It's your intellectual honesty that I find so compelling (and why I am here). How many other public people (bloggers, journalists or others) are there who can take new data and assess it and honestly be willing to change views on anything?

Pretty few.

Andrew Sullivan went through some similar introspection in the past few years. Its been eye opening to follow both of you. Refreshing, really.

Oh yea! Something to read at lunch. See ya'll later!

Good for you, Charles.

Interesting the writer uses this article for damage control on the whole Obama - Khalidi live video affair.

That tape should have been released, and you weren't the only one who thought so.

After reading that story and Charles' quotes, it is clear that he is exactly the kind of raving mad man the right wing blogosphere has been warning me about!! ///

Seriously though, that was a nice piece.

re: #17 Soap_Man

A touch whiny & defensive about the tape. Otherwise, pretty good. I think it will attract some visitors and make some noobs. Always a good thing after the trolls fall out.

Awesome, Charles. I'm so glad word is spreading out to the public that there as a a sane site for discussion.

re: #18 Rightwingconspirator

A touch whiny & defensive about the tape. Otherwise, pretty good. I think it will attract some visitors and make some noobs. Always a good thing after the trolls fall out.

We have thinned the Troll Herd pretty good the past few weeks. If I'm going to cook up a batch of Troll Delight Surprise for all the Lizards we need some more.

George Galloway MP deported from Egypt

The BBC's Cairo correspondent Yolande Knell said Mr Galloway had returned from Gaza, where the convoy arrived two days ago, and had been planning to head back to London.

But when he and his assistant returned to Egypt they learnt that seven other members of the convoy still in Gaza were due to be arrested on their return to Egypt.

Mr Galloway wanted to go back to accompany them out but it is understood the Egyptians would not allow him to return, bundled both men into a van and escorted them to the airport.

There has been much tension around the aid convoy after Egypt made it take a big detour, delaying its arrival. There were clashes with Egyptian police at a port close to the Rafah crossing, our correspondent said.

A spokeswoman for the convoy said police intervened when Mr Galloway and colleague Ron McKay arrived at the crossing.

"As soon as they emerged on to Egyptian soil, both men were forcibly pushed into a van, refused exit and told that they were leaving the country. They were then driven off in a police convoy."

She said Mr Galloway had been put on a plane bound for London.

re: #20 SteveC

We have thinned the Troll Herd pretty good the past few weeks. If I'm going to cook up a batch of Troll Delight Surprise for all the Lizards we need some more.

Yeah, the troll barbecue has been lit, but hasn't seen much action these days. We need an open registration.

re: #22 thedopefishlives

Yeah, the troll barbecue has been lit, but hasn't seen much action these days. We need an open registration.

OOH! That'll bring in enough to make some Troll House Cookies, too! :)

re: #18 Rightwingconspirator

A touch whiny & defensive about the tape. Otherwise, pretty good. I think it will attract some visitors and make some noobs. Always a good thing after the trolls fall out.

I wonder if the reporter who wrote this story had something to do with the infamous tape. Perhaps that's why he seemed to defensive.

re: #14 bluewater

It's your intellectual honesty that I find so compelling (and why I am here). How many other public people (bloggers, journalists or others) are there who can take new data and assess it and honestly be willing to change views on anything?

Pretty few.

Andrew Sullivan went through some similar introspection in the past few years. Its been eye opening to follow both of you. Refreshing, really.

Here, here, my sentiments exactly. Take care of yourself, Charles. Please don't hesitate to consult with your local law enforcement people. Especially if you notice physical stalking.
Cheers. Thanks again for LGF.

Grats Charles.
You've earned it.

It'd be nice for newspapers to start a little navel gazing...most of the 'professional' journalists could use a dose of "It's not who's parties you get invited to, it's who's enemies lists you make.."

Congrats, Charles! Nice to see you getting some added visibility!

(reposted/modified from Palms to the Sky):

What I don't get is why it seems like everyone tries to pigeon-hole you. Though the author did mention at the end of the piece that you shouldn't be assumed to be a "committed lefty," he started with this gem:

Charles Johnson's Little Green Footballs website once was devoted to writing about the 'Loony Left.' Now he prefers to focus on his liberal social views and disagreeing conservatives.

That is overly simplistic and demonstrates ignorance of LGF. The range of topics here is far and beyond this description and I find it a little irritating to have your work described in such an offhanded manner. Mr. Rainey really should have taken some time to do a little research on his subject matter before sitting down to interview you.

Still, anything that raises awareness of LGF is good - spread of anti-iditoarianism (or simply letting other anti-idiotarians know that they are not alone) is a good thing.

re: #27 SasyMomaCat

eh, block quotes don't translate from a copied post, but I figure you know which part was an article quote.

Not a bad article at all. Just wished they had given more focus to Charles's pro-sanity science posts. Those are some of my favourites, and are a really great example of where some on the right went off the rails. Thanks again Charles.

re: #16 davesax

Interesting the writer uses this article for damage control on the whole Obama - Khalidi live video affair.

That tape should have been released, and you weren't the only one who thought so.

I thought so too.

Terrific piece, Charles. You stake out the ground the vast majority of Americans stand on. Nobody gets a free ride- and that is after all, the most quintessential all American political traits.

Thanks for helping me stay on the political straight and narrow.

re: #29 McSpiff

Yes, that's the kind of thing I was talking about - the simplistic approach the writer took overlooked the pro-sanity, pro-science, anti-idiotarian approach of LGF and made it about "politics." Obviously, politics will be involved in those types of discussions, but ultimately, imho, LGF is about reason and reality.

re: #29 McSpiff

There is a Federal program in place to educate Federal Judges in simple Science principals such as DNA evidence, etc. I'm not exactly sure of the curriculum. 180 or so have graduated already. Much more education to be done.

I bet they will temporarily love you at the LAT, Charles.

Here is the Towercam, it's back up.

Nature break.

BBL

re: #33 prairiefire

There is a Federal program in place to educate Federal Judges in simple Science principals such as DNA evidence, etc. I'm not exactly sure of the curriculum. 180 or so have graduated already. Much more education to be done.

FEDERAL RE-EDUCATION CAMPS!!1!

AHHH!

///channeling Charles.

re: #34 Ojoe

Thanks! Your Blue Moon from the Towercam was phenomenal.

re: #35 McSpiff

Those stodgy old judges need updates. Absolutely.

re: #36 prairiefire

CURSES! Missed it.

re: #36 prairiefire

You are welcome. We live in a beautiful works & have much to be thankful for.

Now, back to work for me.

re: #39 Ojoe

what, no modern whig party posts before you leave? ;-)

re: #1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Waves at L.A.

"Hi! L.A. I'm a conservative and I am still here. Nice to have y'all!"

That is the same for me.
Charles allows rational conservatives to post on his blog so frankly I didn't quite understand your piece. But never mind we enjoy seeing Charles and his hard work highlighted :))

re: #38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

CURSES! Missed it.

Go back to that date, December 31st, and check.

re: #37 prairiefire

Those stodgy old judges need updates. Absolutely.

O I totally agree, but lately I've made a game out of predicting the next wingnut outrage attack. Obama telling judges how to view evidence is a worthy candidate in my mind.

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I wrote the author, saying in short, the Times should be far more mindful of the promises it makes to sources.

Playing with Jarreau and Stanley Clarke is impressive!

re: #40 SasyMomaCat

OK, check out the Modern Whig Party:

Modern Whig Party

They will be redoing their website soon. I'm hoping to help them get the 'States Rights' part off & changed to "Local Responsibility & Accountability" which would be a better way to put it. The current choice of words is no good.

BBL Really.

This is for all of the flouncers who might be reading these comments.

re: #13 thedopefishlives

I think we could all best be summed up in general, as follows:

Hi LA Times (and others)! We are America. We are what make this country great: Left, Right, and Center all getting along. Pay more attention to us.

Yes! Charles is showing y'all how different peoples can get along with each other and treat each other with respect.

re: #8 koedo

That's a line which may never be crossed. When people start talking about your address and revenge, a whole new and unacceptable level has been breached and it's just not tolerable.

Take care, Charles. Although I'm pretty sure that's not the first time this threshold's been breached.

Such veiled threats are at least one reason why Johnson, 56, relocated not long ago. He remains in the Los Angeles area, but now is in a gated community.

Which I hope will give some people pause, the next time they're tempted to deplore people who live in gated communities.

re: #11 Gus 802

I remember that alert -- I posted it. In fact, that threat is still up at Ryan Mauro's blog hosted by David Horowitz.

You are joking Gus?

re: #48 Blueheron

In other words if you treat each other with respect all sorts of different people can get along? :)

re: #50 Blueheron

You are joking Gus?

I posted the alert.

re: #53 kozmocostello

Well. That was assholeish.

re: #53 kozmocostello

Oh, fresh game! Who's got the grill ready?

re: #20 SteveC

We have thinned the Troll Herd pretty good the past few weeks. If I'm going to cook up a batch of Troll Delight Surprise for all the Lizards we need some more.

Do they come with caramel drizzled over them?
I certainly hope so.

re: #55 Varek Raith

I have a lovely vinegar marinade.

re: #52 Gus 802

I posted the alert.

Oh OK :)) lol

re: #55 Varek Raith

Oh, fresh game! Who's got the grill ready?

Brushed, oiled, hot and ready to go. Gamey buttocks, coming right up.

re: #53 kozmocostello

Comment #53. Hmm. That took longer than I expected it to.

re: #56 Blueheron

That is a great idea. Dark Falcon got out his fryer last night.

re: #60 Soap_Man

Comment #53. Hmm. That took longer than I expected it to.

Yeah, I was just thinking it was a bit TOO peaceful in this thread. I figured the sock puppets would be coming out of the walls.

19 comments, almost three years. Geez.

re: #53 kozmocostello

I wonder, was that ever a goal?

Somehow I think it was never required nor desired. Could be wrong, of course.

re: #58 Blueheron

Oh OK :)) lol

Yeah. That's why I said "I remember that alert -- I posted it." Hope that was clear. :)

re: #20 SteveC

We have thinned the Troll Herd pretty good the past few weeks. If I'm going to cook up a batch of Troll Delight Surprise for all the Lizards we need some more.

Commie.
/

re: #63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

aw, darn - didn't mean to engage it . . .

re: #67 SasyMomaCat

rather, wish I hadn't

OT

Tim Blair of the Daily Telegraph is an idiot.

Full stop.

DON'T CLICK HIS LINK! DON'T CLICK HIS LINK!

DANGER! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

re: #67 SasyMomaCat

aw, darn - didn't mean to engage it . . .

in bed

re: #63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

19 comments, almost three years. Geez.

And a 'Food Scientist" to boot

"food science'

Hold The Pickles Hold The Lettuce
Special Orders Don't Upset Us!

re: #51 oaktree

In other words if you treat each other with respect all sorts of different people can get along? :)

Either way. I am easy :)

re: #72 sattv4u2

*SNORT*

re: #53 kozmocostello

It's not cool to make this comment to begin with, but in the context of the threats given to Charles, it's especially bad. Shame on you.

re: #73 Blueheron

Either way. I am easy :)

in bed

The LA Times did an incomplete job. They failed to mention the most important thing -- I'm still hanging out here.

re: #68 SasyMomaCat

rather, wish I hadn't

Eh, we've all done it before. Sometimes a person just needs to vent a little bit, and one of the best ways to do that is by feeding the trolls. It's not like they're really able to fight back against proper logic or anything.

re: #65 Gus 802

Yeah. That's why I said "I remember that alert -- I posted it." Hope that was clear. :)

Gus please excuse me. The connection between my brain and my eyes doesn't always work :)
Well sometimes...
But not always...

re: #77 The Curmudgeon

Damn. Why didn't I think of that?

But not totally immune. As I talked to Johnson in his office, an alert flashed on one of his two giant computer monitors. An angry screed targeting him on another website concluded: “I think a visit to Mr. Johnson’s home might be warranted. Anybody got his address?”

OK - I understand allowing a reporter into the Nitrogen Filled Chamber despite the risks. But letting them see the OmniTron?

re: #78 thedopefishlives

lol - good point. But, in general, I don't like having a battle of the wits with an unarmed person.

re: #76 rwdflynavy

in bed

Well I nevah!
Where is Mandy!

re: #83 Blueheron

Well I nevah!
Where is Mandy!

That's not what I hoid./groucho

re: #53 kozmocostello

You finally got what you wanted Charles - the approval of the mainstream media.

Wtf do you know about what he wanted? Weak, weak flounce attempt. Try again, with feeling this time!

re: #66 The Sanity Inspector

Commie.
/

It's a shame kids today just don't get that joke.

re: #82 SasyMomaCat

lol - good point. But, in general, I don't like having a battle of the wits with an unarmed person.

It's never a good thing to bring a knife to a gun fight.

re: #81 karmic_inquisitor

OK - I understand allowing a reporter into the Nitrogen Filled Chamber despite the risks. But letting them see the OmniTron?

I'm surprised the reporter saw anything beyond the glory of the "Ponytail Kitteh"...

re: #53 kozmocostello

IIRC, rathergate and the "removing smoke" fauxtography scandal both made it into the MSM, complete with television interviews.

Nice try tho.

I am new here, and joined up specifically after reading Mr. Johnson's explanation for his split with the right. My understanding is he is still of a conservative mindset and agrees with questioning authority, however there is a way to go about doing so without all the unnecessary garbage. I did not vote for Bush, but because he was POTUS I supported him when I agreed with him and respectfully disagreed with him the rest of the 8 years he was in office. I had my children watch his addresses to the people as my father did.

I likewise support Obama, who I did vote for, though I want to hear people logically question him as they should have questioned Bush. I am no kool-aid drinking follower and believe we as Americans need to communicate via blogs in order to share real information not filtered by the far left or the far right.

re: #87 thedopefishlives

heh, unless you're the Punisher . . .

re: #87 thedopefishlives

It's never a good thing to bring a knife to a gun fight.

plan B

re: #91 SasyMomaCat

heh, unless you're the Punisher . . .

Of course, my comparison was hardly accurate. Trolls on LGF would be like a guy in a wheelchair against Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson or something.

re: #90 American-African

Welcome. You will find that Charles doesn't nicely fit in any preconceived pigeon holes. I would say he is less conservative than I, but most people are ; )

re: #93 thedopefishlives

true, that!

re: #90 American-African

Gosh! What a first post!

What's up, AA?

re: #34 Ojoe

I bet they will temporarily love you at the LAT, Charles.

If it manages to get more people looking at the site who are for social freedoms as well as political freedoms (especially for others, like Iraqis and Afghans) then the work is done, IMO.

re: #69 Gus 802

OT

Tim Blair of the Daily Telegraph is an idiot.

Full stop.

Yeah, I see he's attacking again.

The LAT should release that video. IMO It is a stain on them that they don't.

re: #90 American-African

I am new here, and joined up specifically after reading Mr. Johnson's explanation for his split with the right. My understanding is he is still of a conservative mindset and agrees with questioning authority, however there is a way to go about doing so without all the unnecessary garbage. I did not vote for Bush, but because he was POTUS I supported him when I agreed with him and respectfully disagreed with him the rest of the 8 years he was in office. I had my children watch his addresses to the people as my father did.

I likewise support Obama, who I did vote for, though I want to hear people logically question him as they should have questioned Bush. I am no kool-aid drinking follower and believe we as Americans need to communicate via blogs in order to share real information not filtered by the far left or the far right.

RINO!

/ (unofficial sarcastic message of welcome)

re: #98 Charles

Yeah, I see he's attacking again.

Yep. Was checking the referrers and clicked on the link. He's another troglodyte knuckle dragger.

re: #90 American-African

good to have you!

re: #102 SasyMomaCat

good to have you!

Megadittos!

Wait, what?

re: #90 American-African

We can always use more people like you. Political affiliation matters less than having your head screwed on straight.

Really sweet! Charles, you rock!

By the way, there's also an article today in the Danish weekly Weekendavisen, on my split with the so-called "anti-jihad" bloggers, focusing on one of the Danish extremists those people now associate with, Lars Hedegaard.

I don't think the article is available online, unfortunately.

re: #106 Charles

By the way, there's also an article today in the Danish weekly Weekendavisen, on my split with the so-called "anti-jihad" bloggers, focusing on one of the Danish extremists those people now associate with, Lars Hedegaard.

I don't think the article is available online, unfortunately.

My, you're becoming a popular fellow these days. Don't let it go to your head.

/Who am I kidding, we all know you run the media anyway, so it's not like you need the attention

Cartoonist gets death threats

The death threats keep coming this fine morning. I guess the Tea Party crew is determined to have “death panels” one way or another. The dustup started because of this cartoon:
[Link: www.youtube.com...]

...
Of course discussion on the web is not known for its civility, but it finally dawned on me the strangeness of receiving death threats at the same time a crazed Somali extremist tried to kill cartoonist Kurt Westergaard.

Muslim extremist, meet Tea Party extremist. Tea Party extremist, meet Muslim extremist.

Rudy Giuliani: "We Had No Domestic Attacks Under Bush; We've Had One Under Obama."

Is it wrong to expect people to remember that we actually did have a pretty big domestic attack under Bush? Why the insistence on rewriting history?

re: #90 American-African

Welcome. You are off to a good start. I like your name, first things first. If that was your thinking with it?

re: #106 Charles

What is their approach? (are they applauding your rational and reasoned stance or having a conniption that you dare call things as they are?)

re: #90 American-African

Welcome

re: #103 Mad Al-Jaffee

Megadittos!

Wait, what?

pass the ketchup?

re: #90 American-African

Hi...

re: #108 Killgore Trout

Extremists and radicals are the enemies of freedom-loving people everywhere.

re: #111 SasyMomaCat

What is their approach? (are they applauding your rational and reasoned stance or having a conniption that you dare call things as they are?)

I don't think the article is very positive toward Lars Hedegaard, but it's in Danish so I haven't read it yet! I have a PDF copy that I'm going to try to translate with Google's tools in a little while.

re: #116 Charles

Cool - glad to hear you getting (hopefully) positive press over there!

re: #99 Buck

The LAT should release that video. IMO It is a stain on them that they don't.

I think the questions that the video would have raised are answered at this point. I don't think anything of value can be gained from the video, but they should have released it.

re: #106 Charles

By the way, there's also an article today in the Danish weekly Weekendavisen, on my split with the so-called "anti-jihad" bloggers, focusing on one of the Danish extremists those people now associate with, Lars Hedegaard.

I don't think the article is available online, unfortunately.

Is this it?

Kendt islamkritiker undsiger Lars Hedegaard: Han er ekstremist ...

Translation

Just read the Blair comments.

The mind hive has rules - there is an orthodoxy and all tenets must be maintained or you are out. So false charges have to be trumped up to justify and reinforce past actions and reinforce the mind hive discipline.

Perhaps with the LAT traffic today will serve as a good opportunity to kick the mindhive and vivisect the false claim of victimhood by InstaPundit.

Owing to the facts that Reynolds is (1) a law professor and (2) posts in a fragmentary / staccato style, the onus for timely clarity is with him, and his original post of the shoeshine picture with the context he presented did not imply disapproval of the picture but rather defense of the Democrat who circulated it. That he comes along later with a "oh yeah, it is kinda racist but I was commenting on other stuff" is a bit lame for a guy of his experience and training. To then insist on a timely retraction and create a faux controversy out of that has one questioning what one might learn in Reynold's law classes.

re: #108 Killgore Trout

Cartoonist gets death threats

Fabulous article.

re: #90 American-African

I am new here, and joined up specifically after reading Mr. Johnson's explanation for his split with the right. My understanding is he is still of a conservative mindset and agrees with questioning authority, however there is a way to go about doing so without all the unnecessary garbage. I did not vote for Bush, but because he was POTUS I supported him when I agreed with him and respectfully disagreed with him the rest of the 8 years he was in office. I had my children watch his addresses to the people as my father did.

I likewise support Obama, who I did vote for, though I want to hear people logically question him as they should have questioned Bush. I am no kool-aid drinking follower and believe we as Americans need to communicate via blogs in order to share real information not filtered by the far left or the far right.

Hello! Welcome! Nice to have ya :)

re: #109 JasonA

More sloppiness. Didn't expect that of Giuliani.

re: #90 American-African

Seriously. I think I love this guy...

re: #124 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Seriously. I think I love this guy...

Easy big fella!

re: #109 JasonA

Rudy Giuliani: "We Had No Domestic Attacks Under Bush; We've Had One Under Obama."

Is it wrong to expect people to remember that we actually did have a pretty big domestic attack under Bush? Why the insistence on rewriting history?

Fill in some context. We were blind-sided before; we can claim no such thing now.

re: #123 abolitionist

I don't think it's sloppy, nor careless. I think that today, all terrorism talk has a line of demarcation. 9/10 - 9/11.

It should be from before, but it is not. I'm guessing "before 9/11" is just unspoken.

I'm not excusing anything, I just think it is the thought process.

bad karma! somebody ding me! quick!

re: #126 cliffster

Fill in some context. We were blind-sided before; we can claim no such thing now.

That being said, the fundamental mistake Giuliani made was attributing to the President the total security of the nation. Presidential policies may make us inherently more or less safe, but actually stopping terrorist attacks is the purview of the intelligence and law enforcement agencies and their personnel on the ground.

re: #128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

bad karma! somebody ding me! quick!

in bed!

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I agree. That's what he meant. Wish he'd been slightly more verbose.

Thanks Buck. That was beginning to burn.

re: #109 JasonA

re: #123 abolitionist

More sloppiness. Didn't expect that of Giuliani.

This was discussed in the last thread. He (Giuliani), though not totally accurate was (as usual) talking post 9/11

re: #129 thedopefishlives

And somebody's gonna get through too.

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't think it's sloppy, nor careless. I think that today, all terrorism talk has a line of demarcation. 9/10 - 9/11.

It should be from before, but it is not. I'm guessing "before 9/11" is just unspoken.

I'm not excusing anything, I just think it is the thought process.

just a reminder the 9/11 was the 2nd attack on the WTC...

re: #126 cliffster

Fill in some context. We were blind-sided before; we can claim no such thing now.

Richard Reid
Adam Gadhan

re: #135 brookly red

just a reminder the 9/11 was the 2nd attack on the WTC...

Yep. Like I said, "It should be from before, but it is not."

re: #132 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks Buck. That was beginning to burn.

in bed?

re: #126 cliffster

Fill in some context. We were blind-sided before; we can claim no such thing now.

Agreed, and I'll give Rudy the "post 9/11" as implied, but if the Pantybomber counts as a terrorist attack than so does Richard Reid.

re: #109 JasonA

Rudy Giuliani: "We Had No Domestic Attacks Under Bush; We've Had One Under Obama."

Is it wrong to expect people to remember that we actually did have a pretty big domestic attack under Bush? Why the insistence on rewriting history?

Sure, and he is wrong on both counts. We have had two in as many months under Obama.

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm taking this one upstairs.

You feeling ok, FBV??? ^_^
///

re: #129 thedopefishlives

That being said, the fundamental mistake Giuliani made was attributing to the President the total security of the nation. Presidential policies may make us inherently more or less safe, but actually stopping terrorist attacks is the purview of the intelligence and law enforcement agencies and their personnel on the ground.

It's not really a Giuliani mistake, it's a mistake of the insane mode the country is in. People are all-in on their party, and they argue about their party like they're arguing about their home football team. If anything bad happens in the country, at all, the screeching comes from the opposing side. For good things, people fall over themselves trying to attribute it to the masterful leadership of their guy.

re: #126 cliffster

Fill in some context. We were blind-sided before; we can claim no such thing now.

I agree. It is kind of like saying we haven't been attacked since Pearl Harbor and someone saying, yeah, but what about Pearl Harbor!

re: #132 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks Buck. That was beginning to burn.

No prob. But next time specify up or down... I had to guess.

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't think it's sloppy, nor careless. I think that today, all terrorism talk has a line of demarcation. 9/10 - 9/11.

It should be from before, but it is not. I'm guessing "before 9/11" is just unspoken.

I'm not excusing anything, I just think it is the thought process.

Seems to me that Guiliani's comment was 100% politicizing terrorism into who is a worse president Bush or Obama. Well Obama must be worse if there were no attacks U.S. interests since 9/11, except that's a big ole fat lie.

re: #139 Girth

Agreed, and I'll give Rudy the "post 9/11" as implied, but if the Pantybomber counts as a terrorist attack than so does Richard Reid.

Yup.

re: #143 cliffster

It's not really a Giuliani mistake, it's a mistake of the insane mode the country is in. People are all-in on their party, and they argue about their party like they're arguing about their home football team. If anything bad happens in the country, at all, the screeching comes from the opposing side. For good things, people fall over themselves trying to attribute it to the masterful leadership of their guy.

I agree, that is certainly part of it.

As I have been gone for a few months, I had missed the transition from national security, as a primary focus, to political. I poised a question, a day or to ago, as to what happened, and was deleted. To my pleasant surprise, I was not banished. As a independent political junkie, and one who does not like vitriol, and name calling in political debate (but loves the arguments), the change does not bother me in the least. The exchange of ideas freely and, hopefully well thought out, is the cornerstone which makes our country great. I usually stay silent, but attend faithfully to this site, as I enjoy the the discourse, most of the time, and will continue to do so in the future when I am able. Thanks for not bouncing my butt off here Charles, I probably won't agree with most of your postings, but will read them and try not to disagree to vocally, but if I do, it will be with respect and tempered reason.

re: #119 Gus 802

Is this it?

Kendt islamkritiker undsiger Lars Hedegaard: Han er ekstremist ...

Translation

That's a quote from the article -- the full article's quite a bit longer, and mentions some of the other US bloggers who are associating with Hedegaard. (Including the shrieking harpy.)

re: #151 Charles

That's a quote from the article -- the full article's quite a bit longer, and mentions some of the other US bloggers who are associating with Hedegaard. (Including the shrieking harpy.)

Thought that might be the case. Would be good to get that scanned and put into PDF form or a web page(s).

Well we will see how "balanced" my perspective on Obama and domestic security is -

I think his position on domestic security has changed as he has learned more facts and gained more experience. That is commendable. I frankly did not expect it as I had no basis for assuming he would change prior to his election. This is a contrast to the actions of partisans such as Pelosi who will simply ignore changes in the landscape and insist on a narrative that justifies her ambitions.

He has kept most of the policy changes in place that Bush adopted after 9/11. There are some subtle changes, but we will see in the coming months what gets changed further given recent incidents.

One change that I think is clearly underway is the PR angle: as an article of faith many anti-war liberals insist that one must de-polarize a confict and understand the enemy's grievances to effect and environment in which a negotiated peace can be worked out. Underlying this is an assumption that all nations and cultures act in a rational self interest and wish to further the peaceful betterment of their society.

Such, IMO, motivated the "Muslim world" speech in Egypt, the "clenched fist" imagery in the inauguration address, and a subdued/non-accusatory response to the Ft. Hood shootings (where faith as motive was not mentioned nor tied to the overall war). These efforts have borne no tangible fruit and I think they are being abandoned.

His last two public statements show a shift of being precise and specific about the motives of our enemy and how we must deal with them and also change what we are doing as they change their methods.

Point being that I am not faulting Obama for the panty bomber or Fort Hood and I am happy that he accepts his responsibility for maintaining security and seems focused on what produces results rather than what pleases some ears.

re: #110 Rightwingconspirator

That was deliberate, my friend. I will always be an American first.

And thank you all for the most gracious welcome. Not RINO, though. I stopped claiming party affiliation a long time ago. Call me a MOderate Conservative Indepubocrat.

re: #149 wrenchwench

The first one says that people are so afraid of being associated with anything on the right due to pc worries that they will denounce their allies as "radical right", that's basically german for like neo-nazi, but not necessarily having anything to do with Hitler (or even jews). That's what he calls the LGF Syndrom. It's not the kind of site you want to link to on this blog, and neither are the other two. The second just agrees. The third is a bit more difficult, he claims he went through something similar to Charles development, calls the other two unsavory, and then he adds that it's not feasible to deport all Muslims, so one should just stop or discourage all further immigration, try to destroy their culture (but cleverly! he repeatedly states that storming prayer sessions might not be very effective.) and for all the right people to have more children. You might even want to self-report this.

Huffpo weighs in.

Much cognitive dissonance in the comments. Very interesting as they debate whether leftists are capable of threatening people (mind hive says "no" while brave minority says GMAFB).

re: #155 suchislife

The first one says that people are so afraid of being associated with anything on the right due to pc worries that they will denounce their allies as "radical right", that's basically german for like neo-nazi, but not necessarily having anything to do with Hitler (or even jews). That's what he calls the LGF Syndrom. It's not the kind of site you want to link to on this blog, and neither are the other two. The second just agrees. The third is a bit more difficult, he claims he went through something similar to Charles development, calls the other two unsavory, and then he adds that it's not feasible to deport all Muslims, so one should just stop or discourage all further immigration, try to destroy their culture (but cleverly! he repeatedly states that storming prayer sessions might not be very effective.) and for all the right people to have more children. You might even want to self-report this.

That bad, huh? That'll teach me to link to stuff I can't read! Thanks for the heads up!

re: #157 wrenchwench

Glad I could help!

re: #106 Charles

It's possible to get a temporary trial registration at Weekendavisen and to read the newspaper online. Need to know Danish to have any use for that, of course.

re: #158 suchislife

Glad I could help!

You are fluent in German and English? Any other languages?

re: #128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

bad karma! somebody ding me! quick!

What you talking about Willis?

re: #154 American-African

I was told the proper term for that was "Indecisive Fence-Sitter". ;)

/

re: #160 wrenchwench

French, but I don't use that enough, so it's not active. I did two weeks of Italian once, in Italy, that's the easiest language ever! it was so much fun. Then, pumped up about my mad language learning skillz, I tried Turkish. After 3 weeks, I still made mistakes when trying to say hello, how are you. No exaggeration. When I got more into it, I had the strangest feeling that I could actually perceive my neural pathways rearranging themselves, it was so different from what I knew. I stopped it after a few months, because didn't have the time anymore, but it was also great fun, though nothing like my experience with Italian.

re: #162 oaktree

I was told the proper term for that was "Indecisive Fence-Sitter". ;)

/

Mugwump is a gooden' :)

re: #162 oaktree

Nice! Guess the honeymoon is over, huh? ;-)

Charles:

I'm of two minds about this praise the media has for your statement about the right.

ON the one hand, I'm happy for any positive coverage that you get, and agree with everything you wrote.

ON the other hand, I also wonder if the media's newfound attention is an attempt at self-justification. The fact is that you were one of their most consistent, and effective, critics during the Bush years. You consistently called bullshit on some of their most egregious coverage, especially during the Israel - Hezbollah war. The New York Times bloggers used to lump you in with the most hateful right wingers, and the left would frequently call you a Nazi.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the next war in the middle east breaks out.

The Weekendavisen-article tells its readers how both Geller and Spencer pointed to Charles as an inspiration, and then details the conflict from the Brussels "anti-jihad" conference in 2007 and until today; comparing it with a rising conflict within the Danish "anti-jihadist" camp, between the liberals, such as Ole Birk Andersen, and Lars Hedegaards "Press Freedom Association" (Hedegaard is a Vlaams Belang ally).

There's also quite a bit about Bruce Bawer, who's disappointed with Hedegaard. The title of the article is: "- They have all gone nuts.", quoting Charles. It's not every day I agree with Bawer (his description of Europe is made up of anecdotes blown out of proportion, in my opinion) but in this article he notes something I agree fully with:

- When writers who present themselves as heroes of freedom start having fun together with pure anti-liberal parties such as the Vlaams Belang, something completely wrong and bad is going on.

Translations from Danish by yours truly, so take it with a grain of salt, and please note that "liberal" is doubtlessly used in the European meaning here.

re: #153 karmic_inquisitor

Well we will see how "balanced" my perspective on Obama and domestic security is -

I think his position on domestic security has changed as he has learned more facts and gained more experience. That is commendable. I frankly did not expect it as I had no basis for assuming he would change prior to his election. This is a contrast to the actions of partisans such as Pelosi who will simply ignore changes in the landscape and insist on a narrative that justifies her ambitions.

He has kept most of the policy changes in place that Bush adopted after 9/11. There are some subtle changes, but we will see in the coming months what gets changed further given recent incidents.

One change that I think is clearly underway is the PR angle: as an article of faith many anti-war liberals insist that one must de-polarize a confict and understand the enemy's grievances to effect and environment in which a negotiated peace can be worked out. Underlying this is an assumption that all nations and cultures act in a rational self interest and wish to further the peaceful betterment of their society.

Such, IMO, motivated the "Muslim world" speech in Egypt, the "clenched fist" imagery in the inauguration address, and a subdued/non-accusatory response to the Ft. Hood shootings (where faith as motive was not mentioned nor tied to the overall war). These efforts have borne no tangible fruit and I think they are being abandoned.

His last two public statements show a shift of being precise and specific about the motives of our enemy and how we must deal with them and also change what we are doing as they change their methods.

Point being that I am not faulting Obama for the panty bomber or Fort Hood and I am happy that he accepts his responsibility for maintaining security and seems focused on what produces results rather than what pleases some ears.

Trouble is, the Somali pirates are in fact acting in their own rational self interest. They won't be getting plush jobs anywhere. Work is either dangerous or dirty or both. As dangerous dirty jobs go, pirate is at least exciting and there is a chance of outsized rewards.

The only thing we can do to change this equation is to reduce the chance of such rewards by hardening our targets, and increase the level of danger to the pirates by including some Q-ships in the mix. When they attack a fake merchant ship that's actually a warship, kill them invite them to surrender, and if they do, take them to a nice quiet courthouse in the States where they can await trial. When the crew that captured them is unavailable after the fifth rescheduling of the trial, let them go. Inside the U.S. If they won't surrender, give them enough fuel and water to make it back to port, on the off chance that they won't encounter an easier target after the Q-ship has moved on.

On second thought, let's not bother with Q-ships. Enjoy your day, Mr. Pirate.

re: #90 American-African

I am new here, and joined up specifically after reading Mr. Johnson's explanation for his split with the right. My understanding is he is still of a conservative mindset and agrees with questioning authority, however there is a way to go about doing so without all the unnecessary garbage. I did not vote for Bush, but because he was POTUS I supported him when I agreed with him and respectfully disagreed with him the rest of the 8 years he was in office. I had my children watch his addresses to the people as my father did.

I likewise support Obama, who I did vote for, though I want to hear people logically question him as they should have questioned Bush. I am no kool-aid drinking follower and believe we as Americans need to communicate via blogs in order to share real information not filtered by the far left or the far right.

Here, here...I support the President of the United States, whoever it is and no matter what political party they are a member of, but I'm no yes man and I expect them make the best effort they can to govern the nation.

I liked President Bush personally and disagreed with more than a few of his policies, but the same went for President Clinton and goes for President Obama...we the people just have to keep them as honest as possible and attempt to make sure that they govern for all Americans, not just their "base".

Wow. To me that seems like some serious software. Maybe Charles could sell a batch or two to Homeland Security. I'm serious.

And aren't threats like the one mentioned against some law, somewhere?

re: #169 talon_262

we the people just have to keep them as honest as possible and attempt to make sure that they govern for all Americans, not just their "base".

Seldom are truer words written. I cannot tell you how refreshing it is to read some of the dialogue here. I have been scouring the net looking for a venue just like this one, and most are polluted with insults and vitriol. Ideas simply cannot be exchanged that way.

re: #166 davesax

Charles:

I'm of two minds about this praise the media has for your statement about the right.

ON the one hand, I'm happy for any positive coverage that you get, and agree with everything you wrote.

ON the other hand, I also wonder if the media's newfound attention is an attempt at self-justification. The fact is that you were one of their most consistent, and effective, critics during the Bush years. You consistently called bullshit on some of their most egregious coverage, especially during the Israel - Hezbollah war. The New York Times bloggers used to lump you in with the most hateful right wingers, and the left would frequently call you a Nazi.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the next war in the middle east breaks out.

When? Not if? Yeah, I guess it is "when." Hezbollah's been building up arms again for quite a while. But things have been relatively quiet lately.

re: #170 Bob Levin

Wow. To me that seems like some serious software. Maybe Charles could sell a batch or two to Homeland Security. I'm serious.

And aren't threats like the one mentioned against some law, somewhere?

That comment remains posted at Ryan Mauro's blog at David Horowitz's site:

[Link: www.newsrealblog.com...]

re: #172 Charles

Yeah, I hate to say it...but I think it's "when". Of course, I know no more than you...but from what I've been reading in the Israeli press, it's "when".