Reid Apologizes for ‘Negro Dialect’ Comment

Mark Halperin and John Heilemann’s new book “Game Change: Obama and the Clintons, McCain and Palin, and the Race of a Lifetime,” is making plenty of waves in Washington; today Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid apologized for remarks cited in the book, describing then-candidate Barack Obama as “light-skinned … with no Negro dialect unless he wanted to have one.

Journalists Mark Halperin and John Heilemann reported the remarks in their new book “Game Change,” which was purchased by CNN Saturday at a Washington-area bookstore. The book is slated for official release next Tuesday.

“He (Reid) was wowed by Obama’s oratorical gifts and believed that the country was ready to embrace a black presidential candidate, especially one such as Obama - a ‘light-skinned’ African American ‘with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one,’ as he said privately. Reid was convinced, in fact, that Obama’s race would help him more than hurt him in a bid for the Democratic nomination,” they write.

“I deeply regret using such a poor choice of words,” Reid said in a statement to CNN.

In his Saturday statement, Reid said he apologized “for offending any and all Americans, especially African Americans for my improper comments. …

In a statement released by the White House, the president accepted Reid’s apology: “Harry Reid called me today and apologized for an unfortunate comment reported today. I accepted Harry’s apology without question because I’ve known him for years, I’ve seen the passionate leadership he’s shown on issues of social justice and I know what’s in his heart. As far as I am concerned, the book is closed.”

Jump to bottom

220 comments
1 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:07:50pm

Looks like there's gonna be a new senate leader next January, one way or the other....

2 Boondock St. Bender  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:09:28pm

Engage brain before engaging mouth...things like the above won't happen.

3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:09:34pm

I'm not sure it was a racist statement that he made.

Perhaps we should get Mitt or Rudy or Newt or Rush or Glenn to say the exact same thing and see what the reaction is before we determine whether it was a racist statement.

Then, we would truly know.

4 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:10:43pm

re: #1 Taqyia2Me

Be careful what you wish for, we democrats may be able to find a senate majority leader who knows how to actually get portions of a liberal agenda passed when there are only 40 conservative senators to oppose him.


I'm not saying it's likely, but it could happen....

5 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:12:06pm
6 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:12:50pm

re: #4 jamesfirecat

Heh heh, not necessarily wishing for that, I'm just thinking the Chicago Way dictates there's a price to be paid for slip-ups.

7 MJ  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:13:33pm

More here:

The Juiciest Revelations In "Game Change"

"Game Change," the long-awaited and very gossipy chronicle of the 2008 campaign by journalists John Heilemann and Mark Halperin, is chock full of revelations that are bound to stir the folks who live within ten miles of the Beltway -- and perhaps even reverberate beyond Washington.


[Link: politics.theatlantic.com...]

The Edwards take another major hit, especially Elizabeth:

...And John and Elizabeth (who the book says was known to Edwards insiders as "abusive, intrusive, paranoid, condescending, crazywoman") fought, in front of staffers, about the affair. The authors describe a moment where Elizabeth, in a such a state of fury, deliberately tears her blouse in the parking lot of a Raleigh airport terminal, "exposing herself. 'Look at me," she wailed at John and then staggered, nearly falling to the ground." (That's page 142.) (This was in October, by the way, well before the media took the reports of the Hunter affair seriously.)..

8 Linden Arden  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:14:30pm

Kind of like Biden's "articulate black man" comment. Apparently, Obama was not the least bit offended.

Biden, Gates, Jones, Clinton, Geithner, etc.

Didn't Glenn Beck say Obama was a racist who had a "deep seated hatred of white people"?

Obama has a funny way of showing it.

Beck wouldn't make shit up, would he?

//

9 PaxAmericana  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:17:04pm

If Limbaugh had said this, no one on the right would have noticed or cared.

10 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:17:48pm

Oh, by the way. Who the hell says "Negro" any more?

(with the exception of the UNCF folks)

11 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:18:07pm

re: #3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It was racist, and I do realize your post is sarcasm, but I"m replying for those who don't know you. In some ways "soft racism" like Reid exhibited is worse than outright racism in that outright racists are honest about their false assumptions that blacks are somehow "lesser". Soft racism such as Reid exhibited professes not to be racist. It's a highly patronizing statement, and I can see why he's back-peddling vigorously.

In other news he hit an all time low in polls in NV.

12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:18:17pm

re: #9 PaxAmericana

I call bullshit on that.

13 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:19:37pm

re: #9 PaxAmericana

If Limbaugh had said this, no one on the right would have noticed or cared.

and there wouldn't have been an apology either.

14 Opal  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:20:22pm

re: #8 Linden Arden


**Kind of like Biden's "articulate black man" comment. Apparently, Obama was not the least bit offended.**

Some people are more quickly and easily offended than others. I would imagine that after awhile, a politician would just let thoughtless comments roll off his back. That said, later in the CNN article linked above, it seems that the RNC is hopping on this as an opening for them to exploit:

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]


(snip)

Update: Republicans called on Democratic lawmakers and candidates Saturday to condemn Reid's original remarks. “For those who hope to one day live in a color-blind nation it appears Harry Reid is more than a few steps behind them," National Republican Senatorial Committee communication director Brian Walsh said in a statement.

"Unfortunately, this is just the latest in a long history of embarrassing and controversial remarks by the senior Senator from Nevada. He always shares exactly what’s on his mind with little regard to perception or consequences, and it’s one of the reasons he is the most vulnerable incumbent Senator in either party facing re-election.

“Nevada deserves better from its leaders and this November, voters in the Silver State will have an opportunity to elect a new Senator who will put their views and values first and foremost. In the meantime, we hope Reid’s fellow Democrats in the Senate and on the campaign trail will stand up and rightly condemn these racially insensitive remarks by their elected leader.”>>>

15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:20:33pm

re: #12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hit "post" sooner than I meant to. I am on the right and I would've been out of my mind furious.

16 avanti  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:20:39pm

You may be correct in thinking a light skinned black that speaks with eloquence is more electable than a dark skinned one that does not, but you don't say it aloud.

17 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:20:53pm

re: #6 Taqyia2Me

Yeah probably the same way he made Joe Biden pay for saying

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”


So in conclusion Obama/Reid in 2012!

18 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:21:30pm

I think what this shows, more than Reid's racism, is his casual contempt for voters -- even Democratic voters -- since he's assuming that Obama's ability to "speak white" is going to influence them.

19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:23:36pm

I am in a hotel lobby... I am hearing a country version of Dire Straits, "Walk of Life".

I swear, "Cats and dogs living together. Mass hysteria."

We are in the end of times.

20 generalsparky  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:23:45pm

re: #9 PaxAmericana

If Limbaugh had said this, no one on the right would have noticed or cared.

Well, I know you are wrong. I am most definitely on the right and I think racism of any kind is wrong, and I don't care who is trying to peddle it.

21 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:23:47pm

re: #18 Charles

I think what this shows, more than Reid's racism, is his casual contempt for voters -- even Democratic voters -- since he's assuming that Obama's ability to "speak white" is going to influence them.

Bingo, on Reid's assumptions about the "realpolitik" within his party

22 SteveC  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:23:57pm

re: #6 Taqyia2Me

Heh heh, not necessarily wishing for that, I'm just thinking the Chicago Way dictates there's a price to be paid for slip-ups.

"You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. *That's* the *Chicago* way! And that's how you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that? I'm offering you a deal. Do you want this deal?"

23 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:24:39pm

re: #22 SteveC

"You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. *That's* the *Chicago* way! And that's how you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that? I'm offering you a deal. Do you want this deal?"

Thank you Sean!

24 Gus  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:25:37pm

I see three things here that raise my eyebrows, a) "light skinned"; b) archaic Jim Crow era noun; and c) and the final observation that Obama only uses that "dialect unless he wanted to have one.”

25 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:25:39pm

re: #22 SteveC

Jim Malone ding.

26 SteveC  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:26:12pm

re: #23 sattv4u2

Thank you Sean!

Don't encourage him, Q!

27 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:27:14pm

How long before this remark is blamed on Reid being a Mormon?

28 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:27:56pm

re: #26 SteveC

Don't encourage him, Q!

Meant Connery, not Hannity!

29 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:27:58pm

re: #27 sattv4u2


To quote the Daily Show,

Where my Sons of Ham at?

30 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:29:57pm

re: #24 Gus 802

I see three things here that raise my eyebrows, a) "light skinned"; b) archaic Jim Crow era noun; and c) and the final observation that Obama only uses that "dialect unless he wanted to have one.”

It certainly does display a certain amount of cynicism on how one of the leaders of the Democrats thinks about the black vote. This attitude was also evident in Al Gore and Hillary Clinton speeches before black groups. It's as sickening in its own way as the current Republican tendency towards "Populist speak".

31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:30:50pm

re: #30 Thanos

"I am in no ways tarrred. I have come too farrr."

*spit*

32 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:32:18pm

re: #29 jamesfirecat

To quote the Daily Show,

Where my Sons of Ham at?

To quote Emily Litella ,,

"nevermind"

33 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:35:09pm

re: #31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A Reverend Cleveland fan

34 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:39:22pm

More juicy stuff from the book Hillary vs. Obama:

[Link: politics.theatlantic.com...]

35 captdiggs  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:43:18pm

re: #1 Taqyia2Me

Looks like there's gonna be a new senate leader next January, one way or the other...

Reid's toast.

36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:43:51pm

Can't get these quotes from "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" out of my pea brain. Homer Stokes is running for Governor...

The color guard is colored!

These boys is not white! These boys is not white! These boys is miscegenated! Hell, they ain't even old timey!

This band of miscreants, this very evening, interfered with a lynch mob in the performance of its duty.

Those boys desecrated a burning cross!

[as Grand Kleagle at a KKK rally] Brothers! Oh, brothers! We have all gathered here, to preserve our hallowed culture and heritage! We aim to pull evil up by the root, before it chokes out the flower of our culture and heritage! And our women, let's not forget those ladies, y'all. Looking to us for protection! From darkies, from Jews, from papists, and from all those smart-ass folks say we come descended from monkeys!

And so, we gonna hang us a negro!

Damn. Harry could've played this guy.

37 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:44:06pm

OT

Jets 13 / Bengals 7

(Jets setting up for extra point)

38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:46:39pm

re: #37 sattv4u2

I've been bitching saying the Jets didn't belong. I guess they do.

39 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:47:43pm

This quote is going to make for some interesting ads in the Nevada race November...

40 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:49:11pm

At least he didn't say anything about being 'Wesley Snipes' black....

41 SteveC  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:49:12pm
The book is slated for official release next Tuesday.

Well, I think I just found my reading material for my flight to Florida next month! (If the airline lets me read!)

re: #36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can't get these quotes from "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" out of my pea brain.

How about, in reference to Harry, Nancy, Barak, and the entire Democratic crew: "You boys are as dumb as a bag of hammers."

42 elizajane  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:49:19pm

re: #18 Charles

Goodness--do you think he is wrong about that? I don't. Reid is right too about the "unless he wanted to have one" comment. Anybody who moves successfully between two cultures knows how to change their accent: this holds too for certain Southern politicians who attended Ivy League schools and who cultivate a "southern" voice when in the South and "New England" one on other occasions. If Obama had been unable to speak standard American English with a standard accent, you don't think people would have been put off?

43 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:50:30pm

Keep it classy Harry.
Keep it classy.

sheesh.

44 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:51:15pm

The comment seems to indicate that Reid believes a dark-skinned African American with a dialect would somehow be offensive.

Being a dark-skinned caucasian with a dialect, I take offense at dark-skinicism and dialecticism!

45 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:52:17pm

re: #36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is you is, or is you ain't, my constituency?

46 Big Steve  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:52:25pm

re: #42 elizajane

Anybody who moves successfully between two cultures knows how to change their accent


I for one, refuse to speak Texan, even though I have lived her 30 years. With that I am fixin to go back to watching the game.

47 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:52:26pm

re: #42 elizajane

True enough. I can turn my southern accent off and on like a switch. It comes out oj its own when I'm around other people with thick accents but mostly I'm cognizant over it.

48 SteveC  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:53:11pm

re: #47 Conservative Moonbat

True enough. I can turn my southern accent off and on like a switch. It comes out oj its own when I'm around other people with thick accents but mostly I'm cognizant over it.

That's not the issue Delmar. Even if that did put you square with the Lord, the State of Mississippi's a little more hard-nosed.

49 RogueOne  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:53:36pm

re: #38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've been bitching saying the Jets didn't belong. I guess they do.

Neither of these teams belong. There really are only 2 good teams in the AFC this year.

50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:54:03pm

re: #49 RogueOne

And they are...?

51 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:54:18pm

re: #42 elizajane

this holds too for certain Southern politicians who attended Ivy League schools and who cultivate a "southern" voice when in the South and "New England" one on other occasions.

Does one name rhyme with "bore"?

52 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:54:48pm

OT and sorry for posting a DKos story here but this is too outrageous.

Dr. Tiller's Murder could be out in five years.

53 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:55:15pm

re: #14 Opal

Though I am inclined to agree with his criticism of Reid, I can only laugh at this:

Republicans called on Democratic lawmakers and candidates Saturday to condemn Reid's original remarks. “For those who hope to one day live in a color-blind nation it appears Harry Reid is more than a few steps behind them," National Republican Senatorial Committee communication director Brian Walsh said in a statement.

As a republican myself, I will take their calls for condemnation seriously when they start calling out the racist crap going on at the Tea Parties, the TP organizers, and the JBS.

54 Lidane  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:55:20pm

re: #41 SteveC

Is Steve Schmidt putting out a book as well? I think between this book and anything he puts out about the McCain campaign, I'll have my light reading for a good while.

55 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:55:20pm

re: #18 Charles

I think what this shows, more than Reid's racism, is his casual contempt for voters -- even Democratic voters -- since he's assuming that Obama's ability to "speak white" is going to influence them.

Is there any real doubt that his contempt was well founded?

56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:55:31pm

re: #51 MandyManners

Does one name rhyme with "bore"?

"How do you tell which one is Al Gore in a room full of the Secret Service? He's the stiff one."
-Al Gore

57 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:55:35pm

re: #44 reine.de.tout

The comment seems to indicate that Reid believes a dark-skinned African American with a dialect would somehow be offensive.

Being a dark-skinned caucasian with a dialect, I take offense at dark-skinicism and dialecticism!

UpDing'

How do you think I feel

dark skinned Sicilian with a Proper Boston Brahman Accent

(think Luca Brassi saying Pahk the Cah in Hahvahd Yahd!)

58 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:55:39pm

BTW: That Clinton quote from the book is just as bad in reference to Obama he said "A few years ago this guy would have been getting us coffee."

59 RogueOne  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:55:50pm

re: #50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Colts and Chargers, everyone else is mediocre and the pats aren't good without Welker. I think the NFC has the better games this year, it's kind of wide open over there.

60 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:56:10pm

re: #53 Slumbering Behemoth

Though I am inclined to agree with his criticism of Reid, I can only laugh at this:

As a republican myself, I will take their calls for condemnation seriously when they start calling out the racist crap going on at the Tea Parties, the TP organizers, and the JBS.

Have to agree there.

61 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:56:16pm

re: #58 Thanos

BTW: That Clinton quote from the book is just as bad in reference to Obama he said "A few years ago this guy would have been getting us coffee."

WHAT?

62 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:56:39pm

My interpretation of Reid's comment: "He's cool, because he's not too black, but he can be black when needed."

It's uber-crass.

63 brookly red  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:57:05pm

re: #51 MandyManners

Does one name rhyme with "bore"?

Now I can get Hill's "I ain't tired" line outta my head...

64 Lidane  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:57:17pm

re: #52 Conservative Moonbat

OT and sorry for posting a DKos story here but this is too outrageous.

Dr. Tiller's Murder could be out in five years.

I read about that over at MSNBC. Just in case folks don't want to visit DKos, here's the story:

65 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:57:17pm

re: #7 MJ

If that incident was true, where was the media to report on it? Why their silence? Did they not think that Edwards' behavior and that of his wife was not important in the public's knowledge of their character and judgment? Did no one think it important? Didn't their staffers think it important?

re: #18 Charles

I think what this shows, more than Reid's racism, is his casual contempt for voters -- even Democratic voters -- since he's assuming that Obama's ability to "speak white" is going to influence them.

Contempt is all that Reid shows to voters - on a day in and day out basis. But he's going to get a pass from all the usual suspects (Sharpton, Jackson, etc.). It's despicable, but apparently not uncommon among top white Democrats - as Bill Clinton made remarks that could be construed as racist as well:

Why Sen. Kennedy was offended about his conversation with Bill Clinton: (Page 218): "Recounting the conversation later to a friend, Teddy fumed that Clinton had said, A few years ago this guy would have been getting us coffee."

That too could also be construed as Obama being such a junior member of Congress that for him to have such a meteoric rise was just amazing (and that he did so with entrenched interests in his own party displaying such views) is remarkable.

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:57:20pm

re: #62 BigPapa

"Barack Obama. Just black enough."
-Harry Reid...

67 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:58:13pm

re: #62 BigPapa

My interpretation of Reid's comment: "He's cool, because he's not too black, but he can be black when needed."

It's uber-crass.

He's a transformer.

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:58:33pm

re: #63 brookly red

It's "tarrred".

69 okonkolo  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:58:57pm

Oh man, what a headache. In fact, I think I need to take some Excedrin RT.

70 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:59:31pm
71 brookly red  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:59:45pm

re: #67 Conservative Moonbat

He's a transformer.

/Change! into a teleprompter.

72 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 2:59:47pm

re: #58 Thanos

There are days when I as a democrat really wish that Bill Clinton would just keep his mouth shut.... then I realize that Bill Clinton keeping his mouth shut doesn't properly segue into a Lewinski joke and I go beat my head against a wall wondering why the people I want to hold in high regard for the good things they've done have to keep screwing things up so much.

About five or six head meats wall events later I realize that it doesn't mater what I want, fucking things up for yourself is all but a Democratic tradition by this point....

73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:00:38pm

re: #59 RogueOne

I kind of hate the Pats (for no real reason) but I sure cringed when I saw the replay of Welker's injury.

74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:01:15pm

re: #70 Naso Tang

"codswallop" ding.

75 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:01:20pm

re: #65 lawhawk

The Edwards incident, if it is indeed accurately reflected in the book, is actually a damning indictment of the media - more than Edwards' own actions. Why were they covering for the Edwards'? They were and continued to be gatekeepers.

76 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:01:37pm

re: #72 jamesfirecat

fucking things up for yourself is all but a Democratic POLITICIANS tradition by this point...


ftfy

it's across the board

77 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:01:50pm

re: #53 Slumbering Behemoth

As a republican myself, I will take their calls for condemnation seriously when they start calling out the racist crap going on at the Tea Parties, the TP organizers, and the JBS.

...and the republican politicians that make common cause with such organizations.

78 Ojoe  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:01:53pm

Heck it's a free country, you can assume any dialect you want. Hillary switched dialects, IIRC.

Back later y'all.

79 RogueOne  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:02:12pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm actually going to have to root for the pats tomorrow. That's gonna hurt.

80 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:02:30pm
81 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:03:06pm

re: #80 MandyManners

Delete mine, too, Charles.

82 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:03:29pm

Thanks!

83 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:05:24pm

re: #78 Ojoe

Heck it's a free country, you can assume any dialect you want. Hillary switched dialects, IIRC.

Back later y'all.

I'm gonna be really pissed off if Obama gives his next speech on the Middle East with a thick Brooklyn Jewish accent.

84 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:05:39pm

Negro? Is this 1951? What's he going to call him next, colored?

Actually, maybe it makes sense. Reid was probably in his 40's in 1951. What an ass.

Back to football.

85 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:05:39pm

re: #52 Conservative Moonbat

Oh f*** off! Isn't a manslaughter charge based around you not intending to kill the person?

(Goes to wikipedia)

Ahh okay so now I've learned about voluntary manslaughter.

(Pause)

Good luck claiming that though, in my opinion Roder's best hope is an insanity plea...

86 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:06:01pm

Biden said, "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

What about J.C. Watts? Condoleeza Rice? Michael Steele?

87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:06:02pm

re: #83 Spare O'Lake

Coached by Jackie Mason.

88 Ojoe  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:06:41pm

re: #83 Spare O'Lake

See, we need an elected National Jester (non-partisan) who gets 10 mins. on the air after every major speech, all accents OK.

BBL

89 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:06:51pm

re: #86 MandyManners

Biden said, "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

What about J.C. Watts? Condoleeza Rice? Michael Steele?

I don't find Michael Steele to be especially bright.

90 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:06:55pm

re: #84 Soap_Man

Negro? Is this 1951? What's he going to call him next, colored?

Actually, maybe it makes sense. Reid was probably in his 40's in 1951. What an ass.

Back to football.

"Negro" is an acceptable word to people of a certain generation on both sides of the "color line".

91 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:07:29pm

re: #89 Soap_Man

I don't find Michael Steele to be especially bright.

So?

92 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:08:48pm

re: #64 Lidane

Considering that the necessity defense was tossed, that's a most curious ruling and hoping to get around the Kansas court rulings on necessity. It's a way to influence the jury into doubting the charges...

93 Lidane  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:08:55pm

re: #88 Ojoe

See, we need an elected National Jester (non-partisan) who gets 10 mins. on the air after every major speech, all accents OK.

We already have two of them, only they weren't elected.

Honestly, if it wasn't for Colbert and Stewart, I'd have gone crazy during the Bush years, and I'd be in a coma now from banging my head against the wall from all the idiocy on both sides.

94 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:09:31pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

I still contend that Democrats do it better than Republicans though.

95 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:09:40pm

re: #90 MandyManners

And is still found on the census form in 2010 (but that's a discussion for another time)...

96 Ojoe  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:09:45pm

re: #90 MandyManners

That's a totally honorable word if you ask me.

Then again I've read a lot of history books so I've got a retro vocabulary, probably.

BBL again

97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:10:02pm

re: #93 Lidane

Actually, they are elected.

Via remote control. We don't watch'em? They go bye-bye.

98 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:10:08pm

Hmm. Not sure I know what to say about that, or who I offended by suggesting Reid didn't know the language of the day.

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:11:15pm

re: #98 Naso Tang

I'm sure it was in the first paragraph. "Codswallop" was good though.

100 Lidane  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:11:27pm

re: #92 lawhawk

Considering that the necessity defense was tossed, that's a most curious ruling and hoping to get around the Kansas court rulings on necessity. It's a way to influence the jury into doubting the charges...

I don't understand it myself. Then again, I'm not a lawyer and I won't pretend to know how it all works. I just found it odd that they're going to allow him to try and argue for voluntary manslaughter. It makes no sense to me.

re: #97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Actually, they are elected.

Via remote control. We don't watch'em? They go bye-bye.

Heh. Fair point. I stand corrected. :)

101 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:11:36pm

re: #85 jamesfirecat

Oh f*** off! Isn't a manslaughter charge based around you not intending to kill the person?

(Goes to wikipedia)

Ahh okay so now I've learned about voluntary manslaughter.

(Pause)

Good luck claiming that though, in my opinion Roder's best hope is an insanity plea...

It's a ridiculous part of the statute, but I suspect the burden of proof is quite high even in Kansas. My beef with this is that most terrorists think they are justified..... so under this Bin Laden in theory get manslaughter, even though it's silly to think for a moment that he would if sent before a Kansas jury.

102 SteveC  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:12:01pm

re: #86 MandyManners

Biden said, "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

What about J.C. Watts? Condoleeza Rice? Michael Steele?

They aren't Democrats, therefore they do not exist.

103 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:12:52pm

re: #88 Ojoe

I think it'd be impossible to find someone who is deeply interested in politics enough to do a job like that without being partisan. People usually get into politics because they've got a cause, or a point of view, or a plan for how America should be that they want to support.

I suggest 10 minutes of the best liberal political humorist we can find (Jon Stewart natch) and then 10 minutes of the best conservative political humorist we can find (being a filthy stinking liberal I am open to suggestions) with who goes first getting flipped around every other time for fairness sake...

104 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:12:57pm

re: #85 jamesfirecat

The Kansas statute that governs is here:

21-3403. Voluntary manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter is the intentional killing of a human being committed:

(a) Upon a sudden quarrel or in the heat of passion; or

(b) upon an unreasonable but honest belief that circumstances existed that justified deadly force under K.S.A. 21-3211, 21-3212 or 21-3213 and amendments thereto.

Voluntary manslaughter is a severity level 3, person felony.

History: L. 1969, ch. 180, § 21-3403; L. 1992, ch. 298, § 5; L. 1993, ch. 291, § 20; July 1.

105 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:13:19pm

re: #95 lawhawk

And is still found on the census form in 2010 (but that's a discussion for another time)...

And one I'm not gonna' get into right now.

106 Soap_Man  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:13:46pm

re: #90 MandyManners

"Negro" is an acceptable word to people of a certain generation on both sides of the "color line".

Really? I didn't know anybody actually used it, like colored. So outdated, in fact, that it have actually become offensive. With the exception of the United Negro College Fund and the NAACP, which I always assumed they never changed because both have such high name recognition.

My post was more of a joke about Reid's age, but thanks for clarification.

107 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:13:54pm

re: #96 Ojoe

That's a totally honorable word if you ask me.

Then again I've read a lot of history books so I've got a retro vocabulary, probably.

BBL again

I heard it a lot (as well as "colored") when I was growing up in the South.

108 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:14:19pm

re: #102 SteveC

They aren't Democrats, therefore they do not exist.

DING!

109 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:14:25pm

re: #101 Thanos

The prosecutors will charge him with murder and the lesser included charges; the defense gets to attempt to cast doubt on the prosecutor's case. This doesn't change that fact, but the judge is making it easier for him to push a defense that gets perilously close to necessity.

110 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:14:27pm

re: #86 MandyManners

Biden said, "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

What about J.C. Watts? Condoleeza Rice? Michael Steele?

A thousand updings iffn' I had 'em to give on that one.....for JC Watts alone. He's been a class act as long I've known who he was....way back when he was qb'ing the OK Sooners.

111 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:15:26pm

re: #106 Soap_Man

Really? I didn't know anybody actually used it, like colored. So outdated, in fact, that it have actually become offensive. With the exception of the United Negro College Fund and the NAACP, which I always assumed they never changed because both have such high name recognition.

My post was more of a joke about Reid's age, but thanks for clarification.

Offensive to some, not to others although I reckon those in the latter category are dying out.

112 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:15:32pm

re: #109 lawhawk

The prosecutors will charge him with murder and the lesser included charges; the defense gets to attempt to cast doubt on the prosecutor's case. This doesn't change that fact, but the judge is making it easier for him to push a defense that gets perilously close to necessity.

Yep, and that was his original intent. He doesn't take the witness stand, he takes the self appointed martyr stand...

113 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:15:48pm
114 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:16:10pm

... and the bloody Randall Terry crowd is going to eat that shit up.

115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:16:31pm

re: #114 Thanos

... and the bloody Randall Terry crowd is going to eat that shit up.

Who? The accessory?

116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:17:40pm

Sorry.

117 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:17:41pm

re: #104 lawhawk

That sadly does sound all too much like Roder, but I'd like to think that someone like that who is showing NO repentance at all for his actions would never get passed a parole board, how long can we lock someone away for a security level three felony in Kansas? (Your link doesn't say)

118 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:17:51pm

re: #115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who? The accessory?

No, the Roeder necessity defense and the martyr stand... He thinks he's the new John Brown, and so do they

119 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:17:52pm
120 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:17:58pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm sure it was in the first paragraph. "Codswallop" was good though.

That is a British type of asterisk. Thank you.

I can appreciate sensitivities to gratuitous racial insults, but I insulted nobody and can hear these words (this word) anytime I want simply by tuning to a rap music station.

I hate to whine, since I use that term as a criticism frequently, but a taboo never goes away by pretending it doesn't exist.

121 avanti  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:19:10pm

Speaking of shifting dialects, black reporter gets bug in his mouth and loses it.

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:19:59pm

re: #120 Naso Tang

That word is not allowed here. Any variations, any number of asterisks don't save it. I am glad.

If I never heard it or read it again, I would be a happier person. I die a little every time I hear or read it.

123 okonkolo  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:20:34pm

A couple of days ago Ta-Nehesi Coates at the Atlantic lit up the term negro in biting satire. A taste:
"I want that old time effect. I'm talking about tweed and sepia, sonnets which trade in words like "inglorious" and phrases like "O kinsmen." A bow-tie and handkerchief is a plus. I'm talking narratives of high yallers passing. I'm talking about books with hoary titles like Oak and Ivy, Darkwater and Ethiopia Unbound (The Intuitionist?? The Farming of Bones?? The Big Machine??? Drown??? WTF???)

I am going to be glorious. I demand that my every utterance be force-fed to ghetto kids in public schools every February. I demand that white people not read a word I've written, but adopt a solemn, reverent look at the mere mention of my name."

124 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:20:44pm

re: #107 MandyManners

I heard it a lot (as well as "colored") when I was growing up in the South.

It was the most polite term available in '50s Pittsburgh.

125 SteveC  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:20:50pm

I'm outta here, fellow lizards. Stuff to do.

Everyone have a great Saturday evening!

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:20:59pm

re: #118 Thanos

(I was calling Randall Terry an accessory to murder)

127 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:21:22pm

re: #120 Naso Tang

There are certain words that will always get deleted here no matter how they are used or intended. Some reference race, some reference ethnicity, some reference body parts. Charles has code in place for those words, if you have to use "fills" to get a word into a comment it's really a good sign that you shouldn't be using it here at all.

128 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:21:34pm
129 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:22:00pm

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That word is not allowed here. Any variations, any number of asterisks don't save it. I am glad.

If I never heard it or read it again, I would be a happier person. I die a little every time I hear or read it.

Ok, not my blog, but I fear the creep of PC; and don't touch that dial or you may be shocked.

130 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:22:14pm

Also from the book: Schumer was hedging his bets. He recruited Obama before backing Hillary, and then got quiet when things got tight. Schumer's people strenuously deny the claim.

The Democrats were busy rolling each other and scheming within schemes during the primaries. Nothing new there. That always happens. This book just highlights all the craziness in hi-def.

131 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:22:17pm

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

AHHH, I'm a little slow this afternoon since I didn't get my usual Saturday nap in...

132 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:22:49pm

re: #124 Decatur Deb

It was the most polite term available in '50s Pittsburgh.

Did "Negro" give way to "colored" which gave way to "black" which gave way to "African-American"?

133 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:24:00pm

re: #132 MandyManners

Did you see our newest Lizard "American-African"? I love what he has to say! He's fantastic!

134 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:24:16pm

IRL, The Kid's history class is starting the study of slavery this week.

135 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:24:38pm

re: #133 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you see our newest Lizard "American-African"? I love what he has to say! He's fantastic!

I missed that hatchling.

136 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:25:03pm

Whatever happened to BlackGeorgeBush?

137 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:26:15pm

re: #128 generalsparky

We can only hope that bit of tech I read about somewhere which apparently allows a faux uterus and a previously fertilized egg to be implanted in a man is made easily accessed enough that people like Mr. Roder can on day find out how it feels to have a court appointed "nine month sentence" handed down to them and see how they like it...

138 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:26:22pm

re: #132 MandyManners

Did "Negro" give way to "colored" which gave way to "black" which gave way to "African-American"?

"Colored" was always there. It was less polite, and polite ladies' voices might drop a decibel when they used it. "Black" was a fighting word, but not the worst.
Pittsburgh was the melting pot, and the range of ethnic, racial, and religious insult was amazing.

139 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:26:42pm

Another excerpt from the same book......

[A]s Hillary bungled Caroline, Bill’s handling of Ted was even worse. The day after Iowa, he phoned Kennedy and pressed for an endorsement, making the case for his wife. But Bill then went on, belittling Obama in a manner that deeply offended Kennedy. Recounting the conversation later to a friend, Teddy fumed that Clinton had said, A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee.
140 brookly red  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:27:07pm

re: #136 MandyManners

Whatever happened to BlackGeorgeBush?

that sounds like a pirate...

141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:27:55pm

GET A LOAD OF THIS MANDY!

90 American-African1/08/2010 10:17:23 am PST

I am new here, and joined up specifically after reading Mr. Johnson's explanation for his split with the right. My understanding is he is still of a conservative mindset and agrees with questioning authority, however there is a way to go about doing so without all the unnecessary garbage. I did not vote for Bush, but because he was POTUS I supported him when I agreed with him and respectfully disagreed with him the rest of the 8 years he was in office. I had my children watch his addresses to the people as my father did.

I likewise support Obama, who I did vote for, though I want to hear people logically question him as they should have questioned Bush. I am no kool-aid drinking follower and believe we as Americans need to communicate via blogs in order to share real information not filtered by the far left or the far right.

142 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:28:04pm

re: #136 MandyManners

Whatever happened to BlackGeorgeBush?

He's been gone quite some time. Probably well before the election.

143 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:29:23pm

re: #141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The VP would say he's very articulate.

144 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:31:39pm

re: #139 Killgore Trout

[A]s Hillary bungled Caroline...

Whoa dude! TMI!
/

145 generalsparky  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:32:15pm

re: #137 jamesfirecat

Do you know why that post of mine is now deleted? I didn't think anything I stated was against the rules and if it was, I apologize.

146 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:32:36pm

re: #144 Slumbering Behemoth

Whoa dude! TMI!
/

Interesting how you interpreted that...
///:P

147 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:34:11pm

Gotta' finish dinner and feed the hungry hordes.

148 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:35:49pm

re: #146 Varek Raith

You could say that my mind is perpetually in the gutter, but that would be cleaning it up a bit.

149 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:36:25pm

Sure have a lot of deletes in a mundane thread. My apologies in advance if I started it.

150 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:36:45pm

re: #145 generalsparky

No idea, if I had to take a guess your prediction of Mr. Roder's futures might have seemed a bit too obscene for someone's liking...

151 political lunatic  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:37:19pm

Reid has really been out to piss off the Democratic base this whole time, huh? Would be nice if we could get a real progressive majority leader like Bernie Sanders that isn't afraid to get stuff done when Reid loses, but I'm not holding my breath because that is the only way anything significant gets done in the next 2 years. (assuming that we lose the filibuster-proof majority that was never really there) I know this sounds crazy and will never happen, but the Senate really needs to be abolished. Too many egos in the Senate get in the way of what the majority of the areas of the country really want, which is what the House is based off of, I believe.

152 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:39:17pm

re: #151 political lunatic

I know this sounds crazy and will never happen, but the Senate really needs to be abolished. Too many egos in the Senate get in the way of what the majority of the areas of the country really want, which is what the House is based off of, I believe.

You picked your handle well. I would give you a ding up for that, but I won't.

153 generalsparky  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:40:55pm

re: #150 jamesfirecat

Amazing since there was no profanity and I was just showing what softy I am ;-)

(being both anti-death penalty and anti-American prison system in it's present state)

154 political lunatic  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:46:55pm

re: #152 Naso Tang

I know I was off-base, but I'm just sick and tired of the minority and a couple of guys who are desperate for attention having the ability to block important stuff that most of the country really would like to see happen. That is anti-democratic, and it doesn't work like that in the House.

155 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:47:35pm

Can someone help me out with the youtube embed feature? When I click on the "how to embed videos", the embedded youtube video info link kicks me over to an infolink that does not tell me how to have the youtube video embedded in my comment window. I don't want my youtube link to kick out of the LGF site. Thanks in advance.

156 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:48:47pm

re: #154 political lunatic

I know I was off-base, but I'm just sick and tired of the minority and a couple of guys who are desperate for attention having the ability to block important stuff that most of the country really would like to see happen. That is anti-democratic, and it doesn't work like that in the House.

I strongly disagree. The founders wanted to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

157 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:49:06pm

re: #151 political lunatic

So I'm guessing you don't like Joe Liberman?

158 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:49:58pm

re: #157 prairiefire

PIMF Joe Lieberman

159 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:50:33pm

re: #154 political lunatic

I know I was off-base, but I'm just sick and tired of the minority and a couple of guys who are desperate for attention having the ability to block important stuff that most of the country really would like to see happen. That is anti-democratic, and it doesn't work like that in the House.

I'm no expert, but I think that what you don't like has been going on since your granddaddy was but a gleam in someone eye. All you seem to want is a populist system (your populous). Our founders were smarter than you, and probably I.

160 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:51:38pm

re: #78 Ojoe

Heck it's a free country, you can assume any dialect you want. Hillary switched dialects, IIRC.

Back later y'all.

"Ah don't fail no-ways tarred."

161 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:53:53pm

re: #155 prairiefire

Can someone help me out with the youtube embed feature? When I click on the "how to embed videos", the embedded youtube video info link kicks me over to an infolink that does not tell me how to have the youtube video embedded in my comment window. I don't want my youtube link to kick out of the LGF site. Thanks in advance.

If I understand you correctly, you don't need to use the embed code at all. Just copy & paste the YouTube clip's URL right into the comment box, and Charles' code fu will take care of the rest. Preview is your friend.

162 political lunatic  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:54:23pm

re: #156 Varek Raith

re: #157 prairiefire

If a rational Republican party ever gets back in power in a legitimate way, I believe that I have no right to complain because that is how democracy is supposed to work. It's like a famous rivalry in baseball. When your team loses one round, you don't throw things all over the room. You take defeat like a man and prepare to win the next battle.

163 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:55:39pm

re: #156 Varek Raith


Maybe so, but the first Filibuster didn't happen till 1837, so don't go saying the Founding Father's had our current "Super majority or bust" situation in mind when they thought up the Senate...

164 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:55:52pm

re: #154 political lunatic

I know I was off-base, but I'm just sick and tired of the minority and a couple of guys who are desperate for attention having the ability to block important stuff that most of the country really would like to see happen. That is anti-democratic, and it doesn't work like that in the House.

The government was set up this way so that bad laws wouldn't get passed in a fit of popular passion. Instead, bad laws are passed after extended periods of calm, sober horse-trading.

165 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 3:58:49pm

re: #163 jamesfirecat

Maybe so, but the first Filibuster didn't happen till 1837, so don't go saying the Founding Father's had our current "Super majority or bust" situation in mind when they thought up the Senate...

I think the only thing he said was... "The founders wanted to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority." Why do you try to put words into his mouth?

166 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:00:09pm

Charles has an excellent blog, dog. Thanks, SI. OT ~ excellent new rock from some young ones from Kentucky:

167 political lunatic  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:02:45pm

re: #164 The Sanity Inspector

It was set up like that, but I don't think this has been true since Clinton's 1st term. See: repeal on Glass-Steagall because Citicorp probably threw lots of $$$ at Congress to get in done (helped the economy quagmire we're in now get started), and take your pick with Bush's 1st term after 9/11 (I pick the Patriot Act.)

168 tradewind  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:04:34pm

So...... they know what's in Reid's heart: and it is good.
And they knew what was in Trent Lott's heart: and it was bad.
Lott stepped down, with a push. Reid quits in five.... four.... three......?

169 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:04:42pm

re: #165 Walter L. Newton

I think the only thing he said was... "The founders wanted to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority." Why do you try to put words into his mouth?

I wasn't trying to put words in his mouth and I'm sorry if that's how it came across, I was trying to clearly establish how the Founders envisioned the Senate, by having the same number of members from each state regardless of size it helps protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

At the moment however in my opinion over use of the filibuster has done much to help a pathetically small Republican minority keep a fairly elected democratic majority in the Senate from passing laws.

Filibuster reform of course another topic all together though it would be interesting to hear Charles' thoughts on it...

170 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:10:06pm

re: #168 tradewind

That seems like a false equivalency to me, Trent Lott said that "And if the rest of the country had followed our lead [voting for Strom Thurmond and segregation], we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years, either." ([Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Reid said that people would be more willing to vote for a black candidate if he wasn't all that dark of skin and didn't sound like a sterotypical black person.

Both of those are racist, but one of them is speculating on people's views, the other is advocating we return to Jim Crow....

171 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:10:10pm

re: #169 jamesfirecat

I wasn't trying to put words in his mouth and I'm sorry if that's how it came across, I was trying to clearly establish how the Founders envisioned the Senate, by having the same number of members from each state regardless of size it helps protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

At the moment however in my opinion over use of the filibuster has done much to help a pathetically small Republican minority keep a fairly elected democratic majority in the Senate from passing laws.

Filibuster reform of course another topic all together though it would be interesting to hear Charles' thoughts on it...

No... the honored gentleman from Nebraska kept a fairly elected democratic majority in the Senate from passing laws... No... the honored lady from Louisiana kept a fairly elected democratic majority in the Senate from passing laws... No... the honored gentleman from Louisiana kept a fairly elected democratic majority in the Senate from passing laws... No... the honored independent from Conn. kept a fairly elected democratic majority in the Senate from passing laws...

You won... take credit for what you have or have not accomplished and stop blaming it on a bunch of ineffective crazy right wingers.

172 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:13:58pm

re: #171 Walter L. Newton

If those 40 Republican Senators hadn't stood shoulder to shoulder being ready to filibuster the bill and thus making it necessary for 60 votes to bring it to the floor to vote on it, those four blue dogs would have been effectively told to "f*** off" and the bill from the senate would have a public option.


I'll admit I'm playing make believe but you've brought up four democratic senators, I think there's something wrong with the senate when 44 people's voting no win by default over 56 people voting "yes".

173 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:14:12pm

re: #166 prairiefire

Now you're rollin'!

174 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:15:09pm

re: #172 jamesfirecat

If those 40 Republican Senators hadn't stood shoulder to shoulder being ready to filibuster the bill and thus making it necessary for 60 votes to bring it to the floor to vote on it, those four blue dogs would have been effectively told to "f*** off" and the bill from the senate would have a public option.

I'll admit I'm playing make believe but you've brought up four democratic senators, I think there's something wrong with the senate when 44 people's voting no win by default over 56 people voting "yes".

You say that like it's a bad thing?

175 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:16:03pm

re: #172 jamesfirecat

If those 40 Republican Senators hadn't stood shoulder to shoulder being ready to filibuster the bill and thus making it necessary for 60 votes to bring it to the floor to vote on it, those four blue dogs would have been effectively told to "f*** off" and the bill from the senate would have a public option.

I'll admit I'm playing make believe but you've brought up four democratic senators, I think there's something wrong with the senate when 44 people's voting no win by default over 56 people voting "yes".

Three blue dogs, I list the lady from the state of LA. twice.

176 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:18:08pm

re: #172 jamesfirecat

If those 40 Republican Senators hadn't stood shoulder to shoulder being ready to filibuster the bill and thus making it necessary for 60 votes to bring it to the floor to vote on it, those four blue dogs would have been effectively told to "f*** off" and the bill from the senate would have a public option.

I'll admit I'm playing make believe but you've brought up four democratic senators, I think there's something wrong with the senate when 44 people's voting no win by default over 56 people voting "yes".

Consensus-building can be sordid and unsightly--but it's absolutely essential to a democratic republic like ours. Things would not be better if 49% had to sit bound and gagged because 51% "know" what needs to be done.

177 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:18:23pm

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

So you like requiring a supermajority to get anything done in the Senate?

178 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:18:55pm

re: #177 jamesfirecat

So you like requiring a supermajority to get anything done in the Senate?

Yep, and you would love it too if the tables were turned... no?

179 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:20:31pm

re: #177 jamesfirecat

So you like requiring a supermajority to get anything done in the Senate?

You see, it works all ways...

Democrats hold off Republican super-majority in Senate

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

180 Decider  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:25:14pm

The problem is that Reid thinks Obama is an anomaly within the Black community. This points to the racial hypocrisy of the Democratic party. Democrats as well as Republicans consider Blacks inferior. The difference is that the Democrats pander to Blacks for votes.

Republicans feel the same way about poor Whites but they are smart enough to keep their pandering under wraps. Pandering to uneducated Whites is the reason Fox News and Southern Republicans are so successful.

This is Reid macaca moment. Reid has never been the sharpest knife in the drawer as evidenced by his "The war is lost" comments, but now he will get little support from his colleagues on the Left for such an idiotic statement.

181 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:25:32pm

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

Maybe so, but for the tables to be turned, our philosophical positions would have to be flipped as well.

Democrats believe government can do good and so they want to grow it, so they want the senate to be able to pass new laws.

Conservatives believe the government can't do good and so they want to shrink it/keep it the same size so they don't want the senate to be able to pass new laws.


That's a cookie cutter simplified version of it, but how else do you explain why there are so many more filibusters by republicans than democrats?

"In the 2007-08 session of Congress, Republicans forced 112 cloture votes, nearly doubling the Democrats' record when they were in the minority."
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]


So yeah if I were someone who believed in small government I would smile when I saw that it now took 60 out of a 100 people agreeing on anything to get something done....

182 Scriptorium  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:26:33pm

While his choice of term, "Negro dialect", is jarring, being able to use or not use it according to circumstances and audience is the sort of option English teachers struggle with.

All else being equal, many employers will pick the applicant who employs standard grammar and diction over one who does not--and this applies to all colors and origins of Americans.

The struggle for teachers is how to encourage and reward 'standard' grammar without, somehow, abetting racism/classism. Standard English is not better than other patterns, and may well be more prosaic and static. It is, however, the common currency of speech in most U.S. locations.

Is that a good thing?

183 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:27:13pm

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

You see, it works all ways...

Democrats hold off Republican super-majority in Senate

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

I'm not following you what are you trying to insinuate?

184 tradewind  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:27:19pm

re: #170 jamesfirecat
Your brackets are convenient, but inaccurate. Lott was attending a birthday party for a man in his nineties, flattering him, and he was referencing his legislative skills, which were considerable.
I think Harry has shown us how he really feels. But he's not alone.... sounds just like Joe Biden's ' clean ' comment before the election.

185 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:29:31pm

re: #181 jamesfirecat

Maybe so, but for the tables to be turned, our philosophical positions would have to be flipped as well.

Democrats believe government can do good and so they want to grow it, so they want the senate to be able to pass new laws.

Conservatives believe the government can't do good and so they want to shrink it/keep it the same size so they don't want the senate to be able to pass new laws.

That's a cookie cutter simplified version of it, but how else do you explain why there are so many more filibusters by republicans than democrats?

"In the 2007-08 session of Congress, Republicans forced 112 cloture votes, nearly doubling the Democrats' record when they were in the minority."
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

So yeah if I were someone who believed in small government I would smile when I saw that it now took 60 out of a 100 people agreeing on anything to get something done...

You just can't accept the fact that your own party won, has all the power it needs and they still can't get together on the same page, so you just have to find someone to blame your inabilities on... it's getting old, Bush is way out of the picture, you have you OWN battle coming up in the with the House, you all better stop wasting your time trying to find all sorts of excuses and start acting like effective politicians that you keep claiming you are... times a wasting Ranger!

186 tradewind  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:29:48pm

re: #182 Scriptorium
That's not what Reid meant re the dialogue.
It's pretty clear that he meant that Obama could resort to the use of ebonics when it worked for him demographically, which is another way of saying he could patronize his electorate by talking down to them when (Reid saw it as ) necessary.

187 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:30:02pm

re: #176 The Sanity Inspector

Okay I'll meet you halfway how about the Filibuster takes 55% percent of the Senate to stop it instead of 60% would that be reasonable?

Hell I'll give you the old 2/3rds and 67% to break it, but reinstate the rules where if you Filibuster you have to ACTUALLY FILIBUSTER! Get out there and keep talking, the people filibustering can switch up, they can read names and numbers out of the phone book, but the bill doesn't just die because 41% say they want it to. Instead it kept from the floor for however long they can keep talking.

Would that seem reasonable to you?

188 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:30:20pm

re: #183 jamesfirecat

I'm not following you what are you trying to insinuate?

I'm not going to spell it out for you...

189 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:30:36pm

re: #186 tradewind

Have you ever heard President Obama use ebonics?

190 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:31:49pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

To be fair, have you ever met a democrat who claims to be a member of an "effective political party"?

I know I know, I'm judging the real issue but I couldn't resist the joke set up...

191 tradewind  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:33:21pm

re: #189 prairiefire
How is that relevant? I'm not the one who made the assertion. Ask Harry Reid.///

192 tradewind  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:34:47pm

re: #190 jamesfirecat
Actually, James Carville said in his last book that the Democrats will ' reign for the next forty years'.
He may want to rethink.

193 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:37:23pm

re: #191 tradewind

I suppose Pres. Obama could use slang, I have heard that. "Unless he wants to"....I guess that is certainly a far question to ask when Harry would think Pres. Obama wanted to.

194 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:37:41pm

re: #192 tradewind

Yes he might!

195 Scriptorium  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:40:47pm

re: #186 tradewind

That's not what Reid meant re the dialogue.
It's pretty clear that he meant that Obama could resort to the use of ebonics when it worked for him demographically, which is another way of saying he could patronize his electorate by talking down to them when (Reid saw it as ) necessary.

Well, maybe. But what I read into the quoted snippet is that he was saying, "Look, the guy speaks like us and that makes him more electable." The "unless he wants to" part seems like an afterthought. I doubt if Reid had ever heard Obama speak anything but standard English.

196 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:43:39pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

I think you're switching topics on me. I'm just trying to explain why I feel that Republcians would be prone to over using the the filibuster (because by default they're fans of governmental inertia) and then provided some proof that they doubtlessly do use the filibuster more than democrats do.

What part of my logic do you find faulty exactly?

197 generalsparky  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:51:08pm

re: #195 Scriptorium

Was Senator Reid at the healthcare reform forum where President Obama used the term "wee-weed up" and had most folks going "WTF?"

I think that like most people, when he is comfortable or in a casual setting President Obama uses slang. Perfectly normal and fine IMO.

198 stayfrosty  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:52:48pm

re: #9 PaxAmericana

If Limbaugh had said this, no one on the right would have noticed or cared.

And if any Republican had said this, you'd be using it as evidence of vast right-wing racism.

199 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:54:11pm

re: #184 tradewind

Your brackets are convenient, but inaccurate. Lott was attending a birthday party for a man in his nineties, flattering him, and he was referencing his legislative skills, which were considerable.
I think Harry has shown us how he really feels. But he's not alone... sounds just like Joe Biden's ' clean ' comment before the election.

"When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years, either."


If you say so.....

(about the Trent Lott thing I'll give you that Reid's comments seem to be in the same vein as Biden's for better or worse)

200 EB71  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 4:58:12pm

re: #27 sattv4u2

Delete the second "m" and you will have an apt description for one who would make such a remark as Sen. Reid made.

201 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 5:03:43pm

re: #192 tradewind

Actually, James Carville said in his last book that the Democrats will ' reign for the next forty years'.
He may want to rethink.

I contend there's a difference between "reigning" and being "effective" after all we could "reign" (in the sense of "be in charge) and yet be hilariously infective at it, like the Keystone Cops!

All we have to do to "reign" in this country is to be elected, we'd have to start handing out brains to some people and spines to others (not to say there aren't some who need both) to be "effective".

202 Unakite  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 5:38:35pm

re: #169 jamesfirecat

I wasn't trying to put words in his mouth and I'm sorry if that's how it came across, I was trying to clearly establish how the Founders envisioned the Senate, by having the same number of members from each state regardless of size it helps protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

At the moment however in my opinion over use of the filibuster has done much to help a pathetically small Republican minority keep a fairly elected democratic majority in the Senate from passing laws.

Filibuster reform of course another topic all together though it would be interesting to hear Charles' thoughts on it...

40 percent is "pathetically small?"

203 tradewind  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 5:39:00pm

re: #201 jamesfirecat
That infective is hilarious, granted. Beats invective every time.
The parsing, not as effective anymore since Bubba wore it out.
:)

204 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 5:41:28pm

re: #202 Unakite

40 percent is "pathetically small?"

Okay tis a fair cop, you caught me.

Allow me to rephrase my original point, Republicans in the senate are not "pathetically small" they are however in my opinion "irritatingly small"

Fair enough?

205 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 5:45:30pm

re: #203 tradewind

That infective is hilarious, granted. Beats invective every time.
The parsing, not as effective anymore since Bubba wore it out.
:)

I stand by that it was you who forced me to parse by mixing up "the democrats are an effective party" and "the democrats are the reigning/in power party" since the later would seem to be the default as long as the GOP seems to be an even worse choice for office than we are (thank you Tea Partiers).

That said if thank you Tradewind for keeping this civil and enjoyable if nothing else you make an interesting opponent to pratice my "liberal left hook" against.

206 Unakite  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 5:53:03pm

re: #204 jamesfirecat

Okay tis a fair cop, you caught me.

Allow me to rephrase my original point, Republicans in the senate are not "pathetically small" they are however in my opinion "irritatingly small"

Fair enough?

Since that's your opinion, fair enough.

207 tradewind  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 5:56:30pm

Good to see that the Presidency has mellowed Obama, imbued him with the spirit of forgiveness, which he has bestowed upon Reid ' without hesitation '.// Yet....a talk show host?
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
And in 2002, his on-the-record opinion was that the republican party must ' Drive Trent Lott Out'.
Guess he's grown in office.

208 tradewind  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 5:58:53pm

re: #206 Unakite
Just hang tough. It's freakish, but not only will Dorgan's seat go R,....in MA, Brown is ahead of Coakley by a point in one poll.
Mirabile dictu!

209 joest73  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 6:45:07pm

I don't know if I am permitted to post here but Reid and Bill Clinton's comments were intended to be private and those private racist remarks that were probably intended to be funny but are no longer funny. We have all been in those moments where we or someone else makes those kind of remarks.

I know I've done it but I have made an effort to not joke around about race, ethnicity, or people with physical or mental disabilities because my two kids under ten are listening.

210 Vambo  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 8:06:23pm

I think there is a difference between racism and ignorance/naivety.

"articulate black man" = ignorant.

pictures of Obama shining shoes, etc = racist.

"Obama is a racist with a deep-seated hatred of white people" = um, LIE.

211 Blueheron  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 8:18:09pm

re: #3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm not sure it was a racist statement that he made.

Perhaps we should get Mitt or Rudy or Newt or Rush or Glenn to say the exact same thing and see what the reaction is before we determine whether it was a racist statement.

Then, we would truly know.


You can bet if one of them said the same it would be called racist.
As far as I am concerned they all can take a big jump in the lake. I am disgusted with the entire bunch of politicians we have today.

212 Blueheron  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 8:20:09pm

re: #4 jamesfirecat

Be careful what you wish for, we democrats may be able to find a senate majority leader who knows how to actually get portions of a liberal agenda passed when there are only 40 conservative senators to oppose him.


I'm not saying it's likely, but it could happen...


Maybe but after Reid is gone in the 2010 election there won't be a 60 vote majority for the Democrats anymore.

213 Blueheron  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 8:22:05pm

re: #9 PaxAmericana

If Limbaugh had said this, no one on the right would have noticed or cared.


So does anyone care because a Democrat has said it?

214 Blueheron  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 8:28:01pm

re: #20 generalsparky

Well, I know you are wrong. I am most definitely on the right and I think racism of any kind is wrong, and I don't care who is trying to peddle it.

Bravo.

215 Blueheron  Sat, Jan 9, 2010 8:34:34pm

re: #22 SteveC

"You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. *That's* the *Chicago* way! And that's how you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that? I'm offering you a deal. Do you want this deal?"

re: #53 Slumbering Behemoth

Though I am inclined to agree with his criticism of Reid, I can only laugh at this:


As a republican myself, I will take their calls for condemnation seriously when they start calling out the racist crap going on at the Tea Parties, the TP organizers, and the JBS.


They are ALL worthless.

216 andres  Sun, Jan 10, 2010 9:02:26am

re: #212 Blueheron

Maybe but after Reid is gone in the 2010 election there won't be a 60 vote majority for the Democrats anymore.

This isn't a one-open-position election. There are around 37 Senate seats that will be up for election this November, with about 6 of those from retiring Senators (2 Ds & 4 Rs). Even with Reid losing his seat, there are other places where the Democrats can get the 60th vote.

re: #209 joest73

I don't know if I am permitted to post here but Reid and Bill Clinton's comments were intended to be private and those private racist remarks that were probably intended to be funny but are no longer funny. We have all been in those moments where we or someone else makes those kind of remarks.

I think this is worth taking into account. These were private conversations, not meant to be public. It's not like they are the first persons to talk behind other's back in an insulting way.

217 huggy77  Sun, Jan 10, 2010 2:06:52pm

I thought Biden's was funnier... I also think that is a bit pandering to voting block that they know nothing about... These are rich old white guys, and probably dont hang out with that diverse a crowd... I agree with the ignorance label...

218 mph  Sun, Jan 10, 2010 3:21:57pm

Thankfully the president is able to accept the apology on behalf of all black people.

219 ryannon  Sun, Jan 10, 2010 6:32:41pm

re: #218 mph

Thankfully the president is able to accept the apology on behalf of all black people.

I'm a Jew. Someone calls me a kike and then apologizes. I accept the apology on behalf of all Jewish people. And then put my head back up my rectum - exactly where it belongs.

220 American-African  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:48:22am

I believe some folks are confusing racist comment with racially insensitive comment. What Harry Reid said was clearly insensitive, but the statement as a whole does not rise to the level of racist in my view. Some of the dumb things Rush has said that were decried as racist were also merely racially insensitive, however his reputation causes many to immediately jump conclusions because of the intent behind the statement. When I consider Harry Reid's intent, I am not offended.

I have heard many comparisons to Trent Lott's comments in 2002 and the comments themselves were racially insensitive, not racist, however the intent behind them, the unveiled support of a segregationist presidential platform, the implication that we "would not have all the problems we have today" if segregation were the norm, that I found patently offensive.


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