Jump to bottom

659 comments
1 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:32:22pm

I bet boxers have prettier feet than ballerinas.

2 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:35:21pm

re: #1 MandyManners

I bet boxers have prettier feet than ballerinas.

The noses, though, the noses...

3 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:35:36pm

re: #2 freetoken

The noses, though, the noses...

And, the ears....

4 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:36:01pm

Hey. Where's my fourth "."?

5 Digital Display  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:36:08pm

re: #3 MandyManners

And, the ears...

And the Brains

6 Summer Seale  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:38:59pm

Reposting from previous thread for kicks.

Total Humor from Geekologie:

Rugged Phone FAIL. =)

7 Kragar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:39:30pm

When I was a kid my favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. After school we'd all go play in his cave, and every once in a while he would eat one of us. It wasn't until later that I found out that Uncle Caveman was a bear.

- Jack Handy

8 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:43:51pm

re: #4 MandyManners

Hey. Where's my fourth "."?

The hamsters eated them...

9 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:48:24pm

Since we're on the topic of AGW (heh...), notice that this USA Today news article from this morning:

Report: 2009 was a warm year in USA

... already has 503 comments.

Many of the comments (I have not read all of them, so I can't use the term "most") are just regurgitations of some idiocy that the comment writer has cut and pasted (if not literally, then in their mind) from some denier site.

Without really understanding what the terms, phrases, and ideas really mean.

The advent of the computer and then the web has brought about a increase in the skills of mimicry, but I'm not convinced these tools have brought about any greater increase in scientific literacy, or any other kind of literacy.

Woe is us?

10 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:48:40pm

FYI- Newsweek has a great piece by Teddy Olson called "The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage".

11 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:49:24pm

re: #10 TampaKnight

It's been linked here several times already.

There are few here who want to take up the argument against such an idea.

12 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:50:24pm

re: #11 freetoken

It's been linked here several times already.

There are few here who want to take up the argument against such an idea.

Sorry for the re-post then....didn't see it.

13 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:52:24pm

re: #12 TampaKnight

Heh... this is a busy site. However, the search function can be useful if you need to look up a topic.

14 avanti  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:52:29pm

What a surprise, Palin joining

Fox TV. /

15 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:55:57pm

re: #3 MandyManners

My grade school (Military, Catholic) had a regulation ring. Boxing was mandatory for all of us during the school year, voluntary for most during the Summer. Today's generation of liability lawyers have missed the golden age.

16 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:56:24pm

re: #14 avanti

What a surprise, Palin joining

Fox TV. /

Speaking of previously posted...

17 LittleBenny  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:57:32pm

I miss Jack Handey. My fav is "Tadpoles! Tadpoles is a winner!"

18 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:58:19pm

re: #15 Decatur Deb

My grade school (Military, Catholic) had a regulation ring. Boxing was mandatory for all of us during the school year, voluntary for most during the Summer. Today's generation of liability lawyers have missed the golden age.

My dad is 64 years old and when he was in grade school at a Catholic school, the head Priest headed up a boxing league after school.

You're right, if this happened today there would be legions of lawyers waiting outside.

It's sad what frivolous litigation has done to our society.

19 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:58:20pm

re: #14 avanti

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

20 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 2:59:55pm

re: #9 freetoken

Since we're on the topic of AGW (heh...), notice that this USA Today news article from this morning:

Report: 2009 was a warm year in USA

... already has 503 comments.

Many of the comments (I have not read all of them, so I can't use the term "most") are just regurgitations of some idiocy that the comment writer has cut and pasted (if not literally, then in their mind) from some denier site.

Without really understanding what the terms, phrases, and ideas really mean.

The advent of the computer and then the web has brought about a increase in the skills of mimicry, but I'm not convinced these tools have brought about any greater increase in scientific literacy, or any other kind of literacy.

Woe is us?

I've always wondered if there are payments going to Mechanical Turkers whenever an AGW article appears. I suspect that was also used in the Luap Nor campaign.

21 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:01:31pm

re: #18 TampaKnight

snip

It's sad what frivolous litigation has done to our society.

Then again, we played with mercury, chewed roofing tar as ersatz gum, and attended a number of children's funerals.

22 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:03:20pm

re: #20 Thanos

I've always wondered if there are payments going to Mechanical Turkers whenever an AGW article appears. I suspect that was also used in the Luap Nor campaign.

Yeah, no kidding...

Next example, this from the Meg Whitman story posted in the spin-offs:

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

Only 5 comments so far, and currently on the top of the stack is a cut and paste from that horrid DailyMail article (which was posted here at LGF too.)

It's like someone (at the DailyMail? In Murdoch's office?) is hired to go around and cut and paste the same verbage on every singe news story having to do with AGW.

23 researchok  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:03:20pm

Substitute the word 'politician' for 'boxer' and there are a whole lot uglier analogies that can be made.

24 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:03:49pm

re: #1 MandyManners

I bet boxers have prettier feet than ballerinas.

you do NOT want to be kicked by a ballerina, nope not ever.

25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:08:04pm

Oh man, this is a hoot.

"Mind telling me a hot bedtime story?"

Do not worry, it's totally SFW text.

26 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:09:11pm

re: #22 freetoken

Yeah, no kidding...

Next example, this from the Meg Whitman story posted in the spin-offs:

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

Only 5 comments so far, and currently on the top of the stack is a cut and paste from that horrid DailyMail article (which was posted here at LGF too.)

It's like someone (at the DailyMail? In Murdoch's office?) is hired to go around and cut and paste the same verbage on every singe news story having to do with AGW.

Some here might not know about MechT and other like services so I'm going to link the wiki.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The bottom line is that MT has strayed far from original mission and can be used as cheap insta spam:

Other common HIT types ask Turkers to write or rewrite sentences, paragraphs, or whole articles. These have rewards ranging from one cent to about $10. HITs which reward people for linking to or commenting on a blog, or friending a person on Facebook are also often encountered, as are surveys.

27 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:11:28pm

re: #26 Thanos

Oh, good! I was wondering what Mechanical Turkers were!

28 Firstinla  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:11:41pm

re: #18 TampaKnight

I was educated in a Catholic military academy back in the Fifties. Boxing was part of a very demanding physical education program. When I mentioned this to my nephews they just gave me their most polite, patronizing look and rolled their eyes. Physical education for these youngsters is limited to practicing Wii games and developing finger-thumb dexterity on their Playstations.

29 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:12:42pm

Wow...I didn't realize the damage from Saturday's earthquake was this bad.

SF Gate Link

30 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:13:58pm

re: #28 Firstinla

I was educated in a Catholic military academy back in the Fifties. Boxing was part of a very demanding physical education program. When I mentioned this to my nephews they just gave me their most polite, patronizing look and rolled their eyes. Physical education for these youngsters is limited to practicing Wii games and developing finger-thumb dexterity on their Playstations.

They probably think Punch-Out!! for Wii is pretty much the same thing.

31 Mocking Jay  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:14:09pm

re: #25 Slumbering Behemoth

Bill & Ted for the win.

32 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:14:13pm

re: #28 Firstinla

Some school districts are severely cutting recess, then wonder why boys go squirrely.

33 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:14:18pm

re: #26 Thanos

Most of the HITs are only worth pennies... which makes me wonder if the "workers" realize they are giving away their labor for free?

34 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:14:22pm

re: #3 MandyManners

And, the ears...

And her carries the reminders
Of every glove that laid him down
Or cut him 'till he cried out
In his anger and his shame...

35 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:15:12pm

re: #29 darthstar

Wow...I didn't realize the damage from Saturday's earthquake was this bad.

SF Gate Link

The broken bongs!

36 Jolo5309  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:15:25pm

re: #21 Decatur Deb

I was fortunate, only one child (well he was 15) I was growing up with died, and that was a farming accident, when the front end loader he was driving rolled on him.

We played street hockey till dark, baseball until bedtime and sometimes disappeared for hours on end on our bikes. I think we have taken the spirit of exploration from our kids due to fear and sensationalistic media.

37 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:15:34pm

re: #34 Spare O'Lake

he

38 Firstinla  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:16:24pm

bbl...going to try to assemble a new desk and, hopefully, not do a lot of damage to my body.

39 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:16:27pm

re: #32 Decatur Deb

Some school districts are severely cutting recess, then wonder why boys go squirrely.

Illinois is one of the few, possibly only, states that require P.E. by law. A lot of my fellow classmates complained about it, but those who did often looked like they could use a little exercise.

40 deeezle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:17:32pm

Anyone paying attention to the Mass Special Election for Kennedy's former seat?

Tea partiers are swarming, trying to repeat Ny-23 (well, except that they lost there). Scott Brown might raise a lot more money if he moves further to the right. However, the further right he goes, he further damages his chances to win.

Oh, and the independent candidate in the race is named Joseph Kennedy (no relation to the famous family). You can't make this stuff up.

41 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:17:52pm

re: #30 Soap_Man

They probably think Punch-Out!! for Wii is pretty much the same thing.

I get a kick out out people who take an aerobics class & then say they are into kick-boxing...

42 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:19:18pm

re: #36 Jolo5309

snip

I think we have taken the spirit of exploration from our kids due to fear and sensationalistic media.

24hr news effect. We were aware if a kid was harmed in our town. Now everyone hears nine times, if a kid is hurt in Barstow, CA.

43 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:19:48pm

Take for example this HIT (one of the better paying ones):


Requester: Midwest Internet
HIT Expiration Date: Jan 12, 2010 (23 hours 14 minutes)
Time Allotted: 60 minutes
Reward: $0.39
HITs Available: 509
Description: Visit a provided URL and summarize the contents of the page using 75 words or more. Nice payout for a simple writing task - I am looking for workers with solid writing skills. Please keep it short and useful!

If someone did indeed take 60 minutes to complete that task then they are working for around 5% of minimum wage! If you can complete the task in under 3 minutes then you can beat minimum wage.

44 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:19:49pm

re: #40 deeezle

Welcome, hatchling.

45 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:20:36pm

re: #41 brookly red

I get a kick out out people who take an aerobics class & then say they are into kick-boxing...

At the Y I go to, they list that aerobics class as "kickboxing." If you are not kicking another person, or at least a dummy, it's not kickboxing.

46 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:20:41pm

re: #33 freetoken

Most of the HITs are only worth pennies... which makes me wonder if the "workers" realize they are giving away their labor for free?

Most of them realize it, some are near addicted. A lot of Turkers are undergrads. There's a Berkman lecture that's very interesting about this and other aspects of the various online piece work and crowd sourcing schemes. Some are very cool and good, others are downright f'ing scary. E.G. there are games you can play online and you are really doing work but getting paid nothing, and you don't even know it. There are also means to massively array this and identify protesters in Iran... or anywhere.
Long - but worth your while - Jonathan Zittrain - Minds for Sale

47 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:21:36pm

re: #45 Soap_Man

At the Y I go to, they list that aerobics class as "kickboxing." If you are not kicking another person, or at least a dummy, it's not kickboxing.

if you have all your teeth it's not kick-boxing...

48 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:21:45pm

re: #40 deeezle

Anyone paying attention to the Mass Special Election for Kennedy's former seat?

Tea partiers are swarming, trying to repeat Ny-23 (well, except that they lost there). Scott Brown might raise a lot more money if he moves further to the right. However, the further right he goes, he further damages his chances to win.

Oh, and the independent candidate in the race is named Joseph Kennedy (no relation to the famous family). You can't make this stuff up.

He's running in Massachusetts....he KNOWS he can't go very far right. And I don't think he is.

49 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:22:49pm

re: #40 deeezle

Anyone paying attention to the Mass Special Election for Kennedy's former seat?

Tea partiers are swarming, trying to repeat Ny-23 (well, except that they lost there). Scott Brown might raise a lot more money if he moves further to the right. However, the further right he goes, he further damages his chances to win.

Oh, and the independent candidate in the race is named Joseph Kennedy (no relation to the famous family). You can't make this stuff up.

Last I heard, Brown had managed to narrow the spread to near-even with Coakley, the Democratic candidate. Until the Tea Partiers showed up. Once Malkin released her shit-flinging monkeys, Coakley jumped to a 15 point lead.

That news, however, is a few days old.

But right now, you're correct that the TPers seem poised to repeat their actions, and the outcome, of NY23 by turning victory into defeat.

50 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:23:48pm

re: #49 SixDegrees

Last I heard, Brown had managed to narrow the spread to near-even with Coakley, the Democratic candidate. Until the Tea Partiers showed up. Once Malkin released her shit-flinging monkeys, Coakley jumped to a 15 point lead.

That news, however, is a few days old.

But right now, you're correct that the TPers seem poised to repeat their actions, and the outcome, of NY23 by turning victory into defeat.

The +15 and even number is under dispute, since those numbers came out on the same day. 2 different polling agencies.

51 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:24:14pm

re: #43 freetoken

Take for example this HIT (one of the better paying ones):

If someone did indeed take 60 minutes to complete that task then they are working for around 5% of minimum wage! If you can complete the task in under 3 minutes then you can beat minimum wage.

They only pay me three cents a comment, here. Two cents for puns.

//one cent for sarc

52 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:25:07pm

re: #1 MandyManners

I bet boxers have prettier feet than ballerinas.

Primo Carnera, Italian Heavyweight Champion.

53 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:25:27pm

re: #51 Decatur Deb

They only pay me three cents a comment, here. Two cents for puns.

//one cent for sarc

if there was a snark market I would be sitting pretty...

54 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:25:44pm

re: #50 TampaKnight

The +15 and even number is under dispute, since those numbers came out on the same day. 2 different polling agencies.

Yeah, those polls have been all over the place. Nate Silver has a great piece on all the mayhem.

55 deeezle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:25:50pm

re: #50 TampaKnight

Dems releasing internal polling and sending resources up there. Not a sign of extreme confidence. Its closer than it should be.

I don't know what to think about Scott Brown - he supported Cap N Trade and health care reform. He was on Hannity last week, transcript here [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

He isn't going to win, but its an interesting election.

56 Jolo5309  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:26:24pm

re: #42 Decatur Deb

Oh I know, and there are children that get hurt or kidnapped, but it definitely is not as common as the media wants us to think.

57 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:26:51pm

re: #55 deeezle

Dems releasing internal polling and sending resources up there. Not a sign of extreme confidence. Its closer than it should be.

I don't know what to think about Scott Brown - he supported Cap N Trade and health care reform. He was on Hannity last week, transcript here [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

He isn't going to win, but its an interesting election.

He supports HRC? I keep hearing all this stuff from the GOP about how he is the 41st vote to kill the bill.

58 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:27:57pm

re: #51 Decatur Deb

They only pay me three cents a comment, here. Two cents for puns.

//one cent for sarc

Charles PAYS you? I bet he gets more every time you click on an Amazon link. /

59 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:28:03pm

re: #47 brookly red

Hah! Too true.

60 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:28:10pm

re: #55 deeezle

Dems releasing internal polling and sending resources up there. Not a sign of extreme confidence. Its closer than it should be.

I don't know what to think about Scott Brown - he supported Cap N Trade and health care reform. He was on Hannity last week, transcript here [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

He isn't going to win, but its an interesting election.

lots of out of state $$ coming in on both sides... I am looking at it as a proxy war.

61 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:28:49pm

re: #55 deeezle

Dems releasing internal polling and sending resources up there. Not a sign of extreme confidence. Its closer than it should be.

I don't know what to think about Scott Brown - he supported Cap N Trade and health care reform. He was on Hannity last week, transcript here [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

He isn't going to win, but its an interesting election.

He did? This is from his website:

"I oppose a national cap and trade program because of the higher costs that families and businesses would incur."

62 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:30:00pm

re: #56 Jolo5309

Oh I know, and there are children that get hurt or kidnapped, but it definitely is not as common as the media wants us to think.

I don't think they care what we think, it's just a market side-effect. But it does erode the confidence we had in each other. (So does ten hours a week of Lawn Order, though I like the show.)

63 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:31:36pm

re: #57 Soap_Man

He supports HRC? I keep hearing all this stuff from the GOP about how he is the 41st vote to kill the bill.

I don't see how. That bill will be finalized before the SOTU, and it's unlikely the winner will be seated by then. The Democrats, in fact, have already announced their intention to delay final certification of the election results until after the health care bill is signed, presumably only if their vote is in question.

64 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:31:40pm

re: #61 TampaKnight

He did? This is from his website:

"I oppose a national cap and trade program because of the higher costs that families and businesses would incur."

Regardless of one's stance on the issue; it it kind of perversely satisfying to see a political stance that is so puritanically pure, as in ; "I oppose anything that costs money".

/

65 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:31:50pm

re: #61 TampaKnight

He did? This is from his website:

"I oppose a national cap and trade program because of the higher costs that families and businesses would incur."

That doesn't mean he didn't support it before. Mark Kirk (R-Ill) voted for it, but now that he is running for the Senate, he thinks it is a terrible idea.

66 deeezle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:31:51pm

re: #61 TampaKnight

Sorry, should've been more precise. He doesn't support whats in the Senate. His position as a state senator in MA has been different.

Ill look for a source to back that up.

67 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:31:54pm

re: #43 freetoken

Most people do not think of it this way but when you rate a video at youtube, you are actually doing work for Google for free.

68 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:32:17pm

re: #58 Naso Tang

Charles PAYS you? I bet he gets more every time you click on an Amazon link. /

Not Charles, Soros. It's too hard to exchange NIS in Lower Alabama.

69 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:34:41pm

re: #68 Decatur Deb

Not Charles, Soros. It's too hard to exchange NIS in Lower Alabama.

I'm sure I'll regret this but; huh?

70 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:35:23pm

re: #62 Decatur Deb

I don't think they care what we think, it's just a market side-effect. But it does erode the confidence we had in each other. (So does ten hours a week of Lawn Order, though I like the show.)

I think there is more weird crimes and although everyone thinks I'm nuts I think it has to do with all the crap that's in our water and food. I saw a show years ago about a small country (Puerto Rico I think) where the little girls were maturing very young, like about 8 yrs old. It turned out it was caused by the hormones that they fed the chickens to make them grow faster.

Our water if full of medications, hormones and God knows what else. How could it not effect us? And who knows what they are feeding livestock these days.

IMO we should have zero tolerance for dirty water, but how are we to know?

71 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:37:29pm

re: #69 Naso Tang

New Israeli Shekels.

72 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:38:17pm

re: #71 Decatur Deb

New Israeli Shekels.

I should read more.

73 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:38:56pm

re: #70 Kewalo

I think there is more weird crimes and although everyone thinks I'm nuts I think it has to do with all the crap that's in our water and food. I saw a show years ago about a small country (Puerto Rico I think) where the little girls were maturing very young, like about 8 yrs old. It turned out it was caused by the hormones that they fed the chickens to make them grow faster.

Our water if full of medications, hormones and God knows what else. How could it not effect us? And who knows what they are feeding livestock these days.

IMO we should have zero tolerance for dirty water, but how are we to know?

I don't know about the water but the growth hormones in beef are having some unintended effects.

74 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:40:07pm

re: #70 Kewalo

You're nuts, but not that nuts.

A) The crap in the water and food definitely affects us, but

B) There is no reason to think that there really are more weird crimes these days than in the past, or in places without that crap in the food and the water.

75 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:40:35pm

re: #72 Naso Tang

It's playing pretty far inside the Zionist check shtick.

76 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:43:09pm

re: #74 Obdicut


B) There is no reason to think that there really are more weird crimes these days than in the past, or in places without that crap in the food and the water.

We just don't have good baseline stats for days of yore. If Billy the Kid really got 21 men before he made drinking age, he's a good poster boy for "serial killer"..

77 EB71  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:43:53pm

re: #63 SixDegrees

That would be quite something, even in light of the steps taken in Mass. to even seat an interim Sen. after Sen. Kennedy's demise. If Brown were to win the 1/19 special election, withholding certification would be rather rough, even by the standards of politics. It would be worse than if former Sen. Coleman in MN and the Republican Party had continued challenging the election results after the MN Supreme Court in order to prevent the seating of Sen. Franken, the 60th vote. Except the Republicans didn't do that.

78 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:44:05pm

Tea Party protest against American businesses.....
Tea Party at North American Auto Show January 11


Yes those are LaRouche supporters who seem to be quite welcome at the event.....
LaRoush supporters show up at Detroit tea party protest 1-11-2010

79 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:44:12pm

Ted Olson's opening statement:

This case is about marriage and equality. Plaintiffs are being denied both the right to marry, and the right to equality under the law.

The Supreme Court of the United States has repeatedly described the right to marriage as “one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men;” a “basic civil right;” a component of the constitutional rights to liberty, privacy, association, and intimate choice; an expression of emotional support and public commitment; the exercise of spiritual unity; and a fulfillment of one’s self.

In short, in the words of the highest court in the land, marriage is “the most important relation in life,” and “of fundamental importance for all individuals.”

As the witnesses in this case will elaborate, marriage is central to life in America. It promotes mental, physical and emotional health and the economic strength and stability of those who enter into a marital union. It is the building block of family, neighborhood and community. The California Supreme Court has declared that the right to marry is of “central importance to an individual’s opportunity to live a happy, meaningful, and satisfying life as a full member of society.”

Proposition 8 ended the dream of marriage, the most important relation in life, for the plaintiffs and hundreds of thousands of Californians.

Opening Statement

80 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:46:25pm

re: #76 Decatur Deb

The number of European royals who would have qualified for serial killers is pretty damn high, too. This is a nifty book on that subject, though it tends to focus more on the political killing than the "I feel like killing me some peasants" killing. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

Not to mention the ghoulish spectacle of public messy executions, which gave everyone a vicarious kill-thrill.

81 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:46:45pm

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Tea Party protest against American businesses...
Tea Party at North American Auto Show January 11

[Video]

Tea Dweeb Party /

82 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:47:51pm

re: #80 Obdicut

The number of European royals who would have qualified for serial killers is pretty damn high, too. This is a nifty book on that subject, though it tends to focus more on the political killing than the "I feel like killing me some peasants" killing. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

Not to mention the ghoulish spectacle of public messy executions, which gave everyone a vicarious kill-thrill.

Let's go serfing now, everybody serfing now...

83 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:47:52pm

re: #74 Obdicut

You're nuts, but not that nuts.

A) The crap in the water and food definitely affects us, but

B) There is no reason to think that there really are more weird crimes these days than in the past, or in places without that crap in the food and the water.

HAHAHAHA!!! I had to give you an upding for making me laugh.

I do think there are more sexual crimes then before. And while I know a lot of people think it's due to society I think it's the other way around and has more to do with our bodies reacting to substances in our food and water.

I also think that we may find out that is also causing the hike in autism.

84 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:47:53pm

re: #80 Obdicut

The number of European royals who would have qualified for serial killers is pretty damn high, too. This is a nifty book on that subject, though it tends to focus more on the political killing than the "I feel like killing me some peasants" killing. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

Not to mention the ghoulish spectacle of public messy executions, which gave everyone a vicarious kill-thrill.

well the non-royal leaders do have a pretty big body count too...

85 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:48:49pm

Hey Evening Lizards!

How has the day been?

86 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:49:40pm

re: #85 ggt

Hey Evening Lizards!

How has the day been?

The usual. Politics and mass murder.

87 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:51:08pm

re: #86 Decatur Deb

The usual. Politics and mass murder.

/death panels??

88 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:51:25pm

Here's more: NAIAS 2010 Protesters


Including a lovely sign "Obama is a cracker."

89 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:53:39pm

re: #83 Kewalo

HAHAHAHA!!! I had to give you an upding for making me laugh.

I do think there are more sexual crimes then before. And while I know a lot of people think it's due to society I think it's the other way around and has more to do with our bodies reacting to substances in our food and water.

I also think that we may find out that is also causing the hike in autism.

You think an increase in sexual crimes has "to do with our bodies reacting to substances in our food and water?"

90 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:54:03pm

re: #83 Kewalo

But why do you feel there are more sexual crimes than in the past? Is it just your gut telling you that, or do you have actual data

The changing attitudes towards women alone would make me think the exact opposite, or rather, would make me think we classify a lot more things as crimes now, but those very same things happened in the past with great, great frequency.

re: #84 brookly red

True, but I meat ye olde days, where most of the leaders were, to one extent or another 'royal'.

91 deeezle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:54:23pm

re: #74 Obdicut

There are also Environmental estrogens which affect kids quite a bit, particularly at puberty.

92 John Neverbend  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:54:43pm

re: #89 Gus 802

You think an increase in sexual crimes has "to do with our bodies reacting to substances in our food and water?"

General Ripper was right. Damn.

93 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:54:47pm

re: #83 Kewalo

I think you are guessing and don't know what the hell you are talking about. Many forms of Autism are through genetic causes. If you think you know what causes autism, why don't you submit a paper to a peer reviewed journal?

Here are quite a few lectures that detail our current understandings about the various types.
[Link: www.youtube.com...]

94 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:54:53pm

re: #89 Gus 802

You think an increase in sexual crimes has "to do with our bodies reacting to substances in our food and water?"

/they effect our precious bodily fluids you know...

95 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:55:22pm

re: #92 John Neverbend

General Ripper was right. Damn.

You'll have to answer to the Coca Cola company!

/

96 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:56:03pm

re: #91 deeezle

There are also Environmental estrogens which affect kids quite a bit, particularly at puberty.

Got a link to a scientific paper demonstrating such a link?

97 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:56:38pm

re: #85 ggt

Hey Evening Lizards!

How has the day been?

Improving. Up to 25 degrees today (always talk of the weather when nothing better comes to mind).

98 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:56:48pm

re: #70 Kewalo

I think there is more weird crimes and although everyone thinks I'm nuts I think it has to do with all the crap that's in our water and food. I saw a show years ago about a small country (Puerto Rico I think) where the little girls were maturing very young, like about 8 yrs old. It turned out it was caused by the hormones that they fed the chickens to make them grow faster.

Our water if full of medications, hormones and God knows what else. How could it not effect us? And who knows what they are feeding livestock these days.

IMO we should have zero tolerance for dirty water, but how are we to know?

It's Plastics!

/

99 John Neverbend  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:57:08pm

I just saw Ed Koch being interviewed by Cavuto. He was his usual ebullient self and was calling for profiling of aircraft passengers.

100 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:57:58pm

re: #90 Obdicut

But why do you feel there are more sexual crimes than in the past? Is it just your gut telling you that, or do you have actual data

The changing attitudes towards women alone would make me think the exact opposite, or rather, would make me think we classify a lot more things as crimes now, but those very same things happened in the past with great, great frequency.

well that's Europe, now if we look at other places in the world, same old story.

101 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:58:00pm

re: #89 Gus 802

Not entirely...but yes.

102 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:58:04pm

re: #99 John Neverbend

I just saw Ed Koch being interviewed by Cavuto. He was his usual ebullient self and was calling for profiling of aircraft passengers.

What do you have against profiling, or was that a supportive comment? /

103 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:58:19pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Here's more: NAIAS 2010 Protesters

[Video]
Including a lovely sign "Obama is a cracker."

Lord have mercy. What the heck is around Obama's body? An elephant?

Mad As Hell guy and Sunglasses Auto guy were kinda cute.

104 abolitionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:58:50pm

re: #99 John Neverbend

Is that the one where he mentions the Fort Hood shooting in Alabama? (I know, Texas.)

105 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:59:44pm

re: #104 abolitionist

Is that the one where he mentions the Fort Hood shooting in Alabama? (I know, Texas.)

/Hey, it's still one of the 57 states...

106 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 3:59:56pm

re: #103 marjoriemoon

Lord have mercy. What the heck is around Obama's body? An elephant?

Mad As Hell guy and Sunglasses Auto guy were kinda cute.

He appears to be painted as a parrot. Hence the cracker stmt? Who the hell knows what these people think.!!

107 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:00:34pm

re: #101 Kewalo

Not entirely...but yes.

Forcible rape rates are on a downward trend. It peaked at 42.3 in 1991. 2007 show a rate of 30.0. Don't see a "hockey stick" here.

[Link: bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov...]

108 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:00:54pm

re: #100 brookly red

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you mean. What do you mean by 'in the rest of the world, same old story'?

109 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:02:05pm

re: #106 Stanley Sea

He appears to be painted as a parrot. Hence the cracker stmt? Who the hell knows what these people think.!!

Ohh! I was trying to find out how to fit the cracker with the elephant and I couldn't get it lol

110 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:02:26pm

re: #108 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you mean. What do you mean by 'in the rest of the world, same old story'?

in places like Africa & certain Middle Eastern countries there has not been much social progress.

111 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:02:42pm

Has Harry Reid given up his majority leader position yet?

112 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:03:06pm

re: #83 Kewalo

HAHAHAHA!!! I had to give you an upding for making me laugh.

I do think there are more sexual crimes then before. And while I know a lot of people think it's due to society I think it's the other way around and has more to do with our bodies reacting to substances in our food and water.

I also think that we may find out that is also causing the hike in autism.

You are absolutely incorrect. FBI uniform statistics on crimes of all nature, if you look as sex crimes you will notice that they've been trending steadily downwards across all types. Some speculators state that might be an effect of internet porn becoming more available.

113 John Neverbend  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:03:17pm

re: #102 Naso Tang

What do you have against profiling, or was that a supportive comment? /

It was supportive, but he's ebullient.

114 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:03:43pm

re: #103 marjoriemoon

I think that's supposed to be Obama's head on a vulture's body.

115 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:03:46pm

re: #83 Kewalo

HAHAHAHA!!! I had to give you an upding for making me laugh.

I do think there are more sexual crimes then before. And while I know a lot of people think it's due to society I think it's the other way around and has more to do with our bodies reacting to substances in our food and water.

I also think that we may find out that is also causing the hike in autism.

What we do have is a 24/7 news cycle and access to events as they occur through the internet and news media. That might tend to make it appear there are more sexual crimes, when there really aren't. "Something in the water" is just a strange, strange idea.

116 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:04:08pm

re: #111 Taqyia2Me

Has Harry Reid given up his majority leader position yet?

Don't hold your breath.

117 John Neverbend  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:04:10pm

re: #104 abolitionist

Is that the one where he mentions the Fort Hood shooting in Alabama? (I know, Texas.)

I only saw the last 2 minutes, and he didn't mention Fort Hood.

118 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:04:29pm

re: #115 reine.de.tout

What we do have is a 24/7 news cycle and access to events as they occur through the internet and news media. That might tend to make it appear there are more sexual crimes, when there really aren't. "Something in the water" is just a strange, strange idea.

/Minnesota?

119 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:05:06pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout

I think that's supposed to be Obama's head on a vulture's body.

Vulture! Ok. I just realized I could click on it. Still, it looks bizarre.

Of course the Hitler mustache is always a nice touch :(

120 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:05:40pm

re: #115 reine.de.tout

Sounds like a JBS idea.

121 John Neverbend  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:05:47pm

re: #96 SixDegrees

Got a link to a scientific paper demonstrating such a link?

I'm not sure if this quite fits the bill, but:

New Study: Autism Linked to Environment

122 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:05:56pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

Don't hold your breath.

I won't but it actually be better for the dems should he resign his actual senate seat at this point.

123 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:07:20pm

re: #120 Thanos

Sounds like a JBS idea.

It sounds completely whacked out to me, JBS or not.

124 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:07:40pm

re: #90 Obdicut

But why do you feel there are more sexual crimes than in the past? Is it just your gut telling you that, or do you have actual data

The changing attitudes towards women alone would make me think the exact opposite, or rather, would make me think we classify a lot more things as crimes now, but those very same things happened in the past with great, great frequency.

I wish I could say it was more then just a gut feeling but it isn't. But I'm old and I've been paying attention. I'm not saying that hormones in the water cause all sex crimes but it can't be helping our children to get doses of hormones while they are maturing.

[Link: www.bu.edu...]

And I think some of the things we have done with sex crime laws are ridiculous and go too far.

125 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:07:47pm

re: #122 Taqyia2Me

I won't but it actually be better for the dems should he resign his actual senate seat at this point.

not as long as the health care bill still lives...

126 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:08:14pm

re: #125 brookly red

not as long as the health care bill still lives...

Pride comes before the fall and all....

127 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:08:44pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Here's more: NAIAS 2010 Protesters

[Video]
Including a lovely sign "Obama is a cracker."

Oh, fer cryin' out loud
Why don't those people STFU and disappear, already!
Do they realize how stupid they look?

128 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:09:01pm

re: #115 reine.de.tout

What we do have is a 24/7 news cycle and access to events as they occur through the internet and news media. That might tend to make it appear there are more sexual crimes, when there really aren't. "Something in the water" is just a strange, strange idea.

Yeah, the "Mean World Syndrome." There are actually some interesting studies about how the more a person watches television, the more they elevate crime statistics. The less a person watches television or follows broadcast news, the more accurate their view of how much crime there is in society.

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:09:27pm

re: #83 Kewalo

HAHAHAHA!!! I had to give you an upding for making me laugh.

I do think there are more sexual crimes then before. And while I know a lot of people think it's due to society I think it's the other way around and has more to do with our bodies reacting to substances in our food and water.

I also think that we may find out that is also causing the hike in autism.

I think there are just as many as before, they are just being reported now. There are more social mechanisms to deal with them.

130 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:09:29pm

re: #126 Taqyia2Me

Pride comes before the fall and all...

I don't see many proud about this... in fact there seems to be a bit of shame going around.

131 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:10:02pm

re: #121 John Neverbend

I'm not sure if this quite fits the bill, but:

New Study: Autism Linked to Environment

I saw that report last week. It's conclusions have already been challenged.

The most likely explanation for increase in reported cases is simply a changing diagnostic profile.

132 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:10:07pm

re: #128 Soap_Man

Yeah, the "Mean World Syndrome." There are actually some interesting studies about how the more a person watches television, the more they elevate crime statistics. The less a person watches television or follows broadcast news, the more accurate their view of how much crime there is in society.

My own personal self-study experience is that if I watch too much news, I am more fearful when I go out.

133 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:10:16pm

re: #130 brookly red

I don't see many proud about this... in fact there seems to be a bit of shame going around.

The dems are too proud to do the right thing here and shitcan him.

134 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:11:22pm

re: #124 Kewalo

I wish I could say it was more then just a gut feeling but it isn't. But I'm old and I've been paying attention. I'm not saying that hormones in the water cause all sex crimes but it can't be helping our children to get doses of hormones while they are maturing.

[Link: www.bu.edu...]

And I think some of the things we have done with sex crime laws are ridiculous and go too far.

All that's needed now is actual evidence for such a link.

FWIW, there doesn't seem to be any that's actually credible.

135 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:11:24pm

re: #121 John Neverbend

I'm not sure if this quite fits the bill, but:

New Study: Autism Linked to Environment

I linked about 20 lectures above at UC Davis, where the speculation is coming from. The first in the series might actually be the one speculating on environmental factors. The one that covers current *accepted* knowledge best is titled "Where are we with the Autisms?"

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

136 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:11:32pm

re: #121 John Neverbend

I'm not sure if this quite fits the bill, but:

New Study: Autism Linked to Environment

Interesting. At least they aren't blaming vaccines.

Many parent groups believe that childhood vaccines are responsible because they contained thimerosal, a mercury compound used as a preservative. But thimerosal was removed from most vaccines in 1999, and autism rates are still rising.

137 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:11:58pm

re: #130 brookly red

I don't see many proud about this... in fact there seems to be a bit of shame going around.

We Dems do gaffe shame well, from sheer practice. Might make it a convention event.

138 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:11:58pm

re: #133 Taqyia2Me

The dems are too proud to do the right thing here and shitcan him.

Well, he's the fourth most powerful person in the party, third if you don't count Biden (which I don't.) Not an easy person to get rid of.

139 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:12:34pm

re: #127 reine.de.tout

Oh, fer cryin' out loud
Why don't those people STFU and disappear, already!
Do they realize how stupid they look?

No, they don't. Instapundit and Dan Riehl are both linking to those videos without any condemnation of the LaRouche supporters and the Tea Partiers on the scene don't seem too bothered by them either.
I wasn't a big fan of the auto bailouts either but it's in really poor taste to show up and protest against American businesses who are creating American jobs and this point. It just looks bad.

140 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:12:55pm

re: #124 Kewalo

I'm mainly taking issue with the idea that there are more sex crimes now than in the past. I don't think that's true, for the reasons I've already said: many things that are now crimes used to be perfectly legal. And, as has already been demonstrated, date rape is in decline.

I think that you can make perfectly good claims on health alone that hormones in the water aren't a good idea, without making claims that there is no direct substantiation for him.

141 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:13:07pm

re: #133 Taqyia2Me

The dems are too proud to do the right thing here and shitcan him.

nothing to do with pride. If they were proud of what they were trying to do they would do it out in the open and "ahem" be proud of it.

142 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:13:52pm

re: #93 Thanos

I think you are guessing and don't know what the hell you are talking about. Many forms of Autism are through genetic causes. If you think you know what causes autism, why don't you submit a paper to a peer reviewed journal?

Here are quite a few lectures that detail our current understandings about the various types.
[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Sure I'm guessing and so is everyone else.

143 William of Orange  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:14:02pm

Some terribly sad niews from the Netherlands. Just an hour ago it was announced that the last surviving member of the Group that helped the Frank family in WWII , Miep Gies, has died at the grand old age of 100.

Report from the BBC.

When the family were found by the authorities, they were deported, and Anne died of typhus in the German concentration camp of Bergen-Belsen.

It was Mrs Gies who collected up Anne's papers and locked them away, hoping that one day she would be able to give them back to the girl.

In the event, she returned them to Otto Frank, who survived the war, and helped him compile them into a diary that was published in 1947.

It went on to sell tens of millions of copies in dozens of languages.

Mrs Gies became a kind of ambassador for the diary, travelling to talk about Anne Frank and her experiences, campaigning against Holocaust denial and refuting allegations that the diary was a forgery.

For her efforts to protect the Franks and to preserve their memory, Mrs Gies won many accolades.


She's done so much for the world. Anne wrote it, Miep was it's spiritual mother.

Rest in peace. :(

144 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:15:29pm

re: #124 Kewalo

Your writer is a student, have a link to scientific study?

Her fascination with all things gross, weird, and mysterious led her to believe that she wanted a Ph.D. in biomedical engineering. But she was wrong.

Today, Leah writes about medicine, biology, and the environment.

145 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:16:06pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Here's more: NAIAS 2010 Protesters

[Video]
Including a lovely sign "Obama is a cracker."

Imagine my surprise when I clicked on that picture and saw not one, but two Obama as Hitler signs right next to that one. Shocka!

146 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:16:28pm

re: #142 Kewalo

Sure I'm guessing and so is everyone else.

I'd prefer to trust medical issues to medical researchers, rather than people with no knowledge of medicine or epidemiology or disease who are just guessing.

147 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:16:48pm

re: #140 Obdicut

I'm mainly taking issue with the idea that there are more sex crimes now than in the past. I don't think that's true, for the reasons I've already said: many things that are now crimes used to be perfectly legal. And, as has already been demonstrated, date rape is in decline.

I think that you can make perfectly good claims on health alone that hormones in the water aren't a good idea, without making claims that there is no direct substantiation for him.

Social perceptions have changed -- (and, yes, I think Oprah had something to do with some of it). Child molestation wasn't even on the radar 30 years ago. A man couldn't rape his own wife, legally --what? 40 years ago.

I have a hard time with statistics that don't take long range data into account. This topic can't be analized in 10 year increments with only one set of glasses --every school of the university from biological sciences to anthropology has information to contribute.

148 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:16:55pm

re: #140 Obdicut

I think that you can make perfectly good claims on health alone that hormones in the water aren't a good idea, without making claims that there is no direct substantiation for him.

Yes, I meant to end with a preposition.

re: #142 Kewalo

Others are actually doing research in the subject, careful, methodical, and driving our understanding of the field forwards. So no, not everyone is just guessing. Some are working on the problem.

149 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:17:00pm

re: #121 John Neverbend

I'm not sure if this quite fits the bill, but:

New Study: Autism Linked to Environment

I believe that article might reflect a bias on the part of the author Marla Cone. This article present a different interpretation of the study:

Local Environment Not Cause of Autism 'Clusters'
California Autism Clusters Linked to Parent Education, Not Local Toxins

Jan. 5, 2010 - If some pollutant triggers autism, it's widespread and not confined to specific geographic areas, finds a study of California autism clusters.

"People seeking the cause of autism have been looking for a smoking gun, but it will be more like dispersed land mines," Irva Hertz-Picciotto, PhD, MPH, tells WebMD.
...
But as it turned out, there was indeed a factor that very likely explained the clusters. Most of the clusters were in areas where women tend to have high educational attainment. Autism cases in all of the clusters were more likely to be reported from families with highly educated mothers, Hertz-Picciotto says.

"I don't think people living in these areas need to be concerned about where their homes are. Thinking about moving away from these areas would be wholly inappropriate," she says.
...
"Our study tells us probably the environmental causes of autism are not going to be found in local contamination, at least in California," Hertz-Picciotto says. "Whatever the environmental contributors are, they are probably more widespread and not linked to a hazardous local factor."

The study also suggests that there are a lot more kids with autism -- in California, at least -- who are not getting the services they need. In Denmark, where all kids are screened for autism, parental education doesn't raise autism risk. But it is in the U.S. and the U.K., where access to screening is not universal.

"This calls for some thinking about what we can do to increase autism awareness in the general population and bring services to these families, so that parents with education and means are not the only ones able to address the health of their children in the best possible way," Shih says.

Thus far this looks rather inconclusive.

150 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:17:33pm

If I was an Afro-American I think I would resent a politician's tendency to throw in some ebonics when addressing Afro-American audiences.
To me that seems condescending and racist.

151 John Neverbend  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:17:36pm

re: #131 SixDegrees

I saw that report last week. It's conclusions have already been challenged.


I just read the paper, and I'm not sure that its conclusions were markedly different from the current belief (not the only belief) that the cause is a mix of genetics and environment. I couldn't find any rebuttal on line. Who has challenged the paper?

152 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:18:17pm

re: #146 SixDegrees

I'd prefer to trust medical issues to medical researchers, rather than people with no knowledge of medicine or epidemiology or disease who are just guessing.

I took it as a figure of speech.

153 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:19:01pm

re: #151 John Neverbend

See #149 for the more widespread interpretation.

154 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:19:20pm

re: #142 Kewalo

Yes, but when the scientists guess they use actual real facts, and they test their guesses against reality. You just throw shit out there and some of it is demonstrably out of synchronicity with reality. See the FBI crime stats link I posted above.

155 John Neverbend  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:20:33pm

re: #153 SixDegrees

See #149 for the more widespread interpretation.

Yes, I read that article as well.

156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:20:39pm

re: #154 Thanos

Yes, but when the scientists guess they use actual real facts, and they test their guesses against reality. You just throw shit out there and some of it is demonstrably out of synchronicity with reality. See the FBI crime stats link I posted above.

Where there is violence, there are guns; therefore guns cause violence.

correlation does not indicate causation

;)

157 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:20:53pm

re: #115 reine.de.tout

What we do have is a 24/7 news cycle and access to events as they occur through the internet and news media. That might tend to make it appear there are more sexual crimes, when there really aren't. "Something in the water" is just a strange, strange idea.

Really not so strange.

[Link: www.naturalnews.com...]

We know that the meat industry adds hormones to animals to make them grow faster...right? Why should we just believe that our systems won't react in some way?

158 John Neverbend  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:21:24pm

re: #156 ggt

correlation does not indicate causation

;)

Well said, Hume.

159 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:22:09pm

Few show up for protest at Detroit auto show

Charlie Gennara thought there would be a sizable showing for a planned "tea party" protest outside the annual international auto show in Detroit on Monday.

For the first 45 minutes, though, it was just him and one other person voicing their displeasure with the billions in aid spent by the government on General Motors, Chrysler and auto lender GMAC Financial Services.

"I didn't expect this," said Gennara, a 58-year-old retired carpenter from Northville, Mich. "Most of the tea parties I've been to I've seen 300 or a couple hundred at least."
....
Joan Fabiano, who organizes tea parties as part of a group called Grassroots in Michigan, e-mailed supporters asking them not to show up Monday, saying such action could hurt business in the state.

"I'd like to think I had something to do with that," Fabiano said of the low turnout Monday.

Fabiano, of Holt, Mich., worked at GM for 30 years and believes protesting at the auto show sends the wrong message.

"I think it was ill-conceived," she said. "It only hurts fellow Michiganders and Michigan commerce. Businesses are already hurting."

160 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:22:13pm

re: #157 Kewalo

Really not so strange.

[Link: www.naturalnews.com...]

We know that the meat industry adds hormones to animals to make them grow faster...right? Why should we just believe that our systems won't react in some way?

Maybe it explains why my 14-year-old nephew is six inches taller than I am.

(Half kidding)

161 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:22:21pm

re: #121 John Neverbend

I'm not sure if this quite fits the bill, but:

New Study: Autism Linked to Environment

Thank you, I hadn't seen that article.

162 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:22:27pm

Over at DeSmog blog, there is concern that the new Russian owner of the (usually progressive) UK paper The Independent is going to appoint a rather controversial new editor in charge of the paper,Mr. Rod Liddle.

Besides the AGW-denialism (obviously the concern for DeSmog blog), Liddle tends to go places that... how shall we put it, RSM would find comfortable.

From the Charlotte Gore blog:

Right, being the one-man think tank that he is, Rod Liddle has decided to troll the internet with a nasty piece of insinuation about the ‘human filth’ that is young afro-Caribbean men living in London.
Behold and tremble as Brain-trust speaks:

The overwhelming majority of street crime, knife crime, gun crime, robbery and crimes of sexual violence in London is carried out by young men from the African-Caribbean community. Of course, in return, we have rap music, goat curry and a far more vibrant and diverse understanding of cultures which were once alien to us. For which, many thanks.

Let me count the ways.

[...]

163 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:22:39pm

re: #121 John Neverbend

I'm not sure if this quite fits the bill, but:

New Study: Autism Linked to Environment

It makes me think of how DDT, which has no measurable effect on humans almost brought many birds of prey to the brink of extinction. I wouldn't rule out anything, including that roach spray I use regularly, but neither will I join the legions of talking heads on TV who can prove nothing.

164 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:23:07pm

re: #156 ggt

Where there is violence, there are guns; therefore guns cause violence.

correlation does not indicate causation

;)

But if we look at the rape stats then there isn't even a correlation.

Non Causa Pro Causa?

165 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:23:10pm

re: #157 Kewalo

Really not so strange.

[Link: www.naturalnews.com...]

We know that the meat industry adds hormones to animals to make them grow faster...right? Why should we just believe that our systems won't react in some way?

Well, for one thing, hormones act in the bloodstream, and are completely broken down in the digestive tract when eaten, just like any other protein. It's quite impossible to see any mechanism by which hormones could act as hormones after digestion.

166 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:23:20pm

re: #157 Kewalo

Really not so strange.

[Link: www.naturalnews.com...]

We know that the meat industry adds hormones to animals to make them grow faster...right? Why should we just believe that our systems won't react in some way?

Because we, well me, don't have degrees in biology, or genetics, or any science. I don't know what my gastric juices do to the chemicals I injest that another animal injested. There are too many factors involved to make such a conclusion.

I think, personally, society has to make choices. We either find a way to feed ALL the people we need to feed and deal with any risks, or we let some people starve.

Which would you prefer?

167 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:23:50pm

re: #163 Naso Tang

It makes me think of how DDT, which has no measurable effect on humans almost brought many birds of prey to the brink of extinction. I wouldn't rule out anything, including that roach spray I use regularly, but neither will I join the legions of talking heads on TV who can prove nothing.

"I love the smell of DDT in the morning! It smells like ,,,, victory!!"

//

168 William of Orange  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:24:08pm

Wikipedia confirms.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

169 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:24:53pm

re: #166 ggt

Because we, well me, don't have degrees in biology, or genetics, or any science. I don't know what my gastric juices do to the chemicals I injest that another animal injested. There are too many factors involved to make such a conclusion.

I think, personally, society has to make choices. We either find a way to feed ALL the people we need to feed and deal with any risks, or we let some people starve.

Which would you prefer?

No true Scotsman would let anyone starve.

170 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:24:59pm

re: #156 ggt

Where there is violence, there are guns; therefore guns cause violence.

correlation does not indicate causation

;)

No, but correlation can indicate ability of causation.

171 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:25:15pm

re: #163 Naso Tang

It makes me think of how DDT, which has no measurable effect on humans almost brought many birds of prey to the brink of extinction. I wouldn't rule out anything, including that roach spray I use regularly, but neither will I join the legions of talking heads on TV who can prove nothing.


IIRC, The DDT kills birds was never proven in double-blind controlled tests. I love to see documentation as I did a search some years ago and couldn't find any.

172 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:25:16pm

re: #157 Kewalo

Really not so strange.

[Link: www.naturalnews.com...]

We know that the meat industry adds hormones to animals to make them grow faster...right? Why should we just believe that our systems won't react in some way?

Not just animal hormones. Sewage treatment can't handle a lot of human contraceptives:

[Link: linkinghub.elsevier.com...]

173 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:26:13pm

re: #167 sattv4u2

"I love the smell of DDT in the morning! It smells like ,,, victory!!"

//

Yeah, I remember walking behind the truck spraying it and imagining I could hear the suckers hit the ground.

174 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:26:53pm

re: #166 ggt

We either find a way to feed ALL the people we need to feed and deal with any risks, or we let some people starve.

Which would you prefer?

when did you stop beating your wife!
It's not that cut and dry, unfortunately. There will always be people starving and many times it has nothing to do with how much we (world) can produce. There are natural phenomenom that contributes to starvation also

175 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:26:56pm

re: #170 Naso Tang

No, but correlation can indicate ability of causation.

True, but how often do people think that far? Easier to get rid of the doctors because where there are doctors, there seem to be sick people. Where did that actually happen? China? I can't remember.

Correlation is grounds for more research.

176 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:27:16pm

re: #168 William of Orange

Wikipedia confirms.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

What a sad story! God blessed her with a long life. It makes me weepy. Her memory will be a blessing.

177 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:28:19pm

re: #174 sattv4u2

We either find a way to feed ALL the people we need to feed and deal with any risks, or we let some people starve.

Which would you prefer?

when did you stop beating your wife!
It's not that cut and dry, unfortunately. There will always be people starving and many times it has nothing to do with how much we (world) can produce. There are natural phenomenom that contributes to starvation also

LiL Kim in N Korea is not a natural phenomenon...

178 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:28:37pm

re: #174 sattv4u2

We either find a way to feed ALL the people we need to feed and deal with any risks, or we let some people starve.

Which would you prefer?

when did you stop beating your wife!
It's not that cut and dry, unfortunately. There will always be people starving and many times it has nothing to do with how much we (world) can produce. There are natural phenomenom that contributes to starvation also

I know, I know. This is a hot button topic for me.

People are always going to get sick too --whether we mess with food production or not.

179 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:28:47pm

re: #157 Kewalo

Really not so strange.

[Link: www.naturalnews.com...]

We know that the meat industry adds hormones to animals to make them grow faster...right? Why should we just believe that our systems won't react in some way?

I never said I didn't believe our systems would not react to what's in our food or water.

What I take issue with is your assumption or guess that what's in our food and water is contributing to increasing sex crimes (and actually, it does not appear crime is increasing at all). I've just never seen a study indicating that's the case.

180 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:29:24pm

re: #165 SixDegrees

You can get hormones orally, but they're fat-soluble-- that's why the meat thing is an actual concern, but having them in the water is much less of a concern.

181 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:29:29pm

re: #177 brookly red

LiL Kim in N Korea is not a natural phenomenon...

A freak of nature isn't a natural phenom!?!?!

182 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:30:11pm

re: #171 ggt

IIRC, The DDT kills birds was never proven in double-blind controlled tests. I love to see documentation as I did a search some years ago and couldn't find any.

You can educate me if you wish, but I have not seen a refutation of this, nor of the fact that there has been a remarkable resurgence of birds of prey since DDT was abandoned.

In case you are partially informed; DDT does not kill birds, it makes them produce thin eggshells which are prone to breakage and therefore reduces reproduction. Hence the analogy of a specific, if subtle, early gestation impact.

183 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:30:13pm

re: #144 Thanos

Your writer is a student, have a link to scientific study?

Evidently you missed my first post on the subject, where I said that some people would think I'm crazy. But it is still my opinion. At no time did I say there was scientific proof. How can there be when no one seems to be studying it?

And why are you being so hostile? Aren't I allowed to express my opinion? What's up with that anyway?

184 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:30:47pm

re: #178 ggt

I know, I know. This is a hot button topic for me.

People are always going to get sick too --whether we mess with food production or not.

Meanwhile life expectancy continues to rise.

185 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:30:50pm

re: #174 sattv4u2

We either find a way to feed ALL the people we need to feed and deal with any risks, or we let some people starve.

Which would you prefer?

when did you stop beating your wife!
It's not that cut and dry, unfortunately. There will always be people starving and many times it has nothing to do with how much we (world) can produce. There are natural phenomenom that contributes to starvation also

Yes but the best ways to ensure sufficient food are the ones Kewalo is lobbying against here. I bet they are against GM food as well.

remember how Norm stopped cyclic famine in the subcontinent of Asia and in South America?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

186 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:30:59pm

December seemed much colder than average and so far January has been no better. Someone posted a confirming link this morning.
You know, it's strange, but I never thought I'd ever be keeping my fingers crossed for a colder than average winter - but I am.
I guess this means that I do believe in global warming.

187 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:31:10pm

re: #181 sattv4u2

A freak of nature isn't a natural phenom!?!?!

no that was a genuine communist plot...

188 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:31:23pm

re: #179 reine.de.tout

I never said I didn't believe our systems would not react to what's in our food or water.

What I take issue with is your assumption or guess that what's in our food and water is contributing to increasing sex crimes (and actually, it does not appear crime is increasing at all). I've just never seen a study indicating that's the case.

Sex crimes?

189 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:32:13pm

re: #185 Thanos

Yes but the best ways to ensure sufficient food are the ones Kewalo is lobbying against here. I bet they are against GM food as well.

remember how Norm stopped cyclic famine in the subcontinent of Asia and in South America?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Also see RIP, Norman Borlaug.

190 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:32:38pm

re: #183 Kewalo

Tons of people are studying this! What the hell are you talking about?

Tons of people are studying autism.

Tons of people are studying the environmental effects of hormones.

So what on earth do you mean by nobody studying this?

191 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:32:57pm

re: #146 SixDegrees

I'd prefer to trust medical issues to medical researchers, rather than people with no knowledge of medicine or epidemiology or disease who are just guessing.

You have no idea of my background, but really is beside the point isn't it? I am just as entitled to my opinion as anyone else. There is no doubt that our water and food is contaminated with heaven knows what. The only question left is what is it doing to us?

192 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:33:23pm

re: #184 Gus 802

Meanwhile life expectancy continues to rise.

I saw recently a suggestion that this may be about to reverse for the first time, in the USA. The reason; obesity.

193 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:33:43pm

re: #181 sattv4u2

A freak of nature isn't a natural phenom!?!?!

War seems to be a natural phenomenon, and it's disruption of farming and distribution is one important source of starvation. We produce a lot of food that never gets where it's needed.

194 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:33:56pm

re: #190 Obdicut

Tons of people are studying this! What the hell are you talking about?

Tons of people are studying autism.

Tons of people are studying the environmental effects of hormones.

So what on earth do you mean by nobody studying this?

/Tons of people are studying obesity...

195 andres  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:34:12pm

Here are two links concerning the recently launched Daily Caller (I know, many people are allergic to Media Matters):

Carlson's Daily Caller debuts with casual joke about rape

Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller kicks things off with gay joke

It's concerning this column by Matt Labash, from the Weekly Standard.

196 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:35:02pm

re: #192 Naso Tang

I saw recently a suggestion that this may be about to reverse for the first time, in the USA. The reason; obesity.

You mean it's because we eat too much? Shucks, I thought obesity was caused by additives. /

197 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:35:28pm

re: #191 Kewalo

Consider for a moment that "I'm just as entitled to my opinion as anyone else" is the same argument that many global warming deniers use, when rejecting the oodles of science on global warming.

You are not as entitled to your opinion as a researcher on the topic, no.

198 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:35:34pm

re: #193 Decatur Deb

War seems to be a natural phenomenon, and it's disruption of farming and distribution is one important source of starvation. We produce a lot of food that never gets where it's needed.

I am still waiting for my free gubermint cheese btw....

199 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:35:58pm

re: #193 Decatur Deb

War seems to be a natural phenomenon, and it's disruption of farming and distribution is one important source of starvation. We produce a lot of food that never gets where it's needed.

I recently 'learned' (subject to validation) that nearly a third of the food grown/produced/manufactured in the Occident ultimately ends up in the garbage.

200 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:36:03pm

re: #149 Gus 802

The link of autisom to intellegence has been known for decades. When my older brother was born in 1968 (with autism, or this wouldn't make sense) the trend noticed was that it was mostly college graduates.

201 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:36:13pm

re: #196 Gus 802

You mean it's because we eat too much? Shucks, I thought obesity was caused by additives. /

Yes, food additive.

202 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:37:15pm

re: #198 brookly red

I am still waiting for my free gubermint cheese btw...

Have you filled out federal form CH-3DD-AR?

203 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:37:15pm

re: #197 Obdicut

Consider for a moment that "I'm just as entitled to my opinion as anyone else" is the same argument that many global warming deniers use, when rejecting the oodles of science on global warming.

You are not as entitled to your opinion as a researcher on the topic, no.

Especially not if they back up their claims with links to somewhat loony Homeopathy sites.

204 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:37:19pm

re: #196 Gus 802

You mean it's because we eat too much? Shucks, I thought obesity was caused by additives. /

adding the pizza to the fried chicken works every time...

205 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:37:34pm

re: #196 Gus 802

You mean it's because we eat too much? Shucks, I thought obesity was caused by additives. /

There are apparently also additives that cause people to eat too much.

206 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:38:16pm

I kinda skimmed; so maybe this was mentioned, one of the definite trends we've seen in children anyways is a trend towards hitting puberty younger (like as young as 9 sometimes).

207 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:38:28pm

re: #198 brookly red

I am still waiting for my free gubermint cheese btw...

Stolen cheese can be way more satisfying.

208 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:38:48pm

re: #172 Decatur Deb

Not just animal hormones. Sewage treatment can't handle a lot of human contraceptives:

[Link: linkinghub.elsevier.com...]

I've been reading about that and what led to my train of thought.

209 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:38:48pm

re: #206 windsagio

err and its often saild/believed to be linked to growth hormones in our food. (No I don't have a study, too lazy)

210 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:38:57pm

re: #202 Obdicut

Have you filled out federal form CH-3DD-AR?

I was gonna but my unicorn ate it....

211 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:39:03pm

re: #198 brookly red

I am still waiting for my free gubermint cheese btw...

The last time I heard of an actual cheese distribution was in KY in the '70s. In the late '50s, storage of excess cheese, butter and other commodities bought by the gov. to support farmers was seen as a major problem.

212 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:39:04pm

re: #191 Kewalo

You have no idea of my background

It's really quite evident, and doesn't draw on rational thought or science much.

213 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:39:06pm

re: #205 ryannon

There are apparently also additives that cause people to eat too much.

You mean like spices?

214 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:39:19pm

re: #205 ryannon

There are apparently also additives that cause people to eat too much.

I really recommend the book "In Defense of Food", which is on the topic. Basic argument; We should mainly eat the foods we evolved to eat, because we evolved to eat them.

215 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:39:30pm

re: #205 ryannon

There are apparently also additives that cause people to eat too much.

Brownies?

216 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:39:51pm

re: #203 Thanos

Especially not if they back up their claims with links to somewhat loony Homeopathy sites.

Run by smelly hippies.

217 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:40:07pm

re: #211 Decatur Deb

Thats the other thing! We should be radiating our food for storage. 100% save, and super-effective.

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:41:04pm

Gotta go tend to the family . .

bbiab

219 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:41:09pm

re: #211 Decatur Deb

The last time I heard of an actual cheese distribution was in KY in the '70s. In the late '50s, storage of excess cheese, butter and other commodities bought by the gov. to support farmers was seen as a major problem.

Velvetia form the 70's should still be good, no?

220 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:41:38pm

re: #212 SixDegrees

It's really quite evident, and doesn't draw on rational thought or science much.

So STFU.

/ugh.

221 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:42:11pm

re: #217 windsagio

Thats the other thing! We should be radiating our food for storage. 100% save, and super-effective.

After the inoculation pundits run their current course, you can be sure the next target will be poor ol gamma rays.

222 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:42:18pm

re: #185 Thanos

Yes but the best ways to ensure sufficient food are the ones Kewalo is lobbying against here. I bet they are against GM food as well.

remember how Norm stopped cyclic famine in the subcontinent of Asia and in South America?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

What in the world are you talking about? Please point to a post where I have lobbied against any food? Do you always make things up to try and prove a point? Sheesh!

223 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:42:18pm

re: #219 brookly red

Velvetia form the 70's should still be good, no?

For packing bearings.

224 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:42:31pm

re: #214 Obdicut

if anyone's interested, theres a summary. Good book, always struck me as a bit 'tilting-at-windmillsey'.

225 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:42:41pm

re: #206 windsagio

Got a link?

226 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:43:00pm

re: #219 brookly red

Velvetia form the 70's should still be good, no?

What do you think you get on frozen pizza?

227 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:43:02pm

re: #182 Naso Tang

You can educate me if you wish, but I have not seen a refutation of this, nor of the fact that there has been a remarkable resurgence of birds of prey since DDT was abandoned.

In case you are partially informed; DDT does not kill birds, it makes them produce thin eggshells which are prone to breakage and therefore reduces reproduction. Hence the analogy of a specific, if subtle, early gestation impact.

In case you are partially informed. Millions died in Africa after the banning of DDT. But at least the birds are doing OK.

228 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:43:25pm

re: #223 Decatur Deb

For packing bearings.

no just put it the microwave... it's fine.

229 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:43:33pm

re: #219 brookly red

Velvetia form the 70's should still be good, no?

That was used up decades ago by the Army Corps of Engineers to reinforce the levees in New Orleans.

230 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:43:33pm

re: #221 Naso Tang

hah! Sadly, they've already won that fight. They use the technique in Europe tho', and you don't even have to refrigerate (nuked then sealed) meat. It just sits on the shelves >

231 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:43:48pm

re: #222 Kewalo

Well since you seem to be lobbying for "food purity" I made the assumption.
Do you think vaccines cause Autism?

232 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:44:24pm

re: #226 Naso Tang

What do you think you get on frozen pizza?

In Brooklyn we kinda look at frozen pizza like instant grits....

233 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:44:26pm

re: #205 ryannon

Due to the ding; we must be of a similar generation. I don't think some people get that one.

234 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:45:38pm

re: #225 Thanos

lol jerk. Fine I'll find one


here:

Researchers have identified an earlier age of the onset of puberty. However, they have based their conclusions on a comparison of data from 1999 with data from 1969. In the earlier example, the sample population was based on a small sample of white girls (200, from Britain). The later study identified as puberty as occurring in 48% of African-American girls by age nine, and 12% of white girls by that age.

235 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:45:40pm

re: #231 Thanos

Well since you seem to be lobbying for "food purity" I made the assumption.
Do you think vaccines cause Autism?

Holy shit.

236 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:46:15pm

re: #231 Thanos

god I hope not, might have to get out my rocket launcher >>

237 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:46:18pm

re: #232 brookly red

In Brooklyn we kinda look at frozen pizza like instant grits...

You ever have a Tombstone frozen pizza? I always thought the oil smelled like model train oil.

238 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:46:58pm

re: #227 rwdflynavy

In case you are partially informed. Millions died in Africa after the banning of DDT. But at least the birds are doing OK.

You are quite right, that it probably still has a use, but if you saw how it was used when I was a child, you might qualify that comment. How many species extinctions do you want to tolerate before you might consider a solution worse than the problem?

239 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:47:09pm

re: #227 rwdflynavy

In case you are partially informed. Millions died in Africa after the banning of DDT. But at least the birds are doing OK.

I don't think DDT was ever banned in Africa.

240 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:47:11pm

re: #237 Gus 802

You ever have a Tombstone frozen pizza? I always thought the oil smelled like model train oil.

I suppose you're against recycling, huh?

241 andres  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:47:33pm

re: #50 TampaKnight

The +15 and even number is under dispute, since those numbers came out on the same day. 2 different polling agencies.

And the even number poll was done to only 200 likely voters.

242 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:47:49pm

re: #238 Naso Tang

You are quite right, that it probably still has a use, but if you saw how it was used when I was a child, you might qualify that comment. How many species extinctions do you want to tolerate before you might consider a solution worse than the problem?

Fuck the bees. Who needs them.

243 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:48:36pm

re: #242 ryannon

We're about to find out!

[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

244 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:49:00pm

re: #242 ryannon

Fuck the bees. Who needs them.

Saturday Night Live.

245 Martinsmithy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:49:08pm

I'm just finishing a great book by Robert Wright, entitled "The Evolution of God." It fits in quite well with my outlook on things religious. I'm wondering if any others reading this have read this book - also I'm wondering if Charles has read it. I recommend it highly as being quite thought-provoking.

246 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:49:29pm

re: #237 Gus 802

You ever have a Tombstone frozen pizza? I always thought the oil smelled like model train oil.

I got some Sicilians right around the corner that still make their own mozzarella fresh for their pies... wtf is a Tombstone frozen pizza? ;)

247 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:50:26pm

re: #243 windsagio

We're about to find out!

[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

I'm pretty sure CCD has been tied to a virus transmitted by bee mites. Instances of it have been noted going back well over a century in North America, suggesting that it has a naturally occurring vector.

248 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:50:47pm

re: #242 ryannon

Fuck the bees. Who needs them.

Bees lay eggs?

249 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:51:03pm

re: #244 Decatur Deb

Saturday Night Live.

Saturday Night Mass Extinction Event

250 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:51:24pm

re: #234 windsagio

lol jerk. Fine I'll find one

here:

Umm Wiki proves nothing, but here's a key line from the study they were referencing:

Previous standards of "normal puberty" were set more than 30 years ago, based on a study of less than 200 girls in a British orphanage in the 1960s

So onset of puberty didnt' really have a valid norm and due to better health systems, studies among many races, etc. it's detected factored and tracked better. Welcome to the computer age.

Thanks for proving my point and disproving yours.

251 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:51:25pm

re: #247 SixDegrees

oh yeah sorry. I wasn't tying it to DDT, just it struck a chord, because the Bees are dying, and it could have a pretty brutal effect on our agriculture.

252 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:51:33pm

I wonder how many more of these we'll see before the 2010 elections:

Candidate to GOP: Sorry, But Tea Party Label Better for Me

Network computer consultant Donn Janes, who filed for Tennessee's 8th district race as a Republican in August, has decided to instead run as an Independent Tea Party candidate this cycle.

Janes, who has bashed the National Republican Congressional Committee for backing gospel singer Stephen Fincher (R) in Tennessee's open 8th district, said he decided to seek a third party nomination because "the National Republican Party continues to aggressively support candidates who lack depth on issues and conservative values, but instead focus on candidates who are able to self fund or raise large sums of money."

Democratic strategists said Monday the move will help their chances to hold the seat of retiring Rep. John Tanner (D) by siphoning off Republican votes in the general election.

Janes made his announcement at a a Tea Party event in Paris, Tenn., on Saturday, about a week after wealthy physician Ron Kirkland of Madison County officially threw his hat into the GOP race.

Janes said last month he expects to report less than $20,000 raised in the fourth quarter of 2009.

CQ Politics presently rates the Tennessee 8 race as a Toss Up.

253 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:51:43pm

re: #246 brookly red

I got some Sicilians right around the corner that still make their own mozzarella fresh for their pies... wtf is a Tombstone frozen pizza? ;)

Sicilian pizza! OMG! That stuff doesn't exist outside of Brooklyn. And if they do make it it's like a rectangular-Chicago-pizza-quiche-withcheddarcheez-thing.

254 allegro  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:51:44pm

re: #248 Naso Tang

Bees lay eggs?

Only the queen. I'll refrain from jokes.

255 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:52:00pm

re: #248 Naso Tang

Bees lay eggs?

Yes, they do. Even workers are capable of laying eggs after a queen dies.

256 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:52:01pm

re: #245 Martinsmithy

I'm just finishing a great book by Robert Wright, entitled "The Evolution of God." It fits in quite well with my outlook on things religious. I'm wondering if any others reading this have read this book - also I'm wondering if Charles has read it. I recommend it highly as being quite thought-provoking.

As in the planet is only six thousand years old?

257 martinsmithy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:52:51pm

re: #14 avanti
From the sublime (see post #245) to the ridiculous (Sarah Palin as a Fox News Commentator)!

258 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:52:56pm

re: #239 SixDegrees

It wasn't. DDT wasn't banned for export, either. It was banned for wide-spraying agricultural use.

Thank god, too, otherwise malaria would be much worse.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

259 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:53:09pm

re: #248 Naso Tang

Bees lay eggs?

It's a strange new development....

260 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:53:30pm

re: #253 Gus 802

Sicilian pizza! OMG! That stuff doesn't exist outside of Brooklyn. And if they do make it it's like a rectangular-Chicago-pizza-quiche-withcheddarcheez- thing.

with fresh tomatoes, onion & hand chopped garlic...

261 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:53:36pm

Hey just a general shout out of thanks to many of you who welcomed one of the new hatchlings, Dragon_Lady, my wife. You folks really made her feel welcome. Like most of us back when, she has a lot to learn about the site, and blogging in general. Classy! Updings to all of you I could track. She will hit 50 comments soon enough to do the right ding thing.

262 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:53:51pm

re: #252 Lidane

There is now a Tea Party? I resent the connection to Independent however.

263 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:53:53pm

re: #115 reine.de.tout

What we do have is a 24/7 news cycle and access to events as they occur through the internet and news media. That might tend to make it appear there are more sexual crimes, when there really aren't. "Something in the water" is just a strange, strange idea.

I agree, the news media likes to put out the more sensational topics to make their ratings go up, so on the whole the amount of sex crimes are probably the same as during the 50's, 60's and 70's but now they're reported more. What I really dislike is waking up in the morning and hearing about them and other heinous crimes as soon as I put on the radio, it makes for a dismal and depressing start to my day.

264 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:53:57pm

re: #260 brookly red

with fresh tomatoes, onion & hand chopped garlic...

Drool.

265 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:54:00pm

re: #249 ryannon

Saturday Night Mass Extinction Event

I've started to put up nests for Mason Bees (which are actually wasps) and about 100x better pollinators than bees. Still like to keep the Apis, though.

266 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:54:16pm

re: #246 brookly red

I got some Sicilians right around the corner that still make their own mozzarella fresh for their pies... wtf is a Tombstone frozen pizza? ;)

You are so lucky.

267 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:54:27pm

re: #253 Gus 802

You can actually get great Sicilian Pizza in Harvard Square.

[Link: www.pinocchiospizza.net...]

Nice guys, real Italian (Calabrese, so appropriate) heritage.

268 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:54:41pm

re: #250 Thanos

wait what is your point, and what is mine?

Mine is that 'puberty often starts as early as 9' (48% of black girls!)

The part about growth hormones, I didn't even try to prove in the link, altho' the article addresses it. "Widely believed" is what I said. And by that, its widely believed and talked about in like, college courses. AFAIK there are no epidemiological studies out on the subject yet, at least not ones that are worth trusting.

Any reason you have such an axe to grind on the subject?

269 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:55:24pm

re: #265 Decatur Deb

I've started to put up nests for Mason Bees (which are actually wasps) and about 100x better pollinators than bees. Still like to keep the Apis, though.

What's their honey taste like?

270 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:55:35pm

re: #267 Obdicut

You can actually get great Sicilian Pizza in Harvard Square.

[Link: www.pinocchiospizza.net...]

Nice guys, real Italian (Calabrese, so appropriate) heritage.

Yeah, I was going to say the Northeast.

271 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:55:53pm

re: #115 reine.de.tout
re: #263 Dragon_Lady

The echo chamber. We hear the same story echoed all day by multiple 24/7 news sources. Then the local news. Every story seems to be bigger.

272 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:55:53pm

re: #261 Rightwingconspirator

Hey just a general shout out of thanks to many of you who welcomed one of the new hatchlings, Dragon_Lady, my wife. You folks really made her feel welcome. Like most of us back when, she has a lot to learn about the site, and blogging in general. Classy! Updings to all of you I could track. She will hit 50 comments soon enough to do the right ding thing.

You know, I think Charles rescinded that order.

273 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:55:53pm

re: #254 allegro

Only the queen. I'll refrain from jokes.

Actually, if a queen stops laying (gets too old, dies, whatever), the colony will raise another queen cell from an existing egg, or a worker will start laying. All bee eggs can be queens, workers, or drones(dudes). It is how the egg is nurtured and nourished in the first five days that determines what it becomes. (I spent a few years working for an apiary, and we sold about 3,000 queens a season to beekeepers around the world...Sent 'em by US mail).

I'll stop there, before I go off on my beekeeping tangent. Suffice it to say, aside from six bucks an hour, 14 hour days, and no health insurance, it was the best job I ever had.

274 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:56:10pm

re: #197 Obdicut

Consider for a moment that "I'm just as entitled to my opinion as anyone else" is the same argument that many global warming deniers use, when rejecting the oodles of science on global warming.

You are not as entitled to your opinion as a researcher on the topic, no.

I have looked for studies on this and at this time there doesn't seem to be much that's accessible to me and I don't know who I would trust. If what I am saying is the same as deniers then where are the facts to refute me. I can easily refute the deniers. I find this characterization very unfair.

And I have never said I was a researcher.

275 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:56:22pm

re: #266 prairiefire

You are so lucky.

there are good points & bad points to living here... ethnic food is definitely a good point...

276 martinsmithy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:56:33pm

re: #256 ryannon
Definitely not. Wright is no creationist, nor an (un)intelligent designer.

From Page 449-450

"Surely the believer is entitled to ask the same question about evolution: Where did the amazing algorithm of natural selection come from? Such a believer, by the way, would not here be making an argument for "intelligent design" the idea that natural selection isn't adequate to account for human evolution. On the contrary, the idea here is that natural selection is such a powerful mechanism that its origin demands a special explanation; that evolution by natural selection has patterns and properties every bit as extraordinary as an animal's maturation toward functional inegration."

277 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:56:47pm

re: #268 windsagio

oh to get at what I think you're after, growth hormones (and antibiotics) are dangerous things. I'm not sure if we have a reasonable longterm solution to the problem, but just playing ostrich about the potential risks is stupid.

278 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:57:23pm

re: #272 prairiefire

Nah she got the notice when she went to upding someone. I had though so too but I think the code work continues at LGF HQ all the time.

279 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:57:51pm

re: #269 ryannon

What's their honey taste like?

No honey, they live in 1/4 inch tube stacks instead of hives.

280 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:58:15pm

re: #251 windsagio

oh yeah sorry. I wasn't tying it to DDT, just it struck a chord, because the Bees are dying, and it could have a pretty brutal effect on our agriculture.

Well, some of it. Wheat and corn are wind pollinated. So is rice. Potatoes don't need pollination at all. Mostly, the world's staple foods are independent of bees for production.

Apples would be a problem, as would a number of other fruits.

Anyway, last I heard CCD was in remission. It wasn't a worldwide problem, and replacement of queens with "clean" stock from other continents seems to have gotten rid of it. I think it may be another year or two before they issue the all clear, but cases seem to have dropped dramatically.

281 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:58:41pm

re: #263 Dragon_Lady

I agree, the news media likes to put out the more sensational topics to make their ratings go up, so on the whole the amount of sex crimes are probably the same as during the 50's, 60's and 70's but now they're reported more. What I really dislike is waking up in the morning and hearing about them and other heinous crimes as soon as I put on the radio, it makes for a dismal and depressing start to my day.

And in the evening, there's Nancy Graaaaace.

282 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:59:18pm

re: #279 Decatur Deb

No honey, they live in 1/4 inch tube stacks instead of hives.

I forgot the / sign.

283 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:59:29pm

re: #265 Decatur Deb

I've started to put up nests for Mason Bees (which are actually wasps) and about 100x better pollinators than bees. Still like to keep the Apis, though.

I saw something recently on how many other kinds of bees there are that can be used for pollination, but I think there is an issue of temperature tolerance for many of them.

Up in the colder climes there are many wasps and others that do the same job, but in the main, warmer, agricultural areas nothing beats the bee, not to mention honey.

Enough of this bees stuff..

284 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:00:01pm

re: #279 Decatur Deb

Every garden should have one of those Mason Bee things. They're just great! (Upding to every mention of them I can find >>)

re: #280 SixDegrees

Maybe it was late, but I heard a story a few months back on NPR about how the migratory bees are having an (unrelated, as far as they know) dieoff. You know, the bees they truck from place to place to polinate fruit trees and such.

285 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:00:20pm

re: #280 SixDegrees

Well, some of it. Wheat and corn are wind pollinated. So is rice. Potatoes don't need pollination at all. Mostly, the world's staple foods are independent of bees for production.

Apples would be a problem, as would a number of other fruits.

Anyway, last I heard CCD was in remission. It wasn't a worldwide problem, and replacement of queens with "clean" stock from other continents seems to have gotten rid of it. I think it may be another year or two before they issue the all clear, but cases seem to have dropped dramatically.

Bean! Beans!

The Perfect Fruit!

286 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:00:36pm

re: #268 windsagio

I don't know please state your point concisely since you jumped into the middle of an ongoing conversation.

287 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:00:45pm

re: #266 prairiefire

You are so lucky.

did you know that egg rolls are actually supposed to be glazed with eggs?

288 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:00:52pm

re: #273 darthstar

I have a neighbor who did that for a while, then developed an allergy.

289 allegro  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:00:57pm

re: #273 darthstar

Actually, if a queen stops laying (gets too old, dies, whatever), the colony will raise another queen cell from an existing egg, or a worker will start laying. All bee eggs can be queens, workers, or drones(dudes).

Absolutely correct. My response was more in the SNL context. ;)

290 Cathypop  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:01:04pm

Evening Lizards,
Just uncovered all my outside plants and it looks like my Mexican Bird of Paradise tree bit the dust and I had just gotten it this summer. Beautiful flowers on that guy. CRAP!

291 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:01:19pm

re: #231 Thanos

Well since you seem to be lobbying for "food purity" I made the assumption.
Do you think vaccines cause Autism?

Go ASSume about someone else. You have no idea of my background or education. And "food purity" are your words, not mine.

292 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:01:40pm

re: #18 TampaKnight

My dad is 64 years old and when he was in grade school at a Catholic school, the head Priest headed up a boxing league after school.

You're right, if this happened today there would be legions of lawyers waiting outside.

It's sad what frivolous litigation has done to our society.

Heck, we used to have a shooting range in the basement of the Catholic HS I work at. Well, sort of. One of the priests dragged some old mattresses agains the wall and put targets on them. Worked fine.

This was long before my time.

293 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:01:48pm

Colony Collapse Disorder is mostly over, it's 2010, not 2006 - 2007 - please do try to stay current.

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:03:18pm

re: #32 Decatur Deb

Some school districts are severely cutting recess, then wonder why boys go squirrely.

Then, the teachers are scolded for not providing education for the 'kinetic' learners.

295 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:03:30pm

re: #291 Kewalo

Well I have to assume that you are somewhat anti-science since you come here making false assertions, and when challenged with actual facts you link nutball homeopathy sites and student articles as if they meant something.

296 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:03:40pm

re: #24 brookly red

you do NOT want to be kicked by a ballerina, nope not ever.

Especially when she's got her toe shoes on.

297 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:04:26pm

re: #291 Kewalo

Go ASSume about someone else. You have no idea of my background or education. And "food purity" are your words, not mine.

And, you don't even answer a simple question that was put to you by Thanos... "Do you think vaccines cause Autism?" O'm interested in your answer too!

298 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:05:14pm

re: #293 Thanos

Colony Collapse Disorder is mostly over, it's 2010, not 2006 - 2007 - please do try to stay current.

Really? I just saw a documentary on the discovery channel about it and they said that the cases Colony Collapse Disorder are increasing! Might I suggest more investigating would be a good idea on this topic?

299 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:06:00pm

re: #297 Walter L. Newton

And, you don't even answer a simple question that was put to you by Thanos... "Do you think vaccines cause Autism?" O'm interested in your answer too!


Now give us your lunch money you little punk.

300 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:06:21pm

re: #274 Kewalo

You're asserting that something is true without having any scientific basis for it. The biggest problem I have is your statement that you are as entitled as anyone else to your opinion. That is not true, and it's never true, except on subjective subjects. On any objective subject-- like this one-- that does not hold true.

That the studies are not accessible to you does not mean that they don't exist-- in fact, as has been noted already, the majority of hormone pollution doesn't matter, since we can't absorb it in the form it's polluted in. Hormones are fat-soluble, not water soluble-- and even then, only when they're atomized (or moleculized, I guess) Your statement that the hormones in the water are affecting us is therefore going to be categorically untrue, since it is not possible for a fat-soluble item suspended in water to be absorbed into the body.

There are many, many more chemicals-- ironically also from agriculture-- that causes changes in human hormone levels but are not themselves hormones.

To me, you are simply saying your own opinion with no actual undersatnding of how hormones operate in the environment.

301 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:06:31pm

re: #286 Thanos

hrmm.. bad vibes today.


My point is that if you can afford it, its probably a good idea to use food products made without hormones or excessive antibiotics added for your children. There's no proof I know of, but its generally considered a good idea... if you can afford the cost.

On the other hand, its largely children that are most vulnerable (altho the antibiotics are a whole different problem), there's very little credible concern even over the effects of growth hormones on adults.

Theres a huge problem with causation, in that things are exceptionally hard to prove. Its just a matter of playing the odds (also, I know you don't like the wikipedia article but there are definite effects in animal testing).

302 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:06:59pm

re: #298 Dragon_Lady

Really? I just saw a documentary on the discovery channel about it and they said that the cases Colony Collapse Disorder are increasing! Might I suggest more investigating would be a good idea on this topic?

As of 2009, the number of reported cases of CCD in the U.S. has dropped considerably; over the 2008/2009 winter, a total loss of 28.6% of managed honey bee colonies was recorded in the U.S., and only 15% of that subset (equal to only 4.3% of the national total) died with symptoms of CCD
[Link: maarec.cas.psu.edu...]

Now where did you see your claim?

303 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:07:35pm

re: #299 ryannon

Now give us your lunch money you little punk.

I'm not sure what you are implying? I just got home from work, looking over the thread, saw some of the dialog from Kewalo, and I'm interested in his/her answer.

That OK with you?

304 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:07:57pm

re: #277 windsagio

oh to get at what I think you're after, growth hormones (and antibiotics) are dangerous things. I'm not sure if we have a reasonable longterm solution to the problem, but just playing ostrich about the potential risks is stupid.

I agree and I think when they finally get down to really researching it they will find it has been very dangerous.

305 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:08:20pm

A number of people are like super angry today. It must be the hormones in our food!

306 Cathypop  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:08:40pm

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

I'm not sure what you are implying? I just got home from work, looking over the thread, saw some of the dialog from Kewalo, and I'm interested in his/her answer.

That OK with you?


///Yes Sir!///

307 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:09:11pm

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

I'm not sure what you are implying? I just got home from work, looking over the thread, saw some of the dialog from Kewalo, and I'm interested in his/her answer.

That OK with you?

Do you really give a shit?

308 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:09:25pm

re: #305 windsagio

A number of people are like super angry today. It must be the hormones in our food!

I'm not angry yet. Got any ideas?

309 Cathypop  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:09:44pm

re: #305 windsagio

A number of people are like super angry today. It must be the hormones in our food!

Nope. It's just a crappy Monday. It will go away after midnight. Trust me!

310 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:09:49pm

re: #305 windsagio

A number of people are like super angry today. It must be the hormones in our food!

me belly full but me hungry still, a hungry man is an angry man...

Bob Marley.

311 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:10:26pm

re: #301 windsagio

There's no proof I know of

But there's tons of proof in extended life expectancy studies, the end of famines, decrease in disease, etc. etc. etc. that modern farming methods are better than "organic"

On top of that if we try to make all food worldwide "organic and local" real people do die.

312 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:11:12pm

re: #143 William of Orange

Some terribly sad niews from the Netherlands. Just an hour ago it was announced that the last surviving member of the Group that helped the Frank family in WWII , Miep Gies, has died at the grand old age of 100.

Report from the BBC.


She's done so much for the world. Anne wrote it, Miep was it's spiritual mother.

Rest in peace. :(

That's a great age, altogether. An amazing woman.

313 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:11:34pm

re: #302 Thanos

As of 2009, the number of reported cases of CCD in the U.S. has dropped considerably; over the 2008/2009 winter, a total loss of 28.6% of managed honey bee colonies was recorded in the U.S., and only 15% of that subset (equal to only 4.3% of the national total) died with symptoms of CCD
[Link: maarec.cas.psu.edu...]

Now where did you see your claim?

The show aired just a few days ago, on one of the discovery channels. It might just have been a rerun of another doom and gloom report. All I know is what they reported on that show.

314 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:11:34pm

re: #307 ryannon

Do you really give a shit?

Yes I do. I had a autistic niece-in-law and her parents were Jehovah's Witnesses. They very much believed that vaccinations were the cause of this condition. This was all the way back in the 70's. Even then, I was trying to point out certain studies that disproved that point.

Now, what the fuck is your problem Ranger?

315 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:11:38pm

re: #305 windsagio

I'm not angry, but I do always challenge consensus on "natural foods" "homeopathy" etc. since to me it's the modern form of snake oil.

316 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:12:00pm

re: #311 Thanos

But there's tons of proof in extended life expectancy studies, the end of famines, decrease in disease, etc. etc. etc. that modern farming methods are better than "organic"

On top of that if we try to make all food worldwide "organic and local" real people do die.

I am waiting for the organic big mac...

317 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:12:43pm

re: #308 Walter L. Newton

Any new "Tales from the Compactor?"

318 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:13:02pm

re: #265 Decatur Deb

If you haven't seen this, you might find it interesting.

[Link: www.thedailygreen.com...]

319 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:13:07pm

re: #313 Dragon_Lady

The show aired just a few days ago, on one of the discovery channels. It might just have been a rerun of another doom and gloom report. All I know is what they reported on that show.

Well, they were wrong, or they were an old rerun -- not uncommon on Discovery. The increase occurred 2006-2007 and it's trended down since.

320 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:13:18pm

re: #239 SixDegrees

I don't think DDT was ever banned in Africa.

Well, kinda

Linky

It has also been argued that donor governments and agencies have refused to fund DDT spraying, or made aid contingent upon not using DDT. According a report in the British Medical Journal, use of DDT in Mozambique "was stopped several decades ago, because 80% of the country's health budget came from donor funds, and donors refused to allow the use of DDT."[111] Roger Bate asserts that "many countries have been coming under pressure from international health and environment agencies to give up DDT or face losing aid grants: Belize and Bolivia are on record admitting they gave in to pressure on this issue from [USAID]."[112]

321 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:13:55pm

re: #314 Walter L. Newton

Yes I do. I had a autistic niece-in-law and her parents were Jehovah's Witnesses. They very much believed that vaccinations were the cause of this condition. This was all the way back in the 70's. Even then, I was trying to point out certain studies that disproved that point.

Now, what the fuck is your problem Ranger?

I don't have any.

But you seem to accord an inordinate amount of importance to what I think.

Since you do, I'd like to reiterate that I firmly believe that what you identified as a Gaza Seagull was actually a Gaza cat.

Ok, Ranger?

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:13:55pm

re: #160 Soap_Man

Maybe it explains why my 14-year-old nephew is six inches taller than I am.

(Half kidding)

Only half. It's hilarious to see families where the older generation was raised on a low-protein, low-fat (often too-low for all of those) diet, and the youngsters were brought up on hamburgers. In Ireland, when I was a student, it wasn't uncommon to see families where Grandpa was five-foot-two, and grandson was a foot taller.

323 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:14:32pm

re: #320 rwdflynavy

That's how you ban something without "banning" it. You just threaten to withhold aid if they don't fall in line.

324 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:14:43pm

re: #319 Thanos

Well, they were wrong, or they were an old rerun -- not uncommon on Discovery. The increase occurred 2006-2007 and it's trended down since.

Well that's a relief! I'm really glad to hear it!

325 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:15:14pm

re: #315 Thanos

I'm not angry, but I do always challenge consensus on "natural foods" "homeopathy" etc. since to me it's the modern form of snake oil.

personally I just can't bring myself to eat "cheese food" whatever the f' that is...

326 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:15:19pm

re: #320 rwdflynavy

There are also some studies going on pertaining to confined, contained use of it in attics where birds can't get to it etc.

327 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:16:17pm

re: #317 Stanley Sea

Any new "Tales from the Compactor?"

I discovered today that the compactor can fold a double upright freezer in half. Neat.

328 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:16:31pm

re: #311 Thanos

Well certainly having enough food is healthier! As for the other bit, I challenge you to find a study that isolates out, say... the use of antibiotics in cattle as a singular cause of anything.

What you're saying is that 'in general people are healthier, so that must directly correlate to our farming practices.' That simply doesn't follow.


re: #315 Thanos

See that annoys me. I'm not saying ANYTHING about 'Natural Foods' and CERTAINLY not "Homeopathy". Maybe you got that from Kewalo, so I'm gonna guess you're not just going all strawmanney on me.. I'm talking about a few specific techniques that we should be concerned about.

329 allegro  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:16:37pm

re: #326 Thanos

There are also some studies going on pertaining to confined, contained use of it in attics where birds can't get to it etc.

Unless something has happened within the past 3 or 4 years, DDT has always been available for use in the US under specific, controlled circumstances by permit.

330 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:16:53pm

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

I discovered today that the compactor can fold a double upright freezer in half. Neat.

you did check inside first right?

331 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:17:22pm

re: #325 brookly red

personally I just can't bring myself to eat "cheese food" whatever the f' that is...

Velveeta... yummmmm.

/just kidding - I like Tillamook sharp cheddar mostly with an occasional foray into Amish cheeses from Missouri.

332 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:18:25pm
333 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:19:11pm

re: #331 Thanos

Velveeta... yummm.

/just kidding - I like Tillamook sharp cheddar mostly with an occasional foray into Amish cheeses from Missouri.

Niccce...

334 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:19:31pm

re: #323 rwdflynavy

That's how you ban something without "banning" it. You just threaten to withhold aid if they don't fall in line.

Sounds better than bombing to me.

Anyway, off to watch some TV while I'm still in a good mood.

335 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:19:35pm

re: #295 Thanos

Well I have to assume that you are somewhat anti-science since you come here making false assertions, and when challenged with actual facts you link nutball homeopathy sites and student articles as if they meant something.

No, you didn't have to assume anything...you choose to assume and make a full frontal attack for no good reason I can see and I sure haven't seen one link that would lead me to believe that you have any idea about the subject. If I am sooooo far off base there must be plenty of science to disprove it. Please do me a favor and point me in the direction of it.

Your assumptions are your problem, not mine.

336 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:19:50pm

re: #328 windsagio

Well see if you jump into middle of a conversation, sometimes you get an annoying reply.

337 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:19:53pm

re: #330 brookly red

you did check inside first right?

That's why I threw it out. I opened it up and was almost knocked over by the smell of all the mold inside. This was a donation to the thrift store. Bullshit, they were trying to get rid of it instead of disposing of it legally.

338 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:20:22pm

re: #334 Naso Tang

Sounds better than bombing to me.

Anyway, off to watch some TV while I'm still in a good mood.

Concur. Enjoy TV!

339 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:20:38pm

Goddam Commie Bees

340 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:20:50pm

re: #335 Kewalo

The good reason is that you are making wild assed unfounded claims based on assumptions that don't match reality.

341 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:21:31pm

re: #337 Walter L. Newton

That's why I threw it out. I opened it up and was almost knocked over by the smell of all the mold inside. This was a donation to the thrift store. Bullshit, they were trying to get rid of it instead of disposing of it legally.

when you can hear the mold breath it's time to clean the fridge...

342 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:21:45pm

re: #336 Thanos

So, you agree with my points then?

Can you address them in a meaningful manner?


Attacking me for joining a conversation late (I mean Good God, its a Blog!) is... well it speaks of cognitive surrender. And its rude.

343 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:22:23pm

re: #337 Walter L. Newton

Those people are the worst. Get rid of your really disgusting junk and pretend you can feel good about it!

344 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:22:24pm
345 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:22:59pm

re: #342 windsagio

Which point since you seem somewhat passive agressive - be concise and state it clearly?

346 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:23:27pm

re: #343 windsagio

Those people are the worst. Get rid of your really disgusting junk and pretend you can feel good about it!

bet they take the tax deduction too...

347 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:23:51pm

I'm back.

What's up?

348 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:24:04pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

Only half. It's hilarious to see families where the older generation was raised on a low-protein, low-fat (often too-low for all of those) diet, and the youngsters were brought up on hamburgers. In Ireland, when I was a student, it wasn't uncommon to see families where Grandpa was five-foot-two, and grandson was a foot taller.

Well, that is supposed to say cousin's kid and not nephew (don't know why I wrote that,) but that doesn't matter. What does matter is that everyone is his generation is bigger-not just taller, but with a bigger frame-than everyone in my generation. The same is true with my brother and my dad and uncles. I'm not going to pretend I know why that is, but it is a little startling to see.

349 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:24:29pm

re: #347 ggt

I'm back.

What's up?

tales from the compactor... (que the scary music)

350 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:24:40pm

re: #325 brookly red

personally I just can't bring myself to eat "cheese food" whatever the f' that is...

I raise my right hand and swear never to eat another Lunchable as long as I live. Talk about cheese food. I was running around in a hurry today and thought it would be fast and filling. Oh the horror!

351 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:24:48pm

re: #347 ggt

I'm back.

What's up?


Monday LGF love fest.

352 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:25:26pm

re: #350 Silvergirl

I raise my right hand and swear never to eat another Lunchable as long as I live. Talk about cheese food. I was running around in a hurry today and thought it would be fast and filling. Oh the horror!

a little admodium should help...

353 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:25:34pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

Only half. It's hilarious to see families where the older generation was raised on a low-protein, low-fat (often too-low for all of those) diet, and the youngsters were brought up on hamburgers. In Ireland, when I was a student, it wasn't uncommon to see families where Grandpa was five-foot-two, and grandson was a foot taller.

It's important to note that I was raised on a high-protien, high-fat diet.

354 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:26:00pm

re: #335 Kewalo

Do you think vaccines cause autism? It's a simple question with a yes or no answer.

355 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:26:02pm

re: #351 ryannon

Monday LGF love fest.

oh.

;)

356 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:26:03pm

re: #343 windsagio

Those people are the worst. Get rid of your really disgusting junk and pretend you can feel good about it!

Exactly. We ask for gently used items, not trash, but you would be surprised how many pieces of totally unusable trash we get, and I mean trash. I'm going into my third week there and I could tell you some horror stories already.

357 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:26:52pm

re: #350 Silvergirl

I raise my right hand and swear never to eat another Lunchable as long as I live. Talk about cheese food. I was running around in a hurry today and thought it would be fast and filling. Oh the horror!

Cheese food in, chesse food out.

358 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:26:54pm

re: #345 Thanos

OK to state it for a third freakin' time.

"Although there is no definitive science either way, its generally considered that it'd be smarter/safer to avoid food (mainly meat and milk) heavily treated with antibiotics and growth hormones with growing children... If you can afford the premium cost."

I keep making the same case and you nibble about the edges and make personal attacks. Its maddening. Also lol. "Passive-aggressive"? REALLY?

359 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:27:44pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

one of my clients worked at the Goodwill for years. I had to go into the back pretty often to get him, and I saw some awful 'donations' just LEFT on the loading dock. (Yes I know you're not supposed to do that, they do anyways).

360 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:27:44pm

re: #354 Thanos

Do you think vaccines cause autism? It's a simple question with a yes or no answer.

And were you ever a member of the Communist Party?

361 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:27:57pm

re: #343 windsagio

Those people are the worst. Get rid of your really disgusting junk and pretend you can feel good about it!

Those types don't pretend to "feel" good about it. They don't "feel" one way or the other about it. Their just dumping their garbage on someone else so they don't have to pay a disposal fee.

We get a-holes like that dumping paint, pool bleach containers, and couches in our alley-way dumpsters.

362 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:28:25pm

re: #358 windsagio

I disagree, you are statistically more likely to die of e-coli than anything the antibiotics might do.

363 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:28:27pm

re: #300 Obdicut

If you read my original post I did not just point at hormones, but at all the pollution in our water and food.

There are many theories about what is causing earlier puberty. Pre-pubertal obesity has been shown to lower the age of menarche. Also linked to early menstruation are chemicals such as phthalate esters, which are added to vinyl to make it flexible, and are found in toys, vinyl floor and wall coverings, food packaging, pesticides, detergents, pharmaceuticals, and personal care products such as nail polish, sunscreen, shampoo and lotions. Hormones in meat and milk, and other “environmental estrogens” have been implicated.
[Link: bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com...]

364 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:28:30pm

re: #349 brookly red

tales from the compactor... (que the scary music)

Scary... ok... this past Friday night I was on the closing shift. Part of my duties is to walk the store after we lock the front door to make sure we have no customers lingering or lurking in the store. I pass the used toy department, and some friggin toy is talking away, so i turn it off... I'm walking away and suddenly it say "turn me back on Walter, turn me back on..."

I clocked out.

365 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:29:04pm

Testing new avatar?

366 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:29:46pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

Exactly. We ask for gently used items, not trash, but you would be surprised how many pieces of totally unusable trash we get, and I mean trash. I'm going into my third week there and I could tell you some horror stories already.

here is the old 2 ladies talking in heaven joke...

1st woman: Hi! Wanda.

2nd woman: Hi! Sylvia. How'd you die?

1st woman: I froze to death.

2nd woman: How horrible!

1st woman: It wasn't so bad. After I quit shaking from the cold, I began to get warm & sleepy, and finally died a peaceful death. What about you?

2nd woman: I died of a massive heart attack. I suspected that my husband was cheating, so I came home early to catch him in the act. But instead, I found him all by himself in the den watching TV.

1st woman: So, what happened?

2nd woman: I was so sure there was another woman there somewhere that I started running all over the house looking. I ran up into the attic and searched, and ran down into the basement. Then I went through every closet and checked under all the beds.. I kept this up until I had looked everywhere, and finally I became so exhausted that I just keeled over with a heart attack and died.

1st woman: Too bad you didn't look in the freezer---we'd both still be alive.

367 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:29:50pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

Exactly. We ask for gently used items, not trash, but you would be surprised how many pieces of totally unusable trash we get, and I mean trash. I'm going into my third week there and I could tell you some horror stories already.

I actually look forward to these stories. Keep 'em coming! Sooner or later we'll get to a Stephen Kingish tale.

368 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:30:09pm

re: #365 Dragon_Lady

Testing new avatar?

Dragon with wine bottle? Check.

369 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:30:17pm

re: #362 Thanos

Well we're not talking about 'dieing'. We're talking about minimizing potential risk factors for bad health.

370 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:30:41pm

re: #359 windsagio

one of my clients worked at the Goodwill for years. I had to go into the back pretty often to get him, and I saw some awful 'donations' just LEFT on the loading dock. (Yes I know you're not supposed to do that, they do anyways).

I not work for ARC. After two years, I quit the live theatre gig, the pay was just to low, even for part time work. I'm working 40 hours a week now, and hauling ass, and at 57, it's not as easy as it would be if I was 20 years younger, but at least it's a full time job, benefits and it's for a good cause, besides paying the bills.

371 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:31:41pm

re: #367 Stanley Sea

I actually look forward to these stories. Keep 'em coming! Sooner or later we'll get to a Stephen Kingish tale.

:) See...

re: #364 Walter L. Newton

372 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:32:07pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton

yeah I remember. Its a brave, scary choice you made >> Do you use disabled people at the store you work at? (probably not, but I always have professional interest in how they do... from people who have no reason to lie to me about it)

373 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:32:15pm

re: #364 Walter L. Newton

Scary... ok... this past Friday night I was on the closing shift. Part of my duties is to walk the store after we lock the front door to make sure we have no customers lingering or lurking in the store. I pass the used toy department, and some friggin toy is talking away, so i turn it off... I'm walking away and suddenly it say "turn me back on Walter, turn me back on..."

I clocked out.

That was close enough!!

374 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:32:33pm

re: #368 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks. Now that makes her official.
BBL off to catch the subway and get home! My Sierra Nevada IPA awaits.

375 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:32:43pm

re: #357 ryannon

Cheese food in, chesse food out.

As in fatty food? It's horrible to have to explain a joke, but I think I need a boost here. Or a nudge. I don't want to pretend to laugh.

376 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:33:17pm

re: #374 Rightwingconspirator

377 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:33:22pm

re: #363 Kewalo

What is the obsession with puberty?

As pointed out upthread the norms for age of puberty were established in the 60's by a flawed study of a single all-white population at an orphanage rather than large mixed race populations.
They were wrong.

We now have more data, and that's why the age was dropped. You don't have to assume that something dramatic has changed other than our ability to measure and report.

378 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:33:36pm

Ok, what is everyone reading (besides this blog)?

379 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:33:37pm

Gonna log off so I can go pick up Rightwingconspiritor at the train. Type at you all later!

380 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:33:45pm

re: #318 Kewalo

If you haven't seen this, you might find it interesting.

[Link: www.thedailygreen.com...]

Thanks. I can't keep real bees, my wife has to carry a kit. (Might take it up if she keeps hanging the toilet paper backwards.)

381 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:33:56pm

re: #376 wozzablog

GOOD POST!!!!

382 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:33:56pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton

I not work for ARC. After two years, I quit the live theatre gig, the pay was just to low, even for part time work. I'm working 40 hours a week now, and hauling ass, and at 57, it's not as easy as it would be if I was 20 years younger, but at least it's a full time job, benefits and it's for a good cause, besides paying the bills.

I NOT WORK FOR ARC? = I work for ARC. Tired, long day, lots of stuff came in, 10 pallets and 12 cages of stuff from the truck routes, and Mondays, I'm the only one in the production area, furniture guy takes care of all the back end stuff on Mondays, cause production workers are off Sun/Mon, and the floor is staffed with a few assistant managers only.

383 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:34:00pm

re: #376 wozzablog

What the heck happend there?


Anyhews.

All i was going to say was.........

WHOOP for Sierra Nevada.

384 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:34:23pm

re: #364 Walter L. Newton

I don't think that was intended to scare you. I think it might have been a come on.

385 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:34:26pm

re: #363 Kewalo

In your first post you asked:

Our water if full of medications, hormones and God knows what else. How could it not effect us?

Hormones in our water could not affect us because hormones are not fat soluble.

The real pollutants that greatly affect our hormone levels are those oldy-but-goodies, PCBs and HCBs.

[Link: www.nature.com...]

You repeatedly are saying things like your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, and that you're sure when the research is done you'll be proved right. That is a non-scientific-- in fact, an anti-scientific-- position, and it's dangerous to take.

386 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:34:35pm

re: #381 windsagio

It may end up being my most popular..............

387 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:34:45pm

re: #375 Silvergirl

As in fatty food? It's horrible to have to explain a joke, but I think I need a boost here. Or a nudge. I don't want to pretend to laugh.

It's a paleo computing/programming/coding/information-searching joke.

"Shit in, shit out."

388 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:35:14pm

re: #384 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't think that was intended to scare you. I think it might have been a come on.

or a practical joke from a co-worker --was it an RC toy?

389 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:35:42pm

re: #387 ryannon

It's a paleo computing/programming/coding/information-searching joke.

"Shit in, shit out."

Thanks. I was thrown by chesse.

390 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:35:43pm

re: #378 ggt

I'm being geeky right now. I'm reading a 1977 complete encyclopedia of all the Batman comics up to 1969. (not the comics themselves, just a series of entries on the characters and places)

391 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:35:45pm

re: #374 Rightwingconspirator

Thanks. Now that makes her official.
BBL off to catch the subway and get home! My Sierra Nevada IPA awaits.

re: #379 Dragon_Lady

Gonna log off so I can go pick up Rightwingconspiritor at the train. Type at you all later!


Funny how we get to see both sides of that. And Sierra Nevada IPA is a damn fine beer.

392 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:35:53pm

re: #369 windsagio

Who is this "we" do you have a mouse in your pocket?

Again, you are statistically more likely to die from that antibiotic free beef than I am from protected beef. You are also more likely to get mad cow disease.

I like my sanity, and I like my life.

393 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:36:11pm

re: #364 Walter L. Newton

Scary... ok... this past Friday night I was on the closing shift. Part of my duties is to walk the store after we lock the front door to make sure we have no customers lingering or lurking in the store. I pass the used toy department, and some friggin toy is talking away, so i turn it off... I'm walking away and suddenly it say "turn me back on Walter, turn me back on..."

I clocked out.

If a toy says that, Turn It On Again:

394 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:36:40pm

re: #390 windsagio

I'm being geeky right now. I'm reading a 1977 complete encyclopedia of all the Batman comics up to 1969. (not the comics themselves, just a series of entries on the characters and places)

I do that with the Star Trek encyclopeia.

;)

395 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:37:10pm

re: #378 ggt

Ok, what is everyone reading (besides this blog)?

A Plague of Doves.

396 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:37:35pm

re: #388 ggt

Oh ggt, I don't think Walter was telling a factual tale.

397 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:37:38pm

re: #391 Soap_Man

Funny how we get to see both sides of that. And Sierra Nevada IPA is a damn fine beer.

ahahahahahahahaha!

LMAO

398 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:37:41pm

re: #372 windsagio

yeah I remember. Its a brave, scary choice you made >> Do you use disabled people at the store you work at? (probably not, but I always have professional interest in how they do... from people who have no reason to lie to me about it)

Yes, we have a number of different ways that is handled. We have 4 part time disabled workers and we have training programs come in with groups once or twice a week with a half or dozen or so disabled people who are getting occupational training. And sometimes, like today, we had a single sighted person come in with a sight impaired training person and worked for 2-3 hours with him.

We have about 18 full time production, cashier and furniture people (furniture is a separate department from production, and the three of us in furniture cover the full week, plus some misc. duties).

Busy place.

399 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:38:01pm

re: #396 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh ggt, I don't think Walter was telling a factual tale.

just trying to contribute

:)

400 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:38:41pm

re: #392 Thanos

You keep jumping back to 'dying', and I keep saying thats not what I'm talking about. Living your life isn't a binary function.

I shouldn't say this, but I just can't shake the feeling. The anger and ferocity with which you argue about this makes me think back when I got into an argument with a PD about the disgrace that radio programming has become. You read like you have a dog in the hunt here.

401 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:38:46pm

re: #392 Thanos

Mad Cow disease I don't think is affected by presence or absence of antibiotics, since it's a prion disease. Maybe a few antibiotics could affect it, but I don't think so.

It's mainly a feed problem-- cannibal cows.

402 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:38:57pm

re: #389 Silvergirl

Thanks. I was thrown by chesse.

What was the experience like?

403 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:39:27pm

re: #396 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh ggt, I don't think Walter was telling a factual tale.

It was factual up to the point of the toy coming back on by itself. It's my warped sense of humor.

404 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:39:38pm

re: #400 windsagio

I agree with pretty much everything Thanos has said: do you think I have a dog in this race too?

405 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:39:50pm

re: #395 Silvergirl

A Plague of Doves.

Is it gruesome? I like mystery types but not if they are too horrible.

406 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:39:57pm

re: #401 Obdicut

It was cannibal cows.

Antibiotics had zero or little effect.

407 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:40:11pm

re: #399 ggt

Oy. My bad. Never mind.

408 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:40:13pm

re: #354 Thanos

Do you think vaccines cause autism? It's a simple question with a yes or no answer.

Of course I don't. But I do think they are going to find a causal factor that has something to do with what their mothers either put into their bodies or are lacking something.

Just a few years ago it wasn't known that lack of folic acid caused neural tube defects. And if we had been talking 10 yrs ago and I had said I thought it might you would probably have jumped all over me. Now some are saying and there's no proof yet that lack of folic acid might also cause cleft palates. So, it seems to me that if a small amount of folic acid can stop these terrible birth defects then I think it's not unreasonable to think that autism might also be caused by a substance or a lack of one. Brains are very delicate.

So will you now please go be rude to someone else.

409 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:40:34pm

re: #400 windsagio

What anger ? What ferocity? Do you consider yourself a psychic to be able to measure these things over teh innernetz?

I know facts can be hurtful but they are just that.

410 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:40:58pm

re: #398 Walter L. Newton

Lord, it sounds like it!

What level of productivity do you expect from your disabled workers? (I know it varies widely)

Either way your program sounds wonderful. As my experience shows, they usually LOVE working and feeling useful. Its intensely therapeutic.

411 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:41:23pm

re: #287 brookly red

did you know that egg rolls are actually supposed to be glazed with eggs?

No, but I could see how that would brown them if they were not fried.

412 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:42:41pm

re: #408 Kewalo

Since you did not directly answer the question, let me try the Joe McCarthy approach:

Are you now, or have you ever been, an anti-vaxer?

413 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:43:01pm

re: #290 Cathypop

Very sorry to hear that. All of you southern lizards are in for a world of suck with your plants. Is that variation much different from the Hawaiian variety?

414 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:43:08pm

re: #405 ggt

Is it gruesome? I like mystery types but not if they are too horrible.

Well, with murder and lynching it's gruesome, but not overly graphic. It's one where I'm really needing to pay attention to get the connections of all the characters, but so far, rewarding. Actually it's The Plague of Doves. I wrote 'A' before.

415 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:45:41pm

re: #400 windsagio

You keep jumping back to 'dying', and I keep saying thats not what I'm talking about. Living your life isn't a binary function.

I shouldn't say this, but I just can't shake the feeling. The anger and ferocity with which you argue about this makes me think back when I got into an argument with a PD about the disgrace that radio programming has become. You read like you have a dog in the hunt here.

Charles was posting alot about Autism and Vaccines a while back and posters went thru several threads of refuting bad science and misinformation. LGF has also been a community that links to resources. If someone puts forth an idea and is challenged, it's a good idea to post a link or explain why you are not. A challenge usually isn't personal --and shouldn't be taken as such.

416 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:45:42pm

re: #402 ryannon

What was the experience like?

A little disorienting, not unlike Alice's fall down the rabbit hole.

417 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:46:22pm

re: #403 Walter L. Newton

It was factual up to the point of the toy coming back on by itself. It's my warped sense of humor.

Was it's name: Chuckie?

418 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:46:58pm

re: #408 Kewalo

Thanks for the answer, but your answer doesn't match with your original thesis. You proposed that there are "things out there harming us" in the environment, as a broad sweeping statement it's obviously true - there are few substances including water, that cannot be classed as toxins in extreme doses, and the moment we are born we start dieing as our cells wage a war of survival with our environment.

But you are proposing now something that's good for us, taken in right dose I assume, rather than pointing at something specific in the environment that's harmful.

You notice I'm not arguing with Obdicut when he states that PCB"s are bad right?

My beef with you is that you are bordering on paranoia about the things that have in most cases advanced our quality and length of life without being specific.
You leap from insinuations about sex crimes to early puberty based on false data, and you make me wonder.

419 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:47:25pm

re: #410 windsagio

Lord, it sounds like it!

What level of productivity do you expect from your disabled workers? (I know it varies widely)

Either way your program sounds wonderful. As my experience shows, they usually LOVE working and feeling useful. Its intensely therapeutic.

None of the disabled workers do production work. Production work in a thrift store is sorting and pricing items. The disabled workers rack items, do ragouts (removing alder items that did not sell from the active stock), one of the disabled workers helps around the production area, accepting donations or helping furniture department with the heavy lifting.

We have one autistic girl who is totally incommunicative, but she sorts clothes hangers and works along with her mom who is a woman's clothes pricer.

And all of our profits go directly back into programs in the community, not sent to some corporate office in another state. All ARC chapters receive local money from their local thrift operations and the local chapter distributes the funds in the community.

There are ARC chapters in most states, not all states have a thrift store operation (or chain of thrift stores). Some local chapters raise money using other means.

The whole idea is not to lock the fund raising to one venture. Different areas, different chapters find the most lucrative sorce of funds and targets that.

420 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:47:28pm

My time's up. I swore I'd put away the dregs of the Christmas decorations that have been covering a tabletop for the past three days, so I'm off to do that. Getting them out is so much more fun.

421 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:47:46pm

re: #404 Obdicut

In short, you're coming off as rational, and not angry. Also, you're not engaging in personal attacks or diversionary tactics. In a word, you're not defensive on the subject.

I'll be the first to agree that Kewalo is going too far with some of his statements (Trace prozac in our water probably has very little effect on anything). And I notice that you haven't really argued with any of my posts >> Do you actively disagree with what I'm saying? Its an interesting subject to discuss :)

re: #409 Thanos

You're not giving me any facts! You're just making meta-attacks on me, or misrepresenting my argument. In general, as an individual, why not play it safe?

We make risk-analysis part of our everyday lives. "Is this (potential) improvement worth this cost?" The body is a messy subject, and we're really not clear all the effects of everything. Reductio ad Absurdum (in this case "Will it kill me outright?") is foolish and shortsighted.

422 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:47:51pm

re: #407 Slumbering Behemoth

Oy. My bad. Never mind.

No, not at all. You should know by now that sometimes I need a little help, and it is always appreciated.

My response was a badly worded attempt at humor.

:)

423 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:48:49pm

re: #378 ggt

Ok, what is everyone reading (besides this blog)?

Sixguns by Elmer Keith. Goes good with my new Taurus 650 Stainless ... :)

William

424 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:50:14pm

re: #380 Decatur Deb

I happened on the Bee Keeper awhile back and got so fascinated that I actually kept the link. LOL There's really a lot of interesting stuff at the site.

425 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:51:04pm

re: #365 Dragon_Lady

Looks great. A wine lover?

426 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:51:25pm

re: #421 windsagio

Yadda yadda. etc.

You can't refute the fact that antibiotics save more lives and enhance the quality of more lives than they harm so now you are changing the subject to the manner of argumentation. I like science, I like facts, do you have something other than popular opinion to base your judgement on?

427 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:51:56pm

re: #415 ggt

Lol, I HATE the Vaccine idea. Just want to make it absolutely clear. I have an older brother whose Autistic, and I work in health care. Those nutjobs (RFK Jr. Can metaphorically die!) really make me crazy.

As to the other thing... Unfortunately, we're talking about a very complex area. Its almost impossible to isolate these kind of things for independent study. On the other hand, ask people who have been through Endicrinology classes recently, and ask what they think about the growth hormone subject.

Unfortunately the subject isn't something that can be proven either way at this point.

428 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:52:40pm

re: #423 wlewisiii

Sixguns by Elmer Keith. Goes good with my new Taurus 650 Stainless ... :)

William

OMG! Have fun, and get to the range.

429 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:52:43pm

re: #383 wozzablog

They have that in England?

430 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:53:03pm

re: #416 Silvergirl

A little disorienting, not unlike Alice's fall down the rabbit hole.

I take it that it was Swiss Cheese, then.

You could always write a book....

431 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:53:21pm

re: #377 Thanos

No obsession with puberty except as a sign that something is not right. If we owe our children anything it is healthy food and water. And if there is so much data proving me so wrong where the hell is it?

432 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:55:00pm

re: #377 Thanos

What is the obsession with puberty?

As pointed out upthread the norms for age of puberty were established in the 60's by a flawed study of a single all-white population at an orphanage rather than large mixed race populations.
They were wrong.

We now have more data, and that's why the age was dropped. You don't have to assume that something dramatic has changed other than our ability to measure and report.

Perhaps, like Garth, he has yet to go through it.

[snicker]

433 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:55:30pm

re: #431 Kewalo

No obsession with puberty except as a sign that something is not right. If we owe our children anything it is healthy food and water. And if there is so much data proving me so wrong where the hell is it?

Healthy compared to what? What parameters do you prefer. We have one of the safest food supplies in the world. We can only keep trying and learn as we go. There are always risks.

434 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:56:19pm

re: #426 Thanos

Until resistence sets in.

Over reliance on antibiotics prescribed for headcolds and the like - combined with antibiotics in the food supply are making human bodies more resistent to them than we need to be.


just asking a question here - if you were faced with a choice of two meats (the same price) one beiing organic and one being antibiotically farmed and intensively reared............. which would you choose?

435 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:56:24pm

re: #431 Kewalo

You made the wild assed assertions, you own the linkage. This is a hard room, we fact check your ass, if you make an assertion in here as you did, then you provide the proof. I willing to be convinced if you can show me something that backs up your claims that's valid. If you make extraordinary claims, then you must also supply extraordinary proof. So far you have not.

436 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:57:12pm

re: #431 Kewalo

No obsession with puberty except as a sign that something is not right. If we owe our children anything it is healthy food and water. And if there is so much data proving me so wrong where the hell is it?

Here, go read, I suspect you could have found this yourself in about 1/2 second, but if you have to have you hand held... come back in a few days...

[Link: www.cdc.gov...]

437 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:57:23pm

sorry I haven't been around much today ... I've been working on my caucasion dialect ...

438 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:57:29pm

re: #434 wozzablog

I would almost always go for the latter, but my first check would be for freshness. That's done with the nose.

439 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:57:56pm

re: #426 Thanos

Antibiotics in general? I presume you mean 'antibiotics in livestock'. In that case, I'd throw back and see a study. There are alot of factors that go into that (ie resistance)... and there's also the use of antibiotics as growth promoters. Higher productivity is certainly good, but is it saving lives directly?


You're taking 2 exceptionally complex issues and simplifying them terribly.

440 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:58:06pm

re: #385 Obdicut

No, I have not said I'd be proven right. I would be ecstatic to be proven wrong. What I have said is there is no studies done that prove me wrong right now.

And while I thank you for the link, it really doesn't say much does it?

Would you feel better if I said it was my hypothesis rather then my opinion? :)

441 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:58:27pm

re: #389 Silvergirl

Thanks. I was thrown by chesse.

This is thrown by cheese:

442 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:58:44pm

re: #434 wozzablog


just asking a question here - if you were faced with a choice of two meats (the same price) one beiing organic and one being antibiotically farmed and intensively reared... which would you choose?

just asking a question here- wtf is organic meat? (back off sattv)

443 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:59:22pm

re: #364 Walter L. Newton

Scary... ok... this past Friday night I was on the closing shift. Part of my duties is to walk the store after we lock the front door to make sure we have no customers lingering or lurking in the store. I pass the used toy department, and some friggin toy is talking away, so i turn it off... I'm walking away and suddenly it say "turn me back on Walter, turn me back on..."

I clocked out.

Spooky.

444 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:59:31pm

re: #428 ggt

OMG! Have fun, and get to the range.

Put 100 158 grain LRN's down range today. Wish I'd had more with me... ;) Still getting used to it but it's really quite nice & the Hogue monogrip really shines too.

William

445 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:59:38pm

re: #440 Kewalo

heh I'm starting to think that we're hitting an insoluble problem (and note I don't agree with you totally :p)

People are reacting to a stereotype of the 'all organic foods homeopath hippie' and not any specific arguments in this thread >

446 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:59:43pm

re: #437 _RememberTonyC

sorry I haven't been around much today ... I've been working on my caucasion dialect ...

word.

447 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:59:46pm

re: #437 _RememberTonyC

sorry I haven't been around much today ... I've been working on my caucasion dialect ...

It's hard to make a great entrance. Well done sir.

448 Digital Display  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:00:18pm

re: #437 _RememberTonyC

sorry I haven't been around much today ... I've been working on my caucasion dialect ...

What the heck happened to the Pats?

449 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:00:33pm

re: #434 wozzablog

Until resistence sets in.

Over reliance on antibiotics prescribed for headcolds and the like - combined with antibiotics in the food supply are making human bodies more resistent to them than we need to be.

just asking a question here - if you were faced with a choice of two meats (the same price) one beiing organic and one being antibiotically farmed and intensively reared... which would you choose?

How much does each of them cost? I need that info before I can answer.

450 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:00:50pm

re: #431 Kewalo

No obsession with puberty except as a sign that something is not right. If we owe our children anything it is healthy food and water. And if there is so much data proving me so wrong where the hell is it?

And really, if you are going to debate anyone here, at least do so honestly. You have spent the last hour obfuscating, avoiding and playing "dumb." I suspect you have no clue on how you are coming across on my side of the monitor, but I have been reading your comments for the last hour or so, and you are purposely being vague and obtuse.

Answer the fucking questions honestly, why don't you?

451 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:01:01pm

re: #439 windsagio

Antibiotics in general? I presume you mean 'antibiotics in livestock'. In that case, I'd throw back and see a study. There are alot of factors that go into that (ie resistance)... and there's also the use of antibiotics as growth promoters. Higher productivity is certainly good, but is it saving lives directly?

You're taking 2 exceptionally complex issues and simplifying them terribly.

Everything is multiplex, not complex; but if we are to communicate at all we have to keep some things basic. I'm speaking of antibiotics in beef. Simply the fact that more cows survive, making the cost of all proteins lower for consumers means that some get a balanced diet that they otherwise would not get.

452 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:01:27pm

re: #418 Thanos

We've got to get back to the land
And set our souls free...

453 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:01:32pm

re: #448 HoosierHoops

What the heck happened to the Pats?

remember chernobyl? yesterday was chernobyl II

454 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:01:53pm

re: #447 Soap_Man

It's hard to make a great entrance. Well done sir.

thank you very much

455 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:02:26pm

re: #446 brookly red

word.

nice!

456 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:02:49pm

re: #451 Thanos

well except that in the US we eat way more meat than we should.

What about the antibiotic-resistance issue? Where do you come down on that?

also, lol semantics ('multiplex').

457 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:03:06pm

re: #445 windsagio

heh I'm starting to think that we're hitting an insoluble problem (and note I don't agree with you totally :p)

People are reacting to a stereotype of the 'all organic foods homeopath hippie' and not any specific arguments in this thread >

Not "all organic foods homeopath hippie", but ignorant. Ignorance that can affect us all and is a real threat to this country --a more real and present danger than unproven assertions about the food supply or medical technology.

458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:03:06pm

re: #419 Walter L. Newton

I hired an ARC workshop once to put together some displays a few years ago. Several of the ladies who work there go to my Church (mostly Down Syndrome), they're in the "Sunshine Class".

There's a dozen or so of them, every couple of years, one of the ladies will pass away. My Church mourns like at no other time. We so love our Sunshine girls.

I learned an admiration for the "regular" folks that worked with them. Takes patience that I can not fathom.

I will go out on a limb and state a declarative, No human on earth has the capacity to hug better than someone with Downs.

459 Digital Display  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:03:15pm

re: #453 _RememberTonyC

remember chernobyl? yesterday was chernobyl II

I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about playing the Ravens Sunday...

460 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:03:29pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

Hi ya, Walter. I have heard that the drought in CO has abated, I guess as of this time last year. So, we are think of a trip to Dillon in the summer. Does the lake look good? I understand it is under ice and snow at the moment.

FWIW, I don't think vaccines cause autism.

461 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:03:37pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

the one thing he SHOULD answer is the stupid vaccine thing.

Yes its a dirty McCarthyite trick, on the other hand. Dirty McCarthyite tricks work, and its not hard to answer :p

462 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:03:39pm

re: #440 Kewalo

No, I have not said I'd be proven right. I would be ecstatic to be proven wrong. What I have said is there is no studies done that prove me wrong right now.

And while I thank you for the link, it really doesn't say much does it?

Would you feel better if I said it was my hypothesis rather then my opinion? :)

I would suggest ALL LIZARDS ignore Kewalo until he does a little research... here, start below...


Vaccines didn't cause autism, court rules

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

[Link: specialchildren.about.com...]

[Link: discovermagazine.com...]

[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

463 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:04:18pm

re: #445 windsagio

heh I'm starting to think that we're hitting an insoluble problem (and note I don't agree with you totally :p)

People are reacting to a stereotype of the 'all organic foods homeopath hippie' and not any specific arguments in this thread >

This can happen. Its a byproduct of the Culture War. People assume that someone of certain tastes holds certain political views. Moreover, the stuff you hinted at about Israel yesterday may also have served to make people suspicious.

464 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:04:36pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

And really, if you are going to debate anyone here, at least do so honestly. You have spent the last hour obfuscating, avoiding and playing "dumb." I suspect you have no clue on how you are coming across on my side of the monitor, but I have been reading your comments for the last hour or so, and you are purposely being vague and obtuse.

Answer the fucking questions honestly, why don't you?

I regret that I have but one upding to give for that comment.

465 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:04:43pm

re: #459 HoosierHoops

I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about playing the Ravens Sunday...

they are nasty .... but I like the colts to win

466 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:05:27pm

re: #460 prairiefire

Hi ya, Walter. I have heard that the drought in CO has abated, I guess as of this time last year. So, we are think of a trip to Dillon in the summer. Does the lake look good? I understand it is under ice and snow at the moment.

FWIW, I don't think vaccines cause autism.

I'm not near Lake Dillion, can't answer your question. If you do get this way, email me (click on my name, go to my website and email), maybe you can stop in for a few hours.

467 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:05:37pm

re: #442 brookly red

[Link: www.ota.com...]

468 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:06:11pm

re: #441 Decatur Deb

This is thrown by cheese:


[Video]

That looks as much fun as a barrel-full of monkey on crack cocaine.

There's actually a guy wearing a horse's head at 2:05.

I wonder what's in their water?

469 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:06:56pm

re: #456 windsagio

I'm not seeing the ignorance.

To to back to the DDT example:

At first we thought it was a cure-all, and harmless.
Then we found out that it did some pretty bad harms to the environment.
Now we're becoming reasonable and saying there are some allowable uses for it, just not the crazy mass-dusting deal.

I'm hoping that we can skip from stage 1 to stage 3 here. They're not all bad, obviously. But assuming that we totally understand them and they have no effect is also foolish. Certainly if (as I do) I had the money, I'd take the effort to be careful with something we simply don't understand.

470 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:07:16pm

re: #449 Dark_Falcon

they were the same price in the hypothetical question.....

Lets say - they were both mid priced of the similar cuts available in the supermarket.

471 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:07:24pm

re: #445 windsagio

heh I'm starting to think that we're hitting an insoluble problem (and note I don't agree with you totally :p)

People are reacting to a stereotype of the 'all organic foods homeopath hippie' and not any specific arguments in this thread >

Precisely because that mosh pit is what has been proposed. We've wandered all over the map in this discussion just trying to get to "what", but K is not providing a what but rather a spectrum of unknowns that cause her to leap to wild assumptions. Again, the crime rates have gone pretty consistently down, including the sex crimes she mentioned, and the age of puberty has been normed with better data than the one study in the UK in the sixties. The premises she started from to make her wild assertions were wrong from the start.
There is a sane manner to make these arguments.

E.G. We know that some pesticides can change sex in frogs when they get caught in the runoff, just as naturally occurring PH imbalances can.

472 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:07:34pm

re: #458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hired an ARC workshop once to put together some displays a few years ago. Several of the ladies who work there go to my Church (mostly Down Syndrome), they're in the "Sunshine Class".

There's a dozen or so of them, every couple of years, one of the ladies will pass away. My Church mourns like at no other time. We so love our Sunshine girls.

I learned an admiration for the "regular" folks that worked with them. Takes patience that I can not fathom.

I will go out on a limb and state a declarative, No human on earth has the capacity to hug better than someone with Downs.

And like I said above, ARC has different programs in different states. In Colorado, the ARC thrift stores are the main focus. We have 17 supermarket sized stores. In other states they have no stores but other fund raising programs and educational programs.

473 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:08:38pm

re: #468 ryannon

That looks as much fun as a barrel-full of monkey on crack cocaine.

There's actually a guy wearing a horse's head at 2:05.

I wonder what's in their water?

I didn't find a good video of a different cheese race using 50+ lb wheels. They produce a lot of injuries.

474 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:09:01pm

re: #452 Spare O'Lake

We've got to get back to the land
And set our souls free...

With antibiotics and growth hormones.

/

475 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:09:15pm

re: #466 Walter L. Newton

Thanks very much for the invite! I will keep that in mind as we plan our trip. My bot hasn't seen the mountains yet.

476 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:09:27pm

re: #470 wozzablog

they were the same price in the hypothetical question...

Lets say - they were both mid priced of the similar cuts available in the supermarket.

Probably the organic cuts then. My parents favor them. I can't cook a steak myself, so the meat would be for them to cook.

477 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:09:28pm

re: #429 prairiefire

Yup.

A few pubs sell sierra nevada.

i heart it dearly.

478 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:10:13pm

re: #471 Thanos

I suppose thats the problem then. I'm hitting of specific subset of what Kewalo was saying, not the whole shuck'n'jive.

Alot of that stuff is unsupportable, I agree.

479 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:10:15pm

Price is always a factor.

Whole Foods, the largest U.S. natural foods and organic retailer, said the single factor preventing it from carrying the specialty meat in all its 150 stores is that it can't find a single supplier large enough.

Organic beef costs between $4 and $6 a pound, about double that of conventional ground beef.

"I think price is the single biggest impediment to more people choosing organic," said Sonja Tuitele, a spokeswoman with Wild Oats Markets Inc. [Link: www.organicconsumers.org...]

480 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:11:31pm
re: #462 Walter L. Newton

I would suggest ALL LIZARDS ignore Kewalo until he does a little research... here, start below...

The offensive behaviour needs to be corrected.

481 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:12:01pm

re: #458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hired an ARC workshop once to put together some displays a few years ago. Several of the ladies who work there go to my Church (mostly Down Syndrome), they're in the "Sunshine Class".

There's a dozen or so of them, every couple of years, one of the ladies will pass away. My Church mourns like at no other time. We so love our Sunshine girls.

I learned an admiration for the "regular" folks that worked with them. Takes patience that I can not fathom.

I will go out on a limb and state a declarative, No human on earth has the capacity to hug better than someone with Downs.

I agree, but my son with autism is a close second!

482 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:12:05pm

re: #475 prairiefire

PIMF my boy, not a robot.

483 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:12:15pm

I gotta go for a while, again.

Have a great evening Lizards!

484 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:12:28pm

re: #478 windsagio

I suppose thats the problem then. I'm hitting of specific subset of what Kewalo was saying, not the whole shuck'n'jive.

Alot of that stuff is unsupportable, I agree.

You can convince me that non anti biotic beef is better for me if you supply some good studies or data, I'm only a butthead when it comes to being factual.

485 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:13:28pm

re: #477 wozzablog

I'm sorry, that gives me quite a chuckle! I discovered german beer at my time over there for school and I have not looked back.

486 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:13:30pm

re: #480 Spare O'Lake

I would suggest ALL LIZARDS ignore Kewalo AND Spare O'Lake... :)

487 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:13:58pm

re: #486 Walter L. Newton

I would suggest ALL LIZARDS ignore Kewalo AND Spare O'Lake... :)

Who?
//

488 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:14:05pm

re: #261 Rightwingconspirator

Last I knew, Charles had eliminated the 50 comment requirement to ding!
She should check it out! Glad she finally got in!

489 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:14:34pm

re: #458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hired an ARC workshop once to put together some displays a few years ago. Several of the ladies who work there go to my Church (mostly Down Syndrome), they're in the "Sunshine Class".

There's a dozen or so of them, every couple of years, one of the ladies will pass away. My Church mourns like at no other time. We so love our Sunshine girls.

I learned an admiration for the "regular" folks that worked with them. Takes patience that I can not fathom.

I will go out on a limb and state a declarative, No human on earth has the capacity to hug better than someone with Downs.

I can't help thinking of/linking to this music video by Sigur Ros:

490 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:14:50pm

re: #484 Thanos

well thats my problem. I can't think of any real studies that show its better or worse. Its simply too complex (or multiplex, if you prefer :p).

I'll be the first to admit, that in my own life I don't worry about it that much. When I have kids, I'll be a bit more careful with them than I am with myself (presuming I can afford the crap, its freakin' expensive).

491 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:15:16pm

re: #486 Walter L. Newton

sigh, thats kinda ugly man, even in jest :p

492 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:16:12pm

re: #418 Thanos

Here is my original post:

I think there is more weird crimes and although everyone thinks I'm nuts I think it has to do with all the crap that's in our water and food. I saw a show years ago about a small country (Puerto Rico I think) where the little girls were maturing very young, like about 8 yrs old. It turned out it was caused by the hormones that they fed the chickens to make them grow faster.

Our water if full of medications, hormones and God knows what else. How could it not effect us? And who knows what they are feeding livestock these days.

IMO we should have zero tolerance for dirty water, but how are we to know?

Now maybe you think I'm being paranoid, but then you've been insulting me for awhile now, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt. I stand by my post. If a small amount of a substance can stop a birth defect why can't a small amount of something else start one. It's just the other side of the issue. And how do we really know when problems with the brain start? It sounds to me like you have just closed your mind to the problem.

493 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:16:20pm

re: #491 windsagio

sigh, thats kinda ugly man, even in jest :p

Well I'm gonna ignore all of you!

actually, I'll bbl

494 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:16:28pm

re: #488 Floral Giraffe

Hi Floral. I mentioned that, but read his #278. Hope all is well in beautiful Cali.

495 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:17:34pm

re: #290 Cathypop

Be patient, wait for spring, it may only have frozen to ground level & the roots may still be alive. Don't be too quick to rip it out.

496 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:17:51pm

can i ignore myself?

wheres my boycot?..........

do i have to be left out?...........

497 Digital Display  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:18:01pm

re: #488 Floral Giraffe

Last I knew, Charles had eliminated the 50 comment requirement to ding!
She should check it out! Glad she finally got in!

Good evening young lady..Hope today finds you well and happy

498 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:18:03pm

re: #492 Kewalo

zero-tolerance is totally impossible. Beyond that, the water impurities are trace at best.

As a general rule the potential harms aren't worth the massive cost fixing it would entail. Already we have a number of rules in healthcare about med disposal at such to control the contamination issues.

Again, its all about rational risk-analysis.

499 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:19:28pm

re: #421 windsagio

I'm a she LOL.

I may go too far. But I also don't think we should hide from the fact that more and more pollution is getting to us and may be causing more harm then we know.

500 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:19:34pm

re: #491 windsagio

sigh, thats kinda ugly man, even in jest :p

Who you callin' a kinda ugly man?

501 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:19:39pm

re: #470 wozzablog

they were the same price in the hypothetical question...

Lets say - they were both mid priced of the similar cuts available in the supermarket.

And one animal was butchered by an order of French Celestinian Nuns and the other by genocidal Hutus?

502 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:20:31pm

re: #496 wozzablog

can i ignore myself?


/put your thumb & forefingers together & go Ommmmmm

503 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:20:53pm

re: #496 wozzablog

Aww. I'll ignore you, {Wozzy}. Feel better?

504 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:21:10pm

re: #491 windsagio

sigh, thats kinda ugly man, even in jest :p

Spare O'Lake up dinged me. I think we understand each other a bit better than you do... ok. No problem. SOL and I are always batting at each other. Rarely do either of us go into total "death to the..." mode.

Chill.

505 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:21:26pm

re: #492 Kewalo

And I'm saying your post is full of falsity. 8 yr old is not abnormal for that population group as confirmed by medical authorities, the previous studies and numbers that established the "norm" were wrong and doubly wrong due to genetic factors for Puerto Rico. Crime rates, including "weird ones" are going down. See the FBI data link.
As to the rest I recommend you get a water filter and calm down.

506 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:21:33pm

re: #486 Walter L. Newton

I would suggest ALL LIZARDS ignore Kewalo AND Spare O'Lake... :)

Why would you want to ignore me? I haven't been rude to anyone or called them paranoid or anything. Is there a partyline here that I've crossed or something?

507 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:21:42pm

re: #473 Decatur Deb

I didn't find a good video of a different cheese race using 50+ lb wheels. They produce a lot of injuries.

Those videos are generally sold under the counter.

It's a niche market, to be sure.

508 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:22:35pm

All the hormone intake has got people jumpy.

509 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:22:36pm

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

Go ahead. Give me that genetically modified food. I'll eat the beef with the Prions in it. I love breathing smog. I shit out carcinogens.

*puffs out chest*

510 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:23:21pm

re: #499 Kewalo

eeh, I tend to use the generic he unless I know for sure. In general the rule is 'its a man until you see them in person', but it seems to be polite to take people at their words ;) I'll remember you're a she in the future :P

re: #500 Spare O'Lake

... I'd rather not say. I like my nuts.

re: #504 Walter L. Newton

TBH, I wanted to reply to your first suggestion, but I got distracted discussing things with Thanos and missed the response window. So I just hit it the second time~

Its not up to you to tell people to ignore someone (Kewalo).

511 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:23:55pm

re: #509 Racer X

No one's going to give a fly fook until you start pissing out gasoline.

512 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:24:03pm

re: #503 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #502 brookly red


thanks guys, knew i could count of some of you to not make me feel left out :-)

513 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:24:11pm

re: #507 ryannon

Those videos are generally sold under the counter.

It's a niche market, to be sure.

Nah. You just have to set your Google preferences to "Allow Git Mayhem".

[Link: cnettv.cnet.com...]

514 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:24:22pm

re: #509 Racer X

wait till you hear about how they're putting clay nanoparticles in your beer to preserve its head!


(actually thats cool rather than scary, but its interesting!)

515 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:24:23pm

re: #511 Slumbering Behemoth

Then there will be a toilet tax.........

516 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:24:34pm

re: #486 Walter L. Newton

I would suggest ALL LIZARDS ignore Kewalo AND Spare O'Lake... :)

No TRUE LIZARD....

517 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:24:49pm

re: #506 Kewalo

Why would you want to ignore me? I haven't been rude to anyone or called them paranoid or anything. Is there a partyline here that I've crossed or something?

This is a very hostile room for anti-vaxers. People have been banned for spouting anti-vaccine propaganda here.

518 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:25:18pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

And really, if you are going to debate anyone here, at least do so honestly. You have spent the last hour obfuscating, avoiding and playing "dumb." I suspect you have no clue on how you are coming across on my side of the monitor, but I have been reading your comments for the last hour or so, and you are purposely being vague and obtuse.

Answer the fucking questions honestly, why don't you?

Oh, I just read this. I'm not playing "dumb" I gave my opinion and when asked I tried to explain what I meant. I guess I don't have a clue how I'm coming across. Why don't you explain?

519 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:25:20pm

re: #515 wozzablog

Then there will be a toilet tax...

Nah, I'm thinking a higher beer tax.

520 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:25:38pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

actually did Kewalo ever take an anti-vax position? AFAIK she (see? I remembered!) just ignored the question.

521 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:25:40pm

re: #511 Slumbering Behemoth

No one's going to give a fly fook until you start pissing out gasoline.

I'm workin on it man. My colon can only crack so much crude. So far I only get methane.

*poot*

522 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:25:40pm

re: #512 wozzablog

re: #502 brookly red

thanks guys, knew i could count of some of you to not make me feel left out :-)

{wozzy}
No way you'd ever be left out.

523 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:25:52pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

This is a very hostile room for anti-vaxers. People have been banned for spouting anti-vaccine propaganda here.

She said she wasn't when I finally got her to answer. So please don't carry that forward.

524 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:25:56pm

re: #509 Racer X

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

Go ahead. Give me that genetically modified food. I'll eat the beef with the Prions in it. I love breathing smog. I shit out carcinogens.

*puffs out chest*

here, have some Velveeta....re: #512 wozzablog

re: #502 brookly red

thanks guys, knew i could count of some of you to not make me feel left out :-)

/ now isn't it time for you to buy us another round?

525 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:26:07pm

re: #506 Kewalo

the partyline is 1-800-lgf-rulez...........all the hottest of us are there.....

unless i've got the number wrong.............

526 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:26:29pm

re: #512 wozzablog

I wish my ex-girlfriends were more like you.
/

527 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:26:39pm

re: #522 reine.de.tout

awww shux

x

528 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:26:41pm

re: #523 Thanos

Oh I missed that. Damn threads go so fast >

529 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:26:59pm

re: #519 Slumbering Behemoth

Nah, I'm thinking a higher beer tax.

that freakin tears it, where did I put that bloody musket!

530 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:27:49pm

I prefer, other than by a chosen few, to be ignored

531 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:27:52pm

re: #506 Kewalo

Why would you want to ignore me? I haven't been rude to anyone or called them paranoid or anything. Is there a partyline here that I've crossed or something?

No, you've not been a bit rude.
Just seem to be somewhat resistant to becoming informed.

532 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:27:54pm

re: #529 brookly red

Bitter Beer Clinger!

533 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:28:00pm

re: #526 Slumbering Behemoth

I wish my ex-girlfriends were more like you.
/

Ewwww

534 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:28:14pm

re: #530 albusteve

I'll never ignore you, Steve-O!

535 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:28:27pm

re: #526 Slumbering Behemoth

I wish my ex-girlfriends were more like you.
/

Wozzy's a girl?

536 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:28:40pm

re: #510 windsagio

I can do what the fuck I want to do. And if Kewalo doesn't like it, she can tell me. Who the hell made you thread police? Sorry Charlie, this is not always "can't we all get along" whether you like it or not.

I have asked Kewalo questions and she has refused to answer them, I have linked to 5 articles that explain the lack of evidence between vaccines and autism and she has refuse to even acknowledge that she saw the links and she has been avoiding honestly debating Thanos and others.

I have every fucking right to state my opinion.

537 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:28:42pm

re: #523 Thanos

She said she wasn't when I finally got her to answer. So please don't carry that forward.

Understood. If she's not, then she has nothing to worry about from me.

538 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:29:04pm

re: #532 Slumbering Behemoth

Bitter Beer Clinger!

for this stuff I need shooters....

539 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:29:08pm

re: #534 windsagio

I'll never ignore you, Steve-O!

540 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:29:14pm

re: #427 windsagio

Lol, I HATE the Vaccine idea. Just want to make it absolutely clear. I have an older brother whose Autistic, and I work in health care. Those nutjobs (RFK Jr. Can metaphorically die!) really make me crazy.

As to the other thing... Unfortunately, we're talking about a very complex area. Its almost impossible to isolate these kind of things for independent study. On the other hand, ask people who have been through Endicrinology classes recently, and ask what they think about the growth hormone subject.

Unfortunately the subject isn't something that can be proven either way at this point.

Exactly! As far as I can tell, while there is some research going on, there's not enough IMO.

I'm sorry about your brother. I'm very lucky that we don't have it in our family. What do you think of the idea that autistic children are mostly born to educated women?

541 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:29:26pm

Hello all!

542 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:29:35pm

re: #535 reine.de.tout

Wozzy's a girl?

I don't know, but Wozzy wanted to be ignored, hence my wish.

543 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:29:36pm

re: #530 albusteve

I prefer, other than by a chosen few, to be ignored

Who in the hell is albusteve?

544 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:29:57pm

re: #509 Racer X

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

Go ahead. Give me that genetically modified food. I'll eat the beef with the Prions in it. I love breathing smog. I shit out carcinogens.

*puffs out chest*

Lungs explode.

545 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:30:07pm

re: #485 prairiefire

You discovered beer at school........... ;-)


woot!


German beers are prety darn good.

546 Digital Display  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:30:38pm

re: #541 LudwigVanQuixote

Hello all!

Hi Ludwig!

547 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:30:43pm

re: #535 reine.de.tout

Only at weekends........... and even then only in niche chatrooms.........

548 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:31:00pm

re: #540 Kewalo

Oh man, the stories I could tell you! I had an... interesting childhood ;)

549 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:31:42pm

re: #543 Walter L. Newton

Who in the hell is albusteve?


like that

550 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:31:50pm

re: #547 wozzablog

Wait, you work with Chris Hansen?

551 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:31:56pm

href="/showc/546/8014201">#546 HoosierHoops

Hi Ludwig!

Hey Hoops, always a pleasure!

552 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:32:22pm

re: #536 Walter L. Newton

You were telling people to ignore her. Thats alot more than 'stating your opinion', man. People can ignore her if they want (and lol@at calling someone else thread police when you're trying to suppress someone)

553 Jolo5309  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:32:27pm

re: #344 Racer X

I was always more of a Banana Republic kinda guy...

554 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:33:16pm

re: #514 windsagio

wait till you hear about how they're putting clay nanoparticles in your beer to preserve its head!

(actually thats cool rather than scary, but its interesting!)

With Brooklyn accent:

Poisonally, I find that more scary than cool.

555 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:33:27pm

re: #552 windsagio

You were telling people to ignore her. Thats alot more than 'stating your opinion', man. People can ignore her if they want (and lol@at calling someone else thread police when you're trying to suppress someone)

Yawn.

556 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:33:28pm

re: #550 Slumbering Behemoth

Had to google him............

No - my contract says i have never met him.....

557 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:33:28pm

re: #552 windsagio

You were telling people to ignore her. Thats alot more than 'stating your opinion', man. People can ignore her if they want (and lol@at calling someone else thread police when you're trying to suppress someone)

it's for their own good...Walters doing him a favor

558 Digital Display  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:34:45pm

re: #551 LudwigVanQuixote

href="/showc/546/8014201">#546 HoosierHoops

Hey Hoops, always a pleasure!

Did you hear I'm being transfered to Singapore this year...
Hopefully ESPN over there is not in Chinese....

559 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:34:45pm

re: #557 albusteve

it's for their own good...Walters doing him a favor

heh I trust people on here enough to think that they don't need to be protected from anyone.

560 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:34:47pm

re: #554 ryannon

With Brooklyn accent:

Poisonally, I find that more scary than cool.

Poisonally I don't want no kitty litter in my brew...

561 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:34:56pm

re: #462 Walter L. Newton

I would suggest ALL LIZARDS ignore Kewalo until he does a little research... here, start below...

Vaccines didn't cause autism, court rules

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

[Link: specialchildren.about.com...]

[Link: discovermagazine.com...]

[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

What is going on here? I never said I thought that autism was caused by vaccines. I know darn well you can read Walter, so why are you making an issue out of vaccines?

My premise is that I think that autism might very well be started in the womb and be a weird type of birth defect in the brain.

I don't know how the vaccine subject came up but I didn't think I had to answer every question that was asked of me since it had nothing to do with what I was concerned about which was food and water.

562 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:35:18pm

re: #541 LudwigVanQuixote

Hello all!

Hi Ludwig! Ma nishma?

563 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:35:57pm

Wow - you want to know the real badness? Previously Dr's were giving hormone shots to very young girls to delay the onset of what was back then declared "early puberty" when 15 percent of the population shows signs as early as 8.

The new guidelines, developed by the Lawson Wilkins Pediatric Endocrine Society and published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, Pediatrics, are based primarily on a study of more than 17,000 girls between the ages of three and 12 who were patients in more than 200 pediatricians’ offices across the country (Herman-Giddens, et al., 1997). The study, by Marcia Herman-Giddens, DrPH, and her colleagues at University of North Carolina School of Public Health, is unique, making it difficult to know exactly how the age of breast and pubic hair development has changed over time. Previous standards of "normal puberty" were set more than 30 years ago, based on a study of less than 200 girls in a British orphanage in the 1960s (Marshall and Tanner 1969).


[Link: www.center4research.org...]

564 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:36:23pm

Awesome bio about Sam Cooke tonight on American Masters on PBS. Cool

565 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:36:30pm

re: #506 Kewalo

Why would you want to ignore me? I haven't been rude to anyone or called them paranoid or anything. Is there a partyline here that I've crossed or something?

If we do not toe the line around here we get sent to Lizard Bible Camp.

566 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:37:10pm

The stupid continues at Drudge. This time they have some text over two mugs of Harry Reid:

At the height of battle, fresh-faced Senate Majority Leader looks stress-free, scrubbed, smooth and 20 years younger! The dramatic new before and after photos of the 70-year old show a change you can believe in! It appears the Nevada elder is trying to keep up with the House Speaker on more than just healthcare bills...

Kind of dovetails with their linking to Inforwars.

567 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:37:18pm

re: #558 HoosierHoops

Did you hear I'm being transfered to Singapore this year...
Hopefully ESPN over there is not in Chinese...

I did not hear that, but congratulations! It should be a marvelous adventure.

568 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:37:45pm

re: #562 Alouette

Hi Ludwig! Ma nishma?

Tov meod! And you?

569 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:37:46pm

Man, this planet just get's weirder every day.

"One does not simply rock into Mordor"

570 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:37:49pm

re: #559 windsagio

heh I trust people on here enough to think that they don't need to be protected from anyone.

then why are you doing exactly that?

571 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:38:00pm

re: #561 Kewalo

What is going on here? I never said I thought that autism was caused by vaccines. I know darn well you can read Walter, so why are you making an issue out of vaccines?

My premise is that I think that autism might very well be started in the womb and be a weird type of birth defect in the brain.

I don't know how the vaccine subject came up but I didn't think I had to answer every question that was asked of me since it had nothing to do with what I was concerned about which was food and water.

It's been hard to understand what you have said in response to other comments.

It was certainly not clear to me, up to the comment above, what your opinion was on this subject.

On that note, then I apologize. I know your position, that's all I was interested in.

572 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:38:01pm

re: #560 brookly red

The nanoparticle thing is cool as hell!

Note: I think they're great (at least within reason :p)

some links tho:

[Link: www.scientificamerican.com...]

(note the reporter with the awesome name "Ian Illuminato")

[Link: www.foodproductiondaily.com...]

True food-purity nuts are pretty maddening tho'.

573 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:39:24pm

re: #558 HoosierHoops

Did you hear I'm being transfered to Singapore this year...
Hopefully ESPN over there is not in Chinese...

美国人胜利! 美国人胜利!

(Yankees win! theeeeee Yankees win!) LOL

574 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:39:34pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

This is a very hostile room for anti-vaxers. People have been banned for spouting anti-vaccine propaganda here.

Maybe I'm not paying attention, but I haven't seen anyone suggesting the contrary here (pro-anti-vaxing).

And were I challenged in such a hard-nosed way to give a 'yes/no' response, I'd be a lot less polite about it than what I've seen so far. Which is to say that like most people, I react badly to bullying and coercion.

575 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:39:50pm

Well, China is at it again. Seems that a bunch of jewelry they have distributed around the world, and to the US is contaminated. This time, it is cadmium, which can cause all manner of mental defect and can cause cancer.

A day after The Associated Press documented the contamination in an investigative report, the top U.S. consumer safety regulator warned Asian manufacturers not to substitute other toxins for lead in children's charm bracelets and pendants.

Regulators and lawmakers reacted swiftly to the AP report, which found that some Chinese manufacturers have been using cadmium, sometimes at extraordinarily high levels. Congress clamped down on lead in those products in 2008, but cadmium is even more harmful.

Melissa Hill, a spokeswoman for Wal-Mart Stores Inc., called the AP findings "troubling." She said the company, which is the world's largest retailer, had a special responsibility "to take swift action, and we are doing so."

Members of Congress voiced anger about the imports. Sen. Bill Nelson, a Florida Democrat, said he's reviewing the law that regulates such substances to decide if a fix is needed.

"Parents will be outraged to learn certain jewelry makers overseas thought they could pull a fast one at the expense of our kids' safety," said Democratic Sen. Mark Pryor of Arkansas, who has championed stronger rules for children's products.

Cadmium, which is known to cause cancer, is a soft, whitish metal that occurs naturally in soil. It's perhaps best known as half of rechargeable nickel-cadmium batteries, but also is used in pigments, electroplating and plastic.

576 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:39:57pm

re: #566 Gus 802

Sorry Gus, missing that connection? It's always been the norm at Drudge to kick a Dem when they are down, the Alex Jones Link thing is new however.

577 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:40:10pm

re: #570 albusteve

Man, you living in a mirror universe? I'm not telling people to ignore someone.

578 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:40:47pm

re: #445 windsagio

heh I'm starting to think that we're hitting an insoluble problem (and note I don't agree with you totally :p)

People are reacting to a stereotype of the 'all organic foods homeopath hippie' and not any specific arguments in this thread >

I knew not everyone would agree with me. But I have been stunned by the hostility from some people.

And what's funny is that the organic food, ect. is just an assumption based on one link. At no time have I brought it up or commented on it.

579 ILoveIsrael  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:40:47pm

Would anyone care to offer his or her opinion about Obama's political survivability given a successful nuclear weapons test by Iran?

580 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:40:54pm

re: #576 Thanos

Sorry Gus, missing that connection? It's always been the norm at Drudge to kick a Dem when they are down, the Alex Jones Link thing is new however.

I've been visiting Drudge for years. Never saw anything this dumb.

581 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:41:18pm

re: #575 lawhawk

You know how it it'll be... Show trial, execute one or 2 unlucky officials, then back to business as usual (maybe a waiting period before things get as bad again).

582 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:41:18pm

re: #579 ILoveIsrael

Would anyone care to offer his or her opinion about Obama's political survivability given a successful nuclear weapons test by Iran?

depends on where they test it...

583 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:42:40pm

re: #574 ryannon

The science simply doesn't support the anti-vaxxer position, and the anti-vax crowd is putting lives at risk precisely because it undermines the public health benefits to the community at large for communicable diseases that are easily prevented. Resurgence of diseases like measles, whooping cough, etc. are directly attributable to the anti-vaxxer crowd and the hysterics about how vaccines supposedly cause autism (because of thimerosol, which hasn't been present in the vaccines for years, and yet rates continue rising).

584 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:43:13pm

re: #569 Slumbering Behemoth

Man, this planet just get's weirder every day.

"One does not simply rock into Mordor"

Ugh, that's bad .... realll bad.. almost Shatneresque in proportion....

585 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:43:17pm

re: #582 brookly red

depends on where they test it...

and his response, I'd imagine.

586 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:43:42pm

re: #575 lawhawk

Well, China is at it again. Seems that a bunch of jewelry they have distributed around the world, and to the US is contaminated. This time, it is cadmium, which can cause all manner of mental defect and can cause cancer.

Why am I not surprised?

587 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:43:58pm

re: #583 lawhawk

heh nobody's arguing with you.

The question as posed was a bad-faith attempt to bully/discredit what Kewalo was saying. It was totally McCarthy tactics.

588 ILoveIsrael  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:44:05pm

re: #582 brookly red

Hahaha good point, but let's assume for the moment its somewhere far away from people, and they don't make good (not immediately) on their threat to wipe Israel off the map, but simply hang it over everybody's heads.

589 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:44:17pm

re: #569 Slumbering Behemoth

Man, this planet just get's weirder every day.

"One does not simply rock into Mordor"

Forget Mordor. Christopher Lee's greatest movie was "Serial", anti-idiotarian long before its time.

590 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:44:35pm

re: #580 Gus 802

Well maybe it's that Breitbart influence, I personally have detected "teh stoopid" there before, but can't remember an example off hand.

591 Jolo5309  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:14pm

re: #514 windsagio

wait till you hear about how they're putting clay nanoparticles in your beer to preserve its head!


(actually thats cool rather than scary, but its interesting!)

When you make homemade wine you add Bentonite to it to increase the clarity. Bentonite is a clay...

592 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:38pm

re: #585 Slumbering Behemoth

and his response, I'd imagine.

I assume you did not grasp my implication....

593 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:39pm

re: #588 ILoveIsrael

My personal thought is that there won't be much impact. The people likely to freak out and blame Obama specifically already hate him.

594 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:47:31pm

re: #575 lawhawk

And there you go. Fits right in with all of (some of) the above.

595 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:47:47pm

re: #588 ILoveIsrael

Hahaha good point, but let's assume for the moment its somewhere far away from people, and they don't make good (not immediately) on their threat to wipe Israel off the map, but simply hang it over everybody's heads.

O is a one termer but it has nothing to do with Iran.

596 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:48:13pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

This is a very hostile room for anti-vaxers. People have been banned for spouting anti-vaccine propaganda here.

But I am not one of them. And believe me I faced some hostility before the vaccine issue came up.

597 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:48:52pm

re: #440 Kewalo

No, I have not said I'd be proven right.

Oh? W hyd id you say:


I think when they finally get down to really researching it they will find it has been very dangerous.

Isn't that saying you think you'll be proven right?

Would you feel better if I said it was my hypothesis rather then my opinion? :)

No. What you've said doesn't approach a hypothesis.

I, like you, feel that pollutants in our water-- and air-- are a serious cause for concern. However, I am kind of appalled by the breeziness that you assume nobody is researching the subject, the weirdness that you consider your opinion on an objective subject to be as valid as anyone else, and your complete blithe indifference to any information that you're given that doesn't reinforce your view.

There has been no discernible increase in sex crimes, contrary to your implied claim.

There is no reason to believe that hormones in the water could possibly directly affect us, as hormones are not water-soluble.

There are plenty of much, much more hormone-affecting pollutants to worry about. Even if there were somehow a way for us to directly inject hormones from the water, they would still be transitory. However, PCBs and other nasty pollutants cause changes to our hormonal profiles; they change how our bodies produce and react to hormones. Those are far, far more dangerous than hormones.

I have no problem with you saying that the water and the air and our food need to be safeguarded. I have a problem with the mix of pseudoscience and wrong statements you're making attached to that view, because I feel it weakens the argument.

598 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:49:08pm

re: #579 ILoveIsrael

Would anyone care to offer his or her opinion about Obama's political survivability given a successful nuclear weapons test by Iran?

It's Bush's fault, not his.

599 ILoveIsrael  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:49:25pm

re: #592 brookly red

Once they have it, it's too late. Unless he can destroy their nuclear infrastructure and existing weapons, but that's unlikely. Just look at what's going on with N. Korea. A strong response would not be an available option.

600 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:49:58pm

re: #494 prairiefire

LOL!
It's sometimes really hard, to jump into the middle of a thread!
I saw your post later!
Nice & warm here today.

601 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:50:03pm

re: #531 reine.de.tout

No, you've not been a bit rude.
Just seem to be somewhat resistant to becoming informed.

Oh? You have some kind of data that would show that what is in our food and water isn't harming us? Because if you have I'd love to see it.

602 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:50:06pm

re: #589 Decatur Deb

Excuse NSFW. Thought that was the commercial trailer.

603 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:50:24pm

re: #583 lawhawk

You. are. preaching. to. the. choir.

604 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:52:08pm

re: #595 brookly red

Psychic powers or wishful thinking?

605 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:52:41pm

re: #599 ILoveIsrael

Once they have it, it's too late. Unless he can destroy their nuclear infrastructure and existing weapons, but that's unlikely. Just look at what's going on with N. Korea. A strong response would not be an available option.

re: Once they have it, it's too late Yes. But I am pretty sure that is not going to happen... nothing I care to discuss though, if you know what I mean.

606 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:53:10pm

re: #587 windsagio

heh nobody's arguing with you.

The question as posed was a bad-faith attempt to bully/discredit what Kewalo was saying. It was totally McCarthy tactics.

No it was a simple question with a simple answer that got dodged for two whole eternities. "Are you an antivaxxer" becomes valid inquiry when your nose gets rubbed in several facts and you continue to make nonsense statements. It's a way to see how far down the natural food / homeopathic cure / vaccines / science / modern agriculture=bad curve you have marched. If you answer yes to the Jim Carry q, then I assume further discussion or argumentation is wholly futile.

Now are you now or have you ever been an anti vaxxer. This is going on record....

///

607 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:53:36pm

re: #604 windsagio

Psychic powers or wishful thinking?

writings on the wall...

608 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:53:56pm

re: #575 lawhawk

Well, China is at it again. Seems that a bunch of jewelry they have distributed around the world, and to the US is contaminated. This time, it is cadmium, which can cause all manner of mental defect and can cause cancer.

Well there goes the Rolex knockoff.
:(

609 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:54:03pm

re: #498 windsagio

zero-tolerance is totally impossible. Beyond that, the water impurities are trace at best.

As a general rule the potential harms aren't worth the massive cost fixing it would entail. Already we have a number of rules in healthcare about med disposal at such to control the contamination issues.

Again, its all about rational risk-analysis.

This is all very true. But who would have thought that such a minute amount of folic acid could change things so much for expectant mothers. That is primarily my point. It doesn't take a whole lot of anything to mess up a fetus or young child.

And while I agree zero-tolerance is impossible, if we do find out that something is causing brain defects we can do something about it.

610 ILoveIsrael  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:55:31pm

re: #598 ryannon

It's Bush's fault, not his.


Of course it's Bush's fault. But it's in Obama's hands now, and he can still do something about it. But his options do grow thinner with every passing day. There's even a good chance that strong sanctions (which are NOT being encouraged at the moment, as they're watering them down to only affect the ruling elite) will be met with harsh reaction by Iran. Contrary to what many people think, the Iranians can create some VERY SERIOUS problems for the U.S, even without a nuclear weapon.

611 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:56:24pm

re: #609 Kewalo

We don't want yer stinkin' iodized salt.

(Retracts head into goiter)

612 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:56:38pm

re: #609 Kewalo


And while I agree zero-tolerance is impossible, if we do find out that something is causing brain defects we can do something about it.


the major networks are not going to go quietly....

613 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:57:07pm

re: #609 Kewalo

So tell me how you feel about Dr's misdiagnosing "early puberty" and giving children hormone shots to delay their normal onset of puberty?

614 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:57:10pm

re: #610 ILoveIsrael

It's Bush's fault, not his.

Of course it's Bush's fault. But it's in Obama's hands now, and he can still do something about it. But his options do grow thinner with every passing day. There's even a good chance that strong sanctions (which are NOT being encouraged at the moment, as they're watering them down to only affect the ruling elite) will be met with harsh reaction by Iran. Contrary to what many people think, the Iranians can create some VERY SERIOUS problems for the U.S, even without a nuclear weapon.

I didn't think the sarc tag was necessary.

615 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:57:26pm

re: #607 brookly red

Still a few years to go yet - no mainstream GOP candidate on the horizon........... and an economy thats likely to improve over the next three years.

the writing is only on the bathroom stall at the moment

616 ILoveIsrael  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:58:28pm

re: #614 ryannon

woops

617 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:58:36pm

re: #615 wozzablog

Still a few years to go yet - no mainstream GOP candidate on the horizon... and an economy thats likely to improve over the next three years.

the writing is only on the bathroom stall at the moment

as you like it.

618 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:59:39pm

re: #571 Walter L. Newton

It's been hard to understand what you have said in response to other comments.

It was certainly not clear to me, up to the comment above, what your opinion was on this subject.

On that note, then I apologize. I know your position, that's all I was interested in.

That's OK...several of the posts about me have been full of assumptions rather then facts.

In case you're interested. I drink, smoke, eat meat (and love the fat) and don't exercise. And in fact as we post I'm having a Meyers and coke.

619 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:00:32pm

re: #618 Kewalo

That's OK...several of the posts about me have been full of assumptions rather then facts.

In case you're interested. I drink, smoke, eat meat (and love the fat) and don't exercise. And in fact as we post I'm having a Meyers and coke.

/and a pain in my left arm....

620 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:02:40pm

re: #574 ryannon

Maybe I'm not paying attention, but I haven't seen anyone suggesting the contrary here (pro-anti-vaxing).

And were I challenged in such a hard-nosed way to give a 'yes/no' response, I'd be a lot less polite about it than what I've seen so far. Which is to say that like most people, I react badly to bullying and coercion.

Believe it or not that was how I felt the first time someone demanded and answer to that question. There was no reason to demand an answer since I hadn't brought up vaccines since I know it's settled science.

621 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:04:17pm

re: #610 ILoveIsrael

It's Bush's fault, not his.

Of course it's Bush's fault. But it's in Obama's hands now, and he can still do something about it. But his options do grow thinner with every passing day. There's even a good chance that strong sanctions (which are NOT being encouraged at the moment, as they're watering them down to only affect the ruling elite) will be met with harsh reaction by Iran. Contrary to what many people think, the Iranians can create some VERY SERIOUS problems for the U.S, even without a nuclear weapon.

the giant is slow to anger but can get really pissy if provoked.

622 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:06:06pm

re: #615 wozzablog

Still a few years to go yet - no mainstream GOP candidate on the horizon... and an economy thats likely to improve over the next three years.

the writing is only on the bathroom stall at the moment

Ha! You got zee crystal ball?

623 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:06:52pm

re: #587 windsagio

heh nobody's arguing with you.

The question as posed was a bad-faith attempt to bully/discredit what Kewalo was saying. It was totally McCarthy tactics.

Thank you, which is exactly why I didn't answer when an answer was demanded. Childish maybe, but it really didn't have anything to do with what I was saying.

624 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:08:43pm

re: #623 Kewalo

I just would have done it differently.

I would have said "Of Course I don't!" And then torn his ass open for the dirty trick.

Different stroke for different folks :)

625 ILoveIsrael  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:09:50pm

re: #621 brookly red

It's Bush's fault, not his.

Of course it's Bush's fault. But it's in Obama's hands now, and he can still do something about it. But his options do grow thinner with every passing day. There's even a good chance that strong sanctions (which are NOT being encouraged at the moment, as they're watering them down to only affect the ruling elite) will be met with harsh reaction by Iran. Contrary to what many people think, the Iranians can create some VERY SERIOUS problems for the U.S, even without a nuclear weapon.

the giant is slow to anger but can get really pissy if provoked.

~40% of the world's oil passes through the Straits of Hormuz. Iran controls that passage. They don't need a powerful navy, just a swarm of small motor boats, laying a bunch of mines in the sea lanes. All you need is to hit one tanker to cause mass panic. Forget economic recovery. To my understanding, the U.S. Navy is not equipped to handle a guerrilla navy consisting of small motorboats. Even if they interdict 90% of them, we could end up in a whole boatload of ****

626 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:11:38pm

re: #611 ryannon

We don't want yer stinkin' iodized salt.

(Retracts head into goiter)

LOL I had an aunt with a goiter and clearly remember my mother going after me for staring at her. They are ugly.

627 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:13:04pm

re: #612 brookly red

And while I agree zero-tolerance is impossible, if we do find out that something is causing brain defects we can do something about it.

the major networks are not going to go quietly...

Dang! And I was hoping the research would do it. Fat chance I guess.

628 The Left  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:15:06pm

re: #624 windsagio

re: #623 Kewalo

I find both techniques useful at different times. It's generally good policy to ignore extraneous demands, particularly when answering means allowing the thread to be derailed and degenerate into 'let's pile on poster x'!

And then again, sometimes people need a good thumpin'. :-)

629 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:15:32pm

re: #613 Thanos

So tell me how you feel about Dr's misdiagnosing "early puberty" and giving children hormone shots to delay their normal onset of puberty?

I'd be afraid of unintended consequences. I'm lucky I'm not a parent that ever had to face that. But it isn't something I've given a whole lot of thought.

630 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:21:23pm

re: #548 windsagio

I'll just bet you have some family stories. And I'll just bet you can find another adjective besides "interesting" too.

631 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:21:34pm

re: #625 ILoveIsrael

~40% of the world's oil passes through the Straits of Hormuz. Iran controls that passage. They don't need a powerful navy, just a swarm of small motor boats, laying a bunch of mines in the sea lanes. All you need is to hit one tanker to cause mass panic. Forget economic recovery. To my understanding, the U.S. Navy is not equipped to handle a guerrilla navy consisting of small motorboats. Even if they interdict 90% of them, we could end up in a whole boatload of ***

Iran does not even come close to controlling the Straits of Hormuz. Of course they would create some problems and might get lucky here and there, but for the most part they would be almost completely neutralised in the opening hours of any real conflict.

Do not underestimate the power of the US Airforce and Navy.

632 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:22:33pm

re: #589 Decatur Deb

Here's another great cinematic moment of anti-idiotarianism feat. Christopher Lee. From "The Horror Express".

633 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:23:56pm

re: #592 brookly red

I assume you did not grasp my implication...

I grasped it perfectly well, I think.

634 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:25:05pm

re: #632 Slumbering Behemoth

Here's another great cinematic moment of anti-idiotarianism feat. Christopher Lee. From "The Horror Express".

There must be a way to keep that in the ready-rack for the inevitable return of the ID Zombies.

635 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:28:33pm

re: #634 Decatur Deb

Of course. I have it bookmarked for such occasions.

636 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:28:52pm

re: #624 windsagio

I just would have done it differently.

I would have said "Of Course I don't!" And then torn his ass open for the dirty trick.

Different stroke for different folks :)

To be honest I was a little stunned to face his hostility. While I can understand someone not agreeing with me, in fact I expected it, I just felt a little overwhelmed by the attack. I find the subject fascinating and have found that there are some very smart posters here, so I actually expected to hear more facts then I did.

637 ILoveIsrael  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:29:50pm

re: #631 Bagua

~40% of the world's oil passes through the Straits of Hormuz. Iran controls that passage. They don't need a powerful navy, just a swarm of small motor boats, laying a bunch of mines in the sea lanes. All you need is to hit one tanker to cause mass panic. Forget economic recovery. To my understanding, the U.S. Navy is not equipped to handle a guerrilla navy consisting of small motorboats. Even if they interdict 90% of them, we could end up in a whole boatload of ***

Iran does not even come close to controlling the Straits of Hormuz. Of course they would create some problems and might get lucky here and there, but for the most part they would be almost completely neutralised in the opening hours of any real conflict.

Do not underestimate the power of the US Airforce and Navy.

Do not overestimate the U.S. Airforce and Navy. Radar won't be able to detect a five-meter speedboat carrying a couple of guys and one or two sea mines. You can have choppers searching from the air, but even then it would be hard to see a small boat. And there will be many such boats. U.S. Navy has probably prepared for this contingency, and they'll be able to stop many of them, but the Iranians only need to get lucky ONCE. One sunken oil tanker and people will panic and the price of oil will skyrocket.

That being said, the U.S. probably could deal with this threat if they strike first. If the Iranians strike first (which they will do if they think an attack is imminent) then we're in trouble.

638 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:30:52pm

re: #628 iceweasel

re: #623 Kewalo

I find both techniques useful at different times. It's generally good policy to ignore extraneous demands, particularly when answering means allowing the thread to be derailed and degenerate into 'let's pile on poster x'!

And then again, sometimes people need a good thumpin'. :-)

Yeppers, and thanks to a couple of posters I was able to dig my way out of the bottom of that pile. LOL Live and learn huh Ice?

639 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:31:10pm

re: #629 Kewalo

I'd be afraid of unintended consequences. I'm lucky I'm not a parent that ever had to face that. But it isn't something I've given a whole lot of thought.

I poked around PLOS a bit, and the combined theories in the lead right now seem to be that we just didn't have a good range set for normal puberty from earlier studies and that childhood obesity might be causing onset earlier that we saw in the past.

This correlates well with other studies of gymnasts and female athletes who sometimes cannot ovulate until they go off their training routine and regain body fat.

640 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:31:51pm

re: #636 Kewalo

Maybe if you actually acknowledged the facts you were given-- like hormones not being water-soluble, and those pollutants that affect our own production and regulation of hormones being far more a concern than direct ingestion of hormones-- you'd get more of them.

I don't feel much desire to give you more facts, given that you've basically ignored what I've already given you.

641 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:33:41pm

re: #624 windsagio

I just would have done it differently.

I would have said "Of Course I don't!" And then torn his ass open for the dirty trick.

Different stroke for different folks :)

It's not a "dirty trick" it's a fair question that tells me about where someone is coming from in reference to science.

642 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:35:36pm

re: #640 Obdicut

Maybe if you actually acknowledged the facts you were given-- like hormones not being water-soluble, and those pollutants that affect our own production and regulation of hormones being far more a concern than direct ingestion of hormones-- you'd get more of them.

I don't feel much desire to give you more facts, given that you've basically ignored what I've already given you.

Obdicut, I didn't disagree with you, I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. And I wasn't brushing it off or being breezy or ignoring you. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to actually respond to me like you did. Sorry if I didn't make that more clear. I was feeling a little under siege so probably didn't respond the way I should have.

643 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:41:08pm

re: #642 Kewalo

Thank you for saying that.

I still have an enormous problem with you asserting that you have as much of a right to an opinion on an objective, scientific truth is as anyone else, and your assumption that nobody is studying the effects of these hormones, antibiotics, etc in the environment.

It is true that very few people are studying the effects of oral ingestion of hormones in the water, because that science was thoroughly studied already-- hormones in the water will not affect us in any great degree, because hormones are not fat soluble. However, people are studying, many many people, are studying the effects of all our various pollutants on the environment, including what those hormones are doing in the food chain in general.

Thank you for replying, but I still feel that you are making a grave mistake in hypothesizing without data and without a knowledge of the subject.

644 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:42:29pm

re: #622 Bagua

So in three years it'll be worse than it is now?.

Notice you picked up on my optimism for the economy, but not on a saleable GOP candidate.....................

645 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:47:43pm

re: #643 Obdicut

Thank you for saying that.

I still have an enormous problem with you asserting that you have as much of a right to an opinion on an objective, scientific truth is as anyone else, and your assumption that nobody is studying the effects of these hormones, antibiotics, etc in the environment.

It is true that very few people are studying the effects of oral ingestion of hormones in the water, because that science was thoroughly studied already-- hormones in the water will not affect us in any great degree, because hormones are not fat soluble. However, people are studying, many many people, are studying the effects of all our various pollutants on the environment, including what those hormones are doing in the food chain in general.

Thank you for replying, but I still feel that you are making a grave mistake in hypothesizing without data and without a knowledge of the subject.

I really do apologize for not making myself more clear about the facts you posted. One of the reasons I brought it all up to begin with is to get other peoples POV.

646 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:48:53pm

re: #644 wozzablog

So in three years it'll be worse than it is now?.

Notice you picked up on my optimism for the economy, but not on a saleable GOP candidate...

I haven't a clue. I could go on for ages about why we are due for a "correction" and such, but I know for a fact that the market will go where it will and all any of us can do is speculate on what may happen.

And yes, I commented on what interested me. It could be one out of many other points you made this thread. I am interested in the markets.

647 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:52:09pm

re: #645 Kewalo

Thie site below is part of the lizard tool chest - if you want to dig for facts on genetics, biology, evolutionary biology, or medicine, it's a good place to go. In the sidebar are several searchable journals - you won't find the up to the minute cutting edge breakthrough clinical studies there because nobody wants to give up the secret to the next genentech, but you will find a great deal of current data if you use the search tool

[Link: www.plos.org...]

648 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:54:07pm

re: #630 Kewalo

hows this:

I started running 6 miles a day from when I was very young (first 10k when I was 3). We'd run as a family, and my brother wouldn't wanna go and would throw a temper tantrum.

So, my mother would have me sprint up the hill and tell him to chase me. It always worked and before he could ever catch me he'd calm down, and run normally.

My whole family finds this story hilarious. Most people on the outside are horrified >>

649 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:56:34pm

re: #637 ILoveIsrael

Do not overestimate the U.S. Airforce and Navy. Radar won't be able to detect a five-meter speedboat carrying a couple of guys and one or two sea mines. You can have choppers searching from the air, but even then it would be hard to see a small boat. And there will be many such boats. U.S. Navy has probably prepared for this contingency, and they'll be able to stop many of them, but the Iranians only need to get lucky ONCE. One sunken oil tanker and people will panic and the price of oil will skyrocket.

That being said, the U.S. probably could deal with this threat if they strike first. If the Iranians strike first (which they will do if they think an attack is imminent) then we're in trouble.

There is no question the Iranians could wreak some havoc in the absence of full hostilities against an unarmed target like an oil tanker. It's unlikely they could hit an USN vessel except through luck.

Should the game ever be on, the US would neutralise them like a flock of ducks. Technology is very good at this point. Certainly the price or Crude Oil could spike, but the medium and longer term effect on the Oil price is difficult to predict, as witness the first two gulf wars.

I think a much bigger threat would be a missile barrage aimed at the Oil infrastructure in the area. But even then the damage is repairable.

650 Kewalo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:09:10pm

re: #648 windsagio

hows this:

I started running 6 miles a day from when I was very young (first 10k when I was 3). We'd run as a family, and my brother wouldn't wanna go and would throw a temper tantrum.

So, my mother would have me sprint up the hill and tell him to chase me. It always worked and before he could ever catch me he'd calm down, and run normally.

My whole family finds this story hilarious. Most people on the outside are horrified >>

Horrified? I think your mother was a smart cookie. It's takes every bit of imagination to deal with a situation like your family did.

I have a good cyber-buddy that has a child that was oxygen deprived at birth and she tells me stories of raising him that just makes me roll. It takes a lot of heart and the story you just told me about your mom just makes me like her. You do what you have to and the hell with people outside.

651 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:13:38pm

re: #650 Kewalo

Aww thank you :)


Another story as a bonus!

One time when we were young, my brother snuck into my sisters room and broke a picture of (I kid you not) Jesus loving the little children over her head >>

I guess the lesson is that you really do live in a different world growing up like that. A good effect of it is that my sister and I are far closer than any other siblings I know about.

652 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:18:07pm

re: #646 Bagua

It's possible there will be a double dip recession or that the commercial prope market will collapse to such an extent as to wipe out any gains.......

However there is projected growth in 2010 - and into atleast the 1st quarter 2011.

653 ILoveIsrael  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:22:42pm

re: #649 Bagua

There is no question the Iranians could wreak some havoc in the absence of full hostilities against an unarmed target like an oil tanker. It's unlikely they could hit an USN vessel except through luck.

Should the game ever be on, the US would neutralise them like a flock of ducks. Technology is very good at this point. Certainly the price or Crude Oil could spike, but the medium and longer term effect on the Oil price is difficult to predict, as witness the first two gulf wars.

I think a much bigger threat would be a missile barrage aimed at the Oil infrastructure in the area. But even then the damage is repairable.

I certainly agree that a hit on a U.S. Navy ship would be very unlikely. It probably wouldn't even be a primary goal for that reason (although wasn't an American vessel hit and/or sunk in the Iraq-Iran war in the 80s?). Let's also not forget that the Iranians have a lot of influence in Iraq. They could attack American forces. They'd be repelled, but it would be a tough time for us. America is pretty hard pressed over there.

654 prairiefire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:23:31pm

re: #652 wozzablog

From your keyboard to God's ears re: your #615.

655 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:41:35pm

re: #654 prairiefire

Heres hoping.

656 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:24:58pm

re: #441 Decatur Deb

This is thrown by cheese:


[Video]

Awesome! There's some heavy duty tumbling going on. It looks slightly less dangerous than running with the bulls, but I don't know--people taken away on stretchers!

657 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:30:44pm

re: #452 Spare O'Lake

We've got to get back to the land
And set our souls free...

We are stardust, we are golden . . .

658 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:44:17pm

re: #652 wozzablog

It's possible there will be a double dip recession or that the commercial prope market will collapse to such an extent as to wipe out any gains...

However there is projected growth in 2010 - and into atleast the 1st quarter 2011.

Agreed those are two of the weaknesses I am watching, especially commercial bonds which could be the next crisis. And yes we are still in a bull market, however, the "correction" will not be announced and could occur in time for the 2010 election... or in time for 2012, or not. I have no crystal ball.

659 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:47:45pm

re: #653 ILoveIsrael

I certainly agree that a hit on a U.S. Navy ship would be very unlikely. It probably wouldn't even be a primary goal for that reason (although wasn't an American vessel hit and/or sunk in the Iraq-Iran war in the 80s?). Let's also not forget that the Iranians have a lot of influence in Iraq. They could attack American forces. They'd be repelled, but it would be a tough time for us. America is pretty hard pressed over there.

Missile defence has come a long way since the the Iraq-Iran war. But yes, there could be some difficulties and terrorism and such, but the Iranians would be fighting blind and be sitting ducks. Also, the US NAVY and Air Force has plenty of capacity in that area, that is not a factor for anything short of a ground invasion.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 210124We have three kinds of baby fish. About 30 in all that we can see near the surface.Definitely some Shubunkins. Easy to spot with their orange color.Two others we can't ID yet. Two different shades of a dark-ish single color.Some ...
Dangerman
2 days, 10 hours ago
Views: 375 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
Tweets: 0 •
Recent Work, January 2021A few of my recent images. I hope you'll find something enjoyable here. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
2 days, 12 hours ago
Views: 417 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 0 •
Wellerman - the Longest JohnsProvided to YouTube by CDBaby Wellerman · The Longest Johns Between Wind and Water ℗ 2018 The Longest Johns Released on: 2018-06-07 Auto-generated by YouTube.
Thanos
3 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 495 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Godzilla vs. Kong - Official Trailer In theaters and streaming exclusively on @HBOMax* March 26. *Available on @HBOMax in the US only, for 31 days, at no extra cost to subscribers. godzillavskong.comfacebook.cominstagram.com@GodzillaVsKong --- From Warner Bros. Pictures and Legendary Pictures comes the long-awaited face-off between two ...
Thanos
3 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 462 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Mike Garson - What Is This Thing Called Jazz You probably don't know who Mike Garson is, but you've heard his music; notably in Bowie's "Life on Mars" and "Lady Grinning Soul" Mike Garson and the Mike Garson Quartet performs one of Mike's compositions called What Is This ...
Thanos
3 days, 18 hours ago
Views: 485 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Jon Batiste - I NEED YOU Listen to “I NEED YOU” and pre-order my new album “WE ARE” available March 19: jon-batiste.lnk.to Shop merch: jonbatistestore.com Follow Jon:Instagram: jon-batiste.lnk.toFacebook: jon-batiste.lnk.toTwitter: jon-batiste.lnk.toSpotify: jon-batiste.lnk.to Apple Music: jon-batiste.lnk.toAmazon: jon-batiste.lnk.toSoundcloud: jon-batiste.lnk.toPandora: jon-batiste.lnk.toYouTube Music: jon-batiste.lnk.to Official Website: jonbatiste.com Video Credits:Director: Alan ...
Thanos
4 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 647 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Foo Fighters - Waiting on a War (Official Video) 289K Foo Fighters // “Waiting On A War” // Out Now: foofighters.co Medicine At Midnight // The New Album Available Feb. 5 2021Pre-Order // Pre-Save: foofighters.co Director: Paola Kudacki Executive Producer: Liz Silver Producer: Matthew Shattuck Director of Photography: ...
Thanos
4 days, 12 hours ago
Views: 560 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
Ant Clemons & Justin Timberlake: ‘Better Days’ Better days are ahead. Thank you, Justin Timberlake and Ant Clemons for sharing your talent with us tonight! #Inauguration2021 Learn more about the Inauguration: bideninaugural.org Shop Official Inauguration Merch: store.bideninaugural.org Follow the Biden - Harris Presidential Inaugural Committee!Twitter: @BidenInaugural ...
Thanos
4 days, 12 hours ago
Views: 563 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Metric - Auld Anxi - Official Audio My friend Amy told me she always thought of the classic NYE song “Auld Lang Syne” as being old anxiiiiii... like an abbreviation of old anxiety lol. So spot on right now.  I love when Jimmy’s vox come in for ...
Thanos
4 days, 18 hours ago
Views: 581 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 •
Lady Gaga’s MIXED METER Star Spangled Banner?! Analyzing Lady Gaga's version of the star spangled banner she sang for Joe Biden's inauguration. It's pretty cool!Support me on Patreon: patreon.com it's thisYouTube (⌐■_■) ⦿ Adam Neely T-shirts! ⦿teespring.com ⦿ SUPPORT ME ON PATREON ⦿patreon.com ⦿ FOLLOW ME ...
Thanos
4 days, 19 hours ago
Views: 597 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 3 •