Steve Schmidt Goes Even More Rogue

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Former John McCain campaign strategist Steve Schmidt now says Sarah Palin has trouble with the truth.

John McCain’s top campaign strategist said in an interview Sunday that Sarah Palin was dishonest as the GOP’s vice-presidential nominee and that her untruths have done long-term damage to her public image.

“There were numerous instances that she said things that were — that were not accurate that ultimately, the campaign had to deal with,” said Steve Schmidt in an interview broadcast on CBS’s “60 Minutes.” “And that opened the door to criticism that she was being untruthful and inaccurate. And I think that is something that continues to this day.”

Palin also told Schmidt that being picked as McCain’s running mate was “God’s plan.” Here’s a lengthier excerpt from 60 Minutes:

CBS Video

Jump to bottom

824 comments
1 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:41:22pm

Whatever happened to free will? Why is everything God’s plan?

2 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:41:35pm

I know he’s turned coat and broken every campaign “stays in vegas” type rule - but he was only getting his retalliation in first.

3 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:42:01pm
Former John McCain campaign strategist Steve Schmidt now says Sarah Palin has trouble with the truth.

That’s kind of like saying Tiger Woods has trouble with monogamy.
/too soon?

4 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:42:39pm

In other news, the Pope is Old. Also, Catholic.

5 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:43:14pm

I love these people who have the arrogance to assume they are on “God’s side.” She says (allegedly) that her running was God’s plan. But if you ask her why then she lost, if she was on God’s side and all, she sould probably respond with “It’s all a part of God’s plan.”

6 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:43:27pm

re: #4 windsagio

In other news, the Pope is Old. Also, Catholic.

And so am I.
Old. and Catholic.

7 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:44:26pm

re: #6 reine.de.tout

Are you the Pope?!

8 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:44:35pm

re: #5 Soap_Man

I love these people who have the arrogance to assume they are on “God’s side.” She says (allegedly) that her running was God’s plan. But if you ask her why then she lost, if she was on God’s side and all, she sould probably respond with “It’s all a part of God’s plan.”

And there you have it.
It’s my suspicion that God has more on this mind than who wins the US Presidential election.

9 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:44:37pm

Sarah who?

/16 minutes

10 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:04pm

Schmidt declined to say whether he would again urge McCain to tap Palin but said that she ended up helping more than hurting.
“I believe, had she not been on the ticket, our margin of defeat would’ve been greater than it would’ve been otherwise,” he said.

Well his bottom line sure flies in the face of some of his contentions. The debate itself between Palin and Biden hardly resembled his fears. I said this before, but this just reeks of sour grapes.

11 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:10pm

re: #6 reine.de.tout

Yeah, but you’re lovable and cuddly.

12 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:13pm

seems like everybody has a fixation on Palin…that in itself is not good imo…it would be best to ignore her past…and present….her critics are keeping her in the spotlight

13 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:18pm

What you mean that Palin is an opportunistic liar who isn’t even bright enough to tell convincing lies? No, really?

///

Next you will be telling me she is a religious nut.

14 elizajane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:30pm

Of course it was God’s plan. He was smiting the arrogant and self-righteous, in an Old Testament kind of way. She was just His instrument for inflicting justice on the Republican party. I’m glad that she realizes this.

15 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:39pm

re: #7 windsagio

Are you the Pope?!

No.
Just old, according to my birth certificate. And Catholic.
I feel like I’m 20, though.
What’s up with that, I wonder?

16 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:45:57pm

re: #11 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, but you’re lovable and cuddly.

:-)

17 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:46:12pm

re: #12 albusteve

seems like everybody has a fixation on Palin…that in itself is not good imo…it would be best to ignore her past…and present…her critics are keeping her in the spotlight

She does a pretty good job keeping herself in the spotlight.

18 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:46:49pm

re: #1 recusancy

He plans on free will perhaps?

19 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:47:02pm

re: #14 elizajane

Of course it was God’s plan. He was smiting the arrogant and self-righteous, in an Old Testament kind of way. She was just His instrument for inflicting justice on the Republican party. I’m glad that she realizes this.

I was thinking the same thing actually :)

20 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:47:22pm

re: #12 albusteve

re: #17 Soap_Man

She’s too good a news story, for both sides.

Also she seeks it!

On the other hand, I’m sure alot of people on the reasonable right would love for everyone to ignore her >>

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:47:25pm

re: #17 Soap_Man

She does a pretty good job keeping herself in the spotlight.

Most media whores do.

22 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:48:15pm

re: #17 Soap_Man

She does a pretty good job keeping herself in the spotlight.

She stated her main reason for quitting as governor was to make money before her 15 minutes of fame was up. She is doing just that. Suckers.

23 Stanley Sea  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:48:46pm

re: #2 wozzablog

She really dissed him in her book though. Campaign manager or not, I can’t imagine having to keep quiet about untruths. I bet there’s a whole lot more.

24 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:49:06pm

re: #17 Soap_Man

She does a pretty good job keeping herself in the spotlight.

that’s her business…others don’t have to go on record with dirt…any kind of exposure is good for her and she will only be discredited by a few….not worth it

25 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:49:32pm

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

With some help from the opposition Democrats who have a huge vested interest in the continuation of her in the news, her own gaffes and weaknesses and all the extra crap they can manage to add rightly or wrongly.

26 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:49:40pm

re: #10 Rightwingconspirator

Schmidt declined to say whether he would again urge McCain to tap Palin but said that she ended up helping more than hurting.
“I believe, had she not been on the ticket, our margin of defeat would’ve been greater than it would’ve been otherwise,” he said.

Well his bottom line sure flies in the face of some of his contentions. The debate itself between Palin and Biden hardly resembled his fears. I said this before, but this just reeks of sour grapes.

I agree some of it reeks of sour grapes, but I see it on both sides.

Palin had such little public exposure before the campaign, and she made a really good first impression, and energized certain portions of the Republican Party, leading, I think, to the McCain/Palin ticket getting more votes than it would have had people had more exposure to her before the election. The longer time went on, the more exposure she had - -particularly after the election - the more some folks became really disenchanted with her. I fully admit to being among those.

27 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:50:10pm

I hope that Summer logs in tonight. Her Palin send-ups are a delight to read, and would help cushion the blow of Fox’s stupidity of hiring Palin.

28 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:50:22pm

re: #24 albusteve

not worth it for who?

The TV networks that make money off of her?

The Democrats that get really good political capital from her?

29 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:50:38pm

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Sarah Palin

30 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:51:09pm
31 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:51:12pm

re: #5 Soap_Man

I love these people who have the arrogance to assume they are on “God’s side.” She says (allegedly) that her running was God’s plan. But if you ask her why then she lost, if she was on God’s side and all, she sould probably respond with “It’s all a part of God’s plan.”

Who was it that said “We should not worry if God is on our side, but if we are on God’s side….”?

32 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:51:29pm

re: #28 windsagio

not worth it for who?

The TV networks that make money off of her?

The Democrats that get really good political capital from her?

for conservatives, what few of us are left

33 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:51:52pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

I hope that Summer logs in tonight. Her Palin send-ups are a delight to read, and would help cushion the blow of Fox’s stupidity of hiring Palin.

Fox is pimping Palin along with the Huckster. Fox has a very sizable niche market of hicks, hillbillies, religious fanatics, conspiracy theorists, an dother ignorant types who dig that stuff.

34 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:51:57pm

re: #28 windsagio

not worth it for who?

The TV networks that make money off of her?

The Democrats that get really good political capital from her?

The blogs that get traffic ;)

35 Stanley Sea  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:52:11pm

re: #30 MandyManners

Hey, Schmidt?

Non-plussed:

Adj. 1. nonplussed - filled with bewilderment; “at a loss to understand those remarks”; “puzzled that she left without saying goodbye”
at a loss, nonplused, puzzled
perplexed - full of difficulty or confusion or bewilderment; “perplexed language”; “perplexed state of the world”

nonplussed
adjective taken aback, stunned, confused, embarrassed, puzzled, astonished, stumped, dismayed, baffled, bewildered, astounded, confounded, perplexed, disconcerted, mystified, fazed, dumbfounded, discomfited, flummoxed, discountenanced

I saw your quote on this earlier today & didn’t comment. You think he was talking in code?

36 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:52:35pm
37 gremal  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:53:07pm

Say what you will about Palin, but if she was VP and McCain was the commander in chief, they would not have called Umar Farouk Abdul an “isolated extremist” or focused our country on losing an obscene amount of money on health care reform.

38 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:53:11pm
39 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:53:20pm

re: #26 reine.de.tout
Quite so. I have a hard time taking her (ex politician ex candidate now really just a public speaker) or Steven Schmidt seriously at all.

40 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:53:24pm

re: #24 albusteve

others don’t have to go on record with dirt

He’s trying to defend his career. She was a disaster. He doesn’t want to be blamed for it (even though he shares some blame.) I don’t have a problem with him defending himself. Besides, politics is a dirty business. They both know that.

41 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:53:41pm

re: #31 jamesfirecat

Who was it that said “We should not worry if God is on our side, but if we are on God’s side…”?

Abe

42 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:53:50pm

re: #30 MandyManners

Mandy, am I missing something? That seemed to be the way he was using the word.

43 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:54:03pm

re: #36 MandyManners

I dinged you down because I cannot compare her to a drunken frat boy.

Leave Gus alone, he’s rolling. ;)

44 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:54:08pm

re: #32 albusteve

They have to take care of themselves >>

I personally think she’s symptomatic of the problems on the Right, and am glad that she gets alot of attention. I think they actually need to hit rock bottom before they can fix their problems.

45 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:54:22pm

re: #31 jamesfirecat

Who was it that said “We should not worry if God is on our side, but if we are on God’s side…”?

Lincoln I think. Could be wrong.

46 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:54:25pm
47 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:54:37pm

re: #36 MandyManners

I dinged you down because I cannot compare her to a drunken frat boy.

Yes, because that drunken Frat Boy was John Belushi, an actor who was taken from us several decades too soon, after all at least Bluto could get himself elected Senator of Texas, Sarah couldn’t even make representative!

48 Stanley Sea  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:54:41pm

re: #38 MandyManners

Well he said that she acted nonplussed in the sense (I think) that she was unaffected. But really she was more, uh bewildered?

49 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:54:41pm

Greenman just posted the best little reply to one of his videos on youtube. It fits here very well.

” We don’t say “underclass” here.
It’s “low information voters”. “

50 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:55:01pm

re: #36 MandyManners

I dinged you down because I cannot compare her to a drunken frat boy.

Uh huh. The reason I used that quote is because in the video you can hear that they had to tutor her on WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. She had a hard time understanding why the Koreas are divided. So, I figure she probably thinks the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

51 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:55:23pm

re: #40 Soap_Man

He’s trying to defend his career. She was a disaster. He doesn’t want to be blamed for it (even though he shares some blame.) I don’t have a problem with him defending himself. Besides, politics is a dirty business. They both know that.

I know what he is doing….it’s a pathetic soap opera and now he’s part of it…just another player in the downfall of the GOP

52 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:55:28pm

re: #41 recusancy

Abe

Ahh yes, the first and quite possibly last great Republican president depending on how you measure such things…

53 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:55:34pm
54 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:56:16pm
55 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:57:02pm

re: #51 albusteve

I think its more that you, for your own personal agenda/goals, want her to go away, so you’re using any argument you can to stop discussion about her.


/yes, I am psychic.

56 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:57:38pm

re: #51 albusteve

I know what he is doing…it’s a pathetic soap opera and now he’s part of it…just another player in the downfall of the GOP

We absolutely agree on that one.

57 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:57:52pm

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

Heard a funny one between Jay Leno and Conan OBrian. Jay was suggesting Conan will have time to travel. He then says the weather at Fox is nice this time of year…

58 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:58:24pm

re: #37 gremal

Ahh speculative blind partisanship. Truly an uplifting debate tool!

59 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:59:01pm

re: #5 Soap_Man

I love these people who have the arrogance to assume they are on “God’s side.” She says (allegedly) that her running was God’s plan. But if you ask her why then she lost, if she was on God’s side and all, she sould probably respond with “It’s all a part of God’s plan.”

Winnah! Give that man a candy bar!

60 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:59:14pm

re: #15 reine.de.tout

:shuffle: :grope: Yeah, you feel like your twenty.
/

Joke:

A fifty year old woman goes in for some plastic surgery to get a more youthful look. After forking over quite a bit of cash for the procedure, she’s starting to get nervous about the outcome. Still, when the bandages come off, she is thrilled beyond belief at the results.

On her way home, she wants to see how people respond to her new look, so she stops at a drug store to get a few things, and asks the clerk “How old do I look to you”? The clerk responds “You look about 30, maybe 32”. Absolutely beaming, she says “I’m 50”!

She then stops in at her local grocery store for a few items, and asks the clerk there “How old do I look to you”? The clerk responds “I’d say about 29”. Beaming once again, she declares “I’m 50”, and heads out to catch her bus ride home.

On the bus she spies a very old man, and she can’t help but ask him “How old do I look to you”? The old man replies “Young lady, I am very old, and my eyesight is terrible. I just can’t see well enough to tell you how old you look. But there has always been one sure fire way for me to tell a woman’s age, and that’s by feeling her breasts”.

The woman goes dead quiet, but after several minutes of silence her curiosity gets the better of her, and she allows the old man to examine her. After several long moments of him fondling her breasts, pinching her nipples, and so on, he finally states “Ma’am, you are 50 years old”.

Stunned, she says “That’s exactly right, how could you possibly tell”? He replies “I was in line behind you at the grocery store”.

61 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:59:27pm

re: #39 Rightwingconspirator

Quite so. I have a hard time taking her (ex politician ex candidate now really just a public speaker) or Steven Schmidt seriously at all.

Schmidt is looking to rehabilitate his own image and get employment for 2010 and 2012. Distancing himself from the McCain/Palin mess is a necessity on his part. Attacking Palin is one way to do it, but recognizing that she without her on board, the margin of loss would have been worse is an astute recognition on his part that he might need to court the right wingers down the road (or work for their candidates), as well as a realization that the demographics bear that observation out.

As for Palin, she’s beating to her own drum at this point. Quitting as governor doesn’t help her politically; keeping her name out there with the book and now a tv contract does. What’s her game plan? She’s not telling, but she could be setting herself up as a kingmaker within the right wing.

62 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:59:32pm

When does Cato return? He’s missing such fun with Saracudda!

63 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 6:59:47pm

re: #55 windsagio

I think its more that you, for your own personal agenda/goals, want her to go away, so you’re using any argument you can to stop discussion about her.

/yes, I am psychic.

Palin has nothing to do with my goals and my agenda has nothing to do with politics…a strange comment…face it, Palin has you and everybody else by the balls or she wouldn’t be worth 20,000 comments in the last year

64 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:00:57pm

re: #63 albusteve

eeh? She has me by the balls? Ouch!

But no, it fits my agenda just fine to keep talking about her.

You, on the other hand, admitted yourself that it would be better for you to have us stop talking about her.

65 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:01:53pm

re: #61 lawhawk

I do believe that picking Palin made the loss worse… I also believe that the people running the campaign had no choice but to make that gamble, for the reasons you stated.

66 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:02:30pm

re: #62 Floral Giraffe

When does Cato return? He’s missing such fun with Saracudda!

I’m sure there will be plenty more Sarah for him in the future. She ain’t going anywhere for quite some time.

67 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:02:31pm

re: #37 gremal

Say what you will about Palin, but if she was VP and McCain was the commander in chief, they would not have called Umar Farouk Abdul an “isolated extremist” or focused our country on losing an obscene amount of money on health care reform.

And if my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle.

There’s really no point is such speculation, because we’ll never know if that would truly be the case or not.

68 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:03:19pm

re: #62 Floral Giraffe

When does Cato return? He’s missing such fun with Saracudda!

I had an email from him today; he doesn’t have WiFi access at the moment. Sounds like he’s still having a terrific time, though!

69 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:04:01pm

Don’t Bikini Wax while drunk. Better yet, don’t Bikini Wax while sober, either!

My night began as any other normal weeknight. Come home, fix dinner, play with the kids. I then had the thought that would ring painfully in my mind for the next few hours: ‘Maybe I should pull the waxing kit out of the medicine cabinet.’

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:04:07pm

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

Fox is pimping Palin along with the Huckster. Fox has a very sizable niche market of hicks, hillbillies, religious fanatics, conspiracy theorists, an dother ignorant types who dig that stuff.

Dunno about the hicks and hillbillies. My impression of the target audience is sulky middle-class people who can’t stand not having everything, everything! just the way they like it.

71 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:04:14pm

re: #67 Slumbering Behemoth

And if my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle.

There’s really no point is such speculation, because we’ll never know if that would truly be the case or not.

totally agree.

72 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:04:50pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

Couldn’t have said it better.

73 Claire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:04:53pm

re: #58 windsagio

Ahh speculative blind partisanship ridicule. Truly an uplifting debate tool!

Indeed.

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:05:00pm

re: #37 gremal

Say what you will about Palin, but if she was VP and McCain was the commander in chief, they would not have called Umar Farouk Abdul an “isolated extremist” or focused our country on losing an obscene amount of money on health care reform.

No, I’m sure Palin would have led the national hysterical screaming over the pantybomber. It’s just what would have happened then that worries me.

75 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:05:11pm

re: #64 windsagio

eeh? She has me by the balls? Ouch!

But no, it fits my agenda just fine to keep talking about her.

You, on the other hand, admitted yourself that it would be better for you to have us stop talking about her.

what more can you say about her?….everything has already been said months ago….if you want to gossip and parrot til your undies bunch it’s okay by me…I just sit here and enjoy the occasional really stupid post

76 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:05:16pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

I’m sure there will be plenty more Sarah for him in the future. She ain’t going anywhere for quite some time.

SIGH. I think you’re right. And, she isn’t going to go quietly, if she can cash in.

77 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:05:28pm

re: #37 gremal

Given that the last GOP health plan reform was Medicare part D, what are you talking about?

78 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:06:14pm

re: #61 lawhawk

Well Schmidt is now toxic in my view. Lets speculate he joins another campaign. Now we know he can be trusted to break confidences and trash the people he worked with. Ever go into a job interview with a bad attitude and trash talk about the old boss?

I feel if Palin thinks she can be a kingmaker she severely overestimates her power. If the left was not supporting her visibility via jokes and character attacks she would not be so prominent or helpful, to the left. Between that and her own gaffes its the perfect storm.

79 gremal  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:06:24pm

re: #58 windsagio

Ahh speculative blind partisanship. Truly an uplifting debate tool!

Speculative? Yeah, but it’s not too far out on that limb. Blind partisanship? Nah, I used to be a lefty and I have a very clear view of what Obama and his supporters are about. Debate tool? Nah, I’m just expressing myself. As we all do.

80 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:06:24pm

re: #53 MandyManners

Um, I don’t think you’re right. He was describing her as non-reactive, as having a lack of reaction, being stunned. That’s nonplussed.

81 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:06:40pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

I’m sure there will be plenty more Sarah for him in the future. She ain’t going anywhere for quite some time.

she’s on the rise…a GOP superstar

82 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:07:06pm

re: #67 Slumbering Behemoth

And if my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle.

There’s really no point is such speculation, because we’ll never know if that would truly be the case or not.

Ha! Good one. That’s my feelings on the subject as well. Similarly when lefties would speculate about what Gore would or would not have done in the wake of 9-11. You can’t possibly know, so it usually looks to me like cheap political point-scoring to refer to your favoured parallel universe where a different candidate won and we all got ponies of our own (or something.)

83 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:07:47pm

re: #79 gremal

No, pretty much you don’t like Obama and you like Palin. Sometimes you just have to call a rose a rose.

84 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:08:14pm

re: #81 albusteve

she’s on the rise…a GOP superstar

/well even here people just can’t get enough of her…

85 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:08:48pm

re: #79 gremal

I’m an Obama ‘supporter’, given that I voted for him and I’m glad he’s in office rather than McCain.

Now, what am I ‘all about’?

86 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:09:18pm

re: #63 albusteve

Sarah doesn’t have anyone by the balls. This is all about politics, a subject this blog sometimes focuses on.

87 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:09:22pm

re: #83 windsagio

No, pretty much you don’t like Obama and you like Palin. Sometimes you just have to call a rose a rose.

Well, I’m with him on that first part. I wish Palin ended up someone I could like, but she turned out to be a creationist tool.

88 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:10:03pm

re: #57 Rightwingconspirator

Heard a funny one between Jay Leno and Conan OBrian. Jay was suggesting Conan will have time to travel. He then says the weather at Fox is nice this time of year…

Did he say that? What a dick.

89 gremal  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:10:32pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I’m sure Palin would have led the national hysterical screaming over the pantybomber. It’s just what would have happened then that worries me.

You should be more worried over what Obama is doing—playing blame games with the CIA and still refusing to blame Islamism.

By the way, I live in SF bay area too. Long live Zionism in San Francisco…down with pink ladies! Cheers.

90 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:11:15pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

Oh yeah, not saying you have to like him. I just think the post above reflects an irrational ability to separate the two.

As if he was saying Because I like Palin she would have done a good job, and because I don’t like Obama he did a bad one.

Thats an unacceptable reaction.

91 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:11:31pm

re: #86 Slumbering Behemoth

Sarah doesn’t have anyone by the balls. This is all about politics, a subject this blog sometimes focuses on.

and her politics is the stuff of a soap opera…it’s one in the same

92 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:11:42pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno about the hicks and hillbillies. My impression of the target audience is sulky middle-class people who can’t stand not having everything, everything! just the way they like it.

Your World with Neal Cavuto had Suzanne Sommers as a guest today, commenting on the NYC plan to reduce salt in food. That bimbo doesn’t know a damn thing - she says Table Salt will make my blood pressure go up but Sea Salt will make it go down.

If you follow the advice that True Believer gives out, you will be in the ground. ‘Nuff said!

93 gremal  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:11:44pm

re: #85 Obdicut

I’m an Obama ‘supporter’, given that I voted for him and I’m glad he’s in office rather than McCain.

Now, what am I ‘all about’?

Change we can bereave in.

94 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:12:23pm

re: #89 gremal

combined myopia and sucking up in one post (just ‘cuz its polite to say why you downdinged someone >>)

95 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:12:43pm

re: #93 gremal

Change we can bereave in.

down shift & enjoy the ride…

96 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:13:09pm

Three or four years ago, the AP did a “Paris Hilton blackout,” in which they refused to run any story that had anything to do with her for a week.

Can we get another one of those for the former Gov?

97 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:14:05pm

re: #96 Soap_Man

why would they?

It goes back to my theory. The people that really talk about stopping Palin coverage are mostly concerned about the damage she’s doing to the Republican party.

98 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:14:11pm

re: #91 albusteve

and her politics is the stuff of a soap opera…it’s one in the same

and yet she keeps on coming… (shut up sattv)

99 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:14:13pm

What I think of Palin… This is actually an apt metaphor for her. Her intellect is on this level - as is her execution.

Warning, very NSFW

Youtube Video
100 gremal  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:14:13pm

re: #83 windsagio

No, pretty much you don’t like Obama and you like Palin. Sometimes you just have to call a rose a rose.

I don’t really like either one of them, but one’s the most powerful man in the country and the other is mostly irrelevant.

101 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:14:46pm

re: #96 Soap_Man

Three or four years ago, the AP did a “Paris Hilton blackout,” in which they refused to run any story that had anything to do with her for a week.

Can we get another one of those for the former Gov?

people would suffer withdrawals

102 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:15:10pm

re: #97 windsagio

why would they?

It goes back to my theory. The people that really talk about stopping Palin coverage are mostly concerned about the damage she’s doing to the Republican party.

Where would we be without wishful thinking?

103 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:15:14pm

re: #101 albusteve

people would suffer withdrawals

The “Sarah Shakes” if you will…

104 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:15:30pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno about the hicks and hillbillies. My impression of the target audience is sulky middle-class people who can’t stand not having everything, everything! just the way they like it.

aw, c’mon.
I’m a middle-class hick. Can’t say I sulk, much, though.

105 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:15:44pm

re: #50 Gus 802

… in the video you can hear that they had to tutor her on WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. She had a hard time understanding why the Koreas are divided. …

Kind of amazing, isn’t it? If that claim is true, then The Sarah is even farther out on the limb than C.T.E. has dared suggested.

106 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:15:50pm

re: #102 Soap_Man

hah that was awesome.

107 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:16:02pm

re: #23 Stanley Sea

He’s been leaking and briefing long before her book came out.

I didn’t tense my comment properly.

108 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:16:19pm

re: #77 Obdicut

All we really needed was a proper re -regulation of health care insurers and providers, much like we did to public utilities. None of that has a public option, just the public paying the bills and an escalated level of government regulation. We all got gas, water, electricity. All from private providers. All regulated by gov, and paid by the customers. The is no Obamawater, no Obamalectric company. But we will have Obama care.

What we got is an overreach and exploitation of the situation to expand government powers instead of regulations. No surprise it has opposition even from many Dems.
“Never let a crisis go to waste” Rahm Emmanuel.

109 djughurknot  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:16:31pm

re: #99 LudwigVanQuixote

eeew dude

110 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:16:34pm

re: #100 gremal

Of course.

111 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:16:47pm

re: #98 brookly red

and yet she keeps on coming… (shut up sattv)

bad moon…a run for the presidency would freak me out nearly as much as BO the Accomplished…imagine that race

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:16:47pm

re: #99 LudwigVanQuixote

I am sorry I clicked on that link.

113 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:16:52pm

re: #107 wozzablog

He’s been leaking and briefing long before her book came out.

I didn’t tense my comment properly.

Don’t they make drugs for that now? Or at least some adult underwear?

114 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:17:38pm

re: #101 albusteve

people would suffer withdrawals

Sarah would suffer withdrawals.

115 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:17:51pm
116 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:18:35pm

re: #115 MandyManners

Always with nibbling at the edges… Its generally a bad sign for ones position when you have to quibble grammar.

117 Claire  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:19:03pm

re: #99 LudwigVanQuixote

Seriously disgusting.

118 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:19:11pm

re: #111 albusteve

bad moon…a run for the presidency would freak me out nearly as much as BO the Accomplished…imagine that race

I don’t think she will run especially after the fox deal, but she will stay in the limelight. Shit you can’t even make 100 posts here before someone brings her up…

119 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:19:45pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

How is hicks and hillbillies not a elitist derogatory term in the context of what news they watch?

120 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:19:47pm

re: #114 Slumbering Behemoth

Sarah would suffer withdrawals.

it is symbiotic…such is life for some people

121 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:19:47pm

Devil’s Advocate here:

If this guy were stabbing a liberal in the back, say a liberal who currently has a book sitting at the top of the NY Times Bestseller List, and there was no audio or video to support the back-stabber’s allegations, would “60 Minutes” and the rest of the usual suspects swallow this crap hook, line and sinker?

Right.

122 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:19:54pm
123 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:20:23pm

re: #37 gremal

Say what you will about Palin, but if she was VP and McCain was the commander in chief, they would not have called Umar Farouk Abdul an “isolated extremist” or focused our country on losing an obscene amount of money on health care reform.

Cherry picking one phrase of isolated extremist doesn’t paint the whole picture of that particular speech. He said far more than that as this small excerpt shows:

Third, I’ve directed my national security team to keep up the pressure on those who would attack our country. We do not yet have all the answers about this latest attempt, but those who would slaughter innocent men, women and children must know that the United States will more — do more than simply strengthen our defenses. We will continue to use every element of our national power to disrupt, to dismantle and defeat the violent extremists who threaten us, whether they are from Afghanistan or Pakistan, Yemen or Somalia, or anywhere where they are plotting attacks against the U.S. homeland.

Finally, the American people should remain vigilant, but also be confident. Those plotting against us seek not only to undermine our security, but also the open society and the values that we cherish as Americans. This incident, like several that have preceded it, demonstrates that an alert and courageous citizenry are far more resilient than an isolated extremist.

As a nation, we will do everything in our power to protect our country. As Americans, we will never give in to fear or division. We will be guided by our hopes, our unity, and our deeply held values. That’s who we are as Americans; that’s what our brave men and women in uniform are standing up for as they spend the holidays in harm’s way. And we will continue to do everything that we can to keep America safe in the new year and beyond.

The president is well aware that this extremism is coming directly because of Jihadism. Just because he does not use President Bush’s word of Islamofascism does not mean he is in disagreement. When he says “violent extremists” in Afghanistan or Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia it is clear that he is targeting specific nations and not daydreaming about the situation at hand.

124 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:20:30pm
125 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:21:09pm

re: #124 MandyManners

Proof?

What proof? It was a joke.

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:21:26pm

re: #104 reine.de.tout

aw, c’mon.
I’m a middle-class hick. Can’t say I sulk, much, though.

No, that doesn’t seem your style.

Dunno. Talking socioeconomics in America is hard stuff, but one thing that has annoyed me is how the Palin mini-empire is built on this ‘just plain folks who didn’t have all the advantages’ image. I don’t get what makes her so exceptionally ordinary, if you know what I mean. I see the people at her book signings and whatnot, they don’t exactly look like an underclass to me.

127 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:21:39pm

re: #121 rwmofo

Devil’s Advocate here:

If this guy were stabbing a liberal in the back, say a liberal who currently has a book sitting at the top of the NY Times Bestseller List, and there was no audio or video to support the back-stabber’s allegations, would “60 Minutes” and the rest of the usual suspects swallow this crap hook, line and sinker?

Right.

Depends on the Liberal in question, Sarah Palin has yet to do anything to make most of us trust her intellect, so we’re inclined to believe that she’s an idiot.

Not everything is just because of politics, some of it is personality…

128 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:21:44pm

re: #121 rwmofo

Devil’s Advocate here:

If this guy were stabbing a liberal in the back, say a liberal who currently has a book sitting at the top of the NY Times Bestseller List, and there was no audio or video to support the back-stabber’s allegations, would “60 Minutes” and the rest of the usual suspects swallow this crap hook, line and sinker?

Right.

well we all know the rules :)

129 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:21:45pm

re: #118 brookly red

heh, just to be an ass I checked the earlier threads.

In the Open at least, she got in by post 16 ;)


(Unfortunately didn’t make the 2 before that at all, unless my search messed up)

130 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:21:57pm

re: #117 Claire

Seriously disgusting.

Great.

Now I have to go look.

131 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:22:00pm

re: #121 rwmofo

Devil’s Advocate here:

If this guy were stabbing a liberal in the back, say a liberal who currently has a book sitting at the top of the NY Times Bestseller List, and there was no audio or video to support the back-stabber’s allegations, would “60 Minutes” and the rest of the usual suspects swallow this crap hook, line and sinker?

Right.

If Obama lost and David Axelrod came out and said these sorts of things about the candidate, that would be must see shit.

132 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:22:06pm
133 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:22:17pm

re: #119 Rightwingconspirator

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

How is hicks and hillbillies not a elitist derogatory term in the context of what news they watch?

it’s not…it’s a social slur and he knows it…Ludwig admits to being an elitist and is proud of his education and stature

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:22:29pm

re: #105 freetoken

Kind of amazing, isn’t it? If that claim is true, then The Sarah is even farther out on the limb than C.T.E. has dared suggested.

I think she’s just not very broadly educated, and not very interested in politics and history, and policy and stuff like that. Which is no crime, many people fall into that category. Most of them, though, don’t decide to run for office.

135 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:22:45pm

Wasn’t Palin Schmidt’s choice for VP? As I recall, McCain really wanted Lieberman and everyone sort of expected Lieberman. Then at the last minute they took McCain into the back room. The argument was that Lieberman was a sure loss and that Palin was a game changer.

Who vetted Palin if it wasn’t Schmidt?

136 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:22:48pm

re: #125 Gus 802

YOU CAN”T JOKE ABOUT PALIN!!!!!!!!!!

137 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:22:57pm

re: #130 Racer X

Great.

Now I have to go look.

You’ve seen it, now you can’t unsee it!

(Totally loving the idea of another season of Futurama…)

138 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:23:33pm

re: #137 jamesfirecat

on that thought, is the rumor about them nuking the voice acting true?

Its easier to ask than to try to look it up :)

139 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:23:37pm

re: #137 jamesfirecat

You’ve seen it, now you can’t unsee it!

(Totally loving the idea of another season of Futurama…)

I wish I had not seen it.

140 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:23:41pm

I think Sarah is the new Phylis

141 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:24:09pm

I don’t think Steve Schmidt is helping himself much with these interviews.
Who is going to trust him now?

142 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:24:12pm

re: #132 MandyManners

Oh, hell.

Let’s jsut hange the bitch.

Umm… bit of a jump from having a good laugh at the expense of someone’s foolishness to suggesting we lynch them isn’t it?

143 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:24:31pm

re: #109 djughurknot

re: #112 Slumbering Behemoth

You were warned! ;)

144 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:24:57pm

re: #140 Thanos

I think Sarah is the new Phylis

Schlafly, or Diller?

145 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:25:05pm

re: #135 Olsonist

Who vetted Palin if it wasn’t Schmidt?

The good folks at National Review.

146 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:25:18pm

re: #141 jaunte

I don’t think Steve Schmidt is helping himself much with these interviews.
Who is going to trust him now?

Well… Stupid people should probably not trust him. If he’s saying something untrue don’t you think McCain would come out and say so?

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:25:32pm

re: #135 Olsonist

Wasn’t Palin Schmidt’s choice for VP? As I recall, McCain really wanted Lieberman and everyone sort of expected Lieberman. Then at the last minute they took McCain into the back room. The argument was that Lieberman was a sure loss and that Palin was a game changer.

Who vetted Palin if it wasn’t Schmidt?

Shhhh!

I think they thought she’d be more manageable. Next time, maybe they’ll go with Lieberman.

148 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:25:38pm

re: #141 jaunte

I sometimes think that he’s just pisst and not thinking rightly >

149 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:25:42pm

re: #145 wozzablog

The good folks at National Review.

Kristol

150 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:25:49pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

No, that doesn’t seem your style.

Dunno. Talking socioeconomics in America is hard stuff, but one thing that has annoyed me is how the Palin mini-empire is built on this ‘just plain folks who didn’t have all the advantages’ image. I don’t get what makes her so exceptionally ordinary, if you know what I mean. I see the people at her book signings and whatnot, they don’t exactly look like an underclass to me.

The real underclass doesn’t have the time or disposable income to stand in line at book signings. That’s one reason why we call them the underclass: because we’re standing on top of them.

151 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:25:52pm

re: #141 jaunte

I don’t think Steve Schmidt is helping himself much with these interviews.
Who is going to trust him now?

right…shoulda taken the high road and just shut up…he’s emblematic of the sick GOP…he’s no good guy, just another guy with egg on his face and shit on his hands

152 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:26:04pm

re: #141 jaunte

Schmidt, like Rove or Carville, has a different constituency. He’ll get work.

153 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:26:04pm

re: #146 recusancy

I think he’s telling the truth; now.

154 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:26:12pm

re: #132 MandyManners

Steady now.

155 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:26:41pm

re: #132 MandyManners

Oh, hell.

Let’s jsut hange the bitch.

You betcha!

156 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:27:03pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

No, that doesn’t seem your style.

Dunno. Talking socioeconomics in America is hard stuff, but one thing that has annoyed me is how the Palin mini-empire is built on this ‘just plain folks who didn’t have all the advantages’ image. I don’t get what makes her so exceptionally ordinary, if you know what I mean. I see the people at her book signings and whatnot, they don’t exactly look like an underclass to me.

Not really an underclass - they are uneducated, in the sense that they rarely don’t read or think about or discuss anything serious, don’t keep up with news and opinion, etc.

Your assessment is probably correct in the sense that many are probably not quite as financially successful as they’d like to be.

157 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:28:19pm

re: #151 albusteve

right…shoulda taken the high road and just shut up…he’s emblematic of the sick GOP…he’s no good guy, just another guy with egg on his face and shit on his hands

But if no one is willing to say what’s wrong with the GOP how are they gonna get better?

158 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:28:22pm

re: #149 recusancy

article.nationalreview.com


And the Weekly Standard, natch.

159 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:28:32pm

re: #141 jaunte

Good point, but note that Palin fired the first salvo in her own book. Perhaps he felt that he had to defend his name?

160 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:28:35pm
161 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:28:50pm

re: #115 MandyManners

He was using the word INCORRECTLY.

I don’t think so, Mandy. He was saying she was nonplussed, when she should have had a reaction.

162 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:29:26pm
163 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:29:27pm

re: #150 ryannon

The real underclass doesn’t have the time or disposable income to stand in line at book signings. That’s one reason why we call them the underclass: because we’re standing on top of them.

Damn skippy.

And yet, suddenly I had all these pundits explaining to me about how this woman was so much realer, and less elite, and more genuine, than I, and she was reaching out to the people—the LITTLE people—of the REAL America…

I may get unpissed-off at some point, but it’s not happening yet.
I’m

164 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:29:36pm

re: #156 reine.de.tout

Not really an underclass - they are uneducated, in the sense that they rarely don’t read or think about or discuss anything serious, don’t keep up with news and opinion, etc.

Your assessment is probably correct in the sense that many are probably not quite as financially successful as they’d like to be.

fixed.
(talk about uneducated! LOL).

165 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:29:42pm

May I just say that I have many, many problems with Palin, but her personally believing that God’s role was for her to run for VP is NOT one of them.

C’mon.

166 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:29:43pm

re: #119 Rightwingconspirator

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

How is hicks and hillbillies not a elitist derogatory term in the context of what news they watch?

re: #133 albusteve

it’s not…it’s a social slur and he knows it…Ludwig admits to being an elitist and is proud of his education and stature

Ohhh it most assuredly is an elitist derogatory term. And you are correct, I have little patience for anyone so mentally addled that they think people like Beck or Palin are anything good at all. This is the 21st century, we simply do not have the time to coddle the stupid in the face of the challenges we face. If this were still an agrarian society, it really would not matter if stupid people believed stupid things as much as they do. However, these morons vote.

If they elect someone like Palin or any of the new GOP lineup into office, you can kiss science and sensible policy on technological or scientific issues goodbye.

Now you can call that elitist all you want. I personally don’t want to be part of a National Darwin Award.

167 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:29:46pm

re: #159 freetoken

She fired at him in her book because he had (most likely & alledgeldly) been one of the key unamed “campaign sources” leaking against her long before.

168 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:30:29pm

re: #127 jamesfirecat

Depends on the Liberal in question, Sarah Palin has yet to do anything to make most of us trust her intellect, so we’re inclined to believe that she’s an idiot.

Not everything is just because of politics, some of it is personality…

Good point. I heard that Joe Biden is on the verge of curing cancer.

169 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:31:02pm

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I can’t stand Lieberman but from a pure political strategy point of view, whoever it was that picked Palin was …

right.

She was a game changer. The Reps would have gotten crushed even worse with Lieberman, up and down the ticket. But it was a devils bargain and now the Reps have to pay the price. I can add another metaphor to the mix, but I have a hard to time feeling sorry for Schmidt. Maybe he thought he could control/manage Palin.

170 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:31:20pm

re: #159 freetoken

Good point, but note that Palin fired the first salvo in her own book. Perhaps he felt that he had to defend his name?

I can’t help thinking he would have been perfectly satisfied with his share of the spoils if she had been a winner.

171 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:31:43pm

re: #166 LudwigVanQuixote

Elitism is better than the anti-elitism we saw out of the last 10 years.

I’d really rather have someone smart and educated in charge than someone who just relies on populism and ‘outsider’ status.

172 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:31:44pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn skippy.

And yet, suddenly I had all these pundits explaining to me about how this woman was so much realer, and less elite, and more genuine, than I, and she was reaching out to the people—the LITTLE people—of the REAL America…

I may get unpissed-off at some point, but it’s not happening yet.
I’m

Besides hasn’t the GOP’s view point always been that people who are part of the lower class deserve to be there and shouldn’t get any government hand outs to help them up?

Why are they suddenly glorifying the very people who they simulatneously seem to think are pathetic scum who refuse to make something of themselves?

173 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:32:04pm

re: #152 Olsonist

Hey, I want to apologize for going off at you the other night.
I should have just let it go.

174 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:32:36pm

re: #166 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohhh it most assuredly is an elitist derogatory term. And you are correct, I have little patience for anyone so mentally addled that they think people like Beck or Palin are anything good at all. This is the 21st century, we simply do not have the time to coddle the stupid in the face of the challenges we face. If this were still an agrarian society, it really would not matter if stupid people believed stupid things as much as they do. However, these morons vote.

If they elect someone like Palin or any of the new GOP lineup into office, you can kiss science and sensible policy on technological or scientific issues goodbye.

Now you can call that elitist all you want. I personally don’t want to be part of a National Darwin Award.

nice dodge…you exposed yourself if anyone cares to go back and dig up the posts…it’s all in the archives

175 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:32:39pm

re: #169 Olsonist

Again, I agree they had to try, but do you really think she improved McCain’s results?

176 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:33:03pm

Putting so much faith (and Hope) into a politician - either left or right - is going to always end badly.

177 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:33:15pm

re: #172 jamesfirecat

It’s all very well hauling yourself up by your bootstraps - if you can first afford the boots.

178 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:33:15pm

re: #156 reine.de.tout

Not really an underclass - they are uneducated, in the sense that they rarely don’t read or think about or discuss anything serious, don’t keep up with news and opinion, etc.

Your assessment is probably correct in the sense that many are probably not quite as financially successful as they’d like to be.

Get their ass up off the couch and that just might change.

179 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:33:23pm

re: #171 windsagio

Elitism is better than the anti-elitism we saw out of the last 10 years.

I’d really rather have someone smart and educated in charge than someone who just relies on populism and ‘outsider’ status.

Which is ironic, because the scientists have always been the outsiders.

180 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:34:02pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

No, that doesn’t seem your style.

Dunno. Talking socioeconomics in America is hard stuff, but one thing that has annoyed me is how the Palin mini-empire is built on this ‘just plain folks who didn’t have all the advantages’ image. I don’t get what makes her so exceptionally ordinary, if you know what I mean. I see the people at her book signings and whatnot, they don’t exactly look like an underclass to me.

She’s so darn ordinary that she’s special.

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:34:04pm

re: #169 Olsonist

Well, I can’t stand Lieberman but from a pure political strategy point of view, whoever it was that picked Palin was …

right.

She was a game changer. The Reps would have gotten crushed even worse with Lieberman, up and down the ticket. But it was a devils bargain and now the Reps have to pay the price. I can add another metaphor to the mix, but I have a hard to time feeling sorry for Schmidt. Maybe he thought he could control/manage Palin.

I think he did think he could manage her. I don’t think they understood what an ego and a will they were adding to the mix.

She was, in many ways, a brilliant choice, but cramming the genie back in the bottle is not working.

I predict for her a long and happy career as a pundit, and honestly, stuff like this I just pull out the popcorn for.

182 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:34:06pm

Palin also told Schmidt that being picked as McCain’s running mate was “God’s plan.”

Isn’t it a bit typical of some religious people to believe that most everything is due to “God’s plan”?

183 theheat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:34:09pm

What I find amazing is no one figured out she was a lying, pandering, notsobright, fundie nutjob within five minutes of meeting her. And, even after meeting her, someone still decided she was perfect for the job. I find that positively shocking.

I suppose interviewing people living on the streets off their meds would have been too time consuming?

184 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:34:17pm

re: #168 rwmofo

Good point. I heard that Joe Biden is on the verge of curing cancer.

Speaking personally I don’t think Biden is an idiot like Palin I think that Biden just suffers from having a malfunctioning brain to mouth filter, a condition I have a touch of as well, but that said if there was a book out suggesting that Biden said something even more foolish than his famous “compliment” to Obama, I would believe it even though I’m a liberal…

185 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:34:26pm

re: #174 albusteve

nice dodge…you exposed yourself if anyone cares to go back and dig up the posts…it’s all in the archives

It’s not a dodge Steve at all. I really do not care for stupid people making stupid choices that affect me. I do genuinely dislike them for it.

186 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:34:27pm

re: #169 Olsonist

Well, I can’t stand Lieberman but from a pure political strategy point of view, whoever it was that picked Palin was …

right.

She was a game changer. The Reps would have gotten crushed even worse with Lieberman, up and down the ticket. But it was a devils bargain and now the Reps have to pay the price. I can add another metaphor to the mix, but I have a hard to time feeling sorry for Schmidt. Maybe he thought he could control/manage Palin.

I can’t disagree with any of that

187 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:34:36pm

re: #174 albusteve

So you’re saying elitism is bad? That we shouldn’t put someones education and clear thinking into consideration when choosing who to follow, or who to listen to?

188 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:35:05pm

re: #166 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohhh it most assuredly is an elitist derogatory term. And you are correct, I have little patience for anyone so mentally addled that they think people like Beck or Palin are anything good at all. This is the 21st century, we simply do not have the time to coddle the stupid in the face of the challenges we face. If this were still an agrarian society, it really would not matter if stupid people believed stupid things as much as they do. However, these morons vote.

If they elect someone like Palin or any of the new GOP lineup into office, you can kiss science and sensible policy on technological or scientific issues goodbye.

Now you can call that elitist all you want. I personally don’t want to be part of a National Darwin Award.

Some folks think it’s worth the effort to try to reach out and inform or “raise the consciousness” of those who are uninformed, rather than simply viewing them all as “mentally addled”, and that such efforts are not akin to “coddling the stupid”.

You and friends will ding me down for this, and be my guest, have at it - I see this superior elitism as similar to racism and any other “ism”. Unnecessary, unprovoked, irrational hatred. And wrong.

189 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:35:39pm

re: #177 wozzablog

It’s all very well hauling yourself up by your bootstraps - if you can first afford the boots.

Well if they can afford a first edition hard back version of Sarah’s book…

190 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:35:44pm

re: #179 LudwigVanQuixote

No, they’re the evil establishment! Haven’t you been reading your anti-AGW texts?

191 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:35:51pm

re: #176 Racer X

Putting so much faith (and Hope) into a politician - either left or right - is going to always end badly.

“Trust, but verify” is an excellent motto that can apply to many things.

192 generalsparky  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:36:01pm

re: #184 jamesfirecat

“stand up Chuck!”

193 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:36:05pm

re: #171 windsagio

Elitism is better than the anti-elitism we saw out of the last 10 years.

I’d really rather have someone smart and educated in charge than someone who just relies on populism and ‘outsider’ status.

Quite Concur.

194 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:36:28pm

Biden Criticized For Appearing In Hennessy Ads

195 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:36:32pm

re: #178 SteveC

Get their ass up off the couch and that just might change.

Oh, I think their asses are off the couches, and they probably work very hard. And when work is over, they do nothing more to improve their awareness of the world around them, and end up “stuck” in a rut, wondering why.

196 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:36:34pm

re: #183 theheat

Finding out she was picked for the role over Lieberman by someone looking at a single video interview was a little disturbing.

197 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:36:34pm
198 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:36:48pm

re: #187 windsagio

So you’re saying elitism is bad? That we shouldn’t put someones education and clear thinking into consideration when choosing who to follow, or who to listen to?

no…Ludwig and I know what we’re talking about, you weren’t around

199 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:37:26pm

re: #188 reine.de.tout

Hmm. You’ve bought into a popular populist argument. Rational elitism is a good thing. You can’t change your race, but you can improve your level of knowledge… and that is a good thing! We naturally value the knowledgable and skilled.

200 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:37:34pm

re: #192 generalsparky

“stand up Chuck!”

Huh?

201 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:37:36pm

re: #173 Floral Giraffe

Hey, I want to compliment you for telling us the other night about the cabins on the Laguna Coast. I lived in OC for high school and I’d never heard of them.

202 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:37:48pm

re: #166 LudwigVanQuixote

I would prefer that the elected officials who are making decisions, that affect my life, be above average in education, and common sense. If possible I would like a minimum of narcissism, but that seems to be a requirement to be a politician, these days….

203 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:37:57pm

re: #183 theheat

What I find amazing is no one figured out she was a lying, pandering, notsobright, fundie nutjob within five minutes of meeting her. And, even after meeting her, someone still decided she was perfect for the job. I find that positively shocking.

I suppose interviewing people living on the streets off their meds would have been too time consuming?

I find it more than shocking. I find it infuriating in its cynicism and its sheer carelessness about who they were going to pick to be that close to power. True, they did a shitty job vetting her, but there was no way that they didn’t know generally speaking who they were picking, and so I conclude that they just didn’t give a shit— so long as she brought home those Dobson, fundie, wingnut votes.
Despicable. People who make such careless choices don’t deserve to be in power.

204 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:38:50pm

re: #199 windsagio

Hmm. You’ve bought into a popular populist argument. Rational elitism is a good thing. You can’t change your race, but you can improve your level of knowledge… and that is a good thing! We naturally value the knowledgable and skilled.

Yes. I value the knowledgeable and the skilled. Very much so.

However … I do not have an irrational hatred or fear of those who are not as knowledgeable or skilled as I am.

205 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:38:50pm

re: #197 MandyManners

And Palin, right?

You can’t deny that Obama was the ‘elitist’ candidate, and McCain was the “Joe the Plumber/Hockey Mom” populist candidate.

206 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:38:55pm

re: #175 windsagio

No, McCain was going to lose. But she saved the Reps bacon. I’m liberal Dem, BTW. I’d have luvved to have seen Lieberman on the ticket.

207 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:39:03pm

re: #171 windsagio

Elitism is better than the anti-elitism we saw out of the last 10 years.

I’d really rather have someone smart and educated in charge than someone who just relies on populism and ‘outsider’ status.

Agreed. I’m not sure when elite became a bad word. It means above average, even extraordinary. We should all strive to be elite.

And when did “average” and “ordinary” become such positive attributes? My parents always told me “If you’re average, you haven’t tried hard enough.”

208 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:39:33pm

re: #192 generalsparky

What a great nic!

209 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:39:57pm
210 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:00pm

re: #205 windsagio

And Palin, right?

You can’t deny that Obama was the ‘elitist’ candidate, and McCain was the “Joe the Plumber/Hockey Mom” populist candidate.

No, McCain was the “I’ve been a long standing Senator who has been a true leader and has experience on all issues” candidate.

211 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:02pm

re: #197 MandyManners

That’s why I voted for McCain.

Agreed. McCain would have done well as President. But had he won and then died, we’d have a willfully ignorant fundie as President.

212 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:03pm

re: #171 windsagio

Elitism is better than the anti-elitism we saw out of the last 10 years.

I’d really rather have someone smart and educated in charge than someone who just relies on populism and ‘outsider’ status.

I always thought that elitism was relative. The popular theme in current politics is to cast liberals and academia as elitists. However, the reality is that economic elitism remains the driving force behind politics, society and culture in this country. If one were to plant themselves in the elitist conservative enclaves of those that run the Fortune 500 companies one would not find anything resembling anti-elitism or earthiness — some of those communities are the pinnacle of elitism. The schools are the very same: Harvard, Cornell, Yale, and Princeton. I believe that the anti-elitist rhetoric was merely a propaganda piece made to agitate a GOP electorate or an “us versus them” atmosphere.

213 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:18pm

re: #203 iceweasel

I find it more than shocking. I find it infuriating in its cynicism and its sheer carelessness about who they were going to pick to be that close to power. True, they did a shitty job vetting her, but there was no way that they didn’t know generally speaking who they were picking, and so I conclude that they just didn’t give a shit— so long as she brought home those Dobson, fundie, wingnut votes.
Despicable. People who make such careless choices don’t deserve to be in power.

It was just as bad on the other side- just look at John Edwards- God!
It’s enlightening that such people get so close to the trigger…

214 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:18pm
215 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:30pm

re: #207 Soap_Man

Agreed. I’m not sure when elite became a bad word. It means above average, even extraordinary. We should all strive to be elite.

And when did “average” and “ordinary” become such positive attributes? My parents always told me “If you’re average, you haven’t tried hard enough.”

“elite” and “elitism’ are not bad words; there is not a thing wrong with being above average, extraordinary. Thank goodness we have such people around. And thank goodness not all of them think the rest of us are complete rubes.

216 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:41pm

re: #188 reine.de.tout

I do reach out to anyone who wants to learn the facts.

However one basic fact is that other nations have the sense to want smart folks in charge. Only in America is the line, “I’m just an ignorant hick, just like you! something that gets someone elected.”

Ignorant hicks are not morally bad for beinf ignorant and stupidity is not a crime.

However, stupidity in national leaders gets people killed.

No one would let a hillbilly like Palin do surgery. She would not even get into medical school. Yet, for high office, great masses of stupid folks think that is just fine - where she can do far greater and more lasting damage.

217 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:43pm

re: #188 reine.de.tout

Some folks think it’s worth the effort to try to reach out and inform or “raise the consciousness” of those who are uninformed, rather than simply viewing them all as “mentally addled”, and that such efforts are not akin to “coddling the stupid”.

You and friends will ding me down for this, and be my guest, have at it - I see this superior elitism as similar to racism and any other “ism”. Unnecessary, unprovoked, irrational hatred. And wrong.

And arrogant beyond belief.

218 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:47pm

re: #206 Olsonist

No, McCain was going to lose. But she saved the Reps bacon. I’m liberal Dem, BTW. I’d have luvved to have seen Lieberman on the ticket.

Hey he managed to win Conenticut, and nobody can do political infighting like we Dems, for all we know the business minded democrats might have broken ranks with the liberal ones to flock towards a sane Republican Canidate.

When it comes election time I support the GOP putting its craziest foot forward!

219 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:40:47pm

re: #204 reine.de.tout

Imo your definition is off. Its not irrational hate of the underclass, its valuing (or overvaluing) the educated (and sometimes in a bad way, upper) classes.

Hating people for being uneducated is awful, but I don’t think thats really what the word means.

220 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:41:08pm

re: #196 jaunte

Finding out she was picked for the role over Lieberman by someone looking at a single video interview was a little disturbing.

Yeah, no kidding. But what does this tell us about McCain and his campaign? Was he so confident that his buddy Lieberman would be acceptable to the GOP and the “conservative” base that when the hate came flooding in after the trial balloon was let into the wild that he (McCain) essentially had no “Plan B”?

What does that say about his executive qualities?

221 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:41:14pm

re: #203 iceweasel

I find it more than shocking. I find it infuriating in its cynicism and its sheer carelessness about who they were going to pick to be that close to power. True, they did a shitty job vetting her, but there was no way that they didn’t know generally speaking who they were picking, and so I conclude that they just didn’t give a shit— so long as she brought home those Dobson, fundie, wingnut votes.
Despicable. People who make such careless choices don’t deserve to be in power.

and if they had won?….I shudder at the thought knowing what I know now…at least ‘out of power’ the nut movement has disregarded stealth and exposed themselves for what they are…2010 should be interesting

222 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:41:34pm
223 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:41:36pm

re: #144 freetoken

Schlafly, or Diller?

Maybe she’s a hybrid, but I was thinking Shafly when I commented. You know, the one who’s going to be at CPAC with the Birchers.

224 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:41:48pm
225 generalsparky  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:41:50pm

re: #208 Floral Giraffe

Thanks!

226 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:41:53pm

I like Birds

Youtube Video
227 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:41:55pm

re: #220 freetoken

What does that say about his executive qualities?


“Maverick.”

228 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:42:08pm

re: #196 jaunte

Finding out she was picked for the role over Lieberman by someone looking at a single video interview was a little disturbing.

I call it bullshit.

229 theheat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:42:14pm

re: #203 iceweasel

I think it’s obvious: she’s precisely what they were shopping for. Now they’re just pissing and moaning about buyer’s remorse.

The whole thing from A to Z is sickening; her, them, and everyone involved.

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:42:18pm

re: #196 jaunte

Finding out she was picked for the role over Lieberman by someone looking at a single video interview was a little disturbing.

They were going down. Lieberman was a perfectly good pick, except that McCain was going down. They made one last brilliant crazy move to see if they could pull the election back out of the hat. And they got Palin.

Olsonist is right, she was a damn smart choice under the circumstances, which were that Barack Obama was going to be president of the United States unless the McCain team could manufacture a miracle. What they managed was a smart, smart move. It couldn’t trump history, but it was a real pretty piece of footwork.

231 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:42:32pm

re: #210 TampaKnight

You have to look at the way the election was run, tho’. I agree thats what McCain SHOULD have run on.

Instead he ended up with the platform of “Joe ‘n Sarah”.

232 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:42:45pm

re: #219 windsagio

Imo your definition is off. Its not irrational hate of the underclass, its valuing (or overvaluing) the educated (and sometimes in a bad way, upper) classes.

Hating people for being uneducated is awful, but I don’t think thats really what the word means.

I’m trying to communicate my disgust with LVQ’s total arrogance and his devaluing of anyone who is not his intellectual peer. Which includes me, and frankly, probably many others here.

233 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:42:50pm

re: #228 ryannon

Maybe so. It seems that political operatives are willing to say whatever works in the moment.

234 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:43:02pm

re: #202 Floral Giraffe

I would prefer that the elected officials who are making decisions, that affect my life, be above average in education, and common sense. If possible I would like a minimum of narcissism, but that seems to be a requirement to be a politician, these days…

To even be able to say “I will lead” requires a certain amount of ego. That is unavoidable. Anyone who thinks that any great leader in history, with the possible exception of folks like Moses, is not looking clearly at human nature.

Men and women like Lincoln and Elizabeth I knew that they were better than the competition. That does not bother me. What bothers me is the level of the competitors these days.

235 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:43:03pm

re: #199 windsagio

Hmm. You’ve bought into a popular populist argument. Rational elitism is a good thing. You can’t change your race, but you can improve your level of knowledge… and that is a good thing! We naturally value the knowledgable and skilled.

Nope. In America the core core belief is in the common equality of all people when deciding public policy. Therefore the one vote for each citizen.

The educated and “elites” have their value, but in politics they are hired and fired by the “common” people. Rule by “our betters” was rejected by the Founding Fathers.

236 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:43:24pm

And by the way, I met some people when I was in college who were simply brilliant academics, but couldn’t lead 3 people in painting a room.

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:43:28pm

re: #206 Olsonist

No, McCain was going to lose. But she saved the Reps bacon. I’m liberal Dem, BTW. I’d have luvved to have seen Lieberman on the ticket.

I would have voted for McCain if Lieberman had been on the ticket.

But I wasn’t going to be enough.

238 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:43:31pm

re: #209 MandyManners

Aah, there we go.


re: #222 MandyManners

why not? I think I made a pretty good definition.

239 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:43:34pm

re: #205 windsagio

Obama was the elite candidate but certainly not the elitist candidate. McCain was a substandard student and substandard pilot. He was however an above average POW.

240 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:43:48pm

re: #171 windsagio

Elitism is better than the anti-elitism we saw out of the last 10 years.

I’d really rather have someone smart and educated in charge than someone who just relies on populism and ‘outsider’ status.

I’ll take the B-Student who wants limited government, a strong private sector, the best military in the world and leaving health-care in the private sector with a strong shot of tort reform over the guy who wins on “Jeopardy” but wants to cut military spending, attack the private sector—particularly the oil industry—always feels the solution is through raising taxes on “the rich” and reflexively says “We ought to put the government in charge of this.”

241 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:44:18pm

re: #228 ryannon

I call it bullshit.

She did seem to surface rather quickly.

I have no doubt that various GOP operatives were pulling for her, but that doesn’t mean she was on the shortlist (which apparently only had one name) of the McCain campaign.

242 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:44:20pm

re: #214 MandyManners

Oh, yes.

(After some time googling) Ahh I see, so its sort of like the time Bush complimented the blind guy on how nice his glasses were…

Guess I’m playing the equivelency game upon relefection but I still feel like saying it…

243 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:44:24pm
244 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:44:24pm

re: #210 TampaKnight

No, McCain was the “I’ve been a long standing Senator who has been a true leader and has experience on all issues” candidate.

And then they made him run with Sarah Palin.

245 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:44:30pm

re: #188 reine.de.tout

I think where you’re making a mistake is seeing the distaste of an ‘elitist’ for those who are willfully ignorant as irrational hatred. To my mind, it’s rational fear, and frustration. And comparing it to racism, which has no seat of reason, which has no truth behind it, nothing to really fear, is incredibly distasteful to me.

246 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:44:32pm

re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote

Italy.

247 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:44:48pm

re: #239 Olsonist

Obama was the elite candidate but certainly not the elitist candidate. McCain was a substandard student and substandard pilot. He was however an above average POW.

Not cool to make light of the shit he went through during the war.

248 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:44:56pm

re: #201 Olsonist

That’s very gracious of you.
Just you wait until the El Morro, hmmm, it used to be a trailer park, but I think it’s going to be a campground, opens up. Sleep on the sand!
It’s back under re-construction, and is about 5 miles south of the cabins.
Will be f’awesome when done.
Here’s what it looked like, when the trailers were still there.
beachcalifornia.com

249 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:45:03pm

re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote

I do reach out to anyone who wants to learn the facts.

However one basic fact is that other nations have the sense to want smart folks in charge. Only in America is the line, “I’m just an ignorant hick, just like you! something that gets someone elected.”

Ignorant hicks are not morally bad for beinf ignorant and stupidity is not a crime.

However, stupidity in national leaders gets people killed.

No one would let a hillbilly like Palin do surgery. She would not even get into medical school. Yet, for high office, great masses of stupid folks think that is just fine - where she can do far greater and more lasting damage.

Don’t be so sure, Ludwig. People in rural areas often favor their own for larger office. And Thailand has been beset with protests owing to the collision between rural and urban interests. It can also be seen in Afghanistan and places in Africa. “I’m a hick like you” is not just a seller in America.

250 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:45:04pm

re: #235 Bagua

Nope. In America the core core belief is in the common equality of all people when deciding public policy. Therefore the one vote for each citizen.

The educated and “elites” have their value, but in politics they are hired and fired by the “common” people. Rule by “our betters” was rejected by the Founding Fathers.

Which is why we are a Republic with an electoral college and not a straight democracy? Lol… I think you should read your history before saying such false things.

251 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:45:16pm

re: #235 Bagua

People are legally equal. That being said, my client with schizophrenia and mental retardation has a vote. He’s certainly not a good candidate to run ANYTHING (not even his own life, unfortunately).

We should certainly look at the education, experience, and knowledge of our candidates, along with their positions and promises. The latter have a tendency to be less than real once the campaign is over.

252 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:45:30pm

re: #239 Olsonist

Obama was the elite candidate but certainly not the elitist candidate. McCain was a substandard student and substandard pilot. He was however an above average POW.

how was McCain a substandard pilot?…never heard that one

253 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:45:50pm

re: #247 Soap_Man

Not cool to make light of the shit he went through during the war.

I completely agree— but i didn’t read Olsonist as doing that at all. Perhaps I misread.

254 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:45:51pm

I must get this book.
Can’t wait to see if they caught that quote from Bill Clinton about Sarah Palin…

“Now that Sarah Palin is one woman I could reeeally get behind. Yessirree!!”

255 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:46:24pm

re: #252 albusteve

how was McCain a substandard pilot?…never heard that one

Graduated near the bottom of his class, crashed a few times.

256 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:46:45pm

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

Don’t be so sure, Ludwig. People in rural areas often favor their own for larger office. And Thailand has been beset with protests owing to the collision between rural and urban interests. It can also be seen in Afghanistan and places in Africa. “I’m a hick like you” is not just a seller in America.

I hear your points. Being from the farm belt does NOT make someone stupid or uneducated. There are some really smart farmers out there. The issue is whether or not people automatically reject the educated and intelligent. In America that is a trend from many.

257 generalsparky  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:46:55pm

re: #214 MandyManners

Oh, yes.

My husband and I still go around the house telling each other to “Stand up Chuck!” It is code for you are being stupid ;-)

258 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:47:20pm

re: #188 reine.de.tout
Very well said.
Bigotry is wrong. Indulging in it is the mark of a less intelligent person, despite their educational level. Rural folks are plenty smart enough to vote. I for one do not ever want them disenfranchised. It’s more than aggravating to see them disrespected based on elitist assumptions. See the brilliance of democracy is we all get represented. Elitism attempts to undermine that essential principle.

259 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:48:04pm

re: #240 rwmofo

I personally would rather take someone that knows alot about the issues and convince me he does, than someone who parrots my particular position.

In general, the arguments I’m hearing here are the 200 year old Know-nothing/William Jennings Bryan bullcrap populism. Isn’t it embarassing?

260 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:48:04pm

re: #229 theheat

I think it’s obvious: she’s precisely what they were shopping for. Now they’re just pissing and moaning about buyer’s remorse.

The whole thing from A to Z is sickening; her, them, and everyone involved.

As a mainstream conservative, I don’t think Palin was the problem. I think it was McCain. Just my opinion.

261 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:48:05pm

re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote

I do reach out to anyone who wants to learn the facts.

However one basic fact is that other nations have the sense to want smart folks in charge. Only in America is the line, “I’m just an ignorant hick, just like you! something that gets someone elected.”

Ignorant hicks are not morally bad for beinf ignorant and stupidity is not a crime.

However, stupidity in national leaders gets people killed.

No one would let a hillbilly like Palin do surgery. She would not even get into medical school. Yet, for high office, great masses of stupid folks think that is just fine - where she can do far greater and more lasting damage.

Jimmy.
Carter.

262 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:48:07pm

re: #255 iceweasel

Graduated near the bottom of his class, crashed a few times.

lots of pilots crash…I’d like to see some documentation for such an accusation, something I’ve never really asked before

263 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:48:46pm

re: #232 reine.de.tout

I’m trying to communicate my disgust with LVQ’s total arrogance and his devaluing of anyone who is not his intellectual peer. Which includes me, and frankly, probably many others here.

reine, my dear, there are a good many here who consider LVQ not an intellectual peer, but a pitiable figure.

264 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:49:07pm

re: #245 Obdicut

I think where you’re making a mistake is seeing the distaste of an ‘elitist’ for those who are willfully ignorant as irrational hatred. To my mind, it’s rational fear, and frustration. And comparing it to racism, which has no seat of reason, which has no truth behind it, nothing to really fear, is incredibly distasteful to me.

I think I’ve made no mistake. I agree with you, and have similar distaste for those who are willfully ignorant.

I simply think it’s better to approach them with civility rather than derision. At least they might listen to me, and perhaps I could have an effect.

265 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:49:16pm

re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote

No one would let a hillbilly like Palin do surgery. She would not even get into medical school. Yet, for high office, great masses of stupid folks think that is just fine - where she can do far greater and more lasting damage.

Denton Cooley was known for being fast - He could (and routinely did) perform a triple bypass in just over an hour. But it’s not about being fast, it’s about thinking two steps ahead, in three dimensions, all the time. He was in the middle of a Congenital repair when a power surge blow a fuse box and knocked out all the lights on one side of the operating room. He walked around the table just kept working.

You don’t just need to be fast, you need to be good. And “good” being defined as thinking at a much higher level than most of us could ever be.

266 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:50:10pm

re: #263 Capitalist Tool

reine, my dear, there are a good many here who consider LVQ not an intellectual peer, but a pitiable figure.

I don’t think of him as pitiable, but I do think he needs to express himself better.

267 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:50:29pm

re: #263 Capitalist Tool

I love LVQ personally. He’s playing this wonderful muted whipsong on certain of the more laughable assumptions people have. Its beautiful!

268 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:50:29pm
269 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:51:00pm

re: #252 albusteve

From the Wiki.

He graduated 894 of 899 from his class.

John McCain’s early military career began when he was commissioned an ensign and started two and a half years of training at Pensacola to become a naval aviator.[14] While there, he earned a reputation as a partying man.[7] He completed flight school in 1960, and became a naval pilot of ground-attack aircraft, assigned to A-1 Skyraider squadrons[15] aboard the aircraft carriers USS Intrepid and USS Enterprise[16] in the Caribbean and Mediterranean Seas.[17] McCain began as a sub-par flier[17] who was at times careless and reckless;[18] during the early-to-mid 1960s, the planes he was flying crashed twice and once collided with power lines, but he received no major injuries.[18] His aviation skills improved over time,[17] and he was seen as a good pilot, albeit one who tended to “push the envelope” in his flying.[18]

270 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:51:07pm

re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah that electoral college worked out so well for Al Gore. All the left just rallied behind it. ///
Obama gets to claim a electoral landslide with a 7% margin of victory in the popular vote. Landslide? Hardly.

271 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:51:14pm

re: #262 albusteve

lots of pilots crash…I’d like to see some documentation for such an accusation, something I’ve never really asked before

There was a NYTimes article about it. Here is the FactCheck.

272 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:51:20pm

re: #263 Capitalist Tool

reine, my dear, there are a good many here who consider LVQ not an intellectual peer, but a pitiable figure.

And there seem to be more than a few who agree with his assessment that there are some people not worth being civil to or about.

273 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:51:26pm

Ok.
I’ll quit poking Ludwig with a wet mop.
He’s behaving, so should I.

274 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:51:43pm

re: #235 Bagua

Except that’s not true at all. First of all, many of our founding fathers thought the landed, educated citizenry should be the only ones with the power to vote.

SEcond of all, the founding fathers felt that women should not have the right to vote (Except John Adams, I believe), because they were intellectual, spiritual, and ethical inferiors to men.

Third, only six states allowed blacks to vote.

Fourth, voting rights were still, in most states, tied to land ownership until the 1830’s.

275 captdiggs  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:51:54pm

re: #210 TampaKnight

No, McCain was the “I’ve been a long standing Senator who has been a true leader and has experience on all issues” candidate.

His mistake was Palin. Granted, she really doesn’t much more foot-in-mouth than Biden, but she was a mistake.
Had he picked Lieberman or Tom Ridge I think he would have won.

276 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:52:27pm

re: #239 Olsonist

Obama was the elite candidate but certainly not the elitist candidate. McCain was a substandard student and substandard pilot. He was however an above average POW.

How do you rate Pows?

Number of escape attempts?

Limited amount of aid given to the enemy?

Number of enemy resources necessary to keep them prisoner?

Because I think John McCain might not have been Stalagluft 3 material, though I suppose landing with two broken legs and a broken arm does sort of screw you over…

277 generalsparky  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:52:50pm

re: #269 Olsonist

Has President Obama ever released ANY of his college transcripts? What about SAT and LSAT scores?

278 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:53:02pm

I’m out for the evening!
See y’all tomorrow.

279 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:53:10pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

I don’t think of him as pitiable, but I do think he needs to express himself better.

Ditto that. But seriously, Ludwig, some of your comments make me wince.

280 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:53:20pm

my uncle crashed his P-51 and two F-86s in Korea…he also won the DFC…calling McCain a substandard pilot is derogatory bullshit without some proof…the man risked his life and at least deserves that…why don’t you all come clean and show me where he was substandard

281 brookly red  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:53:39pm

re: #268 MandyManners

Let’s bleed the living fuck out of rich people in Europe.

European countries are increasingly pegging speeding fines to income as a way to punish wealthy scofflaws who would otherwise ignore tickets.

Advocates say a $290,000 (euro203,180.83) speeding ticket slapped on a millionaire Ferrari driver in Switzerland was a fair and well-deserved example of the trend.

Germany, France, Austria and the Nordic countries also issue punishments based on a person’s wealth. In Germany the maximum fine can be as much as $16 million compared to only $1 million in Switzerland. Only Finland regularly hands out similarly hefty fine to speeding drivers, with the current record believed to be a euro170,000 (then about $190,000) ticket in 2004.

The Swiss court appeared to set a world record when it levied the fine in November on a man identified in the Swiss media only as “Roland S.” Judges in the eastern canton of St. Gallen described him as a “traffic thug” in their verdict, which only recently came to light.

“As far as we’re concerned this is very good,” Sabine Jurisch, a road safety campaigner with the Swiss group Road Cross.

She said rich drivers were lightly punished until Swiss voters approved a 2007 penal law overhaul that let judges hand down fines based on personal income and wealth for moderate misdemeanors including excessive speeding and drunk driving. Before, they had to assign relatively small fixed penalties or — rarely — a few days in prison.

SNIP

ha ha ha so when he moves to New Jersey then what?

282 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:53:44pm

re: #252 albusteve

how was McCain a substandard pilot?…never heard that one

Here you go

Comedy Central Video
283 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:54:09pm

re: #277 generalsparky

Has President Obama ever released ANY of his college transcripts? What about SAT and LSAT scores?

Has any prez done that? (Not being snarky. But I don’t remember hearing anything about W’s SAT scores.)

284 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:54:20pm

re: #278 reine.de.tout

Sleep well.

285 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:54:34pm

Speaking of “elitists” and academics, today the Orange County Register - the largest SoCal newspaper that normally caters to the right-wing, went out of its way and actually published a meaningful article on AGW, specifically a detailed answer by a climate scientist to a question about AGW:

Climate question? A UCI scientist answers

Shall we look at the comments?


Long Lance says:
January 11, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Can we possibly trust anything that comes out of the mouth of an academic - whose funding relies on parroting the official line of “man is causing global warming, the dissenters are wrong, the debate is over and Algore is God”?
Radical environmentalism is the last refuge of Marxist-Leninist socialism.
—-
truth says:
January 11, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Modern geologists and geophysicists accept that the age of the Earth is around 4.54 billion years old
Your looking at such a small snapshot of time that it wouldn’t even be recognizable on a time line the length of a football field.
Hard to see natural earth climatic cycles when you only look at 10k years worth of data.
Global Warming is a magic act for taxation
—-
LA comstock says:
January 11, 2010 at 3:03 pm
How do you know what “balanced” is since the scientific data is only a small portion of the vast amount of real history? Why does the scientific community keep on trying to make CO2 a “bad” problem. It seems that you do not know or you would not take several paragraphs to explain, what may be speculation. Is this a theory or are you trying to make it a fact with statistics?
I think that this is an unproven theory, just as evolution is, and cannot be proven.
Can it be proven that the imbalance is in fact “bad”?
—-
[emphases added]
[and two more comments that raise questions about science, the answers of which are all over the internet and readily available]

So there you have it:
- you can’t trust academics;
- it’s just liberals wanting your money;
- and golly, if an answer actually takes a couple of paragraphs to explain a subject, well, that is just too much.

Behold, The American public, in its intellectual glory.

286 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:54:40pm

This thread need MORE COWBELL!

287 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:54:41pm

re: #267 windsagio

I love LVQ personally. He’s playing this wonderful muted whipsong on certain of the more laughable assumptions people have. Its beautiful!

then again you have no clue as to his history…willy nilly whipsong!

288 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:54:42pm

re: #269 Olsonist

From the Wiki.

He graduated 894 of 899 from his class.

John McCain’s early military career began when he was commissioned an ensign and started two and a half years of training at Pensacola to become a naval aviator.[14] While there, he earned a reputation as a partying man.[7] He completed flight school in 1960, and became a naval pilot of ground-attack aircraft, assigned to A-1 Skyraider squadrons[15] aboard the aircraft carriers USS Intrepid and USS Enterprise[16] in the Caribbean and Mediterranean Seas.[17] McCain began as a sub-par flier[17] who was at times careless and reckless;[18] during the early-to-mid 1960s, the planes he was flying crashed twice and once collided with power lines, but he received no major injuries.[18] His aviation skills improved over time,[17] and he was seen as a good pilot, albeit one who tended to “push the envelope” in his flying.[18]

Still, to even competently fly an A-4 demands a level of skill and intelligence well beyond most people. John McCain has the brains to be an effective leader.

289 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:55:19pm

re: #259 windsagio

I personally would rather take someone that knows alot about the issues and convince me he does, than someone who parrots my particular position.

In general, the arguments I’m hearing here are the 200 year old Know-nothing/William Jennings Bryan bullcrap populism. Isn’t it embarassing?

You’ve willfully distorted what I said - which seems to be your response more often than not.

290 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:55:26pm

re: #287 albusteve

you have no idea about how long I”ve been reading this site :p


Don’t make assumptions, and don’t make appeals to seniority.

Both are retarded.

291 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:55:34pm

List of Obama’s major accomplishments as president so far:


.

.

.

292 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:55:35pm

re: #282 jamesfirecat

Here you go

[Link: www.thedailyshow.com…]

Jon Stewart can go pound sand up his ass.

293 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:55:36pm

re: #280 albusteve

McCain also won the DFC.

294 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:55:39pm

I wonder how many recipients of medals of honor, purple hearts, silver stars, officers, colonels, etc. were considered “substandard” students or trainees.

And oh nevermind the fact that merely flying a fighter aircraft into combat while performing combat maneuvers is something that the majority of people could never do.

Yes….what an idiot!

295 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:56:22pm

re: #285 freetoken

That’s Mark Landsbaum most likely. Wacko.

296 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:56:26pm
297 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:56:29pm

re: #269 Olsonist

From the Wiki.

He graduated 894 of 899 from his class.

John McCain’s early military career began when he was commissioned an ensign and started two and a half years of training at Pensacola to become a naval aviator.[14] While there, he earned a reputation as a partying man.[7] He completed flight school in 1960, and became a naval pilot of ground-attack aircraft, assigned to A-1 Skyraider squadrons[15] aboard the aircraft carriers USS Intrepid and USS Enterprise[16] in the Caribbean and Mediterranean Seas.[17] McCain began as a sub-par flier[17] who was at times careless and reckless;[18] during the early-to-mid 1960s, the planes he was flying crashed twice and once collided with power lines, but he received no major injuries.[18] His aviation skills improved over time,[17] and he was seen as a good pilot, albeit one who tended to “push the envelope” in his flying.[18]

wiki?…you must be kidding

298 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:56:38pm

re: #280 albusteve

my uncle crashed his P-51 and two F-86s in Korea…he also won the DFC…calling McCain a substandard pilot is derogatory bullshit without some proof…the man risked his life and at least deserves that…why don’t you all come clean and show me where he was substandard

It’s documented. You’ve been given the proof, you just don’t like it.

He was near the bottom of his class and wasn’t a great pilot, at first, though he did improve.
Acknowledging these facts, as McCain as done himself, doesn’t detract from his service to the country, or from his exemplary behaviour as a POW resisting torture.

299 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:56:46pm

re: #288 Dark_Falcon

Still, to even competently fly an A-4 demands a level of skill and intelligence well beyond most people. John McCain has the brains to be an effective leader.

Umm… don’t you think its a stretch to go from being good with machines is the same thing as being good with people?

300 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:57:05pm

re: #291 Racer X

List of Obama’s major accomplishments as president so far:

.

.

.

1) Beer Summit!

301 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:57:08pm

re: #272 reine.de.tout

And there seem to be more than a few who agree with his assessment that there are some people not worth being civil to or about.

There are definitely some people not worth being civil towards. I do think that includes the willfully, with a strong emphasis on ‘willfully’ ignorant. I am not talking about the concerned housewife trying to do the best for her children who’s best friends have told her that autism is caused by vaccines, and so uses the best judgement available to her to decide not to vaccinate. She, I feel like we failed somehow, failed to educate her, failed to reach her.

However, people who have a hatred for scientists, people who have a hatred from those who are more learned than them, more curious than them, more anything than them, they I do have a hard time treating with respect or civility of any sort. If someone is calling for scientists to be fired, for example, scientists who are doing good work, because of some trumped up charges of impropriety— as with the email nontroversy— it’s hard for me not to hate that person. They’re trying to destroy a person’s life, his career, and to set back the work of science. It’s hard to just hate what they’re trying to do, without hating them. Though hate, to me, really is the wrong word— it’s really fear.

302 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:57:34pm

re: #291 Racer X

List of Obama’s major accomplishments as president so far:

.

.

.

He has the first White House entirely powered by unicorn farts!

/

303 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:57:38pm

re: #272 reine.de.tout

And there seem to be more than a few who agree with his assessment that there are some people not worth being civil to or about.


Such behavior is hugely detrimental to this site, and while yet unrealized by said provocateurs, an even greater betrayal of themselves.

304 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:57:51pm

re: #247 Soap_Man

Not cool to make light of the shit he went through during the war.

Few alive today, have served their country, as John McCain has.
For this, if nothing else, he deserves our respect.
Forever.
He earned it the hard way.
/rant off.

305 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:58:23pm

re: #285 freetoken

Behold, The American public, in its intellectual glory.

Kind of a broad brush you got there. You wanna see real stupid? I mean real stupid? Pull the comments from any Youtube post.

306 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:58:42pm

re: #289 rwmofo

Not distorting at all. Thats exactly what you said.

You said that having someone who took all your positions was more important than someone who had alot of knowledge but disagreed with you.


That’s an awfully egotistical position to take.

307 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:58:47pm

re: #295 Olsonist

That’s Mark Landsbaum most likely. Wacko.

Who’s Landsbaum? The article is under the column of Pat Brennan, and the scientist from UCI interviewed is Michael Prather.

308 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:58:59pm

re: #299 jamesfirecat

Umm… don’t you think its a stretch to go from being good with machines is the same thing as being good with people?

It depends on the person. John McCain is in fact good with people. You don’t become a captain in the United States Navy if you aren’t.

309 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:59:01pm

re: #280 albusteve

my uncle crashed his P-51 and two F-86s in Korea…he also won the DFC…calling McCain a substandard pilot is derogatory bullshit without some proof…the man risked his life and at least deserves that…why don’t you all come clean and show me where he was substandard

How about this for just a start

articles.latimes.com

310 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:59:11pm

re: #290 windsagio

you have no idea about how long I”ve been reading this site :p

Don’t make assumptions, and don’t make appeals to seniority.

Both are retarded.

if you’ve read LGF much at all, then you’d know that using the word retarded in any context is highly frowned upon….if you know someones background and in this case identify with his vile posts then that’s all I need to know about you

311 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:59:30pm

re: #297 albusteve

Oh, you can do better than that. Try!

There’s this guy named Charles. Maybe you’ve heard of him. He just quoted the Wikipedia on the front page.

312 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 7:59:42pm

re: #270 Rightwingconspirator

Yeah that electoral college worked out so well for Al Gore. All the left just rallied behind it. ///
Obama gets to claim a electoral landslide with a 7% margin of victory in the popular vote. Landslide? Hardly.

Landslide.

313 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:00:37pm

re: #275 captdiggs

Not likely. The country was going to vote Democrat - the economy was going against the GOP, 8 years of GOP in the WH, and McCain didn’t do nearly enough to separate himself from Bush, and Obama was a fresh face that was out-mavericky the maverick, and he was bringing the hope and change in a way that McCain could only dream of. McCain was running against history - and the history of how election cycles work. Ridge might have helped, but wouldn’t have closed the deal. Lieberman wouldn’t have helped.

314 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:00:41pm

re: #294 TampaKnight

I wonder how many recipients of medals of honor, purple hearts, silver stars, officers, colonels, etc. were considered “substandard” students or trainees.

And oh nevermind the fact that merely flying a fighter aircraft into combat while performing combat maneuvers is something that the majority of people could never do.

Yes…what an idiot!

General George Custer graduated last at West Point, yet his lone cavalry brigade stood off three Confederate cavalry brigades at Gettysburg.

315 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:00:57pm

re: #298 iceweasel

It’s documented. You’ve been given the proof, you just don’t like it.

He was near the bottom of his class and wasn’t a great pilot, at first, though he did improve.
Acknowledging these facts, as McCain as done himself, doesn’t detract from his service to the country, or from his exemplary behaviour as a POW resisting torture.

I promise you if he was a substandard pilot he would not be flying off and landing on aircraft carriers…you are stretching it

316 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:00:59pm

re: #310 albusteve

Heh I’m allowed. I have relatives, and its my life’s work.

Also its irrelevant. You’re still just trying to pull rank.

317 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:01:12pm

Please see the link I posted in #271. This is from Factcheck.org.

We have had numerous questions about this widely circulated claim. Some say McCain “lost” five planes, others that he “crashed” five planes. All offer this alleged “fact” as evidence that he was a bad pilot. All are incorrect.

I trust Factcheck much more than Wiki. I’m on albusteve’s side on this one.

318 celticdragon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:01:15pm

re: #275 captdiggs

His mistake was Palin. Granted, she really doesn’t much more foot-in-mouth than Biden, but she was a mistake.
Had he picked Lieberman or Tom Ridge I think he would have won.

No. There would have been a meltdown on the convention floor, because the Catholic conservatives (and other theocon allies) were poised to stage a revolt in the delegations led by Katherine Jean Lopez from the National review and also Jean Kirkpatrick. Both Lieberman and Tom Ridge are pro choice, so the anti abortion activists were ready to sink the convention.

319 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:01:26pm

re: #305 Racer X

Kind of a broad brush you got there. You wanna see real stupid? I mean real stupid? Pull the comments from any Youtube post.

You’re kind of making my point for me… Youtube comments (of which not all are from the US) are from the bottom of the barrel… they make the OCR commenters look intelligent… and that is a bad thing.

320 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:01:37pm

re: #304 Floral Giraffe

Few alive today, have served their country, as John McCain has.
For this, if nothing else, he deserves our respect.
Forever.
He earned it the hard way.
/rant off.

Quite Concur!

321 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:01:39pm

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

General George Custer graduated last at West Point, yet his lone cavalry brigade stood off three Confederate cavalry brigades at Gettysburg.

Patton nearly failed out of West Point due to dyslexia.

322 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:01:47pm

re: #281 brookly red

Then they seize all his assets still in Switzerland, ha-ha.

You can’t take it (all) with you.

323 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:02:03pm

re: #307 freetoken

Sorry, got it wrong. I used to read the OC Register when I lived there and I still read it online from time to time. I noticed that Mark Landsbaum one of their editorial writers was a completely bonkers GW denialist. I just expected it was him but they have a stable full of wackos.

324 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:02:17pm

re: #269 Olsonist
And thousands failed to get that far. “Tended to push the envelope” practically defines military aviation.

re: #282 jamesfirecat
Jon Stewart does not need to be right he just needs to be funny. Oh, anyone look up his military service record? It follows next-


.

325 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:02:21pm

This board could use an enema.

326 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:03:04pm

re: #325 TampaKnight

That’s kind of rude, dude. Why would you say such a thing?

327 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:03:04pm

re: #323 Olsonist

Well yes, the editorial board are raving anti-science types and they have attracted a customer base of similar sentiments.

328 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:03:06pm

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

General George Custer graduated last at West Point, yet his lone cavalry brigade stood off three Confederate cavalry brigades at Gettysburg.

he was considered wreckless and a danger to his own command too…he got by til his ego caught up with him in Montana

329 captdiggs  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:03:08pm

re: #239 Olsonist

Obama was the elite candidate but certainly not the elitist candidate. McCain was a substandard student and substandard pilot. He was however an above average POW.

You can try to denigrate Mccain all you want

“Military decorations include the Silver Star, Bronze Star with Valor Device , Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. “

I don’t care what his ranking was at the Academy.

The proof of the man is in those decorations and the fact that he could not only survive 5 years as a POW but come back to have the career he has had.

330 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:03:15pm

re: #275 captdiggs

Ifhe’d picked Lieberman the only votes he would have got would have been from centrists/independents.

The base would have fractured though.

331 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:03:55pm

re: #319 freetoken

You’re kind of making my point for me… Youtube comments (of which not all are from the US) are from the bottom of the barrel… they make the OCR commenters look intelligent… and that is a bad thing.

Agreed. Many Youtube comments are from outside of the U.S. - and they certainly make American internet posters look like Mensa members.

332 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:04:04pm

re: #330 wozzablog

The base would have fractured though.

Looking back, in the big picture that might have been a good thing.

333 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:04:04pm

Didn’t Jimmy Carter have an IQ of 176?

334 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:04:10pm

re: #325 TampaKnight

I’d much rather have a beer.

335 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:04:12pm

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

General George Custer graduated last at West Point, yet his lone cavalry brigade stood off three Confederate cavalry brigades at Gettysburg.

“Custer was a pussy.”- Sgt. Maj. Basil Plumley

336 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:04:37pm

re: #333 jaunte

Did it help?!

337 celticdragon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:04:44pm

re: #315 albusteve

I promise you if he was a substandard pilot he would not be flying off and landing on aircraft carriers…you are stretching it

His dad was a famous admiral. That carries weight no matter how much of an unserious party boy you are…and there are stories about McCain and parties. Even after he was released, he is said to have requested a scholastic training assignment in Brazil so he could “get some ass” (he was married at the time) instead of opting for serious stations like western Europe or Japan.

338 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:04:53pm

re: #326 Obdicut

That’s kind of rude, dude. Why would you say such a thing?

*Joker reference.

339 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:04:58pm

re: #336 Rightwingconspirator

Not with wildlife management.

340 captdiggs  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:05:05pm

re: #313 lawhawk

Not likely. The country was going to vote Democrat - the economy was going against the GOP, 8 years of GOP in the WH, and McCain didn’t do nearly enough to separate himself from Bush, and Obama was a fresh face that was out-mavericky the maverick, and he was bringing the hope and change in a way that McCain could only dream of. McCain was running against history - and the history of how election cycles work. Ridge might have helped, but wouldn’t have closed the deal. Lieberman wouldn’t have helped.

maybe..it’s all speculation.
But McCain was ahead in the polls until Palin began doing her interviews.

341 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:05:54pm

re: #335 Capitalist Tool

“Custer was a pussy.”- Sgt. Maj. Basil Plumley

And Plumley would know. His conduct at the La Drang Valley was nothing short of epic.

342 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:06:08pm

re: #337 celticdragon

His dad was a famous admiral. That carries weight no matter how much of an unserious party boy you are…and there are stories about McCain and parties. Even after he was released, he is said to have requested a scholastic training assignment in Brazil so he could “get some ass” (he was married at the time) instead of opting for serious stations like western Europe or Japan.

Heh. He could have gotten plenty of ass in the White House. Ask Bill.

343 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:06:15pm

re: #324 Rightwingconspirator

And thousands failed to get that far. “Tended to push the envelope” practically defines military aviation.

re: #282 jamesfirecat
Jon Stewart does not need to be right he just needs to be funny. Oh, anyone look up his military service record? It follows next-

.

I’ll give you that, it looked like McCain was only responsible for one crash, the one in Corpus Christi.

344 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:06:29pm

re: #340 captdiggs

maybe..it’s all speculation.
But McCain was ahead in the polls until Palin began doing her interviews.

He was ahead (or close, I can’t recall) when the economy collapsed. I think that had more to do with it than Palin. (Although she certainly didn’t help.)

345 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:06:32pm

re: #306 windsagio

Not distorting at all. Thats exactly what you said.

You said that having someone who took all your positions was more important than someone who had alot of knowledge but disagreed with you.

That’s an awfully egotistical position to take.

I said this:

I’ll take the B-Student who wants limited government, a strong private sector, the best military in the world and leaving health-care in the private sector with a strong shot of tort reform over the guy who wins on “Jeopardy” but wants to cut military spending, attack the private sector—particularly the oil industry—always feels the solution is through raising taxes on “the rich” and reflexively says “We ought to put the government in charge of this.”

You twisted the above into this:

In general, the arguments I’m hearing here are the 200 year old Know-nothing/William Jennings Bryan bullcrap populism.

Look up “distortion” in the dictionary. One of the definitions will likely say “See windsagio for additional examples.”

346 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:06:41pm

re: #340 captdiggs

maybe..it’s all speculation.
But McCain was ahead in the polls until Palin began doing her interviews.

She failed quite badly in those, and once that happened the bloom was off the rose.

347 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:06:54pm

Its always an amazing assumption that being in the military or being a POW automatically makes you morally superior.

We can thank them for their service, and sympathize with their pain, but idolizing them is silly.


PS: Being a POW only helped McCains political career (or even made it possible).

348 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:06:56pm
349 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:07:01pm

re: #340 captdiggs

maybe..it’s all speculation.
But McCain was ahead in the polls until Palin began doing her interviews.

Are you certain about that? I thought he was way behind, and only got close immediately after he picked Palin.

350 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:07:01pm

re: #329 captdiggs

You can try to denigrate Mccain all you want

“Military decorations include the Silver Star, Bronze Star with Valor Device , Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. “

I don’t care what his ranking was at the Academy.

The proof of the man is in those decorations and the fact that he could not only survive 5 years as a POW but come back to have the career he has had.

Okay but lets all sit down for a moment and ask, who ever said that being a good solider makes you a good politician/leader of civilians?

351 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:07:03pm

re: #341 Dark_Falcon

And Plumley would know. His conduct at the La Drang Valley was nothing short of epic.

Shakespeare would have immortalized him, to be sure.

352 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:07:22pm

re: #329 captdiggs

You can try to denigrate Mccain all you want

“Military decorations include the Silver Star, Bronze Star with Valor Device , Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. “

I don’t care what his ranking was at the Academy.

The proof of the man is in those decorations and the fact that he could not only survive 5 years as a POW but come back to have the career he has had.

no marginal let alone ‘substandard’ pilot can even get near an aircraft carrier…this whole notion is total bullshit based, so far on some wiki entry…where the hell is the common sense here?

353 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:07:25pm

re: #298 iceweasel
Bottom of a class of naval aviators is top of any other kind of combat flying. Please. As much as we might not like a guy for President over politics, let’s not disrespect very difficult combat service.

354 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:07:27pm

re: #325 TampaKnight

Excuse you? That’s in very bad taste, IMHO.

355 captdiggs  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:07:40pm

re: #344 Soap_Man

He was ahead (or close, I can’t recall) when the economy collapsed. I think that had more to do with it than Palin. (Although she certainly didn’t help.)

Can’t disagree with that.

356 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:07:53pm

re: #348 MandyManners

NEW YORK — Mark McGwire finally came clean, admitting he used steroids when he broke baseball’s home run record in 1998, but he also said he didn’t need performance-enhancing drugs to hit the long ball.

[Link: sports.espn.go.com…]

I’m shocked!! Shocked I say!!! *shaking my fist in the air*

357 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:08:05pm

re: #337 celticdragon

His dad was a famous admiral. That carries weight no matter how much of an unserious party boy you are…and there are stories about McCain and parties. Even after he was released, he is said to have requested a scholastic training assignment in Brazil so he could “get some ass” (he was married at the time) instead of opting for serious stations like western Europe or Japan.

what of it?…that has nothing to do with it

358 palomino  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:08:07pm

A multi-year deal with Fox News? Not exactly a platform to launch a credible run for the presidency.

Someday the public will figure this out, and then move on to the next bright shiny object.

359 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:08:08pm

re: #354 Floral Giraffe

Excuse you? That’s in very bad taste, IMHO.

It’s a joke. Mostly aimed at some of the rather ridiculous arguing going on.

360 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:08:10pm

re: #325 TampaKnight

Dude! I don’t even want to know what kind of pr0n collection you have.

361 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:08:11pm

re: #349 Racer X

Ignore that - I misread your post.

362 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:08:13pm

re: #333 jaunte

You get to crash several planes but the Navy frowns on melting submarines.

363 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:08:40pm

re: #362 Olsonist

Very pricy.

364 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:08:49pm

re: #337 celticdragon

His dad was a famous admiral. That carries weight no matter how much of an unserious party boy you are…and there are stories about McCain and parties. Even after he was released, he is said to have requested a scholastic training assignment in Brazil so he could “get some ass” (he was married at the time) instead of opting for serious stations like western Europe or Japan.

Yes, he was also offered early release from the POW camp. Which he turned down.

365 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:08:55pm

re: #345 rwmofo

If you look, there were 2 parts of that post

the first part (which you didn’t quote) was a refutation of what you said.

The second part was a general response to what I’m seeing on the board tonight. I don’t abate an inch of it in general, but it also wasn’t specifically directed at your post.

I just spam enough that I didn’t think it deserved a second entry :)

366 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:09:04pm

re: #315 albusteve

I promise you if he was a substandard pilot he would not be flying off and landing on aircraft carriers…you are stretching it

I informed you he had crashed several times and graduated near the bottom of his class— in response to a question from YOU wanting to know why people criticised his pilot record.

I also made the point that he improved as a pilot.

You are the one ‘stretching it’ here by attempting to turn this into some attack on me. I guess the message here for everyone is “Don’t answer questions from albusteve, even when he asks you a direct question, and for god’s sake don’t provide him with links.”

367 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:09:13pm

re: #274 Obdicut

Except that’s not true at all. First of all, many of our founding fathers thought the landed, educated citizenry should be the only ones with the power to vote.

SEcond of all, the founding fathers felt that women should not have the right to vote (Except John Adams, I believe), because they were intellectual, spiritual, and ethical inferiors to men.

Third, only six states allowed blacks to vote.

Fourth, voting rights were still, in most states, tied to land ownership until the 1830’s.

Bullshit. The founding principal was rule by the people and not by elites. That certain groups were not included in this basic right and that there was an evolutionary process does not make this “not true at all.”

368 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:09:18pm

I’d like to go on record as saying that criticizing John McCain’s naval flight record is bullshit.

369 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:09:24pm

re: #294 TampaKnight

Thank you!

370 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:09:27pm

re: #356 Soap_Man

I’m shocked!! Shocked I say!!! *shaking my fist in the air*

Indeed. This is almost as bad as finding gambling in Rick’s casino!

371 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:09:46pm

Stewart’s tearing it up tonight.

372 ryannon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:09:57pm

re: #350 jamesfirecat

Okay but lets all sit down for a moment and ask, who ever said that being a good solider makes you a good politician/leader of civilians?

Certainly not General Eisenhower.

373 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:10:31pm

re: #347 windsagio

Its always an amazing assumption that being in the military or being a POW automatically makes you morally superior.

We can thank them for their service, and sympathize with their pain, but idolizing them is silly.

PS: Being a POW only helped McCains political career (or even made it possible).

who here is making that assumption?…or is this just a off the cuff remark?

374 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:10:32pm

re: #368 Gus 802

Hows this, its irrelevant until someone brings up his flight record as a good thing!

375 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:10:40pm

re: #364 Floral Giraffe

Yes, he was also offered early release from the POW camp. Which he turned down.

No one here thinks he lacks a strong sense of honor.

376 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:10:44pm

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. This is almost as bad as finding gambling in Rick’s casino!

*sigh* Round up the usual suspects.

377 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:10:47pm

re: #371 recusancy

Stewart’s tearing it up tonight.

Stewart always makes funny points, but then he goes overboard with his partisanship and ruins what would have been funny.

378 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:10:50pm

re: #359 TampaKnight

Well, thanks for explaining it to me!

379 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:10:55pm

re: #353 Rightwingconspirator

Bottom of a class of naval aviators is top of any other kind of combat flying. Please. As much as we might not like a guy for President over politics, let’s not disrespect very difficult combat service.

A downding for the utterly false claim that I have disrespected his combat service.

380 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:11:54pm

re: #371 recusancy

Stewart’s tearing it up tonight.

Damn, I’m watching the Mythbusters two part Special have to catch him on the series of tubes come morning…

381 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:12:05pm

re: #373 albusteve

Mainly the latter, but I think the general hanging on the McCain’s military record instead of on his record as a Politician (which is actually relevant to him being President) is troubling at best.

I respect the military, but the fetishization of the military gives me the willies.

382 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:12:13pm

re: #318 celticdragon

No. There would have been a meltdown on the convention floor, because the Catholic conservatives (and other theocon allies) were poised to stage a revolt in the delegations led by Katherine Jean Lopez from the National review and also Jean Kirkpatrick. Both Lieberman and Tom Ridge are pro choice, so the anti abortion activists were ready to sink the convention.

ummmm…. Jean Kirkpatrick died in 2006.

It wasn’t the northeast paleo crowd that forced Palin, it was the dobson/norquist crowd.

383 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:12:30pm

re: #368 Gus 802

I’d like to go on record as saying that criticizing John McCain’s naval flight record is bullshit.

I didn’t give a shit about it then, and I care even less now, if possible.

384 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:13:02pm

re: #367 Bagua

Bullshit. The founding principal was rule by the people and not by elites. That certain groups were not included in this basic right and that there was an evolutionary process does not make this “not true at all.”

That’s so weird, man. How the hell is restricting the voting rights to certain groups not restricting voting to the elites?

Can you explain that logic?

385 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:13:11pm

re: #348 MandyManners

NEW YORK — Mark McGwire finally came clean, admitting he used steroids when he broke baseball’s home run record in 1998, but he also said he didn’t need performance-enhancing drugs to hit the long ball.

[Link: sports.espn.go.com…]

I’m a big baseball fan - still playing softball at 53. My opinion is that this was cheating. The reason is because HRs that cleared the fence by 15’ when he was on steroids would have stayed in the park without them. Aaron and Mays weighed about 185 lbs and didn’t have this advantage.

386 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:13:31pm

re: #301 Obdicut
In your example of the nontroversy, some of the scientists involved in the flap could be said to fit within your parameters.

387 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:13:32pm

re: #374 windsagio

Hows this, its irrelevant until someone brings up his flight record as a good thing!

John McCain had a fine flight record. As to it being a qualifier for becoming the president, that’s not a sole reason, no.

388 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:14:03pm

re: #347 windsagio

I make no morally superior claims. It’s just not right to distort his military record. As per factcheck above…

389 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:14:16pm

re: #366 iceweasel

I informed you he had crashed several times and graduated near the bottom of his class— in response to a question from YOU wanting to know why people criticised his pilot record.

I also made the point that he improved as a pilot.

You are the one ‘stretching it’ here by attempting to turn this into some attack on me. I guess the message here for everyone is “Don’t answer questions from albusteve, even when he asks you a direct question, and for god’s sake don’t provide him with links.”

no I don’t take you personally at all…I refute you facts…wiki is a poor source therefore you have not really proved your point about him being substandard…NO substandard pilot can fly off an aircraft carrier, only the very best pilots are allowed that training

390 palomino  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:14:52pm

re: #261 Racer X

Jimmy.
Carter.

Yeah, except that Jimmy Carter was a graduate of the US Naval Academy, whose curriculum is known for being a tad more rigorous than the Idaho College of Sports Broadcasting. (And I’m pretty sure Carter knew what the Bush Doctrine was before 2008.)

391 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:15:03pm

re: #383 iceweasel

I didn’t give a shit about it then, and I care even less now, if possible.

You know what’s odd. Or maybe it’s not so odd. During the campaign, there were some wingnuts using his flight record to criticize him. These were the same people claiming that he was a “communist spy.”

392 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:15:06pm

re: #372 ryannon

Certainly not General Eisenhower.

I’m not saying military service is a bad way to get into the white house, it gets people to know your name all across the country and its a lot easier to win a battle than pass a bill.

Just look at how many of our presidents served in the armed forces at some point, just off the top of my head…

George Washington, Grant, JFK, “W” (If you count national guard) Teddy

I’m just saying that military leadership and civilian leadership requires two different skill sets and not everyone has both. Make sense?

393 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:15:13pm

re: #388 Rightwingconspirator

See my 381. I don’t want to say you are. It certainly comes up that way sometimes tho’

394 captdiggs  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:15:14pm

re: #347 windsagio

Its always an amazing assumption that being in the military or being a POW automatically makes you morally superior.

We can thank them for their service, and sympathize with their pain, but idolizing them is silly.

PS: Being a POW only helped McCains political career (or even made it possible).

I think idolizing someone because they make good speeches is silly.

395 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:15:26pm

re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote

Which is why we are a Republic with an electoral college and not a straight democracy? Lol… I think you should read your history before saying such false things.

False things? Typical elitist arrogance.

396 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:16:23pm

re: #389 albusteve

no I don’t take you personally at all…I refute you facts…wiki is a poor source therefore you have not really proved your point about him being substandard…NO substandard pilot can fly off an aircraft carrier, only the very best pilots are allowed that training

You know what they say about the Air Force/Navy; There are 50 guys on the ground for every one guy they let fly the plane.

Alright, bedtime. Stay safe everyone.

397 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:16:39pm

re: #389 albusteve

Only the very best students are allowed into flight school. Unless your daddy can pull strings.

398 Summer Seale  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:16:47pm

Hi Facebook fans! It’s Sarah here!

You know, I read all the magazines and books and stuff, and so I just got done watching that 30 Minutes thing they did about me on MSNBC, and they just got everything wrong, didn’t they?

You betcha!

Now, I don’t really think that I should have to correct everyone else when I already corrected them over a year ago during the election, but it looks like these liberal Democrat guys like Steve Schtick who were on the other team just won’t stop making stuff up about me! I mean, did he even really get to know me? Wasn’t he on the Obiden campaign or something?

I guess it’s not that important. It’s also not that important that people think I didn’t know the differences of some things they say were important, and really weren’t! I mean, does it really matter if I can remember where North Korea is in the Middle East? Does it matter that I couldn’t remember how many TV sets Iraq makes and sends to our country every year? Osama Hussein sure did attack us on 9/11 and everyone knows it - they didn’t have to teach me that. And who cares about when World War III was fought? That’s so last century and quite unimportant.

No, what is important is that being a hockey mom from Alass-ka, I was fully qualified to lead our nation into the twentieth century.

Now, I know that all the other news channels are really jealous today because I chose Fox News over them, and they’re probably going to be running that Katie Gibson interview and the one with the other guy they all think that I messed up on. I think it was on CNN or something, but I’m not sure. But does that matter? No it doesn’t, because as Steve said that I already said: It’s all part of God’s plan.

And it is! That’s why you’re all voting for me, isn’t it? Because, you know, God’s plan is so much more important than anything else and I’m perfectly qualified to be the enabler of it. Just ask any mom with lots of kids who ran a small town in a snowy place! You know, I betcha Obiden doesn’t have to remember where all the mitts are for his kids before he sends them to school on a cold day, but I do! And does that Steve guy know how to ration your heating logs when a storm front comes in? I don’t think so.

That sort of energy experience is vital for a President to have in the twentieth century, and I’m that girl! That’s right, moms, you know what I mean. Because when it comes time to staring down Emir Putin from Saudi Arabia because he wants to sell us more steel and put good Americans out of work in the steel mills, that’s the kinda knowhow that’ll make the difference at that table! I should know!

And when it comes time for whether or not we allow Obiden Care to let terrorists into our hospitals while we Americans are lined up in death camps in front of panels which choose who lives or dies, that’s the kinda of experience that won’t let America go Socialist on you!

It’s true I haven’t traveled much in the world, but that’s what Air Force One is for, right? And what I need to know about is America, not the rest of the world. Not France or Iran. It’s just so important that I know other things, like what the evils of Communism look like. Remember, I stared at those evil things going on from my porch while looking at Communist Russia for so many years.

What is really the most important thing though, is knowing how to cheer on your team. That’s what a President is! And who better qualified than me to be doing that? Everyone knows it!

So thank you for your support and God Bless you all.

Sarah Palin.

399 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:16:50pm

re: #394 captdiggs

I think idolizing someone because they make good speeches is silly.

HOPE!
CHANGE!
etc

400 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:16:53pm

re: #394 captdiggs

Well you’re putting some ideas into my head.

Giving a good speech is certainly a useful skill for a president to have tho’!

401 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:17:16pm

re: #395 Bagua

If you were actually making a funny let me know >>

Otherwise, yowza!

402 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:17:34pm

re: #377 TampaKnight

Stewart always makes funny points, but then he goes overboard with his partisanship and ruins what would have been funny.

Well its hard to find someone who is interested enough in politics to do something like he does and yet doesn’t have an agenda to pitch. Like I’ve said before, nobody gets into politics to be a fiery moderate.

I HAVE NO OPINIONS AND FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT IT!

403 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:17:35pm

re: #389 albusteve

no I don’t take you personally at all…I refute you facts…


You refute nothing, least of all the charge that you’re attempting to pick a fight with me and continuing to claim I called him a substandard pilot. I did not.

You’ve been given an la times article. Read the factcheck link you were given for the quick rundown on the real story and the way it was distorted in various media.

Now just piss off and talk to someone else.

404 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:17:52pm

re: #394 captdiggs

I think idolizing someone because they make good speeches is silly.

Oh snap!

405 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:18:04pm
406 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:18:29pm

re: #384 Obdicut

That’s so weird, man. How the hell is restricting the voting rights to certain groups not restricting voting to the elites?

Can you explain that logic?

What is “so weird man” is your suggestion that because the vote was not immediately granted to Blacks and Woman that our Founding Fathers wanted the country to be ruled by elites. That is absurd.

407 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:18:43pm

re: #405 MandyManners

YAY FOR MEANINGLESS JINGOIST POSTS!

Thank you for enlightening the debate!

408 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:19:11pm

re: #397 Olsonist

Only the very best students are allowed into flight school. Unless your daddy can pull strings.

yup, you can even say that about the presidency nowdays…such times we live in…ahahaha!

409 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:19:26pm

re: #398 Summer
Would have read better if you’d included at least six winks.

410 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:19:32pm

re: #406 Bagua

What is “so weird man” is your suggestion that because the vote was not immediately granted to Blacks and Woman that our Founding Fathers wanted the country to be ruled by elites. That is absurd.

Well, no, it just suggests that they had a different definition of ‘elite’ than the one in common use in England at the time. Perhaps a broader one.

411 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:19:57pm

re: #398 Summer

Hello, Summer! Glad to see you here giving Sarah Palin a beatdown. I hope Charles posts this one too!

412 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:20:06pm

re: #406 Bagua

and what about people that don’t own land?

413 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:20:22pm

re: #407 windsagio

Go piss up a rope.

414 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:20:38pm

re: #407 windsagio

See that rope? Go piss up it.

415 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:20:58pm

re: #408 albusteve

That’s right. Try to change the subject. The fact is that John McCain got a ‘legacy’ appointment, graduated at the very bottom of his class and still got into flight school.

Not impressed.

416 Summer Seale  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:21:09pm

I still got the flu but two Sarah stories in a day? I had to try to rise to the occasion. =)

(Am feeling much better tho)

417 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:21:10pm

re: #412 windsagio

and what about people that don’t own land?

I owe my soul to the Company Store. Does that count for anything?

418 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:21:13pm

re: #403 iceweasel

You refute nothing, least of all the charge that you’re attempting to pick a fight with me and continuing to claim I called him a substandard pilot. I did not.

You’ve been given an la times article. Read the factcheck link you were given for the quick rundown on the real story and the way it was distorted in various media.

Now just piss off and talk to someone else.

you always try this tack…it never works…you think too much of yourself and in this case, you are wrong….be nice when people try to point that out for you

419 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:21:33pm

re: #410 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, no, it just suggests that they had a different definition of ‘elite’ than the one in common use in England at the time. Perhaps a broader one.

In Europe, the “elites” were the hereditary nobility.

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:22:06pm

re: #405 MandyManners

THE FLAG STILL STANDS FOR FRFEDOM.

Mandy, I KNOW I’m drunk, but isn’t that the second time you’ve posted “God Bless the USA” this evening? I still haven’t played it even once, because like I said, I’m drunk, and I know I’ll start crying, but…eh…

WHY IS EVERYONE SO GODDAMN KEYED UP THIS EVENING?

421 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:22:08pm

re: #410 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, no, it just suggests that they had a different definition of ‘elite’ than the one in common use in England at the time. Perhaps a broader one.

I think we all agree that is was wrong of them to consider Blacks and Women as less than equal at the time and that this was slow in being corrected.

422 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:22:18pm

re: #413 Racer X
re: #414 Dark_Falcon


Good one guys! I’ve never heard that!

no seriously. Posts like that do nothing except attempt to gain ‘points’. Its like “LOOK AT ME I’M SO PATRIOTIC!”

Playing for popularity in the place of actual discussion is just sad. Just like losing an argument and turning to a big “FUCK YOU” or “Piss up a Rope” is sad.

423 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:22:27pm

re: #391 Gus 802

You know what’s odd. Or maybe it’s not so odd. During the campaign, there were some wingnuts using his flight record to criticize him. These were the same people claiming that he was a “communist spy.”

Did they think he was some sort of Manchurian Candidate, who had been brainwashed?
There were probably extreme left nuts who said the exact same thing.

Gawd, I’m so tired of the useless crap our braindead media spend time on.

424 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:22:27pm

re: #417 SteveC

I owe my soul to the Company Store. Does that count for anything?

St. Peter can call you, but you can’t go…

425 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:22:41pm
426 captdiggs  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:22:51pm

re: #397 Olsonist

Only the very best students are allowed into flight school. Unless your daddy can pull strings.

The Navy won’t assign a mediocre pilot to carrier duty no matter who their daddy is.
Carrier flight duty is the most rigorous and dangerous there is and the lives of the entire crew can depend on those pilots’ skill.

This unseemly criticism of Mccain from those who have no idea what that service is about is leftover partisan crap from the election.

427 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:22:59pm

re: #417 SteveC

Unfortunately no. Thats them owning you.


+ for awesome reference tho :)

428 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:23:05pm

re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist

Mandy, I KNOW I’m drunk, but isn’t that the second time you’ve posted “God Bless the USA” this evening? I still haven’t played it even once, because like I said, I’m drunk, and I know I’ll start crying, but…eh…

WHY IS EVERYONE SO GODDAMN KEYED UP THIS EVENING?

Isn’t it a school night? BTW… I was meaning to ask this in reply to a post a while back… but where you a PUMA?

429 baier  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:23:22pm

O’Biden? Oh Brother…

430 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:23:28pm

re: #415 Olsonist

That’s right. Try to change the subject. The fact is that John McCain got a ‘legacy’ appointment, graduated at the very bottom of his class and still got into flight school.

Not impressed.

the subject is whatever someone makes it for themselves…don’t respond if you don’t like it

431 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:23:31pm

re: #422 windsagio

You might want to quit while you can.
You already are looking like a 1st class asshole.

432 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:23:50pm

re: #424 Capitalist Tool

St. Peter can call you, but you can’t go…

I didn’t think so…. :(

433 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:23:54pm

re: #406 Bagua

The landed gentry were the elites, and they were pretty much the only people with the franchise………….

The founding fathers said that all men were created equal - but not all were equal enough to vote.


Of the people, by the people & for the people was 1860’s talk…….. not the founding fathers.

434 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:24:01pm

re: #407 windsagio

YAY FOR MEANINGLESS JINGOIST POSTS!

Thank you for enlightening the debate!

Just be grateful we’re not getting the Bible verse spam posts and religious songs. That’s phase two. Next time we have an anti-religious right thread we’ll have that to look forward to.

435 Mich-again  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:24:05pm

Airport Security Fail

I really like that site. Teh Stupid, it burns.

436 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:24:31pm

re: #419 Alouette

In Europe, the “elites” were the hereditary nobility.

OK. So? The fact that any white man with money could now aspire to such status doesn’t change the fact that there was a clear belief in early America that suffrage should be limited to a limited, privileged, social class.

We got bettah. But it was, you know, a drawn-out process.

437 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:24:59pm
438 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:25:10pm

Freedom of Choice!

Youtube Video
439 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:25:40pm

re: #422 windsagio

Sorry, but when liberals downding patriotic song post and call them “jingoistic”, then those liberals are walking on the fighting side of me, to borrow from Merle Haggard.

440 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:25:47pm

re: #431 Capitalist Tool

You might want to quit while you can.
You already are looking like a 1st class asshole.

to some it’s not about back and forth discourse…it’s all about winning an argument…nice bunch of people eh?

441 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:26:01pm

re: #412 windsagio

and what about people that don’t own land?

I believe that inequality was eliminated before long.

442 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:26:01pm

re: #434 iceweasel

Oh no. I already got that.

In a music thread I once put in a great Duet Version of the NIN song Hurt and got the bible verses and ‘Amazing grace’ back.

Its utter manipulative crap.

443 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:26:14pm

re: #425 MandyManners

Intersting that you dinged-down this post.

I just gave you another.
The sentiment isn’t what’s being downdinged; your mindless jingoistic spamming is.

444 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:26:20pm

re: #406 Bagua

Why is it absurd?

My contention is that many of the founding fathers— especially Madison— felt that the landed gentry were the best guides of the nation. The elite, as it were.

I have no idea why you’re calling historical fact absurd.

445 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:26:22pm

re: #417 SteveC

I owe my soul to the Company Store. Does that count for anything?

Only if you picked up your shovel and went to the mine.

446 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:26:24pm

re: #441 Bagua

but the founding fathers put it in… implying they were elitist :p

447 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:26:31pm

re: #393 windsagio

No problem. You will see me stand up for those who serve as defenders of the rest of us, or even themselves. Police, military, etc. Fetish? Nah. Just real respect.

I reserve my fetishes for endeavors more… uh, pleasant and personal.

448 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:26:35pm

re: #423 iceweasel

Did they think he was some sort of Manchurian Candidate, who had been brainwashed?
There were probably extreme left nuts who said the exact same thing.

Gawd, I’m so tired of the useless crap our braindead media spend time on.

I don’t remember if went as far as seeing him as a Manchurian Candidate. There is one notorious enemy of McCain’s. I forgot his name but he’s really nuts. Was arrested once for attempting to assault on of McCain’s aids. There’s this POW/MIA group contingent that hates the man for some of the POW conspiracies while McCain was in the Hanoi Hilton. They argue that his efforts to normalize relationships with Vietnam led to the abandonment of MIAs that they claimed were still under captivity. Don’t forget, many still consider McCain a RINO and even a liberal.

449 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:26:39pm

re: #441 Bagua

I believe that inequality was eliminated before long.

Before long? Like reeeaaaalllyyyy long.

450 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:27:08pm

re: #435 Mich-again

Airport Security Fail

I really like that site. Teh Stupid, it burns.

Remember that that photo can also be captioned “Your Government at work”. That’s the scary part.

451 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:27:26pm

re: #443 iceweasel

I just gave you another.
The sentiment isn’t what’s being downdinged; your mindless jingoistic spamming is.

And you can also go piss up a rope.

452 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:27:35pm

re: #407 windsagio

YAY FOR MEANINGLESS JINGOIST POSTS!

Thank you for enlightening the debate!

No, no - we need more patriotic songs! And they should all be Lee Greenwood! And they should be repeated at regular intervals throughout the thread!

Got a problem with that, commie?/

453 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:27:42pm

re: #439 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but when liberals downding patriotic song post and call them “jingoistic”, then those liberals are walking on the fighting side of me, to borrow from Merle Haggard.

DF, don’t bother apologizing for saying this man.

454 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:27:44pm

re: #445 Spare O’Lake

Only if you picked up your shovel and went to the mine.

And load 15 tons of number nine coal….

455 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:27:55pm

re: #449 recusancy

Meh, it didn’t take that long to deal with the land ownership inequity. Forty years for most change to occur.

Of course, that’s one-fifth of our history.

456 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:28:09pm

re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist

{{{SFZ}}}
Drink a LOT of water before you go to bed.
Hangovers are caused by dehydration.

457 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:28:17pm

It’s getting harder and harder to find a dry rope around here.

458 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:28:26pm

re: #442 windsagio

Oh no. I already got that.

In a music thread I once put in a great Duet Version of the NIN song Hurt and got the bible verses and ‘Amazing grace’ back.

Its utter manipulative crap.

I love that NIN song!

Yeah, it’s crap. Part of the point of it is to get downdinged, preferably by a new and liberal poster, and then declare a witchhunt. “So and so downdinged God Bless America! GET HIM!”

It’s mindless, manipulative crap.

459 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:28:43pm

King/Palin Interview gets ugly

460 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:28:56pm

re: #428 recusancy

Isn’t it a school night? BTW… I was meaning to ask this in reply to a post a while back… but where you a PUMA?

Yes, but it’s 8:25 where I am.

I was not a PUMA. I could have been, I was a staunch Hillary booster, and I was mad as hell when Obama took the primary. I sort of played with the idea of voting for McCain, but Palin creeped me out too much. Finally I checked the box for Obama, after giving some thought to writing in for Hillary.

I do know a couple of people who didn’t vote for president at all for basically the same reasons. No one who actually voted McCain.

461 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:29:06pm

re: #439 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but when liberals downding patriotic song post and call them “jingoistic”, then those liberals are walking on the fighting side of me, to borrow from Merle Haggard.

Makes me all teary just thinkin’ about Muskogee.

462 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:29:12pm

re: #443 iceweasel

I just gave you another.
The sentiment isn’t what’s being downdinged; your mindless jingoistic spamming is.

you can be such a judgemental asshole…what the fuck do you care what Mandy posts?…or anybody else for that matter?….your ego is out of control again

463 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:29:30pm

re: #451 Capitalist Tool

And you can also go piss up a rope.

Can it be a red, white and blue rope? Just to annoy you?

464 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:29:40pm

re: #452 Jimmah

I SURRENDER!

Youtube Video
465 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:29:58pm

re: #423 iceweasel

Did they think he was some sort of Manchurian Candidate, who had been brainwashed?
There were probably extreme left nuts who said the exact same thing.

Gawd, I’m so tired of the useless crap our braindead media spend time on.

No, wait, they did…

John McCain: The Manchurian Candidate

John McCain By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
December 1992 Issue

Those following the proceedings during the past year of the Senate Select Committee on POW and MIA Affairs have been mystified by the rabid actions of the one man on the committee who should be grateful that for the nearly three decades there have been activists in America who have refused to let die the issue of the fate of Americans lost and missing in Southeast Asia from the Vietnam War…

Ted Sampley is as crazy as they come.

466 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:30:01pm

re: #439 Dark_Falcon

I loves me some Merle Haggard.

Youtube Video
467 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:30:22pm

re: #460 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but it’s 8:25 where I am.

I was not a PUMA. I could have been…

Not a cougar?

468 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:30:37pm

Johnny Cash as Elvis

469 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:30:41pm

re: #462 albusteve

you can be such a judgemental asshole…what the fuck do you care what iceweasel posts?…or anybody else for that matter?…your ego is out of control again

Pot, kettle.

470 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:31:12pm

feel the swelling pride……

Youtube Video
471 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:31:51pm

re: #455 Obdicut

Meh, it didn’t take that long to deal with the land ownership inequity. Forty years for most change to occur.

Of course, that’s one-fifth of our history.

I’m talking about re: #460 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but it’s 8:25 where I am.

I was not a PUMA. I could have been, I was a staunch Hillary booster, and I was mad as hell when Obama took the primary. I sort of played with the idea of voting for McCain, but Palin creeped me out too much. Finally I checked the box for Obama, after giving some thought to writing in for Hillary.

I do know a couple of people who didn’t vote for president at all for basically the same reasons. No one who actually voted McCain.

Has your opinion and/or your friends opinions become more or less enthusiastic about Obama since then?

472 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:32:10pm

re: #470 wozzablog

feel the swelling pride…


[Video]

You mean, like every morning standing up to greet me?

473 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:32:15pm

re: #456 Floral Giraffe

{{{SFZ}}}
Drink a LOT of water before you go to bed.
Hangovers are caused by dehydration.

Thanks, will do. Perhaps drunk was an overstatement, I’m only about a sheet to the wind. Can still spell.

Really, everyone seems very worked up. Is it just me?

474 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:32:16pm

re: #433 wozzablog

The landed gentry were the elites, and they were pretty much the only people with the franchise…

The founding fathers said that all men were created equal - but not all were equal enough to vote.

Of the people, by the people & for the people was 1860’s talk… not the founding fathers.

Its just semantics to go on and on about the meaning of the word “elite.” Not allowing children to vote is a sort of elitism as is not allowing fish to vote.

The obvious point being the very essence of the American revolution and resulting freedoms and rights were very much a rejection of rule by aristocratic elites.

475 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:32:18pm

re: #463 iceweasel

You don’t have to worry about staining - because those colours don’t run…………

476 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:32:23pm

re: #457 jaunte

It’s getting harder and harder to find a dry rope around here.

I HOPE ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PISSING ON ROPES ARE HAPPY NOW!

477 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:32:41pm

When opposing cultures collide beautiful things can result, other times things get ugly. Such is our existence.

Youtube Video
478 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:33:00pm

re: #445 Spare O’Lake

Only if you picked up your shovel and went to the mine.

Down here in my part of the South it was “go to the Cotton Mill.” They had Company Stores also.

479 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:33:06pm

re: #476 iceweasel

UP ropes, UP

480 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:33:16pm

re: #469 iceweasel

Pot, kettle.

drama queen….yawn

481 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:33:21pm

re: #467 Capitalist Tool

Not a cougar?

How old do you have to be to be a cougar? Besides, I’m married.

482 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:33:59pm

re: #481 SanFranciscoZionist

That’s a bonus, isn’t it?

483 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:34:07pm

re: #460 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but it’s 8:25 where I am.

I was not a PUMA. I could have been, I was a staunch Hillary booster, and I was mad as hell when Obama took the primary. I sort of played with the idea of voting for McCain, but Palin creeped me out too much. Finally I checked the box for Obama, after giving some thought to writing in for Hillary.

I do know a couple of people who didn’t vote for president at all for basically the same reasons. No one who actually voted McCain.

I still remember the day during the primary when the MSM sold Mrs Clinton out on the “snipers shooting at her on the tarmac” crap. I totally didn’t see that coming.

484 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:34:13pm

re: #471 recusancy

PIMF… This was only supposed to be a reply to SFZ

485 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:34:32pm

re: #474 Bagua

Um. There is a difference between allowing a fish to vote in 1806 and not allowing a black man to vote in 1806……….

After the revolution the landed, white & male power structure continued.

486 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:34:42pm

re: #464 windsagio

I SURRENDER!


[Video]

Just remember…Frfedom isn’t Frfe.

Youtube Video
487 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:34:43pm

re: #473 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s Monday, everyone hates it.
At least, that’s my reading.
LOVE the spellcheck!
;)

488 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:34:49pm

re: #457 jaunte

It’s getting harder and harder to find a dry rope around here.

re: #476 iceweasel

I HOPE ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PISSING ON ROPES ARE HAPPY NOW!

I swear, I oughta print up some shirts that say

The Great Rope Pissing Contest of 2010
I WAS THERE!

489 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:34:55pm

Cease fire! Cease fire!

Can’t we all just… oh never mind. Carry on.

/

490 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:35:25pm

re: #449 recusancy

Before long? Like reeeaaalllyyy long.

I agree that any amount of time that inequalities were endured is too long. That America also had such things as slavery and the fact that woman were not immediately granted equal rights is insupportable, of course.

491 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:35:32pm

re: #473 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks, will do. Perhaps drunk was an overstatement, I’m only about a sheet to the wind. Can still spell.

Really, everyone seems very worked up. Is it just me?

I don’t know about you, but alcohol has no affect on me.
/

492 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:36:11pm

Here’s a thought about conflict from a famous soldier:

“Differences in political opinions are as unavoidable as, to a certain point, they may perhaps be necessary; but it is exceedingly to be regretted that subjects cannot be discussed with temper on the one hand, or decisions submitted to without having the motives, which led to them, improperly implicated on the other; and this regret borders on chagrin when we find that men of abilities, zealous patriots, having the same general objects in view, and the same upright intentions to prosecute them, will not exercise more charity in deciding on the opinions and actions of one another.”
— George Washington
letter to Alexander Hamilton, Aug. 26, 1792
493 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:36:19pm

re: #473 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks, will do. Perhaps drunk was an overstatement, I’m only about a sheet to the wind. Can still spell.

Really, everyone seems very worked up. Is it just me?

What are you drinkin’?

494 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:36:48pm

re: #471 recusancy

Has your opinion and/or your friends opinions become more or less enthusiastic about Obama since then?

I don’t know just where they are right now. I am, I guess, less bitter about Obama than I was—for a time it really just felt like a slap at Hillary. I’ve sort of gotten used to him, I suppose. I feel his defense decisions have been largely sound. He’s OK. He’s just not wearing a pantsuit. Check back with me in a couple years.

495 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:36:54pm

re: #489 Gus 802

Lol I do feel kind of bad for making that happen.


I just have this vain hope that that kind of behavior would be unacceptable, or at least seen for what it is >>

(don’t you love nonapologies?!)

496 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:37:08pm

re: #476 iceweasel

I HOPE ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PISSING ON ROPES ARE HAPPY NOW!

That I had to upding, because it is quite a clever sendup, but it is not insulting.

497 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:37:49pm

re: #473 SanFranciscoZionist
Politics, religion… We all have to believe in something. Right now I believe I’ll have another beer. Let’s cheer up shall we? The election is over with. Done. Finito.

498 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:38:01pm

I guess “God’s plan” included keeping Palin out of Washington.

Thanks, God!

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:38:20pm

re: #474 Bagua

Its just semantics to go on and on about the meaning of the word “elite.” Not allowing children to vote is a sort of elitism as is not allowing fish to vote.

The obvious point being the very essence of the American revolution and resulting freedoms and rights were very much a rejection of rule by aristocratic elites.

Thank you for putting me on the same par as a fish, she muttered…

Seriously, that is true, but it’s very much a glass half empty, glass half full thing. Both are true.

500 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:38:30pm

re: #497 Rightwingconspirator

Politics, religion… We all have to believe in something. Right now I believe I’ll have another beer. Let’s cheer up shall we? The election is over with. Done. Finito.

The 2008 election is over, but the 2010 campaign is just getting started.

501 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:38:37pm

re: #495 windsagio

Lol I do feel kind of bad for making that happen.

I just have this vain hope that that kind of behavior would be unacceptable, or at least seen for what it is >>

(don’t you love nonapologies?!)

Like they say. It’s all good. Or circa 1979, “it’s cool.”

502 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:38:52pm

re: #485 wozzablog

Uncalled for snark.

503 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:38:54pm

re: #491 rwmofo

I don’t know about you, but alcohol has no affect on me.
/

blogging is the new dope…an opiate…first you get this incredible buzz of enlightenment and sense of worth, then you crash from the weight of your own importance into an egotistical stupor where you cannot deal with criticism or disagreement until you make an ass of yourself

504 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:39:10pm

re: #482 windsagio

That’s a bonus, isn’t it?

Well, for me…I don’t get the cougar thing.

505 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:39:19pm

re: #494 SanFranciscoZionist

I don’t know just where they are right now. I am, I guess, less bitter about Obama than I was—for a time it really just felt like a slap at Hillary. I’ve sort of gotten used to him, I suppose. I feel his defense decisions have been largely sound. He’s OK. He’s just not wearing a pantsuit. Check back with me in a couple years.

So you’d be happy if Obama wore a pants suit?

Becareful what you wish for!

506 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:40:08pm

re: #504 SanFranciscoZionist

I don’t either tbh. Its probably just a media Fad.


Altho’. Mrs. Robinson was way hotter than Elaine, maybe the key’s in there.

507 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:40:10pm

re: #505 jamesfirecat

So you’d be happy if Obama wore a pants suit?

Becareful what you wish for!

You know what they say. First they start by wearing mom jeans. Next thing you know, they’re wearing pant suits…

//

508 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:40:40pm

re: #485 wozzablog

Um. There is a difference between allowing a fish to vote in 1806 and not allowing a black man to vote in 1806…

After the revolution the landed, white & male power structure continued.


Agreed. I don’t dispute that. It does not, however, mean that the intention was rule by elites. Rather this was more a case or racism in thinking that Blacks were not equal as humans. This wrong was corrected over time, through great pain and suffering.

509 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:40:43pm

re: #496 Dark_Falcon

That I had to upding, because it is quite a clever sendup, but it is not insulting.

Thanks.
I’ve tried to not be insulting, even when called names up thread. I don’t believe I have been.

510 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:40:55pm

re: #502 wozzablog

Downding for recalling a uncalled for snark.

511 abolitionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:40:57pm

re: #268 MandyManners

Let’s bleed the living fuck out of rich people in Europe.

European countries are increasingly pegging speeding fines to income as a way to punish wealthy scofflaws who would otherwise ignore tickets.

Advocates say a $290,000 (euro203,180.83) speeding ticket slapped on a millionaire Ferrari driver in Switzerland was a fair and well-deserved example of the trend.

SNIP

I have to wonder whether such policy will soon be extended to other offenses (traffic and non-traffic) like jaywalking, littering, etc.

512 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:41:02pm

re: #498 Sharmuta

In other words, President Obama is God’s “Plan A”.

513 SteveC  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:41:11pm

re: #505 jamesfirecat

So you’d be happy if Obama wore a pants suit?

Becareful what you wish for!

THERE IT GOES!
My last little bit of sanity just got tossed out the window by that image.

514 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:41:19pm

re: #493 Capitalist Tool

What are you drinkin’?

Chardonnay. I’m a California girl.

I’m also stopping now, because the bottle seems to be empty. And the only remaining alcohol in the house is grappa, which just seems like a terrible idea.

515 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:41:47pm

re: #505 jamesfirecat

So you’d be happy if Obama wore a pants suit?

Becareful what you wish for!

Leisure Suit Barry!

516 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:42:04pm

re: #481 SanFranciscoZionist

How old do you have to be to be a cougar? Besides, I’m married.

You can be a married cougar.
Puma = 30’s
Cougar = 40’s
Sabertooth = 50’s

517 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:42:12pm

re: #503 albusteve

blogging is the new dope…an opiate…first you get this incredible buzz of enlightenment and sense of worth, then you crash from the weight of your own importance into an egotistical stupor where you cannot deal with criticism or disagreement until you make an ass of yourself

I was usually having a lot of fun right before I realized I was making an ass of myself and even more so right before they closed the jail cell door.

518 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:42:16pm

re: #504 SanFranciscoZionist

puma- cougar- a joke with seedy pop- culture undertones- signifying nothing in relation to you- other than your having planted the opportune seed with “I’m not…”

Anyhow, what’re you drinking, just out of curiosity…

519 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:42:24pm

i get a down ding for calling myself on a snark?

520 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:42:25pm

re: #514 SanFranciscoZionist

Chardonnay. I’m a California girl.

I’m also stopping now, because the bottle seems to be empty. And the only remaining alcohol in the house is grappa, which just seems like a terrible idea.

NOT good to mix your drinks.
Don’t ask how I know, OK?
Just don’t do it!

521 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:42:34pm

re: #498 Sharmuta

Amen.

522 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:42:42pm

re: #505 jamesfirecat

So you’d be happy if Obama wore a pants suit?

Becareful what you wish for!

Point taken.

523 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:42:49pm

re: #519 wozzablog

its so hard to not downding that >

524 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:43:01pm

re: #507 Gus 802

You know what they say. First they start by wearing mom jeans. Next thing you know, they’re wearing pant suits…

//

The horror.
The horror.

525 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:43:01pm

re: #519 wozzablog

i get a down ding for calling myself on a snark?

No, you get updinged by me for that.

526 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:43:03pm

re: #500 Dark_Falcon

Yes indeed. Lets discuss those who are running. All this Palin/McCain stuff is so well rear view mirror. I prefer the view looking ahead. As do you I think.

re: #512 freetoken
Can we check that with Rev Wright?
*ducks fast*
J/K!!!

527 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:43:04pm

re: #519 wozzablog

i get a down ding for calling myself on a snark?

I think he meant it as a joke.

528 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:43:25pm

re: #520 Floral Giraffe

NOT good to mix your drinks.
Don’t ask how I know, OK?
Just don’t do it!

Really? Mythbusters says its easier if you mix your drinks as long as the total amount of alcohol consumed is the same…

529 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:43:28pm

re: #512 freetoken

In other words, President Obama is God’s “Plan A”.

Let us hope we never see Plan B for Biden.

530 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:43:35pm

re: #519 wozzablog

Kidding.

531 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:43:38pm

re: #516 recusancy

I fell victim to a cougar……

I say fell - i mean ran towards, and by victim i mean whipped cream…. and by cougar i mean……

532 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:43:54pm

re: #516 recusancy

You can be a married cougar.
Puma = 30’s
Cougar = 40’s
Sabertooth = 50’s

Whaddaya know? I am a puma.

533 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:44:41pm

Been watching too many cooking shows. I recipes are getting fiddly but lamb and fennel bulb curry is fantastic.

534 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:44:56pm

re: #530 Olsonist

Danke. Mein Herr.

I have a humour impairment at 4:44am today/

presently wound up pretty damn tight unfortunately.

535 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:45:05pm

re: #532 SanFranciscoZionist

hubba.

536 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:45:06pm

re: #530 Olsonist

Kidding.

Downding for being funny.

Don’t try to get Finny with me messier.

537 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:45:13pm

re: #531 wozzablog

You got good brakes. Stopped just in time.
LOL

538 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:45:22pm

re: #310 albusteve

if you’ve read LGF much at all, then you’d know that using the word retarded in any context is highly frowned upon…if you know someones background and in this case identify with his vile posts then that’s all I need to know about you

Honestly, I’ve never really understood this, particularly because by and large the enforcers of this particular taboo are usually the first to first to decry other such PC linguistic hypersensitivities or PC language in general.

In other words, I see hypocrites as more so being the ones to get all butthurt (oh damn, there’s another one) about certain common, colloquial, and yes, we know or we wouldn’t use them, intentionally offensive terms.

Free the word Retard and all its derivatives! Free them for All!

539 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:45:47pm

re: #534 wozzablog

it really is in the air tonight >>

540 palomino  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:45:54pm

re: #368 Gus 802

I’d like to go on record as saying that criticizing John McCain’s naval flight record is bullshit.

Especially now that the 2008 campaign is OVER.

541 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:46:00pm

re: #535 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

hubba.

Word. Represent.

542 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:46:12pm

re: #533 Killgore Trout

Been watching too many cooking shows. I recipes are getting fiddly but lamb and fennel bulb curry is fantastic.

Have you tried anything with fiddlehead fern yet? I think it grows in your region.

543 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:46:18pm

Upstream I mentioned an uncharacteristically informational article at the Orange County Register from earlier in the day.

Then someone mentioned one of their editors, Mark Landsbaum.

Well, sure enough, about 4 hours ago on Landsbaum’s blog, called “Orange Punch” with a tag line of “a liberty blog”, we find the following piece of typical the denial-o-sphere:

Book burning and global warming

… where he approvingly quotes the following piece of UK-sourced nonsense:

“We call on Mr. Gore to co-operate in our effort to relieve human suffering by providing copies of his books for burning in stoves and fireplaces. It is appropriate that Al Gore’s books should be used to help keep poor people warm, since the principal reason the British government is totally unprepared to deal with the brutally cold weather is because they have fallen for the global warming myths propagated by Gore himself in his bestselling books. Burning Gore’s otherwise worthless books to keep people from freezing is their highest and best use.”

The truth is, the reason that the UK is unprepared for winter is that they’ve gotten used to warmer times, and also the North Sea production of hydrocarbons has long peaked and the UK is now an importer. It’s pretty much a classic ant & grasshopper type of story over there.

544 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:46:24pm

re: #538 goddamnedfrank

its really a form of bullying.

They’re trying to shut people down by complaining about their language, rather than addressing their points.

545 avanti  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:46:33pm

re: #439 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but when liberals downding patriotic song post and call them “jingoistic”, then those liberals are walking on the fighting side of me, to borrow from Merle Haggard.

Perhaps you recall the “patriots” on here questioning the fact that I’m a vet early on. Apparently, some of the patriots on the right can’t wrap there brain around a vet that is not from the right. I actually had to offer to e-mail my DD 214 to Charles to quite the discussion.
Patriotism is much more than waving flags and listening to inspiring music. BTW, you were one of the conservatives that stuck up for the few lefties we had back then, and I’ll never forget that.

546 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:47:04pm

re: #538 goddamnedfrank

Good points.

What a weird thread. I’m agreeing with Frank.

547 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:47:12pm

re: #541 SanFranciscoZionist

Word. Represent.

Yo.

548 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:47:51pm

re: #545 avanti

Dark is good people.

Too bad he’s WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING!


(I kid I kid, I’m sure theres something he’s right about.)


/probably alot of things actually :)

549 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:48:17pm

re: #547 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yo.

Hubba Hubba and yo ho HO

550 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:48:18pm

re: #533 Killgore Trout

Been watching too many cooking shows. I recipes are getting fiddly but lamb and fennel bulb curry is fantastic.

I recently tried a curry in new york. Have you had a chance to compare what you have there with the UK stuff?

551 recusancy  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:48:30pm

re: #545 avanti

Perhaps you recall the “patriots” on here questioning the fact that I’m a vet early on. Apparently, some of the patriots on the right can’t wrap there brain around a vet that is not from the right. I actually had to offer to e-mail my DD 214 to Charles to quite the discussion.
Patriotism is much more than waving flags and listening to inspiring music. BTW, you were one of the conservatives that stuck up for the few lefties we had back then, and I’ll never forget that.

I’m sure many of the “patriots” who were questioning you were yellow elephants themselves.

552 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:48:40pm

re: #545 avanti

I didn’t like you at first… but… well, you sumovabitch…

553 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:49:09pm

re: #542 Thanos

Have you tried anything with fiddlehead fern yet? I think it grows in your region.

I haven’t tried ferns yet but I’m becoming very interested local foraging. Thanks for the reminder, I’ll give them a try this spring when growth starts.

554 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:49:18pm

re: #528 jamesfirecat

Really? Mythbusters says its easier if you mix your drinks as long as the total amount of alcohol consumed is the same…

Try it, and get back to us…
if you can!

555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:49:25pm

re: #541 SanFranciscoZionist

Word. Represent.

Hey! Are you “light skinned”?
/

556 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:49:49pm

re: #553 Killgore Trout

Boiled nettles! Or Skunk Cabbage. Both grow here > (and I live where you do)

557 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:50:02pm

g’nite kids.

i have to hit the pone in a couple of hours.

bah.

558 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:50:18pm

re: #550 Jimmah

I haven’t spent much time in NYC but it’d be damn hard to beat a good British curry.

559 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:50:52pm

re: #556 windsagio

Boiled nettles! Or Skunk Cabbage. Both grow here > (and I live where you do)


Fetch me another bowl o’ that poke salad, Annie.

560 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:50:59pm

re: #553 Killgore Trout

Stalking the wild Asparagus

excellent book on the subject if you don’t already have it.

561 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:51:05pm

re: #551 recusancy

I’m sure many of the “patriots” who were questioning you were yellow elephants themselves.

Upding for someone else who knows about Operation Yellow Elephant!

562 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:51:08pm

re: #554 Floral Giraffe

Try it, and get back to us…
if you can!

I don’t drink at all but like I said watch the episode sometime

That said, since there’s more liquor per liquid with shots its probably easier to consume more since it probably takes less effort to take a shot than drink a beer.

But who knows, maybe Grant and Torry were just outliers…

563 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:51:19pm

re: #558 Killgore Trout

I haven’t spent much time in NYC but it’d be damn hard to beat a good British curry.

or it’s derivative, Jamaican curry…especially goat, a traditional favorite

564 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:51:20pm

re: #556 windsagio

Nettle soup is on my list of things to try out.

565 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:51:29pm

re: #543 freetoken

Upstream I mentioned an uncharacteristically informational article at the Orange County Register from earlier in the day.

Then someone mentioned one of their editors, Mark Landsbaum.

Well, sure enough, about 4 hours ago on Landsbaum’s blog, called “Orange Punch” with a tag line of “a liberty blog”, we find the following piece of typical the denial-o-sphere:

Book burning and global warming

… where he approvingly quotes the following piece of UK-sourced nonsense:

The truth is, the reason that the UK is unprepared for winter is that they’ve gotten used to warmer times, and also the North Sea production of hydrocarbons has long peaked and the UK is now an importer. It’s pretty much a classic ant & grasshopper type of story over there.

It’s not as simple as that. The MET predicted a warm winter. The local councils are all spending money on “climate change consultants” and such, but underspent on salt, grit and snow shovels. They were caught with their pants down because of all the warmist propaganda. They have plenty of coal, but are building ineffective wind mills instead of coal or even nuclear.

566 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:52:01pm

re: #553 Killgore Trout

I haven’t tried ferns yet but I’m becoming very interested local foraging. Thanks for the reminder, I’ll give them a try this spring when growth starts.

We used to stop at a place halfway between Fbx and Anchorage that served Fiddle head fern soup and I really liked it. Wish I had their recipe.

567 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:52:08pm

re: #539 windsagio

it really is in the air tonight >>

Youtube Video
568 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:52:29pm

re: #560 windsagio

Stalking the wild Asparagus

excellent book on the subject if you don’t already have it.

Thanks, bookmarked. I’m also trying to learn my mushrooms too. Complicated stuff.

569 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:52:38pm

re: #564 Killgore Trout

Nettle soup is on my list of things to try out.

it’s weeds Killgore…c’mon….have some dignity

570 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:52:53pm

re: #555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey! Are you “light skinned”?
/

Compared to Barack Obama? Very.

Although my father did once convince a fellow police cadet that he was black.

571 avanti  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:53:33pm

re: #548 windsagio

Dark is good people.

Too bad he’s WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING!

(I kid I kid, I’m sure theres something he’s right about.)

/probably alot of things actually :)

Dark is friggin saint. If you look up “rational conservative” in the dictionary, you’ll see his face.

572 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:53:58pm

re: #545 avanti

Perhaps you recall the “patriots” on here questioning the fact that I’m a vet early on. Apparently, some of the patriots on the right can’t wrap there brain around a vet that is not from the right. I actually had to offer to e-mail my DD 214 to Charles to quite the discussion.
Patriotism is much more than waving flags and listening to inspiring music. BTW, you were one of the conservatives that stuck up for the few lefties we had back then, and I’ll never forget that.

You deserved support and it was simply Just to provide it. You got piled on unjustly on a number of occasions.

573 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:54:02pm

re: #563 albusteve

or it’s derivative, Jamaican curry…especially goat, a traditional favorite

Manish Water is very delicious!

574 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:54:03pm

re: #568 Killgore Trout

I grew up with that stuff, its great fun as a kid to go out foraging (mushrooms too, but my mom wouldn’t let me pick those, since they’re a bit more dangerous to get wrong).

575 Stanley Sea  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:54:34pm

re: #563 albusteve

or it’s derivative, Jamaican curry…especially goat, a traditional favorite

Goat curry. Rarely mentioned, but I had it in the Caymans. Yum.

576 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:55:05pm

re: #568 Killgore Trout

Thanks, bookmarked. I’m also trying to learn my mushrooms too. Complicated stuff.

Mushrooms are hard. And a bad decision is fatal.
Be carefull, please?

577 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:55:09pm

re: #574 windsagioPardon, “bit” should read “lot”

578 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:55:13pm

re: #569 albusteve

it’s weeds Killgore…c’mon…have some dignity

I eat dandelions pretty regularly. I don’t really advertise the fact but I feel no shame.

579 avanti  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:55:31pm

re: #572 Dark_Falcon

You deserved support and it was simply Just to provide it. You got piled on unjustly on a number of occasions.

OK, lets break up the group hug and fight about something./

580 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:55:56pm

re: #573 Killgore Trout

Manish Water is very delicious!

never ate it…but Jamaicans are very keen for eyeballs it’s true….I’ll pass (out)

581 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:55:56pm

re: #579 avanti

OK, lets break up the group hug and fight about something./

blow off

582 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:56:03pm

re: #571 avanti

Dark is friggin saint. If you look up “rational conservative” in the dictionary, you’ll see his face.

I can be an asshole at times, but I work hard to overcome that be a just and decent man.

583 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:56:25pm

Fiddleheads are mildly toxic btw, so don’t eat a lot of them at once.

584 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:56:35pm

re: #576 Floral Giraffe

Mushrooms are hard. And a bad decision is fatal.
Be carefull, please?

I will. I have in the past been very reckless with trying unknown ‘shrooms and have been very lucky. I’m much more cautious these days.

585 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:56:59pm

re: #558 Killgore Trout

I haven’t spent much time in NYC but it’d be damn hard to beat a good British curry.

You are right there. You guys are missing out on the Indian food. Even the most downmarket place in the UK is streets ahead in terms of flavour. Also, someone seems to have given you guys the wrong starter recipes. Pakora should NOT be burned black and should be served with mildly spicy pakora sauce, not that weird little gravy thing. And spiced onions should be cool and refreshingly sweet, not sour and so hot you can’t taste anything you put in your mouth afterwards.

But I have to say, in every other department New York was absolutely first rate for food. Chinese, Italian, Mexican , traditional American…all brilliant.

586 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:57:19pm

re: #575 Stanley Sea

Goat curry. Rarely mentioned, but I had it in the Caymans. Yum.

Goat Curry is fairly prevalent in Indian restaurants.

587 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:57:47pm

re: #577 Capitalist Tool

re: #576 Floral Giraffe

so very true. They also have this problem where even the safe-to-eat ones get these disgusting worms in them, and become unedible.

588 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:58:00pm

re: #584 Killgore Trout

I will. I have in the past been very reckless with trying unknown ‘shrooms and have been very lucky. I’m much more cautious these days.

Morels are distintive in appearance and easily identifiable, which is all for the good since they are so tasty. Try searching after an early Spring rain.

589 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:58:23pm

re: #569 albusteve

it’s weeds Killgore…c’mon…have some dignity

Some “weeds” are not weeds, but rather herbs, and who doesn’t like herbs?

590 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:58:27pm

re: #585 Jimmah

You are right there. You guys are missing out on the Indian food. Even the most downmarket place in the UK is streets ahead in terms of flavour. Also, someone seems to have given you guys the wrong starter recipes. Pakora should NOT be burned black and should be served with mildly spicy pakora sauce, not that weird little gravy thing. And spiced onions should be cool and refreshingly sweet, not sour and so hot you can’t taste anything you put in your mouth afterwards.

But I have to say, in every other department New York was absolutely first rate for food. Chinese, Italian, Mexican , traditional American…all brilliant.

So is Chicago. Actually, though, i think Chicago is actually ahead of New York in Indian food, as we have some fine places on Devon Avenue.

591 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:58:35pm

BTW, the blog to which Landsbaum links is called “FreedomAction”, which itself highlights (links to on the splash page) two primary sources:

Pajamas Media
Pravda
(heh, like two peas in a pod…)

592 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:58:49pm

re: #579 avanti

Actually, given that I have to go to work soon, and how bad things were a while ago, I’m glad to be able to head out on a positive note :)

593 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:58:59pm

I never heard “kumbaya” in a religious way, before.
Group hugs are better.
This is a barfalert!
Seriously, a drum circle, at least doesn’t have words.

WHY did I go looking for this?

Youtube Video
594 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:59:12pm

re: #255 iceweasel

As an appeal to fairness, after the LA Times hit piece on McCain, would you two mind reading this link? I say you two as you both down dinged me. Which is fine if we disagree. But will we after you read that?

595 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:59:24pm

re: #589 Sharmuta

Some “weeds” are not weeds, but rather herbs, and who doesn’t like herbs?


Especially the blue- staining ones- no wait, you’re talkin’ herbs now…

596 albusteve  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:59:26pm

now I’m hungry for fried cactus and boiled owl….outski

597 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:59:35pm

re: #585 Jimmah

Are you insinuating that there is tasty British food?

598 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:00:28pm

re: #591 freetoken

BTW, the blog to which Landsbaum links is called “FreedomAction”, which itself highlights (links to on the splash page) two primary sources:

Pajamas Media
Pravda
(heh, like two peas in a pod…)

Both organizations have names that start with P, and they both tell outrageous lies regularly.

599 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:00:35pm

re: #597 Bagua

Are you insinuating that there is tasty British food?

Well, haggis isn’t really British…

600 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:00:58pm

re: #597 Bagua

Are you insinuating that there is tasty British food?

As I read it, no. Tasty Indian food, in Brittain.
HI BAGUA!
Happy New Year to you!

601 avanti  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:01:18pm

re: #584 Killgore Trout

I will. I have in the past been very reckless with trying unknown ‘shrooms and have been very lucky. I’m much more cautious these days.

All mushrooms are edible, some just once. ( I think I stole that from here)

602 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:01:22pm

re: #565 Bagua

They were caught with their pants down because of all the warmist propaganda. They have plenty of coal, but are building ineffective wind mills instead of coal or even nuclear.

Recommend you don’t row in the Pravda/PJM navy.

Also, don’t know where you got your information on UK coal, but their coal production peaked a long time ago. First, it is a dirty fuel so they gladly got off it as soon as possible. Secondly, the coal became uneconomical because the deposits were deep enough to drive up mining costs significantly.

IOW, it’s cheaper for them to import natural gas from Russia than dig up coal.

603 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:03:32pm

re: #594 Rightwingconspirator

As an appeal to fairness, after the LA Times hit piece on McCain, would you two mind reading this link? I say you two as you both down dinged me. Which is fine if we disagree. But will we after you read that?

I downdinged you, as I explained at the time, for making the wholly unfounded accusation that I didn’t respect McCain’s service.

As for the factcheck article, I have already read it, and recommended it myself to albusteve upthread.

604 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:03:42pm

re: #590 Dark_Falcon

So is Chicago. Actually, though, i think Chicago is actually ahead of New York in Indian food, as we have some fine places on Devon Avenue.

The Dallas area has a shitload of Indian restaurants. I moved here in ‘03 and hadn’t really tried Indian food before then but have it at least twice per month now. Well, I have a lot of Indian colleagues and we go to lunch together. If you haven’t tried it, give it a go. You’ll be glad you did.

605 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:03:58pm

re: #597 Bagua

Are you insinuating that there is tasty British food?

Hell yeah - they’re even eating it in Delhi…

Youtube Video
606 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:04:04pm

re: #602 freetoken

Recommend you don’t row in the Pravda/PJM navy.

Also, don’t know where you got your information on UK coal, but their coal production peaked a long time ago. First, it is a dirty fuel so they gladly got off it as soon as possible. Secondly, the coal became uneconomical because the deposits were deep enough to drive up mining costs significantly.

IOW, it’s cheaper for them to import natural gas from Russia than dig up coal.

Yeeah, but if they increase their reliance on Russia, they’re being stupid. Russia will make them its bitch by threatening to cut the supplies if Britain does not go along with whatever Russia wants.

607 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:04:50pm

re: #599 Capitalist Tool

Well, haggis isn’t really British…

I believe most Scottish quisine is based around dares…

608 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:05:10pm

re: #600 Floral Giraffe

As I read it, no. Tasty Indian food, in Brittain.
HI BAGUA!
Happy New Year to you!

Happy New Year to you too my friend.

And to be fair, they do make a few nice cheeses and a couple of other edible things, mostly of the liquid sort. But the one saving grace is the prevalence of Indo/Pak food.

The truly wealthy have long known that the best way to slim is to spend sometime in the UK.

609 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:05:37pm

re: #603 iceweasel

Hey, Sister responded to my request of “what she couldn’t get in the UK” if you want a copy…nic is, well, colored!

610 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:05:54pm

If you must be colonized, be colonized by the French. The Brits will leave you with a good legal system and lousy cooking. The French on the other hand will leave you with a so so legal system and excellent cooking. In a jam, getting colonized by the Italians isn’t so bad but strictly avoid the Germans. However, if you are unlucky enough to get colonized by the Swiss your teeth will rot.

611 rwmofo  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:05:58pm

re: #596 albusteve

now I’m hungry for fried cactus and boiled owl…outski

Boiled owl? Ummm, really?

612 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:05:59pm

re: #602 freetoken

Recommend you don’t row in the Pravda/PJM navy.

Also, don’t know where you got your information on UK coal, but their coal production peaked a long time ago. First, it is a dirty fuel so they gladly got off it as soon as possible. Secondly, the coal became uneconomical because the deposits were deep enough to drive up mining costs significantly.

IOW, it’s cheaper for them to import natural gas from Russia than dig up coal.

Also- my understanding was that due to AGW, storms would become more severe, and we’d see that in winter storms as much as summer storms. I’m not sure why people always associate “storms” with warmer weather, but I’m not surprised to see this overall pattern continuing. Regardless of where the UK gets its energy, we’re going to continue to see storms like this, and it’s the role of the government to be prepared for them- period.

613 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:06:06pm

re: #607 jamesfirecat

I believe most Scottish quisine is based around dares…


You first.

614 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:06:14pm

Oh, Thanos should like this one…

That site, FreedomAction.org, to which OCR’s editor Landsbaum links is registered to …

Competitive Enterprise Institute

1899 L ST NW
Floor 12
Washington, District of Columbia 20036
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (godaddy.com)
Domain Name: FREEDOMACTION.ORG
Created on: 02-Apr-09
Expires on: 02-Apr-14
Last Updated on: 29-May-09

Administrative Contact:
Lynch, Ryan rlynch@cei.org
Competitive Enterprise Institute
1899 L ST NW
Floor 12
Washington, District of Columbia 20036
United States
+1.2023311010

Who would have guessed?

615 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:06:40pm

re: #610 Olsonist

If you must be colonized, be colonized by the French. The Brits will leave you with a good legal system and lousy cooking. The French on the other hand will leave you with a so so legal system and excellent cooking. In a jam, getting colonized by the Italians isn’t so bad but strictly avoid the Germans. However, if you are unlucky enough to get colonized by the Swiss your teeth will rot.

Who have the swiss ever conlonized?

(Only half joking)

616 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:06:47pm

re: #597 Bagua

Are you insinuating that there is tasty British food?

You get a worldwide empire, some good food tends to follow.

Luckily, because indigenous British cuisine is…weird.

617 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:07:08pm

re: #610 Olsonist

Nom nom nom.
;)

618 windsagio  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:07:32pm

OK worktime!

See you folks tomorrow most likely :)


Also, I love the sheer range of topics this thread covered, was mad fun :)

619 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:08:17pm

I just keep waiting for Afghan and Iraqi restaurants all over the place.

620 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:08:17pm

re: #588 Capitalist Tool

Morels are distintive in appearance and easily identifiable, which is all for the good since they are so tasty. Try searching after an early Spring rain.

I do have a patch of Morels in my garden that I started a few years ago for a kit I bought online. It’s been about 5 years and I get more every year.

621 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:08:35pm

re: #603 iceweasel

Okay point to you. My error. I deserved the ding.

622 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:09:20pm

re: #614 freetoken

Oh, Thanos should like this one…

That site, FreedomAction.org, to which OCR’s editor Landsbaum links is registered to …

Who would have guessed?

Sorry I’m multitasking tonight (running herd on some vendor sites trying to hook up to production test environment) OCR?

623 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:09:56pm

re: #614 freetoken

Oh, Thanos should like this one…

That site, FreedomAction.org, to which OCR’s editor Landsbaum links is registered to …

Who would have guessed?

David Koch all over again. More astroturfing. Run by Myron Ebell.

624 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:10:13pm

re: #615 jamesfirecat

Don’t even get me started on the Swiss. If you’re in an interesting place in Europe and you want to go to another interesting place, occasionally Switzerland will get in the way.

625 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:11:13pm

re: #624 Olsonist

Don’t even get me started on the Swiss. If you’re in an interesting place in Europe and you want to go to another interesting place, occasionally Switzerland will get in the way.

And by “get to” we mean “invade” since this is Europe after all!

626 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:11:41pm

re: #624 Olsonist

Don’t even get me started on the Swiss. If you’re in an interesting place in Europe and you want to go to another interesting place, occasionally Switzerland will get in the way.


Watch your speed, per up- thread linky.

627 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:11:42pm

re: #612 Sharmuta

Nearly everyone agrees, from what I gather, that a warming climate will definitely lead to increased precipitation in the high latitudes.

And, “precipitation” includes any form of water, including snow.

Obviously warming temperatures will lead to a change in the snow line…

Also, specifically it would not be possible to delineate the UK’s current weather cause between AGW, El Nino, Pacific Decadal oscillation, or any of a number of other phenomena.

Yet it is pretty clear that we have just finished our 6th decade of rising temperatures - look for a big news splash this week as NCDC and maybe NASA come out with their end of year analyses.

628 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:11:51pm

OK…going to watch TV.

Night all.

629 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:12:34pm

re: #622 Thanos

Sorry I’m multitasking tonight (running herd on some vendor sites trying to hook up to production test environment) OCR?

Orange County Register.

630 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:12:43pm

Related to the topic:

Book: Pawlenty ‘great pick,’ but not in ‘08

It also describes an interesting double-take by President George W. Bush, who was watching television in the West Wing and thought he heard Pawlenty named as McCain’s pick. Bush apparently felt vice president Pawlenty made a lot more sense than Palin.

According to the book: “[H]e thought at first he heard ‘Pawlenty.’ (Interesting, he mused.) But then he realized that the name was Palin, and he was completely baffled. (Where did that come from?)”

I got a chuckle from that.

631 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:12:54pm

re: #628 SanFranciscoZionist

OK…going to watch TV.

Night all.


Will be a pleasure when you next appear…

632 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:13:02pm

re: #614 freetoken

Careful there our posts are not supposed to include email addresses. I have had a press release deleted for exactly that.

633 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:13:32pm

re: #616 SanFranciscoZionist

You get a worldwide empire, some good food tends to follow.

Luckily, because indigenous British cuisine is…weird.

Some of it is weird but the real problem is the lost the plot for while there and mushy peas on toast out of a can and tinned baked beans became the norm instead of real cooked food. I’ve been catching up on British cooking shows and there’s a serious interest in reviving their food culture. Jellied eel might sound fucked up to us but it’s a sustainable resource, cheap, healthy and probably pretty damn tasty when done right.

634 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:14:04pm

re: #632 Rightwingconspirator

This is from a publicly accessible database.

635 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:14:19pm

re: #503 albusteve

blogging is the new dope…an opiate…first you get this incredible buzz of enlightenment and sense of worth, then you crash from the weight of your own importance into an egotistical stupor where you cannot deal with criticism or disagreement until you make an ass of yourself

I bypassed all that shit and went straight to making an ass out of myself.

636 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:14:23pm

re: #633 Killgore Trout
sure

637 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:14:28pm

re: #629 freetoken

Orange County Register.

Like most newspapers, the OCR is pretty much on death’s doorstep.

638 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:15:54pm

re: #602 freetoken

Recommend you don’t row in the Pravda/PJM navy.

Also, don’t know where you got your information on UK coal, but their coal production peaked a long time ago. First, it is a dirty fuel so they gladly got off it as soon as possible. Secondly, the coal became uneconomical because the deposits were deep enough to drive up mining costs significantly.

IOW, it’s cheaper for them to import natural gas from Russia than dig up coal.

Pravda/PJM? Most of the nation is house-locked because the streets and sidewalks are sheets of ice. Not being prepared for a cold snowy winter was a mistake of massive proportions and is causing great necessary hardship and loss of productivity.

Coal is very much under attack, domestic or imported, and the result is reliance on imported gas which is fraught with opportunities for interruption. The wind farms/subsidy farms have turned out to be a farce with no wind blowing in the cold weather.

They bought into the foolish notion that snow and ice was to become a rare event and are suffering as a result.

639 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:17:16pm

re: #634 freetoken
Yeah, hey I’m still learning here. I posted a press release from the Libertarian Party, about as public as it gets. It lasted a few seconds.
I could be wrong about exactly where the line is drawn. Just looking out for ya.

640 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:17:28pm

re: #602 freetoken

Recommend you don’t row in the Pravda/PJM navy.

Also, don’t know where you got your information on UK coal, but their coal production peaked a long time ago. First, it is a dirty fuel so they gladly got off it as soon as possible. Secondly, the coal became uneconomical because the deposits were deep enough to drive up mining costs significantly.

IOW, it’s cheaper for them to import natural gas from Russia than dig up coal.

Good lord you’re right. They link to Pravda. How phucked up is that. They even link to that “How the World Works” turd that used to be here at LGF before he was blocked. He’s a Cooler Heads/CEI hack.

641 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:17:57pm

Larouche supporter? Paulian?

George H.W. Bush Gets Verbally Roasted In Houston Restaurant

Liveleak Video

Tea Party!

642 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:20:06pm

re: #629 freetoken

Orange County Register.

Thanks I’ll check it out. Most long time R’s will tell you that CEI is only good on Foreign policy and free trade. The rest has always been of highly questionable value, and known to be industry backed.
e.g. remember this?

In March 1996, CEI’s Michelle Malkin and Michael Fumento published “Rachel’s Folly,” which claims that dioxin is good for you

643 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:21:41pm

Slight OT, but it mentions Palin:

No Seat for Wall Street at Tea Party

Could all those populist pitchforks currently pointed at Washington be turned toward Wall Street instead?

That’s the question that ought to worry Wall Street executives as they prepare to pay themselves nice bonuses this month, hard on the heels of a government bailout of the financial system, and amid continuing job losses around the rest of the country. Financial firms know they’re in for heat on bonuses; they’ve already been chastised on national TV by President Barack Obama’s chief economist.

The more searing heat, though, might come not from Washington’s corridors of power but from the streets, where disjointed populist armies are starting to organize in the so-called tea-party movement.

It’s a movement dominated for the moment by mistrust of big government and big government health-care plans. But it’s also animated by mistrust of big institutions in general, and a tendency to see those institutions secretly working in tandem to the detriment of the little guy. So it’s a short leap from anger at Washington’s spending of taxpayer dollars to anger at Wall Street executives saved by those same taxpayer dollars — and then taking home big bonus checks.

We won’t have to wait long to find out how combustible this mixture might be. The tea-party movement is holding its first national convention Feb. 4 to 6, in Nashville, and organizers say it’s already sold out. Former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin will be the star speaker; East Coast elites of all stripes might want to steer clear.

644 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:21:56pm

re: #641 Killgore Trout

“If you knew anything about real history…..Fuck you!”
/lol

645 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:22:49pm

re: #641 Killgore Trout

Dude thinks the last real President was JFK- he could be any sort of flavor of weirdo.

646 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:23:09pm

re: #641 Killgore Trout

Fuzzy’s Pizza. Just across I-10 from me.

647 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:23:10pm

re: #642 Thanos

I am a massive Rachel Carson fan.

648 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:23:52pm

re: #633 Killgore Trout

Once you perfect the jellied eel, we’d like the recipe!
TIA!
;)

649 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:24:18pm

re: #641 Killgore Trout

The heckler sounds a bit more like an anti-Israel leftist.

650 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:24:32pm

re: #645 Sharmuta

Dude thinks the last real President was JFK- he could be any sort of flavor of weirdo.

Yeah, that’s what makes me suspect he’s a larouche sort of guy. I’m not sure what the JBS theories on JFK are. Could be anything.

651 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:25:05pm

re: #648 Floral Giraffe

Once you perfect the jellied eel, we’d like the recipe!
TIA!
;)


If it’s anything like sea cucumber, count me out.

652 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:25:16pm

Been offline all day, and am just swinging by at bedtime. So…

Youtube Video
653 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:25:27pm

re: #639 Rightwingconspirator

Just looking out for ya.

Thanks… however, it is pretty much within the nature of LGF to dig up links and especially sources. Private emails Charles has obviously decreed out of bounds; the public registry of domains though is a *choice* by the register. Indeed, if CEI wanted to they could have made that registration private by using GoDaddy’s privacy service, but they chose not to.

654 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:25:45pm

re: #616 SanFranciscoZionist

You get a worldwide empire, some good food tends to follow.

Luckily, because indigenous British cuisine is…weird.

It is not!/

Youtube Video
655 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:25:51pm

re: #647 Olsonist

I am a massive Rachel Carson fan.

She was my fathers aunt.

656 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:26:24pm

re: #644 Killgore Trout

“If you knew anything about real history…Fuck you!”
/lol

It’s getting props by Paulians, Prisonplanet and Drudge’s new friend Infowars.

google.com

657 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:26:52pm

re: #621 Rightwingconspirator

Okay point to you. My error. I deserved the ding.

No prob, I just went through this thread giving you some more updings. It’s more than balanced out, and I’d updinged you for other stuff anyway.

Good karma all around!

658 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:27:11pm

re: #642 Thanos

CEI is one of the roots in the tree of AGW denialism. They have been pouring money and effort into the denier industry big time.

659 jaunte  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:27:17pm

re: #648 Floral Giraffe
Yum.

Water containing 2 per cent vinegar and 3 per cent salt, together with 12·5g of spices per litre, is brought to the boil and 50mm pieces of skinned eel are added. The mixture is brought back to the boil and then left to simmer for about 45 minutes. The pieces are then put in large bowls to cool and a weak gelatine solution is added if there is insufficient natural jelly.fao.org
660 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:27:59pm

re: #643 Lidane

At risk of wishful thinking-Perfect let all the whack job Theocons leave the Republicans and start their Tea party. Get their butts kicked like Perot’s party. Then lets see what the electorate has to say about moderate Republicans running for office.

661 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:28:10pm

re: #649 jaunte

The heckler sounds a bit more like an anti-Israel leftist.

And they can sound just like an anti-Israel rightie, which is why it’s long been held here that the far-right and far-left meet at Jew hate.

662 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:28:23pm

re: #641 Killgore Trout

Larouche supporter? Paulian?

George H.W. Bush Gets Verbally Roasted In Houston Restaurant


[Video]Tea Party!

I’d say full bull goose left loon or larouchite with the Kennedy reference and the dead body pics. It’s not stylistically right for a Paulbot.

663 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:28:33pm

re: #627 freetoken

Also, specifically it would not be possible to delineate the UK’s current weather cause between AGW, El Nino, Pacific Decadal oscillation, or any of a number of other phenomena.

Agreed, but it is obvious that they utterly failed to prepare for this weather and that the advice from the MET was misleading and backwards yet again.

It is not a question of poverty, but of concentrating resources on climate change that may take place over centuries and failing to buy salt and prepare for a harsh winter now.

664 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:29:22pm

re: #654 Jimmah

That was pretty funny with the sound off!
Had a dear friend, long gone now, who would come in on Sunday night, look at the teevee showing some animal show or other & ask “What’s f*ing on teevee tonight?”.
I have never looked at animal shows in the same way.

Your peas are best silent.

665 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:29:41pm

re: #656 Gus 802

It’s getting props by Paulians, Prisonplanet and Drudge’s new friend Infowars.

[Link: www.google.com…]

Heh, no surprise there. Although I still suspect the guy is probably a LaRouche nut we’ve seen a pretty solid moronic convergence through the tea parties.

666 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:30:13pm

re: #661 Sharmuta

And they can sound just like an anti-Israel rightie, which is why it’s long been held here that the far-right and far-left meet at Jew hate.


Cause the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestsants
Cause the hindus hate the Muslims
And Everybody hates the Jews!

“National Brotherhood week” by Tom Lehrer

667 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:30:17pm

re: #655 Floral Giraffe

You must be proud. As a writer she has such craft, such pacing.

668 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:30:28pm

re: #663 Bagua
Oh, but they must govern PC, don’t you see?

669 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:30:41pm

re: #653 freetoken

Okay thank you. Plenty to learn here in the details of the rules.
So anyway what was your Avatar before Obama? Surely that was not your picture when you registered?

670 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:30:53pm

The UK’s biggest problem was their nuclear plant construction lull. You can’t pull the plug on Nuclear and replace it with nothing and then expect good results.

671 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:30:55pm

re: #665 Killgore Trout

Heh, no surprise there. Although I still suspect the guy is probably a LaRouche nut we’ve seen a pretty solid moronic convergence through the tea parties.

Yeah, some “all of the above” crazy man.

672 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:31:02pm

re: #641 Killgore Trout

Larouche supporter? Paulian?

George H.W. Bush Gets Verbally Roasted In Houston Restaurant


[Video]Tea Party!

What a piece of shit. That jackass isn’t fit to tie either President Bush’s shoes.

673 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:31:36pm

re: #637 Olsonist

Like most newspapers, the OCR is pretty much on death’s doorstep.

Yeah, the OCR online stuff includes a lot of “cut-n-paste” “journalism”.


Indeed, is anyone else getting frustrated with all the fake news”papers” now online… you know like the “Examiner” and what not. You can find the exact same story at a hundred different domains with supposedly different sounding “newspaper” names. No, it’s not like the wire services of old, because the new “papers” don’t give credit to the sources, or they try to hide it.

The Internet - the end of journalism?

674 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:31:40pm

re: #670 Thanos

The UK’s biggest problem was their nuclear plant construction lull. You can’t pull the plug on Nuclear and replace it with nothing and then expect good results.

Quite Concur.

675 Stanley Sea  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:31:44pm

Oh geeze. I have to start my new workout schedule tomorrow A.M. So in order to get up at the not-meant-to-be hour, must sign off.

As usual its been enlightening and entertaining - thanks all!

676 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:31:52pm

re: #648 Floral Giraffe

Once you perfect the jellied eel, we’d like the recipe!
TIA!
;)

Escape to River Cottage - Episode 5
veoh.com

Skip to about 3:30 if you want to go directly to the eel.

677 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:33:42pm

re: #668 Capitalist Tool

Oh, but they must govern PC, don’t you see?

Exactly.

678 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:33:57pm

re: #572 Dark_Falcon

You deserved support and it was simply Just to provide it. You got piled on unjustly on a number of occasions.

Some folks just couldn’t get past the fact that Avanti is dirty, commie, democrap./

He shares his opinion on a car? Both boots, right down his throat.

679 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:34:01pm

re: #657 iceweasel

Thanks. I do respect you two. Oh and we both share the issue about the dings-Like Do Not Downding The Spouse.

Unless you have a very comfortable couch to sleep on.
;)

680 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:34:05pm

re: #664 Floral Giraffe

That was pretty funny with the sound off!
Had a dear friend, long gone now, who would come in on Sunday night, look at the teevee showing some animal show or other & ask “What’s f*ing on teevee tonight?”.
I have never looked at animal shows in the same way.

Your peas are best silent.

You have no sound at the moment? Well, he was basically saying “Squeezy Cheezy Peas!”

“In traditional and new strawberry flavours!”

681 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:35:13pm

re: #672 Dark_Falcon

What a piece of shit. That jackass isn’t fit to tie either President Bush’s shoes.

Paul, I don’t get. I don’t really make any effort either. But LaRouche? I don’t see how anyone with an opposable thumb could fall for that fraud artist.

682 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:35:51pm

re: #667 Olsonist

You must be proud. As a writer she has such craft, such pacing.

Not really. She was a relative of Dad’s. Never knew that, until after he passed. She’d been gone a long time, at that point. IMHO there’s all kinds of weirod stuff that you find out, after a loved one has passed.
DO NOT ask me about West Virginia gas & oil leases, if you value your life.
That shit makes me crazy. Yes, I said “shit” on that one & I’m not usually foul mouthed. DO NOT ASK.

683 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:35:56pm

re: #673 freetoken

Yeah, the OCR online stuff includes a lot of “cut-n-paste” “journalism”.

Indeed, is anyone else getting frustrated with all the fake news”papers” now online… you know like the “Examiner” and what not. You can find the exact same story at a hundred different domains with supposedly different sounding “newspaper” names. No, it’s not like the wire services of old, because the new “papers” don’t give credit to the sources, or they try to hide it.

The Internet - the end of journalism?

OCR’s not fake. They’ve been around a long time

orange county register wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
They’ve always been Conservative but with a libertarian tilt.

684 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:37:16pm

re: #679 Rightwingconspirator

Thanks. I do respect you two. Oh and we both share the issue about the dings-Like Do Not Downding The Spouse.

Unless you have a very comfortable couch to sleep on.
;)

Cheers! The respect is mutual, believe me. Also you are someone I like disagreeing with, because even when we disagree I always learn from your posts.
Your honey seems terrific too. :)

685 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:37:39pm

re: #676 Killgore Trout

Escape to River Cottage - Episode 5
[Link: www.veoh.com…]

Skip to about 3:30 if you want to go directly to the eel.

Did you make that and eat it?
How long ago?
Would you make it again?

Teasing. Hope you are well.
DO NOT be going mushroom hunting.
We NEED you, KT.

686 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:37:58pm

re: #663 Bagua

… but of concentrating resources on climate change that may take place over centuries and failing to buy salt and prepare for a harsh winter now.

I disagree with your claim that this is due to the locals putting money into AGW mitigation. If they chose to not buy enough salt because of seasonal predictions (that the UKMet did make, which should not be confused with AGW estimations which are given in the IPCC documents, and other places, as decadal expectations)… then the locals just made a (in hindsight) foolish choice in not expecting a harsher than usual winter.

Secondly, you can try and pimp coal use all you want, but you still haven’t addressed why the UK moved off of coal. It was way long before current concerns with AGW. Coal was despised because of the pollution, and the miners became too costly, so the UK readily switched to natural gas. When the North Sea sources came online the UK had plenty of hydrocarbons. Now that the North Sea is well past peak the UK has to import and stockpile hydrocarbons.

All of that was not caused by efforts to mitigate AGW, no matter how much you, OCR and the CEI would like to portray it to be.

687 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:37:59pm

Last night I mentioned I have a rare Hummel print, and since they’re impossible to find online, I thought I’d post it myself and share it:

Madonna and Child

688 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:37:59pm

re: #681 Olsonist

Paul, I don’t get. I don’t really make any effort either. But LaRouche? I don’t see how anyone with an opposable thumb could fall for that fraud artist.

Sadly, they do. I still LaRouche cultists around Chicagoland at times. Mostly I just ignore them. Only once has one of them approached me on the street; He was dismissed with “I don’t have time for your conspiracy theories.”

689 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:38:33pm

re: #680 Jimmah

You have no sound at the moment? Well, he was basically saying “Squeezy Cheezy Peas!”

“In traditional and new strawberry flavours!”

Hee Hee, I have sound, chose NOT to turn it on!

690 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:39:01pm

re: #683 Thanos

Yes, I know, they’ve been around. However, as their print business fades, and they turn to the internet, their internet presence is beginning to smell more and more like the “Examiner” sites.

691 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:39:18pm

re: #676 Killgore Trout

Escape to River Cottage - Episode 5
[Link: www.veoh.com…]

Skip to about 3:30 if you want to go directly to the eel.

He did a taste test in the local town on one show between his own organically reared chicken and the local supermarkets standard produce from the ‘no questions asked’ range. Although he clearly was rooting for the organic stuff, the results of the test were 50/50, with no overall preference. I was impressed that he was honest in presenting those results.

692 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:39:35pm

re: #682 Floral Giraffe

I won’t ask. But I’ll say again, she’s an awesome writer. FWIW, I have a soft spot for Bill Bennett too. I hate his politics but he can write.

693 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:40:08pm

re: #687 Sharmuta

The child has an interesting halo, like a mandala. So unlike hers.

694 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:40:27pm

re: #683 Thanos

I find their libertarianism to be a fake veneer.

695 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:42:30pm

re: #665 Killgore Trout

Heh, no surprise there. Although I still suspect the guy is probably a LaRouche nut we’ve seen a pretty solid moronic convergence through the tea parties.

Found something. Uploaded by Youtube user: livemusic.

His description:

January 6, 2010 - As if a restaurant’s shrine to a mass murderer and featured menu items in the name of the diabolical traitor to America weren’t enough, George Bush Sr. himself arrived when I was eating lunch with friends. Although I’m aware of many of his countless crimes against humanity, my mind went blank when it came to speaking out. It’s a wonderful thought for me to imagine these killers being scolded each and every time they appear in public.

Truther/Ron Paul/Alex Jones type.

696 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:43:00pm

re: #688 Dark_Falcon

One of my best friends from college, someone I love, someone I sweat blood with until 4 in the morning at Cory Hall on the Berkeley campus almost went LaRouche. Fucking astounded me. It hurt me. I didn’t get it. I don’t get it.

697 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:43:11pm

re: #660 Rightwingconspirator

At risk of wishful thinking-Perfect let all the whack job Theocons leave the Republicans and start their Tea party. Get their butts kicked like Perot’s party. Then lets see what the electorate has to say about moderate Republicans running for office.

Heh. I’ve been saying that for ages.

I wouldn’t have a problem voting for a moderate, sane, pro-science, pro-intellectual Republican. Unfortunately, they really don’t exist in the modern GOP, since the theocrats and socons have a stranglehold on the party mechanisms. I’d personally love to see the hard right and the Tea Party folks get up and leave the GOP for good, and take their agenda with them.

698 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:44:01pm

re: #691 Jimmah

He did a taste test in the local town on one show between his own organically reared chicken and the local supermarkets standard produce from the ‘no questions asked’ range. Although he clearly was rooting for the organic stuff, the results of the test were 50/50, with no overall preference. I was impressed that he was honest in presenting those results.

I saw that one. He caught a lot of shit for that. People were accusing him of promoting his own products. Hugh has actually been quite influential to me and I made the switch to free range chicken and eggs after watching Hugh’s Chicken Run and Jamie’s Fowl Dinners. It’s not that expensive here in the states if you shop around a bit. The eggs taste the same but I can definitely taste a difference in the chicken.

699 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:45:07pm

re: #696 Olsonist

One of my best friends from college, someone I love, someone I sweat blood with until 4 in the morning at Cory Hall on the Berkeley campus almost went LaRouche. Fucking astounded me. It hurt me. I didn’t get it. I don’t get it.


I know the feeling.
A good friend of mine gets glassy- eyed over Ron Paul.

700 avanti  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:45:27pm

re: #678 Slumbering Behemoth

Some folks just couldn’t get past the fact that Avanti is dirty, commie, democrap./

He shares his opinion on a car? Both boots, right down his throat.

I’m not dirty, I shower once a month even if I don’t need it.

701 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:45:34pm

re: #690 freetoken

Yes, I know, they’ve been around. However, as their print business fades, and they turn to the internet, their internet presence is beginning to smell more and more like the “Examiner” sites.

They’ve gone the way of many locals - opened an “anything goes” opinion blog section, and they will take swill for that from anyone. They are teetering on edge of bankruptcy like many and need free fill …

702 avanti  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:46:01pm

re: #697 Lidane

Heh. I’ve been saying that for ages.

I wouldn’t have a problem voting for a moderate, sane, pro-science, pro-intellectual Republican. Unfortunately, they really don’t exist in the modern GOP, since the theocrats and socons have a stranglehold on the party mechanisms. I’d personally love to see the hard right and the Tea Party folks get up and leave the GOP for good, and take their agenda with them.

Amen.

703 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:46:04pm

re: #693 Rightwingconspirator

The child has an interesting halo, like a mandala. So unlike hers.

I’m just startled to learn this is a Hummel piece I’ve had for 15 years, and then to learn she’s world famous but her prints aren’t what collectors want- they want the figures based on her drawings.

I guess it’s alright that’s its monetary worth is little, because it’s one of my favorite representations of Mary and Baby Jesus I’ve ever seen, so it’s priceless to me.

704 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:47:06pm

re: #699 Capitalist Tool

I know the feeling.
A good friend of mine gets glassy- eyed over Ron Paul.

I knew a lot of folks around here who got all loopy over Ron Paul. I never understood it.

I mean sure, on the surface he might sound reasonable if you don’t pay much attention, but if you really look at what he’s saying, he’s crazy. It’s like anyone giving Alex Jones credibility.

705 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:48:02pm

re: #703 Sharmuta

I’m just startled to learn this is a Hummel piece I’ve had for 15 years, and then to learn she’s world famous but her prints aren’t what collectors want- they want the figures based on her drawings.

I guess it’s alright that’s its monetary worth is little, because it’s one of my favorite representations of Mary and Baby Jesus I’ve ever seen, so it’s priceless to me.

Now that they’ve started producing the figurines in Chinese nunneries even the figurines don’t hold the value that they used to.

706 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:49:58pm

re: #705 Thanos

Now that they’ve started producing the figurines in Chinese nunneries even the figurines don’t hold the value that they used to.

I didn’t know that China has nunneries again.

707 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:50:05pm

re: #703 Sharmuta
The artist is new to me. But yeah actually I’m still looking at it. I can see why you would want to keep it regardless, hand it down to the family. Why let a treasure go?

708 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:50:53pm

re: #705 Thanos

Now that they’ve started producing the figurines in Chinese nunneries even the figurines don’t hold the value that they used to.

Hopefully these prints will eventually be seen for the treasures they are. I was looking at the official site for Berta Hummel, and she was a very good artist. I’m surprised there’s no demand for these prints.

709 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:50:53pm

re: #698 Killgore Trout

I saw that one. He caught a lot of shit for that. People were accusing him of promoting his own products. Hugh has actually been quite influential to me and I made the switch to free range chicken and eggs after watching Hugh’s Chicken Run and Jamie’s Fowl Dinners. It’s not that expensive here in the states if you shop around a bit. The eggs taste the same but I can definitely taste a difference in the chicken.

I prefer free range generally just for the animal treatment aspect. It’s the organic bit I’m not too sold on as of yet.

710 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:51:04pm

re: #704 Lidane

Huffington Post had a link to a website that allowed you to look up the political donations made by individuals. So I spent an hour or so looking up everyone I could think of to see where they’d veered off to in the political travels. Apparently I hung with some future Paulians.

711 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:51:12pm

re: #641 Killgore Trout

Larouche supporter? Paulian?

George H.W. Bush Gets Verbally Roasted In Houston Restaurant

[Video]Tea Party!

Bush Sr. killed JFKennedy? Holy shit, it all makes sense now.
/

712 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:51:40pm

re: #697 Lidane
Could not say it better.
re: #704 Lidane
Just like Perot! Sounded great as long as you did not look too close like the VP pick.

713 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:51:47pm

re: #660 Rightwingconspirator

At risk of wishful thinking-Perfect let all the whack job Theocons leave the Republicans and start their Tea party. Get their butts kicked like Perot’s party. Then lets see what the electorate has to say about moderate Republicans running for office.

There are moderate Republicans in office. They’re called Democrats. Hell, even the blue-dogs are more conservative than Republicans of old like Nixon. If you do a side-by-side comparison of party platforms over the last 40 years, you’ll see that the GOP has swung way right of where it used to be, as has the Democratic party.

714 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:52:43pm

Night folks!

Youtube Video
715 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:52:55pm

re: #711 Slumbering Behemoth

Bush Sr. killed JFKennedy? Holy shit, it all makes sense now.
/

You saw that too? I just watched the uncut video. This guy is a full out Truthernut. Of course he adds “illustrations by David Dees.”

I need some brain bleach.

716 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:53:04pm

TEACHER ARRESTED IN NEW YORK

- A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a compass, a slide-rule and a calculator.

At a morning press conference, the Attorney General said he believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-Gebra movement. He did not identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction. ‘Al-Gebra is a problem for us’, the Attorney General said. ‘They derive solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of absolute values.’ They use secret code names like ‘X’ and ‘Y’ and refer to themselves as ‘unknowns’, but we have determined that they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country.

As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, ‘There are 3 sides to every triangle’. When asked to comment on the arrest, President Obama said, ‘If God had wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, he would have given us more fingers and toes.’

White House aides told reporters they could not recall a more intelligent or profound statement by the President.

It is believed that the Nobel Prize for Physiques will follow.

717 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:53:10pm

re: #713 darthstar

As has the Dem party? Huh. I would have thought that was just the executive branch. Interesting.

718 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:54:27pm

re: #703 Sharmuta

I’m just startled to learn this is a Hummel piece I’ve had for 15 years, and then to learn she’s world famous but her prints aren’t what collectors want- they want the figures based on her drawings.

I guess it’s alright that’s its monetary worth is little, because it’s one of my favorite representations of Mary and Baby Jesus I’ve ever seen, so it’s priceless to me.

Just don’t let windsagio’s brother get his hands on it. He’ll break it over your head!

I just read a post in the midday thread about a story of the brother breaking a picture of Jesus and the children over windsagio’s sister’s head. I think I got that right.

719 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:54:59pm

So I’m watching a Bollywood round-up from some online channel from India:

freedocast.com

Very 1950’s type of musicals.

720 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:55:17pm

re: #707 Rightwingconspirator

The artist is new to me. But yeah actually I’m still looking at it. I can see why you would want to keep it regardless, hand it down to the family. Why let a treasure go?

You’ve never heard of Hummel figurines? They are based of the drawings of Berta Hummel. I didn’t know much about her either until I decided to pop the back off that frame you can see in my pic. I looked up what I saw- “B. Hummel”, and I didn’t make the connection at first it was the same artist as the famous figurines. I’ll just say- you can learn a lot by popping off the back of old art and looking stuff up on the internet.

721 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:56:18pm

re: #719 freetoken

So I’m watching a Bollywood round-up from some online channel from India:

[Link: www.freedocast.com…]

Very 1950’s type of musicals.

I favorited your post. My sister is a fan of musicals, so I’ll check the link tomorrow.

722 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:56:58pm

re: #706 Dark_Falcon

I didn’t know that China has nunneries again.

ucanews.com

723 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:57:18pm

It’s my time to logoff and sleep. Been fun as always.

725 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:57:41pm

re: #721 Dark_Falcon

It’s a live broadcast of an Indian network… I have no idea what the program is that comes on next, or if it will be in English.

726 Randall Gross  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:58:43pm

Time for me to get some sleeps, g’nite all

Youtube Video
727 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:00:14pm

Those Bollywood musicals are so wonderfully over the top… like those 1950’s over-saturated Hollywood spectacles. Crappy acting, but good music and fancy sets.

728 freetoken  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:00:38pm

Oh, and sexy women, lots of sexy women…

729 TheMatrix31  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:01:14pm

re: #724 Racer X

He’s just butthurt, man.

/

730 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:01:24pm

re: #728 freetoken

Oh, and sexy women, lots of sexy women…

But do they have nice personalities? ;)

731 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:01:45pm

re: #722 Thanos

[Link: www.ucanews.com…]

Glad that some orders of nuns have survived there. Such orders provided invaluable service running orphanages, hospitals, and schools in places that otherwise would have lacked these things. Some orders of nuns have indeed behaved badly but overall, like the Catholic Church in general, Sisterhoods of nuns have been a force for good.

732 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:02:49pm

re: #729 TheMatrix31

He’s just butthurt, man.

/

Buyers remorse - it stings!

733 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:03:06pm

re: #717 Rightwingconspirator

As has the Dem party? Huh. I would have thought that was just the executive branch. Interesting.

Compared with the Democratic party of a few decades ago, this one is quite conservative…one of the joys of having an increasingly right-wing GOP…”left” keeps moving to the right so it doesn’t look too extreme.

734 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:03:18pm

Doomsday Clock to Change This Week

Youtube Video
735 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:03:47pm

re: #712 Rightwingconspirator

Just like Perot! Sounded great as long as you did not look too close like the VP pick.

I still think the best description of Ross Perot I ever read came from Hunter S. Thompson.

I don’t remember the exact quote since I don’t have the book it’s from anymore, but it was something about Perot being the greatest thing to happen to American politics since Nixon started drinking gin, because in both cases the political dialogue of the day was filled with gibberish that made the wrong people stand up and take notice and the right ones question their faith. I loved that. Heh.

736 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:03:54pm

re: #731 Dark_Falcon

Also, as a DePaul University graduate, the Sisters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul have special relevance to me.

737 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:05:09pm

re: #733 darthstar

Unfortunately that is true. Kerry is certainly to the right of where Nixon was. Hell, Nixon ended the Vietnam war.

738 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:07:20pm

re: #737 Olsonist

Unfortunately that is true. Kerry is certainly to the right of where Nixon was. Hell, Nixon ended the Vietnam war.

Must disagree. Kerry’s long history of favoring the other side in confrontations with America’s enemies will always keep him on the far left.

739 Silvergirl  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:08:11pm

re: #720 Sharmuta

You’ve never heard of Hummel figurines? They are based of the drawings of Berta Hummel. I didn’t know much about her either until I decided to pop the back off that frame you can see in my pic. I looked up what I saw- “B. Hummel”, and I didn’t make the connection at first it was the same artist as the famous figurines. I’ll just say- you can learn a lot by popping off the back of old art and looking stuff up on the internet.

I went to a Hummel museum in New Braunsfels, Texas several years ago. I was along for the ride and wouldn’t have chosen to go on my own (my mother collects the things), but it was kind of interesting after all. They showed a film of the nun.

I found it hysterical in About Schmidt, when Jack Nicholson was sitting on top of his motor home with the candles and the Hummels.

740 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:08:15pm

re: #738 Dark_Falcon

Must disagree. Kerry’s long history of favoring the other side in confrontations with America’s enemies will always keep him on the far left.

Didn’t he get injured fighting AGAINST the Viet Cong?

741 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:08:35pm

re: #724 Racer X

Jack Cafferty Rips Obama on Failed Openness Pledge: ‘Just Another Lie Told for Political Expediency’

[Video]Fox News Lies!

Wait, CNN?

Well, here comes the “I hope he changes watch” again. Happens with every president. That is, campaign promises are broken and then those that supported the particular candidate moves on to “I hope he changes.”

I was talking to my sister two weeks ago. She’s rather left. Santa Cruz left. She’s not happy at all with what’s been going on from the White House from her perspective.

742 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:09:01pm

re: #737 Olsonist

Unfortunately that is true. Kerry is certainly to the right of where Nixon was. Hell, Nixon ended the Vietnam war.

Whereas Kerry lobbied for our enemies. What a wingnut!

743 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:09:14pm

re: #661 Sharmuta

And they can sound just like an anti-Israel rightie, which is why it’s long been held here that the far-right and far-left meet at Jew hate.

Among a great many other things, it appears.

744 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:09:53pm

re: #738 Dark_Falcon

Must disagree. Kerry’s long history of favoring the other side in confrontations with America’s enemies will always keep him on the far left.

Kerry is nowhere near far left, even when he ran in 2004. If you want far left, look no further than Nader, or Bernie Sanders, or Kucinich and Gravel. Kerry is firmly an establishment, middle of the road Democrat. He just happened to be a lousy candidate for President with a terrible choice of running mate.

745 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:10:33pm

I just got home from dinner (Lavanda in Palo Alto) where I saw a man frantically waving his hands in front of the paper towel dispenser in the bathroom, before finally explaining to him that it was one of those fancy dispensers where you actually had to pull the paper out with your fingers.

The miracles of modern technology, and how quickly they change our ability to function without them.

746 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:10:37pm

I kinda want to but that pre-owned BMW now.

747 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:12:08pm

re: #746 Racer X

I kinda want to but that pre-owned BMW now.

Yes, but does she come with leather?

748 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:12:19pm

John effen Kerry is a Right Winger?

*looks around*

You gotta be shitting me?

749 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:12:52pm

re: #744 Lidane

Kerry is nowhere near far left, even when he ran in 2004. If you want far left, look no further than Nader, or Bernie Sanders, or Kucinich and Gravel. Kerry is firmly an establishment, middle of the road Democrat. He just happened to be a lousy candidate for President with a terrible choice of running mate.

You need to add the a category for ‘lunatic left’, that leaves Kerry far left as the notch before.

750 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:13:08pm

re: #747 darthstar

Yes, but does she come with leather?

I’m visualizing that right now.

751 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:13:20pm

re: #724 Racer X

Jack Cafferty Rips Obama on Failed Openness Pledge: ‘Just Another Lie Told for Political Expediency’


[Video]Fox News Lies!

Wait, CNN?

Politifact keeps a running total of Obama campaign promises, rating them “kept”, “broken”, stalled, or the like.

politifact.com

Highly useful, imo, no matter what side of the partisan divide you’re on or whether you like Obama or not.

752 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:13:34pm

re: #742 Racer X

Whereas Kerry lobbied for our enemies. What a wingnut!

Which enemies would those be? I think we’ve had this argument before. Kerry as a Senator in a republic is free to visit and represent the US. As did McCain and company in visiting Saddam Hussein.

753 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:14:25pm

re: #748 Racer X

Nah…Kerry’s a moderate democrat. Nobody’s accusing him of being a right winger…in 2004 he was “The most liberal Senator the world had ever seen”(more liberal than Ted Kennedy, if you believed the campaign commercials). In 2008, that honor was bestowed upon Barack Obama. Funny how Kerry, who was still in the Senate, lost that title simply by not running for President.

754 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:14:32pm

re: #752 Olsonist

Which enemies would those be? I think we’ve had this argument before. Kerry as a Senator in a republic is free to visit and represent the US. As did McCain and company in visiting Saddam Hussein.

Un.
Fucking.
Real.

755 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:14:56pm

re: #565 Bagua

They were caught with their pants down because of all the warmist propaganda.

Say what?

756 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:15:08pm

re: #748 Racer X

John effen Kerry is a Right Winger?

*looks around*

You gotta be shitting me?

Nixon too, he’s to the left of Kerry too.

Also, Blue will hitherto be referred to as wet.

757 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:15:50pm

re: #739 Silvergirl

I didn’t know she was a nun, so that was very interesting.

758 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:15:50pm

re: #746 Racer X

I kinda want to but that pre-owned BMW now.

Wow, that’s quite an ad. Honestly, I kinda like the idea of not being First.

759 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:16:45pm

re: #749 Bagua

You need to add the a category for ‘lunatic left’, that leaves Kerry far left as the notch before.

The guy is married to a billionaire. It’s not in his financial interest to be on the far left, or anywhere near the lunatic fringe. He’s as establishment and middle of the road as they come.

I’ll concede that he was a terrible choice in 2004, and that Edwards was a sleaze even back then, but to call John Kerry a member of the far left or lunatic fringe is absurd. I know folks on the far left and they hated Kerry and voted for Nader because Kerry wasn’t liberal enough for them.

760 TheMatrix31  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:18:01pm

re: #759 Lidane

Kerry Most Liberal Senator In 2003

761 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:18:25pm

re: #751 iceweasel

Politifact keeps a running total of Obama campaign promises, rating them “kept”, “broken”, stalled, or the like.

[Link: www.politifact.com…]

Highly useful, imo, no matter what side of the partisan divide you’re on or whether you like Obama or not.

Useful. But you know how it goes. When pet campaign promise is broken that usually bodes poorly. I think the way things are going with the public option that will have a seriously negative impact with a certain voting demographic. While technically that may not fall on the president, the average person will blame the president. Happens all the time regardless of the president.

762 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:19:18pm

re: #753 darthstar

Nah…Kerry’s a moderate democrat. Nobody’s accusing him of being a right winger…in 2004 he was “The most liberal Senator the world had ever seen”(more liberal than Ted Kennedy, if you believed the campaign commercials). In 2008, that honor was bestowed upon Barack Obama. Funny how Kerry, who was still in the Senate, lost that title simply by not running for President.

Funny how Obama isn’t a fascist for keeping the same policies as the fascist GWB.

763 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:19:39pm

re: #760 TheMatrix31

Kerry Most Liberal Senator In 2003

re: #748 Racer X

John effen Kerry is a Right Winger?

*looks around*

You gotta be shitting me?

GMTA

764 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:19:39pm

John Kerry. Is he on the left, on the right?

Kinda sounds like trying to pick up a turd from the clean end to me.

765 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:20:03pm

re: #760 TheMatrix31

Kerry Most Liberal Senator In 2003

And Barack Obama just happened to win that when he ran for President too.

I never bought into that “most liberal Senator” bullshit. It was obviously meant as a political talking point, not a statement of reality, since it ignored the actual Socialist in the Senate, Bernie Sanders.

766 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:20:32pm

re: #762 Sharmuta

Funny how Obama isn’t a fascist for keeping the same policies as the fascist GWB.

Yep. That’s the problem with gross partisan labels. They make everybody look like hypocrites when they don’t apply them equally to both parties.

767 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:20:39pm

re: #759 Lidane

Well its all quite open for discussion as to the precise label to put on Kerry, I can think of a few others. Certainly well out there in Left field somewhere. Didn’t the media used to give him a one the 10 most liberal, or some such designation?

768 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:21:31pm

re: #761 Gus 802

Useful. But you know how it goes. When pet campaign promise is broken that usually bodes poorly. I think the way things are going with the public option that will have a seriously negative impact with a certain voting demographic. While technically that may not fall on the president, the average person will blame the president. Happens all the time regardless of the president.

“Read my lips”

769 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:21:41pm

re: #764 Slumbering Behemoth

John Kerry. Is he on the left, on the right?

Kinda sounds like trying to pick up a turd from the clean end to me.

Well, Kerry is certainly a turd. That much is certain. He’s a pompous ass who lied about his comrades in Vietnam, lied about US efforts in Iraq, and wanted to visit Iran for the purpose of proposing our surrender. Turd only begins to cover it.

770 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:21:43pm

re: #766 darthstar

Yep. That’s the problem with gross partisan labels. They make everybody look like hypocrites when they don’t apply them equally to both parties.

So… we can start calling Obama a fascist? ;p

771 iceweasel  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:22:00pm

re: #761 Gus 802

Useful. But you know how it goes. When pet campaign promise is broken that usually bodes poorly. I think the way things are going with the public option that will have a seriously negative impact with a certain voting demographic. While technically that may not fall on the president, the average person will blame the president. Happens all the time regardless of the president.

Oh yeah. Completely agree. The politifact site is useful because they’ll give an indepth explanation of each promise, the action taken (or not) on it, and an explanation of why they’ve rated it as they have. For the level of detail and accuracy I haven’t seen a similar site.
And you’re absolutely right about the fall-out over the public option too. A certain segment of the left has gone completely bonkers over it. I got an email from Jane Hamsher’s action list just this morning, a particularly crazy one I thought. (and i supported the public option)
I’ll post it in a bit when I’m back from saying goodnight to Jimmah, maybe.

772 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:22:10pm

Good night, all.
PLEASE be nice to each other.
You are all you have, to be with.
And, for the MOSt part, we listen to each other here.
Or, at least we do try!

So, be kind, understand that the other fellow is a passionate as you are.
Present your facts, or prepare for your beating.
Hang in there, tomorrow is another day.
And, it WILL be better.
If for no other reason, THAN I SAY SO.
LOL!

773 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:23:19pm

re: #769 Dark_Falcon

Well, Kerry is certainly a turd. That much is certain. He’s a pompous ass who lied about his comrades in Vietnam, lied about US efforts in Iraq, and wanted to visit Iran for the purpose of proposing our surrender. Turd only begins to cover it.

I kept pounding on that little green plus thing, but it only registered one upding. Sorry man.

774 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:23:49pm

re: #770 Sharmuta

So… we can start calling Obama a fascist? ;p

Only if you want to wear a teabag on your hat and follow Rush Limbaugh with the conviction of an apostle. Far better to try and look at the big picture and recognize the good and the bad in our leadership. It’ll help picking better leaders going forward.

775 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:24:06pm

re: #767 Bagua

Well its all quite open for discussion as to the precise label to put on Kerry, I can think of a few others. Certainly well out there in Left field somewhere. Didn’t the media used to give him a one the 10 most liberal, or some such designation?

No idea. I didn’t even vote for Kerry, because really, voting Democratic in Texas back in 2004 was pointless since the state was a lock for Bush (I voted Libertarian that year, if I remember right), but I knew he was nowhere near the far left ideologue that the GOP tried to turn him into.

Seriously. The guy’s middle of the road. He’s also stinking rich because of his own fortune and the one he married into. It’s not in his interest to be a radical anything.

776 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:24:34pm

re: #774 darthstar

It was a joke.

777 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:24:42pm

re: #773 Racer X

I kept pounding on that little green plus thing, but it only registered one upding. Sorry man.

Thanks anyways. Charles doesn’t give me a multiple vote per person option, even though I’m from Chicago. ;)

778 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:24:58pm

If Political Parties Threw Actual Parties.

779 darthstar  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:27:09pm

re: #776 Sharmuta

I know. But it never hurts to remind people of the image they portray when they say really off the wall shit like “Fascist!” just because they don’t agree with the president 100%. Like those idiots in 2004 who wore purple band-aids (mocking all purple heart recipients in the process) just because they wanted to make fun of Kerry’s purple heart. Stupidity and herd mentality.

780 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:27:17pm

re: #760 TheMatrix31

Kerry Most Liberal Senator In 2003

This is from Fact Check regarding 2003:

The Journal did rank Kerry the most liberal senator for 2003, but it’s also true that Kerry missed 37 of the 62 votes on which the ranking was based due to his campaign schedule. So the Journal assigned Kerry a score only on economic policy for that year — “a perfect liberal score,” in fact. That was based on 19 Kerry votes, though he still missed 13 others on economic policy. The Journal didn’t rank Kerry’s votes on social issues or foreign policy for 2003 because he cast so few votes on those issues, but noted that he “consistently took the liberal view within the Senate” when he did vote on those issues.

To call Kerry the “most liberal man in the Senate” based on a single year’s rating is simply incorrect, however. Over his entire career, the Journal rates Kerry the 11th most liberal Senator. It’s doubtful that Kerry would have qualified for the “most liberal” label even during his first Senate term, when was rated #1 for three of the six years: 1986, 1988, and 1990. In each of those years Kerry actually tied for the “most liberal” rating, sharing it with as many as five other senators.

If you look at the 2007 ratings from National Journal you’ll see that Kerry was rated 20th most liberal.

781 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:27:21pm

re: #778 Slumbering Behemoth

If Political Parties Threw Actual Parties.

Oh man. I think I’ll stay home. lol

782 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:27:47pm

re: #769 Dark_Falcon

He’s a pompous ass who lied about his comrades in Vietnam, lied about US efforts in Iraq, and wanted to visit Iran for the purpose of proposing our surrender.

Care to explain any of this?

783 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:28:06pm

re: #780 Gus 802

If you look at the 2007 ratings from National Journal you’ll see that Kerry was rated 20th most liberal.

Hardly qualifies him for title of “right winger”.

784 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:28:27pm

re: #777 Dark_Falcon

Thanks anyways. Charles doesn’t give me a multiple vote per person option, even though I’m from Chicago. ;)

Though there was quite a bit of support for the notion of rule by those who fancy themselves elites earlier.

785 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:28:50pm

re: #783 Sharmuta

Hardly qualifies him for title of “right winger”.

No, of course not.

786 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:28:52pm

re: #772 Floral Giraffe

For those getting overheated, I recommend crayons and markers.

787 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:31:17pm

re: #783 Sharmuta

Hardly qualifies him for title of “right winger”.

Of course that puts him to the right of Nixon.

/

788 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:33:17pm

re: #787 Bagua

Of course that puts him to the right of Nixon.

/

Which is a strange sort of distinction, since Nixon is to the left of Ward Churchill.

789 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:33:20pm

re: #786 Slumbering Behemoth

For those getting overheated, I recommend crayons and markers.

Crayons and markers are awesome, but if you really want to get trippy, Yo Gabba Gabba is where it’s at:

Youtube Video

Hehe. ;)

790 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:35:21pm

re: #789 Lidane

Oh dude. Racer X is so screwed.

791 Bagua  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:35:33pm

re: #788 Slumbering Behemoth

Which is a strange sort of distinction, since Nixon is to the left of Ward Churchill.

Good point. I think I’m beginning to clock on.

792 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:36:32pm

re: #788 Slumbering Behemoth

Which is a strange sort of distinction, since Nixon is to the left of Ward Churchill.

And Churchill’s to the right of Ron Paul.

793 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:36:34pm

re: #782 Olsonist

Care to explain any of this?

He famously gave testimony to a Senate Panel in which he spread outrageous lies about the conduct of American forces in Vietnam. He made another installment in that same meme in the way he tried to apply Abu Ghraib as the template of US actions in Iraq. For Iran, I admit that I’m guessing, butKerry has never advocated for forceful American action abroad.

Note: Forceful action does not always equate to military action.

794 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:37:46pm

re: #793 Dark_Falcon

He famously gave testimony to a Senate Panel in which he spread outrageous lies about the conduct of American forces in Vietnam. He made another installment in that same meme in the way he tried to apply Abu Ghraib as the template of US actions in Iraq. For Iran, I admit that I’m guessing, butKerry has never advocated for forceful American action abroad.

Note: Forceful action does not always equate to military action.

Winter Soldier Investigation

795 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:39:18pm

re: #794 Gus 802

Winter Soldier Investigation

Thank you for reminding me about that. That was another parcel of lies that Kerry helped put together. You don’t have to be conservative to think John Forbes Kerry a complete asshole.

796 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:39:44pm

10 Gardening Resolutions for the New Year
I’m particularly fond of #3, Keeping a journal. I’ve started a journal of handwritten notes with dates of when seeds are started, when they spout. I’m even doing my own illustrations. It does me good to sit with my plants long enough to make a sketch.

797 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:42:11pm

re: #795 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for reminding me about that. That was another parcel of lies that Kerry helped put together. You don’t have to be conservative to think John Forbes Kerry a complete asshole.

Yeah, I wasn’t too happy about that. Not at all. I know it happened decades ago but it rattled my cage in 2004.

798 Racer X  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:45:06pm

re: #790 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh dude. Racer X is so screwed.

Amateurs.


NSFW

/in fact - don’t click.

799 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:45:11pm

re: #793 Dark_Falcon

So where did he lie in his Senate testimony regarding Vietnam? We do know he was there and we do know he was wounded there. This sounds like Swiftboating to me.

800 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:51:20pm

re: #798 Racer X

Amateurs.

NSFW

/in fact - don’t click.

Ha! That’s awesome. I love that one. I’m also twisted enough to like this one:

Hostage: A Love Story

Also NSFW. Just fair warning. :)

801 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:53:23pm

re: #799 Olsonist

So where did he lie in his Senate testimony regarding Vietnam? We do know he was there and we do know he was wounded there. This sounds like Swiftboating to me.

He said that our forces “ravaged the countryside in the manner of Genghis Khan”, which was a outright lie. The US did not engage in a campaign of mass slaughter and desolation. American troops built improvements wherever they went (just as they did in WWII and still do in Iraq and Afghanistan), and when we destroyed buildings, we paid to replace them. Kerry lied, don’t doubt it.

802 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:58:31pm

re: #801 Dark_Falcon

He said that our forces “ravaged the countryside in the manner of Genghis Khan”, which was a outright lie. The US did not engage in a campaign of mass slaughter and desolation. American troops built improvements wherever they went (just as they did in WWII and still do in Iraq and Afghanistan), and when we destroyed buildings, we paid to replace them. Kerry lied, don’t doubt it.

Is My Lai a lie or not?

Building improvements is one thing, I’m sure we did that. But you can replace buildings, you can’t replace people.

803 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:00:23pm

re: #801 Dark_Falcon

He said that our forces “ravaged the countryside in the manner of Genghis Khan”, which was a outright lie. The US did not engage in a campaign of mass slaughter and desolation. American troops built improvements wherever they went (just as they did in WWII and still do in Iraq and Afghanistan), and when we destroyed buildings, we paid to replace them. Kerry lied, don’t doubt it.

We carpet bombed with B52s and we sprayed the jungles with Agent Orange. My dad was there. He told me about the torture. I grew up reading Bernard Fall.

804 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:01:53pm

re: #801 Dark_Falcon

He said that our forces “ravaged the countryside in the manner of Genghis Khan”, which was a outright lie. The US did not engage in a campaign of mass slaughter and desolation. American troops built improvements wherever they went (just as they did in WWII and still do in Iraq and Afghanistan), and when we destroyed buildings, we paid to replace them. Kerry lied, don’t doubt it.

If he didn’t lie he made it sound like that’s all our soldiers were doing in Vietnam. His testimony led to the poor treatment that our men received upon return from Vietnam.

805 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:02:20pm

Soldiers do not make wars.

Politicians do.

806 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:02:46pm

re: #800 Lidane

“Wow, and I though I had a big pussy”.

807 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:04:00pm

re: #803 Olsonist

We carpet bombed with B52s and we sprayed the jungles with Agent Orange. My dad was there. He told me about the torture. I grew up reading Bernard Fall.

We did not carpet bomb villages, nor did we kill randomly.

re: #802 WindUpBird

Is My Lai a lie or not?

Building improvements is one thing, I’m sure we did that. But you can replace buildings, you can’t replace people.

My Lai really did happen, but in 7 years of major US ground involvement in Vietnam, that was the only time US forces did such a thing. And Lt. Cally was brought to trial and convicted for it, don’t forget that.

808 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:10:11pm

re: #807 Dark_Falcon

We did not carpet bomb villages, nor did we kill randomly.

It’s pretty hard to be precise with a 60s era B52. What sort of ‘intelligence’ did we have? Think then and think now. We had really nothing to go on. Remember this was essentially a civil war with little distinction between the good guys and the bad guys. We illegally carpet bombed Laos which was not even a third world country.

The great thing is that 40 years on we have normal relations with Vietnam.

809 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:11:17pm

Post war Vietnam deaths:

Rummel

* Vietnamese democide: 1,040,000 (1975-87)

Executions: 100,000
Camp Deaths: 95,000
Forced Labor: 48,000
Democides in Cambodia: 460,000
Democides in Laos: 87,000
Boat People: 500,000 deaths (50% not blamed on the Vietnamese govt.)

Deaths Caused by North Vietnamese Communist Power Consolidation

An estimated 95,000 civilians died in the communist re-education camps, another 500,000 were involved in forced labor projects, which killed 48,000 civilians. Another 100,000 were executed. Finally, 400,000 boat people died while trying to flee Vietnam. This is 643,000 killed during the consolidation of communist rule. This consolidation ended around 1984, although boat people deaths occurred through 1988. A similar high death tool occurred in North Vietnam during 1950s when the Communists consolidated power in that geographic region.

Vietnamese boat people escaping the communist regime in Vietnam:

United States - 823,000
Australia and Canada - 137,000 each
France - 96,000
Germany - 40,000
United Kingdom - 19,000

810 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:13:34pm

Back to Schmidt, for a moment. He got savaged by Palin in her book, so it’s hard to see these statements as anything but payback. It’s also hard to take them seriously, for the same reason. Same thing goes for Palin’s original snark, which seems to be more sour grapes over losing than anything else.

In any case, these “You’re a doo-doo head!” - “No- you’re a doo-doo head!” exchanges always strike me as wearying and meaningless. Although it’s vaguely interesting to watch some latch onto them and proclaim them to be gospel truth because they happen to match the reader’s political opinion, without so much as a shred of supporting evidence.

811 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:14:49pm

re: #810 SixDegrees

Yes, but I also think it was Schmidt who forced Palin on to McCain.

812 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:16:14pm

re: #808 Olsonist

It’s pretty hard to be precise with a 60s era B52. What sort of ‘intelligence’ did we have? Think then and think now. We had really nothing to go on. Remember this was essentially a civil war with little distinction between the good guys and the bad guys. We illegally carpet bombed Laos which was not even a third world country.

The great thing is that 40 years on we have normal relations with Vietnam.

The areas carpet bombed were largely uninhabited areas trough which the Ho Chi Mien Trail ran. Our bombing campaign was meant to shut down the North’s supply of men and arms to its forces in the South. And there were distinctions between the RVN and the Communist North: The commies had much broader lists of enemies (especially ‘class enemies’, which normally included school teachers) and they murdered such people both during and after the war in large numbers. The Communists were far more murderous than their opposition, corrupt though that opposition was.

I’ve got to get to sleep, but I will read this thread in the morning and respond to any replies.

813 Lidane  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:17:14pm

re: #805 Gus 802

Soldiers do not make wars.

Politicians do.

Youtube Video
814 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:17:22pm

re: #809 Gus 802

When we leave Iraq, I suppose we’ll see similar numbers. The Shiites and the Sunnis and the Kurds are all well armed.

815 Olsonist  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:18:19pm

re: #812 Dark_Falcon

Another time.

816 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:18:59pm

re: #812 Dark_Falcon

The areas carpet bombed were largely uninhabited areas trough which the Ho Chi Mien Trail ran. Our bombing campaign was meant to shut down the North’s supply of men and arms to its forces in the South. And there were distinctions between the RVN and the Communist North: The commies had much broader lists of enemies (especially ‘class enemies’, which normally included school teachers) and they murdered such people both during and after the war in large numbers. The Communists were far more murderous than their opposition, corrupt though that opposition was.

I’ve got to get to sleep, but I will read this thread in the morning and respond to any replies.

And don’t forget the constraints and the Christmas Truce that led to a traffic jam on the Ho Chi Min Trail as the NV did not abide by said truce. It was a complicated war.

Later DF.

817 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:21:24pm

re: #814 Olsonist

When we leave Iraq, I suppose we’ll see similar numbers. The Shiites and the Sunnis and the Kurds are all well armed.

I don’t know. I’m more optimistic about Iraq. Things have been relatively stable even considering our continued presence there. We’ll have to wait and see.

I know humans are hell bent on killing each other from time to time. When I consider our own murders in this country. Sometimes I add up all the people that were murdered on our soil since 9/11. Rough guess is over 250,000 people.

818 Gus  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:23:20pm

re: #817 Gus 802

Might be close to 150,000 not 250,000.

819 SixDegrees  Mon, Jan 11, 2010 11:30:22pm

re: #188 reine.de.tout

Some folks think it’s worth the effort to try to reach out and inform or “raise the consciousness” of those who are uninformed, rather than simply viewing them all as “mentally addled”, and that such efforts are not akin to “coddling the stupid”.

You and friends will ding me down for this, and be my guest, have at it - I see this superior elitism as similar to racism and any other “ism”. Unnecessary, unprovoked, irrational hatred. And wrong.

Ludwig has had his smarmy, absolutist rantings pointed out to him before on numerous threads and topics. It’s not going to do any good. Over the next couple of days, he’ll work himself into a manic tirade, then collapse and disappear for a while to nurse his resulting depression. It’s an illness, and there really isn’t much point in bringing facts to bear, since the problem doesn’t respond well to rational argument. Part of Ludwig’s particular delusion, in fact, is an unshakable belief that he is being completely objective and rational at all times, even when spraying spittle in all directions, as here.

820 Lidane  Tue, Jan 12, 2010 12:10:58am

re: #806 Slumbering Behemoth

For realsies. ;)

821 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 12, 2010 6:15:00am

re: #733 darthstar

Compared with the Democratic party of a few decades ago, this one is quite conservative…one of the joys of having an increasingly right-wing GOP…”left” keeps moving to the right so it doesn’t look too extreme.

Actually I think (I hope, I hope) we democrats keep moving right to make ourselves look more appealing to many of the people on sites like this one who want to vote for conservative principles while at the same time voting for people who aren’t coo-coo crazy pants.

822 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 12, 2010 7:23:05am

Good Morning and Happy Tuesday! Anything exciting going on this morning?

823 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 12, 2010 7:30:22am

Is anyone awake out there?

824 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 12, 2010 7:37:23am

re: #823 Dragon_Lady

Is anyone awake out there?

I’m here, although I’m just checking messages. This is a dead thread. Check out the one labeled “Beach 56” for current discussion.


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