Tea Partiers? Where? Oh, You Mean The Ones in the Front Row?

Politics • Views: 4,341

At his victory party, supporters of Scott Brown wave the New Flag of the Second American Revolution.

And people tried to tell me Brown wasn’t sailing on the seas of tea.

(Hat tip: KT.)

UPDATE at 1/20/10 2:38:01 pm:

Also see

UPDATE at 1/20/10 2:47:30 pm:

And in case you’re tempted to believe there were just two of these flags at the party, see here and here.

Jump to bottom

867 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:27:27pm

Oh dear, not an auspiscious start to his career as a senator is it?

2 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:28:45pm

well it was Boston home of the original after all.

3 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:28:52pm

I think it was pretty obvious who was going to attach themselves to the campaign.

4 pvdl1969  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:29:12pm

Maybe he can put one of those flags on his car.

5 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:29:34pm

re: #4 pvdl1969

Maybe he can put one of those flags on his car.

truck

6 baier  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:30:19pm

re: #5 brookly red

truck

Butt

7 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:30:23pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well he can't stop them from supporting him, but he can make it clear that he doesn't endorse their insanity.

The question is, will he?

8 Ben Hur  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:30:30pm

Nice try.

9 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:31:21pm

re: #7 Bubblehead II

Well he can't stop them from supporting him, but he can make it clear that he doesn't endorse their insanity.

The question is, will he?

It'd be a nice concession prize as the loosing party, of course if he does he's going to get primaried by someone who doesn't pretty soon if other trends I've seen hold steady.

10 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:31:32pm

re: #5 brookly red

truck

Pick-up truck.

/It's code you know.

//

11 torrentprime  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:31:46pm

A pretty awesome example of IOKIYAR. Can you imagine if Obama started bringing modified American flags and encouraging his supporters to use them?

Oh, wait.

12 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:32:14pm

re: #10 Gus 802

Pick-up truck.

/It's code you know.

//

/and there are no black people in the photo either...

13 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:32:27pm

re: #7 Bubblehead II

Well he can't stop them from supporting him, but he can make it clear that he doesn't endorse their insanity.

The question is, will he?

At this point, he doesn't have to. The real question is what he will do as a Senator.

14 freetoken  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:32:32pm

re: #8 Ben Hur

Nice try.

... by the Tea Partiers to extend their influence over the GOP. Not one but two flag wavers in that picture.

As I mentioned last night, maybe we (as a nation) will be fortunate and Brown will turn out really to be a "RINO" at heart.

16 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:34:53pm

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

At this point, he doesn't have to. The real question is what he will do as a Senator.

exactly...the rest is irrelevant at this point

17 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:35:08pm

There's also this:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

18 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:35:21pm

re: #7 Bubblehead II

Well he can't stop them from supporting him, but he can make it clear that he doesn't endorse their insanity.

The question is, will he?

Time will tell. He seems to be off to a moderate start.

So far, I haven't read or listened to any analysis of the election in the mainstream media that makes mention of the TPers, let alone credits them with Brown's win. If there's one out there, I'd like to hear about it, particularly if it can detail the actual difference TP support played, if any.

19 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:35:23pm

The extreme right had the wind knocked out of its sails by the debacle in upstate new York, now they are back at it with a vengance and are not going to ease up until Sarah Palin is in the White House.

20 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:36:03pm

at last he didn't have posters of Che in his campaign offices

21 badger1970  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:36:31pm

That's not the Scott Brown I know //

22 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:36:57pm

re: #20 albusteve

at last he didn't have posters of Che in his campaign offices

/now THAT was a revolution...

23 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:37:10pm

re: #19 ralphieboy

The extreme right had the wind knocked out of its sails by the debacle in upstate new York, now they are back at it with a vengance and are not going to ease up until Sarah Palin is in the White House.

what a chipper thought...Pres Palin!....yikes!

24 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:37:19pm

re: #20 albusteve

Isn't a flag being flow right in front of your face a bit more important?

25 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:37:32pm

re: #20 albusteve

at last he didn't have posters of Che in his campaign offices

I like cheese.

26 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:37:59pm

re: #24 Obdicut

Isn't a flag being flow right in front of your face a bit more important?

no

27 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:38:25pm

re: #26 albusteve

Can you explain your reasoning?

28 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:38:26pm

re: #20 albusteve

at last he didn't have posters of Che in his campaign offices

At what point does a communist symbol become so over marketed that it looses all political value?

29 cliffster  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:38:36pm

Clearly, Scott Brown is a crazy right-wing lunatic.

30 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:38:53pm

Scott Brown used the wave of discontent in Mass to ride into the Senate, and the Tea Partiers gave him a push. The time to grill him about Tea Party support was before the election, which the Dems failed to do. At this point, they were just another voting block he used to get elected. His actions will say how much he agrees with them.

Beck hates him, so he can't be all bad right?

31 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:38:58pm

re: #27 Obdicut

Can you explain your reasoning?

yes, but I won't

32 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:39:23pm

re: #25 Jeff In Ohio

I like cheese.

I love lamp.

33 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:39:36pm

re: #28 jamesfirecat

At what point does a communist symbol become so over marketed that it looses all political value?

never I'd say

34 webevintage  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:39:47pm

re: #24 Obdicut

Isn't a flag being flow right in front of your face a bit more important?

Maybe he does not know what the silly things is. I had never seen one until today.

35 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:40:02pm

re: #28 jamesfirecat

At what point does a communist symbol become so over marketed that it looses all political value?

For some of us, never.

36 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:40:02pm

Scott Brown? Sonofabitch! I thought I was voting for James Brown!

37 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:40:08pm

re: #18 SixDegrees

Time will tell. He seems to be off to a moderate start.

I think this is inevitable. Regardless of the perceived sentiment of the populace (oh noes, stop the socialists now!), he's still a Senator from one of the most liberal states in the Union. As my pal Frank from Shutesbury, Ma. said yesterday - "Better 2 years of milquetoast then a lifetime of moldy bread"...or something like that. Maybe the Demotrcatic Party can get thier shit together...but I'm not holding my breath.

38 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:40:20pm

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

True, until he takes the Oath he isn't a Senator. But he should make it clear now, either directly or through his people, that these people and their insanity are not welcome at any of his functions.

In other words, he needs to be proactive in dealing with these people instead of reactive after he is sworn in.

Just my opinion.

39 torrentprime  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:40:31pm

re: #26 albusteve

no

Of course not. It's only an American symbol, and we know the right doesn't care about those. Especially when they're reduced in size and attached to a lapel by a pin.

40 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:40:41pm

re: #31 albusteve

Well, that'll show me.

re: #34 webevintage

I hope so. I hope he quickly condemns it. Or at least says something like "I'm glad people are excited, but those ain't mine." Even a weak distance would be nice.

41 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:40:45pm

re: #29 cliffster

Clearly, Scott Brown is a crazy right-wing lunatic.

Why is all these free people working together to shape there own futures is so scary to some folks.

42 torrentprime  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:40:54pm

re: #28 jamesfirecat

At what point does a communist symbol become so over marketed that it looses all political value?

As soon as a Republican gets caught with one.

43 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:40:59pm

re: #28 jamesfirecat

At what point does a communist symbol become so over marketed that it looses all political value?

We are all mindless, unthinking consumer drones, driven by our corporate masters. /

44 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:41:03pm

re: #28 jamesfirecat

Andy Warhol.

45 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:41:18pm

re: #14 freetoken

Not one but two flag wavers in that picture.

[Link: www.daylife.com...]


[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]


Hmmmm...do you detect a pattern?

46 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:41:26pm

re: #15 MandyManners

The SEIU is just as nutty in its own was as the Tea Party. I'll say this again-Of course the Tea Party backed the Republican. Anything else would be shocking. If Fiorina wins here in California against Tea Party candidate DeVore, they will back her against Boxer. Would that make Fiorina less moderate?

47 arethusa  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:41:30pm

re: #37 Jeff In Ohio

I think this is inevitable. Regardless of the perceived sentiment of the populace (oh noes, stop the socialists now!), he's still a Senator from one of the most liberal states in the Union. As my pal Frank from Shutesbury, Ma. said yesterday - "Better 2 years of milquetoast then a lifetime of moldy bread"...or something like that. Maybe the Demotrcatic Party can get thier shit together...but I'm not holding my breath.

Agreed. Brown probably won't be re-elected in 2012, MA being MA, but if he even wants a shot at it, he has to stay on the moderate path.

48 torrentprime  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:41:44pm

re: #41 brookly red

Why is all these free people working together to shape there own futures is so scary to some folks.

I don't know, but Rush said it was destroying America.

(You were talking about ACORN and MoveOn.org, weren't you?)

49 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:41:56pm

re: #18 SixDegrees

Would be interesting to see an analyst of their effect on the outcome of the election. But something tells me it was minimal.

50 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:42:01pm

re: #18 SixDegrees

Time will tell. He seems to be off to a moderate start.

So far, I haven't read or listened to any analysis of the election in the mainstream media that makes mention of the TPers, let alone credits them with Brown's win. If there's one out there, I'd like to hear about it, particularly if it can detail the actual difference TP support played, if any.

He does seem to be off to a moderate start, though there hasn't been much time, really, to evaluate him.

I was willing to wait and see what President Obama did and how he did it; and I would think a similar approach is due to this guy before deciding just how far right (or not) he is.

51 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:42:19pm

re: #34 webevintage

Maybe he does not know what the silly things is. I had never seen one until today.

I suggested that earlier, but apparently that's no excuse...Brown is gonna get smeared regardless, but we should see how he performs in office....I have my doubts about a military man wanting to over throw the govt if that's the insinuation....it all seeths with overthetopness imo

52 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:42:26pm

re: #43 SixDegrees

Disney Princesses.

For congress.

53 TampaKnight  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:42:26pm

Omg, his campaign must be full of operative racist tea party zealots!

:/

54 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:42:40pm

re: #33 albusteve

never I'd say

I disagree, damn I wish I remembered more from my modern philosophy class, but the gist of it is, there's a difference between a sign and a symbol. A sign confers meaning but it does so in an inarguable way "no left turns" "stop", a symbol on the other hand confers meaning as well, but what meaning it does is heavily based upon the predispositions of the person witnessing the symbol. Its entirely possible for symbols to loose their meaning when they no longer have any relivance related to the message they used to convey.

I think we need to ask what message someone who hangs a Chee poster on their wall is trying to convey the same way we need to ask those "II" flag people if they really want to launch armed insurection against the government.

55 freetoken  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:42:53pm

re: #38 Bubblehead II

He will be the most junior senator in the GOP caucus, but will punch above his seniority because of his new fame.

The Tea Partiers (and Beck et. al.) will turn on him once the Senate takes up immigration.

56 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:42:59pm

re: #40 Obdicut

I hope he quickly condemns it. Or at least says something like "I'm glad people are excited, but those ain't mine." Even a weak distance would be nice.


There were no American flags in the crowd. I'm pretty sure they were passing out the Second Revolutionary flag.

57 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:43:01pm

re: #35 reine.de.tout

For some of us, never.

Same with the Jordyptian scarves.

58 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:43:07pm

Brown is still green.

But his learning curve will be steep.

Hopefully he won't get into hot water.

59 torrentprime  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:43:35pm

re: #51 albusteve

I have my doubts about a military man wanting to over throw the govt if that's the insinuation...

The WingNutDaily article calling for a rebellion due to "the Obama problem" wasn't an insinuation.

60 freetoken  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:44:06pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

Hmmm...do you detect a pattern?

Is this an IQ test?

61 TampaKnight  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:44:14pm

PS I'm amused that seemingly no coverage is ever given to the fact that nearly EVERY Democratic candidate has influence and attendance from every power mongering union in the nation, who dwarf this tea party thing in terms of size AND influence.

If you don't believe me, just read up on the President cutting them a sweetheart exemption deal on health care.

62 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:44:15pm

re: #46 Rightwingconspirator

The SEIU is just as nutty in its own was as the Tea Party. I'll say this again-Of course the Tea Party backed the Republican. Anything else would be shocking. If Fiorina wins here in California against Tea Party candidate DeVore, they will back her against Boxer. Would that make Fiorina less moderate?

Not in my eyes.

63 arethusa  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:44:28pm

re: #54 jamesfirecat

It's an interesting question. But remember that the sign/symbol means different things to different people and groups. For lots of people, Che no longer has meaning...but seeing his face on a t-shirt or poster does to those who suffered as a result of his actions.

64 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:44:38pm

re: #48 torrentprime

I don't know, but Rush said it was destroying America.

(You were talking about ACORN and MoveOn.org, weren't you?)

No but the point is the same. Those 2 groups are not my favorites but they do have rights as long as they don't break the law... I am a democrat after all.

65 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:45:26pm

re: #63 arethusa

It's an interesting question. But remember that the sign/symbol means different things to different people and groups. For lots of people, Che no longer has meaning...but seeing his face on a t-shirt or poster does to those who suffered as a result of his actions.


You raise a reasonable point, I mean its like asking, at what point are the Tibetian Budhists allowed to have their good luck charm back?

66 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:45:52pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

There were no American flags in the crowd. I'm pretty sure they were passing out the Second Revolutionary flag.

maybe the flag is a metaphore...where are you getting this violent overthrow stuff from?

67 freetoken  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:46:05pm

re: #61 TampaKnight

As far as I can tell, most unions, the mainstream ones, are not calling for the overthrow of the country.

68 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:46:21pm

re: #66 albusteve

maybe the flag is a metaphore...where are you getting this violent overthrow stuff from?

A metaphore for what exactly?

69 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:46:22pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

Man. Where did all the flags come from?

Best case scenario: Someone made a quick buck, the people waving them don't know what they mean, and neither does Brown.

70 TampaKnight  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:46:54pm

re: #67 freetoken

As far as I can tell, most unions, the mainstream ones, are not calling for the overthrow of the country.

Why would they? They're being spoon fed whatever they want.

71 cliffster  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:46:57pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

Hmmm...do you detect a pattern?

I do detect a pattern lately. Maybe it should be called the Tea Scare

People in the audience are teabaggers! Right-wing racist insane bigot!

72 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:47:35pm

re: #65 jamesfirecat

You raise a reasonable point, I mean its like asking, at what point are the Tibetian Budhists allowed to have their good luck charm back?

what is Che's claim to fame...do you know?...it's not at all like your analogy imo

73 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:48:06pm

re: #55 freetoken

Beck already has.

74 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:48:46pm

re: #71 cliffster

You seriously don't have a problem with that flag being waved?

This is what the designer says:

After more thought, I realized there has been "TWO" times in history when "13" came together to change the course of history for all humanity: 1) The "Last Supper" . . . Jesus and the 12 disciples, which is why many considered 13 to be unlucky. However I don't believe it was unlucky. From this group of 13 came a faith built on a Foundation of LOVE . . . . 2) Then in the 1700s, 13 colonies worked together and wrote our Constitution framed in FREEDOM. With a foundation of LOVE, framed in FREEDOM a HOUSE of LIBERTY was built for all mankind, a House which can not and should not ever go into foreclosure! It was at that moment I realized the symbol of "II" and 13 stars could represent GOD and COUNTRY, which is really what we all must now fight for, to restore LIBERTY for all humanity. This flag inspires me, and I have no doubt Betsy Ross would approve us honoring her again, by bringing her flag out to help us fight again for LIBERTY!

75 freetoken  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:49:18pm

re: #73 Bubblehead II

Immigration is dividing line... it will separate the "TRUE true patriots" from the simple "true patriots".

76 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:49:25pm

re: #74 Obdicut

YIKES!

77 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:49:29pm

re: #68 jamesfirecat

A metaphore for what exactly?

for a new beginning, getting back to representative govt...reducing the size and roll of govt...just guesses...I think it's pretty harmless

78 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:49:50pm

re: #69 Obdicut

Man. Where did all the flags come from?

Best case scenario: Someone made a quick buck, the people waving them don't know what they mean, and neither does Brown.

No, I think every one knows what they stand for, revolution simply means change. Obama ran on change. Nowhere is violence implied... now if the flags had a ring of stars with a fist holding up a rifle THAT would change things.

79 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:50:44pm

re: #78 brookly red

What about the above quote from the designer? Anything about it strike you as dubious?

80 TampaKnight  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:50:45pm

I wonder if the left called Joh Lennon a racist anti-government hate monger when he sang about revolution.

81 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:51:02pm

re: #49 Bubblehead II

Would be interesting to see an analyst of their effect on the outcome of the election. But something tells me it was minimal.

Like I said, I haven't read a single analysis that gives the TPers any credit for Brown's win. I think the real reasons are quite complex, and his win simply can't be attributed to any one, single factor. There's the dismal state of the economy, which is working against Democrats; Democratic malfeasance in Kennedy's replacement by fiat rather than by special election, a law that was changed twice to suit Democratic interests; poor performance by Washington amidst an impression that it is dominated by hidebound incumbents; and, of course, Coakley's utterly dismal campaigning skills and the effect of having her past misdeed dragged out into the sunlight all at once. All of these conspired to sink a double-digit lead in very short order. Whatever role the TPers may have played, it seems to have been lost in the background noise.

As I noted several times over the last couple of weeks, though, it's no surprise to see the TPers glomming on to Brown's victory and using it to pump their own momentum. They seem to be following much the same strategy - and arc - as MoveOn! did, although it remains to be seen whether they'll have similar staying power.

82 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:51:49pm

re: #74 Obdicut

You seriously don't have a problem with that flag being waved?

This is what the designer says:

I see nothing there about a second revolution...fight for liberty, so what...that's a constant given

83 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:51:56pm

Thank you very much for posting this Charles. (And KT for finding the flag link)

84 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:51:57pm
85 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:52:15pm

re: #67 freetoken

You may be confusing their hyperbole with their actual desires. Suits the critics and the guilty by association quite well. Arguably, unfairly well. If we are going to expect every republican to refuse every dollar, every vote from the Tea Party, we must diminish any expectation of them winning office. That would suits the Dems just fine.

Poison pill anyone?

86 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:52:48pm

re: #50 reine.de.tout

He does seem to be off to a moderate start, though there hasn't been much time, really, to evaluate him.

I was willing to wait and see what President Obama did and how he did it; and I would think a similar approach is due to this guy before deciding just how far right (or not) he is.

Agreed. A lot of hard-core communists, not to mention those inflated scrotum guys, almost certainly voted for Obama. I doubt he's part of the needle-and-saline crowd, though.

87 cliffster  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:52:48pm

re: #74 Obdicut

Gosh, well I guess Scott Brown really is an insane homophobic racist then! Oh no!

88 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:53:21pm

Enjoy your populist, Massachussetts...

89 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:53:52pm

re: #86 SixDegrees

Ouch! Just the thought...

90 garhighway  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:53:56pm

re: #69 Obdicut

Man. Where did all the flags come from?

Best case scenario: Someone made a quick buck, the people waving them don't know what they mean, and neither does Brown.

So the best case scenario is that Brown and his supporters are both ignorant?

Interesting.

91 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:54:11pm

re: #87 cliffster

Can you please point to where I've called Brown an insane homophobic racist, then?

Or anything?

92 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:54:27pm

re: #87 cliffster

Gosh, well I guess Scott Brown really is an insane homophobic racist then! Oh no!

Apologizing for the American-Revolution-II flags, are we?

93 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:54:54pm

re: #79 Obdicut

What about the above quote from the designer? Anything about it strike you as dubious?

no...

94 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:55:11pm

re: #74 Obdicut

Forget the flag. Look at the policies the winners will endorse & support in office. The corporate campaign donors will overwhelm the Tea Party Donors.

95 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:55:13pm

re: #89 Rightwingconspirator

Ouch! Just the thought...

I never, ever want to be able to bounce a quarter off my scrotum.

96 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:55:23pm

re: #91 Obdicut

Can you please point to where I've called Brown an insane homophobic racist, then?

Or anything?

We still have people who want to distract us from the Teabaggers. Look over there! They weren't involved! Honest!

97 TampaKnight  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:56:02pm

It's amazing how one little stupid flag has suddenly becoming the entire talking point and reason that Brown won in the deep bluest state of the nation.

98 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:57:07pm

re: #75 freetoken

Immigration is dividing line... it will separate the "TRUE true patriots" from the simple "true patriots".

Please correct me if I am wrong in my interpretation.

TRUE true patriots = round up all illegals and deport them.

true patriots = lets gets some common sense reform passed and a route to legal immigration in place so these people are no longer a 3rd class of inhabitants in this Nation.

99 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:57:16pm

re: #96 WindUpBird

We still have people who want to distract us from the Teabaggers. Look over there! They weren't involved! Honest!

I don't think so...they are here to stay...and no doubt this Brown election is just the tricke before the flood of all kinds of conspiratorial nontroversies...I guess the Flag means whatever you want it to

100 Soap_Man  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:57:22pm

re: #97 TampaKnight

It's amazing how one little stupid flag has suddenly becoming the entire talking point and reason that Brown won in the deep bluest state of the nation.

The entire talking point? Not really. But it certainly is an interesting detail in the whole story, and worthy of discussion.

101 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:58:16pm

re: #93 brookly red

Really? What about this:

This flag symbolizes our fight for a LIMITED GOVERNMENT, THE RESTORATION OF OUR REPUBLIC and CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

Does the Republic need restoration? Did I miss the dissolution of the government at some point?

102 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:58:29pm

re: #93 brookly red

no...

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

How about their web URL: USREVOLUTION2 DOT COM.

No, not crazy at all! Not crazypants paranoid populism, they're all just totally rational, reasonable, God-fearing Americans. Who occasionally drop the N bomb on their signs and claim Obama is a Muslim.

103 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:59:31pm

re: #99 albusteve

I don't think so...they are here to stay...and no doubt this Brown election is just the tricke before the flood of all kinds of conspiratorial nontroversies...I guess the Flag means whatever you want it to

They are here to stay, and there are people here who want to pretend they don't have influence.

Is the influence of the Tea Partiers in the GOp a nontroversy?

104 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:00:05pm

re: #96 WindUpBird

We still have people who want to distract us from the Teabaggers. Look over there! They weren't involved! Honest!

You would make Joseph McCarthy so proud...

105 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:00:41pm

re: #92 WindUpBird

Apologizing for the American-Revolution-II flags, are we?

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institutions
Well, you know
You better free your mind instead

106 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:01:14pm

re: #101 Obdicut

Really? What about this:

Does the Republic need restoration? Did I miss the dissolution of the government at some point?

yes, I think you do...imo angling back towards federalsim and downsizing govt is the point...as far as Constitutional rights, there are legitimate complaints there as well I suppose...always need to be watchful of the feds

107 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:01:21pm

re: #96 WindUpBird

Which is why Brown must distance himself from these people now, not later, if he doesn't want the stigma of being associated with them to dog his time in the Senate. IMHO

108 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:01:59pm

re: #104 brookly red

Dude, that is so out of line.

Nobody is saying that anyone who is supported by the Tea Party movements should have their job taken away, be kept out of office, or anything else. People are saying that people shouldn't vote for them.

McCarthy ended careers, destroyed lives. Nobody here is suggesting that Brown be removed from office or in any way have anything done to him.

109 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:02:22pm

re: #97 TampaKnight

It's amazing how one little stupid flag has suddenly becoming the entire talking point and reason that Brown won in the deep bluest state of the nation.

The flag isn't the issue, the influence of the Tea Partiers is the issue. Which has been a major issue of LGF for months.

But please, feel free to spit on the work being done on this blog to expose the influence of these people in the GOP. Feel free to minimize that.


And nobody, certainly not me, mimimizes Brown's achievement. All you need to do is search for my posts to find where I gave him all due credit for running a fantastic campaign. But he had help from the ultra-populist side of the GOP, and you cannot ignore that.

110 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:02:26pm

re: #101 Obdicut

Really? What about this:

Does the Republic need restoration? Did I miss the dissolution of the government at some point?

no you merely implied it...

111 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:02:51pm

re: #110 brookly red

Implied what?

112 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:03:39pm

re: #104 brookly red

You would make Joseph McCarthy so proud...

Yes, I don't want insane populist teabaggers running a political party in my country, that makes me McCarthy.

I wonder who else on this blog that makes Joe McCarthy?

113 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:04:29pm

re: #103 WindUpBird

They are here to stay, and there are people here who want to pretend they don't have influence.

Is the influence of the Tea Partiers in the GOp a nontroversy?

no, not at all...it's a huge political development over the last year....the question is how the GOP wields this new club and what rather conservative voters are going to do about it

114 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:04:46pm

Flag. Pfffttt.

Its not like he palled around with a spiritual leader who spouts things like "Goddamn America!"

115 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:04:51pm

Who handed out the 100's of flags at the rally? That's what I want to know.

I'm sorry, I see the Tea Party as not being very patriotic at all. That those flags were being waved rather than the American flag should piss some real patriots off.

116 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:05:04pm

re: #97 TampaKnight

Thye flag is unimportant as of tomorrow.

re: #103 WindUpBird

If we want to look at undue influence we can go through interest groups top to bottom, left to right. Is the SEIU an undie influence in Sacramrnto and DC? Maybe. Plenty would deny that too right? It's all tit for tat baloney. Examine the policies of the primary winners. The big corporate donors will out influence the Tea Party every time.

117 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:05:34pm

re: #69 Obdicut

Man. Where did all the flags come from?

Best case scenario: Someone made a quick buck, the people waving them don't know what they mean, and neither does Brown.

So our best case scenario relies on Brown being ignorant, gotcha!

118 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:05:40pm

re: #74 Obdicut

You seriously don't have a problem with that flag being waved?

This is what the designer says:


What do you have against Betsy Ross? Some guy puts 11 on a betsy ross flag and you want to hyperventilate? Second, why recommend the Huffington piece when his underlying supporting piece shows the Huffington writer got it wrong?

[Link: theplumline.whorunsgov.com...]
and TPM, those teabagger patronizers, agrees it was wrong:
[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Your problem isn't with the flag, it's with the tea party support. Stick to that.

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:05:49pm

re: #108 Obdicut

Dude, that is so out of line.

Out of line implies he actually thought before posting it. I'm not giving him that credit. Probably more just I AM FRUSTRATED WITH THE BIRDIE

There's actually people here who defended the real Joe McCarthy! I certainly don't remember you speaking up then. :)

120 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:06:03pm

re: #109 WindUpBird

The flag isn't the issue, the influence of the Tea Partiers is the issue. Which has been a major issue of LGF for months.

But please, feel free to spit on the work being done on this blog to expose the influence of these people in the GOP. Feel free to minimize that.

And nobody, certainly not me, mimimizes Brown's achievement. All you need to do is search for my posts to find where I gave him all due credit for running a fantastic campaign. But he had help from the ultra-populist side of the GOP, and you cannot ignore that.

It appears to me the Tea Partiers have glommed onto Brown.

I read a National Review piece in support of Brown, and they had to twist themselves into knots to be able to write in support of him - so I was actually surprised to see any Tea Party support for him at all.

But it is not yet obvious or apparent to me that he subscribes to the tea party nonsense. I'm sure he was glad for whatever support he got, including their's - but I have a hard time believing that he could actually win an election in Massachusetts if he was hard-core tea-party nuts.

121 captdiggs  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:06:28pm

Very thin ice to demonize over.
Kind of like demonizing Obama because Code Pink loves him.

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:06:42pm

re: #120 reine.de.tout

They're Brown's Glommers.

123 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:06:50pm

re: #121 captdiggs

Very thin ice to demonize over.
Kind of like demonizing Obama because Code Pink loves him.

Except Code Pink DOESN'T like him.

124 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:07:04pm

re: #112 WindUpBird

Yes, I don't want insane populist teabaggers running a political party in my country, that makes me McCarthy.

I wonder who else on this blog that makes Joe McCarthy?

too bad, that may be what it comes down to...have to wait and see

125 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:07:08pm

re: #112 WindUpBird

Do you really think the Tea Baggers run the party? So, we can drop the old Republican=conniving energy interests then? Hard to have that both ways. The Tea Party is a bigger foil for the opposition than influence in the Republican Party.

126 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:07:13pm

re: #121 captdiggs

Very thin ice to demonize over.
Kind of like demonizing Obama because Code Pink loves him.

Code Pink does not love Obama, if I recall correctly.

127 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:08:37pm

re: #77 albusteve

for a new beginning, getting back to representative govt...reducing the size and roll of govt...just guesses...I think it's pretty harmless

Well these people seem to be pretty big on the second amdenment.

The problem is that in its current state it won't due them any good. Unless the American people are allowed to own RPGs and SAMs they're just gonna get blown away by 120 MM canister rounds or bombed into the ground. Those poor fools...

128 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:08:40pm

re: #120 reine.de.tout

Love Ya RDT!

It appears to me the Tea Partiers have glommed onto Brown.

NOT the other way around.

129 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:08:56pm

re: #120 reine.de.tout

It appears to me the Tea Partiers have glommed onto Brown.

I read a National Review piece in support of Brown, and they had to twist themselves into knots to be able to write in support of him - so I was actually surprised to see any Tea Party support for him at all.

But it is not yet obvious or apparent to me that he subscribes to the tea party nonsense. I'm sure he was glad for whatever support he got, including their's - but I have a hard time believing that he could actually win an election in Massachusetts if he was hard-core tea-party nuts.

They'll take what they can get. The overriding principle is smaller, limited government. As long as Brown sticks to that promise they'll continue to support him.

130 arethusa  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:09:27pm

re: #120 reine.de.tout

- but I have a hard time believing that he could actually win an election in Massachusetts if he was hard-core tea-party nuts.

Exactly. And if he wants to win another election in MA, he can't go that route (unless he decides to become the next Allan Grayson).

131 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:09:53pm

re: #127 jamesfirecat

Well these people seem to be pretty big on the second amdenment.

The problem is that in its current state it won't due them any good. Unless the American people are allowed to own RPGs and SAMs they're just gonna get blown away by 120 MM canister rounds or bombed into the ground. Those poor fools...

good grief....

132 captdiggs  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:10:09pm

re: #123 RogueOne

Except Code Pink DOESN'T like him.

They certainly fund raised for his campaign.
Perhaps they are disappointed now, but they would still support him over anyone to his right.
But that misses the point. A candidate can't be responsible for those who decide to cast their votes his or her way.
Why not wait to get to know this senator before the demonization.
Or is it just that all Republicans are now painted with the broad brush?

133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:10:14pm

re: #116 Rightwingconspirator

Thye flag is unimportant as of tomorrow.

re: #103 WindUpBird

If we want to look at undue influence we can go through interest groups top to bottom, left to right. Is the SEIU an undie influence in Sacramrnto and DC? Maybe. Plenty would deny that too right? It's all tit for tat baloney. Examine the policies of the primary winners. The big corporate donors will out influence the Tea Party every time.

The SEIU is equivalent to crazy birchers? That's some breathtaking false equivalency.

The big corporate donors cannot stop the GOP's move towards a populist bircher party. The GOP seems to need those people. If corporate donors eclipsed these people, why did Dobson and his other dominionist counterparts have so much access in the Bush white house? This isn't a zero sum game, corporate doners can influence the GOP's fiscal policy, and the bircher racist right will influence their social policy.

Aaaand you have a GOP that stays in the gutter with racists and paranoids.

134 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:10:21pm

re: #78 brookly red

No, I think every one knows what they stand for, revolution simply means change. Obama ran on change. Nowhere is violence implied... now if the flags had a ring of stars with a fist holding up a rifle THAT would change things.

To quote "The "II" also represents the second amendment which keeps this country safe from Tyranny" [Link: www.usrevolution2.com...]

No way at all to read that as encouraging violence or being ready for it.....

135 pvdl1969  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:10:22pm

re: #5 brookly red

How could I forget?

136 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:10:22pm

re: #123 RogueOne

re: #126 reine.de.tout

I thought they were behind him up until he started pushing for a surge in Afghanistan. It was only after that did their support evaporate. Am I wrong?

137 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:10:35pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

Code Pink does not love Obama, if I recall correctly.

Hi you!
Between McCain and Obama..I'm betting the House money that every Code Pink member voted for Obama..

138 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:10:53pm

re: #118 RogueOne

I don't care if he puts the roman numeral II on a flag. I do care if that Roman Numeral II refers to the 'coming' second American revolution, and that flag is being waved, apparently to the exclusion of the American flag, at a victory rally for a senator. If you read the explanation of the flag, it's filled with Jesus-and-God references, references to the 2nd amendment, and rhetoric about restoring the Republic.

Do you think the Republic needs restoring?


The Huffington Piece refers to Brown's presence at a fund-raiser sponsored by a Tea Party; I don't care about the question of being aware of them or not. It's obvious that was just miscommunication.

Again: I hope that Brown simply disavows the 2nd American Revolution rhetoric. There's plenty of non-violent-uprising terminology to use.

139 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:11:36pm

re: #134 jamesfirecat

To quote "The "II" also represents the second amendment which keeps this country safe from Tyranny" [Link: www.usrevolution2.com...]

No way at all to read that as encouraging violence or being ready for it...

So Obdicut doesn't like Betsy Ross and you don't like our Constitution. Got it.

140 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:11:40pm

re: #137 HoosierHoops

Hi you!
Between McCain and Obama..I'm betting the House money that every Code Pink member voted for Obama..

The break up is more recent.

141 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:11:40pm

re: #137 HoosierHoops

Hi you!
Between McCain and Obama..I'm betting the House money that every Code Pink member voted for Obama..

Sure - individual code-pinkers voted for Obama, I'm sure.
But as an organization - they're pretty upset with him right now, I believe.

142 arethusa  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:11:48pm

re: #136 Bubblehead II

re: #126 reine.de.tout

I thought they were behind him up until he started pushing for a surge in Afghanistan. It was only after that did their support evaporate. Am I wrong?

That's how I remember their support changing.

143 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:11:59pm

re: #85 Rightwingconspirator

You may be confusing their hyperbole with their actual desires. Suits the critics and the guilty by association quite well. Arguably, unfairly well. If we are going to expect every republican to refuse every dollar, every vote from the Tea Party, we must diminish any expectation of them winning office. That would suits the Dems just fine.

Poison pill anyone?

I don't ask that they turn away Tea Party votes and money just that they at least Publically denounce them for what they are.

Didn't Bob Dole once say "If you hate I don't want your vote?"

144 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:12:47pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

Code Pink does not love Obama, if I recall correctly.

Not NOW


Then (pre November 2008),,, different story

145 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:13:04pm

From the URL on that flag, it's only two mouse clicks to the John Birch Society, the WallBuilders, The Jekyll Island Project, and other bigoted, theocratic websites. Anybody familiar with the internet cannot claim "I had no idea!" after 24 hours.

146 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:13:06pm

Well, this is irritating. I own a Betsy Ross flag that I fly on holidays, since the Betsy Ross flag is a legal American flag, and I'm a historian, so it gives me, well, a tingle down my leg. *snicker*

I'm not keen on having my flag mean anything other than my pride in what the American Revolution stood for.

147 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:13:07pm

re: #134 jamesfirecat

To quote "The "II" also represents the second amendment which keeps this country safe from Tyranny" [Link: www.usrevolution2.com...]

No way at all to read that as encouraging violence or being ready for it...

violence against who?....you are definatly getting out there dude...there is not gonna be an armed revolution to overthrow the govt...at least not by more than a handful of lunatics you seem so afraid of...and their evil flag

148 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:13:12pm

re: #120 reine.de.tout

It appears to me the Tea Partiers have glommed onto Brown.

I read a National Review piece in support of Brown, and they had to twist themselves into knots to be able to write in support of him - so I was actually surprised to see any Tea Party support for him at all.

But it is not yet obvious or apparent to me that he subscribes to the tea party nonsense. I'm sure he was glad for whatever support he got, including their's - but I have a hard time believing that he could actually win an election in Massachusetts if he was hard-core tea-party nuts.

He probably doesn't subscribe to their nonsense (I don't believe he does) but I bet he'll play along if it means his re-election. And he'll give them access, and dog-whistle to them, and the bircher wing of the party grows stronger.

Let me be clear: I'm not worried about BROWN. I'm worried about the people with their Revolution 2 flags gaining more power.

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:13:54pm

re: #137 HoosierHoops

Hi you!
Between McCain and Obama..I'm betting the House money that every Code Pink member voted for Obama..

So nobody voted for a protest candidate? Just like nobody in the GOP wrote in Ron Paul?

150 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:14:04pm

OK, so assuming for the sake of argument that the TP's are all that much of a threat, the question is what to do?

151 Charpete67  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:14:13pm

re: #133 WindUpBird

Aaaand you have a GOP that stays in the gutter with racists and paranoids.

dude...Jeremiah Wright is not with the GOP...

152 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:14:25pm

re: #106 albusteve

yes, I think you do...imo angling back towards federalsim and downsizing govt is the point...as far as Constitutional rights, there are legitimate complaints there as well I suppose...always need to be watchful of the feds

Yet they remained silent while Bush had people imprisoned in an island fortress without the right to a lawyer, a trial, or to be told what they were charged with...

153 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:15:17pm

re: #133 WindUpBird

The SEIU is equivalent in the sense of undue influence, often bad for the country apart from Union members. That sense ONLY. Enron and Exxon can't out influence the Tea Partiers? I just do not see it that way. Billionaires vs. funny flag wavers with a rented bus? Uh uh. Oh and racism is no exclusive of the right is it?

154 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:15:33pm

The "Brown denied knowing about the Tea Party movement" has been shown to be a partisan hit job:

[Link: theplumline.whorunsgov.com...]

The reporter asked a very vague question as a "gotcha" at Brown, who responded by pushing the reporter to make his question more precise.

And, surprise surprise, the Globe paraphrased the exchange to make Brown look the worse.

155 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:15:47pm

re: #147 albusteve

violence against who?...you are definatly getting out there dude...there is not gonna be an armed revolution to overthrow the govt...at least not by more than a handful of lunatics you seem so afraid of...and their evil flag

Again, flag's not the problem, and nobody's overthrowing anything.

All I'm talking about is the populist tea-party loons in the GOP gaining market share. And as they gain market share, the GOP goes further into the gutter.

These are the people Buckley kicked out. Buckley's gone, Buckley's SON was kicked out, and now the birchers are back stronger than ever.

156 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:16:11pm

Wow....well, you nailed it I guess. Proof positive that even voters in deep-blue Massachusetts are fed up with an overreaching unaccountable government right-wing racist homophobic tea-bagging bigots.

And Croakley was such a stellar candidate that got a boost from the President flying up to Boston, too//////

157 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:16:11pm

re: #139 RogueOne

Rogue, that's pretty damn unfair. The problem I have has nothing to do with Betsy Ross.

158 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:16:19pm

re: #149 WindUpBird

So nobody voted for a protest candidate? Just like nobody in the GOP wrote in Ron Paul?

Who knows? There is a shit load of Ron Paul crazies around here...

159 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:16:30pm

re: #150 brookly red

OK, so assuming for the sake of argument that the TP's are all that much of a threat, the question is what to do?

wring our hands and blog our asses off with extreme prejudice!

160 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:17:03pm

re: #148 WindUpBird

He probably doesn't subscribe to their nonsense (I don't believe he does) but I bet he'll play along if it means his re-election. And he'll give them access, and dog-whistle to them, and the bircher wing of the party grows stronger.

Let me be clear: I'm not worried about BROWN. I'm worried about the people with their Revolution 2 flags gaining more power.

No, I don't want those folks gaining power either.

But Brown could not win an election in Massachusetts, I don't think, if he becomes one of them.

At any rate - my personal preference is to wait and see what actually happens before we begin to speculate as to how awful Brown is gonna be (or not be)

161 Soap_Man  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:17:15pm

re: #138 Obdicut

The Huffington Piece refers to Brown's presence at a fund-raiser sponsored by a Tea Party;

Speaking of HP, they are responding to this in a very mature way.

For the last f'ing time, leave the kids out of it. This is incredibly trashy, even by their standards.

162 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:17:25pm

re: #151 Charpete67

dude...Jeremiah Wright is not with the GOP...

Wow, do I hear an echo? It sounds like... a talking point from the 2008 campaign! Rolling across this great land! Tell ya what, champ. When Jeremiah Wright is let into the white house to set policy, you let me know.

Until then, go play with your blocks.

163 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:17:35pm

re: #131 albusteve

good grief...

What, do you think they could actually take on/take over the government armed with what is leagle for them to buy at the moment?

164 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:17:52pm

re: #159 albusteve

wring our hands and blog our asses off with extreme prejudice!

I for one am replenishing my precious bodily fluids...

165 blueraven  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:18:04pm

re: #61 TampaKnight

PS I'm amused that seemingly no coverage is ever given to the fact that nearly EVERY Democratic candidate has influence and attendance from every power mongering union in the nation, who dwarf this tea party thing in terms of size AND influence.

If you don't believe me, just read up on the President cutting them a sweetheart exemption deal on health care.

Perhaps so, but I don't see them carrying revolution flags. If they did, believe me, Obama would not be our President

166 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:18:07pm

re: #158 HoosierHoops

Who knows? There is a shit load of Ron Paul crazies around here...

Ironically, in yesterday's election, the protest candidate was named Kennedy.

167 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:18:20pm

re: #143 jamesfirecat

I don't ask that they turn away Tea Party votes and money just that they at least Publically denounce them for what they are.

Why? Democrats never denounced the IA supporters and others who burned Bush puppets in effigy, depicted him and members of his Administration being beheaded or hung or shot.

They stopped dragging them to the front of the crowd when they realized that their presence was costing them elections, but even when Howard Dean managed to lock them away in the closet, they were never directly denounced.

I think I'll wait to see how Brown conducts himself. So far, I haven't read or heard anything suggesting that the TPers had any significant role in his victory, or that there is any deep connection between Brown and the TPers.

168 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:18:22pm

re: #139 RogueOne

So Obdicut doesn't like Betsy Ross and you don't like our Constitution. Got it.

*facepalm*

Did Betsy Ross sew the II into the flag and I missed it?

169 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:18:23pm

re: #152 jamesfirecat

Yet they remained silent while Bush had people imprisoned in an island fortress without the right to a lawyer, a trial, or to be told what they were charged with...

is there something illegal about that?...if there is I missed it....you favor terrorists because?

170 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:18:25pm

re: #132 captdiggs

They certainly fund raised for his campaign.
Perhaps they are disappointed now, but they would still support him over anyone to his right.
But that misses the point. A candidate can't be responsible for those who decide to cast their votes his or her way.

And I'm sure you were standing up for that principle when Barack Obama was demonized over his associations with Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright too. Actually, I'm sure you weren't.

Why not wait to get to know this senator before the demonization.

Gee, now it's "demonization" to point out that his victory party was full of people waving "Second American Revolution" flags?

No, it's not "demonization." It's pointing out a fact. You can scream "demonization" all you like, but it's a transparent attempt to divert attention away from something you think is damaging to Brown.

171 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:18:33pm

re: #143 jamesfirecat

I agree whole heartedly. Cut The Fringe (TM) Darn I still have not found the superscript trick for comments here. I would love to see the Tea Partiers cast off the racists and so hard core fiscal conservative, and belay all serious social conservative efforts at least for the time being.

Not gonna happen though, so I focus on small gov guys and women I can vote for.

Sure servers the left well to play up the Tea Party though huh?

172 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:18:38pm

re: #164 brookly red

I for one am replenishing my precious bodily fluids...

beer not tea btw

173 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:19:12pm

re: #162 WindUpBird

So because the campaign is over, I guess that means 0Obama didn't spend 20 years in Wrights church listening to his hate-America sermons.

Am I getting this right?

174 captdiggs  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:19:12pm

re: #150 brookly red

OK, so assuming for the sake of argument that the TP's are all that much of a threat, the question is what to do?

In my opinion, they're not.
As the government becomes more balanced via election they are going to fade into the woodwork.
Most of those people are just average people who are fed up with government BS while being taxed to death and seeing less for their work.
You can find the nuts and the fringe for photo ops, just the same as you could in all the raging anti-bush gatherings for eight years.

175 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:19:21pm

re: #160 reine.de.tout

No, I don't want those folks gaining power either.

But Brown could not win an election in Massachusetts, I don't think, if he becomes one of them.

At any rate - my personal preference is to wait and see what actually happens before we begin to speculate as to how awful Brown is gonna be (or not be)

can't do that!...that would shut down the screeching

176 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:19:24pm

re: #147 albusteve

violence against who?...you are definatly getting out there dude...there is not gonna be an armed revolution to overthrow the govt...at least not by more than a handful of lunatics you seem so afraid of...and their evil flag

I don't believe that they can serriously mount a revolution. I worry that they serriously believe they can and may try....

177 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:20:14pm

re: #138 Obdicut

I don't care if he puts the roman numeral II on a flag. I do care if that Roman Numeral II refers to the 'coming' second American revolution, and that flag is being waved, apparently to the exclusion of the American flag, at a victory rally for a senator. If you read the explanation of the flag, it's filled with Jesus-and-God references, references to the 2nd amendment, and rhetoric about restoring the Republic.

Do you think the Republic needs restoring?

The Huffington Piece refers to Brown's presence at a fund-raiser sponsored by a Tea Party; I don't care about the question of being aware of them or not. It's obvious that was just miscommunication.

Again: I hope that Brown simply disavows the 2nd American Revolution rhetoric. There's plenty of non-violent-uprising terminology to use.

Quoted for truth, not much more I can add.

You can't argue with zealots, I just wish there was a bit less apologizing for the zealots, ya know?

178 Fortitudine  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:20:39pm

It's hard to believe that someone running for senator in Massachusetts, a state that already has a version of healthcare reform, could run a successful campaign based solely on being anti-healthcare reform. There's more to it, and it may be a while before the dust settles enough to make an accurate analysis.

179 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:20:41pm

re: #164 brookly red

I for one am replenishing my precious bodily fluids...

I always like to have a surplus...just in case

180 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:21:31pm

re: #148 WindUpBird

Are you worried Sarah will be Vice President? Or President someday? I'm not. I'm not worried the Birchers will get real power either. Showing up on the White House guest list is hardly power. Raising money has power but that is proportionate to the money.

181 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:21:35pm

re: #161 Soap_Man

I feel dirty now.

It's the main reason I would never go into politics: I could never put my fiancee through that. Or our prospective kids. Ever.

182 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:22:05pm

re: #170 Charles

No, it's not "demonization." It's pointing out a fact. You can scream "demonization" all you like

Smacks more of butthurt, to borrow a phrase.

Would you like the election results to be annuled, Charles?

183 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:22:07pm

I was reading some blog and posts at HuffPo calling Mass voters idiots and other assorted name for electing Brown. Sort of says something about them voting for Kennedy so many times before that if that is the case then.

184 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:22:25pm

re: #118 RogueOne

What do you have against Betsy Ross? Some guy puts 11 on a betsy ross flag and you want to hyperventilate? Second, why recommend the Huffington piece when his underlying supporting piece shows the Huffington writer got it wrong?

[Link: theplumline.whorunsgov.com...]
and TPM, those teabagger patronizers, agrees it was wrong:
[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Your problem isn't with the flag, it's with the tea party support. Stick to that.


And might I add why are all you people pelting me with tomatoes for simply having my clothing adorned with Tibetin good luck charms?

The meaning of symbols can change, the first American Revolution was to break away from a monarch, the second would over throw a duely elected representative government...

185 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:22:46pm

re: #173 Fenway_Nation

So because the campaign is over, I guess that means 0Obama didn't spend 20 years in Wrights church listening to his hate-America sermons.

Am I getting this right?

And do you have any proof he was in the church for any specific "hatesermon"? What words did he hear specifically? Was he there every day? Every week? Every month?

You know what assume makes, right?

186 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:22:48pm

re: #182 Fenway_Nation

Smacks more of butthurt, to borrow a phrase.

Would you like the election results to be annuled, Charles?

Yeah, that's a reasonable question.

/

187 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:22:51pm

re: #176 jamesfirecat

I don't believe that they can serriously mount a revolution. I worry that they serriously believe they can and may try...

well keep your night light on and sleep with one eye open...regardless, it's not gonna happen

188 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:23:11pm

re: #178 Fortitudine

It's hard to believe that someone running for senator in Massachusetts, a state that already has a version of healthcare reform, could run a successful campaign based solely on being anti-healthcare reform. There's more to it, and it may be a while before the dust settles enough to make an accurate analysis.

What's more to it is simple: the Massachusetts plan ain't working. Insurance premiums have shot up, and doctors are fleeing the state -- especially primary care physicians.

A lot of people who voted for Brown said "this health care plan stinks, and we don't want it inflicted on the nation."

189 Soap_Man  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:23:45pm

re: #188 BunnyThief

What's more to it is simple: the Massachusetts plan ain't working. Insurance premiums have shot up, and doctors are fleeing the state -- especially primary care physicians.

A lot of people who voted for Brown said "this health care plan stinks, and we don't want it inflicted on the nation."

Didn't Brown say he liked the MA plan?

190 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:23:48pm

re: #180 Rightwingconspirator

Are you worried Sarah will be Vice President? Or President someday? I'm not. I'm not worried the Birchers will get real power either. Showing up on the White House guest list is hardly power. Raising money has power but that is proportionate to the money.

I'm not worried Sarah will be VP or President. I'm worried one of the political parties in this country will continue to have to kowtow to Birchers to get votes, will have to pander to them to win elections.

191 captdiggs  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:23:57pm

re: #170 Charles

Well, Charles if you can show some equivalent to Obama's attendance at a racist "church" for 20 years ( of course he didn't hear a word of that //) within Brown's history...I'm all ears.

192 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:24:04pm

/the real irony is that those flags are most likely made in China...

193 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:24:38pm

re: #155 WindUpBird

Again, flag's not the problem, and nobody's overthrowing anything.

All I'm talking about is the populist tea-party loons in the GOP gaining market share. And as they gain market share, the GOP goes further into the gutter.

These are the people Buckley kicked out. Buckley's gone, Buckley's SON was kicked out, and now the birchers are back stronger than ever.

I pointed out some time ago, and many times since, that a Brown win or even near-loss would be seized upon by the TPers to boost their momentum. It was an inevitable downside of this election. Nor would a thumping Brown loss have diminished them in any significant way, given their current fringe status.

In real life, I don't see that they actually brought significant influence to bear on this election. They haven't merited so much as a mention in any analysis I've read or heard yet.

194 arethusa  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:24:47pm

re: #178 Fortitudine

It's hard to believe that someone running for senator in Massachusetts, a state that already has a version of healthcare reform, could run a successful campaign based solely on being anti-healthcare reform. There's more to it, and it may be a while before the dust settles enough to make an accurate analysis.

I agree, although in the telephone exit poll Rasmussen did, 52% of respondents said it was the most important issue. On the other hand, Brown ran a better campaign, was more likeable, and is a fiscal conservative (which given the massive cost of the health care bill is also relevant), all things that worked in his favor.

195 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:04pm

re: #182 Fenway_Nation

Smacks more of butthurt, to borrow a phrase.

Would you like the election results to be annuled, Charles?

What the hell are you talking about?

Try engaging what I said in the real world, instead of this ridiculous straw man BS.

196 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:10pm

re: #192 brookly red

/the real irony is that those flags are most likely made in China...

and somebody is making a mint!....capitalism, the American Way!

197 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:10pm

re: #189 Soap_Man

Didn't Brown say he liked the MA plan?

/that was code... the MA plan is like the Manhattan Project.

198 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:21pm

re: #185 WindUpBird

You know what assume makes, right?

a logical supposition based on data at hand?

199 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:32pm

re: #191 captdiggs

Well, Charles if you can show some equivalent to Obama's attendance at a racist "church" for 20 years ( of course he didn't hear a word of that //) within Brown's history...I'm all ears.

Try Tu Quoque! A refreshing tonic for warm summer days!

200 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:33pm

re: #185 WindUpBird

And do you have any proof he was in the church for any specific "hatesermon"?

I don't have any proof that Robert Byrd was at a "hatersermon" for the Klan, but it stands to reason he would've been an audience for some bigoted speeches and sermons given the company he kept. So it's unfair to assume that the same would apply to the Trinity United Church?

201 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:44pm

re: #180 Rightwingconspirator

Are you worried Sarah will be Vice President? Or President someday? I'm not. I'm not worried the Birchers will get real power either. Showing up on the White House guest list is hardly power. Raising money has power but that is proportionate to the money.

After watching the Birchers grow for a couple of years, and knowing their preference for secrecy, I'm starting to get a bit worried about what kind of power they are getting. They could buy a senator, maybe.

202 Fortitudine  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:47pm

re: #134 jamesfirecat

To quote "The "II" also represents the second amendment which keeps this country safe from Tyranny" [Link: www.usrevolution2.com...]

No way at all to read that as encouraging violence or being ready for it...

You know, I've spent a fair amount of time in the Middle East, which has not one single "democracy" (as Americans would recognize it. And that includes Israel). Nearly every man and boy over the age of 16 packs heat. And yet...they don't seem to be able to keep themselves safe from tyranny.

I've also lived in the UK and other countries with draconian gun control laws. And yet...the residents of these countries seem to enjoy a high level of civil rights and personal freedoms.

How can this be?

//

203 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:47pm

re: #191 captdiggs

Well, Charles if you can show some equivalent to Obama's attendance at a racist "church" for 20 years ( of course he didn't hear a word of that //) within Brown's history...I'm all ears.

President Obama absolutely renounced Rev. Wright in strong, clear terms. I guess that wasn't enough for you.

204 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:25:53pm

re: #169 albusteve

is there something illegal about that?...if there is I missed it...you favor terrorists because?

If we don't try them how do we know they're terrorists?

Also what about warrantless wire tapping?

205 arethusa  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:26:44pm

re: #189 Soap_Man

Didn't Brown say he liked the MA plan?

I think he actually voted for it.

206 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:26:45pm

re: #193 SixDegrees

I pointed out some time ago, and many times since, that a Brown win or even near-loss would be seized upon by the TPers to boost their momentum. It was an inevitable downside of this election. Nor would a thumping Brown loss have diminished them in any significant way, given their current fringe status.

In real life, I don't see that they actually brought significant influence to bear on this election. They haven't merited so much as a mention in any analysis I've read or heard yet.

I hope you're right, man! I'm quite worried that they have enough pull to primary reasonable GOP candidates.

207 huggy77  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:27:08pm

re: #106 albusteve

bingo!!! lets elect those who want smaller government...

This bloated fed govt is not what our founders had in mind. Lets put it on a diet, get it lean and mean...

208 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:27:29pm

re: #204 jamesfirecat

If we don't try them how do we know they're terrorists?

Also what about warrantless wire tapping?

oh please Google spies on you more that the gubermint...

209 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:27:32pm

re: #190 WindUpBird

I may be wrong but I really think the Birchers, like Sarah are having a moment in the sun and it will set by 2012. They will shoot themselves in the foot.

I may be all to sanguine we can watch this over time. And talk it up of course.

Guess what is likely to move Brown to center? His new constituents.

210 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:27:36pm

re: #204 jamesfirecat

If we don't try them how do we know they're terrorists?

Also what about warrantless wire tapping?

what about them?...they are legal which is precisely why BO continues the project

211 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:27:52pm

re: #192 brookly red

/the real irony is that those flags are most likely made in China...

They claim on the website to be American made...

212 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:28:04pm

re: #170 Charles

And I'm sure you were standing up for that principle when Barack Obama wa demonized over his associations with Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright too. Actually, I'm sure you weren't.

I draw a distinction between "people who have chosen to support me over my opponent and show up at an event open to the public" and "people I have chosen to associate with both in my public and private lives for years and years." To me, the former is part and parcel of the political process. The latter is tremendously revealing about the character of the person in question.

213 Soap_Man  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:29:04pm

re: #208 brookly red

oh please Google spies on you more that the gubermint...

The people that run Facebook probably have more information on me than the federal government.

214 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:29:05pm

re: #211 jamesfirecat

They claim on the website to be American made...

cool! I need to make a little on the side....

215 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:29:21pm

re: #200 Fenway_Nation

I don't have any proof that Robert Byrd was at a "hatersermon" for the Klan, but it stands to reason he would've been an audience for some bigoted speeches and sermons given the company he kept. So it's unfair to assume that the same would apply to the Trinity United Church?

It actually doesn't stand to reason, no. Your premise is rejected. It took a long time for a good tape of Wright saying something insane to come up. IF the guy was some David Duke Kill Whitey guy all day, Obama would never have gone near him.

And now we're comparing Obama to Klan-era Byrd. Nice!

I just want to know if you actually believe Obama is racist, or if this is just GOP tribalism gotta-trash-the-dem-president behavior. The latter I can understand, the former is what Glenn Beck says.

216 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:29:36pm

re: #192 brookly red

Actually the site claims they are made here in the U.S.A.

217 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:29:55pm

re: #208 brookly red

oh please Google spies on you more that the gubermint...

Yeah but google can't arrest me even if they can humiliate me by letting everyone know what I search for...

218 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:29:55pm

re: #212 BunnyThief

I draw a distinction between "people who have chosen to support me over my opponent and show up at an event open to the public" and "people I have chosen to associate with both in my public and private lives for years and years." To me, the former is part and parcel of the political process. The latter is tremendously revealing about the character of the person in question.

But Obama's denunciation of Rev. Wright didn't reveal anything to you?

219 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:30:20pm

re: #209 Rightwingconspirator

I may be wrong but I really think the Birchers, like Sarah are having a moment in the sun and it will set by 2012. They will shoot themselves in the foot.

I may be all to sanguine we can watch this over time. And talk it up of course.

Guess what is likely to move Brown to center? His new constituents.

Hope you're right! We'll find out. My feeling is it won't set in 2012, that they'll have an effect on the GOP primary. Not cosmic effect, but enough to swing results their way.

220 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:30:23pm

re: #216 Bubblehead II

Actually the site claims they are made here in the U.S.A.

but are the made by union flag makers?

221 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:30:27pm

re: #195 Charles

What the hell are you talking about?

Try engaging what I said in the real world, instead of this ridiculous straw man BS.

OK- real world fact is that Scott Brown lost because he won over enough independent voters in the bluest state of the union who- as it turned out were getting tired of governmental overreach, got sick of the state Dem party thinking they'd vote for whoever was trotted out as long as they had a (D) next to their name and some of the same costly policies draining the Commonwealth's treasury being flirted with on the federal level.

Any conversation that the tea party movement just waltzed into a very loyal dem stronghold and engaged in some sooper-seekrit nefarious conspiracy doesn't really fall into the 'real world' category.

222 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:30:59pm

re: #213 Soap_Man

The people that run Facebook probably have more information on me than the federal government.

Which is why I'm not on facebook. yech. :(

223 captdiggs  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:31:31pm

re: #203 Charles

President Obama absolutely renounced Rev. Wright in strong, clear terms. I guess that wasn't enough for you.


Sure, well into his campaign when it was politically advantageous....and not a moment before.
It was a phony a move as any I've seen from a politician.

224 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:31:35pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Yeah but google can't arrest me even if they can humiliate me by letting everyone know what I search for...

got sumptin to hide?

225 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:31:40pm

re: #213 Soap_Man

The people that run Facebook probably have more information on me than the federal government.

And better photos!
/

226 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:31:46pm

re: #210 albusteve

what about them?...they are legal which is precisely why BO continues the project

Leagle or not it was a still a dramatic increase in the federal governments power and yet these tea party people didn't protest it...re: #220 brookly red

but are the made by union flag makers?

Yeah for all we know those flags are made here in the USA by illegal immigrants!

227 researchok  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:32:02pm

Every registered Republican and Tea Party member could have voted for Scott Brown and he still would have lost the election.

Brown won because a whole lot of independents (who overwhelmingly voted for Obama last year) threw their support behind him.

That said, Charles is right. The Tea Party will prove to be an anchor around Brown's neck, much in the way the very hard left is now a burden on the Dems. You can't whitewash the Tea Party leadership racism, any more than you can give Jane Hamsher for example, a pass for going after Hadassah Lieberman. As crazy as Hamsher is (and she is) she picks her real targets one at a time, unlike the Tea Party big wigs who make hate an integral part of their platform. If that weren't true, they wouldn't have to spend so much time denying it.

It's pretty impressive when some of the Tea Party folks make Ed Schultz look respectable.

228 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:32:08pm

I wonder if we'll be hearing about Wright in 20 years the way we still hear about Chappaquiddick now.

Ahh politics.

229 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:32:15pm

re: #203 Charles

President Obama absolutely renounced Rev. Wright in strong, clear terms. I guess that wasn't enough for you.

Huh? Only after his attendence there was pointed out by the Clinton campaign, IIRC. About 2 decades to late to carry any weight with me.

/Besides, da jooooooos won't let Wright visit the White House

230 humpty dumpty was pushed  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:32:19pm

If the tea partiers helped push Scott Brown`s pickup over the finish line I`d say they are owed a big high five. Or fist bump, whatever. OT, I sang the National Anthem to kick off a tea party in West Texas...the whole event was positive with a fun atmosphere. Never dreamed middle class, fiscal conservatives would get so fired up.

231 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:32:57pm

re: #222 WindUpBird

Which is why I'm not on facebook. yech. :(

Are you on any stalker-friendly social networking site?

232 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:32:58pm

re: #224 brookly red

got sumptin to hide?

Just the standard list of perversities and perversions...

233 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:33:09pm

re: #213 Soap_Man

The people that run Facebook probably have more information on me than the federal government.

I have never joined a social network website.. And the Government knows nothing about me..
/Oh Shit! I worked for the Gov't for 20 years! Crap..They still may have my home phone number!

234 Soap_Man  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:33:12pm

Uh oh.

235 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:33:24pm

re: #221 Fenway_Nation

OK- real world fact is that Scott Brown lost because he won over enough independent voters in the bluest state of the union who- as it turned out were getting tired of governmental overreach, got sick of the state Dem party thinking they'd vote for whoever was trotted out as long as they had a (D) next to their name and some of the same costly policies draining the Commonwealth's treasury being flirted with on the federal level.

Any conversation that the tea party movement just waltzed into a very loyal dem stronghold and engaged in some sooper-seekrit nefarious conspiracy doesn't really fall into the 'real world' category.

OK, since you just keep setting up these dumb straw men, I don't see any point to discussing this with you. Just proceed with your hate-Obama session.

236 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:34:19pm

re: #232 jamesfirecat

Just the standard list of perversities and perversions...

/I don't care what you put in your underwear as long as you are not on my flight :)

237 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:34:24pm

re: #228 WindUpBird

I wonder if we'll be hearing about Wright in 20 years the way we still hear about Chappaquiddick now.

Ahh politics.

I hope so

238 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:34:46pm

re: #170 Charles

Gee, now it's "demonization" to point out that his victory party was full of people waving "Second American Revolution" flags?
.

I think that's an overstatement from what I've seen. It also begs the question of where the few flags visible came from. Are they all being waved by TPers? Or were TPers handing them out at the entrances without comment, and the people waving them are thinking, "Oooh, an American flag for me to wave!"?

I've been looking for a post mortem on the election analyzing the many influences on the outcome that mentions the TPers, so far without success. There were certainly a lot of factors in play, from Coakley's abysmal campaign to general angst over the economy and the party in charge of the Federal government, but I've not run across anyone claiming the TPers were responsible, let along providing any tangible evidence in support of such a claim. Exit polling, for example, while admittedly patchy, seemed to distill down sentiments like "Coakley's an arrogant ass who I can't vote for" to "The Democrats have too much power in this state" with "Brown seems like a nice guy" somewhere along the line.

But perhaps more detailed analyses will become available over the next few days. Right now, though, I'm not seeing the TPers as heavy hitters in this contest.

239 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:34:57pm

re: #223 captdiggs

Sure, well into his campaign when it was politically advantageous...and not a moment before.
It was a phony a move as any I've seen from a politician.

Maybe, just maybe...

Obama never actually heard any hate sermons! Maybe it actually wouldn't have been something he would have quietly stood by for.

Lotta assuming going on in the comments here.

240 Fortitudine  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:35:07pm

re: #233 HoosierHoops

I have never joined a social network website.. And the Government knows nothing about me..
/Oh Shit! I worked for the Gov't for 20 years! Crap..They still may have my home phone number!

Don't worry. Like the Ark of the Covenant, it's in a crate buried in the back of a warehouse and no one will ever find it.

241 Bob Levin  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:35:14pm

Well of course Tea Partiers are going to be there. They're going to be everywhere.

But Brown's constituents are from Massachusetts, which means most of the far right are actually uncommitted independents. It would be ridiculous for someone representing a state where the either first or second largest industry is higher education and scientific research to stand for anything that would dent those industries.

Now, if he holds the seat for long enough to run for national office, that's when he has to return Glenn Beck's phone calls.

242 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:35:52pm

re: #235 Charles

OK, since you just keep setting up these dumb straw men, I don't see any point to discussing this with you. Just proceed with your hate-Obama session.

My apologies, Charles- I'll just defer to your vast expertise on Massachusetts politics and the Bay State electorate from here on out.

243 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:36:08pm

re: #168 WindUpBird

*facepalm*

Did Betsy Ross sew the II into the flag and I missed it?

Obdicut was coming across sounding like a conspiracy theorists and James was helping him. If they can read between the lines I figure I may as well, it's fun for all!

244 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:36:13pm

re: #231 Fenway_Nation

Are you on any stalker-friendly social networking site?

Does Livejournal And Deviantart count? My real name is not associated with my LJ account in any way, and my DA account is for business.

245 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:36:17pm

re: #239 WindUpBird

Maybe, just maybe...

Obama never actually heard any hate sermons! Maybe it actually wouldn't have been something he would have quietly stood by for.

Lotta assuming going on in the comments here.

heh...not so hot, are you serious?

246 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:36:33pm

re: #228 WindUpBird

I wonder if we'll be hearing about Wright in 20 years the way we still hear about Chappaquiddick now.

Ahh politics.

no, the difference is there is no statute of limitations on negligent homicide...

247 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:36:51pm

re: #228 WindUpBird

I wonder if we'll be hearing about Wright in 20 years the way we still hear about Chappaquiddick now.

Ahh politics.

Are you accusing Wright of leaving a young woman to drown after driving his car into a river while drunk out of his mind?

Cause, I haven't heard that yet.
//

248 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:36:56pm

re: #238 SixDegrees

I think that's an overstatement from what I've seen.

Definitely NOT an overstatement at all. Check out the updates above. The victory party was FULL of these flags.

It also begs the question of where the few flags visible came from.

I see dozens of these flags in the pictures I linked. Not a "few" at all.

249 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:37:13pm

re: #218 Charles

But Obama's denunciation of Rev. Wright didn't reveal anything to you?

That denunciation did reveal something. I don't recall exactly when that happened; I do know that now, Obama seems to have nothing to do with Wright whatsoever.

At the time the Obama/Wright connection started being discussed with concern here, if I recall correctly, that denunciation had not yet occurred.

I agree with Bunny Thief's point:

I draw a distinction between "people who have chosen to support me over my opponent and show up at an event open to the public" and "people I have chosen to associate with both in my public and private lives for years and years." To me, the former is part and parcel of the political process. The latter is tremendously revealing about the character of the person in question.
250 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:37:22pm

re: #218 Charles

But Obama's denunciation of Rev. Wright didn't reveal anything to you?

Yes, it did. Quite a bit. Coming on the heels of his repeated refusals do denounce Brown, it implied that Wright wasn't polling well with the electorate and it was time to throw Wright under the bus.

Obama had no real problems with Wright for years -- Wright officiated at Obama's wedding and baptized both his daughters. Once all the stuff Wright said started coming out, only then did Obama start backing away.

As far as Ayers goes... the man is a confessed unrepentant terrorist. The only thing keeping him from being a mirror McVeigh is more charisma and less competence.

251 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:37:48pm

re: #237 albusteve

I hope so

Because that's good for America.

252 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:37:49pm

re: #219 WindUpBird

I have to be careful how I say what I do as I speak in the context of the main election. As an indy, I have no primary to vote. I can just watch, chat and hope. Then comes the Main Event.

253 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:37:53pm

re: #220 brookly red

No idea. But since this a small outfit, I would assume (yeah, I know) that they are made by some outfit like cafepress or one of its competitors.

254 ckb  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:37:53pm

Everyone who waves the Tea Party flag is not an extremist. While there are certainly extremists in the movement (as there are/were with the anti war movement) there are also those that are just in line with the populism of the concept. Both concepts.

A careful reading of the linked transcript reveals that Scott never denied speaking to the Tea Party group or knowing about them. He was trying to ask about "taking over the country" and "taking down moderate republicans". It's conceivable he knew them simply as a conservative group.

So, rather than damning him for associations he doesn't have, how about we see what he says and does before seating him next to Ms. Bachman. Because if loose associations like this are all it takes to put a conservative under Charles' conservative bus, the conservative bus is empty as it rides over the mountains of fallen.

The agnostic/atheist evolution-loving fiscally responsible homeland-security-conscious radical-Islam-watching pro-chioce pro-gay-marriage AGW-spewing Israel-supporter does not exist in todays politic and probably never will. He can't get elected dog catcher.

255 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:37:54pm

Yep, this post definitely hit a raw nerve.

256 Soap_Man  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:38:30pm

re: #239 WindUpBird

Maybe, just maybe...

Obama never actually heard any hate sermons! Maybe it actually wouldn't have been something he would have quietly stood by for.

Lotta assuming going on in the comments here.

Allow me to assume. Obama is clearly not very religious. He went to that church for one reason and one reason alone; he was a transplant with political ambitions. He went there because it is one of the biggest churches in the district. A way to be known in the community. Call it what you want, but I'll be willing to bet he didn't particularly care what was or wasn't said there.

Attending the church was a political decision, as was his speech disavowing Wright.

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:38:33pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think it was pretty obvious who was going to attach themselves to the campaign.

This is the danger Republican candidates are going to face for a while. They'll want the enthusiasm that comes with the tea party faction, but not the wacka fringe. How Brown handles this could be awful, or great.

I had higher hopes before I saw the effing 'Second Revolution' flags, but am still trying to keep an open mind.

258 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:38:58pm

re: #244 WindUpBird

I keep getting relatives trying to get me to sign up, saying that people who I haven't heard from since high school (and haven't really wanted to hear from them) contacted them via Facebook saying they'd like to get in touch w/me.......as though it's supposed to be some sort of incentive.

/Met 'em halfway by starting up my own blog....

259 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:39:03pm

re: #251 WindUpBird

Because that's good for America.

exactly

260 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:39:04pm

re: #255 Charles

Yep, this post definitely hit a raw nerve.

but it's all good... we are being civil.

261 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:39:32pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

This is the danger Republican candidates are going to face for a while. They'll want the enthusiasm that comes with the tea party faction, but not the wacka fringe. How Brown handles this could be awful, or great.

I had higher hopes before I saw the effing 'Second Revolution' flags, but am still trying to keep an open mind.

I agree with you on everything here.

262 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:39:54pm

re: #255 Charles

Yep, this post definitely hit a raw nerve.

So did yesterday's election, apparently.

263 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:39:59pm

re: #252 Rightwingconspirator

I have to be careful how I say what I do as I speak in the context of the main election. As an indy, I have no primary to vote. I can just watch, chat and hope. Then comes the Main Event.

Man, It'd drive me crazy to be an independent. I like primaries. Especially in Oregon, where I can vote by mail.

264 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:40:04pm

I just got my new Martha Stewart Living mag and there is an article on how to throw the perfect tea party. LET'S GET HER!!!
/sorry, someone needed to bring a light comment

265 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:40:41pm

re: #248 Charles

Well in a person's first campaign & as underdog I suppose you take what support you find; now we will see what kind of man he is with the office of Senator upon him.

266 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:40:43pm

re: #255 Charles

Yep, this post definitely hit a raw nerve.

I'd say more like "provoked some thought." The disagreements have been remarkably civil and intellectual, not emotional.

Or, to better parallel the original phrase, "fired off some neurons."

267 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:40:57pm

I don't think I've ever posted a single article about the influence of the tea partiers that didn't immediately provoke dozens of comments telling me I was exaggerating, mistaken, hallucinating, crazy, etc. etc.

Meanwhile, the tea party goons have gotten more and more influential in the GOP, and this process is continuing now in Massachusetts.

And the same people who've minimized and pooh-poohed every LGF post on the matter are still at it.

268 ckb  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:41:29pm

re: #170 Charles

Gee, now it's "demonization" to point out that his victory party was full of people waving "Second American Revolution" flags?

No, it's not "demonization." It's pointing out a fact. You can scream "demonization" all you like, but it's a transparent attempt to divert attention away from something you think is damaging to Brown.

Yes, it is "demonization" to point out that his victory party was full of people waving "Second American Revolution" flags?

It is not "demonization" to point out that his victory party had two people waving "Second American Revolution" flags.

One of the themes that took off around here was the "Scott heard round the world" line over the past two weeks. Could explain the flags as well. This win was a Revolution in Mass.

269 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:42:03pm

re: #260 brookly red

but it's all good... we are being civil.

lot's of drama!

270 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:42:08pm

re: #258 Fenway_Nation

I keep getting relatives trying to get me to sign up, saying that people who I haven't heard from since high school (and haven't really wanted to hear from them) contacted them via Facebook saying they'd like to get in touch w/me...as though it's supposed to be some sort of incentive.

/Met 'em halfway by starting up my own blog...

That's why I'm not on Facebook. I don't want family and people from high school finding me, and obligating me to interact with them, or using Facebook as a jumping off point to snoop around the internet for me. If people find me via my business or because they're legitimately in the communities online I'm in, that's fine. But I don't like that Facebook forces you to use your real identity.

271 checked08  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:42:17pm

re: #198 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

an ass out of u and me. wait, how did that go?

272 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:42:27pm

re: #255 Charles

All part of a surprise fail for the Dems. Honestly the Republicans did not pull out the win the Dems practically gave it away, like Bob Dole did in his campaign.

273 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:42:32pm

re: #264 Cannadian Club Akbar

I just got my new Martha Stewart Living mag and there is an article on how to throw the perfect tea party. LET'S GET HER!!!
/sorry, someone needed to bring a light comment

/Burn the witch!

274 TampaKnight  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:42:53pm

No one is denying that tea party people have yielded influence. We're just denying that they were a main driving force for Brown in the deep blue state of Mass. These people aren't exactly sitting around watching Fox News while polishing their rifles.

275 Soap_Man  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:42:56pm

re: #268 ckb

It is not "demonization" to point out that his victory party had two people waving "Second American Revolution" flags.

There are WAY more than two. Look at the pictures.

276 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:43:10pm

re: #267 Charles

I don't think I've ever posted a single article about the influence of the tea partiers that didn't immediately provoke dozens of comments telling me I was exaggerating, mistake, hallucinating, crazy, etc. etc.

Meanwhile, the tea party goons have gotten more and more influential in the GOP, and this process is continuing now in Massachusetts.

And the same people who've minimized and pooh-poohed every LGF pos on the matter are still at it.

I agree the tea party goons have become, to my great disgust, very influential in the GOP.

I'm just not yet convinced that Tea Party support for Brown in this particular Massachusetts election means that Brown has drunk the tea-party kool-aid.

277 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:43:23pm

re: #270 WindUpBird

Is it the same deal with MySpace or the one the archeologists dug up.....what was that? Friendster?

278 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:43:27pm

re: #272 Rightwingconspirator

All part of a surprise fail for the Dems. Honestly the Republicans did not pull out the win the Dems practically gave it away, like Bob Dole did in his campaign.

Bob Dole didn't run a bad campiagn, he just didn't have a chance. Coakley shot herself in the foot.

279 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:43:33pm

re: #276 reine.de.tout

I agree the tea party goons have become, to my great disgust, very influential in the GOP.

I'm just not yet convinced that Tea Party support for Brown in this particular Massachusetts election means that Brown has drunk the tea-party kool-aid.

Exactly

280 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:44:06pm

re: #278 WindUpBird

Bob Dole didn't run a bad campiagn, he just didn't have a chance. Coakley shot herself in the foot.

both feet, and maybe some other body parts...

281 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:44:14pm

re: #267 Charles

I don't think I've ever posted a single article about the influence of the tea partiers that didn't immediately provoke dozens of comments telling me I was exaggerating, mistaken, hallucinating, crazy, etc. etc.

Meanwhile, the tea party goons have gotten more and more influential in the GOP, and this process is continuing now in Massachusetts.

And the same people who've minimized and pooh-poohed every LGF post on the matter are still at it.

Please keep doing it!

282 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:44:20pm

re: #248 Charles

I see dozens of these flags in the pictures I linked. Not a "few" at all.

Dozens would be a few in a crowd of hundreds, or however many were at the event. And it still says nothing about the mindset or affiliation of those carrying them.

Sorry, I just can't get myself worked up over this. Maybe if some real evidence shows that the TPers had a real influence on the election's outcome I'll develop some concern. Right now, though, I'm just not seeing it.

What I'm seeing is a group of boneheads glomming on to anything they can call a victory in order to promote themselves, without actually having contributed to that victory in any tangible way.

283 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:44:32pm

re: #278 WindUpBird

Bob Dole didn't run a bad campiagn, he just didn't have a chance. Coakley shot herself in the foot.

IT WAS COLD OUTSIDE!

284 TampaKnight  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:44:33pm

PS Masss. went HEAVY for Obama. I really doubt that within a year they all turned into racist zealots who are dying for more tea party literature.

285 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:44:46pm

re: #276 reine.de.tout


I'm just not yet convinced that Tea Party support for Brown in this particular Massachusetts election means that Brown has drunk the tea-party kool-aid.

Stone the unfaithful Scott-Brown-is-a-teabagger monkey!
/

286 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:44:57pm

re: #276 reine.de.tout

I agree the tea party goons have become, to my great disgust, very influential in the GOP.

I'm just not yet convinced that Tea Party support for Brown in this particular Massachusetts election means that Brown has drunk the tea-party kool-aid.

Brown had the tea poured down his throat. Now he has to spit it out.

287 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:45:00pm

re: #277 Fenway_Nation

Is it the same deal with MySpace or the one the archeologists dug up...what was that? Friendster?

Myspace will let you register under whatever name you want. But its interface is miserable and aggrvating. Friendster is dead. :D

I like Livejournal because it's basically a blogging platform + some social networking that's opt-in. And runs cleanly without a whole bunch of bad code that makes my web browser cry.

288 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:45:54pm

re: #285 Fenway_Nation

Stone the unfaithful Scott-Brown-is-a-teabagger monkey!
/

Again, I'm not worried about Brown. Worried about the TPers being ascendent.

289 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:46:19pm

I would like to see someone wave a 48 star flag at a rally sometime.

They are cool in a rectilinear way.

290 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:46:33pm

re: #239 WindUpBird

Maybe, just maybe...

Obama never actually heard any hate sermons! Maybe it actually wouldn't have been something he would have quietly stood by for.

Lotta assuming going on in the comments here.

You may very well be right if President Obama attended church then as much as he attends now.

291 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:46:40pm

re: #276 reine.de.tout

I agree the tea party goons have become, to my great disgust, very influential in the GOP.

I'm just not yet convinced that Tea Party support for Brown in this particular Massachusetts election means that Brown has drunk the tea-party kool-aid.

Very influential in the GOP? They're also very influential with the Dems. When Independents go for one party over the other by 40pts, that's influence.

292 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:46:41pm

Obama remarked that he felt a certain kinship with Brown -- both men were elected by people who projected their own beliefs and positions and principles on them. And he's largely right.

There's a huge difference, though. Brown has long list of achievements before this race that show a bit of his character. He's a careerist in the National Guard, currently holding the rank of Lt. Colonel in the JAG office. He sponsored a "conscience exclusion" amendment to a bill mandating hospitals provide the "morning after pill" to rape victims, but still voted for the final bill after his amendment failed. He voted for Massachusetts' health care bill, but now regrets it as it falls apart. He won election to the Mass. Senate in 2004 when John Kerry was at the top of the ticket, and had held a lot of lesser offices before.

Brown's a moderate to liberal Republican, which is pretty much the most right you can be and have a prayer of election in Massachusetts. But he's still a Republican.

293 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:46:48pm

re: #20 albusteve

at last he didn't have posters of Che in his campaign offices

That we know of...

294 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:47:19pm

re: #286 wrenchwench

Brown had the tea poured down his throat. Now he has to spit it out.

Could very well be!
And - we'll see what he does, and hope he makes good decisions.
I will be most disappointed if he doesn't.

295 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:47:27pm

re: #288 WindUpBird

Again, I'm not worried about Brown. Worried about the TPers being ascendent.

yep, Palin/Jindal in '12! should alarm most people...it has not come to that yet tho

296 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:47:37pm

re: #289 Ojoe

I would like to see someone wave a 48 star flag at a rally sometime.

They are cool in a rectilinear way.

No you wouldn't

It would open the door for BIRTHERS to say

'see,, Hawaii's not even a STATE, so it doesn't matter if BHO was born there and not Kenya!!"

297 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:47:38pm

re: #278 WindUpBird

Did we see the same campaign? Bob Dole ran a good campaign? From Wiki-Dole promised a 15% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates and made former Congressman and supply side advocate Jack Kemp his running mate. Dole also found himself criticized from both the left and the right within the Republican Party over the convention platform, one of the major issues being the inclusion of the Human Life Amendment.

I can see why a progressive would consider it a good campaign, Clinton won! :)

298 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:48:19pm

re: #296 sattv4u2

Oh well.

It was the flag I was born under though.

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:48:21pm

re: #29 cliffster

Clearly, Scott Brown is a crazy right-wing lunatic.

Well, he is a Republican.

/

300 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:48:27pm

re: #293 SanFranciscoZionist

That we know of...

Perhaps the G. Gordon Liddy Dangerous Dames 2010 Calendar?

301 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:48:42pm

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Scott Brown used the wave of discontent in Mass to ride into the Senate, and the Tea Partiers gave him a push. The time to grill him about Tea Party support was before the election, which the Dems failed to do. At this point, they were just another voting block he used to get elected. His actions will say how much he agrees with them.

Beck hates him, so he can't be all bad right?

It's a good sign.

302 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:48:55pm

re: #298 Ojoe

Oh well.

It was the flag I was born under though.

Couldn't afford a hospital?

303 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:49:20pm

re: #282 SixDegrees

What if Brown attended a fund-raiser sponsored by a Tea Party?

Or attending numerous Tea Party events?

304 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:49:43pm

re: #293 SanFranciscoZionist

That we know of...

there were pre election claims that a G Patton poster was seen in one of the offices...no vids tho

305 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:50:14pm

re: #292 BunnyThief

Wow, you and Charles have a totally opposite view of Brown. I'm Californian so my knowledge of Brown is new and shallow. His more moderate positions are his older ones, he appears to have moved well right of late.

306 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:50:32pm

re: #288 WindUpBird

Again, I'm not worried about Brown. Worried about the TPers being ascendent.

They are ascendant. Are you not at all concerned with the reasons why? Don't you want to deal with the root cause? TPerism is completely preventable.

307 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:50:33pm

re: #302 sattv4u2

No, 'twas in a hospital in Pasadena.

But this I have been told & do not remember directly.

BBL

308 Bob Levin  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:50:59pm

re: #267 Charles

I'd have to agree with #276. If it was any other state besides Mass. I'd be inclined to agree with you regarding their effectiveness.

Of course the Tea Partiers are trying to grow and become more influential. If you list those who are Tea Party bigwigs, like Buchanan, I understand the concern. And with people like Buchanan in the fold, it most definitely is a serious cause for concern.

309 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:51:11pm

re: #41 brookly red

Why is all these free people working together to shape there own futures is so scary to some folks.

Huh?

310 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:51:39pm

re: #289 Ojoe

I would like to see someone wave a 48 star flag at a rally sometime.

They are cool in a rectilinear way.

Well it'd be one way to suggest Obama isn't an American citizen!

311 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:51:50pm

re: #303 Obdicut

What if Brown attended a fund-raiser sponsored by a Tea Party?

Or attending numerous Tea Party events?

then he get their votes same as any fund raiser...

312 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:52:13pm

re: #306 brookly red

They are ascendant. Are you not at all concerned with the reasons why? Don't you want to deal with the root cause? TPerism is completely preventable.

Wish I could give you more than 1 ding. This election was about the over reach of government, overreach and overspend. Just like NJ and VA. That is the one and only over-riding principle at play here. A big chunk of the dem party finally got that realization last night, seems there are still a few stragglers in here wanting to deny reality.

313 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:52:16pm

re: #289 Ojoe

I would like to see someone wave a 48 star flag at a rally sometime.

They are cool in a rectilinear way.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missourah."

-Grandpa Simpson

314 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:52:18pm

re: #280 rwdflynavy

Clearly a head shot.

315 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:52:19pm

re: #307 Ojoe

No, 'twas in a hospital in Pasadena.

But this I have been told & do not remember directly.

BBL

Huntington or St. Lukes?

316 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:52:24pm

re: #306 brookly red

They are ascendant. Are you not at all concerned with the reasons why? Don't you want to deal with the root cause? TPerism is completely preventable.

Not on Halloween night, especially of there are trees in your front yard!
/

317 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:53:05pm

re: #315 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

St. Luke's.

You must be from there too.

318 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:53:31pm

re: #306 brookly red

They are ascendant. Are you not at all concerned with the reasons why? Don't you want to deal with the root cause? TPerism is completely preventable.

How do we fix it then? Or do you have a secret plan you won't reveal till you're elected President?

319 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:53:31pm

re: #306 brookly red

re: #316 sattv4u2

Not on Halloween night, especially of there are trees in your front yard!
/


oh ,,, wait ,,, TP = Tea Party ,,,, NOT Toilet Paper

nevermind!
/

320 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:53:50pm

cya folks.

321 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:53:57pm

re: #267 Charles

Yes....like that guy from the Tea Parties with the home-made explosives in his underwear that tried to self-detonate on that Northwest Airlines flight on Christmas. Good thing we have the ever vigilant Napolitano on the case......
/////

322 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:54:11pm

re: #267 Charles

Confession time. I'm guilty of that. I do underrate the Tea Party as compared to you. But we both hope my view turns out right and the Birchers/racists fall by the wayside. At least we agree in what we want to see. Cut The Fringe.

323 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:54:11pm

re: #203 Charles

President Obama absolutely renounced Rev. Wright in strong, clear terms. I guess that wasn't enough for you.

Something the GOP seems incapable of doing when it comes to Birchers and the like. :(

324 Bob Levin  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:54:17pm

re: #306 brookly red

What's your strategy for mass immunization?

325 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:54:21pm

re: #317 Ojoe

St. Luke's.

You must be from there too.

Yeah, went to HS just down from St Lukes.

326 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:54:25pm

Man I already said BBL.

Got to get some work done, BBL

327 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:54:52pm

re: #293 SanFranciscoZionist

My contacts tell me Pinochet, but no one will speak on record.

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:55:00pm

re: #51 albusteve

I suggested that earlier, but apparently that's no excuse...Brown is gonna get smeared regardless, but we should see how he performs in office...I have my doubts about a military man wanting to over throw the govt if that's the insinuation...it all seeths with overthetopness imo

I'm not sure where you're getting that 'insinuation' from. No one here has implied such a thing as far as I know. As for him not knowing what they are--I'm dubious. They're there in excessive quantities to just have been brought in by a few supporters.

Seriously, what would people, and not just wingnuts, have said if supporters of a Democratic candidate adopted a special variation on the U.S. flag, with an image of revolution? The screaming would have been heard on the mountaintops. In Tibet. Just saying--'oh, ugh' about Brown's tolerance of them is not exactly smearing the man.

329 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:55:22pm

re: #306 brookly red

They are ascendant. Are you not at all concerned with the reasons why? Don't you want to deal with the root cause? TPerism is completely preventable.

Apparently 'root causes' are only worth examining in the case of jihadis interested in pulling off mass casualty attacks against America and western nations......

330 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:55:27pm

re: #318 jamesfirecat

How do we fix it then? Or do you have a secret plan you won't reveal till you're elected President?

vote BO out of office...simplere: #324 Bob Levin

What's your strategy for mass immunization?

by gunpoint obviously...ask me anything

331 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:55:42pm

re: #312 RogueOne

Wish I could give you more than 1 ding. This election was about the over reach of government, overreach and overspend. Just like NJ and VA. That is the one and only over-riding principle at play here. A big chunk of the dem party finally got that realization last night, seems there are still a few stragglers in here wanting to deny reality.


Odd that people are always seeking the root causes of a problem, poverty, drugs, terrorism whatever... but when it come to politics there is no cause & effect only vitriol.

332 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:56:29pm

re: #66 albusteve

maybe the flag is a metaphore...where are you getting this violent overthrow stuff from?

Fuck that. Is there something wrong with the flag of the United States, that they won't wave it?

333 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:56:34pm

re: #330 albusteve

by gunpoint obviously...ask me anything

So your suggestion for dealing with far right nut jobs is to give them what they want?

334 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:57:18pm

re: #72 albusteve

what is Che's claim to fame...do you know?...it's not at all like your analogy imo

Really? How?

335 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:57:42pm

re: #290 generalsparky

You may very well be right if President Obama attended church then as much as he attends now.

Guess who doesn't care if the president attends church or not? ;-)

336 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:57:45pm

re: #332 SanFranciscoZionist

Hah. Best flag point in the whole thread. Super upding. I bow to your wordsmithing today.

337 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:57:47pm

re: #305 Rightwingconspirator

Wow, you and Charles have a totally opposite view of Brown. I'm Californian so my knowledge of Brown is new and shallow. His more moderate positions are his older ones, he appears to have moved well right of late.

I live in a state right next door to MA. I've been casually aware of Brown for years -- right before his daughter was on American Idol.

Gal's got pipes...

Anyway, Brown's no lightweight. Lightweights don't get to be Lt. Col's. Lightweights don't get elected to the State Senate against John Kerry's presidential coattails in Massachusetts.

338 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:57:59pm

re: #332 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck that. Is there something wrong with the flag of the United States, that they won't wave it?

I'm underwhelmed with the whole flag/revolution gig...I'm just a boring guy

339 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:58:13pm

There was an arrest yesterday which demonstrates (again) why nobody in their right mind should associate with the Tea Parties or right wing revolutionaries.....
Domestic Terrorist In Texoma

"We come home and those bastards want to talk about how we're domestic terrorists and a threat to this country. It makes me so angry," said Charles Dyer, who has been accused of committing rape.

Dyer has been charged with first degree rape. When police searched Dyer's home for evidence on that charge, they found a grenade launcher that matched the description of one of three that were reportedly stolen from an Army post in California.

More incriminating evidence against Dyer has surfaced in a YouTube video. The video shows Dyer, a former U.S. Marine, talking proudly about domestic terrorism. "Join the military?", said Dyer. "Depends on what you want to do with it. Me? Im going to use my training and become one of those domestic terrorists that you're so afraid of from the DHS reports."

His youtube channel also has a speech he gave at a Tea Party rally. He's also a member of the Oathkeeper (here's their flag). It's very important to be aware that the grenade launcher he stole was going to be used against Americans. These people are not patriots. They are dangerous lunatics and terrorists.

340 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:58:15pm

re: #335 WindUpBird

I don't either ;-)

341 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:58:31pm

re: #332 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck that. Is there something wrong with the flag of the United States, that they won't wave it?

To them, there is. The wrong guy is president, so they can't wave it.

342 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:58:47pm

re: #78 brookly red

No, I think every one knows what they stand for, revolution simply means change. Obama ran on change. Nowhere is violence implied... now if the flags had a ring of stars with a fist holding up a rifle THAT would change things.

No, people would just say they were supporting the Second Amendment. Which, BTW, is on the manufacturer's site as another significance of the II.

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:59:13pm

re: #82 albusteve

I see nothing there about a second revolution...fight for liberty, so what...that's a constant given

Represented by the real flag.

344 philosophus invidius  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:59:39pm

Maybe Brown just found the Tea Partiers to be convenient working his way up--just like Obama found his association with Rev. Wright to be convenient working his way up in Chicago. Hopefully Brown will through the tea partiers under the bus too.

345 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:00:01pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

There was an arrest yesterday which demonstrates (again) why nobody in their right mind should associate with the Tea Parties or right wing revolutionaries...
Domestic Terrorist In Texoma

His youtube channel also has a speech he gave at a Tea Party rally. He's also a member of the Oathkeeper (here's their flag). It's very important to be aware that the grenade launcher he stole was going to be used against Americans. These people are not patriots. They are dangerous lunatics and terrorists.

Holy shit Killgore. Good find.

346 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:00:11pm

re: #341 WindUpBird

To them, there is. The wrong guy is president, so they can't wave it.

Yeah.....I bet you went through a bunch of star-spangled banners circa 2000-2008.

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:00:13pm

re: #97 TampaKnight

It's amazing how one little stupid flag has suddenly becoming the entire talking point and reason that Brown won in the deep bluest state of the nation.

Eh? It's not why he won. It's just sort of tacky.

348 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:00:24pm

re: #296 sattv4u2

No you wouldn't

It would open the door for BIRTHERS to say

'see,, Hawaii's not even a STATE, so it doesn't matter if BHO was born there and not Kenya!!"

On the other hand, that'd put up a hell of an obstacle to Sarah Palin... if Alaska isn't a state either, then she fails the "citizen for the last XX years" requirement.

349 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:00:36pm

re: #324 Bob Levin

What's your strategy for mass immunization?

lower taxes & a smaller more responsive, transparent government can be applied locally for fast temporary relief for most symptoms, but this is only a treatment their is no cure... & it must be repeated regularly.

350 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:00:47pm

re: #306 brookly red

They are ascendant. Are you not at all concerned with the reasons why? Don't you want to deal with the root cause? TPerism is completely preventable.

I know the reason why. Republicans are weakened, a black Democrat is in the white house, there's an opportunity for crazyass populism to take over the weakened Republican party.

351 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:00:51pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

Represented by the real flag.

people can wave any flag they want...if you are freaked out about it that's your business...I'm not worried about armed revolt

352 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:01:11pm

re: #346 Fenway_Nation

I did.

353 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:01:33pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh? It's not why he won. It's just sort of tacky.

Bingo.

354 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:01:36pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

WHOA. That's terrifying.

355 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:02:21pm

Anyone want a talkshow? Cheap?

This is a chance of a lifetime to own your very own late night talk show--guaranteed to last for up to seven months!! Really must see to appreciate.

356 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:02:41pm

re: #349 brookly red

lower taxes & a smaller more responsive, transparent government can be applied locally for fast temporary relief for most symptoms, but this is only a treatment their is no cure... & it must be repeated regularly.

At what point are Taxes "low enough" by the way?

357 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:02:50pm

re: #352 Obdicut

I did.

I'm still going through them.....wind and percipitation is playing havoc with them.

358 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:03:10pm

re: #337 BunnyThief

I believe you about his stature or gravitas. Look I could google up his record but that's stats shallow. Apart from your 292 Why do you think I can depend on him to be a moderate?

359 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:03:41pm

re: #121 captdiggs

Very thin ice to demonize over.
Kind of like demonizing Obama because Code Pink loves him.

Has anyone here demonized Brown?

360 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:03:52pm

re: #357 Fenway_Nation

So how about not implying that SanFranciscoZionist wouldn't fly the US flag when Bush was president, it's kind of a dick move?

361 SixDegrees  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:04:19pm

Are we sure the Betsy Ross flag modification isn't a shout-out to Spinal Tap? /

362 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:04:21pm

re: #356 jamesfirecat

At what point are Taxes "low enough" by the way?

At what point are taxes "high enough"? My already-meager paycheck from temping managed to get even smaller since November.

363 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:05:17pm

re: #136 Bubblehead II

re: #126 reine.de.tout

I thought they were behind him up until he started pushing for a surge in Afghanistan. It was only after that did their support evaporate. Am I wrong?

It drive the nail into the coffin. They were getting antsy before that.

364 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:05:58pm

re: #360 Obdicut

So how about not implying that SanFranciscoZionist wouldn't fly the US flag when Bush was president, it's kind of a dick move?

Umm......let's see.

1) That was directed at Wind-Up-Bird and

2) Pay the fuck attention.....

365 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:06:10pm

re: #363 SanFranciscoZionist

It drive the nail into the coffin. They were getting antsy before that.

The Far Left felt Left out.

366 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:06:24pm

re: #350 WindUpBird

I know the reason why. Republicans are weakened, a black Democrat is in the white house, there's an opportunity for crazyass populism to take over the weakened Republican party.

So crazyass populism occurs in nature? or are you just gonna cry raaaacism?

or maybe just a whole lot of people want a whole lot more control of their live & livelihoods.

367 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:06:27pm

re: #346 Fenway_Nation

Yeah...I bet you went through a bunch of star-spangled banners circa 2000-2008.

Well, I own one, I didn't wave it on the eve of the Iraq invasion, if that's what you're implying. But sheesh, if I didn't like the flag, I'd have to throw away a lot of my rock posters that make use of flag imagery. And my Jasper Johns print, which is one of my favorite paintings of all time: Image: flag.jpg

368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:06:35pm

Turns out a friend of mine was a High School friend with one of the women murdered near Appomattox last night. Her husband and child were killed also.

369 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:06:47pm

re: #345 Stanley Sea

Here's his Tea Party speech....
July4patriot @ the Broken Arrow Oklahoma tea party Part 2/2


The article also fails to mention that he's accused of forced sodomy on a child.

370 Bob Levin  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:07:11pm

re: #349 brookly red

In other words, keep them on the fringe of the fringe. Economic conservatives have to stand up and not let themselves be labeled as RINOs or whatever derogatory term social conservatives will use.

I'd like to see that, but it's logistically very difficult.

371 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:07:24pm

re: #358 Rightwingconspirator

I believe you about his stature or gravitas. Look I could google up his record but that's stats shallow. Apart from your 292 Why do you think I can depend on him to be a moderate?

Well, he's been one so far, RWC, and he's gotta stand for re-election in two years in Massachusetts. Massachusetts, with 51% independent, 37% Democrat, and 11% Republican voter registrations. Massachusetts, where (until he's sworn in) Dems hold the entire Congressional delegation, every single statewide office, and over 85% of each House of the legislature.

If he has any kind of political survival instinct, he'll stay moderate. He doesn't strike me as a "stealth" anything -- he's pretty WYSIWYG to me.

372 Kragar  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:07:46pm

Off to enjoy another day of driving across a bridge in 20-30 mph winds. Be seeing you.

373 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:08:19pm

re: #364 Fenway_Nation

Whatever. It's still a dick move.

374 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:08:24pm

re: #362 Fenway_Nation

At what point are taxes "high enough"? My already-meager paycheck from temping managed to get even smaller since November.

Well at the moment the top tax bracket for the rich is at 35% for money maid about the first $372,951 where as people earning more than what amounts to $16 million in 2007 dollars were taxed 77%.

How much do you think its fair to tax multimillionars on their income? I'd be willing to go 50% about 50 million personally...

375 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:08:36pm

re: #192 brookly red

/the real irony is that those flags are most likely made in China...

Actually, they do seem to seek out American labor, which is the only kind thing I have to say about that outfit.

376 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:09:06pm

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yikes- I'm sorry to hear that, FBV.

377 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:09:11pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

I sure hope the ATF & FBI watch a lot of you tube. Watch the crazy, get a warrant, get to work and we all breathe easier. OMG. Hey how deep are felon/militia connection to the Tea Party? A few fringe guys or pervasive?

378 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:09:16pm

re: #356 jamesfirecat

At what point are Taxes "low enough" by the way?

when they support only the functions of government that are listed in the Constitution... and not one cent more OK smartipants?

379 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:09:34pm

re: #373 Obdicut

Whatever. It's still a dick move.

At least pay attention.

380 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:09:59pm

re: #378 brookly red

when they support only the functions of government that are listed in the Constitution... and not one cent more OK smartipants?

What if the constitution is amended to include more functions?

381 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:10:33pm

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Turns out a friend of mine was a High School friend with one of the women murdered near Appomattox last night. Her husband and child were killed also.

Fuck ,, sorry FVB!

382 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:10:40pm

re: #380 jamesfirecat

What if the constitution is amended to include more functions?

moot. it hasn't been. next.

383 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:10:58pm

re: #379 Walter L. Newton

At least pay attention.

How much does that cost !?!?!

384 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:11:01pm

re: #380 jamesfirecat

What if the constitution is amended to include more functions?

Well, since we are not talking about amendments, and BR is talking about the constitution as it stands now, why don't you stop making up shit and stick to the question.

385 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:11:12pm

re: #382 brookly red

Do you think that the Supreme Court is the body empowered to decide what is constitutional?

386 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:11:23pm

Kinda wish CapeCoddah was here. Cape knows Brown, worked with his campaign. Probably could help.

387 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:11:24pm

re: #382 brookly red

moot. it hasn't been. next.

But if it could be would it be okay to tax people for those things?

Also what things is the government currently doing that you feel aren't covered by the constitution?

388 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:11:31pm

re: #274 TampaKnight

No one is denying that tea party people have yielded influence. We're just denying that they were a main driving force for Brown in the deep blue state of Mass. These people aren't exactly sitting around watching Fox News while polishing their rifles.

NTTAWWT

389 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:11:42pm

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

prayers for the family...

390 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:11:42pm

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh no! I am so sorry to hear that FBV.

391 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:11:46pm

re: #374 jamesfirecat

Dunno......don't want whoever it is signing my paychecks to be poorer than me or punished by the gov't for turning a profit, which is why I don't play the class warfare card.

Marsha Croakley should've probably followed that advice at some point in the last 30 days or so.

392 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:11:56pm

re: #356 jamesfirecat

At what point are Taxes "low enough" by the way?

Ever notice that "tax cuts" are considered temporary, but "tax hikes" are permanent? Remember the talk about "letting the Bush tax cuts expire?" The underlying presumptions were that the lowered level was artificial, the higher level "natural," and simply letting the tax rate return wasn't a tax hike.

Just try explaining to folks that "you're paying more this year, but it isn't a tax hike..."

393 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:13:10pm

re: #387 jamesfirecat

But if it could be would it be okay to tax people for those things?

Also what things is the government currently doing that you feel aren't covered by the constitution?

Stick to the actual subject and stop making up shit. We are dealing with the current constitution. Making up shit is usually the tactic used when you can't intelligently deal with the subject as it stands. If you can't answer the question, just say so and we'll go on to something else. But you don't have to make up shit just to get in the last word. It looks stupid and you are not fooling anyone.

394 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:13:23pm

re: #392 BunnyThief

Ever notice that "tax cuts" are considered temporary, but "tax hikes" are permanent?

No, since it's not a true statement. There have been plenty of permanent tax cuts.

395 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:14:08pm

re: #377 Rightwingconspirator

A few fringe guys or pervasive?

Pervasive...jeez- haven't you been paying attention?

Everybody who doesn't like Obama's policies is a right-wing racist tea-bagging nirther homophobe who's been stockpiling leathal weaponry for the inevitable killing spree because they're so gosh darn unhinged by the good governance we've been seeing in the last year or so......

///

396 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:14:26pm

re: #385 Obdicut

Do you think that the Supreme Court is the body empowered to decide what is constitutional?

up to and until it is overridden by a 2/3s majority in both houses IIRC but again only in the instance of appeals.

397 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:14:40pm

re: #391 Fenway_Nation

Dunno...don't want whoever it is signing my paychecks to be poorer than me or punished by the gov't for turning a profit, which is why I don't play the class warfare card.

Marsha Croakley should've probably followed that advice at some point in the last 30 days or so.

Umm, do you know how progressive taxation works? Your income up to a certain point is taxed as a rate, and then income above that rate is taxed higher.

The first $8,375 is only taxed 10%

Then any more money you make until you hit $34,000 is taxed 20% and after that money made up to $82,400 is taxed 25%


Only money made above and beyond 50 milllion would be taxed 50% in my suggestion, so there's no way that higher progressive tax rates can cause someone to end up with less money at the end of the process than someone who made less going into it...

398 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:14:44pm

re: #346 Fenway_Nation

Yeah...I bet you went through a bunch of star-spangled banners circa 2000-2008.

That's a hell of a big assumption you're making there.

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:15:25pm

re: #351 albusteve

people can wave any flag they want...if you are freaked out about it that's your business...I'm not worried about armed revolt

I wasn't either, until you brought it up...AAAAAH!!!!!

400 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:15:37pm

re: #393 Walter L. Newton

Stick to the actual subject and stop making up shit. We are dealing with the current constitution. Making up shit is usually the tactic used when you can't intelligently deal with the subject as it stands. If you can't answer the question, just say so and we'll go on to something else. But you don't have to make up shit just to get in the last word. It looks stupid and you are not fooling anyone.

What is the question that I'm suppose to be answering exactly?

If you mean "when are taxes too high" I'd suggest if people are getting taxed more than 50% of their earnings at any pay level for income tax.

Does that answer it?

401 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:15:52pm

re: #396 brookly red

Okay. So given that the Supreme Court has ruled that many things not explicitly laid out in the constitution are, in fact, constitutionally allowed to the government, isn't your argument a little self-contradictory?

402 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:16:05pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

That's a hell of a big assumption you're making there.

Considering how many of Obama's supporters found JesusPatriotism only sometime after November 8, 2008....I'd say no, it's not that much of a stretch.

403 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:16:20pm

re: #377 Rightwingconspirator

Hey how deep are felon/militia connection to the Tea Party? A few fringe guys or pervasive?

They are very active in the Tea Party movement. google; Oathkeepers Tea Party. There are hours and hours of them speaking at Tea Parties and even publicly stating their oath to overthrow the government in front of very large Tea Party crowds and receiving applause for doing so.

404 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:16:38pm

re: #400 jamesfirecat

What is the question that I'm suppose to be answering exactly?

If you mean "when are taxes too high" I'd suggest if people are getting taxed more than 50% of their earnings at any pay level for income tax.

Does that answer it?

But you are happy it everyone would be taxed at 50 percent?

405 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:16:39pm

re: #387 jamesfirecat

But if it could be would it be okay to tax people for those things?

Also what things is the government currently doing that you feel aren't covered by the constitution?

It a simple document, read it.

406 Kruk  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:18:02pm

re: #296 sattv4u2

No you wouldn't

It would open the door for BIRTHERS to say

'see,, Hawaii's not even a STATE, so it doesn't matter if BHO was born there and not Kenya!!"

Heh. I love the number of fall back positions the Birthers have:

"BHO was not born in Hawaii, but even if he was Hawaii wasn't a state at the time he was born, but even if it was a state he wouldn't be eligible because he was a dual citizen under British law, but even if foreign law doesn't apply a natural born citizen has to be the child of two citizens, but even if one citizen parent is enough his mother wasn't old enough to transfer her citizenship to him, but even if he was a citizen at birth his mother renounced his citizenship to enroll him in a Indonesian madrassa. So there!"

PS: Did I miss anything out? Not including the theories that involve him being a alien (the other space kind, not the illegal kind), a Manchurian candidate or the Antichrist, I mean. I don't want to suggest the Birthers are crazy or anything.

PPS: If Obama *was* the Antichrist, would he be disqualified under the seperation of Church and State? I would love to see the SCOTUS take up that one.

407 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:18:12pm

re: #400 jamesfirecat

What is the question that I'm suppose to be answering exactly?

If you mean "when are taxes too high" I'd suggest if people are getting taxed more than 50% of their earnings at any pay level for income tax.

Does that answer it?

50%!?!?!

Is that just federal, or combined with state/county/city!?!?

AND ,,,,, think about what you're okay with


out of every 2 dollars you earn, someone has the right to one of them!

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:18:24pm

re: #365 Rightwingconspirator

The Far Left felt Left out.

They expected some stuff they weren't going to get. They backed Obama on the strenght of that. They didn't get the stuff they wanted. They got mad.

The far left is like the religious right. They won't support the other guy, but they may not support their guy either, unless he offers them stuff. Usually, it's stuff they can't have, really. The religious right is better at playing politics, and the Republicans are better at playing them. On the Democrat's side of the aisle, it's still very much amateur hour.

409 Bagua  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:18:53pm

I coulda said it wasn't in my way
But I didn't and I wonder why
I feel like letting my freak flag fly
Cause I feel like I owe it to someone

410 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:19:28pm

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Turns out a friend of mine was a High School friend with one of the women murdered near Appomattox last night. Her husband and child were killed also.

God, I'm so sorry to hear that. Thoughts and prayers.

411 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:19:33pm

Hey Evening Lizards!

At this point I'd be happy with any political candiate that has no interest in what happens in my bedroom and considers my checkbook MINE. Finding that in one person may be too much to ask.

How are you-all?

412 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:19:45pm

re: #401 Obdicut

Okay. So given that the Supreme Court has ruled that many things not explicitly laid out in the constitution are, in fact, constitutionally allowed to the government, isn't your argument a little self-contradictory?

no, if challenged by the appeal process Congress can over ride... plus the court reverses it self frequently... but rather that bait me, why not read a nice book, I would suggest the one by Mark Levin.

413 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:20:04pm

re: #406 Kruk

PPS: If Obama *was* the Antichrist, would he be disqualified under the seperation of Church and State? I would love to see the SCOTUS take up that one.

Chief Justice of SCOTUS

"And who here speaks for Beelzabub!?!"

/

414 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:20:35pm

re: #402 Fenway_Nation

Yep. My very liberal inlaws haven't attended an anti-war rally since President Obama took office. They attended several while President Bush was in office and their own son is in the military!

I don't get it. Just like I don't get the scumbags that protest outside of military installations. I am all for protesting the government. But take that shit to Washington or to the offices of the elected officials instead of terrorizing the families of people just trying to do their jobs and can't change policies!

415 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:20:40pm

re: #404 Walter L. Newton

But you are happy it everyone would be taxed at 50 percent?

No I'm not. I think that lower amounts of money should be taxed less like the current progressively layered income tax system that we currently have.

I think that no one who is making more than a million dollars should be taxed more than 40% in any condition barring rapid inflation.

People earning less than 500,000 shouldn't be taxed more than 30%

People earning less than 100,000 should be taxed more than 20 percent.

People earning more than 50,000 should be taxed more than 15%

And as for left than 50,000 is complicated minuta that I don't feel like going into at the moment.

These are just numbers I made up off the top of my head but I feel they're one possible place to start from, what do you think of them?

416 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:20:48pm

re: #263 WindUpBird

Sorry I passed over this earlier-
You have seen me post on a fair range of topics. I think you will get this. I would feel like or flat out be a hypocrite if I was still an active Republican. I tried the "work from within" thing. That did not go so well. So I'm out. So indy is what I got. Anyway screw the labels. The best of us vote on our priciples and a mindful self interest rather than partisan party line. I would never be an old school "just pull the handle" guy.

Uh, for you young voters, there used to be a lever on the voting machine for straight party voting in one move. Fast, convenient and gone I think.

417 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:21:20pm

re: #407 sattv4u2

50%!?!?!

Is that just federal, or combined with state/county/city!?!?

AND ,,, think about what you're okay with

out of every 2 dollars you earn, someone has the right to one of them!

For every two dollars I earn ABOVE 50 million, I think I could handle giving one away.

418 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:21:45pm

re: #413 sattv4u2

PPS: If Obama *was* the Antichrist, would he be disqualified under the seperation of Church and State? I would love to see the SCOTUS take up that one.

Chief Justice of SCOTUS

"And who here speaks for Beelzabub!?!"

/

Louis Cypher Esq. at your service yer honer...

419 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:21:47pm

re: #414 generalsparky

With progressives, it's all about feelings and intentions, not actual real-world results.

Particularly ones that they have to live with.

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:22:20pm

re: #402 Fenway_Nation

Considering how many of Obama's supporters found JesusPatriotism only sometime after November 8, 2008...I'd say no, it's not that much of a stretch.

All right, it's a flat-out insult, implying that liberals didn't care about the country under Bush. That's incorrect, and frankly, kind of shabby.

421 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:22:38pm

re: #412 brookly red

I'm honestly not baiting you. I'm pointing out to you that what you're arguing against is a long, long sequence of Supreme Court decisions, and that one of the thing spelled out in the Constitution is that the Supreme Court decides those issues.

422 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:22:41pm

re: #417 jamesfirecat

For every two dollars I earn ABOVE 50 million, I think I could handle giving one away.

How about you be allowed to keep and invest it, and you know ,, create JOBS!

423 Bob Levin  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:22:42pm

re: #380 jamesfirecat

The key concepts here are 'small' and 'responsive' applied to government. And the notion that the first step in effective problem solving is not necessarily the government.

424 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:22:56pm

re: #374 jamesfirecat

Well at the moment the top tax bracket for the rich is at 35% for money maid about the first $372,951 where as people earning more than what amounts to $16 million in 2007 dollars were taxed 77%.

How much do you think its fair to tax multimillionars on their income? I'd be willing to go 50% about 50 million personally...


Why should the multimillionairres be taxed at any greater rate than anyone else that EARNS their money? I'd rather their money be out in the market doing what money does in the market than going into the pockets of s of government.

425 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:22:59pm

re: #417 jamesfirecat

Wow....you're very generous with other people's money!

426 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:23:12pm

re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist

All right, it's a flat-out insult, implying that liberals didn't care about the country under Bush. That's incorrect, and frankly, kind of shabby.

I agree, I think being a patriot means different things to different people...

427 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:23:15pm

re: #406 Kruk


PPS: If Obama *was* the Antichrist, would he be disqualified under the seperation of Church and State? I would love to see the SCOTUS take up that one.

Well, you can be, say, a deacon at your church and hold office. This isn't so different, except that, you know, it is.

428 huggy77  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:23:29pm

I have been to the NJ tea parties. The main theme was smaller government and lower taxes. There where no white hoods. No armed rebels. There where parents with children.

429 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:23:34pm

re: #421 Obdicut

I'm honestly not baiting you. I'm pointing out to you that what you're arguing against is a long, long sequence of Supreme Court decisions, and that one of the thing spelled out in the Constitution is that the Supreme Court decides those issues.

and this is relevant to the thread because?

430 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:23:49pm

re: #425 Fenway_Nation

Wow...you're very generous with other people's money!

Who isn't?

431 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:24:12pm

re: #417 jamesfirecat

For every two dollars I earn ABOVE 50 million, I think I could handle giving one away.

Nobody's stopping you from giving it away. But we're talking about taking it away, essentially at gunpoint.

432 Kruk  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:24:15pm

re: #413 sattv4u2

PPS: If Obama *was* the Antichrist, would he be disqualified under the seperation of Church and State? I would love to see the SCOTUS take up that one.

Chief Justice of SCOTUS

"And who here speaks for Beelzabub!?!"

/

The Devil's Advocate, natch.

Also, what would the case be called? The Great Satan vs The Real Satan? (With The Real Satan also sueing for copyright infringement.)

433 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:24:26pm

re: #417 jamesfirecat

No sense raising taxes as long as it costs $1.40 to spend a dollar. Ya just dig a deeper hole.

434 The Survilist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:24:38pm

Well time to invoke the Bubblehead II rule and call it night. On a good note, just heard on the scanner that a potential jumper off the Perrine Bridge did in fact go over the side.

He was a Base Jumper. Twin Falls City/County is one of the few that allow Base Jumping off of bridges under their jurisdiction.

May you all have a good night.

L8R

435 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:24:47pm

re: #415 jamesfirecat

No I'm not. I think that lower amounts of money should be taxed less like the current progressively layered income tax system that we currently have.

I think that no one who is making more than a million dollars should be taxed more than 40% in any condition barring rapid inflation.

People earning less than 500,000 shouldn't be taxed more than 30%

People earning less than 100,000 should be taxed more than 20 percent.

People earning more than 50,000 should be taxed more than 15%

And as for left than 50,000 is complicated minuta that I don't feel like going into at the moment.

These are just numbers I made up off the top of my head but I feel they're one possible place to start from, what do you think of them?

Don't change the subject... then why did you suggest "If you mean "I'd suggest if people are getting taxed more than 50% of their earnings at any pay level for income tax."

You either meant that or you didn't. Don't try to throw this back into my lap. You're the one that made the statement, I asked you for an explanation as to why you made this statement and why 50 percent is ok wit you.

Now, are you going to tell me why?

436 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:25:44pm

Wow! 52% of Massachusetts voters are in bed with right wing radicals? I did not know that.

Just in case you missed the dripping sarcasm - this thread is pure nontroversy. "Tea party" despite the more nutty hangers on and organizers also attracts many mainstream folk who are just fed up with big brother government.

I am willing to bet that half the people holding those flags didn't know they were used to represent the second American Revolution (I didn't until it was pointed out here). Even then many would describe their revolutionary sentiments as wanting to return to more conservative government principles in a peaceful legal way. Like they did at the ballot box yesterday.

IOW- If you see militia bogeymen at every political rally plotting to violently overthrow the government you may need to loosen your tinfoil hat.

437 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:25:53pm

I gotta head for home. See you all later.

438 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:26:02pm

re: #424 ggt

Why should the multimillionairres be taxed at any greater rate than anyone else that EARNS their money? I'd rather their money be out in the market doing what money does in the market than going into the pockets of s of government.

They should be taxed at a greater rate for money above a certain level because they can afoard to loose that money, if they don't like only getting to keep 75 million when they make 100 then put their heads to work and make 200 million!

Or they can "go galt" and move to another country with lower tax rates if it such a burden on them.

439 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:26:22pm

re: #428 huggy77

I have been to the NJ tea parties. The main theme was smaller government and lower taxes. There where no white hoods. No armed rebels. There where parents with children.

Oh Noez!

440 Ateam  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:26:23pm

With all due respect to the fact that I'm not familiar to the many faces of the American daily life, I found myself wonder from around the half globe distance how you could put an empty suite into WH.

And how MA (R) Brown victory supposed to change everything. After all, tenth of millions poor Americans don't have access to needed Med services. like in Tahiti.

But thank yo 4 being. With out USA there'll no civilized planet EARTH.

441 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:26:24pm

Please don't forget that corporate taxes are also passed on to the consumer by way of higher prices for goods and services.

The one form of trickle down economics no one can argue with.

442 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:26:33pm

re: #417 jamesfirecat

For every two dollars I earn ABOVE 50 million, I think I could handle giving one away.

Spoken just like someone who doesn't make ABOVE 50 million.

443 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:26:36pm

re: #437 SanFranciscoZionist

I gotta head for home. See you all later.

Be safe

444 webevintage  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:26:45pm

re: #305 Rightwingconspirator

Wow, you and Charles have a totally opposite view of Brown. I'm Californian so my knowledge of Brown is new and shallow. His more moderate positions are his older ones, he appears to have moved well right of late.

I have a feeling that in 2012 MA voters might be feeling a bit of buyers remorse...

445 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:27:13pm

re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist

All right, it's a flat-out insult, implying that liberals didn't care about the country under Bush. That's incorrect, and frankly, kind of shabby.

And lazy-ass broad-brushing of opponents of Obama's policies as tea-baggers and dangerous militants isn't shabby?

446 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:27:23pm

re: #438 jamesfirecat

They should be taxed at a greater rate for money above a certain level because they can afoard to loose that money, if they don't like only getting to keep 75 million when they make 100 then put their heads to work and make 200 million!

Or they can "go galt" and move to another country with lower tax rates if it such a burden on them.

& by each according to their ability huh?

447 prairiefire  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:27:53pm

re: #441 BruceKelly

Hi Bruce! Thanks again for all of the great Mott music.

448 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:28:12pm

re: #430 jamesfirecat

Who isn't?

I'm not. I don't want you giving your money away to me. I don't want you giving your money away to anyone. I want you to keep your money and enjoy it.

You don't really have any clue to what you are talking about, otherwise you would not be answering these questions with stupid little quips like "Who isn't."

You have no answer, you have no understanding of what you are talking about and you are no better than a little child who keeps repeating "why not."

Lame.

449 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:28:14pm

re: #444 webevintage

I have a feeling that in 2012 MA voters might be feeling a bit of buyers remorse...

Much like America now.

450 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:28:35pm

re: #417 jamesfirecat

For every two dollars I earn ABOVE 50 million, I think I could handle giving one away.

Does that include corporations who invest in materials and pay employees?

Profit or income?

451 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:29:20pm

re: #397 jamesfirecat

Umm, do you know how progressive taxation works? Your income up to a certain point is taxed as a rate, and then income above that rate is taxed higher.

The first $8,375 is only taxed 10%

Then any more money you make until you hit $34,000 is taxed 20% and after that money made up to $82,400 is taxed 25%


Only money made above and beyond 50 milllion would be taxed 50% in my suggestion, so there's no way that higher progressive tax rates can cause someone to end up with less money at the end of the process than someone who made less going into it...

Except that the person earning $8375, still has FICA, medicare, and State taxes to pay. It still doesn't give them much to take home. Personally, I think low wage earners should be taxed for FICA and medical only. Their 10% dosen't ad up to enough to support a senator's exopense account.

452 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:29:29pm

re: #431 BunnyThief

Nobody's stopping you from giving it away. But we're talking about taking it away, essentially at gunpoint.

Well money is always going to be taken away from us at Gunpoint, that is what taxes are. If you don't like it go live in the Wilderness or some "nation" without taxes.

Besides 50% at 50 million would seem like a real deal to the people of 1933 through 1981 given that they had a top tax bracket which taxed them consistently higher than 60% sometimes reaching even 94% during World War 2!

453 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:29:41pm

re: #449 Racer X

Much like America now.

Including Massachusetts, apparently.

/or was it Massachusettes?

454 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:29:51pm

re: #444 webevintage

I have a feeling that in 2012 MA voters might be feeling a bit of buyers remorse...

Only those who don't realize just how bad Marsha Chokeley is... or would have been.

455 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:30:04pm

re: #438 jamesfirecat

Who is up for hard choices on spending and then talking tax policy? Seriously, first things first. Every revenue increase gets overcome by spending. Except Reagan a Governor I think. As President we got bigger revenues and still deficit spending. I'll always think well of Bush41 for the spending cap agree ment at severe political cost. Arguably cost him re-election. But he did it.

Time flies I'm off to get home under the rain.
BBL

456 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:30:18pm

re: #436 DaddyG

I could only upding you once

:(

457 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:30:22pm

re: #452 jamesfirecat

Well money is always going to be taken away from us at Gunpoint, that is what taxes are. If you don't like it go live in the Wilderness or some "nation" without taxes.

Besides 50% at 50 million would seem like a real deal to the people of 1933 through 1981 given that they had a top tax bracket which taxed them consistently higher than 60% sometimes reaching even 94% during World War 2!

"Gunpoint...?"

Gaze.

458 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:30:34pm

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Turns out a friend of mine was a High School friend with one of the women murdered near Appomattox last night. Her husband and child were killed also.

FBV - talked to my dad today who used to live in Appomattox. His good friend is a neighbor of the killer. "Never noticed anything odd"

Such a horrible scene.

459 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:30:42pm

re: #441 BruceKelly

Please don't forget that corporate taxes are also passed on to the consumer by way of higher prices for goods and services.

The one form of trickle down economics no one can argue with.

And, buyers are taxed when they purchase those goods.

460 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:09pm

re: #442 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Spoken just like someone who doesn't make ABOVE 50 million.

You're point being? What I proposed is a more or less reasonable tax ceiling given that the Greatest Generation had to put up with one that was over 60% at the top tax bracket....

461 Bagua  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:18pm

re: #417 jamesfirecat

For every two dollars I earn ABOVE 50 million, I think I could handle giving one away.

Anecdotal evidence alert: All of the multi-millionaires I know are looking for investment opportunities that have lower taxation, thus, if they do projects in the US at all they focus on states with lower tax and if they are going to build a factory, it is never in the US.

Weird how they seem to intuitively have this reaction.

462 Neutral President  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:27pm

re: #457 Walter L. Newton

"Gunpoint...?"

Gaze.

Try not paying them.

463 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:28pm

re: #447 prairiefire

Hi Bruce! Thanks again for all of the great Mott music.

No prob. I'll try to upload a zip file to my server so you can download more. I need to test it out. Don't want to p*off my hosting service.

464 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:29pm

re: #452 jamesfirecat

Besides 50% at 50 million would seem like a real deal to the people of 1933 through 1981

Ya think 35% would have seemed like a better deal !?!?!

465 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:45pm

re: #460 jamesfirecat

Gaze.

466 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:46pm

re: #450 DaddyG

I'm guessing the cat doesn't know the difference.

467 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:53pm

re: #451 ggt

Except that the person earning $8375, still has FICA, medicare, and State taxes to pay. It still doesn't give them much to take home. Personally, I think low wage earners should be taxed for FICA and medical only. Their 10% dosen't ad up to enough to support a senator's exopense account.

So then lets decrease the amount we tax the poor and increase the amount we tax the rich like in my 50% for 50 million idea...

468 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:54pm

re: #459 MandyManners

But I'm sure that won't happen when the White House passes on taxes from banks that paid back their TARP funds with interest.
//////

469 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:31:59pm

re: #459 MandyManners

And, buyers are taxed when they purchase those goods.

too much tax, period. what to do??? what to do???

470 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:32:31pm

re: #456 sattv4u2

I could only upding you once

:(

I added another for him ;-)

471 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:32:50pm

re: #460 jamesfirecat

You're point being? What I proposed is a more or less reasonable tax ceiling given that the Greatest Generation had to put up with one that was over 60% at the top tax bracket...

So fucking what?

472 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:32:53pm

re: #469 brookly red

too much tax, period. what to do??? what to do???


MORE taxes- duh!

473 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:33:01pm

re: #468 Fenway_Nation

But I'm sure that won't happen when the White House passes on taxes from banks that paid back their TARP funds with interest.
///

my unicorn needs a plasma TV!

474 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:33:08pm

re: #457 Walter L. Newton

"Gunpoint...?"

Gaze.

What for mistakenly making it upper case?

I was responding to "Nobody's stopping you from giving it away. But we're talking about taking it away, essentially at gunpoint."

475 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:34:14pm

re: #467 jamesfirecat

So then lets decrease the amount we tax the poor and increase the amount we tax the rich like in my 50% for 50 million idea...

What a great idea. What wonderful incentive for someone making 49 million to work harder and be more productive and make 50 million!!!

((wait ,, WHAT !?!?!?)

476 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:34:21pm

re: #462 ArchangelMichael

Try not paying them.

You could get a position in the Obama Administration!

477 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:34:38pm

re: #449 Racer X

Much like America now.

Ouch. That'll leave a mark.

478 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:34:51pm

re: #476 generalsparky

You could get a position in the Obama Administration!

Cabinet, even

479 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:35:06pm

re: #462 ArchangelMichael

Try not paying them.

Stop being emo. Of course, if you start threatening the government, if you start stockpiling weapons and dare federal agents from coming on to you property, if you rattle their cage and be purposely an agitator, you're going to get a visit from people who are going to be prepared to protect themselves.

Joan Q citizen who has tax problems, or who just refuse to cooperate with the IRS, at the most go to jail. How many shoot outs have you seen in your neighborhood last year.

Stop the silly dramatics, it show a real lack of intelligence.

480 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:35:19pm

re: #475 sattv4u2

What a great idea. What wonderful incentive for someone making 49 million to work harder and be more productive and make 50 million!!!

((wait ,, WHAT !?!?!?)

What? If they made 50 million they'd still make more money than if they made 49 because we tax them on a progressive level. Why do some many people not seem to grasp this?

481 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:35:23pm

teh haid...it splodes

482 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:35:23pm

re: #474 jamesfirecat

Gaze.

483 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:35:31pm

Just a flyby soapbox screed kind of night... BBL

484 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:35:51pm

/OK gotta meet my militia buddies for a beer now... keep up the oppression for me while I am gone OK?

485 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:36:13pm

re: #438 jamesfirecat

They should be taxed at a greater rate for money above a certain level because they can afoard to loose that money, if they don't like only getting to keep 75 million when they make 100 then put their heads to work and make 200 million!

Or they can "go galt" and move to another country with lower tax rates if it such a burden on them.

What makes you think they can afford to lose it? That money could represent payroll for a floundering company they own. Or construction of a skyscraper they've contracted. It's not up to government or anyone else to decide who much of anyone's EARNED money they can keep or pass to their children. What, then is the incentive to work?

486 miclaine  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:36:40pm

...... is there a but let's look at the bright side of Brown being elected? Anyone?
/

487 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:37:20pm

re: #436 DaddyG

Sure enough, here they come to tell me I'm crazy and hallucinating, when I point out the FACT that this victory party was full of people waving flags advocating a second American revolution.

Talk about an elephant in the room that nobody wants to look at.

488 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:37:22pm

re: #484 brookly red

/OK gotta meet my militia buddies for a beer now... keep up the oppression for me while I am gone OK?

Have fun!

My littlest one is shooting us all with a bristle block gun so we are teachin' 'em young around here!

489 prairiefire  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:38:10pm

Taxes!! Time to dance!

490 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:38:13pm

re: #450 DaddyG

Does that include corporations who invest in materials and pay employees?

Profit or income?

For the moment I was only talking about people, coporations are another matter all together and should probably be taxed on a different scale.

Also I'd go with taxing Profit, since if you tax income you can leave people in the whole given what they needed to spend to make that income in the first place.

491 miclaine  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:38:41pm

re: #487 Charles

Charles - everybody looks at the elephant, but no one wants to talk about it.

;-)

492 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:38:47pm

re: #480 jamesfirecat

Why does anyone continue to argue with this person. he has gone from suggesting a stricter progressive tax, to taxing everyone at 50 percent, to saying that he would have no problem giving away millions of dollars if he had them.

He is all over the spectrum, spending most of his time contridicting himself. You fucking can't nail jello to the wall, which is what he is trying to get you to do in regards to debating him.

Gaze... let's get on to talking about the death of the GOP (hardy guffgaw).

493 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:38:48pm

Think Progress has video....
Second Revolution Flags Distributed At Brown Victory Party


But I guess nobody is bothered by it. Oh, well.

494 funky chicken  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:39:09pm

re: #86 SixDegrees

Agreed. A lot of hard-core communists, not to mention those inflated scrotum guys, almost certainly voted for Obama. I doubt he's part of the needle-and-saline crowd, though.

Ha! funny.

I'm not sure why the huge attempt to equate Scott Brown with Doug Hoffman....Brown is his own man.

And Glenn Beck hates, hates, hates Scott Brown, so he can't be all that bad!

495 Neutral President  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:39:35pm

re: #479 Walter L. Newton

No dramatics from me. Just pointing out that if you don't pay them, eventually people with guns come to find you and put you into our court system. This fact is the only thing that keeps many people paying them.

If the IRS just called you like Lumberg when you are supposed to work on Saturday but sleep in ("Maybe you forgot to pay them, could you pretty please do that or we will send you a strongly worded memo") tax evasion would be ubiquitous and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves or on something strong.

496 captdiggs  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:39:53pm

re: #428 huggy77

I have been to the NJ tea parties. The main theme was smaller government and lower taxes. There where no white hoods. No armed rebels. There where parents with children.

Personally, I think the left is getting hysterical and "tea party" is the buzzword for all of that.
I expect it to get much worse as we approach the November elections where the democrats are going to take a serious hit.
The country has long been center-right and the pendulum is swinging back that way.

497 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:40:00pm

re: #485 ggt

What makes you think they can afford to lose it? That money could represent payroll for a floundering company they own. Or construction of a skyscraper they've contracted. It's not up to government or anyone else to decide who much of anyone's EARNED money they can keep or pass to their children. What, then is the incentive to work?

The problem is that you can say the same thing about my 50% plan as you can about the current 35% one, how dare the government take away one third of a mans earnings, and so on and so forth!

Its always going to be up to the government to decide who owes how much taxes that's why we have the IRS...

498 KingKenrod  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:40:11pm

Anyone know what tea party group was handing out those flags at the Brown victory rally?

499 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:40:45pm

re: #493 Killgore Trout

Think Progress has video...
Second Revolution Flags Distributed At Brown Victory Party


[Video]
But I guess nobody is bothered by it. Oh, well.

They had no idea./

500 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:40:56pm

re: #487 Charles

It gets even jucier- I just uncovered Brown's ties to a shadowy paramilitary group!Scott

501 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:41:13pm

re: #479 Walter L. Newton

Stop being emo. Of course, if you start threatening the government, if you start stockpiling weapons and dare federal agents from coming on to you property, if you rattle their cage and be purposely an agitator, you're going to get a visit from people who are going to be prepared to protect themselves.

Joan Q citizen who has tax problems, or who just refuse to cooperate with the IRS, at the most go to jail. How many shoot outs have you seen in your neighborhood last year.

Stop the silly dramatics, it show a real lack of intelligence.

I took that from P. J. O'Rourke's "Parliament Of Whores," specifically the chapter "Would You Kill Your Mother To Pave I-95?"

Don't pay your taxes, go to jail. Refuse to go to jail or try to escape, they'll shoot ya.

A bit dramatic, I admit, but all law is backed up by the threat of force. That's why it's called "law," and not "suggestion."

502 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:41:24pm

re: #492 Walter L. Newton

Why does anyone continue to argue with this person. he has gone from suggesting a stricter progressive tax, to taxing everyone at 50 percent, to saying that he would have no problem giving away millions of dollars if he had them.

He is all over the spectrum, spending most of his time contridicting himself. You fucking can't nail jello to the wall, which is what he is trying to get you to do in regards to debating him.

Gaze... let's get on to talking about the death of the GOP (hardy guffgaw).

Where did I ever sugggest 50% taxing everyone?

The point that I'm trying to get to is having a stricter progressive tax that tops out at 50% instead of the current 35% for people who make more than 50 million.

What is the correct way to suggest this idea regardless of if you support it or not?

503 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:41:50pm

re: #500 Fenway_Nation

It gets even jucier- I just uncovered Brown's ties to a shadowy paramilitary group!Scott

1000 updings if I could!

504 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:41:56pm

re: #467 jamesfirecat

So then lets decrease the amount we tax the poor and increase the amount we tax the rich like in my 50% for 50 million idea...

Simplistic thinking does work in this scenerio. The point is that the government doesn't need the money. If it is there they will ALWAYS find a way to justify spending it/or creative accounting to hide it. It's not their's, they haven't earned it.

505 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:41:59pm

re: #502 jamesfirecat

Gaze.

506 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:43:24pm

re: #503 generalsparky

An upding for the sentiment, Gen. Sparky.

/How many stars?

507 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:43:27pm

re: #459 MandyManners

And, buyers are taxed when they purchase those goods.

It all comes out of the a** of working people some way or another. Have you noticed that politicians (both parties) have replaced "citizen" for "consumer."

508 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:44:16pm

re: #504 ggt

Simplistic thinking does work in this scenerio. The point is that the government doesn't need the money. If it is there they will ALWAYS find a way to justify spending it/or creative accounting to hide it. It's not their's, they haven't earned it.

Well I was asked the question of "when are people being taxed too much" and so I answered with my idea of the 50% for above 50 Million. I'm not saying its a perfect plan as I'm no economist, but I was just trying to answer a simple question.

509 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:44:36pm

re: #501 BunnyThief

[snip]

A bit dramatic, I admit, but all law is backed up by the threat of force. That's why it's called "law," and not "suggestion."

And you just noticed this, and this is like something new and different, or does it just serve your purpose as a lame debating point that states the obvious in emotional terms, when there is no issue really at all?

Yawn.

510 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:45:01pm

re: #506 Fenway_Nation

57

511 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:45:34pm

Awww....why the downding, Charles?

I mean clearly from the imagery on the front page they glorify white men brandishing firearms against authority figures, and we all know how dangerous that is.

512 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:45:50pm

re: #507 BruceKelly

It all comes out of the a** of working people some way or another. Have you noticed that politicians (both parties) have replaced "citizen" for "consumer."

Huh?

513 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:46:01pm

re: #487 Charles

Sure enough, here they come to tell me I'm crazy and hallucinating, when I point out the FACT that this victory party was full of people waving flags advocating a second American revolution.

Talk about an elephant in the room that nobody wants to look at.

Ever since the election we have seen the breakdown of the Rightwing..
There have been a rainbow of issues..From Racism to Rushism...
Someday our grandkids will study the loss of power in American politics circa 2008 in College polysci class...

514 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:46:01pm

I'm done for now.

bbl

515 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:46:13pm

re: #510 generalsparky

He he....how many of those did you draw with crayola?

516 palomino  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:46:25pm

re: #487 Charles

Sure enough, here they come to tell me I'm crazy and hallucinating, when I point out the FACT that this victory party was full of people waving flags advocating a second American revolution.

Talk about an elephant in the room that nobody wants to look at.

The GOP hasn't had a lot to celebrate electorally since 2004. You won't be allowed to upset this victory party with facts.

517 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:46:57pm

re: #493 Killgore Trout

Think Progress has video...
Second Revolution Flags Distributed At Brown Victory Party


[Video]

But I guess nobody is bothered by it. Oh, well.

Nope, they're putting their hands over their ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

Happens every single time the subject comes up.

518 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:48:06pm

re: #517 Charles

Nope, they're putting their hands over their ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

Happens every single time the subject comes up.

As Killgore knows best of all.

519 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:48:28pm

re: #487 Charles

Sure enough, here they come to tell me I'm crazy and hallucinating, when I point out the FACT that this victory party was full of people waving flags advocating a second American revolution.

Talk about an elephant in the room that nobody wants to look at.

Charles, i'm sure there is a percentage of tea party supporters/ organizers who in their twisted minds would like nothing more than an actual "revolution", but I also beleive that the vast majority of people that support the ideas advocated use "revolution" as a metaphor.
Nuch like last summer whehn "CHANGE" took hold. I'm positive the vast majority just wanted basic changes, while a small minority really would have liked to see the country totally "change" (i.e. from a free market system ,,,, open borders ,, etc)

520 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:48:33pm

Obama, allies now seek pared-down health care bill

Chastened by the Democratic Senate loss in Massachusetts, President Barack Obama and congressional allies signaled Wednesday they may try to scale back his sweeping health care overhaul in an effort to at least keep parts of it alive.

A simpler, less ambitious bill emerged as an alternative only hours after the loss of the party's crucial 60th Senate seat forced the Democrats to slow their all-out drive to pass Obama's signature legislation despite fierce Republican opposition. The White House is still hoping the House can pass the Senate bill in a quick strike, but Democrats are now considering other options.

No decisions have been made, lawmakers said, but they laid out a new approach that could still include these provisions: limiting the ability of insurance companies to deny coverage to people with medical problems, allowing young adults to stay on their parents' policies, helping small businesses and low-income people pay premiums and changing Medicare to encourage payment for quality care instead of sheer volume of services.

The goal of trying to cover nearly all Americans would be put off further into the future.

521 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:49:17pm

Oh boy they're getting pretty steamed about the Brown victory over at Huff Po. Now they have an article of his daughters wearing bikinis titled: Scott Brown Daughter Bikini PHOTO: Picture Of Ayla & Arianna.

522 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:49:35pm

re: #518 wrenchwench

Lol.

523 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:49:57pm

re: #515 Fenway_Nation

He he...how many of those did you draw with crayola?

Me. None. I made my kids do it as part of their history lesson. We are one of the crazy right wing homeschooling families ya' know ;-)

524 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:50:07pm

re: #513 HoosierHoops

Ever since the election we have seen the breakdown of the Rightwing..
There have been a rainbow of issues..From Racism to Rushism...
Someday our grandkids will study the loss of power in American politics circa 2008 in College polysci class...

Yep, the GOP is just going to hell in a hand basket right now. Funny thing how they are dropping like flies right and left. I don't know, I guess it's not a matter of what the people want, it's a matter of what some people think is right for the people, and if -you don't have the right letter next to your name, or, if you have a differing opinion, then, you must be a crazy right wing nut.

Yep, let's play the all inclusive game and try to brand every conservative (and Independent that dares to consider a conservative politician as viable) as a complete nut.

hell, it's easier than actually debating the issues.

525 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:50:28pm

re: #517 Charles

I hear just fine.......you have your nontreversies and I have mine.

526 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:50:54pm

re: #512 MandyManners

Huh?

uh, not well said... i was just trying to say that polticians are more interested in our wallets than anything else. *looks at feet*

527 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:51:08pm

re: #509 Walter L. Newton

And you just noticed this, and this is like something new and different, or does it just serve your purpose as a lame debating point that states the obvious in emotional terms, when there is no issue really at all?

Yawn.

The line was in response to #417, who called for higher taxes and said he wouldn't mind "giving away" the money were he in that tax bracket.

As someone else noted, he's awful generous with other people's money or hypothetical money...

528 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:51:18pm

re: #403 Killgore Trout

They are very active in the Tea Party movement. google; Oathkeepers Tea Party. There are hours and hours of them speaking at Tea Parties and even publicly stating their oath to overthrow the government in front of very large Tea Party crowds and receiving applause for doing so.

over 70% of registered Independents who voted last night also agreed with the Tea Party. Should we go ahead and shun them too?

529 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:51:21pm

re: #521 Gus 802

Oh boy they're getting pretty steamed about the Brown victory over at Huff Po. Now they have an article of his daughters wearing bikinis titled: Scott Brown Daughter Bikini PHOTO: Picture Of Ayla & Arianna.

Y'know.......that would be my favorite of mine if you only put up a link.

530 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:51:29pm

re: #521 Gus 802

Glenn Beck is worked up over Brown's daughters too.

531 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:51:33pm

re: #493 Killgore Trout

Think Progress has video...
Second Revolution Flags Distributed At Brown Victory Party


[Video]
But I guess nobody is bothered by it. Oh, well.

It does bother me, but there's nothing for it. It was either Brown or Cokely. I chose Brown, knowing that the Tea Party crowd supports him. In my mind he is simply the better choice. I know what their support means and I accept the consequences of same.

532 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:51:55pm

re: #526 BruceKelly

uh, not well said... i was just trying to say that polticians are more interested in our wallets than anything else. *looks at feet*

Oh, I agree.

533 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:52:02pm

re: #529 Fenway_Nation

Y'know...that would be my favorite of mine if you only put up a link.

shun 'em all and let God sort 'em out

534 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:52:09pm

re: #527 BunnyThief

The line was in response to #417, who called for higher taxes and said he wouldn't mind "giving away" the money were he in that tax bracket.

As someone else noted, he's awful generous with other people's money or hypothetical money...

So am I only allowed to propose higher taxes on the bracket that I myself fall into?

535 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:52:28pm

re: #530 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck is worked up over Brown's daughters too.

Yep. Only a matter of time before Andrew Sullivan goes after them as well.

536 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:52:43pm

re: #530 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck is worked up over Brown's daughters too.

Well, say what you like about Brown, at least he's not a prude. The SoCons didn't like that line much at all.

537 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:52:52pm

re: #535 Gus 802

Yep. Only a matter of time before Andrew Sullivan goes after them as well.

Oh, noes!

538 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:53:03pm

re: #529 Fenway_Nation

Y'know...that would be my favorite of mine if you only put up a link.

It's on their front page. Lower right.

539 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:53:23pm

re: #533 albusteve

BREAKING- Republican Senator's Hot Daughters Have Nice Ta-Tas........

/////

540 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:53:32pm

re: #534 jamesfirecat

So am I only allowed to propose higher taxes on the bracket that I myself fall into?

how about you just voluntarily like donate the money and keep yer mitts outta my pocket?

541 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:55:10pm

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

I know what their support means and I accept the consequences of same.

But what about his active courting of their support? You're wording it as though they support him, but he's attended Tea Party events, had a Tea Party fundraiser.

As I've said, I'm not sure I could have voted for Coakely, given that prosecutorial misconduct is one of the biggest political sins in my book. However, that's doesn't translate into nonchalance towards Brown.

As I said, I hope he simply repudiates the second american revolution rhetoric. Then I hope he does his best to legislate pragmatically, though I have scant hope for that given his statements on AGW.

542 jaunte  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:55:12pm

re: #521 Gus 802

Oh boy they're getting pretty steamed about the Brown victory over at Huff Po. Now they have an article of his daughters wearing bikinis titled: Scott Brown Daughter Bikini PHOTO: Picture Of Ayla & Arianna.

Why are they posting that photo?

543 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:55:41pm

re: #540 brookly red

how about you just voluntarily like donate the money and keep yer mitts outta my pocket?

Because we tried having an Objectivist running the economy (Alan Greenspan) and look where it got us.

544 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:55:56pm

re: #542 jaunte

Because they know T&A sells. Pretty damn shameful, if you ask me.

545 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:56:20pm

re: #542 jaunte

Why are they posting that photo?

I don't know. For the obvious creepy reasons. Here's the text:

After announcing that his daughters were "available" during Tuesday night's victory speech, an Animal New York tipster unearthed this Massachusetts' newest senator posing with his shell bikini-clad girls.

Also, check out Ayla's MySpace and Facebook pages. The Boston College senior was a semi-finalist on American Idol. Arianna, according to her Facebook page, is a freshman at Syracuse University.

546 Kruk  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:56:32pm

re: #539 Fenway_Nation

BREAKING- Republican Senator's Hot Daughters Have Nice Ta-Tas...

///

And you are the most powerfull nation on Earth. I weep for the future of humanity...

//

547 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:56:50pm

re: #540 brookly red

how about you just voluntarily like donate the money and keep yer mitts outta my pocket?

Exactly. You, as an American, are free to give away all the money you want. The operative word here is "give."

548 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:57:21pm

re: #524 Walter L. Newton

Yep, the GOP is just going to hell in a hand basket right now. Funny thing how they are dropping like flies right and left. I don't know, I guess it's not a matter of what the people want, it's a matter of what some people think is right for the people, and if -you don't have the right letter next to your name, or, if you have a differing opinion, then, you must be a crazy right wing nut.

Yep, let's play the all inclusive game and try to brand every conservative (and Independent that dares to consider a conservative politician as viable) as a complete nut.

hell, it's easier than actually debating the issues.

Well actually my friend...Brown won the debate...People voted for him..
If the GOP ever wants to come to power again they must win the debate..
That means kicking out all the bigots, racists, nationalist and standing before the American people naked and winning the debate on ideas.
It can be done.. The GOP can be saved and Dems do love America..
It's all about reform

549 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:57:22pm

re: #541 Obdicut

But what about his active courting of their support? You're wording it as though they support him, but he's attended Tea Party events, had a Tea Party fundraiser.

As I've said, I'm not sure I could have voted for Coakely, given that prosecutorial misconduct is one of the biggest political sins in my book. However, that's doesn't translate into nonchalance towards Brown.

As I said, I hope he simply repudiates the second american revolution rhetoric. Then I hope he does his best to legislate pragmatically, though I have scant hope for that given his statements on AGW.

oh ye of little faith...can't be worse than any other goofball senators whipping up their prime time legislative miracles...give the guy a chance

550 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:57:30pm

re: #547 BruceKelly

So you're against all taxes?

551 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:57:34pm

re: #521 Gus 802

Darn it!

You knew I'd go look, and I don't like visiting other blogs!

552 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:58:12pm

re: #530 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck is worked up over Brown's daughters too.

Creepy.

553 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:58:15pm

re: #543 jamesfirecat

Because we tried having an Objectivist running the economy (Alan Greenspan) and look where it got us.

Alan Greenspan turned his back on Ayan Rand over 40 years ago.

554 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:58:43pm

OK...gotta get going now.

555 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:58:53pm

re: #550 Obdicut

So you're against all taxes?

I think a great experiment would be to see if the feds can function on donations alone...say 18mo

556 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:59:33pm

re: #521 Gus 802

Oh boy they're getting pretty steamed about the Brown victory over at Huff Po. Now they have an article of his daughters wearing bikinis titled: Scott Brown Daughter Bikini PHOTO: Picture Of Ayla & Arianna.


And you didn't even include a link to the photo !!!
//

557 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:59:36pm

re: #553 BruceKelly

Alan Greenspan turned his back on Ayan Rand over 40 years ago.

How so?

558 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:00:14pm

re: #553 BruceKelly

Meh. He admitted that a large part of the financial meltdown was lack of self-regulation from the financial industry, and that he was wrong to have assumed it. It wasn't Rand-ism, but it was still very in line with simplistic objectivism.

559 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:00:18pm

re: #554 Fenway_Nation

OK...gotta get going now.

American Idol?
/

560 Marcus Dracon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:00:27pm

Great result, bring on the half terms.

561 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:00:45pm

re: #555 albusteve

I think a great experiment would be to see if the feds can function on donations alone...say 18mo

HEH,,, they wouldn't last 18 SECONDS!


(and yes ,, i'm all for taxes for many things. National security ,,supporting those in need,,,,infrastructure ,, etc ,,0

562 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:00:49pm

re: #557 jamesfirecat

How so?

she had halitosis and Allen is a stickler for a fresh mouth...look it up

563 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:01:13pm

re: #534 jamesfirecat

So am I only allowed to propose higher taxes on the bracket that I myself fall into?

No, not at all.

You're not allowed to refer to imposed taxation as "giving away" with an expectation that you will not be challenged.

And, quite possibly, called names.

Perhaps even derided.

Mockery is not off the table.

564 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:01:17pm

re: #550 Obdicut

So you're against all taxes?

show me the penny... OK now go fly a kite.

565 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:02:13pm

re: #553 BruceKelly

Alan Greenspan turned his back on Ayan Rand over 40 years ago.

deep...

566 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:02:13pm

re: #563 BunnyThief

No, not at all.

You're not allowed to refer to imposed taxation as "giving away" with an expectation that you will not be challenged.

And, quite possibly, called names.

Perhaps even derided.

Mockery is not off the table.

Okay so it's okay as long as I say, I think its fair for the government to actively take every other dollar that someone would earn above 50 milllion dollars?

Who knew being anti-semantic could land a guy in so much trouble!

567 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:02:14pm

re: #556 sattv4u2

And you didn't even include a link to the photo !!!
//

Yeah, didn't want to link. They got the photo from Animal New York which says they got it from a friend/tipster.

568 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:03:20pm

re: #564 brookly red

I just fail to understand how his argument was not an argument against all taxes.

569 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:03:44pm

re: #555 albusteve

I think a great experiment would be to see if the feds can function on donations alone...say 18mo

well we first gotta wait 234 years to break even before we can try it...

570 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:04:07pm

re: #556 sattv4u2

And you didn't even include a link to the photo !!!
//

Here you go.

571 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:05:12pm

re: #534 jamesfirecat

So am I only allowed to propose higher taxes on the bracket that I myself fall into?

Heard a story recently about congresscritters who were unhappy with "we're willing to lose some seats" attitude of the congresscritters who's seats were not in jeopardy.

Kind of like that.

In Shrek, Lord Farquaad says, "Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make."

Kind of like that.

I don't volunteer other people's time or money.

572 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:05:33pm

re: #566 jamesfirecat

Okay so it's okay as long as I say, I think its fair for the government to actively take every other dollar that someone would earn above 50 milllion dollars?

Who knew being anti-semantic could land a guy in so much trouble!

It's fine for you to say that.

I'd be personally embarrassed to say it, myself, as I think that 1) the individual is far better equipped to decide how the money they earn should be spent than the government, and 2) I don't like the idea that "some people just earn too much and should have it taken from them," but you revised statement is considerably more honest than your first one.

573 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:06:04pm

re: #568 Obdicut

I just fail to understand how his argument was not an argument against all taxes.

good grief...try looking at a post from another angle...an argument against all taxes?...I doubt it

574 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:06:30pm

re: #569 brookly red

well we first gotta wait 234 years to break even before we can try it...

buzz killer

575 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:07:37pm

re: #568 Obdicut

I just fail to understand how his argument was not an argument against all taxes.

OK I will admit some taxes are necessary... but the beast is morbidly obese.

576 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:07:41pm

re: #573 albusteve

Here are the two statements:

1.

how about you just voluntarily like donate the money and keep yer mitts outta my pocket?

2.

Exactly. You, as an American, are free to give away all the money you want. The operative word here is "give

."

If we're to keep our mitts out of each other's pockets, and rely on giving away money, how is that not an argument against all taxes?

577 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:10:09pm

re: #576 Obdicut

Here are the two statements:

1.

."

If we're to keep our mitts out of each other's pockets, and rely on giving away money, how is that not an argument against all taxes?

maximum analness...taking a loose observation and mincing it to death...use your scroll wheel

578 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:11:06pm

Jimmah Carter's on the Hystery Channel trying to justify his beahvior after the embassy was seized. I had to change the channel quickly before I threw a perfectly good remote at it.

579 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:11:40pm

re: #576 Obdicut

Here are the two statements:

1.

."

If we're to keep our mitts out of each other's pockets, and rely on giving away money, how is that not an argument against all taxes?

/stifle your self dude. the revolution is here...

580 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:11:51pm

Wow. Didn't expect this from Cindy McCain:

Redefining Republican

January 20th, 2010

In the year since we've started the NOH8 Campaign, we've often been surprised at some of the different individuals who have approached us showing their support. Few, though, have surprised us more than Cindy McCain - the wife of Senator John McCain and mother to vocal marriage equality advocate Meghan McCain. The McCains are one of the most well-known Republican families in recent history, and for Mrs. McCain to have reached out to us to offer her support truly means a lot. Although we had worked with Meghan McCain before and were aware of her own position, we'd never really thought the cause might be something her mother would get behind. We have a huge amount of respect for both of these women for being brave enough to make it known they support equal marriage rights for all Americans.

Aligning yourself with the platform of gay marriage as a Republican still tends to be very stigmatic, but Cindy McCain wanted to participate in the campaign to show people that party doesn't matter - marriage equality isn't a Republican issue any more than it is a Democratic issue. It's about human rights, and everybody being treated equally in the eyes of the law that runs and protects this country.

Meghan McCain was asked to be the keynote speaker at next month's National Equality Week at George Washington University for her advocacy. In an odd bit of timing, a student Republican organization has become upset that she'll be giving that speech -- and have publicly voiced their disapproval over the ordeal.

581 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:12:11pm

repeal ALL taxes!...
disband ALL govt!...
syrvival of the fittest!
total anarchy!

problem solved

582 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:12:18pm

Jeez I love American Idol.. I want to be paid millions to have thousands of young people paraded before me so that I could insult them...It just doesn't get any better..It's like Science theater 3000 on steroids..
Have you ever been out to karaoke when somebody was so bad people were trying to stop you from laughing..under the table?
*Please shut the hell up laughing Hoopster.. The dude is 6'9" ..For Gawds sake..*

583 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:12:24pm

re: #572 BunnyThief

It's fine for you to say that.

I'd be personally embarrassed to say it, myself, as I think that 1) the individual is far better equipped to decide how the money they earn should be spent than the government, and 2) I don't like the idea that "some people just earn too much and should have it taken from them," but you revised statement is considerably more honest than your first one.

Yeah as my go to "anti-semantic" joke for whenever I phrase something poorly suggests I feel a little emberassed about how much that evidently upset you guys and I'm sorry if the lightness of my remarks struck a nerve.

Persoanlly I feel that there are people who know what "to do" with their wealth like for example Warren Buffet [Link: www.rawstory.com...] and of course Bill Gates who started that Philenthropic foundation, but on the other hand, there are people out there who greedily hog all their money, so I figure it's sort of an "innocent people have nothing to fear" kind of thing.

I hate that metaphore in retrospect but I can't think of a better one at the moment.

In short if you're so selfish with your money after making several million a year that you're upset about having some of it taken away then you didn't deserve to have that portion in the first place, and the nice people would have given that money away to charity anyways so the government is just saving them time.

Not the most popular of arguments of course but there it is...

584 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:13:29pm

re: #576 Obdicut

Here are the two statements:

1.

."

If we're to keep our mitts out of each other's pockets, and rely on giving away money, how is that not an argument against all taxes?

Because the context was in RAISING taxes, not EXISTING taxes.

Some taxation is necessary. Saying that people who don't want taxes raised, or would like them reduced, are against all taxation is reductio ad absurdum.

Conversely, would you like it if I said your position is that the government should just confiscate all income above a certain threshold? Or just slap a 99% tax on anything above, say, 100K?

jamesfirecat's underlying principle seems to be "some people make too much money, and it's the government's duty to take it away from them." And you seem to agree with that.

Please correct me if that is mistaken.

585 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:13:33pm

re: #578 MandyManners

Jimmah Carter's on the Hystery Channel trying to justify his beahvior after the embassy was seized. I had to change the channel quickly before I threw a perfectly good remote at it.

you know you fucked up bad when 40 years later you are still changing your story. *spit*

586 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:13:41pm

Oooh boy. There's purple in the radar of the storm heading my way.

Southern California storm wimp here.

587 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:13:55pm

re: #575 brookly red

Okay. So that doesn't actually have to do with taxes, though-- it has to do with spending. I am entirely for cutting spending-- but an argument taxes are too high should connect with the economic effects of those taxes; it's separate.

588 Bagua  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:14:10pm

The Boston Tea Party is a proud tradition in Massachusetts. It represents freedom and the fact that power ultimately rests with the people.

As a state symbol no one would be looking too closely at the guy with the funny flag. The people of Massachusetts are always ready to throw your tea in the harbour in revolt and remind you of their rights if you seek to subjugate them.

589 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:14:38pm

re: #557 jamesfirecat

How so?

Damn, I just checked Wikipedia (for what it's worth) and I may have been wrong. That never happens...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Damn you Alan Greenspan! Fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

590 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:14:44pm

re: #583 jamesfirecat

Yeah as my go to "anti-semantic" joke for whenever I phrase something poorly suggests I feel a little emberassed about how much that evidently upset you guys and I'm sorry if the lightness of my remarks struck a nerve.

Persoanlly I feel that there are people who know what "to do" with their wealth like for example Warren Buffet [Link: www.rawstory.com...] and of course Bill Gates who started that Philenthropic foundation, but on the other hand, there are people out there who greedily hog all their money, so I figure it's sort of an "innocent people have nothing to fear" kind of thing.

I hate that metaphore in retrospect but I can't think of a better one at the moment.

In short if you're so selfish with your money after making several million a year that you're upset about having some of it taken away then you didn't deserve to have that portion in the first place, and the nice people would have given that money away to charity anyways so the government is just saving them time.

Not the most popular of arguments of course but there it is...

so who determines the cut off line?...the Selfish Police?....sounds like a cartoon

591 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:14:45pm

re: #581 albusteve

repeal ALL taxes!...
disband ALL govt!...
syrvival of the fittest!
total anarchy!

problem solved

I'm here to ask you a question: "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?"
"No," says the man in Washington, "It belongs to the poor!"
"No," says the man in the Vatican, "It belongs to God!"
"No," says the man in Moscow, "It belongs to everyone!"
I rejected those answers....

592 keloyd  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:14:54pm

Taxes and analness aside, I want to know what Brown really thinks of the Tea Party crowd. If he drinks their koolaid, we will find out soon enough. If he was cunning to use them for votes, the way many country club Republican candidates have used the Evangelical 'family values' groups, then I can respect that. It's a pol being a pol.

In the long term, I'm wondering if some Republican leaders like Romney and Giuliana may be able to get into the Tea Party movement, then bring it to heel and divert it to some more useful ends. Their movement is more naive and ignorant and disorganized than it is really dangerous or evil, imho.

593 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:15:56pm

re: #584 BunnyThief

My position is that there is no 'right' amount of taxes. It depends what you agree you need to spend on. Spending is the issue.

594 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:16:04pm

re: #585 brookly red

you know you fucked up bad when 40 years later you are still changing your story. *spit*

he's in the tank...if I were a compassionate person I'd consider feeling sorry for the old fuck....nah

595 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:16:27pm

January 20, 2010

Cindy McCain Backs Gay Marriage
Sen. John McCain's wife Cindy McCain "is the newest face of a pro-gay marriage campaign," CBS News reports.

"Posing with tape over her mouth and a "NOH8" logo on her face, Cindy McCain was photographed for the NOH8 Campaign, which protests Proposition 8, the California proposition passed in 2008 banning same-sex marriage. The proposition is currently being challenged in federal court."

596 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:16:34pm

re: #550 Obdicut

So you're against all taxes?

Absolutely not, I just think we already pay enough.

597 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:16:47pm

re: #590 albusteve

so who determines the cut off line?...the Selfish Police?...sounds like a cartoon

The federal government/the IRS the same way they do now.

Like I said I picked the 50% over 50 Million number out of my head because its about halfway between the highest taxes have ever been and their current state.

598 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:16:55pm

re: #585 brookly red

you know you fucked up bad when 40 years later you are still changing your story. *spit*

He was tougher on his sister-in-law's cat than he was on the Iranians.

599 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:17:13pm

re: #587 Obdicut

Okay. So that doesn't actually have to do with taxes, though-- it has to do with spending. I am entirely for cutting spending-- but an argument taxes are too high should connect with the economic effects of those taxes; it's separate.

how is that war on poverty going...
how is that war on drugs going...
are the schools getting better?
how are those green jobs coming along...
Nancy's jet sure is pretty.

600 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:17:26pm

re: #586 Stanley Sea

Oooh boy. There's purple in the radar of the storm heading my way.

Southern California storm wimp here.

Don't feel bad. Texas and Louisiana are getting hit with tornadoes.

601 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:18:05pm

re: #565 brookly red

deep...

But wrong. *looks at feet for the second time tonight*

602 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:18:09pm

re: #597 jamesfirecat

The federal government/the IRS the same way they do now.

Like I said I picked the 50% over 50 Million number out of my head because its about halfway between the highest taxes have ever been and their current state.

I think you picked it from a place on you body that was quite a bit lower.

603 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:18:42pm

re: #602 Walter L. Newton

I think you picked it from a place on you body that was quite a bit lower.

Make him wash it off.

604 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:19:20pm

re: #598 MandyManners

He was tougher on his sister-in-law's cat than he was on the Iranians.

ROFLMAO!

*after wiping Coke from monitor.

605 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:19:25pm

re: #591 jamesfirecat

I'm here to ask you a question: "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?"
"No," says the man in Washington, "It belongs to the poor!"
"No," says the man in the Vatican, "It belongs to God!"
"No," says the man in Moscow, "It belongs to everyone!"
I rejected those answers...

didn't you just want to increase your tax burden? are you confused or just intentionally being a jerky?

606 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:19:45pm

re: #595 Gus 802

January 20, 2010

Cindy McCain Backs Gay Marriage
Sen. John McCain's wife Cindy McCain "is the newest face of a pro-gay marriage campaign," CBS News reports.

And in other news, Booby Jindal today urged the Republican National Committee to form an 'Office of Holy Inquisition' to "bring Mrs. McCain into the light."

/mostly joking.

607 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:19:57pm

re: #595 Gus 802

January 20, 2010

Cindy McCain Backs Gay Marriage
Sen. John McCain's wife Cindy McCain "is the newest face of a pro-gay marriage campaign," CBS News reports.

I'm actually surprised at this, due to the fact that Sen. McCain is running for re-election and has invited Ms. Palin to campaign with him. That tells me he's going for the far right crowd. But Cindy just made it more interesting!

608 jaunte  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:20:00pm

Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003
[Link: www.truthandpolitics.org...]

609 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:20:10pm
610 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:20:10pm

re: #599 brookly red

how is that war on poverty going...
how is that war on drugs going...
are the schools getting better?
how are those green jobs coming along...
Nancy's jet sure is pretty.

How about we solve two problems at once, lets legalize Marijuana and tax its sale! We save money we would have spent trying to outlaw it/running PSAs and we make money from it the same way we do cigarettes, everybody is a winner except for those nasty drug dealers who are using government crackdowns to artificially inflate the price!

611 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:20:17pm

re: #597 jamesfirecat

The federal government/the IRS the same way they do now.

Like I said I picked the 50% over 50 Million number out of my head because its about halfway between the highest taxes have ever been and their current state.

anybody that trusts the federal govt and the IRS with their money need their head examined

612 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:20:26pm

re: #606 Dark_Falcon

And in other news, Booby Jindal today urged the Republican National Committee to form an 'Office of Holy Inquisition' to "bring Mrs. McCain into the light."

/mostly joking.

Gonna have to perform a exorcism...
/

613 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:20:31pm

re: #600 MandyManners

Don't feel bad. Texas and Louisiana are getting hit with tornadoes.

/some one should tell God that Bush is no longer in office....

614 BunnyThief  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:20:42pm

re: #583 jamesfirecat

Yeah as my go to "anti-semantic" joke for whenever I phrase something poorly suggests I feel a little emberassed about how much that evidently upset you guys and I'm sorry if the lightness of my remarks struck a nerve.

Persoanlly I feel that there are people who know what "to do" with their wealth like for example Warren Buffet [Link: www.rawstory.com...] and of course Bill Gates who started that Philenthropic foundation, but on the other hand, there are people out there who greedily hog all their money, so I figure it's sort of an "innocent people have nothing to fear" kind of thing.

I hate that metaphore in retrospect but I can't think of a better one at the moment.

In short if you're so selfish with your money after making several million a year that you're upset about having some of it taken away then you didn't deserve to have that portion in the first place, and the nice people would have given that money away to charity anyways so the government is just saving them time.

Not the most popular of arguments of course but there it is...

boggle

Wanting to keep what you earn is "selfish."

Whether or not you deserve what you earn is dependent on your attitude, and how well you comply with others' moral precepts.

The government that takes your money will spend it just as altruistically and carefully and scrupulously as the charities you choose to support.

James, you shoulda quit while the hole you wuz in was only up to your neck.

Or, alternately, you shoulda followed Mark Twain's advice about staying silent and letting people think you're an idiot, instead of opening your mouth and removing all doubt.

615 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:21:03pm

re: #612 Varek Raith

Gonna have to perform a exorcism...
/

don't forget your spaghetti os

616 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:21:11pm

re: #605 brookly red

didn't you just want to increase your tax burden? are you confused or just intentionally being a jerky?

Its a quote from Bioshock, its what one of the games antagonists says, before he goes and founds an underwater city that eventually falls apart due to lack of regulation...

617 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:21:13pm

re: #606 Dark_Falcon

Upding for giving me one hell of a laugh. And I say that as a faithful Catholic ;-)

618 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:21:55pm

re: #611 albusteve

anybody that trusts the federal govt and the IRS with their money need their head examined

Well who do you want to figure out how much taxes should be? I'm not saying they do a perfect job of it but I don't know of a reasonable alternative...

619 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:22:13pm

re: #610 jamesfirecat

How about we solve two problems at once, lets legalize Marijuana and tax its sale! We save money we would have spent trying to outlaw it/running PSAs and we make money from it the same way we do cigarettes, everybody is a winner except for those nasty drug dealers who are using government crackdowns to artificially inflate the price!

you are a tax junkie I see...as if taxation actually funds the solutions to problems....snort

620 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:23:04pm

re: #614 BunnyThief

boggle

Wanting to keep what you earn is "selfish."

Whether or not you deserve what you earn is dependent on your attitude, and how well you comply with others' moral precepts.

The government that takes your money will spend it just as altruistically and carefully and scrupulously as the charities you choose to support.

James, you shoulda quit while the hole you wuz in was only up to your neck.

Or, alternately, you shoulda followed Mark Twain's advice about staying silent and letting people think you're an idiot, instead of opening your mouth and removing all doubt.

Meh I'd rather have people call me an idiot and then explain to me why I'm an idiot, otherwise we don't learn anything do we?

621 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:23:47pm

headin home

WALTER
check your mail, and 'talk' to you tomorrow

622 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:23:53pm

re: #610 jamesfirecat

How about we solve two problems at once, lets legalize Marijuana and tax its sale! We save money we would have spent trying to outlaw it/running PSAs and we make money from it the same way we do cigarettes, everybody is a winner except for those nasty drug dealers who are using government crackdowns to artificially inflate the price!

And the poor drug users who are so stoned that you make sense to them.

623 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:23:57pm

re: #618 jamesfirecat

Well who do you want to figure out how much taxes should be? I'm not saying they do a perfect job of it but I don't know of a reasonable alternative...

I'll volunteer for the job...Walter can ride shotgun...in 48 hrs we'll have a plan for you

624 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:24:00pm

Taxes serve multiple purposes in our republic:

1) Pay for necessary services. Public Safety (I include the Defense Budget in this), Public Education, mail delivery, etc.

2) Redistribute resources to accomplish societal goals. This is the Entitlement piece.

3) Affect behavior by either penalizing or incentivizing behavior based on its impact on taxation.

I don't have problem with any of these, myself.

625 jaunte  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:24:07pm

re: #610 jamesfirecat

How about we solve two problems at once, lets legalize Marijuana and tax its sale! We save money we would have spent trying to outlaw it/running PSAs and we make money from it the same way we do cigarettes, everybody is a winner except for those nasty drug dealers who are using government crackdowns to artificially inflate the price!

All the revenues will be absorbed by building extra slow-driving lanes.

626 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:24:18pm

re: #619 albusteve

you are a tax junkie I see...as if taxation actually funds the solutions to problems...snort

Sometimes they do sometimes they don't, I think our taxes dollars at work did a great job helping solve the problem of Nazism.

627 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:24:34pm

re: #613 brookly red

/some one should tell God that Bush is no longer in office...

I'd up-ding you but it's kinda' blasphemous.

628 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:25:16pm

re: #611 albusteve

anybody that trusts the federal govt and the IRS with their money need their head examined

And how would you propose that services and such get delivered with no federal government?

629 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:25:50pm

re: #610 jamesfirecat

How about we solve two problems at once, lets legalize Marijuana and tax its sale! We save money we would have spent trying to outlaw it/running PSAs and we make money from it the same way we do cigarettes, everybody is a winner except for those nasty drug dealers who are using government crackdowns to artificially inflate the price!

Keep the Feds outta' my bong.

630 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:26:08pm

re: #628 PT Barnum

And how would you propose that services and such get delivered with no federal government?

there will be no services...services are for the weak

631 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:26:35pm

re: #629 MandyManners

Keep the Feds outta' my bong.

You gotta bong?!?!
/:)

632 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:26:59pm

re: #627 MandyManners

I'd up-ding you but it's kinda' blasphemous.

come over to the dark side... you know you want to.

633 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:27:02pm

re: #624 PT Barnum

Taxes serve multiple purposes in our republic:

1) Pay for necessary services. Public Safety (I include the Defense Budget in this), Public Education, mail delivery, etc.

2) Redistribute resources to accomplish societal goals. This is the Entitlement piece.

3) Affect behavior by either penalizing or incentivizing behavior based on its impact on taxation.

I don't have problem with any of these, myself.

I only fully accept number 1. I reject number 2 categorically, and only accept number 3 for limited purposes needed to maintain the nation's order and strength. Both 2 and 3 can be profoundly dangerous, and thus then must be held in check as far as possible.

634 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:27:32pm

re: #626 jamesfirecat

Sometimes they do sometimes they don't, I think our taxes dollars at work did a great job helping solve the problem of Nazism.

So, those who don't like higher taxes are pro-fascism?

635 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:27:41pm

re: #607 Stanley Sea

I'm actually surprised at this, due to the fact that Sen. McCain is running for re-election and has invited Ms. Palin to campaign with him. That tells me he's going for the far right crowd. But Cindy just made it more interesting!

I see. Looks like Palin will do two appearances for him in March. Is this for the primaries? I know he has that nut-burger Chris Simcox running against him.

636 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:27:43pm

re: #630 albusteve

there will be no services...services are for the weak

Yes, I for one have tried several times to eat these food stamps but they just taste so darn papery!

637 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:27:44pm

re: #629 MandyManners

Keep the Feds outta' my bong.

has your Thermo-Carburator been inspected this month?...may I see the cerificate?

638 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:28:17pm

re: #631 Varek Raith

You gotta bong?!?!
/:)

If I did I'd want the Feds to stay out of it.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

639 keloyd  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:28:29pm

I say we don't rest until everywhere we do 'nation building' has its own electoral college.

640 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:28:30pm

re: #626 jamesfirecat

Sometimes they do sometimes they don't, I think our taxes dollars at work did a great job helping solve the problem of Nazism.

You're getting really close to Godwining yourself...

641 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:28:48pm

re: #632 brookly red

come over to the dark side... you know you want to.

I thought I was already because I'm a Republican.

642 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:29:14pm

re: #638 MandyManners

If I did I'd want the Feds to stay out of it.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

it was a yes or no question...now, let's try again

643 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:29:15pm

re: #633 Dark_Falcon

What would be the consequences if we outlawed 2 and 3 completely, in your mind?

644 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:29:25pm

re: #637 albusteve

has your Thermo-Carburator been inspected this month?...may I see the cerificate?

I lost it somewhere in the Cheetos bag.

645 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:29:32pm

re: #634 MandyManners

So, those who don't like higher taxes are pro-fascism?

and they hate women, children, gays & minorities too...

oh and small furry animals.

646 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:29:49pm

re: #641 MandyManners

I thought I was already because I'm a Republican.

If you can't shoot lightning from your fingertips, you haven't crossed over to the Dark Side...
/

647 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:29:56pm

re: #634 MandyManners

So, those who don't like higher taxes are pro-fascism?

No, I'm saying that our tax dollars help fulled the US war effort that defeated Hitler.

It's foolish to say that taxes can't solve problems because sometimes they can, like using taxes to help fund the army, navy, air force, and the like to help keep us from being invaded.

Likewise our tax dollars do a good job helping deal with fires, which is why we have government fire fighters instead of a bunch of small fire fighting companies.

The issue is to figure out which problems taxes can solve and which they can't, not assume as a blanket statement that the government needs to keep there hands out of X or that having us throw money at any given problem will make it go away.

648 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:30:11pm

Saw a graphic else-web, on the coverage of Coakley's and Brown's election night speeches. Only Fox broadcast both of them in their entireties.

649 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:30:20pm

Brown: Mass. victory sends 'very powerful message'

Republican Scott Brown, fresh from a stunning Massachusetts Senate victory that shook the power balance on Capitol Hill, declared Wednesday that his election had sent a "very powerful message" that voters are weary of backroom deals and Washington business-as-usual.

Democrats scrambled to explain the loss, which imperils President Barack Obama's agenda for health care and other hard-fought domestic issues. Republicans greeted their victory with clear glee.

"The president ought to take this as a message to recalibrate how he wants to govern, and if he wants to govern from the middle we'll meet him there," said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

Obama said the Massachusetts vote reflected the mood around the country. "People are angry, and they're frustrated," he said in an interview with ABC News.

650 Barflytom  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:30:27pm

re: #202 Fortitudine

You know, I've spent a fair amount of time in the Middle East, which has not one single "democracy" (as Americans would recognize it. And that includes Israel). Nearly every man and boy over the age of 16 packs heat. And yet...they don't seem to be able to keep themselves safe from tyranny.

I've also lived in the UK and other countries with draconian gun control laws. And yet...the residents of these countries seem to enjoy a high level of civil rights and personal freedoms.

How can this be?

//

I'm curious to know why you don't think Israel is a democracy.

As for the UK gun laws, the ban on handguns for instance only came in with the Blair government - Britain had fairly relaxed gun laws (but still not very high rates of gun ownership) until quite recently. Crime has gone up substantially since then, especially gun crimes.
I would also argue that Britain is a much less free country since nuLabour came along. The strict gun laws are a sympton rather than a cause of that, but a desire to restrict gun ownership seems to go along with a desire to regulate everything else.

As for the Arab middle east - whether they're armed to the teeth or not isn't the point - they're susceptible to dictators because they just have no history or experience of anything else, and frankly, the likely outcome of democracy there isn't anything to wish for. Hamas for example.

651 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:30:32pm

What's next? A claim that those who don't want higher taxes hate soldiers, sailors and Marines?

652 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:30:49pm

re: #445 Fenway_Nation

And lazy-ass broad-brushing of opponents of Obama's policies as tea-baggers and dangerous militants isn't shabby?

Oh, OK. Now I don't feel offended at all.

/

653 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:31:16pm

re: #645 brookly red

and they hate women, children, gays & minorities too...

oh and small furry animals.

That's why I keep my hamster caged. I'm oppressing him.

654 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:31:20pm

re: #643 PT Barnum

What would be the consequences if we outlawed 2 and 3 completely, in your mind?

Ask that again some other time. It's primetime and I don't have the time for a post that long right now.

655 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:31:40pm

re: #646 Varek Raith

If you can't shoot lightning from your fingertips, you haven't crossed over to the Dark Side...
/

Rove hasn't granted me that power yet.

656 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:31:53pm

re: #640 Varek Raith

You're getting really close to Godwining yourself...

Sorry next time I'll stick to the fire fighters example...

657 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:32:03pm

re: #647 jamesfirecat

No, I'm saying that our tax dollars help fulled the US war effort that defeated Hitler.

It's foolish to say that taxes can't solve problems because sometimes they can, like using taxes to help fund the army, navy, air force, and the like to help keep us from being invaded.

Likewise our tax dollars do a good job helping deal with fires, which is why we have government fire fighters instead of a bunch of small fire fighting companies.

The issue is to figure out which problems taxes can solve and which they can't, not assume as a blanket statement that the government needs to keep there hands out of X or that having us throw money at any given problem will make it go away.

I cannot believe how naive you are...sorry, really...I've been poking fun at your ridiculous questions, that's all...you seem like a decent person, but c'mon dude

658 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:32:27pm

re: #647 jamesfirecat

How old are you?

659 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:32:41pm

re: #649 Racer X

Brown: Mass. victory sends 'very powerful message'

Republican Scott Brown, fresh from a stunning Massachusetts Senate victory that shook the power balance on Capitol Hill, declared Wednesday that his election had sent a "very powerful message" that voters are weary of backroom deals and Washington business-as-usual.

Democrats scrambled to explain the loss, which imperils President Barack Obama's agenda for health care and other hard-fought domestic issues. Republicans greeted their victory with clear glee.

"The president ought to take this as a message to recalibrate how he wants to govern, and if he wants to govern from the middle we'll meet him there," said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

Obama said the Massachusetts vote reflected the mood around the country. "People are angry, and they're frustrated," he said in an interview with ABC News.

a. he said they were angry about the last eight years
b. he moved to nationalize the student loan biz today

it's on.

660 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:32:49pm

re: #658 MandyManners

How old are you?

21.

661 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:32:58pm

re: #656 jamesfirecat

Sorry next time I'll stick to the fire fighters example...

Yeah, well, I may have over reacted a bit...

662 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:33:20pm

re: #657 albusteve

I cannot believe how naive you are...sorry, really...I've been poking fun at your ridiculous questions, that's all...you seem like a decent person, but c'mon dude

Expalin to me why I'm wrong then...

663 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:33:31pm

re: #651 MandyManners

What's next? A claim that those who don't want higher taxes hate soldiers, sailors and Marines?

when I say I hate the feds, I've had all kinds of groovy lectures about fireman, bridges and national parks....pretty funny

664 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:33:31pm

re: #627 MandyManners

I'd up-ding you but it's kinda' blasphemous.

What've you got against Chicago Jesus?

665 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:33:39pm

aiming for 666...

666 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:33:47pm

666

667 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:33:48pm

re: #654 Dark_Falcon

Let me try another approach by asking shorter questions and opening it up to anyone:

If we completely removed entitlements and behavioral incentives from the reasons we collect and spend taxes, how would we prevent the development of an oligarchy?

668 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:33:51pm

re: #462 ArchangelMichael

Try not paying them.

Well, we tried running a nation of 300 million people off the free-will love offerings left in the baskets, but it wasn't working.

/

669 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:34:27pm

re: #666 Gus 802

666

Congrats! You've won an all expense paid trip to New Jersey!1!!
///

670 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:34:33pm

re: #660 jamesfirecat

21.

Well, at that age I was a member of the CPUSA.

671 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:34:39pm

re: #665 brookly red

aiming for 666...

that my story... high and to the right.

672 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:34:52pm

re: #667 PT Barnum

Let me try another approach by asking shorter questions and opening it up to anyone:

If we completely removed entitlements and behavioral incentives from the reasons we collect and spend taxes, how would we prevent the development of an oligarchy?

By making sure we have Glenn Beck on the air to warn us about it!

673 Barflytom  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:34:57pm

re: #203 Charles

President Obama absolutely renounced Rev. Wright in strong, clear terms. I guess that wasn't enough for you.

I'd have been more impressed if he'd renounced Wright a decade or two earlier, rather than halfway through his presidential campaign.

You should to be playing defense for an NFL team this weekend if you're prepared to make a goal line stand for Obama on that one !

674 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:35:01pm

re: #669 Varek Raith

Congrats! You've won an all expense paid trip to New Jersey!1!!
///

forever!

675 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:35:12pm

re: #664 The Sanity Inspector

What've you got against Chicago Jesus?

Ain't gonna' click.

676 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:35:25pm

re: #669 Varek Raith

Congrats! You've won an all expense paid trip to New Jersey!1!!
///

Trenton here I come!

Now I'm in trouble. Gotta watch out for black cats tonight.

//

677 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:36:00pm

re: #676 Gus 802

Trenton here I come!

Now I'm in trouble. Gotta watch out for black cats tonight.

//

I used to live in New Jersey, have fun!
Muhahaha.

678 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:36:09pm

re: #672 jamesfirecat

Except Glenn didn't warn us against oligarchy..he warned us against oligarhy which is code for scary non-caucasians.

679 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:36:14pm

re: #662 jamesfirecat

Expalin to me why I'm wrong then...

you are not necessarily wrong....I'm just spoofing you and your crazy ideas, you seem to fall for every nutty thing I say

680 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:36:21pm

re: #677 Varek Raith

I used to live in New Jersey, have fun!
Muhahaha.

Really? What exit?

/

681 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:36:29pm

re: #666 Gus 802

666

Was there any doubt it would be Gus?

682 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:37:21pm

re: #626 jamesfirecat

I think our taxes dollars at work did a great job helping solve the problem of Nazism.


Why does that get downdings?

683 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:37:51pm

re: #670 MandyManners

Well, at that age I was a member of the CPUSA.

Yeah as Winston Churchill said, “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

Hopefully in the next 19 years I'll get a good job (possibly a deffence one so I can government healthcare as a sure thing) with my computer programming degree, rake in the cash, and discover a hatred for the progress income tax as well, it's the American dream, to have enough money that you spend all your time complaining about how other people are taking it!

684 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:38:01pm

re: #682 Killgore Trout

Why does that get downdings?

back peddling...

685 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:38:16pm

re: #659 brookly red

a. he said they were angry about the last eight years
b. he moved to nationalize the student loan biz today

it's on.

Oh, yeah. Obama's clue meter is reading zero. The voters yelled at him and his reaction was to Blame Bush. Sorry, Barry but you've gone to the well too often with that canard.

686 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:39:00pm

re: #675 MandyManners

Ain't gonna' click.

S'okay, you've seen it before.

687 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:39:06pm

re: #679 albusteve

you are not necessarily wrong...I'm just spoofing you and your crazy ideas, you seem to fall for every nutty thing I say

Well I've got really bad "intent detection" even in real life, and its worse on the internet when I can't hear the inflection with which someone speaks or see their facial expressions...

688 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:39:19pm

re: #685 Dark_Falcon

Oh, yeah. Obama's clue meter is reading zero. The voters yelled at him and his reaction was to Blame Bush. Sorry, Barry but you've gone to the well too often with that canard.

one trick dog...

689 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:39:50pm

re: #679 albusteve

you are not necessarily wrong...I'm just spoofing you and your crazy ideas, you seem to fall for every nutty thing I say

He falls for every nutty thing he says... 21... that explains a lot. Scary what our current educational system has wrought. This simplistic would view, the narrow focus on the personal versus the reality of the whole, no critical thinking skills what so ever.

I think I will have to shoot myself before I let anyone like Jamesfirecat make any decisions that effect my existence.

690 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:39:51pm

re: #670 MandyManners

Well, at that age I was a member of the CPUSA.

When I was 21, I . . . well, I'm not allowed to talk about it.

691 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:40:20pm

re: #685 Dark_Falcon

Oh, yeah. Obama's clue meter is reading zero. The voters yelled at him and his reaction was to Blame Bush. Sorry, Barry but you've gone to the well too often with that canard.

Hopefully the GOP will get their shit together for the 2012 election...

692 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:40:42pm

re: #486 miclaine

... is there a but let's look at the bright side of Brown being elected? Anyone?
/

He seems sincere and bright. Despite my concerns around the flags, he was elected without pandering to the nutty side of the street, and appears to have a fair amount of popular support from voters of all parties. May serve to lower the sense of victimization among conservatives, and serve as a wake-up call to Democrats.

I don't know enough about him to speculate beyond that.

693 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:40:45pm

re: #684 brookly red

back peddling...

Huh? How was that back peddling to say that taxes can help solve problems and then suggest that government spending helped finance the US army during WW2 which in turn helped beat the Nazis?

694 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:41:11pm

re: #689 Walter L. Newton

He falls for every nutty thing he says... 21... that explains a lot. Scary what our current educational system has wrought. This simplistic would view, the narrow focus on the personal versus the reality of the whole, no critical thinking skills what so ever.

I think I will have to shoot myself before I let anyone like Jamesfirecat make any decisions that effect my existence.

better lock & load... it's happening.

695 Cheechako  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:41:13pm

Reading this thread has become very taxing.

696 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:41:29pm

re: #685 Dark_Falcon

Oh, yeah. Obama's clue meter is reading zero. The voters yelled at him and his reaction was to Blame Bush. Sorry, Barry but you've gone to the well too often with that canard.

I hate to admit it, but I'm thinking Obama needs to grow a pair and stop trying to be a reasonable adult and start kicking some ass. If your opponent is interested in having a pissing match, you don't bring perfume.

On the other hand, you can't outpiss a skunk, and I'm not sure the GOP has any limit to how low they're willing to go to bring this president, or any non-GOP president down.

697 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:41:33pm

re: #683 jamesfirecat

Yeah as Winston Churchill said, “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

Hopefully in the next 19 years I'll get a good job (possibly a deffence one so I can government healthcare as a sure thing) with my computer programming degree, rake in the cash, and discover a hatred for the progress income tax as well, it's the American dream, to have enough money that you spend all your time complaining about how other people are taking it!

Another great Brit said:

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

Margaret Thatcher

698 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:41:44pm

re: #687 jamesfirecat

Well I've got really bad "intent detection" even in real life, and its worse on the internet when I can't hear the inflection with which someone speaks or see their facial expressions...

lurking is good for that problem

699 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:41:48pm

re: #494 funky chicken

Ha! funny.

I'm not sure why the huge attempt to equate Scott Brown with Doug Hoffman...Brown is his own man.

And Glenn Beck hates, hates, hates Scott Brown, so he can't be all that bad!

I do find Beck's hostility heartening.

700 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:42:02pm

re: #683 jamesfirecat

Yeah as Winston Churchill said, “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

I prefer W. H. Auden's version:

“Heartless cynics!” the young men shout
Blind to the world of Fact without
“Silly Dreamers,” the old men grin
Deaf to the world of Purpose within

701 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:42:29pm

re: #683 jamesfirecat

Yeah as Winston Churchill said, “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

Hopefully in the next 19 years I'll get a good job (possibly a deffence one so I can government healthcare as a sure thing) with my computer programming degree, rake in the cash, and discover a hatred for the progress income tax as well, it's the American dream, to have enough money that you spend all your time complaining about how other people are taking it!

Are you from Great Britain?

702 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:42:32pm

21.

You have only just begun to drink.

703 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:42:44pm

re: #693 jamesfirecat

Huh? How was that back peddling to say that taxes can help solve problems and then suggest that government spending helped finance the US army during WW2 which in turn helped beat the Nazis?

covering your butt after all the other stuff...

quick, no Google... name the axis powers.

704 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:42:45pm

re: #698 albusteve

lurking is good for that problem

Yeah but I feel I learn more when I talk with people, besides LFG is sort of the Boxing of political blogs, there are some hard blows thrown and there are fights, but its done in a gentalmenly manner...

705 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:42:49pm

re: #692 SanFranciscoZionist

He seems sincere and bright. Despite my concerns around the flags, he was elected without pandering to the nutty side of the street, and appears to have a fair amount of popular support from voters of all parties. May serve to lower the sense of victimization among conservatives, and serve as a wake-up call to Democrats.

I don't know enough about him to speculate beyond that.

Again, I'm with you on this.

As for Republicans - I think many see what you've said above, and we are hoping that instead of him getting sucked into the tea party craziness, he can serve to suck some of the life OUT of the tea party craziness.

706 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:42:52pm

re: #670 MandyManners

Well, at that age I was a member of the CPUSA.

And I was a pot smoking, Ayn Rand loving Republican. Don't think we ran in the same crowd ;-)

707 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:43:06pm

re: #689 Walter L. Newton

He falls for every nutty thing he says... 21... that explains a lot. Scary what our current educational system has wrought. This simplistic would view, the narrow focus on the personal versus the reality of the whole, no critical thinking skills what so ever.

I think I will have to shoot myself before I let anyone like Jamesfirecat make any decisions that effect my existence.

our future...chew on that

708 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:43:26pm

re: #701 MandyManners

Are you from Great Britain?

No US.

709 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:43:38pm

re: #690 Racer X

When I was 21, I . . . well, I'm not allowed to talk about it.

Go ahead and we'll kill you after.

710 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:44:09pm

re: #693 jamesfirecat

Huh? How was that back peddling to say that taxes can help solve problems and then suggest that government spending helped finance the US army during WW2 which in turn helped beat the Nazis?

thanks for that General Obvious

711 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:44:09pm

re: #690 Racer X

When I was 21, I . . . well, I'm not allowed to talk about it.

I became a grownup about five years before my parents thought I did, and about five years after I thought I did.

712 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:44:23pm

re: #707 albusteve

our future...chew on that

"Because I believe children are the future,*shakes fist,angry* unless we stop them!"
-Homer Simpson

713 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:44:25pm

re: #703 brookly red

covering your butt after all the other stuff...

quick, no Google... name the axis powers.

Germany, Italy, Japan give or take a couple of countries like Romania and Finland that had deals with Germany to keep them from being invaded.

714 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:44:42pm

re: #689 Walter L. Newton

What's next Walter? GET OFF MY LAWN! ?

715 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:44:43pm

re: #519 sattv4u2

Charles, i'm sure there is a percentage of tea party supporters/ organizers who in their twisted minds would like nothing more than an actual "revolution", but I also beleive that the vast majority of people that support the ideas advocated use "revolution" as a metaphor.
Nuch like last summer whehn "CHANGE" took hold. I'm positive the vast majority just wanted basic changes, while a small minority really would have liked to see the country totally "change" (i.e. from a free market system ,,, open borders ,, etc)

You know, that's all probably true.

Didn't stop folks here from hyperventilating back then!

716 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:45:03pm

re: #694 brookly red

better lock & load... it's happening.

Really, I'm serious. And no, this is not a generational thing, where I'm getting older and "this happens to every generation, it's nothing new, my grandfather and father went through the same thing."

Nope, I've paid close attention to this, and I'm an excellent armchair student of history. This is new, this is now common to every era. We have a crop of young people coming up (not all, but many) who are totally lacking in the critical thinking skills, logical thinking skills and the common sense that most generations have engendered in the past.

There has been a paradigm shift here, and it's not for the good.

717 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:45:03pm

re: #713 jamesfirecat

Germany, Italy, Japan give or take a couple of countries like Romania and Finland that had deals with Germany to keep them from being invaded.

well done.

718 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:45:14pm

re: #673 Barflytom

I'd have been more impressed if he'd renounced Wright a decade or two earlier, rather than halfway through his presidential campaign.

You should to be playing defense for an NFL team this weekend if you're prepared to make a goal line stand for Obama on that one !

President Obama made a VERY strong statement denouncing Rev. Wright. As far as I was concerned, he ended the issue with that statement.

Of course, if you're a hyper-partisan Obama-hater, I can see why you wouldn't want to let go of it, ever.

719 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:45:16pm

re: #706 generalsparky

And I was a pot smoking, Ayn Rand loving Republican. Don't think we ran in the same crowd ;-)

We might've shared a joint or two.

720 cronus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:45:27pm

Another guy who must not have got the "Scott Brown is an extremist Tea Party insurgent" memo:

Scott Brown is More Liberal Than Olympia Snowe, and Now He’s Pivotal, Too

721 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:45:34pm

re: #708 jamesfirecat

No US.

Just wondering.

722 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:45:41pm

re: #625 jaunte

All the revenues will be absorbed by building extra slow-driving lanes.

That's damned funny. Don't forget the "second chance" exits off the interstate.

723 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:45:46pm

re: #689 Walter L. Newton

He falls for every nutty thing he says... 21... that explains a lot. Scary what our current educational system has wrought. This simplistic would view, the narrow focus on the personal versus the reality of the whole, no critical thinking skills what so ever.

I think I will have to shoot myself before I let anyone like Jamesfirecat make any decisions that effect my existence.

Okay then so start educating me on why I'm wrong rather than just clucking your tounges about my ignorance...

724 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:46:09pm

re: #704 jamesfirecat

Yeah but I feel I learn more when I talk with people, besides LFG is sort of the Boxing of political blogs, there are some hard blows thrown and there are fights, but its done in a gentalmenly manner...

I think I've seen you write "LFG" a couple of times.
Of course, your typing in general seems to be pretty awful.
But you may want to try to type "LGF" (for Little Green Footballs).

Sorry, I'm not trying to give you any grief, but that's just - one of those things that drive me crazy.

725 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:46:26pm

re: #521 Gus 802

Oh boy they're getting pretty steamed about the Brown victory over at Huff Po. Now they have an article of his daughters wearing bikinis titled: Scott Brown Daughter Bikini PHOTO: Picture Of Ayla & Arianna.

Wearing bikinis is OK. I mean, not if you're me. But I'm sure his daughters are young and svelte enough to pull the look off.

726 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:46:41pm

re: #716 Walter L. Newton

Really, I'm serious. And no, this is not a generational thing, where I'm getting older and "this happens to every generation, it's nothing new, my grandfather and father went through the same thing."

Nope, I've paid close attention to this, and I'm an excellent armchair student of history. This is new, this is now common to every era. We have a crop of young people coming up (not all, but many) who are totally lacking in the critical thinking skills, logical thinking skills and the common sense that most generations have engendered in the past.

There has been a paradigm shift here, and it's not for the good.

thank you NEA...sure appreciate you gift to America!

727 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:47:02pm

re: #723 jamesfirecat

Don't mind Walter..he hasn't had his prune juice tonight and it makes him cranky!

728 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:47:07pm

re: #530 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck is worked up over Brown's daughters too.

I don't dare ask.

729 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:47:16pm

re: #696 PT Barnum

I hate to admit it, but I'm thinking Obama needs to grow a pair and stop trying to be a reasonable adult and start kicking some ass. If your opponent is interested in having a pissing match, you don't bring perfume.

On the other hand, you can't outpiss a skunk, and I'm not sure the GOP has any limit to how low they're willing to go to bring this president, or any non-GOP president down.

Actually, he needs to be honest... transparent, you know, all those things he promised. Remember, there are 3 times as many leftists in MA. and they couldn't even beat Brown. And what do you think the Independents have been seeing in Washington... abject failure and dishonesty... and they spoke up loud and clear.

730 ryannon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:47:19pm

re: #704 jamesfirecat

Yeah but I feel I learn more when I talk with people, besides LFG is sort of the Boxing of political blogs, there are some hard blows thrown and there are fights, but its done in a gentalmenly manner...

Your right and I think you need to meet our friend Cato the Elder. He's one of the most gentelmanly Lizards you ever can know. You'll learn alot from him.

731 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:47:58pm

re: #718 Charles

President Obama made a VERY strong statement denouncing Rev. Wright. As far as I was concerned, he ended the issue with that statement.

Of course, if you're a hyper-partisan Obama-hater, I can see why you wouldn't want to let go of it, ever.

I guess as long as Brown apologizes for the tea-party folks in the next 20 years we should be good to go!!
//

732 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:48:07pm

re: #719 MandyManners

We might've shared a joint or two.

You may very well be right since my husband (boyfriend back then) was about as liberal as you could get. Of course, I brought him over to the right side when we got married ;-)

733 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:48:07pm

re: #727 PT Barnum

Don't mind Walter..he hasn't had his prune juice tonight and it makes him cranky!

*shaking cane*

734 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:48:19pm

re: #723 jamesfirecat

I'm not talking to you. Got that? Didn't you believe me up thread?

735 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:48:33pm

re: #717 brookly red

well done.

You should have known better than to quiz me on a question that could be answered be watching the fun parts of History Channel or playing Video Games.

Ask me about the teapot dome scandal for example and all I remember is that it happened under Calvin Coolidge (whose last name I need the internet to help me spell) and had something or other do with real estate.

736 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:48:48pm

re: #730 ryannon

Your right and I think you need to meet our friend Cato the Elder. He's one of the most gentelmanly Lizards you ever can know. You'll learn alot from him.

LOL.

737 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:49:03pm

re: #732 generalsparky

You may very well be right since my husband (boyfriend back then) was about as liberal as you could get. Of course, I brought him over to the right side when we got married ;-)

I switched to the GOP in my mid-20s.

738 jaunte  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:49:04pm

re: #733 MandyManners

These modern youth!

Image: modernanything1927.jpg

739 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:49:17pm

re: #713 jamesfirecat

Germany, Italy, Japan give or take a couple of countries like Romania and Finland that had deals with Germany to keep them from being invaded.

You just keep posting, jamesfirecat. Listen to the ones who take issue with your assertions, and nevermind those who twit you for your youth. At your age, convictions are a hilltop on which you plant your flag. At our age, convictions are a cave in which we hide.

740 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:49:21pm

re: #729 Walter L. Newton

I disagree with you, but you knew that.

I frankly think Obama needs to quit trying to be an adult start being a schoolyard bully. He's been getting sand kicked in his face, and he needs to start throwing punches instead of saying "can't we all just get along"

741 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:49:34pm

re: #699 SanFranciscoZionist

I do find Beck's hostility heartening.

Pulls out chalkboard...

Sekrit
Communist
Oligarhy!
Transnational
Tyranny

Bolsheviks
Red China
Oedipus
Wiccans
New-World-Order

742 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:49:35pm

re: #730 ryannon

Your right and I think you need to meet our friend Cato the Elder. He's one of the most gentelmanly Lizards you ever can know. You'll learn alot from him.

Cato?

Gentlemanly?

743 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:49:55pm

re: #724 reine.de.tout

I think I've seen you write "LFG" a couple of times.
Of course, your typing in general seems to be pretty awful.
But you may want to try to type "LGF" (for Little Green Footballs).

Sorry, I'm not trying to give you any grief, but that's just - one of those things that drive me crazy.

Whoops my bad. My typing is horrible I'll admit many because I type really fast. I try to obey the little red warning lines as best I can but they don't help with grammar and mistakes like the one you pointed out.

744 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:50:13pm

re: #735 jamesfirecat

You should have known better than to quiz me on a question that could be answered be watching the fun parts of History Channel or playing Video Games.

Ask me about the teapot dome scandal for example and all I remember is that it happened under Calvin Coolidge (whose last name I need the internet to help me spell) and had something or other do with real estate.

I still don't trust anyone who says their 21 & knows what tax bracket they are in :)

745 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:50:25pm

re: #739 The Sanity Inspector

one of the best lines I've heard in a while.

746 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:50:31pm

re: #743 jamesfirecat

Whoops my bad. My typing is horrible I'll admit many because I type really fast. I try to obey the little red warning lines as best I can but they don't help with grammar and mistakes like the one you pointed out.

Preview is your friend. :)

747 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:50:59pm

re: #738 jaunte

These modern youth!

[Link: i452.photobucket.com...]

ROFL!
But I think they got the "modern inventions" age wrong.
I think it's closer to 60 than 90.

748 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:51:01pm

re: #740 PT Barnum

I disagree with you, but you knew that.

I frankly think Obama needs to quit trying to be an adult start being a schoolyard bully. He's been getting sand kicked in his face, and he needs to start throwing punches instead of saying "can't we all just get along"

His own party can't get along with themselves. Well, at least you have made a little progress, you're placing the blame on the right person, Obama.

749 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:51:20pm

re: #742 Racer X

He is gentelemanly as long as you're not talking about Caribou Barbie

750 jaunte  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:51:52pm

re: #747 reine.de.tout

Did you see the date on that? 1927.

751 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:51:53pm

re: #744 brookly red

I still don't trust anyone who says their 21 & knows what tax bracket they are in :)

When I was that age I did not know the Zip code. Or where my pants were.

752 palomino  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:52:28pm

re: #580 Gus 802

just one more reason why the right still hates McCain.

753 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:52:46pm

re: #751 Racer X

When I was that age I did not know the Zip code. Or where my pants were.

when you were 21 the did have zip codes so it's OK

754 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:52:50pm

re: #743 jamesfirecat

Whoops my bad. My typing is horrible I'll admit many because I type really fast. I try to obey the little red warning lines as best I can but they don't help with grammar and mistakes like the one you pointed out.

I quite understand.
But it's respectful toward our host, I think, to get the LGF right, even if nothing else is.
'Course I'm a little old lady and think small things can count. Maybe I'm wrong.

755 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:53:35pm

re: #740 PT Barnum

I disagree with you, but you knew that.

I frankly think Obama needs to quit trying to be an adult start being a schoolyard bully. He's been getting sand kicked in his face, and he needs to start throwing punches instead of saying "can't we all just get along"

BO is way out of his league...everybody and their brother in law is suggesting what he should do...what's that say about him?...he's a rube and will be lucky to survive his four year gig...and if he does, it won't be because of his political prowess, he'll get lucky and some one will carry his water for him...he's already a proven bust

756 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:53:43pm

re: #746 Varek Raith

Preview is your friend. :)

Not if my mind is somewhere else and thinks the acronym of this web sties name is LFG instead of LGF.

757 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:53:50pm

re: #724 reine.de.tout

I think I've seen you write "LFG" a couple of times.
Of course, your typing in general seems to be pretty awful.
But you may want to try to type "LGF" (for Little Green Footballs).

Sorry, I'm not trying to give you any grief, but that's just - one of those things that drive me crazy.

Oh noes! It's da Great LFG Seekrit Conspiracy!

BTW whatever happened to the Morlocks? Big Lizard eated them?

758 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:53:53pm

re: #750 jaunte

Did you see the date on that? 1927.

Didn't specifically notice the date, but I thought the art looked sort of Depression era-ish.

I still think they're wrong on modern inventions. It's closer to 60.

759 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:53:53pm

re: #592 keloyd

Taxes and analness aside, I want to know what Brown really thinks of the Tea Party crowd. If he drinks their koolaid, we will find out soon enough. If he was cunning to use them for votes, the way many country club Republican candidates have used the Evangelical 'family values' groups, then I can respect that. It's a pol being a pol.

In the long term, I'm wondering if some Republican leaders like Romney and Giuliana may be able to get into the Tea Party movement, then bring it to heel and divert it to some more useful ends. Their movement is more naive and ignorant and disorganized than it is really dangerous or evil, imho.

That would be ideal. If the sane people attracted to the movement were represented by some sane conservatives, they would probably be happy. And the crazy people would have to play by themselves.

760 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:54:15pm

re: #741 Gus 802

Pulls out chalkboard...

Sekrit
Communist
Oligarhy!
Transnational
Tyranny

Bolsheviks
Red China
Oedipus
Wiccans
New-World-Order

LMAO, I love it. But you do realize what that means. right? Scott Brown's daughters want to KILL THE SMURFS!

/tips hat to South Park

761 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:54:16pm

re: #755 albusteve

At least he didn't lose a couple of towers in his first year.

762 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:54:16pm

re: #754 reine.de.tout

I quite understand.
But it's respectful toward our host, I think, to get the LGF right, even if nothing else is.
'Course I'm a little old lady and think small things can count. Maybe I'm wrong.

Do you shake sticks at bread, perchance?
/

763 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:54:28pm

Greatest moment of all time on American Idol!
Dude sang Amazing grace really bad and wouldn't go away..Finally they handcuffed him and drug him away.. You can't buy more fun..

764 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:55:01pm

re: #751 Racer X

When I was that age I did not know the Zip code. Or where my pants were.

I know the zipcode of my home because I've had to fill it out on a bunch of forms and for a while it was part of my AIM password.

As me what the zipcode of my college is on the other hand...

765 Kevitivity  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:55:04pm

The tea party movement played an important part in getting Brown elected. Sure, there are a few crazies associated with it, but we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

766 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:55:04pm

re: #606 Dark_Falcon

And in other news, Booby Jindal today urged the Republican National Committee to form an 'Office of Holy Inquisition' to "bring Mrs. McCain into the light."

/mostly joking.

Cindy can kick his ass. Holy water and all.

767 stayfrosty  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:55:07pm

It's all a nontroversy until somebody brings a flag nobody's ever heard of to a campaign event.

768 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:55:08pm

re: #752 palomino

just one more reason why the right still hates McCain.

It's an odd love hate relationship. Beck was calling him a liberal the other day. Recently he was picked as the leader of the GOP according to a Harris Poll:

Poll: McCain is leader of GOP

Sen. John McCain of Arizona is the most influential player in the Republican Party, according to a new Harris Poll out Thursday.

Sixty-four percent of the 2,276 adults surveyed nationwide said McCain is influential in steering the direction of the Republican Party, a 14-percentage-point edge over his closest rivals: former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and radio host Rush Limbaugh, both of whom were rated as influential by 50 percent all of those polled.

Even among just the Republican polled, McCain ran away from the field, getting picked by 68 percent. Only former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney was also picked as influential by at least 60 percent of Republicans....

769 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:55:38pm

re: #748 Walter L. Newton

I don't blame him entirely though. It was a good try to get everyone to work together, but that only should have lasted until it bacame clear that the GOP wasn't being an honest player. At that point, I would have pulled out a big can of rhetorical whoop ass, and not given a good goddamn whether anybody liked me or not.

I also blame him for not having a master plan for the legislation. He tried to do something monolithic or at least he allowed Congress to build something monolithic which was likely to fail.

If he had taken an incremental approach by tackling insurance first and attacking the most hideous and outrageous sins of the insurance industry, he could have notched a quick success and gone on. As it is, he may be forced to replan his strategy which all in all may be a good thing.

770 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:56:04pm

re: #757 Alouette

Oh noes! It's da Great LFG Seekrit Conspiracy!

BTW whatever happened to the Morlocks? Big Lizard eated them?

That's what I was thinking about!
I just "hearted" that so I can find it again when needed.
btw - my Ahava order came in today - yummy!

771 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:56:04pm

re: #744 brookly red

I still don't trust anyone who says their 21 & knows what tax bracket they are in :)

I was a tax deduction when I was that age.

772 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:56:24pm

re: #765 Kevitivity

Sigh, do a LGF search on the tea parties...

773 jaunte  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:56:38pm

re: #758 reine.de.tout

Didn't specifically notice the date, but I thought the art looked sort of Depression era-ish.

I still think they're wrong on modern inventions. It's closer to 60.

Sorry, I didn't see that the first time. These confounded 'difference engines' require an excessive acuity.

774 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:57:08pm

re: #755 albusteve

You assume that he can't learn from his mistakes. I don't think he's that stupid.

775 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:57:11pm

re: #771 MandyManners

I was a tax deduction when I was that age.

I was a liberal... got better.

776 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:57:12pm

re: #761 JasonA

At least he didn't lose a couple of towers in his first year.

most likely because he has kept all of the Bush admin security measures in place...but you knew that

777 ryannon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:57:38pm

re: #764 jamesfirecat

I know the zipcode of my home because I've had to fill it out on a bunch of forms and for a while it was part of my AIM password.

As me what the zipcode of my college is on the other hand...

Sniff. Sniff, sniff. No, it can't be. Not so soon anyway.

Lowers head and goes back to dozing on his rock.

778 cronus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:58:12pm

OT: You've got to hand it to liberals, when they form a circular firing squad they shoot to kill:

Krugman: He Wasn’t The One We’ve Been Waiting For

779 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:58:29pm

re: #776 albusteve

Uh huh. I was really just trying to get at where you set your bar for a "proven bust" after a year in office.

780 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:58:31pm

re: #775 brookly red

I was a liberal... got better.

LIke wine and cheese.

781 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:59:08pm

re: #663 albusteve

when I say I hate the feds, I've had all kinds of groovy lectures about fireman, bridges and national parks...pretty funny

Are you opposed to these things, or in favor?

782 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:59:27pm

re: #770 reine.de.tout

That's what I was thinking about!
I just "hearted" that so I can find it again when needed.
btw - my Ahava order came in today - yummy!

I know you will enjoy it! The "Fig & Hibiscus" is my favorite, and I have all the "flavors"

783 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:59:39pm

re: #778 cronus

OT: You've got to hand it to liberals, when they form a circular firing squad they shoot to kill:

Krugman: He Wasn’t The One We’ve Been Waiting For

Hey now, NY-23 shows the the GOP is quite good at forming their own firing squads...
/Politicians, in general, specialize in blowing off their own foots. ;)

784 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:59:41pm

re: #774 PT Barnum

You assume that he can't learn from his mistakes. I don't think he's that stupid.

yes he is...

785 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 5:59:50pm

Sleep Talkin Man

Dude talks in his sleep. Wife writes down what he says.

Excerpts:

"My bagder's gonna unleash hell on your ass. Badgertastic!"

"No, not the cats. Don't trust them. Their eyes. Their eyes. They know too much."

"Just look at yourself. Yeah, now look at me. You don't stand a chance. It must suck to be you, I'm sure."

Funny shit Maynard!

786 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:00:49pm

re: #780 MandyManners

LIke wine and cheese.

less whine more cheese...

787 miclaine  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:01:36pm

re: #765 Kevitivity

If the baby is smaller gov't, responsible representation, term limits, etc. then ok. If the baby is the nasty other stuff, then I feel no sir, not with me.

788 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:02:13pm

re: #778 cronus

OT: You've got to hand it to liberals, when they form a circular firing squad they shoot to kill:

Krugman: He Wasn’t The One We’ve Been Waiting For

From the article "more specifically, House Democrats need to be told to pass the Senate bill, which isn’t what they wanted but is vastly better than nothing."

Yep, true believer in democracy.

789 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:02:43pm

re: #765 Kevitivity

I disagree. The prostep is to see which non-crazy TP voters we can attract and then marginalize their nutcase leaders. The Tea Parties are a destructive force, but we might be able to retain their sane members if we're smart.

790 palomino  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:03:12pm

re: #630 albusteve

there will be no services...services are for the weak

Of course. Real Americans burn their trash, put out their own forest fires and investigate homicides during their spare time.

791 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:03:13pm

re: #780 MandyManners

LIke wine and cheese.

Upding for the Napa Valley reference ...

792 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:03:37pm

re: #682 Killgore Trout

Why does that get downdings?

Because while it's acceptable to posit defeating the Nazis as a justification for American military intervention, it's tacky to do so to as a justification for paying your taxes?

I dunno. They're having the tax conversation, and I can't participate in that much, because I end up screaming about Isaiah and Oliver Wendell Holmes. Just hanging out and snarking.

793 keloyd  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:04:18pm

They just replayed Brown's "my daughters are available" quote which I heard in its entirety the first time. BRILLIANT! He is a witty, charismatic guy who doesn't take himself too seriously. There was nothing offensive or sexist about it at all, taken on the whole, though bits of the minute or two of riffing could be taken without context and seem a bit off-color.

Now I like this guy, tea party nuts or not.

794 ryannon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:04:28pm

re: #791 HoosierHoops

Upding for the Napa Valley reference ...

No Wimpy Wines.

795 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:05:06pm

re: #792 SanFranciscoZionist

Because while it's acceptable to posit defeating the Nazis as a justification for American military intervention, it's tacky to do so to as a justification for paying your taxes?

I dunno. They're having the tax conversation, and I can't participate in that much, because I end up screaming about Isaiah and Oliver Wendell Holmes. Just hanging out and snarking.

Good plan. I've been doing that the past week, since I'm utterly burnt-out on Teh Crazee.
:)

796 ryannon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:05:20pm

re: #794 ryannon

"No Wimpy Wines".

797 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:05:21pm

re: #784 albusteve

You don't graduate magna cum laude from Harvard by being a dumbass

798 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:05:35pm

re: #785 Racer X

Sleep Talkin Man

Dude talks in his sleep. Wife writes down what he says.

Excerpts:

Funny shit Maynard!

"Let me hold you in my arms. Feel me squeeze the living fucking breath out of your bastard body. Bliss. Lovely."

"Skipping to work makes everything better."

"I haven't put on weight. Your eyes are fat."

"I'd rather peel off my skin and bathe my weeping raw flesh in a bath of vinegar than spend any time with you. But that's just my opinion. Don't take it personally."

"Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."

"Lentils are evil. Pure fucking oozing evil. Take them away from me."

"My vision of hell is a lentil casserole."

"By the way, washing in rose water doesn't stop you smelling like a piece of shit."

"Avocados? You can shove them up your ass as well."

"Be happy happy happy happy."

"Now fuck off and let me bask in the glory of being me."

799 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:05:41pm

re: #781 SanFranciscoZionist

Are you opposed to these things, or in favor?

I hate the National Parks...sell them and develop them for low income housing...institute a private ferry system and get the feds out of the bridge business...as for fireman, I see nothing that volunteer cannot handle...why should my tax money be spent saving lives and private property?...it's not my skyscraper

800 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:05:47pm

re: #792 SanFranciscoZionist

Because while it's acceptable to posit defeating the Nazis as a justification for American military intervention, it's tacky to do so to as a justification for paying your taxes?

I dunno. They're having the tax conversation, and I can't participate in that much, because I end up screaming about Isaiah and Oliver Wendell Holmes. Just hanging out and snarking.

No. It's about not wanting to be taxed at higher and higher rates.

801 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:06:23pm

re: #799 albusteve

Hmmm...

802 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:07:48pm

Time will tell if Senator-Elect Brown embraces the bad actors of the far right or throws them under the bus. As a lifelong new Englander who grew up in Massachusetts, I can say with a a good deal of certainty that most Republicans who get themselves elected in New England tend to be more moderate than those in the south. Because any Republican who is elected in New England MUST get lots of support from Democrat voters. And the far right types would not be succesful in this region.

803 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:08:57pm

re: #797 PT Barnum

You don't graduate magna cum laude from Harvard by being a dumbass

who knows...have you seen his school records?...maybe Soros bought him a degree...maybe Brown is an extremist...maybe the moon is made out of polyester...maybe we're all gonna drown when the glaciers melt

804 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:09:06pm

re: #799 albusteve

Wow.

805 palomino  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:10:15pm

re: #673 Barflytom

Still fighting the 2008 election over Rev. Wright? You're the definition of a dead-ender.

Is the issue still relevant? No. Do we even know that Obama was in church when Wright said salacious stuff like "god damn America"? No.

But you still cling to it--because it's a bright shiny talking point! Congrats.

806 brookly red  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:10:29pm

re: #796 ryannon

Wines from Chile are good...

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

Napa will have to wait..

807 recusancy  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:10:46pm

re: #803 albusteve

who knows...have you seen his school records?...maybe Soros bought him a degree...maybe Brown is an extremist...maybe the moon is made out of polyester...maybe we're all gonna drown when the glaciers melt


Take your own advice.

808 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:10:48pm

re: #801 Varek Raith

Hmmm...

Leave him alone. Steve's just cranky.

809 Racer X  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:11:08pm

re: #799 albusteve

Somebody wake Steve up - he's talkin in his sleep again.

810 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:11:31pm

re: #808 Dark_Falcon

Leave him alone. Steve's just cranky.

Yeah, hence the 'hmm'. :)

811 Cheechako  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:11:47pm

re: #802 _RememberTonyC

Time will tell if Senator-Elect Brown embraces the bad actors of the far right or throws them under the bus. As a lifelong new Englander who grew up in Massachusetts, I can say with a a good deal of certainty that most Republicans who get themselves elected in New England tend to be more moderate than those in the south. Because any Republican who is elected in New England MUST get lots of support from Democrat voters. And the far right types would not be succesful in this region.


I agree. The Massachusetts town I grew up in went to Brown 2 to 1. I was shocked!

812 ryannon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:11:55pm

re: #799 albusteve

I hate the National Parks...sell them and develop them for low income housing...institute a private ferry system and get the feds out of the bridge business...as for fireman, I see nothing that volunteer cannot handle...why should my tax money be spent saving lives and private property?...it's not my skyscraper

When are you going live with this? And on what station?

813 stayfrosty  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:12:34pm

Charles, did you even listen to the original audio from the Huffington Post article? It includes a full transcript now:

QUESTION: "Scott, what do you think about the Tea Party movement and what they are trying to do?"

BROWN: "I am not quite sure what you are talking about, what are they trying to do?"

QUESTION: "The anti-smaller government, sort of anti-establishment organization that is trying to take over the country."

BROWN: "Taking over the country. I think that is a little bit of an exaggeration."

QUESTION: "Well, they are all over the place and they are trying to take down moderate Republicans. . ."

BROWN: "All I know is that. . . "

QUESTION: "Are you completely unaware of that organization?"

BROWN: "I'm not quite sure what you are referring to. But let me just say that this is a big tent campaign..."

I don't see how you can read that and come away with the idea that Scott Brown said he "professed to be unfamiliar with the Tea Party", when any objective reading of the transcript shows he was clearly stating his disagreement with the interviewer's premise that the Tea Party was "trying to take over the country," not denying he'd ever heard of them.

And all that after you spent so much time favorably interpreting Danny Glover's global warming-Haiti comments only a few days ago...

814 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:12:35pm

re: #804 MandyManners

Wow.

think of the apartments we could pack into Cades Cove

815 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:13:32pm

re: #809 Racer X

Somebody wake Steve up - he's talkin in his sleep again.

just responding to the stupidest question of the year

816 palomino  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:13:54pm

re: #799 albusteve

Well played, sir. I'm sure all of us can agree that we'd have been better off on 9/11 with volunteer firefighters from Hoboken and Hackensack running around lower Manhattan.

817 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:14:20pm

re: #776 albusteve

most likely because he has kept all of the Bush admin security measures in place...but you knew that

But why? We all know he doesn't realize we're at war.

/

818 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:14:49pm

re: #813 stayfrosty

Flinging hostility at Charles is unwise.

819 BruceKelly  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:15:21pm

re: #815 albusteve

just responding to the stupidest question of the year

ahh... sarcasm.

820 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:15:59pm

re: #813 stayfrosty

Charles, did you even listen to the original audio from the Huffington Post article? It includes a full transcript now:

I don't see how you can read that and come away with the idea that Scott Brown said he "professed to be unfamiliar with the Tea Party", when any objective reading of the transcript shows he was clearly stating his disagreement with the interviewer's premise that the Tea Party was "trying to take over the country," not denying he'd ever heard of them.

And all that after you spent so much time favorably interpreting Danny Glover's global warming-Haiti comments only a few days ago...


One thing I can't help but noticing "anti-smaller government" line. Verbal gaffe?

821 recusancy  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:16:25pm

re: #813 stayfrosty

822 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:17:56pm

re: #799 albusteve

I hate the National Parks...sell them and develop them for low income housing...institute a private ferry system and get the feds out of the bridge business...as for fireman, I see nothing that volunteer cannot handle...why should my tax money be spent saving lives and private property?...it's not my skyscraper

Remind me not to move in anywhere near you.

823 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:18:25pm

re: #815 albusteve

Badly stated, but a valid question.

What are the things you believe are valid/invalid to spend taxes on?

824 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:19:17pm

re: #823 PT Barnum

Badly stated, but a valid question.

What are the things you believe are valid/invalid to spend taxes on?

the USMC

825 albusteve  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:20:06pm

re: #822 SanFranciscoZionist

Remind me not to move in anywhere near you.

why?...I have no beef with you

826 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:21:01pm

re: #824 albusteve

the USMC

Ah, they could be easily replaced by local weekend militias.

///

827 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:21:17pm

re: #799 albusteve

I hate the National Parks...sell them and develop them for low income housing...institute a private ferry system and get the feds out of the bridge business...as for fireman, I see nothing that volunteer cannot handle...why should my tax money be spent saving lives and private property?...it's not my skyscraper

Hold on, I just had a flash of insight, you know what we need to start doing? Forget cap and trade and trying to stop people from messing up the Earth, lets just start charging people for the air they breath! After all O^2 is a resource which there isn't a limited supply of why should those moochers on food stamps get theirs for free when that air rightfully belong to good old fashioned working Americans!

828 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:22:03pm

re: #794 ryannon

No Wimpy Wines.

*wink*
Back in the day...When we were in college in the Valley..Napa Valley was mostly farmer boys in College...
There was a time when you scammed the bars in the Valley....And you were from Hollywood..you were in trouble...There were so many fights...
But overall.. Napa has always welcomed SoCal and Hollywood...We always will..Napa Loves visitors..It is the greatest spot in the world..
I'm a homer!

829 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:22:29pm

re: #825 albusteve

why?...I have no beef with you

I might want to buy a skyscraper. And I'm bad with fire hoses above three stories.

830 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:23:02pm

re: #829 SanFranciscoZionist

I might want to buy a skyscraper. And I'm bad with fire hoses above three stories.

The hell ya gonna do with a skyscraper?
/:)

831 stayfrosty  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:23:23pm

re: #818 Dark_Falcon

Flinging hostility at Charles is unwise.

I apologize--to Charles and lizardoids. Didn't mean to come off combative. I was just stunned that the article so blatantly misrepresented what Brown said.

832 Gus  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:24:14pm

If I were a political adviser I would suggest that Brown or any others planning to run in the future to drop that flag and drop Jeff McQueen. This is nothing to be associated with in the end not after reading one of McQueens comments:

"This flag has never been meant to replace the national flag. This flag has a specific purpose and it's time has come. To show the politicians and the media that we're ready for a second American revolution. And with that, you know, in America we have a choice of four boxes for political change. We can go to the soap box, the ballot box, or we can go to the jury box. And hopefully we won't have to go to the bullet box."

Otherwise I'm giving Scott Brown the benefit of the doubt on this.

833 generalsparky  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:24:27pm

re: #831 stayfrosty

I agreed with you too :-(

834 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:24:41pm

I think it's good that Charles and others are keeping an eye on the Scott Brown/Tea Party connections or whatever you want to call it. But I think Brown deserves a bit of time to let the dust settle before we paint him with the "teabagger" brush. He just pulled off a political miracle and I'm sure his world is spinning very fast. So I will give him a grace period of sorts and listen to his views before I decide if he is more Jack Kemp or Ron Paul.

835 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:25:15pm
836 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:25:53pm

re: #832 Gus 802

If I were a political adviser I would suggest that Brown or any others planning to run in the future to drop that flag and drop Jeff McQueen. This is nothing to be associated with in the end not after reading one of McQueens comments:

Otherwise I'm giving Scott Brown the benefit of the doubt on this.

I believe Malcolm X once made a similar point for better or worse...

837 stayfrosty  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:26:42pm

re: #821 recusancy

Yes, and? I never implied Scott Brown said he didn't know about the Tea Party. If you read my post, you'd see I was making the exact opposite point.

838 Blue Fin  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:27:40pm

re: #731 rwdflynavy

Ha...good reply. It's a stretch to describe someone a hater whose calls BS on Obama's late renouncing of Wright. Hell, every politican running for office has to renounce someone or something. Obama's object of renouncement was just to big to sweep under the rug. Plus I think Obama's association with Wright was a political purpose from the outset...at least I hope so or our Prez has some deep seeded issues.

839 barflytom  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:33:13pm

re: #718 Charles

President Obama made a VERY strong statement denouncing Rev. Wright. As far as I was concerned, he ended the issue with that statement.

Of course, if you're a hyper-partisan Obama-hater, I can see why you wouldn't want to let go of it, ever.

If it was just something he'd done when he was twenty, then yes, it should probably be left alone - except by us rabid Obama-haters of course.
But he was still prepared to associate with Ayers and Wright for example when he was well into his thirties / forties.

Quote from Obama's speech...
"I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Rev. Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain.

Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely -- just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice.

Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country....."

He's struggling a bit there I think. I'm not prepared to accept his case that there was something uniquely over-the-top about the sermons that made it onto TV. Is he trying to say that he spent 20 years listening to Wright, but those particular remarks were the ONLY ONES he'd heard that crossed the line ? So there was no need to get around to finding a new church to go to until, purely coincidentally, he was running for president ?

To be fair to Obama, he probably didn't give much thought to the matter since I dare say he knows plenty of people who are much more anti-American than Rev Wright.

840 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:36:31pm

This has certainly been en eyeopening post--and particularly comment thread.
Seems quite a few people still have the reaction of "Who are ya gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?"

I wonder exactly how many posts we need about the tea parties and their crap before some people are going to be willing to break Reagan's 11th commandment and criticise a fellow Republican.

But, if the townhall lunacy, the bringing of weapons to them, the racist signs at teabagger rallies, and more haven't yet convinced people there's a real and growing extremism on the right yet, I guess nothing will.

841 brainwizard73  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:37:45pm

Perhaps someone could indicate what this has to do with the price of tea in China....

So what are we to draw from this? A republican had a tea party person in the hall? Alert the media. Have you heard about the Lindbergh baby?

842 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:37:46pm

re: #839 barflytom

Just let Wright go. It's not even last year's story! Geeze Louise!

843 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:38:16pm

re: #827 jamesfirecat

Hold on, I just had a flash of insight, you know what we need to start doing? Forget cap and trade and trying to stop people from messing up the Earth, lets just start charging people for the air they breath! After all O^2 is a resource which there isn't a limited supply of why should those moochers on food stamps get theirs for free when that air rightfully belong to good old fashioned working Americans!

Yeah! What makes people think they have a 'right' to breathe, anyway? Like health care, it isn't in the Constitution!
///

844 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:44:57pm

re: #841 brainwizard73

Perhaps someone could indicate what this has to do with the price of tea in China...

So what are we to draw from this? A republican had a tea party person in the hall? Alert the media. Have you heard about the Lindbergh baby?

Check the next thread and you'll see the relevance.

845 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:51:21pm

re: #745 PT Barnum

one of the best lines I've heard in a while.

Not original with me, if you're collecting.

846 Barflytom  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 6:56:29pm

re: #842 Dark_Falcon

Just let Wright go. It's not even last year's story! Geeze Louise!

Hmm, yes, I could have finished off a beer in the time I spent writing that.

More to the point though, Republicans do seem to have to be vastly more careful to disassociate themselves from people they were never really associated with in the first place. I think there really is a mismatch in the number of Dems with a cast of colourful characters in their past.

847 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:09:26pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think it was pretty obvious who was going to attach themselves to the campaign.

Maybe he can stick one in his (r)ear.

848 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:10:36pm

re: #846 Barflytom

Hmm, yes, I could have finished off a beer in the time I spent writing that.

More to the point though, Republicans do seem to have to be vastly more careful to disassociate themselves from people they were never really associated with in the first place. I think there really is a mismatch in the number of Dems with a cast of colourful characters in their past.

Really? Republicans don't associate with tea partiers?

In which world is this? Because in this world, top Republican politicians like Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, and many others are going to be giving speeches at the National Tea Party Convention next month.

It's absurd to claim there's some kind of bias against Republicans here. Even the head of the RNC, Michael Steele, is now openly pandering to the teabag crowd.

849 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:26:01pm

re: #840 iceweasel

This has certainly been en eyeopening post--and particularly comment thread.
Seems quite a few people still have the reaction of "Who are ya gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?"

I wonder exactly how many posts we need about the tea parties and their crap before some people are going to be willing to break Reagan's 11th commandment and criticise a fellow Republican.

But, if the townhall lunacy, the bringing of weapons to them, the racist signs at teabagger rallies, and more haven't yet convinced people there's a real and growing extremism on the right yet, I guess nothing will.

I agree there is a real and growing extremism on the right, and I find it disgusting and frightening. And I have agreed with and joined in the criticism of Michelle Bachman and many other Republicans who've drunk the kool-aid.

I'm not, however, quite ready yet to criticise Brown. As of this particular moment, until there's more of a record to evaluate, it appears to me that the Tea People glommed onto Brown in a sort of desperation move (the folks at National Review twisted themselves into knots trying to figure out how to write in support of Brown).

Now it may turn out to be that Brown is a full-fledged revolution-minded tea-partier. I hope that's not the case. In any event, the election was held, Brown won, and I am hoping that instead of getting sucked into tea-party craziness, he is able to pull people back into the realm of sanity. That's what I hope happens. Time will tell.

850 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:26:26pm

Well, good evening, folks... How is everyone on this cold, snowy night?

851 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:27:08pm

re: #850 CapeCoddah

Well, good evening, folks... How is everyone on this cold, snowy night?

They're basically all in the next thread, I think. I'm just looking in here for a minute. How are you tonight?

852 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:27:43pm

Just fine... shall we go over?

853 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:28:02pm

re: #852 CapeCoddah

Just fine... shall we go over?

Sure!

854 idioma  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:40:13pm

Yesterday I pointed out that Scott is in bed with these guys.

TheMatrix31 said:

THOSE people are crazy. I don't give a shit who supports people like Scott Brown. If it means it keeps the people I listed ABOVE out of power, then I dont give a damn.

I guess the only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history. If you thought the Bush admin was bad, just wait until we're all drinking tea. This is some bad crazy for sure.

855 barflytom  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 9:02:17pm

re: #848 Charles

Really? Republicans don't associate with tea partiers?

In which world is this? Because in this world, top Republican politicians like Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, and many others are going to be giving speeches at the National Tea Party Convention next month.

It's absurd to claim there's some kind of bias against Republicans here. Even the head of the RNC, Michael Steele, is now openly pandering to the teabag crowd.

I wasn't referring to the tea partiers, rather my year-out-of-date point about Rev Wright. Obama has advisors and appointees in his administration who are way out there in loony left territory. Giving a speech to tea partiers, and thereby being an associate of associates of right wing fringe loonies isn't the same thing.
Do you think Dodd, Rangel, either Clinton, Byrd, Frank, etc, given their pasts, would be viable candidates if they were Republicans? I think there's a bias in the standards of personal behaviour that are tolerated, and in Obama's case, an amazing willigness to ignore his Chicago cronies, voting record, leftist idealogy etc. I'm concerned about who actually gets into office, what their beliefs are, and what they do while in office, not who chooses to support them.

856 predator_intelligence  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 9:34:28pm

I am kind of tired of hearing people bash on the tea partiers.

First off as it relates to this post.

- Are you saying that in Mass they have enough influence to swing an election? Please! That state is a liberal bastion. Self identified Republicans are a minority. Tea party members would be a minority of that. So no way with the overwhelming numbers of Dems and Independents are tea partiers going to swing an election. Did they support Brown? Sure

Now in general after watching them over the past 6-8 months here is what they seem to be for.

- Limited government
- Against the concept of the gov running health care
- Upset about a stimulus that was not a stimulus and really seemed to be money send to preferred constituencies that have nothing to do with helping the economy
- Upset about the increased levels of debt the government is incurring
- Upset about what appears to be the possibility of higher taxes
- Upset that really out of the past year...virtually NONE of the policies proposed are very business friendly, consumer friendly, etc. Nothing out there helps biz creates jobs, puts more money in our pockets, etc.

Now people may disagree with the above points I think fairly reflects what the tea party wants....but there is nothing racist, or terribly right wing about that. To be honest...the above points really fall more in lines with a libertarian philosophy.

Are the some kooks affiliated with the tea party movement? Hell yes! Does that somehow make the overall message less valid? Hell no.

Do I think the vast majority of the tea partiers racist, hard right, etc? No. I think a fair look at what you see are people that really just want smaller or less intrusive government.

That is what I want. I don't want gov telling me what to do with my cash or biz, nor do I want them telling me what I can or cannot do personally. So I too want less taxes, don't want gov running health care, do not want infringements on free speech, want my guns, do not want gov involved in marriage issues, don't want gov telling gays what they can or cannot do, want to end the drug war (which over time has increasingly restricted our rights).

Enough said.

857 tradewind  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 11:09:28pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You mean you saw all those independents and 11% or so of the Dems coming down the pike for Brown?
Farm House!

858 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 11:12:06pm

re: #850 CapeCoddah

Well, good evening, folks... How is everyone on this cold, snowy night?

Snow? What means snow?

859 Bingo.Long  Wed, Jan 20, 2010 11:41:26pm

They're not "Teabaggers," they're hard-right white-America Republicans who won't admit to it after Bush. They couldn't run the country if they tried--they're too stupid.

861 BunnyThief  Thu, Jan 21, 2010 3:50:15am

re: #858 Mr Pancakes

Snow? What means snow?

You're going to the special hell, reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theatre.

It's a very, very, very cold hell...

(Lifelong New Hampshirite)

862 Kruk  Thu, Jan 21, 2010 5:31:18am

re: #861 BunnyThief

You're going to the special hell, reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theatre.

It's a very, very, very cold hell...

(Lifelong New Hampshirite)

This may well be dead threading, but I just had to upding the Firefly reference. And Joss, what on earth possessed you to bring Dollhouse to Fox after what happened before?

863 koedo  Thu, Jan 21, 2010 9:41:54am

I think we should be careful to not make too many assumptions. First, not all the 'teabaggers' are violent and/or crazy. Second, I find it hard to believe that anyone as checking credentials at the door to his victory party. Furthermore, estimates have it that around 1 in 5 Democrats in Massachusetts voted for Brown as well as a large majority of Independents. Clearly, not all teabaggers. It's a big tent to borrow a saying.

I'm just urging caution so as not to make blanket statements about ant given politicians supporters. Case in point, during the National Presidential elections, Obama received support from some shadowy groups, (Black Panther incident, William Ayers, ACORN). I didn't draw the conclusion that Obama was a Panther or even sympathized with Ayers or ACORN.

I'm only suggesting that we take a step back before we paint the whole picture one color.

864 Diane  Thu, Jan 21, 2010 11:53:10am

Criticizing a politician is much easier than to actually walk in his/her shoes.

865 Euler  Thu, Jan 21, 2010 9:23:09pm

Is Übermensch right about Scott Brown?

866 BunnyThief  Fri, Jan 22, 2010 3:06:28am

re: #863 koedo

I'm just urging caution so as not to make blanket statements about ant given politicians supporters. Case in point, during the National Presidential elections, Obama received support from some shadowy groups, (Black Panther incident, William Ayers, ACORN). I didn't draw the conclusion that Obama was a Panther or even sympathized with Ayers or ACORN.

I'm only suggesting that we take a step back before we paint the whole picture one color.

I really, really don't want to be dead-threading, but Obama's associations with Ayers and ACORN go back to the earliest days of his political career, and Obama chose to associate himself with both. He launched his political career in Ayers' home, and worked for ACORN, long before he ever ran for national office.

867 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Jan 22, 2010 3:29:03am

re: #866 BunnyThief

I really, really don't want to be dead-threading, but Obama's associations with Ayers and ACORN go back to the earliest days of his political career, and Obama chose to associate himself with both. He launched his political career in Ayers' home, and worked for ACORN, long before he ever ran for national office.

Obama never worked for ACORN. He was one of three lawyers who represented a case in which ACORN was the lead plantiff. Others who supported ACORN in it include the Department of Justice.

The only involvement I've had with ACORN was I represented them alongside the U.S. Justice Department in making Illinois implement a motor voter law that helped people get registered at DMVs."


You can read it all at politifact-- Obama did direct a voter reg project for Project Vote back in 92, and in 92 Project Vote and ACORN were still separate organisations.
I don't expect this to calm down anyone who is still worried about ACORN and/or Bill Ayers, even now, but there you go.


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