Here’s a wonky but not overly technical discussion of the virtues and flaws in President Obama’s plan to address the failures of large banks, by Sebastian Mallaby at the Washington Post: Obama’s bank solution goes too far — and not far enough.
1 |
Unakite Fri, Jan 22, 2010 3:58:36pm |
Based on the stock market, it looks like he might be going too far.
| 2 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:00:09pm |
If they're too big to fail, they're too big to remain unregulated. We saw what happened in 2008.
| 3 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:02:17pm |
It's like anything else... tax the banks & they pass the costs on to the consumer. Makes the class warfare people even poorer, but they fell much better about it.
| 4 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:02:45pm |
whatever the new regs, they absolutely have to get this one right...the first time, or very close to it
| 5 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:03:36pm |
re: #4 albusteve
whatever the new regs, they absolutely have to get this one right...the first time, or very close to it
don't drop the soap...
| 6 |
Unakite Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:06:01pm |
re: #3 brookly red
It's like anything else... tax the banks & they pass the costs on to the consumer. Makes the class warfare people even poorer, but they fell much better about it.
That's the one thing I can't figure out. All the "us vs. them" and "we'll make them pay," and they just don't get that the costs will eventually get passed on (sh*t flows downhill), and cost more for the consumer in the long run.
| 7 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:06:19pm |
re: #1 Unakite
Based on the stock market, it looks like he might be going too far.
You can pretty safely ignore those headlines. Remember when the headlines were saying the jump in the market was because of Bown's impending victory? The market dumped over 400 points after he won. This recent down turn started the day before Obama's comments on the banks and is the result of earnings reports and continued international banking and economic problems. Obama's comments probably had very little effect.
| 8 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:06:56pm |
I think there should be a firewall between Wall Street and Banks..
I don't want my Banker sitting in his office thinking Enron is the smartest investment he had ever heard of..
| 9 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:07:05pm |
re: #6 Unakite
That's the one thing I can't figure out. All the "us vs. them" and "we'll make them pay," and they just don't get that the costs will eventually get passed on (sh*t flows downhill), and cost more for the consumer in the long run.
Who paid for the biggest bank bailout in history? Why are the banks making themselves out to be victims when they were one of the largest recipients of government largesse ever?
| 10 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:07:56pm |
re: #6 Unakite
That's the one thing I can't figure out. All the "us vs. them" and "we'll make them pay," and they just don't get that the costs will eventually get passed on (sh*t flows downhill), and cost more for the consumer in the long run.
divide and conquer... same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was...
| 11 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:08:21pm |
re: #9 ralphieboy
Who paid for the biggest bank bailout in history? Why are the banks making themselves out to be victims when they were one of the largest recipients of government largesse ever?
the loan was repaid.
| 12 |
keloyd Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:08:33pm |
I feel better about this knowing Paul Volcker is on the case. His track record is excellent, though at age 82 this may be his last crisis. It was he who sorted out the stagflation in the early 80s. Cranking up interest rates to curb inflation, and increase unemployment temporarily in order goose the system back to normal took an iron will and good economist kung fu. Reagan just stayed out of his way and eventually took the credit. He is ideologically pragmatic as well, and this is no time for idealism to trump the facts.
| 13 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:08:39pm |
re: #7 Killgore Trout
You can pretty safely ignore those headlines. Remember when the headlines were saying the jump in the market was because of Bown's impending victory? The market dumped over 400 points after he won. This recent down turn started the day before Obama's comments on the banks and is the result of earnings reports and continued international banking and economic problems. Obama's comments probably had very little effect.
Exactly. Trying to govern based on the day to day market is about the dumbest thing anybody could do.
| 14 |
Escaped Hillbilly Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:08:40pm |
re: #10 brookly red
divide and conquer... same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was...
ditto
| 15 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:09:39pm |
re: #8 HoosierHoops
I think there should be a firewall between Wall Street and Banks..
I don't want my Banker sitting in his office thinking Enron is the smartest investment he had ever heard of..
Me too. The article Charles links to thinks it's going to far to prohibit the banks from trading. I think the bugs can be worked out of that. I do agree that the "Too big to fail" tax probably isn't a great idea. Banks will just pass on the cost to everyone else. I'd rather see the mega banks broken up into smaller ones.
| 16 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:10:11pm |
I like Mayor Bloomber's thoughts:
The mayor was so upset about the move -- and a suggestion that Wall Street bonuses be put in escrow, which means the money wouldn't be spent here, wouldn't help the city economy -- he responded with a proposal of his own for members of Congress.
"Maybe we should hold back their salaries for a decade or so and see whether the laws they pass work out," Bloomberg said.
Link:
[Link: wcbstv.com...]
| 17 |
TampaKnight Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:10:35pm |
If there's one thing I'm not, it's a financial expert. The scope and size of what these companies do far exceeds what I know. I just hope we have intelligent, sane, wise, and just people making the calls that have the interest of the people and the free markets in mind.
| 18 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:11:57pm |
re: #15 Killgore Trout
Me too. The article Charles links to thinks it's going to far to prohibit the banks from trading. I think the bugs can be worked out of that. I do agree that the "Too big to fail" tax probably isn't a great idea. Banks will just pass on the cost to everyone else. I'd rather see the mega banks broken up into smaller ones.
wouldn't that be nice...probably no going to happen tho, those days are gone forever
| 19 |
Donna Ballard Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:11:57pm |
I'm over my head with this one. I read the article. I'm shaking my head in anger. And yet I have no answer to the crap to whats happening except we need to get the buggers under control somehow. I know my bank dings me real bad when I have problem with the account, I know my credit card companies are raping me each month with the interest rates and paying me peanuts on my savings accounts. How do we stop this B.S? I don't know, I just don't know....
| 20 |
Escaped Hillbilly Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:12:14pm |
re: #16 Floral Giraffe
I like Mayor Bloomber's thoughts:
The mayor was so upset about the move -- and a suggestion that Wall Street bonuses be put in escrow, which means the money wouldn't be spent here, wouldn't help the city economy -- he responded with a proposal of his own for members of Congress.
"Maybe we should hold back their salaries for a decade or so and see whether the laws they pass work out," Bloomberg said.
Link:
[Link: wcbstv.com...]
That's a good idea for all bills (whether or not he's right in this one case.)
| 21 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:13:29pm |
re: #19 Dragon_Lady
I'm over my head with this one. I read the article. I'm shaking my head in anger. And yet I have no answer to the crap to whats happening except we need to get the buggers under control somehow. I know my bank dings me real bad when I have problem with the account, I know my credit card companies are raping me each month with the interest rates and paying me peanuts on my savings accounts. How do we stop this B.S? I don't know, I just don't know...
change cards every time toy get a zero interest startup in the mail
| 22 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:13:35pm |
re: #13 recusancy
Yeah, the newspapers just create those headlines to generate clicks from partisan hacks. I noticed that whenever there's a fed securities auction most outlets will create two versions of an article. One says "Fed auction falls flat" for the doomsday community and another says "Fed holds record breaking auction, exceeds estimates".
| 23 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:13:42pm |
Gawd forbid the banks actually use their profits to expand & hire... hire as in create jobs.
| 24 |
Bagua Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:13:53pm |
I'm reprinting this little primer I posted yesterday in case anyone finds it helpful:
For those a bit confused by the new banking restrictions proposed by Obama:
His proposal to ban "prop trading" by banks means preventing the banks from engaging in 'proprietary' trading.
This has several meanings in the business, but in essence, it means the trader is trading either his own money or the firms money, but not customer money. It also means that trader is trading his own method, if he is following orders, he would be a Principal Trader, for one example.
This is separate from what a bank normally does, which is to trade and invest customer funds deposited with it.
The trading is speculative for income, but the risk parameters can vary dramatically. A market-neutral Prop trader may be completely hedged, that is, he covers his bets with opposite bets, or, he may have a certain amount of risk which could be greater than the money in his account, this is called leverage. This is particular to the individual trader and his risk manager who sets the rules.
In short, a Proprietary Trader is trading his own, and/or his firms own money, entirely separate from the banks investment clients. Or if it is an investment firm, he is trading his own strategy, but in that case he is trading client monies.
The idea is to limit banks from engaging in trading for profit with its own capital, as opposed to trading (or loaning out) its clients money.
| 25 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:14:02pm |
re: #19 Dragon_Lady
I'm over my head with this one. I read the article. I'm shaking my head in anger. And yet I have no answer to the crap to whats happening except we need to get the buggers under control somehow. I know my bank dings me real bad when I have problem with the account, I know my credit card companies are raping me each month with the interest rates and paying me peanuts on my savings accounts. How do we stop this B.S? I don't know, I just don't know...
Well... You'll get relief on your credit cards come February because of a law pasted last fall. CC companies will be much more regulated in favor of the consumer.
| 26 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:14:29pm |
re: #22 Killgore Trout
Yeah, the newspapers just create those headlines to generate clicks from partisan hacks. I noticed that whenever there's a fed securities auction most outlets will create two versions of an article. One says "Fed auction falls flat" for the doomsday community and another says "Fed holds record breaking auction, exceeds estimates".
It's drudge bait.
| 27 |
wrenchwench Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:14:41pm |
re: #17 TampaKnight
If there's one thing I'm not, it's a financial expert. The scope and size of what these companies do far exceeds what I know. I just hope we have intelligent, sane, wise, and just people making the calls that have the interest of the people and the free markets in mind.
As opposed to Ron Paul....
| 28 |
Bagua Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:14:57pm |
What Obama is doing is trying to kill the Golden Goose.
| 29 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:15:25pm |
re: #23 brookly red
Gawd forbid the banks actually use their profits to expand & hire... hire as in create jobs.
The point is that something needs to be done to prevent a repeat of the most recent meltdown. Obviously the current system has some problems.
| 30 |
Interesting Times Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:15:42pm |
Why not just do what we do?
Obama in Canada Finds World’s Best Financial System
"Solid funding and conservative consumer lending criteria are key features" of Canadian banks, said John Haynes, senior U.S. equity strategist at Rensburg Sheppards Plc in London, which oversees the equivalent of $17 billion. "This has meant that they have had their hands caught in the cookie jar to a much more limited extent than their American and European counterparts."
More from same article, emphasis mine:
Just two Canadian regional banks have failed since 1923. The only government support has been a pledge to buy as much as C$125 billion in mortgages, allowing the banks to increase lending to companies and consumers.
| 31 |
Unakite Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:15:45pm |
re: #9 ralphieboy
Who paid for the biggest bank bailout in history? Why are the banks making themselves out to be victims when they were one of the largest recipients of government largesse ever?
I understand but don't totally agree. I think the government was responsible for creating an atmosphere that allowed for a lot of stuff to happen. Not saying that the banks were innocent, but I think there is plenty of blame to go around and the banks are, somewhat, a convenient scapegoat.
| 32 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:15:51pm |
re: #28 Bagua
What Obama is doing is trying to kill the Golden Goose.
That Golden Goose nearly killed itself two years ago. he is trying to keep the cycle from recurring.
| 33 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:16:05pm |
re: #1 Unakite
Based on the stock market, it looks like he might be going too far.
Remember your Jon Stewart, the stock market went up when the Titanic went down....
| 34 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:16:43pm |
re: #4 albusteve
whatever the new regs, they absolutely have to get this one right...the first time, or very close to it
Too bad we didn't figure out how to "get it right" after the first Great Depression...
| 35 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:17:20pm |
re: #29 Killgore Trout
The point is that something needs to be done to prevent a repeat of the most recent meltdown. Obviously the current system has some problems.
and taxing will help who how?
| 36 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:17:36pm |
re: #17 TampaKnight
If there's one thing I'm not, it's a financial expert. The scope and size of what these companies do far exceeds what I know. I just hope we have intelligent, sane, wise, and just people making the calls that have the interest of the people and the free markets in mind.
That might explain your infatuation with Ron Paul.
| 37 |
keloyd Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:17:46pm |
Volker/Obama's novel solution to 'too big to fail' is 'get too big, get split up'. This was a bit upsetting to me, but legally, we have buckets full of precedent for it. Also, those of you with dim memories of econ class, remember that monopolies and oligopolies (sort of half a monopoly, just a few companies running things, so they don't compete very hard, like the auto industry decades ago) are just as much a violation of free enterprise as seekrit Muslim socialism.
Turns out "economies of scale" only sort of works in banking. I wish I could cite, but it's an academic paper in my old MBA class notes - tiny community banks outcompete their big competitors in many niches. It turns out customer service at Mayberry National Bank is more important to John Q. Costomer than whatever BofA can do with its massive resources, at least for certain customers. Also, once the biggest banks get too big they lose efficiency. It's kind of like when Wal Mart or McDonalds grew to the point they had to go overseas. Then, they were competing in unfamiliar cultures and markets, and the locals put up more of a fight, despite the advantages of being enormous.
My long winded point - a cap on bank size, if Volker does it right, together with other anti-speculation rules, will not interfere with well-run banks, imho.
| 38 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:17:48pm |
re: #29 Killgore Trout
The point is that something needs to be done to prevent a repeat of the most recent meltdown. Obviously the current system has some problems.
yeah, threats from the feds if the banks don't lend to high risk barrowers
| 39 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:18:10pm |
re: #34 jamesfirecat
Too bad we didn't figure out how to "get it right" after the first Great Depression...
We got it close to right. The New Deal laws have been slowly dismantled since the 70's.
| 40 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:18:11pm |
re: #12 keloyd
I feel better about this knowing Paul Volcker is on the case. His track record is excellent, though at age 82 this may be his last crisis. It was he who sorted out the stagflation in the early 80s. Cranking up interest rates to curb inflation, and increase unemployment temporarily in order goose the system back to normal took an iron will and good economist kung fu. Reagan just stayed out of his way and eventually took the credit. He is ideologically pragmatic as well, and this is no time for idealism to trump the facts.
I have one quibble. When is it ever time for idealism to trump the facts?
| 41 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:18:12pm |
I don't think Banks should be able to trade on Wall Street...Or be involved in any way at all..Banks..make money the old fashion way like everybody else did before you..
I'd rather send my Banker to Vegas..At least everybody knows that this game we are playing is called gambling...
| 42 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:18:15pm |
re: #38 albusteve
yeah, threats from the feds if the banks don't lend to high risk barrowers
ooops...
| 43 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:18:33pm |
re: #31 Unakite
I understand but don't totally agree. I think the government was responsible for creating an atmosphere that allowed for a lot of stuff to happen. Not saying that the banks were innocent, but I think there is plenty of blame to go around and the banks are, somewhat, a convenient scapegoat.
They failed to meet a minimum of control and oversight that could've prevented this from happening. The groundwork for that was set under Clinton in repealing the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act separating mortgage banking from investment banking, and under Bush regulations were loosened even further or and the remaining wones feebly enforced, if at all.
| 44 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:18:45pm |
AP article:
"One reason is that most big banks derive only a tiny fraction of their revenue from proprietary trading. At JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Bank of America Corp., for instance, proprietary trading brings in 1-2 percent of revenue, according to a Citigroup report. Less than 5 percent of Citi's revenue comes from proprietary trading. The figure is 3-4 percent for Morgan Stanley and less than 1 percent at Wells Fargo & Co.
"Proprietary investment restrictions probably won't have a huge impact on most banks," said Douglas Elliott, fellow at Brookings Institution and a former investment banker. "That's a pretty small part of what banks do."
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]
| 45 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:20:07pm |
re: #19 Dragon_Lady
I'm over my head with this one. I read the article. I'm shaking my head in anger. And yet I have no answer to the crap to whats happening except we need to get the buggers under control somehow. I know my bank dings me real bad when I have problem with the account, I know my credit card companies are raping me each month with the interest rates and paying me peanuts on my savings accounts. How do we stop this B.S? I don't know, I just don't know...
Why not cut up your credit cards or run a zero balance if you need one for certain things?
| 46 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:20:09pm |
re: #17 TampaKnight
If there's one thing I'm not, it's a financial expert. The scope and size of what these companies do far exceeds what I know. I just hope we have intelligent, sane, wise, and just people making the calls that have the interest of the people and the free markets in mind.
Hell I'd even be willing to let the free market get screwed a little if it helps the people. That's what social security and antitrust laws are after all...
Though of course all things need to be done in moderation because it can be pretty hard to judge just what is "for the good of the people" in the long run.
| 47 |
Donna Ballard Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:20:32pm |
re: #21 albusteve
change cards every time toy get a zero interest startup in the mail
Great in theory, but the offers are drying up and the ones I am getting are even worse! My credit rating has climbed but no one wants to roll over my cards for less than 19.9% which is outrageous! I'm just targeting one card at a time and sending extra to them each month and trying to get rid of them. I've gotten rid of a lot of debt that way but the ones I do have are unbelievable! Even with a good payment record!
| 49 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:22:10pm |
re: #28 Bagua
What Obama is doing is trying to kill the Golden Goose.
Yes and what a goose egg its been laying for us lately...
| 50 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:22:21pm |
re: #42 brookly red
ooops...
get those people into their own homes (and over their heads)...another result with cheap money, on the other hand I just laugh at the house flippers caught with their pants down...screw them
| 51 |
shala Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:22:23pm |
re: #48 MandyManners
Is Shala a Paulian?
Nope, the downding was for being snippy, which was snippy of me. Of course.
| 52 |
keloyd Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:22:57pm |
re: #24 Bagua
I just about dropped my monocle when I read that. My school days were in the Glass-Steagal days, which we're going back to, I hope I hope.
Still, they need a system of distinguishing hedging (lowering risk) from speculation. Example - lend money to Canadians. If they get revenue in that monopoly money with pictures of a girl on it or birds and stuff, then the bank shold get to hedge the foreign exchange rate risk, but be required to show the IRS and FDIC the such and such derivative purchases apply directly to such and such loans. All other options trading can be forbidden and this Republican won't mind.
| 53 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:23:17pm |
re: #30 publicityStunted
Why not just do what we do?
The question is, is that a result of government policy of the policy of the people running the banks?
(Need to read the link probably......)
| 54 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:23:22pm |
we have run out of other peoples money. time to deal with it.
| 55 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:23:35pm |
re: #47 Dragon_Lady
Great in theory, but the offers are drying up and the ones I am getting are even worse! My credit rating has climbed but no one wants to roll over my cards for less than 19.9% which is outrageous! I'm just targeting one card at a time and sending extra to them each month and trying to get rid of them. I've gotten rid of a lot of debt that way but the ones I do have are unbelievable! Even with a good payment record!
You'll get some relief and rights starting in Feb
also: [Link: articles.moneycentral.msn.com...]
| 56 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:24:08pm |
re: #37 keloyd
Except that BofA picked up the troubled assets of Merril Lynch and Countrywide, in the latest meltdown. Size DOES matter.
| 57 |
spare o'lake Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:24:23pm |
Since when is everyone entitled to realize the American dream?
| 58 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:24:27pm |
re: #47 Dragon_Lady
Great in theory, but the offers are drying up and the ones I am getting are even worse! My credit rating has climbed but no one wants to roll over my cards for less than 19.9% which is outrageous! I'm just targeting one card at a time and sending extra to them each month and trying to get rid of them. I've gotten rid of a lot of debt that way but the ones I do have are unbelievable! Even with a good payment record!
convenience comes with a price...I've never carried a balance on CCs
| 59 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:24:57pm |
re: #37 keloyd
Volker/Obama's novel solution to 'too big to fail' is 'get too big, get split up'. This was a bit upsetting to me, but legally, we have buckets full of precedent for it. Also, those of you with dim memories of econ class, remember that monopolies and oligopolies (sort of half a monopoly, just a few companies running things, so they don't compete very hard, like the auto industry decades ago) are just as much a violation of free enterprise as seekrit Muslim socialism.
Turns out "economies of scale" only sort of works in banking. I wish I could cite, but it's an academic paper in my old MBA class notes - tiny community banks outcompete their big competitors in many niches. It turns out customer service at Mayberry National Bank is more important to John Q. Costomer than whatever BofA can do with its massive resources, at least for certain customers. Also, once the biggest banks get too big they lose efficiency. It's kind of like when Wal Mart or McDonalds grew to the point they had to go overseas. Then, they were competing in unfamiliar cultures and markets, and the locals put up more of a fight, despite the advantages of being enormous.
My long winded point - a cap on bank size, if Volker does it right, together with other anti-speculation rules, will not interfere with well-run banks, imho.
How dare you suggest there is anyone who can stand against the might of Wall Mart! Resistance if futile you will become a greater!
| 60 |
Bagua Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:25:07pm |
re: #32 ralphieboy
That Golden Goose nearly killed itself two years ago. he is trying to keep the cycle from recurring.
That is the propaganda version.
| 61 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:25:34pm |
re: #57 spare o'lake
Since when is everyone entitled to realize the American dream?
Hah! in America dream realizes you!
| 62 |
prairiefire Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:25:54pm |
re: #47 Dragon_Lady
The low interest rate on your savings account is the trade of for low inflation. Overall pricing of consumer's goods and services are low, comparatively speaking.
Anecdotal example, my grocery store is running an ad for sirloin steak at $4.99 a pound. I am going to stock up!
| 63 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:25:55pm |
re: #39 recusancy
We got it close to right. The New Deal laws have been slowly dismantled since the 70's.
So in other words we got it right, then somebody f***ed it up again.
Lets figure out who it was then grab our torches and pitchforks!
| 64 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:26:08pm |
re: #51 shala
Nope, the downding was for being snippy, which was snippy of me. Of course.
Interesting...Newbe stings Mandy out of nowhere..
/
| 65 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:26:31pm |
re: #57 spare o'lake
Since when is everyone entitled to realize the American dream?
since the donks let FF/FM run wild...all the while sending nice gifts here and there to the feds
| 66 |
Bagua Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:26:36pm |
re: #49 jamesfirecat
Yes and what a goose egg its been laying for us lately...
Correct, our modern economy if the largest and most affluent in history. Growth is not straight up, it always has dips.
| 67 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:26:54pm |
re: #56 Floral Giraffe
Except that BofA picked up the troubled assets of Merril Lynch and Countrywide, in the latest meltdown. Size DOES matter.
Who have you been talking too?
| 68 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:27:11pm |
re: #63 jamesfirecat
So in other words we got it right, then somebody f***ed it up again.
Lets figure out who it was then grab our torches and pitchforks!
/well they be rockin in Boston...
| 69 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:27:14pm |
| 70 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:27:20pm |
re: #13 recusancy
Exactly. Trying to govern based on the day to day market is about the dumbest thing anybody could do.
Weather is not climate, the market is not the economy. What else isn't what else?
| 71 |
The Shadow Do Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:27:32pm |
re: #15 Killgore Trout
Me too. The article Charles links to thinks it's going to far to prohibit the banks from trading. I think the bugs can be worked out of that. I do agree that the "Too big to fail" tax probably isn't a great idea. Banks will just pass on the cost to everyone else. I'd rather see the mega banks broken up into smaller ones.
I wonder if it is possible to regulate by size. Can they be busted up like the trusts of T.R.'s day, but then what of foreign banks who would probably be working from advantage or else frozen from the market.
Is it even possible to assert a clear set of enforceable rules without fatally handicapping the players?
It would be nice to see a clean exposition from a third party - actions and consequences in plain ole english.
| 73 |
shala Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:28:43pm |
re: #64 HoosierHoops
Interesting...Newbe stings Mandy out of nowhere..
/
Eh, pretty boring actually. We clashed on an earlier thread and basically don't like each other's styles. I may be new, but I'm opinionated.
| 74 |
Interesting Times Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:28:54pm |
re: #53 jamesfirecat
The question is, is that a result of government policy of the policy of the people running the banks?
I'd say a combination of both - here's a gov policy part:
Canadian banks are more constrained than their international peers in the amount of loans they can extend. The nation's lenders are required to set aside a minimum 7 percent for Tier 1 capital, compared with 6 percent for U.S. commercial banks. At the end of October, Canada's eight publicly traded banks were above the minimum, at 9.6 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.Canada's banking regulator says institutions can lend as much as 20 times their capital base. According to Bank of Canada data released in December, European bank non-risk weighted assets were more than 30 times capital, while that ratio for U.K. banks and U.S. investment banks was above 25.
...and here's bank policy:
Canadian banks are less willing to lend to homebuyers with low credit scores: Subprime loans account for just 5 percent of the total. That compares with 20 percent in the U.S., where independent mortgage brokers and lenders competed with commercial banks to win business by attracting high-risk borrowers.
| 76 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:29:46pm |
re: #51 shala
Nope, the downding was for being snippy, which was snippy of me. Of course.
I can do "snip".
| 78 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:30:08pm |
re: #56 Floral Giraffe
Except that BofA picked up the troubled assets of Merril Lynch and Countrywide, in the latest meltdown. Size DOES matter.
In bed.
| 79 |
Donna Ballard Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:30:16pm |
re: #55 recusancy
You'll get some relief and rights starting in Feb
also: [Link: articles.moneycentral.msn.com...]
Well that will certainly help! But what abut the most recent hike in interest rates! I was current and they still raised my rate to twice what it was!
| 80 |
CapeCoddah Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:30:29pm |
re: #6 Unakite
That's the one thing I can't figure out. All the "us vs. them" and "we'll make them pay," and they just don't get that the costs will eventually get passed on (sh*t flows downhill), and cost more for the consumer in the long run.
That is also my problem with it.
The taxpayers bail out the banks.
The banks are penalized for needing to be bailed out.
The banks pass on the penalties to the taxpayers who had to bail them out, then pay the fine for bailing them out.
Not happy about that.
| 81 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:31:01pm |
re: #57 spare o'lake
Since when is everyone entitled to realize the American dream?
They're entitled to pursue it but, equality of outcome is not guaranteed.
| 82 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:31:22pm |
| 83 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:31:29pm |
re: #74 publicityStunted
Do they have ratings agencies that slap AAA on any crap that comes across their desk the way we do?
| 84 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:32:18pm |
re: #66 Bagua
Correct, our modern economy if the largest and most affluent in history. Growth is not straight up, it always has dips.
Report for your next class, Komrade.
| 85 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:32:18pm |
re: #66 Bagua
Correct, our modern economy if the largest and most affluent in history. Growth is not straight up, it always has dips.
If this right here is what a good economy looks like I'd hate to see a bad one!
Maybe I'm just a flaming hippie communist but I think we need to measure how well the economy is doing less by how much the people at the very top are managing to rake in, and more by how the middle class is doing. In my mind a healthy middle class counts for far more than that Bill Gates recently made so much money he's had to invent a new number to describe it on his tax returns....
| 87 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:33:10pm |
| 88 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:33:33pm |
re: #81 MandyManners
They're entitled to pursue it but, equality of outcome is not guaranteed.
I learned to be satisfied with less...not because of the cost, but because of my fondness for nice fat savings accounts....Kash is King in my world
| 89 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:33:51pm |
re: #79 Dragon_Lady
Well that will certainly help! But what abut the most recent hike in interest rates! I was current and they still raised my rate to twice what it was!
No idea. That's why is was a poor decision to have the law go into effect so far after the signing of the bill. CC companies saw it coming and are trying to squeeze every last drop out of their customers before it happens. I don't know if it will readjust next month, per the new law, or if you're out of luck.
| 90 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:33:58pm |
re: #80 CapeCoddah
That is also my problem with it.
The taxpayers bail out the banks.
The banks are penalized for needing to be bailed out.
The banks pass on the penalties to the taxpayers who had to bail them out, then pay the fine for bailing them out.
Not happy about that.
actually some banks (Wells Fargo for one) didn't need/want bail out it was forced upon them... punishing success is not the American way.
| 91 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:34:28pm |
re: #88 albusteve
I learned to be satisfied with less...not because of the cost, but because of my fondness for nice fat savings accounts...Kash is King in my world
That's a realistic outlook.
| 92 |
wrenchwench Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:34:44pm |
re: #79 Dragon_Lady
Well that will certainly help! But what abut the most recent hike in interest rates! I was current and they still raised my rate to twice what it was!
Call them and ask for a reduction. It never hurts, and sometimes it helps. If they say no, ask when you should call again. Sometimes they'll tell you when the next possibility for a reduction is coming up.
| 93 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:35:06pm |
re: #73 shala
Eh, pretty boring actually. We clashed on an earlier thread and basically don't like each other's styles. I may be new, but I'm opinionated.
Fair enough.Welcome Lizard .So who are you? I never seen you before..What do you believe in? Do we a style issue tonight?
You walk in and snap a towel at Mandy..
Well you got my attention
| 94 |
keloyd Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:35:26pm |
re - 56, Floral Giraffe,
It is true that a few of the behemoths cleaned up after a few of the other behemoths this time, but I also remember some History Channel thing about how J. P. Morgan effectively was the federal reserve in a panic in 1913. Overall, if the whole industry consisted of smaller players, regulated to behave, that industry may not have been able to absorb an imploding Lehman Brothers, but it also would not have needed to.
Also it's easier for the firm but gentle iron fist of Government to control 10,000 small banks than 5 feudal vassal states in corporate form. Citigroup got big enough to almost single-handedly repeal Glass Steagal. You get trouble when the 'regulated' overpowers the 'regulator'.
| 95 |
generalsparky Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:37:14pm |
re: #88 albusteve
I learned to be satisfied with less...not because of the cost, but because of my fondness for nice fat savings accounts...Kash is King in my world
Exactly!
| 96 |
shala Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:37:24pm |
re: #93 HoosierHoops
Fair enough.Welcome Lizard .So who are you? I never seen you before..What do you believe in? Do we a style issue tonight?
You walk in and snap a towel at Mandy..
Well you got my attention
Thanks for the welcome--My bio's not too interesting, I'm just another dirty lib and stubborn Texan. :)
| 97 |
CapeCoddah Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:37:38pm |
re: #45 MandyManners
Why not cut up your credit cards or run a zero balance if you need one for certain things?
Hubby and I have not had a credit card for almost 20 years... we owe nothing but our utilities every month.
We have a debit card if we need to rent a car or something.
If we dont have the cash, we don't need it.
| 98 |
prairiefire Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:38:15pm |
re: #93 HoosierHoops
Hi Hoosier. New lizard rule. If you blog from a dinner party, you have to state what was served and what you ate. OK?
| 99 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:38:57pm |
re: #97 CapeCoddah
Hubby and I have not had a credit card for almost 20 years... we owe nothing but our utilities every month.
We have a debit card if we need to rent a car or something.
If we dont have the cash, we don't need it.
that should be good enough for the gubermint too, no?
| 100 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:39:12pm |
re: #96 shala
Thanks for the welcome--My bio's not too interesting, I'm just another dirty lib and stubborn Texan. :)
Yes there's can't be anything at all interesting about how you grew up to be liberal in Texas!
(Sorry I know I'm being close minded but I couldn't help myself being a liberal from Maryland)
| 101 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:39:16pm |
re: #85 jamesfirecat
If this right here is what a good economy looks like I'd hate to see a bad one!
Maybe I'm just a flaming hippie communist but I think we need to measure how well the economy is doing less by how much the people at the very top are managing to rake in, and more by how the middle class is doing. In my mind a healthy middle class counts for far more than that Bill Gates recently made so much money he's had to invent a new number to describe it on his tax returns...
The rising tide doesn't lift all boats.
also: [Link: www.usatoday.com...]
| 102 |
Gus Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:39:23pm |
re: #3 brookly red
It's like anything else... tax the banks & they pass the costs on to the consumer. Makes the class warfare people even poorer, but they fell much better about it.
And in the end does it even work? The author suggests:
Given these uncertainties, the best response to the too-big-to-fail problem may be to tax size. Large banks, like polluters, create a cost that falls on the rest of society; society should charge for that. And a tax on size is precisely what the president proposed last week -- every bank with assets of more than $50 billion would pay a levy that rises in proportion to the subsidized capital raised in the markets. Unfortunately, Obama muddied his message by couching his proposal as a way to recoup the cost of the bailout. But he was effectively suggesting a too-big-to-fail tax.
For what purpose? The tax money will go into the treasury, that is it will just be swallowed up as revenue. Effectively he's arguing for using the revenue as an insurance policy for any future financial failures. In the end the financial institutions have no compelling incentive other than having to pay a tax. They're also saying, "don't get too big or we'll tax you."
This also means we would be removing real dollars from the GDP because as you know the Federal government acts like a vacuum. The tax revenue won't be tucked away and will simply be set aside for tomorrow's boondoggle.
| 103 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:39:42pm |
re: #92 wrenchwench
Call them and ask for a reduction. It never hurts, and sometimes it helps. If they say no, ask when you should call again. Sometimes they'll tell you when the next possibility for a reduction is coming up.
my Comcast bill went from $90 dollars to $135 just like that...I called and told them to immediate reduce it back down to $90 and they did, right then and there....probably got lucky, but they seem 'flexible'
| 104 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:40:07pm |
re: #98 prairiefire
Hi Hoosier. New lizard rule. If you blog from a dinner party, you have to state what was served and what you ate. OK?
Hah! state eats you!
| 105 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:40:13pm |
re: #97 CapeCoddah
Hubby and I have not had a credit card for almost 20 years... we owe nothing but our utilities every month.
We have a debit card if we need to rent a car or something.
If we dont have the cash, we don't need it.
Sound logic.
| 106 |
jvic Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:40:20pm |
re: #6 Unakite
That's the one thing I can't figure out. All the "us vs. them" and "we'll make them pay," and they just don't get that the costs will eventually get passed on (sh*t flows downhill), and cost more for the consumer in the long run.
Of course they get it.
They think we don't get it.
| 107 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:41:52pm |
re: #102 Gus 802
For what purpose? The tax money will go into the treasury, that is it will just be swallowed up as revenue. Effectively he's arguing for using the revenue as an insurance policy for any future financial failures. In the end the financial institutions have no compelling incentive other than having to pay a tax. They're also saying, "don't get too big or we'll tax you."
This also means we would be removing real dollars from the GDP because as you know the Federal government acts like a vacuum. The tax revenue won't be tucked away and will simply be set aside for tomorrow's boondoggle.
I would gladly tax you Tuesday for a boondoggel today...
| 109 |
generalsparky Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:41:59pm |
re: #97 CapeCoddah
Hubby and I have not had a credit card for almost 20 years... we owe nothing but our utilities every month.
We have a debit card if we need to rent a car or something.
If we dont have the cash, we don't need it.
We have been debt free but our mortgage for about 6 years now. Cash is king in our house too.
| 110 |
avanti Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:42:32pm |
re: #1 Unakite
Based on the stock market, it looks like he might be going too far.
re: #1 Unakite
Based on the stock market, it looks like he might be going too far.
The market dropped after Browns win, and before Obama made his bank plans, but neither were a factor in the market drop. Disappointing jobs numbers and other factors are driving the correction.
| 111 |
CapeCoddah Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:42:47pm |
| 112 |
arethusa Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:43:24pm |
re: #100 jamesfirecat
Yes there's can't be anything at all interesting about how you grew up to be liberal in Texas!
Not if someone grows up liberal in Austin!
/
| 113 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:43:31pm |
re: #110 avanti
The market dropped after Browns win, and before Obama made his bank plans, but neither were a factor in the market drop. Disappointing jobs numbers and other factors are driving the correction.
you said we are recovering...another little speed bump?
| 114 |
Gus Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:43:37pm |
re: #101 recusancy
The rising tide doesn't lift all boats.
also: [Link: www.usatoday.com...]
Here's a blow up of the graph:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
Notice the year that job growth begins to swing down to zero. Almost to the date.
| 115 |
shala Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:44:17pm |
re: #100 jamesfirecat
Yes there's can't be anything at all interesting about how you grew up to be liberal in Texas!
(Sorry I know I'm being close minded but I couldn't help myself being a liberal from Maryland)
The "stubborn" part helps with that, haha. There's more of us than it seems, though I can't blame anyone for thinking otherwise! But really, I grew up conservative and made the switch about 5 years back. Wild times.
| 116 |
CapeCoddah Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:44:23pm |
re: #73 shala
Eh, pretty boring actually. We clashed on an earlier thread and basically don't like each other's styles. I may be new, but I'm opinionated.
Did you downding her post because you disagree with her answer or because you clashed earlier?
| 117 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:44:58pm |
re: #98 prairiefire
Hi Hoosier. New lizard rule. If you blog from a dinner party, you have to state what was served and what you ate. OK?
I'm going to a HUGE Colts party Sunday..Paulie is Cooking so you know the food will be to die for..
At half time I'll jump on his laptop and post an update to the game.
| 118 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:45:31pm |
| 119 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:45:42pm |
re: #115 shala
The "stubborn" part helps with that, haha. There's more of us than it seems, though I can't blame anyone for thinking otherwise! But really, I grew up conservative and made the switch about 5 years back. Wild times.
oohwee!...so you finally found yourself....how nice
| 120 |
CapeCoddah Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:45:46pm |
re: #90 brookly red
Yes, I know that. Penalizing someone for paying a loan back ahead of schedule with interest should not be punished, either.
| 121 |
avanti Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:45:59pm |
re: #103 albusteve
my Comcast bill went from $90 dollars to $135 just like that...I called and told them to immediate reduce it back down to $90 and they did, right then and there...probably got lucky, but they seem 'flexible'
Consumer Reports suggested just that plan. Just tell them you are looking at a competitor if you need to.
| 122 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:46:00pm |
re: #101 recusancy
The rising tide doesn't lift all boats.
also: [Link: www.usatoday.com...]
Yeah, stuff like that is exactly what I'm afraid of and why I hardly consider our current economy a "good" one....
| 123 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:46:39pm |
re: #114 Gus 802
Here's a blow up of the graph:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
Notice the year that job growth begins to swing down to zero. Almost to the date.
About Jan 2008. and then steeper drop in Oct. 08.
| 124 |
Gus Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:47:10pm |
| 125 |
shala Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:47:33pm |
re: #116 CapeCoddah
Did you downding her post because you disagree with her answer or because you clashed earlier?
Didn't like the tone, really. The clash earlier probably didn't help with that. Feel kinda bad now for downdinging her, it seems fiesty is just her way. I don't want to become someone who downdings a person on sight.
| 126 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:47:34pm |
| 127 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:47:53pm |
| 129 |
avanti Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:48:18pm |
re: #113 albusteve
you said we are recovering...another little speed bump?
We are, but slowly. Even with the correction, the market is way up, and jobless claims are way down. Most annalists predicted a correction after over a 60% DOW gain, now it's bargain hurting time before it starts back up.
| 130 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:48:21pm |
re: #122 jamesfirecat
Yeah, stuff like that is exactly what I'm afraid of and why I hardly consider our current economy a "good" one...
actually if our county was a person a judge would have cut up our plastic long ago...
| 131 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:48:25pm |
re: #114 Gus 802
Here's a blow up of the graph:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
Notice the year that job growth begins to swing down to zero. Almost to the date.
Looks like it hits it at 2003 but I fail to see why that's important, or maybe my head just isn't on straight at the moment...
| 132 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:48:52pm |
re: #121 avanti
Consumer Reports suggested just that plan. Just tell them you are looking at a competitor if you need to.
Damn it man!
/I love your son's music..He is the real deal dude...
| 133 |
spare o'lake Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:48:54pm |
Without AIG's irrational and fraudulent underwriting of the risks of the subprime mortgage-backed securities, the worthless shit could not have been successfully sold and resold in the first place.
Why not simply forbid Banks from insuring their lending risks?
| 134 |
arethusa Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:49:02pm |
re: #125 shala
Didn't like the tone, really. The clash earlier probably didn't help with that. Feel kinda bad now for downdinging her, it seems fiesty is just her way. I don't want to become someone who downdings a person on sight.
You can upding to cancel out a downding, if you like.
| 135 |
Gus Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:49:10pm |
re: #127 recusancy
The 9 in the graph stands for 2008.
Oh, you're right.
Why tie me to a pig and roll me in the mud. /
| 136 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:49:59pm |
re: #125 shala
Didn't like the tone, really. The clash earlier probably didn't help with that. Feel kinda bad now for downdinging her, it seems fiesty is just her way. I don't want to become someone who downdings a person on sight.
feel free do downding me as often as possible...I'm accommodating like that for those that have that urge
| 137 |
shala Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:50:04pm |
re: #134 arethusa
You can upding to cancel out a downding, if you like.
I didn't realize, thank you. Done.
| 138 |
avanti Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:50:42pm |
re: #132 HoosierHoops
Damn it man!
/I love your son's music..He is the real deal dude...
From your ears to a recording producers.
| 139 |
prairiefire Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:51:00pm |
re: #117 HoosierHoops
Actually, for myself, I'm more interested in the food. ; )
I'm sure there are other lizards interested in the game. It seems we have more international guy lizards.
| 140 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:51:11pm |
re: #129 avanti
We are, but slowly. Even with the correction, the market is way up, and jobless claims are way down. Most annalists predicted a correction after over a 60% DOW gain, now it's bargain hurting time before it starts back up.
you are a market head, not paying attention...claims are down but unemployment isn't
| 141 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:51:29pm |
re: #129 avanti
We are, but slowly. Even with the correction, the market is way up, and jobless claims are way down. Most annalists predicted a correction after over a 60% DOW gain, now it's bargain hurting time before it starts back up.
actually jobless claims are way up...
| 142 |
CapeCoddah Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:51:33pm |
re: #118 MandyManners
I was afraid that was gonna be the answer. How disappointing.
| 143 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:53:01pm |
re: #125 shala
Didn't like the tone, really. The clash earlier probably didn't help with that. Feel kinda bad now for downdinging her, it seems fiesty is just her way. I don't want to become someone who downdings a person on sight.
There's a folk myth that, when you go to prison, you should just punch out the meanest mutha in the yard on your first day.....
| 144 |
recusancy Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:53:07pm |
re: #135 Gus 802
Oh, you're right.
Why tie me to a pig and roll me in the mud. /
So you were trying to make a point that it started on Obama's swearing in?
| 145 |
CapeCoddah Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:53:31pm |
re: #125 shala
That is an unfortunate character flaw, to downding someone because you had a difference of opinion earlier. Unfortunate indeed.
| 146 |
Gus Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:53:31pm |
re: #144 recusancy
So you were trying to make a point that it started on Obama's swearing in?
Yes. =)
| 147 |
prairiefire Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:53:50pm |
The economy can come back without the jobs. It's the People who complain.
| 148 |
MandyManners Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:54:25pm |
re: #142 CapeCoddah
I was afraid that was gonna be the answer. How disappointing.
I don't hate KORPORASHUNS so I'm teh debil.
| 149 |
CapeCoddah Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:54:50pm |
re: #125 shala
Funny, if there is something I do not wish to be, I don't act that way then make excuses..
| 150 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:54:53pm |
re: #147 prairiefire
The economy can come back without the jobs. It's the People who complain.
hey you..shut up!...I got these numbers here, and if I crunch 'em juuust right...
| 151 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:56:34pm |
re: #147 prairiefire
The economy can come back without the jobs. It's the People who complain.
20 million unemployed... 20 million.
| 152 |
Interesting Times Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:56:47pm |
re: #147 prairiefire
The economy can come back without the jobs. It's the People who complain.
On that note, I really hate the Orwellian term "Jobless Recovery". It makes about as much sense as "foodless dinner".
| 153 |
shala Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:57:19pm |
re: #145 CapeCoddah
That is an unfortunate character flaw, to downding someone because you had a difference of opinion earlier. Unfortunate indeed.
I am extremely sad to disappoint you. It has just ruined my day. What in the world I am going to do now. /
This sure is lot of hubbub over one little ding... be careful, you all are going to make me feel special.
| 154 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:58:11pm |
re: #139 prairiefire
Actually, for myself, I'm more interested in the food. ; )
I'm sure there are other lizards interested in the game. It seems we have more international guy lizards.
Paulie may be the greatest football cook of all time..He gets up early on Sunday Morning and begins cooking..And I mean he is the best..I proposed doing a youtube video weekly during football season...I would call it ' Tailgate Today '. F*ck NBC.
| 155 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:58:24pm |
| 157 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:59:04pm |
re: #153 shala
I am extremely sad to disappoint you. It has just ruined my day. What in the world I am going to do now. /
This sure is lot of hubbub over one little ding... be careful, you all are going to make me feel special.
you already are, but for the wrong reason....nice going
| 158 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jan 22, 2010 4:59:29pm |
re: #153 shala
I am extremely sad to disappoint you. It has just ruined my day. What in the world I am going to do now. /
This sure is lot of hubbub over one little ding... be careful, you all are going to make me feel special.
Wow.
I didn't notice CapeCoddah said anything about you disappointing her.
How did you come to assume that?
| 159 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:00:42pm |
re: #155 albusteve
but not Avanti!...recovery!
yes and the market is up 60% to around 10,000... now we only need for it to go up another 3,000 or so just to be pre- Obama.
| 160 |
albusteve Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:01:24pm |
re: #159 brookly red
yes and the market is up 60% to around 10,000... now we only need for it to go up another 3,000 or so just to be pre- Obama.
nuance
| 161 |
shala Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:02:40pm |
| 162 |
Donna Ballard Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:02:41pm |
re: #62 prairiefire
The low interest rate on your savings account is the trade of for low inflation. Overall pricing of consumer's goods and services are low, comparatively speaking.
Anecdotal example, my grocery store is running an ad for sirloin steak at $4.99 a pound. I am going to stock up!
Sweetie i don't know where you're from but a gallon of milk is going for, get this, $2.59! Just a few months ago it was $1.89. I have noticed my local store has said that their lowering 1000's of prices through out the store yet when I go shopping I see that they have raised prices on things I use everyday and lowered prices on things I don't need but maybe once every couple of months. Thats a real bait and switch tactic that I find contemptible! I gotta go now, RWC's home and wants to log in. Type to you later!
| 164 |
brookly red Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:04:02pm |
re: #163 albusteve
these year will be regarded as PBO and ABO
I think it will level off one we adopt the "bread standard"...
| 165 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:04:08pm |
re: #162 Dragon_Lady
See my #126 for some zero % transfer cards...
| 166 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:04:59pm |
| 167 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:08:38pm |
re: #166 HoosierHoops
Is it still storming in LA?
Farging rain. Yes. Supposed to clear for the weekend, then the rest of our annual rainfall, next week.
How's your weather? Snow?
| 168 |
prairiefire Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:09:12pm |
What was the US unemployment rate for December, 2008?
| 169 |
Digital Display Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:09:48pm |
re: #167 Floral Giraffe
Farging rain. Yes. Supposed to clear for the weekend, then the rest of our annual rainfall, next week.
How's your weather? Snow?
Monday evening they say more snow is coming...Be well
| 170 |
Gus Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:10:17pm |
re: #168 prairiefire
What was the US unemployment rate for December, 2008?
7.4%
[Link: data.bls.gov...]
| 172 |
Gus Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:11:10pm |
| 173 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:11:19pm |
re: #168 prairiefire
What was the US unemployment rate for December, 2008?
7.2% according to this link
[Link: dunner99.blogspot.com...]
| 174 |
avanti Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:11:47pm |
re: #159 brookly red
yes and the market is up 60% to around 10,000... now we only need for it to go up another 3,000 or so just to be pre- Obama.
Still, it's up from the 8000 range at the end of GW's term, and way up from the 6000 levels in March.
| 175 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:13:22pm |
re: #147 prairiefire
The economy can come back without the jobs. It's the People who complain.
Three kinds of lies, lies, damn lies, and statistics...
| 176 |
Gus Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:15:22pm |
re: #171 prairiefire
Thanks.
Here's a graph from 1948 for Decmeber only.
Image: LNS14000000_149685_1264209193786.gif
1982 was the highest.
1982 10.8
1983 8.3
1984 7.3
1985 7.0
1986 6.6
1987 5.7
1988 5.3
1989 5.4
1990 6.3
1991 7.3
1992 7.4
1993 6.5
1994 5.5
1995 5.6
1996 5.4
1997 4.7
1998 4.4
1999 4.0
2000 3.9
2001 5.7
2002 6.0
2003 5.7
2004 5.4
2005 4.9
2006 4.4
2007 5.0
2008 7.4
2009 10.0
| 177 |
prairiefire Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:18:27pm |
re: #176 Gus 802
Well, if we are looking at it in a purely presidential manner, Democrats will be looking for a Regan like recovery?
| 178 |
Gus Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:19:56pm |
re: #177 prairiefire
Well, if we are looking at it in a purely presidential manner, Democrats will be looking for a Regan like recovery?
Yeah, you can say Reagan might be a good model. Also Clinton.
| 179 |
baier Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:42:13pm |
Bank employees should just join the UAW and the Democrats will leave them alone.
| 180 |
Kewalo Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:47:47pm |
[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]
As far as I'm concerned this says a lot.
| 181 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Jan 22, 2010 5:57:25pm |
re: #152 publicityStunted
When Wall street and the Banks are up, up, up and the manufacturing and or jobs situation worsens, its not Orwellian, its a fair description. Its about who is recovering or who is not.
| 182 |
Vambo Fri, Jan 22, 2010 7:24:26pm |
While some of you are crying over billionaires not getting their million-dollar bonuses, here's what's happening in the real world:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
| 183 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sat, Jan 23, 2010 3:01:48am |
re: #60 Bagua
That is the propaganda version.
Then it's the propaganda that Bush gave us in 2008 when he got up to address us on the necessity of the bank bailout. If we had left it to the Free market to regulate itself, we would have a completley collapsed economy.
| 184 |
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