Polish Bishop: Jews Use Holocaust As Propaganda

Religion • Views: 3,810

Polish Catholic bishop Tadeusz Pieronek, a close friend of former pope John Paul II, is in the Jerusalem Post today for his statements about the Holocaust: Pieronek: Jews use tragedy of Holocaust as propaganda.

The Holocaust only receives media coverage because of affluent Jews’ financial backing, military might and lobbying fronts, presenting a skewed version of events to the world, a high-ranking Polish bishop told a Catholic news portal on Monday.

Polish bishop and professor Tadeusz Pieronek told the Web site Pontifex.roma that while the Holocaust was not exclusively Jewish, Jews had monopolized it in lieu of encouraging “serious historical debate, free from prejudice and victimization.”

Pieronek alleged that Jews today use the Holocaust as “a weapon of propaganda, used to obtain benefits which are often unjustified,” citing as an example the unconditional support for Israel by the US. “This promotes a certain arrogance that I find unbearable,” he said, explaining that Israel was using its position of power and exploiting historical tragedies to treat the Palestinians “like animals.”

The bishop stated that American support for the Jews had not always been so readily given. “What did the Jewish-American and allied forces do in [World War II] to avoid these tragedies? Little or nothing,” he said.

Pieronek stressed that Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians did not compare to “the shame of the concentration camps and the aberrations of Nazism,” but was still a cause for concern ahead of International Holocaust Remembrance Day, which occurs on January 27.

“The Holocaust as such is a Jewish invention … a day of remembrance must also be set for the many victims of Communism, persecuted Catholics and Christians and so on,” he told the Web site. Tragedy, he stressed, must not be turned into propaganda.

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249 comments
1 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:11:16pm

Tadeusz Pieronek, bite my shiny, metal ass.

2 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:12:30pm

“The Holocaust as such is a Jewish invention … a day of remembrance must also be set for the many victims of Communism, persecuted Catholics and Christians and so on,” he told the Web site. Tragedy, he stressed, must not be turned into propaganda.

Gee, and all tis time I thought it was an invention of the Third Reich.

3 windsagio  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:12:52pm

Lol, I was trying to think of a response, but Varek pretty much hit it.

Its so freakin' insane, it leaves one speechless.

4 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:12:57pm

Tadeusz Pieronek is a soulless panderer.

5 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:13:21pm

re: #2 austin_blue

“The Holocaust as such is a Jewish invention … a day of remembrance must also be set for the many victims of Communism, persecuted Catholics and Christians and so on,” he told the Web site. Tragedy, he stressed, must not be turned into propaganda.

Gee, and all tis time I thought it was an invention of the Third Reich.

Pfff. "this"

PIMF

6 windsagio  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:14:16pm

re: #4 rwdflynavy

But who's he pandering to?

7 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:14:32pm

A crazy Catholic Bishop...
What were the odds?

8 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:14:48pm

re: #6 windsagio

But who's he pandering to?

Duh! Poles!!
//

9 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:15:20pm

re: #7 HoosierHoops

A crazy Catholic Bishop...
What were the odds?

'Bout a hundred percent, in this case.

10 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:17:42pm

Pieronek alleged that Jews today use the Holocaust as “a weapon of propaganda, used to obtain benefits which are often unjustified,”

Like what, continued survival!!!

11 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:17:56pm

Just setting the table for the canonization of Pope Pius XII. A team player he is.

12 jaunte  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:18:51pm

Pieronek:
"The anti-Semitic history of Poland is an invention," he said. "A joke ... offensive to our people."
ADL:
"The consolidation of democracy in Poland has been accompanied by the recognition of many leading Poles that their country needs to honestly confront its long and painful history of anti-Semitism. The recent commemoration of the 1946 Kielce pogrom is another sign of Poland's commitment to this process."
[Link: www.adl.org...]

13 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:18:59pm

I am not surprised. When I see my own neighbors and countrymen "innocently" questioning our support for Israel on purely intellectual, pragmatic grounds... I have no doubt in my mind the beast is back.

14 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:19:04pm

re: #9 austin_blue

'Bout a hundred percent, in this case.

The Holocaust as such is a Jewish invention …

You can't buy more insanity.. Where the heck is the Pope on this? On hold with Mel Gibson?

15 ryannon  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:19:19pm

By the way, and speaking of Poland, has anyone here seen Jacque Lanzmann's epic documentary Shoah?

16 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:21:05pm

re: #14 HoosierHoops

The Holocaust as such is a Jewish invention …

You can't buy more insanity.. Where the heck is the Pope on this? On hold with Mel Gibson?

Secretly dressing up in his Hitler Youth uniform?

Just sayin'....

17 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:21:52pm

a Pole...good grief...here we go again

18 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:23:23pm

re: #13 brookly red

I am not surprised. When I see my own neighbors and countrymen "innocently" questioning our support for Israel on purely intellectual, pragmatic grounds... I have no doubt in my mind the beast is back.

and in response, we were mean and they didn't want to discuss it further...a very bad sign

19 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:23:56pm

I've been there, to Warsaw, around Poland, talked to the "man/woman in the street" Pole. Had a student of Polish history tour me around, had local Jewish folks bring me to archives and such, places that tourists don't get to examine... all for research on one of my plays.

This priest is not the norm. I spoke to Catholic Poles, observing Jews, assimilated Jews, all sorts of people. I had the a reporter with the New Warsaw Express with me on many meetings, translating for me when needed.

Yes, there is and was anti-semitism in Poland, but in general, most of the Poles I met felt a kindred spirit with the Jews, after all, it was their country that became ground zero for the final solution.

This priest is evil.

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:23:59pm

The Jews broke the rules. For centuries, it was just the same. If you were targeted for genocide you were supposed to shut the f*** up and die. Not only did we break the rules, but we inspired other people. We will never be forgiven for this in some circles.

Not that we give a damn.

21 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:24:03pm

I'll just leave this here:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

22 windsagio  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:24:19pm

re: #13 brookly red

re: #18 albusteve

lol, whose baiting now?

23 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:24:29pm

re: #16 austin_blue

Secretly dressing up in his Hitler Youth uniform?

Just sayin'...

I, for one, will give him a pass on that. This one, if the silence is sustained, not so much.

24 ryannon  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:24:57pm

re: #15 ryannon

Well, that was a bit dry. This excerpt is vastly more...uh...entertaining It even has singing in it...

25 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:25:18pm

re: #18 albusteve

and in response, we were mean and they didn't want to discuss it further...a very bad sign

same as it ever was...

26 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:25:24pm

re: #22 windsagio

re: #18 albusteve

lol, whose baiting now?

fuck off...you failed on your own merits

27 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:26:28pm

re: #22 windsagio

re: #18 albusteve

lol, whose baiting now?

where you breathe, k?

28 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:27:27pm

re: #13 brookly red

I am not surprised. When I see my own neighbors and countrymen "innocently" questioning our support for Israel on purely intellectual, pragmatic grounds... I have no doubt in my mind the beast is back.

and they know who they are...

29 windsagio  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:27:50pm

re: #27 brookly red

I hate to look even more dumb than normal, and I hate to ruin a joke, but I have no idea what that one means.

I think its mercury poisoning.

30 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:30:11pm

Dinner!

Later, lizards.

Sweet dreams.

31 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:30:42pm

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

The Jews broke the rules. For centuries, it was just the same. If you were targeted for genocide you were supposed to shut the f*** up and die. Not only did we break the rules, but we inspired other people. We will never be forgiven for this in some circles.

Not that we give a damn.

Some years ago I saw some PBS show about the death camps..All rare B&W movie reels...I'll never forget the look in the eyes...
We owe it to those souls to stand with them for all time...

32 jaunte  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:31:39pm

Some Polish history for the bishop:

The pogrom in Kielce was a turning point in the post-war history of Jews in Poland. After the pogrom, the majority of the Jews remaining in Poland decided to leave. Until July 1946, some groups of Jews had wanted to stay in Poland in spite of dominant influence exerted by Zionism. Before the pogrom, an average of one thousand Jews crossed the Polish border illegally each month. In July, August, and September 1946, over sixty thousand Jews left Poland.
...
Despite the large militia and army presence in the town of Kielce, Jews had been murdered there in cold blood, in public, and for a period of more than five hours. The news that the militia and the army had taken part in the pogrom spread as well. From July 1945 until June 1946, about fifty thousand Jews passed the Polish border illegally. In July 1946, almost twenty thousand decided to leave Poland. In August 1946 the number increased to thirty thousand. In September 1946, twelve thousand Jews left Poland.
[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]
33 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:32:07pm

re: #31 HoosierHoops

Just so Hoops. That and for the sake of our own sense of humanity.

34 mj  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:32:34pm
More global anti-Semitic incidents reported in 2009 than any year since WWII

Nearly half of Western European believe that Jews exploit the persecution of their past as a method of extorting money, according to an annual Jewish Agency report released on Sunday.

A joint report on anti-Semitism conducted by the Agency and the Ministry of Diaspora Affairs found that 42 percent of those polled by the University of Bielefeld in Germany agreed that "Jews exploit the past to extort money."

The countries in which the highest percentage of the population agreed with that statement were Poland and Spain.

According to the Jewish Agency, there were more anti-Semitic incidents in 2009 than in any year since the Second World War....

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

35 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:32:44pm

Can you say, "defrock?"

I could say defrock.

Hey Benedict!

36 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:33:30pm

re: #31 HoosierHoops

Some years ago I saw some PBS show about the death camps..All rare B&W movie reels...I'll never forget the look in the eyes...
We owe it to those souls to stand with them for all time...

Well said.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:34:25pm

BTW, all, I have finally gotten together the technological gumption to have a personal avatar. Please admire.

38 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:34:43pm

re: #33 The Shadow Do

Just so Hoops. That and for the sake of our own sense of humanity.

some say our aid is 'unqualified' and that aid should be used to 'leverage' Israel...to what end was never explained

39 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:35:00pm

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, all, I have finally gotten together the technological gumption to have a personal avatar. Please admire.

Beautiful

40 windsagio  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:35:15pm

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

Is that a random baby, or is the meaning something specific?

41 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:35:53pm

re: #38 albusteve

some say our aid is 'unqualified' and that aid should be used to 'leverage' Israel...to what end was never explained

Maybe to get Israel to make more concessions. That's fairly standard. If they would only cease to exist already!!!!
//really needed?

42 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:36:19pm

re: #38 albusteve

some say our aid is 'unqualified' and that aid should be used to 'leverage' Israel...to what end was never explained

I'm pretty sure the use of leverage is to just make it all go away. No one harmed of course. It's all just so troublesome to the unicorn set.

43 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:36:25pm

re: #31 HoosierHoops

Some years ago I saw some PBS show about the death camps..All rare B&W movie reels...I'll never forget the look in the eyes...
We owe it to those souls to stand with them for all time...

I've been to Treblinka, which was one of the early camps that were killing people so fast, they stopped burying them and just started to mass cremate them over large pits with multiple layers of iron grates. And then they spread the ashes in the field.

I was there in Jan., winter, snow on the ground, me and a little brown rabbit which followed me all around the site, I was the only visitor that morning, the rabbit and me, the guard in the little hut at the entrance, snowing... and walking on the ashes of a million people.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:37:41pm

re: #40 windsagio

Is that a random baby, or is the meaning something specific?

Well, I was tempted to tell everyone that after our recent conversations I had decided to speed up the reproduction process, but in real life, her name is Israela Georges, and she was born on the 17th of this months in an IDF field hospital on Haiti. And she is just as cute as a button.

45 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:37:57pm

Anyone wanting to get even an inkling what the Jews have suffered through need to visit the Holocaust museum. It is a truly scary trip into the depths of human depravity.

46 windsagio  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:38:26pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

she certainly is that :)

47 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:38:28pm

re: #43 Walter L. Newton

that will make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

48 ryannon  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:38:50pm

re: #38 albusteve

some say our aid is 'unqualified' and that aid should be used to 'leverage' Israel...to what end was never explained

Leverage them into being more cooperative and less aggressive with their neighbors so that we can finally enjoy a lasting peace in the Middle East?

49 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:39:14pm

re: #42 The Shadow Do

I'm pretty sure the use of leverage is to just make it all go away. No one harmed of course. It's all just so troublesome to the unicorn set.

the Thorn of Israel...an irritation...got it

50 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:40:17pm

re: #47 The Shadow Do

that will make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

Yep... I can't give you what I felt that morning, and you wouldn't want it if I could... but it's a feeling that I need to have... until I die.

51 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:41:40pm

re: #49 albusteve

the Thorn of Israel...an irritation...got it

I don't think it is any more complicated than that. It just is. Sad beyond belief.

52 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:41:47pm

re: #48 ryannon

Leverage them into being more cooperative and less aggressive with their neighbors so that we can finally enjoy a lasting peace in the Middle East?

like not building houses on the west bank...good one BO, the extent of his diplomacy concerning Israel...spit

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:42:56pm

Some more good photos from StandWithUs, from Haiti. So much horror coming out, it was nice to see some good being done.

54 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:43:30pm

re: #48 ryannon

Leverage them into being more cooperative and less aggressive with their neighbors so that we can finally enjoy a lasting peace in the Middle East?

the word naive comes to mind.

55 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:43:37pm

re: #50 Walter L. Newton

Yep... I can't give you what I felt that morning, and you wouldn't want it if I could... but it's a feeling that I need to have... until I die.

Thanks Walter, it touches the soul. It is unexpresable madness. Yet there is denial. Those who would strip the living breathing humanity from so many lost ones.

56 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:44:02pm

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, all, I have finally gotten together the technological gumption to have a personal avatar. Please admire.

To quote Keats, a thing of beauty is a joy forever.

57 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:44:07pm

re: #54 brookly red

the word naive comes to mind.

I think it's more sinister than that.

58 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:44:56pm

re: #54 brookly red

the word naive comes to mind.

and ignorant...whichever, there is no excuse for it

59 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:45:04pm

re: #57 Varek Raith

I think it's more sinister than that.

I give the benefit of doubt based on past experience.

60 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:45:35pm

re: #52 albusteve

like not building houses on the west bank...good one BO, the extent of his diplomacy concerning Israel...spit

It's all about a desired policy victory. That is just wrong. He represents me as an American, but unfairly so when he starts with this shit.

61 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:45:37pm

BTW, they had a ceremony to return that abhorent sign at Auschwitz the other day.

62 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:46:12pm

re: #55 The Shadow Do

Thanks Walter, it touches the soul. It is unexpresable madness. Yet there is denial. Those who would strip the living breathing humanity from so many lost ones.

yes indeed, thanks for expressing that Walter...I'm kinda at a loss for words here

63 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:47:31pm

What are Mearsheimer and Walt up to nowadays?

64 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:47:52pm

re: #52 albusteve

like not building houses on the west bank...good one BO, the extent of his diplomacy concerning Israel...spit

They all do it, to be utterly fair. Name that speaker!

"Israel has got responsibilities. Israel must deal with the settlements. Israel must make sure there is a continuous territory that the Palestinians can call home."

No administration has had any new ideas as far back as I can remember, and they all fall back to the same tried-and-failed techniques for creating peace in the Levant.

65 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:48:19pm

re: #60 The Shadow Do

It's all about a desired policy victory. That is just wrong. He represents me as an American, but unfairly so when he starts with this shit.

he represents himself...that's what it is and because it is, I can't stand the guy

66 Solomon2  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:49:03pm

Charles, why did you not offer us your opinion of the Bishop's comments?

67 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:49:04pm

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

They all do it, to be utterly fair. Name that speaker!

"Israel has got responsibilities. Israel must deal with the settlements. Israel must make sure there is a continuous territory that the Palestinians can call home."

No administration has had any new ideas as far back as I can remember, and they all fall back to the same tried-and-failed techniques for creating peace in the Levant.

you can not create peace.

68 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:49:44pm

re: #66 Solomon2

? Cause it should be self evident?

69 Cineaste  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:50:07pm

re: #66 Solomon2

Charles, why did you not offer us your opinion of the Bishop's comments?

I don't have a whole lot of questions about what Charles thinks on this - do you?

70 ryannon  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:50:23pm

re: #66 Solomon2

Charles, why did you not offer us your opinion of the Bishop's comments?

Those comments are beneath all commentary.

71 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:50:44pm

re: #66 Solomon2

Charles, why did you not offer us your opinion of the Bishop's comments?

I'm going out on a limb. I'm betting Charles isn't a fan of the "good" Bishop.

72 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:51:08pm

re: #66 Solomon2

Charles, why did you not offer us your opinion of the Bishop's comments?

He doesn't need to. I've been following this blog for only about a year and I know exactly what his opinion is on this.

73 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:51:15pm

re: #48 ryannon

Leverage them into being more cooperative and less aggressive with their neighbors so that we can finally enjoy a lasting peace in the Middle East?

Yeah, Lord knows, they've attacked their neighbors.
/

74 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:52:09pm

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

They all do it, to be utterly fair. Name that speaker!

"Israel has got responsibilities. Israel must deal with the settlements. Israel must make sure there is a continuous territory that the Palestinians can call home."

No administration has had any new ideas as far back as I can remember, and they all fall back to the same tried-and-failed techniques for creating peace in the Levant.

it will brew until there is another Holocaust...and this time the outcome will be different..and if certain countries outside the ME stand against Israel or threaten them, then it's a free for all...

75 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:52:33pm

re: #48 ryannon

Leverage them into being more cooperative and less aggressive with their neighbors so that we can finally enjoy a lasting peace in the Middle East?

Yeah, maybe if Israel stopped its embargo on Arab goods, stopped funding Jewish terror groups in Arab lands......

76 ryannon  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:53:00pm

re: #73 Guanxi88

Yeah, Lord knows, they've attacked their neighbors.
/

I'm glad you got it. Reading other comments upthread, I was worried.

77 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:53:05pm

re: #66 Solomon2

Charles, why did you not offer us your opinion of the Bishop's comments?

And you have no idea from past comments and postings by Charles as to where he would stand on this topic?

78 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:53:21pm

re: #66 Solomon2

Charles, why did you not offer us your opinion of the Bishop's comments?

You've been around since 10/25/04. Surely you know what it is.

79 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:53:30pm

re: #67 brookly red

you can not create peace.

you can only force it upon the aggressors....duh!

80 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:53:44pm

re: #66 Solomon2

really? i mean...really? no, but...really?

81 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:55:15pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

And you have no idea from past comments and postings by Charles as to where he would stand on this topic?

apparently lurking is an art form that few can grasp...

82 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:55:47pm

re: #66 Solomon2

Charles, why did you not offer us your opinion of the Bishop's comments?

Solomon2.. Tell us what you think...Come on Solomon...Smartest man in the world per his nic.. Tell us what you think...Don't worry about Charles...
What have you got?

83 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:56:44pm

re: #82 HoosierHoops

Solomon2.. Tell us what you think...Come on Solomon...Smartest man in the world per his nic.. Tell us what you think...Don't worry about Charles...
What have you got?

SoloMANNNNN!...speak!

84 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:56:55pm

re: #82 HoosierHoops

Throwdown!

86 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:58:01pm

re: #84 The Shadow Do

Throwdown!

I dunno, I lurked for a couple of years...seemed like I could never register back then...I don't think it hurt me

87 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:58:21pm

re: #75 Guanxi88

Yeah, maybe if Israel stopped its embargo on Arab goods, stopped funding Jewish terror groups in Arab lands...

I find it so freaking hard to believe that after the freakin ROP has attacked and murdered people in just about every country on earth that we are even having this conversation.

88 Cineaste  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:59:23pm

This Bishop is sadly uneducated. He knows nothing about the roots of Hertzl's zionism. About the Dreyfus affair, the pogroms, the rise of Leuger, the British expulsion of the Jews, the Inquisition and a myriad of other transgressions made by countries against their Jewish citizens. Hertzl came to believe that until the Jews had a land of their own that they would perpetually be in a cycle of being embraced and then attacked. He wrote:

The Jewish question persists wherever Jews live in appreciable numbers. Wherever it does not exist, it is brought in together with Jewish immigrants. We are naturally drawn into those places where we are not persecuted, and our appearance there gives rise to persecution. This is the case, and will inevitably be so, everywhere, even in highly civilised countries—see, for instance, France—so long as the Jewish question is not solved on the political level. The unfortunate Jews are now carrying the seeds of anti-Semitism into England; they have already introduced it into America.

In other words, wherever Jews are, anti-semitism will appear. To claim that Jews are using "victimization" when 2/3rds of the entire Jewish population in Europe was wiped out in my parents lifetime is revolting and ignorant.

THIS is exactly why Pius II should not be sainted.

89 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 5:59:31pm

re: #87 brookly red

I find it so freaking hard to believe that after the freakin ROP has attacked and murdered people in just about every country on earth that we are even having this conversation.

Because Jew-hating bastards still stalk the earth.

90 jaunte  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:00:31pm

re: #88 Cineaste

This Bishop is sadly uneducated... deliberately lying.

91 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:00:34pm

re: #88 Cineaste

This Bishop is sadly uneducated. He knows nothing about the roots of Hertzl's zionism. About the Dreyfus affair, the pogroms, the rise of Leuger, the British expulsion of the Jews, the Inquisition and a myriad of other transgressions made by countries against their Jewish citizens. Hertzl came to believe that until the Jews had a land of their own that they would perpetually be in a cycle of being embraced and then attacked. He wrote:

In other words, wherever Jews are, anti-semitism will appear. To claim that Jews are using "victimization" when 2/3rds of the entire Jewish population in Europe was wiped out in my parents lifetime is revolting and ignorant.

THIS is exactly why Pius II should not be sainted.

There is a chance he will be?

92 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:00:45pm

re: #87 brookly red

I find it so freaking hard to believe that after the freakin ROP has attacked and murdered people in just about every country on earth that we are even having this conversation.

maybe if we gave them unqualified aid and leveraged them into an agreement of some sort we could rid them of 'their' problem

93 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:00:52pm

re: #86 albusteve

I dunno, I lurked for a couple of years...seemed like I could never register back then...I don't think it hurt me

Solomon needs to bring it. Hoops callin' 'im out. Good.

94 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:01:27pm

re: #90 jaunte

This Bishop is sadly uneducated... deliberately lying.

you said it...exactly

95 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:01:45pm

re: #84 The Shadow Do

Throwdown!

Hey Bro! Yep..It's a throwdown..And I won't even use 4 letter words..
*wink*

96 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:01:50pm

Are Mearsheimer and Walt considered Progs?

97 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:02:15pm

re: #92 albusteve

maybe if we gave them unqualified aid and leveraged them into an agreement of some sort we could rid them of 'their' problem

not what I had in mind...

98 FightingBack  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:02:54pm

re: #32 jaunte

When my Mother returned to her home (Lodz) in 1946, her Polish neighbors, having appropriated her property, were unhappy to see her alive, and threatened to kill her. In her second daring escape (the first being from the Lodz Ghetto in 1942), she fled Poland illegally, hidden under a mail truck.
She is 98. She has a saying about Poles, Anti-Semitism and Mother's milk, but I won't quote it here.

99 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:03:03pm

re: #88 Cineaste

Pope Pius, sainted for his reluctance to stand up...for the greater good? Does not look too saintly from where I sit. Don't Saints like suffer for their faith and such?

100 Liberally Conservative  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:03:04pm

That was not a very good or a very smart thing to say, especially as a bishop of the Catholic Church.

If he had said "6 million Jews died in the Holocaust, an unprecedented, soulless and evil event in human history. However, 6 million Poles, Russians, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally handicapped, and others also died for the same wretched and unjustified reasons, and we should make sure that their deaths are also not forgotten", then he would have gotten across what I think is one of the points he was trying to make. Instead, he goes on an anti-Semitic rant. Brilliant.

101 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:03:11pm

re: #89 MandyManners

Because Jew-hating bastards still stalk the earth.

f' it I didn't vote for any of them...

102 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:03:12pm

re: #97 brookly red

not what I had in mind...

it's something I can post tho...you can't post you ideas

103 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:05:02pm

re: #100 Liberally Conservative

Don't 'spose he could be an antisemite or somesuch, maybe?

104 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:05:14pm

re: #102 albusteve

it's something I can post tho...you can't post you ideas

of course I can... who could possibly fault me for supporting higher "education"?

105 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:05:21pm

re: #101 brookly red

f' it I didn't vote for any of them...

What did Samantha Powers say about occupying Israel?

106 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:06:39pm

re: #105 MandyManners

What did Samantha Powers say about occupying Israel?

I missed that one.

107 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:06:41pm

re: #100 Liberally Conservative

That was not a very good or a very smart thing to say, especially as a bishop of the Catholic Church.

If he had said "6 million Jews died in the Holocaust, an unprecedented, soulless and evil event in human history. However, 6 million Poles, Russians, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally handicapped, and others also died for the same wretched and unjustified reasons, and we should make sure that their deaths are also not forgotten", then he would have gotten across what I think is one of the points he was trying to make. Instead, he goes on an anti-Semitic rant. Brilliant.

Oh, come on. Do you really think that was the point he was trying to make? He's not an uneducated, ignorant and inarticulate man. HE SAID WHAT HE MEANT TO SAY.

108 keloyd  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:06:52pm

While we're on the subject, the Poles can have 1/4 of Tony Romo back too, with his metrosexual little hats and beady eyes and carefully trimmed facial hair that always looks like he hasn't shaved in 2 days. I don't care what a good quarterback looks like, but a mediocre one needs to spend less time shopping and fussing about his facial hair and more time practicing.

/Cowboys fan
//Tony Tomo, not so much

109 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:07:40pm

re: #106 brookly red

I missed that one.

I believe Charles had a thread about her.

Google is your buddy.

(She's married to Cass Sunstein. Google him, too.)

110 Gang of One  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:08:01pm

re: #66 Solomon2

Charles, why did you not offer us your opinion of the Bishop's comments?

Class of '04 ...

I call SockPuppet®

111 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:08:07pm

re: #108 keloyd

While we're on the subject, the Poles can have 1/4 of Tony Romo back too, with his metrosexual little hats and beady eyes and carefully trimmed facial hair that always looks like he hasn't shaved in 2 days. I don't care what a good quarterback looks like, but a mediocre one needs to spend less time shopping and fussing about his facial hair and more time practicing.

/Cowboys fan
//Tony Tomo, not so much

And what the fuck does that have to do with this subject?

112 Liberally Conservative  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:08:14pm

re: #98 FightingBack

When my Mother returned to her home (Lodz) in 1946, her Polish neighbors, having appropriated her property, were unhappy to see her alive, and threatened to kill her. In her second daring escape (the first being from the Lodz Ghetto in 1942), she fled Poland illegally, hidden under a mail truck.
She is 98. She has a saying about Poles, Anti-Semitism and Mother's milk, but I won't quote it here.

Polish behavior after 1945 was in many cases rather shameful. Between stuff like this or the Kielce pogrom (mentioned earlier), many Poles let their greed and hatred take over and acted in a way that they would be (probably) too ashamed to talk about for the rest of their lives.

At the same time, there were many Poles that hid Jews, fed them, helped them escape, and fought the Nazis along with them.

113 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:09:11pm

re: #106 brookly red

I missed that one.

Cass. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Powers got booted off of BHO's campaign for tacky remarks about HRC but, she's back at State.

114 keloyd  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:09:19pm

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

They're both Polish.

115 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:10:24pm

re: #114 keloyd

They're both Polish.

And so am I. Big whoop.

116 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:10:29pm

re: #105 MandyManners

What did Samantha Powers say about occupying Israel?

Now, now, now. It's not as if she were anyone important, or had any affiliation with any powerful people.

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

117 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:10:41pm

re: #114 keloyd

They're both Polish.

Jerk... we are talking about anti-semitism, not about football.

118 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:12:53pm

re: #114 keloyd

They're both Polish.

Why don't you go look up thread and read some of the comments. So far, this thread has stayed on topic. You're fucking little comment has nothing to do with what we are talking about and demeans the tone and tenor of this topic and thread. Grow up. If you want to talk football, do it on an open thread, or at least one that has gone off topic.

119 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:12:55pm

re: #113 MandyManners

Cass. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Powers got booted off of BHO's campaign for tacky remarks about HRC but, she's back at State.

Ho-hum. Another nontroversy. Just because she says outrageous and bizarre things, holds views directly antithetical to those suggested by reaon, history, and considerations of morality, and just because she presents every appearance of being yet another unhinged, deranged, or willfully ignorant radical, and serves in the State Department at the POTUS' pleasure, this doesn't mean there's any cause for concern.

120 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:13:03pm

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

And what the fuck does that have to do with this subject?

CDS?

(CowboyDerangementSyndrome.)

121 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:13:25pm

re: #114 keloyd

They're both Polish.

SOFUCKINGWHAT?

122 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:13:59pm

re: #116 Guanxi88

Now, now, now. It's not as if she were anyone important, or had any affiliation with any powerful people.

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

There's a lot out there about her and Cass.

123 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:14:11pm

re: #119 Guanxi88

Ho-hum. Another nontroversy. Just because she says outrageous and bizarre things, holds views directly antithetical to those suggested by reaon, history, and considerations of morality, and just because she presents every appearance of being yet another unhinged, deranged, or willfully ignorant radical, and serves in the State Department at the POTUS' pleasure, this doesn't mean there's any cause for concern.

but I just can't help noticing a pattern...

124 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:14:44pm

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

Why don't you go look up thread and read some of the comments. So far, this thread has stayed on topic. You're fucking little comment has nothing to do with what we are talking about and demeans the tone and tenor of this topic and thread. Grow up. If you want to talk football, do it on an open thread, or at least one that has gone off topic.

*smooch*

125 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:14:59pm

re: #120 MandyManners

CDS?

(CowboyDerangementSyndrome.)

I really don't care. There is some real serious comments about anti-semitism and the Holocaust and the evil of what happened in Europe to the Jews and others, and this little ass wipe comes in here and just because he is not happy about the outcome of a fucking football game, he's going ride on a topic like this with some sick little comment that sounds a bit anti Polish in itself.

Idiot.

126 keloyd  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:15:07pm

re: #115 Soap_Man
If you're not going on an antisemitic rant or dragging down the Cowboys, then you're alright. Really, what original comment can one make about the Holocaust? We have beaten the dead horse that the Holocaust was bad and that antisemitism is still lingering in many countries, especially among people who are likely 80+ years old.

127 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:15:12pm

re: #119 Guanxi88

Ho-hum. Another nontroversy. Just because she says outrageous and bizarre things, holds views directly antithetical to those suggested by reaon, history, and considerations of morality, and just because she presents every appearance of being yet another unhinged, deranged, or willfully ignorant radical, and serves in the State Department at the POTUS' pleasure, this doesn't mean there's any cause for concern.

I've missed you.

128 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:15:26pm

re: #124 MandyManners

*smooch*

Thanks... I really am mad right now.

129 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:15:52pm

re: #126 keloyd

If you're not going on an antisemitic rant or dragging down the Cowboys, then you're alright. Really, what original comment can one make about the Holocaust? We have beaten the dead horse that the Holocaust was bad and that antisemitism is still lingering in many countries, especially among people who are likely 80+ years old.

Piss off.

130 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:15:56pm

re: #126 keloyd

WTF!

131 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:16:06pm

re: #125 Walter L. Newton

I really don't care. There is some real serious comments about anti-semitism and the Holocaust and the evil of what happened in Europe to the Jews and others, and this little ass wipe comes in here and just because he is not happy about the outcome of a fucking football game, he's going ride on a topic like this with some sick little comment that sounds a bit anti Polish in itself.

Idiot.

*smooch*X2

132 Gang of One  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:16:18pm

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

Thanks... I really am mad right now.

Don't get; get even.

133 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:16:32pm

re: #108 keloyd

While we're on the subject, the Poles can have 1/4 of Tony Romo back too, with his metrosexual little hats and beady eyes and carefully trimmed facial hair that always looks like he hasn't shaved in 2 days. I don't care what a good quarterback looks like, but a mediocre one needs to spend less time shopping and fussing about his facial hair and more time practicing.

/Cowboys fan
//Tony Tomo, not so much

It's a QB league..
At the end of the last interview Peyton Manning Had with the Colts before they drafted him #1 overall he started to walk out the room..Stopped and turned around and said something to the effect, If you don't draft me I swear I'll kick your ass every year... The Colts believed him and drafted him.
Peyton is coming into his prime..And everybody knows it..Do Not bet against him...This may be the only moment in your life where listening to the bookies really makes sense....They know football

134 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:16:45pm

re: #104 brookly red

of course I can... who could possibly fault me for supporting higher "education"?

someone deserves a PhD

135 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:16:46pm

re: #123 brookly red

but I just can't help noticing a pattern...

Easy, there, sport. Folk'll think you're one of them deranged conspiracy theorist/Beckian Tea Partiers if you say you notice things like that.

136 jaunte  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:16:54pm

re: #126 keloyd

You're providing proof that all the reminders of what happened are somehow not enough.

137 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:17:04pm

re: #126 keloyd

are you sure it isn't spelled Keloid?

138 Gang of One  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:17:11pm

re: #132 Gang of One

Don't get mad; get even.


PIMF

139 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:17:22pm

re: #126 keloyd

I thought so... a fucking asshole supreme. I didn't think we would be attracting such a royal piece of shit to a discussion like this. Funny how that happens.

Hey, get the hell out of here. Quite while you are ahead.

140 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:17:25pm

re: #126 keloyd

If you're not going on an antisemitic rant or dragging down the Cowboys, then you're alright. Really, what original comment can one make about the Holocaust? We have beaten the dead horse that the Holocaust was bad and that antisemitism is still lingering in many countries, especially among people who are likely 80+ years old.

THAT HORSE IS NOT DEAD.

141 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:17:46pm

re: #134 albusteve

someone deserves a PhD

in physics...

142 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:17:48pm

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

Thanks... I really am mad right now.

(((Walter)))

143 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:18:32pm

re: #108 keloyd

While we're on the subject, the Poles can have 1/4 of Tony Romo back too, with his metrosexual little hats and beady eyes and carefully trimmed facial hair that always looks like he hasn't shaved in 2 days. I don't care what a good quarterback looks like, but a mediocre one needs to spend less time shopping and fussing about his facial hair and more time practicing.

/Cowboys fan
//Tony Tomo, not so much

check out his stats and get back with us...you boob...your histrionics mean nothing

144 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:18:41pm

re: #136 jaunte

You're providing proof that all the reminders of what happened are somehow not enough.

Oh, well said.

145 Gang of One  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:19:03pm

re: #126 keloyd

If you're not going on an antisemitic rant or dragging down the Cowboys, then you're alright. Really, what original comment can one make about the Holocaust? We have beaten the dead horse that the Holocaust was bad and that antisemitism is still lingering in many countries, especially among people who are likely 80+ years old.

So, we should just like, forget it ever happened? Fuck you.

146 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:19:13pm

re: #138 Gang of One

PIMF

I didn't notice it until you PIMF'd.

147 Racer X  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:19:19pm

I'm still trying to figure out why LGF is running so damn slow. Every other web site is fine.

The following shows up in my activity window as "timed out".

//littlegreenfootballs. com/weblog/lgf-ajaxtoprel.php?form=1


Also this one shows as an error:

//littlegreenfootballs. com/weblog/lgf-arepeating.php


Any ideas?

I haven't been able to down ding anyone in 3 days and it's getting very frustrating! (Kidding! I don't down-ding)

148 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:19:32pm

re: #143 albusteve

check out his stats and get back with us...you boob...your histrionics mean nothing

His fucking comment mean nothing, this thread didn't go off topic and become a football thread, and then the asshole comes back and makes a comment like he did about "beating a dead horse..." shit, fuck it.

149 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:20:04pm

re: #147 Racer X

I'm still trying to figure out why LGF is running so damn slow. Every other web site is fine.

The following shows up in my activity window as "timed out".


Any ideas?

I haven't been able to down ding anyone in 3 days and it's getting very frustrating! (Kidding! I don't down-ding)

Have you cleaned out your browser's cache?

150 Gang of One  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:20:10pm

re: #146 MandyManners

I didn't notice it until you PIMF'd.

Next time, I'll keep my mouth shut.

151 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:20:40pm

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

Deep breaths, Walter! Deep breaths.

152 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:20:53pm

re: #141 brookly red

in physics...

hooray for ballistics!

153 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:21:12pm

re: #147 Racer X

I'm still trying to figure out why LGF is running so damn slow. Every other web site is fine.

The following shows up in my activity window as "timed out".


Any ideas?

I haven't been able to down ding anyone in 3 days and it's getting very frustrating! (Kidding! I don't down-ding)

Viagra?

154 Gang of One  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:21:13pm

re: #149 Varek Raith

Have you cleaned out your browser's cache?

Wasn't that one of Hercules's tasks, or something?

155 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:21:13pm

re: #150 Gang of One

Next time, I'll keep my mouth shut.

That's what they all say.

156 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:21:30pm

re: #147 Racer X

I'm still trying to figure out why LGF is running so damn slow. Every other web site is fine.

The following shows up in my activity window as "timed out".


Any ideas?

I haven't been able to down ding anyone in 3 days and it's getting very frustrating! (Kidding! I don't down-ding)

switch browsers

157 brookly red  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:21:46pm

re: #152 albusteve

hooray for ballistics!

red stripe!

158 Soap_Man  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:22:02pm

It's really nice to know that I'm "alright" with keloyd because I wasn't "dragging down the Cowboys."

That shit pissed me off. I have a date with a glass of scotch. I'll talk to you all later.

159 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:22:24pm

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

His fucking comment mean nothing, this thread didn't go off topic and become a football thread, and then the asshole comes back and makes a comment like he did about "beating a dead horse..." shit, fuck it.

I should not have replied...I'm behind here, had a call

160 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:22:50pm

re: #158 Soap_Man

I have a date with a glass of scotch.

Say "Hi" for me.

161 Racer X  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:23:02pm

re: #149 Varek Raith

Have you cleaned out your browser's cache?

Yes.

162 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:23:28pm

re: #161 Racer X

Yes.

With soap? Try something stronger, acid...

163 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:23:50pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

With soap? Try something stronger, acid...

Fire, the Biblical cleanser.

164 Racer X  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:23:52pm

re: #153 brookly red

Viagra?

It already takes almost 3 hours to load a page. Any more than that and I will have to call my doctor.

165 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:24:15pm

re: #157 brookly red

red stripe!

pass 'em around...

166 ryannon  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:24:47pm

re: #164 Racer X

It already takes almost 3 hours to load a page. Any more than that and I will have to call my doctor.

Rx: Google Chrome.

167 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:25:00pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

With soap? Try something stronger, acid...

whoa dude...mushrooms maybe

168 Racer X  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:25:12pm

NOW it is starting to run faster. Very weird. It did this the past 2 days - horribly slow all day, then it gets better at night.

169 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:25:22pm

re: #126 keloyd

If you're not going on an antisemitic rant or dragging down the Cowboys, then you're alright. Really, what original comment can one make about the Holocaust? We have beaten the dead horse that the Holocaust was bad and that antisemitism is still lingering in many countries, especially among people who are likely 80+ years old.

Well you could go clean up your room like you promised you would.

170 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:25:37pm

re: #157 brookly red

red stripe!

re: #165 albusteve

pass 'em around...

Ya know, the Mrs. brought home some canned Guinness the other day.

Ugh! Can't believe they let that stuff pass under the Guinness label; appalling stuff. Heavy, but with none of the satisfying bitterness of the real thing.

171 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:25:49pm

re: #168 Racer X

NOW it is starting to run faster. Very weird. It did this the past 2 days - horribly slow all day, then it gets better at night.

And LGF is the only site giving you troubles?

172 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:26:01pm

re: #164 Racer X

It already takes almost 3 hours to load a page. Any more than that and I will have to call my doctor.

what?....you got problems, dump your browser and try another one

173 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:26:15pm

re: #168 Racer X

NOW it is starting to run faster. Very weird. It did this the past 2 days - horribly slow all day, then it gets better at night.

Are you on cable broadband? Do a trace route on it... I bet you find a snag in the Dallas co-lo data center... wanna bet?

174 windsagio  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:26:28pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

yeah; that makes me think its an issue with the ISP being evil, rather than LGF per se'.

175 Racer X  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:27:00pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

And LGF is the only site giving you troubles?

Yes - and sonofabitch as soon as I whine about it it starts going fast again.

176 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:27:09pm

re: #174 windsagio

yeah; that makes me think its an issue with the ISP being evil, rather than LGF per se'.

Yeah.

177 Racer X  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:27:47pm

re: #173 Walter L. Newton

Are you on cable broadband? Do a trace route on it... I bet you find a snag in the Dallas co-lo data center... wanna bet?

Ooohh - how do I do that? tell me tell me tell me.

178 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:27:50pm

re: #175 Racer X

Yes - and sonofabitch as soon as I whine about it it starts going fast again.

It's toying with you. Like a cat when it corners a mouse.

179 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:27:56pm

re: #175 Racer X

Yes - and sonofabitch as soon as I whine about it it starts going fast again.

I think your isps network is just jammed with traffic.

180 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:28:00pm

re: #170 Guanxi88

Ya know, the Mrs. brought home some canned Guinness the other day.

Ugh! Can't believe they let that stuff pass under the Guinness label; appalling stuff. Heavy, but with none of the satisfying bitterness of the real thing.

in Jamaica it goes straight from Red Stripe to white rum...there is a reason for such a beer

181 Racer X  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:28:36pm

re: #174 windsagio

yeah; that makes me think its an issue with the ISP being evil, rather than LGF per se'.

LGF is the only site giving me problems. All those *other* sites load up really fast with no problems. Pics and all.

182 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:28:43pm

re: #173 Walter L. Newton

Are you on cable broadband? Do a trace route on it... I bet you find a snag in the Dallas co-lo data center... wanna bet?

The Dallas Cloud always has issues...

183 Guanxi88  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:28:43pm

re: #180 albusteve

in Jamaica it goes straight from Red Stripe to white rum...there is a reason for such a beer

I seem to recall enjoying Red Stripe - the scooter and ska punks always had it on hand.

184 Petero1818  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:28:43pm

re: #52 albusteve

like not building houses on the west bank...good one BO, the extent of his diplomacy concerning Israel...spit

ah yes, because we all know that the problem in the region is Israeli aggression right? Wow, I think you need some historical perspective. The history of Modern Israel is basically a history of Israel agreeing to International edicts, and Arabs being aggressors and ignoring them.
I for one, while supporting Israel's right to exist without qualification do not support the settlements, but you need to have your head examined if you believe that the settlements are the impediment to peace in the middle east. They are merely the Arabs cause du jour. Before that it was Jerusalem, and then the right of return, and then the caliphate, and then the right for the Jewish state to exist at all.

185 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:29:04pm

re: #177 Racer X

Ooohh - how do I do that? tell me tell me tell me.

You have to have some trace route software on you computer... you can find some free stuff on the web... look around... Hoosier Hoops may be able to tell you what to use...

HH you there.

186 Gang of One  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:29:15pm

re: #168 Racer X

NOW it is starting to run faster. Very weird. It did this the past 2 days - horribly slow all day, then it gets better at night.

Second wind, I guess.

187 Racer X  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:30:26pm

OK it is fast again.

Never mind.
- Emily Letela

188 ryannon  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:30:28pm

re: #184 Petero1818

I think there's a misunderstanding here. You're kind of new, right?

189 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:31:15pm

re: #182 HoosierHoops

The Dallas Cloud always has issues...

It was biting my ass for a month or so... remember... when I was down hill in Golden, on Comcast broadband... for what ever reason, every jump went through the Dallas co-lo and there was a snag there, it never would find another route... as if Comcast had no other routing programmed for that possibility... it's Dallas or nothing.

190 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:31:47pm

re: #184 Petero1818

ah yes, because we all know that the problem in the region is Israeli aggression right? Wow, I think you need some historical perspective. The history of Modern Israel is basically a history of Israel agreeing to International edicts, and Arabs being aggressors and ignoring them.
I for one, while supporting Israel's right to exist without qualification do not support the settlements, but you need to have your head examined if you believe that the settlements are the impediment to peace in the middle east. They are merely the Arabs cause du jour. Before that it was Jerusalem, and then the right of return, and then the caliphate, and then the right for the Jewish state to exist at all.

I didn't say the housing is an impediment to peace with the Arabs...wow, I think you need some blog perspective, I don't need my had examined and when I do I'll call Walter...back off

191 Petero1818  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:32:15pm

re: #126 keloyd

If you're not going on an antisemitic rant or dragging down the Cowboys, then you're alright. Really, what original comment can one make about the Holocaust? We have beaten the dead horse that the Holocaust was bad and that antisemitism is still lingering in many countries, especially among people who are likely 80+ years old.

Well, if you are looking for an original comment.....It turns out there are people around who still believe that anti semitism is not really a problem anymore in people under 80. Get a clue.

192 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:32:19pm

re: #177 Racer X

Ooohh - how do I do that? tell me tell me tell me.

Trace route an Internet Connection:
Go to Start> Run
Type Cmd
At the DOS window type the following Command
Tracert [Link: www.littlegreenfootballs.com...]
You will take the magic carpet ride over the Internet....

193 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:32:26pm

re: #177 Racer X

Ooohh - how do I do that? tell me tell me tell me.

Try this.

194 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:32:53pm

re: #183 Guanxi88

I seem to recall enjoying Red Stripe - the scooter and ska punks always had it on hand.

it's everywhere down there...fizzy water, I really think it'd 3/2 beer

195 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:33:52pm

re: #184 Petero1818

Hey, why don't you slow down... you're jumping on Steve here and you don't know shit what you are doing. Steve is a major support of Israel... and you are making a fool of yourself... idiot.

196 Petero1818  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:38:41pm

re: #188 ryannon
Well I dont comment that much here but not new. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. Did I miss the sarcasm?

197 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:40:08pm

re: #196 Petero1818

Well I dont comment that much here but not new. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. Did I miss the sarcasm?

You missed the fucking boat all together.

198 albusteve  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:40:49pm

re: #197 Walter L. Newton

You missed the fucking boat all together.

heh..moving up

199 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:42:03pm

re: #197 Walter L. Newton

You missed the fucking boat all together.

LOL

200 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:42:16pm

re: #196 Petero1818

Well I dont comment that much here but not new. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. Did I miss the sarcasm?

like Canseco misses fly balls. it bounced right off of your noggin.

201 Petero1818  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:47:12pm

Hey Walter, I will thank you to not call me an Idiot. I don't recall insulting you, and if it somehow makes you feel better about yourself to do so to me than you are more pathetic than you sound. You will see that I have commented that I may have misread his post and if we are on the same side of the issue than there is no more to be discussed.

202 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:48:08pm

re: #200 Aceofwhat?

like Canseco misses fly balls. it bounced right off of your noggin.

After years of watching him play..Canseco missed High fast balls and curve balls mostly..If he hit the high fast one it went out to 66th ave. in Oakland..
More times than not he struck out...

203 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:53:38pm

re: #201 Petero1818

Hey Walter, I will thank you to not call me an Idiot. I don't recall insulting you, and if it somehow makes you feel better about yourself to do so to me than you are more pathetic than you sound. You will see that I have commented that I may have misread his post and if we are on the same side of the issue than there is no more to be discussed.

I will thank you to be more literate in the future. If you are going to drop an elbow on someone, be right. If you are not right, take your beating like a grownup, apologize, and move on. If you don't want to take a beating, don't wade into the crowd with your elbows out.

204 windsagio  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:58:08pm

re: #203 Aceofwhat?

Hmm, you sure like your wrestling metaphors >>

205 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:00:04pm

re: #204 windsagio

Hmm, you sure like your wrestling metaphors >>

you know, i didn't realize it until you just said it, but i have been a little heavy with the WWF imagery today. i don't even watch the stuff, can't stand it. good observation-

206 ryannon  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:00:20pm

re: #196 Petero1818

Well I dont comment that much here but not new. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. Did I miss the sarcasm?


LGF: It's a hard world for little things the new and clueless. Don't take it personally - unless you persist.

207 windsagio  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:00:58pm

re: #205 Aceofwhat?

It might be the week. Somebody called somebody else a "Mark" and was carrying on about Vince McMahon the other day.

208 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:01:25pm

Right...Bishop Pieronek, how about you get back to us when more than 9/10ths of the population of " Communism, persecuted Catholics and Christians" in Italy, Austria, Albania, Belgium, France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Yugoslavia, Poland, occupied Russia, and other locals are exterminated systematically by an extremest power.

Besides this isn't the only pogrom that the Jewish people have faced, just the largest and most recent, for one thing you should read up on what the "Christians" did during the crusades. "They crucified Jesus" was a frequent battle call as they swept through the Jewish quarter of every conquered town while slaughtering or raping then slaughtering everyone in sight.

Apparently that attitude is not yet dead within the Catholic church, mores the pity...

/in short your an a**hole and an idiot.

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:04:20pm

re: #112 Liberally Conservative


At the same time, there were many Poles that hid Jews, fed them, helped them escape, and fought the Nazis along with them.

The same behavior occurred among Gentiles during the Crusades. There are always those strange, sanctified souls who somehow understand the meaning of faith and humanity even when their religious 'leaders' are doing their best to mute it.

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:05:37pm

re: #114 keloyd

They're both Polish.

So were Copernicus, Chopin, and Marie Curie.

211 Petero1818  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:23:58pm

re: #206 ryannon

LGF: It's a hard world for little things the new and clueless. Don't take it personally - unless you persist.

I don't take it personally, its a blog. I just find it weird how he jumped right to the ad hominem attack over a misunderstanding (albeit an obvious one in retrospect). But if it makes him happy he is welcome to it. I try not to begrudge people the things that keep them happy. Even Walter.

212 Mark Winter  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:30:24pm
a close friend of former pope John Paul II

I wish the late Pope could rise for an hour to deal with his "friend" (God waiving the "turn the other cheek rule" for that time).

213 keloyd  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:37:05pm

Wow, I go eat dinner and come back to find I started a bit of a brush fire.

Mandymanners - you make a valid point about my use of the term "beat a dead horse." That could be read differently than I intended. In this blog no one disagrees on the facts or interpretation of the Holocaust, or that this bishop is an embarrassment to God and Country. My poorly worded point was that in the context of a LGF thread, how many ways can we all agree with each other about this bishop before it's been said?...might as well go off on a tangent and take a friendly swipe at my 1/4 Polish quarterback

214 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:42:28pm

re: #213 keloyd

There was a monday night music thread next door. That probably would have been the place to go when you felt that you'd had enough of this one. That it's all been said is your opinion but your opinion alone. Clearly others had more to say, so why not talk Romo with Kindo playing in the background?

Not rocket science, this.

215 Racer X  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:43:26pm

re: #187 Racer X

OK it is fast again.

Never mind.
- Emily Letela

OK, WTF was that!?!

Shabbam! LGF would not even load. "server not responding". Now it's back but slow as shit.

216 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:46:37pm

*sighs* Yet more proof of European indifference to the suffering of the Jewish people. I'd invite this guy to wander over to MEMRI for some first class propaganda/exploitation by the Palestinians and their Arab cousins.

217 bigred1961  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 7:58:00pm

How/Why does the Catholic Church have any moral authority at all when their so-called leaders spew this kind of crap? It boggles a thinking person's mind.

218 keloyd  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 8:13:56pm

re: #217 bigred1961
And this WAS a "thinking" person's mind, or at least educated person. No amount of education can clean away evil. This crap is part of the human condition. If not the Jewish people, someone else is shat upon. 20-25 centuries ago Jesus, the Bhudda, Confuscius, Socrates and Lao-Tzu all independently took a stab at minimizing this crap, so far with mixed results.

219 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 8:13:58pm

re: #217 bigred1961

How/Why does the Catholic Church have any moral authority at all when their so-called leaders spew this kind of crap? It boggles a thinking person's mind.

Maybe because Pope John Paul II did many many great things to encourage peace and understanding amongst other religions and all people in the world. He reached out to the Jewish community countless times during his time as pope.

I refuse to let this jackass Bishop tarnish the great works that PJPII accomplished during his life.

220 hambone  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 8:18:54pm

The Catholic Church is playing poor me again. What about all the SS that confessed their sin and were welcomed back into the church after the war. They helped them to hide/leave Europe to avoid persecution being as they where good anti-communists. They should try "do as I do" instead of "Do as I say not as I do". Clean up their own messes and maybe they would have some moral authority. If believe Polish bishop and professor Tadeusz Pieronek said it best.“This promotes a certain arrogance that I find unbearable,”

221 TampaKnight  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 8:19:57pm

Pope John Paul II:

"“If taken literally, the Biblical view of the beginning of life and Darwin's scientific view would seem irreconcilable. In Genesis, the creation of the world, and Adam, the first human, took six days. Evolution's process of genetic mutation and natural selection-the survival and proliferation of the fittest new species-has taken billions of years, according to scientists ...”

222 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 8:28:57pm

re: #211 Petero1818

I don't take it personally, its a blog. I just find it weird how he jumped right to the ad hominem attack over a misunderstanding (albeit an obvious one in retrospect). But if it makes him happy he is welcome to it. I try not to begrudge people the things that keep them happy. Even Walter.

Best that you don't take it personally, Walter is kinda known as a "picker of nits", he loves to argue, but often only on topics that are only tangentially associated to the main topic. Just because he disagrees with your post doesn't necessarily mean that he actually disagrees with your point. (:p

Still he is a long term and very respected member here, so I wouldn't advise flippant or derogatory replies, keep it lighthearted and you'll do fine.

223 Petero1818  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 8:40:36pm

re: #222 ausador

Best that you don't take it personally, Walter is kinda known as a "picker of nits", he loves to argue, but often only on topics that are only tangentially associated to the main topic. Just because he disagrees with your post doesn't necessarily mean that he actually disagrees with your point. (:p

Still he is a long term and very respected member here, so I wouldn't advise flippant or derogatory replies, keep it lighthearted and you'll do fine.

I appreciate the comment / advice. I had pretty much figured that out before I responded and edited my reply in accordingly. My original words were lets say more impassioned. I had no intention of taking on the whole board.

224 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 9:16:41pm

It's always difficult to evaluate a crap sandwich with some beef in the middle.
In the end, it's still a crap sandwich. So much for the merits of what Bishop Pieronek said.

Now, on to the beef.

It is true that Communism was responsible for terrible spates of mass murder. In some cases, the Communists targeted Christians. In others, they targeted ethnic minorities. Sometimes, they even targeted their official class enemies. In Cambodia, that was everyone who could read and write, for instance. The Black Book of Communism grinds through the evidence, spelling out in clinical precision the story of somewhere in the near vicinity of one hundred million murders.

Not to take anything away from the gravity of the Nazi-perpetrated Holocaust, or the yet larger numbers of people killed incident to an unjust and predatory war that they launched on most of the rest of the world, but the Communist crimes against humanity should not be forgotten.

Bishop Pieronek should hold his silence on the Holocaust if he cannot bring himself to acknowledge the gravity of the thing, and confine himself to the discussion of topics where his opinions won't foul the air.

225 califleftyb  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 9:38:46pm

Sometimes when I hear the stupid words of some anti-Semite, I listen to this recording -- Your text to link...
Its a rare recording of the survivors of the Bergen-Belsen camp celebrating the first Sabbath after liberation with the singing of "Hatikvah", the soon-to-be Israeli National anthem. Some of these singers would soon die of disease, some would return to their villages in Poland only to be massacred by the Poles that stole their property and did not want to have their complicity with the nazis exposed. Some would languish in DP camps for years, and some would make it to Zion and help found the State of Israel.

ALL of them triumphed over the evil of Nazism, with their bare hands and their will to survive. Through their courage and the sound of their voices I am reminded that the words of a twisted mind is no match for the Jewish Nation.

226 Bob Levin  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 10:49:24pm

re: #225 califleftyb

I wish we triumphed over that evil, but it keeps crawling out from under the rocks, and now it's standing tall again.

I suspect we would hope that the simple historical facts of the Holocaust would be sufficient to knock this evil down, eliminate it in the best possible scenario. But evidently not, because this evil begins to try and change history.

Those comments are evil--think for a second just how twisted the comments are. He tries to minimize the Holocaust by mentioning atrocities of greater numbers. And yet, rather than decry Russia or China, who perpetrated those atrocities, he maligns the Jews.

He is the reason we have to keep trying to teach about the Holocaust, to define evil, to properly delineate the difference between aggressor and victim, to assert truth over what is false. And to help others summon the courage to take a good, hard, look at themselves in the mirror.

And in our down time, try to figure out how to truly defeat this scourge of civilization and all life.

227 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 25, 2010 11:03:25pm

re: #226 Bob Levin

Nicely said.
I am so very, very frightened that the "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" lesson, will include the Holucast, in the future. There are people alive today, who were witness to this, yet they are dying off. And many people TODAY, who deny that this happened.
What will it be like in 300, 50 or 100 years?

228 Bob Levin  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:40:31am

re: #227 Floral Giraffe

I wouldn't mind a bit if more time was spent focusing on events prior to Kristallnacht. It's simple to point out the sadistic vermin of the SS, not so simple to recognize these folks before there was an SS. We can talk all day and all night about the camps, but I also want to know about the construction workers who built them. Weren't these all seemingly normal people before 1933? What about the professors and scientists, those folks with an education that, according to reason, had the ability and education to distinguish good from evil?

If we're pinning our preventative hopes on the longevity of the survivors, then we're just not doing our job.

And you want to know something? I've been exposed to Holocaust education since before I was 10 years old, I've even taught a bit of it. And we never ask the questions I've asked in the first paragraph. We never talk about the average man or woman who was swept up in the Nazi fervor. The questions are too hard--the possible answers engender fear. In other words, can you distinguish between the normal folks of pre-Nazi Germany and the normal folks you see every day in your own life?

Never Again is not for the faint of heart.

229 ryannon  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:44:54am

re: #228 Bob Levin

They call it the banality of evil.

As ubiquitous as sliced bread.

230 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:45:47am

re: #228 Bob Levin

And we never ask the questions I've asked in the first paragraph. We never talk about the average man or woman who was swept up in the Nazi fervor. The questions are too hard--the possible answers engender fear. In other words, can you distinguish between the normal folks of pre-Nazi Germany and the normal folks you see every day in your own life?

I agree with you, but some attempts have been made to grapple with that question. The last chapter of Christopher Browning's book "Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland" deals with that issue.
It's too big and too frightening a question for most to grapple with, which is one reason why I think it doesn't get much coverage. Far more tempting and reassuring to think that the Nazis were specially evil, some sort of evil supermen, rather than come to grips with the complicity and assistance they had from ordinary people.

231 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:47:43am

re: #229 ryannon

They call it the banality of evil.

As ubiquitous as sliced bread.

Yep. Eichmann the accountant, etc.

232 ryannon  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:50:53am

And all the little Eichmenchen buried deep in our best and worst intentions....

Learning to recognize one's own shadow is a lifelong endeavor.

Dixit, C.G. Jung.

233 elizajane  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:36am

I don't think I'll get a lot of updings on this but... as a descendant of Polish Jews, I have a bit more sympathy with this sort of thing coming from Poles. The Poles were both victims and perpetrators in W.W. II, a tough position to negotiate. From the "Holocaust" perspective they generally get painted entirely as perpetrators (it being a fact that a higher percentage of Poland's Jews perished than those of any other nation). Given how atrociously the Poles were treated by the Nazis--massacres, wanton destruction of homes and of heritage--you can see why being forced to play "bad guy" to the Jews' "good guy" infuriates some of them.
Also, to my family (Jewish farmers in the south of the country) serious anti-Semitism only began after the first World War. Obviously we know that there was a history of it, but it had never seemed so bad to them. They left for reasons other than anti-Semitism.
Anyway, usually this sort of thing burns me up, but I thought I'd just try to give a perspective here.

234 eneri  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:32:31am

As another descendant of Polish Jews, what an ass!

235 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:33:24am

"Mr Korol, who is not Jewish, has started work on a film called Hitler’s Daughter, which will examine antisemitism in Poland and, in particular, accusations about antisemitism made against the Catholic Radio Maryja radio station.

“I thought it was about time someone not Jewish said something about antisemitism in Poland,” he said.

He put together a two-minute clip and showed it at the Galway Film Festival before putting it on the internet — which was when his troubles started.

He said: “I was called the ‘biggest Jew’ and attacked as a mason, which I am not, by a Polish anti-masonic website."

“The promotional reel caused great turmoil in the Polish media. Articles were published in Hungary, Germany, Spain and the Czech Republic. I became the object of numerous attacks, received many death threats and many comments very antisemitic in nature, such as ‘leave Poland alone, you Jew, or we’ll cut your hands off’, and so on.”

236 Bob Levin  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:42:20am

re: #233 elizajane

I won't ding you any which way. It's a tough issue to discuss seriously, because to do so means that you have to generalize, while knowing that all generalizations fall apart when you start looking at specifics.

One side of my family was also from Poland, Lithuania, depends which country didn't want this town at what time. Anyway, I was always taught the Poles took to the role of persecutor with great enthusiasm. This is one reason why Jews used to limit their movements on Christmas and Easter.

re: #229 ryannon

The issue kind of boils down to--do you think that Nazi Germany was an aberration in Western Civilization, or the logical outcome of Western Civilization? If you go with the former, then the banality notions falls because the Germans were some type of freaks. If you go with the latter, then the evil is buried within our institutions, our common sense, the physics of our thought process. That's uncomfortable, but it does explain a lot of our present world--and the banality remains intact.

re: #230 iceweasel

Yup.

237 Bob Levin  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:20:22am

re: #230 iceweasel

You know what? We could throw things around here into an uproar because there was a group of scholars who assumed that Nazi Germany was the logical outgrowth of Western Civilization. I'll just name names and see what happens.

The notion of the banality of evil--Hannah Arendt. Escape From Freedom--Erich Fromm. One-Dimensional Man--Herbert Marcuse. The Dialectic of Enlightenment--Max Horkheimer and Theodor Adorno. Believe it or not--Nietzsche (whose sister was a rabid anti-Semite). Nietzsche was just rabid from an STD. But he fought against the German/Western way of thinking, and he saw the problems years before they bloomed.

Michel Foucault-- historian,tracing the development of Western Institutions.
Against Method--Paul Feyerabend, examining the institution of science. I forgot the name of the book, but it's written by William Leiss, examining how spiritual needs are channeled into consumerism. Ivan Illich examined the present state of our institutions.

These folks have been characterized as leftists, but if you open the books, not so much. You just have to understand that they don't view Marx the way Marxists view Marx. (Of course, Marx didn't view himself the way that Marxists viewed him. Famous quote of Marx--"I am not a Marxist.") But then again, there's nothing going on here that others find difficult to categorize.

Anyway, these are excellent books that speak directly to the Holocaust in serious ways. Just couldn't get the syllabus past the rabbi.

I'm still an economic conservative, but after reading all of this wisdom, how can you not be?

238 abolitionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:58:37am

"The anti-Semitic history of Poland is an invention," he said. "A joke ... offensive to our people."

Beyond the pale is a phrase that is particularly applicable here.

Catherine the Great created a 'Pale of Settlement' in Russia in 1791. This was a western border region of the country in which Jews were allowed to live. The motivation behind this was to restrict trade between Jews and native Russians. Some Jews were allowed to live, as a concession, beyond the pale.

Pale of Settlement - wikipedia
Crash Course in Jewish History Part 56 - Pale of Settlement by Rabbi Ken Spiro

The Napoleonic Enlightenment, which emancipated the Jews of Western Europe, did not make it to Eastern Europe where most Jews lived in the 18th-19th centuries.

The largest concentration of Jews -- about 5 million -- was located there, representing 40% of the Jewish population worldwide.

From 1791 until 1915, the majority of Jews living in Eastern Europe were confined by the Czars of Russia -- starting with Catherine the Great -- to an area known as the "Pale of Settlement" (meaning "borders of settlement"). The Pale consisted of 25 provinces that included Ukraine, Lithuania, Belorussia, Crimea, and part of Poland (which had been partitioned between Russia, Prussia, and Austria in 1772).

The western side of what had formally been Poland was absorbed into the Austro-Hungarian Empire. This western half of Poland (which contained important Jewish communities such as those located in Galicia) contained a smaller, but not insignificant, number of Jews. The physical and economic situation of these Jews of the eastern Austro-Hungarian Empire was generally much better than their fellow Jews living in western end of Czarist Russia.

The Jews of Russia were specifically expelled from Moscow and St. Petersburg and forced into the Pale. Later they were also expelled from rural areas within the Pale and forced to live only in shtetls.

Despite the oppression some amazing things happened in the Pale.
[snip]

239 Bob Levin  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:12:22am

We have the makings of the coolest seder ever.

240 abolitionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:26:32am

And following the Battle of Waterloo (1815), there was some uh, err, backsliding with respect to the Napoleonic Enlightenment in Europe.

241 bj  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 6:24:34am

Snap! Of course, the good bishop's snarky words were taken out of context:

Out of context

Bishop Pieronek, however, says the interview printed on the Italian web site bares little resemblance to the one that he gave the journalist.

"I have not seen the printed text of the interview, which I have given but have not authorized. But if I were to believe in what I hear from the media then it looks as though the final form of the interview was the idea of the journalist that I had spoken to, as the text is full of vague statements."

The controversy comes Just two days before Holocaust remembrance Day on January 27 and prime minister of Israel Benyamin Netanyahu's visit to Poland for the 65 anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. (pg)

[Link: michaelsantomauro.blogspot.com...]

sarc/on big time

242 What, me worry?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 10:04:04am

re: #233 elizajane

I don't understand why we should try to understand their perspective. Why would you say that? They get "painted" as perpetrators because they were! Those who were not or do not share this bigoted piece of filth's views have nothing to worry about.

I'm Polish descent. My gpa (born 1902 in Warsaw) never told anyone he was Polish. It was a source of shame to be associated with these brutal murderers.

The Bishop and the Catholic Church who is also responsible for letting this bigot out of his hidey hole can go fuck themselves. Is the pope going to print an apology? I'll wait.

243 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:21:35pm

I am Catholic and have no interest in defending this Bishop. However, two points in the above excerpt are at least worth remembering and perhaps considering for the future.

First, it is true that the Allies did little or nothing to stop the Holocaust. There was the famous instance of the request by Jewish leaders to bomb the train tracks leading into Auschwitz. As it turned out, we had better things to do with our bombs.

Second, I don't think it would hurt to have a general day of remembrance for all victims of the Nazis.

As for his comments about the Palestinians, I imagine Pieronek cares as much for them as he does for Russians. It's a stalking horse, and he's obviously one of the many Poles who are still today more anti-Semitic than 99% of Germans.

244 What, me worry?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:07:24pm

re: #243 Cato the Elder

I am Catholic and have no interest in defending this Bishop. However, two points in the above excerpt are at least worth remembering and perhaps considering for the future.

First, it is true that the Allies did little or nothing to stop the Holocaust. There was the famous instance of the request by Jewish leaders to bomb the train tracks leading into Auschwitz. As it turned out, we had better things to do with our bombs.

Second, I don't think it would hurt to have a general day of remembrance for all victims of the Nazis.

As for his comments about the Palestinians, I imagine Pieronek cares as much for them as he does for Russians. It's a stalking horse, and he's obviously one of the many Poles who are still today more anti-Semitic than 99% of Germans.

Are the Poles today like the Germans? This generation has the burden of shame put upon it. I've met quite a few Germans my age (middle age and younger) who have professed their love of America and the Jewish people. I appreciate that and I know why they say it. While it's true there is a growing rise in anti-Semitism over the last 10 years or so, the Germans feel humiliation over what happened.

America in the 40's hid behind the line that they did not know the enormity of it, but that was a lie. They knew. They turned a blind eye and yes, used bombs for other things, but not necessarily better things.

The Catholic Church has filthy hands that for me will not come clean. Not as long as subhuman animals like this priest are given a voice and not reprimanded.

I am not a Catholic hater. Not one person above mentioned Father Pierre Dubois, the French priest who made it his life's mission to uncover 100s of Jewish graves unaccounted for lying all over Europe, 1000s more people, maybe more. Has the Pope come out and given his praises to this wonderful, caring, empathetic human being? I have not seen it.

245 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:01:19pm

re: #244 marjoriemoon

The Poles today are free to be anti-Semitic because they, too, were Hitler's victims.

Some of the biggest anti-Semites I've ever met were Poles. Including an old girlfriend. She used to talk about the "Jewess" who was her roommate when she did a year in Krakow. She she was one of those anti-Semites who didn't even know it. She sucked it in with her mother's milk.

We didn't go out for long.

246 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:33:08pm

re: #244 marjoriemoon

By the way, I do object to the term "subhuman".

Nihil humanum me alienum puto.

247 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 6:14:21pm

re: #98 FightingBack

When my Mother returned to her home (Lodz) in 1946, her Polish neighbors, having appropriated her property, were unhappy to see her alive, and threatened to kill her. In her second daring escape (the first being from the Lodz Ghetto in 1942), she fled Poland illegally, hidden under a mail truck.
She is 98.

May your mom live to be 120. Only simcha should come her way.

248 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 6:16:41pm

re: #112 Liberally Conservative

At the same time, there were many Poles that hid Jews, fed them, helped them escape, and fought the Nazis along with them.

Yes, the Poles are friendly. My mom told me that the Poles would come down to the train station to wave goodbye.

249 tobariv  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 9:40:07pm

My parents were Holocaust survivors. After the war they were to return to their hometown(the homes their families owned by the way). There was to be a celebration due to the end of the war. A Jewish woman who passed herself as a Polish Catholic during the war (for her own survival, obviously) warned them that there was a plan to poison them. You see the townsfolk blamed the Jews for the war and also didn't want any Jews back. My parents never returned.Maybe this wonderful Polish Catholic leader's family is actually living on my property. I guess my mom's nightmares every night were just my imagination.


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