Re: An Open Letter to Charles Johnson

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I have some business in the analog world today, so I’ll have a more detailed response to Dennis Prager’s article (posted at several conservative websites today) a bit later. But in the meantime I’ll just make one point about his conclusion:

10. Hatred for President Obama that goes far beyond simply criticizing his policies, into racism, hate speech, and bizarre conspiracy theories (see: witch doctor pictures, tea parties, Birthers, Michelle Malkin, Fox News, World Net Daily, Newsmax, and every other right wing source).

The charge is a lie. Period. Those who cannot argue with the right always accuse it of racism. It used to work, Charles. But it is increasingly obvious to all but fellow leftists that the charge is specious. Opposition to President Obama has nothing to do with his race. Indeed, he continues to be more popular than his policies.

Unfortunately, the reader comments for Dennis’s own article at townhall.com refute his claim that “the charge is a lie,” and demonstrate exactly what I was talking about in point number 10. For one example out of many:

Viking
Location: AZ
Reply # 84
Date: Jan 26, 2010 - 9:29 AM EST

Thanks Dennis, another
great article. The Left, in my opinion, is far more intolerant and “hateful” than the Right. Look at how W was portrayed for 8 years - and they complain how we criticize The Kenyan for his policies and incompetence? Hypocrites.

Jump to bottom

765 comments
1 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:02:22am

The cake is a lie. The charges, however, are not.

2 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:04:04am

re: #1 thedopefishlives

1. There's cake?
2. See why I don't visit other blogs?

3 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:05:11am

re: #2 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

1. There's cake?
2. See why I don't visit other blogs?

I did say the cake is a lie. So no, there is no cake. However, your second point is excellent; it's the reason why I stopped visiting HotAir and The Jawa Report. Their pages just got so full of ODS bullshit that I couldn't take it anymore.

4 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:06:04am

So, Prager's point is refuted by a knuckle-dragging comment? Unless he posted it, or approved in any way of its content, I don't imagine it does any more harm to his point than my presence here does to yours.

5 slterry40  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:06:38am

"The Kenyan" is your great example of hate speech? Um...his dad is Kenyan, so he is half Kenyan. My mom is from Spain, I'm not insulted when my friends call me a Spaniard. You are going to have to do better than that to prove your point.

6 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:07:04am

Does Prager have the ability to delete comments at Townhall?

7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:07:33am

re: #5 slterry40

That's exactly what the poster meant.
/

8 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:07:37am

Forgive my ignorance and explain to me: What cake? I heard about the article, but I fail to connect the dots.

9 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:07:39am

re: #4 Guanxi88

So, Prager's point is refuted by a knuckle-dragging comment? Unless he posted it, or approved in any way of its content, I don't imagine it does any more harm to his point than my presence here does to yours.

Actually, it does. Prager's point is that there is no racism in the Vast Unhinged's opposition to Obama. Unfortunately, this is patently false; this comment is blatantly race-baiting and shows the latent racism in at least part of the segment that opposes the President, which proves by counterexample that the statement of "no racism" cannot hold true.

10 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:08:28am

re: #8 Dragon_Lady

Forgive my ignorance and explain to me: What cake? I heard about the article, but I fail to connect the dots.

It's an obscure reference to a video game. It was meant to be amusing and not entirely on-topic. I don't indulge in those kinds of comments very often, so, my apologies.

11 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:09:50am

I hope it's red velvet cake!

12 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:09:51am

re: #5 slterry40

If you were President of the United States, you might feel a bit differently about being called a Spaniard.

13 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:09:59am

re: #5 slterry40

"The Kenyan" is your great example of hate speech? Um...his dad is Kenyan, so he is half Kenyan. My mom is from Spain, I'm not insulted when my friends call me a Spaniard. You are going to have to do better than that to prove your point.

I took the "Kenyan" to be a birther comment more than a racial comment, but if one wants to argue that the birther thing is in itself racist then I can see racist by default.

14 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:10:29am

re: #4 Guanxi88

So, Prager's point is refuted by a knuckle-dragging comment? Unless he posted it, or approved in any way of its content, I don't imagine it does any more harm to his point than my presence here does to yours.

Yes, it is refuted by that, and by the thousands upon thousands of similar comments you can find all over the right wing websites.

15 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:10:58am

re: #9 thedopefishlives

Actually, it does. Prager's point is that there is no racism in the Vast Unhinged's opposition to Obama. Unfortunately, this is patently false; this comment is blatantly race-baiting and shows the latent racism in at least part of the segment that opposes the President, which proves by counterexample that the statement of "no racism" cannot hold true.

So, to clarify, then, Prager's point is refuted, irrefutably refuted, by an anonymous poster, whose viewpoint is more representative of the Right than that of the man upon whose column he is commenting?

By that standard, any and all opposition to the Iraqi War is immediately reducible to support for al-qaeda and/or hussein.

16 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:11:14am

re: #5 slterry40

"The Kenyan" is your great example of hate speech? Um...his dad is Kenyan, so he is half Kenyan. My mom is from Spain, I'm not insulted when my friends call me a Spaniard. You are going to have to do better than that to prove your point.

You are not the President, nor, to my knowledge, has your citizenship been questioned because of your parental lineage.

The President is a citizen of the United States, not Kenya.

Referring to him as a "Kenyan" is a way, of course, of pointing out his African heritage, and continuing the silly suspicion that he is not a US citizen.

17 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:11:23am

re: #13 brookly red

I took the "Kenyan" to be a birther comment more than a racial comment, but if one wants to argue that the birther thing is in itself racist then I can see racist by default.

Yeah, it's a birther comment but, I still fail to see racism. It'd be the same if his father was a Canadian. Or, a Scots.

18 2oldstroke  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:12:10am

Charles,
Yea, what the heck happened to you? If people can't stick to arguing the issues and then resort to name calling (either side) then you lose me and others. Conservatives in this country tend to be more Libertarian then the totalitarian left and yes they aren't perfect.

19 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:12:41am

While various pundits might not make racist claims, they never the less embrass the lunatic fringe who do make these comments on a regular basis. Those who do openly refute or speak out about making comments like that are turned on by a lynch mob of angry commenters for daring to go against the mob.

20 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:13:38am

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

While various pundits might not make racist claims, they never the less embrass the lunatic fringe who do make these comments on a regular basis. Those who do openly refute or speak out about making comments like that are turned on by a lynch mob of angry commenters for daring to go against the mob.

You see Prager doing anything like that? In the example above, I certainly don't.

21 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:13:46am

re: #5 slterry40

"The Kenyan" is your great example of hate speech? Um...his dad is Kenyan, so he is half Kenyan. My mom is from Spain, I'm not insulted when my friends call me a Spaniard. You are going to have to do better than that to prove your point.

Barack Obama is not a Kenyan. He was born in the United States. And this label is very obviously a race-baiting insult, not even remotely similar to an affectionate nickname given to you by your friends.

22 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:14:05am

re: #15 Guanxi88

So, to clarify, then, Prager's point is refuted, irrefutably refuted, by an anonymous poster, whose viewpoint is more representative of the Right than that of the man upon whose column he is commenting?

By that standard, any and all opposition to the Iraqi War is immediately reducible to support for al-qaeda and/or hussein.

Since when was any of this personal? Prager said:

Opposition to President Obama has nothing to do with his race.


That comment is selected from the set of all people opposed to President Obama, and can be easily construed as a racist slur against the President. Ergo, the statement that for all people opposed to President Obama, there is no racism, is false.

23 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:14:13am

re: #13 brookly red

I took the "Kenyan" to be a birther comment more than a racial comment, but if one wants to argue that the birther thing is in itself racist then I can see racist by default.

I don't jump to the racism charge quickly since I know it's used by the left ad nauseam to stifle debates they can't win, but from observing Nirthers for well over a year now I can tell you that for a large portion of them, it is securely grounded in racism and xenophobia.

24 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:14:16am

re: #18 2oldstroke

WHO YOU CALLING A NAME CALLER!?!?

Neener.

Sheesh.

25 Girth  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:14:18am

Let's give Mr. Prager the benefit of the doubt and say that he's not a racist, never has been, doesn't have a racist bone in his body. Good for you, sir.

This does not change or excuse the fact that you, and many like you on the right, are far too comfortable with using the support that you get from people who are blatantly racist in thought and deed in order to bolster your own position. Until the movement calls these people out and says in no uncertain terms that you want nothing to do with these people you have a very big problem.

26 webevintage  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:14:24am

re: #16 reine.de.tout


Referring to him as a "Kenyan" is a way, of course, of pointing out his African heritage, and continuing the silly suspicion that he is not a US citizen.

Not "one of us", not a "real American"....

27 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:14:35am

re: #20 Guanxi88

You see Prager doing anything like that? In the example above, I certainly don't.

I don't recall ever accusing Dennis Prager of making those kinds of remarks.

28 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:17:27am

re: #22 thedopefishlives

That comment is selected from the set of all people opposed to President Obama, and can be easily construed as a racist slur against the President. Ergo, the statement that for all people opposed to President Obama, there is no racism, is false.

If you honestly believe that Prager was saying that there exists no opposition to the President that is not racial in origin, I think you misread him. I don't imagine he was speaking of the entire subset of those opposed to the President and his policies. However, by pointing out that those who oppose the President on ideological grounds share a distrust of the President with those who oppose him on racial grounds, one can make a very nice smear that reduces all opposition to the President as evidence of latent racism or, at the very least, giving aid and comfort to the worst and ugliest elements in our society.

29 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:17:31am

re: #14 Charles

Hay Charles, I would like to give you a little hope in the right wing and republican party in regards to Global Warming, as you know I think Global Warming at best is a scam and at worst is grossly exaggerated.

However the highest ranking member of the US Conference of Mayors (Mayor Kautz) who happens to be a Republican has been working for years on Global Warming Initiatives to make metro areas "Climate Neutral". She is already making progress in many communities where the federal and international levels have done little, but talk.

Don't loose hope, fight for what you believe in with-in the party.

30 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:17:32am

ODS is so personal, just like BDS was.

I don't agree with Obama on most of his policies, but I don't dislike the man personally. He, like a lot of other Americans, has different views than I do.

I'll fight the views and the policies, but I feel that to slam him personally actually detracts from my arguments.

31 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:17:43am

re: #20 Guanxi88

You see Prager doing anything like that? In the example above, I certainly don't.

Embracing the mob for a buck and turning a blind eye to some very ugly comments in the meantime? Yeah, I see that.

32 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:17:57am

re: #27 Charles

I don't recall ever accusing Dennis Prager of making those kinds of remarks.

And yet, he's held responsible for those who do make them.

33 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:18:35am

re: #23 ArchangelMichael

I don't jump to the racism charge quickly since I know it's used by the left ad nauseam to stifle debates they can't win, but from observing Nirthers for well over a year now I can tell you that for a large portion of them, it is securely grounded in racism and xenophobia.

I know some brithers that are clearly all that & others that are just constitutional law buffs... I call them birther lites.

34 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:18:48am

Calling Obama a Kenyan is as racist as calling W a cowboy or Clinton a redneck. None of these statements rises to the dignity we should afford our President but unfotunately there are always idiots who will do so.

The particularly aggregious part of the slurs aimed at Obama is many are obliquely or directly aimed at the color of his skin and at the fact that he is a monority. The witch doctor and wookie cracks are worse than the Kenyan stuff IMO because the latter is probably more of a birther slur.

Either way I'm not inclined to defend any of the bad behavior. Goodness knows there are enough legitimate criticisms to be made about the way the country is being governed (if you disagree with Obama, Pelosi, Reed and company).

No one has to turn this into a race issue. Not to slam him or be overly sensitive to criticism- and there are guilty parties on both sides of that lever.

35 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:18:54am

re: #32 Guanxi88

And yet, he's held responsible for those who do make them.

Does he have the ability to delete comments?

36 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:19:10am

Charles, I am hearing your name more and more mentioned by the media. Congratulations! If they're responding to you in any way or form it means you're doing it right and I am proud to be one your Lizards! My father watches Glen Beck everyday and I asked him if he remember hearing Glen mention LGF and he said yes. I wiggled my fingers at him and said "Hi Dad, I'm part of LGF" My Dad scowled at me and I just smiled! He knows my politics and he wanted to know why I post on LGF, I told him he'd just have to go to the blog and find out.
Now he pays more attention to any mention of LGF and I think he's reading the posts now. Keep up the excellent work! Maybe someday your Lizards will be able to help formulate real change in this misguided country of ours!

37 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:19:55am

re: #9 thedopefishlives

Actually, it does. Prager's point is that there is no racism in the Vast Unhinged's opposition to Obama. Unfortunately, this is patently false; this comment is blatantly race-baiting and shows the latent racism in at least part of the segment that opposes the President, which proves by counterexample that the statement of "no racism" cannot hold true.


Shoot I appose him because he is
1. A liberal governing from the left when he is the President of us all.
2. He wants to completely make over our health system rather than fixing what can be fixed about it.
3. He turned his signature program over to Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee and is surprised we are howling about the result.

I don't like the racism against him. However I didn't like the trash talked about GW either.

38 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:20:43am

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Embracing the mob for a buck and turning a blind eye to some very ugly comments in the meantime? Yeah, I see that.

The eye that alters......

39 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:20:45am

re: #32 Guanxi88

And yet, he's held responsible for those who do make them.

No, he's held responsible for denying they exist. See:

The charge is a lie. Period.
40 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:21:01am

re: #28 Guanxi88

While the last part of your statement is true - it's certainly possible that a smear could be made against legitimate ideological criticisms of the President because of shared distrust with the racist idiots - your argument fails because Prager committed a logical fallacy of over-generalizing. He implied "no opposition is racist" when that is obviously not the case.

41 Irenicum  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:21:04am

Prager said that "opposition to President Obama has nothing to do with his race" and while that may certainly be true of some who oppose his policies, Prager didn't qualify his statement that way. Instead he made a blanket statement. And as his statement stands, it's blatantly false. Many who oppose Obama do in fact oppose him because of his ethnic background. Believe me, I know. I've seen it up close and personal.

42 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:21:10am

re: #11 MandyManners

I hope it's red velvet cake!

I'll take a slice of that if you find it Mandy.

43 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:21:44am

re: #41 Irenicum

And you summed it up exactly how I was planning on putting it. GMTA.

44 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:21:46am

re: #36 Dragon_Lady

...Maybe someday your Lizards will be able to help formulate real change in this misguided country of ours!

The conservative Lizards are fighting for a change in party balance for 2010. Thanks for the support. ;-)

45 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:21:53am

Ohhhh, so that's the problem... POTUS' rhetoric is just way too intelligent for mortals to grasp, that's why he's slipping.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

46 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:22:30am

re: #10 thedopefishlives

It's an obscure reference to a video game. It was meant to be amusing and not entirely on-topic. I don't indulge in those kinds of comments very often, so, my apologies.

Okey dokey! Mystery solved and I feel a bit more enlightened today. //

47 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:22:41am

re: #36 Dragon_Lady

Charles, I am hearing your name more and more mentioned by the media. Congratulations ...

Yet his "fan club" at the various doucheblogs still insist he's irrelevant, losing more readers and commenters than he gains, and about to go bankrupt... I guess it isn't just a river in Egypt.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:23:19am

re: #5 slterry40

"The Kenyan" is your great example of hate speech? Um...his dad is Kenyan, so he is half Kenyan. My mom is from Spain, I'm not insulted when my friends call me a Spaniard. You are going to have to do better than that to prove your point.

I'm not insulted when my friends say I'm a Jew. However, if I became president, and was being referred to as 'the Jew', instead of President Zionist, I think it would be fair to raise a couple of eyebrows hard.

49 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:23:26am

re: #39 wrenchwench

Again, I doubt very much that Prager's point was that there exists nowhere any opposition to Obama that is not racial in origin. I think the point is that the charge - tossed about far too frequently - of racism as a motivating or even typical feature of Rightist opposition to Obama is, as he says, specious at best.

Given the vocal presence of a few neo-stalinists & pro-jihadists within the anti-Iraq war movement, one could just as easily smear Quakers with the charge of Stalinism and/or jihadism for their opposition to the Iraqi War.

50 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:23:47am

re: #14 Charles

Yes, it is refuted by that, and by the thousands upon thousands of similar comments you can find all over the right wing websites.

True there is racism against President Obama. re: #5 slterry40

"The Kenyan" is your great example of hate speech? Um...his dad is Kenyan, so he is half Kenyan. My mom is from Spain, I'm not insulted when my friends call me a Spaniard. You are going to have to do better than that to prove your point.

Actually he is an American and you should know better.

51 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:24:16am

re: #44 DaddyG

The conservative Lizards are fighting for a change in party balance for 2010. Thanks for the support. ;-)

Anything I can do to help balance this country of ours is, on my part, an act of patriotism. I wish I could do more.

52 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:24:17am

By the way, there's plenty of other nasty stuff in the comments at Townhall. People suggest I might be a child molester, that I'm being paid off by commies, that Barack Obama is a commie traitor, that I've chosen a "sinful" lifestyle, etc. etc.

The one comment I picked out because I'm pressed for time is far from the only extreme one.

I'd also note that one of the other contributors to Townhall.com is ... Pat Buchanan.

Anyway, more detailed answer later with lots of links, when I have more time.

53 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:24:28am

re: #45 tradewind

Ohhh, so that's the problem... POTUS' rhetoric is just way too intelligent for mortals to grasp, that's why he's slipping.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

After reading the lede and second paragraph, I'll have to try hard to not make a TOTUS joke.

54 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:24:30am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not insulted when my friends say I'm a Jew. However, if I became president, and was being referred to as 'the Jew', instead of President Zionist, I think it would be fair to raise a couple of eyebrows hard.

I'm pretty sure if you were President and you were literally being called "President Zionist" it would be Paulians doing it and they wouldn't mean it in a good way.

55 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:24:38am

re: #34 DaddyG


Calling Obama a Kenyan is as racist as calling W a cowboy or Clinton a redneck.


...And we all remember the absolute firestorm of criticism heaped on anyone who dared do either of the latter.///

56 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:25:09am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not insulted when my friends say I'm a Jew. However, if I became president, and was being referred to as 'the Jew', instead of President Zionist, I think it would be fair to raise a couple of eyebrows hard.


Would Supreme American Jew work for ya? /

57 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:25:44am

re: #52 Charles

By the way, there's plenty of other nasty stuff in the comments at Townhall.......that I've chosen a "sinful" lifestyle, etc. etc.

That's odd, I haven't seen you at our monthly meetings.

58 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:26:20am

re: #53 MandyManners

O'Brien says that when he talks about Obama with young people the phrase they remember is "Yes, We Can," his campaign slogan.


Damn, we're screwed.....

59 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:26:21am

re: #13 brookly red

I took the "Kenyan" to be a birther comment more than a racial comment, but if one wants to argue that the birther thing is in itself racist then I can see racist by default.

Well if we carried this to the inth degree what did it mean to call Bush a Chimp?
I do however feel the writer was using 'Kenyan' as code for black or something worse.

60 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:26:24am

re: #45 tradewind

Ohhh, so that's the problem... POTUS' rhetoric is just way too intelligent for mortals to grasp, that's why he's slipping.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

An articulate speaker is one who can get his point across clearly. Thats not Obama.

61 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:26:27am

re: #52 Charles

By the way, there's plenty of other nasty stuff in the comments at Townhall. People suggest I might be a child molester, that I'm being paid off by commies, that Barack Obama is a commie traitor, that I've chosen a "sinful" lifestyle, etc. etc.

The one comment I picked out because I'm pressed for time is far from the only extreme one.

I'd also note that one of the other contributors to Townhall.com is ... Pat Buchanan.

Anyway, more detailed answer later with lots of links, when I have more time.


I'm sure a few Commies have purchased Kindles, you advertise for Amazon ergo... /ducks and runs

62 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:27:10am

re: #53 MandyManners
Yeah, don't make me relapse there....///

63 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:27:15am

re: #41 Irenicum

Prager said that "opposition to President Obama has nothing to do with his race" and while that may certainly be true of some who oppose his policies, Prager didn't qualify his statement that way. Instead he made a blanket statement. And as his statement stands, it's blatantly false. Many who oppose Obama do in fact oppose him because of his ethnic background. Believe me, I know. I've seen it up close and personal.

Up close and personal. Me too I'm afraid. If we in our daily lives are witnessing this, doesn't that show it to be pretty much, er, common?

64 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:27:55am

re: #58 tradewind

Damn, we're screwed...

They only remember "Yes we can" because of Bob the Builder.

65 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:28:12am

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They only remember "Yes we can" because of Bob the Builder.

SI SE PUEDE!

66 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:28:14am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

Nice avatar!

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:28:53am

re: #15 Guanxi88

So, to clarify, then, Prager's point is refuted, irrefutably refuted, by an anonymous poster, whose viewpoint is more representative of the Right than that of the man upon whose column he is commenting?

By that standard, any and all opposition to the Iraqi War is immediately reducible to support for al-qaeda and/or hussein.

I don't agree. I see Prager as denying this evident and obvious racial strain in hatred of--not disagreement with--Obama.

68 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:29:09am

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They only remember "Yes we can" because of Bob the Builder.

Well, when we get talking John Deeres, we will be able to do just about anything.

69 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:29:30am

re: #59 Blueheron

Well if we carried this to the inth degree what did it mean to call Bush a Chimp?
I do however feel the writer was using 'Kenyan' as code for black or something worse.

/Bush had the unique quality of being a "chimp" AND an "evil genius" all at the same time.

70 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:30:16am

re: #49 Guanxi88

Again, I doubt very much that Prager's point was that there exists nowhere any opposition to Obama that is not racial in origin. I think the point is that the charge - tossed about far too frequently - of racism as a motivating or even typical feature of Rightist opposition to Obama is, as he says, specious at best.

Given the vocal presence of a few neo-stalinists & pro-jihadists within the anti-Iraq war movement, one could just as easily smear Quakers with the charge of Stalinism and/or jihadism for their opposition to the Iraqi War.

So you agree with Prager that this is a lie?:

10. Hatred for President Obama that goes far beyond simply criticizing his policies, into racism, hate speech, and bizarre conspiracy theories (see: witch doctor pictures, tea parties, Birthers, Michelle Malkin, Fox News, World Net Daily, Newsmax, and every other right wing source).

That doesn't happen?

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:30:32am

re: #17 MandyManners

Yeah, it's a birther comment but, I still fail to see racism. It'd be the same if his father was a Canadian. Or, a Scots.

If people were insisting that a president with a Scottish father was not a real American, and calling him 'the Scot', I'd be a bit concerned as well.

72 Irenicum  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:31:07am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

Exactly. Some ethnic terminology is neutral (some obviously isn't), and it entirely depends upon the context of how that ethnic term is being used to determine whether it's being used in a positive, neutral, or pejorative sense. Thus when someone uses "the Kenyan" to refer to President Obama, Kenyan stops being a neutral term and becomes a term that implies his being un-American or even non-American. That is using an neutral ethnic term in a pejorative way.

73 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:31:11am

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I suppose the writers have enunciation and articulation confused.....although to be fair, the first definition of articulate does involve the phonetic pronunciation of words..... transmitting their meaning is number three.

74 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:31:16am

All republicans are racist right wingers.
nope
All Obama supporters are leftists.
nope
Obama turns every criticism into racism.
nope
All conservatives are bigots and homophobes.
nope

There is way too much racism showing up on the right and it has been pronounced since the election of Barak Obama as president.

ok

There is a tendency on the part of some on the left to dismiss legitimate criticism as racist when in fact it is based on policy not color or ethnicity.

fair?

Blogging provides a worldwide media outlet for the stupidest among us.

Bingo!

75 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:31:53am

re: #41 Irenicum

Exactly.

76 researchok  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:31:58am

It bears remembering this isn't a 'well they do it too' endeavor. If the right wants to be better, they have to act that way.

77 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:32:00am

re: #58 tradewind

Damn, we're screwed...

No, we're not.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:32:05am

re: #32 Guanxi88

And yet, he's held responsible for those who do make them.

Not responsible, but I think, proven at least partially wrong.

79 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:32:19am

re: #70 wrenchwench

That doesn't happen?

Of course that stuff happens. Is it representative of conservatism, or opposition to the President, as a whole, though?

Some think it is typical, and obtains for the most part; others, and I am among them, treat fringe phenomena as fringe phenomena.

80 Summer Seale  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:32:30am

Dear Dennis Prager,

I really think that you're way out of line.

To start with, you write for a publication which also publishes the views of white supremacists, so you are in league with people who publish race-baiting tripe for profit.

That should disqualify any and all of your arguments right there, but let's pretend it doesn't and move on, shall we?

Every time I've heard you talk to Charles Johnson on your show, you sounded as if you couldn't tell a blog from an old fashioned newspaper. Somehow, I doubt that you seriously delve into all of the commentaries of certain blogs or you would absolutely get a "flavor" from what their audiences say. Either you willfully ignore the overwhelming majority of comments on Hot Air and other such places, or you tacitly agree with them - none of which puts you in a moral category above a leech.

To the point of racism: I think it's fairly obvious to most of us who are not deranged by hatred of Obama's Presidency that the fact that he has received more death threats than any other standing President in recent history can conclusively tell us something about the nature of his opposition. Also, there are thousands of pictures of racist signs being displayed at Tea Parties across the nation in full view of the public. Indeed, one of the founders of these Tea Parties was photographed holding a sign with the N-word, which got him into lots of hot water.

Your point about respecting science, of course, is laughable. The verdict is in: the vast majority of scientists know and have stated full well that all the research indicates (after decades and decades) the real threat of Global Warming. To pull up a few "skeptics" who do not is akin to pulling up the five or so "scientists" who think that evolution is untrue and saying that there is a case to be made. That isn't respecting science; it is respecting idiocy. I can pull up a handful of "scientists" who think that perpetual motion machines are possible as well, but that doesn't make it a real case at all. To not understand this fundamental tenet of science is to not understand science in any way whatsoever.

On your point about Geller and Spencer: they have openly supported organizations which do call for the extermination of all Muslims - thus they are in league with them. I actually do not support Islam as an ideology or religion, Atheist that I am, but I'd say that supporting those who want to kill all Muslims is going a bit too far, wouldn't you? Just a smidgen?

I'd go on but I've run out of time. I might get back to you after my annoying advertising on my show which interrupts every ninety seconds, but we'll see if I have the forethought to continue on this streak while I try to sell you cars from local businesses or diamond rings at exorbitant prices.

Sincerely,

Summer Seale.

81 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:32:50am

re: #30 EmmmieG

ODS is so personal, just like BDS was.

I don't agree with Obama on most of his policies, but I don't dislike the man personally. He, like a lot of other Americans, has different views than I do.

I'll fight the views and the policies, but I feel that to slam him personally actually detracts from my arguments.

Well said.

82 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:33:27am

re: #76 researchok

It bears remembering this isn't a 'well they do it too' endeavor. If the right wants to be better, they have to act that way.

I won't be held hostage by ignorant racists.

83 Irenicum  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:33:34am

re: #63 Stanley Sea

Sadly, yep.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:33:45am

re: #37 Blueheron

Shoot I appose him because he is
1. A liberal governing from the left when he is the President of us all.
2. He wants to completely make over our health system rather than fixing what can be fixed about it.
3. He turned his signature program over to Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee and is surprised we are howling about the result.

I don't like the racism against him. However I didn't like the trash talked about GW either.

But YOU, oh glorious Azure Heron, are able to admit that there's racism in the conversation about it, and say that you don't like it, as opposed to defending it because trash was also talked about GWB. That's why you're the Heron, and Viking is a SCHMUCK.

85 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:33:56am

re: #55 tradewind

...And we all remember the absolute firestorm of criticism heaped on anyone who dared do either of the latter.///


I defended him as did other lizards. I see a very normal dynamic of people behaving more badly when perceived to be out of power. It isn't pretty on the left and should not be tolerated on the right. How on earth is small government get out of debt politics going to succeed if we get lumped in with bigotry and hatred?

86 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:34:15am

re: #79 Guanxi88

Of course that stuff happens. Is it representative of conservatism, or opposition to the President, as a whole, though?

Some think it is typical, and obtains for the most part; others, and I am among them, treat fringe phenomena as fringe phenomena.

OK, you say it happens, Prager says it doesn't happen. Why are you defending him?

87 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:35:07am

re: #35 MandyManners

Does he have the ability to delete comments?


I doubt that he does Mandy.

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:35:40am

re: #54 ArchangelMichael

I'm pretty sure if you were President and you were literally being called "President Zionist" it would be Paulians doing it and they wouldn't mean it in a good way.

Well, OK, but you know what I mean--my real last name, not 'Zionist'...

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:36:01am

re: #56 DaddyG

Would Supreme American Jew work for ya? /

I like "Jew in Chief".

90 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:36:22am

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

But YOU, oh glorious Azure Heron, are able to admit that there's racism in the conversation about it, and say that you don't like it, as opposed to defending it because trash was also talked about GWB. That's why you're the Heron, and Viking is a SCHMUCK.

Thanks. I think :))
lolol

91 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:36:32am

re: #85 DaddyG

I defended him as did other lizards. I see a very normal dynamic of people behaving more badly when perceived to be out of power. It isn't pretty on the left and should not be tolerated on the right. How on earth is small government get out of debt politics going to succeed if we get lumped in with bigotry and hatred?

and of course the big government tax & spend types aren't actively trying to do just that.

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:37:04am

re: #66 wrenchwench

Nice avatar!

Thank you! Her name is Israela Georges, and she is the future of Haiti!

(aged nine days)

93 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:37:18am

re: #87 Blueheron

I doubt that he does Mandy.

I didn't think so.

94 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:37:48am

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

Thank you! Her name is Israela Georges, and she is the future of Haiti!

(aged nine days)

Pure snuggable!

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:38:19am

re: #72 Irenicum

Exactly. Some ethnic terminology is neutral (some obviously isn't), and it entirely depends upon the context of how that ethnic term is being used to determine whether it's being used in a positive, neutral, or pejorative sense. Thus when someone uses "the Kenyan" to refer to President Obama, Kenyan stops being a neutral term and becomes a term that implies his being un-American or even non-American. That is using an neutral ethnic term in a pejorative way.

Yup.

96 Irenicum  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:38:52am

re: #80 Summer

Kudos! Funny and to the point!

97 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:39:58am

Actually, I am about to expose what might be a bias, but it is a bias based on examples:

Adam Smith
James Clerk Maxwell
Alexander Hamilton
David Hume
Alexander Graham Bell
Alexander Fleming
James Watt
Etc. etc.

Being called Scottish isn't an insult anywhere that I know of. For some people, being called a Kenyan is.

98 Ericus58  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:42:22am

LOS ANGELES (AP) - NASA's Mars rover Spirit will rove no more.

The space agency said Tuesday that scientists have given up trying to free Spirit, which has been trapped in soft sand since last April. Instead, the focus will turn to tilting it to the north so it can get enough sunlight on its solar panels to survive the upcoming Martian winter.

Though Spirit's roving career has ended, it will still do research stuck where it is as long as it has the energy.

Since landing on Mars in 2004, Spirit has trekked nearly five miles (eight kilometers) and climbed a mountain as tall as the Statue of Liberty. Its twin, Opportunity, continues to drive and explore.

99 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:43:30am

re: #91 brookly red

and of course the big government tax & spend types aren't actively trying to do just that.

Yes. That is where I agree. There are people out there actively trying to portry any conservative as bigoted and narrow minded. It has been in the playbook for a very long time.

However, getting defensive over real racism (mild to heavy) will not help clean up the image of real conservatism.

I feel that LGF focuses on the behavior of the wingnuts more than the moonbats at this time but it also seems to me that may be a product of who is in power and who is complaining about it. LGF has hosted many stories about the Moonbat left behaving badly, promoting anti-semetism and undermining our troops.

Charles has admittedly been left-center in his politics but I feel like I have a voice as a right-center to solid right commentator. I've never had a post removed for political reasons. There were the few times I quoted trolls however...

100 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:43:52am

re: #79 Guanxi88

Of course that stuff happens. Is it representative of conservatism, or opposition to the President, as a whole, though?

Some think it is typical, and obtains for the most part; others, and I am among them, treat fringe phenomena as fringe phenomena.

No, it's not typical. But when leadership of the right refuses to confront and marginalize the hate speech, it taints the whole thing. And that lack of confrontation is a damn a shame, as what's is desperately needed in this country right now are adults talking sanely to each other instead of past each other and making progress towards solutions to problems that really can transcend political labels.

101 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:43:58am

re: #77 MandyManners

Okay, probly' an overreaction, but I can't help but wish they would take away more than that.

102 martinsmithy  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:44:19am

"The Kenyan" may not be racist, but it clearly is a reference to the "Birthers," who are definitely among the whacked-out conspiracy theorists. Calling him "the Kenyan" certainly implies that he was born there.

103 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:48:05am

re: #30 EmmmieG

ODS is so personal, just like BDS was.

I don't agree with Obama on most of his policies, but I don't dislike the man personally. He, like a lot of other Americans, has different views than I do.

I'll fight the views and the policies, but I feel that to slam him personally actually detracts from my arguments.

Can't say it enough. I won't vote for him in 2012 (unless he's running against Palin!), but he's my president and he will get the respect and support that he deserves every day that he's in office.

104 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:48:14am

re: #98 Ericus58

LOS ANGELES (AP) - NASA's Mars rover Spirit will rove no more.

The space agency said Tuesday that scientists have given up trying to free Spirit, which has been trapped in soft sand since last April. Instead, the focus will turn to tilting it to the north so it can get enough sunlight on its solar panels to survive the upcoming Martian winter.

Though Spirit's roving career has ended, it will still do research stuck where it is as long as it has the energy.

Since landing on Mars in 2004, Spirit has trekked nearly five miles (eight kilometers) and climbed a mountain as tall as the Statue of Liberty. Its twin, Opportunity, continues to drive and explore.


Wingnut: Why hasn't the President done something about the roads and infrastructure on Mars? He's such an earthling!

Moonbat: Those roads were neglected for 8 years and Bush sent the rover to another planet to die!

Bircher: Why are we sending envoys to the Red planet.

Libertarian: Dude! Cal is gonna legalize pot! Woo hoo!

105 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:48:44am

re: #100 Jeff In Ohio

No, it's not typical. But when leadership of the right refuses to confront and marginalize the hate speech, it taints the whole thing. And that lack of confrontation is a damn a shame, as what's is desperately needed in this country right now are adults talking sanely to each other instead of past each other and making progress towards solutions to problems that really can transcend political labels.

All well and good, but I imagine the proof of their marginalization is to be found in the fact that Prager claims to have never heard of some of these worst of the bad actors, and appears shocked at the suggestion that they are typical.

Best way to make a lunatic a mainstreamer is to treat him like one; give them the continued cold shoulder, though, and they stay marginalized.

In attempting to portray the nutcases as a growing and typical segment of Conservatism in America, you only accelerate the very condition you claim to fight.

106 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:49:06am

re: #85 DaddyG

How on earth is small government get out of debt politics going to succeed


To paraphrase Jack Bauer, 'it's going to take a hacksaw'.
And I don't see any budget-cutters willing to wield one in our present political system.

107 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:49:58am

re: #106 tradewind

To paraphrase Jack Bauer, 'it's going to take a hacksaw'.
And I don't see any budget-cutters willing to wield one in our present political system.


I'm afraid they are going to wait until the Chinese and Saudis decide to do it. Shudder.

108 Cineaste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:50:04am

re: #29 lrsshadow

Hay Charles, I would like to give you a little hope in the right wing and republican party in regards to Global Warming, as you know I think Global Warming at best is a scam and at worst is grossly exaggerated.

Wouldn't a scam be worse than an exaggeration?

109 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:50:15am

re: #105 Guanxi88

How do you explain the resurgence of the long-ignored Birchers? (They are attending CPAC 2010.)

110 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:50:39am

re: #108 Cineaste

Wouldn't a scam be worse than an exaggeration?


Not if you are Bernie Madoff. /

111 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:51:23am

re: #105 Guanxi88

So the reality of the situation doesn't matter? Just the reaction to it? If we just ignore the radical right they'll go away?

That sounds like magical thinking, to me. You can give someone a very pointed rebuttal that does a lot more to check them out of the mainstream than ignoring them does.

And they're not being ignored by many GOP candidates; they're being courted.

112 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:51:23am

re: #107 DaddyG

I'm afraid they are going to wait until the Chinese and Saudis decide to do it. Shudder.

/It would be a hoot to watch them fight over the spoils though...

113 philosophus invidius  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:51:26am

One thing that comes across in Prager's article: he is shockingly ignorant of what is going on in the world and in the conservative movement.

A related point: he says

When you were on the politically and morally right side, Charles, you provided massive evidence for your positions. Now you throw verbal bombs.

I guess when someone agrees with him, the reasons for it are "massive evidence." One someone disagrees those reasons are just "verbal bombs."

114 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:51:44am

re: #53 MandyManners

After reading the lede and second paragraph, I'll have to try hard to not make a TOTUS joke.

"some of the speeches are too complicated for typical citizens"
That's it. We are to stupid to understand him. Maybe he should try drawing with crayons at his State of the Union address so we all can get it. /

115 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:51:56am

Prager's a troglodyte when it comes to women, so it's hardly surprising he doesn't think racism is a problem on the right.

116 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:52:40am

re: #109 wrenchwench

How do you explain the resurgence of the long-ignored Birchers? (They are attending CPAC 2010.)


Bing out of power leads to loudness and jockying on the part of the outer factions. It is a normal post election dynamic. It pairs interestingly with the victor thinking they are invulnerable and have a mandate.

The reaction to this jockying or hubris makes all the difference in how the parties will reform or stagnate.

2008-2012 is an organizational behavioralists dream for me.

117 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:52:43am

re: #114 Blueheron

"some of the speeches are too complicated for typical citizens"
That's it. We are to stupid to understand him. Maybe he should try drawing with crayons at his State of the Union address so we all can get it. /

Mongo only pawn in game of life.

118 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:53:39am

re: #111 Obdicut

So the reality of the situation doesn't matter? Just the reaction to it? If we just ignore the radical right they'll go away?

That sounds like magical thinking, to me. You can give someone a very pointed rebuttal that does a lot more to check them out of the mainstream than ignoring them does.

And they're not being ignored by many GOP candidates; they're being courted.

I'm glad you joined this one.

No, ignoring a moron isn't magical thinking; it's treating them with the contempt they deserve.

Courted, are they? Any Birthers, Nirthers, Klansmen, Aryans, or other such-like in the recent GOP line-up? News to me if there were.

119 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:53:41am

re: #112 brookly red

/It would be a hoot to watch them fight over the spoils though...


SLightly used bureaucrat - will work for noodles. /

120 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:54:35am

I like Dennis and have to agree with his general premise. It would seem to me that over the last year or so this site has dropped down a couple of notches into the world of expanding points. As in the smallest detail is made as a general rule of the right.

If you find a comments on HotAir then it makes the whole right a racist group. A republican politician says global warming is a scam and we have colder temperatures then before, well then the whole right is a bunch of anti-scientist, anti-global warming, when republican leaders are leading the way in global warming efforts (see Mayor Kautz, President of the US Conference of Mayors).

Beck say to his relative don't reenlist, because the Obama admisistration may call him a baby killer (didn't happen, but a few weeks later three Navy Seals are being brought up on court martial, because a terrorist claims he was punched in the stomach during his apprehension.) Joe Biden wants to appeal the dismissal of the Black Water case (all blackwater employees in this case are prior US Military) Yet everything Beck says is a lie.

The knee jerk reaction LGF has obtained toward the right and a focus of the fringe of the right and stating it is the majority view point has degraded his site.

I get the sense that according to Charles if the right ain't perfect and devoid of fringe, then the whole right is just a bunch of well you know what.

When you have a 100,000,000 plus people in a group you are going to find some nut jobs. If you choose to focus on the nut-jobs, you are going to miss the point entirely.

It would be like me basing the left and democrat party as a bunch of segregationist, left wing, communist, hate our military, who love terrorists, want genocide in Africa, and were member of the KKK

Here lets look at the list;

President Carter supported Robert Mugabe (socialist government)
Senator Byrd Prior Grand Dragon of the KKK
Senator Kerry Winter Soldiers investigation
Democrats ran segregationist tickets in the south
on and on and on. So by LGF standard if you are a liberal, left winger, or democrat, you support racism, slavery, hate the military, etc

Obviously it would be ignorant to draw a general conclusion for a group of people from a few nut cases.

121 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:54:45am

re: #109 wrenchwench

How do you explain the resurgence of the long-ignored Birchers? (They are attending CPAC 2010.)

Beck & the interwebs feeding into a massive uneasiness about Obama and his chums.

Next question?

122 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:56:15am

re: #115 Merryweather

From that article:


A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him

Oh good grief. I know my fiancée loves me first and foremost by her willingness to talk to me for long periods of time, the care she shows for me, and the way she tells me what she loves about me. That includes sex. Sex is not the first and foremost method of communication of love.


re: #118 Guanxi88

That's your standard for if the GOP doesn't have the radical right on board? Just none of those groups? What about, say, Ihofe or Bachmann?

123 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:56:25am

re: #107 DaddyG

I'm not as freaked re the ChiComs economically as most seem to be..... think Japan, and how terrified of them we were a few short years ago. They were the economic Godzilla that would swallow us all.
.....Not so much.

124 Cineaste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:57:04am

re: #34 DaddyG

Calling Obama a Kenyan is as racist as calling W a cowboy or Clinton a redneck. None of these statements rises to the dignity we should afford our President but unfotunately there are always idiots who will do so.

While I agree with your sentiment, I do think there is a distinction between calling Obama a Kenyan and Bush a Cowboy. The Cowboy comment would be based on Bush's behavior and mannerisms, something that he has chosen. The Kenyan comment is a reference to something inalienable, something wrong with Obamas nature at his birth. The evil in the latter is far greater since it is a prejudice against a class of people based on how they were born (black, Jewish, female, etc...) rather than an (albeit classless) retort to their actions or attitudes.

The particularly aggregious part of the slurs aimed at Obama is many are obliquely or directly aimed at the color of his skin and at the fact that he is a monority. The witch doctor and wookie cracks are worse than the Kenyan stuff IMO because the latter is probably more of a birther slur.

True, but McCain was born in a potentially dubious location (on an offshore military base that was on loan to the US in the Panama Canal zone) and yet nobody was bothered by his legitimacy. It is precisely because it was Africa and sub-saharan 'black' Africa at that.

125 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:57:21am

re: #121 Guanxi88

Beck & the interwebs feeding into a massive uneasiness about Obama and his chums.

Next question?

Wait, a followup on this one, please. Aren't you massively contradicting yourself there?

126 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:57:43am

re: #122 Obdicut

From that article:


Oh good grief. I know my fiancée loves me first and foremost by her willingness to talk to me for long periods of time, the care she shows for me, and the way she tells me what she loves about me. That includes sex. Sex is not the first and foremost method of communication of love.


re: #118 Guanxi88

That's your standard for if the GOP doesn't have the radical right on board? Just none of those groups? What about, say, Ihofe or Bachmann?

I know my wife loves me because she continues to put up with my crap.

127 Cineaste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:57:43am

re: #110 DaddyG

Not if you are Bernie Madoff. /

If Bernie had only exaggerated his performance he likely would be in far better shape...

128 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:57:50am

re: #114 Blueheron

"some of the speeches are too complicated for typical citizens"
That's it. We are to stupid to understand him. Maybe he should try drawing with crayons at his State of the Union address so we all can get it. /


Remember Biden saying that we're not accustomed to someone who's smart?

129 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:57:58am

re: #113 philosophus invidius

One thing that comes across in Prager's article: he is shockingly ignorant of what is going on in the world and in the conservative movement.

A related point: he says

I guess when someone agrees with him, the reasons for it are "massive evidence." One someone disagrees those reasons are just "verbal bombs."

I think Dennis was referring to the 10 reasons as the verbal bomb, which it was.

130 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:57:58am

re: #115 Merryweather

I like ya Dennis, but LOLOLOLOL.///
And a Bwahahah , in case you missed the point.

131 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:58:23am

re: #122 Obdicut

From that article:


re: #118 Guanxi88

That's your standard for if the GOP doesn't have the radical right on board? Just none of those groups? What about, say, Ihofe or Bachmann?

Well, in fairness, you did say "courted" not married....

Still, of course there'll be a few whackos in congress. I don't hold Cynthia McKinney, Barney Frank, Bernie Sanders, et al against every democrat.

Fortunately, though, the real radicals on the American left are firmly shunned from elected office; appointment is a far easier way to get them where the want to be.

132 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:58:24am

re: #55 tradewind

...And we all remember the absolute firestorm of criticism heaped on anyone who dared do either of the latter.///

Maybe he meant "Keynesian", which he is...

133 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:58:38am

re: #123 tradewind

I'm not as freaked re the ChiComs economically as most seem to be... think Japan, and how terrified of them we were a few short years ago. They were the economic Godzilla that would swallow us all.
...Not so much.


Our saving grace is that they are becoming consumers and they want our agriculture and commodities as well as Buicks and movies. At the recent bargain prices we should see some of that debt slosh back our way. They are heavily invested in us and aren't about to want to bankrupt their own retirement fund.

134 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:58:41am

Dennis -

Isn't this a time for moral clarity?

I am not trying to use your words against you - I am honestly beseeching you to address something that many refuse to confront.

No - not all criticism of Obama is racist. That is simply not what Charles wrote.

He wrote "that goes far beyond".

To reduce that assertion to essentially "all criticism of Obama is racist"* and then call it a lie does absolutely nothing to address a moral issue - one you, of all conservatives, should be willing to candidly confront.

Reshaping an others' words so as to morally condemn them does not create moral clarity. If it is an intentional act, it is an amoral one.

*Your words avoid Charles' entirely via reductionism:

The charge is a lie. Period. Those who cannot argue with the right always accuse it of racism. It used to work, Charles. But it is increasingly obvious to all but fellow leftists that the charge is specious. Opposition to President Obama has nothing to do with his race. Indeed, he continues to be more popular than his policies.
135 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:58:50am

re: #125 wrenchwench

Wait, a followup on this one, please. Aren't you massively contradicting yourself there?

No.. One can be uneasy about him without being an unhinged racist.

Any more questions

136 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 11:58:59am

re: #76 researchok

It bears remembering this isn't a 'well they do it too' endeavor. If the right wants to be better, they have to act that way.


Well we try. You just aren't paying attention./

137 Lidane  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:00:08pm

re: #1 thedopefishlives

The cake is a lie.

Unless it's red velvet. Then it's the greatest thing ever invented. ;)

The charges, however, are not.

Sad, but true.

138 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:00:13pm

re: #124 Cineaste

Calling Bush a cowboy was small potatoes compared with much of the more derisive bombs hurled in his direction: chimp; shrub; etc. They were basically ascribing Bush as subhuman - a position that the far right is mirroring with some of their truly racist crap (the African garb, for example).

Throw in the birthers and you've got a truly unhinged group of people out there.

139 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:00:14pm

re: #105 Guanxi88

All well and good, but I imagine the proof of their marginalization is to be found in the fact that Prager claims to have never heard of some of these worst of the bad actors, and appears shocked at the suggestion that they are typical.

Best way to make a lunatic a mainstreamer is to treat him like one; give them the continued cold shoulder, though, and they stay marginalized.

In attempting to portray the nutcases as a growing and typical segment of Conservatism in America, you only accelerate the very condition you claim to fight.

Disagree. We should shine the light on the most odious on our side of the spectrum and put our fellow limited-govt types to the test - repudiate or be assumed to be part of the noxious odor. Can't clean house in the dark...

140 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:00:28pm

re: #135 Guanxi88

No.. One can be uneasy about him without being an unhinged racist.

Any more questions

On the flip side, there are those who disagree with him primarily because of his race. Do you agree with that statement?

141 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:00:44pm

re: #124 Cineaste
Nothing I said disagrees with your assessment. The race related remarks are more aggregious - I said that.

McCain's birthplace was used as political fodder by far fewer people so its proportionately less likely to be quoted by an idiot.

142 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:00:56pm

re: #132 ralphieboy

Yes We Keyne?

143 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:01:07pm

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

On the flip side, there are those who disagree with him primarily because of his race. Do you agree with that statement?

Of course - and I'd argue that their numbers are few and the noise they make out of all proportion to their size .

144 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:01:28pm

re: #129 lrsshadow

I think Dennis was referring to the 10 reasons as the verbal bomb, which it was.

Which ignores the year or two worth of hard evidence that preceded the "10 reasons". By the time Charles made that post, I thought it was old news and was surprised at the big deal that was made, and continues to be made about it.

145 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:02:08pm

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

On the flip side, there are those who disagree with him primarily because of his race. Do you agree with that statement?

You could say the same thing about our last president.

146 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:02:22pm

re: #135 Guanxi88

No.. One can be uneasy about him without being an unhinged racist.

Any more questions

Isn't Beck in your example doing exactly what Charles is mentioning in his #10? That which Prager says doesn't happen?

147 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:02:34pm

re: #132 ralphieboy

Maybe he meant "Keynesian", which he is...

Hahahahahaha. I think you are giving far too much credit for intelligence and far too little for spelling acumen.

148 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:02:35pm

re: #115 Merryweather

Prager's a troglodyte when it comes to women, so it's hardly surprising he doesn't think racism is a problem on the right.

Clearly you didn't read it, or well. He has a book about it - writing TO women ABOUT male thought and behavior. So as a male, i'll be the judge of his accuracy on this subject, thank you very much.

149 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:02:50pm

re: #128 MandyManners

Whaddya suppose is the real reason Bo Biden's not biting at the Senate seat that's been warmed for him all this time?

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:02:53pm

re: #115 Merryweather

Prager's a troglodyte when it comes to women, so it's hardly surprising he doesn't think racism is a problem on the right.

I love having men lecture me on how I've got the wrong idea about marriage...

151 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:02:55pm

It is entirely possible to criticize Obama and his policies without being the least bit racist. And it is sometimes all to easy to broach cricicism that can be seen (or misinterpreted) as racist.

But on the other hand, I think that part of the problem (and *please*, this is only part of the problem) is that there are some racists who cannot bring themselves to use the n-word directly, this makes them open to whatever spurious and unfounded accusations and claims are out there to ven their pent-up bigotry.

152 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:03:20pm

re: #134 karmic_inquisitor

The 10 reasons given by Charles were toward the general right of the political spectrum and when he wrote;

"Why I Parted Ways With The Right." then gave 10 reasons;

1. Support for fascists, both in America (see: Pat Buchanan, Robert Stacy McCain, etc.) and in Europe (see: Vlaams Belang, BNP, SIOE, etc.).

By that then the right supports fantasists. Like it or not the 10 reasons Charles gave were generality of the entire right. Charles did paint a very wide brush and Dennis is calling him out on it.

153 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:03:22pm

re: #145 RogueOne

You could say the same thing about our last president.

You have an example of that? Do you even have an anecdote?

154 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:04:08pm

re: #149 tradewind

Whaddya suppose is the real reason Bo Biden's not biting at the Senate seat that's been warmed for him all this time?

Beat's me.

155 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:04:10pm

re: #131 Guanxi88

So you're admitting, then that Bachmann and Inhofe are the radical right?

156 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:04:18pm

re: #122 Obdicut

As offensive as that article (and its sequel, it's only Part 1) is to women, it's just as offensive to men as it basically says men are incapable of deep feelings and are 100% about sex.

A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him

I love that part. Like a woman's body is a piece of property that can be 'given' away.

157 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:04:54pm

It is unwise to pick a fight with Dennis Prager. Of all the talk radio personalities, he is the most rational, honest, and intelligent, right or wrong. He is of NPR caliber, imho. Disagree and argue all you like, but this anger and labeling is baseless.

The group-think, dour seriousness and name calling has gotten out of hand here. You are not racist for writing nonracist things in a publication that contains the work of others who have gotten close to, or just over the line.

You cannot be a creationist (as Charles has called Prager) AND believe the Earth is 4.6 billion years old in a 13.7(?) year old universe, and that we are biologically descended from the great apes. I heard Prager say this on the air (paraphrasing to the best of my memory) though he also equivocated a bit about when we got a soul, when you draw the line between human and ape, etc.

Prager's thoughtful and sensitive probing of the differences between men and women re sexuality does not make him a "troglodyte," even if you disagree with his carefully worded and lengthy opinions.

The blogosphere and talk radio are full of little angry Napoleons shouting names at each other. The culture gets under your skin if you're in it too long. Even good people (ahem, Charles) are affected by being immersed in it too long. It is better to try for being 'in the world but not of the world' as the old saying goes.

and "the Kenyan" can be cheeky, carry a double meaning, and even be in questionable taste without being racist. Liberal paternalism treating certain minorities like dependent children is more racist than ignorant political speech.

158 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:05:20pm

Hoot! I've achieve 9000 Karma.

Now back to my regular whoring...

159 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:05:31pm

re: #153 wrenchwench

"George Bush Doesn't Care About Black People"
Kanye West.///

160 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:05:32pm

re: #155 Obdicut

So you're admitting, then that Bachmann and Inhofe are the radical right?

Putting words in someone's mouth again?

161 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:05:35pm

re: #139 Aceofwhat?

Disagree. We should shine the light on the most odious on our side of the spectrum and put our fellow limited-govt types to the test - repudiate or be assumed to be part of the noxious odor. Can't clean house in the dark...

By all means, then. Let's make certain to demonstrate our bona fides by displaying prominently our dirty laundry for the world to see. And in so doing, let's make absolutely certain to flagellate and punish and humiliate ourselves for the sins and crimes of those uncouth apes whom we did not invite.

Yep, that's the best way to do it.

162 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:05:35pm

re: #153 wrenchwench

You have an example of that? Do you even have an anecdote?

163 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:06:04pm

re: #155 Obdicut

So you're admitting, then that Bachmann and Inhofe are the radical right?

Sure, if it'll make you happy.

Howzabout Sanders, Frank, et al.? Or are they mainstream?

164 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:06:04pm

re: #159 tradewind

"George Bush Doesn't Care About Black People"
Kanye West.///

That was an 8 year meme.

165 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:06:22pm

re: #156 Merryweather

I love that part. Like a woman's body is a piece of property that can be 'given' away.

I like to think of a woman's body as a gift that keeps on giving. /Unlike a man's that can only give once in a while.

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:06:38pm

re: #157 keloyd

It is unwise to pick a fight with Dennis Prager.

Why? He's certainly not untouchable, if he's mistaken, he's mistaken. And he's often mistaken.

167 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:07:25pm

re: #134 karmic_inquisitor

Dennis -

Isn't this a time for moral clarity?

I am not trying to use your words against you - I am honestly beseeching you to address something that many refuse to confront.

No - not all criticism of Obama is racist. That is simply not what Charles wrote.

He wrote "that goes far beyond".

To reduce that assertion to essentially "all criticism of Obama is racist"* and then call it a lie does absolutely nothing to address a moral issue - one you, of all conservatives, should be willing to candidly confront.

Reshaping an others' words so as to morally condemn them does not create moral clarity. If it is an intentional act, it is an amoral one.

*Your words avoid Charles' entirely via reductionism:

Double updings. There is more than one example of that in what Prager wrote.

168 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:07:35pm

re: #146 wrenchwench

Isn't Beck in your example doing exactly what Charles is mentioning in his #10? That which Prager says doesn't happen?

Ask Prager and Beck. My point is that all opposition to the President is not reducible to, or derived from, Beckian Tea Party racism.

169 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:07:41pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

Sanders is definitely far-left.

However, you were denying that the radical right figures largely into the GOP, and could just be ignored. How exactly do you ignore Bachmann and Inhofe? By giving them the cold shoulder, do you think that the GOP should kick them out of the party?

170 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:07:59pm

Prager:

Associating the American right with fascism is done only by leftist ideologues and propagandists, not by serious critics.

No, that was done by Robert Spencer, and Pamela Geller, then Hot Air, Ace of Spades, R.S. McCain...the list goes on. What popular or well known figures on the American right are calling them out for it? Not Mr Prager, that's for sure. Nor anyone else, it seems; the general picture seems to be that they are at best trying to minimise it, at worst supporting and justifying it. Which, sad though it may be for the American right, proves Charles's point entirely.

171 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:08:40pm

re: #159 tradewind

re: #162 RogueOne

OK, I concede the point. Between the two of you, there's one example.

172 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:08:42pm

re: #164 RogueOne

That was an 8 year meme.


True. I just think it's time the adults stopped with the payback.

173 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:08:52pm

re: #153 wrenchwench
Really?
Really??

174 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:09:09pm

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist
Disagree? yes chide? yes Argue? yes!
Fight? no! He's just not Pat Buchanan. HE doesn't pick fights.

Some people, not yourself, look for excuses to be offended, like "give her body to her husband" being somehow evidence of being sexist. It is a perfectly normal phrase of the English language denoting sex.

175 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:09:24pm

re: #171 wrenchwench

Oh No You Dih-unt.
Do you want the link storm?

176 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:10:30pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

Sure, if it'll make you happy.

Howzabout Sanders, Frank, et al.? Or are they mainstream?

Pelosi. Reid.

177 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:10:36pm

re: #148 Aceofwhat?

I have read it, and his subsequent articles on relationships. His basic point is: ladies, you can't change men, all they think about is sex, so you just have to put out and put up. And as he's telling us what to do if we're not in the mood, I have just as much right as you to say he's full of crap, thank you very much.

178 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:11:05pm

re: #115 Merryweather

Prager's a troglodyte when it comes to women, so it's hardly surprising he doesn't think racism is a problem on the right.


I agree with you about Prager's attitudes towards women. I basically like him but when he starts on the 'little woman' types of things he looses me completely.

179 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:11:07pm

re: #169 Obdicut

Sanders is definitely far-left.

However, you were denying that the radical right figures largely into the GOP, and could just be ignored. How exactly do you ignore Bachmann and Inhofe? By giving them the cold shoulder, do you think that the GOP should kick them out of the party?

See, Inhofe and Bachmann are what are known as representatives. See, they "represent" certain geographical areas, the voting populations of which may or may not hold certain views that may or may not meet in all respects with your or my approval.

To extrapolate from them to some larger point about the GOP (are they national leaders, by any chance?) would be as foolish as attempting to use Joe Lieberman as representative of the state of the Democratic party.

But just as you please.

180 jmcdanal1  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:11:18pm

re: #52 Charles

By the way, there's plenty of other nasty stuff in the comments at Townhall. People suggest I might be a child molester, that I'm being paid off by commies, that Barack Obama is a commie traitor, that I've chosen a "sinful" lifestyle, etc. etc

Can someone help me out here - im having a hard time finding where anyone suggested that Charles is a child molester. The closest thing to a comment like that was a post about Scott Ritter. Perhaps he really is pressed for time and is simply skimming thru posted comments?

from townhall.com:

Chris
Location: MO
Reply # 72
Date: Jan 26, 2010 - 10:59 AM EST Ageed with the blackmail comment
I agree with an early comment about the possibility of him being blackmailed, let think of that Ritter guy, the former UN inspector and how his views all of a sudden did a 180 change and then we learn he's really a child predator.

181 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:11:23pm

re: #80 Summer

Upding! You said it well, Summer. I like your kind of thinking. :-)

182 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:11:38pm

re: #176 MandyManners

Pelosi is a corporatist Democrat who the progressives loathe.

183 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:11:52pm

re: #161 Guanxi88

By all means, then. Let's make certain to demonstrate our bona fides by displaying prominently our dirty laundry for the world to see. And in so doing, let's make absolutely certain to flagellate and punish and humiliate ourselves for the sins and crimes of those uncouth apes whom we did not invite.

Yep, that's the best way to do it.

Flagellate ourselves? did i lapse into french again? i don't punish myself for cleaning a room. you have to have the light on to realize that your rug is dirty. then you take it outside and beat it mercilessly until it's clean. you don't whip yourself. i am free from the crimes of said uncouth apes because i beat them like rented mules at every opportunity.

184 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:12:19pm

Merryweather,
He's full of pragmatism, which often has a similar smell and texture as being full of crap. He also spends a lot of time laying into men telling us to straighten up/ grow up.

185 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:12:32pm

re: #179 Guanxi88

Check your mail. I want to know a bit more about that piece of jade.

186 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:12:34pm

re: #168 Guanxi88

Ask Prager and Beck. My point is that all opposition to the President is not reducible to, or derived from, Beckian Tea Party racism.

Do you really mean "all...is not" or do you mean "not all...is"?

187 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:13:02pm

re: #183 Aceofwhat?

Flagellate ourselves? did i lapse into french again? i don't punish myself for cleaning a room. you have to have the light on to realize that your rug is dirty. then you take it outside and beat it mercilessly until it's clean. you don't whip yourself. i am free from the crimes of said uncouth apes because i beat them like rented mules at every opportunity.

Evidently, though, your abuse of the mules (dirty joke somewhere in there) will never suffice to efface the stain and taint of the benighted folk, for whom we shall always be held to account.

188 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:13:06pm

I think we all know the biggest wackjobs in the planet LOVE to post comments on websites... Wait, does that make me a wackjob? Either way, using those to condemn Dennis is very ineffective to those of us who are not dedicated to a stringent ideology.

189 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:13:11pm

How to get de-friended in Facebook..

WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Press 1 for English. Press 2 to disconnect until you learn to speak English. And remember only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, JESUS CHRIST and the AMERICAN SOLIDER. One died for your soul..., the other for your freedom. If you agree... copy and paste in your status

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:13:20pm

re: #174 keloyd

Disagree? yes chide? yes Argue? yes!
Fight? no! He's just not Pat Buchanan. HE doesn't pick fights.

Some people, not yourself, look for excuses to be offended, like "give her body to her husband" being somehow evidence of being sexist. It is a perfectly normal phrase of the English language denoting sex.

I'm offended by the entire article. Prager can keep his nose out of my marriage with his syrupy help for post-feminist girls.

191 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:13:37pm

re: #177 Merryweather

I have read it, and his subsequent articles on relationships. His basic point is: ladies, you can't change men, all they think about is sex, so you just have to put out and put up. And as he's telling us what to do if we're not in the mood, I have just as much right as you to say he's full of crap, thank you very much.

Sorry, as someone who listens to Dennis often over the last few years, you don't know what your talking about. I would suggest listening to a few hours of Dennis, especially his male female hour.

His basic point is:

Man and Women are different and a better understand to our natures leads to better relationships. He has never once called for the subjugation of woman and to say so only shows your ignorance of his show and articles.

192 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:13:52pm

re: #179 Guanxi88

Can you show how I'm extrapolating from them to the larger party, please?

Can you explain how the tactic of ignoring the radicals is supposed to work when they're elected to office, like Bachmann?

See, Inhofe and Bachmann are what are known as representatives. See, they "represent" certain geographical areas, the voting populations of which may or may not hold certain views that may or may not meet in all respects with your or my approval.

What does that have to do with what I'm asking? I'm asking if you want them to be given the cold shoulder by the GOP. What you said has nothing to do with it.

193 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:14:14pm

re: #165 DaddyG

I love that part. Like a woman's body is a piece of property that can be 'given' away.

Oh Brother. If i'm going to be, um, intimate with my wife...then we are either giving to each other or taking. Which term would you prefer?

194 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:14:20pm

re: #175 tradewind

Oh No You Dih-unt.
Do you want the link storm?

I don't need a storm. Do you have examples besides K. West?

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:14:53pm

re: #189 cliffster

How to get de-friended in Facebook..

That would do it for me.

196 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:15:49pm

re: #184 keloyd

I'm sorry, but being told to just let a guy have his way with me anyway if I'm not in the mood for sex, as that's the only way to maintain a happy relationship, is not my idea of pragmatism. If anything, following Prager's 'advice' would make me bitter and resentful.

197 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:15:54pm

I am holding Townhall, not Dennis accountable for the comments. I am holding Dennis accountable for his article-and nothing more. I'm not going to blame Dennis Prager for who Townhall allows on. It's not great but it sure ain't stormfront.

re: #80 Summer
I fully agree with your science paragraph. And yes Dennis is old school 20th century media guy. Like many, he does not understand blogs as well as the media he worked for decades.

I believe you overstate the racism among the critics of President Obama. I can't say I blame you, given the loud, ugly nature of such and the media echo chamber. Then add the fact that offshore threats are included, in the middle of a long war, and you get a record number of threats. It's our enemies running that total up.

I submit you will find the right leaners here are more representative than you think of the right overall. Maybe I have a bit more faith than some in ordinary libertarians and republicans. Even the New Whigs.

Add the fact it serves the left well to amplify the charge as best they can. Racism certainly threads through the right, enough to deserve a serious push back, but not a broad stroke.

Charles I notice, has careful aim to his charges. Precise names and places. Good for him. I wish more people were as careful.

198 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:16:11pm

re: #189 cliffster

How to get de-friended in Facebook..

The "Shame on America for giving so much money to Haiti when there are people starving here" (or however it's worded) one almost got a few people axed from mine... if they weren't close friends that I have known for decades. I'll just ignore it and continue with my "i refuse to get political with friends" stance.

199 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:16:16pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm offended by the entire article. Prager can keep his nose out of my marriage with his syrupy help for post-feminist girls.

Another person who knows nothing about Dennis Prager^^^^

200 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:16:18pm

re: #192 Obdicut

Can you show how I'm extrapolating from them to the larger party, please?

Can you explain how the tactic of ignoring the radicals is supposed to work when they're elected to office, like Bachmann?

What does that have to do with what I'm asking? I'm asking if you want them to be given the cold shoulder by the GOP. What you said has nothing to do with it.

Are these radicals, whom you worry about so, national leaders?
Do you think Bachmann is representative of the GOP? If so, why, other than the fact they're members? If not, then why do you harp on her as an instance to prove anything other than she's got some funny constituents?

Giving them the cold shoulder means keeping them more or less out of control of the party.

201 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:16:24pm

re: #192 Obdicut

Can you show how I'm extrapolating from them to the larger party, please?

Can you explain how the tactic of ignoring the radicals is supposed to work when they're elected to office, like Bachmann?

What does that have to do with what I'm asking? I'm asking if you want them to be given the cold shoulder by the GOP. What you said has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, so are Waxman, Rangel, and Boxer... Every fruitcake has nuts in it. Seriousely for every Alex Jones that is out there you can find six or seven Dennis Pragers.

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:17:37pm

re: #191 lrsshadow

Sorry, as someone who listens to Dennis often over the last few years, you don't know what your talking about. I would suggest listening to a few hours of Dennis, especially his male female hour.

His basic point is:

Man and Women are different and a better understand to our natures leads to better relationships. He has never once called for the subjugation of woman and to say so only shows your ignorance of his show and articles.

The problem is that a. he begins from a very dubious understanding himself of our 'natures', and b. he apparently thinks the rest of us need to hear about his ideas.

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:18:27pm

re: #199 lrsshadow

Another person who knows nothing about Dennis Prager^^^

I know enough. I've read his articles over a period of years, and the way he writes about women is, if not offensive, at least totally useless to me.

204 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:18:38pm

re: #198 ArchangelMichael

The "Shame on America for giving so much money to Haiti when there are people starving here" (or however it's worded) one almost got a few people axed from mine... if they weren't close friends that I have known for decades. I'll just ignore it and continue with my "i refuse to get political with friends" stance.

I didn't see that one. That's jacked up. FB is great for communicating, very quickly, to a large audience of people you know, what an idiot you are.

205 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:18:41pm

re: #200 Guanxi88

Okay. So giving them the cold shoulder involves making sure they have no committee chairmanships, etc.?

re: #201 skembo

You think that Boxer is in some way equivalent to Bachmann in lunacy?

206 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:18:44pm

The root of the problems lies in seeing "all" of a group or "none" of a group as something (racist bigot, anti-american, etc. choose your label).

A significant movement on the left has been trying to portray all conservatism as hate filled for a long time. A significant movement on the right has been trying to portray progressives as left wing anti-american commies for just as long.

Both sides look for and react to the extremes on the other side. LGF is leaning towards the "seeing evil on the right" for a variety of reasons. (Conservaties wanting their ideology back, liberals looking to be offended, people in between reacting for a plethora of reasons...)

Bad behavior exists and shouldn't be minimized by those who wish it didn't or don't want to see it.

On the other hand constantly crowing about how bad "they" are (whoever they are) while ignoring the worts "we" have (whoever we are) is just as intellectualy dishonest and harmful.

207 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:18:47pm

re: #199 lrsshadow

Another person who knows nothing about Dennis Prager^^^

Translation: another person who happens to disagree with you.

208 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:18:53pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is that a. he begins from a very dubious understanding himself of our 'natures', and b. he apparently thinks the rest of us need to hear about his ideas.

Which qualifies him perfectly to be an advice writer.

209 webevintage  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:18:59pm

re: #189 cliffster

How to get de-friended in Facebook..

Indeed.
Unless the person who posted it is related to you.
Then what do you do?

210 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:19:17pm

re: #189 cliffster

How to get de-friended in Facebook..

Crap like that drivel is why I steer clear of social networking.

211 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:19:43pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

Bah. I disagree with YOU now, but I won't fight you. He has his way of thinking that seems to work for him and the current Mrs. Prager. He is in a fairly small group of people who are amicable with an ex-spouse, so he gets extra points for that. His choice of words is often a little cringe-worthy, but he seems to be honestly searching for truth. Men and women are different; we appear to experience sex differently. When I'm tooling around in the truck at lunch, all I can get is Prager, Rush, and NPR. I would rather listen to Prager be wrong than listen to Rush say something I agree with. NPR is sometimes brilliant, sometimes really boring, so I just like Prager, even when he's wrong.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:20:05pm

re: #208 Guanxi88

Which qualifies him perfectly to be an advice writer.

I don't like Shmuley Boteach either. Full disclosure. I don't need to know what MEN are like. I need to know what MY HUSBAND is like. And he is the only person who can tell me that.

213 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:20:09pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is that a. he begins from a very dubious understanding himself of our 'natures', and b. he apparently thinks the rest of us need to hear about his ideas.

He's a talk show host, that's what he does... You don't have to agree with him, but if you listened I think you'd find you agree a lot more often than not. The bigger point is that he is seriously commited to trying to help people.

Mike

214 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:20:27pm

re: #194 wrenchwench

You can't honestly argue that there wasn't a decent chunk of people out there who hated the last president strictly because he was a white republican. "White republicans hate black people" has been a theme for almost 50 years now. Pro-closed borders? Racist! anti-affirmative action? Racist! Pro-Welfare reform? RAAA-cist! Katrina response? Racist! Iraq War? Racist! If you don't support more school funding it's because your an anti-science racist. Do I really need to go on and on?

215 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:20:34pm

re: #177 Merryweather

I have read it, and his subsequent articles on relationships. His basic point is: ladies, you can't change men, all they think about is sex, so you just have to put out and put up. And as he's telling us what to do if we're not in the mood, I have just as much right as you to say he's full of crap, thank you very much.

Telling you what to do if you're not in the mood? He's telling you his opinion on what men think. You may not need the help, because you may have a man who tells you what he thinks. I certainly let my wife know what i think. But there are plenty of men who hand his work to their wife and say 'honey, this is me, only better than i can put it.'

When you say to a man "when you do X, it makes me feel Y", do you like him to tell you that what you're feeling is silly? So a man says "when you do X, it makes me feel Y", it may not make you want to change whatever you're doing, but don't denigrate the feeling.

216 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:20:35pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is that a. he begins from a very dubious understanding himself of our 'natures', and b. he apparently thinks the rest of us need to hear about his ideas.

yes and apparently Charles thinks the rest of us need to read about his ideas.

Oh wait nether charles nor dennis is mandatory in this country.

Like I said you don't know anything about Dennis other then he is on the right wing and in the cross hairs of the LGF lizards. So therefor he is bad.

Sounds like Political Bigotry is alive and well on LGF.

217 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:21:12pm

re: #177 Merryweather

I have read it, and his subsequent articles on relationships. His basic point is: ladies, you can't change men, all they think about is sex, so you just have to put out and put up.

If I were his wife upon seeing that article I'd have handed him a box of tissues and a bottle of hand creme and said "knock yourself out".

218 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:21:25pm

re: #205 Obdicut

Okay. So giving them the cold shoulder involves making sure they have no committee chairmanships, etc.?

re: #201 skembo

You think that Boxer is in some way equivalent to Bachmann in lunacy?

yeah, Bachmann sits on the Financial Services Committee. Run for the hills!

Don't look now, but Inhofe's a minority member of the committee on environment and public works!

219 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:22:14pm

re: #210 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Crap like that drivel is why I steer clear of social networking.


As a rule, I restrict my Facebook friends to Real People (TM) whom I have met in Real Life (C). I am certainly not there to collect a list of names.

220 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:22:26pm

re: #207 Merryweather

Translation: another person who happens to disagree with you.

To say that Dennis wants woman to be subjugated is just stupid and shows a lack of understanding of what Dennis actual does talk and write about.

221 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:22:52pm

re: #217 DaddyG

If I were his wife upon seeing that article I'd have handed him a box of tissues and a bottle of hand creme and said "knock yourself out".

If you were his wife and read that article, Dennis would be wondering how you got out of the cage while he was out.

/

222 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:22:59pm

re: #218 Guanxi88

So giving them the cold shoulder doesn't involve taking away chairmanships or committee memberships-- they just can't have Michael Steele's job? They still get supported, funded, etc.?

That's a very weak cold shoulder.

223 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:24:03pm

re: #201 skembo

Yeah, so are Waxman, Rangel, and Boxer... Every fruitcake has nuts in it. Seriousely for every Alex Jones that is out there you can find six or seven Dennis Pragers.

People seem to forget that Alex Jones was virulently anti-Bush.

224 philosophus invidius  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:24:30pm

re: #188 skembo

I think we all know the biggest wackjobs in the planet LOVE to post comments on websites... Wait, does that make me a wackjob? Either way, using those to condemn Dennis is very ineffective to those of us who are not dedicated to a stringent ideology.

Well, according to Prager, it is a lie that criticism of Obama takes the form of racism. He doesn't talk about any cases, but only makes the general point that calling critics racist is a lie. According to that logic, it would be simply "playing the race card" to point out any racism here.

225 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:25:11pm

re: #80 Summer

That wasn't a very good Sarah Palin imitation... ;)

226 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:25:34pm

re: #222 Obdicut

So giving them the cold shoulder doesn't involve taking away chairmanships or committee memberships-- they just can't have Michael Steele's job? They still get supported, funded, etc.?

That's a very weak cold shoulder.

perhaps, then, you ought to draw up a list of party members to be purged to re-make the GOP into an organization more to your liking.

227 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:25:38pm

re: #219 ralphieboy

As a rule, I restrict my Facebook friends to Real People (TM) whom I have met in Real Life (C). I am certainly not there to collect a list of names.

That is my rule too, with a very small number of exceptions. It still doesn't stop me from having to read asinine shit from them almost everyday. It's fast turning into another Myspace.

228 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:26:36pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't like Shmuley Boteach either. Full disclosure. I don't need to know what MEN are like. I need to know what MY HUSBAND is like. And he is the only person who can tell me that.

If you had a husband who couldn't tell you what he was like, you might be grateful to stumble across someone who could. Prager might not be accurately describing your husband (we dudes aren't all that complex but we don't fit in the smallest of boxes), but he has accurately described a great deal of men. He's not telling you how to act. He's trying to give voice to men that are failing to explain themselves by offering explanations to women, not instructions. How is that offensive?

229 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:26:50pm

re: #219 ralphieboy

As a rule, I restrict my Facebook friends to Real People (TM) whom I have met in Real Life (C). I am certainly not there to collect a list of names.

I get emails from Facebook and classmates all the time from people I dont have the slightest recollection of, but apparently I went to HS or something with them. I just junk them all.

230 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:27:02pm

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

You probably want to avoid using the picture of Mel Brooks from _Blazing Saddles_ as an avatar after that happens though.

231 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:27:09pm

re: #222 Obdicut

So giving them the cold shoulder doesn't involve taking away chairmanships or committee memberships-- they just can't have Michael Steele's job? They still get supported, funded, etc.?

That's a very weak cold shoulder.

re: #226 Guanxi88

perhaps, then, you ought to draw up a list of party members to be purged to re-make the GOP into an organization more to your liking.

If you're willing, we could each purge each other's parties, although I suspect you'll inform me you are of no party, but, as an independent, reserve the right to purge the GOP.

232 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:27:13pm

re: #223 MandyManners

People seem to forget that Alex Jones was virulently anti-Bush.

The Alex Jones's of this world are virulently against whoever happens to be in power. That's their niche.

233 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:27:27pm

re: #218 Guanxi88

yeah, Bachmann sits on the Financial Services Committee. Run for the hills!

Don't look now, but Inhofe's a minority member of the committee on environment and public works!

Well played Guan. The point is that YES I believe Boxer is just as dangerous as Bachmann (more so actually). I can deal with a danger that is in front of me. I am not a Bachmann fan. Do I believe in "Creationism" no, but I do believe in Intelligent Design. Also, I do not believe in pushing my religion on others which is another point of contention. However I do not believe I should have to hide my faith from you so that you don't get that scared queazy feeling in you wittle belly.

234 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:27:38pm

re: #226 Guanxi88

perhaps, then, you ought to draw up a list of party members to be purged to re-make the GOP into an organization more to your liking.

What are you talking about? I'm asking you who YOU think should be given the 'cold shoulder', and what it means. It has nothing to do with who I want to be in the GOP. I'm asking who YOU want.

235 5string  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:27:41pm

I've only watched this dustup from the sidelines. I'd just say that those who have the sense to reject political ideology and prefer common sense principles of right and wrong can easily see who the ideologues are in this fight. Folks like Prager will never figure it out. But there's nothing wrong with pointing that out to them anyway.

236 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:27:48pm

re: #228 Aceofwhat?

If you had a husband who couldn't tell you what he was like, you might be grateful to stumble across someone who could. Prager might not be accurately describing your husband (we dudes aren't all that complex but we don't fit in the smallest of boxes), but he has accurately described a great deal of men. He's not telling you how to act. He's trying to give voice to men that are failing to explain themselves by offering explanations to women, not instructions. How is that offensive?

Women speak a different language. It's easier if you have your girlfriend explain it to your spouse.

237 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:28:26pm

re: #229 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I get emails from Facebook and classmates all the time from people I dont have the slightest recollection of, but apparently I went to HS or something with them. I just junk them all.

I should add, I restrict my list to people I have met in real life and with whom I would like to remain in real-life contact

238 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:29:02pm

re: #231 Guanxi88

Please see above. I'm asking for your opinion about the makeup of the GOP, and whether you think people like Bachmann and Inhofe belong there.

239 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:29:12pm

re: #236 RogueOne

ROTFLAMO! You may not have meant it the way I took it, but I liked it!

240 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:29:31pm

re: #237 ralphieboy

I should add, I restrict my list to people I have met in real life and with whom I would like to remain in real-life contact

People like that already know how to get in touch with me. Don't need social networking for that.

241 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:29:37pm

re: #223 MandyManners

People seem to forget that Alex Jones was virulently anti-Bush.

A lot of people on "the right" now seem to have totally forgotten that they were booing Ron Paul off the stage of the debates in 08 as well. I heard Rush refer to him as an "antiwar liberal/leftist" a hundred times, if he said it once. I used to laugh my ass off about that back then too.

Now he's a "prominent conservative" and a "patriot" opposing the socialist takeover...

242 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:29:41pm

re: #236 RogueOne

well done-

243 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:29:51pm

re: #232 Jimmah

please don't take an upding from me as a sign of impending Armageddon :)

244 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:30:00pm

re: #234 Obdicut

What are you talking about? I'm asking you who YOU think should be given the 'cold shoulder', and what it means. It has nothing to do with who I want to be in the GOP. I'm asking who YOU want.

And I told you I supported the cold shoulder to the freaks. Evidently, the GOP's actions thus far (supporting successful candidates, not barring them from committee memberships) fails to satisfy your standard. A purge might be the easiest, as you certainly wouldn't want them funded or supported in their fringery.

As for my opinion of the makeup of the GOP, I daresay that Inhofe and Bachmann are representative only of those whom they represent. They are NOT national leaders, and do not speak for the party as a whole.

245 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:30:22pm

re: #238 Obdicut

Please see above. I'm asking for your opinion about the makeup of the GOP, and whether you think people like Bachmann and Inhofe belong there.

Why are you so concerned with the individuals? Shouldn't your primary concern be your own representatives and how the parties act collectively?

246 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:30:37pm

re: #215 Aceofwhat?

This, from his Part 2 on When A Woman Isn't In The Mood:

Now, ideally, every time a husband and wife have sex, they would equally desire it and equally enjoy it. But, given the different sexual natures of men and women, this cannot always be the case. If it is romance a woman seeks -- and she has every reason to seek it -- it would help her to realize how much more romantic her husband and her marriage are likely to be if he is not regularly denied sex, even of the non-romantic variety.

He's clearly suggesting women should subjugate their mood/feelings and just give their other half sex even when they're not feeling up to it. It's an incredibly stupid thing to say, not just because a person should always feel free to do what they want with their body, but also because a man is not going to enjoy having sex with someone who doesn't want it just then. Feeling that sex is an obligation at any point is not a sign of a good relationship.

247 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:31:05pm

re: #245 RogueOne

Why are you so concerned with the individuals? Shouldn't your primary concern be your own representatives and how the parties act collectively?

No, because there's no cause for concern there. Pay Attention - there are only kooks on the Right - and they're running the show.

248 Soap_Man  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:32:15pm

re: #244 Guanxi88

As for my opinion of the makeup of the GOP, I daresay that Inhofe and Bachmann are representative only of those whom they represent. They are NOT national leaders, and do not speak for the party as a whole.

While you may not feel they represent the party, every time they go on TV, there is an (R) next to their name. And when they speak, a lot of people listen.

249 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:33:18pm

re: #248 Soap_Man

While you may not feel they represent the party, every time they go on TV, there is an (R) next to their name. And when they speak, a lot of people listen.

Tell you what - when the most Conservative member of Congress gets his party's nomination for the Presidency, you can be concerned about the tilt of certain members or factions of the party.

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:33:36pm

re: #211 keloyd

Bah. I disagree with YOU now, but I won't fight you. He has his way of thinking that seems to work for him and the current Mrs. Prager. He is in a fairly small group of people who are amicable with an ex-spouse, so he gets extra points for that. His choice of words is often a little cringe-worthy, but he seems to be honestly searching for truth. Men and women are different; we appear to experience sex differently. When I'm tooling around in the truck at lunch, all I can get is Prager, Rush, and NPR. I would rather listen to Prager be wrong than listen to Rush say something I agree with. NPR is sometimes brilliant, sometimes really boring, so I just like Prager, even when he's wrong.

I'm fine with you liking Prager, but it doesn't change my feelings about that article. He's being condescending.

I just want to know why these 'men and women are different' theories never lead to conclusions like "Sometimes she won't want sex, and you can suck it up and drink another beer." Then again, I assume that advice was already handed on by Uncle Larry. Just as, I have to report, the female version was handed on by Aunt Rose.

251 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:34:02pm

re: #246 Merryweather

That's Bull... He is letting women understand how men think, and react. You need to listed to some of his conversations on the subject (they are free to download on iTunes) before you dig this hole any deaper. His goal is to provide understanding into the one gender that he understands (men). No one is required to heed his advice, and there will be as many diferent ways to use that advice as there are people.

252 Soap_Man  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:34:14pm

re: #246 Merryweather

This, from his Part 2 on When A Woman Isn't In The Mood:

My girlfriend seems to be in the mood just as often as I am. Maybe he's doing it wrong.

253 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:34:53pm

re: #252 Soap_Man

My girlfriend seems to be in the mood just as often as I am. Maybe he's doing it wrong.

Ha!

254 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:34:55pm

re: #245 RogueOne

I strongly feel that having people like Bachmann as part of the GOP is damaging to the GOP as a whole. She's part of the GOP. She's not an outsider. And she says crazy, crazy stuff. The national party gives her money, supports her, asks for her vote. She caucuses with them.

I'm plenty concerned with my representatives. I've been working for years to convince a friend of mine to run-- as a Republican-- against Pelosi. He'd lose, of course, but I think he could force her to talk about things she doesn't want to.

re: #244 Guanxi88

Again: You've said that those on the fringe should be given the cold shoulder. You have defined this as nothing more than not letting them be in control of the party. Is that the sum total of what giving the cold shoulder means?

255 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:34:57pm

Regarding politicians being a half bubble off plumb, I think the water supply in Minnesota needs to be checked. And re-checked.

256 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:35:23pm

re: #240 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

People like that already know how to get in touch with me. Don't need social networking for that.


I just find it handy to have them all in one place. I am impossible about keeping address lists, phone books, etc.

257 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:35:25pm

re: #252 Soap_Man

My wife is in the mood more often than I am! see we are all different!

258 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:35:42pm

re: #252 Soap_Man

My girlfriend seems to be in the mood just as often as I am. Maybe he's doing it wrong.

Or maybe she's only in the mood when he isn't there?

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:35:59pm

re: #216 lrsshadow

yes and apparently Charles thinks the rest of us need to read about his ideas.

Oh wait nether charles nor dennis is mandatory in this country.

Like I said you don't know anything about Dennis other then he is on the right wing and in the cross hairs of the LGF lizards. So therefor he is bad.

Sounds like Political Bigotry is alive and well on LGF.

Oh, go to hell. I have disliked Dennis Prager for many years, and I haven't changed my opinion of him in the slightest because he and Charles are disagreeing. I was happily bitching about him on my own blog over a year ago about the Bush Doctrine. So stop fishing for martyr cookies.

260 Locker  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:36:06pm

re: #246 Merryweather

This, from his Part 2 on When A Woman Isn't In The Mood:

He's clearly suggesting women should subjugate their mood/feelings and just give their other half sex even when they're not feeling up to it. It's an incredibly stupid thing to say, not just because a person should always feel free to do what they want with their body, but also because a man is not going to enjoy having sex with someone who doesn't want it just then. Feeling that sex is an obligation at any point is not a sign of a good relationship.

Sure this is one opinion but should a man treat a women the way she wants to be treated even if he doesn't feel up to it? Why are all of the "rules for a good relationship" that apply to men all mandatory while the one or two things men desire for a good relationship seem "optional" to some women?

I can pretty much guarantee that I don't feel like doing 99pct of the things I do in my marriage to maintain the relationship but I do it anyway because I care.

261 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:36:22pm

re: #97 EmmmieG

Actually, I am about to expose what might be a bias, but it is a bias based on examples:

Adam Smith
James Clerk Maxwell
Alexander Hamilton
David Hume
Alexander Graham Bell
Alexander Fleming
James Watt
Etc. etc.

Being called Scottish isn't an insult anywhere that I know of. For some people, being called a Kenyan is.

Totally agreed. And now, the David Hume song :

262 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:36:26pm

re: #246 Merryweather

He seems to think that it's always the woman who's not in the mood or not up to initiate hot-monkey sex.

263 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:36:32pm

re: #254 Obdicut

re: #244 Guanxi88

Again: You've said that those on the fringe should be given the cold shoulder. You have defined this as nothing more than not letting them be in control of the party. Is that the sum total of what giving the cold shoulder means?

In this context, yes. They can't set the national tone, have no policy-making power within the party, don't control the party platform, etc., etc. Yeah, I'd say that's the cold shoulder.

Perhaps you have other suggestions, though?

264 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:36:33pm

re: #254 Obdicut

Why do you not just respond to one person in one post, dammit?? Posts do not generate carbon emissions... ;)

265 Mike in Boulder  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:36:49pm

This is the exactly the kind of thing that has upset me with Prager. He continues to tow the party line of the far right without questioning certain views that are extremist and dangerous.

266 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:37:02pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, go to hell. I have disliked Dennis Prager for many years, and I haven't changed my opinion of him in the slightest because he and Charles are disagreeing. I was happily bitching about him on my own blog over a year ago about the Bush Doctrine. So stop fishing for martyr cookies.

Mmmm, Cookies!

267 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:37:08pm
I agree with the late William Buckley that some of Pat Buchanan's views could be construed as anti-Jewish; I don't know who McCain or Lew Rockwell represent among mainstream conservatives; and to label Ann Coulter a white supremacist (or bigot) is slander.

Wow. Is this crap even worth responding to?

268 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:37:16pm

re: #264 cliffster

Why do you not just respond to one person in one post, dammit?? Posts do not generate carbon emissions... ;)

Makes it easier to get mixed up, and prevents his points being quoted and refuted.

269 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:37:22pm

re: #252 Soap_Man


My girlfriend seems to be in the mood just as often as I am. Maybe he's doing it wrong.

As Prager's been divorced twice, odds are he is doing it wrong.

270 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:38:17pm

re: #260 Locker

Sure this is one opinion but should a man treat a women the way she wants to be treated even if he doesn't feel up to it? Why are all of the "rules for a good relationship" that apply to men all mandatory while the one or two things men desire for a good relationship seem "optional" to some women?

I can pretty much guarantee that I don't feel like doing 99pct of the things I do in my marriage to maintain the relationship but I do it anyway because I care.

"A good marriage is a contest of generosity"

271 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:38:44pm

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Wow. Is this crap even worth responding to?

...he said at post #267...

But it's a good question.

272 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:38:56pm

re: #246 Merryweather

This, from his Part 2 on When A Woman Isn't In The Mood:

He's clearly suggesting women should subjugate their mood/feelings and just give their other half sex even when they're not feeling up to it. It's an incredibly stupid thing to say, not just because a person should always feel free to do what they want with their body, but also because a man is not going to enjoy having sex with someone who doesn't want it just then. Feeling that sex is an obligation at any point is not a sign of a good relationship.

So then how about Dennis's point in the article about mood when it comes to work. I don't think us men should have to go to work when we are not in the mood. (from the article) Also note that no where in the article did Dennis say it obligated.

Here is from Part one

There are marriages with the opposite problem — a wife who is frustrated and hurt because her husband is rarely in the mood. But, as important and as destructive as that problem is, it has different causes and different solutions, and is therefore not addressed here. What is addressed is the far more common problem of “He wants, she doesn't want.”

It is an axiom of contemporary marital life that if a wife is not in the mood, she need not have sex with her husband. Here are some arguments why a woman who loves her husband might want to rethink this axiom.

Here is Part II

"What if your husband woke up one day and announced that he was not in the mood to go to work? If this happened a few times a year, any wife would have sympathy for her hardworking husband. But what if this happened as often as many wives announce that they are not in the mood to have sex? Most women would gradually stop respecting and therefore eventually stop loving such a man.

What woman would love a man who was so governed by feelings and moods that he allowed them to determine whether he would do something as important as go to work? Why do we assume that it is terribly irresponsible for a man to refuse to go to work because he is not in the mood, but a woman can -- indeed, ought to -- refuse sex because she is not in the mood? Why?"


You should read both articles to understand that he is saying reasons why a woman should have sex with her husband even if she is not in the mood. He doesn't say it is in obligation.

273 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:39:18pm

re: #246 Merryweather

This, from his Part 2 on When A Woman Isn't In The MoodFeeling that sex is an obligation at any point is not a sign of a good relationship.

There are times when the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. My wife and I try to be there for each other. A challenge at time for her during our younger years (pregnancy et al) and a challenge for me during our middle years. The affection (if not always the action) is always welcome and should never be withheld for reasons of anger, manipulation or selfishness.

274 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:39:19pm

re: #269 Merryweather

As Prager's been divorced twice, odds are he is doing it wrong.

Point - Merryweather

Doesn't mean that all of his advice is crap. I can give the best financial advice you'd ever get, but it's very hard for me to follow my own advice.

275 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:40:11pm

re: #257 skembo

My wife is in the mood more often than I am! see we are all different!

give it a few more years.

276 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:40:12pm

re: #263 Guanxi88

So giving them the cold shoulder included funding their campaigns. That fits your definition of the 'cold shoulder'?

Man, I've got to get more people to give me the cold shoulder.

277 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:40:15pm

re: #274 skembo

Point - Merryweather

Doesn't mean that all of his advice is crap. I can give the best financial advice you'd ever get, but it's very hard for me to follow my own advice.

Maybe it's not about the advice but the mindset.

278 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:40:40pm

re: #246 Merryweather

This, from his Part 2 on When A Woman Isn't In The Mood:

He's clearly suggesting women should subjugate their mood/feelings and just give their other half sex even when they're not feeling up to it. It's an incredibly stupid thing to say, not just because a person should always feel free to do what they want with their body, but also because a man is not going to enjoy having sex with someone who doesn't want it just then. Feeling that sex is an obligation at any point is not a sign of a good relationship.

regularly denying sex is not equal to not wanting it "just then". sigh. you're reading INTO it. i need you to READ it.

If you regularly deny sex to your husband, and there aren't any medical issues, your husband is going to feel the effects. I'm not saying there aren't ever good reasons to deny us - he may need the punishment - but the effect is what it is, and there is no subjugation implied. he's explaining the consequences. you are free to accept the consequences.

279 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:40:46pm

re: #255 cliffster

Regarding politicians being a half bubble off plumb, I think the water supply in Minnesota needs to be checked. And re-checked.


It only thaws out long enough to check it once a year.

280 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:40:59pm

re: #276 Obdicut

Still putting words in others' mouths.

281 Soap_Man  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:41:19pm

re: #249 Guanxi88

Tell you what - when the most Conservative member of Congress gets his party's nomination for the Presidency, you can be concerned about the tilt of certain members or factions of the party.

You don't have to have the most conservative member of the party running for president. The more influence (real or perceived) the fringies have, the more the candidate will try to please them. Let's not forget who McCain picked as his VP, and more importantly, why he picked her to be his VP.

282 Locker  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:41:44pm

re: #280 MandyManners

Still putting words in others' mouths.

You aren't very good at it, maybe you should stop.

283 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:41:45pm

re: #264 cliffster

Why do you not just respond to one person in one post, dammit?? Posts do not generate carbon emissions... ;)

It's the standard at other websites I've been a regular poster at-- Fark, for one. Sorry, I know it's not the standard here.

284 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:41:47pm

re: #278 Aceofwhat?

regularly denying sex is not equal to not wanting it "just then". sigh. you're reading INTO it. i need you to READ it.

If you regularly deny sex to your husband, and there aren't any medical issues, your husband is going to feel the effects. I'm not saying there aren't ever good reasons to deny us - he may need the punishment - but the effect is what it is, and there is no subjugation implied. he's explaining the consequences. you are free to accept the consequences.

Since when does a man need to be punished by withholding sex?

285 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:42:02pm

Prager's article is just plain old denial. What a load of crap. This is why there's virtually no chance of the right cleaning up its problems.

286 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:42:24pm

re: #214 RogueOne

You can't honestly argue that there wasn't a decent chunk of people out there who hated the last president strictly because he was a white republican. "White republicans hate black people" has been a theme for almost 50 years now. Pro-closed borders? Racist! anti-affirmative action? Racist! Pro-Welfare reform? RAAA-cist! Katrina response? Racist! Iraq War? Racist! If you don't support more school funding it's because your an anti-science racist. Do I really need to go on and on?

I understand that Republicans are understood to be predominantly white, and frequently racist. But the claim was that this statement

there are those who disagree with him [Obama] primarily because of his race.

could apply as well to GW Bush. That's what I did not hear any of, aside from K. West.

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:42:40pm

re: #228 Aceofwhat?

If you had a husband who couldn't tell you what he was like, you might be grateful to stumble across someone who could. Prager might not be accurately describing your husband (we dudes aren't all that complex but we don't fit in the smallest of boxes), but he has accurately described a great deal of men. He's not telling you how to act. He's trying to give voice to men that are failing to explain themselves by offering explanations to women, not instructions. How is that offensive?

I've heard every trite, tired line in that article a million times, and if a woman needs to understand male psychology there are a LOT of better people to go to. I'm not interested in slamming Prager, but perhaps he is better at communicating with men about relationships.

288 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:42:40pm

re: #280 MandyManners

Are you going to hold Guanxi88 to that standard as well?

289 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:42:42pm

re: #105 Guanxi88

All well and good, but I imagine the proof of their marginalization is to be found in the fact that Prager claims to have never heard of some of these worst of the bad actors, and appears shocked at the suggestion that they are typical.

Best way to make a lunatic a mainstreamer is to treat him like one; give them the continued cold shoulder, though, and they stay marginalized.

In attempting to portray the nutcases as a growing and typical segment of Conservatism in America, you only accelerate the very condition you claim to fight.

Sorry for the late response, forgot the time and had to run out and fetch the kids from school.

I don't know who Prager is, but if he hasn't heard of Beck or Limbaugh, then he might want to be more then shocked. The lunatics ARE in the mainstream and the bit actors at the edges are emboldened by them. I don't portray the nutcases as a growing or typical segment of American Conservatism, but only point out that they not only have been excepted as players in American Conservatism (and yes, American Liberalism has it's share of nutjobs), but have been given a seat near the head of the table. I'm not sure how my response changes what has already happened, but I am sure it changes the dynamic of the dialogue.

290 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:42:51pm

re: #275 lrsshadow

Yeah... unlikely, she's two years older than me, and we are supposedly both out of our "Prime" by more than five years. Trust me I know the difference, I was married for 10yrs to my first wife who thought sex should only be given like a present on special occasions. This is troublesome too, but far better than the other!

291 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:43:23pm

re: #284 MandyManners

Since when does a man need to be punished by withholding sex?

When you catch him cheating on you would you deny sex?

292 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:43:34pm
I can pretty much guarantee that I don't feel like doing 99pct of the things I do in my marriage to maintain the relationship but I do it anyway because I care.

But sex is completely different from every other thing that goes into a marriage/relationship. When it comes to your body, your feelings should take precedence over everything else.

293 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:43:55pm

re: #280 MandyManners

Still putting words in others' mouths.


That is the biggest criticism I have of fellow Lizards. The "all of you guys think or say..." stuff is childish. I particularly frown on Lizards who spend their free time searching for bad behavior on the right (and sometimes left) so they can post turds and rub others noses in them. It is very Drudge like from my perspective.

294 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:43:57pm

re: #262 MandyManners

He seems to think that it's always the woman who's not in the mood or not up to initiate hot-monkey sex.

It's an article about what a man feels when his mate is regularly not in the mood. Ergo...it's not dealing with what you mention because that's not the subject of the article.

I love it when women attack men for explaining their feelings. Because you never want us to listen to your feelings, right?

All this talk of subjugation is just horse poop.

295 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:44:08pm

re: #128 MandyManners

Remember Biden saying that we're not accustomed to someone who's smart?


[Video]

Did you notice how Biden walked away when she attacked Palin?
He was smart enough to do that. :))

296 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:44:11pm

Did someone say something?

297 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:44:16pm

re: #243 brookly red

please don't take an upding from me as a sign of impending Armageddon :)

Ok, maybe just a thousand years of darkness ;-)

298 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:44:59pm

re: #254 Obdicut

I strongly feel that having people like Bachmann as part of the GOP is damaging to the GOP as a whole. She's part of the GOP. She's not an outsider. And she says crazy, crazy stuff. The national party gives her money, supports her, asks for her vote. She caucuses with them.

But you know you're biased so maybe you should take that into account when deciding to brand an entire party as crazy because of a few people. If we refused to deal with people we disagreed with then nothing would ever get done in DC, not that that's entirely a bad thing. I don't think the national republicans should single out bachmann anymore than I think they should single out Snowe.

BTW, as a registered independent who the parties choose to represent themselves is not my fight. I don't think it makes much sense to blacklist an entire party because of a few crazy politicians. If that were the case we'd have to remake both parties from scratch.

299 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:45:27pm

Am I in the right blog? Did I type menarefrommarswomenarefromvenus.com by mistake?

300 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:45:28pm

time to go say hi over there i guess

301 webevintage  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:45:30pm

re: #273 DaddyG

There are times when the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. My wife and I try to be there for each other. A challenge at time for her during our younger years (pregnancy et al) and a challenge for me during our middle years. The affection (if not always the action) is always welcome and should never be withheld for reasons of anger, manipulation or selfishness.

That is lovely.

We've been married for 25years and your experience echos our own.
I blush to say that right now is the best it has ever been.

302 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:45:30pm

re: #291 lrsshadow

I'm sure the guy'd only cheat because he was denied sex in the first place.

//

303 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:45:39pm

re: #298 RogueOne

But you know you're biased so maybe you should take that into account when deciding to brand an entire party as crazy because of a few people.


Show me where I have done that.

304 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:45:49pm

re: #272 lrsshadow

So then how about Dennis's point in the article about mood when it comes to work. I don't think us men should have to go to work when we are not in the mood. (from the article) Also note that no where in the article did Dennis say it obligated.

Here is from Part one

There are marriages with the opposite problem — a wife who is frustrated and hurt because her husband is rarely in the mood. But, as important and as destructive as that problem is, it has different causes and different solutions, and is therefore not addressed here. What is addressed is the far more common problem of “He wants, she doesn't want.”

It is an axiom of contemporary marital life that if a wife is not in the mood, she need not have sex with her husband. Here are some arguments why a woman who loves her husband might want to rethink this axiom.

Here is Part II

"What if your husband woke up one day and announced that he was not in the mood to go to work? If this happened a few times a year, any wife would have sympathy for her hardworking husband. But what if this happened as often as many wives announce that they are not in the mood to have sex? Most women would gradually stop respecting and therefore eventually stop loving such a man.

What woman would love a man who was so governed by feelings and moods that he allowed them to determine whether he would do something as important as go to work? Why do we assume that it is terribly irresponsible for a man to refuse to go to work because he is not in the mood, but a woman can -- indeed, ought to -- refuse sex because she is not in the mood? Why?"


You should read both articles to understand that he is saying reasons why a woman should have sex with her husband even if she is not in the mood. He doesn't say it is in obligation.

Oh, God, you're not helping yourself. Men go to work and women put out? On what PLANET? Planet 1953?

305 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:46:09pm

re: #291 lrsshadow

When you catch him cheating on you would you deny sex?

It's not about denying sex at that point. If you have sex with a man who's cheated on you, in the eyes of the law you have forgiven him and you cannot use it as grounds for divorce. BTDT. Or, rather, I did NOT do it.

306 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:46:30pm

re: #284 MandyManners

Since when does a man need to be punished by withholding sex?

If he forgot to put the toilet seat down?

/

307 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:46:35pm

re: #295 Blueheron

Did you notice how Biden walked away when she attacked Palin?
He was smart enough to do that. :))

He's not a complete idiot.

308 Mike in Boulder  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:46:49pm

The one thing I will give Prager is that from his Website links some 7-8 years ago, I first learned of LGF.

309 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:46:56pm

re: #270 Stanley Sea

"A good marriage is a contest of generosity"

I second that :) What a great quote.

310 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:46:59pm

re: #292 Merryweather

But sex is completely different from every other thing that goes into a marriage/relationship. When it comes to your body, your feelings should take precedence over everything else.

That is the most selfish, childish remark I have seen this week. Guess what my knees hurt and I didn't feel like planting flowers with my wife... is that good enough? How freaking sad.

311 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:47:21pm

re: #302 Merryweather

I'm sure the guy'd only cheat because he was denied sex in the first place.

//

No one stuck a gun to his head to force him to stick his penis where it didn't belong.

312 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:47:32pm

re: #148 Aceofwhat?

I read that same article and what I got out of it was: (Married) ladies, guys are guys. They are never going to change. They like sex. If you always deny your husband sex, don't be surprised if your husband pulls away from you emotionally and physically and eventually finds it somewhere else....so make sexy time fun!

313 kickstar1  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:47:42pm

You are convoluting the point Dennis is trying to make. When he says,"The charge is a lie", it is OBVIOUS he is talking about the racism charge, not the conspiracy/Kenyan charge which I'm sure HE regards as nonsense.

You then make an attempt to 'refute' his point by a comment a reader makes that has the Kenyan reference in it. That's weak logic and poor argumentation.

If you really are convinced you are correct, consistent in your logic and clear in your thinking then you will take up his offer and go on Prager's show. You KNOW he is not a 'hater' or 'right wing nut'. You KNOW he would treat you fairly.

314 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:48:04pm

re: #306 ArchangelMichael

If he forgot to put the toilet seat down?

/

*snicker*

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:48:10pm

re: #291 lrsshadow

When you catch him cheating on you would you deny sex?

As a 'punishment'? No. If I thought the relationship was over, obviously we would not be intimate. If we were angry with each other and needed to work out what happened next, maybe we wouldn't have sex.

316 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:48:13pm

re: #284 MandyManners

Since when does a man need to be punished by withholding sex?

I'm just trying not to judge your actions. The article is written to explain men, and offers advice if the woman feels that the explanation accurately describes her mate. I'm not saying (and neither is Dennis) that you aren't free to withhold sex...in fact, i'm scrambling to make sure that i'm not saying that. You're free to do what you want with your body. He wrote an article that isn't a half-bad explanation of what a man probably feels if you do X with your body.

Elucidating the consequences of your action and subjugating you are related like peanut butter and pickles. Some of us need to stop mixing them.

317 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:48:46pm

re: #310 skembo

That is the most selfish, childish remark I have seen this week. Guess what my knees hurt and I didn't feel like planting flowers with my wife... is that good enough? How freaking sad.

Is that what you kids call it nowadays?

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:48:52pm

re: #294 Aceofwhat?

It's an article about what a man feels when his mate is regularly not in the mood. Ergo...it's not dealing with what you mention because that's not the subject of the article.

I love it when women attack men for explaining their feelings. Because you never want us to listen to your feelings, right?

All this talk of subjugation is just horse poop.

You know, I don't know ANYONE for whom this is a major problem in their marriage. Why is that?

319 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:49:39pm

re: #236 RogueOne

Women speak a different language. It's easier if you have your girlfriend explain it to your spouse.

We don't speak a different language from men, we just don't think we should have to explain everything to the ninth degree so that men understand it. Try looking at a woman's body language, its a lot more telling than anything else. You know this conversation reminds me of one of my favorite sayings:

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

320 Fenris  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:50:00pm

Article:

It [calling the right fascist] is akin to calling everyone on the left a Communist.

Reply #2:

The left wing commie mind kkkontrol is alive and well, and very powerful.
321 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:50:05pm

re: #316 Aceofwhat?

I'm just trying not to judge your actions. The article is written to explain men, and offers advice if the woman feels that the explanation accurately describes her mate. I'm not saying (and neither is Dennis) that you aren't free to withhold sex...in fact, i'm scrambling to make sure that i'm not saying that. You're free to do what you want with your body. He wrote an article that isn't a half-bad explanation of what a man probably feels if you do X with your body.

Elucidating the consequences of your action and subjugating you are related like peanut butter and pickles. Some of us need to stop mixing them.

Since when is not wanting to have sex "WITHHOLDING" sex?

Why can't sex just be what it is?

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:50:20pm

re: #310 skembo

That is the most selfish, childish remark I have seen this week. Guess what my knees hurt and I didn't feel like planting flowers with my wife... is that good enough? How freaking sad.

Yes, actually, if your knees hurt, I might let you off planting flowers. I didn't realize that forcing someone to aggravate an injury was mature.

323 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:50:34pm

re: #319 Dragon_Lady


I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

In body language!

324 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:50:40pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems I have with Prager's thinking. And on another level, comparing going out to work to giving your spouse sex is completely ridiculous. First of all, if you don't go to work, no money comes in, you can't pay bills/buy food and you'll end up on the street, ergo working is something you have to do. Sex is something people can go without.

325 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:50:48pm

re: #317 MandyManners

Well played! still didn't address the question. Seriousely, saying "I don't feel like it, and it's my body so get bent" is an attitude that makes me think of a female dog.

326 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:50:58pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

I've heard every trite, tired line in that article a million times, and if a woman needs to understand male psychology there are a LOT of better people to go to. I'm not interested in slamming Prager, but perhaps he is better at communicating with men about relationships.

That is a perfectly valid opinion. Saying that he is trying to subjugate women is not. that's the gist of what i'm trying to say. This column does not make him a troglodyte, as some have suggested. Men will be the judge of whether he represents their feelings accurately.

Lord knows you won't catch me dead trying to tell you that columnist X knows or doesn't know how women feel. that's for you to judge. Always mystifies me why it's different when the shoe is on the other foot.

327 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:51:03pm

re: #312 arielle

I read that same article and what I got out of it was: (Married) ladies, guys are guys. They are never going to change. They like sex. If you always deny your husband sex, don't be surprised if your husband pulls away from you emotionally and physically and eventually finds it somewhere else...so make sexy time fun!

Because women don't LIKE sex, naturally, but they have to give it to hubby-wubby so he'll continue to bring home flowers?

328 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:51:19pm

re: #293 DaddyG

That is the biggest criticism I have of fellow Lizards. The "all of you guys think or say..." stuff is childish. I particularly frown on Lizards who spend their free time searching for bad behavior on the right (and sometimes left) so they can post turds and rub others noses in them. It is very Drudge like from my perspective.

+1 because I agree and +1 for degree of difficulty in using "turds" in a serious sentence and having it remain serious.

329 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:51:29pm

re: #286 wrenchwench

could apply as well to GW Bush. That's what I did not hear any of, aside from K. West.


...and half of New Orleans and Hollywood. There was plenty of racism and sexism leveled against Bush and the Republicans. In fact poular culture treats white males like "step 'n fetchits" from the 1990s through today. The notable exceptions are Bill Cosby, Hank Hill (in a weird sort of good Dad way) and Mrs. Doubtfire.

I'm not advocating returningn to Leave it to Beaver levels of white middleclassness, but a good balance between self parody and respect is always appreciated (Bernie Mac, George Lopez, George Weasley from Harry Potter, etc.

Having said that- "Kenyan" is about 70/30 birther/racist IMO

330 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:51:47pm

re: #319 Dragon_Lady

We don't speak a different language from men, we just don't think we should have to explain everything to the ninth degree so that men understand it. Try looking at a woman's body language, its a lot more telling than anything else. You know this conversation reminds me of one of my favorite sayings:

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

/if the fry pan comes higher than the shoulder I take it as a bad sign...

331 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:51:55pm

re: #312 arielle

I read that same article and what I got out of it was: (Married) ladies, guys are guys. They are never going to change. They like sex. If you always deny your husband sex, don't be surprised if your husband pulls away from you emotionally and physically and eventually finds it somewhere else...so make sexy time fun!

How about the MAN make sexy time fun?!

332 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:52:16pm

re: #321 MandyManners

Since when is not wanting to have sex "WITHHOLDING" sex?

Why can't sex just be what it is?


Lots of us have little better to do than to be obsessed with other people's sex lives.

We have our own sexuality, it is part of our personality and is as different from person to person as our personalities are.

It is related to our morality, but not the same, morality is how we deal with our sexuality, not how well we suppress or subjugate it.

333 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:52:24pm

re: #319 Dragon_Lady

As a man, I feel confident and saying, for the entire male sex that we really don't get subtle hints or implications until wayyy after the fact. So please, maybe don't explain it to the nth degree, but take it up a notch at least, and give us processing time.

334 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:52:37pm

After Three Months, Only 35 Subscriptions for Newsday's Web Site

In late October, Newsday, the Long Island daily that the Dolans bought for $650 million, put its web site, newsday.com, behind a pay wall. The paper was one of the first non-business newspapers to take the plunge by putting up a pay wall, so in media circles it has been followed with interest. Could its fate be a sign of what others, including The New York Times, might expect?

So, three months later, how many people have signed up to pay $5 a week, or $260 a year, to get unfettered access to newsday.com?

The answer: 35 people. As in fewer than three dozen. As in a decent-sized elementary-school class.

335 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:52:52pm

re: #307 MandyManners

He's not a complete idiot.

LIES!

336 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:53:09pm

re: #325 skembo

Well played! still didn't address the question. Seriousely, saying "I don't feel like it, and it's my body so get bent" is an attitude that makes me think of a female dog.

Well, if your wife says something like that, there are more problems in your marriage than lack of sex.

337 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:53:12pm

re: #313 kickstar1

He said Charles was slandering Ann Coulter as a racist, when it's obvious that she apologizes or sympathizes with the White Supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens in her last book. That's on record.

The point isn't that "every Republican" or "Every Conservative" is a racist, but all the ones who count as the prominent voices are all too willing to obfuscate, apologize, or diminish the trash they are allied with on the right. Dennis does the same in the article.

338 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:53:16pm

re: #285 Killgore Trout

Prager's article is just plain old denial. What a load of crap. This is why there's virtually no chance of the right cleaning up its problems.


You had me until sentence three. Since when did Prager represent the monolithic right?

339 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:53:38pm

Gotta' git.

340 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:53:39pm

re: #324 Merryweather

Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems I have with Prager's thinking. And on another level, comparing going out to work to giving your spouse sex is completely ridiculous. First of all, if you don't go to work, no money comes in, you can't pay bills/buy food and you'll end up on the street, ergo working is something you have to do. Sex is something people can go without.

To me it's just a strong suggestion that giving a man sex is how a woman earns her share of his paycheck. I find it interesting that he doesn't imagine a woman would ever miss sex, and can only understand his argument through an analogy with 'what if he didn't support you'?

341 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:53:40pm

re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I don't know ANYONE for whom this is a major problem in their marriage. Why is that?

you don't know any men who rarely get to make love to their wives? lack of sexual activity is not exactly the rarest of male complaints in a marriage.

342 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:54:48pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

No, doing things that you don't really want to do, because your partner (whom supposedly you love) does makes you mature.

I'm in there rare situation of having a wife with a vastly higher libido than I have. So I understand better than you think. I just think your self rightous attitude needs to be adjusted.

343 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:55:02pm

re: #301 webevintage

That is lovely.

We've been married for 25years and your experience echos our own.
I blush to say that right now is the best it has ever been.


Blush away- I find quality (which comes with long term monogamy) is as good as quantity. Although both are good when it is mutal.

344 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:55:09pm

re: #324 Merryweather

Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems I have with Prager's thinking. And on another level, comparing going out to work to giving your spouse sex is completely ridiculous. First of all, if you don't go to work, no money comes in, you can't pay bills/buy food and you'll end up on the street, ergo working is something you have to do. Sex is something people can go without.

Speak for yourself, because you aren't speaking for me.

345 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:55:09pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, God, you're not helping yourself. Men go to work and women put out? On what PLANET? Planet 1953?

Did you even read my POST? Hello?

346 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:55:23pm

re: #174 keloyd

Disagree? yes chide? yes Argue? yes!
Fight? no! He's just not Pat Buchanan. HE doesn't pick fights.

Some people, not yourself, look for excuses to be offended, like "give her body to her husband" being somehow evidence of being sexist. It is a perfectly normal phrase of the English language denoting sex.

It's pretty damned old fashioned way of putting things.

347 Soap_Man  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:55:24pm

re: #333 ArchangelMichael

As a man, I feel confident and saying, for the entire male sex that we really don't get subtle hints or implications until wayyy after the fact. So please, maybe don't explain it to the nth degree, but take it up a notch at least, and give us processing time.

To the Soap Lady after our last fight: "I have only one request. Don't tell me your fine. I'll think it's true. Meanwhile, you will just get more pissed at me. So next time I fuck up, just do me a favor and throw something at my head. Nothing heavy like a lamp, just something big enough for me to get the point. Like the remote."

348 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:55:37pm

re: #323 Rightwingconspirator

In body language!

There too! You and I are lucky, many couples never get the ability to look at each other and know what the other is thinking. Thats when a lot of relationships crash and burn.

349 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:55:45pm

re: #339 MandyManners

Take care, good talkin with ya.

350 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:56:08pm

re: #325 skembo

Well played! still didn't address the question. Seriousely, saying "I don't feel like it, and it's my body so get bent" is an attitude that makes me think of a female dog.

Yeah. In nature, if a dog wolf approaches a bitch who isn't in heat, he gets bit on the nose. Then he goes away and waits. We can learn a lot from the dumb animals.

(Oddly, I am largely of Dennis' part in that I feel that it's good for partners to indulge each other's sexual wants. However, he's not making it sound remotely fun for the girl half of this...)

351 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:56:18pm

re: #348 Dragon_Lady

Hey we got a whole new angle for Rosetta stone language lessons... Imagine the commercials.

352 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:56:20pm

re: #334 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Newsday allows those with a Cablevision subscription to view its content behind the wall, but your point is taken; it's been a flop, and a bad one at that.

No one is paying for Newsday content, not when there's plenty of content to be had elsewhere. That affects ad rates behind the subscription wall too - and not in a good way.

It mirrors what the Times found when they hid most of their op-ed behind Times Select; the hits dropped away and people went elsewhere.

Yet, the Times is moving back to a subscription based system targeting power users (those that read over X articles).

353 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:56:30pm

re: #324 Merryweather

Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems I have with Prager's thinking. And on another level, comparing going out to work to giving your spouse sex is completely ridiculous. First of all, if you don't go to work, no money comes in, you can't pay bills/buy food and you'll end up on the street, ergo working is something you have to do. Sex is something people can go without.

Yep - the comparison is ludicrous for all kinds of reasons. Resorting to parody now :

"Don't feel like sex? Well that's just too bad - it's your JOB. NOW BE A GOOD WIFE AND GET TO WORK"

It's no use saying that 'a good wife will make the effort regardless of her feelings', because a good husband should actually give a damn about his wife's feelings as well.

354 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:56:42pm

re: #326 Aceofwhat?

That is a perfectly valid opinion. Saying that he is trying to subjugate women is not. that's the gist of what i'm trying to say. This column does not make him a troglodyte, as some have suggested. Men will be the judge of whether he represents their feelings accurately.

Lord knows you won't catch me dead trying to tell you that columnist X knows or doesn't know how women feel. that's for you to judge. Always mystifies me why it's different when the shoe is on the other foot.

It's not different, but that article is about what women should do.

355 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:56:43pm

re: #325 skembo

Well played! still didn't address the question. Seriousely, saying "I don't feel like it, and it's my body so get bent" is an attitude that makes me think of a female dog.

Nice. That makes it sound as if women aren't in the mood most of the time. Not true. But when they aren't their wishes should be respected. Period.

356 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:56:50pm

re: #321 MandyManners

Since when is not wanting to have sex "WITHHOLDING" sex?

Why can't sex just be what it is?

It's not wanting to on occasion. It's withholding when it's prolonged. Any fault with that logic?

357 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:57:01pm

And in the end. The love you take. Is equal to the love you make.

358 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:57:05pm
359 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:57:17pm

re: #298 RogueOne

I don't think it makes much sense to blacklist an entire party because of a few crazy politicians. If that were the case we'd have to remake both parties from scratch.

Where is Cato? Its time for a Modern Whig commercial. ;-)

360 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:57:33pm

re: #331 MandyManners

How about the MAN make sexy time fun?!

He's too tired from working all day long.

Marabell Morgan, where are you?

361 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:57:48pm

re: #347 Soap_Man

To the Soap Lady after our last fight: "I have only one request. Don't tell me your fine. I'll think it's true. Meanwhile, you will just get more pissed at me. So next time I fuck up, just do me a favor and throw something at my head. Nothing heavy like a lamp, just something big enough for me to get the point. Like the remote."


Now think about it, women do a lot more child rearing, especially baby-raising, which makes them a lot more receptive to non-verbal and pre-verbal signals. Men often lack in those capacities. And those who are tight-lipped and reserved on top of it have an even harder time...

362 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:57:57pm

re: #324 Merryweather

Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems I have with Prager's thinking. And on another level, comparing going out to work to giving your spouse sex is completely ridiculous. First of all, if you don't go to work, no money comes in, you can't pay bills/buy food and you'll end up on the street, ergo working is something you have to do. Sex is something people can go without.

WOW... I feel sorry for her husband.

363 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:57:58pm

re: #358 emergencydoc

Flounce! First one I've seen in progress,

364 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:58:22pm

re: #341 Aceofwhat?

you don't know any men who rarely get to make love to their wives? lack of sexual activity is not exactly the rarest of male complaints in a marriage.

No, I don't, actually.

365 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:58:39pm

Pfffft!

366 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:58:39pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, God, you're not helping yourself. Men go to work and women put out? On what PLANET? Planet 1953?


I have to do both. *sigh* /

367 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:58:41pm

Oh just fucking leave for Christ's sake. No one needs a speach.

368 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:58:48pm

re: #342 skembo

No, doing things that you don't really want to do, because your partner (whom supposedly you love) does makes you mature.

I'm in there rare situation of having a wife with a vastly higher libido than I have. So I understand better than you think. I just think your self rightous attitude needs to be adjusted.

Prager did it first.

/sticks tongue out

369 Fenris  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:58:54pm

Again, article:

"The entire religious right" wants to throw "women back into the dark ages?" As a religious (Jewish) conservative, perhaps I am a member of that group, and I find the charge absurd.

Again, reply #2:

Another weak individual is on an estrogen binge and has caved to the insanity.

Too easy.

370 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:58:59pm

re: #340 SanFranciscoZionist

It's also making the (insulting) assumption the man is the sole breadwinner. In most modern families/marriages, the woman works as well. That doesn't seem to have occurred to Mr Prager.

371 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:59:01pm

re: #358 emergencydoc

372 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:59:11pm

re: #333 ArchangelMichael

As a man, I feel confident and saying, for the entire male sex that we really don't get subtle hints or implications until wayyy after the fact. So please, maybe don't explain it to the nth degree, but take it up a notch at least, and give us processing time.

Thats okay, it takes practice to get it right. That's why I don't think young couples should be in such a hurry to get married. I know many young couples meet, fall in "love" and get married within a very short period of time, sometimes within 6 to 8 months. If they would just slow down and spend a few years truly getting to know each other, their likes and dislikes, there would be a lot less divorces.

373 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:59:18pm

re: #358 emergencydoc

Why would Charles's "biggest fan" post only 16 comments in 6 years?

374 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:59:24pm

re: #345 lrsshadow

Did you even read my POST? Hello?

I read it. Did you?

375 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 12:59:35pm

re: #364 SanFranciscoZionist

Women make love because they feel loved
men feel loved because they're making love

And therein lies the problem entirely

376 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:00:16pm

re: #324 Merryweather

I think my husband would disagree that sex is something he can go without.

:D

377 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:00:43pm

re: #356 Aceofwhat?

It's not wanting to on occasion. It's withholding when it's prolonged. Any fault with that logic?

That's a marriage in trouble. They need a real therapist, and the best of luck.

378 andydp  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:00:46pm

I have to agree with the racist theme. Personally, I have gotten a few e mails from a long time friend that could only be described as racist: the Michelle Obama = chimp photo; a photo shopped photo showing the Clintons looking at a jockey statue with Obama's head on it. I may note in the 40+ years that I have known him, these have only started coming since President Obama has been in office.
There are constant comments by media pundits that push the envelope - Rush Limbaugh's Haiti earthquake response and making points with US Blacks; Glen Beck's Obama is a racist. I'm sure if you look at more responses you will find plenty of racist, birther, and what have you commentary.

The past criticisms of Pres. GW Bush, and I know there were many, called or equated him with anatomical parts or questioned his mental acuity. I do not recall them questioning his nationality, drinking habits, business abilities, or lambasting him for being a very bi partisan Governor. I do not recall accusations of "Socialist" when he unveiled the TARP program. Yet Pres Obama is called that every day.

For the record, I will say I think Pres GW Bush was atrociously served by his staff. I can think of no other reason why someone with his abilities would have done so bad. When the Bush administration was in power I kept saying they took the worst examples of the US Grant, Harding and Carter administrations and used them as a template.

379 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:00:58pm

re: #355 Merryweather

Marriage is give, and take. Yes, a man should respect his wife's feelings, but she should also respect his. So all that Dennis has recommended (did you go to iTunes yet?) was that both need to be aware of each other's needs. And, yes, to a man sex is a need.

380 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:01:01pm

re: #372 Dragon_Lady

True. As men get older we figure things out in this arena faster and I'm sure women adjust as well. I look back at the 20 year old version of myself and think I couldn't catch a hint from a woman about anything back then even if it fell out of the sky, landed on my face, and started to wiggle.

381 Digital Display  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:01:09pm

re: #284 MandyManners

Since when does a man need to be punished by withholding sex?

Ask Tiger Woods..
She won't even answer his calls now

382 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:01:25pm

re: #366 DaddyG

I have to do both. *sigh* /

I feel for ya.

383 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:01:36pm

re: #361 ralphieboy

Now think about it, women do a lot more child rearing, especially baby-raising, which makes them a lot more receptive to non-verbal and pre-verbal signals. Men often lack in those capacities. And those who are tight-lipped and reserved on top of it have an even harder time...

Now that's what I'm talking about! Don't listen to what shes saying, look at how shes saying it!

384 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:02:18pm

re: #191 lrsshadow

Sorry, as someone who listens to Dennis often over the last few years, you don't know what your talking about. I would suggest listening to a few hours of Dennis, especially his male female hour.

His basic point is:

Man and Women are different and a better understand to our natures leads to better relationships. He has never once called for the subjugation of woman and to say so only shows your ignorance of his show and articles.

Where the hell did he get his degree in social relationships from? When he starts that stuff I turn him off. He can't teach me anything about man/woman relationships and I think he should stick to world events.

385 webevintage  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:02:24pm

re: #340 SanFranciscoZionist

To me it's just a strong suggestion that giving a man sex is how a woman earns her share of his paycheck. I find it interesting that he doesn't imagine a woman would ever miss sex, and can only understand his argument through an analogy with 'what if he didn't support you'?

That's the vibe I get too.
Maybe it is just the way he writes things. No one owes their partner sex even if one partner is the caretaker at home and the other earns the money that allows them to have said home. Those are the give and take, not sex.

Which is too bad because we (both sexes) should understand that there are people for whom love/affection=Sex and doing it when you do not feel like it is not subjugating or earning a paycheck, its what you do when you love someone for whom the act of sex is what makes them feel loved.
That and pie, I make a lot of pie.

386 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:02:26pm

re: #354 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not different, but that article is about what women should do.

No, the article is about what women should do if their mate agrees that this article speaks for them and it's not how the woman wants to make him feel.

If i tell you that your lawnmower will work better if you sharpen the blades, am i forcing you to sharpen the blades? And maybe that's not really what is wrong with your lawnmower. but that doesn't make it bad advice, or subjugation.

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:02:32pm

re: #370 Merryweather

It's also making the (insulting) assumption the man is the sole breadwinner. In most modern families/marriages, the woman works as well. That doesn't seem to have occurred to Mr Prager.

I am the sole breadwinner at the moment. Maybe I should tell my husband that if he doesn't give me sex on demand, I'll stay home from work.

388 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:02:33pm

re: #331 MandyManners

How about the MAN make sexy time fun?!


Then she'll keep asking for it again and again. What am I a machine? /

389 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:02:51pm

re: #327 SanFranciscoZionist

no...I never said that but it's not wrong to think that for the majority of people men want it more than women. Especially when there's kids, bills, dinner, life gets in the way. Men see all that stuff during the day and thinks: wow, thank goodness I'm going have sex to look forward to and women think: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...but sex is an important part of any marriage.

390 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:02:57pm

Whatever, people.

391 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:03:16pm

re: #272 lrsshadow

HA! I knew Prager was more even-handed than the one link above seemed to imply. If he states clearly that BOTH parties are obligated to make reasonable efforts on behalf of the partner's happiness, in the sack and otherwise, then the troglodyte label is just more blogger hyperbole poo-slinging.

SanfranciscoZionist - If Prager sees sex-when-not-in-the-mood as an obligation on both parties, but preaches much more to women, I agree that is somewhat sexist. Not taliban sexist, but still not good. However, you should add points to his score for being open about it. Lots of people are more sexist than him but won't tell you to your face, like the racist who would never utter the 'n' word but pushes her car door lock button over and over in the car when a middle class looking black guy walks by (not theoretical, I was in the car at the time.)

OTOH, I'm still single, and sort of like it that way. Obi Wan Kenobi had a quote about taking relationship advice from single guys, 'who is the bigger fool, the fool or the one who follows him?'

392 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:03:35pm

re: #364 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I don't, actually.

Oh. It happens. This article is targeted towards that particular bunch.

393 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:03:39pm

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sure he'll be OK with that!

394 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:03:56pm

re: #388 DaddyG

Then she'll keep asking for it again and again. What am I a machine? /

They do have some fun things out there to help you out.

395 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:04:02pm

re: #375 PT Barnum

Women make love because they feel loved
men feel loved because they're making love

And therein lies the problem entirely

Ehhhhh....maybe. There's a touch of social conditioning going on there.

396 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:04:02pm

re: #381 HoosierHoops

Ask Tiger Woods..
She won't even answer his calls now

And neither should she! The philandering, egotistical P.O.C.!

397 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:04:04pm

re: #389 arielle

no...I never said that but it's not wrong to think that for the majority of people men want it more than women. Especially when there's kids, bills, dinner, life gets in the way. Men see all that stuff during the day and thinks: wow, thank goodness I'm going have sex to look forward to and women think: zzz...but sex is an important part of any marriage.

Studies have shown that people who have sex regularly have happier marriages, but I would guess they're having sex regularly because they have a happy marriage...:)

398 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:04:18pm

re: #331 MandyManners

that is true! Both parties should make sex time fun. BUT Dennis I think was talking about women who expect their husband to work, help with the dishes, help take care of the kids, help with everything and in the end get nothing for it, so don't be surprised if he looks for it somewhere else. Maybe women don't like that but it's true.

399 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:04:23pm

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

I am the sole breadwinner at the moment. Maybe I should tell my husband that if he doesn't give me sex on demand, I'll stay home from work.

Oh my gosh. Do you know how awesome it would be if my wife was the breadwinner and she wanted sex on demand as a reward? Who needs an afterlife!!!!

400 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:04:30pm

re: #362 skembo

WOW... I feel sorry for her husband.

Charming. Way to completely miss the damn point, which was that in life in general (i.e not in a relationship) work is necessary, sex isn't. So Prager's guilty of false equivalency.

401 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:04:58pm

re: #376 arielle

I think my husband would disagree that sex is something he can go without.

:D

I think back fondly to a casual quarrel early on in our courtship when he addressed his own right hand. "We have each other! We don't need her! Let's get out of here!"

402 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:05:08pm

re: #397 PT Barnum

that's probably true!!

403 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:05:13pm

re: #356 Aceofwhat?

It's withholding when it's prolonged.

When did we start talking Tantric here? /

404 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:05:14pm

re: #395 SanFranciscoZionist

That's been my experience anyway. I get a lot more private time with Mrs Barnum if I pick up after myself and help out around the house than I do if I just act like a sexist pig.

405 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:05:16pm

Don't be scared to click this, folks - despite the somewhat ominous title, it's really quite innocent (for a change!) :

My cat and turtle :

406 webevintage  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:05:24pm

re: #356 Aceofwhat?

It's not wanting to on occasion. It's withholding when it's prolonged. Any fault with that logic?

well unless it is prolonged because the partners are also part of a family with young kids and the partner not wanting to have sex are the person who spends their days and nights caring for the kids.
Then I'll admit I expected a pass for a very long time.

AND we all know of marriages where the wife not only works a full-time job but is also the person who cares for the home and the kids but is STILL expected to put out whenever the dude thinks it is sexy time.

407 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:05:45pm
Am I in the right blog? Did I type menarefrommarswomenarefromvenus.com by mistake?

BUTTERFINGERS!

408 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:06:27pm

re: #385 webevintage

... its what you do when you love someone for whom the act of sex is what makes them feel loved.
That and pie, I make a lot of pie.

I love you.

409 sagehen  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:06:30pm

re: #272 lrsshadow


What woman would love a man who was so governed by feelings and moods that he allowed them to determine whether he would do something as important as go to work? Why do we assume that it is terribly irresponsible for a man to refuse to go to work because he is not in the mood, but a woman can -- indeed, ought to -- refuse sex because she is not in the mood? Why?"

You should read both articles to understand that he is saying reasons why a woman should have sex with her husband even if she is not in the mood. He doesn't say it is in obligation.

So you're suggesting that sex is my job? And whatever he contributes to the marriage is my paycheck for that job?

There's a word for that -- a word so unflattering I would divorce any husband who called me by it.

410 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:06:43pm

Just my opinion, but if I'm having marriage problems, I'm not going to a political commentator for advice about it.

411 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:06:52pm

re: #386 Aceofwhat?

No, the article is about what women should do if their mate agrees that this article speaks for them and it's not how the woman wants to make him feel.

If i tell you that your lawnmower will work better if you sharpen the blades, am i forcing you to sharpen the blades? And maybe that's not really what is wrong with your lawnmower. but that doesn't make it bad advice, or subjugation.

Do you think there's a reason that all but one of the women responding to this has been strongly negative about it?

412 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:06:59pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist

Meanwhile, the left hand continued the planning for an unsuspected surprise at a later date...

413 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:07:02pm

Since I can easily refute almost every point Prager makes with ease, and provide backup citations and links the phrase "Don't Flame if you live in a matchstick house" comes to mind.

Wasn't it religious bigotry when Prager made a big deal over an elected muslim representative (Ellison) being sworn in with hand over Quran instead of Bible?

414 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:07:32pm

re: #400 Merryweather

No, I think the point is that eventually, if you completely deny your husband sex and he's constantly being shot down, then don't be surprised if you find yourself single again.

415 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:08:10pm

re: #392 Aceofwhat?

Oh. It happens. This article is targeted towards that particular bunch.

I think the marriage he's describing may need more help than this.

416 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:08:10pm

re: #374 SanFranciscoZionist

I read it. Did you?

Then how did an example of mood turn into sexual slavery for women? Also you should actually read the article because it starts out as;

"Here are some arguments why a woman who loves her husband might want to rethink this axiom."

Can't see this is advice on rethinking the axiom that if a woman is not in the mood she should should not have sex with her partner.

NO WHERE IN THE ARTICLE is it an obligation.

I thought with all the 1600 page books you read as a 7 year old you would be used to reading and understanding articles.

417 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:08:17pm

re: #400 Merryweather

Charming. Way to completely miss the damn point, which was that in life in general (i.e not in a relationship) work is necessary, sex isn't. So Prager's guilty of false equivalency.

No, I get the point, but you are wrong. I can go on welfare, so I don't have to work. I guess I can give myself a helping hand if that's what's required. The point is that a marriage without a physical relationship is a room mate agreement. I was not trying to bash you, so I want to withdraw my snide remark that you quoted.

418 webevintage  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:08:22pm

re: #408 RogueOne

I love you.

Now I'm blushing again...

419 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:08:28pm

re: #405 Jimmah

Don't be scared to click this, folks - despite the somewhat ominous title, it's really quite innocent (for a change!) :

My cat and turtle :


[Video]

Oh god, the cat doesn't end up doing the turtle does it?

420 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:08:31pm

re: #376 arielle

I think my husband would disagree that sex is something he can go without.

:D

Are we talking Essence and Precious Bodily Fluids again?

///

421 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:09:13pm

re: #411 SanFranciscoZionist

that's because too many women know it's hits waaaaay to close to home. :) Or they're shocked, shocked that there might be negative consequences to having no sex with their hubbies.

422 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:09:40pm

re: #420 SteveC

Are we talking Essence and Precious Bodily Fluids again?

///

It always comes back to that.

423 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:09:50pm

re: #372 Dragon_Lady

Thats okay, it takes practice to get it right. That's why I don't think young couples should be in such a hurry to get married. I know many young couples meet, fall in "love" and get married within a very short period of time, sometimes within 6 to 8 months. If they would just slow down and spend a few years truly getting to know each other, their likes and dislikes, there would be a lot less divorces.


22 Years old: engaged after 3 months... married after 6. Child 9 months later. 7 chidlren 15 years later (her choice my responsibility). Married very happily 22 Years later.

It's not the length of the engagement or age of he couple. It is their maturity insofar as understainding love is a verb and their willingness to work on it forevah!

424 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:10:04pm

re: #406 webevintage

again, i said there might be perfectly valid reasons. it was a narrow question, i provided a narrow answer. occasionally not in the mood is not withholding. prolonged lapses can be withholding.

425 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:10:06pm

re: #398 arielle

A lot of men conveniently forget that marriage is supposed to be a partnership. Women who stay home all day aren't just ladies of leisure, their cleaning the toilet, scrubbing the floor, vacuuming the living room, doing the laundry and on and on. My friends that's hard work! I work up a sweat on a regular basis and at the end of the day you think I've got the energy to do the tickle and poke? My back hurts, my head hurts and my energy level is about nil, and you want me to make dinner then love? Humph. Keep dreaming.

426 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:10:11pm

re: #420 SteveC

Are we talking Essence and Precious Bodily Fluids again?

///

fundamentals...

427 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:10:13pm

From a French cartoonist, Claire Brecher:

Woman (comes home):What's the matter?
Man (on sofa): Nothing
Woman: I know something is wrong, why won't you tell me?
Man: Nothing's wrong.

(Woman flings herself on bed, sobbs, berates herself, tries to figure out what she has done wrong, finally drags herself back into the living room)

Woman. WHY won't you just TELL me what's bothering you?
Man: I don't want to burden you with my problems

428 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:10:15pm

re: #420 SteveC

Seriously, did I ever think that I would be talking about sexy time on LGF? NEVER!! :D

429 jaunte  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:10:17pm

re: #411 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you think there's a reason that all but one of the women responding to this has been strongly negative about it?

Maybe too many women have married lawnmowers.

430 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:10:48pm

re: #414 arielle

No, I think the point is that eventually, if you completely deny your husband sex and he's constantly being shot down, then don't be surprised if you find yourself single again.

Which is completely reasonable. In any case, if you completely deny your husband sex, there's something badly wrong with with your marriage anyway. However, I'm talking about the now and again, once every so often kind of 'I'm not in the mood'. Which is also perfectly reasonable.

431 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:11:02pm

re: #415 SanFranciscoZionist

You think? //

432 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:11:29pm

re: #423 DaddyG

I met my wife online, chatted (in a forum much like this) for three months. Decided to have a picnic together (having never seen a picture of each other), and got married two weeks later.

Good times.

433 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:12:00pm

That's the problem with women these days - not puttin' out.

434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:12:03pm

These guys are a bi-partisan joke.

C'mon America. Let's just start over.

435 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:12:04pm

re: #411 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you think there's a reason that all but one of the women responding to this has been strongly negative about it?

Yes. You're unfairly assuming that it's more than it really is. Otherwise, I wouldn't be answering questions about subjugation (which this is clearly not) or about why occasionally not in the mood is not withholding.

i still love you and mandy, tho. you can spank me later for my insolence...

436 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:12:33pm

re: #420 SteveC

Strangelove quotes = automatic upding. Every time.

437 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:12:36pm

re: #425 Dragon_Lady

Being a stay at home mom is hard work, so is being a working one or any kind of combination, but at the end of the day it's all about either looking forward to some up close and personal time with your spouse or recognizing that your are giving yourself to (who is supposed to be) your true love and being generous will come back to you at some point in the future.

438 Digital Display  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:12:54pm

Someone said once..Marriage isn't a 50/50 deal..
You both must give 100% or it won't work.

439 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:12:56pm

re: #433 cliffster

That's the problem with women these days - not puttin' out.

re: #431 Dragon_Lady

You think? //

heh

440 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:13:10pm

re: #430 Merryweather

Which is completely reasonable. In any case, if you completely deny your husband sex, there's something badly wrong with with your marriage anyway. However, I'm talking about the now and again, once every so often kind of 'I'm not in the mood'. Which is also perfectly reasonable.

It is perfectly reasonable. Please don't think for a minute that I feel otherwise.

441 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:13:36pm

re: #422 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It always comes back to that.

You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company.

442 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:13:59pm

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

I am the sole breadwinner at the moment. Maybe I should tell my husband that if he doesn't give me sex on demand, I'll stay home from work.

Like you wouldn't stay home from work if he did give you sex on demand. ;-)

443 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:14:02pm

re: #440 Aceofwhat?

and the now and again was NOT what Dennis Prager was talking about...he was discussing the marriage where there is maybe sex once every six months, or never even.

444 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:14:03pm

re: #423 DaddyG

22 Years old: engaged after 3 months... married after 6. Child 9 months later. 7 chidlren 15 years later (her choice my responsibility). Married very happily 22 Years later.

It's not the length of the engagement or age of he couple. It is their maturity insofar as understainding love is a verb and their willingness to work on it forevah!

Agreed, but you and your Missus are indeed an unusual case. Besides most of today's youngsters think everything should be handed to them and don't want to work for anything.

445 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:14:03pm

oh this is fun

446 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:14:21pm

re: #438 HoosierHoops

Someone said once..Marriage isn't a 50/50 deal..
You both must give 100% or it won't work.

I am sooo happily single.

447 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:14:32pm

re: #417 skembo

Thanks for that. Yeah, but how good is your quality of life going to be if you live off welfare? Plus, there's only so long you can stay on it.

448 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:14:39pm

re: #419 RogueOne

Oh god, the cat doesn't end up doing the turtle does it?

Heh. Actually, it's the turtle that seem to like the kitty, but maybe not in that way. At least not in this particular video.

449 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:14:52pm

re: #426 brookly red

fundamentals...

See the ball, hit the ball.
See the ball, hit the ball.
See the ball, hit the ball....SWING!

*Strike THREE! You're outta there!*

450 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:15:22pm

re: #437 arielle

Being a stay at home mom is hard work, so is being a working one or any kind of combination, but at the end of the day it's all about either looking forward to some up close and personal time with your spouse or recognizing that your are giving yourself to (who is supposed to be) your true love and being generous will come back to you at some point in the future.

True, I concede the point. You got me. I was a little harsh but I hope you get what I was trying to say.

451 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:15:23pm

re: #409 sagehen

So you're suggesting that sex is my job? And whatever he contributes to the marriage is my paycheck for that job?

There's a word for that -- a word so unflattering I would divorce any husband who called me by it.

^^^ another who has not read the article.

His point is about mood NOT POSITION IN A RELATIONSHIP AND LIFE.... god what is wrong with you people I know you can read, but why don't you?

452 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:15:48pm

re: #425 Dragon_Lady

A lot of men conveniently forget that marriage is supposed to be a partnership. Women who stay home all day aren't just ladies of leisure, their cleaning the toilet, scrubbing the floor, vacuuming the living room, doing the laundry and on and on. My friends that's hard work! I work up a sweat on a regular basis and at the end of the day you think I've got the energy to do the tickle and poke? My back hurts, my head hurts and my energy level is about nil, and you want me to make dinner then love? Humph. Keep dreaming.

No question! The article is narrowly written. Men who expect to just come home, strew their crap about the place, not want to engage you in adult conversation, and then expect you to put out are NOT permitted to believe that this article is in any way about them. That's what i meant about "deserved withholding". We each give our part in order to receive our part.

453 brookly red  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:16:38pm

re: #449 SteveC

See the ball, hit the ball.
See the ball, hit the ball.
See the ball, hit the ball...SWING!

*Strike THREE! You're outta there!*

/are you ferakin blind? that was waaaay outside!

454 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:16:54pm

re: #432 skembo

I met my wife online, chatted (in a forum much like this) for three months. Decided to have a picnic together (having never seen a picture of each other), and got married two weeks later.

Good times.

Text me again baby! You IM sooooo good. /

455 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:17:13pm

re: #439 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well done FBV, well done!

456 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:17:20pm

re: #443 arielle

and the now and again was NOT what Dennis Prager was talking about...he was discussing the marriage where there is maybe sex once every six months, or never even.

exaaaactly.

457 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:17:38pm

re: #450 Dragon_Lady

I sound like a regular romantic here. Maybe I should have made little heart shapes all around my comment.

:)

458 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:17:51pm

re: #451 lrsshadow

No. of comments posted: 338
Karma: -437

Did you every consider that you may be doing this wrong?

459 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:18:49pm

re: #445 SpaceJesus

oh this is fun

Nice work over there.


what's this all about?
charles still runs a great blog, why do you paleocons think charles was on your side in the first place? you thought because he was anti-extremist islam that was against islam as a whole like you and your racist friends? is this why you're so mad and feel so betrayed?

...and the subsequent ones.

460 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:18:56pm

re: #458 SteveC

He's collecting martyr cookies.

461 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:18:58pm

Listen here ladies..

462 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:19:13pm

Doesn't anyone meet the old fashioned way anymore? I met my wife at a nightclub and we did dirty dirty things for the rest of the night and through most of the next day as well.

463 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:20:20pm

I do well over 90% of the housework in our house.

We both work full-time.

She does so little it is embarrassing (but not to her).

I knew it from the outset. So I don't mind so much.

And it's not all that hard.

464 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:20:33pm

re: #451 lrsshadow

... god what is wrong with you people I know you can read, but why don't you?

Honestly? I'm too busy reacting to reactionary statements to actually read the source material. Heh.

465 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:20:43pm

That's why I love "Atlas Shrugged", not for the politics...which is fantastic, but for Ayn Rands view on sexuality.

466 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:09pm

re: #459 wrenchwench


they seem to really like me

467 baier  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:15pm

re: #465 Oh no...Sand People!

That's why I love "Atlas Shrugged", not for the politics...which is fantastic, but for Ayn Rands view on sexuality.


I like both!

468 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:21pm

re: #413 Thanos

Since I can easily refute almost every point Prager makes with ease, and provide backup citations and links the phrase "Don't Flame if you live in a matchstick house" comes to mind.

Wasn't it religious bigotry when Prager made a big deal over an elected muslim representative (Ellison) being sworn in with hand over Quran instead of Bible?

What did he have to say about that? I just recall the flap in general.

469 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:25pm

re: #458 SteveC

hahahahahaha

470 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:31pm

re: #456 Aceofwhat?

At the very least, he does a very poor job of making it clear that he's talking about withholding sex instead of the 'I don't feel like it just now' kind. It's reasonable to assume 'Not in the mood' refers to the latter.

471 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:34pm

re: #425 Dragon_Lady

A lot of men conveniently forget that marriage is supposed to be a partnership. Women who stay home all day aren't just ladies of leisure, their cleaning the toilet, scrubbing the floor, vacuuming the living room, doing the laundry and on and on. My friends that's hard work! I work up a sweat on a regular basis and at the end of the day you think I've got the energy to do the tickle and poke? My back hurts, my head hurts and my energy level is about nil, and you want me to make dinner then love? Humph. Keep dreaming.

I would love to stay home and do the house work if my wife went to work. And I would submit to you that there are plenty of woman who work and do the house work and there are many women who do neither and expect their man to do everything.

And Dennis is making the point that many women on this post don't get. SEX IS A CORNERSTONE of the relationship to many men and they feel "not accepted" and "rejected" by a woman who "rejects having sex" a whole lot. This is for relationships that have sex less than once a week. Once again he is giving it as incite and suggesting a rethinking in regards to intimacy in the relationship.

472 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:37pm

re: #462 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Friend of mine met his future wife through arrangement of their parents. However, they take a poor view of the words "arranged marriage" being mentioned in relation to it.

Two nice Catholic families as well.

473 RogueOne  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:38pm

4:20, time to go home. Cya folks. Go home and screw your spouses.

474 Soap_Man  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:39pm

re: #463 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I do well over 90% of the housework in our house.

We both work full-time.

She does so little it is embarrassing (but not to her).

I knew it from the outset. So I don't mind so much.

And it's not all that hard.

I do all the cooking. ALL OF IT. But I'm not going to complain, if you know what I'm saying. :)

475 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:43pm

re: #462 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My husband and I met on line, through a dating sites for Jewish people. Which is had no problem with until during our wedding ceremony my rabbi said to all 200 guests "and I'm so glad they met on JDate, all my Jewish congregates looking for someone should go there..." you can see on my wedding DVD I just about died.

476 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:49pm

re: #465 Oh no...Sand People!

That's why I love "Atlas Shrugged", not for the politics...which is fantastic, but for Ayn Rands view on sexuality.

She certainly had strong opinions on what should rev a woman's engine.

477 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:21:59pm

re: #416 lrsshadow

Then how did an example of mood turn into sexual slavery for women? Also you should actually read the article because it starts out as;

"Here are some arguments why a woman who loves her husband might want to rethink this axiom."

Can't see this is advice on rethinking the axiom that if a woman is not in the mood she should should not have sex with her partner.

NO WHERE IN THE ARTICLE is it an obligation.

I thought with all the 1600 page books you read as a 7 year old you would be used to reading and understanding articles.

I think you've confused me with another poster.

478 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:03pm

re: #462 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Doesn't anyone meet the old fashioned way anymore? I met my wife at a nightclub and we did dirty dirty things for the rest of the night and through most of the next day as well.

They did a bad bad thing...

479 webevintage  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:05pm

Wow, I had no idea the tea party folks were pissed at Sarah:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

And in honor of my hubby who has been able to put up with ME for 25 years:

480 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:13pm
481 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:40pm

re: #421 arielle

that's because too many women know it's hits waaay to close to home. :) Or they're shocked, shocked that there might be negative consequences to having no sex with their hubbies.

I guess I just don't know these women.

482 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:41pm

re: #468 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry forgot the link for that last comment, here's Discovery Institute shill Klinghoffer making lame defense for Prager

[Link: www.jewishjournal.com...]

483 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:44pm

re: #458 SteveC

No. of comments posted: 338
Karma: -437

Did you every consider that you may be doing this wrong?

I am not here to win popularity contests. Only to make a point. Like usual people rarely like the facts when they contradict the point they are trying to make.

484 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:49pm

re: #425 Dragon_Lady

A lot of men conveniently forget that marriage is supposed to be a partnership. Women who stay home all day aren't just ladies of leisure, their cleaning the toilet, scrubbing the floor, vacuuming the living room, doing the laundry and on and on. My friends that's hard work! I work up a sweat on a regular basis and at the end of the day you think I've got the energy to do the tickle and poke? My back hurts, my head hurts and my energy level is about nil, and you want me to make dinner then love? Humph. Keep dreaming.


Dates are good. Get dressed up and out of the house. Help each other forget you are busy and tired. That gets our motors running. Perhaps our practice of a weekly date explains the 7 children?

485 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:50pm

re: #445 SpaceJesus

oh this is fun

Nice job on poking the crazy over there, SJ :)

486 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:22:50pm

re: #473 RogueOne

4:20, time to go home. Cya folks. Go home and screw your spouses.

That would be rape.

487 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:23:21pm

re: #457 arielle

I like romance! Romance is a great thing!

488 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:23:34pm

re: #463 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I do well over 90% of the housework in our house.

We both work full-time.

She does so little it is embarrassing (but not to her).

I knew it from the outset. So I don't mind so much.

And it's not all that hard.


A favorite German joke:

A wife is vaccuming, husband is sitting reading. She asks him to lift his feet so she can vacuum underneath. To which the man comments:

"Can't you get anything done around here without my help?"

489 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:24:07pm

re: #435 Aceofwhat?

Yes. You're unfairly assuming that it's more than it really is. Otherwise, I wouldn't be answering questions about subjugation (which this is clearly not) or about why occasionally not in the mood is not withholding.

i still love you and mandy, tho. you can spank me later for my insolence...

I think most women have been told all of this many maany times, often in a more condescending way than Mr. Prager sums up here.

490 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:24:09pm

re: #463 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I do well over 90% of the housework in our house.

We both work full-time.

She does so little it is embarrassing (but not to her).

I knew it from the outset. So I don't mind so much.

And it's not all that hard.


So from a male perspective what is more important? A clean garage or a clean bathroom? (therin lies the mystery that is man)

491 baier  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:24:17pm

re: #475 arielle

My husband and I met on line, through a dating sites for Jewish people. Which is had no problem with until during our wedding ceremony my rabbi said to all 200 guests "and I'm so glad they met on JDate, all my Jewish congregates looking for someone should go there..." you can see on my wedding DVD I just about died.

That's a great story. I know so many very happy couples that met online, but will only admit it after a few drinks!

492 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:24:18pm

re: #477 SanFranciscoZionist

maybe, but the point is the same, I think you along with other posters are taking this as an horrible step backwards in woman's rights, when really it is nothing more than advice for sexually stressed couples.

493 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:24:29pm

re: #483 lrsshadow

I am not here to win popularity contests. Only to make a point. Like usual people rarely like the facts when they contradict the point they are trying to make.

But what if the point is that you are obviously doing it wrong?

//

494 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:24:40pm

OT: Wendy's double pattie baconator... I love it...

495 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:24:48pm

Dinner time - BBL

496 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:24:53pm

re: #478 SteveC

They did a bad bad thing...

But it was so so fun. Especially once we actually managed to get to a room ;)

497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:25:04pm

re: #494 Oh no...Sand People!

OT: Wendy's double pattie baconator... I love it...

Coronary on bun...

498 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:25:13pm

re: #443 arielle

and the now and again was NOT what Dennis Prager was talking about...he was discussing the marriage where there is maybe sex once every six months, or never even.

I don't know about that. To me, that is a marriage where things have gone badly wrong. This doesn't sound like that.

499 doubter4444  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:25:15pm

re: #148 Aceofwhat?

Clearly you didn't read it, or well. He has a book about it - writing TO women ABOUT male thought and behavior. So as a male, i'll be the judge of his accuracy on this subject, thank you very much.

You're wrong on this one, friend.
The article is borderline satire, or at best so anachronistic that it's become satire.
Next I imagine he' suggest that women go to the doctor to be "cured" of hysteria by a vibrating gizmo applied under their petticoats.

500 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:25:19pm

Not a fan of the Rand. I wouldn't want to be the kids raised by Mrs. Ayn Rand, if she had any. Her notions of rugged laissez faire individualism are too close to selfish elitist anarchy for me. It's fun to read about, not a good idea to imitate, imho.

501 Macha  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:25:51pm

re: #100 Jeff In Ohio

You are so right. However, both extremes would miss out on all the fun of parading around carrying signs and whipping themselves into a froth of opposition all the while defending their action by telling themselves they are really doing something. It's hard to give up an addiction.

502 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:26:20pm

re: #493 SteveC

But what if the point is that you are obviously doing it wrong?

//

well most of the negative votes I have received are for debating topic, for that I don't care about the negative votes.

Some have been because I have insulted some posters. Those I deserve and have been trying to limit my insults to those who insult me first.

503 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:26:21pm

re: #484 DaddyG

You know, I like that! We do that too. Like I said, I like romance! Romance is great!

504 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:26:22pm

Moonrise is early today, if you are in the midwest and peek outside right now you can see it in a clear blue sky.

505 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:26:31pm

re: #496 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But it was so so fun. Especially once we actually managed to get to a room ;)

You wife sounds like a keeper.

I'm totally not being sarcastic.

Rawr.

506 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:26:31pm

re: #447 Merryweather

Thanks for that. Yeah, but how good is your quality of life going to be if you live off welfare? Plus, there's only so long you can stay on it.

Absolutely, and now we have reached the nexus. How is the quality of your marriage if you are more concerned with you and less concerned with "us"? Since this is my last post for the day (have a plane to catch), my first wife was great for eight years, but there were always times that the intimacy was not as strong as I wanted. However after the tech bubble popped and she had to get a part time job to help support our family sex went from once a week to once a month.

By the time I made the worst mistake ever, we hadn't been intimate on more than six months. I'm not shirking my responsibilities, I'm pointing out that this is not nearly as simple as "I'm not in the mood."

I know she wasn't happy with our financial situation. We had to sell one of our cars, and trade her BMW for a Chevy. She was having to work for the first time in her life, and probably wasn't feeling very sexy.

At the same time I had just gone from making a good six figure income to selling cars, and trying to pay all of our bills. Not to mention the hit my ego took by having to ask my wife to get a job too.

I am convinced that if we had maintained healthy physical relationship we would have made it through that time. Instead I get to see my kids everyother weekend, and wite her a check once a month. I'm happily re-married while she has had a number of loser boyfriends who have "borrowed" money from her and taken off. I'm back making a better living than ever, and she is a manager at a retail beauty store.

507 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:27:03pm

re: #500 keloyd

Not a fan of the Rand. I wouldn't want to be the kids raised by Mrs. Ayn Rand, if she had any. Her notions of rugged laissez faire individualism are too close to selfish elitist anarchy for me. It's fun to read about, not a good idea to imitate, imho.

If we all came into the world as fully-formed, self-sufficient individuals, then her vision would represent the ideal. But we all depend on each other at some point or antoher, she blithely ignores the need to structure the nature of our social commitments based on something beyond individual self-interest.

508 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:27:06pm

re: #503 Dragon_Lady

I agree. Three cheers for romance!

509 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:27:07pm

re: #413 Thanos

Since I can easily refute almost every point Prager makes with ease, and provide backup citations and links the phrase "Don't Flame if you live in a matchstick house" comes to mind.

Wasn't it religious bigotry when Prager made a big deal over an elected muslim representative (Ellison) being sworn in with hand over Quran instead of Bible?

No. Some references to Christianity in this country are cultural as opposed to religious, and that's one of them. I'm fine with elected Muslims. I expect them to respect our culture, just like i expect everyone else to.

(note that i'm against putting up the Ten Commandments in courthouses)

510 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:27:15pm

re: #454 DaddyG

Text me again baby! You IM sooo good. /

No, that wasn't creepy at all! ;-)

511 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:28:32pm

re: #499 doubter4444

...a vibrating gizmo applied under their petticoats.

Steely Dan?

512 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:28:58pm

re: #511 SteveC

Obscure ding.

513 webevintage  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:29:09pm

Bye all.
Gonna go make a lemon pie...really.

514 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:29:13pm

re: #511 SteveC

Steely Dan?

....and die behind the wheel!

515 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:29:28pm

re: #505 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You wife sounds like a keeper.

I'm totally not being sarcastic.

Rawr.

Once the guys at the barracks learned I was dating a Japanese model, suddenly I was a very popular guy, so long as I could introduce them to her friends.

516 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:29:48pm

re: #514 Guanxi88

...and die behind the wheel!

Just call me Deacon Blues!

517 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:29:48pm

re: #470 Merryweather

At the very least, he does a very poor job of making it clear that he's talking about withholding sex instead of the 'I don't feel like it just now' kind. It's reasonable to assume 'Not in the mood' refers to the latter.

Ok. I thought that 'prolonged' did the trick, but maybe it doesn't jump out to other people like it did to me. I appreciate the discussion with you, though.

518 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:29:59pm

re: #509 Aceofwhat?

No. Some references to Christianity in this country are cultural as opposed to religious, and that's one of them. I'm fine with elected Muslims. I expect them to respect our culture, just like i expect everyone else to.

(note that i'm against putting up the Ten Commandments in courthouses)

I'm an atheist and would refuse to swear on a bible if elected to office since it would be a pro-forma lie. I like truth and detest lies. Article VI of the constitution says you can't make me swear on a bible, and if you attempt to do so I consider it bigotry.

519 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:30:09pm

re: #509 Aceofwhat?

No. Some references to Christianity in this country are cultural as opposed to religious, and that's one of them. I'm fine with elected Muslims. I expect them to respect our culture, just like i expect everyone else to.

(note that i'm against putting up the Ten Commandments in courthouses)


When Bush expressed his support of posting the Ten Commanments in public buildings, some smart-ass journalist (who had obviously had a few semesters of comparative religion under his belt) asked "Which translation?"

To which Bush replied, "The standard one".

He did not elucidate, and one can only wonder what he had in mind.

520 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:30:27pm

re: #488 ralphieboy

Have you heard about the new kitchen tool? You screw it on the counter and it cleans your kitchen.

(I heard that one from my wife's father)

521 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:31:23pm

re: #492 lrsshadow

maybe, but the point is the same, I think you along with other posters are taking this as an horrible step backwards in woman's rights, when really it is nothing more than advice for sexually stressed couples.

No, I'm not taking it as a step backward for women's rights, but it's very old-fashioned, and we stopped listening to junk like this for a reason.

522 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:31:36pm

re: #518 Thanos

I'm an atheist and would refuse to swear on a bible if elected to office since it would be a pro-forma lie. I like truth and detest lies. Article VI of the constitution says you can't make me swear on a bible, and if you attempt to do so I consider it bigotry.

Was that an impersonation of a narrow minded a-hole?

523 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:31:40pm

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

James O'Keefe (of the ACORN video fame (or infamy depending on your leanings) was arrested in Louisiana with four other men. They’re accused of misrepresenting themselves as telephone repairmen to gain access to Sen. Mary Landrieu’s office.

Activist James O'Keefe, 25, was already in Landrieu's New Orleans office Monday when Robert Flanagan and Joseph Basel, both 24, showed up claiming to be telephone repairmen, U.S. Attorney Jim Letten's office said Tuesday. Letten says O'Keefe recorded the two with his cell phone.

In the reception area, Flanagan, the son of acting U.S. Attorney Bill Flanagan in Shreveport, and Basel asked for access to the main phone at the reception desk.

After handling the phone, Letten's office said, they asked for access to a phone closet so they could work on the main phone system. The men were directed to another office in the building, where they are accused of again misrepresenting themselves as telephone repairmen.

They were arrested later by the U.S. Marshal's Service. Details of the arrest were not available. A fourth man, Stan Dai, 24, was also arrested, but Letten's office said only that he assisted the others in planning, coordinating and preparing the operation.

Federal officials did not say why the men wanted to interfere with Landrieu's phones or whether they were successful. Landrieu, a moderate Democrat, declined comment Tuesday. She has been in the news recently because she negotiated an increase in Medicaid funds for her state before announcing her support for Senate health care legislation.


Dumb. Just dumb. And they deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law too.

524 arielle  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:31:53pm

It was nice chatting with y'all, I gotta go make dinner for tonight before the little stinker wakes up from her nap.

525 Soap_Man  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:31:57pm

re: #518 Thanos

I'm an atheist and would refuse to swear on a bible if elected to office since it would be a pro-forma lie. I like truth and detest lies. Article VI of the constitution says you can't make me swear on a bible, and if you attempt to do so I consider it bigotry.

Would you swear on anything? (Just curious.)

526 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:32:11pm

re: #518 Thanos

I'm an atheist and would refuse to swear on a bible if elected to office since it would be a pro-forma lie. I like truth and detest lies. Article VI of the constitution says you can't make me swear on a bible, and if you attempt to do so I consider it bigotry.

The swearing in on the Bible is not the actual swearing in in most cases, it is only the ceremony done afterwords by the elected official when they swear on the bible.

527 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:32:20pm

re: #499 doubter4444

You're wrong on this one, friend.
The article is borderline satire, or at best so anachronistic that it's become satire.
Next I imagine he' suggest that women go to the doctor to be "cured" of hysteria by a vibrating gizmo applied under their petticoats.

And i believe that you are wrong. See my post on lawnmowers. Please respond with something equally clear in lieu of what you imagine he would suggest next, which is about as helpful as another pair of armpits.

528 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:32:36pm

re: #522 skembo

Was that an impersonation of a narrow minded a-hole?

Nope, that's my opinion. It's narrow minded assholes who insist that everyone must swear on the bible.

529 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:33:21pm

re: #194 wrenchwench
Sorry, I had to leave.
Yes. How many would you like?

530 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:33:22pm

re: #507 ralphieboy

I think one of the annoying/cute things with small children is that they are obviously acting from total self-interest. The naivety of it is the cute part, the issues it can cause when such actions are disruptive is the annoying part.

I've also noticed the wide variation in ages when the child starts to willingly break from that viewpoint for various reasons. A few of my acquaintances over 50 still have not reached that point.

[Caveat: I don't have children, I just get to watch my friends and siblings raise them.]

531 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:33:25pm

re: #463 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I do well over 90% of the housework in our house.

We both work full-time.

She does so little it is embarrassing (but not to her).

I knew it from the outset. So I don't mind so much.

And it's not all that hard.

That could be the problem right there.

*sorry, couldn't resist, just kidding*

532 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:33:26pm

re: #513 webevintage

(*looks up expectantly*)

533 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:33:31pm

re: #528 Thanos

Nope, that's my opinion. It's narrow minded assholes who insist that everyone must swear on the bible.

Can I swear on the Apocrypha?

534 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:33:47pm

re: #485 Jimmah

Nice job on poking the crazy over there, SJ :)

operation finished. returning to hq.

535 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:33:52pm

re: #523 lawhawk

Yeah, pretty stupid move. I wonder what he was trying to accomplish. Weak sauce.

536 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:34:25pm

re: #528 Thanos

No, it's a tradition. If it doesn't mean anything to you, then so what. I don't object to your right to not swear on one, just to your tone. You are not an oppressed class.

537 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:34:39pm

re: #509 Aceofwhat?

Curious-How would you feel about a display that had the Hammurabi Code, The Magna Carta, the Ten Commandments and our Bill Of Rights?

Or some similar thing to put it in cultural context?

538 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:34:43pm

re: #507 ralphieboy

If we all came into the world as fully-formed, self-sufficient individuals, then her vision would represent the ideal. But we all depend on each other at some point or antoher, she blithely ignores the need to structure the nature of our social commitments based on something beyond individual self-interest.

I will go further, if not deeper. Many atheists (including Rand) have trouble conceiving ethics beyond a sort of utilitarian maximizing the total good concept. They see individual self interest and collective "enlightened self interest". This works, but only to an extent. Some kind of religious framework helps to be more altruistic. Even agnostics and atheists raised with Christian culture and traditions appear to benefit. Other things equal, We would benefit more from parents/govt officials/blog moderators who were atheist Unitarians over atheist Ayn Rand fans. Even non-theist systems like Confucian thought goes past Rand in their promotion of altruism in its many forms.

539 generalsparky  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:34:50pm

re: #502 lrsshadow

well most of the negative votes I have received are for debating topic, for that I don't care about the negative votes.

Some have been because I have insulted some posters. Those I deserve and have been trying to limit my insults to those who insult me first.

I like honest answers :-)

540 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:34:58pm

re: #533 ralphieboy

Can I swear on the Apocrypha?

Whatever's meaningful for you I have no objection to.

541 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:35:00pm

GTG! Thanks for the pixels!

542 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:35:22pm

re: #518 Thanos

I'm an atheist and would refuse to swear on a bible if elected to office since it would be a pro-forma lie. I like truth and detest lies. Article VI of the constitution says you can't make me swear on a bible, and if you attempt to do so I consider it bigotry.

Ok, fine (although i have good-natured love for atheists who feel the way you do...since God doesn't exist, what's the rub?!), but the only reason to substitute another religious text is for religious reasons. And that, my friend, is crossing the line.

not wanting to use a cultural symbol and wanting to substitute our cultural symbol with your religious symbol ain't cool, and i'm not a bigot for saying so.

543 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:35:23pm

re: #519 ralphieboy

When Bush expressed his support of posting the Ten Commanments in public buildings, some smart-ass journalist (who had obviously had a few semesters of comparative religion under his belt) asked "Which translation?"

To which Bush replied, "The standard one".

He did not elucidate, and one can only wonder what he had in mind.


I love messing with peoples minds when they say they only believe in the King James Version. I ask "which one, 1611, Authorized or Standardized?"

544 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:35:36pm

re: #533 ralphieboy

Can I swear on the Apocrypha?

And why not?

I was present when a hindu was raised up a mason. We ended up having to use the Gita 'cause the vedantic stuff wouldn't fit on the altar. He was a good sport about it.

545 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:35:56pm

POSTING AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S SO TRUE AND FUNNY...

The Texas Work Force Department claimed he was not paying proper wages to his help,and sent an agent out to interview him.
"I need a list of your employees, and how much you pay them," demanded the agent.
"Well," replied the rancher, "there's my farm hand, who's been with me for 3 years. I pay him $200 a week plus free ...room and board. The cook has been here for 18 months, and I pay her $150 per week, plus free room and board.
Then there's the half-wit. He works about 18 hours every day and does about 90% of all the work around here. He makes $10 per week, pays his own room and board, and I buy him a bottle of bourbon every Saturday night. He also sleeps with my wife occasionally."
"That's the guy I want to talk to.. to the half-wit," said the agent.
The rancher replied,

"That would be me."

546 sagehen  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:36:05pm

re: #414 arielle

No, I think the point is that eventually, if you completely deny your husband sex and he's constantly being shot down, then don't be surprised if you find yourself single again.

If you never feel like having sex with him, you'd probably prefer to find yourself single again.

547 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:36:06pm

re: #536 skembo

You are a mind reader that you can detect tone through the electrons and pixels of the internet? I suggest rather that you find offense where none was offered.

548 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:36:56pm

re: #530 oaktree

I think one of the annoying/cute things with small children is that they are obviously acting from total self-interest. The naivety of it is the cute part, the issues it can cause when such actions are disruptive is the annoying part.

I've also noticed the wide variation in ages when the child starts to willingly break from that viewpoint for various reasons. A few of my acquaintances over 50 still have not reached that point.

[Caveat: I don't have children, I just get to watch my friends and siblings raise them.]

Right now, the most difficult thing to teach my kids is that "I want/joice/milk/a cookie/a snack, etc". is a statement of fact and will be duly noted but will not result in the child being served until they phrase it as a request with "please" in it somewhere.

Lots of people seem to grow to adulthood without learning that one, either, I can only assume it is reinforced by parents who resond to such demands.

549 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:37:00pm

re: #537 Rightwingconspirator

Curious-How would you feel about a display that had the Hammurabi Code, The Magna Carta, the Ten Commandments and our Bill Of Rights?

Or some similar thing to put it in cultural context?

Like honoring the folks that provided such things and which is found here?

550 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:37:13pm

re: #523 lawhawk

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

James O'Keefe (of the ACORN video fame (or infamy depending on your leanings) was arrested in Louisiana with four other men. They’re accused of misrepresenting themselves as telephone repairmen to gain access to Sen. Mary Landrieu’s office.
...

Dumb. Just dumb. And they deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law too.

Moron. All the publicity made him forget to stop and ask, "gee, I wonder if this is illegal"

551 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:38:07pm

re: #542 Aceofwhat?

I just have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of the folk swear on the Bible for religious reasons, and not because it's a cultural symbol.

552 skembo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:38:21pm

re: #547 Thanos

If I intonated your verbiage in my head incorrectly I'm sorry. This time I REALLY HAVE TO GO!

Have fun!

553 Merryweather  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:38:36pm

Gotta run, BBL.

554 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:38:45pm

re: #546 sagehen

There are many many sad marriages that are simply financial arrangements. Sad, but true. From both parties.

555 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:38:49pm

re: #538 keloyd

I will go further, if not deeper. Many atheists (including Rand) have trouble conceiving ethics beyond a sort of utilitarian maximizing the total good concept. They see individual self interest and collective "enlightened self interest". This works, but only to an extent. Some kind of religious framework helps to be more altruistic. Even agnostics and atheists raised with Christian culture and traditions appear to benefit. Other things equal, We would benefit more from parents/govt officials/blog moderators who were atheist Unitarians over atheist Ayn Rand fans. Even non-theist systems like Confucian thought goes past Rand in their promotion of altruism in its many forms.


In other words, how can you have "enlightened self-interest" without first the enlightenment?

556 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:38:59pm

Must be getting close to 5:00 somewhere.

557 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:39:45pm

re: #555 ralphieboy

In other words, how can you have "enlightened self-interest" without first the enlightenment?

Folks, the Illluminati have just shown their black hand!

558 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:39:53pm

re: #537 Rightwingconspirator

Curious-How would you feel about a display that had the Hammurabi Code, The Magna Carta, the Ten Commandments and our Bill Of Rights?

Or some similar thing to put it in cultural context?

Ambivalent. I'm mostly a christian who wants my government to stay the hell outta my belief system. Separation of church and state is here to protect me as much as it is to protect the state from me.

I swear, the next politician who tells us what Jesus would do in this instance or that instance is going to find me at their next rally in a paper mache outfit.

559 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:40:35pm

re: #551 oaktree

I just have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of the folk swear on the Bible for religious reasons, and not because it's a cultural symbol.


Swearing on a book isn't going to make one bit of a difference in my honesty. Swearing to God directly will, but only He knows when I promise Him something.

560 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:40:41pm

re: #557 Guanxi88

Folks, the Illluminati have just shown their black hand!

I am just a hod carrier for the Freemasons

/

561 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:40:46pm

re: #558 Aceofwhat?

Jesus would have turned the other cheek after 9/11

562 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:41:17pm

Just keep the Necronomicon out of it, and we'll be fine... /

563 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:41:41pm

re: #560 ralphieboy

I am just a hod carrier for the Freemasons

/

You poor widow's son, you.

(Rapidly completes a series of bizarre and arcane hand signs with ralphieboy.)

564 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:41:59pm

re: #561 cliffster

Jesus would have turned the other cheek after 9/11


But his dad would've smitten the Enemies of Irsael...

565 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:42:00pm

re: #551 oaktree

I just have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of the folk swear on the Bible for religious reasons, and not because it's a cultural symbol.

Could be. Take the bible away and they're still swearing for the same religious reasons. It's nothing in the ceremony but a cultural symbol, one that can be politely refused but not replaced, IMO.

566 Macha  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:42:04pm

re: #438 HoosierHoops

Someone said once..Marriage isn't a 50/50 deal..
You both must give 100% or it won't work.

And it's hard work.

567 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:42:33pm

re: #529 tradewind

Sorry, I had to leave.
Yes. How many would you like?

No problem, I left for a bit also.

How about three?

568 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:42:36pm

re: #562 lawhawk

Yog! Sothhoth!

569 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:42:44pm

re: #521 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I'm not taking it as a step backward for women's rights, but it's very old-fashioned, and we stopped listening to junk like this for a reason.

Well here is how I look at it, many divorces happen due to sex or money. I don't consider this anywhere out of line as he also has an article dealing with men who are not in the mood when the woman is. Therefor he is not just dealing one side of this issue in his articles.

All the article is trying to do is have the axiom "if I am not in the mood I should not and ought not have sex" rethought. I think it is entirely unfair for either person to have to go with little or no sex because the other thinks it is not right unless they are in the mood.

If you listened to Dennis you would know that he says many times that he thinks it is good for the relationship to have intimate time even if one or both are not in the mood. Those couple who have regular sex are statistically happier and less likely to get divorced.

570 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:43:00pm

re: #561 cliffster

Jesus would have turned the other cheek after 9/11

And He told you that or are you putting words into His mouth? No offense intended but I'm kinda curious... Don't forget men wrote the bible, not Jesus. And most of it was written many, many years after his death...

571 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:43:03pm

re: #559 DaddyG

I concur that the book is meaningless. You are only as good as your word, and that is dependent on your character. And, unfortunately, reputation and character are not the same thing and reputation travels farther and faster.

572 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:43:05pm

re: #563 Guanxi88

You poor widow's son, you.

(Rapidly completes a series of bizarre and arcane hand signs with ralphieboy.)

(Slips DaddyG the grip, and they all three retire to the Blue Dragon Tavern.)

573 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:43:48pm

re: #566 Macha

And it's hard work.

Problem with a partnership is that like a democracy, there must be a majority party and an opposition. Success lies in how well they cooperate.

But I admit, I was the minority party, and our marriage ended in an ongoing filibuster...

574 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:43:53pm

re: #561 cliffster

Jesus would have turned the other cheek after 9/11

I rather doubt it.

575 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:44:27pm

re: #562 lawhawk

Just keep the Necronomicon out of it, and we'll be fine... /

This Necronomicon?

heheh.

576 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:44:27pm

re: #574 Spare O'Lake

Me too!

577 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:44:31pm

re: #562 lawhawk

Just keep the Necronomicon out of it, and we'll be fine... /

This...is...my...BOOMSTICK!

578 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:44:44pm

re: #565 Aceofwhat?

Or the book (or a book) can be removed completely. A public vow doesn't require any religious trappings, cultural or not.

579 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:44:54pm

re: #570 Dragon_Lady

And He told you that or are you putting words into His mouth? No offense intended but I'm kinda curious... Don't forget men wrote the bible, not Jesus. And most of it was written many, many years after his death...

Matthew 5:38-40

580 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:45:11pm

re: #549 lawhawk

Interesting piece, but why no Moses? "Muhammad" made the cut...

581 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:45:53pm

re: #574 Spare O'Lake

I rather doubt it.

See #564

582 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:46:15pm

re: #580 Rightwingconspirator

Because he dropped and broke one of the tablets. His reputation would have been much higher if he'd kept proper hold of all fifteen commandments...

//

583 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:46:21pm

re: #580 Rightwingconspirator

Interesting piece, but why no Moses? "Muhammad" made the cut...

No, Moses is there.

584 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:47:00pm

re: #582 oaktree

Because he dropped and broke one of the tablets. His reputation would have been much higher if he'd kept proper hold of all fifteen commandments...

//

I see you attended Dr. Brooks' lectures on history, too.

585 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:47:44pm

re: #584 Guanxi88

His predictions about the Space Race were quite interesting as well.

586 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:47:53pm

General advice on intimacy in marriage is almost useless. Frequency and desire are influenced by a lot of factors including age, fatigue, time alone, affection, recovery from abuse, pregnancy, morning sickness, general health, kids... Abuse recovery is hard to deal with. Patience is the watch word there. No one should have to feel intimacy is an obligation, ever. Even the Biblical admonitions for intimacy come with mitigating factors for health and time to fast and pray (spiritual pursuits).

587 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:48:02pm

re: #561 cliffster
A Pet peeve of mine is how these little delicate, waif like portrayals of Jesus turn the other cheek in movies, like battered women on the Lifetime network. You have to stay on your feet and look your enemy in the eye and show some backbone to turn the other cheek properly, not just go limp. Turning of the other cheek is not akin to weakness or cowardice, if you're doing it right, imho.

588 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:48:17pm

re: #574 Spare O'Lake

I rather doubt it.


I believe that there are times when we must take other's lives, but we are not doing it in God's name or according to his will, we are doing it out of our own human necessity.

I believe God is most always displeased at our failings as humans when we allow things to come to the point that we must take some people's lives in order to save others'.

589 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:48:33pm

re: #579 cliffster

Don't forget that most if not all of it was written hundreds of years after Christs death and the witnesses that were there were also dead. We have no real way to know unless the Lord himself sat down and wrote the words. And even then how to prove that? I'm not trying to give offense, just trying to understand your reasoning.

590 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:48:42pm

re: #388 DaddyG

Then she'll keep asking for it again and again. What am I a machine? /


You have 7 kidlets and you are asking us? :)) /

591 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:48:59pm

re: #578 oaktree

Or the book (or a book) can be removed completely. A public vow doesn't require any religious trappings, cultural or not.

at the expense of our culture. denying that we should weaken the wall between church and state feels dangerous. denying that the founding of this country and most of our institutions are intertwined with a JudeoChristian culture is revisionist. neither suit me.

592 Soap_Man  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:49:01pm

re: #578 oaktree

Or the book (or a book) can be removed completely. A public vow doesn't require any religious trappings, cultural or not.

From The West Wing, with Alan Alda playing Arnie Vinick, Republican Senator from California:

"I don't see how we can have a separation of church and state in this government if you have to pass a religious test to get in this government. And I want to warn everyone in the press and all the voters out there if you demand expressions of religious faith from politicians, you are just begging to be lied to. They won't all lie to you but a lot of them will. And it will be the easiest lie they ever had to tell to get your votes. So, every day until the end of this campaign, I'll answer any question anyone has on government, But if you have a question on religion, please go to church."

593 Bourdain's Breakfast  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:49:23pm

Longtime lurker, first time poster!

594 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:50:02pm

re: #582 oaktree

My favorite was #15.
When in doubt, see one through fourteen.
Heh.

595 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:50:06pm

re: #556 cliffster

Must be getting close to 5:00 somewhere.

LGF: The Night Shift

596 AK-47%  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:50:17pm

re: #593 Bourdain's Breakfast

Longtime lurker, first time poster!

sex,religion, politics, it's all there in this thread, take a shot!

597 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:50:27pm

re: #583 Guanxi88

Oh, just not listed. Whoops.

598 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:50:48pm

re: #596 ralphieboy

sex,religion, politics, it's all there in this thread, take a shot!

don't forget relationship advice. Lots of that

599 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:50:52pm

re: #593 Bourdain's Breakfast

Welcome!

600 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:51:25pm

re: #596 ralphieboy

sex,religion, politics, it's all there in this thread, take a shot!

...A show with everything but Yul Brenner! :)

601 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:51:48pm

re: #571 oaktree

I concur that the book is meaningless. You are only as good as your word, and that is dependent on your character. And, unfortunately, reputation and character are not the same thing and reputation travels farther and faster.

The Book (in its many translations) is full of inspired counsel from God. I just don't think it is a magical talisman. I get really upset when people start worshiping the Bible and forget the God who gave it to them. (Opinions are mine your mileage may differ)

602 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:51:52pm

re: #593 Bourdain's Breakfast

Longtime lurker, first time poster!

Welcome, hatchling.

/OMG! Somebody left the door open!

603 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:52:33pm

re: #589 Dragon_Lady

Don't forget that most if not all of it was written hundreds of years after Christs death and the witnesses that were there were also dead. We have no real way to know unless the Lord himself sat down and wrote the words. And even then how to prove that? I'm not trying to give offense, just trying to understand your reasoning.

It's not my reasoning, it's in the book of Matthew. By the logic you're using, do you disregard pretty much everything in the New Testament?

604 Bourdain's Breakfast  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:53:28pm

re: #599 Dragon_Lady

Welcome!

Thanks! Where's a lizard get a beverage around here?

605 unsavoryagent  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:54:02pm

re: #602 wrenchwench

Welcome, hatchling.

/OMG! Somebody left the door open!

Let me in, too!

606 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:54:26pm

re: #604 Bourdain's Breakfast

Thanks! Where's a lizard get a beverage around here?

See, if you new guys would pay the damned cover charge like you're supposed to, the ice chest would always be full.

607 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:54:28pm

re: #587 keloyd

How does this interpretation of turning the other cheek translate to international politics? What would that look like as a response to 9/11?

608 ExCamelJockey  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:54:40pm

re: #14 Charles

Yes, it is refuted by that, and by the thousands upon thousands of similar comments you can find all over the right wing websites.


These types of comments occur equally on both sides of the blogosphere. I can guarantee that there isn't a single day that goes by without hundreds of cheap shot comments at HuffPo and DailyKOS. Back when you were on the right side of conventional wisdom you made sport of them on a damn near daily basis.

609 doubter4444  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:54:51pm

re: #527 Aceofwhat?

And i believe that you are wrong. See my post on lawnmowers. Please respond with something equally clear in lieu of what you imagine he would suggest next, which is about as helpful as another pair of armpits.

Bite me.
The part about the vibrators was a bit of a joke, I have no idea what he would suggest next, though I would not be surprised if he did.
My real response was to the siillyness of the article, or at least at the 1940's sensibility of relationships between married couples, particularly younger ones.
As several have said, the charitable way of looking at it is that he's really advocating intimacy between partners, just doing it in a very clumsy way.
Yes partners should talk to each others, but to really suggest that married men from 35-55 are holding their heads in quite shame because they're not getting it often enough is, well, kinda simplistic.

610 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:55:32pm

It's not salacious enough in here.

611 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:55:58pm

re: #138 lawhawk

Calling Bush a cowboy was small potatoes compared with much of the more derisive bombs hurled in his direction: chimp; shrub; etc. They were basically ascribing Bush as subhuman - a position that the far right is mirroring with some of their truly racist crap (the African garb, for example).

Throw in the birthers and you've got a truly unhinged group of people out there.

I always though the "chimp" thing was a clever play on words of sorts because his name was George, like Curious George, though of course one could make the argument that George W. was anything but curious.

Is it wrong to find something like this funny? Image: art-george-bush-and-chimps.jpg

612 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:56:25pm

re: #570 Dragon_Lady

And He told you that or are you putting words into His mouth? No offense intended but I'm kinda curious... Don't forget men wrote the bible, not Jesus. And most of it was written many, many years after his death...

Remember that almost no serious scholar dates Mark past AD70 or Matthew/Luke past AD100 - 110. Those are the LATEST dates. That's not a lot of time from Ascension to source-gathering from eyewitnesses to publication.

613 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:57:40pm

re: #611 jamesfirecat

I always though the "chimp" thing was a clever play on words of sorts because his name was George, like Curious George, though of course one could make the argument that George W. was anything but curious.

Is it wrong to find something like this funny? [Link: www.pensitoreview.com...]

Honestly, and I voted twice for the guy, it's kinda funny.

614 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:57:50pm

re: #608 ExCamelJockey

EX Camel Jockey? So now you walk?

615 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:58:17pm

re: #398 arielle

that is true! Both parties should make sex time fun. BUT Dennis I think was talking about women who expect their husband to work, help with the dishes, help take care of the kids, help with everything and in the end get nothing for it, so don't be surprised if he looks for it somewhere else. Maybe women don't like that but it's true.

Are you actually suggesting that helping out with ONE'S OWN CHILDREN should be rewarded?

616 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:58:22pm

re: #523 lawhawk

More on O'Keefe (the pimp - gotta say it) being arrested:


Andrew Breitbart's site Big Government, which helped make O'Keefe a star, claims that it had no knowledge of what the four individuals were up to. Michelle Malkin writes, "They are, of course, presumed innocent until proven guilty. But for now, let it be a lesson to aspiring young conservatives interested in investigative journalism: 'Know your limits. Know the law. Don’t get carried away. And don’t become what you are targeting.'" Hot Air blogger Ed Morrissey said, "Journalists don't tap phones, and if that's what he tried, he's an idiot."

From ThinkProgress

617 Bourdain's Breakfast  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:58:34pm

Ice? It's freezing!

618 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:58:57pm

re: #611 jamesfirecat

I always though the "chimp" thing was a clever play on words of sorts because his name was George, like Curious George, though of course one could make the argument that George W. was anything but curious.

Is it wrong to find something like this funny? [Link: www.pensitoreview.com...]

You disgusting, hate-mongering, devisive wing-nut!!

619 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:59:25pm

re: #616 Stanley Sea

More on O'Keefe (the pimp - gotta say it) being arrested:

From ThinkProgress

SHocking, the wholesale embrace of their lawlessness by the Blogosphere.

620 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:59:31pm

re: #381 HoosierHoops

Ask Tiger Woods..
She won't even answer his calls now

Nor should she. He whored around. That's not punishment. It's reaping what he sowed. And, he sowed a lot.

621 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:59:43pm

re: #591 Aceofwhat?

Our culture is not locked in stone and static. It's dynamic, ever-changing, and evolving as the environment we live in changes. I doubt heavily that the Judeo-Christian heritage that much of our current culture derives from will ever be eradicated. But, also, it shouldn't be used to erect walls and prevent injustices from being corrected.

There is also reason to keep in mind that the spectrum of citizens in this country view the various symbols in our culture through different lenses. What is an innocent tradition to some sub-sets can be viewed much more negatively by other sub-sets. In private life it's easy to keep the symbols one wants, and the preferred interpretations along with them. As one moves from private life to community, to corporate/business relationships, and then on into governmental structures the viewpoints grow more diverse. And the need for empathy and toleration grow more important.

With a government based on a bedrock concept of church-state separation the need to consider the possible religious complications of some of the cultural trappings becomes more important. We are not the country we were 100 years ago, 50 years ago, or even 10 years ago.

622 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 1:59:49pm

re: #615 MandyManners

Are you actually suggesting that helping out with ONE'S OWN CHILDREN should be rewarded?

Now, now; you know how much more appreciation men require than normal humans.

623 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:00:19pm

re: #603 cliffster

Nooo, I just have a bit more pragmatism about ancient writings. God is in my heart, I believe Jesus was his son, and the Son of all man kind as well as aProfit.
I forgot, you may not have been privy to earlier conversations. I was raised Christian but I have studied in a Tao Confucionist Temple, where we studied Taoism, Buddhism, Judaism, and their relationship to Christianity. I guess you could say we, RWC and I, have a different perspective on the Bible. But we completely respect it and its teachings.

624 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:00:20pm

re: #586 DaddyG

General advice on intimacy in marriage is almost useless. Frequency and desire are influenced by a lot of factors including age, fatigue, time alone, affection, recovery from abuse, pregnancy, morning sickness, general health, kids... Abuse recovery is hard to deal with. Patience is the watch word there. No one should have to feel intimacy is an obligation, ever. Even the Biblical admonitions for intimacy come with mitigating factors for health and time to fast and pray (spiritual pursuits).

Well who asked you...
///lol

625 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:00:42pm

re: #341 Aceofwhat?

you don't know any men who rarely get to make love to their wives? lack of sexual activity is not exactly the rarest of male complaints in a marriage.

Get to make love TO? How about WITH?

626 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:00:43pm

re: #609 doubter4444

Bite me.
The part about the vibrators was a bit of a joke, I have no idea what he would suggest next, though I would not be surprised if he did.
My real response was to the siillyness of the article, or at least at the 1940's sensibility of relationships between married couples, particularly younger ones.
As several have said, the charitable way of looking at it is that he's really advocating intimacy between partners, just doing it in a very clumsy way.
Yes partners should talk to each others, but to really suggest that married men from 35-55 are holding their heads in quite shame because they're not getting it often enough is, well, kinda simplistic.

Ah. So neither should there be advice offered to, say, people with social anxiety disorder. Because to suggest that people are anxious in social situations is simplistic.

Come on. If it applies to someone, it's helpful. If it doesn't, what harm was done? It certainly doesn't imply the subjugation of anyone.

627 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:00:47pm

re: #618 cliffster

You disgusting, hate-mongering, devisive wing-nut!!

We're gonna have to tie someone down and make them watch Lost in Space reruns before this day is over, I can tell.

///

628 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:01:00pm

re: #617 Bourdain's Breakfast

Have a hot rum

629 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:01:15pm

re: #622 The Sanity Inspector

Now, now; you know how much more appreciation men require than normal humans.

do you need an excuse to reward the one you love?

630 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:01:38pm

re: #609 doubter4444

Are you a JD Robb fan? The "In Death" series is among the best written series of books ever!

631 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:01:58pm

"The left does it too " is neither a valid argument nor principled stance.

632 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:02:03pm

re: #356 Aceofwhat?

It's not wanting to on occasion. It's withholding when it's prolonged. Any fault with that logic?

There's more going on in the marriage than a lack of sex.

633 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:02:29pm

re: #631 Thanos

"The left does it too " is neither a valid argument nor principled stance.

** snore **

634 woodsman  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:02:37pm

Howday! Good to see Charles started a thread about the Prager "Open Letter" -- especially since I was accused of being a spammer just for posting the link this morning.

635 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:02:39pm

re: #579 cliffster

Matthew 5:38-40

9/11 was not a slap on the cheek. It was a declaration of war.
In righteousness he judges and makes war.

636 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:02:44pm

re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist

He's too tired from working all day long.

Marabell Morgan, where are you?

We wominns are just empty vessels waiting around to be filled up.

637 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:02:53pm

re: #628 Rightwingconspirator

I'll drink to that!

638 tradewind  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:03:00pm

re: #567 wrenchwench
Just a few of the milder ones.
[Link: www.google.com...]
[Link: www.blackcommentator.com...]
[Link: cbs2chicago.com...]

639 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:03:37pm

re: #632 MandyManners

There's more going on in the marriage than a lack of sex.

I'm in a platonic relationship. Platonic is latin for "I ain't gettin' any."

640 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:03:55pm

re: #623 Dragon_Lady

Good for you. You know what's in your heart.

641 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:04:03pm

re: #523 lawhawk

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

James O'Keefe (of the ACORN video fame (or infamy depending on your leanings) was arrested in Louisiana with four other men. They’re accused of misrepresenting themselves as telephone repairmen to gain access to Sen. Mary Landrieu’s office.


Dumb. Just dumb. And they deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law too.

If true, he's a stupid fucking idiot who's blown all his political capital.

642 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:06:10pm

re: #607 cliffster

I don't exactly know. By analogy, there are limits to the 'turn the other cheek' rule. Your obligation as protector to your family, if male and in good health, seems to place limits on turning of the cheek. If criminals break into your home, rob the place, then sexually assault your wife, you are sinning by not acting to defend her, and arguably also your property. Quakers seem to disagree on this point. Society is within its moral duties when it punishes people, hopefully with competence and mercy. Even Jesus and his followers allowed for this - at a time when "society" meant brutal and corrupt foreign colonial occupiers.

Military service seems to give you a pass as well, as you are acting as an agent for society, so the moral burden is (to a degree) off your shoulders.

As far as I can tell, Jesus taught you can still fight back against your enemies and kill people and break stuff, but to also love your enemy as yourself as you do it, but don't let that stop you doing it effectively, and that paradoxes are part of life.

643 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:06:22pm

re: #636 MandyManners

I assume you meant to add the // tags on that?

644 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:06:36pm

re: #479 webevintage

Wow, I had no idea the tea party folks were pissed at Sarah:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

And in honor of my hubby who has been able to put up with ME for 25 years:

[Video]

I have you beat by 19 years :))

645 Guanxi88  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:06:43pm

re: #631 Thanos

"The left does it too " is neither a valid argument nor principled stance.

But it's a dandy way of keeping the focus squarely where it belongs - on the evils of the Right.

646 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:06:54pm

FBI: ACORN Gotcha Guy Busted For Bugging Landrieu's Phones

The U.S. Marshals Service collared four men on Monday who were charged today by the New Orleans FBI for trying to “interfere” with Sen. Mary Landrieu’s office phones. Translation: Bug the lines.

One of those nabbed was conservative gotcha artist James O’Keefe, who secretly videotaped ACORN employees last year in several cities giving him advice on how to run an underage prostitution ring. O’Keefe soon became a darling of the political far right.

But yesterday, O’Keefe was caught inside the Louisiana Democrat’s Big Easy office in the Hale Boggs Federal Building with James Dai and two pals “falsely and fraudulently representing that they were employees of a telephone company,” according to an FBI affidavit filed in federal court.

647 Kragar  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:06:58pm

Man, I step away and miss a Cthulhu thread, wtf?

648 woodsman  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:07:02pm

Seems to me that Charles just threw a big curveball though. Looking forward to his "more detailed response!"

649 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:07:18pm

re: #643 Dragon_Lady

awww unnecessary for Mandy... We get it.

650 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:07:39pm

re: #646 Killgore Trout

That is sooooo two minutes ago

651 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:08:09pm

re: #648 woodsman

I agree there. Should be a great read.

652 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:08:14pm

re: #615 MandyManners

Are you actually suggesting that helping out with ONE'S OWN CHILDREN should be rewarded?

It comes down to positive reinforcement...if I help with the housework and do everything else that I need to do and my wife says Thanks. That's okay, but if she says thanks, let's go to bed, I have to admit it motivates me more than just the thanks.

653 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:08:20pm

re: #631 Thanos

"The left does it too " is neither a valid argument nor principled stance.

Works for me.

654 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:08:41pm

re: #640 cliffster

Good for you. You know what's in your heart.

Right Atrium, Left Atrium, Left Ventricle, Right Ventricle; Tricuspid Valve, Pulmonary Valve, Mitral Valve, Aortic Valve. You can remember the valves in the correct order of bloodflow by the phrase "Three People Might Agree."

655 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:09:02pm

re: #649 Rightwingconspirator

Easy for yous to type, you's not a wominn! I cain't see her body language!

656 lrsshadow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:09:55pm

re: #646 Killgore Trout

Well it just shows you how stupid some people can be. I mean come on everyone know when the left is out for blood, don't do stupid stuff. Bugging phones in a federal building, especially the phone of a US Senator, ugh ?hello? anybody home?

657 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:10:04pm

re: #654 SteveC

Did I stumble into med school? Weird...

658 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:10:17pm

re: #655 Dragon_Lady

Easy for yous to type, you's not a wominn! I cain't see her body language!

My wife has "The Look" which pretty much tells me I'm in trouble. I think it's genetic, her mother had the same look when my father in law did something she didn't like.

659 Blueheron  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:10:19pm
660 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:10:48pm

re: #621 oaktree

Our culture is not locked in stone and static. It's dynamic, ever-changing, and evolving as the environment we live in changes. I doubt heavily that the Judeo-Christian heritage that much of our current culture derives from will ever be eradicated. But, also, it shouldn't be used to erect walls and prevent injustices from being corrected.

There is also reason to keep in mind that the spectrum of citizens in this country view the various symbols in our culture through different lenses. What is an innocent tradition to some sub-sets can be viewed much more negatively by other sub-sets. In private life it's easy to keep the symbols one wants, and the preferred interpretations along with them. As one moves from private life to community, to corporate/business relationships, and then on into governmental structures the viewpoints grow more diverse. And the need for empathy and toleration grow more important.

With a government based on a bedrock concept of church-state separation the need to consider the possible religious complications of some of the cultural trappings becomes more important. We are not the country we were 100 years ago, 50 years ago, or even 10 years ago.

Our culture had a big influence on where we find ourselves today, and i'm not sad to be living here. I'm not sanguine about discarding the foundation of what got us here - i have far less faith in the trend o' the decade than the established history that has proven relatively successful, compared to other countries.

think of it as a cultural stare decisis.

and as citizens, we should adjust our lenses so that we view history as clearly as possible rather than ask our country to adapt to our personal lenses.

661 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:11:04pm

re: #643 Dragon_Lady

I assume you meant to add the // tags on that?

I don't use them.

662 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:11:39pm

re: #658 PT Barnum

My mother-in-law used to call it her "Mexican" look. Her words, not mine, God rest her soul....

663 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:11:41pm

re: #654 SteveC

Right Atrium, Left Atrium, Left Ventricle, Right Ventricle; Tricuspid Valve, Pulmonary Valve, Mitral Valve, Aortic Valve. You can remember the valves in the correct order of bloodflow by the phrase "Three People Might Agree."

Thank you, William B Yeats.

664 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:11:42pm

re: #632 MandyManners

There's more going on in the marriage than a lack of sex.

that could very well be the case. i was trying to confine my answer to your question, lest i presume more than i should!

665 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:12:06pm

re: #657 Dragon_Lady

Did I stumble into med school? Weird...

The right atrium’s where the process begins, where the C02 blood enters the heart. Through the tricuspid valve, to the right ventricle, the pulmonary artery, and lungs.

Once inside the lungs, it dumps its carbon dioxide and picks up its oxygen supply. Then it’s back to the heart through the pulmonary vein, through the atrium and left ventricle.

Pump, pump, pumps your blood!

Pump, pump, pumps your blood!

The aortic valve is where the blood leaves the heart, then it’s channeled to the rest of the bod. The arteries, arterioles, and capillaries too bring the oxygenated blood to the cells. The tissues and the cells trade off waste and C02, which is carried through the venules and the veins. Through the larger vena cava to the atrium and lungs, and we’re back to where we started in the heart!

666 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:12:58pm

re: #661 MandyManners

Oh, my bad! RWC has correct me already. I won't make that mistake agin.

667 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:13:10pm

re: #638 tradewind

As I understood it, you were going to give me examples of people who disagreed with Bush because Bush is white. [See #145] You've given me examples of Black people who call Bush a racist. Not the same thing.

668 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:13:11pm

re: #662 Dragon_Lady

If you go by the soap operas on Telemundo - then there are 4 looks - the crying look, the angry and throwing things look, the seduction look, and the plotting revenge look.

669 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:14:15pm

re: #665 SteveC

Yech! Keep that stuff to yourself will you? I don't need the mental image.

670 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:14:32pm

re: #554 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There are many many sad marriages that are simply financial arrangements. Sad, but true. From both parties.

I guess folks in that situation have to decide according to the famous Ann Landers question--are you better off with or without each other?

671 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:14:47pm

re: #631 Thanos

"The left does it too " is neither a valid argument nor principled stance.

If one leaves a group primarily due to the excesses/extremes of said group, comparing party excesses can be a valid argument. I'm not saying that Prager is right, I'm not saying that I've accurately encapsulated Charles' reasons for doing anything...but there is an instance in which it can indeed be a valid argument.

672 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:15:11pm

re: #668 keloyd

If you go by the soap operas on Telemundo - then there are 4 looks - the crying look, the angry and throwing things look, the seduction look, and the plotting revenge look.

that pretty much goes for American soap operas too. My wife watches the ABC soaps. If she misses a day, I like to mess with her by coming up with the most rediculous plot twists I can think of and see if she'll believe me...sadly sometimes what I come up with is less ludicrous than what is actually getting aired.

673 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:15:40pm

re: #668 keloyd

If you go by the soap operas on Telemundo - then there are 4 looks - the crying look, the angry and throwing things look, the seduction look, and the plotting revenge look.

TELEMUNDO! I have no idea what you're saying miss, but gosh, you're pretty!

674 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:15:43pm

re: #668 keloyd

There are more than that! The sarcasm look, the exasperated look, the I don't give a s**t look. Need I go on?

675 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:15:53pm

re: #563 Guanxi88

You poor widow's son, you.

(Rapidly completes a series of bizarre and arcane hand signs with ralphieboy.)

Before you wall him up in your family catacombs?

676 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:17:01pm

re: #672 PT Barnum

I always thought that stuff rots your brain! Ummm mush, hulu would be proud!

677 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:17:03pm

re: #661 MandyManners

I don't use them.

I hate 'em.
Shoot the little buggers.

678 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:17:41pm

re: #569 lrsshadow

Well here is how I look at it, many divorces happen due to sex or money. I don't consider this anywhere out of line as he also has an article dealing with men who are not in the mood when the woman is. Therefor he is not just dealing one side of this issue in his articles.

All the article is trying to do is have the axiom "if I am not in the mood I should not and ought not have sex" rethought. I think it is entirely unfair for either person to have to go with little or no sex because the other thinks it is not right unless they are in the mood.

If you listened to Dennis you would know that he says many times that he thinks it is good for the relationship to have intimate time even if one or both are not in the mood. Those couple who have regular sex are statistically happier and less likely to get divorced.

Can you link me the article about men not being in the mood? I would like to read it.

679 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:18:01pm

re: #661 MandyManners

I don't use them.

GOOGLE, LIZARDS

680 cliffster  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:18:09pm

re: #661 MandyManners

I don't use them.

I had mine surgically removed.

681 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:18:38pm

re: #677 Spare O'Lake

Yeah, but us noobs don't know that! I need a play by play book!

682 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:19:08pm

re: #678 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you link me the article about men not being in the mood? I would like to read it.

You like reading fiction?

683 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:19:22pm

re: #592 Soap_Man

From The West Wing, with Alan Alda playing Arnie Vinick, Republican Senator from California:

"I don't see how we can have a separation of church and state in this government if you have to pass a religious test to get in this government. And I want to warn everyone in the press and all the voters out there if you demand expressions of religious faith from politicians, you are just begging to be lied to. They won't all lie to you but a lot of them will. And it will be the easiest lie they ever had to tell to get your votes. So, every day until the end of this campaign, I'll answer any question anyone has on government, But if you have a question on religion, please go to church."

I liked Vinick. He should have won.

684 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:19:38pm

BBL, Dr's office just called me back, gonna go see'm before my tummy bug gets nasty. See ya!

685 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:20:10pm

re: #673 SteveC

TELEMUNDO! I have no idea what you're saying miss, but gosh, you're pretty!

YES! We redid Ugly Betty from one of the Mexican networks kind of like The Office. Even their "ugly" actress was really stunningly attractive - but with black thick framed glasses.

686 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:20:17pm

re: #607 cliffster

How does this interpretation of turning the other cheek translate to international politics? What would that look like as a response to 9/11?

One turned cheek and 2999 smitings? Of course if you go with the 7x70 thing its 2510 smitings.

I however happen to think in the case of "if there is one of us left we will kill you all" a more old testament approach is appropriate.

687 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:21:00pm

re: #614 SteveC

EX Camel Jockey? So now you walk?

Hip Hop Hoodios:

I used to ride on a camel's back,
But now I smoke Camels by the pack.

688 Mich-again  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:21:39pm
10. Hatred for President Obama that goes far beyond simply criticizing his policies, into racism, hate speech, and bizarre conspiracy theories..

The charge is a lie. Period.

Charles never said all criticism aimed at Obama was hate. Prager is using a textbook strawman argument there.

689 DaddyG  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:22:04pm

re: #624 Oh no...Sand People!

Well who asked you...
///lol


My opinions are free and worth every penny you pay for them. ;-p

690 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:22:11pm

re: #620 MandyManners

Nor should she. He whored around. That's not punishment. It's reaping what he sowed. And, he sowed a lot.

And he humiliated her in front of the entire cable-receiving world.

691 Mich-again  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:23:07pm

re: #685 keloyd

Even their "ugly" actress was really stunningly attractive - but with black thick framed glasses.

You don't need to know a word of Spanish to enjoy Telemundo.

692 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:23:23pm

re: #683 SanFranciscoZionist

I liked Vinick. He should have won.

I read somewhere that he was going to - that was the planned plot until John Spenser (Leo) suddenly died. Then they decided to give the election to Santos and make Alan Alda the new Sec State.

693 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:23:38pm

re: #620 MandyManners

Nor should she. He whored around. That's not punishment. It's reaping what he sowed. And, he sowed a lot.

well said

694 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:23:42pm

re: #691 Mich-again

You don't need to know a word of Spanish to enjoy Telemundo.

I don't , and I do!

695 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:24:11pm

re: #685 keloyd

YES! We redid Ugly Betty from one of the Mexican networks kind of like The Office. Even their "ugly" actress was really stunningly attractive - but with black thick framed glasses.

Guyts who don't make passes at girls who wear glasses.... are idiots.

696 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:24:56pm

re: #673 SteveC

TELEMUNDO! I have no idea what you're saying miss, but gosh, you're pretty!

My husband watches Spanish TV and makes up his own dialgoue.

697 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:25:40pm

re: #682 Spare O'Lake

You like reading fiction?

I know a couple women who might want to see it.

698 oldegeezr  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:27:09pm

A TH poster; Red, Location: Mi. gives a couple of defenders of serial marriage, what fore!

“I am not upset that Prager has divorced, twice. I just don't think he should waddle up to the soap-box and prattle on about how Marriage is the Most Important Institution in Society. It puts the twice-divorced Prager in the position of looking like a Hypocritical Rightist Windbag.”

Sorta reminds me of one drug addict referring to other drug addicts as “human debris”.

699 SteveC  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:27:09pm

re: #682 Spare O'Lake

You like reading fiction?

re: #697 SanFranciscoZionist

I know a couple women who might want to see it.

Comedy script?

700 keloyd  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:28:25pm

re: #693 Aceofwhat?

We don't know that Mrs. Tiger DIDN't fool around. All we know is Tiger got caught, over and over. Elam must have known that when Tiger showed an interest in her, and probably also her smoking hot twin, that it was becauese she was an attractive model he wanted for a notch on his belt. If she knew, or should have realized he was the sort of dog that can't stay on the porch when they married, then my empathy for her is limited. The divorced people I know, who are my age, almost always take two to tango. Either two phlilanderers marry, or two drunks marry, or two selfish and selectively religious people marry, then they both blame the other when the house of cards collapses.

701 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:29:34pm

re: #697 SanFranciscoZionist

I know a couple women who might want to see it.

I'm pretty sure you can find it in Ripley's Believe It Or Not.

702 Kruk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:29:49pm

re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist

I love having men lecture me on how I've got the wrong idea about marriage...

That's because you're a sinner who has never read the Bible.

"On the night of their betrothal, the wife shall open to the man as the furrow to the plow and he shall work in her, in and again till she bring him to his full and rest him then upon the sweat of her breast."

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

//

703 Londonistan Calling  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:34:01pm

I share most of Mr Prager's views on this.. I had stopped coming quite a while ago because I thought the blog had lost its message. It became primarily about creationism and fascists in Europe, etc.. which in the big picture is really a collection of irrelevances.. The content I had come to enjoy was gone. I didn't give it much thought, there are lots of good spots on the web for high quality commentary, both left and right. I had left before I had seen Mr Johnson's "why I am leaving" post, and I have to say that it is not really that impressive. It sounds like he just got tired of getting ignorant email, which is fine, but I am sad for the loss of Charles' voice in the opposition to radical Islam.

704 Kruk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:34:39pm

re: #189 cliffster

How to get de-friended in Facebook..

Or simply call someone out for referring to Black people as c**ns. That happened to the person who challenged the use of the word among a group of Young Republicans.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

705 Kruk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:38:39pm

re: #236 RogueOne

Women speak a different language. It's easier if you have your girlfriend explain it to your spouse.

I don't know about you, but I'd much prefer it if my girlfriend never spoke to my spouse....

Kidding, hon!

706 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:42:39pm

re: #703 Londonistan Calling

Bullshit. I wouldn't be here if I believed that Charles was not actively engaged in opposition to radical Islam.

707 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:44:04pm

re: #700 keloyd

i don't know a lot of pro athletes. i only know a few. and the vast, vast, vast preponderance of infidelity is committed by the athlete, leaving a spouse in disarray.

you may be right about your friends. this guy ain't like your friends.

708 Kruk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:44:31pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, God, you're not helping yourself. Men go to work and women put out? On what PLANET? Planet 1953?

I'm guessing there are more than a few in the "men's rights" groups who do wish it was 1953....

709 oldegeezr  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:49:22pm

re: #646 Killgore Trout

Makes one wonder if it will make O’Reilly’s “Talking Point Memo” or if Hannity will devote a complete segment to the dastardly deed for the next two weeks?

710 Kruk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:51:16pm

re: #381 HoosierHoops

Ask Tiger Woods..
She won't even answer his calls now

In Woods' case, wouldn't witholding sex simply be considered helping him go cold turkey?

711 Kobyashi Maru  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:51:41pm

I've been a lizard for a while, and I see nothing unusual or alarming about Charles' so-called "transformation". People can evolve (except for those who don't believe in any evolution) and become more nuanced in their world view. The former occupant of the White House view that "You're either with us or against us" is an example of a position which I opposed.

A black and white world ignoring shades of gray even is much easier to espouse reductionist philosophy than a world in which we are playing 256 chess games at the same time and a move pf a pawn on one board may have unknown and profound effects on another game far away; such as it is with politics. The current "right" of the US would not be recognized by the GOP of 1970, or any year before that. Barry Goldwater os probably rolling in his grave. IMHO, Charles had a change of his philosophy (but still outspoken on the threat posed by Islamists) because so many of the people who support that cause are carrying the very baggage he mentioned in his farewell to the tin foil hat wearing element that the GOP has adopted. There is way too much hate anger, racism, anti semitism, etc. etc. coming from the right (e.g., how can MSNBC even keep that Holocaust denying creep (ha my own pun!) Pat Buchanan on the network?

Charles, I support you and stood up for you on Pete Diominic's blog which is filled with left wing nut cases. I think you found your proper place in the universe and wish you ongoing success.....

712 oldegeezr  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:53:06pm

re: #705 Kruk

Kidding, hon!

That's what they all say hon...!

713 Kruk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:54:53pm

re: #397 PT Barnum

Studies have shown that people who have sex regularly have happier marriages, but I would guess they're having sex regularly because they have a happy marriage...:)

I wondered the same thing about the study that said people who have regular sex have less heart disease. Does sex prevent heart disease, doeshaving heart disease stop you having sex?

714 Kruk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 2:57:01pm

re: #412 oaktree

Meanwhile, the left hand continued the planning for an unsuspected surprise at a later date...

Sometimes you just have to play the hand you're dealt....

715 doubter4444  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:03:51pm

re: #626 Aceofwhat?

Ah. So neither should there be advice offered to, say, people with social anxiety disorder. Because to suggest that people are anxious in social situations is simplistic.

Come on. If it applies to someone, it's helpful. If it doesn't, what harm was done? It certainly doesn't imply the subjugation of anyone.

But I'm not saying that, I'm simply pointing out it's a funny article, with an old fashioned and out moded way of explaining relationships that may have relevance to blue hairs, but not really to the "younger folk".
As for advice to people with social anxiety disorder, perhaps a session with a toy, or a quiet room and a mag might do the trick, I'd love to see the response if he (or anyone) suggested that!

716 cosmo  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:12:59pm

re: #6 MandyManners

Does Prager have the ability to delete comments at Townhall?

Ability? Most likely. Time? Not likely. Charles himself notes that he doesn't (or didn't) have the time now to respond.

Sadly, I do think Charles, that you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater on this one. I'm not a Dennis Prager reader/listener much anymore, and the only book I have of his, Think a Second Time, sits unread on my shelf, but I do think that characterizing one group (right, left, etc.) by the ideology of its fringe, is a dangerous business.

For the record, I am a frequent visitor to MM's site, but I wouldn't dream of characterizing her POV by her readers, just as I wouldn't yours, Charles, by the vast Lizardoid army.

717 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:16:18pm

re: #706 Spare O'Lake

I agree! I have yet to downding anyone but I'm sorely tempted in this case!

718 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:18:17pm

re: #711 Kobyashi Maru

I agree! With out change we stagnate, and stagnation is not in the human genome!

719 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:19:23pm

re: #708 Kruk

I'm guessing there are more than a few in the "men's rights" groups who do wish it was 1953...

Oh Dude, you are asking for it! Don't go there...

720 Donna Ballard  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:20:40pm

Gonna go look at the new thread....

721 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:26:01pm

Dennis Prager's statement lacks the word "some". The political right is not monolithic. Some are racists; Some are not. Some are brilliant; Some are not.

722 Londonistan Calling  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:29:49pm

re: #706 Spare O'Lake

I am not saying Charles no longer sees Radical Islam as a threat, but I think it is entirely fair to say that this blog does not view it as the gravest threat. The threat of the intolerant/racist right and the push for creationism and Global warming are seen as more critical threats based on the postings. I just searched this blog for AbdulMutallab.. I invite you to do it, and see if you still think this is the primary concern according to this blog.. nothing on the shameful handling of his interrogation, nothing on the breakdown of intelligence that allowed the murder of a huge number of innocents to be avoided only through the grace of god. Do that same search and see if you still agree that this blog is primarily concerned with Radical Islam.

723 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 3:44:21pm

re: #580 Rightwingconspirator

Moses is there; just not on those particular friezes.

724 nbenhaim  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 4:07:44pm

As an avid listener of Dennis Prager and regular reader of LGF, there is nothing I would love more than to see Charles debate Dennis on this article. There were some minor things that Prager brought up in his article that were incorrect but for the most part I side with Prager, but I'd love to see these two go at it live and unscripted.

725 Merkin  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 4:26:19pm

I don't see any of the defenders of the right listing their decades long efforts to fight racism. Perhaps now that they have fought and won the battle to end the inhuman agony of discrimination against corporations and their money, they can turn their attention to ending racial discrimination.

726 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 4:45:32pm

re: #724 nbenhaim

As an avid listener of Dennis Prager and regular reader of LGF, there is nothing I would love more than to see Charles debate Dennis on this article. There were some minor things that Prager brought up in his article that were incorrect but for the most part I side with Prager, but I'd love to see these two go at it live and unscripted.

If the promised forthcoming response is going to be a rebuttal of Prager rather than a restatement of Charles' views, I hope he goes after the strongest points first.

727 What, me worry?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 4:46:14pm

re: #711 Kobyashi Maru

It's not really a change of philosophy (except on global warming). He was always center left, but leaned Right after the Bush response to 9/11. While most of the country did, LGF stayed on the Right altho when more liberal topics arose (Terry Schiavo always come to mind) he was on the Left.

In 2003, that's 7 years ago mind you, there was this post here

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

that explained Charles. It's a bit "dated" to other topics of the day, but starts off like this,

Charles is not right wing. He is not left wing. Those paradigms don't fit him, nor do they fit this blog. Or most of those in the real world.

At the risk of putting words in Charles' mouth, after the Vlaams Belang incident (2006 was it?), Charles wasn't just disappointed or upset. He was hurt that these folks (Spencer and Fjordman primarily) who he considered good friends didn't see the neo-Nazi fascism in the VB. Or they saw it and said it was old history and we need their help despite it. Days, weeks of lengthy discussion ensued and lines were drawn. Very deliberate lines. Hurt feelings turned into anger on both sides. From there, Charles began to purge the site of this Right wing contingent, some of whom had been openly bigoted against Muslims. Fair or not fair? When I run a website with 34,000 registered users, I'll come back and tell you.

728 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 4:46:46pm

re: #725 Merkin

I don't see any of the defenders of the right listing their decades long efforts to fight racism. Perhaps now that they have fought and won the battle to end the inhuman agony of discrimination against corporations and their money, they can turn their attention to ending racial discrimination.

If we were all limited to talking about what we've accomplished, rather than what side we're on, it would be a silent room indeed.

729 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 4:54:18pm

re: #722 Londonistan Calling

I am not saying Charles no longer sees Radical Islam as a threat, but I think it is entirely fair to say that this blog does not view it as the gravest threat. The threat of the intolerant/racist right and the push for creationism and Global warming are seen as more critical threats based on the postings. I just searched this blog for AbdulMutallab.. I invite you to do it, and see if you still think this is the primary concern according to this blog.. nothing on the shameful handling of his interrogation, nothing on the breakdown of intelligence that allowed the murder of a huge number of innocents to be avoided only through the grace of god. Do that same search and see if you still agree that this blog is primarily concerned with Radical Islam.

It's unreasonable to expect any one blogger to be an all-around guru, even if he or she is simply running a link farm. Charles is on record as saying that he believes the WOT is not the most pressing issue in public life anymore. There's certainly room to disagree--and you will certainly find such disagreement in the comments here. But there's no need to carry on as if you've come up with some big gotcha moment--you're late, that's all.

730 editor  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 5:00:26pm

I don't think "the Kenyan" is intended to be racist; rather, it's an allusion to the charge that the president is not a US citizen.

(If this was argued already above, I apologize; don't have time to read all the comments.)

731 freetoken  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 5:16:10pm

re: #730 editor

I don't think "the Kenyan" is intended to be racist; rather, it's an allusion to the charge that the president is not a US citizen.

A charge which itself is highly loaded with racist connotation.

732 Londonistan Calling  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 5:16:43pm

re: #729 The Sanity Inspector

Absolutely, I don't think it is a gotcha.. I just said I was sad that the focus of the blog had moved off WOT to other things, no J'accuse, just a fact. I was called BS on this and so I just thought of what was the last big development and searched for it.. Charles has absolute dominion to make this blog about whatever he may please.. but I think to say that this is a blog *primarily* focused on Radical Islam is simply not true any longer.

733 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 5:19:17pm

re: #732 Londonistan Calling

Absolutely, I don't think it is a gotcha.. I just said I was sad that the focus of the blog had moved off WOT to other things, no J'accuse, just a fact. I was called BS on this and so I just thought of what was the last big development and searched for it.. Charles has absolute dominion to make this blog about whatever he may please.. but I think to say that this is a blog *primarily* focused on Radical Islam is simply not true any longer.

Well, I confess I'm parachute commenting here, so maybe I missed some backstory on an exchange you may have been involved in. But yes, LGF is no longer primarily an anti-jihad blog, and no, this is not news.

734 What, me worry?  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 5:33:08pm

re: #730 editor

I don't think "the Kenyan" is intended to be racist; rather, it's an allusion to the charge that the president is not a US citizen.

(If this was argued already above, I apologize; don't have time to read all the comments.)

"The Kenyan" is code for "that Black guy" which is more than likely code word for something else. Otherwise, he would have called him Nobama or some sort.

735 Sloppy  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 5:36:58pm

At my advanced age, and never having read or heard Dennis Prager, I think I can be excused from this discussion. Good night, all.

736 Tigger2005  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 5:48:41pm

re: #157 keloyd

You cannot be a creationist (as Charles has called Prager) AND believe the Earth is 4.6 billion years old in a 13.7(?) year old universe, and that we are biologically descended from the great apes.

We are related to the great apes. We are not biologically descended from them...they are distant cousins. Humans and the great apes most likely descended from a common ancestor. A person who doesn't know this about evolution really isn't qualified to talk about it one way or another.

737 William  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 6:03:53pm
Prager's point is that there is no racism in the Vast Unhinged's opposition to Obama.

No, it wasn't. That's a straw man. There is racism in every group in every city in every country on the planet, obviously.

Prager's point was that the fringe does not represent the whole, or the mainstream, and he named names: the Hoover Institution, the Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, National Review, the Weekly Standard, Bill Kristol, and Charles Krauthammer, for example.

I'd add Victor Davis Hanson, too.

738 William  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 6:09:15pm

Prager ended the article with an invite to his radio show, it would be great to hear that discussion.

739 freetoken  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 6:17:32pm

re: #737 William

.

Prager's point was that the fringe does not represent the whole, or the mainstream, and he named names: the Hoover Institution, the Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, National Review, the Weekly Standard, Bill Kristol, and Charles Krauthammer , for example.

I'd add Victor Davis Hanson, too.

Except for the bolded ones, the names you list have shown tendencies for ODS, creationism/RR promotion, or other nonsense. Kristol is half-bolded because he is a strange character who is more ideological than many but perhaps less vindictive about it than many too.

The Hoover Institute is worth reading, and Krauthammer may be worth my time, on occasion, but the rest are a waste.

740 William  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 6:22:33pm

Wow, Victor Davis Hanson is now "a waste."

Anyway, the point wasn't if they're "worth reading."

741 freetoken  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 6:34:52pm

re: #740 William

Wow, Victor Davis Hanson is now "a waste."


Yes, since he decided his new gig would be to try and be the intellectual giant fish in the very tiny brain-pond of Tea Partiers and the like. I guess that is what one has to do if one wants people to sign up for your Travel Cruises.

Furthermore, by "waste" I meant of no value. No Value because their ideology and prejudices have degraded their analytical abilities to the point where too much of their material is flawed, and I don't have the time to try and sort through the garbage for anything of value that might have happened to have fallen through.

742 carefulnow  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 9:22:23pm
Another weak individual is on an estrogen binge and has caved to the insanity.


From Prager's comments. Hm. See point 3.
I used to listen to Prager years ago, but he became a Johnny-one-note with his anti-librul rants.

743 The Left  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 9:27:37pm

Apologies if these have already been mentioned, but I promised someone earlier today that I'd post some of the reasons why I don't like Prager. Herewith a list of his 'greatest hits': (links are to caches when possible)

8 reasons why women should have sex when their husbands demand it, even if they don't want to.

Yes, that really is what he argues.

Minorities Should Feel Shame

Basically, Prager says individual members of minority groups should apologize for the bad things that other members of that group did which forced the majority to enact discriminatory laws against the entire minority group and then feel vaguely guilty years later for doing so.

Column about Keith Ellison taking the vow on a Koran, in which Prager claims:

He should not be allowed to do so — not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American civilization.

[...]

When all elected officials take their oaths of office with their hands on the very same book, they all affirm that some unifying value system underlies American civilization. If Keith Ellison is allowed to change that, he will be doing more damage to the unity of America and to the value system that has formed this country than the terrorists of 9-11.



Ann Coulter Wants Jews to Become Christian. So What?

I really don't think further comment is necessary.

Here he is at Human Events crying about a study that shows that 9 out of every 10 American girls aged 12-18 have been sexually harassed. He's not worried about sexual harassment: he's worried about those lesbians and feminists who are brainwashing them! Because, as we all know, it's really men who are likely to be 'oppressed':

“The study found that girls who had a better understanding of feminism … were more likely to recognize sexual harassment.” There is no question that this is true. Girls subjected to feminist indoctrination are undoubtedly more likely to interpret innocuous behavior as sexual harassment. Almost the entire liberal-left Weltanschauung is predicated on portraying every group in America except white, male, heterosexual Christians as oppressed. … If either sex is “oppressed” today, it is far more likely to be males.

More to come!

744 The Left  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 9:34:31pm

Opposed to Prop 8? Well according to Prager, that's because you're the real hater.

The Rape of a Name is Also Rape

In which our hero argues that accusing a man of a rape you cannot prove is just as bad, if not worse, than being raped.

George Soros and the Problem of the Radical Non-Jewish Jew

"It's okay to feel antisemitic towards Soros, because hey, he's not even Jewish!"

This is just a small sampling. There is much, much more. He really hates atheists! Some gold to be found there.
Anyway: Dennis Prager: loathsome tool.
(Sorry for the direct links, screwed up caches for some reason)

745 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 10:01:56pm

re: #743 iceweasel

re: #744 iceweasel

Wow. I think that just blew away the last scintilla of doubt regarding Pragers jerk status.

746 The Left  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 10:04:40pm

re: #745 Jimmah

re: #744 iceweasel

Wow. I think that just blew away the last scintilla of doubt regarding Pragers jerk status.

I definitely have more. Especially about atheists. He tried to get into a little fight with Hitchens. Specifically arguing that atheists are less moral.
Heh. You can guess how that went!

747 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 10:12:06pm

re: #746 iceweasel

I definitely have more. Especially about atheists. He tried to get into a little fight with Hitchens. Specifically arguing that atheists are less moral.
Heh. You can guess how that went!

Oh yes - the old 'morality is nothing unless it comes from a certified magical law giver' routine? Hitchens would have loved tearing him to bits on that. Look forward to seeing it.

748 The Left  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 10:14:26pm

re: #747 Jimmah

Oh yes - the old 'morality is nothing unless it comes from a certified magical law giver' routine? Hitchens would have loved tearing him to bits on that. Look forward to seeing it.

Your wish is, as ever, my command, love. Back in a sec--

749 The Left  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 10:30:28pm

Here is Hitch's response:

I was to imagine myself in a strange city as the evening was coming on. Toward me I was to imagine that I saw a large group of men approaching. Now — would I feel safer, or less safe, if I was to learn that they were just coming from a prayer meeting?
....
Just to stay within the letter B, I have actually had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem, and Baghdad. In each case I can say absolutely, and can give my reasons, why I would feel immediately threatened if I thought that the group of men approaching me in the dusk were coming from a religious observance.

Heh.

750 Aye Pod  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 10:38:10pm

re: #749 iceweasel

Here is Hitch's response:

Heh.

Excellent! Prager sure picked the wrong person to run that little 'thought experiment' past.

751 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jan 26, 2010 10:57:14pm

Jimmah amd Ice -

I have not been around for a while - are you guys in two separate sections of the same cave complex in Scotland using LGF to communicate?

I agree that Prager is thin on moral claims. Morality is only exhibited by actions that result from choice. If one acts only to comport with law, that action is not a moral one. So if one is simply obedient to a law giver that does not make him moral. So I can see why Prager would lose and argument with Hitchens over atheists being intrinsically less moral - one could argue that a truly thoughtful atheist, unaided by a "guide book", would have to plumb further depths in order to make a moral choice.

Perhaps Prager confused atheist with nihilist (or sees no difference).

752 londonistan calling  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 4:46:25am

re: #743 iceweasel

re: #744 iceweasel

Thanks for those links.. I encourage people to click through to them. This atheist finds Mr Prager the clearest, most thoughtful voice on Talk radio. I was going to refute your comments on each of these links, but I think just clicking through will do that much better than I could.. Btw, Hitchins cheated on the thought experiment (and I have every book Hitch has written and even used to subscribe to The Nation to read him every month).. the question wasn't a prayer meeting.. it was a bible study in America.. and if you honestly would not be relieved that the group of men you are encountering came from a bible study, you are being intellectually dishonest. (Now you might argue that a bible study in America is not representative of religion generally, and that is fine, but Hitch changed the question)

753 The Left  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 4:50:02am

re: #752 londonistan calling


Thanks for those links.. I encourage people to click through to them.

So do I. I encourage clicking through. It doesn't refute anything I have said about prager; it will only confirm it.

BTW, I have a number of links about Prager and his anti-atheist bigotry. I haven't provided any here about that, yet, but go on with your refuting self.

754 The Left  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 4:53:25am

re: #751 karmic_inquisitor


Perhaps Prager confused atheist with nihilist (or sees no difference).

I think that's essentially right. I haven't yet bothered to catalogue Prager's confused calumnies about atheists yet here with links-- but that does seem to be essentially what he's arguing. Atheists=nihilists="relativism about all ethical and moral principles" gibberish.

If you're interested I'll dig a few up and then link them here for you and let you know.

755 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 8:02:47am
756 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 8:15:42am

Actually Dennis is taking a hit on this. His normally logical approach to many things, of which I am a big fan, gets short circuited when it comes to AGW and in this case criticism of the right by Charles.

I would love for a live debate between Charles and Dennis

757 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 8:26:45am
758 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 9:20:11am

re: #755 flaggman

I'm sorry but you will now be required to turn in your Anti-Idiotarian Badge.

130 flaggman 2/22/2008 8:20:35 am PST

After years of missing "Doors Open" by mere minutes, I couldn't believe I got my foot in last night. Happy to be here, another Canuck anti-idiotarian. God bless Ezra Levant!

759 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 9:38:52am
760 jaunte  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 9:42:38am

re: #755 flaggman

re: #759 Wild Justice


Image: 3213347803_06e7ca71a6.jpg

761 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 10:05:26am
762 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 10:10:34am

Sorry, you don't get to post comments at LGF telling me how much LGF sucks. There are plenty of websites where you can do that.

763 robdouth  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 2:03:27pm

re: #756 BigPapa

I think the problem is what Dennis cited in his article. Perhaps Dennis is wrong on AGW, but the "pro-science" establishment has been wrong on so many hysteria's that it's hard to know when they get it right, especially with paid political shills on both sides. Again though, you have to dig to know Dennis's official stance on AGW. He says four separate things have to be true for you to take Al Gore's stance:

1. AGW is happening
2. you have to believe the A part of AGW
3. You have to believe it will be disastrous
4. You have to believe that Humans can stop/reverse it's effects.

Whether you disagree with him or not, the argument is reached by logical means. Also, it would be nice if Charles answered some of the criticisms with more than posting one hateful comment posted in response to the article. The comment he posted was #84, and I read through the ones before it and with the exception of infighting, there was very little example. It's silly to point to a comment to an article (which Dennis can't control or police) and say that proves your point. It's a weak argument. I believe there is an argument to be made for Charles positions, and I'm hoping he is formulating it now, but this post is a non-answer to Prager's points, and I would love to see Charles back on Prager's show because even though you may disagree on some points, the two of you are very fair to those you disagree with. I guarantee he would give Charles an hour to flesh out a number of different topics.

A lot of Prager's points were very good about how guys like Robert Stacy McCain and Velaams Belang and virtual unknowns to the average American. He'd have a hard time combatting the job Charles has done documenting mainstream windbags like Limbaugh and Beck.

Sorry if this sounds more pro-Prager, but I've always held him as an example of critical thinking, so I really feel that a meeting on his show would be illuminating for those of us who still consider themselves right-wing, without being wingnuts. Thanks for posting this Charles.

764 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 2:13:14pm

re: #763 robdouth

it would be nice if Charles answered some of the criticisms with more than posting one hateful comment posted in response to the article.

See this comment. It was posted a few minutes before yours.

765 robdouth  Wed, Jan 27, 2010 2:27:01pm

re: #764 wrenchwench

I did say I figured he was formulating one. I really don't think he should write that it will be more time than it's worth. He can't seriously lump Prager in with the Limbaugh's and Beck's of the world. Anyone listening to Prager has to know he doesn't have a hateful bone in his body. I believe he may be naive to the amount of depravity that has creeped into the right wing, both blogosphere and tea-party wise, but Charles should know from first hand encounters with Prager that he's very unique in that he will correct himself when demonstrated that he is wrong (obviously this doesn't apply to AGW where he feels he has not been adequately convinced, and has not spent the same amount of time researching as Charles), but he's the only talk-radio personality I will listen to specifically because he does not appeal to the hatred in each of us.

While sometimes wrong, he is not hateful and I think it's a moral imperative for Charles to join him on the radio so that there can be no confusion through blog postings or things being taken out of context. I believe Charles is one of the few people who could create a change of heart in Prager for at least one or two issues, because he always spoke well of Charles during his earlier years. Maybe I'm just viewing the world through rose-colored glasses, but I would love to see my favorite blog and my favorite radio personality hash some of this out in what would definitely be an entertaining hour. If more on the right were like Dennis, Charles would never have had to write what he did about leaving the party.


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