Why Don’t TV Weathermen Believe in Climate Change?

Environment • Views: 6,870

An interesting piece by Charles Homans at Columbia Journalism Review, asking the question: “Why don’t TV weathermen believe in climate change?” Hot Air.

The disagreement, then as now, also came down to the weathercasters themselves, and what they knew—or believed they knew. Meteorology has a deceptively close relationship with climatology: both disciplines study the same general subject, the behavior of the atmosphere, but they ask very different questions about it. Meteorologists live in the short term, the day-to-day forecast. It’s an incredibly hard thing to predict accurately, even with the best models and data; tiny discrepancies matter enormously, and can pile up quickly into giant errors. Given this level of uncertainty in their own work, meteorologist looking at long-range climate questions are predisposed to see a system doomed to terminal unpredictability. But in fact, the basic question of whether rising greenhouse gas emissions will lead to climate change hinges on mostly simple, and predictable, matters of physics. The short-term variations that throw the weathercasters’ forecasts out of whack barely register at all.

This is the one explanation that everyone who has mulled the question seems to agree on—and indeed, when I spoke with meteorologists who were skeptical of or uncertain about the scientific consensus, it was the one thing they all brought up. “Meteorologists know our models,” Brian Neudorff, a meteorologist at WROC in Rochester, New York, told me. “There’s a lot of error and bias. We’ll use five different models and come back with five different things. So when we hear that climatological models are saying this, how accurate are they?”

But that hardly explains why so many meteorologists have disregarded the mountain of evidence of global warming that has already occurred—or why, in the case of the hard-line skeptics, they are so fixated on proving a few data sets’ worth of tree-ring and ice core measurements wrong. “I think a lot of people have theories,” Robert Henson says, “but nobody knows for sure.”

In the absence of a clear answer, several institutions—the National Environmental Education Foundation (NEEF), the Yale Forum on Climate Change & the Media, and the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research among them—have decided that education is the problem, and have launched projects aimed at teaching the weathercasters the basics of climatology. All proceed from the assumption that unreachable skeptics like Coleman are few and far between, and that most meteorologists are more uncertain than adamant, lost amid the Internet’s slurry of fact and counterfact. “While there is a group that seems to have made up their mind about climate change, there’s still a substantial portion that’s interested in learning more,” says Sara Espinoza, a program director at NEET. The AMS—which finds its credibility threatened by its televised emissaries a second time—is working with NEEF on a do-it-yourself climate science education package for meteorologists that points them to government data and peer-reviewed research. It is part of the AMS’s broader “station scientist” program, which aims to give meteorologists the tools they need to become the go-to authorities in their newsrooms on all scientific subjects, not just the weather. In essence, it is a doubling down on the wager that the AMS made fifty-five years ago: if viewers are going to assume weathercasters are experts anyway, we might as well try to make them experts.

It remains a laudable goal. But in my own conversations with skeptical meteorologists, I began to think that that earlier effort had helped create the problem in the first place.

Read the whole thing…

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1656 comments
1 freetoken  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:11:44pm

It has always struck me as strange that the TV personalities known as "weathermen" would be such a fountain of AGW-denial when the American Meteorological Society itself is, as with other mainstream scientific bodies, quite accepting of the evidence for AGW.

2 LibertyvilleMike  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:22:30pm

Maybe they know what they're talking about? No, strike that. Obviously Al Gore (BA, Journalism) knows much more about CAGW.

3 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:26:16pm

Doesn't Rupert Murdoch own the Weather Channel?

4 RealismRox  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:27:30pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

Doesn't Rupert Murdoch own the Weather Channel?

No, it's owned by NBC Universal.

FWIW, I always thought weathermen were idiots.

5 SixDegrees  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:27:42pm

I thought Karl Rove controlled the weather.

/

6 freetoken  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:28:53pm

re: #4 RealismRox

No, it's owned by NBC Universal.

Along with SyFy...

7 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:32:56pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

Doesn't Rupert Murdoch own the Weather Channel?

/yes but Dick Cheney owns the weather...

8 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:36:25pm

re: #5 SixDegrees

I thought Karl Rove controlled the weather.

/

Who controls the Earthquake Maker?

9 SixDegrees  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:39:23pm

re: #8 MandyManners

Who controls the Earthquake Maker?

Dick Cheney. He's Vader to Rove's Emperor.

Seriously. I saw it all documented at DU one time. /

10 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:42:46pm

Here’s a little analogy to consider, in distinguishing climate and weather. When I set off on my daily commute, I have to go through a couple of dozen traffic lights. I have no way of knowing if any given one will be red, yellow, or green when I come up to it. There’s no way of predicting what the next light will be. But, if I were to keep a tally of what the lights were over time, patterns would emerge. If everyone who traveled the same route kept track of the lights over a period of time, then even clearer patterns would emerge. So it is with weather and climate. A lot of random particulars add up to a coherent whole.

11 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:42:54pm

re: #9 SixDegrees

Dick Cheney. He's Vader to Rove's Emperor.

Seriously. I saw it all documented at DU one time. /

They're both magnificent bastards.

12 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:43:11pm
...and indeed, when I spoke with meteorologists who were skeptical of or uncertain about the scientific consensus...

And so am I, considering it changes among the collective agreement of different groups of scientist at times, as we have seen recently.

13 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:47:11pm

re: #10 The Sanity Inspector

Here’s a little analogy to consider, in distinguishing climate and weather. When I set off on my daily commute, I have to go through a couple of dozen traffic lights. I have no way of knowing if any given one will be red, yellow, or green when I come up to it. There’s no way of predicting what the next light will be. But, if I were to keep a tally of what the lights were over time, patterns would emerge. If everyone who traveled the same route kept track of the lights over a period of time, then even clearer patterns would emerge. So it is with weather and climate. A lot of random particulars add up to a coherent whole.

/The Patterns are currently being reviewed & while it is not clear yet if traffic is moving faster or slower one thing remains certain. The cops are writing more tickets.

14 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:48:57pm

re: #4 RealismRox

No, it's owned by NBC Universal.

FWIW, I always thought weathermen were idiots.

Ahhh ,,, ya just harshed his buzz!!!
//

15 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:58:12pm

“There’s a lot of error and bias. We’ll use five different models and come back with five different things. So when we hear that climatological models are saying this, how accurate are they?”
But that hardly explains why so many meteorologists have disregarded the mountain of evidence of global warming that has already occurred..."

Would someone please explain that part to me... it seems to be going in 2 directions.

16 recusancy  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:59:08pm

Here's the sophistication of a weatherman on full display:

17 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 3:59:24pm

I always thought "TV Weathermen" were just, well, TV Weathermen.

18 Vambo  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:05:28pm

re: #2 LibertyvilleMike

Maybe they know what they're talking about? No, strike that. Obviously Al Gore (BA, Journalism) knows much more about CAGW.

awwwwww.

19 Vambo  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:06:57pm

ha! always funny to see when Charles' current music is the same as mine...

Charles: Waits, "Eyeball Kid"
Me: Waits, "Telephone Call from Istanbul"

20 kilroy  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:11:30pm

Are any of these weatherman also scientists or are they just talking heads ?

21 recusancy  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:11:32pm

re: #2 LibertyvilleMike

His BA was in government not journalism.

22 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:11:40pm

re: #8 MandyManners

Who controls the Earthquake Maker?

The turtle?

23 freetoken  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:12:34pm

re: #17 Naso Tang

I thought "Weathermen" were terrorists...

24 recusancy  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:12:47pm

re: #12 Walter L. Newton

And so am I, considering it changes among the collective agreement of different groups of scientist at times, as we have seen recently.

Hu?

25 freetoken  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:13:27pm

re: #24 recusancy

Hu?

China?

26 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:13:31pm

re: #23 freetoken

I thought "Weathermen" were terrorists...

No, they were insurgents.

27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:15:09pm

re: #20 kilroy

I'm a fan (for a lack of a better word) of Jim Cantore; he is a bunch more than a talking head on the Weather Channel.

Smart guy.

28 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:15:59pm

re: #23 freetoken

I thought "Weathermen" were terrorists...

were are not supposed to remember that...

29 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:16:01pm

re: #24 recusancy

Go down about four threads and find out yourself.

30 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:16:08pm

re: #20 kilroy

Are any of these weatherman also scientists or are they just talking heads ?

Some of them are neither.

31 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:16:53pm

re: #26 Naso Tang

No, they were insurgents.

But they were actually criminals.

32 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:17:34pm

re: #31 The Sanity Inspector

But they were actually criminals.

not supposed to remember that...

33 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:19:41pm

re: #26 Naso Tang

No, they were insurgents.

Tenured, nowadays.

Always out there, the United States, an unacknowledged part of the world picture of every kind of modern revolutionary: the country of law and rest, with which at the end of the day a man who had proclaimed himself to be on the other side--in politics, culture, or religion--could make peace and on whose goodwill he could throw himself.
--V.S. Naipaul, Beyond Belief, 1998

34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:20:28pm

Politically incorrect moment of the day. A Chinese friend of mine just posted this on her facebook...

Shovering Snow - the very first time in my entire life!! Gosh!! Not easy!! Even just for 5 minutes, my arms are hurting!! I'd better stay inside, open the front door, and just be the cheer leader and bring up a zip of hot coffee!!! Go!! Snow Shoverer!! You rock!!

Okay... here's my question. Should I correct her? Or should I give her Anglo friends time to have fun with this?

35 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:20:51pm

re: #31 The Sanity Inspector

But they were actually criminals.

They were just misguided and should have been sent to art classes like they do in Saudi, or insane asylums like they do in Russia.

36 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:22:24pm

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Politically incorrect moment of the day. A Chinese friend of mine just posted this on her facebook...

Shovering Snow - the very first time in my entire life!! Gosh!! Not easy!! Even just for 5 minutes, my arms are hurting!! I'd better stay inside, open the front door, and just be the cheer leader and bring up a zip of hot coffee!!! Go!! Snow Shoverer!! You rock!!

Okay... here's my question. Should I correct her? Or should I give her Anglo friends time to have fun with this?

play along or she might just kick you ass...

37 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:24:02pm

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I didn't know the Chinese had trouble typing Ls as well as speaking them.

38 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:24:53pm

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Politically incorrect moment of the day. A Chinese friend of mine just posted this on her facebook...

Shovering Snow - the very first time in my entire life!! Gosh!! Not easy!! Even just for 5 minutes, my arms are hurting!! I'd better stay inside, open the front door, and just be the cheer leader and bring up a zip of hot coffee!!! Go!! Snow Shoverer!! You rock!!

Okay... here's my question. Should I correct her? Or should I give her Anglo friends time to have fun with this?

I used to laugh at Engrish, until I considered that the speaker's English was streets better than my Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Thai was ever going to be.

39 libertyvillemike  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:26:47pm

re: #21 recusancy

Man, you're right. Well, with a BA in government and experience as a journalist, I guess he does know what he's talking about.

40 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:27:00pm

re: #35 Naso Tang

They were just misguided and should have been sent to art classes like they do in Saudi, or insane asylums like they do in Russia.

it does kinda still lurk in the minds of a lot of people...

41 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:27:44pm

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Politically incorrect moment of the day. A Chinese friend of mine just posted this on her facebook...

Shovering Snow - the very first time in my entire life!! Gosh!! Not easy!! Even just for 5 minutes, my arms are hurting!! I'd better stay inside, open the front door, and just be the cheer leader and bring up a zip of hot coffee!!! Go!! Snow Shoverer!! You rock!!

Okay... here's my question. Should I correct her? Or should I give her Anglo friends time to have fun with this?

Thought never occured to you to go shovel for her, did it, ya fat bastard!!!

//

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:28:31pm

re: #41 sattv4u2

Thought never occured to you to go shovel for her, did it, ya fat bastard!!!

//

Not for a single scintilla of a moment.

43 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:28:58pm

re: #41 sattv4u2

Thought never occured to you to go shovel for her, did it, ya fat bastard!!!

//

there is no Chinese word for pie....

44 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:29:12pm

*sigh* Boomers still fighting over Vietnam.


Hey, guys, it was 48 years ago!

45 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:30:48pm

re: #35 Naso Tang

They were just misguided and should have been sent to art classes like they do in Saudi, or insane asylums like they do in Russia.

Now I'm getting wound up. Sixties radicals, grrr...

...the people who substitute doctrine for knowledge and irritation for concern, the revolutionaries who visit centers of revolution with return air tickets, the hippies, the people who wish themselves on societies more fragile than their own, all those people who in the end do no more than celebrate their own security.
-- V. S. Naipaul, The Writer and the World, 2002

46 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:31:00pm

re: #44 windsagio

*sigh* Boomers still fighting over Vietnam.

Hey, guys, it was 48 years ago!

justice delayed is justice denied...

47 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:31:44pm

re: #40 brookly red

it does kinda still lurk in the minds of a lot of people...

Been a long time since I was over at Daily Kos. How are things there?

48 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:31:49pm

re: #43 brookly red

there is no Chinese word for pie...

There is no British word for food that is not a pie.

49 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:33:13pm

re: #44 windsagio

*sigh* Boomers still fighting over Vietnam.


Hey, guys, it was 48 years ago!

And yet more relevent than yesterday.

50 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:33:18pm

re: #47 Naso Tang

Been a long time since I was over at Daily Kos. How are things there?

wouldn't know...
Did you know that the Farsi word for female genitalia is Kos?

51 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:33:47pm

re: #46 brookly red

Or we could worry about any number of current issues instead of digging up long-harmless boogiemen from the past >>

Hell, at least Tipper Gore and the PMRC are only 20 years old!

52 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:34:20pm

re: #49 The Shadow Do

lol name one way the Weathermen are relevant to today. I'm curious.

53 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:34:21pm

re: #48 The Shadow Do

There is no British word for food that is not a pie.

banger?

54 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:34:41pm

re: #53 brookly red

Tea! (or is that a drink?)

55 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:35:14pm

OT on an OT thread...

Dammit, does Bobby Flay never lose a throwdown? And what would happen if he did?

56 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:35:41pm

re: #45 The Sanity Inspector

the people who wish themselves on societies more fragile than their own

I like that one. I can think of a few categories it applies to aside from hippies.

57 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:35:41pm

re: #51 windsagio

Or we could worry about any number of current issues instead of digging up long-harmless boogiemen from the past >>

Hell, at least Tipper Gore and the PMRC are only 20 years old!

unpunished criminals are a current issue...

58 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:35:55pm

re: #52 windsagio

lol name one way the Weathermen are relevant to today. I'm curious.

Just jumped in so evidently lost all context. Sorry about that.

59 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:36:01pm

re: #55 The Shadow Do

Yes, he has. He was gracious and fun in his loss.

60 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:36:01pm

This article is a strawman. The beliefs of weatherman are about as important as Hollywood celebrities. Most weatherman are not scientist, I know this, people know this. There are some actual climatologists among them, but this author doesn't correlate those who are actual scientist and their beliefs. This article was written by someone who already had his opinion set and ran with it.

61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:36:18pm

re: #55 The Shadow Do

When he whipped the bartender it kind of pissed me off. That's the only episode I've ever seen.

62 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:36:23pm

re: #53 brookly red

banger?

I give you banger pie.

63 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:36:39pm

re: #50 brookly red

wouldn't know...
Did you know that the Farsi word for female genitalia is Kos?

No, but I dare you to take that post over there.

64 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:36:57pm

re: #62 The Shadow Do

I give you banger pie.

back the fuk up dude///

65 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:36:59pm

re: #55 The Shadow Do

OT on an OT thread...

Dammit, does Bobby Flay never lose a throwdown? And what would happen if he did?

he'd throw UP !?!?!

66 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:37:46pm

re: #63 Naso Tang

No, but I dare you to take that post over there.

and why would I want to do that? to please you? not high on my to do list...

67 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:38:29pm

re: #60 Walter L. Newton

yeah, but it ran all the way to LGF, and here we are..

Feeling better now?

68 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:38:51pm

re: #58 The Shadow Do

sigh, you guys :p


Ehh, I guess its okay, I didn't really wanna get into a big fight, the response was just shocked out of me >

69 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:39:07pm
70 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:40:28pm

re: #67 Naso Tang

yeah, but it ran all the way to LGF, and here we are..

Feeling better now?

Try me?

71 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:40:31pm

re: #60 Walter L. Newton

It would be really useful to separate the TV weathermen from the credentialed meteorologists who report the weather on air. See what the educated "weathermen" have to say. Otherwise they are chyron experts more than weather experts.

72 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:41:20pm

re: #69 MandyManners

that might be the best music video ever. I so love it.

73 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:42:27pm

re: #71 Rightwingconspirator

Haven't you always wanted to play with one of those?

74 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:42:47pm

re: #69 MandyManners

That was a nice blast from the past. Thanks.

75 allegro  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:43:23pm

re: #63 Naso Tang

No, but I dare you to take that post over there.

The implied misogyny is just as offensive here.

76 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:43:50pm

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

Try me?

Nope, just my clumsy sense of friendly humor. Relax.

77 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:43:53pm

The Obama administration is accelerating the deployment of new defenses against possible Iranian missile attacks in the Persian Gulf, placing special ships off the Iranian coast and antimissile systems in at least four Arab countries*, according to administration and military officials.

The deployments come at a critical turning point in President Obama’s dealings with Iran. He is warning that his diplomatic outreach will now be combined with the “consequences,” as he put it in the State of the Union address, of the country’s continued defiance on its nuclear program. The administration is trying to win broad international consensus for sanctions against the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps, which Western nations say controls the military side of the nuclear program.

SNIP

*Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Kuwait.

78 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:44:00pm

re: #73 windsagio

Yeah, it would be pretty cool to use. But ya know I see it as overused, distracting quite often, like the "magic wall" CNN has.

79 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:44:30pm

When a kid, growing up US military in England, my parents went on an extended tour of the Continent and left us with a nice young Brit couple, Peter and Sylvia. They were a hoot, in fact took me out for grapefruit juice at a local watering hole which left me staggering home and feeling rather odd. Didn't know why.

BUT, whatever Sylvia made for dinner was sure to come in a crust. My mom had left a pantry full of American canned goods that were presented daily en crute. Most memorable was 'cranberry sauce pie'. PTUiiiiiieeeee

80 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:45:28pm

re: #77 MandyManners

Mandy,
I read through that earlier and my first thought was the Navy would essentially cap Iran so Israel could strike. But the article says its about reassuring Israel it need not strike.

Which is your take?

81 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:45:31pm

re: #75 allegro

The implied misogyny is just as offensive here.

Oh, yeah I forgot... if you can't cry racism misogyny is good too...

82 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:45:50pm
83 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:46:05pm

re: #75 allegro

The implied misogyny is just as offensive here.

How is it misogyny? It may be a bit juvenile as humor, but I don't have a problem with that.

84 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:46:42pm

re: #76 Naso Tang

Nope, just my clumsy sense of friendly humor. Relax.

Just my pointed defense of looking for another head to bite off.

85 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:47:34pm

re: #80 Rightwingconspirator

I know you didn't ask me, but I'm gonna give my answer :P


I think they desperately don't want Israel to strike, because they think that Iran will collapse on its own soon, without something like that.

An attack by Israel is probably one of the things that could keep the Mullahs in power.

86 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:47:59pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

Just my pointed defense of looking for another head to bite off.

Quick, someone dis Lost!
///:)

87 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:48:03pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

If any trolls show up, you can have first dibs, ok?

88 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:48:43pm

re: #87 Naso Tang

If any trolls show up, you can have first dibs, ok?

Just call me Capt. Crunch.

89 allegro  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:49:10pm

re: #81 brookly red

Oh, yeah I forgot... if you can't cry racism misogyny is good too...

Thus, an exemplary example of "f*ck off b*tches". Got it.

90 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:49:12pm

re: #86 Varek Raith

I learned that lesson last night :p

Don't argue about something unless you know it well enough to fight back :)

91 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:49:30pm

re: #82 The Shadow Do

And that says all I need to know about seriously confronting Iran going nuclear.

I am not an O fan, but if he plays this right I could give the credit where it is due.

92 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:49:50pm

re: #80 Rightwingconspirator

Mandy,
I read through that earlier and my first thought was the Navy would essentially cap Iran so Israel could strike. But the article says its about reassuring Israel it need not strike.

Which is your take?

Beats me.

93 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:50:24pm

re: #82 The Shadow Do

And that says all I need to know about seriously confronting Iran going nuclear.

You think we'll strike?

94 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:50:35pm

re: #85 windsagio

I know you didn't ask me, but I'm gonna give my answer :P


I think they desperately don't want Israel to strike, because they think that Iran will collapse on its own soon, without something like that.

An attack by Israel is probably one of the things that could keep the Mullahs in power.

That is not 'thinking' by the administration. That is wishful thinking.

Crude but true, wish in on hand and shit in the other...

95 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:50:51pm

re: #89 allegro

Thus, an exemplary example of "f*ck off b*tches". Got it.

cry victim all you want, no one is buying it.

96 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:51:17pm

re: #86 Varek Raith

Quick, someone dis Lost!
///:)

If anyone is interested, ABC actually has released the first 4 minutes of the season opener. Since it is official canon from ABC, it's not considered spoiler. It doesn't really reveal anything that most fans didn't already suspect, but, if you are one of those fans that watches closely, and remember aspects of the pilot, you can have some fun with this short video... if you want to stay 100 percent free of any content before Tuesday night, stay away from this link...

[Link: www.docarzt.com...]

97 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:51:45pm

re: #94 The Shadow Do

Oh you!

I know I know, the current administration must be criticized, no matter what.

98 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:52:08pm

re: #93 MandyManners

You think we'll strike?

the weapons in question are defensive... hard to say.

99 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:52:11pm

re: #93 MandyManners

You think we'll strike?

Not a chance in hell.

100 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:53:00pm

If BHO kicks ShortShit's ass, I'll back him on that issue.

101 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:53:28pm

re: #97 windsagio

Oh you!

I know I know, the current administration must be criticized, no matter what.

About ships in the Gulf. Sounds like a good idea to me. Is that criticism?

102 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:53:37pm

re: #100 MandyManners

If BHO kicks ShortShit's ass, I'll back him on that issue.


I'd become his biggest fan!

103 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:54:03pm

re: #89 allegro

Thus, an exemplary example of "f*ck off b*tches". Got it.

What have you got against insulting men?

104 allegro  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:54:08pm

re: #83 Naso Tang

How is it misogyny? It may be a bit juvenile as humor, but I don't have a problem with that.

Let me 'splain it to you. Brookly red is clearly trying to disparage Kos in a negative way. This is done in the form of comparing Kos to female genitalia, quote...

Did you know that the Farsi word for female genitalia is Kos?

At the same time using a reference to Iran... though that is besides the female perspective. Thus, directly and definitively a misogynist statement. Get it?

105 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:54:30pm

re: #97 windsagio

Oh you!

I know I know, the current administration must be criticized, no matter what.

No, you mistake me. I too wish that Iran would stand down and would jump for joy for the President should that occur. How do you see the odds of that? Hope is not a foreign policy in my book.

106 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:54:31pm

re: #98 brookly red

the weapons in question are defensive... hard to say.

What other ships do wehave in the area?

107 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:54:39pm

re: #85 windsagio

I do not think Israel will pull a first strike. Not even conventional. Obama has worked this out. He is a reason they won't. If they did, few leading mullahs would exist there. It's difficult for a cloud of airborne debris to govern.

I suspect this is a show of force to play power politics with a rock solid anti missile force. Imagine this-Some nation like Iran or NK launches a missile attack, and the Navy sweeps the rockets from the sky. The attacker is chastened and the victim has no reason to counter strike.

108 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:54:54pm

re: #106 MandyManners

What other ships do wehave in the area?

Who is "wehave?"

109 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:55:20pm

re: #101 Walter L. Newton

is your name 'the shadow do'?

Not everything I say is pointed at you, Walter ;)


On the other hand, I thought those anti-missile systems were really unreliable (altho I"m not an expert). If thats right, I wonder if he can convince Israel of their safety...

110 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:55:26pm

re: #99 The Shadow Do

Not a chance in hell.

We'll see. This from the article:

By highlighting the defensive nature of the buildup the administration was hoping to avoid a sharp response from Tehran.

111 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:55:40pm

re: #102 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'd become his biggest fan!

For me, only on this issue.

112 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:55:57pm

re: #103 Naso Tang

What have you got against insulting men?

Nothing, dick head.

113 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:56:05pm

re: #109 windsagio

They're not unreliable.
;)

114 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:56:40pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

Who is "wehave?"

Notme's best friend.

115 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:56:40pm

re: #106 MandyManners

What other ships do wehave in the area?

the Nina, the Pinta....

116 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:56:43pm

re: #109 windsagio

is your name 'the shadow do'?

Not everything I say is pointed at you, Walter ;)

On the other hand, I thought those anti-missile systems were really unreliable (altho I"m not an expert). If thats right, I wonder if he can convince Israel of their safety...

I'm sorry.

117 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:57:12pm

re: #107 Rightwingconspirator

exactly what I'm thinking. Its a good tactic.

re: #105 The Shadow Do

Oh, ok I did misread you, the line isn't "Hate Obama", its "Iran's leadership is all suicidally insane".

/

118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:57:47pm

re: #112 MandyManners

Up-ding for comedic effect. Nicely played, Mandy.

119 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:58:25pm

re: #98 brookly red

Not really. Those ships have Standard missiles-defensive yes. But they also have Harpoon and Cruise missiles. The Standard is dual use-offensive or defensive. ARM in one model, anti missile in another.

120 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:58:26pm

re: #113 Varek Raith

oh I'm confusing it with the ICBM shield stuff, I guess. Altho, 'far as I can tell those might work too :)

121 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:58:36pm

re: #115 brookly red

the Nina, the Pinta...

But, not the Santa Maria?

122 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:58:48pm

re: #115 brookly red

the Nina, the Pinta...

Misogynist...

123 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:58:57pm

re: #104 allegro

At the same time using a reference to Iran... though that is besides the female perspective. Thus, directly and definitively a misogynist statement. Get it?

get a life.

124 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:59:15pm

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

lol the kos thing struck me as kinda messed up, but that was funny :p

125 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:59:18pm

re: #104 allegro

At the same time using a reference to Iran... though that is besides the female perspective. Thus, directly and definitively a misogynist statement. Get it?

I got it even before you posted and I think you have got a wee little problem with some kind of frustration, like too much PC in your system. Lighten up.

126 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 4:59:39pm

re: #121 MandyManners

But, not the Santa Maria?

Sush, that's a secret....

127 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:00:10pm

Don't we still have a carrier group in the gulf, also? I admit I don't follow these things well, and its more fun to ask than to look it up :)

128 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:00:33pm

It's an insult to call someone that slang word for a vagina and it's an insult to call someone the slang word for a penis.

129 allegro  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:01:01pm

re: #103 Naso Tang

What have you got against insulting men?

Can you show me a single example of where I have done so?

130 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:01:02pm

re: #112 MandyManners

Nothing, dick head.

Thank you, hon, for equalizing the equation a bit.

131 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:01:09pm

re: #128 MandyManners

It's an insult to call someone that slang word for a vagina and it's an insult to call someone the slang word for a penis.

Thats actually the key I think.

Its insulting, but its not misogynistic.

132 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:01:43pm

re: #11 MandyManners

They're both magnificent bastards.

Ehh I'd argue that the most Rove ever really figured out was how to shout "BOOO!" at the voters via color coded charts.

No Dick Cheney managed to shoot a guy in the face, and the guy appologized to him. THAT IS some MAGNIFICENT BASTARDY!

133 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:01:53pm

re: #119 Rightwingconspirator

Not really. Those ships have Standard missiles-defensive yes. But they also have Harpoon and Cruise missiles. The Standard is dual use-offensive or defensive. ARM in one model, anti missile in another.

True they can support, but a Harpoon can't take out a nuke facility, well not unless, well you know...

134 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:02:22pm

NOTE TO MY CO-WORKERS

do NOT leave an open bag of cookies in the control room when you know I'm here alone for 14 hours on a Saturday!!

135 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:02:32pm

re: #128 MandyManners

altho, it makes me think, how do you describe the rudeness of calling someone a c- ?

136 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:02:51pm

re: #134 sattv4u2

NOTE TO MY CO-WORKERS

do NOT leave an open bag of cookies in the control room when you know I'm here alone for 14 hours on a Saturday!!

It is now an EMPTY open bag of cookies

137 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:02:52pm

re: #129 allegro

Can you show me a single example of where I have done so?

You misunderstood me, but it gets complicated and I suspect we are wearing this one out, after Mandy comes back.

138 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:03:04pm

re: #127 windsagio

Don't we still have a carrier group in the gulf, also? I admit I don't follow these things well, and its more fun to ask than to look it up :)

Google Fifth Fleet.

139 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:03:05pm

re: #117 windsagio

exactly what I'm thinking. Its a good tactic.

re: #105 The Shadow Do

Oh, ok I did misread you, the line isn't "Hate Obama", its "Iran's leadership is all suicidally insane".

/

Neither said nor implied that either. I do not think they are insane. Why do you claim that as my position? Au contraire Iran, I believe, has made the calculation quite correctly. With nucs they are defacto the preeminant and driving power in the ME. Folks can measure that fact differently of course. Some don't even see that as a negative I wager.

140 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:03:07pm

re: #134 sattv4u2

NOTE TO MY CO-WORKERS

do NOT leave an open bag of cookies in the control room when you know I'm here alone for 14 hours on a Saturday!!

Commence Nom nom nom!

141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:03:40pm

Wife and daughter are watching Miss America. Which means, I am watching Miss America.

Does that make me a misogynist?

142 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:04:08pm

re: #131 windsagio

Thats actually the key I think.

Its insulting, but its not misogynistic.

Well, when you call somone that slang for a vagina, doesn't it mean that the person is weak?

143 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:04:08pm

re: #141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wife and daughter are watching Miss America. Which means, I am watching Miss America.

Does that make me a misogynist?

go shovel the snow

144 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:04:56pm

re: #48 The Shadow Do

There is no British word for food that is not a pie.

Pudding?

145 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:05:00pm

re: #128 MandyManners

It's an insult to call someone that slang word for a vagina and it's an insult to call someone the slang word for a penis.

Kos is not a slang word, it is the clinical term for vagina... it's slang application would be prostitute, but that is another story.

146 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:05:05pm

re: #133 brookly red
Harpoon is what would sink their ships. I wonder if global strike is working yet? I mean the trident submarine missiles with the nukes removed and precision penetrators installed. Solid tungsten at 5,000 mph.

147 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:05:16pm

re: #135 windsagio

altho, it makes me think, how do you describe the rudeness of calling someone a c- ?

I went to jail the last time someone called me that. Laid that stupid fucker out on the floor.

148 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:05:34pm

re: #134 sattv4u2

Got Milk!?

149 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:05:36pm

re: #144 jamesfirecat

Pudding?

And I give you pudding pie...

150 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:06:09pm

re: #57 brookly red

unpunished criminals are a current issue...

What's the statue of limitations on the crime he "committed"?

151 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:06:14pm

re: #139 The Shadow Do

sarc tag dude, look 'em up :p

As to your point, theres that whole thing with the Israeli nukes. Or Pakistani nukes. They certainly think it increases their prestige, but they also think it'll protect them from a preemptive nuclear strike from Israel.

PS: Mandy, I hate you :P it was funny tho :)

152 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:06:27pm

re: #145 brookly red

Kos is not a slang word, it is the clinical term for vagina... it's slang application would be prostitute, but that is another story.

The slang in Farsi means prostitute? Wowza. That's some serious misogyny.

153 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:07:50pm

Debra Medina, Republican candidate for governor of Texas, is running a banner ad on Stormfront.
Tea Party!

154 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:07:51pm

re: #150 jamesfirecat

What's the statue of limitations on the crime he "committed"?

don't matter he got off... see "Guilty as Hell, Free as a Bird"

155 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:08:40pm

re: #152 MandyManners

The slang in Farsi means prostitute? Wowza. That's some serious misogyny.

I did not name the site, I just translated it...

156 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:08:46pm

re: #151 windsagio

sarc tag dude, look 'em up :p

As to your point, theres that whole thing with the Israeli nukes. Or Pakistani nukes. They certainly think it increases their prestige, but they also think it'll protect them from a preemptive nuclear strike from Israel.

PS: Mandy, I hate you :P it was funny tho :)

Iran is defending themselves from Israel? I did not know that.

157 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:09:07pm

re: #147 MandyManners

Oh, I know its RUDE!

*also I'm confused, I thought we were agreeing then you turned it around on me ;)

~~~

As I think about it, the misogyny mainly comes when (per brookly's example) you're reducing the woman to their sexual function...

158 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:09:27pm

re: #155 brookly red

I did not name the site, I just translated it...

I'm talking about "kos" in Farsi.

If Dickhead were around I'd ask him.

159 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:10:05pm

re: #156 The Shadow Do

Iran is defending themselves from Israel? I did not know that.

... should have read, Iran is defending themselves from nuclear attack from Israel.

160 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:10:06pm

re: #127 windsagio

Yes we do and it is the biggest can of whup ass in the hemisphere. Do you recall every time a second battle group arrived near the gulf there were predictions GWB was about to strike Iran?
FAIL.

161 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:10:38pm

re: #157 windsagio

Oh, I know its RUDE!

*also I'm confused, I thought we were agreeing then you turned it around on me ;)

~~~

As I think about it, the misogyny mainly comes when (per brookly's example) you're reducing the woman to their sexual function...

IIRC, using it got someone banned here a few years ago.

162 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:10:52pm

re: #156 The Shadow Do

In their minds sure.

Imagine if you had a hostile nuclear power nearby you. Wouldn't you want to be able to retaliate, if nothing else, to scare them off?

*Note: For this exercise remove the merits of Israel and Iran from the Equation. Imagine its... Chile and Argentina or something.

163 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:11:56pm

re: #161 MandyManners

believe me I'm not about to try :p

Just was thinking of the rudest possible term on the subject, kinda stretching the point.

164 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:12:07pm

Lots of cranky lizards today. Maybe they should be checked.

165 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:12:14pm

re: #161 MandyManners

IIRC, using it got someone banned here a few years ago.

A male c*** if ever there was, by the way.

166 exelwood  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:12:23pm

Yes, re-education camps for climatologists!

167 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:12:37pm

re: #162 windsagio

In their minds sure.

Imagine if you had a hostile nuclear power nearby you. Wouldn't you want to be able to retaliate, if nothing else, to scare them off?

*Note: For this exercise remove the merits of Israel and Iran from the Equation. Imagine its... Chile and Argentina or something.

Israel is not the one threatening to shove Iran into the Med.

168 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:12:45pm

re: #166 exelwood

Yes, re-education camps for climatologists!

Nante???

169 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:13:37pm

re: #154 brookly red

don't matter he got off... see "Guilty as Hell, Free as a Bird"

Well then who are we to keep bringing him up? The best thing to do is watch in silence, be ready to act if it look like he's gonna commit another crime, but otherwise give them no reason to think we're watching.


Though I suppose we managed to catch OJ doing whatever the hell it was in Vegas even without taking such measures....

170 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:13:38pm

re: #158 MandyManners

I'm talking about "kos" in Farsi.

If Dickhead were around I'd ask him.

You called?

171 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:13:41pm

re: #163 windsagio

believe me I'm not about to try :p

Just was thinking of the rudest possible term on the subject, kinda stretching the point.

Chaucer used it.

172 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:13:54pm

re: #135 windsagio

Exactly the way she did. Hey Mandy if you ever need bail for that, I'd be happy to help. Think of the pay per view possibilities...:)

173 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:14:04pm

re: #165 The Shadow Do

I don't use that word against my worst enemy.

174 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:14:27pm

re: #170 Naso Tang

You called?

HAHAHA!

No, my X.

175 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:14:39pm

re: #167 MandyManners

nono, read the bottom part. Thats exactly the response I was trying to head off :P

Imagine you were Chile, Argentina was hostile, and they had nukes while you didn't. Wouldn't you want to develop your own nukes?

176 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:14:53pm

re: #162 windsagio

In their minds sure.

Imagine if you had a hostile nuclear power nearby you. Wouldn't you want to be able to retaliate, if nothing else, to scare them off?

*Note: For this exercise remove the merits of Israel and Iran from the Equation. Imagine its... Chile and Argentina or something.

Israel is a hostile nuclear power?

Is this some sort of statement about Israeli aggression? Israel has pushed Iran into this position? I'm all ears...

177 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:15:40pm

re: #166 exelwood

Yes, re-education camps for climatologists!

Its not even that far from what I understood its a kit that you send to people, so in typical lazy liberal pass the buck fashion we expect the climatologists to re-educate themselves...

178 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:15:52pm

Getting pretty nasty in the US Weather Stations thread...

179 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:16:00pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Bust me later if I'm wrong but the correct description will be LOSING candidate. What a low life. To me that is about as welcome as Osama on AGW.

180 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:16:01pm

re: #173 MandyManners

I don't use that word against my worst enemy.

Nor I

181 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:16:14pm

re: #175 windsagio

nono, read the bottom part. Thats exactly the response I was trying to head off :P

Imagine you were Chile, Argentina was hostile, and they had nukes while you didn't. Wouldn't you want to develop your own nukes?

Israel is NOT hostile.

182 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:17:21pm

re: #176 The Shadow Do

*sigh*

To state it again, you have to look at things the way they do.

To them, Israel seems like a hostile power.

183 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:17:55pm

re: #182 windsagio

*sigh*

To state it again, you have to look at things the way they do.

To them, Israel seems like a hostile power.

They're projecting.

184 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:18:47pm

re: #169 jamesfirecat

Well then who are we to keep bringing him up? The best thing to do is watch in silence, be ready to act if it look like he's gonna commit another crime, but otherwise give them no reason to think we're watching.

Though I suppose we managed to catch OJ doing whatever the hell it was in Vegas even without taking such measures...

True, my only issue is that some people wish to act like it never happened... it did and many, many people still hold it against the current administration. OK you can argue that they shouldn't but that doesn't change the fact that many do. Me, I am done with it.

185 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:20:27pm

re: #162 windsagio

In their minds sure.

Imagine if you had a hostile nuclear power nearby you. Wouldn't you want to be able to retaliate, if nothing else, to scare them off?

*Note: For this exercise remove the merits of Israel and Iran from the Equation. Imagine its... Chile and Argentina or something.

Or something? I can't think of a comparable situation where essentially every nearby country is hostile, peace treaty or not.

The merits, if you can call them that, of Iran v Israel are unique, not to mention the merit of the Iranian leadership being religiously insane.

186 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:21:31pm

re: #182 windsagio

*sigh*

To state it again, you have to look at things the way they do.

To them, Israel seems like a hostile power.


maybe they should stop arming Hammas, Hezbola, Syria ect. just a thought.

187 exelwood  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:21:41pm

re: #161 MandyManners

IIRC, using it got someone banned here a few years ago.

Yet calling someone an asshole is an accepted expression of intellectual discourse. Interesting.

188 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:22:11pm

re: #183 MandyManners

Well to some degree. While I agree that Israel certainly doesn't want to invade or conquer anyone, they have this history of preemptively attacking other countries to defend themselves. That tends to rub people the wrong way.


/and yes I understand why they do it, and it was wise to do. But it has an effect on how people in the other countries see them.

189 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:22:29pm

re: #182 windsagio

*sigh*

To state it again, you have to look at things the way they do.

To them, Israel seems like a hostile power.

So let's cut to the chase. Is Iran benign in your view?

For myself, empathy ends with threats of extermination.

190 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:22:52pm

re: #179 Rightwingconspirator

Agreed, I don't think she has a chance. I'm not sure how governor's races work but I sure hope she isn't sending gop money to stormfront.

191 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:23:11pm

re: #184 brookly red

True, my only issue is that some people wish to act like it never happened... it did and many, many people still hold it against the current administration. OK you can argue that they shouldn't but that doesn't change the fact that many do. Me, I am done with it.

I think you're right that's its wrong to hold it against the current administration because Obama didn't meet Ayrs until after he had committed his acts been found not guilty, and more or less rehabilitated himself to the point that it doesn't seem likely he's gonna start bombing buildings again.

Thus its a non issue as the only Bill Ayrs Obama ever met/worked with was an upstanding citizen more or less.

192 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:23:29pm

OT : The excellent Charlie Brooker again, this time exposing the medias use of and reliance on 'renta-jihadi gobshite' Anjem Choudhary for the purpose of whipping up hysteria:

193 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:23:46pm

re: #188 windsagio

Look, they were invaded when they were formed, unprovoked. They can't possibly be hated anymore than they already are by their neighbors.

194 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:24:09pm

re: #188 windsagio

Well to some degree. While I agree that Israel certainly doesn't want to invade or conquer anyone, they have this history of preemptively attacking other countries to defend themselves. That tends to rub people the wrong way.


/and yes I understand why they do it, and it was wise to do. But it has an effect on how people in the other countries see them.

If you don't want your ass kicked by Israel, you don't line up with a bunch of other nations to invade.

195 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:24:36pm

re: #189 The Shadow Do

Lol, of course not.

BUT! We have to strike a careful balance. I strongly feel that, if we play it right, they'll take care of themselves.

It seems to me that the biggest danger at this point is that they try to engender a war with a hated enemy just to keep in power. They almost need a war at this point (or something they can call an atrocity), to keep control.

196 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:24:43pm

re: #191 jamesfirecat

I think you're right that's its wrong to hold it against the current administration because Obama didn't meet Ayrs until after he had committed his acts been found not guilty, and more or less rehabilitated himself to the point that it doesn't seem likely he's gonna start bombing buildings again.

Thus its a non issue as the only Bill Ayrs Obama ever met/worked with was an upstanding citizen more or less.

Ayers was NOT found not guilty.

197 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:26:26pm

re: #194 MandyManners

re: #193 Varek Raith

Man, I do not know why I keep letting myself get sucked into these things. They always go exactly the same way :P

198 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:27:21pm

re: #197 windsagio

re: #193 Varek Raith

Man, I do not know why I keep letting myself get sucked into these things. They always go exactly the same way :P

Cause you like it????
/:)

199 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:27:30pm

re: #197 windsagio

We're a rather pro-Israel group.

200 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:28:37pm

re: #196 MandyManners

Ayers was NOT found not guilty.

I kinda feel the issue is like rock & roll... if someone doesn't get it, well they just don't get it.

201 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:29:29pm

re: #196 MandyManners

Ayers was NOT found not guilty.

Oh then what exactly was he?

TO THE WIKIPEDIA MOBILE!

DUNA-NANA-NANA-NANA-WIKIPEDIA!


Huh, looks like he wasn't charged because the FBI f***ed up its investigation. I have that right?

202 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:31:08pm

re: #188 windsagio

Well to some degree. While I agree that Israel certainly doesn't want to invade or conquer anyone, they have this history of preemptively attacking other countries to defend themselves. That tends to rub people the wrong way.

/and yes I understand why they do it, and it was wise to do. But it has an effect on how people in the other countries see them.

If it was wise to do, then what are they supposed to do about the effect it has on how people see them? And is it possible that they are made to do it because someone wants to make people see them that way?

203 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:31:13pm

re: #201 jamesfirecat

Oh then what exactly was he?

TO THE WIKIPEDIA MOBILE!

DUNA-NANA-NANA-NANA-WIKIPEDIA!


Huh, looks like he wasn't charged because the FBI f***ed up its investigation. I have that right?

IIRC, the charges were dropped because the information was obtained without a proper search warrant.

204 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:31:40pm

Gonna take a legal dose of crystal meth... also known as Nyquil.

See ya later, taters!

205 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:31:47pm

re: #199 MandyManners

Oh I know :P


The problem is that you can't even discuss something on which somebody else has attacked Israel in the past without garnering the responses against those people.


The psychology of the Iranian people and government is probably the most important piece of this puzzle, and we have to get it right to navigate this maze properly.

206 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:32:24pm

re: #204 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Gonna take a legal dose of crystal meth... also known as Nyquil.

See ya later, taters!

/It's made from pork fat!

no just kidding

207 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:32:28pm

re: #203 MandyManners

IIRC, the charges were dropped because the information was obtained without a proper search warrant.

Yeah that's about what Wikipedia said more or less saying the evidence they got against him was illegally obtained so they dropped the charges...

208 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:32:40pm

re: #201 jamesfirecat

Oh then what exactly was he?

TO THE WIKIPEDIA MOBILE!

DUNA-NANA-NANA-NANA-WIKIPEDIA!

Huh, looks like he wasn't charged because the FBI f***ed up its investigation. I have that right?

Yeah. And that's why we became very careful never to create classes of criminal terrorists who could never be properly brought to justice.

209 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:33:03pm

re: #195 windsagio

Lol, of course not.

BUT! We have to strike a careful balance. I strongly feel that, if we play it right, they'll take care of themselves.

It seems to me that the biggest danger at this point is that they try to engender a war with a hated enemy just to keep in power. They almost need a war at this point (or something they can call an atrocity), to keep control.

You have a good heart. Of course it is a weakness in my view. None of this is personal. I just see a world of hurt ahead. Things will continue to bend and then they will break. Hope will not change any of it. Same as it ever was.

210 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:33:21pm

re: #204 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Gonna take a legal dose of crystal meth... also known as Nyquil.

See ya later, taters!

Going down early, FBV! Enjoy the knockout.

211 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:34:09pm

re: #205 windsagio

Oh I know :P


The problem is that you can't even discuss something on which somebody else has attacked Israel in the past without garnering the responses against those people.


The psychology of the Iranian people and government is probably the most important piece of this puzzle, and we have to get it right to navigate this maze properly.

Uh, no, we don't. All we have to do is to back up Israel.

212 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:34:36pm

re: #207 jamesfirecat

Yeah that's about what Wikipedia said more or less saying the evidence they got against him was illegally obtained so they dropped the charges...

And it was a bloody fucking shame.

213 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:34:40pm

re: #209 The Shadow Do

"you have a good heart"

What?


PS Varek: I curse you for making me look at that other thread. CURSE!

214 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:35:19pm

re: #211 MandyManners

Ok then! There's no reason to continue this conversation!

215 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:35:50pm

re: #213 windsagio

"you have a good heart"

What?

PS Varek: I curse you for making me look at that other thread. CURSE!

Sorry! I reported comments by people I thought I'd never have to report...
:(

216 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:37:19pm

re: #214 windsagio

Ok then! There's no reason to continue this conversation!

I wonder how the Shah got on with Israel.

217 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:37:58pm

re: #214 windsagio

Ok then! There's no reason to continue this conversation!

Well I do agree that winning hearts & minds is the best way to go. But kicking asses is always the plan B, no?

218 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:38:27pm

re: #213 windsagio

Yes, you have a good heart. You want the best outcome but seem to place an inordinate confidence in hope and such. Regimes are never hoped out of power, none that I can recall anyway.

219 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:38:47pm

re: #134 sattv4u2

NOTE TO MY CO-WORKERS

do NOT leave an open bag of cookies in the control room when you know I'm here alone for 14 hours on a Saturday!!

At least you cleaned up so the ants won't invade. I just got back from the hardware store with ammo against the ants. Surrounded the house and put traps in all their fave places inside too. This is the time of year they think I'm having a house party just for them.

220 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:39:19pm

re: #208 Decatur Deb

Yeah. And that's why we became very careful never to create classes of criminal terrorists who could never be properly brought to justice.

/does voting them out count as justice?

221 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:39:35pm

re: #216 MandyManners

See thats interestisng, I'll look it up :p


...

Hmm, he was a strong ally. 'Course, he's kinda the one that got us into this mess in the first place (per Iran).

222 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:39:58pm

re: #216 MandyManners

The Shah’s regime did not recognize Israel, but, nevertheless, the two countries maintained cordial relations. Israel had a permanent delegation in Tehran, which served as a de facto unofficial embassy. In the aftermath of the Six Day War, Israel transferred large amounts of oil from Iran to European markets via the Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline. In addition, Israel purchased a significant portion of its oil needs from Iran. Apparently, the two nations had numerous business transactions, although the extent of these dealings was never officially quantified. Also, Israeli construction firms were active in Iran. Iranian-Israeli military links were top-secret, but they are believed to have been wide-ranging.

223 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:41:17pm

Speaking of sexual slurs, Sharmuta was bold enough to go by the name she did! I never knew the history of that either. Are you around, Sharm?

224 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:41:32pm

re: #217 brookly red

sure. The problem is that the statement I was responding to says 'don't bother with any complexities, theres one simple solution that'll answer all our problems!' Thats not a position you can negotiate with.

You should have seen my first response :p

re: #218 The Shadow Do

- for condescension. You don't hope them out of power, you take a balanced approach, considering whats going on on the ground.

225 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:41:35pm

re: #188 windsagio

Well to some degree. While I agree that Israel certainly doesn't want to invade or conquer anyone, they have this history of preemptively attacking other countries to defend themselves. That tends to rub people the wrong way.

/and yes I understand why they do it, and it was wise to do. But it has an effect on how people in the other countries see them.

Only the people in the other countries who believe the bull shit that their tyrants tell them would believe that Israel ever preemptively attacked anyone.

I am surprised that you think that ever happened.

226 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:42:08pm

re: #220 brookly red

/does voting them out count as justice?


Some think it needs a Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

227 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:43:47pm

re: #225 Buck

Operation Orchard

C'mon people!

228 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:44:03pm

re: #221 windsagio

I thought the Soviets had some role but I don't know for sure.

229 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:44:20pm

re: #224 windsagio

sure. The problem is that the statement I was responding to says 'don't bother with any complexities, theres one simple solution that'll answer all our problems!' Thats not a position you can negotiate with.

You should have seen my first response :p

re: #218 The Shadow Do

- for condescension. You don't hope them out of power, you take a balanced approach, considering whats going on on the ground.

Well I am kinda hawkish when it comes to Iran's leadership there really is no room for negotiation with them, having said that the rest gets complicated.

230 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:44:43pm

Greetings all..what's the topic of disagreement tonight?

231 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:45:20pm

re: #227 windsagio

Operation Orchard

C'mon people!

Israel took out something that would have been used to harm them.

Charles had a few threads on it.

232 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:45:21pm

re: #228 MandyManners

I thought the Soviets had some role but I don't know for sure.

well they were the boggie man, and rightfully so.

233 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:45:30pm

re: #230 PT Barnum

There's blood in the water.

234 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:45:35pm

re: #230 PT Barnum

Greetings all..what's the topic of disagreement tonight?

I'm not sure, but you can cut this atmosphere with a knife.

235 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:46:06pm

re: #234 Silvergirl

smog again, huh?

236 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:46:12pm

re: #226 Decatur Deb

Some think it needs a Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

I am old fashion... a grand jury is just fine.

237 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:46:25pm

re: #232 brookly red

well they were the boggie man, and rightfully so.

Don't forget Nasser. And, Hafez al Assad.

238 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:46:38pm

re: #219 Silvergirl

At least you cleaned up so the ants won't invade. I just got back from the hardware store with ammo against the ants. Surrounded the house and put traps in all their fave places inside too. This is the time of year they think I'm having a house party just for them.

Invite Andrew Zimmern over from the Travel Channel. he'll eat them

[Link: www.travelchannel.com...]

239 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:46:47pm

re: #230 PT Barnum

Greetings all..what's the topic of disagreement tonight?

Well, there's a flame war being waged in the US Weather Stations thread.

240 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:46:55pm

re: #231 MandyManners

sure, but it was 'preemptive'. That's what the word means!

also:

Operation Opera

Again, I'm not saying it wasn't the wise thing to do, but claiming that Israel never did preemptive strikes is flat out wrong.

241 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:46:58pm

re: #233 Decatur Deb

There's blood in the water.

Has anyone here seen The Cove? Now that I have, when I hear the term blood in the water, it conjures up an unwelcome visual.

242 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:47:06pm

re: #230 PT Barnum

Greetings all..what's the topic of disagreement tonight?

/there he is get him!

no were are just bickering again...

243 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:47:55pm

re: #224 windsagio


- for condescension. You don't hope them out of power, you take a balanced approach, considering whats going on on the ground.


On the ground: which at present means shooting of protesters and exemplary execution of enemies of the government.

The "balanced" approach to this is.....

244 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:47:56pm

re: #236 brookly red

I am old fashion... a grand jury is just fine.

The fact that the T&RC worked in South Africa was a real morale booster--never thought that would go without slaughter.

245 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:48:18pm

re: #238 sattv4u2

Invite Andrew Zimmern over from the Travel Channel. he'll eat them

[Link: www.travelchannel.com...]

Those are those mega ants you could dip in chocolate and crunch, right? I have those little stinky bastards.

246 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:48:27pm

re: #240 windsagio

sure, but it was 'preemptive'. That's what the word means!

also:

Operation Opera

Again, I'm not saying it wasn't the wise thing to do, but claiming that Israel never did preemptive strikes is flat out wrong.

Where did I claim that Israel did not?

247 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:48:36pm

re: #242 brookly red

I saw ludvig in the weather thread and figured there would be fireworks, which is why I came here...

we need a humor thread to seek refuge in...:)

248 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:48:49pm

re: #241 Silvergirl

Will check it out.

249 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:49:41pm

re: #245 Silvergirl

Well you could try dipping them in dark chocolate and making ant clusters...

250 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:49:55pm

re: #246 MandyManners

*sigh*

re: #225 Buck

Only the people in the other countries who believe the bull shit that their tyrants tell them would believe that Israel ever preemptively attacked anyone.

I am surprised that you think that ever happened.

Responding to this craziness. These conversation threads are confusing sometimes >>

Anyways what Buck said was patently untrue, and very very propagandistic.

251 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:49:56pm

re: #227 windsagio

Operation Orchard

C'mon people!

Syria is still in a state of war with Israel, and continues to arm and support Hezbollah.

252 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:50:00pm

re: #244 Decatur Deb

The fact that the T&RC worked in South Africa was a real morale booster--never thought that would go without slaughter.

so far so good... these things unfortunately take a generation to manifest sometimes...

253 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:50:43pm

re: #230 PT Barnum

Greetings all..what's the topic of disagreement tonight?

You want to see a disagreement thread? Go to the AGW thread. It's got rabid insult barrages thrown around. Seems like whenever LudwigVanQuixote shows up to a thread, it disintegrates into name calling and fighting.

254 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:51:13pm

re: #248 Decatur Deb

Will check it out.

The Cove

255 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:51:20pm

Supper...

256 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:51:27pm

re: #245 Silvergirl

Those are those mega ants you could dip in chocolate and crunch, right? I have those little stinky bastards.

Have you ever seen his show ??? HE'LL EAT THEM! SANS chocolate

257 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:51:27pm

re: #251 Buck

Syria is still in a state of war with Israel, and continues to arm and support Hezbollah.

Has Jordan signed a treaty?

258 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:51:35pm
259 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:51:48pm

re: #253 NJDhockeyfan

You want to see a disagreement thread? Go to the AGW thread. It's got rabid insult barrages thrown around. Seems like whenever LudwigVanQuixote shows up to a thread, it disintegrates into name calling and fighting.

Yes indeed. Thanks for the warning.

260 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:52:01pm

re: #246 MandyManners

Where did I claim that Israel did not?

I claim that Israel has not.

Both Syria and Iraq are still in a state of war with Israel.

261 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:52:10pm

re: #247 PT Barnum

I saw ludvig in the weather thread and figured there would be fireworks, which is why I came here...

we need a humor thread to seek refuge in...:)

humor is in the eye of the beholder... come on down.

262 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:52:23pm

re: #255 Walter L. Newton

Supper...

radio


(oh ,, I thought we were just typing a random word! )

263 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:52:51pm

re: #258 Killgore Trout

I just joined...got Torchlight and will probably buy other games later.

264 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:53:03pm

re: #254 Silvergirl

Thanks--expected a slasher flick. Noted they don't recommend for kids.

265 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:53:21pm

re: #261 brookly red

We went to the movies this afternoon..and I've already eaten enough popcorn...

266 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:53:36pm

re: #260 Buck

I claim that Israel has not.

Both Syria and Iraq are still in a state of war with Israel.

I think, (not sure) but Iraq and Iran are still technically at war too, no?

267 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:53:38pm

re: #257 MandyManners

Has Jordan signed a treaty?

Yes the second Arab country, after Egypt, to normalize relations with Israel.

268 Semper Fi  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:54:08pm

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Politically incorrect moment of the day. A Chinese friend of mine just posted this on her facebook...

Shovering Snow - the very first time in my entire life!! Gosh!! Not easy!! Even just for 5 minutes, my arms are hurting!! I'd better stay inside, open the front door, and just be the cheer leader and bring up a zip of hot coffee!!! Go!! Snow Shoverer!! You rock!!

Okay... here's my question. Should I correct her? Or should I give her Anglo friends time to have fun with this?


Hello, Lizards
Such a nice evening and with an opportunity to follow some posts, it's something I really enjoy. LGF and just a little wine. A real winner.

FBV,
My most special person is asian and I know she would want to know immediately to make the appropriate corrections. I also know how I would present it to her:

"You're so funny. You don't even use "L's" when you write."

I know how she would feel about this.

Anyway, another point of view.

269 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:54:32pm

re: #266 brookly red

I think, (not sure) but Iraq and Iran are still technically at war too, no?

Sure, and Iran is doing a lot of damage in Iraq.

270 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:54:41pm

re: #266 brookly red

I think, (not sure) but Iraq and Iran are still technically at war too, no?

So's North Korea.

271 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:55:05pm

re: #256 sattv4u2

Have you ever seen his show ??? HE'LL EAT THEM! SANS chocolate

No, I haven't--I don't have tv. I imagine he's getting some big bucks for eating ants. I've inadvertently eaten them for free in a bowl of cereal. Ick! The taste is horrendous! After that they suffer their fate in the garbage disposal for invading the Krispies.

272 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:55:09pm

re: #260 Buck

I claim that Israel has not.

Both Syria and Iraq are still in a state of war with Israel.

Well, if Jordan signed a treay Israel would have to or else it would not be in effect.

I knew that about Iraq and Syria, though.

273 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:55:22pm

re: #270 Decatur Deb

So's North Korea.

/NK at war with Iran? cool!

274 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:55:50pm

re: #267 Buck

Yes the second Arab country, after Egypt, to normalize relations with Israel.

Never mind my No. 272.

275 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:56:07pm

re: #269 Buck

Sure, and Iran is doing a lot of damage in Iraq.

Yep.

276 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:56:11pm

re: #264 Decatur Deb

Thanks--expected a slasher flick. Noted they don't recommend for kids.

Right. If you ever watched the old Flipper series, this is an eye-opener.

277 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:56:17pm

re: #271 Silvergirl

It's actually pretty enjoyable. I have always enjoyed regional cuisine, this is just a little more outside my region than I'm willing to go...I thought brains and eggs was weird!

278 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:56:27pm

Buck: Quit spinning.

Its not about whether they're right to do the attacks, its whether they do them. and they do.

Hell, I didn't wanna bring it up, but

Operation Focus

Israel has a history of doing this. You can argue (convincingly) that they're right to do it, but claiming they don't do it at all is just silly.

279 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:57:03pm

re: #269 Buck

Sure, and Iran is doing a lot of damage in Iraq.

and the fact that we are training Iraq's army could not be comforting to Iran...

280 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:57:36pm

re: #273 brookly red

/NK at war with Iran? cool!

Possibly--the UN had the baton for that concert (in theory).

281 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:57:48pm

re: #278 windsagio

That was a bit different than taking out the nuke stuff in Iraq and Syria.

282 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:58:26pm

re: #273 brookly red

/NK at war with Iran? cool!

Which side to back?

283 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:58:35pm

re: #276 Silvergirl

Porpoises Gone Bad?

284 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:58:47pm

re: #280 Decatur Deb

Possibly--the UN had the baton for that concert (in theory).

Hmmmm, I see outsourcing potential here :)

285 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:59:07pm

re: #263 PT Barnum
I don't have much of a gaming budget but I've been playing Team Fortress 2 for a couple years now. Steam is a little buggy but overall stable and they do keep improving it.

286 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:59:16pm

re: #283 Decatur Deb

Porpoises Gone Bad?

Dolphin Does Dallas.

287 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:59:25pm

re: #283 Decatur Deb

Just what we need imorral porpoises...

288 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:59:26pm

re: #283 Decatur Deb

Porpoises Gone Bad?

/tuna salad on whole wheat please...

289 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:59:33pm

re: #263 PT Barnum

PT: Buy this. Its on Steam, and it'll blow your freaking mind!

*note its not like your normal game tho :P

290 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 5:59:51pm

re: #283 Decatur Deb

Porpoises Gone Bad?

Japanese dolphin hunters gone bad.

291 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:00:12pm

re: #281 MandyManners

sure. But it was a preemptive strike with no state of war. I'm just driving home my point to Buck, that Israel takes part in preemptive strikes.

292 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:00:31pm

re: #287 PT Barnum

Just what we need imorral porpoises...

My old boat is named "The Practical Porpoise".

293 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:00:54pm

re: #282 MandyManners

Which side to back?

NK for sure... they invade Iran & while their army is there we give em some MTV...

294 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:01:00pm

This is a pretty good article. It makes good points.

295 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:01:01pm

I have no idea why preemptive war is scorned.

296 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:01:06pm

re: #289 windsagio

I'll have to check that out...how much are they asking for it?

297 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:01:16pm

re: #290 Silvergirl

Japanese dolphin hunters gone bad.

298 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:01:16pm

re: #290 Silvergirl

We need an "ick" ding.

299 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:01:52pm

re: #296 PT Barnum

$20. Its a tough game to get into (makes me super motionsick), but its a hell of a trip!

300 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:02:17pm

re: #294 LudwigVanQuixote

This is a pretty good article. It makes good points.

Think I'll skee-daddle. You're scary. Bye.

301 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:02:19pm

re: #295 The Shadow Do

I have no idea why preemptive war is scorned.

/it causes autism...

302 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:02:23pm

re: #291 windsagio

sure. But it was a preemptive strike with no state of war. I'm just driving home my point to Buck, that Israel takes part in preemptive strikes.

The armies of Egypt, Jordan and Syria were at war.

303 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:02:33pm

re: #295 The Shadow Do

well, first of all be sure that theres' a real threat :p Secondly, try to put yourself in the shoes of the target. It would tend to piss you off most likely :p

304 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:02:38pm

That's about my price range for games...I'll check it out sometime.

305 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:02:39pm

re: #278 windsagio

Buck: Quit spinning.

Its not about whether they're right to do the attacks, its whether they do them. and they do.

Hell, I didn't wanna bring it up, but

Operation Focus

Israel has a history of doing this. You can argue (convincingly) that they're right to do it, but claiming they don't do it at all is just silly.

This one is just plain stupid. It certainly is not a pre-emptive attack. None of your examples are.

[Link: www.sixdaywar.co.uk...]

306 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:02:46pm

re: #295 The Shadow Do

I have no idea why preemptive war is scorned.

Not by me.

307 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:03:24pm

Deep Ahi.

308 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:03:43pm

re: #293 brookly red

NK for sure... they invade Iran & while their army is there we give em some MTV...

MTV and the like should be a primary weapon in this kind of war.

309 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:03:57pm

this goes back to my point about 50 posts ago. Its impossible to rationally discuss anything that involves Israel in any way on this blog.

/I give up.

310 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:04:16pm

The only unprovoked attacks that I can remember were 1948 and Yom Kippur,,,

311 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:04:35pm

re: #306 MandyManners

If we had preemptively attacked the Soviet Union during the Cold War, we would all be radioactive dust right now.

Preemptively attacking people weaker than yourself is considered bullying and I fucking hate bullies.

312 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:05:01pm

re: #303 windsagio

well, first of all be sure that theres' a real threat :p Secondly, try to put yourself in the shoes of the target. It would tend to piss you off most likely :p

1. It would not be preemptive by definition without the threat (easily measurable)
2. Do not attack on the assumption that it will piss off one's adversary?

313 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:05:14pm

re: #308 Decatur Deb

MTV and the like should be a primary weapon in this kind of war.

first strike to be followed up with carpet Big Macing...

314 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:05:27pm

re: #309 windsagio

this goes back to my point about 50 posts ago. Its impossible to rationally discuss anything that involves Israel in any way on this blog.

/I give up.

Bullshit.

315 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:06:04pm

re: #311 PT Barnum

If we had preemptively attacked the Soviet Union during the Cold War, we would all be radioactive dust right now.

Preemptively attacking people weaker than yourself is considered bullying and I fucking hate bullies.

I was speaking in this context only.

316 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:06:16pm

re: #309 windsagio

this goes back to my point about 50 posts ago. Its impossible to rationally discuss anything that involves Israel in any way on this blog.

/I give up.

Ridiculous.

317 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:06:22pm

re: #313 brookly red

first strike to be followed up with carpet Big Macing...

And mop them up with Guinness.

318 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:07:22pm

re: #314 MandyManners

Rationally discussing anything requires the kind of emotional distance that some can't quite manage. Nothing wrong with that, but they should be honest about it.

319 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:07:33pm

re: #317 Decatur Deb

And mop them up with Guinness.

victory is at hand!

320 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:07:37pm

re: #311 PT Barnum

If we had preemptively attacked the Soviet Union during the Cold War, we would all be radioactive dust right now.

Preemptively attacking people weaker than yourself is considered bullying and I fucking hate bullies.

1. Not true
2. True

321 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:07:38pm

re: #312 The Shadow Do

No, seriously, I"m done. I had a whole response written out but deleted it :P

322 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:07:56pm

re: #318 PT Barnum

Rationally discussing anything requires the kind of emotional distance that some can't quite manage. Nothing wrong with that, but they should be honest about it.

What's irrational about pointing out the truth?

323 jaunte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:08:08pm

There's nothing inherently wrong in preemption. It depends on what's being stopped.

324 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:09:19pm

Can't we all just get a bong?

325 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:09:32pm

re: #321 windsagio

No, seriously, I"m done. I had a whole response written out but deleted it :P

Then I will content myself with scratching my head...

326 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:09:33pm

re: #321 windsagio

No, seriously, I"m done. I had a whole response written out but deleted it :P

thanks for that

327 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:09:41pm

re: #315 MandyManners

Fair enough Mandy, but the principle still stands. If you pre-emptively attack someone who is tactically your equal you're going to end up just doing each other a ton of harm.

If you preemptively attack someone who is weaker but who has bigger friends, you're going to end up doing yourself a lot of harm.

If you preemptively attack someone who is weaker and doesn't have any bigger friends, you run the risk of losing your own friends or having to take them over and run their country as well as your own...

all in all not a winning proposition.

328 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:09:44pm

re: #266 brookly red

I think, (not sure) but Iraq and Iran are still technically at war too, no?

I dunno. What happens when the regime of one of the belligerent parties is, shall we say, 'stretched' too thin?

329 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:09:50pm

re: #300 Silvergirl

Think I'll skee-daddle. You're scary. Bye.

Wha? When have I ever said anything mean to you?

330 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:10:06pm

re: #325 The Shadow Do

Then I will content myself with scratching my head...

pre-emptive victim

331 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:10:10pm

re: #324 Racer X

Can't we all just get a bong?

Yes.

332 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:10:46pm

re: #327 PT Barnum

Fair enough Mandy, but the principle still stands. If you pre-emptively attack someone who is tactically your equal you're going to end up just doing each other a ton of harm.

If you preemptively attack someone who is weaker but who has bigger friends, you're going to end up doing yourself a lot of harm.

If you preemptively attack someone who is weaker and doesn't have any bigger friends, you run the risk of losing your own friends or having to take them over and run their country as well as your own...

all in all not a winning proposition.

So, which was the case in 1967?

333 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:10:49pm

re: #320 The Shadow Do

You really think we could have survived a retaliatory strike?

334 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:11:17pm

Ahhhh, the smell of war is in the air... can spring be far behind?

335 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:11:24pm

re: #304 PT Barnum

I just got seriously into Steam myself:

Thing's I've bought:

HL:Source games are still fun

Eufloria is freakin' brilliant, and well worth the money. Strange ambient RTS. Very calming :)

If you have a bit of money, the "THQ pack" is great too, its 99.99, but you get 400 dollars worth of retail games. Something to be said for that.

Don't get Osmos, imo. Its pretty and cool, but too damn hard.

... Steam is great :)

336 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:11:31pm

re: #253 NJDhockeyfan

You want to see a disagreement thread? Go to the AGW thread. It's got rabid insult barrages thrown around. Seems like whenever LudwigVanQuixote shows up to a thread, it disintegrates into name calling and fighting.

Right thanks buddy. I came here to get away from that crap. Moreover, you never seem to comment on who started the shit or how long it took me to get fed up with it. But that's fine. Blame me.

337 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:11:31pm

re: #319 brookly red

victory is at hand!

I'm actually pretty serious about this. We we attacked a set of cultural precepts with HEAT rounds. Doesn't work.

338 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:11:45pm

re: #311 PT Barnum

If we had preemptively attacked the Soviet Union during the Cold War, we would all be radioactive dust right now.

Preemptively attacking people weaker than yourself is considered bullying and I fucking hate bullies.

That is silly. The operative word is preemptive. Look it up.

339 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:11:47pm

re: #334 brookly red

Ahhh, the smell of war is in the air... can spring be far behind?

the campaign season!

340 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:12:23pm

re: #327 PT Barnum

Fair enough Mandy, but the principle still stands. If you pre-emptively attack someone who is tactically your equal you're going to end up just doing each other a ton of harm.

If you preemptively attack someone who is weaker but who has bigger friends, you're going to end up doing yourself a lot of harm.

If you preemptively attack someone who is weaker and doesn't have any bigger friends, you run the risk of losing your own friends or having to take them over and run their country as well as your own...

all in all not a winning proposition.

Perhaps they are equal, but their first attack does not weaken you... but your return weakens them

341 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:12:26pm

re: #332 MandyManners

I'm not entirely sure, since I haven't studied that particular period of history very much. Let me do some reading and let me get back to you on that...

Lest you accuse me of a Sarah Palin answer, let me point out that I'm not afraid to admit I'm ignorant on some topics.

342 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:12:36pm

re: #326 albusteve

lol steve, always the loveable ass :p

343 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:12:49pm

re: #337 Decatur Deb

I'm actually pretty serious about this. We we attacked a set of cultural precepts with HEAT rounds. Doesn't work.

takes time...

344 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:13:07pm

re: #334 brookly red

Ahhh, the smell of war is in the air... can spring be far behind?

Didja' see No. 77?

345 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:13:19pm

re: #336 LudwigVanQuixote

deep breath ludwig! We (at least some of us) love ya man!

346 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:13:27pm

Left / Right
Warm / Cold
Coke / Pepsi

Troll!
Asshole!
GAZE!

347 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:13:40pm

re: #342 windsagio

lol steve, always the loveable ass :p

name calling already?...I just got here

348 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:13:42pm

Uh. Oh. No kimchi for us!

349 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:13:53pm

re: #345 windsagio

deep breath ludwig! We (at least some of us) love ya man!

I know. And thanks, I appreciate it too.

350 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:13:55pm

re: #295 The Shadow Do

I have no idea why preemptive war is scorned.

It makes people feel good.

Never mind that not pre-emptively striking can be the cause of far worse horrors.

351 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:14:11pm

re: #339 albusteve

the campaign season!

Oh, my bad... all that carnage smelled like war to me.

352 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:14:18pm

re: #346 Racer X

Left / Right
Warm / Cold
Coke / Pepsi

Troll!
Asshole!
GAZE!

You got something against, R.C. Cola, dude?

353 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:14:59pm

Gotta' go beat The Kid to make him take a bath.

354 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:15:00pm

re: #347 albusteve

Soooo sensitive!!

I just found your tendency to always say you're glad if I'm leaving or not posting a tad annoying, so you get to take some blowback ;)

355 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:15:20pm

re: #327 PT Barnum

Fair enough Mandy, but the principle still stands. If you pre-emptively attack someone who is tactically your equal you're going to end up just doing each other a ton of harm.

If you preemptively attack someone who is weaker but who has bigger friends, you're going to end up doing yourself a lot of harm.

If you preemptively attack someone who is weaker and doesn't have any bigger friends, you run the risk of losing your own friends or having to take them over and run their country as well as your own...

all in all not a winning proposition.

The concept of preemptive war does not begin nor end with the recent experience in Iraq.

If clearly threatened, you better hope like hell that you get the chance to land the first shot. Weak, strong or in between has nothing to do with it. Unless conflict is only justifiable after having had your ass first beaten of course.

356 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:15:20pm

re: #343 brookly red

takes time...

Takes sex, drugs, booze, and R&R, plus the spread of highly attractive technologies.

357 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:15:32pm

re: #331 Varek Raith

Yes.

Wow!

We've come a long way since buying it out of the back of some guys van behind Lucky's.

358 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:15:46pm

re: #344 MandyManners

Didja' see No. 77?

yes but that is posturing... if the pooch gets screwed no one will see it coming.

359 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:15:47pm

re: #338 Naso Tang

But the likelihood of any first strike being decisive is fairly low, I would argue, because there is always the chance the enemy has forces or weapons you don't know about.

360 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:15:51pm

re: #330 albusteve

pre-emptive victim

LOL

361 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:16:44pm

re: #356 Decatur Deb

Takes sex, drugs, booze, and R&R, plus the spread of highly attractive technologies.

we can do that...

362 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:17:03pm

re: #354 windsagio

Sooo sensitive!!

I just found your tendency to always say you're glad if I'm leaving or not posting a tad annoying, so you get to take some blowback ;)

calling me an ass then calling me sensitive is rich....wtf is with you?....you see things in reverse?

363 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:17:26pm

re: #356 Decatur Deb

Takes sex, drugs, booze, and R&R, plus the spread of highly attractive technologies.

A young Iranian guy was interviewed on NPR. He said all the people of his generation wanted to do was to drive up into the mountains with a beautiful woman and drink some booze. Revolution

364 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:17:58pm

re: #359 PT Barnum

But the likelihood of any first strike being decisive is fairly low, I would argue, because there is always the chance the enemy has forces or weapons you don't know about.

the Soviet yes... Iran not so much.

365 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:18:08pm

re: #333 PT Barnum

You really think we could have survived a retaliatory strike?

USSR turned out to be more blow than go up until late in the game. Yes, an ealry preemption would have been successful. And no, I would never advocate same.

366 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:18:26pm

re: #362 albusteve

Ok ok, I'm sorry for letting you pick a fight with me.

367 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:18:58pm

re: #355 The Shadow Do

I will admit I'm suspicious of anyone claiming a need to make a preemptive strike. If you accept that lives being in imminent danger justifies it, aren't you really arguing the same thing Scott Roeder did in his trial, just on a macro level?

368 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:19:48pm

re: #363 prairiefire

A young Iranian guy was interviewed on NPR. He said all the people of his generation wanted to do was to drive up into the mountains with a beautiful woman and drink some booze. Revolution

Then he's no threat to me, NYC or Haifa. Hope he gets the girl.

369 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:20:00pm

re: #362 albusteve

re: #366 windsagio

There's plenty of snow in my yard, you both welcome to come over and have yourselves a good old fashioned snowball fight!
:)

370 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:20:13pm

re: #367 PT Barnum

I will admit I'm suspicious of anyone claiming a need to make a preemptive strike. If you accept that lives being in imminent danger justifies it, aren't you really arguing the same thing Scott Roeder did in his trial, just on a macro level?

Pleased to meet you hope you've guessed may name...

371 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:20:18pm

re: #367 PT Barnum

+ for ballsiness :p

372 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:20:19pm

re: #365 The Shadow Do

My only argument is that unless you have some way of guaranteeing the nation or person you attack doesn't have some kind of retaliatory capabilty, you are taking a very big risk.

373 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:20:34pm

re: #367 PT Barnum

I will admit I'm suspicious of anyone claiming a need to make a preemptive strike. If you accept that lives being in imminent danger justifies it, aren't you really arguing the same thing Scott Roeder did in his trial, just on a macro level?

No. Truth was against Roeder.

374 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:21:06pm

re: #358 brookly red

yes but that is posturing... if the pooch gets screwed no one will see it coming.

Hence the term DOGGIE STYLE!

375 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:21:25pm

re: #372 PT Barnum

My only argument is that unless you have some way of guaranteeing the nation or person you attack doesn't have some kind of retaliatory capabilty, you are taking a very big risk.

That's what the Middle East found out over six days in 1967.

376 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:22:01pm

re: #373 MandyManners

We're not talking truth here, we're talking perceptions. If I percieve a threat and attack preemptively, shouldn't I be required to suffer the consequences if that threat didn't really exist?

377 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:22:32pm

re: #376 PT Barnum

We're not talking truth here, we're talking perceptions. If I percieve a threat and attack preemptively, shouldn't I be required to suffer the consequences if that threat didn't really exist?

Yep.

378 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:22:37pm

re: #367 PT Barnum

I will admit I'm suspicious of anyone claiming a need to make a preemptive strike. If you accept that lives being in imminent danger justifies it, aren't you really arguing the same thing Scott Roeder did in his trial, just on a macro level?

macro level?...whoa...who cares what Roeder argued, he's a maniac, hardly fit for any analogy

379 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:22:44pm

re: #359 PT Barnum

But the likelihood of any first strike being decisive is fairly low, I would argue, because there is always the chance the enemy has forces or weapons you don't know about.

I'm not a military man, but that is a matter of skill and judgment not likelihood odds. The best form of defense is still attack.

380 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:22:49pm

re: #376 PT Barnum

We're not talking truth here, we're talking perceptions. If I percieve a threat and attack preemptively, shouldn't I be required to suffer the consequences if that threat didn't really exist?

I don't think you are talking about Israel anymore.

381 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:22:50pm

re: #376 PT Barnum

Or is there some kind of get out of jail free card if you're the biggest kid on the block?

382 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:23:23pm

re: #376 PT Barnum

We're not talking truth here, we're talking perceptions. If I percieve a threat and attack preemptively, shouldn't I be required to suffer the consequences if that threat didn't really exist?

The threat doesn't exist in the case at hand?

383 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:23:24pm

re: #376 PT Barnum

We're not talking truth here, we're talking perceptions. If I percieve a threat and attack preemptively, shouldn't I be required to suffer the consequences if that threat didn't really exist?

As well as reap the rewards if the threat DID

hence ,,, Roeder ,,,,, consequence of his wrong action ,,Israel, safer becuase of their correct one

384 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:23:29pm

re: #381 PT Barnum

Of course there is, or for having the biggest friends :P

385 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:23:33pm

re: #374 sattv4u2

Hence the term DOGGIE STYLE!

/yes this is Ripper, operation Doggie Style is a go. Repeat go doggie style!

386 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:23:51pm

the doofi are loose

387 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:24:06pm

re: #380 Buck

No I'm not as I think the principle of preemptive attack is something that shouldn't be encouraged or much tolerated.

Paranoia strikes deep...and there are too many nutjobs out there ready to see threats where none exist.

388 webevintage  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:24:27pm

Hope it is ok to bring this up from a pretty dead thread but...

Speaking of computery things I might have a bit of money left over from a nice sale and am thinking of buying a Acer Netbook or a Kindle.

I read, a lot...a whole lot and love the idea of downloading a book instead of waiting for it to come in the mail or remembering to go to the library which is always out of my way.
But my eyes are not what they used to be (and my new flat screen monitor is rough on the eyes as it is) and I'm worried about reading on the netbook.

BUT I also would like to be able to browse online, check email and maybe do a bit of text based work sitting on the sofa in front of the TV instead of sitting at my desk.
I really don't want a laptop and will have about $300ish to spend.

(and no I don't think an IPad is worth waiting for...price/newness/and if there will be a charge for internet data usage)

Thoughts or recommendations?

389 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:25:25pm

No KSM trial in New YorkNYT

390 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:25:26pm

re: #386 albusteve

the doofi are loose

it was a preemptive action.

391 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:25:43pm

re: #336 LudwigVanQuixote

Right thanks buddy. I came here to get away from that crap. Moreover, you never seem to comment on who started the shit or how long it took me to get fed up with it. But that's fine. Blame me.

It happens every time you arrive at at LGF, not just tonight. You can't seem to handle anyone disagreeing with you. Instead of a friendly debate you always begin hurling personal insults. I hope you can gather the strength to behave yourself in this thread.

392 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:26:09pm

re: #388 webevintage

Speaking of computery things I might have a bit of money left over from a nice sale and am thinking of buying a Acer Netbook or a Kindle
Thoughts or recommendations?

hit a nice beach resort somewhere and blow it on wine, women and song. There'll always be another "toy" coming along that you'll want more!

393 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:26:30pm

re: #387 PT Barnum

No I'm not as I think the principle of preemptive attack is something that shouldn't be encouraged or much tolerated.

Paranoia strikes deep...and there are too many nutjobs out there ready to see threats where none exist.

I presume you don't think the nutjobs in Iran mean anything they say, or are you talking of something else?

394 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:26:35pm

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

We get it, you don't like him :P

395 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:27:17pm

re: #393 Naso Tang

*getting pulled back in*

I think that the US is wise to try to head off a preemptive strike by Israel, because one was pretty likely.

396 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:27:54pm

re: #390 brookly red

it was a preemptive action.

the best part is taking a simple notion...then smothering it with tangents and strawmen in some effort to make you look smart

397 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:27:56pm

re: #394 windsagio

We get it, you don't like him :P

Not a question of 'not liking him', A question of civil discourse

There are MANY people on here i don;t agree with. i don;'t end up getting called stupid, and asshole and told to go fuck myself by them

398 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:28:52pm

re: #393 Naso Tang

I happen to think the nutjobs in Iran are somewhat pragmatic, for all their bluster. Their primary purpose is to stay in power. Getting themselves bombed to kingdom come doesn't really fit into that plan.

399 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:28:54pm

10 Weird Beer Facts

“Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza.”
-Dave Barry

“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
-Benjamin Franklin

“He was a wise man who invented beer.” -Plato

400 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:28:56pm

re: #367 PT Barnum

I will admit I'm suspicious of anyone claiming a need to make a preemptive strike. If you accept that lives being in imminent danger justifies it, aren't you really arguing the same thing Scott Roeder did in his trial, just on a macro level?

You can't be serious. Scott Roeder was never personally threatened by any of it.

If you are an Israeli, it is different.

If your are an Iraqi, it is different.

If you are living in the West, it is different.

401 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:28:59pm

re: #397 sattv4u2

I'd suggest if you have a problem with LVQ you complain to Charles about it, rather than forming a mob :p

402 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:29:02pm

re: #397 sattv4u2

Not a question of 'not liking him', A question of civil discourse

There are MANY people on here i don;t agree with. i don;'t end up getting called stupid, and asshole and told to go fuck myself by them

To be fair, there was another in that thread throwing out insults, as well.

403 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:29:06pm

re: #396 albusteve

the best part is taking a simple notion...then smothering it with tangents and strawmen in some effort to make you look smart

I have long since given up on looking smart, it is soooo liberating.

404 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:29:09pm

re: #392 sattv4u2

Speaking of computery things I might have a bit of money left over from a nice sale and am thinking of buying a Acer Netbook or a Kindle
Thoughts or recommendations?

hit a nice beach resort somewhere and blow it on wine, women and song. There'll always be another "toy" coming along that you'll want more!

What he said. There will be a shaking out, and the winner will be half-price in a year. (Wife has a Kindle I.)

405 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:29:42pm

re: #368 Decatur Deb

Then he's no threat to me, NYC or Haifa. Hope he gets the girl.

The Iranian people don't have a beef with America, it's the Mullahs who run the country. I hope the citizens can overthrow them before any missiles start flying.

406 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:29:44pm

re: #376 PT Barnum

We're not talking truth here, we're talking perceptions. If I percieve a threat and attack preemptively, shouldn't I be required to suffer the consequences if that threat didn't really exist?

Must the enemy always get in the first punch?

407 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:29:52pm

re: #399 Racer X

10 Weird Beer Facts

“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
-Benjamin Franklin


I have a tshirt with that on the back.

408 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:30:00pm

re: #395 windsagio

*getting pulled back in*

I think that the US is wise to try to head off a preemptive strike by Israel, because one was pretty likely.

Don't get me wrong, it would be bad news, the stock market would go to hell and the price of gas would skyrocket and we would be back in economic shit; but then again Israel is not the only party that could start something nasty.

My argument is with absolutism about things like preemptive is bad. Losing is bad.

409 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:30:24pm

re: #398 PT Barnum

I happen to think the nutjobs in Iran are somewhat pragmatic, for all their bluster. Their primary purpose is to stay in power. Getting themselves bombed to kingdom come doesn't really fit into that plan.

that's your opinion....mine is different...ever hear the expression, too smart by half?

410 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:30:52pm

The only difference with Ludwig is that he's not an insider. Plenty of people on here get a free pass for throwing out loathesome insults whenever they want, because they're oldtimers or because people agree with them.

The difference is that Ludwig is on the other side, so people don't like him.

411 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:30:56pm

re: #388 webevintage

Stay away from Acer...poor reliability. ASUS, Toshiba and Dell have the top rankings. Toshiba and Asus both have some pretty nice netbooks in that price range.

412 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:31:09pm

How to Reform Our Financial System

By Paul Volker

Worth looking at.
/he said, ending a sentence in a preposition

413 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:31:19pm

re: #403 brookly red

I have long since given up on looking smart, it is sooo liberating.

RUBE POWER!

414 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:31:26pm

re: #408 Naso Tang


My argument is with absolutism about things like preemptive is bad. Losing is bad.

Absolutism is bad. Thats 10000% freakin' correct! That applies for any political or world situatoin.

415 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:31:47pm

re: #381 PT Barnum

Or is there some kind of get out of jail free card if you're the biggest kid on the block?

Big, BAAAAD America! Big, BAAAD Israel!

/brought to you by poor, misunderstood, Iranian Mullahs...

416 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:31:49pm

re: #398 PT Barnum

I happen to think the nutjobs in Iran are somewhat pragmatic, for all their bluster. Their primary purpose is to stay in power. Getting themselves bombed to kingdom come doesn't really fit into that plan.

The pragmatists are currently being jailed and hung. I believe the little nutjob means what he says, when he starts every speech with a hope for the second coming, in his lifetime.

417 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:32:00pm

re: #410 windsagio

The only difference with Ludwig is that he's not an insider. Plenty of people on here get a free pass for throwing out loathesome insults whenever they want, because they're oldtimers or because people agree with them.

The difference is that Ludwig is on the other side, so people don't like him.

No one gets a free pass here.

No one.

418 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:32:02pm

re: #400 The Shadow Do

I'm not particularly, but it's fun playing Devil's Advocate.

419 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:32:27pm

re: #401 windsagio

I'd suggest if you have a problem with LVQ you complain to Charles about it, rather than forming a mob :p

I stated an observation. I fail to see how that is 'forming a mob"

420 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:32:30pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

How to Reform Our Financial System

By Paul Volker

Worth looking at.
/he said, ending a sentence in a preposition

That is something up with which I will not put!

421 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:32:34pm

re: #417 Racer X

Ok, yer a nice guy, but thats a freakin' lie :P

422 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:33:08pm

re: #386 albusteve

the doofi are loose

/Cry havoc and let slip the doffi of war!

423 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:33:15pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Hi KT!

You once mentioned it is cheaper to buy birdseed than to buy wildflower seeds for a garden. Remember? Which type of birdseed?

424 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:33:17pm

re: #388 webevintage

I've never seen a screen that was less taxing on the eyes than reading paper in a well lit place. Insha'Allah, your vision is still good enough for reading standard size print. Also consider that nothing says "I'm better than you. Fear my enormous brain, puny humans," like still having a hardcover copy of every book you read on bookshelves all around you. A good bookshelf on a wall looks better to me than most art on a wall. Amazon's used hardcover prices appear to be staying competitive with that audio or kindle download price, and you can resell bad books.

425 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:33:19pm

re: #401 windsagio

I'd suggest if you have a problem with LVQ you complain to Charles about it, rather than forming a mob :p

Who are you...the LGF police?

426 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:33:30pm

re: #388 webevintage

Netbook is probably a bad idea if your sight is an issue. But if you can handle that smaller screen they are nice.

The lack of a fan is nice, and the lower weight is really nice.

I like the HP's. I have bought a couple for family members.

I use the Dell XPS M1330... 13", so still small....but I have the need for speed.

427 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:34:02pm

re: #410 windsagio

The only difference with Ludwig is that he's not an insider. Plenty of people on here get a free pass for throwing out loathesome insults whenever they want, because they're oldtimers or because people agree with them.

The difference is that Ludwig is on the other side, so people don't like him.

excuse me !?!? ludwig is LGF's 'go to guy" re: AGW. How much more 'inside" need he be !?!?!

428 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:34:18pm

re: #421 windsagio

Ok, yer a nice guy, but thats a freakin' lie :P

Ha!

pwned!

429 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:34:41pm

re: #425 NJDhockeyfan

lol the reverse really. If you think someone doesn't belong, then complain to the moderator. Don't turn a whole other thread into 'complaining about x'.


I'm not the one going after somebody for saying 'hi'.

430 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:35:15pm

re: #417 Racer X

No one gets a free pass here.

No one.

I like Ludwig, but not when he loses it, and he does so more than most Oldtimers. Only Mandy knows how to practice the language.

431 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:35:20pm

GACK! I just realized that I'm making it worse!

You really can't win some days.

432 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:35:52pm

re: #423 Racer X

Hi KT!

You once mentioned it is cheaper to buy birdseed than to buy wildflower seeds for a garden. Remember? Which type of birdseed?

don't you just toss yer seeds out the window?

433 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:36:03pm

re: #431 windsagio

GACK! I just realized that I'm making it worse!

You really can't win some days.

;) See why I tend to remain in the shadows?
:)

434 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:36:06pm

re: #410 windsagio

The only difference with Ludwig is that he's not an insider. Plenty of people on here get a free pass for throwing out loathesome insults whenever they want, because they're oldtimers or because people agree with them.

The difference is that Ludwig is on the other side, so people don't like him.

Horsehockey! The difference is the 'old timers' are able to agree to disagree or have civil debates. Ludwig is incapable of that.

435 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:36:53pm

re: #398 PT Barnum

I happen to think the nutjobs in Iran are somewhat pragmatic, for all their bluster. Their primary purpose is to stay in power. Getting themselves bombed to kingdom come doesn't really fit into that plan.

I think that is right. Are you prepared to live in a world where they call the shots as to allies, energy and by extension global economy in order to maintain the 'peace'?

I know many would.

436 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:36:56pm

re: #433 Varek Raith

its hard man! Its so hard!

Quick, gimme a subject!

You mentioned doing Star Wars vs Star Trek last night, right?

437 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:37:09pm

re: #424 keloyd

I've never seen a screen that was less taxing on the eyes than reading paper in a well lit place. Insha'Allah, your vision is still good enough for reading standard size print. Also consider that nothing says "I'm better than you. Fear my enormous brain, puny humans," like still having a hardcover copy of every book you read on bookshelves all around you. A good bookshelf on a wall looks better to me than most art on a wall. Amazon's used hardcover prices appear to be staying competitive with that audio or kindle download price, and you can resell bad books.

If ebooks do revolutionize the information world, there will be a powerful niche economy for old and handcrafted books. Think Mont Blanc pens.

438 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:37:09pm

re: #423 Racer X

Hi KT!

You once mentioned it is cheaper to buy birdseed than to buy wildflower seeds for a garden. Remember? Which type of birdseed?

It wasn't bird seed, it was flax seed from the bulk food section at the grocery store. just make sure to get raw seeds and not toasted. Also at the garned center you can but something called Crimson Clover which is very vince. People use it as a cover crop and seeds will cost you about a buck per pound. Lovely red flowers, very long lasting and drought tolerant so they dont require watering after established.

439 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:37:11pm

re: #431 windsagio

GACK! I just realized that I'm making it worse!

You really can't win some days.

it's not about winning....until you understand that you'll get nowhere with these silly partisan comments....that's the root of your frustration

440 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:37:32pm

re: #436 windsagio

its hard man! Its so hard!

Quick, gimme a subject!

You mentioned doing Star Wars vs Star Trek last night, right?

Heh, go for it!

441 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:37:54pm

re: #438 Killgore Trout

garned center = garden center

442 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:38:51pm

re: #253 NJDhockeyfan

You want to see a disagreement thread? Go to the AGW thread. It's got rabid insult barrages thrown around. Seems like whenever LudwigVanQuixote shows up to a thread, it disintegrates into name calling and fighting.

Oddly enough, even when Ludwig isn't here, the AGW threads get very unpleasant.

443 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:38:54pm

re: #439 albusteve

Hmm; I never said it was about winning. The thing that gets me going on here is actually a mode of thought. Unfortunately thats also the hardest thing to fight in the world.

Anyways, I'm no different than anyone else who argues with me, it takes 2 to tango ;)

/well except in my positions of course, those are very different :)

444 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:39:26pm

re: #440 Varek Raith

I gave you my "George Lucas Hates Democracy" rant, right?

445 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:39:30pm

re: #438 Killgore Trout

It wasn't bird seed, it was flax seed from the bulk food section at the grocery store. just make sure to get raw seeds and not toasted. Also at the garned center you can but something called Crimson Clover which is very vince. People use it as a cover crop and seeds will cost you about a buck per pound. Lovely red flowers, very long lasting and drought tolerant so they dont require watering after established.

Excellent - thank you!

446 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:39:52pm

re: #444 windsagio

I gave you my "George Lucas Hates Democracy" rant, right?

No, do tell...

447 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:40:16pm

re: #433 Varek Raith

;) See why I tend to remain in the shadows?
:)

we see you

448 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:40:24pm

re: #270 Decatur Deb

So's North Korea.

With ISRAEL?

/

449 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:40:37pm

re: #443 windsagio

Part of the reason I enjoy this place is because it isn't so much about winning with me as it is exploring every avenue of discussion.

450 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:40:53pm

re: #446 Varek Raith

I'll find the quotes if you want, but at various times he's said that all democratic forms of government are doomed to fail, and that the best form of government would be a benign despotism.

451 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:40:57pm

re: #443 windsagio

Hmm; I never said it was about winning. The thing that gets me going on here is actually a mode of thought. Unfortunately thats also the hardest thing to fight in the world.

Anyways, I'm no different than anyone else who argues with me, it takes 2 to tango ;)

/well except in my positions of course, those are very different :)

"you really can't win some days"....you are becoming marginal

452 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:41:22pm

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

It happens every time you arrive at at LGF, not just tonight. You can't seem to handle anyone disagreeing with you. Instead of a friendly debate you always begin hurling personal insults. I hope you can gather the strength to behave yourself in this thread.

Now do you really think that tone or your previous stuff isn't insulting? What you hate and can not stand is that I don't back down when you say crap. For those who are new here, The Hockey fan hates me because I don't condone torture. Satt hates me because I don't condone anti-science shenanigans of the GOP - or for that matter many of their other shenanigans. He seems to think I am a Dem, yet I criticize them a lot too.

What is sad is that they start with the name calling and mix in but then whine like babies about it when I fight back. It would be so much more, well manly if you didn't have to slink like kids on a school yard.

re: #417 Racer X

No one gets a free pass here.

No one.

And I don't need one. I give as good as I get and I actually never start it.

453 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:41:37pm

re: #449 PT Barnum

thats LGF at its best, for sure.

454 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:42:02pm

re: #434 NJDhockeyfan

Horsehockey! The difference is the 'old timers' are able to agree to disagree or have civil debates. Ludwig is incapable of that.

No I agree to disagree with many and if I am proven wrong I admit it. However, I am not wrong about the science of AGW. It is after all something I study as a professional scientist.

455 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:42:13pm

re: #443 windsagio

Hmm; I never said it was about winning. The thing that gets me going on here is actually a mode of thought. Unfortunately thats also the hardest thing to fight in the world.

Anyways, I'm no different than anyone else who argues with me, it takes 2 to tango ;)

/well except in my positions of course, those are very different :)

I agree, your positions are very different. Where did you learn them?

456 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:42:32pm

re: #441 Killgore Trout

I thought you meant some kind of secret society.

We had 5 male cardinals and 3 wives stripping the bark off of our Redbud tree, looking for bugs. They were starving.
We have been through 3 big bags of mixed sunflower and assorted for songbirds now and they are still really hungry. A red one was looking through the sliding glass door this afternoon like "Yo! More!"

457 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:42:33pm

re: #448 SanFranciscoZionist

With ISRAEL?

/

There's a PC game called Superpower. I've had several weird occasions where NK invaded Israel. My Defense Secretary said, "Lolwhut?!"
:)

458 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:42:33pm

re: #451 albusteve

oh c'mon, Steve. Its a common figure of speech.

Do you think I literally meant "Some days I just can't win any arguments"?

459 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:42:35pm

re: #278 windsagio

Buck: Quit spinning.

Its not about whether they're right to do the attacks, its whether they do them. and they do.

Hell, I didn't wanna bring it up, but

Operation Focus

Israel has a history of doing this. You can argue (convincingly) that they're right to do it, but claiming they don't do it at all is just silly.

I'd argue that they're right to do it. Especially in that case.

(Just dropped in. We're arguing that Israel never shot up anyone's airfield?)

460 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:43:15pm

re: #448 SanFranciscoZionist

With ISRAEL?

/

With S. Korea and (possibly) the entire UN. United Nations still has a garrison, usually Ghurkas, in Yongsan.

461 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:43:17pm
462 webevintage  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:43:23pm

re: #392 sattv4u2

hit a nice beach resort somewhere and blow it on wine, women and song. There'll always be another "toy" coming along that you'll want more!


HA.
That's about my husband's response, he said we need to use the money for a little "get away".

463 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:43:30pm

re: #279 brookly red

and the fact that we are training Iraq's army could not be comforting to Iran...

Never has been.

464 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:43:53pm

re: #452 LudwigVanQuixote

Satt hates me because I don't condone anti-science shenanigans of the GOP - or for that matter many of their other shenanigans

BBBZZZZ ,,, Incorrect ,,, but we do have some parting gifts for you. Johnny!?!?

Yes Biff ,,,we have the home version of Persecution Complex!

465 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:44:33pm

re: #458 windsagio

Some days it just isn't worth gnawing through the leather restraints....or skipping the meds...

466 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:44:48pm

re: #456 prairiefire

I thought you meant some kind of secret society.

We had 5 male cardinals and 3 wives stripping the bark off of our Redbud tree, looking for bugs. They were starving.
We have been through 3 big bags of mixed sunflower and assorted for songbirds now and they are still really hungry. A red one was looking through the sliding glass door this afternoon like "Yo! More!"

I am working through the dilemma of putting out bird seeds (lots of them left over from my spoiled parrots) and the rats/vermin that is attracted when I do.

467 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:44:54pm

re: #456 prairiefire

I thought you meant some kind of secret society.

We had 5 male cardinals and 3 wives stripping the bark off of our Redbud tree, looking for bugs. They were starving.
We have been through 3 big bags of mixed sunflower and assorted for songbirds now and they are still really hungry. A red one was looking through the sliding glass door this afternoon like "Yo! More!"

give em some pizza...

468 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:45:41pm

re: #455 Walter L. Newton

funny story. I was brought up Deeply oldschool Republican (both my parents are proud to have voted for Nixon 3 times). My politics really started to change about ~'94 when the whole Gingrich/contract with America thing happened. (I would've voted for Bush 1 if I could've)

To my mind its been all downhill from there.

I always thought the Dems were pretty useless, but I didn't really start hating on them until they killed the Open Primary in WA.

469 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:45:51pm

re: #449 PT Barnum

Part of the reason I enjoy this place is because it isn't so much about winning with me as it is exploring every avenue of discussion.

Same here. I've learned a tremendous amount since I joined LGF. I don't agree with everyone but I do respect them.

470 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:45:58pm

re: #464 sattv4u2

Satt hates me because I don't condone anti-science shenanigans of the GOP - or for that matter many of their other shenanigans

BBBZZZ ,,, Incorrect ,,, but we do have some parting gifts for you. Johnny!?!?

Yes Biff ,,,we have the home version of Persecution Complex!

OK well fine, so I am wrong about why you are always hostile to me. I really don't care. I don't like you either.

471 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:46:08pm

re: #467 brookly red

be careful when you buy bird seed though..we bought some that had thistle seed in it and ended up with a bumper crop the following summer.

472 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:46:25pm

re: #468 windsagio

Be right back... have to fill the pellet stove.

473 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:46:50pm

re: #450 windsagio

I'll find the quotes if you want, but at various times he's said that all democratic forms of government are doomed to fail, and that the best form of government would be a benign despotism.

Dune or the empire in Star Wars come to mind.

474 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:47:15pm

re: #470 LudwigVanQuixote

OK well fine, so I am wrong about why you are always hostile to me. I really don't care. I don't like you either.

Strike the EITHER, Skippy. Unlike you, I have NEVER said I hated/disliked/can't stand you

Thats a YOU problem ,,, not a ME problem

475 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:47:26pm

Sigh...BBL when this damned flame war has ended.
...sigh...
:/

476 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:47:38pm

re: #473 Naso Tang

well my point is that he thinks its the best form of government...

I double dog dare you to agree with that :P

477 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:47:47pm

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

It happens every time you arrive at at LGF, not just tonight. You can't seem to handle anyone disagreeing with you. Instead of a friendly debate you always begin hurling personal insults. I hope you can gather the strength to behave yourself in this thread.

Bollocks. A few people here were lying in wait for Ludwigs return just so that they could wind him up. Heck, some of them even started a few days ago in his absence. Interestingly enough, these are often the same people who have expressed shock and horror at the very idea of criticising someone when they are not logged in.

But as we keep seeing, the rules team wingnut applies to itself are quite different to those they demand that others live by.

478 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:47:54pm

re: #475 Varek Raith

NO DAMMIT! DEFEND LUCAS!!!!

479 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:47:56pm

re: #473 Naso Tang

Dune or the empire in Star Wars come to mind.

or Rousseau :)

480 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:47:57pm

re: #471 PT Barnum

be careful when you buy bird seed though..we bought some that had thistle seed in it and ended up with a bumper crop the following summer.

I live in Brooklyn... if thistle can live here God bless it.

481 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:48:17pm

re: #291 windsagio

sure. But it was a preemptive strike with no state of war. I'm just driving home my point to Buck, that Israel takes part in preemptive strikes.

Very little choice in that case.

482 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:48:41pm

re: #477 Jimmah

Bollocks. A few people here were lying in wait for Ludwigs return just so that they could wind him up. Heck, some of them even started a few days ago in his absence. Interestingly enough, these are often the same people who have expressed shock and horror at the very idea of criticising someone when they are not logged in.

But as we keep seeing, the rules team wingnut applies to itself are quite different to those they demand that others live by.

Indeedy... I really have been busy, so what love letters did they write for me?

483 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:48:46pm

re: #454 LudwigVanQuixote

No I agree to disagree with many and if I am proven wrong I admit it. However, I am not wrong about the science of AGW. It is after all something I study as a professional scientist.

And that's fine. Do away with the name calling and personal insults and you will gain much more respect.

Why do you get so angry with people who disagree with you?

484 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:48:56pm

re: #295 The Shadow Do

I have no idea why preemptive war is scorned.

I think it depends how preemptive you're talking here.

485 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:49:00pm

re: #481 SanFranciscoZionist

SFZ, I know you're not there yet, but I said I woudn;'t talk about it anymore :P


Let me just say that the argument (on my part) wasn't about whether it was justified :p

486 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:49:21pm

re: #480 brookly red

I live in Brooklyn... if thistle can live here God bless it.

I thought you lived in Brookly!?!?!

487 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:49:34pm

re: #466 The Shadow Do

We have a sonic noise maker on in the garage to keep the mice out, otherwise they find a way in and scurry through the walls. My husband says he doesn't know where they get in at, but how could he know because of all the crap that is the garage covering the walls?

488 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:49:39pm

re: #298 Decatur Deb

We need an "ick" ding.

I've said that a number of times. Upding, downding and "eeeuw!" ding.

489 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:50:18pm

re: #488 SanFranciscoZionist

I've said that a number of times. Upding, downding and "eeeuw!" ding.

How would you propose it count toward karma though...

490 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:50:42pm

the scroll wheel is the best part of my mouse

491 jaunte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:51:03pm

re: #487 prairiefire

Isn't it all really good crap that will be useful one day?

492 Bear  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:51:27pm

I have one of the little 10" ACERs One thing about them is the small size of the resident drive memory. Another is the lack of a built in CD/DVD. My main reason for getting one was for field use in recording the pressures generated by my rifle reloads so it works well for me.
Mention was made about the ACER not being too good quality. Strange about that since some brand name computers could be manufactured by ACER as is my 17" new Gateway. Just a casual look at some other brand name 10" ones look the same as the ACER though looks do not mean anything.

493 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:51:44pm

re: #332 MandyManners

So, which was the case in 1967?

1967 is just proof that 200 airplanes flown by guys living on Turkish coffee and humus can do a hell of a lot in 72 hours.

494 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:51:54pm

re: #491 jaunte

Isn't it all really good crap that will be useful one day?

The day after you finally get rid of it.

495 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:52:31pm

re: #491 jaunte

Maybe 35%.

496 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:52:40pm

re: #476 windsagio

well my point is that he thinks its the best form of government...

I double dog dare you to agree with that :P

Wow, here I think you are talking about somebody with a book on the NYT best seller list. I really should read backwards before posting, but at least I was on the right page.

Actually one doesn't have to go to another galaxy for examples. The UAE or even Saudi Arabia would qualify in most regards.

497 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:53:09pm

re: #492 Bear

There's a neat little utility called Magic Disk that will let you play ISO images like they were CDs, which is nice when you want to run something that requires to be run from a CD.

498 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:53:10pm

re: #482 LudwigVanQuixote

Indeedy... I really have been busy, so what love letters did they write for me?

Check out the comments toward the bottom of this thread:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

499 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:53:22pm

re: #488 SanFranciscoZionist

I've said that a number of times. Upding, downding and "eeeuw!" ding.

That would only encourage drinking.

500 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:53:24pm

re: #483 NJDhockeyfan

And that's fine. Do away with the name calling and personal insults and you will gain much more respect.

Why do you get so angry with people who disagree with you?

Just disagreeing I do not get angry at. Violating basic principles of democracy bothers me and repeating anti-science nonsense bothers me. Starting it out with an insult to me like I am not actually a scientist or any other such stuff makes me a might cranky. When it degenerates into someone calling me a kapo, I get furious. So no I really don't stat with insults. I actually started begging people to look at data like I always do, and they never look. Eventually,, dangerous lies are an issue.

And for the record, billions of lives are at stake with AGW. It is not a subject to lightly agree to disagree on. You get it right or we all suffer. If the various GOP drones here would actually care to look at the science, I am always cordial and willing to present them with all the explanations, facts and data they could want. I have typed about a book here explaining the science of AGW in the past year. I am happy to keep explaining. If they come slinging crap about something that will kill people and collapse our civilization then they get the disdain they deserve.

501 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:53:29pm

re: #483 NJDhockeyfan

And that's fine. Do away with the name calling and personal insults and you will gain much more respect.

Why do you get so angry with people who disagree with you?

we have outgrown name calling... we are discussing the finer points of preemptive strikes now.

(I am having a bit of bother fine tuning the lib setting on this cruise missile... but as soon as I figure it out, well you will see)

502 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:54:13pm

re: #496 Naso Tang

The Saudi state is awful :p

But just to throw it in absolutist terms, do you think the US would be better as a benign dictatorship, or is doomed to become one?

503 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:55:09pm

re: #493 SanFranciscoZionist

1967 is just proof that 200 airplanes flown by guys living on Turkish coffee and humus can do a hell of a lot in 72 hours.

utterly amazing...one of the great stories of air power history....ironically the one time being a small country worked to their favor

504 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:55:13pm

re: #479 LudwigVanQuixote

or Rousseau :)

Good.

505 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:55:13pm

re: #501 brookly red

lol, I think LVQ is the subject of a number of preemptive strikes, now that you mention it ;)

506 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:56:06pm

re: #500 LudwigVanQuixote

So some people don't believe in AGW. So what? That's no reason to raise your blood pressure. Chill out man, everything is going to be alright.

507 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:56:49pm

Miss Virginia won.

508 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:57:03pm

Overnight technician has arrived,,

Time for the long cold dark drive home ,,,

509 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:57:08pm

re: #496 Naso Tang

Wow, here I think you are talking about somebody with a book on the NYT best seller list. I really should read backwards before posting, but at least I was on the right page.

Actually one doesn't have to go to another galaxy for examples. The UAE or even Saudi Arabia would qualify in most regards.

I'd prefer Monaco.

510 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:57:10pm

re: #500 LudwigVanQuixote

I am always cordial.....

As Forest Gump famously said: Sometimes there just aren't enough rocks.

511 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:57:18pm

re: #507 MandyManners

Miss Virginia won.

YES!

512 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:57:32pm

re: #508 sattv4u2

Overnight technician has arrived,,

Time for the long cold dark drive home ,,,

Stay safe.

513 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:57:46pm

re: #291 windsagio

sure. But it was a preemptive strike with no state of war. I'm just driving home my point to Buck, that Israel takes part in preemptive strikes.

And I am saying there was Casus belli. I am not the only one.

Seven proximate causes compelled Israel to take pre-emptive defensive military action on June 6, 1967; five of them constituted direct causi belli.

514 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:57:49pm

re: #460 Decatur Deb

With S. Korea and (possibly) the entire UN. United Nations still has a garrison, usually Ghurkas, in Yongsan.

Well that part I knew about...

;)

515 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:57:55pm

re: #512 MandyManners

Stay safe.

Tanks!

516 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:58:07pm

re: #505 windsagio

lol, I think LVQ is the subject of a number of preemptive strikes, now that you mention it ;)

yes we got you...but you starting to drool on yourself

517 The Shadow Do  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:58:12pm

re: #487 prairiefire

We have a sonic noise maker on in the garage to keep the mice out, otherwise they find a way in and scurry through the walls. My husband says he doesn't know where they get in at, but how could he know because of all the crap that is the garage covering the walls?

All that crap covering the garage walls? You know my wife don't you....

After trapping a couple of rats (I hate rats) and other meeces and such, I will not put out the seeds. Fend for yourselves you feathered friends! You were doin' ok before Shadow laid out the buffet...

(the waste does bother me, plus I really enjoy watching the birds swarm my feeder in the winter). I photo them. Great stuff seeing a bright red cardinal against a white frozen backdrop. I love the little chip, chip sound in the morning that tells me I have one of them at my feeder.

518 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:58:27pm

re: #509 Van Helsing

heh, this conversation took a direction I never expected >>

519 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:58:37pm

re: #511 NJDhockeyfan

YES!

I'd kill to have her butt.

520 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:58:45pm

re: #508 sattv4u2

Overnight technician has arrived,,

Time for the long cold dark drive home ,,,

get some HEADLIGHTS!

521 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:58:47pm

re: #498 Jimmah

Oh charming. As far as Sal was concerned he painted himself into a corner. He wanted to be seen a s smart. That was why he put up that silly logic puzzle in a debate about AGW. He didn't care for the science. He cared about people calling him clever. As to some of the interpretations there of the exchange, well fine, let those people hate me who wrote that. One of them really is on my permanent persona non grata list to the extent that I truly will not interact with him anymore.

522 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:59:01pm
523 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:59:16pm

re: #519 MandyManners

I'd kill to have her butt.

Same here.

524 Bear  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:59:23pm

re: #497 PT Barnum

Thanks for the info. I will check it out. However to load the programs that were on the commercial disks I had to get a separate CD/DVD player to plug into the USB port or at least the sales people said so and I bought one.

525 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:59:36pm

re: #489 PT Barnum

How would you propose it count toward karma though...

I think it should be a separate category of karma.

526 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:59:38pm

re: #519 MandyManners

So would I, but....oh..wait a minute..that's not what you meant was it?

527 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 6:59:49pm

re: #519 MandyManners

I'd kill to have her butt.

Me too.

;oP

529 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:00:10pm

re: #523 Walter L. Newton

Same here.

It'd look silly on you.

530 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:00:15pm

re: #505 windsagio

lol, I think LVQ is the subject of a number of preemptive strikes, now that you mention it ;)

not by me...

531 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:00:31pm

re: #529 MandyManners

It'd look silly on you.

Depends on where it was sitting.

532 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:00:51pm

re: #530 brookly red

well whatta you expect me to do, call people out? Thats sure a good idea!


PS: Bad Jimmah!

533 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:00:55pm

re: #524 Bear

Most stuff you can rip an image from using Nero or some other software, then you just copy the ISO file over to the Netbook and mount it using Magic Disk.

534 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:01:03pm

re: #531 Walter L. Newton

Ooohhh.

535 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:01:03pm

re: #523 Walter L. Newton

Same here.

zingo!

536 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:01:16pm

re: #522 Walter L. Newton

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

And I explained that completely in the last thread and provided you with 5 academic references. Read them.

537 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:01:39pm

re: #521 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh charming. As far as Sal was concerned he painted himself into a corner. He wanted to be seen a s smart. That was why he put up that silly logic puzzle in a debate about AGW. He didn't care for the science. He cared about people calling him clever. As to some of the interpretations there of the exchange, well fine, let those people hate me who wrote that. One of them really is on my permanent persona non grata list to the extent that I truly will not interact with him anymore.

Mine too. I was just commenting to iceweasel in chat that that person has burnt his last life as far as I'm concerned after watching him in action on the AGW thread downstairs.

538 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:02:16pm

re: #532 windsagio

well whatta you expect me to do, call people out? Thats sure a good idea!

PS: Bad Jimmah!

hush I am still working on the coordinates...

539 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:02:24pm

re: #502 windsagio

The Saudi state is awful :p

But just to throw it in absolutist terms, do you think the US would be better as a benign dictatorship, or is doomed to become one?

I have lived in Saudi. It is more awful for us than most Saudis. Follow the mostly benign rules and it is not too bad.

However to answer your question, and you know the answer, any form of dictatorship is inherently programmed to self destruct eventually because it cannot reinvent itself.

On the other hand it is trivially simple to argue that certain circumstances, like war or serious threat of war, could warrant a form of dictatorship, which is why the worst ones tend to always be at war or threat of war.

540 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:02:36pm

you guys with your petty gossip, sound like a bunch of blue haired old ladies

541 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:02:39pm

re: #537 Jimmah

Mine too. I was just commenting to iceweasel in chat that that person has burnt his last life as far as I'm concerned after watching him in action on the AGW thread downstairs.

Fair enough.

542 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:03:07pm

re: #536 LudwigVanQuixote

And I explained that completely in the last thread and provided you with 5 academic references. Read them.

I used the opportunity to post those links for the pleasure of other Lizards... enjoy folks...

543 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:03:32pm

re: #528 The Sanity Inspector

British anti-vax doctor censured by General Medical Council.

He also said Dr Wakefield should have disclosed the fact that he had been paid to advise solicitors acting for parents who believed their children had been harmed by the MMR.

Doc Wakefield sounds like a right piece of shit work.

544 Bear  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:03:57pm

re: #533 PT Barnum

Boy have you lost me. I had enough trouble with fancy slide rules.

545 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:04:28pm

re: #540 albusteve

you guys with your petty gossip, sound like a bunch of blue haired old ladies

Where is Aunt Bea?

546 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:04:32pm

re: #507 MandyManners

Miss Virginia won.

Somehow I never visualized you watching that. Always something interesting to learn here.

547 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:05:25pm

Wading back in. Putting on the thigh highs.

548 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:05:39pm

re: #542 Walter L. Newton

I used the opportunity to post those links for the pleasure of other Lizards... enjoy folks...

And I'm sure there was nothing passive aggressive or snarky about your actions at all Walter. If anyone cares to see the context of that or why Walter id just stirring shit, please look downstairs at the other AGW thread. I only explained to him his issue three times in three different ways and provided the counter papers to show why he was wrong. I won't drag it up here.

549 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:06:09pm

re: #547 Silvergirl

Wading back in. Putting on the thigh highs.

You know I really have never said a mean thing to you. There is no reason to snark at me.

550 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:06:10pm

re: #544 Bear

an ISO image is just a bit for bit copy of the CD. You copy the ISO file over to the netbook from a USB memory stick or via your network.

You mount the image in Magic Disk by saying this file is a virtual CD. Magic Disk then let's you access that file like it was a CD, which means you can install from it, or run it like it was an actual CD attached to the netbook. Hope that helps.

551 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:06:16pm

re: #545 NJDhockeyfan

Where is Aunt Bea?

I'd rather she'd be here, than all these vain, petty, egotist that take themselves way too serious

552 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:06:23pm

re: #547 Silvergirl

Wading back in. Putting on the thigh highs.

The blood is spreading.

553 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:06:27pm

re: #548 LudwigVanQuixote

And I'm sure there was nothing passive aggressive or snarky about your actions at all Walter. If anyone cares to see the context of that or why Walter id just stirring shit, please look downstairs at the other AGW thread. I only explained to him his issue three times in three different ways and provided the counter papers to show why he was wrong. I won't drag it up here.

That goodness for small favors.

554 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:06:51pm

re: #547 Silvergirl

Are they leather with 4 inch heels? Dominate me!

555 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:07:08pm

re: #547 Silvergirl

Wading back in. Putting on the thigh highs.

Leather or latex?

556 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:07:31pm

re: #541 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough.

It was the 'Kapo' comment that did it for me.

557 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:07:40pm

re: #555 Naso Tang

Beat you to it!

558 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:08:06pm

re: #389 Van Helsing

No KSM trial in New YorkNYT

Probably a smart move if the security was going to cost a billion dollars. I saw no emotional reason to do the trial in NYC and no reason not to be in NYC other than the cost. Is there some Constitutional constraint against holding this on a military base with a hotel next to it? Bus the jurors in every day, give only written transcripts to the media (which seems to be good enough for the Supreme Court), problem solved?

559 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:08:51pm

re: #548 LudwigVanQuixote

And I'm sure there was nothing passive aggressive or snarky about your actions at all Walter. If anyone cares to see the context of that or why Walter id just stirring shit, please look downstairs at the other AGW thread. I only explained to him his issue three times in three different ways and provided the counter papers to show why he was wrong. I won't drag it up here.

Thank you.

560 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:09:12pm

re: #556 Jimmah

It was the 'Kapo' comment that did it for me.

Yeah I know. I'll still engage Walter because he really doesn't think about what he is saying sometimes and doesn't mean to be as awful as he is. The other one has no excuse.

561 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:09:15pm

re: #549 LudwigVanQuixote

You know I really have never said a mean thing to you. There is no reason to snark at me.

for the record as much shit as I give you, no, you are never mean to anyone.

deluded in your politics yes, but never a bad person.

562 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:09:26pm

re: #556 Jimmah

It was the 'Kapo' comment that did it for me.

What is Kapo?

563 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:09:50pm

re: #561 brookly red

for the record as much shit as I give you, no, you are never mean to anyone.

deluded in your politics yes, but never a bad person.

Uhhh ok thanks....

564 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:10:20pm

re: #562 NJDhockeyfan

What is Kapo?

A Jew who collaborated with the Nazis to kill other Jews and spare his own life.

565 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:10:32pm

re: #532 windsagio

well whatta you expect me to do, call people out? Thats sure a good idea!

PS: Bad Jimmah!

Heh. That's it - I'm out (for a bit) Have fun :)

566 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:11:08pm

re: #560 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah I know. I'll still engage Walter because he really doesn't think about what he is saying sometimes and doesn't mean to be as awful as he is. The other one has no excuse.

No, I do mean what I say, and if you can manage not to talk to me, it would be a blessing.

567 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:12:10pm

re: #336 LudwigVanQuixote

Hi Ludwig!
*waves*
Glad to "see" you back!
Hope all is well with you!

568 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:12:36pm

re: #565 Jimmah

Heh. That's it - I'm out (for a bit) Have fun :)


[Video]

/Dang, please make longer posts... I almost had a lock.

569 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:12:44pm

re: #507 MandyManners

Miss Virginia won.

I know. My wife was watching. Me, guess it's more interesting here.

570 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:12:48pm

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

No, I do mean what I say, and if you can manage not to talk to me, it would be a blessing.

Fine then don't talk to me either and I will be very happy as well. Try it then.

571 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:12:54pm

re: #558 keloyd

Probably a smart move if the security was going to cost a billion dollars. I saw no emotional reason to do the trial in NYC and no reason not to be in NYC other than the cost. Is there some Constitutional constraint against holding this on a military base with a hotel next to it? Bus the jurors in every day, give only written transcripts to the media (which seems to be good enough for the Supreme Court), problem solved?

I would rather see the charges dismissed and have the terrorists sent back to the military tribunals. It would be cheaper, more secure, and with no danger of letting any intelligence techniques be made public.

572 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:13:12pm

Dame Trot and her cat
Led a peaceable life
When they were not troubled
With other folks' strife.

573 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:13:19pm

re: #549 LudwigVanQuixote

You know I really have never said a mean thing to you. There is no reason to snark at me.

Listen, please. When you first appeared, we had some lovely (as I remember them) late night conversations. You and Zombie were fascinating to watch interact, and I mean that sincerely. This was before whatever happened happened.

You seem to take so many things personally. You have a wick about this long. (I'm holding up two fingers so close together you can hardly see daylight between them)

You called people scum just now and you've done far worse, yet there was a flame war recently over calling people filth. Scum vs. filth. I'm not sure how much difference we have here.

Okay, I got a bit snarky when you entered the thread. But my thing about wading in isn't only about you. It's not always about you. You're not here talking to yourself.

574 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:13:20pm

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

No, I do mean what I say, and if you can manage not to talk to me, it would be a blessing.

*blesses Ludwig silently.* SILENTLY, do you hear?

575 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:13:28pm

re: #567 Floral Giraffe

Hi Ludwig!
*waves*
Glad to "see" you back!
Hope all is well with you!

I am so happy to see you too. I was really busy in the lab and I have been swamped. There really are a lot of people I adore here. I promise you are one of them.

576 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:13:54pm

re: #564 LudwigVanQuixote

A Jew who collaborated with the Nazis to kill other Jews and spare his own life.

Yikes!

577 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:14:32pm

re: #568 brookly red

/Dang, please make longer posts... I almost had a lock.

(stupid piece of crap Chinese cruise missiles ...)

578 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:14:34pm

re: #570 LudwigVanQuixote

Fine then don't talk to me either and I will be very happy as well. Try it then.

I will talk to whom ever I want to.

579 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:14:41pm

re: #573 Silvergirl

Listen, please. When you first appeared, we had some lovely (as I remember them) late night conversations. You and Zombie were fascinating to watch interact, and I mean that sincerely. This was before whatever happened happened.

You seem to take so many things personally. You have a wick about this long. (I'm holding up two fingers so close together you can hardly see daylight between them)

You called people scum just now and you've done far worse, yet there was a flame war recently over calling people filth. Scum vs. filth. I'm not sure how much difference we have here.

Okay, I got a bit snarky when you entered the thread. But my thing about wading in isn't only about you. It's not always about you. You're not here talking to yourself.

OK so I have a small penis according to you and I am arrogantly thinking it is not about me when you wrote you were leaving because of me... And I am the one who starts stuff?

580 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:15:03pm

re: #576 NJDhockeyfan

Yikes!

So you might understand how that made me angry?

581 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:15:23pm

re: #579 LudwigVanQuixote

OK so I have a small penis according to you and I am arrogantly thinking it is not about me when you wrote you were leaving because of me... And I am the one who starts stuff?

Oh. my. gawd.

Penis?

582 jaunte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:15:32pm

re: #579 LudwigVanQuixote

( I think she meant short fuse, not the other thing...)

583 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:15:32pm

re: #578 Walter L. Newton

I will talk to whom ever I want to.

Fine then don't go telling me not to respond to your foolishness.

584 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:16:01pm

re: #574 jotalot

Who the hell are you? Fuck off jerk.

585 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:16:16pm

re: #579 LudwigVanQuixote

lol I can't tell if you're joking or not.


I'm on your side, really I am, but if you're pissed off at that you need to seriously chill.

586 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:16:26pm

re: #583 LudwigVanQuixote

Fine then don't go telling me not to respond to your foolishness.

It's a deal... :)

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

587 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:16:36pm

re: #581 Silvergirl

Oh. my. gawd.

Penis?

Ummm did you mean fuse rather than wick perhaps? I really don't. I think if you look at those threads it takes several snarks for me to finally get fed up.

588 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:16:41pm

I think it's time to say bbl

589 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:17:04pm

re: #573 Silvergirl

Listen, please. When you first appeared, we had some lovely (as I remember them) late night conversations. You and Zombie were fascinating to watch interact, and I mean that sincerely. This was before whatever happened happened.

You seem to take so many things personally. You have a wick about this long. (I'm holding up two fingers so close together you can hardly see daylight between them)

You called people scum just now and you've done far worse, yet there was a flame war recently over calling people filth. Scum vs. filth. I'm not sure how much difference we have here.

Okay, I got a bit snarky when you entered the thread. But my thing about wading in isn't only about you. It's not always about you. You're not here talking to yourself.

Very well said.

590 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:17:15pm

re: #500 LudwigVanQuixote

Just disagreeing I do not get angry at. Violating basic principles of democracy bothers me and repeating anti-science nonsense bothers me. Starting it out with an insult to me like I am not actually a scientist or any other such stuff makes me a might cranky. When it degenerates into someone calling me a kapo, I get furious. So no I really don't stat with insults. I actually started begging people to look at data like I always do, and they never look. Eventually,, dangerous lies are an issue.

And for the record, billions of lives are at stake with AGW. It is not a subject to lightly agree to disagree on. You get it right or we all suffer. If the various GOP drones here would actually care to look at the science, I am always cordial and willing to present them with all the explanations, facts and data they could want. I have typed about a book here explaining the science of AGW in the past year. I am happy to keep explaining. If they come slinging crap about something that will kill people and collapse our civilization then they get the disdain they deserve.

Then as a scientist, I respectfully disagree with some of the AGW predictions. Given that "GW" is occurring and "A" might be a significant contributor, I still think statements like "billions of lives are at stake with AGW" are sensationalist, at best.

591 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:17:20pm

re: #580 LudwigVanQuixote

So you might understand how that made me angry?

Anyone would get angry about that. The problem is you get angry with anyone who doesn't share your point of view.

592 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:17:24pm

re: #587 LudwigVanQuixote

Its a big problem. People pull all this weaselly crap and then get all offended when they're called on it.

I dunno if its brave or dumb that you're willing to come at them on it ;)

593 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:17:26pm

re: #580 LudwigVanQuixote

Having fun talking behind my back Ludwig?

The reason I called you a Kapo is because you were dehuminising your fellow Jew calling me "scum" and twisting my words to insinuate I was an antiSemite. That sort of blind hatred earns you the label I gave you.

594 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:17:35pm

re: #585 windsagio

lol I can't tell if you're joking or not.

I'm on your side, really I am, but if you're pissed off at that you need to seriously chill.

NO I missread her... I am guessing now that she meant fuse by wick and not the other thing.

595 Bear  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:17:49pm

re: #550 PT Barnum

Total lost!!! Under the old DOS I could Disk Copy *.* to transfer]the program on to a new floppy.
Perhaps what you are telling me is that I could load the program from the program disk into a standard laptop and then some how get the program into the Magic Disk and then use that to load the program into the ACER via a USB port.

596 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:18:02pm

re: #584 Walter L. Newton

Who the hell are you? Fuck off jerk.

jeezus....i'm nobody. and meant nothing bad. christalmighty. who the hell are you? was a j o k e.

597 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:18:04pm

re: #593 Bagua

Having fun talking behind my back Ludwig?

The reason I called you a Kapo is because you were dehuminising your fellow Jew calling me "scum" and twisting my words to insinuate I was an antiSemite. That sort of blind hatred earns you the label I gave you.

He was certainly doing that, and much more.

598 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:18:14pm

re: #581 Silvergirl

Oh. my. gawd.

Penis?

That might explain a lot.

599 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:18:27pm

re: #596 jotalot

thats walter for ya :)

/speaking of short wicks...

600 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:19:15pm

re: #596 jotalot

jeezus...i'm nobody. and meant nothing bad. christalmighty. who the hell are you? was a j o k e.

Sorry.

601 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:19:18pm

re: #599 windsagio

thats walter for ya :)

/speaking of short wicks...

oooOOOOOoooooh

602 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:19:27pm

re: #595 Bear

Probably need more instruction than I can give in a thread like this...

603 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:19:36pm

re: #596 jotalot

jeezus...i'm nobody. and meant nothing bad. christalmighty. who the hell are you? was a j o k e.

have a brew?

604 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:19:49pm

re: #601 jotalot

oooOOOoooh

I'll take back my apology :)

605 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:19:55pm

re: #601 jotalot

heh, this is a bad thread to get your feet wet in. Don't let us chase you off :P

606 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:20:04pm

re: #546 Naso Tang

Somehow I never visualized you watching that. Always something interesting to learn here.

I useta' be a majorette and cheerleader, too.

607 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:20:07pm

re: #600 Walter L. Newton

Sorry.

sokay Walter. I'm new. Not here to stir the proverbial pot. I thought I was funny is all.

608 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:20:25pm

re: #519 MandyManners

I'd kill to have her butt.

Damn, now I wish I'd watched.

609 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:20:39pm

re: #603 brookly red

have a brew?

hehe. thanks.

610 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:20:40pm

re: #605 windsagio

heh, this is a bad thread to get your feet wet in. Don't let us chase you off :P

I apologized... I didn't realize he/she/it was joking... I don't mind making amends when I jump the gun...

611 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:20:53pm

I'm gonna go play Torchlight..you guys have fun...

612 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:21:16pm

re: #611 PT Barnum

I'm gonna go play Torchlight..you guys have fun...

It's not a good idea to touch yourself there.

613 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:21:19pm

re: #610 Walter L. Newton

oh it wasn't aimed at yo uat all. I'm just as bad :p

You *do* have a short temper tho ;)

614 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:21:28pm

re: #597 Walter L. Newton

He was certainly doing that, and much more.

Thank you Walter. I do not use the term lightly. I am proud of my heritage and have defended my people my entire life. I understand that Ludwig is very passionate about the AGW theory, but when he goes on the attack calling his opponents scum, and crosses all lines by joining Obdicuts hit job to demonise me as an antisemite by twisting my words that were intended to protest antiSemitism, he has crossed a line that should not be tolerated here. I certainly do not.

615 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:21:34pm

re: #610 Walter L. Newton

I apologized... I didn't realize he/she/it was joking... I don't mind making amends when I jump the gun...

holycow imma possible "it"? lololol

616 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:21:40pm

re: #569 Unakite

I know. My wife was watching. Me, guess it's more interesting here.

You can be two places at one time.

617 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:21:45pm

re: #613 windsagio

oh it wasn't aimed at yo uat all. I'm just as bad :p

You *do* have a short temper tho ;)

No I don'....

618 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:22:09pm

re: #617 Walter L. Newton

No I don'...

*braces for explosion*

619 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:22:10pm

re: #615 jotalot

holycow imma possible "it"? lololol

I didn't want to assume too much.

620 webevintage  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:22:12pm

Thanks for the comments on Kindle vs. a netbook....


and Just a reminder because it makes me giddy to think about LOST will be back on Tuesday.

621 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:22:30pm

re: #619 Walter L. Newton

wisely, its a capital offense around here to get someones gender wrong :o

622 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:23:11pm

re: #619 Walter L. Newton

I didn't want to assume too much.

*nods seriously* good move

623 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:23:47pm

re: #621 windsagio

wisely, its a capital offense around here to get someones gender wrong :o

no it's not...

624 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:24:25pm

FTR: IT is not a gender?

625 Bear  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:24:31pm

re: #602 PT Barnum

How true!! You know the saying that you can't teach old folks new tricks. That certainly is the case with me. Drawing board, T-square, triangles, etc are more my level I fear.

Thank you though for your help.

626 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:24:33pm

face it, some people are real buttheads and there is nothing anyone can do about it....but to claim the friction is annoying or whatever and then gleefully participate and perpetuate it is as phony as a tgree dollar bill....people love the partisan sniping and protecting their vanity

627 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:25:04pm

re: #620 webevintage

Thanks for the comments on Kindle vs. a netbook...

and Just a reminder because it makes me giddy to think about LOST will be back on Tuesday.

Did you see that ABC actually released the first 4 minutes of the show...

[Link: www.docarzt.com...]

628 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:25:16pm

Why has global warming paused? Water vapor may be in the answer.

A decline in stratospheric water vapor between 2000 and 2009 followed an apparent increase between 1980 and 2000, a team of scientists has found. That finding may have implications for global warming.

A decade-long plateau in global warming appears to have occurred in large part because the stratosphere – the layer of atmosphere that few but airliners enter – got drier.

That’s an explanation by a team of atmospheric scientists from the United States and Germany. They’ve studied trends in stratospheric water vapor over the past 30 years and calculated the effects of those trends on temperatures.

A decline in stratospheric water vapor between 2000 and 2009 followed an apparent increase between 1980 and 2000, according to balloon and satellite measurements that the team used. The decline slowed the long-term growth in global average temperatures by some 25 percent, compared with the warming one could expect from rising concentrations of greenhouse gases alone, the team estimates.

"There's not a lot of water in the stratosphere. It's extremely dry," says Susan Solomon, an atmospheric scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Earth System Research Laboratory in Boulder, Colo., who led the team. "But it packs a wallop" in terms of its climatic effects, she says.

Other factors probably played a role as well in the temperature plateau, the team acknowledges.

Another contributor could have been sulfate aerosols from the rising number of coal-fired power plants in China, point out researchers such as Drew Shindell, with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York.

Still, he and others agree, the new results indicate that stratospheric water vapor, especially in the lowest regions of the stratosphere, can have a significant impact on global average temperature trends when viewed in decade-long time frames.

Water vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. By some estimates, it accounts for anywhere from 36 percent to 85 percent of the atmosphere's greenhouse effect, depending on whether clouds are included.

But the vast majority of that water vapor resides in the troposphere, which is the layer below the stratosphere. This is where the most of the day-to-day weather – and over long periods, climate – activity takes place.

[snip]

629 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:25:20pm

Grammar has gender.

Peoplle have sex.

630 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:25:41pm

re: #618 windsagio

*braces for explosion*

Sparks are flying...

631 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:26:16pm

Does IT have grammar?

632 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:26:49pm

re: #629 MandyManners

Grammar has gender.

Peoplle have sex.

they do IT... ;)

633 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:26:53pm

re: #626 albusteve

People also like to pretend they're outside observers to the whole thing ;)

634 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:27:16pm

re: #628 NJDhockeyfan

can't be true, the science is settled....why waste our time you heretic?

635 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:27:21pm

re: #628 NJDhockeyfan

Are you trying to cause trouble?

636 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:27:34pm

re: #570 LudwigVanQuixote

Fine then don't talk to me either and I will be very happy as well. Try it then.

"He touched me."
"No I didn't."
"yes, you did."
"Dad, tell him to leave me alone."

Damn, I love intelligent conversations.

637 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:28:44pm

re: #636 Unakite

"He touched me."
"No I didn't."
"yes, you did."
"Dad, tell him to leave me alone."

Damn, I love intelligent conversations.

"Stop kicking my seat!"

638 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:29:12pm

re: #635 Walter L. Newton

Are you trying to cause trouble?

Why, did someone's head explode?

639 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:29:14pm

re: #636 Unakite

"He touched me."
"No I didn't."
"yes, you did."
"Dad, tell him to leave me alone."

Damn, I love intelligent conversations.

It wasn't intelligent, and I wasn't trying to be intelligent, just playing for the lowest common denominator... evidently it worked.

640 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:29:26pm

If I have to come up there,..!

641 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:30:05pm

re: #640 MandyManners

If I have to come up there,..!

One!
Two!

642 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:30:06pm

re: #640 MandyManners

If I have to come up there,..!

Are you going to spank me?

643 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:30:32pm

re: #628 NJDhockeyfan

Obviously in the pocket of Big Christian Chinese Coal.

644 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:30:50pm

re: #636 Unakite

"He touched me."
"No I didn't."
"yes, you did."
"Dad, tell him to leave me alone."

Damn, I love intelligent conversations.

most of those posters are long gone...you're stuck with us now

645 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:31:31pm

re: #644 albusteve

ohh yeah thats a good one too. All the good, smart posters left, and alot of them ended up as stalkers ;)

646 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:32:23pm

The reason Weathermen are so prone to AGW scepticism is because they have studied the climate, it is their field. The present "Climatologists" are cross-overs from other fields, Climate Science as a discipline is to new for any of them to have studied climate science in university unless they studied meteorology to work as Weathermen or researchers.

The wheels are coming off of the AGW alarmism as we are coming to understand more and more about the real state of the science, so it is no surprise to see the hysterics from the true believers.

647 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:33:34pm

*blushing*

648 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:34:29pm

re: #590 Unakite

Then as a scientist, I respectfully disagree with some of the AGW predictions. Given that "GW" is occurring and "A" might be a significant contributor, I still think statements like "billions of lives are at stake with AGW" are sensationalist, at best.

OK so then let's look at this scientifically, because this cuts to the core of what detractors of AGW and not just me say.

First off, it is very well established that CO2 is a GHG and that we have drastically increased CO2 concentrations in the last century. One look at the Keeling Curves will show this.

[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]
[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]
[Link: www.pnas.org...]

If you accept the basic QM of CO2 then you accept that it traps and re radiates IR and if you couple that with the IR output of the sun, then you must conclude, inescapably that we must warm. Indeed we have seen this dramatically.

So what are the consequences of that and the feedbacks?

OK we are looking at sea level rises on the order of a meter or more by the end of this century or by the middle of the next century at the latest.

I will post some papers to back up these assertions BTW.

We are looking at a dramatic shift in growing patterns and a dramatic loss of fresh water for those who rely on rain or snow melts for their water.

We are looking at ocean anoxia (this has more to do with CO2 getting dissolved into the oceans and killing photosynthesizes than it's interaction with IR) which will remove the oceans as a food source and remove the algae and phyto plankton that scrub excess CO2 from eh atmosphere.

Further, contagion will spread because as climates and habitats change, disease vectors switch to new places where already hungry and homeless people will be massed together and not have immunities.

So in short, we are looking at drastic loss of coastline:

[Link: www.pnas.org...]

a drastic reduction in food production because crops don't like to be cooked or do without rain.

[Link: www.agcarbonmarkets.com...]

and a spread of disease vectors

in a trend that is accelerating:

[Link: www.pnas.org...]

[Link: www.pnas.org...]

[Link: www.gfdl.noaa.gov...]

So quite clearly, we are looking at billions of possible deaths. People die if they do not have food water and shelter and then get sick or fight wars for dwindling resources.

649 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:34:51pm

re: #646 Bagua

The reason Weathermen are so prone to AGW scepticism is because they have studied the climate, it is their field. The present "Climatologists" are cross-overs from other fields, Climate Science as a discipline is to new for any of them to have studied climate science in university unless they studied meteorology to work as Weathermen or researchers.

The wheels are coming off of the AGW alarmism as we are coming to understand more and more about the real state of the science, so it is no surprise to see the hysterics from the true believers.


[Video]

huh? now you go on topic?

650 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:35:30pm

re: #643 Van Helsing

Obviously in the pocket of Big Christian Chinese Coal.

The American & German scientists probably aren't real scientists.

;)

651 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:36:23pm

re: #614 Bagua

Cherem.

652 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:36:45pm

re: #648 LudwigVanQuixote

The End Of The World Is Coming!

653 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:36:45pm

re: #649 brookly red

huh? now you go on topic?

Why not? Am I wrong to defend myself from personal attacks in my absence first?

654 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:37:21pm

re: #649 brookly red

just a change of tactics >

655 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:37:50pm

re: #616 MandyManners

You can be two places at one time.

Yes, by choice. You can also be somewhere else by choice too. I chose to be somewhere else. :)

Butt it does sound like I missed something!

656 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:37:59pm

re: #646 Bagua

The reason Weathermen are so prone to AGW scepticism is because they have studied the climate, it is their field. The present "Climatologists" are cross-overs from other fields, Climate Science as a discipline is to new for any of them to have studied climate science in university unless they studied meteorology to work as Weathermen or researchers.

The wheels are coming off of the AGW alarmism as we are coming to understand more and more about the real state of the science, so it is no surprise to see the hysterics from the true believers.

It's becoming more and more evident that while a lot of people were not watching, the AGW science was hijacked by "scientist" who had more of a political and monetary interest then in any interest in solid science.

The High Priest of climate science Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, The head of the UN's climate change panel, has become an embarrassment to many scientist who have a honest interest in the problem of AGW.

657 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:38:20pm

re: #575 LudwigVanQuixote

I am so happy to see you too. I was really busy in the lab and I have been swamped. There really are a lot of people I adore here. I promise you are one of them.

*blushes*
Thank you kindly!

Sheesh! I've had a whole day, now, of nice compliments!
(I could get used to it!)

658 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:38:30pm

re: #656 Walter L. Newton

there you go again.

659 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:38:38pm

re: #653 Bagua

Why not? Am I wrong to defend myself from personal attacks in my absence first?

no if it was personal then have at it, I was just commenting on the timing of the thread... personal, then go for it.

660 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:38:40pm

re: #652 NJDhockeyfan

The End Of The World Is Coming!

No you might see why that is so very frustrating. If we don't do something about it, the science clearly shows that we are looking at a global catastrophe that our current civilization will not survive.

661 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:38:59pm

re: #655 Unakite

Yes, by choice. You can also be somewhere else by choice too. I chose to be somewhere else. :)

Butt it does sound like I missed something!

Just a bunch of pretty women in skimpy bikinis.

662 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:39:44pm

re: #660 LudwigVanQuixote

No you might see why that is so very frustrating. If we don't do something about it, the science clearly shows that we are looking at a global catastrophe that our current civilization will not survive.

Not buying it. No offense.

663 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:39:56pm

re: #656 Walter L. Newton

It's becoming more and more evident that while a lot of people were not watching, the AGW science was hijacked by "scientist" who had more of a political and monetary interest then in any interest in solid science.

The High Priest of climate science Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, The head of the UN's climate change panel, has become an embarrassment to many scientist who have a honest interest in the problem of AGW.

And that is not insulting or ignorant?

Read the science. I just posted an entire explanation of pretty much every assertion you could care to look for with scientific links no less and yet you pontificate.

664 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:40:44pm

re: #662 NJDhockeyfan

Not buying it. No offense.

Then read the science. Don't take my word for it, actually try to get educated. We are not hiding the facts from you. The papers are right there. That is a fine place to start. There are thousands more.

665 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:40:53pm

re: #663 LudwigVanQuixote

And that is not insulting or ignorant?

Read the science. I just posted an entire explanation of pretty much every assertion you could care to look for with scientific links no less and yet you pontificate.

Read the problems...

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

666 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:41:01pm

What we have seen in recent weeks is all the most outrageous and alarmist predictions that have been tacked onto the AGW theory smashed, one after another.

The False Glacier Claims.
The False Amazon Claims.
The False historical temperature reconstruction claims.

This does not undermine the actual theory of AGW, that the increase of CO2 can increase atmospheric temperatures, but it puts paid to the alarmist fear mongering by the likes of WWF and Greenpeace that has taken over, and perverted the science.

As the IPCC is a UN organisation, this should come as little shock to many here. The end result however, will be positive for the actual science once the media hype and political hype is removed.

667 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:41:04pm

Global warming ranks last as a top priority: Pew survey

Among 21 social and economic issues, global warming ranks last as a top priority to Americans, who view it as increasingly less urgent, according to an annual survey released Monday by the Pew Research Center for People & the Press.

Just 28% of the 1,504 adults surveyed consider "dealing with global warming" a top priority, down from 38% three years ago. "Such a low ranking," Pew reports, "is driven in part by indifference among Republicans: just 11% consider global warming a top priority, compared with 43% of Democrats and 25% of independents."

"Protecting the environment" fared somewhat better, ranking 16th among issues. Some 44% say it should be a top priority for President Obama and Congress, down from 57% in 2007.

"Dealing with U.S. energy problem" is also seen as less urgent than it was three years ago: About 49% see it as a top priority now, compared to 57% in 2007.

668 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:41:06pm

re: #661 MandyManners

Just a bunch of pretty women in skimpy bikinis.

I always miss the good stuff.

669 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:41:07pm

re: #658 windsagio

there you go again.

Thank you for the compliment.

670 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:41:13pm

re: #657 Floral Giraffe

*blushes*
Thank you kindly!

Sheesh! I've had a whole day, now, of nice compliments!
(I could get used to it!)

You know, you're a really, really gracious receiver of compliments, you know that?

:)

671 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:42:00pm

re: #659 brookly red

no if it was personal then have at it, I was just commenting on the timing of the thread... personal, then go for it.

No problem mate, just explaining why I said a few words in my defense. I prefer to stick to the topic as well.

672 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:43:53pm

re: #664 LudwigVanQuixote

Then read the science. Don't take my word for it, actually try to get educated. We are not hiding the facts from you. The papers are right there. That is a fine place to start. There are thousands more.

I have read articles supporting AGW, articles supporting Global Cooling, and everything in between. I am not in the AGW camp, sorry.

673 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:43:56pm

re: #665 Walter L. Newton

Read the problems...

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

Walter this is crap. I explained why these were crap on the last thread and gave you five papers.

You were relived that I didn't debunk you again up here, yet you keep reposting the same old tired nonsense. Please do try to bring some science that is not bullshit.

674 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:44:07pm

re: #667 NJDhockeyfan

Global warming ranks last as a top priority: Pew survey

Indeed, the alarmists have jumped the Shark methinks. Once the hysteria dies down and the alarmists have been sidelined, we can get back to the science. In another decade or so we will have a much clearer idea of what is happening, or not.

675 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:44:09pm

re: #669 Walter L. Newton

It seemed nicer than the alternative.

Your whole 'I'm just worried that they're hurting the AGW science, which I really really believe in, REALLY!' act is just annoying :P

676 jaunte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:44:11pm

Just for argument, assuming that the worst predictions of AGW will come true, what should we be prepared to do? I don't think carbon credit trading is effective means of addressing the problem.

677 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:45:19pm

re: #672 NJDhockeyfan

I have read articles supporting AGW, articles supporting Global Cooling, and everything in between. I am not in the AGW camp, sorry.

Wait a minute, those are not articles. Those are journal papers and links to government science institutions. Read the actual science please. Or if you honestly think you have read about this and are still "not buying it" then please tell me why? What is the missing piece to your puzzle?

678 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:45:24pm

re: #666 Bagua

What we have seen in recent weeks is all the most outrageous and alarmist predictions that have been tacked onto the AGW theory smashed, one after another.

The False Glacier Claims.
The False Amazon Claims.
The False historical temperature reconstruction claims.

This does not undermine the actual theory of AGW, that the increase of CO2 can increase atmospheric temperatures, but it puts paid to the alarmist fear mongering by the likes of WWF and Greenpeace that has taken over, and perverted the science.

As the IPCC is a UN organisation, this should come as little shock to many here. The end result however, will be positive for the actual science once the media hype and political hype is removed.

Evidently some people have more of a stake in the non-science of the WWF and Greenpeace and have no faith in the real science of AGW. If they want the IPCC to rule as the High Priest of AGW, it makes me wonder if they really want the science to fail all together?

False flag operation?

679 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:45:38pm

re: #660 LudwigVanQuixote

No you might see why that is so very frustrating. If we don't do something about it, the science clearly shows that we are looking at a global catastrophe that our current civilization will not survive.

Somebody ought to suggest to Charles that he make a folder of these AGW links of yours. A handy reference file, to be perused at leisure.

680 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:46:02pm

re: #678 Walter L. Newton

Evidently some people have more of a stake in the non-science of the WWF and Greenpeace and have no faith in the real science of AGW. If they want the IPCC to rule as the High Priest of AGW, it makes me wonder if they really want the science to fail all together?

False flag operation?

Walter these are unfounded insults and slurs. Do you have any science at all in your discussion?

681 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:46:42pm

re: #679 The Sanity Inspector

Somebody ought to suggest to Charles that he make a folder of these AGW links of yours. A handy reference file, to be perused at leisure.

Thanks. I am sure I have posted around 100 links on AGW by now.

682 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:46:45pm

re: #675 windsagio

It seemed nicer than the alternative.

Your whole 'I'm just worried that they're hurting the AGW science, which I really really believe in, REALLY!' act is just annoying :P

Not my problem.

683 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:47:08pm

re: #682 Walter L. Newton

I'd think you'd at least deny it >>

684 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:47:11pm

re: #677 LudwigVanQuixote

Wait a minute, those are not articles. Those are journal papers and links to government science institutions. Read the actual science please. Or if you honestly think you have read about this and are still "not buying it" then please tell me why? What is the missing piece to your puzzle?

How many years of recorded data are the scientists basing their AGW assumptions on?

685 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:47:56pm

re: #676 jaunte

Just for argument, assuming that the worst predictions of AGW will come true, what should we be prepared to do? I don't think carbon credit trading is effective means of addressing the problem.

Assuring the delivery of clean, inexpensive energy would be a great start. Whether GW has an A component or not, having abundant energy available will be the best starting point for dealing with warming (or cooling) for that matter.

Given a choice, I'll take warming over an ice age any time as an easier problem to deal with.

686 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:47:57pm

re: #672 NJDhockeyfan

I have read articles supporting AGW, articles supporting Global Cooling, and everything in between. I am not in the AGW camp, sorry.

Personally, I believe a good case has been made for some human impact on climate due to increased CO2, deforestation and other human impacts. But the case for this current temperature being unique based upon using trees as thermometers accurate to a tenth of a degree is risible and falling apart, as are the sexed up claims about the Amazon and Glaciers.

Thus the urgency that is demanding we limit and alter our fundamental way of life and economy right now, is sounding more and more like hype and hysteria.

687 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:48:02pm

re: #660 LudwigVanQuixote

No you might see why that is so very frustrating. If we don't do something about it, the science clearly shows that we are looking at a global catastrophe that our current civilization will not survive.

I know.... It just hit me on the head. I must go and tell the KING!

688 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:48:04pm

re: #680 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter these are unfounded insults and slurs. Do you have any science at all in your discussion?

You are now speaking for the IPCC and Dr Rajendra Pachauri... hell, on the thread down below you admitted to not even knowing who he was.

689 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:49:16pm

re: #660 LudwigVanQuixote

No you might see why that is so very frustrating. If we don't do something about it, the science clearly shows that we are looking at a global catastrophe that our current civilization will not survive.

you can relax....we are not going to do anything about it....it becomes pointless to keep screeching that we do

690 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:49:45pm

Am I the only one who, after a few dozen exchanges on one of these AGW threads, starts to wish that the seas would rise, and the ground bake, NOW, just so we could be put out of our misery?

691 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:49:48pm

re: #689 albusteve

well thats grim.

692 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:50:15pm

re: #681 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks. I am sure I have posted around 100 links on AGW by now.

Maybe you could pare them down to the dozen most salient ones or something. I'm on record as admitting that much of the science is beyond me, so I hate to think I'm getting bamboozled by either side.

Now, the politics of what to do about AGW? A whole separate other issue, in which I maintain a deep distrust for our would-be saviors.

693 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:50:15pm

Science has never, and will never be free of political shenanigans. We didn't think stuff was made out of atoms for 25 centuries because back in the day, Democritus* (whose theories stated stuff is made of atoms instead of some combination of earth, air, water, and fire) got mixed up with the secular humanists of his time - the Epicureans. Later on, Stoics took over, then Christians. They had no choice but to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm not against Global Warming, but since when do Hollywood divas and Al Gore get it right? On any other subject, when have you heard the most fashionable, most hysterical of this group say something on any subject and thought to yourself, "yup! That's exactly how it is!"

*from A History of Science from Antiquity to ___, by ____ Principe, as far as I can remember.

694 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:50:26pm

re: #688 Walter L. Newton

You are now speaking for the IPCC and Dr Rajendra Pachauri... hell, on the thread down below you admitted to not even knowing who he was.

The man describes as the worlds greatest Climate Scientist, turns out to be making millions on his alarmism. He also owns a company that profits from increasing the extraction of Oil and has other direct ties to big oil. The hypocrisy is monumental, but because he is one side, he gets a pass.

695 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:51:12pm

re: #690 SanFranciscoZionist

Truth and Justice and all that ;)

696 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:51:24pm

re: #675 windsagio

It seemed nicer than the alternative.

Your whole 'I'm just worried that they're hurting the AGW science, which I really really believe in, REALLY!' act is just annoying :P

why is it an "act"?...what's up with that?....can you dispute the material posted or deny the PPP is taking a major hit?

697 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:51:42pm

re: #692 The Sanity Inspector

Maybe you could pare them down to the dozen most salient ones or something. I'm on record as admitting that much of the science is beyond me, so I hate to think I'm getting bamboozled by either side.

Now, the politics of what to do about AGW? A whole separate other issue, in which I maintain a deep distrust for our would-be saviors.

Ludwig won't separate the politics from the real science. You have to swallow the jerks along with the good science or nothing at all.

698 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:52:20pm

re: #670 The Sanity Inspector

You know, you're a really, really gracious receiver of compliments, you know that?

:)

I've had a lovely day, FULL of compliments, that I have worked hard for YEARS to earn. It's very nice to have skills, talents and dedication recognized.

I am also VERY proud to call myself a Lizard.
This is a super duper smart bunch of people.
Who, IMHO should be nicer to each other.
The mean/nastiness does NOT show each or any of us in our best light.
And, Lizards are, the best & the brightest.

699 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:52:41pm

re: #696 albusteve

The part I have a problem with is the concern-trolling claiming that these scandals, such as they are, are a major blow to AGW in general.

Its understandable that people would be annoyed by that.

700 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:52:52pm

re: #684 NJDhockeyfan

How many years of recorded data are the scientists basing their AGW assumptions on?

Well why not look at the above links I posted... It is pretty well spelled out.

I'm not saying that to be snarky, but you claim you don't buy it, then you claim you have read all th literature and then you ask something that shows really clearly that you have not looked into the actual science much at all.

So in answer to your question, reliable thermometer measurements gio back to the 1700's from all lover the world thanks largely to the British, French and American Navies as well as the first meteorological associations. I will look for, but have posted before here a paper that goes into the reliability f those measurements and others for the last 300 years. The short form is that the really old stuff from the 17oos is still good to within less than a tenth of a degree. Which is more than good enough that the signal is above the noise.

Further there are the proxy records which have been vindicated and replicated and they go back thousands of years. The review of the national academy on the topic is in the links above.

701 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:53:14pm

re: #685 Van Helsing

Assuring the delivery of clean, inexpensive energy would be a great start. Whether GW has an A component or not, having abundant energy available will be the best starting point for dealing with warming (or cooling) for that matter.

Given a choice, I'll take warming over an ice age any time as an easier problem to deal with.

Yeah, in an ice age, re: #685 Van Helsing

Assuring the delivery of clean, inexpensive energy would be a great start. Whether GW has an A component or not, having abundant energy available will be the best starting point for dealing with warming (or cooling) for that matter.

Given a choice, I'll take warming over an ice age any time as an easier problem to deal with.

Right! In an ice age, Atlanta would fill up with northern transplants even moreso than now.
/

702 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:53:47pm

re: #687 Buck

I know... It just hit me on the head. I must go and tell the KING!

I'm sure you think that is clever. Read the science rather than mocking it.

703 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:53:52pm

You guys are harshing my buzz.

704 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:53:59pm

re: #690 SanFranciscoZionist

Am I the only one who, after a few dozen exchanges on one of these AGW threads, starts to wish that the seas would rise, and the ground bake, NOW, just so we could be put out of our misery?

LOL, but stop and think, we are spending about 1.3 trillion per year on 'climate change' (according to Pachauri's institute) set to rise to 2 trillion by 2020. Think how much good that money could do alleviating poverty and disease, instead of trying to keep people in poverty by preventing the third world from joining us with a modern fossil fuel based economy.

We need to know if that money is being wasted or not, and the alarmist basis for them is crumbling before our eyes.

705 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:54:36pm

re: #699 windsagio

The part I have a problem with is the concern-trolling claiming that these scandals, such as they are, are a major blow to AGW in general.

Its understandable that people would be annoyed by that.

if the science is flawed, if the PPP is flawed then AGW is flawed, somewhere, somehow

706 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:54:43pm

re: #703 Racer X

Lol, Just accept that AGW threads are all like this. That's just the way it is ;)

707 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:55:09pm

re: #701 The Sanity Inspector

Right! In an ice age, Atlanta would fill up with northern transplants even moreso than now.

I live in Phoenix...
The damn snowbirds would NEVER leave.

708 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:55:22pm

re: #689 albusteve

you can relax...we are not going to do anything about it...it becomes pointless to keep screeching that we do

Ahh yes, so because of our own greed arrogance and laziness, our children must suffer? Brilliant...

709 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:55:54pm

re: #694 Bagua

The man describes as the worlds greatest Climate Scientist, turns out to be making millions on his alarmism. He also owns a company that profits from increasing the extraction of Oil and has other direct ties to big oil. The hypocrisy is monumental, but because he is one side, he gets a pass.

In the other AGW thread, I was discussing this head of the IPCC and the article detailing his billions of dollars business connections and his questionable credentials.

This is the HEAD of the UN's IPCC, the go to people for the entire AGW world.

And here is what Ludwig said about Dr. Pachauri...

re: #333 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, so since I never heard of him before, and since he is not worth discussing as a scientist, what does this have to do with anything? As I keep saying, and it seems to fall on deaf ears... what does this have to do with the realities of AGW?

710 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:55:58pm

re: #705 albusteve

but, read the links that Ludwig keeps putting up. They're pretty convincing.

The thing is people don't want to believe in it, but know that on LGF its not really acceptable to be anti-AGW. Thus, you get this crap in EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD. on the subject.

711 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:56:22pm

re: #700 LudwigVanQuixote

So lets say 300 years of data just for arguments sake. How old is the earth?

712 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:57:01pm

re: #711 NJDhockeyfan

so you're saying the research is wrong? C'mon now.

713 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:57:06pm

re: #702 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm sure you think that is clever. Read the science rather than mocking it.

here's a shot of reality....we are not moving to thwart AGW because there is no will power....chew on that...the science is neither here nor there...why get all excited?

714 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:57:56pm

We are not spending trillions on AGW. There is no alarmist basis. Look at the above links in the context of the science. There are no lies. The predictions are accurate and the future is very grim.

PLease notice that the ones here who use slurs and lies like alarmist or saying that the science is faulty have no science of their own to bring. They do not have a single fact or paper or bit of data to support their lies.

The ones who are telling you how bad it is give you libraries of papers full of evidence.

715 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:58:35pm

re: #708 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahh yes, so because of our own greed arrogance and laziness, our children must suffer? Brilliant...

looks like it doesn't it?....I willing to buy twisty light bulbs to do my part...actually I take that back, stupid idea

716 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:58:44pm

re: #711 NJDhockeyfan

So lets say 300 years of data just for arguments sake. How old is the earth?

Umm so care to look at the hundreds of thousands of years worth of proxy data or the geological record? That stuff is in the links.

717 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:59:04pm

re: #715 albusteve

looks like it doesn't it?...I willing to buy twisty light bulbs to do my part...actually I take that back, stupid idea

Do you really think that is funny?

718 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:59:09pm

re: #648 LudwigVanQuixote

OK so then let's look at this scientifically, because this cuts to the core of what detractors of AGW and not just me say.

First off, it is very well established that CO2 is a GHG and that we have drastically increased CO2 concentrations in the last century. One look at the Keeling Curves will show this.

[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]
[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]
[Link: www.pnas.org...]

If you accept the basic QM of CO2 then you accept that it traps and re radiates IR and if you couple that with the IR output of the sun, then you must conclude, inescapably that we must warm. Indeed we have seen this dramatically.

So what are the consequences of that and the feedbacks?

OK we are looking at sea level rises on the order of a meter or more by the end of this century or by the middle of the next century at the latest.

I will post some papers to back up these assertions BTW.

We are looking at a dramatic shift in growing patterns and a dramatic loss of fresh water for those who rely on rain or snow melts for their water.

We are looking at ocean anoxia (this has more to do with CO2 getting dissolved into the oceans and killing photosynthesizes than it's interaction with IR) which will remove the oceans as a food source and remove the algae and phyto plankton that scrub excess CO2 from eh atmosphere.

Further, contagion will spread because as climates and habitats change, disease vectors switch to new places where already hungry and homeless people will be massed together and not have immunities.

So in short, we are looking at drastic loss of coastline:

[Link: www.pnas.org...]

a drastic reduction in food production because crops don't like to be cooked or do without rain.

[Link: www.agcarbonmarkets.com...]

and a spread of disease vectors

in a trend that is accelerating:

[Link: www.pnas.org...]

[Link: www.pnas.org...]

[Link: www.gfdl.noaa.gov...]

So quite clearly, we are looking at billions of possible deaths. People die if they do not have food water and shelter and then get sick or fight wars for dwindling resources.

Thanks for the response and I will look at your links (but haven't yet). This issue gets testy, but part of the scientific process is open discussion.

I will take issue with one comment though. The oceans are a big CO2 sink, and they actually release CO2 as they warm. One of the issues for AGW is that as oceans warm they will release more CO2, thus resulting in a feedback loop. You note a concern with more CO2 being dissolved in the oceans, leading to anoxic conditions and, in effect, catastrophic fish kills. That seems somewhat contradictory.

719 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:59:35pm

re: #713 albusteve

here's a shot of reality...we are not moving to thwart AGW because there is no will power...chew on that...the science is neither here nor there...why get all excited?

Ummm that whole collapse of our civilization and billions die thing is the issue.

720 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:59:36pm

re: #713 albusteve

we are moving tho', just slowly.

More slowly because of this kind of crap.

re: #715 albusteve

sounds like you're not willing to change, don't project tho :P

721 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:59:43pm

re: #693 keloyd

Google up the Isaac Asimov essay, The Relativity Of Wrong. Shorter: We used to think that the world was flat. Then we thought it was round. Now we think it is an oblate spheroid, slightly pear-shaped. But thinking that it was round wasn't as wrong as thinking it was flat. So too does the picture flesh out in other sciences, as they march along.

722 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 7:59:48pm

re: #714 LudwigVanQuixote

We are not spending trillions on AGW. There is no alarmist basis. Look at the above links in the context of the science. There are no lies. The predictions are accurate and the future is very grim.

PLease notice that the ones here who use slurs and lies like alarmist or saying that the science is faulty have no science of their own to bring. They do not have a single fact or paper or bit of data to support their lies.

The ones who are telling you how bad it is give you libraries of papers full of evidence.

I have not once said the science is faulty... but the High Priest of the science, Dr. Pachauri, is not even a scientist and he has questionable connections right and left.

Dr. Pachauri, you know, the head of the IPCC, the guy you said you have never even heard of?

723 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:00:06pm

re: #704 Bagua

LOL, but stop and think, we are spending about 1.3 trillion per year on 'climate change' (according to Pachauri's institute) set to rise to 2 trillion by 2020. Think how much good that money could do alleviating poverty and disease, instead of trying to keep people in poverty by preventing the third world from joining us with a modern fossil fuel based economy.

We need to know if that money is being wasted or not, and the alarmist basis for them is crumbling before our eyes.

LOL nothing. I see no communication happening here, and way too much bitterness and hysteria.

As for 'trying to keep people in poverty', the fossil fuel industry doesn't have the world's best record there. This is NOT a fight between those who want to help poor people and those who don't, whatever else it may be. Please don't pretend that all the money tied up in climate change this or that would be freed up to give people clean water and a brighter future if only the 'alarmists' went away.

724 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:00:07pm

re: #716 LudwigVanQuixote

Umm so care to look at the hundreds of thousands of years worth of proxy data or the geological record? That stuff is in the links.

proxy data? is that like an absentee ballot?

725 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:00:33pm

re: #706 windsagio

Lol, Just accept that AGW threads are all like this. That's just the way it is ;)

Sadly.

726 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:00:34pm

re: #718 Unakite

The oceans are a big CO2 sink, and they actually release CO2 as they warm. One of the issues for AGW is that as oceans warm they will release more CO2, thus resulting in a feedback loop. You note a concern with more CO2 being dissolved in the oceans, leading to anoxic conditions and, in effect, catastrophic fish kills. That seems somewhat contradictory.

You have to be careful about that. The oceans can get saturated and they are. That too is in the links.

727 Gus  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:00:35pm

re: #710 windsagio

but, read the links that Ludwig keeps putting up. They're pretty convincing.

The thing is people don't want to believe in it, but know that on LGF its not really acceptable to be anti-AGW. Thus, you get this crap in EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD. on the subject.

I've been lurking for the past 5 hours or more. Keep reading the same denialist spam which looks like it's originating from the High Priest of Denialism Anthony Watts. I think the same link to some British tabloid has been posted at least a half dozen times.

728 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:01:01pm

re: #690 SanFranciscoZionist

Am I the only one who, after a few dozen exchanges on one of these AGW threads, starts to wish that the seas would rise, and the ground bake, NOW, just so we could be put out of our misery?

Bad day, hon?

729 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:01:39pm

re: #710 windsagio

but, read the links that Ludwig keeps putting up. They're pretty convincing.

The thing is people don't want to believe in it, but know that on LGF its not really acceptable to be anti-AGW. Thus, you get this crap in EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD. on the subject.

you are way behind

730 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:01:40pm

re: #703 Racer X

You guys are harshing my buzz.

Let me freshen it up for you...

731 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:02:12pm

re: #706 windsagio

Lol, Just accept that AGW threads are all like this. That's just the way it is ;)

Well if anyone thinks that this issue is going to get solved here in a thread, they think way too much of themselves....

732 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:02:40pm

re: #729 albusteve

well I figure I'll attract the insults and let LVQ focus on the science >>

733 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:02:44pm

There is no reliable thermometer record preceding the 1850's, and even then the technology was crude, and only deployed in a few regions. It is highly questionable if we can achieve an accurate global temperature even with current technology because the climate/weather is so variable and chaotic.

It is downright foolish to allege that a few trees in one peninsular in Siberia or other equally localized historical proxies can give us an accurate global temperature, even less that is would be accurate to the resolution of 1 tenth of a degree.

This was proven when the tree ring proxy showed a decline after 1960, falsifying the three ring proxy, but did the scientists accept this finding? No, they conspired to "hide the decline" in the tree ring proxy by simply cutting off the record when it started to diverge.

The real finding, was that the proxy becomes ineffective after a certain temperature rise when the warmth is no longer a driver in tree rings. This is likely true in the various factors which influence tree growth; water, sunlight, CO2, and temperature. After a certain maximum, higher amounts have little effect on the tree growth as it has reached its optimal effect. T

734 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:03:04pm

re: #731 Buck

its human nature to want to fight (depending on the person) lies or ignorance.

735 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:03:05pm

re: #717 LudwigVanQuixote

Do you really think that is funny?

do you?
do you?
rock on Lud, it aint gonna happen, no matter how much you want it to

736 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:03:09pm

re: #722 Walter L. Newton

I have not once said the science is faulty... but the High Priest of the science, Dr. Pachauri, is not even a scientist and he has questionable connections right and left.

Dr. Pachauri, you know, the head of the IPCC, the guy you said you have never even heard of?

Walter way to take stuff out of context.. Care to show what I wrote in full. Now one of the reasons I get so very very angry at you is that you like to try to "debate science" without debating or bringing any science at all. Rather you like to try to discredit me. Now instead you could be a grown up and read all those papers. You claim to read papers all the time, so why not read the actual science papers?

I have only begged you to do that about 20 times this very day, and I don't know how many total. It got old ages ago. You are irrelevant to a science discussion if you can not talk science.

737 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:03:17pm

re: #728 marjoriemoon

Bad day, hon?

I'm having fiscal and logistical problems, and now an AGW thread.

Luckily, soon I will have French fries.

738 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:03:52pm

re: #737 SanFranciscoZionist

heh theres a boring javasript thread if you want >>

739 jaunte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:04:01pm

Ok, here's one thing to do tomorrow, from the EPA:

Actions You Can Take at Home
1. Change 5 lights
Change a light, and you help change the world. Replace the conventional bulbs in your 5 most frequently used light fixtures with bulbs that have the ENERGY STAR and you will help the environment while saving money on energy bills. If every household in the U.S. took this one simple action we would prevent greenhouse gases equivalent to the emissions from nearly 10 million cars.[Link: www.epa.gov...]
740 mich-again  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:04:08pm
“Why don’t TV weathermen believe in climate change?”

Because the anchorman and sportscaster raz him about "global warming" every time its cold outside.

741 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:04:15pm

Even those who are fully engorged with the global warming hysteria cannot stop wasting energy and using fossil fuels.

Look at Hopenhagen. Nancy Pelosi and pals flew several planes full of people to Copenhagen, and they accomplished exactly diddly squat. What a waste. Of time, energy, and resources. It is "do as I say, not as I do". Again.

Get serious, and put your money where your mouth is, and I will believe you. Keep playing games, and politics, and I will continue to believe that AGW is not as serious a threat as some say.

But I'm just a stupid peon. What do I know.

742 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:04:47pm

re: #737 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm having fiscal and logistical problems, and now an AGW thread.

Luckily, soon I will have French fries.

careful... what you put on those fries could start a civil war.

743 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:05:35pm

re: #738 windsagio

heh theres a boring javasript thread if you want >>

I barely even know what javascript is!

744 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:05:36pm

re: #741 Racer X

- for 'the global warming hysteria'.

To actually answer, we do what we can. We all try to take little steps. The absolutism you're describing is unreasonable.

745 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:05:44pm

re: #709 Walter L. Newton

Yes, risible. Who doesn't know who Dr Pachauri the head of the IPCC and TERI is? He is the 'face' of AGW and won the Nobel Prize with Al Gore.

That he is now discovered to be making untold millions as a direct result of his recommendations as IPCC chair is a huge scandal that is taking India by storm. That he also profited from recommendations he knew to be false may go beyond conflict of interest and land him in prison.

746 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:06:21pm

re: #741 Racer X

Even those who are fully engorged with the global warming hysteria cannot stop wasting energy and using fossil fuels.

Look at Hopenhagen. Nancy Pelosi and pals flew several planes full of people to Copenhagen, and they accomplished exactly diddly squat. What a waste. Of time, energy, and resources. It is "do as I say, not as I do". Again.

Get serious, and put your money where your mouth is, and I will believe you. Keep playing games, and politics, and I will continue to believe that AGW is not as serious a threat as some say.

But I'm just a stupid peon. What do I know.

well done.

747 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:06:22pm

re: #738 windsagio

heh theres a boring javasript thread if you want >>

Who are you to decide what articles posted here are boring? You're boring! Just keep yer big YAPPER shut.

heh. Just being weird.

Love ya, windsagio. Even if you have a short wick. Sheesh! Who knew!

748 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:06:36pm

re: #739 jaunte

Ok, here's one thing to do tomorrow, from the EPA:

Small potatoes. I'm 4/5ths finished re-roofing with Energy Star Shingles. Another week and I'll have more energy for LGF.

749 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:07:27pm

re: #742 brookly red

careful... what you put on those fries could start a civil war.

Calling them "French" calls your dedication into question.

750 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:07:28pm

re: #660 LudwigVanQuixote

No you might see why that is so very frustrating. If we don't do something about it, the science clearly shows that we are looking at a global catastrophe that our current civilization will not survive.

LVQ, I have not weighed in much on AGW (one way or the other), and have not had a chance to discuss with you in this forum. However, and with scientific respect, the problem I have is not the warming aspect, but the over-the-top doomsday predictions. I don't see the global catastrophe, and I have confidence that our civilization will survive. It has survived a hell of a lot worse.

751 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:07:48pm

re: #734 windsagio

its human nature to want to fight (depending on the person) lies or ignorance.

It is human folly to think that only you know the truth and knowledge.


Even if you were able to convince every lizard here, it would not change the world one bit.

AND if you were wrong, and were in fact not fighting lies, but spreading them....

So either way you have expended the energy with zero real return.

752 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:07:49pm

re: #745 Bagua

Yes, risible. Who doesn't know who Dr Pachauri the head of the IPCC and TERI is? He is the 'face' of AGW and won the Nobel Prize with Al Gore.

That he is now discovered to be making untold millions as a direct result of his recommendations as IPCC chair is a huge scandal that is taking India by storm. That he also profited from recommendations he knew to be false may go beyond conflict of interest and land him in prison.

shit, prison? hmmmm...

753 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:07:58pm

re: #736 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter way to take stuff out of context.. Care to show what I wrote in full. Now one of the reasons I get so very very angry at you is that you like to try to "debate science" without debating or bringing any science at all. Rather you like to try to discredit me. Now instead you could be a grown up and read all those papers. You claim to read papers all the time, so why not read the actual science papers?

I have only begged you to do that about 20 times this very day, and I don't know how many total. It got old ages ago. You are irrelevant to a science discussion if you can not talk science.

the science doesn't matter if nobody believes it...and if it's true, not enough people care....the profiteers want to line their pockets not save humanity....the whole thing is a mess and it didn't start with deniers

754 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:08:10pm

re: #741 Racer X

re: #746 brookly red

Are you 2 seriously arguing that we shouldn't do whatever we can to reduce our impact?

755 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:08:21pm

Again, any talk about political appointees to UN commissions is nothing more than a pathetic denialist side show put on by those who refuse to talk about actual science.

Actual science involves things like math and data. All you are hearing from the other side are slurs and nonsense with nothing scientific to back itself up with. They can not bring one bit of evidence to counter the science. Instead they have to resort to smears and lies and blanket statements with no data to support themselves.

756 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:08:44pm

re: #751 Buck

So you're saying that the 'AGW exists' position is wrong?

757 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:08:58pm

re: #741 Racer X

Even those who are fully engorged with the global warming hysteria cannot stop wasting energy and using fossil fuels.

Look at Hopenhagen. Nancy Pelosi and pals flew several planes full of people to Copenhagen, and they accomplished exactly diddly squat. What a waste. Of time, energy, and resources. It is "do as I say, not as I do". Again.

Get serious, and put your money where your mouth is, and I will believe you. Keep playing games, and politics, and I will continue to believe that AGW is not as serious a threat as some say.

But I'm just a stupid peon. What do I know.

Good points, and remember when Pachauri came out saying we had to stop our lifestyles of high consumption and stop eating meat? Funny that it turns out Pachauri lives in a Mansion on the most wealthy street in India, Golf Links Lane.

The hypocrisy is staggering, especially is a desperately poor country like India which Pachauri and his kind are pressuring to slow down their advancement because it increases their carbon emissions. He want his own people to remain in poverty while he lives like a King.

758 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:09:28pm

re: #745 Bagua

Yes, risible. Who doesn't know who Dr Pachauri the head of the IPCC and TERI is? He is the 'face' of AGW and won the Nobel Prize with Al Gore.

That he is now discovered to be making untold millions as a direct result of his recommendations as IPCC chair is a huge scandal that is taking India by storm. That he also profited from recommendations he knew to be false may go beyond conflict of interest and land him in prison.

I never heard of the man. Never heard him mentioned on this forum before this scandal came up, either.

Now Al Gore's name, I've heard that one a LOT on this forum, usually coupled with complaints about his carbon footprint.

759 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:09:47pm

re: #744 windsagio

I've got just about all of my light bulbs changed over to CFL now. I'm doing my part. Looking to install solar panels on the roof in the next year or two. I'm going to be an energy producer and feed back electricity into the grid. Greedy capitalist bastard that I am.

760 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:09:52pm

re: #736 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter way to take stuff out of context.. Care to show what I wrote in full.

Sure...

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

re: #333 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #339 Walter L. Newton

re: #351 LudwigVanQuixote

Notice how many time Ludwig admits to not even knowing or remembering Dr. Pachauri the head of the IPCC.

761 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:10:06pm

re: #749 Decatur Deb

Calling them "French" calls your dedication into question.

that long, crusty loaf of bread you have... can you explain that?

(don't do it Mandy)

762 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:10:46pm

re: #716 LudwigVanQuixote

Umm so care to look at the hundreds of thousands of years worth of proxy data or the geological record? That stuff is in the links.

Do those links you provided include thousands of years of proxy data ?

763 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:10:49pm

re: #745 Bagua

Yes, risible. Who doesn't know who Dr Pachauri the head of the IPCC and TERI is? He is the 'face' of AGW and won the Nobel Prize with Al Gore.

That he is now discovered to be making untold millions as a direct result of his recommendations as IPCC chair is a huge scandal that is taking India by storm. That he also profited from recommendations he knew to be false may go beyond conflict of interest and land him in prison.

Ludwig didn't...

re: #351 LudwigVanQuixote

Believe it or don't Walter, I didn't recognize his name...

764 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:11:10pm

re: #737 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm having fiscal and logistical problems, and now an AGW thread.

Luckily, soon I will have French fries.

Ooo french fries. We had Thai.

I don't want to derail a good fight, but Happy Tu Bishvat, btw! The New Year for the Trees! Like branches of the tree, we are all connected :)

765 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:11:21pm

re: #754 windsagio

re: #746 brookly red

Are you 2 seriously arguing that we shouldn't do whatever we can to reduce our impact?

neither one said such a thing....you are drawing conclusions for your own sake....judge the merit of the posts themselves

766 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:11:30pm

re: #761 brookly red

that long, crusty loaf of bread you have... can you explain that?

(don't do it Mandy)

My Freedom Footlong?

767 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:11:58pm

re: #760 Walter L. Newton

Sure...

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

re: #333 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #339 Walter L. Newton

re: #351 LudwigVanQuixote

Notice how many time Ludwig admits to not even knowing or remembering Dr. Pachauri the head of the IPCC.

I'm sure this proves something.

768 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:12:07pm

re: #756 windsagio

So you're saying that the 'AGW exists' position is wrong?

It might be, but no I am not saying that right now.

I am saying that IF you can accept that "AGW threads are all like this", and that it will not, and cannot change (because this is a thread on Little Green Footballs) anything anyway. Then no matter what side you are on, it is folly.

769 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:12:13pm

re: #758 SanFranciscoZionist

I never heard of the man. Never heard him mentioned on this forum before this scandal came up, either.

Now Al Gore's name, I've heard that one a LOT on this forum, usually coupled with complaints about his carbon footprint.

Do a LGF search... he's come up here numerous times. One would think that someone like Ludwig, who is an expert in climate science would know who the head of the UN's IPCC is.

770 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:12:26pm

OK, steve will be glad, I'm out.

I just can't handle the crap you guys are shoveling on here.


Keep the stealth-denial up all you want.


/lol I guess SFZ was right, just my tolerance was a bit higher than hers >>

771 mich-again  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:12:28pm

The public schools should switch to four-day weeks with longer school days. It would save 20% on all the transportation costs. Imagine all those school buses taking a day off each week.

772 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:12:29pm

re: #715 albusteve

looks like it doesn't it?...I willing to buy twisty light bulbs to do my part...actually I take that back, stupid idea

You mean you don't want to inhale a lung full of mercury whenever one of those puppies bursts?

773 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:12:37pm

*checks wick*

I think I'm better than OK.

774 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:13:09pm

re: #755 LudwigVanQuixote

Again, any talk about political appointees to UN commissions is nothing more than a pathetic denialist side show put on by those who refuse to talk about actual science.

Actual science involves things like math and data. All you are hearing from the other side are slurs and nonsense with nothing scientific to back itself up with. They can not bring one bit of evidence to counter the science. Instead they have to resort to smears and lies and blanket statements with no data to support themselves.

How do you know, you didn't even know his name, and now you have all this opinion about him.

You mean he is no non-player in AGW?

775 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:13:17pm

re: #764 marjoriemoon

Ooo french fries. We had Thai.

I don't want to derail a good fight, but Happy Tu Bishvat, btw! The New Year for the Trees! Like branches of the tree, we are all connected :)

And Chinese New Year coming right up. Year of the Tiger this time I believe. On Valentine's Day!

776 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:13:17pm

re: #754 windsagio

re: #746 brookly red

Are you 2 seriously arguing that we shouldn't do whatever we can to reduce our impact?

I live in a small apartment, take public transportation & pretty much live like a monk... reduce your own "impact" and call me later.

777 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:13:18pm

re: #750 Unakite

LVQ, I have not weighed in much on AGW (one way or the other), and have not had a chance to discuss with you in this forum. However, and with scientific respect, the problem I have is not the warming aspect, but the over-the-top doomsday predictions. I don't see the global catastrophe, and I have confidence that our civilization will survive. It has survived a hell of a lot worse.

It is not over the top.

Look at the papers look into the data and look into the models.

Just look at the soil predictions for the US alone from Princeton GPFDL. We are talking about a 50-70% reduction in soil moisture across the American farm belt.

What happens to the US when we have 50-75% less food from that alone? If you couple it with the fact that many of our crops really really don't like being hotter, then I have seen predictions with as much as 90% of our food supply wiped out.

What about the effects of losing cities? A meter rise, which is low ball and the high end predictions are as much as two meters by the end of this century will wipe out our major eastern and west coast cities. That puts almost half of our population almost without a home.

What about the Southwest which will no longer have fresh water and the spread of contagion?

If you are not seriously concerned, you have not looked deeply into this. respectfully, this is not over the top. This is what is coming down the pike.

778 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:13:38pm

re: #757 Bagua

we had to stop our lifestyles of high consumption and stop eating meat

Didn't BHO say something similar?

779 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:13:42pm

re: #758 SanFranciscoZionist

I never heard of the man. Never heard him mentioned on this forum before this scandal came up, either.

Now Al Gore's name, I've heard that one a LOT on this forum, usually coupled with complaints about his carbon footprint.

I believe you if you say so. But is it really possible someone fascinated with the IPCC wouldn't know who the chairman was? The man who accepted the Nobel prize with Al Gore? The key note speaker at Copenhagen 15 and most every major AGW event?

Dr Rajendra K. Pachauri

Here accepting the Nobel Prize with Al Gore

780 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:13:42pm

re: #759 Racer X

I've got just about all of my light bulbs changed over to CFL now. I'm doing my part. Looking to install solar panels on the roof in the next year or two. I'm going to be an energy producer and feed back electricity into the grid. Greedy capitalist bastard that I am.

Have you checked prices and would you mind sharing that info?

Even with all the fed and state tax credits and the utility company bribes it still works out to about $2.50/W installed. And that works out to about 14 years to recover the initial cost assuming zero operating expenses/maintenance.

Also assumes about 2.5% per year increase in electricity costs.

781 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:14:01pm

re: #767 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sure this proves something.

Did you read any of the four links I put up. If you didn't, then you wouldn't know what this proves or even what I am talking about.

782 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:14:01pm

re: #743 SanFranciscoZionist

I barely even know what javascript is!

That's why your still here! :)

783 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:14:13pm

re: #772 The Sanity Inspector

You mean you don't want to inhale a lung full of mercury whenever one of those puppies bursts?

I haven't had one go yet, neither has anyone I know. Are they prone to bursting?

784 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:14:59pm

re: #775 Silvergirl

And Chinese New Year coming right up. Year of the Tiger this time I believe. On Valentine's Day!

My g/f adopted two girls from China. They do it up pretty big.

785 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:15:17pm

re: #760 Walter L. Newton

Sure...

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

re: #333 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #339 Walter L. Newton

re: #351 LudwigVanQuixote

Notice how many time Ludwig admits to not even knowing or remembering Dr. Pachauri the head of the IPCC.

Walter yes and what did I wrote... I wrote that I read science papers and talk to other scientists. You are correct, I forgot who a political appointee was... Wowo... you got me now... every bit of math and data I bring must be off too because I forgot a political appointee's name. Brilliant.

Now care to talk science or will you continue this useless masturbation?

786 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:15:52pm

re: #781 Walter L. Newton

Did you read any of the four links I put up. If you didn't, then you wouldn't know what this proves or even what I am talking about.

That's OK, Walter doesn't know what he is talking about either....

787 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:16:14pm

re: #780 Van Helsing

Have you checked prices and would you mind sharing that info?

Even with all the fed and state tax credits and the utility company bribes it still works out to about $2.50/W installed. And that works out to about 14 years to recover the initial cost assuming zero operating expenses/maintenance.

Also assumes about 2.5% per year increase in electricity costs.

Now the thread gets useful, and I'm fading here in CST. Love to hear more on this.

788 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:17:06pm

re: #776 brookly red

I live in a small apartment, take public transportation & pretty much live like a monk... reduce your own "impact" and call me later.

oh yeah, I gave up meat 15 years ago...

789 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:17:09pm

re: #737 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm having fiscal and logistical problems, and now an AGW thread.

Luckily, soon I will have French fries.

I got my W-2 today so my financial problems will lessen for a time (commission sales means big refunds).

790 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:18:03pm

re: #784 marjoriemoon

My g/f adopted two girls from China. They do it up pretty big.

I've had some good fun with it before. parade, touring Chinese temple, food, new pennies in little red envelopes.

791 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:18:11pm

LOL!
Significant dialog taking place!
It's like a tennis match.
Whack! Turn left.
Whack! Turn right!
Whack! Turn left!
Continue until point taken!

792 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:18:27pm

Here speaking at COP15 where he gave the Key Note address.

I can understand if SFZ wouldn't recognize him as she may not follow the IPCC and AGW politics, but anyone who does could not avoid knowing who he
is. COP15 Pachauri at the head table with the hosts

793 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:18:28pm

Again notice that the detractors have yet to bring any science... They are grousing about an MSM scandal about a political appointee - as if that were equivalent to the facts or the data. Pathetic really.

794 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:19:43pm

re: #776 brookly red

I live in a small apartment, take public transportation & pretty much live like a monk... reduce your own "impact" and call me later.

crickets....

795 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:19:51pm

The BEST PART of the whole AGW debate?

IF the temp were to stabilize, and return back to the average... the AGW group gets to say "See we were right, we saved the world!"

Gore gets to be right no matter what actually happens next.

796 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:19:59pm

re: #786 LudwigVanQuixote

That's OK, Walter doesn't know what he is talking about either...

Friend, you know how I feel about that line. I came in late to this thread and when I was on LGF this morning this issue was being talked about. Can you tell me what I should be looking for in this latest IPCC skirmish?

797 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:20:02pm

re: #780 Van Helsing

Have you checked prices and would you mind sharing that info?

Even with all the fed and state tax credits and the utility company bribes it still works out to about $2.50/W installed. And that works out to about 14 years to recover the initial cost assuming zero operating expenses/maintenance.

Also assumes about 2.5% per year increase in electricity costs.

A friend of mine is getting hooked up in the next week or two. I'll get more details and follow up here. He says he is paying about $30 grand - including a grant from the state. Says it will be in the black in about 10 years.

798 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:20:11pm

re: #785 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter yes and what did I wrote... I wrote that I read science papers and talk to other scientists. You are correct, I forgot who a political appointee was... Wowo... you got me now... every bit of math and data I bring must be off too because I forgot a political appointee's name. Brilliant.

Now care to talk science or will you continue this useless masturbation?

nobody cares about the science...unless it is the science of money...I think science is being marginalized for one reason or another and it pisses you off...too bad....appparently the human race will deal with CC incrementally, as the weather itself changes....that's the reality of it....freaking out about science gets nothing accomplished, it's not my problem you guys aren't as important as you ought to be or think you are

799 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:20:15pm

re: #785 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter yes and what did I wrote... I wrote that I read science papers and talk to other scientists. You are correct, I forgot who a political appointee was... Wowo... you got me now... every bit of math and data I bring must be off too because I forgot a political appointee's name. Brilliant.

Now care to talk science or will you continue this useless masturbation?

You are a linker, not a thinker.

800 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:20:37pm

re: #794 brookly red

crickets...

I'll give you some applause. Take a bow, brookly.

801 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:20:59pm

re: #793 LudwigVanQuixote

Can you explain proxy data in layman's terms?

802 jaunte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:21:27pm

re: #788 brookly red

Four Yorkshiremen sketch?

803 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:21:38pm

re: #800 Silvergirl

I'll give you some applause. Take a bow, brookly.

Thanks, but I am an American... I don't bow.

804 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:21:42pm

The scandal is the 'science' at this point, with Pachauri being called upon to resign on good cause, Prof. Phil Jones sidelined and being investigated by his own university as is M. Mann, Dr. Hasnain, and others. That is pretty much the whole alarmist 'Hockey Team'.

What remains is indeed the real science, which is not especially alarming without the hype.

805 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:21:47pm

For anyone that ever thought they'd built some pretty good model cars as a kid, think again. These are all model car and scratch built backgrounds, amazing stuff.

Models.

806 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:21:57pm

re: #795 Buck

The BEST PART of the whole AGW debate?

IF the temp were to stabilize, and return back to the average... the AGW group gets to say "See we were right, we saved the world!"

Gore gets to be right no matter what actually happens next.

What if it gets colder? Do Al Gore & company get blamed for overdoing it?

807 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:22:13pm

re: #795 Buck

The BEST PART of the whole AGW debate?

IF the temp were to stabilize, and return back to the average... the AGW group gets to say "See we were right, we saved the world!"

Gore gets to be right no matter what actually happens next.

There is NO WAY to turn back the tide on AGW. I see no way. We can lesson the speed at which we head over the cliff, but thats about it.

808 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:22:17pm

re: #793 LudwigVanQuixote

Again notice that the detractors have yet to bring any science... They are grousing about an MSM scandal about a political appointee - as if that were equivalent to the facts or the data. Pathetic really.

Part it is that the UN is such a loathsome institution from an American perspective. It's rotten to the core and this latest scandal just provides further proof.

In my eyes, the great danger is that the science behind AGW studies will get tarred with the same brush as a corrupt UN bureaucrat.

809 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:22:21pm

re: #796 Dark_Falcon

Friend, you know how I feel about that line. I came in late to this thread and when I was on LGF this morning this issue was being talked about. Can you tell me what I should be looking for in this latest IPCC skirmish?

You are asking that of the one who claims to not even know who Dr. Pachauri is?

810 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:22:31pm

re: #804 Bagua

The scandal is the 'science' at this point, with Pachauri being called upon to resign on good cause, Prof. Phil Jones sidelined and being investigated by his own university as is M. Mann, Dr. Hasnain, and others. That is pretty much the whole alarmist 'Hockey Team'.

What remains is indeed the real science, which is not especially alarming without the hype.

And the hype, thankfully, is going down in flames.

811 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:22:52pm

re: #803 brookly red

Thanks, but I am an American... I don't bow.

curtsy?

812 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:22:56pm

re: #802 jaunte

Four Yorkshiremen sketch?

huh?

813 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:23:10pm

re: #714 LudwigVanQuixote

We are not spending trillions on AGW. There is no alarmist basis. Look at the above links in the context of the science. There are no lies. The predictions are accurate and the future is very grim.

PLease notice that the ones here who use slurs and lies like alarmist or saying that the science is faulty have no science of their own to bring. They do not have a single fact or paper or bit of data to support their lies.

The ones who are telling you how bad it is give you libraries of papers full of evidence.

Uh, now I'm starting to have a little problem. I'll ignore "there are no lies." I have a huge problem with the definitive statement that "the predictions are accurate." They're predictions....

814 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:23:12pm

The assertion that there were no reliable thermometers before 1850 is a flat out lie. Once again, a blanket statement with no evidence to support it from an anti-science crank.

[Link: www.nap.edu...]

[Link: www.pnas.org...]

Read the science. Ignore the lies.

815 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:23:23pm

re: #799 Walter L. Newton

You are a linker, not a thinker.

. . . and a midnight stinker.

(apologies to Steve Miller)

816 jaunte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:23:26pm

re: #812 brookly red

huh?

[Link: www.davidpbrown.co.uk...]

817 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:23:29pm

Is it really such a shock that another UN body is found to be corrupt and deceptive? What has the UN ever done that didn't involve massive corruption?

818 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:24:11pm

re: #802 jaunte

Four Yorkshiremen sketch?

Post a link. Funny stuff.

819 Gus  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:24:14pm

re: #792 Bagua

Here speaking at COP15 where he gave the Key Note address.

I can understand if SFZ wouldn't recognize him as she may not follow the IPCC and AGW politics, but anyone who does could not avoid knowing who he
is. COP15 Pachauri at the head table with the hosts

That first link isn't of Pachuair speaking at COP 15. That's at the UN. You can tell right away by the podium:

Intergovernmental panel on climate change chairman Rajendra Pachauri addresses a speech during a the Summit on Climate Change at the United Nations in New York on September 22, 2009. From Getty Images.

Looks like the photo is linked to some wingnut site that also links to Christian Action Network.

820 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:24:29pm

re: #794 brookly red

crickets...

Monk is normal where I come from. (But so is corned beef.)

821 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:24:29pm

re: #796 Dark_Falcon

Friend, you know how I feel about that line. I came in late to this thread and when I was on LGF this morning this issue was being talked about. Can you tell me what I should be looking for in this latest IPCC skirmish?

Nothing there.. It's a side show. Walter wants to cast doubt on AGW by bringing up aspersions over the IPCC appointee. As usual, he has no actual science to talk about. If he has a point, he has yet to make one.

822 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:24:32pm

re: #816 jaunte

[Link: www.davidpbrown.co.uk...]

You beat me.

823 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:24:47pm

re: #805 avanti

For anyone that ever thought they'd built some pretty good model cars as a kid, think again. These are all model car and scratch built backgrounds, amazing stuff.

Models.

Great stuff. I favorited your post, since my dad would love those photos. He was a teenager back in the 50's.

824 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:24:54pm

re: #805 avanti

For anyone that ever thought they'd built some pretty good model cars as a kid, think again. These are all model car and scratch built backgrounds, amazing stuff.

Models.

Dude!

Those are freaking awesome!

825 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:24:59pm

re: #819 Gus 802

Looks like the photo is linked to some wingnut site that also links to Christian Action Network.

LOL and what do you expect from deniers....

826 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:25:14pm

re: #797 Racer X

Waiting for it.

827 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:25:38pm

re: #817 Bagua

Is it really such a shock that another UN body is found to be corrupt and deceptive? What has the UN ever done that didn't involve massive corruption?

not at all to me...why anyone would trust anyone connected to the UN is beyond me...history should carry some weight regarding their massive failures and fraud

828 mich-again  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:25:44pm

re: #780 Van Helsing

Even with all the fed and state tax credits and the utility company bribes it still works out to about $2.50/W installed. And that works out to about 14 years to recover the initial cost assuming zero operating expenses/maintenance.

When calculating the payback, don't forget to include the rider for the home insurance policy. There have been some fires from poor installation and the insurance companies are starting to charge more for the risk. That alone could eat up the savings.

829 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:25:45pm

re: #816 jaunte

it is what it is...

830 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:25:53pm

re: #787 Decatur Deb

Now the thread gets useful, and I'm fading here in CST. Love to hear more on this.

That example is from October of 2009 when I was looking into it. I live in Phoenix. It's generally sunny here (wouldn't know that from the last two weeks).

Solar would make sense, BUT the upfront costs are still pretty high, about $30k for 12KW.

I was just wondering if RacerX was looking at the same costs.

There is now a company that will install THEIR cells on YOUR roof and lease them to you at a fraction of the real cost. They however, collect the money from the utility for any surplus sent to the grid and they retain all tax and utility incentives. I haven't had time to look into how much sense that could make.

It can't hurt to cut down energy use or use sources that make sense for one's location.

Solar is next to useless in many parts of the country.

831 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:26:10pm

re: #779 Bagua

I believe you if you say so. But is it really possible someone fascinated with the IPCC wouldn't know who the chairman was? The man who accepted the Nobel prize with Al Gore? The key note speaker at Copenhagen 15 and most every major AGW event?

Dr Rajendra K. Pachauri

Here accepting the Nobel Prize with Al Gore

Honestly? I don't know, and at this moment, I don't much care.

I've seen far too little calm scientific discussion coming on these threads from people who claim to be upset about 'alarmism', and way too much personal sniping and nuttiness. I'm not interested in hearing how you guys don't like each other. We've all noticed.

832 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:26:42pm

Can some please explain proxy data?

833 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:26:44pm

re: #755 LudwigVanQuixote

Again, any talk about political appointees to UN commissions is nothing more than a pathetic denialist side show put on by those who refuse to talk about actual science.

Actual science involves things like math and data. All you are hearing from the other side are slurs and nonsense with nothing scientific to back itself up with. They can not bring one bit of evidence to counter the science. Instead they have to resort to smears and lies and blanket statements with no data to support themselves.

Boy, that's reals objective, impartial, scientific viewpoint.

834 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:26:47pm

re: #821 LudwigVanQuixote

Nothing there.. It's a side show. Walter wants to cast doubt on AGW by bringing up aspersions over the IPCC appointee. As usual, he has no actual science to talk about. If he has a point, he has yet to make one.

nobody cares about the science....you are simply dreaming to think they do

835 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:26:58pm

re: #790 Silvergirl

I've had some good fun with it before. parade, touring Chinese temple, food, new pennies in little red envelopes.

I went with my friend to China in 2000 for her first baby. Her hubby went with her for the second. It was an interesting trip... one I wouldn't really want to repeat, though. Much of that was because we didn't live well together and that can kill any kind of trip.

836 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:27:03pm

Proxy Data - pick a proxy, which just means 'substitute' when the thing you care about is difficult or impossible to measure, but something else is much more available.

An example from the financial world - innovation is hard to quantify. Patents are super easy to count. If you want to measure "innovation" before and after a tax incentive, just count up the patents before and after.

Social sciences example. Does education or IQ help make for better marriages? "Better" is hard to measure. # divorces after 5 years is the proxy variable that is easy to count. Proxies are never perfect, but all the easy questions have been asked. A new question no one has thought of is likely because no one has figured out how to observe and quantify an unobservable variable with no acceptible proxy.

837 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:27:17pm

re: #833 Unakite

Boy, that's reals objective, impartial, scientific viewpoint.

PIMF, real.

838 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:27:19pm

re: #781 Walter L. Newton

Did you read any of the four links I put up. If you didn't, then you wouldn't know what this proves or even what I am talking about.

Walter, I wouldn't click on a link in this thread if I was offered money.

839 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:27:25pm

re: #821 LudwigVanQuixote

Nothing there.. It's a side show. Walter wants to cast doubt on AGW by bringing up aspersions over the IPCC appointee. As usual, he has no actual science to talk about. If he has a point, he has yet to make one.

Well, he has made the case that the UN is a rotten organization that we should avoid whenever possible. Question to you: What non-UN organizations can take the lead on this issue, since the UN is clearly compromised? I know its not a science question, but with AGW the politics are almost as important as the science itself.

840 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:27:37pm

re: #814 LudwigVanQuixote

The assertion that there were no reliable thermometers before 1850 is a flat out lie. Once again, a blanket statement with no evidence to support it from an anti-science crank.

[Link: www.nap.edu...]

[Link: www.pnas.org...]

Read the science. Ignore the lies.

And... as new, updated temperature data was inserted in the 5 degrees by 5 degrees grid for any certain month/year of the Hadcrut3 database, did they...

1) Keep records of what the last temperature was.
2) Keep records of the actual location of where the temperature was recorded.

The 5 degree by 5 degree grids that divided the planet in the Hadcrut3 dataset are about the size of Nevada. It is very important to know the actual location, the source and the time/date of the temperature reading.

Do they have that information for all the grids, for all the months, for all the years from 1850 until 1999?

841 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:27:47pm

re: #805 avanti

He offers models, and all I see are toy cars.

842 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:28:09pm

re: #783 SanFranciscoZionist

I haven't had one go yet, neither has anyone I know. Are they prone to bursting?

They will if you drop them, of course. And, in my old house with old wiring, they don't last any longer than incandescent bulbs. I'll be glad when LED lights get to the point where they are comparable to regular bulbs.

843 Gus  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:28:45pm

re: #825 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL and what do you expect from deniers...

Looks like the new Al Gore is Pachauri. The British tabloids are all over this. They're making a big deal about him having a car and driver. Get this, the car is a late model Toyota Corolla -- not even close to being a luxury car.

That's the new thing it seems. Demonize Pachauri.

844 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:28:54pm

re: #820 Decatur Deb

Monk is normal where I come from. (But so is corned beef.)

I am so God Damned tired of these holier that thou types talking about sacrifice, as if their conscious put food on my table.

845 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:29:07pm

re: #839 Dark_Falcon

Well, he has made the case that the UN is a rotten organization that we should avoid whenever possible. Question to you: What non-UN organizations can take the lead on this issue, since the UN is clearly compromised? I know its not a science question, but with AGW the politics are almost as important as the science itself.

Well, I went ahead and asked a science question in my re: #840 Walter L. Newton... I'll see if Ludwig want to give me a reply... without just dropping in a link.

846 Buck  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:29:10pm

re: #807 Racer X

There is NO WAY to turn back the tide on AGW. I see no way. We can lesson the speed at which we head over the cliff, but thats about it.

You are entitled to your opinion... but if I were you I would still pay my bills...

LOL, and I am glad you are not actually driving.

847 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:29:20pm

there's NO science
like SHOW science....
there's NO science I know!

yeeehahahaha!

848 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:29:37pm

re: #833 Unakite

Boy, that's reals objective, impartial, scientific viewpoint.

Well if the people here on the other side bring any sort of scientific argument, I will be glad to address it. Look, the case has been made and not just by me. The data is out there in tons and is quite manifest. If you are actually a scientist then please read up on it. You will recognize the caliber of papers I brought and be able to follow the references. Don't take my word for it, do the reading yourself. I stand by the findings of the community.

849 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:29:39pm

re: #832 NJDhockeyfan

Can some please explain proxy data?

absentee ballots... some how the lib wins.

850 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:29:50pm

re: #814 LudwigVanQuixote

The assertion that there were no reliable thermometers before 1850 is a flat out lie. Once again, a blanket statement with no evidence to support it from an anti-science crank.

[Link: www.nap.edu...]

[Link: www.pnas.org...]

Read the science. Ignore the lies.

Bold faced lies, those are Temperature reconstructions from proxies such as Tree Rings. The actual measured temperature record starts at about 1850, that is the reason a reconstruction is needed to 'prove' todays temperatures are abnormal.

I'm really beginning to doubt we are dealing with a real scientist here, and not an activist.

Asserting that Trees are equal to thermometers is the underlying deception of the alarmism. There are no thermometer based records prior to around 1850.

851 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:30:00pm

re: #828 mich-again

Thank you. I had not heard that.

852 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:30:16pm

re: #848 LudwigVanQuixote

Well if the people here on the other side bring any sort of scientific argument, I will be glad to address it. Look, the case has been made and not just by me. The data is out there in tons and is quite manifest. If you are actually a scientist then please read up on it. You will recognize the caliber of papers I brought and be able to follow the references. Don't take my word for it, do the reading yourself. I stand by the findings of the community.

See my re: #840 Walter L. Newton... science question.

853 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:30:21pm

re: #832 NJDhockeyfan

Can some please explain proxy data?

Enjoy the model car photos and forget about the proxy data.

You'll live longer and happier.

854 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:30:33pm

re: #836 keloyd

Proxy Data - pick a proxy, which just means 'substitute' when the thing you care about is difficult or impossible to measure, but something else is much more available.

So Ludwig is using proxy data as proof of AGW? Really? And we are supposed to jump on the bandwagon with 'substitute' data?

855 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:30:51pm

re: #830 Van Helsing

That example is from October of 2009 when I was looking into it. I live in Phoenix. It's generally sunny here (wouldn't know that from the last two weeks).

Solar would make sense, BUT the upfront costs are still pretty high, about $30k for 12KW.

I was just wondering if RacerX was looking at the same costs.

There is now a company that will install THEIR cells on YOUR roof and lease them to you at a fraction of the real cost. They however, collect the money from the utility for any surplus sent to the grid and they retain all tax and utility incentives. I haven't had time to look into how much sense that could make.

It can't hurt to cut down energy use or use sources that make sense for one's location.

Solar is next to useless in many parts of the country.

We're in Lower Alabama. We are on the wrong end of the actuarial tables for photovoltaics, but am looking at active solar hot water. We had it in Israel, and had to temper the water with cold.

856 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:31:33pm

re: #839 Dark_Falcon

Well, he has made the case that the UN is a rotten organization that we should avoid whenever possible. Question to you: What non-UN organizations can take the lead on this issue, since the UN is clearly compromised? I know its not a science question, but with AGW the politics are almost as important as the science itself.

Well the UN is only as compromised as the member states make it.

IN terms of policy, I really don't see how any global policy could be reached without the UN in some capacity.

As to the science, well look at the American Physical Society, or the Royal society or any number of prestigious scientific organizations. They all tell the same story.

857 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:31:48pm

re: #850 Bagua

Don't talk to me. Cherem.

858 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:31:56pm

re: #844 brookly red

I am so God Damned tired of these holier that thou types talking about sacrifice, as if their conscious put food on my table.

open your MOUTH!
what's in there comrade?...
where did you get that snail?....ANSWER!

859 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:31:57pm

re: #850 Bagua

I'm really beginning to doubt we are dealing with a real scientist here, and not an activist.

We'll see.. I asked a science question in my re: #840 Walter L. Newton... let's hear the science answer from Ludwig, no links, I want Ludwig to answer the question. I'm looking for a thinker not a linker.

860 Gus  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:32:27pm

re: #831 SanFranciscoZionist

Honestly? I don't know, and at this moment, I don't much care.

I've seen far too little calm scientific discussion coming on these threads from people who claim to be upset about 'alarmism', and way too much personal sniping and nuttiness. I'm not interested in hearing how you guys don't like each other. We've all noticed.

I think the people calling out alarmism on the AGW side must have missed the speech by Nick Griffin of the BNP. Or the call from their side using phrases like "scientific fascism" or "global environmental communism!!!11!!" Or the countless alarmist diatribes from the like of Glenn Beck and Lord Mockton. Or the BS we hear from Alex Jones on the matter.

Right, alarmism.

861 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:32:46pm

re: #819 Gus 802

Looks like the photo is linked to some wingnut site that also links to Christian Action Network.

I didn't check the sites, just searched for images. Are you saying that RK Pachauri is not the chair of the IPCC?

RK Pachauri

RK Pachauri on climatescience.gov

His own website

862 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:32:51pm
863 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:33:12pm

re: #849 brookly red

absentee ballots... some how the lib wins.

Say a word about Franken, and I will scream.

864 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:33:30pm

re: #832 NJDhockeyfan

Can some please explain proxy data?

One thing is used to infer the value of another.

Tree rings can be used to infer temperature, moisture, length of growing season, etc.

The concentration of deuterium in ice cores has been correlated to temperature.

865 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:33:37pm

Again it is a lie to assert that there is not accurate temperature data before 1850. Thermometers were very well in use by the early 1700's and ships kept logs religiously as did tens of thousands of amateur local naturalists, and the scientific societies of Britain, France, America and Germany. The technology of a thermometer is not complicated.

To claim that these measurements do not exist is simply a lie.

866 Gus  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:34:04pm

re: #861 Bagua

I didn't check the sites, just searched for images. Are you saying that RK Pachauri is not the chair of the IPCC?

RK Pachauri

RK Pachauri on climatescience.gov

His own website

I know he's the chair of the IPCC.

867 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:34:20pm

re: #863 SanFranciscoZionist

Say a word about Franken, and I will scream.

How about I just think it?

868 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:34:46pm

re: #844 brookly red

I am so God Damned tired of these holier that thou types talking about sacrifice, as if their conscious put food on my table.

I've been waiting for our AGW threads to get past "is--aint--is too--aint". It would be good to talk reasonable courses of action.

869 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:35:01pm

re: #865 LudwigVanQuixote

Again it is a lie to assert that there is not accurate temperature data before 1850. Thermometers were very well in use by the early 1700's and ships kept logs religiously as did tens of thousands of amateur local naturalists, and the scientific societies of Britain, France, America and Germany. The technology of a thermometer is not complicated.

To claim that these measurements do not exist is simply a lie.

so what?...who cares?

870 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:35:10pm

Go Solar California

Good info here.

871 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:35:26pm

re: #865 LudwigVanQuixote

Again it is a lie to assert that there is not accurate temperature data before 1850. Thermometers were very well in use by the early 1700's and ships kept logs religiously as did tens of thousands of amateur local naturalists, and the scientific societies of Britain, France, America and Germany. The technology of a thermometer is not complicated.

To claim that these measurements do not exist is simply a lie.

I know they exist, some how, in some form, they got some sort of temperature reading, but I want to know something about the data, and you have not yet answered me. This is a science question professor, right up you alley.

And... as new, updated temperature data was inserted in the 5 degrees by 5 degrees grid for any certain month/year of the Hadcrut3 database, did they...

1) Keep records of what the last temperature was.
2) Keep records of the actual location of where the temperature was recorded.

The 5 degree by 5 degree grids that divided the planet in the Hadcrut3 dataset are about the size of Nevada. It is very important to know the actual location, the source and the time/date of the temperature reading.

Do they have that information for all the grids, for all the months, for all the years from 1850 until 1999?

872 swamprat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:35:39pm

1. The basic premise that CO2 raises temps is scientifically sound.

2.Some of the claims extrapolated by AGW proponents are so ludicrous as to make one wonder if they aren't being put forth to discredit AGW.

3.The warming trend postulated is VERY long term. As humans we have difficulty conceiving that just because we have 3 years of cold weather, or the lake freezes in Pavement Ends, Texas, we can still be in the middle of a long term warming trend.

4.Because of the multitude of axes being ground, we have little change of getting the straight story from either side.

873 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:35:42pm

re: #850 Bagua

Now, now, no need to go hatin' on his creds.

874 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:36:34pm

re: #865 LudwigVanQuixote

Again it is a lie to assert that there is not accurate temperature data before 1850. Thermometers were very well in use by the early 1700's and ships kept logs religiously as did tens of thousands of amateur local naturalists, and the scientific societies of Britain, France, America and Germany. The technology of a thermometer is not complicated.

To claim that these measurements do not exist is simply a lie.

Temperature measurements were something of a consuming interest in the eighteenth century.

875 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:37:02pm

re: #855 Decatur Deb

We're in Lower Alabama. We are on the wrong end of the actuarial tables for photovoltaics, but am looking at active solar hot water. We had it in Israel, and had to temper the water with cold.

Solar water heat would probably still make sense.

I have that too. Thank goodness for tempering valves. The heating side of it easily gets to 180F in the summer. Even with 60F air temp on a sunny day the heat loop is at 130F.

876 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:37:35pm

re: #852 Walter L. Newton

See my re: #840 Walter L. Newton... science question.

Walter a thinker and not a linker... What BS are you talking about... repeat your insipd question.. I am sure your juvenile gotcha will have nothing to do with anything. If you want to go on about Hdcrut 3 you will need to be a lot more specific.

As I pointed out the last time you embarrassed yourself with your nonsense, that was a very old model. Grid sizes have shrunk with computer power. We can do a lot better than grids the size of Nevada these days. Further the temperature data that goes in is the same when any model hindcasts.

In other words you are bitching about an old and superseeded model in a way that makes no particular sense, and even if it did, your objections are 30 years moot.

877 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:37:48pm

re: #777 LudwigVanQuixote

It is not over the top.

Look at the papers look into the data and look into the models.

Just look at the soil predictions for the US alone from Princeton GPFDL. We are talking about a 50-70% reduction in soil moisture across the American farm belt.

What happens to the US when we have 50-75% less food from that alone? If you couple it with the fact that many of our crops really really don't like being hotter, then I have seen predictions with as much as 90% of our food supply wiped out.

What about the effects of losing cities? A meter rise, which is low ball and the high end predictions are as much as two meters by the end of this century will wipe out our major eastern and west coast cities. That puts almost half of our population almost without a home.

What about the Southwest which will no longer have fresh water and the spread of contagion?

If you are not seriously concerned, you have not looked deeply into this. respectfully, this is not over the top. This is what is coming down the pike.

Having a disagreement does not mean I (or anyone else) am not seriously concerned, that I have not looked deeply into this. You seem to not understand that people can look at the same data and interpret it differently. I guess that's where the science ends and the activism begins. You want to discuss the science, and I brought up one point on CO2 solubility (which is sort of science related, and you ignored). But instead of providing me a little information, you're inferring that I am not concerned or have researched this.

Notice in this response that I didn't accuse you of anything.

878 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:37:54pm

re: #867 brookly red

How about I just think it?

Only if you think me some real good evidence. People keep running away from me on this one.

879 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:38:08pm

re: #869 albusteve

so what?...who cares?

People who want a future for America and their children. If you do not, that is your problem.

880 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:38:15pm

re: #854 NJDhockeyfan

So Ludwig is using proxy data as proof of AGW? Really? And we are supposed to jump on the bandwagon with 'substitute' data?

Exactly. There is no actual measurements from thermometers prior to cir. 1850, that is indisputable. Thus we need tree rings from a few trees on the Yamal Peninsular and other such 'temperature reconstructions' from things like ice cores, again, very regional. There is no global historical temperature proxy, only regional ones, and the tree rings have been falsified which is why they 'used the trick to hide the decline' by interpolating real reading when the tree rings showed a decline after 1960. On one chart they simply ended the proxy at 1960 and hid that by covering it with another line.

881 swamprat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:38:46pm

re: #804 Bagua

The scandal is the 'science' at this point, with Pachauri being called upon to resign on good cause, Prof. Phil Jones sidelined and being investigated by his own university as is M. Mann, Dr. Hasnain, and others. That is pretty much the whole alarmist 'Hockey Team'.

What remains is indeed the real science, which is not especially alarming without the hype.

You could be wrong. The theatre might very well be on fire. Maybe not infested with evil Martian clowns, but on fire none the less.

882 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:39:09pm

re: #877 Unakite

Having a disagreement does not mean I (or anyone else) am not seriously concerned, that I have not looked deeply into this. You seem to not understand that people can look at the same data and interpret it differently. I guess that's where the science ends and the activism begins. You want to discuss the science, and I brought up one point on CO2 solubility (which is sort of science related, and you ignored). But instead of providing me a little information, you're inferring that I am not concerned or have researched this.

Notice in this response that I didn't accuse you of anything.

Woah wait a minute I did reply to that. I mentioned saturation. It is possible to break a buffer system. This is discussed in the links I previously gave you. You must have missed my first reply.

883 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:39:15pm

re: #876 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter a thinker and not a linker... What BS are you talking about... repeat your insipd question.. I am sure your juvenile gotcha will have nothing to do with anything. If you want to go on about Hdcrut 3 you will need to be a lot more specific.

As I pointed out the last time you embarrassed yourself with your nonsense, that was a very old model. Grid sizes have shrunk with computer power. We can do a lot better than grids the size of Nevada these days. Further the temperature data that goes in is the same when any model hindcasts.

In other words you are bitching about an old and superseeded model in a way that makes no particular sense, and even if it did, your objections are 30 years moot.

Are you saying that the Hadcrut3 dataset is obsolete and not used in any of the science anymore?

884 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:39:16pm

re: #860 Gus 802

I think the people calling out alarmism on the AGW side must have missed the speech by Nick Griffin of the BNP. Or the call from their side using phrases like "scientific fascism" or "global environmental communism!!!11!!" Or the countless alarmist diatribes from the like of Glenn Beck and Lord Mockton. Or the BS we hear from Alex Jones on the matter.

Right, alarmism.

Certainly you wouldn't be making a tu quoque argument, would you?

885 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:39:30pm

re: #880 Bagua

Do not dare to talk for me.

886 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:39:51pm

Clean Power Estimator

Clean Power EstimatorTM is an economic evaluation software program the California Energy Commission is licensing for use from Clean Power Research. The program provides California residential and commercial electric customers a personalized estimate of the costs and benefits of investing in a photovoltaic (PV) solar or small wind electric generation system.

The program takes into consideration customer-specific information in order to provide the best estimate of a given system's costs and benefits. This information includes the estimated cost of the particular system under consideration, the customer's location, electric rate schedules, and other customer information.

887 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:40:17pm

re: #854 NJDhockeyfan

So Ludwig is using proxy data as proof of AGW? Really? And we are supposed to jump on the bandwagon with 'substitute' data?

Uhh no... that is only part of the picture. We have direct temperature measurements from al over the world going back 300 years.

888 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:40:50pm

re: #854 NJDhockeyfan

As I understand the rambling dualing links, tree rings are the proxy. We want to know the temp, we can only measure tree rings, affected by temp (and rainfall, and whether another tree nearby grew and put it in the shade, and termites, and volcanoes.) An honest scientist can tease the truth out of vague and mischevious data. Maybe in the Tundra, it's always moist, and you take the average of numerous trees, so pretty much the temperature is all that affects average tree ring size.

/not an environmental scientist
//passable statistician
///certain that the globe is warming
////agnostic on our role, causality

889 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:40:53pm

re: #879 LudwigVanQuixote

People who want a future for America and their children. If you do not, that is your problem.

I didn't say I did not care...you should not infer what others are thinking, makes you seem less than smart and more of a zealot...but you are living in a fantasy world if you think the human race is going to reverse GW...pure lunacy

890 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:41:29pm

re: #883 Walter L. Newton

Are you saying that the Hadcrut3 dataset is obsolete and not used in any of the science anymore?

Why Walter, why do you do this? Do you think you are being clever... Why not read what was written and then read the actual papers given.

891 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:41:29pm

re: #856 LudwigVanQuixote

Well the UN is only as compromised as the member states make it.

IN terms of policy, I really don't see how any global policy could be reached without the UN in some capacity.

As to the science, well look at the American Physical Society, or the Royal society or any number of prestigious scientific organizations. They all tell the same story.

The problem is that the majority of the member states like it corrupt. They likely won't allow RK Pachauri to receive the trial for corruption and prison sentence he justly deserves. That's why I want to sideline the UN. It is not a trustworthy organization, absent massive reforms that are not currently possible.

892 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:41:32pm

re: #876 LudwigVanQuixote

Wow. Resorting to attacks.

893 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:42:10pm

re: #885 LudwigVanQuixote

Do not dare to talk for me.

hahaha!....that's rich!....man, you just ooze with irony sometimes

894 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:42:28pm

re: #892 MandyManners

Wow. Resorting to attacks.

Mandy don't even after a side conversation about me being a real scientist or not... fuck you bitch.

895 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:42:33pm

re: #868 Decatur Deb

I've been waiting for our AGW threads to get past "is--aint--is too--aint". It would be good to talk reasonable courses of action.

there is no reasonable action other than to denounce hypocrites. when someone gives up their own car, air conditioning, food processor, TV, washer /dryer & yes internet, then let them tell me about reasonable actions.

896 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:42:52pm

re: #887 LudwigVanQuixote

Uhh no... that is only part of the picture. We have direct temperature measurements from al over the world going back 300 years.

Which evidently you don't seem to know anything about since you didn't answer my question.

Unless you tell me that the Hadcrut3 dataset is obsolete and not used in any of the science anymore, my question stands and is valid.

And don't try to avoid my question by saying you don't understand my inquiry. If you are so up and current on the temperature collection from 1850 onward, my question makes perfect sense and a scientist would have no problem understanding it and giving me a scientific answer.

Or is this going to be sort of "I don't know what you are talking about" again?

897 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:43:01pm

re: #892 MandyManners

Wow. Resorting to attacks.

of course

898 swamprat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:43:25pm

Anybody up for a drunken brawl?

899 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:44:07pm

re: #878 SanFranciscoZionist

Only if you think me some real good evidence. People keep running away from me on this one.

OK, I reject Franken for the same reason I reject Senator Clinton. Carpetbagger.

900 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:44:13pm

re: #890 LudwigVanQuixote

Why Walter, why do you do this? Do you think you are being clever... Why not read what was written and then read the actual papers given.

And why can't you answer my question... "Are you saying that the Hadcrut3 dataset is obsolete and not used in any of the science anymore?"

A simple yes or no would do, or one of your more detailed answers would be good, but deflection is not science, and that's all that we see you doing right now.

901 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:44:13pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

Mandy don't even after a side conversation about me being a real scientist or not... fuck you bitch.

can we save that remark for your new groupies?

902 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:44:45pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

Mandy don't even after a side conversation about me being a real scientist or not... fuck you bitch.

See what I mean about your uh . . . fuse?

903 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:44:52pm

re: #898 swamprat

Anybody up for a drunken brawl?

I'm in!
I haven't busted up a bar in decades...

904 Gus  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:45:05pm

re: #884 Van Helsing

Certainly you wouldn't be making a tu quoque argument, would you?

Technically, no because I would argue because of the existence of alarmism on both sides it equals out. I'm not necessarily saying this isn't true for either case.

905 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:45:23pm

re: #895 brookly red

there is no reasonable action other than to denounce hypocrites. when someone gives up their own car, air conditioning, food processor, TV, washer /dryer & yes internet, then let them tell me about reasonable actions.

Denouncing is soul-satisfying, but not effective. Better to determine what needs to be done, then convince the majority to do it.

906 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:45:48pm

re: #896 Walter L. Newton

Which evidently you don't seem to know anything about since you didn't answer my question.

Unless you tell me that the Hadcrut3 dataset is obsolete and not used in any of the science anymore, my question stands and is valid.

And don't try to avoid my question by saying you don't understand my inquiry. If you are so up and current on the temperature collection from 1850 onward, my question makes perfect sense and a scientist would have no problem understanding it and giving me a scientific answer.

Or is this going to be sort of "I don't know what you are talking about" again?

NO Walter I am saying that there are many much more sophisicated models. As to the grid sizes, since that is what you were referring to, you are wrong. Hadcrut 3 is much better than that. Now I asked you to be specific. Are you talking about the code for one of the models or about the data set?

907 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:46:00pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

So, I will try again...

And... as new, updated temperature data was inserted in the 5 degrees by 5 degrees grid for any certain month/year of the Hadcrut3 database, did they...

1) Keep records of what the last temperature was.
2) Keep records of the actual location of where the temperature was recorded.

The 5 degree by 5 degree grids that divided the planet in the Hadcrut3 dataset are about the size of Nevada. It is very important to know the actual location, the source and the time/date of the temperature reading.

Do they have that information for all the grids, for all the months, for all the years from 1850 until 1999?

908 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:46:02pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

Have a downding for the ugly insult. That was uncalled for, Ludwig. I know how important this issue is, but you're not going to bring people around by hurling insults. That only firms their convict to oppose you. Being unyielding does not mean being a jerk.

909 Gus  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:46:10pm

Getting a little too hot in here.

Hasta later.

910 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:46:20pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

Mandy don't even after a side conversation about me being a real scientist or not... fuck you bitch.

Link?

911 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:46:40pm

re: #906 LudwigVanQuixote

NO Walter I am saying that there are many much more sophisicated models. As to the grid sizes, since that is what you were referring to, you are wrong. Hadcrut 3 is much better than that. Now I asked you to be specific. Are you talking about the code for one of the models or about the data set?

The dataset itself.

And... as new, updated temperature data was inserted in the 5 degrees by 5 degrees grid for any certain month/year of the Hadcrut3 database, did they...

1) Keep records of what the last temperature was.
2) Keep records of the actual location of where the temperature was recorded.

The 5 degree by 5 degree grids that divided the planet in the Hadcrut3 dataset are about the size of Nevada. It is very important to know the actual location, the source and the time/date of the temperature reading.

Do they have that information for all the grids, for all the months, for all the years from 1850 until 1999?

912 swamprat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:46:45pm

re: #903 Van Helsing


I'll hand out roller skates and we can start up a roller derby!

913 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:47:15pm

re: #905 Decatur Deb

Denouncing is soul-satisfying, but not effective. Better to determine what needs to be done, then convince the majority to do it.

and what needs to be done?

914 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:47:24pm

re: #874 SanFranciscoZionist

Temperature measurements were something of a consuming interest in the eighteenth century.

Having a crude thermometer and maintaining accurate records from diverse regions are two very different things.

Here is the excerpt from wiki which cites the appropriate papers:


A reconstruction is needed because a reliable surface temperature record exists only since about 1850.

Here

Here is a chart of the Instrumental Temperature Record as complied by HadCRUT3.

UNEP

This is well known by any real scientist, there are some regional records going back as early as 1659, the Central England Temperature data series, but nothing that qualifies as even quasi-global which starts around 1850.

Here is the Wiki overview which cites all its sources

915 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:48:07pm

re: #892 MandyManners

... which you never do, right? Hypocrite.


re: #908 Dark_Falcon

Make sure you remember that the next time Mandy does it :P This is exactly my point from 500 posts ago.

916 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:48:20pm

re: #902 Silvergirl

See what I mean about your uh . . . fuse?

yeah ok fine so I have one and I am tired of the normal folks who jump on me. They got their ten or so posts to dig on me and I snapped back. It adds nothing and detracts nothing. we have Walter who doesn't even know how to manage algebra about to try to come up with a convoluted argument about stuff I debunked from him about three months ago, because like a broken record, he just repeats the same drivel over and over and another total asshole who is simply lying. Then Mandy has to jump in. Well good on her.... She is after all noted here for never cussing.

917 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:48:24pm

re: #870 Racer X

Favorited, Gotta get some sleep now. 'Nite, all.

918 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:48:24pm

re: #909 Gus 802

Getting a little too hot in here.

Hasta later.

Let me thank you again for the film recommend yesterday.

I enjoyed it immensely!

919 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:48:31pm

re: #915 windsagio

... which you never do, right? Hypocrite.

re: #908 Dark_Falcon

Make sure you remember that the next time Mandy does it :P This is exactly my point from 500 posts ago.

Understood.

920 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:48:49pm

re: #903 Van Helsing

I'm in!
I haven't busted up a bar in decades...

then perhaps you are not in your best form at this point?

921 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:49:09pm

re: #899 brookly red

OK, I reject Franken for the same reason I reject Senator Clinton. Carpetbagger.

Feel free to dislike carpetbaggers.. I've had two people pop up here in the last couple of weeks, accuse Franken very speicifically of voter fraud, and then vanish when I asked for further information.

I've seen the reaction when anyone suggests that there was anything hinky about the 2000 election, so I was sort of surprised that so few people responded to these allegations. /

922 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:49:20pm

re: #848 LudwigVanQuixote

Well if the people here on the other side bring any sort of scientific argument, I will be glad to address it. Look, the case has been made and not just by me. The data is out there in tons and is quite manifest. If you are actually a scientist then please read up on it. You will recognize the caliber of papers I brought and be able to follow the references. Don't take my word for it, do the reading yourself. I stand by the findings of the community.

Fair enough and civil response. As it is late here, I haven't had a chance to look at the links you posted earlier. The point of my comment to that particular post was it was full of insults and does nothing to advance science or scientific discussion.

923 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:49:24pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

THAT is what I've been talking about. You have no class.

924 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:49:33pm

re: #885 LudwigVanQuixote

Do not dare to talk for me.

How can you punish me further? You've already called me scum and worse. Do you have arrows left in your quiver? Lol.

Just debate facts Ludwig and put aside the hatred. Science is about facts, not personal attacks.

925 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:50:09pm

re: #915 windsagio

... which you never do, right? Hypocrite.

re: #908 Dark_Falcon

Make sure you remember that the next time Mandy does it :P This is exactly my point from 500 posts ago.

the blind following the blind....watch your step!

926 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:50:18pm

Bagua's link-fu is strong

927 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:50:30pm

re: #916 LudwigVanQuixote

yeah ok fine so I have one and I am tired of the normal folks who jump on me. They got their ten or so posts to dig on me and I snapped back. It adds nothing and detracts nothing. we have Walter who doesn't even know how to manage algebra about to try to come up with a convoluted argument about stuff I debunked from him about three months ago, because like a broken record, he just repeats the same drivel over and over and another total asshole who is simply lying. Then Mandy has to jump in. Well good on her... She is after all noted here for never cussing.

Tu Quque fallacy. Just because Mandy curses, does not mean you should call her a bitch. She had not insulted you and you cursed her out. It was an action of poor grace.

928 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:50:51pm

re: #916 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, it's been almost 100 comments since I asked you a science question and you have not answered it yet. You have made a few tries at deflecting away from the question, but you have not been able to answer.

This is not looking good.

929 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:50:58pm

re: #916 LudwigVanQuixote

yeah ok fine so I have one and I am tired of the normal folks who jump on me. They got their ten or so posts to dig on me and I snapped back. It adds nothing and detracts nothing. we have Walter who doesn't even know how to manage algebra about to try to come up with a convoluted argument about stuff I debunked from him about three months ago, because like a broken record, he just repeats the same drivel over and over and another total asshole who is simply lying. Then Mandy has to jump in. Well good on her... She is after all noted here for never cussing.

Mandy noted for never cussing? Maybe noted for not cussing at another Lizard in such a hateful childish way.

How do you live surrounded by all these assholes and dolts in general?

930 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:50:59pm

re: #921 SanFranciscoZionist

Feel free to dislike carpetbaggers.. I've had two people pop up here in the last couple of weeks, accuse Franken very speicifically of voter fraud, and then vanish when I asked for further information.

I've seen the reaction when anyone suggests that there was anything hinky about the 2000 election, so I was sort of surprised that so few people responded to these allegations. /

hey the science is settled... I don't want to be call a Franken denier...

931 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:51:00pm

re: #886 Racer X

Clean Power Estimator

Clean Power EstimatorTM is an economic evaluation software program the California Energy Commission is licensing for use from Clean Power Research. The program provides California residential and commercial electric customers a personalized estimate of the costs and benefits of investing in a photovoltaic (PV) solar or small wind electric generation system.

The program takes into consideration customer-specific information in order to provide the best estimate of a given system's costs and benefits. This information includes the estimated cost of the particular system under consideration, the customer's location, electric rate schedules, and other customer information.

Shoot.

17 years to payback, on a system that may make it 20 years. Add in the increased insurance premiums and it may not be worth it.

932 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:51:05pm

re: #926 keloyd

Bagua's link-fu is strong

:)

933 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:51:18pm

re: #913 brookly red

and what needs to be done?

That's what I wish smart people here were talking about. Certainly something, but how radical and how fast are unknowns (to me).

934 windsagio  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:51:42pm

In general, I just wanted to stop by on my way out the door, having cooled down some.

Being calm and rational now, I want to say this. There is an unacceptable level of bad faith on the part of a faction here (bagua, walter, etc) on the subject of AGW. They're not interested in learning anything on the subject, and its just bad news. Its worse because they pretend to a position they don't believe, just to get their doubt-casting in.

Have some respect for yourselves and others.


/whew that felt better. I've wanted to say that for months, but I was afraid to. Now I don't have to feel bad about leaving LVQ to fight on his own.

935 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:51:50pm

re: #916 LudwigVanQuixote

yeah ok fine so I have one and I am tired of the normal folks who jump on me. They got their ten or so posts to dig on me and I snapped back. It adds nothing and detracts nothing. we have Walter who doesn't even know how to manage algebra about to try to come up with a convoluted argument about stuff I debunked from him about three months ago, because like a broken record, he just repeats the same drivel over and over and another total asshole who is simply lying. Then Mandy has to jump in. Well good on her... She is after all noted here for never cussing.

Again with the personal attack.

936 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:51:52pm

re: #911 Walter L. Newton

The dataset itself.

And... as new, updated temperature data was inserted in the 5 degrees by 5 degrees grid for any certain month/year of the Hadcrut3 database, did they...

1) Keep records of what the last temperature was.
2) Keep records of the actual location of where the temperature was recorded.

The 5 degree by 5 degree grids that divided the planet in the Hadcrut3 dataset are about the size of Nevada. It is very important to know the actual location, the source and the time/date of the temperature reading.

Do they have that information for all the grids, for all the months, for all the years from 1850 until 1999?

Tell you what Walter, as a matter of fact they do.

Here is the actual paper... Try to read it sometime.

[Link: www.cru.uea.ac.uk...]

The historical surface temperature dataset HadCRUT provides a record of surface temperature trends and variability since 1850. A new version of this dataset, HadCRUT3, has been produced; benefiting from recent improvements to the sea-surface temperature dataset which forms its marine component, and from improvements to the station records which provide the land data. A comprehensive set of uncertainty estimates has been derived to accompany the data: estimates of measurement and sampling error, temperature bias effects, and the effect of limited observational coverage on large-scale averages have all been made. Since the mid-20th century the uncertainties in global and hemispheric mean temperatures are small and the temperature increase greatly exceeds its uncertainty. In earlier periods the uncertainties are larger, but the temperature increase over the 20th century is still significantly larger than its uncertainty.

Now the point is, that we have very very reliable data on the increase in global temperatures. If you read this paper it goes into all of the gory details.

Actually read it for once and stop wasting my time.

937 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:52:24pm

re: #909 Gus 802

Getting a little too hot in here.

So take off all your clothes...

Too early?

938 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:52:44pm

re: #935 MandyManners

Again with the personal attack.

It's his MO.

939 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:52:55pm

re: #924 Bagua

Facts like all of the papers I have linked and explanations given?

Do not talk to me. You are scum.

940 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:53:14pm

re: #930 brookly red

hey the science is settled scuttled... I don't want to be call a Franken denier...

Fixed.


(But I jest, only the alarmist nonsense which is actually the perversion of science is scuttled, the real science remains intact, however, it is not at all alarming or certain as we are discovering.

941 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:53:16pm

Just as a general observation...

if you don't have a dog in this fight, then stay out.

942 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:53:19pm

re: #937 marjoriemoon

So take off all your clothes...


[Video]Too early?

in bed.

/not really.

943 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:53:21pm

re: #938 NJDhockeyfan

It's his MO.

Oh shut up. I have a limit to the playground bullshit here. Even yours.

944 brookly red  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:53:26pm

I got a sudden urge to shoot some 8 ball... later folks.

945 swamprat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:53:31pm

re: #914 Bagua

Mercury thermometers vs alcohol thermometers.

Mercury won't read below 20 below.

946 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:54:18pm

re: #914 Bagua

I would add that early nautical water temperatures recorded would be affected by a number things:
ships speed
how long the collection bucket sat before temp was measured
calibration of the thermometer
accuracy of the Mark I Eyeball/Brain set doing the reading
local weather at the time of the reading

Not all of these are recorded in the log.

947 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:54:25pm

re: #882 LudwigVanQuixote

Woah wait a minute I did reply to that. I mentioned saturation. It is possible to break a buffer system. This is discussed in the links I previously gave you. You must have missed my first reply.

Again, fair enough. I've said twice that I haven't looked at you links. I'm going back now (but this thread may be dead before I return).

948 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:54:28pm

re: #936 LudwigVanQuixote

Now the point is, that we have very very reliable data on the increase in global temperatures. If you read this paper it goes into all of the gory details.

Actually read it for once and stop wasting my time.

This does not answer my question and you know it. Stop the deflection and answer my question...

And... as new, updated temperature data was inserted in the 5 degrees by 5 degrees grid for any certain month/year of the Hadcrut3 database, did they...

1) Keep records of what the last temperature was.
2) Keep records of the actual location of where the temperature was recorded.

The 5 degree by 5 degree grids that divided the planet in the Hadcrut3 dataset are about the size of Nevada. It is very important to know the actual location, the source and the time/date of the temperature reading.

Do they have that information for all the grids, for all the months, for all the years from 1850 until 1999?

949 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:54:47pm

re: #935 MandyManners

Again with the personal attack.

After 50 from him. Mandy, I don't mind that you hate me. I mind that you lie and distort what happened... Ohhh and by the way fuck you bitch.

950 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:54:59pm

re: #943 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh shut up. I have a limit to the playground bullshit here. Even yours.

Then how do you put up with yourself?

951 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:55:21pm

re: #939 LudwigVanQuixote

Facts like all of the papers I have linked and explanations given?

Do not talk to me. You are scum.

Ludwig...I think, with your temperament, you would be better suited to North Korean culture....they say it's nice there in the spring

952 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:55:37pm

I'll try and stay out of this discussion, but it reminds me of the anti-evolution argument. Ignore the tons of data supporting evolution, and focus on the small errors and unknowns. It seems we are doing the same with AGW. Since the data supports warming, attack the accuracy of some of the data any way possible, and ignore the rest.

953 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:55:48pm

re: #951 albusteve

Ludwig...I think, with your temperament, you would be better suited to North Korean culture...they say it's nice there in the spring

Zingo... how long were you holding on to that?

954 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:56:18pm

re: #948 Walter L. Newton

This does not answer my question and you know it. Stop the deflection and answer my question...

And... as new, updated temperature data was inserted in the 5 degrees by 5 degrees grid for any certain month/year of the Hadcrut3 database, did they...

1) Keep records of what the last temperature was.
2) Keep records of the actual location of where the temperature was recorded.

The 5 degree by 5 degree grids that divided the planet in the Hadcrut3 dataset are about the size of Nevada. It is very important to know the actual location, the source and the time/date of the temperature reading.

Do they have that information for all the grids, for all the months, for all the years from 1850 until 1999?

What are you talking about? Of course it answers you. There is the complete discussion of exactly how much is known and to what accuracy. What else do you want? Stop wasting my time and read.

955 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:56:29pm

re: #952 avanti

I'll try and stay out of this discussion, but it reminds me of the anti-evolution argument. Ignore the tons of data supporting evolution, and focus on the small errors and unknowns. It seems we are doing the same with AGW. Since the data supports warming, attack the accuracy of some of the data any way possible, and ignore the rest.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

(I can keep linking to the same tired stuff over and over just like Ludwig)

956 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:56:43pm

re: #951 albusteve

Ludwig...I think, with your temperament, you would be better suited to North Korean culture...they say it's nice there in the spring

No not really asshole. They like torturing people there.

957 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:57:01pm

re: #943 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh shut up. I have a limit to the playground bullshit here. Even yours.

You call Mandy a bitch for absolutely no reason and you complain about playground bullshit?

Ha!

958 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:57:23pm

re: #934 windsagio

Windsagio, that is incorrect, both Walter and I have shown flexibility and curiosity, and we acknowledge new information. For example, I used to defend the IPCC AR4 as representing the scientific consensus, I know acknowledge I was misled and that the IPCC AR4 is rife with errors and alarmism based upon activist reports from Greenpeace and WWF.

Walter has also been influenced by recent revelations.

959 swamprat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:57:26pm

re: #952 avanti


Pretty much.

960 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:57:27pm

I'm not going to name names, but in 5 minutes it's going to be Sunday, then some of you will have to stop all this junior high namecalling nonsense.

961 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:57:39pm

re: #920 brookly red

then perhaps you are not in your best form at this point?

Round is a form.

2 decades of child rearing mellowed me out.
The alternative would have involved incarceration - worse - anger management classes.

962 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:57:55pm

re: #951 albusteve

Sorry, I have to downding you for that, as I downdinged Ludwig for the same thing. Fair is fair, and insults don't help things.

963 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:58:10pm

re: #929 Silvergirl

Mandy noted for never cussing? Maybe noted for not cussing at another Lizard in such a hateful childish way.

How do you live surrounded by all these assholes and dolts in general?

In fairness, I've been called a Co##k sucker once, but the Lizard did apologize, and Ludwig might do likewise.

964 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:58:11pm

re: #952 avanti

I'll try and stay out of this discussion, but it reminds me of the anti-evolution argument. Ignore the tons of data supporting evolution, and focus on the small errors and unknowns. It seems we are doing the same with AGW. Since the data supports warming, attack the accuracy of some of the data any way possible, and ignore the rest.

That is exactly what Walter is doing only he doesn't know enough math to even begin to do it. Part of why this is so infuriating is that people on that side are exactly the same as the anti evolution troglodytes in their methods and their pseudo science.

965 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:58:50pm

re: #943 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh shut up. I have a limit to the playground bullshit here. Even yours.

Again.

966 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:59:27pm

re: #956 LudwigVanQuixote

No not really asshole. They like torturing people there.

you are no scientist, you're a fake...I don't take you seriously since any scientist would certainly have more self control and humility....two bit fraud

967 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 8:59:47pm

re: #865 LudwigVanQuixote

Again it is a lie to assert that there is not accurate temperature data before 1850. Thermometers were very well in use by the early 1700's and ships kept logs religiously as did tens of thousands of amateur local naturalists, and the scientific societies of Britain, France, America and Germany. The technology of a thermometer is not complicated.

To claim that these measurements do not exist is simply a lie.

It just seems awfully harsh to tag others as liars for their views. And thermometers seem to have been particularly iffy devices for a long time really. Lotta bubbles and liquids and atmospherics creating various results until something better came along. To insist that these records, however dutifully kept, were accurate according to early thermometers seems odd.

968 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:00:33pm

re: #962 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, I have to downding you for that, as I downdinged Ludwig for the same thing. Fair is fair, and insults don't help things.

I don't care and you know it...save your breath

969 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:00:40pm

re: #949 LudwigVanQuixote

No kimchi for me.

970 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:01:04pm

"Here its another Saturday night,
And we've got a flame war.
I've got no money though I just got paid.
Now how I wish the insults would stop please,
I'm in an awful way."

971 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:01:17pm

re: #945 swamprat

Mercury thermometers vs alcohol thermometers.

Mercury won't read below 20 below.

Yes, and some were in Fahrenheit, not Celsius, and measured to full degrees, not tenth of a degree.

And again, there were some temperature reading as far back as 1691 in England, but that is regional, the accepted quasi-global record starts about 1850, and even that is quasi. There are many that dispute if we are able to measure an accurate global temperature today because of the chaotic nature of the weather.

972 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:01:39pm

re: #956 LudwigVanQuixote

Again.

973 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:01:46pm

I love kimchi, I can't get enough of it, and believe it or not I am as white as the Devil himself.

974 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:02:04pm

re: #964 LudwigVanQuixote

That is exactly what Walter is doing only he doesn't know enough math to even begin to do it. Part of why this is so infuriating is that people on that side are exactly the same as the anti evolution troglodytes in their methods and their pseudo science.

No, we are talking cross purpose her. I acknowledge the validity of the science, and the need to do something about AGW.

You refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem with the process, procedure and protocol of some of the most influential players in the AGW science community, such as the CRU, Pachauri, the IPCC, the AR4, Al Gore, the politics of Copenhagen and so on.

The people and organizations I mention above are making a mockery of the science, and it must be stopped.

If you are not concerned with the fixing the problems, then you are part of the problem.

975 swamprat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:02:16pm

re: #964 LudwigVanQuixote


I respect you very much. Especially your fellings about torture, Though I disagree on the details. Please take a breather before this goes too far. I think you are intelligent enough to choose your battles.

976 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:02:16pm

re: #964 LudwigVanQuixote

Again.

977 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:03:54pm

re: #956 LudwigVanQuixote

No not really asshole. They like torturing people there.

Didn't you complain about the US torturing terrorists a while back? Is there any place safe in the world?

978 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:03:57pm

I still would like a link to the post in which I said LVQ is not a scientist.

979 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:04:42pm

re: #966 albusteve

you are no scientist, you're a fake...I don't take you seriously since any scientist would certainly have more self control and humility...two bit fraud

Ahhh thanks buddy... now that is out of the way, care to adress the actual science or would you rather just rant that the science doesn't matter because everyone dies anyway....

If you people had any respect at all for the science and actually looked at it, you would not say such things and not make this about me. I really don't care if you hate me. I care that you read the damn science and look at the data.

Why not try that? Ohhh... because that would be what an educated person would do, but you are just an internet blowhard... so fuck you too.

I am tired of the dirtbags here who think that their petty opinions on important matters are the equivalent of actually looking at the science. I am tired of you ignorant idiots and I am just not going to take it. And no, that is not about just disagreeing with me.. It isn't about me at all. Not a one of you has any desire to actually look at or discuss the science itself... so why should I waste my precious time talking to idiots as if they were some how relevent?

980 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:05:03pm

re: #939 LudwigVanQuixote

Do not talk to me. You are scum.

No, I'm a human being just like you, fallible, and perhaps even wrong on AGW, but human.

981 swamprat  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:05:42pm

re: #977 NJDhockeyfan

Didn't you complain about the US torturing terrorists a while back? Is there any place safe in the world?


Yes. He doesn't like torture. That means he is consistent.

982 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:05:52pm

re: #978 MandyManners

I still would like a link to the post in which I said LVQ is not a scientist.

I never saw it and I've been here all along...I think it may ahve been some kind of Post Impotance Vanity Syndrome hallucination, I may be wrong tho

983 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:06:19pm

re: #977 NJDhockeyfan

Didn't you complain about the US torturing terrorists a while back? Is there any place safe in the world?

Uhhh yes I complained about violating our law and principles like any real American would. That is why I pointed out that your views are like the ones they have in North Korea, and that simple fact, the Norks do love to torture (just like you think it is a good thing) you took as an insult...

984 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:06:32pm

re: #979 LudwigVanQuixote

scrollski...move on

985 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:06:52pm

re: #722 Walter L. Newton

I have not once said the science is faulty... but the High Priest of the science, Dr. Pachauri, is not even a scientist and he has questionable connections right and left.

Dr. Pachauri, you know, the head of the IPCC, the guy you said you have never even heard of?

re: #656 Walter L. Newton

It's becoming more and more evident that while a lot of people were not watching, the AGW science was hijacked by "scientist" who had more of a political and monetary interest then in any interest in solid science.

The High Priest of climate science Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, The head of the UN's climate change panel, has become an embarrassment to many scientist who have a honest interest in the problem of AGW.

Hmmm...

986 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:07:24pm

re: #979 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahhh thanks buddy... now that is out of the way, care to adress the actual science or would you rather just rant that the science doesn't matter because everyone dies anyway...

Here is some of the actual "science" that Ludwig is defending...

"UN climate change panel based claims on student dissertation and magazine article - The United Nations' expert panel on climate change based claims about ice disappearing from the world's mountain tops on a student's dissertation and an article in a mountaineering magazine."

After all the good information Ludwig gave us about the necessity of peer-reviewed science, we start finding out that the IPCC has no problem using some of the most obtuse sources for their scientific papers if it agrees with their preconceived notions.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

987 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:08:09pm

re: #971 Bagua

If you loosen up on the standards for accuracy, you can go back much further with (our word of the day!) proxies like how often certain prominent rivers froze. The Danube never freezes today. In Roman times, we know when it did because Germanic hordes would run across it and kill people and break stuff. Same for the Thames*, same for lots of civilized places. Result? - Roman times were cooler than today. the 1000s to 1300's were very warm, then something like the 16th to 18th C were unusually cool, and THOSE swings were bigger than the slow and steady warming trend today, iirc.

*ah, just looked up on Wiki, they straightened, deepened, and narrowed the Thames in London, making it harder to freeze mid 19th C, but the records before that are good - impossible to misinterpret, skew, or spin.

988 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:08:29pm

re: #979 LudwigVanQuixote

And, again.

989 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:08:34pm

re: #980 Bagua

No, I'm a human being just like you, fallible, and perhaps even wrong on AGW, but human.

Which part of you are scum and I detest you are you missing. Fuck you and go away. You are a liar and a cretin and a coward. And you a a pathetic excuse for a Jew isf you think calling someone a Kapo is OK after spreading the slur about Jewish run banks.

Fuck you and die someplace far away from me.

990 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:08:40pm

re: #979 LudwigVanQuixote

.. so fuck you too.

I am tired of the dirtbags here who think that their petty opinions on important matters are the equivalent of actually looking at the science. I am tired of you ignorant idiots and I am just not going to take it. And no, that is not about just disagreeing with me.. It isn't about me at all. Not a one of you has any desire to actually look at or discuss the science itself... so why should I waste my precious time talking to idiots as if they were some how relevent?

We are also tired of the anger and hatred Ludwig, most of us are truly seeking truth and want honest and civil debate.

991 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:09:20pm

re: #985 Olsonist

Hmmm...

Yes, notice the quotes around scientist. There are good AGW scientist, but they are not at the top of the game. It's people like the head of the IPCC who lord over the science like a High Priest, those are the ones I call questionable.

Read if you want...

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

992 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:09:25pm

re: #987 keloyd

My grandfather used to walk across the Mississippi River in the winter. It hasn't frozen over in quite some time.

993 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:09:58pm

re: #986 Walter L. Newton

Here is some of the actual "science" that Ludwig is defending...

"UN climate change panel based claims on student dissertation and magazine article - The United Nations' expert panel on climate change based claims about ice disappearing from the world's mountain tops on a student's dissertation and an article in a mountaineering magazine."

After all the good information Ludwig gave us about the necessity of peer-reviewed science, we start finding out that the IPCC has no problem using some of the most obtuse sources for their scientific papers if it agrees with their preconceived notions.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Umm care to note Walter that you are lying. For over a year I have been complaining about the political flaws in IPCC.

The science I am defending are the actual papers.

Yet you feel the need to lie.

Fuck you old man.

994 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:10:12pm

Ludwig is more fun than any troll I've ever seen in three years, by far

995 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:10:12pm

re: #979 LudwigVanQuixote

And, again.

996 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:10:35pm

I'll come back later.

Hang in the there, Ludwig. A lot of this is baiting you.

997 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:10:37pm

re: #990 Bagua

We are also tired of the anger and hatred Ludwig, most of us are truly seeking truth and want honest and civil debate.

No you don't. Don't lie about that and stop talking to me.

998 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:10:48pm

re: #996 marjoriemoon

I'll come back later.

Hang in the there, Ludwig. A lot of this is baiting you.

I know it is.

999 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:11:27pm

re: #993 LudwigVanQuixote

Umm care to note Walter that you are lying. For over a year I have been complaining about the political flaws in IPCC.

The science I am defending are the actual papers.

Yet you feel the need to lie.

Fuck you old man.

Link please to some of you complaints about the IPCC... and my problems with the IPCC IS THIER ACTUAL PAPERS.

And stop with the insults.

1000 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:11:39pm

re: #989 LudwigVanQuixote

Fuck you and die someplace far away from me.

When you spew this type of ugliness, it makes it really hard to take the other things you post seriously.

Seriously.

1001 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:11:51pm

re: #979 LudwigVanQuixote

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right . . . to say nothing of the "internet blowhards, dirtbags, and ignorant idiots."

1002 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:12:07pm

re: #996 marjoriemoon

I'll come back later.

Hang in the there, Ludwig. A lot of this is baiting you.

Yes, we are FORCING him to insult and curse at everyone. give me a break.

1003 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:12:35pm

re: #989 LudwigVanQuixote

You were goaded into that by someone trolling who knew you would go off in irrational rage. Regarding a fellow Jew a "scum" and a "dirtbag" is exactly the behaviour of a Kapo.

However, I retract my comment and apologise, my reaction came after your insinuation that I was an antiSemite and other outrageous demonisations and repeatedly calling me "scum", and "doucebagia" and such. But I do retract my comment.

1004 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:12:45pm

re: #1001 Silvergirl

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right . . . to say nothing of the "internet blowhards, dirtbags, and ignorant idiots."

Look you are getting in the middle of a long standing feud. I have no beef with you.

1005 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:12:54pm

re: #992 Olsonist

My grandfather used to walk across the Mississippi River in the winter. It hasn't frozen over in quite some time.

Weather, not climate.

1006 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:13:05pm

Walter L. Newton:

I have not once said the science is faulty...

It's becoming more and more evident that while a lot of people were not watching, the AGW science was hijacked ...

1007 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:13:07pm

re: #992 Olsonist

My grandfather used to walk across the Mississippi River in the winter. It hasn't frozen over in quite some time.

too many levees....the CofE keeps the river in it's deepest fasted channels....it will never freeze over again....maybe way up in Minny, but certainly not the mid or lower valleys

1008 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:13:10pm

re: #1002 Walter L. Newton

Yes, we are FORCING him to insult and curse at everyone. give me a break.

No just you asshole.

1009 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:13:25pm

re: #1006 Olsonist

Walter L. Newton:

I have not once said the science is faulty...

It's becoming more and more evident that while a lot of people were not watching, the AGW science was hijacked ...

Good on you!

1010 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:13:53pm

re: #987 keloyd

If you loosen up on the standards for accuracy, you can go back much further with (our word of the day!) proxies like how often certain prominent rivers froze. The Danube never freezes today. In Roman times, we know when it did because Germanic hordes would run across it and kill people and break stuff. Same for the Thames*, same for lots of civilized places. Result? - Roman times were cooler than today. the 1000s to 1300's were very warm, then something like the 16th to 18th C were unusually cool, and THOSE swings were bigger than the slow and steady warming trend today, iirc.

*ah, just looked up on Wiki, they straightened, deepened, and narrowed the Thames in London, making it harder to freeze mid 19th C, but the records before that are good - impossible to misinterpret, skew, or spin.

Regionally warmer and cooler periods exist in the climate record for the last few 1000 years, but we're talking world wide warming, not Italy, or even all of Europe.

1011 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:14:08pm

All my ding buttons have dropped off.

1012 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:14:35pm

re: #791 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
Significant dialog taking place!
It's like a tennis match.
Whack! Turn left.
Whack! Turn right!
Whack! Turn left!
Continue until point taken!

Lather, rinse and repeat!
LOL!
(You DO know, this just uses more product, shampoo, in this case?)

Whack, just for fun!

(Why are we still doing this?)

1013 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:14:46pm

re: #1006 Olsonist

Walter L. Newton:

I have not once said the science is faulty...

It's becoming more and more evident that while a lot of people were not watching, the AGW science was hijacked ...

I will say this one more time. My references are to certain scientist and organizations, namely CRU, IPCC and those players attached with those groups. Now, if you can't separate who I am talking about, I'm sorry. I don't owe you a third explanation.

1014 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:14:54pm

re: #983 LudwigVanQuixote

Uhhh yes I complained about violating our law and principles like any real American would. That is why I pointed out that your views are like the ones they have in North Korea, and that simple fact, the Norks do love to torture (just like you think it is a good thing) you took as an insult...

I see, waterboarding is equivalent to ripping the limbs off prisoners by dogs.

Nice.

1015 jaunte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:15:02pm

"And I would just say that we have to think about tone. It's not just on your side, by the way -- it's on our side, as well. This is part of what's happened in our politics, where we demonize the other side so much that when it comes to actually getting things done, it becomes tough to do."
-- Barack Obama

1016 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:15:21pm

re: #1009 LudwigVanQuixote

Good on you!

I will give you the same answer...

I will say this one more time. My references are to certain scientist and organizations, namely CRU, IPCC and those players attached with those groups. Now, if you can't separate who I am talking about, I'm sorry. I don't owe you a third explanation.

1017 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:15:25pm

If the thread continues in this vein, it's in danger of becoming personal.

1018 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:15:28pm

re: #1004 LudwigVanQuixote

Look you are getting in the middle of a long standing feud. I have no beef with you.

you will, given enough time...you need to chill out....cut out some paper dolls or something....relax

1019 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:15:41pm

re: #1005 Bagua

Weather, not climate.

Actually, it's chemicals in the river, power stations and factories. You can check.

1020 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:15:46pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

Mandy don't even after a side conversation about me being a real scientist or not... fuck you bitch.

A side conversation, interesting.

Everytime somebody on this board asks about your absence, Iceweasel answers for you.

Ludwig, seriously, either you are being had or you really need think for yourself, number one or go to a doctor.

1021 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:15:58pm

re: #996 marjoriemoon

I'll come back later.

Hang in the there, Ludwig. A lot of this is baiting you.

I recall not that long ago, perhaps 2-3 of the AGW supports were the subject of pile on's and massive down dings, so things are improving.

1022 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:16:06pm

re: #1003 Bagua

Look I do not want to talk to you ever again. I detest you. I read what you wrote scumbag. It spoke for itself and your two steps will not help you. Which part of fuck off and die in a creative, invasive and horrible manner some place far away from me did you miss? I am not threatening you. I am not interested in seeking you out. Have no worries, but if I did know you and you were on fire, I might be convinced to put you out by pissing on you rather than looking for marshmallows.

1023 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:16:43pm

re: #1016 Walter L. Newton

I will give you the same answer...

I will say this one more time. My references are to certain scientist and organizations, namely CRU, IPCC and those players attached with those groups. Now, if you can't separate who I am talking about, I'm sorry. I don't owe you a third explanation.

Actually Ludwig, since you claim that you have problems with the politics of the IPCC, then you and I are in agreement about the IPCC and it's High Priest Pachauri.

1024 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:16:53pm

re: #1014 NJDhockeyfan

I see, waterboarding is equivalent to ripping the limbs off prisoners by dogs.

Nice.

I'm not even going to get into this with you again. You know exactly where I stand on it.

1025 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:17:27pm

re: #998 LudwigVanQuixote

I know it is.

AGW lacks a good popularizer. It needs its own Carl Sagan.

1026 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:17:41pm

re: #1017 The Sanity Inspector

If the thread continues in this vein, it's in danger of becoming personal.

well, it's one big 'family' right?....

puke me

1027 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:17:52pm

re: #987 keloyd

If you loosen up on the standards for accuracy, you can go back much further with (our word of the day!) proxies like how often certain prominent rivers froze. The Danube never freezes today. In Roman times, we know when it did because Germanic hordes would run across it and kill people and break stuff. Same for the Thames*, same for lots of civilized places. Result? - Roman times were cooler than today. the 1000s to 1300's were very warm, then something like the 16th to 18th C were unusually cool, and THOSE swings were bigger than the slow and steady warming trend today, iirc.

*ah, just looked up on Wiki, they straightened, deepened, and narrowed the Thames in London, making it harder to freeze mid 19th C, but the records before that are good - impossible to misinterpret, skew, or spin.

Yes, that is what the science is all about. The phony part is when they claim to be able to reconstruct to a resolution of 1/10th of a degree based upon rough proxies, or extrapolate regional events to a global temperature.

Notice that when the result was warm, such as the medieval warming period, it is dismissed as a regional phenomena. But when the result supports the AGW meme, it is suddenly a global proxy to look at ice cores from one area or tree rings from one peninsular. That is where it all falls apart.

1028 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:18:00pm

re: #1017 The Sanity Inspector

If the thread continues in this vein, it's in danger of becoming personal.

It passed that point a long way back. This subject is intensely personal to several of the posters.

1029 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:18:06pm

re: #1023 Walter L. Newton

Actually Ludwig, since you claim that you have problems with the politics of the IPCC, then you and I are in agreement about the IPCC and it's High Priest Pachauri.

No, not at all Walter. Please stop redefining yourself. I have been saying for over a year that the report was watered down. I have posted fact after fact to back that assertion and you are claiming that the report was watered up. They are not equivalent positions at all.

1030 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:18:10pm

re: #1025 The Sanity Inspector

AGW lacks a good popularizer. It needs its own Carl Sagan.

It has had Dr. Rajendra Pachauri and the IPCC for years.

1031 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:18:30pm

re: #1017 The Sanity Inspector

If the thread continues in this vein, it's in danger of becoming personal.

That is the funniest comment of the week!

1032 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:19:08pm

re: #1004 LudwigVanQuixote

Look you are getting in the middle of a long standing feud. I have no beef with you.

I am certainly having a beef with your behavior tonight, and I am allowed to have an opinion just as folks are wont to do when trollish behavior erupts.

1033 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:19:10pm

Holycrap.....Ludwig, I simply must stay it: There is something terribly wrong in your aggression. When folks feel comfortable with what-they-think-they-know....they rarely feel threatened by disagreement. And those that disagree with you are not lying, they simply do not share your thoughts.

1034 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:19:23pm

re: #1022 LudwigVanQuixote

Look I do not want to talk to you ever again. I detest you. I read what you wrote scumbag. It spoke for itself and your two steps will not help you. Which part of fuck off and die in a creative, invasive and horrible manner some place far away from me did you miss? I am not threatening you. I am not interested in seeking you out. Have no worries, but if I did know you and you were on fire, I might be convinced to put you out by pissing on you rather than looking for marshmallows.

I've had my runs ins with a Lizard or two, but there is no excuse for that sort of comment, no matter your frustration.

1035 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:19:39pm

re: #1020 littleugly

A side conversation, interesting.

Everytime somebody on this board asks about your absence, Iceweasel answers for you.

Ludwig, seriously, either you are being had or you really need think for yourself, number one or go to a doctor.

Look troll, you really are a creature on 2.0. the more you make yourself known the more you will be seen and the sooner you will be banned.

Say hi to the rodent for me ;)

1036 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:19:58pm

re: #1029 LudwigVanQuixote

No, not at all Walter. Please stop redefining yourself. I have been saying for over a year that the report was watered down. I have posted fact after fact to back that assertion and you are claiming that the report was watered up. They are not equivalent positions at all.

So, you are saying the AR4 report is deficient, the facts and figures are stated on the downside of the facts... explain. Honest question.

1037 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:20:02pm

OK, Ludwig says the temperature data used to calculate AGW goes back 300 years. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

So using data taken from .000006667% of the age of the earth we can confidently calculate the normal temperature of the earth and if its off by a fraction of a degree then it's caused by humans.

This is why I am a skeptic. It doesn't make sense.

1038 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:20:07pm

re: #1022 LudwigVanQuixote

How can a "scientist" become so enraged over anonymous comments on a blog? Its just dots on a screen dude. You are taking this way too far, and making it personal when it need not be.

I'm also starting to doubt your credentials.

1039 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:20:25pm

re: #1034 avanti

I've had my runs ins with a Lizard or two, but there is no excuse for that sort of comment, no matter your frustration.

He called me a kapo after defending the lie that Jews own the banks.

Fuck him sideways.

1040 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:20:26pm

The issues with the IPCC AR4 is that it is sexed up with alarmist exaggerations, not that it is 'watered down'.

1041 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:20:33pm

re: #971 Bagua

Yes, and some were in Fahrenheit, not Celsius, and measured to full degrees, not tenth of a degree.

And again, there were some temperature reading as far back as 1691 in England, but that is regional, the accepted quasi-global record starts about 1850, and even that is quasi. There are many that dispute if we are able to measure an accurate global temperature today because of the chaotic nature of the weather.

So, basically, no global warming, it was all made up, there's no way to be sure, and anyway, India needs to burn fossil fuels. Gotcha.

1042 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:21:32pm

re: #1013 Walter L. Newton

I will say this one more time. My references are to certain scientist and organizations, namely CRU, IPCC and those players attached with those groups. Now, if you can't separate who I am talking about, I'm sorry. I don't owe you a third explanation.

No your statements were about the science. Man up.

1043 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:21:38pm

re: #1027 Bagua

Bagua, may I please suggest that you head upstairs. It would help lower the hostility level. Let Walter and Ludwig talk about AGW. I know you mean well, but right now you're inflamming things, even if through no fault of your own.

1044 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:21:53pm

re: #1037 NJDhockeyfan

OK, Ludwig says the temperature data used to calculate AGW goes back 300 years. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

So using data taken from .000006667% of the age of the earth we can confidently calculate the normal temperature of the earth and if its off by a fraction of a degree then it's caused by humans.

This is why I am a skeptic. It doesn't make sense.

Well actually we have geological data that goes back billions of years. However, if you actually read the science you would not need the whole Earth to look at for it's whole history. If you understand that CO2 is a GHG and there is a lot more of it, the warming follows. Why do you not get that? What is so hard to understand?

1045 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:22:05pm

re: #1040 Bagua

The issues with the IPCC AR4 is that it is sexed up with alarmist exaggerations, not that it is 'watered down'.

Ludwig says it was watered down. I really want to know if he means that and does he think that the figures and facts in the AR4 need to be revised upward.

1046 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:22:16pm

re: #1039 LudwigVanQuixote

He called me a kapo after defending the lie that Jews own the banks.

Fuck him sideways.

What's your excuse for calling Mandy a bitch?

1047 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:22:48pm

re: #1038 Racer X

How can a "scientist" become so enraged over anonymous comments on a blog? Its just dots on a screen dude. You are taking this way too far, and making it personal when it need not be.

I'm also starting to doubt your credentials.

me too....he's a fake

1048 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:22:56pm

re: #1028 Dark_Falcon

It passed that point a long way back. This subject is intensely personal to several of the posters.

*Wink*

1049 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:23:05pm

re: #1002 Walter L. Newton

Yes, we are FORCING him to insult and curse at everyone. give me a break.

Pure as the driven snow, you are.

1050 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:23:05pm

re: #1027 Bagua

Groupthink is a powerful thing, and most of us have only 2nd or 3rd hand access to real knowledge, so it's hypocrites like Gore for GW and parties with a dog in the fight like Exxon paying for AGW. The world would be a better place if people didn't care about stuff outside their control, the way we do with economics. Just let some people at the Fed do their thing, a few blogs and Ron Paul can blow off some steam, then the rest of us leave it to the experts.

1051 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:23:15pm

re: #1038 Racer X

How can a "scientist" become so enraged over anonymous comments on a blog? Its just dots on a screen dude. You are taking this way too far, and making it personal when it need not be.

I'm also starting to doubt your credentials.

X come on... you know full well that Walter and the Douche made this personal ages ago. So did Mandy and Satt and the Hockey boy. I am enraged because I am tired of being insulted by these losers.

1052 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:23:19pm

I would like to say, for the record, like anyone cares...

I am glad to see ludwig posting here again.

Glad also to see the "debate" resuming.
I DO wish it could be more civil, but if whaching is what it takes..
Whack away.

Still, PLEASE do give credit/Kudos to those Lizards with Science credentials. In some way, they have earned their scales...

1053 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:23:44pm

re: #1039 LudwigVanQuixote

He called me a kapo after defending the lie that Jews own the banks.

Fuck him sideways.

After you called me "scum", and attacked me as an antisemite based upon twisting my words when I was protesting against antisemitism. That behaviour or hating your own is exactly what the Kapo's did, they denied the basic humanity of thier fellow Jews.

However, I retract and apologise as I was being unfairly attacked, can you do the same so we can have civil discourse?

1054 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:23:49pm

re: #1046 NJDhockeyfan

What's your excuse for calling Mandy a bitch?

The fact that she is one...

Dude, don't think you aren't playing too.

1055 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:23:58pm

re: #1034 avanti

I've had my runs ins with a Lizard or two, but there is no excuse for that sort of comment, no matter your frustration.

Quite Concur.

1056 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:24:14pm

re: #1030 Walter L. Newton

It has had Dr. Rajendra Pachauri and the IPCC for years.

Which is why I say it needs a good....pause for effect...popularizer.

1057 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:25:19pm

re: #996 marjoriemoon

I'll come back later.

Hang in the there, Ludwig. A lot of this is baiting you.

The anklebiters are out in force tonight, for sure.

1058 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:25:24pm

re: #1049 SanFranciscoZionist

Pure as the driven snow, you are.

Walter has been very polite and patient tonight

1059 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:25:28pm

re: #1044 LudwigVanQuixote

Well actually we have geological data that goes back billions of years. However, if you actually read the science you would not need the whole Earth to look at for it's whole history. If you understand that CO2 is a GHG and there is a lot more of it, the warming follows. Why do you not get that? What is so hard to understand?

We are basing global warming on data collected in a blink of time and choosing what normal temps of the Earth should be. Not buying it.

1060 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:25:51pm

re: #1051 LudwigVanQuixote

X come on... you know full well that Walter and the Douche made this personal ages ago. So did Mandy and Satt and the Hockey boy. I am enraged because I am tired of being insulted by these losers.

Where have I insulted you about this subject?

For that matter, where have I claimed that you are not a scientist? I'd really like to know the answer to that.

1061 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:25:59pm

re: #1053 Bagua

After you called me "scum", and attacked me as an antisemite based upon twisting my words when I was protesting against antisemitism. That behaviour or hating your own is exactly what the Kapo's did, they denied the basic humanity of thier fellow Jews.

However, I retract and apologise as I was being unfairly attacked, can you do the same so we can have civil discourse?

No you used the last of my patience with you today. Which part of I never want to talk to you again did you miss. Don't address me. Go away. Fuck off and die.

When you post ies I will respond to the lies but not to you. I want to not talk to you at all.

You are scum. You are detestable. You area liar and a coward and a total shit. Every time you address me, I will remind you of those facts. Go away.

1062 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:26:42pm

re: #1042 Olsonist

No your statements were about the science. Man up.

I will say it a third time. For about 4 hours now, in a thread 4 thread back, and in this thread, I have been relating my conversation to the 4 articles I linked to, which deal mainly with the IPCC and the head of the IPCC and their chief scientist.

This is easily check by you if you care to look back through the threads.

So, when you see statements I have made about science, it is in this vein that I am addressing... my statements for the last 4 hours.

Just so you have this really clear, cause I know that reading is comprehension, I will say it to you again. I have no argument with the science of AGW, but I do have a problem with the IPCC, the CRU and the controversies that surround them. It is the process, procedure and protocol with in these two groups that I am questioning.

1063 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:26:54pm

re: #1051 LudwigVanQuixote

X come on... you know full well that Walter and the Douche made this personal ages ago. So did Mandy and Satt and the Hockey boy. I am enraged because I am tired of being insulted by these losers.

Walk away from it, man.

Life is too short to get your temper flared up so much by people you will never know in real life. Life is too short. You are smart, but damn I cannot recall ever seeing someone get so worked up over this issue. Be confident in yourself. Losing your temper, so badly, makes you look weak.

Sorry man. It had to be said.

1064 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:26:55pm

re: #1043 Dark_Falcon

Bagua, may I please suggest that you head upstairs. It would help lower the hostility level. Let Walter and Ludwig talk about AGW. I know you mean well, but right now you're inflamming things, even if through no fault of your own.

I was greatly and dishonestly attacked today, in the most slanderous of methods. Yet I am not angry and am stating fact and science. The one being bullied does not have to leave because the bully is present. I have a voice here as well and I'll not be silenced and called 'scum', 'dirtbag' and attacked in my absence as was happening when I arrived.

I am part of the AGW discussion here, as is Walter and everyone else with a registration.

1065 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:27:03pm

re: #1014 NJDhockeyfan

I see, waterboarding is equivalent to ripping the limbs off prisoners by dogs.

Nice.

I wonder how long we could stretch that one out. You know, to the point where dogs ripping off limbs is OK, because the NORKs are roasting babies alive.

1066 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:27:36pm

re: #882 LudwigVanQuixote

Woah wait a minute I did reply to that. I mentioned saturation. It is possible to break a buffer system. This is discussed in the links I previously gave you. You must have missed my first reply.

OK, I've stepped back and looked through your links. I couldn't find the one that discusses CO2 saturation and the demise of plankton. However, it's late and I could have missed it. Could you please point me in the right direction?

1067 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:27:41pm

re: #1037 NJDhockeyfan

OK, Ludwig says the temperature data used to calculate AGW goes back 300 years. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

So using data taken from .000006667% of the age of the earth we can confidently calculate the normal temperature of the earth and if its off by a fraction of a degree then it's caused by humans.

This is why I am a skeptic. It doesn't make sense.

I should not even comment, but when the earth cools or warms, we should try and find out why. The only reasonable reason for the greatest warming trend in a 1000 years or more is CO2 increases. With a very good record of temp trends since the advent of the industrial revolution and it's contribution to green house gases, we can be pretty confident of the cause and effect.
We can debate around the edges of the debate by talking about a error here and there, or a tend to alarmism, but that's a side show to the main event.

1068 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:28:02pm

re: #1051 LudwigVanQuixote

X come on... you know full well that Walter and the Douche made this personal ages ago. So did Mandy and Satt and the Hockey boy. I am enraged because I am tired of being insulted by these losers.

it's not an insult to point out you are not important anymore....happens to everybody sooner or later, but you deal with it extraordinarily bad imo...I don't think you are who you claim to be because of your behavior here

1069 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:28:02pm

re: #1059 NJDhockeyfan

We are basing global warming on data collected in a blink of time and choosing what normal temps of the Earth should be. Not buying it.

Uhuh.. fine so since a bullet shoots in the blink of an eye, is momentum no longer conserved? The fact is that we have nearly doubled the CO2 in the atmosphere.. how can that have no effect? Not buying it, or simply being stupid and refusing to think?

1070 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:28:11pm

re: #1058 albusteve

Walter has been very polite and patient tonight

re: #584 Walter L. Newton

Who the hell are you? Fuck off jerk.

Hmmm...

1071 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:28:17pm

re: #1057 Jimmah

The anklebiters are out in force tonight, for sure.

Ankle biters, hell! We've got airstrikes with napalm canisters tonight. How are you, Jimmah?

1072 keloyd  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:28:37pm

Hey Bagua, I think LudwigvanQuixote has a mancrush on you, if you are in fact a dude. Remember, no means no, but sometimes no means ask again soon.

1073 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:28:52pm

re: #1051 LudwigVanQuixote

X come on... you know full well that Walter and the Douche made this personal ages ago. So did Mandy and Satt and the Hockey boy. I am enraged because I am tired of being insulted by these losers.

AGW boy translation:

disagreeing with him = insults

1074 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:28:53pm

re: #1064 Bagua

I was greatly and dishonestly attacked today, in the most slanderous of methods. Yet I am not angry and am stating fact and science. The one being bullied does not have to leave because the bully is present. I have a voice here as well and I'll not be silenced and called 'scum', 'dirtbag' and attacked in my absence as was happening when I arrived.

I am part of the AGW discussion here, as is Walter and everyone else with a registration.

No asshole you lied repeatedly and got called on it and then you insulted beyond the point of being forgiven ever. Go away.

1075 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:29:28pm

re: #1073 NJDhockeyfan

AGW boy translation:

disagreeing with him = insults

Hockey boy translation, anything to avoid the topic of the science and divert it to me = actually talking science.

pathetic.

1076 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:29:28pm

re: #1061 LudwigVanQuixote

No you used the last of my patience with you today. Which part of I never want to talk to you again did you miss. Don't address me. Go away. Fuck off and die.

When you post ies I will respond to the lies but not to you. I want to not talk to you at all.

You are scum. You are detestable. You area liar and a coward and a total shit. Every time you address me, I will remind you of those facts. Go away.

so you want a divorce....is that it?

1077 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:29:35pm

re: #1034 avanti

I've had my runs ins with a Lizard or two, but there is no excuse for that sort of comment, no matter your frustration.

That's very Ghandi-like of you, but the person Ludwig is addressing called him a kapo earlier tonight, and instead of apologising for it, sought to justify it.

1078 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:29:48pm

re: #1058 albusteve

Walter has been very polite and patient tonight

Lovely.

1079 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:29:52pm

re: #1054 LudwigVanQuixote

The fact that she is one...

Dude, don't think you aren't playing too.

What am I playing AGW boy?

1080 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:29:58pm

re: #1076 albusteve

so you want a divorce...is that it?

Something like that. I want that piece of filth to never address me again.

1081 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:30:01pm

re: #1061 LudwigVanQuixote

No you used the last of my patience with you today. Which part of I never want to talk to you again did you miss. Don't address me. Go away. Fuck off and die.

When you post ies I will respond to the lies but not to you. I want to not talk to you at all.

You are scum. You are detestable. You area liar and a coward and a total shit. Every time you address me, I will remind you of those facts. Go away.

No one else here talks like this so repeatedly and gets away with it, no-one.

For my part Ludwig, I certainly don't wish you any harm, and I respect you as a human being, and someone I've had many friendly conversations in the past and agreed with 95% of the time. I regret that you act this way an hope you will see the light and become a mench.

1082 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:30:04pm

re: #1070 Olsonist

Hmmm...

toward Lug....get it?

1083 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:30:22pm

re: #1070 Olsonist

Hmmm...

That was not said to Ludwig. And I apologized to that person for my remark, I thought he was a troll and jumped to fast. You really need to up your reading comprehension, or at least you analytical skill set.

1084 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:30:32pm

re: #1074 LudwigVanQuixote

Would you answer my No. 1060?

1085 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:30:39pm

re: #1079 NJDhockeyfan

What am I playing AGW boy?

Umm being a jerk. Come on you know full well what you are up to. You can fuck off too. Feel better now?

1086 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:31:00pm

Tiger Woods ruined his family life and possibly his career, chasing after the kind of love I come home to every evening. My marital bed awaits, and so I bid you all bon soir.

1087 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:31:11pm

re: #1081 Bagua

No one else here talks like this so repeatedly and gets away with it, no-one.

For my part Ludwig, I certainly don't wish you any harm, and I respect you as a human being, and someone I've had many friendly conversations in the past and agreed with 95% of the time. I regret that you act this way an hope you will see the light and become a mench.

Don't talk to me. GO away.

1088 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:31:13pm

And, again.

1089 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:31:33pm

re: #1080 LudwigVanQuixote

Something like that. I want that piece of filth to never address me again.

When Jimmah tells ice about this, she will be extremely disappointed in your word choice.

1090 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:31:45pm

re: #1086 The Sanity Inspector

Tiger Woods ruined his family life and possibly his career, chasing after the kind of love I come home to every evening. My marital bed awaits, and so I bid you all bon soir.

I'd up-ding you if I could find my buttons.

1091 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:31:45pm

re: #1078 SanFranciscoZionist

Lovely.

a thing of beauty...one for the books I think

1092 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:31:58pm

re: #1046 NJDhockeyfan

What's your excuse for calling Mandy a bitch?

The same reason I was called worse in the past, frustration. If you recall, some believed that it was unlikely that I was a vet and served since I was obviously a commie traitor. That sort of crap is now mostly history, but both sides of this thread have slipped off that wagon.

1093 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:32:27pm

re: #1071 Dark_Falcon

Ankle biters, hell! We've got airstrikes with napalm canisters tonight. How are you, Jimmah?

Fine DF. How about yourself?

1094 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:32:28pm

re: #1089 Silvergirl

When Jimmah tells ice about this, she will be extremely disappointed in your word choice.

ahahaha!...good one...FILTH!

1095 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:32:30pm

re: #1084 MandyManners

Would you answer my No. 1060?

No you didn't say I was not a scientist, but you have jumped on the bandwagon every time since we argued about torture. Admit it. It's been personal with you for some time.

1096 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:33:00pm

re: #1090 MandyManners

I'd up-ding you if I could find my buttons.

Try reloading the page. Sometimes the site abruptly logs me out, maybe that's what's happened on your end.

1097 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:33:13pm

re: #1092 avanti

The same reason I was called worse in the past, frustration. If you recall, some believed that it was unlikely that I was a vet and served since I was obviously a commie traitor. That sort of crap is now mostly history, but both sides of this thread have slipped off that wagon.

Really, it appears that I am slated for one side of the thread, where did I speak to Ludwig in the sort of manner you are talking about? Hop lively... I await your answer.

1098 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:33:17pm

re: #1072 keloyd

Hey Bagua, I think LudwigvanQuixote has a mancrush on you, if you are in fact a dude. Remember, no means no, but sometimes no means ask again soon.

Well, we had many hours of friendly conversation in the past, and I've supported him on 95% of the AGW stuff, still do. He just can't stand the fact that I won't go along with the 5% I find alarmist and unsupported by science.

1099 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:33:30pm

re: #1089 Silvergirl

When Jimmah tells ice about this, she will be extremely disappointed in your word choice.

What? LOL I am not Jimmah or Ice. They are friends, but I assure you they would say similar about that person.

1100 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:33:50pm

re: #1087 LudwigVanQuixote

Don't talk to me. GO away.

jilted lover syndrome...GO AWAY!......COME BACK!

1101 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:34:06pm

re: #1072 keloyd

Hey Bagua, I think LudwigvanQuixote has a mancrush on you, if you are in fact a dude. Remember, no means no, but sometimes no means ask again soon.

Why did you have to go there... that was really uncalled for.

1102 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:34:57pm

re: #1095 LudwigVanQuixote

No you didn't say I was not a scientist, but you have jumped on the bandwagon every time since we argued about torture. Admit it. It's been personal with you for some time.

so you lied?....scientists lie?

1103 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:35:09pm

re: #1077 Jimmah

That's very Ghandi-like of you, but the person Ludwig is addressing called him a kapo earlier tonight, and instead of apologising for it, sought to justify it.

Responding in kind to name calling is so first grade and has little to do with Ghandi.

1104 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:35:12pm

re: #1101 LudwigVanQuixote

Why did you have to go there... that was really uncalled for.

Am I the only one on this thread that hasn't called you some sort of name or cursed at you... I've done nothing more than disagree with you, yet you treat me with such hatred... you're hurting my feelings.

1105 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:35:42pm

re: #1087 LudwigVanQuixote

Don't talk to me. GO away.

Who made you the boss here? I have the same right to post as anyone else. Calm down and stop the frothing and we can discuss the actual issues.

1106 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:35:57pm

re: #1092 avanti

Avanti, I commend you for keeping your cool when you first arrived. Many here were totally mean and rude to you (myself included - I have apologized to you). How you responded was 180º different than how LVQ is dealing with this. You showed nothing but class. You are a good man.

Much respect.

1107 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:36:12pm

re: #1100 albusteve

jilted lover syndrome...GO AWAY!...COME BACK!

No not really. I honestly just don't want to have to deal with his shit anymore.

But I'm sure you think that's funny. Fuck you too.

1108 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:36:24pm

what a hilarious thread!...MAN!...I'm glad I stayed around...Lug, you've been incomparable!

1109 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:36:48pm

re: #1101 LudwigVanQuixote

So, back to a science question, and I am honestly asking this question (this one for the second time)... you consider the AR4 to be watered down. Does that mean you would like the see the science in that paper revised upward, so to speak?

1110 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:37:15pm

re: #1097 Walter L. Newton

Really, it appears that I am slated for one side of the thread, where did I speak to Ludwig in the sort of manner you are talking about? Hop lively... I await your answer.

Never said you did. I'm not happy about Ludwig's behavior, or a few others, even if agree agree with his side of the discussion.

1111 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:37:16pm

re: #1105 Bagua

Who made you the boss here? I have the same right to post as anyone else. Calm down and stop the frothing and we can discuss the actual issues.

Don't address me? Everytime you do, I will simply respond that the reason you are not to address me is because you are a lying, scumbag. Which part of I do not want to talk to you did you miss?

1112 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:37:42pm

re: #1104 Walter L. Newton

Am I the only one on this thread that hasn't called you some sort of name or cursed at you... I've done nothing more than disagree with you, yet you treat me with such hatred... you're hurting my feelings.

not a popular notion, but I submit Walter deserves a COOKIE!

1113 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:37:49pm

re: #1093 Jimmah

Fine DF. How about yourself?

I'm in decent shape. I've started doing my taxes tonight, though I won't be done before tomorrow. Sales have been good this weekend, but I need a good Sunday to end the month on a decent note.

1114 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:37:50pm

re: #888 keloyd

As I understand the rambling dualing links, tree rings are the proxy. We want to know the temp, we can only measure tree rings, affected by temp (and rainfall, and whether another tree nearby grew and put it in the shade, and termites, and volcanoes.) An honest scientist can tease the truth out of vague and mischevious data. Maybe in the Tundra, it's always moist, and you take the average of numerous trees, so pretty much the temperature is all that affects average tree ring size.

/not an environmental scientist
//passable statistician
///certain that the globe is warming
///agnostic on our role, causality

Heh, close but reverse the first two. I am an environmental scientist but not so much on statistics.

1115 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:38:07pm

re: #1109 Walter L. Newton

So, back to a science question, and I am honestly asking this question (this one for the second time)... you consider the AR4 to be watered down. Does that mean you would like the see the science in that paper revised upward, so to speak?

Well Walter, since I have already answered that in detail for you at least five times with the papers to back it up, why not read that? I am very tired of your nonsense.

1116 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:38:34pm

Anklebiters meaning wingnuts who only ever express themselves aggressively or forcefully when in the company of a mob; without that mob, they post a silly video or just comment on how peeved they are, and bugger off into the night like the utter cowards they are.

Been a lot of that recently.

1117 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:38:44pm

re: #1099 LudwigVanQuixote

What? LOL I am not Jimmah or Ice. They are friends, but I assure you they would say similar about that person.

Sure enough, now everybody it is written, please, lay off, the guy is on the verge.

1118 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:39:12pm

re: #1107 LudwigVanQuixote

No not really. I honestly just don't want to have to deal with his shit anymore.

But I'm sure you think that's funny. Fuck you too.

I've considered you no more than a clown for months...you can't touch me, but I'll consider an apology if you get around to it....

1119 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:39:22pm

re: #1112 albusteve

not a popular notion, but I submit Walter deserves a COOKIE!

Oh shit! Thanks for the reminder - I got a carrot cake cookie in the other room with my name on it.

1120 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:39:27pm

re: #1117 littleugly

Sure enough, now everybody it is written, please, lay off, the guy is on the verge.

Snork is that you?

1121 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:39:55pm

re: #1118 albusteve

I've considered you no more than a clown for months...you can't touch me, but I'll consider an apology if you get around to it...

Or you can not talk to me either. You are pretty pathetic yourself.

1122 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:40:38pm

re: #1115 LudwigVanQuixote

Well Walter, since I have already answered that in detail for you at least five times with the papers to back it up, why not read that? I am very tired of your nonsense.

Ludwig, I am asking for you OWN opinion, as a scientist, since you consider the science in the AR$ to be watered down, as you said, I ask, would you like to see the science, as presented in the AR4 to be revised upward?

Why can't you answer for yourself?

1123 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:41:12pm

re: #1108 albusteve

what a hilarious thread!...MAN!...I'm glad I stayed around...Lug, you've been incomparable!

Heh. I've been laughing my ass off all night.

1124 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:41:16pm

re: #1105 Bagua

Who made you the boss here? I have the same right to post as anyone else. Calm down and stop the frothing and we can discuss the actual issues.

Bagua, you can discuss the issue, but not with Ludwig. He's seriously angry with you right now, and anything you say to him just makes it worse. Please don't respond to him ask him anything right now. You need to give him at least a week before addressing him again. Even you did not mean to offend him, he is offended and it will be a long time before he stops being angry. For now just leave Ludwig alone.

1125 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:41:36pm

re: #1095 LudwigVanQuixote

No you didn't say I was not a scientist, but you have jumped on the bandwagon every time since we argued about torture. Admit it. It's been personal with you for some time.

Per your No. 894, Mandy don't even after a side conversation about me being a real scientist or not...

Now, which is it?

As for your accusation that it's personal for me, even if it were, have I told you to fuck off or called you names?

1126 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:42:00pm

re: #1117 littleugly

Sure enough, now everybody it is written, please, lay off, the guy is on the verge.

so what?...get off the net then

1127 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:42:07pm

re: #1096 The Sanity Inspector

Try reloading the page. Sometimes the site abruptly logs me out, maybe that's what's happened on your end.

Reloading takes forever in a thread of this length.

1128 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:42:14pm

re: #1077 Jimmah

That's very Ghandi-like of you, but the person Ludwig is addressing called him a kapo earlier tonight, and instead of apologising for it, sought to justify it.

After he called me 'scum' and and worse. However, I have appologised twice, why are you on attack jimmah? (As usual)

Also, I did not call him a Kapo, I said:


You are showing great hostility and avarice in making slanderous accusations.

You are acting like a Kapo, not a mench.

1129 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:42:18pm

re: #1103 avanti

Responding in kind to name calling is so first grade and has little to do with Ghandi.

I'd much rather things were kept civil here avanti - but looking at the threads tonight, and the amount of baiting from the wingnut fraternity here, I'd say it was gloves off time.

1130 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:42:20pm

re: #1122 Walter L. Newton

Ludwig, I am asking for you OWN opinion, as a scientist, since you consider the science in the AR$ to be watered down, as you said, I ask, would you like to see the science, as presented in the AR4 to be revised upward?

Why can't you answer for yourself?

Oh for God's sake, could you be any more insulting. As I said to you earlier, just today even.

The IPCC needs to account for nonlinear melts, ocean anoxia and the methane in Siberia and Canada.

1131 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:42:28pm

re: #1120 LudwigVanQuixote

Snork is that you?

Let me find out. I'm going to see what those assholes are up to.

1132 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:42:52pm

re: #1124 Dark_Falcon

Bagua, you can discuss the issue, but not with Ludwig. He's seriously angry with you right now, and anything you say to him just makes it worse. Please don't respond to him ask him anything right now. You need to give him at least a week before addressing him again. Even you did not mean to offend him, he is offended and it will be a long time before he stops being angry. For now just leave Ludwig alone.

DK... he is seriously cursing and calling out everyone, from Mandy to me. If he has issues with Bagua, fine, but he is talking it out on everyone. That's fair, that's right?

1133 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:43:11pm

re: #1123 NJDhockeyfan

Heh. I've been laughing my ass off all night.

Really when not whining about me? Oh fuck you seriously.

1134 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:43:46pm

re: #1132 Walter L. Newton

DK... he is seriously cursing and calling out everyone, from Mandy to me. If he has issues with Bagua, fine, but he is talking it out on everyone. That's fair, that's right?

No my issues with you have been well stated. Walter read the science.

1135 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:43:51pm

re: #1121 LudwigVanQuixote

Or you can not talk to me either. You are pretty pathetic yourself.

just man up and apologize...I may forgive you and give you one of those absurd net hugs...aren't I worth it?....I'm albusteve and I want you to like me!

1136 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:44:10pm

re: #1129 Jimmah

I'd much rather things were kept civil here avanti - but looking at the threads tonight, and the amount of baiting from the wingnut fraternity here, I'd say it was gloves off time.

Ohh hell yes.

1137 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:44:26pm

re: #1129 Jimmah

I'd much rather things were kept civil here avanti - but looking at the threads tonight, and the amount of baiting from the wingnut fraternity here, I'd say it was gloves off time.

It's everyone's fault but Ludwig's. Right?

1138 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:44:27pm

re: #1130 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh for God's sake, could you be any more insulting. As I said to you earlier, just today even.

The IPCC needs to account for nonlinear melts, ocean anoxia and the methane in Siberia and Canada.

Yes I could be, but you are doing fine for now.

So.. the IPCC science is flawed? I thought it was all peer-reviewed. Are the scientist associated with the AR4 and the IPCC deniers then... what's the problem?

1139 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:44:29pm

....this thread reminds me of family reunions when i was little. Humid, buggy and run amok with fictitious fond familial connections, plus really bad melting pies made by old, blind aunts

1140 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:44:32pm

re: #1135 albusteve

just man up and apologize...I may forgive you and give you one of those absurd net hugs...aren't I worth it?...I'm albusteve and I want you to like me!

no I don't. I think you are a callous ass.

1141 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:44:54pm

re: #1106 Racer X

Avanti, I commend you for keeping your cool when you first arrived. Many here were totally mean and rude to you (myself included - I have apologized to you). How you responded was 180º different than how LVQ is dealing with this. You showed nothing but class. You are a good man.

Much respect.

Racer, no need to apologize again, many were and are angry about my politics and I understood the lapses of decorum. I am naive enough to believe we can stay civil, no matter the strength of opinions. I'm honestly disappointed with Ludwig, and wish he would step back a bit. I think he has his science right, but needs to control the tenor of his presentation. Walter and me have had more then a few little baiting sessions but and forth, but I hope we still respect each other.

1142 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:45:26pm

re: #1137 NJDhockeyfan

It's everyone's fault but Ludwig's. Right?

Uhh well you jump on me and I give as good as I get. I just don't whine about it like a sissy the way you do.

1143 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:45:47pm

re: #1133 LudwigVanQuixote

Really when not whining about me? Oh fuck you seriously.

I have a close friend who is a psychiatrist. He would have a field day with you.

1144 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:46:12pm

re: #1115 LudwigVanQuixote

Well Walter, since I have already answered that in detail for you at least five times with the papers to back it up, why not read that? I am very tired of your nonsense.

but you didn't answer the temp/grid/history question from way back...if you claim you have, you're simply lying and no respectable scientist would lie....which is it?

1145 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:46:20pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

Mandy don't even after a side conversation about me being a real scientist or not... fuck you bitch.

I'm trying to catch up because I'm way behind because I actually went back to look at some of your links. I'm not going to respond the way that I wanted to when I started this response, but your response reinforces why many have no respect or trust for the IPCC scientists or their conclusions.

1146 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:46:26pm

re: #1128 Bagua

After all the baiting you have done of Ludwig tonight in advance of those comments? And earlier this week when he wasn't even here - after your complaining then, and again tonight about talking about people when they are not around? This is hypocrisy on stilts.

And you still think it wise or justified to go there - to use that word?

Jesus christ.

1147 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:46:48pm

re: #1125 MandyManners

Per your No. 894, Mandy don't even after a side conversation about me being a real scientist or not...

Now, which is it?

As for your accusation that it's personal for me, even if it were, have I told you to fuck off or called you names?

*crickets*

1148 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:46:57pm

re: #1129 Jimmah

I'd much rather things were kept civil here avanti - but looking at the threads tonight, and the amount of baiting from the wingnut fraternity here, I'd say it was gloves off time.

That's funny, you are the king of baiting and attacks my MeanBat™ friend!

Always on the attack you are. You've been attacking Mandy for ages, and now I'm on your hit list. Don't pretend to be Mr Civility, you're not fooling anyone Jimmah.

1149 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:47:44pm

re: #1099 LudwigVanQuixote

What? LOL I am not Jimmah or Ice. They are friends, but I assure you they would say similar about that person.

Iceweasel's posts are quite well worded. There are others on the same subject, but three is a nice number. She also stated that the term filth should be reserved for child rapists and killers.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

1150 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:47:51pm

re: #1141 avanti

Racer, no need to apologize again, many were and are angry about my politics and I understood the lapses of decorum. I am naive enough to believe we can stay civil, no matter the strength of opinions. I'm honestly disappointed with Ludwig, and wish he would step back a bit. I think he has his science right, but needs to control the tenor of his presentation. Walter and me have had more then a few little baiting sessions but and forth, but I hope we still respect each other.

Fair enough, it is past that though. It is long past that with Bagua. I am very serious. He used up the absolute last of my ability to tolerate him. If he addresses me he will get a stock response of why I am not interested in hearing from him.

As to Walter, he is a big boy. He is not so stupid as to not know the game he is playing poorly. He can look at the science or not. Since he chooses not to, he is simply being a troll. So be it.

1151 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:48:10pm

re: #1142 LudwigVanQuixote

Uhh well you jump on me and I give as good as I get. I just don't whine about it like a sissy the way you do.

Hahahahahahahaha! [inhale] hahahahahahahahahahaha!

You've been whining all night!

1152 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:48:39pm

re: #1145 Unakite

I'm trying to catch up because I'm way behind because I actually went back to look at some of your links. I'm not going to respond the way that I wanted to when I started this response, but your response reinforces why many have no respect or trust for the IPCC scientists or their conclusions.

Which is why I gave you links that were not from the IPCC. If you are going to make this about me and not about the data, you are not talking science. If you are a scientist, you know that.

1153 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:48:44pm

re: #1127 MandyManners

Reloading takes forever in a thread of this length.

seek help...there is just no excuse for that anymore...I'm flying along at light speed with Comcast cable, Firefox and 8 megs of memory....you can too, chica

1154 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:49:11pm

re: #1129 Jimmah

I'd much rather things were kept civil here avanti - but looking at the threads tonight, and the amount of baiting from the wingnut fraternity here, I'd say it was gloves off time.

And what... you play civility where... on TV or something. My goodness, the pot calling the kettle black.

1155 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:49:20pm

re: #1149 Silvergirl

Iceweasel's posts are quite well worded. There are others on the same subject, but three is a nice number. She also stated that the term filth should be reserved for child rapists and killers.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

OK I am somehow sure she will forgive me.

1156 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:49:47pm

re: #1129 Jimmah

I'd much rather things were kept civil here avanti - but looking at the threads tonight, and the amount of baiting from the wingnut fraternity here, I'd say it was gloves off time.

oh bullshit, you are one of the worst old lady gossip queens on the blog....who are you kidding?

1157 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:49:54pm

re: #1154 Walter L. Newton

And what... you play civility where... on TV or something. My goodness, the pot calling the kettle black.

It's as civil as you make it Walter. You pretend ignorance fools no one.

1158 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:50:02pm

re: #1153 albusteve

seek help...there is just no excuse for that anymore...I'm flying along at light speed with Comcast cable, Firefox and 8 megs of memory...you can too, chica

Me too, quad core, 64bit, firefox and even the longest threads load perfectly.

1159 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:50:21pm

*crickets*

1160 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:50:45pm

re: #1157 LudwigVanQuixote

It's as civil as you make it Walter. You pretend ignorance fools no one.

That was addressed to Jimmah, not to you.

1161 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:51:19pm

re: #1143 NJDhockeyfan

I have a close friend who is a psychiatrist. He would have a field day with you.

That's fine.. I have a close friend who has an IQ above room temperature... She and I are laughing at you right now... That make us even?

1162 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:51:57pm

re: #1136 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh hell yes.

Bullshit Ludwig. I voted for Obams because I believed him when he said you could disagree without being disagreeable. Imagine if Obama would have replied to being called a liar at that joint session by yelling back "Fuck you, asshole"
How many points would that add to his address ?

1163 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:52:09pm

re: #1141 avanti

Racer, no need to apologize again, many were and are angry about my politics and I understood the lapses of decorum. I am naive enough to believe we can stay civil, no matter the strength of opinions. I'm honestly disappointed with Ludwig, and wish he would step back a bit. I think he has his science right, but needs to control the tenor of his presentation. Walter and me have had more then a few little baiting sessions but and forth, but I hope we still respect each other.

I will gloat in the fact that I loved avanti from the moment I clicked on his avatar. I was new and didn't know he was the local pariah at the time and we got along well. I even defended him and got a few burn marks to show for it. It just took some time for people to come around. All's well that end's well.

1164 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:52:09pm

re: #1160 Walter L. Newton

That was addressed to Jimmah, not to you.

And yet my response is still accurate Walter. You can't start shit and then pretend you didn't. It's cowardly. It's the kind of thing Bagua would do.

1165 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:52:28pm

re: #1149 Silvergirl

Iceweasel's posts are quite well worded. There are others on the same subject, but three is a nice number. She also stated that the term filth should be reserved for child rapists and killers.

Agreed, and I supported Iceweasel on that thread for the same reason. We should not permit calling humans 'scum' and 'filth' regardless of their behaviour or their views on AGW. It is dehumanizing and leads to ugly extremes historically.

1166 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:52:29pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

Mandy don't even after a side conversation about me being a real scientist or not... fuck you bitch.

Mandy needs the mob. With the mob behind her, she's all "FUCK YOU" and "GO PISS UP A ROPE". According to wingnut logic, this makes her a 'tough contender'. Without the mob to back her up, she just slinks away into the night. Kinda sad, really, but that's her MO.

1167 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:52:36pm

re: #1149 Silvergirl

I objected to people using the term 'human filth' to apply to groups of individuals. Like someone in that thread was applying it to homosexuals as a group. You remember, don't you? You were defending that shit.

Nice to see you, silvergirl. Didn't have enough going on in this thread, so you felt like stirring up some shit and dragging me into it?

1168 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:53:29pm

re: #1146 Jimmah

After all the baiting you have done of Ludwig tonight in advance of those comments? And earlier this week when he wasn't even here - after your complaining then, and again tonight about talking about people when they are not around? This is hypocrisy on stilts.

And you still think it wise or justified to go there - to use that word?

Jesus christ.

what's JC got to do with it?....have you no respect for the Christians here to toss his name around in your phony frustration?

1169 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:53:43pm

re: #1167 iceweasel

I objected to people using the term 'human filth' to apply to groups of individuals. Like someone in that thread was applying it to homosexuals as a group. You remember, don't you? You were defending that shit.

Nice to see you, silvergirl. Didn't have enough going on in this thread, so you felt like stirring up some shit and dragging me into it?

Hello ice, how the hell are you?

1170 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:53:46pm

re: #1150 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough, it is past that though. It is long past that with Bagua. I am very serious. He used up the absolute last of my ability to tolerate him. If he addresses me he will get a stock response of why I am not interested in hearing from him.

As to Walter, he is a big boy. He is not so stupid as to not know the game he is playing poorly. He can look at the science or not. Since he chooses not to, he is simply being a troll. So be it.

Do what I did in the early days on here, just ignore your detractors and engage only those being reasonable.

1171 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:53:56pm

re: #1166 Jimmah

Really, a Perl script would do.

1172 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:54:27pm

re: #1148 Bagua

Oh yeah. Mandy never, ever, ever bullies anyone. What a crock.

1173 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:54:32pm

re: #1132 Walter L. Newton

DK... he is seriously cursing and calling out everyone, from Mandy to me. If he has issues with Bagua, fine, but he is talking it out on everyone. That's fair, that's right?

I was only trying to get Bagua to leave Ludwig along. I think Ludwig is throwing insults when he shouldn't be, but part of getting him to calm down is getting Bagua to leave him alone. I work in a store where cell phones are repaired, I know an irate person when I hear one. Sometimes you cannot talk to a person because they simply do not want to speak to you. When that happens you need to leave them alone. Anything you say to them will only make it worse.

1174 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:54:33pm

re: #1163 Silvergirl

I will gloat in the fact that I loved avanti from the moment I clicked on his avatar. I was new and didn't know he was the local pariah at the time and we got along well. I even defended him and got a few burn marks to show for it. It just took some time for people to come around. All's well that end's well.

Back in the day I used to get down-dinged for taking Avanti's side, he always struck me as reasonable and centrist, though he was considered ultra-liberal in those days.

1175 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:55:18pm

re: #1162 avanti

Bullshit Ludwig. I voted for Obams because I believed him when he said you could disagree without being disagreeable. Imagine if Obama would have replied to being called a liar at that joint session by yelling back "Fuck you, asshole"
How many points would that add to his address ?

Probably none, but I am not running for office. Either people look at the science or they refuse to. UIn the mean time, the wingnuts will rant either way and it is probably useful that they are at least publicly called stupid so that people don't think they are reasonable.

Pseudo science lives by expressing false hoods under the veneer of seeming reasonable and actually equal to real science. If more real scientists just looked at these freaks and said enough. You people are stupid freaks who have no more business talking science than a cat does talking algebra, they would not have any real traction. It is by playing nice and giving them an air of legitimacy that we lose the fight for the truth.

I bring the facts. I explain the facts and I call the morons morons.

1176 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:55:34pm

*crickets*

1177 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:55:45pm

re: #1174 Bagua

Back in the day I used to get down-dinged for taking Avanti's side, he always struck me as reasonable and centrist, though he was considered ultra-liberal in those days.

Ultra Liberal... hell, I think I called him a Communist. Avanti and I see eye to eye on more things than not.

1178 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:55:50pm

re: #1159 MandyManners

*crickets*

I know LVQ. I can vouch for the fact that he's a scientist.

I don't expect that to stop any of the wingnut wardance or freakout on him though.
Disgusting.

1179 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:56:05pm

re: #1161 LudwigVanQuixote

That's fine.. I have a close friend who has an IQ above room temperature... She and I are laughing at you right now... That make us even?

You friend must be so happy that you said her IQ is above room temperature. What a compliment!

1180 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:56:51pm

re: #1174 Bagua

Back in the day I used to get down-dinged for taking Avanti's side, he always struck me as reasonable and centrist, though he was considered ultra-liberal in those days.

Yeah, all the people now claiming they looooved avanti seem to forget they kept his karma negative until very recently. You being an exception.

1181 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:56:58pm

re: #1120 LudwigVanQuixote

Snork is that you?

Ludwig,
My nic has been littleugly for years, I am not a sock, never even considered registering one.
I post in spurts, otherwise I just link and lurk a bunch of times daily.
I admire your spirit, but have this funny feeling that you are being used.
I hope you did not give fodder to people that will at the drop of a hat use it against you.

Petri

1182 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:57:29pm

re: #1172 iceweasel

Oh yeah. Mandy never, ever, ever bullies anyone. What a crock.

I never said that, please don't put words into my mouth, I don't do that with you.

1183 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:57:37pm

Last time I heard this many crickets I had a box of them to hook on fishing pole.

1184 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:58:10pm

re: #1166 Jimmah

Mandy needs the mob. With the mob behind her, she's all "FUCK YOU" and "GO PISS UP A ROPE". According to wingnut logic, this makes her a 'tough contender'. Without the mob to back her up, she just slinks away into the night. Kinda sad, really, but that's her MO.

Mandy has moderated that sort behavior as the tone of LGF has moved a bit from the right. Give her credit for sticking around when others have bailed to the stalker blog. Mandy and me are 180 apart politically, but if we were all politically in step this would be one boring blog.

1185 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:58:18pm

re: #1178 iceweasel

I know LVQ. I can vouch for the fact that he's a scientist.

I don't expect that to stop any of the wingnut wardance or freakout on him though.
Disgusting.

and I can vouch for the fact that he's an asshole...he has his groupies but that means nothing to me...I have my own personal story...hahaha! what a bunch of butthurt losers eh?

1186 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:58:22pm

re: #1172 iceweasel

Ice how are you doing?

Just so you know, in addition to the normal lies about AGW and distortions about my credentials and science in general, the person had defended the notion of Jewish controlled banks and called me a kapo. He also used the phrase Loshan Ha Ra and made a point of trying to act all Jewish to mollify me while bringing up hate insults to the people.

He gets to be called filth right?

I mean I'll call him something else if you disagree... ;)

1187 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:58:26pm

re: #1178 iceweasel

I know LVQ. I can vouch for the fact that he's a scientist.

I don't expect that to stop any of the wingnut wardance or freakout on him though.
Disgusting.

Well, I'm not going to stop having problems with certain sectors of the AGW sphere, mainly the IPCC and the CRU. If you or Jimmah or Ludwig wants to call me a wingnut wardancer, have at it. Doesn't change the facts or my opinions on those two groups.

1188 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:59:04pm

re: #894 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #989 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #1022 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #1061 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #1111 LudwigVanQuixote

Ludwig, sometimes if people are pushing your buttons, you just need to step back and walk away for a bit. Bagua (among other people) and you may be having some serious disagreements (and his "kapo" comment was below the belt, frankly), but it doesn't justify the virulence of your responses.

In fact, it makes you look like a hot-headed asshole...and you can do better than that. As a matter of fact, there's quite a few people on this thread that just need to take a chill pill, breathe deeply, and calm the f**k down...

1189 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 9:59:17pm

re: #1180 iceweasel

Yeah, all the people now claiming they loooved avanti seem to forget they kept his karma negative until very recently. You being an exception.

Thank you for acknowledging that IceWeasel.

1190 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:00:21pm

re: #1185 albusteve

and I can vouch for the fact that he's an asshole...he has his groupies but that means nothing to me...I have my own personal story...hahaha! what a bunch of butthurt losers eh?

That's fine I don't think much of you either...

1191 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:00:53pm

re: #1182 Bagua

I never said that, please don't put words into my mouth, I don't do that with you.

You're right, you didn't say that. Here's what you said to Jimmah:

You've been attacking Mandy for ages

Sorry, but unless by attacking you mean 'pointing out when and where she's a bully' he hasn't been 'attacking' her.

Yes, I'm a little pissed off. This is the second time I come here today and find the usual fucking shitheads talking crap about me. Not you.

1192 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:01:32pm

re: #1163 Silvergirl

I will gloat in the fact that I loved avanti from the moment I clicked on his avatar. I was new and didn't know he was the local pariah at the time and we got along well. I even defended him and got a few burn marks to show for it. It just took some time for people to come around. All's well that end's well.

Yea, you Dark and a few others made be believe I should stick it out and I'm glad I did. That's one reason I'm upset when I see "my side" doing the same to my conservative friends.

1193 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:01:34pm

re: #1190 LudwigVanQuixote

That's fine I don't think much of you either...

just apologize and I promise I will like you and respect you...maybe

1194 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:01:59pm

re: #1188 talon_262


Ludwig, sometimes if people are pushing your buttons, you just need to step back and walk away for a bit. Bagua (among other people) and you may be having some serious disagreements (and his "kapo" comment was below the belt, frankly), but it doesn't justify the virulence of your responses.

In fact, it makes you look like a hot-headed asshole...and you can do better than that. As a matter of fact, there's quite a few people on this thread that just need to take a chill pill, breathe deeply, and calm the f**k down...

Hard to do now that the twins have showed up looking for Mandy blood. Talk about pushing buttons to get a response. Sheesh.

Oh and LVQ is a saint.
/

1195 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:03:05pm

yahoo!...now we can start all over on a whole new bunch of assholes/victims!

1196 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:03:18pm

re: #1186 LudwigVanQuixote

Ice how are you doing?

Just so you know, in addition to the normal lies about AGW and distortions about my credentials and science in general, the person had defended the notion of Jewish controlled banks and called me a kapo. He also used the phrase Loshan Ha Ra and made a point of trying to act all Jewish to mollify me while bringing up hate insults to the people.

I give up, lost case,

Next...
He gets to be called filth right?

I mean I'll call him something else if you disagree... ;)

1197 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:03:50pm

like sharks!

1198 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:04:05pm

re: #1186 LudwigVanQuixote

Ice how are you doing?

Just so you know, in addition to the normal lies about AGW and distortions about my credentials and science in general, the person had defended the notion of Jewish controlled banks and called me a kapo. He also used the phrase Loshan Ha Ra and made a point of trying to act all Jewish to mollify me while bringing up hate insults to the people.

He gets to be called filth right?

I mean I'll call him something else if you disagree... ;)

Hey baby. S'up?
I saw some of that exchange and all of it made me sick. I don't trust myself to say more than that at this moment.
Ignore Silvergirl, who is an anklebiter and shitstirrer. If necessary, ask her why she supports the notion of calling homosexuals 'human filth'.
She's a duplicitous, backbiting, anklebiting little bint.

1199 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:04:16pm

re: #1194 Racer X

Hard to do now that the twins have showed up looking for Mandy blood. Talk about pushing buttons to get a response. Sheesh.

Oh and LVQ is a saint.
/

Racer I am not a saint that is for sure. Right I got dogged for about twenty posts before getting fed up with the normal BS. I do have a threshold. It was crossed. I am tired of it. It ends now. It is very simple. Certain people Are going on a do not talk to me list. I will debunk lies they post but simply tell them not to address me if they try to. Eventually it will sink in to their thick heads.

1200 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:04:16pm

re: #1183 MandyManners

Last time I heard this many crickets I had a box of them to hook on fishing pole.

Folks are pondering their positions, perhaps a group hug is in the offing./

1201 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:04:59pm

re: #1199 LudwigVanQuixote

Racer I am not a saint that is for sure. Right I got dogged for about twenty posts before getting fed up with the normal BS. I do have a threshold. It was crossed. I am tired of it. It ends now. It is very simple. Certain people Are going on a do not talk to me list. I will debunk lies they post but simply tell them not to address me if they try to. Eventually it will sink in to their thick heads.

Honestly, you display absolutely zero professionalism in your manner and approach to debating a issue. You would make Newton and Liebniz ashamed, and they were master debaters and so very capable of stating their science without taking it to the level of malice.

Pay close attention, you show malice toward you fellow man, you actually have a hate, a hatred of anyone who doesn't see things the way you do, doesn't parrot back the science the way you do or value the same things you do.

I will actually suggest that you go back to Talmud, go back to the writing of the Rebbe's, look over the commentaries and learn something about wisdom.

I wish only good for you, but you have to start finding a little love for those who don't see things the way you do. Otherwise, you are going to grow up to be a very lonely old man.

1202 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:05:23pm

re: #1188 talon_262

Ludwig, sometimes if people are pushing your buttons, you just need to step back and walk away for a bit. Bagua (among other people) and you may be having some serious disagreements (and his "kapo" comment was below the belt, frankly), but it doesn't justify the virulence of your responses.


And note that I only said that after him slandering me as an antiSemite and 'human scum'. I've also apologised twice as it was over the top. But a Jew demononising a fellow Jew as less than human has few other appropriate labels, and my comment was to suggest he act like a mench instead.

1203 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:05:29pm

re: #1194 Racer X

Hard to do now that the twins have showed up looking for Mandy blood. Talk about pushing buttons to get a response. Sheesh.

Oh and LVQ is a saint.
/

Hey Racer X! I called you out for your hypocritical doublestandards and assorted bullshit at the bottom of the overnight thread.
Hope you enjoy it!

1205 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:05:47pm

re: #1198 iceweasel

Hey baby. S'up?
I saw some of that exchange and all of it made me sick. I don't trust myself to say more than that at this moment.
Ignore Silvergirl, who is an anklebiter and shitstirrer. If necessary, ask her why she supports the notion of calling homosexuals 'human filth'.
She's a duplicitous, backbiting, anklebiting little bint.

That's fair. I wasn't really getting angry at her. I was mostly surprised she was throwing anything my way since we never interacted poorly before. I am serious about the other fool though. I really do not want it talking to me again and that will not change.

1206 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:05:56pm

re: #952 avanti

I'll try and stay out of this discussion, but it reminds me of the anti-evolution argument. Ignore the tons of data supporting evolution, and focus on the small errors and unknowns. It seems we are doing the same with AGW. Since the data supports warming, attack the accuracy of some of the data any way possible, and ignore the rest.

Very respectfully (since this thread is getting ugly) I disagree. The biggest difference is that evolution and creationism/ID were not the same. Evolution is science whereas ID is pseudoscience. This IS a scientific argument on both sides. And in science, the accuracy of the data is the foundation of any scientific theory.

1207 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:06:07pm

re: #1192 avanti

Yea, you Dark and a few others made be believe I should stick it out and I'm glad I did. That's one reason I'm upset when I see "my side" doing the same to my conservative friends.

You're a gem.

1208 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:06:11pm

re: #1199 LudwigVanQuixote

Racer I am not a saint that is for sure. Right I got dogged for about twenty posts before getting fed up with the normal BS. I do have a threshold. It was crossed. I am tired of it. It ends now. It is very simple. Certain people Are going on a do not talk to me list. I will debunk lies they post but simply tell them not to address me if they try to. Eventually it will sink in to their thick heads.

you're out of control...nobody gives a shit about your threshold, you vain impostor....just apologize and all's well

1209 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:06:14pm

re: #1199 LudwigVanQuixote

Honestly... I love you man... just don't make fun of me... it hurts...

1210 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:06:19pm

re: #1200 avanti

Folks are pondering their positions, perhaps a group hug is in the offing./

Some would be scared that knives would be plunged in their backs.

1211 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:06:23pm

re: #1199 LudwigVanQuixote

Racer I am not a saint that is for sure. Right I got dogged for about twenty posts before getting fed up with the normal BS. I do have a threshold. It was crossed. I am tired of it. It ends now. It is very simple. Certain people Are going on a do not talk to me list. I will debunk lies they post but simply tell them not to address me if they try to. Eventually it will sink in to their thick heads.

Exactly. Definitely the best policy. Of course, the liedebunking never ends with some of the fucknuts here.

1212 wee fury  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:06:37pm

re: #1200 avanti

Folks are pondering their positions, perhaps a group hug is in the offing./

Hooray for group hugs! Count me in.

1213 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:07:13pm

re: #1198 iceweasel

Hey baby. S'up?
I saw some of that exchange and all of it made me sick. I don't trust myself to say more than that at this moment.
Ignore Silvergirl, who is an anklebiter and shitstirrer. If necessary, ask her why she supports the notion of calling homosexuals 'human filth'.
She's a duplicitous, backbiting, anklebiting little bint.

Where?

1214 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:07:34pm

re: #1203 iceweasel

Hey Racer X! I called you out for your hypocritical doublestandards and assorted bullshit at the bottom of the overnight thread.
Hope you enjoy it!

Hi Ice!

You wasted your time. I won't even go look.

;-)

1215 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:07:34pm

re: #1211 iceweasel

Exactly. Definitely the best policy. Of course, the liedebunking never ends with some of the fucknuts here.

If you are going to call me a fucknut, please capitalize it... show a little respect :)

1216 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:07:40pm

re: #1202 Bagua

And note that I only said that after him slandering me as an antiSemite and 'human scum'. I've also apologised twice as it was over the top. But a Jew demononising a fellow Jew as less than human has few other appropriate labels, and my comment was to suggest he act like a mench instead.

Don't talk about me either. You did quite a lot of that in my absence. Don't talk to me. Don't talk about me and don't distort what you said or what I said. It is all in the thread for anyone who cares to read.

Do not use Jewish words. It is offensive when one such as you tries that schtick.

Which part of do not interact with me did you miss? Are you actually that stupid?

1217 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:07:47pm

re: #1213 Silvergirl

Where?

You already linked that thread yourself, genius.

1218 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:08:06pm

re: #1191 iceweasel

Sorry, but unless by attacking you mean 'pointing out when and where she's a bully' he hasn't been 'attacking' her.

Yes, I'm a little pissed off. This is the second time I come here today and find the usual fucking shitheads talking crap about me. Not you.

No problem Ice, and I was only sniping at Jimmah because he has been attacking me the last few threads and not otherwise chatting with me. He also wouldn't acknowledge he made a mistake when he accused me of rewriting history.

You and I always acknowledge when we've made a mistake like that.

1219 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:08:18pm

re: #1215 Walter L. Newton

If you are going to call me a fucknut, please capitalize it... show a little respect :)

OSCAR!

1220 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:08:42pm

re: #1208 albusteve

you're out of control...nobody gives a shit about your threshold, you vain impostor...just apologize and all's well

NO. I detest you. I am very honest about these things.

1221 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:08:46pm

re: #1196 littleugly

Only thing I wrote on #1196 was,

I give up, lost case,

Next...

1222 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:08:49pm

re: #1215 Walter L. Newton

If you are going to call me a fucknut, please capitalize it... show a little respect :)

Yeah, you're not a fucknut. Yet. :)
I'm still pissed at you for that crap earlier today as well, be advised. I'd rather not talk to you until I'm calmer.

1223 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:09:01pm

re: #1215 Walter L. Newton

If you are going to call me a fucknut, please capitalize it... show a little respect :)

Not sure what a fucknut is, perhaps someone that nuts about....

1224 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:09:08pm

re: #1194 Racer X

Hard to do now that the twins have showed up looking for Mandy blood. Talk about pushing buttons to get a response. Sheesh.

Oh and LVQ is a saint.
/

Here's a comment from Mandy's repertoire you will no doubt approve of : "GO FUCK YOURSELF".

Course it isn't as nice when it's not Mandy who is using it, eh?

1225 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:09:16pm

*crickets*

1226 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:09:17pm

I don't need anybody here...I have my lawn chair....

1227 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:09:21pm

re: #1167 iceweasel

I objected to people using the term 'human filth' to apply to groups of individuals. Like someone in that thread was applying it to homosexuals as a group. You remember, don't you? You were defending that shit.

Nice to see you, silvergirl. Didn't have enough going on in this thread, so you felt like stirring up some shit and dragging me into it?


That was a hard drag getting you in here, ice. You came in kicking and screaming all the way. Pure resistance!

You're such fun!

1228 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:09:43pm

re: #1222 iceweasel

Yeah, you're not a fucknut. Yet. :)
I'm still pissed at you for that crap earlier today as well, be advised. I'd rather not talk to you until I'm calmer.

Chin up. It only hurts for a little while.

1229 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:10:18pm

re: #1227 Silvergirl

That was a hard drag getting you in here, ice. You came in kicking and screaming all the way. Pure resistance!

You're such fun!

You sure seemed like you were having fun in our last encounters. :)
That was quite a fast meltdown on your part, honey!

1230 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:10:28pm

re: #1211 iceweasel

Exactly. Definitely the best policy. Of course, the liedebunking never ends with some of the fucknuts here.

Upding for 'fucknuts'. A most cromulant word, under the circumstances:)

1231 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:10:38pm

re: #1226 albusteve

I don't need anybody here...I have my lawn chair...

And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that's all I need. And that's all I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one - I need this. The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this. And that's all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair.

1232 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:11:10pm

Ahh.

Here come the petty downdings.

Too funny. What ever makes you feel good.

1233 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:11:26pm

re: #1216 LudwigVanQuixote

Do not use Jewish words.

Why?

1234 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:11:36pm

re: #1228 Walter L. Newton

Chin up. It only hurts for a little while.

Oh, Jimmah had a comment for you there too. I guess you were 'too busy' to go check it out.
It should only hurt for a while. Well, ok. A little longer than that. :)

1235 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:11:39pm

The crickets and I are retiring for the night.

1236 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:11:45pm

re: #1204 NJDhockeyfan

New paper from the Science and Public Policy Institute destroys global warming claims by CRU

Ahhh a false pseudo science article by a heartland institute like organization of deniers reported on in the MSM, and you consider that science....

[Link: scienceandpublicpolicy.org...]

Why not look at their wingnut home page... will you be linking to the Discovery institute next? And you wonder why I think you are slightly retarded....

1237 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:11:50pm

re: #1229 iceweasel

You sure seemed like you were having fun in our last encounters. :)
That was quite a fast meltdown on your part, honey!

I don't recall having any Wicked Witch of the West moments. Did you toss some water my way?

Is your recall a little faulty?

1238 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:12:07pm

re: #1220 LudwigVanQuixote

NO. I detest you. I am very honest about these things.

I'm sure you do by now...in the blur of your vanity, no doubt you have lost all memory as to why you pissed me off months ago....you stink, but are one hell of a piece of entertainment, so thanks for that...I love that red nose, I'm gonna steal it you fake!

1239 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:12:08pm

re: #1234 iceweasel

Oh, Jimmah had a comment for you there too. I guess you were 'too busy' to go check it out.
It should only hurt for a while. Well, ok. A little longer than that. :)

I really don't give a fuck... got that?

1240 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:12:10pm

re: #1201 Walter L. Newton


I will actually suggest that you go back to Talmud, go back to the writing of the Rebbe's, look over the commentaries and learn something about wisdom.

Walter, what possible response do you expect this to get? Serious fucking question. After a screaming flame-fight, you tell Ludwig to read Tanya?

1241 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:12:22pm

re: #1227 Silvergirl

That was a hard drag getting you in here, ice. You came in kicking and screaming all the way. Pure resistance!

You're such fun!

Quite the troll aren't you, Silvergirl?

1242 Jerusalemyte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:12:27pm

Weathermen need to change their name to dirty-old-weathermen!

1243 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:12:34pm

re: #1232 Racer X

Ahh.

Here come the petty downdings.

Too funny. What ever makes you feel good.

Here you go, fucknut.

1244 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:12:56pm

re: #1235 MandyManners

The crickets and I are retiring for the night.

Night Mandy.

1245 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:13:11pm

re: #1239 Walter L. Newton

I really don't give a fuck... got that?

Looks like we hit a nerve!
Yeah, I got that. :)

1246 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:13:16pm

re: #1228 Walter L. Newton

Chin up. It only hurts for a little while.

it's the memory dude...the memory

1247 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:13:22pm

re: #1235 MandyManners

The crickets and I are retiring for the night.

Good night Mandy!

1248 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:13:38pm

re: #1238 albusteve

I'm sure you do by now...in the blur of your vanity, no doubt you have lost all memory as to why you pissed me off months ago...you stink, but are one hell of a piece of entertainment, so thanks for that...I love that red nose, I'm gonna steal it you fake!

Yeah ok fine... don't talk to me either... fuck off etc.. etc...

1249 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:13:44pm

re: #1236 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahhh a false pseudo science article by a heartland institute like organization of deniers reported on in the MSM, and you consider that science...

[Link: scienceandpublicpolicy.org...]

Why not look at their wingnut home page... will you be linking to the Discovery institute next? And you wonder why I think you are slightly retarded...

Some people are offended by using that term as an insult. But you don't care.

1250 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:13:49pm

Goodnight Mandy.

1251 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:13:51pm

re: #1240 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, what possible response do you expect this to get? Serious fucking question. After a screaming flame-fight, you tell Ludwig to read Tanya?

Evidently nothing more insightful than what you were capable of posting.

1252 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:13:59pm

re: #1244 avanti

Night Mandy.

Good night, Avanti!

1253 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:14:16pm

re: #1247 Racer X

Good night Mandy!

Good night, Racer!

1254 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:14:26pm

re: #1229 iceweasel

You sure seemed like you were having fun in our last encounters. :)
That was quite a fast meltdown on your part, honey!

maybe you're stupid?...is that a possibility?

1255 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:14:34pm

re: #1241 Jimmah

Quite the troll aren't you, Silvergirl?

Yeah, I used to go out of my way to be nice to that person, long after it was clear she was a hostile, anklebiting troll.
No more. As you and LVQ said, the gloves are off.
She's on permanent ignore.

1256 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:14:36pm

re: #1225 MandyManners

*crickets*

Amusing comment coming from someone who has never once to my memory, hung around to debate any point with me whatsoever. If there was a cricket for every time you have ducked out of an argument, there would be enough to fill a planet.

1257 thefarmer  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:14:53pm

re: #1059 NJDhockeyfan
I simply have to agree w/ NJDhockeyfan. Look at history, the planet has had many warming and cooling periods.

The latest BS is all political/finacial motivated. This is about poorer countries/UN getting more money out of us as a scam. Then the leaders take off w/ it.

As I recall the US Senate voted down the Kyoto POS by 99-0 under Clinton. Maybe I'm wrong, but they knew then it a simple ripoff of the US.

I'm looking at the planet's history, it warms and cools over THOUSANDS of years.

Our personal lifestyle, we've been recyling since the 70's, all this globalwarming BS is just about some people making money.

1258 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:14:55pm

re: #1240 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, what possible response do you expect this to get? Serious fucking question. After a screaming flame-fight, you tell Ludwig to read Tanya?

Thank you SFZ... He really does not know a bit about how insulting he is really... At least I hope that is the case. I was actually going to ignore it. My response would have been too angry.

1259 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:14:58pm

re: #1235 MandyManners

The crickets and I are retiring for the night.

Night Mandy!

1260 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:15:09pm

re: #1249 NJDhockeyfan

Some people are offended by using that term as an insult. But you don't care.

It's OK if you are a 'scientist' apparently, it's code for 'hide the decline'.

1261 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:15:16pm

re: #1243 iceweasel

Ouch!

Someone pee in your cornflakes today? I didn't even read it.

1262 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:15:21pm

re: #1250 Bagua

Goodnight Mandy.

Good night, Bagua!

1263 Mich-again  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:15:28pm

I don't think you need any instrumentation to arrive at the conclusion that human activity has caused the level of CO2 in the atmosphere to be higher than it would be without us here. The 6 billion or so of us burn lots of carbon-based fuels that create CO2 as a product of combustion and we occupy a lot of land where trees and plants would otherwise grow.

And its a pretty straightforward experiment to see what happens when air has a higher concentration of CO2. The CO2 acts as an insulator to hold in heat.

So its not that big of a stretch to see how human activity could cause the atmosphere to warm, at least somewhat. Granted there are lots of other transients like sunspot activity that can affect the temperature equation, but we can't do anything about them so we might as well look at what we can control.

Reduce waste and conserve energy for starters. And that will have the extra benefit of making that energy cheaper which will in turn benefit each one of us and the entire economy. That would be a sensible approach for conservatives. Supporting energy conservation initiatives in every home, business, school and automobile. Its a win-win.

1264 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:15:36pm

re: #1251 Walter L. Newton

Evidently nothing more insightful than what you were capable of posting.

Fuck off, you pretentious git.

1265 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:15:43pm

re: #1241 Jimmah

Quite the troll aren't you, Silvergirl?

ah...the last resort of a busted flush...the troll accusation...pretty weak

1266 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:15:48pm

re: #1259 NJDhockeyfan

Night Mandy!

Good night, NJDhockeyfan!

1267 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:15:54pm

re: #1251 Walter L. Newton

Evidently nothing more insightful than what you were capable of posting.

You see you had to go there.. OK Walter... let's talk a little bit about what the Talmud says about giving liars and frauds like you the sme credence as learned men...

You perhaps should read that bit. You get more respect than you deserve.

1268 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:15:57pm

re: #1255 iceweasel

Yeah, I used to go out of my way to be nice to that person, long after it was clear she was a hostile, anklebiting troll.
No more. As you and LVQ said, the gloves are off.
She's on permanent ignore.

Than more ignoring and less commenting on her.

1269 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:16:07pm

re: #1254 albusteve

maybe you're stupid?...is that a possibility?

If it were, I seriously doubt so many people would be this threatened by me. Carry on.

1270 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:16:12pm

re: #1245 iceweasel

Looks like we hit a nerve!
Yeah, I got that. :)

No Ice, you didn't. But my conversation on the other thread was with Ludwig most of the time, and if Jimmah came in after I left, and had something to say, it's not really pertinent to me, since I never saw it and I never addressed it. You made it sound like it was important to me, it isn't. I'm not dismissing what he said, just didn't see it, and really, it doesn't change anything.

1271 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:16:17pm

re: #1254 albusteve

maybe you're stupid?...is that a possibility?

No more like you are...

1272 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:16:20pm

.....wow

1273 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:16:33pm

re: #1258 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you SFZ... He really does not know a bit about how insulting he is really... At least I hope that is the case. I was actually going to ignore it. My response would have been too angry.

Now that's just funny! You mean mean there is a higher level than you've shown already?

Lol.

1274 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:16:53pm

re: #1248 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah ok fine... don't talk to me either... fuck off etc.. etc...

your vanity won't let you not respond to me...seems i have your number eh?

1275 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:16:53pm

re: #1255 iceweasel

Yeah, I used to go out of my way to be nice to that person, long after it was clear she was a hostile, anklebiting troll.
No more. As you and LVQ said, the gloves are off.
She's on permanent ignore.

Neener, neener.

Night Mandy,
{SHARMUTA}

1276 lostlakehiker  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:16:59pm

re: #410 windsagio

The only difference with Ludwig is that he's not an insider. Plenty of people on here get a free pass for throwing out loathesome insults whenever they want, because they're oldtimers or because people agree with them.

The difference is that Ludwig is on the other side, so people don't like him.

Ludwig is in the rare position of just flat knowing he's right. Science can be like that. CO2 really is a greenhouse gas. That's not open for debate.

Unfortunately, it can be necessary at times, to preserve civility, to politely pretend to ignorance instead of calling spades spades. And that aspect of politeness is just not Ludwig's forte.

1277 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:17:00pm

re: #1269 iceweasel

If it were, I seriously doubt so many people would be this threatened by me. Carry on.

Well said weasle babe!

1278 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:17:38pm

re: #1272 TheMatrix31

...wow

Feel the love!

1279 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:17:48pm

re: #1264 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck off, you pretentious git.

what's a git?...am I one?

1280 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:17:48pm

re: #1268 avanti

Than more ignoring and less commenting on her.

I guess you should have thought about applying that to her, when she felt the need to bring me up when i wasn't even present, huh?
Or possibly to her during her several followup comments attempting to further bait me.
Carry on, Saint Avanti.

1281 wee fury  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:18:02pm

Since the group hug hasn't worked out . . .
Avanti, and other car buffs -- this is an interesting link:[Link: www.lov2xlr8.no...]

1282 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:18:05pm

re: #1273 Bagua

Now that's just funny! You mean mean there is a higher level than you've shown already?

Lol.

Which part of you are filthy scum and you should not talk to me or adress me did you miss. You are pathetic, lying and useless. You make a mockery of true things and you are too arrogant and foolish to see it. You are detestable and a stain on the honor of the people. Do not talk to me.

1283 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:18:27pm

re: #1264 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck off, you pretentious git.

Whoever has kidnapped SanFrancisoZionist, I demand you release her and not use her log in!

1284 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:18:29pm

re: #1278 Racer X

I feel something, alright.

1285 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:18:52pm

re: #1279 albusteve

what's a git?...am I one?

Yes... A git is a self important but ignorant blow hard who says obnoxious and pointless things without substance. That is certainly you :)

1286 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:18:59pm

re: #1264 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #1267 LudwigVanQuixote

Looks like I hit a nerve. Sorry you two, you don't own it, it's free and available to all, a great gift and I have as much right to reference it as you have.

1287 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:19:41pm

re: #1270 Walter L. Newton

No Ice, you didn't. But my conversation on the other thread was with Ludwig most of the time, and if Jimmah came in after I left, and had something to say, it's not really pertinent to me, since I never saw it and I never addressed it. You made it sound like it was important to me, it isn't. I'm not dismissing what he said, just didn't see it, and really, it doesn't change anything.

I'm talking about this thread from this morning. Git.

1288 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:20:00pm

re: #1285 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes... A git is a self important but ignorant blow hard who says obnoxious and pointless things without substance. That is certainly you :)

Me too... me too... she said I was too.

1289 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:20:05pm

re: #1280 iceweasel

I guess you should have thought about applying that to her, when she felt the need to bring me up when i wasn't even present, huh?
Or possibly to her during her several followup comments attempting to further bait me.
Carry on, Saint Avanti.

Saint Avanti ?, that has to be the best thing I've ever been called in my LGF history, how can I not blush.

1290 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:20:06pm

re: #1286 Walter L. Newton

re: #1267 LudwigVanQuixote

Looks like I hit a nerve. Sorry you two, you don't own it, it's free and available to all, a great gift and I have as much right to reference it as you have.

Oh you really are an asshole. Now you are on the don't talk to me list as well Walter. Just don't bother.

1291 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:20:23pm

oy

1292 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:20:54pm

re: #1282 LudwigVanQuixote

Which part of you are filthy scum and you should not talk to me or adress me did you miss. You are pathetic, lying and useless. You make a mockery of true things and you are too arrogant and foolish to see it. You are detestable and a stain on the honor of the people. Do not talk to me.

Too funny really.

I can no longer be insulted by your extreme behaviour. It is truly amusing now.

1293 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:20:57pm
1294 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:21:12pm

re: #1264 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck off, you pretentious git.

Amen. I am actually enjoying letting months of frustration out.

1295 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:21:14pm

re: #1254 albusteve

maybe you're stupid?...is that a possibility?

Yre: #1265 albusteve

ah...the last resort of a busted flush...the troll accusation...pretty weak

She is a troll. It's a fact - like it or lump it. Whereas you have such strong arguments as - calling names. Yeah steve. Go back to your bourbon and your ounce pack of acapulco gold, or whatever it is you're hopped up on tonight.

1296 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:21:18pm

will somebody please insult me?...I feel left out...like BOO HOO...maybe you can dingbutt me but it's just not the same as a good old face to face smackola...I gotta log off pretty quick...I feel left out of this primo hate fest...help me out here Lud and Jim

1297 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:21:47pm

re: #1287 iceweasel

I'm talking about this thread from this morning. Git.

No, I didn't see that comment, like I said. Doesn't change anything I said. But thanks.

1298 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:22:19pm

Anyone else need a beer, I don't think I can handle much more of this without a good buzz.

1299 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:22:26pm

Sonofabitch!

It's a FULL MOON!

That explains a lot.

1300 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:22:48pm

re: #1290 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh you really are an asshole. Now you are on the don't talk to me list as well Walter. Just don't bother.

And now we will have the "Ludwig Only Thread."

1301 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:22:52pm

re: #1293 Racer X

Spooky.

Wow, the Global Warming looks beautiful on those mountain tops, sad to think it is because of the deforestation.

1302 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:23:00pm

re: #1298 avanti

Anyone else need a beer, I don't think I can handle much more of this without a good buzz.

I'm buying dude. Blue Moon?

1303 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:23:09pm

re: #1292 Bagua

Too funny really.

I can no longer be insulted by your extreme behaviour. It is truly amusing now.

Which part of do not address me did you miss. I shall make a stock set of insults for your replies to me. So as not to keep re typing...

Hmm I suppose here it is... It will be cut and pasted for you from now on.

Bagua, you are aa pathetic excuse for a human. You are a coward and a liar. You have no courage of your convictions. You are detestable scum. You are hateful. It causes me endless pain to think you might be Jewish because that brings down my entire people.

1304 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:23:30pm

re: #1285 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes... A git is a self important but ignorant blow hard who says obnoxious and pointless things without substance. That is certainly you :)

can you lead me to your ivory tower?....is it possible to change?

1305 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:23:32pm

re: #1044 LudwigVanQuixote

Well actually we have geological data that goes back billions of years. However, if you actually read the science you would not need the whole Earth to look at for it's whole history. If you understand that CO2 is a GHG and there is a lot more of it, the warming follows. Why do you not get that? What is so hard to understand?

Hmmm, I'm a geologist. I tend to look at earth processes in time periods slightly longer than 50 or 100 years.

1306 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:23:33pm

re: #1298 avanti

Anyone else need a beer, I don't think I can handle much more of this without a good buzz.

Agreed, the popcorn is insufficient.

Doobie anyone?

1307 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:23:36pm

re: #1302 Racer X

I'm buying dude. Blue Moon?

Only if you have a fresh orange.

1308 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:23:41pm

re: #1299 Racer X

I'd say it's a presence of a few unsavory characters, not the beautiful moon.

1309 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:24:13pm

re: #1300 Walter L. Newton

Just don't talk to me Walter. Do not address me and I will try to ignore your presence.

1310 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:25:11pm

*sighs*

You know what? I'm getting real f**king tired of reading long threads full of petty bickering, grade-school insults, and virulent, scorching personal attacks; Charles is a hell of a host and he doesn't deserve this crap. If y'all (and I mean the better part of everyone on this thread) want to drag LGF into the blog sewers, keep this shit up; otherwise, either solve your differences like rational adults, ignore the assholes that set you off (without being a damn drama queen about it), or just walk away for a bit and chill out.

This kind of soap-opera bullshit turns me off to getting involved in threads and I venture to say that it's a turnoff to others as well. It's disappointing as hell to know that most everyone here that gets involved in these squabbles and snipefests can be rational and engaging in discussions when they want to be.

So, my question is this: What's it gonna be?

1311 Mich-again  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:25:16pm

re: #1282 LudwigVanQuixote
Just think of all those people that took up math for their advanced degree. They miss out on all the fun debating their field of study with anyone and everyone in political blogs.

Then again, I remain unconvinced that there is really such a creature as a Laplace Transform that my calc teachers kept talking about.

1312 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:25:24pm

re: #1305 Unakite

Hmmm, I'm a geologist. I tend to look at earth processes in time periods slightly longer than 50 or 100 years.

Well that's fair. As a geologist, you no doubt know of Milankovitch cycles and that we should be cooling right now as per those. As such, how do you account for the warming? Moreover, since the process is really just basic QM and Thermo, how do you dispute it?

1313 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:25:25pm

re: #1309 LudwigVanQuixote

Just don't talk to me Walter. Do not address me and I will try to ignore your presence.

Have fun. Really, I can't believe I am talking to an adult.

1314 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:25:30pm

re: #1306 Bagua

Agreed, the popcorn is insufficient.

Doobie anyone?

Anyone else thing more bills would get passed if both sides slammed a few beers before beginning a debate ?

1315 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:25:45pm

weasle babe?....ahahaha!
that is just too much!...oooff!


WEASLE BABE?....a friggin snortster

1316 wee fury  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:25:46pm

The full moon brings out weirdness.

1317 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:25:49pm

re: #1303 LudwigVanQuixote

Bagua, you are aa pathetic excuse for a human. You are a coward and a liar. You have no courage of your convictions. You are detestable scum. You are hateful. It causes me endless pain to think you might be Jewish because that brings down my entire people.

So you are a superior Jew and I am scum?

1318 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:25:58pm

re: #1311 Mich-again

Just think of all those people that took up math for their advanced degree. They miss out on all the fun debating their field of study with anyone and everyone in political blogs.

Then again, I remain unconvinced that there is really such a creature as a Laplace Transform that my calc teachers kept talking about.

Lol... ok that is a great comment!

1319 Mich-again  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:26:27pm

re: #1296 albusteve

will somebody please insult me?...I feel left out...like BOO HOO...


You're a Schmeil and a Schmozzle!

1320 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:26:39pm

re: #1310 talon_262

Go piss up a rope!

;-)

1321 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:26:44pm

re: #1317 Bagua

Bagua, you are a pathetic excuse for a human. You are a coward and a liar. You have no courage of your convictions. You are detestable scum. You are hateful. It causes me endless pain to think you might be Jewish because that brings down my entire people.

1322 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:26:56pm

re: #1286 Walter L. Newton

re: #1267 LudwigVanQuixote

Looks like I hit a nerve. Sorry you two, you don't own it, it's free and available to all, a great gift and I have as much right to reference it as you have.

Riiiiiight. So if when one of our Christian lizards is getting mean and ugly I tell them to read their Bible, that will go down a treat? Won't be seen as baiting at all.

I didn't say you couldn't reference, I asked what you imagined it was going to do to say that.

1323 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:26:58pm

re: #1312 LudwigVanQuixote

Well that's fair. As a geologist, you no doubt know of Milankovitch cycles and that we should be cooling right now as per those. As such, how do you account for the warming? Moreover, since the process is really just basic QM and Thermo, how do you dispute it?

Walter to the rescue with an answer, from science...

Why has global warming paused? Water vapor may be in the answer. - A decline in stratospheric water vapor between 2000 and 2009 followed an apparent increase between 1980 and 2000, a team of scientists has found. That finding may have implications for global warming.

1324 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:28:07pm

re: #1310 talon_262

*sighs*

You know what? I'm getting real f**king tired of reading long threads full of petty bickering, grade-school insults, and virulent, scorching personal attacks; Charles is a hell of a host and he doesn't deserve this crap. If y'all (and I mean the better part of everyone on this thread) want to drag LGF into the blog sewers, keep this shit up; otherwise, either solve your differences like rational adults, ignore the assholes that set you off (without being a damn drama queen about it), or just walk away for a bit and chill out.

This kind of soap-opera bullshit turns me off to getting involved in threads and I venture to say that it's a turnoff to others as well. It's disappointing as hell to know that most everyone here that gets involved in these squabbles and snipefests can be rational and engaging in discussions when they want to be.

So, my question is this: What's it gonna be?

Honestly it is a bloddletting that needs to get done with and let out. then things will normalize.

1326 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:28:23pm

LVQ, when you use the abbreviation QM the only things I can think of are quantum mechanics which you're certainly not talking about and quantitative methods which you could be talking about. What do you mean by QM?

1327 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:28:23pm

er...talon....perpetuation is a strange remedy for...perpetuation

1328 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:28:43pm

re: #1319 Mich-again

You're a Schmeil and a Schmozzle!

Your eyes are too close together, and you ears don't match.

1329 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:28:45pm

re: #1321 LudwigVanQuixote

Shut...the fuck...up.

1330 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:28:58pm

re: #1236 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahhh a false pseudo science article by a heartland institute like organization of deniers reported on in the MSM, and you consider that science...

[Link: scienceandpublicpolicy.org...]

Why not look at their wingnut home page... will you be linking to the Discovery institute next? And you wonder why I think you are slightly retarded...

I find that whenever someone claims to have 'destroyed the CRU's claims', the only thing that ends up destroyed is their credibility.

1331 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:29:07pm

Posts about water vapor from non scientific sources are not science. This buit of BS was long ago debunked on this thread. The morons who keep bringing it up simply can not read science.

1332 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:29:29pm

Lug wears argyle socks to the beach....you just know he does..here he comes...over the calf argyles and wing tips....and madrass shortaloons with a paisley shirt...."hey Weasle Babe!"....(coolness)

1334 Mich-again  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:29:45pm

re: #1328 avanti

Your eyes are too close together, and you ears don't match.

You're ugly and your momma dresses you funny.

1335 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:30:38pm

re: #1326 Olsonist

LVQ, when you use the abbreviation QM the only things I can think of are quantum mechanics which you're certainly not talking about and quantitative methods which you could be talking about. What do you mean by QM?

I mean Quantum Mechanics. CO2 traps IR because of its bond structure and the energy bands that result. It is QM plain and simple. It is even very well established QM that is over 80 years old. That is why it is really painful to hear "scientists" doubt it or not think of it.

1336 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:30:45pm

re: #1272 TheMatrix31

...wow

It's like walking into a artillery-created moonscape, isn't it?

1337 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:30:47pm

re: #1329 TheMatrix31

Leave it alone man. He's been like this for hours. In a tizzy on an anonymous blog and mad at people he will never see in real life.

If I ever get that mad over dots on a screen, someone please just shoot me.

1338 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:31:16pm

re: #1324 LudwigVanQuixote

Honestly it is a bloddletting that needs to get done with and let out. then things will normalize.

Oh come on Ludwig - you know the rule, surely - liberals must emulate Ghandi in the face of a full on obscenity and slur based attack from team wingnut, otherwise it's just not fair/

1339 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:31:45pm

re: #1300 Walter L. Newton

And now we will have the "Ludwig Only Thread."

Interesting how the tone changes when Ludwig stops by to chat, eh?

Definitely some sort of manic episode we are witnessing.

1340 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:32:06pm

re: #1336 Dark_Falcon

It's like walking into a scene filled with a few transparent, abusive, virulent fuckers, that's what it is.

1341 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:32:11pm

re: #1333 NJDhockeyfan

I posted that on 628. Strangely enough AGW boy had no comment.

Because it was bullshit then and still is now Hockey boy. It was even debunked here many times. Maybe you were too stupid to read the three threads that brought up the topic or remember when you yourself were shot down with it? Well stupid people have be told the same things over and over... Care to read actual science or are you just going to say you don't buy it and won't read?

1342 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:32:18pm

re: #1331 LudwigVanQuixote

Posts about water vapor from non scientific sources are not science. This buit of BS was long ago debunked on this thread. The morons who keep bringing it up simply can not read science.

From the article:

That’s an explanation by a team of atmospheric scientists from the United States and Germany. They’ve studied trends in stratospheric water vapor over the past 30 years and calculated the effects of those trends on temperatures.

..."There's not a lot of water in the stratosphere. It's extremely dry," says Susan Solomon, an atmospheric scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Earth System Research Laboratory in Boulder, Colo., who led the team. "But it packs a wallop" in terms of its climatic effects, she says.

Other factors probably played a role as well in the temperature plateau, the team acknowledges.

Non scientific sources?

1343 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:32:28pm

re: #1338 Jimmah

Oh come on Ludwig - you know the rule, surely - liberals must emulate Ghandi in the face of a full on obscenity and slur based attack from team wingnut, otherwise it's just not fair/

Damn straight.

1344 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:32:34pm

wolf moon is to blame

1345 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:32:41pm

re: #1337 Racer X

I'm just sick of a few of these people is all. Otherwise, I don't give a shit.

1346 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:32:51pm

re: #1334 Mich-again

You're ugly and your momma dresses you funny.

You have two brains, one's lost, the other is looking for it.

1347 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:33:07pm

re: #1331 LudwigVanQuixote

Posts about water vapor from non scientific sources are not science. This buit of BS was long ago debunked on this thread. The morons who keep bringing it up simply can not read science.

Except this is a new report, by peer-reviewed scientist... and it is not an AGW denier paper... So Ludwig, why don't you read the science before commenting.

""There's not a lot of water in the stratosphere. It's extremely dry," says Susan Solomon, an atmospheric scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Earth System Research Laboratory in Boulder, Colo., who led the team. "But it packs a wallop" in terms of its climatic effects, she says."

"Another contributor could have been sulfate aerosols from the rising number of coal-fired power plants in China, point out researchers such as Drew Shindell, with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York."

"But the team's work, which appears in this week's Science Express, an online publication affiliated with the journal Science, appears to be the first time anyone has looked at that mechanism in the context of the past decade's slowdown in warming, says Sam Levis, a scientist with the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo."

1348 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:33:13pm

re: #1337 Racer X

Leave it alone man. He's been like this for hours. In a tizzy on an anonymous blog and mad at people he will never see in real life.

If I ever get that mad over dots on a screen, someone please just shoot me.

Please. Hypocrite.

How's the weather in Oceania? Doubleplusungood?

1349 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:33:26pm

re: #1319 Mich-again

You're a Schmeil and a Schmozzle!

Hassenpfeffer Incorporated!

1350 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:33:34pm

re: #1345 TheMatrix31

I'm just sick of a few of these people is all. Otherwise, I don't give a shit.

Agreed.

1351 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:33:34pm

re: #1342 NJDhockeyfan

Non scientific sources?

Ohh the original science paper, which you are not quoting, and never read, is probably kosher. The MSM shit that you bring to make it seem that CO2 is not an issue is bullshit.

1352 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:34:04pm

re: #1347 Walter L. Newton

Do not address me fool.

1353 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:34:32pm

re: #1321 LudwigVanQuixote

Bagua, you are a pathetic excuse for a human. You are a coward and a liar. You have no courage of your convictions. You are detestable scum. You are hateful. It causes me endless pain to think you might be Jewish because that brings down my entire people.

Lug, you are a premier light weight...you got no game, no cred, no nothing but those stupid horned rim glasses you wear....you are a complete phoney and a first class nerd.....you don't impress me or anybody else around here outside of your groupie posse...your curses come straight out of some B rate tough guy softback...you are laughable in that you have no clue, like Jerry Lewis

1354 Mich-again  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:35:00pm

Water vapor is another major product of combustion and a greenhouse gas as well, but the atmosphere can shed water much easier than the CO2.

1355 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:35:07pm

re: #1339 Bagua

Interesting how the tone changes when Ludwig stops by to chat, eh?

Definitely some sort of manic episode we are witnessing.

Bagua, you are a pathetic excuse for a human. You are a coward and a liar. You have no courage of your convictions. You are detestable scum. You are hateful. It causes me endless pain to think you might be Jewish because that brings down my entire people.

1356 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:35:17pm

I still didn't look.

I'm such an ass.

1357 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:35:40pm

re: #1341 LudwigVanQuixote

Because it was bullshit then and still is now Hockey boy. It was even debunked here many times. Maybe you were too stupid to read the three threads that brought up the topic or remember when you yourself were shot down with it? Well stupid people have be told the same things over and over... Care to read actual science or are you just going to say you don't buy it and won't read?

You need to read the science... this is not a AGW denier paper, just the opposite, the team are firm believers in the science, but they are looking at the slight cooling trend that has become apparent and they have a possible explanation... that's called good science.

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

1358 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:35:47pm

re: #1354 Mich-again

Water vapor is another major product of combustion and a greenhouse gas as well, but the atmosphere can shed water much easier than the CO2.

And that is exactly why water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing. Good on you!

1359 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:36:06pm

re: #1357 Walter L. Newton

Do not address me fool.

1360 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:36:07pm

re: #1356 Racer X



I'm such an ass.

Well, even a stopped fucknut clock like yourself is right twice a day.

1361 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:36:11pm

Oh nice, Iceweasel and Jimmy are downdinging everything I say. But don't downding them, because they'll call you a stalker, or a compulsive dinger, or someone with an agenda, or whatever else they like to paint you as.

1362 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:36:15pm

re: #1352 LudwigVanQuixote

Do not address me fool.

Stop me.

1363 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:36:58pm

re: #1361 TheMatrix31

Oh nice, Iceweasel and Jimmy are downdinging everything I say. But don't downding them, because they'll call you a stalker, or a compulsive dinger, or someone with an agenda, or whatever else they like to paint you as.

And you have a problem with that?

1364 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:37:09pm

The Mysterious Voynich Manuscript

The ancient text has no known title, no known author, and is written in no known language: what does it say and why does it have many astronomy illustrations?

1365 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:37:12pm

this is weirdly fascinating. i can't stop reading it even though i'm appalled. something is wrong with me too.

1366 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:37:16pm

re: #1361 TheMatrix31

Oh nice, Iceweasel and Jimmy are downdinging everything I say. But don't downding them, because they'll call you a stalker, or a compulsive dinger, or someone with an agenda, or whatever else they like to paint you as.

Mongo31 ANGRY! Mongo31 very, very angry!
So angry that Mongo31 logs in every night just to deal out a few downdings.
Yeah, we all know it.

1367 Mich-again  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:37:26pm

re: #1346 avanti

You have two brains, one's lost, the other is looking for it.

Ha. UNCLE!

1368 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:37:27pm

re: #1355 LudwigVanQuixote

Lol, time to check the Lithium levels Ludwig, you're having another episode.

1369 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:37:51pm

re: #1362 Walter L. Newton

Stop me.

Ver well, I sahll write a stock response for you.

Wlater you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education no existent.

1370 wee fury  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:38:01pm

re: #1344 jotalot

wolf moon is to blame

Bad Moon Rising

1371 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:38:13pm

re: #1365 jotalot

this is weirdly fascinating. i can't stop reading it even though i'm appalled. something is wrong with me too.

It's pretty fucked up. Much of it has been a long time coming. Maybe it is the full moon.
I expect things will simmer down eventually.

1372 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:38:18pm

re: #1368 Bagua

Bagua, you are a pathetic excuse for a human. You are a coward and a liar. You have no courage of your convictions. You are detestable scum. You are hateful. It causes me endless pain to think you might be Jewish because that brings down my entire people.

1373 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:38:27pm

re: #1321 LudwigVanQuixote

Bagua, you are a pathetic excuse for a human. You are a coward and a liar. You have no courage of your convictions. You are detestable scum. You are hateful. It causes me endless pain to think you might be Jewish because that brings down my entire people.

Intervention from online friends is in order.

Good luck, Ludwig.

{SHARMUTA}

1374 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:38:29pm

re: #1356 Racer X

I still didn't look.

I'm such an ass.

How dare you call you an ass! That's outrageous.

*oh wait*

1375 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:38:35pm

re: #1348 iceweasel

Please. Hypocrite.

How's the weather in Oceania? Doubleplusungood?

Isn't it just downright laughable that after all the shit that has gone down here tonight, and before - the kapo comment, the baiting of Ludwig before he even got here, and all that has transpired since, a couple of wingnuts are still pretending to each other that this is all bad behaviour by some bad liberals.

1376 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:39:01pm

re: #1364 Racer X

The Mysterious Voynich Manuscript

The ancient text has no known title, no known author, and is written in no known language: what does it say and why does it have many astronomy illustrations?

This document is a fraud, and has been known to be a fraud since it was discovered at the beginning of the 1900's. It's too late for me to go into the details, but this is Fortean science of the worst kind.

1377 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:39:04pm

re: #1360 iceweasel

Well, even a stopped fucknut clock like yourself is right twice a day.

Hee hee.

I must have hit a nerve recently. Funny thing is - I honestly don't remember what it was I posted. LOL! I must be stupid too! LOL!

1378 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:39:30pm

re: #1369 LudwigVanQuixote

Very well, I shall write a stock response for you.

Walter you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education non existent. It is a waste of my time to address you. You are not worth it.

Pimf

1379 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:39:40pm

re: #1365 jotalot

this is weirdly fascinating. i can't stop reading it even though i'm appalled. something is wrong with me too.

It's like watching an entire city block implode. This is the ugliest exchange I've ever seen on LGF, bar none.

1380 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:40:11pm

re: #1363 Walter L. Newton

Not really. They can do whatever they want. Doesn't mean it's not transparent or pathetic though.

1381 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:40:11pm

re: #1361 TheMatrix31

Oh nice, Iceweasel and Jimmy are downdinging everything I say. But don't downding them, because they'll call you a stalker, or a compulsive dinger, or someone with an agenda, or whatever else they like to paint you as.

Hilarious coming from mr "Yes, I'm here for the nth night in a row downdinging every single comment by Jimmah and ice in this thread which I have no intention of participating in - is there something wrong with that?"

Keep it up, sonny!

1382 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:40:27pm

re: #1373 littleugly

Intervention from online friends is in order.

Good luck, Ludwig.

{SHARMUTA}

Why is the troll talking to me? Which part of go back to 2.0 where you belong did you miss?

1383 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:40:30pm

re: #1115 LudwigVanQuixote

Well Walter, since I have already answered that in detail for you at least five times with the papers to back it up, why not read that? I am very tired of your nonsense.

Uh, I asked you a question about oceanic CO2 saturation about a hundred insults ago. It was a scientific question. I went back and looked at what you posted. I haven't seen a response (I'm way behind, so I apologize if you responded and haven't seen it yet).

Notice scientific question, no hostility.

1384 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:40:48pm

Jimmah...yah ah helpin meh undahstand this better. you are funneh.

1385 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:41:28pm

re: #1369 LudwigVanQuixote

Ver well, I sahll write a stock response for you.

Wlater you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education no existent.

Wow... that stopped be dead in my tracks LOL... I haven't heard a diatribe that well structured (but watch your typing, when you get mad you begin to loose all touch with your motor skills, hand to eye goes to hell)... I like the triplet in the second sentence, it's a standard writers device, but solid in it's execution. But your last sentence lost all of it's impact because of the sloppy typing.

C+

1386 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:41:58pm

ding whores...yeah that's really important...ding up, ding down!...popularity freaks...the idea has been so misused it serves no function other than some high school notion of who's hip...you know who you are, fucked up Charles cool thing with your petty disapproval and vanity buttons...to hell with you all...too bad eh?...so prove me right and downding me...what a bunch of fucking babies

1387 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:42:11pm

re: #1375 Jimmah

Isn't it just downright laughable that after all the shit that has gone down here tonight, and before - the kapo comment, the baiting of Ludwig before he even got here, and all that has transpired since, a couple of wingnuts are still pretending to each other that this is all bad behaviour by some bad liberals.

Typical wingnut fucknut duplicity and hypocrisy. As I said earlier to fucknut Racer X:

Here's what you appear to 'get', Racer X, along with some of your fellow fucknuts here:

Mandy bullying new posters is great! It's funny when she tells people to google new posters' usernics, or reposts their comments and tells them to downding them even more!
Iceweasel calling her out on it? Oh that's BAD! That's the 'real' bullying!

Posters talking shit about iceweasel, spreading lies about her, and commenting about her when she's not present? Oh that's GREAT!
Iceweasel complaining about it? Oh no, that's BAD.

I hope you enjoy your trip to Oceania. It's clear you've been working on your doublethink and your doublespeak-- you and some other sanctimonious, hypocritical, double standard employing fucknuts here.

1388 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:42:14pm

re: #1380 TheMatrix31

Not really. They can do whatever they want. Doesn't mean it's not transparent or pathetic though.

I was being sarcastic, I agree totally with you.

1389 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:42:41pm

re: #1381 Jimmah

Yeah, that's exactly what I do. God forbid I click on a thread to read it and give my impressions on it through dings. Isn't that what the ding system is for? It's not my fuckin' fault that you two (along with a few other fuckers) constantly say shit that I don't like or agree with.

I don't get it, do you guys like, both sit with laptops on the same couch or something?

1391 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:44:26pm

re: #1386 albusteve

ding whores...yeah that's really important...ding up, ding down!...popularity freaks...the idea has been so misused it serves no function other than some high school notion of who's hip...you know who you are, fucked up Charles cool thing with your petty disapproval and vanity buttons...to hell with you all...too bad eh?...so prove me right and downding me...what a bunch of fucking babies

Er... sorry... but I had to up ding you for that... don't be mad at me... I wasn't trying to make you more popular... :)

1392 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:44:26pm

re: #1389 TheMatrix31

Yeah, that's exactly what I do. God forbid I click on a thread to read it and give my impressions on it through dings. Isn't that what the ding system is for? It's not my fuckin' fault that you two (along with a few other fuckers) constantly say shit that I don't like or agree with.

I don't get it, do you guys like, both sit with laptops on the same couch or something?

He's in Scotland right now, while she's on our side of the pond. They're getting their visa situation straightened out after their wedding in December.

1393 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:44:51pm

F**k this noise...I'm out for the night. If some of y'all want to keep hurling insults at each other like immature children and downding each other into oblivion, go right ahead, but don't think that there's not any repercussions on your credibility and respect with those who don't want to wade through all of this shit. I just hope it doesn't go supercritical...

/love y'all, mean it

1394 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:45:35pm

re: #1390 NJDhockeyfan

Contributions of Stratospheric Water Vapor to Decadal Changes in the Rate of Global Warming

Come on... Ludwig already told you that was debunked years ago, even though the paper was just published.

1395 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:45:52pm

re: #1387 iceweasel

Seriously? That was it?

I'm sorry that was just weak. I still don't remember what it was that I posted that got your panties all tied up. Probably because I could care less.

1396 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:46:23pm

re: #1389 TheMatrix31

Yeah, that's exactly what I do. God forbid I click on a thread to read it and give my impressions on it through dings. Isn't that what the ding system is for? It's not my fuckin' fault that you two (along with a few other fuckers) constantly say shit that I don't like or agree with.

I don't get it, do you guys like, both sit with laptops on the same couch or something?

Excuse me, you thudding cretin, but it was you who was boo-hooing about dinging just a few inches upthread. Yeah, that's what I was responding too.

Idiot.

1397 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:47:12pm

re: #1383 Unakite

Umm respectfully, I wrote twice about saturation to you and breaking of buffer systems. It is discussed in the tipping point paper at great length.

Here are some more useful papers to read:

[Link: www.nature.com...]

And since you are a geologist these are from the paleo record. There are hundreds of papers to look at. Why not do an ISI search or a Spires search?

[Link: adsabs.harvard.edu...]
[Link: www.nature.com...]

1398 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:47:29pm

re: #1395 Racer X

Seriously? That was it?

I'm sorry that was just weak. I still don't remember what it was that I posted that got your panties all tied up. Probably because I could care less.

Sure, fucknut. Your continual butthurt whining and defenses of bullshit and bullshit behaviour are what's weak.
But then, you did use up your quotient for getting things right today: when you announced you were stupid and called yourself an ass.

1399 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:48:01pm

re: #1394 Walter L. Newton

Come on... Ludwig already told you that was debunked years ago, even though the paper was just published.

Oops, sorry. My bad.

How do they debunk research papers years before they are written? Them AGW scientists are just amazing.

1400 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:48:08pm

re: #1395 Racer X

Couldn't care less. Gosh, don't you know how to speak proper English?!?!

/////few pretentious language-grammar whores

1401 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:48:16pm

re: #1396 Jimmah

Excuse me, you thudding cretin, but it was you who was boo-hooing about dinging just a few inches upthread. Yeah, that's what I was responding too.

Idiot.

heh. "thudding cretin" is going in my favourites list. :-)

1402 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:48:39pm

re: #1390 NJDhockeyfan

Contributions of Stratospheric Water Vapor to Decadal Changes in the Rate of Global Warming

And have you read that paper... Would you be sad to know that I just looked at it and it does not contradict AGW... You really are retarded.

1403 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:49:06pm

re: #1375 Jimmah

More one sided dishonesty from Jimmah the MeanBat™

1404 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:49:51pm

re: #1399 NJDhockeyfan

Oops, sorry. My bad.

How do they debunk research papers years before they are written? Them AGW scientists are just amazing.

No idiot, they debunked the MSM implication and the one you atre falsely making that this counter acts the truths of AGW. Why not read the paper? Lol. Ohhh that would require being able to read a paper.

1405 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:49:53pm

re: #1402 LudwigVanQuixote

And have you read that paper... Would you be sad to know that I just looked at it and it does not contradict AGW... You really are retarded.

There's that word again. How many degrees did you have to get to be able to post comments like that?

1406 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:50:07pm

re: #1399 NJDhockeyfan

Oops, sorry. My bad.

How do they debunk research papers years before they are written? Them AGW scientists are just amazing.

Yup... an amazin' bunch them are. You got to be carful, they'll sneek right ups behind ya and drop that Armageddon rights in your laps. Thens ya'll will be sorry.

1407 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:51:16pm

re: #1406 Walter L. Newton

Yup... an amazin' bunch them are. You got to be carful, they'll sneek right ups behind ya and drop that Armageddon rights in your laps. Thens ya'll will be sorry.

Watch out, Ludwig may call you retarded for that. It's his new word.

1408 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:51:19pm

Whatever is true, this thread didn't just spike the meter, it blew it apart at the welds. Ice, Jimmah, you folks are going to have to come up with a vid for a full-on trainwreck, because the follow, excellent thought it is, doesn't capture how nasty trhis thread has been:

1409 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:51:22pm

re: #1405 NJDhockeyfan

There's that word again. How many degrees did you have to get to be able to post comments like that?

Scientists are great with big words like that, special education and all.

1410 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:51:34pm

re: #1386 albusteve

ding whores...yeah that's really important...ding up, ding down!...popularity freaks...the idea has been so misused it serves no function other than some high school notion of who's hip...you know who you are, fucked up Charles cool thing with your petty disapproval and vanity buttons...to hell with you all...too bad eh?...so prove me right and downding me...what a bunch of fucking babies

Wise words there steve. lol Maybe someday you'll be kind enough to present us with a coherent idea. I'll let you off on the issue of sentence structure though - don't say I'm not good to you.

1411 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:52:01pm

re: #1405 NJDhockeyfan

There's that word again. How many degrees did you have to get to be able to post comments like that?

None actually. A reasonable middle schooler knows not to post a paper he hasn't read as evidence of something it does not actually say. And you still haven't read it yet have you?

That is why you are retarded.

1412 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:52:06pm

re: #1402 LudwigVanQuixote

And have you read that paper... Would you be sad to know that I just looked at it and it does not contradict AGW... You really are retarded.

Really, when I link to it you said...

Because it was bullshit then and still is now Hockey boy. It was even debunked here many times. Maybe you were too stupid to read the three threads that brought up the topic or remember when you yourself were shot down with it? Well stupid people have be told the same things over and over... Care to read actual science or are you just going to say you don't buy it and won't read?

Now, make up your mind?

1413 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:52:43pm

re: #1408 Dark_Falcon

Whatever is true, this thread didn't just spike the meter, it blew it apart at the welds. Ice, Jimmah, you folks are going to have to come up with a vid for a full-on trainwreck, because the follow, excellent thought it is, doesn't capture how nasty trhis thread has been:


[Video]

It's been insane DF. Nastiest thread I think I've ever seen here. Started up this morning too with some of the usual suspects talking shit about me before I even got here.

1414 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:52:46pm

The worst part about it is when all this stuff is done, everyone's going to go back to being fake and plastic with each other. That shouldn't be the case. None of this should go and just be dismissed later as if nothing happens or no one feels a certain way. That's pathetic.

1415 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:52:55pm

re: #1407 NJDhockeyfan

Watch out, Ludwig may call you retarded for that. It's his new word.

He wouldn't dare use that word for anyone I would hope.

1416 wee fury  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:53:41pm

re: #1386 albusteve

ding whores...yeah that's really important...ding up, ding down!...popularity freaks...the idea has been so misused it serves no function other than some high school notion of who's hip...you know who you are, fucked up Charles cool thing with your petty disapproval and vanity buttons...to hell with you all...too bad eh?...so prove me right and downding me...what a bunch of fucking babies

Ding A Ling

1417 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:53:43pm

re: #1412 Walter L. Newton

Now, make up your mind?

re: #1412 Walter L. Newton

Walter you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education non existent. It is a waste of my time to address you. You are not worth it.

1418 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:55:05pm

re: #1417 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #1412 Walter L. Newton

Walter you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education non existent. It is a waste of my time to address you. You are not worth it.

Much better... you slowed down your typing, took a breath, and that time your whole structure was much improved... I am going to reconsider the grade I gave you and revise it...

B+

1419 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:55:24pm

re: #1390 NJDhockeyfan

Contributions of Stratospheric Water Vapor to Decadal Changes in the Rate of Global Warming

Good link. Interesting paper.
I'm sure that Big Water had a hand in it, though.

1420 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:55:28pm

re: #1418 Walter L. Newton

Walter you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education non existent. It is a waste of my time to address you. You are not worth it.

1421 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:55:55pm

well....i waited a while to start posting on LGF b/c i thought I wouldn't be smart enough to hold my own here. that may still be true, but it's no longer apparent.

1422 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:56:23pm

re: #1419 Van Helsing

Good link. Interesting paper.
I'm sure that Big Water had a hand in it, though.

Fair enough, so if you have read that paper, you can plainly see that it does not contradict anything.

1423 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:56:27pm

re: #1398 iceweasel

I think you are confusing me with someone else. You keep referring to me as 'fucknut' or 'wingnut' and lumping me in with others here.

I am Racer X.
I am to the left of many here.
I am to the right of a few here.

I am not a Republican and never have been. I look at people for who they are, not what party or group I think they belong to.

I am not real fond of you or your husband. Mostly because of the tactics you use in pushing the buttons of other Lizards. I find it distasteful. Does not mean I have any anger towards you or your husband - I do not.

In the meat world we would probably get along just fine. I especially enjoy Jimmah's taste in music. Don't take anything I post to you or Jimmah personally - it is not. It is aimed at your on-line persona.

1424 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:56:40pm

re: #1408 Dark_Falcon

Whatever is true, this thread didn't just spike the meter, it blew it apart at the welds. Ice, Jimmah, you folks are going to have to come up with a vid for a full-on trainwreck, because the follow, excellent thought it is, doesn't capture how nasty trhis thread has been:


[Video]

Heh. The word I have in mind - courtesy of the very excellent British satirist Chris Morris - is "Braincrash".

1425 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:56:42pm

re: #1382 LudwigVanQuixote

Why is the troll talking to me? Which part of go back to 2.0 where you belong did you miss?

I do not post at 2.0, never have.

Ludwig, now I think that you are actually just another plant to discredit LGF.
I have this tingly feeling, Spiderman, not Mathews type that your uncouth behaviour is feigned.

Well, I have been wrong before.

petri

1426 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:56:59pm

re: #1391 Walter L. Newton

Er... sorry... but I had to up ding you for that... don't be mad at me... I wasn't trying to make you more popular... :)

you know what?...neither one of us is especially easy to get along with I suppose for obvious reasons anyone other than noobs can tell...but we locked horns, had a coupla fuck you's and moved on...there might be a lesson there to all this petty rivalry...I don't ding, and I could care less...bottom line is an asshole is an asshole for whatever reason and that reason has mostly to do with ego....I could really give a shit when some goofball takes the time to post that they are down dinging me...good fucking lord....as if that's supposed to impress me?....I have a life outside of blogs...down ding me all you want but it's more a reflection of your virtual insistence than my independence...it was a good idea that has been misused...and it represents some lurid popularity measure that I could care less about...tear yourselves apart LGF, I could give a shit....but I will say this...a former adversary and mutual hard ass is now my friend, and it had nothing to do with your stupid dings....I'd drink with Walter anytime, anyplace and the rest of you can go to hell...your dingshit means nothing

1427 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:57:25pm

re: #1414 TheMatrix31

The worst part about it is when all this stuff is done, everyone's going to go back to being fake and plastic with each other. That shouldn't be the case. None of this should go and just be dismissed later as if nothing happens or no one feels a certain way. That's pathetic.

Yes, as we all know, the best policy would be to do what Mongo31 does: seethe, log in late at night to compulsively downding certain people, and only comment on LGF when there's a chance of joining in on a pileon and fight.
I can see why you like this and think it's a great strategy, Mongo31. It's the one you've been employing here for several months.
I honestly can't remember the last time you joined a conversation in a constructive way, posted a useful link, or had anything to contribute other than your butthurt bitching.

1428 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:57:27pm

re: #1424 Jimmah

Heh. The word I have in mind - courtesy of the very excellent British satirist Chris Morris - is "Braincrash".

That works.

1429 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:57:43pm

re: #1423 Racer X

Something like this is not limited to an online persona.

Just my opinion, oh well.

1430 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:58:00pm

re: #1422 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough, so if you have read that paper, you can plainly see that it does not contradict anything.

Which is precisely what I said up thread about the paper when I posted the original link and Ludwig jump all over the science and called it wrong.

1431 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:58:57pm

re: #1430 Walter L. Newton

Walter you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education non existent. It is a waste of my time to address you. You are not worth it.

1432 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:58:58pm

re: #1423 Racer X


I am not real fond of you or your husband. Mostly because of the tactics you use in pushing the buttons of other Lizards. I find it distasteful. Does not mean I have any anger towards you or your husband - I do not.

Your persona is that of a hypocrite who applies doublestandards to the behaviours of those here.
Nothing personal, but that makes your persona a fucknut.

1433 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:59:53pm

re: #1427 iceweasel

Why contribute any of my opinion when all people like you are going to do is tell me that I'm a moron, I'm a racist, I'm ignorant, I'm butthurt, I'm a wingnut, or whatever catchy, clever, contrived bullshit that they come up with?

1434 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:00:03pm

re: #1423 Racer X

I think you are confusing me with someone else. You keep referring to me as 'fucknut' or 'wingnut' and lumping me in with others here.

I am Racer X.
I am to the left of many here.
I am to the right of a few here.

I am not a Republican and never have been. I look at people for who they are, not what party or group I think they belong to.

I am not real fond of you or your husband. Mostly because of the tactics you use in pushing the buttons of other Lizards. I find it distasteful. Does not mean I have any anger towards you or your husband - I do not.

In the meat world we would probably get along just fine. I especially enjoy Jimmah's taste in music. Don't take anything I post to you or Jimmah personally - it is not. It is aimed at your on-line persona.

You know what would really help in that case Racer X? If you stopped being such a full on, ultra partisan supporter of every wingnut grievance that crops up. That means, for example, not waiting till there's a stramash and then popping up to admonish any liberal posters who happen to be involved, regardless of how it began or the fact that they are just defending themselves.

1435 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:00:17pm

OK and now I have had enough.. I need to walk my dogs and get some sleep.

Ice, Jimmah, Olson, Df and all my other friends like Floral and SFZ, I will be back and I missed you guys when I was working. Be well.

1436 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:00:19pm

Hey...Ludwig...are you Dan Ankroyd? I mean that in a good way.

1437 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:00:32pm

re: #1431 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education non existent. It is a waste of my time to address you. You are not worth it.

Yawn... I'm going to bed... have fun... Oh, just in case anyone missed it...

Walter you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education non existent. It is a waste of my time to address you. You are not worth it.

Have one on me Ludwig.

1438 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:00:38pm

re: #1431 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education non existent. It is a waste of my time to address you. You are not worth it.

I've favourited this and think I may adopt it as well. May I do so?

1439 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:00:43pm

re: #1431 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter you are an ignorant git and blowhard. You are the worst of a pseudo intellectual, prone to flights of fancy that are likely the onset of senility. Your views are meaningless and your education non existent. It is a waste of my time to address you. You are not worth it.

not good enough...try again, this time with two paragraphs

1440 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:00:50pm

aykroyd...doh

1441 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:01:14pm

re: #1436 jotalot

Hey...Ludwig...are you Dan Ankroyd? I mean that in a good way.

I wish.. If you met me, I am much more Belushi - though alive and not into drugs or Gordon Lightfoot's ex....

1442 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:01:25pm

re: #1433 TheMatrix31

And excuse me if I "log in" (uh, I don't need to log in, I have my password and info saved) every night to read threads and ding where I feel appropriate. Sorry that I have other obligations that prevent me from staying here every goddamn minute of my day. Do we have to go over this again? I'm sick of that fucking argument!

1443 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:01:28pm

re: #1438 iceweasel

I've favourited this and think I may adopt it as well. May I do so?

Yes you may enjoy...

1444 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:01:33pm

re: #1426 albusteve

Welcome to Jamrock


- Damian Marley
1445 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:01:40pm

re: #1426 albusteve

...your dingshit means nothing

Interesting. For someone who professes to care so little about dingshit, it seems you be checking your dingshit rather often. Hmm....

1446 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:01:41pm

re: #1432 iceweasel

Your persona is that of a hypocrite who applies doublestandards to the behaviours of those here.
Nothing personal, but that makes your persona a fucknut.

Sorry Ice, but I can apply the same exact thing to you. We all do it - don't think you don't. Its petty and not worth wasting my time on. So I won't.

Have a nice day!

1447 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:01:59pm

re: #1439 albusteve

not good enough...try again, this time with two paragraphs

Just don't talk to me.

Really it would be better for both of us don't you think?

1448 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:02:18pm

re: #1438 iceweasel

I've favourited this and think I may adopt it as well. May I do so?

I would prefer if you came up with your own so I can quickly recognize who dropped which pile of bullshit?

1449 Van Helsing  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:02:28pm

re: #1422 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough, so if you have read that paper, you can plainly see that it does not contradict anything.

Stratospheric water vapor concentrations decreased by about 10% after the year 2000. Here, we show that this acted to slow the rate of increase in global surface temperature over 2000 to 2009 by about 25% compared to that which would have occurred due only to carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. More limited data suggest that stratospheric water vapor probably increased between 1980 and 2000, which would have enhanced the decadal rate of surface warming during the 1990s by about 30% compared to estimates neglecting this change. These findings show that stratospheric water vapor represents an important driver of decadal global surface climate change.

Doesn't contradict a thing, however it points to water vapor as a driver able to override the effect of CO2. Which I don't believe is in the models used during that time period.

1450 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:02:47pm

Hey,m anyone can contribute to global warming data!

Scientists want residents to help collect data

Wanted: citizen scientists to help collect data on the effects of global warming on plants and animals in the Santa Monica Mountains.

A recruiting drive for the project was held Saturday in Thousand Oaks in the form of a lecture given by Susan Mazer, an evolutionary biology professor at UC Santa Barbara, and Brian Haggerty, a doctorate candidate at the university who is studying evolutionary ecology.

“We need the public,” Mazer told the roughly 60 people who showed up at the National Park Service Visitor Center for the audio-visual presentation titled “Planting the Seeds for Citizen Scientists.”

“We really want coast-to-coast, eye-to-eye observations, the way the National Weather Service originally obtained our weather data,” she said.

1451 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:02:53pm

re: #1446 Racer X

Sorry Ice, but I can apply the same exact thing to you.

See, the point is, you can't.
Jimmah already dealt with this, and you, more than adequately above.

1452 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:03:22pm

re: #1437 Walter L. Newton

Goodnight Walter.

1453 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:03:38pm

re: #1434 Jimmah

You know what would really help in that case Racer X? If you stopped being such a full on, ultra partisan supporter of every wingnut grievance that crops up. That means, for example, not waiting till there's a stramash and then popping up to admonish any liberal posters who happen to be involved, regardless of how it began or the fact that they are just defending themselves.

Like you and Ice just did on this thread?

Yeah. Like that.

(ouch!)

;-)

1454 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:03:42pm

re: #1448 Walter L. Newton

I would prefer if you came up with your own so I can quickly recognize who dropped which pile of bullshit?

I wonder why you imagine that I'd take your preferences into account? Git.

1455 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:04:04pm

re: #1433 TheMatrix31

Why contribute any of my opinion when all people like you are going to do is tell me that I'm a moron, I'm a racist, I'm ignorant, I'm butthurt, I'm a wingnut, or whatever catchy, clever, contrived bullshit that they come up with?

Simple. Stop acting in a way that earns all those oh so nasty words, and they won';t be applied to you. I believe this has been explained to you before.

1456 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:04:43pm

re: #1445 Olsonist

Interesting. For someone who professes to care so little about dingshit, it seems you be checking your dingshit rather often. Hmm...

I've never once clicked my avatar...never
what the fuck are you talking about?

1457 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:05:26pm

re: #1453 Racer X

Like you and Ice just did on this thread?

Yeah. Like that.

(ouch!)

;-)

There you go again.

1458 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:05:30pm

re: #1455 Jimmah

If they're my opinions, they're my opinions. FUCK you for saying that I should change my opinions to suit YOUR preference of what I should be, so you don't have to use those motherfucking, goddamn words.

1459 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:05:49pm

re: #1447 LudwigVanQuixote

Just don't talk to me.

Really it would be better for both of us don't you think?

I don't care what you think...seems I own you eh?...can't stop?

1460 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:06:03pm

This sucks

Winter chill takes toll on Florida Keys coral

Reporting from Miami - January's bitter cold may have wiped out many of the shallow-water corals in the Florida Keys.

Scientists have only begun assessments, but initial reports are bleak. The damage could extend from Key Largo through the Dry Tortugas islands west of Key West, a vast expanse that covers some of the prettiest and healthiest reefs in North America.

Given the depth and duration of the frigid weather, Meaghan Johnson, marine science coordinator for the Nature Conservancy, expected to see losses. But she was stunned by the devastation when she joined a dive team surveying reefs in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. The divers were looking for "bleaching," a telltale indicator of temperature stress in corals.

Star and brain corals, large species that can take hundreds of years to grow, were as white and lifeless as bones, frozen to death, she said. Dead sea turtles, eels and parrotfish also littered the bottom.

"Corals didn't even have a chance to bleach. They just went straight to dead," Johnson said. "It's really ecosystem-wide mortality."

1461 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:07:42pm

re: #1456 albusteve

I've never once clicked my avatar...never
what the fuck are you talking about?

Your avatar will tell you about your karma. Your posts will tell you about your dingshit. You must be new around here.

1462 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:07:57pm

re: #1460 NJDhockeyfan

Winter chill takes toll on Florida Keys coral

Global Warming.

1463 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:08:41pm

re: #1461 Olsonist

Your avatar will tell you about your karma. Your posts will tell you about your dingshit. You must be new around here.

I know that...why are you lying about me?...you sound rather small

1464 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:09:03pm

re: #1458 TheMatrix31

If they're my opinions, they're my opinions. FUCK you for saying that I should change my opinions to suit YOUR preference of what I should be, so you don't have to use those motherfucking, goddamn words.

Stop being an idiot who relentlessly downdings posters you don't like, then whines like a baby when you get downdinged yourself. And start contributing your substantive opinions if indeed you have any. Got that?

1465 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:09:20pm

re: #1309 LudwigVanQuixote

Just don't talk to me Walter. Do not address me and I will try to ignore your presence.

Sorry, but as a bystander it's funny how you keep responding to the people you are ignoring (by the way, I'm a bystander because you, as a scientist, haven't answered my scientific question).

1466 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:09:40pm

re: #1458 TheMatrix31

Of course, you guys probably use my posts like they're porn. You get off on my anger, but fuck you two if you think I'll hold back how I really feel about your bullshit. Like HELL I won't respond the way I feel, even if it makes me look "weak", "crazy", "like a wingnut", "like a racist", "like a dogwhistling buffoon", like a "fucknut".

I don't act in any other fashion. If you want to assume, then take your assumptions and shove it.

1467 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:09:40pm

re: #1462 Bagua

Global Warming.

Global warming is almost responsible for more death & destruction than George Bush.

1468 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:09:41pm

I just want to say...

1469 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:09:54pm

re: #1463 albusteve

If you already know that then how exactly am I lying about you?

1470 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:10:00pm

re: #1464 Jimmah

Eat a fucking dick.

1471 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:10:12pm

re: #1465 Unakite

Sorry, but as a bystander it's funny how you keep responding to the people you are ignoring (by the way, I'm a bystander because you, as a scientist, haven't answered my scientific question).

we own Lud...he's our village idiot

1472 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:10:22pm

re: #1457 Jimmah

There you go again.

Racer X and some others are simply to stupid to understand that merely saying something isn't enough to make it true.
Thus we have various fuckwitted people whinging about how Mandy is being 'bullied'...when others point out that she's a bully.

Or preaching about how terrible, despicible, it is to 'talk about someone who isn't here!'-- but having zero problem doing that when it's a question about telling lies and bitching about iceweasel, or Ludwig, or anyone who doesn't play for Team Wingnut Fuckwit.

And so on. Kinda like Mongo31 wailing about being called a racist, not understanding that if he doesn't want to be called one, he should quit it with the racist remarks. Etc.

1473 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:10:43pm

re: #1468 Bagua

Bullshit. We can't get along when there are certain people intentionally aggravating each and every situation and twisting people's words and actions.

1474 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:11:00pm

re: #1471 albusteve

we own Lud...he's our village idiot


He really is a source of unlimited amusement and joy.

1475 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:11:08pm

re: #1457 Jimmah

There you go again.

I'm just pointing out that none of us are perfect. I'm certainly not. Tonight you and Ice have accused me of things that I have seen you both do. You both accuse others of things you both do. Don't call me a hypocrite then do the same thing.

1476 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:11:15pm

re: #1472 iceweasel

Show me ONE racist remark I've made. ONE.

1477 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:11:19pm

re: #1469 Olsonist

If you already know that then how exactly am I lying about you?

I know how the system works...why are you brazenly lying?

1478 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:11:42pm

re: #1470 TheMatrix31

Eat a fucking dick.

Mongo31 angry! lol

1479 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:12:05pm

re: #1473 TheMatrix31

Bullshit. We can't get along when there are certain people intentionally aggravating each and every situation and twisting people's words and actions.

I know, but don't let them get to you. Just laugh at them, it is so pitiful.

1480 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:12:24pm

Deepak Lal: Man-made global warmingre: #1474 Bagua

He really is a source of unlimited amusement and joy.

I smell a reality show.

1481 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:12:31pm

re: #1477 albusteve

I know how the system works...why are you brazenly lying?

Dang Steve. You can do better than that. Try harder.

1482 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:12:32pm

What is this mongo shit, anyway?

1483 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:12:38pm

re: #1470 TheMatrix31

Eat a fucking dick.

Doesn't look like you are taking my advice so far. See this sort of thing is why people have issues with you, dear Mongo.

1484 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:12:38pm

re: #1454 iceweasel

I wonder why you imagine that I'd take your preferences into account? Git.

Ohh ugh.

1485 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:12:55pm

re: #1475 Racer X

I'm just pointing out that none of us are perfect. I'm certainly not. Tonight you and Ice have accused me of things that I have seen you both do. You both accuse others of things you both do.


Sorry, you've made that claim before, and in each instance you've been rather hilariously wrong. Like this morning. :)

This is what makes you a fuckwitted hypocrite.

1486 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:13:22pm

re: #1482 TheMatrix31

What is this mongo shit, anyway?

Blazing Saddles?

1487 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:13:38pm

re: #1483 Jimmah

Fuck you if you think I'm EVER going to take you or your wife's advice on ANYTHING.

1488 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:13:42pm

Is it OK to ridicule each others nick now?

1489 jaunte  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:13:53pm

re: #1486 NJDhockeyfan

Too many beans.

1490 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:13:54pm

re: #1484 littleugly

Ohh ugh.

Shouldn't you be back over on 2.0 again, littleugly?

1491 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:14:00pm

re: #1486 NJDhockeyfan

Steve "Mongo" McMichael?

1492 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:14:21pm

re: #1462 Bagua

No, it's El Nino. When it hits, temperatures can get colder than normal in the US, while being warmer in South America. It's an occasional climate variation caused by the slackening of the Southern Hemisphere Trade Winds and subsequent displacement of the cold Humboldt Current.

1493 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:14:23pm

re: #1480 NJDhockeyfan

Deepak Lal: Man-made global warming

I smell a reality show.

Get the title straight though, it is 'Mann made global warming'.

1494 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:14:29pm

Deepak Lal: Man-made global warming

It has been a bad two months for the purveyors of the “science” of manmade global warming. The BASIC group of countries (Brazil, South Africa, India and China) stood firm at Copenhagen from being bounced into an agreement on mandatory carbon emission cuts. With the Democrat’s defeat in Massachusetts, there is little hope of President Barack Obama pursuing the US climate change Bill, leaving Europe — particularly the UK — out on a limb with their legislation of targets for savage CO2 emission cuts which, if implemented, will lead to their rapid descent into the Stone Age.

But an equally important drama has been playing in New Delhi with Dr Rajendra Pachauri, the head of the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), having to retract various purportedly “scientific” claims made in the panel’s 2007 report. The one which has rightly come to the fore in India is Glaciergate, concerning the IPCC’s claim that the Himalayan glaciers would melt by 2035. When the government-sponsored report by eminent Indian glaciologist Dr Vijaya Raina came out in November, saying that the IPCC’s claims were baseless and recklessly alarmist, it was dismissed by Dr Pachauri, a railway engineer with a PhD in economics, as being “arrogant” and “voodoo science”. Subsequently, he had to eat crow as he and the IPCC had to admit that their predictions about Himalayan glaciers were without scientific foundations.

[snip]

1495 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:14:59pm

re: #1481 Olsonist

Dang Steve. You can do better than that. Try harder.

why are you lying?...there is no reason to make something like that up...is there a way you can chech how often I click my avatar?...your cred just crashed, and for no good reason

1496 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:16:25pm

re: #1476 TheMatrix31

I'm waiting. You gonna show me or are you gonna continue to make baseless accusations and continue painting me and every other conservative as a racist wingnut?

I'M WAITING.

1497 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:16:26pm

re: #1485 iceweasel

Sorry, you've made that claim before, and in each instance you've been rather hilariously wrong. Like this morning. :)

This is what makes you a fuckwitted hypocrite.

I have no idea what you are talking about 'this morning'. Whatever. I'm done with you. You cannot take criticism - at all. Good luck with that. Hope Jimmy is paying attention.

1498 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:16:32pm

re: #1492 Dark_Falcon

No, it's El Nino. When it hits, temperatures can get colder than normal in the US, while being warmer in South America. It's an occasional climate variation caused by the slackening of the Southern Hemisphere Trade Winds and subsequent displacement of the cold Humboldt Current.

It was a pun DF.

Don't you know it is always just the weather when it is cold, and it is Global Warming when it is hot? It's a scientific fact you know.

1499 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:17:38pm

re: #1497 Racer X


"It's just people who have daddy issues, brooooooo."

//

1500 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:17:45pm

re: #1495 albusteve

Having some reading comprehension problems again are you, Steve? Try reading what I've written one more time, or perhaps reading them one time. You brought up the avatar and I haven't even seen the movie. But you do seem rather concerned about your dingshit. I'll give you that.

1501 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:18:18pm

re: #1499 TheMatrix31

"It's just people who have daddy issues, brooo."

//

I guess.

My butt itches.

1502 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:18:28pm

Well, just watching from afar, this has turned into a self-righteous little flame war on both sides, hasn't it?

As Charles has suggested again and again, just go to

[Link: www.realclimate.org...]

And get yourselves edjamicated.

Read the science. It's easy and it's free!

1503 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:19:23pm

re: #1501 Racer X

It itches when it hurts?!

//

1504 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:19:27pm

Obdicut...
Interesting. For someone who professes to care so little about dingshit, it seems you be checking your dingshit rather often. Hmm...

#1445....how do you explain this?

1505 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:19:59pm

re: #1475 Racer X

I'm just pointing out that none of us are perfect. I'm certainly not. Tonight you and Ice have accused me of things that I have seen you both do. You both accuse others of things you both do. Don't call me a hypocrite then do the same thing.

Yeah we get it Racer - "me good, you bad". Despite the fact that it's perfectly obvious to anyone with more than two neurons to rub together and a memory exceeding that of a goldfish that my 'accusation' is nothing but a stone cold observation of how you behave here. Let me know when you have something new or interesting to say.

1506 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:20:03pm

re: #1502 austin_blue

Sad part - I think most of the players today agree that AGW is real and a big problem. It just got way too personal and nasty.

1507 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:20:36pm

re: #1500 Olsonist

Having some reading comprehension problems again are you, Steve? Try reading what I've written one more time, or perhaps reading them one time. You brought up the avatar and I haven't even seen the movie. But you do seem rather concerned about your dingshit. I'll give you that.

you are a liar...really a shame, as i was getting used to you...explain what you posted

1508 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:20:41pm

re: #1497 Racer X

I have no idea what you are talking about 'this morning'. Whatever. I'm done with you. You cannot take criticism - at all. Good luck with that. Hope Jimmy is paying attention.

Of course you 'don't remember.' You choose to ignore where your behaviour is inconsistent, pretend not to notice when it's called out, and when all else fails, deny, deny, deny. This is what makes you not merely a hypocrite, but a fuckwitted one.

BTW, nice little ad feminem slur there at the end. Also always nice to see it when the masks drop and the fucknuts admit what's really bothering them about me and Jimmah: pure butthurt envy, jealousy, and spite.
Later, fucknut.

1509 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:20:52pm

re: #1492 Dark_Falcon

No, it's El Nino. When it hits, temperatures can get colder than normal in the US, while being warmer in South America. It's an occasional climate variation caused by the slackening of the Southern Hemisphere Trade Winds and subsequent displacement of the cold Humboldt Current.

Hey, DF, I think people's dander is up to the point that rational thought, like Elvis, has left the building.

1510 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:21:33pm

re: #1505 Jimmah

Yeah I get it Jimmah - "me good, you bad". Despite the fact that it's perfectly obvious to anyone with more than two neurons to rub together and a memory exceeding that of a goldfish that my 'accusation' is nothing but a stone cold observation of how you and Ice behave here. Let me know when you have something new or interesting to say.

See how that works both ways?

Done now.

1511 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:21:39pm

re: #1491 TheMatrix31

Steve "Mongo" McMichael?

He was part of the Bears 1985 Super Bowl Champion team, so iceweasel wouldn't be comparing you to him unless she meant to complement you. Insulting a member of one the few Chicago teams to actually win a championship is taken very badly Chicagoland, and ice wouldn't serve up that kind of backhand to me (I hope). I'm certain she's reffering to Mongo from Blazing Saddles:

1512 wee fury  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:21:48pm

Big bad moon blazing away
making people howl, rant, growl and say
*&^%$ @#%* ^%*(###!

1513 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:21:53pm

re: #1496 TheMatrix31

I'm waiting. You gonna show me or are you gonna continue to make baseless accusations and continue painting me and every other conservative as a racist wingnut?

I'M WAITING.

Mongo now turn on self! BAD MONGO!

1514 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:22:14pm

re: #1487 TheMatrix31

Fuck you if you think I'm EVER going to take you or your wife's advice on ANYTHING.

Come on Matrix, you can do better.

1515 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:22:32pm

re: #1509 austin_blue

Hey, DF, I think people's dander is up to the point that rational thought, like Elvis, has left the building.


*waves hand wildly* I have some rational thought!!!...i just can't think of it right now.

1516 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:23:41pm

re: #1499 TheMatrix31

"It's just people who have daddy issues, brooo."

//

That's a nice one, Mongo. Certainly a way to disprove the accusation that you've got nothing but random carping, butthurt whining, and insults to contribute.

And if we're going to get personal-- may I say that your whining posts about women, and your inability to find a girlfriend, are perhaps related.

1517 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:23:56pm

re: #1513 Jimmah

You guys gonna answer my fucking question, or not?

1518 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:24:00pm

re: #1498 Bagua

It was a pun DF.

Don't you know it is always just the weather when it is cold, and it is Global Warming when it is hot? It's a scientific fact you know.

[facepalm] Nobody has said anything like that and you know it.

1519 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:24:19pm

re: #1508 iceweasel

Of course you 'don't remember.' You choose to ignore where your behaviour is inconsistent, pretend not to notice when it's called out, and when all else fails, deny, deny, deny. This is what makes you not merely a hypocrite, but a fuckwitted one.

BTW, nice little ad feminem slur there at the end. Also always nice to see it when the masks drop and the fucknuts admit what's really bothering them about me and Jimmah: pure butthurt envy, jealousy, and spite.
Later, fucknut.

Ad feminem slur? I pointed out you do not take criticism well. I could have said the same thing about you if you were male. How is that sexist?

Do you always insult people you disagree with? It is very rude btw.

1520 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:24:43pm

re: #1510 Racer X

Done now.

You keep saying that, but how can we miss you if you don't go away?

This is how you earn the title of 'fuckwit'.

1521 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:24:58pm

re: #1516 iceweasel

What are you TALKING about?

Honestly, have I ever talked about women on here? Serious question. Where are you getting this from?

1522 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:24:59pm

re: #1312 LudwigVanQuixote

Well that's fair. As a geologist, you no doubt know of Milankovitch cycles and that we should be cooling right now as per those. As such, how do you account for the warming? Moreover, since the process is really just basic QM and Thermo, how do you dispute it?

First, I do. Second, you (not personal you, just general you) are trying to take a small trend over a limited period of time (geologically) and extrapolate the end of mankind, but don't address the possibility of this being a statistically insignificant variation in longer-term cycles.

In essence, you are saying that the earth should be cooling in a Milankovitch cycle and warming over the last century is significant (and proves global warming), But the trend has been cooling over the last decade and that's insignificant (and still proves global warming).

1523 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:25:10pm

Damn. My butt does hurt now.

Smell my finger.

1524 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:25:17pm

re: #1518 Dark_Falcon

[facepalm] Nobody has said anything like that and you know it.

Pun, DF, pun. Don't be so literal, threads too weird for anything except humour at this point.

1525 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:25:30pm

re: #1514 littleugly

Would you please return to the stalker blog and quite bothering us?

1526 Olsonist  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:25:37pm

re: #1504 albusteve

Obdicut...
Interesting. For someone who professes to care so little about dingshit, it seems you be checking your dingshit rather often. Hmm...

#1445...how do you explain this?

I'm not sure who Obdicut is but I'm sure he or she is quite charming.

But I'll answer your question for Obdicut. You posted in re: #1426 albusteve a nice little rant about dings. A simple inference can be drawn from that that you be checking your dingshit. If you really don't care about your dingshit, don't check it. Really. Unless you care about your dingshit? Sounds clear? It is.

1527 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:25:57pm

re: #1513 Jimmah

Mongo now turn on self! BAD MONGO!

hahaha-- Mongo have Daddy issues, brooooo.
probably mommy too.

1528 wee fury  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:26:13pm

Will Charles just delete this entire thread, I wonder.

1529 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:26:17pm

re: #1510 Racer X

Yeah I get it Jimmah - "me good, you bad". Despite the fact that it's perfectly obvious to anyone with more than two neurons to rub together and a memory exceeding that of a goldfish that my 'accusation' is nothing but a stone cold observation of how you and Ice behave here. Let me know when you have something new or interesting to say.

See how that works both ways?

Done now.

WTF? lol

No, you'll have to do a little better than that. You always breeze into threads where there are heated words being exchanged and bewail the lack of cilvility etc, but always aiming your criticisms at whatever liberal posters happen to be involved. Ice and I are usually the ones on the recieving end of the attacks. We do NOT go around behaving in that way - we have no such MO, as you well know.

I am flattered though that when challenged to come up with something new or interesting to say, the best you could do was quote me.

1530 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:26:31pm

re: #1490 iceweasel

Shouldn't you be back over on 2.0 again, littleugly?

Ohh, ugh to the second power.

1531 avanti  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:26:44pm

re: #1522 Unakite

First, I do. Second, you (not personal you, just general you) are trying to take a small trend over a limited period of time (geologically) and extrapolate the end of mankind, but don't address the possibility of this being a statistically insignificant variation in longer-term cycles.

In essence, you are saying that the earth should be cooling in a Milankovitch cycle and warming over the last century is significant (and proves global warming), But the trend has been cooling over the last decade and that's insignificant (and still proves global warming).

Minor correction, there has been no cooling in the last decade, just less warming, but still the warmest years in a century.

1532 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:26:56pm

re: #1524 Bagua

Pun, DF, pun. Don't be so literal, threads too weird for anything except humour at this point.

Humor is unwise right now. With tempers as hot as they are, its liable to be taken as an insult. I will upding you though, to compensate for the prior downding.

1533 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:26:59pm

I officially nominate this song as the anthem for this thread.

1534 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:27:18pm

re: #1527 iceweasel

Oh cool, insulting my parents again. Are you like idioma?

1535 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:27:52pm

re: #1520 iceweasel

So, is it OK to hurl insults at each other now on every post? Please tell me its OK, because I can be very good at it. And nasty.

Is it OK? Or will you whine about being beat up on?

Wait a minute - you do that because YOUR BUTT HURTS!

LOL!

I get it now. Sorry, I'm a little slow.

Hee hee.

1536 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:27:53pm

re: #1532 Dark_Falcon

Humor is unwise right now. With tempers as hot as they are, its liable to be taken as an insult. I will upding you though, to compensate for the prior downding.

Humour is always wise my friend, much better than wild anger and hostility.

1537 albusteve  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:28:40pm

I'm out like Sonny Liston...but wait
Obdicut is a liar and a cheat...
Lud is an insufferable ass and a fraud
Walter is as cool as ice when he wants to be...
and it pisses people offre: #1526 Olsonist

I'm not sure who Obdicut is but I'm sure he or she is quite charming.

But I'll answer your question for Obdicut. You posted in re: #1426 albusteve a nice little rant about dings. A simple inference can be drawn from that that you be checking your dingshit. If you really don't care about your dingshit, don't check it. Really. Unless you care about your dingshit? Sounds clear? It is.

I've never clicked my football...your jr high inference is wrong...amazing eh?

1538 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:29:30pm

re: #1537 albusteve

Hey, what about Bagua?

1539 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:29:43pm

re: #1535 Racer X

You're extremely slow.
For example, you've said a few times that you're 'done now'.
Hence, not even a half-wit or an eighth-wit, but a fuckwit.

1540 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:30:14pm

I'm still waiting for the posts pertaining to my apparent racism or my "rough time" with women.

1541 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:30:17pm

It's late. Thanks for the entertaining debating this evening.

Stay warm!

1542 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:30:44pm

re: #1539 iceweasel

How many times have you said "good night" only to insult us with your presence for like, three more hours?

1543 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:31:32pm

re: #1542 TheMatrix31

How many times have you said "good night" only to insult us with your presence for like, three more hours?

Sorry, Mongo, I've been ignoring you. Did you have a contribution? Other than your butthurt carping and crying?

1544 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:32:10pm

re: #1543 iceweasel

Are you going to answer my goddamn questions or are you going to continue painting me?

1545 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:32:17pm

re: #1535 Racer X

So, is it OK to hurl insults at each other now on every post? Please tell me its OK, because I can be very good at it. And nasty.

Is it OK? Or will you whine about being beat up on?

Wait a minute - you do that because YOUR BUTT HURTS!

LOL!

I get it now. Sorry, I'm a little slow.

Hee hee.

Oh please, like ice and I are not used to insults. Bring it on. Give it your best. I promise I'll try not to laugh too much.

1546 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:32:31pm

re: #1408 Dark_Falcon

Whatever is true, this thread didn't just spike the meter, it blew it apart at the welds. Ice, Jimmah, you folks are going to have to come up with a vid for a full-on trainwreck, because the follow, excellent thought it is, doesn't capture how nasty trhis thread has been:


[Video]

Just for the record, you gave me a big butthurt a few nights ago (and deserved), and I apologized. And I didn't even insult anyone personally (that I remember).This is one of the most contentious threads I've seen in a while, and I have tried to stick to the science (right or wrong). I think I'm just going to get a couple of beers and pull up a chair (oops, I already did). :)

1547 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:33:27pm

re: #1545 Jimmah

Oh please, like ice and I are not used to insults. Bring it on. Give it your best. I promise I'll try not to laugh too much.

Ha! Seriously. What a tool.

1548 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:33:38pm

1476 and 1521.

1549 Racer X  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:33:56pm

re: #1539 iceweasel

I was going to type out a very nasty reply with insults and all. But no. I'm better than that. I'm better than you. Truth.

Good nite!

1550 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:35:20pm

gnight jim bob......

1551 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:35:53pm

re: #1549 Racer X

I was going to type out a very nasty reply with insults and all. But no. I'm better than that. I'm better than you. Truth.

Good nite!

Good night Racer X, good on you for rising above the invectives.

1552 jotalot  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:35:54pm

*waves tiredly* Imma come back sometime...and try this again.

1553 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:36:40pm

re: #1551 Bagua

I wish I could do it like that. Unfortunately, this is how I do things.

1554 Silvergirl  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:37:35pm

re: #1488 Bagua

Is it OK to ridicule each others nick now?

Sadly, it looks like an acceptable pastime.

I don't like it in politics either. Like the Obama with a 0 instead of an O, and Nobama and McCan't and Shrillary, etc.

Charles once posted how baffling it was for people to call him Chuck and Chucky, and wondered where that even comes from.

Nicknames that are acceptable alternates to the person's actual nick are endearing, but the mockery that passes for humor is just low.

1555 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:37:56pm

re: #1549 Racer X

I was going to type out a very nasty reply with insults and all. But no. I'm better than that. I'm better than you. Truth.

Good nite!

Goodnight, brave Sir Robin!

1556 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:38:33pm


Bad Weather

1557 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:40:28pm

re: #1551 Bagua

Good night Racer X, good on you for rising above the invectives.

Like "kapo", for example? Yes thanks for those saintly words of wisdom Bagua. Truly, you are the person to be giving such advice here tonight.

1558 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:40:52pm

re: #1549 Racer X

I was going to type out a very nasty reply with insults and all.

Sure you were. Uh-huh. I'm sure it would have been devastatingly intelligent, eloquent, and have demolished us both.
And then, a horde of trained flying monkeys were going bring you the "YOU WON THE INTERNETS" award. In your mansion.

re: #1549 Racer X

But no. I'm better than that. I'm better than you.

As pointed out earlier, merely saying something doesn't make it so.
But you can fall asleep hugging your tatty stuffed monkey and murmur softly to it all about that nasty flamewar you just won on the internets, drooling lightly onto its matted fur as you whisper "I would have said something smart, really!" while you sink into the dreamless yet fretful sleep of the fuckwit.

Good night, sweet fucknut!
Parting is such sweet, sweet sorrow,
that you'll be fretting about your butthurt
long after tomorrow.

1559 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:41:07pm

re: #1555 Jimmah

Goodnight, brave Sir Robin!


[Video]

That ain't nice, Jimmah.

1560 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:41:19pm

re: #1554 Silvergirl

Well said Silvergirl.

1561 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:42:09pm

1476 and 1521.

1562 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:42:59pm

re: #1559 Dark_Falcon

That ain't nice, Jimmah.

Racer X has been quite unpleasant for some time, DF.

1563 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:43:34pm

re: #1559 Dark_Falcon

That ain't nice, Jimmah.

Been a while since I've a thread like this one.

1564 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:43:54pm

re: #1557 Jimmah

Meanbat™ is still on the attack eh? Do you ever let the hostility go when you're on the scent of blood?

Lighten up a bit, you'll feel better.

1565 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:44:00pm

re: #1525 Dark_Falcon

Would you please return to the stalker blog and quite bothering us?

I do not post at 2.0.

DF, what is your problem?

What would cause you to try to get me banned?

1566 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:44:10pm

re: #1562 iceweasel

Racer X is probably the most civil person on this blog.

1567 Bagua  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:45:31pm

This is the part where we are all supposed to make up and buy another round of drinks.

1568 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:46:18pm

re: #1565 littleugly

I do not post at 2.0.

DF, what is your problem?

What would cause you to try to get me banned?

You reek of sock, littleugly. The most truthful thing about you appears to be your username.

1569 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:47:09pm

re: #1565 littleugly

The fact that so much of your posting seems to be snark and attempts to fan the flames. That led several people here to conclude that you are an agent provocateur (a phrase I rarely get a chance to use).

1570 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:47:20pm

re: #1566 TheMatrix31

Racer X is probably the most civil person on this blog.

Well, I'll be waiting for Mongo's Advice on Internets Etiquette any day now.
I'm sure it will be a rousing success.

1571 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:47:37pm

re: #1567 Bagua

Yeah, right.

1572 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:48:19pm

re: #1570 iceweasel

I didn't say anything about myself.

1573 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:48:59pm

re: #1565 littleugly

I do not post at 2.0.

DF, what is your problem?

What would cause you to try to get me banned?

I and quite a few others think you are. I've never been wrong about socks from 2.0- I trust my sniffer on this one.

1574 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:49:17pm

re: #1251 Walter L. Newton

Evidently nothing more insightful than what you were capable of posting.

Downdings for dissing SFZ, who is way more chill and polite and even keel than you.

1575 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:49:58pm

re: #1201 Walter L. Newton

Honestly, you display absolutely zero professionalism in your manner and approach to debating a issue. You would make Newton and Liebniz ashamed, and they were master debaters and so very capable of stating their science without taking it to the level of malice.

Pay close attention, you show malice toward you fellow man, you actually have a hate, a hatred of anyone who doesn't see things the way you do, doesn't parrot back the science the way you do or value the same things you do.

I will actually suggest that you go back to Talmud, go back to the writing of the Rebbe's, look over the commentaries and learn something about wisdom.

I wish only good for you, but you have to start finding a little love for those who don't see things the way you do. Otherwise, you are going to grow up to be a very lonely old man.

This is a concern troll.

1576 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:50:07pm

re: #1570 iceweasel

Well, I'll be waiting for Mongo's Advice on Internets Etiquette any day now.
I'm sure it will be a rousing success.

Actually, littleugly is Mongo. To borrow from the movie: "Littleugly just pawn, in big, sick, blogstalking."

Shame he didn't show up this morning. I washed my socks this morning and I'd have been happy to add a suckpuppet to the laundry. ;)

1577 Unakite  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:51:16pm

re: #1531 avanti

Minor correction, there has been no cooling in the last decade, just less warming, but still the warmest years in a century.

Thank you. You corrected me and we may disagree on some things, but this has been the most civil dialogue in, oh.......600 posts?? :)

1578 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:51:21pm

1476 and 1521.

1579 The Left  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:53:02pm

re: #1576 Dark_Falcon

Actually, littleugly is Mongo. To borrow from the movie: "Littleugly just pawn, in big, sick, blogstalking."

Shame he didn't show up this morning. I washed my socks this morning and I'd have been happy to add a suckpuppet to the laundry. ;)

Ah, I could believe that. Mongo does have another sock that mysteriously appeared one night to make some interesting downdings, on a night when Mongo was already being called out for doing that. Should be interesting to see what otherwise 'inactive' posters turn up later to downding.

littleugly is certainly a sock. The attempt to pick a fight with you, of all people, makes it pretty clear. Not that it wasn't clear already.

1580 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:55:14pm

re: #1579 iceweasel

So you think that guy was my sockpuppet? Wanna ask Charles to check out that assertion, or will it go into the pile as the third baseless fucking accusation you've made about me in the past 120 posts?

1581 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:55:52pm

re: #1465 Unakite

Sorry, but as a bystander it's funny how you keep responding to the people you are ignoring (by the way, I'm a bystander because you, as a scientist, haven't answered my scientific question).

Umm excuse me... It was answered four times with multiple links... What is wrong with you?

1582 littleugly  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:56:46pm

re: #1525 Dark_Falcon

Would you please return to the stalker blog and quite bothering us?

DF and Jimmah,

I doubt that you will read this but my

#1514 was meant to scold MATRIX, not agree with.

1583 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:58:09pm

re: #1522 Unakite

First, I do. Second, you (not personal you, just general you) are trying to take a small trend over a limited period of time (geologically) and extrapolate the end of mankind, but don't address the possibility of this being a statistically insignificant variation in longer-term cycles.

In essence, you are saying that the earth should be cooling in a Milankovitch cycle and warming over the last century is significant (and proves global warming), But the trend has been cooling over the last decade and that's insignificant (and still proves global warming).

No I said a great deal more than that. I actually laid out the whole story pretty well. Do they not teach geology people basic physics any more? I laid out very clearly how CO2 is a GHG and it drives the warming and I further gave you multiple links as to the feedbacks and the consequences. You are just being a troll now.

If you are an actual scientist, then read the science. People in science know when to read things they know nothing of before commenting.

1584 Aye Pod  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:58:54pm

re: #1580 TheMatrix31

So you think that guy was my sockpuppet? Wanna ask Charles to check out that assertion, or will it go into the pile as the third baseless fucking accusation you've made about me in the past 120 posts?

I'll ask him. Just to be sure.

1585 TheMatrix31  Sat, Jan 30, 2010 11:59:24pm

re: #1584 Jimmah

Let me know what happens.

1586 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:02:14am

1476 and 1521.

1587 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:04:47am

re: #1580 TheMatrix31

as the third baseless fucking accusation you've made about me in the past 120 posts?

Guy who was claiming I have "Daddy issues" says what?

I have a post coming up for you, Mongo. Stick around.

1588 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:05:26am

re: #1575 WindUpBird

This is a concern troll.

Yep. Nearly bit my head off one night when I suggested he was an AGW sceptic. Hilarious but true.

1589 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:07:55am

re: #1579 iceweasel

Ah, I could believe that. Mongo does have another sock that mysteriously appeared one night to make some interesting downdings, on a night when Mongo was already being called out for doing that. Should be interesting to see what otherwise 'inactive' posters turn up later to downding.

littleugly is certainly a sock. The attempt to pick a fight with you, of all people, makes it pretty clear. Not that it wasn't clear already.

To be fair, ice, I'm pretty sure that Matrix has no sockpuppets. I think Ludwig called it correctly, it's the guy who has this as his theme music:

1590 Unakite  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:09:45am

re: #1581 LudwigVanQuixote

Umm excuse me... It was answered four times with multiple links... What is wrong with you?

All right, FUCK YOU! Did you read my posts or were you too busy insulting everyone else? I looked through your links. I did not find one for CO2 saturation. All I asked was if you could point it out to me. FUCK YOU (seems to be the underlying tone of this thread).

1591 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:10:22am

re: #1587 iceweasel

I didn't say you had daddy issues. I was making a joke because a lot of people here have been throwing that around as an insult towards others. That's why I put it in quotes.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Just in case you don't believe me.

1592 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:14:23am

re: #1591 TheMatrix31

I didn't say you had daddy issues. I was making a joke because a lot of people here have been throwing that around as an insult towards others. That's why I put it in quotes.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Just in case you don't believe me.

What the fuck is linking back to the comment she is berating you for supposed to prove?

FAIL.

1593 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:16:44am

re: #1592 Jimmah

It's just easier for her to go look at it, and for others to see my point so they don't believe her latest twisting of my words.

BTW. 1476. 1521.

1594 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:19:33am

re: #1579 iceweasel

Ah, I could believe that. Mongo does have another sock that mysteriously appeared one night to make some interesting downdings, on a night when Mongo was already being called out for doing that. Should be interesting to see what otherwise 'inactive' posters turn up later to downding.

littleugly is certainly a sock. The attempt to pick a fight with you, of all people, makes it pretty clear. Not that it wasn't clear already.


Classic, all I can say to you Dark Falcon is;
Bus, wheels,
When hunting make sure you hold the rifle, not the cartridges.

{SHARMUTA}

1595 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:19:49am

re: #1585 TheMatrix31

All right, Matrix. See, I'm not even calling you names here, because this is a serious post which is meant well, though I highly doubt you'll take it that way, nor that anyone will give me credit for it.

I think you have some serious anger issues. I've been interacting with you for a while now, and you've been more or less unrelentingly hostile towards me and some others here. Even though I once helped you with a paper of yours-- remember that? I do.

You're a young guy. In college or just recently out, right? You're way too young to have this much simmering anger and resentment. You express it here in your comments, and in your weird downdings. It's clear you haven't been happy with the way the commentariat here has changed, but I was serious when I said you seem to use this place as a way to deal with your misplaced aggression. I can't remember the last time you contributing anything that wasn't nasty.

I feel bad for you, often. Sure, I only know this (unpleasant) internet persona of yours, but I've still often thought that you seem sometimes to be in training for growing up to be an angry, old, lonely man.
Lighten up. It's the internet. It has many uses and they don't all have to be hostile.

I've also wondered sometimes why you're like this. I don't know-- I don't know you. I do remember you posting once about your sister's birthday. Remember that? It was in a rapidly moving thread, and everyone ignored you.

Except me. I offered you my condolences about her. I don't know if you ever even saw it, but often I think you did and it's only made you resent and dislike me more-- that I would be kind to you when you've gone out of your way to be unrelentingly shitty towards me.
If this comment embarrasses you or strikes you as inappropriate, my apologies. Report it and ask CJ to delete it and I will too. My intent hasn't been to pick at you in this comment or make you feel bad-- but I do think you might have some issues to work on, and I wish you luck with them.

1596 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:22:26am

re: #1593 TheMatrix31

It's just easier for her to go look at it, and for others to see my point so they don't believe her latest twisting of my words.

BTW. 1476. 1521.

She's already seen it for fuck's sake. Good grief.

Put it in quotes all you like - it doesn't stop it from being a very shitty comment. One that should not be used against a girl, unless it's between people who have established that such comment wont be taken as offensive - which this clearly WASN'T.

1597 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:22:43am

re: #1594 littleugly

OK, based on that comment, I think I was wrong about who we have with us. I think this is one of taxfreekiller's remaining sockpuppets. The freeverse poetics are his style.

1598 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:23:30am

re: #1595 iceweasel

That's cool. You have your opinion about me and my habits, and that's fine. Clearly, I have mine about yours.

I don't use this as an outlet for my frustration. Often times, some posts are the SOURCE of my frustration. There isn't any latent anger or discontent that is being let out here. Everything I show is all about what's going on at the surface in regards to actions, opinions, and posts here.

I want an answer to 1476 and 1521. I don't respond well to baseless accusations.

1599 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:25:13am

re: #1596 Jimmah

I've seen a lot of shitty comments in my day, and that sarcasm was not one of them. Again, you guys can continue to construe it or paint me however you like. Just don't expect me to lie down and take it.

1600 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:26:48am

re: #1598 TheMatrix31


I want an answer to 1476 and 1521. I don't respond well to baseless accusations.

I see, we're back to the butthurt whining. You certainly take delight in making baseless accusations, and in stirring shit.
Sorry, I'm not going to go combing through your old posts for examples of times when you were called out for shitty comments. They're legion. You know it, I know it, others know it.
You'll have to come up with something else to disprove the allegation that you're here to stir shit, because this ain't working.

1601 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:29:40am

re: #1600 iceweasel

We're not "back to anything". I personally think it's shitty that you say that I'm a racist or have made racist comments, and that I have "trouble with women" then aren't able to back them up with actual quotes. You always push for people to show you quotes and posts. Sometimes people do and sometimes people don't. I don't like my words being twisted and my identity falsely represented--especially when it comes to two things as serious as such.

1602 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:32:53am

re: #1594 littleugly

Classic, all I can say to you Dark Falcon is;
Bus, wheels,
When hunting make sure you hold the rifle, not the cartridges.

{SHARMUTA}

A sharmuta attack troll? I guess that's possible too. That too would explain the obsession with teh evul iceweasel I suppose.

Certainly a troll with an anti-iceweasel agenda of some sort.

1603 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:33:58am

re: #1600 iceweasel

re: #1601 TheMatrix31

I have a solution: I will issue my assurance that Matrix has never said anything racist, iceweasel will accept this assurance, and then MAtrix will drop the matter. Sound fair?

1604 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:34:57am

BTW....if you want to look at posts I've made that haven't been nasty, just look at my comment history. You don't have to look too far.

Excluding this thread which takes up most of the first two pages of my comment history, I commented on the State of the Union Address. Page 3 of my comment thread is full of civil discussion and remarks.

1605 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:36:29am

re: #1603 Dark_Falcon

Hey, that sounds good to me. Also might want to give the assurance that I've never "whined about women" and have expressed an "inability to get women".

1606 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:37:24am

re: #1601 TheMatrix31

We're not "back to anything". I personally think it's shitty that you say that I'm a racist or have made racist comments, and that I have "trouble with women" then aren't able to back them up with actual quotes. You always push for people to show you quotes and posts. Sometimes people do and sometimes people don't. I don't like my words being twisted and my identity falsely represented--especially when it comes to two things as serious as such.

C'mon Matrix. You know you've made a number of comments here about women in LA.
The only reason I'm not digging your old comments up is because I believe 1) you know perfectly well what you've said, and 2) I think it's kinda shitty for me to go dumpsterdiving and haul that shit out.
You can pretend this means I'm being 'unfair' to you or 'misrepresnting' you, just like you want to pretend there was nothing at all wrong with your comments to me in this thread, but a non-troll and non-shitstirrer would let this drop now. Kinda like I've given you a pass for a while now on the various comments you made about me (and Jimmah) in this thread.

1607 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:39:11am

re: #1601 TheMatrix31

We're not "back to anything". I personally think it's shitty that you say that I'm a racist or have made racist comments, and that I have "trouble with women" then aren't able to back them up with actual quotes. You always push for people to show you quotes and posts. Sometimes people do and sometimes people don't. I don't like my words being twisted and my identity falsely represented--especially when it comes to two things as serious as such.

Well, I can't remember everything you've ever said her, but I do remember you talking about having an extremely low opinion of all the women in your area, and wanting to move because of it. To me, there is something of an issue there if you have such a problem with so many women.

1608 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:39:30am

re: #1602 Jimmah

A sharmuta attack troll? I guess that's possible too. That too would explain the obsession with teh evul iceweasel I suppose.

Certainly a troll with an anti-iceweasel agenda of some sort.

It's more than a little interesting that a so-called friend or supporter of Sharmuta's would think it's a good idea to attach her name at the bottom of his inflammatory, shit-stirring posts.
Doesn't seem like a nice or smart thing to do, but then, it is named littleugly.

1609 Unakite  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:39:45am

re: #1583 LudwigVanQuixote

No I said a great deal more than that. I actually laid out the whole story pretty well. Do they not teach geology people basic physics any more? I laid out very clearly how CO2 is a GHG and it drives the warming and I further gave you multiple links as to the feedbacks and the consequences. You are just being a troll now.

If you are an actual scientist, then read the science. People in science know when to read things they know nothing of before commenting.

Hmm, now I'm a troll. Is that now the accusation du jour?

1610 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:41:27am

re: #1605 TheMatrix31

Hey, that sounds good to me. Also might want to give the assurance that I've never "whined about women" and have expressed an "inability to get women".

That I cannot speak to. I can assure everyone, though, that you are no racist. The rest will have to wait for another day. Its too late for a systematic defense tonight. MY goal of this thread is to douse the flames, and I hope I've help to do so.

1611 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:42:44am

re: #1609 Unakite

Hmm, now I'm a troll. Is that now the accusation du jour?

Don't take it too hard. Ludwig throws that term around far more than most. If someone like Bagua or Jimmah calls you a troll, then you should worry.

1612 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:43:45am

re: #1606 iceweasel

Oh, so that's what you were referring to. Why didn't you just say it then? I was thinking about a time where I said "Man, I can't believe this chick...." or "Wow, my girlfriend is being ridiculous!"

Complaining about the women in my area is not a representation of trouble with dating and girlfriends. I have those just fine---I just don't relate to them or really like them all that much because there's a completely different culture of women here. I haven't met girls in Los Angeles that dispel that notion.

Totally twisting words, there.

1613 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:43:59am

re: #1609 Unakite

Hmm, now I'm a troll. Is that now the accusation du jour?

No not at all... if you refuse to accept basic QM while still claiming a scientific background and refusing to acknowledge multiple responses to you that were cordial and scientific, you are a troll. It is really simple. read the science and debate like a scientist if you are one. Otherwise admit you don't know what you are talking about and refrain from opining until you have read up. How any professional scientist can not know QM is beyond me actually.

1614 Unakite  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:45:22am

re: #1611 Dark_Falcon

Don't take it too hard. Ludwig throws that term around far more than most. If someone like Bagua or Jimmah calls you a troll, then you should worry.

Thanks. Filed away.

1615 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:45:42am

re: #1590 Unakite

All right, FUCK YOU! Did you read my posts or were you too busy insulting everyone else? I looked through your links. I did not find one for CO2 saturation. All I asked was if you could point it out to me. FUCK YOU (seems to be the underlying tone of this thread).

Dude, like I said it is well discussed in the tipping point paper and I then gave you three other papers relevant to ocean anoxia.

You have got to be kidding.

If you are any sort of scientist, you should know better than to waste time like that.

1616 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:47:57am

re: #1611 Dark_Falcon

Don't take it too hard. Ludwig throws that term around far more than most. If someone like Bagua or Jimmah calls you a troll, then you should worry.

Don't be silly. I actually rarely call people trolls. If he can not be bothered to remember the multiple papers he was given and he even acknowledged the three or four others on Ocean anoxia specifically, then he is just being a troll. I also doubt seriously anyone who claims to be a scientist but doesn't know even enough basic QM to get the idea of re-radiation. It is a troll action to claim knowledge one does not have and then ignore stuff that was posted multiple times which answered him directly.

1617 Unakite  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:48:07am

re: #1613 LudwigVanQuixote

No not at all... if you refuse to accept basic QM while still claiming a scientific background and refusing to acknowledge multiple responses to you that were cordial and scientific, you are a troll. It is really simple. read the science and debate like a scientist if you are one. Otherwise admit you don't know what you are talking about and refrain from opining until you have read up. How any professional scientist can not know QM is beyond me actually.

Well, in the spirit of this thread and most of your previous comments to everyone else, FUCK YOU!

1618 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:49:54am

re: #1617 Unakite

Well, in the spirit of this thread and most of your previous comments to everyone else, FUCK YOU!

Yeah ok that is great, but you see buddy you didn't earn any smack until the third time you refused to acknowledge my responses to you. Helll you even replied to the post with the three anoxia links and yet you forgot about it.... Please go have a melty elsewhere troll.

1619 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:51:10am

re: #1612 TheMatrix31

Oh, so that's what you were referring to. Why didn't you just say it then? I was thinking about a time where I said "Man, I can't believe this chick..." or "Wow, my girlfriend is being ridiculous!"

Complaining about the women in my area is not a representation of trouble with dating and girlfriends. I have those just fine---I just don't relate to them or really like them all that much because there's a completely different culture of women here. I haven't met girls in Los Angeles that dispel that notion.

Totally twisting words, there.

Not twisting words, Matrix - just making a reasonable inference. Now it may be that you just had bad luck with the girls in your area, but whenever I hear anyone make such comments - bearing in mind that LA is a big place with a huge diversity of people - it does make you scratch your head.

1620 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:53:52am

I'm leaving this thread. I can't take any more flaming. I'm too tired. I'll still be upstairs for a few minutes. May things never get this ugly again.

1621 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:54:48am

re: #1619 Jimmah

ok

1622 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:55:53am

re: #1620 Dark_Falcon

I'm leaving this thread. I can't take any more flaming. I'm too tired. I'll still be upstairs for a few minutes. May things never get this ugly again.

Joining you, DF.

1623 Unakite  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:57:42am

re: #1618 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah ok that is great, but you see buddy you didn't earn any smack until the third time you refused to acknowledge my responses to you. Helll you even replied to the post with the three anoxia links and yet you forgot about it... Please go have a melty elsewhere troll.

Even short-term history (like the last couple of hours) appears to be tough for you. I told you I looked at your links. I told you I didn't see a link to what I was looking for. I said I might have missed it and asked you to repost it. Maybe you did. This was a fast-moving thread with all the nastiness (quite a bit provided by you).

Civil ending, unlike your posts.

1624 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 1:38:23am

re: #1597 Dark_Falcon

OK, based on that comment, I think I was wrong about who we have with us. I think this is one of taxfreekiller's remaining sockpuppets. The freeverse poetics are his style.

You would probably tremble just looking at Taxfreekiller.
Trash talking about a Veteran who you do not even know is a tell on your character.
Do you even know wether he is maimed or to the extent that he is otherwise impaired?

Bah

1625 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 1:40:38am

re: #1624 littleugly

You would probably tremble just looking at Taxfreekiller.
Trash talking about a Veteran who you do not even know is a tell on your character.
Do you even know wether he is maimed or to the extent that he is otherwise impaired?

Bah

Well, I do know that he dislikes John Kerry. He left us in no doubt about that.

1626 ryannon  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 1:54:39am
1627 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 3:48:15am

re: #1602 Jimmah

A sharmuta attack troll? I guess that's possible too. That too would explain the obsession with teh evul iceweasel I suppose.

Certainly a troll with an anti-iceweasel agenda of some sort.

No, no.
I do not know {SHARMUTA}.
I have a good read on people as a whole though.
I think she is being childish in not facing her Demons.
I think that you two can not do any more harm than you have gleefully done up to now, claiming a hollow victory, holding her hostage.
{SHARMUTA} I am sure is going to come back and keep on posting as usual. Let the posters decide who is the aggressor.
I do not have a problem with Iceweasel, Jimmah, I call them as I see them, and I post when I am motivated to do so.
But Jimmah as I have been accused of being a misogynist anyway, getting Iceweasel to back down was worth calling her a girl, but I have to tell you man, it is really, really bad form to attack a woman in need. Think about it guy.

1628 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 3:56:14am

re: #1627 littleugly

No, no.
I do not know {-----}.
I have a good read on people as a whole though.
I think she is

If you don't know her, then maybe you should shut the fuck up about her, troll. Especially since I believe you don't know her, you've been appending her name to your trollish posts purely out of malice, and even here when you pretend to be 'defending' her, you're talking shit about her.

Just fuck off.

1629 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 4:02:25am

re: #1625 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I do know that he dislikes John Kerry. He left us in no doubt about that.

Man, he sure did.

1630 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 4:24:34am

re: #1628 iceweasel

If you don't know her, then maybe you should shut the fuck up about her, troll. Especially since I believe you don't know her, you've been appending her name to your trollish posts purely out of malice, and even here when you pretend to be 'defending' her, you're talking shit about her.

Just fuck off.

Muchacha!

Relax, I was just trying to get her to come back and not fear reprisals.

Well, I guess that is out the window now, maybe in the future you can comport yourself in a more ladylike(oops) manner and {SHARMUTA} feels safe to come back to a more welcome environment, free of ding a ding, dings.

Maybe tomorrow.

1631 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 4:29:46am

re: #1630 littleugly

Yes, it's very clear all your posts have been directed at nothing but peace and harmony, and about expressing concern for someone else.
I don't think anyone needs or wants the kind of 'help' you've been offering her here tonight. Least of all she herself.

1632 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 4:45:50am

re: #1631 iceweasel

Yes, it's very clear all your posts have been directed at nothing but peace and harmony, and about expressing concern for someone else.
I don't think anyone needs or wants the kind of 'help' you've been offering her here tonight. Least of all she herself.

I am so glad you toned it down.

Regardless of what you 'think' that anyone wants, I will keep on supporting her and try to bring her back, you have been the agressor, of course you would make this silly argument

1633 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 4:54:29am

re: #1632 littleugly

Talking shit about her on dead threads, like you have done here, is a truly excellent way to 'support' her, pendajo.

1634 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 5:36:22am

re: #1633 iceweasel

Talking shit about her on dead threads, like you have done here, is a truly excellent way to 'support' her, pendajo.

You are not being forthcoming with the facts.
Everybody on this board is on to your machinations.
They all turn into a firefight.
You have just stated that I trashed {SHARMUTA} on dead threads.
That is simply not true.
The fifth letter in your less than eloquent, Spanish word is supposed to be an E.

In deference to Jimmah I am going to drop it now.

1635 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 5:42:35am

re: #1634 littleugly

Unsurprisingly, you continue to be a troll and a liar. As well as ignorant, pendajo.
Looks like you're not familiar with Mexican slang, pendajo. Or the spellings thereof.
I'll enjoy employing some more on you in the future.


In deference to Jimmah I am going to drop it now.

I don't blame you a bit, pendajo. In Mexican slang, this word also has the meaning of 'chicken-shit', pendajo.
As well as dumbass, jackass, someone who is willfully stupid, and several more meanings that fit you, pendajo.

But yes, I don't blame you one bit for being chicken-shit when it comes to Jimmah, pendajo.

1636 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 5:47:33am

re: #1634 littleugly


The fifth letter in your less than eloquent, Spanish word is supposed to be an E.

In deference to Jimmah I am going to drop it now.

I think you should have thought twice before deciding to call me 'muchacha', pendajo.
But then again, we already know that you rarely think even once, don't we?

1637 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 5:54:57am

re: #1635 iceweasel

Unsurprisingly, you continue to be a troll and a liar. As well as ignorant, pendajo.
Looks like you're not familiar with Mexican slang, pendajo. Or the spellings thereof.
I'll enjoy employing some more on you in the future.

I don't blame you a bit, pendajo. In Mexican slang, this word also has the meaning of 'chicken-shit', pendajo.
As well as dumbass, jackass, someone who is willfully stupid, and several more meanings that fit you, pendajo.

But yes, I don't blame you one bit for being chicken-shit when it comes to Jimmah, pendajo.

{ICEWEASEL}

1638 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 6:02:12am

re: #1637 littleugly

{ICEWEASEL}

Oh, so you've just demonstrated to all reading that you use that little { } convention out of malice now, and trapped butthurt sputtering.

Great work, pendajo! Impressive. Well played.

*golfclap*

1639 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 6:13:47am

re: #1638 iceweasel

Oh, so you've just demonstrated to all reading that you use that little { } convention out of malice now, and trapped butthurt sputtering.

Great work, pendajo! Impressive. Well played.

*golfclap*

Come on, this is not necessary.

Listen, I appologize for anything that I have ever written in regards to your person, political or otherwise, this is not worth it.

Please, lets just drop it.

1640 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 7:02:03am

re: #1639 littleugly

Thanks for your apology and admission you were wrong. Appreciated.
I'm sure we'll encounter each other soon. Consider it dropped.

1641 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 7:32:01am

re: #1640 iceweasel

Consider it dropped.

That is, dropped until the next time you decide to call me 'muchacha', tell me my conduct should be more 'lady-like', or refer to me as 'a very difficult girl' or similar.

I do hope you've figured out now that isn't a clever thing to do.

And that saying nasty things about someone else isn't going to get you 'points' from me-- or anyone.

1642 littleugly  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 8:26:27am

re: #1640 iceweasel

Thanks for your apology and admission you were wrong. Appreciated.
I'm sure we'll encounter each other soon. Consider it dropped.

You had me freaking out there for a minute, Iceweasel.
I am very happy you managed to control your emotions.

1643 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 8:29:41am

re: #1642 littleugly

You had me freaking out there for a minute, Iceweasel.
I am very happy you managed to control your emotions.

I see you're at it again, pendajo.

I'll be ignoring you now until necessary. Go back to the stalker blog.

1644 elizajane  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 9:03:46am

re: #952 avanti

>>I'll try and stay out of this discussion, but it reminds me of the anti-evolution argument. Ignore the tons of data supporting evolution, and focus on the small errors and unknowns. It seems we are doing the same with AGW. Since the data supports warming, attack the accuracy of some of the data any way possible, and ignore the rest.

1645 tradewind  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 9:40:58am

Wow.
I always miss the really good stuff.//

1646 The Left  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:14:43pm

Hasta luego, pendajo !

1647 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:46:41pm

re: #1644 elizajane

>>I'll try and stay out of this discussion, but it reminds me of the anti-evolution argument. Ignore the tons of data supporting evolution, and focus on the small errors and unknowns. It seems we are doing the same with AGW. Since the data supports warming, attack the accuracy of some of the data any way possible, and ignore the rest.

This is a correct observation. It's been pretty well documented here and in a lot of other places that the people who are ID troglodytes are frequently the same people as the anti-AGW deniers. The roots of the propaganda and the talking points and distortions of science that are made are so similar because they come from the same groups nationally.

1648 GForce  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 12:49:02pm

“Why don’t TV weathermen believe in climate change?”

Climate changes constantly but AWG is total bull $hit.

1649 elizajane  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 1:18:29pm

re: #1644 elizajane

Oops, that was my quotation from Avanti but my own comment didn't get published! Sorry. I think I said something like, I agree, and hope Ludwig managed to get some sleep after all the bashing here....

1650 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 1:49:36pm

re: #1649 elizajane

Oops, that was my quotation from Avanti but my own comment didn't get published! Sorry. I think I said something like, I agree, and hope Ludwig managed to get some sleep after all the bashing here...

Don't worry I'm good. And thank you.

1651 2oldstroke  Sun, Jan 31, 2010 7:06:47pm

I just love the great science that the "Global Warming" crowd claims.
Just read the following:

"The [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change]’s remit is to provide an authoritative assessment of scientific evidence on climate change.

In its most recent report, it stated that observed reductions in mountain ice in the Andes, Alps and Africa was being caused by global warming, citing two papers as the source of the information.

However, it can be revealed that one of the sources quoted was a feature article published in a popular magazine for climbers which was based on anecdotal evidence from mountaineers about the changes they were witnessing on the mountainsides around them.

The other was a dissertation written by a geography student, studying for the equivalent of a master’s degree, at the University of Berne in Switzerland that quoted interviews with mountain guides in the Alps."

1652 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 11:08:15am

re: #1651 2oldstroke

Ahhh yes another denier at the end of a dead thread thinking that magically getting the "last word" will somehow make the science go away by posting a distorted talking point.

For this nonsense to have a point, the eyewitness testimony referred to would have to be false.. it isn't. For this moron to have a point, it would only have been eyewitness testimony, it isn't. People make measurements of snow cover all the time by many different means, including satellites.

And it isn't just a matter of data to be found in papers in this case. Anyone can easily google photos of the melts.

The deniers are the sorts of fools who when presented with an elephant, claim it is a doorknob.

It got very old and very very pathetic a long time ago.

1653 2oldstroke  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 12:49:17pm

Oh great brilliant one calling people names is so "in" now with the totalitarians, of course it's been the method for censorship for years.
I just found this on "Hot Air" since you are the all seeing and knowing is this true or not? Try studying all of the info. instead of making up your mind.
I thought we understood what happened to Galileo and how he was treated?

1654 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 1:25:44pm

Oh, for Pete's sake.

1655 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 2:28:32pm

re: #1653 2oldstroke

Oh great brilliant one calling people names is so "in" now with the totalitarians, of course it's been the method for censorship for years.
I just found this on "Hot Air" since you are the all seeing and knowing is this true or not? Try studying all of the info. instead of making up your mind.
I thought we understood what happened to Galileo and how he was treated?

Yes looking at the evidence would be a very good thing. Why don't you? Either the melts are occurring or they aren't... try looking at the photos :)

1656 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Feb 1, 2010 2:29:13pm

re: #1653 2oldstroke

Oh great brilliant one calling people names is so "in" now with the totalitarians, of course it's been the method for censorship for years.
I just found this on "Hot Air" since you are the all seeing and knowing is this true or not? Try studying all of the info. instead of making up your mind.
I thought we understood what happened to Galileo and how he was treated?

And yes, you are a moron :)


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