We Got Mail!

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Since I began to break ranks with the right wing noisemakers, I’ve been receiving an average of five hate mails every single day, often more.

Sometimes it’s the same person over and over. Once someone sent me more than three dozen emails in about 10 minutes before I blocked his IP address from the site.

Sometimes it’s from a random Internet rage-a-holic, who followed a link from one of the wingnut blogs where I get trashed on a regular basis for not believing in creationism, or for not adoring ex-governor Sarah Palin, or for saying unkind things about Rush Limbaugh.

The amount of hate mail I’ve received from angry right wingers is far, far beyond anything I ever received from angry Islamists, or even from angry CODEPINK leftists. And the level of venom and vitriol is pretty amazing. Many of them exhibit cowardly stalker-like behavior, using proxy IPs and fake email addresses to hide their identities, and putting titles on their hate mails that sound innocuous to “trick” me into reading them.

Here are a few samples from January alone (a month in which I received 151 hate mails), with all profanities, misspellings, and bad grammar left intact to convey the full flavor.

Received on January 1st from someone who clicked a link in a Google search page:

charles, it’s 2010 and you’re still a little green faggot.

Short but not sweet at all.

Here’s one titled “creationism:”

Obsessed with this, arent ya. Well next dinner party you have with Maxine Walters and Nancy, bring it up with them. If you lump people across the board into something, it cuts both ways….ergo, youre a fucking idiot.

Simply titled “Question:”

You are a headline loving douche bag. Suck on a big fat one, fat boy.

Homophobia and gay-themed insults are very common.

If someone had told me a few years ago that the chubby dissembler would like smoking cock more than writing about jihad in 2010, I probably wouldn’t have believed them.

And I mean extremely common.

Who told you that tea party supporters weren’t supporting Brown? Strawman much?

And speaking of teabagging, what do you like? You like a bear with hairy testicles, a new fish with barely a hair on them? Dipped in anything before you suck? Do you like to lick or suck first? Straight to the shaft after that or are you a rim job type of guy?

Another very common theme among these hundreds of emails is that I’m now “irrelevant” and nobody reads or cares about LGF any more. This tactic is intended to rob me of the will to live, I think.

A reader in Georgia sets his caps lock key on “STUN” and spews:

CHARLES, LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE HAD YOUR TIME IN THE SUN. ONCE THIS ARTICLE RUNS ITS COURSE YOU WILL BE FORGOTTEN AND WILL FADE AWAY. NO ONE WILL CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED. YOU WERE NEVER EMBRACED BY THE LEFT ONCE YOU TURNED ON THE RIGHT AND THEY HAVE THEIR FAVORITES TO TURN TO ANYWAYS. YOU ARE DONE ENJOY YOUR LONELY WALK TO IRRELEVANCE. PUBLISH THIS PLEASE.

I probably made Mr. Capslock’s day by publishing his illiterate rant. (No need to thank me, CL!)

Lots of these people are provoked into an angry screed because I accept the scientific evidence for evolution, or for global warming, or both.

Duplicitous dopefetcher Charles Johnson falls for Peter Sinclair’s latest bit of green propaganda. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

One stalker specializes in vile comments like this one:

Every time you use the word dishonest a gay Jew is killed. Just so you know. L’Chaim.

Another common theme is rage at the readers who comment at LGF, for not hating me sufficiently:

Jesus h christ you are such a creep it is unbelievable. And stupid too. The sycophants love you and will do so against all facts not to mention good taste.

The majority of them get right to the point though. We’ll close tonight’s episode of “We Got Mail!” with a missive from yet another caps lock abuser:

SUCK SHIT YOU FUCKING COCKHEAD!!! LOL!!!

Jump to bottom

797 comments
1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:42:56pm

Capslock users Anonymous. Really, we can help you.

2 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:43:27pm

I'm really sorry you get this kind of junk mail.
Shows how close to the target, you really are!

3 freetoken  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:43:38pm

I wonder what would happen if you admitted you liked arugula or, God forbid, dijon mustard?

4 soap_man  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:45:57pm

A classy bunch, they are.

5 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:48:37pm

Twitter is another source. I've seen tweets that say "I go to LGF every day, but I don't read anything Charles writes." The stalkers are not smart.

6 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:49:16pm

Stay strong, Charles! Just keep on doing your thing and show the haters how inconsequential they really are. Nothing infuriates them more than knowing that LGF is doing just fine without them....

7 LotharBot  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:49:21pm

cHARLES UR A HOMERSECKSUEL CAULK SOCKING IRELAVANT FOCKER TOOL AND UR WEBSITE IS TEH UGLY! aND I CAN PRUVE IT SIENTIFICLY EVEN THO SCYINZE IS EVIL! wHY DON"T U GO HUG A TREE AND GET OF TEH INTERNETS CUZ TEH INTRANETS IZ ONLY 4 SMART PPL LIEK ME! ps pALIN 4 PRECEDENT!


/// included for people with faulty sarc detectors

8 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:50:07pm

"...against all facts not to mention good taste."

Hah! Best line of the bunch.

9 LotharBot  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:50:48pm

Seriously though, keep on keepin' on. Shine the light on the hate and stupidity. The sooner that stuff gets exposed and marginalized, the sooner the country can move on.

10 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:51:16pm

Congratulations! Imagine how embarrassing it would be if these people actually liked you.

11 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:51:29pm

A reader in Georgia sets his caps lock key on “STUN” and spews:

I've seen Tazers with more stun power than that.

Sad.

12 Guanxi88  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:51:50pm

Eh, an average of five bits of hate mail a day?

I get more than that at Christmas.

//

13 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:51:52pm

kids with keyboards...my dad would have knocked into next month if I ever said such things

14 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:52:09pm

These angry emailers sure do think about gay sex a lot.

15 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:52:18pm

its always amazing to me that people can send mails like that... Its like a public service to the sight, since posts like this are always brilliant fun to read :)

/ps they're crazy :p

16 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:52:46pm

Well you know anyone who fears gay people that much that it becomes the most profound insult to talk about gay thing probably is wrestling with some urges he hates about himself.

Look on the bright side Charles, you are helping rednecks, racists and religious freaks get in touch with their sexuality. If it works, they will start dressing better, eating better food and being less judgmental. :)

17 pharmmajor  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:52:52pm

Just furthers my belief that the majority of the right-wing (and the left wing) is populated by gullible, mindless, hostile sheep.

18 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:53:14pm

re: #12 Guanxi88

Eh, an average of five bits of hate mail a day?

I get more than that at Christmas.

//


So stop giving your relatives your address...

//jk, you set that up too sweetly.

19 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:53:28pm

re: #17 pharmmajor

Just furthers my belief that the majority of the right-wing (and the left wing) is populated by gullible, mindless, hostile sheep.

Amen to that. And those who just simply can't look at or for facts.

20 Donna Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:53:39pm

What I don't understand is why people waste their time with this kind of hateful drivel. I have posting to LGF for almost a month and I have yet to see anything even close to what these delusional minds say your posting and thinking. I guess I just don't want to believe that those kinds of people are out there. I guess it's time to stop fooling myself, they are out there and they're the lowest kind of pond scum and not worth worrying over. I'll just drive myself crazy over it. Just keep up the good work Charles, eventually they'll get tired of the vitriolic hyperbole and disappear.

21 cliffster  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:53:53pm

If you rearrange the letters in "SUCK SHIT YOU FUCKING COCKHEAD!!! LOL!!!" it spells "I'M A BIG DUMB JERK!!!!!!"

22 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:53:56pm

re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF... I really need a new keyboard.

Well you know anyone who fears gay people that much that it becomes the most profound insult to talk about gay things probably is wrestling with some urges he hates about himself.

Look on the bright side Charles, you are helping rednecks, racists and religious freaks get in touch with their sexuality. If it works, they will start dressing better, eating better food and being less judgmental. :)

23 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:54:04pm
YOU WERE NEVER EMBRACED BY THE LEFT ONCE YOU TURNED ON THE RIGHT AND THEY HAVE THEIR FAVORITES TO TURN TO ANYWAYS.

Uh, what?

Syntactic Scramble Skillet at Denny's!

24 recusancy  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:54:06pm

Re: the thread downstairs where people didn't believe that the GOP is male dominated. This might be one reason why:

"Women sometimes need a little more handholding, or they need their friends to help them make a decision. And by our going in and talking to them and recruiting and educating and training them to either get involved in a campaign or become a candidate, we're giving them the tools so that they can do that on their own," Larimer added.

25 Guanxi88  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:54:13pm

re: #18 EmmmieG

So stop giving your relatives your address...

//jk, you set that up too sweetly.

You sure we're not kin?

26 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:54:39pm

re: #14 jaunte

These angry emailers sure do think about gay sex a lot.

well the Shakespearean Insult Generator isn't for every one...

27 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:54:48pm

re: #17 pharmmajor

Just furthers my belief that the majority of the right-wing (and the left wing) is populated by gullible, mindless, hostile sheep.

it's all over the net and always has been...it's not political and it's not ideological....people do this because anonymity is groovy

28 Donna Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:54:53pm

re: #14 jaunte

These angry emailers sure do think about gay sex a lot.

Yeah, kinda makes me wonder...repressed you think?

29 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:54:55pm

The Hate Mail is like an exit interview for a flouncer.

30 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:55:15pm

re: #8 jaunte

"...against all facts not to mention good taste."

Hah! Best line of the bunch.

That was a "good" line!
Idiotic, and funny.

For anyone thinking that Charles is exaggerating this, or who thinks Charles' posting of these e-mails is just more "evidence" that he hates conservatives . . . let me say that some of us here have also received similar missives (not as many, and not as graphic, to be sure) from people who used to be here who we thought of as "friendly", who have sent the most awful messages because, I guess, we ended up not being quite as conservatively pure as they are. Or something.

I've been amazed that anyone I've had contact with could think such things about me - and stunned that these folks would actually sit down, compose the thing and send it to me.

31 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:56:00pm

The people who wrote those emails are retarded.

32 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:56:10pm

We use the term "scud missile" at work for an e-mail that is going to piss off someone at the other end. Scud missile launching in 3..2..1 sending...

33 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:56:19pm

re: #23 iceweasel

Uh, what?

Syntactic Scramble Skillet at Denny's!

That's a meme from 2.0. They falsely think that Charles once drunk their cool aid - which he never did, and as a result reasonable people will always hate him, which they do not. The people there like to think that everyone hates Charles as much as they do. It's a strength in numbers pack mentality thing from weak beta males.

34 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:56:23pm

re: #27 albusteve

it's all over the net and always has been...it's not political and it's not ideological...people do this because anonymity is groovy

Charles should post their email addresses with their hate mail. Especially for the ones who are dumb enough to write from work.

35 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:56:44pm

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

something we can agree on :)

36 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:57:17pm

re: #34 darthstar

ohh, nooooo.... thats not a very good idea :p

37 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:57:30pm

Somewhere, an English teacher is weeping...

38 PowerFlip  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:58:40pm

To what purpose does it serve to write a hate email to somebody;
at minimum, it is self serving and may temorailty make somesones mundane life

39 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:58:41pm

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

That's a meme from 2.0. They falsely think that Charles once drunk their cool aid - which he never did, and as a result reasonable people will always hate him, which they do not. The people there like to think that everyone hates Charles as much as they do. It's a strength in numbers pack mentality thing from weak beta males.

Yeah, I know they have this fantasy that without them and their fabulous contributions to political discourse LGF is 'nothing', but the hatemailer's inability to form a proper sentence amused me.

I think all their internal monologues are in capslock, personally.

40 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:58:45pm

Angry mob is angry.

41 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 4:58:52pm

re: #36 windsagio

ohh, nooo... thats not a very good idea :p

I'm a firm believer in naming and shaming. Or at least saying "John Smith at XYZ dot com says..."

42 PowerFlip  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:00:00pm

(opps, went to hit spell check instead of post)..
and at maximum, it it may be used against you a in a leagal/ethical case.

43 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:00:17pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

Angry mob is angry.

that's hard to argue with...

44 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:00:23pm

re: #41 darthstar

it can also on occasion lead to harassment and lawsuits :p

Whats good for the goose really isn't good for the gander.

45 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:00:27pm

Basement dwellers arise and confront the evility of sensiful disgustion!

46 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:01:32pm

re: #44 windsagio

it can also on occasion lead to harassment and lawsuits :p

Whats good for the goose really isn't good for the gander.

Good point.

47 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:01:52pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

Dopey mailing is dopey.

48 cliffster  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:02:15pm

If you send an email like that, and then you fall down the stairs and die, then your last act in this world was to send some lame, pointless hate to someone you don't even know.

And with that I go home. L8R jokers.

49 freetoken  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:02:23pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

Angry mob is mob-angry.

The mob-angry angry mob mobs the angry.

(Where's Cato when you need him...)

50 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:02:59pm

re: #38 PowerFlip

To what purpose does it serve to write a hate email to somebody;
at minimum, it is self serving and may temorailty make somesones mundane life

These things feed the anger people feel.
These are not people who really want to be content and happy and live a real life. These are people who want to be angry.

51 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:03:57pm

hello rodan

52 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:05:50pm

re: #50 reine.de.tout

These things feed the anger people feel.
These are not people who really want to be content and happy and live a real life. These are people who want to be angry.

here's a place in the world for the angry young man
With his working class ties and his radical plans
He refuses to bend, he refuses to crawl,
He's always at home with his back to the wall.
And he's proud of his scars and the battles he's lost,
He struggles and bleeds as he hangs on the cross-
And he likes to be known as the angry young man.

>Billy Joel.

53 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:05:50pm

Just to continue the weak beta male theme... let's point to some sure give aways:

1. Obsessing about guns. I don't mean liking them or collecting them or enjoying shooting, I mean obsessing about how much you are into them at any given chance in a false "don't mess with me, I am tough!!!!" display. In other words, the guy wets himself at the real world.

2. Obsessing about gay people. I mean really, if you are straight, what threat do they pose to you? Good fashion advice? Does any sane person honestly think that in the hetero world spouses who are about to cheat ever stop and think, "hmmm... gay people can't get married because marriage is sacred, and so is mine so I should not cheat" ? Does anyone honestly think that gay people are a threat to hetero marriage more than straight people themselves are? The person who obsesses like that is almost certainly trying to prove a little too much that he isn't. Hmmm... Not that being gay is a form of weakness. Being gay and homophobic to that extent is a form of weakness.

3. Obsessing about conspiracy theories. It is the mark of a failed life if someone has to always blame everything on them. It is weakness entrenched in paranoia from those who can not take responsibility for their own failures.

4. Group pile ons that have more to do about being a part of the herd than standing for something is cowardice from those who have few real friendships.

5. Thinking Charles is your daddy.... Hmmm.... I don't even know where to begin with why that is so messed up, but one can clearly see it is the product of a weak and damaged mind.

54 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:07:22pm

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

per 1)

Tap tap, 2 to the center of mass

56 Donna Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:08:16pm

re: #42 PowerFlip

(opps, went to hit spell check instead of post)..
and at maximum, it it may be used against you a in a leagal/ethical case.

Some people can't find the spell check button with both hands or their toes or their...you get the point. But PIMF!
I'm guilty of not using it, but those guys are criminal about it! Maybe they think it was funny but "insulting" is a heck of lot closer...

57 PowerFlip  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:08:30pm

re: #50 reine.de.tout

"anger is a gift"..
Zach de la Rocha
RATM

58 wiffersnapper  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:08:38pm

Conservative tolerance on parade.
///

59 Achilles Tang  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:08:42pm

Shit. LOST is on. Bye.

60 freetoken  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:09:58pm

re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote

Well you know anyone who fears gay people that much...

Speaking of which, back in Iowa the GOP is split over whether they should have a State Constitutional convention to rewrite the Iowa Constitution to explicitly outlaw same-sex marriage.

In this case, the hard-core Tea Partier governor candidate is against the idea as he fears a convention would open the door to all sorts of things (read: liberals, of which about 1/2 of Iowans apparently are.)

The mainstream GOP candidate is for it, as opposed to trying to simply amend the current constitution. The two factions of the GOP are warring.

Given what the Iowa GOP Platform says about these types of social issues, it would appear to me that one GOP candidate there is not really that different than the other.

2010 is shaping up to be quite the ideologically driven year in the life of the GOP.

61 Right Handed Neutrino  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:12:07pm

That last one is my favorite. There's a "less is more" quality about that last enthusiastic "LOL!!!" that I think really gets the message across.

62 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:12:34pm

re: #60 freetoken

Speaking of which, back in Iowa the GOP is split over whether they should have a State Constitutional convention to rewrite the Iowa Constitution to explicitly outlaw same-sex marriage.

In this case, the hard-core Tea Partier governor candidate is against the idea as he fears a convention would open the door to all sorts of things (read: liberals, of which about 1/2 of Iowans apparently are.)

The mainstream GOP candidate is for it, as opposed to trying to simply amend the current constitution. The two factions of the GOP are warring.

Given what the Iowa GOP Platform says about these types of social issues, it would appear to me that one GOP candidate there is not really that different than the other.

2010 is shaping up to be quite the ideologically driven year in the life of the GOP.

Yes an ideology based on irrational fear and hatred of others coupled with all sorts of other evils.

I am no longer going to pull any punches. I've seen the GOP slide into lunacy for the past eight years. They are evil and should be called evil. It is not just craziness they offer but out and out hatefulness.

63 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:13:08pm

re: #61 Right Handed Neutrino

The message being...

I have issues?

64 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:13:09pm

re: #61 Right Handed Neutrino

That last one is my favorite. There's a "less is more" quality about that last enthusiastic "LOL!!!" that I think really gets the message across.

WOW, I love that nic. Greetings fellow physicist :)

65 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:13:35pm

re: #62 LudwigVanQuixote

since you bring up the subject, I'd argue that its not really 'the last 8 years'...

Its just that the checks they've been writing since Nixon are all starting to come due at once.

66 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:13:54pm

re: #62 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes an ideology based on irrational fear and hatred of others coupled with all sorts of other evils.

I am no longer going to pull any punches. I've seen the GOP slide into lunacy for the past eight years. They are evil and should be called evil. It is not just craziness they offer but out and out hatefulness.

obsess much ?

67 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:15:20pm

re: #65 windsagio

since you bring up the subject, I'd argue that its not really 'the last 8 years'...

Its just that the checks they've been writing since Nixon are all starting to come due at once.

Well said. I think that has some truth to it. But I also think the mass migration of the Dixiecrats has a lot to do with it too.

68 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:15:50pm

re: #65 windsagio

Which started before the Southern strategy.

69 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:16:40pm

Supper...

And remember... the season six premiere of LOST... tonight... did they manage to change the timeline?

Be back tomorrow.

70 Right Handed Neutrino  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:16:56pm

re: #63 EmmmieG

The message being...

I have issues?

"I have issues, and by God I'm not going to be subtle about it."

71 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:17:20pm

re: #67 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote

That was kind of the first 'check' they wrote in this slide. Things really accelerated when they really started using the gay/abortion thing in the '90s tho'.

72 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:17:31pm

Wow- that's some nasty hate mail. Shameful, really.

73 Right Handed Neutrino  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:19:12pm

re: #64 LudwigVanQuixote

WOW, I love that nic. Greetings fellow physicist :)

Hi there! Glad you enjoyed it. What field do you work in?

74 researchok  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:19:34pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The reason they hate Charles is simple. He is everything they are not.

He is accomplished outside the blogosphere. He is an accomplished and recognized musician. He has mastered computer code and founded a successful business in the high tech world. He authors a highly visible and successful blog. Unlike many of his blogging detractors his blog success is mainly due to his consistency.

He panders to no one and if there ever was an political independent, it is he. He is not perfect and makes no such claim. He'll listen to a reasoned argument and will change his mind when called for. He makes no demands that anyone see the world through his eyes.

He won't tolerate fools (with LGF traffic, real work, real life and only 24 hours in a day, let's cut him some slack in that dept) and that sticks in the craw of the oceans fools who march lockstep in stupidity. He respects others for their behavior and character and not for their religious or political beliefs.

Despite repeated and incessant attempts his detractors can't knock him down or even argue or reason rationally with him. That's why so many people hate him. They aren't in his league and never will be.

He really does give a damn and has paid the price more than once.

75 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:20:36pm

re: #34 darthstar

I don't think posting people's emails is right.
Even thought they might be nasty, pond scum.
"Outing" anyone is just a violation of my sense of basic decency.

76 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:21:12pm

re: #66 brookly red

obsess much ?

NO not at all. I have a new philosophy. The far right loonies win by forcing scientists on the defensive and giving themselves the false appearance of being an equal side in a debate that does not exist.

Nope no more. Just call them stupid and evil and then bring the science to show it. Don't give the dignity they do not deserve. They are not equals.

The same applies to all the other freaks in normal political discourse when they say nonsense. There is no debate as to if the President was born here. Just call them idiots and point to the irth announcements and statements from Hawaii. Don;t give the freaks a false air of legitimacy that they do not have. They are morons. Call them on it.

The same could be said for any number of lies. If it becomes fashionable for reasonable people to reject the unreasonable strongly then perhaps it will be seen as unreasonable rather than a falsely equal side.

And then to evil. The biggest thing about evil is always that good folks rationalize ways not to act. The best way to do it is to call something clearly evil, something else.

No the GOP party planks are evil. Racism is evil. Corporate greed is evil. Corruption is evil. The Christian right is evil and hypocritical. Being anti-woman is evil. Being homophobic is evil. Just say it and have done with.

77 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:21:46pm

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

On your #1 Obsessing about guns. Yup, those guys are the scariest thing near blued steel. I have seen then at the range all in camo, and whatever their idea of "real operator" gear is. They come to learn to shoot or shoot better. Except they know it all already. Owned guns for years, shooting maybe once a year. Heh. Okay disclosure D_L and I are handgun instructors. More than 10 years teaching.

My favorite is the "Bubba" who brings the girl friend. Usually she is there after significant eye rolling and his insistence. But here is the game I play with Dragon_Lady. I take Bubba to one side, and D_L takes the girtlfriend to the other. We get them apart for 2 hours. I train Bubba, she gets girlfriend to shoot her (D_L's) gun, & shoot it well with careful instruction. See girlfriend listens and gets better. At the end we get them together.

Just guess how pissed Bubba gets when his girl who never shot before does as well or better than him in a little fun shoot in the last minutes of the lesson. Of course he has to swallow his mach and smile at his girl that can suddenly shoot. Heh. Heh. Heh.

78 Crimsonfisted  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:22:02pm

re: #74 researchok

Well said.

79 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:22:59pm

re: #73 Right Handed Neutrino

Hi there! Glad you enjoyed it. What field do you work in?

I do chaos and non-linear dynamics. I specifically work in problems of fluids these days and I have a huge interest in AGW. I used to do string theory, but got out of it when we found that neutrinos have mass and didn't want to re-write everything to seal with anti-DeSitter space. However, I also wanted a job too :)

I am guessing you are a particle or nuclear person?

80 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:24:22pm

Speaking of emails.. I just got an email from a long time Lizard pissed at me cause I shown kindness to certain lizards here.. I guess I need to draw sides in the Sand..
Let's clear this shit up right now...I will not be drawn into a personal fight or war here..I show kindness to many here as many do me...
The petty behind the scenes must stop.. So in this spirit I will forward your email to Charles...And you will hate my reply in the Morning..Stop hiding behind the curtain Lizard....

81 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:24:47pm

re: #77 Rightwingconspirator

On your #1 Obsessing about guns. Yup, those guys are the scariest thing near blued steel. I have seen then at the range all in camo, and whatever their idea of "real operator" gear is. They come to learn to shoot or shoot better. Except they know it all already. Owned guns for years, shooting maybe once a year. Heh. Okay disclosure D_L and I are handgun instructors. More than 10 years teaching.

My favorite is the "Bubba" who brings the girl friend. Usually she is there after significant eye rolling and his insistence. But here is the game I play with Dragon_Lady. I take Bubba to one side, and D_L takes the girtlfriend to the other. We get them apart for 2 hours. I train Bubba, she gets girlfriend to shoot her (D_L's) gun, & shoot it well with careful instruction. See girlfriend listens and gets better. At the end we get them together.

Just guess how pissed Bubba gets when his girl who never shot before does as well or better than him in a little fun shoot in the last minutes of the lesson. Of course he has to swallow his mach and smile at his girl that can suddenly shoot. Heh. Heh. Heh.

Brilliant! Positively brilliant. I used to be very into fencing. This is admittedly nerdy, but the same idea. I used to also do demonstrations at a Rennfest and pretty much the same things followed. Sir Talks a lot hated getting hit by his girl :)

82 Donna Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:25:00pm

re: #77 Rightwingconspirator

On your #1 Obsessing about guns. Yup, those guys are the scariest thing near blued steel. I have seen then at the range all in camo, and whatever their idea of "real operator" gear is. They come to learn to shoot or shoot better. Except they know it all already. Owned guns for years, shooting maybe once a year. Heh. Okay disclosure D_L and I are handgun instructors. More than 10 years teaching.

My favorite is the "Bubba" who brings the girl friend. Usually she is there after significant eye rolling and his insistence. But here is the game I play with Dragon_Lady. I take Bubba to one side, and D_L takes the girtlfriend to the other. We get them apart for 2 hours. I train Bubba, she gets girlfriend to shoot her (D_L's) gun, & shoot it well with careful instruction. See girlfriend listens and gets better. At the end we get them together.

Just guess how pissed Bubba gets when his girl who never shot before does as well or better than him in a little fun shoot in the last minutes of the lesson. Of course he has to swallow his mach and smile at his girl that can suddenly shoot. Heh. Heh. Heh.

Yeah we've had a few of those all right. Those are the funnest one to teach.

83 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:25:13pm

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote

. . .

No the GOP party planks are evil. Racism is evil. Corporate greed is evil. Corruption is evil. The Christian right is evil and hypocritical. Being anti-woman is evil. Being homophobic is evil. Just say it and have done with.

I'm a Christian; I'm on the right; and you are wrong on many points, but I am calling you on this one.

Your conclusion is presented as fact and that is wrong.
And you are wrong on this point
There is nothing, not one thing you can say ever, that will convince me I'm evil.

84 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:25:40pm

re: #75 Floral Giraffe

I don't think posting people's emails is right.
Even thought they might be nasty, pond scum.
"Outing" anyone is just a violation of my sense of basic decency.

I agree with that. Some bloggers have a notice up saying if you email me I reserve the right to publish all of it, including your email-- but I still think it's not cool, personally.
I can understand being angry enough to do it, but there have also been lots of cases where angry readers go 'looking' for the email author and get the wrong guy, who then gets all kinds of harrassment.

Someone evil enough to send email like that is also evil enough to sign someone else's name to it or use a fake email intended to get someone else in trouble, too.

85 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:26:26pm

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote

And then to evil. The biggest thing about evil is always that good folks rationalize ways not to act. The best way to do it is to call something clearly evil, something else.

but isn't that exactly what you hold against the religious right?

86 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:26:31pm

re: #83 reine.de.tout

You can be Christian and on the right and not a part of the "Christian Right".

We all know what he's talking about >>

87 freetoken  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:26:42pm

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

... we found that neutrinos have mass ...

Not only do they have mass, but we found out courtesy of Roland Emmerich that in 2012 the neutrinos from our sun will gain mass and start interacting with the element iron!

Stuff that into your anti-DeSitter space and smoke it...

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:27:17pm

re: #3 freetoken

I wonder what would happen if you admitted you liked arugula or, God forbid, dijon mustard?

Gherkins.

Although Malkin's freakout about the Obama tuna recipe did produce one sterling line from one of her commenters:

"If he does not use mayonnaise, he is not fit to lead."

89 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:27:27pm

re: #84 iceweasel

.. .

Someone evil enough to send email like that is also evil enough to sign someone else's name to it or use a fake email intended to get someone else in trouble, too.

An absolute fact, and one more "trick" they play - they sign up for twitter accounts using someone else's actual real name and location, and post nasty vile tweets.

People are crazy.

90 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:27:58pm

re: #86 windsagio

You can be Christian and on the right and not a part of the "Christian Right".

We all know what he's talking about >>

No, I do not know what he's talking about.
He's talking about ME.
And he's wrong.

91 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:28:01pm

re: #87 freetoken

I always thought an anti-Desitter space was the hemmorhoid cream section at the pharmacy...

92 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:28:17pm

re: #83 reine.de.tout

I'm a Christian; I'm on the right; and you are wrong on many points, but I am calling you on this one.

Your conclusion is presented as fact and that is wrong.
And you are wrong on this point
There is nothing, not one thing you can say ever, that will convince me I'm evil.

There is nothing evil about being Christian. There is nothing evil about being conservative - in the sense that used to mean something respectable and which you are.

There is everything in the world evil about the Pat Robertson, Falwell, Dominionist types. You are not them. I do not count you as one of them.

They however are surely evil.

93 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:28:29pm

re: #89 reine.de.tout

An absolute fact, and one more "trick" they play - they sign up for twitter accounts using someone else's actual real name and location, and post nasty vile tweets.

People are crazy.

Reine, i remember you mentioning one of the stalkers had done that to you on twitter-- were you able to get it shut down?

94 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:28:40pm

re: #80 HoosierHoops

There's been wuite a bit of squabbling around here these days. Now getting sucked into other people's battles is a wise choice.

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:29:02pm

re: #14 jaunte

These angry emailers sure do think about gay sex a lot.

In quite a lot of detail. One does have to both wonder and worry.

96 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:29:07pm

re: #83 reine.de.tout

Maybe we can ask Ludwig to narrow that broad brush a bit? Good grief, you are the anti-evil! :)

97 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:29:26pm

re: #93 iceweasel

Reine, i remember you mentioning one of the stalkers had done that to you on twitter-- were you able to get it shut down?

No.
It's really not important enough to spend time on.
My name is very common, there are about 100 people in the phone book here with my initial and last name. If it were otherwise I might worry more.

98 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:29:26pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Typo much?
/You stink

99 Neutral President  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:30:00pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

No, I do not know what he's talking about.
He's talking about ME.
And he's wrong.

It's a damn shame when their stereotypical caricatures don't pan out isn't it?

100 Stanghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:30:02pm

re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote


So, you and SFZ fence. Lgf is a cool spot

101 Right Handed Neutrino  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:30:18pm

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

Yep, just started a masters in particle physics, the plan is to research CP violation in B mesons. I'm still pretty new to it all but I'm pretty excited about all the interesting stuff there is to learn. But from string theory to chaos, that sounds like quite a leap, and pretty impressive.

102 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:30:41pm

Off to Subway ride home!!!

BBLre: #98 Killgore Trout

Now Not
FTFY

103 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:30:47pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

Typo much?
/You stink

LOL
I always say
/Spell Check: on
/Idiot check: off

104 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:30:50pm

re: #97 reine.de.tout

No.
It's really not important enough to spend time on.
My name is very common, there are about 100 people in the phone book here with my initial and last name. If it were otherwise I might worry more.

Oh ok-- if your name is that common it's less of an issue. Still sucks though, I'm sorry to hear that.

105 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:30:51pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

re: #92 LudwigVanQuixote

There is nothing evil about being Christian. There is nothing evil about being conservative - in the sense that used to mean something respectable and which you are.

There is everything in the world evil about the Pat Robertson, Falwell, Dominionist types. You are not them. I do not count you as one of them.

They however are surely evil.

Requoted 'cuz he said it better. Don't choose to be offended ;)

106 The Curmudgeon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:30:54pm

Charles is way ahead of me in the hate mail department. Most of the stuff that comes to me just says that I'm going to have a hot hereafter. I guess I haven't really hit the big time yet.

107 RogueOne  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:30:56pm

re: #34 darthstar

Charles should post their email addresses with their hate mail. Especially for the ones who are dumb enough to write from work.

Kurt Greenbaum

108 Donna Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:31:05pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

Typo much?
/You stink

You do realize that talking to yourself is the first sign you're loosing it?

109 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:31:27pm

re: #101 Right Handed Neutrino

I did escrima, and fencing looks like a great follow on style to me!

Okay gotta RUN!

110 recusancy  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:31:46pm

re: #92 LudwigVanQuixote

The Christian Right®. Not Christians who are on the right.

111 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:31:54pm

re: #80 HoosierHoops

You're a good man, Hoops. I wish there were more people like you.
{Hoops}

112 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:32:28pm

re: #85 brookly red

And then to evil. The biggest thing about evil is always that good folks rationalize ways not to act. The best way to do it is to call something clearly evil, something else.

but isn't that exactly what you hold against the religious right?

Not at all. Let's use some common sense here ok?

I do not want to get into an abstract game of defining good and evil. That is a sideshow and not the point.

There is a very basic understanding of what is good and what is evil that pretty much every decent person has regardless of religious background.

If you for example see a teenage prostitute and think that here is a poor child that needs help, you are thinking good. If you think she needs prison time to punish her for her sins, you are being evil.

If you think that the state should be careful to only execute people who it is absolutely certain are guilty then you are being good. If you think that of the state executes 100 and 10 were later found innocent, but 9 out of 10 ain't bad, you are being evil.

If you think murdering doctors who perform abortions is a good thing, you are evil.

The list goes on and on. I hope you get the point.

113 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:32:57pm

re: #106 The Curmudgeon

Charles is way ahead of me in the hate mail department. Most of the stuff that comes to me just says that I'm going to have a hot hereafter. I guess I haven't really hit the big time yet.

Don't worry about that stuff..You will be on the cutting edge science of Fusion energy..
/

114 KT Smells like Roses and Ranbows  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:33:34pm

re: #108 Dragon_Lady

You do realize that talking to yourself is the first sign you're loosing it?

Insanity!

115 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:34:06pm

re: #112 LudwigVanQuixote

Not at all. Let's use some common sense here ok?

I do not want to get into an abstract game of defining good and evil. That is a sideshow and not the point.

There is a very basic understanding of what is good and what is evil that pretty much every decent person has regardless of religious background.

If you for example see a teenage prostitute and think that here is a poor child that needs help, you are thinking good. If you think she needs prison time to punish her for her sins, you are being evil.

If you think that the state should be careful to only execute people who it is absolutely certain are guilty then you are being good. If you think that of the state executes 100 and 10 were later found innocent, but 9 out of 10 ain't bad, you are being evil.

If you think murdering doctors who perform abortions is a good thing, you are evil.

The list goes on and on. I hope you get the point.

I get the point... you feel that you are qualified to define evil.

116 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:34:07pm

re: #105 windsagio

re: #92 LudwigVanQuixote

Requoted 'cuz he said it better. Don't choose to be offended ;)

I'm not angry - or offended, I don't know LVQ, he can think what he wants
and I will counter it if i think it needs to be countered.

And that will be that.
On a different topic, we very well may have a perfectly civil exchange.

117 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:34:10pm

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

The people who wrote those emails are retarded.

I just found out Emanuel was talking about liberals with his screw up. He called them "fucking retarded" when they suggested campaigning against the blue dogs opposing the health bill.

118 Donna Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:34:15pm

re: #103 HoosierHoops

LOL
I always say
/Spell Check: on
/Idiot check: off

Very well done, my dear, very well done indeed! Upding for you!

119 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:35:08pm

re: #115 brookly red

do you think any of those positions he outlined are good?

don't dodge :p

120 Donna Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:35:52pm

re: #117 avanti

I just found out Emanuel was talking about liberals with his screw up. He called them "fucking retarded" when they suggested campaigning against the blue dogs opposing the health bill.

Nice to know what he thinks of his own party, isn't it? Just another happy camper in the dem crowd.

121 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:36:09pm

re: #101 Right Handed Neutrino

Yep, just started a masters in particle physics, the plan is to research CP violation in B mesons. I'm still pretty new to it all but I'm pretty excited about all the interesting stuff there is to learn. But from string theory to chaos, that sounds like quite a leap, and pretty impressive.

It's less of a leap than you might think in some ways and a huge one in others. The math of chaos theory is entirely different than what you encounter in strings. Strings is all Algebra, Topology and Geometry with heavy doses of K theory and such.

Chaos is a lot more like Analysis.

Also, Chaos allows you to be an experimentalist as well as doing theory and it is one of the few branches where this is still possible. That is part of why I love it.

However, the MAth itself is just as fasciinating if different, and a love of abstraction plays a very similar role in both fields - at least for me.

122 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:36:48pm

re: #119 windsagio

do you think any of those positions he outlined are good?

don't dodge :p

no, but I don't call others evil with the exception of terrorists.

123 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:37:32pm

"Suck on a big fat one, fat boy."

Since when is suggesting someone go smoke a big sticky fatty an insult?

No mon, that is yours.

124 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:37:47pm

re: #112 LudwigVanQuixote

Not at all. Let's use some common sense here ok?

I do not want to get into an abstract game of defining good and evil. That is a sideshow and not the point.

There is a very basic understanding of what is good and what is evil that pretty much every decent person has regardless of religious background.

If you for example see a teenage prostitute and think that here is a poor child that needs help, you are thinking good. If you think she needs prison time to punish her for her sins, you are being evil.

If you think that the state should be careful to only execute people who it is absolutely certain are guilty then you are being good. If you think that of the state executes 100 and 10 were later found innocent, but 9 out of 10 ain't bad, you are being evil.

If you think murdering doctors who perform abortions is a good thing, you are evil.

The list goes on and on. I hope you get the point.

Well, I do get the point LVQ.
And I agree with most of what you've written.
And I'm a Christian, and I'm on the "right" of most issues.
And all I ask is that you please do not think that "Christians on the right" are all hypocritical and evil. and you made that point also, earlier, so that's that.

125 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:38:10pm

Night all. Reine, Made some minor corrections to the recipe. They are listed in my 478 in the last thread.

See ya all on the flip side.

126 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:38:25pm

re: #125 Bubblehead II

Night all. Reine, Made some minor corrections to the recipe. They are listed in my 478 in the last thread.

See ya all on the flip side.

OK!
I'll grab it

127 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:38:42pm

re: #122 brookly red

Really? I can't believe you just said that.

Is Ted Bundy Evil? How about Stalin?

128 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:38:43pm

re: #120 Dragon_Lady

Nice to know what he thinks of his own party, isn't it? Just another happy camper in the dem crowd.

I agree with the sentiment, if not the language. Purging moderates out of either party is lame.

129 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:38:49pm

re: #115 brookly red

I get the point... you feel that you are qualified to define evil.

Then you clearly missed the point. I think I clearly said I was not going for an abstract definition of good an evil, but a common sense one which most rational people share.

Think of it like pornography. I have no desire to define it, but everyone knows it when they see it. If something is in a grey zone, then fine different people can have different takes. However, anyone who thinks that Bottom debutantes gangbanged in spandex# 87 ( I just made that title up, I have no idea if it exists) is anything other than porn is a moron.

130 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:39:19pm

re: #127 windsagio

whups, I"m falling into the 'sideshow'.

131 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:39:40pm

re: #117 avanti

I just found out Emanuel was talking about liberals with his screw up. He called them "fucking retarded" when they suggested campaigning against the blue dogs opposing the health bill.

yeah, he's talking about the FDL/Jane Hamsher contingent. Who imo as well are behaving fucking stupidly. I wouldn't have used the r word, but I can't say I disagree with his point.

132 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:39:48pm

re: #80 HoosierHoops

Speaking of emails.. I just got an email from a long time Lizard pissed at me cause I shown kindness to certain lizards here.. I guess I need to draw sides in the Sand..
Let's clear this shit up right now...I will not be drawn into a personal fight or war here..I show kindness to many here as many do me...
The petty behind the scenes must stop.. So in this spirit I will forward your email to Charles...And you will hate my reply in the Morning..Stop hiding behind the curtain Lizard...

Good for you.
Absolutely AMAZING, the things people do.

133 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:40:43pm

re: #132 Floral Giraffe

Good for you.
Absolutely AMAZING, the things people do.

It's been going on for a while.

134 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:40:47pm

re: #124 reine.de.tout

Well, I do get the point LVQ.
And I agree with most of what you've written.
And I'm a Christian, and I'm on the "right" of most issues.
And all I ask is that you please do not think that "Christians on the right" are all hypocritical and evil. and you made that point also, earlier, so that's that.

I am so very glad to clear that up. I have no beef with you at all. I have also no beef with Christians in general. Since we know what I am talking about when it comes to the Religious Right now, I hope there will be no future miss understanding.

135 Donna Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:41:02pm

re: #128 avanti

I agree with the sentiment, if not the language. Purging moderates out of either party is lame.

Thats what the Republican party has done to me, I'm about to jump parties because of the religious B.S. they keep spouting.

136 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:41:05pm

I was trying to think of something more juvenile than ""SUCK SHIT YOU FUCKING COCKHEAD!!!"...and then i realized, it's typing it and then telling us how hilarious you think it was via the "LOL!!!"

137 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:41:20pm

re: #131 iceweasel

yeah, he's talking about the FDL/Jane Hamsher contingent. Who imo as well are behaving fucking stupidly. I wouldn't have used the r word, but I can't say I disagree with his point.

Yeah...what's wrong with fucking dumbshits?

138 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:41:39pm

re: #127 windsagio

Really? I can't believe you just said that.

Is Ted Bundy Evil? How about Stalin?

get a grip... your boy was calling all republicans evil, like it was his call to make.

yes go ahead do your ted bundy straw man.

139 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:42:08pm

re: #112 LudwigVanQuixote

Not at all. Let's use some common sense here ok?

I do not want to get into an abstract game of defining good and evil. That is a sideshow and not the point.

And then you proceed to put on a sideshow.

140 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:42:29pm

re: #83 reine.de.tout

I agree, I think there is a better way to "disagree" than calling someone "evil". "Evil" ends any chance of a dialog, IMHO.

141 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:43:02pm

re: #134 LudwigVanQuixote

I am so very glad to clear that up. I have no beef with you at all. I have also no beef with Christians in general. Since we know what I am talking about when it comes to the Religious Right now, I hope there will be no future miss understanding.

What have you got against the Miss Understanding pageant?

142 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:43:05pm

re: #138 brookly red

my point is that you're obfuscating :P

Everyone calls people evil, and everyone recognizes truly evil people/things when they see it. Its not really honest to deny that :p

143 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:43:07pm

re: #140 Floral Giraffe

I agree, I think there is a better way to "disagree" than calling someone "evil". "Evil" ends any chance of a dialog, IMHO.

Or it starts a really fun one! (quick...pull me out!!!)

144 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:43:54pm

re: #140 Floral Giraffe

I agree, I think there is a better way to "disagree" than calling someone "evil". "Evil" ends any chance of a dialog, IMHO.

Evil Empire anyone?

145 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:44:21pm

re: #97 reine.de.tout

No.
It's really not important enough to spend time on.
My name is very common, there are about 100 people in the phone book here with my initial and last name. If it were otherwise I might worry more.

Glad you are well concealed!
{{Reine}}

146 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:44:32pm

re: #144 PT Barnum

Evil Empire anyone?

Axis of Evil?

147 Donna Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:44:56pm

Time for me to go pick up RWC at the station. Might be back later, depending on if RWC wants to log in or not. Take care all, Keep Laughing!

148 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:45:04pm

re: #144 PT Barnum

I don't think that was a request for dialog.

149 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:45:14pm

re: #143 Aceofwhat?

oh by the way, sorry to duck out on that convo about Twain the other day Ace, I didn't really konw what to say back and I was tired :p

Seeing another person who had actually read it made me super-happy :D

150 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:45:15pm

re: #141 Alouette

What have you got against the Miss Understanding pageant?

Oh, quit now.
:-)

151 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:45:21pm

re: #142 windsagio

my point is that you're obfuscating :P

Everyone calls people evil, and everyone recognizes truly evil people/things when they see it. Its not really honest to deny that :p

well that is exactly what the right says they are doing, so either it's wrong or it's right but you can't have it both ways.

152 Bingo.Long  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:45:31pm

Wear them as marks of pride, CJ.
(But mind the dangerous ones, of course.)
As long as you're pissing off wingnuts like them, you're green.
(A syntactic pattern search would no doubt turn up the Stormfront/HotAir/FreeRepublic/Politico rocks they hide under.)

153 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:45:42pm

re: #139 Alouette

And then you proceed to put on a sideshow.

And how is that. I was simply defining my terms. Do you think the things I listed are good Alouette? Torah is pretty clear about that.

Take the capital punishment for example... you know as well as I do that a court that executed twice in ten years was disbanded and called a court of murderers? Care to debate the other points?

154 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:46:08pm

re: #149 windsagio

oh by the way, sorry to duck out on that convo about Twain the other day Ace, I didn't really konw what to say back and I was tired :p

Seeing another person who had actually read it made me super-happy :D

all is well, dude. i enjoyed it.

155 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:46:52pm

re: #151 brookly red

They'd be right to try to differentiate, I just think their definitions suck... And are being used cynically.

either way, 'grats, hijack complete :p

156 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:47:14pm

evil is the work of the Devil...curse him and his unHolyness....hunt him down, find him and bring him to Me bound in the Chains of the Lord!....we are on a mission my friends!...start at your local GOP Office of Death and Destruction!....he can't be everywhere at once!

157 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:47:34pm

i feel that when our teacup chihuahua pees in my bathroom, she is evil. but that is because i believe her intentions to be evil...

158 webevintage  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:47:52pm

Oh GOODY!!
My favorite game....
Crazy mail into LOL:

Y HALO THAR
CHARLEZ, LOOKZ LIEK U HAS HAD UR TIEM IN DA SUN. ONCE DIS ARTICLE RUNS ITZ COURSE U WILL BE FORGOTTEN AN WILL FADE AWAY. NO WAN WILL CARE BOUT UR OPINIONS NOMORE CUZ U R NOT 2 BE TRUSTD. U WUZ NEVR EMBRACD BY TEH LEFT ONCE U TURND ON TEH RITE AN THEY HAS THEIR FAVORITEZ 2 TURN 2 ANYWAYS. U R DUN ENJOY UR LONELY WALK 2 IRRELEVANCE. PUBLISH DIS PLZ.

and

Y HALO THAR
SUCK SHIT U F&^%ING COCKHEAD!!! LULZ!!!
GUD BAI

I can't decide which is funnier.
Idiots.

159 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:47:59pm

re: #133 iceweasel

I guess "some people" just have too much time on their hands.
They'd rather be angry than happy.

Well, it's nice to have a hobby.
( I think it was Aisha that gave me that one)

160 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:48:08pm

re: #155 windsagio

They'd be right to try to differentiate, I just think their definitions suck... And are being used cynically.

either way, 'grats, hijack complete :p

OK when you do it OK when they do it bad, hear you loud & clear.

161 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:48:25pm

re: #131 iceweasel

yeah, he's talking about the FDL/Jane Hamsher contingent. Who imo as well are behaving fucking stupidly. I wouldn't have used the r word, but I can't say I disagree with his point.

The first time I blogged was after watching Blog Wars 2 on the Sundance Channel.. So I gave Jane my Blog Cherry...
I'm a centralist so my travels have been interesting...I found a home here.. I can be myself

162 Racer X  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:48:50pm

Anonymity on the web makes people brazen. I try to converse with people the same as I would in real life. Unfortunately I don't always succeed, but I do try.

163 Stanghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:48:51pm

Ok! as a new person here you guys with your battle against ludwig sucks for us and the damn blog.

164 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:48:55pm

re: #148 jaunte

I don't think that was a request for dialog.

I was trying to point out that use of those terms in public discourse

165 RogueOne  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:49:04pm

re: #137 PT Barnum

Yeah...what's wrong with fucking dumbshits?

You end up with dumbshit kids:
Image: bitches-dont-know-about-my-popsicle.jpg

166 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:49:06pm

re: #158 webevintage

the second guy, for sure. we can actually hear himself cracking himself up over his witty, rapier-like strike. priceless.

167 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:49:16pm

Who told you that tea party supporters weren’t supporting Brown? Strawman much?

And speaking of teabagging, what do you like? You like a bear with hairy testicles, a new fish with barely a hair on them? Dipped in anything before you suck? Do you like to lick or suck first? Straight to the shaft after that or are you a rim job type of guy?


This character seems to be quite knowledgable on the subject...apparently this is what is known as the voice of experience.
(someone is really mad at daddy!)

168 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:49:20pm

Charles-
Keep fighting the good fight because that's what REALLY makes 'em go beserker!

169 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:49:27pm

re: #165 RogueOne

LOL!!!

170 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:49:38pm

how do I sound?...

171 webevintage  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:50:10pm

re: #24 recusancy

Re: the thread downstairs where people didn't believe that the GOP is male dominated. This might be one reason why:

What an ass,

172 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:50:23pm

re: #170 albusteve

how do I sound?...

what?

173 Racer X  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:50:27pm

re: #170 albusteve

how do I sound?...

The same as you look.

174 Crimsonfisted  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:50:29pm

re: #161 HoosierHoops

So I gave Jane my Blog Cherry...


WTMI I think. eww. Brain bleach is in order. I don't think I can now get that image out of my head.

175 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:50:41pm

re: #162 Racer X

Anonymity on the web makes people brazen. I try to converse with people the same as I would in real life. Unfortunately I don't always succeed, but I do try.

I try to.
Don't always succeed, but I do try.
When i find myself pounding the keyboard instead of simply typing, I know it's time to take a break. And usually I do.

176 RogueOne  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:51:01pm

re: #169 PT Barnum

He's very proud of that popsicle

177 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:51:08pm

re: #173 Racer X

The same as you look.

what the?.....I want a contract

178 Right Handed Neutrino  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:51:42pm

re: #121 LudwigVanQuixote

I see what you mean, there definitely seems to be similarity between the two. Still, I find it pretty cool that you were able to switch like that, physics sometimes seems to me like a bunch of parallel railroads tracks that rarely cross, it's nice to hear that you can switch trains once in a while.

On that note I shall be going, nice meeting you!

179 freetoken  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:52:37pm

re: #121 LudwigVanQuixote


Also, Chaos allows you to be an experimentalist as well as doing theory and it is one of the few branches where this is still possible. That is part of why I love it.

I've toyed with the idea of going back and getting a Ph.D... but at my age I'm not sure what I'd do with it. My MS is in computer science, but my undergrad was physics/math, yet going back into a physical science is probably undoable at this point. I'm fascinated by paleontology (have been since I was a kid) but it would take many years to get through a program (even assuming I could get into one.)

As I've aged I've forgotten so much. It's still possible to learn new things - but it takes longer. Much longer.

And I've reached the point where I am quite disgusted with academia.

Hope the best for your professional endeavors. My own fellow undergrads that I've kept up with have abandoned doing physics as far as I can tell. One (who went on to get a PhD from Princeton) bailed rather early on. Another (PhD) ended up doing more science management/lobbying than real research. In my career the Physics PhDs I knew that seemed happiest were the Earth science types (atmospheres and oceans) - I think because they got out every once in a while and played in the ocean or with the sky that it helped.

180 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:52:40pm

re: #159 Floral Giraffe

I guess "some people" just have too much time on their hands.
They'd rather be angry than happy.

Well, it's nice to have a hobby.
( I think it was Aisha that gave me that one)

In some cases it's an outlet for rage from their personal lives, or a distraction from real life issues, I always think.
There are so many genuine things to be upset about, why get so incensed over pixels?
it is a mystery!

181 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:53:40pm

re: #80 HoosierHoops

Speaking of emails.. I just got an email from a long time Lizard pissed at me cause I shown kindness to certain lizards here.. I guess I need to draw sides in the Sand..
Let's clear this shit up right now...I will not be drawn into a personal fight or war here..I show kindness to many here as many do me...
The petty behind the scenes must stop.. So in this spirit I will forward your email to Charles...And you will hate my reply in the Morning..Stop hiding behind the curtain Lizard...

Are you saying that people here secretly gossip and form cliques?

182 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:54:07pm

re: #181 Spare O'Lake

Are you saying that people here secretly gossip and form cliques?

Gasp...

183 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:54:07pm

re: #178 Right Handed Neutrino

I see what you mean, there definitely seems to be similarity between the two. Still, I find it pretty cool that you were able to switch like that, physics sometimes seems to me like a bunch of parallel railroads tracks that rarely cross, it's nice to hear that you can switch trains once in a while.

On that note I shall be going, nice meeting you!

Nice meeting you too. Please let's talk more in the future and good luck with your degree!

184 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:54:12pm

re: #181 Spare O'Lake

I told you not to let on.

185 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:54:26pm

re: #180 iceweasel

its actually really easy :p

1. Its human nature to enjoy getting angry and outraged.

2. Its feels 'safe' to go after people when they're not right next to you (ie with the anynomity)

1+2 = internet!

186 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:55:07pm

re: #184 jaunte

I told you not to let on.

Crap, Jaunte, they're onto us
How will we ever finish the cookbook?

187 webevintage  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:55:30pm

re: #131 iceweasel

yeah, he's talking about the FDL/Jane Hamsher contingent. Who imo as well are behaving fucking stupidly. I wouldn't have used the r word, but I can't say I disagree with his point.

No doubt....
But using the "r" word got Sarah's panties all in a bunch so that was entertaining because you know anytime anyone says anything they are talking about her kid.

(Seriously, I love Palin's posts on Facebook they are so full of teh awesome)

188 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:55:40pm

re: #174 Crimsonfisted

WTMI I think. eww. Brain bleach is in order. I don't think I can now get that image out of my head.

LOL
I was sitting in a Hotel room and I saw this movie about Blogging...I just tripped and had a blast blogging at FDL..I left there 3 years ago during my travels across the blogs..I never flounced from my friends I met there.. My Nic is NapaValleyHomer at FDL to this day..

189 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:56:17pm

re: #187 webevintage

if I were really willing to reopen that can of beans, I'd say it was manufactured outrage ;)

190 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:57:00pm

To everyone out there who caught the cold I had last week -
It's only a week.
Then the coughing will disappear.
Just hang in there.

191 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:57:08pm

re: #187 webevintage

No doubt...
But using the "r" word got Sarah's panties all in a bunch so that was entertaining because you know anytime anyone says anything they are talking about her kid.

(Seriously, I love Palin's posts on Facebook they are so full of teh awesome)

That's what's always made me giggle about the charges against Obama that he's a narcissist. It's usually made by people who think Sarah is just a humble housewife from Wasilla.

192 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:57:11pm

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

That's a meme from 2.0. They falsely think that Charles once drunk their cool aid - which he never did, and as a result reasonable people will always hate him, which they do not. The people there like to think that everyone hates Charles as much as they do. It's a strength in numbers pack mentality thing from weak beta males.

In other words, the flouncers and haters that continue to stalk and harass Charles and other Lizards are a bunch of f**king pansies..."Screen Berets" indeed.

193 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:57:18pm

re: #187 webevintage

No doubt...
But using the "r" word got Sarah's panties all in a bunch so that was entertaining because you know anytime anyone says anything they are talking about her kid.

(Seriously, I love Palin's posts on Facebook they are so full of teh awesome)

i should probably start reading it.

Summer should collect all his (her?) Palin channelling posts and pop them on a blog somewhere. Letters From Sarah or something. I'd read that!

194 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:58:27pm

speaking of non sense,is the stalker site still up and running?i haven't seen much commentary about it lately.

195 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:58:48pm

re: #185 windsagio

its actually really easy :p

1. Its human nature to enjoy getting angry and outraged.

2. Its feels 'safe' to go after people when they're not right next to you (ie with the anynomity)

1+2 = internet!

These people need an Xbox. I mean, as long as you're sitting in front of a screen, might as well shoot some aliens.

(isn't that a famous quote..."i would rather kill zombies and be thought a fool than open my mouth and remove all doubt"?)

196 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:58:49pm

re: #80 HoosierHoops

Much appreciated, Hoops. Even though we don't always agree on everything by any means, I have to say I think you are one of the most decent and fair minded people posting on this blog.

197 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:58:55pm

re: #185 windsagio

its actually really easy :p

1. Its human nature to enjoy getting angry and outraged.

2. Its feels 'safe' to go after people when they're not right next to you (ie with the anynomity)

1+2 = internet!

That explains trolls and flames, but not concerted constant behind the scenes campaigns against people you only know from the internet. That's a mystery.

198 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:59:21pm

re: #194 Boondock St. Bender

speaking of non sense,is the stalker site still up and running?i haven't seen much commentary about it lately.

They are B.O.R.I.N.G.
It is B.O.R.I.N.G.

Not much to say, really

199 diamonda2u  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:59:33pm

re: #14 jaunte

Yeah, that stands out like a sore thumb. Go to any site where they don't like the post and the hate mail comments are the same, gay sex based rants.

Their hypocrisy is showing.

200 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 5:59:59pm

A big bar of Lava liberally applied orally would go a long way to improve the discourse between Charles and his secret but smelly admirers.

201 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:00:19pm

re: #179 freetoken

I've toyed with the idea of going back and getting a Ph.D... but at my age I'm not sure what I'd do with it. My MS is in computer science, but my undergrad was physics/math, yet going back into a physical science is probably undoable at this point. I'm fascinated by paleontology (have been since I was a kid) but it would take many years to get through a program (even assuming I could get into one.)

As I've aged I've forgotten so much. It's still possible to learn new things - but it takes longer. Much longer.

And I've reached the point where I am quite disgusted with academia.

Hope the best for your professional endeavors. My own fellow undergrads that I've kept up with have abandoned doing physics as far as I can tell. One (who went on to get a PhD from Princeton) bailed rather early on. Another (PhD) ended up doing more science management/lobbying than real research. In my career the Physics PhDs I knew that seemed happiest were the Earth science types (atmospheres and oceans) - I think because they got out every once in a while and played in the ocean or with the sky that it helped.

As to going back and getting your PhD, this is the advice that I give to everyone who says they are thinking about doing it.

The reward for doing physics or math very very well is the chance to do more physics and math. Unless you truly love the field, do not do it. The money is not there and the pain to pleasure ratio isn't either.

If on the other hand you do love it, then there is nothing else for you and you will hate your life doing whatever else if you never tried.

As to my career, like all jobs the day to day of science has its ups and downs and share of things that will make you insane. It is the highs though of finding something new out that make it worth doing - that and the chance to make a difference.

There are many other ways to make a difference in the world also. However, if you have the skills to be a scientist, there are not many people who can do the job of science. It's a privilege to work in the field.

So short form. If you love it, do it. The politics in math and physics are much less notable in academia than you might think. Either you are right or you are wrong. Either the data is there or it isn't. It cuts through a lot of BS. Not all of it, but more than you might think.

202 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:00:36pm

re: #197 iceweasel

I think it sthe same thing. They love the feeling of outrage.

Then they feel guilty when others don't seem to share the outrage.

Thats just my take tho'.


re: #195 Aceofwhat?

I love you so much.

203 irish rose  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:00:59pm

Good evening, lizards.
Hate never takes a vacation.

204 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:01:03pm

re: #199 diamonda2u

I'm pretty sure they're not thinking 'I'm gonna defend traditional marriage' when they write that stuff.

205 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:01:06pm

re: #80 HoosierHoops

Speaking of emails.. I just got an email from a long time Lizard pissed at me cause I shown kindness to certain lizards here.. I guess I need to draw sides in the Sand..
Let's clear this shit up right now...I will not be drawn into a personal fight or war here..I show kindness to many here as many do me...
The petty behind the scenes must stop.. So in this spirit I will forward your email to Charles...And you will hate my reply in the Morning..Stop hiding behind the curtain Lizard...

As always hoops you are awesome.

206 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:01:35pm

Good evening, nefarious, shape shifting lizards.

207 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:02:04pm

re: #199 diamonda2u

Yeah, that stands out like a sore thumb. Go to any site where they don't like the post and the hate mail comments are the same, gay sex based rants.

Their hypocrisy is showing.

Is it worse to call someone a faggot that a retard?

208 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:02:08pm

How odd. I don't *feel* like a sycophant.

209 irish rose  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:02:25pm

re: #194 Boondock St. Bender

speaking of non sense,is the stalker site still up and running?i haven't seen much commentary about it lately.

Probably because they're so damned boring.

210 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:02:29pm

re: #207 Spare O'Lake

than

211 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:02:48pm

re: #202 windsagio


re: #195 Aceofwhat?

I love you so much.

you're sweet, blondie-

212 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:02:57pm

re: #153 LudwigVanQuixote

And how is that. I was simply defining my terms. Do you think the things I listed are good Alouette? Torah is pretty clear about that.

Take the capital punishment for example... you know as well as I do that a court that executed twice in ten years was disbanded and called a court of murderers? Care to debate the other points?

I was only pointing out the contradiction in your post. You said you didn't want to get into the details of defining good and evil, and then you got into the details of defining good and evil.

A "Beis Din shel Damin" was a court that executed twice in seventy years, not ten years.

213 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:03:07pm

Gotta go read to my son...Percy Jackson Book 1

Quality time...

214 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:03:08pm

re: #207 Spare O'Lake

Substantially :p

215 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:03:09pm

re: #191 PT Barnum

what is seen as an unforgivable flaw in your enemy,is usually overlooked when it comes to your guy.churchill used the word i every 35 words as opposed to hitlers 53 rooevelt used it every 100....alot of to do about nothing.

216 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:03:21pm

re: #190 reine.de.tout

Speaking of cookbook, I'm going to send you some progress pics tomorrow.
Maybe we can produce some Cafe Press coffee mugs or something while the rest of it gets done.

217 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:03:48pm

re: #180 iceweasel

Speaking of mysteries...
How goes the immigration trauma?
(LOL, all I can think of is import permit)!

218 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:04:03pm

re: #195 Aceofwhat?

There's nothing foolish about killing zombies....

219 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:04:09pm

re: #180 iceweasel

It's important to remind oneself that it's the internet and no one is a winner. It's like Alices Restaurant, with out the hippies (ah, the smelly, fun loving hippies)...but with the ramble and the garbage, and, occasionally, the sunshine and you learn something new or look at something familiar differently or it's just funny or you just shake your head and say, yeah, shit yeah. I like a good 'shit yeah.' Attackerman's good for that.

I skip the EST AM anymore as I get a bad vibe and the last hate fest threads. But I dig the links you post overnight (and Freetoken's and Thanos') as, after getting the kids off to bed, reading is my AM activity.

Shoulder on! Life is grand.

220 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:04:15pm

re: #215 Boondock St. Bender

Exactly!

221 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:04:55pm

re: #188 HoosierHoops

LOL
I was sitting in a Hotel room and I saw this movie about Blogging...I just tripped and had a blast blogging at FDL..I left there 3 years ago during my travels across the blogs..I never flounced from my friends I met there.. My Nic is NapaValleyHomer at FDL to this day..

Homer.
So YOU are Homer?
LOL!

222 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:05:17pm

re: #218 Boondock St. Bender

There's nothing foolish about killing zombies...

i think we're going to get along...

223 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:05:24pm

re: #179 freetoken

I've toyed with the idea of going back and getting a Ph.D... but at my age I'm not sure what I'd do with it. My MS is in computer science, but my undergrad was physics/math, yet going back into a physical science is probably undoable at this point. I'm fascinated by paleontology (have been since I was a kid) but it would take many years to get through a program (even assuming I could get into one.)

As I've aged I've forgotten so much. It's still possible to learn new things - but it takes longer. Much longer.

And I've reached the point where I am quite disgusted with academia.

Hope the best for your professional endeavors. My own fellow undergrads that I've kept up with have abandoned doing physics as far as I can tell. One (who went on to get a PhD from Princeton) bailed rather early on. Another (PhD) ended up doing more science management/lobbying than real research. In my career the Physics PhDs I knew that seemed happiest were the Earth science types (atmospheres and oceans) - I think because they got out every once in a while and played in the ocean or with the sky that it helped.

Freetoken - in my many years in HR, I often talked to people who wanted to go back to school and get this or that degree, and they always ended by saying, "But, it'll take 3 years and in 3 years I'll be X years old!".

You see, they've asked themselves the wrong question.
The question is not how old will I be when I finish, because in 3 years, you're going to be 3 years older no matter what you do.

The question is: What do you want to be doing with your life in 3 years?

If you think you want to do it, go for it.

224 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:05:46pm

re: #216 jaunte

Speaking of cookbook, I'm going to send you some progress pics tomorrow.
Maybe we can produce some Cafe Press coffee mugs or something while the rest of it gets done.

That sounds great!

225 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:05:56pm

re: #194 Boondock St. Bender

speaking of non sense,is the stalker site still up and running?i haven't seen much commentary about it lately.

Boring bunch of wanna be's.
Sorry loosers.

226 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:06:03pm

finally...my albusteve Fan Club is up and running, been too long folks, I know....anyway my office is now set up to take your donations, and you WILL walk away with a cool albusteve ball point pen at the very least!...go for it and I'll send you my great new 8 x 11 glossy, signed by you know who!...additionally I have an after hours Hotline for my Eurofans and assorted drunkards...1-800-albu-steve....give me a call early and often for the latest updates on my posting gig, here, there and elsewhere...we will help you keep up!...I love you guys!

227 seltzer123  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:06:11pm

So... Obama makes the statement "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college"

This leads to a major DrudgeReport headline "HE DID IT AGAIN: 'YOU DON'T BLOW A BUNCH OF CASH IN VEGAS' "

Question: Was Obama supposed to tell people, "Don't save for college. Go blow your cash in Vagas?"

228 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:06:35pm

re: #226 albusteve

finally...my albusteve Fan Club is up and running, been too long folks, I know...anyway my office is now set up to take your donations, and you WILL walk away with a cool albusteve ball point pen at the very least!...go for it and I'll send you my great new 8 x 11 glossy, signed by you know who!...additionally I have an after hours Hotline for my Eurofans and assorted drunkards...1-800-albu-steve...give me a call early and often for the latest updates on my posting gig, here, there and elsewhere...we will help you keep up!...I love you guys!

Hi Steve!
:)

229 freetoken  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:06:52pm

Making the techno-sphere rounds today:

Youtube Video

Hehe... Jobs probably wouldn't even have to pay Patrick Stewart to do an iPad commercial...

230 webevintage  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:06:56pm

WTH? is the matter with John McCain?

[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org...]

231 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:07:03pm

re: #226 albusteve

How much for the Jamaica treasure map?

232 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:07:38pm

re: #228 Varek Raith

Hi Steve!
:)

whoa! careful there!....how you doin?

233 Racer X  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:07:44pm

re: #226 albusteve

finally...my albusteve Fan Club is up and running, been too long folks, I know...anyway my office is now set up to take your donations, and you WILL walk away with a cool albusteve ball point pen at the very least!...go for it and I'll send you my great new 8 x 11 glossy, signed by you know who!...additionally I have an after hours Hotline for my Eurofans and assorted drunkards...1-800-albu-steve...give me a call early and often for the latest updates on my posting gig, here, there and elsewhere...we will help you keep up!...I love you guys!

Your web site is down.

:-(

234 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:07:56pm

re: #203 irish rose

Hi Rose!
Hope you are well.
Nice to "see" you!

235 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:08:00pm

re: #232 albusteve

whoa! careful there!...how you doin?

Not bad, you?

236 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:08:15pm

re: #203 irish rose

How's your hydroponics coming along? Any luck?

237 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:08:26pm

re: #233 Racer X

phone number also doesn't work :(

I think its too long or something.

238 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:08:34pm

re: #227 seltzer123

ok how can anyone find fault with what obama said...well unless you own a casino...then i could see a problem....

239 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:08:56pm

re: #231 jaunte

How much for the Jamaica treasure map?

it's all in the design of the banana trees...seriously...sit down and read the trees and you might find it

240 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:09:02pm

re: #219 Jeff In Ohio

It's important to remind oneself that it's the internet and no one is a winner. It's like Alices Restaurant, with out the hippies (ah, the smelly, fun loving hippies)...but with the ramble and the garbage, and, occasionally, the sunshine and you learn something new or look at something familiar differently or it's just funny or you just shake your head and say, yeah, shit yeah. I like a good 'shit yeah.' Attackerman's good for that.

I skip the EST AM anymore as I get a bad vibe and the last hate fest threads. But I dig the links you post overnight (and Freetoken's and Thanos') as, after getting the kids off to bed, reading is my AM activity.

Shoulder on! Life is grand.

Cheers! Agree with you.
Be advised that the morning thread is traditionally the Bitching Hour on LGF, basically from 4am to 7am PST. The trolls flounce on the overnights, and there's often squabbling because the Head Lizard is presumed to be sleeping.
Traditionally the sunrise here has been celebrated by the ritual gang beating of a liberal.
That's been changing, but I guess no one likes mornings. :)
FT posts some nice calming music usually too.

241 webevintage  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:09:11pm

re: #227 seltzer123

So... Obama makes the statement "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college"

This leads to a major DrudgeReport headline "HE DID IT AGAIN: 'YOU DON'T BLOW A BUNCH OF CASH IN VEGAS' "

That is just a bizarre headline.

242 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:09:24pm

re: #216 jaunte

Baseball caps were well received, as an idea....

243 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:09:39pm

re: #83 reine.de.tout

I'm a Christian; I'm on the right; and you are wrong on many points, but I am calling you on this one.

Your conclusion is presented as fact and that is wrong.
And you are wrong on this point
There is nothing, not one thing you can say ever, that will convince me I'm evil.

Not to put words in LVQ's mouth I think he probably means the organized hierarchical far socon Christian right, the Focus on the Family people, Pat Robertson's followers, and assorted similar bigoted groups. Not people who vote Republican or identify as right-wing who are Christians. Otherwise most of my extended family is evil, hah. :D

Obviously right wing Christians are not all evil. But Dobsonites? Evil. The new face of organized bigotry.

244 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:09:49pm

re: #235 Varek Raith

Not bad, you?

I'm my jolly, super celebrity self!...have you seen my web page amigo?

245 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:09:59pm

re: #240 iceweasel

Man, I get off work, take a quick peek, see the echo-chamber at full volume, and then go to bed :p

246 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:10:02pm

re: #221 Floral Giraffe

Homer.
So YOU are Homer?
LOL!

Yup that's me..The first place I ever blogged in the world...
I used to pray for Jane on FDL when she got Cancer...

247 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:10:45pm

re: #233 Racer X

Your web site is down.

:-(

how embarrassing...my peeps are on it tho!

248 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:10:54pm

re: #231 jaunte

How much for the Jamaica treasure map?

Ding Ding Ding!
We have a winnah!

249 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:11:26pm

re: #246 HoosierHoops

Jane's good hardworking people.

250 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:11:29pm

re: #238 Boondock St. Bender

ok how can anyone find fault with what obama said...well unless you own a casino...then i could see a problem...

or change the sheets in a hotel, or drive a cab, or wait tables, serve cocktails, sweep floors, park cars, etc, etc....

251 irish rose  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:11:45pm

re: #234 Floral Giraffe

Howdy.
I am well and thanks for asking... too busy with school and an impending move to do much posting anywhere right now. I have a rare evening free tonight so I thought I'd pop in.

252 freetoken  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:11:56pm

re: #230 webevintage

WTH? is the matter with John McCain?

[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org...]

McCain is running against a Tea Partier now... and after having lost to the Rove-machinate right wing in 2000, and having lost in 2008 because, he is told, he was not "conservative" enough, John McCain has finally realized what it will take to carry that (R) label after one's name.

253 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:11:59pm

re: #243 WindUpBird

Not to put words in LVQ's mouth I think he probably means the organized hierarchical far socon Christian right, the Focus on the Family people, Pat Robertson's followers, and assorted similar bigoted groups. Not people who vote Republican or identify as right-wing who are Christians. Otherwise most of my extended family is evil, hah. :D

Obviously right wing Christians are not all evil. But Dobsonites? Evil. The new face of organized bigotry.

so you're saying that your extended family isn't evil?

//

254 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:12:43pm

re: #245 windsagio

Man, I get off work, take a quick peek, see the echo-chamber at full volume, and then go to bed :p

Echo Echo Echo

255 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:12:56pm

re: #245 windsagio

Man, I get off work, take a quick peek, see the echo-chamber at full volume, and then go to bed :p

yeah, it's the time to let lose the dogs of war, apparently. Sometimes I hang in, sometimes not.
Or the kittens of war!
[Link: www.rathergood.com...]

256 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:12:57pm

re: #240 iceweasel

Traditionally the sunrise here has been celebrated by the ritual gang beating of a liberal. .

Youtube Video
257 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:13:49pm

re: #251 irish rose

Howdy.
I am well and thanks for asking... too busy with school and an impending move to do much posting anywhere right now. I have a rare evening free tonight so I thought I'd pop in.

Good luck with the move.
Happy to have you around!
Study hard & learn a lot!

258 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:13:51pm

Musical interlude : This once featured in the "Sounds" heavy metal chart - no idea why. A classic, nevertheless :

Youtube Video
259 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:14:37pm

re: #253 Aceofwhat?

so you're saying that your extended family isn't evil?

//

They could probably stand to drive something a little more tasteful than a Chevy Avalanche with 22" rims, but they're not evil :D

260 webevintage  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:14:46pm

re: #250 brookly red

or change the sheets in a hotel, or drive a cab, or wait tables, serve cocktails, sweep floors, park cars, etc, etc...

Or just don't like the President and make your living off of creating faux-outrage to keep the pages views up.

261 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:15:04pm

re: #243 WindUpBird

Not to put words in LVQ's mouth I think he probably means the organized hierarchical far socon Christian right, the Focus on the Family people, Pat Robertson's followers, and assorted similar bigoted groups. Not people who vote Republican or identify as right-wing who are Christians. Otherwise most of my extended family is evil, hah. :D

Obviously right wing Christians are not all evil. But Dobsonites? Evil. The new face of organized bigotry.

Thanks, WUB - we've made peace.

262 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:15:06pm

re: #212 Alouette

I was only pointing out the contradiction in your post. You said you didn't want to get into the details of defining good and evil, and then you got into the details of defining good and evil.

A "Beis Din shel Damin" was a court that executed twice in seventy years, not ten years.

I thought it was ten. I really think it was ten. Are you sure? I shall have too look that up. If I am wrong on that though it only make my point stronger.

As to the sideshow, I get what you were saying... I was trying to make somethings clear to avoid unnecessarily offending people like Reine. I think that was more important. I was also trying to stop a needles quibble about terms by pointing to common sense.

263 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:15:07pm

richard dawkins, being awesome again

[Link: richarddawkins.net...]

264 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:15:25pm

re: #254 Varek Raith

Don't you mean:

EchoEchoEcho

265 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:15:28pm

re: #240 iceweasel

Cheers! Agree with you.
Be advised that the morning thread is traditionally the Bitching Hour on LGF, basically from 4am to 7am PST. The trolls flounce on the overnights, and there's often squabbling because the Head Lizard is presumed to be sleeping.
Traditionally the sunrise here has been celebrated by the ritual gang beating of a liberal.
That's been changing, but I guess no one likes mornings. :)
FT posts some nice calming music usually too.

The beatings will continue until morale improves ;-P

266 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:15:40pm

all this talk about evil gives me a bad vibe...

267 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:15:50pm

re: #249 Olsonist

Jane's good hardworking people.

I really love her..But I sure gave her Shit when she did the black face thing.. I did shame her on her website....

268 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:15:51pm

re: #223 reine.de.tout

Freetoken - in my many years in HR, I often talked to people who wanted to go back to school and get this or that degree, and they always ended by saying, "But, it'll take 3 years and in 3 years I'll be X years old!".

You see, they've asked themselves the wrong question.
The question is not how old will I be when I finish, because in 3 years, you're going to be 3 years older no matter what you do.

The question is: What do you want to be doing with your life in 3 years?

If you think you want to do it, go for it.

Great advice.

269 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:16:21pm

re: #258 Jimmah

classic. playing now. question is, how badly does my wardrobe need sparkly pants with a shoulder belt? i'm thinking...pretty badly...

270 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:16:26pm

re: #260 webevintage

Or just don't like the President and make your living off of creating faux-outrage to keep the pages views up.

the people in Vagas are hurting... this isn't helping.

271 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:17:12pm

re: #270 brookly red

Gambling addiction is a serious problem :p

272 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:17:20pm

re: #264 Olsonist

Don't you mean:

Yes, my Html ain't what it used to be!
;)

273 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:17:28pm

re: #252 freetoken

McCain is running against a Tea Partier now... and after having lost to the Rove-machinate right wing in 2000, and having lost in 2008 because, he is told, he was not "conservative" enough, John McCain has finally realized what it will take to carry that (R) label after one's name.

And he has a wife and daughter who are very publicly supporting gay marriage. No wonder he's cranky.

274 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:17:34pm

re: #261 reine.de.tout

Thanks, WUB - we've made peace.

^_^

One of my good friends in the weird-art-crowd I run in is a very pro-choice, conservative Christian. So we just don't talk much politics, we mostly geek out about Warcraft, costumes, and how to draw a proper bunnygirl.

275 robdouth  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:17:35pm

I never understand what I'm supposed to take away from posts like this. There are idiots on the internet? I already knew that. If you disagree with them, they will hate you instead of arguing points? That's always the case to some degree.

I guess the thing I take from this, is I'm surprised at how little it is. Given there is all this hatred (palpable and demonstrable) through all of Charles posts regarding the subject of crazy nutjobs, I'm surprised it isn't like 100 per day. I would think the ping backs from other sites posting what Charles says to rally their followers to go hate on him would be much higher. I guess you can thank whoever, that it's only 5 a day. Given the frequency of the posts exposing right wing idiocy, i'd have expected it to be 10 times that.

Does anyone else find it hilarious that someone would email you to say you've had your time in the sun and are irrelevant now. Doesn't the act of sending the email negate your main thesis?

276 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:17:35pm

re: #268 LudwigVanQuixote

Great advice.

:-)

277 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:17:36pm

re: #256 Jeff In Ohio

[Video]

Heh. Classic. "I'm not dead yet!"
Liberal motto for the am here. :)
I'm glad you're still around; I'd missed you on the am threads, though you always get those great attackerman links in.

278 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:17:37pm

re: #270 brookly red

the people in Vagas are hurting... this isn't helping.

bah...it's just fauxHurt

279 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:17:53pm

re: #274 WindUpBird

that should read pro-life. Whuups.

280 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:18:00pm

re: #271 windsagio

Gambling addiction is a serious problem :p

so is the addiction to the tax revenue...

281 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:18:19pm

re: #271 windsagio

Gambling addiction is a serious problem :p

for who?

282 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:18:19pm

It's interesting to read the hate mail from the wingnut psychotics. I bet most of them think of themselves as adherents of liberty and freedom. You can read most of the time were they're constantly railing a perceived loss of freedom cause by liberal over and over again. Yet when push comes to shove these people represent some of the most intolerant small minded creatures on the face of the Earth.

On a side note. You ever notice how it sounds like Rush Limbaugh has a hollow head? It's strange but it like he has a set of vocal chords set inside an acoustic guitar in that barrel chest of his.

283 robdouth  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:18:33pm

re: #260 webevintage

Yeah but faux outrages are all the rage when you're party is out of power. This goes all the way back to Clinton, and probably further than that. The only difference this time, is that sometimes it involves race because he's not a white guy.

284 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:18:38pm

re: #273 Charles

And he has a wife and daughter who are very publicly supporting gay marriage. No wonder he's cranky.

Trouble in paradise!

285 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:19:30pm

re: #282 Gus 802

It's interesting to read the hate mail from the wingnut psychotics. I bet most of them think of themselves as adherents of liberty and freedom. You can read most of the time were they're constantly railing a perceived loss of freedom cause by liberal over and over again. Yet when push comes to shove these people represent some of the most intolerant small minded creatures on the face of the Earth.

On a side note. You ever notice how it sounds like Rush Limbaugh has a hollow head? It's strange but it like he has a set of vocal chords set inside an acoustic guitar in that barrel chest of his.

don't say those things about my acoustic guitar///

286 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:19:47pm

re: #273 Charles

And he has a wife and daughter who are very publicly supporting gay marriage. No wonder he's cranky.

time for old John to hang up his guns...he did okay, mostly...leave it at that

287 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:19:48pm

re: #250 brookly red

or change the sheets in a hotel, or drive a cab, or wait tables, serve cocktails, sweep floors, park cars, etc, etc...

So saying "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college" is bad advice when you want to help the housekeeping staff at the casino ?

Had he have said " I recommend all the kids take their college money to Vegas and hit the tables" would that be more acceptable ?

288 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:20:00pm

re: #270 brookly red

I hear what you're saying,but,noone is gonna cancel a trip to vegas over what he said.it was a simple metaphore,don't piss money away on frivolity,when you have more important things to save for.

289 freetoken  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:20:08pm

re: #223 reine.de.tout

Thanks for the encouragement. Thing is, I feel too old to have to be put through the motions of jumping through the hoops of academia again.

I guess I've come to conclusion that entertaining the lusts of my intellect for ever new fields of knowledge to plow ultimately didn't satisfy the soul. Oh, it used to be more satisfying. Now though I realize I'm much happier when I am around people and communicating with them.

290 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:20:14pm

re: #277 iceweasel

Heh. Classic. "I'm not dead yet!"
Liberal motto for the am here. :)
I'm glad you're still around; I'd missed you on the am threads, though you always get those great attackerman links in.

attackerman = defenseman?

They turned too?

291 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:20:17pm

It's certainly easy to do, and in fact may be a lot of fun (for somebody) if you do it. But if you paint people in black and white in order to make fun of them, you are missing out on the entire point of the technicolor world.

So I say.

These e-mail snippets are obtuse and highly insulting, but for all they tell you about the people that send them, there's another 99% that you will likely never know. In some cases, those persons may seem to be quite endearing to you, even for years or over the course of a lifetime.

And what's really funny is that you just never know, and often those people know that, if little more.

Beware of this world you live in. It's more complex - by far - than most believe it to be.

292 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:20:18pm

re: #280 brookly red

so is the addiction to the tax revenue...

when the municipal union workers in vagas start getting pink slipped then it will be a f'n catastrophe...

293 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:20:37pm

re: #281 albusteve

generally the people who have it. It has harm beyond that tho', go into a handy mart some time on welfare check day.

/depressing.

294 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:20:59pm

re: #287 avanti

they might win >>

295 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:21:09pm

re: #275 robdouth

don't confuse the rubes with facts

296 robdouth  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:21:19pm

re: #273 Charles

But don't you think that if McCain supported Gay marriage openly like his family and it led to his downfall that it would help hasten the collapse of the social conservatives power because then any Rino, or moderate republicans would be finally axed from the party and pissed off enough to at least not vote.

297 Altermite  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:21:25pm

New favorite phrase, used in the comments section of an article I just read:

That's Palin dumb.

298 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:21:39pm

re: #288 Boondock St. Bender

I hear what you're saying,but,noone is gonna cancel a trip to vegas over what he said.it was a simple metaphore,don't piss money away on frivolity,when you have more important things to save for.

which brings us back to the deficit...

299 webevintage  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:21:44pm

re: #292 brookly red

when the municipal union workers in vagas start getting pink slipped then it will be a f'n catastrophe...

Damn that Obama for not telling people to go risk their money in Vegas.
Bastard!
/

300 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:21:47pm

re: #294 windsagio

whoops, you're not blond - WindUpBird is. sorry. i misremembered.

301 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:21:57pm

re: #293 windsagio

generally the people who have it. It has harm beyond that tho', go into a handy mart some time on welfare check day.

/depressing.

I don't usually bother with other peoples business...I just mind my own

302 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:22:00pm

re: #292 brookly red

I get it I get it, you're Very Deeply Concerned over the plight of the Poor People of Las Vegas.

303 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:22:13pm

re: #250 brookly red

or change the sheets in a hotel, or drive a cab, or wait tables, serve cocktails, sweep floors, park cars, etc, etc...

You're just making a joke, right? ;-)

304 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:22:15pm

re: #266 albusteve

all this talk about evil gives me a bad vibe...

Try vaseline.

305 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:22:32pm

re: #300 Aceofwhat?

haha np :p

I'm dirty-blond, really so close enough :)

306 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:22:37pm

re: #299 webevintage

Damn that Obama for not telling people to go risk their money in Vegas.
Bastard!
/

WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE BOOKIES

THE POOR POOR BOOKIES

307 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:22:52pm

re: #302 windsagio

I get it I get it, you're Very Deeply Concerned over the plight of the Poor People of Las Vegas.

working people everywhere... I am a democrat.

308 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:22:54pm

re: #292 brookly red

when the municipal union workers in vagas start getting pink slipped then it will be a f'n catastrophe...

rooms at the Luxor for $8 bucks a night...no room service tho

309 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:23:02pm

re: #305 windsagio

haha np :p

I'm dirty-blond, really so close enough :)

as long as you still love me...

310 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:23:24pm

re: #306 WindUpBird

WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE BOOKIES

THE POOR POOR BOOKIES

I'll take 5/2 that we don't!

311 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:23:35pm

re: #290 talon_262

attackerman = defenseman?

They turned too?

[Link: attackerman.firedoglake.com...]

Steve Ackerman - punk rock and oreign policy blogging. Writes for Washington Independent also. "Now everyone stop being so fucking stupid."

312 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:23:35pm

re: #300 Aceofwhat?

whoops, you're not blond - WindUpBird is. sorry. i misremembered.


Sort of. it's actually pretty much brown now. :(

313 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:23:36pm

re: #307 brookly red

working people everywhere... I am a funny democrat.

ETFY

(enhanced that for you)

314 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:23:51pm

re: #298 brookly red

I agree i have always been against deficit spending (exept in cases of emergency.)

315 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:23:57pm

re: #309 Aceofwhat?

Youtube Video
316 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:24:06pm

re: #307 brookly red

working people everywhere... I am a democrat.

I would actually prefer the education system get my money!

317 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:24:16pm

re: #270 brookly red

the people in Vagas are hurting... this isn't helping.

You must be joking. What possible reason would you have to suggest a that statement was not a extreme example of common sense. I just don't see a bunch of kids deciding not to gamble away their tuition crippling Los Vagas from that statement.

318 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:24:36pm

Jeez, the hate mail you get is sad. It reads like the fan-boi nerd rage one can find on video game forums. Who besides a sexually frustrated, adolescent male virgin has the time to type such pathetic drivel?

319 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:24:55pm

re: #305 windsagio

haha np :p

I'm dirty-blond, really so close enough :)

I'm just a dirty white boy ;-P

Youtube Video
320 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:25:00pm

re: #312 WindUpBird

Sort of. it's actually pretty much brown now. :(

iirc, you identified yourself as such the other day. that's the only reason i would mention it.

(i'm dark brown, very curly, if it's any consolation)

321 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:25:03pm

re: #316 WindUpBird

I would actually prefer the education system get my money!

well there is sure plenty there if you play it right...a jackpot just waiting for you

322 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:25:09pm

re: #282 Gus 802

It's interesting to read the hate mail from the wingnut psychotics. I bet most of them think of themselves as adherents of liberty and freedom. You can read most of the time were they're constantly railing a perceived loss of freedom cause by liberal over and over again. Yet when push comes to shove these people represent some of the most intolerant small minded creatures on the face of the Earth.

On a side note. You ever notice how it sounds like Rush Limbaugh has a hollow head? It's strange but it like he has a set of vocal chords set inside an acoustic guitar in that barrel chest of his.

Mebst! You are revealing too many secrets of Remulak! The Rush experiment was to take an angry white man and replace half of his brain with a cabbage.

It was thought by the junior Zionist overlords that he would then provide amusement by picketing supermarket produce aisles shouting for his brothers to go free. Alas it did not work. The cabbage only removed his inhibitions.

However, much like agent Beck, he serves our purposes by bringing your species to it's knees such that when we reveal ourselves and our science saves you, you will love us all the more and not revolt when we take your hottest women to Remulak with us :)

No bagel for you!

323 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:25:11pm

re: #316 WindUpBird

I would actually prefer the education system get my money!

don't worry they will...

324 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:25:19pm

re: #293 windsagio

generally the people who have it. It has harm beyond that tho', go into a handy mart some time on welfare check day.

/depressing.

I always wonder how many people who go to Vegas check out the rest of the town. The bars where the locals go, the miles of pawn shops.
Not many, I think.

325 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:25:42pm

re: #315 windsagio

Ha! Although say what you want about her (i wouldn't know what to say, personally), she did have a set of pipes.

326 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:26:15pm

re: #324 iceweasel

When we went for EVO, we totally took a walk away from the strip. It was a weird, depressing experience.

327 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:26:25pm

re: #311 Jeff In Ohio

[Link: attackerman.firedoglake.com...]

Steve Ackerman - punk rock and oreign policy blogging. Writes for Washington Independent also. "Now everyone stop being so fucking stupid."

Ahhh...I see, said the blind man ;-P

Still thought there was something going on with defenseman a while back...it's why I asked.

328 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:26:27pm

re: #308 albusteve

rooms at the Luxor for $8 bucks a night...no room service tho

Wake me when I can rent a Gallardo for $8 a night :D

329 abolitionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:26:57pm

re: #229 freetoken

Making the techno-sphere rounds today:

[Video]Hehe... Jobs probably wouldn't even have to pay Patrick Stewart to do an iPad commercial...

I see f... four icons.
--Chain of Command Line reference. :)

330 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:27:13pm

re: #324 iceweasel

I always wonder how many people who go to Vegas check out the rest of the town. The bars where the locals go, the miles of pawn shops.
Not many, I think.

why would they do that?...Vegas is like WDW, they don't want you wandering around uptown

331 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:27:35pm

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

332 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:28:03pm

lets try this again:

Class reading:

333 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:28:07pm

re: #292 brookly red

when the municipal union workers in vagas start getting pink slipped then it will be a f'n catastrophe...

BTW, casino stocks are up, as are profit forecasts for 2010 and it's not coming from kids playing the 25 cent slots either. When I was in Vegas last month, there was not table available for under $50/hand and they were packed.

334 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:28:16pm

re: #282 Gus 802

It's interesting to read the hate mail from the wingnut psychotics. I bet most of them think of themselves as adherents of liberty and freedom. You can read most of the time were they're constantly railing a perceived loss of freedom cause by liberal over and over again. Yet when push comes to shove these people represent some of the most intolerant small minded creatures on the face of the Earth.

On a side note. You ever notice how it sounds like Rush Limbaugh has a hollow head? It's strange but it like he has a set of vocal chords set inside an acoustic guitar in that barrel chest of his.


I think Limbaugh's voice has changed over the years. He's suffered some partial deafness, so it could well be that his vocal timbre has changed too.

335 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:28:18pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

....forgive me, but...BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!11!!

336 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:28:19pm

re: #320 Aceofwhat?

iirc, you identified yourself as such the other day. that's the only reason i would mention it.

(i'm dark brown, very curly, if it's any consolation)

oh it's fine, I'm sure I mentioned it in the context of being 140 lbs soaking wet or something. :D The frowny is because my hair is that perfect completely unremarkable dull brown. I think i need to dye it magenta again like I did in college.

337 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:28:21pm

It's nice to get back to my Zionist overlord or Remulak self for a change.

338 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:28:31pm

re: #319 talon_262

but are you a lover boy?


Youtube Video
339 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:28:44pm

re: #336 WindUpBird

do that!

340 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:28:54pm

re: #327 talon_262

Ahhh...I see, said the blind man ;-P

Still thought there was something going on with defenseman a while back...it's why I asked.

Yeah. Blog password protected now. Something's up I guess.

341 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:29:01pm

re: #324 iceweasel

I always wonder how many people who go to Vegas check out the rest of the town. The bars where the locals go, the miles of pawn shops.
Not many, I think.

My favorite past time is going places and getting drunk with the locals. Really.

342 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:29:04pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

What a genius. Does he know what a hermaphrodite is? That doesn't even come under DADT. Such ignorance.

343 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:29:12pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

Because you know, that hermaphrodite in the shower is going to negatively impact my fighting ability!

344 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:29:35pm

re: #326 windsagio

When we went for EVO, we totally took a walk away from the strip. It was a weird, depressing experience.

Puerto Vallarta is like that...I could go on

345 webevintage  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:29:39pm

Nicky's methods of betting weren't scientific, but they worked. When he won, he collected. When he lost, he told the bookies to go fuck themselves. I mean, what were they going to do, muscle Nicky? Nicky was the muscle.

I love Casino.

Well folks, LOST has been taping for over an hour and I can safely go watch it and avoid those damn commercials, so have a good night and I'll check back when LOST is over.

346 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:29:44pm

Another reason to grow your own....
Is There Sh!t in Your Salad? 39% of Bagged Salads Have Too Much Fecal Bacteria

347 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:29:45pm

re: #333 avanti

BTW, casino stocks are up, as are profit forecasts for 2010 and it's not coming from kids playing the 25 cent slots either. When I was in Vegas last month, there was not table available for under $50/hand and they were packed.

you are an elitist & an enemy of the people.

348 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:30:00pm

re: #324 iceweasel

I always wonder how many people who go to Vegas check out the rest of the town. The bars where the locals go, the miles of pawn shops.
Not many, I think.

I have never been to Vegas...Reno, Tahoe..Ok Never Vegas...Dang it! Ice!

349 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:30:15pm

re: #324 iceweasel

I always wonder how many people who go to Vegas check out the rest of the town. The bars where the locals go, the miles of pawn shops.
Not many, I think.

I didn't do that, I wa sin the hotel room sleeping when Windsagio went to see the real Vegas. We did go to Circus Circus which seems to be where all the locals go now. I was looking for the Fear and Loathing experience, and wow, i got it. That place is nuts! It's like being inside of a pinball machine.

350 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:30:33pm

re: #343 LudwigVanQuixote

Because you know, that hermaphrodite in the shower is going to negatively impact my fighting ability!

If you give me Hermes and Aphrodite, I'm pretty sure we can kick some ass.

351 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:30:48pm

re: #331 darthstar

There are already many homosexuals serving proudly to protect this nation,and this hunter characters flabby ass.He owes them an apology.

352 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:30:53pm

re: #334 iceweasel

I think Limbaugh's voice has changed over the years. He's suffered some partial deafness, so it could well be that his vocal timbre has changed too.

It's odd but now he's got that f-hole voice. That is an f-hole arch top guitar. During his Oxycontin days all of the sudden his voice sounded more and more feminine. That is, he was very high pitched.

Might be like LVQ suggested. Half his brain was replaced with a cabbage.

353 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:31:02pm

re: #349 WindUpBird

Tobias and I went, I think you were hiding from the heat :p

354 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:31:06pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

Which door would one open to a hermaphrodite?

355 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:31:14pm

re: #333 avanti

BTW, casino stocks are up, as are profit forecasts for 2010 and it's not coming from kids playing the 25 cent slots either. When I was in Vegas last month, there was not table available for under $50/hand and they were packed.

recovery!...(for those that can afford Vegas that is)....Monte Carlo seems to be turning a round too...this is terrific news!

356 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:31:17pm

re: #330 albusteve

why would they do that?...Vegas is like WDW, they don't want you wandering around uptown

When they fly me out, I do the tourist thing and spend very little time at the tables. The bad news is they now report my free comps as income.

357 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:31:45pm

re: #346 Killgore Trout

Another reason to grow your own...
Is There Sh!t in Your Salad? 39% of Bagged Salads Have Too Much Fecal Bacteria

you are supposed to wash what you eat KT :)

358 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:31:51pm

re: #347 brookly red

you are an elitist & an enemy of the people.

hahaha!....poodle at least

359 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:32:12pm

re: #287 avanti

So saying "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college" is bad advice when you want to help the housekeeping staff at the casino ?

Had he have said " I recommend all the kids take their college money to Vegas and hit the tables" would that be more acceptable ?

Well back in the day, kids would earn college money by waiting tables and housekeeping at resorts, but today that's all "work Americans won't do."

Also, isn't blowing a bunch of cash in a tribal casino a windfall for the indigenous?

360 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:32:19pm

re: #351 Boondock St. Bender

The interviewer actually said that to him...that there are already homosexuals serving in the military. Duncan Hunter is just a card-carrying idiot.

361 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:32:23pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

I heard that interview. It was embarrassing for the humans. All that sexual tension in tehshower!!! MY GOD, UNRESTRAINED BONER ACTION WILL UPSET UNIT COHESION!!!!

362 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:32:40pm

re: #346 Killgore Trout

Another reason to grow your own...
Is There Sh!t in Your Salad? 39% of Bagged Salads Have Too Much Fecal Bacteria

I'm putting that up in the cookbook blog.

I never buy that stuff. I bought some once and it tasted obviously wrong, even after I washed it myself. Ick.

363 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:32:52pm

re: #341 Jeff In Ohio

My favorite past time is going places and getting drunk with the locals. Really.

Always did that in the Navy. I'd go to a local stand bars and toss beers with the Japanese.

364 simoom  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:32:54pm

Another religious leader following in Pat Robertson's footsteps. The Rabbi Yehuda Levin, spokesman for the Rabbinical Alliance of America, issued a statement in opposition to the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". In the process he manages to blame 9/11, the Indian Ocean tsunami, Katrina and the Hati earthquake on "the practice of homosexuality."

Thirteen months before 9/11, on the day New York City passed homosexual domestic partnership regulations, I joined a group of Rabbis at a City Hall prayer service, pleading with G-d not to visit disaster on the city of N.Y. We have seen the underground earthquake, tsunami, Katrina, and now Haiti. All this is in sync with a two thousand year old teaching in the Talmud that the practice of homosexuality is a spiritual cause of earthquakes. Once a disaster is unleashed, innocents are also victims just like in Chernobyl.

We plead with saner heads in Congress and the Pentagon to stop sodomization of our military and our society. Enough is enough.

I decided not to included it but the full YouTube video statement can be found in the RightWingWatch post:
[Link: www.rightwingwatch.org...]

Related articles:
[Link: www.vosizneias.com...]
[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

365 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:00pm

re: #352 Gus 802

It's odd but now he's got that f-hole voice. That is an f-hole arch top guitar. During his Oxycontin days all of the sudden his voice sounded more and more feminine. That is, he was very high pitched.

Might be like LVQ suggested. Half his brain was replaced with a cabbage.

Was that the half that was tied behind his back, or the other half?

366 freetoken  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:06pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...

Sigh... my Representative. I keep putting off the idea of going down to his office and telling him to come back off the limb on which he is perched. I'm not sure it would be worth the visit though, as he knows his constituency well.

367 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:13pm

re: #282 Gus 802

On a side note. You ever notice how it sounds like Rush Limbaugh has a hollow head? It's strange but it like he has a set of vocal chords set inside an acoustic guitar in that barrel chest of his.

Beneath that organic exterior, he's just all wires and diodes, driven by a neural wingnet interface. That's why those in the know call him the Limbot.

368 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:18pm

re: #356 avanti

When they fly me out, I do the tourist thing and spend very little time at the tables. The bad news is they now report my free comps as income.

you are an elitist & an enemy of the people.

369 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:21pm

re: #356 avanti

When they fly me out, I do the tourist thing and spend very little time at the tables. The bad news is they now report my free comps as income.

guess what?...nobody gives a damn about your life style...I don't even consider it interesting...I've had so much money I had to burn it to get rid of it...so what?

370 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:25pm

re: #346 Killgore Trout

Another reason to grow your own...
Is There Sh!t in Your Salad? 39% of Bagged Salads Have Too Much Fecal Bacteria

There's a regulatory gap:

...currently, while there are federal limits on the amount of "indicator" bacteria that can be legally found in water, milk, raw meats, and processed foods, there's no such standard for produce.
371 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:33pm

re: #360 darthstar

he made that abundantly clear. lol

372 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:42pm

re: #326 windsagio

When we went for EVO, we totally took a walk away from the strip. It was a weird, depressing experience.

Yeah, the last time I went I specifically wanted to see more of what it was like to live there, behind all the glitz. It's extremely fucked up.

I knew someone who killed herself over a gambling addiction. I didn't know her well, but she secretly depleted the bank accounts, I heard, and her daughter's college fund, and then killed herself, I guess when her husband was about to find out.

Suburban housewife, happily married, law degree, great house, on the outside she looked like she had a total Martha Stewart life, but the gambling addiction did her in.

373 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:44pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

Duncan Hunter has long, long, magical evenings at home alone where he thinks very hard about shower-dwelling hermaphrodites. With cat ears. He has examined this issue from EVERY ANGLE. He is an EXPERT.

374 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:48pm

re: #354 Spare O'Lake

Which door would one open to a hermaphrodite?

My guess is that Duncan Hunter thinks people are hermaphrodites by choice...either that or he has some interesting porn on his computer.

375 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:57pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

Sheesh. Personally, i'd rather shower next to a homosexual. It's creepier standing next to a guy who is uncomfortable being or being around naked than a guy who might think i'm attractive. There's nothing wrong with thinking that i'm attractive...

376 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:33:59pm

re: #359 Alouette

Well back in the day, kids would earn college money by waiting tables and housekeeping at resorts, but today that's all "work Americans won't do."

Also, isn't blowing a bunch of cash in a tribal casino a windfall for the indigenous?

Never go to the Indian casino's, they are unregulated and bigger money pits.

377 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:34:08pm

re: #367 Jimmah

Beneath that organic exterior, he's just all wires and diodes, driven by a neural wingnet interface. That's why those in the know call him the Limbot.

Servos, pushrods, bellcranks...

378 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:34:10pm

re: #364 simoom

Another religious leader following in Pat Robertson's footsteps. The Rabbi Yehuda Levin, spokesman for the Rabbinical Alliance of America, issued a statement in opposition to the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". In the process he manages to blame 9/11, the Indian Ocean tsunami, Katrina and the Hati earthquake on "the practice of homosexuality."

I decided not to included it but the full YouTube video statement can be found in the RightWingWatch post:
[Link: www.rightwingwatch.org...]

Related articles:
[Link: www.vosizneias.com...]
[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

Forgive my bluntness, but do tools like this one a Robertson realize just how much of a dick they make God out to be?

379 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:34:13pm

re: #353 windsagio

Tobias and I went, I think you were hiding from the heat :p

I shit sure was! 118 degrees? The hell I'm going out there!

380 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:34:34pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

Hilarious :)

381 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:34:46pm

re: #364 simoom

Another religious leader following in Pat Robertson's footsteps. The Rabbi Yehuda Levin, spokesman for the Rabbinical Alliance of America, issued a statement in opposition to the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". In the process he manages to blame 9/11, the Indian Ocean tsunami, Katrina and the Hati earthquake on "the practice of homosexuality."

I decided not to included it but the full YouTube video statement can be found in the RightWingWatch post:
[Link: www.rightwingwatch.org...]

Related articles:
[Link: www.vosizneias.com...]
[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

So is he channeling Rav Ovadiah Yosef, or Pat Robertson?

382 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:34:54pm

re: #374 darthstar

My guess is that Duncan Hunter thinks people are hermaphrodites by choice...either that or he has some interesting porn on his computer.

I know a few of those. But they just play hermaphrodites on the internet :D

383 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:34:58pm

re: #362 reine.de.tout

I'm putting that up in the cookbook blog.

I never buy that stuff. I bought some once and it tasted obviously wrong, even after I washed it myself. Ick.

It'll also stay "fresh" for a week or more. Something really wrong with that. I'm not sure what they treat it with to make it last that long.

384 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:35:24pm

re: #324 iceweasel

I always wonder how many people who go to Vegas check out the rest of the town. The bars where the locals go, the miles of pawn shops.
Not many, I think.

I go for the cheap food, free drinks, and titty shows. What little gambling I do while there is done to fill up the time between free drinks.

385 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:35:34pm

re: #382 WindUpBird

those people usually piss me off :p

386 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:35:36pm

re: #340 iceweasel

Yeah. Blog password protected now. Something's up I guess.

C&C server for the stalkers, maybe? If that's true, maybe they finally got wise (unfortunately) about telegraphing their punches out in the open over on the Deuce...

/I hope it's not true...I kinda liked defenseman

387 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:36:08pm

re: #349 WindUpBird

I didn't do that, I wa sin the hotel room sleeping when Windsagio went to see the real Vegas. We did go to Circus Circus which seems to be where all the locals go now. I was looking for the Fear and Loathing experience, and wow, i got it. That place is nuts! It's like being inside of a pinball machine.

Oh yeah, me too! I had a Fear and Loathing experience too with my friend-- wow. I made him reread it before we went, actually.
Lot of ugly there though.

388 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:36:43pm

re: #382 WindUpBird

according to ron jeremy there is no such thing as a real hermaphrodite...i guess HE would be the one to know....

389 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:37:05pm

re: #356 avanti

When they fly me out, I do the tourist thing and spend very little time at the tables. The bad news is they now report my free comps as income.

Those I know who get comped to Vegas are problem gamblers who lose lots of money. Then they brag about getting comped.
Kind of sad.

390 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:37:06pm

re: #372 iceweasel


A manager at my health care gig was arrested because it turned out he was embezzling client funds, SS money and such, and gambling it.

I think I'd rather be addicted to heroin o_o

391 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:37:42pm

re: #369 albusteve

guess what?...nobody gives a damn about your life style...I don't even consider it interesting...I've had so much money I had to burn it to get rid of it...so what?

What makes you think I have money to burn ? I'm retired, get SS and Navy retirement, sell a few Studebakers on ebay, and gamble for recreation. I'm happy you had money to burn, never had that privilege.

392 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:38:40pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

It'll also stay "fresh" for a week or more. Something really wrong with that. I'm not sure what they treat it with to make it last that long.

I think it's a dilute chlorine wash.

393 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:39:09pm

re: #83 reine.de.tout

I'm a Christian; I'm on the right; and you are wrong on many points, but I am calling you on this one.

Your conclusion is presented as fact and that is wrong.
And you are wrong on this point
There is nothing, not one thing you can say ever, that will convince me I'm evil.

I think it's possible to be Christian and be "on the right" without being part of "The Christian Right".....

394 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:39:14pm

re: #372 iceweasel

Yeah, the last time I went I specifically wanted to see more of what it was like to live there, behind all the glitz. It's extremely fucked up.

I knew someone who killed herself over a gambling addiction. I didn't know her well, but she secretly depleted the bank accounts, I heard, and her daughter's college fund, and then killed herself, I guess when her husband was about to find out.

Suburban housewife, happily married, law degree, great house, on the outside she looked like she had a total Martha Stewart life, but the gambling addiction did her in.

Oh God Ice...I'm so sorry for her...I don't gamble..OK I'll do 5 cent machines all night at Tahoe..But secretly I hate it....I never got the gambling thing...I like the music and stuff..But I can't win and never I was that stupid that thought I could../Free booze while you gamble..Haha..Who is really going to win this thing?

395 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:39:32pm

re: #369 albusteve

guess what?...nobody gives a damn about your life style...I don't even consider it interesting...I've had so much money I had to burn it to get rid of it...so what?

Damn, Steve - don't burn that money!
Send it to me

396 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:39:38pm

re: #391 avanti

What makes you think I have money to burn ? I'm retired, get SS and Navy retirement, sell a few Studebakers on ebay, and gamble for recreation. I'm happy you had money to burn, never had that privilege.

Annapolis?

397 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:39:47pm

re: #372 iceweasel

Yeah, the last time I went I specifically wanted to see more of what it was like to live there, behind all the glitz. It's extremely fucked up.

I knew someone who killed herself over a gambling addiction. I didn't know her well, but she secretly depleted the bank accounts, I heard, and her daughter's college fund, and then killed herself, I guess when her husband was about to find out.

Suburban housewife, happily married, law degree, great house, on the outside she looked like she had a total Martha Stewart life, but the gambling addiction did her in.

on the other hand for every Vegas (or elsewhere) addict, there are probably tens of millions of gamblers who are not addicted...they gamble, lose their limit, and go back home to Petoski...no big deal

398 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:40:05pm

re: #341 Jeff In Ohio

My favorite past time is going places and getting drunk with the locals. Really.

Hey, me too! Really! Jimmah also.
Really one of the best ways to get a feel for what a place is like, outside of the usual tourist places.
Spent some time in a couple of local bars in Istanbul like that, off the path where tourists go. No one spoke english but damn they were friendly! It was pretty great.

399 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:40:34pm

re: #393 jamesfirecat

I think it's possible to be Christian and be "on the right" without being part of "The Christian Right"...

Yes It's over and done, LVQ and I have kissed and made up, well, we've made up.

400 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:40:43pm

burning money???this will never do...too much of a carbon footprint...just send it to me,i'll dispose of it in a neat carbon neutral fashion...and then send the credits to you!everybody wins....especially mother geai..er gaia..er whatever....

401 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:40:59pm

re: #392 jaunte

I think it's a dilute chlorine wash.

Sounds delicious!

402 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:40:59pm

re: #389 Spare O'Lake

Those I know who get comped to Vegas are problem gamblers who lose lots of money. Then they brag about getting comped.
Kind of sad.

Now you're talking about my mother. She gave all of us nice golf jackets with a casino logo on them...said she "got them for free with her points"...I asked how many "points" it took to get a jacket...5000. But she'll sit at the $5 slots for four hours at a stretch, and at about six pulls per minute, that comes to 1800 bucks an hour going through the machine, 3600 if she plays two credits at a time (granted, she's playing off credits for much of that, but still, it does add up).

403 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:41:35pm

re: #364 simoom

Another religious leader following in Pat Robertson's footsteps. The Rabbi Yehuda Levin, spokesman for the Rabbinical Alliance of America, issued a statement in opposition to the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". In the process he manages to blame 9/11, the Indian Ocean tsunami, Katrina and the Hati earthquake on "the practice of homosexuality."

I decided not to included it but the full YouTube video statement can be found in the RightWingWatch post:
[Link: www.rightwingwatch.org...]

Related articles:
[Link: www.vosizneias.com...]
[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

Alas we have our morons too.

Right after Kristalnacht, there were ohhh so pious Jews who wrote about that being G-ds judgement on the unobservant Jews of Germany. Most of the Jews who wrote such things were later murdered by the Nazis themselves.

404 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:41:43pm

re: #400 Boondock St. Bender

burning money???this will never do...too much of a carbon footprint...just send it to me,i'll dispose of it in a neat carbon neutral fashion...and then send the credits to you!everybody wins...especially mother geai..er gaia..er whatever...

I claimed it first - neener neener.

405 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:42:03pm

re: #394 HoosierHoops

Oh God Ice...I'm so sorry for her...I don't gamble..OK I'll do 5 cent machines all night at Tahoe..But secretly I hate it...I never got the gambling thing...I like the music and stuff..But I can't win and never I was that stupid that thought I could../Free booze while you gamble..Haha..Who is really going to win this thing?

Exactly! I told Jimmah about the free booze and he couldn't believe it.
I'm like you, I can spend hours on a nickel machine or something but when the money I set aside for it is gone, I leave too. Just never got into it in the bad way, which I'm grateful for.
You and Jimmah and me and Winston will have to do a trip. :-)

406 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:42:19pm

re: #384 Slumbering Behemoth

I go for the cheap food, free drinks, and titty shows. What little gambling I do while there is done to fill up the time between free drinks.

Smart guy. If you limit your gambling to Blackjack, or other decent odds games, you can have a cheap vacation. My friend plays the penny slots and drinks imported beer all night, might win or lose $20.00.

407 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:42:28pm

re: #393 jamesfirecat

I think it's possible to be Christian and be "on the right" without being part of "The Christian Right"...


The wording is tricky, because liberals say Christian Right, adn we know what they mean. But it's not a great term, it's not specific term. It's why I like "Dobsonite" Because the only people who would take issue with that are going to have to defend Focus on the Family to me. A battle I like to have. :D

408 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:42:43pm

re: #378 Varek Raith

Forgive my bluntness, but do tools like this one a Robertson realize just how much of a dick they make God out to be?

NO they do not. It's a problem. For all of my bashing of the Christian Right, I assure you it hurts me in my soul to hear rabbis sounding like that.

409 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:43:20pm

re: #391 avanti

What makes you think I have money to burn ? I'm retired, get SS and Navy retirement, sell a few Studebakers on ebay, and gamble for recreation. I'm happy you had money to burn, never had that privilege.

I didn't say you did...I said I did...life for the average American tax payer does not revolve around the stock market or how well Vegas is doing...come visit NM and you will see typical folks really worried about their lives because they don't have a goddamned job...like me they don't really care about much else

410 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:44:11pm

re: #386 talon_262

C&C server for the stalkers, maybe? If that's true, maybe they finally got wise (unfortunately) about telegraphing their punches out in the open over on the Deuce...

/I hope it's not true...I kinda liked defenseman

No idea. It could be anything really, maybe the author has personal life keeping him away from blogging, anything. I don't know anything apart from the blog being closed at the moment.

411 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:44:48pm

re: #396 Jeff In Ohio

Annapolis?

Yep, that's where I retired, love the area. Lots of retired Navy, and I stay in touch sponsoring mids. It's like having a dozen great kids.

412 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:45:43pm

hullo all...did I miss anything?

413 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:45:59pm

re: #395 reine.de.tout

Damn, Steve - don't burn that money!
Send it to me

I actually have pictures around here somewhere...we did burn money just to take pictures of it....maybe a few hundred dollars...small change at the time...we were living large back then, but that was a long time ago chica...just memories

414 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:46:03pm

I don't have much to bring to the heavy metal table, but I have this - from the album "Reek of Putrefaction", here's Carcass, with"Fermenting Innards" :

Youtube Video
415 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:46:08pm

re: #406 avanti

My friend plays the penny slots and drinks imported beer all night, might win or lose $20.00.

That's my MO exactly. The casinos pay me (in drinks) to hang out. I tip the waitresses well, and walk out with more of their booze in me than there is my money in their machines.

416 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:46:15pm

re: #412 PT Barnum

hullo all...did I miss anything?

Nothing in particular, but everything in general.

417 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:46:31pm

re: #412 PT Barnum

hullo all...did I miss anything?

i've been fantastic

418 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:46:36pm

re: #398 iceweasel

Hey, me too! Really! Jimmah also.
Really one of the best ways to get a feel for what a place is like, outside of the usual tourist places.
Spent some time in a couple of local bars in Istanbul like that, off the path where tourists go. No one spoke english but damn they were friendly! It was pretty great.

The beauty of F-1 racing in Indy the last couple of years was having the world come here...Tens of thousands of fans from the world carrying their flags and cheering for their country every year was very special..
I have been blessed these last few years in Indy...Great fans come here...

419 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:46:37pm

I was just a kid and had just started my new job as a store manager for a regional chain when I got a call from the President of the Co. Shadow, he says, there will be a guy name Buck come in on Monday. Hire him. Uh, Ok.

A very nice late 50 something man comes in on Monday and I put him to work for about minimum wage and began training him on the important stuff, like stocking shelves and such.

Turns out Buck had until recently owned a chain of hardware stores called, oddly enough, Buck's Hardware. He had built it up over a lifetime and very successfully....only to lose every bit of in a single Las Vegas weekend.

Damn sad.

420 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:46:40pm

re: #415 Slumbering Behemoth

That's my MO exactly. The casinos pay me (in drinks) to hang out. I tip the waitresses well, and walk out with more of their booze in me than there is my money in their machines.

Same here. Can be a fun trip!

421 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:47:18pm

re: #414 Jimmah

I don't have much to bring to the heavy metal table, but I have this - from the album "Reek of Putrefaction", here's Carcass, with"Fermenting Innards" :


[Video]

dude, it's only downhill from sparkly pants and creative suspenders. not hatin'...just sayin'...

422 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:47:35pm

re: #406 avanti

Smart guy. If you limit your gambling to Blackjack, or other decent odds games, you can have a cheap vacation. My friend plays the penny slots and drinks imported beer all night, might win or lose $20.00.

Penny slots...play up to 40 lines and up to 5 credits per line. Guess what? That's a $2 machine now.

423 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:47:56pm

re: #352 Gus 802

It's odd but now he's got that f-hole voice. That is an f-hole arch top guitar. During his Oxycontin days all of the sudden his voice sounded more and more feminine. That is, he was very high pitched.

Might be like LVQ suggested. Half his brain was replaced with a cabbage.

After the cabbage rotted, the resulting hollow cavity made the sound.

424 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:47:59pm

re: #414 Jimmah

Speaking of that, Hawkwind's "Masters of the Universe" finally came out on Rock Band. Not a hard song, but one that for some reason makes your strumming hand freakin' hurt!

425 Unakite  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:48:08pm

re: #20 Dragon_Lady

What I don't understand is why people waste their time with this kind of hateful drivel. I have posting to LGF for almost a month and I have yet to see anything even close to what these delusional minds say your posting and thinking. I guess I just don't want to believe that those kinds of people are out there. I guess it's time to stop fooling myself, they are out there and they're the lowest kind of pond scum and not worth worrying over. I'll just drive myself crazy over it. Just keep up the good work Charles, eventually they'll get tired of the vitriolic hyperbole and disappear.

Hee, I didn't realize we have the same birthday!

426 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:48:37pm

re: #419 The Shadow Do

I was just a kid and had just started my new job as a store manager for a regional chain when I got a call from the President of the Co. Shadow, he says, there will be a guy name Buck come in on Monday. Hire him. Uh, Ok.

A very nice late 50 something man comes in on Monday and I put him to work for about minimum wage and began training him on the important stuff, like stocking shelves and such.

Turns out Buck had until recently owned a chain of hardware stores called, oddly enough, Buck's Hardware. He had built it up over a lifetime and very successfully...only to lose every bit of in a single Las Vegas weekend.

Damn sad.

the Buck stopped there...indeed

427 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:50:17pm

re: #422 darthstar

Penny slots...play up to 40 lines and up to 5 credits per line. Guess what? That's a $2 machine now.

Yeah. And it freaks me out and depresses me when I see that, and someone alone just feeding the money in. They don't even look happy when they finally win-- I guess they're still playing catchup.

428 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:50:59pm

re: #408 LudwigVanQuixote

NO they do not. It's a problem. For all of my bashing of the Christian Right, I assure you it hurts me in my soul to hear rabbis sounding like that.

It's very embarrassing to know that we have dickheads too. I'm sure there are Buddhist dickheads and Hindu dickheads. We won't mention the Muslim dickheads.

429 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:51:00pm

re: #407 WindUpBird

The wording is tricky, because liberals say Christian Right, adn we know what they mean. But it's not a great term, it's not specific term. It's why I like "Dobsonite" Because the only people who would take issue with that are going to have to defend Focus on the Family to me. A battle I like to have. :D

Not all Liberals do. Nuance is appreciated by many of us. There are hard-core Christian groups here in town who are doing yeoman work for the poor and homeless. Bless them. I think the proper term for the gaspers should be "Political Christian Right".

It's when you get away from "Render unto Caeser..." that the wheels come off the wagon.

430 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:51:33pm

Full disclosure: I love to gamble. I like playing poker most (playing against other people versus the house), but I also enjoy craps, roulette, black jack, etc. That said, I don't allow myself to do it too often, as I tend to play until my money's gone.

431 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:52:06pm

re: #409 albusteve

I didn't say you did...I said I did...life for the average American tax payer does not revolve around the stock market or how well Vegas is doing...come visit NM and you will see typical folks really worried about their lives because they don't have a goddamned job...like me they don't really care about much else

I get that, but I was commenting on the Vegas part of the tread. I didn't see the casino's being hurt by Obama's comment about college kids.
re: #415 Slumbering Behemoth

That's my MO exactly. The casinos pay me (in drinks) to hang out. I tip the waitresses well, and walk out with more of their booze in me than there is my money in their machines.

Casino cocktail waitresses make mad money.

432 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:52:08pm

re: #429 austin_blue

I prefer SoCons..or Authoritarian Right, as it really adds in all that is really wrong with those people.

433 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:52:22pm

re: #411 avanti

Yep, that's where I retired, love the area. Lots of retired Navy, and I stay in touch sponsoring mids. It's like having a dozen great kids.

My cousin Hank is about your age, Annapolis grad - 1966-67 I think.

434 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:52:31pm

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

The people who wrote those emails are retarded.

HOW DARE YOU!!111

- Sarah Palin

435 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:52:31pm

re: #430 darthstar

Full disclosure: I love to gamble. I like playing poker most (playing against other people versus the house), but I also enjoy craps, roulette, black jack, etc. That said, I don't allow myself to do it too often, as I tend to play until my money's gone.

i love poker with chips. i hate it with money. always been that way...

436 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:52:54pm

re: #427 iceweasel

Yeah. And it freaks me out and depresses me when I see that, and someone alone just feeding the money in. They don't even look happy when they finally win-- I guess they're still playing catchup.

I used to work at an office that was across the street from a casino, and during the winter I would walk through the casino lobby to and from the parking structure.

It also freaked me out to see people sitting at the slots when I came in to work at 7:00 AM, especially since I realized the poor fools had probably been sitting there all night long.

437 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:52:57pm

re: #432 PT Barnum

I prefer SoCons..or Authoritarian Right, as it really adds in all that is really wrong with those people.

TheoCon is even better, because they are theocrats.

438 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:53:21pm

re: #427 iceweasel

I went to Ft. Lauderdale for a convention. Our "junket" was a gambling ship that took us out beyond the limit to gamble. Everybody got a 10.00 roll of quarters...

When we got back, people were comparing notes (most lost a few hundred bucks) they looked to me and said, "How'd you do?"

I held it up and said, "I won a 10.00 roll of quarters!"

439 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:53:48pm

Evening lizards!

I am a Christian, I am a right-winger, and I am not evil.

440 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:54:16pm

re: #427 iceweasel

Yeah. And it freaks me out and depresses me when I see that, and someone alone just feeding the money in. They don't even look happy when they finally win-- I guess they're still playing catchup.

You go to a bar and start drinking too much and eventually they kick you out. In a casino, they let you throw away all of your money regardless of the damage it may cause that person. I know it's popular with many people around the world but I never saw the appeal. I went to Atlantic City during the early days of gambling and the place was full of mafia wannabe floor bosses that made my skin curl. Plus, it's usually a tacky environment.

441 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:54:23pm

re: #435 Aceofwhat?

Learned to gamble in the scouts, we never did real money, always chips. Its the thrill without the 'uh oh, how do I pay for gas?'

442 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:54:32pm

re: #436 Alouette

I used to work at an office that was across the street from a casino, and during the winter I would walk through the casino lobby to and from the parking structure.

It also freaked me out to see people sitting at the slots when I came in to work at 7:00 AM, especially since I realized the poor fools had probably been sitting there all night long.

yes. I pointed out to my friend that the reason for the lack of windows and the whole rat-maze structure is specifically to help people lose track of time.
The constant free booze helps too, I'm sure.

443 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:54:33pm

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards!

I am a Christian, I am a right-winger, and I am not evil.

I'm with him...

444 jaunte  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:54:33pm

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

But what's the D in your nickname stand for?

445 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:54:37pm

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

Are you a theocon? >>

446 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:54:38pm

re: #427 iceweasel

Yeah. And it freaks me out and depresses me when I see that, and someone alone just feeding the money in. They don't even look happy when they finally win-- I guess they're still playing catchup.

This is a fun experiment...when you walk into a casino, count the number of people you see smiling while they gamble. Aside from the person who just won a couple of thousand on a lucky pull of the handle, most people are pretty much focused on the next bet and hoping for a big win. I enjoy gambling myself, but I know that I, too, don't smile when I'm doing it for the most part. I'm usually focused on how to make the most money in the least amount of time--before I go broke.

Oh, and the best way I can go broke? Ordering a drink. I often find that I can lose my entire stack in the time it takes for my drink to get back to me...unless I'm "on a roll"...ha!

447 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:54:42pm

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

Do you want to subject everyone else to the dictums of your personal faith? If not, then you are truly not evil.

448 oldegeezr  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:54:45pm

Keep the faith Charles…!

I attempted to labor mightily over at AOS.
I persevered, I endured all their despicable, obscene “slings and arrows” for months…

Finally Azzhat, him ownself became so frustrated he blocked my IP address… cowardly moron…!

See yah on the other side...AZZ!

We luv yah Charles…
Keep up yer great work…!

449 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:55:01pm

re: #444 jaunte

But what's the D in your nickname stand for?

Heh.

450 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:55:11pm

re: #441 windsagio

Learned to gamble in the scouts, we never did real money, always chips. Its the thrill without the 'uh oh, how do I pay for gas?'

well said

451 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:55:53pm

re: #444 jaunte

But what's the D in your nickname stand for?

Stan.

452 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:56:13pm

re: #435 Aceofwhat?

i love poker with chips. i hate it with money. always been that way...

I'm a good, no great!, poker player for about two hours. I read people quickly, bluff well, and change my game enough to be quite effective. Unfortunately, I'm also easily read, so after about two hours anyone who's worth their weight in salt at the table has me read and after that I'm dead in the water.

453 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:56:18pm

re: #431 avanti

and btw...I forgot to say that there are hidden jewels all over the Eastern seaboard and inland in those parts, but for a famous place, Annapolis is a very cool little town...a real pleasure for a mid-westerner to visit...very old and well kept and colorful...just a fine town

454 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:56:19pm

re: #405 iceweasel

Exactly! I told Jimmah about the free booze and he couldn't believe it.
I'm like you, I can spend hours on a nickel machine or something but when the money I set aside for it is gone, I leave too. Just never got into it in the bad way, which I'm grateful for.
You and Jimmah and me and Winston will have to do a trip. :-)

One time...One time me and Mrs.Hoopster went to one of those seminairs for a couple hours trying to sell you a condo..And if you could make it to the end of the sales pitch you got to spend a free weekend at the Condo In Tahoe..
We went to this thing so going to buy a Condo in Tahoe/ Not.. I guess the giggling didn't give us away..
That weekend we just couldn't lose..It was wierd.. Go to dinner and win 700 bucks from Keno.. Breakfast? No problem ..250 bucks on a quarter spin..It was stupid fun...I swear..There was this big round kitchen table at the wicked bad condo that we just might buy..Right..Covered in Coins..Just stacked out and we were just laughing about it..The only time in my life I got lucky gambling...

455 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:56:27pm

re: #443 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm with him...

Ditto.

456 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:56:37pm

re: #236 Killgore Trout
Uhhh I saw/see your posts. I saw a Killgore Trout Stinks

WTF?!

457 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:56:51pm

re: #449 NJDhockeyfan

Heh.

The D is for Darlins. The New Jersey Darlins.

458 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:56:53pm

re: #440 Gus 802

You go to a bar and start drinking too much and eventually they kick you out. In a casino, they let you throw away all of your money regardless of the damage it may cause that person. I know it's popular with many people around the world but I never saw the appeal. I went to Atlantic City during the early days of gambling and the place was full of mafia wannabe floor bosses that made my skin curl. Plus, it's usually a tacky environment.

Oh god, AC is the worst. The pits. Used to be a really corrupt town in many ways (don't know if it still is). Friend of mine was working for the Dems there in the 80's and had some horrendous stories. There was some huge scandal involving the mayor at one point I think?

459 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:56:53pm

re: #451 Alouette

Stan

Youtube Video
460 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:57:16pm

re: #421 Aceofwhat?

dude, it's only downhill from sparkly pants and creative suspenders. not hatin'...just sayin'...

Comfortably Numb gets the sparkly pants and creative suspenders treatment (sort of) :

Youtube Video
461 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:57:28pm

re: #457 darthstar

The D is for Darlins. The New Jersey Darlins.

I thought it was for Ducks. New Jersey Ducks. Greatest hockey team ever.

//

462 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:57:30pm

A little story about the pious that I have told here before, but it was a powerful lesson for me.

The last time I was in Israel, I saw a graduation ceremony for the IDF at night at the Kotel.

The young soldiers were glorious in their uniforms arrayed in neat ranks. They had formed a square. For those who do not know, the Kotel is the plaza of the Wailing Wall.

Martial music was played and flaming braziers were lit. The officers were on one side of the square conducting the ceremony and the non coms formed the sides of the square. This was in the plaza just outside of the prayer area.

The families of the young soldiers were behind them. My heart was overflowing with pride for them all.

As the ceremony progressed, three fat, wheezing black and white wearing Jews, in a fit of displaying how holy they were, pushed their way through the ranks of the soldiers, walked brazenly across the square, and then pushed through the officers on there way to wash their hands and pray.

They have the ability to pray there because of the sacrifices of those they just disrespected. I was appalled. I was appalled not just for the disrespect, but for the stain this put on the name of G-d and those of us who are observant everywhere.

I was so furious I had to leave. My rabbi told me something very important. He said, reflecting on it, that it is the sins of those who profess righteousness that turn the most people away from G-d.

When I go and say I believe in G-d, I am always confronted with the sins and hypocrisy of the so called righteous. It is a difficult argument to counter. Who wants to hear that you can not blame the religion or G-d for the defective people who claim to represent?

This applies to all faiths.

463 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:57:36pm

re: #430 darthstar

Full disclosure: I love to gamble. I like playing poker most (playing against other people versus the house), but I also enjoy craps, roulette, black jack, etc. That said, I don't allow myself to do it too often, as I tend to play until my money's gone.

I wish I could make a living at it, but I win a bit one year, lose it back the next, but I keep track. The only way I can control myself is to get a credit line for what I can afford and never, ever take a credit card with a PIN number.

464 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:57:43pm

re: #437 iceweasel

TheoCon is even better, because they are theocrats.

yes, exactly, no beating around the bush

465 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:57:52pm

re: #414 Jimmah

Carcass is a great band! Well done, sir. Heartwork and Swansong are great albums especially.

466 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:58:24pm

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards!

I am a Christian, I am a right-winger, and I am not evil.

I stand with NJDhockeyfan.

467 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:58:42pm

re: #442 iceweasel

yes. I pointed out to my friend that the reason for the lack of windows and the whole rat-maze structure is specifically to help people lose track of time.
The constant free booze helps too, I'm sure.

Of course it does. It is all very well constructed for those purposes.

468 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:58:50pm

re: #456 Rightwingconspirator

It's my sock puppet.

469 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:59:06pm

re: #447 PT Barnum

Do you want to subject everyone else to the dictums of your personal faith? If not, then you are truly not evil.

I won't do that. I don't care what anyone else's religion is either. As long as you don't want to kill everyone who doesn't believe in your religion then worship anything/anyone you want.

My favorite obscure religion.

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

470 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:59:13pm

re: #452 darthstar

I'm a good, no great!, poker player for about two hours. I read people quickly, bluff well, and change my game enough to be quite effective. Unfortunately, I'm also easily read, so after about two hours anyone who's worth their weight in salt at the table has me read and after that I'm dead in the water.

i am excellent with chips, and literally don't stay in unless i have a fantastic hand the few times i played with money. i think that means i'm mediocre, since it doesn't really matter how good you are with chips!

471 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:59:33pm

re: #460 Jimmah

Lol Scissor Sisters!

Portland Band!!

472 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 6:59:51pm

re: #468 Killgore Trout

Okay so both are yours... Duh!
Noob moment.

473 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:00:13pm

Theres something about gambling that draws corruption.


/maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

474 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:00:19pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

A little story about the pious that I have told here before, but it was a powerful lesson for me.

The last time I was in Israel, I saw a graduation ceremony for the IDF at night at the Kotel.

The young soldiers were glorious in their uniforms arrayed in neat ranks. They had formed a square. For those who do not know, the Kotel is the plaza of the Wailing Wall.

Martial music was played and flaming braziers were lit. The officers were on one side of the square conducting the ceremony and the non coms formed the sides of the square. This was in the plaza just outside of the prayer area.

The families of the young soldiers were behind them. My heart was overflowing with pride for them all.

As the ceremony progressed, three fat, wheezing black and white wearing Jews, in a fit of displaying how holy they were, pushed their way through the ranks of the soldiers, walked brazenly across the square, and then pushed through the officers on there way to wash their hands and pray.

They have the ability to pray there because of the sacrifices of those they just disrespected. I was appalled. I was appalled not just for the disrespect, but for the stain this put on the name of G-d and those of us who are observant everywhere.

I was so furious I had to leave. My rabbi told me something very important. He said, reflecting on it, that it is the sins of those who profess righteousness that turn the most people away from G-d.

When I go and say I believe in G-d, I am always confronted with the sins and hypocrisy of the so called righteous. It is a difficult argument to counter. Who wants to hear that you can not blame the religion or G-d for the defective people who claim to represent?

This applies to all faiths.

Very good story, Ludwig. Those three were some of the biggest hypocrites I've ever heard of, more concerned with following rituals than the faith behind them.

475 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:00:33pm

re: #469 NJDhockeyfan

I call your Flying Spaghetti Monster and raise you a Church of the Subgenius!

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:00:53pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

The Pharisee and the Publican.

It is an important parable.

Told by a great Rabbi.

477 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:00:54pm

re: #458 iceweasel

Oh god, AC is the worst. The pits. Used to be a really corrupt town in many ways (don't know if it still is). Friend of mine was working for the Dems there in the 80's and had some horrendous stories. There was some huge scandal involving the mayor at one point I think?

The year is not complete without some mayor getting in trouble in Jersey. I don't remember the Atlantic City scandal. It was a very poverty stricken town before the casinos came in. That doesn't always translate into new opportunities for the poor however and they're typically tossed to the curb. We went there a few times as kids before the casinos. Then I went once to throw away 70 bucks. I don't like the traffic it gets -- too many Bennies.

478 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:01:15pm

re: #473 windsagio

Theres something about gambling that draws corruption.

/maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

Break his legs Boys!

479 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:01:48pm

re: #440 Gus 802

You go to a bar and start drinking too much and eventually they kick you out. In a casino, they let you throw away all of your money regardless of the damage it may cause that person. I know it's popular with many people around the world but I never saw the appeal. I went to Atlantic City during the early days of gambling and the place was full of mafia wannabe floor bosses that made my skin curl. Plus, it's usually a tacky environment.

If I win a big jackpot, I get a check. I've seen people hit for 10K or better only to stay up all night feeding it back. I'd bet around 10-20% of the casino crowd should stay the hell out. They are not there to win, or have fun, they just want the action.

480 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:01:56pm

re: #432 PT Barnum

I prefer SoCons..or Authoritarian Right, as it really adds in all that is really wrong with those people.

Agreed. The Constitution is a singularly secular document. It says that the Gubmint shall not limit the practice of any religion (except those that violate other basic human rights- no eating Shinto babes). Full stop. The back side of that is that no religion shall lord their views over others. The Political Religious Right doesn't agree.

Hence, conflict.

"The Bible says, I believe it, that settles it" is no way to advance good public policy.

481 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:03:07pm

re: #470 Aceofwhat?

i am excellent with chips, and literally don't stay in unless i have a fantastic hand the few times i played with money. i think that means i'm mediocre, since it doesn't really matter how good you are with chips!

It's always chips...even when the chips represent real money...I'll play $3-$6 Hold 'em, but that's tough because there are lots of players who will bet anything no matter what their odds are. Playing no-limit is better because (even though you can lose a LOT in one hand) it's easier to bluff. I'll sit at a table and after three people bet $20 before the flop, raise $100 with jack-shit in my hand and collect a quick $60....then I'll show. That usually keeps me safe for the first hour. The hard part is walking away while I'm still up three or four hundred. If I don't, I'd might as well just give it away.

482 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:03:18pm

re: #465 WindUpBird

Carcass is a great band! Well done, sir. Heartwork and Swansong are great albums especially.

Genuinely terrifying music. I love it!

483 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:03:27pm

re: #474 Dark_Falcon

Very good story, Ludwig. Those three were some of the biggest hypocrites I've ever heard of, more concerned with following rituals than the faith behind them.

Yes, and also ignoring any number of other Laws they should have respected as well. Truly appalling. I bring this because what I hate is hypocrisy and evil done in the name of G-d.

It does not matter who does it. It is all the same - and obviously terribly wrong.

484 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:03:28pm

re: #471 windsagio

Lol Scissor Sisters!

Portland Band!!

diggin it as i type

485 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:03:34pm

re: #440 Gus 802

You go to a bar and start drinking too much and eventually they kick you out. In a casino, they let you throw away all of your money regardless of the damage it may cause that person. I know it's popular with many people around the world but I never saw the appeal. I went to Atlantic City during the early days of gambling and the place was full of mafia wannabe floor bosses that made my skin curl. Plus, it's usually a tacky environment.

Last time I was in Vegas and went to some bars where the locals hang out, even there they might have video poker games embedded in the bars themselves. The locals, who all work in the industry in some way, would still sit there feeding money in. I never saw anyone get booted no matter how drunk they were. Then again, these were some serious dives with people who seemed to have several addiction problems, IYKWIM.

486 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:03:37pm

re: #479 avanti

If I win a big jackpot, I get a check. I've seen people hit for 10K or better only to stay up all night feeding it back. I'd bet around 10-20% of the casino crowd should stay the hell out. They are not there to win, or have fun, they just want the action.

Yeah, it's a lifestyle I suppose. Someplace to go.

487 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:03:38pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

I was so furious I had to leave. My rabbi told me something very important. He said, reflecting on it, that it is the sins of those who profess righteousness that turn the most people away from G-d.

. . .

Very powerful story, and the part I kept and bolded - right there - absolutely true, imo.

488 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:04:52pm

re: #481 darthstar

My poker playing is limited to a once a month get together with friends. I usually play for 3 hours or $10 whichever is gone first. Most nights they hit right about the same time. The nights I walk home with $10 are good ones.

489 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:05:47pm

re: #480 austin_blue

The problem is that alot of the mallet heads believe that the constitution is a "cristian"document.(if most of them really knew the religious beliefs if some of the founders their heads would explode!)

490 Vambo  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:06:21pm

another good reason to disassociate from the GOP, or either of the established parties as they both do this by turns:
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

seriously, what purpose do these people serve? all they do is poison the system. citizens are held hostage to the political game while people like Frank ****z rake in the cash.

491 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:06:31pm

re: #489 Boondock St. Bender

The problem is that alot of the mallet heads believe that the constitution is a "cristian"document.(if most of them really knew the religious beliefs if some of the founders their heads would explode!)

Well, it was written by God.
/

492 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:06:33pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

Outstanding, my man. Well said.

493 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:06:49pm

word to the wise, my sister dealt poker in Vegas for years. Her advice? Never, never, ever play poker in Vegas! play the slots or whatever...but when you are at a poker table you are most certainly surrounded by pros. They will skin you one piece at a time. You are a sheep among wolves at that table.

494 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:07:05pm

re: #485 iceweasel

Last time I was in Vegas and went to some bars where the locals hang out, even there they might have video poker games embedded in the bars themselves. The locals, who all work in the industry in some way, would still sit there feeding money in. I never saw anyone get booted no matter how drunk they were. Then again, these were some serious dives with people who seemed to have several addiction problems, IYKWIM.

It's weird. When I drove across the country some states are chock full of casinos in odd towns. You see a lot of down and out people that looked like the went through a lot of trouble to get there and toss there money into the pit. Then you have the riverboat casinos and now the Indian casinos. When I went to Santa Fe they had a lot of these oddly placed " McPalace" casinos in the middle of poverty stricken areas. The parking lots were full.

495 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:07:45pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

I have a similar experience, I was once at the Kotel and the feminist "Women of the Wall" were holding their performance services, wearing talis and tefillin. They jeered at me, called me "stupid slave cow, owned by men" for declining to join their "liberating" event.

I just wanted them to leave me the hell alone.

Everybody wants to be on TV.

496 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:07:59pm

re: #477 Gus 802

The year is not complete without some mayor getting in trouble in Jersey. I don't remember the Atlantic City scandal. It was a very poverty stricken town before the casinos came in. That doesn't always translate into new opportunities for the poor however and they're typically tossed to the curb. We went there a few times as kids before the casinos. Then I went once to throw away 70 bucks. I don't like the traffic it gets -- too many Bennies.

Atlantic City was almost destroyed by the race riots that gripped urban New Jersey in the late 1960's. It wasn't so much that the riots did damage but that they chased off the tourist trade that had been the city's lifeblood. It wasn't until gambling was allowed that some parts of the city began to recover and others never have.

497 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:08:09pm

re: #493 The Shadow Do

word to the wise, my sister dealt poker in Vegas for years. Her advice? Never, never, ever play poker in Vegas! play the slots or whatever...but when you are at a poker table you are most certainly surrounded by pros. They will skin you one piece at a time. You are a sheep among wolves at that table.

Yep...learned that lesson the hard way. Still, it's fun to try and play them...you can learn a lot losing a couple hundred to the pros.

498 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:08:11pm

re: #475 PT Barnum

I call your Flying Spaghetti Monster and raise you a Church of the Subgenius!

Double down on a religion to die for...

The Church of Euthanasia

499 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:09:08pm

speaking of oldies but goodies...


Youtube Video
500 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:09:16pm

re: #488 PT Barnum

My poker playing is limited to a once a month get together with friends. I usually play for 3 hours or $10 whichever is gone first. Most nights they hit right about the same time. The nights I walk home with $10 are good ones.

Vegas is cool...but playing cards with your buddies is better in so many ways, different but better...our stakes were usually $100 and we could play forever...my dad used to love and play with me a a couple of buddies...a wise old ex Marine who knew how to play poker....beating him was a huge triumph...lots of good memories as opposed to Vegas which is usually a blur

501 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:09:17pm

re: #487 reine.de.tout

Very powerful story, and the part I kept and bolded - right there - absolutely true, imo.

Thanks Fran. When my rabbi said it, the obvious truth of it, hit me like a ton of bricks.

Honestly, It made wearing a keepah very difficult for me. I do have a temper.

Some have noticed this...

If I lost my temper in public while wearing it, it would not be me losing it. It would be "that Jew" losing it.

So I do wear it and it does remind me to keep my cool in public.

502 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:09:28pm

re: #492 austin_blue

Outstanding, my man. Well said.

Thank you.

503 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:09:38pm

re: #204 jaunte

I'm pretty sure they're not thinking 'I'm gonna defend traditional marriage' when they write that stuff.

Traditional marriage: between one woman and one man who is TOTALLY not a homo.

//

504 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:09:38pm

re: #497 darthstar

Yep...learned that lesson the hard way. Still, it's fun to try and play them...you can learn a lot losing a couple hundred to the pros.

Sis said they would play at her table all day just trading dollars until you or I sat down. The tipped her well for not blowing the whistle on the action

505 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:09:38pm

re: #489 Boondock St. Bender

The problem is that alot of the mallet heads believe that the constitution is a "cristian"document.(if most of them really knew the religious beliefs if some of the founders their heads would explode!)

Big push by the Texas Board of Education to get the whole "Christian Founders" meme into the curriculum.

Sigh...

506 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:10:04pm

re: #493 The Shadow Do

word to the wise, my sister dealt poker in Vegas for years. Her advice? Never, never, ever play poker in Vegas! play the slots or whatever...but when you are at a poker table you are most certainly surrounded by pros. They will skin you one piece at a time. You are a sheep among wolves at that table.

Yep, look around the table for the donkey, if you don't see one, it's you. In AC, you'll often get a table with maybe one other good player and you cut split up the donkey money, that won't happen in Vegas.

507 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:10:11pm

re: #410 iceweasel

No idea. It could be anything really, maybe the author has personal life keeping him away from blogging, anything. I don't know anything apart from the blog being closed at the moment.

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

As the ceremony progressed, three fat, wheezing black and white wearing Jews, in a fit of displaying how holy they were, pushed their way through the ranks of the soldiers, walked brazenly across the square, and then pushed through the officers on there way to wash their hands and pray.

What a bunch of schmucks...

508 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:10:24pm

re: #493 The Shadow Do

word to the wise, my sister dealt poker in Vegas for years. Her advice? Never, never, ever play poker in Vegas! play the slots or whatever...but when you are at a poker table you are most certainly surrounded by pros. They will skin you one piece at a time. You are a sheep among wolves at that table.

yup....if yo need to play cards, play blackjack at O'Shays for a few hands

509 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:10:42pm

re: #498 NJDhockeyfan

Double down on a religion to die for...

The Church of Euthanasia

But the Church of the Subgenious has High Weirdness by Web the greatest collection of links to all your consipracy believing/raging paranoid/batshit crazy people on the Internets.

Alex Jones is at the top of the Conspiracy Theory sites which is enough reason to recommend it. I had a copy of the original "High Weirdness By Mail", and let me tell you there are a lot of strange fucking people out there.

510 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:10:43pm

re: #497 darthstar

Yep...learned that lesson the hard way. Still, it's fun to try and play them...you can learn a lot losing a couple hundred to the pros.

Like learning not to play the pros? Everyone learns from experience, I believe on this one I'll learn from your experience!

511 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:11:04pm

re: #505 austin_blue

once again you can't let truth confuse the young and impressionable

512 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:11:29pm

Lost! We know what Walter is watching...
How come after 5 years the fat guy never looses any weight? If he was a real actor he'd go all Tom Hanks on us and get skinnier by the year ( NOW there is a guy that could get stuck on an Island and make you believe it)
mmmm..I think the fat guy is heavier than season one...The Catering must have been first class on Lost...

513 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:12:09pm

re: #504 The Shadow Do

Sis said they would play at her table all day just trading dollars until you or I sat down. The tipped her well for not blowing the whistle on the action

Uh-huh...but still...talk about a boring life. My big dream is to play in one of the World Series of Poker tournaments. One day, when I have a couple thousand extra to throw away, I'll go play and see how long I can last. I won't go for the big game ($10,000 entry) unless I can win it in one of the smaller games. I'm not delusional enough to believe I can just walk in and win the damn thing.

514 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:12:14pm

re: #495 Alouette

I have a similar experience, I was once at the Kotel and the feminist "Women of the Wall" were holding their performance services, wearing talis and tefillin. They jeered at me, called me "stupid slave cow, owned by men" for declining to join their "liberating" event.

I just wanted them to leave me the hell alone.

Everybody wants to be on TV.

Yeah I don't get that.

I am pretty feminist in pretty much all ways, as I hope everything I write here has shown. However, what is the point of being a woman and wanting to do male mitzvot? It is not as if women are second class with the prayer at specific times exemption and it is not as we aren't all redeemed in the merit of the righteous women. I mean the Talit and keepah are there specifically for men, because we are seen as less temperate and need more reminders... I really don't get it.

When I meet those types I ask how they would feel about their husbands lighting Shabbos candles.

That usually shuts them up.

515 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:12:52pm

re: #512 HoosierHoops

Hi
Huge respects for putting down the email whiner.

516 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:13:15pm

re: #466 Taqyia2Me

I stand with NJDhockeyfan.

I would stand with NJDhockeyfan on principle, but sooner or later the Sharks are gonna go up against the Devils, which would just make things kinda awkward.
/

517 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:13:26pm

re: #512 HoosierHoops

Lost! We know what Walter is watching...
How come after 5 years the fat guy never looses any weight? If he was a real actor he'd go all Tom Hanks on us and get skinnier by the year ( NOW there is a guy that could get stuck on an Island and make you believe it)
mmm..I think the fat guy is heavier than season one...The Catering must have been first class on Lost...

Walter will crucify me for this, but I lost interest two years ago...it's like one of those shaggy dog stories that last and last and last and by the time you get to the punchline, you're ready to punch the teller because THEY WILL NOT GET TO THE FUCKING POINT!

518 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:13:38pm

re: #508 albusteve

yup...if yo need to play cards, play blackjack at O'Shays for a few hands

Oh hey, do you mean this place? O'Shea's? (caution, annoying website)
[Link: www.harrahs.com...]
We loved it there! Total kitsch!

519 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:14:13pm

re: #510 The Sanity Inspector

Like learning not to play the pros? Everyone learns from experience, I believe on this one I'll learn from your experience!

I used to play pool--a lot--in college...even paid some old fart $60 a lesson to learn to play better. Played against a number of professionals and got my ass kicked repeatedly. But now when I go to a bar that has a table, I can pretty much drink for free all night if I want.

520 avanti  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:14:15pm

re: #510 The Sanity Inspector

Like learning not to play the pros? Everyone learns from experience, I believe on this one I'll learn from your experience!

The crazy thing is, a pro can mentor a movie star for example, and a few months later they can run with the best players. There are even schools to learn to play for a living.

521 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:14:16pm

re: #509 PT Barnum

What a list of links on the left side. Too many acid trips by these people perhaps?

522 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:14:19pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

Good anecdote. At least in Christianity, we have the adage that the church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints. It doesn't make it any more comfortable when our fellows make asses of themselves, though.

523 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:14:24pm

re: #505 austin_blue

Big push by the Texas Board of Education to get the whole "Christian Founders" meme into the curriculum.

Sigh...

Who controls the Present, controls the Past.
Who controls the Past, controls the Future.

- George Orwell (Eric Blair), 1984

524 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:14:38pm

re: #518 iceweasel

The next fighting game tournament is at Caesars. In the new suites, they have HDTV's behind the bathroom mirrors :)

525 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:15:25pm

re: #521 NJDhockeyfan

What a list of links on the left side. Too many acid trips by these people perhaps?

Or not enough meds...

526 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:15:43pm

re: #522 The Sanity Inspector

Good anecdote. At least in Christianity, we have the adage that the church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints. It doesn't make it any more comfortable when our fellows make asses of themselves, though.

We have the same view too I promise. Even Moses hit the rock... Twice. Everyone can always improve.

527 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:15:52pm

re: #511 Boondock St. Bender

once again you can't let truth confuse the young and impressionable

It's just that it is this ongoing onslaught by the gaspers. They're Texas relentless. Last year it was "teach the controversy!" for evolution. This year it is "Christian Founders of the Constitution!" for social studies.

I'd like to think that they are willfully ignorant, but it has gone far beyond that.

528 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:16:25pm

re: #514 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah I don't get that.

I am pretty feminist in pretty much all ways, as I hope everything I write here has shown. However, what is the point of being a woman and wanting to do male mitzvot? It is not as if women are second class with the prayer at specific times exemption and it is not as we aren't all redeemed in the merit of the righteous women. I mean the Talit and keepah are there specifically for men, because we are seen as less temperate and need more reminders... I really don't get it.

When I meet those types I ask how they would feel about their husbands lighting Shabbos candles.

That usually shuts them up.

That doesn't shut them up.

When they complain about how persecuted they are, I just roll my eyes.

Imagine a group of attention queens at the Vatican, holding a Baptist service while wearing Pope hats and cardinal robes, bringing an entourage of media with them while complaining loudly that "Christians aren't allowed to pray in St. Peter's Square!"

529 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:16:52pm

re: #514 LudwigVanQuixote

I visited the Western Wall ages ago, in college, and I'd love to go back some day. There's a place you can stand, looking down at the Jews praying at the Wall, and look up at the Dome of the Rock, and hear the bells of one of the churches around the way. Indelible image, for a young American gentile...

530 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:17:05pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

Updinged and favorited.

Having been to the Kotel many times, I can exactly picture the scene. Some of those fat wheezer Haredis look at ordinary people there (especially the tourists) as though they were an affront to God.

Of course, some are completely sincere in their devotions and take no notice of others.

The demonstratively pious ones are the people Jesus was talking about when he said to go into a quiet room when you pray. Praying for the benefit of bystanders is like putting a Jesus Fish on your car. You're not honoring God, but yourself.

531 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:17:46pm

re: #458 iceweasel

Oh, it's still corrupt and run incompetently, and whatever attempts at turning the place around have gone awry. They've got shiny new casinos, but stray from 'em, and you're on your own. The city is still a mess.

532 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:18:15pm

re: #524 windsagio

The next fighting game tournament is at Caesars. In the new suites, they have HDTV's behind the bathroom mirrors :)

Stu: So, uh, are you sure you're qualified to be taking care of that baby?
Alan: What are you talking about? I've found a baby before.
Stu: You found a baby before? Where?
Alan Garner: Coffee Bean.

533 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:18:19pm

re: #331 darthstar

Speaking of homophobes...Duncan Hunter (R-CA) was on NPR and asked about DADT...he said it would open the door to "transgenders and hermaphrodites" Yes...he really said hermaphrodites. The NPR interviewer asked him about this, and he stammered out more insanity about showers and toilets.

You cannot catch being a hermaphrodite from a toilet seat. This, I am fairly sure about.

534 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:18:25pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

Quite good! I wasn't around when you told it before so it's not a repeat for me. Church isn't a building of perfect people. There would be no need for religion for the already perfected.

Regina Spektor's Laughing With is partly on the theme of those righteous ones you mentioned. Here's a bit of it.

But God can be funny
At a cocktail party when listening to a good God-themed joke, or
Or when the crazies say He hates us
And they get so red in the head you think they’re ‘bout to choke
God can be funny,
When told he’ll give you money if you just pray the right way
And when presented like a genie who does magic like Houdini
Or grants wishes like Jiminy Cricket and Santa Claus
God can be so hilarious

535 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:18:34pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

Great post, Ludwig. I respect people for doing and being good, people who try to radiate faux goodness by adopting religious mannerisms etc seriously piss me off.

536 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:18:41pm

re: #530 Cato the Elder

Updinged and favorited.

Having been to the Kotel many times, I can exactly picture the scene. Some of those fat wheezer Haredis look at ordinary people there (especially the tourists) as though they were an affront to God.

Of course, some are completely sincere in their devotions and take no notice of others.

The demonstratively pious ones are the people Jesus was talking about when he said to go into a quiet room when you pray. Praying for the benefit of bystanders is like putting a Jesus Fish on your car. You're not honoring God, but yourself.

That knife cuts both ways, I pointed out to Ludwig that the feminists who parade in talis and tefillin are equally obnoxious in their public display of fake piety.

537 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:18:54pm

re: #512 HoosierHoops

Ever see "The Machinist"?

538 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:19:47pm

re: #496 Dark_Falcon

Atlantic City was almost destroyed by the race riots that gripped urban New Jersey in the late 1960's. It wasn't so much that the riots did damage but that they chased off the tourist trade that had been the city's lifeblood. It wasn't until gambling was allowed that some parts of the city began to recover and others never have.

I'm not sure if there was ever any race riots in Atlantic City. I know they took place in Asbury Park and around Neptune.

539 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:19:51pm

re: #479 avanti

If I win a big jackpot, I get a check. I've seen people hit for 10K or better only to stay up all night feeding it back. I'd bet around 10-20% of the casino crowd should stay the hell out. They are not there to win, or have fun, they just want the action.

Speaking of which, I'm back in the neighborhood, and you and I have a date to hit Atlantic City. Get out your calendar and suggest a day. My nick is blue.

540 albusteve  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:19:53pm

re: #518 iceweasel

Oh hey, do you mean this place? O'Shea's? (caution, annoying website)
[Link: www.harrahs.com...]
We loved it there! Total kitsch!

yeah, spelling was my best shot...we always walk up the strip and it's a good place to have a drink and take a breather....one of the last of the old strip casino/bars...kind of a landmark I guess....my wife won $800 bucks on the Elvis quarter machine in front....everybody said they'd never seen it go off like that!...."one for the money!...two for the show!" and loud!....what a hoot...more fun than the delux hotels imo

541 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:19:58pm

Oops! Just took a shot of Nyquil.

G'night knuckleheads....

542 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:19:58pm

re: #533 SanFranciscoZionist

You cannot catch being a hermaphrodite from a toilet seat. This, I am fairly sure about.

Don't tell Duncan Hunter...

543 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:20:08pm

re: #527 austin_blue

It's just that it is this ongoing onslaught by the gaspers. They're Texas relentless. Last year it was "teach the controversy!" for evolution. This year it is "Christian Founders of the Constitution!" for social studies.

I'd like to think that they are willfully ignorant, but it has gone far beyond that.

Teach the controversy!

544 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:20:13pm

re: #530 Cato the Elder

Updinged and favorited.

Having been to the Kotel many times, I can exactly picture the scene. Some of those fat wheezer Haredis look at ordinary people there (especially the tourists) as though they were an affront to God.

Of course, some are completely sincere in their devotions and take no notice of others.

The demonstratively pious ones are the people Jesus was talking about when he said to go into a quiet room when you pray. Praying for the benefit of bystanders is like putting a Jesus Fish on your car. You're not honoring God, but yourself.

Spot on.

We have the notion of a "holy fool" in the Talmud. A holy fool will not interrupt his prayers to help someone who is drowning.

545 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:20:25pm

re: #533 SanFranciscoZionist

You cannot catch being a hermaphrodite from a toilet seat. This, I am fairly sure about.

But you can catch a toilet seat from a hermaphrodite.

/

546 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:20:25pm

re: #531 lawhawk

Oh, it's still corrupt and run incompetently, and whatever attempts at turning the place around have gone awry. They've got shiny new casinos, but stray from 'em, and you're on your own. The city is still a mess.

Thanks for the link!
Yeah, my friends lived there and when I visited the town was really horrible. Anything away from the casinos, basically. Now that I think about it, one of the reasons my friends left was because they were attacked and beaten by 5 guys. No reason other than that they were in the wrong neighbourhood and the wrong colour.

547 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:20:36pm

re: #536 Alouette

That knife cuts both ways, I pointed out to Ludwig that the feminists who parade in talis and tefillin are equally obnoxious in their public display of fake piety.

And you are both right.

548 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:20:40pm

re: #513 darthstar

Uh-huh...but still...talk about a boring life. My big dream is to play in one of the World Series of Poker tournaments. One day, when I have a couple thousand extra to throw away, I'll go play and see how long I can last. I won't go for the big game ($10,000 entry) unless I can win it in one of the smaller games. I'm not delusional enough to believe I can just walk in and win the damn thing.

I can appreciate that. I played some back in the day. That's why she made sure to warn me.

Instead I took up a really boring roulette system that pays. This is a means of supporting my wife when there together. I earn it, she burns it. My wife is the one who you've seen in the casino slots area before - a whirling dervish! It is possible to play 10 machines at once - amazing to behold really.

549 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:20:50pm

re: #545 NJDhockeyfan

But you can catch a toilet seat from a hermaphrodite.

/

Only if you're playing a weird game of ring toss.

550 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:21:08pm

re: #533 SanFranciscoZionist

You cannot catch being a hermaphrodite from a toilet seat. This, I am fairly sure about.

Yeah, but I think what Duncan Hunter has is contagious.

/

551 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:21:34pm

In the interest of levity, I found out recently that Jimmah was not iceweasel's first engagement. The first one, however, ended in a nasty fight. With my tongue firmly in-cheek, I present the footage of that fight:

Youtube Video

(This is my own riff off of ice and Jimmah's "wedding video. Nothing in the above post should be taken seriously.)

552 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:21:53pm

re: #528 Alouette

That doesn't shut them up.

When they complain about how persecuted they are, I just roll my eyes.

Imagine a group of attention queens at the Vatican, holding a Baptist service while wearing Pope hats and cardinal robes, bringing an entourage of media with them while complaining loudly that "Christians aren't allowed to pray in St. Peter's Square!"

Yeah. Real religion at least a disciple of Abraham asks what about you? These people are all about what about me.

553 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:22:13pm

re: #499 Aceofwhat?

speaking of oldies but goodies...

[Video]

Hey pixies! And a version I haven't heard before too.

More Pixies! - 'Rock Music'

Youtube Video
554 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:22:15pm

re: #541 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oops! Just took a shot of Nyquil.

G'night knuckleheads...

Poor thing. That cold has its grip on you! I've about got mine beat down. Sleep tight, FBV!

555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:23:27pm

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Goodnight. Love you guys.

556 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:23:28pm

re: #548 The Shadow Do

I can appreciate that. I played some back in the day. That's why she made sure to warn me.

Instead I took up a really boring roulette system that pays. This is a means of supporting my wife when there together. I earn it, she burns it. My wife is the one who you've seen in the casino slots area before - a whirling dervish! It is possible to play 10 machines at once - amazing to behold really.

Got a link to that roulette system? I only play the bottom 12 and the zeroes and hope the ball stays in my section of the wheel more than 1 out of 3 spins on average (then I slowly gain in chips).

557 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:23:33pm

re: #530 Cato the Elder

Updinged and favorited.

Having been to the Kotel many times, I can exactly picture the scene. Some of those fat wheezer Haredis look at ordinary people there (especially the tourists) as though they were an affront to God.

Of course, some are completely sincere in their devotions and take no notice of others.

The demonstratively pious ones are the people Jesus was talking about when he said to go into a quiet room when you pray. Praying for the benefit of bystanders is like putting a Jesus Fish on your car. You're not honoring God, but yourself.

Our group visited one of the haredi neighborhoods in Jerusalem. Scarves for the girls, caps for the guys, so as not to be spat upon by the locals.

But when we went to one of the haredi bakeries and ordered up some pastries, oooohhh...from their kitchens to G-d's tastebuds, those eclairs were.

558 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:23:37pm

re: #354 Spare O'Lake

Which door would one open to a hermaphrodite?

Ask. They'll tell you.

559 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:24:19pm

re: #537 Slumbering Behemoth

Ever see "The Machinist"?

Nope..Thanks!
Does it suck like Lost?
*Crash! Clang!*
911 May I help you?
Walter! Walter is trying to ki..He..lp. me!
911 may I help you?
Walter....i..s Gasp..Is trying to k.l,.ll me!!
911..May I help you?
Walter!
Sir..This is 911..May I help you?
Click!

560 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:24:34pm

re: #551 Dark_Falcon

In the interest of levity, I found out recently that Jimmah was not iceweasel's first engagement. The first one, however, ended in a nasty fight. With my tongue firmly in-cheek, I present the footage of that fight:


[Video](This is my own riff off of ice and Jimmah's "wedding video. Nothing in the above post should be taken seriously.)

/and that's when the fight started...

Updinged and favourited! Laughing so hard. I love you DF! (in a purely chaste and platonic way of course)

561 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:24:39pm

OT:

Some heath care news from my State...

Virginia Senate bills say no to requiring health insurance

RICHMOND -- Virginia's Democratic-controlled state Senate passed measures Monday that would make it illegal to require individuals to purchase health insurance, a direct challenge to the party's efforts in Washington to reform health care.

562 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:26:07pm

re: #553 Jimmah

Hey pixies! And a version I haven't heard before too.

More Pixies! - 'Rock Music'


[Video]

good, i was hoping i'd catch someone by surprise with that version. i prefer it.

563 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:28:58pm

Well, the boy is in bed and I have stuff to get done before the missus gets home..have a good night everybody.

564 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:29:50pm

re: #544 LudwigVanQuixote

Spot on.

We have the notion of a "holy fool" in the Talmud. A holy fool will not interrupt his prayers to help someone who is drowning.

In late adolescence I had a brief St. Francis phase, and set out to become a holy fool. Unfortunately, I was only able to get it half right.

Did you ever read Elie Wiesel's Souls on Fire? I liked the tale of one simple rabbi, who had a beggar come to his door. The rabbi gave him the only valuable thing he could find, a ring. When his wife found out, she was furious:
"You idiot! That ring had a real diamond in it! Do you realize how much it costs?!"
The chagrined rabbi charged out of the house and took off after the beggar.
"Friend! Listen, wait! That ring is expensive! Be careful of sharpers--don't sell it too cheap!"

565 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:30:05pm

re: #469 NJDhockeyfan

I won't do that. I don't care what anyone else's religion is either. As long as you don't want to kill everyone who doesn't believe in your religion then worship anything/anyone you want.

My favorite obscure religion.

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

My husband is a Pastafarian.

566 SteveC  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:30:31pm
We get mail!

"You sent Charles Johnson that e-mail and showed him who is boss!"

"He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him."

567 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:31:05pm

re: #565 SanFranciscoZionist

My husband is a Pastafarian.

A penne for your thoughts.

RAmen.

568 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:31:10pm

re: #559 HoosierHoops

It's not like Lost. I made the connection due to your comment about actors making certain sacrifices for their craft (i.e. Tom Hanks loosing weight). I won't spoil it, but it's about a dude who hasn't slept in over a year. Bale starved himself into skeleton to play the part, because he figured anyone who hasn't had a wink of sleep for that long should look pretty well ravaged.

I thought The Machinist was a pretty good film/story. Besides that, any film featuring Miss Leigh's boobs gets a thumbs up from me.

569 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:31:32pm

re: #544 LudwigVanQuixote

Spot on.

We have the notion of a "holy fool" in the Talmud. A holy fool will not interrupt his prayers to help someone who is drowning.

Yes. Time to look up and see what's going on around you!

"And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?"

570 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:31:41pm

re: #561 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

Some heath care news from my State...

Virginia Senate bills say no to requiring health insurance

Huh. I wonder what the showdown would look like if the feds passed just such a mandate.

571 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:32:28pm

re: #565 SanFranciscoZionist

My husband is a Pastafarian.

Secret Pastafarian Video Exposed

Youtube Video
572 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:34:01pm

re: #501 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks Fran. When my rabbi said it, the obvious truth of it, hit me like a ton of bricks.

. ..

People keep doing this.
I think I'm just gonna have to change my nic ...
LOL.

573 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:34:26pm

guilty secret - sometimes i let my son fall asleep next to me just because there's nothing like the sleepy hug you get when you carry a half-awake kid to their bed.

'night, all-

574 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:34:37pm

re: #514 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah I don't get that.

I am pretty feminist in pretty much all ways, as I hope everything I write here has shown. However, what is the point of being a woman and wanting to do male mitzvot? It is not as if women are second class with the prayer at specific times exemption and it is not as we aren't all redeemed in the merit of the righteous women. I mean the Talit and keepah are there specifically for men, because we are seen as less temperate and need more reminders... I really don't get it.

When I meet those types I ask how they would feel about their husbands lighting Shabbos candles.

That usually shuts them up.

I don't get Israeli police arresting a Jew for wearing a tallit at the Kotel.

Which is what happened to Nofrat Frenkel in November.

575 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:34:43pm

re: #547 LudwigVanQuixote

And you are both right.

I think "World's Most Obnoxious Religious Fanatics" would make a great reality TV show.

576 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:34:44pm

re: #556 darthstar

Got a link to that roulette system? I only play the bottom 12 and the zeroes and hope the ball stays in my section of the wheel more than 1 out of 3 spins on average (then I slowly gain in chips).

* 36 numbers plus zero and double zero = 38 possible slots for the ball to land
* Payback is 35 to one if you hit
* House edge is 3 slots
* Play 5 numbers (and never vary these numbers)
* You will hit once every 7-8 times if probability holds. Note, the odds remain 38-1 every spin
* Your possible edge: the casinos post the last 10 numbers that hit. You must wait until there have been a minimum of 8 passes without your predetermined numbers having hit.
* Play and move on to the next wheel and repeat the process. I have often hit 4 or 5 times out of ten doing this.
* If it is not your night you will still lose - remember the odds, not the probabilities remain 38-1.
* This is fucking boring by the way. the wheel jockey will instantly know your game. this means I am free to drink for free while the casino help pitches in and actually places my chips for me.

Footnote: I always take my winnings and lay it down on one hand of blackjack. this does not typically end well.

577 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:34:48pm

re: #566 SteveC

"You sent Charles Johnson that e-mail and showed him who is boss!"

"He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him."

KHAAAAAN!

/upding for the Star Trek II reference

578 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:34:56pm

re: #570 Aceofwhat?

Huh. I wonder what the showdown would look like if the feds passed just such a mandate.

According to the article:

Other legal scholars and many of the senators who voted against the measure said they thought it would have little practical impact because it would be preempted by federal law.

So it won't stop anything except it sure sends a message.

579 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:35:17pm

re: #573 Aceofwhat?

guilty secret - sometimes i let my son fall asleep next to me just because there's nothing like the sleepy hug you get when you carry a half-awake kid to their bed.

'night, all-

That's a great guilty secret.
I remember those days . . . there's really nothing better.

580 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:35:22pm

re: #568 Slumbering Behemoth

It's not like Lost. I made the connection due to your comment about actors making certain sacrifices for their craft (i.e. Tom Hanks loosing weight). I won't spoil it, but it's about a dude who hasn't slept in over a year. Bale starved himself into skeleton to play the part, because he figured anyone who hasn't had a wink of sleep for that long should look pretty well ravaged.

I thought The Machinist was a pretty good film/story. Besides that, any film featuring Miss Leigh's boobs gets a thumbs up from me.

What about Nicole Kidman taking off her Clothes and going skinny dipping in that Billy Bathe movie? Come to thing of it..I've seen all of Tom Cruises ex-wives naked...

581 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:35:39pm

re: #571 NJDhockeyfan

My favorite part of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is their "study" of the relationship between global warming and the decreasing number of pirates.

582 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:35:40pm

re: #551 Dark_Falcon

In the interest of levity, I found out recently that Jimmah was not iceweasel's first engagement. The first one, however, ended in a nasty fight. With my tongue firmly in-cheek, I present the footage of that fight:


[Video](This is my own riff off of ice and Jimmah's "wedding video. Nothing in the above post should be taken seriously.)

Heh. Too funny!

583 Gus  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:35:53pm

BBIAW

584 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:36:21pm

re: #576 The Shadow Do

at risk of misunderstanding something, doesn't that system work on the presumption that certain numbers are 'due' if they haven't come up for a while?

585 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:36:46pm

re: #575 Alouette

I think "World's Most Obnoxious Religious Fanatics" would make a great reality TV show.

Right up until one of them killed someone on camera.

-not really kidding.

586 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:37:07pm

re: #552 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah. Real religion at least a disciple of Abraham asks what about you? These people are all about what about me.

I'm not too crazy about the piety of those who showed their upset about the 'feminists' with their 'fake piety' by throwing chairs at them in front of the Kotel, either.

587 ryannon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:37:18pm

re: #506 avanti

Yep, look around the table for the donkey, if you don't see one, it's you. In AC, you'll often get a table with maybe one other good player and you cut split up the donkey money, that won't happen in Vegas.

A really fine film about Las Vegas and the casinos: The Cooler

Youtube Video

Great musical score by Mark Isham as well....

Youtube Video
588 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:37:37pm

re: #576 The Shadow Do

Thanks...I like that system....though I'd probably be tempted to play six numbers as I like even numbers...I know...I'm a freak.

589 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:38:24pm

re: #575 Alouette

I think "World's Most Obnoxious Religious Fanatics" would make a great reality TV show.

That 'dark sided' lady would probably participate.

590 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:39:15pm

Sigh. Nothing says "you are staff" then one of the Cat Lords pathetically hacking a humongous hairball on the carpet in front of you... and then within seconds making insistent demands for food dish service ME-NOW!

591 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:39:32pm

re: #584 windsagio

at risk of misunderstanding something, doesn't that system work on the presumption that certain numbers are 'due' if they haven't come up for a while?

Just so.

I first jumped on this when I observed a wheel out of tilt that consistently hit on only one half. That was a very good evening.

592 SteveC  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:39:34pm

re: #570 Aceofwhat?

Huh. I wonder what the showdown would look like if the feds passed just such a mandate.

The Canadians are coming!

Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams is scheduled for heart surgery in the United States, a move that throws into question his province's and his nation's health-care system.

593 windsagio  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:40:52pm

re: #591 The Shadow Do

heh that would be a good evening >>

I always read that roulette had the worst odds of anything in vegas, and blackjack had the best.

/course I don't gamble really, so I don't know THAT much about it.


I love hearing the theories tho', always fascinating.

594 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:40:57pm

re: #588 darthstar

Thanks...I like that system...though I'd probably be tempted to play six numbers as I like even numbers...I know...I'm a freak.

Six and not five improves the house edge.

595 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:41:23pm

re: #580 HoosierHoops

What about Nicole Kidman taking off her Clothes and going skinny dipping in that Billy Bathe movie? Come to thing of it..I've seen all of Tom Cruises ex-wives naked...

Hoops - can you check your e-mail?

596 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:42:27pm

re: #580 HoosierHoops

What about Nicole Kidman taking off her Clothes and going skinny dipping in that Billy Bathe movie? Come to thing of it..I've seen all of Tom Cruises ex-wives naked...

Never seen it, I may have to rent it just for that. Heh, who am I kidding.
:web search:

597 brookly red  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:42:46pm

re: #590 oaktree

Sigh. Nothing says "you are staff" then one of the Cat Lords pathetically hacking a humongous hairball on the carpet in front of you... and then within seconds making insistent demands for food dish service ME-NOW!

punt

598 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:43:01pm

re: #593 windsagio

heh that would be a good evening >>

I always read that roulette had the worst odds of anything in vegas, and blackjack had the best.

/course I don't gamble really, so I don't know THAT much about it.
The house hands you an edge with the public posting of prior hits. In the old days one would hang around and look furtive counting the spins.

I love hearing the theories tho', always fascinating.

599 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:43:01pm

re: #594 The Shadow Do

Six and not five improves the house edge.

Yes...I realize that. Five it is...I'll give it a try next time I'm in Tahoe and have time to hit the tables(I go up two or three weekends a month for ski patrol, though I only go to the casinos once or twice a season). I'll let you know how it works out.

600 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:43:18pm

re: #574 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't get Israeli police arresting a Jew for wearing a tallit at the Kotel.

Which is what happened to Nofrat Frenkel in November.

I didn't read that :(

I don't see anything wrong with a woman putting on talit and/or tefillin. The talit anyway and covering their heads. Making fun, taunting or otherwise disturbing someone else in prayer is pretty bad form, of course.

601 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:44:05pm

re: #592 SteveC

And he's leaving the system that the left would like to bring down here.

[snicker]

602 darthstar  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:44:22pm

re: #580 HoosierHoops

What about Nicole Kidman taking off her Clothes and going skinny dipping in that Billy Bathe movie? Come to thing of it..I've seen all of Tom Cruises ex-wives naked...

Nicole Kidman and Mimi Rogers: two reasons why I despise Tom Cruise. I think Nicole Kidman is lovely, and I love Mimi Rogers.

603 Stanghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:45:18pm

Hi! New Thread! I missed so much....

604 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:45:25pm

Down with the morons who tanked the economy.

Good night all.

605 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:45:26pm

re: #590 oaktree

Sigh. Nothing says "you are staff" then one of the Cat Lords pathetically hacking a humongous hairball on the carpet in front of you... and then within seconds making insistent demands for food dish service ME-NOW!

Winston is a spoiled Beverly Hills Chichuachu That prefers tuna or Arby's Roast beef for lunch with fresh Fiji Bottled water...
I serve at his pleasure...

606 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:46:00pm

re: #590 oaktree

Sigh. Nothing says "you are staff" then one of the Cat Lords pathetically hacking a humongous hairball on the carpet in front of you... and then within seconds making insistent demands for food dish service ME-NOW!

I have one who's incontinent. We have him in a diaper. You can commit me now.

607 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:46:48pm

re: #595 reine.de.tout

Hoops - can you check your e-mail?

Nothing on the Blackberry from you my friend

608 SteveC  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:47:04pm

re: #605 HoosierHoops

Winston is a spoiled Beverly Hills Chichuachu That prefers tuna or Arby's Roast beef for lunch with fresh Fiji Bottled water...
I serve at his pleasure...

Next, on CNN, the Cat News Network: Humans behaving badly... a disturbing trend?

609 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:47:24pm

re: #607 HoosierHoops

Nothing on the Blackberry from you my friend

Not from "reine".

610 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:47:38pm

re: #589 SanFranciscoZionist

Left a movie review at the bottom of "Jones" thread. It's "Yes", all in pentameter.

611 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:47:38pm

Speaking of Las Vegas -

Youtube Video
612 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:48:14pm

re: #607 HoosierHoops

Nothing on the Blackberry from you my friend

Also - sent to yahoo address.

613 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:49:13pm

re: #574 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't get Israeli police arresting a Jew for wearing a tallit at the Kotel.

Which is what happened to Nofrat Frenkel in November.

Nofrat Frankel wasn't arrested for "wearing a talit." She was arrested for causing a scene and disturbing the peace. See my post above, about Baptists visiting St. Peter's Square wearing Pope hats and my own little experience with the "righteous Women of the Wall."

BTW the police are secular. They do not enforce religious laws, but they do have a duty to maintain public order.

614 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:49:16pm

Wow. For an irrelevant blog, 77 registered users ain't bad. Special hellos to:

albusteve
Alouette
austin_blue
avanti
brookly red
Charles
Conservative Moonbat
Dark_Falcon
darthstar
Decatur Deb
Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Floral Giraffe
Gus 802
HoosierHoops
iceweasel
jaunte
Jimmah
Killgore Trout
lawhawk
LudwigVanQuixote
MandyManners
marjoriemoon
Naso Tang
reine.de.tout
researchok
ryannon
SanFranciscoZionist
Shiplord Kirel
Silvergirl
Slumbering Behemoth
The Curmudgeon
The Sanity Inspector
Walter L. Newton
webevintage

If your name isn't on the special hellos list, it implies only that a) I don't know you that well, b) we haven't interacted that much or c) I don't like your ass. You decide.

By the way, Google Toolbar informs me that tonight's LGF is in Czech. Usually it's Danish. That Charles, he keeps us on our toes.

615 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:49:40pm

re: #599 darthstar

Yes...I realize that. Five it is...I'll give it a try next time I'm in Tahoe and have time to hit the tables(I go up two or three weekends a month for ski patrol, though I only go to the casinos once or twice a season). I'll let you know how it works out.

Just so I don't hear about when you lose! LOL

Seriously, I have shown many folks my system and they never follow it. the temptation to try a different number from the preselects is too great. Drinks don't help the judgement either.

616 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:50:56pm

re: #567 darthstar

A penne for your thoughts.

RAmen.

I can't noodle out a good follow-on.

617 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:51:19pm

re: #614 Cato the Elder

Wow. For an irrelevant blog, 77 registered users ain't bad. Special hellos to:
. . .

If your name isn't on the special hellos list, it implies only that a) I don't know you that well, b) we haven't interacted that much or c) I don't like your ass. You decide.

By the way, Google Toolbar informs me that tonight's LGF is in Czech. Usually it's Danish. That Charles, he keeps us on our toes.

Well, I'd have chosen "c" just because I'm in that sort of mood tonight, but my name is on the list -- so special hello to you too!

618 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:51:54pm

re: #613 Alouette

Nofrat Frankel wasn't arrested for "wearing a talit." She was arrested for causing a scene and disturbing the peace. See my post above, about Baptists visiting St. Peter's Square wearing Pope hats and my own little experience with the "righteous Women of the Wall."

BTW the police are secular. They do not enforce religious laws, but they do have a duty to maintain public order.

Let's agree to disagree on this. I have my own experiences with both WoW and those 'righteous' who oppose them.

619 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:52:49pm

re: #618 SanFranciscoZionist

Let's agree to disagree on this. I have my own experiences with both WoW and those 'righteous' who oppose them.

Well, I would like to operate the ticket booth and snacks concession for their next cage match.

620 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:54:09pm

re: #614 Cato the Elder

All three?

621 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:54:57pm

Good night all!

Sweet dreams from South Austin.

622 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:55:19pm

re: #612 reine.de.tout

Also - sent to yahoo address.

I have something to send you in the morning..
How goes it down there is paradise? You excited about the SuperBowl? I'm excited for the Saints...To bad the Colts will win..*Wink*
I'll have somebody snap me with my newly dyed blue hair.. Nikki is going to put it up on her Facebook page...Jeez folks..It's just blue hair....

623 SteveC  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:55:50pm

re: #619 Alouette

Well, I would like to operate the ticket booth and snacks concession for their next cage match.

My brother was Regional Manager of a chain of theaters in South Florida. The base pay was crap, but 16 theaters x 3% of all concessions + 5% of all ticket sales = nice pay.

624 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:56:16pm

re: #611 Jimmah

Speaking of Las Vegas -


[Video]

Holy crap, I can't believe I didn't think of this little ditty sooner...

Youtube Video

Metal Up!

625 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:56:34pm

re: #620 oaktree

All three?

No. One out of three.

Which is why I'm sad about SteveC downdinging me on that comment. I just don't know you that well, Steve. I don't dislike you, I haven't interacted with you much, and I hereby give you a special greeting and hope to know you better.

626 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:56:48pm

re: #622 HoosierHoops

I have something to send you in the morning..
How goes it down there is paradise? You excited about the SuperBowl? I'm excited for the Saints...To bad the Colts will win..*Wink*
I'll have somebody snap me with my newly dyed blue hair.. Nikki is going to put it up on her Facebook page...Jeez folks..It's just blue hair...

Hoops - can't tell you how excited folks are about the Superbowl. I'm even excited about it, trying to figure out what to have to eat so we can just spend time watching the game not cooking!

Send me that blue-haired photo, if you're of a mind to do it.

627 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:57:15pm

re: #614 Cato the Elder

I got yer irrelevant right here.

628 abolitionist  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:58:51pm

re: #584 windsagio

at risk of misunderstanding something, doesn't that system work on the presumption that certain numbers are 'due' if they haven't come up for a while?

Excellent point. I can't see how it would be any different from a coin toss competition, where the "system strategy" would be to refrain from betting until you saw x number of heads (or tails) in a row. (Except that a fair coin toss would not favor the house.)

629 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 7:59:08pm

re: #617 reine.de.tout

Well, I'd have chosen "c" just because I'm in that sort of mood tonight, but my name is on the list -- so special hello to you too!

A person can take being called Fran just so many times.

630 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:00:07pm

re: #626 reine.de.tout

Hoops - can't tell you how excited folks are about the Superbowl. I'm even excited about it, trying to figure out what to have to eat so we can just spend time watching the game not cooking!

Send me that blue-haired photo, if you're of a mind to do it.

I'm going to a huge superbowl party...Probably my last for a while

631 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:01:22pm

Upstairs--->

632 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:01:45pm

re: #574 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't get Israeli police arresting a Jew for wearing a tallit at the Kotel.

Which is what happened to Nofrat Frenkel in November.

I just read an article she wrote in the Forward. Very powerful.

633 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:06:35pm

re: #614 Cato the Elder

Always an honor to have you favor me with a mention.

634 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:06:58pm

re: #629 Silvergirl

A person can take being called Fran just so many times.

I'm laughing so hard I've got tears in my eyes!

I can't tell you how many times someone or another has done that.
My anonymity is completely shot. LOL

635 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:11:33pm

Someone out there has found a new cache of Al Jarreau videos, and is uploading them to YouTube. One of them is a live date from the mid-80s, featuring Charles in a white blazer and short hair! :) He looks fresh off the set of Miami Vice!

Song's good, too.

636 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:13:05pm

re: #574 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't get Israeli police arresting a Jew for wearing a tallit at the Kotel.

Which is what happened to Nofrat Frenkel in November.

They did it to prevent a riot. That is not to excuse the Haredim who would have rioted. Not at all. However, She should have a clue. If you go to the Kotel, you play by Kotel rules.

637 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:14:25pm

re: #634 reine.de.tout

Just for you, I'm doing one thing I have not in years- and another thing I have never done in my life. 1-Taking an interest in a NFL game. 2. Rooting for the Saints. I had boycotted pro football since the Raiders left and LA got screwed by the Raiders, the Rams and the NFL. Yes that long.

Okay I lied. Just for you and my friends in NOLA, Saints loving Lizards, and Stuller company friends in Lafayette.

638 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:15:54pm

re: #636 LudwigVanQuixote

They did it to prevent a riot. That is not to excuse the Haredim who would have rioted. Not at all. However, She should have a clue. If you go to the Kotel, you play by Kotel rules.

Ludwig, it's not the Thunderdome, it exists for all the people of Israel.

639 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:17:06pm

re: #632 marjoriemoon

I just read an article she wrote in the Forward. Very powerful.

In the Food section. "Chocolate Chunk Macadamia Nut Martyr Cookies"

640 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:20:59pm

re: #626 reine.de.tout

Hoops - can't tell you how excited folks are about the Superbowl. I'm even excited about it, trying to figure out what to have to eat so we can just spend time watching the game not cooking!

Send me that blue-haired photo, if you're of a mind to do it.

WE WANT THE BLUE HAIRED PHOTO!.
I swear he's a fake!
Unless I see the photo.
I don't want to see the face, just, the HAIR!!!!!

641 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:21:04pm

re: #638 goddamnedfrank

Ludwig, it's not the Thunderdome, it exists for all the people of Israel.

I agree, however, you have to obey certain rules when there.

It is the Kotel.

If someone went into the Vatican and did something totally inappropriate to Catholic tradition, be they male or female it would be wrong and everyone would get it.

Torah law prohibits crossdressing. NOw look, I am clearly very pro woman and I have no beef with cross dressers. However, that does not mean they get to impose their views on the rest of the Jewish community and violate longstanding Jewish law in a public manner in our holiest spot.

A Talit is a mans garment. The Halachic argument ends there. And believe it or don't Religion is not a democracy. If you don't like the rules, then don't go to the Kotel. No one forced her to.

642 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:24:45pm

re: #614 Cato the Elder

Wow. For an irrelevant blog, 77 registered users ain't bad. Special hellos to:

albusteve
Alouette
austin_blue
avanti
brookly red
Charles
Conservative Moonbat
Dark_Falcon
darthstar
Decatur Deb
Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Floral Giraffe
Gus 802
HoosierHoops
iceweasel
jaunte
Jimmah
Killgore Trout
lawhawk
LudwigVanQuixote
MandyManners
marjoriemoon
Naso Tang
reine.de.tout
researchok
ryannon
SanFranciscoZionist
Shiplord Kirel
Silvergirl
Slumbering Behemoth
The Curmudgeon
The Sanity Inspector
Walter L. Newton
webevintage

If your name isn't on the special hellos list, it implies only that a) I don't know you that well, b) we haven't interacted that much or c) I don't like your ass. You decide.

By the way, Google Toolbar informs me that tonight's LGF is in Czech. Usually it's Danish. That Charles, he keeps us on our toes.

And, a special "hello" back at you!
I hope you are home for a while.
And have the time to rest your weary bones.

643 mikhailtheplumber  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 8:41:12pm

re: #614 Cato the Elder

Wow. For an irrelevant blog, 77 registered users ain't bad. Special hellos to:

albusteve
Alouette
austin_blue
avanti
brookly red
Charles
Conservative Moonbat
Dark_Falcon
darthstar
Decatur Deb
Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Floral Giraffe
Gus 802
HoosierHoops
iceweasel
jaunte
Jimmah
Killgore Trout
lawhawk
LudwigVanQuixote
MandyManners
marjoriemoon
Naso Tang
reine.de.tout
researchok
ryannon
SanFranciscoZionist
Shiplord Kirel
Silvergirl
Slumbering Behemoth
The Curmudgeon
The Sanity Inspector
Walter L. Newton
webevintage

If your name isn't on the special hellos list, it implies only that a) I don't know you that well, b) we haven't interacted that much or c) I don't like your ass. You decide.

By the way, Google Toolbar informs me that tonight's LGF is in Czech. Usually it's Danish. That Charles, he keeps us on our toes.

I'll go with a) and b), because I have a lovely ass.

644 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:01:18pm

re: #641 LudwigVanQuixote


If someone went into the Vatican and did something totally inappropriate to Catholic tradition, be they male or female it would be wrong and everyone would get it.

Granted, but here is where your analogy falls apart, for someone to go to the Vatican, which by the way makes no pretense about governing itself as a Democracy, and commits an offense, we can honestly assume that they are not a citizen of the Vatican. I can assume that they didn't complete their mandatory army service in the Swiss Guard, or as an IDF officer as Nofrat Frenkel has and continues to volunteer in the Civil Guard.

So, here's the way I honestly see it. Earlier up-thread you related a story about how three self-righteous Jews in a hurry pushed through and disrespected a graduating class of IDF soldiers instead of sharing the Kotel and behaving with dignity, and how wrong that felt to you. Well ... now you are justifying the reality, if not the reasoning behind an angry mob obstructing a few peaceful women who at worst are just doing it wrong. And lest we forget, this, unlike the Vatican, describes itself as a democracy ... in whose armed forces those women serve.

I love you man, but physicist to physicist, I see you flipping values here once the balance tips.

645 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:17:04pm

re: #644 goddamnedfrank

Frank, I love your posts, we have beef here at all, but I disagree with you completely and with your assessment of my stand.


I already said that the resulting riots from Haredim would itself be very wrong. However, you are missing a point about definitions.

Personal religious observance is a private thing. Who am I to judge how anyone else relates to God - provided they are not harming others.

If women want to go to synagogues where they wear a talit, that is their business. But the Kotel is not their synagogue in the same way. It is mine too.

Let's make this something less emotional so that I can illustrate it.

You are still a Jew if you eat a ham sandwich and I don't think you are a bad person if you do. If you don't buy into kashrut, that is between you and God. You may even be right.

However, if you eating a ham sandwich and calling it Jewish food, you are crazy.

The prohibition against cross dressing has been around for over three thousand years. What constitutes male and female garments is defined by the community.

Right? A skirt is a skirt unless it is a kilt. A Scottish Jewish man is not crossdressing if he wears a kilt. To everyone else though, without a tradition of the men wearing such garments, a garment that wraps around your legs like that is called a skirt.

By the same token I do not consider a woman to be cross dressing if she wears womens slacks, which no man who did not suffer a serious accident could easily wear. Those are not only socially defined as women's clothes, they are functionally women's clothes.

But a talit, has been a man's garment for over 2500 years in all Jewish communities.

There is no escaping that.

The Kotel is the center of the Jewish community. You would not eat a ham sandwich there and call it equally Jewish - nor would you any other place I hope, and a woman should not cross dress there.

We can and should have the right to preserve the Tradition in the spot that is the center of the Tradition. If you don't like it, don't go. I did not make the rules. Just don't kid yourself that the rules aren't what they are, or that violating them counts as Jewish. It counts as your take on Judaism, which is valid - for you privately - but not for the center of the community publicly.

OK I am not having any scales tipped against me. I would not go into the Vatican, howeverm, if I did, I would be respectful. Not because of the legalities of the Vatican city or its Jurisdiction, but because I would not want to offend Catholics in their central spot. The same courtesy should be extended by my fellow Jews to me in the center of our own faith.

646 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:17:54pm

re: #645 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF

Frank, I love your posts, we have NO beef here at all, but I disagree with you completely and with your assessment of my stand.

647 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:24:19pm

re: #644 goddamnedfrank

Also the thing that unifies both stories and honestly makes them the same in my mind is lack of respect for others.

The three Haredim obviously did not respect basic laws of decency and acted in a way that snubbed those who sacrificed for them and all other Jews, and the woman who wants to wear a Talit at the Kotel obviously has no respect for the established rules of the Tradition in public.

I mean as a man, would you go and pray in the women's section just to make a point, or would you be considered an asshole for trying?

648 mikhailtheplumber  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:40:46pm

re: #647 LudwigVanQuixote

Also the thing that unifies both stories and honestly makes them the same in my mind is lack of respect for others.

The three Haredim obviously did not respect basic laws of decency and acted in a way that snubbed those who sacrificed for them and all other Jews, and the woman who wants to wear a Talit at the Kotel obviously has no respect for the established rules of the Tradition in public.

I mean as a man, would you go and pray in the women's section just to make a point, or would you be considered an asshole for trying?

But Judaism does not have an undisputed central authority for the interpretation of the Holy Writ, like Catholicism does. While religion is certainly not a Democracy, Judaism does include several "denominations"; that is, different conceptions regarding practice and worship. And yes, the Kotel is the central locus of the Jewish faith, but you are very narrowly defining that faith. Haredim might consider themselves the only authentic Jews, but the Kotel is not exclusively theirs: an Israeli reform Rabbi (even a female reform Rabbi) has every right to go and worship there. Even more than the Haredim if she actually defends the State, the Kotel, and the Haredim themselves.

649 friarstale  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:45:12pm

well, for what it's worth, count me among the sycophants
I don't post as much as I once did, but I will always respect and admire Charles Johnson

I believe in Evolution
I believe Sarah Palin should have finished her term as Governor of Alaska, where she could shoot moose to her hearts content
I don't believe in AGW, but what the heck, ya don't have to agree with everything, right?

650 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:47:24pm

re: #648 mikhailtheplumber

But Judaism does not have an undisputed central authority for the interpretation of the Holy Writ, like Catholicism does. While religion is certainly not a Democracy, Judaism does include several "denominations"; that is, different conceptions regarding practice and worship. And yes, the Kotel is the central locus of the Jewish faith, but you are very narrowly defining that faith. Haredim might consider themselves the only authentic Jews, but the Kotel is not exclusively theirs: an Israeli reform Rabbi (even a female reform Rabbi) has every right to go and worship there. Even more than the Haredim if she actually defends the State, the Kotel, and the Haredim themselves.

Well yes and no. Like I said with the Ham sandwich. You can be Jewish and still eat one, but no-one would ever call a ham sandwich Jewish food.

Some things are well established. Some things have been around and practiced by essentially everyone for the last three thousand years. And everyne knows, or at least used to get those things. They may not have agreed, but they did not try to claim that their new take on things established since antiquity was something new. Further there is the Talmud.

We do not now have a central authority to interpret law. However, we certainly did once and they were really very wordy, covered a whole bunch of topics and were quite specific on many matters. Cross dressing is one of them.

Now look, if it were all up to me, there are a lot of things I would change about the Tradition. One of them would be the injunction against gay people.

My other big one would be agunot. Now that is a women's issue that thinking people should take issue with. Not arguing about wearing a talit.

As a final point, if a woman would not wear a tube top and jeans to a formal affair, and everyone gets this - just like you would not wear a t-shirt and jeans and everyone gets that, why should it now be somehow ok to violate the dress code at the holiest site of the religion?

It's just a matter of respect.

651 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:48:04pm
But a talit, has been a man's garment for over 2500 years in all Jewish communities.


There are three clauses in this passage.

(1) A man's item shall not be on a woman;
(2) and a man shall not wear a woman's garment;
(3) whoever does such a thing is an abhorrence unto Adonai.
Note the lack of parallel structure in the first two clauses. We might have expected the verse to say, "(1') A man may not wear women's clothes; (2') and a woman may not wear men's clothes." It is no violation of Biblical Hebrew style to repeat the same words in a single sentence, so it is peculiar that we do not have matching phrases. The words "man's" and "men" come first in both clauses, and in order to allow that, the first clause is passive while the second is active. Moreover, the first clause talks of kli gever "item" or "appurtenance" while the second clause uses the word simlat "dress" or "garment." It seems that the verse speaks of two differing but related rules.

Nonetheless, some of our sages read these two clauses as if they were the statement of two identical rules, one applying to men, one applying to women. That is, they read it as if it says, "a man or a woman shall not wear the items of the other gender." But most sages treat the two verses as distinct in intent.

One of the most unusual interpretations is that of the early Aramaic source referred to as Pseudo-Yonatan, a translation of the Hebrew Bible that renders kli gever, "a man's items" as tsitsit (tallit or prayer shawl) and tefillin (phylacteries or prayer amulets worn by traditionally observant Jews). Since these items are required by Halakha (Jewish law) for men but not for women, they are quintessential "men's items" and thus are the subject of this law, suggests Pseudo-Yonatan.

A debate has been raging for the past two-thousand years over whether women may wear tallit and tefillin, and if so, which berakha (blessing) they say when putting them on. In the course of that debate the minority who forbid women from wearing tallit and tefillin do not cite this interpretation or this verse as proof of their position. Moreover, none of the mainstream halakhic (legal) interpretations of this verse follow the midrash of Pseudo-Yonatan. Thus, this interpretation, while interesting, has no legal weight.

In another attempt to identify the quintessential "men's items," Rabbi Eliezer ben Jacob, quoted in the Talmud (edited c. 800 C.E.), says, "What is the proof that a woman may not go forth with weapons to war?" He then cites our verse, which he reads this way: "A warrior's gear may not be put on a woman" (B. Naz. 59a). He reads kli gever as the homograph kli gibbor, meaning a "warrior's gear."

This same understanding is followed by Midrash Mishlei (Proverbs) which contends that the Biblical character Yael in the Book of Judges kills General Sisera with a tent pin instead of a sword in order to comply with this law. It would have been "unlady-like" for her to use a sword — worse, a violation of the law — because a sword is a man's tool and so the righteous woman of valor finds an alternate weapon.

Here's the thing, we're approaching the discussion from two completely different frames of reference. I respect yours, but I don't have your first hand experience as an observant Jew, the closest I get is a large mixed Jewish / Japanese step-family, so instead I'm approaching this from a standpoint of what I, as an American, see as acceptable behavior from a fair civil democratic governance point of view. Those women served, I think they should get to wear whatever the hell they want. I'm happy to agree to disagree here.

652 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:54:00pm

re: #648 mikhailtheplumber

And further of course ALL Jews have the right to go and worship there. Of course they do. Where did I say they did not? I am just saying that everyone has to follow the rules. These rules are not new by any stretch of the imagination. They are also not discriminatory. There are indeed somethings which are women's garments. There are indeed somethings which are men's garments.

There is nothing wrong with saying that is what you wear when you are there.

Further, there is no notion that a woman's prayers are "less" than a man's in Judaism, in fact Hannah the mother of Shmuel is who taught us how to pray according to tradition. There is no notion that they are less worthy. In fact, we are taught that we are and have been preserved in the merit of righteous women of Israel.

Most women do not want you as a man in the women's section, in fact they tend like having their club away from us. There are only a very few women who get it into their heads that they need to be in the men's section.

I don't go into the women's rest room either. I have no problem with saying that somethings are girl territory. While having a woman come into my locker room or rest room would not bother me too much, (hey, I can't blame her for wanting to see me naked) I honestly can respect another man who might not want her there.

Why is this a bad thing?

653 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 9:57:38pm

re: #651 goddamnedfrank

You have brought correct information, but missed the remaining clause which is it was determined by tradition that women don't do these things because we do not know what beracha they would say - and as such, by tradition, the Talit became an exclusively male garment. Now that may seem like a lame reason for the Talit becoming exclusively a male garment, but it is also moot. Because like the kilt, once a garment becomes traditionally male or female, the crossdressing rule gets applied.

654 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:00:24pm
The sycophants love you and will do so against all facts not to mention good taste.


Actually we're not sycophants at all. We love you because you've earned that love, through moral courage, taking on the pernicious idiots both right and left.

By pernicious idiots I mean the ones who have the brains to know better, but won't use them to get at or expound the truth, preferring to use those brains to trick those less gifted (or too busy) into wrong beliefs and erroneous actions. Shills.

Pernicious idiots on the left taught that we were at fault and we deserved 9-11. Pernicious idiots on the right teach that the earth is quite young and that evolution and plate tectonics and fossils and the IR absorption spectrum of CO2 are all lies, and more generally, that science is from the devil. Others on the left teach that vaccination is the root of all illness.

All these people have some power. They don't like you getting in their way. It takes courage to stand up to them all. Well done, Charles.

655 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:03:44pm
You have brought correct information, but missed the remaining clause which is it was determined by tradition that women don't do these things because we do not know what beracha they would say

LOL @ trying to figure out what a woman's going to say. As a divorced man lemme tell you, she's just gonna say it.

656 Claire  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:06:10pm

re: #645 LudwigVanQuixote

I would not go into the Vatican, howeverm, if I did, I would be respectful. Not because of the legalities of the Vatican city or its Jurisdiction, but because I would not want to offend Catholics in their central spot.

You can go in the Vatican, you're welcome there- nobody minds. In fact, if you are in Rome, please DO go, it's beyond amazing for lots of different reasons- it would be a shame if you missed it.

657 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:10:37pm

re: #656 Claire

You can go in the Vatican, you're welcome there- nobody minds. In fact, if you are in Rome, please DO go, it's beyond amazing for lots of different reasons- it would be a shame if you missed it.

It is amazing. I would love to see the Cistine Chapel in particular. The reason I would not go is not because I am forbidden to see it, but because I respect it as your place, just as I respect the Kotel as mine. That does not mean you are not welcome at the Kotel either. I am NOT saying that. By all means you are. I personally would just feel uncomfortable because I frankly don't feel that I belong there.

658 mikhailtheplumber  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:18:41pm

re: #652 LudwigVanQuixote

And further of course ALL Jews have the right to go and worship there. Of course they do. Where did I say they did not? I am just saying that everyone has to follow the rules. These rules are not new by any stretch of the imagination. They are also not discriminatory. There are indeed somethings which are women's garments. There are indeed somethings which are men's garments.

There is nothing wrong with saying that is what you wear when you are there.

Further, there is no notion that a woman's prayers are "less" than a man's in Judaism, in fact Hannah the mother of Shmuel is who taught us how to pray according to tradition. There is no notion that they are less worthy. In fact, we are taught that we are and have been preserved in the merit of righteous women of Israel.

Most women do not want you as a man in the women's section, in fact they tend like having their club away from us. There are only a very few women who get it into their heads that they need to be in the men's section.

I don't go into the women's rest room either. I have no problem with saying that somethings are girl territory. While having a woman come into my locker room or rest room would not bother me too much, (hey, I can't blame her for wanting to see me naked) I honestly can respect another man who might not want her there.

Why is this a bad thing?

I understand your point of view. Still, I disagree. Personally, to me it sounds an awful lot like "separate but equal", even though I understand that might not be a valid argument about religious practices. Anyway, the bathroom analogy is too much of a stretch, as there are sexual reason (at least, reasons relating to nudity and the body) in it to apply.
My point is simply this: there are different traditions of Jewish practice. While a Reformist Jew might eat a ham sandwich and still consider himself Jewish, he will not consider a ham sandwich Jewish food. But he will also not consider his reformist synagogue analogous to a ham sandwich; i.e., not (or less) Jewish, even if the women are allowed to sit in the same room as the men or if the Rabbi herself is a woman.
An Orthodox Jew (and several Conservative Jews) would most likely disagree and consider both him and his synagogue "less Jewish". I simply question their authority to do this, particularly regarding the use of a holy site that belongs to all believing Jews, not just to (self-appointed) guardians of the faith.
If/whether this hypothetical Reformist Jew goes to an Orthodox shil, respect demands that he and his wife separate and each go to his gender's section. On the same logic, an Orthodox Jew cannot complain if he goes to a Reformist temple and finds women and men seating together.
But I don't consider the Kotel to be "Orthodox" (or "Reformist", of course). Yes, Rabbinic Judaism was the norm in Judaic practices for around two thousand years. No, that does not mean they get to dictate how non-Orthodox Jews are allowed to approach the Kotel or worship by the Western Wall. It is simply not exclusively theirs.

659 hambone  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:20:53pm

I always enjoy reading the fan mail LGF receives.It is nice to know Bug Shit Crazy people can use email. I shall try to avoid using the word dishonest from now on. I had no idea it was so easy to kill gay Jews. To thinks all the effort those Nazi had to use, if only they had known.

660 Claire  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:28:22pm

re: #657 LudwigVanQuixote

It's not "my place", I'm not Catholic. I wouldn't go on a Sunday morning but other than that you are under no obligation but to wander around and quietly gawk. There's no reason to feel uncomfortable. If I can go to the Blue Mosque, you can go to the Vatican, lol. A couple thousand other people will also be there to see the art and the history, you won't be the only infidel, believe me. There are so many tour groups of all nationalities (hundreds of people at any given time) following their umbrella holding guides you won't attract any attention. See the plaza, the dome, don't miss the Vatican museums (they take all day to see, unreal accumulation of wealth in one spot) and then go see the Sistine. Really you must.

661 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:28:37pm

re: #658 mikhailtheplumber

ON the contrary, the separation of sexes at prayer is precisely for sexual reasons. The idea is that you should be focusing on prayer and not flirting.

As to the norm, or who gets to decide what is Jewish, I have to completely disagree with you. A religion is defined by what it believes and the rules and practices it follows for whatever reason.

The Conservative and Reform movements were founded on the principle of "throwing out" bits that they did not like. I would never call the child of a Jewish mother not Jewish. However, to claim that whatever fun thing you do that violates Jewish law is Jewish is simply insulting.

That does not make you wrong or bad. It means you are not observant and that is your choice. Again you may be right, and like I said, I personally have problems, big problems with certain parts of the Tradition too. However, I do not kid myself as to what the Tradition is. I do not try to redefine it. I do not try to claim it is something other than it is.

This is just like a Catholic sect that became convinced that you do not take communion and that Jesus was actually a short Asian woman. They have every right to believe that. However, that is not Catholicism.

The Kotel is the physical center of the Tradition. Agree with it or not, some things should be preserved intact and pristine. It is not the place of me, or anyone else to try to change what that Tradition is particularly if it involves non-discriminatory rules that harm no one except the egos of certain disrespectful women.

662 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:37:12pm

re: #657 LudwigVanQuixote

It is amazing. I would love to see the Cistine Chapel in particular. The reason I would not go is not because I am forbidden to see it, but because I respect it as your place, just as I respect the Kotel as mine. That does not mean you are not welcome at the Kotel either. I am NOT saying that. By all means you are. I personally would just feel uncomfortable because I frankly don't feel that I belong there.

Honest, you'd be welcome. Christians accept that there are non-Christians. Christians want your lives to be rich and fulfilled, and part of that is that you should see the Sistine Chapel. It's one of the glories of humanity, all theological aspects put aside. It's even got some fun allusions to biology in it; the outline of God and Adam amounts to a brain.

663 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:39:46pm

re: #662 lostlakehiker

Honest, you'd be welcome. Christians accept that there are non-Christians. Christians want your lives to be rich and fulfilled, and part of that is that you should see the Sistine Chapel. It's one of the glories of humanity, all theological aspects put aside. It's even got some fun allusions to biology in it; the outline of God and Adam amounts to a brain.

Yeah but if I wear my red keepah, won't they think I was impersonating a cardinal? ;) Thank you for writing that. It was touching that you did.

664 mikhailtheplumber  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 10:52:55pm

re: #661 LudwigVanQuixote

ON the contrary, the separation of sexes at prayer is precisely for sexual reasons. The idea is that you should be focusing on prayer and not flirting.

As to the norm, or who gets to decide what is Jewish, I have to completely disagree with you. A religion is defined by what it believes and the rules and practices it follows for whatever reason.

The Conservative and Reform movements were founded on the principle of "throwing out" bits that they did not like. I would never call the child of a Jewish mother not Jewish. However, to claim that whatever fun thing you do that violates Jewish law is Jewish is simply insulting.

That does not make you wrong or bad. It means you are not observant and that is your choice. Again you may be right, and like I said, I personally have problems, big problems with certain parts of the Tradition too. However, I do not kid myself as to what the Tradition is. I do not try to redefine it. I do not try to claim it is something other than it is.

This is just like a Catholic sect that became convinced that you do not take communion and that Jesus was actually a short Asian woman. They have every right to believe that. However, that is not Catholicism.

The Kotel is the physical center of the Tradition. Agree with it or not, some things should be preserved intact and pristine. It is not the place of me, or anyone else to try to change what that Tradition is particularly if it involves non-discriminatory rules that harm no one except the egos of certain disrespectful women.

I don't redefine tradition (but I choose not to capitalize it), I simply do not think it has the power some assign to it. Also, traditions (not just Jewish, but any tradition) are not a-historical entities immune to change through the ages, even though they are portrayed as if they were. That's just not how history works.
The Kotel symbolizes a lot of different things to different Jews. I agree that the Kotel should be preserved. I do not see how women wearing a Talit taint the purity of it more than tourists wearing flip-flops and taking photos, yet the Haredim do not see the latter as a casus belli for rioting.
I do not agree with your assertion that forbidding women from wearing a Talit in that particular location is non-discriminatory. And I also don't see why the egos of certain disrespectful women are less valuable than the self-righteousness three misogynist ultra-Orthodox Jews.

665 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 11:17:20pm

re: #664 mikhailtheplumber

It is non-discriminatory because I do not get to cross dress either.

As to the rights of Jews who reject the Tradition to define the tradition, what is that?

They don't care any other time of the year, why should they care now?

Too bad.

666 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 2, 2010 11:19:54pm

re: #664 mikhailtheplumber

IN fact while we are at it, Would you think a young Native American gets to put the "moon walk" into the middle of a tribal dance and call that legit? If you don't want to play in the Tradition that is your business, but just like I don't get to go into your house and tell you how to pray doesn't mean you get to come into mine and tell me.

667 mikhailtheplumber  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 12:37:04am

re: #665 LudwigVanQuixote

It is non-discriminatory because I do not get to cross dress either.

As to the rights of Jews who reject the Tradition to define the tradition, what is that?

They don't care any other time of the year, why should they care now?

Too bad.

In the American South in the 1950s, white people could not drink from water fountains for black people. That did not make the fact that African Americans could not drink from water fountains for whites "non-discriminatory". By saying "cross-dressing" you are wiping under the carpet the power-dynamics inherent to the division of roles according to gender. Using your logic, Islam does not discriminate against women by hiding them under layers of clothes because men are not allowed to wear burkas, so it works both ways.
It is also untrue that non-Orthodox Jews only care during the High Holiday, if I understand the point you are making correctly (I might not be, though; my apologies in that case).


re: #666 LudwigVanQuixote

IN fact while we are at it, Would you think a young Native American gets to put the "moon walk" into the middle of a tribal dance and call that legit? If you don't want to play in the Tradition that is your business, but just like I don't get to go into your house and tell you how to pray doesn't mean you get to come into mine and tell me.

That is precisely my point. The Kotel is not the Orthodox's house. If a Reformist Jew goes into an Orthodox synagogue (or house, for that matter), he plays by the house rules. But the Kotel belongs to the Reformists as much as to the Orthodox.
Why do you think the three Haredim have a stronger claim on the Kotel than these female soldiers? It is thanks to the latter that the former can even approach the Temple Mount. One would expect the Haredim to appreciate that, since they are unwilling to fight for it themselves.

668 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 12:58:05am

re: #667 mikhailtheplumber

To respond to your two points:

First, respectfully, I really do not think that you know what a Talit is. I mean I am sure you have seen them, but they do not confer any special significance to a man that a woman does not already posses. In fact, if you read the tradition it is considered by many that men being less holy then women need extra reminders during prayer to stay focussed. If anything it is biased against men. The same is certainly true for a minyan. The reason that it takes ten Jewish men to pray and say certain prayers is an atonement for the ten spies sent to scout the land. Women are exempt from that. This is not a discrimination, but rather something that differentiates them positively from men.

Whenever I hear some semi educated about the Tradition Jewish woman rant about that, I suppress laughing at her.

OK? It is nothing like blacks in the South. You are projecting a bunch of nonsense into the equation that is simply not there. As to "separate but equal, the reason that it is such a charged thing in America as a phrase is that it was separate" but very far from equal. It is frankly ignorant and insulting to hear you equate the two. As already stated, the women's section is just as holy as the men's section and their prayers are just as good as ours. The reason for the separation has nothing to do with class or status, but everything to do with having people being able to focus on prayer without sexual distraction. And you know what, it is true. If you are a single guy in a mixed service, you tend to notice the women more than your prayers. That is just the way it works.

As to the Kotel belonging to Reform Jews as much as any other Jew, of course it does, but that does not mean they get to disrespect the rules.

One of the things that Sephardim do much better than Ashkenazim is that there is really only one way to be Sephardi. The Tradition is the Tradition and either you are observant or you are not. Everyone gets it. You are still a Jew if you are not into it, but if you aren't you don't have the chutzpah to say whatever half assed thing you do or just made up on your own is somehow the Tradition or just as valid. It took German, English and American Jews to assume that they needed manifestos to redefine the Tradition to their own tastes as if they were a Sanhedrin and as if that were legitimate. It was not and is not.

It is not a matter of it being the house of the Orthodox as you put it. It is a matter of being a holy place that is ages older than any of the various isms that plague Judaism today. The rules are age old. They have always been that way, and you know what, there is one place on Earth where they have the right to stay that way.

I am sorry that you despise the Tradition so much that you think respecting it at the Kotel is somehow backwards. I frankly find that offensive. If the Tradition is not kept there of all places then where should it be kept?

The place was not built by Reform Jews. The place was not built by non-observant Jews. The place is a holy place built by people who cared for the Tradition. That should still be respected. It means something.

669 mikhailtheplumber  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:27:57am

re: #668 ludwigvanquixote

I'm going to bed, so here's my last post for the night. We might retake this tomorrow, if you'd like.

I find it ironic that you call me ignorant for not knowing the true story behind the Talit (an ignorance I admit) and yet you seem blind as to how Jewish tradition enforces ritual and behavior in a way that is far from equal between men and women. It is surprising that you do not see any inequalities there.

The Temple was built before there even was a Talmud (at least in the way it has reached us), so the Tradition doesn't have much to do with it in its inception (or, at least, it was a different Tradition). Also, it was built when such a thing as a non-observant Jew was non-existent, so it's a bit anachronistic (and obvious) to say that it was built by believers. Please note that its builders, who cared about Tradition, also believed and practiced slavery, which at that time was part of Tradition. That has rightfully changed. To argue that the rest of Tradition is immutable just because it was not challenged until the Haskalah is not a very strong argument. It's, in fact, just an opinion, which you have of course every right to hold. If there are places on Earth were tradition can be enacted completely and in full force, it should be in the homes, religious schools, and shils and institutions of the Orthodox.

Ultimately, this is my issue: the three Haredim acted like pricks. I don't think they were forced to act by "the egos of certain disrespectful women", even less than a riot was in any way justified. The episode reminded me to the fury in the Muslim world raised by the Mohamed cartoons or some Jews visiting the Dome of the Rock.

670 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:44:14am

In fact, please let me make a few things more clear. There is a difference between being Jewish as a matter of being a part of the Jewish people and following the Jewish religion.

A non-observant Jew is certainly a Jew. However, by definition he does not practice the religion as given or defined for thousands of years. I am not talking about non-observant in terms of the chumra of the month club or in terms of having a different take on legal or ritual grey zones. I am not talking about that at all. I am also not saying that the non-observant Jew is less of a Jew or a person, G-d forbid, than an observant one.

I am however making a point of definition.

There are certain things that Jews believe and certain things that Jews do. If you do not believe these things you do not believe in Judaism, you believe in something else. If you do not practice these things, you are not practicing Judaism, you are practicing something else. This is a matter of religion, not heritage or nationality. A Jew who becomes a Buddhist is still a Jew. But one can hardly call his religious views Jewish.

By the same token, love it or hate it, agree with it or not, there are clear definitions of what Jews religiously, and as a religion, believe and do. These are clear things that everyone knows. For example, do not kid yourself that not eating kosher is being religiously Jewish. Do not kid yourself that not keeping Shabbos is being religiously Jewish. It is deciding that large and central parts of Judaism do not apply to you. What ever you do religiously is is whatever you do, however it is not Judaism by age old definition. That is your right, and I certainly do not believe that G-d will zot you for eating shrimp, but don't insult those who keep the Tradition by asserting you do too because you do not.

This is what I mean by disrespect. Disrespect goes both ways. I do not debate that many of my observant brethren look on non-observant Jews in horrible ways that are unfounded, unfair and just ignorant. However, the non-observant Jew, who can barely manage a prayer in Hebrew and could not even name all the holidays or tell you what they mean, let alone cracked a gemara, is hardly an expert on the faith. It really gets insulting listening to them rant about stuff they have no clue about means while taking on a false air of expertise. It is even more insulting to listen to them equate their on-observance with observance. They are not the same thing. This again does not mean that they are better or worse human beings or that I think they are more or less loved by G-d. I do not think that at all. I do however think that they have no clue what they pontificate about and a lot of arrogance about things they know nothing of.

671 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:50:21am

re: #669 mikhailtheplumber

no. They did not practice slavery like you think. Not at all. That is a very long discussion for another time. Respectfully, you are projecting a huge amount of crap onto the Tradition that is not there. I do not know why you hold something you clearly know so very little of in such contempt.

672 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:52:49am

re: #669 mikhailtheplumber

And yes those three Haredim acted like pricks by being deeply disrespectful of the rights and feelings of others, just like Reform Jews who think they get to impose non religious law on the center of the religion are also being pricks. It is disrespect in both cases.

673 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:56:50am

re: #670 ludwigvanquixote

. It really gets insulting listening to them rant about stuff they have no clue about means while taking on a false air of expertise. It is even more insulting to listen to them equate their non-observance with observance. They are not the same thing. This again does not mean that they are better or worse human beings or that I think they are more or less loved by G-d. I do not think that at all. I do however think that they have no clue what they pontificate about and a lot of arrogance about things they know nothing of.

Well, I don't want to butt in here, but I as an ex-Catholic have similar issues with some supposed practising Catholics (by which they mean, they attend Mass every Sunday) and yet they don't understand the central sacraments: they can't explain how Catholicism differs from Protestantism, for example. Yet they are quite certain they can lecture me on what it is to be a Catholic. Etc.
Observance and non-observance are not the same; and one can be an apostate yet still understand what it is to be observant better than those who maintain some purely formal outward signs of observance.

674 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:01:16am

re: #673 iceweasel

Well, I don't want to butt in here, but I as an ex-Catholic have similar issues with some supposed practising Catholics (by which they mean, they attend Mass every Sunday) and yet they don't understand the central sacraments: they can't explain how Catholicism differs from Protestantism, for example. Yet they are quite certain they can lecture me on what it is to be a Catholic. Etc.
Observance and non-observance are not the same; and one can be an apostate yet still understand what it is to be observant better than those who maintain some purely formal outward signs of observance.

Actually that is a really useful observation. The problem is not unique to Judaism at all. That is well said. The difference here though is that I am not just talking about Jews who are observant but Jerks. There are plenty who are good people too and who actually keep the mitzvot as well.

What offends me is that the Reform support types here think that observant Jews have no rights at the Holy places of Judaism. What offends me more is the clear undertone that they are somehow all backwards and should be discounted and have less rights than the somehow more enlightened reform Jews. This is clear form equating the Tradition to slavery and all sorts of things from the American South... said in a reasonable tone, as if it were true, when it simply is not and the interlocutor has no clue at all what the actual Tradition is or says.

675 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:08:10am

re: #674 ludwigvanquixote

Actually that is a really useful observation. The problem is not unique to Judaism at all. That is well said. The difference here though is that I am not just talking about Jews who are observant but Jerks. There are plenty who are good people too and who actually keep the mitzvot as well.

What offends me is that the Reform support types here think that observant Jews have no rights at the Holy places of Judaism. What offends me more is the clear undertone that they are somehow all backwards and should be discounted and have less rights than the somehow more enlightened reform Jews. This is clear form equating the Tradition to slavery and all sorts of things from the American South... said in a reasonable tone, as if it were true, when it simply is not and the interlocutor has no clue at all what the actual Tradition is or says.

I could argue that the same happens within Catholicism. I can't speak about Judaism, lacking the background to do so in any intelligent informed way -- but you do also get pricks in Catholicism insisting that their way is correct, while they lack any genuine knowledge of what Catholic theology says or entails. Sometimes this is the 'traditionalist' Catholics and sometimes not.

676 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:16:28am

re: #675 iceweasel

I could argue that the same happens within Catholicism. I can't speak about Judaism, lacking the background to do so in any intelligent informed way -- but you do also get pricks in Catholicism insisting that their way is correct, while they lack any genuine knowledge of what Catholic theology says or entails. Sometimes this is the 'traditionalist' Catholics and sometimes not.

We are actually talking about multiple different problems and conflating them.

For both religions:

There is the total jerk who makes a show of religiosity while bringing down the whole faith through being a prick in any number of self serving ways.

There is also the total arrogant jerk who thinks they know it all about the religion and say all manner of hateful things about it, even though they never really learned it and don't know a damn thing about it. They project all manner of falsehoods onto it. An example would be the "clear power imbalance between Jewish men and women in prayer that I am somehow blind to" when the Tradition if anything favors women. There are things that certain observant Jews do that are in my opinion terrible for women - and there are also lots of arguments within the Law for why they should not do it that way, but prayer is not one of them. The central Jewish women's issue with certain sets of observant Jews who fall into class one is agunot. Certain Haredi sects views on tsniut also get way out of hand. I even mentioned that, but my interlocutor doesn't even know what that is.

Then there is the person who is observant but respectful of others.

Then there is the person who is not observant but still respects the right of others to have respect if they keep the Tradition.

I have no beef with categories three and four. One and two are obnoxious.

677 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:23:59am

Oh, I thought we were talking only about 1 and 2!
Yeah, obnoxious.
Also worse. 2 gets my special hate somehow.

678 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:26:05am

re: #677 iceweasel

Oh, I thought we were talking only about 1 and 2!
Yeah, obnoxious.
Also worse. 2 gets my special hate somehow.

I hear that. However the case of case one would be those three Haredi who pushed through the square. They were pretty wretched too. The problem with people in case two is they think everyone who is into the Tradition must somehow fall into case one or be otherwise mentally deficient.

679 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:26:33am

re: #677 iceweasel

And there is nothing wrong case three or four at all.

680 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:27:23am

re: #679 ludwigvanquixote

And there is nothing wrong case three or four at all.

Right, of course.

681 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:28:06am

re: #678 ludwigvanquixote

I hear that. However the case of case one would be those three Haredi who pushed through the square. They were pretty wretched too. The problem with people in case two is they think everyone who is into the Tradition must somehow fall into case one or be otherwise mentally deficient.

Case 2 is worse and I can make a case for why. BRB

682 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:47:49am

re: #678 ludwigvanquixote

I hear that. However the case of case one would be those three Haredi who pushed through the square. They were pretty wretched too. The problem with people in case two is they think everyone who is into the Tradition must somehow fall into case one or be otherwise mentally deficient.

Yes. They're case 1 and they're wretched. But this is case 2 on your analysis:

There is also the total arrogant jerk who thinks they know it all about the religion and say all manner of hateful things about it, even though they never really learned it and don't know a damn thing about it. They project all manner of falsehoods onto it. An example would be the "clear power imbalance between Jewish men and women in prayer that I am somehow blind to" when the Tradition if anything favors women. There are things that certain observant Jews do that are in my opinion terrible for women - and there are also lots of arguments within the Law for why they should not do it that way, but prayer is not one of them. The central Jewish women's issue with certain sets of observant Jews who fall into class one is agunot. Certain Haredi sects views on tsniut also get way out of hand. I even mentioned that, but my interlocutor doesn't even know what that is.

I would argue that case 2 is worse, because it isn't merely a matter of some jerk making a show of outward piety while being a prick in self serving ways. (your case 1)

2, as you've outlined it, is about someone who is being an "total arrogant jerk who thinks they know it all about the religion and say all manner of hateful things about it, even though they never really learned it and don't know a damn thing about it. They project all manner of falsehoods onto it."

That's someone who is corrupting the faith.
Case 1 is some selfserving prick; case 2 is someone who is harming the faith by corrupting its doctrines and projecting their corrupted twisted version as true.

Short version.

683 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:52:01am

re: #682 iceweasel

I would argue that case 2 is worse, because it isn't merely a matter of some jerk making a show of outward piety while being a prick in self serving ways. (your case 1)

2, as you've outlined it, is about someone who is being an "total arrogant jerk who thinks they know it all about the religion and say all manner of hateful things about it, even though they never really learned it and don't know a damn thing about it. They project all manner of falsehoods onto it."

That's someone who is corrupting the faith.
Case 1 is some selfserving prick; case 2 is someone who is harming the faith by corrupting its doctrines and projecting their corrupted twisted version as true.

Short version.

That is true. However, the one who makes an outward show of being a part of the faith while acting contrary toit, not only corrupts the faith but drives even more people away and gives ammunition for the people in case two.

Further, the people in case two have the excuse of not knowing any better. They should have the humility to know what they do not know, however, the one in case one does not even have that excuse.

I am going to have to go with case one being the worst. The outwardly righteous who leads others astray from the inside is always more harshly judged than the ignorant one who does not know better.

684 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:52:51am

re: #682 iceweasel

BTW I'm putting all that in very Catholic terms I think: harming the faith, corrupting the doctrine. But I think the sensibility applies.

685 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:53:51am

re: #682 iceweasel

IN fact here is an example of that principle... Is it a big deal if the guy down the street cheats on his wife? Clearly it is wrong. Is it more of a big deal if the preacher does it?

It is the added element of hypocrisy from one who is supposed to be better than that that compounds a sin with a betrayal.

686 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:54:20am

re: #684 iceweasel

BTW I'm putting all that in very Catholic terms I think: harming the faith, corrupting the doctrine. But I think the sensibility applies.

It does for certain. I am taking it in terms of which case corrupts the faith more.

687 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:56:38am

re: #683 ludwigvanquixote

That is true. However, the one who makes an outward show of being a part of the faith while acting contrary toit, not only corrupts the faith but drives even more people away and gives ammunition for the people in case two.

Further, the people in case two have the excuse of not knowing any better. They should have the humility to know what they do not know, however, the one in case one does not even have that excuse.

I am going to have to go with case one being the worst. The outwardly righteous who leads others astray from the inside is always more harshly judged than the ignorant one who does not know better.

Oh i read your cases differently: the first is merely ignorant in the sense of not knowing better; the second is willfully ignorant, in a position where he or she should know better.
Both do tremendous harm and I don't excuse either.

Speaking of which, I finally read the whole of the threads from the other night-- there's a few people here whom I have unalterably changed my opinion of, and to whom I will now never speak.

688 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:58:45am

re: #687 iceweasel

Oh i read your cases differently: the first is merely ignorant in the sense of not knowing better; the second is willfully ignorant, in a position where he or she should know better.
Both do tremendous harm and I don't excuse either.

Speaking of which, I finally read the whole of the threads from the other night-- there's a few people here whom I have unalterably changed my opinion of, and to whom I will now never speak.

Ohh me too and for certain. I lost it. There is no doubt, but I feel I was pushed. To be fair, It turned out ok in the end I think. Those people know who they are and well to hell with them.

689 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:00:32am

re: #687 iceweasel

Oh i read your cases differently: the first is merely ignorant in the sense of not knowing better; the second is willfully ignorant, in a position where he or she should know better.
Both do tremendous harm and I don't excuse either.

Actually, It think that is reversed from what I said. The "observant" one who is supposed to be just and honest etc... but isn't makes the whole religion seem ugly as an example of that religion and further the religion says "don't do thopse things!" and they know it.

Case two has no idea what the religion really does or does not say.

690 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:02:24am

re: #688 ludwigvanquixote

Ohh me too and for certain. I lost it. There is no doubt, but I feel I was pushed. To be fair, It turned out ok in the end I think. Those people know who they are and well to hell with them.

You were pushed and it was deliberate. I wrote CJ later about that and how it had been ongoing for weeks.

Then I read every single comment. Oh yeah.
For me, I'll never speak to them again.

691 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:04:26am

re: #690 iceweasel

You were pushed and it was deliberate. I wrote CJ later about that and how it had been ongoing for weeks.

Then I read every single comment. Oh yeah.
For me, I'll never speak to them again.

What can I say... If you are taking flak, you are over the target.

692 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:05:15am

re: #690 iceweasel

You were pushed and it was deliberate. I wrote CJ later about that and how it had been ongoing for weeks.

Then I read every single comment. Oh yeah.
For me, I'll never speak to them again.

But seriously, thank you for your support. You've been a friend and I do appreciate it.

693 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:05:27am

re: #689 ludwigvanquixote

Actually, It think that is reversed from what I said. The "observant" one who is supposed to be just and honest etc... but isn't makes the whole religion seem ugly as an example of that religion and further the religion says "don't do thopse things!" and they know it.

Case two has no idea what the religion really does or does not say.

OK but I disagree. This is possibly a difference in our theological backgrounds.
Make no mistake, I despise those who make an outward show of piety but are hypocrites.
I hate people who distort the teachings more.

694 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:06:40am

re: #691 LudwigVanQuixote

What can I say... If you are taking flak, you are over the target.

They just hate you for being smarter than they, being right, and not backing down. Simple as that.

695 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:07:29am

re: #693 iceweasel

OK but I disagree. This is possibly a difference in our theological backgrounds.
Make no mistake, I despise those who make an outward show of piety but are hypocrites.
I hate people who distort the teachings more.

That is perfectly fair, but of course they both do. For instance, in the case of the three Haredim that pushed through the square, do you think for a moment that Jewish Law would be ok with their behaviour - yet as "pious" Jews, they taught the world that such things are what pious Jews do.

696 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:08:23am

re: #694 iceweasel

They just hate you for being smarter than they, being right, and not backing down. Simple as that.

Now now... that will go to my head... but thank you from the bottom of my heart.

697 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:13:50am

re: #694 iceweasel

They just hate you for being smarter than they, being right, and not backing down. Simple as that.

BUt one thing which is a serious new policy is that I will no longer feel any shame at calling the stupid things that are falsely claimed stupid. It is seriously not right to let an anti-science moron believe falsely that his wrong and anti-science views are somehow equal to the truth. We are losing the fight by giving them the false legitimacy of undeserved equality.

If someone claimed that 2+2 were 37, they would be dismissed out of hand. This is really no different, only people do not know physics the way they know arithmetic.

It is no different than dealing with a flat Earther. They need to be laughed at and not given false respect they do not deserve. They have no rights in the conversation other than to learn the science and ask pertinent questions. The bad guys only exist by creating a flase controversy. They do this by bing falsely seen as having equally legitimate but different views.

698 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:18:05am

re: #696 LudwigVanQuixote

Now now... that will go to my head... but thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Totally serious. It was very clear. Always had been, but that left no doubt.

re: #695 LudwigVanQuixote

That is perfectly fair, but of course they both do. For instance, in the case of the three Haredim that pushed through the square, do you think for a moment that Jewish Law would be ok with their behaviour - yet as "pious" Jews, they taught the world that such things are what pious Jews do.

Well-- i was letting you off easy, in that I didn't think your initial 4 cases really carved out the areas. :) But i deleted what I had written and ran with your taxonomy.
I do wonder if there is a difference here about religion-- specifically, Catholicism is weird in that it has a pope who is supposed to have papal infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra, but of course popes can and contradict each other on matters ex cathedra. So Catholicism is always in flux (despite being rigid) dependent on the will of an individual-- the pope-- in a way Judaism is not.
Pope benedict wants to bring back the latin mass for example. That's dark ages talk. The move away from it was precisely so the people could undertand what was being said, and not merely have to look at pretty windows or statues to explain it to them- or rely on a priest to tell them what the Bible said.
Why move back to it? People now will just be muttering Kee-Ree Ah Lay-Suhn rather than Lord Have Mercy or Kyrie Elesion.

699 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:21:27am

re: #697 LudwigVanQuixote


It is no different than dealing with a flat Earther. They need to be laughed at and not given false respect they do not deserve. They have no rights in the conversation other than to learn the science and ask pertinent questions. The bad guys only exist by creating a flase controversy. They do this by bing falsely seen as having equally legitimate but different views.

Yes, I got shit here early on for saying "That is a lie" and linking to the info in question and explaining.
Waah, waah, why do you have to call it a lie?
Because it is.
I won't call someone a liar unless I know they're knowingly spouting lies,-- but lies are lies and need to be called such.

700 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:36:30am

re: #699 iceweasel

Yes, I got shit here early on for saying "That is a lie" and linking to the info in question and explaining.
Waah, waah, why do you have to call it a lie?
Because it is.
I won't call someone a liar unless I know they're knowingly spouting lies,-- but lies are lies and need to be called such.

Oh I think the deniers have of all stripes have to know that on some level they are spouting lies. Consider the argument that the propaganda for starting the Iraq war was something other than a nuclear threat... Those people were here in the same country we were and heard the same broadcasts and speeches from the Bush administration. Surely on some level they know they are stretching things really thin.

As to the science deniers, a guy like my least favorite one, you know who I mean, has to know that thermometers existed before 1850 for instance and that claiming that no reliable temp data at all existed before then had to be untrue.

NO they are lying and they know it. Further someone who is telling lies, is by definition a liar whether they know it or not. The difference is only one of malice, which I agree is a big difference, but not the point really when it comes to science or history. It affects whether I can forgive them or not, but not the essential falsehoods they tell.

As to the pope, no we never had anything like that unless you go back to Moses himself.

We are a debating tradition.

What people miss though is that sometimes the debates get settled. In teh case of something like cross dressing, it was hashed and rehashed up and down in more excruciating detail than I can easily relate millenia ago.

701 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:43:19am

re: #698 iceweasel

Ohh and thank you for going along with my taxonomy. If you feel that there are better ways to differentiate the classes I am certainly amenable to that. I was just trying to be clear about what I meant in the other discussion.

702 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:43:48am

re: #700 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh I think the deniers have of all stripes have to know that on some level they are spouting lies. Consider the argument that the propaganda for starting the Iraq war was something other than a nuclear threat... Those people were here in the same country we were and heard the same broadcasts and speeches from the Bush administration. Surely on some level they know they are stretching things really thin..

Some of them know and some of them don't. Willfully ignorant applies in many cases, like not looking at links they're given. These were the same ones who were also willfully ignorant at the time and kept screaming at anyone with questions that they were antiamerican, supporting terrorists, and commiting treason-- because they had questions.

Sudden amnesia about why we went to Iraq is imo willfully ignorant, as is denial about torture. Same with Halliburton/rape/Franken amendment.
AGW, I honestly think that many are too fucking stupid to understand the data even when it's given to them.

703 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:48:57am

re: #702 iceweasel

Some of them know and some of them don't. Willfully ignorant applies in many cases, like not looking at links they're given. These were the same ones who were also willfully ignorant at the time and kept screaming at anyone with questions that they were antiamerican, supporting terrorists, and commiting treason-- because they had questions.

Sudden amnesia about why we went to Iraq is imo willfully ignorant, as is denial about torture. Same with Halliburton/rape/Franken amendment.
AGW, I honestly think that many are too fucking stupid to understand the data even when it's given to them.

Interesting... this is where my moral compass kicks in and I find a source of outrage. If someone were to claim that black holes do not exist because GR does not exist and they denied GR, I would try to explain the physics to them, but it really would not bother me.

Denying AGW ultimately gets people killed - by the billions.

Being blind to torture destroys the justice of our system.

Willfully forgetting that lying to start a war means that they will support lies that kill thousands.

There are consequences for people not getting these things in a democracy that are immediate and very catastrophic. If they can't believe in GR, oh well... it really really does not matter as much.

704 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:57:49am

re: #703 LudwigVanQuixote

Interesting... this is where my moral compass kicks in and I find a source of outrage. If someone were to claim that black holes do not exist because GR does not exist and they denied GR, I would try to explain the physics to them, but it really would not bother me.

Denying AGW ultimately gets people killed - by the billions.

Being blind to torture destroys the justice of our system.

Willfully forgetting that lying to start a war means that they will support lies that kill thousands.

There are consequences for people not getting these things in a democracy that are immediate and very catastrophic. If they can't believe in GR, oh well... it really really does not matter as much.


No, I think we're agreeing. I find the others outrageous and indefensible.
I think it's possible that someone is mulishly unwilling and also genuinely too unintelligent to understand the evidence for AGW.
Look, we're talking here about a population that also believes in ghosts, denies evolution, wants to ban Anne Frank's diary in schools (oh yeah, I posted that a couple of days ago) because it is too 'sexually explicit', --- dumb people.

705 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:58:39am

Seriously, you realize that we are losing the fight with Agw and that the clock is ticking. Copenhagen was a failure for the entire human race. Future histories will curse us for it.

You realize that the GOP has morphed into something truly terrible and they are gaining an awful traction. In the mean time, the complacent and disorganized Dems fiddle while Rome burns.

Future GOP wins assure that nothing will be done about AGW. Get it clear and say it loud. We are talking about America shutting down.

Of course from a biblical point of view, and G-d's judgement, don't kid yourself that we don't have it coming - particularly in the America that they would build.

706 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:01:44am

re: #705 LudwigVanQuixote

Get it clear and say it loud. We are talking about America shutting down.


And the whole world.
Yes.
I hate them for it, frankly. That's why lies should be called lies. They have to be called out.

707 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:02:33am

re: #704 iceweasel

No, I think we're agreeing. I find the others outrageous and indefensible.
I think it's possible that someone is mulishly unwilling and also genuinely too unintelligent to understand the evidence for AGW.
Look, we're talking here about a population that also believes in ghosts, denies evolution, wants to ban Anne Frank's diary in schools (oh yeah, I posted that a couple of days ago) because it is too 'sexually explicit', --- dumb people.

I hear you.

I did not know they did not like Anne Frank...Dear Lord... the part where she talks about growing up and becoming a woman? That is a moving and touching passage...

However, I repeat, we are living in a democracy and unless those same stupid people are defeated, and soon, we loose everything down the road.

There is no Walden anymore. We can not be Thoreau and get away from it all. There is no place to go. We have no choice but to engage the morons we can engage and silence the others by inoculating the average person from their stupidity.

We can not do that by playing nice or pleading with the stupid.

708 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:02:38am

re: #705 LudwigVanQuixote


Of course from a biblical point of view, and G-d's judgement, don't kid yourself that we don't have it coming - particularly in the America that they would build.

God gave Noah the rainbow sign--
No more water, the fire next time.

709 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:04:18am

re: #708 iceweasel

God gave Noah the rainbow sign--
No more water, the fire next time.

That's right. Like I said earlier, anyone who thinks that G-d would not allow us to suffer the consequences of our own stupidity has never read the bible or looked at history.

710 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:05:55am

re: #709 LudwigVanQuixote

That's right. Like I said earlier, anyone who thinks that G-d would not allow us to suffer the consequences of our own stupidity has never read the bible or looked at history.

They think the Rock of Ages will have a cleft for them, and not for you nor me.

711 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:09:27am

re: #710 iceweasel

They think the Rock of Ages will have a cleft for them, and not for you nor me.

Well that too. They seem to miss that G-d has the disturbing habit of killing the righteous as well as the guilty. They also miss that G-d has a real issue about the falsely righteous as well.

I mean seriously - the Dominioinists and the Conservapedia types with their "free market" Christianity? How can anyone even remotely aquainted with an Abrahamic tradition possible think that is anything other than pure evil? They don't even think so themselves, that is why they are editing the Bible, and I suppose that is part of why you hated case two more... However, those people also claim to be the pious ones so they are an odd mix of case two and case one.

712 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:18:39am

re: #711 LudwigVanQuixote

Well that too. They seem to miss that G-d has the disturbing habit of killing the righteous as well as the guilty. They also miss that G-d has a real issue about the falsely righteous as well.

I mean seriously - the Dominioinists and the Conservapedia types with their "free market" Christianity? How can anyone even remotely aquainted with an Abrahamic tradition possible think that is anything other than pure evil? They don't even think so themselves, that is why they are editing the Bible, and I suppose that is part of why you hated case two more... However, those people also claim to be the pious ones so they are an odd mix of case two and case one.


Right, that was my issue-- I don;t like the split between 1 and 2, I think we have possibly more cases there, and also 1 & 2 have stuff in common.

Yes, these people think they are select. I mean selected in the Calvinist sense, which is totally unlike Judaism or other religions, and they also have the peculiarly american confidence that they just 'have' grace personally. Preordained.

Anne Frank story:
School system in Va. won't teach version of Anne Frank book

Culpeper County public school officials have decided to stop assigning a version of Anne Frank's diary, one of the most enduring symbols of the atrocities of the Nazi regime, after a parent complained that the book includes sexually explicit material and homosexual themes.

The ALA has documented only six challenges to "The Diary of Anne Frank" since it began monitoring formal written complaints to remove or restrict books in 1990. Most of the concerns were about sexually explicit material, Maycock said. One record dating to 1983 from an Alabama textbook committee said the book was "a real downer" and called for its rejection from schools.

713 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:28:05am

re: #712 iceweasel

That is truly repugnant. I can not fathom the ignorance of not liking the book on such stupid grounds or the cowardice of our "educators." If we had a proper education system the people who made that call out of hand would be fired for their gross unsuitability to the job.

The interesting and Calvinist theme you are referring to in a uniquely American way also refers to the odd notion that parents have a right to their own facts. That is not the purpose of public education. I suppose in an odd way the Religious Right deeply understands this and as such of necessity, has always been so anti-education. It takes a special type of brain washing to indoctrinate to that level and it does not flourish well in an educated society or a culture of questioning.

In this way it is a deep and painful parallel to Bin Laden and his gang.

Book burners need to be stopped. Always. While I agree there is such a thing as age appropriate material, there is no such thing as material which needs to be banned.

Of course the anti-evolutin and anti AGW crowd will shamelessly argue that is what has happened to them. ON the contrary again. IN a proper society, one would sped say twenty minutes in science class on examples of BS that are not science. I have always used ID as an example of what science is not in my classes.

714 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:29:58am

re: #713 LudwigVanQuixote

That is truly repugnant. I can not fathom the ignorance of not liking the book on such stupid grounds or the cowardice of our "educators." If we had a proper education system the people who made that call out of hand would be fired for their gross unsuitability to the job.

The interesting and Calvinist theme you are referring to in a uniquely American way also refers to the odd notion that parents have a right to their own facts. That is not the purpose of public education. I suppose in an odd way the Religious Right deeply understands this and as such of necessity, has always been so anti-education. It takes a special type of brain washing to indoctrinate to that level and it does not flourish well in an educated society or a culture of questioning.

In this way it is a deep and painful parallel to Bin Laden and his gang.

Book burners need to be stopped. Always. While I agree there is such a thing as age appropriate material, there is no such thing as material which needs to be banned.

Of course the anti-evolutin and anti AGW crowd will shamelessly argue that is what has happened to them. ON the contrary again. IN a proper society, one would sped say twenty minutes in science class on examples of BS that are not science. I have always used ID as an example of what science is not in my classes.

Clarification - with an obvious exception for things like snuff films or the presentation of falsehoods out of context of their being false.

715 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:30:27am

re: #711 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm very serious when I say that Dominionists and others hew to a Calvinistic doctrine of 'double predestination': they believe (and act as if) God chose beforehand who would be saved and damned, that nothing any person does changes that determination, AND they also believe that America!! and themselves (whoever 'they' are, whatever Christian denomination they are,) know with unshakeable confidence that they are selected.

This paragraph I just wrote is the key to undertanding American theocrats.
It's also a book, I'm sure, but no doubt there are dissertations in the works. Probably a book or two already written.

Someone should rewrite de Tocqueville on these lines and call it Theocracy in America.

716 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:34:32am

re: #715 iceweasel

I'm very serious when I say that Dominionists and others hew to a Calvinistic doctrine of 'double predestination': they believe (and act as if) God chose beforehand who would be saved and damned, that nothing any person does changes that determination, AND they also believe that America!! and themselves (whoever 'they' are, whatever Christian denomination they are,) know with unshakeable confidence that they are selected.

This paragraph I just wrote is the key to undertanding American theocrats.
It's also a book, I'm sure, but no doubt there are dissertations in the works. Probably a book or two already written.

Someone should rewrite de Tocqueville on these lines and call it Theocracy in America.

Ohh I completely hear your point and see it in our history and politics. The only good news about it though is that none of the Founding Fathers - at least none of the important ones - really saw it that way.

There have always been two Americas in that sense. There is the America that thinks that American ideals are good and just ones that apply to everyone. Then there are those who think that American ideals apply only to them - when convenient to notice. This has always been the case.

At the end of the day the GOP is the party of the latter case. It has been for sometime, but the trend has accelerated of late and the strain has become more virulent.

717 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:38:50am

re: #716 LudwigVanQuixote


At the end of the day the GOP is the party of the latter case. It has been for sometime, but the trend has accelerated of late and the strain has become more virulent.

Totally.
I can't remember if we talked about this before, but lately I've been telling everyone to read Umberto Eco's 1995 (ish?) essay Eternal Fascism.
It's very very short and it sums up the tea parties and so much more.
You probably already know it, but i keep finding it more useful every time I reread it.

718 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:43:47am

re: #717 iceweasel

Totally.
I can't remember if we talked about this before, but lately I've been telling everyone to read Umberto Eco's 1995 (ish?) essay Eternal Fascism.
It's very very short and it sums up the tea parties and so much more.
You probably already know it, but i keep finding it more useful every time I reread it.

Of course you are correct again, and that is a fabulous reference and essay. I am particularly struck the notion that they hate science but love tanks...

It seems so apropos to this thread.

In some sense that essay could be re-titled 14 forms of destructive mob behaviours in which the stupid are exploited through some sort of Jungian Shadow world.

719 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:46:41am

re: #716 LudwigVanQuixote

BTW, I have to go back and say from a purely philosophical or logical point this maddens me: the very same people who say "our best science is wrong, scientists are shills!" about AGW, will seamlessly switch to a position of "If anything ever does go wrong science will just fix it."--
Seriously, which is it? Total disrespect for and shitting on scientists and scientific consensus, or child-like faith in their magik powers to wave a wand at the last minute? It's like science is the Daddy they hate and must rebel against but ultimately believe he'll make Mother Nature kiss the booboo and it will magikly heal on the spot. WTF?

720 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:51:10am

re: #718 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course you are correct again, and that is a fabulous reference and essay. I am particularly struck the notion that they hate science but love tanks...

It seems so apropos to this thread.

In some sense that essay could be re-titled 14 forms of destructive mob behaviours in which the stupid are exploited through some sort of Jungian Shadow world.

Yes. Probably why I've recently been linking it so much here. heh.

721 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:01:32am

re: #719 iceweasel

Well that is the joy of being in science... You are an elite egghead to be disrespected if the science you bring is inconvenient or unpopular, but the great scientist when you say something they want to hear or are needed.

It is the intellectual parallel on the low brow right to what the military is to the low brow left. The military is that horrible dog that you kick around in times of peace but are really happy for when needed.

God forbid that the scientist is smarter than you.. that rejects your comfortable sense of false superiority earned for free. But everyone begs the doctor at the end for a miracle. And everyone begs the scientist for one when they need one as well.

With Agw, we see the science world saying that if we blow it, we really have blown it, and there will be nothing we can do. The public can not accept that... American ingenuity, which is different from science of course, will always win out. Those eggheads will figure it out for us... That is why we hire them.

Damn I reminded of Mozart quipping about eating with the servants below the butler, but above the salt.

Scientists take this lying down as well. We are taught not to be arrogant or proud. It is shameful to be too smart. We should be good little dogs in our proper places and serve the real masters of the universe who got MBAs and other bullshit degrees. I for one am totally sick of it.

We do something that most of the world can not do because of our talents. I do not begrudge the Olympic swimmer for being able to swim past me like a torpedo. No one should begrudge the scientist for actually being smarter and better educated - as well as actually trained to figure new things out.

722 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:02:18am

re: #718 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course you are correct again, and that is a fabulous reference and essay. I am particularly struck the notion that they hate science but love tanks...

Yes. They hate science and the Enlightenment and Enlightenment values, (genuine inquiry, the genuine scientific mind or process)-- but worship technology.Despise modernity and the Modern mind (and here we mean Modern Era, i.e., Enlightenment)-- worship certain products, not all, of that thinking.

Seriously, that essay rocks. It's the Republican hive-mind as of now.

723 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:03:25am

re: #722 iceweasel

Yes. They hate science and the Enlightenment and Enlightenment values, (genuine inquiry, the genuine scientific mind or process)-- but worship technology.Despise modernity and the Modern mind (and here we mean Modern Era, i.e., Enlightenment)-- worship certain products, not all, of that thinking.

Seriously, that essay rocks. It's the Republican hive-mind as of now.

In all ways. And I repeat, the GOP has become simply evil. We should not be ashamed of using the proper word. Evil is evil.

724 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:05:01am

re: #721 LudwigVanQuixote


-------------- take this lying down as well. We are taught not to be arrogant or proud. It is shameful to be too smart. We should be good little dogs in our proper places and serve the real masters of the universe who got MBAs and other bullshit degrees. I for one am totally sick of it.

Well, welcome to the world of women, my friend!

(not to distract or detract from your real points, but I must say this leaped out at me).

725 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:08:04am

re: #723 LudwigVanQuixote

In all ways. And I repeat, the GOP has become simply evil. We should not be ashamed of using the proper word. Evil is evil.

hey, the only reason I wasn't in there with you on that one was having a cold.
yep.
It's a moral imperative to call evil by its name when we find it. And the GOP as it is now-- is evil. Nothing is to be gained by calling it other names.

726 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:09:19am

re: #724 iceweasel

Well, welcome to the world of women, my friend!

(not to distract or detract from your real points, but I must say this leaped out at me).

Actually I thought that as I wrote what I did. Please do not think I am insensitive to that awful fact. Interestingly enough, I strongly believe that as more women enter science and make names for themselves they will more and more face the more common contempt of just being smart faced in this culture as opposed to being smart women who are getting "uppity." It is hard to argue with the woman who cured a disease or invented something useful.. or at least it will get harder and harder as there are more and more examples.

I despise the view that cuts half the talent out of the picture. It is unjust, and self destructive as well.

727 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:09:24am

Good morning...this was the only remotely live thread I could find...

728 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:10:34am

re: #727 PT Barnum

Good morning...this was the only remotely live thread I could find...

Hey PT! LVQ and I have been at it for hours, please do join in. Welcome.

729 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:10:46am

By the way ice thanks for all the consistent updings...I thank you and my karma thanks you...I'd like to think it's my consistent requests for people to chill the hell out, but I'm probably just a "project" :)

730 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:10:58am

re: #727 PT Barnum

Good morning...this was the only remotely live thread I could find...

Well there is quite a conversation going... I think you may have a bit to read in order to catch up.

731 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:11:29am

I can't stay long...I gotta go to work in 4 minutes..70 mile drive in iowa winter ugh..

732 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:12:54am

re: #726 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually I thought that as I wrote what I did. Please do not think I am insensitive to that awful fact. Interestingly enough, I strongly believe that as more women enter science and make names for themselves they will more and more face the more common contempt of just being smart faced in this culture as opposed to being smart women who are getting "uppity." It is hard to argue with the woman who cured a disease or invented something useful.. or at least it will get harder and harder as there are more and more examples.

I despise the view that cuts half the talent out of the picture. It is unjust, and self destructive as well.

No, I know you of all people are in no way insensitive to that. At all!
I was sort of making a dark joke there.
Lots of issues need to be changed though and it is in no means only in the sciences. Sorry to distract from the discussion.

733 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:13:12am

re: #731 PT Barnum

I can't stay long...I gotta go to work in 4 minutes..70 mile drive in iowa winter ugh..

Well the thread will still be hear. This is actually one of the most cool convos I've had in a while.

734 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:13:12am

It sounds like we're back to defining evil...is that right?

735 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:13:37am

re: #730 LudwigVanQuixote

Well there is quite a conversation going... I think you may have a bit to read in order to catch up.

heh, yes, lots!

736 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:13:54am

re: #732 iceweasel

No, I know you of all people are in no way insensitive to that. At all!
I was sort of making a dark joke there.
Lots of issues need to be changed though and it is in no means only in the sciences. Sorry to distract from the discussion.

You did not distract at all... Please it was a valid and well posed point. It was also a very good parallel.

737 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:15:00am

re: #734 PT Barnum

It sounds like we're back to defining evil...is that right?

No, that thread got highjacked by various people feigning offense.

Although I would dearly love to have that convo with LVQ soon..

738 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:15:03am

re: #734 PT Barnum

It sounds like we're back to defining evil...is that right?

No not really at all. We started out with defining ways to destroy faith and the nature of tradition and morphed into a whole denial of reality conversation coupled with the role of science and history in an enlightened society.

739 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:16:49am

re: #737 iceweasel

No, that thread got highjacked by various people feigning offense.

Although I would dearly love to have that convo with LVQ soon..

Yes, that will be fun. However, I rather purposefully did not try to define evil because I really do not want to have that convo for real with most of the people here. There are a few lizards, you are one of them who could actually have the conversation well. The rest would be freshman dorm room debating. I did that when I was 18. I don't need to do it again.

740 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:16:55am

Evil in my mind is nothing more than selfishness writ large.re: #737 iceweasel

No, that thread got highjacked by various people feigning offense.

Although I would dearly love to have that convo with LVQ soon..

I may have been one of them, but I thought LVQ was a little over the top...in terms of broad brushing the whole thing.

I think there are two big factors to evil in the world:

1) Ignorance of other people's feelings and needs
2) Apathy toward same.

741 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:17:53am

re: #729 PT Barnum

By the way ice thanks for all the consistent updings...I thank you and my karma thanks you...I'd like to think it's my consistent requests for people to chill the hell out, but I'm probably just a "project" :)

Hey no prob, I'm superliberal with updings and you say many good things.
The requests for people to calm down are also very appreciated.

742 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:18:02am

re: #740 PT Barnum

Evil in my mind is nothing more than selfishness writ large.

I may have been one of them, but I thought LVQ was a little over the top...in terms of broad brushing the whole thing.

I think there are two big factors to evil in the world:

1) Ignorance of other people's feelings and needs
2) Apathy toward same.

OK so if you follow those definitions, which I agree with for the most part, what does that do for the GOP's main party planks and messages of racism, homophobia and anti-womens rights?

743 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:19:23am

re: #740 PT Barnum

Evil in my mind is nothing more than selfishness writ large.

I may have been one of them, but I thought LVQ was a little over the top...in terms of broad brushing the whole thing.

I think there are two big factors to evil in the world:

1) Ignorance of other people's feelings and needs
2) Apathy toward same.

There is a tradition that says all evil is essentially selfishness.
I'd agree with you about apathy about that ignorance being major.

744 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:21:25am

re: #742 LudwigVanQuixote

The problem is that if I don't also want to be evil, I have to consider their concerns as well, even if I don't agree with them.

The GOP right now is being held captive by the Theocons, as the GOP was losing elections prior to the Theocons coming on board. Think about it, if the Theocons weren't part of the GOP, they might have to actually get votes based on their ideas for policy instead of stirring up the culture wars.

I don't think the problem is the GOP, it's the Theocons they've been sleeping with for the last 30 years.

745 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:22:53am

re: #744 PT Barnum

The problem is that if I don't also want to be evil, I have to consider their concerns as well, even if I don't agree with them.

The GOP right now is being held captive by the Theocons, as the GOP was losing elections prior to the Theocons coming on board. Think about it, if the Theocons weren't part of the GOP, they might have to actually get votes based on their ideas for policy instead of stirring up the culture wars.

I don't think the problem is the GOP, it's the Theocons they've been sleeping with for the last 30 years.

OK that is fair, but it it is also a dodge. The GOP has been very good at purging and marginalizing non theocons. These days the theocons are the GOP. If that is true and you see them as evil, then you must conclude that the party has become evil.

746 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:23:02am

re: #742 LudwigVanQuixote

OK so if you follow those definitions, which I agree with for the most part, what does that do for the GOP's main party planks and messages of racism, homophobia and anti-womens rights?

1. they are ignorant about minorities, gay people, and women, because thet have virtually none in their party now
2. They are apathetic about redressing that ignorance, because they like a world in which white hetero men have all the power, and foolishly believe that's the path to regaining political power.

That was easy. This is why I don't like the prior definition of evil, see?
:-)

747 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:23:40am

Gotta go...stayed past my time already....Would like to continue this sometime. I think there are a lot of elements that could be explored on this topic...

It's too bad there isn't an option to have private conversations here...that way you could have a conversation without it being hijacked by the assholes.

748 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:25:27am

re: #744 PT Barnum

749 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:27:12am

re: #748 iceweasel

oops sorry, I deleted accidentally. Hang on an old thread sometime and you can have a nice conversation. :)
Good luck with your drive!

750 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:28:05am

re: #746 iceweasel

1. they are ignorant about minorities, gay people, and women, because thet have virtually none in their party now
2. They are apathetic about redressing that ignorance, because they like a world in which white hetero men have all the power, and foolishly believe that's the path to regaining political power.

That was easy. This is why I don't like the prior definition of evil, see?
:-)

That is also the other reason that I did not try to define it in a secular sense. It really does come down to a case by case call much like pornography. There are grey areas where most can see how the call could go the other way, and then there are clear things that only the delusional would deny are evil.

Really the whole Kantian box of worms that any attempt to go further, without invoking a deity gets deeply convoluted and ultimately only reinforces every interlocutor's particular starting views.

Now I am going to cheat. As a Jew, I define evil as that which is outside the will of G-d and I also say that man can never know the full will of G-d. This effectively produces the same result. We all muddle through as best we can with the tough calls, but we get the idea that gang raping infants in front of their mothers is clearly evil.

751 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:33:42am

re: #750 LudwigVanQuixote

That is also the other reason that I did not try to define it in a secular sense. It really does come down to a case by case call much like pornography. There are grey areas where most can see how the call could go the other way, and then there are clear things that only the delusional would deny are evil.

Really the whole Kantian box of worms that any attempt to go further, without invoking a deity gets deeply convoluted and ultimately only reinforces every interlocutor's particular starting views.

Now I am going to cheat. As a Jew, I define evil as that which is outside the will of G-d and I also say that man can never know the full will of G-d. This effectively produces the same result. We all muddle through as best we can with the tough calls, but we get the idea that gang raping infants in front of their mothers is clearly evil.

Whoa, what? No it doesn't at all.

Yoi can't escape one mystery by replacing with another. You can't pop in 'the will of God' and 'that which is outside's God's will" like the latter is some mystical black box.

This is Plato! The euthyphro.

752 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:41:45am

re: #751 iceweasel

Whoa, what? No it doesn't at all.

Yoi can't escape one mystery by replacing with another. You can't pop in 'the will of God' and 'that which is outside's God's will" like the latter is some mystical black box.

This is Plato! The euthyphro.

Actually yes I can. And no it is not Euthyphro. There is incidentally a fabulous fable about the prophet Jerimiah debating Plato, precisely because of Euthyphro in the Talmud. God loves good because it is good and he is good as the dource of all things. The fact that we can not encapsulate G-d in his entirety in our own minds, does not preclude faith that somehow G-d does know what is ultimately Good and just with a capital G and J. It just means that we have a limited perspective on it.

We go on to say, flat out, the we truly do not know why evil is allowed to prosper. I figure if we are going to do this we should get the Theodicy out of the way, because it will inevitably come up and the Talmud of course saw it coming.

The entire point of faith in that case become trusting in God that it does and can make sense even if we can not figure it out and that further, we do trust that His definitions of Good and Evil are the correct ones.

Now you can say you don't like that or that it is intellectually unsatisfying. You are correct that it replaces one mystery with another, however, I find mine more satisfying because it allows for a view that somehow it ultimately does make sense even if I don't get it.

I should also point out that Hebrew has no word for faith in the sense that Christians use it. We say emunah which means trust. There is a long and subtle discussion to be made about that, but in this context, I am sure you see it.

753 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:42:18am

re: #751 iceweasel

Whoa, what? No it doesn't at all.

Yoi can't escape one mystery by replacing with another. You can't pop in 'the will of God' and 'that which is outside's God's will" like the latter is some mystical black box.

This is Plato! The euthyphro.

Sorry, should say more -- I mean, is something holy or pious because the gods love it? Or do they love it because it IS holy or pious?

If the gods love it because it's already holy or pious, why do we need gods?
If they endow it with those qualities by loving it, couldnt they have loved others, say murder, and therefore make those holy or pious?
That's the euthyphro dilemma.

754 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:44:07am

re: #753 iceweasel

Sorry, should say more -- I mean, is something holy or pious because the gods love it? Or do they love it because it IS holy or pious?

If the gods love it because it's already holy or pious, why do we need gods?
If they endow it with those qualities by loving it, couldnt they have loved others, say murder, and therefore make those holy or pious?
That's the euthyphro dilemma.

I know that is what you are going for and like I said the Talmud addressed Euthyphro directly. God loves good because it is good, however as the source of all things and the creator of all, we conclude that His definitions are the only ones and further, we trust that his definition is the correct one.

755 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:46:33am

re: #752 LudwigVanQuixote


We go on to say, flat out, the we truly do not know why evil is allowed to prosper. I figure if we are going to do this we should get the Theodicy out of the way, because it will inevitably come up and the Talmud of course saw it coming.

Now you can say you don't like that or that it is intellectually unsatisfying. You are correct that it replaces one mystery with another, however, I find mine more satisfying because it allows for a view that somehow it ultimately does make sense even if I don't get it.

I should also point out that Hebrew has no word for faith in the sense that Christians use it. We say emunah which means trust. There is a long and subtle discussion to be made about that, but in this context, I am sure you see it.

Well, theodicy is another issue.
And if you find this particular mystery the more satisfying explanation, who the hell am I to argue with that? I mean that.

Sorry if it came off like I was challenging you or like I'm one of these atheists who wants everyone to believe what i believe. I'm not one.

756 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:48:37am

re: #754 LudwigVanQuixote

I know that is what you are going for and like I said the Talmud addressed Euthyphro directly. God loves good because it is good, however as the source of all things and the creator of all, we conclude that His definitions are the only ones and further, we trust that his definition is the correct one.

Right, well you have to know I have loads of answers to that, but see my above. I'm not interested in attacking or threatening what you personally believe. This is a purely intellectual exercise for me. Apologies, I would never intentionally offend you.

757 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:50:50am

re: #755 iceweasel

Well, theodicy is another issue.
And if you find this particular mystery the more satisfying explanation, who the hell am I to argue with that? I mean that.

Sorry if it came off like I was challenging you or like I'm one of these atheists who wants everyone to believe what i believe. I'm not one.

No not at all I didn't see it like that at all.

Perhaps I was not clear enough. God loves good because it is inherently good. However since God created all things and His will is defined as good while things counter to it are defined as evil, He is still essential as a reference point. So He is still needed and that answers Euthyphro. Further, He is even more needed since we have limited minds and can never fully fathom good or evil. The theodicy comes in naturally as a follow up because the essence of the faith is trust that He knows what He is doing. Why do you think the Talmud has Jeremiah debating Plato?

758 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:55:41am

re: #756 iceweasel

I know you have loads of answers and I am not offended. I think I am being pretty clear that I was going to cheat with my answer as a Jew. We avoid the entire Kantian mess by saying that there is a true deontological source of meaning, it is called G-d and then we talk about G-d. Now that may or may not seem a cop out to you. That is fine if you see it that way. However, my other point functionally was that since we do not know the full will of G-d we are functionally reduced to the same ending point. We functionally still have grey areas that arise when two or more imperatives to do good are in conflict, and we still have really clear cut cases where that is not the case.

The only real difference is that we believe and we trust that human lives do have inherent meaning because the creator defined them as having meaning and thus we avoid the trap of nihilism.

759 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:57:40am

re: #757 LudwigVanQuixote

No not at all I didn't see it like that at all.

Why do you think the Talmud has Jeremiah debating Plato?


Because Plato articulated the central problem of religious belief. The Talmud addresses the Euthyphro dilemma, as it does theodicy, because it has to.

God loves good because it is inherently good. However since God created all things and His will is defined as good while things counter to it are defined as evil, He is still essential as a reference point. So He is still needed and that answers Euthyphro. Further, He is even more needed since we have limited minds and can never fully fathom good or evil. The theodicy comes in naturally as a follow up because the essence of the faith is trust that He knows what He is doing

Right-- and aquinas and others have been ripping off the Talmud's answers for centuries.
The Talmud 'answers' Euthyphro by redefining the nature of God. -- so as to answer the dilemma. they reject the Socratic premises.
Once you do that, it's all up for grabs.
Seriously, I'm not slagging off the Talmud, it's a brilliant philosophical answer and the only one possible to escape the dilemma.

760 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:00:21am

re: #759 iceweasel

Right-- and aquinas and others have been ripping off the Talmud's answers for centuries.
The Talmud 'answers' Euthyphro by redefining the nature of God. -- so as to answer the dilemma. they reject the Socratic premises.
Once you do that, it's all up for grabs.
Seriously, I'm not slagging off the Talmud, it's a brilliant philosophical answer and the only one possible to escape the dilemma.

Exactly. But to be complete, Jerimiah is the prophet of the destruction of the Temple and the exile. That rapidly makes the connection between Good and Evil in the abstract and the notion of God's will and the theodicy. Further, of course Augustine ripped it off, he was after all, a Jewish boy in what was still a splinter sect of Judaism in many ways.

761 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:00:56am

re: #758 LudwigVanQuixote


The only real difference is that we believe and we trust that human lives do have inherent meaning because the creator defined them as having meaning and thus we avoid the trap of nihilism.

I'm not trapping you here but asking a serious question-- do you think nihilism is the only other option? If so, why?
This is a tangent.

762 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:01:51am

re: #759 iceweasel

Though I have to disagree with redefining G-d away from the problem. That is very much not fair. G-d was always defined that way in Jewish thought. This is one of the major differences between Greek philosophy and Jewish philosophy. We came pre-equipped with an answer to the dilemma.

763 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:02:36am

re: #760 LudwigVanQuixote

Exactly. But to be complete, Jerimiah is the prophet of the destruction of the Temple and the exile. That rapidly makes the connection between Good and Evil in the abstract and the notion of God's will and the theodicy. .

That I don't follow. Please explain. (Not up on Jeremiah).

764 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:06:49am

re: #762 LudwigVanQuixote

Though I have to disagree with redefining G-d away from the problem. That is very much not fair. G-d was always defined that way in Jewish thought. This is one of the major differences between Greek philosophy and Jewish philosophy. We came pre-equipped with an answer to the dilemma.

Then you have to bear with me, because I'm coming from a different tradition and scholarship. Please assume my errors are out of ignorance or bad training :) and not something else.

I know greek philosophy first, so, if Jewish philosophy already had an answer Plato didn't know about it, and that's my (sort of) starting point.
I'm ignorant about jewish philosophy on the whole though, I have to say.

765 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:07:46am

re: #761 iceweasel

I'm not trapping you here but asking a serious question-- do you think nihilism is the only other option? If so, why?
This is a tangent.

Great question and yes, yes I do. If there is no deontological source of meaning, then we are trapped with only the meanings we make for ourselves and those meanings die with us. I really see no other escape that does not invoke some higher power outside of man.

If you say well thus and such gives meaning... then we come back with why thus and such and not something else. You chose that because you liked it. If you say well our memories give meaning, in time it all fades into entropy anyway. Without something outside of time and space - outside of the possibility of decay, nothing has any meaning with a capital M.

Getting back to Jewish thought, the answer to this really is that we are most concerned with the notion of Justice. Without something immutable to define Justice, there can be none, at least none with a capital J. Because we can not ever fully comprehend the crime, let alone the way to fix it and set things right again we are stuck either believeing that God can do this or that no indeed the univers will always be broken and that all things fade. The balance might not ever swing back and for sure entropy ultimately wins.

So very good question, and yes that is how I see things.

766 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:11:38am

re: #765 LudwigVanQuixote

You should really read Darwin's Dangerous Idea, by Dennett. It addresses the ontological problem in a very interesting way. And is just generally a brilliant book.

767 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:12:19am

re: #765 LudwigVanQuixote

That's the Euthyphro again, though-- because the end of the dialogue, and not merely the euthyprho dilemma, is that what is good (holy, pious, beloved of the gods) resides in what is just.
One sec and I'll write more.

768 oldegeezr  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:17:30am

re: #346 Killgore Trout

My Granny who lived to be just a few days short of 100, liked to wash the garden veggies with a mixture of [1] part vinegar to [3] parts water and then rinse with fresh water.

Nary a case of the “quick step” in a bushel of anything…the acidic vinegar neutralized the bacteria.

769 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:17:44am

re: #764 iceweasel

Then you have to bear with me, because I'm coming from a different tradition and scholarship. Please assume my errors are out of ignorance or bad training :) and not something else.

I know greek philosophy first, so, if Jewish philosophy already had an answer Plato didn't know about it, and that's my (sort of) starting point.
I'm ignorant about jewish philosophy on the whole though, I have to say.

Please stop walking on eggshells Ice. You are a friend and I know this is intellectual and you are not going to offend me.

It is impossible to overstate the significance of of the Temple or the effect that loosing it had on the Jewish National psyche. In a very short form, where other cultures might have seen the destruction of their holiest place as the abandonment of the people by their God or Gods, or worse that other Gods were stronger, we concluded that God was in charge and that His Judgement was just even if we did not know how it could be. This thought, that somehow it all works out, and that despite all painful evidence to the contrary in this life, that G-d is still in charge and that justice still prevails is the essence of Judaism more than any other thought IMHO.

It is a theme that has sustained us as a people for centuries when I think anyone else would have given up. G-d knows many did.

There were a whole string of prophets who said over and over that G-d was displeased with us and our turning away from His will before that loss. The message was always though that it was still not too late, that we could turn back, but that eventually, judgement would come. Jeremiah was the one who saw it come to pass. That is why he is the one to answer Plato with the message that G-d and not us defines good and that God and not us is still needed because without Him we have no compass for what good is. That is also the tie to the Theodicy in the biggest way.

770 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:18:40am

re: #766 Obdicut

You should really read Darwin's Dangerous Idea, by Dennett. It addresses the ontological problem in a very interesting way. And is just generally a brilliant book.

It is brilliant, and I obviously disagree with him.

771 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:18:52am

re: #765 LudwigVanQuixote

Great question and yes, yes I do. If there is no deontological source of meaning, then we are trapped with only the meanings we make for ourselves and those meanings die with us. I really see no other escape that does not invoke some higher power outside of man.

Why? What?
You can have various deontological theories of good and evil that don't require the ontological posit of a higher being. That's the point of calling them deontological.

772 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:20:40am

re: #771 iceweasel

Why? What?
You can have various deontological theories of good and evil that don't require the ontological posit of a higher being. That's the point of calling them deontological.

Sorry yes, I am tired and that was a brain fart. Of course I meant ontological.

773 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:25:54am

re: #772 LudwigVanQuixote

Sorry yes, I am tired and that was a brain fart. Of course I meant ontological.

No, sorry, i was rereading your comment, and also your new one.

Trust me, I wasn't walking on eggshells, it was a genuine question. About jeremiah and the temple.

That's extremely interesting.

That is also the tie to the Theodicy in the biggest way.

I have a guess. Maybe you should tell me instead?

774 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:26:48am

Also when I say:

There were a whole string of prophets who said over and over that G-d was displeased with us and our turning away from His will before that loss. The message was always though that it was still not too late, that we could turn back, but that eventually, judgement would come if we did not turn back. Jeremiah was the one who saw it come to pass.

This is the strongest religion and science parallel I know in the context of AGW.

775 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:29:43am

re: #773 iceweasel

I have a guess. Maybe you should tell me instead?

I do not mean this answer to be snarky at all, but but read the Lamentations of Jeremiah. He says it himself very, very much better than I ever could and I am much too tired to do him justice.

776 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:31:16am

re: #774 LudwigVanQuixote

I'll have to ask you that nihilism question again when you're less tired (and me too)-- but this has been lovely. :)

Yeah, the AGW parallel with Jeremiah-- that's kind of freaking me out, honey. You're LGF's Jeremiah.

Attack you they will, overcome you they can’t.
I'm not joking one bit here, by the way,or making light.

777 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:36:52am

re: #776 iceweasel

I'll have to ask you that nihilism question again when you're less tired (and me too)-- but this has been lovely. :)

Yeah, the AGW parallel with Jeremiah-- that's kind of freaking me out, honey. You're LGF's Jeremiah.

Attack you they will, overcome you they can’t.
I'm not joking one bit here, by the way,or making light.

OK if you want to get really freaked out there are two prohecies about the end times that cause me to shiver whenever I read them. Now a divergence in Jewish thought from Christian thought is that there need not be an apocalypse.

We believe tha a messianic age can be brought about either through our goodness and enlightenment, or as the result of an apocalypse... call it an easy way or a hard way.

But the hard way has two things that scare me deeply.

One is a verse about bodies not being buried and none going near them. A flag is put up to mark where they fell and so that none go near the corpse.

The only reason I can think of people doing such a thing is a plague or biological contaminant. Contagion will spread badly with AGW.

The other refers to people being burnt to ashes while they still stand.

That is a nuke.

I do not like to indulge in such thoughts ovre much, and I surely would like to say this will not come to pass. However, those two passages always give me a chill. And I know, not guess about the science with AGW.

778 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:39:26am

re: #776 iceweasel

And this has been lovely, but I pray to G-d I am nothing at all like Jeremiah.

779 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:41:43am

re: #777 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes. I hear you.
Catholicism doesn't have that official end of the world stuff that (many) Protestants have.
But just reading the first bit about the flag I thought "plague or germ warfare".

780 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:43:45am

re: #778 LudwigVanQuixote

And this has been lovely, but I pray to G-d I am nothing at all like Jeremiah.

me too.

Looked in the top thread though and the fuckers are claiming pro-choice means pro-abortion, so....this is still a better thread to be on.

781 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:45:07am

re: #780 iceweasel

me too.

Looked in the top thread though and the fuckers are claiming pro-choice means pro-abortion, so...this is still a better thread to be on.

grrr... I am too tired to engage that... fight the good fight!

782 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:47:45am

re: #781 LudwigVanQuixote

grrr... I am too tired to engage that... fight the good fight!

Fuck that noise!
This was lovely; I missed you. Welcome back. Heading to bed now I think.
Thank you.

783 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:49:05am

re: #782 iceweasel

Fuck that noise!
This was lovely; I missed you. Welcome back. Heading to bed now I think.
Thank you.

Me too and thank you and always good to chat with you.

784 CarryOn  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 7:24:53am

Those are actually very tame compared to what is spewed at Democratic Underground or the Daily Kos and the likes.

There are hateful people everywhere. Everybody gets hate mail. Crying and complaining about it is weak. I hate it when O'Reilly complains about it. I hate it when people cry about it.
It happens to everyone who has an opinion and voices it, be it on the right or the left.

785 middy  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 7:33:21am

re: #783 LudwigVanQuixote

Me too and thank you and always good to chat with you.

And here I was thinking that off-topic debate had taken the place of sleep in your diurnal cycle...

:-)

786 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 7:42:15am

re: #765 LudwigVanQuixote

Favorited because CS Lewis implies much the same, in that those who believe in a deity have generally far more in common with each other than those who do not, because of the logic that you touch on here. good stuff.

787 Ken K  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 7:47:17am

Hey Charles. Just wanted to say that I've been reading LGF since shortly after 9-11, and while I've often disagreed with you I've always respected your honesty and commitment to the truth.

Keep up the good work.

-Ken.

788 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 8:20:08am

re: #786 Aceofwhat?

Favorited because CS Lewis implies much the same, in that those who believe in a deity have generally far more in common with each other than those who do not, because of the logic that you touch on here. good stuff.

Thank you Ace.

789 yoshicastmaster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 8:24:13am

Don't let them get to you Charles. I'm sure you know better than to go changing.

I'd say I'm sry that these emails exist but they're just so much fun to read! The preoccupation with homosexual sex is really fascinating. That seems to broadly be the largest insult they can form. If they could think of something they thought was worse, they would use it instead.

So, somehow, gay slurs are the most frequent insults used by teenagers, xbox live users, and the adult blogosphere. fascinating.

790 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 8:44:04am

re: #770 LudwigVanQuixote

But how do you disagree with him? On what point?

791 CarryOn  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 9:07:53am

re: #789 yoshicastmaster

Don't let them get to you Charles. I'm sure you know better than to go changing.

I'd say I'm sry that these emails exist but they're just so much fun to read! The preoccupation with homosexual sex is really fascinating. That seems to broadly be the largest insult they can form. If they could think of something they thought was worse, they would use it instead.

So, somehow, gay slurs are the most frequent insults used by teenagers, xbox live users, and the adult blogosphere. fascinating.

Yeah, just like TV pundits using the term "teabaggers" and "teabagging". It is pathetic.

792 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 10:07:27am

re: #784 CarryOn

Those are actually very tame compared to what is spewed at Democratic Underground or the Daily Kos and the likes.

There are hateful people everywhere. Everybody gets hate mail. Crying and complaining about it is weak. I hate it when O'Reilly complains about it. I hate it when people cry about it.
It happens to everyone who has an opinion and voices it, be it on the right or the left.

Exactly what part of my post was "crying" about the hate mail I get?

793 Locker  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 10:29:54am

re: #784 CarryOn

Those are actually very tame compared to what is spewed at Democratic Underground or the Daily Kos and the likes.

There are hateful people everywhere. Everybody gets hate mail. Crying and complaining about it is weak. I hate it when O'Reilly complains about it. I hate it when people cry about it.
It happens to everyone who has an opinion and voices it, be it on the right or the left.

So you are crying about people crying about it. How does that make you any different than those you are criticizing. Oh I forgot, logic isn't your strong suit. My mistake.

794 mm  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 10:34:32am

I must admit
as loathsome and worthy of exposure as these comments (and commenters) are.. I do find it upsetting to read some of this trash.
you deserve better Charles.
now I have to go find some bromo.

what a shame.
mm

795 DaddyLawBucks  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:05:53pm

Charles,

Your analysis obviously drives the wingnuts insane. The more hate mail, and the more acid the hate, you get, the more effective your comments have been. My theory is these folks can not maintain their world view once reality intrudes, it frightens them. Most frightening of all, if there is not some conspiracy to control the world, they realize that (in their mind) no one is driving the car.

Steve in Reseda

796 pete(detroit)  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 8:38:09pm

Yes, Steve, that soils the shorts of small minds on both sides.
and yeah, the right-wing wakko's can easily be as bad (or worse) than the leftards.
Just to re-iterate - while I may disagree w/ Charles, I still respect him (and his intellectual honesty)
Personally, I wish he were less afraid of Creationists than Communists (bad science can be cured, bad economics takes us ALL down, HARD) but that's me.

797 BryanS  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 10:59:37pm

Though this thread is getting long in the tooth, I had to comment. Hopefully, Charles, you are able to find some amusement in the stupidity of your critics. I have this bad habit of laughing at people who blow their gaskets and scream/swear/threaten me. Usually, I am thinking to myself how ridiculous the ranting person in front of me is, and I end up letting a smile creak through. I have to say that in my experience, nothing pisses of the pissed-off more than laughing at them. And if they ever let out a "what are you laughing/smiling about?", you then have the opportunity to tell them that you are laughing at seeing someone beclown themselves (also a great way to piss them off even more).

Hopefully you manage to get some enjoyment out of the ridiculous rants.


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