Climategate Scientist Vindicated By Penn State Investigation

Science • Views: 4,471

Today’s news about the absurdly exaggerated “Climategate” nontroversy: an internal inquiry by Penn State University into allegations that climate scientist Michael Mann suppressed or “cooked” data has found no evidence of any misconduct by Mann.

The internal enquiry has found that Mann did not “participate in, directly or indirectly, any actions with an intent to suppress or to falsify data”. For the full report, click here (pdf).

Nor did he “delete, conceal or otherwise destroy emails, information and/or data” relating to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s 2007 report. One email that has received much media attention was sent to Mann by Phil Jones, then director of the UEA’s Climatic Research Centre, on 29 May 2008. It asked Mann to delete some emails regarding the 2007 IPCC report.

In the months since the email leak, Mann has repeatedly said that he did not heed to Jones’ request. Penn State’s enquiry confirmed this.

When a scientist is accused of falsifying or suppressing data it’s taken very seriously, and the investigation will go into a second phase in order to resolve other issues around the nontroversy.

The report is not clear about whether Mann’s behaviour has harmed the public trust in science. It cites Penn State’s official ethical standards, which says faculty have an obligation to boost maintain high ethical standards in order to foster public trust in science. It then goes on to discuss the fall-out from the email leak which, it says, may have polarised the public into two camps: one which believes the leak undermines climate science and another which does not.

“After careful consideration of all the evidence and relevant materials, the inquiry committee could not make a definitive finding whether there exists any evidence to substantiate that Dr. Mann did engage in, or participate in, directly or indirectly, any actions that deviated from accepted practices within the academic community,” reads the report. This final point will now be at the centre of a further investigation.

“This is very much the vindication I expected since I am confident I have done nothing wrong,” Mann told New Scientist. “I fully support the additional inquiry which may be the best way to remove any lingering doubts.”

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404 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:06:52pm

Its so cute how these scientists think that their facts will be enough to convince people they’re right!

2 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:09:16pm

Thank you, Charles, for helping to put this stupid story down like the rabid skunk it is.

3 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:10:31pm

Again, I can not overstate how terrible it is in the world of science to accuse someone of cooking their books. It is the prime thou shalt not of science.

People who get caught doing it, and they always do are booted out of the field forever.

To make such a charge is the ultimate in low blows without the greatest and most firm evidence.

It was said in the thread downstairs very correctly that this is a form of asymmetric warfare on the part of the deniers. It is a fabulous analogy.

Again, because Mann was already attacked in congress no less his work has been vindicated by the National Academy. His results have been reproduced by other teams.

But none of this stops a good lie against a good scientist. It is after all the nature of when science becomes the target of politics - and the dirty politics of anything to win at that.

4 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:11:20pm
5 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:11:52pm

re: #4 Maccabean

Okely dokely, flouncearino!

6 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:12:12pm

Well that did not take long. A flounce in less than 5 posts.

7 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:12:18pm

Still no information on who “hacked” into the email account?

8 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:12:32pm

re: #4 Maccabean

So long, flouncer.

9 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:12:56pm

re: #4 Maccabean

Good by class of 2004 I wonder how many more of you are left. Surely your supplies are dwindling…

10 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:12:58pm

re: #4 Maccabean

Stay close with me mates, this is the rare Anti-Global Warming Flouncer, in its natural habbitat, its very rare to actually observe them in action rather than just picking up their tracks!

DANGER DANGER!

11 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:13:11pm

re: #7 prairiefire

Not that I can find. Although, there doesn’t seem to be any question as to their authenticity anymore.

12 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:13:20pm

Why is that the the only flounces I actually see are the dull ones

13 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:13:30pm

re: #4 Maccabean

What a riveting counter-argument. Surely, it will convince multitudes to see things from your point of view.

14 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:13:40pm

Another member of the class of 2004 flounces into oblivion.

15 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:13:54pm

re: #10 jamesfirecat

Don’t scare it off, we might not get to observe its mating ritual… I hear it involves covering themselves in a layer of their own feces.

16 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:14:33pm

And he will not be joining us for the rest of his life…

17 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:15:05pm

And as I pointed out in the prior thread - Penn State is investigating one area further, to dispel any notion of wrongdoing:

Decision 4. Given that information emerged in the form of the emails purloined from CRU in November 2009, which have raised questions in the public’s mind about Dr. Mann’s conduct of his research activity, given that this may be undermining confidence in his findings as a scientist, and given that it may be undermining public trust in science in general and climate science specifically, the inquiry committee believes an investigatory committee of faculty peers from diverse fields should be constituted under RA-10 to further consider this allegation.

In sum, the overriding sentiment of this committee, which is composed of University administrators, is that allegation #4 revolves around the question of accepted faculty conduct surrounding scientific discourse and thus merits a review by a committee of faculty scientists. Only with such a review will the academic community and other interested parties likely feel that Penn State has discharged it responsibility on this matter.

They vindicated Mann completely on the other three claims.

18 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:15:07pm

re: #12 Jadespring

Why is that the the only flounces I actually see are the dull ones

Most of them are pathetic. They’re simply variants of “I hate you, daddy! Pay attention to pay!”.

19 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:15:15pm

re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote

And he will not be joining us for the rest of his life…

Bummer. Aww, rats, I missed it

20 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:15:26pm

So, what DID happen in 2004?

21 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:15:36pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

How many are left I wonder.

22 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:15:44pm

re: #16 LudwigVanQuixote

Hans… is that you? /maclain

23 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:16:08pm

re: #15 LudwigVanQuixote

Don’t scare it off, we might not get to observe its mating ritual… I hear it involves covering themselves in a layer of their own feces.

I for one, refuse to dig it out.

24 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:16:58pm

re: #20 Jeff In Ohio

So, what DID happen in 2004?

Registration began.

The flouncer updinged the article, then flounced. I wonder what that means.

25 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:17:09pm

re: #20 Jeff In Ohio

Registration first started on June 15, 2004.

26 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:17:18pm

How long do we wait until the deniers who started the attack on Mann, man up and apologize?

27 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:17:21pm

re: #10 jamesfirecat

Stay close with me mates, this is the rare Anti-Global Warming Flouncer, in its natural habbitat, its very rare to actually observe them in action rather than just picking up their tracks!

DANGER DANGER!

No need to worry. Charles brained the thing with his Ban Hammer. I’m putting the troll on ice for now and I’ll grill it tonight for dinner.

28 jaunte  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:17:33pm

re: #24 wrenchwench

Poor aiming skills.

29 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:17:44pm

re: #24 wrenchwench

Registration began.

The flouncer updinged the article, then flounced. I wonder what that means.

He hit the wrong button.

30 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:17:59pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

W00T!
What wine goes with it? Red?

31 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:18:06pm

Cya folks, I have to run. If there’s another flounce before we hit 50 posts on this thread I win the pool.

32 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:18:08pm

re: #26 b_sharp

How long do we wait until the deniers who started the attack on Mann, man up and apologize?

That’ll happen on the first Tuesday that comes at the end of the week.

33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:18:15pm

There you have it, folks. Ever the way with the idiotarians.

“If you don’t agree with the bogus malarkey that I have been spoon-fed by dishonest squawkers, that obviously means you’re stupid”.

34 jaunte  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:18:25pm

People fly into rages about the weirdest stuff.

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:18:30pm

re: #20 Jeff In Ohio

So, what DID happen in 2004?

Charles instituted registration. Shortly afterward, every nut in the free world signed up to LDF with several different names, and put the names and passwords aside for later.

How they knew to do this I’m not sure, but we’ve been seeing the results for months.

36 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:18:30pm

re: #7 prairiefire

Still no information on who “hacked” into the email account?

I personally think it was the Russians. Other than this showing up first on a Russian server (or at least I have seen reports to that effect) I can not prove it. However the Russians have a history of leaking “science” in order to influence American politics.

The Russians see themselves as a relative climate winner compared to the US. As their north thaws, they move fields to the north and create a buffer in the south against refugees. They get a warm water port.

Their main cities are not on the coasts.

They will be hurt by it, and they do not take contagion and world economic collapse well enough into account. But we in the US and For that matter China will be devastated. They see AGW as the way to be the dominant power for keeps after the next century. They may be correct.

37 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:18:55pm

re: #26 b_sharp

How long do we wait until the deniers who started the attack on Mann, man up and apologize?

I’m going to guess eleventy one hundred days. Give or take a few.

38 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:19:03pm

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

Most of them are pathetic. They’re simply variants of “I hate you, daddy! Pay attention to me!”.

PIMF

39 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:19:20pm

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

That’ll happen on the first Tuesday that comes at the end of the week.

Yah. I thought I saw a Tuesday like that once, but my wife tells me it was the Guinness.

40 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:19:39pm

re: #26 b_sharp

How long do we wait until the deniers who started the attack on Mann, man up and apologize?

About two years after Manhattan floods.

41 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:19:48pm

re: #34 jaunte

People fly into rages about the weirdest stuff.

The flounce over a dowsing thread is my favorite.
XD

42 Locker  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:20:32pm

re: #24 wrenchwench

Registration began.

The flouncer updinged the article, then flounced. I wonder what that means.

Schizophrenia?

43 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:20:37pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

So they may want to pump more Co2/Methane to offset reductions here and in Europe. Nice. A tad frightening.

44 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:20:51pm

re: #41 Varek Raith

The flounce over a dowsing thread is my favorite.
XD

Huh?

Did he/she/they wet itself?

45 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:21:06pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

I personally think it was the Russians. Other than this showing up first on a Russian server (or at least I have seen reports to that effect) I can not prove it. However the Russians have a history of leaking “science” in order to influence American politics.

The Russians see themselves as a relative climate winner compared to the US. As their north thaws, they move fields to the north and create a buffer in the south against refugees. They get a warm water port.

Their main cities are not on the coasts.

They will be hurt by it, and they do not take contagion and world economic collapse well enough into account. But we in the US and For that matter China will be devastated. They see AGW as the way to be the dominant power for keeps after the next century. They may be correct.

A rise in sea levels would still flood St. Petersburg, correct?

46 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:21:16pm

re: #30 Rightwingconspirator

W00T!
What wine goes with it? Red?

depends on the sauce…although can you ever go wrong with Bordeaux?

47 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:22:10pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

I personally think it was the Russians. Other than this showing up first on a Russian server (or at least I have seen reports to that effect) I can not prove it. However the Russians have a history of leaking “science” in order to influence American politics.

The Russians see themselves as a relative climate winner compared to the US. As their north thaws, they move fields to the north and create a buffer in the south against refugees. They get a warm water port.

Their main cities are not on the coasts.

They will be hurt by it, and they do not take contagion and world economic collapse well enough into account. But we in the US and For that matter China will be devastated. They see AGW as the way to be the dominant power for keeps after the next century. They may be correct.

I’d rather look towards Marc Morano and friends. They have the money behind them.

48 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:23:14pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

I personally think it was the Russians. Other than this showing up first on a Russian server (or at least I have seen reports to that effect) I can not prove it. However the Russians have a history of leaking “science” in order to influence American politics.

The Russians see themselves as a relative climate winner compared to the US. As their north thaws, they move fields to the north and create a buffer in the south against refugees. They get a warm water port.

Their main cities are not on the coasts.

They will be hurt by it, and they do not take contagion and world economic collapse well enough into account. But we in the US and For that matter China will be devastated. They see AGW as the way to be the dominant power for keeps after the next century. They may be correct.

That sounds like a very Beck-like conspiracy

49 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:23:15pm

re: #44 b_sharp

Huh?

Did he/she/they wet itself?

Dowsing.

The thread the flounce occurred, comment #147.

50 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:23:30pm

re: #46 Aceofwhat?

An excellent point. Although I was never much of a terrior-ist.

51 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:24:07pm

re: #43 Rightwingconspirator

So they may want to pump more Co2/Methane to offset reductions here and in Europe. Nice. A tad frightening.

It happens as they thaw. They get it for free. Hell they will even try to harvest and sell the methane as a fuel.

Russian policy towards AGW is very noticeably un -enthusiastic. Their language is pretty clear officially about meeting the challenges that Russia will take due to this and they try very hard to block efforts along with the Chinese.

52 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:24:37pm

re: #20 Jeff In Ohio

So, what DID happen in 2004?

All I know is that a bunch of complete assholes seemed to have signed up in 2004.

/

53 The Curmudgeon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:25:01pm

I missed the flounce. But when I do it, I’ll pick a big issue and go out in style. Maybe one of those overnight threads with a beach picture

54 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:25:18pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

A rise in sea levels would still flood St. Petersburg, correct?

Has nothing to do with that, it has to do with the idiots running Gazprom, which controls a sizeable ch8iunk of the Russian economy.

But I do have to ask: why is it that nothing gets the trolls and goombahs up and howling like an AGW debate?

55 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:25:24pm

re: #48 cliffster

Well I may be wrong. I seriously am speculating here about it. However, I do know what the predictions look like for Russia and I know their scientists are really good too. It is not so very far fetched that they would think that way.

56 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:25:27pm

re: #51 LudwigVanQuixote

It happens as they thaw.

57 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:25:53pm

Scienterrific!

58 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:26:21pm

re: #54 ralphieboy

Has nothing to do with that, it has to do with the idiots running Gazprom, which controls a sizeable ch8iunk of the Russian economy.

But I do have to ask: why is it that nothing gets the trolls and goombahs up and howling like an AGW debate?

Because they have been programmed to attack when they see it. They honestly believe it is a socialist conspiracy from us evil commie scientists.

59 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:27:56pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

A rise in sea levels would still flood St. Petersburg, correct?

Yes. I truly think they see it as losing a bishop as to us and China loosing a queen and two rooks.

60 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:27:58pm

Later! Gotta prepare for Friday’s ‘significant’ snow storm.
:)

61 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:27:58pm

re: #58 LudwigVanQuixote

Because they have been programmed to attack when they see it. They honestly believe it is a socialist conspiracy from us evil commie scientists.

Is that choice of words doubly, or triply, redundant to an AGW denier?

62 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:28:21pm

re: #51 LudwigVanQuixote

Well if I understand combustion, at least that is better than raw methane. Did you happen to catch a post at ya a day or so ago about methane increases?

63 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:28:30pm

re: #49 Varek Raith

Dowsing.

The thread the flounce occurred, comment #147.

The dowsing flounce was a classic LGF moment. He posted “go ahead and ban me if you want…”

He’s probably now one of those people who claims he was banned simply for disagreeing with me.

64 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:28:52pm

re: #49 Varek Raith

Geez, that’s gotta be worse than flouncing over a thread that declares the Tooth Fairy isn’t real. Sad.

65 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:30:10pm

re: #54 ralphieboy

Has nothing to do with that, it has to do with the idiots running Gazprom, which controls a sizeable ch8iunk of the Russian economy.

But I do have to ask: why is it that nothing gets the trolls and goombahs up and howling like an AGW debate?

Any measure to correct for global warming, cap and trade or otherwise, will have a huge negative economic impact. And in parallel greatly increases government participation in corporate activities, from the supply chain to manufacturing. That makes people look for reasons to doubt it. It’s not because they are grouchy.

66 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:31:08pm

re: #62 Rightwingconspirator

Well if I understand combustion, at least that is better than raw methane. Did you happen to catch a post at ya a day or so ago about methane increases?

NO but I have posted about five papers here on what it will do and how it is accelerating.

You can see footage of Russian scientists digging a hole in a frozen lake, and lighting a 20 foot gout of flame that knocks them over.

67 AlexRogan  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:31:09pm

Like Jenna McCarthy and the anti-vaxxers after The Lancet finally and completely disowned and discredited the “study” they published 12+ years ago that was the genesis for the anti-vaxxers/”vaccines cause autism!” movement, this won’t matter to the anti-AGW faithful. They’ll say it’s a coverup by the government and Big College, just as the anti-vaxxers will say The Lancet folded because of the government and Big Pharma.

/stupid is as stupid does…

68 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:31:29pm

re: #59 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes. I truly think they see it as losing a bishop as to us and China loosing a queen and two rooks.

That’s callous, Russia, though, is often callous so i see your point.

BBL

69 HoosierHoops  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:31:40pm

re: #63 Charles

The dowsing flounce was a classic LGF moment. He posted “go ahead and ban me if you want…”

He’s probably now one of those people who claims he was banned simply for disagreeing with me.

I still like Iamtoast’s explanation of being banned..
‘There I was just rubbing my dogs belly when BAM! Out of the Blue Charles banned me for no reason’
Classic

70 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:33:10pm

re: #63 Charles

The dowsing flounce was a classic LGF moment. He posted “go ahead and ban me if you want…”

He’s probably now one of those people who claims he was banned simply for disagreeing with me.

I laughed at that hard enough to give me a headache.

71 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:33:12pm

re: #21 Rightwingconspirator

How many are left I wonder.

Well, I’m still here from 2004… but I shal assiduously eschew the urge to flounce…

72 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:34:06pm

re: #71 Mr. Hammer

shall (sorry!)

73 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:34:34pm

re: #65 cliffster

Any measure to correct for global warming, cap and trade or otherwise, will have a huge negative economic impact. And in parallel greatly increases government participation in corporate activities, from the supply chain to manufacturing. That makes people look for reasons to doubt it. It’s not because they are grouchy.

I seem to remember similar outcries when pollution was the target for taxes. Didn’t seem to do much lasting damage.

74 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:36:58pm

More Rush comments that are sure to provoke:

After a career spent battling the feminist movement, Rush Limbaugh took to the air today declaring, “I love the women’s movement — especially when walking behind it.”

The conservative firebrand appearing on “Fox and Friends,” defended his participation as a judge in last week’s Miss America pageant.

“So for those who were critics of you in judging this pageant, and saying that you haven’t been a supporter of women in the past?” host Gretchen Carlson, the winner of 1989’s Miss America pageant, asked.

“Oh, I’m a huge supporter of women. What I’m not a supporter of is liberalism. Feminism is what I oppose, and feminism has led women astray. I love women. I don’t know where all this got started,” Limbaugh replied.

“I love the women’s movement — especially when walking behind it. This idea that I don’t like women is absurd. This is Miss America. And if there’s a Mr. America out there, it’s me.”

75 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:37:42pm

re: #73 b_sharp

I seem to remember similar outcries when pollution was the target for taxes. Didn’t seem to do much lasting damage.

Yep, Lord knows, there’s been no decrease in manufacturing or chemical production processing that is attributable to the regulatory environment.

76 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:38:53pm

I was just minding my own business. You see me and my wife, three kids, two dogs, cat and pet ferrets, (there are five of them) were just minding our own business… I explained to Charles that we all share one computer like a dozen times and he was cool about it, and we all had accounts.

Well otto, the third ferret almost never got on, but one day he did and posted a totally innocuous comment about how God hates gay people and evolutionists will burn in hell, I mean how could anyone be offended, that is just God’s truth. Jeeze he hates Christians!

Anyway Otto posted this and I guess Charles forgot he had an account and then Charles thought suddenly that me and my wife, the dogs the cat and the other ferrets, Tinkerbell and Cuddles were all sock puppets.

But I was all like he knew about the other accounts. We only have the one computer here!

But no he didn’t care. He honest God fearing hates Christians - and honest God fearing ferrets!

I hate him soo much. He is Satan. He is. I am glad he booted me! I will never go back. I wish I did have a sock! I would go back just to tell him how much God cries whenever he makes a “science” post.

///////

77 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:39:05pm

re: #74 lawhawk

“Oh, I’m a huge supporter of women. What I’m not a supporter of is liberalism. Feminism is what I oppose, and feminism has led women astray. I love women. I don’t know where all this got started,” Limbaugh replied.

Too ignorant to realize he answered his own question. Dumbass.

78 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:41:26pm
“I love the women’s movement — especially when walking behind it. This idea that I don’t like women is absurd. This is Miss America. And if there’s a Mr. America out there, it’s me.”

If you’re Mr. America, I’m mother-friggin’ Zeus.

79 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:41:49pm

re: #74 lawhawk

Serious question here… How many of you all think Rush hates women so much because a fat hateful slob like him can’t get laid even though he is rich?

After that, I want to yell some more about the injustice done to science by gits like Rush.

80 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:42:20pm

re: #63 Charles

Ha! you called it, too - comment #24. priceless.

81 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:42:33pm

re: #74 lawhawk

I honestly think that Rush craves negative attention. It’s kinda sick.

I have an uncle who acts the same way. We call him Racist Uncle Steve.

Good times.

82 AlexRogan  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:42:46pm

re: #74 lawhawk

More Rush comments that are sure to provoke:

While I love “girlwatching” just as much as the next guy, Rush came off like a egotistical ass with his statement…it fits his radio persona, but he’s still a f**king jackass.

83 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:43:46pm

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

Serious question here… How many of you all think Rush hates women so much because a fat hateful slob like him can’t get laid even though he is rich?

umm… I don’t.

84 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:43:50pm

Get angry and rant about Rush at your own peril. It is exactly what he wants.

85 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:43:50pm

re: #77 allegro

“Oh, I’m a huge supporter of women. What I’m not a supporter of is liberalism. Feminism is what I oppose, and feminism has led women astray. I love women. I don’t know where all this got started,” Limbaugh replied.

Too ignorant to realize he answered his own question. Dumbass.


Yep. Probably all went to hell with that crazy giving us the vote stuff, like our pal Coulter says.
2007:

It would be a much better country if women did not vote. That is simply a fact.
86 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:44:27pm

re: #69 HoosierHoops

I still like Iamtoast’s explanation of being banned..
‘There I was just rubbing my dogs belly when BAM! Out of the Blue Charles banned me for no reason’
Classic

Quite the eponymous handle, too-

87 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:44:50pm

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

Serious question here… How many of you all think Rush hates women so much because a fat hateful slob like him can’t get laid even though he is rich?

After that, I want to yell some more about the injustice done to science by gits like Rush.

I think he can’t get laid because he’s a sexist pig. I’m a fat slob and I do just fine.

88 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:45:21pm

re: #84 cliffster

However, even if he wants it, it can still be a good thing to do.

I do think he craves negative attention. That doesn’t mean that giving him negative attention is a bad thing, if it also helps to stop his bullshit from influencing people.

Therein lies the rub.

89 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:45:35pm

re: #82 talon_262

While I love “girlwatching” just as much as the next guy, Rush came off like a egotistical ass with his statement…it fits his radio persona, but he’s still a f**king jackass.

I think it’s mostly schtick.

90 Jack Burton  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:45:40pm

re: #57 iceweasel

Scienterrific!

BTW I saw your music request last night. I try to make some time for that soon.

91 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:46:12pm

re: #87 Conservative Moonbat

I think he can’t get laid because he’s a sexist pig. I’m a fat slob and I do just fine.

Well that is why I added hateful.

92 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:46:48pm

re: #65 cliffster

Any measure to correct for global warming, cap and trade or otherwise, will have a huge negative economic impact. And in parallel greatly increases government participation in corporate activities, from the supply chain to manufacturing. That makes people look for reasons to doubt it. It’s not because they are grouchy.

Yep. It’s the inability to separate the evaluation of the science on its merits with the prescriptions that we might take given the science.

93 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:46:52pm

re: #85 iceweasel

Yep. Probably all went to hell with that crazy giving us the vote stuff, like our pal Coulter says.
2007:

It would be a much better country if women did not vote. That is simply a fact.

The latest from the RNC, in their desire to attract more women to the GOP:

“Women sometimes need a little more handholding, or they need their friends to help them make a decision.”

And they wonder?

94 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:47:46pm

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

Serious question here… How many of you all think Rush hates women so much because a fat hateful slob like him can’t get laid even though he is rich?

After that, I want to yell some more about the injustice done to science by gits like Rush.

The two go together; if you’re a misogynistic ass don’t be surprised if women don’t want to have sex with you, and scumbags tend to become more misogynistic because they feel they’re not getting ‘enough’ from women. Because of course, women exist to gratify their needs.

Reminder: the definition of a ‘slut’ is usually a woman who’s not fucking you.

95 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:48:21pm

re: #94 iceweasel

haaahaaa…last line…priceless…gasping for air…

96 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:48:25pm

re: #90 ArchangelMichael

BTW I saw your music request last night. I try to make some time for that soon.

Yay! Thanks!
Good to see you; I hope you’ve been well.

97 abbyadams  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:48:42pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

This scientist (and Penn State Grad School Alum,) agrees. Wholeheartedly.

98 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:48:46pm

re: #66 LudwigVanQuixote

That would indicate we are past the tipping point would it not?

99 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:49:04pm

re: #94 iceweasel

The two go together; if you’re a misogynistic ass don’t be surprised if women don’t want to have sex with you, and scumbags tend to become more misogynistic because they feel they’re not getting ‘enough’ from women. Because of course, women exist to gratify their needs.

Reminder: the definition of a ‘slut’ is usually a woman who’s not fucking you.

Ohh so true…

Thanks for reinforcing my suspicions.

100 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:49:12pm

re: #91 LudwigVanQuixote

Well that is why I added hateful.

Actually I assume he goes for $5000 a night call girls.

101 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:49:16pm

And I should trust Penn State because…?

102 abbyadams  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:49:19pm

re: #93 allegro

I saw that line before today. Amazing.

103 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:49:43pm

re: #95 aceofwhat?

haaahaaa…last line…priceless…gasping for air…

Heh— thanks. I really thought everyone had heard that before. :)

104 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:50:02pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder

And I should trust Penn State because…?

Joe Paterno is the straightest shooter of all time.

105 jaunte  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:50:27pm

Paternolism!

106 darthstar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:50:37pm

Heh…quick humor break:
This old lady started reving her engine next to me at a light…so I thought she wanted to race. Sure enough, she took off…then I realized she was in a camry.

107 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:51:05pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder

And I should trust Penn State because…?

Curious… is there some reason that you shouldn’t?

108 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:51:21pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder

Joe Paterno?

(Caveat: Not a PSU alum, I went to Pitt :p )

109 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:51:28pm

re: #103 iceweasel

Heh— thanks. I really thought everyone had heard that before. :)

Hey, Jimmah had never heard that version i posted of “Wave of Mutilation” before last night…we’re even.

110 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:51:31pm

OT - Toyota is fucked

111 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:51:47pm

I’m sure Penn State is part of the grand conspiracy. There’s just no winning.

On a side note, Bruce Bartlett, the former GOP economic policy wank, is also titling posts, Why I’m Not A Republican.

112 AlexRogan  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:51:58pm

re: #84 cliffster

Get angry and rant about Rush at your own peril. It is exactly what he wants.

F**k Rush…I don’t particularly give two shits about him personally, but as the defacto media leader of the GOP (besides Fox News), he’s the main man that’s helping to lead American conservatism over the cliff.

113 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:53:03pm

re: #112 talon_262

F**k Rush…I don’t particularly give two shits about him personally, but as the defacto media leader of the GOP (besides Fox News), he’s the main man that’s helping to lead American conservatism over the cliff.

So, how much did the DNC pay the Pied Piper to accomplish this?

/

114 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:53:04pm

re: #100 Conservative Moonbat

Actually I assume he goes for $5000 a night call girls.

I thought there was a discount because they lost Spitzer’s business and needed to recover…?

115 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:53:30pm

re: #110 cliffster

OT - Toyota is fucked

yep. now the prius brakes are under investigation. baaad news.

116 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:53:46pm

re: #93 allegro

The latest from the RNC, in their desire to attract more women to the GOP:

“Women sometimes need a little more handholding, or they need their friends to help them make a decision.”

And they wonder?

Holy cannoli, BatWoman! No, I hadn’t seen that.

Welp, that sounds like a way to attract women to the GOP. Have they suggested changing their colour to pink yet? Or are they too afraid that will attract teh ghey?

117 darthstar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:53:50pm

re: #110 cliffster

OT - Toyota is fucked

What…just because the gas pedals on Camrys and Avalons and Highlanders (Camrys with an SUV shell) stick, and the brakes on Prii (is that the plural for Prius?) aren’t responsive? Detroit doesn’t seem to think this is a big issue.

118 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:53:53pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder

And I should trust Penn State because…?

You really need to be told why you should trust research done at an academic institution over what you read at a conservative blog?

119 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:55:26pm

re: #115 aceofwhat?

yep. now the prius brakes are under investigation. baaad news.

Almost too weird to be accident. Accelerator leads, Brakes are uppercut, to the mat goes Toyota. Too bad, too. Good cars. well, other than that accelerator and brake stuff.

120 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:55:42pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder

And I should trust Penn State because…?

they beat LSU!!

121 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:56:05pm

re: #117 darthstar

What…just because the gas pedals on Camrys and Avalons and Highlanders (Camrys with an SUV shell) stick, and the brakes on Prii (is that the plural for Prius?) aren’t responsive? Detroit doesn’t seem to think this is a big issue.

Detroit’s position - if the engine goes before the brakes, then there’s nothing to worry about.

122 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:56:07pm

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

Serious question here… How many of you all think Rush hates women so much because a fat hateful slob like him can’t get laid even though he is rich?

After that, I want to yell some more about the injustice done to science by gits like Rush.

I thought he was married - multiple times, of course. Maybe the pre-nup with his current trophy specifically rules out her having to get intimate with him. No teabagging, in other words. Just hangin’ on his arm and representin’ at tea parties.

123 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:56:48pm

re: #119 cliffster

Accelerator leads, Brakes are uppercut, to the mat goes Toyota. Too bad, too. Good cars. well, other than that accelerator and brake stuff.

That pretty much blows. My Celica (circa late 70s) was the best, funnest car I ever owned.

124 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:57:11pm

re: #119 cliffster

Almost too weird to be accident. Accelerator leads, Brakes are uppercut, to the mat goes Toyota. Too bad, too. Good cars. well, other than that accelerator and brake stuff.

yeah, they’ll be ok as long as this is the last of it. oh, and the Honda Fit needs to be recalled so it doesn’t catch on fire.

still, Ford is making great cars at the moment…we’ll see if they can take advantage.

125 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:57:20pm

re: #122 Cato the Elder

I thought he was married - multiple times, of course. Maybe the pre-nup with his current trophy specifically rules out her having to get intimate with him. No teabagging, in other words. Just hangin’ on his arm and representin’ at tea parties.

I don’t remember which wife he’s up to now, but let us recall that back in the day he was busted coming back from the Dominican Republic with a whole lot of Viagra.

126 darthstar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:58:44pm

re: #121 cliffster

Detroit’s position - if the engine goes before the brakes, then there’s nothing to worry about.


And that’s never been a problem for them. / My next vehicle will likely be an American made one…I’m looking for a good ‘74 (or older) Ford pickup…I want a work-horse that isn’t just plastic crap.

127 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:59:55pm

re: #124 aceofwhat?

Go Ford! We need a healthy automobile sector in America. this was good news: ford.com

128 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 1:59:59pm

re: #112 talon_262

F**k Rush…I don’t particularly give two shits about him personally, but as the defacto media leader of the GOP (besides Fox News), he’s the main man that’s helping to lead American conservatism over the cliff.

Serious question… where does Fox News get this reputation as cheerleaders for the GOP? Other than Hannity (who is obviously over the top - but is a commentator, and does not claim to be a journalist), I’m not sure I see it. I’ve found O’Reilly to be pretty fair generally - especially to Obama… Who else is a problem? Shepard Smith? Greta? Brit Hume? Geraldo? Thoughts??

129 darthstar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:00:02pm

re: #125 iceweasel

I don’t remember which wife he’s up to now, but let us recall that back in the day he was busted coming back from the Dominican Republic with a whole lot of Viagra.

Limbaugh’s sex tours…the thought of it makes me sick.

130 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:00:28pm

re: #126 darthstar

And that’s never been a problem for them. / My next vehicle will likely be an American made one…I’m looking for a good ‘74 (or older) Ford pickup…I want a work-horse that isn’t just plastic crap.

Ford is making some good pickups that are big, heavy beasts. Chevy is always a good choice for your redneck-vehicle pleasure. Avoid Dodge like the clap.

131 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:00:40pm

re: #118 Conservative Moonbat

You really need to be told why you should trust research done at an academic institution over what you read at a conservative blog?

The research that established a connection between vaccines and autism was done at academic institutions.

I am not a big fan of the argumentum ab auctoritate.

132 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:01:57pm

Rush must be trying to create more controversy to cover up his blatantly racist comments from yesterday.

133 AlexRogan  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:02:43pm

re: #125 iceweasel

I don’t remember which wife he’s up to now, but let us recall that back in the day he was busted coming back from the Dominican Republic with a whole lot of Viagra.

IIRC, it’s not been that long…a couple or three years or so.

134 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:02:50pm

re: #127 prairiefire

Go Ford! We need a healthy automobile sector in America. this was good news: [Link: www.ford.com…]

Agreed, especially as they didn’t vacuum up our tax dollars in bailouts, at least not to the extent that some other automakers did. Funny what good quality and cars with great features that are worth driving will do to your bottom line…

135 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:03:39pm

re: #115 aceofwhat?

yep. now the prius brakes are under investigation. baaad news.

“Everybody can relax, I found the car. Needs some suspension work and shocks. Brakes, brake pads, lining, steering box, transmission, rear-end.”

136 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:03:44pm

re: #127 prairiefire

Go Ford! We need a healthy automobile sector in America. this was good news: [Link: www.ford.com…]

Ford deserves praise. They have very competent management, and if anyone could be said to be prospering during the current recession, it’s them. At least relative to their peers.

The short term future will be difficult for them, however. They avoided government intervention by taking on a lot of debt, and GM is now essentially debt-free. But five years out, my money’s on Ford.

137 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:04:55pm

re: #136 SixDegrees


They avoided government intervention by taking on a lot of debt, and GM is now essentially debt-free. But five years out, my money’s on Ford.

Which is too bad, ‘cause your money’s in GM.

138 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:05:03pm

re: #129 darthstar

Limbaugh’s sex tours…the thought of it makes me sick.

Same here.
Total tangent (except linked by the feeling of nausea): the grifter from Wasilla has a nice long burbling piece about why she’s speaking at the Teabagging Convention. This little bit leapt out at me:

I thought long and hard about my participation in this weekend’s event. At the end of the day, my decision came down to this: It’s important to keep faith with people who put a little bit of their faith in you.

Like finishing out your term as governor, for a start. Wise words, Bible Spice. Well-played.

139 AlexRogan  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:05:12pm

re: #135 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“Everybody can relax, I found the car. Needs some suspension work and shocks. Brakes, brake pads, lining, steering box, transmission, rear-end.”

Loves me some Ghostbusters quotes… ;-P

140 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:05:20pm

re: #134 aceofwhat?

Agreed, especially as they didn’t vacuum up our tax dollars in bailouts, at least not to the extent that some other automakers did. Funny what good quality and cars with great features that are worth driving will do to your bottom line…

No kidding.
Many old gearheads were excited about the pre- launch news of the 2010 Camaro, but then the GM bailout thing turned ‘em into Mustang lovers.

141 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:05:21pm

re: #128 Mr. Hammer

Serious question… where does Fox News get this reputation as cheerleaders for the GOP? Other than Hannity (who is obviously over the top - but is a commentator, and does not claim to be a journalist), I’m not sure I see it. I’ve found O’Reilly to be pretty fair generally - especially to Obama… Who else is a problem? Shepard Smith? Greta? Brit Hume? Geraldo? Thoughts??

Umm… does the name Glenn Beck ring a bell?

142 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:05:38pm

re: #128 Mr. Hammer

Is that parody?

143 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:05:50pm

OT, sorry, but talk about being between a rock and a hard place…

“wait…our laws say we have to give him the money back? ruh-roh…

144 darthstar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:05:55pm

re: #138 iceweasel

Heh…I call her ‘the grifter’ as well. Well said, by the way.

145 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:06:20pm

re: #137 Guanxi88

Which is too bad, ‘cause your money’s in GM.

Well, yes, there’s that.

However, I also bought Ford at $2 per share.

146 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:06:29pm

re: #138 iceweasel

I thought long and hard about my participation in this weekend’s event. At the end of the day, my decision came down to this: it’s $100,000K payoff.

147 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:06:33pm

re: #141 jamesfirecat

Umm… does the name Glenn Beck ring a bell?

No not really…wait, you mean Glenn Mother Fucking Beck?

//

148 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:06:40pm

re: #133 talon_262

IIRC, it’s not been that long…a couple or three years or so.

That sounds right. Sometime around when he was already cutting a deal over the Oxycontin bust— they thought for a while this bust would jeopardise the terms of his deal (because it violated it). Naturally he slithered out somehow.

149 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:06:43pm

re: #138 iceweasel

Bible Spice! lmao. you’re on a roll.

150 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:07:13pm

Rush’s line about the women’s movement, by the way, is old hat. I first heard (or read about) him using it at least 15 years ago.

Not sure why everyone is acting all shocked. It’s one of his standard riffs.

151 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:07:18pm

re: #141 jamesfirecat

OK, yes. Beck, of course. I forgot about him. But he is relatively new at Fox, and Fox had this reputation long before Beck arrived.

152 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:07:30pm

re: #145 SixDegrees

Well, yes, there’s that.

However, I also bought Ford at $2 per share.

Correction:

Your SMART money was in Ford - perhaps the smartest - your taken at gunpoint and swindled money, that’s in GM.

$2.00 Ford shares? Gimme!

153 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:08:25pm

re: #150 Cato the Elder

Context. Saying it over a beer is different from saying it in the context of a serious question.

Though why anyone is asking Rush serious questions I do not know.

154 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:08:26pm

re: #150 Cato the Elder

Yeah, you’re right. I’ve heard him say the same ages ago.

155 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:08:36pm

re: #151 Mr. Hammer

OK, yes. Beck, of course. I forgot about him. But he is relatively new at Fox, and Fox had this reputation long before Beck arrived.

Roger Ailes.

156 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:09:04pm

re: #151 Mr. Hammer

OK, yes. Beck, of course. I forgot about him. But he is relatively new at Fox, and Fox had this reputation long before Beck arrived.

Fox in the afternoons and Fox in the evenings are very different beasts.

157 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:09:04pm

re: #144 darthstar

Heh…I call her ‘the grifter’ as well. Well said, by the way.

She’s pretty much demonstrated that she deserves that sobriquet.

There’s still something breathtaking about the sheer dishonesty and brazenness of that particular comment by her. Those that can’t do, preach teabag.

158 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:09:05pm

re: #98 Rightwingconspirator

That would indicate we are past the tipping point would it not?

I don’t think we are yet. It is hard to say when we hit it with the methane bogs. However, it is not more than 30 years out. I have seen papers that go from asserting we have passed it to 30 years.

A really good paper at identifying tipping points it this. I keep linking to it, because it is really good and really readable.

pnas.org

That paper does not go into methane in great detail.

Here are some good Methane papers:

iop.org

This is a great review of why bother looking into it.

neespi.org

faculty.jsd.claremont.edu

geophyslab.srcc.msu.ru

Here is a fantastic paper from Nature cited over 1100 times about impacts already seen on different species.

nature.com

159 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:09:19pm

re: #151 Mr. Hammer

OK, yes. Beck, of course. I forgot about him. But he is relatively new at Fox, and Fox had this reputation long before Beck arrived.

A reputation they did everything to earn.

160 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:10:09pm

re: #153 Obdicut

Context. Saying it over a beer is different from saying it in the context of a serious question.

Though why anyone is asking Rush serious questions I do not know.

Bull. It was serious then, too.

161 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:10:13pm

re: #128 Mr. Hammer

I recall seeing that Fox News out-polled ABC, CBS, and NBC for the SOTU address

162 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:10:22pm

re: #149 aceofwhat?

Bible Spice! lmao. you’re on a roll.

Aw, again that’s not original with me. But thanks!

I think I was the first person to use it here though, possibly. Not sure where that name started— definitely in 2008 somewhere in the leftysphere.

163 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:10:29pm

re: #159 Cato the Elder

A reputation they did everything to earn.

Can you tell me why? Seriously, is it just Hannity, or do you think Hume’s reporting is slanted or unfair?

164 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:11:20pm

re: #152 Guanxi88

Correction:

Your SMART money was in Ford - perhaps the smartest - your taken at gunpoint and swindled money, that’s in GM.

$2.00 Ford shares? Gimme!

One advantage of living in the Detroit area is close association with a lot of people in the industry. GM and Chrysler have been getting flamed by their own employees for years, while Ford’s management has earned high praise from the people who actually work there. A happy workforce is a good indicator of a well run company, so when the bottom fell out of the economy and absolutely everything tanked,. I figured Ford was probably the most likely to be oversold. It was a speculative gamble, but it paid off.

I stayed the hell away from GM and Chrysler, which were also good decisions.

165 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:11:20pm

re: #131 Cato the Elder

The research that established a connection between vaccines and autism was done at academic institutions.

I am not a big fan of the argumentum ab auctoritate.

It was done by one person and it never held up to peer review. In academic circles Wakefield’s work was immediately questioned. The cure autism movement just latched onto it with false hope and went batshit. Here’s some good reading material:

plosbiology.org

166 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:11:57pm

re: #162 iceweasel

Aw, again that’s not original with me. But thanks!

I think I was the first person to use it here though, possibly. Not sure where that name started— definitely in 2008 somewhere in the leftysphere.

I’m still partial to Caribou Barbie myself.

167 jaunte  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:12:28pm

re: #163 Mr. Hammer

I’ve been watching Fox a long time, and I can tell you that even the teasers for upcoming news stories are taking the form of mini-editorials with an anti-Obama administration slant.

168 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:12:36pm

re: #155 Jeff In Ohio

Roger Ailes.

Ok, What about Roger Ailes?

169 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:13:11pm

re: #160 Cato the Elder

Okay. Well, I have difficulty judging the seriousness of something I don’t know about, but in this case, he was answering a question about feminism and women. It’s a different context than his radio show, if that’s where you heard it first.

But Limbaugh never takes the clown face off. Which is creepy.

170 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:13:11pm

re: #163 Mr. Hammer

Can you tell me why? Seriously, is it just Hannity, or do you think Hume’s reporting is slanted or unfair?

No. I can’t tell you why, because you’re playing stupid.

Try someone else on some other thread.

171 HoosierHoops  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:13:12pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I’m still partial to Caribou Barbie myself.

Doesn’t that come with a Barbie Helicopter and M-16?

172 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:13:31pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I’m still partial to Caribou Barbie myself.

Love that one! Excellent.

173 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:13:34pm

re: #164 SixDegrees

…so when the bottom fell out of the economy and absolutely everything tanked,. I figured Ford was probably the most likely to be oversold. It was a speculative gamble, but it paid off.

I stayed the hell away from GM and Chrysler, which were also good decisions.

I like a man who comes right out and tells you he’s looking out for himself; I distrust a man who says he’s not.

174 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:14:26pm

re: #127 prairiefire

Ford Explorer 1998
214,000 miles
Same engine and transmission
no rust
Heck, I even got 70K + miles out of the original Firestone tires before they were replaced for free ;)

175 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:14:31pm

re: #171 HoosierHoops

Doesn’t that come with a Barbie Helicopter and M-16?

You dont use an M-16 to hunt caribou!

176 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:14:55pm

re: #168 Mr. Hammer

After all these years registered, why is it this thread and the topic of Fox news that’s suddenly got you raring to post?

177 HoosierHoops  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:15:39pm

re: #175 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You dont use an M-16 to hunt caribou!

RPG?

178 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:15:40pm

re: #175 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What do you think of the XM-8? Not for hunting caribou, I mean.

179 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:15:48pm

re: #168 Mr. Hammer

Ok, What about Roger Ailes?

Major asshole.

180 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:16:08pm

re: #167 jaunte

I’ve been watching Fox a long time, and I can tell you that even the teasers for upcoming news stories are taking the form of mini-editorials with an anti-Obama administration slant.

Yeah, ok. I think you are probably correct there. But I think that the same thing went on during the previous administration too, didn’t it?

181 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:16:13pm

re: #136 SixDegrees

Ford deserves praise. They have very competent management, and if anyone could be said to be prospering during the current recession, it’s them. At least relative to their peers.

The short term future will be difficult for them, however. They avoided government intervention by taking on a lot of debt, and GM is now essentially debt-free. But five years out, my money’s on Ford.

when Alan went to Ford from Boeing… Boeing lost a good one.

182 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:16:36pm

Here is the NAS vindication of Mann’s work

nap.edu

183 darthstar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:16:43pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I’m still partial to Caribou Barbie myself.

After Levi’s book comes out, she’ll be known as Sarah Barracougar.

184 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:16:49pm

re: #153 Obdicut

In Rush’s early days on the radio he used to repeatedly say that. Rush is reusing old material since most of his current listeners weren’t listening in the early nineties. He’s pretty much driven away all his old listeners. Rush, like most of the Right is stuck in a time warp.

185 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:17:05pm

re: #177 HoosierHoops

RPG?

Personally, I’d say a dreadnought.

186 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:17:13pm

re: #171 HoosierHoops

Doesn’t that come with a Barbie Helicopter and M-16?

And a little figure of a bleeding she-wolf.

187 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:17:58pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

I guess I don’t know anything about him. But I also don’t find much to object to from O’Reilley, Hume, Smith, Greta, etc…

Just askin’

188 jaunte  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:18:14pm

re: #180 Mr. Hammer

Yeah, ok. I think you are probably correct there. But I think that the same thing went on during the previous administration too, didn’t it?

During the Bush years, the Fox slant was pro-administration. Just a gut feeling, but I’ll bet a serious quantitative study of the language used then vs. now would bear it out.

189 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:18:16pm

re: #165 Conservative Moonbat

It was done by one person and it never held up to peer review. In academic circles Wakefield’s work was immediately questioned. The cure autism movement just latched onto it with false hope and went batshit. Here’s some good reading material:

[Link: www.plosbiology.org…]

Wakefield’s work was published in The Lancet, a peer-reviewed journal. It was retracted yesterday by the publisher, 12 years after publication. There were many problems cited, most of which revolved around severe selection bias which rendered the extremely small sample of only 12 children statistically meaningless.

Several of the paper’s original ten coauthors published their own challenges to the work over the years, and both replication and supporting evidence never materialized. But the situation is unfortunately quite a bit more complex than a fraudulent publication, quickly discovered and exposed, case closed.

190 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:18:48pm

re: #178 Obdicut

What do you think of the XM-8? Not for hunting caribou, I mean.

Never touched one. Last I heard the project was dead.

191 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:19:09pm

This is a repost, but is should be noted that Mann has thousands of citations.

Let me please discuss what that means.

It’s a boring discussion about journal papers. However, there are some things I want to point out about scientific papers, peer review and journals in general.

The process is not perfect and I will give examples as I go. However, in some sort of ensemble average, it works well - or perhaps as well as possible.

So first off, not all journals are created equal. There are top flight, journals of note that are hard to get even a very good paper into.

If you are in physics they are PRL, Phys Rev, Nature and Science.

These journals strive to promote papers that they feel are of general import to a large community. The idea is that the paper is there to represent the newest and most important discoveries in a given field. Phys Rev is divided into several sub parts, for instance, phys rev D is particle physics. PRLs (physical review letters) are seen to be important for the whole physics community in principle and are short communications that frequently have a longer paper or two associated with them in Phys Rev or someplace else.

Getting into these journals does not make a paper perfect. There are dozens of great papers that should have gotten in and dozens that were flawed. In my own career, one of my first papers was actually pointing out flaws in a PRL and the group that wrote that paper later retracted their findings. However, their flaw was not glaring and they reported their results in good faith. They were just wrong. It happens and the main point of science is that the community scrutinizes work. It does not end at peer review.

After this tier of journals, there are more specialized journals. For instance, the British Journal of Fluids is huge and wonderful to be published in if you are a fluid dynamicist. More than once a paper that should have been in a “bigger journal” ended up in one of these journals and later became huge. Also more than once, it was a specialized paper that would be of great interest to a certain community, and that journal was the perfect one for it.

Beneath that tier, journals get either more specialized or more obscure.

Occasionally, as in rarely, a paper that later became huge but was way ahead of its time, or just not properly received, could only find its way into one of the more obscure journals. Sometimes these journals are a good place to publish a crazy idea that might be right… and if it turns out to be right, then you got it out there, and if it turns out to be crazy, well not many people read that journal…

The best measure of a paper is how many citations it has received. A paper with 500 citations is one that 500 other papers saw fit to mention as part of their arguments. A paper with over 500 citations is simply huge. 1000 citations is seminal.

In fact, a paper with 50 citations is very respectable. That means that 50 other researchers or research groups are using your stuff in their own arguments and presumably as part of their own story with their own results that also in turn back yours up.

Again rarely, a paper might languish for years and then get rediscovered only to later receive the response it deserves. This can happen for many reasons. But, this is rare.

Also it should be mentioned that proceedings of national academies are big deals too. A report from the National Academy or the Royal Society has been past many sets of eyes before publication. These are not trivial things.

So as a lay person looking at a sea of papers, if you see one with 500 citations from a top flight journal, chances are that science in it is very, very sound. If you see a paper with no citations from the Physical Journal of the East Slovenia fire fighters association, quite possibly much less so.

I bring this because if you look at the big papers and the big proceedings, you will find that AGW is supported and that Evolution is real.

On the other hand, the Disco Institute publishes elsewhere.

192 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:19:24pm

re: #187 Mr. Hammer

I guess I don’t know anything about him. But I also don’t find much to object to from O’Reilley, Hume, Smith, Greta, etc…

Just askin’

Right.

Just trollin’, you mean.

193 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:19:26pm

re: #183 darthstar

Have you been reading the Somethingawful parody articles?

I’m not going to link to them, because they are really chock full of crude humor, but they kind of nail the whole Levi thing from both sides.

194 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:20:23pm

re: #188 jaunte

During the Bush years, the Fox slant was pro-administration. Just a gut feeling, but I’ll bet a serious quantitative study of the language used then vs. now would bear it out.

Do you think slant at Fox is more egregious (in the opposite direction) than that at CNN MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc…??

195 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:22:35pm

re: #190 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, I heard of the cancellation as well. Not entirely sure why— a friend of mine was involved in the trials and said that they were awesome, especially in terms of maintenance and cleaning.

Maybe that’s the problem: If there aren’t tons of little gas ports to clean, what are the troops gonna do with all that time?

196 jaunte  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:22:57pm

re: #194 Mr. Hammer

Yes. I know I saw it at CNN in the past, but it’s much more blatant at Fox now.

197 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:23:12pm

re: #192 Cato the Elder

Right.

Just trollin’, you mean.

C’mon Mr. Cato. I’m sincere. And I’ve been registered here a long time. I just don’t have anything substantive to add to the AGW and Evolution threads, so I keep my mouth shut… I am curious about people’s opinions about this however.

198 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:24:30pm

re: #185 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Personally, I’d say a dreadnought.


[Video]

Holy hell! I want to eat the caribou, not drink what’s left of it.

199 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:25:32pm

re: #196 jaunte

Yes. I know I saw it at CNN in the past, but it’s much more blatant at Fox now.

It used to drive me crazy on NBC in the morning with Bryant Gumbel and Katie Couric. I found them to be so incredibly biased.

200 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:25:41pm

re: #195 Obdicut

Yeah, I heard of the cancellation as well. Not entirely sure why— a friend of mine was involved in the trials and said that they were awesome, especially in terms of maintenance and cleaning.

Maybe that’s the problem: If there aren’t tons of little gas ports to clean, what are the troops gonna do with all that time?

I believe their was a case of significant changes in performance between different rounds of testing, which led to the Government requesting new tests and new criteria and it kind of fell off the table from there.

201 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:27:04pm

re: #191 LudwigVanQuixote

You could make the same claim about the Kinsey Report, which is still cited in fresh work today, because everybody else has cited it since it first appeared. Even though it’s largely discredited.

Numerous or even numberless citations prove nothing. If they did, all the citations throughout the millennia of “thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” (Ex. 22:18) would tend to prove that witches exist and ought to be executed.

QED

202 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:27:13pm

re: #194 Mr. Hammer

Do you think slant at Fox is more egregious (in the opposite direction) than that at CNN MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc…??

It’s all slant, all bias. Every single news outlet since the first editorial depiction of The Great Mammoth Hunt on a cave wall has been biased or slanted.

203 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:27:50pm

re: #199 Mr. Hammer

It used to drive me crazy on NBC in the morning with Bryant Gumbel and Katie Couric. I found them to be so incredibly biased.

No wonder you find FOX a reasonable news outlet then./

204 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:28:29pm

re: #201 Cato the Elder

You could make the same claim about the Kinsey Report, which is still cited in fresh work today, because everybody else has cited it since it first appeared. Even though it’s largely discredited.

Numerous or even numberless citations prove nothing. If they did, all the citations throughout the millennia of “thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” (Ex. 22:18) would tend to prove that witches exist and ought to be executed.

QED

NO Cato not really at all. Not in the physical sciences. If there is a totally discredited paper still getting references after any period of time, it is as a null result.

205 gamark  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:29:05pm

re: #126 darthstar

And that’s never been a problem for them. / My next vehicle will likely be an American made one…I’m looking for a good ‘74 (or older) Ford pickup…I want a work-horse that isn’t just plastic crap.

You’ll be a one man agent of climate change in one of those bad boys. Though you probably should have made your move before the cash-for-clunkers silliness…

206 aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:29:25pm

re: #175 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You dont use an M-16 to hunt caribou!

well…you can…

207 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:29:51pm

re: #194 Mr. Hammer

Do you think slant at Fox is more egregious (in the opposite direction) than that at CNN MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc…??

No, Fox offers a nice counter balance to those hard leftwing news organizations you listed. Let’s face it, if it weren’t for Fox and their right wing propaganda machine, this country would be whistling the Internationale instead of on the verge of whistling Dixie (again!).

208 Locker  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:30:22pm

re: #175 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You dont use an M-16 to hunt caribou!

Yea you’d probably want to using something a bit bigger. That .22 long rifle projectile might not do the job on a caribou.

209 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:30:39pm

re: #203 allegro

No wonder you find FOX a reasonable news outlet then./

Yeah, I know you guys all hate Fox News. I was just hoping to get something more than “Fox News sucks” out of this. I want to understand what the beef is. My suspicion is that the beef is with Hannity and Beck. No?

210 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:30:42pm

*slow, low, whistle*…

Andrew Sullivan posted an especially vile attack on Sarah Palin this afternoon:

While I’m at it, does anyone actually believe that Palin’s name for the child of miraculous provenance was found by her deep knowledge of ancient Norse as she claims in her magical-realism novel, “Going Rogue”? I mean, seriously. She knows about as much ancient Norse as she does English grammar.

And the dextrosphere fires back:

See, Andrew, one doesn’t need a deep understanding of Norse mythology to have come across the Norse name “Trig.” There are, you see, a huge number of books about baby-names, and huge lists of such things available on the Internet…Did my parents know a great deal about the Gaelic origins of my name before they gave it to me? No, but I can tell you as soon as I was old enough to ask my mother could tell me what it was supposed to mean.

…is about the most repeatable riposte I’ve seen.

211 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:31:03pm

re: #209 Mr. Hammer

“you guys”? Who is “you guys”?

212 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:31:07pm
is should be noted that Mann has thousands of citations.

So does Wakefield, mentioned above regarding his paper published in The Lancet concerning an illusory link between immunization and autism, now retracted by the publishers. So do the Kinseys, whose work on human sexuality has been thoroughly debunked and exposed as outright fraud. A good deal of Margaret Mead’s work has also been shown to be fraudulent, yet continues to receive many citations to this day.

The number of citations has no bearing on the quality of the work. There are too many counterexamples showing otherwise. Rather, citations tend to beget more citations; a researcher sees a citation in an article, and heads straight for that paper; seeing several references only reinforces the curiosity. And the end result? Another paper containing a citation of the same work.

And it takes decades to purge discredited work from the system, just for that reason. People keep citing because they keep running across existing citations. Higher profile cases tend to get winnowed out more quickly, but those that don’t attract much publicity don’t generate enough ink for someone to stumble across. People are still citing the Kinseys to this day, and I have no doubt Wakefield will continue to be cited in many peer reviewed articles for many years to come.

A large number of citations is just a bigger pile; the number itself does nothing to help separate the wheat from the chaff.

213 Locker  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:31:18pm

re: #207 Jeff In Ohio

No, Fox offers a nice counter balance to those hard leftwing news organizations you listed. Let’s face it, if it weren’t for Fox and their right wing propaganda machine, this country would be whistling the Internationale instead of on the verge of whistling Dixie (again!).

I’m assuming you are kidding but did you really just call CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC and NBC “hard left wing news organizations”? If you aren’t kidding then I have another question… are you high?

214 HoosierHoops  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:31:46pm

re: #208 Locker

Yea you’d probably want to using something a bit bigger. That .22 long rifle projectile might not do the job on a caribou.

On full auto? I think she could drop that sucker.. Just not eat the meat all that well

215 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:32:07pm

re: #201 Cato the Elder

You could make the same claim about the Kinsey Report, which is still cited in fresh work today, because everybody else has cited it since it first appeared. Even though it’s largely discredited.

Numerous or even numberless citations prove nothing. If they did, all the citations throughout the millennia of “thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” (Ex. 22:18) would tend to prove that witches exist and ought to be executed.

QED

GMTA.

216 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:32:16pm

re: #212 SixDegrees

The number of citations has no bearing on the quality of the work.

That is completely false in the hard sciences, sorry. If you have lots of citations and are still cited, your work is good, relevant, and current.

217 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:32:27pm

re: #213 Locker

I’m assuming you are kidding but did you really just call CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC and NBC “hard left wing news organizations”? If you aren’t kidding then I have another question… are you high?

Only my hair dresser knows for sure!

218 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:32:50pm

re: #207 Jeff In Ohio

No, Fox offers a nice counter balance to those hard leftwing news organizations you listed. Let’s face it, if it weren’t for Fox and their right wing propaganda machine, this country would be whistling the Internationale instead of on the verge of whistling Dixie (again!).

I guess I just don’t think that those guys are hard left wing (Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann, aside), any more than I think Fox is hard to the right.

219 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:33:07pm

re: #208 Locker

Yea you’d probably want to using something a bit bigger. That .22 long rifle projectile might not do the job on a caribou.

Bull. McCandless Supertramp killed an Alaskan moose with a .22.

Then he starved to death because he didn’t know how to dress and cure the meat.

220 Locker  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:33:10pm

re: #214 HoosierHoops

On full auto? I think she could drop that sucker.. Just not eat the meat all that well

On full auto she probably wouldn’t hit it at all. She’d end up on her back with her stiletto Uggs all askew.

221 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:33:22pm

re: #209 Mr. Hammer

Yeah, I know you guys all hate Fox News. I was just hoping to get something more than “Fox News sucks” out of this.

So go over to Media Matters and search. I know you think they’re some lefty smear site like O’Reilly claims, but they ‘smear’ him by…posting what he’s actually said.
There’s transcripts, video, and more. Stay away from the opinion pieces and you’ll find loads of incontrovertible evidence about Fox.

222 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:33:37pm

re: #216 Obdicut

That is completely false in the hard sciences, sorry. If you have lots of citations and are still cited, your work is good, relevant, and current.

Thing to remember is, if a field has the word “science” in its name, it isn’t really a science.

223 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:33:47pm

re: #211 Obdicut

“you guys”? Who is “you guys”?

uh oh. I stepped in it. Not “you guys”
Sorry!!! :-)

224 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:34:08pm

re: #212 SixDegrees

Thank you.

225 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:34:27pm

re: #216 Obdicut

That is completely false in the hard sciences, sorry. If you have lots of citations and are still cited, your work is good, relevant, and current.

I suspect the disconnect here is over the term “cited”. Being cited by popular press who tends to pick up old, perhaps even long discredited data and conclusions, if it supports a particular thesis, is very different from being cited in scientific journals.

226 darthstar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:34:30pm

re: #193 Obdicut

Never heard of that site…looking at it now.

227 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:35:11pm

re: #221 iceweasel

thank you, Ice. I will.

228 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:35:21pm

re: #220 Locker

On full auto she probably wouldn’t hit it at all. She’d end up on her back with her stiletto Uggs all askew.

Upding for the image.

229 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:35:27pm

re: #226 darthstar

Oh really? Really? Joy awaits you.

Look at the Levi Johnston checks in stuff— Cato, this is for you too— but also check out the Fashion Swats. Find them under the ‘review’ section on the site map.

230 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:35:59pm

re: #227 Mr. Hammer

thank you, Ice. I will.

No problem. There’s tons of info there. I’d dig you up some links but I’m busy.

231 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:36:07pm

re: #213 Locker

I’m assuming you are kidding but did you really just call CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC and NBC “hard left wing news organizations”? If you aren’t kidding then I have another question… are you high?

He was mocking me. It’s ok!

232 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:36:09pm

re: #216 Obdicut

That is completely false in the hard sciences, sorry. If you have lots of citations and are still cited, your work is good, relevant, and current.

Like Kinsey, eh?

I wish I had your faith. Unfortunately my childhood vaccinations gave me an incurable case of skepticism.

233 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:37:14pm

re: #232 Cato the Elder

No, Kinsey was not a hard science. That’s social science. Totally different than something that’s model-able, testable, and depends on physics. And what I’m engaging in isn’t ‘faith’. It’s trust duly given to those who have earned it.

234 Locker  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:37:15pm

re: #231 Mr. Hammer

He was mocking me. It’s ok!

It’s not OK if he’s holding out on me. Puff, puff, pass mofaka!

235 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:37:32pm

re: #225 allegro

I suspect the disconnect here is over the term “cited”. Being cited by popular press who tends to pick up old, perhaps even long discredited data and conclusions, if it supports a particular thesis, is very different from being cited in scientific journals.

Not so much.

236 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:37:45pm

re: #232 Cato the Elder

Like Kinsey, eh?

I wish I had your faith. Unfortunately my childhood vaccinations gave me an incurable case of skepticism.

That’s great Cato, but not how it works in hard science. There is too much with the math and reproducible experiments and not things based on the statistics of small sample groups with psychological confounding factors.

237 iceweasel  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:37:52pm

re: #229 Obdicut

Oh really? Really? Joy awaits you.

Look at the Levi Johnston checks in stuff— Cato, this is for you too— but also check out the Fashion Swats. Find them under the ‘review’ section on the site map.

Favourited to check out later, thanks.

BBL, have a good day all.

238 jaunte  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:38:07pm

re: #223 Mr. Hammer

I’m basing my opinion of Fox partly on the fact that for the past three months at least, every morning I’ve had coffee at about the same time and watched Stuart Varney explain how our economy is going to hell because of decisions made by the Obama administration. It’s a simplistic point of view and it’s being hammered home every morning in what is billed as a news spot.

239 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:38:29pm

re: #235 Cato the Elder

Not so much.

No entirely different. Cited by another scientist in a journal is not cited by the MSM. Why would you even think that?

240 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:39:15pm

re: #238 jaunte

I never get to see ‘em in the morning…

241 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:40:08pm

re: #209 Mr. Hammer

They all suck in one way or another. Once a person realizes this, they can calibrate their bullshit filters more accurately.

242 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:40:36pm

re: #241 Slumbering Behemoth

agreed.

243 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:43:25pm

re: #239 LudwigVanQuixote

No entirely different. Cited by another scientist in a journal is not cited by the MSM. Why would you even think that?

Thanks, you got there before I did. Any scientist who cites discredited or even out of date data/conclusions, discredits his/her own paper and thus, possibly career. Yeah, it is entirely different.

244 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:43:27pm

re: #239 LudwigVanQuixote

No entirely different. Cited by another scientist in a journal is not cited by the MSM. Why would you even think that?

So, you think some guy writing a paper on climate science, when he sees Mann’s name cited by 2,631 other guys, goes back and checks to see if the work holds up?

No, he likely cites Mann because 2,631 other guys already did. And bingo!, Mann now has 2,632 citations.

It is meaningless. Or at best it has exactly the same value as the number of citations of Ann Coulter in right-wing rants.

245 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:43:57pm

re: #151 Mr. Hammer

OK, yes. Beck, of course. I forgot about him. But he is relatively new at Fox, and Fox had this reputation long before Beck arrived.

Also there’s the fact that they’ve recently hired Sarah Palin…

And… oh just watch these as a place to start, once again I know its recent but still…

246 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:44:38pm

re: #242 Mr. Hammer

agreed.

Excellent! Time for a beer, then.

247 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:44:46pm

re: #244 Cato the Elder

So, you think some guy writing a paper on climate science, when he sees Mann’s name cited by 2,631 other guys, goes back and checks to see if the work holds up?

No, he likely cites Mann because 2,631 other guys already did. And bingo!, Mann now has 2,632 citations.

It is meaningless. Or at best it has exactly the same value as the number of citations of Ann Coulter in right-wing rants.

Dude, that’s really not how it works in science, at all. If you cite a paper that’s not actually relevant to what you’re writing about, people laugh at you.

248 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:45:59pm

re: #194 Mr. Hammer

Do you think slant at Fox is more egregious (in the opposite direction) than that at CNN MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc…??

YES!

Show me an example of MSNBC showing deliberately misleading photage!

Show me a time MSNBC cut away from a Speech that Bush was giving while everyone else kept covering it…


249 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:47:13pm

re: #244 Cato the Elder

So, you think some guy writing a paper on climate science, when he sees Mann’s name cited by 2,631 other guys, goes back and checks to see if the work holds up?

Some guy writing for MSM, maybe not. A scientist who is looking for a continuing career, damn better, or the next question he/she will be asking is, “Do you want fries with that?”

250 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:48:41pm

re: #247 Obdicut

Dude, that’s really not how it works in science, at all. If you cite a paper that’s not actually relevant to what you’re writing about, people laugh at you.

Bull. If you’re writing about climate science and cite Mann, you get brownie points regardless of whether or not you’ve read him.

Unless you believe that hard science researchers are of a different species than the rest of us humans.

251 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:48:58pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

NO Cato not really at all. Not in the physical sciences. If there is a totally discredited paper still getting references after any period of time, it is as a null result.

A few years ago, the long-established speed of sound cited by thousands of works was actually measured - and found to be wrong. No one bothered to check it until then, but the traditional value was widespread and could always be traced back to the original publication.

And the distance from the equator to the pole along the prime meridian - the basis for the length of the meter - was not only incorrect, but was published with full knowledge by it’s authors that the methods used were faulty, without them ever acknowledging the errors.

It wouldn’t take long to come up with many other examples.

Citations pose a real problem for the peer review process. Once there are enough of them out there, they tend to perpetuate themselves, and there’s little that can be done about it. Purges take many, many years, sometimes decades.

252 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:51:22pm

re: #248 jamesfirecat

YES!

Show me an example of MSNBC showing deliberately misleading photage!

[Link: www.thedailyshow.com…]

Wow. that’s messed up, James. Thank you for sharing that…

253 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:51:34pm

re: #187 Mr. Hammer

I guess I don’t know anything about him. But I also don’t find much to object to from O’Reilley, Hume, Smith, Greta, etc…

Just askin’

So you found nothing offensive about the time Hume suggested Tiger Woods needed to convert because Budhisim didn’t offer the kind of forgivness that Christianity does?

254 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:51:41pm

re: #225 allegro

I suspect the disconnect here is over the term “cited”. Being cited by popular press who tends to pick up old, perhaps even long discredited data and conclusions, if it supports a particular thesis, is very different from being cited in scientific journals.

No; citations perpetuate themselves within peer reviewed literature; see above. As Cato pointed out, the Kinseys are cited to this day, despite having their published work severely discredited many years ago. It’s the nature of the peer review process and the weight placed on citations to other peer reviewed work.

255 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:51:45pm

re: #250 Cato the Elder

You have no clue what you’re talking about, Cato, I’m afraid. Sure, there’s an element of politics in who you choose to cite. That has no bearing on your claim: if you cite someone just because other people have cited them, and the citation doesn’t actually fit with what you’re saying and doesn’t actually prove your point, you’ll get laughed at. And if you use a citation that then gets discredited, your paper gets discredited along with it.

Science is bloody. Scientists go after each other with knives in reviews, in questions, in letters to PNAS. It’s not a mutual admiration society.

256 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:52:07pm

re: #134 aceofwhat?

Agreed, especially as they didn’t vacuum up our tax dollars in bailouts, at least not to the extent that some other automakers did. Funny what good quality and cars with great features that are worth driving will do to your bottom line…

The Pontiac G8 GXP is still the best sports sedan any American company has made in the last 20 years, if not longer. I am fine with Fords, but there are many many GM cars that are worth driving, and many Ford cars that have outdated technology. (cough Mustang live axle cough)

Ford has the best American compact on the market, that’s one thing they definitely have over GM. If only they’d bring the Focus RS here…

257 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:53:18pm

re: #256 WindUpBird

(not counting the new CTS-V, that thing is screaming insane. And also GM. take that, Ford)

258 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:53:29pm

re: #254 SixDegrees

By the way, in your little story about the speed of sound: In what medium? Do you have a link to that? I’ve never heard of it, and I love little science tidbits like that.

259 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:53:49pm

re: #218 Mr. Hammer

I guess I just don’t think that those guys are hard left wing (Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann, aside), any more than I think Fox is hard to the right.

Naw, man, I’m just fucking with you. I think Chris Matthews, on his best days, is a tool. Keith a blowhard. Same with Ed Shultze. I like Rachel Maddow in that snarky, New Gen way and Shep Smith has that kind of Ed Murrow thing going on.

Fox, well, from back slapping BushCo for 8 years to cheering the Tea Party into a movement, they seem to spend most of their time feeding America distortion and half truth. ABC, NBC, CBS…they have news departments? Roger Ailes, you can do your own homework, but I know a guy who worked with Roger media consultancy. Not a nice man. He has an agenda and a WHOLE fucking channel to put it across and he does it really really really well.

260 albusteve  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:54:55pm

re: #253 jamesfirecat

So you found nothing offensive about the time Hume suggested Tiger Woods needed to convert because Budhisim didn’t offer the kind of forgivness that Christianity does?

no…big whoop…like you should root for the Cowboys rather than the Lions, your football needs will be better met

261 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:55:33pm

re: #259 Jeff In Ohio

Maddow is the only major cable personality I can watch. Ed Schultz is COMPLETELY UNWATCHABLE

262 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:56:41pm

re: #254 SixDegrees

As Cato pointed out, the Kinseys are cited to this day, despite having their published work severely discredited many years ago.

As has been pointed out, the Kinsey work, while revolutionary for its time, is soft science and therefore subject to opinion. This does not apply to the hard sciences.

263 Locker  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:57:00pm

re: #256 WindUpBird

The Pontiac G8 GXP is still the best sports sedan any American company has made in the last 20 years, if not longer. I am fine with Fords, but there are many many GM cars that are worth driving, and many Ford cars that have outdated technology. (cough Mustang live axle cough)

Ford has the best American compact on the market, that’s one thing they definitely have over GM. If only they’d bring the Focus RS here…

The only American car I’ve had in the last 20 years that I really liked/enjoyed was my Buick Regal GS. Leather, 240 Horsies with a Super Charger for under 30k. LOVED that car.

264 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:57:15pm

re: #253 jamesfirecat

So you found nothing offensive about the time Hume suggested Tiger Woods needed to convert because Budhisim didn’t offer the kind of forgivness that Christianity does?

I saw that live. It was very weird, but not an example of the biased reporting I keep hearing about, IMHO.

265 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:57:21pm

re: #260 albusteve

no…big whoop…like you should root for the Cowboys rather than the Lions, your football needs will be better met

So you didn’t find anything horribly patronizing about having someone who is just suppose to be giving the news openly suggesting that his religion is better than someone elses.

Would you have been offended if Beck said that Mormanisim is better than being Catholic?

266 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:57:50pm

re: #262 allegro

I should add that conclusions to a trend or collection of data can have an element of opinion.

267 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:59:04pm

re: #255 Obdicut

You have no clue what you’re talking about, Cato, I’m afraid. Sure, there’s an element of politics in who you choose to cite. That has no bearing on your claim: if you cite someone just because other people have cited them, and the citation doesn’t actually fit with what you’re saying and doesn’t actually prove your point, you’ll get laughed at. And if you use a citation that then gets discredited, your paper gets discredited along with it.

Science is bloody. Scientists go after each other with knives in reviews, in questions, in letters to PNAS. It’s not a mutual admiration society.

Right. The Gods in White Coats play by different rules than fallible human beings.

Yawn. See you upstairs. —^

268 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:59:12pm

re: #266 allegro

Yeah, metareviews can get pretty wonky that way, especially in the decisions of what to include or leave out.

269 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 2:59:29pm

re: #263 Locker

The only American car I’ve had in the last 20 years that I really liked/enjoyed was my Buick Regal GS. Leather, 240 Horsies with a Super Charger for under 30k. LOVED that car.

Not too shabby! :D I’ve had a Buick, a 1975 Firebird, a Celebrity (a beater wagon that just would not die) and a Pontiac 6000. The Firebird was my dirtbag car in high school. Ahh, the days long by of cranking Maiden in the school parking lot…

270 cliffster  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:00:06pm

re: #265 jamesfirecat

It’s a joke. sheesh.

271 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:00:31pm

re: #265 jamesfirecat

So you didn’t find anything horribly patronizing about having someone who is just suppose to be giving the news openly suggesting that his religion is better than someone elses.

Would you have been offended if Beck said that Mormanisim is better than being Catholic?

I remember the segment… It was a roundtable, and as I recall the question was asked: “what advice would you give Tiger Woods right now?” So, of course it was just Hume’s opinion, and not portrayed as anything more.

O’Reilly had him on the Factor the following Monday and quizzed him about it. Hume said he stood by the advice.

272 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:00:56pm

Here’s a report on the speed of sound error, and how it propagated throughout the scientific literature without question for decades.

273 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:01:01pm

re: #267 Cato the Elder

They’re not gods, Cato. But I notice you’re not actually arguing, just asserting. So sure, see you upstairs.

When all your arguments are based in your own view of human nature being the most important thing to take into account, you’re not going to convince anyone of anything anytime soon.

274 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:01:20pm

Is there any responsibility to report FOI violations when you see them?

That email was a clear request to delete protected information. What kind of person does not report, or at least object that sort of certain violation?

275 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:01:36pm

re: #262 allegro

As has been pointed out, the Kinsey work, while revolutionary for its time, is soft science and therefore subject to opinion. This does not apply to the hard sciences.

Yes, it does. See above for two quick examples.

276 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:01:50pm

re: #268 Obdicut

Yeah, metareviews can get pretty wonky that way, especially in the decisions of what to include or leave out.

Exactly. Though deliberately rejecting data that doesn’t fit within a pre-determined conclusion is what gets the field into trouble. It’s entirely dishonest, and unfortunately does happen. That’s why I always support intense peer review.

277 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:03:00pm

re: #262 allegro

As has been pointed out, the Kinsey work, while revolutionary for its time, is soft science and therefore subject to opinion. This does not apply to the hard sciences.

One word: Lysenko.

278 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:04:23pm

re: #273 Obdicut

They’re not gods, Cato. But I notice you’re not actually arguing, just asserting. So sure, see you upstairs.

When all your arguments are based in your own view of human nature being the most important thing to take into account, you’re not going to convince anyone of anything anytime soon.

I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything ever.

279 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:04:38pm

re: #272 SixDegrees

Ah, in air. Figured it wasn’t water, there’s been too much research around that in the past forty years.

By the way, the error was of half a mile, and as you can see in that article:

In practice, engineering problems that rely on the speed of sound - from the reverberation time of concert halls to the onset of turbulence in air rushing over an airplane wing - usually have too much built-in imprecision to be affected by a refinement as small as Dr. Wong’s. His figure applies to dry air at 0 degrees centigrade and at standard atmospheric pressure at sea level. Outside a laboratory, the vagaries of temperature, humidity, air pressure and even the composition of air can all raise or lower the effective speed of sound by many miles an hour.

There wasn’t any research being done that was affected by the speed of sound that wasn’t overwhelmed by other factors. So it’s reasonable that a constant like that that was off by such a small margin would get overlooked.

It’s entirely possible that lots of constants in science are off by a similarly small margin. However, if they were significantly off, we’d know it as real-world testing would show it— and if they were in an area of active research, we’d definitely know it even before then. Kudos to him for finding it.

I think you might do well to reflect on this line from that article:

The fine-tuning of standards like the speed of sound is a habitual pursuit of scientists, an activity that combines scientific gamesmanship with the obsessive pursuit of perfection.

281 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:05:29pm

re: #272 SixDegrees

Here’s a report on the speed of sound error, and how it propagated throughout the scientific literature without question for decades.

As my son would say…”Oh, barnacles…”

282 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:05:58pm

re: #278 Cato the Elder

Well, it also makes you look silly when you make pronuncamentios about science. So if not for the sake of substance, think of the style.

283 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:06:50pm

re: #279 Obdicut

Half a mile per hour. PIMF. Though it’s actually closer to four-tenths.

284 Jack Burton  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:08:27pm

re: #256 WindUpBird

The Pontiac G8 GXP is still the best sports sedan any American company has made in the last 20 years, if not longer.

Agreed on this. When GM shuttered Pontiac, they should have moved that platform to Chevy and replaced the current crappy Impala with it.

285 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:09:00pm

re: #272 SixDegrees

Here’s a report on the speed of sound error, and how it propagated throughout the scientific literature without question for decades.

That is really interesting. I didn’t know this. Only an issue for extremely precise measurements though… Not a factor in architectural acoustics.

286 Kragar  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:09:07pm

re: #278 Cato the Elder

I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything ever.

You’ll need to convince me that you mean that.

287 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:12:36pm

re: #264 Mr. Hammer

I saw that live. It was very weird, but not an example of the biased reporting I keep hearing about, IMHO.

Fine, you want Biased Reporting? Welcome to my Daily Show Archive Binge, OF DOOOOOOMMMM!


Glenn Beck, spreading fear and selling gold, now way those two things could be connected!


Fox, ignoring a gay rights march to film an empty sidewalk….



Fox News, determined to badmouth Clinton even when he manages to get our citizens freed from North Korea without strings!

Fox News, lieing while showing photage that proves they are lieing!

Fox News women going about in scanty clothing is a horrible thing, up until it takes a patriotic turn!

Fox news, blaming Obama for coming up with a stimulius plan that works TOO WELL!


How is that for a start?

288 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:12:36pm

re: #277 Cato the Elder

And the AGW-deniers are the Lysenkoites in the current scientific world.

289 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:13:26pm

re: #271 Mr. Hammer

I remember the segment… It was a roundtable, and as I recall the question was asked: “what advice would you give Tiger Woods right now?” So, of course it was just Hume’s opinion, and not portrayed as anything more.

O’Reilly had him on the Factor the following Monday and quizzed him about it. Hume said he stood by the advice.

So if someone makes a mistake its okay as long as you stand by it?

290 albusteve  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:13:29pm

re: #265 jamesfirecat

So you didn’t find anything horribly patronizing about having someone who is just suppose to be giving the news openly suggesting that his religion is better than someone elses.

Would you have been offended if Beck said that Mormanisim is better than being Catholic?

I answer one question and you reply with two more, same as the first one

291 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:14:35pm

re: #290 albusteve

I answer one question and you reply with two more, same as the first one

Okay then, fair enough, you’re right its a free country, if you weren’t insulted by it, there’s nothing I can do to make you feel it was insulting.

292 albusteve  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:16:03pm

re: #291 jamesfirecat

Okay then, fair enough, you’re right its a free country, if you weren’t insulted by it, there’s nothing I can do to make you feel it was insulting.

I don’t see why anybody would be insulted…it’s all the same god, correct?

293 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:17:08pm

re: #287 jamesfirecat

Fine, you want Biased Reporting? Welcome to my Daily Show Archive Binge, OF DOOOMMM!

LOL!!!!
Ok, ok, James. You win! How could anyone possibly refute The archive binge of Dooommm???

I love it!

Since you went to the trouble of finding all of this stuff for me, I will check it all out and report back.

Thanks!

294 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:18:52pm

re: #292 albusteve

I don’t see why anybody would be insulted…it’s all the same god, correct?


Um, no. Given that as a Budhist, if he is truly following the Religion’s teachings (which I’ll admit he wasn’t doing such a hot job of rejecting material desires) Tiger Woods doesn’t believe in any “God” you care to name.

en.wikipedia.org

295 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:19:30pm

re: #287 jamesfirecat

Fine, you want Biased Reporting? Welcome to my Daily Show Archive Binge, OF DOOOMMM!

I heard that there were people out there that thought the Daily show was real…I just never thought I would meet on here.

296 albusteve  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:20:22pm

re: #294 jamesfirecat

Um, no. Given that as a Budhist, if he is truly following the Religion’s teachings (which I’ll admit he wasn’t doing such a hot job of rejecting material desires) Tiger Woods doesn’t believe in any “God” you care to name.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

I thought the statement you disagree with was from Brit Hume

297 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:21:17pm

re: #295 Buck

I heard that there were people out there that thought the Daily show was real…I just never thought I would meet on here.


It doesn’t say anything good about America but Jon Stewart was fairly recently voted the most trusted name in news…..

I don’t believe that the Daily Show is “impartial” but its not like they’re the Onion who are just making up their stories….

298 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:22:34pm

re: #296 albusteve

I thought the statement you disagree with was from Brit Hume

Well you can’t argue that “It’s all the same God” given Brit Hume’s quotes regarding Tiger Woods, because there is no “God” as we Christians think of a “God” in Budhists teachings.

I’ll admit my Glen Beck example was a little fuzzier being two different styles of Christianity…

299 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:22:49pm

And here’s a book which discusses in exacting detail the attempt to measure the length of the Paris (not the Prime, sorry) meridian, the errors, their subsequent coverup, and other sordid details.

300 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:25:08pm

re: #282 Obdicut

Well, it also makes you look silly when you make pronuncamentios about science. So if not for the sake of substance, think of the style.

Obdicut, I don’t give a flying fuck if you think I look silly.

Sheesh. As if any of this shit mattered in the great tragicomedy in which we live.

301 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:26:01pm

re: #272 SixDegrees

Here’s a report on the speed of sound error, and how it propagated throughout the scientific literature without question for decades.

It’s the extra CO2, don’t you see?
Or maybe slide rules…

302 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:26:03pm

re: #299 SixDegrees

Six, did you read this book?

303 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:26:10pm

re: #285 Mr. Hammer

That is really interesting. I didn’t know this. Only an issue for extremely precise measurements though… Not a factor in architectural acoustics.

True. It’s interesting, though, that the erroneous measurement propagated without any attempt to analyze or duplicate the experiment that obtained it for many years. It is still quite easy to find current references to the incorrect value in modern work, where the speed of sound is blithely cited to five significant digits, the last two of which are wrong.

Which is the whole point: the persistence of bad information in peer reviewed literature. It’s a very real problem with no satisfactory solution.

304 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:26:43pm

re: #300 Cato the Elder

Cato, you know how lame it looks when people post on the interwebs about how none of it really matters and how it’s all just a farce anyway?

You’re being one of those guys right now.

If you don’t want to lift a finger to help out with AGW, for whatever reason, that’s fine. But to continually comment on how it’s meaningless and then claim you don’t really care… it’s beneath you.

305 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:27:03pm

re: #302 Mr. Hammer

Six, did you read this book?

I did.

306 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:27:37pm

re: #297 jamesfirecat

It doesn’t say anything good about America but Jon Stewart was fairly recently voted the most trusted name in news…
I don’t believe that the Daily Show is “impartial” but its not like they’re the Onion who are just making up their stories…

LOL

Actually I would check that source. The most trusted name in news? Fox News. politico.com

AND the only person in America more popular than Glenn Beck is Oprah!

As much as the left would like you to believe that Glenn Beck is some kind of right-wing fringe pundit — the facts just don’t back that up.
According to the latest Harris Poll, the only person in America more popular than Glenn Beck is Oprah.
The top 5 are Oprah, Glenn Beck, Jay Leno, Ellen DeGeneres, and Hugh Laurie. Bill O’Reilly came in at number 10.

307 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:28:30pm

re: #298 jamesfirecat

[…] because there is no “God” as we Christians think of a “God” in Budhists teachings.

There are, however, two “d’s” in Buddhist, and there is no final “s” in the phrase “Buddhist teachings”.

308 Mr. Hammer  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:28:35pm

re: #305 SixDegrees

I will check it out. Looks like a good read. Thank you.

309 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:29:14pm

re: #306 Buck

So that’s what happened to Conan…

310 ryannon  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:30:21pm

re: #41 Varek Raith

The flounce over a dowsing thread is my favorite.
XD

LEAVE DOWSING ALONE!

And I’m not kidding.

311 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:30:49pm

re: #304 Obdicut

Cato, you know how lame it looks when people post on the interwebs about how none of it really matters and how it’s all just a farce anyway?

You’re being one of those guys right now.

If you don’t want to lift a finger to help out with AGW, for whatever reason, that’s fine. But to continually comment on how it’s meaningless and then claim you don’t really care… it’s beneath you.

Then how much more beneath you should it be to constantly jump my shit here? Let’s just mutually gaze.

And believe me, no one in the AGW hysteria camp wants my help.

312 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:31:26pm

re: #303 SixDegrees

True. It’s interesting, though, that the erroneous measurement propagated without any attempt to analyze or duplicate the experiment that obtained it for many years.

I’m just gonna toss something out here since it is outside of my field and I do not have any expertise in anything the speed of sound might be pertinent to. As I recall from my little kidhood, this was pretty much an exclusive realm of the US Air Force. I remember the first sonic booms as a little kid in OK near the Vance AF base where the experimental flights were being done. As such, peer review of the data was not possible, having to be based “on faith” as it were, due to the data not being reproduceable under other circumstances. I can se why data would be accepted without confirmation, since that confirmation wasn’t really possible.

313 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:34:19pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

Again, I can not overstate how terrible it is in the world of science to accuse someone of cooking their books. It is the prime thou shalt not of science.

People who get caught doing it, and they always do are booted out of the field forever.

[snip]

I agree, and so does the Guardian…

do not undermine the case that humans are causing climate change, and other studies have produced similar findings.

does not change the global picture of temperature trends.

Read the articles.

314 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:34:32pm

re: #311 Cato the Elder

I don’t think it’s at all beneath me to point out when an otherwise very smart and interesting person is stuck on a subject in an awkward way.

Charles himself has said much the same thing to you at some point or another, before you went on your tours.

315 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:36:52pm

re: #297 jamesfirecat

It doesn’t say anything good about America but Jon Stewart was fairly recently voted the most trusted name in news…

I don’t believe that the Daily Show is “impartial” but its not like they’re the Onion who are just making up their stories…

Looked into it, and the ‘poll’ you relate was an online poll on TIME mag online.

I should not have to tell you how screwed up all online polls are…Fans of Stewart could have easily gamed it. One post on a forum, and boom Stewart is #1. Ratings should confirm it a little bit, and in the news world Stewarts ratings are no where man…

316 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:37:07pm

re: #292 albusteve

I don’t see why anybody would be insulted…it’s all the same god, correct?

Yes, Jesus Christ.

317 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:37:55pm

re: #312 allegro

I’m just gonna toss something out here since it is outside of my field and I do not have any expertise in anything the speed of sound might be pertinent to. As I recall from my little kidhood, this was pretty much an exclusive realm of the US Air Force. I remember the first sonic booms as a little kid in OK near the Vance AF base where the experimental flights were being done. As such, peer review of the data was not possible, having to be based “on faith” as it were, due to the data not being reproduceable under other circumstances. I can se why data would be accepted without confirmation, since that confirmation wasn’t really possible.

Well, sonic booms are definitely an artifact of the speed of sound - specifically, exceeding it. But the speed of sound itself is fairly easy to measure in the lab, and was first measured in the late 1600s by timing the difference between the flash of a canon muzzle and the subsequent report, over a distance of about 12 miles. He came up with 1147 feet per second, pretty close to the actual value of ~1130 fps.

318 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:41:25pm

re: #314 Obdicut

I don’t think it’s at all beneath me to point out when an otherwise very smart and interesting person is stuck on a subject in an awkward way.

Charles himself has said much the same thing to you at some point or another, before you went on your tours.

Oh my. I shall immediately retract anything I’ve ever said that both you and Charles might disagree with.

You pompous little twerp.

319 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:41:25pm

re: #94 iceweasel


Reminder: the definition of a ‘slut’ is usually a woman who’s not fucking you.

I thought those were lesbians?//

320 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:41:29pm

re: #315 Buck

Looked into it, and the ‘poll’ you relate was an online poll on TIME mag online.

I should not have to tell you how screwed up all online polls are…Fans of Stewart could have easily gamed it. One post on a forum, and boom Stewart is #1. Ratings should confirm it a little bit, and in the news world Stewarts ratings are no where man…

Yes because ratings are a measurement of how truthful someone is and not how popular they are!

321 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:41:58pm

re: #317 SixDegrees

He came up with 1147 feet per second, pretty close to the actual value of ~1130 fps.

Interesting. Thanks. I love that stuff.

322 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:42:27pm

re: #306 Buck

LOL

Actually I would check that source. The most trusted name in news? Fox News. politico.com ml

AND the only person in America more popular than Glenn Beck is Oprah!

As much as the left would like you to believe that Glenn Beck is some kind of right-wing fringe pundit — the facts just don’t back that up.
According to the latest Harris Poll, the only person in America more popular than Glenn Beck is Oprah.
The top 5 are Oprah, Glenn Beck, Jay Leno, Ellen DeGeneres, and Hugh Laurie. Bill O’Reilly came in at number 10.

If Glen Beck isn’t some kind of rightwing fringe pundit, why is it that everyone here including Charles seems to view him as such a…. well right wing fringe pundit/freakazoid nut sandwitch?

323 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:44:06pm

re: #315 Buck

Looked into it, and the ‘poll’ you relate was an online poll on TIME mag online.

I should not have to tell you how screwed up all online polls are…Fans of Stewart could have easily gamed it. One post on a forum, and boom Stewart is #1. Ratings should confirm it a little bit, and in the news world Stewarts ratings are no where man…

Oh and I look into your Harris Poll on Glen Beck being popular it was done online also!

“These are some of the results of The Harris Poll® of 2,276 adults surveyed online between December 7 and 14, 2009 by Harris Interactive®.”


So why is my online poll worthless while yours is a perfect gauge of how the people of America feel?

324 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:46:28pm

Thinking of sonic booms… as a little kid in Enid, OK, a bunch of us kids were sitting on the floor watching the family B&W TV premier of the classic King Kong movie. Just as the great beast pounded the huge restraining wall with his massive fist… a sonic boom. Scared the crap outa bunch of little kids.

325 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:48:45pm

re: #320 jamesfirecat

Yes because ratings are a measurement of how truthful someone is and not how popular they are!

People for the most part will watch and listen to people they trust. We are talking about trust. Year after year…. the numbers are so incredible… it can’t be just a mistake.

The poll you used was useless.

The most trusted name in News? Fox News. Period. Like it or not, it is NOT Stewart (who is going to be on O’Reilly tonight).

A Public Policy Polling nationwide survey of 1,151 registered voters Jan. 18-19 found that 49 percent of Americans trusted Fox News, 10 percentage points more than any other network.

Thirty-seven percent said they didn’t trust Fox, also the lowest level of distrust that any of the networks recorded.

Stewart doesn’t even make the list.

Read more: politico.com

326 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:51:39pm

re: #318 Cato the Elder

Man, you’re an intentionally hard person to talk to. I’m not asking you to retract a damn thing. I’m telling you that you’re wrong about many of the things you say about science. I’ve explained why.

It’d be great if you suddenly decided to do the opposite, and start saying smart and insightful things about science and AGW. I’d love that. But your current state of simply pooh-poohing all of science based on Lysenkoism is a very foolish one.

That you call me pompous for telling you that you’re wrong and you might want to stop saying things that are wrong, that actually approaches irony.

327 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:51:44pm

re: #323 jamesfirecat

Oh and I look into your Harris Poll on Glen Beck being popular it was done online also!

“These are some of the results of The Harris Poll® of 2,276 adults surveyed online between December 7 and 14, 2009 by Harris Interactive®.”

So why is my online poll worthless while yours is a perfect gauge of how the people of America feel?

I didn’t think I would have to explain this. For the Harris poll respondents for this survey were selected. The Time mag poll was a click on this page poll, easily gamed.

328 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:53:04pm

re: #326 Obdicut

Man, you’re an intentionally hard person to talk to. I’m not asking you to retract a damn thing. I’m telling you that you’re wrong about many of the things you say about science. I’ve explained why.

It’d be great if you suddenly decided to do the opposite, and start saying smart and insightful things about science and AGW. I’d love that. But your current state of simply pooh-poohing all of science based on Lysenkoism is a very foolish one.

That you call me pompous for telling you that you’re wrong and you might want to stop saying things that are wrong, that actually approaches irony.

I agree, and so does the Guardian…

do not undermine the case that humans are causing climate change, and other studies have produced similar findings.

does not change the global picture of temperature trends.

Read the articles.

329 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:54:48pm

re: #328 Walter L. Newton

Agree with what, Walter?

330 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:55:10pm

re: #325 Buck

People for the most part will watch and listen to people they trust. We are talking about trust. Year after year… the numbers are so incredible… it can’t be just a mistake.

The poll you used was useless.

The most trusted name in News? Fox News. Period. Like it or not, it is NOT Stewart (who is going to be on O’Reilly tonight).

A Public Policy Polling nationwide survey of 1,151 registered voters Jan. 18-19 found that 49 percent of Americans trusted Fox News, 10 percentage points more than any other network.

Thirty-seven percent said they didn’t trust Fox, also the lowest level of distrust that any of the networks recorded.

Stewart doesn’t even make the list.

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com…]

Notice the severe difference between weather Republicans trust Fox News or not?

What if the Republicans trust Fox News, because Fox news spits out Republican talking points which those people have been trained to trust regardless of if they’re true or not?

How trustworthy news is should be the result of fact checking it against cold hard reality, not its inherent “truthyiness”.

331 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:55:29pm

re: #322 jamesfirecat

If Glen Beck isn’t some kind of rightwing fringe pundit, why is it that everyone here including Charles seems to view him as such a… well right wing fringe pundit/freakazoid nut sandwitch?

Ya…. I get that. But he is popular.

conducted online is not the same as an online poll. One you can easily vote multiple times, and recruit other to vote…. and one you can’t.

332 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:55:55pm

re: #330 jamesfirecat

Notice the severe difference between weather Republicans trust Fox News or not?

What if the Republicans trust Fox News, because Fox news spits out Republican talking points which those people have been trained to trust regardless of if they’re true or not?

How trustworthy news is should be the result of fact checking it against cold hard reality, not its inherent “truthyiness”.

Notice the difference between weather Republicans or Democrats trust Fox News or Not, I meant to say…

333 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:57:09pm

re: #331 Buck

Ya… I get that. But he is popular.

conducted online is not the same as an online poll. One you can easily vote multiple times, and recruit other to vote… and one you can’t.

What does being popular have to do with anything important by the way?

334 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:57:25pm

re: #329 Obdicut

Agree with what, Walter?

Read the articles and get back to me. And stop playing dumb, it’s getting old, and obvious.

335 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:59:07pm

re: #333 jamesfirecat

What does being popular have to do with anything important by the way?


When I was in high school, that was the only thing that was important.

336 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 3:59:16pm

re: #334 Walter L. Newton

I have no clue what you’re asking me to agree to or with. I’ve read the articles. I read them awhile ago. I have no clue what you think they prove.

You constantly accuse me of playing dumb when I try to get you to clearly explain what you’re getting at. It’s getting old, and obvious.

337 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:00:53pm

re: #336 Obdicut

I have no clue what you’re asking me to agree to or with. I’ve read the articles. I read them awhile ago. I have no clue what you think they prove.

You constantly accuse me of playing dumb when I try to get you to clearly explain what you’re getting at. It’s getting old, and obvious.

Then simply read the article, I would like your opinion.

338 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:03:58pm

re: #336 Obdicut

I have no clue what you’re asking me to agree to or with. I’ve read the articles. I read them awhile ago. I have no clue what you think they prove.

You constantly accuse me of playing dumb when I try to get you to clearly explain what you’re getting at. It’s getting old, and obvious.

It proves there is problems with the process, procedure and protocol of some of these sainted scientists… and as Ludwig said above…

Again, I can not overstate how terrible it is in the world of science to accuse someone of cooking their books. It is the prime thou shalt not of science.

People who get caught doing it, and they always do are booted out of the field forever.

I wonder what happens next.

339 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:04:05pm

re: #330 jamesfirecat

Notice the severe difference between weather Republicans trust Fox News or not?

What if the Republicans trust Fox News, because Fox news spits out Republican talking points which those people have been trained to trust regardless of if they’re true or not?

How trustworthy news is should be the result of fact checking it against cold hard reality, not its inherent “truthyiness”.

What if? What if? I should not even answer what ifs…

Every newscast can make mistakes, especially if they are 24 hours a day. The standard to be perfect is very different for a producer who has 4-5 weeks to create a 20 min segment show (60 mins)….

BUT Stewart is FAKE! He admits that he manipulates the video to make it FUNNY.


So only Republicans watch news? Or do you think there are more people in the USA who are Republicans by a margin of 10%?

The question is simple, and more republicans and democrats answered fox news than anyone else by a 10% margin.

AND this is backed up by the ratings… FOX news swamps everyone else.

340 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:05:03pm

re: #337 Walter L. Newton

Do you remember that we’ve talked about those articles, you and I, before, or not?

341 allegro  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:05:55pm

re: #338 Walter L. Newton

It proves there is problems with the process, procedure and protocol of some of these sainted scientists… and as Ludwig said above…

Again, I can not overstate how terrible it is in the world of science to accuse someone of cooking their books. It is the prime thou shalt not of science.

People who get caught doing it, and they always do are booted out of the field forever.

Oh, wow. That’s what you accuse them of doing?

342 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:14:29pm

re: #333 jamesfirecat

What does being popular have to do with anything important by the way?

You brought up how unpopular he is here…His popularity (or lack of it here on LGF) was your point.

Jon Stewart is popular with the MTV / Rolling Stone crowd BUT that doesn’t mean anything about trust.

And his clips are funny, but not real news.

343 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:18:38pm

re: #339 Buck

What if? What if? I should not even answer what ifs…

Every newscast can make mistakes, especially if they are 24 hours a day. The standard to be perfect is very different for a producer who has 4-5 weeks to create a 20 min segment show (60 mins)…

BUT Stewart is FAKE! He admits that he manipulates the video to make it FUNNY.

So only Republicans watch news? Or do you think there are more people in the USA who are Republicans by a margin of 10%?

The question is simple, and more republicans and democrats answered fox news than anyone else by a 10% margin.

AND this is backed up by the ratings… FOX news swamps everyone else.

Once again I argue with you that ratings do not mean squat in terms of how truthful things are.

Everyone stops to look at a car crash.


If a person selling asprin and telling you it can cure AIDS can draw a big enough crowd does that mean he’s telling the truth?

344 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:20:49pm

re: #339 Buck

What if? What if? I should not even answer what ifs…

Every newscast can make mistakes, especially if they are 24 hours a day. The standard to be perfect is very different for a producer who has 4-5 weeks to create a 20 min segment show (60 mins)…

BUT Stewart is FAKE! He admits that he manipulates the video to make it FUNNY.

So only Republicans watch news? Or do you think there are more people in the USA who are Republicans by a margin of 10%?

The question is simple, and more republicans and democrats answered fox news than anyone else by a 10% margin.

AND this is backed up by the ratings… FOX news swamps everyone else.

Was there anything “Fake” about those Hamas cartoons Stuart showed the next thread over?

345 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:22:48pm

re: #342 Buck

You brought up how unpopular he is here…His popularity (or lack of it here on LGF) was your point.

Jon Stewart is popular with the MTV / Rolling Stone crowd BUT that doesn’t mean anything about trust.

And his clips are funny, but not real news.

Actually, no, you brought up popularity first in #306, or prove me wrong!

346 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:23:39pm

re: #343 jamesfirecat

Once again I argue with you that ratings do not mean squat in terms of how truthful things are.

Everyone stops to look at a car crash.

If a person selling asprin and telling you it can cure AIDS can draw a big enough crowd does that mean he’s telling the truth?

Month after month, year after year? If only it were that easy.

347 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:27:04pm

re: #346 Buck

Month after month, year after year? If only it were that easy.

Well there’s no fairness doctrine in place, so who are you going to believe Glenn Beck or your lieing eyes?

Or are you going to say that Americans are too smart to fall for something like that?

348 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:28:43pm

re: #345 jamesfirecat

Actually, no, you brought up popularity first in #306, or prove me wrong!

You said that Jon Stewart was fairly recently voted the most trusted name in news”. I was trying to show that it could not be. And it isn’t.

Fox News is the most trusted and I was trying to show, that despite his reputation here… Glenn Beck must be doing something right.

Do you really think that “Jon Stewart was fairly recently voted the most trusted name in news??

349 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:30:22pm

re: #348 Buck

You said that Jon Stewart was fairly recently voted the most trusted name in news”. I was trying to show that it could not be. And it isn’t.

Fox News is the most trusted and I was trying to show, that despite his reputation here… Glenn Beck must be doing something right.

Do you really think that “Jon Stewart was fairly recently voted the most trusted name in news??

Okay I’m seeing the problem.

Do you equate “trustworthy” and “popular” as the same thing?

350 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:36:08pm

re: #348 Buck

You said that Jon Stewart was fairly recently voted the most trusted name in news”. I was trying to show that it could not be. And it isn’t.

Fox News is the most trusted and I was trying to show, that despite his reputation here… Glenn Beck must be doing something right.

Do you really think that “Jon Stewart was fairly recently voted the most trusted name in news??

Also…

I don’t necessarily believe that Jon Stewart is the most trustworthy man in news, but I don’t doubt my “lieing eyes” that in this particular poll timepolls.com he was voted most trustworthy.

We can argue back and forth over what that poll means, and likewise the poll that says Fox News is the most Trustworthy, but you don’t deny the existence of the poll do you?

351 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:37:24pm

re: #347 jamesfirecat

Well there’s no fairness doctrine in place, so who are you going to believe Glenn Beck or your lieing eyes?

Or are you going to say that Americans are too smart to fall for something like that?

Yes, that is what I am saying. Forget about Glen Beck for a minute. He might be todays fish. I don’t know. I mean Keith Olbermann was once pretty popular, BUT today he is nothing. Maybe that will happen to Glenn Beck, BUT look at the FOX NEWS ratings: (for example)

Cable News 8pm, 12/28/09-1/29/10
Show Net Adults 25-54 (000)
The O’Reilly Factor Fox News 983
Nancy Grace Headline News 282
Countdown With Keith Olbermann MSNBC 263
Campbell Brown CNN 233

tvbythenumbers.com

Now add up the other three, and you don’t have FOX News numbers. The car crash is CNN… not Fox News.

352 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:39:47pm

re: #351 Buck

Yes, that is what I am saying. Forget about Glen Beck for a minute. He might be todays fish. I don’t know. I mean Keith Olbermann was once pretty popular, BUT today he is nothing. Maybe that will happen to Glenn Beck, BUT look at the FOX NEWS ratings: (for example)

Cable News 8pm, 12/28/09-1/29/10
Show Net Adults 25-54 (000)
The O’Reilly Factor Fox News 983
Nancy Grace Headline News 282
Countdown With Keith Olbermann MSNBC 263
Campbell Brown CNN 233

[Link: tvbythenumbers.com…]

Now add up the other three, and you don’t have FOX News numbers. The car crash is CNN… not Fox News.

You realize you’re arguing for Wikireality don’t you?

“If something is popular it must be right/true”

353 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:40:00pm

re: #350 jamesfirecat

Also…

I don’t necessarily believe that Jon Stewart is the most trustworthy man in news, but I don’t doubt my “lieing eyes” that in this particular poll [Link: www.timepolls.com…] he was voted most trustworthy.

We can argue back and forth over what that poll means, and likewise the poll that says Fox News is the most Trustworthy, but you don’t deny the existence of the poll do you?

On the web there are joke polls. Anyone with any real experience knows this. The Time Poll cannot even tell you anything about the voter, except where they voted from, based on the IP address. Nothing about male/female…or even age. It could be a poll of 16 y/o girls. It is a joke.

354 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:41:52pm

re: #352 jamesfirecat

You realize you’re arguing for Wikireality don’t you?

“If something is popular it must be right/true”

Not at all. It would be nice to continue this, but I am done.

355 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:45:48pm

re: #354 Buck

Not at all. It would be nice to continue this, but I am done.

Okay then, well its a shame because I couldn’t wait for you to finally get around to explaining to me how it was impossible that people who got such ratings must by nature be utterly incapable of telling lies!

You know what didn’t get high ratings?

Firefly!
Arrested Development!
Sarah Connor Chroncials!

The fact that these three shows went down the tubes and yet Glen Beck’s ratings are through the roof leaves me with me with with me with precious little confidence in the mental capacity of Fox’s viewing audience.

356 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:46:19pm

For what it’s worth, a poll asking for the most trustworthy is pre loaded in too many ways to list. It’s a garbage question in this context. People tend to watch the news they LIKE the most.

I can’t stand that shrieking harpy Nancy Grace, but I suspect she is trustworthy most of the time.

Glenn Beck is untrustworthy much of the time, when he isn’t just plain stupid, but I watch him sometimes or I wouldn’t know.

I think Fox News is trustworthy in reporting the conservative and right wing perspective. Sometimes they are even trustworthy in reporting the loony perspective.

See what I mean?

357 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 4:46:44pm

re: #355 jamesfirecat

Okay then, well its a shame because I couldn’t wait for you to finally get around to explaining to me how it was impossible that people who got such ratings must by nature be utterly incapable of telling lies!

You know what didn’t get high ratings?

Firefly!
Arrested Development!
Sarah Connor Chroncials!

The fact that these three shows went down the tubes and yet Glen Beck’s ratings are through the roof leaves me with me with with me with precious little confidence in the mental capacity of Fox’s viewing audience.


DAM IT!
“Okay then, well its a shame because I couldn’t wait for you to finally get around to explaining to me how it was impossible that people who got such ratings must by nature be utterly incapable of telling lies!”

Should have been

“”Okay then, well its a shame because I couldn’t wait for you to finally get around to explaining to me how people who got such ratings must by nature be utterly incapable of telling lies!”


Curse you lack of an edit button!

358 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:00:07pm

re: #340 Obdicut

Do you remember that we’ve talked about those articles, you and I, before, or not?

These just came out yesterday. Check the dates. You’re so transparent.

359 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:05:42pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

Monday is not yesterday, Walter.

This is a good article in that vein, though:


How the ‘climategate’ scandal is bogus and based on climate sceptics’ lies


Did you read that one?

360 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:13:33pm

re: #359 Obdicut

Monday is not yesterday, Walter.

This is a good article in that vein, though:

How the ‘climategate’ scandal is bogus and based on climate sceptics’ lies

Did you read that one?

That article leaves out the FOI scandal. The head of the organization is telling people under him to delete protected data (emails) as part of avoiding FOI. Everyone seems to gloss that one over…

361 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:14:18pm

re: #360 Buck

That article leaves out the FOI scandal. The head of the organization is telling people under him to delete protected data (emails) as part of avoiding FOI. Everyone seems to gloss that one over…

that would be because it is a non scandal.

362 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:16:27pm

re: #359 Obdicut

Ob, I am so sorry that you need to deal with the denier trolls that come out and play at the end of every AGW thread. They think they are clever and all. Normally I would be really glad to help you swat them for stupid. However, I apologize that I am too tired to deal with that much dumb right now.

363 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:16:58pm

re: #360 Buck

Everyone seems to gloss that one over…

Everyone glosses over that, nobody calls Obama on his lies… there must be some kind of conspiracy!

re: #362 LudwigVanQuixote

I can handle your light work.

364 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:17:54pm

re: #363 Obdicut

Everyone glosses over that, nobody calls Obama on his lies… there must be some kind of conspiracy!

re: #362 LudwigVanQuixote

I can handle your light work.

Rock on with your bad self!

365 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:19:31pm

re: #326 Obdicut

Man, you’re an intentionally hard person to talk to. I’m not asking you to retract a damn thing. I’m telling you that you’re wrong about many of the things you say about science. I’ve explained why.

It’d be great if you suddenly decided to do the opposite, and start saying smart and insightful things about science and AGW. I’d love that. But your current state of simply pooh-poohing all of science based on Lysenkoism is a very foolish one.

That you call me pompous for telling you that you’re wrong and you might want to stop saying things that are wrong, that actually approaches irony.

There are enough people around here saying smart and insightful (read: parroting what others consider smart and insightful) things about science and AGW. What you and they need is a foil. You can thank me later.

I will say this for you: Your terrier-like bien-pensant earnestness is really rather amusing. It took me a while to see the humor, intentional or not. Please never change!

366 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:21:05pm
One email that has received much media attention was sent to Mann by Phil Jones, then director of the UEA’s Climatic Research Centre, on 29 May 2008. It asked Mann to delete some emails regarding the 2007 IPCC report.

—-From the OP

So Phil Jones in an email with FOI in the subject line asks Mann to delete some emails (protected information) regarding the 2007 IPCC report.

No scandal? Please explain how someone in authority can ask others to delete FOI protected information and it not be a scandal?

367 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:31:13pm

re: #365 Cato the Elder

Foil. Yeah. That’s the ticket. You’re being a foil. It’s all calculated, you see. It’s not that you actually thought that AGW wasn’t happening. It was part of a clever plan to be a ‘necessary’ foil.

That’s a Limbaugh/Beck level excuse.

But it’s all just a tragicomedy anyway, so you can always excuse any action or inaction on your own part anyway.

368 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:32:25pm

re: #365 Cato the Elder

There are enough people around here saying smart and insightful (read: parroting what others consider smart and insightful) things about science and AGW. What you and they need is a foil. You can thank me later.

I will say this for you: Your terrier-like bien-pensant earnestness is really rather amusing. It took me a while to see the humor, intentional or not. Please never change!

Cato there is one thing about being a foil, there is another thing to obfuscate the science or deny the peer review and citation process.

Ok I get that you are playing fun and games, but this is uncool.

369 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:33:26pm

re: #367 Obdicut

“Arf! Arf!” goes the terrier.

370 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:36:35pm

re: #369 Cato the Elder

“You’re inconsequential, it’s all a tragicomedy!” shouts the strange, funny man.

“Well, at least I don’t say silly things about how science works that contradict reality and expect to be taken seriously” says the terrier.

“Talking dog, goldmine!” says the old man.

Alas, the dog will never speak again, except on the topic of the invention of shoelaces, where he bores everyone to tears.

371 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:37:44pm

re: #370 Obdicut

And apologies for orthographic mistakes, rushing out the door at work.

372 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:37:57pm
373 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:42:22pm

re: #368 LudwigVanQuixote

Cato there is one thing about being a foil, there is another thing to obfuscate the science or deny the peer review and citation process.

Ok I get that you are playing fun and games, but this is uncool.

I have never been cool in my life.

But I do understand quite clearly when I’ve stepped on scientific or religious toes. A distinction without a difference, actually, since the victims in all cases yell “ouch!” and get angry in exactly the same way.

Sigh. Once again, for the benefit of people as dense as Obdicut: I have never “denied” AGW. I am merely extremely skeptical of the proposed remedies. As are, apparently, the majority of those who attend international conferences on the matter.

I am also skeptical about putting a fence around “hard science” and claiming special status for it.

And I know that human history is a tragicomedy, with emphasis on the first two syllables, and I adjust my expectations accordingly.

If what you want from me is another voice automatically whispering “amen” to received wisdom, look elsewhere. There are plenty of those here.

374 Buck  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 5:53:39pm

re: #366 Buck

—-From the OP

So Phil Jones in an email with FOI in the subject line asks Mann to delete some emails (protected information) regarding the 2007 IPCC report.

No scandal? Please explain how someone in authority can ask others to delete FOI protected information and it not be a scandal?

Or not…. gloss over seems to be the way to go about Phil Jones and the FOI scandal.

375 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:23:23pm

re: #373 Cato the Elder

Oh cut me a break. There is such a thing as settled science. It really does work and it is not as if I haven’t linked everyone here dozens of respectable papers covering all sorts of different facets of this story.

It is not possible for it all to be lies or all to be misleading. This is not about ego or saying ouch. This is about wondering why you are bothering to play this game. So please spare me the false indignation and other brave talk abut how you are some crotchety independent thinker. If you have a real beef amke it. If not, don’t play games. If you want to spout nihilism then fine, you always do, yes yes, everyone is fucked…

The science says not yet and we have a chance to still do something.

Now care to be part of the solution or to remain part of the problem?

376 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:28:48pm

re: #375 LudwigVanQuixote

Now care to be part of the solution or to remain part of the problem?

Every carbon-dioxide-exhaling human being is part of the problem.

And I can’t afford a goddam Prius.

Tell you what, if you think my agreeing with you on a blog is going to improve our chances, I hereby agree to agree with everything you say from here on in.

Feel better?

377 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:40:48pm

re: #65 cliffster

Any measure to correct for global warming, cap and trade or otherwise, will have a huge negative economic impact. And in parallel greatly increases government participation in corporate activities, from the supply chain to manufacturing. That makes people look for reasons to doubt it. It’s not because they are grouchy.

I seem to remember similar outcries when pollution was the target for taxes. Didn’t seem to do much lasting damage.
re: #330 jamesfirecat

Notice the severe difference between weather Republicans trust Fox News or not?

What if the Republicans trust Fox News, because Fox news spits out Republican talking points which those people have been trained to trust regardless of if they’re true or not?

How trustworthy news is should be the result of fact checking it against cold hard reality, not its inherent “truthyiness”.

Here you go, a comment by the polling company mentioned in the Politico.com article:

“A generation ago you would have expected Americans to place their trust in the most neutral and unbiased conveyors of news,” said PPP President Dean Debnam in his analysis of the poll. “But the media landscape has really changed, and now they’re turning more toward the outlets that tell them what they want to hear.”

378 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:44:51pm

re: #340 Obdicut

Do you remember that we’ve talked about those articles, you and I, before, or not?

Some questions are more difficult than others.

379 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 6:52:26pm

re: #376 Cato the Elder

Every carbon-dioxide-exhaling human being is part of the problem.

And I can’t afford a goddam Prius.

Tell you what, if you think my agreeing with you on a blog is going to improve our chances, I hereby agree to agree with everything you say from here on in.

Feel better?

Dude, did I shit in your cheerios this morning? I don’t remember doing that.

380 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 7:04:16pm

re: #373 Cato the Elder

You also had no clue that we had made a worldwide agreement to ban CFCs successfully, and managed to repair the damage to the ozone layer.

So maybe there’s a few things for you left to learn after all.

381 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 7:04:33pm

re: #353 Buck

On the web there are joke polls. Anyone with any real experience knows this. The Time Poll cannot even tell you anything about the voter, except where they voted from, based on the IP address. Nothing about male/female…or even age. It could be a poll of 16 y/o girls. It is a joke.

Online polls are a joke, PZ Myers routinely gets his minions to change outcomes.

382 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 7:43:03pm

re: #373 Cato the Elder

I have never been cool in my life.

But I do understand quite clearly when I’ve stepped on scientific or religious toes. A distinction without a difference, actually, since the victims in all cases yell “ouch!” and get angry in exactly the same way.

I can think of a few other reasons than ‘religion’ for people to yell “ouch” and get angry. As for the two cases looking exactly the same, that apparently isn’t an objective observation.

Science is adversarial. Occasionally a scientist will try to fudge his work. If it gets published, and is interesting enough for other scientists to consider, it gets reviewed. Usually the reviewer will find the crap and be only too happy to point it out. The journal gets slapped. The referees get slapped. Papers citing the original get slapped.

It isn’t simple. It isn’t fool-proof. It is constantly evolving and being reviewed. It does, however, work better than anything else found.

Don’t bother trusting the scientists, don’t bother trusting the politics, but you might consider trusting the process, it seems to have worked pretty well the last few hundred years. At least my computer, my toaster and my iPod seem to think so.

383 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 7:51:54pm

re: #380 Obdicut

You also had no clue that we had made a worldwide agreement to ban CFCs successfully, and managed to repair the damage to the ozone layer.

So maybe there’s a few things for you left to learn after all.

Whether I learn what you think I ought to learn will have no effect on anything.

384 Pythagoras  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 8:29:06pm

re: #182 LudwigVanQuixote

Here is the NAS vindication of Mann’s work

[Link: www.nap.edu…]

Very interesting. Click on the summary, then on page 2 to get here:

books.nap.edu

Notice that the graph only shows three multi-proxies going back a thousand years. Since one of them is by Mann & Jones, we can’t use that one to validate Mann’s work. The other two (Moberg and Esper) both show a higher max temperature 1000 years ago than the recent max.

385 Pythagoras  Wed, Feb 3, 2010 8:36:02pm

Correction — I should have said “data sets” instead of “multi-proxies.” Esper is tree-rings only.

386 Chainik  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 3:55:43am

This is my first post. I used to be a bit of a skeptic about AGW because I didn’t know anything. When Climategate happened, I read that the hacked data was posted on a server in Tomsk. I know that Tomsk hackers have a reputation for attacking Kremlin targets. The FSB (KGB) encourages them, but may not actually do the hacking. I wrote about this on my blog, and about a week later the British press started talking about Tomsk hackers. The FSB sometimes doesn’t do things directly, they encourage hackers to do it.
The FSB has actually commissioned studies about global warming. The Russsians are worried about it because the permafrost is melting and this will complicate getting oil and gas; still, they have decided to deal with problems as they arise. The Gazprom is very powerful—Andrei Illarionov used to work for them. He is a critic of these AGW scientists, and he has a Russian think tank and is at the Cato Institute. He’s not a scientist. He’s an advocate for oil interests.
Russian skeptics are not on the same page in the Russian media. Some say the scientists lied because they hid cooling. Others say the scientists lied because they overstated warming. They can’t have done both. This is why you don’t look at e-mail; you look at published research.
Russian scientists can be brave and do distance themselves from anti-scientific (KGB) propaganda. The Russians can’t afford to alienate their scientists, so sometimes science trumps the KGB. For example, the Soviet Academy of Sciences distanced themselves from the KGB-inspired propaganda that the US made AIDS. Finally the KGB admitted they had been behind that propaganda. One thing is that there is more discussion in the Russian press about global warming. It’s a good thing. I have a blog that discusses Russian views of global warming.
www.legendofpineridge.blogspot.com

387 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 3:59:51am

re: #386 Chainik

Welcome. I’ll check your blog later. Note: you are on a “dead” thread. If there is to be any action this AM, it will be on the thread at the top of the front page, the “Overnight”. Just caught you because I was scanning Masterspy.

388 MKELLY  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 6:28:05am

The below is from a Mann email. Ya he doesn’t want to hide anything. He does even care if there is no data just contain the MWP. The guy is not a good scientist.


I think that trying to adopt a timeframe of 2000 years, rather than the usual 1000 years, addresses a good earlier point that Jonathan Overpeck made … that it would be nice to try to “contain” the putative “Medieval Warm Period”, even if we don’t yet have data available that far back.

389 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 7:38:11am

re: #384 Pythagoras

Very interesting. Click on the summary, then on page 2 to get here:

[Link: books.nap.edu…]

Notice that the graph only shows three multi-proxies going back a thousand years. Since one of them is by Mann & Jones, we can’t use that one to validate Mann’s work. The other two (Moberg and Esper) both show a higher max temperature 1000 years ago than the recent max.

There are more studies than that covered. They all tell the same story and every damn thread about AGW, you have to show up with some slure or distortion or other silly thing to say. It really got. Read the damn data, read the damn study. Actually do that rather than lglance through it in the hopes of finding something to quibble with and then, since you don’t even glance very hard, getting it wrong.

390 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 7:42:53am

re: #388 MKELLY

The below is from a Mann email. Ya he doesn’t want to hide anything. He does even care if there is no data just contain the MWP. The guy is not a good scientist.

I think that trying to adopt a timeframe of 2000 years, rather than the usual 1000 years, addresses a good earlier point that Jonathan Overpeck made … that it would be nice to try to “contain” the putative “Medieval Warm Period”, even if we don’t yet have data available that far back.

Yes, this is because if you looked at the damn data, you would find that there is not so much of a medieval warm period. I know you peope are busy assuming there is some conspiracy, but you really are wrong. You miss that ALL the data is in the papers. They did not hide stuff and they did not fudge it. If they had, the NAS would not have vindicated them.

You keep bringing the same stuff again and again, but you never read the actual papers themselves.

If you did, you would not have the doubts you do.

If you really doubt Mann, then read the NAS vindication and review of work in the field as a whole. It is linked here. The NAS report covers everything you could ever want to know about the topic of proxy data and other studies (which also support Mann’s findings).

Actually reading that would show you gave a damn about the topic and cared about the truth. Why not try?

391 MKelly  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 8:11:08am

re: #390 ludwigvanquixote

No link found.

392 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 8:25:55am

re: #391 MKelly

No link found.

Really? No link found? Why in this very thread I linked to the NAS report.

Here it is again.

nap.edu

Read it!

393 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 9:24:18am

re: #388 MKELLY

You obviously do not have the slightest clue what any of that means, but hey! It sounds so incriminating, doesn’t it? Pathetic.

394 MKelly  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 9:42:37am

re: #392 LudwigVanQuixote

So “plausible” not factual and they say Mann was not correct in his declaration. I read this and found it wanting in many areas. They disregard 150 years of CO2 measurements, disregard the Armgah(sp) temperatures from 1659 on. And they argue a point that no one disagrees with that the temperature has been warming since the middle- end of the LIA(little ice age). All in all this validates the Wegman report. Does nothing to show that CO2 is the cause of warming.

Below is from the report you asked me to read:


Based on the analyses presented in the original papers by Mann et al. and this newer supporting evidence, the committee finds it plausible that the Northern Hemisphere was warmer during the last few decades of the 20th century than during any comparable period over the preceding millennium. The substantial uncertainties currently present in the quantitative assessment of large-scale surface temperature changes prior to about A.D. 1600 lower our confidence in this conclusion compared to the high level of confidence we place in the Little Ice Age cooling and 20th century warming. Even less confidence can be placed in the original conclusions by Mann et al. (1999) that “the 1990s are likely the warmest decade, and 1998 the warmest year, in at least a millennium” because the uncertainties inherent in temperature reconstructions for individual years and decades are larger than those for longer time periods, and because not all of the available proxies record temperature information on such short timescales. However, the methods in use are evolving and are expected to improve.

395 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 9:54:39am

re: #394 MKelly

I should have said read and comprehend. I have never seen such a willful distortion of something you obviously did not read before in my life.

The data are the facts.

The data are incriminating.

If you honestly doubt that we are getting warmer, then you are insane.

You are also missing all of the other evidence out there that is linked to again and again.

ncdc.noaa.gov

There are the direct temperature measurements.

396 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 9:56:55am

re: #394 MKelly

Also don’t cherry pick asshole.

How about this quote:

Despite these limitations, the committee finds that efforts to reconstruct temperature histories for broad geographic regions using multiproxy methods are an important contribution to climate research and that these large-scale surface temperature reconstructions contain meaningful climatic signals. The individual proxy series used to create these reconstructions generally exhibit strong correlations with local environmental conditions, and in most cases there is a physical, chemical, or physiological reason why the proxy reflects local temperature variations.

397 MKelly  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 10:46:54am

re: #396 LudwigVanQuixote

You folks just can’t help yourselves when it comes to name calling.

I have never disagreed that we are getting warmer. I cite the Armgah(sp) temperature readings as proof we are getting warmer. And I stated they argue a point no one disagrees with that the temperture has gone up since the middle-end of the Little Ice age. I also have stated on this site I am glad for global warming or the Upper Peninsula of Michigan would still be under several thousand feet of ice. So get a grip.

So please read what I wrote before you start slinging names around.

And I agree with the quote you cite about multiproxie reconstructs. They are of some value.

I just disagree with what Mann did and how he did it. Also the report you ask me to read agrees that Mann was wrong.

Conclusions are in the report to be read.

398 Cato the Elder  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 11:29:45am

re: #395 ludwigvanquixote

If you honestly doubt that we are getting warmer, then you are insane.

I for one have no doubt you’re getting warmer. You start sparking off epithets when your indignation level spikes.

What I do wonder about is why you bother. You know an AGW denier or two will show up at the end of every one of these threads. They like to see you splutter. Why shoot gnats with cannon?

As for me, I know I am getting cooler. So cool, in fact, that I am going to skip all future AGW threads and concentrate on not doing anything to raise the temperature.

399 badger1  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 2:56:40pm

re: #398 Cato the Elder

Cato,

Please do not avoid the global warming threads. Without your insight they would be entirely worthless.

400 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 4, 2010 11:37:36pm

re: #397 MKelly

You folks just can’t help yourselves when it comes to name calling.

I have never disagreed that we are getting warmer. I cite the Armgah(sp) temperature readings as proof we are getting warmer. And I stated they argue a point no one disagrees with that the temperture has gone up since the middle-end of the Little Ice age. I also have stated on this site I am glad for global warming or the Upper Peninsula of Michigan would still be under several thousand feet of ice. So get a grip.

So please read what I wrote before you start slinging names around.

And I agree with the quote you cite about multiproxie reconstructs. They are of some value.

I just disagree with what Mann did and how he did it. Also the report you ask me to read agrees that Mann was wrong.

Conclusions are in the report to be read.

NO I call you stupid and intractable because you are.

You seem fail to recall that the entire reason for the report, which vindicated Mann, and is not wrong, and does not say he was wrong, said the word plausible, because it was answering a GOP charge that it was all implausible.

Get it?

Morons like you said it was implausible.

They say it is plausible.

Then a moron like you says plausible means wrong or not certain or whatever, when in reality it was a direct answer to the charges leveld by fools like you at the time.

The report completely vindicated him and the entire idea of using proxy reconstructions. It further brought multiple other studies which backed up the work.

But of course you could not be bothered to ever read and learn. You always bring the same shit, lies and cherry picking to the end of every one of these threads.

So that brings me to the main point.

You simply disagree with Mann and how he did his work?

Really?

On what basis?

Or let me ask that another way.

Who the fuck are you, a non scientist to disagree with the methodology of any scientist, particularly if you have not read it? What give you the right to spread aspersions about the work of a talented and dedicated man who is in the field, cited thousands of times, and actually knows what he is talking about?

Who the fuck do you think you are?

401 MKELLY  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 6:21:17am

re: #400 LudwigVanQuixote

My name is right there for you to see. I do not hide behind false names. And actually by your post above I think I am a better person than you. I choose to disagree amicably without vitriol. You do not.

The conclusion on the report, which I read as asked, says that less confidence can be placed in Mann’s saying what he said about the 1990’s or 1998. That’s the conclusion of the report. You cannot get around that by calling people names. So the Wegman report and this report agree in that respect.

You say I bring lies. Please point them out and I will gladly correct them.

Plausible means “seemly true, acceptable, often implying disbelief. or seemingly honest, trustworthy, often implying distrust” So by the use of the word in the report it indicates some level of disbelief or distrust in what was done. It is a report you chose so you live with what it says.

If Mann’s graph was correct and he believed it there would be no reason for him to want to “contain” the MWP “even if they don’t have data that far back”. To me this shows he is not an honest broke with regard to information.

402 rjpv  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 1:15:09am

LGF is still overlooking a key point on the climate change e-mail scandal. The e-mails reveal scientists acting contrary to the basic standards of our peer review system. It is unacceptable to attempt to undermine other groups or journals by pressuring editors and reviewers. It is unacceptable to attempt to hide data, especially from your critics.

That this was all done to advocate a particular course of political action is and should be a real warning to scientists. If we mix advocacy and science, our credibility is shot. No one will publicly criticize Jones because they cannot do so without also influencing the climate change debate, but everyone recognizes that this has stirred up real problems.

Nature and Science (the top scientific journals) have both put out headline editorials now calling for a renewed focus on scientific standards and ethics. I wish more non-scientists would pick up on this.

403 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 10:08:03am

And yet another sleeper wakes up.

404 rjpv  Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:59:04pm

I’m flattered you noticed! Yes, that was my first comment. I signed up months ago but I’m not much of a commenter, apparently. Thanks, Charles. Love the photography by the way.


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