O’Keefegate Photographer Speaks

Politics • Views: 2,300

The Andrew Breitbart-Max Blumenthal slugfest continues, as Blumenthal posts a short interview with “Isis,” the woman who took the photograph of Breitbart employee James O’Keefe at the “Race and Conservatism” event in 2006: Isis: O’Keefe “Was There,” Involved In “Execution”.

I followed up with Isis. She told me in no uncertain terms that she had witnessed O’Keefe engaged in the “execution” of the white nationalist event of the Robert Taft Club.

“What I told Weigel and what I told him to quote me as saying, is that O’Keefe was involved the same way you would be involved if you went to a party and you put out the cups and stocked the cooler,” Isis told me. “He was helping Marcus Epstein in the execution of the event so I don’t see what the issue is. It was obvious that he was there supporting the event and was involved in its execution.”

Isis added more about her discussion with Weigel. “I told him the same thing I told you,” she remarked to me. “O’Keefe and Luke Pelican and the Leadership guys helped Epstein because they were friends with Marcus [Epstein], and they are friends with him because they agree with his views on the race stuff. And I told him when O’Keefe got there he was helping Marcus set the event up. Nitpicking over where he sat is bullshit. I mean, enough is enough. They were there; they were helping out with the event and they can’t deny that.”

Isis also told me that Weigel told her that Andrew Breitbart, the right-wing blogger who has had O’Keefe on his payroll, “was acting like a f*cking nutcase.”

UPDATE at 2/5/10 2:49:22 pm:

Here’s an account of the “Race and Conservatism” conference at the hate site American Renaissance (Google cache link): American Renaissance News: Race And Conservatism Debated At The Robert A. Taft Club (No Thanks To The Leadership Institute).

This was not some kind of harmless debate like you might see on Phil Donahue. The event was highly controversial and was nearly canceled, until black conservative Kevin Martin was invited as cover. Other “establishment conservatives” had agreed to attend but backed out when they discovered Jared Taylor was the featured speaker. Quote from the AmRen post:

It’s interesting to note, however, that Taft Club organizer Marcus Epstein said he’d invited several other Establishment conservatives to speak, most of whom initially agreed to come but then backed out when they discovered Jared Taylor would be on the platform.

And there’s a very good reason for that controversy, because Taylor’s views are repugnant.

All of this is straight from the horse’s mouth at American Renaissance, Taylor’s site. So the argument that this was just some innocuous “debate” doesn’t hold water.

(Hat tip: wrenchwench.)

UPDATE at 2/5/10 3:22:47 pm:

A couple more points about the American Renaissance article…

First, it’s clear that they were involved in the organization of this event, along with the far right Robert A. Taft Club. If groups like these are the organizers, why would it be incorrect to refer to this as a “white nationalist conference?”

Second, notice that American Renaissance’s Kevin Carter can barely hide his contempt for black conservative speaker Kevin Martin:

Kevin Martin was the next to speak. He opened by lamenting how difficult it is to be a Republican in the black community. He blamed most of the problems that blacks face on the fact that “self-appointed leaders” like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have conditioned blacks to believe in a culture of victimization that prevents them from ever taking responsibility for their own problems.

Nevertheless, Martin seemed to blame the media for most of the negative stereotypes about blacks. His speech was also full of the usual banalities, such as “we’re all members of one race: the human race,” etc. Nevertheless, Martin should be praised for rejecting the culture of victimhood that he described.

Their differences with Martin stem from the fact that they consider him to be genetically inferior to a white man. That’s why they sneer at his comment that the media are to blame for negative stereotypes — to them, the stereotypes are true and it’s Martin himself who is to blame, because that’s how black people are.

It’s a profoundly sick world view. This is why decent people shun the Jared Taylor crowd.

Jump to bottom

627 comments
1 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 1:55:37pm

May I have some free roadhouse coffee?

With some of that powdered stuff that makes it white?

Ah hell.

2 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 1:57:29pm

Coo hairs?

3 Jack Burton  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 1:57:42pm

re: #1 Ojoe

May I have some free roadhouse coffee?

With some of that powdered stuff that makes it white?

Ah hell.

"Leaded or Unleaded?"

4 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 1:59:11pm

re: #3 ArchangelMichael

Leaded of course.

Hot twisting lead.

I should quit making comments, these are useless.

BBL

5 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 1:59:18pm

OK, so who are you gonna believe?

The actual organizer, Marcus Epstein, says O'Keefe was not involved with organizing it. The picture of him manning a table with racist literature has not surfaced, only a cropped photo of him. There is no way that is all Isis got...

AND it is not really proven that it was white nationalist event.
In FACT Black conservative Kevin Martin, was one of several panelists at the Robert Taft Club ‘Race and Conservatism’ event in 2006, and he relates that he "had the chance to personally meet James O’Keefe after the event ended. He voiced personal support for me and my positions. He also repudiated the radical elements in the room that night."

or you can believe Isis.

6 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 1:59:49pm

I wonder if Breitbart will retweet that? The bit about him acting like a fucking nutcase.
Wouldn't be surprised. Here's a recent tweet.

you guys are striking out trying destroy America's preppy anti-corruption superhero! about 4 hours ago from web in reply to MonaMonaBlue

James O'Keefe: America's preppy anti-corruption superhero?

Nah, I think "shitbag" still works better.

7 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:00:28pm

This kind of reminds me of the discussions of Obama mingling at a cocktail party at the home of a Weatherman bomber......or sitting on a board with him.///

8 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:00:46pm

Did they have cinnamon buns?

9 Stanghazi  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:02:18pm

re: #5 Buck

OK, so who are you gonna believe?

The actual organizer, Marcus Epstein, says O'Keefe was not involved with organizing it. The picture of him manning a table with racist literature has not surfaced, only a cropped photo of him. There is no way that is all Isis got...

AND it is not really proven that it was white nationalist event.
In FACT Black conservative Kevin Martin, was one of several panelists at the Robert Taft Club ‘Race and Conservatism’ event in 2006, and he relates that he "had the chance to personally meet James O’Keefe after the event ended. He voiced personal support for me and my positions. He also repudiated the radical elements in the room that night."

or you can believe Isis.

You do know who Marcus Epstein is, don't you?

10 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:02:24pm

re: #5 Buck

Why not believe Marcus Epstein?
This is from C&L, about Daryl Jenkins' response so far:

First off, you can't say that those who have written about your boy James O'Keefe attending a white racist forum is a lie when you yourself are publishing a story where he admits to going. Secondly, you are not going to make the charge of racism go away when that same article is downplaying a racist idiot like Jared Taylor, an editor of a white supremacist newsletter (who by the way is organizing a conference of white supremacists in Washington DC the same weekend as the Conservative Political Action Conference), as a guy who is just someone "with a track record of making racist statements." Thirdly, you might also want to think twice about pretending that if someone calls him a white supremacist when he is not white, it doesn't mean forum organizer Marcus Epstein (whose claim to fame besides working for Pat Buchanan and Tom Tancredo is karate-chopping a black woman in the street and calling her the n-word while drunk off his behind) is not a racist that doesn't work with white supremacists.

11 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:02:44pm

re: #6 iceweasel
Don't hold back, ice....//

12 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:02:55pm

re: #9 Stanley Sea

You do know who Marcus Epstein is, don't you?

Clearly not.

13 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:03:38pm

I sure hope we get to the bottom of this. I would hate to think that O'Keefe, under a cloud of these accusations, would get elected to.. wait.. what is he running for again?

14 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:03:46pm

re: #9 Stanley Sea

You do know who Marcus Epstein is, don't you?

He is a racist, anti-Semitic little Korean with a Jewish name. Tricksy!

/

15 recusancy  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:03:50pm

re: #5 Buck

Who's Kevin Martin?

16 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:04:52pm

re: #13 cliffster
....The border.//

17 Stanghazi  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:05:00pm

re: #13 cliffster

I sure hope we get to the bottom of this. I would hate to think that O'Keefe, under a cloud of these accusations, would get elected to.. wait.. what is he running for again?

Well then hell, let's defend the asshole. What have we got to lose?

18 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:05:14pm

re: #11 tradewind

Don't hold back, ice...//

Sorry. I really can't stand Breitbart, and that was typical Brietbart there....of the many titles O'Keefe may turn out to deserve, "America's preppy anti-corruption superhero" isn't going to be one of them.

19 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:06:07pm

On the one hand, we've got people saying the guy was handing out racist literature at a racist event and helping his racist event-organizing friend. On the other hand, the "proof" consists of a cropped photo and the photographer's insistence that she understands O'Keefe's motives ("they were friends... because they agree... on the race stuff") and #5 quotes a witness who says he voiced disagreement with the racists.

I don't yet know who to believe. But I do love the drama.

20 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:06:24pm

re: #17 Stanley Sea
Nothing but a little bias, it would seem.
We don't really know shiite yet. Why not see what shakes out here?

21 American-African  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:06:49pm

This is looking more and more like a non story to me. Though I do not necessarily take the attendance of a "black" speaker to mean the event was not what it has been represented to be.

It would be interesting to see a photo of O'keefe sitting with neo-nazi literature in front of him. Just to se how Breitbart and Hannity spin it.

22 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:07:10pm

re: #17 Stanley Sea

Well then hell, let's defend the asshole. What have we got to lose?

have at it.

23 American-African  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:07:45pm

re: #16 tradewind

...The border.//

LOL, and an upding.

24 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:08:22pm

re: #15 recusancy

Who's Kevin Martin?

He plays shooting guard for the Sacramento Kings.

Er, wait...

25 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:09:09pm
if you went to a party and you put out the cups and stocked the cooler,” Isis told me.

Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, 7 up, Nehi Grape, Tonic water, Gin, Iced coffee, Perrier, San Pelligrino, Red Tail Ale, Guiness, Vodka, Grappa, Jameson, Lipton's, Egg Nog, Low-fat milk, Campari, Cognac, Root Beer, Grog, Orange Juice, Grapefruit juice, V-8 juice, Carrot juice.

26 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:09:57pm

re: #23 American-African
Seriously.... I don't know what the story is yet. But if there were a pole with tar and feathers handy, he'd be riding already.//

27 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:11:22pm

re: #5 Buck

AND it is not really proven that it was white nationalist event.

I can't prove it, but I have some pretty good evidence.

28 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:11:54pm

Who is this fertility goddess' namesake anyway, Isis?
Not for nothing, but there may be a fertile imagination at work here.

29 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:12:21pm

re: #25 Ojoe
Okay, now I'm thirsty.

30 recusancy  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:12:24pm

re: #26 tradewind

Seriously... I don't know what the story is yet. But if there were a pole with tar and feathers handy, he'd be riding already.//

Poor him. He can join his pals Acorn on that pole.

31 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:12:49pm

re: #28 tradewind

Isis sounds like a self given hippie name to me.

32 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:13:43pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

I can't prove it, but I have some pretty good evidence.

Well done.
(No snark; excellent links)

33 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:13:50pm

re: #29 tradewind

Which one?

& feel free to add.

It is Friday after all.

(LGF the humor site.)

34 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:14:48pm

re: #28 tradewind

Who is this fertility goddess' namesake anyway, Isis?
Not for nothing, but there may be a fertile imagination at work here.

at the end of the day if it is all true, it's still all legal. distasteful yes but legal all the same.

35 mich-again  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:15:32pm

Andrew's words..

For those in the mainstream media committed to report the false and libelous narrative of “Watergate Jr.,” “wiretapping” and “bugging,” I predict much egg on your J-school grad faces. In your rush to judgment to convict James O’Keefe and his companions, you vengeful political partisans of press forgot to ponder: “Was Mr. O’Keefe up to one of his patented and obvious clown nose-on hidden camera tricks, trying to make his subjects look foolish?” ...
36 recusancy  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:16:05pm

re: #34 brookly red

at the end of the day if it is all true, it's still all legal. distasteful yes but legal all the same.

Except for the whole phone tapping thing.

37 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:17:04pm

re: #36 recusancy

Except for the whole phone tapping thing.

that is the other thread...

38 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:17:45pm

re: #30 recusancy
I have no idea what that means, but I get that you're not an O'Keefe fan, which means we have at least some shred in common.//
But I don't have any reason to hate the guy, either. Not yet.

39 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:18:14pm

re: #36 recusancy

Except for the whole phone tapping thing.

The whole phone tapping a US Senator thing? Oh, that's no big deal, it's just a little treason is all, nothing major...

///

40 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:18:35pm

re: #25 Ojoe

Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, 7 up, Nehi Grape, Tonic water, Gin, Iced coffee, Perrier, San Pelligrino, Red Tail Ale, Guiness, Vodka, Grappa, Jameson, Lipton's, Egg Nog, Low-fat milk, Campari, Cognac, Root Beer, Grog, Orange Juice, Grapefruit juice, V-8 juice, Carrot juice.

You forgot the champagne splits. :D

41 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:18:42pm

re: #31 Ojoe

Isis sounds like a self given hippie name to me.

The only Isis I've ever met was a stripper. She was a nice lady.

42 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:19:43pm

meanwhile, I'd like to see O'Keefe, or anybody, put on their clown nose and expose the people behind this.

43 recusancy  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:19:43pm

re: #38 tradewind

I have no idea what that means, but I get that you're not an O'Keefe fan, which means we have at least some shred in common.//
But I don't have any reason to hate the guy, either. Not yet.

I'm betting you've casted a judgement on ACORN. We don't know that story as well. So O'Keefe is getting a taste of his own medicine.

44 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:19:56pm

re: #37 brookly red

that is the other thread...

Well, that one is long enough that its easier to just start again here for those who came in late.

45 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:20:25pm

re: #40 Dark_Falcon

"Champagne Splits"

"Chilled glasses"

There you go!

46 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:20:39pm

re: #41 RogueOne

The only Isis I've ever met was a stripper. She was a nice lady.

I'm not gonna it. It's too easy.

47 ryannon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:20:46pm

re: #40 Dark_Falcon

You forgot the champagne splits. :D

And the Moxie!

Image: Moxie_1_.jpg

48 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:20:47pm

re: #41 RogueOne

I salute her.

49 darthstar  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:22:15pm

Breitbart "acting like a fucking nutcase"? I'll believe that when I see---oh, yeah...I see what she means now.

50 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:22:31pm

BBL

51 recusancy  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:22:35pm

re: #42 cliffster

meanwhile, I'd like to see O'Keefe, or anybody, put on their clown nose and expose the people behind this.

Image: us_presidents_hr.gif

52 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:22:59pm

re: #41 RogueOne

The only Isis I've ever met was a stripper. She was a nice lady.

ALL of them are "nice" to you. Would you buy a lap dance from someone that wasn't !?!?!?!

53 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:23:50pm

re: #52 sattv4u2

ALL of them are "nice" to you. Would you buy a lap dance from someone that wasn't !?!?!?!

Some like that sort of thing, but you have to pay extra.

54 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:24:05pm

re: #42 cliffster

meanwhile, I'd like to see O'Keefe, or anybody, put on their clown nose and expose the people behind this.

Oy ,,, my head!

55 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:24:30pm

re: #51 recusancy

[Link: t4w.blogs.com...]

Uhhh, I don't get it. The last one has nicer hair?

56 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:24:43pm
57 recusancy  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:25:00pm

re: #55 cliffster

Uhhh, I don't get it. The last one has nicer hair?

All of them are behind it.

58 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:25:27pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

I can't prove it, but I have some pretty good evidence.

Of course, nothing I see /read there is evidence at all.

Let's concentrate on conservative Kevin Martin.... is he a racist? He was a panelist.

59 darthstar  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:26:16pm

Joana Cameron...childhood fantasy revisited:

60 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:26:19pm

re: #7 tradewind

This kind of reminds me of the discussions of Obama mingling at a cocktail party at the home of a Weatherman bomber...or sitting on a board with him.///

By the time that had happened Bill Ayers had given up being a radical anti government bomber, had Marcus Epstein given up being a racist at the time of this event?

61 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:27:24pm

re: #58 Buck

Of course, nothing I see /read there is evidence at all.

Let's concentrate on conservative Kevin Martin... is he a racist? He was a panelist.

Hearing (reading) someone hint "he's black, so he can't be racist" is awesome considering what's been said about Obama this year.

62 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:27:37pm

re: #56 Ojoe

All the sodas you never heard of.

Favorite for future use, thank you.

63 ryannon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:28:03pm

re: #56 Ojoe

All the sodas you never heard of.

Forty-two brands of root-beer alone - I could spend weeks, months, years....

64 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:28:21pm

re: #9 Stanley Sea

You do know who Marcus Epstein is, don't you?

Sure, and if it was only him, I would suspect. But there was more. There is ZERO evidence that O'Keefe was involved with organizing it.

He attended. But until there is evidence to the contrary he was not involved with setting it up. Kevin Martin, was one of several panelists. Does that make him a racist?

65 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:28:28pm

Re Landrieu's office caper: O'keefe wasn't the only one looking into it...
[Link: www.cjr.org...]

66 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:28:33pm
67 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:28:41pm

re: #60 jamesfirecat

By the time that had happened Bill Ayers had given up being a radical anti government bomber, had Marcus Epstein given up being a racist at the time of this event?

uhhh, just cause you stop doing something doesn't make you any less of a criminal...

68 keloyd  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:29:22pm

and those people murdered by the Weathermen are still dead.

69 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:29:28pm

re: #28 tradewind

Who is this fertility goddess' namesake anyway, Isis?
Not for nothing, but there may be a fertile imagination at work here.

Yeah that works about as well as pointing out that our current president has a middle name that's the same as the last name of a guy we went to war with....

Though I hear that did keep Gaydolf Titler from getting elected....

70 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:29:31pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

The store is near where I grew up. It is a historical landmark now, I think.

71 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:30:46pm

re: #39 LotharBot

The whole phone tapping a US Senator thing? Oh, that's no big deal, it's just a little treason is all, nothing major...

///

"Its my first offense!"

"I've never heard of a second one!"

Arrested Development, god how I miss that show...

72 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:30:46pm

re: #57 recusancy

All of them are behind it.

You could probably take those first two rows off and be ok. The picture itself sorta seems to be making a different point.

73 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:31:46pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

Nice surfing. Now run your hard drive through an autoclave.

74 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:31:50pm

re: #39 LotharBot
He was not charged with phone tapping, or treason. Please calm yourself.
Even though the Times-Picayune tried really hard to get that story out, they had to recant.

75 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:31:52pm

re: #58 Buck

Of course, nothing I see /read there is evidence at all.

Let's concentrate on conservative Kevin Martin... is he a racist? He was a panelist.

Nobody said Kevin Martin is a racist. The event was in support of racists.

This is the organization that sent Kevin Martin to that event. The link for Kevin Martin on that page is no good, but you should click on the one for Jesse Lee Peterson. Here's Kevin Martin. And here's a description of how the event went for Kevin Martin:

Isis observed that the audience treated Kevin Martin, a black conservative speaker added at the last moment to provide cover for Taylor and Derbyshire, with palpable hostility. “So many of the people in that event were like [racial separatist] Michael Hart; they were the Jared Taylor crowd. And when Kevin Martin was trying to speak you could sense the hostility. Besides, how you are going to have a fair debate with two white supremacists and one black conservative who didn’t even know what he was getting into?”

Isis said she had a long conversation with Martin after the event. “He was not happy at all. He said Epstein told him to dress down and dress casual. And the other two speakers were in suits, looking like two professional white guys and poor Kevin, he was totally set up. Jared Taylor spent the whole time talking about statistics about racial differences and how blacks were less intelligent. He said it in front of Kevin,who was freaked out.”

Do you still need evidence that it was a racist event?

76 webevintage  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:31:57pm
Isis also told me that Weigel told her that Andrew Breitbart, the right-wing blogger who has had O’Keefe on his payroll, “was acting like a f*cking nutcase.”

acting like?

77 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:32:20pm

re: #64 Buck

Sure, and if it was only him, I would suspect. But there was more. There is ZERO evidence that O'Keefe was involved with organizing it.

He attended. But until there is evidence to the contrary he was not involved with setting it up. Kevin Martin, was one of several panelists. Does that make him a racist?

So the conference itself, the supporters (don't most race panels get shoututs from neo-nazis?), the transcripts - none of that makes anything racist... because a black man was there.

78 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:32:42pm

re: #31 Ojoe

Isis sounds like a self given hippie name to me.

Can't judge w/o pictures. We must have pictures.

79 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:33:14pm

re: #71 jamesfirecat

"Its my first offense!"

"I've never heard of a second one!"

Job applications or interviewers often ask "have you ever been convicted of a felony?"

My dad's response to that was a very slightly emphasized "never... convicted."

80 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:33:18pm

re: #61 torrentprime

Hearing (reading) someone hint "he's black, so he can't be racist" is awesome considering what's been said about Obama this year.

He was a panelist... Not just an attendee. Is there any reason, any part of his career or history to think he is a White Nationalist Supporter?

Don't deflect to Obama.... concentrate on what is in front of you.

If this was a White Nationalist Conference, and Kevin Martin was a panelist, then it should be real easy to say he is a racist.

Or maybe, for ISIS all republicans / conservatives are White Nationalist Supporters?

81 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:34:00pm

re: #77 torrentprime

So the conference itself, the supporters (don't most race panels get shoututs from neo-nazis?), the transcripts - none of that makes anything racist... because a black man was there.

Dude, why else do you think they invited him?

82 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:34:38pm

re: #69 jamesfirecat
I'm really not interested in what 'works ' for you there, since you missed the entire point....likely on purpose, so fugeddabouddit.

83 Ojoe  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:34:53pm

re: #78 Decatur Deb

OK Possible Isis.

84 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:35:12pm

re: #77 torrentprime

So the conference itself, the supporters (don't most race panels get shoututs from neo-nazis?), the transcripts - none of that makes anything racist... because a black man was there.

How about anyone could be there, and it would not mean that they were racists?

85 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:35:37pm

re: #81 iceweasel

Dude, why else do you think they invited him?

That's racist.

86 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:35:38pm

re: #67 brookly red

uhhh, just cause you stop doing something doesn't make you any less of a criminal...

Would you feel better if we lived in another universe where Bill Ayers spent the 70's in jail?

87 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:36:19pm

re: #43 recusancy
Oh, let's not judge ACORN.
The US Congress has already done that, and there are some pending indictments out there, as well as some trials. No need for us to get involved.

88 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:36:19pm

re: #80 Buck


Don't deflect... concentrate on what is in front of you.

Please warn me next time. Now I have to clean my tea out of my keyboard from the spit-take.

Which part of the transcripts, the attendees, the neo-nazi support or Martin's reactions after the panel have you dealt with? Yes, yes, A BLACK MAN WAS THERE, but conservatives don't see color, right?

89 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:36:50pm

re: #75 wrenchwench

Do you still need evidence that it was a racist event?

You are quoting Isis to support what Isis is saying?

Nice echo chamber you must live in.

90 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:36:58pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Would you feel better if we lived in another universe where Bill Ayers spent the 70's in jail?

No. I would feel better if he was still there. people died over that BS.

91 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:37:00pm

re: #83 Ojoe

OK Possible Isis.

hippies, eww.

92 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:37:35pm

re: #89 Buck

You are quoting Isis to support what Isis is saying?

Nice echo chamber you must live in.

Go ahead and ignore everything else in that post. Doesn't make you look good.

93 darthstar  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:37:39pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

hippies, eww.

No self-respecting hippie would wear that outfit.

94 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:37:49pm

re: #66 Ojoe

Thanks for the link! Great selection of soda pop.

95 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:38:36pm

re: #88 torrentprime

Please warn me next time. Now I have to clean my tea out of my keyboard from the spit-take.

Which part of the transcripts, the attendees, the neo-nazi support or Martin's reactions after the panel have you dealt with? Yes, yes, A BLACK MAN WAS THERE, but conservatives don't see color, right?

Please separate what Isis is telling you and what facts you can actually support. I really think you have lost track of which is which.

96 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:39:16pm

re: #85 Buck

That's racist.

No, it's not. You're missing my point.
If the bit wrench wench just quoted about how he was asked to dress is correct, as well as how he was received by the audience, I'd say he was invited precisely for racist reasons, one of them being (probably the main one) that it would enable them to employ "Haha, see, it wasn't a racist event because we had a black person on our panel" as a defense.
Which is what you're doing here.

97 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:39:43pm

re: #74 tradewind

He was not charged with phone tapping, or treason. Please calm yourself.

Stop getting your "reason" all over my "funny".

Yeah, I know, he hasn't been charged with either of those things. But it's still damn funny to hear people pretending that messing with the phone system of a sitting Senator is no big deal.

FYI, I'm a Republican who voted for Bush, Bush, and McCain. But seriously... don't f**k with the phone system of a Senator, even if you're not actually going to wiretap it.

98 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:39:46pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat
I'm not sure why he's walking free now. And I'm sure the family of the police officer killed in the bombings his group pulled off aren't either.
" Free as a bird, Guilty as Sin"
.......William Ayers

99 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:39:55pm

re: #58 Buck

Of course, nothing I see /read there is evidence at all.

Let's concentrate on conservative Kevin Martin... is he a racist? He was a panelist.

What counts as "evidence" for you? A complete historical reenactment? How obtuse are you?

100 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:39:55pm

re: #90 brookly red

No. I would feel better if he was still there. people died over that BS.

Well I'd feel better if OJ Simpson was in jail, but the American Legal system isn't perfect.

Should we Ostracize Bill Ayers for the rest of his life just because the people investigating him f***ed up their job so that he could never be charged when its pretty clear that he's turned over a new leaf?

101 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:40:18pm

lol, this is all so freakin' silly.

Who is Isis and why should this person be believed. Evidently, "Isis" was there as well..sooo Isis is a racist, too?
This is all a freakin' lame attempt to smear O'keefe as a racist and it's pathetic.

102 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:40:31pm

re: #95 Buck

Please separate what Isis is telling you and what facts you can actually support. I really think you have lost track of which is which.

So Isis created the Google cache of the transcript site and the neo-nazi support site (again, thanks wrenchwench), using the power of her voice? Damn liberals.

103 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:41:16pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

Well I'd feel better if OJ Simpson was in jail, but the American Legal system isn't perfect.

Should we Ostracize Bill Ayers for the rest of his life just because the people investigating him f***ed up their job so that he could never be charged when its pretty clear that he's turned over a new leaf?

what part of still dead do you not understand?

104 ryannon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:41:47pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

blacks; jews; catholics; masons; italians; irish; dems; repubs; etc.; hippies, eww.

105 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:42:01pm

re: #96 iceweasel

No, it's not. You're missing my point.
If the bit wrench wench just quoted about how he was asked to dress is correct, as well as how he was received by the audience, I'd say he was invited precisely for racist reasons, one of them being (probably the main one) that it would enable them to employ "Haha, see, it wasn't a racist event because we had a black person on our panel" as a defense.
Which is what you're doing here.

Again someone using Isis quotes to support Isis.

No, I am asking you to dismiss everything Isis tells you as suspect. Remove it all. None of it can be backed up.

What are you left with?

106 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:42:29pm

Oh good. Can't take off on our flights of fancy without our CarryOn baggage.

107 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:42:43pm

re: #105 Buck

Again someone using Isis quotes to support Isis.

No, I am asking you to dismiss everything Isis tells you as suspect. Remove it all. None of it can be backed up.

What are you left with?

Besides the transcript and neo-nazi links I've asked you about three times?

108 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:43:10pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

Well I'd feel better if OJ Simpson was in jail, but the American Legal system isn't perfect.

Should we Ostracize Bill Ayers for the rest of his life just because the people investigating him f***ed up their job so that he could never be charged when its pretty clear that he's turned over a new leaf?

Er, why are you coming to Bill Ayers's defense?

109 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:43:13pm

re: #101 CarryOn

lol, this is all so freakin' silly.

Who is Isis and why should this person be believed. Evidently, "Isis" was there as well..sooo Isis is a racist, too?
This is all a freakin' lame attempt to smear O'keefe as a racist and it's pathetic.

Don't you know that at any given Racist even at least 50% of the people there are there to cover the event?

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

This wouldn't be funny if there wasn't some truth behind it.

110 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:43:21pm

re: #105 Buck

Again someone using Isis quotes to support Isis.

No, I am asking you to dismiss everything Isis tells you as suspect. Remove it all. None of it can be backed up.

What are you left with?

A troll named Buck, apparently, who wants us to dismiss every bit of evidence he finds inconvenient, when he even looks at it at all. Yawn.

111 firstinla  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:43:44pm

To clear up part of this issue: just show us the fucking picture already.

112 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:43:54pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat
Damn straight.

113 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:43:57pm

re: #101 CarryOn

And here we see a specimen of the Tea Party Lemming. This goofy creature follows the lead of the chief Teabaggers, even off the cliff of racism and fiscal insanity. While it was once common on LGF, it has become rare since the introduction of the predatory iceweasel onto its range. ;)

114 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:44:10pm

re: #108 cliffster

Er, why are you coming to Bill Ayers's defense?

Why do you imagine that he is?

115 Silvergirl  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:44:13pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

Well I'd feel better if OJ Simpson was in jail, but the American Legal system isn't perfect.

Should we Ostracize Bill Ayers for the rest of his life just because the people investigating him f***ed up their job so that he could never be charged when its pretty clear that he's turned over a new leaf?

He's not? I cannot keep up with the saga of OJ Simpson. When did he get out?

116 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:44:50pm

re: #108 cliffster
Because he's a hero of the radical left, for five hundred, Alex.

117 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:44:53pm

re: #103 brookly red

what part of still dead do you not understand?


I get that, and maybe I'm just not seeing what alternatives really exist to letting Bill Ayers get on with his life was.

What should have happened to him after the FBI realized it had f***ed up its investigation and wouldn't be able to charge him with anything?

118 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:45:02pm

re: #105 Buck

Again someone using Isis quotes to support Isis.

No, I am asking you to dismiss everything Isis tells you as suspect. Remove it all. None of it can be backed up.

What are you left with?

This:

I have some pretty good evidence. Did you look at those? Do you care to respond to what you see?

119 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:45:14pm

This is too funny. There is no doubt that the conference was set up by slimy little racist Epstein. The conference was attended by other slimy little racists who invited a token black man to hide behind if ever called out.

O'Keefe, who worked like Epstein at the Leadership Institue wouldn't even consider helping out at his buddies little conference?


hmmmmmmmm

120 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:45:30pm

re: #102 torrentprime

So Isis created the Google cache of the transcript site and the neo-nazi support site (again, thanks wrenchwench), using the power of her voice? Damn liberals.

There is NOTHING on those sites to say that:
A. O'Keefe was an organizer
B. O'Keefe was at a table handing out racist literature
C. The event was a White Nationalist event.

AND yes, it looks like Isis made that all up, and everyone is just repeating with different voices. Many times here in this thread, proof that Isis is telling the truth is to quote more Isis...

Crazy!

121 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:45:44pm

re: #111 firstinla

To clear up part of this issue: just show us the fucking picture already.

What does the fucking picture matter? O'Keefe said he was there.

122 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:45:47pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

And here we see a specimen of the Tea Party Lemming. This goofy creature follows the lead of the chief Teabaggers, even off the cliff of racism and fiscal insanity. While it was once common on LGF, it has become rare since the introduction of the predatory iceweasel onto its range. ;)

Heh. This particular one needs to fear the wench with a wrench, who dealt it quite a few savage blows the other day.

123 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:45:55pm

re: #114 iceweasel

Why do you imagine that he is?

Honestly, I can't see any sensible reason to do so. I could see citing "immaterial", but not defending him.

124 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:46:59pm

re: #114 iceweasel

Why do you imagine that he is?

well,

Should we Ostracize Bill Ayers for the rest of his life just because the people investigating him f***ed up their job so that he could never be charged when its pretty clear that he's turned over a new leaf?

did it for me...

125 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:47:10pm

re: #120 Buck

There is NOTHING on those sites to say that:
A. O'Keefe was an organizer
B. O'Keefe was at a table handing out racist literature
C. The event was a White Nationalist event.

AND yes, it looks like Isis made that all up, and everyone is just repeating with different voices. Many times here in this thread, proof that Isis is telling the truth is to quote more Isis...

Crazy!

A. You are correct. He only helped a little.

B. You are correct.

C. You are a blind fool, or worse.

126 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:47:56pm

re: #124 brookly red

Ah, hehe, misinterpreted the question. Yes - because he was, that's why.

127 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:48:07pm

re: #116 tradewind

Because he's a hero of the radical left, for five hundred, Alex.

Fail.
Widely hated by the left for what he did, as well as for discrediting the legitimate antiwar movement.

Here's Katha Pollit in the Nation on that.
Bill Ayers Whitewashes History, Again.

128 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:48:10pm

re: #93 darthstar

No self-respecting hippie would wear that outfit.

"Pow-Wow" hippie. They dress like that for the tourists

129 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:49:05pm

re: #110 iceweasel

A troll named Buck, apparently, who wants us to dismiss every bit of evidence he finds inconvenient, when he even looks at it at all. Yawn.

You don't know what a troll is. I have been here, contributing longer than you.

Dismiss any evidence you can't back up. Maybe I missed the actual transcript...Things are going pretty fast here. Are you referring to the VDARE thing?

130 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:49:32pm

re: #108 cliffster

Er, why are you coming to Bill Ayers's defense?


I'm not coming to the defense of what he did, I'm coming to the defense of him being able to get on with his life after he did those things and evidently turned over a new leaf.

The American justice system did what they could to him, which in this case is nothing. It's not exactly "fair' but what is the alternative?

131 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:49:37pm

re: #117 jamesfirecat

I get that, and maybe I'm just not seeing what alternatives really exist to letting Bill Ayers get on with his life was.

What should have happened to him after the FBI realized it had f***ed up its investigation and wouldn't be able to charge him with anything?

Apparently, we need to believe that the US justice system should be suspended so that Ayers can be imprisoned. Otherwise we're 'defending' him.
Wait, that sounds familiar...

132 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:49:49pm

re: #120 Buck

There is NOTHING on those sites to say that:
A. O'Keefe was an organizer
B. O'Keefe was at a table handing out racist literature
C. The event was a White Nationalist event.

AND yes, it looks like Isis made that all up, and everyone is just repeating with different voices. Many times here in this thread, proof that Isis is telling the truth is to quote more Isis...

Crazy!

Isis made up those sites? Is that where the conservative train is taking us today? She made up stormfront? American Renaissance wrote a summary, with quotes, based on Isis' "lies"?

This reminds me; I need to re-read "Through The Looking Glass, and What Teabaggers Found There"

133 darthstar  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:50:04pm

re: #111 firstinla

To clear up part of this issue: just show us the fucking picture already.

Nah...far better to speculate and get as much attention as possible until the court of public opinion is settled on the matter.

134 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:50:36pm

re: #132 torrentprime

Isis made up those sites? Is that where the conservative train is taking us today? She made up stormfront? American Renaissance wrote a summary, with quotes, based on Isis' "lies"?

This reminds me; I need to re-read "Through The Looking Glass, and What Teabaggers Found There"

Made up the three things I listed.

135 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:51:23pm

re: #127 iceweasel

Fail.
Widely hated by the left for what he did, as well as for discrediting the legitimate antiwar movement.

Here's Katha Pollit in the Nation on that.
Bill Ayers Whitewashes History, Again.

Very true, and I might say, "It's like Scott Roeder; he is no hero to conservatives for killing Tiller," but I'm no longer so sure about that.

136 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:51:46pm

re: #117 jamesfirecat

I get that, and maybe I'm just not seeing what alternatives really exist to letting Bill Ayers get on with his life was.

What should have happened to him after the FBI realized it had f***ed up its investigation and wouldn't be able to charge him with anything?

Really, not all that different from O'Keefe and wiretapping. What he did was incredibly stupid, but there's no direct, admissible evidence of wiretapping/treason (or, in Ayers' case, insufficient non-botched evidence of murder/conspiracy). They can get him on trespassing, but not much else. *shrug*

Doesn't mean I have to like the guy. It just means he's going to get to get on with his life outside of jail, at least until he gets caught doing something else criminal. Ayers managed to get on OK. We'll see about O'Keefe.

137 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:52:26pm

re: #117 jamesfirecat

I get that, and maybe I'm just not seeing what alternatives really exist to letting Bill Ayers get on with his life was.

What should have happened to him after the FBI realized it had f***ed up its investigation and wouldn't be able to charge him with anything?

there really are not any alternatives, but I personally would not entertain in his living room.

138 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:52:32pm

re: #127 iceweasel
How does ' tenured professor at University of Illinois married to Tenured Law professor at Northwestern ' translate into ' widely hated by the Left?
Oh.... that's right. Last paragraph of Wiki. But read the one preceding.//

139 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:52:43pm

re: #135 torrentprime

Very true, and I might say, "It's like Scott Roeder; he is no hero to conservatives for killing Tiller," but I'm no longer so sure about that.

Just say instead "He's no hero to any sane people."

140 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:53:30pm

Everyone.... Please raise your hand if that VDARE American Renaissance link is what you are calling a transcript....

Jeeze? Really?

141 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:53:49pm

re: #138 tradewind

How does ' tenured professor at University of Illinois married to Tenured Law professor at Northwestern ' translate into ' widely hated by the Left?
Oh... that's right. Last paragraph of Wiki. But read the one preceding.//

Wait a minute, a wormhole just opened and I think we're back in June 2008....

142 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:54:24pm

re: #130 jamesfirecat

I'm not coming to the defense of what he did, I'm coming to the defense of him being able to get on with his life after he did those things and evidently turned over a new leaf.

The American justice system did what they could to him, which in this case is nothing. It's not exactly "fair' but what is the alternative?

the subplot started with your shrugging off the Obama/Ayers thing. In that sense, yes I think that albatross should be something he carries with him for the rest of his life.

143 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:54:32pm

re: #137 brookly red

there really are not any alternatives, but I personally would not entertain in his living room.

That's you're opinion and its a very justified one, I just think there's a difference between hanging around with someone who you never even met till after their law breaking days are passed, and someone who at the time you are working with them still a racist.

One of them involves insulting someone for something that they've done, and the other is for something that they're doing....

144 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:54:46pm
145 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:54:48pm

re: #116 tradewind

Because he's a hero of the radical left, for five hundred, Alex.

I've put in some time with the radical left and nobody that I knew ever really gave a shit about him.

146 Stanghazi  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:55:01pm

Amazing that a conference with the American Renaissance (hate group) and Jared Taylor, attended by O'Keefe and organized by Epstein is in the typical round about way being defended.

147 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:55:20pm

re: #142 cliffster

the subplot started with your shrugging off the Obama/Ayers thing. In that sense, yes I think that albatross should be something he carries with him for the rest of his life.

The subplot started when people brought Ayers up.

148 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:56:12pm

re: #138 tradewind

How does ' tenured professor at University of Illinois married to Tenured Law professor at Northwestern ' translate into ' widely hated by the Left?
Oh... that's right. Last paragraph of Wiki. But read the one preceding.//

So you're saying that someone vested the University of Illinois the ability to speak for the entire "left" of America? And to do so by deciding who is and who is not a good college professor?

149 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:56:20pm

re: #147 iceweasel

The subplot started when people brought Ayers up.

And? Your point?

150 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:56:30pm

re: #140 Buck

Everyone... Please raise your hand if that VDARE American Renaissance link is what you are calling a transcript...

Jeeze? Really?

So there are parts missing which you think, counter to the parts we can see that don't, do prove a non-racist content and tone of the event? The missing sentences praise our melting pot; they just went all bell curve for a few minutes and those annoying liberals focused on that part?

151 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:56:37pm

re: #137 brookly red
Well, you might if your Dad's former communist buddy and your mentor was a close friend of your now WH advisor's Mom and Dad (Valerie Jarrett), whose Mom was a good friend of Ayers' Dad.
Confused?//
:)

152 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:56:37pm

re: #147 iceweasel

The subplot started when people brought Ayers up.

Avery is the designated comment-stopper. Showing some wear, though.

153 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:56:39pm

re: #143 jamesfirecat

That's you're opinion and its a very justified one, I just think there's a difference between hanging around with someone who you never even met till after their law breaking days are passed, and someone who at the time you are working with them still a racist.

One of them involves insulting someone for something that they've done, and the other is for something that they're doing...

I'm a bit confused. Do you equate crime with racism?

154 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:56:59pm

re: #140 Buck

There are MP3's posted at VDARE, but that site's so nauseating that I'm not going to bother to rub your apologist nose in it.

155 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:57:11pm

re: #146 Stanley Sea

Amazing that a conference with the American Renaissance (hate group) and Jared Taylor, attended by O'Keefe and organized by Epstein is in the typical round about way being defended.

Not amazing at all! Predicted!

Now the ball is in the court of Breitbart and his apologists (Patterico, we’re looking at you). Having seen this sort of thing play out before, we’ve put together a handy-dandy flow chart for how the ‘James O’Keefe: Total Fucking Racist’ scandal is likely to play out in the wingnutosphere over the coming days:

INITIAL STAGE

PHASE ONE: Ignore, Ignore, Ignore ->

BUYING TIME STAGE

PHASE TWO: Demand Nobody Speak Until ‘All The Facts Are In’ ->
PHASE THREE: Sputterings About ‘Hatchet Job’/'Character Assassination’/'Partisan Agenda’ ->
PHASE FOUR: Float ‘Youthful Indiscretions’ and/or ‘Obama-Rev. Wright=Lefty Hypocrisy’ Angles ->

COUNTER-ATTACK STAGE

PHASE FIVE: Kerners Are Go! Mission: Discredit Blumenthal, OPP ->
PHASE SIX: ‘Real Scandal’ Is Minor Clerical Error In MSNBC’s Follow-up On Blumenthal/OPP Reporting ->
PHASE SEVEN: Declare Victory ->

LONG-TERM STRATEGY STAGE

PHASE EIGHT: Diligently Scrub Wikipedia Of References To Scandal ->
PHASE NINE: Prefer Simple Reboot Of PHASE ONE In Face Of Future Challenges To PHASE SEVEN Dogma, But If Absolutely Necessary Cite PHASE SIX Findings With Patronizing Sneer

I knew Ayers needed to added to Phase Four. Just knew it.

156 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:57:24pm

Before Obama was elected, when I considered what things could be like under his presidency, I thought that there might be some racist backlash. I had no idea what form it might take. Now that I see it, I am not surprised, but I am still horrified.

157 American-African  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:57:31pm

re: #51 recusancy

[Link: t4w.blogs.com...]

I dunno... I kinda like that one.

158 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:57:41pm

re: #152 Decatur Deb
Who is Avery?

159 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:57:42pm

re: #151 tradewind

Yes.

160 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:58:00pm

re: #145 Conservative Moonbat


You mean you were at the meetings where we discussed where to hide the birth certificates?

Honestly, I never knew who the guy was until the Radical Right found him.

I'd imagine if you asked any Democrat born after 1970 who he was, you'd get a blank stare.

161 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:58:12pm

re: #120 Buck

There is NOTHING on those sites to say that:
A. O'Keefe was an organizer
B. O'Keefe was at a table handing out racist literature
C. The event was a White Nationalist event.

This was NOT some kind of harmless debate like you might see on Phil Donahue. The event was highly controversial and was nearly canceled, until black conservative Kevin Martin was invited as cover. Other "establishment conservatives" had agreed to attend but backed out when they discovered Jared Taylor was the featured speaker.

And there's a very good reason for that controversy, because Taylor's views are repugnant.

All of this is straight from the horse's mouth at American Renaissance, Taylor's site.

American Renaissance News: Race And Conservatism Debated At The Robert A. Taft Club (No Thanks To The Leadership Institute)

162 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:58:26pm

re: #142 cliffster

the subplot started with your shrugging off the Obama/Ayers thing. In that sense, yes I think that albatross should be something he carries with him for the rest of his life.

On the other hand, the incessant digging up of connections is making me a bit queasy. All the this-guy-knows-this-other-guy-who-went-to-a-conference-with-THAT-guy stuff does nothing to promote good discourse. So in that sense, I'd say fuck it to the Obama/Ayers thing.

163 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:58:36pm

re: #158 tradewind

Who is Avery?

Ayers and ONE glass of wine.

164 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:59:20pm

re: #143 jamesfirecat

That's you're opinion and its a very justified one, I just think there's a difference between hanging around with someone who you never even met till after their law breaking days are passed, and someone who at the time you are working with them still a racist.

One of them involves insulting someone for something that they've done, and the other is for something that they're doing...

OK a racist is bad I don't deny, but murder is still murder and there is a reason it carries a life/death sentence... It can not be forgiven. To compare a racist with a killer just is BS.

165 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:59:22pm

Don't look now Charles, but there's an alpaca breathing down your neck.

166 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:59:25pm

re: #153 MandyManners

I'm a bit confused. Do you equate crime with racism?

Interesting (strawman?). Since I believe the point was raised was, "who would you hang around with," I would be equally wary at hanging out with a Klansmen as with a rapist. YMMV.

167 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 2:59:31pm

re: #163 Decatur Deb

Ayers and ONE glass of wine.

I'd like to see Ayers and three

168 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:00:41pm

re: #165 wrenchwench

Don't look now Charles, but there's an alpaca breathing down your neck.

There will be no retractions from me.

169 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:00:52pm

re: #138 tradewind

How does ' tenured professor at University of Illinois married to Tenured Law professor at Northwestern ' translate into ' widely hated by the Left?
Oh... that's right. Last paragraph of Wiki. But read the one preceding.//

He can be respected in his professional community and still hated in the leftist political community.

I understand he's made some ground as more moderate in local chicago politics but when I was hanging out with Trotskyists the people who had heard of him didn't care for him at all. Remember, radicals tend to be young college aged kids and Ayers is an old dude. He was pretty much off our radar.

170 Stanghazi  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:00:54pm

re: #167 cliffster

I'd like to see Ayers and three

It would be "Ayers?? What the fuck does he have to do with this???!!11!"

171 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:00:57pm

re: #159 Decatur Deb
Valerie Jarrett's mother was a close friend of William Ayers' father, to make a long story short. In between and friendly with both was the communist-party member (later morphed to Democrat) who Obama's father asked to mentor him in Chicago.
Nontroversy.

172 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:01:05pm

re: #167 cliffster

I'd like to see Ayers and three

It's pronounced "Chumley".

173 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:01:41pm

re: #153 MandyManners

I'm a bit confused. Do you equate crime with racism?

That was not my intention.

My intention was to say that Bill Ayers has tried to make amends for the things he did in the past and seems to have turned over a new leaf by the time Obama met him. Marcus Epstein was in the process of being a racist when O'Keef was supposedly hanging around with him.

Hanging around with neither of these people is a criminal offense, but I feel the second case should do more to damage someone's reputation than the first.

174 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:02:01pm

re: #169 Conservative Moonbat
His professional community IS the leftist political community.//
Or at least one of its main pillars.

175 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:02:24pm

re: #170 Stanley Sea

It would be "Ayers?? What the fuck does he have to do with this???!!11!"

nothing really... but yet here we are.

176 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:02:49pm

re: #150 torrentprime

So there are parts missing which you think, counter to the parts we can see that don't, do prove a non-racist content and tone of the event? The missing sentences praise our melting pot; they just went all bell curve for a few minutes and those annoying liberals focused on that part?

It is NOT a transcript. It might be the POV of what went on from someone I don't know anything about.

Look, after 9/11 when this site concentrated on jihad and zionist issues, many called Charles a racist. And he even got some (unwelcome) shout outs from White Nationalist sites, who THOUGHT they had something in common. Doesn't mean any of that was true...

177 webevintage  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:03:01pm

I'm so fucking confused.
What does Ayers have to do with that creep O'Keefe twisting in the wind of his own making?
While quite entertaining it has not helped me in the least figure out what the Tea Party folks need to make them happy.
(I just say that because I've recently realized that while I think they might be nuts I don't really know for sure.)

178 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:03:25pm

re: #168 Charles

There will be no retractions from me.

You have nothing to retract. You were reporting what someone else said.

179 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:03:39pm

re: #166 torrentprime

Interesting (strawman?). Since I believe the point was raised was, "who would you hang around with," I would be equally wary at hanging out with a Klansmen as with a rapist. YMMV.

I would find both morally repugnant but I wouldn't think a Klansman would hold a .380 to my head and rape me.

180 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:04:02pm

re: #177 webevintage

I'm so fucking confused.
What does Ayers have to do with that creep O'Keefe twisting in the wind of his own making?
While quite entertaining it has not helped me in the least figure out what the Tea Party folks need to make them happy.
(I just say that because I've recently realized that while I think they might be nuts I don't really know for sure.)

Ayers is being brought up to change the subject, preferably to something about how eeevil the left it.

181 ryannon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:04:20pm

re: #179 MandyManners

I would find both morally repugnant but I wouldn't think a Klansman would hold a .380 to my head and rape me.

In bed?

182 webevintage  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:04:40pm

re: #171 tradewind

Valerie Jarrett's mother was a close friend of William Ayers' father, to make a long story short. In between and friendly with both was the communist-party member (later morphed to Democrat) who Obama's father asked to mentor him in Chicago.

ZOMG!!!!!1111111!!!!!!

183 Jack Burton  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:04:50pm

re: #176 Buck

It is NOT a transcript. It might be the POV of what went on from someone I don't know anything about.

Look, after 9/11 when this site concentrated on jihad and zionist issues, many called Charles a racist. And he even got some (unwelcome) shout outs from White Nationalist sites, who THOUGHT they had something in common. Doesn't mean any of that was true...

I don't know how common that was. IIRC they always hated him and swore up and down he was on the payroll of AIPAC.

184 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:05:12pm

re: #176 Buck

It is NOT a transcript. It might be the POV of what went on from someone I don't know anything about.

Look, after 9/11 when this site concentrated on jihad and zionist issues, many called Charles a racist. And he even got some (unwelcome) shout outs from White Nationalist sites, who THOUGHT they had something in common. Doesn't mean any of that was true...

So the indeterminacy of the universe stops us from ever making any conclusions, huh? (eyeroll)

185 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:05:48pm

re: #173 jamesfirecat

That was not my intention.

My intention was to say that Bill Ayers has tried to make amends for the things he did in the past and seems to have turned over a new leaf by the time Obama met him. Marcus Epstein was in the process of being a racist when O'Keef was supposedly hanging around with him.

Hanging around with neither of these people is a criminal offense, but I feel the second case should do more to damage someone's reputation than the first.

On 9-11-01, the New York Times carried a photograph of Ayers standing on the American flag. I think that's in the same ball-park as someone who tries to pervert the American ideal through racism.

186 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:06:15pm

re: #176 Buck
Never is the old saying ' The enemy of my enemy is my friend ' more borne out than in print on a blog.
Whether or not there is a grain of truth in the original alliance , it still persists as a phenomenon, however imaginary.

187 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:06:42pm

re: #185 MandyManners

On 9-11-01, the New York Times carried a photograph of Ayers standing on the American flag. I think that's in the same ball-park as someone who tries to pervert the American ideal through racism.

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to think policy > symbols every time.

188 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:06:47pm

re: #180 iceweasel

Ayers is being brought up to change the subject, preferably to something about how eeevil the left it.

Quite true it is to change the subject... btw which do think is worse? brochures or bombs? just curious.

189 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:07:31pm

re: #182 webevintage
eleventy?//

190 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:07:46pm

re: #188 brookly red

Quite true it is to change the subject... btw which do think is worse? brochures or bombs? just curious.

Well, the pen is mightier than the sword...

191 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:07:56pm

re: #174 tradewind

His professional community IS the leftist political community.//
Or at least one of its main pillars.

Ummmm. No. He's a professor of education I believe.

192 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:08:22pm

re: #176 Buck

None of that stuck however because Charles is not a racist. People who participate in the Robert Taft club notably are racists, from Sam Francis, to Steve Sailer, to Richard Spencer, to Pat Buchanan, to Bill White and Marcus Epstein, both of whom have served jail time .
This cache link to Robert Spencer backing the fuck off from Robert Taft club when Weigel confused him with Richard Spencer should tell you how toxically racist they are:

[Link: 74.125.155.132...]

193 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:08:24pm

re: #161 Charles

This was NOT some kind of harmless debate like you might see on Phil Donahue. The event was highly controversial and was nearly canceled, until black conservative Kevin Martin was invited as cover. Other "establishment conservatives" had agreed to attend but backed out when discovered Jared Taylor was the featured speaker.

And there's a very good reason for that controversy, because Taylor's views are repugnant.

All of this is straight from the horse's mouth at American Renaissance, Taylor's site.

American Renaissance News: Race And Conservatism Debated At The Robert A. Taft Club (No Thanks To The Leadership Institute)

So Taylor, a person we think is repugnant, gets to set up what happened? I am sure some crap did happen, but that doesn't mean it was a White Nationalist Conference, or that everyone there was a racist.
Maybe some came to support Kevin? Wouldn't that be a good thing?

194 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:09:04pm

re: #190 cliffster

Well, the pen is mightier than the sword...

ain't no match for a bomb though...

195 allegro  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:09:16pm

re: #191 Conservative Moonbat

Ummm. No. He's a professor of education I believe.

I took that as being his point. The librul universities, those bastions of lefty mind control.

196 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:09:37pm

re: #194 brookly red

ain't no match for a bomb though...

You're right, a bomb would kick a pen's ass.

197 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:09:41pm

re: #185 MandyManners

On 9-11-01, the New York Times carried a photograph of Ayers standing on the American flag. I think that's in the same ball-park as someone who tries to pervert the American ideal through racism.

It's in the same ballpark as someone who flies a "2nd Revolution flag.

Image: Revolution%2520II%2520Flag.png

198 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:09:58pm

re: #185 MandyManners

On 9-11-01, the New York Times carried a photograph of Ayers.

Don't let the fact that the paper had been put to bed and was out on the streets for hours before the WTC attack stop you there.

199 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:10:03pm

re: #193 Buck

So Taylor, a person we think is repugnant, gets to set up what happened? I am sure some crap did happen, but that doesn't mean it was a White Nationalist Conference, or that everyone there was a racist.
Maybe some came to support Kevin? Wouldn't that be a good thing?

It was promoted at Stormfront. Kevin's friends probably missed that posting.

200 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:10:44pm

re: #193 Buck

So Taylor, a person we think is repugnant, gets to set up what happened? I am sure some crap did happen, but that doesn't mean it was a White Nationalist Conference, or that everyone there was a racist.
Maybe some came to support Kevin? Wouldn't that be a good thing?

Now you're just getting silly.

201 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:10:46pm

By the way, the actual organizer for the event was the Robert A. Taft Club, a well-known umbrella group for a number of far right causes, including Jared Taylor and his "academic" racism scam. Their history is very long and very dicey.

Given the fact that the Taft Club was the organizer, and Marcus Epstein was apparently in charge of booking speakers, I honestly don't see why it's a stretch to call this a "white nationalist conference." Certainly some of the people who organized it were involved with white nationalist groups.

202 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:10:47pm

re: #184 torrentprime

So the indeterminacy of the universe stops us from ever making any conclusions, huh? (eyeroll)

It should stop us from accusing/calling someone a racist.

203 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:10:55pm

re: #187 torrentprime

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to think policy > symbols every time.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

204 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:11:23pm

re: #164 brookly red

OK a racist is bad I don't deny, but murder is still murder and there is a reason it carries a life/death sentence... It can not be forgiven. To compare a racist with a killer just is BS.

I feel unable to maintain the level of hatred towards acts of Constructive Manslaughter that happened so long ago, most likely because no one I know was harmed by them thus making me biased in favor of looking the other way and the person seems to have turned over a new leaf.

Clear and present day racism on the other hand to me strikes more deeply because (to me) it is a sign that either someone's brain isn't working right, or they were raised with deplorable values about how it is okay to blame and persecute people for things which are clearly beyond their control.

Thus I bow my head and admit that you are actually right about this one and I'm probably just operating with "liberal blinders" on and unable to properly view things in regard to the big picture.

205 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:11:40pm

Why are black conservatives always suspect? While not actually calling them Uncle Toms, or worse, their presence at conservative events or their voting for conservative candidates is almost never accepted as their right to free expression. They're always being accused of being beards for closeted racists/.

206 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:11:45pm

re: #193 Buck

So Taylor, a person we think is repugnant, gets to set up what happened? I am sure some crap did happen, but that doesn't mean it was a White Nationalist Conference, or that everyone there was a racist.
Maybe some came to support Kevin? Wouldn't that be a good thing?

I feel like I'm watching a manifestation of the green lantern theory, applied to avoiding conclusions.

207 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:12:00pm

re: #201 Charles

By the way, the actual organizer for the event was the Robert A. Taft Club, a well-known umbrella group for a number of far right causes, including Jared Taylor and his "academic" racism scam. Their history is very long and very dicey.

Given the fact that the Taft Club was the organizer, and Marcus Epstein was apparently in charge of booking speakers, I honestly don't see why it's a stretch to call this a "white nationalist conference." Certainly some of the people who organized it were involved with white nationalist groups.

OK, and you would say that everyone who attended is a supporter of White Nationalism? Cause that is what is being said about O'Keefe.

208 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:12:39pm

re: #197 Decatur Deb

It's in the same ballpark as someone who flies a "2nd Revolution flag.

[Link: lh6.ggpht.com...]

Is that O'Keefe? Looks a lot like him.

209 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:12:47pm

re: #202 Buck

It should stop us from accusing/calling someone a racist.

Great! Let Rush know that and see how it goes. We'll wait.

210 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:12:59pm

re: #201 Charles

By the way, the actual organizer for the event was the Robert A. Taft Club, a well-known umbrella group for a number of far right causes, including Jared Taylor and his "academic" racism scam. Their history is very long and very dicey.

Given the fact that the Taft Club was the organizer, and Marcus Epstein was apparently in charge of booking speakers, I honestly don't see why it's a stretch to call this a "white nationalist conference." Certainly some of the people who organized it were involved with white nationalist groups.

They hosted Vlaams Belang, they are beloved by Kyle Bristow (another YAFer who is also defending O'Keefe on his facebook page) and many other racists and "tea cup racialists" as the imprisoned Bill White labels them.

211 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:13:03pm

It's also very clear from reading the American Renaissance article that they were deeply involved in the organization of this event.

212 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:13:17pm

re: #204 jamesfirecat

Constructive Manslaughter

As opposed to DEstructive manslaughter!?!

WTF !!

213 Decider  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:13:19pm

Looks like the Fox News hero is being seen for what he really is. The whole Fox News/Tea Party movement is simply a neo-KKK.

214 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:13:43pm

re: #207 Buck

Yes

215 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:13:48pm

re: #208 wrenchwench

Is that O'Keefe? Looks a lot like him.

Random grab.

216 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:14:40pm

re: #211 Charles

It's also very clear from reading the American Renaissance article that they were deeply involved in the organization of this event.

That's cross posted at VDARE as well.

217 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:14:47pm

re: #205 tradewind

their presence at conservative events or their voting for conservative candidates is almost never accepted as their right to free expression. They're always being accused of being beards for closeted racists/.

That makes it sound as if you think those two are mutually exclusive.

218 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:15:03pm

re: #204 jamesfirecat

I feel unable to maintain the level of hatred towards acts of Constructive Manslaughter that happened so long ago, most likely because no one I know was harmed by them thus making me biased in favor of looking the other way and the person seems to have turned over a new leaf.

Clear and present day racism on the other hand to me strikes more deeply because (to me) it is a sign that either someone's brain isn't working right, or they were raised with deplorable values about how it is okay to blame and persecute people for things which are clearly beyond their control.

Thus I bow my head and admit that you are actually right about this one and I'm probably just operating with "liberal blinders" on and unable to properly view things in regard to the big picture.


Constructive Manslaughter? Constructive Manslaughter??!! yeah someone's brain is not working right... are you for f'n real?

219 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:16:00pm

re: #213 Decider

Looks like the Fox News hero is being seen for what he really is. The whole Fox News/Tea Party movement is simply a neo-KKK.

Oh now that is really is my limit.

220 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:16:18pm

re: #155 iceweasel

I knew Ayers needed to added to Phase Four. Just knew it.

Phase 4:

221 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:16:39pm

re: #213 Decider
And they've managed to dupe all those ignorant viewers, to the point of being named ' most trusted news site'.
Damn, I'm moving to France. We're doomed.//

222 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:16:49pm

re: #218 brookly red

gmta,,, (212)

223 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:17:02pm

re: #203 MandyManners

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Was showing me the picture supposed to change something? Policy still does more harm/help than symbols. Did you disagree with that, or was the picture supposed to end the discussion?

224 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:17:05pm

re: #191 Conservative Moonbat

You just showed why he is a pillar of far left philosophy. He has academic credentials to go with his whack job ideas.

225 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:17:12pm

re: #212 sattv4u2

Constructive Manslaughter

As opposed to DEstructive manslaughter!?!

WTF !!

What?

"Constructive Manslaughter" is what you call it when someone ends up killing someone in the process of committing another crime without ever having the intent to kill anyone.


Would you get on my case if I said that "In the middle ages if someone had managed to blow a gap the Great Wall would be a considerable chink in China's armor"?

226 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:17:32pm

re: #181 ryannon

That ain't funny!

227 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:17:34pm

re: #218 brookly red
He really did say 'Constructive Manslaughter'?
I was afraid to go look.
That tears it.

228 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:18:07pm

re: #213 Decider

Go Away Gordon.

229 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:18:25pm

re: #225 jamesfirecat

That did need explaining.

230 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:18:35pm

re: #218 brookly red

Constructive Manslaughter? Constructive Manslaughter??!! yeah someone's brain is not working right... are you for f'n real?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Constructive Manslaughter

Constructive manslaughter is also referred to as ‘unlawful act’ manslaughter. It is based on the doctrine of constructive malice, whereby the malicious intent inherent in the commission of a crime is considered to apply to the consequences of that crime. It occurs when someone kills, without intent, in the course of committing an unlawful act. The malice involved in the crime is transferred to the killing, resulting in a charge of manslaughter.

For example, if a person throws a brick off a bridge into vehicular traffic below they could be found to intend or be reckless as to assault or criminal damage (see DPP v Newbury[11]). There is no intent to kill, and a resulting death would not be considered murder, but would be considered involuntary manslaughter. The accused's responsibility for causing death is constructed from the fault in committing what might have been a minor criminal act.

To my understanding Bill Ayers never set out to kill anyone and thus "Constructive Manslaughter" would be the correct term for it, or am I wrong?

231 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:18:38pm

Notice that American Renaissance can barely hide their contempt for Kevin Martin:

Kevin Martin was the next to speak. He opened by lamenting how difficult it is to be a Republican in the black community. He blamed most of the problems that blacks face on the fact that “self-appointed leaders” like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have conditioned blacks to believe in a culture of victimization that prevents them from ever taking responsibility for their own problems.

Nevertheless, Martin seemed to blame the media for most of the negative stereotypes about blacks. His speech was also full of the usual banalities, such as “we’re all members of one race: the human race,” etc. Nevertheless, Martin should be praised for rejecting the culture of victimhood that he described.

Their differences with Martin stem from the fact that they consider him to be genetically inferior to a white man. That's why they sneer at his comment that the media are to blame for negative stereotypes -- because to them, it's Martin HIMSELF who is to blame, because that's how black people are.

It's a profoundly sick world view. This is why decent people shun the Jared Taylor crowd.

232 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:19:37pm

re: #204 jamesfirecat

WTF?

Constructive Manslaughter?

It's terrorism, plain and simple.

233 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:19:45pm

re: #230 jamesfirecat

would be the correct term for it, or am I wrong?

Not sure if you're "wrong" or not,,but whomever coined that phrase sure was!

234 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:20:26pm

re: #231 Charles

Notice that American Renaissance can barely hide their contempt for Kevin Martin:

Their differences with Martin stem from the fact that they consider him to be genetically inferior to a white man. That's why they sneer at his comment that the media are to blame for negative stereotypes -- because to them, it's Martin HIMSELF who is to blame, because that's how black people are.

It's a profoundly sick world view. This is why decent people shun the Jared Taylor crowd.

Quite Concur.

235 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:20:46pm

re: #222 sattv4u2

gmta,,, (212)

Constructive Manslaughter???... OMG , OMG I am speechless... I don't even want to make political hay... that is just depraved.

236 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:20:58pm

re: #225 jamesfirecat

What?

"Constructive Manslaughter" is what you call it when someone ends up killing someone in the process of committing another crime without ever having the intent to kill anyone.


Would you get on my case if I said that "In the middle ages if someone had managed to blow a gap the Great Wall would be a considerable chink in China's armor"?

Are you sure you don't mean "felony murder"?

237 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:21:14pm

re: #225 jamesfirecat
More like a) criminally negligent homicide, or, probably as you meant it, b) ' collateral damage'.
I'd go with a, because their actions had clearly foreseeable consequences.
At least, for those who weren't too stoned.

238 webevintage  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:21:21pm

re: #198 iceweasel

Don't let the fact that the paper had been put to bed and was out on the streets for hours before the WTC attack stop you there.

Or that the interview was a reprint of on in Chicago Magazine in August or that he was not actually standing on the flag....not that is that less offensive, but it is always nice to have the facts right.
Ayers was a dick, and sucks as much as those idiots who seem to want a revolution now, BUT he had already been in custody for a year when the policemen were killed. It sucks that the authorities did not do their job right and he did not spend time in prison for blowing shit up and trying to start his own revolution.

I do now see how Ayers is the strawman in this conversation....I've forgotten all about that dick O'Keefe.

239 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:21:44pm

re: #235 brookly red

Constructive Manslaughter???... OMG , OMG I am speechless... I don't even want to make political hay... that is just depraved.

And the capper? James downdinged my 212!!!

LOL

240 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:21:55pm

re: #238 webevintage

bingo.

241 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:22:17pm

re: #232 Thanos

WTF?

Constructive Manslaughter?

It's terrorism, plain and simple.

Last time I checked "terrorism" is not a crime you charge people with in court. I was just trying to be as meticulously correct in my terminology as possible as I've ended up getting lambasted here before for allowing my words to say something other than what I intend them to.

242 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:22:21pm

re: #230 jamesfirecat

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Constructive Manslaughter

Constructive manslaughter is also referred to as ‘unlawful act’ manslaughter. It is based on the doctrine of constructive malice, whereby the malicious intent inherent in the commission of a crime is considered to apply to the consequences of that crime. It occurs when someone kills, without intent, in the course of committing an unlawful act. The malice involved in the crime is transferred to the killing, resulting in a charge of manslaughter.

For example, if a person throws a brick off a bridge into vehicular traffic below they could be found to intend or be reckless as to assault or criminal damage (see DPP v Newbury[11]). There is no intent to kill, and a resulting death would not be considered murder, but would be considered involuntary manslaughter. The accused's responsibility for causing death is constructed from the fault in committing what might have been a minor criminal act.

To my understanding Bill Ayers never set out to kill anyone and thus "Constructive Manslaughter" would be the correct term for it, or am I wrong?

keepthefuckaway from me, K?

243 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:22:30pm

re: #231 Charles

Notice that American Renaissance can barely hide their contempt for Kevin Martin:

Their differences with Martin stem from the fact that they consider him to be genetically inferior to a white man. That's why they sneer at his comment that the media are to blame for negative stereotypes -- because to them, it's Martin HIMSELF who is to blame, because that's how black people are.

It's a profoundly sick world view. This is why decent people shun the Jared Taylor crowd.

OK, BUT O'Keefe is NOT American Renaissance. At least not with anything I have seen. It just does not seem right for people to A=B=C this guy.

244 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:22:55pm

I'm trying to figure out what any of this has to do with ACORN taking federal money, then endorsing and promoting democratic candidates?

245 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:22:59pm

re: #230 jamesfirecat

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Constructive Manslaughter

Constructive manslaughter is also referred to as ‘unlawful act’ manslaughter. It is based on the doctrine of constructive malice, whereby the malicious intent inherent in the commission of a crime is considered to apply to the consequences of that crime. It occurs when someone kills, without intent, in the course of committing an unlawful act. The malice involved in the crime is transferred to the killing, resulting in a charge of manslaughter.

For example, if a person throws a brick off a bridge into vehicular traffic below they could be found to intend or be reckless as to assault or criminal damage (see DPP v Newbury[11]). There is no intent to kill, and a resulting death would not be considered murder, but would be considered involuntary manslaughter. The accused's responsibility for causing death is constructed from the fault in committing what might have been a minor criminal act.

To my understanding Bill Ayers never set out to kill anyone and thus "Constructive Manslaughter" would be the correct term for it, or am I wrong?

Your understanding is incorrect. Bill Ayers was part of a group of Weather Underground terrorist building a bomb with nail shrapnel they planned to detonate at a soldier's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Fortunately, most of them were blown up instead when they had a "work accident".

246 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:23:23pm

re: #198 iceweasel

frankly posing for a photo standing on an american flag puts you into firm deuchebag territory in my humble opinion.
he has the right to do it,and i have the right to call him a deuchebag for doing it.

247 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:23:42pm

re: #238 webevintage
Ayers was is a dick....
FTFY/

248 webevintage  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:24:44pm

re: #247 tradewind

Ayers was is a dick...
FTFY/

Thanks, he probably still is.

249 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:24:51pm

re: #245 Dark_Falcon

Your understanding is incorrect. Bill Ayers was part of a group of Weather Underground terrorist building a bomb with nail shrapnel they planned to detonate at a soldier's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Fortunately, most of them were blown up instead when they had a "work accident".

Constructive Manslaughter??? I think this is just not acceptable by any standards... no this is way over the line.

250 Stanghazi  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:24:59pm

re: #238 webevintage

Or that the interview was a reprint of on in Chicago Magazine in August or that he was not actually standing on the flag...not that is that less offensive, but it is always nice to have the facts right.
Ayers was a dick, and sucks as much as those idiots who seem to want a revolution now, BUT he had already been in custody for a year when the policemen were killed. It sucks that the authorities did not do their job right and he did not spend time in prison for blowing shit up and trying to start his own revolution.

I do now see how Ayers is the strawman in this conversation...I've forgotten all about that dick O'Keefe.

And now.....onto "constructive manslaughter" !!

251 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:25:32pm

re: #245 Dark_Falcon

Your understanding is incorrect. Bill Ayers was part of a group of Weather Underground terrorist building a bomb with nail shrapnel they planned to detonate at a soldier's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Fortunately, most of them were blown up instead when they had a "work accident".

Yeah, there's a vast difference between throwing a brick off a building and building a bomb.

252 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:25:58pm

re: #217 torrentprime
Maybe, if parsing is your hobby.//

253 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:26:54pm

re: #243 Buck

OK, BUT O'Keefe is NOT American Renaissance. At least not with anything I have seen. It just does not seem right for people to A=B=C this guy.

I updinged you not for any position you're taking on this topic, but because both sides now relentlessly try to smear all players, major and insignificant, based on whatever kind of sordid network of connections can be found. I feel strongly that it diverts attention from constructive discourse.

254 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:27:01pm

re: #5 Buck

OK, so who are you gonna believe?

The actual organizer, Marcus Epstein, says O'Keefe was not involved with organizing it. The picture of him manning a table with racist literature has not surfaced, only a cropped photo of him. There is no way that is all Isis got...

AND it is not really proven that it was white nationalist event.
In FACT Black conservative Kevin Martin, was one of several panelists at the Robert Taft Club ‘Race and Conservatism’ event in 2006, and he relates that he "had the chance to personally meet James O’Keefe after the event ended. He voiced personal support for me and my positions. He also repudiated the radical elements in the room that night."

or you can believe Isis.

Let's just say that while my grip on all this is still hazy, if Marcus Epstein told me the sky was blue, I would check a couple times.

255 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:27:13pm

re: #237 tradewind

More like a) criminally negligent homicide, or, probably as you meant it, b) ' collateral damage'.
I'd go with a, because their actions had clearly foreseeable consequences.
At least, for those who weren't too stoned.

I for one don't see it, once again I'm going to Wikipeida, I know..

Criminally negligent manslaughter

"Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales or culpable homicide in Scotland.

It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of wilful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim. It is most common in the case of professionals who are grossly negligent in the course of their employment. An example is where a doctor fails to notice a patient's oxygen supply has disconnected and the patient dies (R v Adomako)."

It sounds to me like Criminally negligent manslaughter is what you get when you aren't intending to do anything bad at all but somehow you screw up and someone dies because of it.

Bill Ayers clearly intended to blow up buildings, but stated that he never intended to harm anyone in the process, if someone ended up getting hurt/killed then that would sound more like "Constructive Manslaughter" to me, which is where you set out to commit crime A and along the way you kill someone without ever intending to.

256 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:27:14pm

If you wonder why the serious Left has no use for Ayers, re-read this thread. He damaged our efforts then, and still forty years later.

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:28:13pm

re: #13 cliffster

I sure hope we get to the bottom of this. I would hate to think that O'Keefe, under a cloud of these accusations, would get elected to.. wait.. what is he running for again?

Cellblock Monitor of the Month.

258 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:28:24pm

re: #255 jamesfirecat

Kid, keep your day job. You suck at the law.

259 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:28:29pm

re: #255 jamesfirecat

Hmm, and earlier this thread you said you weren't trying to defend him at all. That sure sounded like defending... ;)

260 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:28:31pm

re: #236 MandyManners

Are you sure you don't mean "felony murder"?

Prove Bill Ayers had malice aforethought, in regard to those deaths.

261 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:28:37pm

re: #163 Decatur Deb

Happy Friday, Decatur!

262 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:29:17pm

What's the Serious Left, anyway?
I'm still trying to figure out the Serious Right.
Going to bang my head on a desk a few times now to see if I can clear this picture of Ayers as not really wanting anyone hurt.//
BBL

263 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:29:18pm

re: #260 jamesfirecat

Prove Bill Ayers had malice aforethought, in regard to those deaths.

the bomb built itself? Buzzzzzzzzzzz. next.

264 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:29:39pm

re: #255 jamesfirecat

They're now deliberately misunderstanding that you meant constructive manslaughter as a legal term, and will proceed with the whooping and a-hollerin and the pretence that you are a 'defender' of Ayers.

Not that this isn't apparent to others, but don't let the shrill yapping of the pack of tiny mangy poodles disturb you.

265 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:29:45pm

We should ask SNL to refilm their Palin skit for the defenders/deniers on this thread:


when i say 'O'keefe' you say 'Ayers'
O'keefe! (Ayers) O'keefe! (Ayers)
266 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:29:46pm

re: #255 jamesfirecat

It sounds to me like Criminally negligent manslaughter is what you get when you aren't intending to do anything bad at all

yeah ,,because building bombs with nails in them and blowing shit up are "INTENDED" for GOOD purposes like ,,, umm,,,,, eeerrr ,,,,,

(can I get back on this!?!?!)

267 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:29:46pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

Cellblock Monitor of the Month.

Nice to see you SFZ. Hope your weekend is starting off grand...

268 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:30:17pm

re: #253 cliffster

I updinged you not for any position you're taking on this topic, but because both sides now relentlessly try to smear all players, major and insignificant, based on whatever kind of sordid network of connections can be found. I feel strongly that it diverts attention from constructive discourse.

Well, thank you. Looks like I lost about net 60 today.

269 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:30:22pm

re: #261 prairiefire

Happy Friday, Decatur!

Hi PF. Keep them nice for me, the dog is about to file a grievance.

270 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:30:23pm

mah haid it sploded

271 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:30:25pm

re: #31 Ojoe

Isis sounds like a self given hippie name to me.

Not necessarily. I know plenty of people with hippie names given to them by their parents.

272 solomonpanting  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:30:44pm

re: #241 jamesfirecat

Last time I checked "terrorism" is not a crime you charge people with in court.

Well, now that it's referred to as “man-caused disasters” you are correct.

"Book 'em, Dano, and, uh, read 'em his rights."

273 webevintage  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:31:02pm

The fact that those douchebags building that bomb for Fort Dix got blowded up all over the place does, at times, show how the Universe does balance things out every once in awhile.

274 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:31:04pm

re: #260 jamesfirecat
Not required in felony murder charge. Just the knowledge is enough.
[Link: dictionary.law.com...]

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:31:07pm

re: #34 brookly red

at the end of the day if it is all true, it's still all legal. distasteful yes but legal all the same.

Yes, but it certainly would undermine further this guy's already shaky claim to be the champion of Truth, Justice and the American Way.

276 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:31:11pm

re: #253 cliffster

I updinged you not for any position you're taking on this topic, but because both sides now relentlessly try to smear all players, major and insignificant, based on whatever kind of sordid network of connections can be found. I feel strongly that it diverts attention from constructive discourse.

When people attend events like the one at issue here, I am happy to bring attention to it. They have smeared themselves by their actions.

277 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:31:26pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

Not necessarily. I know plenty of people with hippie names given to them by their HIPPIE parents.

ftfy

//

278 Boondock St. Bender  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:31:36pm

re: #260 jamesfirecat

unless his bomb was designed to discharge pillow feathers and bunny farts,then yeah you have malice in mind.

279 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:31:46pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

Not necessarily. I know plenty of people with hippie names given to them by their parents.

Names like "Mercy" and "Verity"?

280 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:31:46pm

re: #266 sattv4u2

It sounds to me like Criminally negligent manslaughter is what you get when you aren't intending to do anything bad at all

yeah ,,because building bombs with nails in them and blowing shit up are "INTENDED" for GOOD purposes like ,,, umm,,, eeerrr ,,,

(can I get back on this!?!?!)

Yeah that's why I said what Bill Ayers did couldn't be called Criminally Negligent Manslaughter. You have a funny way of agreeing with me...

281 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:31:47pm

re: #39 LotharBot

The whole phone tapping a US Senator thing? Oh, that's no big deal, it's just a little treason is all, nothing major...

///

It's not treason. It's just very illegal.

282 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:32:03pm

re: #260 jamesfirecat

His actions and his statements make all that "proof" abundantly clear for the purposes of understanding what kind of person he is. His philosophy etc. Ever read "Prarie Fire"?

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:32:53pm

re: #58 Buck

Of course, nothing I see /read there is evidence at all.

Let's concentrate on conservative Kevin Martin... is he a racist? He was a panelist.

Let's just say that I find his taste in friends highly dubious.

284 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:32:59pm

re: #279 Decatur Deb

Sunshine, Solstice, Wind,......

285 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:33:09pm

People who blow up buildings to make extreme minority political points, whether people are in those buildings are not, are terrorists. On top of that we have only their word that they cared or planned for people being in the buildings or not, and we have evidence that Dohrn and Ayers have demonstrably lied several times.

286 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:33:56pm

re: #274 tradewind

Not required in felony murder charge. Just the knowledge is enough.
[Link: dictionary.law.com...]

Wow Wikipedia really sucks...

"Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought. "

287 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:34:04pm

re: #264 iceweasel

They're now deliberately misunderstanding that you meant constructive manslaughter as a legal term, and will proceed with the whooping and a-hollerin and the pretence that you are a 'defender' of Ayers.

Not that this isn't apparent to others, but don't let the shrill yapping of the pack of tiny mangy poodles disturb you.

so you approve of terrorist bombings? I do believe it is a yes or no question.

288 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:34:20pm

re: #284 prairiefire

For real? Cool.

289 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:34:42pm

re: #287 brookly red

so you approve of terrorist bombings? I do believe it is a yes or no question.

I see what you did there.

290 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:34:46pm

re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist

Let's just say that I find his taste in friends highly dubious.

Just curious, is that based on who Isis says are his friends?

291 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:34:56pm

re: #286 jamesfirecat

Wow Wikipedia really sucks...

"Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought. "

building & planting a bomb is both.

292 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:35:52pm

re: #204 jamesfirecat

I feel unable to maintain the level of hatred towards acts of Constructive Manslaughter that happened so long ago, most likely because no one I know was harmed by them thus making me biased in favor of looking the other way and the person seems to have turned over a new leaf.

Clear and present day racism on the other hand to me strikes more deeply because (to me) it is a sign that either someone's brain isn't working right, or they were raised with deplorable values about how it is okay to blame and persecute people for things which are clearly beyond their control.

Thus I bow my head and admit that you are actually right about this one and I'm probably just operating with "liberal blinders" on and unable to properly view things in regard to the big picture.

Ayers was and is a deplorable shithead for his history of home-grown terrorism, who has only been "reformed" in recent history. He is a man who was still pimping his Weathermen exploits as recently as that 9/10/01 New York Times article ("guilty as hell, free as a bird")...as the saying goes, G-d may forgive him but I sure as hell won't.

Constructive Manslaughter...WTF?!?

293 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:36:02pm

re: #287 brookly red

so you approve of terrorist bombings? I do believe it is a yes or no question.

Stop it brookly. You know damn well that iceweasel no friend of terrorism.

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:36:06pm

re: #84 Buck

How about anyone could be there, and it would not mean that they were racists?

How about, it does rather increase the odds?

295 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:36:23pm

re: #85 Buck

That's racist.

Yeah. They're racists. That's what they do.

296 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:36:31pm

re: #289 torrentprime

I see what you did there.

yeah, I put it out there...

297 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:36:58pm

re: #286 jamesfirecat

Wow Wikipedia really sucks...

"Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought. "

Because if there is one thing we can be sure of, nobody EVER inhabits a building, so you would know beforehand there was no malice intended!!!

oh ,,, wait ,,,,, shit!

298 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:37:17pm

re: #282 Rightwingconspirator

His actions and his statements make all that "proof" abundantly clear for the purposes of understanding what kind of person he is. His philosophy etc. Ever read "Prarie Fire"?

No I haven't, care to give me some quotes?

299 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:37:24pm

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. They're racists. That's what they do.

Yes, but that was not O'Keefe.

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:37:24pm

re: #98 tradewind

I'm not sure why he's walking free now. And I'm sure the family of the police officer killed in the bombings his group pulled off aren't either.
" Free as a bird, Guilty as Sin"
....William Ayers

And by having got off, he apparently absolves all kinds of people of all kinds of shit...

301 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:37:46pm

re: #287 brookly red

Here's my obvious answer to you: Cram that right up your ass. Never speak to me again.

302 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:38:00pm

re: #293 Dark_Falcon

Stop it brookly. You know damn well that iceweasel no friend of terrorism.

she is welcome to denounce the bombings if she so chooses.

303 Silvergirl  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:38:07pm

re: #287 brookly red

so you approve of terrorist bombings? I do believe it is a yes or no question.

Don't you think you're over the line here?

304 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:38:12pm

re: #105 Buck

Again someone using Isis quotes to support Isis.

No, I am asking you to dismiss everything Isis tells you as suspect. Remove it all. None of it can be backed up.

What are you left with?

The word of a man who commits funny little crimes whenever he feels like it.

305 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:39:49pm

re: #302 brookly red

And you're welcome to go fuck yourself.

306 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:40:12pm

re: #276 wrenchwench

When people attend events like the one at issue here, I am happy to bring attention to it. They have smeared themselves by their actions.

I'm not going to argue with that, but the larger point of what I said supports you. If we have this non-stop barrage of smears by evil connections, then the legitimate ones get yawned at. Ho-hum, another story of this guy hangs out with that guy.

307 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:40:38pm

re: #303 Silvergirl

Don't you think you're over the line here?

No, there is no justification for bombing/killing for political reasons.

308 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:40:57pm

Yikes!

Another pleasant Friday afternoon on the nets I see.

309 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:41:48pm

re: #306 cliffster

I'm not going to argue with that, but the larger point of what I said supports you. If we have this non-stop barrage of smears by evil connections, then the legitimate ones get yawned at. Ho-hum, another story of this guy hangs out with that guy.

Some of us can handle a non-stop barrage. I consider it better than letting them lurk in the shadows, plotting.

310 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:41:48pm

re: #308 Racer X

Yikes!

Another pleasant Friday afternoon on the nets I see.

"wasn't me, dad ,,,, HE started it!!"
/

311 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:42:11pm

re: #307 brookly red

No, there is no justification for bombing/killing for political reasons.

LOLOLOL
Yeah, because that's what you accused iceweasel of.

312 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:42:56pm

re: #287 brookly red

so you approve of terrorist bombings? I do believe it is a yes or no question.

The answer is...you're an idiot.

And I do believe you are making this ridiculous accusation because you feel embarrassed about being so utterly busted the other night over your claim that iceweasel was not a New Yorker.

313 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:43:08pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

The word of a man who commits funny little crimes whenever he feels like it.

What you are left with is ZERO evidence that he was an organizer or staffed a table handing out racist literature.

314 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:43:15pm

re: #302 brookly red

she is welcome to denounce the bombings if she so chooses.

She's never said one approving word about any act of terrorist, and if memory serves she denounced Ayers on the blog last year. You're acting like Robert Spencer, expecting denouncements all the time.

315 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:43:45pm

re: #311 torrentprime

LOLOLOL
Yeah, because that's what you accused iceweasel of.

no, she defended secondhand someone else's defense of it.

316 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:44:01pm

re: #244 cliffster

I'm trying to figure out what any of this has to do with ACORN taking federal money, then endorsing and promoting democratic candidates?

And as long as ACORN has any cloud of suspicion hanging over it, we cannot criticize O'Keefe?

317 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:44:01pm

re: #302 brookly red

she is welcome to denounce the bombings if she so chooses.

dude, her point was that the ayers discussion is a distraction, not that Ayers is all-cool-and-shit.

318 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:44:11pm

But seriously -- why were people so quick to back away from calling this a "white nationalist" event? Simply because a black conservative was invited? That's pretty pathetic criteria for determining the accuracy of that statement.

If Marcus Epstein was in charge of inviting speakers, and it was organized by VDARE, American Renaissance, and the Taft Club, why the hell shouldn't this be called a "white nationalist" event? Do they have to be wearing Nazi uniforms?

319 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:44:21pm

re: #308 Racer X

Yikes!

Another pleasant Friday afternoon on the nets I see.

Yeesh! It's Friday already? Damn, it's been a crazy week.

320 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:45:26pm

re: #318 Charles

But seriously -- why were people so quick to back away from calling this a "white nationalist" event? Simply because a black conservative was invited? That's pretty pathetic criteria for determining the accuracy of that statement.

If Marcus Epstein was in charge of inviting speakers, and it was organized by VDARE, American Renaissance, and the Taft Club, why the hell shouldn't this be called a "white nationalist" event? Do they have to be wearing Nazi uniforms?

They just don't want to hear it. Denial is strong.

321 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:45:48pm

re: #307 brookly red

There is no justification for you DARING to suggest such a thing about me. Go to hell. I'm logging off now because I am far too angry to deal with this: let me just say that it reveals how loathsome and despicable you are. I have nothing but contempt for you.

You're reeking with butthurt because two nights ago you made the ridiculous assertion that it was liberal Dems gaybashing people in the West Village, and when i mocked you you called me an 'outside agitator' who didn't live there-- and you've been seething ever since because I'm a native New Yorker, you fucking cretin.
And this is your response.
Fuck you.
Never speak to me again you disgusting vile person.

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:45:54pm

re: #279 Decatur Deb

Names like "Mercy" and "Verity"?

Lichen. Earth. Paisley. Shenandoah. Geronimo. Zephyr. Sundance.

323 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:46:06pm

re: #313 Buck

What you are left with is ZERO evidence that he was an organizer or staffed a table handing out racist literature.

Just his confession that he attended a racist convention! No big.
"But okeef did nah stack chairz, so iz ok"

324 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:46:15pm

re: #316 SanFranciscoZionist

And as long as ACORN has any cloud of suspicion hanging over it, we cannot criticize O'Keefe?

Actually no. It's a question of pertinence. My rhetorical question also begs the question, what does a couple of lower-level workers signing on to a prostitution ring have to do with ACORN taking federal money and then endorsing and supporting democratic candidates.

325 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:46:53pm

re: #318 Charles

I'd imagine them singing Springtime for Hitler and recreating the Beer Hall Putsch might convince them a little until BJ said that was "just crazy"

Then they'd go back to their denouncing of anyone who pointed out these facts.

326 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:47:03pm

re: #285 Thanos
I think it's like this.

People who blow up buildings to make extreme minority political points, whether people are in those buildings are not, are terrorists.
327 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:47:23pm

re: #317 cliffster

dude, her point was that the ayers discussion is a distraction, not that Ayers is all-cool-and-shit.

to me murder is a black/white, yes/no issue... there is no middle ground. If that make me unpopular, such is life.

328 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:47:29pm

re: #297 sattv4u2

Because if there is one thing we can be sure of, nobody EVER inhabits a building, so you would know beforehand there was no malice intended!!!

oh ,,, wait ,,, shit!

From what I understood (via reading Wikipedia so I am quite open to being proven wrong) The Weathermen tended to send notes about how "We're going to bomb this place" before they actually did it which sounds like they were trying to prevent anybody from getting hurt when they committed their illegal bombings of federal property.

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:47:30pm

re: #299 Buck

Yes, but that was not O'Keefe.

That wasn't your question.

330 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:47:53pm

Oh f**k, here we go again...

*sighs*

331 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:49:22pm

re: #245 Dark_Falcon

Bill Ayers was part of a group of Weather Underground terrorist building a bomb with nail shrapnel they planned to detonate at a soldier's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Fortunately, most of them were blown up instead when they had a "work accident".

But you can't charge someone with "having a work accident". Nor can you charge them with "terrorism". You have to charge them with a specific crime.

From what I can tell, "constructive manslaughter" would be the appropriate charge if Ayers had killed someone when he was only trying to bomb property (say, if one of his bombings of a building he thought was empty had killed someone.) "Homicide", perhaps even "constructive homicide", would be the appropriate charge if he killed his own allies with a bomb he'd intended to be used on soldiers (if there was enough evidence to connect him to the Greenwich explosion.) "Criminally negligent manslaughter/homicide" would be the charge if he was warned of a bombing he wasn't a part of, failed to pass on the warning, and someone was killed.

I'm not excusing any of his crimes, just trying to understand the legal names we'd use for any given crime, since it's been made an issue for downdings and such.

332 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:49:40pm

re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist

That wasn't your question.

Which question do you mean?

333 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:50:11pm

re: #331 LotharBot

But you can't charge someone with "having a work accident". Nor can you charge them with "terrorism". You have to charge them with a specific crime.

From what I can tell, "constructive manslaughter" would be the appropriate charge if Ayers had killed someone when he was only trying to bomb property (say, if one of his bombings of a building he thought was empty had killed someone.) "Homicide", perhaps even "constructive homicide", would be the appropriate charge if he killed his own allies with a bomb he'd intended to be used on soldiers (if there was enough evidence to connect him to the Greenwich explosion.) "Criminally negligent manslaughter/homicide" would be the charge if he was warned of a bombing he wasn't a part of, failed to pass on the warning, and someone was killed.

I'm not excusing any of his crimes, just trying to understand the legal names we'd use for any given crime, since it's been made an issue for downdings and such.

Thank you.

334 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:50:23pm

re: #318 Charles

But seriously -- why were people so quick to back away from calling this a "white nationalist" event? Simply because a black conservative was invited? That's pretty pathetic criteria for determining the accuracy of that statement.

If Marcus Epstein was in charge of inviting speakers, and it was organized by VDARE, American Renaissance, and the Taft Club, why the hell shouldn't this be called a "white nationalist" event? Do they have to be wearing Nazi uniforms?

For me, this just falls into the "Well, duh!" column...anyone with some common sense should feel the same way.

335 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:50:53pm

re: #327 brookly red

to me murder is a black/white, yes/no issue... there is no middle ground. If that make me unpopular, such is life.

"It's so important to me, I'll accuse people of supporting it in the absence of evidence or common sense! Such is life!"

336 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:51:05pm

re: #327 brookly red

to me murder is a black/white, yes/no issue... there is no middle ground. If that make me unpopular, such is life.

you're missing my point. The point is, that wasn't the issue. ice was taking no stance on the murder issue, only that the topic was brought up only to distract from the topic at hand.

337 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:51:26pm

re: #328 jamesfirecat

From what I understood (via reading Wikipedia so I am quite open to being proven wrong) The Weathermen tended to send notes about how "We're going to bomb this place" before they actually did it which sounds like they were trying to prevent anybody from getting hurt when they committed their illegal bombings of federal property.

I see. So they're absolved because they sent a note!

What if you or I said "Who the fuck are these bozos? Bomb our building, indeed. I have work to do"

What if you or I were out sick the day they sent the note and didn't get word?

What if we were the overnight cleaning crew who wouldn't be privvy to their "note"

What if you wandered in there unaware, thinking you were in the correct building but weren't!?!?!

338 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:51:42pm

re: #298 jamesfirecat

Sure. I added the bold

"We need a revolutionary communist party to lead the struggle give coherence and direction to the fight, seize power and build the new society."

339 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:52:41pm

re: #327 brookly red

BROOKLY RED, THAT WILL BE ENOUGH!! You persist in your hostile mischaracterization of iceweasel after having been told repeatedly that it is not grounded in reality. I've seen where the path you are walking ends, and it ends with a timeout or a banning. I strongly suggest you log off for the night. Take some time to think, then come back tomorrow.

340 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:52:45pm

Completely silly and pointless "What If" here...

What if the telephone repairman shenanigan had the names Moulitsas and Brown attached to it rather than the names O'Keefe and Landrieu. How would the blogosphere dialog be different?

I know, stupid question. Just wondering out loud.

341 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:52:45pm

re: #332 Buck

Which question do you mean?

You kept insisting that we account for Kevin Martin, FOCUS on him, even. Someone said that they had invited him for his race, which I find highly likely.

You said that was racist. I agreed, but pointed out that these people are racists, so that's not surprising.

You then went back to, "but that wasn't O'Keefe", which may be true, but has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make about how Kevin Martin somehow absolved this unpleasant event.

342 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:52:55pm

re: #327 brookly red

to me murder is a black/white, yes/no issue... there is no middle ground. If that make me unpopular, such is life.

You are not kidding anyone with your moronic charade. Your suggestion that iceweasel supports terrorism puts you in the category of things I've scraped off the bottom of my shoe. My advice for you is simply to fuck off.

343 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:54:19pm

re: #342 Jimmah

You are not kidding anyone with your moronic charade. Your suggestion that iceweasel supports terrorism puts you in the category of things I've scraped off the bottom of my shoe. My advice for you is simply to fuck off.


so Ayers was wrong ?

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:54:29pm

re: #340 Slumbering Behemoth

Completely silly and pointless "What If" here...

What if the telephone repairman shenanigan had the names Moulitsas and Brown attached to it rather than the names O'Keefe and Landrieu. How would the blogosphere dialog be different?

I know, stupid question. Just wondering out loud.

Reversal Test. I think you'd see an almost perfect reversal of left-right talking points in this case.

345 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:54:59pm

re: #337 sattv4u2

I see. So they're absolved because they sent a note!

What if you or I said "Who the fuck are these bozos? Bomb our building, indeed. I have work to do"

What if you or I were out sick the day they sent the note and didn't get word?

What if we were the overnight cleaning crew who wouldn't be privvy to their "note"

What if you wandered in there unaware, thinking you were in the correct building but weren't!?!?!

Then you would still be dead, and it would be a horrible thing, and Bill Ayers would have committed yet another crime in addition to the blowing up a/a part of a building crime he committed.

But Bill Ayers wouldn't have ever intended to kill you.

That's why it would be Constructive Manslaughter.

If he drove over somebody with his car while speeding through a red light would you argue with me that it was vehicular manslaughter?

346 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:55:26pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

BROOKLY RED, THAT WILL BE ENOUGH!! You persist in your hostile mischaracterization of iceweasel after having been told repeatedly that it is not grounded in reality. I've seen where the path you are walking ends, and it ends with a timeout or a banning. I strongly suggest you log off for the night. Take some time to think, then come back tomorrow.

I can get behind that. I think brook red is better than that, and doesn't realize the weight of what he was saying. Everybody gets worked up on things sometimes.

347 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:55:33pm

I guess this is what strikes me the most... in my own mind at least, I am somewhat active in politics and with the circle I run around with, but how do you manage to stumble onto one of these conventions? I don't even think I would know where to find one. So for this O'keefe guy, former idol of Oh no...Sand People but now recently dethroned due to stupid phone antics and now attending stupid racist event gatherings, to be there is quite telling in my mind.

348 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:55:34pm

re: #343 brookly red

so Ayers was wrong ?

Yeah, because the thread's opinion on that was in doubt.

349 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:55:46pm

re: #340 Slumbering Behemoth

Completely silly and pointless "What If" here...

What if the telephone repairman shenanigan had the names Moulitsas and Brown attached to it rather than the names O'Keefe and Landrieu. How would the blogosphere dialog be different?

I know, stupid question. Just wondering out loud.

You got a noisy brain there !!

///

350 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:55:55pm

re: #343 brookly red

so Ayers was wrong ?

Do you really think that's an inoffensive question to pose here?

351 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:55:55pm

I need video of this entire event to understand what it really was.

And just because someone was There...still wouldn't mean much to me. Especially an event on a college campus. I've been to plenty, especially when I got into philosophy and theology..I wanted to see for myself, so I went running around attending all kinds of odd events....just to learn and see the other sides....and it never meant that I bought into what they were 'trying' to sell.

This entire non-troversy is sooooooo silly.

When you catch O'Keefe actually, you know, being a RACIST, I'll think twice, but not until then. This is so pathetic.

352 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:56:23pm

re: #341 SanFranciscoZionist

You kept insisting that we account for Kevin Martin, FOCUS on him, even. Someone said that they had invited him for his race, which I find highly likely.

You said that was racist. I agreed, but pointed out that these people are racists, so that's not surprising.

You then went back to, "but that wasn't O'Keefe", which may be true, but has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make about how Kevin Martin somehow absolved this unpleasant event.

I don't think I understand you, or you don't understand me.

IS IT FAIR to call everyone a racist who attended this event. Kevin Martin remembers meeting O'Keefe at the even, and O'Keefe supported him, not the racists. So unless we all agree that Kevin Martin is a racist and a liar, then O'Keefe was there and was NOT someone who agreed with Epstein et all (despite what Isis says).

353 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:56:36pm

re: #343 brookly red

so Ayers was wrong ?

I will take your downding as to mean you approve of his actions.

354 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:56:45pm

re: #161 Charles

...Kevin Martin was invited as cover...

So what does that make Kevin Martin for attending?

355 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:56:57pm

re: #351 CarryOn

Helping organize a racist confab wasn't enough proof for you?

GAZE

356 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:57:56pm

re: #353 brookly red

No, take it to mean that Jimmah and I think you are being an asshole.

357 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:58:03pm

re: #338 Rightwingconspirator

Sure. I added the bold

"We need a revolutionary communist party to lead the struggle give coherence and direction to the fight, seize power and build the new society."

There is such a thing as a bloodless revolution. (All smotherings!)

Allow me to give you a counter quote.

"We were very careful from the moment of the townhouse on to be sure we weren't going to hurt anybody, and we never did hurt anybody. Whenever we put a bomb in a public space, we had figured out all kinds of ways to put checks and balances on the thing and also to get people away from it, and we were remarkably successful."

That to me sounds like about as strong an argument for no Malice Aforethought as you could get.....

358 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:58:09pm

re: #349 sattv4u2

You got a noisy brain there !!

///

Just be happy you don't live with me. I dream out loud too.

359 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:58:11pm

re: #355 Dark_Falcon

Helping organize a racist confab wasn't enough proof for you?

GAZE

And why do you think O'Keefe organized a racist confab?

360 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:58:27pm

re: #355 Dark_Falcon

Helping organize a racist confab wasn't enough proof for you?

GAZE

O'Keefe says he helped organize it? Really? Where?

361 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:58:52pm

re: #350 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you really think that's an inoffensive question to pose here?

no, it seems to have offended a lot of people... to tell you the truth I am surprised.

362 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:59:12pm

re: #351 CarryOn

Image: large_acorn-sting-pimp.jpg

Will a sterotype pimp outfit help change your mind?

363 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:59:13pm

re: #360 CarryOn

O'Keefe says he helped organize it? Really? Where?

Well, in the absence of a videotaped confession, can we ever really know?

/

364 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:59:19pm

re: #358 Slumbering Behemoth

Just be happy you don't live with me. I dream out loud too.

LOL...I like that...."I dream out loud.."

365 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:59:35pm

re: #343 brookly red

so Ayers was wrong ?

What part of 'fuck off' are you having difficulty with?

366 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:59:46pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

Lichen. Earth. Paisley. Shenandoah. Geronimo. Zephyr. Sundance.

Three of those look useable to me. The first two I gave you are my daughters.

367 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 3:59:58pm

re: #362 harry91

[Link: cinie.files.wordpress.com...]

Will a sterotype pimp outfit help change your mind?

No. But, it sure did show me the inner workings of ACORN offices all across this country.

368 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:00:18pm

re: #352 Buck

I don't think I understand you, or you don't understand me.

IS IT FAIR to call everyone a racist who attended this event. Kevin Martin remembers meeting O'Keefe at the even, and O'Keefe supported him, not the racists. So unless we all agree that Kevin Martin is a racist and a liar, then O'Keefe was there and was NOT someone who agreed with Epstein et all (despite what Isis says).

I don't know if O'Keefe is a racist, and I don't much care. I know he's an accused criminal and an opportunist. And you have actually changed your entire argument from the beginning of this. You began by bringing up Martin to try to convince people this was not a racist event. It clearly was, so now you're trying "But that doesn't prove O'Keefe's bad!"

OK.

369 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:00:21pm

re: #365 Jimmah

What part of 'fuck off' are you having difficulty with?

your authority to issue it.

370 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:00:26pm

re: #363 torrentprime

Well, in the absence of a videotaped confession, can we ever really know?

/

If ya don't know, don't claim to know.

371 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:00:27pm

re: #365 Jimmah

What part of 'fuck off' are you having difficulty with?

I shouldn't up that, I guess (trying to be all mature and sh!t), but that's too damn funny not to.

372 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:00:37pm

Back on topic: I stand by what I said in #19. This was obviously a white nationalist-sponsored event. O'Keefe was obviously there. One person claimed he was there helping with setup, was friends with the organizer, and agreed with the organizer's racist views. She also took a photograph of him at the event, claiming he was passing out racist literature, but the version of the photo she released doesn't show that. Meanwhile, we have someone else saying Kevin Martin said O'Keefe was arguing against the racists and showing support for KM's position. And we know KM was suckered into attending, but we don't know about O'Keefe.

Net result: I still don't know who to believe. But it's still great drama. And the whole thing could be settled by Isis -- not by her testimony, but by the full version of her photo.

373 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:00:59pm

Sooo... room's probably too hot right now for chronic masturbation jokes...

I'll save 'em for later.

374 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:01:20pm

re: #345 jamesfirecat

Then you would still be dead, and it would be a horrible thing, and Bill Ayers would have committed yet another crime in addition to the blowing up a/a part of a building crime he committed.

But Bill Ayers wouldn't have ever intended to kill you.

That's why it would be Constructive Manslaughter.

If he drove over somebody with his car while speeding through a red light would you argue with me that it was vehicular manslaughter?

It IS vehicular mansluaghter. You killed someone while driving at the time you were committing a non-felonious act (running a red light)

Ayers (et al) WERE committing a felony (blowing up a building).

375 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:01:24pm

It seems to me things have been getting j u s t a l i t t l e b i t testy around here lately. I think I may have a solution that will help keep things from getting out of hand.

LGF Etiquette:

When you feel like telling another poster to f%ck off and die, try this phrase instead: May the remainder of your life be filled with several minutes of auto-erotic pleasure.

When a poster is acting like an a$$hole, kindly point out that they are demonstrating anus like tendencies.

Instead of calling someone an idiot, kindly refer to them as being intellectually challenged.

I'm sure if we all think hard we could come up with other more pleasant ways to express our dissatisfaction with occasional offensive posts.

Thank you,
Racer X

376 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:01:31pm

re: #372 LotharBot

Back on topic: I stand by what I said in #19. This was obviously a white nationalist-sponsored event. O'Keefe was obviously there. One person claimed he was there helping with setup, was friends with the organizer, and agreed with the organizer's racist views. She also took a photograph of him at the event, claiming he was passing out racist literature, but the version of the photo she released doesn't show that. Meanwhile, we have someone else saying Kevin Martin said O'Keefe was arguing against the racists and showing support for KM's position. And we know KM was suckered into attending, but we don't know about O'Keefe.

Net result: I still don't know who to believe. But it's still great drama. And the whole thing could be settled by Isis -- not by her testimony, but by the full version of her photo.

And the entire ACORN thing could be settled by an unedited version of O'Keefe's tape.

Not trying to defend either one.

377 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:01:56pm

re: #370 CarryOn

If ya don't know, don't claim to know.

Please apply to this to the entire socialist/muslim/anti-American crap thrown at Obama for the last year or so and let me know what the political discourse from the right has remaining.

378 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:01:59pm

re: #368 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know if O'Keefe is a racist, and I don't much care. I know he's an accused criminal and an opportunist. And you have actually changed your entire argument from the beginning of this. You began by bringing up Martin to try to convince people this was not a racist event. It clearly was, so now you're trying "But that doesn't prove O'Keefe's bad!"

OK.

For flip's sake. OBAMA is an "accused criminal"...cases in courts right now. Doesn't mean the man is a criminal. Jeeeeeez

379 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:02:14pm

re: #367 CarryOn


To me it really showed his mindset. The tapes were heavily edited, he films with the pimp outfit, it's pretty obvious what he means by it, and when called out hides berhind the noise machine.

He's a horrible little man.

380 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:02:38pm

re: #359 Buck

And why do you think O'Keefe organized a racist confab?

Setting up and running the literature table and finding speakers constitutes "organizing" in my eyes.

381 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:03:04pm

re: #379 harry91

To me it really showed his mindset. The tapes were heavily edited, he films with the pimp outfit, it's pretty obvious what he means by it, and when called out hides berhind the noise machine.

He's a horrible little man.

I wouldn't even go so far as to call him a man, I'd say "snot nosed brat" personally.

382 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:03:20pm

re: #375 Racer X

LOL, I like that.

383 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:04:07pm

re: #373 Slumbering Behemoth

Sooo... room's probably too hot right now for chronic masturbation jokes...

I'll save 'em for later.

Try it in the style used by #375 Racer X.

384 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:04:44pm

re: #361 brookly red

no, it seems to have offended a lot of people... to tell you the truth I am surprised.

I think you're not really seeing what you're saying. Like I said, I think you're better than the way your comments are coming across. Just let it go, if you feel like apologizing later, go for it.

385 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:04:46pm

re: #369 brookly red

He's ice's husband. That means he gets to tell off people who insult her. In fact, its expected of him. If someone insulted your wife in your presence, wouldn't you curse him out?

386 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:04:50pm

re: #381 jamesfirecat


true that

387 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:04:53pm

re: #374 sattv4u2

It IS vehicular mansluaghter. You killed someone while driving at the time you were committing a non-felonious act (running a red light)

Ayers (et al) WERE committing a felony (blowing up a building).

So if you kill someone without the intent to kill, in fact while trying to take several precautions to prevent you from killing anyone, but while committing a felony its still homicide and not manslaughter?

388 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:04:54pm

re: #367 CarryOn

No one could possibly take a dude like that in a get-up like that seriously as an actual pimp. Until all the raw footage is released, I'm betting that anyone talking to him in that get-up was fucking with him knowing he was an obvious prankster, and he quote mined the crap out of the raw footage to get the narrative he wanted.

389 Stanghazi  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:04:58pm

re: #362 harry91

[Link: cinie.files.wordpress.com...]

Will a sterotype pimp outfit help change your mind?

CarryOn is a fellow traveler I believe.

390 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:05:35pm

re: #379 harry91

To me it really showed his mindset. The tapes were heavily edited, he films with the pimp outfit, it's pretty obvious what he means by it, and when called out hides berhind the noise machine.

He's a horrible little man.

This is hilarious to me. Really? Actually, it should show you the "mindset" of the people who took him seriously. If he had walked into MY office with that Get up on..I would have laughed him out the door.
Come ON.
He's horrible for showing us the Truth about where our tax dollars go? Give me a break. So, the guys that did the sting on child sex offenders are horrible for pretending to be children and busting them on camera?
Really???????

391 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:07:14pm

re: #390 CarryOn

Dude looked like Buggy Hair from Starsky and Hutch. C'mon man.

392 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:07:20pm

re: #375 Racer X

I suggest you undo your rectal/cranial inversion so that you may have the opportunity to perform and anatomical impossibility.

;)

393 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:07:50pm

re: #388 Slumbering Behemoth


Oh I agree I'd love to see the footage. But far from a prank his little escapade did hurt an organization, that on the whole, isn't that bad.

Sure there are issues with Acorn but there reason for being in grounded in some pretty harsh realities.

394 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:08:06pm

re: #373 Slumbering Behemoth

Sooo... room's probably too hot right now for chronic masturbation jokes...

I'll save 'em for later.


Superego censor upding.

395 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:09:23pm

re: #375 Racer X

It seems to me that your etiquette list leaves something important out:

Don't accuse other americans, particularly native new yorkers, of supporting the terrorist bombings of buildings.

A little less concern for 'civility' ("don't use naughty words!") and a little more common decency is called for.

396 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:10:19pm

re: #363 torrentprime

Well, in the absence of a videotaped confession, can we ever really know?

/

Well, in absence of any evidence we should not accuse him.re: #368 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know if O'Keefe is a racist, and I don't much care. I know he's an accused criminal and an opportunist. And you have actually changed your entire argument from the beginning of this. You began by bringing up Martin to try to convince people this was not a racist event. It clearly was, so now you're trying "But that doesn't prove O'Keefe's bad!"

OK.

All I have been trying to say, here and in previous threads where people were saying that he was a wiretapper... that we need to stick to the facts.

Charles has no problem saying the Marcus Epstein and Taft Club means it was a White Nationalist Event. I am going to bow out of that. I still think it is JUST AS UNFAIR to call O'Keefe a Racist based on that, just as much as it would be to say that everyone who innocently attended was a racist.

397 Stanghazi  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:10:19pm

re: #378 CarryOn

For flip's sake. OBAMA is an "accused criminal"...cases in courts right now. Doesn't mean the man is a criminal. Jeeez

BIRTHER ALERT

398 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:10:22pm

re: #395 iceweasel

It seems to me that your etiquette list leaves something important out:

Don't accuse other americans, particularly native new yorkers, of supporting the terrorist bombings of buildings.

A little less concern for 'civility' ("don't use naughty words!") and a little more common decency is called for.

I think I can save you some space there....

Don't accuse other(s) of supporting the terrorist bombings of buildings.

Probably a good general rule of thumb.

399 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:11:04pm

re: #395 iceweasel

. . . a little more common decency is called for.

Indeed.

400 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:11:11pm

re: #393 harry91

His intent was not a prank, no, but what I meant was that the folks on the receiving end likely saw it as someone trying to pull a prank.

/I must learn to type better

401 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:11:52pm

re: #380 Dark_Falcon

Setting up and running the literature table and finding speakers constitutes "organizing" in my eyes.

and why do you think O'Keefe set up and ran the literature table and found speakers for the event?

402 allegro  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:12:02pm

re: #396 Buck

Charles has no problem saying the Marcus Epstein and Taft Club means it was a White Nationalist Event. I am going to bow out of that. I still think it is JUST AS UNFAIR to call O'Keefe a Racist based on that, just as much as it would be to say that everyone who innocently attended was a racist.

How does one

innocently attend

an White Nationalist Event?

403 torrentprime  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:12:11pm

re: #396 Buck

Well, in absence of any evidence we should not accuse him

Yes, but "evidence I don't want to believe" (see also "global climate change," "evolution") doesn't fulfill your conditional.

404 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:12:24pm

re: #384 cliffster

I think you're not really seeing what you're saying. Like I said, I think you're better than the way your comments are coming across. Just let it go, if you feel like apologizing later, go for it.

Cliffster, I thank you for your concern & I believe it to be genuine. I see no reason to apologize. The Weatherman killed innocent people & I have a problem with that.

405 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:12:39pm

re: #302 brookly red

she is welcome to denounce the bombings if she so chooses.

Sounds a lot like the standard loaded question, "When did you stop beating your wife?"...you know better than that, red.

406 freetoken  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:12:40pm

re: #396 Buck


Charles has no problem saying the Marcus Epstein and Taft Club means it was a White Nationalist Event.

Not an accurate reading of what was written up top.

Charles' assertion is that the Robert Taft club is "far right", which is an accurate statement.

407 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:13:04pm

re: #402 allegro

an White Nationalist Event?

Marketing for your linen service?

408 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:13:32pm

re: #375 Racer X

It seems to me things have been getting j u s t a l i t t l e b i t testy around here lately. I think I may have a solution that will help keep things from getting out of hand.

LGF Etiquette:

When you feel like telling another poster to f%ck off and die, try this phrase instead: May the remainder of your life be filled with several minutes of auto-erotic pleasure.

When a poster is acting like an a$$hole, kindly point out that they are demonstrating anus like tendencies.

Instead of calling someone an idiot, kindly refer to them as being intellectually challenged.

I'm sure if we all think hard we could come up with other more pleasant ways to express our dissatisfaction with occasional offensive posts.

Thank you,
Racer X

Go fuck yourself.
;D

409 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:13:32pm

re: #387 jamesfirecat

So if you kill someone without the intent to kill, in fact while trying to take several precautions to prevent you from killing anyone, but while committing a felony its still homicide and not manslaughter?

You blew up a BUILDING
People inhabit BUILDINGS

That you sent a note prior (taking "precautions") does not mitigate the FACT that you blew up a BUILDING

I know you're not "defending" Ayers or his ilk
I know you introduced the 'constructive manslaughter" phrase that non of us A) knew or B) LIKED
THAT STATED,,, if you keep down this path I may change my opinion about you defending the act

410 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:13:35pm

It's amusing to see all the people here saying (hoping?) that Jimmy O'K. won't do time for this.

As I said downstairs, the one thing that is guaranteed to happen in this situation is that one of his kkklever little friends will get scared and roll over on him.

Bye-bye for a while, you creepy little Tim McVeigh lookalike!

411 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:13:57pm

re: #397 Stanley Sea

BIRTHER ALERT

I'm not a birther. For flip's sake. I was trying to make a point.

412 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:14:02pm

re: #402 allegro

one innocently attends a white nationalist event if the one decribing one has a vested interest in liking one.

... if that follows.

~~

They like him 'cuz for tribalist reasons, he made those damn lefties look bad. Once he did that he was subject to full support.

413 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:14:18pm

re: #400 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah that is what confuses me, without the unedited tapes we have no idea what the heck was going on.

As for Acorn, it's federal funding is minimal so it's not really a huge issue for me. They do some housing stuff and some other community stuff that I really can get behind.

The whole hate the Acorn thing has never been my bag...LOL

414 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:14:33pm

re: #357 jamesfirecat

It's ad hoc. What of Free as a bird guilty as hell? Thats an admission or confession. We can each find quotes to satisfy our conclusions.
In any case I have a bigger problem with his curriculum, of philosophy. He is teaching his hostility for our way of life. I have issue with that.

If the Federal Building in Oklahoma city had been empty, say on a Sunday, would we welcome Tim McVeigh as a Professor a few decades later? I can only hope not.

415 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:15:26pm

Hoping and praying this O'Keefe thing brings Breitbart down. The guy's a snake.

416 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:15:30pm

re: #408 Spare O'Lake

Go fuck yourself.
;D

No no no!

It's "enjoy a few moments of self-penetrating pleasure, won't you?"

C'mon, get with the program.

417 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:15:56pm

Also, I say it all the time, but I love the manufactured rabid hate of Ayers. How many of you people obsessed with him spent any time on it before the 'scandal' in 2008?

418 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:16:05pm

re: #405 talon_262

Sounds a lot like the standard loaded question, "When did you stop beating your wife?"...you know better than that, red.

I respect your opinion. Those people are still dead. I maintain that the Weathermen were wrong, & there is no excuse for them. IMO.

419 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:16:27pm

re: #404 brookly red

Cliffster, I thank you for your concern & I believe it to be genuine. I see no reason to apologize. The Weatherman killed innocent people & I have a problem with that.

So do I. But I feel you took ice's words out of context and then attacked her without good cause.

420 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:16:30pm

Why is it right wing to be a hater of other races?

Hitler was a lefty, not a righty.

I'm so confused by the 'popular' words running around.

421 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:16:46pm

re: #416 Racer X

No no no!

It's "enjoy a few moments of self-penetrating pleasure, won't you?"

C'mon, get with the program.

I think you've put your finger on something.

422 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:16:56pm

re: #417 windsagio

Also, I say it all the time, but I love the manufactured rabid hate of Ayers. How many of you people obsessed with him spent any time on it before the 'scandal' in 2008?

I doubt any of the ones obsessed with him now had even heard of him.

423 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:17:04pm

re: #369 brookly red

your authority to issue it.

I guess the other nights performance where you made a complete fool of yourself trying to claim that iceweasel was lying about being from New York really broke your brain. Tonight, you are making an even bigger fool of yourself, and demonstrating what a truly odious creep you are into the bargain. Well done, idiot.

424 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:17:48pm

re: #422 iceweasel

/well they're pretty old...

;)

425 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:18:03pm

re: #423 Jimmah

I guess the other nights performance where you made a complete fool of yourself trying to claim that iceweasel was lying about being from New York really broke your brain. Tonight, you are making an even bigger fool of yourself, and demonstrating what a truly odious creep you are into the bargain. Well done, idiot.

get a life.

426 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:18:07pm

re: #417 windsagio

Also, I say it all the time, but I love the manufactured rabid hate of Ayers. How many of you people obsessed with him spent any time on it before the 'scandal' in 2008?

I despise Bill Ayers. I had no idea who he was prior to 2008.

427 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:19:09pm

re: #422 iceweasel

I doubt any of the ones obsessed with him now had even heard of him.

Ayers was, is and always will be, a piece of shit.

428 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:19:33pm

re: #421 Spare O'Lake

I think you've put your finger on something.

429 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:19:37pm

re: #424 windsagio

/well they're pretty old...

;)

That's true. I thought a wormhole had opened and sucked us all back to June 2008, but I can easily believe that many of them don't know what year it is.

430 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:19:38pm

re: #408 Spare O'Lake

Go fuck yourself.
;D

I implore the gentleman poster to avail himself of the many silicone novelties available at his nearest purveyor of marital aids, and to put a suitable product to its intended use. :D

431 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:19:55pm

re: #421 Spare O'Lake

I think you've put your finger on something.

I think you're out of your depth, and that's as far as I'm going with this.

432 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:20:00pm

re: #346 cliffster

I can get behind that. I think brook red is better than that, and doesn't realize the weight of what he was saying. Everybody gets worked up on things sometimes.

I think that, by this stage of the game, red knows exactly what they're saying to ice and Jimmah...they're just poking the bear now, IMO.

433 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:20:09pm

re: #420 CarryOn

Why is it right wing to be a hater of other races?

Hitler was a lefty, not a righty.

I'm so confused by the 'popular' words running around.

What?

434 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:20:09pm

re: #414 Rightwingconspirator

It's ad hoc. What of Free as a bird guilty as hell? Thats an admission or confession. We can each find quotes to satisfy our conclusions.
In any case I have a bigger problem with his curriculum, of philosophy. He is teaching his hostility for our way of life. I have issue with that.

If the Federal Building in Oklahoma city had been empty, say on a Sunday, would we welcome Tim McVeigh as a Professor a few decades later? I can only hope not.

Its an admission but it doesn't tell us what crime he is admitting to.

Look I think I'm killing a lot of free time for all of us so let me restate where I stand/have come to stand.

I personally can not find it in me to hate Bill Ayers for what he did in the 60's.

I can find it in me to hate a racist for what he is doing hear and now.

This is probably because I am a weak kneed, limp wristed PC liberal.

Arguing over exactly what crime Ayers could have been charged with if he was ever charged is probably a no win game and we should all stop throwing our time into it....

435 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:20:25pm

re: #419 Dark_Falcon

Good stepping up there. You give good timely advice.

Brookly Red you did take her words way beyond her intent. You owe her an apology for that. Now we have taken the thread down a few notches for no good reason. Please consider backing off from there.

436 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:20:28pm

re: #420 CarryOn

Why is it right wing to be a hater of other races?

Hitler was a lefty, not a righty.

1) people from both sides can be haters of other races. It just so happens that the conference being discussed in this thread was a "righty" racist conference. Doesn't mean all racists are righties, just that the conference in question was run by righty racists.

2) Hitler was lefty on some economic issues, and righty on a whole host of social issues and a few economic ones. I think he was more right than left.

437 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:20:39pm

re: #402 allegro

an White Nationalist Event?

Not everyone can put a Race And Conservatism Debate At The Robert A. Taft Club as a White Nationalist Event. I certainly would not have known.

438 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:20:43pm

re: #432 talon_262

I think that, by this stage of the game, red knows exactly what they're saying to ice and Jimmah...they're just poking the bear now, IMO.

Red has known all along what it's been saying.

439 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:20:50pm

re: #375 Racer X

Instead of calling someone an idiot, kindly refer to them as being intellectually challenged.

Why? It's just a snottier sounding way of saying the same thing.

440 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:21:25pm

re: #426 Racer X

+ for honesty. Doesn't this concern you tho?

Going from nothing to rage for a guy whose crimes have been around forever... isn't that a bit... I dunno, artificial?

441 darthstar  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:21:29pm

re: #410 Cato the Elder

It's amusing to see all the people here saying (hoping?) that Jimmy O'K. won't do time for this.

As I said downstairs, the one thing that is guaranteed to happen in this situation is that one of his kkklever little friends will get scared and roll over on him.

Bye-bye for a while, you creepy little Tim McVeigh lookalike!

Yep...it's all up to the friend with the fewest connections. Atty General's kid won't roll, as he's got protection, but the other two will.

442 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:21:29pm

re: #420 CarryOn

Why is it right wing to be a hater of other races?

Hitler was a lefty, not a righty.

I'm so confused by the 'popular' words running around.

Where do you get off calling Hiter a "lefty"

I take offense as both a Liberal and as a southpaw!

For your information Hitler was conservative and he was right handed!

(Only half of the outrage on this post is manufactured)

443 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:21:30pm

re: #423 Jimmah

I guess the other nights performance where you made a complete fool of yourself trying to claim that iceweasel was lying about being from New York really broke your brain. Tonight, you are making an even bigger fool of yourself, and demonstrating what a truly odious creep you are into the bargain. Well done, idiot.

blah, blah, blah

444 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:22:03pm

re: #406 freetoken

Not an accurate reading of what was written up top.

Charles' assertion is that the Robert Taft club is "far right", which is an accurate statement.

I quote Charles #201 here:

Given the fact that the Taft Club was the organizer, and Marcus Epstein was apparently in charge of booking speakers, I honestly don't see why it's a stretch to call this a "white nationalist conference."

445 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:22:04pm

re: #420 CarryOn

Canard.

446 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:22:22pm

re: #429 iceweasel

That's true. I thought a wormhole had opened and sucked us all back to June 2008, but I can easily believe that many of them don't know what year it is.

RAPID DESCENDANTS THE WORMHOLE IS EMPTAAAAYY
THE CENTER OF KYLYSTY SURROUNDS MEEEEE

/cue insane metal

447 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:22:37pm

re: #417 windsagio

Count me as one who objected to his professorship before Obama ran for President. Years before. Alas I was not blogging here then. Uh, neither was CJ. I guess this goes back to the '90's for me. I happen to object to radical professorships. Left or right. Save the radicalism for coffeehouse diatribes or blogs.

448 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:22:41pm

re: #439 Jimmah

Why? It's just a snottier sounding way of saying the same thing.

Because as usual, the motherfucking civility police lack all decency.

449 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:23:11pm

re: #420 CarryOn

Why is it right wing to be a hater of other races?

Hitler was a lefty, not a righty.

I'm so confused by the 'popular' words running around.

Two puffs and pass man. Stop bogarting the J.

450 allegro  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:23:19pm

re: #437 Buck

Not everyone can put a Race And Conservatism Debate At The Robert A. Taft Club as a White Nationalist Event. I certainly would not have known.

So you often stumble "innocently" into events you know nothing about?

451 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:23:29pm

re: #419 Dark_Falcon

So do I. But I feel you took ice's words out of context and then attacked her without good cause.

If you feel I attacked her then perhaps I should reconsider... but the Weathermen's victims are still dead & I do not have a high tolerance for those who defend them. If that makes me a bad person somehow I what can I say.

Thank you for your concern.

452 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:23:30pm

re: #434 jamesfirecat

Agreed. Have a great Friday and weekend!

453 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:23:37pm

re: #445 Slumbering Behemoth

Canard.

For crap's sake, when you tell someone to duck, use their own language.

454 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:23:49pm

re: #450 allegro

So you often stumble "innocently" into events you know nothing about?

heh,,,, how the hell do you think I ended up MARRIED !!!

455 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:23:54pm

re: #440 windsagio

+ for honesty. Doesn't this concern you tho?

Going from nothing to rage for a guy whose crimes have been around forever... isn't that a bit... I dunno, artificial?

I'm not seeing rage.

However, Ayers is not relevant to the topic of this thread.

456 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:23:57pm

re: #429 iceweasel

That's true. I thought a wormhole had opened and sucked us all back to June 2008, but I can easily believe that many of them don't know what year it is.

I almost wish I could go back to that month armed with what I know know and make some changes. Sadly, that can't be done, so I'll just play some Eddie Money instead:

457 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:24:43pm

re: #447 Rightwingconspirator

Count me as one who objected to his professorship before Obama ran for President. Years before. Alas I was not blogging here then. Uh, neither was CJ. I guess this goes back to the '90's for me. I happen to object to radical professorships. Left or right. Save the radicalism for coffeehouse diatribes or blogs.


What if they're radical like Tony Hawk's 900 is radical?

I'm reclaiming the word "radical" and applying to what it should be applied to: guys in neon lycra outfits who do acrobatics on bicycles and skateboards.

458 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:24:54pm

re: #454 sattv4u2

heh,,, how the hell do you think I ended up MARRIED !!!

No I think that's better describes how you gave your wife an orgasm.

459 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:25:03pm

re: #448 iceweasel

Because as usual, the motherfucking civility police lack all decency.

Excuse me?

460 allegro  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:25:23pm

re: #454 sattv4u2

heh,,, how the hell do you think I ended up MARRIED !!!

spew

461 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:25:27pm

re: #448 iceweasel

Because as usual, the motherfucking civility police lack all decency.

RacerX was making a funny, not joining the motherfucking civility police force.

462 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:26:03pm

re: #461 Slumbering Behemoth

RacerX was making a funny, not joining the motherfucking civility police force.

Yeah, I don't mean him.

463 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:26:15pm

re: #455 Racer X

I think its relevant in the sense that people (no not everyone) instinctively attack Ayers, for the same reason they instinctively defend O'keefe. Its more about which side they are(were) on than the case at hand.

There are strong parallels between the 2.

464 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:26:21pm

re: #450 allegro

So you often stumble "innocently" into events you know nothing about?

I would admit that, before today, I would not think a Taft club debate as a "White Nationalist event". I might find out when I got there, but by then it would be too late.... I would already be a White Nationalist racist.

465 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:26:32pm

re: #420 CarryOn

So we have the Timothy Newark / Jonah Goldberg contention again. That's been quite thoroughly refuted, you know.

466 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:26:36pm

re: #460 allegro

spew

yer welcome!

467 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:26:47pm

re: #459 Racer X

Excuse me?

Sorry-- not talking about you. Should have worded that better. I'm pissed off at the moment. Apologies.

468 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:26:54pm

re: #437 Buck

Not everyone can put a Race And Conservatism Debate At The Robert A. Taft Club as a White Nationalist Event. I certainly would not have known.

I'm so glad you continue to defend this stuff. Honestly providing cover for this racist stain, not even trying to hide it. "I see your true colors...shining through..."

469 cliffster  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:26:54pm

Ugh, hostility abounds. Off I go to play with my kids before beddie-bye. Might be back later. Be cool....

470 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:27:20pm

re: #468 WindUpBird

Thats why you love him?

471 tradewind  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:27:21pm

re: #458 jamesfirecat
Gave? Did you actually say gave?? ....back to headbanging.....

472 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:27:22pm

re: #425 brookly red

get a life.

Oh I've got a life buddy. Sadly, your 'life' seems to consist of seething about iceweasel and dreaming up idiotic little schemes and ploys to annoy her on LGF, each one more laughable than the last. Except this time it isn't funny. By accusing someone on a whim of supporting terrorism you proved yourself to be a disgusting piece of shit.

Keep going with your trolling - I'm happy to make use of the opportunity to tell you what you are.

473 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:28:04pm

re: #468 WindUpBird

I'm so glad you continue to defend this stuff. Honestly providing cover for this racist stain, not even trying to hide it. "I see your true colors...shining through..."

You got me....

474 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:28:06pm

re: #472 Jimmah

you know, I wonder why she gets that kind of crap; I'm much more obnoxious >>


/jealous.

475 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:28:15pm

re: #468 WindUpBird

I'm so glad you continue to defend this stuff. Honestly providing cover for this racist stain, not even trying to hide it. "I see your true colors...shining through..."

I know Cyndi Lauper, and you're no Cyndi Lauper...

476 freetoken  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:28:32pm

re: #444 Buck

And that description (as written by Charles) is accurate, as far as I can tell.

That is why I'm questioning why you're questioning it.

(My first reference was to the original key post description.)

477 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:28:36pm

re: #451 brookly red

If you feel I attacked her then perhaps I should reconsider... but the Weathermen's victims are still dead & I do not have a high tolerance for those who defend them. If that makes me a bad person somehow I what can I say.

Thank you for your concern.

Stand your ground.

478 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:28:55pm

re: #472 Jimmah

Oh I've got a life buddy. Sadly, your 'life' seems to consist of seething about iceweasel and dreaming up idiotic little schemes and ploys to annoy her on LGF, each one more laughable than the last. Except this time it isn't funny. By accusing someone on a whim of supporting terrorism you proved yourself to be a disgusting piece of shit.

Keep going with your trolling - I'm happy to make use of the opportunity to tell you what you are.

you assume that I care? please jimmy take you own advice, K?

479 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:29:06pm

re: #451 brookly red

If you feel I attacked her then perhaps I should reconsider... but the Weathermen's victims are still dead & I do not have a high tolerance for those who defend them. If that makes me a bad person somehow I what can I say.

Thank you for your concern.

And once again, I do not defend the Weathermen's actions, I think they were deplorable, but at the current moment I can not summon up the rage to do anything more than condemn the actions rather than holding it against the people who committed them.

This is most likely because of my intellectual blinders of being able to feel personally connected to those actions. Probably because I don't know anyone who got hurt/killed or know anyone who knows anyone who got hurt/killed and because I'm a limp wristed weak kneed revolving door liberal.....

480 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:29:11pm

re: #469 cliffster

Ugh, hostility abounds. Off I go to play with my kids before beddie-bye. Might be back later. Be cool...

Have a calming tea first. Wouldn't want you to holler out a "STFU!" when one of the wee ones asks you why the sky is blue or something.
/not that you ever would

481 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:29:41pm

re: #287 brookly red

That was the most unfair question I have seen posed here. Smells of picking a fight, a bad idea here. Takes away from sensible discussion.

482 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:29:47pm

re: #474 windsagio

you know, I wonder why she gets that kind of crap; I'm much more obnoxious >>

/jealous.

I updinged you but you're not obnoxious at all. :)

483 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:30:18pm

re: #471 tradewind

Gave? Did you actually say gave?? ...back to headbanging...

Sorry the fact that I'm male is showing, what's the proper adjective/relationship I should have used?

484 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:30:31pm

re: #482 iceweasel

I dunno lady, the other night I said (in essence) that LGF was their wife and they should stop beating it.

thats pretty awful :P

485 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:30:38pm

re: #463 windsagio

I think its relevant in the sense that people (no not everyone) instinctively attack Ayers, for the same reason they instinctively defend O'keefe. Its more about which side they are(were) on than the case at hand.

There are strong parallels between the 2.

The Ayers thing is now an undead anti-Obama meme. Like most zombies, it keeps trying to claw its way inside the farmhouse. I expect all the usual zombies will be out of their graves and shambling around during the 2012 campaign. We'll get all the same footage of Wright going "Goddamn America!", andwe'll pretend to be SHOCKED. SHOCKED I TELLS YOU

486 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:32:24pm

By the way, iceweasel, I saw yesterday in one of his updates our friend Weigel said about the event in question, "I was also there, as a reporter,..." [paraphrased, emphasis added].

I had much appreciation for that, as you can imagine.

487 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:32:28pm

re: #476 freetoken

And that description (as written by Charles) is accurate, as far as I can tell.

That is why I'm questioning why you're questioning it.

(My first reference was to the original key post description.)

I am saying that I did not know that the Robert Taft Club was a White Nationalist organization, until today. I am saying that there might be others who also would not think that attending a Robert Taft Club event would paint them as a white nationalist.

Is that clear?

488 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:32:47pm

re: #477 Spare O'Lake

Stand your ground.

Thank you. I will. The Weathermen are murderers, that is all.

489 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:34:17pm

re: #487 Buck

I am saying that I did not know that the Robert Taft Club was a White Nationalist organization, until today. I am saying that there might be others who also would not think that attending a Robert Taft Club event would paint them as a white nationalist.

Is that clear?

It's still an obtuse position to take, because it is clear that O'Keefe knew what the event was about.

490 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:34:19pm

re: #472 Jimmah

Oh I've got a life buddy. Sadly, your 'life' seems to consist of seething about iceweasel and dreaming up idiotic little schemes and ploys to annoy her on LGF, each one more laughable than the last. Except this time it isn't funny. By accusing someone on a whim of supporting terrorism you proved yourself to be a disgusting piece of shit.

Keep going with your trolling - I'm happy to make use of the opportunity to tell you what you are.

Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Though the threads are swollen
Butthurt keeps the wingnuts trollin'
Rawhide!
Rain and wind and weather
Hell-bent for leather
Wishin' the truth was by their side.
All the things they're missin',
Good vittles, love, and kissin',
Ain't waiting at the end of their ride

491 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:34:58pm

re: #489 wrenchwench

It's still an obtuse position to take, because it is clear that O'Keefe knew what the event was about.

OK, how is that clear that O'Keefe knew it was a white nationalist event?

492 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:35:14pm

re: #287 brookly red

so you approve of terrorist bombings? I do believe it is a yes or no question.


Wow, I read up and found this, brookly. And it's really quite a doozie!

I'm just going to explain very patiently to you that this is really a foolish and childish thing to say to someone, and even the people who are ideologically often in agreement with you are pretty put off by your behavior.

493 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:35:28pm

re: #443 Spare O'Lake

blah, blah, blah


You just show how craven you are by supporting and encouraging this idiotic and disgusting behaviour. As if we didn't already know. Just a shit stirring, anklebiting wanker, aren't you Spare?

494 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:35:59pm

re: #475 Decatur Deb

I know Cyndi Lauper, and you're no Cyndi Lauper...


There's no way I could ever pull off her outfits, it's true. ;_;

495 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:36:11pm

re: #491 Buck

OK, how is that clear that O'Keefe knew it was a white nationalist event?

You didn't read any of the links, did you?

496 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:36:29pm

re: #479 jamesfirecat

And once again, I do not defend the Weathermen's actions, I think they were deplorable, but at the current moment I can not summon up the rage to do anything more than condemn the actions rather than holding it against the people who committed them.

This is most likely because of my intellectual blinders of being able to feel personally connected to those actions. Probably because I don't know anyone who got hurt/killed or know anyone who knows anyone who got hurt/killed and because I'm a limp wristed weak kneed revolving door liberal...

James, I do not always agree with you but I will never accuse you of letting your ego get in the way. Do not in any way feel "limp wristed" for speaking the truth as you see it.

497 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:36:44pm

re: #479 jamesfirecat

And once again, I do not defend the Weathermen's actions, I think they were deplorable, but at the current moment I can not summon up the rage to do anything more than condemn the actions rather than holding it against the people who committed them.

This is most likely because of my intellectual blinders of being able to feel personally connected to those actions. Probably because I don't know anyone who got hurt/killed or know anyone who knows anyone who got hurt/killed and because I'm a limp wristed weak kneed revolving door liberal...

Calling out a self-admitted domestic terrorist is perfectly fine with me.

498 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:36:51pm

re: #418 brookly red

I respect your opinion. Those people are still dead. I maintain that the Weathermen were wrong, & there is no excuse for them. IMO.

And I agree with this statement; Ayers was an irredeemable terrorist and, although he's rehabbed his public image over the past few years, is still just as irredeemable today.

But I also agree with Dark_Falcon, in regards to your comments to ice:

re: #419 Dark_Falcon

So do I. But I feel you took ice's words out of context and then attacked her without good cause.

499 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:38:10pm

re: #477 Spare O'Lake

Stand your ground.


Yes, he should totally stand his ground. When you lie (as brookly did when he characterized iceweasel as supporting terror) the way to do it is to make sure you never admit the lie. That shows weakness!

500 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:38:46pm

re: #495 wrenchwench

You didn't read any of the links, did you?

I read all of them. Pretend that I am a 10 y/o. Can you show me where you can see for sure that O'Keefe knew, in advance to being there, is was a white nationalist event?

501 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:38:48pm

re: #490 iceweasel

Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Though the threads are swollen
Butthurt keeps the wingnuts trollin'
Rawhide!
Rain and wind and weather
Hell-bent for leather
Wishin' the truth was by their side.
All the things they're missin',
Good vittles, love, and kissin',
Ain't waiting at the end of their ride


[Video]

I wish I could give you two updings:

! for the funny parody, and another for the Blues Brothers vid. It's a classic Chicago movie.

502 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:39:17pm

re: #472 Jimmah

Oh I've got a life buddy. Sadly, your 'life' seems to consist of seething about iceweasel and dreaming up idiotic little schemes and ploys to annoy her on LGF, each one more laughable than the last. Except this time it isn't funny. By accusing someone on a whim of supporting terrorism you proved yourself to be a disgusting piece of shit.

Keep going with your trolling - I'm happy to make use of the opportunity to tell you what you are.

You are a miserable vindictive creep.

503 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:39:51pm

re: #498 talon_262

Thank you, Talon.

504 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:40:06pm

re: #496 brookly red

James, I do not always agree with you but I will never accuse you of letting your ego get in the way. Do not in any way feel "limp wristed" for speaking the truth as you see it.

Glad that we settle that dispute on friendly terms Red.

505 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:40:16pm

Ayers is the new Chappaquiddick. The warm fuzzy feeling one gets from going after Ted Kennedy for Chappaquiddick is gone, now that he's deceased. There must be a new albatross!

506 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:40:37pm
507 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:41:36pm

re: #499 WindUpBird

Yes, he should totally stand his ground. When you lie (as brookly did when he characterized iceweasel as supporting terror) the way to do it is to make sure you never admit the lie. That shows weakness!

I denounce the Weathermen as murderers... I am waiting for others to do so.

508 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:42:43pm

re: #502 Spare O'Lake

You are a miserable vindictive creep.


haha, I saw brookly try ing to claim Ice didn't know anything about Manhattan. It was a great little pissing match, but brookly was totally in the wrong. He got made a fool of.

And if you can't understand why someone would be upset at a poster who characterizes them as supporting terror...then man I just don't know anymore!

509 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:43:53pm

re: #500 Buck

I read all of them. Pretend that I am a 10 y/o. Can you show me where you can see for sure that O'Keefe knew, in advance to being there, is was a white nationalist event?

Here you go. This is not from Isis, this is from Breitbart. O'Keefe told him this:

He attended the event with many of his Leadership Institute co-workers since it was right across the street from their building in Arlington, Va., and it was organized by other LI associates.

It was organized by associates of his, and he went with them. If he still didn't know what it was about, he's more obtuse than you have pretended to be here.

510 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:44:43pm

re: #507 brookly red

I denounce the Weathermen as murderers... I am waiting for others to do so.


I denounce them as megasatanichunterkiller robots from the far future with robotic exoskeletons and glowing eyes who killed Sarah Connor and Jesus and THEY'RE COMING FOR YOU NEXT.

The only way to respond to you is humor. You're simply a joke. Not to be taken seriously. There is simply no other appropriate response.

511 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:45:11pm

By the way, when is Carry On gonna get back hear and explain how exactly Hitler was a "lefty" ?

512 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:45:40pm

re: #508 WindUpBird

haha, I saw brookly try ing to claim Ice didn't know anything about Manhattan. It was a great little pissing match, but brookly was totally in the wrong. He got made a fool of.

And if you can't understand why someone would be upset at a poster who characterizes them as supporting terror...then man I just don't know anymore!

Asshat brookly decided to play that game again last night too, asking me about a certain spanish seafood place on w23rd.
I told it if I wanted spanish food I'd go to loisaida or spanish harlem, and i'd be going elsewhere for lobster.
Of course, being a fucking bridge and tunnel tool, brookly red appears to think there is only about 3 restaurants in nyc....
Hence the lingering sting of butthurt. :)

513 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:46:07pm

re: #510 WindUpBird

pity's an option too :p

Imagine being that deeply in denial that you have to act that way.

514 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:46:15pm

re: #511 jamesfirecat

By the way, when is Carry On gonna get back hear and explain how exactly Hitler was a "lefty" ?

CarryOn is silly. How many dings must a man be downdinged, before you can call him a man? :D

515 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:46:19pm

re: #508 WindUpBird

haha, I saw brookly try ing to claim Ice didn't know anything about Manhattan. It was a great little pissing match, but brookly was totally in the wrong. He got made a fool of.

And if you can't understand why someone would be upset at a poster who characterizes them as supporting terror...then man I just don't know anymore!

actually I recommended a restaurant...

516 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:46:42pm

re: #507 brookly red

And i'm still waiting for you to fuck off.
We can't always get what we want.

517 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:47:03pm

re: #513 windsagio

pity's an option too :p

Imagine being that deeply in denial that you have to act that way.

I can't really do pity, it's not my style. Everything is grist for my comedy innards.

518 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:47:04pm

re: #512 iceweasel

Asshat brookly decided to play that game again last night too, asking me about a certain spanish seafood place on w23rd.
I told it if I wanted spanish food I'd go to loisaida or spanish harlem, and i'd be going elsewhere for lobster.
Of course, being a fucking bridge and tunnel tool, brookly red appears to think there is only about 3 restaurants in nyc...
Hence the lingering sting of butthurt. :)

you really do take this personally huh?

519 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:48:28pm

re: #502 Spare O'Lake

You are a miserable vindictive creep.

Check out the projection on Spare O Lake.

Spare, just to help you see the world the way sane, normal people do for a moment : someone who defends his wife against a completely idiotic and utterly offensive smear that she supports terrorism and gets a little angry in the process is not a 'miserable, vindictive creep'. Someone who hangs around waiting for someone to attack iceweasel so that he can join in, no matter how stupid and disgusting the attack is, however, IS. And that's YOU.

520 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:48:41pm

re: #516 iceweasel

but what do you need?

/sorry :p

521 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:48:57pm

re: #509 wrenchwench

It was organized by associates of his, and he went with them. If he still didn't know what it was about, he's more obtuse than you have pretended to be here.

So now Leadership Institute is White Nationalist too? See I didn't know that either...

or maybe someone at the Leadership Institute was also a member of the Robert Taft Club. And maybe O'Keefe thought that it was a debate on Race and Conservatism. And some other people, where he worked knew it was more.

522 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:49:14pm

re: #518 brookly red

Yes, oddly enough, being a new yorker who lost someone on 9-11 I do find it incredibly offensive that a miserable little shit like you would accuse me of supporting terrorists bombing buildings.

What a shock.
Now fuck off back under the bridge, troll.

523 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:49:15pm

re: #516 iceweasel

And i'm still waiting for you to fuck off.
We can't always get what we want.

sigh... oh the party of tolerance.

524 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:50:03pm

re: #522 iceweasel

Yes, oddly enough, being a new yorker who lost someone on 9-11 I do find it incredibly offensive that a miserable little shit like you would accuse me of supporting terrorists bombing buildings.

What a shock.
Now fuck off back under the bridge, troll.

so Ayers was wrong for murdering people?

525 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:50:40pm

re: #515 brookly red

actually I recommended a restaurant...

I remember an exchange before that. It's not important, except to show that there's some history where yo were becoming increasingly petty.

Either way, the line of discussion about ice supporting terrorism. It's a dead end. It makes you look like a silly silly child. And running around goign AYERS AYERS AYERS, that's the thing a little yapping dog does. A little dog does that. Nobody supports the weathermen, nobody supports murder, and it's irrelevant to this thread.

526 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:51:41pm

re: #326 Rightwingconspirator

No, there are people who blow up buildings for a living, and there are people who do so as part of just wars against evil. The distinction is very necessary.

527 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:51:57pm

re: #524 brookly red

You were, and always have been, both wrong and morally bankrupt for accusing me of saying otherwise.

Never address me again.

528 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:52:35pm

re: #527 iceweasel

You were, and always have been, both wrong and morally bankrupt for accusing me of saying otherwise.

Never address me again.

Police Officer Waverly L. Brown

Sergeant Brian V. McDonnell

Sergeant Edward J. O’Grady Jr.

still dead...

529 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:52:36pm

re: #518 brookly red

you really do take this personally huh?


I take it personally when someone accuses me of supprting terrorism.

Because I'm an adult.

530 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:52:54pm

re: #523 brookly red

sigh... oh the party of tolerance.

You need to apologise to iceweasel for suggesting that she supports terrorism.

531 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:52:55pm

re: #526 Thanos

No, there are people who blow up buildings for a living, and there are people who do so as part of just wars against evil. The distinction is very necessary.

Yeah, what he said remember the Simpson's episode with the islamic guy in building demolitions?

532 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:54:13pm

re: #521 Buck

So now Leadership Institute is White Nationalist too? See I didn't know that either...

or maybe someone at the Leadership Institute was also a member of the Robert Taft Club. And maybe O'Keefe thought that it was a debate on Race and Conservatism. And some other people, where he worked knew it was more.

And if you look at it in conjunction with the other things that O'Keefe has been involved with, like calling planned parenthood about aborting black fetuses, like the "Acorn sting", like the bake sale on campus, do you still think he's not really up on issues of race? That he was ignorant of who Jared Taylor is?

How much of your own credibility are you willing to expend to defend this guy?

533 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:54:25pm

re: #524 brookly red

so Ayers was wrong for murdering people?

Don't go off the cliff on this, red...you may not personally care for ice and Jimmah, but don't twist this to play "gotcha" games with them, because you'd be wrong in this instance. Get rational, not personal...

534 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:54:30pm

re: #528 brookly red

Police Officer Waverly L. Brown

Sergeant Brian V. McDonnell

Sergeant Edward J. O’Grady Jr.

still dead...

I'm predicting a time-out in your future. I'm betting myself one beer.

535 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:55:48pm

re: #528 brookly red

You are a miserable, craven, despicable liar.

Never address me again.

536 allegro  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:56:04pm

re: #532 wrenchwench

How much of your own credibility are you willing to expend to defend this guy?

Too late. It's done been spent.

537 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:57:20pm

re: #536 allegro

Too late. It's done been spent.

THE MOONSHINE JUG'S DRY, PAW

538 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:57:24pm

re: #534 WindUpBird

If I were him I'd give myself a timeout. This will only end in tears.

539 allegro  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:57:50pm

re: #537 WindUpBird

LOL!

540 brookly red  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:58:03pm

re: #534 WindUpBird

I'm predicting a time-out in your future. I'm betting myself one beer.

actually a time out is a good idea...

I get overly emotional about the murders of my peeps...

so with that a good night to all.

541 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:59:08pm

How would someone innocently go to a White Nationalist event?

[Link: bigjournalism.com...]

The forum was located at a Georgetown University building (that’s right, a 21-year-old man attended an event on a college campus).

The forum had as one of its three speakers a controversial figure, Jared Taylor, with a track record of making racist statements. He was being debated by two other people including Mr. Martin (taking issue with the racist figure).

Mr. Taylor has also appeared with Phil Donohue, Queen Latifa and Paula Zahn on their TV shows to debate race.

Are the audience members of the Donohue show racist for sitting and watching that debate?

542 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 4:59:20pm

re: #519 Jimmah

Check out the projection on Spare O Lake.

Spare, just to help you see the world the way sane, normal people do for a moment : someone who defends his wife against a completely idiotic and utterly offensive smear that she supports terrorism and gets a little angry in the process is not a 'miserable, vindictive creep'. Someone who hangs around waiting for someone to attack iceweasel so that he can join in, no matter how stupid and disgusting the attack is, however, IS. And that's YOU.

I didn't attack your dear wife. I supported someone who was being savaged

543 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:00:07pm

re: #542 Spare O'Lake

I didn't attack your dear wife. I supported someone who was being savaged for good reason

Fixt.

544 Buck  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:00:12pm

Going driving with my daughter.... teaching her to drive.

Not going to be able to respond.

545 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:00:23pm

re: #535 iceweasel

You are a miserable, craven, despicable liar.

Never address me again.

And you don't need to play the same childish game with red like LVQ did with Walter...it looks foolish and makes you come off as a drama queen.

If you're gonna ignore someone, just say nothing to them...don't give them the satisfaction of knowing they get under your skin.

To red: the game's over...give it up and act like an adult.

546 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:01:11pm

re: #540 brookly red

I hope you see the error of your ways, brookly. Come back when you do. Still, thank you for backing off. You probably just saved your account.

547 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:01:28pm

re: #540 brookly red

actually a time out is a good idea...

I get overly emotional about the murders of my peeps...

so with that a good night to all.

Oh, grow up...

548 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:01:31pm

re: #540 brookly red

Fuck off back under your bridge, troll.

You are a miserable, craven, despicable liar who has falsely accused me of supporting terrorist attacks.
Never speak to me again.

549 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:02:09pm

re: #545 talon_262

It owes me an apology.

550 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:02:10pm

re: #541 Buck

How would someone innocently go to a White Nationalist event?

[Link: bigjournalism.com...]

O'Keefe didn't go to the Donohue show. That quote is from the same link that quotes O'Keefe saying he went with his coworkers who organized the event.

I'm done with you.

551 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:02:21pm

re: #547 talon_262

that was a very 'flouncey' way to exit a thread, I gotta say.

552 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:03:34pm

re: #540 brookly red

actually a time out is a good idea...

I get overly emotional about the murders of my peeps...

so with that a good night to all.

We all get angry about the 'murder of our peeps' . We also get angry when we who have actually had people close to us die and suffer at the hands of terrorists get called supporters of terrorism by odious trolls like yourself for NO REASON WHATSOEVER.

Back to your grief hole in sunny brooklyn with you, idiot. I'll be waiting to see your apology to iceweasel when you return. It's the only thing I'll be talking to you about from now on, in fact, until she gets it.

553 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:04:35pm

re: #542 Spare O'Lake

I didn't attack your dear wife. I supported someone who was being savaged

Internet savages!

he was being called out for saying something inexcusable. He doubled down and kept going. He wanted the fight, he got it. It's internet Fight Club, one decides their own level of involvement.

Now, I don't actually think brookly REALLY believed that, I think his rhetorical nonsense sort of went off the cliff, and he wanted to save face. I'm sort of an optimist, I really have a hard time believing he was sincere. I think he just lost the argument but kept playing, for ego's sake. which is fine, i've done that before. But it was pretty nasty what he said, and you can support him WHILE ALSO acknowledging that what he said was stupid and not true.

554 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:05:49pm

re: #549 iceweasel

It owes me an apology.

Certainly not disputing that, ice, but you know what I'm trying to say.

555 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:06:35pm

re: #545 talon_262

And you don't need to play the same childish game with red like LVQ did with Walter...it looks foolish and makes you come off as a drama queen.

If you're gonna ignore someone, just say nothing to them...don't give them the satisfaction of knowing they get under your skin.

THREAD MONITOR ATTEMPT FAIL

Crap. Responding to being accused of supporting terrorism with a degree of anger is normal, not some 'childish game'.

556 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:08:29pm

re: #550 wrenchwench

O'Keefe didn't go to the Donohue show. That quote is from the same link that quotes O'Keefe saying he went with his coworkers who organized the event.

I'm done with you.

The dude's politics are waaay out of the mainstream, I tangled with him a while ago, and came to the same conclusion. He's too polite for one of the harsher right wing blogs, but his politics are very much in line with them.

557 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:08:36pm

re: #554 talon_262

Certainly not disputing that, ice, but you know what I'm trying to say.

Yes. And I have asked the liar in question to never address me again. Should he continue to do so-- and it's not to apologise and retract -- I will continue to repost what I just said to him.

I realise it makes for boring reading, but the liar has the option of not addressing me again.

558 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:09:04pm

re: #553 WindUpBird

Internet savages!

he was being called out for saying something inexcusable. He doubled down and kept going. He wanted the fight, he got it. It's internet Fight Club, one decides their own level of involvement.

Now, I don't actually think brookly REALLY believed that, I think his rhetorical nonsense sort of went off the cliff, and he wanted to save face. I'm sort of an optimist, I really have a hard time believing he was sincere. I think he just lost the argument but kept playing, for ego's sake. which is fine, i've done that before. But it was pretty nasty what he said, and you can support him WHILE ALSO acknowledging that what he said was stupid and not true.

Well, in trying to save face he ended up losing alot more face. Sometimes you need to accept that you are wrong and back off. Anything else is just making things worse.

559 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:09:14pm

re: #532 wrenchwench

And if you look at it in conjunction with the other things that O'Keefe has been involved with, like calling planned parenthood about aborting black fetuses, like the "Acorn sting", like the bake sale on campus, do you still think he's not really up on issues of race? That he was ignorant of who Jared Taylor is?

How much of your own credibility are you willing to expend to defend this guy?

Uhh....He was calling planned parenthood trying to prove that they WANTED to abort BLACK babies. NOT because he is a RACIST, but because he was trying to wake the world up to what that foundation was actually founded upon...which IS aborting BLACK babies.
When are you people going to start being intellectually honest about these things???

560 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:09:29pm

re: #542 Spare O'Lake

I didn't attack your dear wife. I supported someone who was being savaged

By encouraging him in his attack. Right.

561 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:10:08pm

re: #559 CarryOn

oh c'mon, thats blatant even for you.


Time to take off the mask!

562 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:10:18pm

re: #558 Dark_Falcon

Well, in trying to save face he ended up losing alot more face. Sometimes you need to accept that you are wrong and back off. Anything else is just making things worse.

it's hard though! It burns when you have to back down. :D

563 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:10:21pm

re: #559 CarryOn

Uhh...He was calling planned parenthood trying to prove that they WANTED to abort BLACK babies. NOT because he is a RACIST, but because he was trying to wake the world up to what that foundation was actually founded upon...which IS aborting BLACK babies.
When are you people going to start being intellectually honest about these things???

Can you prove you were being intellectually honest when you said that Hitler was a "lefty" I'm still waiting for you to back that one up....

564 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:11:07pm

re: #558 Dark_Falcon

Well, in trying to save face he ended up losing alot more face. Sometimes you need to accept that you are wrong and back off. Anything else is just making things worse.

Look, the liar got exactly what it wanted from the beginning: the entire thread became focused on Ayers, and the liar had the additional benefit of taking a slap at me which the liar has been aching to do (and desperately trying to do) for the last two days, as you know.

565 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:11:11pm

re: #560 Jimmah

By encouraging him in his attack. Right.

And as windsagio pointed out earlier, if he was being 'savaged', it was for good reason.

566 CarryOn  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:12:04pm

re: #557 iceweasel

You are negative and hateful. If you don't want to be addressed and you really mean that, you would not address us. You are a fool and you are a jerk. If you are "done" with people you disagree with...then how about Stopping?
Making comments about people that you are "done with" while knowing full well that we will read them is disingenuous and absurd. Grow up.

567 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:12:12pm

re: #559 CarryOn

Uhh...He was calling planned parenthood trying to prove that they WANTED to abort BLACK babies. NOT because he is a RACIST, but because he was trying to wake the world up to what that foundation was actually founded upon...which IS aborting BLACK babies.
When are you people going to start being intellectually honest about these things???

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha DAMN you're a live one. Tell me another one! The gold standard? Chemtrails? Albino alligators? Remote viewing? Got any wisdom to impart on those subjects?

568 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:12:53pm

re: #559 CarryOn

Uhh...He was calling planned parenthood trying to prove that they WANTED to abort BLACK babies. NOT because he is a RACIST, but because he was trying to wake the world up to what that foundation was actually founded upon...which IS aborting BLACK babies.
When are you people going to start being intellectually honest about these things???

The guy is fixated on race. You wouldn't know intellectual honesty if it bit you in the baggage.

569 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:13:11pm

re: #566 CarryOn

Carryon, mad that his trolling isn't taking decides to go after someone thats already upset.

good show!

570 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:13:26pm

re: #563 jamesfirecat

Can you prove you were being intellectually honest when you said that Hitler was a "lefty" I'm still waiting for you to back that one up...


Dude, do NOT EVEN BOTHER. he's gone full Alex Jones on us. Just lean back in your La-Z-Boy and watch the fun with a beer in hand.

571 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:13:36pm

re: #555 Jimmah

THREAD MONITOR ATTEMPT FAIL

Crap. Responding to being accused of supporting terrorism with a degree of anger is normal, not some 'childish game'.

Oh, come off it, Jimmah...you saw what I was replying to ice about (the form letter-style "don't address me" post to red, like LVQ was doing to Bagua (and Walter too, IIRC)). That just comes off as childish and petty to me, hence why I advised her to just ignore red if that's what she was going to do anyway.

As far as the stuff that red was saying to ice, I agree that ice has a legitimate reason to be pissed at red...I wasn't saying anything to the contrary to ice about that.

572 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:13:41pm

re: #553 WindUpBird

he was being called out for saying something inexcusable. He doubled down and kept going.

Yep. He was trying to spike a point, and ended up saying some ridiculous and offensive things. He owes an apology not just to ice, but to everyone who was reading this thread when it got dragged into the mud. Jimmah and ice were right to be angry

That said, I think we'd all be better off if we let this go, at least as long as brooklyn is out on break.

573 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:14:10pm

re: #561 windsagio

oh c'mon, thats blatant even for you.

Time to take off the mask!

We know it's a troll.
Interestingly, the troll just downdinged me for this comment, although we haven't even interacted in this thread.
iceweasel hate is a common burden of trolls and sockpuppets here.

574 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:14:40pm

Stop the squabbling now, or I'll be giving timeouts. I'm getting REALLY tired of asking this.

575 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:14:50pm

re: #566 CarryOn

I am getting thoroughly sick of these constant troll attacks on iceweasel. Its stupid, and the only thing is proves is that the trolls have a problem with assertive woman.

576 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:15:08pm

re: #566 CarryOn

Hello, troll. Not getting enough of a beating from others yet?

577 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:15:22pm

re: #566 CarryOn

Oh honey. Focus on me! Focus on the big birdie! THERE ya go. Let's talk about something neat! LIKE TIME TRAVEl. Do you believe in time travel? ;D

578 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:16:08pm

re: #574 Charles

Stop the squabbling now, or I'll be giving timeouts. I'm getting REALLY tired of asking this.

Agreed.

Sure happens a lot lately.

579 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:16:10pm

re: #577 WindUpBird

THE WAVE RIDER!

580 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:16:49pm

re: #572 LotharBot

I've moved on to the highly amusing Roger Dean-like hallucinogenic vistas inside CarryOn's head. Seriously, he's got like dragons and fire-breathing apes and flying toasters in there.

581 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:17:17pm

re: #578 Racer X

The culture is changing, and people don't like it, so they're ramping up the hostility.

Its hard to just take it for the sake of peace sometimes >>

582 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:18:48pm

re: #570 WindUpBird

Dude, do NOT EVEN BOTHER. he's gone full Alex Jones on us. Just lean back in your La-Z-Boy and watch the fun with a beer in hand.

I don't drink.

I also don't smoke.

I'm one of those "nothing in my pockets could you spare a dollar" liberals, having an addictive habit is too rich for my blood, I don't even order out for Pizza I just bring more home with me from the Caff since as a college student that's part of the room and board my parents pay for.... at least until those student loans come due.....

583 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:19:39pm

re: #577 WindUpBird

Oh honey. Focus on me! Focus on the big birdie! THERE ya go. Let's talk about something neat! LIKE TIME TRAVEl. Do you believe in time travel? ;D

Only into the future past the point that you've invented your time travel machine.

584 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:19:50pm

re: #582 jamesfirecat

"Spare any change?"

"Change comes from within."

585 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:20:06pm

re: #574 Charles

Stop the squabbling now, or I'll be giving timeouts. I'm getting REALLY tired of asking this.

Glad you're here...

586 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:20:10pm

re: #580 WindUpBird

I've moved on to the highly amusing Roger Dean-like hallucinogenic vistas inside CarryOn's head. Seriously, he's got like dragons and fire-breathing apes and flying toasters in there.

So, shall we make a D&D adventure out of a journey through CarryOn twisted mind? We can slay the dragons, tame the apes and max out our geek points!

587 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:20:26pm

re: #581 windsagio

The culture is changing, and people don't like it, so they're ramping up the hostility.

Its hard to just take it for the sake of peace sometimes >>

That's right. A common technique is to pile on, say, LVQ, and then piously bewail how everything degenerates when 'certain people' are around.

588 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:22:44pm

re: #579 windsagio

re: #579 windsagio

THE WAVE RIDER!

I love me some WaveRider.

I think the waverider looks like the dude from Streethawk, the sort of skintight leather motorcycle guy, all matte black and badass looking. And then he finds a pay phone in a windswept purgatory outside of time and space, and gives Art bell a call.

"Yes art, I'm here in Dimension Z, where it rains diamonds and the ether queen rules with an iron claw."

589 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:22:45pm

re: #581 windsagio

The culture is changing, and people don't like it, so they're ramping up the hostility.

Its hard to just take it for the sake of peace sometimes >>

I see it a little bit differently. It seems the squabble today really was pent up anger from days past. Red set it off on a tangent when another poster appeared to defend Ayers. Then all hell broke loose when Red made a rude comment. Could have ended peacefully but no.

590 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:23:25pm

re: #586 Dark_Falcon

So, shall we make a D&D adventure out of a journey through CarryOn twisted mind? We can slay the dragons, tame the apes and max out our geek points!

YES

I'm a fourth level elf, with glowing blond locks, astride a steel unicorn.

591 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:24:40pm

re: #589 Racer X

theres a pattern man.

A takes a positoin B doesn't like

B gets all snide and attackey on A

A defends themselves, fight starts

+100 posts

People start decrying the squabbling, and leave the thread.


It happens at least twice a day.

592 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:25:32pm

re: #582 jamesfirecat

I don't drink.

I also don't smoke.

I'm one of those "nothing in my pockets could you spare a dollar" liberals, having an addictive habit is too rich for my blood, I don't even order out for Pizza I just bring more home with me from the Caff since as a college student that's part of the room and board my parents pay for... at least until those student loans come due...

I basically pay for my bad habits with other bad habits, like drawing weird-ass art for money. :D

I remember my student days. I remember digging through couch cushions for quarters so I could sit all evening on the Klax machine in the arcade next door.

Windy remembers!

593 Silvergirl  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:26:11pm

re: #589 Racer X

I see it a little bit differently. It seems the squabble today really was pent up anger from days past. Red set it off on a tangent when another poster appeared to defend Ayers. Then all hell broke loose when Red made a rude comment. Could have ended peacefully but no.

I just got back. Nice to feel the semi-calm.

I saw a T-shirt today:

Patience is a virtue
but flipping someone
off feels better.

594 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:26:39pm

re: #581 windsagio

The culture is changing, and people don't like it, so they're ramping up the hostility.

Its hard to just take it for the sake of peace sometimes >>

It's like a boiling caldera of accumulated wingnut butthurt. Every now and then the pressure builds up, there's an eruption, and the stupid flows free. Lately, as we have seen, the frequency of these events has increased.

595 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:26:54pm

re: #589 Racer X

I see it a little bit differently. It seems the squabble today really was pent up anger from days past. Red set it off on a tangent when another poster appeared to defend Ayers. Then all hell broke loose when Red made a rude comment. Could have ended peacefully but no.

That's right, because red would not retract or apologise and insisted on going on with its lie.
That's what happened here.

596 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:27:03pm

re: #593 Silvergirl

I just got back. Nice to feel the semi-calm.

I saw a T-shirt today:

Patience is a virtue
but flipping someone
off feels better.

My tinted windows make that difficult.

"Did he see me? I totally flipped him the bird! Dammit."

597 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:27:39pm

re: #588 WindUpBird

just for you: A list of art bell calls on the youtubes.

caller from area 51, station goes 'offline'

the flying into area 51 call "Sir, I think you're making a very big mistake!"

An art bell channel

598 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:28:08pm

re: #559 CarryOn

he was trying to wake the world up to what that foundation was actually founded upon...which IS aborting BLACK babies.

Overblown.

I have read PP materials from I think the mid-sixties that had a bit of a racist undertone to them. I know there were racists who supported PP because they wanted more black babies to be aborted. And I suspect that's what O'Keefe was trying to allude to (as most people are completely unaware of that history.)

But it's really dishonest to say it's the reason PP was founded. I hate to come to the defense of Planned Parenthood, but in this case, I have to -- they weren't founded to abort black babies; that's a pretty ridiculous and dishonest stretch.

599 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:28:13pm

re: #597 windsagio

Oh my God I have to listen to these

600 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:28:51pm

re: #599 WindUpBird

I wanted the Wave Rider, but I can't find any on youtube.

601 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:29:06pm

re: #590 WindUpBird

YES

I'm a fourth level elf, with glowing blond locks, astride a steel unicorn.

Our greatest foe shall be the Gargantuan Brown Dragon that represents the CarryOn's posts blog-turds.

602 Jimmah  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:29:11pm

re: #589 Racer X

I see it a little bit differently. It seems the squabble today really was pent up anger from days past. Red set it off on a tangent when another poster appeared to defend Ayers. Then all hell broke loose when Red made a rude comment. Could have ended peacefully but no.

The only way that ends peacefully is when brookly red apologises to iceweasel for suggesting that she supports terrorism. There is nothing stopping him from doing that.

603 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:30:01pm

re: #591 windsagio

theres a pattern man.

A takes a positoin B doesn't like

B gets all snide and attackey on A

A defends themselves, fight starts

+100 posts

People start decrying the squabbling, and leave the thread.

It happens at least twice a day.

Yup.

And some days "A" is on the left side, some days "A" is on the right side of the fence.

Both sides need to chill. We would never say these things in person.

604 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:30:18pm

re: #598 LotharBot

Overblown.

I have read PP materials from I think the mid-sixties that had a bit of a racist undertone to them. I know there were racists who supported PP because they wanted more black babies to be aborted. And I suspect that's what O'Keefe was trying to allude to (as most people are completely unaware of that history.)

But it's really dishonest to say it's the reason PP was founded. I hate to come to the defense of Planned Parenthood, but in this case, I have to -- they weren't founded to abort black babies; that's a pretty ridiculous and dishonest stretch.

Overblown? more like "I took acid and I tore my mind on a jagged star BLACK BABIES ABORTION PLANNED PARENTHOOD INFOWARS I CAN SEE FOREVER"

I mean, how do you even respond to that claim? I dont want to argue PP, I love the organization, but the fors and againsts of it might as well be carved in granite, it'd take a crane and a bulldozer to have the argument these days.

605 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:31:20pm

re: #601 Dark_Falcon

Our greatest foe shall be the Gargantuan Brown Dragon that represents the CarryOn's posts blog-turds.

The sentient blog-turd awakens! Perhaps Wyvernshear, my enchanted sentient falchion, will slay it!

606 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:32:12pm

re: #600 windsagio

I wanted the Wave Rider, but I can't find any on youtube.

GOD DAMMIT

I'll make that my google project for tonight.

Tracking the Waverider: An odyssey through the mirrors of God

607 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:33:52pm

re: #603 Racer X

I'd say its not about 'sides' its about 'individuals'

A could be anyone on this blog, but B is generally one of a few bad actors.

608 windsagio  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:34:29pm

re: #606 WindUpBird

Tracking the Waverider: An odyssey through the mirrors of God

New Mastodon album?

609 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:36:22pm

re: #602 Jimmah

The only way that ends peacefully is when brookly red apologises to iceweasel for suggesting that she supports terrorism. There is nothing stopping him from doing that.

Agreed. But Ice could have ended it easily by saying "Ayers was a terrorist and should have spent time in jail". Red could have easily ended it by apologizing for the inference of supporting terrorism.

Instead we have another thread gone to pot.

610 Racer X  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:36:56pm

re: #607 windsagio

I'd say its not about 'sides' its about 'individuals'

A could be anyone on this blog, but B is generally one of a few bad actors.

Agreed.

611 LotharBot  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:40:06pm

re: #604 WindUpBird

Overblown? more like "I took acid and I tore my mind on a jagged star BLACK BABIES ABORTION PLANNED PARENTHOOD INFOWARS I CAN SEE FOREVER"

I mean, how do you even respond to that claim?

As honestly and directly as possible.

This variety of troll likes to make overblown claims in order to provoke overblown denials. He wants you to say "there's never been anything racist about Planned Parenthood" so he can call you a liar when he digs out some mid-sixties PP pamphlet with racist undertones. But if you say quite honestly "some of those undertones existed in parts of PP and among some supporters, but they weren't foundational or common, and they're gone now" you steal all his thunder. What trolling can he do in response to that? I've only met a few master trolls who could persist after that.

612 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:40:32pm

re: #609 Racer X

Agreed. But Ice could have ended it easily by saying "Ayers was a terrorist and should have spent time in jail". Red could have easily ended it by apologizing for the inference of supporting terrorism.

Instead we have another thread gone to pot.

Sorry, Racer, but that's bullshit. I've denounced Ayers before and there was ZERO reason for the troll to accuse me of somehow needing to.
See, I've seen that game here before. The demands that I denounce terrorism, or condemn bin Laden, or some other bollocks never ended no matter how many times I made my position clear. Just like there were ongoing demands that I 'prove' I'm American.
Nope, I'm not signing the Glorious Loyalty Oath. Fuck the troll for demanding that I do.

613 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:48:01pm

re: #609 Racer X

Agreed. But Ice could have ended it easily by saying "Ayers was a terrorist and should have spent time in jail". Red could have easily ended it by apologizing for the inference of supporting terrorism.

Instead we have another thread gone to pot.

I'm not so sure that ice even needed to give an affirmative response to red on that, although it might have possibly ended the squabble sooner (but I somehow don't think red still would have let it go). All that was needed was a little reading comprehension by red...instead, they staked their argument on a faulty premise and ran with it, continuing to pound on it even after they were told they were mistaken.

614 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:50:07pm

Almost overnight the Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was in full flower, and Captain Black was enraptured to discover himself spearheading it. "The important thing is to keep them pledging," he explained to his cohorts. "It doesn't matter whether they mean it or not. That's why they make little kids pledge allegiance even before they know what 'pledge' and 'allegiance' mean." He had really hit on something.

All the enlisted men and officers on combat duty had to sign a loyalty oath to get their map cases from the intelligence tent, a second loyalty oath to receive their flak suits and parachutes from the parachute tent, a third loyalty oath for Lieutenant Balkington, the motor vehicle officer, to be allowed to ride from the squadron to the airfield in one of the trucks. Every time they turned around there was another loyalty oath to be signed. They signed a loyalty oath to get their pay from the finance officer, to obtain their PX supplies, to have their hair cut by the Italian barbers.

Without realizing how it had come about, the combat men in the squandron discovered themselves dominated by the administrators appointed to serve them. They were bullied, insulted, harassed and shoved about all day long by one after the other. When they voiced objection, Captain Black replied that people who were loyal would not mind signing all the loyalty oaths they had to. To anyone who questioned the effectiveness of the loyalty oaths, he replied that people who really did owe allegiance to their country would be proud to pledge it as often as he forced them to. And to anyone who questioned the morality, he replied that "The Star-Spangled Banner" was the greatest piece of music ever composed. The more loyalty oaths a person signed, the more loyal he was; to Captain Black it was as simple as that, and he had Corporal Kolodny sign hundreds with his name each day so that he could always prove he was more loyal than anyone else.

And another Catch 22 excerpt for our little patriot brookly red, who felt the need to go on and on, and end by declaiming he 'gets overly emotional when his peeps are murdered'

"You know, that might be the answer - to act boastfully about something we ought to be ashamed of. That's a trick that never seems to fail." Chapter 13, pg. 149

615 harry91  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:52:13pm

re: #559 CarryOn
What?

616 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 5:55:05pm

re: #614 iceweasel

I still have to remind myself that flag pins really were a goddamn issue during the campaign.

617 iceweasel  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 6:01:03pm

re: #616 Obdicut

I still have to remind myself that flag pins really were a goddamn issue during the campaign.

Right-- and whether or not Obama puts his hand on his heart during the pledge, etc, etc, world without end.

618 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 6:40:15pm
619 thefarmer  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 10:17:40pm

OT here, but if I don't post I'll forget it as I have to work this weekend, as I do all others. I'm w/ Walter that Pachuari guy has to go.

"The head of a panel of United Nations climate scientists said Saturday he would not resign despite a recent admission that a panel report warning Himalayan glaciers could be gone by 2035 was hundreds of years off.

The claim, made in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's voluminous, Nobel-winning report, came in a paragraph with several errors. Data indicates the ice could melt by 2350. The assertion went virtually unnoticed until The Sunday Times said the projection seemed to be based on a news report.

The scientists are investigating how the forecast got into the report and apologized Thursday for the mistakes, adding that they were not intentional. But the errors have opened the door for attacks from climate change skeptics.

But Rajendra Pachauri, who heads the panel, said no action would be taken against the authors of the report and he would not resign.

"I have no intention of resigning from my position," Pachauri said on Saturday, adding the errors were unintentional and not significant in comparison to the entire report. The mistakes also do not negate the fact that worldwide, glaciers are melting faster than ever, he said.

He added that such mistakes must be avoided because effective climate change policy depends on good, credible science. He said he is now working on the fifth IPCC assessment report dealing with sea level rise and ice sheets, oceans, clouds and carbon accounting. The report is expected by 2014.

Related Stories'Special Report' Panel on Climate Change and 9/11 Suspects in New York City
On Sunday, the environment ministers from Brazil, South Africa, India and China are scheduled to meet in the Indian capital New Delhi to discuss how they will fight global warming. The four nations, which brokered a political accord with President Obama at last month's climate summit in Copenhagen, will play a key role in shaping a legally binding climate deal that the U.N. hopes will be completed by the end of 2010 in Mexico.

Pachauri said it was "a practical necessity" to postpone a Jan. 31 deadline set by the Copenhagen accord for developing countries to present their nonbinding carbon-curbing actions, and for rich nations to submit economy-wide emissions targets for 2020."

Sorry, I've been an envivronmentalist for years. I'm also a farmer and much more attuned to our land than Gore or Pachauri for the last 31 years while farming. More than they can say I'll bet. But I'll also bet somehow they made millions more than me dispensing their BS.

The agenda to transfer wealth from the US to others is blantant. Environment is just an excuse in this case. I'm NOT buying it.

T

620 freetoken  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 10:20:27pm

re: #619 thefarmer


Sorry, I've been an envivronmentalist for years. I'm also a farmer and much more attuned to our land than Gore or Pachauri for the last 31 years while farming. More than they can say I'll bet. But I'll also bet somehow they made millions more than me dispensing their BS.

The agenda to transfer wealth from the US to others is blantant. Environment is just an excuse in this case. I'm NOT buying it.

T

Oh yeah... AGW is just a conspiracy by the UN...

621 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 5, 2010 10:28:20pm

re: #420 CarryOn

A little late, but while you're on a self-inflicted timeout from Stinky, I thought I'd tell you this:

FOAD, creep...

622 hugh59  Sat, Feb 6, 2010 7:42:26am

O'Keefegate? Oh please. I am a Jew and I have seen several parades put on by "progressive" that had blatantly anti-semitic marchers in it. Does that make every marcher an anti-semite? No.

"Progressives" want to label everyone who disagrees with them as either "stupid," evil," or both.

623 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 6, 2010 8:17:56am

re: #622 hugh59

Do people like you ever realize the irony of saying that an entire group wants to label everyone who disagrees with them?

624 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 6, 2010 4:05:28pm
625 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 6, 2010 4:07:25pm

re: #624 Zaggs

You just zagged when you should have zigged.

626 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 6, 2010 4:11:46pm

re: #624 Zaggs

And you kiss your mother with that mouth? Bye now!

627 hugh59  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 6:08:47am

"Do people like you ever realize the irony of saying that an entire group wants to label everyone who disagrees with them?"

You are right. Let me rephrase my comment:

Some people who call themselves "progressives" want to label everyone who disagrees with them as either "stupid," evil," or both.


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