CRU Scientist Got Death Threats

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Environment • Sun Feb 7, 2010 at 2:04 pm PST • Views: 370

Embattled climate scientist Phil Jones talks to the Times Online: The leak was bad. Then came the death threats - Times Online.

At the worst possible time, in the days immediately before the Copenhagen climate summit in December, it enabled sceptics across the globe to claim that climate science was fatally flawed and its practitioners a shifty gang who twisted the facts to suit their agenda and shut out anyone who disagreed with them.

Jones insists that is not the way it was, but concedes it was the way it may have looked. He now accepts that he did not treat the FoI requests as seriously as he should have done. “I regret that I did not deal with them in the right way,” he told The Sunday Times. “In a way, I misjudged the situation.”

But he pleads provocation. Last year in July alone the unit received 60 FoI requests from across the world. With a staff of only 13 to cope with them, the demands were accumulating faster than they could be dealt with. “According to the rules,” says Jones, “you have to do 18 hours’ work on each one before you’re allowed to turn it down.” It meant that the scientists would have had a lot of their time diverted from research.

A further irritation was that most of the data was available online, making the FoI requests, in Jones’s view, needless and a vexatious waste of his time. In the circumstances, he says, he thought it reasonable to refer the applicants to the website of the Historical Climatology Network in the US.

He also suspected that the CRU was the target of a co-ordinated attempt to interfere with its work — a suspicion that hardened into certainty when, over a matter of days, it received 40 similar FoI requests. Each applicant asked for data from five different countries, 200 in all, which would have been a daunting task even for someone with nothing else to do. It was clear to Jones that the attack originated from an old adversary, the sceptical website Climate Audit, run by Steve McIntyre, a former minerals prospector and arch climate sceptic.

“We were clearly being targeted,” says Jones. “Only 22% of the FoI enquiries were identifiably from within the UK, 39% were from abroad and 39% were untraceable.” What irked him was that the foreign applicants would all have had sources closer to hand in their own countries.

“I think they just wanted to waste our time,” he says. “They wanted to slow us down.”

It was pure irritation, he says, that provoked him and others to write the notorious emails apparently conspiring to destroy or withhold data. “It was just frustration. I thought the requests were just distractions. It was taking us away from our day jobs. It was written in anger.”

But he insists that no data were destroyed. “We have no data to delete. It comes to us from institutions around the world. We interpret data. We don’t create or collect it. It’s all available from other sources.”

If the leak itself was bad, the aftermath was the stuff of nightmares. Even now, weeks later, Jones seems rigid with shock. “There were death threats,” he says. “People said I should go and kill myself. They said they knew where I lived.” Two more death threats came last week after the deputy information commissioner delivered his verdict, making more work for Norfolk police, who are already investigating the theft of the emails.

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231 comments

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1 jamesfirecat  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:07:36pm

Wow... I just don't have the words, can't anyone take a sensible position on anything these days without getting death threats?

2 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:09:32pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

The Salmon Rushdie model of outrage.

3 I AM BREITBART!  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:12:53pm

Any threat to some people's unflappable infallibility seems to result in a self-justified, murderous rage. I don't understand it, but it's completely observable.

4 exelwood  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:12:58pm

Any word if he'll be able to keep his position after the determination he broke the law? How about the IPCC head, will his roll?

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

5 austin_blue  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:15:01pm

re: #4 exelwood

Any word if he'll be able to keep his position after the determination he broke the law? How about the IPCC head, will his roll?

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

Already? Oh, boy, here we go...

6 I AM BREITBART!  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:17:07pm

re: #4 exelwood

Breakin the Law, Breakin the Law... bow bow... Breakin the Law, Breakin the Law... bow bow

7 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:17:17pm

In the comments for the Times Online article, someone links to comments by Anthony Watts and Steven McIntyre that support Phil Jones' claim that the CRU was deliberately targeted for harassment by multiple FOIA requests.

8 exelwood  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:19:08pm

re: #5 austin_blue

Already? Oh, boy, here we go...

I would think these are legitimate questions or have they been answered and I just missed the thread. Just looking for a little help, the IPCC's shenanigans have the deniers rolling in the isles laughing and usually you folks are on top of these things.

9 freetoken  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:19:09pm

re: #4 exelwood

At the bottom of that article you linked, at the Telegraph, it says "Research by Richard North".

I wonder if that is the same Richard North who runs the EUReferendum website (which is occasionally linked here by poster Bagua), who co-authors various AGW-science denial articles with his buddy Delingpole at the Telegraph; the same Richard North who is the father of the now-banned-at-LGF "acidtrash" (who does/did some of the website work for his father), and so on and so forth...

10 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:19:25pm

re: #7 Charles

In the comments for the Times Online article, someone links to comments by Anthony Watts that support Phil Jones' claim that the CRU was deliberately targeted for harassment by multiple FOIA requests.

It's possible, but they certainly took a cavalier attitude in their response to the whole thing.

11 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:21:11pm
12 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:24:13pm

re: #11 MandyManners

Where are the paragraphs about his being suicidal?

He's been through the wringer.

(it appears the Times has more than one article on the same basic subject... here is the one you have linked to)

THE scientist at the centre of the “climategate” email scandal has revealed that he was so traumatised by the global backlash against him that he contemplated suicide.

Professor Phil Jones said in an exclusive interview with The Sunday Times that he had thought about killing himself “several times”. He acknowledged similarities to Dr David Kelly, the scientist who committed suicide after being exposed as the source for a BBC report that alleged the government had “sexed up” evidence to justify the invasion of Iraq.

In emails that were hacked into and seized upon by global-warming sceptics before the Copenhagen climate summit in December, Jones appeared to call upon his colleagues to destroy scientific data rather than release it to people intent on discrediting their work monitoring climate change.

Jones, 57, said he was unprepared for the scandal: “I am just a scientist. I have no training in PR or dealing with crises.”

The incident has taken a severe toll on his health. He has lost more than a stone in weight and disclosed he is on beta-blockers and using sleeping pills. He said the support of his family, and especially the love of his five-year-old granddaughter, had helped him to shake off suicidal thoughts: “I wanted to see her grow up.”

He remains at risk, still receiving death threats from around the world including two in the past week: “I was shocked. People said I should go and kill myself. They said that they knew where I lived. They were coming from all over the world.”

Jones has temporarily stood down as director of the climatic research unit at the University of East Anglia. He fiercely defends the unit’s science — “I stand by it 100%” — but now accepts that he did not treat Freedom of Information (FoI) requests for the data as seriously as he should have done. Jones believes that the unit was maliciously targeted with multiple FoI requests by climate change sceptics determined to disrupt its work.

Last week Graham Smith, the deputy information commissioner, ruled that by failing to release requested data Jones and his colleagues breached FoI regulations. The affair is now the subject of a review led by Sir Muir Russell, former vice-chancellor of Glasgow University.

13 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:24:21pm

re: #11 MandyManners

The blogwars should not have real casualties. Not like that anyway.

14 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:26:52pm

re: #11 MandyManners

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

Interesting, same reporter, same picture, two different texts.

15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:27:30pm

Superbowl party.

Later knuckleheads.

16 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:30:59pm

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

Interesting, same reporter, same picture, two different texts.

Aren't the topics basically the same? In the article I linked, there is mention of the death threats yet there is no mention of his suicidal thoughts in the other one.

17 austin_blue  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:32:14pm

Bye, FBV! I'm on my way out the door, too. Friends from Lafayette. Mudbug etouffe and jambalaya. I'm bringing praline cupcakes and shrimp remoulade.

Geaux Saints!

18 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:33:22pm

re: #13 Rightwingconspirator

The blogwars should not have real casualties. Not like that anyway.

Personally, the "sucide" article sounds a bit hyperbole, like he is pulling a modified Tawana Brawley. Statement like "disclosed he is on beta-blockers..." What did he do, develop cardiac arrhythmia's because of a scandal? This is not something that you "catch" from having problems at work.

19 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:34:25pm

re: #16 MandyManners

Aren't the topics basically the same? In the article I linked, there is mention of the death threats yet there is no mention of his suicidal thoughts in the other one.

In your second link, both his thoughts of suicide and the threats are mentioned.

"The incident has taken a severe toll on his health. He has lost more than a stone in weight and disclosed he is on beta-blockers and using sleeping pills. He said the support of his family, and especially the love of his five-year-old granddaughter, had helped him to shake off suicidal thoughts: “I wanted to see her grow up.”

He remains at risk, still receiving death threats from around the world including two in the past week: “I was shocked. People said I should go and kill myself. They said that they knew where I lived. They were coming from all over the world.” "

20 Mad Al-Jaffee  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:34:53pm

Puppy Bowl is on. I'm outta here! Have a great Superbowl Sunday, scaly ones.

21 freetoken  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:35:10pm

re: #11 MandyManners

I'd say the majority of scientists I have known have not been of the personality type that deals well with the intense social pressure that comes with political leadership and political/social conflict.

Which is why they probably do science and not run for office.

Jones certainly has been targeted. Indeed, any of the paleoclimatologists who become public figures are a target. Note what the commenters are writing over on the FoxNews article about Mann's being cleared by Penn State, under Fox's egregiously misleadleadinqgly titled entry: Penn State Probe into Mann's Wrongdoing a 'Total Whitewash':

paladin7429
Virginia

I am a Penn State alum and this is a joke. Can you imagine what the school would do if a grad student faked data, especially if it were on some politically incorrect topic?! I will contribute nothing more to the university as long as Mann is employed there. I urge all Penn Staters to withhold their annual contributions until he is gone. Please suggest this to any PSUer you know.

Saturday, February 06, 2010 at 5:20 PM


-

machiavelli
Tennessee

As an active duty Army officer and Penn State Alumni I have to say that ethical standards demand this be investigated fully and dealt with. If I had displayed the flagrant disregard for the scientific process in my COURSEWORK as this PROFESSOR displayed in his ACTUAL JOB... I would have failed out. I remember when JOPA benched their star running back (Enis) right before a big bowl game because of academic failures. That is the integrity I expect from PSU. Sorry Alumni Association... no money from me anytime soon.

Saturday, February 06, 2010 at 3:04 PM


-

Note how Penn State is now the evil one, just because indeed Michael Mann has been cleared of misconduct. However, that reality (that Mann after all isn't the devil) doesn't fit well with preconceived notions of the FauxNews viewership, so now they have to vent their wrath on the university.

stephenshehane
Nevada

This man will get away with his fraud just like "I created the Internet Gore" has gotten away with the same fraud. It is "politically correct" and no one had better touch these frauds or the toucher will be belittled and or destroyed by the main line press.

Saturday, February 06, 2010 at 2:29 PM


-

bds1959
Pennsylvania

Look at this guy's picture - he looks smug and arrogant - what a surprise! NOT!!! As a Penn State Alumni and supporter, this saddens and sickens me. This fraud should be in jail, but he's still getting his taxpayer-supported salary of much more than most of us. Except through the Nittany Lion CLub, Penn State will be recieving NO monetary donations from me. Rightly or wrongly, $$$ talks. I say to all other Penn State Alumni - LET'S TALK! Let's "vote" with out wallets!!!

Saturday, February 06, 2010 at 10:31 AM

It has never been shown that Mann's work is a "fraud". Not at all, the opposite has been shown. However, again, the real world isn't what the haters need it to be, so they will invent whatever it takes to justify their hate.

Those were just four of the comments from the first page of comments. There are of course many more.

The paleoclimatologist are a threat to the AGW-deniers, just like paleontologists are a threat to creationists. In both cases, the scientists who dig stuff up from the past provide the evidence for ideas which threaten the self-identity of people.

22 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:35:38pm

re: #16 MandyManners

Aren't the topics basically the same? In the article I linked, there is mention of the death threats yet there is no mention of his suicidal thoughts in the other one.

All I said was two different texts. I don't know if these reporters write a certain length article and then it is distributed in different versions dependent on placement, space considerations... maybe he wrote one article with ALL the information and it was divided into different length articles.

They are different, I don't know why, nor am I suggesting something devious, just pointing out something.

23 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:35:50pm

The Saints will win ... shades of Super Bowl III when Broadway Joe shocked the COLTS.

24 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:35:52pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Personally, the "sucide" article sounds a bit hyperbole, like he is pulling a modified Tawana Brawley. Statement like "disclosed he is on beta-blockers..." What did he do, develop cardiac arrhythmia's because of a scandal? This is not something that you "catch" from having problems at work.

Stress can cause heart problems.

25 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:35:58pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Personally, the "sucide" article sounds a bit hyperbole, like he is pulling a modified Tawana Brawley. Statement like "disclosed he is on beta-blockers..." What did he do, develop cardiac arrhythmia's because of a scandal? This is not something that you "catch" from having problems at work.

Beta blockers are also used for hypertension, something that you can 'catch' at work.

26 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:36:11pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Stress kills like that. A quiet person suddenly exposed and hammered in public... I am reminded of the lady Susan Boyle. And a lot of that attention was adulation.

Some do not have the fortitude.

27 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:36:28pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Personally, the "sucide" article sounds a bit hyperbole, like he is pulling a modified Tawana Brawley. Statement like "disclosed he is on beta-blockers..." What did he do, develop cardiac arrhythmia's because of a scandal? This is not something that you "catch" from having problems at work.

Beta blockers are also used for anxiety attacks...Not sure if extreme cases of these attacks could lead to suicide.

28 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:36:36pm

re: #19 b_sharp

That's what I said. The article I linked has both.

29 Conservative Moonbat  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:36:46pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Personally, the "sucide" article sounds a bit hyperbole, like he is pulling a modified Tawana Brawley. Statement like "disclosed he is on beta-blockers..." What did he do, develop cardiac arrhythmia's because of a scandal? This is not something that you "catch" from having problems at work.

They are used for treating high blood pressure and anxiety as well.

30 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:37:12pm
31 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:37:30pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Personally, the "sucide" article sounds a bit hyperbole, like he is pulling a modified Tawana Brawley. Statement like "disclosed he is on beta-blockers..." What did he do, develop cardiac arrhythmia's because of a scandal? This is not something that you "catch" from having problems at work.

I take a beta-blocker for a cardiac arrhythmia - and work-related stress can indeed make the problem worse. I know this from experience.

32 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:38:15pm

re: #21 freetoken

My involvement with this topic today is just wondering about the two different stories.

33 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:38:30pm

re: #25 b_sharp

re: #26 Rightwingconspirator

re: #24 MandyManners

From what I have been told by my doctor, hypertension is not something that just happens from stress, it is a mechanical medical condition that is chronic. I take beta blockers...

"Hypertension is a chronic medical condition in which the blood pressure is elevated. It is also referred to as high blood pressure or shortened to HT, HTN or HPN. The word "hypertension", by itself, normally refers to systemic, arterial hypertension.[1]"

34 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:38:30pm

re: #28 MandyManners

That's what I said. The article I linked has both.

Sorry, I didn't backtrack the posts.

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:38:42pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Personally, the "sucide" article sounds a bit hyperbole, like he is pulling a modified Tawana Brawley. Statement like "disclosed he is on beta-blockers..." What did he do, develop cardiac arrhythmia's because of a scandal? This is not something that you "catch" from having problems at work.

Beta blockers are used to treat anxiety.

"Tawana Brawley"?

36 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:39:09pm

re: #22 Walter L. Newton

All I said was two different texts. I don't know if these reporters write a certain length article and then it is distributed in different versions dependent on placement, space considerations... maybe he wrote one article with ALL the information and it was divided into different length articles.

They are different, I don't know why, nor am I suggesting something devious, just pointing out something.

I'd have to print both out and compare them to see how similar they are, something I'm not prepared to do.

37 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:40:29pm

re: #34 b_sharp

Sorry, I didn't backtrack the posts.

'Sokay. This is confusing.

38 Conservative Moonbat  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:40:40pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

Beta blockers are used to treat anxiety.

Post Traumatic Stress too, now that I think about it.

39 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:41:03pm

re: #31 reine.de.tout

I take a beta-blocker for a cardiac arrhythmia - and work-related stress can indeed make the problem worse. I know this from experience.

I reread the article again... it's hard to tell what the comment meant "disclosed he was on beta blockers..." Are they trying to say he was taking the medication because of the current incidents or that he has a chronic condition that this current incident can exasperate?

My first reading was he suddenly had to start taking beta blockers because of this.

I may be wrong.

40 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:41:44pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #38 Conservative Moonbat

3.1 Essential hypertension
3.2 Secondary hypertension
3.2.1 Adrenal
3.2.2 Kidney
3.2.3 Medication side effects
3.2.4 Pregnancy
3.2.5 Sleep disturbances

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:42:43pm

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

I reread the article again... it's hard to tell what the comment meant "disclosed he was on beta blockers..." Are they trying to say he was taking the medication because of the current incidents or that he has a chronic condition that this current incident can exasperate?

My first reading was he suddenly had to start taking beta blockers because of this.

I may be wrong.

It's completely possible that he was prescribed them because of high work-related anxiety.

Basically, they stop your body's panic reaction, making it possible to get through the day without hiding in the lady's room.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:43:26pm

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

re: #38 Conservative Moonbat

3.1 Essential hypertension
3.2 Secondary hypertension
3.2.1 Adrenal
3.2.2 Kidney
3.2.3 Medication side effects
3.2.4 Pregnancy
3.2.5 Sleep disturbances

Is that a list of things beta blockers are used to treat?

43 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:44:14pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

It's completely possible that he was prescribed them because of high work-related anxiety.

Basically, they stop your body's panic reaction, making it possible to get through the day without hiding in the lady's room.

Yeah, I'm on a beta blocker because my mind/body were in constant 'fight or flight' mode. Truly annoying, to say the least.
:)

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:44:27pm
45 Conservative Moonbat  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:45:19pm

He could have been so traumatized that they were being used to prevent PTSD.

[Link: www.neuropsychiatryreviews.com...]

46 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:45:25pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

It's completely possible that he was prescribed them because of high work-related anxiety.

Basically, they stop your body's panic reaction, making it possible to get through the day without hiding in the lady's room.

According to this Wiki, anxiety is one of the results of hypertension, not vice versa.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I cannot find anything in this article, under primary uses and secondary uses that indicate that beta blockers are used for anxiety.

What am I missing?

47 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:45:56pm

re: #33 Walter L. Newton

re: #26 Rightwingconspirator

re: #24 MandyManners

From what I have been told by my doctor, hypertension is not something that just happens from stress, it is a mechanical medical condition that is chronic. I take beta blockers...

"Hypertension is a chronic medical condition in which the blood pressure is elevated. It is also referred to as high blood pressure or shortened to HT, HTN or HPN. The word "hypertension", by itself, normally refers to systemic, arterial hypertension.[1]"

It may be a matter of semantics; elevated blood pressure can be triggered by stress for short periods of time, but perhaps not long enough to be defined as hypertension. His doctor may just be treating anxiety attacks and elevated blood pressure with medication usually reserved for the chronic condition.

It may be the pressure increase is severe, but who knows without directly asking?

48 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:46:47pm

If I may . . .
I will also address this guy's assertion that people were sending FOI requests to divert their attention and waste their time.

This can absolutely be true. I've had to deal with requests for information that is "public" information, and invariably, the requests are overly broad and often vague, wanting things going back for a gajillion years, wanting "any and all related" (who the hell knows exactly what that means), and just for one request, you could spend several 8-hour workdays and a lot of overtime trying to collect and collate it all, because your records are maintained in a way that makes it easy for YOU to find what you need, but that does not necessarily mean it makes it easy to find the information people have asked for in the format they've asked to receive it. It's a mess.

If they got 60 request at about the same time - they would need to hire an entire staff of people to deal with that, OR put their real work to the side for awhile. As I said - it's a mess.

49 Conservative Moonbat  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:46:48pm

re: #46 Walter L. Newton

According to this Wiki, anxiety is one of the results of hypertension, not vice versa.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I cannot find anything in this article, under primary uses and secondary uses that indicate that beta blockers are used for anxiety.

What am I missing?

[Link: www.healthyplace.com...]

50 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:46:52pm

re: #33 Walter L. Newton

re: #26 Rightwingconspirator

re: #24 MandyManners

From what I have been told by my doctor, hypertension is not something that just happens from stress, it is a mechanical medical condition that is chronic. I take beta blockers...

"Hypertension is a chronic medical condition in which the blood pressure is elevated. It is also referred to as high blood pressure or shortened to HT, HTN or HPN. The word "hypertension", by itself, normally refers to systemic, arterial hypertension.[1]"

I take a beta blocker, and a calcium channel blocker, and an ACE inhibitor, every day. A few years ago I was handling my genetic tendency towards hypertension just fine until I found out my ex-wife was pregnant by another man, then within a few days I was spiking to 220/180 and spent three nights in the ICU.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about Walter, stress can absolutely bring on a hypertensive crisis.

51 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:47:07pm

re: #45 Conservative Moonbat

He could have been so traumatized that they were being used to prevent PTSD.

[Link: www.neuropsychiatryreviews.com...]

PTSD? That's caused my intense, sudden trauma such as being taken hostage, being raped, being in a plane crash or car wreck.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:47:35pm

re: #46 Walter L. Newton

According to this Wiki, anxiety is one of the results of hypertension, not vice versa.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I cannot find anything in this article, under primary uses and secondary uses that indicate that beta blockers are used for anxiety.

What am I missing?

Google "beta blockers" and "anxiety", and you'll find ample material.

53 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:47:52pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

Beta Blockers used for Anxiety

However, beta blockers are also prescribed off-label for anxiety.

[Link: www.helpguide.org...]

It seems like they are used for this. I never heard of this before.

54 captdiggs  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:48:21pm

He's not the only one.

Timothy Ball, a former climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg in Canada, has received five deaths threats by email since raising concerns about the degree to which man was affecting climate change.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:48:28pm

re: #53 Walter L. Newton

However, beta blockers are also prescribed off-label for anxiety.

[Link: www.helpguide.org...]

It seems like they are used for this. I never heard of this before.

I got given them by my doctor during a very bad period at work. It's common. They work.

56 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:48:45pm

re: #51 MandyManners

PTSD? That's caused my intense, sudden trauma such as being taken hostage, being raped, being in a plane crash or car wreck.

I'm not taling about anxiety. I'm talking about repressed memories of the violent event that produce flash-backs that cause panic attacks that send you falling to the floor, thinking you're dying.

57 Conservative Moonbat  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:48:48pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

I take a beta blocker, and a calcium channel blocker, and an ACE inhibitor, every day. A few years ago I was handling my genetic tendency towards hypertension just fine until I found out my ex-wife was pregnant by another man, then within a few days I was spiking to 220/180 and spent three nights in the ICU.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about Walter, stress can absolutely bring on a hypertensive crisis.

Just as an aside I hope you broke the guy's jaw.

58 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:49:22pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Google "beta blockers" and "anxiety", and you'll find ample material.

I did... and they are not FDA approved for that use. But it appears that they are being used for that.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:50:03pm

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

I did... and they are not FDA approved for that use. But it appears that they are being used for that.

If it's being done at Kaiser, I'm pretty sure it's being done lots of places.

60 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:50:15pm

re: #57 Conservative Moonbat

Just as an aside I hope you broke the guy's jaw.

Why, she was my ex, mentally it was good riddance, emotionally things are not always so easy.

61 The Shadow Do  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:50:32pm

re: #23 _RememberTonyC

The Saints will win ... shades of Super Bowl III when Broadway Joe shocked the COLTS.

Feels more like SB XII to me, an old Broncos fan. The crazy in LA feels the same as the crazy in Colorado in 1977. Orange Crush and all that.

I do want the Saints to erase the Aints though. And I was born a Hoosier!

Who Dat?!

62 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:50:34pm

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

I did... and they are not FDA approved for that use. But it appears that they are being used for that.

Trust me, they work for anxiety disorders. Very well, in my case.
:)

63 Conservative Moonbat  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:51:04pm

re: #51 MandyManners

PTSD? That's caused my intense, sudden trauma such as being taken hostage, being raped, being in a plane crash or car wreck.

C-PTSD is a little different

64 claire  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:52:33pm

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

I did... and they are not FDA approved for that use. But it appears that they are being used for that.

Yes, they can block the effects of adrenaline release that comes from being chronically stressed. Can also be used to block acute adrenaline release associated with "fight or flight" syndrome, that is unhealthy and uncomfortable unless you really are being chased by a bear. Actors can use them to block performance anxiety, others use them before giving speeches, etc.

65 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:52:44pm

re: #63 Conservative Moonbat

C-PTSD is a little different

Thank goodness I had a shrink during my marriage--and that I booted Dickhead out the door after a few months--or I'd be coping with that.

66 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:53:11pm

re: #4 exelwood

Any word if he'll be able to keep his position after the determination he broke the law? How about the IPCC head, will his roll?

The Wave Rider called me from his psychic bubble within the vortex of stardust to tell you that it's time for dinner and you should probably stop making yourself look silly on the internet.

67 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:53:18pm

re: #62 Varek Raith

Trust me, they work for anxiety disorders. Very well, in my case.
:)

Like I said above, it appears that they are being used for that purpose. I was wrong, or at least the last lacking information I had from my doctor is not as current as the information you and other had.

68 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:53:52pm

re: #66 WindUpBird

The Wave Rider called me from his psychic bubble within the vortex of stardust to tell you that it's time for dinner and you should probably stop making yourself look silly on the internet.

Who is the 'Wave Rider'?

69 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54:17pm

re: #51 MandyManners

PTSD? That's caused my intense, sudden trauma such as being taken hostage, being raped, being in a plane crash or car wreck.

Or having your life threatened multiple times, without knowing where and when it is coming.

70 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:54:51pm

re: #69 b_sharp

Or having your life threatened multiple times, without knowing where and when it is coming.

Combat? Oh, yes.

71 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:56:20pm

re: #54 captdiggs

He's not the only one.

Timothy Ball, a former climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg in Canada, has received five deaths threats by email since raising concerns about the degree to which man was affecting climate change.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

The Internet has given a voice to nuts.

72 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:56:30pm

re: #69 b_sharp

One healthy treatment for this form of stress is extended sessions at the shooting range, with a trainer and a timer. Then if some fool tries to make good on a threat the stress therapy helps you deal with him too.

73 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:57:02pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

And if you continued to read the back and forth I was having, it is apparent the last information I had from my doctor was not as current as "today's" information. I was put on beta blockers 15 years ago, and some of what I was discussing was explained to me differently than the way these drugs apparently are used today.

Oh, and thanks for the comment, fuck you too.

74 Conservative Moonbat  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:57:12pm

re: #70 MandyManners

Combat? Oh, yes.

I'd think just receiving multiple death threats a week could do it, particularly when you're a bookish university professor type who isn't used to having one's life placed in danger on a regular basis.

75 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:57:58pm

re: #56 MandyManners

I'm not taling about anxiety. I'm talking about repressed memories of the violent event that produce flash-backs that cause panic attacks that send you falling to the floor, thinking you're dying.

PTSD is a severe anxiety disorder.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

76 freetoken  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:58:02pm

re: #71 b_sharp

The Internet has given a voice to nuts.

One of the more disturbing things about the internet is that it has become a "force multiplier" for all sorts of antisocial/sociopathic behavior.

77 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:59:09pm

re: #68 Varek Raith

Who is the 'Wave Rider'?

Some say he is descended from angels

Others believe he is himself an angel. He strides between worlds and dimensions as one would walk through a doorway. He is a guardian of the multiverse, who sends his energies through the eather to guide us, and teach us of what may yet be.

78 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:59:14pm

re: #76 freetoken

One of the more disturbing things about the internet is that it has become a "force multiplier" for all sorts of antisocial/sociopathic behavior.

And given massive momentum to out right lies going virtual and being accepted as actual fact.

79 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:59:24pm

re: #76 freetoken

That is very true. I have a father in law who makes a very good case for the internet being a net negative. Frankly he sounds a lot like Hitchens going after the Church.

80 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 2:59:47pm

re: #77 WindUpBird

Some say he is descended from angels

Others believe he is himself an angel. He strides between worlds and dimensions as one would walk through a doorway. He is a guardian of the multiverse, who sends his energies through the eather to guide us, and teach us of what may yet be.

But mostly it's supernatural bullshit.

81 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:00:27pm

re: #68 Varek Raith

Who is the 'Wave Rider'?

But actually, he was a kook who called into the Art bell show in the 90's, insisting he was a time traveller, and Art Bell would interview him about his crazy adventures :D

82 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:00:54pm

re: #67 Walter L. Newton

Like I said above, it appears that they are being used for that purpose. I was wrong, or at least the last lacking information I had from my doctor is not as current as the information you and other had.

I got ya. I've been trying to find out when they started using them for anxiety disorders but, my search-fu is rather bad...
:)

83 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:01:16pm

re: #80 Walter L. Newton

But mostly it's supernatural bullshit.

See above :D

A lot of boredom on grave shifts spent listening to Coast to Coast with Art Bell, it'll change a man!

84 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:01:23pm

re: #72 Rightwingconspirator

One healthy treatment for this form of stress is extended sessions at the shooting range, with a trainer and a timer. Then if some fool tries to make good on a threat the stress therapy helps you deal with him too.

Training for stress reduction, including physical preparation, helps quite a bit. That is one reason I took up MA.

85 windsagio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:01:55pm

re: #83 WindUpBird

Don't be part of the Cover-up!

THE WAVE RIDER IS REAL!

86 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:02:04pm

re: #73 Walter L. Newton

And if you continued to read the back and forth I was having, it is apparent the last information I had from my doctor was not as current as "today's" information. I was put on beta blockers 15 years ago, and some of what I was discussing was explained to me differently than the way these drugs apparently are used today.

Oh, and thanks for the comment, fuck you too.

Thanks but no thanks.

I said you "didn't know what the fuck you [were] talking about," which you just admitted to actually being the case. I suggest you deal with that instead of lashing out.

87 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:02:19pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

I just took him at his word. After Walters first post on it I looked it up.

88 Cheechako  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:02:25pm

re: #48 reine.de.tout

If I may . . .
I will also address this guy's assertion that people were sending FOI requests to divert their attention and waste their time.

This can absolutely be true. I've had to deal with requests for information that is "public" information, and invariably, the requests are overly broad and often vague, wanting things going back for a gajillion years, wanting "any and all related" (who the hell knows exactly what that means), and just for one request, you could spend several 8-hour workdays and a lot of overtime trying to collect and collate it all, because your records are maintained in a way that makes it easy for YOU to find what you need, but that does not necessarily mean it makes it easy to find the information people have asked for in the format they've asked to receive it. It's a mess.

If they got 60 request at about the same time - they would need to hire an entire staff of people to deal with that, OR put their real work to the side for awhile. As I said - it's a mess.

I whole heartedly agree. I've been on the receiving end of many FOIA requests. Most are very broad and are just a "fishing expedition" looking for that one document which can be taken out of context to prove a point.

89 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:02:44pm

re: #85 windsagio

Don't be part of the Cover-up!

THE WAVE RIDER IS REAL!

The Wave Rider has surfed oceans of time to bring us wisdom. he is a herald of starlight.

90 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:02:50pm

re: #87 Rightwingconspirator

I just took him at his word. After Walters first post on it I looked it up.

Yep, so did I.

91 windsagio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:03:56pm

re: #89 WindUpBird

I don't find your hyperbole amusing.

The Wave Rider is a victim of his condition, and tries to help us anyways.

I truly admire him for the way he can overcome his plight, and reach out to us.

92 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:04:11pm

re: #83 WindUpBird

See above :D

A lot of boredom on grave shifts spent listening to Coast to Coast with Art Bell, it'll change a man!

I saw you're comment after mine. I know who he was. Since I consider it part of my mission to discount all mystical thinking, I've done my fair share of listening to CtoC and keeping up with most of the popular paranormal topics that are "floating" around a out there. Back in the 70's I had over 1000 books on those topics.

93 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:04:41pm

re: #86 goddamnedfrank

Thanks but no thanks.

I said you "didn't know what the fuck you [were] talking about," which you just admitted to actually being the case. I suggest you deal with that instead of lashing out.

Maybe I wasn't very clear... fuck you.

94 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:04:57pm

re: #76 freetoken

One of the more disturbing things about the internet is that it has become a "force multiplier" for all sorts of antisocial/sociopathic behavior.

Thankfully, sites like this exist to counter the development of antisocial behaviour. Now it's a race to the finish - will the massive increase in communication speed and amount promote rational thought or its opposite?

95 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:05:36pm

re: #84 b_sharp

Lately I enjoy the most contemporary martial art. Defensive handgun as done by IDPA. The rest of my styles merged in really well. Some training injuries reduced my ring time long ago.

96 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:06:03pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

Yep, so did I.

And I was wrong.

97 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:06:33pm

Climategate is having its intended effect, apparently. [British] Public loses faith in climate change science after leaked emails scandal

Even the Grauniad says there needs to be better public education on climate change:

But deniers deal not in the balance of risk but the exposure of uncertainty. Tiny doubts on the periphery of the case, they say, undermine the whole story, banishing the threat.

That isn't true, but it is bad science and bad politics to counter scepticism with righteous indignation. In the long run, public confidence will be inspired more by frankness about what science cannot explain.

98 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:07:10pm

re: #79 Rightwingconspirator

That is very true. I have a father in law who makes a very good case for the internet being a net negative. Frankly he sounds a lot like Hitchens going after the Church.

Hey, I like Hitchens, especially after he's had a few. He makes the more moderate of us (atheists) look good.

99 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:08:46pm

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

I saw you're comment after mine. I know who he was. Since I consider it part of my mission to discount all mystical thinking, I've done my fair share of listening to CtoC and keeping up with most of the popular paranormal topics that are "floating" around a out there. Back in the 70's I had over 1000 books on those topics.

Okay, that is freaking fantastic. Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong decade. Not that I would have bought the line on the new age stuff, I just like that there seemed like there was so much of it out there. You go to a lot of sci-fi cons, at the room parties, all the kooky mystical thinking comes right out, all the pseudo-science, it's like a fountain.

100 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:09:02pm

re: #88 Cheechako

I whole heartedly agree. I've been on the receiving end of many FOIA requests. Most are very broad and are just a "fishing expedition" looking for that one document which can be taken out of context to prove a point.

My experience, also.
they don't know exactly what they want.
They just want any info. that can be taken out of context, as you say, to "prove" their point.

101 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:09:19pm

re: #98 b_sharp

At least he is a guy you can throw down with, win or lose and really respect.

102 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:09:27pm

re: #79 Rightwingconspirator

That is very true. I have a father in law who makes a very good case for the internet being a net negative. Frankly he sounds a lot like Hitchens going after the Church.

Did you know Ron Jeremy hates the internet and video games? :D

103 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:10:03pm

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

Maybe I wasn't very clear... fuck you.

Maybe I wasn't clear, no thanks. Please troll for ass elsewhere you poor frustrated old fool.

104 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:10:58pm

Ha! The Guardian is live-blogging the Super Bowl!

105 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:10:58pm

re: #102 WindUpBird

Well no I never knew that. But then I had not thought to ask him.

106 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:11:01pm

re: #96 Walter L. Newton

And I was wrong.

Oh, sorry if sounded like I was jumping you. That wasn't my intent.
Sorry. :)

107 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:11:44pm

re: #86 goddamnedfrank

Thanks but no thanks.

I said you "didn't know what the fuck you [were] talking about," which you just admitted to actually being the case. I suggest you deal with that instead of lashing out.

You are so funny!
I rarely see you respond to anybody without including some sort of profanity in your response.

And when someone then responds in kind to you, they are the ones "lashing out"?

You're just a barrel of laughs.

108 freetoken  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:12:18pm

re: #97 The Sanity Inspector

I don't get the "better education" part. Frankly, it hasn't done much for evolution in this country if almost half of Americans still reject the idea of origins.

There are thousands, thousands, of web sites, newspaper articles, magazine articles, videos, etc. that try to explain AGW, both its science and the consequences.

What several of the activists in AGW-mitigation are not willing to accept is human behavior. Our attention spans are very short, useful only to get us through the day of hunting/being-the-hunted. AGW-mitigation is a multi-generation proposal, and thus has a very steep hill to climb.

We humans live for today.

109 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:12:49pm

My favorite comment from the Guardian site:

Hype. Always magnificent in the States.

They're right. We sell and market amazingly.

110 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:13:20pm

re: #103 goddamnedfrank

Maybe I wasn't clear, no thanks. Please troll for ass elsewhere you poor frustrated old fool.

Come on, this isn't necessary. :/ Seemed like a pretty reasonable discussion on treatment to me...

111 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:14:03pm

re: #103 goddamnedfrank

Maybe I wasn't clear, no thanks. Please troll for ass elsewhere you poor frustrated old fool.

I think I'll stick around until you suddenly have the ability to keep me from this site. We were having a serious discussion, I had some information that was faulty, or at least old, some people pointed that out to me, I did some research (and some people also linked me to some information) and I admitted that my understanding was wrong and out of date.

You're the jerk who had to curse at me. And really, look up the concept of troll. You're the second person today who has totally misused the term and it only makes you look stupid.

And I'm not frustrated in the least, I just don't suffer fools nicely.

112 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:14:39pm

re: #106 Varek Raith

Oh, sorry if sounded like I was jumping you. That wasn't my intent.
Sorry. :)

No... no... I was confirming my mistake.

113 windsagio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:14:47pm

re: #110 WindUpBird

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

Maybe I wasn't very clear... fuck you.

Reasonable :p

Somebody needs to take a valium before he comes online.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:15:43pm

re: #113 windsagio

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

Reasonable :p

Somebody needs to take a valium before he comes online.

hey, GDFrank was using internet fighting words!

115 windsagio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:16:36pm

re: #114 WindUpBird

gotta be consistant. I hate it when Bobbie does it too >>

116 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:16:36pm

Forgive me, but Phil Jones sounds like a whiny ass little kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I suppose that someone in his position may well have attracted some whacko attacko, but I think I'll take his whiny claims that he was subjected to "death threats" or that he seriously contemplated suicide, with a little grain of salt.

117 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:16:48pm

I gotta say it's sorta strange using the tablet for this stuff. It's like I'm looking at my desk, and the desk ITSELF is the internet.

118 windsagio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:17:40pm

re: #117 WindUpBird

you need it set into the desk like the one from TRON

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:18:01pm

re: #116 Spare O'Lake

The Wave Rider would prefer to hear from the man's therapist before he renders judgment on his mental health.

120 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:18:03pm

re: #117 WindUpBird

I gotta say it's sorta strange using the tablet for this stuff. It's like I'm looking at my desk, and the desk ITSELF is the internet.

sounds pretty cool, to me.

121 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:19:09pm

re: #113 windsagio

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

Reasonable :p

Somebody needs to take a valium before he comes online.

Maybe you didn't read my little diatribe this morning, I am not sitting here all frustrated, mad, exploding or anything like that. For a matter of fact, no one has any power here to make me mad, make me embarrassed, make me feel less of myself.

I rarely get mad at anyone. I rarely raise my voice. I'm not Mr. Crankypants at all... but I play one on LGF.

And what the fuck are you down dinging my comments on Art Bell?

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:19:14pm

re: #118 windsagio

you need it set into the desk like the one from TRON

That is ACTUALLY EXACTLY how my father's desk at his law office is set up. he had a chunk cut out of the middle, mounted a flat screen monitor in it, put glass over the top. So it's a normal flat desk, but glass, so you see the monitor beneath it.

123 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:19:51pm

re: #107 reine.de.tout

You are so funny!
I rarely see you respond to anybody without including some sort of profanity in your response.

And when someone then responds in kind to you, they are the ones "lashing out"?

You're just a barrel of laughs.

I too am amused by people who love to dish it out but can't take it.

124 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:20:51pm

re: #123 Spare O'Lake

I too am amused by people who love to dish it out but can't take it.

Fuck myself. (Co-opted comment).

125 windsagio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:22:18pm

re: #121 Walter L. Newton

Oh, I'll fix that, I was gonna do something with WUB but he blew it :p


Also! Everyone says they're not mad. E.v.e.r.y.o.n.e.

I didn't say you're screaming at your keyboard, but its pretty clear you get off on being the outraged one.

126 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:22:21pm

re: #124 Walter L. Newton

Fuck myself. (Co-opted comment).

Reed Richards?
/

127 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:22:47pm

re: #122 WindUpBird

That would ruin my neck, staring down all day.

128 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:23:19pm

re: #124 Walter L. Newton

Fuck myself. (Co-opted comment).

LMAO

129 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:23:22pm

re: #125 windsagio

Oh, I'll fix that, I was gonna do something with WUB but he blew it :p

Also! Everyone says they're not mad. E.v.e.r.y.o.n.e.

I didn't say you're screaming at your keyboard, but its pretty clear you get off on being the outraged one.

Thank you Dr. Laura.

130 windsagio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:23:59pm

re: #129 Walter L. Newton


I am deeply internet-psychic.

131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:24:28pm

re: #127 Rightwingconspirator

That would ruin my neck, staring down all day.

I've been doing it since I was 5 years old, since I was a kid I've had some kind of drafting table for art. The tablet is angled at me just like a piece of paper on a drafting table would be, it's not perfectly flat. Same with my dad's machine, the screens at an angle, not parallel to the floor.

132 sattv4u2  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:26:00pm

re: #130 windsagio

I am deeply internet-psychicotic.

you almost had it right!!

//

133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:26:37pm

re: #132 sattv4u2

you almost had it right!!

//

He's deeply internet. :D

134 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:26:52pm

re: #131 WindUpBird

Aha. That makes more sense.

135 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:27:41pm

re: #134 Rightwingconspirator

Aha. That makes more sense.

Now, what starts to hurt is using the damn tablet stylus for everything. I have to remember to take breaks and use a mouse otherwise OUCH RSICRAMPS HATE FEAR PAIN

136 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:27:43pm

re: #108 freetoken

I don't get the "better education" part. Frankly, it hasn't done much for evolution in this country if almost half of Americans still reject the idea of origins.

There are thousands, thousands, of web sites, newspaper articles, magazine articles, videos, etc. that try to explain AGW, both its science and the consequences.

What several of the activists in AGW-mitigation are not willing to accept is human behavior. Our attention spans are very short, useful only to get us through the day of hunting/being-the-hunted. AGW-mitigation is a multi-generation proposal, and thus has a very steep hill to climb.

We humans live for today.

For the math-deficient, AGW is much harder to grasp, harder to reduce to its gist, than evolution. Evolution meets resistance on misguided religious grounds, not because the idea & supporting evidence are so incomprehensible.

And you're right: AGW is fraught with long range crisis scenarios, which really need to be nailed down better, if the public is going to buy into it. You can't blame people for being suspicious. "I need to turn off my lights, get rid of my car, turn the economy over to a council of collectivist wiseheads, and go live in a tree because 300 years from now the Indus River might dry up? Will you give my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren their freedom back if things are fixed by then?"

137 sattv4u2  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:27:47pm

re: #133 WindUpBird

He's deeply internet. :D

Never met a woman named net yet, but if he's "deeply" into her,,, lucky her!

138 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:28:00pm

Aha!
Game's on!
See y'all later!

139 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:29:04pm

re: #138 reine.de.tout

Aha!
Game's on!
See y'all later!

A football contest!

140 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:29:24pm

Fuck, might as well turn it on. Just because all the HD graphics will look neat.

141 The Shadow Do  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:29:38pm

Saints win the toss. Game over.

142 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:29:55pm

The game? Oh yes, the game! CYA.

143 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:30:13pm

re: #135 WindUpBird

I have yet to try a stylus. I'd like to for masking product shots.

144 Pepper Fox  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:30:33pm

Idk if it's been asked here yet, but has anyone noticed Manning not wearing his bible verse eye stuff?

145 ryannon  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:30:45pm

re: #94 b_sharp

Thankfully, sites like this exist to counter the development of antisocial behaviour. Now it's a race to the finish - will the massive increase in communication speed and amount promote rational thought or its opposite?

Whatever. As for me, I'd be happy not to have to read 'fuck you' every few dozen posts.

146 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:30:51pm

re: #141 The Shadow Do

Saints win the toss. Game over.

I think you just rocketed the cart waaayyy in front of the horse.
/;)

147 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:30:52pm

I love young horses.
Go Colts!

148 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:31:02pm

So the non tradition continues. No superbowl thread, officially.

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:32:03pm

re: #148 Rightwingconspirator

So the non tradition continues. No superbowl thread, officially.

Happy Unbirthday to us!

Phrase all Super Bowl comments in the form of a question. Like Jeopardy.

150 ryannon  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:33:05pm

re: #77 WindUpBird

Some say he is descended from angels

Others believe he is himself an angel. He strides between worlds and dimensions as one would walk through a doorway. He is a guardian of the multiverse, who sends his energies through the eather to guide us, and teach us of what may yet be.

Spice Jesus, is that you?

151 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:33:18pm

re: #144 Pepper Fox

Idk if it's been asked here yet, but has anyone noticed Manning not wearing his bible verse eye stuff?

Wrong guy. You are thinking about Tim Tebow of the Gators.

152 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:33:35pm

re: #148 Rightwingconspirator

So the non tradition continues. No superbowl thread, officially.

I think this thread is ripe for hijacking...let's go for it!

153 Pepper Fox  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:33:44pm

re: #151 Stanley Sea

Crap you're right. I don't usually keep track of this stuff lol

154 claire  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:34:20pm

re: #99 WindUpBird

You go to a lot of sci-fi cons, at the room parties, all the kooky mystical thinking comes right out, all the pseudo-science, it's like a fountain.

I don't know what a room party is, but there was a study last December that, oddly enough, Democrats believe in ghosts and that kind of kooky shit at twice the rate of Republicans. Thought that was slightly amusing.

155 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:34:28pm

re: #153 Pepper Fox

Crap you're right. I don't usually keep track of this stuff lol

We'll see if Drew needs it. Hopefully not.

156 SixDegrees  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:34:39pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Wow... I just don't have the words, can't anyone take a sensible position on anything these days without getting death threats?

No. And it's not just "these days," either. About 20 years ago, I had a letter to the editor published in our local paper, supporting animal research. The local PETA chapter took it upon themselves to spread my name and phone number to their enlightened membership, and the harassing phone calls - and death threats - began the afternoon the paper was published, and escalated over the course of the week. I got threats in the mail, too, just so there wouldn't be any doubt that they had my address as well.

A couple people got nailed and did some jail time over it, and the PETArds who instigated the problem got threatened by the authorities, but there wasn't anything worth charging them with.

Given the worldwide scope of the Internet these days, the reaction Dr. Jones has received seems, quite frankly, mild. There's certainly nothing unusual about it, nor is there anything new about it.

157 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:34:59pm

The game is on already? The Kid's at church. They're having a party after church with a big screen thing.

158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:35:12pm

re: #154 claire

I don't know what a room party is, but there was a study last December that, oddly enough, Democrats believe in ghosts and that kind of kooky shit at twice the rate of Republicans. Thought that was slightly amusing.

Room party= group of nerds hanging out at a sci-fi con, getting drunk in a hotel room. :D

And yeah, I believe it. Democrats love mysticism.

159 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:35:22pm

re: #144 Pepper Fox

Idk if it's been asked here yet, but has anyone noticed Manning not wearing his bible verse eye stuff?

What?

160 Pepper Fox  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:35:38pm

re: #159 MandyManners

What?

Sorry wrong guy. I suck with sports and names.

161 Pepper Fox  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:44:05pm

And there is the FotF ad.

162 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:44:08pm

Ok... I don't want to watch the super bowl... so, where is everyone? If someone doesn't come out of the woodwork, I'm going to start posting nice things about everyone all by myself.

163 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:44:39pm

Still here.

164 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:44:42pm

Was that Tebow ad the set up? Weird.

165 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:45:45pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

Ok... I don't want to watch the super bowl... so, where is everyone? If someone doesn't come out of the woodwork, I'm going to start posting nice things about everyone all by myself.

HAHAHAHAHAAA!

166 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:46:30pm

Another commercial set already? WTF.

167 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:47:18pm

Weak commercials so far, imho.

168 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:47:27pm

re: #165 MandyManners

HAHAHAHAHAAA!

And you too sweetie!

169 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:47:32pm

re: #143 Rightwingconspirator

Ah my photographic friend, you have triggered funny memories of my first real job, sitting at the light table, exacto in hand cutting ruby masks for 8 hours a day on ads that would appear in the Sunday circular...sigh.

170 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:48:34pm

re: #168 Walter L. Newton

And you too sweetie!

Whatever you say, schnookums.

171 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:48:54pm

Get a room!
/

172 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:48:54pm

re: #169 Jeff In Ohio

Ah my photographic friend, you have triggered funny memories of my first real job, sitting at the light table, exacto in hand cutting ruby masks for 8 hours a day on ads that would appear in the Sunday circular...sigh.

One of my early jobs was cutting ruby masks that would become the processors in NCR and Compaq computers.

173 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:49:03pm

re: #169 Jeff In Ohio

Oh man that's excruciating. Hard on the eyes, right?

174 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:51:13pm

re: #172 Walter L. Newton

One of my early jobs was cutting ruby masks that would become the processors in NCR and Compaq computers.

Interesting, some kind of photo-etch process?

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:51:35pm

The husband is peacefully settled. The game appears to be underway.

176 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:51:40pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

Ok... I don't want to watch the super bowl... so, where is everyone? If someone doesn't come out of the woodwork, I'm going to start posting nice things about everyone all by myself.

LOL!
I'm popping in & out of the thread.

177 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:52:33pm

re: #173 Rightwingconspirator

Oh man that's excruciating. Hard on the eyes, right?

Not that I know, had 20-10 till my mid 40's.

178 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:53:10pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

The husband is peacefully settled. The game appears to be underway.

Game? Kids are playing Wii golf.

179 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:54:47pm

Robin Hood again? Good luck with that Ridley.

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:55:27pm

re: #178 Jeff In Ohio

Game? Kids are playing Wii golf.

I married into a family that actually cares about the Superbowl. It's weird. My parents don't know who's playing.

181 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:56:40pm

re: #178 Jeff In Ohio

BTW-I really like the Canon 10-22 EFS lens. Had one on loan this week. Changed my whole composition game.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:57:29pm

Robin Hood is a great story, usually told really badly. I don't know why it's so hard to adapt.

183 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:59:07pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

Everyone tries to put "their" mark on it.

184 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:59:11pm

re: #174 Jeff In Ohio

Interesting, some kind of photo-etch process?

Yes. I worked for a printed circuit board design firm from in the 70's. We pioneered a partial computer aided design method for using a combination of hand drawn 2x printed circuit board layouts, Autotrol digitizing tables, punch cards, a HP 200o mainframe and a Gerber photo plotting machine.

Hand draw the artwork of the circuit board, digitize the data on to punch cards, put through the HP 2000, cut a 9inch tape, photo plotter draws layout with a precision beam of light on to film.

185 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:59:49pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

The husband is peacefully settled. The game appears to be underway.

Oh goody, I get to have a play date with the girls.

186 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:01:10pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

Robin Hood is a great story, usually told really badly. I don't know why it's so hard to adapt.

Buncha tree-huggin' rip-off artists with green hats.
;D

187 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:01:20pm

TOUCHDOWN!

188 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:01:48pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

Oh goody, I get to have a play date with the girls.

Wanna' paint each other's nails?

189 Claire  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:02:04pm

re: #164 Stanley Sea

Was that Tebow ad the set up? Weird.

Very weird. What's the message supposed to be? Disregard your doctor's orders, regardless, so what if you have a high chance of dying? Hopefully it will end well, go ahead and spin the wheel, your doctor is an idiot and your life is in God's hands anyway? Don't think this is the best example of being pro-life they could've come up with.

190 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:03:07pm

re: #181 Rightwingconspirator

For macro stuff? I'm a nut for a fixed 28. Yeah, I know, boring...but represents how the angle and depth of how the eyes see fairly accurately...I think.

191 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:03:45pm

re: #187 MandyManners

TOUCHDOWN!


:P
192 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:06:20pm

re: #191 Varek Raith

[Video]
:P

Dang. I thought we took sports seriously in this nation.

193 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:06:33pm

re: #190 Jeff In Ohio

Not for macro stuff. I went out on some landscape stuff lately. For macro I use my 28-135. It's slow but very sharp at F8

194 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:07:01pm

Im not sure I can take the excitement...

195 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:07:24pm

re: #95 Rightwingconspirator

Lately I enjoy the most contemporary martial art. Defensive handgun as done by IDPA. The rest of my styles merged in really well. Some training injuries reduced my ring time long ago.

Hapkido was my torture of choice, at least until my knees gave out. As soon as I quit, I started to gain weight. I think I'm just going to set up a bag this summer and do some home training (note to self: including some running, dammit). My days in the Dojang are long done I'm afraid.

I have no desire for guns. I figure if I get into a position where I might need a gun and have one available, like in my house, running like mad will be just as prudent.

196 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:08:52pm

Oh. New thread.

197 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:09:34pm

re: #188 MandyManners

Wanna' paint each other's nails?

Ha... Ok, a little spicy story.

I'm at work yesterday at the thrift store, what I call "almost everything is at fucking half price Saturday" and it's a zoo out on the sales floor. I'm running around, pricing used this and that, running it out to my furniture department... people are buying shit right and left... I sold 4 used couches in 3 hours, had to take each one out to the curb myself, missed 1/2 hour of my 45 minute lunch hour cause I had no one to cover me.

So, the adrenaline is really flowing, like taking cocaine or something. And I'm telling jokes in the back, the other production people are pricing other types of junk...

I put up a really big hand drawn sign... "workers unite" and sign it "Norma Rae," I'm pricing a Conair vibrator and I'm calling it a "happy stick" and I suggest to one of the other production workers that I put a label on it "works... we tried it... didn't you hear?"

A kid pushes a toy car down the toy isle and it rolls into my department, I give it a push back to the kid with my foot... the Asst. manager is walking past me and say "bet you wanted to drop kick that toy" and I said out loud "No... I wanted to drop kick that kid."

More stories to come... stay tuned.

198 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:12:36pm

re: #195 b_sharp

Ever look at escrima? The sticks take the hits, and its upper body intensive. You can save your knees from the running impact.

199 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:15:34pm

re: #184 Walter L. Newton

That's sounds cool. I'm a total process geek. Photo-etch is one of the few photographic process' I have not worked in extensively. My wife is trained as a printmaker and I've been on the look out for an etching press for a few years now.

200 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:16:47pm

re: #186 Spare O'Lake

Buncha tree-huggin' rip-off artists with green hats.
;D

But the tights, the ball grabbing tights...and nifty hats!

201 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:17:48pm

re: #108 freetoken

I don't get the "better education" part. Frankly, it hasn't done much for evolution in this country if almost half of Americans still reject the idea of origins.

snip

.

I take comfort in the realization that only half the country rejects it. We have come a very long way from the Scopes trial, and will probably continue. It's easy to despair over the state of education, but two generations ago we didn't even pretend to educate large parts of our population.

202 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:19:36pm

re: #193 Rightwingconspirator

Not for macro stuff. I went out on some landscape stuff lately. For macro I use my 28-135. It's slow but very sharp at F8

The ones currently on your website? Love the palms looking straight into the sun. We had a ton of snow this morning, and the sun was out for a breif time about 6am. I almost grabbed some holders, the spot meter and the pinhole and went out, but Sunday morning sucked me in. Would of been a good day for it. Shit, now I'm kicking myself.

203 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:20:17pm

re: #99 WindUpBird

Okay, that is freaking fantastic. Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong decade. Not that I would have bought the line on the new age stuff, I just like that there seemed like there was so much of it out there. You go to a lot of sci-fi cons, at the room parties, all the kooky mystical thinking comes right out, all the pseudo-science, it's like a fountain.

I've been an atheist since 14. I won't tell you how old I am now, but that was back in the '60s. When I went for my first Bach degree I spent time believing in all sorts of paranormal nonsense, even taking several woo classes like paranormal psychology. While taking those classes, and becoming too broke to toke, the woo started wearing a bit thin, and I eventually realized I was just exercising the woo muscles I had ignored since I rejected religion. Thankfully, after taking a number of phil classes, including formal logic and critical thinking, I was able to exorcise all of the woo. I've been proudly wooless ever since.

204 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:21:45pm

re: #102 WindUpBird

Did you know Ron Jeremy hates the internet and video games? :D

I'd say 'poor baby', but I've seen his equipment.

205 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:21:56pm

re: #131 WindUpBird

I've been doing it since I was 5 years old, since I was a kid I've had some kind of drafting table for art. The tablet is angled at me just like a piece of paper on a drafting table would be, it's not perfectly flat. Same with my dad's machine, the screens at an angle, not parallel to the floor.

Sure, but not all of us can work at a low hover.

206 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:21:57pm

re: #199 Jeff In Ohio

That's sounds cool. I'm a total process geek. Photo-etch is one of the few photographic process' I have not worked in extensively. My wife is trained as a printmaker and I've been on the look out for an etching press for a few years now.

The reason our process was so "revolutionary" was the "bump and sausage" part of the process.

Our custom designed software would take all the points on the layout and keep track of them, and it would enable the Gerber photo plotting machine to change aperture size when a circuit trace got to close to something... like going near a "pad" or going between two "pads"

If a trace got to near a pad, it would "bump" around it, if it was going through two pads, it would "sausage" down to a thinner trace for a few millimeters.

This enabled us to run traces between IC chip pads, thus cutting down on the number of board layers and being able to put a more traces on the top and bottom side of the board.

Of course, now it's all done inside a computer with CAD stuff.

207 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:25:31pm

re: #202 Jeff In Ohio

Hey thanks. It's about getting out to practice. The boring sky days are the challenging ones to pull out something good. Any idiot can get the golden gate bridge gorgeous when the fog is broken. Seeing what you can do on a hazy day at noon is hard.

208 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:26:21pm

re: #145 ryannon

Hello Ryannon--watched your Nat Geo sample. We'll put it on our Netflix queue.
It had a little of the feel of Koyaanisqatsi, without the Glass soundtrack.

209 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:26:30pm

re: #116 Spare O'Lake

Forgive me, but Phil Jones sounds like a whiny ass little kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I suppose that someone in his position may well have attracted some whacko attacko, but I think I'll take his whiny claims that he was subjected to "death threats" or that he seriously contemplated suicide, with a little grain of salt.

Why? The RW loons love to send love letters full of threats.

210 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:26:47pm

re: #206 Walter L. Newton

We did the mother board layout for the first IBM personal computer (PC-1), the first Compaq and the first NCR. We did the design for the first TI home computer (idiots wanted all artwork designed at 3x, we had to modify the software to scale all that, all our work was scaled at mainly 2x or multiples of). We also used ruby for making photo masks for chips.

211 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:27:40pm

re: #149 WindUpBird

Happy Unbirthday to us!

Phrase all Super Bowl comments in the form of a question. Like Jeopardy.

What is a SuperBowl without the Steelers?

212 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:28:40pm

re: #211 Decatur Deb

What is a SuperBowl without the Steelers?

Interesting for once?

213 Stuart Leviton  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:30:21pm

re: #63 Conservative Moonbat

C-PTSD is a little different

Thank you for your posting on C-PTSD. I had never heard of it, and yet that is what I have been trying to describe all of my life. I am glad the medical profession is finally catching up and might be able to help me although I am starting to get old. Living in semi-poverty as well. Tons of worries how I'll survive past May or June when my money runs out. But I drift -- out of happiness that the world is now more able to listen and understand. Thank you Mandy and SFZ and others for your postings as well.

Am slowly trying to take in the info from your postings. Believe it or not, the posting has led me to finally watch the film gaslight re its connection with the term "gaslighting".
But I just wanted to thank all again for your postings and your help.

214 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:31:06pm

re: #154 claire

I don't know what a room party is, but there was a study last December that, oddly enough, Democrats believe in ghosts and that kind of kooky shit at twice the rate of Republicans. Thought that was slightly amusing.

That's because we've seen our party die several times, yet it walks. (Rejecting ideas reflexively is also not our default position.)

215 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:34:07pm

re: #207 Rightwingconspirator

Hey thanks. It's about getting out to practice. The boring sky days are the challenging ones to pull out something good. Any idiot can get the golden gate bridge gorgeous when the fog is broken. Seeing what you can do on a hazy day at noon is hard.

Word to that. Currently I'm constrained by a fairly specific contrast range. I can only go so far (+3 or so) in developing before the the salted print process becomes mush tonally. It'll get better when as the season comes around, so even the cloudy days will have some existing range to work with.

216 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:34:32pm

re: #136 The Sanity Inspector

For the math-deficient, AGW is much harder to grasp, harder to reduce to its gist, than evolution. Evolution meets resistance on misguided religious grounds, not because the idea & supporting evidence are so incomprehensible.

And you're right: AGW is fraught with long range crisis scenarios, which really need to be nailed down better, if the public is going to buy into it. You can't blame people for being suspicious. "I need to turn off my lights, get rid of my car, turn the economy over to a council of collectivist wiseheads, and go live in a tree because 300 years from now the Indus River might dry up? Will you give my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchi ldren their freedom back if things are fixed by then?"

Where the heck did that live in a tree meme come from? All of the activists I talk to, and most are not scientists, are looking to advanced technology to reduce CO2 output.

217 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:35:02pm

re: #210 Walter L. Newton

Thanks for that explanation. Weird to say, but it makes my blood flow a little faster.

218 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:35:57pm

re: #215 Jeff In Ohio

I look forward to seeing some of this stuff.

219 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:37:58pm

Okay, the Dodge Charger ad had me laugh out loud. Well done, Chrysler!

220 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:39:09pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

Robin Hood is a great story, usually told really badly. I don't know why it's so hard to adapt.

It's Ridley Scott movie about Russell Crowe travelling through time and space kicking ass. he kicked ass in Rome, now he's kicking ass in England. :D

221 Ghost of Insanity  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:46:21pm

re: #198 Rightwingconspirator

Ever look at escrima? The sticks take the hits, and its upper body intensive. You can save your knees from the running impact.

Nobody here teaches it.

I might try Kendo.

222 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:53:57pm

re: #214 Decatur Deb

That's because we've seen our party die several times, yet it walks. (Rejecting ideas reflexively is also not our default position.)

Also, ghosts are cool.

"During the rectification of the Vuldronaii, the Traveller came as a large, moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants they chose a new form for him--that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

223 bagua  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:54:01pm

re: #9 freetoken

At the bottom of that article you linked, at the Telegraph, it says "Research by Richard North".

I wonder if that is the same Richard North who runs the EUReferendum website (which is occasionally linked here by poster Bagua), who co-authors various AGW-science denial articles with his buddy Delingpole at the Telegraph; the same Richard North who is the father of the now-banned-at-LGF "acidtrash" (who does/did some of the website work for his father), and so on and so forth...

Hi Freetoken,

Yes that is the same Richard North who uncovered the whole Green Helmet thing and was supported for the blog awards by LGF. He is not at all buddies with Delingpole, if anything he has mocked him in the past.

224 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 5:03:01pm

re: #221 b_sharp

Kendo could be good.

225 sapphire67  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 7:30:23pm

The science of climate change should stand up to scrutiny. If Mr. Jones was confident in his results, he should never fear skepticism.

226 Millicent Islam  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 7:32:23pm

re: #225 sapphire67

The science of climate change should stand up to scrutiny. If Mr. Jones was confident in his results, he should never fear skepticism.

I don't think he 'fears' scepticism. He fears death threats.

227 Pacificlady  Sun, Feb 7, 2010 9:29:09pm

Beta blockers do just that - they block beta adrenergic receptors. Emotions such as fear and stress can produce a "fright or flight" response that can result in an increase in blood pressure and an increase in heart rate which may lead to a dysrhythmia. Beta blockers are used for hypertension, dysrhythmias, anxiety as well as other medical conditions.

Having said all that, if he is suicidal from his work, it's time for him to get another job.

228 badger1  Mon, Feb 8, 2010 5:47:21am

Gosh, someone involved in a worldwide controversy has received anonymous threats.

I am shocked.

I am sure that this has never happened before...except...wait, hasn't it happened right on this site?

229 Synesius  Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:20:35pm

Gee...it's understandable that Jones et al would be stressed by contemplating the work involved in fulfilling all those requests, but why not just post the raw data online and provide a link to fellow researchers, like most real scientists do?

Oh. i forgot. They threw it away. That might explain it.

230 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 9, 2010 9:03:01am

re: #229 Synesius

Gee...it's understandable that Jones et al would be stressed by contemplating the work involved in fulfilling all those requests, but why not just post the raw data online and provide a link to fellow researchers, like most real scientists do?

Oh. i forgot. They threw it away. That might explain it.

Did you even read any of the articles I have posted on this subject? Or are you just repeating talking points you've picked up from the denial industry?

NO DATA was "thrown away." This is simply false.

231 Mike DeGuzman  Wed, Feb 10, 2010 12:36:11am

We're getting hammered with two snow storms in Northern Virginia. Just got done with the first one last week in my area, 27 inches and right now we're expecting 10-20 inches today. Way too much snow! Federal Government closed for three days now. Where is the global warming when you need it?!


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 Frank says:

Don't mind your make-up, you'd better make your mind up.