RIP, Rep. John Murtha
US News • Views: 2,723
The news is just coming out that Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) has died at the age of 77, of complications following gall bladder surgery. Our sympathies to his family.
161 comments
1 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:48:56am |
I trust everyone who comments here knows that any disrespectful comments will be deleted.
| 2 |
_RememberTonyC Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:49:02am |
he served this country in the military and for that alone he should be praised. his deeds later in life were less heroic, but nobody can say he didn't serve his nation when called upon.
| 4 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:49:46am |
Not to be offensive or anything, but should we be associating this guy with anything in particular? His name doesn't really ring a bell to me, I mean I get that he was a congressman, I was just wondering if he'd ever done anything to make him stand out....
| 5 |
hankt Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:49:56am |
Sorry to hear that. RIP John. Didnt agree much with him but he was a veteran so thats always good in my book.
| 6 |
_RememberTonyC Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:51:03am |
re: #4 jamesfirecat
Not to be offensive or anything, but should we be associating this guy with anything in particular? His name doesn't really ring a bell to me, I mean I get that he was a congressman, I was just wondering if he'd ever done anything to make him stand out...
he brought home the pork for his district.
| 7 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:51:14am |
re: #2 _RememberTonyC
he served this country in the military and for that alone he should be praised. his deeds later in life were less heroic, but nobody can say he didn't serve his nation when called upon.
No soldier should ever have a bad obituary, because they were prepared to give their lives in defense of freedom.
| 8 |
Baier Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:51:19am |
re: #4 jamesfirecat
Not to be offensive or anything, but should we be associating this guy with anything in particular? His name doesn't really ring a bell to me, I mean I get that he was a congressman, I was just wondering if he'd ever done anything to make him stand out...
You told me you followed the last presidential race very closely....
| 9 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:51:54am |
re: #8 Baier
You told me you followed the last presidential race very closely...
When did I say that?
| 10 |
Feline Fearless Leader Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:52:08am |
re: #4 jamesfirecat
Center of a few controversies. Vietnam-vet and has held the district as a Democrat for 30+ years. That area is very conservative for the most part. So he never fit the bill on Democrats being weak on defense, and he also has been critical of US involvement in Iraq.
| 11 |
Girth Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:52:22am |
Everything else aside, he was a human being and a U.S. Marine.
RIP and sympathies to his family.
| 13 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:53:06am |
| 14 |
_RememberTonyC Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:53:25am |
re: #7 thedopefishlives
No soldier should ever have a bad obituary, because they were prepared to give their lives in defense of freedom.
that's mostly correct, but tim mcveigh and the Fort Hood shooter were also veterans and they don't deserve much praise. Murtha, of course, is not at all comparable to those two.
| 15 |
Spider Mensch Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:53:48am |
re: #4 jamesfirecat
Not to be offensive or anything, but should we be associating this guy with anything in particular? His name doesn't really ring a bell to me, I mean I get that he was a congressman, I was just wondering if he'd ever done anything to make him stand out...
he was a long time rep for a district in Pennsylvania, say what you will about him, he kept getting re elected. he knew how to get the money home, so to speak. periphally involved in abscam from years ago, but never charged with anything...Haditha marine trial..I'm not going to dance on this man's grave. You can search it and draw your own conclusions.
| 17 |
simoom Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:54:28am |
[Link: www.wjactv.com...]
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Rep. John P. Murtha died Monday at 1:18 p.m. at Virginia Hospital Center in Arlington, VA.At his bedside was his family.
Murtha, 77, was Chairman of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense.
The 19-term Democrat was the first Vietnam veteran to serve in Congress. He currently leads House Appropriations subcommittee on defense spending. Murtha has been a representative for Pennsylvania's 12th Congressional District since 1974.
A former Marine, he became the first Vietnam War combat Veteran elected to the U.S. Congress.
This past Saturday, Murtha became Pennsylvania’s longest serving member of Congress.
| 18 |
Kobyashi Maru Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:55:05am |
Wow a lot of lizards need the dictionary of political literacy. Rep Murtha was a Marine who served with valor and was elected to, and served in Congress for may years. He was tainted in an FBI sting called Abscam about 20 years ago but never charged. Other congressmen were taped stuffing money in their pockets.
He was a vocal critic of the invasion of Iraq and earned the scorn of many.
Charles, that fair enough????
| 19 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:55:14am |
re: #14 _RememberTonyC
Hence why I said "should". Some soldiers obviously do heinous things and should not earn the respect of their countrymen. Murtha was a good soldier and a well-known politician. He deserves to be remembered, not reviled (as I'm sure some will).
| 20 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:56:49am |
re: #12 Obdicut
I share your sentiment.
Served twice. As a Marine and as an elected official.
| 21 |
subsailor68 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:57:05am |
From one Vietnam era vet to another - rest in peace Mr. Murtha and thank you for your service as a Marine. My sympathy to the family. Political differences aside, I know - and believe - you have much to be proud of, and much to remember fondly.
| 22 |
_RememberTonyC Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:57:15am |
re: #19 thedopefishlives
Hence why I said "should". Some soldiers obviously do heinous things and should not earn the respect of their countrymen. Murtha was a good soldier and a well-known politician. He deserves to be remembered, not reviled (as I'm sure some will).
I guess I misunderstood your point .... sorry. Murtha will long be remembered.
| 24 |
Opal Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:59:09am |
re: #4 jamesfirecat
Murtha was a hawk who turned against the Iraq War in 2005. In doing so he attracted the ire of Jean Schmidt who called him out on the floor of the House of Representatives. She said:
"Yesterday I stood at Arlington National Cemetery attending the funeral of a young marine in my district. He believed in what we were doing is the right thing and had the courage to lay his life on the line to do it. A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through."
Truly...Murtha was no coward. Disagreeing is one thing. Calling a Marine a "coward" is beyond the pale. My own son is a Marine and took offense at the comments.
May he rest in peace, and may his family find comfort that he did his best for his district.
| 25 |
darthstar Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:59:44am |
| 26 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:01:23pm |
You can disagree with a man's politics while honoring his life & achievements in other fields.
I think we all run the risk - and I include myself in this - of allowing disagreements in one field or another to automatically translate into across-the-board opposition to a person.
| 27 |
haakondahl Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:02:24pm |
Allow me to take this occasion to say a well-rehearsed absolutely nothing at all.
| 28 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:03:23pm |
re: #26 Guanxi88
You can disagree with a man's politics while honoring his life & achievements in other fields.
I think we all run the risk - and I include myself in this - of allowing disagreements in one field or another to automatically translate into across-the-board opposition to a person.
I agree in full.
| 29 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:03:54pm |
re: #26 Guanxi88
I think part of the problem is that his vocal opposition to the Iraq War stirred a lot of deep emotional resentment against his political views. He made a lot of very charged statements. It is tough to separate that rhetoric from the man himself, but if any can do so, I think we can.
| 30 |
lawhawk Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:06:16pm |
RIP Murtha. I certainly didn't agree with his politics and preferences and his behavior at times bordered on criminal, but he was considered a loyal Democrat and was one of Pelosi's biggest backers. It will be interesting to see how the Democrat leadership adjusts to this sad development.
| 31 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:08:32pm |
re: #30 lawhawk
Wow, don't strain yourself being nice or anything.
| 32 |
Locker Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:11:21pm |
Good thoughts and prayers to his family. Serving the public, regardless of party, is a worthwhile occupation and I, for one, appreciate his service.
| 33 |
samsgran1948 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:11:48pm |
Does Pennsylvania appoint someone to finish out his term, or will there be a special election?
| 34 |
Lee Coller Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:12:51pm |
re: #33 samsgran1948
Special election. There is no provision for appointing a representative.
| 35 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:13:59pm |
re: #33 samsgran1948
Does Pennsylvania appoint someone to finish out his term, or will there be a special election?
I think they appoint, as Jon Stewart pointed out Massachusetts had special rules set up to prevent Mitt Romney from appointing someone conservative to fill Kerry's seat when he ran became elect President in 2004.
And boy what a smart move that was for us democrats wasn't it?
| 36 |
loubob57 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:14:06pm |
RIP John, condolences to the Murtha family.
He may have said some things I don't think he should have, but he did serve his country.
| 37 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:14:32pm |
oh joy, they're allowing comments over at foxnews.com for this one
| 38 |
RadicalModerate Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:14:37pm |
| 39 |
StillAMarine Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:15:20pm |
John Murtha, thank you for your service. May the Powers above rest you in peace.
| 40 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:15:44pm |
| 41 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:16:05pm |
re: #38 RadicalModerate
It was to be expected, however, this isn't the thread for this kind of thing. That, and I believe direct links to there are frowned upon.
| 42 |
subsailor68 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:16:07pm |
re: #34 Lee Coller
Special election. There is no provision for appointing a representative.
Hi Lee. In this case, that's kind of a shame, since house members are all up for re-election in November. The expense of a special election to fill a seat for about ten months or so is too bad in an economy like ours.
| 43 |
Lee Coller Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:16:14pm |
re: #35 jamesfirecat
I think they appoint, as Jon Stewart pointed out Massachusetts had special rules set up to prevent Mitt Romney from appointing someone conservative to fill Kerry's seat when he ran became elect President in 2004.
And boy what a smart move that was for us democrats wasn't it?
Kerry was in the Senate, the US Constitution allows the state to decide how to fill a senate seat until the next election, for Representatives, there has to be a special election.
| 44 |
RadicalModerate Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:16:26pm |
| 45 |
Feline Fearless Leader Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:16:44pm |
| 46 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:17:19pm |
re: #41 Varek Raith
It was to be expected
, however, this isn't the thread for this kind of thing. That, and I believe direct links to there are frowned upon.
Eh, scratch that. It's not my place to say that. Sorry!
| 47 |
RadicalModerate Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:18:09pm |
re: #41 Varek Raith
Yah, probably shouldn't have hotlinked it, but its so new there's no cache yet.
You can kill the link if desired on both that and my "fixed" post, Charles.
| 48 |
haakondahl Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:18:29pm |
re: #30 lawhawk
RIP Murtha. I certainly didn't agree with his politics and preferences and his behavior at times bordered on criminal, but he was considered a loyal Democrat and was one of Pelosi's biggest backers. It will be interesting to see how the Democrat leadership adjusts to this sad development.
Indeed. While his numerical impact on the House majority may not be felt as keenly as the loss of the supermajority in the Senate, the question of supercession of admirable deeds by those of another sort entirley may prove to be a longer-lasting legacy, particularly in the case of the late Representative Murtha, may he Rest In Peace. I hope that he was not overly troubled by reflections of Haditha in his final moments. I would certainly wish better on a representative of his reputation.
| 49 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:18:32pm |
re: #40 Charles
I fail to see how people can feel right about celebrating the death of a life-long public servant. This man gave his entire life in service to his country. What have they ever done for it?
| 50 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:19:17pm |
re: #40 Charles
"I hope he was saved and on praying ground. He has now gone on to his eternal reward to one of two places as will we all. Without saying anything bad about the deceased, now is the time for the good people of Pennsylvania to put a Constitutional 10th Amendment proponent in the office. I hope that they rise to the occasion."
10Th Amendment proponent means someone who will say that the government can't force the state to give its occupants healthcare doesn't it?
They say such horrible things so nicely....
| 51 |
haakondahl Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:21:39pm |
| 52 |
RadicalModerate Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:22:05pm |
AllahPundit over on HotAir has posted about Murtha's death also, and the commenters there are in a celebratory mood as well.
| 53 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:22:26pm |
oh, were just god-fearing red-blooded americans who think human life is so sacred and needs our protection... oh hey, look, someone we don't like died, woohooooo!!!
-conservatives
| 54 |
Girth Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:22:42pm |
To the Freepers and everyone else celebrating this:
You are celebrating the death of a U.S. Marine, a Vietnam veteran, and a member of the House of Representatives. Full stop. You have become that which you have so despised and should be ashamed of yourselves. I loathe you.
| 55 |
Ben Hur Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:23:03pm |
re: #52 RadicalModerate
AllahPundit over on HotAir has posted about Murtha's death also, and the commenters there are in a celebratory mood as well.
Examples?
| 56 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:23:35pm |
re: #37 SpaceJesus
oh joy, they're allowing comments over at foxnews.com for this one
I take it that the de mortuis rule is NOT in effect over there?
| 57 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:24:37pm |
re: #38 RadicalModerate
No offense to you, but can we take this down? I'd just as not have it on the scroll at LGF. I can imagine exactly what they're saying.
| 58 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:24:40pm |
re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist
I take it that the de mortuis rule is NOT in effect over there?
Not for people they hate/disagree with.
| 60 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:25:07pm |
re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist
I take it that the de mortuis rule is NOT in effect over there?
oh, they're just beside themselves with grief over there, and their outpouring of respectful heart-felt condolences just brings a tear to my eye.
| 61 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:26:07pm |
re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist
No offense to you, but can we take this down? I'd just as not have it on the scroll at LGF. I can imagine exactly what they're saying.
I think that there are times we'd all like to close our eyes to the horrors of the world, and yet we need to be exposed to them so we know what we are dealing with.
| 62 |
Ben Hur Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:26:17pm |
re: #52 RadicalModerate
AllahPundit over on HotAir has posted about Murtha's death also, and the commenters there are in a celebratory mood as well.
Examples?
| 63 |
Jack Burton Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:26:43pm |
re: #49 thedopefishlives
I fail to see how people can feel right about celebrating the death of a life-long public servant. This man gave his entire life in service to his country. What have they ever done for it?
I fail to see how anyone can ever celebrate the death of anyone, even maniacal mass murderers, criminals, or tyrants (obviously not talking about Murtha here). Sometimes they need to be taken out, but death is never something to celebrate in this manner.
When someone dies who I didn't agree with or like, such as Michael Jackson, Ted Kennedy, and now Murtha... "if you cant say anything nice, say RIP, wish the family well, and STFU" is my rule.
| 64 |
haakondahl Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:27:50pm |
re: #61 jamesfirecat
I think that there are times we'd all like to close our eyes to the horrors of the world, and yet we need to be exposed to them so we know what we are dealing with.
I certainly hope that there is some degree of arch, dry humor I have not noticed in your post.
| 66 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:28:35pm |
re: #24 Opal
Truly...Murtha was no coward. Disagreeing is one thing. Calling a Marine a "coward" is beyond the pale. My own son is a Marine and took offense at the comments.
Repeated for emphasis and agreement.
| 67 |
Ericus58 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:28:44pm |
747-8 preparing for takeoff:
[Link: videowm.boeing.com...]
| 68 |
idioma Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:28:50pm |
I didn't agree with the guy's politics, but I hope his family's grief is short.
| 69 |
Silvergirl Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:29:01pm |
It's also good behavior to stop short of wishing death on the living because you don't care for their politics.
| 70 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:29:13pm |
It would be a good time to reflect on our shared humanity, and the gift that is life.
| 71 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:29:34pm |
re: #64 haakondahl
I certainly hope that there is some degree of arch, dry humor I have not noticed in your post.
Well I agree with Ben Hur (or at least what I'll admit I'm imagining his point to be) that we can't be sure of how "X" (crazy/happy/whatever) these people are till we see what they have to say in their own words.
| 72 |
RadicalModerate Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:30:18pm |
re: #62 Ben Hur
Examples?
Some people are uncomfortable about the freeper quotes I put in the thread asking they get taken out (I'm leaving that up to Charles whether he wants to kill them). In light of the discomfort, don't think I want to stir up the Lizards any more than I already have.
| 73 |
Ben Hur Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:31:33pm |
re: #72 RadicalModerate
Some people are uncomfortable about the freeper quotes I put in the thread asking they get taken out (I'm leaving that up to Charles whether he wants to kill them). In light of the discomfort, don't think I want to stir up the Lizards any more than I already have.
No.
That's not my point.
Why don't you show examples of Freeper shit at HotAir.
You claimed that similar sh*t was going on at Hot Air, without any examples or links.
| 74 |
Lidane Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:35:30pm |
Didn't know much about Rep. Murtha apart from what I'd read about him over the past few years, but he seemed like a decent enough person.
Condolences to his friends and family. May he rest in peace.
| 75 |
RadicalModerate Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:35:45pm |
re: #73 Ben Hur
No.
That's not my point.
Why don't you show examples of Freeper shit at HotAir.
You claimed that similar sh*t was going on at Hot Air, without any examples or links.
Here's the URL to the comments - not gonna hotlink it though.
[Link: hotair.com...]
| 77 |
Ben Hur Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:38:21pm |
re: #71 jamesfirecat
Well I agree with Ben Hur (or at least what I'll admit I'm imagining his point to be) that we can't be sure of how "X" (crazy/happy/whatever) these people are till we see what they have to say in their own words.
I don't know what that means.
My point is simple.
If you're going to say that so and so is saying something, show it.
The more Freeper shit we post the better.
I've seen minimal to ZERO of that shit on Hot Air.
There will be time later to debate his political legacy.
I also find the Princess Diana-ish spasm competition a bit over the top.
| 78 |
Ben Hur Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:38:56pm |
re: #75 RadicalModerate
Here's the URL to the comments - not gonna hotlink it though.
[Link: hotair.com...]
Thank you, I've been there for a while.
That's why I thought your comment was ridiculous.
| 79 |
shutdown Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:39:47pm |
re: #38 RadicalModerate
Well, I had a look at the comments over at free republic, and while there certainly are many that step outside the bounds of good taste, they are in general quite restrained; the preponderance of comments seem to stick to offering prayers, condolences to the family and a simple RIP.
| 80 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:42:03pm |
re: #77 Ben Hur
I don't know what that means.
My point is simple.
If you're going to say that so and so is saying something, show it.
The more Freeper shit we post the better.
I've seen minimal to ZERO of that shit on Hot Air.
There will be time later to debate his political legacy.
I also find the Princess Diana-ish spasm competition a bit over the top.
The point that I imagined you were making was that if somebody says something, they should provide some proof of it rather than just letting it hang there to be taken for granted.
That line up with your thought process pretty well?
| 81 |
Ben Hur Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:43:01pm |
re: #80 jamesfirecat
The point that I imagined you were making was that if somebody says something, they should provide some proof of it rather than just letting it hang there to be taken for granted.
That line up with your thought process pretty well?
Yes. Thanks.
Sorry.
| 82 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:43:41pm |
re: #81 Ben Hur
Yes. Thanks.
Sorry.
Its okay, I probably didn't do the best job explaining myself in my first post, that's why I made sure at the very least to mention how I was only trying to guess at what was on your mind.
| 83 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:45:32pm |
RIP to an old school civil servant. Prayers for his family as this probably came as a shock.
| 84 |
BunnyThief Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:47:01pm |
I have said a great deal of things about Murtha's conduct over the past few years. Things that would be considered "disrespectful" at the very least.
I stand by every single one of them.
On this site, I will not repeat them. Out of respect for Charles' declaration.
But I still stand by every thing I have ever said about him and his conduct over the past few years. I regret not a single one, and never will.
But on this day, in this venue, I will not repeat them.
| 85 |
SixDegrees Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:47:02pm |
Damn. 6-10 inches of snow predicted here by Wednesday morning.
I feel a snow day coming on.
| 86 |
haakondahl Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:47:56pm |
Hopefully, idiot comments on the internet do not constitute anybody's idea of the "horrors of the world". How about having a good friend shot in the f*cking head while politicians back home denigrate the troops in the field?
| 87 |
nc gray Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:50:25pm |
John Murtha was wrong on Haditha and he may well be proved wrong on the Iraq war, but it was his criticism of President Bush that began the swing toward the surge.
He brought federal dollars back to district and some of that may have been accomplished in a questionable fashion, however, he volunteered to go to Vietnam after already serving over a decade in the Marine Corp. That alone makes him a hero.
RIP
| 88 |
RadicalModerate Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:50:32pm |
re: #77 Ben Hur
I don't know what that means.
My point is simple.
If you're going to say that so and so is saying something, show it.
The more Freeper shit we post the better.
I've seen minimal to ZERO of that shit on Hot Air.
There will be time later to debate his political legacy.
I also find the Princess Diana-ish spasm competition a bit over the top.
I've counted six posts so far that I would consider tasteless over in the HotAir comments.
Among them:
"Now Teddy Kennedy has a roommate"
"This should help lower the national debt"
"His death was a win for democracy"
I'm not counting the "I won't speak ill of the dead" posts either...
| 89 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:50:36pm |
re: #86 haakondahl
Hopefully, idiot comments on the internet do not constitute anybody's idea of the "horrors of the world". How about having a good friend shot in the f*cking head while politicians back home denigrate the troops in the field?
Okay I'll admit I probably went too far.
Would calling this kind of thing
"The ugliness of the American political system" work better for you?
| 90 |
haakondahl Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:52:22pm |
re: #89 jamesfirecat
Okay I'll admit I probably went too far.
Would calling this kind of thing
"The ugliness of the American political system" work better for you?
Sorry. My fault. That was inappropriate.
| 91 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:53:22pm |
Well I didn't agree with his stance on Iraq very much at all. But this is really sad news indeed. My respect and condolences to his family.
And I'm completely unsurprised that right-wing nutjobs are celebrating. What the extremes don't understand is that there can be legitimate, debatable, differences and different points of view in policy and government debates. That is what makes our system so strong. We always need a loyal opposition.
We don't wish death on the loyal opposition, nor should we ever. We may disagree, we may fight about things with words, but we should never, ever, want them to suffer or die. That is not politics - it is barbarism.
I, for one, choose to live in a non-barbaric country.
| 92 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:54:35pm |
re: #91 Summer
I, for one, choose to live in a non-barbaric country.
It's a choice we all like to kid ourselves that we can make. But we can't.
| 93 |
shutdown Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:54:50pm |
re: #84 BunnyThief
I have said a great deal of things about Murtha's conduct over the past few years. Things that would be considered "disrespectful" at the very least.
I stand by every single one of them.
On this site, I will not repeat them. Out of respect for Charles' declaration.
But I still stand by every thing I have ever said about him and his conduct over the past few years. I regret not a single one, and never will.
But on this day, in this venue, I will not repeat them.
This is the most ridiculous and infantile post I have seen in quite a while. Standing in a room and loudly declaring all the things you are not going to say is not the same as simply shutting the fuck up.
So, shut the fuck up.
| 94 |
simoom Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:55:15pm |
re: #78 Ben Hur
Thank you, I've been there for a while.
Try the headline thread - it has some pretty nasty comments. In the interest of not derailing this thread I won't excerpt them though.
You're right though, the majority of the comments are respectful.
| 95 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:55:39pm |
re: #92 Guanxi88
It's a choice we all like to kid ourselves that we can make. But we can't.
We can, however, choose how we ourselves behave.
| 96 |
shutdown Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:55:51pm |
re: #91 Summer
Well I didn't agree with his stance on Iraq very much at all. But this is really sad news indeed. My respect and condolences to his family.
And I'm completely unsurprised that right-wing nutjobs are celebrating. What the extremes don't understand is that there can be legitimate, debatable, differences and different points of view in policy and government debates. That is what makes our system so strong. We always need a loyal opposition.
We don't wish death on the loyal opposition, nor should we ever. We may disagree, we may fight about things with words, but we should never, ever, want them to suffer or die. That is not politics - it is barbarism.
I, for one, choose to live in a non-barbaric country.
Bunnythief: This is how it's done. Take note.
| 97 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:56:22pm |
re: #90 haakondahl
Sorry. My fault. That was inappropriate.
Its okay I probably went too far as well.
My main point was that while we don't condone such talk here at LGF we need to be aware of just how crazy the crazies can get sometimes, carefully controlled exposure to serve as a vaccination if you will...
| 98 |
allegro Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:56:40pm |
My most heartfelt condolences go out to Congressman Murtha's family, friends, and constituents. His loss will be felt by the many who loved him and benefited directly and indirectly from his life and service.
| 99 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 12:58:17pm |
re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist
We can, however, choose how we ourselves behave.
It's true enough. While it is so that one can yet live as a civilized human being even in the midst of barbarism, there's not point deluding ourselves about any effect that may or may not have on those around us. I point this out to myself as much as to others, as reminder of the limitations to which we are all subject, and to encourage a reasonable set of very minimal expectations for the world and those who dwell in it.
| 100 |
shutdown Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:01:28pm |
re: #99 Guanxi88
It's true enough. While it is so that one can yet live as a civilized human being even in the midst of barbarism, there's not point deluding ourselves about any effect that may or may not have on those around us. I point this out to myself as much as to others, as reminder of the limitations to which we are all subject, and to encourage a reasonable set of very minimal expectations for the world and those who dwell in it.
If you conduct yourself according to a set of universally applicable principles of decency and humanity, the example may inspire or at least be noticed by others. It all depends on how you want to think about yourself and be remembered by others.
(Sure I know it is a bit trite. But true, nonetheless)
| 101 |
Baier Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:03:18pm |
re: #100 imp_62
If you conduct yourself according to a set of universally applicable principles of decency and humanity, the example may inspire or at least be noticed by others. It all depends on how you want to think about yourself and be remembered by others.
(Sure I know it is a bit trite. But true, nonetheless)
Is there a link to the universally acceptable principles you're talking about?
/
I don't think many people see themselves as unprincipled.
| 102 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:06:20pm |
re: #5 hankt
Sorry to hear that. RIP John. Didnt agree much with him but he was a veteran so thats always good in my book.
RIP, & posthumous thanks for his service.
| 103 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:07:55pm |
re: #101 Baier
Is there a link to the universally acceptable principles you're talking about?
/I don't think many people see themselves as unprincipled.
You could do worse than starting with these.
| 104 |
Semper Fi Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:08:22pm |
John Murtha stood up for his beliefs when in uniform and later as Rep. John Murtha. Can't ask any more than that. Thank you, John.
| 105 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:09:14pm |
*shudder* My sister had gall bladder surgery a couple of months ago. No complications, thank God.
| 106 |
Kragar Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:09:16pm |
re: #101 Baier
Is there a link to the universally acceptable principles you're talking about?
/I don't think many people see themselves as unprincipled.
Of course my principles might not quite match your principles.
| 107 |
BunnyThief Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:09:56pm |
re: #93 imp_62
Sorry, imp, but my "don't speak ill of the dead" does NOT mean "canonize the deceased and whitewash their past." If one had not heard anything about Murtha before today -- such as, say, jamesfirecat -- then an utterly one-sided impression is being conveyed.
I will not speak ill of Murtha here and now. But to pretend that such sentiments did not exist is dishonest.
| 109 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:12:17pm |
re: #108 Spare O'Lake
John Murtha was a textbook Democrat.
Wasn't he rather fiercely anti-abortion? (Taken some time to read up on him at Wikipedia)
| 110 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:12:17pm |
re: #107 BunnyThief
Why say a damn thing, though?
All you're doing is "I won't say anything bad about Murtha, but I will say there are bad things to be said about him!"
You're playing a juvenile semantic game.
| 111 |
Baier Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:14:42pm |
re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Of course my principles might not quite match your principles.
I don't know, my creed is:
vox quod subterlabor , sermo magnus laxus
(cry and escape, talk big later)
| 112 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:16:26pm |
Fox News reports that Palin's hand notes for pre-approved questions shows her brilliance and superiority to Obama.....
| 113 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:16:30pm |
re: #35 jamesfirecat
I think they appoint, as Jon Stewart pointed out Massachusetts had special rules set up to prevent Mitt Romney from appointing someone conservative to fill Kerry's seat when he ran became elect President in 2004.
And boy what a smart move that was for us democrats wasn't it?
In Georgia, they split the difference. When Republican John Linder died in office, the Democratic governor appointed the most conservative Democrat available, Zell Miller, to serve out his term.
| 114 |
BunnyThief Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:17:08pm |
Obdicut, I didn't care for people like jamesfirecat not knowing that there were reasons to dislike Murtha's actions. There wasn't a single hint of them in any of the comments. I thought I'd take the opportunity to "speak truth to power," in a sense.
So there might have been a bit of ego there, but I wasn't trying to go juvenile.. had I wished to do so, I'd have dropped a few key words as Google-bait. Several come to mind.
| 115 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:19:01pm |
re: #111 Baier
Mine is "Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum efflugit."
(I have a catapult. If you don't give me all of your money, I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)
Not my original, stole it from somewhere.
| 116 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:19:09pm |
re: #113 The Sanity Inspector
In Georgia, they split the difference. When Republican John Linder died in office, the Democratic governor appointed the most conservative Democrat available, Zell Miller, to serve out his term.
All I know about in Georgia can be summed up thusly....
Georgia is the only state!
Requiring that candidate!
Garner fifty percent plus one!
Devil in the house of the rising sun!
Top two folks get 28 days!
Further fulling voter melees!
One final vote and the winner is set!
Looks like somebody lost his bet!
| 117 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:20:03pm |
re: #114 BunnyThief
Oh lord. Who were you speaking "Truth to power" to, exactly, you brave, brave hero?
| 118 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:20:14pm |
re: #108 Spare O'Lake
John Murtha was a textbook Democrat.
I'm gonna' disagree with you here. I know--and, know of--many Democrats his age who did not say the things of, and do the things about, our military that he said and did.
| 119 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:21:46pm |
re: #114 BunnyThief
Obdicut, I didn't care for people like jamesfirecat not knowing that there were reasons to dislike Murtha's actions. There wasn't a single hint of them in any of the comments. I thought I'd take the opportunity to "speak truth to power," in a sense.
So there might have been a bit of ego there, but I wasn't trying to go juvenile.. had I wished to do so, I'd have dropped a few key words as Google-bait. Several come to mind.
Umm, there were plenty of people who mentioned how he got tied up to a certain degree in the entire Abscam thing.
And if you want to privately give me the dirt on this guy my email address is Jamesfirecat@verizon.net
| 120 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:21:58pm |
re: #112 Killgore Trout
Fox News reports that Palin's hand notes for pre-approved questions shows her brilliance and superiority to Obama...
[Video]
Ain't she sweet?
| 122 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:25:24pm |
re: #71 jamesfirecat
Well I agree with Ben Hur (or at least what I'll admit I'm imagining his point to be) that we can't be sure of how "X" (crazy/happy/whatever) these people are till we see what they have to say in their own words.
I saw one or two gallant RIPs, but they are highly unrepresentative, unfortunately. The next nicest thing is "I'm supposed to be sad about this?"
| 123 |
ulmsey123 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:26:32pm |
To malign a man who has just died is low and unjust.
He has ended his personal journey through this life and has most likely contributed much.
The good and the bad has already been debated. History will make it's verdict.
A man has died and the world is a sadder place for it.
Of course, all the negative comments out there applauding his death will be seen as some sort of proof that the fundamentals of conservatism, and/or the conservative leadership is in error.
Politicizing the comments of idiots and using those comments as misplaced ammunition is all bad form.
| 124 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:26:47pm |
re: #118 MandyManners
I'm gonna' disagree with you here. I know--and, know of--many Democrats his age who did not say the things of, and do the things about, our military that he said and did.
You are of course correct.
I was just trying to say something nice...I guess I failed.
| 125 |
PhillyPretzel Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:28:16pm |
I agree with Charles. Rest in Peace, John Murtha.
| 127 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:32:11pm |
big John is gone...a tough guy in a fight, and I'd share my foxhole and then my beer with him...politics isn't everything by a long shot
| 129 |
CJDate Mon, Feb 8, 2010 2:08:39pm |
re: #33 samsgran1948
Does Pennsylvania appoint someone to finish out his term, or will there be a special election?
House vacancies are almost always filled by a special election, unless the vacancy occurs "close enough" to a general election, in which case the seat remains vacant.
Senate vacancies are, by default (because of the 17th Amendment,) filled by gubernatorial appointment unless the state has explicitly chosen another method.
| 131 |
Perplexed Mon, Feb 8, 2010 2:41:54pm |
John Murtha is dead.
In further news beer is good for the bones.
Water is still wet.
Snow is cold.
| 132 |
shutdown Mon, Feb 8, 2010 2:51:15pm |
re: #112 Killgore Trout
Fox News reports that Palin's hand notes for pre-approved questions shows her brilliance and superiority to Obama...
[Video]
She needed to write down these words to remember them? Dope.
| 133 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Feb 8, 2010 2:59:29pm |
Murtha represented my grandparents' hometown in Pennsylvania. I think that my grandfather even had a friend who with Murtha. Believe I read that Murtha was the first Vietnam vet elected to Congress. My condolences to his family. I lost the same grandfather around this time last year. Those on those other sites spitting on this man need to remember that he was a father, grandfather before he was a politician.
| 134 |
avanti Mon, Feb 8, 2010 2:59:49pm |
| 135 |
Mike DeGuzman Mon, Feb 8, 2010 3:02:14pm |
Didn't like his politics and what he did in Congress. But I want to thank him for his military service especially in Vietnam. My sincere condolences to his family and friends.
| 136 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 3:10:57pm |
| 137 |
TedStriker Mon, Feb 8, 2010 3:31:15pm |
re: #126 BunnyThief
In deference to what seems to be the vox populi here, I will comment no more on this thread.
And you're an ass...
I didn't agree with his politics, but I respect his service to our country as a Marine. RIP Representative Murtha...godspeed to you and condolences to your family.
| 138 |
jayzee Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:22:43pm |
| 139 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:27:46pm |
re: #138 jayzee
I got no problem making fun of fox, but some of those jokes seem to be anti Jewish and anti Israel in my honest opinion.
Umm... which ones?
| 140 |
jayzee Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:45:05pm |
| 141 |
jayzee Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:49:21pm |
re: #140 jayzee
To be more specific-the "carpentry accident" seems to mock Pal-"work accidents", and the calling Jesus-"infidel" seems to be an attempt show a pro Jewish bias on behalf of Fox.
| 142 |
Dr. Shalit Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:50:18pm |
Everyone -
Unlike Caesar, may the good he has done be remembered, the not so good, interred with his bones. That is all. -S-
| 143 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:50:19pm |
re: #140 jayzee
The Jesus ones.
Explain to me how they're anti-jewish and especially anti-Israel because I'm just not seeing it...
| 144 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:50:40pm |
re: #143 jamesfirecat
Explain to me how they're anti-jewish and especially anti-Israel because I'm just not seeing it...
Whoops my bad you already did that, sorry.
| 145 |
jayzee Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:52:36pm |
re: #144 jamesfirecat
Whoops my bad you already did that, sorry.
No problem. That's my take on them anyway.
-and to the point of the thread, my condolences to the Murtha family. I am sorry for their loss.
| 146 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:55:52pm |
re: #141 jayzee
To be more specific-the "carpentry accident" seems to mock Pal-"work accidents", and the calling Jesus-"infidel" seems to be an attempt show a pro Jewish bias on behalf of Fox.
The calling of "Jesus" infidel makes sense if you imagine it as the 33AD version of Fox, the way that they can be non to good on other matters (Terrorists Fist Jab). So are you going to argue that the fact that they use "infedel's last meal" to say that "infedel" is how they feel about all Jews?
As for the "carpentry accident" they're clearly trying to show that this version of Fox is just saying things that are blatenly untrue ("We found him like that") so I don't get how its anti Jewish.
| 147 |
jayzee Mon, Feb 8, 2010 5:13:54pm |
re: #146 jamesfirecat
The calling of "Jesus" infidel makes sense if you imagine it as the 33AD version of Fox, the way that they can be non to good on other matters (Terrorists Fist Jab). So are you going to argue that the fact that they use "infedel's last meal" to say that "infedel" is how they feel about all Jews?
As for the "carpentry accident" they're clearly trying to show that this version of Fox is just saying things that are blatenly untrue ("We found him like that") so I don't get how its anti Jewish.
I am saying that I perceive some anti Jewish and anti Israel sentiment in the examples. I also said why-now perhaps I am too sensitive or reading it wrong.
In regards to your first statement, I was saying that infidel could refer to Jesus and that the faith he is unfaithful to is Judaism-the reason attributed to Jews and the libelous charge that they committed deicide.
In regards to the second statement, I think the "work accident" similarity is to strong to ignore.
Don't forget, one of the charges leveled against Fox is that they are pro Jewish and pro Israel. Were these attempts to criticize that?
| 148 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 5:16:40pm |
re: #147 jayzee
I am saying that I perceive some anti Jewish and anti Israel sentiment in the examples. I also said why-now perhaps I am too sensitive or reading it wrong.
In regards to your first statement, I was saying that infidel could refer to Jesus and that the faith he is unfaithful to is Judaism-the reason attributed to Jews and the libelous charge that they committed deicide.
In regards to the second statement, I think the "work accident" similarity is to strong to ignore.
Don't forget, one of the charges leveled against Fox is that they are pro Jewish and pro Israel. Were these attempts to criticize that?
Okay tell you what, why don't you explain to me what the entire "work accident" story is, because I'm not getting that at the very least.
I think what they're criticizing is that Fox is at their funniest when they can be cheerleading for those in power like they did during the Bush years, thus imaging that in those two, Fox is run and paid for by Romans.
Of course the Romans would say that Jesus was an Infidel because they believe in a whole host of gods!
| 149 |
jayzee Mon, Feb 8, 2010 5:26:09pm |
I gotta go for a bit. BTW-I hope that the commentator had you're interpretation and not mine.
| 150 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 8, 2010 5:40:16pm |
re: #149 jayzee
I gotta go for a bit. BTW-I hope that the commentator had you're interpretation and not mine.
I'm pretty sure you're reading too much into it, I mean "carpentry accident" is funny to me, because Jesus was a carpenter, and yet the odds of him nailing himself to a cross by accident are about as likely as people stuffing rags down their own throats before they strangle themselves....
I mean is the "work accident" thing a serious meme outside of LGF? The link that you gave me didn't even use the phrase "work accident" beside for what Charles called it....
| 151 |
Sergeant Major Mon, Feb 8, 2010 6:09:20pm |
re: #40 Charles
Charles you are absolutely correct that there are many malicious comments being made about the death of Mr. Murtha and these types of comments should not be tolerated. I know you do not think highly of the right and based on their conduct lately I can’t say that I blame you. The link that you have posted is an example of how vile some of these comments can be but there are some that are respectful and in good taste. But it’s not just the fringe right that stoops to such a low level. I do not believe in tit for tat however, the comments made about Reagan upon his death were just as despicable if not more so. I also could not believe some of the comments made about Tony Snow when he passed and he was just the White House Press Secretary. Both parties have their fare share of scum.
Rest in peace Mr. Murtha and condolences to the Murtha family.
| 152 |
joest73 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:26:19pm |
I am from Johnstown, PA the center of Murtha's district. Murtha will be sorely missed in Johnstown and all of Western PA. While I am a Republican, Murtha was for a long part of his time in the Congress a traditional middle of the road Reagan Democrat.
Murtha did get a little bitter in the last decade. I don't know if i could blame him though. Back in 2000 I worked for one of the Murtha influenced defense companies in Johnstown. There was an active push in the company to get Bush elected because it was thought to be good for the company. Murtha knew about anything that happened in this company.
Then Rumsfield ignored the respected opinion of Murtha early in the Iraqi War and Murtha became more vocal.
With all of his flaws, Johnstown and all of the 12th district in Johnstown
will have quite a task filling Jack Murtha's shoes. R.I.P Jack!
| 153 |
Pythagoras Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:37:08pm |
re: #105 The Sanity Inspector
*shudder* My sister had gall bladder surgery a couple of months ago. No complications, thank God.
Same sentiments. This really brought tears to my eyes. I was never serious about the risks when my loved ones had this "routine" surgery.
Murtha's family must be totally wasted. I would have lost my mind.
| 154 |
Pythagoras Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:45:17pm |
re: #151 Sergeant Major
Charles you are absolutely correct that there are many malicious comments being made about the death of Mr. Murtha and these types of comments should not be tolerated. I know you do not think highly of the right and based on their conduct lately I can’t say that I blame you. The link that you have posted is an example of how vile some of these comments can be but there are some that are respectful and in good taste. But it’s not just the fringe right that stoops to such a low level. I do not believe in tit for tat however, the comments made about Reagan upon his death were just as despicable if not more so. I also could not believe some of the comments made about Tony Snow when he passed and he was just the White House Press Secretary. Both parties have their fare share of scum.
Rest in peace Mr. Murtha and condolences to the Murtha family.
These boards do not have any age limits. Some childish comments could have the obvious explanation.
However, Charles should be commended for setting the tone up front. Others could have done that too; maybe next time they will.
| 155 |
joest73 Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:55:46pm |
re: #153 Pythagoras
Murtha's family must be totally wasted. I would have lost my mind.
I wonder how good the medical care is at Bethesda with the ongoing Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Cutting through his intestine is no small mistake.
| 156 |
haakondahl Tue, Feb 9, 2010 2:11:11am |
re: #155 joest73
I wonder how good the medical care is at Bethesda with the ongoing Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Cutting through his intestine is no small mistake.
Whack-o.
| 160 |
Mike DeGuzman Wed, Feb 10, 2010 12:53:11am |
re: #155 joest73
Murtha's family must be totally wasted. I would have lost my mind.
I wonder how good the medical care is at Bethesda with the ongoing Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Cutting through his intestine is no small mistake.
Didn't he died at a civilian hospital in Virginia? I had gallbladder surgery with no complications. The surgeon really blotched a relatively simple surgery. I can't see how they accidently cut his intestine. Just wondering if his family will sue the hospital.
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