Glenn Reynolds in Fantasyland

Politics • Views: 3,478

Amazingly, Glenn Reynolds (Instapundit) manages to write a puff piece for the Wall Street Journal about the National Tea Party Convention in Nashville without even mentioning Tom Tancredo’s racist call to bring back literacy tests or Joseph Farah’s Birther/theocrat speech and resulting standing ovation.

How is it possible to be that blind to the huge elephant of bad craziness in the room? Like this: Glenn Harlan Reynolds: What I Saw at the Tea Party Convention.

This is why the extremists have had such an easy time taking over the tea party movement — people like Glenn Reynolds are determined to pretend they don’t even exist.

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277 comments
1 freetoken  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:03:31am

Got to wonder what kind of education the law students at the U. of Tenn. are getting when their most famous law instructor puts Johnnie Cochran to shame in the shyster category.

2 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:03:31am

Reason number 1 to stay in the GOP. Combat the crazies.

3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:06:07am

re: #2 filetandrelease

I never joined, but, yep.

4 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:08:12am

I wonder how Angela McGlowan is going to do. Anyone here more familiar with her than I am? (i know she was on Fox, i mean “familiar” as in “knows about her positions on things”)

5 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:08:48am

re: #4 Aceofwhat?

I wonder how Angela McGlowan is going to do. Anyone here more familiar with her than I am? (i know she was on Fox, i mean “familiar” as in “knows about her positions on things”)

She’s conservative.

6 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:09:35am

So if Obama hadn’t made those promises for more open government the Tea party never would have existed?

Damn you Obama can’t you see that this is why we need to keep those plebs living off the BLS in the dark about the finer things in life?

How can you be cheerful and angry at the same time?

Is it like in that Simpson’s episode with Mr. Rogers?

“Its beautiful day to kick your ass?”

“And surprisingly media savvy. William Temple donned colonial dress knowing that it would be an irresistible lure to TV cameras.”

Yes, nothing draws a crowd like crazy.


“It’s easy to see why. A recent Investor’s Business Daily/TIPP poll found that three-fourths of independent voters have a favorable opinion of the tea party. ”

That’s because you haven’t put forward enough candidates for us to get a feel for your party yet.


“but it’s not the sort of thing that sits well with tea partiers, who think that too much realpolitik is what rendered the Republican Party corrupt and ossified over the past decade.”

Yes we must purity above all, let those who are not pure in their beliefs, in their hatred, not even vote for us!

Also you didn’t talk about nirtherism either!

In other news TweetDeck works like a charm now I’ll never miss the start of another thread! (Cue groans_

7 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:10:02am

re: #1 freetoken

Got to wonder what kind of education the law students at the U. of Tenn. are getting when their most famous law instructor puts Johnnie Cochran to shame in the shyster category.

Meh. The right may have the majority in crazytown these days, but I can find you three outrageous leftie law profs for every one that you find on the right.

I usually wonder what kind of education law students are getting, period…

8 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:10:12am

He also goes out of his way to mention both of the two non-white people at the convention. Both of which were paid speakers….

One primary challenger is Les Phillip. He is running against Republican Parker Griffith in Alabama’s fifth congressional district. Mr. Phillip, a black businessman and Navy veteran who immigrated with his parents from Trinidad in his youth, got his start in politics speaking at a tea-party protest in Decatur, Ala., last year.
…..
Mr. Phillip isn’t the only black tea-party candidate in the deep south—Angela McGlowan, who spoke in Nashville, has entered the Republican primary in Mississippi’s first district—and primary challenges aren’t the only way activists are exerting influence.


No soul searching as to why there were so few ethnic minorities attending.

9 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:10:50am

re: #4 Aceofwhat?

I wonder how Angela McGlowan is going to do. Anyone here more familiar with her than I am? (i know she was on Fox, i mean “familiar” as in “knows about her positions on things”)

I don’t think delving into her sexual preferences is relevant!

10 freetoken  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:12:05am

re: #7 Aceofwhat?

Reynolds is a specialist in the field of Partial Truth, otherwise known as Shysterism.

11 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:14:08am

re: #10 freetoken

Reynolds is a specialist in the field of Partial Truth, otherwise known as Shysterism.

Not disagreeing. Again, in my experience that is too often the rule, rather than the exception.

(Didn’t we almost have a Vice President who sells posters for Shyster, Inc?)

12 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:15:20am
13 exelwood  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:15:32am

re: #10 freetoken

Reynolds is a specialist in the field of Partial Truth, otherwise known as Shysterism.

Don ‘t you hate it when that happens? :)

14 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:17:43am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

William Temple, Andrew Briebart and Sara Palin are minorities, because he ‘goes out of his way” to mention them also!!?!?!

15 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:18:40am

re: #12 MikeySDCA

This is all beginning to smell a lot like 1964, when the yahoos hijacked the GOP and sent the bus over the high side.

Which begs the question, where is the modern day Buckley when you need him?

16 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:19:13am

re: #15 jamesfirecat

Which begs the question, where is the modern day Buckley when you need him?

Exaaactly.

17 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:19:18am

re: #12 MikeySDCA

This is all beginning to smell a lot like 1964, when the yahoos hijacked the GOP and sent the bus over the high side.

Except this time is seems to be having the opposite effect. Voters are shifting to the right. Although it is possible that with out this craziness the shift would be even greater.

18 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:20:03am

(is = it) PIMF

19 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:20:32am

After months of denial Tea Parties suddenly have an interest in cleaning house….
Vigilance: I’m Banning Birfers, Truthers, and Groups Affiliated Therewith

Of course this is only because of the continued bad press about conspiracy theorists and and extremism. How about going after the Birch Society and Glenn Beck?

20 zora  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:20:32am

A tea party leader says Palin is wolf in sheep’s clothing

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

21 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:22:33am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

After months of denial Tea Parties suddenly have an interest in cleaning house…
Vigilance: I’m Banning Birfers, Truthers, and Groups Affiliated Therewith

Of course this is only because of the continued bad press about conspiracy theorists and and extremism. How about going after the Birch Society and Glenn Beck?

A lot of commenters at RedState are very unhappy about Erickson’s statement.

22 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:23:31am

re: #20 zora

A tea party leader says Palin is wolf in sheep’s clothing

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

Of course this begs the question, does the Tea Party have an ideas that it didn’t take from the Republicans. Or does it just “really mean them” this time?

23 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:24:10am

re: #20 zora

A tea party leader says Palin is wolf in sheep’s clothing

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

I give her more credit than most, but that is a bit much.

24 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:24:14am

re: #21 Charles

A lot of commenters at RedState are very unhappy about Erickson’s statement.

But if you ban all the crazy who is left?

25 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:24:43am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

After months of denial Tea Parties suddenly have an interest in cleaning house…
Vigilance: I’m Banning Birfers, Truthers, and Groups Affiliated Therewith

Of course this is only because of the continued bad press about conspiracy theorists and and extremism. How about going after the Birch Society and Glenn Beck?

How about “this could be an encouraging sign”.

26 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:25:42am

OT ,,,

Start of the NasCar season is moments away. I know he was talking about Indy cars at the time, but the late, great Jim Murray comes to mind


Gentlemen, start your coffins!
27 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:26:56am

re: #23 filetandrelease

I give her more credit than most, but that is a bit much.

but do her eyes glow red///

28 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:26:59am

re: #20 zora

A tea party leader says Palin is wolf in sheep’s clothing

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

Dale Robertson is a a whiney, freakin’ racist.

29 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:27:21am

re: #21 Charles

It’ll be interesting to see how this house cleaning pans out. Only allowing Glenn Beck endorsed conspiracies is going to cause problems. It really narrows their base. Rush and Drudge are trying to mainstream Alex Jones and nobody on the right is complaining about it. It’s going to be tough for them to dictate which conspiracies are acceptable.

30 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:28:00am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

It’ll be interesting to see how this house cleaning pans out. Only allowing Glenn Beck endorsed conspiracies is going to cause problems. It really narrows their base. Rush and Drudge are trying to mainstream Alex Jones and nobody on the right is complaining about it. It’s going to be tough for them to dictate which conspiracies are acceptable.

Mama always said crazy is as crazy does….

31 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:28:04am

re: #27 Aceofwhat?

but do her eyes glow red///

I hear pot is practically legal in Alaska, so maybe.

32 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:28:51am

re: #31 filetandrelease

I hear pot is practically legal in Alaska, so maybe.

Ha! Although i’d be surprised if she partook. No one who smokes has the energy to go up in a helicopter and shoot things. They’re mutually exclusive activities…

33 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:29:13am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

It’ll be interesting to see how this house cleaning pans out. Only allowing Glenn Beck endorsed conspiracies is going to cause problems. It really narrows their base. Rush and Drudge are trying to mainstream Alex Jones and nobody on the right is complaining about it. It’s going to be tough for them to dictate which conspiracies are acceptable.

agree 100%

34 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:30:24am

re: #32 Aceofwhat?

She doesn’t come across as a stony. Too much achievement and ambition.

35 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:30:51am

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
German protesters stop neo-Nazi march in Dresden

I hate Nazis ,, especially German Neo-Nazis!!!


(seriously ,,,, good on the 10,000 that stood up to them!!)

36 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:31:26am

Just saw this on twitter:

Erick Erickson (that name always makes me laugh) says RedState is banning birthers and 9/11 kooks.
“Today I want to reaffirm and make it more definitive. If you think 9/11 was an inside job or you really want to debate whether or not Barack Obama is an American citizen eligible to be President, RedState is not a place for you.”

[Link: mediamatters.org…]

37 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:31:35am

re: #17 filetandrelease

Except this time is seems to be having the opposite effect. Voters are shifting to the right. Although it is possible that with out this craziness the shift would be even greater.

Not sure about the shift in voters. There have been a few elections which don’t necessarily point to a trend. Public opinion is shifting against the President, but I think thats less a move into the arms of Republicans and more a reflection on the Dems inability to get things done. (If that difference even means anything).

38 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:32:30am

Never mind, late as always…

39 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:32:38am

re: #25 Aceofwhat?

How about “this could be an encouraging sign”.


If this happened a year ago I would have said it was encouraging. The Tea Party leadership and bloggers allowed White Supremacists to recruit at Tea Parties. The aligned with Larouche supporters, Birch Society Nuts, antigovernment militias and racists. If the Tea Parties really had good intentions they would have cleaned house long ago. They’re only doing it now because they are getting too much bad press and they are only trying to make cosmetic changes. If they really wanted to clean house they’d get rid of Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachman, Birch society and racists like RS McCain. They are just trying to improve their image without making the Tea Parties a reality based movement.

40 Racer X  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:34:00am

re: #6 jamesfirecat

So if Obama hadn’t made those promises for more open government the Tea party never would have existed?

Promises promises.

Jack Cafferty Rips Obama on Failed Openness Pledge: ‘Just Another Lie Told for Political Expediency’

Youtube Video

“You lie!”

41 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:34:03am

1:30pmEST on Saturday…it’s homemade guacamole time.

42 lawhawk  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:34:09am

re: #21 Charles

The banning should have been fast and furious from the outset. He should never have let the place devolve as it did where the inmates run the asylum.

43 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:35:26am

re: #35 sattv4u2

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
German protesters stop neo-Nazi march in Dresden

I hate Nazis ,, especially German Neo-Nazis!!!

(seriously ,,, good on the 10,000 that stood up to them!!)

Great to know that twice as many counter protesters showed up, makes me think of that scene in the Blues Brothers….

44 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:35:28am

re: #39 Killgore Trout

If this happened a year ago I would have said it was encouraging. The Tea Party leadership and bloggers allowed White Supremacists to recruit at Tea Parties. The aligned with Larouche supporters, Birch Society Nuts, antigovernment militias and racists. If the Tea Parties really had good intentions they would have cleaned house long ago. They’re only doing it now because they are getting too much bad press and they are only trying to make cosmetic changes. If they really wanted to clean house they’d get rid of Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachman, Birch society and racists like RS McCain. They are just trying to improve their image without making the Tea Parties a reality based movement.

As jamesfirecat said above, “But if you ban all the crazy who is left?”

45 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:35:35am

re: #20 zora

A tea party leader says Palin is wolf in sheep’s clothing

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

“The bastardization of our message I find bilious and disingenuous on its face. “

I’m still trying to figure out just what the hell is their message.

46 zora  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:35:38am

re: #32 Aceofwhat?

She admits to having smoked it when it was legal.

47 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:35:45am

and in the WSJ yet. Disappointing.

48 fizzlogic  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:35:54am

It’s the classic—I define the Right, not all the crazies that surround me.

Or Rush Limbaugh is brilliant except when he’s pandering to those crazies who surround me.

49 Sacred Plants  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:35:56am
This is why the extremists have had such an easy time taking over the tea party movement — shills like Glenn Reynolds are determined to pretend they don’t even exist.

Disagree. He doesn´t see any out of the box thinking because there isn´t any. These people are conformists who expect you to do what they believe everybody would expect from them. They drive their conformism so far that they lose all decency. But extremist would be an undeseved compliment.

50 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:36:05am

re: #37 eastsider

It is perplexing. And no doubt the move to expand government is turning people off. The recent elections combined with recent polls do show a trend particularly with Independents. Which is who I thought would be turned off by the crazies. Independents are a bit unpredictable ATM.

51 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:36:21am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

After months of denial Tea Parties suddenly have an interest in cleaning house…
Vigilance: I’m Banning Birfers, Truthers, and Groups Affiliated Therewith

Of course this is only because of the continued bad press about conspiracy theorists and and extremism. How about going after the Birch Society and Glenn Beck?


Good line in the comments

A political party cannot be all things to all people.
It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers.
Ronald Reagan

I wish Sarah had said it in her speech.

52 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:37:02am

re: #41 Aceofwhat?

1:30pmEST on Saturday…it’s homemade guacamole time.

Yum. Red onions?

53 Racer X  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:37:39am

re: #44 wrenchwench

As jamesfirecat said above, “But if you ban all the crazy who is left?”

You don’t really believe that everyone who participates in the tea parties are crazy do you? Naive, absolutely. Crazy?

54 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:38:16am

re: #44 wrenchwench

As jamesfirecat said above, “But if you ban all the crazy who is left?”

That is fine if you (as firecat does) think that everyone who is right of center is nuts…

It aint true… and there are some good people in th tea party movement.

55 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:38:18am

re: #40 Racer X

Promises promises.

Jack Cafferty Rips Obama on Failed Openness Pledge: ‘Just Another Lie Told for Political Expediency’


[Video]”You lie!”

I was just commenting on how the piece said

“Mr. Obama made those promises because the ideas they represented were popular with average Americans. So popular, it turns out, that average Americans are organizing themselves in pursuit of the kind of good government Mr. Obama promised, but has not delivered. And that, in a nutshell, was the feel of the National Tea Party Convention.”


So maybe evidently if Obama hadn’t made those promises nobody would feel those things were worth demanding…

56 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:39:16am

re: #50 filetandrelease

It is perplexing. And no doubt the move to expand government is turning people off. The recent elections combined with recent polls do show a trend particularly with Independents. Which is who I thought would be turned off by the crazies. Independents are a bit unpredictable ATM.

Hard to read the field right now. Not that its news, but it seems there’s a lot of hyperbole and rhetoric that’s clogging actual understanding of facts and the ability to get things done.

Check this:

[Link: digg.com…]

Kind of funny. But yeah, kind of sad.

57 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:40:06am

re: #50 filetandrelease

It is perplexing. And no doubt the move to expand government is turning people off. The recent elections combined with recent polls do show a trend particularly with Independents. Which is who I thought would be turned off by the crazies. Independents are a bit unpredictable ATM.

I think the Tea Party is popular because they have some very catchy sound beliefs.

The people the Tea Party puts forward to try and win elections on the other hand…..

58 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:40:07am

Okay ,,,,,, half way through the 1st lap at Daytona, we have a crash involving one of the two women in the race

Nascar and ESPN gave a collective *SIGH* when they realized it wasn;’t Danica Patrick!

59 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:40:39am

re: #54 Buck

That is fine if you (as firecat does) think that everyone who is right of center is nuts…

It aint true… and there are some good people in th tea party movement.

I think there are some good people and good intentions, but at the moment its owned, paid for, and steered by the crazies.

The responsible/sane in the group have to be wondering about the company they’re keeping.

60 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:41:13am

re: #57 jamesfirecat

I think the Tea Party is popular because they have some very catchy sound beliefs.

like ,,, HOPE ,,,, CHANGE !?!?!?!

61 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:41:13am

re: #54 Buck

That is fine if you (as firecat does) think that everyone who is right of center is nuts…

It aint true… and there are some good people in th tea party movement.

Then those would be the people who are left.

The real purpose of my question was not to say that all people in the tea party are nuts, its to say, what is the ratio of nuts to sane people?

How many are left after the crazies are shoved out the door?

62 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:42:24am

re: #53 Racer X

You don’t really believe that everyone who participates in the tea parties are crazy do you? Naive, absolutely. Crazy?

re: #54 Buck

That is fine if you (as firecat does) think that everyone who is right of center is nuts…

It aint true… and there are some good people in th tea party movement.

The participants who aren’t crazy are either naive or they just feel differently from the way I feel about several issues, such as “the Fed”, the current president, the meaning of the word “conservative”, etc. No, not all the participants are crazy, but I have not found one tea party organization that does not have crazies at the top. And I have done extensive looking.

63 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:42:41am

It is silly to suggest the GOP is nothing but a bunch of crazies. Keep thinking it at your own party’s peril.

The left has its’ share of wackos too, but I know better than to lump all Democrats in with them. It is tempting but would only allow me a certain smugness for a short period of time. Just long enough for the non-crazies to take advantage of my ignorance in the next election.

64 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:42:45am

re: #55 jamesfirecat

I was just commenting on how the piece said

“Mr. Obama made those promises because the ideas they represented were popular with average Americans. So popular, it turns out, that average Americans are organizing themselves in pursuit of the kind of good government Mr. Obama promised, but has not delivered. And that, in a nutshell, was the feel of the National Tea Party Convention.”

What is frustrating about this is that there IS more transparency then before, but lots folks either think things can change overnight or they are just not paying attention or they are the sort who will refuse to acknowledge anything the President has done so far because they just don’t like him.

65 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:42:51am

re: #53 Racer X

You don’t really believe that everyone who participates in the tea parties are crazy do you? Naive, absolutely. Crazy?

No I don’t.

You can take the question at face value without sarcastic intent.

What percentage of the tea party people are crazy? 25% 50% 75? I’ve got no exact idea at the moment, guess we’ll have to try and find out….

66 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:43:47am

re: #60 sattv4u2

Yeah.

Or Drill Baby Drill.

67 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:44:50am

re: #58 sattv4u2

Okay ,,, half way through the 1st lap at Daytona, we have a crash involving one of the two women in the race

Nascar and ESPN gave a collective *SIGH* when they realized it wasn;’t Danica Patrick!

That would have to the Bush series which tends to be more action packed due to rookie drivers entering NASCAR.

68 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:44:52am

re: #63 filetandrelease

It is silly to suggest the GOP is nothing but a bunch of crazies. Keep thinking it at your own party’s peril.

The left has its’ share of wackos too, but I know better than to lump all Democrats in with them. It is tempting but would only allow me a certain smugness for a short period of time. Just long enough for the non-crazies to take advantage of my ignorance in the next election.

It is silly also to conflate the GOP with the tea partiers. Some of those tea partiers hate the GOP and see it as an enemy.

69 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:44:53am

re: #52 filetandrelease

Yum. Red onions?

No, I actually don’t use onions for mine - i know, i’m in the minority there. I love the taste of avocado, and i don’t want to overwhelm it.

fresh crushed pepper, a pinch of garlic salt, fresh diced tomato, a dollop of sour cream, and two dashes of lime juice.

and whole grain tortilla chips (for the flavor…i doubt they’re really healthier…)

70 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:45:42am

re: #68 wrenchwench

It is silly also to conflate the GOP with the tea partiers. Some of those tea partiers hate the GOP and see it as an enemy.


Yes you are correct, my misunderstanding.

71 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:45:53am

re: #67 filetandrelease

That would have to the Bush NationWide series which tends to be more action packed due to rookie drivers entering NASCAR.

ftfy

72 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:46:21am

re: #59 eastsider

I think there are some good people and good intentions, but at the moment its owned, paid for, and steered by the crazies.

The responsible/sane in the group have to be wondering about the company they’re keeping.

Well I think that two years ago someone could have made it seem that the Democratic party was owned, paid for, and steered by the crazies and antisemetic far left.

Code pink, Cindy Sheehan, Moveon… truthers, the Bush = Hitler crowd, Daily Kos (see protocols of Kos).

The nuts are on both side of the political spectrum, and they make it seem like they are bigger than they really are.

73 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:46:58am

re: #71 sattv4u2

ftfy

Thank you.

74 freetoken  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:47:07am

re: #53 Racer X

No, not all are “crazy”. However, and without a doubt, a large segment of the various Tea Party groups’ beliefs are an agglutination of fringe political (and societal) ideas, and the only common theme, from what I gather, has to do with fear - of the “other”, of loss of stature, etc.

Birtherism itself is a classic case of fear of “the other”.

The exploiters of Tea Party fervor, such as Glenn Reynolds and Glen Beck, only really care about the fervor, not the theories/beliefs that underly them. So as far as the exploiters are concerned you can exchange fear/belief A for fear/belief B and everything will be quite fine.

The True Believers, though, won’t be so happy. Once they have invested the emotional/intellectual capital in an idea they will not easily let it go.

RedState’s loss (of posters) will be FR’s, WND’s, Townhall’s etc. gains.

75 Soap_Man  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:47:13am

I said it before and I’ll say it again: The Tea Party could have been a very, very good thing in American politics. But, like anything else, you need to keep your house clean.

76 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:48:02am

re: #31 filetandrelease

I hear pot is practically legal in Alaska, so maybe.

Now that’s an interesting observation because she DAMN SURE sounds like she’s stoned out of her mind most of the time when I hear/see her speaking.

77 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:48:31am

re: #67 filetandrelease

re: #71 sattv4u2

and BTW ,, there are a lot of “front line’ drivers in the race

Harvick, Kyle Busch, junior, Tony Stewart, Edwards, kahne

78 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:48:57am

re: #76 Locker

Now that’s an interesting observation because she DAMN SURE sounds like she’s stoned out of her mind most of the time when I hear/see her speaking.

LOL, and those red eyes, don’t forget those!

79 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:49:13am

re: #69 Aceofwhat?

and whole grain tortilla chips (for the flavor…i doubt they’re really healthier…)

They are healthier. More vitamins and fiber from the germ of the wheat. Less glycemic impact because of the extra fiber.

80 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:49:36am

re: #75 Soap_Man

I said it before and I’ll say it again: The Tea Party could have been a very, very good thing in American politics. But, like anything else, you need to keep your house clean.

Short of trying to get restraining orders to keep the nuts away from protests, how do you do that?

81 Racer X  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:49:58am

re: #65 jamesfirecat

No I don’t.

You can take the question at face value without sarcastic intent.

What percentage of the tea party people are crazy? 25% 50% 75? I’ve got no exact idea at the moment, guess we’ll have to try and find out…

37.2%

82 Lidane  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:50:20am

re: #15 jamesfirecat

Which begs the question, where is the modern day Buckley when you need him?

I’ve been wondering that for ages.

I never thought I’d miss William F. Buckley, but dear lord how I do. I wish there was someone on the right who could intelligently argue for conservatism without resorting to calling people RINOs, birtherism, Creationism/ID belief, 9/11 Troofer nonsense, or falling back on the Obama’s a socialist/Nazi/commie/pinko/seekrit Muslin terrarist memes of the past few years. Oh, and who isn’t a neocon or a socon. That would be nice too.

Oh well. A girl can dream. *sigh*

83 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:50:56am

re: #77 sattv4u2

re: #71 sattv4u2

and BTW ,, there are a lot of “front line’ drivers in the race

Harvick, Kyle Busch, junior, Tony Stewart, Edwards, kahne

Of course, but Daytona is the first race of the season, and the “Statewide” race the day before is where you see drivers entering Nascar for the first time. It tends to be, hmmm, exciting?

84 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:51:02am

re: #79 wrenchwench

They are healthier. More vitamins and fiber from the germ of the wheat. Less glycemic impact because of the extra fiber.

i think you’re right, but i exercise as if it’s all twinkies, just to be sure.

85 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:51:55am

re: #82 Lidane

I’ve been saying it, too. The guy was a bastion of rationality once he got his head on straight.

86 Soap_Man  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:51:59am

re: #80 MandyManners

Short of trying to get restraining orders to keep the nuts away from protests, how do you do that?


Self-policing I suppose. When you have a movement with no clearly defined leadership, the members need to take control. If the majority of people in the Tea Parties are non-whackos (as many supporters insist) then why not boo or shout down speakers who are saying wacky shit? Tell off the birthers who are carrying signs in the crowd. Etc.

Basically, make it clear that the crazies are not welcome and they can start their own group.

87 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:52:27am

re: #81 Racer X

37.2%

The other 62.7% don’t seem to care about the nutters. That is bad.

88 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:52:46am

re: #87 BigPapa

The other 62.7% don’t seem to care about the nutters. That is bad.

False

89 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:52:55am

re: #21 Charles

A lot of commenters at RedState are very unhappy about Erickson’s statement.

Is he having his “Charles” moment?

90 Racer X  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:53:07am

re: #75 Soap_Man

I said it before and I’ll say it again: The Tea Party could have been a very, very good thing in American politics. But, like anything else, you need to keep your house clean.

Yep.

Charles started exposing these nuts even before the tea parties caught on. The nuts surrounding Ron Paul were the first warning sign. They went into hibernation right around the election, then exploded with their outrage when Obama took office, almost from day one.

Lots of good people got caught up in the hysteria. Doesn’t make them all bad. It’s good to see at least some are starting to wake up.

91 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:53:26am

re: #54 Buck


It aint true… and there are some good people in th tea party movement.

Yes, but if we think someone is spouting rubbish here what do we do; show respect or tell them what we think?

92 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:53:29am

re: #86 Soap_Man

Self-policing I suppose. When you have a movement with no clearly defined leadership, the members need to take control. If the majority of people in the Tea Parties are non-whackos (as many supporters insist) then why not boo or shout down speakers who are saying wacky shit? Tell off the birthers who are carrying signs in the crowd. Etc.

Basically, make it clear that the crazies are not welcome and they can start their own group.

Sometimes etiquette gets in the way of doing the right thing.

93 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:53:44am

re: #75 Soap_Man

I said it before and I’ll say it again: The Tea Party could have been a very, very good thing in American politics. But, like anything else, you need to keep your house clean.

I’m not sure how it could have been a good thing. The main force of movement seem to all be built on fabrication and ignorance. Birthers, Truthers, Tax protests by people who think Obama raised their taxes when he really cut them…. etc, etc.

It’s also very hard to ignore that this whole movement seemed like a direct response to Obama getting elected… as opposed to anything Obama actually did or did not do. That leads one to believe that the concentrated outrage is simply a few different groups of people united in their hatred of the current leadership… before it even got started.

Perhaps I can see it as a “good thing” as it really has seemed to shine a bit of a spotlight on some of this nonsense… that spotlight is also tending to reflect very brightly from the massive amounts of tinfoil being used by these folks as headwear.

94 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:54:11am

re: #82 Lidane

I’ve been wondering that for ages.

I never thought I’d miss William F. Buckley, but dear lord how I do. I wish there was someone on the right who could intelligently argue for conservatism without resorting to calling people RINOs, birtherism, Creationism/ID belief, 9/11 Troofer nonsense, or falling back on the Obama’s a socialist/Nazi/commie/pinko/seekrit Muslin terrarist memes of the past few years. Oh, and who isn’t a neocon or a socon. That would be nice too.

Oh well. A girl can dream. *sigh*

The problem is that the guy you’re thinking of just recently got a primary challenge by someone much crazier and decided to become a democrat to keep his seat.

Not saying Arlan Specter is a today’s William F. Buckley but it sure seem like the sane people in the Republican Party either aren’t in power or stay mute while they are in power.

Olimpia Snow? Destiny is calling, will you accept the charges?

95 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:54:32am

Dan Riehl: Tea Party Coverage: From Blackout To Whiteout

While liberal media pundits often cast the movement as a bunch of old, typically Republican, white folks, or purely anti-Obama, even to the point of being racist - the movement may be more post-racial than MSNBC’s analyst of the tingly leg, Chris Matthews. Based upon his own comments, he can’t even watch Obama without first thinking of him as black. (Angela McGlowan - right)

This seems to be a popular theme today. Of course none of the wingnuts actually want to address why the only two black people attending the Tea Party convention were paid speakers. That’s 2 people out of 700? 800? Why is that? It because of the racist signs and Confederate flags at Tea Party rallies. It’s because of the racist motivation behind ACORN conspiracies. It’s because mention of O’Keefe (ACORN nut who was thrown out of his college dorm for racist comments) gets a standing ovation. It’s because of the wild applause at Tancredo’s speech for bring back the racist policy of literacy tests.

Highlighting the two black attendees isn’t going to make the problem go away.

96 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:55:00am

re: #83 filetandrelease

Of course, but Daytona is the first race of the season, and the “Statewide” race the day before is where you see drivers entering Nascar for the first time. It tends to be, hmmm, exciting?

2 crashes in the 1st 5 laps ,,, YA THINK !!!!

97 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:55:16am

re: #80 MandyManners

Short of trying to get restraining orders to keep the nuts away from protests, how do you do that?

Nominate candidates who will occasionally pause mid-stump to sarcastically, thoroughly, and unflinchingly mock, deride, and castigate the nutty positions of which we speak.

98 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:55:32am

42! right? isn’t the answer always 42?

99 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:55:45am

re: #91 Naso Tang

Yes, but if we think someone is spouting rubbish here what do we do; show respect or tell them what we think?

Speak out for sure. But acknowledge that some inside the movement are doing the same thing.

100 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:56:12am

re: #89 Decatur Deb

Is he having his “Charles” moment?

let’s not give him that much credit…

101 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:56:14am

re: #65 jamesfirecat

No I don’t.

You can take the question at face value without sarcastic intent.

What percentage of the tea party people are crazy? 25% 50% 75? I’ve got no exact idea at the moment, guess we’ll have to try and find out…

42! right? isn’t the answer always 42?

(that comment makes more sense w/ the quote)

102 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:56:20am

re: #98 eastsider

42! right? isn’t the answer always 42?

no ,,,it’s “E”,..non of the above

103 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:56:23am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Dan Riehl: Tea Party Coverage: From Blackout To Whiteout

This seems to be a popular theme today. Of course none of the wingnuts actually want to address why the only two black people attending the Tea Party convention were paid speakers. That’s 2 people out of 700? 800? Why is that? It because of the racist signs and Confederate flags at Tea Party rallies. It’s because of the racist motivation behind ACORN conspiracies. It’s because mention of O’Keefe (ACORN nut who was thrown out of his college dorm for racist comments) gets a standing ovation. It’s because of the wild applause at Tancredo’s speech for bring back the racist policy of literacy tests.

Highlighting the two black attendees isn’t going to make the problem go away.

Doubly so when they’re paid to be there instead of paying to get in….

104 fizzlogic  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:56:37am

re: #79 wrenchwench

They are healthier. More vitamins and fiber from the germ of the wheat. Less glycemic impact because of the extra fiber.

Those who eat a paleo diet consider any grain poisonous. In that the evolution of humans, grains are relatively new to the human diet. And responsible for many human ailments.

105 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:57:03am

re: #96 sattv4u2

2 crashes in the 1st 5 laps ,,, YA THINK !!!

LOL, yep.

106 Soap_Man  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:57:22am

re: #93 Locker

I’m not sure how it could have been a good thing. The main force of movement seem to all be built on fabrication and ignorance. Birthers, Truthers, Tax protests by people who think Obama raised their taxes when he really cut them… etc, etc.

It’s also very hard to ignore that this whole movement seemed like a direct response to Obama getting elected… as opposed to anything Obama actually did or did not do. That leads one to believe that the concentrated outrage is simply a few different groups of people united in their hatred of the current leadership… before it even got started.

Perhaps I can see it as a “good thing” as it really has seemed to shine a bit of a spotlight on some of this nonsense… that spotlight is also tending to reflect very brightly from the massive amounts of tinfoil being used by these folks as headwear.

When I say a good thing, I mean that it is good to see people out there willing to protest, when most just bitch and moan while sitting on the couch. I support protesters right to protest, basically, and I think we should have more of it from everybody, no matter where they may fall on the spectrum. I just wish it wasn’t just the people on the far-right or far-left who are always leading the charge. I wish it really was your everyday folks.

107 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:57:24am

re: #99 Buck

Speak out for sure. But acknowledge that some inside the movement are doing the same thing.

I don’t hear them over the applauses.

108 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:57:46am

re: #101 eastsider

42! right? isn’t the answer always 42?

(that comment makes more sense w/ the quote)

Well the answer was meant to be 45….

At least if you know what the question is….

109 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:57:51am

re: #97 Aceofwhat?

Nominate candidates who will occasionally pause mid-stump to sarcastically, thoroughly, and unflinchingly mock, deride, and castigate the nutty positions of which we speak.

Let the heads explode.

110 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:57:55am

re: #103 jamesfirecat

Doubly so when they’re paid to be there instead of paying to get in…

Yeah ,, because no matter WHAT the event is, political, religious, sports, motivational, ‘speakers’ are NEVER paid !!!

geeezzz Louise !!

111 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:58:24am

re: #104 trendsurfer

Those who eat a paleo diet consider any grain poisonous. In that the evolution of humans, grains are relatively new to the human diet. And responsible for many human ailments.

Are you one of those who eat a paleo diet?

112 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:58:24am

re: #107 Naso Tang

I don’t hear them over the applauses.

Well, we are pointing them out here.

113 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:58:37am

re: #72 Buck

Well I think that two years ago someone could have made it seem that the Democratic party was owned, paid for, and steered by the crazies and antisemetic far left.

Code pink, Cindy Sheehan, Moveon… truthers, the Bush = Hitler crowd, Daily Kos (see protocols of Kos).

The nuts are on both side of the political spectrum, and they make it seem like they are bigger than they really are.

I don’t know. My (clearly subjective) view is that the crazies on the left never got as much air time as the current Tea Party movement. And the coverage they got seemed peppered with a healthy attitude of “look at these crazies.”

It also didn’t seem to get the kind of traction with elected Dem officials as the TPers have with Repubs.

I mean you didn’t see any Dems openly claiming to be Truthers, did you? But you DO have state and federal Repubs right now questioning whether Obama is an actual US citizen.

114 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:58:54am

re: #106 Soap_Man

When I say a good thing, I mean that it is good to see people out there willing to protest, when most just bitch and moan while sitting on the couch. I support protesters right to protest, basically, and I think we should have more of it from everybody, no matter where they may fall on the spectrum. I just wish it wasn’t just the people on the far-right or far-left who are always leading the charge. I wish it really was your everyday folks.

Your everyday folks have jobs.

(And in say so I leave myself open to be blindsided with comments aobut how they don’t in this economy, bring it on….)

115 fizzlogic  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:58:58am

re: #111 wrenchwench

No, I like beer. :)

116 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:59:20am

re: #93 Locker

wasn’t originally a response to the election. there’s already a party for that. IIRC, the tea party was a response to perceived overspending, etc. on the part of the GOP.

117 Racer X  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:59:44am

The craziness in the tea parties must run its course. Let the wackjobs spout their crap. It exposes them. Many will begin to have second thoughts.

When Sarah Palin first showed up almost everyone here was like “YES! She is awesome!” (me included). The more we got to know her we were extremely let down. This happens time and time again in politics. Even Obama has experienced this (although Sarah wins the “disappointment trophy” hands down).

Watch as the tea parties start losing people more than they are gaining. The nuts are being exposed. You can hear the whispers (“did he really just say that?” whisper whisper whisper). Rational people won’t put up with this crap for very long.

118 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:59:56am

re: #110 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, because no matter WHAT the event is, political, religious, sports, motivational, ‘speakers’ are NEVER paid !!!

geeezzz Louise !!

Not saying that they shouldn’t be paid.

I’m just saying when the only black people you have there are paid to be there, one could argue you aren’t doing much to attract support from the African American community….

119 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 10:59:57am

re: #115 trendsurfer

No, I like beer. :)

I thought you seemed sensible! :)

120 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:00:47am

re: #109 MandyManners

Let the heads explode.

i realize that my answer may have been accurate at the expense of realism…

121 fizzlogic  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:00:50am

re: #119 wrenchwench

I thought you seemed sensible! :)

Only some of the time. :)

122 Soap_Man  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:01:11am

re: #114 jamesfirecat

Your everyday folks have jobs.

(And in say so I leave myself open to be blindsided with comments aobut how they don’t in this economy, bring it on…)

Yes, a lot of people are out of work. And yes, that’s probably what most people are protesting.

In my younger and much more liberal days, I went to a few protests. I have been employed since I was 16 and never had a gap in employment longer than two months, and I found the time…

123 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:01:13am

re: #97 Aceofwhat?

Nominate candidates who will occasionally pause mid-stump to sarcastically, thoroughly, and unflinchingly mock, deride, and castigate the nutty positions of which we speak.

I think once you infer that the other candidate for President runs around with terrorists you give permission to the baser elements in a political party. There are those folks who loved what Palin was saying on the campaign trail and once the Commie Terrorist Lover became President they were rip for the Tea Party movement because no one said right at the beginning that it was not about the President.
No one said get rid of the Nazi signs.
No one told folks like Michelle Bachman to shut their pie holes.

124 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:01:47am

re: #104 trendsurfer

Those who eat a paleo diet consider any grain poisonous. In that the evolution of humans, grains are relatively new to the human diet. And responsible for many human ailments.

i can’t tell if that’s sarcastic or not…

125 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:01:57am

re: #106 Soap_Man

When I say a good thing, I mean that it is good to see people out there willing to protest, when most just bitch and moan while sitting on the couch. I support protesters right to protest, basically, and I think we should have more of it from everybody, no matter where they may fall on the spectrum. I just wish it wasn’t just the people on the far-right or far-left who are always leading the charge. I wish it really was your everyday folks.

I guess it’s the old adage, comfortable people don’t protest/revolt. Back in the day I was more impressed with folks who are willing to protest. Now I’m more impressed by people who channel their energy into actually informing themselves about issues and candidates, voting appropriately, sharing that information with others, etc.

The last year of tea party/health care town hall stuff really brought that home as you saw so many protesters screaming at the tops of their lungs about issues on which their understanding was completely backwards. I respect the willingness to stand up and use your voice but I have much less respect for those simply yelling for yelling’s sake.

126 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:02:26am

re: #97 Aceofwhat?

Nominate candidates who will occasionally pause mid-stump to sarcastically, thoroughly, and unflinchingly mock, deride, and castigate the nutty positions of which we speak.

Hey, like Al Franken. I’m with you on this one.

127 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:02:45am

re: #113 eastsider

I don’t know. My (clearly subjective) view is that the crazies on the left never got as much air time as the current Tea Party movement. And the coverage they got seemed peppered with a healthy attitude of “look at these crazies.”

Nor did they have a whole news network working to legitimize their brand of crazy.

128 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:03:03am

re: #118 jamesfirecat

Not saying that they shouldn’t be paid.

I’m just saying when the only black people you have there are paid to be there, one could argue you aren’t doing much to attract support from the African American community…

And you know they were the ‘only black people there” because ,,, !?!?!?!

I went to a “Tea Party” in Atlanta last year. About 20K people. Milling around, I saw a fair representaion of ALL ethnicities and races

Not having gone to any others, especially the one ion question here (Tennessee) I have no idea who was or was not there

129 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:03:11am

re: #114 jamesfirecat

Your everyday folks have jobs.

(And in say so I leave myself open to be blindsided with comments aobut how they don’t in this economy, bring it on…)

You’re right, a lot of everyday people have jobs. And do you know how may everyday people are now working way under their career top? Do you know how many people in their late 40’s and up in age, have been downsized and out of work simply because of their age?

Do you realize any of that?

130 Soap_Man  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:03:28am

re: #125 Locker

I guess it’s the old adage, comfortable people don’t protest/revolt. Back in the day I was more impressed with folks who are willing to protest. Now I’m more impressed by people who channel their energy into actually informing themselves about issues and candidates, voting appropriately, sharing that information with others, etc.

Amen to that.

The last year of tea party/health care town hall stuff really brought that home as you saw so many protesters screaming at the tops of their lungs about issues on which their understanding was completely backwards. I respect the willingness to stand up and use your voice but I have much less respect for those simply yelling for yelling’s sake.

Quite concur!! (Channeling DF for the moment)

131 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:03:51am

re: #122 Soap_Man

Yes, a lot of people are out of work. And yes, that’s probably what most people are protesting.

In my younger and much more liberal days, I went to a few protests. I have been employed since I was 16 and never had a gap in employment longer than two months, and I found the time…

I’m not saying its impossible to find the time (have protest schedule on Saturday’s or Sunday afternoons) it just becomes trickier to find time to fit in a protest the more “settled” your life is. Do you bring the kids or do you find them a baby sitter for example…

132 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:04:07am

re: #123 webevintage

I think once you infer that the other candidate for President runs around with terrorists you give permission to the baser elements in a political party. There are those folks who loved what Palin was saying on the campaign trail and once the Commie Terrorist Lover became President they were rip for the Tea Party movement because no one said right at the beginning that it was not about the President.
No one said get rid of the Nazi signs.
No one told folks like Michelle Bachman to shut their pie holes.

yeah, i realize that i wasn’t being very realistic. there is an answer to the question of how to purge the crazies…just not a very realistic one…

133 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:04:18am

re: #116 Aceofwhat?

wasn’t originally a response to the election. there’s already a party for that. IIRC, the tea party was a response to perceived overspending, etc. on the part of the GOP.

No doubt that was in there somewhere. It never seemed to be just one thing, that’s for sure. Confluence of forces.

134 freetoken  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:04:40am

Put up a spin-off about the economy and joblessness of so many Americans. IMO that is one of the drivers that is keeping the otherwise too-looney-to-succeed Tea Party orgy going.

Don Peck writes:

Even if the economy were to immediately begin producing 600,000 jobs a month—more than double the pace of the mid-to-late 1990s, when job growth was strong—it would take roughly two years to dig ourselves out of the hole we’re in. The economy could add jobs that fast, or even faster—job growth is theoretically limited only by labor supply, and a lot more labor is sitting idle today than usual. But the U.S. hasn’t seen that pace of sustained employment growth in more than 30 years. And given the particulars of this recession, matching idle workers with new jobs—even once economic growth picks up—seems likely to be a particularly slow and challenging process.

High unemployment will be a great leverage for the Tea Party Pied Pipers to use on the masses.

135 fizzlogic  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:05:04am

re: #124 Aceofwhat?

I wasn’t being sarcastic. I was just throwing that out there. There may be some truth in it…or not. As they say, everything in moderation.

136 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:05:42am

re: #129 Walter L. Newton

You’re right, a lot of everyday people have jobs. And do you know how may everyday people are now working way under their career top? Do you know how many people in their late 40’s and up in age, have been downsized and out of work simply because of their age?

Do you realize any of that?

Yes I do.

That’s why I included the second part of my post to realize that making a point such as mine in the current economy is to invite well deserved criticism.

Thank you sir may have another?

137 Racer X  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:05:44am

Case in point.

There are still a lot of folks on the right posting here. Few are on board with the tea parties. I may agree with a few of the same points - smaller government is good, reduced spending is good, stronger defense is good - I do not support the tea party movement as a whole because of the crazies and the covert racism and bigotry.

138 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:06:19am

re: #135 trendsurfer

I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said, “All good things in moderation.”

139 Soap_Man  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:06:39am

re: #131 jamesfirecat

I’m not saying its impossible to find the time (have protest schedule on Saturday’s or Sunday afternoons) it just becomes trickier to find time to fit in a protest the more “settled” your life is. Do you bring the kids or do you find them a baby sitter for example…

Maybe they can have a baby-sitting/play area where the kids can hang out while the adults do grown-up stuff. Like at the gym. It can be a huge play date!

(joking)

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:06:45am

re: #110 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, because no matter WHAT the event is, political, religious, sports, motivational, ‘speakers’ are NEVER paid !!!

geeezzz Louise !!

It makes a difference, though. If there were more black paying attendees, it wouldn’t look so much as though the black speakers had been brought on board for the sole purpose of making the joint look less monotone.

141 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:07:27am

re: #128 sattv4u2

And you know they were the ‘only black people there” because ,,, !?!?!?!

I went to a “Tea Party” in Atlanta last year. About 20K people. Milling around, I saw a fair representaion of ALL ethnicities and races

Not having gone to any others, especially the one ion question here (Tennessee) I have no idea who was or was not there

I’m just building off of what Killgore Trout had to say in post #8 that at this one particular Tea Party Group, there were only two black people, both of whome were paid speakers.

If you find that assertion to be incorrect I invite you to prove both of us wrong…

142 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:07:38am

re: #128 sattv4u2

And you know they were the ‘only black people there” because ,,, !?!?!?!

I went to a “Tea Party” in Atlanta last year. About 20K people. Milling around, I saw a fair representaion of ALL ethnicities and races

Not having gone to any others, especially the one ion question here (Tennessee) I have no idea who was or was not there

But which is the true “movement”?
The one where you pay to get in (which could show how dedicated on is) or the one in Atlanta that I am assuming was free, open to the public and maybe outside?
(and correct me if I am wrong since the Tea party does confuse me since I’m still not sure what is about.)

143 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:07:40am

re: #126 Locker

Hey, like Al Franken. I’m with you on this one.

oh noes you didn’t…

144 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:08:06am

re: #124 Aceofwhat?

i can’t tell if that’s sarcastic or not…

It isn’t. These folks eat meat, fruit, veggies, no grain products.

Just another fad diet.

145 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:08:34am

re: #143 Aceofwhat?

oh noes you didn’t…

Hehe. Hey man… you tee it up and I’m gonna grab my R7 Draw… that’s just the way I’m drawn. ;-)

146 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:09:17am

re: #141 jamesfirecat

I’m just building off of what Killgore Trout had to say in post #8 that at this one particular Tea Party Group, there were only two black people, both of whome were paid speakers.

If you find that assertion to be incorrect I invite you to prove both of us wrong…

There was also a black journalist, a local guy. Don’t make me find the link….

147 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:09:20am

re: #135 trendsurfer

I wasn’t being sarcastic. I was just throwing that out there. There may be some truth in it…or not. As they say, everything in moderation.

the slogan of my life.

148 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:09:34am

re: #145 Locker

I think I just made my own head explode by using draw and drawn in the same sentence. Sarah… gimme a hit of that man.

149 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:09:52am

re: #141 jamesfirecat

I’m just building off of what Killgore Trout had to say in post #8 that at this one particular Tea Party Group, there were only two black people, both of whome were paid speakers.

If you find that assertion to be incorrect I invite you to prove both of us wrong…

I think it should be incumbent upon the poster that asserted they were the ‘only blacks in attendance’ to prove that CORRECT!

Watch how it works

THERE WERE NO ASAINS AT THE TEA PARTY UNLESS THEY WERE PAID

150 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:10:12am

re: #112 Buck

Well, we are pointing them out here.

It’s a dirty job but someone has to do it.

151 Racer X  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:10:19am

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

It makes a difference, though. If there were more black paying attendees, it wouldn’t look so much as though the black speakers had been brought on board for the sole purpose of making the joint look less monotone.

A black friend of mine really dislikes Obama - for many of the same reasons I do. He finds it extremely difficult to express himself to family and black friends - because he is blasted for not loving Obama. He just keeps quiet about it.

152 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:10:21am

re: #98 eastsider

42! right? isn’t the answer always 42?

Yes, but then we have to puzzle out what the actual question was.

153 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:10:30am

re: #144 SanFranciscoZionist

I would be at a loss. I love rye bread.

154 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:11:19am

re: #144 SanFranciscoZionist

It isn’t. These folks eat meat, fruit, veggies, no grain products.

Just another fad diet.

weird. have they identified the molecule(s) isolated to grains that are inherently harmful to our systems, or am I trying to make too much sense?

155 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:11:52am

re: #142 webevintage

But which is the true “movement”?
The one where you pay to get in (which could show how dedicated on is) or the one in Atlanta that I am assuming was free, open to the public and maybe outside?
(and correct me if I am wrong since the Tea party does confuse me since I’m still not sure what is about.)

Not sure. Atlanta was an early “party”, and yes it was outdoors encompassing about 4-6 city blocks. I went more out of curiousity than anything else. I saw a few Ron Paul signs and shills, but in truth fire hydrants were being paid more attention (people using them as a seat to rest a moment)

156 Jadespring  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:13:03am

re: #139 Soap_Man

Maybe they can have a baby-sitting/play area where the kids can hang out while the adults do grown-up stuff. Like at the gym. It can be a huge play date!

(joking)

No joke. I’ve known of protest/rallies that have done that sort of thing.

157 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:14:27am

OT: Ok so this is cool… on GolTv right now they are showing two different matches at the same time, one in Germany and one in Spain. They’ve got it up in a picture in picture kind of thing and they keep switching back and forth.

The cool thing is that the same two guys are calling both games, talking non-stop, switching back and forth based on which picture in picture is the “big one”.

Now that’s some serious multi-tasking.

158 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:14:34am

re: #128 sattv4u2

And you know they were the ‘only black people there” because ,,, !?!?!?!


Getting Religion at the Tea Party Convention

I’ve spent the day listening to speeches here at the Tea Party National Convention, and talking to some of the other delegates. For the most part, no big surprises: The folks are sociable, middle-aged, white (I think I counted two black adults in the whole room — though, interestingly, both of them ended up on the podium, giving speeches) and mad as hell that Barack Obama is conspiring with the United Nations to turn America into a socialist province of a One World State.

These are the same people highlighted in Glenn Reynold’s article. I’ve seen no other pictures or mention of black attendees at the convention aside from these two. I think the fact that Reynolds devotes so much of his article to these two people is telling. They were the only black people there. There’s a reason for that.

159 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:14:36am

re: #141 jamesfirecat

I’m just building off of what Killgore Trout had to say

troubling ,,, you accepted that as 100% accurate without question because it coincides with your pre-concieved notion that by and large blacks can’t be conservative!

160 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:15:27am

re: #149 sattv4u2

I think it should be incumbent upon the poster that asserted they were the ‘only blacks in attendance’ to prove that CORRECT!

Watch how it works

THERE WERE NO ASAINS AT THE TEA PARTY UNLESS THEY WERE PAID

brings up an interesting side note. i think that technically speaking (this is going to hurt//), james and Killgore are right to ask for proof.

we all want the other person to link/prove their hypothesis here while commenting, but my preferred rule of thumb is that you don’t ask someone to prove the null hypothesis.

in other words, James says “there were no other…”. Hard to prove that, but it’s easy to disprove. You find one = James was wrong.

Proof of zero is much harder than proof of one, and it’s my general rule when debating any of you fine people that whichever of us is holding the null hypothesis is least responsible for providing supporting information. I’d love to hear some other thoughts on the topic though.

161 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:15:32am

re: #113 eastsider

I don’t know. My (clearly subjective) view is that the crazies on the left never got as much air time as the current Tea Party movement. And the coverage they got seemed peppered with a healthy attitude of “look at these crazies.”

It also didn’t seem to get the kind of traction with elected Dem officials as the TPers have with Repubs.

I mean you didn’t see any Dems openly claiming to be Truthers, did you? But you DO have state and federal Repubs right now questioning whether Obama is an actual US citizen.

Well, I gave a few examples of very vocal left wing crazies.

And even today there is a good list of elected Democrats interested in arresting Bush/Chaney for war crimes.

You think that Van Jones didn’t really think the 9/11 needed to ‘be investigated’? Please… Maybe you should watch Fahrenheit 9/11 again? Is the meme that “GWB illegally stole the election” a nutso conspiracy in the same vein as “Obama = Socialist”?
It was a movie, and Gore still mentions it.

162 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:15:40am

re: #144 SanFranciscoZionist

It isn’t. These folks eat meat, fruit, veggies, no grain products.

Just another fad diet.

It’s been revived a few times. In the ’70s it was a book called “The Pleistocene Prescription”. (Grain would have been included as small primitive grass seeds). The burials seem to show few, healthy individuals before the neolithic, much larger and less healthy populations after agriculture. Big unhealthy populations accomplish more.

163 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:16:32am

re: #146 wrenchwench

There was also a black journalist, a local guy. Don’t make me find the link…

Journalists and security folks aren’t really “there”, they’re just there.

164 Lidane  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:16:36am

re: #144 SanFranciscoZionist

It isn’t. These folks eat meat, fruit, veggies, no grain products.

I only know one person who does that, and she doesn’t have a choice, since she’s got celiac disease.

I can’t imagine cutting out all grains from my diet, unless I had to do it. It just seems excessive, IMO.

165 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:17:32am

re: #160 Aceofwhat?

You must be a Karl Popper fan… as am I. Completely agree btw.

166 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:17:48am

re: #118 jamesfirecat

Not saying that they shouldn’t be paid.

I’m just saying when the only black people you have there are paid to be there, one could argue you aren’t doing much to attract support from the African American community…

That is your POV. However just because you didn’t see them, doesn’t mean they were not there.

Can’t blame them for not stepping forward. If they do they are labeled as ‘token’.

167 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:18:49am

re: #166 Buck

That is your POV. However just because you didn’t see them, doesn’t mean they were not there.

Can’t blame them for not stepping forward. If they do they are labeled as ‘token’.

Doesn’t mean they were there either..

168 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:18:59am

re: #161 Buck

Well, I gave a few examples of very vocal left wing crazies.

And even today there is a good list of elected Democrats interested in arresting Bush/Chaney for war crimes.

You think that Van Jones didn’t really think the 9/11 needed to ‘be investigated’? Please… Maybe you should watch Fahrenheit 9/11 again? Is the meme that “GWB illegally stole the election” a nutso conspiracy in the same vein as “Obama = Socialist”?
It was a movie, and Gore still mentions it.

Which election?

I don’t think George W. Bush stole the 2000 election, I think he found it on a street somewhere and walked off with it.

I mean come on, it was a 5-4 split that the winners clearly stated they didn’t want to be used as precedent.

IF YOU DON’T WANT IT TO BE USED AS PRECEDENT DON’T RULE THAT WAY!

Has there ever been a good reason to ask for your decision not be used as precedent?

(I ask seriously)


I don’t think we should do anything about it now, but I think comparing people who have a problem with how Bush won 2000 and nirthers or people who say Obama is a socalist is false equivelency…

169 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:19:19am

re: #163 Decatur Deb

Journalists and security folks aren’t really “there”, they’re just there.

To put it better, Journalists are being paid to be there as well, just like the speakers….

170 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:19:19am

re: #161 Buck

Well, I gave a few examples of very vocal left wing crazies.

And even today there is a good list of elected Democrats interested in arresting Bush/Chaney for war crimes.

You think that Van Jones didn’t really think the 9/11 needed to ‘be investigated’? Please… Maybe you should watch Fahrenheit 9/11 again? Is the meme that “GWB illegally stole the election” a nutso conspiracy in the same vein as “Obama = Socialist”?
It was a movie, and Gore still mentions it.

color me a looney leftist, but I think there are open questions around whether Bush broke the law re: torture. They operated at best in a very grey legal space. I don’t think it warrants any kind of inquisition/special prosecutor, but it remains to be seen if everything they did was on the up and up.

And I never watched Farenheit 9/11, because I think Michael Moore is an asshat. But that’s just me.

171 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:20:04am

re: #166 Buck

That is your POV. However just because you didn’t see them, doesn’t mean they were not there.

Can’t blame them for not stepping forward. If they do they are labeled as ‘token’.

See AceofWhat?’s 160.

I agree with him fully on that post.

172 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:20:53am

re: #169 jamesfirecat

To put it better, Journalists are being paid to be there as well, just like the speakers…

Better? Punk. You riff three variations on “there” in one sentence.

173 sagehen  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:21:48am

re: #142 webevintage

But which is the true “movement”?
The one where you pay to get in (which could show how dedicated on is) or the one in Atlanta that I am assuming was free, open to the public and maybe outside?
(and correct me if I am wrong since the Tea party does confuse me since I’m still not sure what is about.)

The one where you pay to get in is full of people who support the agenda.

The freebie, outside and open to the public, has people who are there to support the agenda, and people who don’t know what the agenda is, and people who oppose the agenda and are there to research what they’re up against.

174 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:22:05am

re: #154 Aceofwhat?

weird. have they identified the molecule(s) isolated to grains that are inherently harmful to our systems, or am I trying to make too much sense?

Grains, schmains. We age, decline, and die because of oxidation. We quite literally rust ourselves to death, at the molecular level. We also require oxidants (rust-causing agents) to sustain our biological processes. Life is a process, not a state. Everything you consume is harmful to your system. The metabolically perfect diet directly contributes to your demise. The only thing you can hope to control is the rate of disruption.

Meanwhile, there is snow on my sidewalk, my nephew’s kids are amazing, and music is THE BEST.

175 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:23:43am

re: #159 sattv4u2

You’re welcome for the evidence I provided in #158. No apology necessary but thanks anyways.

176 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:24:13am

re: #174 negativ

Grains, schmains. We age, decline, and die because of oxidation. We quite literally rust ourselves to death, at the molecular level. We also require oxidants (rust-causing agents) to sustain our biological processes. Life is a process, not a state. Everything you consume is harmful to your system. The metabolically perfect diet directly contributes to your demise. The only thing you can hope to control is the rate of disruption.

Meanwhile, there is snow on my sidewalk, my nephew’s kids are amazing, and music is THE BEST.

That was almost over my head but I think I got it and I think I agree. There are people at work who won’t take any medicine because they are afraid it will “harm there system”. I always ask them, do you think you will live forever if you take fine enough care of your body?

177 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:25:32am

Is a “truther” someone who think the Bush administration had something to do with 9/11 or are they folks who think the Bush administration fucked up and did not pay attention to information that was given to them prior to the attack?

What do you call someone who thinks 9/11 was Clinton’s fault?

178 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:26:06am

re: #168 jamesfirecat

Which election?

I don’t think George W. Bush stole the 2000 election, I think he found it on a street somewhere and walked off with it.

I mean come on, it was a 5-4 split that the winners clearly stated they didn’t want to be used as precedent.

IF YOU DON’T WANT IT TO BE USED AS PRECEDENT DON’T RULE THAT WAY!

Has there ever been a good reason to ask for your decision not be used as precedent?

(I ask seriously)

I don’t think we should do anything about it now, but I think comparing people who have a problem with how Bush won 2000 and nirthers or people who say Obama is a socalist is false equivelency…

Even after the election, many people (including the press) went through the ballots and came up empty.

Sure YOU don’t see it as a nutso conspiracy…. you believe it… lol

The Obama is a socialist crowd don’t think they are nuts either.

179 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:26:27am

re: #177 webevintage

Is a “truther” someone who think the Bush administration had something to do with 9/11 or are they folks who think the Bush administration fucked up and did not pay attention to information that was given to them prior to the attack?

What do you call someone who thinks 9/11 was Clinton’s fault?

An idiot.

180 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:26:32am

re: #173 sagehen

The one where you pay to get in is full of people who support the agenda.

The freebie, outside and open to the public, has people who are there to support the agenda, and people who don’t know what the agenda is, and people who oppose the agenda and are there to research what they’re up against.

and probably folks who are like “block party? awesome!”….

181 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:26:53am

re: #160 Aceofwhat?

brings up an interesting side note. i think that technically speaking (this is going to hurt//), james and Killgore are right to ask for proof.

Doesn’t hurt at all

I wasn’t at the event. Neither was KT

For he and James to assert there were “NO” blacks there other than paid speakers is ,, well ,, ABSURD

Again, I wasn’t there, so I can’t “prove” there were blacks, asians, or albinos there or not

And again, neither were Kilgore nor james, so logically they can’t either

182 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:27:28am

re: #177 webevintage


What do you call someone who thinks 9/11 was Clinton’s fault?

Oooh, ooh, I’ve heard this one.

“Bubbagaters”?
“Lewinsky bin Ladens”?
“Sarah Palin”?

183 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:28:08am

re: #181 sattv4u2

brings up an interesting side note. i think that technically speaking (this is going to hurt//), james and Killgore are right to ask for proof.

Doesn’t hurt at all

I wasn’t at the event. Neither was KT

For he and James to assert there were “NO” blacks there other than paid speakers is ,, well ,, ABSURD

Again, I wasn’t there, so I can’t “prove” there were blacks, asians, or albinos there or not

And again, neither were Kilgore nor james, so logically they can’t either

What about the report of someone who was there?

Is that logically acceptable proof?

184 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:28:47am

re: #177 webevintage

Is a “truther” someone who think the Bush administration had something to do with 9/11 or are they folks who think the Bush administration fucked up and did not pay attention to information that was given to them prior to the attack?

What do you call someone who thinks 9/11 was Clinton’s fault?

I think it’s basically that “THE GOVERNMENT” is hiding the real truth about 9/11. I remember going to a concert in 2003 or 2004 and seeing a few signs saying “Bush Knew!” and I asked my wife about it… “What did Bush know?” and she said they think he knew it was going to happen. Just boggled my mind at the time.

185 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:29:18am

re: #175 Killgore Trout

You’re welcome for the evidence I provided in #158. No apology necessary but thanks anyways.

yup ,, ya got me ,,, no blacks here

Image: juneteaparty4-300x225.jpg

(none given,,, you’re welcome)

186 zora  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:29:35am

re: #181 sattv4u2

It’s absurd to say there were only two black people there, but you don’t know if it’s true or not. What?

187 BunnyThief  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:30:25am

re: #82 Lidane

I’ve been wondering that for ages.

I never thought I’d miss William F. Buckley, but dear lord how I do. I wish there was someone on the right who could intelligently argue for conservatism without resorting to calling people RINOs, birtherism, Creationism/ID belief, 9/11 Troofer nonsense, or falling back on the Obama’s a socialist/Nazi/commie/pinko/seekrit Muslin terrarist memes of the past few years. Oh, and who isn’t a neocon or a socon. That would be nice too.

Oh well. A girl can dream. *sigh*

Let’s see…a “conservative” who doesn’t denounce their fellow party members for going too far astray from the fundamental principles, not a neo-conservative, and not a social conservative.

Will he/she/it be riding a unicorn, too?

188 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:30:33am

re: #184 Locker

I think it’s basically that “THE GOVERNMENT” is hiding the real truth about 9/11. I remember going to a concert in 2003 or 2004 and seeing a few signs saying “Bush Knew!” and I asked my wife about it… “What did Bush know?” and she said they think he knew it was going to happen. Just boggled my mind at the time.

To me the question was never “did Bush know” but “should Bush have known” given what evidence might have headed his way.

Luckily we had people look into that issue and I hope and pray we learned something about it…

(Not sarcastic)

189 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:31:55am

re: #186 zora

It’s absurd to say there were only two black people there, but you don’t know if it’s true or not. What?

I didn’t make the assertion, and wouldn’t because I would have no way of knowing!

but nice try!

190 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:32:32am

re: #183 jamesfirecat

What about the report of someone who was there?

Is that logically acceptable proof?

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

191 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:35:11am

re: #188 jamesfirecat

To me the question was never “did Bush know” but “should Bush have known” given what evidence might have headed his way.

Luckily we had people look into that issue and I hope and pray we learned something about it…

(Not sarcastic)

Well… even that didn’t really bother me at the time and this is from a leftie. It didn’t even bother me about going after Bin Laden in Afghanistan. He lost me completely and pissed me off forever when he went after Iraq.

It’s gotta be hard to filter all that information and come up with what’s credible and not credible. I don’t like people blaming any administration or President for intelligence failures that are just failures. Shit happens, perfection is unobtainable.

Now a failure from some deliberate act deserves not only blame but investigation and appropriate penalty.

192 Lidane  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:35:18am

re: #170 eastsider

And I never watched Farenheit 9/11, because I think Michael Moore is an asshat. But that’s just me.

I watched it. It sucked. You didn’t miss anything, believe me.

For that matter, Bowling For Columbine could have been a very shrewd examination of the culture of fear in this society, especially in the media (“10 Household Items That Can Kill You! News at 11!”), but Moore had to ruin his own movie by putting himself into the narrative. Also, his pointless stunts with Lockheed Martin and chasing Dick Clark and Charlton Heston around — not to mention the whole K-mart bit— just annoyed me.

He had a perfectly good idea for a movie. He just ruined it by being an asshat. That seems to happen a lot in his work.

193 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:35:27am

re: #183 jamesfirecat

What about the report of someone who was there?

Is that logically acceptable proof?

iirc,, this man said he went (and was not a paid speaker)

194 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:35:31am

re: #171 jamesfirecat

See AceofWhat?’s 160.

I agree with him fully on that post.

Dang - you and Locker are the two who are fully with me here. What am i doing wrong///

195 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:35:34am

re: #181 sattv4u2

For he and James to assert there were “NO” blacks there other than paid speakers is ,, well ,, ABSURD

Still ignoring the link, eh? I’ve presented the evidence for my assertion. You continue to deny it without presenting any evidence of your own. Reynold’s article also backs up my assertion. The only two black people there were mentioned in both articles.

196 zora  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:35:42am

re: #190 Buck

This guy is funny. He reminds of the black guy on The Boondocks who hates black people and blames them for all of America’s woes.

197 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:35:56am

re: #171 jamesfirecat

See AceofWhat?’s 160.

I agree with him fully on that post.

OK…. So you agree that it is harder to prove zero… then don’t say it…

If I post a link to an article that hilightes african americans in the conservative tea party movement, I predict the “token”, “paid for”, “only invited for cover” shouts….

198 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:36:02am

re: #183 jamesfirecat

re: #193 sattv4u2

iirc,, this man said he went (and was not a paid speaker)

[Link: www.hermancain.com…]

pimf

199 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:37:01am

re: #185 sattv4u2

Congratulations. The number of blacks attending the convention has now increased 50% from 2 to 3!

200 Lidane  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:37:34am

re: #187 BunnyThief

Will he/she/it be riding a unicorn, too?

A unicorn that farts rainbows and spits glitter, even. Hell, why not throw in a few leprechauns and faeries while we’re at it? ;)

Like I said— a girl can dream. I know it’s unrealistic, but that’s what daydreams are for. Heh.

201 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:37:38am

re: #195 Killgore Trout

Still ignoring the link, eh? I’ve presented the evidence for my assertion. You continue to deny it without presenting any evidence of your own. Reynold’s article also backs up my assertion. The only two black people there were mentioned in both articles.

I ignored nothing

I especially like this comment

I think I counted two black adults in the whole room

Not exactly a declaritive statement

202 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:38:36am

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Congratulations. The number of blacks attending the convention has now increased 50% from 2 to 3!

but ,, But ,, BUT ,,, YOU KNEW there were only 2 ,,
SURE of it, as a matter of fact

so 2 becomes 3 ,,

3 becomes 6 ,,,
6 becomes ,,,,,,,,

203 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:39:00am

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Congratulations. The number of blacks attending the convention has now increased 50% from 2 to 3!

that’s the problem with being the null hypothesis. the other person is responsible for proving you wrong, but you’re not allowed to whine about it when they do…

204 Jadespring  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:39:47am

First gold to Switzerland.

Those jumpers are friggin nutz.

205 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:39:52am

re: #170 eastsider

color me a looney leftist, but I think there are open questions around whether Bush broke the law re: torture. They operated at best in a very grey legal space. I don’t think it warrants any kind of inquisition/special prosecutor, but it remains to be seen if everything they did was on the up and up.

And I never watched Farenheit 9/11, because I think Michael Moore is an asshat. But that’s just me.

That might explain why you don’t see as many crazies on the left. You don’t want to.

206 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:39:53am

re: #202 sattv4u2

but ,, But ,, BUT ,,, YOU KNEW there were only 2 ,,
SURE of it, as a matter of fact

so 2 becomes 3 ,,

3 becomes 6 ,,,
6 becomes ,,,

I see where you’re going with this. They were ALL BLACK ALL ALONG!!!!!!

/m knight shamylan

207 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:40:09am

re: #203 Aceofwhat?

that’s the problem with being the null hypothesis. the other person is responsible for proving you wrong, but you’re not allowed to whine about it when they do…

And that was my only point from the start

I NEVER said it was a convergence of the NAACP with the Tea Party

but to assert there are “ONLY 2” out of the hundreds of attendees ,,, well ,,,,,

208 zora  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:40:32am

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Congratulations. The number of blacks attending the convention has now increased 50% from 2 to 3!

Hey if they can get one more to attend. They will say.. “Minority participation in the tea party movement has increased 100%”. Can the dems say that.

209 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:40:32am

re: #194 Aceofwhat?

Dang - you and Locker are the two who are fully with me here. What am i doing wrong///

It’s your blatant use of logic, fucks you up every time. ;)

210 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:40:51am

re: #206 eastsider

swingandamiss,,,
see 207

211 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:41:02am

re: #204 Jadespring

First gold to Switzerland.

Those jumpers are friggin nutz.

Ha! I’m watching too…i love the long jump. Where’s Darthstar when we need him?

212 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:42:06am

re: #209 Locker

It’s your blatant use of logic, fucks you up every time. ;)

Eh, you’re a leftie…it’s only a matter of time before it goes back to biting you in the a$$…

(i keeed, i keeed)

213 Jadespring  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:42:06am

re: #211 Aceofwhat?

Ha! I’m watching too…i love the long jump. Where’s Darthstar when we need him?

Does he ski jump?

214 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:42:19am

re: #211 Aceofwhat?

Ha! I’m watching too…i love the long jump. Where’s Darthstar when we need him?

Remember Eddie The Eagle !?!?!

215 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:42:26am

re: #205 Buck

That might explain why you don’t see as many crazies on the left. You don’t want to.

Any maybe you are just broadening your definition of crazy so it seems more equal. There is a difference between talking about and discussion actual, accepted information and completely fabricated information.

The legal discussion of Bush torture policies and opinions about such are far from crazy… regardless of opinion.

216 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:43:46am

re: #213 Jadespring

Does he ski jump?

ski patrol. which is basically what i dream of doing when i retire…and sometimes i dream of not waiting that long…

217 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:43:56am

re: #210 sattv4u2

swingandamiss,,,
see 207

Yeah it was a joke. Personally I think this whole debate is a little silly.

I think we can all agree to something like:

“There were very few black people at the Tea Partiers. Those that were there were overhyped by the organizers to dispel rumors of racism.”

Without quibbling over the details.

218 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:43:57am

re: #215 Locker

Proof reading is obviously not my strong suit. And… discussing… yadda yadda

219 Jadespring  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:44:03am

Wow. The news said that 2/3rds of Canadians watched the ceremonies last night. That’s pretty impressive.

220 Jadespring  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:45:26am

re: #216 Aceofwhat?

ski patrol. which is basically what i dream of doing when i retire…and sometimes i dream of not waiting that long…

Ah okay. :D I lived my dream when I lived in Whistler for 8 years. Was on the hill pretty much 7 days a week. I’d like to go back and do it again sometime.

221 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:45:37am

re: #207 sattv4u2

And that was my only point from the start

I NEVER said it was a convergence of the NAACP with the Tea Party

but to assert there are “ONLY 2” out of the hundreds of attendees ,,, well ,,,

words like “only”, “never”, “always”, “all”…they’ll sink you faster than a cape horn typhoon…

222 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:46:24am

re: #202 sattv4u2

but ,, But ,, BUT ,,, YOU KNEW there were only 2 ,,
SURE of it, as a matter of fact

so 2 becomes 3 ,,

3 becomes 6 ,,,
6 becomes ,,,

3 Will become 6 when you show us three more people who attended the party.

Here’s my line drawn in the sand.

Show me that 7 black people came there who payed to be there.

According to Wikipedia (not the best source I know)


13.5 % of Americans are black.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Now lets say that 91% percent of blacks support Obama.


600*.135= 81

If there are 600 people in the room at random it would be 81 black people on average.


If we knock away those who support Obama

81*.09=7.29

You’re left with 7.29

There for I will make the following claim.

Either my percentages are off (I welcome new data) or for some reason (I won’t say what) Blacks seem to have been under represented at this event. Maybe it cost too much for them, who knows?

223 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:46:44am

re: #217 eastsider

Yeah it was a joke. Personally I think this whole debate is a little silly.

I think we can all agree to something like:

“There were very few black people at the Tea Partiers. Those that were there were overhyped by the organizers to dispel rumors of racism.”

Without quibbling over the details.

that would have been a cogent, defensible remark. unfortunately, it’s not how the discussion was started.

224 Buck  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:46:50am

re: #215 Locker


The legal discussion of Bush torture policies and opinions about such are far from crazy… regardless of opinion.

Your opinion. Mine is that Bush = war criminal is crazy.

225 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:47:10am

re: #217 eastsider

Yeah it was a joke. Personally I think this whole debate is a little silly.

I think we can all agree to something like:

“There were very few black people at the Tea Partiers. Those that were there were overhyped by the organizers to dispel rumors of racism.”

Without quibbling over the details.

swingandamiss,,, strike two

((suggestion ,, keep the bat on your shoulder and hope for a walk!!)

226 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:48:34am

re: #225 sattv4u2

swingandamiss,,, strike two

((suggestion ,, keep the bat on your shoulder and hope for a walk!!)

hmm. not sure what I missed on there. care to elaborate your remark?

227 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:49:07am

re: #220 Jadespring

Ah okay. :D I lived my dream when I lived in Whistler for 8 years. Was on the hill pretty much 7 days a week. I’d like to go back and do it again sometime.

you’re my kind of person. at the same time, i’m envious to the point of disliking you intensely.

so i’m a little conflicted at the moment…

228 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:49:32am

re: #222 jamesfirecat

Blacks seem to have been under represented at this event

Maybe it cost too much for them, who knows?


Your paternalistic ‘progressive’ racism is showing

229 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:49:40am

re: #226 eastsider

hmm. not sure what I missed on there. care to elaborate your remark?

see #223

230 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:49:59am

re: #221 Aceofwhat?

words like “only”, “never”, “always”, “all”…they’ll sink you faster than a cape horn typhoon…

See… more of that logic. When trying to explain how I interact with reality since I don’t use faith, it’s normally a probability model that people understand the best.

Only, never, always, all, none, etc represent absolutes. Absolute 0 or Absolute 1 (100pct) are, statistically, very, very, very improbable. So improbably as to approach impossibility.. which is also an absolute that can only be “approached” in my current reality model.

(How’s that for slinging some bullshit?)

231 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:51:11am

re: #224 Buck

Your opinion. Mine is that Bush = war criminal is crazy.

Why is it crazy?

232 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:51:27am

OT ,,Danica Patricks car is now SMUSHED

(crash was not her fault,, she got caught up in the wash)

233 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:52:18am

re: #228 sattv4u2

Blacks seem to have been under represented at this event

Maybe it cost too much for them, who knows?

Your paternalistic ‘progressive’ racism is showing

Would you be satisfied if I dug up charts showing that blacks on average tend to be poorer than whites?

234 eastsider  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:53:12am

re: #229 Aceofwhat?

see #223

I get that that’s not how it started, but I think that we’re arguing over semantics, and proposed my phrase as a way to end it.

235 fizzlogic  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:54:01am

re: #154 Aceofwhat?

Supposedly sprouted grains are the safest due to a defense mechanism built into grains that is deactivated by sprouting. Go figure.

236 Jadespring  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:55:10am

re: #227 Aceofwhat?

you’re my kind of person. at the same time, i’m envious to the point of disliking you intensely.

so i’m a little conflicted at the moment…

LOL. No worries I can understand. There’s many other things that I dream about and get envious over. Seriously though. Life is short and whenever you can manage it, just do it. :D

237 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:55:39am

re: #233 jamesfirecat

Would you be satisfied if I dug up charts showing that blacks on average tend to be poorer than whites?

No ,, I’d be ‘satisfied’ if you treated people equally without blanket assertions

238 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:56:11am

re: #237 sattv4u2

No ,, I’d be ‘satisfied’ if you treated people equally without blanket assertions

Okay then I’ll work on that.

What did you think of my math and the conclusion I drew?

239 filetandrelease  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:56:44am

re: #231 Locker

Why is it crazy?


Because he is not.

240 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:57:25am

re: #177 webevintage

Is a “truther” someone who think the Bush administration had something to do with 9/11 or are they folks who think the Bush administration fucked up and did not pay attention to information that was given to them prior to the attack?

What do you call someone who thinks 9/11 was Clinton’s fault?

In general, a “Truther” very sincerely believes:
* There were no Islamic hijackers on 9/11/01
* Cell phone calls from United flight 93 were faked by “voice morphing technology”
* The Pentgon was hit by a cruise missile
* Both WTC buildings were “wired with explosives” by a fake maintenance crew over the course of a weekend prior to 9/11
* The FBI office in WTC7 was filled with paperwork and hard drives laying out all the details of the conspiracy, so it was also destroyed by means of previously-planted explosives
* Larry Silverstien made a statement to the press that “the decision was made to pull it.” He meant that FDNY et. al made the decision to PULL the command HQ out of WTC7. Crazy people insist that Silverstien “admitted” on national TV that FDNY decided there and then to destroy WTC7 by means of explosives that were meticulously and secretively planted previously without anyone noticing
* Some “truthers” believe (I SWEAR TO “BOB” I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP) that there were no planes at all involved in 9/11, and that sophisticated holograms distracted even 1st-hand eye-witnesses from the reality.

There is much, much more to the “9/11 Truth Movement” than that, and it gets exponentially weirder. If you really hate your brain, register an account at the JREF forum ([Link: forums.randi.org)…] and check out the Conspiracy Theories section. There you will find several years worth of the craziest crap you can imagine relating to 9/11.

Note: I don’t mean to imply that the JREF forum is an internet Crazytown. Quite the opposite. It’s worth your time.

241 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:58:50am

re: #239 filetandrelease

Because he is not.

That’s opinion. Once again, the fact that the war happened isn’t fabricated, the fact that we tortured isn’t fabricated. The opinion on legality is a real question. There is nothing crazy about it.

242 zora  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:59:09am

re: #233 jamesfirecat

I don’t think that would be helpful at all. I strongly doubt that money is the reason more black people did not attend.

243 Locker  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 11:59:46am

There is however something crazy about me continuing to stay here when I’m starving to death and I have a freezer full of Jimmy Dean’s. I’ll now pause for this short snacky break.

244 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:01:25pm

re: #192 Lidane

I watched it. It sucked. You didn’t miss anything, believe me.

For that matter, Bowling For Columbine could have been a very shrewd examination of the culture of fear in this society, especially in the media (“10 Household Items That Can Kill You! News at 11!”), but Moore had to ruin his own movie by putting himself into the narrative. Also, his pointless stunts with Lockheed Martin and chasing Dick Clark and Charlton Heston around — not to mention the whole K-mart bit— just annoyed me.

He had a perfectly good idea for a movie. He just ruined it by being an asshat. That seems to happen a lot in his work.

THIS times 1 billion. Michael Moore pisses me off for exactly the reasons you describe.

He further frustrates me because I know that if I watch his stuff long enough, sooner or later he’s going to make a really good point that I can’t disagree with, and that will cause all sorts of cognitive dissonance because I hate his friggin guts.

That said, I thought his TV Nation show back in the day was absolutely brilliant.

245 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:02:13pm

re: #238 jamesfirecat

Okay then I’ll work on that.

What did you think of my math and the conclusion I drew?

Lacking

Going by your logic, base line and math, 91% of NAACP members are white!

246 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:02:22pm

re: #242 zora

I don’t think that would be helpful at all. I strongly doubt that money is the reason more black people did not attend.

Neither do I to be quite frank.

Here’s the brass tax of it for me.


According to this recent bit of news…


[Link: www.swamppolitics.com…]


95% of the Tea Party people are white.

That means 5% aren’t.

5% of 600 is 30.

Ergo if there were fewer than 30 non whites in attendance at the convention then we can make the argument that the convention then there were more white people there than there would have been “on average” if we took a random sample of tea party members.

Can we all agree on this?

247 Lidane  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:02:38pm

re: #240 negativ

And that, in a nutshell, is why people who are 9/11 Troofers are batshit insane.

248 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:03:29pm

re: #245 sattv4u2

Lacking

Going by your logic, base line and math, 91% of NAACP members are white!

Can you show me how the math for that conclusion came about?

(Non sarcastic)

249 Lidane  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:08:03pm

re: #244 negativ

THIS times 1 billion. Michael Moore pisses me off for exactly the reasons you describe.

He further frustrates me because I know that if I watch his stuff long enough, sooner or later he’s going to make a really good point that I can’t disagree with, and that will cause all sorts of cognitive dissonance because I hate his friggin guts.

Heh. I know the feeling. It’s why I can’t listen to him or watch his films more than once.

Moore might make the occasional good point, but he irritates me so much the rest of the time that I can’t give him any credit for those good points or my head would explode. Most of the time, I just want to punch him for ruining his own movies by becoming part of the story. It’s annoying as all hell.

That said, I thought his TV Nation show back in the day was absolutely brilliant.

TV Nation was good. The rest of his œuvre is hit or miss with me, largely because he insists on being at the center of everything. =P

250 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:08:07pm

re: #234 eastsider

I get that that’s not how it started, but I think that we’re arguing over semantics, and proposed my phrase as a way to end it.

END it? the semantics are half the fun!!

251 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:09:20pm

re: #240 negativ

Oh. I forgot to mention the most crucial points:

It was all planned by THE JEWS and they laid out their evil plans here.

The Truthers also believe FEMA concentration camps are being prepared for all of us who somehow escape summary execution.

AND! BU$HITLER is going to declare martial law and become President for life.

Also, Obama is going to declare martial law and become President for life.

Alex Jones was/is one of the major proponents of this bullshit. I hear he’s on the Fox News Channel from time to time.

252 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:09:49pm

re: #235 trendsurfer

Supposedly sprouted grains are the safest due to a defense mechanism built into grains that is deactivated by sprouting. Go figure.

No problem. Biology major. I lack the willpower to not ask the question…

253 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:11:24pm

re: #248 jamesfirecat

Can you show me how the math for that conclusion came about?

(Non sarcastic)

Nope ,,, just sounded like a cool number

You bought Kilgores number hook, line and sinker. I figured i’d give it a try!

254 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:11:54pm

re: #241 Locker

That’s opinion. Once again, the fact that the war happened isn’t fabricated, the fact that we tortured isn’t fabricated. The opinion on legality is a real question. There is nothing crazy about it.

by “torture” do you mean waterboarding?

255 celticdragon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:12:24pm

re: #17 filetandrelease

Except this time is seems to be having the opposite effect. Voters are shifting to the right. Although it is possible that with out this craziness the shift would be even greater.

I’m not sure. I never underestimate the perverse power of underinformed voters who are angry about something but slept through high school civics. Poll after poll shows that a vast majority of Americans have no idea how the filibuster works in the Senate, nor do they know that the GOP has been relentlessly blocking every bill (good and bad) while chortling about the “Do nothing” Democrats. They are counting on 24 hour a day wurlitzer music from Fox News and the ignorance and short memory span of the average voter to work in their favor. In the 19540’s, an average of one or two bills a year got filibustered. Now it is something like 150-160 bills this past year. I don’t see how we can continue to have a functional government if this is now our model.

And I am saying that as a Republican, unfortunately.

God help us.

256 celticdragon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:14:39pm

re: #249 Lidane

TV Nation was good. The rest of his œuvre is hit or miss with me, largely because he insists on being at the center of everything. =P

I agree wrt Michael Moore. I thought some of his points about the mendacity and even destructive practices of American big business were spot-on. When he delved into culture war stuff about guns and 9/11, I bailed.

257 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:16:37pm

re: #253 sattv4u2

Nope ,,, just sounded like a cool number

You bought Kilgores number hook, line and sinker. I figured i’d give it a try!

Do you feel that my numbers and conclusions in post 246 are fair?

258 sagehen  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:20:28pm

re: #254 Aceofwhat?

by “torture” do you mean waterboarding?

And sleep deprivation, and stress positions, and extreme temperatures, and walling, and beating people until they died.

259 Gus  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:22:44pm

re: #246 jamesfirecat

Neither do I to be quite frank.

Here’s the brass tax of it for me.

According to this recent bit of news…

[Link: www.swamppolitics.com…]

95% of the Tea Party people are white.

That means 5% aren’t.

5% of 600 is 30.

Ergo if there were fewer than 30 non whites in attendance at the convention then we can make the argument that the convention then there were more white people there than there would have been “on average” if we took a random sample of tea party members.

Can we all agree on this?

Blacks represent 12.4% of the population in the USA. There were 600 attendees at the Tea Party Convention.

Therefore, if there was an equal distribution of demographics we would see 600 X .124 = 74.4 or 75 blacks at the convention. This doesn’t even come close.

This isn’t a big issue for me since the Tea Party movement represents a subset of atavistic reactionaries and Dominionists.

260 Girth  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:23:19pm

re: #255 celticdragon

I find this to be a very interesting argument about the filibuster:

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

261 Claire  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:23:31pm

Bear with me here, but if 600 people attended the Tea Party and say, 10% of the country is black, and if you expected representation, then there “should” be 60 black people there. Given that fact that 90% of voting blacks voted for Obama, you might then expect 6 there out of the possible 60. 6 out of 600. That isn’t very many. Is my logic faulty?

262 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:25:19pm

re: #261 Claire

Bear with me here, but if 600 people attended the Tea Party and say, 10% of the country is black, and if you expected representation, then there “should” be 60 black people there. Given that fact that 90% of voting blacks voted for Obama, you might then expect 6 there out of the possible 60. 6 out of 600. That isn’t very many. Is my logic faulty?

That’s more or less my point. 6 Out of 600 isn’t very many, but so far we’ve only been able to find 1 out of 600 who was there who wasn’t getting paid.

263 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:25:33pm

re: #262 jamesfirecat

That’s more or less my point. 6 Out of 600 isn’t very many, but so far we’ve only been able to find 1 out of 600 who was there who wasn’t getting paid.

1 out of 600 who wasn’t black and wasn’t getting paid…

264 celticdragon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:26:40pm

re: #259 Gus 802

Blacks represent 12.4% of the population in the USA. There were 600 attendees at the Tea Party Convention.

Therefore, if there was an equal distribution of demographics we would see 600 X .124 = 74.4 or 75 blacks at the convention. This doesn’t even come close.

This isn’t a big issue for me since the Tea Party movement represents a subset of atavistic reactionaries and Dominionists.

Nicely done.

265 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:27:50pm

re: #257 jamesfirecat

re: #259 Gus 802

re: #261 Claire


the problem is, this wasn’t a math quiz. It was a real live event. There’s no telling what motivates people to attend or not
How many (regardless of race) wanted to go but couldn’t because their wife got sick ,, car broke down ,,, babysitter arrangment fell through

How many DIDN’t plan on going and at the last minute said “fuggid ,, lets go see what this is all about,,,, there’s nothing good on TV tonight”

266 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:28:22pm

re: #260 Girth

I find this to be a very interesting argument about the filibuster:

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

I doubtlessly agree that regardless of if we keep or get rid of the Fillibuster, we need to make it so that people who do it have to f***ing talk!

267 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:29:36pm

re: #265 sattv4u2

re: #259 Gus 802

re: #261 Claire

the problem is, this wasn’t a math quiz. It was a real live event. There’s no telling what motivates people to attend or not
How many (regardless of race) wanted to go but couldn’t because their wife got sick ,, car broke down ,,, babysitter arrangment fell through

How many DIDN’t plan on going and at the last minute said “fuggid ,, lets go see what this is all about,,, there’s nothing good on TV tonight”

Fair enough.

Lets log it as a point of data and call it a night/afternoon.

If more interesting points of data come up we’ll bare them in mind, but for now we’re basically just showing off how big our respective… calculators are.

268 webevintage  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:31:29pm

re: #240 negativ

In general, a “Truther” very sincerely believes:

OK, wow…yeah, crazy…

Thanks.
Had to walk away to get Strombolis in the oven.

and I agree with whomever said failures in intelligence are just that and no administration is perfect.

Hindsight is 20/20 and we can never be perfectly safe. Bad shit just happens sometimes.
I refuse to live in fear.

269 celticdragon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:31:36pm

re: #260 Girth

I find this to be a very interesting argument about the filibuster:

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

Exactly.

Whether any such approach works, the founders would have expected us to do something about this unconstitutional filibuster. In Federalist No. 75, Hamilton denounced the use of supermajority rule in these prophetic words: “The history of every political establishment in which this principle has prevailed is a history of impotence, perplexity and disorder.” That is a suitable epitaph for what has happened to the Senate.

270 Girth  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:32:20pm

re: #266 jamesfirecat

I doubtlessly agree that regardless of if we keep or get rid of the Fillibuster, we need to make it so that people who do it have to f***ing talk!

You realize of course that the reason that they don’t want to do that is because it would place a larger burden on the majority, because they would have to maintain a quorum on the floor during the filibuster.

271 Lidane  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:32:20pm

re: #256 celticdragon

When he delved into culture war stuff about guns and 9/11, I bailed.

What kills me is when he misses the whole point he’s trying to make.

For example, the best scene in Bowling For Columbine, IMO, is when he’s with the news crew in LA. You can’t even see the huge freaking Hollywood sign because of the shitty air quality and the smog in the city, but they’re too busy running around looking elsewhere because they got reports of a gunshot being fired.

THAT should have been the focal point of the film— how the media uses fear to distract people from the very real problems we’re facing. The news crew’s focus is on a gunshot being fired when the air is literally dense and brown due to all the pollution. He could have made a point about that and about the manipulation of fear in the aftermath of Columbine. He could have focused on all the hysteria over music, video games, and pop culture, and all that “Trenchcoat Mafia” shit that was hyped for ages, and about how it distracted from two obviously troubled kids and their actions in shooting up their school.

All that garbage in chasing around Dick Clark and Charlton Heston, and ragging on Lockheed Martin missed the point and ruined the movie. It irritated me to no end. Bleah.

272 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:37:10pm

re: #270 Girth

You realize of course that the reason that they don’t want to do that is because it would place a larger burden on the majority, because they would have to maintain a quorum on the floor during the filibuster.

Then reorder it so that instead during a filibuster you need to keep 41 people opposed to it ending there while the other side needs to only keep one guy to make sure they’re staying honest and not stopping to talk.

Besides, better the majority be able to impose its will through cots and colostomy bags while waiting for the other side to finally s*** up then do nothing at all….

273 celticdragon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:39:12pm

More fun with how the use of the veto eventually paralyzed (and contributed to the eventual dismemberment of) the Polish Republic in the 17th Century as the government became unable to approve anything at ll…

Until the end of the 16th century, unanimity was not required, and the majority-voting process was the most commonly used electoral form. Later, with the rise of power held by Polish magnates, the unanimity principle was reinforced with the institution of the nobility’s right of liberum veto (Latin for “I freely forbid”). If the envoys were unable to reach a unanimous decision within six weeks (the time limit of a single session), deliberations were declared null and void. From the mid-17th century onward, any objection to a Sejm resolution — by either an envoy or a senator — automatically caused the rejection of other, previously approved resolutions. This was because all resolutions passed by a given session of the Sejm formed a whole resolution, and, as such, was published as the annual constitution of the Sejm, e.g., Anno Domini 1667. In the 16th century, no single person or small group dared to hold up proceedings, but, from the second half of the 17th century, the liberum veto was used to virtually paralyze the Sejm, and brought the Commonwealth to the brink of collapse. The liberum veto was finally abolished by the May Constitution of Poland in 1791.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

274 celticdragon  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:41:39pm

Sorry, that should have been “filibuster”, although the Polish use of it was something of a cross between the two terms.

275 Girth  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:49:13pm

re: #272 jamesfirecat

Then reorder it so that instead during a filibuster you need to keep 41 people opposed to it ending there while the other side needs to only keep one guy to make sure they’re staying honest and not stopping to talk.

Besides, better the majority be able to impose its will through cots and colostomy bags while waiting for the other side to finally s*** up then do nothing at all…

Well, the filibuster really isn’t about the majority or the minority, it’s about one senator’s right to unlimited debate. A quorum is required to do any business in the Senate. It’s not incumbent upon those who agree with a Senator’s filibuster to be there to make that quorum but rather those who wish to stop it because the majority wants to take away that member’s right to unlimited debate on a particular issue. So those who want to end the filibuster have to make up the quorum.

276 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 12:53:29pm

re: #275 Girth

Well, the filibuster really isn’t about the majority or the minority, it’s about one senator’s right to unlimited debate. A quorum is required to do any business in the Senate. It’s not incumbent upon those who agree with a Senator’s filibuster to be there to make that quorum but rather those who wish to stop it because the majority wants to take away that member’s right to unlimited debate on a particular issue. So those who want to end the filibuster have to make up the quorum.

Like I said, they might have had good intentions when they set things up the way they did, but in effect they wrote the minority a blank check to just filibuster everything.

I say lets get McCain, Snowe, and all the others out there on the floor of the senate reading the phone book or ranting about how healthcare leads to socialism for all the world to see!

277 hugh59  Sat, Feb 13, 2010 6:09:00pm

So sad. People who claim to be progressive who cannot bring themselves to respect and try to understand people with different ideas. Not every person who supports the Tea Party movement is nuts. But I guess it makes the weak willed so-called progressives here feel better about themselves to make fun of the Tea Party people.

Most everyone has some wisdom that is worth trying to learn. If you only listen to people with similar views, you will probably never be able to solve the world’s problems.


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