IPCC Errors? Facts vs. Spin

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Environment • Mon Feb 15, 2010 at 1:45 pm PST • Views: 715

Gavin Schmidt of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies has an excellent post at RealClimate, going through the deluge of distorted claims about the “errors” (in reality, there appears to be only one genuine “error” and one debatable point) in the IPCC’s last report (the “AR4”), and exhaustively debunking each one: RealClimate: IPCC errors: facts and spin.

Schmidt provides some background information on the IPCC:

Let’s start with a few basic facts about the IPCC. The IPCC is not, as many people seem to think, a large organization. In fact, it has only 10 full-time staff in its secretariat at the World Meteorological Organization in Geneva, plus a few staff in four technical support units that help the chairs of the three IPCC working groups and the national greenhouse gas inventories group. The actual work of the IPCC is done by unpaid volunteers – thousands of scientists at universities and research institutes around the world who contribute as authors or reviewers to the completion of the IPCC reports. A large fraction of the relevant scientific community is thus involved in the effort. The three working groups are:

Working Group 1 (WG1), which deals with the physical climate science basis, as assessed by the climatologists, including several of the Realclimate authors.

Working Group 2 (WG2), which deals with impacts of climate change on society and ecosystems, as assessed by social scientists, ecologists, etc.

Working Group 3 (WG3) , which deals with mitigation options for limiting global warming, as assessed by energy experts, economists, etc.

Assessment reports are published every six or seven years and writing them takes about three years. Each working group publishes one of the three volumes of each assessment. The focus of the recent allegations is the Fourth Assessment Report (AR4), which was published in 2007. Its three volumes are almost a thousand pages each, in small print. They were written by over 450 lead authors and 800 contributing authors; most were not previous IPCC authors. There are three stages of review involving more than 2,500 expert reviewers who collectively submitted 90,000 review comments on the drafts. These, together with the authors’ responses to them, are all in the public record.

Here’s the section about the one or two genuine error(s) discovered so far in the 3,000-page report:

As far as we’re aware, so far only one–or at most two–legitimate errors have been found in the AR4:

Himalayan glaciers: In a regional chapter on Asia in Volume 2, written by authors from the region, it was erroneously stated that 80% of Himalayan glacier area would very likely be gone by 2035. This is of course not the proper IPCC projection of future glacier decline, which is found in Volume 1 of the report. There we find a 45-page, perfectly valid chapter on glaciers, snow and ice (Chapter 4), with the authors including leading glacier experts (such as our colleague Georg Kaser from Austria, who first discovered the Himalaya error in the WG2 report). There are also several pages on future glacier decline in Chapter 10 (“Global Climate Projections”), where the proper projections are used e.g. to estimate future sea level rise. So the problem here is not that the IPCC’s glacier experts made an incorrect prediction. The problem is that a WG2 chapter, instead of relying on the proper IPCC projections from their WG1 colleagues, cited an unreliable outside source in one place. Fixing this error involves deleting two sentences on page 493 of the WG2 report.

Sea level in the Netherlands: The WG2 report states that “The Netherlands is an example of a country highly susceptible to both sea-level rise and river flooding because 55% of its territory is below sea level”. This sentence was provided by a Dutch government agency – the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency, which has now published a correction stating that the sentence should have read “55 per cent of the Netherlands is at risk of flooding; 26 per cent of the country is below sea level, and 29 per cent is susceptible to river flooding”. It surely will go down as one of the more ironic episodes in its history when the Dutch parliament last Monday derided the IPCC, in a heated debate, for printing information provided by … the Dutch government. In addition, the IPCC notes that there are several definitions of the area below sea level. The Dutch Ministry of Transport uses the figure 60% (below high water level during storms), while others use 30% (below mean sea level). Needless to say, the actual number mentioned in the report has no bearing on any IPCC conclusions and has nothing to do with climate science, and it is questionable whether it should even be counted as an IPCC error.

There’s much more to Gavin Schmidt’s post; he goes on to show that several other issues raised by the denial industry are completely bogus. I highly recommend reading the whole thing, to get a sense of how misleading some of the claims being circulated by the media — spurred on by professional climate change deniers with a track record of dishonesty — really are.

Note that every “skeptic” on Earth is hunting through the thousands of pages of the IPCC AR4 documents looking for errors, but so far, only one genuine mistake has turned up — and it was discovered not by a skeptic, but by one of the IPCC scientists.

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482 comments

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1 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:47:37pm

This should be good for at least a few full-on screaming matches, at least a half-dozen uses of the word "idiot" and maybe even a coupla flounces.

2 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:49:06pm

It'll be interesting to see how people try to balance this article (amazingly well written, too) with the theme that 'there are great systemic problems with the Climate research'.

re: #1 Guanxi88

I'm starting to get the feeling that thats an intentional tactic. If you don't like the debate, you can always reduce it to a screaming match to chase other people off >>

3 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:51:14pm

re: #2 windsagio

It'll be interesting to see how people try to balance this article (amazingly well written, too) with the theme that 'there are great systemic problems with the Climate research'.

I'm starting to get the feeling that thats an intentional tactic. If you don't like the debate, you can always reduce it to a screaming match to chase other people off >>

I know you are but what am I?

4 recusancy  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:51:34pm

re: #2 windsagio

I'm starting to get the feeling that thats an intentional tactic. If you don't like the debate, you can always reduce it to a screaming match to chase other people off

That's Washington in a nutshell since Obama has been elected.

5 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:53:27pm

re: #4 recusancy

Its a few years older than that, but I'm afraid to throw us offtopic this quickly ;)

6 theheat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:53:30pm

re: #3 jamesfirecat

I know you are but what am I?

"I know you are but what am I? Infinity!"

I just watched Pee Wee's Big Adventure again yesterday, and couldn't resist.

7 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:57:50pm

re: #6 theheat

"I know you are but what am I? Infinity!"

I just watched Pee Wee's Big Adventure again yesterday, and couldn't resist.

I don't make trash, I burn it.

Well I guess that makes you a garbage man.

I know you are but what am I?

A garbage man.

I know you are but what am I?

A garbage man.

I know you are but what am I?

A garbage man.

I know you are but what am I?

A garbage man.

Takes one to know one!


(Paraphrasing Simpsons to the best of my ability)

8 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:58:18pm

Wow Charles, great post. Reading the whole thing now.

9 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:58:55pm

Well, this is a damned boring thread, thus far. I have high hopes, however, for this one, and eagerly await the fireworks.

10 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:59:30pm

Where's Dark Falcon? We need someone on the grill.

11 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 1:59:42pm

re: #9 Guanxi88

/trying to fire it up

none of the usual suspects are around, so its gonna be a sleeper for a while :p

12 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:00:02pm
Here’s the section of Shmidt’s post about the one or two genuine error(s) discovered so far:

Typo? Or built in self-referencing, irony inducing error?

13 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:00:38pm

re: #11 windsagio

/trying to fire it up

none of the usual suspects are around, so its gonna be a sleeper for a while :p

Yeah, I'd love to see a coupla good old-fashioned throw-downs.

People underestimate the importance, to both participants and spectators, of these UGLY, ugly threads.

They're quite therapeutic.

14 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:01:34pm

re: #12 wrenchwench

Typo? Or built in self-referencing, irony inducing error?

I have a stiky 'c' key.

15 Doug Wild  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:02:36pm

Unfortunately this article doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell to influence thinking when the whole climate change argument is being framed around the fact there has been a lot of snow lately. As long as the punditry keep talking about events unrelated to the subject, the truth will remain obscured.

16 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:02:48pm

Himalayan glaciers: In a regional chapter on Asia in Volume 2, written by authors from the region, it was erroneously stated that 80% of Himalayan glacier area would very likely be gone by 2035. This is of course not the proper IPCC projection of future glacier decline, which is found in Volume 1 of the report. There we find a 45-page, perfectly valid chapter on glaciers, snow and ice (Chapter 4), with the authors including leading glacier experts (such as our colleague Georg Kaser from Austria, who first discovered the Himalaya error in the WG2 report).

There's a conspiracy alright. A conspiracy of science. The IPCC contributing scientist corrected erroneous information that contributed to the report. Such is science.

17 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:03:53pm

Quibbles. It's all freaking quibbles. Meaningless.

18 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:05:23pm

re: #17 Rightwingconspirator

How much snow are they getting in the northeast??

19 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:05:48pm

re: #16 BigPapa

This is what I don't get about most of the 'skeptics'-- they seem not to understand that science is self-correcting.

I'm not sure which is scaring me more, the specter of AGW looming for our children and grandchildren, or the deep, deep anti-science sentiment that I fear is quickly sapping America's strength as a nation.

The country that leads in science will lead in the economy, will lead militarily. We need science more than any other aspect of our culture right now.

20 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:05:52pm

re: #17 Rightwingconspirator

Someday I wanna have a discussion about the motivations behind the anti-agw crowd. There are 2 main ones I can think of off hand, and I think its worth returning to, each time the fight comes up.

They have to quibble because the important thing is getting the right result, not the actual science.

21 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:06:01pm

I don't see what this article has to do with anything. It dosn't even mention Al Gore or the FACT that it's snowing TONS right now and I have to where a sweater when at this time of year I NEVER where a sweater.

22 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:06:08pm

re: #15 Doug Wild

Unfortunately this article doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell to influence thinking when the whole climate change argument is being framed around the fact there has been a lot of snow lately. As long as the punditry keep talking about events unrelated to the subject, the truth will remain obscured.

That's one way to look at it. The other way is to understand the facts and dash the ignorant banter dished out when people speak of the IPCC, 'the scientists,' or any other iteration of passive aggressive comments posited as observant commentary.

I choose and use the later.

23 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:06:25pm

re: #18 cliffster

Plenty. But Vancouver is warmish for this time of year.

24 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:07:02pm

A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on.
-- Sir Terry Pratchett

25 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:07:13pm

re: #21 Jadespring

I don't see what this article has to do with anything. It dosn't even mention Al Gore or the FACT that it's snowing TONS right now and I have to where a sweater when at this time of year I NEVER where a sweater.

You're new here... sarc or no?

26 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:07:21pm

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

Plenty. But Vancouver is warmish for this time of year.

Yeah, that's jacked up. Are they still trucking in snow?

27 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:07:32pm

re: #24 The Sanity Inspector

A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on.
-- Sir Terry Pratchett

I thought Mark Twain said that.

28 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:07:40pm

I haven't read the article yet, does he go into any detail regarding NASA's website posting of the Himalayan glaciers being gone by 2030 (same as IPCC number -5 years) and then being scrubbed a couple of days after the IPCC error was confirmed?

29 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:07:48pm

I want LVQ in here. If anyone can get the thread rolling, it's that fellow.

30 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:08:07pm

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

I'm trying to remember, doesn't the science predict wildly unpredictable weather as part of the general climate trend anyways?

I seem to have read that somewhere.

31 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:08:16pm

re: #2 windsagio

It'll be interesting to see how people try to balance this article (amazingly well written, too) with the theme that 'there are great systemic problems with the Climate research'.

I'm starting to get the feeling that thats an intentional tactic. If you don't like the debate, you can always reduce it to a screaming match to chase other people off >>

Happens all the time, doesn't it?

32 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:08:29pm

re: #27 Alouette

I thought Mark Twain said that.

Actually, it was Samuel Clemens.

33 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:08:46pm

re: #25 BigPapa

You're new here... sarc or no?

Oh yes. Oops. ///

34 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:08:53pm

re: #15 Doug Wild

Welcome, hatchling.

35 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:08:58pm

Three thousand pages, and every "skeptic" on Earth hard at work going through the documents with a fine-toothed comb to find more, and so far ... ONE genuine mistake has been discovered.

36 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:09:02pm

re: #29 Guanxi88

heh, if I were guaranteed immunity I could get things rolling too, I'm just not as brave as Ludwig :p

37 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:10:47pm

re: #1 Guanxi88

This should be good for at least a few full-on screaming matches, at least a half-dozen uses of the word "idiot" and maybe even a coupla flounces.

At least I learned a new word the other week: "cherem".

38 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:12:42pm

re: #36 windsagio

heh, if I were guaranteed immunity I could get things rolling too, I'm just not as brave as Ludwig :p

Very telling comment on your part, in a number of ways. Are you suggesting that screaming and yelling is a good tactic when discussing AGW or to be honest, anything.

And why do you say "immunity.: Are you saying Ludwig gets special treatment?

39 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:13:04pm

re: #27 Alouette

I thought Mark Twain said that.

It's actually attributed to a number of people; I don't know who originally said it. Mark Twain, like Oscar Wilde, often gets credit for apocryphal quotes.

40 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:13:09pm

OT

I've got a great idea —

Let's take away 10-15 % of the jobs in this country,

so people can get behind on their payments and worry and argue with their spouses and sleep less at night.

It will be really good for their children.

Signed,

The financial and political elite of the USA

41 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:13:11pm

re: #19 Obdicut

This is what I don't get about most of the 'skeptics'-- they seem not to understand that science is self-correcting.

Science is self-correcting, the process in and of itself ensures that it evolves as facts continually come to light. Science is a process. That can bludgeon most any 'but the scientist's were wrong before' tangent very quickly.

re: #20 windsagio

They have to quibble because the important thing is getting the right result, not the actual science.

The actual science is very important now since the anti-science crowd want to criticize it. OK, fine. Let's see the science, warts (errors) and all. The fact that errors are found and corrected should be supportive.

42 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:13:21pm

Ok this is actually kind of weird.

Theres like this... 'everybody waiting for somebody else to say something' energy floating around this thread.


... oops nevermind, somebody is taking up the banner.

43 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:13:46pm

re: #42 windsagio

Ok this is actually kind of weird.

Theres like this... 'everybody waiting for somebody else to say something' energy floating around this thread.

... oops nevermind, somebody is taking up the banner.

Like penguins standing at the edge of an ice floe.

44 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:13:55pm

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

so do you want to fight about anything in particular, or do you just want to fight in general?

45 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:15:00pm

re: #44 windsagio

so do you want to fight about anything in particular, or do you just want to fight in general?

No, I would like an answer to my question. I thought is was valid.

46 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:15:17pm

re: #35 Charles

Three thousand pages, and every "skeptic" on Earth hard at work going through the documents with a fine-toothed comb to find more, and so far ... ONE genuine mistake has been discovered.

Actually, as I read the Real Science article, a skeptic didn't find the error: an IPCC contributor did.

47 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:16:06pm

re: #26 cliffster
re: #30 windsagio


Yes they were over the weekend. I wish people would forget about their immediate weather as far as climate goes. Droughts and record altering temperatures are regular things to have happen. Like rouge waves. Certain forces align and you get some anomaly. My utterly amateur ignorant suspicion is something is holding the temperature trends back, and when that factor ends look out.

I for one do not expect smooth transitions. With or without the A in AGW.

48 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:16:17pm

re: #2 windsagio

If any other body of scientific writing of comparable length, complexity, and multiple authorship on a less controversial subject were scrutinized as much and shown to have only one error, it'd probably win a prize of some sort.

49 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:16:24pm

re: #42 windsagio

Ok this is actually kind of weird.

Theres like this... 'everybody waiting for somebody else to say something' energy floating around this thread.

... oops nevermind, somebody is taking up the banner.

What is there to take? The article makes some good points. I don't think there is any AGW deniers lucking around right now?

50 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:16:43pm

re: #35 Charles

That may in fact be a new high in academic excellence. Or close to it.

51 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:17:08pm

re: #45 Walter L. Newton

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

Very telling comment on your part, in a number of ways. Are you suggesting that screaming and yelling is a good tactic when discussing AGW or to be honest, anything.

And why do you say "immunity.: Are you saying Ludwig gets special treatment?

ok then.

Of course I'm not, I'm criticizing the tactic, just like I'm criticizing the concern-trolling that the anti AGW people on here mask thimselves with.

As to the other bit, its a bit of self-depreciating humor. Ludwig gets a TON of crap for writing the right thing, and I"m not sure its worth the abuse for me.

That good enough?

52 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:17:15pm

re: #43 Guanxi88

Like penguins standing at the edge of an ice floe.

...while the leopard seal circles below.

53 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:17:22pm

re: #47 Rightwingconspirator

In the shorter term, I wish it would snow on the Olympics

54 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:17:23pm

re: #46 BigPapa

Actually, as I read the Real Science article, a skeptic didn't find the error: an IPCC contributor did.

You're correct ... and I noted this point in an addition to my post above.

55 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:18:14pm

re: #15 Doug Wild

It takes energy to produce a snowstorm.

56 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:18:28pm

re: #53 cliffster

Just call the US Navy, after making earthquakes, snow should be easy.
///!

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:18:34pm

re: #37 The Sanity Inspector

At least I learned a new word the other week: "cherem".

Great. Of all the Hebrew words to be teaching people...

"I also added that it was a great pity that Judaism didn't practice excommunication. The woman in the telegram office read that back to me as 'decapitation', and I let it stand."

--Herbert Tarr, Heaven Help Us

58 The Curmudgeon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:19:11pm

Global warming, global cooling, that's nothing. There's a far greater danger facing the planet. If Al Gore ever teamed up with Michael Moore, we'd face the catastrophe of Global Flattening.

59 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:19:26pm

re: #51 windsagio

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

ok then.

Of course I'm not, I'm criticizing the tactic, just like I'm criticizing the concern-trolling that the anti AGW people on here mask thimselves with.

As to the other bit, its a bit of self-depreciating humor. Ludwig gets a TON of crap for writing the right thing, and I"m not sure its worth the abuse for me.

That good enough?

Ludwig gets some push back from the AGW deniers, not well deserved. But most of the crap he gets is from his volatile personality, which in my opinion is very well deserved.

60 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:19:28pm

re: #51 windsagio

re: #38 Walter L. NewtonOf course I'm not, I'm criticizing the tactic, just like I'm criticizing the concern-trolling that the anti AGW people on here mask thimselves with.

As to the other bit, its a bit of self-depreciating humor. Ludwig gets a TON of crap for writing the right thing, and I"m not sure its worth the abuse for me.

Walter doesn't mask shit, and Ludwig gets a ton of crap because he's an asshole. Even though he's right and on the right side of an issue, sportmanship matters as much as the rules of the game.

61 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:19:30pm

re: #6 theheat

"I know you are but what am I? Infinity!"

I just watched Pee Wee's Big Adventure again yesterday, and couldn't resist.

Infinity + N where N = 1 more then the number you say.

62 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:20:45pm

re: #60 BigPapa

Walter doesn't mask shit, and Ludwig gets a ton of crap because he's an asshole. Even though he's right and on the right side of an issue, sportmanship matters as much as the rules of the game.

Thanks... I believe that was a preemptive strike on Windsagio's part. A little testing the waters.

63 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:20:48pm

re: #60 BigPapa

lets not fight about someone thats not here.

I thought we could joke about it, but since it hits a bit too close to home still, I'll gladly retract any mention of any particular person.

64 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:21:36pm

re: #63 windsagio

lets not fight about someone thats not here.

I thought we could joke about it, but since it hits a bit too close to home still, I'll gladly retract any mention of any particular person.

Good idea, don't bring his name up.

65 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:22:17pm

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

I'm glad to admit it was a mistake. Emotions were a bit stronger than I anticipated ;)

66 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:22:54pm

I like Gold Ion Warming

67 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:23:17pm

re: #65 windsagio

I'm glad to admit it was a mistake. Emotions were a bit stronger than I anticipated ;)

I don't see any emotions in this thread.

68 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:23:21pm

About the other thing, yes, I think there are people on here that concern troll on the subject of AGW.

Its the natural response, because the community itself is very important to longterm posters, and being anti-agw will get your ass in a ton of trouble, plenty quick.

69 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:23:32pm

re: #54 Charles

You're correct ... and I noted this point in an addition to my post above.

Good, I think it's a point worth noting that the actual evil conspiracy scientists are the ones making the corrections. I would think there's more errors in there, which does not mean the whole thing should get thrown out.

70 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:24:05pm

Guanxi: I take cash, checks, and PayPal.

71 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:24:16pm

re: #65 windsagio

I'm glad to admit it was a mistake. Emotions were a bit stronger than I anticipated ;)

No... support for your statement was less than anticipated :)

72 torrentprime  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:24:22pm

re: #19 Obdicut


... or the deep, deep anti-science sentiment that I fear is quickly sapping America's strength as a nation.

The country that leads in science will lead in the economy, will lead militarily. We need science more than any other aspect of our culture right now.

Remember the article covering the visit by foreign scientists touring Creationworld in Kentucky? Reading about these visitors to our country pointing and murmuring at the Americans as if they were visiting some perfectly preserved prehistoric culture that hadn't accepted fire yet - or perhaps the lever - made me want to weep.

Science tells you something you don't like about climate? Push a scandal-and-coverrup story.
Science tells you something you don't like about evolution? Push a connection between evolution and genocide.
Science tells you something you don't like about sexuality? Ignore the studies completely or accuse a gay mafia of falsifying the ones you don't like.

/disgusted

73 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:24:37pm
74 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:24:59pm

re: #19 Obdicut

This is what I don't get about most of the 'skeptics'-- they seem not to understand that science is self-correcting.

I'm not sure which is scaring me more, the specter of AGW looming for our children and grandchildren, or the deep, deep anti-science sentiment that I fear is quickly sapping America's strength as a nation.

The country that leads in science will lead in the economy, will lead militarily. We need science more than any other aspect of our culture right now.

We're importing a lot of science and engineering talent from Asia nowadays. But yes, if we can't "grow our own" anymore that's scary bad.

75 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:25:38pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Shit, I meant to link to the google search page.
/ooops

76 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:25:40pm

re: #35 Charles

Three thousand pages, and every "skeptic" on Earth hard at work going through the documents with a fine-toothed comb to find more, and so far ... ONE genuine mistake has been discovered.

Thousands of scientists have been villified by the GOP...Globally...
This is like a bad version of Dr. Frankenstein
The numbers are not lying and why the fuck is it bad to treat our environment like true care-takers? Did I miss something here?
Let's just trash the joint?
The GOP used to be the party of the grown-ups...

77 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:25:40pm

re: #71 Walter L. Newton

I thought we were agreeing to not talk about that subject anymore :p Just not mentioning names doesn't count, its still meta-discussion about a particular poster.

78 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:26:01pm

re: #70 windsagio

Guanxi: I take cash, checks, and PayPal.

Three currencies I'm right out of at the moment.

I got tobacco, some cheap ass tea, and a whole buncha jade.

Oh, and some old postage-paid postcards.

79 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:26:26pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Eric over at Rube State is even banning nirthers now, but now that the credibility suckage already occurred it's too little too late.

80 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:26:27pm

re: #74 The Sanity Inspector

the best solution is to naturalize that talent, then we get the increased knowledge and research base without having to pay for their schooling ;)

81 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:26:31pm

re: #68 windsagio

Whatever we humans are doing to the climate, nature will eventually take control.

So in that sense, in the long run, the anthro part of it is just another ego trip.

82 albusteve  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:26:37pm

re: #66 Thanos

I like Gold Ion Warming


[Video]

darn, here I thought the perfect liquid was vodka

83 Doug Wild  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:27:00pm

re: #49 Walter L. Newton

Maybe someone can stop by over at NewsBusters and invite a few dozen deniers over here for a while. Lord knows their rafters are crawling with them. I’d go myself, but I got the boot for trying to make reasoned arguments. So it goes.

84 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:27:10pm

re: #63 windsagio

lets not fight about someone thats not here.

I thought we could joke about it, but since it hits a bit too close to home still, I'll gladly retract any mention of any particular person.

There's nothing to fight about and nothing to see here, it's a factual statement. I'm an Asshole Researcher and have conclusive proof the He Who Shall Not Be Named has warranted said rating. It will be in my report.

You may like HWSNBN, and that's fine. It's the sportsmanship that sucks. And that really is all there is to it.

85 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:27:16pm

re: #81 Ojoe

the problem is, 'what if it takes control in a post-human world?'

Thats not an optimal solution for us.

86 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:27:56pm

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

Ludwig gets some push back from the AGW deniers, not well deserved. But most of the crap he gets is from his volatile personality, which in my opinion is very well deserved.

LVQ certainly does get some crap for his personality, but it seems that some on the other side of the aisle from him take great advantage of their anonymity. They have no issue throwing around terms like 'Kapo', when in the real world use of such terms would be awfully close to the 'n-word', at least in the circles I travel in.

87 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:28:45pm

re: #79 Thanos

I still can't believe it took them this long to realize that Birthers are crazy. They're going to have to get rid of Glenn Beck eventually too but they haven't figured that out yet.

88 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:29:06pm

re: #58 The Curmudgeon

Global warming, global cooling, that's nothing. There's a far greater danger facing the planet. If Al Gore ever teamed up with Michael Moore, we'd face the catastrophe of Global Flattening.

Yes mock them for being overweight, it's not as if the average American has been trending in that direction recently...

89 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:29:10pm

re: #84 BigPapa

re: #86 McSpiff

Good lord, what have I done?

90 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:29:17pm

re: #86 McSpiff

LVQ certainly does get some crap for his personality, but it seems that some on the other side of the aisle from him take great advantage of their anonymity. They have no issue throwing around terms like 'Kapo', when in the real world use of such terms would be awfully close to the 'n-word', at least in the circles I travel in.

Hell, he's suggest I self-deport, but for all that, I find I can agree with the chap on some things, even if I don't agree with the style.

91 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:29:51pm

re: #85 windsagio

It might, but I think there would be a remnant human population and we'd start over with much more wisdom and humility;

similar things have happened before;

during the time the monks copied out all the old books from the classical world,

for instance.

BBL

92 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:30:22pm

re: #89 windsagio

re: #86 McSpiff

Good lord, what have I done?

Honestly, that's been on my chest for a few weeks, and I wanted to get it off. You just gave me an excuse.

93 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:30:34pm

re: #89 windsagio

re: #86 McSpiff

Good lord, what have I done?

Nothing, it's over, don't worry about it. Think of puppies/daisies/beer.

94 SixDegrees  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:31:06pm

re: #88 jamesfirecat

Yes mock them for being overweight, it's not as if the average American has been trending in that direction recently...

Uh - he said "flattening," not "fattening."

95 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:31:15pm

re: #83 Doug Wild

Maybe someone can stop by over at NewsBusters and invite a few dozen deniers over here for a while. Lord knows their rafters are crawling with them. I’d go myself, but I got the boot for trying to make reasoned arguments. So it goes.

Newsbusters would not be my one-stop shopping place to pick up AGW deniers... they are a bunch of dishonest hacks who purposely make shit up.

They shouldn't be anyones go to place for any information.

96 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:31:58pm

re: #91 Ojoe

It might not be a bad thing to shake stuff up a bit. Or even more than a bit.

97 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:32:24pm

re: #94 SixDegrees

Uh - he said "flattening," not "fattening."

Well to me inherent in the idea of global flattening was the fact that when an overweight person stands on something they crush it flat.

If the joke was suppose to go in another direction I must have missed it...

98 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:32:36pm

re: #91 Ojoe

haha so the best plan I guess is to try to guarantee that your own descendants are survivors, eh?

It might actually be easier than getting us to change our ways as a race, at that.

99 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:32:45pm

re: #96 cliffster

I think there will be some shake out, myself.

100 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:32:54pm

re: #91 Ojoe

It might, but I think there would be a remnant human population and we'd start over with much more wisdom and humility;

similar things have happened before;

during the time the monks copied out all the old books from the classical world,

for instance.

BBL

And if the works that survive the great catastrophe should be Dan Brown novels, a couple dozen years of TV guide, and a few dog-eared copies of the novelization of Caddyshack?

101 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:33:26pm

re: #98 windsagio

Get your kids in Scouts.

Ah, BBL, really.

102 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:33:39pm

re: #96 cliffster

That's still a horrendous catastrophe.

re: #100 Guanxi88

Thats even worse.

103 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:33:49pm

re: #100 Guanxi88

And if the works that survive the great catastrophe should be Dan Brown novels, a couple dozen years of TV guide, and a few dog-eared copies of the novelization of Caddyshack?

Nope - nothing but p0rn. What the fuck was wrong with these people?

104 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:34:16pm

re: #101 Ojoe

we own land with safe fresh water in the mountains! I'll just have to shoot all my cousins... or at least some of them, only so much land to go around ;)

105 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:34:32pm

re: #102 windsagio

That's still a horrendous catastrophe.

re: #100 Guanxi88

Thats even worse.

re: #103 cliffster

Nope - nothing but p0rn. What the fuck was wrong with these people?

That's the problem with a whole "Dark Ages, copying surviving works" plan - you got no guarantee as to what survives and what doesn't.

106 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:34:52pm

re: #104 windsagio

we own land with safe fresh water in the mountains! I'll just have to shoot all my cousins... or at least some of them, only so much land to go around ;)

You do what you have to do.

107 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:34:52pm

re: #103 cliffster

Nope - nothing but p0rn. What the fuck was wrong with these people?

Depends on what kind of pr0n yer talkin bout...

108 SixDegrees  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:35:11pm

re: #97 jamesfirecat

Well to me inherent in the idea of global flattening was the fact that when an overweight person stands on something they crush it flat.

If the joke was suppose to go in another direction I must have missed it...

I took it as a reference to Gore's peculiar penchant for actively denying science, and Moore's for simply being irrational, adding up to the intellectual equivalent of promoting a flat earth.

Which, tangentially, no one in at least the last couple thousand years seems to have ever actually done, but I digress.

In any case, that was my take. I'll happily let the Curmudgeon speak for himself.

109 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:35:11pm

re: #105 Guanxi88

just get the DVD box set: "Omniscance 1.0", and put it somewhere safe :)

110 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:35:14pm

re: #105 Guanxi88

That's the problem with a whole "Dark Ages, copying surviving works" plan - you got no guarantee as to what survives and what doesn't.

I'll be fine. A country boy can survive.

111 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:35:42pm

re: #103 cliffster

Nope - nothing but p0rn. What the fuck was wrong with these people?

Then they would think: "When did these people have time to screw up the environment or destroy civilization with all this sex going on?"

112 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:35:43pm

re: #107 BigPapa

Well, one would hope its not the boring kind :)

113 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:36:29pm

It's a really well written article, but the guy is disingenuous on at least the glacier perspective. He is indicating that it's a large publication and it's bound to have some mistakes, but that's not what happened. The Himalayan glacier prediction was not a mistake nor was it mistakenly added to the IPCC. Dr. Lai has already said he knew full well there was no data substantiating the claim and that he included it to put political pressure on world leaders. He put it in and the rigorous, line by line fact checking of the IPCC report left it in (perhaps for the same reason, we don't know). For Schmidt to come through now and say that if there was glacier expert checking it they would have caught that one is a load of crap. It was known from one of the lead authors to be bogus and Schmidt is obviously just covering up instead of owning up.

How can the rest of what Schmidt says be trusted?

114 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:37:14pm

re: #111 ArchangelMichael
Avatar upding!

115 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:37:25pm

sweet

116 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:37:50pm

re: #81 Ojoe

Seen the documentary on how the magnetic field around the earth is declining 10x faster than thought? Talks about this mid south atlantic hole where satekkiets get damaged by solar radiation.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: www.psc.edu...]

117 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:38:19pm

re: #107 BigPapa

[Link: video.adultswim.com...]

118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:38:38pm

re: #111 ArchangelMichael

heh... avatar ding too.

119 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:39:10pm

re: #117 windsagio

[Link: video.adultswim.com...]

Nothing wrong at all with bringing the mascot in. Carl's a good judge of these things.

120 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:39:27pm

re: #108 SixDegrees

Can you explain how Gore has 'actively denied science', please?

Are you referring to "An Inconvenient Truth"?

121 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:39:51pm

re: #113 TreBob

No it's not a load of crap, if you read the article for Comprehension you will see that the glacier experts were busy checking the physical section, not the section on speculation about regions. The facts that deny the speculation are in the report itself - but I guess you must have missed that part?

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:40:06pm

re: #116 Rightwingconspirator

satekkiets?
sed-a-give?

123 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:40:11pm

re: #113 TreBob

It's a really well written article, but the guy is disingenuous on at least the glacier perspective. He is indicating that it's a large publication and it's bound to have some mistakes, but that's not what happened. The Himalayan glacier prediction was not a mistake nor was it mistakenly added to the IPCC. Dr. Lai has already said he knew full well there was no data substantiating the claim and that he included it to put political pressure on world leaders. He put it in and the rigorous, line by line fact checking of the IPCC report left it in (perhaps for the same reason, we don't know). For Schmidt to come through now and say that if there was glacier expert checking it they would have caught that one is a load of crap. It was known from one of the lead authors to be bogus and Schmidt is obviously just covering up instead of owning up.

How can the rest of what Schmidt says be trusted?

Could we have a link to a quote to Dr. Lai stating that it was " political pressure."

124 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:40:12pm

re: #119 Guanxi88

"I'm so desensitized, its got to be just completely bananas to get me off."


Best... Line... EVER.

125 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:40:15pm

re: #113 TreBob

He put it in and the rigorous, line by line fact checking of the IPCC report left it in (perhaps for the same reason, we don't know). For Schmidt to come through now and say that if there was glacier expert checking it they would have caught that one is a load of crap.
How can the rest of what Schmidt says be trusted?

Because there is rigorous line by line fact checking (whatever that means) does not mean if a line got missed the whole report is bogus. As it reads, an actual glacier expert found the error and reported it.

You are taking one error and tarnishing the work of 1000's of hours subjected by hundreds of people. If the report is so screwed up you should be able to find a bunch more errors.

126 Doug Wild  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:41:11pm

re: #95 Walter L. Newton
They twist everything inside out, upside down and sideways and then pat each other on the back for their cleverness. I have often wondered, what sort of world view are you trying to support if the entire foundation is lie upon lie also know as a complete sack of crap?

127 SixDegrees  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:41:13pm

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

satekkiets?
sed-a-give?

I'm guessing "satellites," with a one-key leftward displacement of the right hand.

128 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:41:27pm

If there's a typo in the King James Bible then it's not the inerrant word of god anymore...

129 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:41:57pm

The UPS man just delivered my new 21 speed 19" Fuji Mountain bike in a big box!! My Company sent it to me as a gift...
I wonder what color it is? Should I open the box or just wait till these Blizzards past...Say..Springtime?
I got a bike in the winter in Indiana.. Why not a nice watch or something?
LOL
You know I'm going to look in the box..you just know it

130 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:42:23pm

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

satekkiets?
sed-a-give?


Give him a SED-A-GIVE?

Eyegore, whose brain did you put in that body? It wasn't Hans Delbrooks was it?

131 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:42:36pm

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

Could we have a link to a quote to Dr. Lai stating that it was " political pressure."

Dr. Lai stating it was political pressure

132 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:42:46pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

I still can't believe it took them this long to realize that Birthers are crazy. They're going to have to get rid of Glenn Beck eventually too but they haven't figured that out yet.

Some folks are just too forgiving and tolerant.

133 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:42:55pm

re: #128 Thanos

If there's a typo in the King James Bible then it's not the inerrant word of god anymore...

If the world is not 6013 years old the whole thing is a rag! Well played sir.

134 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:43:37pm

re: #126 Doug Wild

They twist everything inside out, upside down and sideways and then pat each other on the back for their cleverness. I have often wondered, what sort of world view are you trying to support if the entire foundation is lie upon lie also know as a complete sack of crap?

One does not need to lie if the facts are solid.

135 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:43:42pm

re: #131 cliffster

Dr. Lai stating it was political pressure

Gah! Ya bastahd!

136 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:44:03pm

re: #130 jamesfirecat

Give him a SED-A-GIVE?

Eyegore, whose brain did you put in that body? It wasn't Hans Delbrooks was it?

Abby Someone.

137 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:44:07pm

i is old skool

138 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:44:21pm

re: #136 ArchangelMichael

Abby Someone.

Abby... normal?

139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:45:04pm

re: #127 SixDegrees

(I know silly)

140 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:45:42pm

re: #131 cliffster

Dr. Lai stating it was political pressure

So, you can't back up the statement either.

141 SixDegrees  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:45:42pm

re: #139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(I know silly)

Sorry. I'm in pedant mode this evening.

142 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:46:31pm

re: #141 SixDegrees

pendantry is mad fun!

143 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:46:46pm

Karma: -4


TreBob
(Logged in)
Registered since: Nov 18, 2006 at 2:21 pm
No. of comments posted: 19
No. of links posted: 0

Has DF started the grill yet?

144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:47:15pm

DING DING DING DING!!! HOOSIER HOOPS GAVE ME MY 20,000TH DING!

Well, he gave me 20,000 karma, anyway.

145 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:47:25pm

re: #138 jamesfirecat

Abby... normal?

I'm almost sure that was the name.

146 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:47:31pm

re: #143 Bubblehead II

Karma: -4

TreBob
(Logged in)
Registered since: Nov 18, 2006 at 2:21 pm
No. of comments posted: 19
No. of links posted: 0

Has DF started the grill yet?

The only thing on the menu tonight is me.

147 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:48:03pm

So the problem here is not that the IPCC’s glacier experts made an incorrect prediction. The problem is that a WG2 chapter, instead of relying on the proper IPCC projections from their WG1 colleagues, cited an unreliable outside source in one place. Fixing this error involves deleting two sentences on page 493 of the WG2 report.

How can we trust somebody calling into question the entire IPCC report on such a specious and minimally consequential factoid?

148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:48:57pm

re: #145 ArchangelMichael

I'm almost sure that was the name.

heh

149 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:48:59pm

re: #144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DING DING DING DING!!! HOOSIER HOOPS GAVE ME MY 20,000TH DING!

Well, he gave me 20,000 karma, anyway.

please report for carousel...

150 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:49:21pm

re: #149 brookly red

+ for heavy-handed sci-fi.

151 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:50:13pm

re: #146 Walter L. Newton

Was it you who was supposed to be posting a global warming paper today?

152 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:50:36pm

re: #144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

you need to start fishing for -'s, try to stay at exactly 20k as long as possible >>

153 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:50:38pm

re: #149 brookly red

Upding for the Logans Run reference.

154 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:50:41pm

re: #145 ArchangelMichael

I'm almost sure that was the name.

Do you mean to tell me that I put an abnormal brain into a four hundred pound EIGHT AND A HALF FOOT TALL GORILLA?

155 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:51:03pm

re: #144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DING DING DING DING!!! HOOSIER HOOPS GAVE ME MY 20,000TH DING!

Well, he gave me 20,000 karma, anyway.

20,000 plus 5. Nice!

156 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:51:33pm

re: #127 SixDegrees


Thanks! (One handed typing/multitasking)

157 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:51:36pm

I'm downdinging every single FBV comment until he gets back to 19,000

158 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:51:48pm

re: #149 brookly red

please report for carousel...

Funny that you said that. I specifically said ding FOUR times so no one could make a "Meet Me In St. Louis" Judy Garland joke.

159 Doug Wild  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:51:57pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

I still can't believe it took them this long to realize that Birthers are crazy. They're going to have to get rid of Glenn Beck eventually too but they haven't figured that out yet.

Can we put Glenn Beck, the Birthers and the Tea Partiers in one big leaky boat and tow them out to sea?

160 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:52:02pm

re: #157 cliffster

Harsher.

161 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:52:19pm
Could we have a link to a quote to Dr. Lai stating that it was " political pressure."

There were a number around the end of January. This is one: [Link: www.sciencenews.org...] or you can google/bing/etc if you wish.

162 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:52:46pm

re: #151 Bubblehead II

Was it you who was supposed to be posting a global warming paper today?

I read that on another blog. This is the day Walter jumps ship or get banned. It must be true, I read it on the internet. /s

163 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:53:08pm

re: #136 ArchangelMichael

Abby Someone.

Normal.


164 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:53:54pm

re: #134 Walter L. Newton

One does not need to lie if the facts are solid.

Good evening Walter...
Did you spill your guts yet tonight with your 14,000 page White paper?
*wink*
Check this link out...Our scientists deserve better tools.. I'd like to see more funding for better software..
[Link: www.2blowhards.com...]

I'd say write your Congressman Walter but there is a probably already a special folder directed by Outlook rules in your Congressman's mailbox called 'Walter'...
*wink*
/Hope today finds you well

165 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:54:17pm

re: #157 cliffster

I'm downdinging every single FBV comment until he gets back to 19,000

Gonna' kick some puppies next?

166 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:56:21pm

Summary:

Note that every “skeptic” on Earth is hunting through the thousands of pages of the IPCC AR4 documents looking for errors,

but no research? //

167 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:57:22pm

re: #162 avanti

Wading around in the swamps again?

168 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:57:28pm

re: #151 Bubblehead II

Was it you who was supposed to be posting a global warming paper today?

I will be posting a 7 comment long monograph that I have developed about the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University. I have made the claim (as has many others) that over the years their legacy programs produced data that was inaccurate.

This is something I have been talking about for months, but due to the restrictions that Charles had placed on publishing or linking to any of the "hacked" material that was stolen from CRU, I have not been able to properly lay out my contentions.

Charles has given me permission no to do just that, and I will be posting the essay tonight, on some thread, around 6:00 pm mountain time.

169 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:57:43pm

re: #165 MandyManners

Gonna' kick some puppies next?

He's probably got a bumper sticker that says "I ♣ Baby Seals" as well.

170 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:58:43pm

re: #161 TreBob

There were a number around the end of January. This is one: [Link: www.sciencenews.org...] or you can google/bing/etc if you wish.

So what do you state this says about the IPCC report, as a whole?

171 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 2:59:09pm

re: #121 Thanos

No it's not a load of crap, if you read the article for Comprehension you will see that the glacier experts were busy checking the physical section, not the section on speculation about regions. The facts that deny the speculation are in the report itself - but I guess you must have missed that part?

You're missing the point. The glacier disappearing reference wasn't a mistake and to continue to consider it as one is in error. It was deliberately added knowing there wasn't serious data to substantiate it and done so to put political pressure on world leaders. For Mr. Schmidt or anyone to treat this addition as just a mistake in fact checking is ridiculous.

172 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:00:03pm

re: #168 Walter L. Newton

Cool. I will be sure to take a look at it.

173 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:00:16pm

re: #167 Bubblehead II

Wading around in the swamps again?

It's my comedy break. If I stayed just on here, I'd tend to think that all conservatives are sane and rational and that would mess up my world view.

174 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:00:18pm

re: #169 ArchangelMichael

He's probably got a bumper sticker that says "I ♣ Baby Seals" as well.

You're lucky you're not a baby seal, and in the same room with me.

175 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:00:23pm

re: #164 HoosierHoops

Good evening Walter...
Did you spill your guts yet tonight with your 14,000 page White paper?
*wink*
Check this link out...Our scientists deserve better tools.. I'd like to see more funding for better software..
[Link: www.2blowhards.com...]

I'd say write your Congressman Walter but there is a probably already a special folder directed by Outlook rules in your Congressman's mailbox called 'Walter'...
*wink*
/Hope today finds you well

The monograph will be posted tonight around 6:00 pm mountain time. It's not 14 pages. And I made a little mistake, it's not 14 thousand words. When I was doing a word count, I saw 14 thousand plus on the CHARACTER count, not word count.

It is actually about 2500 actual words.

I will also have a link to a PDF of the entire document so anyone wanting to download the entire essay in one piece may do so.

176 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:01:11pm

re: #129 HoosierHoops

Will they ship it to Singapore for you?
What color is it?
I bet you've looked by now!

177 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:01:25pm

re: #171 TreBob

No you are missing the point. One contributor with an agenda for his region does not invalidate the work of thousands of other contributors.

/ you are walking in the desert - you see a turtle on its back...

178 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:01:29pm

re: #144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DING DING DING DING!!! HOOSIER HOOPS GAVE ME MY 20,000TH DING!

Well, he gave me 20,000 karma, anyway.

That is Karma dude!
I'm firing up the Lava Lamp...
Congrads...
You continue to add so much to the blog.. It has been great dude...
I think the first thing I ever posted here my first night was to you..
I'd been reading here for quite awhile before i passed through security..
It was what up dude? out of no where to you..
I think I caught you by surprise..

179 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:01:31pm

re: #170 BigPapa

So what do you state this says about the IPCC report, as a whole?

Let's see what the reporter states (and this is pro science reporter)...

"Let’s hope Pachauri and the rest of the IPCC respond to the Himalayan glacier fiasco and explain promptly how they plan to safeguard the new review from attempts by scientists to seed it with similar well-meaning but ill-conceived conclusions. Non-peer-reviewed conclusions that undermine – perhaps disastrously – the credibility of IPCC and climatology generally."

180 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:01:34pm

re: #167 Bubblehead II

Wading around in the swamps again?

que the music...

[Link: www.marthas-vineyard-vacation-tips.com...]

181 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:03:06pm

Bayh Bayh Baby...
Surprised the heck out of me

182 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:03:08pm

re: #178 HoosierHoops

That is Karma dude!
I'm firing up the Lava Lamp...
Congrads...
You continue to add so much to the blog.. It has been great dude...
I think the first thing I ever posted here my first night was to you..
I'd been reading here for quite awhile before i passed through security..
It was what up dude? out of no where to you..
I think I caught you by surprise..

I especially like his brilliant analysis of farts

183 oldegeezr  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:03:39pm

re: #9 Guanxi88

I’m sorry; but I just won’t have an opinion on Gavin Schmidt’s excellent post at RealClimate, until Rush “weighs in” with his critique of the article…like he did on Al Gore’s latest book.

You can’t be too cautious; there may be some cunning, liberal, progressive, twist of the scientific facts, I was to ignorant to discern…?

184 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:04:20pm

re: #177 Thanos

No you are missing the point. One contributor with an agenda for his region does not invalidate the work of thousands of other contributors.

/ you are walking in the desert - you see a turtle on its back...

soup that comes in it's own bowl... cool.

185 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:04:40pm

re: #168 Walter L. Newton

Do I have this right, Walter?

You believe that there is validity to the argument that AGW exists. However, you have a sincere disagreement with the way that you believe the data has been gathered and reported. Which you believe places a great amount of distrust (for lack of a better word) for those who are reporting the data.

In a nutshell? Am I close?

I am going to use every bit of focus I've got to read your monograph, by my reading ability tends to be monosyllabic and monoparagraphical.

I fear your disappointment if I can't finish reading your treatise.

186 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:04:55pm

re: #177 Thanos

No you are missing the point. One contributor with an agenda for his region does not invalidate the work of thousands of other contributors.

/ you are walking in the desert - you see a turtle on its back...

Why aren't you helping it?

187 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:05:14pm

re: #171 TreBob

You're missing the point. The glacier disappearing reference wasn't a mistake and to continue to consider it as one is in error. It was deliberately added knowing there wasn't serious data to substantiate it and done so to put political pressure on world leaders. For Mr. Schmidt or anyone to treat this addition as just a mistake in fact checking is ridiculous.

No, you're distorting where the mistake and the 'pressure' was. Deliberately, who knows.

At it's very worst Dr Lai, assuming he was a Gore acolyte, made an assertion to ply political leaders, in and of itself is politics. Let's assume the worst of that is true.

The error was the fact checking and peer review process that did not catch this insertion of 'grey material' submitted by Dr Lai.

Your assertion that is is more than an error is ridiculous. The Denial Industry pulls the same shit you accuse Dr Lai of regularly.

188 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:05:33pm

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

When you’re young, you look at television and think, There’s a conspiracy. The networks have conspired to dumb us down. But when you get a little older, you realize that’s not true. The networks are in business to give people exactly what they want. That’s a far more depressing thought. Conspiracy is optimistic! You can shoot the bastards! We can have a revolution! But the networks are really in business to give people what they want. It’s the truth.

— Steve Jobs

Nobody wants Global Warming./

189 torrentprime  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:05:38pm

re: #173 avanti

It's my comedy break. If I stayed just on here, I'd tend to think that all conservatives are sane and rational and that would mess up my world view.

I have one of those places too!

190 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:05:39pm

re: #144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DING DING DING DING!!! HOOSIER HOOPS GAVE ME MY 20,000TH DING!

Well, he gave me 20,000 karma, anyway.

Heh.
That made me go check my karma, to see how far away I was from my 20,000 karma point.

Surprised to find out I was already there.

191 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:06:11pm

re: #162 avanti

I read that on another blog. This is the day Walter jumps ship or get banned. It must be true, I read it on the internet. /s

What blog?

And why do you think I am going to get banned? I have no intention of getting banned. Why would I get banned?

I am posting a long essay, one that I even have permission to post. Whether the article is good, bad or indifferent, why would Charles ban me?

Do you know something I don't know?

192 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:07:27pm

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

Let's see what the reporter states (and this is pro science reporter)...

"Let’s hope Pachauri and the rest of the IPCC respond to the Himalayan glacier fiasco and explain promptly how they plan to safeguard the new review from attempts by scientists to seed it with similar well-meaning but ill-conceived conclusions. Non-peer-reviewed conclusions that undermine – perhaps disastrously – the credibility of IPCC and climatology generally."

That's exactly the right response.

193 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:08:14pm

re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

Great. Of all the Hebrew words to be teaching people...

"I also added that it was a great pity that Judaism didn't practice excommunication. The woman in the telegram office read that back to me as 'decapitation', and I let it stand."

--Herbert Tarr, Heaven Help Us

It sounds a lot like the Arabic "haraam".

194 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:08:22pm

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

There was a sarc there. Chill.

195 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:08:41pm

re: #176 Floral Giraffe

Will they ship it to Singapore for you?
What color is it?
I bet you've looked by now!

ooohhh It's nice.. A black Fuji 21 speed...I'll ride it spring and summer then throw into storage with the rest of my stuff...
Except the stuff the old man wants.. Like the Big Screen Samsung...

196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:08:53pm

re: #190 reine.de.tout

Well, lah di frickin' dah.

:)

197 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:08:55pm

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

Let's see what the reporter states (and this is pro science reporter)...

"Let’s hope Pachauri and the rest of the IPCC respond to the Himalayan glacier fiasco and explain promptly how they plan to safeguard the new review from attempts by scientists to seed it with similar well-meaning but ill-conceived conclusions. Non-peer-reviewed conclusions that undermine – perhaps disastrously – the credibility of IPCC and climatology generally."

I think scientists like everyone else risk trying too hard to state a opinion that they hold strongly by getting loose with some conclusions. Al Gore is a perfect example for a non scientist. His basic premise was strong, but he may have gone over the top with some of his doom and gloom predictions. As with many subjects, the facts can stand on their own, no need to embellish for emphasis.

198 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:09:23pm

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

Now you're a paranoid grouch?

199 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:09:46pm

re: #195 HoosierHoops

ooohhh Like the Big Screen Samsung...

As if you need that for 10 open LGF threads.

200 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:10:00pm

re: #173 avanti

I can understand that. I drop by the Shreakers place every now and again to take a gander at the insanity. Every time I drop by I scroll through the postings and have noticed that she isn't getting a lot of comments on anything she posts.

201 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:10:09pm

re: #185 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do I have this right, Walter?

You believe that there is validity to the argument that AGW exists. However, you have a sincere disagreement with the way that you believe the data has been gathered and reported. Which you believe places a great amount of distrust (for lack of a better word) for those who are reporting the data.

In a nutshell? Am I close?

I am going to use every bit of focus I've got to read your monograph, by my reading ability tends to be monosyllabic and monoparagraphical.

I fear your disappointment if I can't finish reading your treatise.

Almost right.

Look at it this way. When we discuss Pat Robertson, are we trying to deny the whole of Christianity? When Charles links to an article about racists in the GOP, is he trying to deny the validity of the whole conservative movement?

I don't think any of us are trying to abolish Christianity or the GOP, no more than I am trying to deny climate change.

Period.

202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:10:24pm

re: #198 cliffster

Did you read what he was responding to?

It ain't paranoia if everybody is out to get you.

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:10:54pm

re: #193 The Sanity Inspector

It sounds a lot like the Arabic "haraam".

It may well share a root, although I don't know.

(Note, the Hebrew word 'achbar' and the Arabic word 'akbar' are not cognates. Contrary to possible prior reports, God is NOT a mouse. Except according to mouse theologians.)

204 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:11:00pm

re: #80 windsagio

the best solution is to naturalize that talent, then we get the increased knowledge and research base without having to pay for their schooling ;)

/Insert analogy about ancient Romans surrendering their civic responsibilities to imported Germans./

205 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:11:11pm

re: #198 cliffster

Now you're a paranoid grouch?

Mr. Cankypants to you.

206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:11:13pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

Thanks.

I am looking forward to attempting to read your thang.

207 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:11:49pm

re: #200 Bubblehead II

Shreaker? That's a novel typo. Hope it catches on.

208 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:11:57pm

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you read what he was responding to?

It ain't paranoia if everybody is out to get you.

Ooohh, good point. I had no idea Mr Crankypants was so famous

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:11:57pm

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

What blog?

And why do you think I am going to get banned? I have no intention of getting banned. Why would I get banned?

I am posting a long essay, one that I even have permission to post. Whether the article is good, bad or indifferent, why would Charles ban me?

Do you know something I don't know?

I'm going to guess. On what blog would they be following with interest an internal matter on this blog?

210 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:12:02pm

re: #196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, lah di frickin' dah.

:)

argh!
Sorry, I didn't intend to upstage your accomplishment!
Twenty lashes for me!

I was just surprised, is all.

211 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:12:04pm

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you read what he was responding to?

It ain't paranoia if everybody is out to get you.

You're so right about that... wait... you were being nice to me, right... or?

212 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:12:17pm

re: #195 HoosierHoops

And, the Beemer...

213 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:12:34pm

re: #180 brookly red

I am so sick of that music. We have 4 Jaws game where I work and that theme plays every 5 minutes.

214 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:12:53pm

re: #170 BigPapa

So what do you state this says about the IPCC report, as a whole?

Umm.. The U.N. and governments/bureaucracies in general are chocked full of boobs?

215 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:12:54pm

re: #189 torrentprime

I have one of those places too!

Yep, that's a crazy place too.

216 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:13:53pm

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm going to guess. On what blog would they be following with interest an internal matter on this blog?

I don't know... really, I have never been to the "stalker" blogs. For a matter of facts, the few times I have tried to google them, trying to find them, I get a few links to places that look like they haven't had any traffic in months.

I don't really find any fascination in that sort of stuff.

217 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:14:26pm

re: #205 Walter L. Newton

Mr. CRankypants to you.

FTFY.

218 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:14:28pm

re: #214 TreBob

Umm.. The U.N. and governments/bureaucracies in general are chocked full of boobs?

Answer the question about the IPCC.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:14:31pm

re: #213 Bubblehead II

I am so sick of that music. We have 4 Jaws game where I work and that theme plays every 5 minutes.

Sorry. I can remember by heart several of the top ten radio songs from the last summer I worked retail, and I turn slightly green when any of them come on.

We begged to be allowed to tune the station to something else, but management sent back word that they wanted a 'hip-hop' atmosphere. Since we were not playing hip-hop, we determined that they might have meant a 'hip' atmosphere, but no one was totally sure about that.

220 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:14:32pm

re: #212 Floral Giraffe

And, the Beemer...

One of the kids will put a dent in it...

221 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:14:57pm

re: #214 TreBob

Umm.. The U.N. and governments/bureaucracies in general are chocked full of boobs?

Wrong answer. May be the truth, probably the truth, but in context of the discussion, wrong answer. Doesn't advance your point one bit.

Try again.

222 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:15:10pm

re: #214 TreBob

Umm.. The U.N. and governments/bureaucracies in general are chocked full of boobs?

Mostly men last time I looked.

223 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:15:14pm

re: #187 BigPapa

The Denial Industry pulls the same shit you accuse Dr Lai of regularly.

I didn't accuse Dr. Lai of anything. He said those things about his actions.

224 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:15:24pm

re: #79 Thanos

Eric over at Rube State is even banning nirthers now, but now that the credibility suckage already occurred it's too little too late.

You can only have one reputation at a time.

225 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:16:35pm

re: #222 Naso Tang

Mostly men last time I looked.

man boobs, ewww.

226 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:16:54pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry. I can remember by heart several of the top ten radio songs from the last summer I worked retail, and I turn slightly green when any of them come on.

We begged to be allowed to tune the station to something else, but management sent back word that they wanted a 'hip-hop' atmosphere. Since we were not playing hip-hop, we determined that they might have meant a 'hip' atmosphere, but no one was totally sure about that.

Retail has ruined Christmas music for millions.

227 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:17:28pm

re: #224 The Sanity Inspector

You can only have one reputation at a time.

that depends on who you ask...

228 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:18:22pm

All the conspiracy talk flying around AGW science puts me in mind of this 80s song, for some reason. A vibe of creepy, secretive cabals, I guess...

229 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:18:50pm

re: #224 The Sanity Inspector

You can only have one reputation at a time.

You may pretend you have one reputation at a time, but if you are a politician which one depends on who who you are addressing.

230 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:19:21pm

re: #197 avanti

I think scientists like everyone else risk trying too hard to state a opinion that they hold strongly by getting loose with some conclusions. Al Gore is a perfect example for a non scientist. His basic premise was strong, but he may have gone over the top with some of his doom and gloom predictions. As with many subjects, the facts can stand on their own, no need to embellish for emphasis.

I take your comments as intellectual honesty. If you are honest intellectually, you'll question errors of fact that both support or hurt your opinion of a particular issue. Your analogies are spot on. You can be a atheist and still defend inaccurate slams of faith for example. You can disagree with Bush or Obama's policies and not suffer from BDS/ODS.

231 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:19:34pm

re: #223 TreBob

I didn't accuse Dr. Lai of anything. He said those things about his actions.

That doesn't answer the question, in context, of this discussion. You posted a link to a news article that made a statement: did you not say that because you didn't say it, even though you posted the article saying it?

Please don't play this game, it was boring a long time ago. Man up and say what you mean to say, then stand by it.

232 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:20:26pm

re: #230 avanti

I take your comments as intellectual honesty. If you are honest intellectually, you'll question errors of fact that both support or hurt your opinion of a particular issue. Your analogies are spot on. You can be a atheist and still defend inaccurate slams of faith for example. You can disagree with Bush or Obama's policies and not suffer from BDS/ODS.

Talkin' to yourself?

233 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:20:49pm

re: #230 avanti

pssst, hey - why are you are talking to yourself?

234 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:22:46pm

re: #233 cliffster

pssst, hey - why are you are talking to yourself?

Listen to yourself..

235 oldegeezr  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:24:17pm

re: #186 Guanxi88

Well, you might not be helping the turtle?

The turtle was at the top of the dune and considered the possibility getting some sun on his abs…

Now, if I slide down rapidly, hit that rock at the bottom just right, it might flip me over and I could absorb lots of vitamin D, where I need it most, on my belly.

Wheee…clunk…[flipping]…yowser…perfect….!

Don’t mess with Mother Nature.

236 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:24:38pm

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

What blog?

And why do you think I am going to get banned? I have no intention of getting banned. Why would I get banned?

I am posting a long essay, one that I even have permission to post. Whether the article is good, bad or indifferent, why would Charles ban me?

Do you know something I don't know?

I don't think you are going to be banned Walter, but some others think so little of LGF that they feel you will, total Charles derangement syndrome.

237 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:24:40pm

re: #231 BigPapa

Hey! How is Hawaii tonight? We are almost snowed in and more snow is coming soon..
a thousand updings for a nice Warm story that involves Hawaii, swimming and Kona coffees and the occasional bikini on the beach...

238 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:24:56pm

re: #234 Naso Tang

Listen to yourself..

I like to listen to my self... it's when other people tell me what I said that sucks.

239 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:24:57pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry. I can remember by heart several of the top ten radio songs from the last summer I worked retail, and I turn slightly green when any of them come on.

We begged to be allowed to tune the station to something else, but management sent back word that they wanted a 'hip-hop' atmosphere. Since we were not playing hip-hop, we determined that they might have meant a 'hip' atmosphere, but no one was totally sure about that.

The worst store music EVER is at Marshall's. I love that store, but the muzak is horrible, and played at top volume.

240 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:25:32pm

re: #232 reine.de.tout

Talkin' to yourself?

Yea, that was meant to be a reply to Walter's post, sorry.

241 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:25:39pm

re: #235 oldegeezr

Well, you might not be helping the turtle?

The turtle was at the top of the dune and considered the possibility getting some sun on his abs…

Wheee…clunk…[flipping]…yowser …perfect….!

Don’t mess with Mother Nature.

They're just questions, Leon. In answer to your query, they're written down for me. It's a test, designed to provoke an emotional response... Shall we go on?

Describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.

242 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:26:39pm

re: #233 cliffster

pssst, hey - why are you are talking to yourself?

It's been a rough week, but I do chat with myself on occasion.

243 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:27:04pm

re: #187 BigPapa

No, you're distorting where the mistake and the 'pressure' was. Deliberately, who knows.

At it's very worst Dr Lai, assuming he was a Gore acolyte, made an assertion to ply political leaders, in and of itself is politics. Let's assume the worst of that is true.

The error was the fact checking and peer review process that did not catch this insertion of 'grey material' submitted by Dr Lai.

Your assertion that is is more than an error is ridiculous. The Denial Industry pulls the same shit you accuse Dr Lai of regularly.

So Lai didn't lie?

244 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:27:21pm

Off all the AGW/Climategate threads to date, this one has been very, very dull.

My original hopes for flounces, screaming, and all the rest of it just sort of evaporated?

What if they called a war, and nobody came?

245 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:28:09pm

re: #207 Naso Tang

I can not for the life of me remember how to spell that dang word. Had to look it up in Webster's (shrieker)

246 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:28:16pm

re: #242 avanti

It's been a rough week, but I do chat with myself on occasion.

"I'll have what I'm having." A customer in the Schizophrenia Cafe, in a John Callahan cartoon.

247 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:28:18pm

re: #236 avanti

I don't think you are going to be banned Walter, but some others think so little of LGF that they feel you will, total Charles derangement syndrome.

Who? I asked above, which blog.

No matter what I do or say to Charles or other Lizards here, I consider this blog to be my home, whether these other people out in blog-o-land like it or not.

248 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:28:23pm

re: #244 Guanxi88

The other side is gearing up for their next counter claim, the crop yield in Africa thing.

249 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:28:30pm

re: #244 Guanxi88

Off all the AGW/Climategate threads to date, this one has been very, very dull.

My original hopes for flounces, screaming, and all the rest of it just sort of evaporated?

What if they called a war, and nobody came?

Expect a frontal troll attack later.

250 albusteve  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:28:38pm

re: #244 Guanxi88

Off all the AGW/Climategate threads to date, this one has been very, very dull.

My original hopes for flounces, screaming, and all the rest of it just sort of evaporated?

What if they called a war, and nobody came?

burn out...what more can be said?

251 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:28:44pm

re: #244 Guanxi88

Off all the AGW/Climategate threads to date, this one has been very, very dull.

My original hopes for flounces, screaming, and all the rest of it just sort of evaporated?

What if they called a war, and nobody came?

/it's quiet... too quiet... where are the birds?

252 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:28:54pm

re: #248 Thanos

The other side is gearing up for their next counter claim, the crop yield in Africa thing.

Yeah, I, along with a bout a billion starving folk, will be pleased for that piece of good news.

253 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:29:50pm

re: #244 Guanxi88

Off all the AGW/Climategate threads to date, this one has been very, very dull.

My original hopes for flounces, screaming, and all the rest of it just sort of evaporated?

What if they called a war, and nobody came?

My plan to flounce in 2016 remains firm.

254 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:30:00pm

re: #244 Guanxi88

I think global warming is a bunch of horseshit, but you'll never hear me say that here.

255 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:30:04pm

Oh shit...

256 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:30:09pm

re: #248 Thanos

The other side is gearing up for their next counter claim, the crop yield in Africa thing.

What's that one all about?

257 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:30:09pm

re: #249 avanti

Expect a frontal troll attack later.

I'm sure they will come and post to this when it's a dead thread and all the rest of us are upstairs a couple of floors. They think no one is looking.

258 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:30:26pm

Speaking of elevator music, I once heard this in a hotel elevator - it blew me away.

259 albusteve  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:30:33pm

re: #247 Walter L. Newton

Who? I asked above, which blog.

No matter what I do or say to Charles or other Lizards here, I consider this blog to be my home, whether these other people out in blog-o-land like it or not.

the name is so evil, it cannot be spoken!..another quizzical aspect of the whole thing

260 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:31:12pm

re: #250 albusteve

burn out...what more can be said?

You think we could get Avanti and Walter to square off?
/

261 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:31:35pm

re: #259 albusteve

the name is so evil, it cannot be spoken!..another quizzical aspect of the whole thing

Those of Whom We Do Not Speak - one of the most tiresome devices in one of the most predictable films the guy ever made.

262 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:31:49pm

It's an interesting thought, this thing about Al Gore and AGW.

If he hadn't done his thing to stir everybody up and give the Norwegians a hard on; would we now be more rationally discussing the pros and cons or would we be exactly where we are regardless?

263 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:31:51pm

re: #260 HoosierHoops

You think we could get Avanti and Walter to square off?
/

You, let's you and him fight!

264 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:32:20pm

re: #256 Jadespring

"Oh Noes! Someone actually put worst case projections of crop yields during a drought in a report! -- Quick! Call out the ut oh squad..."

265 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:32:39pm

re: #260 HoosierHoops

You think we could get Avanti and Walter to square off?
/

/2 men enter...

266 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:32:53pm

re: #249 avanti

Expect a frontal troll attack later.

OPEN WARNING TO TROLLS

Any trolls that decide to jump into the conversation tonight had better know what they are talking about. I am not going to have any troll coming in here and taking cheap pot shots just because Charles offered me the opportunity to take a position and make a point. Any more than Charles wouldn't stand for any Lizards shitting on a thread.

I will be the first one to call out any trolls.

267 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:32:56pm

re: #245 Bubblehead II

I can not for the life of me remember how to spell that dang word. Had to look it up in Webster's (shrieker)

Yeah, but for the context, as opposed to, say, someone's spouse, it's not a bad alternative.

268 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:33:01pm

re: #262 Naso Tang

It's an interesting thought, this thing about Al Gore and AGW.

If he hadn't done his thing to stir everybody up and give the Norwegians a hard on; would we now be more rationally discussing the pros and cons or would we be exactly where we are regardless?

Now that's an interesting question.

269 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:33:32pm

re: #264 Thanos

"Oh Noes! Someone actually put worst case projections of crop yields during a drought in a report! -- Quick! Call out the ut oh squad..."

LOL. Okay, thanks.

270 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:33:51pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

Well if we keep them much longer they will blend into the background noise along with the rest of the attract noise the games make. But since they are new, they are an anomaly that just gets on my nerves. Sorta like otingoC posts did before I learned to just scroll over them

271 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:34:23pm

re: #247 Walter L. Newton

Who? I asked above, which blog.

No matter what I do or say to Charles or other Lizards here, I consider this blog to be my home, whether these other people out in blog-o-land like it or not.

For reasons unknown to me, or sane folk, the stalker blog still thinks you may leave your home for life in the swamp.

272 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:36:10pm

re: #262 Naso Tang

It's an interesting thought, this thing about Al Gore and AGW.

If he hadn't done his thing to stir everybody up and give the Norwegians a hard on; would we now be more rationally discussing the pros and cons or would we be exactly where we are regardless?

Yes, but only if it lasts for less than 4 hours.

273 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:36:13pm

re: #253 Spare O'Lake

My plan to flounce in 2016 remains firm.

If Palin runs and wins in 2012, I'll give up on politics and you can quote me.:)

274 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:36:49pm

re: #271 avanti

For reasons unknown to me, or sane folk, the stalker blog still thinks you may leave your home for life in the swamp.

So that's where you were yesterday when I asked where you were (Yes, I did. Don't know what came over me. Something about cars, before you get excited).

275 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:36:55pm

re: #271 avanti

For reasons unknown to me, or sane folk, the stalker blog still thinks you may leave your home for life in the swamp.

Ok... I don't know how clear I have to make myself... what is the name of this mysterious blog you keep talking about... I don't know the various stalker blogs... anme names.

276 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:37:00pm

re: #244 Guanxi88

Off all the AGW/Climategate threads to date, this one has been very, very dull.

My original hopes for flounces, screaming, and all the rest of it just sort of evaporated?

What if they called a war, and nobody came?

Listen on! This is the truth of it. Fighting leads to killing, and killing gets to warring. And that was damn near the death of us all. Look at us now, busted up and everyone talking about climate change. But we've learned by the dust of them all. LGF's learned. Now when men get to fighting, it happens here. And it finishes here. Two men enter, one man leaves.

277 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:37:27pm

re: #262 Naso Tang

It's an interesting thought, this thing about Al Gore and AGW.

If he hadn't done his thing to stir everybody up and give the Norwegians a hard on; would we now be more rationally discussing the pros and cons or would we be exactly where we are regardless?

My money would be on a slightly less heated version of the status quo. Discussion-wise, that is.

278 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:37:51pm

re: #273 avanti

Uhhh, that would be the time to did in, much like those on the right did not give up when Mr. Obama became President, or those on the left when Mr. Bush won.

We may disagree Avanti, but don't ever give up on politics, that is what the career politicians want you to do.

279 albusteve  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:38:56pm

re: #275 Walter L. Newton

Ok... I don't know how clear I have to make myself... what is the name of this mysterious blog you keep talking about... I don't know the various stalker blogs... anme names.

there is a silent vow...heh...very ritualistic

280 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:39:17pm

re: #278 Stonemason

and did should be dig

pimf

281 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:39:19pm

re: #272 Spare O'Lake

Yes, but only if it lasts for less than 4 hours.

RPSVP (re-phrase s'il vous plait)

282 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:39:23pm

re: #276 ArchangelMichael

Listen on! This is the truth of it. Fighting leads to killing, and killing gets to warring. And that was damn near the death of us all. Look at us now, busted up and everyone talking about climate change. But we've learned by the dust of them all. LGF's learned. Now when men get to fighting, it happens here. And it finishes here. Two men enter, one man leaves.

Master: These our witness, Aunty. Us suffer bad. Want justice. We want Thunderdome!
Aunty Entity: You know the law: Two men enter, one man leaves.
Master: This Blaster! Twenty men enter, only him leave!
Aunty Entity: Then it's your choice. Thunderdome.

283 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:39:27pm

re: #275 Walter L. Newton

lol why does it matter? Not like he'd have reason to lie on the subject (well that I can see. If there were a reason I'm sure it'd be interesting)

PS: trying not to whine about having to wait, I should be sleeping right now, but I'm waiting for your essay :p

284 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:39:56pm

re: #263 Guanxi88

You, let's you and him fight!

As a joke a few times at parties when I was a Kid.. I'd go over to a big guy in the room and bump him and ask him what the heck does that dude standing in the kitchen has against you?
Me?
Dude he is so trash talking you...He should just hear the shit he is saying about you.. I'd get him all jacked up then tell him I just spun him...
It's very important to heed the following rule...Always make sure everybody in the room knows you are going to do this so prior!Follow that rule and he get a few minutes of pure exciting energy that starts up the party...
/

285 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:40:22pm

re: #282 Guanxi88

Master: These our witness, Aunty. Us suffer bad. Want justice. We want Thunderdome!
Aunty Entity: You know the law: Two men enter, one man leaves.
Master: This Blaster! Twenty men enter, only him leave!
Aunty Entity: Then it's your choice. Thunderdome.

/midterms are gonna be a bitch, huh?

286 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:41:07pm

re: #274 Naso Tang

So that's where you were yesterday when I asked where you were (Yes, I did. Don't know what came over me. Something about cars, before you get excited).

Glad you missed me, but I've been busy on ebay and getting rid of a virus that was giving me internet survey popups.

287 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:41:11pm

re: #285 brookly red

/midterms are gonna be a bitch, huh?

eh? Don't think I follow you there.

288 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:41:17pm

re: #283 windsagio

lol why does it matter? Not like he'd have reason to lie on the subject (well that I can see. If there were a reason I'm sure it'd be interesting)

PS: trying not to whine about having to wait, I should be sleeping right now, but I'm waiting for your essay :p

I like to see my name in print... ok! :)

289 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:41:18pm

re: #284 HoosierHoops

and you get..? :=)

290 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:41:20pm

re: #276 ArchangelMichael

Upding for the great avatar!

291 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:41:34pm

re: #242 avanti

Used to drive my teachers crazy doing that. They just couldn't seem to grasp the concept that I used it as problem solving tool.

292 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:41:52pm

re: #288 Walter L. Newton

that is a most excellent reason!


/actually now that you mention it, I'd wanna konw too, its great to see what crazy people think of you :D

293 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:42:26pm

re: #287 Guanxi88

eh? Don't think I follow you there.

Thunderdome, the midterm elections... like that.

294 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:42:31pm

re: #292 windsagio

that is a most excellent reason!

/actually now that you mention it, I'd wanna konw too, its great to see what crazy people think of you :D

Well, if you're married, and you've got inlaws like mine, you needn't go slumming on the webs for it.

295 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:43:21pm

re: #293 brookly red

Thunderdome, the midterm elections... like that.

Ahh, gotcha. Threw me for a bit of a loop there.

My money's on the scrappy stranger from the Wasteland. I got a feeling about that guy.

296 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:43:58pm

re: #295 Guanxi88

Ahh, gotcha. Threw me for a bit of a loop there.

My money's on the scrappy stranger from the Wasteland. I got a feeling about that guy.

that is a safe bet...

297 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:44:05pm

re: #289 Naso Tang

and you get..? :=)

Mama said I never met a stranger.. I'm not shy

298 albusteve  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:44:08pm

re: #292 windsagio

that is a most excellent reason!

/actually now that you mention it, I'd wanna konw too, its great to see what crazy people think of you :D

changed your mind pretty easily...poof!..from why would anybody care to now I want to know in a couple of short posts

299 windsagio  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:45:58pm

re: #298 albusteve

Humor, amazingly, is disarming.

Walter made a good point, and made me smile at the same moment.

300 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:45:59pm

heh.. I've never heard of a post turtle

Obama is a "post turtle"... when you're driving down a country road and you see a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, thats a post turtle. You know he didnt get up there by himself, he doesn't belong there; he can't get anything done while he's up there. You just want to help the poor dumb thing down.

301 freetoken  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:46:21pm

re: #147 BigPapa

How can we trust somebody calling into question the entire IPCC report on such a specious and minimally consequential factoid?

Those "somebodies" among the active AGW-denier camp (the usual suspects, from Inhofe, to Watts and Monckton) truly love to "strain on a gnat but swallow a camel."

They go through the greatest of histrionics over trivial matters all the while ignoring the lies being spread around, and even more so ignoring the real science involved.

302 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:48:06pm

Charles! Floyd Landis is doing an interview on PTI tonight on ESPN...
Wilbon just said this is going to be bad...60 sec. till it's on here

303 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:50:11pm

re: #302 HoosierHoops

Charles! Floyd Landis is doing an interview on PTI tonight on ESPN...
Wilbon just said this is going to be bad...60 sec. till it's on here

He was framed!

304 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:50:50pm

re: #301 freetoken

Those "somebodies" among the active AGW-denier camp (the usual suspects, from Inhofe, to Watts and Monckton) truly love to "strain on a gnat but swallow a camel."

They go through the greatest of histrionics over trivial matters all the while ignoring the lies being spread around, and even more so ignoring the real science involved.

I don't have any problems with the whole of the IPCC AR4 reports, but the second report is weak in general... as Kevin Trenberth so aptly put it...

"A lot of stuff in there was just not very good," said Kevin Trenberth, head of climate analysis at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and a lead author of the first report. "A chronic problem is that on the whole area of impacts, getting into the realm of social science, it is a softer science. The facts are not as good."

He was talking about the whole of the second report. I think the IPCC should take his and other scientist recent recommendations about these matters.

305 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:51:07pm

re: #300 cliffster

heh.. I've never heard of a post turtle

Obama is a "post turtle"... when you're driving down a country road and you see a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, thats a post turtle. You know he didnt get up there by himself, he doesn't belong there; he can't get anything done while he's up there. You just want to help the poor dumb thing down.

/aaah but, this is a new breed of turtle... it's take the post down with him.

306 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:51:31pm

re: #300 cliffster

heh.. I've never heard of a post turtle

That went around during the election though the one that I got spammed with was Palin instead of Obama.

307 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:52:28pm

re: #305 brookly red

Obama is a "post turtle"... when you're driving down a country road and you see a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, thats a post turtle. You know he didnt get up there by himself, he doesn't belong there; he can't get anything done while he's up there. You just want to help the poor dumb thing down.

/aaah but, this is a new breed of turtle... it's take the post down with him.

That's a "jumpin' post turtle." Actually, he is born with that post on his back and has the amazing ability to jump as high as 6 feet. But sometimes there are complications.

308 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:53:23pm

re: #306 Jadespring

That went around during the election though the one that I got spammed with was Palin instead of Obama.

Both work, you know.

309 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:53:37pm

re: #306 Jadespring

That went around during the election though the one that I got spammed with was Palin instead of Obama.

I heard it with Bush a few years back. It probably goes back earlier than that.

310 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:53:49pm

re: #284 HoosierHoops

Did you ever just get pounded?

311 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:54:06pm

re: #300 cliffster

heh.. I've never heard of a post turtle

Now you have seen one, too.

312 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:54:58pm

re: #311 MandyManners

Now you have seen one, too.

Oops. Wrong link.

313 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:55:35pm

Well, shoot. It's disappeared.

314 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:56:21pm

I wish the NFL halftimes were like the NBA All-Star game halftimes..
It was great this weekend...And what a game!
But hey Madison Ave dorks: Alica Keys or Beyonce would be awesome..

315 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:56:21pm

re: #313 MandyManners

Well, shoot. It's disappeared.

hmm, worked for me.

316 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:56:27pm

re: #312 MandyManners

Failing at calling someone incompetent. Delicious irony.

317 Cathypop  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:56:43pm

re: #311 MandyManners

Now you have seen one, too.


That is not what I want to see on a Monday evening.

318 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:56:45pm

re: #308 Guanxi88

Both work, you know.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. :D

That ditty has been around for ages. You just basically insert anyone that you might have an issue with, whether it's political or even say like your boss and at work and bingo it's works!

It's a magic ditty.

319 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:57:00pm

Turtle vs Kitty

320 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:57:08pm

re: #307 Walter L. Newton

That's a "jumpin' post turtle." Actually, he is born with that post on his back and has the amazing ability to jump as high as 6 feet. But sometimes there are complications.

//wait... was this caused by evolution or global warming? and does global warming have an effect evolution? was this mentioned in the Bible & can I get a coupla million to study the situation?

321 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:57:39pm

re: #316 McSpiff

wow

322 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:57:44pm

re: #284 HoosierHoops

As a joke a few times at parties when I was a Kid.. I'd go over to a big guy in the room and bump him and ask him what the heck does that dude standing in the kitchen has against you?
Me?
Dude he is so trash talking you...He should just hear the shit he is saying about you.. I'd get him all jacked up then tell him I just spun him...
It's very important to heed the following rule...Always make sure everybody in the room knows you are going to do this so prior!Follow that rule and he get a few minutes of pure exciting energy that starts up the party...
/

So, I tell the bartender:

You see that guy there going into the bathrooms? (he was my rival for the affections of a young lady in our company that evening) It's none of our business (I tilt my head to indicate the female half of the sketch) but he's been stealing tips off the bar. We'd just as soon stay out of it, but I thought you ought to know.

323 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:58:23pm

re: #314 HoosierHoops

I wish the NFL halftimes were like the NBA All-Star game halftimes..
It was great this weekend...And what a game!
But hey Madison Ave dorks: Alica Keys or Beyonce would be awesome..

/in bed

324 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:58:25pm

re: #310 Floral Giraffe

Did you ever just get pounded?

I just survived another Valentine's day... does that count?

325 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:58:45pm

re: #313 MandyManners

How about this one?

Post Turtle

326 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:59:08pm

re: #322 Guanxi88

So, I tell the bartender:

You see that guy there going into the bathrooms? (he was my rival for the affections of a young lady in our company that evening) It's none of our business (I tilt my head to indicate the female half of the sketch) but he's been stealing tips off the bar. We'd just as soon stay out of it, but I thought you ought to know.

That is an EPIC C-Block.

327 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:59:17pm

Woot!

Just got back from seeing "Avatar" for the second time - this time in an Imax theater.

Forget the unicorn. I wants me a dragon.

328 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:59:19pm

re: #325 Bubblehead II

I liked Mandy's better, more realistic

329 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 3:59:59pm

re: #281 Naso Tang

RPSVP (re-phrase s'il vous plait)

Reminds me of once when I was driving across the Peace Bridge. When I stopped and rolled down the window, the border officer asked "citizenship?"...to which I replied "Yes".
And that's when the trouble started.

330 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:00:13pm

re: #240 avanti

Yea, that was meant to be a reply to Walter's post, sorry.

When you've got "auto" on and the thread is moving fast, that is so easy to do -

331 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:00:55pm

re: #275 Walter L. Newton

Ok... I don't know how clear I have to make myself... what is the name of this mysterious blog you keep talking about... I don't know the various stalker blogs... anme names.

We daren't!

332 SixDegrees  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:00:58pm

re: #327 Cato the Elder

Woot!

Just got back from seeing "Avatar" for the second time - this time in an Imax theater.

Forget the unicorn. I wants me a dragon.

Word on the street is that the upcoming The Hobbit will feature a truly astonishing Smaug.

333 albusteve  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:01:01pm

re: #327 Cato the Elder

Woot!

Just got back from seeing "Avatar" for the second time - this time in an Imax theater.

Forget the unicorn. I wants me a dragon.

I know what you mean...I saw Saving Pvt Ryan twice, and I want a P-51

334 cliffster  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:01:11pm

re: #327 Cato the Elder

Avatar was awesome. People who pretend not to like it are trying to be pretentious.

335 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:01:45pm

re: #333 albusteve

I know what you mean...I saw Saving Pvt Ryan twice, and I want a P-51

they don't do well on unleaded...

336 Cathypop  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:02:16pm

re: #332 SixDegrees

Word on the street is that the upcoming The Hobbit will feature a truly astonishing Smaug.

I liked Tolkien's drawing of Smaug.

337 albusteve  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:02:17pm

re: #334 cliffster

Avatar was awesome. People who pretend not to like it are trying to be pretentious.

I didn't like it so much I wouldn't go see it...

338 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:02:42pm

re: #326 ArchangelMichael

That is an EPIC C-Block.

The guy had looks, money, came from a good family, had a winning personality - he was, in short, everything I wasn't. I didn't stand a chance in a fair fight.

But, the sight of him being bounced out of the joint by three muscular fellow for being a "f*cking thief" was all the persuading she needed that maybe she should seek love elsewhere.

339 JohninLondon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:02:57pm

While we wait for Walter's paper, can I revert to the issue that has always most concerned me about the IPCC thesis - the treatment of the Medieval Warming Period ?

It happens that I drive up Vineyard Hill Road in Wimbledon every week towards the ancient village of Wimbledon. (Where Lord North held the fateful meeting of Ministers that decided to reject the complaints of the pesky colonists. Where there are some fine houses that pre-date that meeting.

I cannot but conclude that Vineyard Hill Road is just one example of the "anecdotal" evidence that there was in earlier times a much warmer climate than we have now over here. There are of course many other examples of such anecdotal evidence, in my mind enough to suggest that folk history of a warm period is not a fairy tale. Even the word "anecdotal" is a dismissive term - my sense is that there is lots of HISTORICAL evidence of a relatively warm period - historical in the sense of contemporary reports of agricultural conditions - and then of rivers that froze then but do not freeze now.

But the Mann et al Hockey Stick shows no such period, or any subsequent cooling period. OK, it has been argued that the MWP might have been restricted to the northern hemisphere - but even Phil Jones in his answers to the BBC appears to concede that there may very well have been an MWP in our hemisphere. (Some suggest that there are quite a few strands of evidence of warming in the southern hemisphere at about the same time - others of course may dispute this.)

The thrust of the IPCC case is that there is UNPRECEDENTED warming. But the figures in the Jones answers do not suggest that the rate of temperature increase is unprecedented even in relatively recent times. And IF - I repeat IF - there indeed was a Medieval Warming Period with temperatures above current levels - where is the case for saying that today's climate is unprecedented ?

All of this has nothing to do with arguments about the effects of CO2. Nor is it about the degree of statistical certainty about recent temperature change. Nor is it about what amount of temperature increase would be highly adverse, nor is it about whether policy proposals such as cap-and-trade, Copenhagen/Cancun etc are appropriate, or whether mankind could adapt in other ways to moderate temperature increases.

...

In a nutshell - why should I believe that there was not an MWP with temperatures well higher than now ? Why should I believe the flat line of the Hockey Stick ?

It is simply about - is our recent climate unprecedented ? I am yet to be persuaded that it is.

340 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:03:27pm

re: #327 Cato the Elder

You wouldn't need to shovel snow, if you had a dragon!

341 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:03:54pm

re: #335 brookly red

they don't do well on unleaded...

Either that or they're upset that Jesus didn't ride in to save the day for the Earthlings...

342 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:03:58pm

re: #315 cliffster

hmm, worked for me.

There was a graphic out there of BHO as a post-turtle.

343 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:04:28pm

re: #316 McSpiff

Failing at calling someone incompetent. Delicious irony.

I was not "calling" him anything.

344 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:04:49pm

re: #317 Cathypop

That is not what I want to see on a Monday evening.

Sorry 'bout that.

345 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:05:15pm

re: #341 Cato the Elder

Either that or they're upset that Jesus didn't ride in to save the day for the Earthlings...

what do you make of the blue palis...

346 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:05:27pm

re: #325 Bubblehead II

How about this one?

Post Turtle

Beautiful.

347 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:06:20pm

re: #345 brookly red

what do you make of the blue palis...

Umm...you been drinking already?

348 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:07:00pm

re: #322 Guanxi88

So, I tell the bartender:

You see that guy there going into the bathrooms? (he was my rival for the affections of a young lady in our company that evening) It's none of our business (I tilt my head to indicate the female half of the sketch) but he's been stealing tips off the bar. We'd just as soon stay out of it, but I thought you ought to know.

Dayamn!

349 oldegeezr  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:07:22pm

re: #241 Guanxi88

“…Describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.”

All of them singly, why singly?

The list was quite long, in the plural sense, as I enumerated in my eulogy to her. Boring for you, important to me…thanks for asking!

Perhaps you were referring too, my second, Mother Nature…?

350 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:07:28pm

re: #310 Floral Giraffe

Did you ever just get pounded?

Surprising...I have been in very few fights in my life...I'll never forget in 7th grade on friday night my best friend talked me into going to the football game and beating the crap out of kids under the stands..( our little fight club )
I Started well.. I floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee.. And then got the holy hell beat out of me..
I told Gary that he had a really had a shitty idea for having a good time on a friday night...
I've broken up fights... Mostly my Sons.. Damn they are fighters.. I spent a pic to Sharm once of Jordan with his shirt off standing at the Boxing bag in garage.. You fight Jordan there is going to be pain..You will be hit and you won't like it...

351 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:07:57pm

re: #347 Cato the Elder

Umm...you been drinking already?

it was on Drudge for a coupla days... can't find it now.

352 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:08:27pm

re: #349 oldegeezr

All of them singly, why singly?

The list was quite long, in the plural sense, as I enumerated in my eulogy to her. Boring for you, important to me…thanks for asking!

Perhaps you were referring too, my second, Mother Nature…?

Blade Runner reference.

353 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:08:57pm

re: #347 Cato the Elder

Umm...you been drinking already?

We kid you not.

354 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:09:26pm

re: #349 oldegeezr

All of them singly, why singly?

The list was quite long, in the plural sense, as I enumerated in my eulogy to her. Boring for you, important to me…thanks for asking!

Perhaps you were referring too, my second, Mother Nature…?

He was trying to see if you're human or a skin-job.

We need to ask you some more questions to make a determination.

355 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:09:33pm

re: #346 MandyManners

I just hope they put it back on the ground after they took the shot. Otherwise they were sadistic bastards that deserve the same fate.

357 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:10:54pm

re: #353 The Sanity Inspector

We kid you not.

Oh, jeepers. Now I need a drink.

BBL

358 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:11:21pm

re: #353 The Sanity Inspector

We kid you not.

/can I get a witness?

359 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:12:31pm

re: #355 Bubblehead II

I just hope they put it back on the ground after they took the shot. Otherwise they were sadistic bastards that deserve the same fate.

Oh, you know they did. Sadism of that level is rare.

360 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:12:40pm

re: #357 Cato the Elder

Oh, jeepers. Now I need a drink.

BBL

better make it a double...

361 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:14:55pm

Jeez!

Over 360 comments into a thread on AGW and the IPCC and all the rest of it without a full on food-fight.

362 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:14:55pm

re: #334 cliffster

Avatar was awesome. People who pretend not to like it are trying to be pretentious.

Avatar was an amazing entertainment experience. Who cares if the script was lame? You want great scripts, stay at home and watch old black & white Hitchcock movies.

363 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:15:13pm

Well just because I'm bored and don't feel like doing the dishes yet. I conducted some scientific google research.

The results of post turtle references: Bush= Gold , Obama = Silver, Palin= Bronze.

There does seem to be more Obama photoshop images though.

364 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:16:53pm

re: #361 Guanxi88

Jeez!

Over 360 comments into a thread on AGW and the IPCC and all the rest of it without a full on food-fight.

Hope your popcorn isn't getting stale.

365 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:17:01pm

re: #129 HoosierHoops

Take it out of the box and put it in the living room and enjoy it as art until spring, I would say.

366 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:17:55pm

re: #364 The Sanity Inspector

Hope your popcorn isn't getting stale.

Hell, I ate that ages ago. I'm rummaging around now to see if there's any candy or anything.

Maybe I'll go have a cup of coffee or something.

367 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:18:00pm

re: #362 Alouette

Avatar was an amazing entertainment experience. Who cares if the script was lame? You want great scripts, stay at home and watch old black & white Hitchcock movies.

I enjoyed it...Fun movie...
But really..10' Blue people with tail? Every NBA scout in the world would be signing them up...

368 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:18:31pm

Well, may as well cue up some enviro-tunes...

369 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:18:43pm

re: #350 HoosierHoops

That tendency is what boxing is for.

370 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:18:50pm

re: #367 HoosierHoops

I enjoyed it...Fun movie...
But really..10' Blue people with tail? Every NBA scout in the world would be signing them up...

the tail is a foul makin machine...

371 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:19:10pm

Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter Wal Ter

372 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:19:27pm

re: #353 The Sanity Inspector

We kid you not.

They can also use the costumes for, "If the US could make Avatar, they could create the CGI of 9-11."

373 avanti  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:19:34pm

re: #339 JohninLondon

I was under the impression that both the medieval warming and little ice ages were regional, and not world wide changes.

374 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:20:13pm

re: #371 Spare O'Lake

Quick, check the needle, his record's stuck!

375 charlz  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:20:48pm

re: #362 Alouette

Avatar was an amazing entertainment experience. Who cares if the script was lame?

I don't buy the criticism of bad writing. First, compared to what? Where are these flics with strong scripts that Avatar suffers in comparison to? And second, there were plenty of people in the theater with tears in their eyes by the end all 3 times I went (including me). Lame scripts don't do that.

376 oldegeezr  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:21:06pm

re: #352 Guanxi88

My bad...not much of a movie buff.

re: #354 Cato the Elder

Gimme yer best shot...!

378 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:21:16pm

re: #370 brookly red

the tail is a foul makin machine...

Now that we get to hear the coaches in the huddle making 4 million dollars a year scream we need to play defense!
I shake my head and realize..I have missed my calling...
It's sad really
*wink*

379 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:22:24pm

re: #373 avanti

I was under the impression that both the medieval warming and little ice ages were regional, and not world wide changes.

Hey Avanti.. You see that guy in the kitchen? You know that guy?

380 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:22:51pm

re: #372 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They can also use the costumes for, "If the US could make Avatar, they could create the CGI of 9-11."

it's kinda like being in an airliner's bathroom...

now which one of theses buttons will make it flush?

381 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:23:38pm

re: #378 HoosierHoops

Now that we get to hear the coaches in the huddle making 4 million dollars a year scream we need to play defense!
I shake my head and realize..I have missed my calling...
It's sad really
*wink*

/ i coulda been a contender...

382 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:24:46pm

re: #359 MandyManners

I would like to believe so, but I listen to a scanner (even now) while I hang out here and not one day goes by that there isn't at least one call for an abused or neglected animal. The last one was this morning for a dog chained to a tree at vacant house without water or food.

383 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:25:07pm

re: #358 brookly red

/can I get a witness?

Well at least it's creative.

(Unless they start showing up with neurotoxin-dipped arrows. Though that might make for some interesting "work accidents".)

384 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:26:43pm

re: #367 HoosierHoops

I enjoyed it...Fun movie...
But really..10' Blue people with tail? Every NBA scout in the world would be signing them up...

And just imagine what they can do with those tails IN BED.

385 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:27:05pm

I'm in a very nice Holiday Inn Express suite.

About 25 lady bugs in here...

Climate Change?

386 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:27:24pm

re: #383 Cato the Elder

Well at least it's creative.

(Unless they start showing up with neurotoxin-dipped arrows. Though that might make for some interesting "work accidents".)

creative? putting on a mini-skirt & waving at cars is creative... talk about direct marketing.

387 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:27:47pm

re: #385 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm in a very nice Holiday Inn Express suite.

About 25 lady bugs in here...

Climate Change?

Nah, they just think you're hot!
:P

388 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:27:50pm

re: #353 The Sanity Inspector

We kid you not.

Don't tell them Na'Vi is a Hebrew word.

389 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:28:05pm

re: #385 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm in a very nice Holiday Inn Express suite.

About 25 lady bugs in here...

Climate Change?

No supper.

390 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:28:12pm

re: #381 brookly red

/ i coulda been a contender...

I was this close to running a motion defense, Abusing my players and Throwing chairs from being a legend...

391 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:28:56pm

re: #388 Alouette

Don't tell them Na'Vi is a Hebrew word.

It is?

Actually a lot of the language sounded vaguely Hebraic to me...

392 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:29:23pm

re: #388 Alouette

Don't tell them Na'Vi is a Hebrew word.

the word for? (drum roll please)

393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:29:48pm

Back in an hour...

394 ryannon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:29:50pm

re: #21 Jadespring

I don't see what this article has to do with anything. It dosn't even mention Al Gore or the FACT that it's snowing TONS right now and I have to where a sweater when at this time of year I NEVER where a sweater.



I haven't read it all yet, but it's true that it doesn't mention your name even once. Obviously not an article that matters.

395 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:30:18pm

re: #391 Cato the Elder

It is?

Actually a lot of the language sounded vaguely Hebraic to me...

Not even close.

But, in "Borat" there were a few scenes where the characters spoke Hebrew when they were supposed to be speaking "Kazakh"

396 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:30:28pm

re: #392 brookly red

the word for? (drum roll please)

Prophet.

397 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:31:37pm

re: #21 Jadespring

I don't see what this article has to do with anything. It dosn't even mention Al Gore or the FACT that it's snowing TONS right now and I have to where a sweater when at this time of year I NEVER where a sweater.

I've never whorn a sweater in my life. How do you do that, with an echolocator?

398 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:31:58pm

re: #231 BigPapa

...You posted a link to a news article that made a statement: did you not say that because you didn't say it, even though you posted the article saying it? ...

OK, I'm getting lost and I'm not sure what you are wanting me to say.

Like I said in my original post this Schmidt guy is being disingenuous. He glosses over this addition as a proof checking error when it's anything but. He mentions that Georg Kaser found the error, as if there was some proper fact checking going on. What he (Schmidt) doesn't tell you is that Georg Kaser said, back in January of this year, that he found the error months before this 2007 report was published. Where has Georg Kaser been since then? Until it came out that the 2035 date was untrue he's not on record saying anything about it. There's a Graham Cogley in Canada that has said stuff about it and some bloggers but not Mr. Kaser.

To me these half-truths lend me not to trust the remainder of his article (fruit of the poisonous tree).

But if we believe Schmidt (and Lai and Kaser); the IPCC published a report containing data that the glacier expert (Kaser) said was patently untrue months earlier, it was included under the reason (Lai) that it will put political pressure on world leaders. Further to that IPCC maintained it's absolute certainty on the accuracy of this bogus data until outside forces required them to reluctantly reverse their position.

This would seem to be a direct hit to the credibility of the IPCC AR4 and it's review process. How many other 'mistakes' will be coming out in the future?

As far as Dr. Lai, he's the one who said he included it to put political pressure on world leaders. And the Gore acolyte stuff, I don't know anything about that. You'll have to explain (or not).

399 JohninLondon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:32:15pm

re: #373 avanti

I was under the impression that both the medieval warming and little ice ages were regional, and not world wide changes.

I think what Phil Jones says in his replies to the BBC is that there is evidence for an MWP in the northern hemisphere - but inadequate evidence for the southern hemisphere. Inadequate either way. That is - he appears to say that there may have been an MWP in the southern hemisphere - or there may not.

What I always stub my toe on is - why is the Hockey Stick showing a flat line through the period described as MWP ? Why does the Hockey Stick contradict all the historical evidence eg of changes in agriculture, at least as regards the northern hemisphere ?

400 Cathypop  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:32:21pm

re: #393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Back in an hour...


It takes you an hour FBV?

401 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:32:33pm

re: #382 Bubblehead II

I would like to believe so, but I listen to a scanner (even now) while I hang out here and not one day goes by that there isn't at least one call for an abused or neglected animal. The last one was this morning for a dog chained to a tree at vacant house without water or food.

I want to believe that people who are setting up a photograph are not then gonna' refuse to take care of their prop.

402 ryannon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:33:14pm

re: #28 TreBob

I haven't read the article yet, does he go into any detail regarding NASA's website posting of the Himalayan glaciers being gone by 2030 (same as IPCC number -5 years) and then being scrubbed a couple of days after the IPCC error was confirmed?

Shocking!

NASA should have its funding cut and Cape Canaveral turned into a theme-park with Noah's Ark and dinosaur rides!

403 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:33:15pm

re: #397 Cato the Elder

I've never whorn a sweater in my life. How do you do that, with an echolocator?

it ain't easy...

404 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:33:24pm

Check this out: learn Na'vi.

405 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:34:24pm

re: #400 Cathypop

It takes you an hour FBV?

That would include foreplay and a nap.

406 Cathypop  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:35:30pm

re: #405 Spare O'Lake

That would include foreplay and a nap.

A verrryyy long nap.
And very little foreplay.
Poor FBV!

407 brookly red  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:36:17pm

re: #404 Cato the Elder

Check this out: learn Na'vi.

I once interviewed an applicant that listed "fluent in Klingon" on his resume (HR made me do it)... care to guess how that turned out?

408 albusteve  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:37:00pm

re: #404 Cato the Elder

Check this out: learn Na'vi.

good grief...next will be little dolls of some sort that you can talk to

409 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:37:38pm

re: #395 Alouette

Not even close.

But, in "Borat" there were a few scenes where the characters spoke Hebrew when they were supposed to be speaking "Kazakh"

Plot Point...
You know..When your avatar keep passing out when they unplug you ala Matrix..
At some point the girl that keeps saving your ass is going to ask questions..
Dude? What up? /oh nothing...It's an out of body experience thing for me//
You can't ignore the laughable in the script...
/// James we know you are working on Avatar II.. Why not go all Godfather II on us on work on the script more?
Try it

410 Cathypop  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:38:07pm

re: #407 brookly red

I once interviewed an applicant that listed "fluent in Klingon" on his resume (HR made me do it)... care to guess how that turned out?

Somewhere in my husbands office is a Klingon Dictionary. Along with a ton of Star Trek Stuff.

411 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:38:34pm

re: #399 JohninLondon

You answered your own question: given that there is a paucity of evidence for the MWP in the southern hemisphere-- given the paucity of evidence that it was 'global', it doesn't show up strongly in most global models-- because there isn't enough evidence, enough data, to show it strongly in the models.

412 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:39:13pm

re: #407 brookly red

I once interviewed an applicant that listed "fluent in Klingon" on his resume (HR made me do it)... care to guess how that turned out?

Must be the guy I heard about on NPR who's raising his kid bilingual in Klingon and English...

413 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:40:13pm

re: #409 HoosierHoops

Plot Point...
You know..When your avatar keep passing out when they unplug you ala Matrix..
At some point the girl that keeps saving your ass is going to ask questions..
Dude? What up? /oh nothing...It's an out of body experience thing for me//
You can't ignore the laughable in the script...
/// James we know you are working on Avatar II.. Why not go all Godfather II on us on work on the script more?
Try it

"Return of the Earthlings"

There will be lots of backstory, I guarantee it.

414 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:40:13pm

re: #397 Cato the Elder

Bad, Cato, bad!

415 The Curmudgeon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:40:43pm

re: #108 SixDegrees

I took it as a reference to Gore's peculiar penchant for actively denying science, and Moore's for simply being irrational, adding up to the intellectual equivalent of promoting a flat earth. [...]

In any case, that was my take. I'll happily let the Curmudgeon speak for himself.

You've figured it out. Lotta sensitive people around here. Can't even make an Al Gore joke without enraging the obesity PC crowd.

416 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:41:01pm

re: #401 MandyManners

And I share in your belief/hope. But I also know that there are sick f*cks out there that would think it funny to let that turtle cook in the sun and die in the belief that others would find such a sight to be funny.

I Just hope that both of our wishes are correct.

417 freetoken  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:41:56pm

re: #411 Obdicut

Even more so, as the recent report put out by the British Antarctic Survey states, the evidence for the MWP in the Antarctic ice is very weak indeed.

This obsession with the MWP is quite analogous to the creationists' obsession with the eye.

418 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:42:49pm

re: #399 JohninLondon

Because there is ample tree ring and ice core evidence to show that the average temp wasn't high everywhere.

[Link: scholar.google.com...]

419 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:43:11pm

New Thread --->

420 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:48:54pm
The actual work of the IPCC is done by unpaid volunteers – thousands of scientists at universities and research institutes around the world who contribute as authors or reviewers to the completion of the IPCC reports.

Bunch of amateurs.

421 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:49:44pm

re: #397 Cato the Elder

I've never whorn a sweater in my life. How do you do that, with an echolocator?

Shure maybe I guess you could. Though I'm not shure wear you would buy one of those.

422 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:50:46pm

I'm starting to believe that it is entirely fruitless to argue with these idiots. I actually had someone tell me that AGW was obviously wrong because they had predicted that the Himalayan Mountains were all going to "melt" within the next 30 years.

Even reading the nutjob denier websites misconstruence of the articles on the data only an idiot could come away with that interpretation. Apparently that is actually what they are, Idiots.

423 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:52:25pm

CD Crock of the week on MWP

424 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:53:36pm

re: #402 ryannon

Shocking!

NASA should have its funding cut and Cape Canaveral turned into a theme-park with Noah's Ark and dinosaur rides!

I'm actually fascinated and would love to know. The original error can be pointed back to someone in the WWF article whiffing on a 3rd grade arithmetic equation and they got 2035 for the date. NASA quite obviously used the IPCC report as the foundation for their web page and yet they had a date of 2030. I'd love to hear why the discrepancy and did we also use a date that would put or increase political pressure?

425 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:01:52pm

re: #398 TreBob

OK, I'm getting lost and I'm not sure what you are wanting me to say.

Like I said in my original post this Schmidt guy is being disingenuous. He glosses over this addition as a proof checking error when it's anything but. He mentions that Georg Kaser found the error, as if there was some proper fact checking going on. What he (Schmidt) doesn't tell you is that Georg Kaser said, back in January of this year, that he found the error months before this 2007 report was published. Where has Georg Kaser been since then? Until it came out that the 2035 date was untrue he's not on record saying anything about it. There's a Graham Cogley in Canada that has said stuff about it and some bloggers but not Mr. Kaser.

To me these half-truths lend me not to trust the remainder of his article (fruit of the poisonous tree).

But if we believe Schmidt (and Lai and Kaser); the IPCC published a report containing data that the glacier expert (Kaser) said was patently untrue months earlier, it was included under the reason (Lai) that it will put political pressure on world leaders. Further to that IPCC maintained it's absolute certainty on the accuracy of this bogus data until outside forces required them to reluctantly reverse their position.

This would seem to be a direct hit to the credibility of the IPCC AR4 and it's review process. How many other 'mistakes' will be coming out in the future?

As far as Dr. Lai, he's the one who said he included it to put political pressure on world leaders. And the Gore acolyte stuff, I don't know anything about that. You'll have to explain (or not).

Schmidt is not disingenuous in the least, you are. There was nothing glossed over: it is clearly admitted that the subjected information from Lai was not peer reviewed: that Lai did it purposely for noble (but not scientific) reasons; that Kaser found the error after the entire report was complete and reported it.

The icing on the cake?

This would seem to be a direct hit to the credibility of the IPCC AR4 and it's review process. How many other 'mistakes' will be coming out in the future?

The fact that you cannot understand the facts as presented, but only understand them in a way that supports your own premise. Either way, the error was found by an IPCC contributor, reported by an IPCC contributor, and if this report is so error laden you should have no problems finding all these other errors.

Until then, you have Dr Lai and a bogus Himalayan glacier prediction, the otherwise does nothing to tarnish the entire report.

426 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:01:58pm

re: #424 TreBob

Seems we have denier here tonight. I'll wait to take last night's troll out of the freeze, since this one would be fresher. >:)

427 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:05:21pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

It may be a good idea to take the other troll out of the freezer too. Lately the trolls don't seem to have any substance at all and it will take quite a few to justify lighting the grill.

428 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:07:18pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Seems we have denier here tonight. I'll wait to take last night's troll out of the freeze, since this one would be fresher. >:)

I basically have said this Schmidt fellow was disingenuous, so yes, I guess I'm the infidel. :)

429 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:07:49pm

re: #427 Reginald Perrin

It may be a good idea to take the other troll out of the freezer too. Lately the trolls don't seem to have any substance at all and it will take quite a few to justify lighting the grill.

Last night's troll had enough time to be fully downdinged and frenzied. It was large enough to be a whole roaster. With Walter now posting his arguement on the next thread and this troll around, I figure there a good chance the troll will melt down, so I'm going to wait to see if it does. I did make a grocery run before coming come to make sure I had enough charcoal.

430 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:08:36pm

re: #429 Dark_Falcon

Last night's troll had enough time to be fully downdinged and frenzied. It was large enough to be a whole roaster. With Walter now posting his arguement on the next thread and this troll around, I figure there a good chance the troll will melt down, so I'm going to wait to see if it does. I did make a grocery run before coming come to make sure I had enough charcoal.

Ya got the beer, right?

431 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:08:47pm

re: #428 TreBob

No, you are simply being disingenuous yourself, for the reasons BigPapa listed above.

432 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:09:01pm

re: #430 Guanxi88

Ya got the beer, right?

Always, my man!

433 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:10:50pm

re: #428 TreBob

I basically have said this Schmidt fellow was disingenuous, so yes, I guess I'm the infidel. :)

Making an assertion does not make a case, or a truth. You have not made the case, but you repeatedly make the assertion.

434 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:11:06pm

re: #432 Dark_Falcon

Always, my man!

It ain't a barbecue without beer.

Hey, maybe we could do a beer troll, like they do with chickens.

435 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:18:36pm

re: #425 BigPapa

Schmidt is not disingenuous in the least, you are. There was nothing glossed over: it is clearly admitted that the subjected information from Lai was not peer reviewed: that Lai did it purposely for noble (but not scientific) reasons; that Kaser found the error after the entire report was complete and reported it.

Dr. Pauchari and others have used this date regarding Himalayan glaciers multiple times for the last few years in their speeches. Kaser didn't say jack about it to anyone outside the IPCC until January this year when outside influences forced it. The IPCC knowing the date was wrong prior to publishing AR4 did not make any attempt to correct the data until January this year when outside influences forced them to.

Tell me why this isn't the same as; the Killian memo was promoted as being accurate and true until outside influences forced a reversal in position.

436 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:27:39pm

re: #435 TreBob

Dr. Pauchari and others have used this date regarding Himalayan glaciers multiple times for the last few years in their speeches. Kaser didn't say jack about it to anyone outside the IPCC until January this year when outside influences forced it. The IPCC knowing the date was wrong prior to publishing AR4 did not make any attempt to correct the data until January this year when outside influences forced them to.

Tell me why this isn't the same as; the Killian memo was promoted as being accurate and true until outside influences forced a reversal in position.

The IPCC new the date was wrong? Where did you see that?

Dr Pauchari was wrong; Kaser 'didn't say jack' about it, but it's up to you to prove his motive (that he knew but kept his mouth shut); the IPCC knowing this or that.

This has the makings of a tempest in a teaspoon. You're taking a specific incident, interpreting it in the most cynical light, to support your position that the entire IPCC report and process is flawed.

Too bad you don't hold the same standards on yourself that you hold on the IPCC.

437 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:28:06pm

I'm going next door --->

438 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:28:50pm

re: #435 TreBob

Dr. Pauchari and others have used this date regarding Himalayan glaciers multiple times for the last few years in their speeches. Kaser didn't say jack about it to anyone outside the IPCC until January this year when outside influences forced it. The IPCC knowing the date was wrong prior to publishing AR4 did not make any attempt to correct the data until January this year when outside influences forced them to.

Tell me why this isn't the same as; the Killian memo was promoted as being accurate and true until outside influences forced a reversal in position.

Even allowing everthing you just said as true, that still would not prove malfeasance. Here's the correct way of seeing it: The phony "Climategate scandal" caused the IPCC to review its data to secure their credibility. In the course of that review, an error was found and corrected. That's all there is to it.

439 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:29:12pm

re: #437 BigPapa

I'm going next door --->

Ditto.

440 JohninLondon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:33:33pm

re: #417 freetoken

Even more so, as the recent report put out by the British Antarctic Survey states, the evidence for the MWP in the Antarctic ice is very weak indeed.

This obsession with the MWP is quite analogous to the creationists' obsession with the eye.

That is a pretty intemperate response ?

Yes, some of the evidence from the southern hemisphere does not support MWP - but other evidence in the southern hemisphere does support it.

Dr Phil Jones seems to be in little doubt that there was an MWP in the northern hemisphere.

So if the south is a wash, and the north is a plus - how come the flat Hockey Stick - that in essence says there was no MWP ?

There appears to be a lot of conflict between the IPCC charts of proxy readings for the period as against abundant historical evidence. Like I said at the start - I drive up Vineyard Hill Road in Wimbledon every week.

[Link: www.wphg.demon.co.uk...]

441 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:41:27pm

re: #440 JohninLondon

So if the south is a wash, and the north is a plus - how come the flat Hockey Stick - that in essence says there was no MWP ?

Because, again, there is not enough evidence for global effects of the MWP to skew the graph in any major way. I'm not sure what you're not getting about that.

You're basically calling bullshit on the data because you, eyeballing it, have decided it doesn't fit what you think should be there. That's not how science works, and it's not how statistics works.

. Like I said at the start - I drive up Vineyard Hill Road in Wimbledon every week.

Why do you keep harping on that? Nobody is disputing that grapes were grown in England then, or now.

442 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:43:18pm

re: #441 Obdicut

Kudos to your persistence in dealing with these...types. I lost any desire to help educate them long ago.
:)

443 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:43:42pm

re: #436 BigPapa

The IPCC new the date was wrong? Where did you see that?

It was reported in the Daily Mail in January Georg Kaser said when he became aware of the 2035 claim months before AR4 was published, he asked Dr. Lai to withdraw it as patently untrue. As one of the lead authors of the report (albeit another chapter) it is pretty certain he had a method of informing the necessary parties that he asked the info not be included. One can only assume that if two lead authors (Kaser and Lai) both knew the claim was untrue, the IPCC in general either knew or should have known.

444 JohninLondon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:54:11pm

re: #441 Obdicut

Why do you keep harping on that? Nobody is disputing that grapes were grown in England then, or now.

No-one in their right mind would now dream of having a vineyard on the hills leading up to Wimbledon village. And that is just a smidgeon of the historical evidence of a warmer climate in many places in medieval times. Certainly for the northern hemisphere.

I therefore remain unconvinced that current temperatures here are "unprecedented". But the Hockey Stick, based on a selection of proxy data, says they are. Is the contradiction in the selection of data - or is the raw data then adjusted ? I can't square the circle.

445 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:54:20pm

re: #440 JohninLondon

So if the south is a wash, and the north is a plus - how come the flat Hockey Stick - that in essence says there was no MWP ?

Maybe it is because the so called MWP occurred mainly in north central Europe.

446 TreBob  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:55:16pm

re: #438 Dark_Falcon

Even allowing everthing you just said as true, that still would not prove malfeasance. Here's the correct way of seeing it: The phony "Climategate scandal" caused the IPCC to review its data to secure their credibility. In the course of that review, an error was found and corrected. That's all there is to it.

You're right it's tough to know what is in someone's mind, however the IPCC didn't break this to the news and they didn't review the data and correct themselves. That's the assertion of the Schmidt article. Even in November last year Dr. Pachauri called an Indian government glacial study, that contradicted the 2035 date, voodoo science. If influences outside the IPCC had not forced them to reverse their position it is likely they would not have and the 2035 date would still be "fact".

There were 2500+ scientists giving this publication a rigorous review prior to publication. It seems strange that we find out these things after this long a time period and reporter (IPCC) only changes when forced to.

447 oldegeezr  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:56:22pm

re: #354 Cato the Elder

“…He was trying to see if you're human or a skin-job.”

On the second read, I realized I missed your metaphor.

Yeh gotta give us real oldsters, a break now and then…

Hell, at my annual VA physical yesterday; I had, a half dozen docs in the exam room at the same time, trying to figure out why my basal body temperature was the same as the room's temperature…and my ticker was still tickin'...?

Apparently "assuming room temperature" is a bad thing?

My PSP placed her hand on my forehead and asked me, “How do you feel?”

I told her, “Your hand feels very, very warm!”

Then I rolled over onto my belly and left the room on all fours, as all the residents stood slack jawed and continued to look on in total disbelief.

I’m still waitin’ fer yer money shot…!

448 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:56:38pm

re: #444 JohninLondon

Why, why, why do you keep conflating global and local temperatures? Especially after i point it out over and over?

The 'hockey stick' doesn't say a damn thing about Wimbledon. It says things about the global temperature.

449 JohninLondon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:56:51pm

re: #445 Reginald Perrin

Maybe it is because the so called MWP occurred mainly in north central Europe.

None in Greenland ? North America ?

450 JohninLondon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:00:42pm

re: #448 Obdicut

Why, why, why do you keep conflating global and local temperatures? Especially after i point it out over and over?

The 'hockey stick' doesn't say a damn thing about Wimbledon. It says things about the global temperature.

I mention a specific local example - but Phil Jones appears to concede that there was an MWP for the northern hemisphere generally, while saying that the data for the southern hemisphere is inconclusive. I can't see how, on average, that should not be reflected at least to some degree in the Hockey Stick.

451 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:03:35pm

re: #449 JohninLondon

What part of mainly occurred didn't you understand?

452 JohninLondon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:13:31pm

re: #451 Reginald Perrin

What part of mainly occurred didn't you understand?

Try reading Question and Answer F in the BBC online interview with Dr Phil Jones. He is definitely not saying that the MWP "mainly occurred" in North Central Europe, which you claim.

Specifically :
"...The MWP is most clearly expressed in North America, the North Atlantic and Europe and parts of Asia".

453 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:20:05pm

re: #450 JohninLondon

Again:

You're basically calling bullshit on the data because you, eyeballing it, have decided it doesn't fit what you think should be there. That's not how science works, and it's not how statistics works.

An argument from personal incredulity is just stupid.

454 swamprat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:35:33pm

re: #449 JohninLondon

None in Greenland ? North America ?

north america had it
see post 356 on this thread

455 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:38:34pm

Jones states that there's insufficient evidence to definitively conclude either way, in regard to the MWP, because of a lack of southern hemisphere proxies.

Here is the Jone's quote:


There is much debate over whether the Medieval Warm Period was global in extent or not. The MWP is most clearly expressed in parts of North America, the North Atlantic and Europe and parts of Asia. For it to be global in extent the MWP would need to be seen clearly in more records from the tropical regions and the Southern Hemisphere.
456 Pacificlady  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:45:16pm

Let see. If I remember correctly. Science is superior to other disciplines because of the scientific method. Remember that, first a hypothesis, then experiment, data, then conclusion. Somewhere in there was the concept that other scientists could review the data, repeat the experiment and come up with the same conclusion. Someone, something is very sloppy here. I still believe before trillions of dollars are spent, and major policy changes are made, everything needs to be transparent (including the data). Sloppy science is bad science. But what do I know, 4 years of college, 5 years of graduate school. I'm just one of those skeptical idiots, I guess.

457 JohninLondon  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:50:51pm

It all depends on WHICH data is used - and if and how data is adjusted.

Mann et al in the Hockey Stick suggest, in essence, no MWP. A flat graph.

This overview map of data suggests ample evidence of an MWP. Yes, the data is more sparse for the southern hemisphere, but stacks for the northern hemisphere. No way would this translate into a flat chart over time.

Image: mwp-global-studies-map-i-1500.jpg

458 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:04:07pm

re: #457 JohninLondon

Joanne Nova is A freelance science presenter & writer, professional speaker, former TV host and author of The Skeptics Handbook.


I am not sure anyone should accept her map as based on valid science.

459 swamprat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:14:34pm

There was no medieval warming period.
There was medieval warming and it was caused by solar radiation.
There was medieval warming and it was caused by volcanic activity.

All scientists agree.

Global warming charts somehow invariably start around 1880 and forget to include the medieval portion that would have shown the medieval warming period which did, of course, not happen.

This convenient mistake does not change the fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, in the same way that east coast snow storms in the south don't change the fact that the winter Olympics this year had to make their own snow.

460 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:20:19pm

We have a little denier tag team going on in here, I see.

461 swamprat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:22:42pm

re: #459 swamprat

There was no medieval warming period.
There was medieval warming and it was caused by solar radiation.
There was medieval warming and it was caused by volcanic activity.

All scientists agree.

Global warming charts somehow invariably start around 1880 and forget to include the medieval portion that would have shown the medieval warming period which did, of course, not happen.

This convenient mistake does not change the fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, in the same way that east coast snow storms in the south don't change the fact that the winter Olympics this year had to make their own snow.


not me

462 swamprat  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:33:55pm

re: #454 swamprat

north america had it
see post 356 on this thread

After rereading, I have to say that the facts in post 356 that concern America, deal with drought more than temperature.

463 Cineaste  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:46:22pm

re: #35 Charles

Three thousand pages, and every "skeptic" on Earth hard at work going through the documents with a fine-toothed comb to find more, and so far ... ONE genuine mistake has been discovered.

but Charles, if only they'd release the real birth certificate IPCC report...

___///

464 lostlakehiker  Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:41:27pm

re: #113 TreBob

It's a really well written article, but the guy is disingenuous on at least the glacier perspective. He is indicating that it's a large publication and it's bound to have some mistakes, but that's not what happened. The Himalayan glacier prediction was not a mistake nor was it mistakenly added to the IPCC. Dr. Lai has already said he knew full well there was no data substantiating the claim and that he included it to put political pressure on world leaders. He put it in and the rigorous, line by line fact checking of the IPCC report left it in (perhaps for the same reason, we don't know). For Schmidt to come through now and say that if there was glacier expert checking it they would have caught that one is a load of crap. It was known from one of the lead authors to be bogus and Schmidt is obviously just covering up instead of owning up.

How can the rest of what Schmidt says be trusted?

Suppose we grant that the IPCC isn't all that professional, and that they go with the more extreme claims given half an excuse. Not that I do grant that, but just for the sake of argument...

So what? Glaciers all around the world, with rare exceptions, are in retreat. Migrations occur later in fall, back earlier in spring. Etc. etc. There's a pattern here that's bigger than any issue of where weather station thermometers are posted or whether some one climate advocacy group isn't cutting the cards.

The only attack the deniers have on AGW is that some of us alarmists are wrong about this or that point, and that some of us are liars and frauds.

This will be true of any large human endeavour, be it the Catholic Church or the Sierra Club or NASA or Toyota. There is no perfection to be found anywhere in human affairs. That doesn't mean all our efforts are trash. They're just flawed.

We're right in the large and on the whole, notwithstanding our human faults and the shameful strayings of some of our team. The strength of our case rides not on who we are, but on reality. Behold: the arctic ice cap is in retreat. Behold: sea levels are rising. Behold: Glacier National Park looks nothing like it looked when Ansel Adams was there. Your own eyes will report to you that things have changed, if only you'll look.

465 stayfrosty  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 1:34:28am

I see all of these scientists, even some formerly involved with the IPCC or other CRUs, pointing out errors in data, destruction of evidence, outright manipulation, etc., and wonder how someone with good-faith skepticism can be berated so badly. When I see stuff like this every day, how can I not be? And it's not just kooks here...

The Times Online: World may not be warming, say scientists

In its last assessment the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) said the evidence that the world was warming was “unequivocal”.

It warned that greenhouse gases had already heated the world by 0.7C and that there could be 5C-6C more warming by 2100, with devastating impacts on humanity and wildlife. However, new research, including work by British scientists, is casting doubt on such claims. Some even suggest the world may not be warming much at all.

“The temperature records cannot be relied on as indicators of global change,” said John Christy, professor of atmospheric science at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, a former lead author on the IPCC.

These stations, they believe, have been seriously compromised by factors such as urbanisation, changes in land use and, in many cases, being moved from site to site.

...

The IPCC faces similar criticisms from Ross McKitrick, professor of economics at the University of Guelph, Canada, who was invited by the panel to review its last report.

The experience turned him into a strong critic and he has since published a research paper questioning its methods.

“We concluded, with overwhelming statistical significance, that the IPCC’s climate data are contaminated with surface effects from industrialisation and data quality problems. These add up to a large warming bias,” he said.

The Register:

More trouble looms for the IPCC. The body may need to revise statements made in its Fourth Assessment Report on hurricanes and global warming. A statistical analysis of the raw data shows that the claims that global hurricane activity has increased cannot be supported.

Les Hatton once fixed weather models at the Met Office. Having studied Maths at Cambridge, he completed his PhD as metereologist... He's a fellow of the Royal Meterological Society, currently teaches at the University of Kingston, and is well known in the software engineering community - his studies include critical systems analysis.

...

"The IPCC goes on to make statements that would never pass peer review," Hatton told us.

The Orange County Register: What to say to a global warming advocate

(snip)

AmazonGate – The London Times exposed another shocker: the IPCC claim that global warming will wipe out rain forests was fraudulent, yet advanced as "peer-reveiwed" science...The "research" was based on a popular science magazine report that didn't bother to assess rainfall. Instead, it looked at the impact of logging and burning.

PeerReviewGate – The U.K. Sunday Telegraph has documented at least 16 nonpeer-reviewed reports (so far) from the advocacy group World Wildlife Fund that were used in the IPCC's climate change bible, which calls for capping manmade greenhouse gases.

RussiaGate – ...Russian think tank investigators evaluated thousands of documents and e-mails leaked from the East Anglia research center and concluded readings from the coldest regions of their nation had been omitted, driving average temperatures up about half a degree.

(snip)

There's over a dozen examples in the above article.

466 stayfrosty  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 1:57:03am

(Wasn't able to submit the whole post due to text limits.)

So from the 19 different things I read in the Orange County Register, I've seen the "AmazonGate" and "PeerReviewGate" reasonably explained in the article Charles linked (working through the comments there now). Some seem like fairly innocent mistakes, such as using the secondary source from the WWF rather than the original, although they both say essentially the same thing. Yet others, I'd like to know if anyone has more refutations for. Specifically: is the IPCC report really omitting some temperature readings from Russia's Far East resulting in a warming skew; did they truncate a previous report they used from the 1960s which actually showed cooling in that region; etc. If anyone can give me some info on the other 17 or so "-gates", I'd appreciate it.

467 trebob  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 5:09:29am

re: #464 lostlakehiker


The only attack the deniers have on AGW is that some of us alarmists are wrong about this or that point, and that some of us are liars and frauds.

The title of the article was "IPCC errors? Fact vs spin". I pointed out that using the IPCC authors own statements that Gavin Schmidt was spinning this article with disinformation (by inferring that Georg Kaser released info about the mistake, minimizing the error's impact,etc).

Somehow that deteriorated into me dissing the IPCC, being a "denier" (heretic, infidel, whatever) and a troll.

What fun.

468 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:12:15am
469 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:51:29am

re: #468 jackkerouac

Are you now, or have you ever been in the past a card carrying member of the John Birch Society?

470 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:52:24am

As usual, the deniers start spouting nonsense at the end of a thread, apparently believing that getting the last word at LGF will magically make the effects of CO2 vanish.

And of course, we also get the outright assholes who spew insults and get banned.

471 ShaunP  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:53:51am

re: #467 trebob

Based on your extremely rigorous standards with regards to information and their source, I assume that you are apply the same standards to the denial articles?

Perfect example is one above you:
re: #465 stayfrosty

Are you as critical of the Times article that builds the case upon the work of John Christy, who has been widely discredited?:
[Link: climateprogress.org...]

Would you question the Register article's accuracy, when the author's wikipedia page includes this sentence?:
"Orlowski has produced numerous articles that aim to cast doubt over anthropogenic climate change, or global warming. His articles often favour non-scientific pundits over the expert scientific community, for example his defence of Christopher Monckton against the American Physical Society."

Do you take the criticisms from the OC Register as fact, when it appeared in the Opinion section and was written by the author of such acclaimed scientific works as this review of Brokeback mountain?:
[Link: www.cwfa.org...]

What bothers me is this faux scientific skepticism that is not scientific and is only skeptical of the argument that they do not want to hear...

I hope this isn't construed as attacking the messenger, because I am not. I am attacking the message, though...

472 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:05:11am

re: #471 ShaunP

The answer is "no" -- the deniers never accept any accountability for the falsehoods circulated by their spokespeople, like Christy, Monckton, Watts, etc. They just quietly drop the false claims and move on to the next manufactured outrage, as if they were never proven wrong.

473 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:09:17am

re: #471 ShaunP

Very good post. Favorited.

474 trebob  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:45:57am

re: #471 ShaunP

Based on your extremely rigorous standards with regards to information and their source, I assume that you are apply the same standards to the denial articles?

Firstly, thank you for answering for me Charles, but I am quite capable of answering for myself.

My standards are hardly "rigorous" but yes, I apply the same standard to everyone purporting information to be fact. I don't know anything about the remainder of your post concerning the Register because the article I was disscussing came from Realclimate.org. Gavin Schmidt found the faithful here and using half truths has even convinced many (apparently including Charles) that Georg Kaser outted the mistake this year when Mr. Kaser's own words say he contacted Dr. Lai months before AR4 was published. If one guy has to get credit for showing this erroneous claim to the public then perhaps it's Graham Cogley although the Indian and Japanese governments also had a hand.

Me pointing out that Gavin Schmidt was disingenuous in his spinning of the glacier debacle (which is the part of subject of the article) doesn't mean I said a thing about the IPCC, AR3, AR4 or the existance of UFOs.

(Outside of AGW discussions) believing someone should present the whole truth is not exactly a rigorous standard when someone is wanting to take my money and limit my freedoms.

475 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:58:00am

re: #474 trebob

Me pointing out that Gavin Schmidt was disingenuous in his spinning of the glacier debacle (which is the part of subject of the article) doesn't mean I said a thing about the IPCC, AR3, AR4 or the existance of UFOs.

You have not "pointed out" any such thing. You're trying your best to smear Gavin Schmidt (who you refer to as "that Schmidt guy") with false claims that he was "disingenuous" about the Himalayan glacier prediction.

Again, this is what he wrote, and it's absolutely factual. You're spinning it to try to make him look bad, and it's pathetically obvious.

Himalayan glaciers: In a regional chapter on Asia in Volume 2, written by authors from the region, it was erroneously stated that 80% of Himalayan glacier area would very likely be gone by 2035. This is of course not the proper IPCC projection of future glacier decline, which is found in Volume 1 of the report. There we find a 45-page, perfectly valid chapter on glaciers, snow and ice (Chapter 4), with the authors including leading glacier experts (such as our colleague Georg Kaser from Austria, who first discovered the Himalaya error in the WG2 report). There are also several pages on future glacier decline in Chapter 10 (“Global Climate Projections”), where the proper projections are used e.g. to estimate future sea level rise. So the problem here is not that the IPCC’s glacier experts made an incorrect prediction. The problem is that a WG2 chapter, instead of relying on the proper IPCC projections from their WG1 colleagues, cited an unreliable outside source in one place. Fixing this error involves deleting two sentences on page 493 of the WG2 report.

476 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:00:23am

It's always massively ironic that people with fake names like "trebob" present themselves as experts and smear people like Gavin Schmidt, one of the world's most respected climatologists.

Let's see -- do I believe "trebob" or do I believe the guy who works at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, and makes all his claims on the record using his real name?

Answer: the latter.

477 trebob  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:12:00am

re: #476 Charles

It's always massively ironic that people with fake names like "trebob" present themselves as experts, and smear people like Gavin Schmidt, one of the world's most respected climatologists.

Bubblehead II
Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Stayfrosty
Charles
Cato the Elder
Obdicut
HoosierHoops

Sorry Charles. I posted under the username I have here the same as others are allowed to do without reproach. My username on LGF, like yours, has my name in it. I didn't realize that posting using something other than your real name had any negative connotations until now. I assure you it won't happen again.

478 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:13:21am

re: #477 trebob

Way to miss the point by half a mile.

479 trebob  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:28:09am

re: #478 Obdicut

Way to miss the point by half a mile.

I guess I did. I never presented myself as an expert at all. I simply pointed out that the glacier data was erroneous (which it was). There is an inferrence in Gavin Schmidt's article that had people in this thread saying 'see the IPCC even found the error'. Kaser said (his words) he found the error months before publication and notified Dr. Lai, yet no corrections (only strong support) from the IPCC for years until outside influences got involved. Data was originally added to put political pressure on world leaders (Dr. Lai's words). Even after fixing the "two sentences" mentioned by Schmidt the arthmetic error still exists in table 10.9 on page 494 of the IPCC AR4 WGII report.

My opinion was, and still is, that Gavin Schmidt is spinning in this article by leaving out some needed material.

480 Pythagoras  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 1:22:28pm

re: #476 Charles

It's always massively ironic that people with fake names like "trebob" present themselves as experts and smear people like Gavin Schmidt, one of the world's most respected climatologists...

Hmmm. Using real names isn't the norm here but there are exceptions. I wonder if we should "get more real."

I am always amazed by how someone using a pseudonym will go nuts over an insult. If we're going to take it so personally, why not use real names?

481 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 3:48:35pm

re: #480 Pythagoras

Hmmm. Using real names isn't the norm here but there are exceptions. I wonder if we should "get more real."

I am always amazed by how someone using a pseudonym will go nuts over an insult. If we're going to take it so personally, why not use real names?

Negatomic. My wife is getting suspicious about the time I spend on LGF. I don't think she believes me anymore, when I tell her it's a PPV pr0n site.

///

482 Pythagoras  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:29:18pm

re: #481 The Sanity Inspector

LOL -- really. I spend too much time here too. I'm addicted.


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