External Image — a subject near to my heart, especially recently. (And somewhere in there you’ll even find a paragraph featuring a quote from your humble narrator, i.e., me.)
One of the central themes of the book:
I am not a Democrat. I am not a Republican. I’m an American. I believe the far left and far right are equally insane. But in the opening years of the Obama administration, the Wingnuts on the right have been screaming the loudest.
2 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:39:20pm |
I heard this guy on "the Morning Joe" a coupla days ago... seemed OK to me.
| 3 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:39:47pm |
well get a load of that...someone who discounts parties and still maintains some political perspective...my new hero
| 4 |
Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:41:18pm |
I read some of the Amazon reviews. Moonbats and wingnuts both hate this book. One moonbat is outraged, outraged I tell you! to see Keith Olbermann grouped together with Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.
| 6 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:44:06pm |
I have long lamented that one extreme position be it guns, abortion or what have you creates an equal but opposite position ... I think I will read this book.
| 7 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:44:42pm |
re: #5 Cato the Elder
Available on Kindle, Charles?
I'm surprised you did correct my #1. I noticed my mistake after posting it.
| 8 |
Cathypop Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:45:01pm |
Good for Jon Avlon. Somebody has got to expose the lunitics. Right or Left we normal ones do not want to be attached to these IDIOTS!
| 9 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:46:01pm |
re: #8 Cathypop
Good for Jon Avlon. Somebody has got to expose the lunitics. Right or Left we normal ones do not want to be attached to these IDIOTS!
Bravo.
| 10 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:46:16pm |
re: #7 Walter L. Newton
I'm surprised you did correct my #1. I noticed my mistake after posting it.
should have been with rather than of
| 11 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:47:03pm |
re: #8 Cathypop
Good for Jon Avlon. Somebody has got to expose the lunitics. Right or Left we normal ones do not want to be attached to these IDIOTS!
don't be then...it's a pretty easy thing not to do
| 12 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:48:08pm |
re: #6 brookly red
I have long lamented that one extreme position be it guns, abortion or what have you creates an equal but opposite position ... I think I will read this book.
he probably did all his research here at LGF
| 13 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:48:28pm |
/OK, that was refreshing... now can we get back to partisan infighting? I don't have all night here...
| 14 |
Bubblehead II Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:49:41pm |
"I am not a Democrat. I am not a Republican. I’m an American."
Add in your various race/sexual orientation/whatever for the strike outs. The last three words say it all. Why can't these people see that?
| 15 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:50:45pm |
re: #12 albusteve
he probably did all his research here at LGF
well normally I would accuse you of brown nosing, but there is a very good chance you may be right :)
| 16 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:50:46pm |
I agree with what this book says. Now if only those commie Democrats would figure it out...
| 17 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:51:21pm |
On the left and on the right, we hear people claiming to be "beyond" the old categories of left and right, liberal and conservative. These are the beyondists. They are usually liberals running away from the sour smell of liberalism far beyond its sell-by date. And beyondists are sometimes conservatives wanting to distance themselves from the stereotypes of conservatism. In either case, they typically represent only more of what they say they are beyond. The language of beyondism has to do not with substance but with salesmanship. Beyondism keeps returning us to where the arguments began. ... If someone proposes to you a position that is beyond left and right, you can be almost certain he’s peddling a gussied-up
liberalism or conservatism. Beyondism is a shell game.
-- Richard John Neuhaus
| 18 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:52:05pm |
re: #15 brookly red
well normally I would accuse you of brown nosing, but there is a very good chance you may be right :)
I only brown nose for a John Hiatt music post...and there was one
| 19 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:52:51pm |
re: #16 cliffster
I agree with what this book says. Now if only those commie Democrats would figure it out...
you seem to miss the point, again.
| 20 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:53:06pm |
Charles is on pages 174-175, according to the index.
| 21 |
A Man for all Seasons Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:53:35pm |
I'm so sorry Alice Cooper and the classic song '18'
Lines form on my face and hands
Lines form from the ups and downs
I´m in the middle, without any plans
I´m a boy and I´m a man.
I´m a wingnut
And I don´t know what I want
wingnut
I just don´t know what I want
wingnut
I gotta get away
wingnut
I gotta get out of this place
I´ll go runnin´ in outer space
Oh yeah.
I got a
Baby´s brain and an old man´s heart
Took eighteen years to get this far
Don´t always know what I´m talkin´ about
Feels like I´m livin´ in the middle of doubt
Cause I´m a wingnut
I get confused every day
wingnut
I just don´t know what to say
wingnut
I gotta get away.
| 22 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:53:51pm |
re: #6 brookly red
I have long lamented that one extreme position be it guns, abortion or what have you creates an equal but opposite position ... I think I will read this book.
As will I.
| 23 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:54:11pm |
I'd argue not just "screaming the loudest" but having the most effect on their party's policy. That said good job speaking truth to power all around...
| 24 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:54:37pm |
re: #17 The Sanity Inspector
On the left and on the right, we hear people claiming to be "beyond" the old categories of left and right, liberal and conservative. These are the beyondists. They are usually liberals running away from the sour smell of liberalism far beyond its sell-by date. And beyondists are sometimes conservatives wanting to distance themselves from the stereotypes of conservatism. In either case, they typically represent only more of what they say they are beyond. The language of beyondism has to do not with substance but with salesmanship. Beyondism keeps returning us to where the arguments began. ... If someone proposes to you a position that is beyond left and right, you can be almost certain he’s peddling a gussied-up
liberalism or conservatism. Beyondism is a shell game.
-- Richard John Neuhaus
Smacks of populist hopenchange.
| 25 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:54:43pm |
| 26 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:55:35pm |
re: #4 Alouette
I read some of the Amazon reviews. Moonbats and wingnuts both hate this book. One moonbat is outraged, outraged I tell you! to see Keith Olbermann grouped together with Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.
I once upon a time would have been outraged, but then I heard what he said about Scott Brown (Via Jon Stewart I'll admit) and now I'll say while he doesn't seem as dangerous as Beck, he's doubtlessly just as nuts....
| 27 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:55:56pm |
re: #23 jamesfirecat
I'd argue not just "screaming the loudest" but having the most effect on their party's policy. That said good job speaking truth to power all around...
truth is power sometimes.
| 28 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:57:28pm |
re: #26 jamesfirecat
I once upon a time would have been outraged, but then I heard what he said about Scott Brown (Via Jon Stewart I'll admit) and now I'll say while he doesn't seem as dangerous as Beck, he's doubtlessly just as nuts...
what's nuts is the fact that voters have made him relevant...same with the others
| 29 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:58:00pm |
re: #27 brookly red
truth is power sometimes.
Sometimes, but often not. More often loudness and conviction overpower truth. Most people will follow the leader who is seems to be the strongest.
| 30 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:58:48pm |
re: #28 albusteve
what's nuts is the fact that voters have made him relevant...same with the others
aaaah the voters... damn how they always seem to get in the way.
| 31 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:59:38pm |
re: #7 Walter L. Newton
I'm surprised you did correct my #1. I noticed my mistake after posting it.
I thought that was a clever Walter pun!
| 32 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:59:55pm |
re: #29 Dark_Falcon
Sometimes, but often not. More often loudness and conviction overpower truth. Most people will follow the leader who is seems to be the strongest.
America loves a winner.....
Though doubtlessly Paton (if he actually said those words) didn't mean them in quite such a cynical tone.....
| 33 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:59:59pm |
re: #29 Dark_Falcon
Sometimes, but often not. More often loudness and conviction overpower truth. Most people will follow the leader who is seems to be the strongest.
what is strongest?..the best campaign machine?...the most money?....I vote for the best hair..and teeth...good teeth is power itself
| 34 |
wrenchwench Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:00:37pm |
re: #20 Floral Giraffe
Charles is on pages 174-175, according to the index.
With that info, and the link to Amazon, I was able to read the paragraph!
| 35 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:02:03pm |
re: #33 albusteve
what is strongest?..the best campaign machine?...the most money?...I vote for the best hair..and teeth...good teeth is power itself
Yep, nothing worse for a pol than a missing front tooth.
| 36 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:02:34pm |
Seems to me that we are in an age of extremism. We've been there for at least a decade now, perhaps longer. Both Left and Right are radicalized, radicalizing, and absolutely certain that the OTHER guy is the real radical.
| 37 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:03:07pm |
re: #35 Spare O'Lake
Yep, nothing worse for a pol than a missing front tooth.
depends on the state and the office, seems to me.
In the land of the dentured, the one-toothed man is king. Or something.
| 38 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:03:34pm |
OT -
Charles has given me permission to examine some of the programming code and data that has been used by Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University for their climate modeling. My information comes from material that was “hacked” from the CRU servers in Britain and released to the public. This material included program code, databases, private emails and documents. Charles indicated that I could use anything I deemed necessary to make my case.
re: #723 Charles
OK, then go ahead and post whatever you think makes your case. I seriously doubt that you're going to be able to show an "inaccuracy," which is what you claimed. And quibbling over quick and dirty methods used to parse a flat file is not the same thing as demonstrating that the code produced inaccurate results.
The legacy program suite and databases that are discussed below have nothing to do with “quick and dirty methods used to parse a flat file.” It has to do with the legacy data modeling software that CRU had used since at least the 1990’s and the datadases that were produced by these legacy programs. As part of Charles’ permission, he stated…
re: #731 Charles
And for your part, you have to prove that a section of code actually produced inaccurate or mistaken results. Not simply that it could have done so. Because that's what you claimed.
As Charles said “I seriously doubt that you're going to be able to show an "inaccuracy,"” Charles may be right. I wasn’t at CRU, I didn’t see the actual data from the time it was generated till the time it appeared in a report or paper (or disappeared), no more than Charles actually saw William Shakespeare pen any of his plays. In the same way Charles could use the historical records to prove Shakespeare did create all of those wonderful plays, I am going to use the historical record of the programmer who was responsible for maintaining, modifying and correcting the legacy programs at CRU who can show us the inaccuracies he found. Meet Mr. Ian “Harry” Harris.
(end part 1)
| 39 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:03:57pm |
(Part 2)
Who is Ian “Harry” Harris? He is a staff member at the Climatic Research Unit at East Anglia University. His short bio on the CRU staff page says this… “Dendroclimatology, climate scenario development, data manipulation and visualisation, programming.” ([Link: www.cru.uea.ac.uk...] He was tasked with maintaining, modifying and rewriting programs from the existing climate modeling software suite that existed at CRU since at least the 1990’s. He kept copious notes of his progress from 2006 through 2009, including his notes and comments internally in the programs themselves and in a 314 page document named “harry_read_me.txt.” If you revel in the minutia of programmer’s notes you can easily find this document on the internet.
I will document 4 different aspects of Ian “Harry” Harris’ notes
1) General comments, inaccurate data bases
2) CRU Time Series 3.0 dataset
3) a RUN dialog
4) Faulty code
Quotes are verbatim, including typos, misspellings and language differences… any other mistakes are mine.
(end part 2)
| 40 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:04:36pm |
re: #36 Guanxi88
Seems to me that we are in an age of extremism. We've been there for at least a decade now, perhaps longer. Both Left and Right are radicalized, radicalizing, and absolutely certain that the OTHER guy is the real radical.
I'd argue (proving your point that both sides want to point fingers) that I feel the left isn't quite as radical as the right, as the Code Pink/Communists don't have their own major news network cheering them on the way the Tea Party people have Faux News.....
| 41 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:04:40pm |
re: #37 Guanxi88
depends on the state and the office, seems to me.
In the land of the dentured, the one-toothed man is king. Or something.
in the land of the indentured, teeth don't count....move those rocks, build that wall
| 42 |
Ojoe Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:04:55pm |
OK this is a good thread to post the new website of the Modern Whig Party.
Check out the centrist Modern Whig Party, and if you like what you see, please consider joining.
| 43 |
wrenchwench Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:05:03pm |
re: #34 wrenchwench
With that info, and the link to Amazon, I was able to read the paragraph!
...and the following ones, which look like one of LGF's "We Got Mail!" posts, but with the mail addressed to Kathleen Parker. NSFW.
| 44 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:05:26pm |
(Part 3)
1) General comments from the “harry_read_me.txt.” about the CRU programs and data.
Here is Ian “Harry” Harris talking about both the legacy programs and legacy climate databases and the new data he is trying to create.
“Oh GOD if I could start this project again and actually argue the case for junking the inherited program suite!!”
WLN note: This is the program suite that has been generating data for years for CRU and staff.
...knowing how long it takes to debug this suite - the experiment endeth here. The option (like all the anomdtb options) is totally undocumented so we'll never know what we lost.”
WLN note: Remember, Dr. Phil Jones, head of CRU initially said they never lost any data.
“Sounds familiar, if worrying. am I the first person to attempt to get the CRU databases in working order?!! The program pulls no punches. I had already found that tmx.0702091313.dtb had seven more stations than tmn.0702091313.dtb, but that hadn't prepared me for the grisly truth:”
“Getting seriously fed up with the state of the Australian data. so many new stations have been introduced, so many false references.. so many changes that aren't documented. Every time a cloud forms I'm presented with a bewildering selection of similar-sounding sites, some with references, some with WMO codes, and some with both. And if I look up the station metadata with one of the local references, chances are the WMO code will be wrong (another station will have it) and the lat/lon will be wrong too.”
WLN note: How were they generating temperature data on their world grid in the past if they couldn’t even match up stations?
“I am very sorry to report that the rest of the databases seem to be in nearly as poor a state as Australia was. There are hundreds if not thousands of pairs of dummy stations, one with no WMO and one with, usually overlapping and with the same station name and very similar coordinates. I know it could be old and new stations, but why such large overlaps if that's the case? Aarrggghhh!”
“So.. should I really go to town (again) and allow the Master database to be 'fixed' by this program? Quite honestly I don't have time - but it just shows the state our data holdings have drifted into. Who added those two series together? When? Why? Untraceable, except anecdotally. It's the same story for many other Russian stations, unfortunately - meaning that (probably) there was a full Russian update that did no data integrity checking at all. I just hope it's restricted to Russia!!”WLN note: Fixed? What does that mean? And why the quotes? This is live data Ian is talking about.
“This still meant an awful lot of encounters with naughty Master stations, when really I suspect nobody else gives a hoot about. So with a somewhat cynical shrug, I added the nuclear option - to match every WMO possible, and turn the rest into new stations (er, CLIMAT excepted). In other words, what CRU usually do. It will allow bad databases to pass unnoticed, and good databases to become bad, but I really don't think people care enough to fix 'em, and it's the main reason the project is nearly a year late.”
WLN note: This is about the strongest statement Ian makes about the state of the data at CRU
“The big question must be, why does it have so little representation in the low numbers? Especially given that I'm rounding erroneous negatives up to 1!! Oh, sod it. It'll do. I don't think I can justify spending any longer on a dataset, the previous version of which was completely wrong (misnamed) and nobody noticed for five years.”
| 45 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:05:30pm |
re: #33 albusteve
what is strongest?..the best campaign machine?...the most money?...I vote for the best hair..and teeth...good teeth is power itself
well I would kinda like a job... I know I am just 1 of 20 million winers who is too stupid to understand the brilliance of the nuance of the new social awareness... but in my ignorance could lash out.
| 46 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:05:32pm |
| 47 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:05:52pm |
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
A Top Hamas commander - snuffed out in Dubai. Suffocated, in fact.
And it looks to have been done by Arabs, if Hamas statements are to be believed:
"A preliminary investigation conducted by Hamas suggests that the assassination of one of its officials in Dubai last month was likely carried out by agents of an Arab government, and not by Israel's Mossad spy agency."
Just a bit of perspective - we haven't reached this degree of radicalization yet.
| 48 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:06:04pm |
“This was used to inform the Fortran conversion programs by indicating the latitude-potential_sun and sun-to-cloud relationships. It also assisted greatly in understanding what was wrong – Tim was in fact calculating Cloud Percent, despite calling it Sun Percent!! Just awful.”WLN note: Dr. Tim Osborn or Dr. Tim Mitchell? CRU - [Link: www.cru.uea.ac.uk...]
“They aren't percentage anomalies! They are percentage anomalies /10. This could explain why the real data areas had variability 10x too low. BUT it shouldn't be - they should be regular percentage anomalies! This whole process is too convoluted and created myriad problems of this kind. I really think we should change it.”
“Am I the first person to attempt to get the CRU databases in working order?!!”
“Right, time to stop pussyfooting around the niceties of Tim's labyrinthine software suites - let's have a go at producing CRU TS 3.0! since failing to do that will be the definitive failure of the entire project..”
“OH FUCK THIS. It's Sunday evening, I've worked all weekend, and just when I thought it was done I'm hitting yet another problem that's based on the hopeless state of our databases. There is no uniform data integrity, it's just a catalogue of issues that continues to grow as they're found.”
Remember, he is talking about legacy programs and legacy data.
(end part 3)
| 49 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:06:47pm |
(Part 4)
2) About the CRU Time Series 3.0 dataset.
Remember all the comments I posted here about HARCRUT3 dataset, which contains global temperature readings from 1850 onward and the possible problems with the data in that database. Well, HADCRUT3 is built from CRUTEM3 and the Hadley SST data. CRUTEM3 is built partially from CRU TS 3.0 which is mentioned above. And much of the data used for climate modeling in the past was contained in earlier versions of this data table CRU TS 2.1, CRU TS 2.0, CRU TS 1.1 and CRU TS 1.0… table used for earlier climate models. (see history of CRU TS at [Link: csi.cgiar.org...]
Evidently Ian “Harry” Harris managed to finally produce the dataset CRU TS 3.0 and here is a question from Dr Daniel Kingston, addressed to “Tim.”
So, you release a dataset that people have been clamouring for, and the buggers only start using it! And finding problems. For instance:
Hi Tim (good start! -ed)
I realise you are likely to be very busy at the moment, but we have come across something in the CRU TS 3.0 data set which I hope you can help out with.
We have been looking at the monthly precipitation totals over southern Africa (Angola, to be precise), and have found some rather large differences between precipitation as specified in the TS 2.1 data set, and the new TS 3.0 version. Specifically, April 1967 for the cell 12.75 south, 16.25 east, the monthly total in the TS 2.1 data set is 251mm, whereas in TS 3.0 it is 476mm.The anomaly does not only appear in this cell, but also in a number of neighbouring cells. This is quite a large difference, and the new TS 3.0 value doesn't entirely tie in with what we might have expected from the station-based precip data we have for this area.
Would it be possible for you could have a quick look into this issue?
Many thanks,
Dr Daniel Kingston
Post Doctoral Research Associate
Department of Geography
University College London
And here is Ian “Harry” Harris’ answer.
Well, it's a good question! And it took over two weeks to answer. I wrote angola.m, which pretty much established that three local stations had been augmented for 3.0, and that April 1967 was anomalously wet. Lots of non-reporting stations (ie too few years to form normals) also had high values. As part of this, I also wrote angola3.m, which added two rather interesting plots: the climatology, and the output from the Fortran gridder I'd just completed. This raised a couple of points of interest:
1. The 2.10 output doesn't look like the climatology, despite there being no stations in the area. It ought to have simply relaxed to the clim, instead it's wetter.
2. The gridder output is lower than 3.0, and much lower than the stations!
I asked Tim and Phil about 1., they couldn't give a definitive opinion. As for 2., their guesses were correct, I needed to mod the distance weighting. As usual, see gridder.sandpit for the full info.
So to CLOUD. For over a year, rumours have been circulating that money had been found to pay somebody for a month to recreate Mark New's coefficients. But it never quite gelled. Now, at last, someone's producing them! Unfortunately.. it's me.
The idea is to derive the coefficients (for the regressing of cloud against DTR) using the published 2.10 data. We'll use 5-degree blocks and years 1951-2002, then produce coefficients for each 5-degree latitude band and month. Finally, we'll interpolate to get half-degree coefficients. Apparently.
| 50 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:07:01pm |
re: #40 jamesfirecat
I'd argue (proving your point that both sides want to point fingers) that I feel the left isn't quite as radical as the right, as the Code Pink/Communists don't have their own major news network cheering them on the way the Tea Party people have Faux News...
See, and from the Right, I'd say that whereas we have known Reds and worse hob-nobbing in the elite circles of Leftist power, we have vanishingly few Phalangists or Minutemen in similar positions on the Right.
| 51 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:07:16pm |
Lots of 'issues'. We need to exclude 'background' stations - those that were relaxed to the climatology. This is hard to detect because the climatology consists of valid values, so testing for equivalence isn't enough. It might have to be the station files *shudder*.
Using station files was OK, actually. A bigger problem was the inclusion of strings of consecutive, identical values (for cloud and/or dtr). Not sure what the source is, as they are not == to the climatology (ie the anoms are not 0). Discussed with Phil - decided to
try excluding any cell with a string like that of >10 values. Cloud only for now. The result of that was, unfortunately, the loss of several output values,
(end part 4)
| 52 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:07:33pm |
(Part 5)
3) Run dialogs
Ian “Harry” Harris did a very good job of documenting his different “runs” of the programs, clipping and pasting the “run time dialog” into his “harry_read_me.txt.” document. Run time dialog is the text, messages and input prompts that appear on the screen when you run the program. You can see below that the original programmers of the CRU program suite had a “lively” style of informative messages to the end user. Here is a message you get when running an “update” program to merge temperature reporting stations.
Before we get started, an important question: If you are merging an update - CLIMAT, MCDW, Australian - do you want the quick and dirty approach? This will blindly match on WMO codes alone, ignoring data/metadata checks, and making any unmatched updates into new stations (metadata permitting)?
Enter 'B' for blind merging, or : B
Do you know what this program produced? Bad records, an incomplete dataset. Records with station identifiers missing, stations duplicated, no checks for missing data. And if the program had data it didn’t know what to do with, it turned the data into a new station, even if it didn’t really know what that data was in reference to.
Remember, these are the legacy programs that CRU used to generate data. These were live programs, live data. Ian “Harry” Harris was trying to fix and modify these programs, because many of them produced invalid data.
(end part 5)
| 53 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:07:50pm |
(Part 6)
4) Example of faulty code.
Here is one example, from Ian “Harry” Harris, about an already existing function, one that had been used to generated data in the past.
Back to precip, it seems the variability is too low. This points to a problem with the percentage anomaly routines. See earlier escapades - will the Curse of Tim never be lifted?
A reminder. I started off using a 'conventional' calculation
absgrid(ilon(i),ilat(i)) = nint(normals(i,imo) + * anoms(ilon(i),ilat(i)) * normals(i,imo)
/ 100) which is: V = N + AN/100This was shown to be delivering unrealistic values, so I went back to anomdtb to see how the anomalies were contructed in the first place, and found this:
DataA(XAYear,XMonth,XAStn) = nint(1000.0*((real(DataA(XAYear,XMonth,XAStn)) / & real(NormMean(XMonth,XAStn)))-1.0)) which is: A = 1000((V/N)-1)
So, I reverse engineered that to get this: V = N(A+1000)/1000
And that is apparently also delivering incorrect values. Bwaaaahh!!
Harry eventually fixed this, so in the future it would produce accurate data, but one wonders how many times data was pushed through this formula in the past and how much invalid data was generated from this faulty function.
(end part 6)
| 54 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:08:14pm |
(Part 7)
Afterward;
Remember Ian “Harry” Harris was working on a legacy program suite, not some “quick and dirty methods.” A suite of programs and datasets used by CRU for climate modeling and in use for many years. If you want to, read his 314 pages of notes that detail better than I could all of the problems he ran into trying to work with those existing legacy programs.
Does this information presented here disprove AGW? Of course not. There are many other scientific organizations besides the CRU. But it does highlight, with provable facts that the CRU in themselves have been responsible for bad data, bad programs and as we have seen by the dust up about the ignored Freedom of Information Act requests that was issued to CRU, responsible for trying to cover up their mistakes. This is bad science and unfair to all the honest scientist the world over who are diligently working on honest climate science.
Addendum:
You have to give Ian “Harry” Harris a lot of credit. Evidently he has been responsible for cleaning up a lot of the mistakes that have existed in climate based datasets in the past. This little narrative represents some of his work with NCEP/NCAR Reanalysis. (National Centers for Environmental Prediction – NOAA - [Link: www.ncep.noaa.gov...]
[Link: www.cru.uea.ac.uk...]
1948-1957 Data Added (Ian Harris, 22 Jul 2008)
2007 Data Added (Ian Harris, 17 Apr 2008)
2006 Data Added (Ian Harris, 11 Mar 2007)
2005 Data Added (Ian Harris, 13 Jan 2006)
2004 Data Added (Ian Harris, 28 Nov 2005)
2003 Data Added (Ian Harris, 11 May 2004)
SURFACE TEMPERATURE ADDED (Ian Harris, 10 December 2003)
WARNING NOTE ADDED FOR SURFACE FLUX TEMPERATURES (Ian Harris, 10 December 2003)
ALL DATASETS UPDATED TO 2002 (Ian Harris, 23 June 2003)
LAND/SEA MASKS ADDED (Ian Harris, 16 December 2002)
Land/Sea Masks for regular and Gaussian grids have been added.
NEW WINDOW ONLINE (Ian Harris, 9 July 2002)
The new Quarter-Spherical Window (0N-90N; 90W-90E) is now in use (see table below).The old window data (here) has now been entirely replaced.
Please address any requests for new variables to me.
BAD DATA REPLACED (Ian Harris, 23 May 2002)
The TOVS Problem has been resolved and only corrected data appears on this site.Anyone wishing to access the old (potentially incorrect) data in order to evaluate the extent of the problem should contact me.
The last entry in that narrative is interesting.
References.
Download this essay in PDF format Download Ian Harris' 314 pages of programmers notes in PDF format
(end comment 7)
| 55 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:08:38pm |
re: #35 Spare O'Lake
Yep, nothing worse for a pol than a missing front tooth.
except for one missing a backbone.
| 56 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:09:23pm |
(oops, last link busted, fixed)
Download this essay in PDF format
Download Ian Harris' 314 pages of programmers notes in PDF format
| 59 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:10:07pm |
re: #40 jamesfirecat
I'd argue (proving your point that both sides want to point fingers) that I feel the left isn't quite as radical as the right, as the Code Pink/Communists don't have their own major news network cheering them on the way the Tea Party people have Faux News...
re: #50 Guanxi88
See, and from the Right, I'd say that whereas we have known Reds and worse hob-nobbing in the elite circles of Leftist power, we have vanishingly few Phalangists or Minutemen in similar positions on the Right.
And let me add, the radicalization under way is precisely because the Right sees Reds and the Left sees Nazis on the other side.
It's a damned tricky state of affairs, because, of course, there's some (limited) truth to both sides.
| 60 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:10:33pm |
re: #42 Ojoe
OK this is a good thread to post the new website of the Modern Whig Party.
Check out the centrist Modern Whig Party, and if you like what you see, please consider joining.
I don't like your stance that Roe V Wade should be repealed to let things instead be decided on a state by state basis.
Also I'd like to see you be willing to push that each state has a duty to come up with a non profit healthcare plan of some sort as an alternative to for profit industries....
| 61 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:11:01pm |
Uh, OK.
Walter, what you've demonstrated is that there were inaccuracies in the program output -- that were found and fixed by the programmer.
This is hardly what you promised, and not what I specifically spelled out either. All programs have errors, and they get fixed as the program is developed further. There's absolutely nothing unusual or remarkable about that.
You were going to show that inaccurate data used in the real world had been produced by the code. Not that it once produced inaccurate data before it was fixed.
You didn't do that.
| 62 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:11:17pm |
Move too far to the right or the left and you end up in the gutter. I'm perfectly content to ride the current political climate out here in the middle of the road. Although I have to dodge cars coming at me from both sides.
| 63 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:11:46pm |
re: #60 jamesfirecat
I don't like your stance that Roe V Wade should be repealed to let things instead be decided on a state by state basis.
Also I'd like to see you be willing to push that each state has a duty to come up with a non profit healthcare plan of some sort as an alternative to for profit industries...
enumerated powers?
| 64 |
Ojoe Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:12:41pm |
re: #60 jamesfirecat
Well the Whigsare still tiny & I will get your input to the folks who are deciding those sorts of things.
| 65 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:14:09pm |
re: #57 cliffster
PIMF, Walter
Quotes are verbatim, including typos, misspellings and language differences… any other mistakes are mine. I may have made a few mistakes... I went over the document a number of times and it was reviewed by 4 Lizards before it was released.
| 66 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:14:50pm |
re: #53 Walter L. Newton
Harry eventually fixed this, so in the future it would produce accurate data, but one wonders how many times data was pushed through this formula in the past and how much invalid data was generated from this faulty function.
Quoted where you turned it around. Two points.
1) You admit it was fixed.
2) "One may wonder". Implying harm is a no-no.
In general, you proved that a programmer had a hell of a time with the legacy systems (hardly a surprise, as anyone whose worked with that kind of thing can tell you), and that he hated having to fix it. Also you proved that 'one may wonder' what harm it did to the data.
| 67 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:15:10pm |
re: #65 Walter L. Newton
Just kidding, buddy. I wouldn't expect you to preview every single post as you paste them in.
| 68 |
wrenchwench Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:15:21pm |
re: #42 Ojoe
OK this is a good thread to post the new website of the Modern Whig Party.
Check out the centrist Modern Whig Party, and if you like what you see, please consider joining.
I think the first sentence of this part is weak:
Gay RightsEach state can determine the extended rights of homosexuals based on their own local values. We do, however, support classifying as a federal hate crime attacks on people based on their perceived sexual orientation. In essence, the sexual orientation of the guy down the street has no bearing on anybody else's life.
...and seems to conflict with this, under "Principles ':
SOCIAL ACCEPTANCE - When the government is compelled to legislate morality, every citizen should be considered as equal.
| 69 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:15:26pm |
re: #34 wrenchwench
Dang, that's what I was trying to do!
BRB.
| 70 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:15:52pm |
re: #60 jamesfirecat
I don't like your stance that Roe V Wade should be repealed to let things instead be decided on a state by state basis.Also I'd like to see you be willing to push that each state has a duty to come up with a non profit healthcare plan of some sort as an alternative to for profit industries...
well of course you wouldn't...Federalism is not something liberals are typically tune into
| 71 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:16:15pm |
re: #50 Guanxi88
See, and from the Right, I'd say that whereas we have known Reds and worse hob-nobbing in the elite circles of Leftist power, we have vanishingly few Phalangists or Minutemen in similar positions on the Right.
To which I in turn would respond, it's not about a few people who are hob-nobbing with those in power it's about the state of your base. Politicians will do what it takes to get elected and the way the right base is trending crazier (as evidenced by recent polls Charles has posted among other things) would argue that the candidates you end up electing are going to by nature be crazier, or at least in thrall to the crazies. I feel the braying of the masses matter far more than a few words whispered in anyone's ear....
(No offense intended trying to be scholarly about this.)
| 72 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:16:19pm |
re: #52 Walter L. Newton
(Part 5)
3) Run dialogs
Ian “Harry” Harris did a very good job of documenting his different “runs” of the programs, clipping and pasting the “run time dialog” into his “harry_read_me.txt.” document. Run time dialog is the text, messages and input prompts that appear on the screen when you run the program. You can see below that the original programmers of the CRU program suite had a “lively” style of informative messages to the end user. Here is a message you get when running an “update” program to merge temperature reporting stations.
Do you know what this program produced? Bad records, an incomplete dataset. Records with station identifiers missing, stations duplicated, no checks for missing data. And if the program had data it didn’t know what to do with, it turned the data into a new station, even if it didn’t really know what that data was in reference to.
Remember, these are the legacy programs that CRU used to generate data. These were live programs, live data. Ian “Harry” Harris was trying to fix and modify these programs, because many of them produced invalid data.
(end part 5)
This one I'll address, because an option to generate a "quick and dirty" merge is just that -- an OPTION. And there could be many reasons to have that option -- it might be faster when a scientist just wants to check a particular bit of data and doesn't care about a permanent database record, for example. There are MANY ways to interpret that, but assuming that it means incorrect data was generated is not reasonable, especially when the warning you mention explicitly tells the program's user what is going to happen.
As far as I can tell, you've completely struck out here, Walter.
| 73 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:16:43pm |
re: #54 Walter L. Newton
So in other words:
No, you couldn't actually back up your claim, that you could show that the code resulted in an error.
| 74 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:16:45pm |
re: #61 Charles
Uh, OK.
Walter, what you've demonstrated is that there were inaccuracies in the program output -- that were found and fixed by the programmer.
This is hardly what you promised, and not what I specifically spelled out either. All programs have errors, and they get fixed as the program is developed further. There's absolutely nothing unusual or remarkable about that.
You were going to show that inaccurate data used in the real world had been produced by the code. Not that it once produced inaccurate data before it was fixed.
You didn't do that.
Harry was fixing programs and data that was being created and used since the 1990, previously written by "Tim."
A simple example of that is when CRU TS 3.0 was sent out, for scientific use, and Harry says...
So, you release a dataset that people have been clamouring for, and the buggers only start using it! And finding problems. For instance:
And then he list a email sent to Tim in regards to mistakes in that live database.
| 75 |
Bubblehead II Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:16:58pm |
Time to call it a night
May you all have a good night.
Walter, I will read your posts in the morning.
The BH II rules now in effect.
And I think I am walking into a mine field
L8R All
| 76 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:18:11pm |
re: #66 windsagio
Quoted where you turned it around. Two points.
1) You admit it was fixed.
2) "One may wonder". Implying harm is a no-no.
In general, you proved that a programmer had a hell of a time with the legacy systems (hardly a surprise, as anyone whose worked with that kind of thing can tell you), and that he hated having to fix it. Also you proved that 'one may wonder' what harm it did to the data.
What he fixed was fixed during the period from 2006-2009, what he was fixing was legacy programs that produced faulty data from the 1990's.
| 79 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:19:48pm |
re: #73 Obdicut
So in other words:
No, you couldn't actually back up your claim, that you could show that the code resulted in an error.
(comment from Harry)
So, you release a dataset that people have been clamouring for, and the buggers only start using it! And finding problems. For instance:
Sounds like live data, sent to scientists to me.
| 80 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:20:00pm |
re: #71 jamesfirecat
To which I in turn would respond, it's not about a few people who are hob-nobbing with those in power it's about the state of your base. Politicians will do what it takes to get elected and the way the right base is trending crazier (as evidenced by recent polls Charles has posted among other things) would argue that the candidates you end up electing are going to by nature be crazier, or at least in thrall to the crazies. I feel the braying of the masses matter far more than a few words whispered in anyone's ear...
(No offense intended trying to be scholarly about this.)
To which I'd reply:
Yes, the base are the telling thing; the base & the leadership on the Left seem to have no real problem with courting and/or seeking out the support of, some tremendously questionable folk on the Left. These associations are important to the extent that they suggest the leadership is in touch with the base, and is aware that these open associations are not only known and acceptable to a large portion of the base, but are, indeed, appealing to certain influential elements within the base itself.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact that a centrist like BHO had to go to and be seen in, the church of Jeremiah Wright in order to firm up his bona fides tells one a great deal about the state of Democratic politics in Chicago.
| 82 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:21:10pm |
re: #78 Racer X
Sum it up for me.
Read Ian Harris' notes and my essay. His notes are 314 pages long, my essay 9 pages, my essay does sum it up.
| 83 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:21:20pm |
re: #64 Ojoe
Well the Whigsare still tiny & I will get your input to the folks who are deciding those sorts of things.
Yeah, I mean why don't you just say that your people will support the law of the land on abortion?
You can't make Roe V Wade go away without having a president in the White House to appoint new Judges and it seems foolish to be promising such big things right out of the gate.
Not to mention there are those who would say your current position on the issue for better or worse is just kicking the can down the street to the State level.
Also if its illegal in one state but legal in another, will there be penalties for crossing over into the state where it is legal to get it?
(Not trying to be sarcastic serious questions)
| 84 |
A Man for all Seasons Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:21:33pm |
re: #61 Charles
Uh, OK.
Walter, what you've demonstrated is that there were inaccuracies in the program output -- that were found and fixed by the programmer.
This is hardly what you promised, and not what I specifically spelled out either. All programs have errors, and they get fixed as the program is developed further. There's absolutely nothing unusual or remarkable about that.
You were going to show that inaccurate data used in the real world had been produced by the code. Not that it once produced inaccurate data before it was fixed.
You didn't do that.
Anytime our Company has issues we upgrade our Software....Jeez when I think of all the upgrades over the years...Global weather models will advance us...
I find some that attribute evil intent sadley mistaken..Can you imagine Phil at Bad Astronomy purposely using bad code? Never!
This is exactly why I believe America needs to get investing in Science...
They need the best tools available
| 85 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:21:47pm |
re: #79 Walter L. Newton
Your claim was that you could show faulty code that produced an error. Instead, you are now simply quoting the out-of context hacked emails.
| 86 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:21:56pm |
re: #61 Charles
Uh, OK.
Walter, what you've demonstrated is that there were inaccuracies in the program output -- that were found and fixed by the programmer.
This is hardly what you promised, and not what I specifically spelled out either. All programs have errors, and they get fixed as the program is developed further. There's absolutely nothing unusual or remarkable about that.
You were going to show that inaccurate data used in the real world had been produced by the code. Not that it once produced inaccurate data before it was fixed.
You didn't do that.
I actually feel bad for the scientists busting their ass to get good data from confusing input and a buggy program. I think we can fairly question the absolute accuracy of that data set after all the corrections they had to make.
The one thing I got from Walter's report was scientists trying their hardest to good science with all the problems confronting them.
I see no signs of "cooking data" to fit a agenda, quite the contrary, they seemed to be trying to get it right.
The main point for me is that even if they did not correct every error despite trying their damnest, it's not the only data set that shows warming.
| 87 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:22:09pm |
re: #82 Walter L. Newton
Read Ian Harris' notes and my essay. His notes are 314 pages long, my essay 9 pages, my essay does sum it up.
Whoa! This could take a while!
| 88 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:22:29pm |
re: #77 brookly red
resistance is futile.
I am looking for a fight, the narrative by the programmer Ian Harris speaks for itself, and if you want, read all 314 pages of his notes. I only touched on the tip of the iceberg.
| 89 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:22:37pm |
re: #80 Guanxi88
To which I'd reply:
Yes, the base are the telling thing; the base & the leadership on the Left seem to have no real problem with courting and/or seeking out the support of, some tremendously questionable folk on the Left. These associations are important to the extent that they suggest the leadership is in touch with the base, and is aware that these open associations are not only known and acceptable to a large portion of the base, but are, indeed, appealing to certain influential elements within the base itself.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact that a centrist like BHO had to go to and be seen in, the church of Jeremiah Wright in order to firm up his bona fides tells one a great deal about the state of Democratic politics in Chicago.
this is going to get ugly, no way around it.
| 90 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:22:54pm |
re: #76 Walter L. Newton
There are still some problems;
mainly its one guy bitching (in, remember, a carefully trimmed list of emails, you only see him complaining about the legacy code). Beyond that, there's no evidence that any of the data returning 'apparently incorrect values' was ever published.
In general you're a ton of assumptions short of 'proof'.
It does raise concerns tho'!
| 91 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:23:45pm |
re: #89 brookly red
this is going to get ugly, no way around it.
No, I think we're conducting this as an exercise, exploration, and demonstration of the phenomenon in question.
Left and Right are radicalized, and claim they are going this way in reaction to the prior radicalization of the other side. There's no way OUT of this, except to go through it, seems to me.
| 92 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:23:54pm |
re: #63 brookly red
enumerated powers?
Spell it out for me a little more clearly if that isn't too much to ask....
In my opinion Abortion is about someone's right to not have anyone else make use of their organs against their will, as own organs are our most "private" of private property.
| 93 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:24:31pm |
re: #88 Walter L. Newton
I am looking for a fight, the narrative by the programmer Ian Harris speaks for itself, and if you want, read all 314 pages of his notes. I only touched on the tip of the iceberg.
I got you hommie... but 00 the house wins. it's like that & that's the way it is.
| 94 |
Ojoe Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:24:33pm |
re: #68 wrenchwench
OK thanks for the info it's going to HQ & will make a difference.
| 95 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:24:37pm |
re: #85 Obdicut
Your claim was that you could show faulty code that produced an error. Instead, you are now simply quoting the out-of context hacked emails.
None of the information in the above essay came from a single email. It came from...
Download Ian Harris' 314 pages of programmers notes in PDF format
And yes, if you read the essay above, I do give you a code example, an example of a live function that was used in the legacy program suite that would wrong.
| 96 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:24:57pm |
re: #80 Guanxi88
To which I'd reply:
Yes, the base are the telling thing; the base & the leadership on the Left seem to have no real problem with courting and/or seeking out the support of, some tremendously questionable folk on the Left. These associations are important to the extent that they suggest the leadership is in touch with the base, and is aware that these open associations are not only known and acceptable to a large portion of the base, but are, indeed, appealing to certain influential elements within the base itself.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact that a centrist like BHO had to go to and be seen in, the church of Jeremiah Wright in order to firm up his bona fides tells one a great deal about the state of Democratic politics in Chicago.
Quite Concur.
| 97 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:25:29pm |
re: #78 Racer X
Sum it up for me.
Now, now, lets let him finish he's only posted like four of seven parts hasn't he?
| 98 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:25:38pm |
re: #89 brookly red
this is going to get ugly, no way around it.
I don't consider J Wright and BOs Chicago background a dead horse at all...his seedy friends and strong arm politics define who he is...people have short memories...BO was made, otherwise there is simply nothing to him...this is why I despise the fools that voted for him
| 99 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:25:40pm |
re: #91 Guanxi88
No, I think we're conducting this as an exercise, exploration, and demonstration of the phenomenon in question.
Left and Right are radicalized, and claim they are going this way in reaction to the prior radicalization of the other side. There's no way OUT of this, except to go through it, seems to me.
And that radicalization just caused a sane Senator to quit the Senate.
| 100 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:25:45pm |
Good, another sign that the middle is starting to wake up and express themselves openly that they are fed up with partisan games. The tea parties weren't a completely insane idea, it is just that they were organized by mostly insane people.
Now we see them splitting themselves as some of them attempt to become serious and shed the crazy label. I wish the sane among them luck in coming back to the middle. (Right, of course)
| 101 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:26:38pm |
re: #90 windsagio
There are still some problems;
mainly its one guy bitching (in, remember, a carefully trimmed list of emails, you only see him complaining about the legacy code). Beyond that, there's no evidence that any of the data returning 'apparently incorrect values' was ever published.
In general you're a ton of assumptions short of 'proof'.
It does raise concerns tho'!
This is not EMAILS... this is a 314 page narrative by the CRU programer Ian Harris and the notes he made as he went though years and years of live legacy program code and was finding error after error.
This is his diary of the work he did and the problems he found, problems he found with LIVE LEGACY PROGRAMS AND DATA.
| 102 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:26:47pm |
re: #99 Dark_Falcon
And that radicalization just caused a sane Senator to quit the Senate.
See? This is what I'm getting at.
Now, coming from the Right, I am, to a certain extent, blinded to certain aspects of the phenomenon, but I can still see it happening. The middle ground is getting deserted.
| 103 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:27:00pm |
re: #97 jamesfirecat
Now, now, lets let him finish he's only posted like four of seven parts hasn't he?
I've posted the whole thing.
| 104 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:27:29pm |
Another point -- bugs get fixed because they get noticed.
Bugs that don't get noticed can live on in code for a long time, before the particular combination of events that triggers a problem result, and gets them noticed.
The fact that bugs existed in the code is absolutely NOT proof that any inaccurate data was produced or used in any situation. These bugs may not have caused any ill effects -- because if they had, the chances are that the scientists who used the program would have noticed, and then the bug would have been fixed.
| 105 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:27:49pm |
re: #102 Guanxi88
See? This is what I'm getting at.
Now, coming from the Right, I am, to a certain extent, blinded to certain aspects of the phenomenon, but I can still see it happening. The middle ground is getting deserted.
I see enough to make me...dislike...the left and the right.
| 106 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:27:56pm |
re: #92 jamesfirecat
Spell it out for me a little more clearly if that isn't too much to ask...
In my opinion Abortion is about someone's right to not have anyone else make use of their organs against their will, as own organs are our most "private" of private property.
OK, not a decision that the federal government is empowered to make... hence states rights. Your opinion may be right or wrong but it ain't spelled out in the Constitution so states right is the default mode.
| 107 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:27:56pm |
re: #95 Walter L. Newton
You never proved that error made it into published data.
I keep saying it, but you won't address it.
There's no evidence any of these problems in the code led to any incorrect published findings. And my impression is that is what you were going to prove.
Like someone else said, the stuff you quote shows someone doing a hard awful job, and complaining about it. It sounds like they had their work cut out for them trying to clean it out. That being said, theres still no proof of anything broken getting out.
| 108 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:27:59pm |
re: #95 Walter L. Newton
Your claim was that you could show faulty code that produced an actual inaccuracy in the data.
You did not do so.
Are you willing to admit that?
| 109 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:28:05pm |
re: #80 Guanxi88
To which I'd reply:
Yes, the base are the telling thing; the base & the leadership on the Left seem to have no real problem with courting and/or seeking out the support of, some tremendously questionable folk on the Left. These associations are important to the extent that they suggest the leadership is in touch with the base, and is aware that these open associations are not only known and acceptable to a large portion of the base, but are, indeed, appealing to certain influential elements within the base itself.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact that a centrist like BHO had to go to and be seen in, the church of Jeremiah Wright in order to firm up his bona fides tells one a great deal about the state of Democratic politics in Chicago.
In the particular example you listed of BHO and Jeremiah Wright, let me give you a more harmless interpretation which may or may not be true but you should consider.
Do you think its possible it could have been less about seeing BHO in that church and more about seeing BHO in A CHURCH? If we only just barely managed to elect a catholic half a century ago, something tells me an athetistic/agnostic would have had no chance running for President....
| 110 |
TampaKnight Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:29:00pm |
I like moderation as it forces one to take stock and think before reacting. But I also think that perpetual middle ground leads to complacency and eventually it becomes a bad thing.
| 111 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:29:01pm |
re: #105 Varek Raith
I see enough to make me...dislike...the left and the right.
don't be fooled...govt is not your friend, regardless of the direction the tax you from
| 112 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:29:51pm |
re: #109 jamesfirecat
In the particular example you listed of BHO and Jeremiah Wright, let me give you a more harmless interpretation which may or may not be true but you should consider.
Do you think its possible it could have been less about seeing BHO in that church and more about seeing BHO in A CHURCH? If we only just barely managed to elect a catholic half a century ago, something tells me an athetistic/agnostic would have had no chance running for President...
now THAT I'd agree with you on. No way we're ready for an open atheist/agnostic, undecided.
Hell, it amazes me we even had ONE Catholic pres, truth be told.
| 113 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:29:51pm |
re: #111 albusteve
don't be fooled...govt is not your friend, regardless of the direction the tax you from
I never trusted the Gov, nor just about anyone...
;)
| 114 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:30:07pm |
re: #101 Walter L. Newton
This is not EMAILS... this is a 314 page narrative by the CRU programer Ian Harris and the notes he made as he went though years and years of live legacy program code and was finding error after error.
This is his diary of the work he did and the problems he found, problems he found with LIVE LEGACY PROGRAMS AND DATA.
Its a hint that your position is weak that you've decided to focus on the mistake I made rather than the content of my objections.
Also, charles said it freaking well in 104. All this analysis shows is that he was doing his freaking job and catching errors.
To say it the fourth (fifth?) time, You have nowhere shown that any of this led to any incorrect data or conclusions being published!
| 115 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:30:53pm |
re: #112 Guanxi88
it was amazing at the time too, although some fraud was involved >>
| 116 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:31:42pm |
re: #109 jamesfirecat
In the particular example you listed of BHO and Jeremiah Wright, let me give you a more harmless interpretation which may or may not be true but you should consider.
Do you think its possible it could have been less about seeing BHO in that church and more about seeing BHO in A CHURCH? If we only just barely managed to elect a catholic half a century ago, something tells me an athetistic/agnostic would have had no chance running for President...
almost all your questions are irrelevant to your point of view....you continuously ask others to frame a subject, which seems to imply you have nothing of your own
| 117 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:31:48pm |
re: #115 windsagio
it was amazing at the time too, although some fraud was involved >>
Well, that kinda stuff's gonna happen.
Nixie was a good(ish) sport about it, though.
| 118 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:31:53pm |
re: #93 brookly red
I got you hommie... but 00 the house wins. it's like that & that's the way it is.
I don't see winners and losers. I see Walter did a lot of work to generate a discussion of the issues. No matter which side of the discussion you are on, it's not about winning and losing, it's about looking at both sides.
I don't think we can prove that the data was perfect or flawed, but we can see the struggle involved in gathering it. I'd be more interested in seeing how the data set in question differs from the others to show accuracy.
| 119 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:32:18pm |
re: #104 Charles
Another point -- bugs get fixed because they get noticed.
Bugs that don't get noticed can live on in code for a long time, before the particular combination of events that triggers a problem result, and gets them noticed.
The fact that bugs existed in the code is absolutely NOT proof that any inaccurate data was produced or used in any situation. These bugs may not have caused any ill effects -- because if they had, the chances are that the scientists who used the program would have noticed, and then the bug would have been fixed.
We are talking about live data, and bugs that created live data, inaccurate live data.
“I am very sorry to report that the rest of the databases seem to be in nearly as poor a state as Australia was. There are hundreds if not thousands of pairs of dummy stations, one with no WMO and one with, usually overlapping and with the same station name and very similar coordinates. I know it could be old and new stations, but why such large overlaps if that's the case? Aarrggghhh!”“So.. should I really go to town (again) and allow the Master database to be 'fixed' by this program? Quite honestly I don't have time - but it just shows the state our data holdings have drifted into. Who added those two series together? When? Why? Untraceable, except anecdotally. It's the same story for many other Russian stations, unfortunately - meaning that (probably) there was a full Russian update that did no data integrity checking at all. I just hope it's restricted to Russia!!”
Ian Harris was put in charge of live legacy programs and data, and his 314 page narrative is a chronological diary of what he encountered with these programs and data.
This data did get into the scientific community, one example as noted above in the section about the CRU TS 3.0 database.
| 120 |
sandbox Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:32:28pm |
Re Sarah Palin, IMO the left and MSM are overrating her prospects in Presidential politics. If she does decide to run for Pres., I can't see her winning any significant primaries. Her lack of depth on the issues will lead many, who like her personally, to vote for someone else in the primaries.
| 121 |
A Man for all Seasons Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:32:35pm |
re: #104 Charles
Another point -- bugs get fixed because they get noticed.
Bugs that don't get noticed can live on in code for a long time, before the particular combination of events that triggers a problem result, and gets them noticed.
The fact that bugs existed in the code is absolutely NOT proof that any inaccurate data was produced or used in any situation. These bugs may not have caused any ill effects -- because if they had, the chances are that the scientists who used the program would have noticed, and then the bug would have been fixed.
I work around programmers all day...
That is a righteous statement Charles..
That is exactly right...No BS...
That is exactly how programming is approached....
| 122 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:32:36pm |
re: #117 Guanxi88
Its always been my opinion that it broke his soul, and was one of the leading causes of his excesses in 68-74. Just a feeling tho ;)
| 123 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:33:09pm |
re: #56 Walter L. Newton
Could you put the totality of your posts on a different web page for future reference?
| 124 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:33:17pm |
re: #101 Walter L. Newton
This is not EMAILS... this is a 314 page narrative by the CRU programer Ian Harris and the notes he made as he went though years and years of live legacy program code and was finding error after error.
This is his diary of the work he did and the problems he found, problems he found with LIVE LEGACY PROGRAMS AND DATA.
So you are saying the bugs resulted in problematic data, and not a situation where the data was being incorrectly massaged?
| 125 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:33:42pm |
re: #123 Conservative Moonbat
Could you put the totality of your posts on a different web page for future reference?
Download this essay in PDF format
Download Ian Harris' 314 pages of programmers notes in PDF format
| 126 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:33:51pm |
| 127 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:34:02pm |
re: #123 Conservative Moonbat
Could you put the totality of your posts on a different web page for future reference?
If I am not mistaken, he has it in a PDF that you can download...
| 128 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:34:20pm |
re: #98 albusteve
I don't consider J Wright and BOs Chicago background a dead horse at all...his seedy friends and strong arm politics define who he is...people have short memories...BO was made, otherwise there is simply nothing to him...this is why I despise the fools that voted for him
I hear you, but it is what it is.
| 129 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:34:24pm |
re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Yeah, what he said.
| 130 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:34:43pm |
re: #122 windsagio
Its always been my opinion that it broke his soul, and was one of the leading causes of his excesses in 68-74. Just a feeling tho ;)
well he finally resolved the nightmare VN mess you donks perped on the country...if you were gracious you'd give him his props for that
| 131 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:34:48pm |
re: #122 windsagio
Its always been my opinion that it broke his soul, and was one of the leading causes of his excesses in 68-74. Just a feeling tho ;)
He's probably one of the most complicated and interesting political figures of the late 20th century.
Militant Quaker, hard-core anti-Communist who opened relations with Red China, peacemaking warrior (after a fashion), paranoid, patriotic, environmentalist, odd, and, the thing I liked best about the man - so obviously uncomfortable in his own skin.
| 132 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:35:03pm |
re: #120 sandbox
Re Sarah Palin, IMO the left and MSM are overrating her prospects in Presidential politics. If she does decide to run for Pres., I can't see her winning any significant primaries. Her lack of depth on the issues will lead many, who like her personally, to vote for someone else in the primaries.
Concur. To win, she'd have to at least not fail badly in the debates, and I think she'd fail badly. She is not skilled at dealing with hardball questions, and that would cost her.
| 133 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:35:18pm |
re: #123 Conservative Moonbat
Could you put the totality of your posts on a different web page for future reference?
Why would you ask that ?
| 134 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:36:04pm |
re: #124 cliffster
So you are saying the bugs resulted in problematic data, and not a situation where the data was being incorrectly massaged?
For the code jockey's out there... an example of massaging the data to force an outcome.
;
; Now prepare for plotting
;
loadct,39
multi_plot,nrow=3,layout='caption'
if !d.name eq 'X' then begin
window,ysize=800
!p.font=-1
endif else begin
!p.font=0
device,/helvetica,/bold,font_size=18
endelse
def_1color,20,color='red'
def_1color,21,color='blue'
def_1color,22,color='black'
;
restore,'compbest_fixed1950.idlsave'
;
plot,timey,comptemp(*,3),/nodata,$
/xstyle,xrange=[1881,1994],xtitle='Year',$
/ystyle,yrange=[-3,3],ytitle='Normalised anomalies',$
; title='Northern Hemisphere temperatures, MXD and corrected MXD'
title='Northern Hemisphere temperatures and MXD reconstruction'
;
yyy=reform(comptemp(*,2))
;mknormal,yyy,timey,refperiod=[1881,1940]
filter_cru,5.,/nan,tsin=yyy,tslow=tslow
oplot,timey,tslow,thick=5,color=22
yyy=reform(compmxd(*,2,1))
;mknormal,yyy,timey,refperiod=[1881,1940]
;
; Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!
;
yrloc=[1400,findgen(19)*5.+1904]
valadj=[0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,-0.1,-0.25,-0.3,0.,-0.1,0.3,0.8,1.2,1.7,2.5,2.6,2.6,$
2.6,2.6,2.6]*0.75 ; fudge factor
if n_elements(yrloc) ne n_elements(valadj) then message,'Oooops!'
;
yearlyadj=interpol(valadj,yrloc,timey)
;
;filter_cru,5.,/nan,tsin=yyy+yearlyadj,tslow=tslow
;oplot,timey,tslow,thick=5,color=20
;
filter_cru,5.,/nan,tsin=yyy,tslow=tslow
oplot,timey,tslow,thick=5,color=21
;
oplot,!x.crange,[0.,0.],linestyle=1
;
plot,[0,1],/nodata,xstyle=4,ystyle=4
;legend,['Northern Hemisphere April-September instrumental temperature',$
; 'Northern Hemisphere MXD',$
; 'Northern Hemisphere MXD corrected for decline'],$
; colors=[22,21,20],thick=[3,3,3],margin=0.6,spacing=1.5
legend,['Northern Hemisphere April-September instrumental temperature',$
'Northern Hemisphere MXD'],$
colors=[22,21],thick=[3,3],margin=0.6,spacing=1.5
;
end
| 135 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:36:13pm |
re: #119 Walter L. Newton
I'm reading the damn thing again, trying to find any real proof that anything actually made it out in any published report.
The closest I can get is a bit saying that at one point in the 3.0 data there was info he thought was wrong. No evidence that it made it to the final tho', you'd think him reporting it in his log might get the error caught.
| 136 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:36:18pm |
Jon Avlon, senior political columnist for The Daily Beast and former speechwriter for Rudy Giuliani, has a new book out called Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America
I wonder what he thinks of Rudy these days.
| 138 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:36:52pm |
re: #74 Walter L. Newton
Isn't the constant finding and fixing of errors kinda how science works?
| 139 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:37:25pm |
re: #134 Walter L. Newton
that sure could use a ton of context, friend.
| 140 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:37:54pm |
Off to smoke my pipe. Back in a few.
(Prince Albert in a Marxman spigot)
| 141 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:37:54pm |
re: #106 brookly red
OK, not a decision that the federal government is empowered to make... hence states rights. Your opinion may be right or wrong but it ain't spelled out in the Constitution so states right is the default mode.
Ahem....
"The principal thrust of appellant's attack on the Texas statutes is that they improperly invade a right, said to be possessed by the pregnant woman, to choose to terminate her pregnancy. Appellant would discover this right in the concept of personal "liberty" embodied in the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause; or in personal, marital, familial, and sexual privacy said to be protected by the Bill of Rights or its penumbras ... or among those rights reserved to the people by the Ninth Amendment ..."
So tell me again how you can't make a Constitutional case for Abortion? Because I believe our Supreme Court already did!
| 142 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:38:40pm |
re: #134 Walter L. Newton
Oh my god. After all this build up, after all your hyping, all you have is the 'artificial correction' thingy, that'd been debunked for months now?
[Link: www.jgc.org...]
Again:
Your claim was that you could show an error in the code that led to an inaccuracy in the data. You have failed to do so.
| 143 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:38:51pm |
re: #131 Guanxi88
Oh I agree, dude was totally fascinating.
In the end, a brilliant, fatally flawed man and president.
| 144 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:39:14pm |
re: #134 Walter L. Newton
I'm not a programmer, but is not a note for a artificial correction put in the code to show a correction for a bug error found ?
| 145 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:39:37pm |
re: #130 albusteve
well he finally resolved the nightmare VN mess you donks perped on the country...if you were gracious you'd give him his props for that
Agreed.
re: #137 windsagio
- for douchey partisanship.
It is not douchey to point out that LBJ screwed up in truly spectacular fashion in Vietnam. It is simply the correct reading of the facts. Nixon did the bad he could with the hand he was dealt, and the South might have stayed independent had Nixon not ordered the Watergate coverup.
| 146 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:39:37pm |
| 147 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:40:00pm |
re: #138 Conservative Moonbat
Isn't the constant finding and fixing of errors kinda how science works?
Yes... and Ian Harris did a good job of finding and fixing errors he found in the programs and the data. He found these errors during the period of 2006-2009.
Unfortunately, the programs that were producing these errors were live legacy programs, use by CRU to do Time Sliced temperature graphs and grids and reports since the 1990's.
He found the problems AFTER THE FACT... starting in 2006.
| 148 |
claire Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:40:26pm |
re: #101 Walter L. Newton
This is not EMAILS... this is a 314 page narrative by the CRU programer Ian Harris and the notes he made as he went though years and years of live legacy program code and was finding error after error.
This is his diary of the work he did and the problems he found, problems he found with LIVE LEGACY PROGRAMS AND DATA.
To what degree did it affect the end results, though? Which data? Temp? Precip? Other? What year/years? What region? How much of the data? 3 stations vs. 4000 on the whole globe? The whole globe? A little bit of it? Some of it? Alot of it? None of it? I can't tell, can you? How different did the graph look with it corrected vs. incorrect. And exactly which graph of what data are we talking about? Published, not published, internal for modeling experiments, what's it for? Without quantification of some sort, there are no conclusions to be made.
| 149 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:40:27pm |
re: #91 Guanxi88
No, I think we're conducting this as an exercise, exploration, and demonstration of the phenomenon in question.
Left and Right are radicalized, and claim they are going this way in reaction to the prior radicalization of the other side. There's no way OUT of this, except to go through it, seems to me.
well if the powers that be would recognize this fact it could be avoided... see you on the other side.
| 150 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:40:37pm |
re: #56 Walter L. Newton
Thank you for putting this together, and thank you Charles for hosting it.
| 151 |
sandbox Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:41:12pm |
re: #132 Dark_Falcon
right. I consider her selection as VP running mate by McCain as an error. In many people's minds she failed the elemental test of VP--that she could take over if the Pres. is sick or passes away. By contrast, Biden met that elemental test--whatever his other failings. I say this as Republican who voted for McCain.
| 152 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:41:21pm |
re: #145 Dark_Falcon
It is not douchey to point out that LBJ screwed up in truly spectacular fashion in Vietnam. It is simply the correct reading of the facts. Nixon did the bad he could with the hand he was dealt, and the South might have stayed independent had Nixon not ordered the Watergate coverup.
disregard that person...too weird :P :P :P :P
| 153 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:41:28pm |
re: #134 Walter L. Newton
Not this one again.
The comment that says, "; Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!" has already been thoroughly debunked by Tim Lambert:
| 154 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:42:03pm |
re: #17 The Sanity Inspector
On the left and on the right, we hear people claiming to be "beyond" the old categories of left and right, liberal and conservative. These are the beyondists. They are usually liberals running away from the sour smell of liberalism far beyond its sell-by date. And beyondists are sometimes conservatives wanting to distance themselves from the stereotypes of conservatism.
So liberals are running from the failed concept of liberalism, while conservatives are only running from the stereotypes of conservativism. And it's "usually" liberals but only "sometimes" conservatives
/uh huh. which is why the Tea Party is so popular.
idiot.
| 155 |
A Man for all Seasons Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:42:03pm |
re: #126 windsagio
lol I have no idea how to parse that.
Could be one of 2 ways ;)
LOL
Just geek talk.. I work around just thousands of world class geeks from silly cone valley...I know a little about software...Last I checked the top 10 company in the world but Charles can confirm that off-line..
I know talent.. Charles haz mad skilz.. I wish he would work for us...
| 156 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:42:32pm |
re: #145 Dark_Falcon
re: #146 albusteve
Its more that I have been giving Nixon credit, and steve had to indulge in the same ol' bullcrap yelling match thing.
It was a pointless comment meant to attack the 'donks', than relevant at all.
DF, you are correct that the Dems, especially LBJ did a shockingly poor job in Vietnam. The other part, I dunno. I think its pretty clear that the South was pretty much Fucked well before Watergate.
| 157 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:43:14pm |
re: #145 Dark_Falcon
It is not douchey to point out that LBJ screwed up in truly spectacular fashion in Vietnam. It is simply the correct reading of the facts. Nixon did the bad he could with the hand he was dealt, and the South might have stayed independent had Nixon not ordered the Watergate coverup.
How does that theory work?
The one that the South might have stayed independent had Nixon not ordered the coverup?
Did the invasion of the South not happen till the North it saw the US was too bogged down in internal problems to act?
(not being sarcastic, interested)
| 158 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:43:18pm |
re: #148 claire
To what degree did it affect the end results, though? Which data? Temp? Precip? Other? What year/years? What region? How much of the data? 3 stations vs. 4000 on the whole globe? The whole globe? A little bit of it? Some of it? Alot of it? None of it? I can't tell, can you? How different did the graph look with it corrected vs. incorrect. And exactly which graph of what data are we talking about? Published, not published, internal for modeling experiments, what's it for? Without quantification of some sort, there are no conclusions to be made.
Well, since these were the programs used since the 1990's by the CRU, and it wasn't until 2006, when Harris took over the job of maintaining these programs, and from 2006-2009 Harris was finding errors and problems, than I expect that any data produced before 2006 could be suspect.
| 159 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:43:26pm |
re: #142 Obdicut
Oh my god. After all this build up, after all your hyping, all you have is the 'artificial correction' thingy, that'd been debunked for months now?
[Link: www.jgc.org...]
Again:
Your claim was that you could show an error in the code that led to an inaccuracy in the data. You have failed to do so.
Do me a large favor and stay polite to Walter. He's put in a lot of work to support his opinion, disagree if you like, but at least he's giving us lots of points worthy of discussions, so let's debate them nicely.
| 161 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:43:35pm |
re: #101 Walter L. Newton
This is not EMAILS... this is a 314 page narrative by the CRU programer Ian Harris and the notes he made as he went though years and years of live legacy program code and was finding error after error.
This is his diary of the work he did and the problems he found, problems he found with LIVE LEGACY PROGRAMS AND DATA.
Haven't scientists worked with inaccurate data before and refined their calculations as more accurate data became available? Isn't that pretty much how science works?
We have no idea how much skew the inaccurate data may have caused and if it was even enough to be notable.
The fact that there were at one time errors in the data is nothing shocking, surprising, or scandalous.
| 162 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:43:41pm |
re: #147 Walter L. Newton
Yes... and Ian Harris did a good job of finding and fixing errors he found in the programs and the data. He found these errors during the period of 2006-2009.
Unfortunately, the programs that were producing these errors were live legacy programs, use by CRU to do Time Sliced temperature graphs and grids and reports since the 1990's.
He found the problems AFTER THE FACT... starting in 2006.
You're trying to use the programmer's own record of fixing bugs to show that ... there were bugs. And they were fixed.
Hold the presses!
| 164 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:45:01pm |
re: #162 Charles
You're trying to use the programmer's own record of fixing bugs to show that ... there were bugs. And they were fixed.
Hold the presses!
After the programs had been generating data since the late 1990's. I've said that a number of times now, and yet you seem to dismiss it out of hand?
| 165 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:45:28pm |
re: #156 windsagio
re: #146 albusteve
Its more that I have been giving Nixon credit, and steve had to indulge in the same ol' bullcrap yelling match thing.
It was a pointless comment meant to attack the 'donks', than relevant at all.
DF, you are correct that the Dems, especially LBJ did a shockingly poor job in Vietnam. The other part, I dunno. I think its pretty clear that the South was pretty much Fucked well before Watergate.
max tripe....nobody is yelling...why do you make stuff up?....my comment was not pointless with regard to criticism of Nixon
| 166 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:45:30pm |
If tre: #163 Varek Raith
No need for the hostility.
I disagree completely.
Some people need the hostility to masturbate effectively.
| 167 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:45:43pm |
sorry, sorry. I forgot liberal = bad, conservative = good.
And I'm only calling out the "idiot" who made the statement, which was apparently not Sanity Inspector.
| 168 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:46:02pm |
re: #141 jamesfirecat
Ahem...
"The principal thrust of appellant's attack on the Texas statutes is that they improperly invade a right, said to be possessed by the pregnant woman, to choose to terminate her pregnancy. Appellant would discover this right in the concept of personal "liberty" embodied in the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause; or in personal, marital, familial, and sexual privacy said to be protected by the Bill of Rights or its penumbras ... or among those rights reserved to the people by the Ninth Amendment ..."
So tell me again how you can't make a Constitutional case for Abortion? Because I believe our Supreme Court already did!
Do you even have any idea of what those words mean or are you just throwing out talking points... I don't give a rat's ass if you care to kill your children. I am just saying that the issue is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution and by default is a matter of states rights. That is all.
| 169 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:46:04pm |
re: #158 Walter L. Newton
Well, since these were the programs used since the 1990's by the CRU, and it wasn't until 2006, when Harris took over the job of maintaining these programs, and from 2006-2009 Harris was finding errors and problems, than I expect that any data produced before 2006 could be suspect.
Are they generating data or interpreting it? Because the interpreting code can be fixed and all's well.
| 170 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:46:15pm |
re: #157 jamesfirecat
How does that theory work?
The one that the South might have stayed independent had Nixon not ordered the coverup?
Did the invasion of the South not happen till the North it saw the US was too bogged down in internal problems to act?
(not being sarcastic, interested)
the theory is that had Nixon's bad actions in Watergate not first hobbled then destroyed his administration, the US could have provided South Vietnam wit the aid and air support it needed to keep the North from invading. Remember, the fall of the South in 1975 came not from a popular uprising but from a crushing blitzkrieg from the North.
| 171 |
Unakite Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:46:31pm |
re: #90 windsagio
There are still some problems;
mainly its one guy bitching (in, remember, a carefully trimmed list of emails, you only see him complaining about the legacy code). Beyond that, there's no evidence that any of the data returning 'apparently incorrect values' was ever published.
In general you're a ton of assumptions short of 'proof'.
It does raise concerns tho'!
Kind of splitting teeny hairs, but the point is, it does raise concerns. I think that is what has been ignored or trivialized.
| 172 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:46:39pm |
re: #159 avanti
I have to disagree with your main point.
He's being deeply dishonest. So deeply he might not even be able to admit it himself.
He can't directly go after AGW, so he's convinced himself that he's found a smoking gun... when he simply hasn't.
Beyond that, he just hasn't lived up to the claim he made for his essay, but he can't even admit that.
Whats the point if he's totally incapable of acting in good faith?
| 173 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:46:41pm |
re: #156 windsagio
re: #146 albusteve
Its more that I have been giving Nixon credit, and steve had to indulge in the same ol' bullcrap yelling match thing.
It was a pointless comment meant to attack the 'donks', than relevant at all.
DF, you are correct that the Dems, especially LBJ did a shockingly poor job in Vietnam. The other part, I dunno. I think its pretty clear that the South was pretty much Fucked well before Watergate.
how so? will you elaborate?...the NVA was shattered by 72
| 174 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:47:10pm |
re: #162 Charles
You're trying to use the programmer's own record of fixing bugs to show that ... there were bugs. And they were fixed.
Hold the presses!
I get Walter's point that those errors were discovered and fixed later. How does that effect the earlier data, and how does it differ, if it does from the other data sets ?
| 175 |
akarra Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:47:21pm |
Read the preview for the "Wingnuts" book - the prose is lively, and it feels like he moves quickly through that Oath Keepers conference and the attendant insanity but he makes sure it hits hard: that note about the beginning of the American Revolution and Oklahoma City can't just be shrugged off.
Thank you for sharing - I'll definitely read more later.
| 176 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:47:22pm |
re: #167 Vambo
Errr, no. I'm neither a liberal nor a conservative. The 'idiot' remark was why I downdinged ya. If that insult wasn't meant for him, then you should've been clearer.
:)
| 177 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:47:34pm |
re: #164 Walter L. Newton
After the programs had been generating data since the late 1990's. I've said that a number of times now, and yet you seem to dismiss it out of hand?
Walter, believe me -- if you had shown a serious problem with the code that unarguably produced bad data, and if you had showed that this data was used in the real world and misled people as a result, I was totally ready to feature your piece on the front page.
But you didn't do that, sorry.
| 178 |
keloyd Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:47:38pm |
re: #112 Guanxi88
I still don't think a certain Mormon can ever get past the Republican primaries, and I like Romney.
The odd thing is we've moved backwards wrt religious tolerance. In ages past, we had 4 Unitarians (the two Johns Adams, Filmore, and Taft). They're very much at the fringe of Christendom. Lincoln was solidly agnostic at a time when Catholics were not allowed in the abolitionist movement because they were 'slaves of the pope.'
A Catholic candidate today would have the added burden of the Church telling parishioners not to vote for him since he won't be totally pro-life, and thus a proper Catholic - and when I say pro-life I mean even 12 year olds, fetal stem cells, and rape victims. This does not seem to be nearly the issue for Catholic pols in Europe for some reason.
| 179 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:48:01pm |
re: #161 Conservative Moonbat
Haven't scientists worked with inaccurate data before and refined their calculations as more accurate data became available? Isn't that pretty much how science works?
We have no idea how much skew the inaccurate data may have caused and if it was even enough to be notable.
The fact that there were at one time errors in the data is nothing shocking, surprising, or scandalous.
There is good climate science going on, there are good datasets to work with... but it's my opinion, and apparently Ian Harris' opinion that CRU was not producing a lot of good data.
| 180 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:48:04pm |
I might fall a bit behind for a bit, my desk just broke.
| 181 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:48:11pm |
re: #167 Vambo
sorry, sorry. I forgot liberal = bad, conservative = good.
And I'm only calling out the "idiot" who made the statement, which was apparently not Sanity Inspector.
Were it not for the bolded part of your post, I'd have had no problem with it. As it is, you couldn't even apologize without hurling a insult. Shnook.
| 182 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:48:30pm |
re: #168 brookly red
Do you even have any idea of what those words mean or are you just throwing out talking points... I don't give a rat's ass if you care to kill your children. I am just saying that the issue is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution and by default is a matter of states rights. That is all.
Okay then if you want to be a strict constructionist, you can be a strict constructionist.
| 183 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:48:38pm |
Walter? Thanks for the time you put into this... and I was able to read it. Didn't understand it all, but grabbed the gist.
Charles? What a great site this is. Thanks for the work you do.
Everybody? Be excellent to each other.
| 184 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:48:54pm |
| 185 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:49:23pm |
re: #169 cliffster
Are they generating data or interpreting it? Because the interpreting code can be fixed and all's well.
They were processing and putting out bad data...
“I am very sorry to report that the rest of the databases seem to be in nearly as poor a state as Australia was. There are hundreds if not thousands of pairs of dummy stations, one with no WMO and one with, usually overlapping and with the same station name and very similar coordinates. I know it could be old and new stations, but why such large overlaps if that's the case? Aarrggghhh!”
| 186 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:49:23pm |
re: #172 windsagio
Don't you dare call Walter dishonest. He may be wrong, but he is always an honest man.
| 187 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:49:36pm |
re: #167 Vambo
sorry, sorry. I forgot liberal = bad, conservative = good.
downding for this too? Is this not the philosophy around here? You can admit it.
| 188 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:49:43pm |
re: #170 Dark_Falcon
the theory is that had Nixon's bad actions in Watergate not first hobbled then destroyed his administration, the US could have provided South Vietnam wit the aid and air support it needed to keep the North from invading. Remember, the fall of the South in 1975 came not from a popular uprising but from a crushing blitzkrieg from the North.
I think the issue has to also be "would he have..." I mean Nixon probably won his second election by such a Landslide because he had gotten us out of the war, (rather than because he tapped the other sides phones ;) ) would he have been willing to send America back into that meat grinder, even as a Lame Duck President?
| 189 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:49:56pm |
re: #164 Walter L. Newton
Walter - thank you for your time and effort in this endeavor!
Clearly this took you many hours to comb through the material and provide a summary. From what I gather (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the data that was used prior to 2006 is potentially inaccurate - and to compare that with more recent data will give inaccurate results.
Yes?
| 190 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:50:02pm |
re: #184 albusteve
don't worry fixed! A screw fell out, but I got it back in :P
| 191 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:50:21pm |
re: #172 windsagio
I have to disagree with your main point.
He's being deeply dishonest. So deeply he might not even be able to admit it himself.
He can't directly go after AGW, so he's convinced himself that he's found a smoking gun... when he simply hasn't.
Beyond that, he just hasn't lived up to the claim he made for his essay, but he can't even admit that.
Whats the point if he's totally incapable of acting in good faith?
As long as Charles leave the post up, then we can let the Lizards decide for themselves.
| 192 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:50:35pm |
re: #186 Dark_Falcon
Don't you dare call Walter dishonest. He may be wrong, but he is always an honest man.
there you have it bro....some people blurt out the most crude shit
| 193 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:50:40pm |
re: #181 Dark_Falcon
Were it not for the bolded part of your post, I'd have had no problem with it. As it is, you couldn't even apologize without hurling a insult. Shnook.
That's an insult? I thought you guys would agree with me.
| 194 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:50:48pm |
re: #172 windsagio
I have to disagree with your main point.
He's being deeply dishonest. So deeply he might not even be able to admit it himself.
He can't directly go after AGW, so he's convinced himself that he's found a smoking gun... when he simply hasn't.
Beyond that, he just hasn't lived up to the claim he made for his essay, but he can't even admit that.
Whats the point if he's totally incapable of acting in good faith?
That's a hell of a leap. I can't know what is in Walter's head, but he has said many times that he is not a critic of AGW, just questions the one data set.
| 195 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:51:02pm |
re: #187 Vambo
You know, just go away. It's is most certainly not my, nor many others, philosophy.
| 196 |
wiffersnapper Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:51:16pm |
Hot Air hate comments about said book in 5....4....3....2....
| 197 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:51:22pm |
re: #134 Walter L. Newton
For the code jockey's out there... an example of massaging the data to force an outcome.
;
; Now prepare for plotting
;
loadct,39
multi_plot,nrow=3,layout='caption'
if !d.name eq 'X' then begin
window,ysize=800
!p.font=-1
endif else begin
!p.font=0
device,/helvetica,/bold,font_size=18
endelse
def_1color,20,color='red'
def_1color,21,color='blue'
def_1color,22,color='black'
;
restore,'compbest_fixed1950.idlsave'
;
plot,timey,comptemp(*,3),/nodata,$
/xstyle,xrange=[1881,1994],xtitle='Year',$
/ystyle,yrange=[-3,3],ytitle='Normalised anomalies',$
; title='Northern Hemisphere temperatures, MXD and corrected MXD'
title='Northern Hemisphere temperatures and MXD reconstruction'
;
yyy=reform(comptemp(*,2))
;mknormal,yyy,timey,refperiod=[1881,1940]
filter_cru,5.,/nan,tsin=yyy,tslow=tslow
oplot,timey,tslow,thick=5,color=22
yyy=reform(compmxd(*,2,1))
;mknormal,yyy,timey,refperiod=[1881,1940]
;
; Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!
;
yrloc=[1400,findgen(19)*5.+1904]
valadj=[0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,-0.1,-0.25,-0.3,0.,-0.1,0.3 ,0.8,1.2,1.7,2.5,2.6,2.6,$
2.6,2.6,2.6]*0.75 ; fudge factor
if n_elements(yrloc) ne n_elements(valadj) then message,'Oooops!'
;
yearlyadj=interpol(valadj,yrloc,timey)
;
;filter_cru,5.,/nan,tsin=yyy+yearlyadj,tslow=t slow
;oplot,timey,tslow,thick=5,color=20
;
filter_cru,5.,/nan,tsin=yyy,tslow=tslow
oplot,timey,tslow,thick=5,color=21
;
oplot,!x.crange,[0.,0.],linestyle=1
;
plot,[0,1],/nodata,xstyle=4,ystyle=4
;legend,['Northern Hemisphere April-September instrumental temperature',$
; 'Northern Hemisphere MXD',$
; 'Northern Hemisphere MXD corrected for decline'],$
; colors=[22,21,20],thick=[3,3,3],margin=0.6,spacing =1.5
legend,['Northern Hemisphere April-September instrumental temperature',$
'Northern Hemisphere MXD'],$
colors=[22,21],thick=[3,3],margin=0.6,spacing=1.5
;
end
That one again? Charles already posted that, or someone did anyway and it was completely debunked as being used for actual code for a useable product, hence the, Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!
Your just digging yourself a hole Walter...
| 198 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:51:26pm |
re: #170 Dark_Falcon
the theory is that had Nixon's bad actions in Watergate not first hobbled then destroyed his administration, the US could have provided South Vietnam wit the aid and air support it needed to keep the North from invading. Remember, the fall of the South in 1975 came not from a popular uprising but from a crushing blitzkrieg from the North.
Quite similar to how the Blue Dress incident hobbled Clinton's ability to adequately deal with Saddam Hussein.
| 199 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:51:27pm |
re: #186 Dark_Falcon
don't you dare 'don't you dare' me :p
| 200 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:51:28pm |
re: #159 avanti
Do me a large favor and stay polite to Walter. He's put in a lot of work to support his opinion, disagree if you like, but at least he's giving us lots of points worthy of discussions, so let's debate them nicely.
Work is not the same thing as expertise.
| 201 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:51:51pm |
re: #142 Obdicut
Oh my god. After all this build up, after all your hyping, all you have is the 'artificial correction' thingy, that'd been debunked for months now?
[Link: www.jgc.org...]
Again:
Your claim was that you could show an error in the code that led to an inaccuracy in the data. You have failed to do so.
I'm not getting into a flame war with you, or anyone.
| 202 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:52:08pm |
re: #194 avanti
That's a hell of a leap. I can't know what is in Walter's head, but he has said many times that he is not a critic of AGW, just questions the one data set.
yes it is a leap and a disgusting one...I have zero use for that shit
| 203 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:52:08pm |
m going to put on the troll from last night. Charcoal is lit, roast will be ready in 30 minutes.
| 204 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:52:15pm |
re: #182 jamesfirecat
Okay then if you want to be a strict constructionist, you can be a strict constructionist.
Thank you Sir! (Mam?) that is all I am a strict Constructionist. I got no problem with you, just semantics of the law. This buds for you!
| 205 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:52:39pm |
re: #203 Dark_Falcon
m going to put on the troll from last night. Charcoal is lit, roast will be ready in 30 minutes.
I missed a troll???
:(
| 206 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:53:27pm |
re: #186 Dark_Falcon
He made the claim that he could show an actual inaccuracy in the data based on flaws in the code. He's failed to do so. He's failed to admit it, either. He just posted one of the first 'inaccurate code' things to be debunked.
He's deviated very far from his original claim of what he was going to do, and I haven't seen anything that's even new in what he presented. There isn't even a new claim.
Almost everything he's posting has to do with data before it comes into CRU, not CRU's interpretation of the data.
I'm not going to call it dishonest, but I am going to say it utterly failed to do what he claimed he could do, and talked about doing for days.
| 207 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:53:55pm |
re: #204 brookly red
Thank you Sir! (Mam?) that is all I am a strict Constructionist. I got no problem with you, just semantics of the law. This buds for you!
heh...like it's an insult...doofus
| 208 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:54:02pm |
re: #172 windsagio
I have to disagree with your main point.
He's being deeply dishonest. So deeply he might not even be able to admit it himself.
He can't directly go after AGW, so he's convinced himself that he's found a smoking gun... when he simply hasn't.
Beyond that, he just hasn't lived up to the claim he made for his essay, but he can't even admit that.
Whats the point if he's totally incapable of acting in good faith?
I'm done talking to Obdicut, and now you. Both of you have gone to snark, and that was not the purpose of my posting this. If you want to snark, email me and say what you want.
| 209 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:54:04pm |
re: #201 Walter L. Newton
I'm not getting into a flame war with you, or anyone.
He's not flaming you, man!
| 210 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:54:14pm |
re: #159 avanti
Do me a large favor and stay polite to Walter. He's put in a lot of work to support his opinion, disagree if you like, but at least he's giving us lots of points worthy of discussions, so let's debate them nicely.
AVANTI
I'm late to the "party", and we've had our disagreements ,, but unlimited UPDINGS for #159
| 211 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:54:15pm |
re: #191 Walter L. Newton
I didn't report it, nor did I ask for it to be pulled down.
The thing is, I think that's where we're at.
You're so busy doing anything to raise doubts about the AGW data. You do it voraciously every time it comes up on the blog. Beyond that, when any 'scandal' or problem comes up, you like to go on about how this is a serious blow.
You had your big, carefully prepared shot, and unfortunately, it was just more of the same. In the end, a spade really is just a spade.
| 212 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:54:23pm |
Is this the part where the stalker blog thinks I'm supposed to ban Walter?
Get off my blog, Walter!
/I kid
| 213 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:54:35pm |
re: #198 Racer X
Quite similar to how the Blue Dress incident hobbled Clinton's ability to adequately deal with Saddam Hussein.
Just so. A very good comparison, Racer.
| 214 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:54:37pm |
re: #179 Walter L. Newton
There is good climate science going on, there are good datasets to work with... but it's my opinion, and apparently Ian Harris' opinion that CRU was not producing a lot of good data.
But how do you fine "good data?" by it's correlation to empirical fact? How much skew is allowed for it to still be good data? I doubt any of the current data is 100% accurate either simply because it relies on man-made apparatus to be ascertained, and that's without going into issues of code quality and the like.
| 215 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:55:20pm |
re: #177 Charles
Walter, believe me -- if you had shown a serious problem with the code that unarguably produced bad data, and if you had showed that this data was used in the real world and misled people as a result, I was totally ready to feature your piece on the front page.
But you didn't do that, sorry.
Hell yes, that would have made the Bush National Guard story into chump change. I agree, the question still hanging out there is not if there were problems in the data set, there clearly were, but were there errors that made any difference in the real world.
| 216 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:55:24pm |
re: #204 brookly red
Thank you Sir! (Mam?) that is all I am a strict Constructionist. I got no problem with you, just semantics of the law. This buds for you!
It is sir.
If we manage to at some point throw on an Amendment to the constitution to make abortion legal would that settle your problems on the issue?
(Not sarcastic)
| 217 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:55:36pm |
re: #208 Walter L. Newton
It's not snark, Walter. I'm pointing out that you've made a claim, failed to back it up, and aren't taking responsibility for it. It's a lot more direct than snark.
Can you explain your rational behind posting the 'artificial correction' code? Did you not do the research and see that that'd been debunked already?
| 218 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:55:41pm |
re: #206 Obdicut
He made the claim that he could show an actual inaccuracy in the data based on flaws in the code. He's failed to do so. He's failed to admit it, either. He just posted one of the first 'inaccurate code' things to be debunked.
He's deviated very far from his original claim of what he was going to do, and I haven't seen anything that's even new in what he presented. There isn't even a new claim.
Almost everything he's posting has to do with data before it comes into CRU, not CRU's interpretation of the data.
I'm not going to call it dishonest, but I am going to say it utterly failed to do what he claimed he could do, and talked about doing for days.
Ian Harris...
“This still meant an awful lot of encounters with naughty Master stations, when really I suspect nobody else gives a hoot about. So with a somewhat cynical shrug, I added the nuclear option - to match every WMO possible, and turn the rest into new stations (er, CLIMAT excepted). In other words, what CRU usually do. It will allow bad databases to pass unnoticed, and good databases to become bad, but I really don't think people care enough to fix 'em, and it's the main reason the project is nearly a year late.”
| 219 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:55:45pm |
re: #185 Walter L. Newton
I don't know about the context of your quote, but I will agree with you that if the data itself is faulty, then the comments about "programmers find bugs and they fix them" doesn't do anything for the fact that the data is, in fact, bad. Again, I don't see from your snippets whether it was bad data being generated, or data being interpreted badly. You're saying it was generated badly; perhaps that's the case.
| 220 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:55:49pm |
Boy, I tell you what:
For solid American vices, nothing beats a cup of black coffee and a pipe full of Prince Albert. Damn, but that's a good combo - better even than a filterless Lucky Strike with coffee.
| 221 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:55:54pm |
re: #208 Walter L. Newton
I'm hugely surprised that you'd want to disengage at this point.
Hows this tho'... Admit that your essay totally failed to do what you claimed it would, that you didn't meet your original claim, and we can all play nice again.
| 222 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:56:07pm |
re: #205 Varek Raith
I missed a troll???
:(
The troll was clubbed last night. Sadly, I was out of charcoal, so I put the troll in the freezer until tonight.
| 223 |
A Man for all Seasons Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:56:11pm |
Scientists are creating and employing complex Climate model software every day...We need to invest in this big time...They need the best tools available.
Now...
In the 80's I was playing Atari 2600 baseball with my friends..Computers were crude then..Don't be going back to the 80's and nitpicking data..That doesn't fly...
The year is 2010....
| 224 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:56:41pm |
re: #222 Dark_Falcon
The troll was clubbed last night. Sadly, I was out of charcoal, so I put the troll in the freezer until tonight.
Ooh! Nothing like letting the meat age a bit - enzymes and such soften up the flesh and contribute their own flavors.
| 225 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:57:10pm |
re: #206 Obdicut
He made the claim that he could show an actual inaccuracy in the data based on flaws in the code. He's failed to do so. He's failed to admit it, either. He just posted one of the first 'inaccurate code' things to be debunked.
He's deviated very far from his original claim of what he was going to do, and I haven't seen anything that's even new in what he presented. There isn't even a new claim.
Almost everything he's posting has to do with data before it comes into CRU, not CRU's interpretation of the data.
I'm not going to call it dishonest, but I am going to say it utterly failed to do what he claimed he could do, and talked about doing for days.
That's the point though, right? If the data is bad, then the reliability of any subsequent massaging is subjective at best.
| 226 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:57:13pm |
re: #217 Obdicut
you've made a claim, failed to back it up, and aren't taking responsibility for it
And reading through the thread he believes he DID "back up" his claim. So where does that leave us?
Seems as it's the same place we started!
| 227 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:57:14pm |
re: #211 windsagio
I didn't report it, nor did I ask for it to be pulled down.
The thing is, I think that's where we're at.
You're so busy doing anything to raise doubts about the AGW data. You do it voraciously every time it comes up on the blog. Beyond that, when any 'scandal' or problem comes up, you like to go on about how this is a serious blow.
You had your big, carefully prepared shot, and unfortunately, it was just more of the same. In the end, a spade really is just a spade.
if Walter is a liar, you are a liar....that was a low blow
| 228 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:58:17pm |
re: #205 Varek Raith
I missed a troll???
:(
/your over fishing has caused a depletion in the stock and is seriously in danger of causing a global crisis ... your self centered consumption of trolls will singled handedly result in the end of life on the planet. I hope your happy now.
| 229 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:58:25pm |
Woo hoo! Looks like the claws and fangs are coming out!
| 230 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:58:49pm |
re: #227 albusteve
if Walter is a liar, you are a liar...that was a low blow
Trying to figure out how that could possibly work...
| 231 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:58:57pm |
re: #212 Charles
Is this the part where the stalker blog thinks I'm supposed to ban Walter?
Get off my blog, Walter!
/I kid
And on a side note. I have not seen or communicated with anyone, stalker or other non Lizard, off this blog. I had four active Lizards review this essay for content and readability, but other than that, it's just me and you kid.
And I didn't expect you to ban me or delete the post.
| 232 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:59:02pm |
IMHO - I think Walter did what he set out to do. He showed there was more usage of inaccurate data than previously believed.
Did it affect the bottom line when it comes to AGW? I dunno.
| 233 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:59:04pm |
re: #225 cliffster
The point is that Walter made the claim that he could show problems in the code that resulted in inaccuracies in the data. Not problems with the datasets. His claim was that he'd show buggy code producing inaccuracies.
Obviously some of the datasets are whahooney-- that's why it's a good thing we've got so damn many different types to check against each other.
| 234 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:59:05pm |
re: #228 brookly red
/your over fishing has caused a depletion in the stock and is seriously in danger of causing a global crisis ... your self centered consumption of trolls will singled handedly result in the end of life on the planet. I hope your happy now.
But there's still at least 8 or 10 breeding pair kept in captivity. We can replenish stocks in short order.
| 235 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:59:12pm |
| 236 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:59:53pm |
re: #221 windsagio
I'm hugely surprised that you'd want to disengage at this point.
Hows this tho'... Admit that your essay totally failed to do what you claimed it would, that you didn't meet your original claim, and we can all play nice again.
“This still meant an awful lot of encounters with naughty Master stations, when really I suspect nobody else gives a hoot about. So with a somewhat cynical shrug, I added the nuclear option - to match every WMO possible, and turn the rest into new stations (er, CLIMAT excepted). In other words, what CRU usually do. It will allow bad databases to pass unnoticed, and good databases to become bad, but I really don't think people care enough to fix 'em, and it's the main reason the project is nearly a year late.”
| 237 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:59:57pm |
By the way, Walter, even though I don't think you proved your case, I want to thank you for putting that together and following through. I did learn some things by reading it.
| 238 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 5:59:59pm |
re: #229 Guanxi88
there are 2 things that'll seriously piss me off on here.
The first is someone who doesn't know what the FUCK they're talking about going off about MRDD issues, and especially autism.
The second is people posting on this blog in bad faith.
| 239 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:00:01pm |
re: #221 windsagio
I'm hugely surprised that you'd want to disengage at this point.
Hows this tho'... Admit that your essay totally failed to do what you claimed it would, that you didn't meet your original claim, and we can all play nice again.
see 226
(and btw ,,, the patronizing "and we can all play nice again" ,,,,, doesn't sit well!)
| 240 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:00:27pm |
re: #225 cliffster
That's the point though, right? If the data is bad, then the reliability of any subsequent massaging is subjective at best.
“This still meant an awful lot of encounters with naughty Master stations, when really I suspect nobody else gives a hoot about. So with a somewhat cynical shrug, I added the nuclear option - to match every WMO possible, and turn the rest into new stations (er, CLIMAT excepted). In other words, what CRU usually do. It will allow bad databases to pass unnoticed, and good databases to become bad, but I really don't think people care enough to fix 'em, and it's the main reason the project is nearly a year late.”
| 241 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:00:28pm |
re: #234 Guanxi88
But there's still at least 8 or 10 breeding pair kept in captivity. We can replenish stocks in short order.
I hope to never see the day we're reduced to tofuroll.
| 242 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:00:43pm |
re: #233 Obdicut
The point is that Walter made the claim that he could show problems in the code that resulted in inaccuracies in the data. Not problems with the datasets. His claim was that he'd show buggy code producing inaccuracies.
Obviously some of the datasets are whahooney-- that's why it's a good thing we've got so damn many different types to check against each other.
Can you explain that?
| 243 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:00:50pm |
re: #237 Charles
By the way, Walter, even though I don't think you proved your case, I want to thank you for putting that together and following through. I did learn some things by reading it.
And I learned some thing too. You welcome.
| 244 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:00:53pm |
re: #234 Guanxi88
But there's still at least 8 or 10 breeding pair kept in captivity. We can replenish stocks in short order.
Trolls can only breed if they figure out that's its important to get out of their parents' basement. :D
| 245 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:01:23pm |
re: #212 Charles
Is this the part where the stalker blog thinks I'm supposed to ban Walter?
Get off my blog, Walter!
/I kid
They were told to cut and paste Walter's posts before the evil overlord deleted them./
| 246 |
A Man for all Seasons Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:01:26pm |
re: #237 Charles
By the way, Walter, even though I don't think you proved your case, I want to thank you for putting that together and following through. I did learn some things by reading it.
You actually read all that crap?
*wink*
| 247 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:01:32pm |
re: #118 avanti
I don't see winners and losers. I see Walter did a lot of work to generate a discussion of the issues. No matter which side of the discussion you are on, it's not about winning and losing, it's about looking at both sides.
I don't think we can prove that the data was perfect or flawed, but we can see the struggle involved in gathering it. I'd be more interested in seeing how the data set in question differs from the others to show accuracy.
Repeated, for the acknowledgment of Walter's hard work.
| 248 |
Bear Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:01:41pm |
Walter, thank you for all the work you have done.
| 249 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:01:54pm |
re: #238 windsagio
there are 2 things that'll seriously piss me off on here.
The first is someone who doesn't know what the FUCK they're talking about going off about MRDD issues, and especially autism.
The second is people posting on this blog in bad faith.
Me, too. My #1 Son, soon to be 4, is still uncommunicative - but a good and sweet and bright boy. Yours truly? I was sent in for a diagnosis contemporaneously with #1 son - given the history of these peculiarities in my family, the MD's thought it best. Yep, I'm there with my boy.
And as for bad faith postings, eh, it happens everywhere, but rarely here.
| 250 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:02:00pm |
| 251 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:02:09pm |
re: #240 Walter L. Newton
Walter, are you going to explain how you think those bolded sentences prove what you claimed-- that you could show that problematic code produced inaccurate results?
I'm not sure why you keep bolding that over and over.
| 253 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:02:16pm |
BBIAM - have to fill the pellet stove with 40 pounds of wood chips.
| 254 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:02:29pm |
re: #230 windsagio
Trying to figure out how that could possibly work...
I'll bet...if you added a tenth to any thread that Walters does, someone might notice...mostly your an opportunistic shark, more interested in piling on, hitching onto other peoples criticism....why don't you answer my question upthread about the NVA/RSVN?....too busy following Walters critics around?
| 255 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:03:00pm |
re: #244 Dark_Falcon
Trolls can only breed if they figure out that's its important to get out of their parents' basement. :D
I thought they bred via mutual exchange of teh crazy; this doesn't require physical interaction, and is in fact facilitated if they DON'T meet their breeding partner.
| 256 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:03:09pm |
re: #40 jamesfirecat
I'd argue (proving your point that both sides want to point fingers) that I feel the left isn't quite as radical as the right, as the Code Pink/Communists don't have their own major news network cheering them on the way the Tea Party people have Faux News...
This is a good point, and Air America went kaputz recently too.
| 257 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:03:13pm |
| 258 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:03:23pm |
re: #228 brookly red
/your over fishing has caused a depletion in the stock and is seriously in danger of causing a global crisis ... your self centered consumption of trolls will singled handedly result in the end of life on the planet. I hope your happy now.
Yes, need moar troll meat....
Nom nom nom!
| 259 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:03:43pm |
re: #246 HoosierHoops
You actually read all that crap?
*wink*
Just like back in school ,,, I'll wait till the Cliff Notes version is available ,,, then, when I don';t even undrstand THAT, pay some smart kid to write my paper for me in exchange of letting him hang out with the hockey team for a week!
| 260 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:03:50pm |
re: #233 Obdicut
The point is that Walter made the claim that he could show problems in the code that resulted in inaccuracies in the data. Not problems with the datasets. His claim was that he'd show buggy code producing inaccuracies.
Obviously some of the datasets are whahooney-- that's why it's a good thing we've got so damn many different types to check against each other.
you are becoming redundant to the point of real boredom...you've said this several times
| 261 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:04:02pm |
re: #249 Guanxi88
My condolances, its a tough thing to deal with.
I sometimes wonder if its worse for the parents (who often feel guilty), or for the siblings (who often have to deal with some pretty difficult behavior).
| 262 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:04:07pm |
re: #216 jamesfirecat
It is sir.
If we manage to at some point throw on an Amendment to the constitution to make abortion legal would that settle your problems on the issue?
(Not sarcastic)
Keep your freakin hands of my Constitution ... you don't seem to get it. I got no problem with abortion, my problem is abortion on a federal level... not in the Constitution. Just ain't there... if your state says it OK, no problem, abort away!
| 263 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:04:32pm |
re: #255 Guanxi88
I thought they bred via mutual exchange of teh crazy; this doesn't require physical interaction, and is in fact facilitated if they DON'T meet their breeding partner.
LOL! Loves it.
| 264 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:04:41pm |
CHARLES
Thanks for giving Walter (and the rest of us) this forum to hash things like this out
| 265 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:05:05pm |
re: #238 windsagio
there are 2 things that'll seriously piss me off on here.
The first is someone who doesn't know what the FUCK they're talking about going off about MRDD issues, and especially autism.
The second is people posting on this blog in bad faith.
You accused Walter of posting in bad faith.
1. Walter clearly knows what he is talking about.
2. I have never seen Walter post ANYTHING in bad faith.
Love him or hate him - he is always straight up.
| 266 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:05:14pm |
re: #242 cliffster
I'm not sure what to say. Walter made the claim that he'd show errors in the code that produced inaccurate results. He hasn't done so. That some of the datasets-- some of the instrument records-- were problematic or in error everyone knew already. Walter's claim was about the code at CRU producing inaccuracies through bugginess-- which he's done nothing to prove.
re: #260 albusteve
Why do you think that is, Steve?
| 267 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:05:31pm |
re: #258 Varek Raith
Yes, need moar troll meat...
Nom nom nom!
All we have to do is open registration, let in a few trolls and then catch and grill 'em.
/kidding
| 268 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:05:45pm |
re: #256 eclectic infidel
This is a good point, and Air America went kaputz recently too.
not to mention the fact that most people haven't even heard Air America!! I couldn't even find it on the radio. I don't know the numbers, but I'd imagine their audience was measly compared to Fox News --- in the South, I've heard that you can get Fox News without having cable. Murdoch, what a businessman - kind of like Rockefeller, and just as evil too.
| 269 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:05:55pm |
Walter, while I disagree with your conclusion, I fully thank and appreciate the work you put into your essay.
*raises coffee mug*
| 270 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:06:11pm |
re: #251 Obdicut
Walter, are you going to explain how you think those bolded sentences prove what you claimed-- that you could show that problematic code produced inaccurate results?
I'm not sure why you keep bolding that over and over.
I think that's it in a nutshell now. How do we find out if the one data set was flawed in the end, and if so, does it change the total picture.
| 271 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:06:49pm |
re: #266 Obdicut
Well, ok. You said, "the problem is with the data, not the datasets" Or maybe vice versa. I don't really understand what you are thinking is the difference.
| 272 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:06:57pm |
re: #183 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Walter? Thanks for the time you put into this... and I was able to read it. Didn't understand it all, but grabbed the gist.
Charles? What a great site this is. Thanks for the work you do.
Everybody? Be excellent to each other.
I know I'm just repeating other posts.
But, I believe they bear repeating.
Mostly they're regarding civility.
True Lizards are civil.
| 273 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:07:06pm |
re: #256 eclectic infidel
This is a good point, and Air America went kaputz recently too.
Plus I don't really think that Air America can be considered the equal of Fox, in either size of shape.
Granted I haven't done that much watching of MSNBC, but do they com out in favor of Code Pink crazies?
| 274 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:07:16pm |
re: #261 windsagio
My condolances, its a tough thing to deal with.
I sometimes wonder if its worse for the parents (who often feel guilty), or for the siblings (who often have to deal with some pretty difficult behavior).
Parent, I'd say. #1 & #2 daughters don't know there's anything "wrong" with their brother, whereas I, at least, question the wisdom of having children at all, given what I now know about my genetic stock.
Oh, the fights the wife & I had when we got the news about #1 son and me! "You knew your nephews all had problems, you knew you had 'weird' relatives not too far back, and yet....."
I feel worst for the parent who isn't a likely carrier; they feel absolutely helpless. Me, I've got some vague idea at least of what our son's going through - having endured a version of it myself. But the idea that your brain isn't properly coordinated with the world around you is more ore less incomprehensible, I guess, to those who don't know what it's like.
| 275 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:07:43pm |
re: #262 brookly red
Keep your freakin hands of my Constitution ... you don't seem to get it. I got no problem with abortion, my problem is abortion on a federal level... not in the Constitution. Just ain't there... if your state says it OK, no problem, abort away!
Do you have a problem with the idea that the Congress can add amendments to the constitution?
| 276 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:07:58pm |
re: #254 albusteve
I really really really really hate Windie, and try to pick a fight every time I see 'em.
Fixt.
| 277 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:07:58pm |
re: #265 Racer X
You accused Walter of posting in bad faith.
1. Walter clearly knows what he is talking about.
2. I have never seen Walter post ANYTHING in bad faith.Love him or hate him - he is always straight up.
I friggin hate him, he's often been in pain in my ass, but I'll defend him as a honest man to the end. /
| 278 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:08:14pm |
Let's take a look at what a weather station is:
according to wikipedia
# Thermometer for measuring temperature
# Barometer for measuring barometric pressure/air pressure
# Hygrometer for measuring humidity
# Anemometer for measuring wind speed
# Wind vane for measuring wind direction
# Rain gauge for measuring precipitation
Here's a nice pic of what I suspect to be a fairly modern one
Image: Weather_Station_USDA.jpg
Now hundreds of thousands of these things are just stuck out in the middle of nowhere all over the world. I bet a significant number of them have calibration problems at any point in time which causes them to produce BAD DATA.
The computer databases and code used to compile them are not the only potential point of failure when it come to gathering climate information. The instruments themselves most likely fail on a regular basis.
OH NO!!! WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO??
Most likely we are going to write software algorithms which account for abnormalities in the data and correct them. I see no reason why there can't be self-correcting code for other kinds of errors as well.
| 280 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:08:55pm |
re: #265 Racer X
I've said it a few times, and I'll say it again. He's concern-trolling.
In fairness, he might not see what he's doing himself, but its pretty clear.
| 281 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:09:09pm |
re: #266 Obdicut
I'm not sure what to say. Walter made the claim that he'd show errors in the code that produced inaccurate results. He hasn't done so. That some of the datasets-- some of the instrument records-- were problematic or in error everyone knew already. Walter's claim was about the code at CRU producing inaccuracies through bugginess-- which he's done nothing to prove.
re: #260 albusteve
Why do you think that is, Steve?
when someone needs to express their point of view over and over I just quit listening...it becomes so much blather, noise
| 282 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:09:16pm |
re: #273 jamesfirecat
Plus I don't really think that Air America can be considered the equal of Fox, in either size of shape.
Granted I haven't done that much watching of MSNBC, but do they com out in favor of Code Pink crazies?
MSNBC is really not that liberal, except for Olbermann and Maddow. I don't remember anything about Code Pink, but I didn't really watch them during the first 5 or 6 years of Bush's term.
| 283 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:09:40pm |
re: #275 jamesfirecat
Do you have a problem with the idea that the Congress can add amendments to the constitution?
No, it can't.
| 285 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:09:48pm |
re: #275 jamesfirecat
Do you have a problem with the idea that the Congress can add amendments to the constitution?
well you go ahead and try it, and show some fucking respect and use a cap C in Constitution, OK?
| 286 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:09:50pm |
re: #268 Vambo
not to mention the fact that most people haven't even heard Air America!! I couldn't even find it on the radio. I don't know the numbers, but I'd imagine their audience was measly compared to Fox News
I did listen a few times when it first kicked off.
My reaction:
1. BORING.
2. Exceptionally so.
3. Whiny
4. Without substance.
| 287 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:10:03pm |
| 288 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:10:14pm |
re: #282 Vambo
MSNBC is really not that liberal, except for Olbermann and Maddow. I don't remember anything about Code Pink, but I didn't really watch them during the first 5 or 6 years of Bush's term.
It's comments like that that make it easy for me to understand why liberals say that Obama is a "center" president.
| 289 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:10:17pm |
re: #275 jamesfirecat
Do you have a problem with the idea that the Congress can add amendments to the constitution?
Wait...what?
| 290 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:10:21pm |
re: #271 cliffster
Data comes in, interpretation of the data goes out. What matters is if the code at CRU interprets the data correctly-- does it mash it all together, average it, adjust for margins of error, perform the various mathematical functions that legitimately perform a statistical analysis on the data.
Here's the RealClimate on it:
[Link: www.realclimate.org...]
Now, it is well known that these data are not perfect. Most records are not as complete as could be wished. Errors periodically creep in and have to be identified and weeded out. But beyond the simple errors of the key-entry type there are inevitably discontinuities or inhomogeneities introduced into the records due to changes in observing practices, station environment, or other non-meteorological factors. It is very unlikely there is any historical record in existence unaffected by this issue.
SNIP
Conclusion: There is no indication whatsoever of any problem with the CRU data. An independent study (by a molecular biologist it Italy, as it happens) came to the same conclusion using a somewhat different analysis. None of this should come as any surprise of course, since any serious errors would have been found and published already.
| 291 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:10:25pm |
re: #270 avanti
I think that's it in a nutshell now. How do we find out if the one data set was flawed in the end, and if so, does it change the total picture.
HOLD THE WEDDIN,,, I don't beleive the point was to show it changed the "total picture".
I've had discussions on here with Walter and he has NEVER denied AGW. Quite the contrary, as soon as a denier pops up here Walter is one of the 1st and foremost to "show him the light" (or more aptly, HEAT)
Don't put up a goal that Walter never stated he was aiming for
| 292 |
A Man for all Seasons Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:10:25pm |
re: #277 avanti
I friggin hate him, he's often been in pain in my ass, but I'll defend him as a honest man to the end. /
LOL
Hi Chief! Good to tease you again.. Has your son released any more music?
I changed laptops and lost his web site.. Could you post again...
Dude your kid is awesome
| 293 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:10:32pm |
First off, it is much easier to read the document when it is in one piece. So, if it helps, download the PDF.
Second. Ian Harris has 314 pages of a three year narrative about his work with the legacy programs at CRU. I summarized some of more important sections of his narrative, but there is much more in his document.
Download this essay in PDF format
Download Ian Harris' 314 pages of programmers notes in PDF format
| 294 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:10:54pm |
re: #224 Guanxi88
Ooh! Nothing like letting the meat age a bit - enzymes and such soften up the flesh and contribute their own flavors.
And, every snarky comment against Walter translates into the Troll meat softener. Whacking away. Should be TENDER Troll tonight. Plus, it was marinated!
| 295 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:11:24pm |
re: #286 eclectic infidel
I did listen a few times when it first kicked off.
My reaction:
1. BORING.
2. Exceptionally so.
3. Whiny
4. Without substance.
I never got to hear it. I liked Maddow when she used to be on Olbermann's show, I'm sick of her now. (I never liked Olbermann)
| 296 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:11:33pm |
re: #266 Obdicut
By analogy, Walter smelled then saw smoke and called out fire. Turns out it was a trash fire. But damn he put in the effort and took his fair shot at showing the data. Didn't work out as he thought. Sounds like something that happens, when investigations happen. I see nothing disingenuous or out of bounds. Walter has my respect for his effort. it's not as bad as he though and said. I can live with that mistake, and respect his future posts as well worth reading.
| 297 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:11:43pm |
re: #284 Racer X
I think you owe Walter an apology.
not likely...they are getting the attention so important to them
| 298 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:12:10pm |
| 299 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:12:25pm |
re: #296 Rightwingconspirator
Walter has my respect for his effort. He'd have more respect from me if he followed his efforts to their logical conclusions, and say that he was unable to prove his claim.
| 300 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:12:26pm |
re: #290 Obdicut
Yes, I understand that. I guess it was with your choice of terms, data vs dataset. As I asked above, it's a question of whether the originally harvested data is bad. And Walter says yes.
| 301 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:12:29pm |
re: #284 Racer X
I tend to disagree :p
All he really needs to do is come halfway and acknowledge that his essay doesn't at all prove what he claimed it did. It is an interesting read, and I got some good info out of it. The conclusions are just unproven bunk.
/really, I should just bail from this thread in general. Taking on a popular member of the tribe simply doesn't do me any good at all.
| 302 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:12:58pm |
| 303 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:13:06pm |
re: #294 Floral Giraffe
And, every snarky comment against Walter translates into the Troll meat softener. Whacking away. Should be TENDER Troll tonight. Plus, it was marinated!
Now, there's some conflict of opinion on the matter. There are at least two schools of thought:
1) The first holds that the panicked reaction of the troll releases stress hormones that makes the meat gamey and unappealing; but
2) Other hold that the longer the chase is kept up, the "cleaner" is the meat, which needs only be dressed and hung a bit to be more than suitable for the table.
It's one of those things - de gustibus non disputandum est.
| 304 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:13:09pm |
| 305 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:13:16pm |
| 306 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:13:27pm |
re: #289 Varek Raith
Wait...what?
I'd asked him if he'd be okay with Federal Abortion if we passed an amendment expressively giving that power to the Federal Government.
He replied.
"Keep your freakin hands of my Constitution ... you don't seem to get it. I got no problem with abortion, my problem is abortion on a federal level... not in the Constitution. Just ain't there... if your state says it OK, no problem, abort away!"
| 307 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:13:31pm |
re: #300 cliffster
The 'harvested' data is known to contain errors, because the world isn't a perfect realm. Please see the RealClimate piece I linked above.
| 308 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:13:35pm |
re: #299 Obdicut
Walter has my respect for his effort. He'd have more respect from me if he followed his efforts to their logical conclusions, and say that he was unable to prove his claim.
I lost track of what his claim was.
| 309 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:13:37pm |
re: #298 jamesfirecat
To Propose Amendments
* Two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote to propose an amendment, or
* Two-thirds of the state legislatures ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments. (This method has never been used.)
To Ratify Amendments
* Three-fourths of the state legislatures approve it, or
* Ratifying conventions in three-fourths of the states approve it. This method has been used only once -- to ratify the 21st Amendment -- repealing Prohibition.
| 310 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:13:50pm |
re: #288 cliffster
It's comments like that that make it easy for me to understand why liberals say that Obama is a "center" president.
It's comments like these that make it easy for me to understand why partisan buffoons like you hate Obama - hint: he is a center president.
| 311 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:14:46pm |
re: #290 Obdicut
Data comes in, interpretation of the data goes out. What matters is if the code at CRU interprets the data correctly-- does it mash it all together, average it, adjust for margins of error, perform the various mathematical functions that legitimately perform a statistical analysis on the data.
Here's the RealClimate on it:
[Link: www.realclimate.org...]
Big difference is a lot of these errors were not identified in the live programs that CRU used until 2006 onward, by Ian Harris. That's a simple fact that Ian Harris documents over and over.
This would be the same as if YOU were hired at some financial firm to maintain some financial programs, programs that were used daily by the company, and you started to find out that the programs were loosing money for the company for years and years.
| 312 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:14:56pm |
re: #288 cliffster
It's comments like that that make it easy for me to understand why liberals say that Obama is a "center" president.
Concur. If you think MSNBC is not liberal, then Brookly has a bridge he'd like to talk to you about buying.
| 313 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:15:02pm |
| 315 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:15:32pm |
re: #298 jamesfirecat
Then who can?
{sigh}
You want to talk about history, the constitution, and last night what the founders had in mind (majority rules) , but have no concept of what they set up or how it works
| 316 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:15:47pm |
re: #312 Dark_Falcon
Concur. If you think MSNBC is not liberal, then Brookly has a bridge he'd like to talk to you about buying.
rent... not buy.
| 317 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:15:49pm |
re: #301 windsagio
I tend to disagree :p
All he really needs to do is come halfway and acknowledge that his essay doesn't at all prove what he claimed it did. It is an interesting read, and I got some good info out of it. The conclusions are just unproven bunk.
/really, I should just bail from this thread in general. Taking on a popular member of the tribe simply doesn't do me any good at all.
calling a poster a liar and a troll for his efforts is a dead end....take a long look at your own style while you are gone....and drop the stupid tribal pretense
| 318 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:15:56pm |
re: #305 albusteve
google it
Says here
[Link: www.usconstitution.net...]
We need a 2/3rds majority vote in both houses of our legislative body, or "congress" like I said. That's what you call the Senate and the house of Representatives put together isn't it?
| 319 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:16:23pm |
re: #310 Vambo
It's comments like these that make it easy for me to understand why partisan buffoons like you hate Obama - hint: he is a center president.
If memory serves, then you are historically an asshole every time I see you posting here. So I'll give you credit for being consistent.
| 320 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:16:38pm |
re: #312 Dark_Falcon
Concur. If you think MSNBC is not liberal, then Brookly has a bridge he'd like to talk to you about buying.
is MSNBC the liberal equivalent to Fox News? I'm so sorry that liberals exist and sometimes get careers as journalists or pundits.
| 321 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:17:00pm |
re: #299 Obdicut
Walter has my respect for his effort. He'd have more respect from me if he followed his efforts to their logical conclusions, and say that he was unable to prove his claim.
re: #301 windsagio
I tend to disagree :p
All he really needs to do is come halfway and acknowledge that his essay doesn't at all prove what he claimed it did. It is an interesting read, and I got some good info out of it. The conclusions are just unproven bunk.
/really, I should just bail from this thread in general. Taking on a popular member of the tribe simply doesn't do me any good at all.
You are saying that Ian Harris conclusions are unproven bunk?
| 322 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:17:05pm |
re: #317 albusteve
calling a poster a liar and a troll for his efforts is a dead end...take a long look at your own style while you are gone...and drop the stupid tribal pretense
they love the labels... it gives them a sense belonging.
| 323 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:17:20pm |
re: #310 Vambo
It's comments like these that make it easy for me to understand why partisan buffoons like you hate Obama - hint: he is a center president.
Center, no. Center-left, probably. Left, possibly. Extreme Left, no. Socialist, no. Commie, most certainly not.
Or some such.
| 324 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:17:20pm |
re: #318 jamesfirecat
Says here
[Link: www.usconstitution.net...]
We need a 2/3rds majority vote in both houses of our legislative body, or "congress" like I said. That's what you call the Senate and the house of Representatives put together isn't it?
I have no comment
| 325 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:17:27pm |
re: #317 albusteve
You know how it is, there's something that like it or not, you think is true.
In general, you keep it down because you know it won't be a popular position, and will get abuse heaped on you... Especially if you're talking about someone else whose a popular person.
The thing is, like it or not, that's what you feel is right... what's the solution?
| 326 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:17:36pm |
re: #313 MandyManners
Have you even read the Constitution? Look up Article V.
And, no, I won't give you a link as I did for Marx. Do your own work.
| 327 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:17:42pm |
re: #308 avanti
Well, he's shifted it around a few times.
He said he'd show inaccuracies in the code. He also said this:
Well Charles, any one section of code may have calls to other procedures or functions that may or may not reflect on what is happening with any set of data.
I have in mind a section of code that takes input from a flat file and parses it... badly... with no checks for invalid data coming in, no "scrubbing," nothing to prevent invalid records from being created. But that procedure calls other functions.
| 328 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:17:51pm |
re: #320 Vambo
is MSNBC the liberal equivalent to Fox News? I'm so sorry that liberals exist and sometimes get careers as journalists or pundits.
SOEMTIMES?!?!?!
| 329 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:18:28pm |
re: #318 jamesfirecat
Says here
[Link: www.usconstitution.net...]We need a 2/3rds majority vote in both houses of our legislative body, or "congress" like I said. That's what you call the Senate and the house of Representatives put together isn't it?
AAARRRGGGHHH
| 330 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:18:30pm |
re: #311 Walter L. Newton
Can you please explain exactly what in the RealClimate analysis you disagree with?
It's a short, simple piece.
| 331 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:18:37pm |
re: #275 jamesfirecat
Do you have a problem with the idea that the Congress can add amendments to the constitution?
Um, no. It can't.
State legislatures have to vote on these if 2/3 majority in each House approves the proposal.
| 332 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:18:39pm |
re: #310 Vambo
You don't deserve a civil response to that, so fuck off!
| 333 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:18:41pm |
re: #311 Walter L. Newton
Big difference is a lot of these errors were not identified in the live programs that CRU used until 2006 onward, by Ian Harris. That's a simple fact that Ian Harris documents over and over.
This would be the same as if YOU were hired at some financial firm to maintain some financial programs, programs that were used daily by the company, and you started to find out that the programs were loosing money for the company for years and years.
OK, assume for the sake of discussion, the pre 2006 data was corrupt, how bad was it, and how far off from the the rest of the data sets was it ?
| 334 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:18:44pm |
re: #321 Walter L. Newton
I"m saying, simply, that they're not the conclusions you're claiming. They're a log for a work in progress. You still haven't shown convincingly that the problems he was trying to fix led to any incorrect data being published. Isn't that the claim?
| 335 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:18:51pm |
re: #310 Vambo
It's comments like these that make it easy for me to understand why partisan buffoons like you hate Obama - hint: he is a center president.
Center, as in directly between your cheeks.
| 336 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:18:52pm |
re: #273 jamesfirecat
Plus I don't really think that Air America can be considered the equal of Fox, in either size of shape.
Granted I haven't done that much watching of MSNBC, but do they com out in favor of Code Pink crazies?
Air America lacked chutzpah. It was a dwarf of a dwarf compared to Fox.
Code Pink is an organization that has recently attached itself to larger organizations for exposure but overall, is still largely ignored. They tend to get local coverage but at the huge anti-war rallies they are just another group among the jerks.
On a personal note, I used to be rather neutral towards Code Pink although I did think they were being jerks to the Marines in Berkeley. With respect to their recent attachment to larger organizations, Code Pink has joined the BDS movement against Israel and is now rubbing shoulders with some bad elements - with full eagerness no less. It's another case of irony among the left-wingnuts.
| 337 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:18:56pm |
re: #323 Varek Raith
Center, no. Center-left, probably. Left, possibly. Extreme Left, no. Socialist, no. Commie, most certainly not.
Or some such.
Regardless ,,, I'll bet HE can get on an elevator!!
//
| 338 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:19:00pm |
re: #323 Varek Raith
Center, no. Center-left, probably. Left, possibly. Extreme Left, no. Socialist, no. Commie, most certainly not.
Or some such.
center-left, definitely. I think some people here have a problem with anyone who tries to appeal to liberals, because it's not like we're Americans too or whatever.
| 339 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:19:21pm |
| 342 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:20:01pm |
| 343 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:20:17pm |
re: #338 Vambo
In general, American's wouldn't know the real left if it bit them on the Ass :p
| 344 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:20:25pm |
re: #326 MandyManners
And, no, I won't give you a link as I did for Marx. Do your own work.
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."
It says it right there at the top one of the ways to change the constitution starts with a 2/3rds vote in both houses of "the Congress" like I said back in my original post.
So Mandy why did you say the Congress couldn't amend the Constitution?
| 345 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:20:26pm |
| 346 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:20:31pm |
re: #311 Walter L. Newton
Big difference is a lot of these errors were not identified in the live programs that CRU used until 2006 onward, by Ian Harris. That's a simple fact that Ian Harris documents over and over.
This would be the same as if YOU were hired at some financial firm to maintain some financial programs, programs that were used daily by the company, and you started to find out that the programs were loosing money for the company for years and years.
Thats is where your call to Walter is a bit much, Obdicut.
| 347 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:20:37pm |
| 348 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:20:42pm |
re: #312 Dark_Falcon
Concur. If you think MSNBC is not liberal, then Brookly has a bridge he'd like to talk to you about buying.
Ever watch their morning show?
Matthews is pretty much a centrist who chooses at random who he's going to side with and who he's going to bash, Maddow wears her liberal bias on her sleeve but is a damn good political analyst overall and Olberman wears clown shoes.
| 349 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:21:00pm |
re: #338 Vambo
Why don't you take your partisan hater ass over to the Daily Kos, where you'll be more at home.
| 351 |
TampaKnight Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:21:28pm |
re: #348 Conservative Moonbat
Ever watch their morning show?
Matthews is pretty much a centrist who chooses at random who he's going to side with and who he's going to bash, Maddow wears her liberal bias on her sleeve but is a damn good political analyst overall and Olberman wears clown shoes.
She's a good political analyst as a champion of the left.
| 352 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:21:30pm |
re: #330 Obdicut
Specifically, Walter, do you disagree with this?
Results are shown in the following figures. The key points: both Set A and Set B indicate warming with trends that are statistically identical between the CRU data and the raw data (>99% confidence); the histograms show that CRU quality control has, as expected, narrowed the variance (both extreme positive and negative values removed).
| 353 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:21:30pm |
re: #310 Vambo
It's comments like these that make it easy for me to understand why partisan buffoons like you hate Obama - hint: he is a center president.
He's not as liberal as I thought he would be, based on the campaign.
And, I will admit I am partisan, I think most of us probably are, which is why we have 2 major political parties and a bunch of small ones. It's the nature of the game, and it is our right and our responsibility to be informed and have opinions, which makes for "partisanship".
Finally - I wouldn't have dinged you down except for the "buffoon" comment. Just unnecessary to make your point.
| 354 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:21:56pm |
re: #327 Obdicut
Well, he's shifted it around a few times.
He said he'd show inaccuracies in the code. He also said this:
Right... I said I "have in mind." I decided to take a more inclusive tack and develop the essay so it was not so "code heavy" and more understandable to a wider audience.
There is a lot of talk about code. Every time Harris mentions the results of processing and creating some data, he is talking about program code that is producing that data, and he is frustrated that the legacy program code is full of problems.
There is a lot of talk about code in the essay, via Harris' comments.
| 355 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:22:00pm |
re: #339 Varek Raith
Concur.
Clearly my reading comprehension is failing me.
Will somebody take pity upon this pour pathetic confused nieve liberal and explain to him where he's wrong?
| 356 |
brookly red Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:22:13pm |
re: #335 brookly red
Center, as in directly between your cheeks.
OK, it's commie time... have fun everyone ! I got some things to take care of.
| 357 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:22:24pm |
re: #338 Vambo
I don't see that. I draw my political beliefs from all over the place. Not just one ideology.
| 358 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:22:38pm |
re: #344 jamesfirecat
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."
It says it right there at the top one of the ways to change the constitution starts with a 2/3rds vote in both houses of "the Congress" like I said back in my original post.
So Mandy why did you say the Congress couldn't amend the Constitution?
Congress can only propose. The states are the ones that get the final vote.
| 359 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:22:51pm |
re: #310 Vambo
What the fuck are you doing, dude? Using language like that is simply asking for a generalized fight. That accomplishes nothing.
| 361 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:22:56pm |
re: #299 Obdicut
His claim that the net result is affected has fallen. His other claims are holding up just fine.
| 362 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:23:08pm |
re: #355 jamesfirecat
Clearly my reading comprehension is failing me.
Will somebody take pity upon this pour pathetic confused nieve liberal and explain to him where he's wrong?
James.
See:
re: #331 reine.de.tout
Um, no. It can't.
State legislatures have to vote on these if 2/3 majority in each House approves the proposal.
| 363 |
Cheechako Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:23:08pm |
Walter - thank you for your post. What I perceive you to be saying is the old programmer axiom "Garbage In = Garbage Out". A question I have is how many scientists used the uncorrected, pre 2006-2009 data in their research and never used (or heard about) the updated "corrected" data from 2009?
With so much at stake for the world I'd like to see this particular research to be re-done in an open and unbiased manner. That's the only way this issue can be put to rest.
| 364 |
A Man for all Seasons Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:23:14pm |
I love the Olympics!
So there is this scandal on the blogs...
Here is where you can vote..
Are those shirts the Men wear in the Ice skating really just blouses?
I mean the chatter is what are the rules between a shirt or a Blouse?
It's like a Seinfeld episode...How should we vote lizards? Shirt or Blouse?
| 365 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:23:16pm |
re: #348 Conservative Moonbat
I think Maddow does a fine job of political analysis, especially when she took the John Birch society to task.
| 366 |
webevintage Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:23:42pm |
re: #351 TampaKnight
She's a good political analyst as a champion of the left.
and very, very polite.
| 367 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:23:45pm |
re: #355 jamesfirecat
Clearly my reading comprehension is failing me.
Will somebody take pity upon this pour pathetic confused nieve liberal and explain to him where he's wrong?
re: #309 Varek Raith
To Propose Amendments
* Two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote to propose an amendment, or
* Two-thirds of the state legislatures ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments. (This method has never been used.)
To Ratify Amendments
* Three-fourths of the state legislatures approve it, or
* Ratifying conventions in three-fourths of the states approve it. This method has been used only once -- to ratify the 21st Amendment -- repealing Prohibition.
| 368 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:24:00pm |
re: #355 jamesfirecat
Clearly my reading comprehension is failing me.
Will somebody take pity upon this pour pathetic confused nieve liberal and explain to him where he's wrong?
READ THE DAMN THING.
| 369 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:24:07pm |
re: #354 Walter L. Newton
Please see my 352.
Do you dispute that the CRU data and the raw data agree to within 99% confidence?
| 370 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:24:11pm |
re: #359 Obdicut
I think that he just lost his temper for a minute, the guy is a bit tightly wound >>
/irony alert!!!
//also like others don't say alot worse than calling someone 'a baffoon' on here all the time!
| 371 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:24:21pm |
re: #348 Conservative Moonbat
I think that Matthews leans left, myself. That said, i don't really have a problem with him or Maddow, I'm just saying they're liberal. Avanti and iceweasel are also liberal and I don't have a problem with them. Its the way a person behaves that really decides how I regard them.
| 372 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:24:22pm |
re: #364 HoosierHoops
I love the Olympics!
So there is this scandal on the blogs...
Here is where you can vote..
Are those shirts the Men wear in the Ice skating really just blouses?
I mean the chatter is what are the rules between a shirt or a Blouse?
It's like a Seinfeld episode...How should we vote lizards? Shirt or Blouse?
call me when Peekaboo makes her run
| 373 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:24:29pm |
re: #310 Vambo
No need for insulting name calling. This thread has a shot at staying calm and cogent. Far more entertaining and informative that way.
| 374 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:24:37pm |
re: #358 MandyManners
Congress can only propose. The states are the ones that get the final vote.
Okay gotcha.
This has been my down dinging learning moment of the day brought to me by the letters "S" for State and "L" for Legislature along with the number -1!
Can you tell me how to get... how to get to Ell F Geee?
| 375 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:24:45pm |
re: #340 Vambo
OMG SO SORRY LIBRUL MEDIA ELITE etc etc.
Way to miss the point
Fox is conservative, and has conservative commentators. They also have several liberal ones that although don't have full time shows, are regular contributors (for "balance")
Thats ONE network. Please tell me what other networks lean right?
MEANWHILE ,,, MSNBC (Maddow ,,Matthews,,, Olberman) ABC (Stephanopoulous) CNN (similar to Fox whereas lost of left leaning with a few righties for "balance")
| 376 |
webevintage Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:25:06pm |
re: #364 HoosierHoops
I love the Olympics!
So there is this scandal on the blogs...
Here is where you can vote..
Are those shirts the Men wear in the Ice skating really just blouses?
I mean the chatter is what are the rules between a shirt or a Blouse?
It's like a Seinfeld episode...How should we vote lizards? Shirt or Blouse?
Is it a puffy shirt/blouse?
| 377 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:25:28pm |
re: #364 HoosierHoops
I love the Olympics!
So there is this scandal on the blogs...
Here is where you can vote..
Are those shirts the Men wear in the Ice skating really just blouses?
I mean the chatter is what are the rules between a shirt or a Blouse?
It's like a Seinfeld episode...How should we vote lizards? Shirt or Blouse?
If it's loose and flowing, it's a blouse.
More close-fitted - a shirt.
Just my .02
| 378 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:25:29pm |
re: #371 Dark_Falcon
Its the way a person behaves that really decides how I regard them.
Quite Concur.
| 379 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:25:31pm |
re: #349 Dark_Falcon
There's no reason to be rude. Tell us what's on your mind instead casting stones at another.
| 380 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:25:54pm |
re: #333 avanti
OK, assume for the sake of discussion, the pre 2006 data was corrupt, how bad was it, and how far off from the the rest of the data sets was it ?
This is an instance where "hard" scientists' passion for rigor works against them. Sociologists, anthropologists, and archaeologists are humble enough to recognize the limits of their data and publish best-guess answers.
| 381 |
TampaKnight Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:26:00pm |
You all realize that Fox got popular because they filled the giant void in the media for any right-leaning news and perspective....right?
They wouldn't have been so received if the media was truly balanced like everyone claims it is.
| 382 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:26:04pm |
| 383 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:26:11pm |
re: #371 Dark_Falcon
I think that Matthews leans left, myself. That said, i don't really have a problem with him or Maddow, I'm just saying they're liberal. Avanti and iceweasel are also liberal and I don't have a problem with them. Its the way a person behaves that really decides how I regard them.
Hell, yeah, he leans left. Remember the "tingle" bit? And, remember he wrote speeches for Carter?
| 384 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:26:50pm |
re: #374 jamesfirecat
Okay gotcha.
This has been my down dinging learning moment of the day brought to me by the letters "S" for State and "L" for Legislature along with the number -1!
Can you tell me how to get... how to get to Ell F Geee?
Someone dinged you for this?
| 385 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:27:04pm |
re: #379 eclectic infidel
There's no reason to be rude. Tell us what's on your mind instead casting stones at another.
Sorry. I got kind of wound up there. Please forgive my lapse in civility.
| 386 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:27:42pm |
re: #385 Dark_Falcon
Sorry. I got kind of wound up there. Please forgive my lapse in civility.
Heat sink wearing out?
/
| 387 |
cliffster Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:28:18pm |
I'm off to go steal an election. see you loosers later
| 388 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:28:21pm |
re: #384 MandyManners
Someone dinged you for this?
I don't think so, (haven't checked)
But I know I've got a habit of saying stupid things and getting down dinged for them and hopefully coming away microscopically more intelligent for my foolishness.
| 389 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:28:24pm |
On the topic of lunatics and wingnuts, reading part of Thoreau's Journal, I ran across this passage that reminded me of some of the political speechifying shows put on lately:
After lecturing twice this winter I feel that I am in danger of cheapening myself by trying to become a successful lecturer, i.e., to interest my audiences. I am disappointed to find that most that I am and value myself for is lost, or worse than lost, on my audience. I fail to get even the attention of the mass. I should suit them better if I suited myself less. I feel that the public demand an average man,—average thoughts and manners,—not originality, nor even absolute excellence. You cannot interest them except as you are like them and sympathize with them. I would rather that my audience come to me than that I should go to them, and so they be sifted; i.e., I would rather write books than lectures. That is fine, this coarse. To read to a promiscuous audience who are at your mercy the fine thoughts you solaced yourself with far away is as violent as to fatten geese by cramming, and in this case they do not get fatter.
| 390 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:28:27pm |
re: #334 windsagio
I"m saying, simply, that they're not the conclusions you're claiming. They're a log for a work in progress. You still haven't shown convincingly that the problems he was trying to fix led to any incorrect data being published. Isn't that the claim?
It is a log for a LIVE LEGACY PROGRAM SUITE. Do you know what that implies? Harris sat down in 2006 and started to try to produce data that he was tasked to create, his biggest project was to create a new version of CRU TS 3.0 and he couldn't do it accurately. The programs were full of problems.
These are the same programs that produced CRU TS 1.0 and onward.
The CRU TS databases are a combination of data coming from a number of different sources... station temperature reading, cloud data, sun data, wet data... to name a few, and these different datasets are combined to make a world wide grid of temperature anomalies across the globe.
When he started to create a new version of CRU TS, he couldn't do it. He found mistake after mistake. And even after fixing the mistakes, and sent out the new CRU TS 3.0, it has problems.
Harris is a hero, CRU and their legacy data is pitiful.
| 391 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:29:03pm |
re: #374 jamesfirecat
Since I was 17, I've had one copy or another of the U.S. Constitution on my desk. Do you have one? If not, please get one.
| 392 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:29:09pm |
re: #385 Dark_Falcon
Sorry. I got kind of wound up there. Please forgive my lapse in civility.
It was out of character for you Dark, but so rare a occurrence that we should let it slide.
| 393 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:29:42pm |
re: #388 jamesfirecat
I don't think so, (haven't checked)
But I know I've got a habit of saying stupid things and getting down dinged for them and hopefully coming away microscopically more intelligent for my foolishness.
Well, at least you're willing to learn!
| 394 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:29:44pm |
| 395 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:29:46pm |
re: #369 Obdicut
Please see my 352.
Do you dispute that the CRU data and the raw data agree to within 99% confidence?
Now... 2010... not before 2006, read his narrative.
| 396 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:29:48pm |
re: #391 MandyManners
Since I was 17, I've had one copy or another of the U.S. Constitution on my desk. Do you have one? If not, please get one.
Would also suggest he have a copy of the constitution of the State where he lives.
Most informative.
| 397 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:29:53pm |
re: #390 Walter L. Newton
Harris is a hero, CRU and their legacy data is pitiful.
Walter:
Results are shown in the following figures. The key points: both Set A and Set B indicate warming with trends that are statistically identical between the CRU data and the raw data (>99% confidence); the histograms show that CRU quality control has, as expected, narrowed the variance (both extreme positive and negative values removed).
How is their data pitiful, if it matches the raw data so well?
| 398 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:30:01pm |
re: #388 jamesfirecat
I don't think so, (haven't checked)
But I know I've got a habit of saying stupid things and getting down dinged for them and hopefully coming away microscopically more intelligent for my foolishness.
Heh, I stay several parsecs away from serious religious discussions for this reason alone...Well, except for the learning part.
;)
| 399 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:30:30pm |
| 400 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:30:32pm |
re: #396 reine.de.tout
Would also suggest he have a copy of the constitution of the State where he lives.
Most informative.
Great idea.
| 401 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:30:53pm |
re: #338 Vambo
center-left, definitely. I think some people here have a problem with anyone who tries to appeal to liberals, because it's not like we're Americans too or whatever.
Drive by here-- Vambo, some unasked for advice:
don't let yourself be baited, try to maintain calm, don't make sweeping statements about the right without qualifying them up the wazoo. Try not to namecall unless someone has called you a name, and generally only once for every three times that person does it to you.
There are still some doublestandards here; lefties don't get away with making sweeping statements about the right. Wingnuts (now) get called out (usually) for making sweeping statements about the left.
Don't listen to people who tell you to go away, either.
And generally, remember that there is still a bias (as there is in all web communities) where newer posters are held to different standards than older ones.
Finally-- most folk here are pretty great people. We can disagree totally on some political issues then find out we agree on others, and that's pretty cool.
/random iceweasel stream of consciousness, no offense intended to any.
| 403 |
pharmmajor Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:31:04pm |
I have definitely got to get a copy of this book.
| 404 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:31:18pm |
re: #386 Varek Raith
Heat sink wearing out?
/
Maybe. It's not venting the heat from my right arm ER PPC like it should. I'll have the techs take a look at it.
/Battletech geekage
| 405 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:31:19pm |
re: #398 Varek Raith
Heh, I stay several parsecs away from serious religious discussions for this reason alone...Well, except for the learning part.
;)
It's almost like being in college, the stuff you can learn here.
There are times I know my best bet is to keep quiet and just read.
| 406 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:31:22pm |
re: #381 TampaKnight
You all realize that Fox got popular because they filled the giant void in the media for any right-leaning news and perspective...right?
They wouldn't have been so received if the media was truly balanced like everyone claims it is.
Fox got popular because it was perceived that there was a liberal bias in the media, something conservative politicians always used as an excuse for poor public reception and/or lack of popularity in the 1990s. It appeals to wingnuts because they are not interested in a different perspective, only one that nurtures their existing opinions and prejudices.
| 407 |
Unakite Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:31:46pm |
| 408 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:31:55pm |
re: #390 Walter L. Newton
I understand that, but I just don't see where the problems he found came out.
What about Obdi's 352? That would imply that whatever he found was fixed well before any results were published.
Everything else aside, it was an interesting read, but far short of proving CRU 3.0 wrong.
| 409 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:32:21pm |
re: #401 iceweasel
Drive by here-- Vambo, some unasked for advice:
don't let yourself be baited, try to maintain calm, don't make sweeping statements about the right without qualifying them up the wazoo. Try not to namecall unless someone has called you a name, and generally only once for every three times that person does it to you.There are still some doublestandards here; lefties don't get away with making sweeping statements about the right. Wingnuts (now) get called out (usually) for making sweeping statements about the left.
Don't listen to people who tell you to go away, either.
And generally, remember that there is still a bias (as there is in all web communities) where newer posters are held to different standards than older ones.
Finally-- most folk here are pretty great people. We can disagree totally on some political issues then find out we agree on others, and that's pretty cool.
/random iceweasel stream of consciousness, no offense intended to any.
thanks. :):):):)
| 410 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:32:28pm |
re: #385 Dark_Falcon
Sorry. I got kind of wound up there. Please forgive my lapse in civility.
It's all good. Let me pour you a whiskey & water.
| 411 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:32:45pm |
| 412 |
TampaKnight Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:32:51pm |
re: #406 Vambo
Fox got popular because it was perceived that there was a liberal bias in the media, something conservative politicians always used as an excuse for poor public reception and/or lack of popularity in the 1990s. It appeals to wingnuts because they are not interested in a different perspective, only one that nurtures their existing opinions and prejudices.
That's quite the simpleton response.
| 413 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:32:53pm |
re: #391 MandyManners
Since I was 17, I've had one copy or another of the U.S. Constitution on my desk. Do you have one? If not, please get one.
re: #396 reine.de.tout
Would also suggest he have a copy of the constitution of the State where he lives.
Most informative.
I keep one of each on my desk ,,,,, each on the side of this years Sports Illustrated SwimSuit issue!!!
| 414 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:32:57pm |
re: #397 Obdicut
How is their data pitiful, if it matches the raw data so well?
You comment does not tell me anything about what data you are talking about. When (year), what dataset are you talking about (CRU TS Version X.X, Hadcrut3, what dataset) they have produced many, since the 1990's.
I can't answer you question with out some particulars.
| 415 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:32:59pm |
re: #401 iceweasel
Drive by here-- Vambo, some unasked for advice:
don't let yourself be baited, try to maintain calm, don't make sweeping statements about the right without qualifying them up the wazoo. Try not to namecall unless someone has called you a name, and generally only once for every three times that person does it to you.There are still some doublestandards here; lefties don't get away with making sweeping statements about the right. Wingnuts (now) get called out (usually) for making sweeping statements about the left.
Don't listen to people who tell you to go away, either.
And generally, remember that there is still a bias (as there is in all web communities) where newer posters are held to different standards than older ones.
Finally-- most folk here are pretty great people. We can disagree totally on some political issues then find out we agree on others, and that's pretty cool.
/random iceweasel stream of consciousness, no offense intended to any.
Thank you for that, ice.
| 416 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:33:03pm |
| 418 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:34:01pm |
re: #412 TampaKnight
seems that claiming bias is substantially simpler >>
| 419 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:34:19pm |
re: #393 MandyManners
Well, at least you're willing to learn!
Yeah.
I've learned the history of how (AND WHY) Israel was founded.
I've learned some interesting stuff on the weaknesses of Keynesian economic.
And I've learned that when you're trying to point out a flaw in the inherent logic of the person you're arguing with, make sure the example of what bad things it could lead to is overblown and farcical enough that no one could get offended.
| 420 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:34:46pm |
re: #414 Walter L. Newton
Walter, please read the damn article that actually did the analysis of what CRU produced vs the raw data.
It is an analysis of the data from 1850 to 2000, analyzing CRUTEM3v. The methodology is explained.
[Link: www.realclimate.org...]
| 421 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:35:16pm |
re: #410 eclectic infidel
It's all good. Let me pour you a whiskey & water.
Thanks but no thanks. I'll stick with wine, I don't touch the hard stuff. But I've got the Roast Troll ready so feel free to big. Soda and beer are in the cooler, help yourself.
| 422 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:35:21pm |
| 423 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:35:30pm |
re: #419 jamesfirecat
Yeah.
I've learned the history of how (AND WHY) Israel was founded.
I've learned some interesting stuff on the weaknesses of Keynesian economic.
And I've learned that when you're trying to point out a flaw in the inherent logic of the person you're arguing with, make sure the example of what bad things it could lead to is overblown and farcical enough that no one could get offended.
I'm surprised at some of the gaps in your knowledge.
But quite impressed that you are here regularly and trying to get a handle on things.
| 424 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:35:43pm |
re: #408 windsagio
I understand that, but I just don't see where the problems he found came out.
What about Obdi's 352? That would imply that whatever he found was fixed well before any results were published.
Everything else aside, it was an interesting read, but far short of proving CRU 3.0 wrong.
I don't have to prove anything. Harris clearly makes the statements that the master database, the one that he was handed to work with from 2006 onward was faulty...
“So.. should I really go to town (again) and allow the Master database to be 'fixed' by this program? Quite honestly I don't have time - but it just shows the state our data holdings have drifted into. Who added those two series together? When? Why? Untraceable, except anecdotally. It's the same story for many other Russian stations, unfortunately - meaning that (probably) there was a full Russian update that did no data integrity checking at all. I just hope it's restricted to Russia!!”
| 425 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:35:45pm |
re: #406 Vambo
It appeals to wingnuts because they are not interested in a different perspective, only one that nurtures their existing opinions and prejudices.
It doesn't get the ratings it gets because it "appeals to wingnuts"
If that were the case, Air America (which appealed to the Moonbats) would be alive, well and thriving today
| 426 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:35:49pm |
re: #375 sattv4u2
Way to miss the point
Fox is conservative, and has conservative commentators. They also have several liberal ones that although don't have full time shows, are regular contributors (for "balance")
Thats ONE network. Please tell me what other networks lean right?
Wolf Blitzer leans right and he's the face of CNN
| 427 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:35:52pm |
Red vs Blue - PSA: The Winter Lames
| 428 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:35:56pm |
re: #413 sattv4u2
I keep one of each on my desk ,,, each on the side of this years Sports Illustrated SwimSuit issue!!!
Oh, that's sweet.
| 429 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:36:39pm |
re: #419 jamesfirecat
man I dunno about that last bit, the examples I tend to think of would immediately annihilate any discussion in the thread for the simple reason of their overblownness.
(example, and please everyone don't hurt me too bad: I almost called someone a Sonderkommando once before I realized how stupid, offensive, and suicidal that was)
| 430 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:36:44pm |
And now-- time for Valentine's day at Hotel Biron.
Have a good night, all.
And again, walter:
[Link: www.realclimate.org...]
Read it.
| 431 |
TampaKnight Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:36:50pm |
May I just say that commercials featuring shelter and abused dogs tears me up.
| 432 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:37:02pm |
re: #425 sattv4u2
It appeals to wingnuts because they are not interested in a different perspective, only one that nurtures their existing opinions and prejudices.
It doesn't get the ratings it gets because it "appeals to wingnuts"
If that were the case, Air America (which appealed to the Moonbats) would be alive, well and thriving today
Nah. I'm a super-lefty by standards here, and Air America sucked even as entertainment. I used to love rightwing talk radio though!
| 433 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:37:17pm |
re: #419 jamesfirecat
Yeah.
I've learned the history of how (AND WHY) Israel was founded.
I've learned some interesting stuff on the weaknesses of Keynesian economic.
And I've learned that when you're trying to point out a flaw in the inherent logic of the person you're arguing with, make sure the example of what bad things it could lead to is overblown and farcical enough that no one could get offended.
*noogie*
| 434 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:37:50pm |
re: #425 sattv4u2
It appeals to wingnuts because they are not interested in a different perspective, only one that nurtures their existing opinions and prejudices.
It doesn't get the ratings it gets because it "appeals to wingnuts"
If that were the case, Air America (which appealed to the Moonbats) would be alive, well and thriving today
Unless.... GASP there aren't enough moonbats in this country to support such a thing!
Not trying to say that there are fewer Moonbats than Wingnuts but that does seem like a conlsuion you could reach from the point of data you presented....
| 435 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:38:11pm |
re: #432 iceweasel
Nah. I'm a super-lefty by standards here, and Air America sucked even as entertainment. I used to love rightwing talk radio though!
Ya gotta try the xelA senoJ shows - online, pdcast, so you can take the crazy with you on your iPod.
Now THAT's entertaintment.
| 436 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:38:22pm |
re: #424 Walter L. Newton
at best you're proving what Harris said. Read obdicut's arguments. I'll stay out from between you 2, because at this point I'd just be echoing what he has to say, 'cuz he's saying it better than I could.
| 437 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:38:30pm |
re: #429 windsagio
man I dunno about that last bit, the examples I tend to think of would immediately annihilate any discussion in the thread for the simple reason of their overblownness.
(example, and please everyone don't hurt me too bad: I almost called someone a Sonderkommando once before I realized how stupid, offensive, and suicidal that was)
Well I meant "overblown" in the case of like something out of a bad sci-fi movie.
| 438 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:39:19pm |
re: #437 jamesfirecat
Well I meant "overblown" in the case of like something out of a bad sci-fi movie.
There are NO bad sci-fi flicks. Even the worst of them are pure jewels.
| 439 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:39:32pm |
re: #437 jamesfirecat
Ohhh yeah. Obviously silly is a good way to go.
If you can tie it in to Star Trek or D&D, you're golden!
| 440 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:39:35pm |
re: #427 Varek Raith
Red vs Blue - PSA: The Winter Lames
[Video]
That's nothing. The Stalker blog is staging its own Trollympics. A sampling of the events:
The downhill blog run.
The broad ski jump to conclusion.
Figure skating around the truth.
Feel free to add events.
| 441 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:39:44pm |
re: #425 sattv4u2
It appeals to wingnuts because they are not interested in a different perspective, only one that nurtures their existing opinions and prejudices.
It doesn't get the ratings it gets because it "appeals to wingnuts"
If that were the case, Air America (which appealed to the Moonbats) would be alive, well and thriving today
Makes you wonder how many moonbats are really out there. Anyone know how many bodies in Code Pink?
| 442 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:39:50pm |
re: #381 TampaKnight
You all realize that Fox got popular because they filled the giant void in the media for any right-leaning news and perspective...right?
They wouldn't have been so received if the media was truly balanced like everyone claims it is.
Change that to far-right and I'll buy it.
No advertising supported news media can take an anti-corporatist news bias because they wouldn't get any advertisers. That makes true left news reporting impossible outside NPR and PBS and they feel the need to moderate themselves. There's Bill Moyers and that's about it.
| 443 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:39:54pm |
re: #434 jamesfirecat
Unless... GASP there aren't enough moonbats in this country to support such a thing!
Not trying to say that there are fewer Moonbats than Wingnuts but that does seem like a conlsuion you could reach from the point of data you presented...
Satt was not arguing that Fox appeals only to Wingnuts. He was arguing that it appeals to people other than Wingnuts. AirAmerica, however, appealed to Moonbats.
| 444 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:40:32pm |
re: #441 Decatur Deb
Makes you wonder how many moonbats are really out there. Anyone know how many bodies in Code Pink?
Few, very few. I'd bet fewer than 100 active members.
| 445 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:40:56pm |
re: #435 Guanxi88
Ya gotta try the xelA senoJ shows - online, pdcast, so you can take the crazy with you on your iPod.
Now THAT's entertaintment.
Might do that sometime. The few Alex Jones clips I've seen have been hi-lair-ious.
h/t Archangel Michael for the one where mancow talks about shapeshifters and his dreams being controlled, etc.
| 446 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:40:58pm |
re: #443 MandyManners
Satt was not arguing that Fox appeals only to Wingnuts. He was arguing that it appeals to people other than Wingnuts. AirAmerica, however, appealed to nobody.
You had a slight typo there, what I fixed is bolded :)
AA was terrible, start to finish.
| 447 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:41:02pm |
re: #383 MandyManners
Hell, yeah, he leans left. Remember the "tingle" bit? And, remember he wrote speeches for Carter?
He had a man crush on Bush for years though. He loved the flight suit "mission accomplished" carrier landing performance.
| 448 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:41:18pm |
re: #434 jamesfirecat
Unless... GASP there aren't enough moonbats in this country to support such a thing!
Not trying to say that there are fewer Moonbats than Wingnuts but that does seem like a conlsuion you could reach from the point of data you presented...
Too bad Missing The Point wasn't an Olympic Sport!!!!
/// (I kid, kid!)
| 449 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:41:35pm |
re: #441 Decatur Deb
Makes you wonder how many moonbats are really out there. Anyone know how many bodies in Code Pink?
Very very few.
And in my real life, I know a few (but just a few) non-Code Pink moonbats.
But not many.
| 450 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:41:56pm |
re: #447 Conservative Moonbat
I think of him as being among the ranks of 'mind broken by 9/11'. Eventually he got back to his normal self.
| 451 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:42:15pm |
re: #420 Obdicut
Walter, please read the damn article that actually did the analysis of what CRU produced vs the raw data.
It is an analysis of the data from 1850 to 2000, analyzing CRUTEM3v. The methodology is explained.
[Link: www.realclimate.org...]
This statement is misleading "There is no indication whatsoever of any problem with the CRU data."
CRU produces a whole suite of data bases. CRUTEM is one of many. My discussion was in regards to CRU TS 3.0 which Harris was tasked with to create a new version by Dec. 2009.
Except for the fact that the CRU Time Slice data base feed some data to CRUTEM, it's not the same data base.
I have not done any research on CRUTEM.
See my essay above.
How about we talk about the project that Ian was working on, the project that is the body of my essay.
You are deflecting to another subject.
| 452 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:42:23pm |
re: #425 sattv4u2
It appeals to wingnuts because they are not interested in a different perspective, only one that nurtures their existing opinions and prejudices.
It doesn't get the ratings it gets because it "appeals to wingnuts"
If that were the case, Air America (which appealed to the Moonbats) would be alive, well and thriving today
Because Air America had the accessibility as Fox News? I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but you probably ignored it. In some areas Fox News is available to people without cable. I worked in a factory where Fox News was playing 24/7 on a cafeteria TV. I can't even find Air America on kitchen radio.
I guess it doesn't matter though, some people just look at the numbers and ignore everything else. And anyway, if it's popular, it must be right.
| 453 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:42:45pm |
re: #447 Conservative Moonbat
He had a man crush on Bush for years though. He loved the flight suit "mission accomplished" carrier landing performance.
Well, that paints Matthews in a slightly unusual light. But, I stand by my contention that he is a Lefty.
| 454 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:42:55pm |
| 455 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:42:56pm |
re: #445 iceweasel
Might do that sometime. The few Alex Jones clips I've seen have been hi-lair-ious.
h/t Archangel Michael for the one where mancow talks about shapeshifters and his dreams being controlled, etc.
Mancow Mueller: The man who put out a theory so out there that Alex Jones understood it was Bad Craziness.
| 456 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:43:34pm |
re: #447 Conservative Moonbat
He had a man crush on Bush for years though. He loved the flight suit "mission accomplished" carrier landing performance.
Yep. Here's a sampling of Chris Matthews' embarassing man crush on Bush:
# Chris ♥ George, Part 1: Bush sometimes "glimmers" with "sunny nobility." On MSNBC's Hardball, during a discussion with Washington Times editorial page editor Tony Blankley of the effects on President Bush and his administration of the investigation into the leak of the name of CIA operative Valerie Plame, Matthews said "[S]ometimes it glimmers with this man, our president, that kind of sunny nobility." [Hardball, 10/24/05]
# Chris ♥ George, Part 2: "Everybody sort of likes the president, except for the real whack-jobs ..." Insulting the majority of Americans who hold an unfavorable opinion of President Bush, Matthews exclaimed on Hardball: "Everybody sort of likes the president, except for the real whack-jobs, maybe on the left," adding, "I mean, like him personally." [Hardball, 11/28/05]
# Chris ♥ George, Part 3: Matthews praised Bush speech as "brilliant" even before it was delivered. Before Bush had even delivered his November 30 speech at the U.S. Naval Academy, Matthews used variations of the word "brilliant" twice to describe it, while deriding Democratic critics of the Iraq war as "carpers and complainers." [MSNBC live coverage, 11/30/05]
# Chris ♥ George, Part 4: Bush "belongs on Mount Rushmore." Recounting his experience at a White House party, Matthews said that he "felt sensitive" during his interactions with the president, adding: "You get your picture taken with him. It's like Santa Claus, and he's always very generous and friendly." He continued: "I felt like I was too towel-snappy with him," explaining that Bush had noted his "red scarf" and remarked that he looked "preppy." During the same show, Matthews stated: "If [Bush's] gamble that he can create a democracy in the middle of the Arab world" is successful, "he belongs on Mount Rushmore." [Hardball, 12/16/05]
I feel too ill to continue. More at link.
| 457 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:43:55pm |
re: #391 MandyManners
Since I was 17, I've had one copy or another of the U.S. Constitution on my desk. Do you have one? If not, please get one.
I've had a pic of Ben Franklin near my desk since I was in my teens.
| 458 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:44:02pm |
re: #442 Conservative Moonbat
Change that to far-right and I'll buy it.
No advertising supported news media can take an anti-corporatist news bias because they wouldn't get any advertisers. That makes true left news reporting impossible outside NPR and PBS and they feel the need to moderate themselves. There's Bill Moyers and that's about it.
They can survive (poorly) in very tight demographics, like Pacifica Radio. Much of their money might be from lefty angels.
| 459 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:44:22pm |
re: #452 Vambo
Because Air America had the accessibility as Fox News? I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but you probably ignored it. In some areas Fox News is available to people without cable. I worked in a factory where Fox News was playing 24/7 on a cafeteria TV. I can't even find Air America on kitchen radio.
I guess it doesn't matter though, some people just look at the numbers and ignore everything else. And anyway, if it's popular, it must be right.
We had Air America here in Austin for a while. It bought out entire blocks on what had been a Spanish-langauge AM station playing conjunto and "classicos populares".
Turns out, conjunto and classicos populares were more popular than Randi Rhodes.
Now, if it can't make a go of it in Austin, it ain't gonna make it anywhere in Texas.
| 460 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:44:34pm |
oohh...looks like a book i can enjoy without disounting the bias of the auther....guess i'll find out once i read it.
| 461 |
TampaKnight Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:44:37pm |
re: #452 Vambo
Because Air America had the accessibility as Fox News? I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but you probably ignored it. In some areas Fox News is available to people without cable. I worked in a factory where Fox News was playing 24/7 on a cafeteria TV. I can't even find Air America on kitchen radio.
I guess it doesn't matter though, some people just look at the numbers and ignore everything else. And anyway, if it's popular, it must be right.
That's because Air America failed, and failed miserably. How hard is that to understand? If there was a market, and a quality product, it would be more available. I've seen conservative radio talk shows start from nothing and get at least regional syndication.
And don't act like Air America was attempting some grand highly intellectual programming to conter the "evil" conservatives- they were running the same platforms and same styles, but they failed and had no market.
| 462 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:44:51pm |
it appears I have offended the resident Fox News Fangirl.
c'mon Mandy, it's not 1999 anymore.
| 463 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:45:15pm |
re: #454 Walter L. Newton
hmm, is obdi actually gone? I don't wanna step in if he's still here >
if not, in a little bit I'll give my own answer.
| 464 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:45:45pm |
re: #301 windsagio
Walter put a huge amount of time and energy into working on this.
I haven't see YOU make any kind of effort on this scale.
You might want to re-think the snarkiness?
Walter has invested a LOT of time & energy into this.
I don't see any time or energy invested on your part.
| 465 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:46:38pm |
re: #426 Conservative Moonbat
Wolf Blitzer leans right and he's the face of CNN
Wolf may (or may not) "lean right", but I work with people at CNN every day and I can tell you that there are still a LOT of Ted Turner people there,,,,, writers , editors , producers , directors ,,management ,,
| 466 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:46:53pm |
re: #456 iceweasel
Yep. Here's a sampling of Chris Matthews' embarassing man crush on Bush:
# Chris ♥ George, Part 1: Bush sometimes "glimmers" with "sunny nobility." On MSNBC's Hardball, during a discussion with Washington Times editorial page editor Tony Blankley of the effects on President Bush and his administration of the investigation into the leak of the name of CIA operative Valerie Plame, Matthews said "[S]ometimes it glimmers with this man, our president, that kind of sunny nobility." [Hardball, 10/24/05]
# Chris ♥ George, Part 2: "Everybody sort of likes the president, except for the real whack-jobs ..." Insulting the majority of Americans who hold an unfavorable opinion of President Bush, Matthews exclaimed on Hardball: "Everybody sort of likes the president, except for the real whack-jobs, maybe on the left," adding, "I mean, like him personally." [Hardball, 11/28/05]
# Chris ♥ George, Part 3: Matthews praised Bush speech as "brilliant" even before it was delivered. Before Bush had even delivered his November 30 speech at the U.S. Naval Academy, Matthews used variations of the word "brilliant" twice to describe it, while deriding Democratic critics of the Iraq war as "carpers and complainers." [MSNBC live coverage, 11/30/05]
# Chris ♥ George, Part 4: Bush "belongs on Mount Rushmore." Recounting his experience at a White House party, Matthews said that he "felt sensitive" during his interactions with the president, adding: "You get your picture taken with him. It's like Santa Claus, and he's always very generous and friendly." He continued: "I felt like I was too towel-snappy with him," explaining that Bush had noted his "red scarf" and remarked that he looked "preppy." During the same show, Matthews stated: "If [Bush's] gamble that he can create a democracy in the middle of the Arab world" is successful, "he belongs on Mount Rushmore." [Hardball, 12/16/05]
I feel too ill to continue. More at link.
I'm sorry I couldn't go beyond "glimmers with sunny nobility"
What is he a vampire out of Twilight?
| 467 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:46:59pm |
re: #401 iceweasel
Drive by here-- Vambo, some unasked for advice:
don't let yourself be baited, try to maintain calm, don't make sweeping statements about the right without qualifying them up the wazoo. Try not to namecall unless someone has called you a name, and generally only once for every three times that person does it to you.There are still some doublestandards here; lefties don't get away with making sweeping statements about the right. Wingnuts (now) get called out (usually) for making sweeping statements about the left.
Don't listen to people who tell you to go away, either.
And generally, remember that there is still a bias (as there is in all web communities) where newer posters are held to different standards than older ones.
Finally-- most folk here are pretty great people. We can disagree totally on some political issues then find out we agree on others, and that's pretty cool.
/random iceweasel stream of consciousness, no offense intended to any.
To put that in fewer words, since this was originally a conservative blog I still feel and act like I'm a guest in someone else's house. I have reached the point of changing the station on the TV without asking though.
| 468 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:47:09pm |
| 469 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:47:14pm |
re: #444 Guanxi88
Few, very few. I'd bet fewer than 100 active members.
Even if they had 1000 active members, the median age is not 30. At the anti-Israel protests I've countered, usually about 1 dozen pink ladies show up. Most appear to be in their 50s and up. Give another ten years and that organization is going to be in dire straights with respect to membership.
| 470 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:47:25pm |
re: #310 Vambo
It's comments like these that make it easy for me to understand why partisan buffoons like you hate Obama - hint: he is a center president.
He is a centrist president. He's extending many of Bush's policies, which magically are no longer cricket the instant a Democratic president is employing them. See: hypocritical bullshit from Republicans in congress about trying terrorists as civilians. Fine when Bush does it! OH GOD PANIC THE REPUBLIC IS DOOMED when Obama does it. Anyone who doesn't think he's a centrist president should probably take a look at the rest of the world, and what they consider to be a "left wing" party. Conservative parties in other parts of the world are what we'd call democrats here.
But the tribalism and the know-nothings and the blind partisans and the root root root for our fat racist blithering talk show host and the guys who treat politics like there's just two end zones and a 50 yard line, they just roll on and on and on and on...
| 471 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:47:30pm |
re: #464 Floral Giraffe
Walter put a huge amount of time and energy into working on this.
I haven't see YOU make any kind of effort on this scale.
You might want to re-think the snarkiness?Walter has invested a LOT of time & energy into this.
I don't see any time or energy invested on your part.
riding the shirt tails of others, bitching about something they themselves can not do....pathetic
| 472 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:48:01pm |
re: #468 windsagio
You aren't seriously comparing Walter's essay to...TimeCube, are you???
???
| 473 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:48:05pm |
re: #468 windsagio
Sigh, I shouldn't go back to it, but I will. The amount of effort he put in doesn't have any bearing on his results, not really.
Gene Ray put a LOT of time and energy into Time Cube as well, but that doesn't make it less crazy.
So now I am crazy. Thank you for that. I don't know why you have to go there.
| 474 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:48:17pm |
re: #461 TampaKnight
That's because Air America failed, and failed miserably. How hard is that to understand? If there was a market, and a quality product, it would be more available. I've seen conservative radio talk shows start from nothing and get at least regional syndication.
Britney Spears music is highly available, while RL Burnside was highly obscure.
How hard is it to understand that what is popular is not always a "quality product"?
And don't act like Air America was attempting some grand highly intellectual programming to conter the "evil" conservatives- they were running the same platforms and same styles, but they failed and had no market.
I've never heard Air America, why would I say that.
| 475 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:48:22pm |
re: #456 iceweasel
I was one of those wackjobs! :D me and all my kaaaraaazy education and opinions!
| 476 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:48:31pm |
re: #425 sattv4u2
Air America was too ernest and boring as hell. Much like Amy, God love her, Goodman.
| 477 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:48:55pm |
re: #464 Floral Giraffe
Walter put a huge amount of time and energy into working on this.
I haven't see YOU make any kind of effort on this scale.
You might want to re-think the snarkiness?Walter has invested a LOT of time & energy into this.
I don't see any time or energy invested on your part.
Is effort more important than facts?
| 478 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:49:09pm |
re: #469 eclectic infidel
Even if they had 1000 active members, the median age is not 30. At the anti-Israel protests I've countered, usually about 1 dozen pink ladies show up. Most appear to be in their 50s and up. Give another ten years and that organization is going to be in dire straights with respect to membership.
Well, I never thought of them as anything other or more than a sort of Westboro Baptist Church of the anti-war movement. I had - and continue to have - a bit of fun at their expense, but that's about the extent of it.
I'd imagine it's not too awfully difficult to get together a group of up to 1000 people for any cause, no matter how crazed or transparently goofy.
| 479 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:50:03pm |
re: #406 Vambo
Fox got popular because it was perceived that there was a liberal bias in the media, something conservative politicians always used as an excuse for poor public reception and/or lack of popularity in the 1990s. It appeals to wingnuts because they are not interested in a different perspective, only one that nurtures their existing opinions and prejudices.
They built on a market created by talk radio.
| 480 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:50:14pm |
re: #472 Varek Raith
re: #473 Walter L. Newton
If you had a fun way to reference Time Cube, wouldn't you?
Don't read too much into that, it wasn't intended, and I apologize that it came off that way (with hindsight I can see how it did)
My point to FG was "Effort doesn't automatically make you correct". I put in Time Cube because its classic internet funny, not as a dig at Walter.
| 481 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:50:16pm |
re: #476 prairiefire
Air America was too ernest and boring as hell. Much like Amy, God love her, Goodman.
Amy Goodman, drier than dry toast. The good liberal shows like Stephanie Miller do just fine, the bad ones fell by the wayside. Like Al Franken's show. I know everyone he has a giant hate-on for Al Franken, but the guy is smart as a whip. he's an AWFUL broadcaster though, his show was unlistenable.
| 482 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:50:23pm |
re: #468 windsagio
You still, and really now, owe Walter an apology.
| 483 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:50:36pm |
re: #476 prairiefire
Air America was too ernest and boring as hell. Much like Amy, God love her, Goodman.
You get the feeling, at least with her, that she's about the last person you'd want to have a drink with. Gimme a brawling, loud, fun-loving guy (or gal) and, politics aside, i can at least listen to him or her, provided he or she is bright.
| 484 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:50:37pm |
re: #466 jamesfirecat
I'm sorry I couldn't go beyond "glimmers with sunny nobility"
What is he a vampire out of Twilight?
ha! Yeah, that bit does me in as well.
Really, Matthews is just a gasbag. Every once in a while he does something decent but he's really just a Beltway Villager, concerned with retaining his access to the cocktail party circuit, clueless, lazy and repeating whatever the meme of the day is for the Village.
Love the Twilight ref!
| 485 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:51:03pm |
re: #452 Vambo
Because Air America had the accessibility as Fox News? I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but you probably ignored it. In some areas Fox News is available to people without cable. I worked in a factory where Fox News was playing 24/7 on a cafeteria TV. I can't even find Air America on kitchen radio.
I guess it doesn't matter though, some people just look at the numbers and ignore everything else. And anyway, if it's popular, it must be right.
Fox didn't start out at the top. It had finances, but I;ll show you hundreds of ventures both in and out of media that had "finances" at the beginning and failed
And see 465 re Blitzeer and CNN,, and talk abou MONEY , Turner was on the verge of buying CBS at one point
| 486 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:51:25pm |
re: #482 Racer X
I apologzied for 468, the other thing, lets just agree that I'll go back to holding my peace on the subject. I shouldn't apologize if I believe I"m right.
| 487 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:51:27pm |
re: #475 WindUpBird
I was one of those wackjobs! :D me and all my kaaaraaazy education and opinions!
Another wackjob here! *waves*
| 488 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:51:29pm |
re: #470 WindUpBird
He is a centrist president. He's extending many of Bush's policies, which magically are no longer cricket the instant a Democratic president is employing them. See: hypocritical bullshit from Republicans in congress about trying terrorists as civilians. Fine when Bush does it! OH GOD PANIC THE REPUBLIC IS DOOMED when Obama does it. Anyone who doesn't think he's a centrist president should probably take a look at the rest of the world, and what they consider to be a "left wing" party. Conservative parties in other parts of the world are what we'd call democrats here.
But the tribalism and the know-nothings and the blind partisans and the root root root for our fat racist blithering talk show host and the guys who treat politics like there's just two end zones and a 50 yard line, they just roll on and on and on and on...
BO is centrist where he has no political option, otherwise he's hard core left....he's learning as he goes with regard to Bush's policies....his campaign said otherwise with regard to Gitmo, investigations into waterboarding etc...he stands for nothing, but just blows whatever way is politically profitable...if he re-runs you will hear the same pandering all over again
| 489 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:51:34pm |
re: #484 iceweasel
ha! Yeah, that bit does me in as well.
Really, Matthews is just a gasbag. Every once in a while he does something decent but he's really just a Beltway Villager, concerned with retaining his access to the cocktail party circuit, clueless, lazy and repeating whatever the meme of the day is for the Village.
Love the Twilight ref!
Gah, Twilight did a huge freaking disservice to my people...
:(
| 490 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:51:52pm |
re: #481 WindUpBird
Amy Goodman, drier than dry toast. The good liberal shows like Stephanie Miller do just fine, the bad ones fell by the wayside. Like Al Franken's show. I know everyone he has a giant hate-on for Al Franken, but the guy is smart as a whip. he's an AWFUL broadcaster though, his show was unlistenable.
Now, this Righty used to listen to Stephanie Miller when I lived in Beantown. She was a funny lady, she had a good show, politics aside.
| 491 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:52:11pm |
re: #480 windsagio
re: #473 Walter L. Newton
If you had a fun way to reference Time Cube, wouldn't you?
Don't read too much into that, it wasn't intended, and I apologize that it came off that way (with hindsight I can see how it did)
My point to FG was "Effort doesn't automatically make you correct". I put in Time Cube because its classic internet funny, not as a dig at Walter.
If effort made you correct, imagine the stunningly weird flying machines we would have made!
"This is a gigantic canvas corkscrew flying apparatus with spider-legs that I made, and it floats through the air, with a mustachioed man in a dapper suit powering it with a penny-farthing we have defly attached to its drivetrain."
| 492 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:52:21pm |
re: #488 albusteve
Thats totally why he's pushing for Health Care reform... because its the politically smart thing to do :p
| 493 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:52:41pm |
re: #477 WindUpBird
Is effort more important than facts?
The facts are stated in that essay, but Ian Harris. I don't know what can be more clear.
And if you search around the internet, you will not find any challenge to the fact that the harry_read_me documents is not totally authentic.
So, you have the notes of the man who was tasked with creating CRU TS 3.0, the notes that indicated that the legacy programs that were used to create the former versions of that data base were flawed and you deny that what he has recounted in his notes are not facts.
Ian Harris still works for CRU. He has not denied anything, no one has. It's fact. Plain and simple.
| 494 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:53:05pm |
| 495 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:53:10pm |
BBL
Walter ,,, good job
Charles ,,, thanks for letting him
| 496 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:53:16pm |
re: #481 WindUpBird
Amy Goodman, drier than dry toast. The good liberal shows like Stephanie Miller do just fine, the bad ones fell by the wayside. Like Al Franken's show. I know everyone he has a giant hate-on for Al Franken, but the guy is smart as a whip. he's an AWFUL broadcaster though, his show was unlistenable.
Amy's great, she is quite boring though if you're not interested in her opinion.
That's really the difference, Fox News is all showmanship. If entertainment is more important to people than news when they are watching... uh, NEWS... we're in a pretty sad state.
| 498 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:53:45pm |
NPR reported on this 'who's the moonbat, who's the wingnut' European economy story this evening. The Germans recently upped their retirement age to 67, and are not happy about bailing out Greek banks, while the Greeks are unhappy about possibly raising their retirement age to 63.
Greek drama fails to stir bruised Germans
Why are Germans so reluctant to assist? After all, Germany embraced the European project, the whole idea of a European Union. Whatever happened to solidarity? What is wrong with bailing out a fellow member state in need?From the point of view of the German public, everything.
First, it is a question of principle. Germans are generally frugal, they are used to living within their means. Many here ask: Why should they have to bail out a country like Greece, which has been so profligate and racked up massive debt?
Greek unions strike against austerity plan
...traffic controllers, customs and tax officials, hospital doctors and schoolteachers walked off the job for 24 hours to protest sweeping government spending cuts that will freeze salaries and new hiring, cut bonuses and stipends and increase the average retirement age by two years to 63.
| 499 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:53:57pm |
re: #478 Guanxi88
Well, I never thought of them as anything other or more than a sort of Westboro Baptist Church of the anti-war movement. I had - and continue to have - a bit of fun at their expense, but that's about the extent of it.
I'd imagine it's not too awfully difficult to get together a group of up to 1000 people for any cause, no matter how crazed or transparently goofy.
Especially if you let Rep. Bachmann count the crowd.
| 500 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:54:12pm |
re: #481 WindUpBird
I think Al Franken is smart, also. I look forward to watching his career in the Senate. Stephanie Miller is a hoot and at least Ed Schultz gets mad.
My super librul mama is off Miss Goodman at the moment for her criticism of President Obama.
| 501 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:54:48pm |
re: #497 Dark_Falcon
lol, mmhmm.
The funny thing is that Jamesfirecat and I had a conversation about using absurdist examples above. Miss that?
| 502 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:55:02pm |
re: #499 Decatur Deb
Especially if you let Rep. Bachmann count the crowd.
She's counting in base 2; it's not that hard to grasp, really.
| 503 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:55:49pm |
re: #483 Guanxi88
You get the feeling, at least with her, that she's about the last person you'd want to have a drink with. Gimme a brawling, loud, fun-loving guy (or gal) and, politics aside, i can at least listen to him or her, provided he or she is bright.
So, when did we have that drink?/
| 504 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:55:50pm |
re: #472 Varek Raith
You aren't seriously comparing Walter's essay to...TimeCube, are you???
???
gah. He's taking issue with the fact that mere effort somehow increases your standing and makes your argument more virtuous. Do I need to put more effort into an argument for someone to take me seriously, even when I obviously have facts and expertise on my side? I suspect this is why Ludwig often becomes frustrated here.
I understand EXACTLY what Windsagio is saying, i think most people do as well, but there's all this OMG FALSE OUTRAGE. I'm not some genius, the point was made over and over that effort does not equal correctness.
The everyone-race-to-the-outrage thing, man, it gets kinda old. and now I'm going to GET EDUCATED STUPID IN THE 24 HOUR TIME CUBE REVOLVE REVOLVE
| 505 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:55:55pm |
re: #476 prairiefire
actually they tried to go big time from jump street,instead of starting small and building a following.(a tried and true recipe for failure and disaster.see the WFL(both of them) the usfl,the xfl etc.) Not to mention some of their folks were not really radio people.
| 506 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:56:08pm |
re: #478 Guanxi88
Well, I never thought of them as anything other or more than a sort of Westboro Baptist Church of the anti-war movement. I had - and continue to have - a bit of fun at their expense, but that's about the extent of it.
I'd imagine it's not too awfully difficult to get together a group of up to 1000 people for any cause, no matter how crazed or transparently goofy.
Their leftist leanings don't even compare to the counterpart mentioned. In the beginning they were just a quirky anti-war group, 99.9% older women who wanted to stir public awareness. With respect to the left side of things, getting 1000 people together probably isn't too hard to accomplish. On the flip side though, it is quite the effort to get about 100-200 pro-Israel people to show up, at least here in the San Francisco Bay Area.
| 507 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:56:30pm |
re: #492 windsagio
Thats totally why he's pushing for Health Care reform... because its the politically smart thing to do :p
totally wrong approach to let Pelosi write it...but then again BO has never written any legislation...he got what he paid for, a terrible bill...he doesn't lead, he hands off..and now Pelosi is publicly criticizing him....he's very stupid and is in a world of hurt, the same hurt his supporters deny
| 508 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:56:31pm |
re: #496 Vambo
Amy's great, she is quite boring though if you're not interested in her opinion.
That's really the difference, Fox News is all showmanship. If entertainment is more important to people than news when they are watching... uh, NEWS... we're in a pretty sad state.
I'm interested in her opinion, I'd just rather read it than listen to it. My standards for tlak radio are very high, ergo I can currently only listen to Phil Hendrie. :D
| 509 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:56:46pm |
re: #503 prairiefire
So, when did we have that drink?/
Hard to say. I drank so much, for so very long, with so very many folk, I sorta lost track.
If I missed you - and I didn't miss many in my carousing days - I'll hoist a Lone Star in your honor this evening.
| 510 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:57:15pm |
| 511 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:57:25pm |
re: #507 albusteve
that's a bit offpoint. Are you agreeing that it was impolitic of him to pursue it?
| 513 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:57:43pm |
re: #496 Vambo
Amy's great, she is quite boring though if you're not interested in her opinion.
That's really the difference, Fox News is all showmanship. If entertainment is more important to people than news when they are watching... uh, NEWS... we're in a pretty sad state.
Yeah, that's what the Daily Show is for!
| 514 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:58:30pm |
re: #504 WindUpBird
I'm not outraged by anything on this thread, tonight. I am, however, tired of the snarkiness and insults instead of actual debate. I may disagree with Walter's essay, but I sure as hell see no reason to insult him.
Clear?
| 515 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:58:55pm |
re: #510 Racer X
That four-year retirement discrepancy would bug me.
| 516 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:59:05pm |
| 517 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:59:05pm |
| 518 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:59:13pm |
re: #154 Vambo
Richard John Neuhaus spent quantity time on both sides of the right/left divide during his career. As a young Lutheran clergyman in the 60s he was active in the civil rights and anti-war movement. After becoming disillusioned with the Left in the 70s, he tacked Right and later became a Catholic priest. I didn't give any indication, so there's no way you could have known, but hope this helps.
| 519 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:59:30pm |
re: #501 windsagio
lol, mmhmm.
The funny thing is that Jamesfirecat and I had a conversation about using absurdist examples above. Miss that?
Yes, I did.
| 520 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:59:51pm |
re: #484 iceweasel
ACK!twilight...grumble...time was vampires were supposed to be evil creatures of the night...then ann rice turned them into the high school girls gay friend....
old man cane waving rant over)
| 521 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:00:23pm |
| 522 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:01:00pm |
re: #514 Varek Raith
Its one of those things where it never occurred to me that anyone would actually think I was calling Walter crazy. Live and learn I guess.
I do find it odd, that you didn't mind so much what I said above, but got angry over that.
| 523 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:01:42pm |
re: #522 windsagio
Its one of those things where it never occurred to me that anyone would actually think I was calling Walter crazy. Live and learn I guess.
I do find it odd, that you didn't mind so much what I said above, but got angry over that.
Which post? I'm missing quite a bit tonight, apparently.
| 524 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:02:18pm |
re: #518 The Sanity Inspector
Richard John Neuhaus spent quantity time on both sides of the right/left divide during his career. As a young Lutheran clergyman in the 60s he was active in the civil rights and anti-war movement. After becoming disillusioned with the Left in the 70s, he tacked Right and later became a Catholic priest. I didn't give any indication, so there's no way you could have known, but hope this helps.
thanks. His post-70s bias shows in that quote. Maybe it was a different time when he made it, but there's no question the right wing is leading the cult of beyondism in 2010.
| 525 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:02:36pm |
| 526 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:02:40pm |
re: #523 Varek Raith
over a few. I'd rather start that all over again, but trust me its worse :P
(280 for one, since you asked)
| 527 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:03:22pm |
re: #522 windsagio
Its one of those things where it never occurred to me that anyone would actually think I was calling Walter crazy. Live and learn I guess.
I do find it odd, that you didn't mind so much what I said above, but got angry over that.
a lot goes over your head
| 528 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:03:50pm |
re: #527 albusteve
A gratuitous insult! Nobody's ever given me one of those before! Updinged for originality.
| 529 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:03:58pm |
re: #520 Boondock St. Bender
ACK!twilight...grumble...time was vampires were supposed to be evil creatures of the night...then ann rice turned them into the high school girls gay friend...
old man cane waving rant over)
Yeah! But I love Buffy, so...
Read this piece on Twilight kind of recently. The author is a bit of a nut, I think, (I think I've run across some other pieces by her in the past) but this really creeped me out:
Meyers continues this miseducation of our youth by having her teen heroine, Bella (yes, the heroine’s name is Bella and she’s beautiful) wait till she’s married to have sex. Of course, Bella wants to have sex before she marries her vampire boyfriend Edward, BUT sex with her vampire boyfriend will KILL her since he’s so super powerful and she’s just a weak, delicate flower. When the two are finally married, right after her high school graduation, they do have sex before she’s a vampire and it very nearly does kill her (there’s a lot of bruising and a down pillow torn to shreds by Edward in an effort not to rip her head off). Then (SPOILER ALERT) Bella becomes pregnant (have sex even once and…) and the baby is going to KILL her since it’s not fully human.
Abortion? No, never. She insists on having the baby no matter what. Oy vey. Could it get worse? Yes, because in the end, the baby is born, she dies and then is brought back to life, well, not life, but undeadness, as a vampire, the child, a girl, is perfect in every way and all who see her fall madly in love with her, and the “problem” of teen pregnancy, potentially deadly sexual acts, and marrying across class and species lines goes away.
Except for one thing: the daughter is immediately betrothed to her best friend, a werewolf by the name of Jacob. So a bit of bizarro pedophilia is thrown in just in case the sane parents reading this dreck with their children weren’t sufficiently grossed out by the crazy Christian messages about sex and pregnancy permeating the series.
Yikes.
| 530 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:04:05pm |
re: #526 windsagio
Yep, I missed those. Though, I see no need to get into what's already been gotten into.
:)
| 531 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:04:24pm |
re: #507 albusteve
totally wrong approach to let Pelosi write it...but then again BO has never written any legislation...he got what he paid for, a terrible bill...he doesn't lead, he hands off..and now Pelosi is publicly criticizing him...he's very stupid and is in a world of hurt, the same hurt his supporters deny
Yes how dare Obama expect the Legislative branch of the government to write its own laws to vote on, instead of having them cluster around his desk like a puppies waiting for table scraps for him to provide them with something to vote on!
| 532 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:04:26pm |
| 533 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:04:37pm |
You still owe Walter an apology.
re: #172 windsagio
I have to disagree with your main point.
He's being deeply dishonest. So deeply he might not even be able to admit it himself.
He can't directly go after AGW, so he's convinced himself that he's found a smoking gun... when he simply hasn't.
Beyond that, he just hasn't lived up to the claim he made for his essay, but he can't even admit that.
Whats the point if he's totally incapable of acting in good faith?
| 534 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:04:59pm |
re: #524 Vambo
nah the crazy left has just piped down lately...both sides(extreme right&left) are guilty of batshittery in the third degree.
| 535 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:05:03pm |
re: #529 iceweasel
I don't want to insult mormons, but those books are very very VERY mormon.
| 536 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:05:06pm |
re: #477 WindUpBird
Is effort more important than facts?
He had those too. It's the conclusion that's a bit lacking.
| 537 |
Unakite Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:05:20pm |
re: #325 windsagio
You know how it is, there's something that like it or not, you think is true.
In general, you keep it down because you know it won't be a popular position, and will get abuse heaped on you... Especially if you're talking about someone else whose a popular person.
The thing is, like it or not, that's what you feel is right... what's the solution?
That's bulls*t. Whether it's this thread or others (and not just you), it's not what you say but how you say it. And now you're getting all whiny and victimy.
| 538 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:05:27pm |
re: #528 windsagio
A gratuitous insult! Nobody's ever given me one of those before! Updinged for originality.
I was simply agreeing with you....
"Its one of those things where it never occurred to me"
| 539 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:05:38pm |
Racist conference canceled: American Renaissance: Death Threats End Biennial Conference of Controversial Group
Zealots opposed to a meeting to be held by a Virginia non-profit organization have bullied three hotels into cancelling the event, thus making it impossible for the group to hold its biennial conference. American Renaissance (AR), a monthly magazine that has published on race and immigration for 20 years, had scheduled its ninth biennial meeting for the weekend of Feb. 19 through 21.
Opponents then pressured the hotels -- leafleting the premises, flooding switchboards with phone calls, finding the home phone numbers of hotel employees and threatening them with death -- thus causing the hotels to cancel their contracts to hold the meeting. The last hotel canceled today. More than 250 people had registered for the conference, and guests and speakers were expected from as far away as Britain and South Africa.
American Renaissance has held conferences since 1994. There have been protesters and crank calls, but conferences have always taken place peacefully and successfully.
AR is a race-realist publication edited by Jared Taylor that takes controversial positions:
* That diversity is a source of conflict and not a strength.
* That people of all racial groups prefer the company of people like themselves.
* That Asians are, on average, more intelligent than whites, who are more intelligent than blacks.
This is the same conference Breitbart's undercover ACORN operative attended.
| 540 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:06:15pm |
re: #533 Racer X
I don't think I do. You can keep bringing it up, but unless you come up with some utterly brilliant position, I'm not going to change my position on that.
/I'll just go back to not mentioning how I feel.
| 541 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:06:17pm |
| 542 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:06:49pm |
| 543 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:07:11pm |
re: #537 Unakite
That's bulls*t. Whether it's this thread or others (and not just you), it's not what you say but how you say it. And now you're getting all whiny and victimy.
I was the one who was suppose to play the victim I posted the essay.
| 544 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:07:21pm |
Walter, you have presented convincing evidence that CRU negligently used and relied upon significant amounts of flawed data over a period of many years, and that the problems were not isolated but rather were systemic.
IMO you have raised a prima facie case that CRU's credibility has been seriously compromised.
Good job!
| 545 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:07:41pm |
re: #539 Killgore Trout
race-realist
Now there's a real stretch.
| 546 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:08:06pm |
re: #537 Unakite
heh, I'd love to see a nice way to say that.
| 547 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:08:09pm |
| 548 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:08:11pm |
re: #529 iceweasel
wow and i thought explaining anime storylines sounded insane....
| 549 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:08:48pm |
re: #535 windsagio
I don't want to insult mormons, but those books are very very VERY mormon.
Really?
I don't recall Edward having a harem of different lady loves at the same time, what with Bella being is 1 TRWE LUV and all....
Sorry it's just when I hear mormons I think Polygamy
Oh and "Where my sons of Ham at?"
| 550 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:09:03pm |
re: #543 Walter L. Newton
I was the one who was suppose to play the victim I posted the essay.
You are many things, Walter, but you're never a victim. You're too willing to stand up and fight to enjoy martyr cookies. That's a good trait in a man. Chicks dig it, or so I'm told.
| 551 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:09:40pm |
re: #547 Varek Raith
Nuke 'em from orbit.
/
Quick! To the stairs and into the command module for immediate lift-off!
/
| 552 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:09:46pm |
re: #549 jamesfirecat
Really?
I don't recall Edward having a harem of different lady loves at the same time, what with Bella being is 1 TRWE LUV and all...
Sorry it's just when I hear mormons I think Polygamy
Oh and "Where my sons of Ham at?"
You are going to be a font of endless amusement.
| 553 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:09:54pm |
re: #544 Spare O'Lake
Walter, you have presented convincing evidence that CRU negligently used and relied upon significant amounts of flawed data over a period of many years, and that the problems were not isolated but rather were systemic.
IMO you have raised a prima facie case that CRU's credibility has been seriously compromised.
Good job!
Thanks. (my girlfriend and I are laughing our asses off. When I saw your nice comment I suggested to her that I should stay in character and tell you "FU." She smacked me)
| 554 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:10:25pm |
re: #539 Killgore Trout
sound like some reeaaal nice folks....on some education is wasted.
| 555 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:10:34pm |
re: #543 Walter L. Newton
I was the one who was suppose to play the victim I posted the essay.
some empty headed people will try and use you to promote their own ego....it's just blog vanity...good job nevertheless...it's always the people that put zero effort into a subject that criticize the most....some good examples here tonight
| 556 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:10:41pm |
re: #545 jaunte
There's also an important reminder in there as to why Michelle Malkin aligns with racist sites like VDARE. Many racists consider Asians to be among the superior races.
| 557 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:10:50pm |
| 558 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:10:55pm |
re: #552 Decatur Deb
You are going to be a font of endless amusement.
Do you mean that in a good way or in a Court Jester way?
| 559 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:10:56pm |
| 560 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:10:56pm |
re: #549 jamesfirecat
There's a ton of things, I'll dig up the analysis somewhere... Or actually I might ask you to excuse me. The way things are going tonight, I don't need to insult a major religion as well :p
| 561 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:11:06pm |
re: #543 Walter L. Newton
walter where is it posted(got here late)
| 562 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:11:08pm |
re: #544 Spare O'Lake
Walter, you have presented convincing evidence that CRU negligently used and relied upon significant amounts of flawed data over a period of many years, and that the problems were not isolated but rather were systemic.
IMO you have raised a prima facie case that CRU's credibility has been seriously compromised.
Good job!
Then I was just a accident that the "flawed" data followed the rest of the data sets ?
| 563 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:11:16pm |
| 564 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:11:28pm |
Another good political story from NPR this evening: (4 min. audio)
Terrorism Trials Pose Dilemma For U.S.
The Obama administration wants to try captured terrorism suspects in civilian court. Although administration officials continue to criticize the use of military tribunals, they want to keep that option open for al-Qaida operatives such as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. That would be a reversal from Attorney General Eric Holder's announcement that Mohammed would be tried in a civilian court near Ground Zero.
| 565 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:11:45pm |
re: #561 Boondock St. Bender
walter where is it posted(got here late)
It's posted over several comments.
I had to do a search for Walter L. Newton, from the top, and found them fairly quickly.
| 566 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:11:58pm |
re: #488 albusteve
BO is centrist where he has no political option, otherwise he's hard core left...he's learning as he goes with regard to Bush's policies...his campaign said otherwise with regard to Gitmo, investigations into waterboarding etc...he stands for nothing, but just blows whatever way is politically profitable...if he re-runs you will hear the same pandering all over again
Um, the left consists of groups descended from the 4th International. Obama has nothing to do with that. As a movement it's almost dead in the US. I was a member of Trotskyist group in college but it was ultimately a waste of time.
I really think it's inaccurate to call any non-revolutionary organization "leftist."
| 567 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:12:12pm |
re: #557 Gus 802
[Video]Doug Fieger, RIP
Wheee! Love it!
This is making me want to post something else....I feel a shrieking harpy moment coming on!
| 568 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:12:26pm |
re: #556 Killgore Trout
There's also an important reminder in there as to why Michelle Malkin aligns with racist sites like VDARE. Many racists consider Asians to be among the superior races.
What's Malkin's excuse?
/
| 569 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:12:27pm |
re: #558 jamesfirecat
Do you mean that in a good way or in a Court Jester way?
In a roller-skater-in-the-minefield way.
| 570 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:12:49pm |
re: #563 eclectic infidel
he's certainly an aggressive one >>
| 571 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:12:54pm |
re: #559 Dark_Falcon
Don't you usually prefer to use a superlaser?
Sure, though, I nuke 'em first then superlaser them. Then use the sun crusher on their star. Then use a series of P.S.Ps to annihilate the remains of the system.
/Damn, that's a lot of Dark Side Points gained...
| 572 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:13:09pm |
re: #544 Spare O'Lake
Walter, you have presented convincing evidence that CRU negligently used and relied upon significant amounts of flawed data over a period of many years, and that the problems were not isolated but rather were systemic.
IMO you have raised a prima facie case that CRU's credibility has been seriously compromised.
Good job!
And to piggyback on your comment, CRU and the University of East Anglia also admit that there is a problem and they are intending to make an inquiry.
If there is no problem, what's up with that?
| 573 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:13:27pm |
re: #556 Killgore Trout
There's also an important reminder in there as to why Michelle Malkin aligns with racist sites like VDARE. Many racists consider Asians to be among the superior races.
of all the people that are involved in this lunatic movement, MM mystifies me the most...proof that anything can happen, and probably will...I don't care about all the others but she has been a huge disappointment
| 574 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:14:01pm |
re: #567 iceweasel
Wheee! Love it!
This is making me want to post something else...I feel a shrieking harpy moment coming on!
Quick! Scour the headlines! Check Drudge! There must be an update on Michelle Obama's garden!111!!1
| 575 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:14:20pm |
re: #561 Boondock St. Bender
walter where is it posted(got here late)
Up thread or read or download it here.
Download this essay in PDF format
Download Ian Harris' 314 pages of programmers notes in PDF format
| 576 |
Unakite Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:14:24pm |
re: #344 jamesfirecat
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."
It says it right there at the top one of the ways to change the constitution starts with a 2/3rds vote in both houses of "the Congress" like I said back in my original post.
So Mandy why did you say the Congress couldn't amend the Constitution?
Probably late to this party, but you need to read what you wrote. There is a difference between proposing an amendment to the Constitution and actually amending the Constitution.
| 577 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:14:52pm |
re: #572 Walter L. Newton
it goes back to the same question, 'were the conclusions accurate or not?' The impression seems to be, whatever the stuff with the programming meant, it didn't hae a meaningful result on the results.
//damn, I said I'd go bakc to something. I'll go now and search up above to try to find it.
| 578 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:14:54pm |
What are we talking about?
(Just got back from a long phone call with my old girlfriend (rich, too!) who wants me to move to Mexico with her.)
| 579 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:16:29pm |
re: #566 Conservative Moonbat
Um, the left consists of groups descended from the 4th International. Obama has nothing to do with that. As a movement it's almost dead in the US. I was a member of Trotskyist group in college but it was ultimately a waste of time.
I really think it's inaccurate to call any non-revolutionary organization "leftist."
I've been called worse by far...wordiness and verbage impresses me not...the left is what it is...not the center or right, pretty simple
| 580 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:17:05pm |
re: #578 Cato the Elder
What are we talking about?
(Just got back from a long phone call with my old girlfriend (rich, too!) who wants me to move to Mexico with her.)
You're a lucky man, Cato, to attract high-end women like that.
| 581 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:17:05pm |
re: #576 Unakite
Probably late to this party, but you need to read what you wrote. There is a difference between proposing an amendment to the Constitution and actually amending the Constitution.
Yeah that's been pointed out to me, my bad.
| 582 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:17:17pm |
re: #374 jamesfirecat
Okay gotcha.
This has been my down dinging learning moment of the day brought to me by the letters "S" for State and "L" for Legislature along with the number -1!
Can you tell me how to get... how to get to Ell F Geee?
I could do that.
But it isn't nice to be that mean.
And, well, to be honest, I don't think you're capable, or interested in learning much, anyway.
| 583 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:17:21pm |
there it is:
This statement is misleading "There is no indication whatsoever of any problem with the CRU data."
CRU produces a whole suite of data bases. CRUTEM is one of many. My discussion was in regards to CRU TS 3.0 which Harris was tasked with to create a new version by Dec. 2009.
Except for the fact that the CRU Time Slice data base feed some data to CRUTEM, it's not the same data base.
I have not done any research on CRUTEM.
See my essay above.
How about we talk about the project that Ian was working on, the project that is the body of my essay.
You are deflecting to another subject.
I think the point that Obdi was making is that the data is inline with what it should be, and with other data sets, and thus presumably correct.
Since the original point was to show that programming errors was leading to incorrect data, this would seem to refute that point.
| 584 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:17:42pm |
| 585 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:17:50pm |
re: #580 Dark_Falcon
You're a lucky man, Cato, to attract high-end women like that.
It's that Bondesque car he was cruising around in!
| 586 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:18:05pm |
re: #570 windsagio
he's certainly an aggressive one >>
a real beast eh?...you are someone else's poodle...I speak for myself
| 587 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:18:23pm |
re: #571 Varek Raith
Sure, though, I nuke 'em first then superlaser them. Then use the sun crusher on their star. Then use a series of P.S.Ps to annihilate the remains of the system.
/Damn, that's a lot of Dark Side Points gained...
Number of DS points: ELEVENTY!!!11111
| 588 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:18:37pm |
re: #582 Floral Giraffe
I could do that.
But it isn't nice to be that mean.
And, well, to be honest, I don't think you're capable, or interested in learning much, anyway.
Insult my capability if you wish, but never, EVER say I don't have an interest in learning more!
| 590 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:18:48pm |
re: #578 Cato the Elder
What are we talking about?
(Just got back from a long phone call with my old girlfriend (rich, too!) who wants me to move to Mexico with her.)
go...then invite me down
| 591 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:19:13pm |
re: #578 Cato the Elder
cato!by the by...good to have you back! so when you moving to mexico?
| 592 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:19:48pm |
re: #573 albusteve
She always seemed a little rabid to me.
| 593 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:19:51pm |
re: #580 Dark_Falcon
You're a lucky man, Cato, to attract high-end women like that.
he's got a big....intellect or whatever she calls it
| 594 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:20:02pm |
re: #578 Cato the Elder
What are we talking about?
(Just got back from a long phone call with my old girlfriend (rich, too!) who wants me to move to Mexico with her.)
The one caution I'd give you is the situation down in Mexico right now.
| 595 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:20:06pm |
re: #578 Cato the Elder
What are we talking about?
(Just got back from a long phone call with my old girlfriend (rich, too!) who wants me to move to Mexico with her.)
What does Haku think?
| 596 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:20:24pm |
re: #587 Dark_Falcon
Number of DS points: ELEVENTY!!!11111
Hmm, did the Galactic Alliance have weapons that 'fired' black holes (PSP) at their targets? I know the Vong used them for defense and propulsion..
| 597 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:20:46pm |
re: #562 avanti
Then I was just a accident that the "flawed" data followed the rest of the data sets ?
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Let me lay it out like this.
1) CRU has programs that create data about climate and temperature, program they have been using since the 1990's.
2) Ian Harris takes over as the chief programmer in 2006, data modeler, IT guy and is tasked with creating a new version of the CRU Time Slice data base.
3) He tries to do it, finds that the programs that have been being used since the 90's are faulty.
4) He spends until Dec. 2009 trying to fix the programs and create the CRU TS 3.0 data base.
5) He finally creates the database, starts sending it our, and even after that, scientist are noticing problems with the data.
Before Ian came along, the CRU was spitting out bad data in some form or another.
That was my contention and and Ian Harris' notes prove that.
| 598 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:21:06pm |
re: #566 Conservative Moonbat
Um, the left consists of groups descended from the 4th International. Obama has nothing to do with that. As a movement it's almost dead in the US. I was a member of Trotskyist group in college but it was ultimately a waste of time.
I really think it's inaccurate to call any non-revolutionary organization "leftist."
You're applying a clinically tight definition. I've always considered myself leftist, and have only voted for a bland US socialist once or twice.
| 599 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:21:40pm |
re: #592 Killgore Trout
She always seemed a little rabid to me.
well it's over now for her...I am an Army of One and she no longer serves me....how's that?
| 600 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:22:03pm |
re: #579 albusteve
I've been called worse by far...wordiness and verbage impresses me not...the left is what it is...not the center or right, pretty simple
what's the center?
| 601 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:22:40pm |
re: #599 albusteve
well it's over now for her...I am an Army of One and she no longer serves me...how's that?
You know, I picture you as Duke Nukem now.
:)
| 602 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:22:40pm |
re: #585 Varek Raith
It's that Bondesque car he was cruising around in!
Not just Bondesque - the Jag I was driving is built on the same frame as the Aston-Martin.
| 603 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:23:06pm |
re: #578 Cato the Elder
What are we talking about?
(Just got back from a long phone call with my old girlfriend (rich, too!) who wants me to move to Mexico with her.)
Hasta la vista, baby.
| 604 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:23:16pm |
re: #602 Cato the Elder
Not just Bondesque - the Jag I was driving is built on the same frame as the Aston-Martin.
Sweet.
| 605 |
Unakite Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:23:17pm |
re: #391 MandyManners
Since I was 17, I've had one copy or another of the U.S. Constitution on my desk. Do you have one? If not, please get one.
How many different copies are there?
//
| 606 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:23:17pm |
| 607 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:23:22pm |
re: #574 Gus 802
Quick! Scour the headlines! Check Drudge! There must be an update on Michelle Obama's garden!111!!1
Damn. I was thinking of that horrible video where Pammycakes and her two daughters danced and sang along to My Sharona-- "My Sharia". Lyrics by the shrieking harpy herself.
Alas, she seems to have thought better of it and scrubbed it from the internets. :(
| 608 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:23:34pm |
re: #597 Walter L. Newton
Before Ian came along, the CRU was spitting out bad data in some form or another.
You have not shown this to be true.
| 609 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:24:10pm |
re: #601 Varek Raith
You know, I picture you as Duke Nukem now.
:)
your ass, your face...what's the difference?
Duke
| 610 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:24:21pm |
re: #552 Decatur Deb
You are going to be a font of endless amusement.
I just HAVE to quote that!
For the entertainment value!
LOL!
| 611 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:24:27pm |
re: #598 Decatur Deb
You're applying a clinically tight definition. I've always considered myself leftist, and have only voted for a bland US socialist once or twice.
I know. It just annoys me to hear people bitch and moan about leftists when the people in question are center to center right (like Obama).
| 612 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:24:30pm |
re: #597 Walter L. Newton
I think we're at the crux of the disagreement.
You've shown how potential errors could cause flawed data.
The results (unless they're all fixed, and I trust nobody is saying that) show no meaningful variation...
The problem is the leap from 'could' to 'does'.
| 613 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:24:46pm |
| 614 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:25:20pm |
| 615 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:25:30pm |
re: #595 Gus 802
What does Haku think?
As long as it's High Mexico (= snow in winter) he's fine with it. And he loves Kate.
| 616 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:25:38pm |
re: #586 albusteve
a real beast eh?...you are someone else's poodle...I speak for myself
I really really wanna know. Whose poodle?
Do I get to start guessing? :D
| 617 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:25:41pm |
re: #558 jamesfirecat
Do you mean that in a good way or in a Court Jester way?
OMG.
Holding ribs, in , to keep them from breaking!
Do you not know?
OMG.
I guess, not!
| 618 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:25:42pm |
re: #607 iceweasel
Damn. I was thinking of that horrible video where Pammycakes and her two daughters danced and sang along to My Sharona-- "My Sharia". Lyrics by the shrieking harpy herself.
Alas, she seems to have thought better of it and scrubbed it from the internets. :(
Oh, that. Nothing more pathetic than wingnuts trying to be cool. That's basically defacing the song. That woman has Islam Derangement Syndrome.
| 619 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:26:04pm |
re: #583 windsagio
there it is:
I think the point that Obdi was making is that the data is inline with what it should be, and with other data sets, and thus presumably correct.
Since the original point was to show that programming errors was leading to incorrect data, this would seem to refute that point.
I will say it one more time, In 2006 Harris was tasked with creating CRU TS version 3.0. He tried to use the programs that were used to create version of CRU TS 1.0 onward and he found that the programs spit out bad data.
That would mean that the programs, spitting out data that was use to create CRU TS 1.0 onward, before 2006, were faulty.
That's what Ian is complaining about, the sad state of the existing databases.
“OH FUCK THIS. It's Sunday evening, I've worked all weekend, and just when I thought it was done I'm hitting yet another problem that's based on the hopeless state of our databases. There is no uniform data integrity, it's just a catalogue of issues that continues to grow as they're found.”
As he said "hopeless state of our databases. There is no uniformed data integrity."
As a programmer myself, that simple statement is scary.
| 620 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:26:32pm |
re: #611 Conservative Moonbat
I know. It just annoys me to hear people bitch and moan about leftists when the people in question are center to center right (like Obama).
I know he's a centrist, because he's starting to tick me off. (Wife is far more ticked.)
| 621 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:27:13pm |
re: #562 avanti
Then I was just a accident that the "flawed" data followed the rest of the data sets ?
Do you know for a fact that the original flawed data was retained in its original form and was not materially incorrect?
| 622 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:27:17pm |
re: #602 Cato the Elder
Not just Bondesque - the Jag I was driving is built on the same frame as the Aston-Martin.
and the Austin Healey 3000....really fast and really tight, they are glued to the ground with brakes so huge you need to decompress when you slam them on....big fun
| 623 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:27:18pm |
re: #578 Cato the Elder
What are we talking about?
(Just got back from a long phone call with my old girlfriend (rich, too!) who wants me to move to Mexico with her.)
Is this a former girlfriend, or a girlfriend who is old?
And is this an offer you can't refuse?
Inquiring minds are desperate to know.
| 624 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:27:29pm |
re: #612 windsagio
I think we're at the crux of the disagreement.
You've shown how potential errors could cause flawed data.
The results (unless they're all fixed, and I trust nobody is saying that) show no meaningful variation...
The problem is the leap from 'could' to 'does'.
I think any dataset of that size is going to contain errors introduced from somewhere or another.
I tried to bring up the point earlier that the physical weather stations are far more likely to introduce bad data than code errors.
| 625 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:27:56pm |
re: #608 Charles
You have not shown this to be true.
I can only quote Harris...
“OH FUCK THIS. It's Sunday evening, I've worked all weekend, and just when I thought it was done I'm hitting yet another problem that's based on the hopeless state of our databases. There is no uniform data integrity, it's just a catalogue of issues that continues to grow as they're found.”
As a programmer, this is very clear to me.
| 626 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:28:05pm |
re: #607 iceweasel
Damn. I was thinking of that horrible video where Pammycakes and her two daughters danced and sang along to My Sharona-- "My Sharia". Lyrics by the shrieking harpy herself.
Alas, she seems to have thought better of it and scrubbed it from the internets. :(
Does she still have the video up where she is rolling around in the surf in her bikini?
| 627 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:28:35pm |
re: #625 Walter L. Newton
As a programmer, this is very clear to me.
As a programmer, it's clear to me that Harris was unhappy with the data he had to work with.
Nothing more.
| 628 |
Unakite Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:28:37pm |
re: #543 Walter L. Newton
I was the one who was suppose to play the victim I posted the essay.
I for one liked it, and I've never seen you play the victim.
| 629 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:28:39pm |
re: #597 Walter L. Newton
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Let me lay it out like this.
1) CRU has programs that create data about climate and temperature, program they have been using since the 1990's.
2) Ian Harris takes over as the chief programmer in 2006, data modeler, IT guy and is tasked with creating a new version of the CRU Time Slice data base.
3) He tries to do it, finds that the programs that have been being used since the 90's are faulty.
4) He spends until Dec. 2009 trying to fix the programs and create the CRU TS 3.0 data base.
5) He finally creates the database, starts sending it our, and even after that, scientist are noticing problems with the data.
Before Ian came along, the CRU was spitting out bad data in some form or another.
That was my contention and and Ian Harris' notes prove that.
My point is rather simple, did the CRU data have any real impact on the the overall data even during the earlier period ? From all I've seen, the CRU data did not disagree with with the other data sets to any large degree.
| 630 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:28:40pm |
re: #619 Walter L. Newton
argh; we're going around in circles now.
I understand what you're trying to say with your paper.
As a separate question, regardless of what Harris thinks, explain how their results are wrong, when the data seems to match.
| 631 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:29:16pm |
re: #618 Gus 802
have you actually read the lyrics to that song...kinda creepy
(pam is kinda creepy too....hi pammy!)
| 632 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:29:25pm |
re: #615 Cato the Elder
As long as it's High Mexico (= snow in winter) he's fine with it. And he loves Kate.
I was down at the border last week, and every high peak across the border had snow on it, and it was cold down there....furry dog weather
| 633 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:29:43pm |
re: #629 avanti
which of course implies that whatever problems there were either weren't significant or got repaired somewhere between Harris and the final out product.
| 634 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:29:54pm |
re: #612 windsagio
I think we're at the crux of the disagreement.
You've shown how potential errors could cause flawed data.
The results (unless they're all fixed, and I trust nobody is saying that) show no meaningful variation...
The problem is the leap from 'could' to 'does'.
No... Ian makes it clear what condition the data is in.
“Am I the first person to attempt to get the CRU databases in working order?!!”
| 635 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:30:17pm |
re: #623 reine.de.tout
Is this a former girlfriend, or a girlfriend who is old?
And is this an offer you can't refuse?
Inquiring minds are desperate to know.
1) former, but fast friends ever since
2) we're talking hacienda with separate wings, so each can do his/her own things
Refuse? Am I in a position?
| 636 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:30:50pm |
re: #610 Floral Giraffe
I just HAVE to quote that!
For the entertainment value!
LOL!
He will grow old and wise and dull someday.
| 637 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:31:06pm |
Austin Healey 3000...
Image: Austin_Healey_3000_red_vl.jpg
| 638 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:31:55pm |
re: #635 Cato the Elder
1) former, but fast friends ever since
2) we're talking hacienda with separate wings, so each can do his/her own things
Refuse? Am I in a position?
I dunno about your position.
(insert silly "in bed" addendum here).
But it does sound like a really good offer. If you don't want to go, put her in touch with me.
| 639 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:32:18pm |
re: #635 Cato the Elder
Just hold out for high speed internet.
| 640 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:32:40pm |
re: #635 Cato the Elder
will you have any income? Being dependant on someone can put a wear on a relationship (from both sides) really quickly.
| 641 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:32:53pm |
re: #637 albusteve
back in the seventies,early eighties,i got to watch one of those rust away next to my neighbors house.....very sad.
| 642 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:32:57pm |
re: #629 avanti
re: #630 windsagio
Which data base? Which one... CRUTEM, HADCRUT3, CRU TS 3.0, the NCEP/NCAR from Noaa? All these table relied on each other in some way or another.
Did you read my addendum. Harry fixed another data base that was in the hands of scientist and was faulty.
You have to give Ian “Harry” Harris a lot of credit. Evidently he has been responsible for cleaning up a lot of the mistakes that have existed in climate based datasets in the past. This little narrative represents some of his work with NCEP/NCAR Reanalysis. (National Centers for Environmental Prediction – NOAA - [Link: www.ncep.noaa.gov...]
[Link: www.cru.uea.ac.uk...]
1948-1957 Data Added (Ian Harris, 22 Jul 2008)
2007 Data Added (Ian Harris, 17 Apr 2008)
2006 Data Added (Ian Harris, 11 Mar 2007)
2005 Data Added (Ian Harris, 13 Jan 2006)
2004 Data Added (Ian Harris, 28 Nov 2005)
2003 Data Added (Ian Harris, 11 May 2004)
SURFACE TEMPERATURE ADDED (Ian Harris, 10 December 2003)
WARNING NOTE ADDED FOR SURFACE FLUX TEMPERATURES (Ian Harris, 10 December 2003)
ALL DATASETS UPDATED TO 2002 (Ian Harris, 23 June 2003)
LAND/SEA MASKS ADDED (Ian Harris, 16 December 2002)
Land/Sea Masks for regular and Gaussian grids have been added.
NEW WINDOW ONLINE (Ian Harris, 9 July 2002)
The new Quarter-Spherical Window (0N-90N; 90W-90E) is now in use (see table below).The old window data (here) has now been entirely replaced.
Please address any requests for new variables to me.
BAD DATA REPLACED (Ian Harris, 23 May 2002)
The TOVS Problem has been resolved and only corrected data appears on this site.Anyone wishing to access the old (potentially incorrect) data in order to evaluate the extent of the problem should contact me.
| 643 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:32:58pm |
re: #596 Varek Raith
Hmm, did the Galactic Alliance have weapons that 'fired' black holes (PSP) at their targets? I know the Vong used them for defense and propulsion..
No. The only time they used a non-standard weapon was to destroy a Yuuzen Vong worldship with Centerpoint Station's Starbuster. By necessity, an small star cluster was sent supernova in the process. The Starbuster is as destructive as the Suncrusher, but its immobile.
| 644 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:33:08pm |
re: #631 Boondock St. Bender
have you actually read the lyrics to that song...kinda creepy
(pam is kinda creepy too...hi pammy!)
Nah, never read those lyrics. Never will. I never really read anything from the Shrieking Harpy even during the height of the was on terror.
| 645 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:33:33pm |
re: #640 windsagio
will you have any income? Being dependant on someone can put a wear on a relationship (from both sides) really quickly.
jeez!
that's an awfully personal question!
My southern belle mother would've fainted dead away.
| 646 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:33:48pm |
OK, two things:
A) I am not a scientist - I'm Joe Nye the Language Guy with a special gift for spotting absurdity and mocking it to death.
B) From what I've observed in my lifetime, whenever someone says "the question is settled", it's 1. bullshit 2. lies 3. wishful thinking 4. political or 5. some combination of those.
Just sayin'.
| 647 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:34:29pm |
re: #643 Dark_Falcon
No. The only time they used a non-standard weapon was to destroy a Yuuzen Vong worldship with Centerpoint Station's Starbuster. By necessity, an small star cluster was sent supernova in the process. The Starbuster is as destructive as the Suncrusher, but its immobile.
Ah, thanks. So they used Centerpoint. I read that trilogy years ago.
:)
| 648 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:34:34pm |
re: #619 Walter L. Newton
What you can't answer is HOW MUCH VARIATION in the final results did the bad data cause? Climate research isn't like trying to land a probe on mars where one faulty calculation can mean disaster for the whole prject. It's about variation in large sets of data over a long period of time. Outliers can be found and corrected for algorithmically. It's all about averages.
If the bad data resulted in in various calculations being off by a few hundredths of a percent, it doesn't matter that much.
You can't really say anything meaningful with your findings until you can state the DEGREE of error that was introduced.
| 649 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:34:46pm |
re: #644 Gus 802
nooo the lyrics to "my sharonna"(i'm sure the her version was ready for a straight jacket)
| 650 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:35:21pm |
re: #642 Walter L. Newton
Anyone wishing to access the old (POTENTIALLY INCORRECT) data in order to evaluate the extent of the problem should contact me.
Italicized and caps'd for emphasis.
| 651 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:35:35pm |
re: #641 Boondock St. Bender
back in the seventies,early eighties,i got to watch one of those rust away next to my neighbors house...very sad.
one of my best friends in HS had a 67...it was like two years old at the time....I drove it alot...to see a 3000 go to the dogs is criminal, but I'm easily provoked when it come to vintage cars...or buildings
| 652 |
Unakite Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:35:40pm |
re: #581 jamesfirecat
Yeah that's been pointed out to me, my bad.
Sorry, I was way behind and catching up. No intention to pile on. :)
| 653 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:36:04pm |
| 654 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:36:11pm |
re: #645 reine.de.tout
heh he doesn't have to tell me, but he should ask himself :P
Otherwise its a good way to lose a friend and be stuck in freakin' mexico.
| 655 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:36:50pm |
re: #652 Unakite
Sorry, I was way behind and catching up. No intention to pile on. :)
Its okay,it was my fault to start with.
| 656 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:36:57pm |
re: #649 Boondock St. Bender
nooo the lyrics to "my sharonna"(i'm sure the her version was ready for a straight jacket)
Oh, that one. Never really payed much attention to the lyrics. I see now what you're referring to. I've listened to blue lyrics in the past before and some of them are rather wild.
| 658 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:37:13pm |
re: #648 Conservative Moonbat
What you can't answer is HOW MUCH VARIATION in the final results did the bad data cause? Climate research isn't like trying to land a probe on mars where one faulty calculation can mean disaster for the whole prject. It's about variation in large sets of data over a long period of time. Outliers can be found and corrected for algorithmically. It's all about averages.
If the bad data resulted in in various calculations being off by a few hundredths of a percent, it doesn't matter that much.
You can't really say anything meaningful with your findings until you can state the DEGREE of error that was introduced.
Harris can...
“They aren't percentage anomalies! They are percentage anomalies /10. This could explain why the real data areas had variability 10x too low. BUT it shouldn't be - they should be regular percentage anomalies! This whole process is too convoluted and created myriad problems of this kind. I really think we should change it.”
One example. Read Ian Harris' narrative. He goes on about many algorithms and formulas that were written wrong.
Download Ian Harris' 314 pages of programmers notes in PDF format
| 659 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:37:26pm |
re: #651 albusteve
it was sad all it did was sit there (not even covered)slowly becoming more weatherbeaten.yeah,It deserved much better.
| 660 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:37:26pm |
re: #651 albusteve
one of my best friends in HS had a 67...it was like two years old at the time...I drove it alot...to see a 3000 go to the dogs is criminal, but I'm easily provoked when it come to vintage cars...or buildings
It drives me bonkers to see people pawn historical or extremely rare items of any kind. Especially swords...
| 661 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:38:11pm |
re: #635 Cato the Elder
1) former, but fast friends ever since
2) we're talking hacienda with separate wings, so each can do his/her own things
Refuse? Am I in a position?
I hope it's warm, in many ways of the word for you, and Haku the wonder dog. I hope it's lovely, and you enjoy the good times.
| 662 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:38:12pm |
| 663 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:38:39pm |
| 664 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:38:43pm |
re: #655 jamesfirecat
Its okay,it was my fault to start with.
good for you...that will go a long way here
| 665 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:39:20pm |
re: #658 Walter L. Newton
Also, seriously, you can't just keep linking to that PDF as if it totally proves your point. Doing that, especially with a long document is kind of a rhetorical trick.
re: #662 Walter L. Newton
so he fixed it? >>
I know I keep saying it but; "You're showing potential harm. You have failed to show any actual harm.
| 666 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:39:22pm |
re: #661 Floral Giraffe
I hope it's warm, in many ways of the word for you, and Haku the wonder dog. I hope it's lovely, and you enjoy the good times.
Quite Concur.
| 667 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:39:45pm |
re: #645 reine.de.tout
LOL!
My family's response would be
MYOB!
| 668 |
firstinla Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:39:47pm |
Thanks, Charles. Thanks, Walter. I'm never disappointed when I come to LGF: I always learn something new.
| 669 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:39:52pm |
re: #648 Conservative Moonbat
What you can't answer is HOW MUCH VARIATION in the final results did the bad data cause? Climate research isn't like trying to land a probe on mars where one faulty calculation can mean disaster for the whole prject. It's about variation in large sets of data over a long period of time. Outliers can be found and corrected for algorithmically. It's all about averages.
If the bad data resulted in in various calculations being off by a few hundredths of a percent, it doesn't matter that much.
You can't really say anything meaningful with your findings until you can state the DEGREE of error that was introduced.
And remember, most of the time Harris is talking about EXISTING LEGACY PROGRAMS and DATA BASES. Live, production programs and data. The stuff that was around from the 90's until he took over the programming duties in 2006.
That's a problem.
| 670 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:39:57pm |
| 671 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:40:03pm |
re: #640 windsagio
will you have any income? Being dependant on someone can put a wear on a relationship (from both sides) really quickly.
I would have my regular-irregular translation fees, same as anywhere I live.
She would have her trust fund.
You can by a lot with euros in Mexico.
| 672 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:40:55pm |
re: #671 Cato the Elder
lol point taken, and sorry if that was rude.
Just having been in a similar situation before (altho' not in Mexico), I can say confidently that it can lead to problems :)
| 673 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:40:55pm |
re: #660 Varek Raith
It drives me bonkers to see people pawn historical or extremely rare items of any kind. Especially swords...
I am especially nutty when it comes to cars...I love cars...with big engines that go fast and burn alot of gas...I'm like notGreen when it comes to vintage cars...
| 674 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:41:13pm |
re: #672 windsagio
oops just for you 'altho' bugs you I remember, repair to 'although'
| 675 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:41:26pm |
re: #651 albusteve
one of my best friends in HS had a 67...it was like two years old at the time...I drove it alot...to see a 3000 go to the dogs is criminal, but I'm easily provoked when it come to vintage cars...or buildings
I'm especially hard on those who run old buildings down. The good news is that Chicago has become hard on such folks too. One of the good things Richard M. Daley has done has been to see to it that a number of landmark building were designated as such and they are then held to maintenance standards.
| 676 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:41:37pm |
re: #665 windsagio
Also, seriously, you can't just keep linking to that PDF as if it totally proves your point. Doing that, especially with a long document is kind of a rhetorical trick.
re: #662 Walter L. Newton
so he fixed it? >>
I know I keep saying it but; "You're showing potential harm. You have failed to show any actual harm.
Yes I can, because there are 314 pages of notes which highlight the problems of the live production programs. If you are not interested in the notes, then you don't have to read it.
| 677 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:42:25pm |
re: #580 Dark_Falcon
You're a lucky man, Cato, to attract high-end women like that.
Tell that to Pam.
| 678 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:42:32pm |
You know, I pay Comcast up the wazoo for high speed internet, the least they could do is keep it freaking stable.
Ahem, excuse me.
/rant
| 679 |
Mich-again Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:42:47pm |
Interesting tidbit about the NYT regarding their coverage of the events in Afghanistan. link. Hmm. It wasn't too long ago when this would have been unthinkable for the grey lady. They actually sat on a story at the request of the WH? New administration, new ethics. They would have laughed if GWB's staff made this sort of request.
The New York Times learned of the operation on Thursday, but delayed reporting it at the request of White House officials, who contended that making it public would end a hugely successful intelligence-gathering effort. The officials said that the group’s leaders had been unaware of Mullah Baradar’s capture and that if it became public they might cover their tracks and become more careful about communicating with each other.
| 680 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:43:24pm |
re: #671 Cato the Elder
I would have my regular-irregular translation fees, same as anywhere I live.
She would have her trust fund.
You can by a lot with euros in Mexico.
still waiting for my invitation...I'm patient tho...hurry up!
| 681 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:43:30pm |
re: #671 Cato the Elder
Regardless of what you choose to do.
I hope you enjoy it to the fullest!
And, Haku, too.
| 682 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:44:09pm |
re: #676 Walter L. Newton
Yes I can, because there are 314 pages of notes which highlight the problems of the live production programs. If you are not interested in the notes, then you don't have to read it.
And not a single bit of it proves your contention that actual inaccurate data was produced.
| 683 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:44:22pm |
re: #625 Walter L. Newton
As a programmer, this is very clear to me.
Every read codinghorror or the daily wtf? Programmers have to deal with ancient Lovecraftian databases of the old ones that shall not be awakened every day. It's a common thing and I'm willing to bet pretty much every large dataset used for research purposes has inaccuracies introduced because of programmer error.
The question is if the error is enough to make any difference?
To me this just sounds like a taking on a new job complaining about his predecessor's shitty coding skills. It happens all the time.
| 684 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:44:24pm |
| 685 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:44:59pm |
re: #679 Mich-again
Didn't Judith Miller, who went to jail for Scooter Libby, work for the NYT? (Hint: Yes)
| 686 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:45:10pm |
re: #678 Varek Raith
You know, I pay Comcast up the wazoo for high speed internet, the least they could do is keep it freaking stable.
Ahem, excuse me.
/rant
Can you get DirecTV? Satellite comm is very reliable.
| 687 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:45:19pm |
I'm going to head off to bed in a few minutes, Have to be up at 5:00 am. Long five days of lugging furniture coming up.
And Charles, thanks for letting me post that.
| 688 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:45:20pm |
re: #681 Floral Giraffe
Regardless of what you choose to do.
I hope you enjoy it to the fullest!
And, Haku, too.
Love ya, Flo, you are always so sweet!
| 689 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:45:36pm |
re: #684 Varek Raith
But...but, what about Sarah?!?!
;)
She's inflatable, OR deflatable.
It depends...
| 690 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:45:42pm |
re: #673 albusteve
I am especially nutty when it comes to cars...I love cars...with big engines that go fast and burn alot of gas...I'm like notGreen when it comes to vintage cars...
Vintage cars are green. Production of a car requires about as much fossil energy as it will burn in its normal lifetime. My 1973 truck has prevented the production of about five replacement trucks.
| 691 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:45:55pm |
re: #679 Mich-again
It's good to see them helping a little with operational security.
| 692 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:46:07pm |
re: #675 Dark_Falcon
I'm especially hard on those who run old buildings down. The good news is that Chicago has become hard on such folks too. One of the good things Richard M. Daley has done has been to see to it that a number of landmark building were designated as such and they are then held to maintenance standards.
indeed and you can see it there...Denver has also done a wonderful job of keeping the old stuff around, it makes for a very stylish and historic downtown...of course Chicago has no rival there
| 693 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:46:45pm |
re: #688 reine.de.tout
Love ya, Flo, you are always so sweet!
Momma always said "honey'll get you more than vinegar"!
HI Reine!
*waves*
| 694 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:47:17pm |
re: #686 Dark_Falcon
Can you get DirecTV? Satellite comm is very reliable.
Possibly, haven't looked into DTV. Didn't know they offered interent... Sigh.
| 695 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:47:28pm |
re: #578 Cato the Elder
What are we talking about?
(Just got back from a long phone call with my old girlfriend (rich, too!) who wants me to move to Mexico with her.)
Maybe you'll be neighbors with expatriate curmudgeon Fred Reed. Don't let him lie to you!
//
| 696 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:47:40pm |
re: #682 Charles
And not a single bit of it proves your contention that actual inaccurate data was produced.
Of course I disagree, but thanks for letting me publish the essay. And East Anglia is concerned enough to open an investigation...
This is good in my opinion.
| 697 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:47:51pm |
re: #662 Walter L. Newton
BAD DATA REPLACED (Ian Harris, 23 May 2002)
Again, we have a circular argument. I agree that there was bad data, some problems with the program and the rest. What we don't know is what was corrected, what stayed in, and what if any effect it had on the big picture.
It's as if you hacked a e-mail from me bitching about someone installing a wrong valve spring in one of my Studebakers. Did I later replace it with the correct one, or did the wrong one work just fine ? It may be a unknowable fact.
| 698 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:48:13pm |
re: #678 Varek Raith
You know, I pay Comcast up the wazoo for high speed internet, the least they could do is keep it freaking stable.
Ahem, excuse me.
/rant
I pay $82 a month for high speed cable and 200 and some TV channels here in ABQ...and rarely have a slowdown
| 700 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:48:48pm |
re: #696 Walter L. Newton
it might be politically motivated, y'know >>
| 701 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:48:55pm |
re: #693 Floral Giraffe
Momma always said "honey'll get you more than vinegar"!
HI Reine!
*waves*
Momma was right.
*waves back*
| 702 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:49:02pm |
| 703 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:49:23pm |
re: #671 Cato the Elder
You could grow old together. There's a lot to be said for companionship.
| 704 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:49:58pm |
re: #692 albusteve
indeed and you can see it there...Denver has also done a wonderful job of keeping the old stuff around, it makes for a very stylish and historic downtown...of course Chicago has no rival there
No, indeed. Chicago has some truly wonderful architecture.
| 705 |
Doug Wild Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:50:01pm |
As a newbie, I have a few questions, but do not wish to derail this thread. I have spent a lot of time at NewsBusters and so I am surmising you guys are smarter, younger and more connected. I am definitely smart, not young and not really connected. I agree with the threads on your site I read today, but generally disagree with the “conservative” platform. I am not a troll and despite the need at NewsBusters to humiliate “Dougie Poo,” I am up for an honest discussion.
Here are my initial questions.
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
Do you really hate government programs to help the poor?
To be honest, I am not up to the discussion tonight, but would enjoy challenging conversations in the future. I was denied typing in high school as a college-bound student, so I am slower than most of you. Last question: where are your women? I have found more common ground with conservative women than their gender counterparts.
Doug Wild
| 706 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:50:24pm |
| 707 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:50:28pm |
re: #697 avanti
Again, we have a circular argument. I agree that there was bad data, some problems with the program and the rest. What we don't know is what was corrected, what stayed in, and what if any effect it had on the big picture.
It's as if you hacked a e-mail from me bitching about someone installing a wrong valve spring in one of my Studebakers. Did I later replace it with the correct one, or did the wrong one work just fine ? It may be a unknowable fact.
Nothing in my essay was taken from a single hacked email. I have said this 4 or 5 times already. My information was taken from a 324 page narrative by the programmer Ian Harris. He wrote the diary from 2006 to about Dec. 2009.
If you want the bigger picture, read his whole document, I posted links to it above.
| 708 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:50:52pm |
re: #706 windsagio
warning: The above youtube clip is arguably highly offensive.
| 709 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:51:58pm |
re: #681 Floral Giraffe
Regardless of what you choose to do.
I hope you enjoy it to the fullest!
And, Haku, too.
Haku is good, wherever we go. Remember, I scooped him off the streets of Baltimore when he was a puppy and took him to the puppy ICU. They said he wouldn't live.
Fooled them, he did.
But this is the thing: He doesn't like humidity. Heat, fine. He's a Korean dog. And I'm a Michigan boy.
Give me a high desert and 110, we'll be fine.
| 710 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:52:04pm |
re: #578 Cato the Elder
What are we talking about?
(Just got back from a long phone call with my old girlfriend (rich, too!) who wants me to move to Mexico with her.)
Just, well, maybe you should re-read the John D. MacDonald novels starring Travis McGee, before you make any commitments...
As a thought..
| 711 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:52:24pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
yikes!...hate the govt for helping the poor?...oil wars?
I"ll check that to the next person
| 712 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:52:28pm |
| 713 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:52:35pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
I fixing to go to bed in a few minutes, but I will say this... NEWSBUSTERS is no better than a fiction magazine.
If you are getting your information from them, you are getting lied to on a daily basis.
By the way, I'm 57, and many of the Lizards on this thread are certainly older than 40.
| 714 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:52:55pm |
re: #703 prairiefire
You could grow old together. There's a lot to be said for companionship.
a very good point
| 715 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:53:09pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
wars for oil...where the hell is the oil then?
got no problem helping the less fortunate.
| 716 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:53:11pm |
re: #686 Dark_Falcon
Can you get DirecTV? Satellite comm is very reliable.
Until the Iranians shoot up their next satellite and do an EMP on our asses.
| 717 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:53:22pm |
re: #687 Walter L. Newton
I'm going to head off to bed in a few minutes, Have to be up at 5:00 am. Long five days of lugging furniture coming up.
And Charles, thanks for letting me post that.
To be clear, I think the issue with Charles was using cherry picked information that was obtained illegally. I only point that out so folks don't think we normally need to clear topics with the head Lizard.
| 718 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:53:35pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
As a newbie, I have a few questions, but do not wish to derail this thread. I have spent a lot of time at NewsBusters and so I am surmising you guys are smarter, younger and more connected. I am definitely smart, not young and not really connected. I agree with the threads on your site I read today, but generally disagree with the “conservative” platform. I am not a troll and despite the need at NewsBusters to humiliate “Dougie Poo,” I am up for an honest discussion.
Here are my initial questions.
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
Do you really hate government programs to help the poor?
To be honest, I am not up to the discussion tonight, but would enjoy challenging conversations in the future. I was denied typing in high school as a college-bound student, so I am slower than most of you. Last question: where are your women? I have found more common ground with conservative women than their gender counterparts.
Doug Wild
Welcome.
There is no "you". We would give a hundred answers to your questions.
Our genders are carefully disguised to provide a tense ambiguity.
"Decatur Deb" is not a female.
| 719 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:53:57pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
As a newbie, I have a few questions, but do not wish to derail this thread. I have spent a lot of time at NewsBusters and so I am surmising you guys are smarter, younger and more connected. I am definitely smart, not young and not really connected. I agree with the threads on your site I read today, but generally disagree with the “conservative” platform. I am not a troll and despite the need at NewsBusters to humiliate “Dougie Poo,” I am up for an honest discussion.
Here are my initial questions.
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
Do you really hate government programs to help the poor?
To be honest, I am not up to the discussion tonight, but would enjoy challenging conversations in the future. I was denied typing in high school as a college-bound student, so I am slower than most of you. Last question: where are your women? I have found more common ground with conservative women than their gender counterparts.
Doug Wild
Are you out of your fucking mind?
I AM NO ONE'S WOMAN.
| 720 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:54:03pm |
| 721 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:54:09pm |
re: #709 Cato the Elder
Joshua Tree, except Anza Borrego is SO much prettier.
Go for the Palm Canyons.
BEWARE the Cholla!
Needle nose pliers in the glove box, help!
| 722 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:54:22pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
Says he's not a troll but opens with inflammatory questions. I'm bringing another bag of charcoal over to the grill.
| 723 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:54:45pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
I have trouble believing that this post is real.
| 724 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:54:47pm |
re: #718 Decatur Deb
Welcome.
There is no "you". We would give a hundred answers to your questions.
Our genders are carefully disguised to provide a tense ambiguity.
"Decatur Deb" is not a female.
albusteve is a very hot chick
| 725 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:54:47pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
As a newbie, I have a few questions, but do not wish to derail this thread. I have spent a lot of time at NewsBusters and so I am surmising you guys are smarter, younger and more connected. I am definitely smart, not young and not really connected. I agree with the threads on your site I read today, but generally disagree with the “conservative” platform. I am not a troll and despite the need at NewsBusters to humiliate “Dougie Poo,” I am up for an honest discussion.
Here are my initial questions.
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
Do you really hate government programs to help the poor?
To be honest, I am not up to the discussion tonight, but would enjoy challenging conversations in the future. I was denied typing in high school as a college-bound student, so I am slower than most of you. Last question: where are your women? I have found more common ground with conservative women than their gender counterparts.
Doug Wild
Do you think that we women belong to ANYONE?
| 727 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:54:58pm |
re: #717 avanti
To be clear, I think the issue with Charles was using cherry picked information that was obtained illegally. I only point that out so folks don't think we normally need to clear topics with the head Lizard.
And I pointed that all out in the very beginning of my essay. And yes, I would say I think if you are going to use Charles blog to post almost 9 pages of a document, you maybe should clear it with him, no matter what the material is. My opinion.
| 728 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:55:04pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
As a newbie, I have a few questions, but do not wish to derail this thread. I have spent a lot of time at NewsBusters and so I am surmising you guys are smarter, younger and more connected. I am definitely smart, not young and not really connected. I agree with the threads on your site I read today, but generally disagree with the “conservative” platform. I am not a troll and despite the need at NewsBusters to humiliate “Dougie Poo,” I am up for an honest discussion.
Here are my initial questions.
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
Do you really hate government programs to help the poor?
To be honest, I am not up to the discussion tonight, but would enjoy challenging conversations in the future. I was denied typing in high school as a college-bound student, so I am slower than most of you. Last question: where are your women? I have found more common ground with conservative women than their gender counterparts.
Doug Wild
Dude, I'm a liberal and I find this painful to read....
Seriously, you may want to head down to your local art store and pick up some thinner brushes to paint with...
| 729 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:55:07pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
Where are our women? Women? Doug's asking after you.
| 731 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:55:15pm |
re: #713 Walter L. Newton
I fixing to go to bed in a few minutes, but I will say this... NEWSBUSTERS is no better than a fiction magazine.
If you are getting your information from them, you are getting lied to on a daily basis.
By the way, I'm 57, and many of the Lizards on this thread are certainly older than 40.
And SMARTER than 110. Way smarter. Mostly!
| 732 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:55:16pm |
| 734 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:55:43pm |
Remember that there is no code faster than no code.
-- Taligent's Guide to Designing Programs
More good code has been written in languages denounced as "bad'' than
in languages proclaimed "wonderful'' -- much more.
-- Bjarne Stroustrup, "The Design and Evolution of C++" (1994)
Smart data structures and dumb code works alot better than the other
way around.
-- Eric S. Raymond, "The Cathedral and the Bazaar"
It's hard to read through a book on the principles of magic without
glancing at the cover periodically to make sure it isn't a book on
software design.
-- Bruce Tognazzini
Fools ignore complexity; pragmatists suffer it; experts avoid it;
geniuses remove it.
-- Alan Perlis
Computer Science is the only discipline in which we view adding a new
wing to a building as being maintenance.
-- Jim Horning
Programming is similar to a game of golf. The point is not getting the
ball in the hole but how many strokes it takes.
-- H. Mills
Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy
if both are frozen.
-- Edward V. Berard
If you cannot grok the overall structure of a program while taking a
shower, you are not ready to code it.
-- Richard Pattis
If you are not an open-source enthusiast at 20, you have no heart. If
you are still an open-source enthusiast at 30, you're an idiot.
-- Cedric Beust
| 735 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:55:43pm |
re: #722 Dark_Falcon
Says he's not a troll but opens with inflammatory questions. I'm bringing another bag of charcoal over to the grill.
In Ireland they would say "You're a fast man with the spit".
| 736 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:55:52pm |
re: #732 Varek Raith
I believe it... it all makes sense now!
| 737 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:56:14pm |
| 738 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:56:14pm |
re: #719 MandyManners
Are you out of your fucking mind?
I AM NO ONE'S WOMAN.
Now you've done Doug. Mandy is the lizard you don't want mess with. She's as smart as me, but even fiercer.
| 739 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:56:31pm |
re: #719 MandyManners
Are you out of your fucking mind?
I AM NO ONE'S WOMAN.
Liar. You are YOUR OWN WOMAN, Mandy.
| 740 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:56:38pm |
re: #729 prairiefire
don't egg on mandy.....she's gonna flatten this guy as it is....
| 741 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:56:39pm |
Okay Doug. Figure me for one of the conservatives here. I'm up for answering your provocative questions.
Here are my initial questions. At your convenience.
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
Do you really hate government programs to help the poor?
| 744 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:57:19pm |
re: #707 Walter L. Newton
Nothing in my essay was taken from a single hacked email. I have said this 4 or 5 times already. My information was taken from a 324 page narrative by the programmer Ian Harris. He wrote the diary from 2006 to about Dec. 2009.
If you want the bigger picture, read his whole document, I posted links to it above.
IMHO, my analogy still stands because the e-mails were cherry picked to only show potentially negative inferences.
| 746 |
keloyd Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:57:53pm |
re: #725 MandyManners
Do you think that we women belong to ANYONE?
Hey Doug, I think Mandy is telling you she is available...or would be if we let the noobs near our women.
| 747 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:57:54pm |
| 748 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:58:11pm |
re: #743 albusteve
ALL OF YOUR BROADS ARE BELONG TO US1
You Moonbats have no escape, make your time!!
Ha ha ha!!
| 749 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:58:19pm |
re: #695 The Sanity Inspector
Maybe you'll be neighbors with expatriate curmudgeon Fred Reed. Don't let him lie to you!
//
Heh. He of "How to Date Young Women" infamy?
I ghost-wrote that book.
| 750 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:58:20pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
Despite being more or less a liberal I don't believe we've fought any wars for oil. I think we've fought some wars in oil-rich areas for other reasons and oil companies made deals with the defense department to make sure they could make every penny off it they could. I don't think our foreign policy is that crass.
I support government programs to help the poor and their expansion. This includes but is not limited to single payer health care, welfare, school free lunch programs, financial aide for college, early childhood education, family planning initiatives, and job training programs.
The women are barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
| 751 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:58:50pm |
re: #718 Decatur Deb
Welcome.
There is no "you". We would give a hundred answers to your questions.
Our genders are carefully disguised to provide a tense ambiguity.
"Decatur Deb" is not a female.
And, not all of us are young.
| 752 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:59:00pm |
re: #750 Conservative Moonbat
*psst*Its always dangerous to say that, but I'm betting its younglib again~
| 753 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:59:00pm |
re: #696 Walter L. Newton
Of course I disagree, but thanks for letting me publish the essay. And East Anglia is concerned enough to open an investigation...
This is good in my opinion.
You haven't proven that incorrect data was produced. That's a simple fact. I respect your effort, and the fact that you followed through and posted it, but you didn't do what you said you would do.
| 754 |
Mich-again Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:59:14pm |
re: #685 windsagio
The NYT printed leaked military information during the last administration. Now they are letting the WH tell them when military stories should be printed. I wonder why the change of heart?
| 755 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:59:20pm |
re: #697 avanti
It's as if you hacked a e-mail from me bitching about someone installing a wrong valve spring in one of my Studebakers. Did I later replace it with the correct one, or did the wrong one work just fine ? It may be a unknowable fact.
Can you not see that the credibility of the mechanic, who repeatedly installed wrong valve springs for many years, had been significantly compromised?
| 756 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:59:24pm |
re: #748 Dark_Falcon
You Moonbats have no escape, make your time!!
Ha ha ha!!
| 757 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:59:52pm |
re: #746 keloyd
Hey Doug, I think Mandy is telling you she is available...or would be if we let the noobs near our women.
Oh, dear.
I'm doing my best to play along with what I supposes is a mocking of that assholish post.
I'll ding you up.
| 758 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:00:10pm |
re: #744 avanti
IMHO, my analogy still stands because the e-mails were cherry picked to only show potentially negative inferences.
So, are you saying I cherry picked Ian Harris' narrative? In that case, why would I post a link to his full complete document? If I was cherry picking, I certainly wouldn't want to make it easier for you to follow up looking over potentially damaging material that would disprove my points.
The hacked email have nothing to do with this discussion.
| 759 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:00:21pm |
re: #748 Dark_Falcon
You Moonbats have no escape, make your time!!
Ha ha ha!!
what a nerk...he types slow because he has one hand down his pants
| 761 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:01:06pm |
re: #758 Walter L. Newton
just curious walter, where did the PDF come from? I missed that somewhere in here.
Also, its an aside at best to jump on the fact that he mentioned the emails :P
| 762 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:01:31pm |
| 763 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:01:41pm |
re: #759 albusteve
one hand in his pants, one on the mouse... dare I ask what's being used to type?
| 764 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:02:07pm |
re: #752 windsagio
*psst*Its always dangerous to say that, but I'm betting its younglib again~
If so, he does a much more convincing Conservative than Liberal....
| 765 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:02:58pm |
re: #725 MandyManners
Do you think that we women belong to ANYONE?
MY women are all on my iPod.
The realy-life wymyn I know are all doin' they're thangs.
| 766 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:02:59pm |
re: #758 Walter L. Newton
So, are you saying I cherry picked Ian Harris' narrative? In that case, why would I post a link to his full complete document? If I was cherry picking, I certainly wouldn't want to make it easier for you to follow up looking over potentially damaging material that would disprove my points.
The hacked email have nothing to do with this discussion.
what'd I tell you
| 767 |
Mich-again Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:03:01pm |
re: #690 Decatur Deb
Vintage cars are green. Production of a car requires about as much fossil energy as it will burn in its normal lifetime. My 1973 truck has prevented the production of about five replacement trucks.
Huh? any data for that claim? I know it takes about $100 worth of electricity and natural gas to assemble a car or truck. Some more for the parts that go into it. Saying it takes as much energy to build as it will burn it its lifetime is off base by orders of magnitude.
| 768 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:03:02pm |
| 769 |
keloyd Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:03:21pm |
re: #757 MandyManners
We usually need pretty good secret decoder rings to know when a poster is serious and when it is an attempt at dry humor, based on a literal reading of your posts, but not as good as the 'all your base are belong to us' riff. You called it right!
| 770 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:04:01pm |
re: #752 windsagio
*psst*Its always dangerous to say that, but I'm betting its younglib again~
Post reccommended to Charles. That's a good theory.
| 771 |
avanti Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:04:02pm |
re: #755 Spare O'Lake
Can you not see that the credibility of the mechanic, who repeatedly installed wrong valve springs for many years, had been significantly compromised?
In this case, the mechanic was pissed about the wrong springs and set out to correct it. To further abuse the analogy, we have no proof the engine did not run like a top in the end.
| 772 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:04:07pm |
re: #764 jamesfirecat
Its someone familiar with LGF anyways... The "Whare are your women" is an amazing combination of something somebody wouldn't normally say, and something absolutely guaranteed to set the blog off in one fell swoop.
| 773 |
solomonpanting Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:04:47pm |
re: #759 albusteve
what a nerk...he types slow because he has one hand down his pants
Why do you think some, uh, typists, are hunt 'n peckers?
| 774 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:04:53pm |
| 775 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:05:10pm |
re: #735 Decatur Deb
In Ireland they would say "You're a fast man with the spit".
I can spit faster than any homeboy in Baltimore.
| 776 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:05:24pm |
re: #774 windsagio
I do like how we can always come together in the end ;)
/well almost always :p
Group hug!
| 777 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:05:26pm |
re: #98 albusteve
I don't consider J Wright and BOs Chicago background a dead horse at all...his seedy friends and strong arm politics define who he is...people have short memories...BO was made, otherwise there is simply nothing to him...this is why I despise the fools that voted for him
You despise the 70 million who voted for Obama? That's a lot of hatred to carry around, but if anyone can handle that, it's you.
All presidents are "made", foolish to think otherwise. Always some machine behind them. And they ALL have seedy friends--JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Clinton, Carter, Bush, Obama, even Reagan--all have consorted with sleazeballs.
You've got ODS, among other things.
| 778 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:05:29pm |
| 779 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:05:36pm |
re: #773 solomonpanting
Why do you think some, uh, typists, are hunt 'n peckers?
there you have it...how's it going bro?
| 780 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:05:54pm |
re: #739 Floral Giraffe
Liar. You are YOUR OWN WOMAN, Mandy.
At least she didn't say "Noone's woman"!
| 781 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:06:18pm |
re: #772 windsagio
Its someone familiar with LGF anyways... The "Whare are your women" is an amazing combination of something somebody wouldn't normally say, and something absolutely guaranteed to set the blog off in one fell swoop.
I'm just saying that "Mosh" managed to get some support from the conservatives on the site, where as this guy makes me feel angry and bitter as a liberal....
So like I said, he did a better job as passing for a reasonable conservative than he does for a liberal....
| 782 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:06:47pm |
re: #780 Cato the Elder
At least she didn't say "Noone's woman"!
No won nows what your talking a bout.
| 783 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:06:55pm |
re: #695 The Sanity Inspector
Maybe you'll be neighbors with expatriate curmudgeon Fred Reed. Don't let him lie to you!
//
That was hilarious!
| 784 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:07:29pm |
re: #767 Mich-again
Huh? any data for that claim? I know it takes about $100 worth of electricity and natural gas to assemble a car or truck. Some more for the parts that go into it. Saying it takes as much energy to build as it will burn it its lifetime is off base by orders of magnitude.
I'll dig it out over the next day or so. Are you counting the energy cost of mining and refining steel/aluminum/exotics? (It was from a Brit car site, and might be suspect.)
| 785 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:07:58pm |
re: #781 jamesfirecat
well if the troll is basically conservative, they'd be able to fake a particular flavor more easily.
| 786 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:08:34pm |
re: #785 windsagio
also, I'd put money up that that comment was specifically designed to piss Mandy off. Being an obnoxious lefty just adds to that.
| 787 |
keloyd Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:08:34pm |
How can we be calmly debating to whom our women belong when Kim Jong Il Is sneaking into congress(!)
I'z in yer congeress, votin for kimchi
| 788 |
JohninLondon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:08:38pm |
I tried reading the Harry_read_me file when it was released.
It sounded like one long cry of anguish by Mr Harris about how the CRU had been handling data from the start of the 1990s until he was put on the work in 2006. The impression overall was that things were in a very serious mess. And a mess that took him month after month after month to sort out - 3 years in all. And even then he concedes that not everything is OK.
At the very least, that suggests that the output of CRU on the TS series was unreliable for about 15 years. And it is a reasonable surmise that the same lack of discipline could have applied applied to other handling of data at CRU, to other CRU outputs.
How unreliable ? We don't know. Possibly unknowable. But obviously the work of the CRU has not been replicable by other parties over those years.
If the procedures for data handling were a serious mess, it seems to me to be axiomatic that errors were output. How serious - we don't know. But it looks impossible to believe that the CRU output was not flawed, that it contained no errors.
The accountancy analogy may help. Harris was doing a post-audit. He found the stuff in a real mess. He spent 3 years trying to sort out just one part of it. Who could trust fully the earlier figures ?
| 789 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:09:11pm |
re: #777 palomino
You despise the 70 million who voted for Obama? That's a lot of hatred to carry around, but if anyone can handle that, it's you.
All presidents are "made", foolish to think otherwise. Always some machine behind them. And they ALL have seedy friends--JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Clinton, Carter, Bush, Obama, even Reagan--all have consorted with sleazeballs.
You've got ODS, among other things.
I don't hate them, you made that up...I despise their stupidity, like children gone awry...as for the ODS, leftists made up that term as well, so I consider the source and laugh myself onward...I don't give a shit what anybody thinks, including you....this is a news blog, not a shrinks sofa
| 790 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:09:41pm |
re: #788 JohninLondon
the problem is we can't deny them either... And apparently, the CRU figures match other organizations (got that from Obdi, don't know exactly where he got it).
| 791 |
solomonpanting Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:09:58pm |
re: #779 albusteve
there you have it...how's it going bro?
Same as usual, only more so.
Hope you're well.
| 792 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:10:02pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
As a newbie, I have a few questions, but do not wish to derail this thread. I have spent a lot of time at NewsBusters and so I am surmising you guys are smarter, younger and more connected. I am definitely smart, not young and not really connected. I agree with the threads on your site I read today, but generally disagree with the “conservative” platform. I am not a troll and despite the need at NewsBusters to humiliate “Dougie Poo,” I am up for an honest discussion.
Here are my initial questions.
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
Do you really hate government programs to help the poor?
To be honest, I am not up to the discussion tonight, but would enjoy challenging conversations in the future. I was denied typing in high school as a college-bound student, so I am slower than most of you. Last question: where are your women? I have found more common ground with conservative women than their gender counterparts.
Doug Wild
oh shit, it's a bomb.
*reads replies*
*eats popcorn*
| 793 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:10:34pm |
| 794 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:10:45pm |
| 795 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:11:26pm |
re: #785 windsagio
well if the troll is basically conservative, they'd be able to fake a particular flavor more easily.
Well then he should have stuck with what he does best....
Even if its getting kicked off LGF for the 5th time in a row....
| 796 |
Doug Wild Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:11:36pm |
re: #719 MandyManners
Excellent. I like you guys already. Although we don't agree, I will do my best to be respectful.
Doug Wild
| 797 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:12:04pm |
re: #785 windsagio
Coming in to start trouble is more a mark of a wingnut than anything else.
| 798 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:12:13pm |
re: #794 The Sanity Inspector
Not inhaling if I land next to the hippies...
You can exhale. Just don't inhale.
| 800 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:12:24pm |
re: #792 Vambo
oh shit, it's a bomb.
*reads replies*
*eats popcorn*
Nope, just a dumb attempt at trolling. Troll got its butt beaten and sent on its way.
| 801 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:12:40pm |
where are your wu-mons?....show me your wu-mons
| 802 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:13:26pm |
| 803 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:13:30pm |
re: #796 Doug Wild
Excellent. I like you guys already. Although we don't agree, I will do my best to be respectful.
Doug Wild
Methinks the laddie doth protest prostrate prostate too much.
| 804 |
prairiefire Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:13:45pm |
re: #794 The Sanity Inspector
Not inhaling if I land next to the hippies...
Hey! Patchouli/Musk oil smells great!
| 806 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:14:13pm |
re: #801 albusteve
where are your wu-mons?...show me your wu-mons
Since this movie went over so well last night....
| 807 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:14:19pm |
re: #799 Varek Raith
Hmmm...
Bring that CGT array online, Varek. The visible ship is sending friendly messages but I think its towing cloaked troll ships.
| 808 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:14:20pm |
re: #796 Doug Wild
Excellent. I like you guys already. Although we don't agree, I will do my best to be respectful.
Doug Wild
this is boring.
| 811 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:16:21pm |
re: #807 Dark_Falcon
Bring that CGT array online, Varek. The visible ship is sending friendly messages but I think its towing cloaked troll ships.
Interdictor cruisers deployed, as well. No escape!
| 812 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:16:37pm |
Kinda weird. Liberals on the internet don't hang at Newsbusters.
Even if you were a liberal who wants to make fun of the wingnuts and taunt them you'd go somewhere else. (RedState, HotAir) or to one of the small blogs: Pammy, Ace, Dan Riehl....
Not that I'd uh, know anything about that. (hums, looks at sky, drags toe bashfully in dirt...)
"Whar the women at!" is classic though.
| 813 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:16:39pm |
re: #807 Dark_Falcon
Bring that CGT array online, Varek. The visible ship is sending friendly messages but I think its towing cloaked troll ships.
I thought that said "CBT"...
note to self, browsing porn and LGF at the same time causes confusion.
| 814 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:16:51pm |
re: #796 Doug Wild
Excellent. I like you guys already. Although we don't agree, I will do my best to be respectful.
Doug Wild
You don't agree that I am no one's woman?
| 815 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:17:07pm |
re: #806 jamesfirecat
Since this movie went over so well last night...
[Video]
Hurry up! At this rate we ain't ever gonna get to Rock Ridge! ;)
| 816 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:17:38pm |
re: #808 Vambo
this is boring.
Who does it think it's kidding. "Although we don't agree"?
Who is this "we"?
There's everything here from Avanti to Zato. What's to agree with?
Pick a subject and start arguing, oder troll dich, you troll.
| 817 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:17:43pm |
re: #813 Vambo
I thought that said "CBT"...
note to self, browsing porn and LGF at the same time causes confusion.
A crystal gravfield trap (CGT) was a rare and expensive type of sensor that used a synthetic crystal grid to detect and identify fluctuations in the local gravity field. They could be blocked by the presence of mass, not being able to detect a ship on the far side of a planet due to its mass.
| 818 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:17:53pm |
re: #812 iceweasel
Kinda weird. Liberals on the internet don't hang at Newsbusters.
srsly.
I lasted about a week a Politico. Newsbusters? Hot Air? I'd be banned within minutes.
| 819 |
Mich-again Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:18:02pm |
re: #784 Decatur Deb
Well it would seem that the customer pays for all the costs that went into making the car when they buy it. And energy is one of the pieces, but not the biggest piece.
| 820 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:18:21pm |
re: #815 Dark_Falcon
Hurry up! At this rate we ain't ever gonna get to Rock Ridge! ;)
Somebody get a s*** load of dimes!
| 821 |
simoom Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:18:56pm |
re: #597 Walter L. Newton
That was my contention and and Ian Harris' notes prove that.
Walter,
You appear to be making a lot of assumptions as you parse Ian's documentation (attempting to divine context, meaning and consequences). One suggestion that occurs to me is maybe you could try e-mailing him and asking him about some of your hypotheses.
| 822 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:18:57pm |
re: #767 Mich-again
I'm about to crash here. Ping me re: energy on the next car or environmental thread. I'll bookmark some refs.
| 824 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:19:13pm |
re: #818 Vambo
What got you banned at Politico?
| 825 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:19:25pm |
re: #811 Varek Raith
Interdictor cruisers deployed, as well. No escape!
Good. Now just point the cloaked ships out. Once the CGT array spots 'em, my Star Destroyers will punch their lights out. I want to capture trolls for roasting so we'll use ion cannons only for a couple of the troll ships.
| 826 |
swamprat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:20:00pm |
re: #705 Doug Wild
As a newbie, I have a few questions, but do not wish to derail this thread. I have spent a lot of time at NewsBusters and so I am surmising you guys are smarter, younger and more connected. I am definitely smart, not young and not really connected. I agree with the threads on your site I read today, but generally disagree with the “conservative” platform. I am not a troll and despite the need at NewsBusters to humiliate “Dougie Poo,” I am up for an honest discussion.
Here are my initial questions.
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
I resent you calling our president a "neo-con" and slandering his motives as commander in chief of our troops.
Do you really hate government programs to help the poor?
No. But force a person to wear a brace or crutch, and he will lose the ability to walk without one.
To be honest, I am not up to the discussion tonight, but would enjoy challenging conversations in the future. I was denied typing in high school as a college-bound student, so I am slower than most of you.
Last question: where are your women?
I have never owned one, but my wife is 4 feet away and my daughter is making a good living after being on record as being the youngest to graduate her college.......thanks for asking.
I have found more common ground with conservative women than their gender counterparts.
Sorry that you find men menacing.
Doug Wild
You seem to be the southern portion of a north bound horse carrying a load of assumptions.
| 827 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:20:11pm |
re: #812 iceweasel
Hello, ice queen!
I'm charged up. Call. (Tried you at 1800, but damn that (vo)icemail!)
| 828 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:20:30pm |
I'm sorry, I have to post another one.
I normally avoid Bush topics, but the way the Boondocks satirized GW always makes me laugh so hard >>
| 829 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:21:04pm |
re: #381 TampaKnight
You all realize that Fox got popular because they filled the giant void in the media for any right-leaning news and perspective...right?
They wouldn't have been so received if the media was truly balanced like everyone claims it is.
The void was on cable TV...Fox filled it. And then went completely over the top with charlatans like Beck and Hannity.
| 830 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:21:37pm |
re: #818 Vambo
srsly.
I lasted about a week a Politico. Newsbusters? Hot Air? I'd be banned within minutes.
Yeah, and it wouldn't even be fun. Though I have enjoyed driving by some of the wingnut blogs and dropping a few facts on them and asking when they plan to retract whatever lie they're spouting....Naturally they'll claim they're right no matter what (Confederate Wankee, Dan Riehl) or they'll magikally make the inconvenient comment go byebye, and sometimes the whole, hilariously wrong, post (RSM).
hee. Retract? NEVAR!
| 831 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:21:49pm |
I'm out like...something...that's out...???
Night all!
| 832 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:22:14pm |
re: #827 Cato the Elder
Hello, ice queen!
I'm charged up. Call. (Tried you at 1800, but damn that (vo)icemail!)
Ice has a 1-800 number?
DANG!
//
| 833 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:22:23pm |
re: #817 Varek Raith
The CGT was first introduced in Timothy Zahn's The Last Command as the only sensor system capable of detecting a cloaked ship. The New Republic mounted an attack on the Imperial shipyards at Bilbringi to seize the CGT the Empire had deployed to guard the yards.
| 834 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:23:00pm |
re: #827 Cato the Elder
Hello, ice queen!
I'm charged up. Call. (Tried you at 1800, but damn that (vo)icemail!)
Hey cutie!
Eating dinner and watching a documentary. I'm kind of depressed and wouldn't be much fun tonight. :(
| 835 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:23:21pm |
re: #829 palomino
zactly,give your news a right hand spin,and you got the only game in town.
| 836 |
Varek Raith Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:23:25pm |
re: #833 Dark_Falcon
The CGT was first introduced in Timothy Zahn's The Last Command as the only sensor system capable of detecting a cloaked ship. The New Republic mounted an attack on the Imperial shipyards at Bilbringi to seize the CGT the Empire had deployed to guard the yards.
I got a bunch of Star Wars e-books the other day, so yay!
:)
Okay, I'm out now.
| 837 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:25:08pm |
My ghoul appetites won't be needed tonight. 'Nite, all.
| 838 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:25:58pm |
re: #826 swamprat
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
I resent you calling our president a "neo-con" and slandering his motives as commander in chief of our troops.
And what people who ask that question--non-trollishly--never seem to grasp is that, if oil were so paramount for our foreign policy, we'd have just cut some sordid deals with Saddam, same as France did.
| 839 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:26:25pm |
re: #836 Varek Raith
I got a bunch of Star Wars e-books the other day, so yay!
:)
Okay, I'm out now.
Goodnight, Varek.
| 841 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:27:10pm |
same here kids school...snowing...will it be enough to spend another day on the sledding hill with the lil'ones?tune in tomorrow to find out!
g'nite everyone.
| 842 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:27:34pm |
re: #828 windsagio
I'm sorry, I have to post another one.
I normally avoid Bush topics, but the way the Boondocks satirized GW always makes me laugh so hard >>
[Video]
To be fair to Bush I don't think Sadam was that clear about not having WMDs.... or maybe my memory of how this whole mess went down 7 years ago is fuzzy....
| 843 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:28:11pm |
| 844 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:28:39pm |
re: #842 jamesfirecat
Its not really that McGruder is right, its just the whole tone and the details:
"Drop the weapon!"
"I don't have a weapon, you're thinking of the Korean shop North of here!"
| 845 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:28:42pm |
re: #826 swamprat
As a newbie, I have a few questions, but do not wish to derail this thread. I have spent a lot of time at NewsBusters and so I am surmising you guys are smarter, younger and more connected. I am definitely smart, not young and not really connected. I agree with the threads on your site I read today, but generally disagree with the “conservative” platform. I am not a troll and despite the need at NewsBusters to humiliate “Dougie Poo,” I am up for an honest discussion.
Here are my initial questions.
Do you support the neo-con’s wars for oil?
I resent you calling our president a "neo-con" and slandering his motives as commander in chief of our troops.
Do you really hate government programs to help the poor?
No. But force a person to wear a brace or crutch, and he will lose the ability to walk without one.
To be honest, I am not up to the discussion tonight, but would enjoy challenging conversations in the future. I was denied typing in high school as a college-bound student, so I am slower than most of you.
Last question: where are your women?
I have never owned one, but my wife is 4 feet away and my daughter is making a good living after being on record as being the youngest to graduate her college...thanks for asking.
I have found more common ground with conservative women than their gender counterparts.
Sorry that you find men menacing.Doug Wild
You seem to be the southern portion of a north bound horse carrying a load of assumptions.
Laughing my ass off.
I don't know about Doug Wild, but the last thing I would brag about on a new-to-me blog would be not being connected.
I am connected six ways to Kevin Bacon. I own a ranch in Arizona, a penthouse in in Seattle, and season tickets to the Bregenz Opera. If you fuck with my dog's chew toy, you'll be fed to my pet piranhas. Don't even think about looking lustily at my liberal girlfriends. Your balls will be Eggs Benedict at the Vatican. My conservative girlfriends? They'll feed you lovingly to my 150-year-old koi after passing you through a ricer. Without shooting you first.
That, if you want to make a splash as a troll, is how you do it, Doug.
| 846 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:29:59pm |
re: #null windsagio
or with Saudi Arabia...
As bad as Saudia is, Saddam was worse. There's a not-so-fine line where realpolitik shades over into outright abandonment of principles. It was especially unpretty seeing the homeland of the Declaration of the Rights of Man go that route.
| 847 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:30:01pm |
Neocon war for oil.
Heh.
We could have taken every drop of oil from the sands of Iraq and not lost one American soldier.
If that was all we really wanted.
| 848 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:30:03pm |
re: #834 iceweasel
Hey cutie!
Eating dinner and watching a documentary. I'm kind of depressed and wouldn't be much fun tonight. :(
Step AWAY from the veggie drier. And the cutting board. THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY RED PEPPERS you can cut & dry yourself!
Please, step away.
(Feel better!)
| 849 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:30:04pm |
re: #834 iceweasel
Hey cutie!
Eating dinner and watching a documentary. I'm kind of depressed and wouldn't be much fun tonight. :(
That's what documentaries do for you. Try a shoot-'em-up.
| 850 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:30:16pm |
re: #789 albusteve
Ironic that you go on about Americans' short memories and then deny something you wrote an hour ago, namely that you despise Obama voters.
Kudos on dishing out more hatred and hostility than anyone else at LGF.
| 851 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:30:49pm |
re: #844 windsagio
Its not really that McGruder is right, its just the whole tone and the details:
That I won't deny.
And there there was Jon Stewart looking at our current global position.
"I think given that we've invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, we're either going to invade Iran, or they'll have to take Whoppie Goldberg to block....
| 852 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:31:04pm |
| 853 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:31:19pm |
re: #847 Racer X
Neocon war for oil.
Heh.
We could have taken every drop of oil from the sands of Iraq and not lost one American soldier.
If that was all we really wanted.
and we still can...if we refuse to find our own, we have choices....hahaha!
| 854 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:31:53pm |
re: #847 Racer X
Neocon war for oil.
Heh.
We could have taken every drop of oil from the sands of Iraq and not lost one American soldier.
If that was all we really wanted.
You mean the new Drill & Suck tank is ready for operation?
| 855 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:32:12pm |
re: #846 The Sanity Inspector
I've gotta be upfront, I just really really hate Saudi Arabia. Its almost irrational.
I do think that the only reason they didn't pull the crap Saddam did is because they have their people pretty much entirely under control, and don't need to do any of that stuff.
| 856 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:32:31pm |
| 857 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:33:20pm |
re: #850 palomino
Downding. Don't attack steve like that. He's not a hater of people, just a hater of big, intrusive government. LGF has a lot of people like that.
| 858 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:33:32pm |
re: #854 jamesfirecat
You mean the new Drill & Suck tank is ready for operation?
He means we could have ended this with a squadron of B-52s and some Windex.
| 859 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:33:52pm |
re: #857 Dark_Falcon
ok thats just not right. The guy can be fun, but he's a classic freakin' hater.
| 860 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:33:52pm |
re: #855 windsagio
I've gotta be upfront, I just really really hate Saudi Arabia. Its almost irrational.
I do think that the only reason they didn't pull the crap Saddam did is because they have their people pretty much entirely under control, and don't need to do any of that stuff.
Why do you feel this way?
| 861 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:33:58pm |
re: #855 windsagio
I've gotta be upfront, I just really really hate Saudi Arabia. Its almost irrational.
I do think that the only reason they didn't pull the crap Saddam did is because they have their people pretty much entirely under control, and don't need to do any of that stuff.
it called SDS
| 862 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:34:09pm |
re: #860 Floral Giraffe
which part, the first or the second?
| 863 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:34:22pm |
Venezuela continues its descent:
Venezuela's Chavez seizes French-owned retailer
Government inspectors accompanied by soldiers have temporarily shut down more than 1,000 businesses this month, including Exito's six stores in Venezuela, accusing them of improperly raising prices. Authorities took over management of Exito's stores Tuesday.
| 864 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:34:54pm |
I swear, if eau de dipshit could get me high, I'd be flying with Lyra and her golden compass right now.
| 865 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:35:08pm |
re: #856 albusteve
nerk, not jerk...one hand down his pants
He must be a masochist then, seeing as how he enjoys having us whip his ass. Probably needs the whipping to get off.
| 866 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:35:18pm |
re: #859 windsagio
ok thats just not right. The guy can be fun, but he's a classic freakin' hater.
He's a respected member of LGF, who is mostly very civil.
And you are?
| 867 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:35:18pm |
re: #858 The Sanity Inspector
He means we could have ended this with a squadron of B-52s and some Windex.
Damn it, when are we gonna be able to have a tank that drill a mile or more down below the surface of the earth and suck up their entire oil supply without them ever realizing we've done it?
| 868 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:35:43pm |
| 869 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:35:54pm |
re: #850 palomino
Ironic that you go on about Americans' short memories and then deny something you wrote an hour ago, namely that you despise Obama voters.
Kudos on dishing out more hatred and hostility than anyone else at LGF.
hate!
hostility!
more than anyone!
top that
| 870 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:36:01pm |
re: #866 Floral Giraffe
He's a respected member of LGF, who is mostly very civil.
Bolded for emphasis.
also, I just crapped myself.
I enjoy his act, but you're just not seeing.
| 871 |
Mich-again Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:36:27pm |
Wouldn't it be easier for those shadowy evil neocons just to go grab Canada and Mexico's oil and for that matter, all that oil stuck in the ground in the USA in areas where drilling is illegal for now and just let Europe and Japan worry about the oil in the ME.
What GWB and the neocons did in the ME was to kick over the tables and say F* the status quo that every American president in modern times before him worked so hard to preserve.
| 872 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:37:17pm |
re: #859 windsagio
ok thats just not right. The guy can be fun, but he's a classic freakin' hater.
classic hater!
not some new neo hater
I want a marble staue
| 873 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:37:28pm |
BTW, until we see more of DW, he doesn't even sound like a lib to me but like someone pretending to be (what he thinks is) a 'lib'.
Not to say he's on the right, either. Probably neither. It's just kinda weird to throw out 'neocon war for oil' and 'whyfore u all hate poor peepul?'
Sounds like someone faking to me. Then again, Newsbusters is a pretty bad site, so...
| 874 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:37:39pm |
re: #864 Cato the Elder
I swear, if eau de dipshit could get me high, I'd be flying with Lyra and her golden compass right now.
Share? Not the eau de dipshit ( I prefer eau de dipstick) but the flying with Lyra & the golden compass. Are you headed to Cabo? It's great this time of year!
| 875 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:37:45pm |
re: #863 jaunte
Venezuela continues its descent:
Venezuela's Chavez seizes French-owned retailer
I think its about time France sent Chavez a message. How about naming a smelly cheese after that stinkbomb?
| 876 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:37:51pm |
re: #794 The Sanity Inspector
Not inhaling if I land next to the hippies...
Should you pass out, who would you like us lizards to send in to revive you?
| 877 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:38:01pm |
U.S. Senator Frank Lautenberg taken to area hospital after fall
He seems to be OK
| 878 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:38:30pm |
re: #865 Dark_Falcon
He must be a masochist then, seeing as how he enjoys having us whip his ass. Probably needs the whipping to get off.
getting close I think...heh...got my abnormal psych book out here
| 879 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:38:41pm |
re: #868 Floral Giraffe
first part is probably irrational. I'd say its because they (specifically their state religion) have caused alot of the radicalism and problems in modern Sunni Islam. Also, they're a horrible repressive police state, one of the worst in the region (and thats saying something). Did you see the article this morning about how they're trying to force indonesian christians to convert to islam in order to work there? Thats messed.
The second, well Hussein mainly targeted Shi'ite and Kurd rebels, neither of which are meaningful factions ins SA.
| 880 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:39:00pm |
re: #870 windsagio
Bolded for emphasis.
also, I just crapped myself.
I enjoy his act, but you're just not seeing.
Clean pants, might help your perspective?
| 882 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:39:25pm |
re: #875 Dark_Falcon
It's going to be hard for him to keep expropriating everything, when he's feeding his country with imported food.
| 883 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:39:55pm |
re: #873 iceweasel
A certain "golly I'm new here" combined with the neocon thing just reeks of youngLibertarian.
| 884 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:39:57pm |
re: #880 Floral Giraffe
do you want me to go through and cite examples? That would be a big pain in the ass for both of us.
| 885 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:40:02pm |
re: #857 Dark_Falcon
Downding. Don't attack steve like that. He's not a hater of people, just a hater of big, intrusive government. LGF has a lot of people like that.
How is "I despise Obama voters" not an example of naked hatred?
| 886 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:40:16pm |
re: #883 Rightwingconspirator
thats what I said! Yeah the schtick is pretty damn familiar ;)
| 887 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:40:23pm |
Walter,
Fascinating post, thank you. I'm just reading through it now and digesting the details.
At bare minimum, you've clearly demonstrated that it is reasonable to assert that the CRU data up until 2006 was inaccurate. As this data was key to the IPCC AR4 issued in 2007, and was cited numerous times, the implications are huge.
Further, your data suggests that there was repair to the programs deployed in the CRU TS 3, however, it is obvious that the underlying data must certainly be erroneous at that point, and impossible to correct. Thus, the program no doubt worked better post CRU 2, but the underlying data set is clearly hopeless compromised.
Well done. Thank you.
| 888 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:40:59pm |
re: #873 iceweasel
BTW, until we see more of DW, he doesn't even sound like a lib to me but like someone pretending to be (what he thinks is) a 'lib'.
Not to say he's on the right, either. Probably neither. It's just kinda weird to throw out 'neocon war for oil' and 'whyfore u all hate poor peepul?'Sounds like someone faking to me. Then again, Newsbusters is a pretty bad site, so...
I agree with windsagio's theory: I think it's YoungLib92 AKA Mosh, trying to get back in here.
| 889 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:41:03pm |
re: #870 windsagio
also, I just crapped myself.
/blockquote>*steps a few feet away from windsagio*
| 890 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:41:10pm |
re: #884 windsagio
do you want me to go through and cite examples? That would be a big pain in the ass for both of us.
No, it would hurt you, not me.
| 891 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:41:11pm |
re: #881 windsagio
see that was funny :P
yeah..."classic freakin hater" is funny....Walter is a liar, that's freakin funny!...you are a freakin riot of laughter
| 892 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:41:21pm |
re: #866 Floral Giraffe
He's a respected member of LGF, who is mostly very civil.
And you are?
Yes yes, we know, we have to hang out for years on LGF and seniority and blah blah blah.
Seniority means everything...except when it doesn't. Just because someone has been playing in the comments for years and people like them, doesn't mean they're immune to being challenged when they say crap that doesn't make sense. In the internets that I come from, seniority means nothing and ideas mean everything.
People keep playing the seniority card here, and it's a dull dull card. it's the two of clubs.
| 893 |
keloyd Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:41:32pm |
re: #855 windsagio
Don't hate on Saudi Arabia. In many ways, they have painted themselves into a corner. They would have been able to reform away from a monarchy if they didn't have oil. The US propped up the royal family to keep the reds out for decades. Many oil-rich small countries have been cursed politically by their easy wealth.
The current royal family is more progressive than the populace, believe it or not. If the (male) public, they would mistreat women and religious dissidents even more. I remember a story (from History Channel Intl.)about how the king wanted to start a national public school system in the 60's. The public was enraged at the idea of girls attending school. He compromised to keep the peace. Local towns/regions could vote on whether to offer girls separate schools or none at all. Result - some girls got school. That's what progress has to look like there.
My only Saudi friend's wife has a college degree.
| 894 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:41:36pm |
re: #889 Racer X
I wouldn't get closer than that to me anyways...
| 895 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:41:44pm |
re: #886 windsagio
Yes it is, I must have scrolled past it. Meant to quote you.
So-5 sock accounts, no friends and 1 cheap ass internet cafe.
| 896 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:42:00pm |
re: #873 iceweasel
BTW, until we see more of DW, he doesn't even sound like a lib to me but like someone pretending to be (what he thinks is) a 'lib'.
Not to say he's on the right, either. Probably neither. It's just kinda weird to throw out 'neocon war for oil' and 'whyfore u all hate poor peepul?'Sounds like someone faking to me. Then again, Newsbusters is a pretty bad site, so...
Some things are so strange they're worth ignoring. That one was almost like Dan Aykroyd playing a foreign tourist. You know, staged. Probably just a set-up for later use.
| 897 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:42:03pm |
re: #873 iceweasel
Troll in training?
| 898 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:42:27pm |
re: #883 Rightwingconspirator
A certain "golly I'm new here" combined with the neocon thing just reeks of youngLibertarian.
I repeat my previous statement.
As a conservative he manged to fool some other conservatives for a bit.
As a liberal he's just a joke...
| 899 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:42:30pm |
re: #893 keloyd
They've been hoisted by their own Wahbist petard then. Its sad.
| 900 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:42:44pm |
re: #860 Floral Giraffe
Why do you feel this way?
You know, there was that little detail with the 9.11 hijackers mostly coming from Saudi Arabia...
I don't feel exactly the way Windsagio does, but Saudi Arabia is a marriage of convenience.
| 901 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:43:13pm |
re: #882 jaunte
It's going to be hard for him to keep expropriating everything, when he's feeding his country with imported food.
Chavez thinks he can just threaten to stop oil exports and the West will fold. It won't work, but he's already shown himself to be a fool. No surprise that he overplays his hand.
| 902 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:43:21pm |
re: #898 jamesfirecat
Right wingnut.
| 903 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:43:33pm |
re: #883 Rightwingconspirator
A certain "golly I'm new here" combined with the neocon thing just reeks of youngLibertarian.
Yeah. Plus this guy made a point of saying he's 'older' than he thinks we are.
Makes it much less likely imo that he'd throw out a phrase like 'neocon war for oil'. Also smells like YL trying out a new tactic. (This time I'll pretend to be older! And a lib!)
We'll see. If he is YL aka Mosh aka whatever, his pattern is to be unable to stay away and rack up tons of comments in a short period of time.
Could be legit, (doubt it), could be a new troll (highly likely, imo).
| 904 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:43:42pm |
re: #892 WindUpBird
Seniority is not a pass. But it is a history.
| 906 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:43:57pm |
re: #876 eclectic infidel
Should you pass out, who would you like us lizards to send in to revive you?
Whichever of -->our women
| 907 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:44:02pm |
re: #892 WindUpBird
Seniority means everything
In the Lizard Union.
Pay your dues and you get more benefits.
| 908 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:44:14pm |
re: #892 WindUpBird
Yes yes, we know, we have to hang out for years on LGF and seniority and blah blah blah.
Seniority means everything...except when it doesn't. Just because someone has been playing in the comments for years and people like them, doesn't mean they're immune to being challenged when they say crap that doesn't make sense. In the internets that I come from, seniority means nothing and ideas mean everything.
People keep playing the seniority card here, and it's a dull dull card. it's the two of clubs.
Hey don't you know how important your twos are if you're playing President?
| 909 |
LotharBot Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:44:16pm |
Breaking:
"The Taliban's top military leader, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, has been captured"
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
| 910 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:44:53pm |
| 911 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:44:53pm |
re: #850 palomino
Ironic that you go on about Americans' short memories and then deny something you wrote an hour ago, namely that you despise Obama voters.
Kudos on dishing out more hatred and hostility than anyone else at LGF.
You haven't truly arrived until you've been told "you don't count" by albusteve. :D
And then he repeats it again and again and again...
| 912 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:45:19pm |
Interesting account of a recent trip to Dubai.
| 913 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:45:33pm |
re: #882 jaunte
It's going to be hard for him to keep expropriating everything, when he's feeding his country with imported food.
Apparently he's conned himself into believing he's a regular Sam Walton.
| 914 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:45:44pm |
re: #904 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Seniority is not a pass. But it is a history.
It's a history, sure! It's information. What it should not be, is some magical status where you get to bully people who registered later.
| 915 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:46:05pm |
re: #909 LotharBot
Breaking:
"The Taliban's top military leader, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, has been captured"
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
*fistpump*
| 916 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:46:36pm |
I thought the whole union mentality was cool with libruls?
| 919 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:47:12pm |
re: #907 Racer X
In the Lizard Union.
Pay your dues and you get more benefits.
If only we all knew what the "dues" were. ;-) When someone tells me "I don't count" a hundred times, I get to find that childish and silly and I get to mock the dude saying that to me. Those are my rules.
| 920 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:47:17pm |
re: #900 WindUpBird
You know, there was that little detail with the 9.11 hijackers mostly coming from Saudi Arabia...
I don't feel exactly the way Windsagio does, but Saudi Arabia is a marriage of convenience.
Oh, feck me.
Saudi Arabia was a marriage of necessity contracted by the British Umpire and passed on to us when we bought their holdings at a fire sale. Tents, camels, asses, jenny-asses, women, and other chattel.
Only we didn't look too closely at the contract and they ended up owning us.
Viz. old vids of Rumsfeld with his tongue up the ass of various fifth-level sheikhs.
| 921 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:47:18pm |
re: #909 LotharBot
Red is positive. Black is negative.
Just sayin'.
| 922 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:47:57pm |
re: #906 The Sanity Inspector
Whichever of -->our women
Whichever of "our women" are up to it, I meant.
/ harpooned joke twitches its last on the deck.
| 923 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:48:03pm |
re: #902 Rightwingconspirator
Right wingnut.
Thank you. Its a little too late for me to be drawing the lines I should have been.
As someone to the right of the political spectrum he managed to fool some others to the light of the political spectrum.
As someone to the left nobody takes him seriously.
Does that say it better?
| 924 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:48:12pm |
| 925 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:48:24pm |
re: #913 The Sanity Inspector
Apparently he's conned himself into believing he's a regular Sam Walton.
I'm sure at some point his thinking goes "how hard could it be...?"
| 926 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:48:27pm |
re: #892 WindUpBird
Good point. It's like some people get a pass in spite of their frequent vitriolic explosions, just because they've been here a long time and are seen as harmless loveable passive-aggressive cranks. No matter what they say "it's just sarcasm."
Then again, I guess there's one in every family (crazy "uncle larry")
| 927 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:48:42pm |
re: #919 WindUpBird
If only we all knew what the "dues" were. ;-) When someone tells me "I don't count" a hundred times, I get to find that childish and silly and I get to mock the dude saying that to me. Those are my rules.
We all play by different rules.
| 928 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:48:55pm |
| 929 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:49:04pm |
re: #909 LotharBot
Posted above, but still a welcome reminder. I hope that scumbag is thoroughly interrogated, and is induced to tell everything he knows. This could be a key break for use.
| 930 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:49:27pm |
re: #920 Cato the Elder
Oh, feck me.
Saudi Arabia was a marriage of necessity contracted by the British Umpire and passed on to us when we bought their holdings at a fire sale. .
I'm not sure that word means what you think it does.
| 931 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:49:40pm |
re: #924 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Cato?
What's a "jenny-ass".
I'm intrigued.
The female counterpart of a jackass.
| 932 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:49:55pm |
re: #926 palomino
Good point. It's like some people get a pass in spite of their frequent vitriolic explosions, just because they've been here a long time and are seen as harmless loveable passive-aggressive cranks. No matter what they say "it's just sarcasm."
Then again, I guess there's one in every family (crazy "uncle larry")
I'm okay with vitriol! I hang out on far less moderated boards and internet social realms than LGF. I just want it to be acknowledged as vitriol :D
| 933 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:50:19pm |
re: #909 LotharBot
That reminds me: best exceptionally short conversation of the day as I was leaving Trader Joe's:
Blonde hippy with dread locks: "Sir! would you like to sign a petition to end the war in Afghanistan?"
Me: "No."
| 934 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:50:21pm |
| 935 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:50:50pm |
Hey Night Lizards!
I still don't get the whole Facebook concept. Do I have to? Does it have something to do with building social capital?
How is the evening going for you-all?
ooh, ooh, tomorrow is Westminster!
| 936 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:51:15pm |
re: #923 jamesfirecat
Sure. Says it perfect.
| 937 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:51:23pm |
re: #892 WindUpBird
Yes yes, we know, we have to hang out for years on LGF and seniority and blah blah blah.
Seniority means everything...except when it doesn't. Just because someone has been playing in the comments for years and people like them, doesn't mean they're immune to being challenged when they say crap that doesn't make sense. In the internets that I come from, seniority means nothing and ideas mean everything.
People keep playing the seniority card here, and it's a dull dull card. it's the two of clubs.
you want to be somebody...do it...challenge me if that's what you need...I don't give a shit about your insecurity as a noob...you guys are a dime a dozen...if rudeness, and anger, and inflammatory posts are your thing so be it....you are a leftist and have found some shelter and want to attack, go for it and earn your status through aggression and bad vibes...you decide who is fun and who is smart and who contributes...go ahead you unfun stump...do whatever you need to do to service your vanity
| 938 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:51:25pm |
| 939 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:51:31pm |
re: #911 WindUpBird
You haven't truly arrived until you've been told "you don't count" by albusteve. :D
And then he repeats it again and again and again...
But repetition by anyone else is "noise", while his counts as "wit."
As for "you don't count" I thought the point of LGF was minimizing that kind of uncivil discourse.
| 940 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:51:32pm |
re: #926 palomino
Uh... that's Crazy Uncle Nor round these parts.
| 941 |
The Sanity Inspector Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:51:36pm |
re: #904 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Seniority is not a pass. But it is a history.
If we have to pull rank with one another, I suggest this: Take your karma and divide it by your number of posts, once you've posted a statistically meaningful number of them. The result is a measure of the esteem you're held in by the community. If the result is greater than 1, then I don't know, we can put an oak leaf cluster in our profiles or something.
| 942 |
webevintage Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:51:47pm |
I'm not really into figure skating, but these two Chinese couples are something.
| 943 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:51:54pm |
re: #919 WindUpBird
If only we all knew what the "dues" were. ;-) When someone tells me "I don't count" a hundred times, I get to find that childish and silly and I get to mock the dude saying that to me. Those are my rules.
Are you getting your zionist checks monthly?
/
| 944 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:52:36pm |
re: #939 palomino
I thought the point of LGF was minimizing that kind of uncivil discourse.
So why are you engaging in it?
| 945 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:52:46pm |
re: #938 Bagua
Umpire.
I'm a vampire!
I'm an umpire!
I'm a bat!
I'm a bat!
You wouldn't hit a bat with glasses would you?
| 946 |
Mich-again Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:53:02pm |
There is a short list of posters who have been hanging around here longer than me but I never expect any special privileges based on "seniority". IMO once you are in, you have full rights to post whatever you want even on your first post. This is Charles house. If he lets someone in, thats good enough for me.
| 947 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:53:44pm |
| 948 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:53:51pm |
re: #941 The Sanity Inspector
If we have to pull rank with one another, I suggest this: Take your karma and divide it by your number of posts, once you've posted a statistically meaningful number of them. The result is a measure of the esteem you're held in by the community. If the result is greater than 1, then I don't know, we can put an oak leaf cluster in our profiles or something.
My goal is to someday have Karma equal to twice my number of posts!
| 949 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:53:58pm |
re: #890 Floral Giraffe
oh lord, here we go then... this'll take a while.
I don't consider J Wright and BOs Chicago background a dead horse at all...his seedy friends and strong arm politics define who he is...people have short memories...BO was made, otherwise there is simply nothing to him...this is why I despise the fools that voted for him
yes it is a leap and a disgusting one...I have zero use for that shit
I'll bet...if you added a tenth to any thread that Walters does, someone might notice...mostly your an opportunistic shark, more interested in piling on, hitching onto other peoples criticism...why don't you answer my question upthread about the NVA/RSVN?...too busy following Walters critics around?
you are becoming redundant to the point of real boredom...you've said this several times
not likely...they are getting the attention so important to them
riding the shirt tails of others, bitching about something they themselves can not do...pathetic
a lot goes over your head
hubris...it's an infection with some people
some empty headed people will try and use you to promote their own ego...it's just blog vanity...good job nevertheless...it's always the people that put zero effort into a subject that criticize the most...some good examples here tonight
a real beast eh?...you are someone else's poodle...I speak for myself
With the exception of the first one which is just random hating, I stuck to things that were actually personal attacks.
Is any of that 'civil'?
| 950 |
keloyd Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:54:04pm |
re: #899 windsagio
They've been hoisted by their own Wahbist petard then. Its sad.
The first 2 centuries of the Presbyterian Church was pretty much indistinguishable from that the Wahabis did to Sunni Islam. John Calvin's spin on Christianity = Muhammad Abd-al-Wahab's spin on Islam. Both parties wanted to get back to ol' time religion, preach hellfire and brimstone, distance themselves from decadant and distant royal powers, and preferred fightin to not fightin.
My point - today the Presbyterians are the most tolerant, bland, and 'establishment' denomination on the Erf, except for possibly the Episcopalians. If we can make that total change in culture and emphasis in about 2 centuries, so can they, given the right incentives and environment.
| 952 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:54:53pm |
re: #939 palomino
But repetition by anyone else is "noise", while his counts as "wit."
As for "you don't count" I thought the point of LGF was minimizing that kind of uncivil discourse.
quit attacking me, and I'll do the same...pretty simple
| 953 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:55:03pm |
| 954 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:55:04pm |
re: #945 jamesfirecat
You wouldn't hit a bat with glasses would you?
Difficult to say... there are a few ding-bats that I may give a mild slap to given the opportunity.
| 955 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:55:52pm |
re: #941 The Sanity Inspector
If we have to pull rank with one another, I suggest this: Take your karma and divide it by your number of posts, once you've posted a statistically meaningful number of them. The result is a measure of the esteem you're held in by the community. If the result is greater than 1, then I don't know, we can put an oak leaf cluster in our profiles or something.
That wouldn't work either. Karma is only as healthy as the web community handing it out. We've had posters with exceptionally high karma who were tools and are now banned. We've also had very nice inoffensive posters like avanti who had really negative karma for a while.
Also-- didn't the karma rating system come in after registration? What I'm getting at is, I think posters who racked up comments before karma are at a disadvantage compared to those of us, like myself, who registered once karma was in play. We always had a better chance to at least 'break even' in terms of karma matching number of posts, that is.
Karma is basically a way for the community to police itself, nothing more.
| 956 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:56:22pm |
re: #941 The Sanity Inspector
If we have to pull rank with one another, I suggest this: Take your karma and divide it by your number of posts, once you've posted a statistically meaningful number of them. The result is a measure of the esteem you're held in by the community. If the result is greater than 1, then I don't know, we can put an oak leaf cluster in our profiles or something.
Not necessarily. Some of us had racked-up quite a number of posts Pre-karma. Karma is arelatively new thing on LGF.
| 957 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:56:36pm |
re: #932 WindUpBird
Sometimes the vitriol does get noticed. But for the veterans here, there's a lot more leeway. They practically have to threaten someone or discuss their mother before they get called out.
| 958 |
Mich-again Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:56:40pm |
re: #935 ggt
I still don't get the whole Facebook concept. Do I have to?..
ooh, ooh, tomorrow is Westminster!
I visit FB every day to see what my friends and family are up to. I usually lurk, occasionally comment. I'd rather just send private messages to the people I have something to say to.
As for Westminster, it was on earlier tonite here, but there will be more tommorrow. Its just not the same without Joe Garagiola making wiseass comments about every dog. I miss him on that show.
| 959 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:56:52pm |
re: #950 keloyd
The first 2 centuries of the Presbyterian Church was pretty much indistinguishable from that the Wahabis did to Sunni Islam. John Calvin's spin on Christianity = Muhammad Abd-al-Wahab's spin on Islam. Both parties wanted to get back to ol' time religion, preach hellfire and brimstone, distance themselves from decadant and distant royal powers, and preferred fightin to not fightin.
My point - today the Presbyterians are the most tolerant, bland, and 'establishment' denomination on the Erf, except for possibly the Episcopalians. If we can make that total change in culture and emphasis in about 2 centuries, so can they, given the right incentives and environment.
Proud to be a bland as unbuttered toast Presbyterian! It made my shift into agnosticism so subtle I didn't even notice it!
| 960 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:57:05pm |
re: #892 WindUpBird
I won't agree, to a certain extent. I will agree that longevity on this site is not a "get out of jail free card". I will disagree, because YEARS of meaningful discourse, DO count for more that a week old newbies postings, for the most part. Now, there have been & will be fabulous newbies ( your definition may vary) and terrible "old timers".
BUT.
I think the "old timers" have seen & participated in a lot, that the Noobs need to learn.
AGAIN.
It varies by poster.
| 961 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:57:13pm |
I see Doug Wild or "Mosh" or whoeverthepiss is still here.
Got anything to say? Or did my piranha talk make you poop?
Bring it.
| 962 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:57:14pm |
It's not surprising people don't want to talk about the news.
The International Monetary Fund expects that by the end of the year, global economic growth will reach its lowest point since the Depression, according to Charles Collyns, deputy director of the fund’s research department. The fund said that growth had come to “a virtual halt,” with developed economies expected to shrink by 2 percent in 2009.“This is the worst we’ve had since 1929,” said Laurent Wauquiez, France’s employment minister. “The thing that is new is that it is global, and we are always talking about that. It is in every country, and it makes the whole difference.”
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 963 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:58:25pm |
OK. The Hamas store up the corner has halvah.
Back in a bit.
| 964 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:58:49pm |
re: #961 Cato the Elder
I see Doug Wild or "Mosh" or whoeverthepiss is still here.
Got anything to say? Or did my piranha talk make you poop?
Bring it.
He's probably pissing his pants at the thought of facing you, Cato. That or his parents made him come out of the basement for dinner.
| 965 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:59:18pm |
re: #962 jaunte
It's not surprising people don't want to talk about the news.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Thats not the Change many here in America expected.
| 966 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:59:33pm |
re: #944 Bagua
So why are you engaging in it?
What did I say that was uncivil? Calling out a guy who says he despises all Obama voters is uncivil?
| 967 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:59:41pm |
re: #950 keloyd
To some degree, the problem really has been its use as a political tool by the House O' Saud. Its only recently that theres been some blowback.
| 968 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:59:44pm |
| 969 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:00:01pm |
| 970 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:00:06pm |
re: #955 iceweasel
And then we have Spacejesus. :D
| 971 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:00:40pm |
re: #949 windsagio
get off my case and let me post what I want...you are nobody special...Charles writes the rules around here...you take a swipe at me and I'll punch you back...show some class and you'll see the same from me...you sound like a sore loser, but what goes round comes round...people that call Walter a liar deserve less that what you got from me
| 972 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:00:48pm |
re: #970 WindUpBird
I was dissapointed, he's not actually negative that much. I was hoping for him to have like -1000.
| 973 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:01:42pm |
re: #971 albusteve
dude, floral giraffe said you were civil. I was proving my point.
I don't mind people flinging crap, its the blind double standard that bugs me :P
| 974 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:01:47pm |
re: #948 jamesfirecat
My goal is to someday have Karma equal to twice my number of posts!
"You may say, I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one."
-Lenon
| 975 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:02:17pm |
Top Taliban Commander Captured
WASHINGTON — The Taliban’s top military commander was captured several days ago in Karachi, Pakistan, in a secret joint operation by Pakistani and American intelligence forces, according to American government officials.
The commander, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, is an Afghan described by American officials as the most significant Taliban figure to be detained since the American-led war in Afghanistan started more than eight years ago. He ranks second in influence only to Mullah Muhammad Omar, the Taliban’s founder and a close associate of Osama bin Laden before the Sept. 11th attacks.
Dick Cheney can suck my balls.
| 976 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:02:18pm |
re: #966 palomino
What did I say that was uncivil? Calling out a guy who says he despises all Obama voters is uncivil?
You called him out on personal terms, and followed up with the 'crazy' stuff.
| 977 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:02:20pm |
re: #914 WindUpBird
It's a history, sure! It's information. What it should not be, is some magical status where you get to bully people who registered later.
You are the one who used the word "bully". FBV & I used "history".
| 978 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:02:37pm |
re: #972 windsagio
I was dissapointed, he's not actually negative that much. I was hoping for him to have like -1000.
Oh he used to! So did avanti at one point, so just imagine how far in the red SJ was.
It was a sad day for Space Jesus when his karma crept up above negative 1000.
| 980 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:03:10pm |
re: #972 windsagio
I was dissapointed, he's not actually negative that much. I was hoping for him to have like -1000.
At one point he had more than -1800. Since the Great Flouncing, he's turned his hell-raising inclinations on the stalker blog and HotAir instead.
| 981 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:03:26pm |
re: #964 Dark_Falcon
He's probably pissing his pants at the thought of facing you, Cato. That or his parents made him come out of the basement for dinner.
I'm still surprised that Charles hasn't gotten around to taking a look about his IP address or whatever he does.
Or maybe he wants us to have some fun playing him like a cat with a rubber mouse.
Or maybe I shouldn't be assuming to tell Charles how to police his own domain, since he's had plenty of practice at it....
| 982 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:03:27pm |
re: #966 palomino
What did I say that was uncivil? Calling out a guy who says he despises all Obama voters is uncivil?
so what?...you have a problem being despised?...you despise me, so what's the difference?
| 983 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:03:48pm |
re: #980 Dark_Falcon
At one point he had more than -1800. Since the Great Flouncing, he's turned his hell-raising inclinations on the stalker blog and HotAir instead.
He's a member of the stalker blog?
| 984 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:03:53pm |
re: #978 iceweasel
thats just crazy.
In general alot of people overvalue karma on here anyways. A + or - ding often means little more than a marker of which side you're on.
| 985 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:04:07pm |
When I had the opportunity to post more and was here for hatchling arrivals, I'd post this:
'LGF is a tough room. Lizards have thick skins, made mostly of scar tissue. '
| 986 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:04:35pm |
re: #979 lazardo
I think of him as a left wingnut. And a Ratings rabbit.
| 987 |
lazardo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:04:43pm |
re: #984 windsagio
thats just crazy.
In general alot of people overvalue karma on here anyways. A + or - ding often means little more than a marker of which side you're on.
I seem to be the only user here proud of their own negative-karma post. Or rather, slew of them.
| 988 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:05:05pm |
re: #985 ggt
the problem is that they turn a blind eye to their friends. Human nature I guess :P
| 989 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:05:15pm |
re: #978 iceweasel
Oh he used to! So did avanti at one point, so just imagine how far in the red SJ was.
It was a sad day for Space Jesus when his karma crept up above negative 1000.
And me? Are you so callous?
I used to get 57 flavas of downdings for one anti-Sarah post.
Sigh.
| 990 |
lazardo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:05:20pm |
re: #986 Rightwingconspirator
I think of him as a left wingnut. And a Ratings rabbit.
Well, I suppose there's a point where the craziness eventually meets.
/and that's Nazism.
//checks Godwin's law on the list
| 991 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:05:29pm |
re: #941 The Sanity Inspector
If we have to pull rank with one another, I suggest this: Take your karma and divide it by your number of posts, once you've posted a statistically meaningful number of them. The result is a measure of the esteem you're held in by the community. If the result is greater than 1, then I don't know, we can put an oak leaf cluster in our profiles or something.
Except, that there are some, if not many, here, who do not live or die by their LGF Karma. What are you going to do with YOUR Karma?
Out of curiosity...
| 992 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:05:36pm |
re: #979 lazardo
...Keith Olbermann is a wingnut now? o:
John Avlon uses the term to refer to crazies on both the right and the left.
| 993 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:05:37pm |
re: #980 Dark_Falcon
Really? I just don't lurk there but that must be a sight to see. Love to see a SJ Greatest Hits someday.
| 994 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:05:38pm |
re: #987 lazardo
my most negative post is, strangely, one where I suggested putting all the military spending money into NASA. People freaked.
| 995 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:05:49pm |
re: #984 windsagio
thats just crazy.
In general alot of people overvalue karma on here anyways. A + or - ding often means little more than a marker of which side you're on.
Agreed, and in general the + ding is more meaningful and evenly dispersed. The - dings are nearly meaningless as a group.
| 996 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:05:56pm |
re: #987 lazardo
I seem to be the only user here proud of their own negative-karma post. Or rather, slew of them.
I think albusteve is in that same boat actually.......
| 997 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:06:01pm |
re: #973 windsagio
dude, floral giraffe said you were civil. I was proving my point.
I don't mind people flinging crap, its the blind double standard that bugs me :P
I don't consider all your posts civil...it's your double standard...look at what you yourself have posted..quit making everything so butthurt and move on...you win some, you lose some...this hair salon gossip shit drags me down
| 998 |
keloyd Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:06:51pm |
re: #979 lazardo
...Keith Olbermann is a wingnut now? o:
"Wingnut" just means "radical" according to Wiki and Mirriam-Webster. We seem to associate it with the right wing. I guess the rightward meaning is newer(?)
| 999 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:07:02pm |
| 1000 |
Mich-again Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:07:11pm |
re: #967 windsagio
One interesting thing the Sauds are getting away with is the methodical bulldozing of historical sites tied to the prophet under the guise of combatting idolatry. If an Israeli with a shovel gets within a mile of an Islamic historical site the muslim world goes apeshit in protest. But for some reason its OK for a wahabbi on a bulldozer in the magic kingdom to level historical buildings that go back many centuries to the early days of Islam.
| 1001 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:07:11pm |
re: #989 Cato the Elder
And me? Are you so callous?
I used to get 57 flavas of downdings for one anti-Sarah post.
Sigh.
Yeah, that was before I registered here. I would have liked seeing that!
Actually I swore off reading the LGF comment threads from August 2008 til about Jan 2009. It wasn't any fun at all to see the level of sheer delusion (and rage) going on. Especially about the Grifter.
| 1002 |
Racer X Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:07:36pm |
re: #989 Cato the Elder
Speaking of Sarah - I laughed when I saw this.
| 1003 |
Irenicum Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:07:50pm |
Just popping in for a quick post of a NYT's article about the Teabaggers. Reading it right now. So far so good. Quite interesting.
| 1004 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:07:54pm |
re: #999 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I HAVE TO BE LOVED! AAARRRGGGHHH!
(ding me?)
Every one loves their Friendly Neighbourhood Fat Bastard Vegetarian!
| 1005 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:08:01pm |
re: #989 Cato the Elder
And me? Are you so callous?
I used to get 57 flavas of downdings for one anti-Sarah post.
Sigh.
those are the good old days...you have waned with the times
| 1006 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:08:04pm |
re: #998 keloyd
It cycles with whoever is out of the majority. seems to me anyway.
| 1007 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:08:06pm |
G'night knuckleheads.
Walter? Thanks.
| 1008 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:08:23pm |
re: #995 Bagua
Agreed, and in general the + ding is more meaningful and evenly dispersed. The - dings are nearly meaningless as a group.
Really?
I feel the exact opposite (big surprise I guess....)
I find that these days it seems like the vast majority of posts are either green or black, so when you see a post that has actually gone into the red, it shows somebody who is really out of bounds at the moment.... most of the time at least.
| 1009 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:08:26pm |
re: #991 Floral Giraffe
you never replied to my 949. Are you willing to make a retraction?
| 1011 |
lazardo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:08:43pm |
re: #998 keloyd
"Wingnut" just means "radical" according to Wiki and Mirriam-Webster. We seem to associate it with the right wing. I guess the rightward meaning is newer(?)
There's a fan forum for the Pixar movie Cars called Wingnut City.
Funny how things turn out.
| 1012 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:09:05pm |
re: #983 Bagua
He's a member of the stalker blog?
Not really. He has an account there he sometimes uses to raid them and raise Hell.
| 1013 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:09:20pm |
re: #948 jamesfirecat
My goal is to someday have Karma equal to twice my number of posts!
Why?
What do you expect to have happen to you if this should occur?
Rapture?
| 1014 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:09:35pm |
re: #988 windsagio
the problem is that they turn a blind eye to their friends. Human nature I guess :P
I think you are missing the point. I'll translate:
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
| 1016 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:09:44pm |
re: #1012 Dark_Falcon
Not really. He has an account there he sometimes uses to raid them and raise Hell.
He's a mole troll....
| 1017 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:09:57pm |
re: #952 albusteve
quit attacking me, and I'll do the same...pretty simple
Now I'm the attacker?
I've only been here a couple of months, but if I had a nickel for each time you've started a comment "bullshit" or "fuck off", well, I'd have a really heavy bag of nickels.
Then there's the "I don't give a shit what anyone thinks" standard retort; but of course you DO care, otherwise you wouldn't read and post so zealously.
Your whole shtick is stale. But I won't attack you anymore, as you ask, since a few folks here see you as their mascot or court jester.
| 1018 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:10:12pm |
| 1019 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:10:20pm |
re: #1014 ggt
dude, this place is nothing. If you think lgf is 'heat', you need to wander around the internet some.
This place is full of cute little puppies with fuzzy tummies.
| 1020 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:10:24pm |
re: #1008 jamesfirecat
Really?
I feel the exact opposite (big surprise I guess...)
I find that these days it seems like the vast majority of posts are either green or black, so when you see a post that has actually gone into the red, it shows somebody who is really out of bounds at the moment... most of the time at least.
Well, I'm speaking from a statistical point of view, not emotions. I agree that the emotional reaction to a - ding is much higher, but that its real value in terms of group dynamics is far smaller.
| 1021 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:10:32pm |
India is thinking about downdinging China.
India Worries as China Builds
Ports in South Asia
As trade in the region grows more lucrative, China has been developing port facilities in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Myanmar, and it is planning to build railroad lines in Nepal. These projects, analysts say, are part of a concerted effort by Chinese leaders and companies to open and expand markets for their goods and services in a part of Asia that has lagged behind the rest of the continent in trade and economic development.But these initiatives are irking India, whose government worries that China is expanding its sphere of regional influence by surrounding India with a “string of pearls” that could eventually undermine India’s pre-eminence and potentially rise to an economic and security threat.
| 1022 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:10:33pm |
re: #1006 Rightwingconspirator
It cycles with whoever is out of the majority. seems to me anyway.
I always thought that wingnut was for the right only since there was the perfectly good "moonbat" for the lefties.
| 1023 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:11:21pm |
re: #1012 Dark_Falcon
Not really. He has an account there he sometimes uses to raid them and raise Hell.
So you are saying he has an active account there and posts there as a troll?
| 1024 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:11:22pm |
re: #1018 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I"m too young! I'm just reacting to the dark ennui of my upbringing!
(damn grunge/goths!)
| 1025 |
lazardo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:11:50pm |
re: #1013 Floral Giraffe
Why?
What do you expect to have happen to you if this should occur?
Rapture?
Cool, free Blondie reunion concert tickets!
/embedding disabled.
| 1026 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:12:16pm |
re: #1013 Floral Giraffe
Why?
What do you expect to have happen to you if this should occur?
Rapture?
I believe I made my theory on how at 500,000 karma or karma equal to triple your total number of posts if number of posts you've made exceeds 1000 Charles sends you a free hair extension kit made of his own hair in the past.....
| 1027 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:12:24pm |
re: #1022 jamesfirecat
I always thought that wingnut was for the right only since there was the perfectly good "moonbat" for the lefties.
Yes. Wingnut is a contraction of "right wing nut".
| 1028 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:12:30pm |
There was a karma fetishist
Who couldn't get an upding. Hist!
Though he was minus-karma numbered
He saw it as "I'm unencumbered"!
| 1029 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:12:36pm |
re: #1017 palomino
Your whole shtick is stale. But I won't attack you anymore, as you ask, since a few folks here see you as their mascot or court jester.
That's an example of what I meant by incivility.
| 1030 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:12:48pm |
re: #1009 windsagio
you never replied to my 949. Are you willing to make a retraction?
and you never replied to my #173...there's your double standard right there...you don't fool anyone...are you willing to explain yourself, or am I hating on you?
| 1031 |
lazardo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:13:08pm |
re: #994 windsagio
my most negative post is, strangely, one where I suggested putting all the military spending money into NASA. People freaked.
We're long overdue for space-based laser weaponry...
/once figured, withdraw all the troops, and when the terrorists come out to celebrate, push the big red button and sit back, laughing. :D
| 1032 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:13:52pm |
re: #1022 jamesfirecat
HaHa! I guess we each have our own vocabulary. Moonbat was never big with me.
| 1033 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:14:05pm |
re: #1019 windsagio
dude, this place is nothing. If you think lgf is 'heat', you need to wander around the internet some.
This place is full of cute little puppies with fuzzy tummies.
if it is so warm and fuzzy, why do you whine? Or is it just one person you can't seem to ignore?
| 1034 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:14:30pm |
re: #981 jamesfirecat
I'm still surprised that Charles hasn't gotten around to taking a look about his IP address or whatever he does.
Or maybe he wants us to have some fun playing him like a cat with a rubber mouse.domain, since he's had plenty of practice at it...
| 1035 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:14:49pm |
re: #1031 lazardo
We're long overdue for space-based laser weaponry...
/once figured, withdraw all the troops, and when the terrorists come out to celebrate, push the big red button and sit back, laughing. :D
I for one say that our technical superiority over our foes must not only be unquestionable, it must reach James Bond Villian levels!
| 1036 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:14:54pm |
re: #1027 iceweasel
Prefer Moonbat?
J/K!
| 1037 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:15:32pm |
re: #1017 palomino
Now I'm the attacker?
I've only been here a couple of months, but if I had a nickel for each time you've started a comment "bullshit" or "fuck off", well, I'd have a really heavy bag of nickels.
Then there's the "I don't give a shit what anyone thinks" standard retort; but of course you DO care, otherwise you wouldn't read and post so zealously.
Your whole shtick is stale. But I won't attack you anymore, as you ask, since a few folks here see you as their mascot or court jester.
bullshit and fuck off are common blog terms...you see it everywhere..yes I read and post, and yes, in certain cases (like yours) I don't give a shit...but instead of ignoring me you want to attack...go ahead, but it will not promote your status with me
| 1038 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:15:57pm |
re: #1023 Bagua
So you are saying he has an active account there and posts there as a troll?
Yes, but I call him a "Barbarian Raider" instead of a troll.
| 1039 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:16:04pm |
re: #1030 albusteve
I read back up just for you. I don't really have much to say to your 173, except I think you're wrong... and its not a mainstream belief that South Viet Nam would have stayed independent except for Watergate.
| 1040 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:16:15pm |
re: #1029 Bagua
That's an example of what I meant by incivility.
You're right, not very nice; I shouldn't have said it.
But can you honestly say that comes close to the incivility of all the "fuck offs", "bullshits" and blanket hostile generalizations posted by steve?
| 1041 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:16:54pm |
re: #1037 albusteve
bullshit and fuck off are common blog terms...you see it everywhere..yes I read and post, and yes, in certain cases (like yours) I don't give a shit...but instead of ignoring me you want to attack...go ahead, but it will not promote your status with me
Nor with me either.
| 1042 |
Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:17:04pm |
That was a good figure skating competition. I am glad the older Chinese couple won the gold, although I think the younger Chinese pair skated a stronger program. Lots of falling down on their tuchis.
| 1043 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:17:14pm |
re: #1033 ggt
If you don't like my posts, downding them, or even report them to Charles.
You're sure willing to complain about a post you don't like, but I wouldn't call it 'whining' :p
| 1044 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:17:15pm |
re: #1012 Dark_Falcon
Not really. He has an account there he sometimes uses to raid them and raise Hell.
I think they finally banned and blocked him, lol. They got vewy angwy when CJ commented here about Space Jesus trolling them and laughed at them, IIRC. A bunch of us were laughing at them, at any rate.
The only comment I remember was SJ saying "this place smells like old men and Cheetos" or something like that. :)
| 1045 |
goddamnedfrank Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:17:27pm |
re: #948 jamesfirecat
My goal is to someday have Karma equal to twice my number of posts!
I'm at 1.58:1 with a bullet, punch it! Looking to get a ∏:1 ratio, because I like pie.
| 1046 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:18:15pm |
re: #999 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I HAVE TO BE LOVED! AAARRRGGGHHH!
(ding me?)
No, but just this once!
You're a loveable ding whore.
Did you get the garage wall fixed?
| 1047 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:18:33pm |
re: #1043 windsagio
If you don't like my posts, downding them, or even report them to Charles.
You're sure willing to complain about a post you don't like, but I wouldn't call it 'whining' :p
I don't complain. I call it like I see it.
| 1048 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:19:15pm |
re: #1036 Rightwingconspirator
Prefer Moonbat?
J/K!
I embraced "moonbat" because at the time that I registered (April or May) I figured there was a strong likelihood I'd be called one anyway. I'm still more conservative than 3/4ths of Daily Kos though.
I'm not really following this conversation.
| 1049 |
webevintage Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:19:16pm |
re: #1042 Alouette
That was a good figure skating competition. I am glad the older Chinese couple won the gold, although I think the younger Chinese pair skated a stronger program. Lots of falling down on their tuchis.
I think they won because of their better scores on the short program.
[Link: www.nbcolympics.com...]
I'm not even that into figure skating and I thought they were both just wonderful tonight.
| 1050 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:19:22pm |
| 1051 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:19:47pm |
re: #1040 palomino
You're right, not very nice; I shouldn't have said it.
But can you honestly say that comes close to the incivility of all the "fuck offs", "bullshits" and blanket hostile generalizations posted by steve?
There is no Moonbat
There is no Wingnut
All it is is wind from the hills
--Old Zen saying
P.S. Take a deep breath
| 1052 |
Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:20:02pm |
I meant to say lots of falling down on the tuchis by everyone except for the Chinese skaters. Even the bronze-winning Germans had a tuchis event. That must put them in a bad mood for the rest of their performance.
| 1053 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:20:03pm |
re: #1009 windsagio
No, but thanks EVER SO for the effort.
| 1054 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:20:18pm |
re: #1044 iceweasel
That is really hilarious.
| 1055 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:20:44pm |
re: #1047 ggt
of course, other people complain, you don't.
Gotcha.
I to be honest I normally just mock or ignore the attacks, but somebody made the rediculous claim that an uncivil person was civil, and that just had to be disproven.
And, disprove it I did.
| 1056 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:20:48pm |
re: #1051 Cato the Elder
There is no Moonbat
There is no Wingnut
All it is is wind from the hills--Old Zen saying
P.S. Take a deep breath
Take a deep breath and always remember to use your voodoo doll.
| 1057 |
Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:21:05pm |
I really enjoyed watching the figure skaters. I'm very glad that I got this wide screen TV to watch sports.
| 1058 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:21:09pm |
geez, gotta go again.
I miss the days when I could complete a thought.
hang in there all!
| 1059 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:21:29pm |
re: #1039 windsagio
I read back up just for you. I don't really have much to say to your 173, except I think you're wrong... and its not a mainstream belief that South Viet Nam would have stayed independent except for Watergate.
To be fair Wind, I'm the one that said that and I don't hold that belief based on its being mainstream. It's based on my own read of of the facts on the ground. And I'm not sure it would have remained independent, just that it would have had a chance to do so. A chance that the left denied it by cutting military aid.
| 1060 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:21:36pm |
re: #1037 albusteve
but instead of ignoring me you want to attack...go ahead, but it will not promote your status with me
I attack what I think are bad ideas, like everyone else here. You post them, they are open to attack. My saying you have ODS is pretty mild when you call him a "fucking idiot" and say you despise all his voters.
Does it seem like I care about my status with you?
| 1061 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:22:13pm |
re: #1054 Rightwingconspirator
That is really hilarious.
I love SpaceJesus. :-)
I wish I could remember his exact comment, it was very very funny.
| 1062 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:22:15pm |
re: #1040 palomino
You're right, not very nice; I shouldn't have said it.
Thank you.
But can you honestly say that comes close to the incivility of all the "fuck offs", "bullshits" and blanket hostile generalizations posted by steve?
Blanket statements are generally less personal by definition, and BS is a bit common, though surely rude. What I object to more is suggesting that someone is personally crazy, or otherwise defective, rather than just saying what they posted is nonsense or disagreeable.
My only observation on this thread is that dropping all personal incivility is the best way to de-escalate, if that is one's intention.
| 1063 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:22:22pm |
re: #1048 Conservative Moonbat
Sometimes I think the Registered Democrats Most Likely to Vote are more conservative than Kos.
| 1064 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:22:34pm |
re: #1040 palomino
You're right, not very nice; I shouldn't have said it.
But can you honestly say that comes close to the incivility of all the "fuck offs", "bullshits" and blanket hostile generalizations posted by steve?
your infatuation with me is understandable I guess...on the other hand it would behoove you to move on to other, softer targets with your civility tripe....remember!...I don't give a shit
| 1065 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:22:53pm |
re: #1059 Dark_Falcon
fair enough, I just disagree with you :p
My impression is that the South Veitnamese gov't and military was shattered, and loss was going to eventually happen. At most, Watergate accelerated it.
| 1066 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:22:57pm |
re: #1044 iceweasel
I think they finally banned and blocked him, lol. They got vewy angwy when CJ commented here about Space Jesus trolling them and laughed at them, IIRC. A bunch of us were laughing at them, at any rate.
The only comment I remember was SJ saying "this place smells like old men and Cheetos" or something like that. :)
Maybe.
But he's SpaceJesus.
He can create new ISPs ex nihilo.
I very much suspect he's still there, twisting pubes.
| 1067 |
lazardo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:23:16pm |
re: #1051 Cato the Elder
There is no Moonbat
There is no Wingnut
All it is is wind from the rectum--Old Zen saying, adapted into New English
Bad craziness stinks.
| 1068 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:23:47pm |
re: #1044 iceweasel
I think they finally banned and blocked him, lol. They got vewy angwy when CJ commented here about Space Jesus trolling them and laughed at them, IIRC. A bunch of us were laughing at them, at any rate.
The only comment I remember was SJ saying "this place smells like old men and Cheetos" or something like that. :)
Maybe, I'm not sure.
| 1069 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:24:55pm |
re: #1061 iceweasel
I do not know but I really think most of his downdings were baited. There is a whole 'nother level of subtle going on there.
| 1070 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:24:59pm |
re: #1066 Cato the Elder
Maybe.But he's SpaceJesus.
He can create new ISPs ex nihilo.
I very much suspect he's still there, twisting pubes.
Oh definitely. If he isn't trolling them at the moment it's only because he's got better things to do. The second he wants to post there, SpaceJesus will appear!
| 1071 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:25:02pm |
| 1072 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:25:32pm |
re: #1065 windsagio
fair enough, I just disagree with you :p
My impression is that the South Veitnamese gov't and military was shattered, and loss was going to eventually happen. At most, Watergate accelerated it.
That was true of Cambodia, but South Vietnam was a different case. The ARVN had actually done a decent job in fighting off the NVA's Easter Offensive in 1972.
| 1073 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:26:11pm |
albusteve has ODS...it's official...but albusteve is greatly unimpressed with his new status and that fuck's up everything...w00t!
| 1074 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:26:19pm |
| 1076 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:26:34pm |
re: #1026 jamesfirecat
That grossed me out the last time you posted it.
I still think it's gross.
And you are less clever than you think you are.
Your mileage may vary.
| 1077 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:27:50pm |
re: #1064 albusteve
your infatuation with me is understandable I guess...on the other hand it would behoove you to move on to other, softer targets with your civility tripe...remember!...I don't give a shit
Don't worry, I'll find a way to get over my crush on you.
I guess you should be proud of your misanthropic "i don't give a shit" motto.
But really, if you don't give a shit, why are you here posting so passionately and frequently? Why even respond to me?
| 1078 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:28:16pm |
re: #1065 windsagio
fair enough, I just disagree with you :p
My impression is that the South Veitnamese gov't and military was shattered, and loss was going to eventually happen. At most, Watergate accelerated it.
Yeah, I mean they had a government so corrupt and tight fisted that they were cracking down on Buddhists.
I think ABC (Anybody But Communists) was a bad idea for a policy, and for proof I submit all the people in the Middle East we supported against the Soviets and then went to war against a few decades down the line....
| 1080 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:29:20pm |
ok last thing, can people seriously look at the interactions between palomino and steve and honestly say that steve isn't baiting pal or egging on the fight?
The problem isn't that things like that happen (its a blog afterall), its that people pretend its not happening, and even go on to blame the victim...
| 1082 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:30:14pm |
re: #1029 Bagua
That's an example of what I meant by incivility.
A perfect example of why -1 dings are largely meaningless here.
| 1083 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:30:19pm |
re: #1080 windsagio
ok last thing, can people seriously look at the interactions between palomino and steve and honestly say that steve isn't baiting pal or egging on the fight?
The problem isn't that things like that happen (its a blog afterall), its that people pretend its not happening, and even go on to blame the victim...
Waste of a thread.
| 1085 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:31:00pm |
re: #1076 Floral Giraffe
That grossed me out the last time you posted it.
I still think it's gross.
And you are less clever than you think you are.
Your mileage may vary.
YMMV is a constant for human life. But given that wigs made of human hair are a very well known item I fail to see why I the idea should be off limits for satire....
| 1086 |
windsagio Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:31:06pm |
re: #1081 Racer X
truth and justice and all that good stuff.
| 1087 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:31:12pm |
| 1088 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:31:43pm |
re: #1065 windsagio
fair enough, I just disagree with you :p
My impression is that the South Veitnamese gov't and military was shattered, and loss was going to eventually happen. At most, Watergate accelerated it.
the RSVN forces were not shattered, where did you get that notion?..in fact the NVA were no longer able to field even one fighting division...the dem congress sold out to the commies and refused to budget the arms and air power to decisively stop the NVA once and for all....the donks were pissed at Nixons re-election in 72 and took it out on the RSVN...that's a fact...and millions died in the bloody aftermath, considering the fall of Cambodia to the Khmer Rouge...your history is jr high at best
| 1091 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:32:56pm |
re: #1077 palomino
Don't worry, I'll find a way to get over my crush on you.
I guess you should be proud of your misanthropic "i don't give a shit" motto.
But really, if you don't give a shit, why are you here posting so passionately and frequently? Why even respond to me?
because I'm a nice guy and will try to answer your questions...if I feel like it
| 1092 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:33:17pm |
re: #1080 windsagio
ok last thing, can people seriously look at the interactions between palomino and steve and honestly say that steve isn't baiting pal or egging on the fight?
The problem isn't that things like that happen (its a blog afterall), its that people pretend its not happening, and even go on to blame the victim...
So, what?
| 1093 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:33:32pm |
re: #1078 jamesfirecat
Yeah, I mean they had a government so corrupt and tight fisted that they were cracking down on Buddhists.
I think ABC (Anybody But Communists) was a bad idea for a policy, and for proof I submit all the people in the Middle East we supported against the Soviets and then went to war against a few decades down the line...
I didn't do us so great in Central and South America either. Chavez isn't a problem. Unlike other South American countries you don't see Venezuela sending economic refugees north in search of work. They might have jobs standing around all day doing nothing, but they all have jobs.
| 1094 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:33:38pm |
re: #1080 windsagio
ok last thing, can people seriously look at the interactions between palomino and steve and honestly say that steve isn't baiting pal or egging on the fight?
The problem isn't that things like that happen (its a blog afterall), its that people pretend its not happening, and even go on to blame the victim...
Of course he's baiting. That's his stock in trade. But he gets a pass on it because it's just "steve being steve". We just don't "get" his sarcasm or post-modern form of political discourse.
| 1095 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:34:11pm |
re: #1080 windsagio
ok last thing, can people seriously look at the interactions between palomino and steve and honestly say that steve isn't baiting pal or egging on the fight?
The problem isn't that things like that happen (its a blog afterall), its that people pretend its not happening, and even go on to blame the victim...
are you really this desperate for attention?..a new low I think
| 1096 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:35:01pm |
re: #1093 Conservative Moonbat
I didn't do us so great in Central and South America either. Chavez isn't a problem. Unlike other South American countries you don't see Venezuela sending economic refugees north in search of work. They might have jobs standing around all day doing nothing, but they all have jobs.
They have teamsters in Venezuela?
| 1097 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:35:13pm |
re: #1080 windsagio
ok last thing, can people seriously look at the interactions between palomino and steve and honestly say that steve isn't baiting pal or egging on the fight?
The problem isn't that things like that happen (its a blog afterall), its that people pretend its not happening, and even go on to blame the victim...
The issue is larger than a spat between two individuals. It creates a climate that discourages new posters, and may even keep people from registering.
And that is extremely bad for the blog, and CJ's bottom line.
| 1098 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:35:40pm |
re: #1085 jamesfirecat
Do you really want to know?
Dude! You're looking for real hair from our bog host.
I don't know him & I'll wager you don't either.
Does he donate his hair?
I don't know.
Would you (Seriously) want the hair of someone you knew?
I don't know.
IMHO, it's ICKY.
Can we just agree to disagree?
| 1100 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:36:20pm |
re: #1084 Stonemason
Victim? it's a blog
it's more than that to some people...it's an obsession of grievance and likability....ding!
| 1101 |
Irenicum Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:36:21pm |
Well, I just finished the NYT's article about the tea party movement. It's long at 5 internet pages, but well worth the read. I felt like I was rereading much of what's been previously reported here at LGF. What I'm sure though is that the teapartyers are going to be "outraged" (of course) at the mentioning of the right wing militias in the Pacific NW along with the TPers. But the article does a good job of showing the parallels that do exist. And some of the direct quotes offered up in the article are the typical scary stuff we've all seen in the stuff Charles has linked to. Again, a good piece. And on that happy note, g'nite and have a pleasant tomorrow.
| 1102 |
Jadespring Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:36:23pm |
re: #1013 Floral Giraffe
Why?
What do you expect to have happen to you if this should occur?
Rapture?
My theory is that some people, mostly male is seems, are just more generally obsessed with their ding-a-lings. So nothing really would happen except some sort of personal ding-a-ling satisfaction.
| 1103 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:36:46pm |
re: #1096 jamesfirecat
They have teamsters in Venezuela?
They have large socialized unions, yes. That's sorta the point.
| 1104 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:37:01pm |
Employment in Venezuela:
the percentage of people employed in the formal sector overall went from 55.5% in 2007 to 56.8% in 2008.
The 'formal sector' is what we call jobs here. the 'informal sector' includes panhandling, or any other untaxed economic activity.
[Link: www.venezuelanalysis.com...]
| 1105 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:37:57pm |
re: #1095 albusteve
are you really this desperate for attention?..a new low I think
Now of course this little insult is OK because it's all part of Steve's little act.
So totally logical, why don't you get it?
| 1106 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:38:36pm |
re: #1094 palomino
Of course he's baiting. That's his stock in trade. But he gets a pass on it because it's just "steve being steve". We just don't "get" his sarcasm or post-modern form of political discourse.
every single post on this subject has been in reply....I'm not baiting anybody, that's a perverse wet dream you guys have...scroll, if you don't like something
| 1107 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:38:48pm |
re: #1097 iceweasel
The issue is larger than a spat between two individuals. It creates a climate that discourages new posters, and may even keep people from registering.
And that is extremely bad for the blog, and CJ's bottom line.
I like to say that something rare is going on here, conservative, moderate and liberal posters all talk and get along peacefully but I'm not sure it always works out in practice.
| 1108 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:39:21pm |
re: #1097 iceweasel
The issue is larger than a spat between two individuals. It creates a climate that discourages new posters, and may even keep people from registering.
And that is extremely bad for the blog, and CJ's bottom line.
Nonsense. Albusteve doesn't drive anyone away. What has created a discouraging climate is all the hostility, heckling and down-dinging and personal attacks. This directly impacted the financial model by driving away most of the traffic.
| 1109 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:40:15pm |
re: #1108 Bagua
Reading someone else's personal bickerings is boring, if you care about what's going on in the rest of the world.
| 1110 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:40:28pm |
re: #1098 Floral Giraffe
Do you really want to know?
Dude! You're looking for real hair from our bog host.
I don't know him & I'll wager you don't either.
Does he donate his hair?
I don't know.
Would you (Seriously) want the hair of someone you knew?
I don't know.IMHO, it's ICKY.
Can we just agree to disagree?
I was never seriously asking for Charles hair, I was doing it sarcastically.
A while back there was a post here which linked to a you tube video (I can find it again fairly easily since it was right after a Jon Stewart post) which was mocking Charles for his LFG calenders and one of the 'call now in the next half an hour and you get a free...." was a clip on pony tail.
I co-opted that joke to make what I believe to be the silliest item imaginable that might be reward to a die hard lizard for such high karma like the left wheel off FDR's chair, or a half smoked Cigarett that Barack Obama decided not to finish......
| 1111 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:40:47pm |
re: #1105 palomino
Now of course this little insult is OK because it's all part of Steve's little act.
So totally logical, why don't you get it?
why are you stalking me?...what's with this obsession?...it's not good for anybody...cool it
| 1112 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:40:57pm |
re: #1104 jaunte
Employment in Venezuela:
The 'formal sector' is what we call jobs here. the 'informal sector' includes panhandling, or any other untaxed economic activity.
[Link: www.venezuelanalysis.com...]
The point being it's a socialized economy so nobody really goes without so there aren't the immigration problems there are with other countries.
| 1113 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:41:03pm |
re: #1108 Bagua
Nonsense. Albusteve doesn't drive anyone away. What has created a discouraging climate is all the hostility, heckling and down-dinging and personal attacks. This directly impacted the financial model by driving away most of the traffic.
I already made the point that I'm not talking about albusteve, Bagua.
And you are the last fucking person on earth to pretend to play for the motherfucking civility police. I haven't forgotten that you called Ludwig a capo.
Don't address me again.
| 1114 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:41:10pm |
re: #1109 jaunte
Can somebody help me get this saddle off this damn dead horse?
| 1115 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:41:20pm |
re: #1105 palomino
Now of course this little insult is OK because it's all part of Steve's little act.
So totally logical, why don't you get it?
Do you have something of substance to say, or are you just going to attack posters here?
I'd be happy to hear what you think about something, OTHER than the posters here.
| 1116 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:41:40pm |
re: #1103 Conservative Moonbat
They have large socialized unions, yes. That's sorta the point.
Was just trying to make a joke based on "They might have jobs standing around all day doing nothing"
| 1117 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:42:19pm |
re: #1109 jaunte
Reading someone else's personal bickerings is boring, if you care about what's going on in the rest of the world.
True, it would not surprise me is that was the majority view.
| 1118 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:42:22pm |
re: #1112 Conservative Moonbat
The problem with Venezuela is that Chavez has made legal possession arbitrary, so the economy is in a tailspin.
| 1119 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:42:46pm |
re: #1106 albusteve
every single post on this subject has been in reply...I'm not baiting anybody, that's a perverse wet dream you guys have...scroll, if you don't like something
the textbook definition of passive-aggressiveness: someone replies to one of your outrageous contentions, you respond and ratchet it up to 11, and then act shocked that there's any discord. This act is a crock o' shit.
| 1120 |
Political Atheist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:43:48pm |
Good night All. I can be found
In Bed
| 1121 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:44:34pm |
re: #1113 iceweasel
I already made the point that I'm not talking about albusteve, Bagua.
And you are the last fucking person on earth to pretend to play for the motherfucking civility police. I haven't forgotten that you called Ludwig a capo.Don't address me again.
There you go bringing hostility and personal attacks front and center. And I shall address whomever I wish on this forum. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
| 1122 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:44:45pm |
| 1125 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:45:54pm |
re: #1121 Bagua
There you go bringing hostility and personal attacks front and center. And I shall address whomever I wish on this forum. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Sorry, Bagsy. I know you love to roll around in the dirt, but I won't be gratifying your wishes.
Fuck off.
| 1126 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:46:22pm |
re: #1115 Floral Giraffe
I've only been here a couple of months, but I rarely get involved in this kind of mudslinging. In fact, tonight is a first for me.
Most of my posts are substantive and non-controversial. But when our president gets called a "fucking idiot" and I'm told that I deserve hatred for voting for Obama, yeah I get angry.
| 1127 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:46:50pm |
What meaning do you suppose -1 dings mean when over half of them come from the same two dingbats?
The short answer is that they reflect more on the dingbats then on their targets.
| 1128 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:47:55pm |
re: #1127 Bagua
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 1129 |
albusteve Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:49:24pm |
re: #1119 palomino
the textbook definition of passive-aggressiveness: someone replies to one of your outrageous contentions, you respond and ratchet it up to 11, and then act shocked that there's any discord. This act is a crock o' shit.
nothing here shocks me...as for me me it's all good natured no matter what...I have been smacked by better than you...it's a process...me and Ice are polar opposites but after awhile we ignore each other and still have a few laughs here and there...it's the nature of the people that post...there is a way for you to be happy, but you invariably have to give in...it's not intellect and it's not about being right...it's about offering to reach out...go for it
| 1130 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:49:59pm |
re: #1125 iceweasel
Sorry, Bagsy. I know you love to roll around in the dirt, but I won't be gratifying your wishes.
Fuck off.
Amusing coming from you Iceweasel, as history shows when there is any dirt to be rolled around in it generally involves you.
But then you can only make criticism, you cannot accept any yourself.
And no, I care nothing about your attacks using out of context comments, it is disgusting the way you attack and vilify people.
| 1131 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:50:15pm |
re: #1121 Bagua
Bagua, will you please just apologize for that capo comment? It really was an insult, and its something you need to move past, which you cannot do until you apologize for it.
| 1132 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:50:50pm |
Kitty Wells -- It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels
| 1133 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:50:54pm |
re: #1111 albusteve
why are you stalking me?...what's with this obsession?...it's not good for anybody...cool it
stalking because sometimes your outrageousness stands out so much it deserves a response.
the obsession is only with the over the top crap you peddle as serious discourse.
| 1141 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:56:16pm |
Jerry Jeff Walker -- Up Against the Wall Redneck Mother
| 1143 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:57:13pm |
re: #1140 jamesfirecat
Hasn't that long been Cato's honor?
I don't think Cato downdings very much at all.
| 1147 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:59:28pm |
re: #1142 Bagua
More of your viscous, stalking behaviour Iceweasel, you are pathetic. I do find you amusing.
Congratulations on stirring up shit once again Bagua.
| 1148 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 9:59:34pm |
re: #1142 Bagua
Bagua, you are severely over the line right now. I advise you in the strongest possible terms to log off for the night. Because you are seriously asking for it if you stay.
| 1149 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:00:20pm |
re: #1126 palomino
For me, I ignore it, for the most part. But, I can be like Walter, in a way...
Mr. Crankypants. We're all human, and playing with priveleges, on Charle's blog. As long as Charles and his opinions are respected. Well, it's not my blog.
| 1151 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:01:37pm |
re: #1143 Bagua
I don't think Cato downdings very much at all.
You and I must have different definitions of "most vicious single poster on this site." I think it has more to do with the content of a person's posts than their "dinging" behavior....
| 1152 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:01:59pm |
Steve Earle -- The Mountain
| 1153 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:03:25pm |
So...the closest convenience store to Cato's demesne is this Hamas place two blocks up. Actually, that's not true. There's a 7-Eleven slightly closer, but I like shoppin' local.
Anyway, anytime I walk up there with Haku the service dog, the chorus starts again. (You'd think there might occasionally be someone there who was there before, but you'd be wrong. Every unibrowed cousin gets to work there once a year it seems.)
Chorus: Sirrr! Sirrr! No dogs! No dogs allowed. [four different people]
Me: He's a medical service dog.
Chorus: Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! Sirrr! NO DOGZ!
Me: I come here every other night.
Chorus: NO DOGZ! NO DOGZ! NO DOGZ! NO DOGZ! NO DOGZ!
Me: [because I'm particularly tired and cranky] Call the police.
So while I calmly go about finding my almonds, my Nablus cheese, my snickers bar and my halvah (which you can't get at the 7-Eleven), Unibrow Number Three excitedly calls 911.
I'll give you 9/11, tough guy.
Like the Baltimore police, at 0046 hours, a week after a big snow that still hasn't been cleared, have nothing to do but eject Haku from the premises.
So, they're yelling at me, I'm collecting my stuff, and I drop the big one: I met the owner two weeks ago and told him exactly what Haku does and how and - he comes around the counter and gives me a hug.
Chorus: What? You know the boss? You mean the big guy?
[silence]
Me: Yep. I do. Call him.
Chorus: Can't call. He's sleeping.
Me: Well then I'll see you all tomorrow.
Grrrrr.
| 1155 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:04:23pm |
re: #1145 iceweasel
It's 'stalking' to reply to your repeated provocations and insults by relinking a comment telling you to fuck off? That's pretty interesting.
Just quit it.
BTW, it's 'vicious', you illiterate fool.
Well, slime is viscous. Though, not sure the viscosity of insults is typically commented on, I think it would be fun to next time call an insult viscous instead of slimy :)
| 1157 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:06:42pm |
re: #1154 Bagua
Gus, you may not have noticed Iceweasel first starting with the down dings? I am responding to her intinitating hostility in an otherwise friendly thread and bringing up attacks and arguments from old threads.
But you are quite right that I am the other side at the moment and not backing down from Iceweasel's ongoing attacks. So I'll say no more.
Have you noticed that downdings don't mean jack shit?
| 1159 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:07:51pm |
re: #1158 SpaceJesus
gonna read the hell outta that book
Last time I checked, reading doesn't actually wear down books any.
Now, having my children handle them--that will destroy a book in short order. We keep trying to convince them that bookmarks are meant to be flat.
| 1161 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:08:18pm |
re: #1149 Floral Giraffe
For me, I ignore it, for the most part. But, I can be like Walter, in a way...
Mr. Crankypants. We're all human, and playing with priveleges, on Charle's blog. As long as Charles and his opinions are respected. Well, it's not my blog.
Agreed. I should have ignored what I see as a basic disingenuousness and lack of accountability in the form steve presents his comments. I lost my cool.
Looking around here, though, it seems that happens quite a bit. Still far less than many other blogs and at least there's some constructive dialogue here.
| 1162 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:08:23pm |
re: #1153 Cato the Elder
Thanks for posting about...something.
| 1164 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:10:46pm |
re: #1157 Conservative Moonbat
Have you noticed that downdings don't mean jack shit?
Yes, that is my point exactly. They are essentially meaningless as 90% of them issue from the same 4 or so posters out of a community of hundreds.
| 1165 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:10:59pm |
re: #1154 Bagua
Gus, you may not have noticed Iceweasel first starting with the down dings? I am responding to her intinitating hostility in an otherwise friendly thread and bringing up attacks and arguments from old threads.
But you are quite right that I am the other side at the moment and not backing down from Iceweasel's ongoing attacks. So I'll say no more.
So what. It was a couple of down dings and it was regarding an already hostile situation. You mean to tell me you've never down dinged her before?
What's with this "other side" thing? Are you saying this is a left-wing vs. right-wing thing? To me it looks like it comes from both sides from time to time and it turns into this passive-aggressive ego-ballet that goes nowhere.
This keeps flaring up and I know the next thing will be fore someone to say "pile on" which is more passive-aggressive talk. You know, I keep reading some people saying "just scroll by" and I think it's about time that both "sides" started practicing more of that.
| 1166 |
goddamnedfrank Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:11:09pm |
re: #1135 Bagua
I apologised twice immediately after and retracted and explained it. Alternatively, I never received any apology from anyone else.
Since you're going to persist with this, I'll just come out and state that I think part of the problem is that after the "false jew" accusation, and weak apology, that the kapo remark was seen as an abject failure to just knock it the hell off.
| 1167 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:11:16pm |
re: #1151 jamesfirecat
You and I must have different definitions of "most vicious single poster on this site." I think it has more to do with the content of a person's posts than their "dinging" behavior...
Someone is butthurt over being downdinged for stirring up shit. Tough.
| 1169 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:14:13pm |
re: #1163 Jadespring
Korean Jindo. Purebred, as near as I know, which is not so near, because I got him off the street as a stray.
But Koreans come up to me and offer me money until they find out he's fixed.
| 1170 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:14:37pm |
re: #1163 Jadespring
Cato, what kind of dog is Haku?
Service dog watching
His owner is buying snacks
Clerks are freaking out
| 1171 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:14:37pm |
re: #1165 Gus 802
So what. It was a couple of down dings and it was regarding an already hostile situation. You mean to tell me you've never down dinged her before?
What's with this "other side" thing? Are you saying this is a left-wing vs. right-wing thing? To me it looks like it comes from both sides from time to time and it turns into this passive-aggressive ego-ballet that goes nowhere.
This keeps flaring up and I know the next thing will be fore someone to say "pile on" which is more passive-aggressive talk. You know, I keep reading some people saying "just scroll by" and I think it's about time that both "sides" started practicing more of that.
Heh. Seeing a blowup between ideological opposites on a thread about the behaviour of wingnuts is a bit ironic, no?
| 1172 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:15:24pm |
re: #1170 EmmmieG
Service dog watching
His owner is buying snacks
Clerks are freaking out
Was thinking something along the same line. Thanx for the chuckle.
| 1173 |
Obdicut Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:15:32pm |
re: #1169 Cato the Elder
I figured you for an Akita man, but a Jindo is a fine, fine breed. I'm sure you treat him in the best possible way, too. Dogs need to know they're helpful.
| 1174 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:16:02pm |
re: #1165 Gus 802
Upding for "ego-ballet".
Ah me! Who shall be the first swan to die of a broken karma?
| 1175 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:16:11pm |
For a change of pace, a local hardcore band, The Tony Danza Tapdance Extravaganza
| 1176 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:16:23pm |
re: #1171 BryanS
Heh. Seeing a blowup between ideological opposites on a thread about the behaviour of wingnuts is a bit ironic, no?
I suppose so. But it wasn't about wingnuts. Just the usual squabble between an "old timer" and the new blood.
| 1177 |
Jadespring Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:17:17pm |
re: #1169 Cato the Elder
Korean Jindo. Purebred, as near as I know, which is not so near, because I got him off the street as a stray.
But Koreans come up to me and offer me money until they find out he's fixed.
Those are cool and beautiful dogs. :D
| 1178 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:18:03pm |
re: #1171 BryanS
Heh. Seeing a blowup between ideological opposites on a thread about the behaviour of wingnuts is a bit ironic, no?
John Avlon is pretty cool.
Praying for Obama's Death
At a time when some people confuse losing an election with living under tyranny, it’s perhaps no surprise that a day set aside for marking past presidents’ birth has become, for some, a day for praying for the current president’s death.
Praying for President Obama’s death has become a sick cottage industry for some evangelicals on the lunatic fringe. Bumper stickers, T-shirts, and teddy bears are sold with the wholesome-sounding slogan “Pray for Obama” but tagged with the more troublesome “Psalm 109:8”—which reads “May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership” followed by “May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.”
More at the link. He interviews Wiley Drake.
| 1179 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:18:18pm |
re: #1173 Obdicut
I figured you for an Akita man, but a Jindo is a fine, fine breed. I'm sure you treat him in the best possible way, too. Dogs need to know they're helpful.
My connection with Haku is stronger than a Na'vi with his dragon.
Seriously. We don't need no stinkin' fiber-bond.
| 1182 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:19:43pm |
re: #1178 iceweasel
More at the link. He interviews Wiley Drake.
May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow
Yikes!
| 1183 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:20:00pm |
Maybe this is more appropriate:
Pantera -- Fucking Hostile (Live, Donington, England 1994)
| 1184 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:20:18pm |
OK. Chill. Everybody.
Did you hear the one about the Jindo and the Baltimore rat?
| 1185 |
Jadespring Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:21:07pm |
re: #1184 Cato the Elder
OK. Chill. Everybody.
Did you hear the one about the Jindo and the Baltimore rat?
No. Do tell.
| 1186 |
wee fury Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:21:17pm |
Meade Lux Lewis - Boogie Woogie
| 1187 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:22:04pm |
re: #1182 BryanS
Yikes!
Yeah, and Wiley Drake seems almost kind compared to this other wingnut:
But Drake is subtle and even civil compared to the deranged hatemonger who preaches at the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona: Steven L. Anderson.
“I hate Barack Obama. You say, well, you just mean you don’t like what he stands for. No, I hate the person. Oh, you mean you just don’t like his policies. No, I hate him … I am not going to pray for his good. I am going to pray that he dies and goes to Hell.”
Here endeth the lesson on a Sunday last summer when Anderson offered a straight to the point sermon titled “Why I Hate Obama.” He even gave parishioners a view into his own private Obama prayer: “Break his teeth, oh God, in his mouth, as a snail which melteth, let him pass away, like an untimely birth of a woman—that he thinks—he calls it a woman’s right to choose, you know, he thinks it’s so wonderful, he ought to be aborted. It ought to be, ‘Abort Obama,’ that ought to be the motto.”Anderson’s gospel of hate is careful to hit the culture war trifecta: God, Gays, and Guns. Gays, he has said, should be executed—(“The same God who instituted the death penalty for murders is the same god who instituted the death penalty for rapists and for homosexuals, sodomites, and queers!”). And as for guns, well, they’ve been as common as Bibles in his church some Sundays. In fact, Chris Broughton, the man who brought an AR15 assault rifle as a protest outside an August ’09 Obama event in Arizona, attended the “Why I Hate Obama” sermon just the Sunday before. Broughton has called it “the best church in the world.”
When Anderson was interviewed by the local Phoenix Fox affiliate about his imprecatory prayers, he denied he was calling for violence. “If you want to know how I’d like to see Obama die, I’d like him to die of natural causes,” said Anderson. “I don’t want him to be a martyr, we don’t need another holiday. I’d like to see him die, like Ted Kennedy, of brain cancer.”
| 1188 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:23:14pm |
re: #1184 Cato the Elder
"Cato, I am canceling the attack orders for tonight. You will not attack Cato!"
| 1192 |
BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:25:27pm |
re: #1189 Gus 802
That's some pretty sick stuff.
I'd forgotten this Anderson guy was the pastor at the church that Broughton attended.
| 1193 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:25:38pm |
re: #1168 Bagua
Calling a Jew a capo will always meet an extremely hostile response, no matter the context. Ludwig was wrong to go after you the way he did, but you went way over the line with that remark. Howeverm in the interestsa of peace, I propose the following:
1. You and iceweasel exchange apologies. Yours comes first and is a retraction of all insults sent at her, and well as the 'capo' remark. She for her part will accept that apology and apologize for those things she's said to you.
2. You both agree to afterward leave each other alone for a 3 week cool off period.
Do these terms seem doable?
| 1194 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:26:40pm |
re: #1191 iceweasel
Well that's more civil, thanks.
And actually, I made a bunch of other comments prior to the initiation of hostilities.
| 1195 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:26:56pm |
re: #1184 Cato the Elder
OK. Chill. Everybody.
Did you hear the one about the Jindo and the Baltimore rat?
Let me guess: The rat got the worst of it.
| 1196 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:27:33pm |
re: #1192 iceweasel
I'd forgotten this Anderson guy was the pastor at the church that Broughton attended.
Right, that was the AR-15 shy Paulian weirdo. Anderson is the crazy Arizona "pastor" that has it out for the Border Patrol and is also an anti-vaxer.
| 1197 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:27:34pm |
re: #1187 iceweasel
(Yikes)^2
I would normally just be thankful that this guy's exhortations are to a non-existent deity--atheist that I am--but that kind of sentiment sounds an awful lot like a call to violence.
| 1198 |
Locker Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:28:57pm |
re: #1193 Dark_Falcon
Calling a Jew a capo will always meet an extremely hostile response, no matter the context. Ludwig was wrong to go after you the way he did, but you went way over the line with that remark. Howeverm in the interestsa of peace, I propose the following:
1. You and iceweasel exchange apologies. Yours comes first and is a retraction of all insults sent at her, and well as the 'capo' remark. She for her part will accept that apology and apologize for those things she's said to you.
2. You both agree to afterward leave each other alone for a 3 week cool off period.
Do these terms seem doable?
Respect for trying to make peace but I have never, yet, seen a situation that Iceweasel couldn't handle herself.
| 1199 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:29:11pm |
re: #112 Guanxi88
now THAT I'd agree with you on. No way we're ready for an open atheist/agnostic, undecided.
Hell, it amazes me we even had ONE Catholic pres, truth be told.
Not sure it could happen today, honestly. Then again, I didn't think we could elect a black president, and we went ahead and did that--American voters are stubborn and hard-to-categorize folks.
| 1201 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:30:18pm |
re: #120 sandbox
Re Sarah Palin, IMO the left and MSM are overrating her prospects in Presidential politics. If she does decide to run for Pres., I can't see her winning any significant primaries. Her lack of depth on the issues will lead many, who like her personally, to vote for someone else in the primaries.
From your lips to God's ear.
| 1202 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:30:44pm |
Uhh, what's meant by "capo"? I mean, maybe if I'm talking about guitar playing with a Jew, I should be aware of why that's insulting.
| 1203 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:32:43pm |
re: #998 keloyd
"Wingnut" just means "radical" according to Wiki and Mirriam-Webster. We seem to associate it with the right wing. I guess the rightward meaning is newer(?)
I believe that 'wingnut' originally referred to both right and left, but in recent colloquial usage has begun to refer to the right-wing variety exclusively, while the left-wing variety has begun to be referred to by the equally descriptive 'moonbat'.
| 1204 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:32:52pm |
re: #1195 Dark_Falcon
Let me guess: The rat got the worst of it.
Yeah, of course. But that's not the joke.
The joke is that after offing so many Baltimore rats that he should have got a medal from the mayor, Haku went with me to Massachusetts and met a porcupine. Which he thought was just an extra-large Baltimore rat with pointy fur.
That joke cost me 538 bucks in vet bills.
Get it, people? We could be talking about real injuries, here.
Now chill, everyone.
| 1205 |
Jadespring Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:33:36pm |
re: #1202 BryanS
Uhh, what's meant by "capo"? I mean, maybe if I'm talking about guitar playing with a Jew, I should be aware of why that's insulting.
google it 'define: capo'
I'm sure you'll be able to pick up which definition is the issue here.
| 1206 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:33:42pm |
re: #1196 Gus 802
Right, that was the AR-15 shy Paulian weirdo. Anderson is the crazy Arizona "pastor" that has it out for the Border Patrol and is also an anti-vaxer.
He wasn't exactly shy about his rifle and it was a seriously problematic (though legal) statement the man was making by having it there.
Not that there was anything wrong with the rifle itself, because it was an excellent specimen, but it was the intent behind its being there that rankles.
| 1207 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:33:49pm |
re: #1001 iceweasel
Yeah, that was before I registered here. I would have liked seeing that!
Actually I swore off reading the LGF comment threads from August 2008 til about Jan 2009. It wasn't any fun at all to see the level of sheer delusion (and rage) going on. Especially about the Grifter.
I got worried. At some point, people began realizing that Obama was really going to win, and while many people were still in denial, others got increasingly agitated.
| 1209 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:35:12pm |
re: #1207 SanFranciscoZionist
I got worried. At some point, people began realizing that Obama was really going to win, and while many people were still in denial, others got increasingly agitated.
And me? To quote John Lennon, "I just larf."
| 1210 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:37:02pm |
re: #1206 Dark_Falcon
He wasn't exactly shy about his rifle and it was a seriously problematic (though legal) statement the man was making by having it there.
Not that there was anything wrong with the rifle itself, because it was an excellent specimen, but it was the intent behind its being there that rankles.
Yeah, never bring a gun to a political protest unless it involves a military coup in a Banana Country. Especially when a president is visiting. I don't know what the worry is about the 2nd Amendment since it has survived the test of time and is even surviving the worst fears of the current administration. You just don't bring a gun to church, or other places. There's a time and place for things.
| 1211 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:37:24pm |
re: #1019 windsagio
dude, this place is nothing. If you think lgf is 'heat', you need to wander around the internet some.
This place is full of cute little puppies with fuzzy tummies.
Reminds me of when I was doing my teaching credential, and we had a class discussion that touched on racism and sexism in the classroom.
Afterward, the professor thanked me for staying so calm during such a 'heated and emotional' classroom exchange. I told her the truth--after my undergrad years, that was nothing. No one had cried, no one had revealed their slave-holding ancestors and begged for forgiveness, no one had needed to be held by classmates while they wept, no one had accused anyone else of being a racist, no one had called for revolution. It was terribly calm, really.
She seemed startled.
| 1212 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:37:32pm |
There are 41 registered users here right now.
Bagua
BigPapa
blueherron
blueraven
BryanS
Cato the Elder
cenotaphium
Cheechako
Claire
Conservative Moonbat
Dark_Falcon
eclectic infidel
EmmmieG
fire at night
freetoken
goddamnedfrank
Gus 802
HoosierHoops
iceweasel
Jadespring
jamesfirecat
Killgore Trout
Kreniigh
Locker
MisterCookie
Mr Pancakes
Obdicut
palomino
Red Pencil
reine.de.tout
ryannon
SanFranciscoZionist
shai_au
simoom
SpaceJesus
talon_262
teleskiguy
UncleSam
Walter L. Newton
wee fury
WindHorse
Anyone know a good Toyota joke?
| 1213 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:38:03pm |
re: #1205 Jadespring
google it 'define: capo'
I'm sure you'll be able to pick up which definition is the issue here.
Ahh, never used the "define" keyword on google searches before. I googled the word, but only found the usage that I already knew. I assume it's this one:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 1215 |
teleskiguy Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:40:26pm |
Hmm. Just checkin' in with LGF, and Charles is talkin' 'bout a book called Wingnuts. Twelve-Hundred comments later, teleskiguy laughs. I'm chimin' in for the first time on this thread, as comment 1214. I just love how the wingnuts of this country just go apeshit whenever LGF takes the middle ground and rationalizes things, that goes for left and right. Har Har Har!
| 1216 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:40:29pm |
| 1217 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:43:25pm |
re: #1216 Gus 802
A cone with a radius at the tip.
Is that you, Mr. Karfgin, my old geometry teacher?
Do they let you drink Vitalis in heaven?
| 1218 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:44:02pm |
re: #1216 Gus 802
A cone with a radius at the tip.
Though if it is a cone, it has a point, no? I would say a sphere would work. As would a toroid. A mobius strip would work.
| 1219 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:45:08pm |
re: #1212 Cato the Elder
There are 41 registered users here right now.
Bagua
BigPapa
blueherron
blueraven
BryanS
Cato the Elder
cenotaphium
Cheechako
Claire
Conservative Moonbat
Dark_Falcon
eclectic infidel
EmmmieG
fire at night
freetoken
goddamnedfrank
Gus 802
HoosierHoops
iceweasel
Jadespring
jamesfirecat
Killgore Trout
Kreniigh
Locker
MisterCookie
Mr Pancakes
Obdicut
palomino
Red Pencil
reine.de.tout
ryannon
SanFranciscoZionist
shai_au
simoom
SpaceJesus
talon_262
teleskiguy
UncleSam
Walter L. Newton
wee fury
WindHorseAnyone know a good Toyota joke?
GM work to Toyota worker: "Well at least I know how to install a steering column!"
Toyota Worker: "I know not to demand more than my employer can afford. That why I at least still have a job!"
| 1220 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:45:09pm |
re: #1217 Cato the Elder
Is that you, Mr. Karfgin, my old geometry teacher?
Do they let you drink Vitalis in heaven?
He drank Vitalis? Blech. Just finishing up a 1/2 pint of Jim Beam.
| 1221 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:46:15pm |
| 1222 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:46:21pm |
re: #1218 BryanS
Though if it is a cone, it has a point, no? I would say a sphere would work. As would a toroid. A mobius strip would work.
True. But I thought pointless would be an expectation of a point but upon further inspection finding no point. Like a broken needle.
| 1223 |
Jadespring Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:46:54pm |
re: #1212 Cato the Elder
Toyota extended their recall to include many Priuses, claiming that the brakes may be defective.
This is of great concern to many Prius owners: If the brakes don't work, the battery won't recharge, and then they might... WASTE GAS!
| 1224 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:47:20pm |
re: #1062 Bagua
Blanket statements are generally less personal by definition
I have a strong feeling that if someone had referred to the 'idiots' who voted for, say Scott Brown, that would have produced not only ill will, but a great deal of resentment at the environment in which such a thing could be said.
| 1225 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:47:41pm |
re: #1063 Rightwingconspirator
Sometimes I think the Registered Democrats Most Likely to Vote are more conservative than Kos.
I think you may be right.
| 1226 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:48:01pm |
re: #1222 Gus 802
True. But I thought pointless would be an expectation of a point but upon further inspection finding no point. Like a broken needle.
Was just thinking the mobius strip is actually the best one. It's a one dimensional topology, that goes on forever without end. Kinda like some spats between wingnuts :)
| 1227 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:49:07pm |
re: #1223 Jadespring
Toyota extended their recall to include many Priuses, claiming that the brakes may be defective.
This is of great concern to many Prius owners: If the brakes don't work, the battery won't recharge, and then they might... WASTE GAS!
[snicker]
| 1228 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:49:42pm |
re: #1224 SanFranciscoZionist
I have a strong feeling that if someone had referred to the 'idiots' who voted for, say Scott Brown, that would have produced not only ill will, but a great deal of resentment at the environment in which such a thing could be said.
So true. Or the "idiots that voted for ____ ." I saw that before and bit my tongue.
| 1229 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:50:00pm |
re: #1080 windsagio
ok last thing, can people seriously look at the interactions between palomino and steve and honestly say that steve isn't baiting pal or egging on the fight?
The problem isn't that things like that happen (its a blog afterall), its that people pretend its not happening, and even go on to blame the victim...
This is a somewhat partisan environment. We all manage anyway.
| 1230 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:51:18pm |
re: #1224 SanFranciscoZionist
I have a strong feeling that if someone had referred to the 'idiots' who voted for, say Scott Brown, that would have produced not only ill will, but a great deal of resentment at the environment in which such a thing could be said.
Yes I agree. It was not a neutral statement by any means. My point was the contrast between a general sort of dig and one immediately personlised.
| 1232 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:52:06pm |
re: #1226 BryanS
Was just thinking the mobius strip is actually the best one. It's a one dimensional topology, that goes on forever without end. Kinda like some spats between wingnuts :)
It's like the Circle Game.
| 1233 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:52:26pm |
re: #1220 Gus 802
He drank Vitalis? Blech. Just finishing up a 1/2 pint of Jim Beam.
In the Navy. During WWII. When all the bootleg booze was gone.
Ah, the stories I heard from my teachers in the salad days!
| 1234 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:53:41pm |
re: #1143 Bagua
I don't think Cato downdings very much at all.
No, he just says what he wishes, and lets the good times roll.
| 1235 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:53:44pm |
re: #1063 Rightwingconspirator
Sometimes I think the Registered Democrats Most Likely to Vote are more conservative than Kos.
Sometimes? :D I have accepted that as fact for years. My father votes Democrat reliably and would roll his eyes at most of the stuff on Kos. Same with many of my friends who consider themselves liberal and bitch about Kos, or bitch about how Olbermann drives them nuts. They just want decent policy that makes sense to them.
Blogs and blog commenters often have this sort of internet-centric lens they view politics through, where everyone is sort of hyper-aware-hyper-partisan and it's just not the way normal people who aren't super-steeped in political minutae think.
| 1236 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:55:12pm |
re: #1223 Jadespring
Toyota extended their recall to include many Priuses, claiming that the brakes may be defective.
This is of great concern to many Prius owners: If the brakes don't work, the battery won't recharge, and then they might... WASTE GAS!
In Seattle, every second car I saw was a Prius, and they all pompously refused to get out of my way when I wanted to exceed the speed limit by more than they were exceeding it.
In Michigan, I didn't see a single one, and all the lesser cars got respectfully out of the way of my Continental!
| 1237 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:55:52pm |
re: #1232 Gus 802
It's like the Circle Game.
This?
[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]
Never played. Seems like a bad game to play, and pointless too !
| 1238 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:56:40pm |
re: #1065 windsagio
fair enough, I just disagree with you :p
My impression is that the South Veitnamese gov't and military was shattered, and loss was going to eventually happen. At most, Watergate accelerated it.
The Cry of Inevitability.
| 1239 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:56:46pm |
re: #1237 BryanS
This?
[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]
Never played. Seems like a bad game to play, and pointless too !
Was thinking of the Joni Mitchell song.
| 1240 |
palomino Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:57:29pm |
re: #1229 SanFranciscoZionist
This is a somewhat partisan environment. We all manage anyway.
It's a strange kind of partisanship here though. Dems don't really seem to want to admit it. And Republicans are just really embarrassed right now.
| 1241 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:58:09pm |
Who, pray, is the "victim" on a goddam blog?
Trolls and socks excepted, everyone else must look to his own cannon.
| 1242 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:58:34pm |
re: #1236 Cato the Elder
In Seattle, every second car I saw was a Prius, and they all pompously refused to get out of my way when I wanted to exceed the speed limit by more than they were exceeding it.
In Michigan, I didn't see a single one, and all the lesser cars got respectfully out of the way of my Continental!
Sounds a lot like the South Park "smug" episode. The characters all got full of themselves because they drove hybrids, couldn't get enough of the smell of their own farts, etc.
| 1243 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:58:53pm |
re: #1241 Cato the Elder
Who, pray, is the "victim" on a goddam blog?
Trolls and socks excepted, everyone else must look to his own cannon.
That's hard to do. It takes a team to crew a cannon.
| 1244 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:00:13pm |
re: #1236 Cato the Elder
In Seattle, every second car I saw was a Prius, and they all pompously refused to get out of my way when I wanted to exceed the speed limit by more than they were exceeding it.
In Michigan, I didn't see a single one, and all the lesser cars got respectfully out of the way of my Continental!
hah, really? I grew up in Seattle, was just there, and when I was on capitol Hill there were way more douchebags in BMW M3s and Mercedes that Priuses. But then I saw it through the lens of the pissed off former resident who saw the gentrification lay waste to all the character of the area.
Portland, though, we're as liberal as it gets, and it sure ain't Prius country. because they're not as functional. Portland is Volvo country, Portland is Subaru Outbuck country. Give me my AWD Outback or my V70 with 200K miles on it with the giant Thule rack on the roof, the big bike rack on the back, the Blizzaks on the rims, and the rims curb-rashed to shit because nobody knows how to parallel park here. :D
| 1245 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:00:32pm |
re: #1238 WindUpBird
The Cry of Inevitability.
Without the withholding of US air support the NVA invasion with conventional forces would have been unlikely to succeed. The VC played no significant role in that invasion. It was akin to the US pulling out of Iraq next year and then a couple of years later not lending air support to fend off an Iranian invasion.
| 1246 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:01:09pm |
re: #1242 BryanS
Sounds a lot like the South Park "smug" episode. The characters all got full of themselves because they drove hybrids, couldn't get enough of the smell of their own farts, etc.
I love that episode. The satire of San Francisco is excellent and the "smug storm" ends with the City by the Bay having "completely disappeared up its own asshole". Great stuff.
| 1247 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:01:35pm |
re: #1241 Cato the Elder
Who, pray, is the "victim" on a goddam blog?
Trolls and socks excepted, everyone else must look to his own cannon.
True. There is no one innocent here.
| 1248 |
BryanS Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:01:50pm |
re: #1239 Gus 802
Was thinking of the Joni Mitchell song.
Before my time.Tthough I have to say listening to it on youtube, it has this bland painfully annoying nothingness to it. Blech!
| 1249 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:02:32pm |
re: #1243 Dark_Falcon
That's hard to do. It takes a team to crew a cannon.
He meant cannon in the biblical sense.
| 1250 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:05:15pm |
re: #1240 palomino
It's a strange kind of partisanship here though. Dems don't really seem to want to admit it. And Republicans are just really embarrassed right now.
Interesting times for politics!
| 1251 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:05:21pm |
re: #1245 Bagua
Without the withholding of US air support the NVA invasion with conventional forces would have been unlikely to succeed. The VC played no significant role in that invasion. It was akin to the US pulling out of Iraq next year and then a couple of years later not lending air support to fend off an Iranian invasion.
Quite concur. The NVA had a lot of T-55s in 72 and 75, but like Syria and Iraq their armor was poorly handled. In 1972, South Vietnamese M48s were able to prevail against their communist counterparts, even when heavily outnumbered.
A interesting tie-in to your analogy is that in the 1980's Vietnam sold M48 parts acquired in the fall of the South to Iran, as well as parts for Iran's F-4 Phantoms.
| 1252 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:09:23pm |
re: #1245 Bagua
Without the withholding of US air support the NVA invasion with conventional forces would have been unlikely to succeed. The VC played no significant role in that invasion. It was akin to the US pulling out of Iraq next year and then a couple of years later not lending air support to fend off an Iranian invasion.
haha not interested in arguing Vietnam ;-) All my my opinions all second hand, they come from my dad, who was an officer in Vietnam. He went into Vietnam a strict conservative republican, he left a centrist, and by the time I was a teenager, he was a Democrat.
| 1253 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:09:50pm |
re: #1240 palomino
It's a strange kind of partisanship here though. Dems don't really seem to want to admit it. And Republicans are just really embarrassed right now.
We don't break down along neat party lines, either, some people are party people, some are not.
| 1254 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:09:56pm |
re: #1251 Dark_Falcon
No question the next domino was Iran as the Islamists studied Vietnam and the US gelding by the media.
| 1255 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:14:16pm |
re: #1252 WindUpBird
haha not interested in arguing Vietnam ;-) All my my opinions all second hand, they come from my dad, who was an officer in Vietnam. He went into Vietnam a strict conservative republican, he left a centrist, and by the time I was a teenager, he was a Democrat.
Arguing? We never do that.
But what we are discussing, history, goes beyond the partisan divide of Republican and Democrat. Military history on non-political grounds, and even political history requires some distance from partisan thought to be fully understood.
| 1256 |
Vambo Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:14:35pm |
re: #824 Rightwingconspirator
What got you banned at Politico?
I wasn't banned, I just left. The forum sucked.
| 1257 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:15:00pm |
re: #1255 Bagua
Arguing? We never do that.
But what we are discussing, history, goes beyond the partisan divide of Republican and Democrat. Military history on non-political grounds, and even political history requires some distance from partisan thought to be fully understood.
Quite Concur.
| 1258 |
Cato the Elder Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:16:21pm |
Kramer [wandering uninvited into Jerry's apartment]: You got any meat?
G'nite.
| 1259 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:18:04pm |
re: #1258 Cato the Elder
G'nite Cato, good to see you online.
| 1260 |
Gus Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:24:52pm |
re: #1251 Dark_Falcon
Quite concur. The NVA had a lot of T-55s in 72 and 75, but like Syria and Iraq their armor was poorly handled. In 1972, South Vietnamese M48s were able to prevail against their communist counterparts, even when heavily outnumbered.
A interesting tie-in to your analogy is that in the 1980's Vietnam sold M48 parts acquired in the fall of the South to Iran, as well as parts for Iran's F-4 Phantoms.
The South Vietnamese forces never had their heart in the fight except for the officers. Two factors playing into this was that it was essentially a civil war that saw a foreign country involved, the USA, which played a self interested role in the Cold War. It was an inherited civil war from the French who was essentially an oppressive colonist that also included plantations. The status quo government that was left was highly corrupt -- that being in the south. Thus it was hard to find many people loyal to what was left of the farcical vestiges of the French colony and the plantation system.
American involvement was always passive and played within a strict set of ROEs. This began with Kennedy and ended with Nixon. Nixon played the US involvement with his own interests in mind even though he was behind Linebacker 1 and 2. In the end, he was just as much a part of the so called abandonment of Vietnam as was the Democratically controlled congress at the time. The ROE were still in place and by then we had gotten too deeply involved in secret wars in Cambodia and Laos. Nixon chose the politically expedient route to pull out.
| 1261 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:37:25pm |
re: #1260 Gus 802
Yes in terms of political history, but post pull out it was specifically the withholding of military equipment and air support that ended the conflict in favour of the North Vietnamese, not the Viet Cong. It would have been equivalent to leaving South Korea without support, the North would have soon crushed them.
| 1262 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:38:29pm |
re: #1260 Gus 802
The South Vietnamese forces never had their heart in the fight except for the officers. Two factors playing into this was that it was essentially a civil war that saw a foreign country involved, the USA, which played a self interested role in the Cold War. It was an inherited civil war from the French who was essentially an oppressive colonist that also included plantations. The status quo government that was left was highly corrupt -- that being in the south. Thus it was hard to find many people loyal to what was left of the farcical vestiges of the French colony and the plantation system.
American involvement was always passive and played within a strict set of ROEs. This began with Kennedy and ended with Nixon. Nixon played the US involvement with his own interests in mind even though he was behind Linebacker 1 and 2. In the end, he was just as much a part of the so called abandonment of Vietnam as was the Democratically controlled congress at the time. The ROE were still in place and by then we had gotten too deeply involved in secret wars in Cambodia and Laos. Nixon chose the politically expedient route to pull out.
Still, by 1972 much of the ARVN was showing the proper degree of professionalism. Its quite possible that had we maintained their funding and air support, the could have held out long enough for the South to change into something less corrupt. It would have been worth trying IMO.
| 1263 |
Bagua Mon, Feb 15, 2010 11:47:19pm |
re: #1262 Dark_Falcon
All they needed was the resupply they were promised, that alone and basic air-support would have prevented all the horror that arose out of that media assisted own goal.
| 1266 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Feb 16, 2010 3:10:01am |
re: #1237 BryanS
This?
[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]
Never played. Seems like a bad game to play, and pointless too !
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 1267 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Feb 16, 2010 3:36:18am |
re: #1253 SanFranciscoZionist
We don't break down along neat party lines, either, some people are party people, some are not.
And some of us are just 24 Hour Party People!
| 1268 |
Jimmah Tue, Feb 16, 2010 3:58:26am |
re: #280 windsagio
I've said it a few times, and I'll say it again. He's concern-trolling.
In fairness, he might not see what he's doing himself, but its pretty clear.
Yep. I see many similarities with what the creationist concern trolls used to do here :
"Let's get one thing straight. I am not an anti-evolutionist. I believe in Darwinism. However, as someone with some experience working in this field, I regret to have to inform you that your blind devotion to and blatant ass-kissing worship of Mr Darwin, together with a total misunderstanding of basic biology and biochemistry are doing science no favours whatsoever.
Although today's self appointed 'high priests' of science will not admit it, Darwin himself accepted that his theory was flawed and untestable..."
| 1269 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Feb 16, 2010 4:16:42am |
re: #1268 Jimmah
Yep. I see many similarities with what the creationist concern trolls used to do here
Brilliant. :-)
| 1270 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Feb 16, 2010 4:45:23am |
re: #1268 Jimmah
Yep. I see many similarities with what the creationist concern trolls used to do here :
"Let's get one thing straight. I am not an anti-evolutionist. I believe in Darwinism. However, as someone with some experience working in this field, I regret to have to inform you that your blind devotion to and blatant ass-kissing worship of Mr Darwin, together with a total misunderstanding of basic biology and biochemistry are doing science no favours whatsoever.
Although today's self appointed 'high priests' of science will not admit it, Darwin himself accepted that his theory was flawed and untestable..."
This also reminds me of the template for virtually every anti-science post ever, all over the net. That's the outline for the creationist/'intelligent design' position all over-- dawkins.net, panda's thumb, pharyngula, Demski's dumb website, all of em.
Interesting how desperate they always are to claim scientists 'worship' science, are 'high priests' of Darwin, etc.
Same thing happens on religion forums too, where people claim atheists 'worship' atheism, and so on.
Pretty telling when the religious resort to doing that.
| 1271 |
Jimmah Tue, Feb 16, 2010 5:08:43am |
re: #1270 iceweasel
This also reminds me of the template for virtually every anti-science post ever, all over the net. That's the outline for the creationist/'intelligent design' position all over-- dawkins.net, panda's thumb, pharyngula, Demski's dumb website, all of em.
Interesting how desperate they always are to claim scientists 'worship' science, are 'high priests' of Darwin, etc.
Same thing happens on religion forums too, where people claim atheists 'worship' atheism, and so on.
Pretty telling when the religious resort to doing that.
Yep - the "you smell just like us" 'defence'. Not too clever, really.
| 1273 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:28:03am |
| 1274 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:53:58am |
Not this again.
I'm going to delete all of these comments now.
| 1275 |
SilentAlfa Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:16:33am |
re: #1270 iceweasel
This also reminds me of the template for virtually every anti-science post ever, all over the net. That's the outline for the creationist/'intelligent design' position all over-- dawkins.net, panda's thumb, pharyngula, Demski's dumb website, all of em.
Interesting how desperate they always are to claim scientists 'worship' science, are 'high priests' of Darwin, etc.
Same thing happens on religion forums too, where people claim atheists 'worship' atheism, and so on.
Pretty telling when the religious resort to doing that.
A good analogy I heard about this was that the religious right loves to make ridiculous assertions (e.g., white is black), then try to paint them as sounding reasonable (well if you look at a white paper in a dark room it certainly seems black). For example, they've done this with creationism and global warming. (God created life as is --> "An omnipotentl entity" created life as is, the earth isn't warming --> carbon dioxide doesn't contribute to global warming).
These people simply cannot be educated. I've tried, and I've tried very hard. They compare evolution to alien astronaut theory and tell me that I'm taking evolution 'on faith', when they themselves are promoting creationism in schools and claiming that separation of church and state is literally a 'progressive plot'. It's really rather disappointing how people interpret religion, and I really think it comes from this whole idea of people fearing God rather than loving God. People concentrate on avoiding what they feel will send them to hell, rather than focusing on what they think will send them to heaven. Thus, the religious right focuses on trying to eliminate gay rights, evolution, and global warming because that's all heresy. If they were true Christians, they'd want people to be properly educated and ready to solve the country's problems.
In short, it's pretty dangerous to have government policy controlled by religious extremists who think the only way to save people's souls is to make them ignorant.
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