Coming Soon: More Nuclear Power Plants

Environment • Views: 3,384

President Obama throws down the nuclear power gauntlet.

On Tuesday, President Obama will announce plans to break ground on two new nuclear reactors at a Southern Company plant in Burke, Georgia — the� first new U.S. nuclear reactors since the incident at Three Mile Island in 1979.

The president will make the announcement at the IBEW Local Headquarters in Lanham, Md., where union members can learn applications that can be used in the construction of nuclear power plants.

The White House is making no bones about the fact that they see this announcement as advancing two agenda items: clean energy and efforts at bipartisanship.

“In the State of the Union and at the House Republican Conference retreat, the President made clear that he is willing to work with Republicans towards a comprehensive solution to our energy challenges,” a White House official said. “By announcing plans today to break ground on the first new nuclear reactors in nearly three decades, the President is making good on his offer to meet Republicans halfway.”

The official said that pro-nuke Republicans now need to return the favor.

“Republicans who advocate for nuclear power have to recognize that we will not achieve a big boost in nuclear capacity unless we also create a system of incentives to make clean energy profitable,” the official said. “As long as producing carbon pollution carries no costs, plants that burn fossil fuel will be more cost effective than nuclear plants.”

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678 comments
1 euphgeek  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:37:02pm

Republican senators voting against nuclear power in 3...2...1...

2 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:37:03pm

A Republican President could not make this fly, given the energy corporate reputation. I can only wonder if even a Dem can get this by the far left enviro advocates.

3 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:39:28pm

Thank you, Mr. President. We have our differences, but I do thank you for taking this important step forward.

4 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:40:18pm

re: #1 euphgeek

Republican senators voting against nuclear power in 3...2...1...

They'll vote for it. Some in the Tea Party crowd will scream, but on this matter Obama will get some GOP support.

5 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:40:20pm

Typical commie, librul environmentalist.

/wait, what?

6 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:42:43pm

This will throw the lefty environmentalists into a tizzy.

Now Nevada should let the radioactive waste into the storage place there.

Nuclear plants are a tempting terrorist target if you just let the spent fuel rods sit in water ponds at the plants, which is mostly what happens now.

Gee this is an interesting move, but it is a reaction, and we have not had a sensible energy policy for many decades.

Watch another political shouting match start up.

7 swamprat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:43:15pm

Go for it big O! This will piss off the greenies on the left, and a lot of oil guys funding the right.

That's how you know it is the right thing to do.

8 euphgeek  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:43:17pm

re: #4 Dark_Falcon

I hope you're right that this time they will actually be honest.

9 freetoken  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:44:13pm

re: #2 Rightwingconspirator

There are many dangers with nuclear energy. That is not a fantasy.

However, it is also true that with careful management, strategic planning, and closely watched execution, not to mention good engineering, nuclear power plants can be no more harmful, and probably in the long run much less harmful, than coal powered plants.

What we need in this country are two new nuclear efforts: (1) a plan to reuse (not store in Yucca Mt.) the spent fuel rods in a safe manner, which can be done with a "breeder" type of reactor, and (2) a long term strategy to use thorium reactors, which are safer and the fuel of which will likely be more cost effective in the century-long view of things.

However, to pile upon my lament downstairs, given the way our American society has turned into a populist sea of anti-modern drivel, the ability to carry out a multi-decadal political, scientific, and engineering effort on the scale needed is in doubt.

10 keloyd  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:44:15pm

Rightwingconspirator -
Or Obama is a Jedi master. Three Republican presidents could not laissez-faire their way through this Gordian knot, if that can be a verb. W couldn't even lean on the people who controlled that bit of ocean by Teddy Kennedy's compound. Now the Nuclear power lobbyists had only to touch the hem of his garment and they're getting their permits.

On top of that, coal has so much crud in it, so they told me in high school, that you put more radiation in the environment than a nuclear power plant that's not melting down.

11 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:44:37pm

Of course the vast majority of those nuclear power jobs will go to unionized gay unicorns, most of whom don't even speak english.

12 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:45:42pm

I read a post on a leftie blog today saying that this makes Obama's presidency Bush's third term.

13 b_Snark  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:45:47pm

Now, if we can get Harper to do the same here in Canuckville...

14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:46:15pm

re: #1 euphgeek

You think so? I don't.

15 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:46:47pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

Of course the vast majority of those nuclear power jobs will go to unionized gay unicorns, most of whom don't even speak english.

Put down the chalk, Mr. Beck, and step away from the blackboard.

16 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:46:59pm

well it's the first step...and if he wants to be a tough guy he should fire the first judge that won't toss a lawsuit in favor of a bug of some sort

17 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:47:24pm

re: #6 Ojoe

The counter argument is that transporting radioactive waste from all over the country to one central location (Yucca Mountian) is also a massive security risk.

No easy answers.

18 euphgeek  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:47:34pm

re: #14 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wish I had your optimism. :)

19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:48:12pm

re: #12 Mad Al-Jaffee

Rove, you magnificent bastard.

20 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:48:47pm

re: #17 Slumbering Behemoth

The counter argument is that transporting radioactive waste from all over the country to one central location (Yucca Mountian) is also a massive security risk.

No easy answers.

It's out in the middle of nowhere and its under a mountain. A terrorist attack could be stopped with ease. The risk is small, IMO.

21 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:49:32pm

re: #17 Slumbering Behemoth

The counter argument is that transporting radioactive waste from all over the country to one central location (Yucca Mountian) is also a massive security risk.

No easy answers.

you can't hurt the drums the waste travel in....virtually impossible to breech them....get moving and get it done....Yucca Mt is a perfect solution

22 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:50:00pm
23 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:50:17pm

re: #12 Mad Al-Jaffee

I read a post on a leftie blog today saying that this makes Obama's presidency Bush's third term.

Just this?

24 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:51:03pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

Of course the vast majority of those nuclear power jobs will go to unionized gay unicorns, most of whom don't even speak english.

Hmmmm...
ACORN
unicorn

Need a Beck diagram, stat!

25 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:51:05pm

re: #22 MikeySDCA

O to be a fly on the wall at the Faculty Clubs across America today. Bambi truly betrayed his base on this one.

whatever, the base has no counter solutions that make any sense...they don't count

26 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:51:24pm

re: #9 freetoken

As I see it Yucca is where you put the waste until you know how to re use it. secure remote and stable. Pebble bed reactors and other technologies put this in reach. We already kill with coal. Somehow dead from coal is much more acceptable than dead from mining or refining or using radioactives. Go figure.

27 freetoken  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:51:47pm

re: #22 MikeySDCA

President Obama was not an "anti-nuke" type to begin with, being from Il., a state with a large nuclear power industry and as a politician was shown to be non-hostile to them.

Indeed, during the primary campaign many of the anti-nuke activists were anti-Obama.

28 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:52:02pm

re: #22 MikeySDCA

O to be a fly on the wall at the Faculty Clubs across America today. Bambi truly betrayed his base on this one.

I'd just say that Obama finally made a compromise. Since he is acting in good faith on this issue, the GOP should reciprocate.

29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:52:21pm

re: #24 iceweasel

Oh dammit... now that's funny.

30 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:53:15pm

re: #23 Slumbering Behemoth

Just this?

It was part of an angry rant against Obama, but that was the most memorable part.

31 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:53:29pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

Absolutely.

32 Lidane  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:53:30pm

re: #12 Mad Al-Jaffee

I read a post on a leftie blog today saying that this makes Obama's presidency Bush's third term.

I'm totally behind on my talking points. I thought that not immediately bringing the troops home made this Bush's third term. Or the fact that Gitmo's still open. Or the fact that Bush and Cheney weren't immediately sent to Supermax without passing GO and collecting $200.

This is what I get for completely disengaging from the blogosphere aside from LGF, ThinkProgress, and Balloon Juice. I miss all the good wankery about Obama being another Bush.

33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:53:33pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

It's out in the middle of nowhere and its under a mountain. A terrorist attack could be stopped with ease. The risk is small, IMO.

The concern with that argument is what could happen in transit, not once it's stored.

re: #21 albusteve

you can't hurt the drums the waste travel in...

But can you steal them? That's the concern being voiced.

Yucca Mt is a perfect solution

Not perfect, but damned good enough until we come up with something more "damned gooder".

34 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:54:12pm

I dislike most of Obama's policies, from his health care overhaul, to TARP, to the bailout, there is much to dislike.

For the first time of his presidency, I find he is doing something I really support and fervently hope he succeeds getting done. It is about time we returned to nuclear power. Here's hoping it's just a start to even more being done.

35 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:54:37pm

Jobs. Otherwise this makes no economic sense. Just as the fossil fuel industry doesn't pay it's fair share, the nuclear industry only survives with massive subsidies. Ever thus. Ever will be.

36 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:55:11pm

re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth

Not perfect, but damned good enough until we come up with something more "damned gooder".

people watch too much television....it would be far easier to steal the waste now, and nobody has...almost impossible to mount that type of operation these days

37 keloyd  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:55:31pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

I'm with the dark falcon on this one. If Yucca Mountain is the one with the underground caves encased in salt that got onto the Discovery Channel, before it went to wrestling and lumberjacks, then terrorists will never make any trouble there.

Seriously, I could drive my pickup and a uhaul trailer full of whatever Timothy McVeigh used to 20 nonnuclear juicy targets within a day's drive and cause no end of havoc. Well, it would end after one successful attempt. In any event, suicide bombers must be really stupid, like 3 Stooges stupid, to not figure out how to do what a redneck and a credit card did in Oklahoma 17 years ago. Our enemies' incompetent boobery knows no bounds.

In 30 years when it's the Chinese or Russians, then our nuclear targets will be in trouble, imho.

38 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:55:37pm

I work with a few private utilities, one of which built a nuke years ago. It was budgeted to return its investment in 25 years. It did so in less than 12. There have been quite a few permitting requests for more of these plants from numerous utilities, but no progression to build to date.

Yet the news one reads is that these plants are too expensive and will surely require taxpayer subsidies to happen.

Explain that.

I may be wrong but companies would not be filing for permits if they were not apt to be profitable. And there have been a lot of filings.

So much disinformation methinks. Sure looks like a game of high stakes poker and guess who is going to get poked?

Dear Mr. Government,
Permit the plants, get the hell out of the way.

Sincerely,
T.S. Do

39 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:55:43pm

re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth

The concern with that argument is what could happen in transit, not once it's stored.

Perhaps we should build some armored trains to transport the stuff. Have the waste trucks accompanied by gun cars topped with M2 Bradley turrets.

/Sorry, but I'm an armored train fan.

40 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:55:46pm

re: #27 freetoken

Maybe if we painted peace signs on the cooling towers?

Maybe happy little trees?

41 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:56:34pm

re: #12 Mad Al-Jaffee

I read a post on a leftie blog today saying that this makes Obama's presidency Bush's third term.

How? Didn't we just have the discussion where Bush couldn't even get one Nuclear power plant built?

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:57:08pm

re: #34 BryanS

For the first time of his presidency, I find he is doing something I really support and fervently hope he succeeds getting done. It is about time we returned to nuclear power. Here's hoping it's just a start to even more being done.

So you are saying: for the first time in the Obama Presidency, you are proud to be....

43 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:57:12pm

re: #34 BryanS

I dislike most of Obama's policies, from his health care overhaul, to TARP, to the bailout, there is much to dislike.

For the first time of his presidency, I find he is doing something I really support and fervently hope he succeeds getting done. It is about time we returned to nuclear power. Here's hoping it's just a start to even more being done.

if those nutters in CA don't get on line quick, they won't even be able to bathe let alone save their agribusiness....if the western drought continues, in a few years Lake Meade will be a mud puddle

44 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:57:21pm

re: #10 keloyd


On top of that, coal has so much crud in it, so they told me in high school, that you put more radiation in the environment than a nuclear power plant that's not melting down.


That is not very accurate.

45 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 7:57:30pm

Good news and bad news. Good that we'll finally build more nuke plants; bad because he will place onerous taxes on the coal industry that will cost Americans lots of money.

“Republicans who advocate for nuclear power have to recognize that we will not achieve a big boost in nuclear capacity unless we also create a system of incentives to make clean energy profitable,” the official said. “As long as producing carbon pollution carries no costs, plants that burn fossil fuel will be more cost effective than nuclear plants.”

46 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:00:00pm
47 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:00:06pm

Now the question arises, will this come to fruition or will this be yet another of a an unfulfilled goal to the argumentative and litigious nature of American society? The technology is there for all aspects of nuclear power and that includes the recycling of spent fuel rods as well as long term storage. It is high time that we stop the never ending studies and debates and bring back that can-do attitude that made this country great -- just get it done.

48 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:00:07pm

re: #36 albusteve

people watch too much television...it would be far easier to steal the waste now, and nobody has...almost impossible to mount that type of operation these days

I don't watch hardly any television, so help me out here. How is it easier to steal the waste stored as it is now, on site, than to steal it in transit?

49 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:00:40pm

re: #45 SeafoodGumbo

Good news and bad news. Good that we'll finally build more nuke plants; bad because he will place onerous taxes on the coal industry that will cost Americans lots of money.

And that's where the GOP comes in: By helping to craft this bill, we can ensure that the taxes are not as severe as they otherwise would be. We can also push for cleaner coal research. This is an issue we can negotiate with Obama on, and we should do so.

50 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:01:29pm

re: #45 SeafoodGumbo

Good news and bad news. Good that we'll finally build more nuke plants; bad because he will place onerous taxes on the coal industry that will cost Americans lots of money.

That money is already being spent. You have no idea how much money power generators have already spent to clean the process.

51 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:01:30pm

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So you are saying: for the first time in the Obama Presidency, you are proud to be...

A Repulican supporting an Obama policy.

52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:01:35pm

Remember "The Pepsi Syndrome" on SNL about a million years ago?

53 freetoken  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:01:44pm

On a related note, this week the AAAS is holding their annual meeting here in San Diego.

Lots of the normal type of sessions on just about any topic in the realm of science.

Under the general program of Understanding Environmental Change, which covers a broad range of topics, they are having on Monday a panel on Understanding Climate-Change Skepticism: Its Sources and Strategies

Of the three presentations under that heading, one that I think needs particular attention is the last: Use of Scientific Certainty Argumentation Methods in Climate Debates

[...]
The findings add further support to the growing realization that media coverage of supposed debates has been strongly skewed by a tactic so widespread that it has its own name -- "Scientific Certainty" Argumentation Methods, or SCAMS. Partly because most citizens expect science to produce black-and-white certainty, rather than cumulative or "normal" improvements in understanding, well-funded special interest groups can exploit mass-media desire for controversy in stories, creating a false impression that "scientists" are still debating consensus findings. Similar SCAMs were used in fights against the regulation of cigarette smoking, asbestos, agricultural chemicals, and even the use of lead in gasoline. [...]

We've seen this just the other day with the Jones' statement to the BBC being misrepresented by the DailyMail and numerous online sites.

54 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:01:51pm

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

Carbon capture can be developed, to ease the long tailpipe for electric cars etc.

55 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:02:41pm

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

And that's where the GOP comes in: By helping to craft this bill, we can ensure that the taxes are not as severe as they otherwise would be. We can also push for cleaner coal research. This is an issue we can negotiate with Obama on, and we should do so.

Maybe, I hope so, and we'll see...

56 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:02:42pm

re: #47 Gus 802

Now the question arises, will this come to fruition or will this be yet another of a an unfulfilled goal to the argumentative and litigious nature of American society? The technology is there for all aspects of nuclear power and that includes the recycling of spent fuel rods as well as long term storage. It is high time that we stop the never ending studies and debates and bring back that can-do attitude that made this country great -- just get it done.

50/50 so far

57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:02:58pm

re: #18 euphgeek

re: #51 BryanS

Hey, Geek? You see that?

Yep. You saw it.

58 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:03:05pm

re: #50 The Shadow Do

Thats all sulphur/soot scrubbers right? No carbon capture yet I think.

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:03:24pm

G'night knuckleheads.

60 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:03:43pm

Now he's really gone and done it. The left will see this as another in a long list of issues where they think he has caved--Iraq, Afghanistan, public option, etc.

As for the right, well he shouldn't hold his breath waiting for bipartisanship to bloom based on this one announcement.

Clinton style triangulation--sometimes smart politics is also good policy.

61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:04:50pm

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

Perhaps we should build some armored trains to transport the stuff. Have the waste trucks accompanied by gun cars topped with M2 Bradley turrets.

/Sorry, but I'm an armored train fan.

Not too far fetched, IMO. If we are to do this, and I want to see us do this, I want to know that those shipments are secured tighter than an angry nun's "you know what".

62 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:04:53pm

re: #48 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't watch hardly any television, so help me out here. How is it easier to steal the waste stored as it is now, on site, than to steal it in transit?

because it's scattered all across the country, sitting behind chain link fences protected by sleepy, sloppy security guards reading Hustler magazines and smoking pot all day?

63 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:05:20pm

re: #58 Rightwingconspirator

Thats all sulphur/soot scrubbers right? No carbon capture yet I think.

NOX, Sulphur, heavy metals. No, no carbon to date though a recent move to implement a demonstration plant for doing so was defunded.

No on want coal burners. Stupid. I guess it must be because it is black?

*runs away*

64 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:05:24pm

From my purely unscientific viewpoint and anecdotal experience I don't think that the anti-nuke sentiment is as strong as it once was. Sure there'll still be the diehards but I think there's been a softening of the periphery and with the fence sitters.

I know a good many lefties and other environmentalists who have changed their opinions on the issue and moved away from staunch opposition. If I was to ponder on why I think it's a mixture of advances in technology that make it safer, advances in disposal techniques and the threat of climate change that's bearing down on all of us.

I'm not opposed to it but do have concerns about disposal and containment systems and would want to make damn sure that regulations of those and general safety are good and sound.

I'd also like to see a focus on a mixed energy system that can include nuclear and that takes advantage of alternative energy systems where efficient resources exist as well as strategies that focus on conservation of energy through efficient design and it's use.

65 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:05:30pm

re: #57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #51 BryanS

Hey, Geek? You see that?

Yep. You saw it.

Huh? This Republican was writing in favor of nuclear power. Misread my post, or do I misunderstand what you are saying?

66 political lunatic  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:05:49pm

Catastrophic meltdown caused by Homer Simpson right after one of these things open in 3... 2... 1...

67 keloyd  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:06:01pm

re: #44 The Shadow Do
It is an accurate portrayal of my recollection from high school. Still, even though my knowledge is a bit dated, Wiki backs me up re radioactive trace elements from burning coal. Also, I am obviously ignoring the radioactive solid waste, but other countries have addressed that issue in a competent manner. We can just cheat and copy Europe.

A nuclear power plant in good running order vs. a typical coal plant are no match at all for pollution. Coal releases more of everything into the air including radioactivity.

68 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:06:19pm

Hot Air has video of Glenn Beck's response to the NYT Tea Party article. The stupidity is just so frustrating. He also goes on to blame the proffessor shooting last wing on left wing radicalism. He sees no extremism in the Tea Parties. Ugh.

69 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:06:56pm

re: #66 political lunatic

Catastrophic meltdown caused by Homer Simpson right after one of these things open in 3... 2... 1...

"Do you even know what button you're suppose to press?"

"Moe......"

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:07:02pm

re: #4 Dark_Falcon

They'll vote for it. Some in the Tea Party crowd will scream, but on this matter Obama will get some GOP support.

And good for everyone...this is something that might push back the Tea Party wave.

71 TampaKnight  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:07:36pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

Hot Air has video of Glenn Beck's response to the NYT Tea Party article. The stupidity is just so frustrating. He also goes on to blame the proffessor shooting last wing on left wing radicalism. He sees no extremism in the Tea Parties. Ugh.

I won't defend him, but there was a report that the teacher was a left-wing radical.

Just sayin'....when a right wing nut plans or carries out a terrible plan, it's always noted that they're "right wing".

72 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:07:40pm

re: #62 albusteve

because it's scattered all across the country, sitting behind chain link fences protected by sleepy, sloppy security guards reading Hustler magazines and smoking pot all day?

Not quite. Not hardly.

73 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:07:41pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

Hot Air has video of Glenn Beck's response to the NYT Tea Party article. The stupidity is just so frustrating. He also goes on to blame the proffessor shooting last wing on left wing radicalism. He sees no extremism in the Tea Parties. Ugh.

he's an extremist himself

74 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:07:48pm

This is why I have my worries about what Obama might do:

Dept. of Energy

America – and much of the world -- is becoming increasingly electrified. Today, more than half of the electricity generated in the United States comes from coal. For the foreseeable future, coal will continue to be the dominant fuel used for electric power production. The low cost and abundance of coal is one of the primary reasons why consumers in the United States benefit from some of the lowest electricity rates of any free-market economy.

Obama Told SF Chronicle He Would 'Bankrupt' the Coal Industry

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.

And today...

“As long as producing carbon pollution carries no costs, plants that burn fossil fuel will be more cost effective than nuclear plants.”

75 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:08:23pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

And good for everyone...this is something that might push back the Tea Party wave.

It's an issue that SHOULD have support from all parts of the political spectrum.

76 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:08:39pm

re: #66 political lunatic

Catastrophic meltdown caused by Homer Simpson right after one of these things open in 3... 2... 1...

D'oh!

77 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:08:47pm

If we really had a vision for Nuclear power we would start ground up..
Planning.. Training.. You need Nuclear Engineers, Pipefitters, Inspectors.Stationary Engineers..Safety, IT, Management..Radcon codes
We start at the College level..Look..We have a vision..We got money..We got jobs..Take a Nuclear Engineering degree..
Also you get the shovel ready projects...We have safe highly exact reactors available..We need the modern workforce to support the future of advanced clean energy..
Or else give up and hire the French.. They know Nuclear power...
Where is the American Vision?

78 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:09:26pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I'm sure when that prof. shot her own brother 20 years ago, that was somehow the fault of left-wing radicals as well.

Beck sometimes calls himself a "rodeo clown". Is there any reason to disagree with his self-assessment? He's a lowbrow huckster.

79 TampaKnight  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:09:48pm

I love the move to nuclear energy. I just hope this isn't a "bone" being fed to Republicans to push through a more expansive Cap and Trade bill, which seems possible.

80 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:10:20pm

re: #77 HoosierHoops

If we really had a vision for Nuclear power we would start ground up..
Planning.. Training.. You need Nuclear Engineers, Pipefitters, Inspectors.Stationary Engineers..Safety, IT, Management..Radcon codes
We start at the College level..Look..We have a vision..We got money..We got jobs..Take a Nuclear Engineering degree..
Also you get the shovel ready projects...We have safe highly exact reactors available..We need the modern workforce to support the future of advanced clean energy..
Or else give up and hire the French.. They know Nuclear power...
Where is the American Vision?

If you build it they will come.....

(to the buildings where they get training I'd argue it makes more sense to make sure we've got the damn thing built first since nobody is going to want to train in an field that might not have any job openings... but then there are still English Majors....)

81 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:10:40pm

re: #72 Slumbering Behemoth

Not quite. Not hardly.

whatever, the AEC spends a ton of money guarding waste now...very imefficient to have it all over the place, and certainly less secure than Yucca MT...as for stealing it in transit, that just won't happen

82 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:10:47pm

re: #67 keloyd


A nuclear power plant in good running order vs. a typical coal plant are no match at all for pollution. Coal releases more of everything into the air including radioactivity.


No argument there, but if anyone thinks Nukes are a magic bullet they have another thing coming. We need clean coal, we need nukes, we need gas, geothermal, hydro, solar, wind, et al. Stupid to choose favorites when all means to energy production need exploited to the full.

/the scary radioactive thing is, well....scary
//

83 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:10:50pm

re: #79 TampaKnight

I love the move to nuclear energy. I just hope this isn't a "bone" being fed to Republicans to push through a more expansive Cap and Trade bill, which seems possible.

Not enough votes and too much resistance from many Democrats.

84 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:11:37pm

re: #79 TampaKnight

I love the move to nuclear energy. I just hope this isn't a "bone" being fed to Republicans to push through a more expansive Cap and Trade bill, which seems possible.

ITS A TRAP!

85 Opal  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:12:28pm

re: #47 Gus 802

"The technology is there for all aspects of nuclear power and that includes the recycling of spent fuel rods as well as long term storage. It is high time that we stop the never ending studies and debates and bring back that can-do attitude that made this country great -- just get it done."

Yup...This from Steve Kirsch:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

(snip)

"We invented a superior power generation technology in 1974, but killed it for political reasons in 1994

The good news is we have such a magical power technology. The big surprise is that it isn't new. It's old. It is a fast nuclear reactor known as the Integral Fast Reactor (IFR) that was developed by a team of hundreds of scientists working for more than 20 years at our top government national laboratory for nuclear energy (Argonne National Laboratory, at its branches in Illinois and Idaho)." - full article at the link above

86 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:13:02pm

re: #74 SeafoodGumbo

This is why I have my worries about what Obama might do:

Dept. of Energy

That old campaign sound byte is irrelevant today. That being "I will bankrupt the coal industry." A large portion of coal states are represented by Democrats.

87 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:13:11pm

re: #84 jamesfirecat

Right, because "we don't know how big the room is, or who's gonna be there, what's the setup?"

88 TampaKnight  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:13:13pm

re: #84 jamesfirecat

ITS A TRAP!

Most of legislating is playing "the game".

Stop patronizing and start thinking.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:13:39pm

re: #22 MikeySDCA

O to be a fly on the wall at the Faculty Clubs across America today. Bambi truly betrayed his base on this one.

They ain't the base.

90 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:14:02pm

re: #84 jamesfirecat

ITS A TRAP!

Yeah. Some people can't resist turning this into another conspiracy or rag session.

91 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:14:04pm

re: #88 TampaKnight

Methinks he was kidding, riffing on Boehner.

92 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:14:05pm

re: #79 TampaKnight

I love the move to nuclear energy. I just hope this isn't a "bone" being fed to Republicans to push through a more expansive Cap and Trade bill, which seems possible.

Agreed. It needs to replace resources that we buy overseas IN ADDITION to coal for me to buy in.

93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:14:30pm

re: #81 albusteve

whatever, the AEC spends a ton of money guarding waste now...very imefficient to have it all over the place, and certainly less secure than Yucca MT...

Perhaps.

as for stealing it in transit, that just won't happen

I'd feel more confident about that assertion if someone like Dark Falcon were in charge of transportation.

94 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:14:47pm

re: #80 jamesfirecat

If you build it they will come...

(to the buildings where they get training I'd argue it makes more sense to make sure we've got the damn thing built first since nobody is going to want to train in an field that might not have any job openings... but then there are still English Majors...)

The beautiful thing about it is that the private Nuclear Plants can Hires Nukes leaving the Navy by the Thousands every year...
Just in case nobody has notice...
The United States Navy is World Class running Reactors....
/Psss.they don't even need your tips or advice.. They got it covered

95 swamprat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:15:24pm

re: #12 Mad Al-Jaffee

I read a post on a leftie blog today saying that this makes Obama's presidency Bush's third term.

Because everybody knows Bush is anti-oil and pro-nuclear energy!

Wait...what?

96 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:15:42pm

re: #22 MikeySDCA

O to be a fly on the wall at the Faculty Clubs across America today. Bambi truly betrayed his base on this one.

Bambi, huh? Do you also call them "Spend-o-crats"?

97 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:15:43pm

re: #74 SeafoodGumbo

This is why I have my worries about what Obama might do:

Dept. of Energy

I'm aware of the risk, but in this case it must be run. We need these new plants and the price of the progress we want is that Barack Obama gets some of the progress he wants.

98 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:15:47pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth

I'd feel more confident about that assertion if someone like Dark Falcon were in charge of transportation.

Jesse James is long dead...it's just not an issue

99 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:16:34pm

re: #84 jamesfirecat

ITS A TRAP!

Paranoia The Destroyah :D

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:16:37pm

re: #75 BryanS

It's an issue that SHOULD have support from all parts of the political spectrum.

The Tea Partiers will HATE it.

101 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:16:49pm

re: #86 Gus 802

That old campaign sound byte is irrelevant today. That being "I will bankrupt the coal industry." A large portion of coal states are represented by Democrats.

If it is a politically bad idea now, wasn't it a politically bad idea then, too?

Maybe it's what he really wants...

102 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:16:53pm

re: #98 albusteve

Jesse James is long dead...it's just not an issue

It is cheaper, to build the rail road around Missouri....

103 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:17:01pm

re: #95 swamprat

Because everybody knows Bush is anti-oil and pro-nuclear energy!

Wait...what?

Funny how partisanship makes up look down and down look up the wingnuts on both sides.

104 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:17:03pm

re: #71 TampaKnight

I won't defend him, but there was a report that the teacher was a left-wing radical.

Just sayin'...when a right wing nut plans or carries out a terrible plan, it's always noted that they're "right wing".

She might have been a left wing nutcase but her crimes were motivated by personal/profession grudges and not politics. Her political leaning were not relevant to her crimes, unlike the Tea Parties who have been arrested stockpiling weapons to use against their fellow Americans. Very different cases.

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:17:22pm

re: #87 palomino

Right, because "we don't know how big the room is, or who's gonna be there, what's the setup?"

Tigers. They have tigers.

106 TampaKnight  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:17:50pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

She might have been a left wing nutcase but her crimes were motivated by personal/profession grudges and not politics. Her political leaning were not relevant to her crimes, unlike the Tea Parties who have been arrested stockpiling weapons to use against their fellow Americans. Very different cases.

A radical is a radical.

107 SeafoodGumbo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:18:03pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

I'm aware of the risk, but in this case it must be run. We need these new plants and the price of the progress we want is that Barack Obama gets some of the progress he wants.

We'll just have to see what the "deal" looks like, I guess.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:18:38pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

She might have been a left wing nutcase but her crimes were motivated by personal/profession grudges and not politics. Her political leaning were not relevant to her crimes, unlike the Tea Parties who have been arrested stockpiling weapons to use against their fellow Americans. Very different cases.

Although it's worth noting that a deep and obsessive attachment to political figures is never a good sign of emotional stability.

109 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:18:43pm

re: #106 TampaKnight

A radical is a radical.

BO seems to breed them somehow..alot of people don't like him too much

110 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:18:45pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

I'm aware of the risk, but in this case it must be run. We need these new plants and the price of the progress we want is that Barack Obama gets some of the progress he wants.

That's how it should be--party in power gets the balance of what they want to achieve so long as they don't entirely ignore out the opposition's reasonable demands.

111 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:18:59pm

re: #84 jamesfirecat

ITS A TRAP!

And you've fallen into it! My Super Star Destroyer and its consorts will hold you at bay until Varek comes back with his superlaser and finishes the job.

/Return of the Jedi geekage

112 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:19:10pm

re: #106 TampaKnight

A radical is a radical.

I think you're mistaking radical overthrow the government for simple crazy, shoot people because you're denied tenure, shoot you're own brother for god knows what reason....

113 prairiefire  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:19:20pm

re: #98 albusteve

Jesse James may be long dead, but there are still a hell of a lot of bank robbers.

114 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:19:22pm

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

The Tea Partiers will HATE it.

Fine by me, though not sure why.

115 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:19:49pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

Tigers. They have tigers.

So, you're saying I should bring the howdah pistol?

116 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:20:03pm

re: #106 TampaKnight

A radical is a radical.

Why look at facts? it's so much more fun to just moosh it all together into grey rhetorical paste. A criminal is a radical, a radical is a crazy guy, and a crazy guy is a wizard who casts spells from his crystal tower in the mists of time. 9_9

let's just say I'm glad law enforcement tries to put finer distinctions on motive in criminal investigations than you do.

117 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:20:03pm

re: #101 SeafoodGumbo

If it is a politically bad idea now, wasn't it a politically bad idea then, too?

Maybe it's what he really wants...

What he really wants? I don't know, I can't read minds. He's just a president not a dictator.

118 TampaKnight  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:20:17pm

re: #112 jamesfirecat

I think you're mistaking radical overthrow the government for simple crazy, shoot people because you're denied tenure, shoot you're own brother for god knows what reason...

No. Switch the story to "right-wing radical" all her life and this is suddenly a story about a crazed right-wing nutjob who finally acted out on her radical impulses.

119 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:20:30pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

Or maybe an army of little green men who will ambush only the republicans in the room. Like in Mars Attacks.

120 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:20:31pm

re: #113 prairiefire

Jesse James may be long dead, but there are still a hell of a lot of bank robbers.

and virtually impossible to get away with....a very small few do, but it's extremely rare

121 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:20:32pm

re: #78 palomino

Yeah, I'm sure when that prof. shot her own brother 20 years ago, that was somehow the fault of left-wing radicals as well.

Beck sometimes calls himself a "rodeo clown". Is there any reason to disagree with his self-assessment? He's a lowbrow huckster.

Some super-freaky stuff coming out about Amy Bishop. Don't know if it's been mentioned, but when she was a doctoral candidate she was convinced one prof was going to tank her PhD.

He and his wife came home from a trip to find a mail bomb. FBI investigated her and no one was ever charged.

Bishop acknowledged at the time being questioned in the bombing attempt of a Harvard medical doctor evaluating her on doctorate work, a professor with whom Bishop was known to quarrel, Fluckiger said.

Reyes confirmed he is working with the FBI to learn more about why Bishop was a suspect in the attempted bombing of Dr. Paul Rosenberg, who received a double-pipe bomb in the mail on Dec. 19, 1993. He ran from his Newton home with his wife, escaping without injury. The bomb never exploded.


Anyway-- despite the wingnut howlings on the right, her politics had nothing to do with her crime(s). One messed up individual.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:20:46pm

re: #114 BryanS

Fine by me, though not sure why.

Do you want the actual why, or the why they will provide when asked?

123 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:20:49pm

re: #106 TampaKnight

A radical is a radical.


Agreed. However, the specifics of the crimes are completely different. She did not commit murder based of conspiracies fed to her by Obama. The Tea Partiers who've been arrested were stockpiling weapons because Glenn Beck and the Tea Parties feed them paranoid conspiracies. The cases of the Tea Parties and the college professor are very different. It's impossible to equate the two.

124 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:20:51pm

re: #112 jamesfirecat

I think you're mistaking radical overthrow the government for simple crazy, shoot people because you're denied tenure, shoot you're own brother for god knows what reason...

But it's a liberal, see! We need another shipment of Cherry Tu Quoque from the distributor for our sock hop tonight!

125 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:21:12pm

re: #107 SeafoodGumbo

We'll just have to see what the "deal" looks like, I guess.

True that. The good news is that the GOP does have a limeted amount of say in what the deal looks like.

126 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:21:17pm

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

The Tea Partiers will HATE it.

If they do that's going to create a really bizarre convergence between then and more left wing environmental diehards.
I'm trying to figure out what their particular 'talking points' would be.

127 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:21:24pm

re: #113 prairiefire

Jesse James may be long dead, but there are still a hell of a lot of bank robbers.

Jesse isn't dead!
Jeez you almost gave Sandra a Stroke
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

128 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:22:07pm

New nuclear plants? What a splendid idea.

129 TampaKnight  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:22:21pm

So, let me get this straight.

Well know "right wing nuts" who stockpile, but haven't previously used weapons are dangerous thugs (true!).

Well know "left wing nut" who takes a gun and shoots dead 3 colleagues after a documented life of extremism and paranoia.....is ok.

Oh, got it!

130 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:22:23pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you want the actual why, or the why they will provide when asked?

I can guess the actual why--opposing it to deny a political win to their opponent. Not sure they would have a good argument they can feed the public.

131 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:22:29pm

re: #126 Jadespring

If they do that's going to create a really bizarre convergence between then and more left wing environmental diehards.
I'm trying to figure out what their particular 'talking points' would be.

Simple, the Green Tea party!

132 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:22:36pm

re: #103 BryanS

Funny how partisanship makes up look down and down look up the wingnuts on both sides.

There are right wing nutcases on both sides?

133 laZardo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:23:00pm

re: #128 Bagua

New nuclear plants? What a splendid idea.

Despite the fact that the spectre of Three Mile Island still hangs low over the American psyche.

/new safety innovations be damned.

134 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:23:11pm

re: #129 TampaKnight

ummm, who's saying that?

135 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:23:18pm

re: #98 albusteve

Jesse James is long dead...it's just not an issue

Actually, there were train robberies in the US as late as the 20's and 30's.

136 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:23:23pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Kilgore, how sure are we these folks were not stockpiling before Obama, Tea Parties, back when Beck was just an oddity on CNN?

137 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:23:23pm

re: #131 jamesfirecat

Simple, the Green Tea party!

Stop that! It hurts my brain.

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:23:38pm

re: #118 TampaKnight

No. Switch the story to "right-wing radical" all her life and this is suddenly a story about a crazed right-wing nutjob who finally acted out on her radical impulses.

No, you have a story about the crazed right-wing nutjob who finally acted on her craziness. As in this case. This woman clearly was emotionally disturbed, and may have had left-wing political leanings, but unless it turns out that Olbermann has been telling people that the Republicans are going to take away their tenure, the key issue remains that she didn't want to lose her career, so she shot several people.

139 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:23:52pm

re: #133 laZardo

Despite the fact that the spectre of Three Mile Island still hangs low over the American psyche.

/new safety innovations be damned.

Spectre smecktre, we're not afraid of no Ghosts!

140 laZardo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:23:58pm

re: #132 Jimmah

There are right wing nutcases on both sides?

According to Webster's, wingnut is generic.

/definition #3.

141 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:24:02pm

re: #129 TampaKnight

So, let me get this straight.

Well know "right wing nuts" who stockpile, but haven't previously used weapons are dangerous thugs (true!).

Well know "left wing nut" who takes a gun and shoots dead 3 colleagues after a documented life of extremism and paranoia...is ok.

Oh, got it!

Its not legal for a private citizen to own a grenade launcher used or unused.

142 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:24:07pm

is there someone here at LGF connecting this nut's politics to her crimes, or is this another television fantasy?....I missed the connection

143 Altermite  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:24:41pm

re: #142 albusteve

is there someone here at LGF connecting this nut's politics to her crimes

Yes.

144 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:24:49pm

re: #126 Jadespring

If they do that's going to create a really bizarre convergence between then and more left wing environmental diehards.
I'm trying to figure out what their particular 'talking points' would be.

There's already a convergence. Far left-wing paranoids and tea-partiers both love the 9/11 truth nonsense and the Art bell/George Norry X-Files stuff. it's just that one side wears Che Guevara underwear, smokes a lot of ditchweed and couchsurfs in between Phish shows, and the other side goes to monster truck rallies, shoots at junked washing machines with a hunting rifle for fun and cries whenever Darryl Worley's "Have You Forgotten" comes on the local country station.

145 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:24:53pm

re: #132 Jimmah

There are right wing nutcases on both sides?

Well, we might call the left wingnuts loons, moonbats, or some such thing, but yes there are nut-cases on both sides.

146 prairiefire  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:25:15pm

I know of a pond by a bridge on the Savannah River, Pond #5, I think, where the barrels are rusted and waste from the Savannah River site is seeping out. I think they were supposed to clean it up with the last super fund push.

147 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:25:24pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

Although it's worth noting that a deep and obsessive attachment to political figures is never a good sign of emotional stability.

True, but even if (I did say "if') she was motivated by her obsession with Obama (which she was not) it still wouldn't make any difference. Both Hinkley and Chapman were obsessed with Catcher in the Rye. However J.D Salinger is not responsible for their crimes. Crazy people do crazy things. Their inspiration is another matter. Beck feeds his viewers paranoid conspiracies and some of them are going to act on the information he gives them. Salinger just wrote a book. Big Difference.

148 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:25:25pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you want the actual why, or the why they will provide when asked?

I do! My attempt at Tea Party logic is failing on this issue.

What do you think?

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:25:38pm

re: #129 TampaKnight

So, let me get this straight.

Well know "right wing nuts" who stockpile, but haven't previously used weapons are dangerous thugs (true!).

Well know "left wing nut" who takes a gun and shoots dead 3 colleagues after a documented life of extremism and paranoia...is ok.

Oh, got it!

God, get off your faker they-did-it-too trip. Killgore patiently explained it to you, and you would just prefer to clap your hands over your ears.

150 The Shadow Do  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:25:45pm

Nite all, it's 37F in Dallas. I am going to turn my dirty lignite fired heat source up to 68 and sleep the sleep of the innocent. If ya'll want to spend some public dough on something worthwhile energy wise, tell congress to fund carbon sequestering research. Nukes will pay for themselves and the folks in W. VA and WY will be eternally grateful...also will likely piss of a Saudi or two for what that's worth.

151 laZardo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:25:51pm

re: #144 WindUpBird

It's the (political) circle of life!

/and it moves us all~ o/~

152 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:25:51pm

re: #133 laZardo

Despite the fact that the spectre of Three Mile Island still hangs low over the American psyche.

/new safety innovations be damned.

However... you are quite correct. As always, the collective sub/consciousness works on the basis of fears and incomplete facts to do with actual risks, technological advances, and poker.

153 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:26:05pm

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

Actually, there were train robberies in the US as late as the 20's and 30's.

no shit...they even wrote books and made movies from the Great Train Robbery...1963

154 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:26:05pm

re: #129 TampaKnight

So, let me get this straight.

Well know "right wing nuts" who stockpile, but haven't previously used weapons are dangerous thugs (true!).

Well know "left wing nut" who takes a gun and shoots dead 3 colleagues after a documented life of extremism and paranoia...is ok.

Oh, got it!

Uh, no one said what Amy Bishop did was OK. It's still a reality that even though she is a leftist of sorts her crime was not motivated for political reasons. She has a record that includes that allegation of having murdered her brother when she was a young woman. Then there is the issue regarding the mail bomb. She clearly has a record of criminal behavior and was not part of an organized political movement that worked in concert with her violent nature.

155 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:26:18pm

re: #133 laZardo

Despite the fact that the spectre of Three Mile Island still hangs low over the American psyche.

/new safety innovations be damned.

I think it has more to do with the Simpsons personally.

156 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:27:43pm

re: #140 laZardo

According to Webster's, wingnut is generic.

/definition #3.

Wingnut is a contraction of 'right wing nutcase'. It's not 'generic' at all. I've never seen or heard of it being used that way.

157 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:27:49pm

re: #151 laZardo

It's the (political) circle of life!

/and it moves us all~ o/~

YOU SPIN ME RIGHT ROUND BABY RIGHT ROUND LIKE A RECORD BABY RIGHT ROUND ROUND ROUND

(whooa-whooaaoohhWHOAAAA)

158 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:28:00pm

re: #128 Bagua

New nuclear plants? What a splendid idea.


It's green..We have the Technology.. Do we have the vision?
That is the question...
Do we invest in future clean technology with 21st Century Safety safe guards?
Or will politics determine our energy goals?
We learned hard fearsome lessons in the Past.. The US Navy tacked those issues and is a flagstar for Smart safe reactors...

159 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:28:15pm

re: #152 Bagua

However... you are quite correct. As always, the collective sub/consciousness works on the basis of fears and incomplete facts to do with actual risks, technological advances, and poker.

Most people incorrectly think of nuclear explosions when they think of nuclear reactors failing. Really, three mile island was a concern, but barely a hiccup in the safety record of nuclear power.

160 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:28:47pm

re: #147 Killgore Trout

True, but even if (I did say "if') she was motivated by her obsession with Obama (which she was not) it still wouldn't make any difference. Both Hinkley and Chapman were obsessed with Catcher in the Rye. However J.D Salinger is not responsible for their crimes. Crazy people do crazy things. Their inspiration is another matter. Beck feeds his viewers paranoid conspiracies and some of them are going to act on the information he gives them. Salinger just wrote a book. Big Difference.

Sounds sort of like blaming the Beatles for Charles Manson...

161 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:28:50pm

it annoys me when some non issue that didn't even happen becomes a major talking point here....people seem to just love to type the same redundant explanation over and over just to see their words pop up...this murderer is a perfect example

162 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:29:03pm

Gosh, where is Austin_Steve? I forget how many nuclear plants he figured we need to roll out.

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:29:10pm

re: #126 Jadespring

If they do that's going to create a really bizarre convergence between then and more left wing environmental diehards.
I'm trying to figure out what their particular 'talking points' would be.

In no particular order of craziness from mildly rational to batshit barking at the moon, here are some that occur to me:

-These will be government-controlled plants! Government will control your energy! There will be an illegal government takeover of all energy providers!

-These are going to be unionized? Yeah right, they'll never be built, it's all a government plan to funnel billions into useless union jobs.

-We'll all glow in the dark! Think of the children!

-Obama could threaten to allow core meltdowns to control various areas of the country after martial law is declared.

164 prairiefire  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:29:26pm

re: #158 HoosierHoops

Hoosier, I like your big picture approach. Do you manage, like 500 people in real life? I can see you behind a lectern, inspiring the troops.

165 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:29:43pm

re: #156 Jimmah

Wingnut is a contraction of 'right wing nutcase'. It's not 'generic' at all. I've never seen or heard of it being used that way.

Then you missed the post yesterday on LGF on the book with wingnuts in its title--used to refer to both sides.

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:29:55pm

re: #129 TampaKnight

So, let me get this straight.

Well know "right wing nuts" who stockpile, but haven't previously used weapons are dangerous thugs (true!).

Well know "left wing nut" who takes a gun and shoots dead 3 colleagues after a documented life of extremism and paranoia...is ok.

Oh, got it!

Where the hell you getting that? The woman is a criminal, and probably a psychopath. I just don't think she did what she did for political reasons.

167 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:30:07pm

re: #133 laZardo

Despite the fact that the spectre of Three Mile Island still hangs low over the American psyche.

/new safety innovations be damned.

They're making video games about Chernobyl! Complete with spectral monsters hurtling out of the radioactive mists of Pripyat.

Nuclear power is something I support, as long as we're serious about safety.

168 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:30:07pm

re: #139 Bagua

Spectre smecktre, we're not afraid of no Ghosts!

Who yah gonna call?

169 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:30:16pm

re: #152 Bagua

However... you are quite correct. As always, the collective sub/consciousness works on the basis of fears and incomplete facts to do with actual risks, technological advances, and poker.

I can understand that to point, emotionally based fear and twinginess. I live near a plant and don't generally worry about it at all. I do however still get and emotional twinge when I think back to the 9/11 and the days after when security went through the roof and this was in Canada. There were even jets that flew over. It was creepy and a bit unsettling.

170 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:30:16pm

now if this killer bitch were an Eagles fan, I could easily see a connection there

171 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:30:21pm

re: #158 HoosierHoops

re: #164 prairiefire

Looks like what should be a top comment to me. But I only have 1 to give.

172 swamprat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:30:54pm

A nuclear electric plant! Yippee! Who knows what could be next? Maybe a hydro-electric dam! Maybe we could drill and pump right in America!

Why are in in this energy crunch anyway?
Oh yeah, the left environmental concerns that coincidently blocked every energy avenue except for buying oil overseas.

I hope Obama continues to break ranks with the lefts' anti-energy agenda.

173 laZardo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:30:56pm

re: #156 Jimmah

Wingnut is a contraction of 'right wing nutcase'. It's not 'generic' at all. I've never seen or heard of it being used that way.

Probably because the definition's been around since the early 20th century. Like how 'queer' used to mean just plain 'odd' before it also meant 'gay'.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:31:05pm

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

Actually, there were train robberies in the US as late as the 20's and 30's.

"You're crazy, mister. Nobody robs trains anymore."

(Produces pistol from under his jacket) "I'd say you've been misinformed."

175 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:31:08pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

-Obama uses radioactive waste to give himself super-powers, becomes presidential Galactus, consumes Earth

176 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:31:09pm

re: #145 BryanS

Well, we might call the left wingnuts loons, moonbats, or some such thing, but yes there are nut-cases on both sides.

Sure - but the nutcases on the left have always been called moonbats. Maybe we should have right wing moonbats too. They no one will know what the fuck anyone means by anything.

177 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:31:12pm

re: #154 Gus 802

Uh, no one said what Amy Bishop did was OK. It's still a reality that even though she is a leftist of sorts her crime was not motivated for political reasons. She has a record that includes that allegation of having murdered her brother when she was a young woman. Then there is the issue regarding the mail bomb. She clearly has a record of criminal behavior and was not part of an organized political movement that worked in concert with her violent nature.

Nor do her crimes-- any of them-- appear to have been predicated on anything political whatsoever. Personal grudges.

This last one is a workplace shooting, like any other. Unless she has left writings all over the place saying there's a seekrit Republican (??) conspiracy to control the tenure process, and she's decided to KILL ALL LIBS -- whoops-- it just isn't political.

178 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:31:35pm

re: #159 BryanS

Most people incorrectly think of nuclear explosions when they think of nuclear reactors failing. Really, three mile island was a concern, but barely a hiccup in the safety record of nuclear power.

Oh yes I know, I'm soaking in it now. Built me a about 50 plants in tout de suite and I'll be pleased as pie.

Than and open the coast to Oil & Nat. Gas exploration and I may go Democrat again in 2012.

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:31:56pm

re: #136 Rightwingconspirator

Kilgore, how sure are we these folks were not stockpiling before Obama, Tea Parties, back when Beck was just an oddity on CNN?

Some of them undoubtedly were. Much of this is not new. It does, however, tend to come out of hibernation in a Democrat's presidency.

180 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:32:13pm

re: #74 SeafoodGumbo

This is why I have my worries about what Obama might do:

Dept. of Energy

Biden called for bankrupting coal, too.

181 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:32:20pm

To people who have actually been paying attention over the last few years, Obama's announcement today isn't much of a surprise. It's been a long time since he's said much anti-nuclear power.

Moreover, on issue after issue (the wars, public option, gay rights) he's shown a willingness to disappoint the most liberal Dems. There's not a radical bone in this guy's body--he's deliberate, cautious and near the center on most issues. This reality doesn't fit stereotypes created on the right. So they continue ignoring reality.

182 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:32:27pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

Yep I can see those happening.

Your TP logic is good! :D

183 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:32:44pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

"You're crazy, mister. Nobody robs trains anymore."

(Produces pistol from under his jacket) "I'd say you've been misinformed."

"Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"

184 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:32:46pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

In no particular order of craziness from mildly rational to batshit barking at the moon, here are some that occur to me:

-These will be government-controlled plants! Government will control your energy! There will be an illegal government takeover of all energy providers!

-These are going to be unionized? Yeah right, they'll never be built, it's all a government plan to funnel billions into useless union jobs.

-We'll all glow in the dark! Think of the children!

-Obama could threaten to allow core meltdowns to control various areas of the country after martial law is declared.

Yeah, there may be some of that. But none of it has selling power. I do think it will be hard for the right to spin opposition to this unless it is conflated with other policies they have legitimate arguments for opposing. If that's all the right wing has, they will lose.

185 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:32:47pm

re: #175 WindUpBird

-Obama uses radioactive waste to give himself super-powers, becomes presidential Galactus, consumes Earth

so democrat voters are radioactive waste?....boy is that ever rude, I'm offended

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:32:59pm

re: #144 WindUpBird

There's already a convergence. Far left-wing paranoids and tea-partiers both love the 9/11 truth nonsense and the Art bell/George Norry X-Files stuff. it's just that one side wears Che Guevara underwear, smokes a lot of ditchweed and couchsurfs in between Phish shows, and the other side goes to monster truck rallies, shoots at junked washing machines with a hunting rifle for fun and cries whenever Darryl Worley's "Have You Forgotten" comes on the local country station.

I wonder if this has brought families together. Mom and Junior finally have something to agree on.

187 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:33:12pm

re: #136 Rightwingconspirator

Kilgore, how sure are we these folks were not stockpiling before Obama, Tea Parties, back when Beck was just an oddity on CNN?


Another good point. Alex Jones has been preaching to these freaks long before the election. Before that it was the Birch Society and militias that inspired Ruby Ridge, Waco Oklahoma City. Now Glenn Beck, the Tea Parties, Birch society and Oath Keepers have joined Alex Jones. The Tea Parties are signing on to the previous paranoid movements. Beck and the Tea Parties attract paranoid nuts because of the conspiracies they offer. There have always been paranoid anti-government freaks running around but they've never had their own major cable news outlet before. They'd never had large rallies and conventions to attend like they do now. The Tea Parties and people like Beck are creating more paranoid freaks. These conspiracies (death panels, socialist dictatorship, etc) have become mainstream and are even popular with Republican leadership. This is all very bad.

188 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:33:50pm

re: #160 jamesfirecat

Sounds sort of like blaming the Beatles for Charles Manson...

Another good example.

189 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:34:38pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

The wingnut / violence /radical factor is counter cyclical. It's just another pendulum of behavior. The Weather underground was left. The anti WTO rioters are left wing violent. Tim McVeigh right wing. The 2000 DNC was left wing violent. Now right wing again. Back and forth.

190 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:34:40pm

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Another good point. Alex Jones has been preaching to these freaks long before the election. Before that it was the Birch Society and militias that inspired Ruby Ridge, Waco Oklahoma City. Now Glenn Beck, the Tea Parties, Birch society and Oath Keepers have joined Alex Jones. The Tea Parties are signing on to the previous paranoid movements. Beck and the Tea Parties attract paranoid nuts because of the conspiracies they offer. There have always been paranoid anti-government freaks running around but they've never had their own major cable news outlet before. They'd never had large rallies and conventions to attend like they do now. The Tea Parties and people like Beck are creating more paranoid freaks. These conspiracies (death panels, socialist dictatorship, etc) have become mainstream and are even popular with Republican leadership. This is all very bad.

Yes, it is. The freaks are more numerous and more organized than they've ever been. The potential for disaster is quite high.

191 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:34:46pm

re: #181 palomino

To people who have actually been paying attention over the last few years, Obama's announcement today isn't much of a surprise. It's been a long time since he's said much anti-nuclear power.

Moreover, on issue after issue (the wars, public option, gay rights) he's shown a willingness to disappoint the most liberal Dems. There's not a radical bone in this guy's body--he's deliberate, cautious and near the center on most issues. This reality doesn't fit stereotypes created on the right. So they continue ignoring reality.

The only Dems and progressives who are disappointed are the ones who didn't bother to read his platform. The only Repubs and Conservatives who are surprised are the ones who didn't bother to read his platform.

The rest of us have been on the sidelines shrugging our shoulders.

192 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:34:52pm

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Another good point. Alex Jones has been preaching to these freaks long before the election. Before that it was the Birch Society and militias that inspired Ruby Ridge, Waco Oklahoma City. Now Glenn Beck, the Tea Parties, Birch society and Oath Keepers have joined Alex Jones. The Tea Parties are signing on to the previous paranoid movements. Beck and the Tea Parties attract paranoid nuts because of the conspiracies they offer. There have always been paranoid anti-government freaks running around but they've never had their own major cable news outlet before. They'd never had large rallies and conventions to attend like they do now. The Tea Parties and people like Beck are creating more paranoid freaks. These conspiracies (death panels, socialist dictatorship, etc) have become mainstream and are even popular with Republican leadership. This is all very bad.

since Watergate....a lot of people went nuts at that point, and frankly I can't blame them

193 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:34:56pm

pimf: that and...

194 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:35:14pm

re: #183 WindUpBird

"Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"

Next time I say we should go to Bolivia, let's GO TO BOLIVIA!

(Best I can rember it...)

195 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:35:15pm

re: #164 prairiefire

Hoosier, I like your big picture approach. Do you manage, like 500 people in real life? I can see you behind a lectern, inspiring the troops.

Thanks...I enjoy speaking in front of people...

196 laZardo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:35:18pm

re: #183 WindUpBird

"Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"

"Every problem in ze world can be solved with ze careful application of high explosives." - some Nazi

/godwin's law, check

197 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:35:21pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

The potential for disaster is quite high.


We've been very lucky so far.

198 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:36:01pm

re: #160 jamesfirecat

Sounds sort of like blaming the Beatles for Charles Manson...

I blame them for Paul McCartney's solo career.

199 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:36:17pm

re: #185 albusteve

so democrat voters are radioactive waste?...boy is that ever rude, I'm offended

I know I'm offended.

200 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:36:24pm

re: #177 iceweasel

Nor do her crimes-- any of them-- appear to have been predicated on anything political whatsoever. Personal grudges.

This last one is a workplace shooting, like any other. Unless she has left writings all over the place saying there's a seekrit Republican (??) conspiracy to control the tenure process, and she's decided to KILL ALL LIBS -- whoops-- it just isn't political.

Exactly. She's a criminal that happens to be a leftist. There is no evidence of her being involved with an radical groups anyway. The only thing I saw was that she is essentially a big Obama groupie and a self described socialist. She was not a member of anything like a "Weather Underground" and so on.

Of course I already saw the usual suspects who are trying to promote this angle: Dan Collins, Donald Douglas, Jim Hoft, and Dan Riehl. That says it all right there.

201 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:37:00pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

Yes, it is. The freaks are more numerous and more organized than they've ever been. The potential for disaster is quite high.

you'll be struck by lightening before there is armed revolt....or whatever disaster you are talking about

202 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:37:11pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

Yes, it is. The freaks are more numerous and more organized than they've ever been. The potential for disaster is quite high.

That's the down side of the internet....

203 prairiefire  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:37:32pm

One fact is we waste too much energy in this country by not having efficient methods of getting the energy to the source. The Smart Grid program is going to go address this.
With that, lights out for KC.

204 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:37:46pm

re: #176 Jimmah

Sure - but the nutcases on the left have always been called moonbats. Maybe we should have right wing moonbats too. They no one will know what the fuck anyone means by anything.

Heh, but moonbat has the connotation of having one's head in the clouds and being unrealistically idealistic. That fits the left extremists well. The right extreme, well, that just gets plain crazy.

205 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:37:49pm

re: #165 BryanS

Then you missed the post yesterday on LGF on the book with wingnuts in its title--used to refer to both sides.

Well I don't think he's paying heed to how wingnut has always been used and understood, within living memory at least.

206 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:37:57pm

re: #195 HoosierHoops

Thanks...I enjoy speaking in front of people...

no?....really?...had me fooled!
jus kidding

207 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:38:14pm

re: #196 laZardo

"Every problem in ze world can be solved with ze careful application of high explosives." - some Nazi

/godwin's law, check

Ya zis is ze quick fuse.... ZE QUICK FUSE!

208 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:38:28pm

re: #196 laZardo

"Every problem in ze world can be solved with ze careful application of high explosives." - some Nazi

/godwin's law, check

It's actually said by a German officer opposed to Hitler in Valkyrie. He says this as he describes the bomb materials to Oberst von Stauffenberg.

209 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:38:40pm

re: #200 Gus 802

Exactly. She's a criminal that happens to be a leftist. There is no evidence of her being involved with an radical groups anyway. The only thing I saw was that she is essentially a big Obama groupie and a self described socialist. She was not a member of anything like a "Weather Underground" and so on.

Of course I already saw the usual suspects who are trying to promote this angle: Dan Collins, Donald Douglas, Jim Hoft, and Dan Riehl. That says it all right there.

I'm not even sure she was a 'socialist'. Last I heard the 'evidence' for this was one anonymous comment on RateMyProfessors.

Given how few supposed adults appear to know the definition of 'socialist', I'm inclined to take a single anon comment on RateMyProfs with a bushel of salt.

210 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:39:30pm

re: #165 BryanS

Then you missed the post yesterday on LGF on the book with wingnuts in its title--used to refer to both sides.

I believe the only 'left' wingnut in the book is....Keith Olbermann.

211 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:39:36pm

re: #187 Killgore Trout

The anti Vietnam war movement had big rallies, good media coverage, mass support some violent adherents, militias.... Black Panthers. Weather Underground. And yes its all bad, really bad. Okay cable and the echo chamber did not exist yet. But still many parallels.

212 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:40:03pm

re: #201 albusteve

you'll be struck by lightening before there is armed revolt...or whatever disaster you are talking about

Full scale revolt is highly unlikely, but a major shooting incident is quite possible. And these folks tend to be much better with their weapons than gangbangers are.

213 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:40:34pm

re: #191 Jeff In Ohio

The only Dems and progressives who are disappointed are the ones who didn't bother to read his platform. The only Repubs and Conservatives who are surprised are the ones who didn't bother to read his platform.

Right, and both of those groups are large majorities. Really, how many Americans do you think read party platforms?

Soon the blogosphere will be afflicted with the vapors over these nuke plants: Dems will again talk about betrayal, and the right will mitigate anything they would otherwise support with talk of Kenya or Bill Ayers or some other non-issue BS.

214 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:40:36pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

Yes, it is. The freaks are more numerous and more organized than they've ever been. The potential for disaster is quite high.

I can meet yo halfway-we have seen this before.

215 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:40:37pm

re: #211 Rightwingconspirator

Ended pretty much with the end of the draft.

216 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:40:53pm

Tech note:

Both Hulu and ABC.lost are teh suck!

The picture was all stuttering and left me annoyed, not entertained.

My attempts to strip out the flash and convert it failed as well.

217 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:41:14pm

re: #215 Olsonist

Yeah, but it was sure "there" for years and years.

218 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:41:24pm

re: #212 Dark_Falcon

Full scale revolt is highly unlikely, but a major shooting incident is quite possible. And these folks tend to be much better with their weapons than gangbangers are.

We've already had that jackass (white supremacist?) who shot up the Holocaust Museum...

219 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:41:31pm

re: #181 palomino

To people who have actually been paying attention over the last few years, Obama's announcement today isn't much of a surprise. It's been a long time since he's said much anti-nuclear power.

Moreover, on issue after issue (the wars, public option, gay rights) he's shown a willingness to disappoint the most liberal Dems. There's not a radical bone in this guy's body--he's deliberate, cautious and near the center on most issues. This reality doesn't fit stereotypes created on the right. So they continue ignoring reality.

Would disagree about whether his preferred health care reform was radical. Though he did say if needed he would compromise on it, so I might call him a practical radical if that's the right term.

His problem was of leadership. Leaving it entirely to Pelosi to originate his key initiatives int he House--and she most definitely is an uncompromising hard core leftist radical--that was his biggest mistake.

220 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:41:41pm

Night folks :)

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:41:43pm

re: #189 Rightwingconspirator

The wingnut / violence /radical factor is counter cyclical. It's just another pendulum of behavior. The Weather underground was left. The anti WTO rioters are left wing violent. Tim McVeigh right wing. The 2000 DNC was left wing violent. Now right wing again. Back and forth.

True. But Tim McVeigh killed a lot of people. The 2000 DNC's body count was?

222 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:41:48pm

If you get a chance, watch the Penn & Teller link I posted earlier. I know they're biased, but they make great points about nuclear power, safety, Yucca Mountain, etc. At least Penn does. Teller doesn't say anything.

I'm off to bed soon.

223 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:41:49pm

re: #212 Dark_Falcon

Oklahoma City ring a bell?

224 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:42:26pm

re: #209 iceweasel

I'm not even sure she was a 'socialist'. Last I heard the 'evidence' for this was one anonymous comment on RateMyProfessors.

Given how few supposed adults appear to know the definition of 'socialist', I'm inclined to take a single anon comment on RateMyProfs with a bushel of salt.

When was that comment dated? Probably the day of the shooting.

225 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:43:16pm

re: #98 albusteve

Jesse James is long dead...it's just not an issue

Of course, how foolish of me. No one but Jesse James or his ilk could possibly want to hijack a train or any other system of transportation for their own personal ends. What was I thinking?

226 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:43:27pm

re: #219 BryanS

Hard core corporatist radical is the term you want to fling here.

227 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:43:43pm

re: #219 BryanS

Would disagree about whether his preferred health care reform was radical. Though he did say if needed he would compromise on it, so I might call him a practical radical if that's the right term.

His problem was of leadership. Leaving it entirely to Pelosi to originate his key initiatives int he House--and she most definitely is an uncompromising hard core leftist radical--that was his biggest mistake.

Yes, how dare the President expect the Congress to act as its own branch of government instead of just telling them what laws he wants them to vote on!

228 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:43:43pm

re: #197 Killgore Trout

We've been very lucky so far.

how so?...what are these stockpilers and revolutionaries gonna do exactly...who would they attack? and how can they do it?...I don't seem to get this conspiracy you are afraid of

229 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:44:00pm

re: #223 Olsonist

Oklahoma City ring a bell?

Yep.

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:44:03pm

re: #210 iceweasel

I believe the only 'left' wingnut in the book is...Keith Olbermann.

I assume he counts. I don't know. I've only seen the SNL version.

Of course, I was told on this forum that that was 'convenient'.

Hardly. I go to an enormous amount of trouble NOT to see these people.

231 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:44:25pm

re: #210 iceweasel

I believe the only 'left' wingnut in the book is...Keith Olbermann.

The shoe fits, no?

232 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:44:45pm

re: #1 euphgeek

Republican senators voting against nuclear power in 3...2...1...

Let's hope not. Even from a starkly partisan Republican perspective, the R's simply must support Obama full bore on this one.

A party can get away with opposing much of a president's program, arguing that that program does not serve the national interest. But the R's have no principled leg to stand on if they oppose O on this. R's are not the unthinking Greens. They have mocked Dem nimby's. There's nowhere to run and nowhere to hide: Obama, this time at least, is just plain right.

Get with the program, guys. It's time to make nice and cooperate.

233 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:45:07pm

re: #228 albusteve

how so?...what are these stockpilers and revolutionaries gonna do exactly...who would they attack? and how can they do it?...I don't seem to get this conspiracy you are afraid of

What's wrong with stockpiling guns? Did I miss something?

234 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:45:12pm

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

I assume he counts. I don't know. I've only seen the SNL version.

Of course, I was told on this forum that that was 'convenient'.

Hardly. I go to an enormous amount of trouble NOT to see these people.

I've seen him a few times. It was embarrassing.

235 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:45:20pm

re: #212 Dark_Falcon

Full scale revolt is highly unlikely, but a major shooting incident is quite possible. And these folks tend to be much better with their weapons than gangbangers are.

there has always been that threat...we are gun owners in this country...it's about probabilities, and how successful are these shooters gonna be?....who are they gonna shoot?

236 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:45:27pm

Oh. Band of Brothers is on.

Back in a bit.

237 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:46:16pm

re: #225 Slumbering Behemoth

Of course, how foolish of me. No one but Jesse James or his ilk could possibly want to hijack a train or any other system of transportation for their own personal ends. What was I thinking?

I'm not sure myself

238 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:46:26pm

re: #223 Olsonist

I should add that Timothy McVeigh acted absolutely alone (except for the Michigan Militia members who walk the streets today) and wasn't in the least influenced by anyone else (except the Turner Diaries and Right Wing hate radio at the time). Solo nutjob.

239 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:46:34pm

re: #218 jamesfirecat

We've already had that jackass (white supremacist?) who shot up the Holocaust Museum...

And Roeder. There'd been no abortion-related shootings before that since 1998. One attempted bombing in 2007 I think.

It's the usual suspects for a Democrat's term. I don't know what the hell calms these guys down so much about having a Republican in office.

240 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:46:44pm

re: #232 lostlakehiker

Let's hope not. Even from a starkly partisan Republican perspective, the R's simply must support Obama full bore on this one.

A party can get away with opposing much of a president's program, arguing that that program does not serve the national interest. But the R's have no principled leg to stand on if they oppose O on this. R's are not the unthinking Greens. They have mocked Dem nimby's. There's nowhere to run and nowhere to hide: Obama, this time at least, is just plain right.

Get with the program, guys. It's time to make nice and cooperate.

They voted against PayGo after being for that.... it can how surprising just how far Republicans will twist their spines if it lets them disagree with Obama....

But yes I do hope that they get with this, otherwise there will be NOTHING that Obama could possibly get them to work with him on....

241 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:47:20pm

re: #233 Bagua

Yes.

242 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:47:28pm

Gotta give Obama credit on this.
Time for more nuclear powered electrical generation.
France gets roughly 75% of its power from nukes, Japan about 35%.
[Link: www.world-nuclear.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

243 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:47:34pm

re: #240 jamesfirecat

They voted against PayGo after being for that... it can how surprising just how far Republicans will twist their spines if it lets them disagree with Obama...

But yes I do hope that they get with this, otherwise there will be NOTHING that Obama could possibly get them to work with him on...

unless we promise to drill for nukes!

244 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:47:50pm

re: #227 jamesfirecat

Yes, how dare the President expect the Congress to act as its own branch of government instead of just telling them what laws he wants them to vote on!

It's called leadership. Every president has used their position as a check on the legislative branch to clearly outline what they require to gain the presidential signature. There's nothing unconstitutional or extra constitutional about the president molding legislation.

245 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:47:59pm

re: #233 Bagua

What's wrong with stockpiling guns? Did I miss something?

Its wrong when you're stock piling illegal weapons like a grenade launcher...

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:48:15pm

re: #233 Bagua

What's wrong with stockpiling guns? Did I miss something?

Depends what you're stockpiling them for, really.

247 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:48:17pm

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

Yep.

yes, an army of one...or four or whatever it was

248 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:48:31pm

Hey Night Lizards!

You know, there was a Nuclear Power discussion this morning in the dead thread and I am no more prepared to discuss it tonite than I was this morning. This morning I was not yet infused with enough java, and tonite, there isn't enough java in the world . . .

How are you-all?

249 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:48:45pm

re: #224 Gus 802

When was that comment dated? Probably the day of the shooting.

No, it was older than that. Appears to be a genuine comment from a genuine student who said "She's great! and she's a socialist but she never talks about politics in class".

But I know for a fact from various academic friends that RateYourProf or whatever is wholly unmoderated. Someone who isn't even a student can totally trash your reputation by 'rating' you. A vindictive exstudent can (and will) post all kinds of shit about you for years.

A few profs have had to talk to the people who run it and now have essentially a lockdown on their ratings-- such that only someone posting from a verified (appropriate) uni address can comment and 'rate' them, and bad enough that in some cases they've had to actively 'police' the ratings for some prof because of one psycho. Happens a lot.

250 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:49:07pm

re: #239 SanFranciscoZionist

And Roeder. There'd been no abortion-related shootings before that since 1998. One attempted bombing in 2007 I think.

It's the usual suspects for a Democrat's term. I don't know what the hell calms these guys down so much about having a Republican in office.

I'm still waiting for the first act of Pro-Choice violence.

What is that gonna look like? Bombing an adoption center?

251 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:49:34pm

re: #233 Bagua

What's wrong with stockpiling guns? Did I miss something?

not sure what you missed...stockpile all you want

252 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:49:49pm

re: #250 jamesfirecat

I'm still waiting for the first act of Pro-Choice violence.

What is that gonna look like? Bombing an adoption center?

They would probably argue that the abortion itself is an act of violence.

253 laZardo  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:49:59pm

Brb, sanitizing myself and lunch.

254 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:50:06pm

re: #245 jamesfirecat

Its wrong when you're stock piling illegal weapons like a grenade launcher...

really?...thanks for that

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:50:14pm

re: #250 jamesfirecat

I'm still waiting for the first act of Pro-Choice violence.

What is that gonna look like? Bombing an adoption center?

More than ever, I wish Charles would give us that 'iiiiick' dinger.

Of course, there are many who would say that abortion itself is an act of violence.

256 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:50:36pm

re: #206 albusteve

no?...really?...had me fooled!
jus kidding

in order to graduate from a Nuclear apprenticeship For the DOD everyone had to give a speech about their experience in a giant auditorium for exactly 6 minutes..Not a second over or under..you got points taken off.. It was your problem to hit six minutes but everybody had a spotter..
Folks were talking about using tool to fix a sub.. How I became an Electronics Engineer..Blah blah frickking blah
I stepped up to the podium and started telling stories about Mechanics and Sailors after Pearl Harbor..Stories I looked up about American Hero's.. About bravery..Strength...Values..
The Navy in our darkest hour rose up to save liberty.. At 5 minutes there wasn't a dry eye in the house..
That's how you graduate...
That's why you work for the Navy

257 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:50:39pm

re: #243 EastSider

unless we promise to drill for nukes!

No, we don't want to disturb the CHUDS!

258 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:50:56pm

re: #252 EastSider

They would probably argue that the abortion itself is an act of violence.

I'm still waiting for the first illegal Pro-Choice act of violence.

What will that look like? Bombing an adoption center?

259 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:51:01pm

re: #228 albusteve

how so?...what are these stockpilers and revolutionaries gonna do exactly...who would they attack? and how can they do it?...I don't seem to get this conspiracy you are afraid of

Blowing up a federal building, assassinating a politician, murdering a government employee, ambushing police, etc. These are all possible with one or two lone nuts. A larger group could pull off a larger terrorist attack or create a stand off with law enforcement.

260 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:51:10pm

re: #245 jamesfirecat

Its wrong when you're stock piling illegal weapons like a grenade launcher...

Naturally, one needs a proper license. I mean the stockpiling of legal guns. That is as American as apple pie.

261 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:51:17pm

re: #244 BryanS

It's called leadership. Every president has used their position as a check on the legislative branch to clearly outline what they require to gain the presidential signature. There's nothing unconstitutional or extra constitutional about the president molding legislation.

he's supposed to imo

262 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:51:26pm

re: #248 ggt

Hey Night Lizards!

You know, there was a Nuclear Power discussion this morning in the dead thread and I am no more prepared to discuss it tonite than I was this morning. This morning I was not yet infused with enough java, and tonite, there isn't enough java in the world . . .

How are you-all?

I'm all right. Not feeling very well, so I may go to bed at midnight tonight. I might do so anyway, given that tomorrow is Ash Wednesday.

263 teleskiguy  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:51:28pm

We need to shoot the nuclear waste into outer space, maybe even on a trajectory towards the sun so it burns up forever.

264 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:51:35pm

re: #121 iceweasel

Anyway-- despite the wingnut howlings on the right, her politics had nothing to do with her crime(s). One messed up individual.

Killing family members or hated work colleagues is rarely a political act in any way. It's a personal crime motivated by rage, usually with very little planning at all. The part of her brain that "told" her to kill is completely separate from the part that told her to support single payer or vote for Obama.

265 jaunte  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:51:48pm

I hope the Intellectual Ventures folks take advantage of the President's initiative.

Unlike today’s reactors, a traveling-wave reactor requires very little enriched uranium, reducing the risk of weapons proliferation. The reactor uses depleted-uranium fuel packed inside hundreds of hexagonal pillars. In a “wave” that moves through the core at only a centimeter per year, this fuel is transformed (or bred) into plutonium, which then undergoes fission. The reaction requires a small amount of enriched uranium to get started and could run for decades without refueling.[Link: www.technologyreview.com...]
266 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:51:56pm

re: #260 Bagua

Naturally, one needs a proper license. I mean the stockpiling of legal guns. That is as American as apple pie.

Okay, just saying all good things in moderation.

267 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:52:26pm

re: #249 iceweasel

No, it was older than that. Appears to be a genuine comment from a genuine student who said "She's great! and she's a socialist but she never talks about politics in class".

But I know for a fact from various academic friends that RateYourProf or whatever is wholly unmoderated. Someone who isn't even a student can totally trash your reputation by 'rating' you. A vindictive exstudent can (and will) post all kinds of shit about you for years.

A few profs have had to talk to the people who run it and now have essentially a lockdown on their ratings-- such that only someone posting from a verified (appropriate) uni address can comment and 'rate' them, and bad enough that in some cases they've had to actively 'police' the ratings for some prof because of one psycho. Happens a lot.

OK it's an old entry. So she's a socialist. What's the big deal I say. Socialists are sometimes murderers. Think of serial killer and then finding out that he was a Communist. It would be absurd to think he was motivated to slash people to fulfill his personal political beliefs. The victims would have to be a target group. In the case of Bishop I'm sure she killed some "fellow travelers."

268 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:52:28pm

re: #258 jamesfirecat

I'm still waiting for the first illegal Pro-Choice act of violence.

What will that look like? Bombing an adoption center?

Yeah, I'm with you.

But the Pro-Lifers operate on a scary Boondock Saintsy "The Laws of God are Higher than the Laws of Man" kind of level.

269 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:52:35pm

re: #238 Olsonist

I should add that Timothy McVeigh acted absolutely alone (except for the Michigan Militia members who walk the streets today) and wasn't in the least influenced by anyone else (except the Turner Diaries and Right Wing hate radio at the time). Solo nutjob.

That isn't true. Terry Nichols helped him and was also convicted.

McVeigh was a lone wacko but he did have help and was connected with a (very) few others like him. IIRC even the militias didn't want anything to do with him, eventually.
Imagine what he could have done now, though, with the internet.

270 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:52:55pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

Depends what you're stockpiling them for, really.

Unless one has some sort of criminal intent it is a matter of personal choice.

271 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:53:00pm
“As long as producing carbon pollution carries no costs, plants that burn fossil fuel will be more cost effective than nuclear plants.”

Thats somewhat misleading. One major problem is that the Government throws so many hurdles in the way. Of course safety is the overriding priority and I am not advocating removing sensible safeguards in the construction and operation of nuclear plants, but how much of the stacks of specifications and years spent obtaining the permits approved really enhances safety and how much of it is just boiler plate gobbley gook and a gauntlet of red tape.

I applaud President Obama's initiative here, but I fear his grand plans will be derailed by his own Party. There is far too much fear and loathing of nuclear power from the Dems and I don't see those folks changing their tune just because Obama says so.

272 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:53:19pm

If you're into stockpiling guns, don't forget to stockpile some ammo.

273 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:53:31pm

re: #260 Bagua

Naturally, one needs a proper license. I mean the stockpiling of legal guns. That is as American as apple pie.

Yes it is. There's nothing wrong with buying legal weapons for legal purposes.

274 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:53:40pm

re: #263 teleskiguy

We need to shoot the nuclear waste into outer space, maybe even on a trajectory towards the sun so it burns up forever.

I'd be on board with that if you can give me a 100% failsafe rocket.

275 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:53:41pm

re: #259 Killgore Trout

Blowing up a federal building, assassinating a politician, murdering a government employee, ambushing police, etc. These are all possible with one or two lone nuts. A larger group could pull off a larger terrorist attack or create a stand off with law enforcement.

all that stuff has already happened Killgore...the country is still standing....I thought there was something bigger and more imaginative brewing

276 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:53:55pm

re: #268 EastSider

Yeah, I'm with you.

But the Pro-Lifers operate on a scary Boondock Saintsy "The Laws of God are Higher than the Laws of Man" kind of level.

Boondock Saints targeted people who kill actual people.

And we shall send a river forth to thee.....

277 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:53:57pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

I am not trying to draw that comparison...I shudder to think. But to be fair people did die in the '60's riots. The peril here is very real, I'm just saying dissent on this scale is not new. Forget "wings" a minute look at the anti draft NY riots circa civil war. Not pretty. I guess part of my point is short memories will not help. Another part is pointing partisan fingers will not help.

278 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:54:12pm

re: #272 stevemcg

If you're into stockpiling guns, don't forget to stockpile some ammo.

And if your stockpiling illegal weapons don't forget to stockpile on some bail money.

/

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:54:24pm

re: #268 EastSider

Yeah, I'm with you.

But the Pro-Lifers operate on a scary Boondock Saintsy "The Laws of God are Higher than the Laws of Man" kind of level.

OK, let's modify that. The CRAZY pro-lifers, the Roeders, the Eric Rudolphs, do that. Your average pro-lifer does not.

280 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:54:35pm

re: #261 albusteve

he's supposed to imo

Rumor is that he and Pelosi haven't been getting along much lately. Maybe he's trying to reign her in and getting pushback from her. If he doesn't reign her in, it will take her ouster to give him the ability to push back on the hard left of his party.

All in all, divided power works better. Republican congress with a Democrat in the white house lead to a very partisan, but not all that bad policy outcome during the 90s.

281 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:54:54pm

re: #276 jamesfirecat

Boondock Saints targeted people who kill actual people.

And we shall send a river forth to thee...

well yeah, the problem with the laws of god is that they're all interpreted through men. Unless you've actually spoken to god yourself.

282 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:55:24pm

re: #260 Bagua

Naturally, one needs a proper license. I mean the stockpiling of legal guns. That is as American as apple pie.

and in fact is probably the most deciding factor that prevents the type of radical move against the govt people seem to be worried about

283 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:55:26pm

re: #263 teleskiguy

We need to shoot the nuclear waste into outer space, maybe even on a trajectory towards the sun so it burns up forever.

Would be a great idea--only thing would be what to do when a delivery vehicle fails. That could be really bad as well.

284 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:55:40pm

re: #269 iceweasel

Yeah, I forgot about Nichols. I was thinking about Michael and Lori Fortier.

285 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:55:45pm

re: #272 stevemcg

If you're into stockpiling guns, don't forget to stockpile some ammo.

Quite Concur.

286 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:55:45pm

re: #278 Gus 802

And if your stockpiling illegal weapons don't forget to stockpile on some bail money.

/

Buy Gold!
///

287 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:56:07pm

re: #272 stevemcg

If you're into stockpiling guns, don't forget to stockpile some ammo.

Agreed. Assuming 'some' is a big number.

I tend to load up on skeet loads when I see a good sale.

288 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:56:18pm

re: #278 Gus 802

LOL!

289 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:56:20pm

re: #286 iceweasel

Buy Gold!
///

Ha! Call Goldline™ now!

290 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:56:29pm

re: #283 BryanS

Would be a great idea--only thing would be what to do when a delivery vehicle fails. That could be really bad as well.

You in case it in rubber, so it just bounces around.

291 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:56:29pm

re: #286 iceweasel

Buy Gold!
///

///And sheep!

Because if someone steels your woman they can serve as a backup!

292 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:56:37pm

The cutest little Scottie won BOB at Westminster!

This gal came in 4th in group judging, but Bob, she's georgeous. Something about a German Shepherd Dog.

293 jaunte  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:56:42pm

re: #286 iceweasel

Buy Gold!
///

But first, buy some land to bury it in!

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:56:50pm

re: #270 Bagua

Unless one has some sort of criminal intent it is a matter of personal choice.

Like I said. It's a question of what you're stockpiling them for.

295 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:57:04pm

re: #278 Gus 802

And if your stockpiling illegal weapons don't forget to stockpile on some bail money.

/

a LOT....like an infinite amt

296 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:57:29pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, let's modify that. The CRAZY pro-lifers, the Roeders, the Eric Rudolphs, do that. Your average pro-lifer does not.

the problem in that is the active verb "do." I wouldn't be surprised if lots of "average" pro-lifers think something like "good on ya" towards Roeder. While only a very small % (Say one nut out of every 1,000,000 pro lifers) will actually "do" something crazy, a larger percentage are "okay" with it.

The issue w/ percentages like that, of course, is that there are probably at least 50M pro-lifers in the US right now.

297 solomonpanting  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:57:32pm
The White House is making no bones about the fact that they see this announcement as advancing two agenda items: clean energy and efforts at bipartisanship.

Yes. God forbid that our elective ones would actually do something solely on the basis that it be good for the country on its own merits.

298 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:57:36pm

re: #282 albusteve

and in fact is probably the most deciding factor that prevents the type of radical move against the govt people seem to be worried about

True, the folks I know who stockpile guns are among the most law abiding people I know. They stay out of trouble for the most part.

299 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:57:56pm

re: #284 Olsonist

Yeah, I forgot about Nichols. I was thinking about Michael and Lori Fortier.

That's right-- I'd forgotten about them! :)
They turned state's evidence, right? McVeigh didn't act alone.

300 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:58:03pm

re: #295 albusteve

a LOT...like an infinite amt

Yeah. Would depend on the weapon I would think. Illegal rifles vs. a rocket launcher.

301 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:58:37pm

re: #286 iceweasel

Buy Gold!
///

already did, a long time back....it's more quadrupled in value....sweet

302 teleskiguy  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:58:42pm

re: #274 EastSider

re: #283 BryanS

Well, hate to use a cliche, but we've got to break a few eggs to make an omelet. Let's make a rocket that works at a 99.999% level, and shoot the nuclear waste into space where it can't hurt us.

303 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:58:58pm

re: #262 Dark_Falcon

I'm all right. Not feeling very well, so I may go to bed at midnight tonight. I might do so anyway, given that tomorrow is Ash Wednesday.

It is? Who knew? Yes, I'm one of those Catholics.:)

feel better, drink some gatorade before you go to bed.

304 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:59:19pm

re: #287 Bagua
Good point. Serious sport shooters do stockpile and its legit.
My reloading machine does up to 1100 rounds an hour. But a good practice weekend for competition pistol shooters is 500 rounds fired in a day or two. Thats a thousand for the wife and I for one big weekend. Its all about context. In proper storage we have had thousands of rounds. But by the end of summer, almost none.

305 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:59:26pm

re: #272 stevemcg

If you're into stockpiling guns, don't forget to stockpile some ammo.

As Chris Rock said: "the US could solve a lot of problems by making bullets cost $5,000 each. This would single handedly eliminate the "innocent bystander." Just think about the next murder scene. The cops will be saying "DAMN! They must have hated this guy, they put $100K worth of bullets in him"

306 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:59:27pm

re: #301 albusteve

already did, a long time back...it's more quadrupled in value...sweet

Still in the dirt though...

307 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:59:34pm

Nuclear power + Electric plug in vehicles = less cash for the oil ticks + collapse of the Iranian Mullahcracy.

Its not just energy policy, its a National Security issue.

308 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:59:41pm

re: #237 albusteve

Point is that this shit is more secure sitting put than it is in transit. Too many variables are involved with transport.

I want to see this technology (nuclear energy) move forward. It's not gonna happen if we say "no" to everything related to it. I am not saying "no" to moving forward, nor am I saying "no" to Yucca Mountain storage.

All I am saying is that transportation comes with heightened risks, and that I want assurances that these risks are well addressed beyond the throw away "Don't worry kid, it couldn't happen".

I would like to see transportation of such materials militarized to the point that a humming bird could not get within a mile of it, at any point, without being vaporized. Too much to ask?

309 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:59:58pm

re: #271 mich-again

Thats somewhat misleading. One major problem is that the Government throws so many hurdles in the way. Of course safety is the overriding priority and I am not advocating removing sensible safeguards in the construction and operation of nuclear plants, but how much of the stacks of specifications and years spent obtaining the permits approved really enhances safety and how much of it is just boiler plate gobbley gook and a gauntlet of red tape.

I applaud President Obama's initiative here, but I fear his grand plans will be derailed by his own Party. There is far too much fear and loathing of nuclear power from the Dems and I don't see those folks changing their tune just because Obama says so.

The Republicans must step into the breach and provide Obama however many votes he needs to make up for Dem defectors.

310 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:00:07pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

Depends what you're stockpiling them for, really.

Zombie apocalypse ... duh.

311 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:00:10pm

re: #299 iceweasel

Michael Smerconish once had an author who wrote a book detailing that eyewitnesses recognized Iraqi spies working with McVeigh, then later he had this woman on a broadcast from Arlen Spector's office. Poor Arlen.

312 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:00:37pm

re: #275 albusteve

all that stuff has already happened Killgore...the country is still standing...I thought there was something bigger and more imaginative brewing

The country will continue on just fine but the political fallout will be much more serious. Imagine if Tim Mcvey got his ideas from Rush Limbaugh or the Branhc Dividians were local organizers for the Republican party. If a major terrorist attack comes out of the Tea Parties it's going to be very tough on the Republicans. Just imagine if the Twin Towers were blown up by conservative activists because Beck said they were part of the New World Order. It's not going to look good.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:00:40pm

re: #275 albusteve

all that stuff has already happened Killgore...the country is still standing...I thought there was something bigger and more imaginative brewing

Sorry to disappoint. Boy, I guess we're being big ole' sillies, aren't we? No point getting all worked up about something happening that the country has survived before. Hell, we survived the Great Depression! Let's not give the economy another thought! It'll all come out in the wash.

//Lordamercy.

314 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:00:52pm

re: #306 Bagua

Still in the dirt though...

that's the hard part...I haven't figured that out yet...duh?

315 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:00:55pm

re: #299 iceweasel

They shouldn't let someone turn states evidence when168 people died. Shouldn't.

316 Opal  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:01:05pm

re: #218 jamesfirecat

""re: #212 Dark_Falcon

Full scale revolt is highly unlikely, but a major shooting incident is quite possible. And these folks tend to be much better with their weapons than gangbangers are.

We've already had that jackass (white supremacist?) who shot up the Holocaust Museum...""

Don' forget Jim Adkisson who shot up the UU church in Tennesse killing 2 and wounding 7. He wrote this crazy anti-liberal manifesto:

[Link: web.knoxnews.com...]

317 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:01:28pm

re: #272 stevemcg

If you're into stockpiling guns, don't forget to stockpile some ammo.

Now that scares me, unless you have an off-site or somewhat fire-safe place to store the ammo. I know, intellectually, there is relatively little danger, but still . . . .

318 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:01:44pm

re: #310 goddamnedfrank

Zombie apocalypse ... duh.

What up Frank?

319 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:02:58pm

re: #219 BryanS

Would disagree about whether his preferred health care reform was radical. Though he did say if needed he would compromise on it, so I might call him a practical radical if that's the right term.

His problem was of leadership. Leaving it entirely to Pelosi to originate his key initiatives int he House--and she most definitely is an uncompromising hard core leftist radical--that was his biggest mistake.

I agree about the Pelosi gambit. He overcompensated for Clinton's mistake back in 93, when Bill and Hillary basically wrote the entire bill and told Congress they weren't needed.

Yes, it's a left of center piece of legislation, but hardly radical. Once the single payer and public option were removed, just what was really radical about it? It's just big in scope. The bill may be terrible for myriad reasons, but not because it's communist.

320 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:03:12pm

re: #300 Gus 802

Yeah. Would depend on the weapon I would think. Illegal rifles vs. a rocket launcher.

I have a permit for that!

(Sorry for the bad quality)

321 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:03:16pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, let's modify that. The CRAZY pro-lifers, the Roeders, the Eric Rudolphs, do that. Your average pro-lifer does not.

Thanks for that clarification. Pro-Life is one of those manufactured jargonny terms that drives me crazy.

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:03:29pm

re: #277 Rightwingconspirator

I am not trying to draw that comparison...I shudder to think. But to be fair people did die in the '60's riots. The peril here is very real, I'm just saying dissent on this scale is not new. Forget "wings" a minute look at the anti draft NY riots circa civil war. Not pretty. I guess part of my point is short memories will not help. Another part is pointing partisan fingers will not help.

Sure, that's true. And I'm not worried that these folks are going to bring down the country any time soon.

Mostly, I just dislike them intensely. They are everything I hate about the fringe left, plus they're right-wingers. These people were INVENTED to punch my buttons.

323 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:03:31pm

re: #307 mich-again

Nuclear power + Electric plug in vehicles = less cash for the oil ticks + collapse of the Iranian Mullahcracy.

Its not just energy policy, its a National Security issue.

I agree with your logic just not your conclusion. Iran isn't our problem. Saudi Arabia is our problem. The hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. OBL came from Saudi Arabia. The funding comes from Saudi Arabia.

324 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:04:16pm

re: #296 EastSider

the problem in that is the active verb "do." I wouldn't be surprised if lots of "average" pro-lifers think something like "good on ya" towards Roeder. While only a very small % (Say one nut out of every 1,000,000 pro lifers) will actually "do" something crazy, a larger percentage are "okay" with it.

The issue w/ percentages like that, of course, is that there are probably at least 50M pro-lifers in the US right now.

I updinged you, but I always maintain here that the 'pro-life' label is misleading.

Genuine 'pro-life' people want all the same things the prochoice people want, (or should): keep abortion safe, legal, and rare, make birth control, education, emergency contraception, and adoption available-- and care for women not only when they're pregnant, and children not only while in utero, but afterwards. A world in which people only have children because they want to, and every child has a family that wants and loves him (or her).

These are all areas in which all pro-choice people, and most pro-life people, agree. The labels keep us from consolidating all the positions where we agree and working together on the policies we all agree on.

The Army of God, Operation Rescue, and assorted wingnuts who would deny abortion even to incest and rape victims don't care about women, still less about children, and are invested in controlling women's sexual and reproductive lives. Those assholes need to be marginalised and stopped.
And they don't deserve the label of 'pro-life', either. They're anti-choice, anti-women, anti-sex, and theocrats.

325 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:04:29pm

re: #308 Slumbering Behemoth

Point is that this shit is more secure sitting put than it is in transit. Too many variables are involved with transport.

I want to see this technology (nuclear energy) move forward. It's not gonna happen if we say "no" to everything related to it. I am not saying "no" to moving forward, nor am I saying "no" to Yucca Mountain storage.

All I am saying is that transportation comes with heightened risks, and that I want assurances that these risks are well addressed beyond the throw away "Don't worry kid, it couldn't happen".

I would like to see transportation of such materials militarized to the point that a humming bird could not get within a mile of it, at any point, without being vaporized. Too much to ask?


of course not, that's the point...and that's what makes it impossible....who's gonna go through a battalion of Marines to stop a train?...and if they did, then what?

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:04:33pm

re: #281 EastSider

well yeah, the problem with the laws of god is that they're all interpreted through men. Unless you've actually spoken to god yourself.

"Anyone in recorded history says that God has spoken to them, they're speaking to me. Or, they're talking to themselves."

327 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:04:38pm

re: #287 Bagua

Agreed. Assuming 'some' is a big number.

I tend to load up on skeet loads when I see a good sale.

And tell your wife, what a great deal you got, you had to buy 10?

I hear it too! Somehow that doesn't work when I buy shoes . . .

328 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:04:41pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

Tim McVeigh did get his ideas from reactionary righties. Just not radio stars. In context we had real suspicion (later proven unfounded) about the Branch Davidian fire origins, and an FBI sniper that took the 5th after taking a life in the course of his duty. All that was very mainstream media high profile. Fortunately nothing like that has happened on Obamas watch.

329 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:04:58pm

re: #315 Olsonist

They shouldn't let someone turn states evidence when168 people died. Shouldn't.

They should let someone do it if its the only way that we're going to get anyone legally punished for it....

330 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:05:44pm

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

Like I said. It's a question of what you're stockpiling them for.

Most likely to blow it at the range because ammo is so expensive now, that when you find a good price, you have to buy in bulk.

Or so I hear from someone I live with.

:)

331 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:05:45pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry to disappoint. Boy, I guess we're being big ole' sillies, aren't we? No point getting all worked up about something happening that the country has survived before. Hell, we survived the Great Depression! Let's not give the economy another thought! It'll all come out in the wash.

//Lordamercy.

so what's your point?

332 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:05:50pm

re: #296 EastSider

The issue w/ percentages like that, of course, is that there are probably at least 50M pro-lifers in the US right now.

I think that is a low number actually. I also think lot of people who identify as pro-life are not the type who are compelled to force their view on others even though they are personally opposed to abortion. Of course you don't hear much from them, but they are out there.

333 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:05:50pm

re: #323 Olsonist

I agree with your logic just not your conclusion. Iran isn't our problem. Saudi Arabia is our problem. The hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. OBL came from Saudi Arabia. The funding comes from Saudi Arabia.

Iran is so a problem. Hillary Clinton is right about their drifting into a military-corruptial-complex State, with the "Republican Guards" calling the shots. A nuclear armed nation, and they will be if nothing happens to stop it, of that character, is a big problem.

334 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:06:04pm

re: #324 iceweasel

I updinged you, but I always maintain here that the 'pro-life' label is misleading.

Genuine 'pro-life' people want all the same things the prochoice people want, (or should): keep abortion safe, legal, and rare, make birth control, education, emergency contraception, and adoption available-- and care for women not only when they're pregnant, and children not only while in utero, but afterwards. A world in which people only have children because they want to, and every child has a family that wants and loves him (or her).

These are all areas in which all pro-choice people, and most pro-life people, agree. The labels keep us from consolidating all the positions where we agree and working together on the policies we all agree on.

The Army of God, Operation Rescue, and assorted wingnuts who would deny abortion even to incest and rape victims don't care about women, still less about children, and are invested in controlling women's sexual and reproductive lives. Those assholes need to be marginalised and stopped.
And they don't deserve the label of 'pro-life', either. They're anti-choice, anti-women, anti-sex, and theocrats.

Agree all. great points.

As we've seen many times on LGF, sweeping labels for big groups of people is often misleading and leads to negative misconceptions and a failure to engage on issues.

335 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:06:34pm

re: #323 Olsonist

I agree with your logic just not your conclusion. Iran isn't our problem. Saudi Arabia is our problem. The hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. OBL came from Saudi Arabia. The funding comes from Saudi Arabia.

We've got you over a barrel, of imported Saudi Crude!
When you fill your tanks, we all give thanks, god bless the USA!

336 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:06:53pm

re: #298 Bagua

True, the folks I know who stockpile guns are among the most law abiding people I know. They stay out of trouble for the most part.

I feel that way too sometimes, but then I remember that somehow this adversarial system we have works better than anything else.

337 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:07:14pm

re: #328 Rightwingconspirator

Yes, but at the time there was no direct link between the extremists and the Republican establishment. An act of terrorism out of the Tea Parties is going to reflect directly on the Republicans. There's going to be no way to deny the association.

338 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:07:20pm

re: #329 jamesfirecat

They should let someone do it if its the only way that we're going to get anyone legally punished for it...

It is a bit hazy, but they caught McVeigh. They had video tape. 168 people.

339 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:07:58pm

re: #332 mich-again

I think that is a low number actually. I also think lot of people who identify as pro-life are not the type who are compelled to force their view on others even though they are personally opposed to abortion. Of course you don't hear much from them, but they are out there.

I agree.

Its the return of the "silent majority."

Unfortunately, the last few years have shown that this country can be held hostage by a vocal minority.

340 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:08:28pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm with you there. 100% I have a special dislike for the violent offender. Nothing serious happened in my immediate neighborhood, but keeping an armed fire watch during the Rodney King riots was both necessary and damn unpleasant. We had a guy on the roof and on the ground watching a nearby strip mall. Fire was a real threat for a day or so.

341 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:09:07pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

The country will continue on just fine but the political fallout will be much more serious. Imagine if Tim Mcvey got his ideas from Rush Limbaugh or the Branhc Dividians were local organizers for the Republican party. If a major terrorist attack comes out of the Tea Parties it's going to be very tough on the Republicans. Just imagine if the Twin Towers were blown up by conservative activists because Beck said they were part of the New World Order. It's not going to look good.

There was some consiracy theory that McVey was a jihadi tool or something, I think I remember.

Does that make sense?

342 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:09:25pm

re: #337 Killgore Trout

Yes, but at the time there was no direct link between the extremists and the Republican establishment. An act of terrorism out of the Tea Parties is going to reflect directly on the Republicans. There's going to be no way to deny the association.

IF there is any such act. That's a big if. Heated talk of "rights" cannot be equated to a determination to blow up federal buildings. And don't we have any rights? Is all such talk just rubbish?

343 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:09:41pm

re: #333 lostlakehiker

Iran is so a problem. Hillary Clinton is right about their drifting into a military-corruptial-complex State, with the "Republican Guards" calling the shots. A nuclear armed nation, and they will be if nothing happens to stop it, of that character, is a big problem.

As opposed the the crazy already nuclear nation of North Korea?

What is Iran gonna do that North Korea can't?

344 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:09:57pm

re: #328 Rightwingconspirator

Tim McVeigh did get his ideas from reactionary righties. Just not radio stars. In context we had real suspicion (later proven unfounded) about the Branch Davidian fire origins, and an FBI sniper that took the 5th after taking a life in the course of his duty. All that was very mainstream media high profile. Fortunately nothing like that has happened on Obamas watch.

See The Turner Diaries.

Of course someone like Jonah Goldberg would say that William Luther Pierce was a leftist. Andrew Breitbart would compare McVeigh to "what they're teaching in lesbian studies."

345 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:10:19pm

re: #310 goddamnedfrank

Zombie apocalypse ... duh.

See, that's a good reason to stockpile guns.

346 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:10:22pm

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

Like I said. It's a question of what you're stockpiling them for.

Contingencies.

347 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:10:44pm

re: #318 HoosierHoops

What up Frank?

I hate Ayn Rand!

348 blindy  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:11:16pm
“By announcing plans today to break ground on the first new nuclear reactors in nearly three decades, the President is making good on his offer to meet Republicans halfway.”

The official said that pro-nuke Republicans now need to return the favor.

Hah! What kind of favors do they have to do in return for a few megawatts of nuclear power?

349 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:11:21pm

re: #345 SanFranciscoZionist

See, that's a good reason to stockpile guns.

Yeah but you need silver bullets. Better off stockpiling on wooden stakes, garlic, and mirrors.

/

350 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:11:50pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure, that's true. And I'm not worried that these folks are going to bring down the country any time soon.

Mostly, I just dislike them intensely. They are everything I hate about the fringe left, plus they're right-wingers. These people were INVENTED to punch my buttons.

The point of an armed citizenry is deterrance. No one is going to try to take the country, they know they can't. "A rifle behind every blade of grass" IIRC.

Of all the people I know with lots of guns, most don't get fired once a year, if that.

Bob, my brain is not working well tonite.

351 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:12:16pm

re: #343 jamesfirecat

As opposed the the crazy already nuclear nation of North Korea?

What is Iran gonna do that North Korea can't?

Iran has oil and they sit astride a key shipping route for oil. That gives Iran for economic clout than the Norks.

352 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:12:26pm

re: #319 palomino

I agree about the Pelosi gambit. He overcompensated for Clinton's mistake back in 93, when Bill and Hillary basically wrote the entire bill and told Congress they weren't needed.

Yes, it's a left of center piece of legislation, but hardly radical. Once the single payer and public option were removed, just what was really radical about it? It's just big in scope. The bill may be terrible for myriad reasons, but not because it's communist.

What Obama preferred--single payer, then government option--that is radical. I think he understood that would never happen, so I know he would have accepted a compromise for something less than that. Pelosi did pass a public option--with some very radical provisions that stripped money from states who had put in place caps on medical malpractice awards. The Pelosi bill also put in place an 8% payrol tax (less than health care costs) a company would pay in lieu of paying a government mandated 75% of health care costs. Tthat provision would have caused anyone making less than say $100,000 to be at risk of losing their employer plans--employers would have dumped every lower income to middle income American on the government plan because it would become a competitive disadvantage to provide private coverage. That is VERY radical.

353 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:12:45pm

re: #334 EastSider

Agree all. great points.

As we've seen many times on LGF, sweeping labels for big groups of people is often misleading and leads to negative misconceptions and a failure to engage on issues.

Well, the 'pro-life' vs 'pro-choice' label is extremely damaging to the discourse imo, and it isn't only on LGF.

There is such a huge overlap of issues that both sides genuinely care about and could work together on, and the polemics obscure and inhibit that. It angers me.

354 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:12:50pm

re: #337 Killgore Trout

Yes, but at the time there was no direct link between the extremists and the Republican establishment. An act of terrorism out of the Tea Parties is going to reflect directly on the Republicans. There's going to be no way to deny the association.

and then?...it's the end of the GOP?...you have manufactured a problem in your head...it's not something anybody can do much about til a crime is committed...all your alarmism is pointless...you are running around in circles when you may as well sit back and see how it shakes out...sometimes I think you want to see some incident to bolster your fears and predictions...sound familiar?

355 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:12:51pm

re: #317 ggt

Now that scares me, unless you have an off-site or somewhat fire-safe place to store the ammo. I know, intellectually, there is relatively little danger, but still . . . .

Woman who had my old apartment ahead of me was a hoarder--bad enough that the landlady finally evicted her, which is not all that easy to do in San Francisco. But her stuff was a fire hazard.

The moving men were moving her out, when one of them tried to pick up a duffel bag and failed.

"What you got in this thing?" he asked. "Gold bars?"

"Bullets," she said.

Sure enough. The entire damn duffel bag was stuffed with ammo. All my poor landlady could think of was the whole overpacked place catching fire, and then the rounds starting to cook off.

356 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:13:10pm

re: #324 iceweasel

I updinged you, but I always maintain here that the 'pro-life' label is misleading.

Genuine 'pro-life' people want all the same things the prochoice people want, (or should): keep abortion safe, legal, and rare, make birth control, education, emergency contraception, and adoption available-- and care for women not only when they're pregnant, and children not only while in utero, but afterwards. A world in which people only have children because they want to, and every child has a family that wants and loves him (or her).

These are all areas in which all pro-choice people, and most pro-life people, agree. The labels keep us from consolidating all the positions where we agree and working together on the policies we all agree on.

The Army of God, Operation Rescue, and assorted wingnuts who would deny abortion even to incest and rape victims don't care about women, still less about children, and are invested in controlling women's sexual and reproductive lives. Those assholes need to be marginalised and stopped.
And they don't deserve the label of 'pro-life', either. They're anti-choice, anti-women, anti-sex, and theocrats.

Pro-Life is a political term invented to counteract the Pro-Choice meme. Who isn't Pro-life?

357 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:13:14pm

re: #338 Olsonist

It is a bit hazy, but they caught McVeigh. They had video tape. 168 people.

Not saying it was right in that case, but that it might be right in some cases even when 168 people die....

358 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:13:27pm

re: #337 Killgore Trout

Yes, but at the time there was no direct link between the extremists and the Republican establishment. An act of terrorism out of the Tea Parties is going to reflect directly on the Republicans. There's going to be no way to deny the association.

A special message for select GOP leaders, Radio talk show hosts, and ex-half term governors:

"The wind is sowed by the men who preach such doctrines, and they cannot escape their responsibility for the whirlwind that is reaped. . . If ever anarchy is triumphant, its triumph will last for but one red moment, to be succeeded for ages by the gloomy night of despotism"

-TR

359 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:13:34pm

re: #345 SanFranciscoZionist

See, that's a good reason to stockpile guns.

One needs not a reason to stockpile guns, it is a hobby, like collecting stamps.

360 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:14:07pm

re: #333 lostlakehiker

Iran is so a problem. Hillary Clinton is right about their drifting into a military-corruptial-complex State, with the "Republican Guards" calling the shots. A nuclear armed nation, and they will be if nothing happens to stop it, of that character, is a big problem.

Pakistan has nukes. Iran has a nuclear program because we started it under the Shah.

361 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:14:36pm

re: #351 Dark_Falcon

Iran has oil and they sit astride a key shipping route for oil. That gives Iran for economic clout than the Norks.

So this is about oil? I thought it was about security. My bad.

362 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:14:45pm

re: #323 Olsonist

I agree with your logic just not your conclusion. Iran isn't our problem.

I disagree with that. Iran has been fighting a low level war against us for decades by supporting terrorists and "insurgents". The Mullahs are more kleptocrats than theocrats, having divvied up Iran's state economy to provide them with cash that they spread around to wage their own unofficial wars.

363 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:16:00pm

re: #347 jamesfirecat

I hate Ayn Rand!

I'm giving him his due..He insulted me the other night..
won't be the first...

364 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:16:02pm

re: #353 iceweasel

Well, the 'pro-life' vs 'pro-choice' label is extremely damaging to the discourse imo, and it isn't only on LGF.

There is such a huge overlap of issues that both sides genuinely care about and could work together on, and the polemics obscure and inhibit that. It angers me.

right. how about "anti teen pregnancy" Can someone run on that platform?

365 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:16:10pm

re: #356 ggt

Pro-Life is a political term invented to counteract the Pro-Choice meme. Who isn't Pro-life?

Pro-Life is a stupid label. The majority of folks in the US are pro-choice-- they may have reservations about abortion, but they don't want that choice outlawed for others.

The 'pro-life' movement contains some (few) people who are objectively pro-death-- bombing clinics, killing doctors.

Those people need to be shunned.

366 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:16:16pm

re: #331 albusteve

so what's your point?

There's a fine line between worrying too much and worrying just enough. I have erased this line.

367 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:16:54pm

re: #361 Olsonist

So this is about oil? I thought it was about security. My bad.

Oil is vital to our security. Without it, we can't run our security apparatus.

368 jaunte  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:16:59pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm going to steal that.

369 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:17:04pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a fine line between worrying too much and worrying just enough. I have erased this line.

Don't Worry, be Happy!

370 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:17:16pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a fine line between worrying too much and worrying just enough. I have erased this line.

well that explains it

371 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:17:40pm

re: #359 Bagua

One needs not a reason to stockpile guns, it is a hobby, like collecting stamps.

It's a hobby that rightfully demands a touch more responsibility than stamp collecting. Once you allow zombies to own firearms you're fucked.

372 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:17:42pm

re: #364 EastSider

right. how about "anti teen pregnancy" Can someone run on that platform?

Well, not Palin!

/ wouldn't put it past her, though. Cf. 'retarded' when Rahm uses it in a closed meeting to describe the behaviour of some liberals, vs when Rush uses it.

373 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:18:17pm

re: #362 mich-again

I disagree with that. Iran has been fighting a low level war against us for decades by supporting terrorists and "insurgents". The Mullahs are more kleptocrats than theocrats, having divvied up Iran's state economy to provide them with cash that they spread around to wage their own unofficial wars.

And we've been fighting a low level war with them. We've been supporting the Kurdish rebels. Worse, we supported Iraq (yeah, Saddam) during the Iran Iraq war.

374 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:18:20pm

re: #359 Bagua

One needs not a reason to stockpile guns, it is a hobby, like collecting stamps.

I hear via the Daily Show that they also make a better investment than the stock market!

375 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:18:23pm

re: #343 jamesfirecat

As opposed the the crazy already nuclear nation of North Korea?

What is Iran gonna do that North Korea can't?

And NK isn't a problem? But to answer your question, NK isn't sitting astride any oil shipping lanes, NK doesn't have any theological reason to attack Israel. NK is far poorer than Iran.

376 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:18:44pm

re: #363 HoosierHoops

I'm giving him his due..He insulted me the other night..
won't be the first...

he did? What happened? I like frank.

377 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:18:45pm

re: #361 Olsonist

So this is about oil? I thought it was about security. My bad.


The oil supply is without question a national security issue. Like it or not it is the lifeblood of our economy. Heck, its the lifeblood of the global economy.

378 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:19:29pm

re: #371 goddamnedfrank

It's a hobby that rightfully demands a touch more responsibility than stamp collecting. Once you allow zombies to own firearms you're fucked.

Agree absolutely. In several states there are very clear responsibility for such things as securing access, concealed carry, transportation by vehicle, shipping or airplane.

379 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:19:34pm

re: #341 ggt

There was some consiracy theory that McVey was a jihadi tool or something, I think I remember.

Does that make sense?

Richard Clark refers in Against All Enemies to a report/rumor that apparently floated around that Nichols might have made contact with jihadis in the Philippines, when visiting a girlfriend/wife/can't remember's family out on Cebu or someplace.

Apparently, they couldn't disprove it, but it never got more concrete than that. It sounded to me more as though they thought he might have gotten tips and moral support from someone than that anyone on that end was pulling the strings.

Anyone know anything else?

380 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:19:45pm

re: #367 Dark_Falcon

Oil is vital to our security. Without it, we can't run our security apparatus.

it's simply a balance....some of us believe in American exceptionalism, some don't....if Iran is not our problem, then by that logic neither are the Somali pirates or FARC, or any number of troubles world wide

381 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:19:55pm

re: #377 mich-again

Life or death above the freeze line!

382 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:19:57pm

re: #363 HoosierHoops

I'm giving him his due..He insulted me the other night..
won't be the first...

Sorry I thought "Frank" meant "Francis" and you were making an L4D joke....

383 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:20:48pm

re: #374 jamesfirecat

I hear via the Daily Show that they also make a better investment than the stock market!

Not really, though there is some appreciation for collectors items, mostly they maintain a value below retail dependent on the condition, and go down from there.

384 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:21:30pm

re: #315 Olsonist

They shouldn't let someone turn states evidence when168 people died. Shouldn't.

Agreed. I don't remember now why that happened. i assume it was to build the strongest possible case, but I have to admit I was kinda busy with, uh, other things in my life...

385 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:21:32pm

re: #365 iceweasel

Pro-Life is a stupid label. The majority of folks in the US are pro-choice-- they may have reservations about abortion, but they don't want that choice outlawed for others.

The 'pro-life' movement contains some (few) people who are objectively pro-death-- bombing clinics, killing doctors.

Those people need to be shunned.

I wish I could remember the name of the guy--I learned about him thru an interview with Deborah Tannen (I listened to some podcast--that I can't remember either). Anyway, she went thru the history of "pro-life". In essence, it is meaningless--no reason to use it or debate it.

Darnnit! Wish I could remember enough to google a link. The Spindoctor guy was a Republican player--famous for his spindoctor ways.

386 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:21:52pm

re: #342 lostlakehiker

IF there is any such act. That's a big if. Heated talk of "rights" cannot be equated to a determination to blow up federal buildings. And don't we have any rights? Is all such talk just rubbish?

Of course we have rights. We even have the rights to yak about having our rights taken away, and to 'stockpile' weapons because we're so afraid about having our rights taken away.

But certain folks, they do set off the creep-o-meter, and merit a second or third slow look, and just because they've got the Constitution in hand doesn't mean they're on the side of the angels.

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:22:14pm

re: #343 jamesfirecat

As opposed the the crazy already nuclear nation of North Korea?

What is Iran gonna do that North Korea can't?

Let's not find out!

388 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:22:26pm

re: #383 Bagua

Not really, though there is some appreciation for collectors items, mostly they maintain a value below retail dependent on the condition, and go down from there.

Really? Guess the bottom has dropped out of the market to a great degree now that its turned out Obama isn't going to take people's guns away.....

389 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:22:33pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a fine line between worrying too much and worrying just enough. I have erased this line.

Don't worry . . .

390 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:22:50pm

re: #378 Bagua

Try traveling from state to state or even nation to nation to compete in a major firearms match. Talk about a minefield of regulations!

391 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:23:12pm

Tech note:

If you go to the trouble of downloading a torrent file for the lost Lost episode you stupidly missed, and you find yourself sat there for ages agonizing over the slow download... take a moment to confirm you're not actually downloading the entire Season 5 instead of the one episode your missed.

392 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:23:19pm

re: #390 Rightwingconspirator

Try traveling from state to state or even nation to nation to compete in a major firearms match. Talk about a minefield of regulations!

I'm kind of glad that's hard to do?

393 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:23:48pm

re: #376 iceweasel

he did? What happened? I like frank.

I'm not sure..It seemed like an obscure insult after one of my light hearted Jesus jokes.. I figured I didn't go for GoddamnHoosierHoops nic so maybe GoddamnedFrank wanted to throw down... I figured he wanted a religious cage match where 2 Gods enter but only one emerges...
*wink*
/New York!

394 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:24:04pm

re: #369 Bagua

Don't Worry, be Happy!

In every life there comes some trouble,
If you worry, you make it double.

395 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:24:07pm

re: #388 jamesfirecat

Seriously the crap economy drives that. The worries about the dollar etc. It was not so much about Obama as the "coming collapse".

396 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:24:10pm

re: #386 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course we have rights. We even have the rights to yak about having our rights taken away, and to 'stockpile' weapons because we're so afraid about having our rights taken away.

But certain folks, they do set off the creep-o-meter, and merit a second or third slow look, and just because they've got the Constitution in hand doesn't mean they're on the side of the angels.

you need to shoot more often...it's fun...bigger stuff is just bigger fun...and anyway the politicians in DC set off my creep-o-meter....bwahahaha!

397 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:24:34pm

re: #392 EastSider

I'm kind of glad that's hard to do?


Wondering why. Its not like a criminal who intends to use the weapon illegally is going to worry about permits or applications.

398 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:24:43pm

re: #388 jamesfirecat

Really? Guess the bottom has dropped out of the market to a great degree now that its turned out Obama isn't going to take people's guns away...

Other than collectibles, as I say, it is not an investment one expects appreciation from.

Are you interested in collecting firearms?

399 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:25:04pm

re: #386 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course we have rights. We even have the rights to yak about having our rights taken away, and to 'stockpile' weapons because we're so afraid about having our rights taken away.

But certain folks, they do set off the creep-o-meter, and merit a second or third slow look, and just because they've got the Constitution in hand doesn't mean they're on the side of the angels.

Or that sometimes the "elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor."

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:25:16pm

re: #350 ggt

The point of an armed citizenry is deterrance. No one is going to try to take the country, they know they can't. "A rifle behind every blade of grass" IIRC.

Of all the people I know with lots of guns, most don't get fired once a year, if that.

Bob, my brain is not working well tonite.

Uh, I'm not opposed to an armed citizenry. My father is an ex-cop and military history buff, I grew up in a house with a somewhat silly number of guns, considering.

That's not what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about political circumstances whipping up the crazy.

401 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:25:42pm

re: #379 SanFranciscoZionist

Richard Clark refers in Against All Enemies to a report/rumor that apparently floated around that Nichols might have made contact with jihadis in the Philippines, when visiting a girlfriend/wife/can't remember's family out on Cebu or someplace.

Apparently, they couldn't disprove it, but it never got more concrete than that. It sounded to me more as though they thought he might have gotten tips and moral support from someone than that anyone on that end was pulling the strings.

Anyone know anything else?

There was a website, I found once--but as I think everyone knows by now, I need to get off-line and get some sleep.

I can't remember anything about it.

402 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:25:48pm

re: #398 Bagua

Other than collectibles, as I say, it is not an investment one expects appreciation from.

Are you interested in collecting firearms?

Not at the moment not yet at the stage of my life when I've figured out my retirement plan and I've already got DVDs and books for my collection of stuff I collect needlessly....

403 webevintage  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:25:56pm

re: #372 iceweasel

Well, not Palin!

/ wouldn't put it past her, though. Cf. 'retarded' when Rahm uses it in a closed meeting to describe the behaviour of some liberals, vs when Rush uses it.

Jebus what a fucking hypocrite and a stupid one too.
Seth MacFarlane set a trap for her with her BS and she walked right into it...except she used Bristol to deliver the message.
That woman...bah, my disdain for her knows no bounds.

404 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:26:20pm

re: #390 Rightwingconspirator

Try traveling from state to state or even nation to nation to compete in a major firearms match. Talk about a minefield of regulations!

Absolutely, I've done the state to state and nation to nation thing a few times, though never for a match. It is amazing how many tricky little laws are involved.

405 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:26:45pm

re: #397 mich-again

Wondering why. Its not like a criminal who intends to use the weapon illegally is going to worry about permits or applications.

well yeah, but it certainly adds a hurdle or two. Otherwise any person could just walk into our country (through airports) with guns.

Smuggling, while not impossible, is typically harder than just walking into a country with perfectly legal goods.

406 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:27:11pm

re: #367 Dark_Falcon

Oil is vital to our security. Without it, we can't run our security apparatus.

We buy oil. From Venezuela. We use oil from Iran. It's economics. It's kind of embarrassing when the Chinese understand this stuff and we don't.

407 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:27:26pm

re: #392 EastSider

I'm kind of glad that's hard to do?

Except that criminals don't follow laws --those that do aren't the danger.

408 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:27:41pm

re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh, I'm not opposed to an armed citizenry. My father is an ex-cop and military history buff, I grew up in a house with a somewhat silly number of guns, considering.

That's not what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about political circumstances whipping up the crazy.

me too...but I see no reason to post tens of thousands of words about it and continuously groan about something you can do nothing about...it gets ridiculous after a while...we know we know

409 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:28:04pm

re: #407 ggt

Except that criminals don't follow laws --those that do aren't the danger.

see my 405

410 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:28:44pm

re: #396 albusteve

Hah. Screw collecting guns go for enjoying them at the range. Combat Pistol is both the most original American martial art and it is the most contemporary.

411 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:28:45pm

re: #402 jamesfirecat

Not at the moment not yet at the stage of my life when I've figured out my retirement plan and I've already got DVDs and books for my collection of stuff I collect needlessly...

At your age you would be wise to learn how to accumulate money and protect it, rather than distribute it. The system is currently rigged to put you on the credit drip, it is a tap that takes decades to recover from, if ever.

412 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:29:08pm

re: #393 HoosierHoops

I'm not sure..It seemed like an obscure insult after one of my light hearted Jesus jokes.. I figured I didn't go for GoddamnHoosierHoops nic so maybe GoddamnedFrank wanted to throw down... I figured he wanted a religious cage match where 2 Gods enter but only one emerges...
*wink*
/New York!

He seems pretty cool, Hoops. Dunno what happened.
{hoops}

PS thanks for adding lazardo, he was very happy about that I think.

413 wee fury  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:29:30pm

[Link: www.tsa.gov...] with Special Items
Firearms & Ammunition

414 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:30:19pm

re: #404 Bagua

I never did outside of the US. But I do work the Steel Challenge so I talk to guys that fly in from all over the world. The Japanese team keeps its guns in a nearby gun friendly country, they practice with air pistols in country.

415 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:30:21pm

re: #410 Rightwingconspirator

Hah. Screw collecting guns go for enjoying them at the range. Combat Pistol is both the most original American martial art and it is the most contemporary.

you should see the stuff out at ABQ City Range....kowabunga dude!...and yes there are pistoleros aplenty

416 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:30:21pm

re: #411 Bagua

At your age you would be wise to learn how to accumulate money and protect it, rather than distribute it. The system is currently rigged to put you on the credit drip, it is a tap that takes decades to recover from, if ever.

Well the good news is that I so far I'm sticking to checks rather than credit cards and Racer X was kind enough to give me some very nice advice on what I could do with my money....

417 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:30:44pm

re: #405 EastSider

well yeah, but it certainly adds a hurdle or two. Otherwise any person could just walk into our country (through airports) with guns.

Smuggling, while not impossible, is typically harder than just walking into a country with perfectly legal goods.

Oh, those ambassadors and their families with diplomatic immunity can do just that. Every elected official automatically get's a free, do not pass go, right to concealed carry. Add to that the criminalsd who don't give a wit about the law. . .

Seems the only one's who are controlled are the law-abiding citizen.

418 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:30:47pm

re: #388 jamesfirecat

Really? Guess the bottom has dropped out of the market to a great degree now that its turned out Obama isn't going to take people's guns away...

I'm pretty sure people are still waiting for that. It's too much fun to worry about to just give it up like that.

Maybe he's waiting for his illegal second term when he refuses to cede power to President Palin.

/

419 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:31:09pm

re: #411 Bagua

At your age you would be wise to learn how to accumulate money and protect it, rather than distribute it. The system is currently rigged to put you on the credit drip, it is a tap that takes decades to recover from, if ever.

kash is king

420 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:31:35pm

re: #379 SanFranciscoZionist

Jayna Davis wrote a book where she gets eyewitness testimony that proves Sadaam Hussein was behind the Oklahoma City bombing.

421 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:31:36pm

re: #406 Olsonist

We buy oil. From Venezuela. We use oil from Iran. It's economics. It's kind of embarrassing when the Chinese understand this stuff and we don't.

They're using their keen understanding of economics recently by dumping our bonds--I'm guessing in response to our planned arms sales to Taiwan.

I think we should return the favor and look the other way--wink wink--while South Korea develops their own Nuclear Bomb to counter North Korea. And of course, Japan will need thewir own weapon as well to balance out the Koreas. While we're at it, maybe the Taiwanese could use some nuclear deterrent as well.

/not actually in favor of it. just thinking China's game playing by pitting NK and Iran against us in a game of international nuclear tiddlywinks should be thrown back in their faces.

422 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:31:38pm

re: #352 BryanS

When Obama realized how controversial the public option would be, he willingly let it go. Deep down he's pretty pragmatic, pissing off both the left who want a fight and the right who want to portray him as too risky to be dealt with.

The term radical gets thrown around too much, IMO. A lot of things that were once seen as radical are now pretty commonplace. Anyone who's ahead of the curve could be called radical, but in the political context it's used to frighten people into thinking the other party is dangerous.

Ironically, if we continue the way we've been headed, then single payer may NOT seem so radical in 10 years or so. HC costs keep skyrocketing while per capita GDP grows slowly if at all--a recipe for govt. intervention.

423 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:31:52pm

re: #396 albusteve

you need to shoot more often...it's fun...bigger stuff is just bigger fun...and anyway the politicians in DC set off my creep-o-meter...bwahahaha!

Actually, I've been talking to some people about starting up the school's shooting club again.

424 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:32:07pm

re: #413 wee fury

[Link: www.tsa.gov...] with Special Items
Firearms & Ammunition

No big deal. Show up at the airport with the firearm in a locked case. Declare it to the check in desk and give them the key or code. At your destination it comes out the shoot with the rest of the luggage.

425 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:32:32pm

re: #406 Olsonist

We buy oil. From Venezuela. We use oil from Iran. It's economics. It's kind of embarrassing when the Chinese understand this stuff and we don't.

Are you sure the US imports oil from Iran? I'd like to see a link supporting that claim.

426 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:32:40pm

re: #403 webevintage

Jebus what a fucking hypocrite and a stupid one too.
Seth MacFarlane set a trap for her with her BS and she walked right into it...except she used Bristol to deliver the message.
That woman...bah, my disdain for her knows no bounds.

Well, the Palins do have a point about the word 'retarded' but it was undercut entirely when Sarah Palin refused to confront Rush Limbaugh. It was a transparent double standard set for partisan reasons.

427 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:32:42pm

Night all!

Have a good one!

428 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:33:31pm

re: #423 SanFranciscoZionist

Actually, I've been talking to some people about starting up the school's shooting club again.

that would be interesting...keep us posted

429 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:33:55pm

re: #415 albusteve

I am no champion, but we got to train with the best, like Mike Dalton and some real world speed shooters. We organized the very first California IDPA championships. We have so much fun in high speed pistol. Heh, if any Lizard wants to learn or practice the real sporting high speed pistol deal just click my nic. I got great range connections.

430 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:34:07pm

re: #418 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm pretty sure people are still waiting for that. It's too much fun to worry about to just give it up like that.

Maybe he's waiting for his illegal second term when he refuses to cede power to President Palin.

/

The NRA website itself was pushing lies about Obama "taking away our guns!" as recently as last month. Haven't checked recently.

431 wee fury  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:34:11pm

re: #413 wee fury

[Link: www.tsa.gov...] with Special Items
Firearms & Ammunition

Broken link. Sorry.
#424 Bagua -- Yes. That is right.

432 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:34:20pm

re: #412 iceweasel

He seems pretty cool, Hoops. Dunno what happened.
{hoops}

PS thanks for adding lazardo, he was very happy about that I think.

Love that dude.. We are giving top billing on the prayer list for his family this week...
The Lizards will be praying for his pops this Sunday Morning..

433 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:34:40pm

re: #421 BryanS

Excellent analysis. Sometimes I think I'm alone around here in thinking that China is our big problem and Iran is a right wing feel bad sideshow. It's not like Iran doesn't have serious beefs with us and still their kids want to go to school here.

China. We're getting owned by China.

434 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:34:42pm

This is too funny.

Sarah Palin responds to a cartoon -- Family Guy.

And a cartoon, Joe "The Plumber", says he can't support Sarah Palin if she supports John McCain.

435 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:34:47pm

re: #416 jamesfirecat

Well the good news is that I so far I'm sticking to checks rather than credit cards and Racer X was kind enough to give me some very nice advice on what I could do with my money...

Excellent. Here you have an opportunity to learn a great deal from other peoples mistakes and experience.

436 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:34:49pm

re: #423 SanFranciscoZionist

Actually, I've been talking to some people about starting up the school's shooting club again.

What happens if the school has adopted a no tolerance gun policy?

437 webevintage  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:35:18pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Well, the Palins do have a point about the word 'retarded' but it was undercut entirely when Sarah Palin refused to confront Rush Limbaugh. It was a transparent double standard set for partisan reasons.

Absolutely.
I've said the word retarded more times in the last few weeks then I have in the last 20 years.

438 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:35:44pm

re: #420 stevemcg

Jayna Davis wrote a book where she gets eyewitness testimony that proves Sadaam Hussein was behind the Oklahoma City bombing.

Uh.

439 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:36:12pm

re: #417 ggt

Oh, those ambassadors and their families with diplomatic immunity can do just that. Every elected official automatically get's a free, do not pass go, right to concealed carry. Add to that the criminalsd who don't give a wit about the law. . .

Seems the only one's who are controlled are the law-abiding citizen.

that is a fairly defeatist attitude. I don't have the stats on hand, but I'm assuming that quite a few criminals are arrested annually for illegal gun possession.

440 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:36:12pm

re: #423 SanFranciscoZionist

Actually, I've been talking to some people about starting up the school's shooting club again.

I don't know... from what you've said about some of those girls I may think twice.

441 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:37:34pm

re: #403 webevintage

She's happily engaging in a media spat...with a cartoonist.

You don't think this makes her look presidential?

442 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:37:36pm

re: #425 mich-again

I said use. Iran sells to China and China sells us cheap shit we can't seem to live without. So our consumption is using Iranian oil. I believe that some oil is trans-shipped to the US because it is a global market. Business is business. But no, I can't prove that.

443 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:38:14pm

re: #425 mich-again

Are you sure the US imports oil from Iran? I'd like to see a link supporting that claim.

Brief search suggests that U.S. refiners can't buy it, due to sanctions. Of course, they sell extensively to Asia, so in the great Web of Economic Interconnectedness, I suppose we make use of it.

444 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:38:14pm

re: #441 palomino

She's happily engaging in a media spat...with a cartoonist.

You don't think this makes her look presidential?

She comes with her own captions. They're on the palm of her hand.

//

445 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:39:25pm

re: #430 iceweasel

The NRA website itself was pushing lies about Obama "taking away our guns!" as recently as last month. Haven't checked recently.

their magazine is groovy tho...otherwise I'd like to hear BOs point of view on ownership, CandC etc...and maybe something about Illinois laws and how effective they are...that would be interesting

446 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:39:27pm

re: #430 iceweasel

A friend sent me a gun link from Daily Kos. I kid you not. The NRA is far from the only gun org. my money goes to the 2nd Amendment Foundation. Not NRA/ILA Anyway the linked guy had=s impeccable credentials the NSSF is a range based organization and very public minded. They retail gun sports to the public.

447 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:39:40pm

re: #442 Olsonist

I said use. Iran sells to China and China sells us cheap shit we can't seem to live without. So our consumption is using Iranian oil. I believe that some oil is trans-shipped to the US because it is a global market. Business is business. But no, I can't prove that.

No doubt there is a direct impact on the Oil markets in which all players are influenced by the others net imports and exports. Iran is no exception to this at this point in time.

448 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:40:11pm

The best (and by that I mean craziest) CT about the OKC bombing was that it was an inside job by the government to destroy all the records in the BATF office regarding the Waco raid. That ties it all up in a bow. I remember hearing a guy explain it all in detail thinking, wow, there should be some kind of Oscar or Pulitzer award for the craziest CT.

449 wee fury  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:40:15pm

re: #433 Olsonist
Japan edges China as top US Treasury holder
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2010-02-17 11:41

450 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:40:34pm

re: #437 webevintage

Absolutely.
I've said the word retarded more times in the last few weeks then I have in the last 20 years.

here's a cookie....good for you

451 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:40:50pm

Interesting. We're having this lovers spat with Iran because we fear their shutting down the oil supply but we won't buy oil from them. Hmm.. I don't usually quote from Reason. Don't tell anyone, it might destroy my liberal credentials.

452 webevintage  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:40:51pm

re: #441 palomino

She's happily engaging in a media spat...with a cartoonist.

She really is easy pickings.
Bait, hook and reel her in...

MacFarlane's response?
"From its inception, 'Family Guy' has used biting satire as the foundation of its humor."

453 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:41:34pm

re: #448 mich-again

The best (and by that I mean craziest) CT about the OKC bombing was that it was an inside job by the government to destroy all the records in the BATF office regarding the Waco raid. That ties it all up in a bow. I remember hearing a guy explain it all in detail thinking, wow, there should be some kind of Oscar or Pulitzer award for the craziest CT.

We can call it the Straitjacket Award. THe winner gets an all-expenses paid stay in a mental hospital to get teh crazee taken out of him.

454 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:41:37pm

re: #422 palomino

When Obama realized how controversial the public option would be, he willingly let it go. Deep down he's pretty pragmatic, pissing off both the left who want a fight and the right who want to portray him as too risky to be dealt with.

The term radical gets thrown around too much, IMO. A lot of things that were once seen as radical are now pretty commonplace. Anyone who's ahead of the curve could be called radical, but in the political context it's used to frighten people into thinking the other party is dangerous.

Ironically, if we continue the way we've been headed, then single payer may NOT seem so radical in 10 years or so. HC costs keep skyrocketing while per capita GDP grows slowly if at all--a recipe for govt. intervention.

Agreed that Obama can be practical. He is cursed with the worst Speaker of the House to grace that seat. That isn't all his fault--not sure how you sidestep a Speaker.

It's a recipe for government intervention only if true market based reform is not given a chance. As an individual, I can buy an HSA insurance plan for about $60/mo with a max $2500 annual deductible. If instead of comprehensive insurance plans, individuals made spending decisions on their own health care, using insurance for catastrophes and unaffordable emergencies, market forces would drive down the cost of routine care. Just look at anything not included on all-inclusive plans today. Whether it be corrective laser eye surgery or any cosmetic procedure, costs continue to go down.

Does anyone here buy comprehensive car insurance? If so, I hope you enjoy paying twice as much as it would cost to maintain your own vehicle. Same principle here. Insurance should be a separate product from health care. You never save money using insurance to pay for an ongoing service. Never. Oh, and tort reform would be nice to. That, and allowing insurance companies to compete for business across state lines.

455 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:41:50pm

re: #436 stevemcg

What happens if the school has adopted a no tolerance gun policy?

Oh, we have one. We'd need to meet off campus. There's a shooting range some of the students use nearby.

This is, of course, a change from the 60s, when Father Joseph set up his own shooting range in the basement, with some old mattresses propped up against the wall.

456 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:43:01pm

She wanted a booster seat.

That Amy is one troubled woman.

457 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:43:33pm

re: #442 Olsonist

I said use. Iran sells to China and China sells us cheap shit we can't seem to live without. So our consumption is using Iranian oil.

I can hear the beeping from the reverse gear being engaged. By that standard we use everything made anywhere consumed by anyone.

458 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:43:45pm

re: #451 Olsonist

Interesting. We're having this lovers spat with Iran because we fear their shutting down the oil supply but we won't buy oil from them. Hmm.. I don't usually quote from Reason. Don't tell anyone, it might destroy my liberal credentials.

personally I don't give a shit about their oil...the fact that they murder their own citizens and want to erase Israel off the map seems a bit more pressing...if I were CnC I flatten their one refinery tomorrow at the latest just to get them to blink

459 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:44:00pm

re: #453 Dark_Falcon

Oh, and tort reform would be nice to.

Tort reform would be a disaster. Consider the damage fdrom medical mistakes, and take away the accountability.

460 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:44:21pm

re: #443 SanFranciscoZionist

Brief search suggests that U.S. refiners can't buy it, due to sanctions. Of course, they sell extensively to Asia, so in the great Web of Economic Interconnectedness, I suppose we make use of it.

Iranian oil goes to Japan, China and India in major quantities, and then South Korea, Italy, Spain, France, South Africa, Netherlands and Greece mostly.

If the spigot was shut off, those countries would need supply from the open market to compensate.

461 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:44:41pm

re: #433 Olsonist

Excellent analysis. Sometimes I think I'm alone around here in thinking that China is our big problem and Iran is a right wing feel bad sideshow. It's not like Iran doesn't have serious beefs with us and still their kids want to go to school here.

China. We're getting owned by China.

There would have been sanctions by now against Iran if now for China. Even Russia has grown leery of using Iran to bludgeon the US. Sanctions work when they are enforced and honored by everyone.

462 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:44:49pm

re: #456 Silvergirl

She wanted a booster seat.

That Amy is one troubled woman.

So, basically, the surprising part is that she waited this long to go on a killing spree? Wow.

463 Lidane  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:44:59pm

re: #441 palomino

She's happily engaging in a media spat...with a cartoonist.

You don't think this makes her look presidential?

Why not? She's already been in a public pissing contest with the teenage douchebag who fathered her grandchild. What's another public feud?

464 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:45:37pm

re: #457 mich-again

The point may be made that if we cut Iran out of the world's oil market, its customers will start competing with us to buy oil from the remaining suppliers. That wouldn't be fun.

465 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:45:53pm

re: #463 Lidane

Why not? She's already been in a public pissing contest with the teenage douchebag who fathered her grandchild. What's another public feud?

I can kind of understand the need to crush Levi.

466 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:46:13pm

re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist

I can kind of understand the need to crush Levi.

the jeans look better that way.

467 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:46:16pm

re: #443 SanFranciscoZionist

Brief search suggests that U.S. refiners can't buy it, due to sanctions. Of course, they sell extensively to Asia, so in the great Web of Economic Interconnectedness, I suppose we make use of it.

Oil is fungible--except maybe for that high sulfur crap from Venezuela.

468 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:46:21pm

re: #444 Gus 802

She comes with her own captions. They're on the palm of her hand.

//

HA!

Sarah's other hand discovered:
Image: hand1.jpg

h/t Jimmah-cakes.

BRB.

469 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:46:38pm

re: #456 Silvergirl

She wanted a booster seat.

That Amy is one troubled woman.

Weird. Sometimes I think people like this have killed before and no one will ever know. I mean besides her brother.

470 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:47:03pm

re: #459 stevemcg

Wrong poster. I didn't say the thing you attributed to me.

471 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:47:06pm

re: #393 HoosierHoops

I'm not sure..It seemed like an obscure insult after one of my light hearted Jesus jokes.. I figured I didn't go for GoddamnHoosierHoops nic so maybe GoddamnedFrank wanted to throw down... I figured he wanted a religious cage match where 2 Gods enter but only one emerges...
*wink*
/New York!

Aw, I was just riffing on Jesus, and how the one you invite may not be the one that shows up. I'm goddamnedfrank goddamnit, that's what I do. No offense intended, for now.

472 webevintage  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:47:21pm

re: #454 BryanS

Oh, and tort reform would be nice to. That, and allowing insurance companies to compete for business across state lines.

God yes, please give conservatives their tort reform and competing across state lines.
As long as it comes with insurance for folks even with pre-existing conditions, being able to keep you kids keep on your insurance until they are 26, have funded comprehensive community clinics like they have in Vermont and some type of option of a public option.

473 mich-again  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:47:37pm

re: #464 stevemcg

The point may be made that if we cut Iran out of the world's oil market, its customers will start competing with us to buy oil from the remaining suppliers. That wouldn't be fun.

That might even prompt us to drill our own oil!

474 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:48:36pm

re: #461 BryanS

There would have been sanctions by now against Iran if now for China. Even Russia has grown leery of using Iran to bludgeon the US. Sanctions work when they are enforced and honored by everyone.

Until W's axis of evil speech we were on track to normalizing relations with Iran. Trying. I'm expected Iran to be the subject of the next Two Minute Hate. This sounds too much like the trumped up WMDs in Iraq.

Or we could just buy their oil and leave them alone. It is a thought.

475 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:48:51pm

re: #470 Dark_Falcon

Oops.. I was just trying to avoid as big block quote to highlight one point. That was 454.

476 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:48:54pm

re: #451 Olsonist

Interesting. We're having this lovers spat with Iran because we fear their shutting down the oil supply but we won't buy oil from them. Hmm.. I don't usually quote from Reason. Don't tell anyone, it might destroy my liberal credentials.

Only flaw in that analysis is that if we replace oil with something else, then that is a game changer. It is correct that 'drill here, drill now' crap is all hot air. Won't make a lick of difference in the price of oil. May help the trade imbalance a bit, but that's it.

477 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:49:07pm

re: #471 goddamnedfrank

You are really frank.

478 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:49:50pm

re: #468 iceweasel

HA!

Sarah's other hand discovered:
[Link: i238.photobucket.com...]

h/t Jimmah-cakes.

BRB.

It's all McCain's fault.

/

479 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:49:51pm

re: #462 SanFranciscoZionist

So, basically, the surprising part is that she waited this long to go on a killing spree? Wow.

I would say so. All these years holding it at the boiling point before her lid blew off was her form of anger management.

480 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:49:53pm

re: #473 mich-again

That might even prompt us to drill our own oil!

oh noez!...seriously it would be a good thing

481 Kruk  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:50:33pm

re: #462 SanFranciscoZionist

So, basically, the surprising part is that she waited this long to go on a killing spree? Wow.

Yep, her record so far:

-Killed her brother with a shot gun (never booked or charged)
-Questioned about a pipe bomb (sent to a Professor who gave her a bad grade)
- Punches a woman who wouldn't give her a car seat
-Shoots up a department which denied her tenure

I would say she doesn't handle being denied what she wants very well.

482 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:50:44pm

re: #452 webevintage

She really is easy pickings.
Bait, hook and reel her in...

MacFarlane's response?
"From its inception, 'Family Guy' has used biting satire as the foundation of its humor."

Oh, but that's different because, uh uh, let me check my hand.

I watched part of her interview with O'Reilly. She referred several times to Obama's Special Olympics comment, which she claims was disrespectful to the "Special Olympiads". She doesn't even know the difference between a period of 4 years and a competitor at the Olympics. Lost in all of this is the fact that Palin really is fucking retarded. (It's OK for me to say that because I'm just satrizing her.)

Watch the Colbert clip from last week on use of the r-word. Real satire, real brilliance.

483 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:50:46pm

re: #473 mich-again

I think our oil will be worth more to our kids than it will be to us. We gotta save something for them.

484 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:51:02pm

re: #473 mich-again

That might even prompt us to drill our own oil!

Or maybe we could become more efficient.

Anybody remember where the hijackers came from? Anyone? Starts with an S.

485 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:51:05pm

re: #481 Kruk

Yep, her record so far:

-Killed her brother with a shot gun (never booked or charged)
-Questioned about a pipe bomb (sent to a Professor who gave her a bad grade)
- Punches a woman who wouldn't give her a car seat
-Shoots up a department which denied her tenure

I would say she doesn't handle being denied what she wants very well.

Socialist!

/

486 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:51:39pm

re: #459 stevemcg

Oh, and tort reform would be nice to.

Tort reform would be a disaster. Consider the damage fdrom medical mistakes, and take away the accountability.

No--real damages, damages for pain and suffering are typically allowed. States that have enacted reforms limit the punitive damages only.

487 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:51:51pm

re: #481 Kruk

Yep, her record so far:

-Killed her brother with a shot gun (never booked or charged)
-Questioned about a pipe bomb (sent to a Professor who gave her a bad grade)
- Punches a woman who wouldn't give her a car seat
-Shoots up a department which denied her tenure

I would say she doesn't handle being denied what she wants very well.

Seriously though. She also tried to car jack after she shot her brother. Allegedly.

488 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:51:52pm

re: #485 Gus 802

Socialist!

/

Librhul eelitist expecting entitlements!//

489 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:51:57pm

re: #483 stevemcg

I think our oil will be worth more to our kids than it will be to us. We gotta save something for them.

elektrik kars!....what's the holdup?

490 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:52:00pm

re: #481 Kruk

Yep, her record so far:

-Killed her brother with a shot gun (never booked or charged)
-Questioned about a pipe bomb (sent to a Professor who gave her a bad grade)
- Punches a woman who wouldn't give her a car seat
-Shoots up a department which denied her tenure

I would say she doesn't handle being denied what she wants very well.

Booster seat. Booster seat at an IHOP. Get your facts straight before I knock your block off!

491 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:52:14pm

re: #451 Olsonist

Interesting. We're having this lovers spat with Iran because we fear their shutting down the oil supply but we won't buy oil from them. Hmm.. I don't usually quote from Reason. Don't tell anyone, it might destroy my liberal credentials.

I read it; the author has a very facile understanding of the situation and is demonstrably wrong. There is no evidence that keeping the Mullah regime flush with cash is slowing down their quest for nuclear weapons, if anything, by enforcing oil scarcity we are pushing up the oil price to a level where the Iranians can afford to develop weapons and fund their proxy wars and military build up.

492 EastSider  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:52:15pm

re: #476 BryanS

Only flaw in that analysis is that if we replace oil with something else, then that is a game changer. It is correct that 'drill here, drill now' crap is all hot air. Won't make a lick of difference in the price of oil. May help the trade imbalance a bit, but that's it.

true. if anything it would drive the cost of oil up right now.

the oil thats here is more expensive/harder to get to than oil elsewhere.

493 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:52:25pm

re: #481 Kruk

Yep, her record so far:

-Killed her brother with a shot gun (never booked or charged)
-Questioned about a pipe bomb (sent to a Professor who gave her a bad grade)
- Punches a woman who wouldn't give her a car seat
-Shoots up a department which denied her tenure

I would say she doesn't handle being denied what she wants very well.

You have to wonder where and how she might have been stopped before people died.

494 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:52:46pm

re: #473 mich-again

That might even prompt us to drill our own oil!

Our oil will be worth more to our kids than it is to us. We have to save something for them.

495 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:52:52pm

re: #471 goddamnedfrank

Cool..
It's almost 1am in Indiana and in a few hours I'll be driving in snow.. ( we get 2 more storms in the next seven days)
Good night Lizards..

496 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:52:58pm

re: #476 BryanS

Only flaw in that analysis is that if we replace oil with something else, then that is a game changer. It is correct that 'drill here, drill now' crap is all hot air. Won't make a lick of difference in the price of oil. May help the trade imbalance a bit, but that's it.

Exactly. Because it is a world market. The only bad thing that happens is when the buyers get scared and the price shoots up. And then Iran gets a little more money.

497 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:53:03pm

re: #488 iceweasel

Librhul eelitist expecting entitlements!//

Clearly Ami Bishop is the prodict of teh librul fashism!111!111!1

/

498 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:53:35pm

re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist

I can kind of understand the need to crush Levi.

You have a crush on Levi?

499 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:54:22pm

re: #497 Gus 802

Clearly Ami Bishop is the prodict of teh librul fashism!111!111!1

/

Y'KNOW WHO ELSE WAS DENIED TENUR?!?

uh, ok-- not Hitler.//

500 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:54:36pm

re: #498 Bagua

You have a crush on Levi?

Good Lord.

501 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:54:43pm

re: #472 webevintage

God yes, please give conservatives their tort reform and competing across state lines.
As long as it comes with insurance for folks even with pre-existing conditions, being able to keep you kids keep on your insurance until they are 26, have funded comprehensive community clinics like they have in Vermont and some type of option of a public option.

It would be a good start at compromise--alas, none of that will ever be allowed with Pelosi in charge of the House.

502 Kruk  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:55:06pm

re: #493 SanFranciscoZionist

You have to wonder where and how she might have been stopped before people died.

I'm quessing that if there were any deficiencies in either the way the police investigated the earlier incidents, or in UAH's background checks, the lawsuit damages are going to be massive.

503 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:55:18pm

re: #473 mich-again

That might even prompt us to drill our own oil!

Which would depress the oil price to a point where the Iranians would have little money left over to build nuclear weapons and wage proxy wars.

504 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:57:06pm

re: #474 Olsonist

Until W's axis of evil speech we were on track to normalizing relations with Iran. Trying. I'm expected Iran to be the subject of the next Two Minute Hate. This sounds too much like the trumped up WMDs in Iraq.

Or we could just buy their oil and leave them alone. It is a thought.

Cozying up to Iran now is a tough call. The military junta thing they have going on right now would make it a bit unseemly, to say the least. A-jad is Two-Minute-Hate worthy.

505 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:57:50pm

here comes the GREEN MACHINE!....and perpetual 8% unemployment....hahaha!....get ready for the shitstorm...you may even consider arming yourself

506 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:57:54pm

re: #502 Kruk

I'm quessing that if there were any deficiencies in either the way the police investigated the earlier incidents, or in UAH's background checks, the lawsuit damages are going to be massive.

Yeah but the problem is that she was cleared on the shooting of her brother. She was cleared on the mail bomb. The only thing they have is the IHOP incident.

507 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:58:01pm

re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist

I can kind of understand the need to crush Levi.

We too. He's such an immature, asshole, toad-like character. Its also that Sarah Palin had hopes for him as the father of her first grandchild. He failed those hopes rather badly, and her hostility is understandable.

508 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:58:56pm

re: #505 albusteve

That's a bit overnegative steve, IMO.

509 Kruk  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:59:37pm

re: #490 Silvergirl

Booster seat. Booster seat at an IHOP. Get your facts straight before I knock your block off!

Doh! I retract and apologise for that car seat comment. Completely unwarranted.

//

510 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:59:39pm

re: #474 Olsonist

Until W's axis of evil speech we were on track to normalizing relations with Iran. Trying. I'm expected Iran to be the subject of the next Two Minute Hate. This sounds too much like the trumped up WMDs in Iraq.

Or we could just buy their oil and leave them alone. It is a thought.

And President Bush was correct.

Iran is developing nuclear weapons in defiance of the international community, supports proxy wars against Israel that cause wars, and supplied and deployed terrorists in Iraq and now Afghanistan to attack US and coalition forces. Leaving them alone is not a sensible option.

511 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:59:40pm

re: #494 stevemcg

Our oil will be worth more to our kids than it is to us. We have to save something for them.

Heh. At the rate we're going, it sure won't be a sound economy we leave them.

512 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 9:59:50pm

re: #2 Rightwingconspirator

A Republican President could not make this fly, given the energy corporate reputation. I can only wonder if even a Dem can get this by the far left enviro advocates.

Yes. We understand the difference between 2g and 3g reactors. We still have a problem with fuel rods, but the alternative is disastrous.

513 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:00:24pm

re: #496 Olsonist

Exactly. Because it is a world market. The only bad thing that happens is when the buyers get scared and the price shoots up. And then Iran gets a little more money.

Putting on the crazy does work to their advantage. Unfortunately they are so damn good at it!

514 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:01:04pm

re: #476 BryanS

Only flaw in that analysis is that if we replace oil with something else, then that is a game changer. It is correct that 'drill here, drill now' crap is all hot air. Won't make a lick of difference in the price of oil. May help the trade imbalance a bit, but that's it.

No it's not crap. It would directly impact the Oil Price for decades, and perhaps permanently as that would give decades to roll out nuclear and further develop real alternatives.

515 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:01:33pm

re: #510 Bagua

And President Bush was correct.

Iran is developing nuclear weapons in defiance of the international community, supports proxy wars against Israel that cause wars, and supplied and deployed terrorists in Iraq and now Afghanistan to attack US and coalition forces. Leaving them alone is not a sensible option.

Hey, we invaded Iraq for less than that.

516 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:01:45pm

re: #507 Dark_Falcon

We too. He's such an immature, asshole, toad-like character. Its also that Sarah Palin had hopes for him as the father of her first grandchild. He failed those hopes rather badly, and her hostility is understandable.

Levi Johnston is in a category of his own. As much as I dislike Sarah Palin I have no interest in her personal life only to the point where she brings it up. The details that he presented are of no concern to me. He's a dirt bag because he should at least have remained somewhat loyal to their privacy. It's basically "kiss and tell" and I know the excuse is that he did it for the money.

517 jaunte  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:02:08pm

Some speculations from an oil speculator:

New Trade Regulation Proposals and Oil:

Ramifications of the Volcker proposals on oil:
-Banks have in recent years, invested heavily in risky ventures, which, if one recalls, led to the financial crisis. Major Banks in the US have pumped in billions of dollars speculating on oil and gas contracts. The latest proposal will make it difficult and expensive for the commercial banks to buy gas and oil contracts.
-Oil prices are driven by speculation, which will take a back seat with banks absent from the scene. Some analysts like hedge fund manager Mike Masters are of the view that the limited role of commercial banks will result in less volatility in the energy market.
-The 'Super Contango' will come to play its part. The oil stored will be offloaded into the market, resulting in more oil availability. (For more details on Contango: [Link: www.oil-price.net...]


[Link: oil-price.net...]

518 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:02:38pm

re: #515 Racer X

Hey, we invaded Iraq for less than that.

Not much less though.

519 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:03:40pm

re: #508 Dark_Falcon

That's a bit overnegative steve, IMO.

we are in for a world of hurt with our stupid refusal to energize ourselves....it's gonna pale compared to what Sarah Palins kids are up to...or former kids, or future kids or whatever shoes she wore today...how are we gonna come down to 5% unemployment again?....it's gonna take a lot of gas

520 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:03:55pm

re: #512 austin_blue

Yes. We understand the difference between 2g and 3g reactors. We still have a problem with fuel rods, but the alternative is disastrous.

Fuel rods are no longer a problem.

Traveling-Wave Reactors.

A traveling-wave reactor can sustain fission in a nonfissile fuel such as depleted uranium because it sets up a slow-moving wave in which neutrons produced by fission reactions in one small part of the core convert adjacent fuel pellets from fertile isotopes (such as U238) into fissile isotopes (such as Pu239).

The traveling-wave reactor creates the simplest nuclear energy fuel cycle. A TWR breeds its own nuclear fuel, where it needs it, when it needs it. Exhausted fuel can be left in the core. So unlike conventional nuclear plants that take in new fuel and expel high-level waste every 18 months or so, a TWR can in principle be fueled once, sealed up, and run without refueling for 60 years or more.

521 keloyd  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:04:17pm

re: #507 Dark_Falcon
If it was me who was thrust into the national spotlight, and I had no useful skills, or brains, or family/culture/religion that would put the dampers on my behavior, I would whore myself out too. He is not any lower class than his potential in-laws. He's probably made a million dollars off the "nuts" commercials, the Playgirl thing, and that thing where he was the arm candy for Kathy Griffin for a while, almost certainly for money.

If you're some 18 year old from Bohonk, Alaska, it's more money than you could ever accumulate working honestly your whole life. There's no down side for any of them, given the level of class where they started.

522 Kruk  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:05:22pm

re: #506 Gus 802

Yeah but the problem is that she was cleared on the shooting of her brother. She was cleared on the mail bomb. The only thing they have is the IHOP incident.

I was referring more to the way the police handled the shooting incident. It seems she got kid gloves treatment all the way. The investigators waited over a week to question the family "out of respect for their distress", a booking that was in progress was supposedly cut off by a call from the police chief, and the file seems to have gone missing. I'm not saying there was anything improper going on, but it does look bad.

523 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:05:27pm

re: #499 iceweasel

Y'KNOW WHO ELSE WAS DENIED TENUR?!?

uh, ok-- not Hitler.//

No, he was denied admission into an art school, TWICE!

524 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:05:27pm

re: #454 BryanS

Reid's not much of an asset, either. And when Obama has to deal with members of his own party caucus like Nelson, Landrieu and Lieberman--who all seem to want special favors--it's just one more handicap. Maybe real presidential leadership is getting those people in line; or maybe it's just not possible now.

Your market analysis seems sound. I'm no expert, but I suspect some would see a flaw in the contention that other more routine services will come down in price the way that elective procedures (nose jobs, laser eye surg.) have. Also, how does it solve the free rider problem or the overuse of emergency care? And how much of this is the GOP proposing?

525 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:05:35pm

re: #514 Bagua

No it's not crap. It would directly impact the Oil Price for decades, and perhaps permanently as that would give decades to roll out nuclear and further develop real alternatives.

Not really. Did you know, for instance, that much of Alaskan oil goes to Asian countries and not to US markets? Why? Because if international commerce--oil finds the most efficient way to a market that demands it. So we sell that oil to foreigners, and buy other oil that is less expensive to hit other parts of our market. Since oil is fungible, our drilling for oil will just end up meeting the vast increased demands for oil from China. It will just be yet another way we become their bitch.

526 palomino  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:07:21pm

re: #463 Lidane

Why not? She's already been in a public pissing contest with the teenage douchebag who fathered her grandchild. What's another public feud?

In this context, it's pretty astonishing that she is the favorite, among a plurality of registered republicans, to get the 2012 nod.

527 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:07:26pm

re: #525 BryanS

Since oil is fungible, our drilling for oil will just end up meeting the vast increased demands for oil from China. It will just be yet another way we become their bitch.

Eh?

Selling China a product makes us their bitch?

528 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:08:01pm

re: #517 jaunte

Interesting, thanks.

While it is possible this move would have the dampening effect mentioned on the oil price, the effect would be temporary. If GS & MS are taken out as players, the liquid funds will flow directly into the funds, who will not be restrained.

529 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:08:33pm

re: #522 Kruk

I was referring more to the way the police handled the shooting incident. It seems she got kid gloves treatment all the way. The investigators waited over a week to question the family "out of respect for their distress", a booking that was in progress was supposedly cut off by a call from the police chief, and the file seems to have gone missing. I'm not saying there was anything improper going on, but it does look bad.

Oh, you mean going back to the shooting of her brother. That will be difficult. I don't know what plays in here, "double jeopardy?" I think the mayor was last considering to reopen the case. To that end it would be political because right now Amy Bishop is facing these three murder charges and the death penalty. More than likely UAH has insurance to cover the lawsuits.

530 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:09:26pm

re: #265 jaunte

I hope the Intellectual Ventures folks take advantage of the President's initiative.

Ah, I could not remember who it was who posted the link to the TWR a few days ago. Must have been you - Thanks!

531 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:10:15pm

re: #525 BryanS

Not really. Did you know, for instance, that much of Alaskan oil goes to Asian countries and not to US markets? Why? Because if international commerce--oil finds the most efficient way to a market that demands it. So we sell that oil to foreigners, and buy other oil that is less expensive to hit other parts of our market. Since oil is fungible, our drilling for oil will just end up meeting the vast increased demands for oil from China. It will just be yet another way we become their bitch.

That is the point, adding to the supply will lower the price, it is the fundamental truth of the market. It is not so relevant where the oil flows, just that there is a glut in the market which will automatically depress the oil price.

This is proven time and again by the OPEC cartel. Open more spigots and the price falls.

532 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:10:22pm

re: #506 Gus 802

Yeah but the problem is that she was cleared on the shooting of her brother. She was cleared on the mail bomb. The only thing they have is the IHOP incident.

She wasn't 'cleared' on the brother death. No charges were filed and she was released into her mother's custody-- after a phone call from the police chief asking for that. The police reports are almost all missing. Her mother was on the board of personnal or something-- their town's version of the city council.

Looks super fishy. Link here with the initial circumstances of the shooting. Includes the now 'found' police reports.

he Norfolk County District Attorney has found and released the missing Braintree police report describing the 1986 incident in which Amy Bishop killed her teenage brother.

The DA concludes that, "The analysis of the newly received documents, as well as the previously released March 30, 1987 State Police report indicate that probable cause existed at that time to place Amy Bishop under arrest charged with:
Assault with a Dangerous Weapon, Chap. 265 Sec. 15B
Carrying a Dangerous Weapon, Chap. 269 Sec. 10, 12D
Unlawful possession of ammunition, Chap. 269 Ch. 10 (h)"

However, "The statute of limitations has run on all of those charges."

533 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:13:12pm

re: #532 iceweasel

Right. I read the police report (6 pages). She was never charged and never saw a day in court. It does sound suspicious. Her mother, Judith Bishop, was as you mention, a member of Board of Personnel. No mention of her father.

534 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:13:17pm

another CNN poll....a lot of people sure don't seem to like BO...one and done?...who will the TPs put up against him?....hahaha!...what a joke, get it?

535 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:13:24pm

re: #521 keloyd

If it was me who was thrust into the national spotlight, and I had no useful skills, or brains, or family/culture/religion that would put the dampers on my behavior, I would whore myself out too. He is not any lower class than his potential in-laws. He's probably made a million dollars off the "nuts" commercials, the Playgirl thing, and that thing where he was the arm candy for Kathy Griffin for a while, almost certainly for money.

If you're some 18 year old from Bohonk, Alaska, it's more money than you could ever accumulate working honestly your whole life. There's no down side for any of them, given the level of class where they started.

Nothing to lose but your honor and decency.

536 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:13:25pm

re: #514 Bagua

No it's not crap. It would directly impact the Oil Price for decades, and perhaps permanently as that would give decades to roll out nuclear and further develop real alternatives.

We have 3% of proven reserves. We could possibly max out at 6% of world supply.

You do the numbers.

And keep in mind that everyone will be fighting for that pie. Oil, like coal, is an extractive industry. We've got about two centuries left of recoverable reserves that won't be prohibitively expensive, and probably a lot less than that on oil.

Then what? Plastics, fertilizers, chemical production, are all based on hydrocarbons as feedstock. What runs modern economies is electricity. The faster we get electric production off of fossil fuels and into solar, wind, and nuclear, the better. It extends the life cycle of the (by definition) finite resource of fossil fuels.

Time for a paradigm change in this country. We should be leading the charge or our industrial base will be, permanently, well and truly pooched. Green industry is the only hope for this country's industrial future. If we give it up to the Chinese, we'll be Italy. Scary.

537 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:13:36pm

re: #525 BryanS

Not really. Did you know, for instance, that much of Alaskan oil goes to Asian countries and not to US markets? Why? Because if international commerce--oil finds the most efficient way to a market that demands it. So we sell that oil to foreigners, and buy other oil that is less expensive to hit other parts of our market. Since oil is fungible, our drilling for oil will just end up meeting the vast increased demands for oil from China. It will just be yet another way we become their bitch.

So it's not about oil. It's about oil companies. Some things never change.

538 Kruk  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:13:37pm

re: #529 Gus 802

Oh, you mean going back to the shooting of her brother. That will be difficult. I don't know what plays in here, "double jeopardy?" I think the mayor was last considering to reopen the case. To that end it would be political because right now Amy Bishop is facing these three murder charges and the death penalty. More than likely UAH has insurance to cover the lawsuits.

I don't think double jeopardy applies in this case. (AFIK, it only applies where a person is either acquitted at trial or the case is "dismissed with prejudice.") I don't think opening a decades old case *aganist Bishop* will achieve much, especially since she is already facing the death penalty. I'm guessing that if the police department can't show they did everything right, though, it could well result in civil action against the department or the city.

539 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:13:38pm

re: #524 palomino

Reid's not much of an asset, either. And when Obama has to deal with members of his own party caucus like Nelson, Landrieu and Lieberman--who all seem to want special favors--it's just one more handicap. Maybe real presidential leadership is getting those people in line; or maybe it's just not possible now.

Your market analysis seems sound. I'm no expert, but I suspect some would see a flaw in the contention that other more routine services will come down in price the way that elective procedures (nose jobs, laser eye surg.) have. Also, how does it solve the free rider problem or the overuse of emergency care? And how much of this is the GOP proposing?

Walmart has already open low cost clinics in some of their super centers in addition to their contribution to prescription drug cost lowering efforts. It's more convenient, cheaper, more accessible, run by nurses who basically refer anything non-routine to a doctor. The free market has surprising ways of coming up with lower cost options. Imagine if everyone bought their health care that way and not just the poor? Gone would be the days of $200 office visit charges for simple and routine care. Paul Ryan addresses some of the uncovered persons issues by including subsidies for the poorest. The GOP has proposed everything I have talked about. It just gets ignored.

540 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:14:16pm

re: #538 Kruk

I don't think double jeopardy applies in this case. (AFIK, it only applies where a person is either acquitted at trial or the case is "dismissed with prejudice.") I don't think opening a decades old case *aganist Bishop* will achieve much, especially since she is already facing the death penalty. I'm guessing that if the police department can't show they did everything right, though, it could well result in civil action against the department or the city.

Agreed.

541 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:14:35pm

re: #533 Gus 802

Right. I read the police report (6 pages). She was never charged and never saw a day in court. It does sound suspicious. Her mother, Judith Bishop, was as you mention, a member of Board of Personnel. No mention of her father.

I think they should get Cold Case Files onto this mystery....or at least Myth Busters

542 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:14:42pm

re: #515 Racer X

Hey, we invaded Iraq for less than that.

That worked well, eh?

543 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:16:00pm

re: #527 Racer X

Eh?

Selling China a product makes us their bitch?

No--freeing up our resources only to meet China's oil needs would make us their bitch. I'd rather see us spend money on nuclear/wind/solar/biofuels/he kitchen sink of energy research in order to wean us off of oil.

544 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:16:12pm
545 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:16:23pm

re: #542 austin_blue

That worked well, eh?

Yes.

546 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:16:42pm

re: #542 austin_blue

That worked well, eh?

yes, altho Bush should have surged a year earlier...what a whimp

547 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:17:23pm

re: #516 Gus 802

Levi Johnston is in a category of his own. As much as I dislike Sarah Palin I have no interest in her personal life only to the point where she brings it up. The details that he presented are of no concern to me. He's a dirt bag because he should at least have remained somewhat loyal to their privacy. It's basically "kiss and tell" and I know the excuse is that he did it for the money.

My issue with Palin over this is that she was perfectly happy to let her daughter marry the douchebag-- or pretend they were getting married -- during the campaign.

Two choices here: either she was so disconnected from her kids' lives and their friends she didn't know he was a douchebag (and I don't believe that. By all accounts Palin was and is extremely involved in her kids' lives. Even the McCain staffers who hated her admited that in the VF piece; they had to make sure they scheduled lots of time for her to be with her family or she just couldn't function.)
OR
She knew he was a douchebag, and either was perfectly happy to let her daughter marry him out of some bullshit idea about 'family values'-- or she knew they wouldn't get married and cynically used that, and them, as a political prop to fool the rubes.

Pretty damned shitty.

548 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:19:00pm

re: #536 austin_blue

Hey, there you are! I was looking for you upthread.

549 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:19:28pm

re: #544 Racer X

Brazilians are good looking folks.

550 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:20:01pm

re: #531 Bagua

That is the point, adding to the supply will lower the price, it is the fundamental truth of the market. It is not so relevant where the oil flows, just that there is a glut in the market which will automatically depress the oil price.

This is proven time and again by the OPEC cartel. Open more spigots and the price falls.

The US's capacity to impact world oil supply is essentially non-existent--not even a drop in the bucket. We're better off getting Iraq pumping more oil for that purpose.

551 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:20:22pm

I'm so happy go lucky...I have no issues with Palin...I wonder why anybody would...why do people have issues with celebrities, TV heads, and leftwing murderers?...lucky me, I missed the point

552 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:21:38pm

re: #547 iceweasel

My issue with Palin over this is that she was perfectly happy to let her daughter marry the douchebag-- or pretend they were getting married -- during the campaign.

Two choices here: either she was so disconnected from her kids' lives and their friends she didn't know he was a douchebag (and I don't believe that. By all accounts Palin was and is extremely involved in her kids' lives. Even the McCain staffers who hated her admited that in the VF piece; they had to make sure they scheduled lots of time for her to be with her family or she just couldn't function.)
OR
She knew he was a douchebag, and either was perfectly happy to let her daughter marry him out of some bullshit idea about 'family values'-- or she knew they wouldn't get married and cynically used that, and them, as a political prop to fool the rubes.

Pretty damned shitty.

I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on this one: I think she was hoping things would turn out well for here daughter's sake. Moreover, even if she knew Levi was an ass, her daughter might not have realized yet. And if Bristol didn't yet understand what a fool he was, Sarah Palin might have decided not to go after him and let her daughter figure things out for herself.

553 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:21:39pm

re: #547 iceweasel

My issue with Palin over this is that she was perfectly happy to let her daughter marry the douchebag-- or pretend they were getting married -- during the campaign.

Two choices here: either she was so disconnected from her kids' lives and their friends she didn't know he was a douchebag (and I don't believe that. By all accounts Palin was and is extremely involved in her kids' lives. Even the McCain staffers who hated her admited that in the VF piece; they had to make sure they scheduled lots of time for her to be with her family or she just couldn't function.)
OR
She knew he was a douchebag, and either was perfectly happy to let her daughter marry him out of some bullshit idea about 'family values'-- or she knew they wouldn't get married and cynically used that, and them, as a political prop to fool the rubes.

Pretty damned shitty.

They did a very poor job of vetting. You know, with all of the talk about nirth certificates you think they would have at least hire a PI to see what was going on with that lot. Even though I am not interested in the gossip they would have been able to notice that the Palins came with a lot of baggage which remains to this day. While the McCain camp will complain now the responsibility was in their hands at the time.

554 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:21:51pm

re: #550 BryanS

The US's capacity to impact world oil supply is essentially non-existent--not even a drop in the bucket. We're better off getting Iraq pumping more oil for that purpose.

I thought seizing the KSA fields was a good idea, but I never got any back up

555 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:22:13pm

re: #536 austin_blue

We have 3% of proven reserves. We could possibly max out at 6% of world supply.

You do the numbers.

And keep in mind that everyone will be fighting for that pie. Oil, like coal, is an extractive industry. We've got about two centuries left of recoverable reserves that won't be prohibitively expensive, and probably a lot less than that on oil.

Then what? Plastics, fertilizers, chemical production, are all based on hydrocarbons as feedstock. What runs modern economies is electricity. The faster we get electric production off of fossil fuels and into solar, wind, and nuclear, the better. It extends the life cycle of the (by definition) finite resource of fossil fuels.

Time for a paradigm change in this country. We should be leading the charge or our industrial base will be, permanently, well and truly pooched. Green industry is the only hope for this country's industrial future. If we give it up to the Chinese, we'll be Italy. Scary.

Mostly agreed. I'm not talking centuries, rather, a couple of decades and no one truly knows how much oil there is out there as the coasts are mostly off limits and restrictions abound on the rest.

I'd be looking for a 20-30 years boost in world supply that would depress the oil price, along with a massive roll out of Nuclear, Nat. Gas, and coal. It would lead to a period of prosperity during which time we could develop alternatives that make sense economically.

556 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:23:28pm

LOL. I just heard a funny (black humor) story from a media person who was in Vancouver on Saturday when the Black Blocers decided smash the windows of 'the man.'

So black masked protestor dude gets all aggro and takes his big stick and swings it against a window. Then 'BOING' it bounces right back and smashes him in the face. Ends up it was some sort of reinforced glass. Guy is so stunned he stumbles backwards, looks around as if to check if anybody saw, casually drops the stick and slinks off all sheepishly.

557 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:23:34pm

re: #548 Bagua

Hey, there you are! I was looking for you upthread.

Many, many, many. And I even know where to build them. Immediately next to the Coal Death Plants. Transmission infrastructure is there. Cooling ponds are there. Remove and replace! Let's get after it!

558 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:23:43pm

re: #551 albusteve

I'm so happy go lucky...I have no issues with Palin...I wonder why anybody would...why do people have issues with celebrities, TV heads, and leftwing murderers?...lucky me, I missed the point

She's a public figure no? She was the VP candidate. She has allusions of being the president and the CiC. If she was sitting around in Wasilla with her hands in her pockets that would be a different story. Until she leaves the public eye people will have issues.

559 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:24:01pm

re: #554 albusteve

I thought seizing the KSA fields was a good idea, but I never got any back up

Iraq already has a lot of increased capacity in the pipeline. A middle eastern country run on capitalism and not cronyism will act more rationally in the marketplace. Iraq could become positioned to meet Saudi Arabia's capacity in the next few years--according to a story I read, forget where, one of the national news mags.

560 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:24:26pm

re: #555 Bagua

Mostly agreed. I'm not talking centuries, rather, a couple of decades and no one truly knows how much oil there is out there as the coasts are mostly off limits and restrictions abound on the rest.

I'd be looking for a 20-30 years boost in world supply that would depress the oil price, along with a massive roll out of Nuclear, Nat. Gas, and coal. It would lead to a period of prosperity during which time we could develop alternatives that make sense economically.

I would bet my bottom dollar there is oil all over the place that we have not found...it's too deep, not that it can not be retrieved...oil reserve numbers are nonsense imo

561 Olsonist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:24:49pm

re: #536 austin_blue

We're giving our reserves to China. How fucking stupid.

562 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:24:53pm

re: #550 BryanS

The US's capacity to impact world oil supply is essentially non-existent--not even a drop in the bucket. We're better off getting Iraq pumping more oil for that purpose.

I disagree. Opening up to exploration could yield enough to make a significant impact in the coming decade, even based upon proven reserves. It is likely that there is a great deal more left undiscovered.

563 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:25:05pm

re: #534 albusteve

another CNN poll...a lot of people sure don't seem to like BO...one and done?...who will the TPs put up against him?...hahaha!...what a joke, get it?

Is this what you read, steve?

According to the poll, 44 percent of registered voters say Obama deserves re-election, with 52 percent saying the president does not deserve a second term in office. The survey also indicates that 49 percent of Americans approve of the job Obama's doing as president, with half of the public disapproving of his job in the White House.

The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll was conducted Friday through Monday, with 1,023 adult Americans, including 954 registered voters, questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points both for all Americans and for registered voters.

Other than this, the only CNN poll I saw was the one on their front page asking about gun ownership.

564 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:25:12pm

Some Donks want to go for broke:

Key Senate Democrats push for health care public option

If Reid even entertains their proposal, he's a fool.

565 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:25:46pm

re: #557 austin_blue

Many, many, many. And I even know where to build them. Immediately next to the Coal Death Plants. Transmission infrastructure is there. Cooling ponds are there. Remove and replace! Let's get after it!

Hear, hear! Bipartisan support everyone, right here at LGF.

566 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:26:07pm

My prediction wish list:

2010 - 2020
Continue using fossil fuels. Continue to develop alternative energy. Increase nuclear power production.

2020 - 2050
Shift to electric derived from nuclear power sources as our primary energy conduit. Continue to develop alternative power. Solar power becomes very cost effective.

2050 - 2090
Personal cars are all electric. Fossil fuel used for trucking and shipping. Limited use of coal. Small shed-sized nuclear power plants are common throughout the country. Every home and building in America begin to use roofing material made out of solar panels.

2090 and beyond
Phase out nuclear power plants. Solar and wind power plants are the norm. Rainbows and ponies for all!

567 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:27:29pm

re: #560 albusteve

I would bet my bottom dollar there is oil all over the place that we have not found...it's too deep, not that it can not be retrieved...oil reserve numbers are nonsense imo

Absolutely, and most of the most promising areas are closed to exploration, not only production.

568 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:28:20pm

re: #549 Killgore Trout

Brazilians are good looking folks.

Yes, and those floats are amazing!

569 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:28:48pm

re: #552 Dark_Falcon

I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on this one: I think she was hoping things would turn out well for here daughter's sake. Moreover, even if she knew Levi was an ass, her daughter might not have realized yet. And if Bristol didn't yet understand what a fool he was, Sarah Palin might have decided not to go after him and let her daughter figure things out for herself.

It's also a tough place for a parent to be. To show disapproval of the kids' choice of mates often pushes them closer together.

570 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:29:49pm

re: #562 Bagua

I disagree. Opening up to exploration could yield enough to make a significant impact in the coming decade, even based upon proven reserves. It is likely that there is a great deal more left undiscovered.

There probably is more to be discovered, but in the US, coal is king. We could be nearly self sufficient on methanol from coal, assuming proper investment in infrastructure. If we go the fossil fuel route, for the US that means coal. I think we should continue biofuel R&D plus nuclear to replace our natural gas electrical plants a la Boone Pickens. Fleet vehicles could easily be all natural gas. That would actually drastically cut oil demand and shift consumption internally to home grown resources. Mr Pickens would become even richer, but he's right on policy until better transportation fuel technology is developed.

571 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:29:58pm

re: #552 Dark_Falcon

I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on this one: I think she was hoping things would turn out well for here daughter's sake. Moreover, even if she knew Levi was an ass, her daughter might not have realized yet. And if Bristol didn't yet understand what a fool he was, Sarah Palin might have decided not to go after him and let her daughter figure things out for herself.

I dunno, DF. It's not really 'usual' to encourage teen marriage. You might want your daughter to marry the father of the baby, but often it's with conditions like "finish school".

And as for letting Bristol figure it out on her own-- well, there's a lot of truth in the need for kids (or anyone) needing to figure out stuff on their own.
But this is exactly the kind of place where parents DO step in-- if you care about the 'sanctity of marriage' and think it's for life, you aren't cavailer about the idea of a 'starter marriage' or letting your kid (and Bristol was a kid) 'figure it out' after marriage to a dirtbag.

Plus, the evidence that Levi was a dirtbag was literally everywhere. Hell, it was on his myspace page. Had Palin really not looked at that?
I am giving Palin the benefit of the doubt, believe it or not, in my analysis. The parents I know with teenagers are all over their kids myspace pages and facebook pages, especially if they have a female teenager-- approving the 'friend' requests, monitoring their 'boyfriends' pages. Monitoring everything, as much as they can.
Palin is by all accounts a mother who was and is very involved with her kids. I just don't buy this idea.

572 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:30:25pm

re: #569 Silvergirl

It's also a tough place for a parent to be. To show disapproval of the kids' choice of mates often pushes them closer together.

That's very true, and it may have weighed in Sarah Palin's mind.

573 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:30:34pm

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

Some Donks want to go for broke:

Key Senate Democrats push for health care public option

If Reid even entertains their proposal, he's a fool.

Well, Reid is a fool, so I guess we're all doomed.

574 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:30:42pm

re: #558 Gus 802

She's a public figure no? She was the VP candidate. She has allusions of being the president and the CiC. If she was sitting around in Wasilla with her hands in her pockets that would be a different story. Until she leaves the public eye people will have issues.

yup, too bad...she is only as important as people make her...it's just another expression of AmIdolism....same with the rest of the celebrity pols...I'm doubting my responsibility to vote anymore....I think Americans should shun these people and their TV and media promoters....but you blather on, like the rest...nothing personal

575 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:31:05pm

re: #555 Bagua

Mostly agreed. I'm not talking centuries, rather, a couple of decades and no one truly knows how much oil there is out there as the coasts are mostly off limits and restrictions abound on the rest.

I'd be looking for a 20-30 years boost in world supply that would depress the oil price, along with a massive roll out of Nuclear, Nat. Gas, and coal. It would lead to a period of prosperity during which time we could develop alternatives that make sense economically.

Coal fields are defined. no new reserves will be found that are economically productive. reserves are finite and horribly destructive to the climate. Coal is filthy.

We need to make the switch now. Unless you really want to see a migration of 1 billion people away from soon to be inundated low lying coastal areas, fighting for food and water, destabilizing world markets, the energy shift must come in the next 40 years.

576 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:31:10pm

Green Energy is pie in the sky feel good stuff at this point. It will be decades just getting to 20% of US consumption, and that requires massive subsidy.

It may eventually be a real player, but right now it is smoke and mirrors.

577 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:31:44pm

re: #563 Silvergirl

Other than this, the only CNN poll I saw was the one on their front page asking about gun ownership.

no...what I saw was up on Drudge...another CNN poll

578 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:32:02pm

re: #571 iceweasel

I dunno, DF. It's not really 'usual' to encourage teen marriage. You might want your daughter to marry the father of the baby, but often it's with conditions like "finish school".

And as for letting Bristol figure it out on her own-- well, there's a lot of truth in the need for kids (or anyone) needing to figure out stuff on their own.
But this is exactly the kind of place where parents DO step in-- if you care about the 'sanctity of marriage' and think it's for life, you aren't cavailer about the idea of a 'starter marriage' or letting your kid (and Bristol was a kid) 'figure it out' after marriage to a dirtbag.

Plus, the evidence that Levi was a dirtbag was literally everywhere. Hell, it was on his myspace page. Had Palin really not looked at that?
I am giving Palin the benefit of the doubt, believe it or not, in my analysis. The parents I know with teenagers are all over their kids myspace pages and facebook pages, especially if they have a female teenager-- approving the 'friend' requests, monitoring their 'boyfriends' pages. Monitoring everything, as much as they can.
Palin is by all accounts a mother who was and is very involved with her kids. I just don't buy this idea.

I hear you, ice. Though all the monitoring parenting requires just gives me even more reason not to want have children.

579 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:33:07pm

re: #2 BryanS

Gotta disagree strongly. Being on the inside of the biz, there are a lot of docs that should not be practicing. Malpractice history has more impact on getting privileges than anything else. Sure, some shysters take advantage, but you would be surprised much malpractice goes unlitigated. My wife has never been sued. She's been lucky, but smart, too. But she has had to bail out more than a few surgical catastrophies, then make everything nice with the patient. From personal experience, both of our fathers suffered terribly from malpractice, but both werer retired, so what would they recover under your plan? Their medical expenses? My wife was also a victim. She was discharged with a hemoglobin of 6.5, with an open, infected incision that went 67% around the circumference of her body, and on coumadin. When she realized she was home, she called 911 and got herself readmitted (with "chest pain"!). We think the doctor wanted to get her out of his hair. He's still on staff, and Philadelphia Magazine thinks he's one of the best! Non-economic damages may seem repulsive, but there is so little recourse against hacks.

580 wee fury  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:33:28pm

re: #576 Bagua

Green Energy is pie in the sky feel good stuff at this point. It will be decades just getting to 20% of US consumption, and that requires massive subsidy.

It may eventually be a real player, but right now it is smoke and mirrors.

Ethanol is a disaster.

581 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:33:48pm

Night all. Sweet dreams to each and every Lizard.

582 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:34:01pm

re: #574 albusteve

yup, too bad...she is only as important as people make her...it's just another expression of AmIdolism...same with the rest of the celebrity pols...I'm doubting my responsibility to vote anymore...I think Americans should shun these people and their TV and media promoters...but you blather on, like the rest...nothing personal

Yeah, I do blather on a bout her. Out on the street I never bring her up. Don't talk to anyone about it. Sometimes it's just the context.

583 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:34:21pm

re: #570 BryanS

There probably is more to be discovered, but in the US, coal is king. We could be nearly self sufficient on methanol from coal, assuming proper investment in infrastructure. If we go the fossil fuel route, for the US that means coal. I think we should continue biofuel R&D plus nuclear to replace our natural gas electrical plants a la Boone Pickens. Fleet vehicles could easily be all natural gas. That would actually drastically cut oil demand and shift consumption internally to home grown resources. Mr Pickens would become even richer, but he's right on policy until better transportation fuel technology is developed.

I'm all for using our coal, Gas and increasing crude. We would have decades of prosperity.

584 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:34:46pm

re: #581 austin_blue

Night all. Sweet dreams to each and every Lizard.

And to you as well.

585 Silvergirl  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:35:44pm

re: #577 albusteve

no...what I saw was up on Drudge...another CNN poll

That is one screaming headline! If I had looked there, I'd have no trouble finding it. The one I read was in the politics section of CNN, but it's the same information.

586 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:35:45pm

re: #576 Bagua

Green Energy is pie in the sky feel good stuff at this point. It will be decades just getting to 20% of US consumption, and that requires massive subsidy.

It may eventually be a real player, but right now it is smoke and mirrors.

la la la la...I feel good about myself today! la la la la
(I have my own Trader Joe's free range cotton sack!)

587 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:36:18pm

re: #580 wee fury

Ethanol is a disaster.

times 2...epic fail

588 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:36:41pm

re: #579 stevemcg

Gotta disagree strongly. Being on the inside of the biz, there are a lot of docs that should not be practicing. Malpractice history has more impact on getting privileges than anything else. Sure, some shysters take advantage, but you would be surprised much malpractice goes unlitigated. My wife has never been sued. She's been lucky, but smart, too. But she has had to bail out more than a few surgical catastrophies, then make everything nice with the patient. From personal experience, both of our fathers suffered terribly from malpractice, but both werer retired, so what would they recover under your plan? Their medical expenses? My wife was also a victim. She was discharged with a hemoglobin of 6.5, with an open, infected incision that went 67% around the circumference of her body, and on coumadin. When she realized she was home, she called 911 and got herself readmitted (with "chest pain"!). We think the doctor wanted to get her out of his hair. He's still on staff, and Philadelphia Magazine thinks he's one of the best! Non-economic damages may seem repulsive, but there is so little recourse against hacks.

Pulling a license seems like a better response than a million billion dollars--ok, I exaggerate :) -- in punitive damaged. Maybe that should be a jury awarded punitive damage that can be wielded.

589 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:38:11pm

re: #575 austin_blue

Coal fields are defined. no new reserves will be found that are economically productive. reserves are finite and horribly destructive to the climate. Coal is filthy.

We need to make the switch now. Unless you really want to see a migration of 1 billion people away from soon to be inundated low lying coastal areas, fighting for food and water, destabilizing world markets, the energy shift must come in the next 40 years.

I don't advocate using the centuries of coal we know about, two or three decades worth would suit me, by then it may no longer be as important.

As far as you prediction of 1 billion soon inundated, that is highly speculative at best. Soon is likely 300 to a thousand years in the future and far from proven definitively.

590 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:38:16pm
591 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:39:05pm

re: #572 Dark_Falcon

That's very true, and it may have weighed in Sarah Palin's mind.

Yes, and it definitely explains why she wouldn't have wanted to 'break them up'-- but not why she'd have been claiming they were going to get married in, what was it, Dec 2008? Early 2009? Fast.

Also, I don't know if people here remember, but IIRC when the media storm hit Bristol and Levi appeared to have been broken up-- he'd listed himself as 'single' on his facebook or myspace.

Again, this is all shitty vetting by the McCain campaign. Bristol's pregnancy was already an 'open secret' in alaska before McCain picked Palin. It was documented in a bunch of places. Apparently the McCain campaign didn't know.
Also-- ok, so Palin chose to grab the brass ring, who can blame her, really. National platform, major opportunity.
But she had to know her daughter's condition was going to be a major issue. She didn't disclose it to McCain peeps when she accepted.
IMO that was extremely bad judgement-- not as a politician, but as a mother.

592 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:39:13pm

re: #580 wee fury

Ethanol is a disaster.

Absolutely. Contributes to the poor of the world starving and is destructive for the environment. An absolute disgrace.

593 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:39:49pm

re: #571 iceweasel

I dunno, DF. It's not really 'usual' to encourage teen marriage. You might want your daughter to marry the father of the baby, but often it's with conditions like "finish school".

And as for letting Bristol figure it out on her own-- well, there's a lot of truth in the need for kids (or anyone) needing to figure out stuff on their own.
But this is exactly the kind of place where parents DO step in-- if you care about the 'sanctity of marriage' and think it's for life, you aren't cavailer about the idea of a 'starter marriage' or letting your kid (and Bristol was a kid) 'figure it out' after marriage to a dirtbag.

Plus, the evidence that Levi was a dirtbag was literally everywhere. Hell, it was on his myspace page. Had Palin really not looked at that?
I am giving Palin the benefit of the doubt, believe it or not, in my analysis. The parents I know with teenagers are all over their kids myspace pages and facebook pages, especially if they have a female teenager-- approving the 'friend' requests, monitoring their 'boyfriends' pages. Monitoring everything, as much as they can.
Palin is by all accounts a mother who was and is very involved with her kids. I just don't buy this idea.

I have another theory. Perhaps Palin is more liberal than she lets on to be. Thus we're dealing with your typical two faced politician.

594 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:39:50pm

re: #581 austin_blue

Night all. Sweet dreams to each and every Lizard.

Thanks for stopping by, a nuclear thread without you would be lacking!

595 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:40:02pm

re: #583 Bagua

I'm all for using our coal, Gas and increasing crude. We would have decades of prosperity.

I think reducing fossil fuels should be an additional requirement. I'm not 100% sold on the verdict that global warming will result in the complete melting of the ice caps, but the risk of that happening is there if not a lesser increase in sea level. The science is pretty solid--and basic at that--that C02 increases absorption of solar energy. It seems prudent to consider it in our energy plan.

596 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:40:14pm

What, you want another medical f-up? My father's in intensive care after bypass surgery. The doctor's concerned that there are no bowel sounds, and he can't seem to get off the ventilator. They keep listening, and listening, and listening, and listening, and listening, for three days. Finally my wife the foot doctor comes in, asks where the surgeon got the graft from and diagnoses him in 10 seconds. He had a massive hernia in his diaphraghm and his bowels had extruded up into his chest cavity. No wonder he couldn't breathe. My fasther never really recovered but he didn't want to pursue the case becuse it wouldn't do him any good. So we let it go. Surgeon is now chair of the department.

597 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:40:39pm
598 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:42:21pm

re: #578 Dark_Falcon

I hear you, ice. Though all the monitoring parenting requires just gives me even more reason not to want have children.

Well, I hear that. I'm not entirely comfortable criticising anyone's parenting issues, as I am not a parent. I think it's only gotten to be more difficult recently. (yes, everyone always says it's harder now, whenever 'now' is, than ever, but the internet and tech in general makes it crazy difficult.)

I don't even want to think about the trouble I could have, and would have, gotten into as a teenager with the tech now. Yikes!

599 albusteve  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:42:47pm

I'm finally out...I can't take anymore

600 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:42:53pm

re: #104 BryanS

Pulling a license seems like a better response than a million billion dollars--ok, I exaggerate :) -- in punitive damaged. Maybe that should be a jury awarded punitive damage that can be wielded.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to pull a license? Besides, it can't be a jury awarded action because it would be inherently unevenly applied, making it unconstitutional before you can say "But-"

601 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:43:12pm

re: #595 BryanS

I think reducing fossil fuels should be an additional requirement. I'm not 100% sold on the verdict that global warming will result in the complete melting of the ice caps, but the risk of that happening is there if not a lesser increase in sea level. The science is pretty solid--and basic at that--that C02 increases absorption of solar energy. It seems prudent to consider it in our energy plan.

The decrease would happen naturally as viable alternatives hit the market.

Even the scientists are not sold 100%, and should it occur, 100 to 1,000 years is plenty of time to move inland a bit.

602 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:44:01pm

re: #113 prairiefire

Jesse James may be long dead, but there are still a hell of a lot of bank robbers.

Because, like Willie Sutton said, banks are where the money's at...

603 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:45:16pm

re: #593 Gus 802

I have another theory. Perhaps Palin is more liberal than she lets on to be. Thus we're dealing with your typical two faced politician.

Really? Why?

I've been following a lot of Palin's career since she got the nom. Mostly alaskan sources.
She doesn't appear to have any ideology at all to me, apart from 'me me me', and opportunism.
In another state and time she might have been a liberal.

604 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:46:13pm

re: #598 iceweasel

Well, I hear that. I'm not entirely comfortable criticising anyone's parenting issues, as I am not a parent. I think it's only gotten to be more difficult recently. (yes, everyone always says it's harder now, whenever 'now' is, than ever, but the internet and tech in general makes it crazy difficult.)

I don't even want to think about the trouble I could have, and would have, gotten into as a teenager with the tech now. Yikes!

Me neither.

I'm really fading so I'm going to sign off now. Goodnight, everyone.

605 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:47:03pm

re: #596 stevemcg

What, you want another medical f-up? My father's in intensive care after bypass surgery. The doctor's concerned that there are no bowel sounds, and he can't seem to get off the ventilator. They keep listening, and listening, and listening, and listening, and listening, for three days. Finally my wife the foot doctor comes in, asks where the surgeon got the graft from and diagnoses him in 10 seconds. He had a massive hernia in his diaphraghm and his bowels had extruded up into his chest cavity. No wonder he couldn't breathe. My fasther never really recovered but he didn't want to pursue the case becuse it wouldn't do him any good. So we let it go. Surgeon is now chair of the department.

You obviously have a very personal situation, and in your position I may feel the same. But punitive money awards didn't make a difference in your family's situation. I would think in lieu of punitive money awards, allowing for jury punitive damage of yanking medical license would achieve the same result without costing the rest of us a fortune in health care costs. Punitive money awards are paid by insurance companies, and not directly by the doctor but by all practicioners and consumers of health care.

606 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:47:24pm

re: #603 iceweasel

Really? Why?

I've been following a lot of Palin's career since she got the nom. Mostly alaskan sources.
She doesn't appear to have any ideology at all to me, apart from 'me me me', and opportunism.
In another state and time she might have been a liberal.

I meant with her kids. So there's a duality. You know, "do as I say, not as I do."

607 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:48:15pm

re: #600 stevemcg

Do you have any idea how hard it is to pull a license? Besides, it can't be a jury awarded action because it would be inherently unevenly applied, making it unconstitutional before you can say "But-"

And money awards are not unevenly applied?

608 Racer X  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:49:29pm
609 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:49:41pm

re: #606 Gus 802

I meant with her kids. So there's a duality. You know, "do as I say, not as I do."

Oh right-- yes. Definitely can see that.

And that's fine.
I have a major issue with, and will always have an issue with, Palin faking certain 'family values' for rube consumption.
Also Palin's various bullshit stances on reproductive rights in general.

610 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:50:13pm

re: #601 Bagua

The decrease would happen naturally as viable alternatives hit the market.

Even the scientists are not sold 100%, and should it occur, 100 to 1,000 years is plenty of time to move inland a bit.

Would only take a modest 10 meters or so to lose half of Florida. Though I'm in a northern state, so I say bring it on :)

611 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:50:34pm

re: #608 Racer X

Same Sex

Oh that's good. Wow.

612 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:54:03pm

re: #610 BryanS

Would only take a modest 10 meters or so to lose half of Florida. Though I'm in a northern state, so I say bring it on :)

Perhaps, but not for centuries if ever. The people alive then, 20 to 30 generations of as yet unborn folks will have plenty of time to build houses elsewhere.

613 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:55:35pm

re: #609 iceweasel

Oh right-- yes. Definitely can see that.

And that's fine.
I have a major issue with, and will always have an issue with, Palin faking certain 'family values' for rube consumption.
Also Palin's various bullshit stances on reproductive rights in general.

The rube consumption is confusing. We have the duality and the liberal treatment of her daughter. We also have the fact that her husband is a union member while her fan-base is vehemently anti-union. Todd Palin might as well be a member of SEIU. That doesn't seem to sink in. Kind of like the right-wing theocrats never accepting the fact that Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian and he has a moderate view to near progressive view on gays. A lot of denial at play here. Her stance on abortion even to the point of opposing it with regards to rape and incest is ridiculous.

614 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:57:50pm

Doctors are the only ones writing checks to the malpractice insurance companies. Did you know that the most important factor when a doctor is reupping for privileges is the malpractice history? Hospitals don't want their doctors getting them in trouble. When my wife has to take a risk management class to get a discount, only 10% of that test is actually on medicine. Heck I can pass the test. (Two years ago I actually did) If you want to go global and preach about the way that malpractice costs are passed on to all consumers (as if that were a novel concept), take the amount of money paid out in non-economic damages and portion it out. It won't turn out to be a big savings. All you're doing is throwing a bone to a lobby.

615 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 10:58:30pm

re: #608 Racer X

Same Sex

If you add in age of consent then many states will allow you to marry your 15 year old first cousin. As long as she or he is the opposite sex.

Weird. That even breaks the inbreeding rule.

616 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:00:53pm

re: #131 Gus 802

Just giving those recessive genes a chance to show themselves.

617 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:01:12pm

re: #613 Gus 802

The rube consumption is confusing. We have the duality and the liberal treatment of her daughter. We also have the fact that her husband is a union member while her fan-base is vehemently anti-union. Todd Palin might as well be a member of SEIU. That doesn't seem to sink in. Kind of like the right-wing theocrats never accepting the fact that Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian and he has a moderate view to near progressive view on gays. A lot of denial at play here. Her stance on abortion even to the point of opposing it with regards to rape and incest is ridiculous.

I get you on the duality, but I still don't see how her treatment of her daughter is at all 'liberal'. (Unless we're talking about Levi's claims that he lived with the Palins, but my understanding is that he and Bristol weren't openly sharing a room, and I think even Levi says that's the case.)
Haven't followed all the Jerry Springer-ish turns in this though, I admit. Levi is just a dirtbag, and even though I really dislike Palin I don't see the need to care about whatever crap he's peddling about her.

618 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:01:44pm

re: #591 iceweasel

Yes, and it definitely explains why she wouldn't have wanted to 'break them up'-- but not why she'd have been claiming they were going to get married in, what was it, Dec 2008? Early 2009? Fast.

Also, I don't know if people here remember, but IIRC when the media storm hit Bristol and Levi appeared to have been broken up-- he'd listed himself as 'single' on his facebook or myspace.

Again, this is all shitty vetting by the McCain campaign. Bristol's pregnancy was already an 'open secret' in alaska before McCain picked Palin. It was documented in a bunch of places. Apparently the McCain campaign didn't know.
Also-- ok, so Palin chose to grab the brass ring, who can blame her, really. National platform, major opportunity.
But she had to know her daughter's condition was going to be a major issue. She didn't disclose it to McCain peeps when she accepted.
IMO that was extremely bad judgement-- not as a politician, but as a mother.

It's very hard for me to be levelheaded about this, and most of it does not have to do with Palin herself, but with the adoring pundits who drooled on her shoes in that early honeymoon phase.

But I believe that the 'they're getting married!' business was purely for the public, and it was calculated and frankly a lousy thing to do to a couple of kids who were undoubtedly trying to figure a lot of things out.

Didn't like it. And didn't like Levi getting brought along to the convention.

619 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:01:56pm

Before everyone gets giddy that the Obama Admin is committed to nuclear energy, allow me to sprinkle a factoid into the mix that isn't altogether pleasant.

If we are to have a revival of nuclear energy in this country, we have to have a fuel supply for it.

And if nuclear energy is to be green, the fuel supply has to be green.

USEC is a company in the US that was spun off from the US Government (dept of Energy) by the Clinton Administration. It was spun off so that the US Government would get out of the fuel supply business to US and international reactors so that the US would be compliant with trade agreements (especially with Russia, who we wanted to encourage to have a civilian nuclear power industry post cold war so talent didn't contract out to places like Iraq and Iran).

You don't fuel reactors with raw Uranium. You "refine" it via enrichment. USEC is in the business of enriching uranium. When it started business it inherited the method that the dept of energy used for refinement - a very electricity intensive process called Gas Diffusion. It uses so much power that, at peak production in the cold war, Paducah consumed about 2/3 of the electricity output of the TVA, wherein coal fired plants backfilled supply for civilian demand.

Gas Diffusion is so costly in terms of electricity that almost all producers have moved away from it. The most common new technology is Centrifuge Cascades. Heard of Iran? Heard of their enrichment activities? They use Centrifuge Cascades and have deployed it successfully on an industrial scale.

USEC was recently embarked on a project to build a Centrifuge Cascade in Ohio. USEC has a long history with the Department of Energy and the DOE has done it favors from time to time while USEC has done the DOE favors. So USEC, for instance, has paid for much of the cleanup of the Paducah plant as well as a couple of other facilities that they inherited from the DOE. The DOE had encouraged USEC to build the centrifuge plant and had suggested the US could provide a loan guarantee.

To pull of building the plant, USEC had to rebuild the infrastructure of skilled workers in an industry that the US had mothballed for 20 years. It bought a facility at Oak Ridge Tenn. for the purpose of manufacturing centrifuges. Meanwhile it filled out the paperwork for the loan guarantee, only to learn later that the process would "be opened up" and the loan guarantee would go to a company or companies that could make the biggest impact on reducing dependence on fossil fuels using innovative technologies. USEC did the calculations and saw something that made them feel great - by getting rid of Gas Diffusion they'd DOUBLE the savings of the next competitor's most optimistic case.

They and the United Steel Workers (whose union members man the operations of USECs plants) even felt warmed when candidate Barack Obama made a campaign stop at USEC's American Centrifuge Plant in Ohio and promised that he'd deliver the loan guarantee.

So what happened?

[Link: www.usec.com...]

I am a strong proponent of clean and safe nuclear energy and have been one far longer than Obama. If he wants to walk the walk, then nukes will be fueled by Uranium enriched domestically and via centrifuges. If Gas Diffusion is used, we might as well continue burning coal.

620 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:03:13pm

re: #593 Gus 802

I have another theory. Perhaps Palin is more liberal than she lets on to be. Thus we're dealing with your typical two faced politician.

I don't know about liberal--I just think she believes in Palin exceptionalism.

621 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:03:27pm

re: #615 Gus 802

If you add in age of consent then many states will allow you to marry your 15 year old first cousin. As long as she or he is the opposite sex.

Weird. That even breaks the inbreeding rule.

Yes. I'd like to see a map that shows all the states that permit really young people to get married. IIRC some state allows it even at 13 with 'parental consent' and (possibly?) a pregnancy.

622 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:04:02pm

re: #617 iceweasel

I get you on the duality, but I still don't see how her treatment of her daughter is at all 'liberal'. (Unless we're talking about Levi's claims that he lived with the Palins, but my understanding is that he and Bristol weren't openly sharing a room, and I think even Levi says that's the case.)
Haven't followed all the Jerry Springer-ish turns in this though, I admit. Levi is just a dirtbag, and even though I really dislike Palin I don't see the need to care about whatever crap he's peddling about her.

I wish she would go away. The whole situation is so strange. People think that Obama is a bad president and they're offering this moron as an option.

"Drill here, drill now." Yawn.

623 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:05:01pm

re: #620 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know about liberal--I just think she believes in Palin exceptionalism.

The second coming of Ronald Reagan!!11!!1

//"I quit!" -- Ronald Reagan

//

624 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:05:57pm

re: #614 stevemcg

Doctors are the only ones writing checks to the malpractice insurance companies.


Of course. And consumers of health care need to pay those doctors enough to cover those costs.


Did you know that the most important factor when a doctor is reupping for privileges is the malpractice history? Hospitals don't want their doctors getting them in trouble. When my wife has to take a risk management class to get a discount, only 10% of that test is actually on medicine. Heck I can pass the test. (Two years ago I actually did) If you want to go global and preach about the way that malpractice costs are passed on to all consumers (as if that were a novel concept), take the amount of money paid out in non-economic damages and portion it out. It won't turn out to be a big savings. All you're doing is throwing a bone to a lobby.

Of course malpractice history is part of an insurance company's decision to re-up. You're point about risk management having little to do with actual medicine is a counter point to your own argument--defensive medicine, unnecessary tests and procedures having little to do with medicine are required of doctors to avoid lawsuits. Those too are added costs to health care.

625 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:06:03pm

re: #609 iceweasel

Oh right-- yes. Definitely can see that.

And that's fine.
I have a major issue with, and will always have an issue with, Palin faking certain 'family values' for rube consumption.
Also Palin's various bullshit stances on reproductive rights in general.

I just can't stand her. I realize this may be unfair, and as I said, has a LOT to do with the way she was presented by her early boosters.

Really, Huckabee wants to edit the Constitution so it aligns with the Bible, and I just sort of smile and nod, and think "Make aliyah if by some weird chance he makes it to the Oval Office." Sweet man.

Palin makes me nuts.

Oh well. Now I know how the people who can't stand Obama feel.

626 Bagua  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:07:30pm

re: #619 karmic_inquisitor

Excellent post, thank you.

627 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:08:07pm

re: #623 Gus 802

The second coming of Ronald Reagan!!11!!1

//"I quit!" -- Ronald Reagan

//

you know, Sharmuta had a really smart comment imo about the GOP-- something like they had written the script and desperately were seeking about for actors to fill the roles, no matter how unsuited.

I said something like, yeah, and the script they have stars REAGAN!!11! -- they want Palin to be Reagan. Popular, charismatic, etc.
Palin is no reagan. She's not even Zombie Reagan.

628 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:08:14pm

re: #621 iceweasel

Yes. I'd like to see a map that shows all the states that permit really young people to get married. IIRC some state allows it even at 13 with 'parental consent' and (possibly?) a pregnancy.

I forgot if Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert did a short skit on even corporations being allowed to get married. Even insolvent and unethical corporations.

Frankly, I find it astonishing that gays are still considered second class citizens in this country. We need a Federal law granting gay marriage once and for all. That way we can also stop listening to idiots like Carrie Prejan talk amongst other things.

629 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:08:22pm

re: #615 Gus 802

If you add in age of consent then many states will allow you to marry your 15 year old first cousin. As long as she or he is the opposite sex.

Weird. That even breaks the inbreeding rule.

But marrying cousins is in the Bible! ;)

And is normative in an awful lot of places.

630 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:10:24pm

re: #621 iceweasel

Yes. I'd like to see a map that shows all the states that permit really young people to get married. IIRC some state allows it even at 13 with 'parental consent' and (possibly?) a pregnancy.

I flat-out think that it's a bad idea to allow people to marry before, say, sixteen, under any circumstances. And I'd say eighteen, if I had my druthers.

Actually, I'd say twenty-one, if I really had my druthers.

631 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:12:32pm

re: #140 BryanS

Bad news about the defensive medicine thing. The reason my wife orfders MRI's on heel spurs (which you practically dx over the phone) is that the guy who runs the MRI center is buddies with the president of the medical staff. Now if you aren't referring enough body parts to the scanner the president gets a complaint from his buddy and then you get a call from the president. You don't want that call. So, are you going to blame it on your medical staff president or are you just going to say that you have to be defensive. BTW, the prez is also good friends with the ultrasound guy, and the PT guy, and so on.

632 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:12:37pm

re: #625 SanFranciscoZionist

I just can't stand her. I realize this may be unfair, and as I said, has a LOT to do with the way she was presented by her early boosters.

Really, Huckabee wants to edit the Constitution so it aligns with the Bible, and I just sort of smile and nod, and think "Make aliyah if by some weird chance he makes it to the Oval Office." Sweet man.

Palin makes me nuts.

Oh well. Now I know how the people who can't stand Obama feel.

I loathe Palin. Oh, I never liked her, and I hated what she did (energising a faux-populist movement, being McCain's hitwoman, basically)-- but I didn't start to loathe her until she tossed over the governorship.
She's nothing but an opportunist, and she's profundly stupid. Let her be a newscaster in Bumfuck America (which is what she always wanted anyway) and I'll never think of her again.
Sadly, we're saddled with her.

633 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:16:21pm

re: #625 SanFranciscoZionist


Oh well. Now I know how the people who can't stand Obama feel.

That isn't true, you know.
There are reasons to loathe Palin.
There aren't comparable reasons to loathe Obama.
One might dislike him, one might dislike his policies, but that isn't ODS.
And people who can't stand Palin are not (usually) suffering from PDS.

634 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:17:08pm

re: #632 iceweasel

I loathe Palin. Oh, I never liked her, and I hated what she did (energising a faux-populist movement, being McCain's hitwoman, basically)-- but I didn't start to loathe her until she tossed over the governorship.
She's nothing but an opportunist, and she's profundly stupid. Let her be a newscaster in Bumfuck America (which is what she always wanted anyway) and I'll never think of her again.
Sadly, we're saddled with her.

We are saddled with her. This is most unfortunate. Yet some people will ask, "why are you so focused on her?" Yet there she is on almost any given day with here stupid folksy wisdom. In fact, she's almost an insult to folksy wisdom. She does not even come close to having any wisdom or folksy character.

Sarah Palin is like the retarded John Galt. Which isn't saying much.

635 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:20:34pm

re: #634 Gus 802

here her stupid folksy wisdom...

I would re-elect Nixon before voting for Palin.

636 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:21:13pm

re: #631 stevemcg

Bad news about the defensive medicine thing. The reason my wife orfders MRI's on heel spurs (which you practically dx over the phone) is that the guy who runs the MRI center is buddies with the president of the medical staff. Now if you aren't referring enough body parts to the scanner the president gets a complaint from his buddy and then you get a call from the president. You don't want that call. So, are you going to blame it on your medical staff president or are you just going to say that you have to be defensive. BTW, the prez is also good friends with the ultrasound guy, and the PT guy, and so on.

So there is waste from sources in addition to just defensive medicine. Doesn't mean it's not an added cost. I could tell you about my childhood family dentist who explains that he refuses to accept HMO insurance plans--only accepting plans that place no restrictions on choice of Dentists--due entirely to the burden insurance companies would place on his practice. He serves mostly middle class families--nothing extravegant or unusual about him. Except he costs about 1/2 as much as the dentists cost under HMOs. Seems like under my current plan, I get a lot more x-rays for no apparent reason, lots of suggestions that I should remove wisdom teeth that are not impacted nor have they changed/moved in 20 years. Or I could tell you about my sister-in-law who grates under the unnecessary procedures she's forced to do simply because her hospital is afraid of getting sued.

637 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:22:05pm

re: #635 Gus 802

here her stupid folksy wisdom...

I would re-elect Nixon before voting for Palin.

But Nixon is a RINO!!!

// I read that the other day on the internet so it must be true.

638 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:25:23pm

re: #634 Gus 802

We are saddled with her. This is most unfortunate. Yet some people will ask, "why are you so focused on her?" Yet there she is on almost any given day with here stupid folksy wisdom. In fact, she's almost an insult to folksy wisdom. She does not even come close to having any wisdom or folksy character.

Sarah Palin is like the retarded John Galt. Which isn't saying much.

Brilliant. :)
In fact I plan to steal the phrase 'retarded John Galt' in future. I will h/t you of course.

Palin is just STUPID. She is profoundly stupid. Oh, people on the left always said Bush was 'dumb'-- but he wasn't. Intellectually incurious, yes. But not dumb.
Palin is fucking stupid. And her stupid fans yowl loudest about their need to see Obama's birth certificate, and they want his columbia transcripts, his harvard law transcripts, his SAT scores, and they are oh-so-convinced that this former lecturer at UChi (who turned down multiple offers of tenure) is 'stupid' and an 'affirmative action candidate'--- but do they want to see Saint Sarah's transcripts from any of the five Grifter Universities she attended? Do they care about that? What would they say if 'lefties' demanded to see the shitty, shitty papers she doubtless 'wrote' in her lackluster, chequered 'academic' career?

ELLEETIST!

639 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:26:07pm

re: #637 Jadespring

But Nixon is a RINO!!!

// I read that the other day on the internet so it must be true.

He shook hands with Mao!1111!!

Yeah, the W.I.N.G.N.U.T.S hate a lot of people. Most of them try to disavow Nixon for obvious reasons. They seem to ignore Ronald Reagan's South Africa policy.

640 Cheechako  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:27:53pm

re: #525 BryanS

Not really. Did you know, for instance, that much of Alaskan oil goes to Asian countries and not to US markets? Why? Because if international commerce--oil finds the most efficient way to a market that demands it. So we sell that oil to foreigners, and buy other oil that is less expensive to hit other parts of our market. Since oil is fungible, our drilling for oil will just end up meeting the vast increased demands for oil from China. It will just be yet another way we become their bitch.


WRONG!!11!!
By law, Alaska oil can only be transported to the U.S.

641 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:29:20pm

re: #639 Gus 802

He shook hands with Mao!1111!!

Yeah, the W.I.N.G.N.U.T.S hate a lot of people. Most of them try to disavow Nixon for obvious reasons. They seem to ignore Ronald Reagan's South Africa policy.

I dunno with the way things are going with those folks I think even Reagan will get RINO status eventually. I think most pre 2008ish Republicans will.

// I'm only being semi sarcastic here

642 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:30:27pm

re: #638 iceweasel

Brilliant. :)
In fact I plan to steal the phrase 'retarded John Galt' in future. I will h/t you of course.

Palin is just STUPID. She is profoundly stupid. Oh, people on the left always said Bush was 'dumb'-- but he wasn't. Intellectually incurious, yes. But not dumb.
Palin is fucking stupid. And her stupid fans yowl loudest about their need to see Obama's birth certificate, and they want his columbia transcripts, his harvard law transcripts, his SAT scores, and they are oh-so-convinced that this former lecturer at UChi (who turned down multiple offers of tenure) is 'stupid' and an 'affirmative action candidate'--- but do they want to see Saint Sarah's transcripts from any of the five Grifter Universities she attended? Do they care about that? What would they say if 'lefties' demanded to see the shitty, shitty papers she doubtless 'wrote' in her lackluster, chequered 'academic' career?

ELLEETIST!

Elitist is the buzzword of the moron of the day. All you have to say is "lefty." I've even seen people call Obama a left wing radical here. Apparently, they've never really seen a true radical left winger.

643 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:30:50pm

re: #641 Jadespring

I dunno with the way things are going with those folks I think even Reagan will get RINO status eventually. I think most pre 2008ish Republicans will.

// I'm only being semi sarcastic here

Reagan would be a Blue Dog Dem now. The current GOP would never, ever, run him. Or even like him.

644 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:32:00pm

re: #641 Jadespring

I dunno with the way things are going with those folks I think even Reagan will get RINO status eventually. I think most pre 2008ish Republicans will.

// I'm only being semi sarcastic here

First immigrant amnesty program was under Reagan. A lot of denial comes with that.

645 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:36:02pm

re: #640 Cheechako

WRONG!!11!!
By law, Alaska oil can only be transported to the U.S.


You appear to be correct--in part. As explained here:

[Link: ncseonline.org...]

There is a law that was passed in 2000 that baned exports of crude, but not other petroleum products. So it appears Alaskan oil does still get sold overseas--after refining.

646 stevemcg  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:36:50pm

re: #152 BryanS

My wife isn't on any HMO's either. Makes life a lot simpler. She also has NEVER had the slightest pressure to practice defensively. Around here the philosophy is that if you have symptoms that a test can diagnose, and the insurance company is willing, put 'em in the tube, zap 'em, stick 'em, whatever. I'm just telling you from a unique position (and I can't be more specific, sorry) that defensive medicine is overplayed. (BTW, you think maybe the insurers have a stake in ordering fewer diagnostic tests?) Again, I refer you to the risk management program. It's all about documentation and HIPAA laws. Very little medicine involved. Tort reform advocates seem to think it's an easy cure (sorry, make that fix). Anyway, gotta split.

647 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:38:58pm

re: #644 Gus 802

yes.

Also -- can you check your twitter acct? I have something cool to send you and would like your input on. Heh. It's a Jimmah-Ice work in progress.

648 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:40:24pm

re: #647 iceweasel

yes.

Also -- can you check your twitter acct? I have something cool to send you and would like your input on. Heh. It's a Jimmah-Ice work in progress.

OK, there now.

649 BryanS  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:42:45pm

re: #646 stevemcg

Agreed that tort reform is not the cure--it would help modestly, though.

Night.

650 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:43:22pm

re: #648 Gus 802

OK, there now.

Sent. Crank it!

651 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:43:29pm

re: #643 iceweasel

Reagan would be a Blue Dog Dem now. The current GOP would never, ever, run him. Or even like him.

Doesn't stop the rabid wingnuts from holding him up as their gold standard to distract from their current stench...sort of like political Three-Card Monte.

652 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:46:22pm

re: #650 iceweasel

Sent. Crank it!

Monarhy!

653 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:50:44pm

re: #652 Gus 802

Monarhy!

haha-- yes. We had you in mind in scripting that bit. :-)

654 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:51:44pm

re: #653 iceweasel

haha-- yes. We had you in mind in scripting that bit. :-)

Coming up next! VDH and his paranoia about Muslims! ;)

655 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:56:27pm

re: #654 Gus 802

Coming up next! VDH and his paranoia about Muslims! ;)

Ah yes, Victorius Davidus Hanopolus-- tool.

656 Gus  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:57:10pm

re: #655 iceweasel

Ah yes, Victorius Davidus Hanopolus-- tool.

Another Wingnut EGO! ;)

657 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:58:46pm

re: #656 Gus 802

Another Wingnut EGO! ;)

Ego ballet was pretty awesome, btw. :)

Yeah. Freetoken and I have talked a bit about ole VDH. He's a sad case now.

658 Cheechako  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:00:05am

re: #632 iceweasel

I loathe Palin. Oh, I never liked her, and I hated what she did (energising a faux-populist movement, being McCain's hitwoman, basically)-- but I didn't start to loathe her until she tossed over the governorship.
She's nothing but an opportunist, and she's profundly stupid. Let her be a newscaster in Bumfuck America (which is what she always wanted anyway) and I'll never think of her again.
Sadly, we're saddled with her.

/Don't expect an invitation to go fishing in Alaska.

659 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:00:24am

re: #657 iceweasel

Ego ballet was pretty awesome, btw. :)

Yeah. Freetoken and I have talked a bit about ole VDH. He's a sad case now.

They all are. More people die from drunk driving accidents then they do from Islamic Jihad. It's just another case of "plane crash syndrome" for these folks.

660 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:03:05am

re: #658 Cheechako

/Don't expect an invitation to go fishing in Alaska.

I could get one from a few other people in AL-ASS-KA, without needing one from Wailin' Palin.
Lots of filthy evil progressive bloggers in Alasska. ;)

661 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:09:48am

re: #659 Gus 802

They all are. More people die from drunk driving accidents then they do from Islamic Jihad. It's just another case of "plane crash syndrome" for these folks.

Right, right-- the terrorists will kill us all, before normal plane crashes would, or lightening, or drunk driving. hey, check your twitter!

662 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:09:55am

re: #657 iceweasel

Ego ballet was pretty awesome, btw. :)

Yeah. Freetoken and I have talked a bit about ole VDH. He's a sad case now.

Night Ice. Hitting the hay here. Check your Tweets tomorrow.

663 Cheechako  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:10:40am

re: #645 BryanS

You appear to be correct--in part. As explained here:

[Link: ncseonline.org...]

There is a law that was passed in 2000 that baned exports of crude, but not other petroleum products. So it appears Alaskan oil does still get sold overseas--after refining.


That report is outdated. Alaska has 2 refineries which produce gas, diesel, and jet fuel from Alaskan oil. The rest of the crude is shipped to refineries in Washington and California. The WA and CA refineries produce products for use in the Western states.

664 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:11:03am

re: #661 iceweasel

Right, right-- the terrorists will kill us all, before normal plane crashes would, or lightening, or drunk driving. hey, check your twitter!

Just did. We'll talk later Ice. Chau!

665 Cheechako  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:17:43am

re: #660 iceweasel

I could get one from a few other people in AL-ASS-KA, without needing one from Wailin' Palin.
Lots of filthy evil progressive bloggers in Alasska. ;)


Yah, we have our share of vindictive people up here. And they all want their share of the Permanent Fund which Palin substantially increased with her increase in taxes on the oil companies.

666 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:01:58am

re: #658 Cheechako

/Don't expect an invitation to go fishing in Alaska.

Hey, palin's popularity in Alaska now? Not quite what it once was. [Link: politicalwire.com...]


Sorry, champ, us dirty fucking hippies will still get to visit without being burned at the stake. ;-)

667 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:40:12am

Clean? And where does the waste go?

668 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:46:55am

re: #628 Gus 802

I forgot if Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert did a short skit on even corporations being allowed to get married. Even insolvent and unethical corporations.

Frankly, I find it astonishing that gays are still considered second class citizens in this country. We need a Federal law granting gay marriage once and for all. That way we can also stop listening to idiots like Carrie Prejan talk amongst other things.

Well the people of California have a challenge against Prop 8 in the works that may be the Gay version of Loving V Virginia....

Of course I hate HATE to think that the case might end up being decided by the Supreme court members views on gays rather than on the strength of the argument presented.......

669 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:47:53am

re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist

I flat-out think that it's a bad idea to allow people to marry before, say, sixteen, under any circumstances. And I'd say eighteen, if I had my druthers.

Actually, I'd say twenty-one, if I really had my druthers.

If you make a difference between the age its legal for people to have sex, and the age its legal to get married at you might as well be announcing to the world you support fornication.....

670 middy  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:21:56am

re: #667 000G

Clean? And where does the waste go?

It can be reprocessed, and/or used in a breeder reactor, and/or buried in reinforced concrete bunkers deep under a desert mountain (Yucca mountain).

671 Sacred Plants  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:35:08am

Will Obama betray the Timbisha Shoshone?

672 Bob Levin  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:20:45am

This is a good move. Now repeat this kind of move over and over, with different industries and different technologies, and you'll have yourself an economic recovery.

673 bosforus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:22:51am
Coming Soon: More Nuclear Power Plants

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

674 right_wing2  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:55:33am

Amazing. Something I actually agree with Obama on- nuclear power. And I'll give him credit for taking out the terror leader the other day.

675 pnw_pirate  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 10:22:22am

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

Perhaps we should build some armored trains to transport the stuff. Have the waste trucks accompanied by gun cars topped with M2 Bradley turrets.

/Sorry, but I'm an armored train fan.

Who needs an armored train when you've got the OST?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Okay, okay, I need an armored train...

676 jaydub  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:09:37pm

Its...about...goddamn...time

677 badger1  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 6:15:55am

In Wisconsin we have state laws against the permitting and construction of nuclear plants. I imagine a number of other states also have such 1970s era laws on their books as well.

I think it is unlikely that this will spur the needed construction. It is, however a step in te right direction.

678 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 6:27:18am

re: #670 middy

It can be reprocessed, and/or used in a breeder reactor, and/or buried in reinforced concrete bunkers deep under a desert mountain (Yucca mountain).

Yeah.... I heard that Yucca thing was working out really well..

///


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