The Mount Vernon Statement

Politics • Views: 4,448

Today’s manifesto for the new conservatism: The Mount Vernon Statement, signed by a who’s who of right and far right figures.

Including Richard Viguerie. Right Wing Watch points out that just a couple of days ago, Viguerie told the Washington Times:

“This is embarrassing,” activist and longtime direct-mail advertiser Richard Viguerie told The Washington Times. “If the people in the leadership of the conservative movement are going to put out pablum like this, the tea party people are going to make them seem irrelevant. And the tea party people are going to march to the forefront.”

In a dig at current and former Republican congressional leaders whom many blame for betraying conservative principles of limited government and reduced spending, Mr. Viguerie added, “This is almost as if the movements leaders were taken over by Tom DeLay and John Boehner.”

That’s pretty accurate; the statement is bland stuff, a watered down version of the usual “culture war” dogma. The only noteworthy part is that the document seems to be trying to refrain from stating outright the more radical agendas of the religious faction, represented in the signers by Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council. (And it contains a very obvious typo, by the way; none of these leading lights of conservative intellectualism noticed that ‘selfevident’ isn’t a word.)

However, two days later Viguerie is singing a different tune:

Among those in attendance will be Richard Viguerie, the chairman of Conservative HQ.com, who believes the conservative movement “got seriously off track during the big government days of George Bush, Karl Rove and Tom DeLay.” This document, Viguerie says, is designed to unite conservatives.

“This is an attempt to draft a document that conservatives — whether they’re Tea Party conservatives or social or economic or foreign policy conservatives — can get behind and begin the process of reclaiming the Republican Party for small-government conservatives,” Viguerie explains.

I do like the WordPress parchment theme, and the Edwardian Script font they used for the signatures, though. Gives it that authentic 1776 feeling.

Jump to bottom

435 comments
1 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:39:54am
This is an attempt to draft a document that conservatives — whether they’re Tea Party conservatives or social or economic or foreign policy conservatives — can get behind and begin the process of reclaiming the Republican Party for small-government conservatives,

I.E. we're trying to get a bland message out there so we can hide our nutballs behind it, give them a wink and a nod, but still get their money and votes.

2 Jaerik  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:39:57am

Their manifesto makes constant reference to the Constitution and 1776, and the importance of looking back to history and the founding fathers as a guidepost for how to respond to current events.

Which is fine, but evidently no one told these self-proclaimed history buffs that the Constitution wasn't written in 1776.

3 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:40:16am

The text of the thing:

Constitutional Conservatism: A Statement for the 21st Century

We recommit ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding. Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.
These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.

Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant.

Some insist that America must change, cast off the old and put on the new. But where would this lead — forward or backward, up or down? Isn’t this idea of change an empty promise or even a dangerous deception?

The change we urgently need, a change consistent with the American ideal, is not movement away from but toward our founding principles. At this important time, we need a restatement of Constitutional conservatism grounded in the priceless principle of ordered liberty articulated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

The conservatism of the Declaration asserts self-evident truths based on the laws of nature and nature’s God. It defends life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It traces authority to the consent of the governed. It recognizes man’s self-interest but also his capacity for virtue.

The conservatism of the Constitution limits government’s powers but ensures that government performs its proper job effectively. It refines popular will through the filter of representation. It provides checks and balances through the several branches of government and a federal republic.

A Constitutional conservatism unites all conservatives through the natural fusion provided by American principles. It reminds economic conservatives that morality is essential to limited government, social conservatives that unlimited government is a threat to moral self-government, and national security conservatives that energetic but responsible government is the key to America’s safety and leadership role in the world.

A Constitutional conservatism based on first principles provides the framework for a consistent and meaningful policy agenda.

* It applies the principle of limited government based on the
rule of law to every proposal.
* It honors the central place of individual liberty in American
politics and life.
* It encourages free enterprise, the individual entrepreneur, and
economic reforms grounded in market solutions.
* It supports America’s national interest in advancing freedom
and opposing tyranny in the world and prudently considers what we can and should do to that end.
* It informs conservatism’s firm defense of family, neighborhood,
community, and faith.

If we are to succeed in the critical political and policy battles ahead, we must be certain of our purpose.

We must begin by retaking and resolutely defending the high ground of America’s founding principles.

February 17, 2010

4 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:42:00am

Some of these names were underneath the "sign the petition" part.

Glenn Beck, Raped, Me
fuck you, columbia, sc Lick MyHairyBalls, Austin, Tx
GoFuckYourselfNutjobs, Lafayette, Louisiana
Heywood Jablowme, Moose Scrotum, Montana

I gotta stop there. My side hurts.

5 Republican  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:43:45am

Norquist was all over tea party radio here in STL a month ago, pushing an independent third-party agenda with the backing of buddies like O'Keefe and Breitbart. Sometimes these peeps seem more interested in pulling in money and support for the latest political trends than sticking to a particular agenda... I'm beginning to question their sincerity.

6 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:44:58am

Wow...they all have the same hand-writing...here are the signers without the windows script font:


Edwin Meese, former U.S. Attorney General under President Reagan

Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women for America

Edwin Feulner, Jr., president of the Heritage Foundation

Lee Edwards, Distinguished Fellow in Conservative Thought at the Heritage Foundation, was present at the Sharon Statement signing.

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council and fuckwad

Becky Norton Dunlop, president of the Council for National Policy

Brent Bozell, president of the Media Research Center

Alfred Regnery, publisher of the American Spectator

David Keene, president of the American Conservative Union

David McIntosh, co-founder of the Federalist Society

T. Kenneth Cribb, former domestic policy adviser to President Reagan

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform and Abramoff buddy

William Wilson, President, Americans for Limited Government

Elaine Donnelly, Center for Military Readiness

Richard Viguerie, Chairman, ConservativeHQ.com

Kenneth Blackwell, Coalition for a Conservative Majority and publisher of 1.2 million Ohio social security numbers.

Colin Hanna, President, Let Freedom Ring

Kathryn J. Lopez, National Review

7 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:45:04am

re: #4 Cannadian Club Akbar

Some of these names were underneath the "sign the petition" part.

Glenn Beck, Raped, Me
fuck you, columbia, sc Lick MyHairyBalls, Austin, Tx
GoFuckYourselfNutjobs, Lafayette, Louisiana
Heywood Jablowme, Moose Scrotum, Montana

I gotta stop there. My side hurts.

Also signing;

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Tehran, Islamic Republic of Iran
Mo Lester, SeatOverThere, Florida
Burt Certifct, Where, HI

Ah, Internet, you never fail to bring a smile to my day!

8 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:45:25am

Nature abhors a vacuum, we've gotten no leadership from the left so the right is gearing up to fill the void. Whether they can come back from the elite abyss of the last decade remains to be seen but one thing is for sure, change is coming. :)

9 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:46:00am

I can get behind it.

10 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:46:07am

re: #4 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ha!

Wilma Fingerdoo, Palmer, MI

11 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:46:48am

re: #2 Jaerik

Their manifesto makes constant reference to the Constitution and 1776, and the importance of looking back to history and the founding fathers as a guidepost for how to respond to current events.

Which is fine, but evidently no one told these self-proclaimed history buffs that the Constitution wasn't written in 1776.

I assume they're referencing the Declaration of Independence but it's not written very well. Kinda blurs them together as if they're talking about the same thing.

12 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:47:44am

P.S. Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council gave a speech to the openly white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens in 2001. And when Perkins worked for Senator Woody Jenkins, he purchased a phone-bank list from former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke.

13 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:47:58am

re: #8 exelwood

Wow, you had to travel a long way to blame this on the left. Are you tired?

14 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:48:01am

re: #4 Cannadian Club Akbar

More...

Jack Mehoff, East Bugfart, Texas
Al Koholic, New York, NY

15 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:48:26am

re: #12 Charles

Someone brings up Byrd in 5,4,3,2,1...

16 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:48:27am

This is from the "About" page of the Mount Vernon Statement website:

In light of the challenges facing the country and the need for clarity in the age of Obama, The Mount Vernon Statement, modeled on the Sharon Statement issued on Sept. 11, 1960, is a defining statement of conservative beliefs, values and principles penned by a broad coalition of conservative leaders representing a wide spectrum of the movement including fiscal, social, cultural and national security conservatives.

Aren't "cultural conservatives" the ones who want to preserve a white majority?

17 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:49:04am

re: #11 Jadespring

I assume they're referencing the Declaration of Independence but it's not written very well. Kinda blurs them together as if they're talking about the same thing.

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL NO!"
"Germans?"
"Forget it, he's rolling."

18 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:49:35am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL NO!"
"Germans?"
"Forget it, he's rolling."

DING!!!

19 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:49:38am

The Sharon Statement, for comparison:

The Sharon Statement

Adopted in conference at Sharon, Connecticut, on 11 September 1960.

In this time of moral and political crises, it is the responsibility of the youth of America to affirm certain eternal truths.

We, as young conservatives, believe:

That foremost among the transcendent values is the individual's use of his God-given free will, whence derives his right to be free from the restrictions of arbitrary force;

That liberty is indivisible, and that political freedom cannot long exist without economic freedom;

That the purpose of government is to protect those freedoms through the preservation of internal order, the provision of national defense, and the administration of justice;

That when government ventures beyond these rightful functions, it accumulates power, which tends to diminish order and liberty;

That the Constitution of the United States is the best arrangement yet devised for empowering government to fulfill its proper role, while restraining it from the concentration and abuse of power;

That the genius of the Constitution- the division of powers- is summed up in the clause that reserves primacy to the several states, or to the people, in those spheres not specifically delegated to the Federal government;

That the market economy, allocating resources by the free play of supply and demand, is the single economic system compatible with the requirements of personal freedom and constitutional government, and that it is at the same time the most productive supplier of human needs;

That when government interferes with the work of the market economy, it tends to reduce the moral and physical strength of the nation; that when it takes from one man to bestow on another, it diminishes the incentive of the first, the integrity of the second, and the moral autonomy of both;

That we will be free only so long as the national sovereignty of the United States is secure; that history shows periods of freedom are rare, and can exist only when free citizens concertedly defend their rights against all enemies;

That the forces of international Communism are, at present, the greatest single threat to these liberties;

That the United States should stress victory over, rather than coexistance with, this menace; and

That American foreign policy must be judged by this criterion: does it serve the just interests of the United States?

20 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:50:12am

re: #15 Obdicut

Someone brings up Byrd in 5,4,3,2,1...

Funny you should mention that.

21 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:50:22am

re: #16 wrenchwench

This is from the "About" page of the Mount Vernon Statement website:

Aren't "cultural conservatives" the ones who want to preserve a white majority?

No, but those who do want to preserve a white majority - whatever the hell that means - sometimes claim to be cultural conservatives.

22 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:51:28am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL NO!"
"Germans?"
"Forget it, he's rolling."

Heh. I'm missing something here.... :D

Reference from something?

23 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:51:40am

re: #22 Jadespring

Heh. I'm missing something here... :D

Reference from something?

Animal House.

24 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:51:49am

re: #22 Jadespring

Heh. I'm missing something here... :D

Reference from something?

Animal House

25 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:51:53am

re: #22 Jadespring

Heh. I'm missing something here... :D

Reference from something?

Animal House.

26 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:52:06am

re: #13 Obdicut

Wow, you had to travel a long way to blame this on the left. Are you tired?

LOL, it wasn't that long a trip! I look East from here and all I see is left! WH, Senate, Congress. :)

27 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:52:49am

re: #21 Guanxi88

No, but those who do want to preserve a white majority - whatever the hell that means - sometimes claim to be cultural conservatives.

Are there others who also claim to be cultural conservatives?

28 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:53:26am

re: #27 wrenchwench

Are there others who also claim to be cultural conservatives?

Allan Bloom and the whole cadre of Right Straussians, among others.

29 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:53:35am

re: #8 exelwood

Nature abhors a vacuum, we've gotten no leadership from the left so the right is gearing up to fill the void. Whether they can come back from the elite abyss of the last decade remains to be seen but one thing is for sure, change is coming. :)

Sarah, do you even know what 'elite' means?

30 jaunte  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:54:21am

Fox News had Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council on this morning for a fairly long segment about the Mount Vernon Statement, and his organization's agenda was never mentioned.

31 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:54:28am

You know, this speach does kind of sound like a Tea Party speach:

Youtube Video
32 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:56:05am

re: #30 jaunte

Fox News had Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council on this morning for a fairly long segment about the Mount Vernon Statement, and his organization's agenda was never mentioned.

Yup. Smokescreen. They make a blanket statement, promote the more moderate elements they can put up behind it, make it sound like its something new, when in fact it just covers the same shit as before.

33 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:59:10am

re: #29 darthstar

Sarah, do you even know what 'elite' means?

Its like a regular lite, only the electronic version.

34 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:59:53am

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yup. Smokescreen. They make a blanket statement, promote the more moderate elements they can put up behind it, make it sound like its something new, when in fact it just covers the same shit as before.

Imagine how painful it must be to work at Fox news...

35 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 11:59:54am

Durn it. I'm out of TP. That means I need to go into town. Grrr... I thought there was more in the cupboard.

36 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:00:50pm

re: #29 darthstar

Sarah, do you even know what 'elite' means?

I'm sorry, have I hurt your feelings in some way? :)

37 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:01:00pm

re: #35 Jadespring

Durn it. I'm out of TP. That means I need to go into town. Grrr... I thought there was more in the cupboard.

I hate making that awkward run with my pants down.

38 Summer Seale  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:01:44pm

re: #33 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its like a regular lite, only the electronic version.

I favorited, updinged, and copied that to my quotes file on wave forever. =)

39 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:02:16pm

explain to me again how or why a fiscal conservative would want to associate with social conservatives?

40 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:02:49pm

re: #37 darthstar

I hate making that awkward run with my pants down.

For me it's going to be 15k in the snow. I gonna have to wrap a scarf around my ass.

41 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:03:15pm

re: #36 exelwood

I'm sorry, have I hurt your feelings in some way? :)

Yes. When someone says something like "elite abyss" as if it carries some kind of rhetorical merit on its own, it hurts. Mostly because I abhor writer-based prose, but also because I know that somewhere, a teacher failed to reach you.

42 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:04:16pm

re: #39 SpaceJesus

explain to me again how or why a fiscal conservative would want to associate with social conservatives?

Because we have to "In light of the challenges facing the country and the need for clarity in the age of Obama".

/

43 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:04:41pm

Off to lunch, BBS

44 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:05:24pm

re: #22 Jadespring

Heh. I'm missing something here... :D

Reference from something?

Yes.

Youtube Video
45 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:05:25pm

re: #41 darthstar

If you're hanging upsidedown the ivory tower might look like an abyss from that point of view.

/(sorta)

46 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:06:04pm

re: #42 wrenchwench

Because we have to "In light of the challenges facing the country and the need for clarity in the age of Obama".

/

hmmm.. pass.

47 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:06:20pm

None of these leading lights of conservative intellectualism noticed that 'selfevident' isn't a word?

48 Spider Mensch  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:08:44pm

re: #35 Jadespring

Durn it. I'm out of TP. That means I need to go into town. Grrr... I thought there was more in the cupboard.


why don't you wipe your ass with the cat?..oh, but then you'd have to run to town for band aids and iodine..my bad...

and the most disgusting thing about his post? he's sitting on the toilet as he posts here...someone need to align his priorities asap

49 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:09:07pm

re: #42 wrenchwench

Because we have to "In light of the challenges facing the country and the need for clarity in the age of Obama".

/

I thought he was a Leo...

But apparently he was born in the age of Aquarius rising...

50 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:09:30pm

"He (spacejesus) was sent over here as an agent provocateur. The same way KKKTrout was sent to Hot Air."

-stalker blog today

51 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:10:58pm

re: #47 Charles

Hyphens are tools of the devil. In fact, all orthography is suspect. I'm looking at you, ampersand.

52 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:11:01pm

re: #48 Spider Mensch

why don't you wipe your ass with the cat?..oh, but then you'd have to run to town for band aids and iodine..my bad...

and the most disgusting thing about his post? he's sitting on the toilet as he posts here...someone need to align his priorities asap

I'm female. That make it better or worse?

53 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:11:27pm

re: #50 SpaceJesus

I don't know what you are, man. You're just the cosmological savior.

54 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:11:37pm

re: #47 Charles

None of these leading lights of conservative intellectualism noticed that 'selfevident' isn't a word?

Quoth the raven, never more.

55 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:12:43pm

re: #47 Charles

None of these leading lights of conservative intellectualism noticed that 'selfevident' isn't a word?

Manifestoing is hard work. You can't expect them to proofread.

56 Spider Mensch  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:13:29pm

re: #52 Jadespring

I'm female. That make it better or worse?


probably worse, but I'll let you decide that one.. :)))

57 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:15:17pm

Okay...time to get a little work done before heading off to Sushi Sam's for lunch (best Sushi on the peninsula).

58 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:15:28pm

re: #55 darthstar

I thought only commies manifestoed. And proofreading is a politically correct meme of the literate elite grammar nazis trying to shoehorn the common folk into strait-laced thinking and obeying any and all rules, however minor.

And we have always been at war with those East Asia furriners...

///

59 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:15:39pm

re: #51 Obdicut

Hyphens are tools of the devil. In fact, all orthography is suspect. I'm looking at you, ampersand.

The Germans have a much better grip on this.

60 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:15:53pm

You've gotta admit - the typo aside - they've done a very good job of concealing their obvious intent. Any dog-whistles in the thing are so very high-pitched as to be inaudible to all but the most discerning ears.

61 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:16:11pm

Anyways, TP troubles aside, the more I read this statement the more interesting it gets. You can really see the effort being made to bring different factions together by just the way things are phrased. Lots of leeway to read into some statements that don't really say anything specific but sound like they're saying something specific. The reader or signer just adds there own specifics.

A lot of policy and principles statements are like that though, especially ones that are meant to try to unite people who may hold different viewpoints on things.

62 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:17:15pm

I don't know how well Larison goes over here since he posts at a Buchanan site. But I ran across this Larison quote regarding the statement at Balloon Juice:

I cannot object to the statement that the “federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant.” This is true. However, I have no idea why the organizers of this gathering think that anyone will believe their professions of constitutionalism after enabling or acquiescing in some of the most grotesque violations of constitutional republican government in the last forty years. If constitutional conservatism means anything, it has to mean that the executive branch does not have wide, sweeping, inherent powers derived from the President’s (temporary) military role. It has to mean that all these conservatives will start arguing that the President cannot wage wars on his own authority, and they will have to argue this no matter who occupies the Oval Office. It has to mean unwavering conservative hostility to the mistreatment of detainees, and it has to mean that conservatives cannot accept the detention of suspects without charge, access to counsel or recourse to some form of judicial oversight. Obviously, constitutional conservatives could in no way tolerate or overlook policies of indefinite detention or the abuse of detainees. They would have to drive out the authoritarians among them, and rediscover a long-lost, healthy suspicion of concentrated power, especially power concentrated in the hands of the executive.
Until we see these basic demonstrations of fidelity to constitutional principle from the would-be constitutional conservatives of this Mount Vernon meeting, we should assume that this is little more than a new ruse designed to rile up activists and donors during a Democratic administration in order to breathe new life into a moribund and bankrupt movement.

Link

63 keloyd  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:17:52pm

IIRC, "self evident" was the term that replaced the original, "sacred and undeniable", and by IIRC I mean I half-remembered and googled it.

It looks the secular progressive unwashed homosexual dope smoking hippies of the culture war have deep roots. "Self evident" sounds to me like part of the seekrit deist conspiracy to take baby Jesus out of the Constitution.

64 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:20:08pm

Okay...back for a sec...looks like they're scrubbing the site already:

Error 500 - Internal server error

An internal server error has occured!
Please try again later.


[Link: www.themountvernonstatement.com...]

65 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:22:13pm

re: #64 darthstar

Okay...back for a sec...looks like they're scrubbing the site already:


[Link: www.themountvernonstatement.com...]

No 500 error for me. Must have a hiccupy database. Volume has quintupled since this LGF post went up

66 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:22:18pm

re: #64 darthstar

Okay...back for a sec...looks like they're scrubbing the site already:


[Link: www.themountvernonstatement.com...]

Yep, typo fixed, it would appear

67 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:22:19pm

re: #64 darthstar

Okay...back for a sec...looks like they're scrubbing the site already:


[Link: www.themountvernonstatement.com...]

Yep...it's scrubbed...though Jeff Lebowski's still there, as is Mike Hunt, Bumblephuc, AK

68 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:23:19pm

The Mount Vernon Statement

Constitutional Conservatism: A Statement for the 21st Century

"Wasn't the 18th Century kinda cool? Let's go back to it."

69 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:23:31pm

Remember this statement?

70 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:23:32pm

re: #67 darthstar

Yep...it's scrubbed...though Jeff Lebowski's still there, as is Mike Hunt, Bumblephuc, AK

Worked for me as well.

71 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:24:23pm
* It applies the principle of limited government based on the
rule of law to every proposal.

Unless a President we like (IE...somebody like George W Bush) wants to break the law and walk over the Constitution because he can find some hack lawyers in the DOJ who say that you can cut the testicles off a kid if that will make his father talk in interrogations and that might save lives...


* It honors the central place of individual liberty in American
politics and life.

Unless you are a GLBT person or a woman or anybody from Latin America or belong to a religion we don't like. If so, too bad. Ghey Secks is un-American, Satanic, causes earthquakes and probably came from a queer country like France, anyway. Women are the help-meets of men and need to learn their biblical place, so it's time to do it. Latin Americans need to go back to the place where they belong: mowing the lawn or picking fruit until they can be deported in an orderly manner.


* It encourages free enterprise, the individual entrepreneur, and
economic reforms grounded in market solutions.

Because the investor class is the most important class in America, and don't ever forget it. All of us may be "equal", but some of us are a helluva lot more equal than the others...

Also, free enterprise means free to get government funds to cover those 250 to 1 leveraged bank investments and 10 million dollar bonuses for screw ups who almost sank the economy. After all, free enterprise doesn't come for free...


* It supports America’s national interest in advancing freedom
and opposing tyranny in the world and prudently considers what we can and should do to that end.

Kick their ass and take the gas. Unless it's a good religious wacko tyranny we like. Places like Saudi Arabia.


* It informs conservatism’s firm defense of family, neighborhood,
community, and faith.

My Christian beliefs in my ability to have three divorces are more important than whatever your religious beliefs are, because we all know that the division of church and state is a liberal lie, and I need the coercive power of the State to shove my beliefs on everybody else because I know damned good and well that I am right and all of you are wrong. All of you homos who want sodomic marriage are a pox on my family and make me feel worthless and unempowered in my relationship...somehow. So I need to defend my suddenly less meaningful marriage from all of you Godless Sodomites and liberal post modernist university profs who are such a threat to 4,000 years of Western Civilization.


Yep.

72 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:24:26pm

re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar

Worked for me as well.

But all the cute names are gone, at least the ones they noticed.

73 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:24:36pm

...and the cranky old man in the powdered wig yells:

"Get off my farm!"

74 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:24:48pm

re: #47 Charles

None of these leading lights of conservative intellectualism noticed that 'selfevident' isn't a word?

Heh!

75 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:25:04pm

re: #67 darthstar

I wonder how Mike is doing these days.

76 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:25:26pm

re: #71 celticdragon

Unless a President we like (IE...somebody like George W Bush) wants to break the law and walk over the Constitution because he can find some hack lawyers in the DOJ who say that you can cut the testicles off a kid if that will make his father talk in interrogations and that might save lives...

Wait, what?

77 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:25:36pm

re: #69 MandyManners

Remember this statement?

Wow, that's a lot of words

78 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:27:02pm

re: #72 darthstar

But all the cute names are gone, at least the ones they noticed.

The ones I posted earlier? Fuckers.

79 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:27:04pm

re: #62 trendsurfer

I don't know how well Larison goes over here since he posts at a Buchanan site. But I ran across this Larison quote regarding the statement at Balloon Juice:
Link

I think Larison is a supporter of racists, and an anti-war nut. I would think he'd get along with the tea partiers and hate the neocons. The Mt. Vernon Statement seems to be trying to appeal to the tea partiers without pissing off the neocons too much. Doesn't go anti-interventionist enough for Larison. (Note: my familiarity with Larison is recent and not deep.)

80 avanti  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:27:31pm

re: #50 SpaceJesus

"He (spacejesus) was sent over here as an agent provocateur. The same way KKKTrout was sent to Hot Air."

-stalker blog today

Did you notice they dedicated a thread to Walter's piece on the AGW data debate ?

81 webevintage  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:28:05pm

re: #48 Spider Mensch

why don't you wipe your ass with the cat?


Ceiling Cat Sez

Y HALO THAR PLZ DOAN TELL PEEPS 2 WIPE THEIR BUTTS WIF TEH KATS OR IM GONNA HAS 2 SEND BASEMENT KAT 2 VISIT

82 Neutral President  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:28:11pm

re: #76 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait, what?

Sometimes they get a little too comfortable around here and let their BDS show.

83 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:28:23pm

re: #50 SpaceJesus

"He (spacejesus) was sent over here as an agent provocateur. The same way KKKTrout was sent to Hot Air."

-stalker blog today

They call him KKKTrout? That's not cool

84 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:30:10pm

re: #83 cliffster

They call him KKKTrout? That's not cool

It's a bit like the pot calling the cotton ball black.

85 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:30:27pm

re: #83 cliffster

I don't think cool is really their métier.

86 Neutral President  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:30:52pm

re: #83 cliffster

They call him KKKTrout? That's not cool

Fauxtrage. They pretend like he actually is a racist to divert attention from their own nonsense.

87 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:31:25pm

re: #69 MandyManners

Remember this statement?

I was taught about it in college, and urged to believe that it was an important document of American history.

88 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:32:48pm

re: #76 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait, what?

I was mocking the notion that the rule of law means anything to people who believe that the President can set aside the law whenever he feels like it. There are detailed and numerous statements from "conservatives" (I don't believe there is anything at all conservative about them, but that is what they call themselves) supporting the incredibly radical notion that the President can act in a nearly dictatorial fashion in a "time of War" even if a war is not declared by Congress, and also has the power to arrest Americans and hold them without charge or review, monitor their private communications, limit tyheir free expression and set aside other laws without judicial oversight or Congressional approval.

I call that radicalism. It is certainly not conservative.

google "John Yoo Testicles" for a real treat on what a former DOJ lawyer thinks the President can do to the child of a suspected terrorist...

89 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:34:16pm

re: #88 celticdragon


google "John Yoo Testicles"...

Not even if you paid me.

90 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:36:56pm

re: #79 wrenchwench

I think Larison is a supporter of racists

I only hear from him when he's quoted at Balloon Juice. My strike against him: he's a religious social con. :) Otherwise, what I've read of his seems to be well thought out. Posting on Buchanan's site...well, that enough to ask questions regarding what you said.

91 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:37:28pm

re: #33 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its like a regular lite, only the electronic version.

Please be aware that I am going to blatantly plagiarize this at any opportunity. Can't wait to pick up my first virtual six-pack of Bud-E-Lite.

92 simoom  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:39:03pm
I do like the WordPress parchment theme, and the Edwardian Script font they used for the signatures, though. Gives it that authentic 1776 feeling.

Heh, that jumped out at me too. An aged parchment background makes just about anything so much more authoritative and credible ///.

93 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:39:24pm

re: #90 trendsurfer

I only hear from him when he's quoted at Balloon Juice. My strike against him: he's a religious social con. :) Otherwise, what I've read of his seems to be well thought out. Posting on Buchanan's site...well, that enough to ask questions regarding what you said.

And here's an answer to the questions. This is from the left column on his blog:

Conservative Magazines & Recommended Sites

* @TAC
* Chronicles
* Culture11
* First Principles
* Front Porch Republic
* Intercollegiate Studies Institute
* LewRockwell.com
* Ron Paul 2008
* Sobran’s
* Taki’s Magazine
* The American Cause
* The American Conservative
* The American Scene
* The League of the South
* The New Atlantis
* The New Pantagruel
* The Russell Kirk Center
* The Spectator
* The Week
* VDare

Whole lotta sickening racists there....

94 Baier  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:39:28pm

re: #71 celticdragon

When did George Bush approve cutting off someone's testicles? I must be reading the wrong newspapers.

95 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:39:39pm

re: #92 simoom

Heh, that jumped out at me too. An aged parchment background makes just about anything so much more authoritative and credible ///.

True, true...

96 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:41:07pm

re: #52 Jadespring

I'm female. That make it better or worse?

At least you did not let us know you are out of tampons.

/I'm female too.

97 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:41:09pm

re: #93 wrenchwench

Whole lotta sickening racists there...

VDare?

Uh oh.

Damn. I have generally like Larison.

98 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:41:22pm

re: #94 Baier

When did George Bush approve cutting off someone's testicles? I must be reading the wrong newspapers.

The Dragon didn't say that. Try again.

99 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:41:46pm

I just received a press release that "Accuracy in Media" (hah!), one of the signers of the Mt. Vernon statement in the person of Brent Bozell, is giving their Reed Irvine Accuracy in Media Award at CPAC to -- Andrew Breitbart and denial industry shill Marc Morano. Good grief.

“This country is indebted to Andrew Breitbart and Marc Morano for uncovering two of the most under-reported stories of 2009: corruption at ACORN and the ClimateGate scandal. I am thrilled to recognize Andrew Breitbart’s groundbreaking investigation into rampant corruption at the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, and Marc Morano’s excellent reporting on the ClimateGate scandal that exposed the politicized science behind claims that the science is settled on global warming,” said Don Irvine, chairman of Accuracy in Media.

100 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:42:00pm

re: #92 simoom

Heh, that jumped out at me too. An aged parchment background makes just about anything so much more authoritative and credible ///.

What they need is a lime green background with bright red text, maybe some animated GIFs and a midi file of the Star Spangled Banner to play when you look at the page.

101 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:42:07pm

re: #19 Guanxi88

Amazingly enough, I never heard of that one, only the one of lefty fame. Wonder why?

/eyeroll

102 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:42:50pm

re: #97 celticdragon

VDare?

Uh oh.

Damn. I have generally like Larison.

You mean Sobran, Taki and LewRockwell didn't give you enough of a clue?

103 blueraven  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:43:27pm

re: #79 wrenchwench

I like Larison and read his columns often. But yes, the fact that he writes for that magazine, is a contradiction for me.

re: #62 trendsurfer

Where do you get that he supports racism? I must admit I have not read him for that long, but have never seen evidence of that. Could you elaborate?

104 Baier  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:43:36pm

re: #98 Olsonist

The Dragon didn't say that. Try again.

"The Dragon"?
Holy shit, is this LGF?
Well, "The Dragon" seems to think that he would have if he could have gotten away with it.

105 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:44:19pm

re: #99 Charles

I just received a press release that "Accuracy in Media" (hah!), one of the signers of the Mt. Vernon statement in the person of Brent Bozell, is giving their Reed Irvine Accuracy in Media Award at CPAC to -- Andrew Breitbart and denial industry shill Marc Morano. Good grief.

Can they get Jason Blair and Stephen Glass to present it to him?

106 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:44:54pm

re: #102 Alouette

Or League of the South. I was familiar with their defenders back when I read US Civil War related UseNet groups. Heavy overlap from SCV members over into that group (at least from the consistent posters where I was reading.)

107 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:45:35pm

re: #98 Olsonist

The Dragon didn't say that. Try again.

Um...

re: #71 celticdragon

Unless a President we like (IE...somebody like George W Bush) wants to break the law and walk over the Constitution because he can find some hack lawyers in the DOJ who say that you can cut the testicles off a kid if that will make his father talk in interrogations and that might save lives...

Just sayin'.

108 Baier  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:46:07pm

re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth

Just sayin'.

"The Dragon" is not to be trifled with.

109 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:46:29pm

re: #41 darthstar

Yes. When someone says something like "elite abyss" as if it carries some kind of rhetorical merit on its own, it hurts. Mostly because I abhor writer-based prose, but also because I know that somewhere, a teacher failed to reach you.

I often wonder if there are separate languages for left and right. I usually muddle through when liberals speak but there seems to be a disconnect many times when speaking where liberals gather.

I would think most conservatives would recognize the use of that phrase to indicate the belief that our government is populated with self styled elites who may be "of the people" but certainly haven't governed "for the people" in recent decades. Left and right are so beholden to special interests that any good done for the country is incidental to accomplishing the goals of their masters.

Elite abyss in this instance means a pull back from the destructive governance we've experienced not only at the hands of Obama and the congressional Democrats since '06 but also the Republican president congresses who lost their way as well.

110 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:46:44pm

re: #83 cliffster

They call him KKKTrout? That's not cool

yeah, they're pretty much insane in case nobody has noticed this

111 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:46:46pm

re: #108 Baier

"The Dragon" is not to be trifled with.

I watched "Enter the Dragon" last night.

112 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:48:19pm

re: #109 exelwood

I usually muddle through when liberals speak but there seems to be a disconnect many times when speaking where liberals gather.

"Where liberals gather"?

You're kind of a parody of yourself.

So your claim, if I get it right, is that this Mount Vernon document is aimed equally at everyone currently in congress-- those who you defined as the 'elite'?

113 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:48:47pm

re: #83 cliffster

They call him KKKTrout? That's not cool

A favorite of theirs for awhile now.
Not cool at all.
In fact, childish and immature and has the flavor of wah-wah-wah! about it, imo.

114 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:50:06pm

re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth

Just sayin'.

The point of finding some hack like John Yoo to manufacture an expansive view of Presidential powers out of thin air was deniability. W probably never heard of the torture discussions. He was above that. It was enough to have Yoo provide an opinion that covered his ass. Then his minions could do as they pleased.

115 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:50:32pm

re: #103 blueraven


See # 93.

116 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:51:02pm

re: #104 Baier

Funny, but when I saw "The Dragon" my first thought was Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat. I had wondered where he went... /

117 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:51:33pm

re: #109 exelwood

I often wonder if there are separate languages for left and right. I usually muddle through when liberals speak but there seems to be a disconnect many times when speaking where liberals gather.

I would think most conservatives would recognize the use of that phrase to indicate the belief that our government is populated with self styled elites who may be "of the people" but certainly haven't governed "for the people" in recent decades. Left and right are so beholden to special interests that any good done for the country is incidental to accomplishing the goals of their masters.

Elite abyss in this instance means a pull back from the destructive governance we've experienced not only at the hands of Obama and the congressional Democrats since '06 but also the Republican president congresses who lost their way as well.

Self-styled? Seriously? It sure seems like a constant branding iron used by the right to identify anyone they want to marginalize as not being a "good, blue collar, hard working American", kind of like the "socialist" brand for anything further left than Rush Limbaugh.

Never really understood the whole "education, logic and intelligence are highly suspect and probably evil" vibe. Who, in their right mind, would choose a janitor to do their open heart surgery vs an "elitist" surgeon just because the janitor is "closer to the people". If you are trying to figure something out, ask the smart people. It's what they do, it's their thing...

118 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:51:54pm

re: #108 Baier

"The Dragon" is not to be trifled with.

A beast of such power that if you were to see it whole and all complete in a single glance it would burn you to cinders!

119 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:52:01pm

re: #94 Baier

When did George Bush approve cutting off someone's testicles? I must be reading the wrong newspapers.

The lawyers who crafted the "torture memo" at DOJ were Jay Bybee and John Yoo. Bybee is now a judge and Yoo is a law prof at UC Berkley who doesn't actually teach anything because he is culturally radioactive. Yoo has unequivocally stated that the President, acting as CinC may set aside laws as he sees fit and order acts that would be serious felony crimes. Keep in mind that this man was writing actual legal policy guidelines for our military and intelligence services...

01/08/06 "revcom.us" -- -- John Yoo publicly argued there is no law that could prevent the President from ordering the torture of a child of a suspect in custody – including by crushing that child’s testicles.

This came out in response to a question in a December 1st debate in Chicago with Notre Dame professor and international human rights scholar Doug Cassel.

What is particularly chilling and revealing about this is that John Yoo was a key architect post-9/11 Bush Administration legal policy. As a deputy assistant to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, John Yoo authored a number of legal memos arguing for unlimited presidential powers to order torture of captive suspects, and to declare war anytime, any where, and on anyone the President deemed a threat.

It has now come out Yoo also had a hand in providing legal reasoning for the President to conduct unauthorized wiretaps of U.S. citizens. Georgetown Law Professor David Cole wrote, "Few lawyers have had more influence on President Bush’s legal policies in the 'war on terror’ than John Yoo."

This part of the exchange during the debate with Doug Cassel, reveals the logic of Yoo’s theories, adopted by the Administration as bedrock principles, in the real world.

Cassel: If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?
Yoo: No treaty.
Cassel: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.
Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.

[Link: www.informationclearinghouse.info...]


John Yoo Says President Bush Can Legally Torture Children

Youtube Video

More fun...
[Link: www.google.com...]


My favorites:

“Military necessity does not admit of cruelty–that is, the infliction of suffering for the sake of suffering or for revenge, nor of maiming or wounding except in fight, nor of torture to extort confessions.” - Abraham Lincoln's General Orders, 100 Instructions for the government of the armies of the United States in the field.

“Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner]. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause… for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country.” - George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775

120 Baier  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:52:28pm

re: #114 Olsonist

The point of finding some hack like John Yoo to manufacture an expansive view of Presidential powers out of thin air was deniability. W probably never heard of the torture discussions. He was above that. It was enough to have Yoo provide an opinion that covered his ass. Then his minions could do as they pleased.

Yeah, but what does 'the Dragon' think?
I'm sorry, but these are ramblings of a lunatic.

121 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:53:25pm

re: #104 Baier

"The Dragon"?
Holy shit, is this LGF?
Well, "The Dragon" seems to think that he would have if he could have gotten away with it.

I'm a "she", thank you very much.

122 blueraven  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:53:41pm

re: #103 blueraven

Ooops...Sorry, bad formatting; got my RE's mixed up. Meant to respond thusly:

re: #62 trendsurfer

I like Larison and read his columns often. But yes, the fact that he writes for that magazine, is a contradiction for me.

re: #79 wrenchwench

Where do you get that he supports racism? I must admit I have not read him for that long, but have never seen evidence of that. Could you elaborate?

123 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:53:45pm

re: #97 celticdragon

VDare?

Uh oh.

Damn. I have generally like Larison.

I have to smile whenever I hear about VDare. If there are any living descendants of Virginia Dare, they're probably black.

124 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:54:10pm

re: #106 oaktree

Or League of the South. I was familiar with their defenders back when I read US Civil War related UseNet groups. Heavy overlap from SCV members over into that group (at least from the consistent posters where I was reading.)

I used to post at alt.war.civil.usa back in the day. I was one of those damn Yankees, together with Mark Pitcavage, Jim Epperson and Brooks Simpson. I remember Stacy McCain, but he was only the 2nd or 3rd most obnoxious troll in the newsgroup.

125 Baier  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:54:29pm

re: #119 celticdragon

You realize this is your raving fantasy based on a hypothetical argument made by a scholar.

126 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:54:56pm

re: #111 Cannadian Club Akbar

Get Return of the Dragon, Bruce Lee fights Chuck Norris. Bruce Lee uses methods on Chuck most like my early training. Heh, back when I healed faster. Great fight scene

127 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:55:36pm

re: #122 blueraven

I figured that out. See #115, which says to see #93.

128 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:55:50pm

re: #109 exelwood

You might enjoy George Lakoff's book re: #119 celticdragon

Actually, Yoo teaches Administrative Law at Bolt and I've talked with his students. I'd like to say he's a tool. Politically, he was. But apparently he is a fine teacher. Go figure.

129 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:56:12pm

re: #117 Locker

Self-styled? Seriously? It sure seems like a constant branding iron used by the right to identify anyone they want to marginalize as not being a "good, blue collar, hard working American", kind of like the "socialist" brand for anything further left than Rush Limbaugh.

Never really understood the whole "education, logic and intelligence are highly suspect and probably evil" vibe. Who, in their right mind, would choose a janitor to do their open heart surgery vs an "elitist" surgeon just because the janitor is "closer to the people". If you are trying to figure something out, ask the smart people. It's what they do, it's their thing...

Good lord! LOL, could you point out where I said any of those things? This is really interesting! :)

130 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:56:14pm

PIMF

131 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:56:46pm

re: #126 Rightwingconspirator

It was on AMC, but I grew up on Bruce Lee movies.:)

132 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:57:08pm

re: #125 Baier

You realize this is your raving fantasy based on a hypothetical argument made by a scholar.

At the time, Yoo was employed by the DoJ.

133 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:57:17pm

re: #120 Baier

Yeah, but what does 'the Dragon' think?
I'm sorry, but these are ramblings of a lunatic.

I have been off my thorazine recently, it seems.

Either that, or my class load has made me unhinged.

Maybe I just resent that me Republican Party that I have belonged to since 1988 has gone off the tracks, as Charles put it.

In any event, if you can't be bothered to actually read and watch the news and follow current events, than don't expect sympathy from me. Pay fucking attention, and maybe you won't get lost in the conversation next time. Yoo's activities and memos are well known. Buck up and do your goddamned homework before you bother me with uninformed questions.

134 keloyd  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:57:28pm

Wow, Joseph Sobran is still alive? Last I heard he went coocoo for cocoa puffs about the Jews and Bill Buckley chucked him out of the NR and polite society.

You see the term 'antisemite' tossed around pretty freely when anyone* ever criticizes anything Israel does, but Sobran is the real thing. There's dog whistles from opportunists who are really indifferent, then there's the real thing. We should be careful about our choices of words so we can have our powder dry for the really bad apples. I'm going to look at that Whig party again.

*often me, I'm still not a fan of phosphorus bombs, looking the other way when thugs call themselves settlers and throw farmers off their land, and intermarriage laws that sound like they're from 1920's Alabama.

135 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:57:31pm

re: #111 Cannadian Club Akbar

I watched "Enter the Dragon" last night.

I wanted to drop a "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" pun back in December, but none of Tiger Woods' paramours turned out to be Asian.

136 simoom  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:57:32pm

Some CPAC news,

Effigy beating:
[Link: washingtonscene.thehill.com...]

Conservative Political Action Conference “CPAC” begins Thursday here in D.C. There will be a conservative-themed party Friday evening where guests will have the opportunity to whack a Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) pinata.

Three famous D.C. residents will be taking a turn as guest "whackers" at the pinata during the annual Conservative Political Action Conference, which starts on Thursday. The guest "whackers" will be at the party, to be held at George in Georgetown.

Mary Christopher, outreach coordinator for CivicForumPAC, said the Pelosi piñata will be filled with favorite Pelosi sayings, bills and candy. The party hopes to invite the well-known D.C. residents to smash the piñata first, before others in attendance will be invited to try to take the Speaker down.

“We’re hoping to have the females whack the piñata and males try their hand at a Harry Reid punching bag,” Christopher said.

Honoring someone charged with multiple felonies:
[Link: www.xpac2010.com...] (XPAC schedule)
Image: EpNtXFri.png (XPAC advertisement)

Friday, February 19, 2010
7-10pm – EPIC Nights at XPAC
sponsored by Xtreme Media & Baldwin/McCullough Radio
Moderator: Kevin McCullough
1st Annual XPAC Award for Speech
*The XPAC Entertainment Surprise Spectacular*
1st Annual XPAC Award for Impact: James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles, ACORN busters

Also,
FoxNews: CPAC Organizers Try to Turn Up Hip Quotient With Video Games, Rap

McCullough said young conservatives are plenty capable of being active in the movement, particularly with new media. He said they just need to be "empowered."

He cited James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles, activists both in their 20s known for their ACORN sting operation last year. The activists dressed up as a pimp and prostitute and used hidden cameras to capture ACORN workers at offices across the country offering them tax advice.

O'Keefe has since been arrested and charged in an alleged plot to tamper with the phone system in Sen. Mary Landrieu's New Orleans office. But McCullough said both O'Keefe and Giles will be honored with the "XPAC Annual Award for Impact" this weekend -- it's an award aimed at activists under 30 who did not "wait their turn in line" to make a difference, he said.

Giles is scheduled to attend. O'Keefe has been ordered by a judge to temporarily stay with his parents in New Jersey.

137 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:57:55pm

re: #87 The Sanity Inspector

I was taught about it in college, and urged to believe that it was an important document of American history.

Heh... just imagine - search & replace all instances of left for right & democratic for republican and hack it up into place of the "Mount Vernon" statement. Wonder how long it would take them to notice...

William

138 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:58:10pm

re: #132 MandyManners

At the time, Yoo was employed by the DoJ.

So was Bybee.

139 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:58:55pm

re: #112 Obdicut

"Where liberals gather"?

You're kind of a parody of yourself.

So your claim, if I get it right, is that this Mount Vernon document is aimed equally at everyone currently in congress-- those who you defined as the 'elite'?

Absolutely, get rid of them all and term limit the new ones! :)

140 Baier  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:58:59pm

re: #133 celticdragon

I have been off my thorazine recently, it seems.

Either that, or my class load has made me unhinged.

Maybe I just resent that me Republican Party that I have belonged to since 1988 has gone off the tracks, as Charles put it.

In any event, if you can't be bothered to actually read and watch the news and follow current events, than don't expect sympathy from me. Pay fucking attention, and maybe you won't get lost in the conversation next time. Yoo's activities and memos are well known. Buck up and do your goddamned homework before you bother me with uninformed questions.


Hahaha. You are way out of your depth.

141 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:59:16pm

re: #124 Alouette

I was an occasional lurker there. Since it was mainly flame-fests with the usual suspects most threads there went uninteresting much too fast.

142 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 12:59:39pm

re: #87 The Sanity Inspector

I was taught about it in college, and urged to believe that it was an important document of American history.

Madge from Palmolive commercials:

"you're soaking in it"

143 Mike in Boulder  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:00:18pm

Very off topic:

Does anyone have any info on the New Israel Fund? I am trying to formulate a balance opinion of them.

Thanks

144 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:01:32pm

re: #80 avanti

Did you notice they dedicated a thread to Walter's piece on the AGW data debate ?

nope, but now that you mention it, that's kind of bat shit nuts

145 blueraven  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:02:10pm

re: #127 wrenchwench

Thanks. That is disturbing, never even looked at that before. Maybe I will ask him about that list.

146 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:03:15pm

re: #125 Baier

You realize this is your raving fantasy based on a hypothetical argument made by a scholar.

Is English a problem for you. Did you have a massive fail with reading comprehension? I have been specific that Yoo has advocated these policies, and did so while employed to advocate policies and clarify policy at the DOJ.

I don't know if anything of the sort actually happened, and sure as hell hope it didn't. You seem to deliberately miss my original point, which is that "conservatives" have never bothered to distance themselves from Yoo and Bybee, nor do they see a disconnect between "individual liberty" and "rule of law" while supporting notions of limitless and unreviewable Executive power. I assume that you are being deliberately tendentious.

147 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:04:13pm

re: #145 blueraven

Anyone who links to League of the South is either a racist or dumb.

148 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:04:34pm

re: #129 exelwood

Good lord! LOL, could you point out where I said any of those things? This is really interesting! :)

Sure...

re: #109 exelwood

I often wonder if there are separate languages for left and right. I usually muddle through when liberals speak but there seems to be a disconnect many times when speaking where liberals gather.

I would think most conservatives would recognize the use of that phrase to indicate the belief that our government is populated with self styled elites who may be "of the people" but certainly haven't governed "for the people" in recent decades. Left and right are so beholden to special interests that any good done for the country is incidental to accomplishing the goals of their masters.

Elite abyss in this instance means a pull back from the destructive governance we've experienced not only at the hands of Obama and the congressional Democrats since '06 but also the Republican president congresses who lost their way as well.

Relevant section bolded for easy reference...

149 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:04:51pm

re: #145 blueraven

Thanks. That is disturbing, never even looked at that before. Maybe I will ask him about that list.

I'd be curious what he'd have to say about it.

150 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:04:54pm

re: #128 Olsonist

You might enjoy George Lakoff's book re: #119 celticdragon

Actually, Yoo teaches Administrative Law at Bolt and I've talked with his students. I'd like to say he's a tool. Politically, he was. But apparently he is a fine teacher. Go figure.

Thanks for the head's up. :)

151 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:04:57pm

re: #147 Obdicut

Anyone who links to League of the South is either a racist or dumb.

Be generous - both is always a possibility.

152 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:05:05pm

re: #117 Locker

Self-styled? Seriously? It sure seems like a constant branding iron used by the right to identify anyone they want to marginalize as not being a "good, blue collar, hard working American", kind of like the "socialist" brand for anything further left than Rush Limbaugh.

Never really understood the whole "education, logic and intelligence are highly suspect and probably evil" vibe. Who, in their right mind, would choose a janitor to do their open heart surgery vs an "elitist" surgeon just because the janitor is "closer to the people". If you are trying to figure something out, ask the smart people. It's what they do, it's their thing...

The objection isn't to people's expertise in a field, but when they start believing that their expertise translates into political probity. Think Dr. Helen Caldicott in 1984, warning that if Ronald Reagan was re-elected, nuclear war would be "a mathematical certainty."

Worse is people who believe that they are better qualified to run the public's affairs than the public is.

153 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:06:07pm

re: #146 celticdragon

I think it would do good for your argument to:

A) Not use insults.

B) Separate the argument between executive power overreach-- which I completely agree with-- from anything about torture in re torture. Combining the two makes it unwieldy.

I get what you're saying-- Bush (and Cheney!) expanded the power of the executive branch hugely, so claims of 'limited government' have some 'splaining to do for those who supported that expansion. But tying it directly to the torture makes your argument more difficult to follow, and weakens it.

And I am not a torture supporter in any way.

154 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:06:09pm

rodan is completely and certifiably insane.

155 mph  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:06:27pm

I respect Ed Meese...interesting collection of signatures.

156 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:06:27pm

OT: Hot Air got its Jesus on, and Salem Communications noticed. Salem will now add Hot Air to its list of sites blending Jesus with conservatism.

157 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:06:58pm

re: #151 Guanxi88

Be generous - both is always a possibility.

LOL! Win!

158 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:07:19pm

re: #147 Obdicut

Anyone who links to League of the South is either a racist or dumb.

That's why I called him a "racist supporter". There's an awful lot of "dumb" around. And because I don't know him. But in combination with the others on that list, and the fact that somebody is paying the guy to write, I don't think he can claim "dumb".

159 simoom  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:07:24pm

re: #136 simoom

“We’re hoping to have the females whack the piñata and males try their hand at a Harry Reid punching bag,” Christopher said.

Based on this statement, I wonder if they feel this a more acceptable political statement because only women will be beating the effigy of a female, and the men will be relegated to punching the effigy of a male?

160 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:07:59pm

re: #156 trendsurfer

Huh. Maybe that's why my company is suddenly gung-ho about putting out an easter book.

The Easter Book is being designed by a Methodist, music by a Baptist, implemented by a Jew, and final design decisions made by a Muslim.

It's gonna rock.

161 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:09:08pm

re: #156 trendsurfer

OT: Hot Air got its Jesus on, and Salem Communications noticed. Salem will now add Hot Air to its list of sites blending Jesus with conservatism.

The question going around is what will they do about the atheist Allahpundit?

162 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:09:33pm

re: #125 Baier

You realize this is your raving fantasy based on a hypothetical argument made by a scholar.

That just went right over your head

163 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:09:54pm

re: #160 Obdicut

Huh. Maybe that's why my company is suddenly gung-ho about putting out an easter book.

The Easter Book is being designed by a Methodist, music by a Baptist, implemented by a Jew, and final design decisions made by a Muslim.

It's gonna rock.

Sounds like South Park's Super Best Friends:

[Link: www.southparkstudios.com...]

164 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:10:15pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

The question going around is what will they do about the atheist Allahpundit?

Wash their hands of him.

165 webevintage  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:10:31pm

Elite abyss


hahahahaha
What a silly thing to say.

Speaking of the "elite" isn't CPAC this week?

166 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:11:14pm

re: #152 The Sanity Inspector

The objection isn't to people's expertise in a field, but when they start believing that their expertise translates into political probity. Think Dr. Helen Caldicott in 1984, warning that if Ronald Reagan was re-elected, nuclear war would be "a mathematical certainty."

Worse is people who believe that they are better qualified to run the public's affairs than the public is.

Do you really think that the little league players are better qualified to run the team than the coach? Or how about the recruits are better qualified to run the unit than the Lt/Drill Sergent? Additionally aren't these "people" you are referring too part of "the public"?

Why would a person trained in public affairs and leadership not be more qualified than "the public" to run affairs? It's a cliche but fairly accurate that "the public" is basically interested in bread and circus'. I'd hardly consider that to be qualified or effective leadership.

167 filetandrelease  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:11:15pm

re: #126 Rightwingconspirator

Get Return of the Dragon, Bruce Lee fights Chuck Norris. Bruce Lee uses methods on Chuck most like my early training. Heh, back when I healed faster. Great fight scene


Did you practice Kenpo?

168 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:11:24pm

re: #153 Obdicut

I think it would do good for your argument to:

A) Not use insults.

B) Separate the argument between executive power overreach-- which I completely agree with-- from anything about torture in re torture. Combining the two makes it unwieldy.

I get what you're saying-- Bush (and Cheney!) expanded the power of the executive branch hugely, so claims of 'limited government' have some 'splaining to do for those who supported that expansion. But tying it directly to the torture makes your argument more difficult to follow, and weakens it.

And I am not a torture supporter in any way.

I concluded that I was no longer engaged with an honest opponent, which is why I became exasperated. Arguing with tendentious trolls is a waste of time, and ad homiums don't really advance anything, as you said. However, the torture issue and executive power are so inter-twined as to be inseparable. Torture was a major push from the VP office and Addington as well as the hacks at DOJ, and it was the executive branch that carried it out.

169 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:11:49pm

re: #164 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wash their hands of him.

Is that the new Pilates?

170 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:12:12pm

re: #169 wrenchwench

Is that the new Pilates?

Nice!

171 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:13:30pm

A Haitian judge has ruled that 8 of 10 missionaries can return to US; Silsby and another member of the group must remain in Haiti to face charges in the kidnapping of 33 Haitian kids. Meanwhile, their one-time legal adviser turns out to be in a whole world of legal trouble (and was never a lawyer to boot).

172 webevintage  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:13:52pm

Giles is scheduled to attend. O'Keefe has been ordered by a judge to temporarily stay with his parents in his parents basement in New Jersey.

Looks better now...

173 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:13:55pm

re: #171 lawhawk

A Haitian judge has ruled that 8 of 10 missionaries can return to US; Silsby and another member of the group must remain in Haiti to face charges in the kidnapping of 33 Haitian kids. Meanwhile, their one-time legal adviser turns out to be in a whole world of legal trouble (and was never a lawyer to boot).

Oops.

174 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:14:28pm

re: #153 Obdicut

Bush (and Cheney!) expanded the power of the executive branch hugely, so claims of 'limited government' have some 'splaining to do for those who supported that expansion.

I was gonna say. In a thread about the Mt Vernon limited government crapola it is a bitter irony to look back at the previous administrations executive overreach. Wait. I did say it: #114 Olsonist

175 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:14:44pm

re: #168 celticdragon

I agree that the torture and other finageling with the legal system was definitely a good example of the overreach, but I still think it confuses the issue somewhat.

I like using Cheney's Phantom-like ability to be Congrexecutive Man.

I don't think anyone would deny that Bush sought, and often attained, powers for the executive office. That part is much less contentious, so I think bringing up torture as the example-- regardless of whether it is a good example-- leads the argument down a different path.

Maybe I'm wrong, and most people don't feel that Bush increased the power of the executive.

But he did.

176 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:15:00pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

As long as Allah can stay on message that the socialist Left is evil he'll be safe.

177 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:15:13pm

re: #148 Locker

Relevant section bolded for easy reference...

Oh dear, I was referring to your interesting extrapolations, I didn't consider you might repeat what was in actual print, that seemed to go without...uh..saying. :)

178 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:15:20pm

re: #167 filetandrelease

No I never did that style. I started in boxing, went to kickboxing/JKD. Then Escrima and Pentjak Silat. Then Combat pistol. I'm thinking of taking up fencing next.

179 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:15:42pm

I guess their parchment formatting program doesn't have a "centre document" feature.
As for the signatories being typewritten in oversized font rather than at least using scanned or facsimile signatures, that is just plain cheesy.
Nice try...not.

180 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:16:23pm

re: #178 Rightwingconspirator

I'm thinking of taking up fencing next.

Barbed wire or picket?

181 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:16:28pm

re: #178 Rightwingconspirator

No I never did that style. I started in boxing, went to kickboxing/JKD. Then Escrima and Pentjak Silat. Then Combat pistol. I'm thinking of taking up fencing next.

Go for sabre, if you do. Everything else is just jabbing with a knitting needle.

182 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:16:32pm

re: #175 Obdicut

He most definitely expanded the powers of the Executive branch, and I've said quite a bit that Obama would be (have been) foolish to give up those powers, which is why we see him continuing quite a few of the policies that he was quick to denounce before he became President - often in relation to the GWoT.

183 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:16:43pm

re: #177 exelwood

Oh dear, I was referring to your interesting extrapolations, I didn't consider you might repeat what was in actual print, that seemed to go without...uh..saying. :)

Well I didn't claim you said anything other than that so what are you talking about?

184 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:16:53pm

Wildly OT, but mabye somebody on here can help, since just about everyone here is to the right of me :p


I was talking with some people about newspaper comics, and the question came up. "Why aren't there any good rightwing comic strips?" (as compared to something like Doonesbury or The Boondocks, which are quality, but left-leaning).

My problem is that I couldn't think of any conservative-trending strips that I didn't think were just awful, but was thinking it might just be partisanship. Anyone have any conservative-leaning comic strips they think are good? >>

185 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:17:12pm

re: #177 exelwood

So when you said "Good lord! LOL, could you point out where I said any of those things?", and someone points out where you said one of those things-- they've somehow failed?

186 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:17:27pm

re: #178 Rightwingconspirator

No I never did that style. I started in boxing, went to kickboxing/JKD. Then Escrima and Pentjak Silat. Then Combat pistol. I'm thinking of taking up fencing next.

Combat pistol range.... soooo fun.

187 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:17:35pm

re: #180 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sitting On :), so picket definitely.

188 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:17:44pm

re: #185 Obdicut

So when you said "Good lord! LOL, could you point out where I said any of those things?", and someone points out where you said one of those things-- they've somehow failed?

Exactly! Now you're catching on.

/

189 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:18:06pm

re: #175 Obdicut

Torture is a good example because its something that people usually have a strong reaction to... but they didn't really during the previous administration.

I think CD was making a point about partisanship, but more likely it should be a point about how 9/11 warped peoples perceptions >>

190 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:18:16pm

re: #171 lawhawk

A Haitian judge has ruled that 8 of 10 missionaries can return to US; Silsby and another member of the group must remain in Haiti to face charges in the kidnapping of 33 Haitian kids. Meanwhile, their one-time legal adviser turns out to be in a whole world of legal trouble (and was never a lawyer to boot).

I want to know more about that "legal adviser" and how he ended up in Haiti giving these people advice.

191 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:18:23pm

re: #184 windsagio

Wildly OT, but mabye somebody on here can help, since just about everyone here is to the right of me :p

I was talking with some people about newspaper comics, and the question came up. "Why aren't there any good rightwing comic strips?" (as compared to something like Doonesbury or The Boondocks, which are quality, but left-leaning).

My problem is that I couldn't think of any conservative-trending strips that I didn't think were just awful, but was thinking it might just be partisanship. Anyone have any conservative-leaning comic strips they think are good? >>

Day by Day

192 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:18:57pm

re: #181 Guanxi88

That's what I was thinking but I have yet to get to a school and see. As long as I get to spar with a person when I get the skills up.

193 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:19:05pm

re: #184 windsagio

Google Rob Smith.

194 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:19:14pm

re: #191 Alouette

thanks, I'll read thru the archive :)

195 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:20:18pm

re: #184 windsagio

Good question. I wish I had an answer.

Didn't FNC have a try at a conservative comedy show that flopped? Maybe it's because conservatives aren't funny.

196 filetandrelease  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:20:27pm

re: #178 Rightwingconspirator

No I never did that style. I started in boxing, went to kickboxing/JKD. Then Escrima and Pentjak Silat. Then Combat pistol. I'm thinking of taking up fencing next.

If I recall correctly, Ed Parker who more or less came out with American Kenpo (Kempo) trained under Bruce Lee, who more or less invented his own style.

197 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:20:50pm

re: #191 Alouette

Day by Day

I've never been able to find that one funny. Perhaps it's not intended to be.

198 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:21:26pm

re: #195 trendsurfer

lol zing.


I thought about bringing up Mallard Fillmore above, but was afraid someone would like it :P

anyways I have some references now, just need to go thru' them ;)

199 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:21:34pm

re: #183 Locker

Well I didn't claim you said anything other than that so what are you talking about?

Your interesting extrapolations? :)

200 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:21:54pm

re: #190 Conservative Moonbat

So would the US Marshals, El Salvadorans, Dominican, and who knows who else. He's previously spent 18 months in a Canadian jail pending an unsuccessful extradition request by United States authorities on top of his conviction in a money laundering case in the US. The guy is bad news all the way around.

201 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:21:59pm

re: #195 trendsurfer

Good question. I wish I had an answer.

Didn't FNC have a try at a conservative comedy show that flopped? Maybe it's because conservatives aren't funny.

I happen to think I can be pretty funny from time to time. :(

202 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:22:05pm

re: #197 Slumbering Behemoth

I've never been able to find that one funny. Perhaps it's not intended to be.

I don't care for it, myself, but, the drawing is topnotch.

203 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:23:14pm

re: #197 Slumbering Behemoth

In googling it I found this :


... which actually is dead on point anyways (fun blog too).


anyways sorry for the jump, I'm just tryin' to check my prejudice :)

204 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:23:15pm

re: #184 windsagio

There are several good "conservative" cartoonists, (Jim Huber jumps to mind , plus a few highlighted here [Link: townhall.com...]

But I think it follows the trend that "the arts" communities for the better part are left leaning. Percentage of actors, musicians, sculpters et al that are "conservative" are less than those of a more liberal bent

just imho!

205 avanti  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:23:44pm

From the American Family association:

"

Obama's new military: Gays showering with straights
Tell Congress not to overturn ban on homosexuals in the military

Gays showering with straights? Absolutely.

If President Obama, congressional Democrats, and homosexual activists get their wish, your son or daughter may be forced to share military showers and barracks with active and open homosexuals who may very well view them with sexual interest."

What am I missing here ? Do gays now in the military have separate showers, or worse yet, don't shower ? /

206 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:24:10pm

re: #146 celticdragon

Is English a problem for you. Did you have a massive fail with reading comprehension? I have been specific that Yoo has advocated these policies, and did so while employed to advocate policies and clarify policy at the DOJ.

I don't know if anything of the sort actually happened, and sure as hell hope it didn't. You seem to deliberately miss my original point, which is that "conservatives" have never bothered to distance themselves from Yoo and Bybee, nor do they see a disconnect between "individual liberty" and "rule of law" while supporting notions of limitless and unreviewable Executive power. I assume that you are being deliberately tendentious.

Yoo and Bybee didn't set policy. They found a legal basis for the government's position. Take it up with their bosses, including Pres. Bush.

207 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:24:15pm

re: #191 Alouette


Man, that's one of the worst. It's an army of unfunny strawmen and contrived situations, without self-awareness.

Like this one, defending the Tea Party as 'middle America' and mocking those who are worried by people showing up armed to protests.

[Link: www.daybydaycartoon.com...]

And this one, with some handy AGW denial built in.

[Link: www.daybydaycartoon.com...]

But de gustibus non disputandum est, after all.

208 Stonemason  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:24:31pm

re: #198 windsagio

Mallard is as funny as Boondocks is predictable. Trying for a laugh from stereotypes only works if you are part of the group NOT being laughed at. Of course a right leaning person would not find Boondocks funny, nor a left find Mallard funny.

What is funny is Get Fuzzy, which lampoons both sides equally at times

209 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:24:33pm

re: #195 trendsurfer

Good question. I wish I had an answer.

Didn't FNC have a try at a conservative comedy show that flopped? Maybe it's because conservatives aren't funny.

I find Glenn Beck hilarious.

210 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:24:41pm

re: #192 Rightwingconspirator

That's what I was thinking but I have yet to get to a school and see. As long as I get to spar with a person when I get the skills up.

Singlestick is great sport, and damned good practice. There's the Irish bataireacht traditions, which you might enjoy.

211 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:25:04pm

re: #205 avanti

Don't ask, Don't Tell, But Boy Do They Smell!

212 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:25:05pm

re: #205 avanti

From the American Family association:

"

Obama's new military: Gays showering with straights
Tell Congress not to overturn ban on homosexuals in the military

Gays showering with straights? Absolutely.

If President Obama, congressional Democrats, and homosexual activists get their wish, your son or daughter may be forced to share military showers and barracks with active and open homosexuals who may very well view them with sexual interest."

What am I missing here ? Do gays now in the military have separate showers, or worse yet, don't shower ? /

...But...how would they know?! It's already happening! Lol@AFA!

213 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:25:13pm

re: #196 filetandrelease

I think Ed Parker was more of a Judo and Japanese influenced guy. His style looks more Japanese than JKD to me anyway, except he worked in American Boxing is a very, very effective way. My teachers trained with Dan Inosanto after he adopted JKD from Bruce, and Benny Irquidez.

214 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:25:59pm

The Sharon Statement (William F. Buckley) and the Port Huron Statement (SDS) were a lot more funner.

215 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:26:12pm

re: #205 avanti

don't you know? Its another example of how we actually discriminate in favor of the gays! They get their own showers (and hell, I hear they get private rooms too! Otherwise you'd have your kids sleeping in the same room as a homosexual).

216 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:26:16pm

re: #203 windsagio

Get Fuzzy is pretty funny.

217 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:26:29pm

re: #205 avanti

These guys probably don't want to work out at 24 Hour Fitness.

218 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:26:35pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

The question going around is what will they do about the atheist Allahpundit?

I wish he would resume photoshop bloggage someday. His election satire in '03 was sidesplitting.

219 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:27:19pm

re: #159 simoom

Based on this statement, I wonder if they feel this a more acceptable political statement because only women will be beating the effigy of a female, and the men will be relegated to punching the effigy of a male?

Reading over your original post, about all I could think is, "These are adults?"

220 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:27:23pm

re: #208 Stonemason

the boondocks isn't usually funny, but its well drawn, and its fun to soak up the guys outrage.

The cartoon version is VERY funny, but not nearly so outright political.

221 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:27:27pm

re: #199 exelwood

Your interesting extrapolations? :)

Are you being obtuse on purpose? I'll use the same thing you used on me... where did I say, claim or imply that you said anything other than "self-styled elites".

222 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:27:37pm

re: #216 Slumbering Behemoth

best strip in comics.

223 simoom  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:27:43pm

re: #195 trendsurfer

Didn't FNC have a try at a conservative comedy show that flopped?

This is a pretty typical sample of The Half-Hour News Hour:

Youtube Video
(that mock ACLU ad was a frequently reoccurring skit)
224 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:28:13pm

And on to something that's actually meaningful.. Tiger is finally going to make an appearance.

Maybe he'll actually start playing golf again.

225 webevintage  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:28:44pm

If you happen to be Catholic with ashes on your forehead today this article from Sullivan on Torture, Marc Thiessen and Catholic teaching looks like a good read.

On my way to get my haircut and drop The Teen at work.

226 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:29:05pm

re: #212 Varek Raith

...But...how would they know?! It's already happening! Lol@AFA!

Betcha nobody will dare bend over to pick up the soap if they drop it.

But I suppose the gay shower rooms will have the soap racks mounted at ankle level...

/

227 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:29:10pm

re: #216 Slumbering Behemoth

Get Fuzzy is pretty funny.

PSYCHOKITTY.

228 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:29:34pm

re: #207 Obdicut

Good lord! That first one is just LAME!

229 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:30:24pm

re: #210 Guanxi88

As I get older, my speed and reach still serve me well. But I need the weapons to take the big energy. No more kickboxing for me.

230 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:30:35pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth

It's a step above Mallard, but a very small step. It's no Doonesbury-- and Doonesbury was fucking hard on Clinton, which few people talking about political cartoons remember.

231 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:30:53pm

OT: Man this guy is either a very good shooter or a very good video editor:

[Link: www.uniquedaily.com...]

232 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:31:03pm

re: #222 windsagio

best strip in comics.

Maybe not.

233 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:31:12pm

I remember reading an article about when the first US Marines were taking over from the Brits in Afghanistan they did double takes at the fact that they Brits had coed showers. There was a depiction of a woman stripping, walking into a shower full of male Marines, showering, and walking back out, thinking nothing of it.

That wasn't the whole point of the article of course.

I wonder how that would go over in the US army.


re: #205 avanti

From the American Family association:

"

Obama's new military: Gays showering with straights
Tell Congress not to overturn ban on homosexuals in the military

Gays showering with straights? Absolutely.

If President Obama, congressional Democrats, and homosexual activists get their wish, your son or daughter may be forced to share military showers and barracks with active and open homosexuals who may very well view them with sexual interest."

What am I missing here ? Do gays now in the military have separate showers, or worse yet, don't shower ? /

234 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:31:48pm

re: #231 Locker

OT: Man this guy is either a very good shooter or a very good video editor:

[Link: www.uniquedaily.com...]

Soccer is not a sport

235 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:32:06pm

re: #229 Rightwingconspirator

I used to do Muay Thai. Then I realized that when I was fifty I would hate myself. Now it's just tai chi, running, and swimming.

Especially if you spar. I never got a serious head injury, but I got some hits that muddled my thinking for days.

236 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:32:13pm

re: #229 Rightwingconspirator

As I get older, my speed and reach still serve me well. But I need the weapons to take the big energy. No more kickboxing for me.

Zulu stick-fighting. I'd love for someone to put together a program to teach that.

Looks wickedly effective.

237 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:32:31pm

re: #232 MandyManners

.....


Ok, I really don't know what to say.


actually I do "Best 2 strips in comics". Nothing on the page is remotely close to either of those, but they're probalby about tied.


The fact that the cartoonists are great friends is just icing on the cake :D

238 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:32:56pm

re: #235 Obdicut

OOH!
Glad to see you are here.
I responded to you on the previous (and now dead) thread.
Here.

239 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:33:35pm

re: #237 windsagio

...


Ok, I really don't know what to say.


actually I do "Best 2 strips in comics". Nothing on the page is remotely close to either of those, but they're probalby about tied.


The fact that the cartoonists are great friends is just icing on the cake :D

I had no idea.

240 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:33:36pm

re: #235 Obdicut

I never got a serious head injury, but I got some hits that muddled my thinking for days.

Isn't that one of the definitions of a serious head injury?

241 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:34:15pm

re: #240 wrenchwench

Serious head injury is more like "I forgot how to talk".

242 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:34:27pm

re: #234 cliffster

Ah, but someone with those skills could find a place in football.

Oh, but don't say that soccer (football) isn't a sport. You might find yourself on the wrong side of a hooligan.

243 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:34:36pm

re: #238 reine.de.tout

Thanks. I'll respond in a bit, but probably stop checking that thread after that. My email is just my username here at gmail, if I ever don't get to a post you want to draw my attention to, as well.

244 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:35:07pm

Those conservative values are rather vague and open-ended. The last value, though, given current GOP hopefuls, could easily be interpreted to read as "heterosexual Christian families need only apply." But what else is new.

245 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:35:20pm

re: #238 reine.de.tout

Necromancer!

246 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:35:22pm

I clicked a spin-off link this morning and got an excellent speech from Ayaan Hirsi Ali. If you only have time to listen to half of it, try the second one. Astoundingly good. The question and answer period was Ali cool and composed no matter the question or comment. I loved her book Infidel, and have only kept up with her in bits and pieces, so this was a rare treat.

247 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:35:37pm

re: #240 wrenchwench

No. I just mean something that made me a little under, not, as a friend of mine got, tunnel vision for a month.

Martial arts are great exercise but, mothers, don't let your children spar, unless they're actually going to have to engage in hand-to-hand combat a lot.

248 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:35:39pm

re: #242 lawhawk

Ah, but someone with those skills could find a place in football.

Oh, but don't say that soccer (football) isn't a sport. You might find yourself on the wrong side of a hooligan.

I put protective gear on before I said it. To avoid a serious head injury.

249 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:36:02pm

re: #231 Locker

OT: Man this guy is either a very good shooter or a very good video editor:

[Link: www.uniquedaily.com...]

My son does soccer drills on a daily basis to improve his aim. A tire swung from a tree, he can put the ball through the hole 4 out of 5 times from 25 yards away. Targets painted on the fence dead center on the run from further away. Most "select" players his age can do those things
You want to see someone who can do some SICK things with a soccer ball, Google Ronaldinho (sample)

Google Video
250 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:36:54pm

re: #240 wrenchwench

Traumatic brain injury. Which goes for everything from mild concussions on up. Muddled thinking for a couple of days is a pretty significant concussion that falls in the mild TBI category.

251 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:36:54pm

re: #241 windsagio

Serious head injury is more like "I forgot how to talk".

I guess it comes down to what we think is "serious". I like my thinking powers, such as they are. I've been knocked out, but that didn't muddle my thinking for days. I think.

252 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:37:42pm

re: #189 windsagio

Torture is a good example because its something that people usually have a strong reaction to... but they didn't really during the previous administration.

I think CD was making a point about partisanship, but more likely it should be a point about how 9/11 warped peoples perceptions >>

Good point.

253 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:38:14pm

re: #237 windsagio

I miss Bloom County.

254 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:38:23pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth

And I resent the idea (presented by Tea Party apologists) that "middle America" is composed of stark-raving reactionaries.

255 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:38:45pm

re: #249 sattv4u2

See.. that's what I mean. I started watching the video and one minute in, he's still putting on his shoes. Soccer - zzz-zzz-zzz-zzz

256 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:40:10pm

re: #255 cliffster

See.. that's what I mean. I started watching the video and one minute in, he's still putting on his shoes. Soccer - zzz-zzz-zzz-zzz

Keep going ,,,,,Hitting the crossbar dead on with the ball returning to him from about 50 yards out ,, MULTIPLE times

257 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:40:39pm

Soccer comes to Springfield

258 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:40:43pm

re: #210 Guanxi88

re: #235 Obdicut
50 is a number coming to me soon. Hence time for a change in style.
re: #236 Guanxi88

Never saw that at all.

259 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:41:30pm

re: #250 lawhawk

Traumatic brain injury. Which goes for everything from mild concussions on up. Muddled thinking for a couple of days is a pretty significant concussion that falls in the mild TBI category.

Thanks, good info. I've had the "loss of consciousness for less than 30 minutes" without the other symptoms. I think.

260 simoom  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:42:11pm

re: #222 windsagio

best strip in comics.

I'm partial to Garfield minus Garfield:
http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/

Wikipedia synopsis:

Garfield Minus Garfield is a webcomic created by Dan Walsh, a thirty-three-year-old from Ireland, which received considerable attention during 2008. Each strip consists of a reprint of a past episode from the comic strip Garfield, from which the character of Garfield himself has been removed through photo manipulation. Though Walsh admits that he was not the first to come up with this idea, he was the first to "champion and popularize" it.

The resulting strips thus consist mostly of Garfield's owner, Jon Arbuckle, interacting with himself, rather than with his pet cat. The strip's website characterizes this result as "a journey deep into the mind of an isolated young everyman as he fights a losing battle against loneliness and depression in a quiet American suburb".

Garfield artist Jim Davis has commented on the webcomic, stating that he is an occasional reader and finds it "fascinating" and an "inspired thing to do".

261 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:42:16pm

re: #253 MandyManners

I'm subscribed to their publisher, so I still get daily updates of Bloom County and Calvin. The Bloom County for today is cool too, because its one that never made it into any of the collections, so its the first time I've seen it since... well since I was like 10 :)


Man, its good to know someone else is a comics fan (not freakin' comic books either :p), I could go on about that for hours and hours :D

262 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:42:17pm

re: #255 cliffster

See.. that's what I mean. I started watching the video and one minute in, he's still putting on his shoes. Soccer - zzz-zzz-zzz-zzz

heres a better compilation

Footwork is SICK!

Youtube Video
263 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:42:40pm

re: #88 celticdragon

I googled it. Yoo is one morally deficient person. No wonder the leftists of Berkeley took issue with him. It pays to read.

On December 1, 2005, Yoo appeared in a debate in Chicago with University of Notre Dame law professor Doug Cassel. During the debate Cassel asked Yoo, "If the President deems that he's got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person's child, there is no law that can stop him?", to which Yoo replied "No treaty." Cassel followed up with "Also no law by Congress — that is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo...", to which Yoo replied "I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that."

264 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:42:44pm

re: #235 Obdicut

I did a lot of that sparring. I was very good at protecting the noggin but my legs paid and paid the price. I had huge contusions. My doctor worries to this day about clots.

265 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:42:50pm

re: #206 MandyManners

Yoo and Bybee didn't set policy. They found a legal basis for the government's position. Take it up with their bosses, including Pres. Bush.

Indeed. I was having to spoonfeed Baier somewhat as he evinced no knowledge of any of this. Cheny and Bush wanted it, and they found hacks to say "Fuck yeah! Let's do it!"

266 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:42:50pm

re: #256 sattv4u2

Keep going ,,,Hitting the crossbar dead on with the ball returning to him from about 50 yards out ,, MULTIPLE times

Yeah, I did. Pretty cool stuff, I'll admit.

267 zora  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:43:02pm

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

GOP Rep. Jason Chaffetz agrees with concerns of 9/11 truthers: ‘There’s still a lot to learn.’

268 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:43:15pm

re: #253 MandyManners

I miss Bloom County.

Me too.

269 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:43:22pm

re: #185 Obdicut

So when you said "Good lord! LOL, could you point out where I said any of those things?", and someone points out where you said one of those things-- they've somehow failed?

This is the exact "disconnect" I was talking about! Our friend Locker made a series of extrapolations based on my comment and then wandered off like he had mixed this conversation with another one and you're following right behind! I love this stuff! :)

Have you ever seen the Twit Olympics skit by Monty Python?

270 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:43:30pm

re: #258 Rightwingconspirator

> Guanxi88

Never saw that at all.

Youtube Video
271 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:43:41pm

re: #260 simoom

yeah I know it. I follow all the comics blogs :)

Its really damn cool, and doubly cool that Davis gave it his OK. Its still no PBS or Get fuzzy (imo anyways).

272 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:45:37pm

re: #271 windsagio

yeah I know it. I follow all the comics blogs :)

Its really damn cool, and doubly cool that Davis gave it his OK. Its still no PBS or Get fuzzy (imo anyways).

Zippy the Pinhead - I wonder if it's still around.

273 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:46:29pm

re: #269 exelwood

You said: "our government is populated with self styled elites".

This was pointed out to you by Locker.

You now apparently think this is an extrapolation.

Are you under the impression you didn't say what you said, or what?

274 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:46:50pm

Speaking of comic strips...

275 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:46:53pm

re: #272 Guanxi88

It is!

I'll read that, but do'nt you find it a bit too intentionally postmodern?

276 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:47:46pm

re: #274 Slumbering Behemoth

thats freaki'n awesome!

What is Pooh there tho', a polar bear? He's enormous!

277 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:47:50pm

re: #39 SpaceJesus

explain to me again how or why a fiscal conservative would want to associate with social conservatives?

The same way the Stalin wanted to work with the National Socialist German Workers' Party!

278 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:48:25pm

re: #277 jamesfirecat

you could also answer that by replacing 'associate' with 'use'.

279 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:48:29pm

re: #270 Guanxi88

We can get that hard near home if we want to...
Dog brothers

280 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:48:35pm

re: #275 windsagio

It is!

I'll read that, but do'nt you find it a bit too intentionally postmodern?

It's a palate-cleanser. As an anti-po-mo kinda guy, I find that its excesses are precisely the best critique of the movement.

Plus, I've always been a fan of absurdist work,

281 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:48:49pm

re: #166 Locker

Do you really think that the little league players are better qualified to run the team than the coach? Or how about the recruits are better qualified to run the unit than the Lt/Drill Sergent? Additionally aren't these "people" you are referring too part of "the public"?

I'm not feeling your analogies, sorry.

Why would a person trained in public affairs and leadership not be more qualified than "the public" to run affairs? It's a cliche but fairly accurate that "the public" is basically interested in bread and circus'. I'd hardly consider that to be qualified or effective leadership.

It depends on how much credence you're willing to give "training" in public affairs. Americans distrust intellectualocracy, and don't bow down to credentials in the soft sciences as much as some other civilized nations do.

There is nothing so irritating as somebody with less intelligence and more sense than we have.
--Don Herold

282 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:49:26pm

re: #249 sattv4u2

My son does soccer drills on a daily basis to improve his aim. A tire swung from a tree, he can put the ball through the hole 4 out of 5 times from 25 yards away. Targets painted on the fence dead center on the run from further away. Most "select" players his age can do those things
You want to see someone who can do some SICK things with a soccer ball, Google Ronaldinho (sample)

[Video]

Hehe yea he's amazing but those skillz didn't stop the pounding Milan took from Man U yesterday. Rooney was sick with the headers.... love watching him play.

283 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:49:50pm

Heh, that's a manifesto all right. Read like something from the Constitution Party. The site is run by a PR firm called CRC Public Relations*. Some of their current and former clients includes:

Discovery Institute
PAX Television
Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers Assoc.

Also includes:

TIME Warner Inc.
Universal Studios, Inc.
Viacom Inc.
Visa USA
The Walt Disney Company

The Mountain Vernon Statement is just a professional astroturfing job.

*Based on contact information for Keith Appell and Anne Marie Moran, both of which are at CRC Public Relations.

284 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:50:06pm

re: #282 Locker

Hehe yea he's amazing but those skillz didn't stop the pounding Milan took from Man U yesterday. Rooney was sick with the headers... love watching him play.

3-2 was a 'pounding"!?!?!

285 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:50:31pm

re: #263 eclectic infidel

I googled it. Yoo is one morally deficient person. No wonder the leftists of Berkeley took issue with him. It pays to read.

The idea that anybody could even seriously consider what Yoo said is both sickening and frightening.

9/11 unleashed something dark in the soul of this country, and it is the same unreasoning hatred and need for vengeance that Thomas Hobbes experienced during the English Civil War, which became the basis for his work in Leviathan. That is the reason why he pessimistically observed that people need to be protected from themselves in order to maintain a civil society. There is a place for intelligent enmity and we had good reason to go to war, but we went well beyond that. We actually did things that were intrinsically evil by any civilized measure. Bin Laden couldn't do that to us. We did it to ourselves.

286 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:50:36pm

re: #281 The Sanity Inspector

It depends on how much credence you're willing to give "training" in public affairs. Americans distrust intellectualocracy, and don't bow down to credentials in the soft sciences as much as some other civilized nations do.

There is nothing so irritating as somebody with less intelligence and more sense than we have.
--Don Herold

Feel them or not your statement basically implied that the inmates are more qualified to run the asylum. I disagree. No biggie.

287 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:50:53pm

re: #6 darthstar

Kenneth Blackwell, Coalition for a Conservative Majority and publisher of 1.2 million Ohio social security numbers.

AH, my old friend Ken Blackwell. Come back to Cincinnati, Ken, we're saving a couple coat hangers for your return.

288 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:53:06pm

re: #280 Guanxi88

That's a good point, Its always hard to tell with that kind of thing...


Find the line between pretension and mocking pretension!

289 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:53:15pm

re: #284 sattv4u2

3-2 was a 'pounding"!?!?!

It was if you watched the game. Milan went up 1 to nil, Man U got pissed and hammered them for the remainder of the game scoring 3 goals. Milan got in a very, very late one but it was a fairly one sided match.

290 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:53:40pm

re: #288 windsagio

That's a good point, Its always hard to tell with that kind of thing...

Find the line between pretension and mocking pretension!

You can't - that's what makes it so freakin' pretentious!

291 Qabal  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:54:58pm

One interesting thing to note. Not a single African American signed the document, and only a single woman. Are there any conservatives that aren't white males?

292 ulmsey123  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:55:09pm

Maybe you all can just make fun of the Constitution? Don't you really want to?

293 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:55:25pm

re: #273 Obdicut

You said: "our government is populated with self styled elites".

This was pointed out to you by Locker.

You now apparently think this is an extrapolation.

Are you under the impression you didn't say what you said, or what?

LOL, no it was actually the two paragraphs of extrapolations that followed that phrase. :)

294 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:55:32pm

We Bagged Us Another Top Taliban

Another leader of the Afghan Taliban has been captured by authorities in Pakistan working in partnership with U.S. intelligence officials. Taliban sources in the region and a counterterrorism officials in Washington have identified the detained insurgent leader as Mullah Abdul Salam, described as the Taliban movement's "shadow governor" of Afghanistan's Kunduz province.

295 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:55:53pm

re: #265 celticdragon

Indeed. I was having to spoonfeed Baier somewhat as he evinced no knowledge of any of this. Cheny and Bush wanted it, and they found hacks to say "Fuck yeah! Let's do it!"

We have a system of checks and balances.

W: John, is it ok if we do whatever we want?
John: Totally, dude. First I think the Constitution totally changed on 9/11. Second, unless the Congress impeaches you, it's totally ok to just make stuff up. Honest.

Checks and balances.

296 limewash  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:55:54pm

Pathetic - Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell Rolls Back Non-Discrimination Protections For Gay State Workers

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

297 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:56:20pm

re: #292 ulmsey123

Maybe you all can just make fun of the Constitution? Don't you really want to?

Hard to ignore your -73 karma in 57 posts. Did you buy those troll Underroos at Target?

298 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:56:22pm

I smell something gamey.

299 cliffster  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:56:41pm

re: #291 Qabal

One interesting thing to note. Not a single African American signed the document, and only a single woman. Are there any conservatives that aren't white males?

Nope. All conservatives are racist white males. And they all stink like poo

300 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:56:48pm

re: #292 ulmsey123

I certainly do!

Whats the difference between the Constitution and the September 1987 issue of Playboy?

One of them is 200 years older!

301 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:57:32pm

re: #299 cliffster

Self-knowledge is the beginning of wisdom ;)

(well after Fear of the Lord)

302 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:58:02pm

re: #291 Qabal

Now or then? Women could not yet vote, slavery was still legal. Why would you expect 21st century ways in the 1700's?

303 Digital Display  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:58:33pm

Good Afternoon Lizards!

304 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:59:01pm

re: #293 exelwood

Then you might actually point out things that you found problematic, instead of just saying "LOL" over and over again.

305 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:59:05pm

re: #302 Rightwingconspirator

I don't think any women signed any of our founding documents, so...

306 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:59:16pm

re: #293 exelwood

Well Obdi it's fairly evident to me that this guy is just a troll dying for a reaction. I'm going to let him continue this conversation with the voices in his head.

307 Qabal  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 1:59:25pm

re: #302 Rightwingconspirator

No, this current document. The "signers" are all white males and a single white female.

308 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:00:27pm

re: #276 windsagio

This one is pretty cool, and this one has that "awww" factor.

309 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:00:39pm

re: #291 Qabal

One interesting thing to note. Not a single African American signed the document, and only a single woman. Are there any conservatives that aren't white males?

Yes. Of course, that doesn't obligate them or anyone else to sign onto this Declaration.

310 Kragarghazi  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:01:14pm

re: #304 Obdicut

Then you might actually point out things that you found problematic, instead of just saying "LOL" over and over again.

That would be constructive, and hence, prohibited.

/

311 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:01:28pm

re: #301 windsagio

Self-knowledge is the beginning of wisdom ;)

(well after Fear of the Lord)

"Know thyself"? If I knew myself, I'd run away.
-- Goethe

312 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:01:48pm

re: #308 Slumbering Behemoth

I find the first one kinda creepy, eerie realistic Calvin.

The second one I totally love >> Think he married Susie Derkins? The little girl looks kinda like her ;)

313 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:01:54pm

re: #283 Gus 802

Heh, that's a manifesto all right. Read like something from the Constitution Party. The site is run by a PR firm called CRC Public Relations*. Some of their current and former clients includes:

Discovery Institute
PAX Television
Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers Assoc.

Also includes:

TIME Warner Inc.
Universal Studios, Inc.
Viacom Inc.
Visa USA
The Walt Disney Company

The Mountain Vernon Statement is just a professional astroturfing job.

*Based on contact information for Keith Appell and Anne Marie Moran, both of which are at CRC Public Relations.

Other organizations that share the same PR firm, CRC Public Relations:

Stop the Abortion Mandate Coalition
The Center for Individual Rights
Swift Boat Veterans

Further information:

Creative Response Concepts
From SourceWatch

Creative Response Concepts, an Alexandria, Virginia-based public relations firm, "has many links to the Republican Party and the conservative movement," Eric Boehlert wrote September 10, 2004, in Salon.

"Among its clients are the Republican National Committee, National Republican Congressional Committee and National Republican Senatorial Committee. Its client list also includes the Christian Coalition, National Taxpayers Union, Media Research Council [sic] and Regnery Publishing. Regnery is the firm that published Unfit for Command, the SBVT screed against [John] Kerry's military record," Boehlert wrote.

"Interview requests for CRC's clients are routed through the main switchboard at a single telephone number; extensions 108 and 110 at the same number handle Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, while extensions 109 and 130 are for the Judicial Confirmation Network," Todd Johnston wrote July 5, 2005, in ePluribus Media.

(snip)

National Abstinence Education Association

Writing on a reproductive health blog in April 2007, Scott Swenson reported that, "Using membership dues paid in part by federal tax dollars, the National Abstinence Education Association (NAEA) hired the Washington, DC, public relations firm, Creative Response Concepts." On behalf of the NAEA, CRC will be heading a "proactive rapid response initiative to counteract negative attacks on abstinence education," reported O'Dwyer's PR Daily.

314 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:01:57pm

re: #307 Qabal

Oh got it. Whoops.

315 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:02:38pm

re: #125 Baier

You realize this is your raving fantasy based on a hypothetical argument made by a scholar.

We shouldn't be making even hypothetical arguments about when it is okay to torture.

316 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:02:38pm

Play time! Laters y'all.

317 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:02:56pm

re: #316 Slumbering Behemoth

Peaces!

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:03:18pm

re: #11 Jadespring

I assume they're referencing the Declaration of Independence but it's not written very well. Kinda blurs them together as if they're talking about the same thing.

It's you know, that patriotic stuff.

It's not terribly well written, is it? Jefferson would have wept. And edited.

319 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:03:25pm

re: #296 limewash

Pathetic - Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell Rolls Back Non-Discrimination Protections For Gay State Workers

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

There you go. Another example of the so-cons at work.

Bob McDonnell is a [deleted].

320 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:03:43pm

re: #296 limewash


I thought he was supposed to be a moderate?

321 fizzlogic  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:03:54pm

re: #308 Slumbering Behemoth

This one was always one of my favorites.

322 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:04:09pm

re: #139 exelwood

Absolutely, get rid of them all and term limit the new ones! :)

Yes, because nothing would help limit special interest power like have the special interest lobbyists have more years under their belts at their job then our Senators!

323 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:04:09pm

re: #319 Gus 802

There you go. Another example of the so-cons at work.

Bob McDonnell is a [deleted].

Yep, which was why I didn't vote for him.

324 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:05:02pm

re: #320 Obdicut

No room for that kind of thing in our Modern Republican Party >>

325 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:05:12pm

re: #323 Varek Raith

Yep, which was why I didn't vote for him.

He even looks and sounds like a stereotypical thumper.

326 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:05:37pm

re: #324 windsagio

I can understand a modern GOP member not pushing gay rights. Really. But rolling them back, actually stripping rights-- that's pretty odious to me.

327 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:06:13pm

re: #283 Gus 802

The Mountain Vernon Statement is just a professional astroturfing job.

Good work!

328 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:06:38pm

re: #326 Obdicut

Oh I agree, but I wasn't really being that facetious. He's probably looking at it politically and sopping to the Socons.

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:06:52pm

re: #39 SpaceJesus

explain to me again how or why a fiscal conservative would want to associate with social conservatives?

Well, a fiscon might support socon social controls, so long as they didn't cost the state anything.

330 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:07:24pm

re: #327 wrenchwench

Good work!

Thanks. That PR firm seems to handle a lot of far-right causes.

331 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:08:48pm

Far enough off topic now? New topic posted? Then here's this:
Israeli ambassador to U.S. heckled at UC-Irvine

In fairness:


It was not clear whether those disturbing the speech were members of the Muslim Student Union.

But it's been noted many times here, the vileness perpetrated by this entity on that campus.

332 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:08:50pm

re: #328 windsagio

Oh I agree, but I wasn't really being that facetious. He's probably looking at it politically and sopping to the Socons.

Exactly. A backbencher looking for traction.

333 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:08:59pm

Sending people like Tom DeLay to Washington to reform it is like hiring OJ Simpson to find Nicole's real killer.

334 Bronco Bama FTW  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:08:59pm

YOU.. .turn me on. I can't get high without you!

335 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:09:39pm

re: #331 The Sanity Inspector

"This entity"?


Which entity? UC?

336 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:10:33pm

re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth

The Mount Vernon Statement

Constitutional Conservatism: A Statement for the 21st Century

"Wasn't the 18th Century kinda cool? Let's go back to it."

Well, the eighteenth century was kinda cool. But its main advantage in rhetoric like this is that all the great men who lived then are dead, and can no longer talk back.

337 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:10:54pm

re: #291 Qabal

One interesting thing to note. Not a single African American signed the document, and only a single woman. Are there any conservatives that aren't white males?

Not only that, but the one female who signed is a member of the Human Biodiversity Group. As are a couple of the male signers.

338 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:11:01pm

re: #335 windsagio

"This entity"?

Which entity? UC?

MSU, not UC

339 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:11:11pm

re: #322 jamesfirecat

Yes, because nothing would help limit special interest power like have the special interest lobbyists have more years under their belts at their job then our Senators!

Indeed, think of all the time the lobbyists will have to waste training a new batch only to see them replaced by term limits. Based on the 1994 class of freshman Republicans it takes about two terms to completely subjugate them. Is there any creature more corrupt than a ten term congressman?

340 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:11:33pm

re: #338 Guanxi88

I get it, his post was hard to parse.

341 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:13:25pm

re: #336 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, the eighteenth century was kinda cool. But its main advantage in rhetoric like this is that all the great men who lived then are dead, and can no longer talk back.

It's why biblical arguments are interminable: We don't even know if we got the names right.

342 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:14:05pm

re: #336 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, the eighteenth century was kinda cool. But its main advantage in rhetoric like this is that all the great men who lived then are dead, and can no longer talk back.

Just wait 'till we can travel through time!

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:14:18pm

re: #109 exelwood

I often wonder if there are separate languages for left and right. I usually muddle through when liberals speak but there seems to be a disconnect many times when speaking where liberals gather.

I would think most conservatives would recognize the use of that phrase to indicate the belief that our government is populated with self styled elites who may be "of the people" but certainly haven't governed "for the people" in recent decades. Left and right are so beholden to special interests that any good done for the country is incidental to accomplishing the goals of their masters.

Elite abyss in this instance means a pull back from the destructive governance we've experienced not only at the hands of Obama and the congressional Democrats since '06 but also the Republican president congresses who lost their way as well.

There must be a separate language, because 'elite abyss' to me only leave the question of whether there is a plebian abyss out there, and what the difference is.

344 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:14:31pm

First name on the list: Edwin Meese, waster of time with his anti-porn crusade and instigator asset forfeiture drug war idiocy.

And a little further down, the "Concerned Women for America," founded by the wife of Tim LaHaye, who is also an idiot:

LaHaye believes that the Illuminati is secretly engineering world affairs.[7] In Rapture Under Attack he wrote:
I myself have been a forty-five year student of the satanically-inspired, centuries-old conspiracy to use government, education, and media to destroy every vestige of Christianity within our society and establish a new world order. Having read at least fifty books on the Illuminati, I am convinced that it exists and can be blamed for many of man's inhumane actions against his fellow man during the past two hundred years.[1]


What's next, PMRC 2.0?

345 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:15:03pm

re: #184 windsagio

Wildly OT, but mabye somebody on here can help, since just about everyone here is to the right of me :p

I was talking with some people about newspaper comics, and the question came up. "Why aren't there any good rightwing comic strips?" (as compared to something like Doonesbury or The Boondocks, which are quality, but left-leaning).

My problem is that I couldn't think of any conservative-trending strips that I didn't think were just awful, but was thinking it might just be partisanship. Anyone have any conservative-leaning comic strips they think are good? >>

The problem is that Liberals tend to be better at comedy because....

BROAD BRUSH COMING MOVE OUT OF THE WAY!

Well hell I don't have a reason that wouldn't be unfair.

But the data does tend to speak for itself. Is there a conservative Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert out there?

346 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:15:42pm

re: #335 windsagio

"This entity"?


Which entity? UC?

The MSU.

347 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:15:44pm

re: #345 jamesfirecat

some examples were posted, they tended not to be funny >>

348 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:16:55pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

There must be a separate language, because 'elite abyss' to me only leave the question of whether there is a plebian abyss out there, and what the difference is.

Plebian abyss- NASCAR, tractor pulls, etc.

Elite abyss - any first or even second-rate English literature department.

349 Lidane  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:16:58pm

I've been busy for the last few hours, so if I missed this somewhere upthread, I apologize. :)

IMO, Daniel Larison has a pretty good response to this Mount Vernon silliness:

[Link: www.amconmag.com...]

350 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:18:33pm

re: #349 Lidane

See #79 and #93, and don't be surprised if your comment gets deleted.

351 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:20:09pm

re: #165 webevintage

Elite abyss


hahahahaha
What a silly thing to say.

Speaking of the "elite" isn't CPAC this week?

Oh yeah! Now, is GOProud in or out?

352 garhighway  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:21:03pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

There must be a separate language, because 'elite abyss' to me only leave the question of whether there is a plebian abyss out there, and what the difference is.

Exactly. An "elite abyss" would, obviously, be one really fine abyss. A superlative abyss. An abyss to end all abysses.

Seriously: I just do not get those who think that government shouldn't be made up of smart people.

353 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:21:20pm
Canada: Man convicted in terror plot gets life sentence
A judge sentenced a Canadian resident to life in prison on Wednesday for his role in a terror plot against Germany and Austria.
Said Namouh, a Moroccan who has lived in Quebec since 2003, was found guilty last October of four terrorism-related charges related to a plan to bomb targets in Germany and Austria.
Namouh was arrested in 2007 for his alleged role in making threats in an Internet video that warned that Germany and Austria would be attacked if they did not pull their troops out of Afghanistan.
He was involved with the Global Islamic Media Front, an al-Qaida propaganda group increasingly tied to terrorism operations. Three Austrian citizens of Arab origin were arrested in Vienna in 2007.
Quebec court Judge Claude Leblond said Namouh remains dangerous and remorseless.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The wheels of justice grind slowly and occasionally surely.

354 Cforchange  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:21:38pm

re: #6 darthstar

This list looks like it's comprised of economic or foreign policy conservatives who happen to also be social cons. Hmm, same old GOP forces trying to repackage themselves. Some like me are looking only for the GOP to change and this list tells me nooooo.

355 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:22:54pm

re: #184 windsagio

Wildly OT, but mabye somebody on here can help, since just about everyone here is to the right of me :p


I was talking with some people about newspaper comics, and the question came up. "Why aren't there any good rightwing comic strips?" (as compared to something like Doonesbury or The Boondocks, which are quality, but left-leaning).

My problem is that I couldn't think of any conservative-trending strips that I didn't think were just awful, but was thinking it might just be partisanship. Anyone have any conservative-leaning comic strips they think are good? >>

Mallard Fillmore is sometimes funny, but often falls prey to the 'I'm so bitter' thing.

Ummmm....no.

356 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:23:59pm

Note to Sarah Palin -

"You had me at 'I quit' "

357 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:24:14pm

re: #205 avanti

From the American Family association:

"

Obama's new military: Gays showering with straights
Tell Congress not to overturn ban on homosexuals in the military

Gays showering with straights? Absolutely.

If President Obama, congressional Democrats, and homosexual activists get their wish, your son or daughter may be forced to share military showers and barracks with active and open homosexuals who may very well view them with sexual interest."

What am I missing here ? Do gays now in the military have separate showers, or worse yet, don't shower ? /

Don't ask, don't tell, don't bathe.

358 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:24:40pm

re: #184 windsagio

Wildly OT, but mabye somebody on here can help, since just about everyone here is to the right of me :p

I was talking with some people about newspaper comics, and the question came up. "Why aren't there any good rightwing comic strips?" (as compared to something like Doonesbury or The Boondocks, which are quality, but left-leaning).

My problem is that I couldn't think of any conservative-trending strips that I didn't think were just awful, but was thinking it might just be partisanship. Anyone have any conservative-leaning comic strips they think are good? >>

I think it's because - and this is a Righty writing this - those who believe the world is going to Hell in a third-rate handbasket don't often see the humor in the situation.

359 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:27:23pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

There must be a separate language, because 'elite abyss' to me only leave the question of whether there is a plebian abyss out there, and what the difference is.

To me "elite abyss" means I'm not very hungry so I'll have just a taste.

360 Lidane  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:27:57pm

re: #350 wrenchwench

Gah. My bad, then. Sorry, Charles!

I'm guessing the TAC site is verboten? I still haven't figured out all the sites not to link to. Guess I should just Google cache everything to be safe.

361 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:28:57pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

There must be a separate language, because 'elite abyss' to me only leave the question of whether there is a plebian abyss out there, and what the difference is.

Exactly! I'm becoming convinced you actually do wonder what the difference might be. :)

362 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:29:49pm

re: #285 celticdragon

The idea that anybody could even seriously consider what Yoo said is both sickening and frightening.

9/11 unleashed something dark in the soul of this country, and it is the same unreasoning hatred and need for vengeance that Thomas Hobbes experienced during the English Civil War, which became the basis for his work in Leviathan. That is the reason why he pessimistically observed that people need to be protected from themselves in order to maintain a civil society. There is a place for intelligent enmity and we had good reason to go to war, but we went well beyond that. We actually did things that were intrinsically evil by any civilized measure. Bin Laden couldn't do that to us. We did it to ourselves.

Interesting to compare the conversation here about this to the visceral reactions Jamesfirecat got when he asked if rape was too far to go to protect America at any cost.

363 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:30:45pm

re: #292 ulmsey123

Maybe you all can just make fun of the Constitution? Don't you really want to?

The only complaint I have about the Constitution is that the Second Amendment is poorly grammatically constructed.

364 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:32:04pm

re: #363 SanFranciscoZionist

The only complaint I have about the Constitution is that the Second Amendment is poorly grammatically constructed.

Upding for the tortured grammar: well-played.

365 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:33:21pm

Anyone see this?

Glenn Reynolds (InstaTeaPartier) has this to say about the "Mount Vernon Statement"

REVEALED: The Mount Vernon Statement. Notice that it’s heavy on small-government stuff, and light on social-issue meddling. I think this supports the notion of a libertarian shift on the right — which I, of course, am happy to see.

More revealing is who is behind it, Glenn.

If you want to find out what motivates the Tea Party, just confront some of the Social Conservatives who have co-opted the show. Just point out the birther nonsense and the "values" appeals and call them on it.

If they are born again libertarians they'll blush. But, more likely, their red faces will be motivated by fury and anger. Watch out for that nasty hellfire, Glenn.

366 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:34:44pm

re: #342 Varek Raith

Just wait 'till we can travel through time!

They're gonna have been get sick of us.

367 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:35:28pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

They're gonna have been get sick of us.

That's "willen-have-been"

368 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:36:20pm

re: #359 Spare O'Lake

To me "elite abyss" means I'm not very hungry so I'll have just a taste.

LOL!!

369 baier  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:36:43pm

re: #146 celticdragon

Is English a problem for you. Did you have a massive fail with reading comprehension? I have been specific that Yoo has advocated these policies, and did so while employed to advocate policies and clarify policy at the DOJ.

I don't know if anything of the sort actually happened, and sure as hell hope it didn't. You seem to deliberately miss my original point, which is that "conservatives" have never bothered to distance themselves from Yoo and Bybee, nor do they see a disconnect between "individual liberty" and "rule of law" while supporting notions of limitless and unreviewable Executive power. I assume that you are being deliberately tendentious.

I don't think that you are understanding what Yoo is saying. You're out of your depth.

370 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:37:18pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

They're gonna have been get sick of us.

You bet they were!

371 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:37:36pm

re: #367 Guanxi88

That's "willen-have-been"

Thank you, I always mess up the future past subjunctive...

372 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:38:00pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

They're gonna have been get sick of us.

BTW - the Hitchhiker's Guide was, so far as I know, the first, and maybe the only, sci-fi work to deal with the grammatical problems of time-travel.

373 baier  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:38:05pm

re: #265 celticdragon

Indeed. I was having to spoonfeed Baier somewhat as he evinced no knowledge of any of this. Cheny and Bush wanted it, and they found hacks to say "Fuck yeah! Let's do it!"

Rantings of a lunatic, again.l

374 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:40:14pm

re: #352 garhighway

Exactly. An "elite abyss" would, obviously, be one really fine abyss. A superlative abyss. An abyss to end all abysses.

Seriously: I just do not get those who think that government shouldn't be made up of smart people.

Bolded for truth :D

375 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:40:23pm

re: #352 garhighway

Exactly. An "elite abyss" would, obviously, be one really fine abyss. A superlative abyss. An abyss to end all abysses.

Seriously: I just do not get those who think that government shouldn't be made up of smart people.

Of course it should. I think part of the problem here is the "abyss" in understanding the use of the word elite in reference to the government. It is not a complement, elites are not viewed as particularly bright, merely as professional politicians who have long since ceased to actually represent their constituents. Many of the political elite are demonstrably stupid regardless of your political perspective.

Perhaps instead of referring to the political class as elites we should call them effetes.

376 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:42:41pm

re: #375 exelwood

Ah, nice, add some homophobia to the mess you've made. That'll make it more palatable!

377 Guanxi88  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:45:03pm

re: #376 Obdicut

Ah, nice, add some homophobia to the mess you've made. That'll make it more palatable!

Don't agree with exelwood's point or manner of expression, but effete is hardly a term of homophobic derision.

378 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:46:15pm

re: #373 baier

Rantings of a lunatic, again.l


You're still going? You really don't know when you've been beat! I admire your persistence. :D

379 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:46:58pm

re: #378 WindUpBird

Its the internet. People don't just give up!

~~~

PS: I left you a message

380 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:47:44pm

re: #376 Obdicut

Ah, nice, add some homophobia to the mess you've made. That'll make it more palatable!

Perfect example! Your interpretation of effete fits your narrative, my interpretation fits John Kerry. :)

381 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:47:45pm

re: #375 exelwood

You still sound like fuckin' Palin. Might I recommend dropping the 'elite' crap altogether? It doesn't 'complement' your argument nearly as well as you think it does.

And no, that's not a compliment.

382 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:47:52pm

re: #379 windsagio

Its the internet. People don't just give up!

~~~

PS: I left you a message

THERE'S STILL INTERNET ON THE TABLE NOM NOM

and ok :D

383 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:50:02pm

re: #376 Obdicut

Ah, nice, add some homophobia to the mess you've made. That'll make it more palatable!


Ha!

re: #380 exelwood

Perfect example! Your interpretation of effete fits your narrative, my interpretation fits John Kerry. :)

Again with the writer-based prose? Did you not read my earlier admonition on this subject?

384 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:50:06pm

re: #380 exelwood

GAZE.

385 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:50:42pm

re: #380 exelwood

Perfect example! Your interpretation of effete fits your narrative, my interpretation fits John Kerry. :)

(joining Obdicut here)

GAY-ZE

386 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:51:14pm

re: #384 Obdicut

man, its not my place to challenge tradition, and I agree the guy's being an ass, but that "GAZE" thing has always annoyed the hell out of me :p

Call him out proper-like!

387 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:51:36pm

re: #381 darthstar

You still sound like fuckin' Palin. Might I recommend dropping the 'elite' crap altogether? It doesn't 'complement' your argument nearly as well as you think it does.

And no, that's not a compliment.

Your grace and tolerance are an example to your fellow liberals, would that they were all so circumspect.

388 torrentprime  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:52:57pm

re: #387 exelwood

Your grace and tolerance are an example to your fellow liberals, would that they were all so circumspect.

Those who don't tolerate fake-folksiness and stupidity are really discriminating against the right, when you stop and think about it.

389 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:53:39pm

re: #387 exelwood

Mayday Mayday! We're going down! Brace for impact!!!

390 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:53:53pm

re: #387 exelwood

/fixt

391 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:53:59pm

re: #380 exelwood

Perfect example! Your interpretation of effete fits your narrative, my interpretation fits John Kerry. :)

Yes and your appreciation of the proper use of the semicolon just fits.

392 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:55:45pm

re: #386 windsagio

He's too boring.

393 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:56:43pm

re: #387 exelwood

Your grace and tolerance are an example to your fellow liberals, would that they were all so circumspect.

Listen, wordsmith. I don't speak for my fellow liberals any more than you speak for your fellow...what the hell are you, anyway?...are there more of you? And put down the damn thesaurus...you're making a fool of yourself. Endeavor to eschew obfuscation whilst you're scribing herein, else risk further estrangement.

394 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:56:45pm

re: #392 Obdicut

not my job to tell you what to do anyways :p

also, I like the fisticuffs more than you ;)

395 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:57:14pm

re: #377 Guanxi88

Don't agree with exelwood's point or manner of expression, but effete is hardly a term of homophobic derision.

I agree. It's actually more a sexist type one or like and indicator of he views the sexes in terms of how he genderizes peoples competency levels. Manly=good, not so manly= not as good.

Probably not important or something to dwell on but from an observational POV it adds some interesting context.

I have found this type of thought process and use of language is quite when I hang out in places where conservatives like exelwood gather.

//

396 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:58:07pm

re: #391 Olsonist

Yes and your appreciation of the proper use of the semicolon just fits.

Ah, we're arrived at the point in the conversation when attacking grammar is all you have left so say. Well, we'll play again another day. :)

397 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:58:39pm

re: #396 exelwood

Ah, we're arrived at the point in the conversation when attacking grammar is all you have left so say. Well, we'll play again another day. :)

I do believe we have a quitter!

398 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:58:58pm

re: #396 exelwood

no, I think everyones making fun of you now, because you've shown yourself to be... well, awful.

399 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:59:12pm

re: #395 Jadespring

pimf 'is quite 'common'

400 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:59:30pm

re: #393 darthstar

I'm a good writer and I'd die to have DarthStar rake my writing over the coals. Woody, he's doing you a favor. Listen to him. Your writing sucks. Suck less.

401 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 2:59:56pm

re: #398 windsagio

no, I think everyones making fun of you now, because you've shown yourself to be... well, awful.

Yes! Personal attacks! Can downdings be far behind?? :)

402 torrentprime  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:02:21pm

re: #395 Jadespring

Manly=good, not so manly= not as good.
//

This reminded me of the evangelical preacher who railed against pastors who "pee sitting down." Heathens!

Seriously, how far can we push the manly-man Jesus thing?

403 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:04:23pm

re: #393 darthstar

Listen, wordsmith. I don't speak for my fellow liberals any more than you speak for your fellow...what the hell are you, anyway?...are there more of you? And put down the damn thesaurus...you're making a fool of yourself. Endeavor to eschew obfuscation whilst you're scribing herein, else risk further estrangement.

LOL, I believe you actually hit thesaurus.com but your flow is choppy and inelegant. Remember, grace in all things. :)

404 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:05:13pm

re: #400 Olsonist

Thanks. Having been in woody's shoes, I can sympathize.

405 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:06:08pm

re: #403 exelwood

We know what you're trying to do now, is it that important to establish your superiority no matter what?

406 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:07:04pm

re: #402 torrentprime

This reminded me of the evangelical preacher who railed against pastors who "pee sitting down." Heathens!

Seriously, how far can we push the manly-man Jesus thing?

Ha that's funny.

407 Euesperides invidius  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:08:42pm

re: #214 Spare O'Lake

The Sharon Statement (William F. Buckley) and the Port Huron Statement (SDS) were a lot more funner.

That's just the compromised second draft of the Port Huron Statement.

408 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:10:14pm

Obdicut, I suppose I have to backtrack and admit this is why you do the stupid GAZE thing. Actually talking to them is a waste of time, and is giving them what they want.

So you were right :p

409 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:10:34pm

re: #405 windsagio

We know what you're trying to do now, is it that important to establish your superiority no matter what?

Actually, you have no idea how much I'm just enjoying the conversation. :)

410 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:10:43pm

re: #403 exelwood

LOL, I believe you actually hit thesaurus.com but your flow is choppy and inelegant. Remember, grace in all things. :)

Choppy and inelegant? I've never been accused of being choppy and inelegant before! Updinged for originality.

411 darthstar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:11:28pm

re: #409 exelwood

Actually, you have no idea how much I'm just enjoying the conversation attention. :)

Fixed that for you.

412 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:11:57pm

re: #409 exelwood

Actually, you have no idea how much I'm just enjoying the conversation. :)

John Wayne rocks!!! Wooo!

Amiright?

413 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:12:57pm

re: #409 exelwood

oh c'mon, is that the best you can do?

Whats next? "You guys are mad, I'm not mad!"

You got your ass beat in discussion so now you're playing the 'jolly internet prankster card.'


I don't expect you to admit it, I'm just making sure you know how far ahead of you we are.

414 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:16:14pm

re: #413 windsagio

I don't even know what he's saying. I can't be bothered to even fish that out. But he can't write and the writing lesson is over.

415 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:16:58pm

re: #414 Olsonist

hehe pay me no mind, I just like to play (as someone said) "colorman" for the blog ;)

416 webevintage  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:18:04pm

re: #365 karmic_inquisitor

REVEALED: The Mount Vernon Statement. Notice that it’s heavy on small-government stuff, and light on social-issue meddling. I think this supports the notion of a libertarian shift on the right — which I, of course, am happy to see.

I wonder if small gov't tea party folks think most social-issue meddling is only a bad thing when it is from the Federal level, but quite cool with State gov getting all involved in social issues.

417 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:20:15pm

re: #375 exelwood

Of course it should. I think part of the problem here is the "abyss" in understanding the use of the word elite in reference to the government. It is not a complement, elites are not viewed as particularly bright, merely as professional politicians who have long since ceased to actually represent their constituents. Many of the political elite are demonstrably stupid regardless of your political perspective.

Perhaps instead of referring to the political class as elites we should call them effetes.

I understand how the word 'elite' is being used by a lot of people right about now, and well, using it with a straight face raises my eyebrows a bit. It's a word that gets used by folksy shysters to smear other politicians.

I also understand how 'effete' is used, and I don't like that at all.

Try again. Maybe something less elaborately coded, like 'hack politicians'. Or, 'bad politicians'. Or 'those dumbasses in Washington'.

418 torrentprime  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:21:07pm

re: #416 webevintage

I wonder if small gov't tea party folks think most social-issue meddling is only a bad thing when it is from the Federal level, but quite cool with State gov getting all involved in social issues.

This is purely anecdotal, but whenever I put on my hazmat suit and browse FreeRepublic, I see a lot of "I'm in favor of states' rights, but because some federal judge can rule [X], we need a federal constitutional amendment to [accomplish whatever my Bible tells me about Y]." Examples are gay marriage, abortion, prayer in schools. The fear of the judiciary "imposing" gay marriage, etc is pretty real.

419 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:22:34pm

re: #417 SanFranciscoZionist

The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns, as it were, instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish squirting out ink.

GO

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:23:06pm

re: #377 Guanxi88

Don't agree with exelwood's point or manner of expression, but effete is hardly a term of homophobic derision.

First thing I thought of as well.

421 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:24:58pm

re: #387 exelwood

Your grace and tolerance are an example to your fellow liberals, would that they were all so circumspect.

Perhaps if their brethren from across the aisle would offer an example as well...gentle hint...

422 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:26:30pm

re: #402 torrentprime

This reminded me of the evangelical preacher who railed against pastors who "pee sitting down." Heathens!

Seriously, how far can we push the manly-man Jesus thing?

Well, the phrase does have Biblical resonance.

423 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:28:31pm

re: #413 windsagio

oh c'mon, is that the best you can do?

Whats next? "You guys are mad, I'm not mad!"

You got your ass beat in discussion so now you're playing the 'jolly internet prankster card.'

I don't expect you to admit it, I'm just making sure you know how far ahead of you we are.

Yes, of course you are! Normally when I attempt discussions with liberals they quickly become snarky and dwell on trivial errata rather than getting into serious discussions of content like you fellows do, I couldn't be more impressed...seriously. :)

424 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:28:47pm

re: #409 exelwood

Actually, you have no idea how much I'm just enjoying the conversation. :)

Nonsense. What you're enjoying is the sense that you're somehow superior to people you've never met, on a website, who disagree with your political dialect, because they're 'liberals'. Not the conversation.

You are not the only person so afflicted, but we try to do better at LGF. When you get to 'you're so funny', the conversation is dead, and the banter has been reduced to a sixth-grade level.

425 windsagio  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:29:25pm

re: #424 SanFranciscoZionist

when it gets to that point, thats when its really time to stop.

426 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:30:31pm

re: #416 webevintage

I wonder if small gov't tea party folks think most social-issue meddling is only a bad thing when it is from the Federal level, but quite cool with State gov getting all involved in social issues.

I think there must be some folks of that ilk, but they're just so all over the map politically speaking, it's hard to...sort out.

427 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:31:56pm

re: #418 torrentprime

This is purely anecdotal, but whenever I put on my hazmat suit and browse FreeRepublic, I see a lot of "I'm in favor of states' rights, but because some federal judge can rule [X], we need a federal constitutional amendment to [accomplish whatever my Bible tells me about Y]." Examples are gay marriage, abortion, prayer in schools. The fear of the judiciary "imposing" gay marriage, etc is pretty real.

Impose on others before they impose on you!

428 exelwood  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:42:21pm

re: #424 SanFranciscoZionist

Nonsense. What you're enjoying is the sense that you're somehow superior to people you've never met, on a website, who disagree with your political dialect, because they're 'liberals'. Not the conversation.

You are not the only person so afflicted, but we try to do better at LGF. When you get to 'you're so funny', the conversation is dead, and the banter has been reduced to a sixth-grade level.

Seriously, I do not intend to come across that way. Expressing a contrary opinion around here requires a willingness to put up some fairly serious "tit" for the avalanche of "tat". :)

429 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 3:52:22pm

re: #345 jamesfirecat

The problem is that Liberals tend to be better at comedy because...

BROAD BRUSH COMING MOVE OUT OF THE WAY!

Well hell I don't have a reason that wouldn't be unfair.

But the data does tend to speak for itself. Is there a conservative Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert out there?

He's getting past his sell-by date, but P. J. O'Rourke was an example, in the 80s and 90s.

"Liberal" is, of course, one of those fine English words, like "lady" and "welfare", which have been spoiled by special pleading. When I say "liberals", I certainly don't mean openhanded individuals or tolerant people or even big-government Democrats. I mean people who are excited that 1 percent of the profits of Ben & Jerry's ice cream goes to promote world peace.
-- P. J. O'Rourke, Give War A Chance, 1992

430 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:27:24pm

re: #292 ulmsey123

Nah, I think there are folk here who would rather poke fun at you.

431 e5india  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:27:42pm

The worst part of this teaparty/patriots theme in conservativism is that it pretends there weren't any Founding Fathers who were Federalists. Apparently they were all for a weak federal government, none of them wanted a strong independent central bank, and somehow managed to raise money without taxing Americans/Patriots. And someone please explain how you square "Give me liberty or give me death" with the Patriot Act?

432 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:51:14pm

re: #429 The Sanity Inspector

He's getting past his sell-by date, but P. J. O'Rourke was an example, in the 80s and 90s.

"Liberal" is, of course, one of those fine English words, like "lady" and "welfare", which have been spoiled by special pleading. When I say "liberals", I certainly don't mean openhanded individuals or tolerant people or even big-government Democrats. I mean people who are excited that 1 percent of the profits of Ben & Jerry's ice cream goes to promote world peace.
-- P. J. O'Rourke, Give War A Chance, 1992

True. O'Rourke is deeply funny.

433 ulmsey123  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:20:52pm

re: #300 windsagio

I certainly do!

Whats the difference between the Constitution and the September 1987 issue of Playboy?

One of them is 200 years older!

Nice crowd you're attracting, Charles. Feel vindicated?

434 ulmsey123  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:23:37pm

re: #297 Locker

Hard to ignore your -73 karma in 57 posts. Did you buy those troll Underroos at Target?

Judge me by popularity do you? Logic equals acceptance?

435 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:12:38pm

re: #434 ulmsey123

Judge me by popularity do you? Logic equals acceptance?

I get it. He's a Perl script hooked up to a Yoda text translator.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
2 days ago
Views: 104 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 270 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1