A carefully assembled series of CCTV videos from Dubai shows the mysterious hit team that assassinated Hamas terrorist Mahmoud al Mabhouh, as they arrive in Dubai, don disguises, and move about the city preparing for the operation.
(There are three parts in this playlist — hover over the video to see the arrows for the previous or next video in the list.)
1 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:36:43pm |
| 2 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:39:20pm |
| 4 |
darthstar Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:40:02pm |
Someone posted this in a comment this morning. I skimmed through the whole thing...pretty interesting stuff.
NPR covered the story as well. Israel and Mossad are denying involvement. The passports used by the team coincide with real Europeans with Israeli citizenship, apparently.
Fatah was also asked for a statement on this and they claim it was a Hamas team that made the hit. Accusations are flying in a lot of directions, but one can pretty much say that it was a professional job, and I certainly wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of whatever group pulled it off.
| 5 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:41:44pm |
I am shedding no tears over Mahmoud Al Mabhouh.
But I thought this was really creepy to watch.
| 7 |
darthstar Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:42:59pm |
re: #5 reine.de.tout
I am shedding no tears over Mahmoud Al Mabhouh.
But I thought this was really creepy to watch.
Agreed, and agreed. Creepy, and really freakin' scary.
| 8 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:43:51pm |
re: #4 darthstar
The shit still is hitting the fan after almost a month.
| 9 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:44:22pm |
Hm, they didn't leave any clues but were identified within 24 hours.
| 10 |
darthstar Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:44:24pm |
re: #8 MandyManners
The shit still is hitting the fan after almost a month.
The way this story is going, they're going to need a bigger fan.
| 11 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:44:38pm |
re: #7 darthstar
Agreed, and agreed. Creepy, and really freakin' scary.
I don't understand what's scary about it. It looks as if it came off seamlessly.
| 13 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:45:06pm |
re: #9 Unakite
Hm, they didn't leave any clues but were identified within 24 hours.
Intrawebbie thingy.
| 14 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:45:18pm |
And he died on a Jewish holiday.
Well, any day a Hamas terrorist dies OUGHT to be a Jewish holiday...
(Riffing on the old Hitler/fortune teller joke...)
| 15 |
Bob Dillon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:45:49pm |
Professional work on the team and the Dubai Police. Watched it several times yesterday and posted it in the links.
| 16 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:45:59pm |
re: #10 darthstar
The way this story is going, they're going to need a bigger fan.
Are they made that big?
| 17 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:45:59pm |
re: #11 MandyManners
I don't understand what's scary about it. It looks as if it came off seamlessly.
thus is the beauty of project management...
| 18 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:46:16pm |
re: #12 CommonMan
Good job "the mysterious hit team"!
I hope they're all kicking back on a sandy beach somewhere.
| 19 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:46:22pm |
re: #11 MandyManners
I think its scary as in 'its scary that this kind of thing can happen in this day and age'.
Seperate the hit from the target, and its really freakin' scary.
| 20 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:46:43pm |
| 21 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:47:25pm |
re: #18 MandyManners
I hope they're all kicking back on a sandy beach somewhere.
pay back is a beach?
| 22 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:47:29pm |
re: #19 windsagio
I think its scary as in 'its scary that this kind of thing can happen in this day and age'.
Seperate the hit from the target, and its really freakin' scary.
What's scary about it? A bad guy got what he had coming.
| 24 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:48:01pm |
| 25 |
darthstar Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:48:19pm |
re: #11 MandyManners
I don't understand what's scary about it. It looks as if it came off seamlessly.
I can think of one reason this kind of 'seamless' assassination is scary. And he wasn't born in Kenya. This is the kind of thing you read about in Tom Clancy novels...seeing it played out in real life frightens the fuck out of me.
| 27 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:48:27pm |
re: #11 MandyManners
I don't understand what's scary about it. It looks as if it came off seamlessly.
What I found creepy about it was how normal the folks looked - and how unconcerned they were at having carried out a planned and cold-blooded murder, even if the victim was scum himself. That just bothers my sense of my own conscience, I guess.
| 28 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:48:47pm |
re: #22 MandyManners
What's scary about it? A bad guy got what he had coming.
the scary part is that it took so long...
| 29 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:48:52pm |
re: #22 MandyManners
again, you have to seperate the hit from the target.
hrm; hows this: "I'd hate to be on the wrong side of whomever arranged this"
| 30 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:48:59pm |
re: #25 darthstar
I can think of one reason this kind of 'seamless' assassination is scary. And he wasn't born in Kenya. This is the kind of thing you read about in Tom Clancy novels...seeing it played out in real life frightens the fuck out of me.
It encourages me that the good guys are able to take out a true asshole with minimal muss and fuss.
| 31 |
shiplord kirel Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:49:38pm |
A really excellent piece of fieldcraft but 11 seems a huge number for an operation like this. On top of that the Dubai police say they are looking for 6 additional suspects.
NBC interviewed a British Israeli who was incensed that his name and data had been used on one of the team's fake passports.
| 32 |
waveriderca Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:49:59pm |
If you think thats scary try being a teenager in a dance club dancing one minute then the club blows up from some suicide bomber and most of your friends are dead.
| 34 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:51:13pm |
re: #29 windsagio
again, you have to seperate the hit from the target.
hrm; hows this: "I'd hate to be on the wrong side of whomever arranged this"
that seems to be the "take away" message...
| 35 |
darthstar Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:51:35pm |
re: #30 MandyManners
It encourages me that the good guys are able to take out a true asshole with minimal muss and fuss.
Agreed, but what happens when someone isn't a 'true asshole' and the 'good guys' aren't on the same side as you?
| 36 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:51:56pm |
The video text is hilarious. They admit the team didn't leave a clue, yet they make all these assumptions like: "They probably used sophisticated communications devices."
Those tricksy Israelis!
| 37 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:52:25pm |
How fitting. Mahmoud Al Mabhouh was born on Valentine's Day. What an angel.
| 38 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:53:32pm |
re: #32 waveriderca
If you think thats scary try being a teenager in a dance club dancing one minute then the club blows up from some suicide bomber and most of your friends are dead.
Oh, agreed!
Or being on a bus going home in the evening, and the bus blows up.
| 39 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:53:36pm |
re: #35 darthstar
Agreed, but what happens when someone isn't a 'true asshole' and the 'good guys' aren't on the same side as you?
well sometime I guess you gotta take sides, no?
| 40 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:55:15pm |
Ya think the terrorists are reevaluating their security protocols?
Being a terrorist has its risks, sometimes the good guys come for a visit.
| 41 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:56:08pm |
re: #35 darthstar
That's the real key to why its kinda scary.
Thinking otherwise is akin to the idea that 'only the guilty need to be afraid of oppressive police practices'
| 42 |
shiplord kirel Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:56:21pm |
Keep in mind that Dubai is still technically at war with Israel, not that any Dubaiundians (or whatever they call themselves) are likely to abandon their Maybachs and casinos long enough to take part in operations. There is also no doubt at all that Mabbouh was a lawful target. That makes this legal under international law.
The British Foreign Office is also huffing and puffing over the use of fake British passports by the hit team. I don't think it will go any farther than that though. Over at MI6, the professionals are probably murmuring "good show" and the like when nobody is listening.
| 43 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:56:32pm |
re: #38 reine.de.tout
Oh, agreed!
Or being on a bus going home in the evening, and the bus blows up.
or an air plane, or an office building, or a train, or walking to school, etc.
| 44 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:57:16pm |
It just seems to me that the Mossad would have got the job done with a much smaller team.
| 45 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:58:05pm |
mokri dela, as the Russkies used to - and still do - call it.
Masterful work.
| 46 |
darthstar Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:58:25pm |
re: #44 Alouette
It just seems to me that the Mossad would have got the job done with a much smaller team.
Well, they are denying any involvement.
| 47 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 4:59:17pm |
| 48 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:00:25pm |
re: #44 Alouette
It just seems to me that the Mossad would have got the job done with a much smaller team.
He was on Israel's most wanted list for awhile. Perhaps the large Mossad team wanted to spread his health around.
| 49 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:00:32pm |
re: #44 Alouette
It just seems to me that the Mossad would have got the job done with a much smaller team.
I dunno - to do what they did, where they did it, and to whom they did it - a good-sized team might have been necessary to cover all possible contingencies.
A hotel has a lot of activity - and a lot of security, in consequence. Just in order to avoid appearing conspicuous, you'd need to rotate folk.
| 50 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:00:36pm |
re: #44 Alouette
It just seems to me that the Mossad would have got the job done with a much smaller team.
And unnoticed.
| 51 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:00:44pm |
re: #47 brookly red
the surprise was them waiting so long to officially deny it :P
| 52 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:01:00pm |
| 53 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:01:22pm |
re: #50 reine.de.tout
c'mon, they're a powerful organization but they're not ninjas.
| 54 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:01:55pm |
re: #53 windsagio
c'mon, they're a powerful organization but they're not ninjas.
They are damned good, the best in the world probably.
| 55 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:02:29pm |
re: #51 windsagio
the surprise was them waiting so long to officially deny it :P
and they don't have nukes either...
| 56 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:02:34pm |
| 57 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:02:35pm |
re: #44 Alouette
It just seems to me that the Mossad would have got the job done with a much smaller team.
Those videos are probably just random people there on business.
| 58 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:03:15pm |
re: #53 windsagio
c'mon, they're a powerful organization but they're not ninjas.
/outsourcing... hmmm that could work too.
| 59 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:03:55pm |
re: #55 brookly red
Totally! Altho' thats about the worst kept secret in the world >>
| 60 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:04:02pm |
Damn, they locked and chained the door from the inside. That's impressive.
| 61 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:04:04pm |
re: #44 Alouette
It just seems to me that the Mossad would have got the job done with a much smaller team.
Well It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy..
/
| 62 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:04:08pm |
re: #58 brookly red
/outsourcing... hmmm that could work too.
Could these be 11 of those jobs saved or created?
(i'm kidding, altho', if BHO poured money toward these types of efforts, I'd support him whole-heartedly in it.)
| 63 |
Buck Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:04:37pm |
So.... any other Hamas want to come out of their mothers basements?
| 65 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:05:15pm |
re: #56 Guanxi88
It never hurts to cultivate the reputation of superhuman effectiveness; never hurts at all.
/ Q: is it better to be respected or feared?
| 66 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:05:36pm |
| 67 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:05:41pm |
If this was "Red-on-Red" as was speculated on earlier, let me say that so long as they keep such incidents clean and free of danger to civilians, I can wholeheartedly support that, as well.
| 68 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:05:53pm |
re: #61 HoosierHoops
Well It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy..
/
Agreed, and investigation is unnecessary, let's move on to the awards ceremony.
| 69 |
Buck Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:06:02pm |
re: #65 brookly red
/ Q: is it better to be respected or feared?
/Q: is it too much to ask for both?
| 70 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:06:13pm |
re: #62 Guanxi88
Could these be 11 of those jobs saved or created?
(i'm kidding, altho', if BHO poured money toward these types of efforts, I'd support him whole-heartedly in it.)
I don't think Mossad is unionized...
| 71 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:06:31pm |
re: #65 brookly red
/ Q: is it better to be respected or feared?
Easy: feared. To be loved or respected depends on others, but to be feared depends only on you.
Least, that's what my buddy Nick told me.
| 72 |
Joo-LiZ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:06:53pm |
There were 6 British Passports, 3 Irish, a French, and a German passport used.
From what I understand, the ONLY identification they've been able to use has been those passports. (... To the peeps who are saying "they didn't leave a trace, but were identified in 24 hours)
The Irish passports were all completely fake. The Germans said the number given didn't have the correct number of digits, nor did it have letters which are standard in German passports.
The British passports have fake numbers but the names all seem to match with Israeli's who recently immigrated from Britain.
If this was a Mossad hit, it doesn't make sense to me for them to have used recent immigrants' identities. That is like painting an arrow straight at Israel. Plus, I don't buy that they didn't know Dubai is covered with video cameras. I think whoever did this (assuming it wasn't the Mossad), knew exactly what they were doing and wanted people to look in Israel's direction.
Either way, Mabhouh was a thug, and two weeks prior had recorded a video in which he admitted to the kidnap and murder of two Israeli soldiers. The world is well rid of him.
I find it interesting how WHENEVER a bad guy dies, it's always the Mossad's fault. As if they are the only intelligence service out there, or the only people with hit squads.
| 73 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:07:04pm |
| 74 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:07:05pm |
re: #70 brookly red
I don't think Mossad is unionized...
Don't think Aykroyd's efforts in Grosse Pointe Blank were all for naught, do you?
| 76 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:08:43pm |
Were there surveillance cams in the stairwells?
It just seems to me that a hit team would scope out all the video cams, and all the going up and down in the elevators by various random disguised people is just a distraction while the real hit team used the stairs.
I read whole bunch of spy thriller novels.
| 77 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:09:54pm |
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
Either way, Mabhouh was a thug, and two weeks prior had recorded a video in which he admitted to the kidnap and murder of two Israeli soldiers. The world is well rid of him.
Well said! And the team should be commended for not having to use techniques that may have had unintended casualties.
| 78 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:09:56pm |
re: #76 Alouette
Were there surveillance cams in the stairwells?
It just seems to me that a hit team would scope out all the video cams, and all the going up and down in the elevators by various random disguised people is just a distraction while the real hit team used the stairs.
I read whole bunch of spy thriller novels.
Joo-Liz covered it in this very good post:
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
There were 6 British Passports, 3 Irish, a French, and a German passport used.
From what I understand, the ONLY identification they've been able to use has been those passports. (... To the peeps who are saying "they didn't leave a trace, but were identified in 24 hours)
The Irish passports were all completely fake. The Germans said the number given didn't have the correct number of digits, nor did it have letters which are standard in German passports.
The British passports have fake numbers but the names all seem to match with Israeli's who recently immigrated from Britain.
If this was a Mossad hit, it doesn't make sense to me for them to have used recent immigrants' identities. That is like painting an arrow straight at Israel. Plus, I don't buy that they didn't know Dubai is covered with video cameras. I think whoever did this (assuming it wasn't the Mossad), knew exactly what they were doing and wanted people to look in Israel's direction.
Either way, Mabhouh was a thug, and two weeks prior had recorded a video in which he admitted to the kidnap and murder of two Israeli soldiers. The world is well rid of him.
I find it interesting how WHENEVER a bad guy dies, it's always the Mossad's fault. As if they are the only intelligence service out there, or the only people with hit squads.
| 79 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:10:17pm |
re: #75 brookly red
not 100% sure about the sentiment, but the wordplay was brilliant ;)
| 80 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:10:19pm |
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
Why not Canadian Passports?
You can be anybody...Heck Santa Claus has one...
/
| 81 |
sandbox Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:10:21pm |
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
Right. It appears to neat with fake passports pointing toward Israel. If not Israeli Mossad, then who did it?
| 82 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:10:22pm |
re: #36 Bagua
The video text is hilarious. They admit the team didn't leave a clue, yet they make all these assumptions like: "They probably used sophisticated communications devices."
Those tricksy Israelis!
I thought I saw "Gail" and "Kevin" signing.
| 83 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:11:43pm |
I hope it wasn't fast. I hope he knew who it was and why it was happening.
| 84 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:11:59pm |
re: #81 sandbox
Right. It appears to neat with fake passports pointing toward Israel. If not Israeli Mossad, then who did it?
/death panels!
| 85 |
Joo-LiZ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:12:09pm |
re: #81 sandbox
Right. It appears to neat with fake passports pointing toward Israel. If not Israeli Mossad, then who did it?
That's what I've been wondering... I kinda woulda LIKED it to be the Mossad. Have Hamas shaking in their booties, but cause of the reasons I gave before, I really don't think it was them. Could have been any number of people though. I've heard speculation that some other Arab states wanted him dead, and I'm sure being in the arms smuggling business, he would have no shortage of enemies.
| 86 |
Buck Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:12:14pm |
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
Plus, I don't buy that they didn't know Dubai is covered with video cameras. I think whoever did this (assuming it wasn't the Mossad), knew exactly what they were doing and wanted people to look in Israel's direction.
Unless they knew that we would think that, and purposely pointed to themselves to make us think they wouldn't do that...
-Control handbook
| 87 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:12:27pm |
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
I find it interesting how WHENEVER a bad guy dies, it's always the Mossad's fault. As if they are the only intelligence service out there, or the only people with hit squads.
You have to admit, Mossad is the logical suspect >>
| 88 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:13:04pm |
re: #35 darthstar
Agreed, but what happens when someone isn't a 'true asshole' and the 'good guys' aren't on the same side as you?
Tell you what. I don't live my life plotting ways to blow Jews and infidels to bits so I'm not worried about it.
| 89 |
Jadespring Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:13:15pm |
re: #81 sandbox
Right. It appears to neat with fake passports pointing toward Israel. If not Israeli Mossad, then who did it?
We'll likely never really know.
| 90 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:13:29pm |
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
There were 6 British Passports, 3 Irish, a French, and a German passport used.
From what I understand, the ONLY identification they've been able to use has been those passports. (... To the peeps who are saying "they didn't leave a trace, but were identified in 24 hours)
The Irish passports were all completely fake. The Germans said the number given didn't have the correct number of digits, nor did it have letters which are standard in German passports.
The British passports have fake numbers but the names all seem to match with Israeli's who recently immigrated from Britain.
If this was a Mossad hit, it doesn't make sense to me for them to have used recent immigrants' identities. That is like painting an arrow straight at Israel. Plus, I don't buy that they didn't know Dubai is covered with video cameras. I think whoever did this (assuming it wasn't the Mossad), knew exactly what they were doing and wanted people to look in Israel's direction.
Either way, Mabhouh was a thug, and two weeks prior had recorded a video in which he admitted to the kidnap and murder of two Israeli soldiers. The world is well rid of him.
I find it interesting how WHENEVER a bad guy dies, it's always the Mossad's fault. As if they are the only intelligence service out there, or the only people with hit squads.
Hey, I'm on your side. I was just joking about some of the text in the video. :)
| 91 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:13:31pm |
So... everyone is alright with this sort of hit team, one we can't even match up to the possible source or government, doing something like this?
| 92 |
Joo-LiZ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:13:43pm |
re: #83 MandyManners
I hope it wasn't fast. I hope he knew who it was and why it was happening.
They spent something like 10 minutes in the room.
Various reports on cause-of-death. The family says it was electrocution, Dubai says there is evidence of suffocation, and they are examining the body for potential poisons.
All are favorites of the Mossad. (The only 'Mossad' tactics missing seems to be the point-and-shoot with a gun, or the precision bomb)
| 93 |
darthstar Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:13:44pm |
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
Well said. And I don't think anyone here is worried about Mabhou's welfare...besides, it's a little late for that. Fucker's dead. No matter who killed him.
| 94 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:13:46pm |
re: #27 reine.de.tout
What I found creepy about it was how normal the folks looked - and how unconcerned they were at having carried out a planned and cold-blooded murder, even if the victim was scum himself. That just bothers my sense of my own conscience, I guess.
It's just war on another front.
| 96 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:14:40pm |
re: #82 Alouette
I thought I saw "Gail" and "Kevin" signing.
Probably just random tourists chosen by the security people. But if they were involved, they were certainly competent.
| 97 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:14:48pm |
re: #91 Walter L. Newton
So... everyone is alright with this sort of hit team, one we can't even match up to the possible source or government, doing something like this?
In the case of Hamas, I'm just dandy with it.
| 98 |
Joo-LiZ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:14:49pm |
re: #90 Unakite
Yeah, I know, that wasn't meant to come out in an aggressive tone at all. Sometimes the internet is tricky with that sort of thing.
Still, you were joking, but other people might have been wondering.
| 99 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:14:59pm |
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
There were 6 British Passports, 3 Irish, a French, and a German passport used.
From what I understand, the ONLY identification they've been able to use has been those passports. (... To the peeps who are saying "they didn't leave a trace, but were identified in 24 hours)
The Irish passports were all completely fake. The Germans said the number given didn't have the correct number of digits, nor did it have letters which are standard in German passports.
The British passports have fake numbers but the names all seem to match with Israeli's who recently immigrated from Britain.
If this was a Mossad hit, it doesn't make sense to me for them to have used recent immigrants' identities. That is like painting an arrow straight at Israel. Plus, I don't buy that they didn't know Dubai is covered with video cameras. I think whoever did this (assuming it wasn't the Mossad), knew exactly what they were doing and wanted people to look in Israel's direction.
Either way, Mabhouh was a thug, and two weeks prior had recorded a video in which he admitted to the kidnap and murder of two Israeli soldiers. The world is well rid of him.
I find it interesting how WHENEVER a bad guy dies, it's always the Mossad's fault. As if they are the only intelligence service out there, or the only people with hit squads.
/ send in the drones... there should be drones... don't bother, their here.
| 100 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:15:41pm |
I wonder if George Jonas is thinking of a follow-up to Vengeance.
| 101 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:16:00pm |
re: #95 Cato the Elder
May we see many sequels.
Really? What if it was Fatah. What if many more sequels are some important people in Israel, or the US or whatever.
Since we don't know the source of this hit team, isn't this celebration a little premature?
| 102 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:16:16pm |
re: #93 darthstar
Well said. And I don't think anyone here is worried about Mabhou's welfare...besides, it's a little late for that. Fucker's dead. No matter who killed him.
/3 to 1 he still votes in Chicago...
| 103 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:16:57pm |
| 104 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:17:00pm |
re: #92 Joo-LiZ
They spent something like 10 minutes in the room.
Various reports on cause-of-death. The family says it was electrocution, Dubai says there is evidence of suffocation, and they are examining the body for potential poisons.
All are favorites of the Mossad. (The only 'Mossad' tactics missing seems to be the point-and-shoot with a gun, or the precision bomb)
Last I heard some laboratory in Europe had identified the poison.
| 105 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:17:02pm |
re: #94 MandyManners
It's just war on another front.
This is true.
But I'm sorry, I just found it creepy to watch - it was also absolutely fascinating, I watched all 3 parts earlier this morning. But creepy all the same, thinking that these sorts of things can go on around you and you would never have a clue.
| 106 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:17:03pm |
re: #91 Walter L. Newton
So... everyone is alright with this sort of hit team, one we can't even match up to the possible source or government, doing something like this?
If the target is a known terrorist, then I don't expect we need be troubled by the operation if there is no collateral damage.
It it was Fatah then their paychecks should be approved from the looks of it.
| 107 |
sandbox Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:17:41pm |
re: #85 Joo-LiZ
Were there any bodyguards for Mabhouh? He was alone in his room?
| 108 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:17:56pm |
re: #35 darthstar
Agreed, but what happens when someone isn't a 'true asshole' and the 'good guys' aren't on the same side as you?
We take that chance with everything we do. This is minimal to zip collateral damage, something more conventional warfare is unable to match.
| 109 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:18:13pm |
re: #91 Walter L. Newton
So... everyone is alright with this sort of hit team, one we can't even match up to the possible source or government, doing something like this?
When bad things like this happen to bad people like this, I get a happy.
I even get a Chris Matthews-style thrill up my leg.
And I'm not ashamed to admit it.
| 110 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:18:14pm |
OT:
One of the only two houses on my block where no one has even attempted to clear the snow and ice belongs to a certain John C.M. Angelos, Esq. Son of the guy who owns the Ravens. The other is right next door and may belong to him too. Public shaming, anyone?
| 111 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:18:35pm |
re: #97 Cato the Elder
In the case of Hamas, I'm just dandy with it.
Interesting... but if our CIA is involved with some special rendition program with other countries, the left is screaming. But, as long as the bad guys are getting offed, even though we don't know nothing about the hit team, the source of their command, we don't know nothing, but we are going to cheer this?
Sick.
| 112 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:18:59pm |
| 113 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:19:04pm |
re: #97 Cato the Elder
In the case of Hamas, I'm just dandy with it.
I love a story with a happy ending!!!
| 114 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:19:29pm |
re: #109 BunnyThief
When bad things like this happen to bad people like this, I get a happy.
I even get a Chris Matthews-style thrill up my leg.
And I'm not ashamed to admit it.
Figures.
| 115 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:19:32pm |
re: #111 Walter L. Newton
Absolutely true. Things like this should never be 'aha the victim was somebody I didn't like!'
| 116 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:19:51pm |
re: #101 Walter L. Newton
Really? What if it was Fatah. What if many more sequels are some important people in Israel, or the US or whatever.
Since we don't know the source of this hit team, isn't this celebration a little premature?
I have no problem with terrorist groups killing each other, as long as they do it in a responsible manner that avoids innocents being hurt.
Violence is their choice, not our. Let them fight each other if they want. My reaction would be to stock up on popcorn and butter.
| 117 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:19:55pm |
| 118 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:19:56pm |
re: #62 Guanxi88
Could these be 11 of those jobs saved or created?
(i'm kidding, altho', if BHO poured money toward these types of efforts, I'd support him whole-heartedly in it.)
If he is, you won't know for a while.
| 119 |
Joo-LiZ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:20:08pm |
re: #107 sandbox
Yeah he was alone. When this story broke in Middle Eastern Press a couple days after the incident, Hamas was all in a tizzy. They didn't understand how he could have not had body-guards and apparently broke protocol to send urgent messages to all their top-leaders warning them to keep an eye out.
Hamas was speculating a VERY high level breach within their own organization, and I think the Dubai police chief even said "If this guy was so important, why didn't he have bodyguards?" (I remember SOMEBODY saying it)
| 120 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:20:11pm |
re: #115 windsagio
Absolutely true. Things like this should never be 'aha the victim was somebody I didn't like!'
He's a terrorist. Let's not refer to him as a "victim".
| 121 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:20:32pm |
re: #111 Walter L. Newton
Interesting... but if our CIA is involved with some special rendition program with other countries, the left is screaming. But, as long as the bad guys are getting offed, even though we don't know nothing about the hit team, the source of their command, we don't know nothing, but we are going to cheer this?
Sick.
Hip, hip, hooray!
Hip, hip, hooray!
Hip, hip, hooray!
For they're a jolly good hit squad,
For they're a jolly good hit squad,
For they're a jolly good hit squad,
Which nobody can deny!
| 122 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:20:52pm |
re: #105 reine.de.tout
This is true.
But I'm sorry, I just found it creepy to watch - it was also absolutely fascinating, I watched all 3 parts earlier this morning. But creepy all the same, thinking that these sorts of things can go on around you and you would never have a clue.
To me, that makes it all the more intriguing.
| 123 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:21:02pm |
re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist
We take that chance with everything we do. This is minimal to zip collateral damage, something more conventional warfare is unable to match.
And then there's intentional collateral damage.
| 124 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:21:18pm |
re: #107 sandbox
Were there any bodyguards for Mabhouh? He was alone in his room?
He left his bodyguard at home.
| 125 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:21:35pm |
re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist
If he is, you won't know for a while.
I still think, much as I disagree with him, that he's a Left-Hawk.
Drone-strikes: all to the good, and more of 'em, please.
New protocols for detainees: all but guarantee they DON'T get taken alive.
Marine Recon teams (presumably, actual agents unknown): snuffin gout baddie son the ground in Somalia.
| 126 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:22:02pm |
re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist
Sometimes you want to be seen.
Everything we know about this hit we are meant to know. Make no mistake.
| 127 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:22:05pm |
re: #91 Walter L. Newton
So... everyone is alright with this sort of hit team, one we can't even match up to the possible source or government, doing something like this?
Clearly, several people in the thread are not.
Me, I have complex feelings, but no one has asked me. Except here. Where we make no decisions.
| 128 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:22:35pm |
re: #111 Walter L. Newton
Interesting... but if our CIA is involved with some special rendition program with other countries, the left is screaming. But, as long as the bad guys are getting offed, even though we don't know nothing about the hit team, the source of their command, we don't know nothing, but we are going to cheer this?
Sick.
You see, this is where I break with certain conservative values. "When bad things like this happen to bad people like this, I get a happy." At what point is something happening to bad people beyond the pale? At what point do you make the decision what is ok to do to bad people.
No, this kind of thinking is broken.
| 129 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:22:41pm |
re: #120 rwdflynavy
fine 'target'. The point is the same.
Also, are you saying criminals can't be victims?
| 130 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:23:02pm |
re: #125 Guanxi88
Marine Recon teams (presumably, actual agents unknown): snuffin gout baddie son the ground in Somalia.
PIMF: ...snuffing out baddies on the ground in Somalia.
| 131 |
TampaKnight Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:23:05pm |
Speaking of drones, I fear our DOD is putting way too much emphasis on UAVs and are giving them too much credit for their effectiveness in any future conventional warfare.
The day that our DOD is convinced that a drone can replace an F-16 is a bad, bad day.
| 132 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:23:18pm |
re: #106 Bagua
If the target is a known terrorist, then I don't expect we need be troubled by the operation if there is no collateral damage.
It it was Fatah then their paychecks should be approved from the looks of it.
If it was Fatah, I'm not too surprised.
| 133 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:23:29pm |
re: #129 windsagio
fine 'target'. The point is the same.
Also, are you saying criminals can't be victims?
No, I'm saying terrorists can't be victims.
| 134 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:23:37pm |
re: #116 Bagua
I have no problem with terrorist groups killing each other, as long as they do it in a responsible manner that avoids innocents being hurt.
Violence is their choice, not our. Let them fight each other if they want. My reaction would be to stock up on popcorn and butter.
Should our CIA arrange a hit on, oh let's say, Hugo?
| 135 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:23:42pm |
How many people are dead thanks to this man? How many will not die at his hands thanks to those who killed him?
| 136 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:23:43pm |
He went to Dubai, that notorious place of "anything goes," without even his bodyguards...
Could he have been planning on indulging in some personal vice that would get him in huge trouble with his fellow terrorists?
Pure speculation, but a fun one...
| 137 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:23:57pm |
re: #129 windsagio
fine 'target'. The point is the same.
Also, are you saying criminals can't be victims?
shoplifters maybe, terrorists, not so much.
| 138 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:24:00pm |
re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist
If it was Fatah, I'm not too surprised.
Little bit of pay-back for tossing their guys off roof-tops in Gaza? It may be.
| 139 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:24:03pm |
re: #109 BunnyThief
When bad things like this happen to bad people like this, I get a happy.
I even get a Chris Matthews-style thrill up my leg.
And I'm not ashamed to admit it.
Personally I do not celebrate or enjoy the taking of life, even the enemy, I never hand out sweets. I do however feel a deep sense of satisfaction and feel the need to declare loudly "Job well done" in honour of those who risk their lives with such difficult and important work.
God protect Israel and the United States and their friends and allies from the curse of terrorism.
| 140 |
sandbox Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:24:03pm |
re: #119 Joo-LiZ
So 11 operatives go into Dubia to kill one terrorist who, it turns out, has no body guard? The next thing someone will say is that Mahboud registered in the hotel in his own name. Hm.........
| 141 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:24:24pm |
| 142 |
Ojoe Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:24:38pm |
| 143 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:24:50pm |
re: #134 Walter L. Newton
Should our CIA arrange a hit on, oh let's say, Hugo?
If he started snuffing out our folk, then I'm not sure it would bother me too awful much.
| 144 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:24:52pm |
re: #134 Walter L. Newton
Should our CIA arrange a hit on, oh let's say, Hugo?
That would be against our laws.
| 145 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:25:00pm |
He likely was a very intelligent man but, he put that intellect to use figuring out ways how to kill civlians. Fuck him. He chose his fate.
| 146 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:25:07pm |
Well, at least he wasn't waterboarded.
| 147 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:25:14pm |
re: #134 Walter L. Newton
Should our CIA arrange a hit on, oh let's say, Hugo?
I would suggest outsourcing...
| 148 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:25:33pm |
re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist
Clearly, several people in the thread are not.
Me, I have complex feelings, but no one has asked me. Except here. Where we make no decisions.
My feelings are a bit complex too, I find I can't really explain myself well enough to say much more than I have already, which boils down to:
The guy needed to be taken out of the picture; but the video of that team of folks wandering around Dubai trying to kill him is just creepy to watch.
| 149 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:25:41pm |
re: #144 rwdflynavy
That would be against our laws.
How do you know that the CIA didn't arrange this hit? I guess even if they did, it wouldn't bother too many Lizards here.
| 150 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:25:54pm |
re: #136 BunnyThief
He went to Dubai, that notorious place of "anything goes," without even his bodyguards...
Could he have been planning on indulging in some personal vice that would get him in huge trouble with his fellow terrorists?
Pure speculation, but a fun one...
Never been to Dubai but know people who have. Probably good speculation.
| 151 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:26:21pm |
re: #140 sandbox
So 11 operatives go into Dubia to kill one terrorist who, it turns out, has no body guard? The next thing someone will say is that Mahboud registered in the hotel in his own name. Hm...
pride cometh before the fall...
| 152 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:26:24pm |
re: #143 Guanxi88
If he started snuffing out our folk, then I'm not sure it would bother me too awful much.
I didn't ask that.
| 153 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:26:25pm |
re: #139 Bagua
OK, maybe I was exaggerating a little. Walter's sanctimoniousness irritated me, and I felt the need to poke a little hole in that balloon. My true sentiment was a bit closer to yours.
I did, however, do a little happy dance when Saddam Hussein was hanged. And did celebrate a little when Yassir Arafat finally took the big dirt nap.
| 154 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:26:31pm |
re: #149 Walter L. Newton
That's the exact point.
The only rule seems to be 'did he need killing?'
Thats not how things should work.
| 155 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:26:38pm |
re: #149 Walter L. Newton
How do you know that the CIA didn't arrange this hit? I guess even if they did, it wouldn't bother too many Lizards here.
Hugo is a government leader. This guy is a terrorist douche-bag. An important distinction.
| 156 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:26:56pm |
| 157 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:27:00pm |
re: #135 MandyManners
How many people are dead thanks to this man? How many will not die at his hands thanks to those who killed him?
But...what about his international rights to remain silent, legal representation, a fair and speedy trial...
Well, at least the remain silent part has been realized.
| 158 |
TampaKnight Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:27:15pm |
Chavez doesn't need to be killed, his economic doctrine will sink him soon enough.
| 159 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:27:22pm |
re: #152 Walter L. Newton
I didn't ask that.
True, but it's the only circumstance under which I think I could support assassinating the guy. Otherwise, as a (semi-) civilized people, we have to avoid doing that sort of thing.
| 160 |
Ojoe Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:27:49pm |
re: #154 windsagio
The world does not yet at this time work as it should.
| 161 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:27:53pm |
re: #155 rwdflynavy
Hugo is a government leader. This guy is a terrorist douche-bag. An important distinction.
That's not what I asked, why can't you answer the question with a straight answer.
Let's try a new question. Would it be ok if you discovered that our CIA arranged this hit?
| 162 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:27:56pm |
re: #111 Walter L. Newton
Interesting... but if our CIA is involved with some special rendition program with other countries, the left is screaming. But, as long as the bad guys are getting offed, even though we don't know nothing about the hit team, the source of their command, we don't know nothing, but we are going to cheer this?
Sick.
Double standards. Fire a few missiles from a predator and maybe kill a few terrorists along with 6 by standers and it is hardly worthy of debate. Slap a terrorist in custody who just tried to blow up an airliner and the concern is deep and endless and our whole system of rights and laws is in danger.
| 163 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:28:31pm |
re: #161 Walter L. Newton
That's not what I asked, why can't you answer the question with a straight answer.
Let's try a new question. Would it be ok if you discovered that our CIA arranged this hit?
Yes, I would be 100% fine with that.
| 164 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:28:34pm |
re: #161 Walter L. Newton
Let's try a new question. Would it be ok if you discovered that our CIA arranged this hit?
Or what if you discovered that the CIA had, on numerous occasions, tried to assasinate Castro?
| 165 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:28:44pm |
re: #153 BunnyThief
OK, maybe I was exaggerating a little. Walter's sanctimoniousness irritated me, and I felt the need to poke a little hole in that balloon. My true sentiment was a bit closer to yours.
I did, however, do a little happy dance when Saddam Hussein was hanged. And did celebrate a little when Yassir Arafat finally took the big dirt nap.
Tough shit, fluff off the question by claiming I was being sanctimoniousness... always makes it easier than debating the actual topic.
| 166 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:29:03pm |
| 167 |
darthstar Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:29:07pm |
Time for me to head out. Play nice, everyone.
Try not to get too excited over assassinations...I'd hate to encourage the people who did this to branch out into other areas of motivation for hits - political, commercial, etc.
| 168 |
TampaKnight Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:29:14pm |
re: #162 Bagua
Double standards. Fire a few missiles from a predator and maybe kill a few terrorists along with 6 by standers and it is hardly worthy of debate. Slap a terrorist in custody who just tried to blow up an airliner and the concern is deep and endless and our whole system of rights and laws is in danger.
Where are we picking off by standers? We're not just shooting sidewinders into towns.
| 169 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:29:18pm |
re: #164 windsagio
Or what if you discovered that the CIA had, on numerous occasions, tried to assasinate Castro?
I don't think that should come as any great surprise; it's how we used to play the game.
| 170 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:29:31pm |
| 171 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:29:39pm |
re: #164 windsagio
Or what if you discovered that the CIA had, on numerous occasions, tried to assasinate Castro?
You can't be on the same thread as me without arguing with me, can you, no matter what point of view I have...
| 172 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:29:42pm |
re: #160 Ojoe
So because bad things can happen we're allowed to cheer for bad things happening? That's not a very moral position to take :P
| 173 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:29:59pm |
re: #161 Walter L. Newton
That's not what I asked, why can't you answer the question with a straight answer.
Let's try a new question. Would it be ok if you discovered that our CIA arranged this hit?
It is against the law for the CIA to assassinate a government leader. This guy is a legitimate target. I have no problem with this hit, be it CIA, Mossad or the Denver Ladies Knitting Circle Auxiliary.
| 174 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:30:18pm |
re: #171 Walter L. Newton
You can't be on the same thread as me without arguing with me, can you, no matter what point of view I have...
SOP
| 175 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:30:41pm |
re: #171 Walter L. Newton
I was trying to help! Its a supporting example!
I know its eerie, but I'm 100% with you on this one.
| 176 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:31:01pm |
re: #149 Walter L. Newton
How do you know that the CIA didn't arrange this hit? I guess even if they did, it wouldn't bother too many Lizards here.
Because they pulled it off and there was no collateral damage?
/JUST KIDDING.
| 177 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:31:09pm |
re: #169 Guanxi88
the point was, that I"m pretty sure they did, and that it came out in the '70s and '80s that they did :P
| 178 |
Ojoe Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:31:30pm |
re: #172 windsagio
It will be a rough road to get to the world where all morals are fine. I won't see that destination in my lifetime.
| 179 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:31:41pm |
re: #177 windsagio
the point was, that I"m pretty sure they did, and that it came out in the '70s and '80s that they did :P
Yeah, of course. Again, that's how we used to play the game. Losing Kennedy put that whole thing into perspective.
| 180 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:32:04pm |
Walter, the world is a better place with this guy at room temperature. I approve of that state, the manner in which it was achieved, and the people who killed him in such a precise way that absolutely no innocents were even slightly endangered.
If you wanna call that "celebrating," then I'll not only accept that, but run with it. You will not make me ashamed of it, and if it so suits me (which it did), I will even mock you a little in the process.
He was allegedly there to buy weapons. He didn't get them. How many innocents might have died had your morality prevailed?
| 181 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:32:27pm |
re: #175 windsagio
I was trying to help! Its a supporting example!
I know its eerie, but I'm 100% with you on this one.
Then I may have to reconsider my position. Something is definitely wrong.
| 182 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:32:40pm |
re: #153 BunnyThief
OK, maybe I was exaggerating a little. Walter's sanctimoniousness irritated me, and I felt the need to poke a little hole in that balloon. My true sentiment was a bit closer to yours.
I did, however, do a little happy dance when Saddam Hussein was hanged. And did celebrate a little when Yassir Arafat finally took the big dirt nap.
No, Walter was making a different point that addresses the conversation here on related issues.
Saddam and Arafat are exceptions from my do not rejoice rule, they were mass murderers and there should be a holiday commemorating their departure.
| 183 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:32:48pm |
re: #181 Walter L. Newton
lol thats what I was thinking too :p
| 184 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:32:58pm |
re: #181 Walter L. Newton
Then I may have to reconsider my position. Something is definitely wrong.
Now that deserves an upding!
| 185 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:33:08pm |
re: #181 Walter L. Newton
Then I may have to reconsider my position. Something is definitely wrong.
Maybe he's trying to trick you into a wrong position; or you're trying to trick him, or something.
| 186 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:33:36pm |
re: #146 Killgore Trout
Well, at least he wasn't waterboarded.
You have once again hit the nail upon its head!
| 188 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:34:02pm |
re: #185 Guanxi88
Maybe he's trying to trick you into a wrong position; or you're trying to trick him, or something.
so many people to juggle...it's boggling
| 189 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:34:30pm |
re: #146 Killgore Trout
Well, at least he wasn't waterboarded.
Good thing, too. He'd still be alive.
| 190 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:34:45pm |
| 191 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:34:48pm |
re: #161 Walter L. Newton
That's not what I asked, why can't you answer the question with a straight answer.
Let's try a new question. Would it be ok if you discovered that our CIA arranged this hit?
Let me answer you directly, Walter. I would not be pleased, although if I were president you might be able to make a specific case to me involving an immediate credible threat to the security of the United States. I do not like assassination as a political weapon, and prefer that the U.S. not have truck with it.
The CIA is the only agency that has such capacities that I pay taxes for the maintenance of, so I consider myself to have a sort of diluted or shared say in their doings. I do not have such a relationship with Mossad, or Fatah, or the Brits, or the Iranians. Therefore, watching their actions is, for me, mere political tracking.
Won't shed a tear for this guy. Who killed him, or who is believed to have killed him is politically interesting to me.
| 192 |
researchok Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:34:53pm |
To paraphrase Obama, when we find OBL, we'll blow his sorry ass to kingdom come wherever he is.
There's a reason Nasrallah hides out in a rat hole.
You wanna play, you gotta pay.
| 193 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:34:53pm |
re: #180 BunnyThief
Walter, the world is a better place with this guy at room temperature. I approve of that state, the manner in which it was achieved, and the people who killed him in such a precise way that absolutely no innocents were even slightly endangered.
If you wanna call that "celebrating," then I'll not only accept that, but run with it. You will not make me ashamed of it, and if it so suits me (which it did), I will even mock you a little in the process.
He was allegedly there to buy weapons. He didn't get them. How many innocents might have died had your morality prevailed?
I'm not trying to make you ashamed of anything. You are the one who seems to find the need to explain yourself two or three times. I simply have an opinion, and you are the one who ran around in circles doing a little happy dance.
Or are you saying you are dancing to my tune? I have that much power over you. No, of course not. Be proud of your position and don't blame you little patty cake hand wring on me.
| 194 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:34:56pm |
Want
| 195 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:35:19pm |
re: #164 windsagio
Or what if you discovered that the CIA had, on numerous occasions, tried to assasinate Castro?
Haven't they?
| 196 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:35:48pm |
There's a gigantic murder of crows buzzing my neighborhood. Thousands of croaking corvids.
| 197 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:35:55pm |
| 198 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:36:00pm |
I thinks this guys liquidation was justified...and further it doesn't matter who does it...it was nice and clean...excellent room service imo
| 199 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:36:49pm |
re: #185 Guanxi88
Maybe he's trying to trick you into a wrong position; or you're trying to trick him, or something.
In this time line we I can't stand windbagio, but maybe in a flash aside time line we are really friends, or brothers, or even a married gay couple. Isn't science fiction fun.
| 200 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:37:04pm |
re: #196 Charles
There's a gigantic murder of crows buzzing my neighborhood. Thousands of croaking corvids.
My spell worked.
| 201 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:37:09pm |
I think the issue at stake here is going from the reaction ("I'm glad that bastard is dead!") to considering the ethical ramifications of that reaction.
That transition would naturally be a bit bumpy >>
| 202 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:37:10pm |
re: #197 windsagio
I'm clearly a mentat.
Great! A mentat & a Navigator all in one!
And here I thought Paul's sand-trout trick hung the (second) moon.
| 203 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:37:27pm |
re: #168 TampaKnight
Where are we picking off by standers? We're not just shooting sidewinders into towns.
The problem is getting the enemy to stand all by themselves in open fields.
When we took out al-Zarqawi, his sixteen-year-old wife was in the house, IIRC.
If we'd had the opportunity to kill his ass by more direct means, and leave her alive, would it have been more or less immoral?
| 204 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:37:42pm |
re: #196 Charles
Maybe a parliment of rooks will show up to scare them off. Or a stare of owls. Maybe a mutation of thrushes.
| 205 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:37:59pm |
re: #150 Unakite
Never been to Dubai but know people who have. Probably good speculation.
Not only that but they feel safe there.
| 206 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:38:40pm |
re: #202 Guanxi88
Wasn't it Piter who said that? >> its been a while :p
| 207 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:38:42pm |
re: #196 Charles
There's a gigantic murder of crows buzzing my neighborhood. Thousands of croaking corvids.
Check to see if there's a blonde freaking in the playground. She looks a bit like a less-pretty Grace Kelly.
| 208 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:38:43pm |
re: #204 Obdicut
Maybe a parliment of rooks will show up to scare them off. Or a stare of owls. Maybe a mutation of thrushes.
Or an ostentation of peacocks.
| 209 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:38:49pm |
re: #205 Bagua
Not only that but they feel safe there.
I think it might be time to put a past tense on that sentiment...
| 210 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:38:53pm |
re: #173 rwdflynavy
It is against the law for the CIA to assassinate a government leader. This guy is a legitimate target. I have no problem with this hit, be it CIA, Mossad or the Denver Ladies Knitting Circle Auxiliary.
The DLKCA has their own signatures. Now, if this guy had been stabbed through the heart with a single knitting needle...
| 211 |
Joo-LiZ Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:39:01pm |
re: #204 Obdicut
Maybe a parliment of rooks will show up to scare them off. Or a stare of owls. Maybe a mutation of thrushes.
What is that called? The words used to describe a group of things?
Plus: a parliament of rooks? Really? What is a Rook, outside of the chess context?
| 212 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:39:35pm |
| 213 |
TampaKnight Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:39:40pm |
re: #203 SanFranciscoZionist
The problem is getting the enemy to stand all by themselves in open fields.
When we took out al-Zarqawi, his sixteen-year-old wife was in the house, IIRC.
If we'd had the opportunity to kill his ass by more direct means, and leave her alive, would it have been more or less immoral?
I'm not doubting that sadly there has been collateral damage due to these monsters hiding amongst the populations.
Just saying that we have, use, and are developing serious precision technology for exactly these reasons. My company has test fired an 81mm precision guided mortar from a UAV....was launched 6K from the target and hit within 6 meters of the target zone. That is utterly amazing precision technology.
| 214 |
wrenchwench Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:40:02pm |
re: #196 Charles
There's a gigantic murder of crows buzzing my neighborhood. Thousands of croaking corvids.
Floral Giraffe must have chased them out of her tree again.
West Nile Virus wiped out 80% of the ravens that used to roost here part of the year. They are beginning to rebound.
| 215 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:40:17pm |
re: #211 Joo-LiZ
What is that called? The words used to describe a group of things?
Plus: a parliament of rooks? Really? What is a Rook, outside of the chess context?
Nork news/photo magazine.
| 216 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:40:30pm |
| 217 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:40:46pm |
re: #212 albusteve
Ya gotta love those Russians.
| 218 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:40:51pm |
re: #205 Bagua
Not only that but they feel safe there.
Unless the people in the video were after them.
| 219 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:40:57pm |
re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist
My personal theory is latent guilt. They felt bad for trying >>
| 220 |
leprechaun Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:41:27pm |
re: #74 Guanxi88
Actually, the Mossad most definitely is unionized. They had a piece in the Israeli papers recently about how the heads of the Shin Bet and Mossad were protesting that the secretaries in the intelligence services don't receive similar retirement and benefits as those who served in non-covert military.
Gotta love Israel!
| 221 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:42:13pm |
re: #211 Joo-LiZ
What is that called? The words used to describe a group of things?
Plus: a parliament of rooks? Really? What is a Rook, outside of the chess context?
| 222 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:42:15pm |
re: #206 windsagio
Wasn't it Piter who said that? >> its been a while :p
I'm pretty sure it was one of the High Navigators speaking to Shaddam IV:
NAVIGATOR
We have just folded space from Ix...
EMPEROR
(extremely nervous)
Yes?... How was your journey?
NAVIGATOR
(after a long pause)
Many machines on Ix... new machines.
EMPEROR
Oh yes?
--
NAVIGATOR
Better than those on Richesse.. You are
transparent... I see many things... I see
plans within plans.
EMPEROR
Is there a problem?... Usually there is a
problem when one of you makes a visit.
No answer.
NAVIGATOR
(finally)
The answer is within the problem...
NAVIGATOR
I see two Great Houses -- House Atreides,
House Harkonnen -- feuding... I see you
behind it.
EMPEROR
Yes.
The Navigator breathes the spice-gas heavily and
swishes gently in his tank.
NAVIGATOR
You must share with us.
--
EMPEROR
The Atreides house is building a secret
army!... using a technique unknown to
us... a technique involving sound. The
Duke is becoming more popular in the
Landsraad... he could threaten me.... I
have ordered House Atreides to occupy
Arrakis to mine the spice... thus
replacing their enemies the Harkonnens....
House Atreides will not refuse because of
the tremendous power they think they will
gain. Then, at an appointed time Baron
Harkonnen will return to Arrakis and
launch a sneak attack on House Atreides...
I have promised the Baron five legions of
my Sardaukar terror troops.
NAVIGATOR
So the Harkonnens will rid you of House
Atreides...
EMPEROR
Yes.
13. INT. HALLWAY - EMPEROR'S PALACE - NIGHT
Outside, the Reverend Mother is seeing the scene
mentally. She suddenly sees and flinches.
14. INT. THRONE ROOM - EMPEROR'S PALACE - REVEREND
MOTHER'S MENTAL IMAGE - NIGHT
The Guild Navigator turns toward her and comes very
close to her. We hear the Navigator speak to her.
NAVIGATOR
(to Reverend Mother, mentally)
Reverend Mother... I will give you the
Tleilaxu Path.
REVEREND MOTHER (V.O.)
(an excited whisper)
A chance for escape? But for whom?
15. INT. THRONE ROOM - EMPEROR'S PALACE - NIGHT
EMPEROR
Can you hear me?... If this visit has
anything to do with spice...
--
The Guild Navigator shudders and swishes quite
violently in his tank.
NAVIGATOR
LISTEN TO ME!! The spice must flow... the
spice has given me accelerated evolution
for four thousand years... it has enabled
you to live two hundred years... the spice
helps make the sapho juice, which gives
the red-lipped mentats the ability to be
living computers... the secret side of
spice... the water of life.
| 223 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:42:39pm |
re: #211 Joo-LiZ
What is that called? The words used to describe a group of things?
Plus: a parliament of rooks? Really? What is a Rook, outside of the chess context?
n.
1. An Old World bird (Corvus frugilegus) that resembles the North American crow and nests in colonies near the tops of trees.
| 224 |
sandbox Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:42:42pm |
I'm guessing Dubai had Muhbad killed because they don't want Hamas/Iranian thugs frequenting Dubai anymore. And they are afraid of Iranian ambitions in the Gulf. Dubai controls the ground and the videos cameras and they knew the target's movements. They make it look like the Israeli's did it, knowing that Israel wants the guy dead too, and it makes Mossad look proficient--so Israel can't really deny the operation with any conviction.
| 226 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:43:16pm |
re: #211 Joo-LiZ
What is that called? The words used to describe a group of things?
Plus: a parliament of rooks? Really? What is a Rook, outside of the chess context?
Terms of venery, or more prosaically, collective nouns.
| 228 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:43:36pm |
re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist
New question--why does the CIA suck at assassinations? Castro is now older than God. It's official.
Not enough practice?
| 229 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:43:42pm |
Wow. This is one of the biggest crow conventions I've ever seen. They're putting out some serious decibels.
| 230 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:44:06pm |
re: #227 windsagio
I remembered wrong, thakns ;)
Bah! It's a great line, so why not.
More sapho, my friend?
| 231 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:44:25pm |
re: #229 Charles
Wow. This is one of the biggest crow conventions I've ever seen. They're putting out some serious decibels.
Stay indoors, you know they are just waiting for a target!
| 232 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:45:41pm |
re: #110 Cato the Elder
Correction: Angelos owns the Orioles. Some other Guido owns the Ravens.
Shows how much I follow sports.
| 233 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:46:02pm |
re: #229 Charles
Wow. This is one of the biggest crow conventions I've ever seen. They're putting out some serious decibels.
I hate to ask, but this isn't a full-moon and your place isn't at the cross-roads, built after the insane asylum that replaced the gallows burned down, is it?
| 234 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:46:56pm |
re: #232 Cato the Elder
Correction: Angelos owns the Orioles. Some other Guido owns the Ravens.
Shows how much I follow sports.
"Guido" that's racist.
| 235 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:46:58pm |
re: #233 Guanxi88
I hate to ask, but this isn't a full-moon and your place isn't at the cross-roads, built after the insane asylum that replaced the gallows burned down, is it?
It's not a full moon. Purim is still two weeks off.
The rest, I cannot answer. I've only been through the Denver airport briefly.
| 236 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:47:01pm |
re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist
New question--why does the CIA suck at assassinations? Castro is now older than God. It's official.
I don't think we'll ever know how good the CIA is...as for Castro, who knows?...maybe there is a long trail of dead food tasters in his wake, and in his case it would behoove the CIA to let someone else do him
| 238 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:47:31pm |
re: #234 Walter L. Newton
"Guido" that's racist.
Worse, it suggests that Cato may be watching "Jersey Shore".
| 239 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:47:37pm |
re: #235 SanFranciscoZionist
It's not a full moon. Purim is still two weeks off.
The rest, I cannot answer. I've only been through the Denver airport briefly.
Not to worry - we're all friends here; relax.
| 240 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:47:54pm |
re: #233 Guanxi88
I hate to ask, but this isn't a full-moon and your place isn't at the cross-roads, built after the insane asylum that replaced the gallows burned down, is it?
"Crichton Hall, Crichton Royal Hospital, Glencaple Road, Dumfries, Dumfries & Galloway"
| 241 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:48:39pm |
re: #240 Walter L. Newton
"Crichton Hall, Crichton Royal Hospital, Glencaple Road, Dumfries, Dumfries & Galloway"
yup - lotta history up that road.
| 242 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:49:21pm |
re: #238 SanFranciscoZionist
Worse, it suggests that Cato may be watching "Jersey Shore".
I've never watched that show... I guess I don't have to... I worked at Casino Pier at Seaside Heights for two summers... lived in a bungalow with a whole lot of guys and girls from the Jersey shore.
| 243 |
Racer X Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:49:41pm |
Think back to 1979. What if Jimmy Carter would have taken a different stance with the Shah. What if he threw him a tiny bone. How would that have played out over the past 40 years? Would Iran still be as much of a threat to worldwide security?
Would Hamas and Hezbollah be as much of a threat to world peace?
Would we still be talking about IRA terrorists and not even thinking about Muslim suicide bombers?
Lots of ways to play "what if".
These type of covert actions need to be well thought out in advance, and all potential ramifications discussed. You do not take this action lightly.
That being said, I'm totally OK with it - regardless of who carried it out. Mahmoud decided his own fate.
In fact, I am OK with more actions like this.
We dropped 2 nuclear bombs in Japan and killed over a hundred thousand (more than had been killed previously in conventional bombings on Japan). Most military analysts agree those 2 bombs saved millions. But what if we had not dropped those bombs?
What if Mahmoud was still alive - what would he have done next week / month / year?
| 244 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:49:53pm |
re: #229 Charles
Wow. This is one of the biggest crow conventions I've ever seen. They're putting out some serious decibels.
"The Birds".
Don't go outside!
| 245 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:50:10pm |
re: #236 albusteve
Found it; according to the Church Report, the CIA tried to kill Castro 8 times between '60 and '65.
| 246 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:50:14pm |
re: #145 MandyManners
He likely was a very intelligent man but, he put that intellect to use figuring out ways how to kill civlians. Fuck him. He chose his fate.
Quite Concur.
| 247 |
Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:50:43pm |
re: #245 windsagio
Found it; according to the Church Report, the CIA tried to kill Castro 8 times between '60 and '65.
I demand a f*cking refund.
| 248 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:51:37pm |
re: #242 Walter L. Newton
I've never watched that show... I guess I don't have to... I worked at Casino Pier at Seaside Heights for two summers... lived in a bungalow with a whole lot of guys and girls from the Jersey shore.
Ah..Jersey Shore ain't what you think Jersey shore is Walter...
*wink*
| 249 |
TampaKnight Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:51:42pm |
Once the USSR was dissolved, we should have waged a full scale invasion of Cuba to get rid of that asshole who harbored the Russians putting ballistic long range missiles off our coast.
| 250 |
captdiggs Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:52:12pm |
I have some doubts that this was the Mossad, though the outcome was good.
There is just no way that the Mossad would use the names of Israelis on false passports...no way.
It points the finger directly at Israel and, apparently, it is illegal for the Mossad to do so under Israeli law.
| 251 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:52:26pm |
re: #229 Charles
Wow. This is one of the biggest crow conventions I've ever seen. They're putting out some serious decibels.
Open registration, wait for a troll to come in, then club the troll and throw its carcass out the door. That should give you a diversion if you need to leave.
/kidding
| 252 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:53:00pm |
re: #248 HoosierHoops
Ah..Jersey Shore ain't what you think Jersey shore is Walter...
*wink*
Then explain. What is it, another stereotypical bunch of young Italian men being neanderthals?
| 253 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:53:23pm |
re: #249 TampaKnight
Once the USSR was dissolved, we should have waged a full scale invasion of Cuba to get rid of that asshole who harbored the Russians putting ballistic long range missiles off our coast.
had we, I guarantee you I'd be a Cuban property owner right now
| 254 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:53:35pm |
This was no run-of-the-mill jihadi. IIRC, he was a leading member--if not a founder--of the reincarnation of the Izadin-al-Kassam brigade. Those with a bit of history know the origin of that cursed name.
| 255 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:53:40pm |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
Then explain. What is it, another stereotypical bunch of young Italian men being neanderthals?
And girls being skanks. How'd you guess?
//
| 256 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:53:43pm |
re: #249 TampaKnight
Once the USSR was dissolved, we should have waged a full scale invasion of Cuba to get rid of that asshole who harbored the Russians putting ballistic long range missiles off our coast.
That would have been somewhat costly and it would have generated intense ill-will in Latin America.
| 257 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:54:10pm |
re: #256 Dark_Falcon
Also, at the time, we didn't just invade other countries willy-nilly.
| 258 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:54:37pm |
re: #250 captdiggs
I have some doubts that this was the Mossad, though the outcome was good.
There is just no way that the Mossad would use the names of Israelis on false passports...no way.
It points the finger directly at Israel and, apparently, it is illegal for the Mossad to do so under Israeli law.
very likely some private firm...a new age Murder Inc
| 259 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:54:58pm |
re: #249 TampaKnight
Once the USSR was dissolved, we should have waged a full scale invasion of Cuba to get rid of that asshole who harbored the Russians putting ballistic long range missiles off our coast.
He and his regime are at the wrong end of the actuarial tables.
| 260 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:55:04pm |
re: #254 MandyManners
This was no run-of-the-mill jihadi. IIRC, he was a leading member--if not a founder--of the reincarnation of the Izadin-al-Kassam brigade. Those with a bit of history know the origin of that cursed name.
They are the terror squads of Hamas.
| 261 |
jaunte Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:55:16pm |
Cause of death elevated brain blood pressure... anyone know what would cause that?
| 262 |
TampaKnight Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:55:45pm |
re: #256 Dark_Falcon
That would have been somewhat costly and it would have generated intense ill-will in Latin America.
They don't seem to need any help crying about America.
| 263 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:55:54pm |
re: #255 rwdflynavy
And girls being skanks. How'd you guess?
//
Ok... then it is the same Jersey shore I worked at. Like I said above, I spent two seasons working at Casino Pier at Seaside Heights. Fourteen hours a day running a kiddie ride and then back to the bungalow to drink and carouse until almost dawn, and then trying to get 3-4 hours of sleep before the amusement park opened at 11:00 am.
Saw a lot of crazy there.
| 264 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:56:07pm |
re: #257 windsagio
Also, at the time, we didn't just invade other countries willy-nilly.
Not sure a 15 year ceasefire, broken daily by Iraq is quite willy-nilly.
| 265 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:56:08pm |
re: #257 windsagio
Also, at the time, we didn't just invade other countries willy-nilly.
We haven't done 'willy-nilly' invasions in a long time.
| 266 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:56:40pm |
re: #261 jaunte
Cause of death elevated brain blood pressure... anyone know what would cause that?
hydrostatic shock...6 9mm rounds to the chest
| 267 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:56:51pm |
re: #261 jaunte
Cause of death elevated brain blood pressure... anyone know what would cause that?
Rolled up like a tube of toothpaste?
| 268 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:56:54pm |
| 269 |
WaveriderCA Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:56:58pm |
re: #220 leprechaun
I don't think it's unreasonable at all for people in mossad to be part of a union. Concerns for your own well being and no outlet to protect yourself would seem like a pretty good reason to be in a union. I saw some frontline interviews a while back where workers at area 51 were trying to recoup money from the government because they had health issues from burning drums of chemicals in open pits in the desert. The problem is how do you prove you worked at a place that never existed or talk about things that are classified.
It's not like these guys are a bunch of scummy teachers unions that protect flagrant child abusers and fight for retirement ages where they draw more money from pension in their life than they ever did from their years of working. Unions have their place sometimes... but not in schools.
| 270 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:57:04pm |
re: #245 windsagio
Found it; according to the Church Report, the CIA tried to kill Castro 8 times between '60 and '65.
That's a lot of dead food-tasters.
| 271 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:57:36pm |
re: #270 SanFranciscoZionist
one of the rumors you always used to hear is that they tried to kill him with an exploding pen. I can't find any evidence that its true tho'
| 272 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:57:38pm |
| 273 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:57:41pm |
re: #262 TampaKnight
They don't seem to need any help crying about America.
No, but for the most part they're just mouthing off. When we actually send troops to remove a government, Latin America gets quite angry with us. Thus we have to save such an option for only extreme cases.
| 274 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:57:58pm |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
Then explain. What is it, another stereotypical bunch of young Italian men being neanderthals?
No, no, you're way too cynical--there are girls too.
| 275 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:58:17pm |
re: #136 BunnyThief
He went to Dubai, that notorious place of "anything goes,"
Only if you're a dude, dude. Only if you're a dude.
| 276 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:58:32pm |
re: #149 Walter L. Newton
Not at all. I'd be proud. This would be how you best avoid all the crap about interrogation, renditions, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib etc. Find them, fix their location, eliminate the threat. Walk away. Repeat.
| 277 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 5:58:34pm |
re: #255 rwdflynavy
And girls being skanks. How'd you guess?
//
The boys, and Snookie, are all very pretty, though.
| 278 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:00:48pm |
re: #276 Rightwingconspirator
Not at all. I'd be proud. This would be how you best avoid all the crap about interrogation, renditions, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib etc. Find them, fix their location, eliminate the threat. Walk away. Repeat.
exactly...I think Gitmo is for gleaning info...if not, then what's the point...it probably reached it's maximum patronage...it will shut down eventually from non use
| 279 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:01:07pm |
re: #276 Rightwingconspirator
Not at all. I'd be proud. This would be how you best avoid all the crap about interrogation, renditions, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib etc. Find them, fix their location, eliminate the threat. Walk away. Repeat.
Figures.
| 280 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:01:57pm |
re: #229 Charles
Maybe this is a good topic to crow about. :)
| 281 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:02:42pm |
Haiti judge frees 8 of 10 American missionaries
[Link: content.usatoday.net...]
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti — Eight American missionaries were freed from a Haitian jail Wednesday, nearly three weeks after being charged with kidnapping for trying to take a group of children out of the quake-stricken country.The eight -- looking bedraggled and sweaty -- walked out of the Haitian jail escorted by U.S. diplomats just after dusk. They waited until they were safely inside a white van before flashing smiles, waving and giving a thumbs up to reporters.
Hours earlier, judge Bernard Saint-Vil told The Associated Press that eight of the 10 missionaries were free to leave without bail or other conditions after parents testified they voluntarily handed their children over to the missionaries.
"The parents of the kids made statements proving that they can be released," he said, adding that still wants to question the group's leader and her nanny.
| 282 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:02:50pm |
re: #269 WaveriderCA
I don't think it's unreasonable at all for people in mossad to be part of a union. Concerns for your own well being and no outlet to protect yourself would seem like a pretty good reason to be in a union. I saw some frontline interviews a while back where workers at area 51 were trying to recoup money from the government because they had health issues from burning drums of chemicals in open pits in the desert. The problem is how do you prove you worked at a place that never existed or talk about things that are classified.
It's not like these guys are a bunch of scummy teachers unions that protect flagrant child abusers and fight for retirement ages where they draw more money from pension in their life than they ever did from their years of working. Unions have their place sometimes... but not in schools.
Oh, thanks. Glad to hear that I don't need protection in the workplace--as long as I don't work in Area 51.
| 283 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:03:26pm |
OK, if it's wrong for me to be against torture but for the snuffing of a notorious bloody-handed terrorist who's been strutting around like a rooster for 15 years or so, then I'm wrong.
It's happened before.
| 284 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:04:24pm |
re: #278 albusteve
Gitmo is good for enemy combatant incarceration. In war we'll always take prisoners. Spies and satellites beats interrogation in my well read but inexperienced estimation.
| 285 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:04:31pm |
re: #260 Dark_Falcon
They are the terror squads of Hamas.
Ummm...yes. But, look at the origin of the name. This is old hatred.
| 286 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:04:41pm |
re: #283 Cato the Elder
I think its more wrong to support extra-legal hit squads sneaking into foreign countries, regardless of who the target is.
Just a bad precedent.
| 287 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:05:09pm |
re: #283 Cato the Elder
OK, if it's wrong for me to be against torture but for the snuffing of a notorious bloody-handed terrorist who's been strutting around like a rooster for 15 years or so, then I'm wrong.
It's happened before.
Concur. I don't care what happens to a scumbag like that. He deserves whatever he gets.
| 288 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:05:10pm |
The "California Public Divest from Israel Act."
A written request has been submitted to the Attorney General of California to place a measure on the November ballot called:
[Link: ag.ca.gov...]
For anyone who wishes to express their sentiment regarding this proposed ballot measure here is the Attorney General's"contact us" page-
[Link: ag.ca.gov...]
| 289 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:05:28pm |
re: #281 RogueOne
Haiti judge frees 8 of 10 American missionaries
[Link: content.usatoday.net...]
good..there is no point in keeping them around, under the circumstances..I wondered if the authorities would do this...makes sense to me
| 290 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:05:30pm |
re: #286 windsagio
I think its more wrong to support extra-legal hit squads sneaking into foreign countries, regardless of who the target is.
Just a bad precedent.
Legal hit squads, though, are another matter.
| 291 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:06:03pm |
re: #23 Unakite
This is better than the Borne Identity.
/
Yes, without the mistaken targets.
But to repeat myself again, while I understand how there can be pissed off people about identity theft, I still find little difference except admirable ones between using predator drones versus quiet methods that endanger nobody else nearby. Is there a difference between the target that we otherwise applaud, or is there not?
| 292 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:06:12pm |
Why not have a Haj Amin Al-Husseini Brigade?!
| 293 |
jaunte Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:06:14pm |
I wonder if this was the result of an internal scuffle.
Throughout the operation, none of the suspects made a direct call to any another. However, Dubai police traced a high volume of calls and text messages between three phones carried by the assassins and four numbers in Austria where a command centre had apparently been established.To co-ordinate their movements on the ground, the team used discreet, sophisticated short-range communication devices as they tracked their victim.
Al-Mabhouh touched down in Dubai at around 3pm from Damascus to arrange a shipment of weapons to Gaza. Hamas has not explained why one of its senior commanders, a marked man with several assassination attempts against him already, should have arrived alone without any security.
[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]
| 294 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:06:18pm |
re: #287 Dark_Falcon
Concur. I don't care what happens to a scumbag like that. He deserves whatever he gets.
A precedent set by Judith in the Bible.
| 296 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:07:00pm |
re: #286 windsagio
I think its more wrong to support extra-legal hit squads sneaking into foreign countries, regardless of who the target is.
Just a bad precedent.
Sometimes they are needed. There are times when someone has to be killed and a nation has to break the law to do it. In the real world, it can be necessary to break the rules to win.
| 297 |
WaveriderCA Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:07:27pm |
re: #282 SanFranciscoZionist
The point remains that unions in covert agencies are pretty reasonable considering the lack of outlets for mistreatment.
But hey I mean look at the LA unified school district and all that wonderful work they do there where they might as well just line the kids up and then coin flip for each one heads you graduate tails go start gang life.
| 298 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:07:33pm |
| 299 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:08:11pm |
Go back in time to look at the Nashashibi family/tribe. They were amenable to dealing with the Brits/Zionists. The Haj's folks almost eradicated them.
| 300 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:08:13pm |
| 301 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:08:20pm |
re: #286 windsagio
I think its more wrong to support extra-legal hit squads sneaking into foreign countries, regardless of who the target is.
Just a bad precedent.
this killing is not a precedent...aside from that, why do you not support it?
| 302 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:08:31pm |
suchislife -
I see you're logged in.
Were you going to send me an e-mail? I've been waiting . . .
| 303 |
Racer X Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:09:59pm |
re: #293 jaunte
Hamas has not explained why one of its senior commanders, a marked man with several assassination attempts against him already, should have arrived alone without any security.
Heh.
And whoever carried this out came this close to getting away with it, and the authorities just assuming he died of natural causes. This freaking close.
| 304 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:10:03pm |
re: #294 Cato the Elder
A precedent set by Judith in the Bible.
And Yael before her...and Ehud, for that matter.
| 305 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:10:06pm |
| 306 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:10:20pm |
re: #300 windsagio
re: #296 Dark_Falcon
I'd say hit squads in general are a bad idea. A little to easy to direct at whatever the general in charge (or whatever) doesn't like.
Also, it probably wasn't legal, unless Dubai was behind the attack >
I don't agree. Sometimes assasination is a needed thing. Some people simply need killing.
| 307 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:10:46pm |
re: #297 WaveriderCA
The point remains that unions in covert agencies are pretty reasonable considering the lack of outlets for mistreatment.
But hey I mean look at the LA unified school district and all that wonderful work they do there where they might as well just line the kids up and then coin flip for each one heads you graduate tails go start gang life.
If you think getting rid of the union will help with that, you're on the wrong track.
| 308 |
jaunte Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:11:07pm |
re: #303 Racer X
Him traveling around without any security is pretty odd.
| 309 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:11:22pm |
re: #293 jaunte
Throughout the operation, none of the suspects made a direct call to any another. However, Dubai police traced a high volume of calls and text messages between three phones carried by the assassins and four numbers in Austria where a command centre had apparently been established.
I suspect this is the one issue that allowed them to be identified. I am curious how they would have allowed themselves to use such an obvious traceable communication when they could so easily have set up individual, untraceable, forwarded calls to unique numbers via, say, Skype.
| 310 |
captdiggs Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:11:31pm |
re: #300 windsagio
re: #296 Dark_Falcon
I'd say hit squads in general are a bad idea. A little to easy to direct at whatever the general in charge (or whatever) doesn't like.
Also, it probably wasn't legal, unless Dubai was behind the attack >
It's a whole lot cleaner than dropping a 1000lb bomb on his whole family.
This type of targeting saves many lives.
| 311 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:11:57pm |
re: #308 jaunte
Him traveling around without any security is pretty odd.
maybe he thought he was bullet proof
| 312 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:12:11pm |
re: #299 MandyManners
Go back in time to look at the Nashashibi family/tribe. They were amenable to dealing with the Brits/Zionists. The Haj's folks almost eradicated them.
I've actually been readding about Orde Wingate's exploits in 1930's Palestine. He worked with Jewish settlers to form the Special Night Squads that finally cut back on Arab terrorism for a time.
| 313 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:12:18pm |
I haven't finished watching the vids yet, but I got to wondering...
What is a member of a poor, starving, oppressed, downtrodden, victimized, oppressed, walled-in, oppressed group of miserable, oppressed people doing vacationing in such a swanky, high-end hot-spot like Dubai?
I had no idea that a few smashed up green house parts, a sack of stolen Egyptian rice, and a few qassams were worth enough money to afford such things.
| 314 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:12:23pm |
re: #260 Dark_Falcon
They are the terror squads of Hamas.
And, what is the name of the rockets they fling into Israel?
Qassams.
| 316 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:12:39pm |
re: #283 Cato the Elder
Me too.
Cato I had these long talks with my teachers at the Tao Confucian Temple where I trained and took many classes. Talks with my spiritual teachers, Buddhists all. After practicing martial arts, it was upstairs to the temple for bows, uh respects.
I was taught we may defend ourselves. We must be as gentle as possible and still prevail. We must not allow anger to cloud our mind. I was told that from time to time one human becomes the instrument of anthers lethal karma. Perhaps by accident like a car crash, perhaps by necessity as in acts of self defense. I was also told not to exult at any of this. So I learned to balance the defensive skills with a kind mind.
| 317 |
jaunte Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:12:48pm |
re: #309 Naso Tang
Now if they find a 'command centre' in Austria with someone's lost Mossad card stuck in a flowerpot, it's time to call shenanigans.
| 318 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:12:49pm |
re: #308 jaunte
Him traveling around without any security is pretty odd.
I keep hearing rumors that he was planning to see a lover in Dubai. Might have shed the security for privacy.
| 319 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:13:15pm |
re: #301 albusteve
I don't like the idea of us cheering a nation killing someone they don't like in another nation. It's also inconsistant. If this were 1981, and we found out the USSR was behind the attempt at Reagan (and this blog existed then), people would be outraged, and there would be a general agreement that it was an unacceptable act.
"He deserved it so its okay" just smells a little bit too much of lynch law for me to accept.
| 320 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:13:24pm |
re: #313 Slumbering Behemoth
I haven't finished watching the vids yet, but I got to wondering...
What is a member of a poor, starving, oppressed, downtrodden, victimized, oppressed, walled-in, oppressed group of miserable, oppressed people doing vacationing in such a swanky, high-end hot-spot like Dubai?
I had no idea that a few smashed up green house parts, a sack of stolen Egyptian rice, and a few qassams were worth enough money to afford such things.
You left out the zillions in international "aid". You know, to ease their self-inflicted plight.
| 321 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:13:59pm |
But for Haj Amin al-Husseini, this all could have been avoided.
So, pardon my disdain for those who try to white-wash that bastard and his works.
| 322 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:14:10pm |
re: #313 Slumbering Behemoth
I haven't finished watching the vids yet, but I got to wondering...
What is a member of a poor, starving, oppressed, downtrodden, victimized, oppressed, walled-in, oppressed group of miserable, oppressed people doing vacationing in such a swanky, high-end hot-spot like Dubai?
I had no idea that a few smashed up green house parts, a sack of stolen Egyptian rice, and a few qassams were worth enough money to afford such things.
I think it was a work trip, but other than that, the question is a valid, if insincere one. :)
| 323 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:14:29pm |
re: #311 albusteve
maybe he thought he was bullet proof
The UAE is "neutral" as long as there is money in it; remember?
| 324 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:14:50pm |
re: #313 Slumbering Behemoth
I haven't finished watching the vids yet, but I got to wondering...
What is a member of a poor, starving, oppressed, downtrodden, victimized, oppressed, walled-in, oppressed group of miserable, oppressed people doing vacationing in such a swanky, high-end hot-spot like Dubai?
I had no idea that a few smashed up green house parts, a sack of stolen Egyptian rice, and a few qassams were worth enough money to afford such things.
and did you notice how few people there where in this hotel?...that seemed a bit odd to me..if it was Vegas or mosy major cities, it would have been thriving with guests (until recently of course)
| 325 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:14:52pm |
re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist
If you think getting rid of the union will help with that, you're on the wrong track.
It'd be a good start. You hear about that school district in RI where they wanted the unions to make a few concessions to help the failing schools? They refused, and the super FIRED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
The incredible hoops that have to be leaped through to get rid of bad -- even dangerous -- teachers is entirely the fault of the unions. You gotta kill half a forest to cover the paperwork. Look up New York City's "rubber rooms."
| 326 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:15:12pm |
re: #321 MandyManners
But for Haj Amin al-Husseini, this all could have been avoided.
So, pardon my disdain for those who try to white-wash that bastard and his works.
Who, aside from the usual suspects, has been trying to white-wash him?
| 327 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:15:16pm |
re: #320 The Sanity Inspector
You left out the zillions in international "aid". You know, to ease their self-inflicted plight.
Don't be silly, Da Jooos steal all of that before those poor victims get to see a single dime.
/need I?
| 328 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:15:24pm |
re: #319 windsagio
That's what moral relativism will buy you.
| 329 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:15:47pm |
re: #305 MandyManners
Per 290. "Legal hit-squads are a different matter" or somesuch~ just responding to that :p
| 330 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:16:54pm |
re: #324 albusteve
and did you notice how few people there where in this hotel?...that seemed a bit odd to me..if it was Vegas or mosy major cities, it would have been thriving with guests (until recently of course)
Dubai has economic issues of its own.
| 331 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:17:09pm |
re: #319 windsagio
I don't like the idea of us cheering a nation killing someone they don't like in another nation. It's also inconsistant. If this were 1981, and we found out the USSR was behind the attempt at Reagan (and this blog existed then), people would be outraged, and there would be a general agreement that it was an unacceptable act.
"He deserved it so its okay" just smells a little bit too much of lynch law for me to accept.
it is lynching...so it's the legality issue, that's cool...imo, the law just doesn't need to be bothered with sometimes
| 332 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:17:17pm |
re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist
Who, aside from the usual suspects, has been trying to white-wash him?
You've answered that question.
| 333 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:17:25pm |
re: #319 windsagio
I don't like the idea of us cheering a nation killing someone they don't like in another nation. It's also inconsistant. If this were 1981, and we found out the USSR was behind the attempt at Reagan (and this blog existed then), people would be outraged, and there would be a general agreement that it was an unacceptable act.
"He deserved it so its okay" just smells a little bit too much of lynch law for me to accept.
It goes way beyond "someone they don't like." A sworn enemy, at war with Israel, with a history of both acts of war and war crimes. A leader of a hostile entity. He was "fair game."
LIike they say in Texas: some people just need killing.
| 334 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:17:44pm |
re: #325 BunnyThief
It'd be a good start. You hear about that school district in RI where they wanted the unions to make a few concessions to help the failing schools? They refused, and the super FIRED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
The incredible hoops that have to be leaped through to get rid of bad -- even dangerous -- teachers is entirely the fault of the unions. You gotta kill half a forest to cover the paperwork. Look up New York City's "rubber rooms."
Those are for teachers whom the district wants to fire. They are not allowed to teach but go to those rroms and sit around, often for years, such is the delay before their hearing finally happens.
| 335 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:17:56pm |
re: #319 windsagio
You make a valuable point. But-we need to remember this was a hard working operator in the ongoing killings of us infidels, or Jews or Americans. Its not just a debate about how or if to deliver punishment for past crimes or revenge. This stopped a capable hard working killer.
| 336 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:18:06pm |
re: #329 windsagio
Per 290. "Legal hit-squads are a different matter" or somesuch~ just responding to that :p
I don't always climb up the thread of discussion enough.
| 337 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:18:29pm |
re: #331 albusteve
You know how it is :p
I'm not gonna complain that the guy is dead, but the tactics used are just iffy. I'd hate to have an affair with the head of (whatever secret service did this)'s spouse.
| 338 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:18:31pm |
re: #324 albusteve
and did you notice how few people there where in this hotel?...that seemed a bit odd to me..if it was Vegas or mosy major cities, it would have been thriving with guests (until recently of course)
True that. Dubai ain't exactly an "anything goes" kind of place, though. Sure, they may be a little more lax in their theocratic laws than, say Saudi Arabia, so perhaps that has something to do with that.
I wouldn't vacation there.
| 339 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:18:35pm |
re: #325 BunnyThief
It'd be a good start. You hear about that school district in RI where they wanted the unions to make a few concessions to help the failing schools? They refused, and the super FIRED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
The incredible hoops that have to be leaped through to get rid of bad -- even dangerous -- teachers is entirely the fault of the unions. You gotta kill half a forest to cover the paperwork. Look up New York City's "rubber rooms."
You don't want to find out what's going to happen when the unions are gone, and the heroic struggling administrators who want SOOOO bad to help the kids don't have a boogeyman to hide behind.
The problem is MUCH deeper than the unions.
| 340 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:18:39pm |
re: #329 windsagio
Per 290. "Legal hit-squads are a different matter" or somesuch~ just responding to that :p
do you think this guy deserved to die?...if so, how would you go about making that happen?
| 341 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:19:01pm |
re: #336 MandyManners
oh yeah, just explaining since you asked ;)
| 342 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:19:02pm |
re: #319 windsagio
I don't like the idea of us cheering a nation killing someone they don't like in another nation. It's also inconsistant. If this were 1981, and we found out the USSR was behind the attempt at Reagan (and this blog existed then), people would be outraged, and there would be a general agreement that it was an unacceptable act.
"He deserved it so its okay" just smells a little bit too much of lynch law for me to accept.
Please tell me that I'm parachute commenting, that I missed some context, and you didn't just hypothetically compare a murderous, throat-slitting, daycare center rocketing, Hamas terrorist to Ronald Reagan.
Check your scorecard: Israel and the U.S. are The Good Guys; the Soviet Union and Hamas--very bad.
| 343 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:19:11pm |
re: #335 Rightwingconspirator
You make a valuable point. But-we need to remember this was a hard working operator in the ongoing killings of us infidels, or Jews or Americans. Its not just a debate about how or if to deliver punishment for past crimes or revenge. This stopped a capable hard working killer.
And, he was responsible for the deaths of his own co-religionists, for the misery in their daily lives.
| 344 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:19:29pm |
re: #335 Rightwingconspirator
You make a valuable point. But-we need to remember this was a hard working operator in the ongoing killings of us infidels, or Jews or Americans. Its not just a debate about how or if to deliver punishment for past crimes or revenge. This stopped a capable hard working killer.
And created upward mobility for his understudy.
| 345 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:19:41pm |
| 346 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:19:52pm |
Maybe they could have tried converting him instead. Or turning him as a double agent.
Mooph.
| 347 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:20:11pm |
| 348 |
BunnyThief Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:20:32pm |
re: #339 SanFranciscoZionist
You don't want to find out what's going to happen when the unions are gone, and the heroic struggling administrators who want SOOO bad to help the kids don't have a boogeyman to hide behind.
The problem is MUCH deeper than the unions.
Well, in RI, we're gonna see how that plays out...
It's related to why I'm such a 10th Amendment militant. "State's Rights" means we have 50 different laboratories to try to find solutions to problems, instead of going for a "one size fits all" federal fixes that often just make things worse.
| 349 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:20:42pm |
re: #346 Cato the Elder
Maybe they could have tried converting him instead. Or turning him as a double agent.
Mooph.
mah haid sploads wif lafter
| 350 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:20:47pm |
re: #342 The Sanity Inspector
Please tell me that I'm parachute commenting, that I missed some context, and you didn't just hypothetically compare a murderous, throat-slitting, daycare center rocketing, Hamas terrorist to Ronald Reagan.
Check your scorecard: Israel and the U.S. are The Good Guys; the Soviet Union and Hamas--very bad.
International law is rarely about whooz the good guys. It is sometimes about accepted practice.
| 351 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:20:54pm |
re: #327 Slumbering Behemoth
Don't be silly, Da Jooos steal all of that before those poor victims get to see a single dime.
/need I?
I find if you buy your jooes oil at the gas station on your Zionist credit card you save 15% per Gallon..And you get points back on your Monthly Zionist Check...Which is cool..I got a book bag last month
| 352 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:20:58pm |
re: #324 albusteve
and did you notice how few people there where in this hotel?...that seemed a bit odd to me..if it was Vegas or mosy major cities, it would have been thriving with guests (until recently of course)
Until recently, as in the past couple of years. Economic issue and people asking them themselves why they invested their life savings in concrete mansions in a superficially modern desert?
Go figure.
| 353 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:21:19pm |
The world is a much better place with his absence.
| 354 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:21:26pm |
re: #319 windsagio
I don't like the idea of us cheering a nation killing someone they don't like in another nation. It's also inconsistant. If this were 1981, and we found out the USSR was behind the attempt at Reagan (and this blog existed then), people would be outraged, and there would be a general agreement that it was an unacceptable act.
"He deserved it so its okay" just smells a little bit too much of lynch law for me to accept.
You compare President Reagan with an Hama terrorist thug?
You lack a moral compass.
| 355 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:21:41pm |
re: #340 albusteve
Like I said above, I'm not gonna complain too much that that guy is dead. There are alot of people who in my opinion deserve to die.
Luckily, I don't get to choose who lives and dies.
This guy deserved what he got. Did every person whose been assassinated deserve it? Actually I'll answer my own rhetorical question: Of course not.
| 356 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:21:43pm |
re: #346 Cato the Elder
Maybe they could have tried converting him instead. Or turning him as a double agent.
Mooph.
well, he's converted now
| 357 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:21:55pm |
re: #339 SanFranciscoZionist
You don't want to find out what's going to happen when the unions are gone, and the heroic struggling administrators who want SOOO bad to help the kids don't have a boogeyman to hide behind.
The problem is MUCH deeper than the unions.
There is also the confusion between academic tenure and union protection. They're not always the same thing. Civil service unions tend to make life hard for incompetent managers.
| 358 |
torrentprime Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:21:59pm |
re: #342 The Sanity Inspector
Please tell me that I'm parachute commenting, that I missed some context, and you didn't just hypothetically compare a murderous, throat-slitting, daycare center rocketing, Hamas terrorist to Ronald Reagan.
Check your scorecard: Israel and the U.S. are The Good Guys; the Soviet Union and Hamas--very bad.
So, on the "it's ok if the guy is really really bad", you're a yes vote, then?
No one compared the people; the comparison was assassination attempts. Isn't the point - and what makes us better - is that we follow the set of rules and conventions and not a sliding scale according to a "scorecard"?
| 359 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:22:26pm |
re: #355 windsagio
Like I said above, I'm not gonna complain too much that that guy is dead. There are alot of people who in my opinion deserve to die.
Luckily, I don't get to choose who lives and dies.
This guy deserved what he got. Did every person whose been assassinated deserve it? Actually I'll answer my own rhetorical question: Of course not.
how would you have liquidated him legally?
| 360 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:22:33pm |
re: #344 Decatur Deb
Hence the world needs to work at the peace process with all reasonable effort, and get the Israel / Palestinian thing settled. Take the rhetorical wind from Islamist sails. Lean on both people to find a way before this has to happen again or we have to witness more dead Israelis from a bomb or rocket attack.
| 361 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:23:12pm |
re: #346 Cato the Elder
Maybe they could have tried converting him instead. Or turning him as a double agent.
Mooph.
Or maybe they could have caught him and tortured him for information.
Oh, wait - any discomfort brought to captives is not allowed.
Murdering someone, though - is OK?
I'm being flip, of course.
The problem with these guys is that they either do not stay locked up for life, or they are able to run things from whatever cell they occupy. And imprisonment sends no message whatsoever to the ones ready to take his place.
| 362 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:23:14pm |
re: #353 MandyManners
The world is a much better place with his absence.
I certainly won't lose any sleep over it. But I bet certain Hamassholes will for quite some time, and that thought makes me smile a little.
| 363 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:23:48pm |
re: #354 Bagua
Its necessary to decontextualize the issue to make the point. I'm against assassination as a political tool. No matter how awful the target, I'll remain consistent in that position.
I've stated a few reasons in various posts above.
| 364 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:24:13pm |
re: #324 albusteve
and did you notice how few people there where in this hotel?...that seemed a bit odd to me..if it was Vegas or mosy major cities, it would have been thriving with guests (until recently of course)
They are experiencing a slump, plenty of vacant real estate and people abandoning new cars at the airports as they leave job-less. But even in good times they over-build with opulence and spaciousness in the swanky places that terrorist was frequenting.
| 365 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:24:26pm |
re: #359 albusteve
I'm not sure they could have. Sometimes thats the cost of having rule of law in international affairs.
| 366 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:24:30pm |
re: #361 reine.de.tout
Or maybe they could have caught him and tortured him for information.
Oh, wait - any discomfort brought to captives is not allowed.
Murdering someone, though - is OK?I'm being flip, of course.
The problem with these guys is that they either do not stay locked up for life, or they are able to run things from whatever cell they occupy. And imprisonment sends no message whatsoever to the ones ready to take his place.
And I probably meant "flippant" - Cato, correct me please?
| 367 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:24:32pm |
re: #360 Rightwingconspirator
Hence the world needs to work at the peace process with all reasonable effort, and get the Israel / Palestinian thing settled. Take the rhetorical wind from Islamist sails. Lean on both people to find a way before this has to happen again or we have to witness more dead Israelis from a bomb or rocket attack.
Or, just keep on taking out the leadership of Hamas whenever, wherever and however possible.
| 368 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:24:38pm |
re: #359 albusteve
how would you have liquidated him legally?
Why, with a missile from the sky of course. Happens every other day, one place or another.
| 369 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:25:07pm |
re: #362 Slumbering Behemoth
I certainly won't lose any sleep over it. But I bet certain Hamassholes will for quite some time, and that thought makes me smile a little.
They've been freaking out for almost a month.
| 370 |
torrentprime Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:25:17pm |
re: #348 BunnyThief
Well, in RI, we're gonna see how that plays out...
It's related to why I'm such a 10th Amendment militant. "State's Rights" means we have 50 different laboratories to try to find solutions to problems, instead of going for a "one size fits all" federal fixes that often just make things worse.
It's also used by demagogues who oppose the solution-finding at any level, federal or state... but a up to the laboratory theory - it is how the states are supposed to work, after all. Someone pointed out that Massachusetts has given us a chance to see how gay marriage actually affects straight marriages (spoiler alert - the divorce rate went down since marriage equality); the other states can watch and see how it goes.
| 371 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:25:55pm |
re: #360 Rightwingconspirator
Hence the world needs to work at the peace process with all reasonable effort, and get the Israel / Palestinian thing settled. Take the rhetorical wind from Islamist sails. Lean on both people to find a way before this has to happen again or we have to witness more dead Israelis from a bomb or rocket attack.
start a war with Jordan...open the gates and force the Palis back into their homeland...then declare peace...not a good idea?
| 372 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:26:16pm |
re: #363 windsagio
Its necessary to decontextualize the issue to make the point. I'm against assassination as a political tool. No matter how awful the target, I'll remain consistent in that position.
I've stated a few reasons in various posts above.
The assassination wasn't a "political tool", it was a military action. He wasn't the head of state, he was a terrorist.
| 373 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:26:37pm |
re: #316 Rightwingconspirator
Me too.
Cato I had these long talks with my teachers at the Tao Confucian Temple where I trained and took many classes. Talks with my spiritual teachers, Buddhists all. After practicing martial arts, it was upstairs to the temple for bows, uh respects.I was taught we may defend ourselves. We must be as gentle as possible and still prevail. We must not allow anger to cloud our mind. I was told that from time to time one human becomes the instrument of anthers lethal karma. Perhaps by accident like a car crash, perhaps by necessity as in acts of self defense. I was also told not to exult at any of this. So I learned to balance the defensive skills with a kind mind.
There is a story about the Buddha in one of his pre-enlightenment lives. He was on a ferry crossing the Ganges with some 500 other people. He became aware that an insane man was about to scuttle the boat and drown everyone on board and their pigs and roosters, too. So he killed him.
As Buddha he probably had some power that would have made it unnecessary, but as pre-Buddha he had no choice.
Me, I'm just a poor sinner and would not hesitate to go Dirty Harry on the naked guy running down the alley, chasing a woman, with an axe and a hard-on.
| 374 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:27:10pm |
re: #363 windsagio
Its necessary to decontextualize the issue to make the point. I'm against assassination as a political tool. No matter how awful the target, I'll remain consistent in that position.
I've stated a few reasons in various posts above.
Just keep wrapped there in that little position while those who do the real job of protecting your ability to take that high-faluting moralistic stance put their lives on the line every fucking day of the week.
| 375 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:27:16pm |
re: #365 windsagio
I'm not sure they could have. Sometimes thats the cost of having rule of law in international affairs.
so in your view, it would be better to have the guy living because legally it's nearly impossible to to kill him otherwise?
| 376 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:27:19pm |
re: #358 torrentprime
So, on the "it's ok if the guy is really really bad", you're a yes vote, then?
No one compared the people; the comparison was assassination attempts. Isn't the point - and what makes us better - is that we follow the set of rules and conventions and not a sliding scale according to a "scorecard"?
Okay, let's go ad absurdum on this argumentum of yours. It was wrong for Mehmet Ali Agca to try to assassinate Pope John Paul the Great in 1981. Shall we therefore forbid ourselves to cap Osama bin Laden, if we catch him in an unguarded moment? We're at war with him, and he with us, as surely as Israel and Hamas are at war with each other.
| 377 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:27:22pm |
re: #363 windsagio
Its necessary to decontextualize the issue to make the point. I'm against assassination as a political tool. No matter how awful the target, I'll remain consistent in that position.
I've stated a few reasons in various posts above.
And I disagree. I'm not willing to let a terrorist keep hatching murder plots while hiding behind words on paper. If eliminating him means breaking the law, then the law should be broken. The first rule of war is to win.
| 378 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:27:39pm |
re: #344 Decatur Deb
And created upward mobility for his understudy.
Just like Amy Bishop cleared room for herself in the biology department?
| 379 |
simoom Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:28:26pm |
re: #149 Walter L. Newton
I haven't put much though into this, but I think I'd prefer governments to claim responsibility for their targeted killings and offer their justifications. For example, "He was a terrorist, responsible for the the deaths of a number of our citizens, plotting to kill more and therefore a continuing danger to our nation." It just seems that government sanctioned assassinations, with no accountability (total secrecy) is clearly open to abuse.
I get that it's often far easier diplomatically to not take responsibility, and that there are some gray areas (like if you're operating within a country, with the consent of the government, but maintaining secrecy at their behest as their citizens would react very badly to the cooperation).
| 380 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:28:26pm |
re: #361 reine.de.tout
Or maybe they could have caught him and tortured him for information.
Oh, wait - any discomfort brought to captives is not allowed.
Murdering someone, though - is OK?I'm being flip, of course.
The problem with these guys is that they either do not stay locked up for life, or they are able to run things from whatever cell they occupy. And imprisonment sends no message whatsoever to the ones ready to take his place.
Plus, now that he's dead, innocent civilians who would have been attacked will instead live. But hey, how many jooos does the world need, anyway?
//
| 381 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:29:28pm |
re: #375 albusteve
so in your view, it would be better to have the guy living because legally it's nearly impossible to to kill him otherwise?
I know I"m gonna get reamed out for this, but pretty much. Especially given that assassinating him could well simply inflame the Palestinians more (presuming it turns out to be Israel. Probably either way, actually)
| 382 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:29:36pm |
re: #378 Cato the Elder
Just like Amy Bishop cleared room for herself in the biology department?
It'll be easier for someone to get tenure.
| 383 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:30:33pm |
re: #366 reine.de.tout
And I probably meant "flippant" - Cato, correct me please?
Flip is perfectly fine. It's what my dreaded English teacher, Mrs. Edwards, used to say in seventh grade. "Don't be flip."
Gad, she tortured us. But she was also the first person to mention "Ulysses" in my hearing, which I promptly wheedled money out of my parents to buy.
| 384 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:30:41pm |
re: #363 windsagio
Its necessary to decontextualize the issue to make the point. I'm against assassination as a political tool. No matter how awful the target, I'll remain consistent in that position.
I've stated a few reasons in various posts above.
Fair play, and I don't object to your presenting your opinion. We should never contemplate the taking of human life lightly or ignore its consequences and moral dilemmas involved.
In the case of these terrorist, I believe the science is settled that they require killing. The debate is over the means.
| 385 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:31:11pm |
| 386 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:31:11pm |
re: #379 simoom
I haven't put much though into this, but I think I'd prefer governments to claim responsibility for their targeted killings and offer their justifications. For example, "He was a terrorist, responsible for the the deaths of a number of our citizens, plotting to kill more and therefore a continuing danger to our nation." It just seems that government sanctioned assassinations, with no accountability (total secrecy) is clearly open to abuse.
I get that it's often far easier diplomatically to not take responsibility, and that there are some gray areas (like if you're operating within a country, with the consent of the government, but maintaining secrecy at their behest as their citizens would react very badly to the cooperation).
Remember two facts: Israel's enemies are existential in intent. They want to "make wide slaughter" among the Jews and eliminate the state of Israel. And also the international community, unprincipled cynics that they so often are, is largely aligned against Israel. No one is going to protect Israel from Hamas other than Israel herself.
| 388 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:31:41pm |
re: #378 Cato the Elder
Oof, too soon, dude!
| 390 |
torrentprime Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:32:22pm |
re: #376 The Sanity Inspector
Okay, let's go ad absurdum on this argumentum of yours. It was wrong for Mehmet Ali Agca to try to assassinate Pope John Paul the Great in 1981. Shall we therefore forbid ourselves to cap Osama bin Laden, if we catch him in an unguarded moment? We're at war with him, and he with us, as surely as Israel and Hamas are at war with each other.
The point is "what are the rules we said we would follow," not "I'm going to recite a bunch of good and bad guy names." The question is, did we forbid ourselves to assassinate terrorists the week before 9/11? What is the law? Do any treaties apply? Why is asking what's legal - the nation such a terrorist-loving proposition?
You didn't make my argument absurd, you raised the absurd level on yours - by just reciting names, checking the scorecard. The whole "nation of laws, not men" thing seems to be relevant here.
| 391 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:32:42pm |
re: #383 Cato the Elder
Flip is perfectly fine. It's what my dreaded English teacher, Mrs. Edwards, used to say in seventh grade. "Don't be flip."
Gad, she tortured us. But she was also the first person to mention "Ulysses" in my hearing, which I promptly wheedled money out of my parents to buy.
flip is a pronoun...flippant is a proverb
| 392 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:32:52pm |
re: #366 reine.de.tout
And I probably meant "flippant" - Cato, correct me please?
You mean flippant, though it is likely derivative of flip.
I'll take the low hanging fruit and leave the tricksy stuff to Cato.
| 393 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:33:21pm |
If this was indeed the Mossad, it's a privilege to watch them in action. For a while, it seemed like they were losing their edge, with Keystone Koppish pratfalls like this.
| 394 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:33:38pm |
re: #385 windsagio
lol, bold. Its not just moral, I also think its good for international law... which is an important thing.
re: #377 Dark_Falcon
If thats the case, you better be damn sure that putting the guy down will help in the short AND long term.
I'msure in the short, term and as sure as can be in the long term. Not all long-term event can be foreseen and sometimes risks must be run.
| 395 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:33:46pm |
re: #391 albusteve
flip is a pronoun...flippant is a proverb
And flippancy will get you a term in juvie.
| 396 |
torrentprime Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:33:59pm |
re: #377 Dark_Falcon
And I disagree. I'm not willing to let a terrorist keep hatching murder plots while hiding behind words on paper. If eliminating him means breaking the law, then the law should be broken. The first rule of war is to win.
Even if the words are ours, and we pride ourselves on being a lawful society.
So was the law wrong? Should we put efforts into changing it? Or do we just disregard the law when we really really want to get somebody?
| 397 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:34:05pm |
re: #393 The Sanity Inspector
I'm personally enamoured with the idea that it was Dubai, and they're just pinning it on Israel. The question is why would the gov't of Dubai wanna whack the guy?
| 398 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:34:30pm |
| 399 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:34:43pm |
re: #392 Bagua
You mean flippant, though it is likely derivative of flip.
I'll take the low hanging fruit and leave the tricksy stuff to Cato.
Cato the Giraffe
| 400 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:34:48pm |
re: #380 The Sanity Inspector
Plus, now that he's dead, innocent civilians who would have been attacked will instead live. But hey, how many jooos does the world need, anyway?
//
Oh, hush.
I'm quite happy he's dead.
I'm glad it wasn't my job to see to it that he got dead.
| 401 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:35:25pm |
re: #214 wrenchwench
Floral Giraffe must have chased them out of her tree again.
West Nile Virus wiped out 80% of the ravens that used to roost here part of the year. They are beginning to rebound.
Hee Hee.
I don't have to chase them. They have learned that I don't like them in my tree. Very few land there, and if I walk outside, they fly off. They are VERY intelligent. Their poop has etched the paint off several places on my car.
| 402 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:35:32pm |
re: #397 windsagio
I'm personally enamoured with the idea that it was Dubai, and they're just pinning it on Israel. The question is why would the gov't of Dubai wanna whack the guy?
Have you been to Dubai?
He was stinking up the place, that's for damn sure.
| 403 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:35:34pm |
| 404 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:35:45pm |
| 405 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:35:54pm |
re: #401 Floral Giraffe
Hee Hee.
I don't have to chase them. They have learned that I don't like them in my tree. Very few land there, and if I walk outside, they fly off. They are VERY intelligent. Their poop has etched the paint off several places on my car.
That's why you should occasionally wash your car.
| 406 |
solomonpanting Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:36:01pm |
re: #396 torrentprime
Even if the words are ours, and we pride ourselves on being a lawful society.
So was the law wrong? Should we put efforts into changing it? Or do we just disregard the law when we really really want to get somebody?
All is fair in love and war
| 407 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:36:01pm |
| 408 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:36:07pm |
re: #324 albusteve
and did you notice how few people there where in this hotel?...that seemed a bit odd to me..if it was Vegas or mosy major cities, it would have been thriving with guests (until recently of course)
I bumped back to this post because I spent a lot of time in Dubai, 20+ years ago and it was a cool place then. No world record breaking towers, no great crowds. Lots of nice people (and half the population was Indian origin, with citizenship which really pissed off the Saudis who came over to get drunk on the weekends).
Truth is, the UAE could be what we would like to see in that part of the world; now all they have to do is take the next step and see what happens. Democracy; but not on the horizon as far as I know.
| 409 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:36:35pm |
re: #397 windsagio
I'm personally enamoured with the idea that it was Dubai, and they're just pinning it on Israel. The question is why would the gov't of Dubai wanna whack the guy?
Dear me.
Do you lose touch with reality often?
| 410 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:37:57pm |
re: #409 MandyManners
hmm... Are you 100% sure it was Mossad then? They deny it (well, of course) and there's been some interesting discussion on the subject upthread.
| 411 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:37:58pm |
re: #399 albusteve
Cato the Giraffe
Hah!
On my trip to Michigan last year, Haku and I visited the Kalama-Zoo.
They have this high platform where you can stand and feed and pet the giraffes. The sight of my dog standing face to face with a baby giraffe, his little tongue licking her ginormous one, was almost enough to make me fall over the railing.
| 412 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:37:58pm |
re: #396 torrentprime
Even if the words are ours, and we pride ourselves on being a lawful society.
So was the law wrong? Should we put efforts into changing it? Or do we just disregard the law when we really really want to get somebody?
a law could be written or changed I suppose, but in the meanwhile this guy is killing people...as I asked before, how do you legally kill the guy, today
| 413 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:38:05pm |
re: #407 windsagio
heh; fighting is one thing, good wordplay is quite another :D
Yes, but I do still hold out hopes that we can put aside the "fighting" as a partisan thing and just work to establish the truth in what we discuss.
| 414 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:38:07pm |
re: #229 Charles
Wow. This is one of the biggest crow conventions I've ever seen. They're putting out some serious decibels.
I've counted 92 in the park, across the street. I object to them for a couple of reasons, the volume, they eat songbirds, they raid the nests of smaller birds, and the mob, to drive off the hawks that nested in the park, in the years after the crow population was decimated by the West Nile Virus. Interesting that West Nile has really hit horses, crows & humans. IIRC the vector is mosquitos.
| 415 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:38:20pm |
re: #409 MandyManners
Dear me.
Do you lose touch with reality often?
Not nice, Mandy. Dial it back a bit.
| 416 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:39:09pm |
re: #414 Floral Giraffe
I've counted 92 in the park, across the street. I object to them for a couple of reasons, the volume, they eat songbirds, they raid the nests of smaller birds, and the mob, to drive off the hawks that nested in the park, in the years after the crow population was decimated by the West Nile Virus. Interesting that West Nile has really hit horses, crows & humans. IIRC the vector is mosquitos.
It is indeed the mosquito.
We have panic here every summer.
| 417 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:39:46pm |
re: #414 Floral Giraffe
I've counted 92 in the park, across the street. I object to them for a couple of reasons, the volume, they eat songbirds, they raid the nests of smaller birds, and the mob, to drive off the hawks that nested in the park, in the years after the crow population was decimated by the West Nile Virus. Interesting that West Nile has really hit horses, crows & humans. IIRC the vector is mosquitos.
Was he talking about real crows? For a minute there I thought he meant the thread. ;^)
| 418 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:39:59pm |
re: #410 windsagio
hmm... Are you 100% sure it was Mossad then? They deny it (well, of course) and there's been some interesting discussion on the subject upthread.
Of course it is denied.
To think that Fatah would have the capability?
Would the U.S. even "go there"?
Read Geroge Jonas. I'm sure his book is on Amazon.
| 419 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:40:20pm |
| 420 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:40:36pm |
re: #373 Cato the Elder
As Buddha he probably had some power that would have made it unnecessary, but as pre-Buddha he had no choice.
This makes me ask the question, is Buddha a philosopher or a god?
(and don't give me any crap about pre-Buddha :=))
| 421 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:40:48pm |
| 422 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:40:56pm |
re: #408 Naso Tang
I bumped back to this post because I spent a lot of time in Dubai, 20+ years ago and it was a cool place then. No world record breaking towers, no great crowds. Lots of nice people (and half the population was Indian origin, with citizenship which really pissed off the Saudis who came over to get drunk on the weekends).
Truth is, the UAE could be what we would like to see in that part of the world; now all they have to do is take the next step and see what happens. Democracy; but not on the horizon as far as I know.
some sort of free enterprise would be the next best thing
| 423 |
Racer X Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:41:08pm |
Whoever carried this out - I hope they are on our side.
| 424 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:41:48pm |
re: #418 MandyManners
I'm really not quite sure why this is worth conflict. Is it important that Mossad did it for some reason?
/I am pretty sure that the US wasn't responsible tho :P
| 425 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:42:18pm |
re: #423 Racer X
Whoever carried this out - I hope they are on our side.
That's an interesting comment, why is it important?
| 426 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:42:20pm |
| 427 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:42:40pm |
re: #373 Cato the Elder
There is a story about the Buddha in one of his pre-enlightenment lives. He was on a ferry crossing the Ganges with some 500 other people. He became aware that an insane man was about to scuttle the boat and drown everyone on board and their pigs and roosters, too. So he killed him.
As Buddha he probably had some power that would have made it unnecessary, but as pre-Buddha he had no choice.
You're on a good roll tonight!
Me, I'm just a poor sinner and would not hesitate to go Dirty Harry on the naked guy running down the alley, chasing a woman, with an axe and a hard-on.
| 428 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:42:41pm |
re: #420 Naso Tang
This makes me ask the question, is Buddha a philosopher or a god?
(and don't give me any crap about pre-Buddha :=))
Enlightened individual.
| 430 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:43:16pm |
re: #420 Naso Tang
This makes me ask the question, is Buddha a philosopher or a god?
(and don't give me any crap about pre-Buddha :=))
Neither. He is awake. (Root word in Pali: buddh, to awaken.)
| 431 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:43:17pm |
re: #411 Cato the Elder
Hah!
On my trip to Michigan last year, Haku and I visited the Kalama-Zoo.
They have this high platform where you can stand and feed and pet the giraffes. The sight of my dog standing face to face with a baby giraffe, his little tongue licking her ginormous one, was almost enough to make me fall over the railing.
my home town...anyway, the baby giraffe here in ABQ is a big hit, and I understand they are very tasty as well...a twofer
| 432 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:43:22pm |
| 433 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:44:27pm |
| 434 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:44:32pm |
re: #419 MandyManners
Why?
To maintain civility and peace. We need to ensure that we do not resort to personal attacks. I'm playing peacekeeper on such matters in the hopes of averting flame wars.
| 436 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:45:19pm |
re: #430 Cato the Elder
Neither. He is awake. (Root word in Pali: buddh, to awaken.)
Wait.. are you saying the Buddha was palastinian?
| 437 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:45:44pm |
re: #417 Cato the Elder
Was he talking about real crows? For a minute there I thought he meant the thread. ;^)
Cue the music from the Twilight Zone...
| 438 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:45:50pm |
re: #422 albusteve
There is plenty of free enterprise. That is what they are good at and always have been. It's a trader society from probably thousands of years ago, and they haven't let stuff like religion get in the way too much. Only problem in today's world is that they haven't let any particular unprofitable principle get in the way either.
| 439 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:45:50pm |
re: #434 Dark_Falcon
To maintain civility and peace. We need to ensure that we do not resort to personal attacks. I'm playing peacekeeper on such matters in the hopes of averting flame wars.
Well, I do appreciate your opinion but, I am free to chart my own path here.
| 440 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:46:03pm |
re: #397 windsagio
I'm personally enamoured with the idea that it was Dubai, and they're just pinning it on Israel. The question is why would the gov't of Dubai wanna whack the guy?
That could be. Maybe they don't want Palestinian terrorists setting up shop in their little wonderland. King Hussein kicked them out of Jordan in 1970 for all the trouble they caused. And when they resettled in Lebanon, that was one of the major exacerbating factors of the decade-long civil war that soon ensued.
For all their spray-marking about helping the Palestinians, in real life the other Arab governments want no part of them.
| 441 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:46:29pm |
re: #431 albusteve
my home town...anyway, the baby giraffe here in ABQ is a big hit, and I understand they are very tasty as well...a twofer
*whack*
| 442 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:47:42pm |
re: #440 The Sanity Inspector
For all their spray-marking about helping the Palestinians, in real life the other Arab governments want no part of them.
That is very true. Its one of my (many) pet theories that they use the "plight of the Palestinians" as a tool of societal control.
| 443 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:48:06pm |
re: #439 MandyManners
Well, I do appreciate your opinion but, I am free to chart my own path here.
Yes, you are. But I will keep advising you from time to time. You may accept my advise or reject it as you choose, but I hope that you will at least consider it.
| 444 |
WaveriderCA Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:48:19pm |
re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist
If you think getting rid of the union will help with that, you're on the wrong track.
And parents are banging down the doors to get their kids into the charter schools as opposed to the public schools because the standard public school equivalent is so good?
| 445 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:48:30pm |
| 446 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:48:53pm |
re: #428 Bagua
Enlightened individual.
I thought it was an enlightened one and a teacher who has taught the path to others.
| 447 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:48:53pm |
re: #431 albusteve
my home town...anyway, the baby giraffe here in ABQ is a big hit, and I understand they are very tasty as well...a twofer
You from the 'Zoo?
I like you better and better.
I was born in Ann Arbor, but my ancestral home is Marshall.
| 448 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:49:34pm |
re: #430 Cato the Elder
Neither. He is awake. (Root word in Pali: buddh, to awaken.)
I do really enjoy learning language roots; but in this case I wonder what is the word for pre-awaken?
As Mark Twain once said, is that where he was before he was born?
| 449 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:49:37pm |
If you like this story today, I highly reccomend the book
"Shibumi". Fiction, but could happen.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
| 450 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:49:53pm |
re: #442 windsagio
That is very true. Its one of my (many) pet theories that they use the "plight of the Palestinians" as a tool of societal control.
One of your pet theories? You don't know that that is a fairly conventional observation by people who study the issues?
| 451 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:50:07pm |
re: #371 albusteve
Didn't they get kicked out of Jordan for trying to take over?
| 452 |
Racer X Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:50:28pm |
re: #425 windsagio
That's an interesting comment, why is it important?
They came really really close to making it look like a natural death. These guys are good.
| 453 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:50:48pm |
re: #440 The Sanity Inspector
That could be. Maybe they don't want Palestinian terrorists setting up shop in their little wonderland. King Hussein kicked them out of Jordan in 1970 for all the trouble they caused. And when they resettled in Lebanon, that was one of the major exacerbating factors of the decade-long civil war that soon ensued.
For all their spray-marking about helping the Palestinians, in real life the other Arab governments want no part of them.
Black September.
See, Munich.
See, George Jonas.
See, Vengeance.
| 454 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:51:04pm |
re: #450 Bagua
If you project, and you're wrong about it, you're liable to get bitch-slapped.
| 455 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:51:05pm |
re: #443 Dark_Falcon
Pssst, it's "advice".
| 456 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:51:33pm |
re: #373 Cato the Elder
I was told that exact story. And that Buddha cried.
| 457 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:51:56pm |
re: #443 Dark_Falcon
Excuse me but, what in the world are you talking about?
| 458 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:52:10pm |
Breaking on TV big earthquake where China NK and Russia intersect...
| 459 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:52:38pm |
re: #458 Rightwingconspirator
Its God's punishment to the evil Commies!!!
| 460 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:53:00pm |
re: #455 Floral Giraffe
Pot? Meet Kettle?
You BOTH need Charles's spellcheck!
| 461 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:53:17pm |
re: #426 MandyManners
The story of how Israel took care of those who massacred their athletes.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
There was a made-for-TV movie based on that book, too--much better than the moral equivalence-y feature film Munich.
| 463 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:53:51pm |
re: #443 Dark_Falcon
Yes, you are. But I will keep advising you from time to time. You may accept my advise or reject it as you choose, but I hope that you will at least consider it.
What?
| 464 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:54:01pm |
re: #453 MandyManners
Black September.
See, Munich.
See, George Jonas.
See, Vengeance.
I remember them all.
| 465 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:54:41pm |
re: #449 Floral Giraffe
If you like this story today, I highly reccomend the book
"Shibumi". Fiction, but could happen.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
Wow. 126 five-star ratings out of 169. Just ordered for Kindle.
| 466 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:54:51pm |
re: #461 The Sanity Inspector
There was a made-for-TV movie based on that book, too--much better than the moral equivalence-y feature film Munich.
I've dipped into the latest lately. I don't do Hollywood.
| 467 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:54:57pm |
re: #446 reine.de.tout
I thought it was an enlightened one and a teacher who has taught the path to others.
Exactly, both enlightened and a spiritual teacher. Siddhartha Gautama was the premier enlightened one of our age. To the Chinese he was 'Ta Mo' from his last name. He brought his spiritual practices and Yoga to China where it became Chi Gong and Kung Fu.
| 468 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:55:06pm |
re: #457 MandyManners
Excuse me but, what in the world are you talking about?
Never mind. I can't figure out a good way to say it right now.
| 469 |
The Optimist Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:55:11pm |
Somewhere is a textbook on assinations. One of the questions is what is the first thing to do if you were sent to a foreign country as part of a team of 8 people to assisnate someone.
Answer: Send 7 people back home. Only one peerson is needed to kill someone.
There were too many people involved for this to be an Israeli job.
| 470 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:55:58pm |
re: #464 The Sanity Inspector
I remember them all.
Oh, the time I was a member of the CPUSA. Major shift going on.
| 471 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:56:12pm |
re: #459 windsagio
Its God's punishment to the evil Commies!!!
With any luck some concentration camps were wrecked, and some inmates can get away.
| 472 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:56:15pm |
re: #447 Cato the Elder
You from the 'Zoo?
I like you better and better.
I was born in Ann Arbor, but my ancestral home is Marshall.
I am...my dad and grandpa were friends of the Schulers...and A2 is still the best small city in America...small world eh?....I was raised and went to high school in Richland, up between BC and Kalamazoo...the Gull Lake area
| 473 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:56:45pm |
re: #468 Dark_Falcon
Never mind. I can't figure out a good way to say it right now.
Well, why not take a breath and figure it out?
| 474 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:56:50pm |
re: #454 windsagio
If you project, and you're wrong about it, you're liable to get bitch-slapped.
True 'dat.
| 475 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:58:52pm |
'kay, its been enjoyable, but I'm out to get some dindin. Laterz!
| 476 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:59:00pm |
re: #452 Racer X
They came really really close to making it look like a natural death. These guys are good.
Faking a natural death argues against Israeli involvement--wastes a teaching point.
| 477 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:59:03pm |
re: #451 Rightwingconspirator
Didn't they get kicked out of Jordan for trying to take over?
yes, and Arafat got hammered, big time...the whole Black September gig that the ME Arabs would like to forget
| 478 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:59:25pm |
re: #475 windsagio
'kay, its been enjoyable, but I'm out to get some dindin. Laterz!
Thank you for the friendly chat, much appreciated.
| 479 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:00:05pm |
re: #468 Dark_Falcon
Never mind. I can't figure out a good way to say it right now.
MYOB....works every time
| 480 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:00:42pm |
re: #477 albusteve
yes, and Arafat got hammered, big time...the whole Black September gig that the ME Arabs would like to forget
Yes, and no.
| 481 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:00:47pm |
| 482 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:00:52pm |
re: #477 albusteve
yes, and Arafat got hammered, big time...the whole Black September gig that the ME Arabs would like to forget
Forgetting is the only thing they are good at.
| 483 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:01:22pm |
re: #473 MandyManners
Well, why not take a breath and figure it out?
I had asked you to dial back the hostility. You thanked me, but said that you would chart your own path. I said that was your right, but asked that please listen to my requests, peace-promotion-wise, even if you ultimately decide not to follow them. It's not really a concern, though, since you do always listen to those who shown you respect.
| 484 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:01:26pm |
| 485 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:01:29pm |
re: #472 albusteve
I am...my dad and grandpa were friends of the Schulers...and A2 is still the best small city in America...small world eh?...I was raised and went to high school in Richland, up between BC and Kalamazoo...the Gull Lake area
Jeepers, I probably met your family at some point. Winn Schuler was a patient of my grandad's. I take my remaining Marshall family there every time I visit. Best prime rib roast this side of of the pond. I always ask for an end-piece.
| 486 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:02:21pm |
re: #400 reine.de.tout
Oh, hush.
I'm quite happy he's dead.
I'm glad it wasn't my job to see to it that he got dead.
Concur on both counts. I'd add that I'm glad it was somebody's job.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.
-- attributed to George Orwell
| 487 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:04:40pm |
re: #286 windsagio
I think its more wrong to support extra-legal hit squads sneaking into foreign countries, regardless of who the target is.
Just a bad precedent.
I know, I am repeating myself, but what is it we are doing with drones in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen and hopefully elsewhere?
| 488 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:04:57pm |
re: #483 Dark_Falcon
I had asked you to dial back the hostility. You thanked me, but said that you would chart your own path. I said that was your right, but asked that please listen to my requests, peace-promotion-wise, even if you ultimately decide not to follow them. It's not really a concern, though, since you do always listen to those who shown you respect.
Who are you to ask that in the first place?
| 489 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:05:34pm |
Let's pray for the rest of the active terrorists out there to meet a similar fate and for the safety of the brave men and women who risk their lives to protect us.
| 490 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:05:43pm |
re: #479 albusteve
MYOB...works every time
C'mon Steve. You don't, and neither do I. It's a public forum. We're always up in each others business. This place would be boring as hell if we weren't.
| 491 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:06:17pm |
re: #485 Cato the Elder
Jeepers, I probably met your family at some point. Winn Schuler was a patient of my grandad's. I take my remaining Marshall family there every time I visit. Best prime rib roast this side of of the pond. I always ask for an end-piece.
absolutey right about the prime rib...and good people too, the cornerstone of the community...Marshall is sort of old timy like that...I loved that area...Climax and Scotts and Augusta...my turf
| 492 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:06:22pm |
re: #482 Naso Tang
Naso - you still here?
I have a link for you - here IF you're interested.
I just wanted to show you - Mardi Gras celebrations are not all New Orleans-style debauchery. There are other sorts of debauchery. The link is about the "courir de Mardi Gras" that happens in South Louisiana.
| 493 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:06:37pm |
re: #488 MandyManners
Who are you to ask that in the first place?
I'm just trying to keep the peace. That said, it seems like I'm out of line. Forgive me, please, and forget I said anything.
| 494 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:07:00pm |
re: #487 Naso Tang
I know, I am repeating myself, but what is it we are doing with drones in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen and hopefully elsewhere?
At least whatever liquidation squad this was in the video didn't blow up a bunch of relatives and wedding guests into the bargain.
| 495 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:07:07pm |
re: #489 Bagua
I don't pray for that sort of thing, but I will keep my fingers crossed. Good enough?
| 496 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:07:21pm |
re: #490 Slumbering Behemoth
C'mon Steve. You don't, and neither do I. It's a public forum. We're always up in each others business. This place would be boring as hell if we weren't.
I never tell people what to post...not ever
| 497 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:07:50pm |
re: #493 Dark_Falcon
I'm just trying to keep the peace. That said, it seems like I'm out of line. Forgive me, please, and forget I said anything.
Have a good night, Dark_Falcon. May your dreams be sweet and restful.
| 498 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:08:31pm |
re: #488 MandyManners
Who are you to ask that in the first place?
Chill out people. I've probably had more booze than both of you together tonight, and I'm mello jello.
| 499 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:09:22pm |
re: #497 MandyManners
Have a good night, Dark_Falcon. May your dreams be sweet and restful.
Thank you, Mandy.
| 500 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:09:30pm |
re: #496 albusteve
C'mon bro, telling someone to MYOB is a bit like telling them what to post. Whatever, I'm not trying to bust your balls, I'm just trying to have some fun.
| 501 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:11:00pm |
re: #500 Slumbering Behemoth
C'mon bro, telling someone to MYOB is a bit like telling them what to post. Whatever, I'm not trying to bust your balls, I'm just trying to have some fun.
you can put it that way I suppose...I'm gonna write Ann Landers
| 502 |
Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:11:34pm |
re: #491 albusteve
absolutey right about the prime rib...and good people too, the cornerstone of the community...Marshall is sort of old timy like that...I loved that area...Climax and Scotts and Augusta...my turf
For those of you who wonder: Winn Schuler's is the best restaurant in Michigan. The original store is in Marshall. If you go there, mention my family name. Think Bogart.
They just celebrated 90 years last year. And they make the best damn dippin' cheese in America.
| 503 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:12:30pm |
re: #501 albusteve
Nooo! Don't tell on me. Please?
:)
| 504 |
Unakite Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:13:11pm |
re: #363 windsagio
Its necessary to decontextualize the issue to make the point. I'm against assassination as a political tool. No matter how awful the target, I'll remain consistent in that position.
I've stated a few reasons in various posts above.
I updinged you for holding to your beliefs, but a phrase like "Its necessary to decontextualize the issue" bothers me.
| 505 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:14:17pm |
re: #498 Naso Tang
Chill out people. I've probably had more booze than both of you together tonight, and I'm mello jello.
Interesting assumption.
| 506 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:14:55pm |
re: #465 Cato the Elder
It's fiction, but, oh so great!
Here's a biography for you, if you like this kind of thing.
"C" was Winston Churchill's spymaster.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
I've read ALL of Anthony Cave Brown's biographies.
He's awesome.
The "Wild Bill Donovan" one, is the worst of the lot.
| 507 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:18:38pm |
re: #505 MandyManners
Interesting assumption.
Since the infamous Urinary Lariat of Gravitational Defiance has yet to make an appearance, I'd say it's a pretty fair one.
;)
| 508 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:19:53pm |
re: #492 reine.de.tout
Naso - you still here?
I have a link for you - here IF you're interested.I just wanted to show you - Mardi Gras celebrations are not all New Orleans-style debauchery. There are other sorts of debauchery. The link is about the "courir de Mardi Gras" that happens in South Louisiana.
Thanks. I apologize for any earlier flippant comments, not meant badly.
The evolution of traditions is always interesting, the only sad part is that usually the evolution part is lost in the mists of time for most; but perhaps that is also the beauty of evolution, meaning new birth; or it could be just the number of drinks I had at the dinner with friends I just came from.
| 509 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:20:40pm |
| 510 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:21:44pm |
| 512 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:25:04pm |
re: #465 Cato the Elder
Ok, this is old, and doesn't appear to have a Kindle version.
Still, it's 9.5/10 on my fun reading/historical scale.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
| 513 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:44:08pm |
re: #465 Cato the Elder
Make an effort to read it as S-l-o-w-l-y as you can stand it.
It only improves the story!
| 515 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:51:15pm |
Mossad meets the video age...sigh...not good, not good at all. :(
| 516 |
rieux Wed, Feb 17, 2010 10:40:25pm |
re: #27 reine.de.tout
not sure how you can tell what was on the team's minds from this blurry footage. professional intelligence teams need to be able to act in a calm manner.
| 517 |
rieux Wed, Feb 17, 2010 10:41:37pm |
re: #31 shiplord kirel
the use of the identities was either a blunder by Mossad or very clever misdirection by someone else.
| 518 |
rieux Wed, Feb 17, 2010 10:45:07pm |
re: #65 brookly red
/ Q: is it better to be respected or feared?
depends on what neighborhood you live in.
| 519 |
rieux Wed, Feb 17, 2010 10:47:06pm |
re: #72 Joo-LiZ
If this was a Mossad hit, it doesn't make sense to me for them to have used recent immigrants' identities. That is like painting an arrow straight at Israel. Plus, I don't buy that they didn't know Dubai is covered with video cameras. I think whoever did this (assuming it wasn't the Mossad), knew exactly what they were doing and wanted people to look in Israel's direction.
.
exactly y thought
| 520 |
harlequinade Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:57:53am |
re: #384 Bagua
re: #305 MandyManners
re: #109 BunnyThief
You know, I've read all these comments about "He was a terrorist. He had it coming. Good Riddance" etc etc
And I'm sure you'd all agree, then, that if only the South African Govt would have taken out that awful terrorist, Nelson Mandela, in a similar way, it would have made things so much better.
I'm sure we all remember that Umkhonto we Sizwe was declared a terrorist organisation by the US, as well as the South African Govt.
Or is it only terrorists that we don't like we like to cheer about?
| 521 |
leprechaun Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:21:02am |
re: #269 WaveriderCA
It wasn't a negative comment. If you know Israel, you will realize that there are strikes here every year, for everything. Recently, the water authority employees went on strike for over a month...so they refused to measure the water level...
I have nothing against unions, even the corrupt ones. They definitely are a pain in the arse a lot of the time. But after living in Quebec for a while and seeing how much better most working class people live there compared to those in the U.S., I'll take the occasional striker and working class corruption over American workplace exploitation and executive malfeasance any day.
The whole concept of "fire at will" is pretty Neanderthal if you ask me. Only makes much sense if you expect most of your employees to act like the "Jersey Shore" crew.
And even then, pretty much every country that has basic employment protection law allows for termination with cause without prior notice.
The places where EPL and union agreements has caused problems it was mostly due to excessively high levels of legally mandated severance pay for laid off workers. Something most American workers (especially at the lower end of the skill spectrum) can only dream of.
| 522 |
WaveriderCA Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:30:36am |
re: #521 leprechaun
Fair enough. The worst things in the US are the highway robbery pensions that people in government get and even vote themselves in scandalous fashions. I wish there was some law that would at least repal back the amount government pays in pension to not more than they were paid total in their working career.
| 523 |
gaijinbiker Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:44:19am |
In related news, Steven Spielberg today announced he will be making "Munich 2: Dubai Boogaloo".
Nice work, mysterious hit team! A Hamas guy trying to pull off a job like this would have blown himself up and killed 100 innocent bystanders in the process... and he would have been in the wrong hotel.
| 524 |
gaijinbiker Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:47:22am |
re: #520 harlequinade
re: #305 MandyManners
re: #109 BunnyThief
You know, I've read all these comments about "He was a terrorist. He had it coming. Good Riddance" etc etc
And I'm sure you'd all agree, then, that if only the South African Govt would have taken out that awful terrorist, Nelson Mandela, in a similar way, it would have made things so much better.
I'm sure we all remember that Umkhonto we Sizwe was declared a terrorist organisation by the US, as well as the South African Govt.
Or is it only terrorists that we don't like we like to cheer about?
How many school buses and restaurants full of innocent civilians did Nelson Mandela blow up?
| 525 |
Bagua Thu, Feb 18, 2010 5:36:42am |
re: #520 harlequinade
re: #305 MandyManners
re: #109 BunnyThief
You know, I've read all these comments about "He was a terrorist. He had it coming. Good Riddance" etc etc
And I'm sure you'd all agree, then, that if only the South African Govt would have taken out that awful terrorist, Nelson Mandela, in a similar way, it would have made things so much better.
I'm sure we all remember that Umkhonto we Sizwe was declared a terrorist organisation by the US, as well as the South African Govt.
Or is it only terrorists that we don't like we like to cheer about?
Nelson Mandela led the military group that attacked the army and government, later they started killing civilians as well. Of course he was a legitimate target during the armed revolt, Mandela later admitted that the ANC had violated human rights.
That is as far as your false comparison goes. The ANC was fighting an oppressive government, the Hamas are brutal terrorists who oppress their own people.
| 526 |
maryatexitzero Thu, Feb 18, 2010 7:40:38am |
re: #520 harlequinade
Or is it only terrorists that we don't like we like to cheer about?
Hamas's stated goal is to destroy Israel. Hamas is also the Palestinian wing of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood manages the financial, military and ideological terrorist infrastructure that supports Islamist groups like al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba and Hizb-ut-Tahrir. These groups are not only responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people, they are at war with us and our allies. They are our enemies.
When you're at war with someone, you're supposed to kill the enemy soldiers, even if (especially if) they're not wearing uniforms. If you don't do this, you lose the war. These basic rules apply to both sides.
During wartime, when enemies are defeated, the winners are not obligated to feel sorry for the losers.
I can't believe how weak the Arabs look here. They didn't prevent this attack, it took them weeks to figure out what happened and they didn't even have the petty cash to give the doofus from Hamas a bodyguard. Now they're crying to the international community to help them. They must be really low on cash.
| 527 |
Jerusalemyte Thu, Feb 18, 2010 7:52:49am |
re: #492 reine.de.tout
What does Shrove Tuesday have to do with Dubai? Mon Vieux?
Oh, I get it! The disguises.
Tres Bien. Vraiment, Tres Bien.
| 528 |
Petero1818 Thu, Feb 18, 2010 8:18:18am |
re: #519 rieux
I have no doubt this was a Mossad hit, and I think well done. Actually the practice of using passports of dual citizenship Israelis is a Mossad hallmark. I actually know the Canadian whose passport was used years ago in the bungled Khalid Meshal assasination attempt.
| 529 |
harlequinade Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:34:07am |
re: #525 Bagua
Nelson Mandela led the military group that attacked the army and government, later they started killing civilians as well. Of course he was a legitimate target during the armed revolt, Mandela later admitted that the ANC had violated human rights.
That is as far as your false comparison goes. The ANC was fighting an oppressive government, the Hamas are brutal terrorists who oppress their own people.
Ah - so there's degrees of terrorist. Not all terror is the same?
Just so we're all clear on this, I'm not a fan of violence of any sort. I think "dancing with joy over the murder of someone" is appalling, not matter who it is.
Which is why I'm complaining.
| 530 |
harlequinade Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:38:32am |
Further more - as the UK's Channel 4 News is reporting - that his could happen at all is not a good thing
| 531 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:44:35am |
Is a terrorist worth killing only worth killing because he is one I oppose?
Yes.
Absolutely.
It is called "having enemies".
Now there are some who would like very much to pretend that they do not have enemies. they like to consider themselves pacifists and, by their reasoning, are exempt from being someone's enemy.
Yet, if that same person does not pray to the right god ro offer active assistance to the correct violent theocratic effort, s/he is still an enemy of that cause by that causes own rules.
Hamas is such an organization. A Jew is an enemy of Hamas for the simple act of respiration on any and all soil claimed by the Umah. Any and all Americans not sworn to Al Qaeda's cause is the enemy of Al Qaeda (as declared by Osama Bin Laden himself) wherever on this orb that American happens to be situated.
We can indulge ourselves in a moral masturbation and pretend that our open mindedness and ability to walk in the shoes of "the other" somehow exempts us from enemies and makes us universal humanitarian citizens. But whether or not you are someone's enemy is not your choice - it is theirs. And when they choose to act, you or people like you (people who thought they had no enemies) are most often the victim. That is precisely how terrorism works, and this western post-modern self-lie of "universalism" that baits the terrorist. You are their target. And, after the shock of the attack, you will rationalize what they did and try to go back to "normal" which simply creates the fertile ground for them to sow their next crop.
| 532 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:53:52am |
Anyone wondering how the Dubai police were able to put together all of that video, it is actually very simple.
The assassination team made the "mistake" of screwing with the lock. The investigators had a dead guy in a room who happens to be a Hamas big wig. So they check the records on the room and see that someone screwed with the lock. They have a time and a place. they check the video and they have a guy and gal monitoring the corridor. Bingo.
Now they look at all the video to see when that guy and gal came on to the floor. From that they get the execution teams. Now they know they have a murder. The video is pulled on the comings and goings of the victim. They find the two surveillance teams starting with the squash players who get on the elevator with the guy as he arrives and ending with the guy following him out as he leaves the hotel.
After that it is brute force work of tracing these people back to hotels, and the shopping center from which their shopping bags came.
They also sent text messages back to Austria, so the cell tower records tell you where they were approximately, telling you which hotels to pull video from and when.
Clever.
| 533 |
Super-ego Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:17:01am |
One down...
I never really liked silent movies, but I could watch another one just like it.
| 534 |
Bluto8 Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:51:06pm |
re: #16 MandyManners
Yep, check this out. [Link: www.bigassfans.com...]
| 535 |
Ilan Toren Thu, Feb 18, 2010 7:02:37pm |
If Israel was responsible then it would be because so some present threat not some past revenge, I would think. It was a pretty high cost and risk operation. I think that the take home lesson is that there is enough video surveillance in a place like Dubai that the Big Brother can track you pretty completely, but only after the fact. I'd imagine that someday all those cameras will be linked in real time and face recognition software will relate people to paths and other people. Still it all looked pretty mundane and normal. The only evidence of murder is the correlation between people with fake passports in the hotel at the time Mahmoud died.
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ...
Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
Abortions Outside Medical System Increased Sharply After Roe Fell, Study Finds The number of women using abortion pills to end their pregnancies on their own without the direct involvement of a U.S.-based medical provider rose sharply in the months after the Supreme Court eliminated a constitutional right to abortion, according ... Cheechako
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
