CPAC Pre-Game Thread

The Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) starts tomorrow, featuring the John Birch Society as a co-sponsor; here’s the schedule for the first day: CPAC 2010 : Thursday, February 18, 2010.

Speakers this year include:

Hon. Dick Armey
Hon. John Ashcroft
Rep. Michele Bachmann
Glenn Beck [The keynote speaker. – ed.]
Amb. John Bolton
Andrew Breitbart
Herman Cain
Tucker Carlson
Liz Cheney
Ann Coulter
Sen. Jim DeMint
Hon. Newt Gingrich
David Keene
Wayne LaPierre
Rep. Ron Paul
Gov. Tim Pawlenty
Rep. Mike Pence
Rep. Tom Price
Hon. Mitt Romney
Hon. Marco Rubio
Hon. Rick Santorum
Hon. J.C. Watts
George F. Will
Judge Andrew Napolitano
Phyllis Schlafly

UPDATE at 2/17/10 6:19:49 pm:

The John Birch Society’s booth at CPAC sure looks nice and clean: The united colors of the John Birch Society.

Jump to bottom

211 comments
1 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:14:42pm

Wow! Phyllis Schlafly must be at least 107 years old by now.

*googling*

Well, almost, turns out she’s 85.

2 checked08  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:15:34pm
Tucker Carlson


hahahaha

3 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:16:17pm

Ron Paul!

4 Racer X  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:16:54pm

On a related note:

Rise In Teen Pregnancy Proves Teens Still Got It

While many are impressed by the overall results, some officials have pointed out that teens are still a long way away from being the lean mean teen machines they once were.

“It would be unrealistic to think that we could get back to the levels of the late 1980s,” said Bill Corr, deputy secretary of Health and Human Services. “Not only did those teens have it, but they flaunted it and made us all wish we had it like that, too.”

(The Onion)

5 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:17:05pm

re: #1 Shiplord Kirel

Wow! Phyllis Schlafly must be at least 107 years old by now.

*googling*

Well, almost, turns out she’s 85.

That’s exactly what caught my eye when I went through the list. I didn’t realize she was still alive.

6 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:17:42pm

This is the Birch Society’s big moment. I’m pretty sure the CPAC organizers are helping to screen the Birch Society’s literature to help the appear non-crazy. Everybody knows the lefty bloggers are going to focus on the Birch Society. Can they avoid seriously bad publicity?

7 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:18:17pm

Run for the exits.

Somehow that list represents a break from the past and a new movement?

Does CPAC have a commemorative Barf Bag for sale?

8 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:18:38pm

I don’t like sports threads.

9 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:20:22pm

The John Birch Society’s booth at CPAC:

Image: ZZ2B8F8565.jpg

10 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:20:26pm

re: #8 Walter L. Newton

I don’t like sports threads.

ready or not here it comes…

11 LotharBot  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:21:27pm

re: #3 Charles

Ron Paul!

need a poll.

12 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:21:30pm

Here’s an article on CPAC that ran on FoxNews’ website today. Its not hostile, but its not a whitewash either. It correctly mentions some of Pam Geller’s insanity:

CPAC Session on Jihad, Free Speech Attracts Complaints

13 Racer X  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:22:58pm

There was a piece on ABC news last night about the wackiness amongst the Tea Party crowd.

Wheels are coming off.

14 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:23:24pm

re: #9 Charles

The John Birch Society’s booth at CPAC:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Think of the Children!

I hate that sort of emotional appeal, no matter which group does it.

15 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:24:32pm

re: #13 Racer X

There was a piece on ABC news last night about the wackiness amongst the Tea Party crowd.

Wheels are coming off.

on the other hand they are meeting with the RNC… new wheels.

16 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:27:50pm

Bonsai!

17 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:29:26pm

I’m sorta tempted to re arrange the list from sanest at the top to wingnuttiest at the bottom. Who is the sanest of the whole bunch?

18 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:30:57pm

I gotta admit Beck as the keynote speaker disturbs me…

19 ulmsey123  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:31:18pm

Embrace big government. Denounce the Constitution. Whatever. I won’t.
It’s so important to declare your position. It’s so important to associate with a specific crowd. Why?
Jerks grow like mushrooms. Why define yourself around them?
We are all individuals with individual thoughts and dreams.
Don’t run with the pack of wolves.

“We the People…..”
Doesn’t that mean something to you?

Is it funny?

20 wee fury  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:31:22pm

Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Library is a cosponsor.

21 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:31:34pm

re: #17 Rightwingconspirator

I’m sorta tempted to re arrange the list from sanest at the top to wingnuttiest at the bottom. Who is the sanest of the whole bunch?

John Bolton is quite sane.

22 LotharBot  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:31:34pm

re: #17 Rightwingconspirator

I’m sorta tempted to re arrange the list from sanest at the top to wingnuttiest at the bottom. Who is the sanest of the whole bunch?

Like I said in #11 we need a poll.

Wonder if the Ron Paulians would stuff this one too…

23 freetoken  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:32:12pm

re: #17 Rightwingconspirator

Well, I would have said Romney, but that he allows himself to be on the same list as some of those people immediately brings into doubt his own sanity.

24 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:32:14pm

re: #19 ulmsey123

TFK, is that you?

25 avanti  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:32:21pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout

This is the Birch Society’s big moment. I’m pretty sure the CPAC organizers are helping to screen the Birch Society’s literature to help the appear non-crazy. Everybody knows the lefty bloggers are going to focus on the Birch Society. Can they avoid seriously bad publicity?

How the hell did the Bircher’s get mainstreamed ?

26 akarra  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:32:39pm

re: #18 brookly red

I gotta admit Beck as the keynote speaker disturbs me…

A lot of things about CPAC this year disturb me.

27 HoosierHoops  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:33:16pm

Glenn Beck? Key speaker?
Please Glenn..Wear the big red nose and the oversized clown shoes..
If we can’t laugh at you, who can we laugh at?
/Grow the F*ck up Clown

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:33:20pm

re: #19 ulmsey123

Embrace big government. Denounce the Constitution. Whatever. I won’t.
It’s so important to declare your position. It’s so important to associate with a specific crowd. Why?
Jerks grow like mushrooms. Why define yourself around them?
We are all individuals with individual thoughts and dreams.
Don’t run with the pack of wolves.

“We the People…”
Doesn’t that mean something to you?

Is it funny?

You won’t denounce the Constitution? Well, I won’t kill puppies! So there!

Who in God’s name is asking you to denounce the Constitution?

29 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:33:29pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

TFK, is that you?

Chomp, chomp, chomp. (obscure, yes but said often)

30 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:33:35pm

re: #17 Rightwingconspirator

I’m sorta tempted to re arrange the list from sanest at the top to wingnuttiest at the bottom. Who is the sanest of the whole bunch?

Hmmm, that’s a tough call. I guess Mitt would be the only non-lunatic I see on the whole list.

31 wee fury  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:34:00pm

re: #26 akarra

A lot of things about CPAC this year disturb me.

It is embracing everyone and everything.

32 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:34:19pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

Yes - the claim that “it is for the children” gets trotted out all the time.

Interesting thing about JBS - they absolutely hate the UN. But if there is anything the UN deserves props for it is advancing children’s issues globally. Be it vaccinations, hunger, child slavery, the UN usually is on the right side (abuse of children by UN peace keeping troops notwithstanding) .

Another thing - notice those children have white shiny teeth? Are they fluoridation victims?

33 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:34:42pm

re: #25 avanti

10%+ unemployment, a huge Dem majority, a near depression and a screaming money supply for starters.

34 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:34:45pm

re: #26 akarra

A lot of things about CPAC this year disturb me.

well as I said, ready or not here it comes & it is coming hard.

35 wee fury  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:35:26pm

Judicial Watch is another cosponsor.

36 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:35:27pm

re: #25 avanti

How the hell did the Bircher’s get mainstreamed ?


Mostly through Glenn Beck and the Koch Family .

37 avanti  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:36:11pm

re: #33 Rightwingconspirator

10%+ unemployment, a huge Dem majority, a near depression and a screaming money supply for starters.

It’s under 10 % and heading down slowly, not a huge majority, not even a recession anymore, but I agree about the money.

38 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:36:13pm

They don’t seem to have the 13 yr old prodigy. I was so hoping he’d give a sex education class this year.

39 theheat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:36:17pm

If you were trolling for crazy you wouldn’t get odds that good in Vegas.

I see a lot of names there of people who… should be getting coal in their stocking.

Major suckage. Surprised? Not in the slightest!

40 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:36:19pm

re: #19 ulmsey123

We are all individuals with individual thoughts and dreams.
Don’t run with the pack of wolves.

Now that is funny. An atavistic, reactionary movement that cheers on conspiracy theorists and bigots, yet somehow isn’t running with a pack of wolves.

41 freetoken  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:36:31pm

The least known on the list is probably Herman Cain, whose presence will be touted as an example of how integrated and non-racist the CPACers are. The evidence seems overwhelming that he is a first class Religious Right type of “conservative”.

42 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:37:19pm

I am surprised that C & D Products aren’t a sponsor.

They make these fine products.

43 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:37:31pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Newt is a very canny Republican who did some good things with the Dems during Clintons admin. George will is a sane advocate for conservatism, its not fair to confuse what you think is wrong with nutty. Anyway I put Bachmann at the very bottom with Beck and Brietbart. 3 way tie maybe.

44 keloyd  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:38:16pm

What we have here is a failure to communicate the true agenda of JBS. That list of speakers consists of mostly rational, well informed, non-wingnuts. This is consistent with the public face, or at least the wafer thin electroplated surface of JBS.

Seriously, go check out JBS’s site. They’re trying very hard to look mainstream, as if Karl Rove, Dick Morris, the Devil, Machiavelli, Sun Tzu and James Carville put their heads together. Those multi-ethnic smiling families and children are spooky, like those motivational corporate posters.

45 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:38:17pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

John Bolton is quite sane.

Yet he loves rubbing elbows with the spray-tan harpy. I dunno, his sanity may be suspect.

46 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:38:22pm

re: #41 freetoken

The least known on the list is probably Herman Cain, whose presence will be touted as an example of how integrated and non-racist the CPACers are. The evidence seems overwhelming that he is a first class Religious Right type of “conservative”.

Was Alan Keyes busy?

47 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:38:48pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

John Bolton is quite insane.

Typo corrected. I got your back, DF.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:38:53pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Hmmm, that’s a tough call. I guess Mitt would be the only non-lunatic I see on the whole list.

SOme of them I don’t know. Now, George Will is not always my most favorite person, but I don’t THINK he’s a lunatic.

49 torrentprime  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:38:55pm

re: #27 HoosierHoops

Glenn Beck? Key speaker?
Please Glenn..Wear the big red nose and the oversized clown shoes..
If we can’t laugh at you, who can we laugh at?
/Grow the F*ck up Clown

You’ve seen the Republican clown pictures, right?

50 theheat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:39:04pm

re: #43 Rightwingconspirator

Newt is to integrity what Tiger Woods is to fidelity.

Come to think of it, they both share a few traits in that direction.

51 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:39:39pm

re: #47 Olsonist

Typo corrected. I got your back, DF.

SMACK!

52 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:39:56pm

re: #37 avanti

Well I would say they got revived at the worst of it. Unemployment is 12% in my state and if you include forced part timers you get a big legit number. Absent a feeling of panic and these guys go away again. We will see them get put back in their place, I’m confident of that.

53 torrentprime  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:41:54pm

re: #49 torrentprime

You’ve seen the Republican clown pictures, right?

Found it.
Bachman and Gingrich might be the best.

54 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:42:08pm

re: #50 theheat

Will Toyota really be Tigers next big endorsement deal? Newt has his critics but most of them are very deliberately unaware of his achievements. Like the post Ames FISA negotiations.

55 HoosierHoops  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:42:09pm

re: #49 torrentprime

You’ve seen the Republican clown pictures, right?

No..Was Glenn Beck running through the White House dressed as Rambo killing all the Commies with an M60?
Has he finally saved the Country?
/Clown

56 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:42:10pm

There’s a seekrit message in that photo.

The little Asian girl is about to strangle the little blond Cauc(asian) boy, who is about to strangle the little black girl.

JBS message, hidden in plain sight!

57 freetoken  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:42:20pm

There are some… how can we say… “choice” topics coming up at CPAC, such as this one on Saturday:

2:00
You’ve Been Lied To: Why Real Conservatives are Against the War on Terror
Delaware Ballroom
Sponsored by Campaign for Liberty (60 minutes)
Speakers: Retired U.S. Air Force Lt. Karen Kwiatkowski and Jacob Hornberger, President of FFF

58 freetoken  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:43:22pm

re: #56 Cato the Elder

Yeah, and not only that, but the height of the children probably correspond to a message about IQ too…

59 simoom  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:43:49pm

I wonder if anyone at Fox News Channel sees any journalistic ethics issues with cosponsoring the political event you’re covering?

[Link: www.24-7pressrelease.com…]

NEW YORK, NY, February 12, 2010 /24-7PressRelease/ — XPAC 2010 is an entertainment experience targeting “generation next” who plan to attend CPAC. Experts say the energy behind the event sends a serious message to the future of elective politics.

Topics of discussion include: Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, the Acorn Scandal and others breaking news stories.

SPONSORS:
American Future Fund
[Link: www.americanfuturefund.com…]
Base Connect
[Link: www.base-connect.com…]
Focus on the Family
[Link: www.RisingVoice.com…]
Constitution Coach Kit
[Link: www.powerthink.com…]
Chews4Troops
[Link: www.eatlesscheatless.com…]
Big Right TV
[Link: www.bigrighttv.com…]
Fox News
[Link: live.foxnews.com…]

60 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:45:03pm

re: #43 Rightwingconspirator

Gingrich was brilliant as a political strategist in creating a Republican Congressional majority. Brilliant. He however take his game to the higher level of governing. I think he was campaigning for the next office (Presidency?) rather than getting something done. The Air Force One episode was telling.

61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:45:39pm

re: #53 torrentprime

Found it.
Bachman and Gingrich might be the best.

I gotta say, regardless of which side of the aisle you stand on, that is some excellent photoshopping. No ham-fisted, Kos Kiddie, Lieberman in black-face crap work there.

62 Racer X  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:46:49pm

Its funny how things flip:

War on terror is bad!
Left 2008 / Right 2010

Unemployment is up!
Left 2008 / Right 2010

63 jaunte  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:47:41pm

There are some good identifiers of demagoguery listed at the link below; save them for the drinking game later:

Indigenous to the demagogue’s extensive use of unidimensionality has been the common practice of scapegoating: the hostile targeting of select groups for condemnation and blame. Important to note is that these groups may be identified by ethnicity, race, or religion, of course, but just as easily by political ideology. Akin to the notional convenience of scapegoats is the historiographical concept of the “Other”: those Americans, as Southern historian Sheldon Hackney described them, standing “in opposition to a presumed American norm.” As such, they are easy targets. It is they who are responsible for the problems of crime or unemployment, for instance; or they may be responsible for cultural upheavals that seemingly threaten traditional values, or even for America’s sagging international standing, if that is the case. The “Other” must be to blame for these conditions, for “we”—the true Americans—continue to uphold all that is good and socially manageable.
[Link: hnn.us…]
64 theheat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:49:03pm

re: #54 Rightwingconspirator

Years ago I, when I used to listen to Rush, I followed old Newtie’s scapades. Yes, he accomplished a lot. He’s also a world class douchebag, in spite of it. Like a cherry with a big ole turd on top.

65 avanti  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:49:58pm

re: #52 Rightwingconspirator

Well I would say they got revived at the worst of it. Unemployment is 12% in my state and if you include forced part timers you get a big legit number. Absent a feeling of panic and these guys go away again. We will see them get put back in their place, I’m confident of that.

It’s still bad out there, but lots of early signs of a turnaround. Sadly, the biggest winners are those that bought on the dips in the market. They make money well before the jobs recover.

66 akarra  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:51:34pm

re: #59 simoom

I wonder if anyone at Fox News Channel sees any journalistic ethics issues with cosponsoring the political event you’re covering?

[Link: www.24-7pressrelease.com…]

Thank you!

67 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:52:30pm

re: #56 Cato the Elder

There’s a seekrit message in that photo.

The little Asian girl is about to strangle the little blond Cauc(asian) boy, who is about to strangle the little black girl.

JBS message, hidden in plain sight!

Chicoms!

68 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:53:12pm

re: #65 avanti

It’s still bad out there, but lots of early signs of a turnaround. Sadly, the biggest winners are those that bought on the dips in the market. They make money well before the jobs recover.

dude “out there” is tens of millions of people… you may just say something about cake that will not sit well.

69 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:55:06pm

re: #19 ulmsey123

Embrace big government. Denounce the Constitution. Whatever. I won’t.

Yes - that is the only choice. Big Government regulating every aspect of commerce or Big Government regulating every aspect of genitalia.

I prefer to call them all ass hats.

70 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 6:55:24pm

BBL Dinnertime!

71 webevintage  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:00:21pm

Good times!!

72 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:02:16pm

re: #69 karmic_inquisitor

That’s the gist of the silliness. Seen here once before with the denunciation of Euro-Fascists (“If you’re against embracing the EFs, then you must be pro-Jihad”), and now again with the denunciation of this group of Bonsai! reactionaries (“If you’re against embracing the TPs, then you must love Big Government and hate the Constitution. And Jesus too!”).

It’s ridiculous, binary thinking. Childish logic, beneath any reasoning adult.

73 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:03:43pm

re: #19 ulmsey123

Does it mean nothing to you to hang out with the crazies? Do you not see how they’ll take you down the shithole with them? Oh, and please stop with the ‘attacks on the Constitution’ meme, mmmkay? Just because I don’t like the TP movement doesn’t mean I ‘denounce’ the Constitution.

Oh, and GAZE.

74 freetoken  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:06:18pm

More from Saturday’s schedule:

2:45
Saving Freedom on College Campuses
Marriott Ballroom
Alan Charles Kors, University of Pennsylvania
Stephen Balch, National Association of Scholars (Invited)
T. Kenneth Cribb, Intercollegiate Studies Institute (Invited)

Moderator: Ron Robinson, Young America’s Foundation

Well, we all know about the YAF, but what about the ISI? In a nutshell, the ISI is similar to the YAF but with better sounding degrees. They published a review of 20th century books listing what they consider to be the “worst 50” and the “best 50”:

[PDF] The Fifty Worst (and Best) Books of the Century

On the “worst” list is such works such as

John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (1956)
John Maynard Keynes, The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money (1936)
Karl Popper, The Open Society and its Enemies (1950)
Bertrand Russell, Why I am Not A Christian (1936)

And on the “best” list there appears to be a very disproportionate interest in the South (versus other areas of the US.)

You just have to search their site for “Darwin” to get a clue as to where they are coming from.

CPAC: where nothing is too backwards to be exploited.

75 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:06:34pm

Since Pam Geller has now morphed into a voice of the “right” with enough clout to “debate” Ron Reagan and lecture him on his dad on the Joy Behar show (when she told Joy to her face that she is not a “real Merkin”), I’m assuming she’s an invited speaker.

Am I wrong?

76 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:08:09pm

re: #73 Varek Raith

Does it mean nothing to you to hang out with the crazies? Do you not see how they’ll take you down the shithole with them? Oh, and please stop with the ‘attacks on the Constitution’ meme, mmmkay? Just because I don’t like the TP movement doesn’t mean I ‘denounce’ the Constitution.

Oh, and GAZE.

Forget that guy. He speaks like taxfreekiller. Even if he isn’t a sockpuppet of the genuine article, he walks the same path to Bad Craziness.

77 webevintage  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:08:30pm

re: #19 ulmsey123


Embrace big government. Denounce the Constitution.
………..
“We the People…”
Doesn’t that mean something to you?

Yes.
It means I am one of the people too and I am a liberal.

and who the fuck is telling anyone to denounce the Constitution?

78 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:08:43pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Forget that guy. He speaks like taxfreekiller. Even if he isn’t a sockpuppet of the genuine article, he walks the same path to Bad Craziness.

True.

79 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:12:34pm

re: #18 brookly red

I gotta admit Beck as the keynote speaker disturbs me…

he’s the money man…no surprise

80 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:13:00pm

re: #74 freetoken

Interesting. The Pentagon Papers was written by … wait for it … The Pentagon.

81 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:13:23pm

re: #65 avanti

It’s still bad out there, but lots of early signs of a turnaround. Sadly, the biggest winners are those that bought on the dips in the market. They make money well before the jobs recover.

B+!

82 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:14:23pm

re: #5 RogueOne

That’s exactly what caught my eye when I went through the list. I didn’t realize she was still alive.

A lot of people have that problem when they meet her.

83 jaunte  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:15:11pm

re: #74 freetoken

Here’s an odd one for the worst books list:

Philip Johnson and Henry Russell Hitchcock, The International Style (1966).
Build ugly buildings, wear funny glasses, make lots of money, and justify it all by writing a book.


I thought they were in favor of making money. Not for those with funny glasses, I guess.

84 avanti  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:16:50pm

re: #68 brookly red

dude “out there” is tens of millions of people… you may just say something about cake that will not sit well.

I’m not disagreeing, but it is better. We loosing 700,000 jobs/month, now about to go positive. the market is up 60%, GDP is growing, housing s improving and the rest. We didn’t get in this mess in a year, and it’ll take longer than that to dig out.

85 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:17:19pm

Wow, an all white “native born” line-up. What a surprise.

86 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:17:21pm

re: #74 freetoken

ISI supports a network of college papers through a grant program—Can you spell “O’Keefe”?

[Link: minnesotaindependent.com…]

87 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:18:30pm

re: #17 Rightwingconspirator

I’m sorta tempted to re arrange the list from sanest at the top to wingnuttiest at the bottom. Who is the sanest of the whole bunch?

George Will, among the pundits. Couldn’t say among the politicians.

88 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:20:04pm

re: #5 RogueOne

That’s exactly what caught my eye when I went through the list. I didn’t realize she was still alive.

Look for her to get the Grand Old Lady treatment. She was one of the movers of the Right’s comeback in the late 70s.

89 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:22:30pm

The Party if No™

Can gay couples get married: no.
Can women get abortions: no.
Should stem cell research proceed: no.
Should pot be legalized: no.
Should intelligent design be kept out of the classroom: no.
Should gays be allowed to serve in the military: no.
Should DADT be repealed: no.
Should gays be allowed to adopt: no.
Should there be health care reform: no.
Should women serve in combat: no.
Should there be amnesty for illegal immigrants: no.
Should there be CAFÉ standards: no.
Death with dignity: no.

A little list I started working on earlier.

90 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:23:16pm

re: #89 Gus 802

Really, because it’s all about freedom.

91 Gus  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:24:22pm

re: #90 Olsonist

Really, because it’s all about freedom.

And pershonnel [sic] responsibility.

/

92 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:24:32pm

re: #84 avanti

I’m not disagreeing, but it is better. We loosing 700,000 jobs/month, now about to go positive. the market is up 60%, GDP is growing, housing s improving and the rest. We didn’t get in this mess in a year, and it’ll take longer than that to dig out.

your optimism is astounding…but this post repeats the same old talking points, and Ill say again, the market is only one small and really, least significant indicator…life in America is all about small business and they are getting killed with no end in sight…BOs spending combined with his overall negative perception has dragged us down…people don’t like him or trust him…that’s why we have this TP phenomenon…the donks have seriously misfired

93 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:25:08pm

re: #85 Gus 802

Wow, an all white “native born” line-up. What a surprise.

no shit?…good catch

94 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:25:46pm

re: #90 Olsonist

Really, because it’s all about freedom.

so true. hope you are ready :)

95 Vambo  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:28:09pm

re: #32 karmic_inquisitor


Another thing - notice those children have white shiny teeth? Are they fluoridation victims?

can I nominate this for comment of the night? do we do that here?

96 mich-again  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:30:26pm

Well here is your nutty Conspiracy Theory du jour, compliments of the American Free Press, which is the unofficial newsletter of the Birchers. Big Oil Behind Haiti Quake? Oh the Birchers won’t publicly claim the American Free Press as their newsletter, but all the Birchers I know get it, read it and buy into the crap. (Yes I know some true blue Birchers and love reading through the pamphlets and magazines when I am around to visit) In the last couple years the JBS has sanitized their official website of overt antisemitism and nutty CT’s as part of their effort to weasel their way back into the mainstream. So the AFP is where the faithful go online to Birch it up.

97 Vambo  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:30:26pm

re: #92 albusteve

your optimism is astounding…but this post repeats the same old talking points, and Ill say again, the market is only one small and really, least significant indicator...life in America is all about small business and they are getting killed with no end in sight…BOs spending combined with his overall negative perception has dragged us down…people don’t like him or trust him…that’s why we have this TP phenomenon…the donks have seriously misfired

psst… health care reform would really help with that.

98 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:30:37pm

re: #95 Vambo

can I nominate this for comment of the night? do we do that here?

You can consider it comment of the night if it has the highest karma score. So if you like it, put a ding on it.

99 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:31:58pm

re: #97 Vambo

psst… health care reform would really help with that.

probably…seen any decent legislation in the last year?…anyway small business will try to carry on regardless

100 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:32:06pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

You can consider it comment of the night if it has the highest karma score. So if you like it, put a ding on it.

populist!

101 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:34:44pm

re: #74 freetoken

More from Saturday’s schedule:

And on the “best” list there appears to be a very disproportionate interest in the South (versus other areas of the US.)

Catch ‘em being good, now: they also had Up From Slavery and The Autobiography of Malcolm X on their list of best books. From the latter:

I have often reflected upon the new vistas that reading opened
to me. I knew right there in prison that reading had changed forever
the course of my life. As I see it today, the ability to read awoke
inside me some long dormant craving to be mentally alive. I certainly
wasn’t seeking any degree, the way a college confers a status symbol
upon its students. My homemade education gave me, with every
additional book that I read, a little bit more sensitivity to the
deafness, dumbness and blindness that was afflicting the black race in
America. Not long ago, an English writer telephoned me from London,
asking questions. One was, “What’s your alma mater?” I told him,
“Books.” You will never catch me with a free fifteen minutes in which
I’m not studying something I feel might be able to help the black
man….

102 Vambo  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:36:10pm

re: #99 albusteve

probably…seen any decent legislation in the last year?…anyway small business will try to carry on regardless

yeah, I saw some great proposals such as a ban on pre-existing conditions that were unanimously rejected by Repubs. A lot of people can only get employment through a corporate or union job, thus chaining them to full time work somewhere they may not like when they could be starting their own business and living the American dream. Stuff like this that affects the economy in ways that aren’t immediately apparent, but all anyone cares about is the socialism boogeyman.

103 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:38:26pm

re: #99 albusteve

probably…seen any decent legislation in the last year?…anyway small business will try to carry on regardless

Christie has some idea worth looking at…

104 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:39:43pm

re: #102 Vambo

Booga booga! I socialize your ass, mofo. That mean it belong to me. Govmint gonna tell you when to take a dump and how to wipe!

Oh, wait, that would be Sheryl Crow…

105 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:40:59pm

re: #104 Cato the Elder

Booga booga! I socialize your ass, mofo. That mean it belong to me. Govmint gonna tell you when to take a dump and how to wipe!

Oh, wait, that would be Sheryl Crow…

/and if she runs for anything I will pick up a musket!

106 mich-again  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:42:26pm

re: #97 Vambo

psst… health care reform would really help with that.

How? I can see the part about how health care reform would provide some relief for the businesses that include health care as part of the compensation for their employees, but the money to pay for it has to come from somewhere, likely as tax increases that will reduce disposable income. Its not like the money to pay for health care for millions of uninsured is going to drop from the sky. And further, adding millions more people into the health care system may be the right thing to do, but typically, when demand increases for a product with a constant supply, prices increase. I haven’t seen much in the way of increasing the amount of health care service providers as part of health care reform, just more customers for the services. Now if the plan is to impose price controls to keep the costs down, that will just bring shortages, just like price controls always do.

Any plan to provide health care to more people has to include plans to significantly increase the supply for the services or it can’t work.

107 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:42:36pm

re: #105 brookly red

/and if she runs for anything I will pick up a musket!

Ditto.

108 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:44:11pm

re: #106 mich-again

We’re already paying for socialized health care. We’re just paying a lot too much.

109 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:44:31pm

re: #107 Dark_Falcon

Ditto.

so if Mellencamp runs for senate do you think Frankin will want an autograph ?

110 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:45:45pm

re: #108 Obdicut

We’re already paying for socialized health care. We’re just paying a lot too much.

Then why am I not receiving it? Oh, stupid me, I am a citizen… never mind.

111 mich-again  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:48:42pm

re: #102 Vambo

Stuff like this that affects the economy in ways that aren’t immediately apparent, but all anyone cares about is the socialism boogeyman.

The ironic thing about that argument is that health insurance is essentially a form of socialism anyway. Healthy people who don’t need medical care pay a regular premium to help cover the costs for the services the sick people in the program need. Most of the ones opposed to the health care plan because it is socialism are already enrolled in one of the existing programs.

112 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:48:50pm

re: #109 brookly red

so if Mellencamp runs for senate do you think Frankin will want an autograph ?

Who’s Franklin?

113 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:49:15pm

re: #110 brookly red

I have no idea what that ‘citizen’ part meant.

Go get your hand broken (obviously not really), go down to the local hospital emergency room, say you don’t have insurance, and get your hand treated. Ignore the bills.

The hospital is probably receiving tax dollars, which will defray the cost somewhat, but they’re already also charging insurance companies slightly more than what they would otherwise because they have to cover these uninsured costs.

So the people who will wind up paying for your broken hand are taxpayers who have insurance.

The people who are angriest about health insurance reform are the people upon who’s backs the current system rests. It’s something I don’t really understand.

114 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:49:15pm

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

Who’s Franklin?

frankin my bad…

115 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:49:43pm

re: #114 brookly red

Third time’s the charm.

116 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:49:53pm

re: #106 mich-again

Mich—I owe you some links re: lifecycle energy costs of producing a car vs gas consumption. The first of these is best, and shows our differences probably arise from the scope of Cradle-to-Grave concepts. Vintage cars come out way green.

[Link: cascadiascorecard.typepad.com…]
[Link: www.worldchanging.com…]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

117 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:51:49pm

re: #111 mich-again

The ironic thing about that argument is that health insurance is essentially a form of socialism anyway. Healthy people who don’t need medical care pay a regular premium to help cover the costs for the services the sick people in the program need. Most of the ones opposed to the health care plan because it is socialism are already enrolled in one of the existing programs.

Well we’re making some progress here. So if insurance is a form of socialism (spreading the risk, …) then socialism must be a form of insurance (spreading the risk, …). We’ll make a liberal out of you yet.

118 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:52:01pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Third time’s the charm.

but wait I did say it the first tim… never mind, I will just wait.

119 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:52:25pm

re: #114 brookly red

frankin my bad…

You mean that asshole who played Stuart Smally on SNL? Yes, he might want an auto graph.

120 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:52:34pm

re: #117 Olsonist

I don’t agree that socialism is a ‘liberal’ position.

I also don’t agree that insurance is a form of socialism.

I don’t agree with much, apparently.

121 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:54:12pm

re: #117 Olsonist

Well we’re making some progress here. So if insurance is a form of socialism (spreading the risk, …) then socialism must be a form of insurance (spreading the risk, …). We’ll make a liberal out of you yet.

/are you with the teachers union?

122 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:54:52pm

Cato the Elder, I left you some book links downstairs.
I think you will enjoy them!
Have you read “sense & sensibilities & seamonsters”?
It was fun.
I’m saving “pride & prejudice & zombies” for my next trip.
Can’t beat having a book while travelling!

123 mich-again  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:57:24pm

re: #108 Obdicut

We’re already paying for socialized health care. We’re just paying a lot too much.

True, but I’m not sure if the costs are so high because there isn’t enough Government involvement or because there is already too much involvement and regulations that stifle growth in the amount of suppliers. I can see 100 ways a coherent medical system could streamline and reduce costs, but I am unconvinced that Washington can do more good than harm when they start tinkering.

124 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 7:58:04pm

re: #120 Obdicut

I don’t agree that socialism is a ‘liberal’ position.

I also don’t agree that insurance is a form of socialism.

I don’t agree with much, apparently.

you and me both…

125 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:00:09pm

re: #120 Obdicut

I don’t agree that socialism is a ‘liberal’ position.


Socialism has many definitions, but I prefer the socialism light.

Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization advocating either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.

I also don’t agree that insurance is a form of socialism.


Insurance spreads risk over a group. We’ll agree on that. How you provide that insurance is up to you. For what it’s worth, Blue Cross refers to their policy holders as members. So does AAA. Whether you have a Grangers Hall or a Group Medical Plan or MediCal is a difference in degree but not in kind.

126 mich-again  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:01:08pm

re: #117 Olsonist

We’ll make a liberal out of you yet.

Ha. I am a bleeding heart liberal. Just ask any of my conservative friends.

127 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:01:58pm

re: #126 mich-again

Oops. I am sorry for the misidentification. My bad.

128 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:02:29pm

re: #123 mich-again

Washington isn’t an entity, though. Health insurance reform, even if it is deregulation, has to pass through congress. Even if you think that what we need is more privatization and less regulation— and god, no, we don’t— that’s something “Washington” has to touch.

The government manages a lot of very large scale things pretty damn well. It’s hard to compare them to any actual private enterprise, because the government tends to be larger and, in many ways, more transparent than private companies. We can examine Medicare’s fraud rate, for example, because they publish their audits and we can investigate them. We have no idea, none, what the fraud rate is at private insurance companies.

The amount of regulation that would be necessary to make the health insurance companies actually provide health insurance in a sane, reasonable fashion would be so onerous— since the free market for health insurance rewards health insurance companies that have the fewest actually sick people as customers, among other reasons— that I don’t see any compelling reason to keep the companies private.

129 hickph  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:02:55pm

What the hell is George Will doing at this event of uber right-wingers? Were Bill Buckley still alive, he would adroitly admonish Will in classic Buckley-ese, then knock him in the back of the head to see if he could return Will to his senses. But based on Will’s recent actions, AGW hackery among them, I don’t know if it would work.

130 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:04:18pm

re: #125 Olsonist

I’m for single-payer or public option, by the way. My objection is only that I think socialism has gotten smushed around too much of a concept and I’m kind of sick of hearing it applied to random crap. I know you’re trying to redeem the word and show that many things that Americans like very well are, in some manner or another ‘socialist’, but I just think the semantics of it makes it weirder and more unclear when one does so.

Like that paragraph I just wrote, for example: good luck understanding that mess.

131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:04:25pm

re: #119 Dark_Falcon

You mean that asshole who played Stuart Smally on SNL? Yes, he might want an auto graph.

That’s Senator Asshole to you :D

132 brookly red  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:05:50pm

re: #128 Obdicut

Washington isn’t an entity, though. Health insurance reform, even if it is deregulation, has to pass through congress. Even if you think that what we need is more privatization and less regulation— and god, no, we don’t— that’s something “Washington” has to touch.

The government manages a lot of very large scale things pretty damn well. It’s hard to compare them to any actual private enterprise, because the government tends to be larger and, in many ways, more transparent than private companies. We can examine Medicare’s fraud rate, for example, because they publish their audits and we can investigate them. We have no idea, none, what the fraud rate is at private insurance companies.

The amount of regulation that would be necessary to make the health insurance companies actually provide health insurance in a sane, reasonable fashion would be so onerous— since the free market for health insurance rewards health insurance companies that have the fewest actually sick people as customers, among other reasons— that I don’t see any compelling reason to keep the companies private.

hmmmm, so perhaps what we need is less tinkering & more law enforcement? sounds good to me, first let’s lock up the fraud types & see how much we got left over…

133 Kruk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:06:49pm

re: #106 mich-again


Any plan to provide health care to more people has to include plans to significantly increase the supply for the services or it can’t work.

Why would it have to do that? After all, anyone who needs healthcare now in the US can already access it.

//

134 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:06:53pm

re: #130 Obdicut

I think the United States is a socialist country in denial. We socialize risk and privatize profit. Works OK. Could be worse. But it would be better if we fessed up.

135 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:08:12pm

re: #25 avanti

How the hell did the Bircher’s get mainstreamed ?

A black guy became president, all the sleeping Birchers woke up, panicked, stroked their confederate flags and redoubled their efforts? ;-)

136 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:08:12pm

re: #134 Olsonist

We’re a highly motivated, extremely social, sentimentally communal bunch of wild individualists.

That’s why we rule, and suck, but mostly rule.

137 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:08:49pm

re: #132 brookly red

hmmm, so perhaps what we need is less tinkering & more law enforcement? sounds good to me, first let’s lock up the fraud types & see how much we got left over…

Those fraud types are called insurance companies. :)

138 Kruk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:08:52pm

re: #128 Obdicut The amount of regulation that would be necessary to make the health insurance companies actually provide health insurance in a sane, reasonable fashion would be so onerous— since the free market for health insurance rewards health insurance companies that have the fewest actually sick people as customers, among other reasons— that I don’t see any compelling reason to keep the companies private.

You commie! Why do you hate America so????

139 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:10:01pm

re: #138 Kruk

America had sex with me, it was all awesome, but afterwards she suddenly dressed and ran out of my room crying, and I never saw her again.

Wait, no, that was some crazy chick in college.

/still feel obscurely guilty about that one.

140 Kruk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:10:15pm

re: #135 WindUpBird

A black guy became president, all the sleeping Birchers woke up, panicked, stroked their confederate flags and redoubled their efforts? ;-)

I was going to FTFY, but then I realised my version wasn’t fit for polite society, :)

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:10:39pm

re: #140 Kruk

I was going to FTFY, but then I realised my version wasn’t fit for polite society, :)

heeheeheehee ^_^

142 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:10:39pm

re: #135 WindUpBird

A black guy became president, all the sleeping Birchers woke up, panicked, stroked their confederate flags and redoubled their efforts? ;-)

and if that black president were Bill Cosby, he would probably be embraced by everyone including the fringe right…jus sayin…BO has a multitude of problems that do not sit well with people

143 mich-again  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:10:45pm

re: #116 Decatur Deb

I read those links and they do explain things a little better. And its a good point made in the first link about the total energy cost of hybrids versus conventional cars. Anyone who thinks the Prius is a savior for the environment needs to look at some pictures of the environmental disaster barren “moonscape” around the nickel mines near Sudbury Ontario where the nickel for the Prius batteries comes from. True, the Prius is not the only destination for the nickel mined there. But to listen to the hype you’d think the batteries were grown from seeds on a hydroponic farm.

144 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:11:23pm

re: #136 Obdicut

While that is mostly true it has only been in the last 20 years that we’ve learned how to cook worth a damn.

145 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:11:52pm

re: #142 albusteve

and if that black president were Bill Cosby, he would probably be embraced by everyone including the fringe right…jus sayin…BO has a multitude of problems that do not sit well with people

You are higher than Willie Nelson if you believe for a moment that that’s true. :)

…or maybe just in denial about racism, but I’ll be charitable.

146 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:12:00pm

re: #132 brookly red

More law enforcement? It costs money to arrest people and put them in jail, too. And they get free health care there. So I’m not sure what you mean.

147 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:12:02pm

re: #129 hickph

What the hell is George Will doing at this event of uber right-wingers? Were Bill Buckley still alive, he would adroitly admonish Will in classic Buckley-ese, then knock him in the back of the head to see if he could return Will to his senses. But based on Will’s recent actions, AGW hackery among them, I don’t know if it would work.

William F. Buckley acted as a brake on a number of conservatives, keeping them from going of the rails into teh crazy. When he died, they were freed from sane restraint and promptly went wild.

148 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:12:15pm

re: #144 Olsonist

You are so damn right.

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:12:27pm

re: #144 Olsonist

While that is mostly true it has only been in the last 20 years that we’ve learned how to cook worth a damn.

You mean you don’t boil roasts? :D

150 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:14:17pm

re: #146 Obdicut

More law enforcement? It costs money to arrest people and put them in jail, too. And they get free health care there. So I’m not sure what you mean.

That socialized law enforcement! It’d be so much more fun if we just gave the reins to OCP and their miraculous walking robots. :D

151 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:14:26pm
152 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:14:49pm

re: #143 mich-again

Some of my ‘green’ friends castigated me for using disposable paper cups, telling me I ought to use something ‘reusable’ like the trendy stainless-steel mugs they had.

I tried to walk them through the energy expenditure for stainless steel creation, shaping, and cleaning while you have it versus using recycleable paper cups, but they aren’t the best listeners. They can’t think about the whole lifecycle. To them, the cup exists now, so that’s all that matters.

Ugh.

153 doubter4444  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:16:32pm

re: #19 ulmsey123

Embrace big government. Denounce the Constitution. Whatever. I won’t.
It’s so important to declare your position. It’s so important to associate with a specific crowd. Why?
Jerks grow like mushrooms. Why define yourself around them?
We are all individuals with individual thoughts and dreams.
Don’t run with the pack of wolves.

“We the People…”
Doesn’t that mean something to you?

Is it funny?

What the hell does that mean?
Are you some sort of new beat poet or something?

Honestly, one of the least coherent posts I’ve seen in a log time.
It made me log in and post while the kids are fighting… damn you.

154 hickph  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:17:09pm

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

Conservatives Gone Wild. Sounds like a great idea for Joe Francis to pursue.

155 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:18:44pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Some of my ‘green’ friends castigated me for using disposable paper cups, telling me I ought to use something ‘reusable’ like the trendy stainless-steel mugs they had.

I tried to walk them through the energy expenditure for stainless steel creation, shaping, and cleaning while you have it versus using recycleable paper cups, but they aren’t the best listeners. They can’t think about the whole lifecycle. To them, the cup exists now, so that’s all that matters.

Ugh.

They sound like posers: just following the trends like any good fashionista. Whether the trend is actually a good idea is of far less importance than being seen as fashionable. Well, at least stainless steel can be made domestically (though such cups are often made in China, which defeats the purpose given the carbon intensive methods of production).

156 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:19:10pm

re: #145 WindUpBird

You are higher than Willie Nelson if you believe for a moment that that’s true. :)

…or maybe just in denial about racism, but I’ll be charitable.

you sound more narrow minded than me, to be charitable

157 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:20:27pm

re: #154 hickph

Conservatives Gone Wild. Sounds like a great idea for Joe Francis to pursue.

Ugh. Brain-bleach at the tough of Ann Coulter lifting her shirt for the camera.

158 mich-again  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:21:03pm

re: #128 Obdicut

The amount of regulation that would be necessary to make the health insurance companies actually provide health insurance in a sane, reasonable fashion would be so onerous— since the free market for health insurance rewards health insurance companies that have the fewest actually sick people as customers, among other reasons— that I don’t see any compelling reason to keep the companies private.

The health insurance industry is not a free market. I have much respect for the doctors and nurses who do the hard work, but it is a total clusterfuck of a system administrative-wise.

159 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:21:05pm

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

They just want simple answers. “Is this good for the environment?”

“Well, let me get out the graphs…” is not what they want to hear.

Hell, I actually just reuse one paper cup all week. They’re awesome cups, bamboo or something.

160 Kruk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:21:22pm

re: #146 Obdicut

More law enforcement? It costs money to arrest people and put them in jail, too. And they get free health care there. So I’m not sure what you mean.

People who get Government run universal healthcare in the United States:
1) Military veterans (who’ve paid their dues through service)
2) Senior citizens (who’ve paid taxes all their lives)
3) Members of Congress (who, all cheap shots aside, have been lawfully elected to the highest offices in the land)

and 4) convicted felons guilty of some of the worst crimes.

Whether you think Government run healthcare is good or bad, that’s one screwed up mix.

161 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:21:24pm

re: #157 Dark_Falcon

Ugh. Brain-bleach at the tough of Ann Coulter lifting her shirt for the camera.

you’d do Pam, you know you would

162 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:21:29pm

re: #143 mich-again

I read those links and they do explain things a little better. And its a good point made in the first link about the total energy cost of hybrids versus conventional cars. Anyone who thinks the Prius is a savior for the environment needs to look at some pictures of the environmental disaster barren “moonscape” around the nickel mines near Sudbury Ontario where the nickel for the Prius batteries comes from. True, the Prius is not the only destination for the nickel mined there. But to listen to the hype you’d think the batteries were grown from seeds on a hydroponic farm.

The problem is people demand more safe cars. Safer cars means heavier cars. Crumple zones. door reinforcement. Air bags. (my GTI has 8 air bags) Do what Colin said: add lightness. That’s your real fuel economy.

If you want a fuel efficient car, you don’t get a Prius, you get an old CRX HF. Or you modify a Geo Metro like this guy: [Link: www.jeremiahsviolins.com…]

Now if only we could do something about 6000 pound single occupant vehicles driven by people who do not have the skills to drive such a car.

163 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:22:29pm

re: #156 albusteve

you sound more narrow minded than me, to be charitable

hahaha yeahright

164 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:22:40pm

re: #158 mich-again

Yes. And the actual health insurance companies themselves do not add anything of value into the system. They are administrators, bureaucrats, and that all. They will never innovate anything of value or come up with something that benefits the nation. They are only middlemen. Middlemen with huge PR budgets.

165 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:23:41pm

re: #159 Obdicut

They just want simple answers. “Is this good for the environment?”

“Well, let me get out the graphs…” is not what they want to hear.

Hell, I actually just reuse one paper cup all week. They’re awesome cups, bamboo or something.

I use both paper plates and cups most of the time…pretty harmless being nothing more than steamed formed vegetation of some sort…bright green of me

166 Kruk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:23:56pm

re: #150 WindUpBird

That socialized law enforcement! It’d be so much more fun if we just gave the reins to OCP and their miraculous walking robots. :D

Nah. All we need is guns. More guns. Bigger guns. On the street, where they belong.

167 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:24:53pm

re: #164 Obdicut

Yes. And the actual health insurance companies themselves do not add anything of value into the system. They are administrators, bureaucrats, and that all. They will never innovate anything of value or come up with something that benefits the nation. They are only middlemen. Middlemen with huge PR budgets.

Middlemen that create massive waste and ruin lives.

168 mich-again  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:24:59pm

re: #165 albusteve

I use both paper plates and cups most of the time…pretty harmless being nothing more than steamed formed vegetation of some sort…bright green of me

I must be really green because I drink right from the spigot. /

169 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:25:14pm

re: #164 Obdicut

They add nothing. I believe the economic term of art is rent seeking.

170 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:25:24pm

re: #163 WindUpBird

hahaha yeahright

why is my assumption more narrow minded than yours?…I have optimism and you are pessimistic…who doesn’t like Cosby?

171 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:26:16pm

re: #166 Kruk

Nah. All we need is guns. More guns. Bigger guns. On the street, where they belong.

Your new chief of police!

172 Kruk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:28:34pm

re: #156 albusteve

you sound more narrow minded than me, to be charitable

Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt, you know. If all criticism of BO was based on his policies, I would be willing to give the fringe the benefit of the doubt. Given the torrent of racial insults that have been directed at him though, I find it hard to believe that they would embrace a black man if he espoused policies they agreed with.

173 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:28:44pm

re: #168 mich-again

I must be really green because I drink right from the spigot. /

you must not be a herd animal then…some people want to drink from enormous stock tanks…gives them a sense of security…moooo moooo….sometime they’re called liberals

174 mich-again  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:28:58pm

re: #164 Obdicut

Yes. And the actual health insurance companies themselves do not add anything of value into the system.

Some amount of administrative work is required. But if you made a value stream map of how the whole system works, its probably 1% value, 99% waste. Gotta give them some credit.

And that is not to say the people don’t work hard in their jobs. Just that the work they do doesn’t provide much if any value to the customer.

175 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:29:45pm

re: #169 Olsonist

I had never discovered that term. A sincere thank you. That describes exactly the kind of economic behavior that is detrimental to a capitalist economy but, perversely, flourishes in a capitalist economy.

176 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:30:01pm

re: #166 Kruk

Lots of guns.

177 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:30:42pm

re: #170 albusteve

why is my assumption more narrow minded than yours?…I have optimism and you are pessimistic…who doesn’t like Cosby?

Uh, racists don’t like Bill Cosby. I’m not pessimistic, I am someone who understands that there is a great deal of racism in America. I know you want to deny that, so you can claim it’s simply Obama’s horrible terrible no good very bad ideas that make people call his wife a monkey, call him a N—-R on their placards and call for him to be exposed as a Kenyan, because there’s just no way a black guy can actually be the president and an American. But there is a lot of racism in America, and even the most mainstream black celebrity will run right up against it the instant he actually dares run for the presidency.

178 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:31:52pm

re: #175 Obdicut

The benefits of a mis-spent youth at the University of California at Berkeley. How I love that place.

179 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:32:26pm

re: #172 Kruk

Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt, you know. If all criticism of BO was based on his policies, I would be willing to give the fringe the benefit of the doubt. Given the torrent of racial insults that have been directed at him though, I find it hard to believe that they would embrace a black man if he espoused policies they agreed with.

maybe…there will be endless debate over that subject, but it seems that the radical right is certainly flexing it’s racist muscle at this point…but I’m not sure they speak for the entire GOP and for sure not all conservatives…they have a groovy thing going, gulping up all sorts of real estate…time will tell

180 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:32:48pm

re: #174 mich-again

I am too tired to say anything interesting, but I agree with what you said completely. I just kinda meant that unlike other private enterprise, where profits are used to innovate in a way beneficial to both customer and business, health insurance companies and other middle-man (or rent-seeking, thank you Olsonist) companies innovate more ways to screw those at both ends of the transaction, so that they themselves can profit in the middle.

181 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:35:33pm

re: #180 Obdicut

Imagine if over time, yera by year, cars became worse, made less ergonomic sense, broke down more often, became more expensive, with increasingly shorter warranties, and more dangerous.

Now imagine you were forced to buy a new one every two years no matter what. :D

182 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:35:36pm

re: #161 albusteve

you’d do Pam, you know you would

I’d rather blow my foot off with a shotgun.

183 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:35:36pm

re: #177 WindUpBird

Uh, racists don’t like Bill Cosby. I’m not pessimistic, I am someone who understands that there is a great deal of racism in America. I know you want to deny that, so you can claim it’s simply Obama’s horrible terrible no good very bad ideas that make people call his wife a monkey, call him a N—-R on their placards and call for him to be exposed as a Kenyan, because there’s just no way a black guy can actually be the president and an American. But there is a lot of racism in America, and even the most mainstream black celebrity will run right up against it the instant he actually dares run for the presidency.

where have I denied racism in America, the entire foundation for this post?…you make things up to fit your rants…because I think/hope that the far right would embrace Cosby you extrapolate I deny racism?….hahaha!…good one

184 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:36:17pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

I’d rather blow my foot off with a shotgun.

whoa…that’s hardcore

185 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:36:43pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

I’d rather blow my foot off with a shotgun.

That voice of hers! She sounded like she did two lines of coke and ate magic mushrooms before she was on that radio show I heard her on. Rusty Humphries hanging on her every word like a lovelorn 8th grader with a crush on the librarian.

186 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:37:25pm

And with that, guys, since I’m tired and my fiancee is down at CalTech, I’m off to watch Survivorman and play the very excellent game “The Unreal World”, which I highly, highly recommend despite the 1990 graphics and the slightly-difficult interface.

It’s one of those games that’s so much better than it seems.

[Link: www.jmp.fi…]

187 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:39:28pm

re: #183 albusteve

where have I denied racism in America, the entire foundation for this post?…you make things up to fit your rants…because I think/hope that the far right would embrace Cosby you extrapolate I deny racism?…hahaha!…good one

You’re claiming that a black guy like Bill Cosby, if he ran for president, would not trigger racism, that the fringe right would embrace him.

If you believe that is true, then you are denying racism in America. Yes. That is precisely what you are doing. You’re dismissing it as some silly little thing that’s insignificant.

188 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:40:35pm

re: #186 Obdicut

Indie gaming forever! I gotta give that a try.

189 Kruk  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:41:25pm

re: #183 albusteve

where have I denied racism in America, the entire foundation for this post?…you make things up to fit your rants…because I think/hope that the far right would embrace Cosby you extrapolate I deny racism?…hahaha!…good one

Racism is the assignment of negative characteristics to, fear of or hatred towards others based on their race. So if you think those who hold such views about blacks (and there is no shortage of those on the far right) would embrace a black man in the most powerfull job in the world, yes, you are in denial.

190 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:46:12pm

re: #187 WindUpBird

You’re claiming that a black guy like Bill Cosby, if he ran for president, would not trigger racism, that the fringe right would embrace him.

If you believe that is true, then you are denying racism in America. Yes. That is precisely what you are doing. You’re dismissing it as some silly little thing that’s insignificant.

no…wrong, racism is inherent in our culture and I don’t deny that and it does not need to be triggered…you assume more than what my posts infer…you can make up whatever you want to suit yourself…but it will not prove I deny racism, that’s simple folly on your behalf…Cosby himself, even embraced by the far right will not eliminate racism, nor did I claim it would

191 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:48:18pm

Whats wrong Charles?

Didn’t the J.B.S. tell you about their new theme song and slogan?

This is the new multi-cultural and politically correct J.B.S. err…right?

192 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:49:48pm

re: #189 Kruk

Racism is the assignment of negative characteristics to, fear of or hatred towards others based on their race. So if you think those who hold such views about blacks (and there is no shortage of those on the far right) would embrace a black man in the most powerfull job in the world, yes, you are in denial.

so what if they did?…your presumptions would be shot to hell…anyway I did not say that Cosby would cause racism to go away…wtf?…the far right is not all about racism, it’s one aspect of it

193 wiffersnapper  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:49:52pm

Will be interesting see what Mitt says.

194 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:51:25pm

re: #184 albusteve

whoa…that’s hardcore

I wouldn’t actually have to worry about it. Her personality is so nasty that I couldn’t get an erection from her if I wanted to. I’m not keen to let someone that vicious get close to me. I’d worry about where she’d stick the knife.

195 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:55:44pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

I wouldn’t actually have to worry about it. Her personality is so nasty that I couldn’t get an erection from her if I wanted to. I’m not keen to let someone that vicious get close to me. I’d worry about where she’d stick the knife.

heh…I believe you…looks aren’t everything

196 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 8:59:15pm

re: #192 albusteve

so what if they did?…your presumptions would be shot to hell…anyway I did not say that Cosby would cause racism to go away…wtf?…the far right is not all about racism, it’s one aspect of it

Actually you kinda did.

re: #142 albusteve

and if that black president were Bill Cosby, he would probably be embraced by everyone including the fringe right…jus sayin…BO has a multitude of problems that do not sit well with people

So we’re pretty sure the fringe right is a bunch of racists. And you’re saying that substituting BC for BO makes everything hunky dory. So you’re saying having BC stand in for BO makes the inherent racism of the fringe right disappear, presto change-o. Denialism. Not as bad as overt racism but still a problem you should look into.

197 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:13:19pm

re: #196 Olsonist

Obama has not done any commercials for pudding pops as of yet, that is why certain whites feel they cannot trust him…

///sigh…

198 albusteve  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:17:06pm

re: #196 Olsonist

So we’re pretty sure the fringe right is a bunch of racists. And you’re saying that substituting BC for BO makes everything hunky dory. So you’re saying having BC stand in for BO makes the inherent racism of the fringe right disappear, presto change-o. Denialism. Not as bad as overt racism but still a problem you should look into.

I should have said some, or most, or a few or whatever…nuanced it so you would get the picture…”so you are saying” does not inspire me to continue this stupid dialog…decide whatever you want, it makes me no difference, does it?

199 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:17:35pm

re: #197 ausador

True dat but Bill Cosby had a son shot to death on an LA freeway by some white guy. It’s just amazing that he can trust white people at all. There’s a lot we can learn from Bill Cosby and there’s a lot we can learn from Barack Obama.

200 Vambo  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:39:12pm

re: #142 albusteve

and if that black president were Bill Cosby, he would probably be embraced by everyone including the fringe right…jus sayin…BO has a multitude of problems that do not sit well with people

what the hell!!

BILL COSBY has a multitude of problems that do not sit well with people!

201 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:40:06pm

re: #44 keloyd

My first reaction to the JBS booth: how progressive of them.

202 Vambo  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:45:30pm

...

203 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:46:41pm

re: #19 ulmsey123

Embrace big government. Denounce the Constitution. Whatever. I won’t.
It’s so important to declare your position. It’s so important to associate with a specific crowd. Why?
Jerks grow like mushrooms. Why define yourself around them?
We are all individuals with individual thoughts and dreams.
Don’t run with the pack of wolves.

“We the People…”
Doesn’t that mean something to you?

Is it funny?

No what’s funny is how broad a brush you’re trying to paint with. Though you must be able to get your arms really toned lifting something so heavy.

204 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:48:40pm

re: #31 wee fury

It is embracing everyone and everything.

Maybe they can open up a booth for the people who would like to start the fourth Reich in America then….

Some groups and some people should be given this kind of a spotlight….

205 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:50:49pm

re: #32 karmic_inquisitor

Yes - the claim that “it is for the children” gets trotted out all the time.

Interesting thing about JBS - they absolutely hate the UN. But if there is anything the UN deserves props for it is advancing children’s issues globally. Be it vaccinations, hunger, child slavery, the UN usually is on the right side (abuse of children by UN peace keeping troops notwithstanding) .

Another thing - notice those children have white shiny teeth? Are they fluoridation victims?

Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure grain alcohol? …

206 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:54:27pm

re: #59 simoom

I wonder if anyone at Fox News Channel sees any journalistic ethics issues with cosponsoring the political event you’re covering?

[Link: www.24-7pressrelease.com…]

Didn’t they do that at the Tea Parties as well?

207 Claire  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 9:56:12pm

re: #199 Olsonist

True dat but Bill Cosby had a son shot to death on an LA freeway by some white guy. It’s just amazing that he can trust white people at all. There’s a lot we can learn from Bill Cosby and there’s a lot we can learn from Barack Obama.

Huh?

208 Olsonist  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 10:04:14pm

re: #207 Claire

If you wake up in the morning with a phone call telling you that your son has been shot to death it colors your perceptions forever. His wife was very bitter. Very bitter. No huh about it. Imagine what they went through. I give him tremendous credit.

209 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 17, 2010 10:19:11pm

re: #110 brookly red

Then why am I not receiving it? Oh, stupid me, I am a citizen… never mind.

You are receiving it, just go to an emergency room with your broken limb, its not like they can turn you away!


Of course if you need physical therapy you’re pretty much f***ed….

210 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:37:34am

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

So if you like it, put a ding on it.

I thought that was hilarious.

211 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 6:33:30am

They’re actually having Beck as the keynote? Is he going to cry for them? And the Birchers what a great way to show that you’re in the 21st century with the rest of us by having a group that’s long been shown to be batshit. Seriously though there are a lot of nutcases on that list like Bachmann, Beck, Paul, etc.


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