Live Video: CPAC 2010

Here’s the live video feed from CPAC 2010; Dick Cheney just took the stage to wild applause and blaring generic hard rock music.

[Live feed offline…]

Every politician who appears at this event is being tarred by participating in a conference co-sponsored by the John Birch Society — and note that even when the presence of the Birch Society was revealed by blogs and media, not a single one of these politicians canceled or even made a statement to distance themselves.

Right now, the top video at the John Birch Society website features — conspiracy nutbag Alex Jones (who is playing the right wing these days like a fiddle).

Jump to bottom

693 comments
1 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:57:00am

Good lord, that music is horrible.

2 albusteve  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:57:40am

guys knows his wah wah petal

3 pharmmajor  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:57:44am

Unbelievable displays like this are another reason I’m confident that come November, the people will wise up and vote in third-party members to kick out the Dems and Repubs.

4 albusteve  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:57:55am

pedal ?

5 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:58:02am

Find a brown face yet?

6 albusteve  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:59:01am

conservative women?…son of a bitches

7 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:59:29am

Hey, crazy finally got its own channel.

8 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 9:59:51am

re: #5 Stanley Sea

Find a brown face yet?

Some of the speakers are

Herman Cain
J.C. Watts

9 albusteve  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:00:26am

Dan Rather?….did I hear that right?

10 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:01:03am

re: #9 albusteve

Dan Rather?…did I hear that right?

I heard it too, who knew ??

11 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:01:14am

re: #8 sattv4u2

Some of the speakers are

Herman Cain
J.C. Watts

That’s how it seems to go. Only a couple of speakers, none in the paid audience.

12 thedopefishlives  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:01:31am

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hey, crazy finally got its own channel.

But enough about FOX News, back to the topic at hand.

13 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:01:35am

Excuse me?

Robert Bluey was “one of the first to expose the Rathergate memos?”

In which world was that?

14 thedopefishlives  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:02:24am

re: #13 Charles

Excuse me?

Robert Bluey was “one of the first to expose the Rathergate memos?”

In which world was that?

I could name about a dozen possibilities, only half of which are suitable for public consumption.

15 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:02:27am

re: #5 Stanley Sea

Find a brown face yet?

Maybe amongst the convention staff.

16 pharmmajor  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:02:49am

re: #13 Charles

Excuse me?

Robert Bluey was “one of the first to expose the Rathergate memos?”

In which world was that?

A world where Internet bloggers have no impact on society, apparently.

You got gypped, Charles.

17 albusteve  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:02:56am

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maybe amongst the convention staff.

heh…good one, really good

18 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:04:14am

re: #13 Charles

Excuse me?

Robert Bluey was “one of the first to expose the Rathergate memos?”

In which world was that?

It’s ok for the religious right to lie both through omission and commission now. Rubio just told a whopper :

“This is the only place in the world where you can open a small business in a spare bedroom in your home.”


right. There aren’t any business’ that operate out of bedrooms in India, Canada, Mexico, etc. etc. etc.

19 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:05:05am

re: #13 Charles

Excuse me?

Robert Bluey was “one of the first to expose the Rathergate memos?”

In which world was that?

Well, looks like the CPAC conservatives are rewriting LGF out of history now.

20 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:05:45am

OT

Citing a Justice Departement source, Fox News has confirmed the name of the Austin crash pilot as Joseph Andrew Stack (spelling uncertain).

21 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:06:06am

re: #19 avanti

Well, looks like the CPAC conservatives are rewriting LGF out of history now.

LGF: So irrelevant it needs scrubbing from history!
/;)

22 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:06:27am

O.T. Joesph Andrew Stack was the Austin pilot.

23 albusteve  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:06:27am

re: #19 avanti

Well, looks like the CPAC conservatives are rewriting LGF out of history now.

particularly scary imo…very very thin ice

24 albusteve  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:07:26am

we’ve got Fox new!

25 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:08:30am

re: #22 avanti

O.T. Joesph Andrew Stack was the Austin pilot.

KXAN reporting Joseph Stack, a software engineer, is the guy. He flew his small plane out of Georgetown this morning.

The wife and daughter were in the house when he set it on fire, had to be rescued.

One of those raving right-wing techno-rationislts probably.

26 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:08:39am

re: #13 Charles

It’s part of what I loathe about these people: they can’t admit anyone who doesn’t share their ideology ever did a lick of good in this world.

27 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:08:49am

Speaking of Faux News, their newsbabes have been relentlessly ignorant in their coverage of the Austin crash. One harped repeatedly on the plane not having a flight plan, implied strongly that such a filing could somehow have prevented the crash, and claiming (falsely) that a flight plan was not required because it was a single engine plane. Actually, of course, a flight plan is required only if you plan to fly IFR and the size and configuration of the aircraft has nothing to do with it.

28 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:09:01am
29 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:09:10am

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

KXAN reporting Joseph Stack, a software engineer, is the guy. He flew his small plane out of Georgetown this morning.

The wife and daughter were in the house when he set it on fire, had to be rescued.

One of those raving right-wing techno-rationislts probably.

Raving right-wing techno-rationalist. (PIMF)

30 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:09:13am

re: #18 Thanos

right. There aren’t any business’ that operate out of bedrooms in India, Canada, Mexico, etc. etc. etc.

Mines in the corner of my kitchen. Does that count?

31 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:09:33am

Wow, I thought I had no expectation of Erickson, but listening to this I was still disappointed.

32 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:10:44am

re: #26 Obdicut

It’s part of what I loathe about these people: they can’t admit anyone who doesn’t share their ideology ever did a lick of good in this world.

And they even go so far as to include some of us who have a conservative ideology that is similar to theirs in that their “no good” group.

Really strange.

33 Qabal  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:10:52am

Is all of CPAC going to be this boring?

34 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:11:20am

re: #32 reine.de.tout

And they even go so far as to include some of us who have a conservative ideology that is similar to theirs in that their “no good” group.

Really strange.

PIMF.
I’m from the south and all, but I really do not ever say “that there”.

35 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:12:19am

re: #28 MikeySDCA

Joseph Andrew Stack

The seven-story building is next to the headquarters of the FBI’s Austin Field Office.

36 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:13:35am

Birther J. D. Hayworth is giving a speech at 6 pm.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:15:00am

re: #18 Thanos

right. There aren’t any business’ that operate out of bedrooms in India, Canada, Mexico, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah, that’s just weird. People do that all the time, in many places around the world.

38 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:15:41am

re: #18 Thanos

right. There aren’t any business’ that operate out of bedrooms in India, Canada, Mexico, etc. etc. etc.

Those are bedrooms that are run out of small businesses. Get it straight. /

39 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:15:46am

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

In fact, I’d say it’s more common in places with crappy economies.

40 thedopefishlives  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:16:26am

re: #36 Charles

Birther J. D. Hayworth is giving a speech at 6 pm.

I’m just overflowing with anticipation. Can’t you tell.

41 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:16:34am

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, that’s just weird. People do that all the time, in many places around the world.

He’s trying to imply that upward mobility is easier in the US, which used to be true. It’s a last century pre-Bush statistic however. That’s no longer true as OECD reports indicate.

42 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:17:56am

Stack’s manifesto link… ??

43 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:18:10am

re: #34 reine.de.tout

PIMF.
I’m from the south and all, but I really do not ever say “that there”.


Naw? Git out o here!

44 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:18:46am

When did it become a rule that blogs have to be mouthpieces for one political party or the other?

45 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:18:56am

re: #35 Thanos

The seven-story building is next to the headquarters of the FBI’s Austin Field Office.

Didn’t he hit an IRS workplace?

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:19:13am

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

KXAN reporting Joseph Stack, a software engineer, is the guy. He flew his small plane out of Georgetown this morning.

The wife and daughter were in the house when he set it on fire, had to be rescued.

One of those raving right-wing techno-rationislts probably.


A small plane crashed into some houses on the Peninsula this morning. South of San Francisco.

Bad day for this sort of thing.

47 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:19:13am

Someone who actually notices that the average far right conservative is usually 60+

48 brandon13  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:19:21am

re: #28 MikeySDCA

Joseph Andrew Stack

embeddedart.com

Haven’t read all yet, but it appears real to me. Supposedly written by Stack on why he “had” to do this.

49 Buck  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:19:41am

re: #13 Charles

Excuse me?

Robert Bluey was “one of the first to expose the Rathergate memos?”

In which world was that?

Hey, it is in his Wikipedia stub…. en.wikipedia.org

It must be true.

/s

50 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:19:54am

re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn’t he hit an IRS workplace?

Dunno, I just pulled that quote out of the article, I’ve been on calls and haven’t been following the story

51 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:20:09am
52 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:20:41am

Charles, after I preview, my post button doesn’t work, but the bottom one does. Is that on my end? Same with top preview button.

53 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:20:58am

re: #44 Charles

When did it become a rule that blogs have to be mouthpieces for one political party or the other?

In the Bible, next to the part about Satan’s microchips.

54 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:21:21am

re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In the Bible, next to the part about Satan’s microchips.

AMD?

55 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:21:41am

I can post one comment, then all the buttons stop working and I need to reload the page.

56 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:21:44am

Dude, “freedom” to the younger generation includes gay rights. You may be in for a shock.

57 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:22:44am

And sometimes if I click a comment or button, I get kicked out to the home page.

58 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:22:52am

re: #52 Cannadian Club Akbar

Refresh the page?

59 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:22:55am

No problems here.

60 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:23:09am

re: #59 Charles

No problems here.

Ditto.

61 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:23:19am

I’m posting from the “spy” window. No problems. Except remembering that the preview window is below the typing box.

62 albusteve  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:23:34am

I’m good…everything is working properly

63 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:23:46am

#58. I did. Restarted as well. I hit quote button for this response and I got nothing as well.

64 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:23:50am

re: #41 Thanos

He’s trying to imply that upward mobility is easier in the US, which used to be true. It’s a last century pre-Bush statistic however. That’s no longer true as OECD reports indicate.

I understood what he was trying to imply but of course it’s still a stupid thing to say. Of course it’s nothing new. We get a lot of US media and cultural things up here and the ‘only in America’ line comes through a lot. No offense to anyone but mostly it’s just shake your head amusing because so much is just not true of course.

65 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:23:55am

re: #44 Charles

When did it become a rule that blogs have to be mouthpieces for one political party or the other?

Its posted next to the Vogon construction permit. You have had plenty of time to read it. /

66 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:23:58am

re: #58 Thanos

Refresh the page?

Works for one comment, then breaks again.

67 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:24:22am

re: #57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That’s the problem Mandy has on a regular basis.

I think she normally slaps the monitor sharply. Try that.

68 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:24:26am

Which browser? It could be an interaction with the Ustream video…

69 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:24:27am

re: #58 Thanos

Refresh the page?


Worked for me. IE explorer does that to me every once in a while.

70 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:24:44am

From the purported Stack manifisto:


“I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.”

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

71 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:24:49am

test. Nope. Gotta use bottom buttons.

72 jaunte  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:24:57am

re: #48 brandon13

[Link: embeddedart.com…]

Haven’t read all yet, but it appears real to me. Supposedly written by Stack on why he “had” to do this.

If that’s actually written by Stack…
What a complete abandonment of any personal responsibility.
Pure victimhood all the way.

73 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:25:26am

#68. I’m on IE.

74 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:26:02am

IE7, version 7.0.6001.18000

75 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:26:10am

re: #68 Charles

Firefox v3.6, no problems.

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:26:33am

re: #56 wrenchwench

Dude, “freedom” to the younger generation includes gay rights. You may be in for a shock.

“We want everyone to have freedom. We just want everyone to have freedom to live the way we do! We are staunchly self-reliant, except that we will be unable to function if we don’t like the love life of someone living across the street. And we want to be free of government interference, except for the Constitutional amendments we’re pushing, plus we’re willing to suspend almost any legal right on the theory that only terrorists, or people who might be terrorists anyway, will be inconvenienced.”

Admittedly, most people have a somewhat convoluted set of political ideas, but the more I try to articulate this group’s, the more confused I get.

77 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:26:41am

re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

IE7, version 7.0.6001.18000

IE, is so 2004.

78 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:26:42am

Big one:

Austin pilot’s insane manifesto?

The writer denounces the IRS and feds in general, and gives the dates of his life as 1956-2010, making this an apparent suicide note. The document is dated today.

79 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:27:00am
80 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:27:16am

Ah ha. IE.

81 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:27:37am

I’m getting bounced out now. IE version 8.0.6001.18702

82 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:27:37am

re: #78 Shiplord Kirel

Big one:

Austin pilot’s insane manifesto?

The writer denounces the IRS and feds in general, and gives the dates of his life as 1956-2010, making this an apparent suicide note. The document is dated today.

Just read it and it’s absolutely insane.

83 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:27:42am

Speaking of the religious right:

1000 Rabbis Warn: Open Homosexuality in the Military is a Disaster and May Cause Further Natural Disasters

christiannewswire.com

Rabbi Yehuda Levin, spokesman for the Rabbinical Alliance of America:

“When Americans are suffering economically and millions need jobs, it’s shocking that the Administration is focused on its ultra-liberal militantly homosexualist agenda forcing the highlighting of homosexuals and homosexuality on an unwilling military. This is the equivalent of the spiritual rape of our military to satisfy the most extreme and selfish cadre of President Obama’s kooky coalition.
We agree with Eileen Donnelly of the Center for Military Readiness that this will hurt the cohesiveness of the military, cause many to leave the army, and dramatically lower the number of recruits, perhaps leading to the reinstatement of a compulsory draft.

“Thirteen months before 9/11, on the day New York City passed homosexual domestic partnership regulations, I joined a group of Rabbis at a City Hall prayer service, pleading with G-d not to visit disaster on the city of N.Y. We have seen the underground earthquake, tsunami, Katrina, and now Haiti. All this is in sync with a two thousand year old teaching in the Talmud that the practice of homosexuality is a spiritual cause of earthquakes. Once a disaster is unleashed, innocents are also victims just like in Chernobyl.

“We plead with saner heads in Congress and the Pentagon to stop sodomization of our military and our society. Enough is enough.”

Video of this fucktard:

Youtube Video

84 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:27:45am

Got this from someone saying it was left by the Austin building crasher.

Suicide note?

85 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:27:46am

Test. On FF now.

86 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:28:11am

IE, mandated by company policy due to patch management contracts with the DoD, get over it.

87 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:28:22am

FF seems to work. IE is the problem.

88 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:28:25am

re: #42 avanti

Claims the IRS cost him tens of thousands of dollars; that an audit more recently hit him up for still more money, and then wanted to exact his own pound of flesh (or give his own pound of flesh). Sheesh.

89 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:28:34am

re: #84 cliffster

Got this from someone saying it was left by the Austin building crasher.

Suicide note?

Unconfirmed but it sure looks like it.

90 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:29:03am

re: #78 Shiplord Kirel

Strangely enough, he seems to have the same sort of beef Cordell had earlier…

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (synergistech.com) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (synergistech.com).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

91 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:29:12am

It’s probably a clash with the Ustream video, if you’re not seeing it on other pages.

92 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:29:14am

re: #78 Shiplord Kirel

Big one:

Austin pilot’s insane manifesto?

The writer denounces the IRS and feds in general, and gives the dates of his life as 1956-2010, making this an apparent suicide note. The document is dated today.

I was just getting ready to post that. Anti Tax Whackball

93 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:29:38am

re: #70 avanti

From the purported Stack manifisto:


“I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.”

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Oh boy.

94 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:29:43am

I sent 100 bucks to Charlie Crist

95 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:30:07am
96 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:30:50am

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

IE, mandated by company policy due to patch management contracts with the DoD, get over it.

Oddly, I recall government workers begging the a higher up for Firefox and hearing it’s a budget issue. When it was pointed out that it’s free, they said they’d look into it.

97 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:30:56am

re: #95 MandyManners

Dickhead didn’t realize that living well is the best revenge.

You mean killing yourself won’t show them “what’s for?”

98 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:30:59am

re: #42 avanti

Stack’s manifesto link… ??

Wow. Wow.

99 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:31:12am

#91; Seems to be the case. Posted in previous thread and everything worked fine.

100 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:31:13am

re: #95 MandyManners

He was fully consumed with the IRS taking his money that he wanted payback - so he destroyed his own family, possibly killed others, and attempted a mass casualty attack.

101 zora  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:31:13am

It’s probably a clash with the Ustream video, if you’re not seeing it on other pages.

I think it is. My reply nor quote button will work.

102 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:31:55am
103 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:32:22am

I prefer IE when on LGF, but I think I’ll get over it. Or will I?

104 zora  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:32:51am

You mean killing yourself won’t show them “what’s for?”

and the asshole set the house on fire with his wife and child inside. that’ll stick it to the irs.
//

105 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:32:55am

re: #102 MandyManners

I suppose flying a plane into a building stops the insanity.

It’s the start of the revolution./

106 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:32:59am

re: #103 cannadian club akbar

forgot this…///

107 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:33:32am
108 badger1970  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:33:44am

Stack ironically blamed Bush (among others).

109 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:34:17am

re: #100 lawhawk

Big Business, Arther Anderson, and Congress.. They were all out to get him:

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer… and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

110 Buck  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:34:31am

Using Chrome here, working great.

111 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:34:32am

re: #96 avanti

Oddly, I recall government workers begging the a higher up for Firefox and hearing it’s a budget issue. When it was pointed out that it’s free, they said they’d look into it.

Here, its considered a security issue since its not covered by contract to receive regular patch management thru approved internal procedures. Its considered unauthorized software.

112 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:34:32am

re: #108 badger1970

Stack ironically blamed Bush (among others).

Is he part of the new administration?
/

113 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:34:32am

re: #67 Obdicut

That’s the problem Mandy has on a regular basis.

I think she normally slaps the monitor sharply. Try that.

Or, shoot the computer.

114 thedopefishlives  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:35:11am

re: #113 reine.de.tout

Or, shoot the computer.

Kick It. It’s my usual advice to anyone who is having computer issues.

115 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:35:15am

re: #108 badger1970

Stack ironically blamed Bush (among others).

Now we’ll see both sides blame the other for the insanity.

116 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:35:26am

Joe Stack apparently was a keyboardist in this band - appropriately named Last Straw, and the album named Over the Edge.

117 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:35:35am
118 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:36:20am

re: #112 cannadian club akbar

Is he part of the new administration?
/

Scapegoat in Chief.

119 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:36:57am

re: #118 DaddyG

Scapegoat in Chief.

Haven’t seen you in a while. Where ya been?

120 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:37:30am

re: #114 thedopefishlives

Kick It. It’s my usual advice to anyone who is having computer issues.


An approach made much safer with the advent of the smaller Personal Computer.

121 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:37:37am

re: #108 badger1970

Stack ironically blamed Bush (among others).

Why exactly is that ironic?

122 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:38:30am

re: #115 avanti

Now we’ll see both sides blame the other for the insanity.

Yep and there’s enough fodder in that letter for each ‘side’ to use as ‘proof’ that it’s eeevil liberalness/moonbatness or eeeevil consevativeness/wingnutness that caused it.

123 thedopefishlives  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:38:40am

re: #120 DaddyG

An approach made much safer with the advent of the smaller Personal Computer.

Of course, I also use it as a general-purpose catch-all advice. Truck not running well? Kick It. Washer or dryer on the fritz? Kick It. Neighbor being a PITA? Kick It.

Okay, so maybe that last one wouldn’t work out so well. But it might shut them up. ;)

124 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:39:03am

The pilot’s manifesto had some anti-Catholic stuff in there. Possibly more of a White supremacist/Christian Identity thing than a New world order nut. His anti-tax/anti-government stuff means that’s he’s also a possible Paulian who might have been attracted to the Tea Parties.

125 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:39:25am

re: #119 cannadian club akbar

Haven’t seen you in a while. Where ya been?

Updating a 300 page training document on top of my routine chores. Lot’s of ten minute lunches or no lunch at all. It is steady work so I can’t complain.

126 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:39:56am

re: #92 Thanos

I was just getting ready to post that. Anti Tax Whackball

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

Cordell, on a previous thread, assumed this guy must be a right-wing wacko.

He sounds like a generic wacko to me.

But if there’s any political leaning apparent in the above, it sure doesn’t look right-wing to me.

127 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:40:43am

re: #124 Killgore Trout

The pilot’s manifesto had some anti-Catholic stuff in there. Possibly more of a White supremacist/Christian Identity thing than a New world order nut. His anti-tax/anti-government stuff means that’s he’s also a possible Paulian who might have been attracted to the Tea Parties.

I’ll give that a 48 hour test, it’s way early to tell.

128 thedopefishlives  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:40:47am

re: #126 reine.de.tout

As has been noted here on LGF numerous times, insanity transcends political boundaries. Nutjobs to the left of me, kooks to the right, etc., etc.

129 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:40:50am
130 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:41:21am

re: #124 Killgore Trout

The pilot’s manifesto had some anti-Catholic stuff in there. Possibly more of a White supremacist/Christian Identity thing than a New world order nut. His anti-tax/anti-government stuff means that’s he’s also a possible Paulian who might have been attracted to the Tea Parties.

But he put a communist quote in it!!! And mentioned Bush! See proof. Pinko moonbat.

131 badger1970  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:41:46am

re: #121 cliffster

Everyone blames Bush for something (especially right-wing anti-tax nut jobs). And let’s not get into correct usage of English grammar, I was raised in WI.

132 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:42:00am

re: #124 Killgore Trout

The pilot’s manifesto had some anti-Catholic stuff in there. Possibly more of a White supremacist/Christian Identity thing than a New world order nut. His anti-tax/anti-government stuff means that’s he’s also a possible Paulian who might have been attracted to the Tea Parties.

Well, he’s got a lot of stuff in there.
anti-auto industry
anti-health insurance companies, letting people die and stealing from them.

Just a raving lunatic.

133 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:42:22am

re: #124 Killgore Trout

The pilot’s manifesto had some anti-Catholic stuff in there. Possibly more of a White supremacist/Christian Identity thing than a New world order nut. His anti-tax/anti-government stuff means that’s he’s also a possible Paulian who might have been attracted to the Tea Parties.

The infowars crowd is already thrilled….

google.com

134 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:42:49am

re: #126 reine.de.tout

It could be anything. His rants against the wealthy means that he might not be a Tea Party type. They seems to love the wealthy , want to give them tax breaks and have John Galt type hero fantasies about them. He might even be a LaRouche type whacko.

135 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:43:04am
136 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:43:25am

re: #129 MandyManners

Oh, brother.

Mandy, I’ll second that. It’s way to early to suggest all that baggage on Stack. He may be a leftie wacko, or a rightie wacky, or just a wacko.

137 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:43:32am

Everyone is going to see their favorite boogie man in the pilot. We will hear everything from - “Cheney’s hatred drove him to do it” to “Obama’s real birth certificate was on file in the Austin office building”.

The bottom line is he was nuts and selfish to an evil degree.

138 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:43:46am

re: #133 Thanos

DU and DKos are already throwing him in with the Tea Party crowd. No mention of Tea Party in there, but there are some common themes.

139 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:43:49am

re: #133 Thanos

The infowars crowd is already thrilled…

[Link: www.google.com…]

Ugh, I’m sure the Paulians and racists at Stormfront are crowing too.

140 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:44:18am

re: #134 Killgore Trout

It could be anything. His rants against the wealthy means that he might not be a Tea Party type. They seems to love the wealthy , want to give them tax breaks and have John Galt type hero fantasies about them. He might even be a LaRouche type whacko.

Instead of assuming a tea party connection for this guy, could we not just agree he appears to just generally have been stark raving mad?

141 darthstar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:44:31am

Who was the guy who looked like Al Pacino a minute ago?

142 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:44:32am

re: #132 reine.de.tout

Well, he’s got a lot of stuff in there.
anti-auto industry
anti-health insurance companies, letting people die and stealing from them.

Just a raving lunatic.

Yeah.
Sounds like he was an equal opportunity hater/blamer.
I guess we will know more once they talk to his wife…

143 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:45:03am

re: #124 Killgore Trout

The pilot’s manifesto had some anti-Catholic stuff in there. Possibly more of a White supremacist/Christian Identity thing than a New world order nut. His anti-tax/anti-government stuff means that’s he’s also a possible Paulian who might have been attracted to the Tea Parties.

C’mon, man. You always do this shit but please don’t do it here. The knee-jerk “he must be a Tea Partier” thing is really in poor taste

144 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:45:08am
145 jaunte  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:45:16am

re: #140 reine.de.tout

Instead of assuming a tea party connection for this guy, could we not just agree he appears to just generally have been stark raving mad?

He seems to fit the ‘victim triangle’ model pretty well:
lynneforrest.com

146 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:45:19am

re: #136 avanti

Mandy, I’ll second that. It’s way to early to suggest all that baggage on Stack. He may be a leftie wacko, or a rightie wacky, or just a wacko.

I’m going with wacko with a seething hatred of the IRS that goes back years.

Hatred of the IRS pretty much trumps any ideological bent especially if you think you’ve been roto-rooter’d by the IRS on multiple occasions (audits, etc.).

147 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:45:38am

Mitt Romney just took the stage.

The only non-creationist GOP politician at CPAC. (Maybe.)

148 insanity police  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:45:50am

Schlussel slams CPAC and “the self-promotion-fest of Scamela Geller and Robert Spencer”

The last line of the article was pretty shocking: “Gee, I wonder how much of Geller’s and her then-hubby’s car loan fraud business (using Muslim straw buyers and resulting in the successful murder of the one informant who was talking to police–a Black car salesman) is going to pay for this event.” I wasn’t aware of that scandale/controversy until today. Yikes.

149 Buck  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:45:53am

ok, that was funny.

150 thedopefishlives  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:46:18am

re: #147 Charles

Mitt Romney just took the stage.

The only non-creationist GOP politician at CPAC. (Maybe.)

Too bad he’s going to tarnish his reputation, possibly beyond repair, just by showing his face.

151 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:46:25am

re: #142 webevintage

Yeah.
Sounds like he was an equal opportunity hater/blamer.
I guess we will know more once they talk to his wife…

I was glad to see she got out with, I believe their child who was also at home when he set the place on fire.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

152 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:47:50am

Every politician who appears at this event is being tarred by participating in a conference co-sponsored by the John Birch Society — and even when this was revealed, not a single one of them canceled or even made a statement to distance themselves.

153 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:48:19am

And I intend to continually remind LGF readers of it.

154 badger1970  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:48:38am

re: #150 thedopefishlives

How so? It doesn’t seem to hurt other politicians reaching out to the fringes of their party.

155 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:48:55am

re: #126 reine.de.tout

Cordell, on a previous thread, assumed this guy must be a right-wing wacko.

He sounds like a generic wacko to me.

But if there’s any political leaning apparent in the above, it sure doesn’t look right-wing to me.

The anti-tax grievance sure sounds right-wing to me, although looking at the rest of his rant he may be more of an ‘independent’ nutter with Ron Paul tendencies.

156 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:48:58am

re: #140 reine.de.tout

Instead of assuming a tea party connection for this guy, could we not just agree he appears to just generally have been stark raving mad?

I think his insanity goes without saying. However, I see no need to avoid examining his writings and looking for clues as to his motive. Of course it’s too early to say for sure but I see no reason not to speculate and discuss.

157 thedopefishlives  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:49:07am

re: #154 badger1970

How so? It doesn’t seem to hurt other politicians reaching out to the fringes of their party.

See, for example:

re: #152 Charles

re: #153 Charles

158 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:49:19am
159 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:49:36am

Currently the top video featured at the Birch website: Alex Jones.

jbs.org

160 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:49:45am

re: #147 Charles

Mitt Romney just took the stage.

The only non-creationist GOP politician at CPAC. (Maybe.)

It isn’t something we Mormons are known for but this is one time I wish Romney had pulled out prematurely.

161 badger1970  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:49:53am

re: #154 badger1970

I respectively take back my stupid comment. Please flush and repeat.

162 darthstar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:50:09am

re: #152 Charles

Every politician who appears at this event is being tarred by participating in a conference co-sponsored by the John Birch Society — and even when this was revealed, not a single one of them canceled or even made a statement to distance themselves.

That’s because most Americans, if asked who John Birch was, would probably say they thought he played short-stop for the Padres, or forward for the Timberwolves, or maybe he’s just an environmentalist who loves trees. Ignorance isn’t just bliss, it’s a pre-requisite for supporting people like the ones you see at CPAC.

163 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:50:24am

re: #134 Killgore Trout

It could be anything. His rants against the wealthy means that he might not be a Tea Party type. They seems to love the wealthy , want to give them tax breaks and have John Galt type hero fantasies about them. He might even be a LaRouche type whacko.

He was all over the map, an all-purpose nutburger (well done by this time too).
This will make it easy for fanatics of every stripe to lay the blame at the doorstep of the opposition.

164 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:50:55am

From poking around the Birch Society website, it’s very clear that they are receiving major funding from somewhere.

165 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:50:59am

re: #155 Jimmah

The anti-tax grievance sure sounds right-wing to me, although looking at the rest of his rant he may be more of an ‘independent’ nutter with Ron Paul tendencies.

He was stark raving mad.

A crazy person; hated everything and everybody, looked to me.

166 Lidane  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:51:26am

re: #137 DaddyG

The bottom line is he was nuts and selfish to an evil degree.

Sounds about right to me. I don’t care if he’s liberal, conservative, Paulian, a teabagger, or what. Good people who were just going about their daily lives got their lives turned upside down today because of his actions, and that’s unforgivable.

Forget the damage to the building. That can be repaired. What this asshole has done to the people in that building and to his friends and family is just beyond the pale.

167 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:51:54am

re: #164 Charles

From poking around the Birch Society website, it’s very clear that they are receiving major funding from somewhere.

Is there a Soros type right winger?

168 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:52:05am

Any word on people hurt?

169 bosforus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:52:38am

Joseph Stack’s FAA registration for his Piper Cherokee PA-28. Not entirely interesting, but it’s something:
registry.faa.gov

170 Lidane  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:52:46am

re: #168 Jadespring

Any word on people hurt?

MSNBC is saying that two are hurt and one more is unaccounted for.

171 Buck  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:52:58am

And who does associating with Carter, Move On, George Soros, Michael Moore…. tar?

172 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:53:01am

re: #162 darthstar

That’s because most Americans, if asked who John Birch was, would probably say they thought he played short-stop for the Padres, or forward for the Timberwolves, or maybe he’s just an environmentalist who loves trees. Ignorance isn’t just bliss, it’s a pre-requisite for supporting people like the ones you see at CPAC.

I’m just waiting for them to roll out the John Wayne defence. “John Wayne was a Bircher y’know…”

173 jaunte  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:53:03am

re: #167 cannadian club akbar

Howard Ahmanson?

174 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:53:15am

re: #170 Lidane

MSNBC is saying that two are hurt and one more is unaccounted for.

Thanks

175 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:53:30am

re: #164 Charles

From poking around the Birch Society website, it’s very clear that they are receiving major funding from somewhere.

Koch Foundations
Patriarch Fred Koch was a founder of the JBS.

176 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:53:38am

re: #173 jaunte

Howard Ahmanson?

Don’t know who that is.

177 Buck  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:53:55am

The deal with the unions was a really horrible thing.

178 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:54:28am

re: #156 Killgore Trout

I think his insanity goes without saying. However, I see no need to avoid examining his writings and looking for clues as to his motive. Of course it’s too early to say for sure but I see no reason not to speculate and discuss.

If that “manifesto” is any guide, I suspect his writings will probably be so rambling and incoherent they’ll be incomprehensible.

179 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:54:35am

Gotta run to the CCA Ranch. BBL.

180 jaunte  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:54:54am

re: #176 cannadian club akbar

He’s a wealthy Reconstructionist.
nndb.com

181 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:55:09am

re: #165 reine.de.tout

He was stark raving mad.

A crazy person; hated everything and everybody, looked to me.

That describes many wingnuts.

182 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:55:10am

There were a lot of people who were Birchers, Communists and other 50 years ago that outgrew the movements. I see a big difference between a flirtation in the 50s and 60s vs. a full on engagement today.

183 badger1970  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:55:22am

re: #178 reine.de.tout

“Unibomber-esque”

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:56:02am

re: #136 avanti

Mandy, I’ll second that. It’s way to early to suggest all that baggage on Stack. He may be a leftie wacko, or a rightie wacky, or just a wacko.

He could even be a hybrid whacko.

185 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:56:14am

re: #171 Buck

And who does associating with Carter, Move On, George Soros, Michael Moore… tar?

and how do these folks compare to the JBS?

186 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:56:20am

Did Romney just say “indefagitable?”

187 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:56:48am

In his manifesto, Joseph Stack claims the IRS had destroyed him financially but we now know he owned the plane he rammed into the building, and his now-burned home was a nice two-story affair in an upscale neighborhood.

188 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:57:03am

re: #186 Charles

Did Romney just say “indefagitable?”

That word can actually be pronounced?

I never had any luck saying it out loud.

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:57:46am

re: #148 insanity police

Schlussel slams CPAC and “the self-promotion-fest of Scamela Geller and Robert Spencer”

The last line of the article was pretty shocking: “Gee, I wonder how much of Geller’s and her then-hubby’s car loan fraud business (using Muslim straw buyers and resulting in the successful murder of the one informant who was talking to police–a Black car salesman) is going to pay for this event.” I wasn’t aware of that scandale/controversy until today. Yikes.

Debbie Schlussel makes stuff up, and really hates other successful right-wing women. I am not a Pam Geller fan, but I also wouldn’t believe anything Debbie Schlussel said without serious investigation.

190 albusteve  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:57:46am

re: #153 Charles

And I intend to continually remind LGF readers of it.

I’m in….it’s baked, but I don’t have any personal disappointment…the GOP will cut your throat just as quick as anybody…it’s robbing conservatism and using it for their twisted ideas is what really pisses me off….conservatism is dead

191 Buck  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:57:55am

re: #185 webevintage

and how do these folks compare to the JBS?

My mother used to say “Shit is shit” The other side always thinks theirs doesn’t smell.

192 badger1970  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:57:55am

re: #187 Shiplord Kirel

He may have been about to go underwater. Having and owning aren’t the same thing.

193 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:58:05am

re: #188 reine.de.tout

That word can actually be pronounced?

I never had any luck saying it out loud.

OOPS.
just checked the spelling in Charles’ post.
Doesn’t matter, I can’t even say it the right way, much less the incorrect way.

194 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:58:32am

Yep, he said “indefagitable.”

195 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:58:51am

re: #186 Charles

Did Romney just say “indefagitable?”

I don’t know since I can’t force myself to listen any more since so far the whole speech has been about slamming the President.

196 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:58:57am

re: #191 Buck

My mother used to say “Shit is shit” The other side always thinks theirs doesn’t smell.

My dad use to say, if your going talk shit about someone, you better be prepared to back it up.

197 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:59:10am

re: #184 SanFranciscoZionist

He could even be a hybrid whacko.

Could well just be a misfit at every level.

198 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:59:12am

re: #194 Charles

Yep, he said “indefagitable.”

I’m still trying to say that, either that way OR the right way, and I can’t.

199 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:59:28am
200 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:59:37am

re: #162 darthstar

That’s because most Americans, if asked who John Birch was, would probably say they thought he played short-stop for the Padres, or forward for the Timberwolves, or maybe he’s just an environmentalist who loves trees. Ignorance isn’t just bliss, it’s a pre-requisite for supporting people like the ones you see at CPAC.

We only hail the hero from whom we got our name,
We’re not sure what he did, but he’s our hero all the same.

201 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:59:38am

*sigh* Anyone who sees the crazy murderous manifesto writing pilot as exhibiting characteristics of their political opponents (but not their own biases) says something about them that they may not want to see.

202 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 10:59:54am

re: #191 Buck

My mother used to say “Shit is shit” The other side always thinks theirs doesn’t smell.

OKaaaaay.
I was asking a real question.
Thanks for the bullshit answer.

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:00:00am

re: #164 Charles

From poking around the Birch Society website, it’s very clear that they are receiving major funding from somewhere.

Soros?
/

204 freetoken  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:00:05am

re: #195 webevintage

Remember, Romney was never the favorite for the far-Right. The only way he can connect with them is through their favorite pathology - hate.

205 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:01:02am

re: #202 webevintage

OKaaay.
I was asking a real question.
Thanks for the bullshit answer.

C’mon, you know Habitat For Humanity is a front for something nefarious. I’m just not going to tell you what it is.

206 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:01:10am

I know people here like Romney, but really, this speech is full of outright lies and deliberate misdirections. And not one policy proposal.

207 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:01:15am

re: #18 Thanos

When your audience’s travel experience is limited to time served in the Armed Forces, you can say that sort of thing and get away with it.

208 jaunte  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:01:52am

re: #201 DaddyG

Having read the thing, I’m pretty sure the manifesto can be summed up by saying “I can’t be happy, and it’s someone else’s fault.”

209 badger1970  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:01:57am

re: #204 freetoken

Weird he would bother with this hate-fest, since his religious beliefs have come under attack from both sides.

210 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:01:59am

re: #186 Charles

Did Romney just say “indefagitable?”

A dog whistle Horatio Hornblower reference if I’ve ever heard one. /

211 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:02:02am

re: #206 suchislife

It’s certainly bringing my days of not taking him seriously to a middle.

212 Buck  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:03:20am

re: #202 webevintage

OKaaay.
I was asking a real question.
Thanks for the bullshit answer.

I don’t think it was bullshit. I think I answered it plainly. Maybe you didn’t understand. I don’t think “degrees of hate” really matters. Carter is only 30% hateful, and JBS is 90%… So they are worse.

Birthers are 90% crazy, but MM, or Rosie ( the truthers) are only 80% crazy…

Shit is shit.

213 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:04:16am

re: #206 suchislife

I know people here like Romney, but really, this speech is full of outright lies and deliberate misdirections. And not one policy proposal.

That seems to be the way to go now days.
If you think the President is wrong then just tell the TRUTH about why he or the Dems are wrong with our making shit up.

214 Lidane  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:04:57am

re: #209 badger1970

Weird he would bother with this hate-fest, since his religious beliefs have come under attack from both sides.

Maybe he’s considering another presidential run in 2012.

215 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:05:29am

I can’ t upding without getting kicked to the front page. I’d give you an upding if I could. You know who you are… ;-)

216 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:05:31am

re: #213 webevintage

That seems to be the way to go now days.
If you think the President is wrong then just tell the TRUTH about why he or the Dems are wrong with our making shit up.

It’s easier to appeal to emotion.

217 Buck  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:05:37am

re: #213 webevintage

That seems to be the way to go now days.
If you think the President is wrong then just tell the TRUTH about why he or the Dems are wrong with our making shit up.

Speech isn’t over yet… but you have already decided it is all a lie.

218 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:05:43am

Weak applause for state-level health insurance coverage. And anything else he has to say about health care.

219 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:06:58am

Writing a book = running for office.

220 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:06:58am

re: #191 Buck

My mother used to say “Shit is shit” The other side always thinks theirs doesn’t smell.

That’s true whichever side you’re on, I find.

221 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:06:59am

re: #214 Lidane

Ya think?re: #214 Lidane

Maybe he’s considering another presidential run in 2012.

Ya think?

222 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:07:03am

re: #217 Buck

Speech isn’t over yet… but you have already decided it is all a lie.

Meh, why wait, shit is shit.

223 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:07:14am

re: #217 Buck

Speech isn’t over yet… but you have already decided it is all a lie.

Well, maybe he ends with: “Now all this was a great parody, right?” I mean seriously.

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:07:38am

re: #195 webevintage

I don’t know since I can’t force myself to listen any more since so far the whole speech has been about slamming the President.

My perception, and I could be wrong, is that they don’t like him much.

/

225 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:08:38am

Dinner time - BBL.

226 freetoken  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:08:39am

re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist

They have never really liked him.

227 Lidane  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:10:44am

re: #221 garhighway

Since I’m not watching Mitt’s speech I can’t comment on the specifics of it.

At the moment, my attention is more focused on the plane crash here in Austin, since that’s much closer to me than CPAC.

228 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:11:28am

liberal neo-monarchists will kill the spirit of this great nation that runs from coast to coast. that’s the liberal agenda.

229 Buck  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:11:52am

re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist

My perception, and I could be wrong, is that they don’t like him much.

/

Ya, that whole opposing viewpoint is just plain wrong…..

/

230 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:11:53am

re: #228 suchislife

I need to find a script of this.

231 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:12:12am

re: #228 suchislife

liberal neo-monarchists will kill the spirit of this great nation that runs from coast to coast. that’s the liberal agenda.

Who told you?!?!?!?! Dammit I thought our sekrit plans were safe.

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:12:24am

re: #199 Charles

CPAC Speaker Bashes Obama, in Racial Tones.

“A cross between Barney Frank and RuPaul”?

233 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:12:48am

re: #231 drcordell

Romney did, just now. Busted!

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:13:03am

re: #215 DaddyG

I can’ t upding without getting kicked to the front page. I’d give you an upding if I could. You know who you are… ;-)

Me too.

235 cenotaphium  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:13:11am

OT: Plane crashes into office building in Austin Texas.

Feb. 18: A small plane crashed into an office building in Austin, Texas.

Officials are investigating whether a small plane that crashed into an office building in Austin, Texas, Thursday morning was an intentional act, an NTSB official told Fox News.

An NTSB spokesman, however, told FoxNews.com that “we can’t confirm any of that.”

Authorities said they have identified the pilot as Joseph Andrew Stack, a 53-year-old software engineer who lived in Texas.

/snip

Possible note left by Joe Stack.

If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

/snip

236 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:13:49am

re: #199 Charles

CPAC Speaker Bashes Obama, in Racial Tones.

Is he speaking of Obama there?

From the article linked:

He then mocked what he described, with a Chris Rock voice, as “diversity,” including, he said, college classes on “cyber feminism” and “what it means to be a feminist new black man.”

Describing the latter, he said: “Think of a crossover between RuPaul and Barney Frank.”

237 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:14:08am

re: #231 drcordell

Who told you?!?!?!?! Dammit I thought our sekrit plans were safe.

and here we thought all ways going as according to plan…
Must confer with the “liberal neo-monarchists” cat overlords to see what our next move will be.

238 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:14:23am

Demon sheeps!

239 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:14:30am

re: #227 Lidane

Since I’m not watching Mitt’s speech I can’t comment on the specifics of it.

At the moment, my attention is more focused on the plane crash here in Austin, since that’s much closer to me than CPAC.

Wow. Two injuries (burns), and one person unaccounted for but no reason to think he/she was even there. Might turn out to be zero loss of life (except for the pilot - not sure if that thing qualifies as “life”). Sucks very much for the two with serious burns, but still good news.

240 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:14:59am

re: #237 webevintage

Doesn’t that conflict with the gay agenda a bit? I mean, after all, who gets to be Queen?
//

241 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:15:28am

What exactly is a ‘neo-liberal monarchnist’?

242 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:15:32am

re: #239 cliffster

Wow. Two injuries (burns), and one person unaccounted for but no reason to think he/she was even there. Might turn out to be zero loss of life (except for the pilot - not sure if that thing qualifies as “life”). Sucks very much for the two with serious burns, but still good news.

That’s incredible. From what I have seen the situation looked much worse.

243 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:15:42am

re: #237 webevintage

It wasn’t in the full text I found on free republic. Must have been a spontanous witticism.

244 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:16:26am

I didn’t imagine that, right? Did anyone else hear it?

245 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:16:33am

re: #233 suchislife

Romney did, just now. Busted!

That BASTARD!!!!
(he killedkenny our evil lib plans for this great nations spirit from sea to shining sea)

246 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:16:34am

re: #240 Obdicut

Doesn’t that conflict with the gay agenda a bit? I mean, after all, who gets to be Queen?
//

Faction-fighting. They can settle it after the revolution, but before lunch-time on coronation day.

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:17:12am

re: #241 Jadespring

What exactly is a ‘neo-liberal monarchnist’?

I have no clue, but I’m against it.

248 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:17:13am

re: #241 Jadespring

What exactly is a ‘neo-liberal monarchnist’?

Bleh ‘liberal neo-monarchist’ I mean.

249 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:17:22am

re: #241 Jadespring

What exactly is a ‘neo-liberal monarchnist’?

Prince Charles?

250 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:17:23am

re: #13 Charles

Excuse me?

Robert Bluey was “one of the first to expose the Rathergate memos?”

In which world was that?

There was actually a branch of Kremlinology in which they would determine who was out of favor with Stalin by examing pictures to see who had been airbrushed out.

I’ve seen one of those: Stalin and three other men. Then Stalin and two other men. Then Stalin and one other man. Finally…

251 jaunte  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:18:09am

re: #241 Jadespring

What exactly is a ‘neo-liberal monarchnist’?

The label doesn’t really matter. This is a repost from last night, but the linked essay provides some good insights on the rhetoric:

What Qualifies As Demagoguery?
Indigenous to the demagogue’s extensive use of unidimensionality has been the common practice of scapegoating: the hostile targeting of select groups for condemnation and blame. Important to note is that these groups may be identified by ethnicity, race, or religion, of course, but just as easily by political ideology. Akin to the notional convenience of scapegoats is the historiographical concept of the “Other”: those Americans, as Southern historian Sheldon Hackney described them, standing “in opposition to a presumed American norm.” As such, they are easy targets. It is they who are responsible for the problems of crime or unemployment, for instance; or they may be responsible for cultural upheavals that seemingly threaten traditional values, or even for America’s sagging international standing, if that is the case. The “Other” must be to blame for these conditions, for “we”—the true Americans—continue to uphold all that is good and socially manageable.hnn.us
252 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:18:11am

re: #248 Jadespring

Bleh ‘liberal neo-monarchist’ I mean.

I’m also against that.

253 American-African  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:18:12am

Ok, I read it. I agree this guy was suffering from a severe mental abberation.

This quote from his manifesto, however, sounds remarkably sane.

“Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.”

254 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:18:24am

re: #248 Jadespring

Please be precise, otherwise it makes no sense.

255 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:18:32am

re: #241 Jadespring

What exactly is a ‘neo-liberal monarchnist’?

No fucking idea, but that combination of words are crazy ass awesome and make you think of evil liberal overlords with lots of minions.

256 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:19:52am

re: #255 webevintage

No fucking idea, but that combination of words are crazy ass awesome and make you think of evil liberal overlords with lots of minions.

Sounds like a San Francisco condo HOA, to me.

257 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:20:34am

re: #240 Obdicut

Doesn’t that conflict with the gay agenda a bit? I mean, after all, who gets to be Queen?
//

I do.

258 jaunte  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:20:37am

“Those bad people who are not like you good people here, and can be blamed.”
(but that’s too long).

259 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:20:56am

re: #241 Jadespring

That would be a latte drinking, arugula eating, east coast elite (east coast because we get up earlier and therefore will initiate the Arugula Revolution). Liberal neo-Monarchist just flows better.

260 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:20:56am

Apparently that a staple of Romney: constitutionparti.blogspot.com

261 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:21:40am

re: #259 Jeff In Ohio

That would be a latte drinking, arugula eating, east coast elite (east coast because we get up earlier and therefore will initiate the Arugula Revolution). Liberal neo-Monarchist just flows better.

Ah I see. :)

262 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:22:40am

re: #258 jaunte

“Those bad people who are not like you good people here, and can be blamed.”
(but that’s too long).

To quote Mel Brooks, from the 10,000 year old man:

Hurray for cave 73! F*ck everybody else

263 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:22:52am

re: #242 drcordell

That’s incredible. From what I have seen the situation looked much worse.

It did. From the road it looked terrible

264 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:23:20am

re: #260 suchislife

Apparently that a staple of Romney: [Link: constitutionparti.blogspot.com…]

Ahhh, apparently it has something to do with ‘screwing the people’. Liberal neo-Monarchists = The Man!!!1!1!!

265 jaunte  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:23:23am

re: #262 Guanxi88

Neo-anderthal!

266 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:23:59am

re: #259 Jeff In Ohio

That would be a latte drinking, arugula eating, east coast elite (east coast because we get up earlier and therefore will initiate the Arugula Revolution). Liberal neo-Monarchist just flows better.

Not me then.
I’m a lib, but do not eat arugula nor am I a latte drinker.
I would like to be Monarch…that would be teh awesome.

267 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:24:28am

Seem a little quieter in there? Here’s a tweet from Dave Wiegel:

Mass exodus after Romney speech — about half the room. They’re missing Robert Davi!
268 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:24:51am

re: #266 webevintage

Not me then.
I’m a lib, but do not eat arugula nor am I a latte drinker.
I would like to be Monarch…that would be teh awesome.

I want Australia as my summer quarters. Dibs on Australia!

269 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:24:58am

re: #266 webevintage

Not me then.
I’m a lib, but do not eat arugula nor am I a latte drinker.

FAIL!

270 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:26:08am

That guy just said: conservative is the negation of ideology. … conservatism is an act of creation and love. Who’s he?

271 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:26:44am

ron paul anybody?

fundrace.huffingtonpost.com

272 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:26:51am

re: #266 webevintage

Not me then.
I’m a lib, but do not eat arugula nor am I a latte drinker.
I would like to be Monarch…that would be teh awesome.

Sorry, your what’s known as a ‘Noble’. No royalty without a latte and arugula.

273 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:27:06am

re: #270 suchislife

That guy just said: conservative is the negation of ideology. … conservatism is an act of creation and love. Who’s he?

Representative Thaddeus McCotter (R - MI)

274 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:28:30am

re: #271 spacejesus

ron paul anybody?

[Link: fundrace.huffingtonpost.com…]

Wrong guy. The pilot was from Austin.

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:28:30am

re: #273 Gus 802

Representative Thaddeus McCotter (R - MI)

Good name.

276 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:28:34am

re: #273 Gus 802

Awesome name wasted on a dumb dude.

277 dschlussel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:28:35am

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

How unfortunate that San Francisco Liar, er … Zionist can’t provide a single example of his/her claims, and yet attacks the messenger. In fact, everything I write is heavily sourced and backed up by evidence, including the stuff on Pamela Geller’s and her then-husband’s car dealership. Try google and youtube. And stop lying about me. You are a fraud and coward hiding behind a pseudonym because you can’t back up your specious, undue name-calling. Now, you may return to your cup of hate Kool-Aid.

278 freetoken  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:28:54am

Hey, those Evil Chinese have just made it to the top 4 threats to the US!

279 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:29:50am

re: #275 SanFranciscoZionist

Good name.

Eh, if you’re gonna make up your name, the alias needs to be believable. That one won’t fly, I’m afrad - too obviously fake.

Eustace Plimsoll - favored by Bertram Wilberforce Wooster, however, works.

280 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:30:19am
281 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:30:20am

re: #274 Guanxi88

Wrong guy. The pilot was from Austin.

wasn’t he from CA originally?

282 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:30:56am

re: #277 dschlussel

HAHAHAHA San Francisco Liar. Try the creative writing course at your local community college. And don’t forget the arugula.

283 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:31:01am

re: #278 freetoken

Hey, those Evil Chinese have just made it to the top 4 threats to the US!

I don’t get it. Since when? I realize they’re a threat but he made is sound like we’re still fighting the Cold War. Now this talk about moral relativism and the talk of God — seems as though he was alluding to a cultural war. I used to like McCotter

284 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:31:36am

re: #277 dschlussel

Wow.

Setting aside all points of the actual argument, posts of that kind get mocked on LGF. I’m not sure why you thought that was a smart thing to do.

Congrats on not making any misspellings, though.

285 freetoken  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:31:54am

The Rep. from MI just played the America-under-attack card (“Evil” was a synonym for Muslim, and then there are the Chinese).

These “conservatives” need “evil” to hate. By the enemy being “evil”, we must therefore be the “good”.

This talk at CPAC is disturbing demagoguery.

It isn’t the truth.

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:32:04am

re: #277 dschlussel

How unfortunate that San Francisco Liar, er … Zionist can’t provide a single example of his/her claims, and yet attacks the messenger. In fact, everything I write is heavily sourced and backed up by evidence, including the stuff on Pamela Geller’s and her then-husband’s car dealership. Try google and youtube. And stop lying about me. You are a fraud and coward hiding behind a pseudonym because you can’t back up your specious, undue name-calling. Now, you may return to your cup of hate Kool-Aid.

Hey! I made the big-time!

287 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:32:23am

re: #285 freetoken

The Rep. from MI just played the America-under-attack card (“Evil” was a synonym for Muslim, and then there are the Chinese).

These “conservatives” need “evil” to hate. By the enemy being “evil”, we must therefore be the “good”.

This talk at CPAC is disturbing demagoguery.

It isn’t the truth.

JBS

288 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:32:44am

re: #277 dschlussel

Now, you may return to your cup of hate Kool-Aid.

“Hate Kool-Aid”
hahahahahahahaha

Seriously?
is this actually crazy lady Schussel or just someone pulling our leg?

289 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:33:02am

re: #281 SpaceJesus

wasn’t he from CA originally?

Ya know, I think you’re right. His manifesto references his time in CA.

By Jove, I think you’ve got something there!

290 Cokezero  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:33:22am

re: #281 SpaceJesus

He definitely wasn’t a CPA…

291 freetoken  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:33:24am

Hey, it sounds like anti-science has become old-hat, and the CEI is going to move their searching light of truth to some other dark corner of this nation’s political life…

292 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:33:42am

re: #289 Guanxi88

Ya know, I think you’re right. His manifesto references his time in CA.

By Jove, I think you’ve got something there!

pretty sure this is the guy. and i got 500 of my own that says his went to paul

293 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:34:10am

re: #286 SanFranciscoZionist

Debbie Schlussel’s behavior about the capture and holding of Jill Carroll was contemptible in the extreme.

She’s not big-time. She’s just a jerk.

294 freetoken  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:35:03am

Now we’re going to get to real baiting…

295 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:35:04am

re: #293 Obdicut

Debbie Schlussel’s behavior about the capture and holding of Jill Carroll was contemptible in the extreme.

She’s not big-time. She’s just a jerk.

Oh, humor my delusions of grandeur, Obdi.

/

296 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:35:45am

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

Hee hee. I think you’re grand.

297 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:36:24am
298 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:36:31am

re: #296 Obdicut

Hee hee. I think you’re grand.

Awww. (blushes)

299 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:36:49am

Wow, the “leading light of conservatism” just promised that his speech will allow you to win a discussion with your liberal cousin at the next cocktail party. ???? That’s not much of a political ambition.

300 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:37:29am

I don’t drink “hate cool-aid” any more since I discovered “disdain flavor-aid” as a budget friendly substitute.

301 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:37:52am

#295

Page 73 - Johnson, Navin R.! I’m somebody now! Millions of people look at this book everyday! This is the kind of spontaneous publicity - your name in print - that makes people. I’m in print! Things are going to start happening to me now.

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:38:56am

re: #297 Killgore Trout

CPAC Speakers Bash Obama’s Use Of A Teleprompter — While Standing In Front Of A Teleprompter

Well, at least he wasn’t reading off his hand.

I genuinely don’t get the teleprompter thing. It’s a sort of funny idiosyncracy that he seems to use it for things some politicians might wing, but somehow they make it sound as though this is a weird new innovation brought into a world where real politicians speak for hours on end without notes, like it was the Senate of Rome of something.

303 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:39:21am

re: #299 suchislife

Wow, the “leading light of conservatism” just promised that his speech will allow you to win a discussion with your liberal cousin at the next cocktail party. ??? That’s not much of a political ambition.

The longest journey starts with but a single step!

304 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:39:56am

re: #299 suchislife

Wow, the “leading light of conservatism” just promised that his speech will allow you to win a discussion with your liberal cousin at the next cocktail party. ??? That’s not much of a political ambition.

Yeah. I think most of us can win fights with our cousins on our own.

305 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:40:05am

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

Agreed. I don’t mind if people want to joke about it but to try to turn it into a political talking point is just stupid.

306 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:40:07am

re: #237 webevintage

Cat overlordship is not neo-monarchist. They’re *old school* monarchists. God-given right to rule over staff. Going back to Egypt around the time the rest of the world was flooded for the sake of that Noah-guy.

307 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:40:18am

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

I was wrong—the Krohn kid is there. I don’t think that explains the heavy metal.

308 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:41:07am

re: #255 webevintage

coming out of the elite abyss…

309 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:41:09am

re: #290 Cokezero

He definitely wasn’t a CPA…

Yeah, not a CPA, but definitely in CA at one time:

fox40.com,0,6026317.story

re: #289 Guanxi88

Ya know, I think you’re right. His manifesto references his time in CA.

By Jove, I think you’ve got something there!

Correction on that - he had a software company there. Definitely a different Stack.

310 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:41:43am

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

I genuinely don’t get the teleprompter thing. It’s a sort of funny idiosyncracy that he seems to use it for things some politicians might wing, but somehow they make it sound as though this is a weird new innovation brought into a world where real politicians speak for hours on end without notes, like it was the Senate of Rome of something.

It’s all part of the GOP’s “strategery” straight out of Sun Tzu’s Art of War. Obama’s greatest strength is his oratory. So they are attempting to use the fact that he can give a great speech against him. And as much as it pains me to admit it, I think they are having success doing so.

311 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:42:32am

re: #303 sattv4u2
Sure. It’s certainly a good idea to talk to the people you know first, convince them. Bit of a cheap shot, really. What do you think about the substance of the speeches so far? Any complains? Which parts did you like?

312 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:42:39am

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

I genuinely don’t get the teleprompter thing

After years of hearing how bad a speaker bush was (all the Bushisms) we were treated to an eloquent speaker when Obama burst onto the scene. The few times without the prompter he stumbled, hedged and hawed as much as snyone else without one

(The king Has no Clothes!)

313 fizzlogic  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:43:00am

The current discussion is about the banking crisis. So let’s begin with the conservative substance:

* individual liberty
* economic opportunity
* global democracy
* national pride

that’ll dazzle at the cocktail parties.

314 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:43:52am
315 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:44:09am

Discussions about the comparative fashion choices of Code Pink and the Tea Party Nation would make a great cocktail party discussion.

316 DaddyG  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:44:40am

Come to think of it Red, White and Blue do clash with Pink.

317 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:45:07am

re: #311 suchislife

Sure. It’s certainly a good idea to talk to the people you know first, convince them. Bit of a cheap shot, really. What do you think about the substance of the speeches so far? Any complains? Which parts did you like?

monitoring too many satellite feeds at work with the plane crash in Texas and all to be able to hear any of the speeches yet. Will catch up to them at home tonight if I have a chance

318 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:45:07am

re: #312 sattv4u2

I genuinely don’t get the teleprompter thing

After years of hearing how bad a speaker bush was (all the Bushisms) we were treated to an eloquent speaker when Obama burst onto the scene. The few times without the prompter he stumbled, hedged and hawed as much as snyone else without one

(The king Has no Clothes!)

Apparently you never watched Obama speak at the GOP retreat, or in one on one interviews.

319 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:45:14am

re: #312 sattv4u2

I genuinely don’t get the teleprompter thing

After years of hearing how bad a speaker bush was (all the Bushisms) we were treated to an eloquent speaker when Obama burst onto the scene. The few times without the prompter he stumbled, hedged and hawed as much as snyone else without one

(The king Has no Clothes!)

Uh, I take it you haven’t watched any of the clips from Obama’s visit to the Congressional Republicans a few weeks ago. He flayed every last sum-bitch in the room without so much as a note written on his hand.

320 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:45:21am

re: #312 sattv4u2

I genuinely don’t get the teleprompter thing

After years of hearing how bad a speaker bush was (all the Bushisms) we were treated to an eloquent speaker when Obama burst onto the scene. The few times without the prompter he stumbled, hedged and hawed as much as snyone else without one

(The king Has no Clothes!)

Well, that’s fair, and I think it’s a valid teasing point, much like the 57 United States. I just don’t think it’s a valid policy issue or character issue, which seems to be what it’s getting built up into.

321 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:45:49am

re: #318 avanti

Apparently you never watched Obama speak at the GOP retreat, or in one on one interviews.

Of course not! But that would destroy the narrative that Obama can’t speak without a teleprompter.

322 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:46:23am

re: #321 drcordell


The Youtube interview is pretty good too, though he’s rather academic during it.

323 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:46:28am

re: #314 MandyManners

Beat me to it.

Also, do you take pleasure in systematically down-dinging every single post that I make? What’s your problem?

324 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:46:38am

re: #305 Killgore Trout

Agreed. I don’t mind if people want to joke about it but to try to turn it into a political talking point is just stupid.

It’s weak, and childish. Why they think it’s a winner is just sad and disrespects the audience.

325 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:47:31am

re: #318 avanti

re: #319 drcordell

What have I stated thats innacurate. Has he stumbled without the prompter as much as others have at times!?

326 Locker  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:47:34am

This entire conference just illustrates what we already know. The A game, primary mission from god for the right is to blame, demonize, destroy, discredit, attack, marginalize and criticize the other side. It’s not about issues, it’s not about doing a better job, improving our country or our standard of living. Many props to them for bringing the role of the shit slinging primate into the 21st century.

327 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:47:46am

re: #324 Stanley Sea

It’s weak, and childish. Why they think it’s a winner is just sad and disrespects the audience.

No one is going to this or any other political convention to learn anything. C’mon - they go for the party, and not much more than that.

328 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:48:05am

re: #320 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that’s fair, and I think it’s a valid teasing point, much like the 57 United States. I just don’t think it’s a valid policy issue or character issue, which seems to be what it’s getting built up into.


You mean like I read on one forum that these things are on the list for reasons to impeach? That kind of built up?

//

329 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:48:07am

re: #323 drcordell

Fights over downdings never go anywhere, either.

330 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:48:15am

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

I genuinely don’t get the teleprompter thing. It’s a sort of funny idiosyncracy that he seems to use it for things some politicians might wing, but somehow they make it sound as though this is a weird new innovation brought into a world where real politicians speak for hours on end without notes, like it was the Senate of Rome of something.

Otherwise he tends to Rome.

331 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:48:26am

re: #312 sattv4u2

I genuinely don’t get the teleprompter thing

After years of hearing how bad a speaker bush was (all the Bushisms) we were treated to an eloquent speaker when Obama burst onto the scene. The few times without the prompter he stumbled, hedged and hawed as much as snyone else without one

(The king Has no Clothes!)

And everyone conveniently forgets the Q&A with the Republican’s of the House. It must have been a dream.

332 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:48:30am
333 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:48:57am

re: #321 drcordell

Of course not! But that would destroy the narrative that Obama can’t speak without a teleprompter.

And the narrative about the President is all important, can’t let reality intrude.
That’s why Chaney and his spawn can go on TV and spew about Obama being “soft on terror” because it is the narrative that Frank Luntz has laid out for Republicans.

334 recusancy  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:49:26am

re: #325 sattv4u2

re: #319 drcordell

Has he stumbled without the prompter as much as others have at times!?

No.

335 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:49:41am

This man speaking now seems intent on blaming the Meltdown on Democratic policies and painting the mortgage industry as victim. Funny how those policies (if they were in fact the prime cause) survived several Republican administrations and congressional majorities.

336 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:50:09am

Teleprompter? Who. Cares.

337 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:50:30am

re: #325 sattv4u2

re: #319 drcordell

What have I stated thats innacurate. Has he stumbled without the prompter as much as others have at times!?

He has stumbled without a teleprompter. But he has also utterly ruined an entire room full of aggressive questioners without a teleprompter. And given dozens of excellent television interviews without one. So I fail to see how you can make the claim that Obama turns into some sort of bumbling idiot the second he doesn’t have a teleprompter.

And, that being said, Bush had a teleprompter available to him for any speech he wished. And even while using one he still wasn’t able to sound eloquent. You either have the gift of oratory or you don’t. The teleprompter just allows you to not have to lower your head while you’re attempting to look into a TV camera. It can’t give the damn speech for you.

338 avanti  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:50:45am

re: #325 sattv4u2

re: #319 drcordell

What have I stated thats innacurate. Has he stumbled without the prompter as much as others have at times!?

If you are asking if he’s misspoke, or lost his train of thought on occasion, yes he has. If you are saying he can’t do well on his feet, without notes, I disagree.

339 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:50:45am

re: #335 Gus 802

This man speaking now seems intent on blaming the Meltdown on Democratic policies and painting the mortgage industry as victim. Funny how those policies (if they were in fact the prime cause) survived several Republican administrations and congressional majorities.

No one had any real interest or stake in fixing the problem. It cost too much - politically - for either party, and made too much - money - for the interests involved.

It’s the same reason why we’ll probably never fix immigration in this country.

340 freetoken  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:51:04am

“A million people in front of the Capitol…”

Truth eludes these people.

341 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:51:25am

re: #340 freetoken

“A million people in front of the Capitol…”

Truth eludes these people.

As does counting…
:P

342 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:51:39am

re: #334 recusancy

No.

Or yes!
video.google.com

343 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:51:54am

That teleprompter is a distraction.

344 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:52:38am

Wow. Has anyone else seen this clip of the Young America Foundation spokesman making an Obama/cocaine joke. Hiiiiilarious.

tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com

345 freetoken  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:52:51am

re: #341 Varek Raith

Mathematics is a radical liberal neo-monarchist plot.

346 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:53:07am

re: #338 avanti

If you are asking if he’s misspoke, or lost his train of thought on occasion, yes he has. If you are saying he can’t do well on his feet, without notes, I disagree.

I posted a theory to San Frans Zionists question
I stand by it

Make more of it if you care too.

347 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:53:19am

re: #342 sattv4u2

Or yes!
[Link: video.google.com…]

So? Nucular.
;)

348 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:53:26am

re: #339 Guanxi88

No one had any real interest or stake in fixing the problem. It cost too much - politically - for either party, and made too much - money - for the interests involved.

It’s the same reason why we’ll probably never fix immigration in this country.

Sounds reasonable. I don’t like the idea of blaming either party because when you come down to it it’s all the result just about everybody including the individual. That being taking on mortgages beyond our means or taking out too much credit.

349 recusancy  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:53:38am

re: #342 sattv4u2

Or yes!
[Link: video.google.com…]

Ah… That’s what you mean by stumble. Pausing to pick the right words. Gosh, he sure is stupid.

350 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:53:40am

re: #345 freetoken

Mathematics is a radical liberal neo-monarchist plot.

She blinded me with science Math….

351 keloyd  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:54:33am

re: #335 Gus 802

There are bad ideas that one allows, then there are bad ideas that you came up with and fought for. The mortgage meltdown was initiated by Barney Frank and the hard-left. Their idea was to disconnect access to credit from credit-worthiness, because it’s not fair that one bourgouis parasite can borrow at 5% while his proletariat workers pay more and borrow less. The banks went along with it, with vulgar enthusiasm, because the Gubment implicitly cosigned on all the bad loans thru Fannie and Freddie. Still, the first president ever to have an MBA should have caught that and pressured the Republican majority congress to do their damn jobs and stop it.

352 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:54:48am

re: #342 sattv4u2

Or yes!
[Link: video.google.com…]

Wow! Nearly four years worth of public speeches, debates, campaign stops, and television interviews. And there is a FOUR MINUTE montage of Obama stuttering. What more evidence could you possibly need to prove that Obama is an idiot!

353 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:55:06am

re: #347 Varek Raith

So? Nucular.
;)

I wonder if Bush and Jimmy Carter went to the same school (Carter pronounces it the same way)

354 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:55:34am

re: #345 freetoken

Mathematics is a radical liberal neo-monarchist plot.

Dangit, I did well in math in school. Foiled again!

355 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:55:39am

re: #353 sattv4u2

I wonder if Bush and Jimmy Carter went to the same school (Carter pronounces it the same way)

Probably! :)
I’m just being a pain in the ass. :)

356 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:56:04am

Gah… just had someone calling this loon Stark a hero for crashing his plane into the IRS offices in Austin. He has since been IP banned.

357 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:56:26am

The whole Obama teleprompter meme and it’s continued use is one of the most crass, pathetic and idiot political hit-points I’ve seen. It hits the ‘stupid’
on so many levels and to me is a glaring symbol of how the political discourse is heading straight into the crapper.

I’m mean come on, like or dislike Obama, it’s ridiculous.

358 Locker  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:56:42am

re: #353 sattv4u2

I wonder if Bush and Jimmy Carter went to the same school (Carter pronounces it the same way)

I like how you’ve proved your point. Jimmy Carter allegedly pronounces a word like George Bush thus proving that Obama is just as bad at public speaking as the formerly mentioned Bush. Brilliant!

359 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:57:47am

re: #352 drcordell

Wow! Nearly four years worth of public speeches, debates, campaign stops, and television interviews. And there is a FOUR MINUTE montage of Obama stuttering. What more evidence could you possibly need to prove that Obama is an idiot!

Yup ,, because that is EXACTLY what I wrote ,, that “Obama is an idiot” ,, It’s right up there in my # ,, umm,,, wait ,, it’s not in that one ,,, how about # ,,,oh ,,, damn ,, not there either,, SHIT!

360 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:58:16am

re: #333 webevintage

And the narrative about the President is all important, can’t let reality intrude.
That’s why Chaney and his spawn can go on TV and spew about Obama being “soft on terror” because it is the narrative that Frank Luntz has laid out for Republicans.

You really think Cheney is just parroting what someone told him to say? I thought he was the evil mastermind behind the last 8 years, the puppet master. Now he’s just a crazy old man who does what he’s told?

361 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:58:27am

re: #358 Locker

I like how you’ve proved your point. Jimmy Carter allegedly pronounces a word like George Bush thus proving that Obama is just as bad at public speaking as the formerly mentioned Bush. Brilliant!

I’m a terrible speaker but, dammit, I’ll at least pronounce words correctly!
:D

362 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:58:37am
363 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:58:58am

re: #348 Gus 802

Sounds reasonable. I don’t like the idea of blaming either party because when you come down to it it’s all the result just about everybody including the individual. That being taking on mortgages beyond our means or taking out too much credit.

Those who have been truly screwed are those who have been living within their means, properly paying for services, and attempting to get rational policies enacted by our elected officials. (For whose election we often hold or nose and elect the lesser of two weevils.)

On the plus side, the United States hasn’t been subjected to a foreign invasion or widespread civil war for a long time. Our foreign policy has been forward and outward looking enough to be fighting its wars on someone else’s property for the most part.

364 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:59:08am
365 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:59:34am

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. I think most of us can win fights with our cousins on our own.

My cousin was in the Phoenix Program in Viet Nam. He scares me. I never win.

366 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 11:59:40am

re: #359 sattv4u2

Yup ,, because that is EXACTLY what I wrote ,, that “Obama is an idiot” ,, It’s right up there in my # ,, umm,,, wait ,, it’s not in that one ,,, how about # ,,,oh ,,, damn ,, not there either,, SHIT!

Will you just concede that the argument you are attempting to make is a giant bucket of FAIL? Obama is a good public speaker. He doesn’t need a teleprompter to speak well in public. And no, a four minute montage edited together from public appearances from 2006-2010 does not prove your point.

367 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:00:06pm

re: #352 drcordell

Wow! Nearly four years worth of public speeches, debates, campaign stops, and television interviews. And there is a FOUR MINUTE montage of Obama stuttering. What more evidence could you possibly need to prove that Obama is an idiot!

Right.
Good grief.
Don’t folks know that sort of think only works to prove idiocy when it’s a montage of GWB’s gaffes?

368 Locker  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:00:12pm

re: #359 sattv4u2

Yup ,, because that is EXACTLY what I wrote ,, that “Obama is an idiot” ,, It’s right up there in my # ,, umm,,, wait ,, it’s not in that one ,,, how about # ,,,oh ,,, damn ,, not there either,, SHIT!

You’ll say just about anything to avoid admitting you are full of shit won’t you? You’ll accuse people of misquoting you when they didn’t quote you, you’ll move your goal post and change the subject if you hit a brick wall. Basically you have no attachment to what you say and are only trying to provoke a reaction and enhance your ego. I know this definition fits a word… hmm what was it again??

369 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:00:19pm

re: #365 Jeff In Ohio

My cousin was in the Phoenix Program in Viet Nam. He scares me. I never win.

Damn! Let the man have his way.

370 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:00:20pm

re: #348 Gus 802

Sounds reasonable. I don’t like the idea of blaming either party because when you come down to it it’s all the result just about everybody including the individual. That being taking on mortgages beyond our means or taking out too much credit.

I thought the melt down had way more to do with derivitives .

371 recusancy  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:00:47pm

re: #360 RogueOne

You really think Cheney is just parroting what someone told him to say? I thought he was the evil mastermind behind the last 8 years, the puppet master. Now he’s just a crazy old man who does what he’s told?

The framing. Yes. Luntz isn’t a policy guy. He’s a marketing/framing guy.

372 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:01:12pm

re: #365 Jeff In Ohio

My cousin was in the Phoenix Program in Viet Nam. He scares me. I never win.

“You know something? I’m pretty certain you’re 100% right on that point. I thank you very much for bringing me around tot he right way of looking at it. Sir.”

373 suchislife  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:02:05pm

re: #360 RogueOne

You really think Cheney is just parroting what someone told him to say? I thought he was the evil mastermind behind the last 8 years, the puppet master. Now he’s just a crazy old man who does what he’s told?

I think he/she says that politicians get away with spouting bullshit outrage talking points to the media if it fits a narrative that has previously been established. Then, they can go back to being puppet masters in the privacy of the back rooms.

374 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:02:07pm

re: #364 MandyManners

Yeah, at my blog..

375 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:02:23pm

re: #372 Guanxi88

“You know something? I’m pretty certain you’re 100% right on that point. I thank you very much for bringing me around tot he right way of looking at it. Sir.”

And then, on your way out of the party, let the air out of his tires!
:P

376 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:03:13pm

re: #351 keloyd

The mortgage meltdown was not initiated by Barney Frank.

Most of the lenders who made toxic loans were non-banks not under CRA rules.

377 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:03:22pm

re: #366 drcordell

Will you just concede that the argument you are attempting to make is a giant bucket of FAIL? Obama is a good public speaker. He doesn’t need a teleprompter to speak well in public. And no, a four minute montage edited together from public appearances from 2006-2010 does not prove your point.

I don’t know if you have addressed this already, but this comment you made was in extremely bad taste and I think that you should withdraw it and apologize. It was a disgraceful thing to say.

378 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:03:36pm

re: #374 lawhawk

Yeah, at my blog..

You ought to see the crap over at xelA senoJ. Mind-blowing.

Most are saying it’s too soon to tell what happened, and that it might just be a disturbed guy.

Some are saying he did the wrong thing, but they can sorta sympathize

Others are screaming “false-flag!”.

And a few are hailing him.

379 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:03:52pm

Uh oh, here comes the anti-Fed rhetoric.

380 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:04:43pm

re: #371 recusancy

The framing. Yes. Luntz isn’t a policy guy. He’s a marketing/framing guy.

The VP’s job is to keep his mouth shut about what his views are and parrot the party line. I think Cheney, now that he’s not the VP, says what he believes.

381 Altermite  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:04:56pm

re: #377 cliffster

I don’t know if you have addressed this already, but this comment you made was in extremely bad taste and I think that you should withdraw it and apologize. It was a disgraceful thing to say.

Also, it was in a different thread. I was under the impression that spontaneous dredging things up from the past attacks were not encouraged around here?

382 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:05:20pm

re: #370 webevintage

I thought the melt down had way more to do with derivitives .

Hi webevintage! IIRC, it was almost a cascade. The CRA - which had teeth put into it in 1996 or so, resulted in the issuance of what came to be called toxic mortgages (and there’s a ton of blame to go around there). Many of these were bundled into what were called Mortgage Backed Securities - basically a bundle of numerous mortgages that were offered as investments. When MBS’s were born, someone came up with the idea of “insuring” those investments with Credit Default Swaps (CDS).

When the mortgages started to go into default, the whole house of cards collapsed.

BTW, I’m no expert in this, but that’s pretty much my understanding of the overall picture.

;-)

383 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:05:20pm

re: #376 Obdicut

The mortgage meltdown was not initiated by Barney Frank.

Most of the lenders who made toxic loans were non-banks not under CRA rules.

re: #351 keloyd

Had a response that I was going to delete…

The sub-prime mortgage meltdown was not initiated by Barney Frank. There where policy measures in place that the mortgage banks thought they could take advantage of but they only represented a small portion of the sub-primes loans. That is, this wasn’t the result of bad loans in urban areas alone which is the common talking point, but throughout the United States and which includes the suburbs. It had more to do with what the mortgage houses and investment firms were doing to support those “bad loans.”

384 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:05:32pm

re: #277 dschlussel

…In fact, everything I write is heavily sourced and backed up by evidence, including the stuff on Pamela Geller’s and her then-husband’s car dealership. Try google and youtube.

Do you have links on your site to back up your statements? That would sure simplify things.

385 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:06:59pm

re: #377 cliffster

I don’t know if you have addressed this already, but this comment you made was in extremely bad taste and I think that you should withdraw it and apologize. It was a disgraceful thing to say.

Nahh ,,, he and his buds are too outraged that I DARED hypothisize that Obama isn’t a good speaker sans teleprompter!

Heres my “original sin” ,,
littlegreenfootballs.com

386 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:07:02pm

re: #379 Gus 802

Uh oh, here comes the anti-Fed rhetoric.

I can’t see why anyone would be anti-Fed. I love being fed! Food is good!

/(I know, be quiet, you smart-ass…)

387 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:07:04pm

re: #372 Guanxi88

“You know something? I’m pretty certain you’re 100% right on that point. I thank you very much for bringing me around tot he right way of looking at it. Sir.”

“Yes sir, I never really looked at it like that. I can see your point. G. Gordon Liddy and Oli North are great Americans and I am a mere tool of the Liberal Public Schools.”

388 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:07:04pm

re: #384 wrenchwench

Do you have links on your site to back up your statements? That would sure simplify things.

Heh, sure, I left them in my orbiting UFO…
;)

389 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:08:07pm
390 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:08:22pm

re: #382 subsailor68

Again: Most toxic loans were done by non-banks and were in no way at all related to the CRAs.

The rest of what you said is spot-on.

391 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:08:34pm

re: #383 Gus 802

re: #351 keloyd

Had a response that I was going to delete…

The sub-prime mortgage meltdown was not initiated by Barney Frank. There where policy measures in place that the mortgage banks thought they could take advantage of but they only represented a small portion of the sub-primes loans. That is, this wasn’t the result of bad loans in urban areas alone which is the common talking point, but throughout the United States and which includes the suburbs. It had more to do with what the mortgage houses and investment firms were doing to support those “bad loans.”

Hi Gus802! Very good point! It wasn’t just “poor follks” - the greed of people who “overbought” (think McMansions) in the belief that property values would always go up, or their “income” would have risen by the time ARM readjust time hit - well, they’re a big part of the problem too.

392 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:09:30pm

subsailor68
Gus 802

Thanks.
This made me remember the Frontline on Brooksley Born.
pbs.org

“In The Warning, veteran FRONTLINE producer Michael Kirk unearths the hidden history of the nation’s worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. At the center of it all he finds Brooksley Born, who speaks for the first time on television about her failed campaign to regulate the secretive, multitrillion-dollar derivatives market whose crash helped trigger the financial collapse in the fall of 2008.”

393 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:09:51pm

RE: Texas air crash

I thought I heard on the radio that the pilot left a suicide note/screed calling out issues with the IRS, his wife, and GW Bush. Has anyone read a source on this? I just barely caught the tail end of the news report.

394 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:09:54pm

re: #390 Obdicut

Again: Most toxic loans were done by non-banks and were in no way at all related to the CRAs.

The rest of what you said is spot-on.

Hi Obdicut! Yep. CRA’s were certainly responsible for part of the meltdown, but as you note those non-bank folks need a good “whuppin’ as well.

;-)

395 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:10:03pm

re: #385 sattv4u2

Nahh ,,, he and his buds are too outraged that I DARED hypothisize that Obama isn’t a good speaker sans teleprompter!

Heres my “original sin” ,,
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

But satt, you know … the Bushisms were really funny.
Even Bush got a kick out of himself on those things.

396 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:10:20pm

re: #387 Jeff In Ohio

“Yes sir, I never really looked at it like that. I can see your point. G. Gordon Liddy and Oli North are great Americans and I am a mere tool of the Liberal Public Schools.”

(Guy was in Phoenix, and not Arizona, either. I ain’t about to argue with him.)

397 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:10:40pm

re: #389 MandyManners


I think it was a one-off. A flounce of sorts I guess, but it’s one and done for him…

398 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:11:09pm

re: #392 webevintage

subsailor68
Gus 802

Thanks.
This made me remember the Frontline on Brooksley Born.
[Link: www.pbs.org…]

“In The Warning, veteran FRONTLINE producer Michael Kirk unearths the hidden history of the nation’s worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. At the center of it all he finds Brooksley Born, who speaks for the first time on television about her failed campaign to regulate the secretive, multitrillion-dollar derivatives market whose crash helped trigger the financial collapse in the fall of 2008.”

Frontline has another good program called “Meltdown” which covers the events leading to the demise of Bear Stearns, et al.

399 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:11:14pm

re: #393 RogueOne

RE: Texas air crash

I thought I heard on the radio that the pilot left a suicide note/screed calling out issues with the IRS, his wife, and GW Bush. Has anyone read a source on this? I just barely caught the tail end of the news report.

Check upthread - someone had a link to it.
He pretty much sounded to me like an equal opportunity hater, general victim and batshit crazy.

400 recusancy  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:11:43pm

re: #393 RogueOne

RE: Texas air crash

I thought I heard on the radio that the pilot left a suicide note/screed calling out issues with the IRS, his wife, and GW Bush. Has anyone read a source on this? I just barely caught the tail end of the news report.

cnn.com

401 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:11:44pm

re: #395 reine.de.tout

But satt, you know … the Bushisms were really funny.
Even Bush got a kick out of himself on those things.

The only peeve I have about public speakers is when they mispronounce words. Other than that, no big deal.

It’s ‘ROOF’ not ‘RUUF’.
;)

402 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:11:48pm

Uh oh. Here comes the so-cons!

403 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:11:50pm
404 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:11:51pm

re: #393 RogueOne

RE: Texas air crash

I thought I heard on the radio that the pilot left a suicide note/screed calling out issues with the IRS, his wife, and GW Bush. Has anyone read a source on this? I just barely caught the tail end of the news report.

embeddedart.com

405 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:11:53pm

re: #391 subsailor68

There was a great article in the Atlantic a few months back correlating Prosperity Christianism and home loan defaults. Of course correlation is not causation, but from a micro view of the whole debacle, it was a great and fascinating read.

406 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:12:11pm

re: #148 insanity police

Upon reading your post, I found it odd that Schlussel would be slamming CPAC given her own bat guano nuttiness but then I read her blog post and it made sense. Thank goodness for the free flow of information.

407 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:12:24pm
408 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:12:28pm

re: #404 Jadespring

[Link: embeddedart.com…]

Site’s been pulled/

409 recusancy  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:12:41pm

re: #393 RogueOne

RE: Texas air crash

I thought I heard on the radio that the pilot left a suicide note/screed calling out issues with the IRS, his wife, and GW Bush. Has anyone read a source on this? I just barely caught the tail end of the news report.

Stack Note:

410 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:12:48pm

re: #395 reine.de.tout

But satt, you know … the Bushisms were really funny.
Even Bush got a kick out of himself on those things.

Some of his greatest assets was his self deprication, his sense of humor and humility

411 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:13:02pm

re: #405 Jeff In Ohio

There was a great article in the Atlantic a few months back correlating Prosperity Christianism and home loan defaults. Of course correlation is not causation, but from a micro view of the whole debacle, it was a great and fascinating read.

Hi Jeff! Thanks. I’ll see if I can dig it up!

412 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:13:17pm

re: #408 Guanxi88

Site’s been pulled/

It has? Good thing I still have the page open. I can save it.

413 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:13:36pm

re: #403 MandyManners

Links here and in ther previous thread.

Didn’t you mean to say “that ther” previous thread?

414 darthstar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:13:46pm

re: #408 Guanxi88

Site’s been pulled/

Good…the last thing we need is someone using him as inspiration for their own craziness.

415 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:14:22pm

re: #394 subsailor68

But CRAs actually had lower rates of failure than other subprime loans.

416 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:14:40pm
417 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:15:06pm

re: #411 subsailor68

It was a good article, if nothing else for showing how much false hope some people are given by these huckster-preachers.

418 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:15:08pm

re: #416 MandyManners

Extraneous “r”.

:-)
I know.
Somewhere upthread I said “that there” by accident.
I was just joshin’ ya.

419 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:15:08pm

re: #393 RogueOne

The manifesto goes into his tax problems going back to the 1980s and the 1986 Tax Act changes, rails on IRS categorization of income, complaints about the lack of health care, high taxes, audits - one of which was apparently quite recently, etc. Definitely has an anti-IRS bent. There’s also a bit of anti-religious sentiment, and attacks Bush:

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

Seems he also appeared to have issues with the FAA - particularly with grounding of aircraft and rules changes following 9/11 that made it more difficult for him to get access to customers.

420 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:15:38pm

re: #414 darthstar

Good…the last thing we need is someone using him as inspiration for their own craziness.

I just google the first few lines. It’s posted all over the place.

421 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:16:12pm

re: #400 recusancy

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

Wow. A 6 page typed suicide note. I’m almost afraid to read it.

422 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:16:27pm

re: #419 lawhawk

The manifesto goes into his tax problems going back to the 1980s and the 1986 Tax Act changes, rails on IRS categorization of income, complaints about the lack of health care, high taxes, audits - one of which was apparently quite recently, etc. Definitely has an anti-IRS bent. There’s also a bit of anti-religious sentiment, and attacks Bush:

Seems he also appeared to have issues with the FAA - particularly with grounding of aircraft and rules changes following 9/11 that made it more difficult for him to get access to customers.

In reading through the whole thing, what strikes me is how absolutely nothing was his fault or just bad luck, or the unfortunate result of poor timing.

423 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:16:30pm

re: #408 Guanxi88

Site’s been pulled/

I have it saved, if you want it (for whatever morbid reason!)

424 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:16:32pm

re: #421 RogueOne

Wow. A 6 page typed suicide note. I’m almost afraid to read it.

It’s crazy.

425 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:16:43pm

re: #411 subsailor68

Hi Jeff! Thanks. I’ll see if I can dig it up!

theatlantic.com

There you go.

426 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:17:00pm

re: #423 cliffster

I have it saved, if you want it (for whatever morbid reason!)

meh, I’m here in Austin - it’s all over the place, web-wise.

427 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:17:39pm

re: #421 RogueOne

Wow. A 6 page typed suicide note. I’m almost afraid to read it.

Well if you really want to here’s the first lines. You’ll find it with google.

“If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. “

428 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:18:04pm

re: #393 RogueOne

RE: Texas air crash

I thought I heard on the radio that the pilot left a suicide note/screed calling out issues with the IRS, his wife, and GW Bush. Has anyone read a source on this? I just barely caught the tail end of the news report.

Try this.

429 simoom  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:18:15pm

re: #139 Killgore Trout

Ugh, I’m sure the Paulians and racists at Stormfront are crowing too.

You’re right about the Paulians; I’ve been poking around the ronpaulforums.

Some think he must be associated with the Liberty movement, and worry that the press will use his crimes to paint the movement with that broad brush. Many are very supportive of the content of his manifesto, for example calling it, “a fantastic letter”, something “i can relate to”, “fascinating”, etc. They seem split between whether what he did was “stupid” & “undermines his arguments” or whether he’s “a soldier who died in battle for the cause of liberty” & “political power flows from the barrel of a gun.”

430 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:19:18pm

Daamn, you guys are ON it! Thanks everyone!

431 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:19:43pm

re: #430 RogueOne

Daamn, you guys are ON it! Thanks everyone!

The magic of LGF.

432 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:20:02pm

re: #430 RogueOne

Daamn, you guys are ON it! Thanks everyone!

re: #431 reine.de.tout

The magic of LGF.

Distributed information-gathering and analysis.

433 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:20:21pm

re: #425 Jeff In Ohio

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

There you go.

Prosperity Christianism.
Ugh.
What a way to miss the whole point of Jesus.

434 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:20:24pm

re: #429 simoom

You’re right about the Paulians; I’ve been poking around the ronpaulforums.

Some think he must be associated with the Liberty movement, and worry that the press will use his crimes to paint the movement with that broad brush. Many are very supportive of the content of his manifesto, for example calling it, “a fantastic letter”, something “i can relate to”, “fascinating”, etc. They seem split between whether what he did was “stupid” & “undermines his arguments” or whether he’s “a soldier who died in battle for the cause of liberty” & “political power flows from the barrel of a gun.”

Yeah, It seems he’s being declared a hero in certain circles.

435 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:20:56pm
436 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:21:01pm

re: #419 lawhawk

I printed it. I read it through. 5+ pages single spaced. Rambling. In summary?
Life as a Train wreck.
Death as a plane crash.

437 jzm  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:22:04pm

PLEASE help me..I know this is from 09 but I need some opinions on this from people smarter than me :)

Extraordinary Measures
A new memo shows just how far the Bush administration considered going in fighting the war on terror.
newsweek.com

First is it true?
and 2nd is this normal?

438 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:22:05pm

re: #425 Jeff In Ohio

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

There you go.

Far out! Thanks, will read it.

439 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:23:40pm

Idiot article at The American Spectator:
spectator.org

Best satirical comment besides the first that just ask if the author was “fucking retarded”:
“Finally, an American with the guts to stand up to the monstrous tyranny of life in Obama’s America. Joe Stack, we will avenge you! America can’t survive the marxist onslaught by the Kenyan and his al qaeda collaborators in the demrat party. Joe reminded us in the most dramatic way. He is the first martyr of the Tea Party activists who are taking back America in his name! God preserve his soul! “

440 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:23:46pm

lol The speaker is knocking “rock and roll” music!

441 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:23:51pm

Aw, this lady is going after the rock & roll and the cartoons!

442 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:24:20pm

re: #441 Stanley Sea

Aw, this lady is going after the rock & roll and the cartoons!

Is this a movie?

/

443 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:24:43pm

re: #441 Stanley Sea

Aw, this lady is going after the rock & roll and the cartoons!

Is it still the 50’s?

444 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:25:35pm

re: #439 webevintage

Idiot article at The American Spectator:
[Link: spectator.org…]

Best satirical comment besides the first that just ask if the author was “fucking retarded”:
“Finally, an American with the guts to stand up to the monstrous tyranny of life in Obama’s America. Joe Stack, we will avenge you! America can’t survive the marxist onslaught by the Kenyan and his al qaeda collaborators in the demrat party. Joe reminded us in the most dramatic way. He is the first martyr of the Tea Party activists who are taking back America in his name! God preserve his soul! “

OMG. “First Martyr of the Tea Party activists”.

So - is this commenter a tea-partier claiming Joe Stack as one of his own?
ugh ugh and ugh and double ugh.

445 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:25:43pm

re: #440 Gus 802

lol The speaker is knocking “rock and roll” music!

What is this, 1950?
Rhetorical.
:)

446 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:25:45pm

re: #441 Stanley Sea

Is it Tipper Gore?

447 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:25:54pm

re: #442 Gus 802

Is this a movie?

/

More like a band.

448 SixDegrees  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:26:08pm

re: #437 jzm

PLEASE help me..I know this is from 09 but I need some opinions on this from people smarter than me :)

Extraordinary Measures
A new memo shows just how far the Bush administration considered going in fighting the war on terror.
[Link: www.newsweek.com…]

First is it true?
and 2nd is this normal?

I don’t know if it’s true. But it’s certain that, a little more than a month after 9/11, there were all manner of options being put forward and considered at all levels of government. In the end, few - none, of the ones mentioned in the article, apparently - were adopted.

Yes, I would consider this entirely normal.

449 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:26:09pm

re: #435 MandyManners

I’ve been travelling West Virginia through Google maps.

Have you got to the ghost towns of New River yet?

newriverwv.com

450 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:26:17pm

re: #445 Varek Raith

What is this, 1950?
Rhetorical.
:)

It’s like being in a time machine.

451 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:26:27pm

That’s Janice Shaw Crouse from the Beverly LaHaye Institute — Beverly LaHaye is the wife of Tim LaHaye who wrote the “Left Behind” End Times books and made a huge fortune.

452 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:26:48pm

re: #436 Rightwingconspirator

I printed it. I read it through. 5+ pages single spaced. Rambling. In summary?
Life as a Train wreck.
Death as a plane crash.

I was just telling one of my employees about his 6 page, single spaced, typed screed and his reply was

Mine is going to be real short. “screw you guys, you suck, I’m outta here!”

He already has a plan, that’s why I like him.

453 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:26:50pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

Good point and I just praised her post.

When our friend Dan Kliman died, she ran a post that outright claimed that Muslims were responsible for his death. No proof, no evidence, similar to the fear mongering that Pamela Gellar used recently when she made the hollow claim about our govt being run by Islamists.

454 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:27:11pm

re: #440 Gus 802

lol The speaker is knocking “rock and roll” music!

Good gawd a’mighty!

Really? I can’t listen to this, it’s just too painful.

Do you remember when churches had these huge record-burnings?
Burned Beatles records, all sorts of music that had hidden satanic meanings.
Crazy.

455 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:27:45pm

re: #452 RogueOne

J.P. Donleavy already figured out the perfect suicide note:

“Forgive me,
You fuckers.”

456 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:27:54pm

Oh Jebus, she is from the The Beverly LaHaye Institute.
Wife of Tim LaHaye one of the authors of The Left Behind series.

457 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:28:20pm

re: #437 jzm

In the context of a fight to the death, or many terror attacks at the same time, this was possible. If the white house had been hit maybe.

458 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:28:20pm

re: #441 Stanley Sea

I didn’t know Tipper Gore was speaking at CPAC…

///

459 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:28:56pm

re: #435 MandyManners

I’ve been travelling West Virginia through Google maps.

re: #449 Guanxi88

Have you got to the ghost towns of New River yet?

[Link: www.newriverwv.com…]

Better than 100 abandoned town in that gorge. Almost inaccessible, the lot of them.

460 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:28:58pm

re: #454 reine.de.tout

Good gawd a’mighty!

Really? I can’t listen to this, it’s just too painful.

Do you remember when churches had these huge record-burnings?
Burned Beatles records, all sorts of music that had hidden satanic meanings.
Crazy.

I’m just so incredibly thankful that my parents, imperfect though they were, were at least completely sane.

461 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:29:19pm

re: #451 Charles

Crazy Pam posted a pic for you of her and Spencer hanging out with RSM at CPAC.

462 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:29:34pm

Any one rant against video games, yet?
(I don’t have sound)

463 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:29:46pm

I guess I’ll quit waiting for an answer from dschlussel. Apparently she only comes here to complain.

42 dschlussel10/29/2008 12:39:57 pm PDT
re: #9 Cognito

Um, perhaps you could learn to click on links. I made it clear in one of the links in the post to which LGF linked that Wallsten took at least one passage from me and copied it, and largely used my article and expanded upon it for his story.

Even the Politico called LA Times Wallsten for ripping me off.


115 dschlussel Tue, Oct 16, 2007 11:41:39am

Since a lot of people are mentioning my name in connection with Myers, but don’t know I’m the author of this piece (because Charles did not note this—WHY?!) Um, HELLO … I WROTE THIS COLUMN (and sent it to Charles). Not sure why Charles did NOT post that, since he posted almost the entire column, ensuring people would not go to the link to see who wrote it. Charles, if you wrote a column and sent it to me, I’d certainly give you credit. That’s just common courtesy. What gives? I spent a ton of time on this and deserve credit. Thanks.


711 dschlussel9/06/2007 6:39:19 am PDT

Since “Killian Bundy” doesn’t have the guts to use his real name, but does have the gall to falsely accuse me of not checking my facts (wrong), I have to ask him to site a single fact that I cited about Fred Thompson and Spencer Abraham in the article referred to by commenters here that is false. If you cannot (and you can’t), please shut up and stop making false comments. The Fred campaign could not respond to a single fact in that article, which is why, instead, they attacked me personally, as you are doing here as well. And Fred admitted he hired Spence Abraham as his campaign manager (in a Fred press release sent to all media outlets). Why can’t you?

As for me being “pudgy” as someone else claimed, I am 5’1”/5’2” and weigh 103 pounds. I run 5 miles every other morning and wear a size 2/4. Is that “pudgy”? Yes, compared to Ann Coulter, that is “pudgy”. Ann is about 6 feet tall and weighs barely more than me (if that). And Ann and I are friends.


235 dschlussel10/23/2007 7:30:22 pm PDT

Since I was the first blog to post this photo, early this afternoon, and have been following Mrs. Bush’s phony breast cancer awareness pandering tours (last year and this one), you should note that the photo is from the UAE, NOT Saudi Arabia. And Also, FYI, the photo is not the Photo of the Day as you say, Charles. It is the Photo of the Year, as I headlined my piece. I have some interesting captions, too. Wish I’d sent it to you earlier when I posted it.


40 dschlussel4/29/2008 11:34:02 am PDT
re: #32 Killian Bundy

You know, not one part of that description related to Hezbollah is sourced.

/Debbie has a habit of doing that

Normally I wouldn’t respond to this, but it is such a lie.

Um, I sourced The Detroit News, where he said he supports Hezbollah. I cited the federal case, in which he and a Hezbollah guy— whose family was convicted of cigarette smuggling for Hezbollah—were convicted. Where do you think the insurance fraud money went to?

Those are sources as my my federal and local law enforcement sources, who want to keep their jobs (and their lives).

The only person who has a habit of doing anything is you of knocking my hard work with baseless claims. Actually, the habit is bordering on obsession.

464 exelwood  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:29:47pm

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

Raving right-wing techno-rationalist. (PIMF)

Really? Reading his “manifesto” he sounds more like a raving left-wing techno-anarchist than “One of those raving right-wing techno-rationalists probably”.

Or maybe I’m judging too quickly…

465 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:30:22pm

re: #444 reine.de.tout

OMG. “First Martyr of the Tea Party activists”.

So - is this commenter a tea-partier claiming Joe Stack as one of his own?
ugh ugh and ugh and double ugh.

nonono
The comment was a satire…sarcasm…sorry if I was not clear.

466 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:30:26pm

This guy quotes Patrick Buchanan!

467 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:30:29pm

re: #461 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam posted a pic for you of her and Spencer hanging out with RSM at CPAC.

is she plastered tight up against RSM?
They both seem to lurve the closeness.

468 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:30:48pm

re: #464 exelwood

No, he’s just crazy. :/

469 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:31:22pm

I’m unable to watch the video. Has any speaker rallied for “family values” yet? Any subtle gay bashing going on?

470 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:31:27pm

re: #464 exelwood

Really? Reading his “manifesto” he sounds more like a raving left-wing techno-anarchist than “One of those raving right-wing techno-rationalists probably”.

Or maybe I’m judging too quickly…

he sounds like a batshit crazy lunatic to me.

471 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:31:45pm

re: #437 jzm

From the article:

In perhaps the most surprising assertion, the Oct. 23, 2001, memo suggested the president could even suspend press freedoms if he concluded it was necessary to wage the war on terror. “First Amendment speech and press rights may also be subordinated to the overriding need to wage war successfully,” Yoo wrote in the memo entitled “Authority for Use of Military Force to Combat Terrorist Activity Within the United States.”

This claim was viewed as so extreme that it was essentially (and secretly) revoked—but not until October of last year, seven years after the memo was written and with barely three and a half months left in the Bush administration.

Dang.

472 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:31:55pm

re: #454 reine.de.tout

Good gawd a’mighty!

Really? I can’t listen to this, it’s just too painful.

Do you remember when churches had these huge record-burnings?
Burned Beatles records, all sorts of music that had hidden satanic meanings.
Crazy.

Never thought I’d see the day were rock ‘n roll music is blamed for social problems again. Sooner or later it was bound to come up and it did today at CPAC.

473 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:32:01pm

re: #451 Charles

That’s Janice Shaw Crouse from the Beverly LaHaye Institute — Beverly LaHaye is the wife of Tim LaHaye who wrote the “Left Behind” End Times books and made a huge fortune.

Tim will be the Leader of The Undead in my new Hollywood Script “The Zombie Rapture: Those Damned Dominonists”. Shawn of the Dead meets The Left Behind…with a twist!

474 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:32:34pm

re: #435 MandyManners

I’ve been travelling West Virginia through Google maps.

re: #459 Guanxi88

Better than 100 abandoned town in that gorge. Almost inaccessible, the lot of them.

And another resource:

freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com

I recall coming across two abandoned towns when my buddies and I were hiking the backcountry. Look to have been lumber towns, maybe.

475 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:32:54pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Never thought I’d see the day were rock ‘n roll music is blamed for social problems again. Sooner or later it was bound to come up and it did today at CPAC.

Yeah, blaming video games for societal ills is all the rage now.

476 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:33:40pm

re: #469 eclectic infidel

I’m unable to watch the video. Has any speaker rallied for “family values” yet? Any subtle gay bashing going on?

He just spoke about this
manhattandeclaration.org

Lots of declarations and manifestos lately….

and now he is talking about abortion and how FOTF is all awesome and such.

477 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:33:53pm

re: #475 Varek Raith

Yeah, blaming video games for societal ills is all the rage now.

Grand Theft Auto! I’ve missed a lot that talk since I don’t watch TV. It’s easy to avoid a lot of that chatter on the internet.

478 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:33:55pm

re: #463 wrenchwench

She has a real issue with people using nicknames, doesn’t she.

For the record:
Reine.De.Tout is my real name.

479 deadletterboy  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:34:06pm

I turned it on, heard ‘focus on the family’, and turned it off again. I need my brain cells.

480 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:34:36pm

re: #464 exelwood

Really? Reading his “manifesto” he sounds more like a raving left-wing techno-anarchist than “One of those raving right-wing techno-rationalists probably”.

Or maybe I’m judging too quickly…

Everyone already knows he’s a latte drinking, arugula eating Liberal Neo-Monarchist with Nihilists tendencies.

Who are we talking about?

481 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:34:41pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Never thought I’d see the day were rock ‘n roll music is blamed for social problems again. Sooner or later it was bound to come up and it did today at CPAC.

I’m stunned. Really.
I thought this was all behind us. I’m just speechless.

482 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:35:09pm

re: #468 Varek Raith

The unpublished bit was the memo from the cat overlords firing him for failing to maintain a proper attitude and level of service. They are subtle in their hints usually, but finally had to be straightforward since he just didn’t get it.

Since his final action was sabotage against cat-owned infrastructure and other staff his afterlife rating has already been downdinged and he has been nominated for reincarnation as a small rodent.

//

483 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:35:41pm

re: #481 reine.de.tout

I’m stunned. Really.
I thought this was all behind us. I’m just speechless.

Yeah, this was there so-con segment. From their agenda:

Saving Freedom from The Enemies of Our Values
Marriott Ballroom

Phyllis Schlafly, Eagle Forum
Janice Shaw Crouse, author of Children at Risk
Eric Metaxas, Socrates in the City
Tim Goeglein, Focus on the Family Action

Moderator: Terry Jeffrey, CNSNews.com

484 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:36:38pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Never thought I’d see the day were rock ‘n roll music is blamed for social problems again. Sooner or later it was bound to come up and it did today at CPAC.

Everyone knows its rap that’s destroying our society.

485 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:37:00pm

re: #484 cliffster

Everyone knows its rap that’s destroying our society.

No, GTA.
;)

486 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:37:22pm

re: #484 cliffster

Everyone knows its rap that’s destroying our society.

Trans fats.

487 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:37:40pm

re: #483 Gus 802

Saving Freedom from The Enemies of Our Values


..Wow, okay.

488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:38:42pm

Hey! Just had a drive. 3 hours…

Miss anything?

489 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:39:25pm
490 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:39:37pm

re: #487 Varek Raith

..Wow, okay.

Yes, that is a winner. Don’t let syntax get in the way of saving freedom from our values and our enemies…or whatever.

491 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:39:49pm

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey! Just had a drive. 3 hours…

Miss anything?

Some people lost their dingers for awhile
Other than that, not much.
/ / / /

492 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:40:10pm

re: #478 reine.de.tout

She has a real issue with people using nicknames, doesn’t she.

For the record:
Reine.De.Tout is my real name.

In a perfect world I would really like to use my real name. However after dealing with an internet issue with a crazy person that included harassment, death threats and trying to ‘track me down’ it’s not going to happen. A nickname gives at least some security to having to deal with that crap again.

493 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:40:25pm

re: #489 Killgore Trout

Proof of socialism: Books!
Photo Evidence: Michelle Obama Keeps Socialist Books In The White House Library
OMG!

What, no books on arugula?!?!
9_9

494 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:40:50pm

re: #484 cliffster

Everyone knows its rap that’s destroying our society.

Yeah, or hip-hop. I’ve been guilty of saying that before. I think it’s a “chicken and the egg” thing when you think about where that genre found its roots. However, if we look closely, violent crime rates are still on a downward trend in the USA.

495 Imploder  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:41:01pm

I have a job interview with the IRS on the 2nd of March in Phoenix. Maybe I should bring my bunker gear.

496 deadletterboy  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:41:21pm

re: #489 Killgore Trout

STOP TRYING TO BREAK MY BRAIN!

497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:41:36pm

re: #489 Killgore Trout

That one is left over from Hillary Clinton.
/

498 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:42:15pm

Fear the secular humanism!!!1111!

Oh brother.

499 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:42:21pm

re: #492 Jadespring

In a perfect world I would really like to use my real name. However after dealing with an internet issue with a crazy person that included harassment, death threats and trying to ‘track me down’ it’s not going to happen. A nickname gives at least some security to having to deal with that crap again.

Sorry to hear you had such problems.
I’ve experienced some very minor harassment/intimidation sorts of things, but it has not turned into a big problem.

500 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:42:24pm

re: #493 Varek Raith

Not without a decoder ring!

501 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:43:21pm

re: #495 Imploder

I have a job interview with the IRS on the 2nd of March in Phoenix. Maybe I should bring my bunker gear.

Sorry ,, bad taste, imho (especially seeing that they are still fighting the fire and going through the rubble in Austin and awaiting body/ injury count)

502 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:43:27pm

re: #494 Gus 802

Yeah, or hip-hop. I’ve been guilty of saying that before. I think it’s a “chicken and the egg” thing when you think about where that genre found its roots. However, if we look closely, violent crime rates are still on a downward trend in the USA.

The progression of blaming the actions of youth on certain media.
Books. TV. Comic books. Rock and Roll. TV, again. Video games. Hip Hop…etc
Utter nonsense.

503 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:43:34pm

re: #493 Varek Raith

What, no books on arugula?!?!
9_9

Definitely would be more edible than books on tape.

504 darthstar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:43:50pm

Want to see a bunch of fucking retards? Search for “Joe Stack” on facebook. Several fan pages up already…one using the burning federal building as its image…and still stupid fuckwads are joining.

505 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:44:00pm

re: #481 reine.de.tout

I’m stunned. Really.
I thought this was all behind us. I’m just speechless.

Actually I’m more surprised they’re not going after rap. I mean, does rock even exist anymore?

I’m hoping this is all saved because I can’t watch it until later.

506 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:44:10pm

Just read TPM’s analysis of Romney’s speech. Their take is that this was his unofficial kickoff to the 2012 campaign. I am at work so I wasn’t able to watch it live. Anyone here who saw the speech agree that he’s setting himself up for 2012?

507 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:44:24pm

New York Yankees pitcheres report to spring training !

BOOOOOOO,,,,GO RED SOX !!!

508 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:44:29pm

re: #499 reine.de.tout

Your real name is actually cool. Mine? Not so much.
:)

509 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:44:33pm

re: #484 cliffster

Everyone knows its rap that’s destroying our society.

Sorry. I didn’t mean to step on you!

510 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:44:34pm

re: #504 darthstar

Didn’t take long…

511 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:45:06pm

re: #502 Varek Raith

The progression of blaming the actions of youth on certain media.
Books. TV. Comic books. Rock and Roll. TV, again. Video games. Hip Hop…etc
Utter nonsense.

Yeah. They keep mistaking the symptom for the cause.

The cause of juvenile delinquency, juvenile crime, and all the rest of it is Juveniles.

512 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:45:07pm

re: #491 reine.de.tout

Some people lost their dingers for awhile
Other than that, not much.
/ / / /

I lost mine for three hours.

513 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:45:11pm

re: #507 sattv4u2

New York Yankees pitcheres report to spring training !

BOOO,,,GO RED SOX !!!

Oh man, how did I know that you were a sawx fan.

514 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:45:11pm

re: #507 sattv4u2

New York Yankees pitcheres report to spring training !

BOOO,,,GO RED SOX !!!

That’s Defending World Champion New York Yankees to you! *bwhahaha* (cue the Star Wars imperial march).

515 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:45:12pm

#502

Thos damnable rapscallions with their printing presses and moveable typesetting are the root of all evil.

516 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:45:30pm

Breaking ,,, IEAE may be working on warhead

517 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:45:54pm

re: #508 Varek Raith

Your real name is actually cool. Mine? Not so much.
:)

Your name is very cool. From Starcraft?

518 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:46:13pm

re: #504 darthstar

I think stupidity has its own set of physical values. Like a gravitational constant. A gunk of stupidity is generated, and other stupidity is automatically attracted to it.

519 darthstar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:46:24pm

re: #510 lawhawk

Didn’t take long…

It never does…

520 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:46:39pm

re: #508 Varek Raith

Your real name is actually cool. Mine? Not so much.
:)

Varek Raith?
Sounds pretty cool to me.
Like some sort of space critter.

521 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:46:47pm

re: #516 sattv4u2

Breaking ,,, IEAE may be working on warhead

Breaking, Captain Obvious, with his sidekick Lt. Duh, saves reporters from hard work.
;)

522 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:46:50pm

re: #499 reine.de.tout

Sorry to hear you had such problems.
I’ve experienced some very minor harassment/intimidation sorts of things, but it has not turned into a big problem.

Well it happened a number of years ago and seemed to be just random nutcase. The whole thing started over the comment I made about growing tomatoes. The creep factor in it was huge considering the benign nature of the subject and it made me just generally cautious ever since.

523 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:47:19pm

re: #513 drcordell

Oh man, how did I know that you were a sawx fan.

Perhaps because
A) I’ve stated it any number of times here
and
B) stated that I was born and raised and spent 45+ years in Boston

524 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:47:53pm

re: #520 reine.de.tout

I meant my real name. Varek Raith has been just about everything from an Elven wizard to a Sith Lord.
Geek alert! :)

525 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:47:53pm

re: #502 Varek Raith

The progression of blaming the actions of youth on certain media.
Books. TV. Comic books. Rock and Roll. TV, again. Video games. Hip Hop…etc
Utter nonsense.

I blame country music.

/

526 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:48:11pm

Oooh, “indefatigable” again, this time for the “ageless” Schlafley.

527 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:48:26pm

re: #489 Killgore Trout

Proof of socialism: Books!
Photo Evidence: Michelle Obama Keeps Socialist Books In The White House Library
OMG!

OK, I will do my part to nip the meme in the bud:

Nathan Glazer, author of the book on Communism depicted on the picture, is a well-known anti-communist intellectual from the original “neoconservative” social/political circle with Daniel Bell, Irving Kristol, and Patrick Moynihan.

528 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:48:32pm

re: #525 Gus 802

I blame country music.

/

That, or disco.

529 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:48:37pm

re: #525 Gus 802

I blame country music.

/

Don’t forget to blame western too. Most places have both.

530 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:48:58pm

re: #526 wrenchwench

Oooh, “indefatigable” again, this time for the “ageless” Schlafley.

So much more polite than “of a certain age”, I think.

531 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:49:22pm

re: #529 oaktree

Don’t forget to blame western too. Most places have both.

The pedal steel guitar is nothing but the shrieking cry of the debil!1111

/

532 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:49:44pm

re: #526 wrenchwench

Oooh, “indefatigable” again, this time for the “ageless” Schlafley.

I still can’t say that word.

533 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:49:47pm

re: #523 sattv4u2

Perhaps because
A) I’ve stated it any number of times here
and
B) stated that I was born and raised and spent 45+ years in Boston

Ah, well I must not have noticed. What I meant was, without being informed of your allegiance, I would have guessed you were a member of sawx nation. Call it a hunch.

534 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:50:21pm

re: #517 marjoriemoon

Your name is very cool. From Starcraft?

Nope, I listed various first and last names that sounded neat, and rolled the dice.
Such a geek, I am. :)

535 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:50:48pm

re: #525 Gus 802

I blame country music.

I blame Nickelback.

536 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:50:53pm

re: #394 subsailor68

Hi Obdicut! Yep. CRA’s were certainly responsible for part of the meltdown, but as you note those non-bank folks need a good “whuppin’ as well.

;-)

I would like to see one, just one, documented instance of a bank issuing a mortgage to someone with no job because the CRA made them do it.

Just one.

537 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:51:00pm

#524

There have been more than a few Kragar’s in various RPG settings out there.

538 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:51:08pm

re: #532 reine.de.tout

I still can’t say that word.

Emphasis on the fat. No long vowels.

539 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:51:14pm

re: #532 reine.de.tout

I still can’t say that word.

Emphasis on the “fat”. You can mumble the rest.

540 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:51:23pm

re: #527 Stanley Sea

OK, I will do my part to nip the meme in the bud:

Nathan Glazer, author of the book on Communism depicted on the picture, is a well-known anti-communist intellectual from the original “neoconservative” social/political circle with Daniel Bell, Irving Kristol, and Patrick Moynihan.

Don’t go screwing around with people’s outrage with actual facts and information!
Who do you think you are?

541 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:51:23pm

re: #512 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If you have a problem with your dinger for more than 3 hours… you should probably go see a doctor. ///////////// [ducking]

542 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:51:36pm

re: #535 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I blame Nickelback.

Because they’re Canadian!

543 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:51:53pm

re: #516 sattv4u2

Breaking ,,, IEAE may be working on warhead

Why does the UN want their own nuke?

544 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:51:59pm

re: #521 Varek Raith

Breaking, Captain Obvious, with his sidekick Lt. Duh, saves reporters from hard work.
;)

reuters.com

545 darthstar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:52:04pm

re: #526 wrenchwench

Oooh, “indefatigable” again, this time for the “ageless” Schlafley.

True story…when I was young and REALLY stupid, I was asked in one of my first college classes to write an essay about who was more pro-woman: Phyllis Schaffley or Betty Friedan. As I was raised by wing-nuts, I assumed Phyllis as she believed in a woman’s place in the home, family, etc. and Friedan was talking about the workplace, and other such nonsense… Okay…this is more embarrassing than I remember. I’m going to go hang my head in shame now.

546 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:52:17pm

re: #543 RogueOne

They want in the club too!

547 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:52:25pm

re: #534 Varek Raith

That’s like coming up with a secret agent name like “Kevlar Ottoman”. (Friend of mine did that in some RPG way back when by random selecting words from a book.

Speaking of RPG that let you come up with good names, ever hear of a game called _Spirit of the Century_?

548 darthstar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:52:31pm

re: #543 RogueOne

Why does the UN want their own nuke?

Everyone else has one.

549 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:52:58pm

re: #539 wrenchwench

Emphasis on the “fat”. You can mumble the rest.

See, I’d have said that as “fa - tig”, not “fat - ig”.

550 darthstar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:53:13pm

re: #545 darthstar

Schlafly…PIMF…ugh.

551 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:53:24pm

re: #466 Gus 802

This guy quotes Patrick Buchanan!

In the original German?

552 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:53:27pm

re: #544 sattv4u2

[Link: www.reuters.com…]

Yeah, I know. It’s just wierd that the media seem shocked by this. My reaction was, “Duh, of course they’re working on deliverable nuclear warheads!”

553 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:54:15pm

re: #543 RogueOne

Why does the UN want their own nuke?

three words

New
World
Order

/

554 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:54:17pm

re: #546 Rightwingconspirator

re: #548 darthstar

Strongly worded letters of rebuke go over much better when stapled to an incoming missile.

555 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:54:31pm

Outta here ,,,, too much work to do before I venture out on the cold lonely trek home

556 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:54:36pm

re: #547 oaktree

That’s like coming up with a secret agent name like “Kevlar Ottoman”. (Friend of mine did that in some RPG way back when by random selecting words from a book.

Speaking of RPG that let you come up with good names, ever hear of a game called _Spirit of the Century_?

No, looks neat though.

557 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:54:54pm

I wonder if they got permission from the band “King of Leon” for that last musical segment.

Alternative rock band that they are — irony.

558 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:55:04pm

re: #545 darthstar

True story…when I was young and REALLY stupid, I was asked in one of my first college classes to write an essay about who was more pro-woman: Phyllis Schaffley or Betty Friedan. As I was raised by wing-nuts, I assumed Phyllis as she believed in a woman’s place in the home, family, etc. and Friedan was talking about the workplace, and other such nonsense… Okay…this is more embarrassing than I remember. I’m going to go hang my head in shame now.

That’s ok, I was raised by moonbats. And yet, my mom, who is almost as old as Betty Friedan, said she’d vote for ANY woman over any man, yes—even Schlafly. I think it was my first political argument with her.

559 Imploder  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:55:31pm

re: #557 Gus 802

I wonder if they got permission from the band “King of Leon” for that last musical segment.

Alternative rock band that they are — irony.


Was it, “Sex on Fire?”

560 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:55:33pm

re: #556 Varek Raith

The character generation is half the fun.

Also the first system where I came up with a workable/playable character who’s primary skill was that he was a very good chef.

:)

561 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:56:18pm
562 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:56:29pm

re: #560 oaktree

The character generation is half the fun.

Also the first system where I came up with a workable/playable character who’s primary skill was that he was a very good chef.

:)

Sounds neat.

563 Gus  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:56:59pm

re: #559 Imploder

Was it, “Sex on Fire?”

It was “Use Somebody.”

564 Kragar  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:57:29pm

A buddy of mine played a character named Bob in every RPG he ever played, all with the exact same appearance. Our various GMs later joked about it and brought in cross game references which led to the great Star Wars/Cyberpunk/D+D quest, “The search for the one true Bob.”

565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:58:20pm

re: #561 cliffster

You playin’ Fiddy? WTF (why the face)?

566 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:58:27pm

re: #545 darthstar

re: #558 wrenchwench

Wow.
I had a really dull life.
My parents formed their opinions on issues based on their personal moral compasses and available information, completely apart from whether it was “conservative” or “liberal”. Though they did tend to be conservative.

567 cliffster  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:59:34pm

re: #565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You playin’ Fiddy? WTF (why the face)?

G-Unit!

568 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:59:35pm

You know even if the first lady was reading a Socialist book, why make a big deal of it. Don’t people ever wonder why Communism had appeal to people? I will readily admit having read some of the Communist Manifesto for both a philosophy and nationalism in Eastern Europe class that it is boring and dry as hell but it was still at least intilaly a provoking read since as we know how influential Marx has been throughout history.

569 Imploder  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:59:42pm

re: #566 reine.de.tout

Hahahhaha. See some old tea party guys on TV, my dad is likely in there.

570 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:59:51pm

re: #566 reine.de.tout

re: #558 wrenchwench

Wow.
I had a really dull life.
My parents formed their opinions on issues based on their personal moral compasses and available information, completely apart from whether it was “conservative” or “liberal”. Though they did tend to be conservative.

My dad is a democrat and a Glenn Beck fan. Yeah, I don’t get it, either.
:confused:

571 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 12:59:57pm

re: #566 reine.de.tout

I never knew until I was grown the political leanings of my parents.

I became a conservative…

Boy, are they pissed.

(WV mountain people/coal mining lineage)….

572 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:00:55pm

re: #536 garhighway

I would like to see one, just one, documented instance of a bank issuing a mortgage to someone with no job because the CRA made them do it.

Just one.

Hi garhighway. I don’t think anyone posited the notion that banks (or non-banks) issued mortgages to a person who had no job, so that may be a bit of a straw man. However, here’s one article on the ability of the CRA to “encourage” compliance:

Business Insider

And the article does cite a specific example - the Shawmut National Corporation and its dealing with the Fed under CRA.

As Obdicut noted above, CRA wasn’t the prime problem with toxic mortgages, but certainly was at least part of the overall issue.

;-)

573 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:01:18pm

I think this Dad might be taking his job a little too seriously:


NAVARRE, Fla. — A Northwest Florida father is accused of shooting his daughter’s boyfriend in the groin.

William Russell Kelly Jr. was charged Monday with aggravated battery with intent to cause bodily harm or disability. He was taken to Santa Rosa County Jail and released later that day on $20,000 bond.

The 48-year-old Kelly told police he shot 29-year-old Randall Carter to protect his daughter. His 18-year-old daughter told police her father “hates” her boyfriend.

Her father hates her boyfriend is the under-statment of the year thus far.

palmbeachpost.com

574 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:01:31pm

re: #571 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I never knew until I was grown the political leanings of my parents.

I became a conservative…

Boy, are they pissed.

(WV mountain people/coal mining lineage)…

(kentucky mountain people/coal mining lineage, mixed with a New Orleans belle).

575 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:02:23pm

re: #568 HappyWarrior

You know even if the first lady was reading a Socialist book, why make a big deal of it. Don’t people ever wonder why Communism had appeal to people? I will readily admit having read some of the Communist Manifesto for both a philosophy and nationalism in Eastern Europe class that it is boring and dry as hell but it was still at least intilaly a provoking read since as we know how influential Marx has been throughout history.

Because books with different sorts of thoughts in them are evil. When you read a book the thoughts go right into your head and take over your brain. You have no control over this. It’s a law of nature.


//

576 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:03:02pm

re: #572 subsailor68

I’m really not saying it was part of the overall issue, though. Some loans are always going to be defaulted on. CRA loans were defaulted on at a lower rate than comparable subprime loans. So I’m kind of saying the opposite.

The real, real, real trigger for the meltdown was the packaging and the swaps. Every single mortgage could have crashed and burned at once and it would have been bad, but it was only terrible fucking horrible because of the packaging and reselling— which has nothing to do with the original loans.

577 Imploder  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:04:00pm

re: #568 HappyWarrior

You know even if the first lady was reading a Socialist book, why make a big deal of it. Don’t people ever wonder why Communism had appeal to people? I will readily admit having read some of the Communist Manifesto for both a philosophy and nationalism in Eastern Europe class that it is boring and dry as hell but it was still at least intilaly a provoking read since as we know how influential Marx has been throughout history.

Many people don’t know that Marx was trained as an economist. Economists observe the world in the context of incentives, monetary and otherwise. As an aside, I went to Marx’s childhood home. He was German, from Trier, many people don’t know that either.

I don’t have much use for communism, but it is definitely interesting to study its genesis.

578 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:04:38pm

Not sure if Walter is still here, but I figured he would be glad to know that I just called the NY State Unemployment Fraud Hotline to report my former employer. I normally don’t like tattling, but I didn’t do it of my own accord, I was FORCED!

579 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:05:19pm

re: #578 drcordell

Not sure if Walter is still here, but I figured he would be glad to know that I just called the NY State Unemployment Fraud Hotline to report my former employer. I normally don’t like tattling, but I didn’t do it of my own accord, I was FORCED!

Wow!
Good move, imo!
Can’t frikken believe I’m in agreement with you for a second time today.
I must be sick or something.

580 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:05:25pm

Interesting to see people of mining stock here. My great grandfathers on my mom’s side were immigrants from Eastern Europe were miners about 50-75 miles east or so of Pittsburgh. My parents have always been pretty liberal but my dad especially I remember would play devil’s advocate with me and do it well. I appreciate that because while I realized I would never agree with most conservative positions I could at least understand the reason why someone thought a certain way.

581 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:06:28pm

re: #576 Obdicut

I’m really not saying it was part of the overall issue, though. Some loans are always going to be defaulted on. CRA loans were defaulted on at a lower rate than comparable subprime loans. So I’m kind of saying the opposite.

The real, real, real trigger for the meltdown was the packaging and the swaps. Every single mortgage could have crashed and burned at once and it would have been bad, but it was only terrible fucking horrible because of the packaging and reselling— which has nothing to do with the original loans.

Hmmm…I guess I’m not following part of your point. If the MBS were based on the mortgages, and the CDS were “insuring’ the MBS packages, wouldn’t it follow that the trigger would be the default on the mortgages (and I’ll buy your point about defaulting at a lower rate than other subprimes - it’s the overall “subprime” concept that sucked for sure)?

582 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:06:43pm

re: #579 reine.de.tout

Wow!
Good move, imo!
Can’t frikken believe I’m in agreement with you for a second time today.
I must be sick or something.

Like I always say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again. Or if you don’t like nuts, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

583 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:07:55pm

re: #579 reine.de.tout

I firmly believe Cordell has a good heart but a short fuse.

Please don’t prove me wrong, Cordell.

584 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:08:38pm

re: #582 drcordell

Like I always say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again. Or if you don’t like nuts, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

You’re not half bad when you’re not cursing and making assumptions about what people say.
Really.
There’s a clue there somewhere, maybe.

585 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:09:07pm

re: #583 Obdicut

I firmly believe Cordell has a good heart but a short fuse.

Please don’t prove me wrong, Cordell.

(shhh - don’t tell cordell - I agree).

586 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:09:47pm

re: #577 Imploder

Many people don’t know that Marx was trained as an economist. Economists observe the world in the context of incentives, monetary and otherwise. As an aside, I went to Marx’s childhood home. He was German, from Trier, many people don’t know that either.

I don’t have much use for communism, but it is definitely interesting to study its genesis.

Honestly, until you said that I had no idea he was an economist by training. I think we also have to understand when Marx was writing too. The Manifesto was published in 1848 at the height of the Industrial Revolution and it was a time before we had many things today that we take for granted. My history professor was pointing out that Marx supported banning child labor, more sane work hours, etc. All stuff today that we take for granted but at that time it wasn’t so clear whether those things should be changed. Curious though but what part of Germany is Trier in? I was in Germany a couple years back: Berlin, Munich, and Heidelberg for myself and enjoying Munich the most because of their excellent beer.

587 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:09:55pm

re: #583 Obdicut

I firmly believe Cordell has a good heart but a short fuse.

Please don’t prove me wrong, Cordell.

Cordell rocks!

Btw, to whom do I complain about the DMV???

588 HoosierHoops  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:09:59pm

re: #525 Gus 802

I blame country music.

/

Polka brought down Western Civilization…

589 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:11:16pm

re: #587 marjoriemoon

Cordell rocks!

Btw, to whom do I complain about the DMV???

The top guy, the head honcho.
Now, if your complaint has to do with laws and regulations that you don’t like and that the clerks can do nothing about, you need to complain to your legislature.

590 webevintage  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:11:43pm

Gotta go to the post office and keep the economy working by shipping off some vintage to happy customers around the globe.

Dad’s a yellow dog democrat old school union shop steward who’s a bit racist but voted for Obama anyway.
(I mean I love him cause he’s my dad, but I never brought my black boyfriend home)
Mom is agnostic when it comes to politics.
I’m a dirty lib and my hubby is a crazy Dem who blames all the evil in the world on republicans.
Yeah, I hate watching the news with him.

591 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:12:53pm

re: #590 webevintage

Gotta go to the post office and keep the economy working by shipping off some vintage to happy customers around the globe.

Dad’s a yellow dog democrat old school union shop steward who’s a bit racist but voted for Obama anyway.
(I mean I love him cause he’s my dad, but I never brought my black boyfriend home)
Mom is agnostic when it comes to politics.
I’m a dirty lib and my hubby is a crazy Dem who blames all the evil in the world on republicans.
Yeah, I hate watching the news with him.

What kind of vintage stuff do you sell? Clothes, furniture, cars? I’m hoping for the latter but I’m sure my girlfriend would be excited about the former.

592 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:13:11pm

re: #588 HoosierHoops

Polka brought down Western Civilization…

Hey Hoops! Well! Obviously you’ve never been to a good ol’ western square dance. I mean, think about it. A whole bunch of people walking around in a circle, or dosey-doin’ - all because some guy up front with a microphone tells ‘em to. The end of Democracy!

593 HoosierHoops  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:13:12pm

re: #590 webevintage

Vintage? wine? Got a web site?

594 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:13:12pm

re: #589 reine.de.tout

Youtube Video

595 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:13:16pm

re: #581 subsailor68

No, it’s not the default on the mortage. It’s the fact that that mortgage now represents an entirely different investment. I don’t really know how to put it, but here’s a quick analogy:

I lend you $20, even though I know you have money issues, and we live in a town with only one large employer

I lend seven hundred other people $20, even though I know they have money issues and we live in a town with only one large employer.

I package all of those loans together and sell them to someone else, as a low-risk investment because what are the odds of all those people having money trouble at the same time?

Then the plant closes. The loans aren’t going to be paid back. The people who invested in them are going to lose all their money.

So, assigning the ‘trigger’ is tricky. You could say the trigger was you not paying me back, but that’s really the least problematic part. The problematic part is the whole thing being set up on the false idea that the risk of default was something that was lower the more people you had in the pool, instead of defaults being something that can happen in massive waves. Mortgages are the exact wrong thing to package like that.

Or, to put it another way: the giving of the loan was the trigger than started it all. But what made the meltdown so terrible was the way everything was packaged.

596 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:13:43pm

re: #572 subsailor68

Hi garhighway. I don’t think anyone posited the notion that banks (or non-banks) issued mortgages to a person who had no job, so that may be a bit of a straw man. However, here’s one article on the ability of the CRA to “encourage” compliance:

Business Insider

And the article does cite a specific example - the Shawmut National Corporation and its dealing with the Fed under CRA.

As Obdicut noted above, CRA wasn’t the prime problem with toxic mortgages, but certainly was at least part of the overall issue.

;-)

Yesterday, in a thread here, someone posited exactly that.

My best understanding of the residential mortgage crisis is that it was primarily fueled by non-bank lending (Countrywide, New Century, and the like) that was securitized onto the books of the big houses as RMBS’s. I have seen nothing from any credible economic source that indicates that the crap paper that blew up Bear, Lehman, Merrill and Citi (and which, coupled with Paulson bungling the Lehman failure caused the freeze in the credit markets in 9/08, the initiation of TARP, and what followed) was based on bank-originated mortgages. It was non-bank (and therefore non-CRA) paper.

I leave out of this the Fannie and Freddie debacles, which I believe had their own distinct origins.

597 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:13:55pm

re: #527 Stanley Sea

OK, I will do my part to nip the meme in the bud:

Nathan Glazer, author of the book on Communism depicted on the picture, is a well-known anti-communist intellectual from the original “neoconservative” social/political circle with Daniel Bell, Irving Kristol, and Patrick Moynihan.

RINO!
/

598 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:14:01pm

re: #595 Obdicut

And sub, I’m on antibiotics, so sorry for any incoherence.

599 zora  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:15:57pm

re: #590 webevintage

your hubby sounds alot like mine. news watching is the same in my house. my kids have slytherin names for all of the notable republicans.

600 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:16:45pm

re: #595 Obdicut

No, it’s not the default on the mortage. It’s the fact that that mortgage now represents an entirely different investment. I don’t really know how to put it, but here’s a quick analogy:

I lend you $20, even though I know you have money issues, and we live in a town with only one large employer

I lend seven hundred other people $20, even though I know they have money issues and we live in a town with only one large employer.

I package all of those loans together and sell them to someone else, as a low-risk investment because what are the odds of all those people having money trouble at the same time?

Then the plant closes. The loans aren’t going to be paid back. The people who invested in them are going to lose all their money.

So, assigning the ‘trigger’ is tricky. You could say the trigger was you not paying me back, but that’s really the least problematic part. The problematic part is the whole thing being set up on the false idea that the risk of default was something that was lower the more people you had in the pool, instead of defaults being something that can happen in massive waves. Mortgages are the exact wrong thing to package like that.

Or, to put it another way: the giving of the loan was the trigger than started it all. But what made the meltdown so terrible was the way everything was packaged.

Also, the fact that all of the great minds who invented these exotic securities thought they had been able to completely separate the risk component out of the securities. Because they tied everything together with OTC derivative hedges and all sorts of other insanity, they truly believed that the “risk” of everything going belly up had been parceled away to some other schmuck. Of course, when the shit hit the fan they realized that schmuck was actually a vitally important counter-party. And that’s when everything imploded.

601 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:17:06pm

re: #589 reine.de.tout

The top guy, the head honcho.
Now, if your complaint has to do with laws and regulations that you don’t like and that the clerks can do nothing about, you need to complain to your legislature.

Hmm…. State agency yes? That would be my Senator.

I don’t have a lot of hope. I’ve been twice and I can’t get my license renewed. I have another appointment in March.

I don’t want to bore you with details, but from start to finish, it was a f*king disaster. And I still have to go back.

602 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:17:06pm

re: #595 Obdicut

Or, to put it another way: the giving of the loan was the trigger than started it all. But what made the meltdown so terrible was the way everything was packaged.

Ah! Got where you were going with that. Yep, I can agree with the trigger being the giving of the loan. In kind of an oblique way, we were saying similar things. But I’ll give ya’ the thumbs-up on the issuing being the actual trigger. All I needed to do was take one step back in the process.

BTW, don’t know what antibiotics you’re on, but you’re doing just fine coherence-wise!

;-)

603 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:17:19pm

re: #600 drcordell

It was crazy. Risk doesn’t go away. It just doesn’t. You can’t voodoo it out of the equation.

604 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:18:20pm

re: #603 Obdicut

It was crazy. Risk doesn’t go away. It just doesn’t. You can’t voodoo it out of the equation.

But you certainly can sell someone an asset you know is risky, and then short sell it behind their back! U-S-A! U-S-A!

605 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:18:59pm

re: #594 Varek Raith

[Video]

hahaha!
My first job evah was with the DMV.
It was not an easy job.
But I do understand people’s frustrations.

606 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:19:32pm

re: #596 garhighway

Yesterday, in a thread here, someone posited exactly that.

Oops! Wasn’t here to see that thread - or that post. Hmm…I’d have been right there with you asking whoever that was for a link. As bad as all this mess is, I too have never heard of a bank, or non-bank, giving a loan to somebody with NO job.

Of course, with the bone-headed decisions by just about everyone involved, I guess I wouldn’t be surprised. Sigh.

;-)

607 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:19:43pm

re: #601 marjoriemoon

Hmm… State agency yes? That would be my Senator.

I don’t have a lot of hope. I’ve been twice and I can’t get my license renewed. I have another appointment in March.

I don’t want to bore you with details, but from start to finish, it was a f*king disaster. And I still have to go back.

Oh, bore me!
What happened?

608 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:20:09pm

re: #604 drcordell

There were also cases of one arm of an investment house buying, in the end, the packages another arm of the investment house put together.

Selling themselves toxic assets.

But yeah, one of the worst things is that there are tons and tons of people who make buckets of money off of the meltdown, and they were the ones most to blame for it.

609 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:20:53pm

re: #608 Obdicut

There were also cases of one arm of an investment house buying, in the end, the packages another arm of the investment house put together.

Selling themselves toxic assets.

But yeah, one of the worst things is that there are tons and tons of people who make buckets of money off of the meltdown, and they were the ones most to blame for it.

And some of these folks are getting bonuses in the thousands, while people lose their homes.
Sick.

610 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:21:21pm

re: #498 Gus 802

Fear the secular humanism!!!1111!

Oh brother.

Doubt any of ‘em actually know any secular humanists.

611 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:21:33pm

re: #595 Obdicut

The trigger on the CDS’s was the decline in the value of the underlying securities. If a swap is insuring a RBMS, and that RBMS declines in value, the holder of the swap is generally entitled to the posting of cash collateral. That collateral requirement is quite independent from the default rate on the underlying security. And the collateral requirement of the swap can also be triggered by financial events at the swap’s issuer.

As the mortgage bubble began to burst, RBMS’s became toxic: they had no ascertainable market value because there was no market for them: there were no buyers. That triggered collateral requirements on the swaps insuring them, which is a short way of describing what happened to AIG.

But what happened to Bear, Lehman, Merrill and Citi was more about the RMBS’s, not swaps.

612 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:21:46pm

re: #609 reine.de.tout

And some of these folks are getting bonuses in the thousands, while people lose their homes.
Sick.

Yep. But unfortunately it’s not thousands, it’s millions.

613 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:22:34pm

re: #580 HappyWarrior

Interesting to see people of mining stock here. My great grandfathers on my mom’s side were immigrants from Eastern Europe were miners about 50-75 miles east or so of Pittsburgh. My parents have always been pretty liberal but my dad especially I remember would play devil’s advocate with me and do it well. I appreciate that because while I realized I would never agree with most conservative positions I could at least understand the reason why someone thought a certain way.

Can you supply a town name? My father’s family is from that region of the state. Some of the ancestors came into the area from Virginia in the early 1700s and settled near Blue Knob.

614 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:23:15pm

re: #612 drcordell

Yep. But unfortunately it’s not thousands, it’s millions.

I have no problem with “the wealthy” paying whatever tax is due on whatever sort of income they have and trying to keep their money.

But this “bonus” scheme is obscene.

615 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:26:27pm

re: #611 garhighway

Thanks for clarification and correction.

616 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:27:58pm

re: #606 subsailor68

Yesterday, in a thread here, someone posited exactly that.

Oops! Wasn’t here to see that thread - or that post. Hmm…I’d have been right there with you asking whoever that was for a link. As bad as all this mess is, I too have never heard of a bank, or non-bank, giving a loan to somebody with NO job.

Of course, with the bone-headed decisions by just about everyone involved, I guess I wouldn’t be surprised. Sigh.

;-)

They were called “NINJA loans”, for “No Job No Income or Assets”.

I saw a stat a while back about the percentage of sub-prime loans that were made to people that didn’t have a fixed address prior to taking out the loan. I recall that number to be in the thirties.

Is that insane? Of course. But the people making the loan (Countrywide, et al) didn’t care, because they weren’t holding that loan on their books. So long as they had guys like Citi there to snatch those loans up and securitize them, they didn’t bear the default risk, and therefore they didn’t care about loan quality. They got a nice fee for originating the loan. And the securitizers created incentives to issue more toxic loans: they wanted loans with harsh pre-payment penalties and crazy escalators because those were more attractive to the buyers of the RMBS’s.

None of that behavior was driven by the CRA.

617 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:29:26pm

A little something released today, thought it might be of interest to some:


First, ACORN and SEIU‘s illegal agreements, and the crimes committed in furtherance of these agreements, constitutes a criminal conspiracy.

ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis, Executive Director Steven Kest, and Political Operations Director Zach Polett have actual or apparent authority for ACORN’s illegal acts. The Committee’s investigation has confirmed previous findings as well as identified a method behind ACORN’s criminal activities.

Second, there is a pattern, signature or “trade secret” of corruption common to all ACORN affiliates called “Muscle for the Money.”
Muscle for the Money involves using non-profit corporations for electioneering activities and an SEIU strategy to threaten corporations and banks into brokering deals for ACORN’s financial benefit. SEIU and Project Vote used litigation to force demands from government officials. ACORN, through Project Vote, threatened State Secretary of State offices with lawsuits, thus forcing political compromises at the expense of taxpayers.
SEIU and ACORN are substantially intertwined. SEIU and ACORN jointly manage SEIU Local 100; SEIU Healthcare Illinois Indiana; SEIU Local 21A; SEIU Local 32BJ; SEIU Local 52BJ; SEIU Local 880; and SEIU Local 1199. SEIU aided and encouraged ACORN to put pressure on banks, to use its federally-funded affiliates to target political candidates, and to threaten public officials with litigation. ACORN took the lead in these activities and SEIU was the willing accomplice.

The Committee investigation found ACORN prepared for these fraudulent activities by issuing membership letters documenting which banks caved-in to ACORN’s pressure; through political plans targeting congressional districts to get sympathetic candidates elected, and via emails and legal complaints reflecting ACORN’s ability to coerce and compel public officials to meet certain demands. These findings reflect a pattern, signature or trade secret common to all ACORN affiliates. This signature crime is known as Muscle for the Money.
ACORN has received $5,609,338.00 dollars from SEIU. Anthony Hill, a State Senator from Florida, was simultaneously employed by SEIU and ACORN. Newly reviewed documents show Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO), former Governor Rod Blagojevich (D-IL), and Congressman Gerry Connolly (D-VA) have received the support of SEIU’s ACORN affiliates. Insiders claim that, despite SEIU Treasurer Anna Burger’s statement to the contrary, SEIU has never cut ties to ACORN.

Third, ACORN, as a corporation, is responsible for thousands of fraudulent voter registrations throughout the United States.
Responses from various state election offices show that ACORN’s late filings of voter registration cards and the sheer amount of fraudulent cards obstructed election administration efforts in many states. Fraudulent voter registrations are not isolated incidents; they reflect ACORN’s criminal motive to compromise the system of free and fair elections promised in the Constitution of the United States.

Fourth, ACORN contributed to the risky lending that led to the financial collapse.
ACORN drafted language to loosen underwriting standards and decrease down payments in the housing industry, paving the way for the high rate of subprime loans millions of Americans eventually defaulted on.
ACORN used provisions in the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 that allowed community groups to challenge bank mergers and acquisitions if a bank did not adequately invest in its own community. These challenges, which featured ACORN’s standard intimidation tactics, successfully forced banks to make lending agreements with ACORN Housing.

618 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:29:35pm

re: #613 oaktree

Can you supply a town name? My father’s family is from that region of the state. Some of the ancestors came into the area from Virginia in the early 1700s and settled near Blue Knob.

Johnstown, I am sure you know it since its flood in 1889 is famous and I just realized that Johnstown is northeast of Pittsburgh agh sorry about that. Funny though that your family moved from Virginia since that’s where my family ended up. My dad’s dad had a government job and settled outside of DC right around when my dad was born. My mom’s dad had no desire to work in the damned mines and ended up helping building Northern Va in to what it is today. A funny story is that my mom’s dad was my dad’s foreman on a construction job about seven years or so before my parents actually met. Apparently my grandfather was a hardass on the job and I believe it since I helped him out a few times myself.

619 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:30:31pm

Well all, time to head out and run errands. Thanks for the great conversation, and I hope everyone has a terrific evening!

620 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:32:35pm

re: #617 Guanxi88

Good grief!

621 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:32:39pm

re: #607 reine.de.tout

Oh, bore me!
What happened?

Really?? You may regret this. LOL

First, the place is attached to a courthouse. You have to go through the metal detector. Three men went in front of me in line. When I looked at them, they had police badges. Ok, they were cops. I didn’t say anything. Then this woman pushes past me. “Excuse me!” I yelled, 3x, she didn’t even look at me. The detector lady tells me, “She’s an employee.” Ok, that makes sense yes? She went out to have a f*ing cigarette, I pay her salary and bennies I only WISH I had and I have to wait on her ass. OK.

They don’t have chairs. Now, I had a hard time standing for an hour, but what about 1/3 of the people there who are over 65? The little old lady behind me starts telling me that this is her second time there. The first time, she almost passed out from standing 2 hours and when the man in front of her caught her as she was falling, the police told her she had to leave the building. Which was why she was back in the appointment line for “only” an hour standing. I offered to go find her a chair, but then she got called.

I didn’t pass my eye test last time because of a cataract, but I had the surgery. At the time, the woman gave me a piece of paper for the doctor to mark which line I could read. You can’t read with a cataract. You need a new lens. The doctor told me the paper was useless. Anyway, I was told I did not have to make an appointment, just return when I had the surgery. I did today and was 1) turned away because I didn’t make an appt, and 2) I didn’t have the paper the doctor didn’t need to sign.

I went to work and made an appointment for March.

622 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:32:41pm

Huh. Rachael Maddow is there with nice things to say.

Maddow said she’s been invited in the past and praised CPAC for opening the door to media that are not exactly sympathetic to the cause.

“They’ve made very overt efforts in years past, even when they weren’t nearly as big a deal on the political scene, with outreach to talk radio, including progressive talk radio,” Maddow said.

“I do appreciate the way they’ve been unafraid in terms of the media that they’ve invited,” she continued. “I think that’s one of the things CPAC’s done right. I’ve always had a lot of respect for them for that.”

Some other events on the right, she said, haven’t been so open to left-leaning press.

“You see it now at a lot of conservative events happening now, GOP events and conservative events where they’re closed to the media or [open just to] handpicked media, and that’s an embarrassment,” she said. “CPAC’s never been like that.”

623 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:33:29pm

re: #618 HappyWarrior

Ah. Quite familiar with Johnstown since three of my four aunts lived in/near it for quite a few years. One in Eastmont, one in Westmont, and one in Geistown. They were all originally from Portage.

624 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:33:51pm

re: #620 reine.de.tout

Good grief!

Yep, and it’s from the House, not Beck.

625 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:35:29pm

re: #617 Guanxi88

zzzzZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz. Call me when you put your pimp outfit on and start taping.

626 AlexRogan  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:35:35pm

re: #13 Charles

Excuse me?

Robert Bluey was “one of the first to expose the Rathergate memos?”

In which world was that?

They are trying to revise history and write you and LGF out of anything significant over the past decade, because you “went off the reservation”, so to speak.

/bunch of petty bastards…

627 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:36:06pm

re: #625 drcordell

zzzZZZzzzZZZzzz. Call me when you put your pimp outfit on and start taping.

Well, Halloween’s not till later….

628 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:36:14pm

re: #617 Guanxi88

B.. Bu… But they were found not guilty!

///

629 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:39:16pm

re: #623 oaktree

Ah. Quite familiar with Johnstown since three of my four aunts lived in/near it for quite a few years. One in Eastmont, one in Westmont, and one in Geistown. They were all originally from Portage.

My great aunt and uncle lived in Westmont actually. That’s where we would stay when I would go there with my mom and grandparents as a kid. I remember my grandparents telling me about the 1936 flood and how my great grandmother was pregnant with my great aunt when it happened. It’s amazing she made it out okay. The diversity of the Eastern Europe ethnicities is cool too since I love Eastern European food. The pierogis and kielbasa were much better up that way because they were homemade.

630 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:39:19pm

re: #625 drcordell

zzzZZZzzzZZZzzz. Call me when you put your pimp outfit on and start taping.

re: #627 Guanxi88

Well, Halloween’s not till later…

And my orange velvet suit with the lime-green collar is still at the cleaners, so it may be a while yet.

631 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:39:55pm

re: #328 Jadespring

You mean like I read on one forum that these things are on the list for reasons to impeach? That kind of built up?

//

Please tell me that the sarc tags mean that’s not true…

632 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:40:05pm

re: #627 Guanxi88

Well, Halloween’s not till later…

Honestly though, I am trying to load the PDF right now on my crap work computer and it’s struggling mightily. The jist of the report is that the SEIU and ACORN colluded to what? Empower wage slaves?

633 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:40:49pm

re: #622 Rightwingconspirator

Huh. Rachael Maddow is there with nice things to say.

Maddow said she’s been invited in the past and praised CPAC for opening the door to media that are not exactly sympathetic to the cause.

“They’ve made very overt efforts in years past, even when they weren’t nearly as big a deal on the political scene, with outreach to talk radio, including progressive talk radio,” Maddow said.

“I do appreciate the way they’ve been unafraid in terms of the media that they’ve invited,” she continued. “I think that’s one of the things CPAC’s done right. I’ve always had a lot of respect for them for that.”

Some other events on the right, she said, haven’t been so open to left-leaning press.

“You see it now at a lot of conservative events happening now, GOP events and conservative events where they’re closed to the media or [open just to] handpicked media, and that’s an embarrassment,” she said. “CPAC’s never been like that.”

As always, the comments at Politico are juvenile and crass.

634 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:41:16pm

re: #632 drcordell

Honestly though, I am trying to load the PDF right now on my crap work computer and it’s struggling mightily. The jist of the report is that the SEIU and ACORN colluded to what? Empower wage slaves?

If only. More like to line their pockets

And yeah, I’ve had a hell of a time getting the thing to download in full. You’d think your and my tax dollars would have bought them more bandwidth..

635 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:42:22pm

re: #634 Guanxi88

If only. More like to line their pockets

And yeah, I’ve had a hell of a time getting the thing to download in full. You’d think your and my tax dollars would have bought them more bandwidth..

Check and see what mirror you’re downloading from. I have mine set to Al Gore’s servers. He invented the internet, so they’re real fast.

636 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:43:45pm

re: #635 drcordell

Check and see what mirror you’re downloading from. I have mine set to Al Gore’s servers. He invented the internet, so they’re real fast.

But they’re solar-powered, and it’s kinda cloudy here today.

637 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:43:53pm

re: #629 HappyWarrior

German-Scot-Irish ancestors in my case. Still means that a visit out there got me fed three meals - one from each aunt.

638 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:46:29pm

re: #617 Guanxi88


Fourth, ACORN contributed to the risky lending that led to the financial collapse.
ACORN drafted language to loosen underwriting standards and decrease down payments in the housing industry, paving the way for the high rate of subprime loans millions of Americans eventually defaulted on.
ACORN used provisions in the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 that allowed community groups to challenge bank mergers and acquisitions if a bank did not adequately invest in its own community. These challenges, which featured ACORN’s standard intimidation tactics, successfully forced banks to make lending agreements with ACORN Housing.

That’s priceless. ACORN caused the mortgage bubble? Really?

That is utter horseshit. Unless they controlled the non-banks and securitizers.

639 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:48:28pm

re: #638 garhighway

That’s priceless. ACORN caused the mortgage bubble? Really?

That is utter horseshit. Unless they controlled the non-banks and securitizers.

Hey, take it up with the committee - I just pass it along.

640 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:50:52pm

re: #439 webevintage

Idiot article at The American Spectator:
[Link: spectator.org…]

Best satirical comment besides the first that just ask if the author was “fucking retarded”:
“Finally, an American with the guts to stand up to the monstrous tyranny of life in Obama’s America. Joe Stack, we will avenge you! America can’t survive the marxist onslaught by the Kenyan and his al qaeda collaborators in the demrat party. Joe reminded us in the most dramatic way. He is the first martyr of the Tea Party activists who are taking back America in his name! God preserve his soul! “

That article is perhaps the single stupidest thing I’ve read in YEARS.

641 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:51:24pm

re: #639 Guanxi88

Hey, take it up with the committee - I just pass it along.

Sorry. I wasn’t yelling at you. I was just yelling.

642 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:51:45pm

re: #641 garhighway

Sorry. I wasn’t yelling at you. I was just yelling.

All good, everything’s all good.

643 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:53:17pm

re: #638 garhighway

That’s priceless. ACORN caused the mortgage bubble? Really?

That is utter horseshit. Unless they controlled the non-banks and securitizers.

It’s not about ACORN, it’s about the dog-whistle. Any time you read ACORN imagine you are seeing (read: black people). The GOP has to make sure that the populist rage of its base is channeled towards the appropriate sources. ACORN would be a good source, the immensely wealthy banking oligarchs that created this mess are a bad one.

They’re doing their darnedest to ensure that the pitchforked mob channels their anger towards “community organizers” rather than the monied oligarchy. And I must say it’s working. I can’t believe the percentage of people I have encountered who are utterly convinced that the Community Reinvestment Act is the entire reason why the economy imploded. Glass Steagal, they’ve never heard of it.

644 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:54:45pm

re: #643 drcordell

They’re doing their darnedest to ensure that the pitchforked mob channels their anger towards “community organizers” rather than the monied oligarchy. And I must say it’s working.

Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum. I see plutocracy on both sides of this thing.

As ever.

645 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:55:10pm

re: #643 drcordell

VDARE and their ilk love calling the CRA loans “minority loans”, too.

A very overt whistle, that one.

646 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 1:59:14pm

re: #489 Killgore Trout

Proof of socialism: Books!
Photo Evidence: Michelle Obama Keeps Socialist Books In The White House Library
OMG!

Some people…yes, kid. When the Bushes left, they threw out all the books LAURA picked out, and completely restocked the library with books MICHELLE picked out, including ancient hardcovers about American socialism.

Yeesh.

647 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:01:14pm

re: #633 Stanley Sea

This is the one blog I read the comments. All the rest are just crap.

648 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:02:41pm

That Spectator article is pretty dumb. There are people justifying by saying well liberals did this, liberals did that. Shit man, this is exactly what I hate about politics. It’s the bullshit premise that partisans have that if one side does one thing that it suddenly becomes okay if their own does it. I am not singling out just the right here for that because I’ve seen the left do it too and it’s really old.

649 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:02:42pm

re: #638 garhighway

The word was contributed, not caused.

650 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:02:44pm

re: #647 Rightwingconspirator

This is the one blog I read the comments. All the rest are just crap.

Is this the only Scottish one?

//

651 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:05:21pm

re: #645 Obdicut

Actually you can get that phrase right out of the banks promotions at the time. It was to be a good positive thing. But ill conceived. Unable to afford it means disaster, unable to verify income ditto.

652 drcordell  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:06:31pm

re: #650 oaktree

Is this the only Scottish one?

//

A scotsman wearing a kilt is talking to a pretty lassie sitting next to him at the bar.

She asks him “what does a scotsman wear under his kilt?”

He says “why don’t you stick your hand up and find out?”

So she does… and screams “ohmygod that’s gruesome!”

The scotsman replies, “I think it just grew some more”

653 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:12:01pm

re: #643 drcordell

It was repealed by a bipartisan congress, passed along party lines in the Senate yet signed by Pres. Clinton.

I wonder if these numbers are right from Wiki
“The year before the repeal, sub-prime loans were just five percent of all mortgage lending.[citation needed] By the time the credit crisis peaked in 2008, they were approaching 30 percent.[citation needed] This correlation is not necessarily an indication of causation however, as there are several other significant events that have impacted the sub-prime market during that time. These include the adoption of mark-to-market accounting, implementation of the Basel Accords, the rise of adjustable rate mortgages etc.[20]”

654 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:16:33pm

re: #653 Rightwingconspirator

It was repealed by a bipartisan congress, passed along party lines in the Senate yet signed by Pres. Clinton.

Yep. It took Senator UBS Senator Gramm and the GOP to draft the disastrous idea, but Clinton signed it. One more example of why a D president “triangulating” to get along with the far-right is a bad idea.

655 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:20:59pm

re: #654 torrentprime

I think you & the Dr mis-characterize. Recession after recession over the decades, past many presidents- “adjustments” and “fixes” for the economy undid many safety devices from the 1930’3. Tribal/partisan finger pointing misses the real issue-We never had the maturity as a nation to weather a recession without tinkering with the economy. Short term fixes over long term smart. And that irretrievably crossed the aisle on too many occasions to ignore.

656 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:22:55pm

re: #655 Rightwingconspirator

I think you & the Dr mis-characterize. Recession after recession over the decades, past many presidents- “adjustments” and “fixes” for the economy undid many safety devices from the 1930’3. Tribal/partisan finger pointing misses the real issue-We never had the maturity as a nation to weather a recession without tinkering with the economy. Short term fixes over long term smart. And that irretrievably crossed the aisle on too many occasions to ignore.

As always, too many people were too interested in the status quo to make any early corrections, too many others were too interested in lining their pockets and/or getting re-elected to stop it when it started to skid, and too many are too interested in lining their pockets AND scoring political points to keep this kind of thing from happening again.

657 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:22:55pm

re: #653 Rightwingconspirator

I wonder if these numbers are right from Wiki
“The year before the repeal, sub-prime loans were just five percent of all mortgage lending.[citation needed] By the time the credit crisis peaked in 2008, they were approaching 30 percent.[citation needed] This correlation is not necessarily an indication of causation however, as there are several other significant events that have impacted the sub-prime market during that time. These include the adoption of mark-to-market accounting, implementation of the Basel Accords, the rise of adjustable rate mortgages etc.[20]”

Most subprime lenders weren’t covered under CRA
Wall Street created the demand for riskier loans
Regulatory oversight and accountability was missing
The majority of subprime loans went to white borrowers
55 percent of higher-priced loan originations went to middle- and upper-income borrowers or borrowers in middle- and upper-income neighborhoods in 2005 and 2006.

Source
Source

The idea that poor illegal aliens Hispanics (hi, Malkin!) caused a worldwide economic crash just isn’t supported by the facts.

658 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:23:44pm

re: #655 Rightwingconspirator

I think you & the Dr mis-characterize. Recession after recession over the decades, past many presidents- “adjustments” and “fixes” for the economy undid many safety devices from the 1930’3. Tribal/partisan finger pointing misses the real issue-We never had the maturity as a nation to weather a recession without tinkering with the economy. Short term fixes over long term smart. And that irretrievably crossed the aisle on too many occasions to ignore.

So we agree that intelligent government regulation is not only useful but necessary?

659 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:25:17pm

re: #658 torrentprime

Yes!

660 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:25:42pm

re: #658 torrentprime

So we agree that intelligent government regulation is not only useful but necessary?

The key word there is “intelligent” - given the sheer volume and complexity of the market, state interventions are always going to be closing the door after the horses have escaped.

661 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:26:24pm

re: #657 torrentprime

CRA “compliant ” loans were numerous. Added to the mess. Again, “contributed”, as the word used int he article is very different from “caused”.

662 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:26:33pm

re: #655 Rightwingconspirator

Tribal/partisan finger pointing misses the real issue-We never had the maturity as a nation to weather a recession without tinkering with the economy.

The bill we’re talking about (Glass-Steagal rollback) didn’t take place during a recession, did it?

663 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:27:26pm

re: #654 torrentprime

Yep. It took Senator UBS Senator Gramm and the GOP to draft the disastrous idea, but Clinton signed it. One more example of why a D president “triangulating” to get along with the far-right is a bad idea.

To be fair, a lot of people had signed on to the idea of efficient markets and rational market players. What seems stupid now was less clear then. Clinton probably figured it was a cheap way to buy some IOUs.

664 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:27:28pm

re: #661 Rightwingconspirator

CRA “compliant ” loans were numerous. Added to the mess. Again, “contributed”, as the word used int he article is very different from “caused”.

“Numerous” and “adding to the mess” isn’t “caused”, I agree.

665 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:27:28pm

re: #662 torrentprime

After the Bush 41 recession but before the web boom. As I recall.

666 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:31:31pm

Apropos of all this, yours truly is hammering out the details - legal & financial - to sell the current Palace of Domestic & Filial Harmony and buy the Southern Palace of Domestic & Filial Harmony.

Selling big-ass Austin house to buy another one, in another county, valued at 1/3rd my current residence. I took one look at the assessments of our place, and saw what the houses by us were selling at, and concluded that a guy like me had no business owning a house that valuable.

667 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:32:32pm

re: #660 Guanxi88

The key word there is “intelligent” - given the sheer volume and complexity of the market, state interventions are always going to be closing the door after the horses have escaped.

This is hyperbole.
Underwriting requirements aren’t time-sensitive. Neither are disclosure requirements nor limitations on a company being a bank, security firm, and an insurance company all at the same time.

If we’d stop opening that door we just shut, it wouldn’t be open next time the horses try to bolt.

668 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:33:00pm

re: #666 Guanxi88

Apropos of all this, yours truly is hammering out the details - legal & financial - to sell the current Palace of Domestic & Filial Harmony and buy the Southern Palace of Domestic & Filial Harmony.

Selling big-ass Austin house to buy another one, in another county, valued at 1/3rd my current residence. I took one look at the assessments of our place, and saw what the houses by us were selling at, and concluded that a guy like me had no business owning a house that valuable.

When it’s all said and done, my mortgage, property taxes, and insurance should come to approximately 15% of my net monthly salary. A very secure feeling that is, too.

669 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:34:30pm

re: #667 torrentprime

This is hyperbole.
Underwriting requirements aren’t time-sensitive. Neither are disclosure requirements nor limitations on a company being a bank, security firm, and an insurance company all at the same time.

If we’d stop opening that door we just shut, it wouldn’t be open next time the horses try to bolt.

Eh, hyperbole ought to be a bit stronger than the general observation that we’re very good at fixing the last problem that bit us in the ass, but are as yet unable to foresee from whence the next set of teeth come.

Still, they ought never to have opened that particular door.

670 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:34:38pm

re: #668 Guanxi88

When it’s all said and done, my mortgage, property taxes, and insurance should come to approximately 15% of my net monthly salary. A very secure feeling that is, too.

I was somewhere between 55-65% at one point. Horrible place to be.

671 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:35:20pm

re: #670 torrentprime

I was somewhere between 55-65% at one point. Horrible place to be.

Downsizing - it’s not just for retirees and hippies.
:)

672 mr. hammer  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:36:13pm

re: #643 drcordell

Interesting article, FWIW here

673 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:37:26pm

re: #670 torrentprime

I was somewhere between 55-65% at one point. Horrible place to be.

What spooks me is that while the whole thing can be manageable for many people for a long time, so very few - and I include myself among the group - ever stop to ask themselves whether they’re at all comfortable.

Us? We’re NOT comfortable, not by a long shot.

674 garhighway  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:37:59pm

re: #661 Rightwingconspirator

CRA “compliant ” loans were numerous. Added to the mess. Again, “contributed”, as the word used int he article is very different from “caused”.

“Contributed” is a weasel word in that context and requires amplification. Does one bad CRA loan “contribute” to the problem? Do we think that ANYONE who uses “contribute” in that context means there was only one bad CRA load? Obviously not.

What most writers are trying to convey when they use “contribute” in this context is something like “substantially contribute” (and therefore substantially cause). Otherwise, why bother to bring it up?

And I note the lack of causative language after “CRA loans were numerous”. Of course they were numerous. But what was the default rate of CRA loans compared to subprime or Alt-A loans? I haven’t seen any data that leads me to believe CRA loans were a meaningful factor in the credit crisis.

Do you have any? Or to you, does one defaulted CRA loan mean that the CRA “contributed” to the mess?

675 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:38:13pm

re: #671 Guanxi88

Downsizing - it’s not just for retirees and hippies.
:)

LMAO

676 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:40:05pm

re: #671 Guanxi88

Downsizing - it’s not just for retirees and hippies.
:)

re: #675 torrentprime

LMAO

I’m wrapping up my MBA in financial planning, and plan to use the experience we’re going through now (early and radical right-sizing and re-allocation) to put together a guide and plan for others to do the same. We need a return to rational and frugal living in this country, and if I can help make that happen - and make a buck while doing it - then I’d be most gratified.

677 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:42:02pm

re: #674 garhighway

I’ll offer this

If you still doubt the role of the Community Reinvestment Act in encouraging lax lending practices, you should check out this 1996 pamphlet published by the Comptroller of the Currency. It discusses “some activities undertaken by small national banks that demonstrate exemplary performance under the Community Reinvestment Act.” Those activities now look a lot like the creation of toxic loans.

And what are those activities?

* Hawley National Bank is praised for offering residential loans with flexible terms, including three-year and five-year balloons and adjustable-rate mortgages. It also offers down-payment assistance.
*

First National Bank of the Berkshires’ loan portfolio, which consisted mostly of real estate related loans, is said to “reflect positively” on the bank’s efforts to meet CRA requirements. “The bank’s most innovative product is a mortgage loan, offered to customers of all income levels, that requires only a 3 percent down payment. In addition, the bank pays most of the closing costs and will escrow those to be paid by the borrowers. According to the bank officer, this product has received tremendous interest and represents about 80 percent of new loan originations,” the pamphlet says.

These examples are offered as “helpful hints” to other banks on how to comply with the CRA.

678 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:43:33pm

re: #674 garhighway

But what was the default rate of CRA loans compared to subprime or Alt-A loans?

Just one state, but CA was/is a huge part of the mortgage mess:

Economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco looked at … home-purchase loans made in California between January 2004 and December 2006. [They found that] “loans made by lenders regulated under the CRA were significantly less likely to go into foreclosure than those made by IMCs.” Even more important, “loans made by CRA lenders within their assessment areas, which receive the greatest regulatory scrutiny under the CRA, are significantly less likely to be in foreclosure than those made by independent mortgage companies that do not receive the same regulatory oversight.”
679 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:44:22pm

re: #676 Guanxi88

I’m wrapping up my MBA in financial planning, and plan to use the experience we’re going through now (early and radical right-sizing and re-allocation) to put together a guide and plan for others to do the same. We need a return to rational and frugal living in this country, and if I can help make that happen - and make a buck while doing it - then I’d be most gratified.

Good on ya — hope to see (and buy?) it some day.

680 Guanxi88  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:45:59pm

re: #679 torrentprime

Good on ya — hope to see (and buy?) it some day.

No, it’ll be free. Commonsense advice on frugality shouldn’t cost anyone a penny.

Now, if folk want to seek out my services in other, related areas, then I’d consider it free advertising. If they live right, they should have assets they need help with managing. THAT would be more rewarding.

681 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:46:36pm

re: #677 Rightwingconspirator

None of that address performance. You’re showing proof that a bank tried to follow CRA, not that the CRA did anything.

682 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:51:25pm

re: #681 torrentprime
I found this from an old bookmark…

Other “sightings” of CRA loan performance include:

- Bank of America, one of the nation’s largest CRA lenders, noted on its Q3:08 earnings call with equity analysts that while its CRA loans constituted 7% or $18 billion of its owned residential mortgage portfolio, they represented 29% of net losses, with an annualized loss rate of 1.26%.

Fannie’s traditionally underwritten loans have a serious delinquency rate of 1.8%.
How are Fannie’s $650 billion in loans with the above high risk characteristics doing?

- Down payment equal to or less than 5% - 11.56% serious delinquency rate
- FICO < 620 - 16.08% serious delinquency rate
- FICO >
- FICO >= 620 and < 660 - 11.32% serious delinquency rate

On average this rate is 7x the rate on traditionally underwritten loans. This result should come as no surprise since Freddie Mac published its estimated default rates by loan-to-value (LTV) in the late 1990s and reported that its 95% LTV loans had about 6 times the default rate of 80% loans.

683 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:53:18pm

re: #681 torrentprime

None of that address performance. You’re showing proof that a bank tried to follow CRA, not that the CRA did anything.

I am not one to blame the CRA as THE problem, I find it an icon of poor practices across a broad range of mortgage loans, particularly by failing to verify income.

684 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 2:55:33pm

And speaking of screw jobs…

Florida Attorney General probes Cash4Gold
By Michelle Graff
February 18, 2010

Fort Lauderdale, Fla.—The Florida Attorney General’s Office has launched a civil investigation into mail-in gold company Cash4Gold, after receiving 72 consumer complaints about the operation, the office confirmed to National Jeweler.It’s perhaps best known for its widespread TV advertising campaign featuring rapper MC Hammer and the late entertainer Ed McMahon, including a spot that aired during last year’s Super Bowl.

According to the attorney general’s office, the civil investigation into Cash4Gold began in November 2009 after a number of consumers filed complaints claiming they were not paid nearly enough for their gold.

Consumers also state that they contacted Cash4Gold within the allotted 10- to 12-day return period to say they were not satisfied with the amount offered for their gold, only to be told their gold was already melted.

Others allege that when they returned their checks because they were unsatisfied with the amount offered, they never get their jewelry back, according to the attorney general’s office.

685 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 3:01:10pm

re: #682 Rightwingconspirator

I found this from an old bookmark…

Other “sightings” of CRA loan performance include:

- Bank of America, one of the nation’s largest CRA lenders, noted on its Q3:08 earnings call with equity analysts that while its CRA loans constituted 7% or $18 billion of its owned residential mortgage portfolio, they represented 29% of net losses, with an annualized loss rate of 1.26%.

Fannie’s traditionally underwritten loans have a serious delinquency rate of 1.8%.
How are Fannie’s $650 billion in loans with the above high risk characteristics doing?

- Down payment equal to or less than 5% - 11.56% serious delinquency rate
- FICO < 620 - 16.08% serious delinquency rate
- FICO >= 620 and < 660 - 11.32% serious delinquency rate

On average this rate is 7x the rate on traditionally underwritten loans. This result should come as no surprise since Freddie Mac published its estimated default rates by loan-to-value (LTV) in the late 1990s and reported that its 95% LTV loans had about 6 times the default rate of 80% loans.

You’re comparing BofA’s performance to Fannie Mae? Even though Fannie was pushed, starting in 2001, to buy sub-prime loans?

686 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 3:04:05pm

re: #685 torrentprime

I am observing (not comparing) a real world example of the effects of CRA loans from one of the nations largest CRA lenders.

687 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 3:04:20pm

re: #683 Rightwingconspirator

I am not one to blame the CRA as THE problem, I find it an icon of poor practices across a broad range of mortgage loans, particularly by failing to verify income.

But, again, CRA-covered lenders had better regulatory oversight, and their loans performed better than independent mortgage companies’. Still not seeing how the CRA is an icon of anything.

688 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 3:07:40pm

CRA played its part in the mortgage bubble breaking. It was a part of adding many unqualified buyers to the market, therefore artificially inflating prices homes with loans on unwise terms.

The end result backs my points, if certainly not some of the Republican hyperbole out there.

689 torrentprime  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 3:14:53pm

re: #688 Rightwingconspirator

CRA played its part in the mortgage bubble breaking. It was a part of adding many unqualified buyers to the market, therefore artificially inflating prices homes with loans on unwise terms.

The end result backs my points, if certainly not some of the Republican hyperbole out there.

There is a lot of “many” and “part” in there that isn’t quantified in the slightest.

The fact that a) independent mortgage companies also did sub and Alt lending, and b) those IMC’s didn’t have CRA oversight, and c) those IMC loans did worse tells a different story to me. We’ll prob. have to agree to disagree on this one…

690 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 3:19:54pm

re: #689 torrentprime
If BofA was the biigest CRA lender wilth all that oversight and they still lost as shown… I think I made a decent case. Not definitive but decent. But yeah we disagree. Happens like that. I appreciate it being civil, I avoid the name and flame wars as best I can.

691 Fenris  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 3:25:18pm

Makes sense that a society co-founded by a Holocaust denier would stand behind an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist.

692 jbigss  Thu, Feb 18, 2010 4:17:19pm

Where is the White House and the Democratic party on this? Romney, Cheney, and the rest should all be put on the defensive for associating with the JBS. I don’t hear any Dems taliking about this. They are so inept they don’t even recognize when their enemy hands them an issue.

693 garhighway  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 5:55:47am

re: #682 Rightwingconspirator

I found this from an old bookmark…

Other “sightings” of CRA loan performance include:

- Bank of America, one of the nation’s largest CRA lenders, noted on its Q3:08 earnings call with equity analysts that while its CRA loans constituted 7% or $18 billion of its owned residential mortgage portfolio, they represented 29% of net losses, with an annualized loss rate of 1.26%.

Fannie’s traditionally underwritten loans have a serious delinquency rate of 1.8%.
How are Fannie’s $650 billion in loans with the above high risk characteristics doing?

- Down payment equal to or less than 5% - 11.56% serious delinquency rate
- FICO < 620 - 16.08% serious delinquency rate
- FICO >= 620 and < 660 - 11.32% serious delinquency rate

On average this rate is 7x the rate on traditionally underwritten loans. This result should come as no surprise since Freddie Mac published its estimated default rates by loan-to-value (LTV) in the late 1990s and reported that its 95% LTV loans had about 6 times the default rate of 80% loans.

I would respectfully suggest that you are missing the point. What I thought we were discussing were the origins of the credit crisis. When I use that term, I am describing the total meltdown of the credit markets in the fall of 2008 that led our nation to commit nearly a trillion dollars to fix it.

My thesis is that bank-originated lending was not the or a cause of the credit crisis. Your B of A example there is helpful. The lending operations of B of A showed the kind of results one expects in a market/economic downturn: default rates went up, profitability went down. We have all heard and seen this before, and it has never been a big or systemic problem. Rather, the affected bank posts higher loss reserves and lower profits for a quarter or two and we all get back to business. If all we had was a bunch of banks reporting those kinds of results for a couple of quarters, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

The credit crisis wasn’t about some banks have a bad quarter or two. It was about the collapse of the balance sheets of some of our largest financial institutions, because they were stuffed with RBMS that were composed of non-bank subprime mortgages that were garbage. When the market for those securities collapsed, so did the balance sheets of those institutions. Thus Bear, Lehman, Merrill, Citi and AIG.

That collapse was ALL ABOUT non-bank lending and how those loans were packaged downstream from the originator. That collapse had NOTHING to do with CRA lending. Period.

To the extent that you consider CRA lending a problem (and I hold no opinion on that point) it is a different and unrelated problem from the credit crisis.

My further observation is that the reason CRA lending comes up in credit crisis discussions is that there is a certain segment of our population that, for whatever reasons, cannot bear the thought that in an essentially unregulated part of our financial system a bunch of really smart guys could get together and do something as magnificently stupid as they did. That would mean that free markets aren’t necessarily self-correcting (unless you consider the credit crisis an acceptable market correction). And that has profound regulatory implications that some folks just can’t bear to face.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 210117We were a bit short of top soil to finish off the jasmine bed. Not enough for another truckload (thank goodness) so we bought a pallet of 65 bags and had it delivered. Two bags of soil conditioner and about ...
Dangerman
16 hours, 5 minutes ago
Views: 172 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
David Bowie - Tryin’ to Get to Heaven (Official Audio) Official audio for David Bowie's cover version of @Bob Dylan's Tryin' To Get To Heaven released to mark what would have been David's 74th birthday on the 8th January 2021. Subscribe now: bit.ly Watch David Bowie's official music videos ...
Thanos
20 hours, 29 minutes ago
Views: 183 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Kings of Leon - 100,000 People (Visualizer) Kings of Leon // When You See Yourself // The New Album Available March 5Feat. “100,000 People” & “The Bandit” // Listen: smarturl.it Pre-Order / Pre-Save: smarturl.it Director: Robert Smyth & Casey McGrathCinematographer: Janusz Kaminski Editor: Adam ZuckermanColor: Tom ...
Thanos
20 hours, 31 minutes ago
Views: 194 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 •
Mogwai - Ritchie Sacramento (Official Video) The official music video for Mogwai – Richie Sacramento, the second single taken from 'As The Love Continues', you can pre-order it at store.mogwai.scot CreditsDirector and build : Sam Wiehl (vimeo.com)Editor : Kit MonteithSpecial thanks to Polyphoria, Aglobex, NatureManufacture ...
Thanos
1 day, 10 hours ago
Views: 286 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Amanda Shires - That’s All (Official Lyric Video)Music video by Amanda Shires performing That's All (Official Lyric Video). (C) 2020 Silver Knife Records marketed and distributed by Thirty Tigers vevo.ly
Thanos
2 days, 17 hours ago
Views: 432 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
The KLF - Justified & Ancient (Official Video)The KLF - Justified & Ancient (Official Video) An Atlas AdventureDirected by Bill ButtKLF Communications Listen to Solid State Logik 1: smarturl.it
Thanos
3 days, 6 hours ago
Views: 492 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 3 •
Freddie Washington 2010 KSBR Bash If you listen to music at all, then you've heard Freddie & probably liked it. He's played or toured with Herbie Hancock, Michael Jackson, Al Jarreau, Aaron Neville, Lionel Richie, Anita Baker, B.B. King, Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Whitney ...
Thanos
3 days, 21 hours ago
Views: 496 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 4 •
Barry Gibb - Too Much Heaven (Visualizer) Ft. Alison Krauss ‘GREENFIELDS The Gibb Brothers Songbook, Vol. 1’ out now: barrygibb.lnk.to Listen to more Barry Gibb here: barrygibb.lnk.to... Socials -Facebook: facebook.com...Twitter: @GibbBarryInstagram: instagram.com... #barrygibb #greenfields Music video by Barry Gibb performing Too Much Heaven (Visualizer). A Capitol Records Release; © ...
Thanos
4 days, 18 hours ago
Views: 861 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 4 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 210110We received the second check valve and installed it.It works as it should.They should both ease up the startup workload on the small pumps.We can forget about this for a while or longer. We bought a bunch more plants. Some ...
Dangerman
6 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 779 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 7
Tweets: 0 •
No One’s Disciple — Theremin Trees A reflection on something of special importance at this time: the dangers of magical heroes, human and divine. You can support the channel at: patreon.com--0:00 the importance of individuality4:08 heroes, harmful and helpful6:29 religious disciples7:22 a little learning9:20 hero ...
Thanos
1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 1,046 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 3 •