Poll: Majority of Texans Reject Evolution

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
US News • Fri Feb 19, 2010 at 1:06 pm PST • Views: 791

Yikes! According to a new poll by the Texas Tribune and the University of Texas, a disturbingly high number of Lone Star State residents think “The Flintstones” is a documentary.

Nearly a third of Texans believe humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth at the same time, and more than half disagree with the theory that humans developed from earlier species of animals, according to the University of Texas/Texas Tribune Poll.

The differences in beliefs about evolution and the length of time that living things have existed on earth are reflected in the political and religious preference of our respondents, who were asked four questions about biological history and God:

• 38 percent said human beings developed over millions of years with God guiding the process and another 12 percent said that development happened without God having any part of the process. Another 38 percent agreed with the statement “God created human beings pretty much in their present form about 10,000 years ago.”

• Asked about the origin and development of life on earth without injecting humans into the discussion, and 53 percent said it evolved over time, “with a guiding hand from God.” They were joined by 15 percent who agreed on the evolution part, but “with no guidance from God.” About a fifth — 22 percent — said life has existed in its present form since the beginning of time.

• Most of the Texans in the survey — 51 percent — disagree with the statement, “human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals.” Thirty-five percent agreed with that statement, and 15 percent said they don’t know.

• Did humans live at the same time as the dinosaurs? Three in ten Texas voters agree with that statement; 41 percent disagree, and 30 percent don’t know.

The survey also demonstrates why Texas Governor Rick Perry is able to get away with stacking the Texas Board of Education with creationists and religious fanatics — they’re his constituency. More than two thirds of Rick Perry voters are creationists.

Republicans are less likely to believe that humans developed from earlier species of animals; 26 percent agree, while 60 percent disagree. Among Democrats in the survey, 46 percent agree that humans evolved from earlier species; 42 percent disagree. Perry’s voters were most hostile to this premise — 67 percent disagree.

(Hat tip: KT.)

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236 comments

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1 Kragar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:07:42pm

To the people of Texas;

The Flintstones was NOT a documentary.

2 freetoken  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:08:19pm

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But it was on TeeVee...

3 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:08:54pm

Yabba Dabba Do!

4 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:09:05pm

re: #2 freetoken

But it was on TeeVee...

And those poor people trapped on that island...

5 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:09:22pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Yabba Dabba Do!

More like Yabba Dabba Dumb if you ask me...

6 ShaunP  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:09:56pm

This is almost too disturbing to wrap my brain around. Something has to be wrong with the poll. For the love of god, let there be something wrong with the poll...

7 badger1970  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:11:23pm

I wonder what Texans would say if football evolved from rugby. //

I didn't see which part of Texas the survey was taken, I sure in hell don't know or work with anybody who actually believes in full-blown 10k years +/- creation.

8 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:11:27pm

Did they poll them on "Land of the Lost?"

9 Kragar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:11:35pm

To be fair, I'm sure some Texans are militantly opposed to the Flintstones, due to their having "a gay old time".

10 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:11:39pm

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To the people of Texas;

The Flintstones was NOT a documentary.

Of course not. Just "historical fiction" since no one from Genesis makes an appearance and Rock Vegas did not get leveled with fire and brimstone.

/

11 garhighway  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:11:47pm

I miss Molly Ivins.

12 freetoken  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:12:40pm

re: #7 badger1970

If you go to the Tribune article and download one of the PDFs from the survey (the smaller one I think), it lists the regional distribution (in Texas) of the respondents.

13 darthstar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:12:44pm

Well, at least they weren't just attacking Republicans this time...who knew the Democrats were a bunch of creationists?
/

14 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:13:33pm

re: #7 badger1970

I wonder what Texans would say if football evolved from rugby. //

I didn't see which part of Texas the survey was taken, I sure in hell don't know or work with anybody who actually believes in full-blown 10k years +/- creation.

Of course they should know that Football evolved from Rugby, Stephen Colbert said so, Americans took Rugby, got rid of the part where guys stuck their heads in each others buts...

15 darthstar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:13:44pm

re: #6 ShaunP

This is almost too disturbing to wrap my brain around. Something has to be wrong with the poll. For the love of god, let there be something wrong with the poll...

Yes, they asked people from Texas what they thought. That's just wrong.

16 badger1970  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:14:31pm

re: #12 freetoken

Thanks.

17 Kragar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:16:38pm

re: #14 jamesfirecat

Of course they should know that Football evolved from Rugby, Stephen Colbert said so, Americans took Rugby, got rid of the part where guys stuck their heads in each others buts...

And slapped on 30+ pounds of protective padding to play the game. Pussies.

18 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:17:27pm

You really do need a Flintstones graphic to go with this...

19 teleskiguy  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:18:16pm

This is awful. People are getting dumber. Idiocracy here we come!

20 Lidane  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:18:25pm

re: #11 garhighway

I miss Molly Ivins.

God, so do I. She would have had a field day with this.

What a depressing poll. *sigh*

21 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:19:04pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And slapped on 30+ pounds of protective padding to play the game. Pussies.

We also realized it would be even more fun if you could throw the ball forward.


(Stephen's words not mine)

22 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:19:21pm

Poll: Majority of Texans are Fucking Stupid.

and from the second pie chart:

Poll: 30% of Texans are Dangerously Fucking Stupid.

23 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:19:45pm

re: #18 Thanos

You really do need a Flintstones graphic to go with this...

An image of Fred and Barney doing a Double Facepalm seems appropriate, with a tagline of "Prehistoric Facepalm: Because even the Flintstones know how dumb you sound."

24 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:20:21pm

re: #20 Lidane

God, so do I. She would have had a field day with this.

What a depressing poll. *sigh*

The Daily show and the Colbert report really need to both become full hour long shows, there's just too much crazy in the world to fit into 30 min - adds= 21 min - Interview = roughly =12 min...

25 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:20:38pm

42% of Democrats and 67% of GOPers think that dinosaurs and people cohabited the planet at the same time? [facepalm]

Get me out of here Mr. Wizard.

I think we've slipped into bizarro world where people think that the movies and other Hollywood pablum (think Flintstones, Land of the Lost, etc.) and mixed in a with more than a dash of creationism have led us to this point.

No matter the amount of evidence to the contrary, all too many people are buying into the belief that people and dinosaurs were roaming the Earth at the same time. Even though we're nearly 100 years removed from Darwin, that we've got science to establish the age of the planet and date dinosaur bones to more than 65 million years ago - or tens of millions of years before man was even around, we've got this. [facepalm]

26 Kragar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:21:44pm

re: #21 jamesfirecat

We also realized it would be even more fun if you could throw the ball forward.


(Stephen's words not mine)

Football would be more enjoyable if the teams were allowed to employ landmines, a series of defensive trenchlines and barricades and crew served weapons. Which team would also be allowed to choose from a list of option equipment: Flamethrowers, chainsaws, etc.

27 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:22:09pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And slapped on 30+ pounds of protective padding to play the game. Pussies.

I prefer to think of it as being smart enough to realize that by protecting small but vital portions of the body we figured out how to hit each other even harder without ending up dead.

28 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:22:22pm
29 Kragar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:22:43pm

re: #27 Girth

I prefer to think of it as being smart enough to realize that by protecting small but vital portions of the body we figured out how to hit each other even harder without ending up dead.

Wheres the fun in that?

/

30 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:23:13pm

re: #25 lawhawk

42% of Democrats and 67% of GOPers think that dinosaurs and people cohabited the planet at the same time? [facepalm]

Get me out of here Mr. Wizard.

I think we've slipped into bizarro world where people think that the movies and other Hollywood pablum (think Flintstones, Land of the Lost, etc.) and mixed in a with more than a dash of creationism have led us to this point.

No matter the amount of evidence to the contrary, all too many people are buying into the belief that people and dinosaurs were roaming the Earth at the same time. Even though we're nearly 100 years removed from Darwin, that we've got science to establish the age of the planet and date dinosaur bones to more than 65 million years ago - or tens of millions of years before man was even around, we've got this. [facepalm]

If it helps I think this poll is only of Texas and not the entire US...

Though it does help me understand why someone would not want to mess with Texas...

31 badger1970  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:23:24pm

I'm curious about the 20% who identified themselves as Catholic as to what they responded. The Holy See doesn't have an issue with evolution.

32 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:24:20pm

re: #31 badger1970

I'm curious about the 20% who identified themselves as Catholic as to what they responded. The Holy See doesn't have an issue with evolution.

Doesn't the Holy See actively promote evolution? So you know if you're Catholic and creationist then you're as "wrong" as if you're catholic and believe in abortion...

33 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:24:56pm

re: #30 jamesfirecat

Sadly, I think if we repeat this poll nationally, we might find a similar result with the South, West, and Midwest most closely tracking Texas and the NE and California diverging most sharply.

34 ED 209  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:25:26pm

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To the people of Texas;

The Flintstones was NOT a documentary.

You can't prove that.
/need I?

35 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:25:30pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Football would be more enjoyable if the teams were allowed to employ landmines, a series of defensive trenchlines and barricades and crew served weapons. Which team would also be allowed to choose from a list of option equipment: Flamethrowers, chainsaws, etc.

Orks iz made fah puntin and sackin!

36 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:26:24pm

They just believe everything they read in the Daily Slate...

37 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:26:25pm

re: #33 lawhawk

Sadly, I think if we repeat this poll nationally, we might find a similar result with the South, West, and Midwest most closely tracking Texas and the NE and California diverging most sharply.

Yeah, I have a sneaking suspicion that were someone to put together a really complete test of stupidity, we'd find regional variations all pointing toward a massively stupid and actively dangerous population as a whole.

Thus is it ever.

38 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:26:26pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Football would be more enjoyable if the teams were allowed to employ landmines, a series of defensive trenchlines and barricades and crew served weapons. Which team would also be allowed to choose from a list of option equipment: Flamethrowers, chainsaws, etc.

There was a great arcade game back in the day called Cyberball. No weapons, but the players were all robots and in addition to losing possession by not gaining first downs, the ball blew up, so if you tried rushing for a first down and didn't make it, oops, your star tailback just got blown the hell up.

39 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:27:23pm

re: #38 Girth

There was a great arcade game back in the day called Cyberball. No weapons, but the players were all robots and in addition to losing possession by not gaining first downs, the ball blew up, so if you tried rushing for a first down and didn't make it, oops, your star tailback just got blown the hell up.

Also known as Beirut Rules.

40 freetoken  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:27:41pm

re: #18 Thanos

Illustrations for the new Texas Readers series, approved by the SBOE for use in all schools:

1st grade
emphasizes the importance of families.
2nd grade
teaches about neighbors.


5th grade
emphasizes the importance of seat belts for safety.
7th grade covers home economics and the role of women in the household.
10th grade
covers history and culture, showing that cavemen (who kept dinosaurs as pets) lived post-Christ, as evidenced by the Christmas tree.

And finally, 12th grade demonstrates the proper approach for a young man to court his female.

41 The Shadow Do  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:27:56pm
Republicans are less likely to believe that humans developed from earlier species of animals; 26 percent agree, while 60 percent disagree. Among Democrats in the survey, 46 percent agree that humans evolved from earlier species; 42 percent disagree. Perry’s voters were most hostile to this premise — 67 percent disagree.

However you slice that it is evident that Christianity is at loggerheads with science. I don't knock religious folks, but what a nasty disconnect from reality many seem to have willfully accepted. Pretty damn sad really, seeing ignorance spread with such authority. Even predatory in a way.

This agnostic is working in his own small way to oust Perry here in Texas, but it ain't likely to happen. Kay needs to grow a pair but I guess that is pretty much impossible.

42 Kragar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:28:06pm

The Catholic Church's official position is one of theistic evolution. That God created and shaped the universe using observable scientific phenomenon and that evolution was one of those tools.

43 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:28:21pm

re: #38 Girth

There was a great arcade game back in the day called Cyberball. No weapons, but the players were all robots and in addition to losing possession by not gaining first downs, the ball blew up, so if you tried rushing for a first down and didn't make it, oops, your star tailback just got blown the hell up.

That also meant that if you were clever you could use the ball to blow up your opposition. >:D

44 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:28:25pm

re: #38 Girth

There was a great arcade game back in the day called Cyberball. No weapons, but the players were all robots and in addition to losing possession by not gaining first downs, the ball blew up, so if you tried rushing for a first down and didn't make it, oops, your star tailback just got blown the hell up.

Well, that would explain why he turned to play a mean pinball. Deaf, dumb and blind... //

45 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:28:34pm

What an easy quiz... everybody knows humans and dinosaurs were around the same time, there is proof...

I hate these rigged polls.

46 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:30:27pm

BBL

47 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:30:38pm

re: #41 The Shadow Do


This agnostic is working in his own small way to oust Perry here in Texas, but it ain't likely to happen. Kay needs to grow a pair but I guess that is pretty much impossible.

This Hebrew ain't crazy 'bout Perry, but knows deep down that his transparent corruption and manifest phonieness, as known quantities, can be factored into my plans more easily than can Kay Bailey and whatever it is she might or might not have in mind.

Kinky, why didn't you run this time?

48 Kragar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:31:04pm

re: #35 jamesfirecat

Orks iz made fah puntin and sackin!

RAH RAH WRECK, PUNCH EM IN DA NECK!
RAH RAH REE, PUNCH EM IN DA KNEE!
RAH RAH RICK, PUNCH EM IN DA OVA KNEE!
/Ork Cheer

49 pharmmajor  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:31:21pm

Troubling reports, but again, I'm skeptical that this is an accurate representation of the population as a whole.

50 The Shadow Do  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:32:11pm

re: #47 Guanxi88

This Hebrew ain't crazy 'bout Perry, but knows deep down that his transparent corruption and manifest phonieness, as known quantities, can be factored into my plans more easily than can Kay Bailey and whatever it is she might or might not have in mind.

Kinky, why didn't you run this time?

Kay may be old school, but I do not see malicious i.e. Perry.

51 ED 209  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:32:58pm

re: #41 The Shadow Do

This agnostic is working in his own small way...

Chicken.

/:)

52 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:33:45pm

re: #50 The Shadow Do

Kay may be old school, but I do not see malicious i.e. Perry.

Ahh, but Perry's malice is pretty easy to figure out - he lines his pockets, he gets his buddies what they want and need when they want and need it, he goes and gets his hair done, and that's about it.

Kay Bailey, though - well, I just don't know. Every last thing she says about Perry is absolutely true and correct, and for all that, she doesn't persuade me to vote for her.

53 Lidane  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:35:32pm

re: #47 Guanxi88

Kinky, why didn't you run this time?

He did. It's just that when Bill White entered the race for governor, Kinky switched over to running for Agriculture Commissioner.

54 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:35:56pm

re: #52 Guanxi88

Ahh, but Perry's malice is pretty easy to figure out - he lines his pockets, he gets his buddies what they want and need when they want and need it, he goes and gets his hair done, and that's about it.

Kay Bailey, though - well, I just don't know. Every last thing she says about Perry is absolutely true and correct, and for all that, she doesn't persuade me to vote for her.

Not to mention, I'd prefer her to stay in the Senate - she's doing a damned fine job there.

55 Girth  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:37:00pm

re: #52 Guanxi88

Ahh, but Perry's malice is pretty easy to figure out - he lines his pockets, he gets his buddies what they want and need when they want and need it, he goes and gets his hair done, and that's about it.

Kay Bailey, though - well, I just don't know. Every last thing she says about Perry is absolutely true and correct, and for all that, she doesn't persuade me to vote for her.

Someday maybe voters won't have to choose between a douche and a turd sandwich.

Not holding my breath.

56 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:37:14pm

re: #53 Lidane

He did. It's just that when Bill White entered the race for governor, Kinky switched over to running for Agriculture Commissioner.

Its what I mean - Ag Commissioner. A powerful position - no, really, it is - but not as powerful as, say, Railroad Commissoner - the TRUE power in this great State.

As governor, I think he'd do a fine job, recognizing, as he does, the largely "spiritual" nature of the office.

57 Kragar  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:39:09pm

Off to pick up my kids, later

58 The Shadow Do  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:39:11pm

re: #52 Guanxi88

Ahh, but Perry's malice is pretty easy to figure out - he lines his pockets, he gets his buddies what they want and need when they want and need it, he goes and gets his hair done, and that's about it.

Kay Bailey, though - well, I just don't know. Every last thing she says about Perry is absolutely true and correct, and for all that, she doesn't persuade me to vote for her.

Kay is utterly predictable and usually votes the right way, but not before being coy about it. This is a politician as I have grown to know them. Not an asshole i.e. Perry.

59 badger1970  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:39:22pm

re: #56 Guanxi88

I thought it was the comptroller who wields the hammer.

60 Lidane  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:40:06pm

re: #56 Guanxi88

I would have liked Kinky as governor. Hell, I voted for him last time around because Perry's a douche, Strayhorn has always annoyed me, and Chris Bell never got my attention.

I would love to see Perry tossed out on his overly groomed hair, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen anytime soon. He'll have to retire on his own, I think. Dammit. *sigh*

61 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:40:51pm

re: #59 badger1970

I thought it was the comptroller who wields the hammer.

Well, she does, kinda, but since nobody can remember her full name she sorta gets forgotten.

But the RR commissioner's VERY powerful: Controls the oil and natural gas industries here.

62 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:41:47pm

re: #60 Lidane

I would have liked Kinky as governor. Hell, I voted for him last time around because Perry's a douche, Strayhorn has always annoyed me, and Chris Bell never got my attention.

I would love to see Perry tossed out on his overly groomed hair, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen anytime soon. He'll have to retire on his own, I think. Dammit. *sigh*

There's always the possibility of an indictment. Don't forget that.

63 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:42:04pm

I seriously would not move to Texas for quadruple my my annual income.

I'd visit Austin, though. Friends in the game industry there, and good music.

64 badger1970  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:42:10pm

re: #62 Guanxi88

In the past or future?

65 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:42:30pm

Someone should p-shop a Fred suit onto a photo of Perry for fun...

This is really sad :

Most of the Texans in the survey — 51 percent — disagree with the statement, “human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals.” Thirty-five percent agreed with that statement, and 15 percent said they don’t know.

66 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:42:54pm

re: #64 badger1970

In the past or future?

Future. I;m sure it's only a matter of time before he's brought to the attention of a grand jury.

67 Buck  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:42:55pm

Wow, Cash for Caulkers is definitely a stimulus.

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

So far $522 million has been spent on the program, meaning that American taxpayers have spent between $24,857 and $56,372 for each caulk job.

A caulk job that should cost less than $5,000 each, if the ceilings are insulated and sealed.

68 freetoken  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:43:00pm

Ky. man charged with threatening Obama in Web poem

A Kentucky man has been charged with posting a poem threatening President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama on a white supremacist Web site.

U.S. Secret Service Special Agent Stephan M. Pazenzia said Johnny Logan Spencer Jr., 27, of Louisville wrote and posted the poem, titled "The Sniper," on a page called NewSaxon.org. The site is described as an "Online Community for Whites by Whites." The poem was posted in August 2007, according to an arrest affidavit.

69 drcordell  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:43:14pm

And so begins the decline of our great nation.

70 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:43:28pm

re: #63 WindUpBird

I seriously would not move to Texas for quadruple my my annual income.

I'd visit Austin, though. Friends in the game industry there, and good music.

Hey, come on down! Austin isn't Texas, but it is surrounded by it.

71 ulmsey123  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:43:59pm

Are we not men?

72 SixDegrees  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:44:04pm

I look at this as good news. My kids will be entering the job market in just a few years, and the less competition they have, the easier things will be for them.

/

Gotta run - things are shakin'.

73 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:44:14pm

re: #69 drcordell

And so begins the decline of our great nation.

It started well before today, my friend.

74 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:44:40pm

re: #38 Girth

There was a great arcade game back in the day called Cyberball. No weapons, but the players were all robots and in addition to losing possession by not gaining first downs, the ball blew up, so if you tried rushing for a first down and didn't make it, oops, your star tailback just got blown the hell up.

There are still harcdore tournaments for Cyberball! Guys that have been playing since it was a brand new machine. Before it closed down, the arcade near my old apartment had a perfect condition four player (two monitors angled away from each other) Cyberball that they had weekly bracket tournaments on. I'd say, for my money, it's the greatest football game ever made for an arcade.

75 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:44:55pm

re: #70 Guanxi88

Hey, come on down! Austin isn't Texas, but it is surrounded by it.

Sort of like the allied occupied section of Berlin compared to the East Germany?

(Bad taste?)

76 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:45:19pm

re: #70 Guanxi88

Hey, come on down! Austin isn't Texas, but it is surrounded by it.

hahahaha I have heard that a lot :D

77 ED 209  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:45:47pm

re: #71 ulmsey123

Are we not men?

We're all Devo!

78 drcordell  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:46:58pm

re: #67 Buck

Wow, Cash for Caulkers is definitely a stimulus.

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

So far $522 million has been spent on the program, meaning that American taxpayers have spent between $24,857 and $56,372 for each caulk job.

A caulk job that should cost less than $5,000 each, if the ceilings are insulated and sealed.

You might want to go back and actually read the source article, instead of trusting National Revoo's "analysis."

According to the DoE, they have completed weatherization on 124,000 homes so far. At a cost of $522 million.

$522,000,000 / 124,000 = $4,209.67 per home.

79 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:47:40pm

re: #75 jamesfirecat

Sort of like the allied occupied section of Berlin compared to the East Germany?

(Bad taste?)

No, it's pretty close, though.

Wanna a slice of Austin life?

Leslie Cochran is our de facto mayor. No, really, everybody knows the guy, he's a local celebrity, Guy got arrested for vagrancy (he's homeless) and public intox out in Colorado one year on vacation (yeah, on vacation!).

Next thing the local authorities know, he's got the real mayor, Willie Nelson, and a whole buncha folk calling them up to pay his fines and get him transported outta there.

When he got beaten up last year (it was pretty bad - thought we were gonna lose him) the whole town held its breath.

80 HoosierHoops  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:47:57pm

re: #77 ED 209

We're all Devo!

The only band in the world to wear flower pots on their heads..
Just whip it! Whip it good!

81 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:48:03pm

re: #78 drcordell

You might want to go back and actually read the source article, instead of trusting National Revoo's "analysis."

According to the DoE, they have completed weatherization on 124,000 homes so far. At a cost of $522 million.

$522,000,000 / 124,000 = $4,209.67 per home.

Huh...

4,209.67... hey that's less than $5,000 just like you said it should be Buck!

82 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:49:19pm

re: #78 drcordell

You might want to go back and actually read the source article, instead of trusting National Revoo's "analysis."

According to the DoE, they have completed weatherization on 124,000 homes so far. At a cost of $522 million.

$522,000,000 / 124,000 = $4,209.67 per home.

Haha, it's elitist to know math! :D

83 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:49:34pm

Ya know, after seeing crap like this, maybe we should let them secede. We can send a rescue mission for the sane Texans and let the rest have lily white rewritten dominionist Jesus land.

Morons.

84 Lidane  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:50:23pm

re: #63 WindUpBird

I'd visit Austin, though. Friends in the game industry there, and good music.

As I like to put it, we're a tiny island of reason surrounded by an ocean of WTF. I was born in South Texas, and grew up in Houston, but I found home once I moved here to Austin. I'd have to be offered at least triple my salary to move elsewhere.

Aside from the damnable presence of Alex Jones and his ilk, along with the Ron Paul lolbertarian faction that you'll see driving around town, this is a great place to live. Good food, good music, lots of beautiful outdoor areas, and plenty of local festivals, so there's never a shortage of things to do. Oh, and the bats. I have an almost irrational love for the bats. Heh.

85 drcordell  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:50:37pm

re: #82 WindUpBird

Haha, it's elitist to know math! :D

I don't think it's the math National Review has a problem with. It's taking an objective look at anything Obama has done.

86 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:51:29pm

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

Ya know, after seeing crap like this, maybe we should let them secede. We can send a rescue mission for the sane Texans and let the rest have lily white rewritten dominionist Jesus land.

Morons.

Now don't start that. "Lily-white" tells me you don't know our demographics: around 36% state-wide are Hispanic or Latino.

87 badger1970  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:51:40pm

re: #79 Guanxi88

..and to think I thought he was only a con-artist, business extortionist. //

88 Buck  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:51:58pm

re: #78 drcordell

You might want to go back and actually read the source article, instead of trusting National Revoo's "analysis."

According to the DoE, they have completed weatherization on 124,000 homes so far. At a cost of $522 million.

$522,000,000 / 124,000 = $4,209.67 per home.

Where did you get the 124,000 number?


9,100 homes had been weatherized nationwide as of Dec. 31, according to the new report by the Government Accountability Office

or

The Department of Energy, which runs the program, said it actually weatherized more than 22,000 homes

89 Lidane  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:52:46pm

re: #79 Guanxi88

Wanna a slice of Austin life?

Leslie Cochran is our de facto mayor.

Heh. Leslie is awesome. I love that guy.

I worked on 6th Street for a while when a friend of mine was short staffed at her bar, and I would see him a lot. He's cool.

90 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:53:01pm

re: #87 badger1970

..and to think I thought he was only a con-artist, business extortionist. //

Not, not only a con artist and extortionist - he's all that and more.

91 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:53:31pm

re: #86 Guanxi88

Now don't start that. "Lily-white" tells me you don't know our demographics: around 36% state-wide are Hispanic or Latino.

They will not be the ones in charge.

92 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:53:57pm

...Sigh...

93 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:53:57pm

The poll appears to show Texans are in line with other Americans.

This poll in Texas: 35% believe in evolution.

National poll 39% believe in evolution.

Gallup poll

With the small sample size and sampling errors, there is a mere cat's whisker between the result for Texas and the nation wide poll.

94 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:54:08pm

re: #91 LudwigVanQuixote

They will not be the ones in charge.

Don't tell them that. Really, Texas is a lot more complicated than it would at first appear.

95 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:55:31pm

re: #93 Bagua

Which is amazingly pathetic. Absolutely. Pathetic. Soon, we will no longer be the leaders in science, assuming, of course, that we still are.
:(

96 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:55:37pm

*rolls eyes*

97 drcordell  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:55:59pm

re: #86 Guanxi88

Now don't start that. "Lily-white" tells me you don't know our demographics: around 36% state-wide are Hispanic or Latino.

But as we all know, re: #88 Buck

Where did you get the 124,000 number?

9,100 homes had been weatherized nationwide as of Dec. 31, according to the new report by the Government Accountability Office

or

The Department of Energy, which runs the program, said it actually weatherized more than 22,000 homes

Well, conveniently the National Review seems to have left the 124,000 number out of their quotes from the ABC source article. How strange!

If you click through to ABC, you get to read this part of the story:
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]


About $522 million Recovery Act dollars have been spent so far on weatherization, or about 10 percent of the $5 billion set aside for the program, the Department of Energy said.

But Energy Department officials pointed out that the department weatherization program that pre-dates the Recovery Act and is not subject to Davis-Bacon requirements. Including that program, the Department financed the weatherization of about 124,000 homes in 2009.

Now, this sentence is rather vaguely worded, so it seems there may be some room for interpretation here. But I would interpret it to mean that they have been using stimulus money to fund their previously existing weatherization program. Which brings the total up to 124,000.

98 HoosierHoops  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:56:11pm

re: #91 LudwigVanQuixote

They will not be the ones in charge.

Hi Ludwig!
Hope today finds you well...
I had a post on Scientists a few days ago.. tired of them being trashed by the GOP
___
On a very positive note during this discussion of AGW..
This is going to give our Scientists whom I deeply respect.. Better Software tools..More Weather Stations globally..More Climate model programming skills..
More publishing on the web.. More Money for studies...

In case anyone forgot.. It was a scientist that explained the general rules of the universe.. The laptop you are blogging on.. The medicine that keeps you alive..Space ships and the connecting plane ride you took today.. The GPS device you use..The car you drive the food you eat..the water you drink..The world we live in..Except for the air you breathe..Everything
is because of scientists and their work for us..
I hail them as hero's..
If you feel a few emails changes all that I feel sorry for you...You politicized this GOP..You lashed out at thousands of a good people and made this a party issue..Not a science issue...

99 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:56:18pm

re: #95 Varek Raith

Which is amazingly pathetic. Absolutely. Pathetic. Soon, we will no longer be the leaders in science, assuming, of course, that we still are.
:(

Dr. Gupta will see you now.

100 freetoken  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:57:01pm

Fresno college instructor defends course content

A Fresno City College instructor is disputing student claims that he presented his religious views on homosexuality, abortion and global warming in class as fact.

The American Civil Liberties Union sent a letter to the college earlier this month, complaining that health science instructor Bradley Lopez was violating California laws prohibiting religious indoctrination at public schools.

The group said it was acting on behalf of two students.

Lopez held a news conference Thursday, saying his teaching methods, which included assigning students to research the Bible for Jesus' genetic makeup, fall "within the scope of health science." And he said the ACLU's letter is the first time in his 18-year career that anyone has complained about him.

Genetics in the Bible? Who knew?

101 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:57:11pm

re: #99 Guanxi88

Dr. Gupta will see you now.

Uh oh, what do I got???

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:57:22pm

re: #99 Guanxi88

Dr. Gupta will see you now.

My dad saw a Dr. Gupta for a while. I recommend Dr. Gupta highly.

103 drcordell  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:58:24pm

re: #97 drcordell

Now, this sentence is rather vaguely worded, so it seems there may be some room for interpretation here. But I would interpret it to mean that they have been using stimulus money to fund their previously existing weatherization program. Which brings the total up to 124,000.

UPDATE: the GAO has confirmed to the LA Times that the 124,000 number is indeed accurate.
[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

"The GAO report cites figures from September 2009 -- almost five months out of date. Since then, we have resolved Davis-Bacon wage issues in all 50 states, clarified how states should handle historic preservation and worked with states to resolve any remaining barriers. As a result, by the end of 2009, our programs had weatherized about 124,000 homes in total, and we are on track to weatherize more than 250,000 this year. In fact, since September 2009, we have tripled the pace of Recovery Act funded home weatherization. The report also erroneously implies that our goal was to weatherize 593,000 homes in 2009. That is wrong. The goal has been to weatherize that number by March 2012, and we are on track to meet that goal."

104 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:58:24pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

My dad saw a Dr. Gupta for a while. I recommend Dr. Gupta highly.

That's almost what my great-grandmother said. I paraphrase her senile dementia:

"If I can't see one of our people, I'll see an Indian, or I'll die from it."

105 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:58:31pm

re: #99 Guanxi88

Dr. Gupta will see you now.

I just had a weird moment because the only "Gupta" I know is "Henry Gupta" from Tomorrow Never Dies...

106 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:58:48pm

re: #95 Varek Raith

Which is amazingly pathetic. Absolutely. Pathetic. Soon, we will no longer be the leaders in science, assuming, of course, that we still are.
:(

The results are different for college graduates at 53% and post-graduates at 74%.

What is not noted is what they studied in college. I'm not sure how much biology an art major would be required to pass for example.

107 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 1:59:03pm

re: #101 Varek Raith

Uh oh, what do I got???

A nation full of liberal arts majors.

108 spare o'lake  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:00:20pm

Beyond amazing.
Shoot the pollsters.

109 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:00:45pm

re: #95 Varek Raith

Which is amazingly pathetic. Absolutely. Pathetic. Soon, we will no longer be the leaders in science, assuming, of course, that we still are.
:(

Not if Obama and the Dems have their way to invest in education and technology. If we get a Republican Congress, then it might be a problem.

110 HoosierHoops  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:00:47pm

re: #107 Guanxi88

A nation full of liberal arts majors.

What does a Liberal Arts Major ask you?
Refill?
*Ducking*

111 freetoken  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:00:57pm

re: #106 Bagua

I'm not sure how much biology an art major would be required to pass for example.

Be assured, by the time someone is awarded an MFA they have been thoroughly infused with marxist ideology and therefore would be openly hostile to the Truth as revealed literally by God.

112 The Shadow Do  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:01:07pm

re: #101 Varek Raith

Uh oh, what do I got???

Hmm, the doctor is in...

Looks bad, feels bad...no, that's not it
Looks good, feels bad...no
Looks bad, feels good...Aha!

113 jaunte  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:01:43pm

re: #106 Bagua

The results are different for college graduates at 53% and post-graduates at 74%.

What is not noted is what they studied in college. I'm not sure how much biology an art major would be required to pass for example.

From my own experience, 2 semesters.

114 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:01:51pm

re: #108 spare o'lake

Beyond amazing.
Shoot the pollsters.

/Yes, let me be the first to say, death to all those who would dare tell us that America can do anything wrong!

115 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:02:17pm

Ryan Sorba of California Young Americans for Freedom just condemned CPAC for allow GOPride to attend!

The crowd is hooting at him. Some real hostility here.

116 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:02:23pm

re: #95 Varek Raith

Which is amazingly pathetic. Absolutely. Pathetic. Soon, we will no longer be the leaders in science, assuming, of course, that we still are.
:(

Interestingly -
In the poll Bagua pointed to:
College graduates accept evolutionary theory at 82% and those with post-graduate degrees at 86%.

So we can hope that since those who accept evolutionary theory are those more likely to become scientists to begin with, we can at least hang in there.

117 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:02:56pm

re: #111 freetoken

Be assured, by the time someone is awarded an MFA they have been thoroughly infused with marxist ideology and therefore would be openly hostile to the Truth as revealed literally by God.

A MFA? That is post-graduate is it not? They poll much higher at 74%.

118 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:02:59pm

re: #115 Charles

Ryan Sorba of California Young Americans for Freedom just condemned CPAC for allow GOPride to attend!

The crowd is hooting at him. Some real hostility here.

Hooting in disagreement, or hooting a la the Arsenio Hall program?

119 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:03:25pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout

You may be right, I am rather cynical, after all.
;)

120 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:03:49pm

re: #103 drcordell

This has been standard procedure since the election. Right wing pundits and bloggers turn out dishonest and twisted numbers on the economy and stimulus package. Remember when they said the government was paying $30,000 for a single ham?

121 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:04:01pm

re: #115 Charles

Ryan Sorba of California Young Americans for Freedom just condemned CPAC for allow GOPride to attend!

The crowd is hooting at him. Some real hostility here.

I don't know how to take this...

On one hand condemning CPAC, YAY!

On the other hand, doing it because they were open to gays, BOO!

The crowd doesn't like him, YAY!

Would that crowd be doing the same if he was condemning CPAC because they let the Birchers come...

122 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:04:40pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

This has been standard procedure since the election. Right wing pundits and bloggers turn out dishonest and twisted numbers on the economy and stimulus package. Remember when they said the government was paying $30,000 for a single ham?

No it was 30,000 for two pounds of ham...

123 drcordell  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:04:56pm

re: #115 Charles

Ryan Sorba of California Young Americans for Freedom just condemned CPAC for allow GOPride to attend!

The crowd is hooting at him. Some real hostility here.

At least he's being honest. I have zero respect for bigots. I have even less respect for bigots who aren't strong enough to publicly represent their bigoted views.

124 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:06:02pm

What's the term for someone bigoted against stupidity???
;)

125 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:06:19pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout

Interestingly -
In the poll Bagua pointed to:
College graduates accept evolutionary theory at 82% and those with post-graduate degrees at 86%.

So we can hope that since those who accept evolutionary theory are those more likely to become scientists to begin with, we can at least hang in there.

Also interesting to speculate on the background of those polled, many of them might not have had much biology in high school at all. So either way, their beliefs at that point are based more on beliefs than knowledge.

126 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:06:39pm

re: #124 Varek Raith

What's the term for someone bigoted against stupidity???
;)

clever?
safe?
reasonable?

feel free to add others.

127 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:07:12pm

re: #124 Varek Raith

What's the term for someone bigoted against stupidity???
;)

Snob?

128 SixDegrees  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:07:19pm

re: #115 Charles

Ryan Sorba of California Young Americans for Freedom just condemned CPAC for allow GOPride to attend!

The crowd is hooting at him. Some real hostility here.

I'm a little unclear. Hostility against his statement? That sounds like a good thing.

129 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:07:54pm

re: #127 Bagua

Snob?

Elitist?

130 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:07:58pm

re: #119 Varek Raith

You may be right, I am rather cynical, after all.
;)

I suspect the numbers are similar to what they've been all along. I wish I knew for sure.

I have a neighbor who is one of those who believes man and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time, and the earth is only about 6000 years old.
I was just floored when I heard that.

131 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:08:05pm

re: #128 SixDegrees

I'm a little unclear. Hostility against his statement? That sounds like a good thing.

Yeah, are they hooting against him, or hooting and hollering in agreement?

132 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:08:41pm

I have more in common genetically with my dog than I do with these people.

At least, I hope so...

133 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:09:02pm

re: #125 Bagua

Also interesting to speculate on the background of those polled, many of them might not have had much biology in high school at all. So either way, their beliefs at that point are based more on beliefs than knowledge.

Did you mean to say that their beliefs at HS level are based more on faith than knowledge?

134 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:09:05pm

I'm going to post the video in a few minutes. That was an interesting moment.

135 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:09:27pm

re: #129 jamesfirecat

Elitist?

That works.

136 drcordell  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:09:44pm

re: #130 reine.de.tout

I suspect the numbers are similar to what they've been all along. I wish I knew for sure.

I have a neighbor who is one of those who believes man and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time, and the earth is only about 6000 years old.
I was just floored when I heard that.

It's an interesting experience when you run into folks such as your neighbor. Honestly I find it to be an extremely awkward situation, because I don't really know what to say. What can you say?

137 ED 209  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:09:55pm

Unfortunately near half the population is of below average intelligence; most of the rest aren't too bright.

138 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:09:57pm

re: #127 Bagua

Snob?

That works, I'm so very condescending when I argue with people who I know are stupid.
;)
/Elitist!

139 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:11:14pm

Oh my goodness - anyone watching this guy? Greg Mangum?

140 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:11:15pm

re: #136 drcordell

It's an interesting experience when you run into folks such as your neighbor. Honestly I find it to be an extremely awkward situation, because I don't really know what to say. What can you say?

Trust me, I brutally blunt about what I'd say in that situation.

141 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:11:44pm

re: #124 Varek Raith

What's the term for someone bigoted against stupidity???
;)

Anti-Idiotarian. Period.

142 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:11:47pm

re: #140 Varek Raith

Trust me, I'm brutally blunt about what I'd say in that situation.


Damn, typo...

143 Buck  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:12:20pm

re: #97 drcordell

Wow, you accuse someone of ignoring something?

From the ABC story...


"The Department of Energy, which runs the program, said it actually weatherized more than 22,000 homes last year with Recovery Act funds."


AND

"About $522 million Recovery Act dollars have been spent so far on weatherization, or about 10 percent of the $5 billion set aside for the program, the Department of Energy said."

Nothing vague about that. You think they said "more than 22,000" but really meant 124,000?

Yes, the 22,000 is as of Sept 09, and so is the $522 million.

The figure is a snapshot of the program as of the GAO report.

You can't move the 22,000 forward to the end of 2009 and leave the $522 million figure which was as of Sept 2009.

You not only have to know math, but understanding English helps as well.

144 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:12:38pm

"Jail cell walls coming down and conservatives coming in!!"

...Mangum

145 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:12:54pm

re: #133 reine.de.tout

Did you mean to say that their beliefs at HS level are based more on faith than knowledge?

It would depend on their education to date, if they have not yet studied biology, and especially evolutionary biology, then on what basis would they 'believe' or 'disbelieve' a theory they have not yet learned?

146 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:13:13pm

re: #144 Stanley Sea

"Jail cell walls coming down and conservatives coming in!!"

...Mangum

What the hell is that supposed to even mean???

147 SixDegrees  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:14:33pm

re: #136 drcordell

It's an interesting experience when you run into folks such as your neighbor. Honestly I find it to be an extremely awkward situation, because I don't really know what to say. What can you say?

I would start from the position that a teachable moment may have presented itself. Ask for an explanation, ask for an explanation of the abundant counter-evidence. See if they can be led to a more rational position. And keep the vitriol tightly corked, at least until they open theirs, or even a good while afterward.

I tend to be very, very nasty and point blank about this topic - with the leaders. The followers at least deserve a chance to change their mind; it's likely they've never really given the matter a whole lot of thought in the first place.

148 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:15:01pm

re: #98 HoosierHoops

Hi Ludwig!
Hope today finds you well...
I had a post on Scientists a few days ago.. tired of them being trashed by the GOP
___
On a very positive note during this discussion of AGW..
This is going to give our Scientists whom I deeply respect.. Better Software tools..More Weather Stations globally..More Climate model programming skills..
More publishing on the web.. More Money for studies...

In case anyone forgot.. It was a scientist that explained the general rules of the universe.. The laptop you are blogging on.. The medicine that keeps you alive..Space ships and the connecting plane ride you took today.. The GPS device you use..The car you drive the food you eat..the water you drink..The world we live in..Except for the air you breathe..Everything
is because of scientists and their work for us..
I hail them as hero's..
If you feel a few emails changes all that I feel sorry for you...You politicized this GOP..You lashed out at thousands of a good people and made this a party issue..Not a science issue...

Love it hoops! I am so sorry that I got called away and missed your post earlier. I also have to get ready for sundown.

Wishing all lizards a great weekend!

149 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:15:04pm

re: #146 Varek Raith

What the hell is that supposed to even mean???

No flipping idea. He's 21 and just spit out about 32 talking points in 1 minute, including the std. Christian founding of America.

150 spare o'lake  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:15:06pm

With poll results like these, is it any wonder that so many politicians hold the electorate in such contempt?

151 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:15:21pm

re: #136 drcordell

It's an interesting experience when you run into folks such as your neighbor. Honestly I find it to be an extremely awkward situation, because I don't really know what to say. What can you say?

Nothing.
Particularly if they're 80 years old.

152 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:15:30pm

Basic failures in teaching literature and the difference between various literary genres.

It should be obvious to all that the Flintstones was not a documentary, it was an animated sitcom. But, more importantly, the Bible is not a science textbook, neither is it a history.

It is a a set of Testaments, and a testament is a statement of faith. It contains that information that the authors present to support the reason they believe in what they profess.

It can be selective, it can be incomplete, it can even be metaphorical, allegorical or even unfactual, it serves simply to explain why these people believe what they believe.

That is not science, that is not history, that is not statistics.

It is scary that these most basic disctinctions are lost on so many people who have been ostensibly sent to school or received some sort of equivalent degree or certification.

153 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:15:44pm

You can sum up evolution in about five sentences, and it's understandable. Hell, you can do it in one.

Natural selection acts upon populations to promote genetic tendencies that favor survival and propagation.

You can take about two hours and teach a really solid understanding of natural selection. It's a very elegant concept, but not difficult to comprehend.

A lot of the outputs are harder to get, of course.

154 jaunte  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:16:00pm

re: #130 reine.de.tout

I suspect the numbers are similar to what they've been all along. I wish I knew for sure.

I have a neighbor who is one of those who believes man and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time, and the earth is only about 6000 years old.
I was just floored when I heard that.

One of my employees came out with the "I didn't come from a monkey" line one day a few months back. It's surprising coming from someone you think you know.

155 HoosierHoops  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:16:14pm

I did something so stupid today I have been just kicking myself in the ass for hours.. I am so stupid...
My brand new HP EliteBook 6930p arrived today...
It is awesome,,, played with it for hours in the Docking Station..
Pitched the boxes...
I threw away the damn battery for my new laptop...
I have to buy a new battery for my new laptop..
Today Lizards.. I accept the award for dumbest move...
Dang it!

156 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:16:22pm

re: #150 spare o'lake

With poll results like these, is it any wonder that so many politicians hold the electorate in such contempt?

I know I sure do!
/ducks

157 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:21pm

As for college education and science. I'm a history major and they require us two semesters of laboratory science for my degree. It doesn't have to be biology. It can be chemistry, physics, or astronomy and perhaps some others I am forgetting. As for the YAF leader I am not surprised they're booing him but as I've said most young people regardless of political persuasion are fairly to the left on certain cultural issues.

158 Silvergirl  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:23pm

OT: I'll be supporting Romney simply on the strength of his Vulcan Grip

(I just got in on the story, so if it's old news . . . oops)

159 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:26pm

re: #155 HoosierHoops

I did something so stupid today I have been just kicking myself in the ass for hours.. I am so stupid...
My brand new HP EliteBook 6930p arrived today...
It is awesome,,, played with it for hours in the Docking Station..
Pitched the boxes...
I threw away the damn battery for my new laptop...
I have to buy a new battery for my new laptop..
Today Lizards.. I accept the award for dumbest move...
Dang it!

Trash be gone, I assume?

Bummer Hoops.

160 Flame Fin Tomini Tang  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:26pm

How civilizations start down the hill.//

161 blueraven  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:34pm

Ugh...this makes me embarrassed for my state. At least I can take some solace in the fact that I live in Austin. Barring the disturbing event from yesterday, this is a much more sensible part of the state. I am pretty sure the polling stats here would look a little different.

Perry has been in office more than long enough already. If he wins this election, it will be 14 years of him and his cronies messing with Texas education.

162 Buck  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:34pm

re: #155 HoosierHoops

I did something so stupid today I have been just kicking myself in the ass for hours.. I am so stupid...
My brand new HP EliteBook 6930p arrived today...
It is awesome,,, played with it for hours in the Docking Station..
Pitched the boxes...
I threw away the damn battery for my new laptop...
I have to buy a new battery for my new laptop..
Today Lizards.. I accept the award for dumbest move...
Dang it!

I would keep the boxes, at least until the warranty is over...

Next time...

163 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:45pm

re: #154 jaunte

One of my employees came out with the "I didn't come from a monkey" line one day a few months back. It's surprising coming from someone you think you know.

Yeah - my wife runs with a buncha Baptists. I hear that kinda thing from time to time from some of them.

Nothing to do about it, of course.

164 SixDegrees  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:50pm

re: #152 ralphieboy

Basic failures in teaching literature and the difference between various literary genres.

It should be obvious to all that the Flintstones was not a documentary, it was an animated sitcom. But, more importantly, the Bible is not a science textbook, neither is it a history.

It is a a set of Testaments, and a testament is a statement of faith. It contains that information that the authors present to support the reason they believe in what they profess.

It can be selective, it can be incomplete, it can even be metaphorical, allegorical or even unfactual, it serves simply to explain why these people believe what they believe.

That is not science, that is not history, that is not statistics.

It is scary that these most basic disctinctions are lost on so many people who have been ostensibly sent to school or received some sort of equivalent degree or certification.

All true, as is the observation that religion concerns itself with aspects of human existence that science does not, and vice versa.

165 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:17:59pm

re: #153 Obdicut

And, to Dennet/Dawkin-ize it:

Natural selection is an algorithmic process that describes how selfish replicators propagate in design space.

Doesn't have to be organisms in a population. Can be any selfish replicators.

166 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:18:16pm

re: #155 HoosierHoops

A silly mistake to be sure, but don't waste any energy kicking yourself in the ass for it. Just turn around an let me do it for you.

:kick:

167 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:18:24pm

re: #154 jaunte

One of my employees came out with the "I didn't come from a monkey" line one day a few months back. It's surprising coming from someone you think you know.

Right - it really is.

And we don't know what we evolved from, do we?
All that is speculated is that it was some sort of ape-like animal.
And if you look at the great apes compared to humans, it just ain't hard to see the resemblance, IMHO.

168 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:18:34pm

re: #115 Charles

Ryan Sorba of California Young Americans for Freedom just condemned CPAC for allow GOPride to attend!

The crowd is hooting at him. Some real hostility here.

Well, at least they're mad at HIM.

169 ED 209  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:19:22pm

re: #155 HoosierHoops

See #137

;)

170 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:19:45pm

re: #164 SixDegrees

All true, as is the observation that religion concerns itself with aspects of human existence that science does not, and vice versa.

I'd argue against that.

I believe that subscribing to the "God of the Gaps" theory will inevitably create more problems than it solves.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

171 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:19:45pm

re: #167 reine.de.tout

Right - it really is.

And we don't know what we evolved from, do we?
All that is speculated is that it was some sort of ape-like animal.
And if you look at the great apes compared to humans, it just ain't hard to see the resemblance, IMHO.

Speak for yourself, I look more like a chimp than an ape.

172 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:20:06pm

re: #161 blueraven

Ugh...this makes me embarrassed for my state. At least I can take some solace in the fact that I live in Austin. Barring the disturbing event from yesterday, this is a much more sensible part of the state. I am pretty sure the polling stats here would look a little different.

Perry has been in office more than long enough already. If he wins this election, it will be 14 years of him and his cronies messing with Texas education.

Damn! You're one of, what, four Austinites on here right now?

173 SixDegrees  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:20:29pm

re: #170 jamesfirecat

I'd argue against that.

I believe that subscribing to the "God of the Gaps" theory will inevitably create more problems than it solves.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

That's not even close to what I was referring to.

174 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:20:37pm

Agh I feel dumb, I read it all wrong I didn't realize he was criticizing CPAC for allowing a gay group to attend. Sorry, my eyes deceive me at times.

175 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:21:02pm

Ron Paul!

176 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:21:20pm

re: #173 SixDegrees

That's not even close to what I was referring to.

Sorry must have misread you.

177 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:21:21pm

Time for ZOMGitsCriss to do a Texas Tour.

178 HoosierHoops  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:21:33pm

re: #162 Buck

I would keep the boxes, at least until the warranty is over...

Next time...

I'll bet buying a new battery for a new model laptop is going to be pricey..
I am so dumb sometimes!

179 The Shadow Do  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:21:41pm

RON PAUL!

*puke*

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:21:42pm

re: #146 Varek Raith

What the hell is that supposed to even mean???

That the conservatives are going to let all the criminals out of jail? That doesn't sound like their usual MO.

181 Silvergirl  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:22:04pm

re: #171 Bagua

Speak for yourself, I look more like a chimp than an ape.

My resemblance is more like the spider monkey.

What are you talking about? The Flintstones? More Betty than Wilma.

182 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:22:16pm

END THE FED!111!!!1!1eleventy~~

183 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:22:31pm

re: #171 Bagua

Speak for yourself, I look more like a chimp than an ape.

AWwww-
You must be really cute, then!

184 HoosierHoops  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:22:31pm

re: #166 Slumbering Behemoth

A silly mistake to be sure, but don't waste any energy kicking yourself in the ass for it. Just turn around an let me do it for you.

:kick:

The difference between a pat on the back and a kick in the ass is about 20 inches

185 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:22:34pm

re: #161 blueraven

Ugh...this makes me embarrassed for my state.

Why should it? It is about the national average.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

186 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:22:36pm

re: #164 SixDegrees

or that religion is about why we came to be here, science is about how we got to be here.

The Vatican is intellectually founded enough to see no conflict, but for fundamentalist literalists who still need and require an interventionist god, there is a conflict.

187 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:22:39pm

Most inept use of the word "speechless" ever.

188 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:22:47pm

re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist

That the conservatives are going to let all the criminals out of jail? That doesn't sound like their usual MO.

Must not make joke about Huckabee...

(Seriously, what the people he let out jail went on to do is horrible...)

189 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:23:10pm

re: #183 reine.de.tout

AWwww-
You must be really cute, then!

I've been told I'm very cuddly.

190 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:23:15pm

I have to say I am proud of the fact I never got Ron Paul fever. Remember some others on my side who liked Paul because he was libertarian on certain social issues and against the war but his economic positions always struck me as backwards.

191 blueraven  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:23:24pm

re: #172 Guanxi88

Damn! You're one of, what, four Austinites on here right now?

Over 30 years! You are in Austin too? Cool.

192 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:23:51pm

Non interventionist foreign policy...Isolationism? That's what they're cheering?!

193 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:24:05pm

re: #185 Bagua

Why should it? It is about the national average.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yeah, that definitely make me feel better./

I am embarrassed for my nation.

194 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:24:45pm

re: #191 blueraven

Over 30 years! You are in Austin too? Cool.

Yeah, I think badger is, I know Lidane is, and there's a fellow comes on here from time to time - james or something like that - got the 78704 right on his avatar!

Austin in the house!

195 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:25:05pm

re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist

That the conservatives are going to let all the criminals out of jail? That doesn't sound like their usual MO.

I think he's going to jail the incumbents. Or something like that.

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:25:10pm

re: #192 Varek Raith

Non interventionist foreign policy...Isolationism? That's what they're cheering?!

The paleocons are back in town.

197 SixDegrees  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:26:03pm

re: #186 ralphieboy

or that religion is about why we came to be here, science is about how we got to be here.

The Vatican is intellectually founded enough to see no conflict, but for fundamentalist literalists who still need and require an interventionist god, there is a conflict.

Correct. There is, after all, something fundamentally ineffable about the existence of anything.

198 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:26:12pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

The paleocons are back in town.

That's not how that song goes.

199 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:26:57pm

re: #197 SixDegrees

Correct. There is, after all, something fundamentally ineffable about the existence of anything.

yep, you can't go effing about with it, can you?

200 Silvergirl  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:27:37pm

re: #190 HappyWarrior

I have to say I am proud of the fact I never got Ron Paul fever. Remember some others on my side who liked Paul because he was libertarian on certain social issues and against the war but his economic positions always struck me as backwards.

Cow bell, then? Did you succumb to Cow Bell Fever?

201 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:27:50pm

re: #152 ralphieboy

Basic failures in teaching literature and the difference between various literary genres.

It should be obvious to all that the Flintstones was not a documentary, it was an animated sitcom. But, more importantly, the Bible is not a science textbook, neither is it a history.

It is a a set of Testaments, and a testament is a statement of faith. It contains that information that the authors present to support the reason they believe in what they profess.

It can be selective, it can be incomplete, it can even be metaphorical, allegorical or even unfactual, it serves simply to explain why these people believe what they believe.

That is not science, that is not history, that is not statistics.

It is scary that these most basic disctinctions are lost on so many people who have been ostensibly sent to school or received some sort of equivalent degree or certification.

Half-right.

The Bible is not a set of "Testaments", whatever that means.

It is a library. The very word comes from Greek, τα βιβλια, from biblion, "the book". Hence, it means "the books".

This particular library contains myth, saga, legend, poetry, metaphor, science fiction, hallucinatory visions, and, yes, history. Maybe not history by today's standards, with footnotes and bibliography (there's that word again!), but history. Which is why, when we read about King Hezekiah ordering the construction of a tunnel from the Gihon Spring to the Pool of Siloam, we can not only identify the tunnel but go there and walk through it. Been there, done that. It was built to bring water inside the walls of Jerusalem when the city was under attack by the Assyrians. The water still flows today. It's an amazing experience for anyone who does not suffer from claustrophobia.

The problem comes when people confuse the genres.

202 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:28:29pm

re: #154 jaunte

One of my employees came out with the "I didn't come from a monkey" line one day a few months back. It's surprising coming from someone you think you know.

I believe there's a "yo mama" joke in there somewhere...

203 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:29:18pm

re: #155 HoosierHoops

I did something so stupid today I have been just kicking myself in the ass for hours.. I am so stupid...
My brand new HP EliteBook 6930p arrived today...
It is awesome,,, played with it for hours in the Docking Station..
Pitched the boxes...
I threw away the damn battery for my new laptop...
I have to buy a new battery for my new laptop..
Today Lizards.. I accept the award for dumbest move...
Dang it!

Oh, damn. Sorry, Hoopster.

204 blueraven  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:29:48pm

re: #194 Guanxi88

Yeah, I think badger is, I know Lidane is, and there's a fellow comes on here from time to time - james or something like that - got the 78704 right on his avatar!

Austin in the house!

Just keeping Austin Weird. :)

I would wager we don't believe Dinosaurs roamed the earth stalking our ancestors either.

205 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:30:34pm

re: #177 wrenchwench

Time for ZOMGitsCriss to do a Texas Tour.

I'm there like frosting on a hot cross bun!

206 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:30:35pm

re: #201 Cato the Elder


The problem comes when people confuse the genres.

Agreed, gender confusion can lead to problems.

207 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:30:52pm

re: #204 blueraven

Just keeping Austin Weird. :)

I would wager we don't believe Dinosaurs roamed the earth stalking our ancestors either.

Fun times all around.

Stay warm, my friend, and hang on - supposed to be really nice tomorrow. Gonna go watch some Lion Dancers for the New Year.

208 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:31:10pm

re: #200 Silvergirl

Cow bell, then? Did you succumb to Cow Bell Fever?

Of course, everything needs a little cowbell.

209 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:32:18pm

re: #35 jamesfirecat

Orks iz made fah puntin and sackin!

We iz da Orks an' Orks is da best!

210 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:32:37pm

re: #206 Bagua

Agreed, gender confusion can lead to problems.

Genre identity confusion is a common problem with half-educated lit-crit grad students.

211 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:32:49pm

re: #201 Cato the Elder

Half-right.

The Bible is not a set of "Testaments", whatever that means.

It is a library. The very word comes from Greek, τα βιβλια, from biblion, "the book". Hence, it means "the books".

This particular library contains myth, saga, legend, poetry, metaphor, science fiction, hallucinatory visions, and, yes, history. Maybe not history by today's standards, with footnotes and bibliography (there's that word again!), but history. Which is why, when we read about King Hezekiah ordering the construction of a tunnel from the Gihon Spring to the Pool of Siloam, we can not only identify the tunnel but go there and walk through it. Been there, done that. It was built to bring water inside the walls of Jerusalem when the city was under attack by the Assyrians. The water still flows today. It's an amazing experience for anyone who does not suffer from claustrophobia.

The problem comes when people confuse the genres.


It is not that a testament cannot (or should not) contain verifiable facts, but it is not required to be comprehensive, complete or even correct.

The rules are different for science, history, biography or news reporting.

212 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:33:01pm

re: #205 Cato the Elder

I'm there like frosting on a hot cross bun!

ZOMGitscriss frakking rocks! :D

213 badger1970  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:33:07pm

re: #194 Guanxi88

Not native but live in the Austin area. 6th Street Austin reminds me of State Street in Madison.

214 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:33:28pm

re: #211 ralphieboy

It is not that a testament cannot (or should not) contain verifiable facts, but it is not required to be comprehensive, complete or even correct.

The rules are different for science, history, biography or news reporting.

You are confused about the meaning of the word "testament".

215 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:34:14pm

re: #210 Cato the Elder

Genre identity confusion is a common problem with half-educated lit-crit grad students.

I beg your pardon?

*ominous look*

216 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:34:58pm

re: #215 celticdragon

I beg your pardon?

*ominous look*

Whatcha gonna do, big fella? Sic the MLA on me?

Bring it!

217 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:36:21pm

re: #211 ralphieboy

It is not that a testament cannot (or should not) contain verifiable facts, but it is not required to be comprehensive, complete or even correct.

Yet it is often considered invalid without a stamp from a Notary Public.

218 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:36:23pm

re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, at least they're mad at HIM.

At least that is something...

219 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:36:25pm

re: #207 Guanxi88

Fun times all around.

Stay warm, my friend, and hang on - supposed to be really nice tomorrow. Gonna go watch some Lion Dancers for the New Year.

Shouldn't they be Tiger Dancers?

220 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:40:00pm

re: #214 Cato the Elder

You are confused about the meaning of the word "testament".

testament as in "a statement of belief".

An explanation of what one believes in and why.

That is certainly what the new Testament is about: a statement of why these fellows believe that jesus Christ was the Son of God and the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Old Testament.

They are not a biography of his life, they concern themselves little with the facts or details of his early life, save those that shed light on their assertion that he is the Son of God.

They are not a history, they often overlap, but sometimes contradict each other in details.

They contain no footnotes, and were composed based on accounts that would qualify as "unsubstantiated" by modern standards of histriography, science or news reporting.

This does not detract from the strength of their message, but it does disqualify their use as a science textbook, and that is the point I am trying to make here.

221 blueraven  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:40:40pm

re: #213 badger1970

Not native but live in the Austin area. 6th Street Austin reminds me of State Street in Madison.

Hi neighbor!

Enjoy the Lion Dancers Guanxi88.

Looking forward to that warmer weather.

222 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:40:52pm

re: #216 Cato the Elder

Whatcha gonna do, big fella? Sic the MLA on me?

Bring it!

I am a transgendered woman. However funny it is to late night comedians, GID is not funny at all to people who try to deal with it, nor to the families who are usually ripped apart. I personally wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Also, I resent being lumped in with lit crit people. I am a geology major. We are far more hip than lit crit geeks...

We also tend to throw large, random rock specimens at people who annoy us!

223 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:41:23pm

re: #95 Varek Raith

Which is amazingly pathetic. Absolutely. Pathetic. Soon, we will no longer be the leaders in science, assuming, of course, that we still are.
:(

The LHC was built for approximately the same amount the CBO says we flush down the toilet wisely and judiciously spend in one month in Iraq.

Just saying.

224 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:41:29pm

re: #222 celticdragon

The word was 'genre'.

225 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:42:29pm

re: #224 Obdicut

The word was 'genre'.

I know. The joke riffed off that into another territory, which mildly annoyed me.

226 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:44:28pm

re: #220 ralphieboy

testament as in "a statement of belief".

An explanation of what one believes in and why.

That is certainly what the new Testament is about: a statement of why these fellows believe that jesus Christ was the Son of God and the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Old Testament.

They are not a biography of his life, they concern themselves little with the facts or details of his early life, save those that shed light on their assertion that he is the Son of God.

They are not a history, they often overlap, but sometimes contradict each other in details.

They contain no footnotes, and were composed based on accounts that would qualify as "unsubstantiated" by modern standards of histriography, science or news reporting.

This does not detract from the strength of their message, but it does disqualify their use as a science textbook, and that is the point I am trying to make here.

The history bits in the Hebrew Bible were not written as "testaments" - they were written as history. The Song of Solomon is an erotic poem and is not a "testament". Many of the letters of Saint Paul and others were just that - letters. Chatty accounts of life in prison, requests for money and clothes, advice to fellow Christians, notes on how to deal with runaway slaves. Not "testaments" or even statements of belief.

As I said, you were half-right. If you continue harping on the word "testament", you will be all wrong.

227 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:44:32pm

re: #225 celticdragon

I know. The joke riffed off that into another territory, which mildly annoyed me.

genre-tales?

228 Bagua  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:45:22pm

re: #225 celticdragon

I know. The joke riffed off that into another territory, which mildly annoyed me.

Agreed, no one should make light of others sufferings.

Cato and I suffer from a fascination with words and their meanings and distortions. His suffering is ancient compared with mine.

229 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:45:36pm

re: #222 celticdragon

I am a transgendered woman. However funny it is to late night comedians, GID is not funny at all to people who try to deal with it, nor to the families who are usually ripped apart. I personally wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Also, I resent being lumped in with lit crit people. I am a geology major. We are far more hip than lit crit geeks...

We also tend to throw large, random rock specimens at people who annoy us!

So "genre identity confusion" is off limits? For cod's sake, it's a pun.

230 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:46:29pm

re: #227 ralphieboy

genre-tales?

Oh fer Pete's sake!

*bangs head into table...goes downstairs for bandages and a beer*

231 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:48:48pm

re: #226 Cato the Elder

The history bits in the Hebrew Bible were not written as "testaments" - they were written as history. The Song of Solomon is an erotic poem and is not a "testament". Many of the letters of Saint Paul and others were just that - letters. Chatty accounts of life in prison, requests for money and clothes, advice to fellow Christians, notes on how to deal with runaway slaves. Not "testaments" or even statements of belief.

As I said, you were half-right. If you continue harping on the word "testament", you will be all wrong.


Other books of the Bible, such as the Books of Job, Ruth and Jonah, however, were not written as histories, they were fictional accounts, designed to address and elucidates points of doctrinal dispute at the time. To take them literally or historically would be incorrect, as one is not to take the parpables of jesus literally.

And I did not state that the histories contained in the Bible are incorrect, they can serve as primary historical documents when compared and validated against other sources.

But some of these were also rewritten and altered after the fact in order to support various assertions of belief and faith, and can be treated at best as reference points and not as hitories in the modern sense.

232 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:50:48pm

re: #229 Cato the Elder

So "genre identity confusion" is off limits? For cod's sake, it's a pun.

I can't see you nor can I read your body language, which makes it difficult to gauge if you are making a harmless joke or starting to make something not so harmless. I gather that you didn't mean anything by it, so my apologies for being defensive.

It goes without saying that I have taken a lot of shit about this(and heard/read some real fucked up stuff), so I can be pretty quick on the trigger. I don't want to limit your gross punnage weight, by any means... :)

233 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 2:53:12pm

re: #232 celticdragon

Good one.

You and I have no conflict here, believe me.

234 Expand Your Ground  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 3:04:23pm

Genre, we hardly knew ye...

235 hokiepride  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 6:23:10pm

Tell me this is from the Onion...please...Oh no it isn't? *facepalm*

236 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 19, 2010 8:09:51pm

fuck the south


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 Frank says:

The crux of the biscuit is: If it entertains you, fine. Enjoy it. If it doesn't, then blow it out your ass. I do it to amuse myself. If I like it, I release it. If somebody else likes it, that's a bonus. -- What he's talking about is obvious. He said this in an interview with Playboy magazine on May 2, 1993.