Overnight Open Thread

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Let us do something while we have the chance! It is not every day that we are needed. Not indeed that we personally are needed. Others would meet the case equally well, if not better. To all mankind they were addressed, those cries for help still ringing in our ears! But at this place, at this moment of time, all mankind is us, whether we like it or not. Let us make the most of it, before it is too late! Let us represent worthily for once the foul brood to which a cruel fate consigned us!

Samuel Beckett

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812 comments

1 Racer X  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:48:02pm
2 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:48:42pm

Must be Waiting for Godot

3 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:50:57pm

Anyone got a spare drum kit they don't need?

4 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:51:11pm

My husband received a birthday card from his grandparents, informing him that they wanted a great-grandson, since it now seems that his sister's second child will be another girl.

His mother added to this that we are now the last hope for a grandson for her--something about my BIL, Afghanistan and 'spent uranium', which apparently selectively kills off the XY sperm.

My husband said the only thing possible. "OK, Mom."

5 okonkolo  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:52:11pm

I'll take Beckett over Beck any day.

6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:52:50pm

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

And your response?

7 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:53:57pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

And your response?

Well, I've been pushing for reproduction pretty hard this last couple of years, although I would sort of like a girl myself.

My husband pointed out that we now know the secret to having all girls--I just have to find some spent uranium.

8 Racer X  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:54:07pm

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

The elders have spoken.

9 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:56:39pm

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

Can I just say this? Birthday cards are meant for well-wishing and celebration, not emotional blackmail.

10 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:58:06pm

re: #9 Slumbering Behemoth

Can I just say this? Birthday cards are meant for well-wishing and celebration, not emotional blackmail.

No, in my husband's family birthday cards carry verses from the Gospels, and stern directives to breed.

11 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:58:13pm

re: #3 Slumbering Behemoth

I bet he has one and gets more tips this way.

12 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 10:59:45pm

re: #3 Slumbering Behemoth

what's he using as a snare?

13 Stanghazi  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:00:30pm

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

Good luck! We hope we'll be the 5th to know!

14 Bagua  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:02:16pm

Monday Mourning Meltdown


- Gov't Mule
15 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:02:59pm

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

I haz a sad for ur man.

If I were in his shoes, I would bluntly tell them that if they wanted more male descendants, they should have done more fucking in their prime.

16 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:04:09pm

re: #12 Conservative Moonbat

what's he using as a snare?

It's difficult to tell, the thing that seems to be making the snare sound is obscured by other objects.

17 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:04:29pm

re: #14 Bagua

Access Denied!

18 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:05:47pm

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

I haz a sad for ur man.

If I were in his shoes, I would bluntly tell them that if they wanted more male descendants, they should have done more fucking in their prime.

You'd be unique in that regard. I know of no one else who would give their parents the brush-off like that. No one in my family would even seriously consider doing that.

19 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:06:40pm

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

I haz a sad for ur man.

If I were in his shoes, I would bluntly tell them that if they wanted more male descendants, they should have done more fucking in their prime.

Oh, believe me, if needs be he'll say so.

Of course, his grandparents did their level best, five kids there were, but only his mother gave them grandchildren...

20 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:06:56pm

On the subject of drum solos, here's Joey Baron with John Zorn (Masada)

21 Bagua  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:07:22pm

re: #17 Slumbering Behemoth

Access Denied!


Do not force me to say "Ni !" to you also!

22 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:07:52pm

Have you seen this impressive reality map thing? It's really worth looking at. If you don't have time tonight, save it for later.

23 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:11:18pm

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

Yes, yes I would be. I don't cotton to emotional blackmail. Probably why I am so damn single.

24 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:12:17pm

Goodnight, all.

25 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:14:14pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

Goodnight, DF. Glad to see you at the top of the ten!

26 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:16:08pm

Hey all. My comp seems to be getting attack by a virus. I'm trying to download the updates to scan the thing but windows security alerts keep popping up.

Anyone have any idea how to turn them off?

27 Bagua  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:20:19pm

re: #20 Conservative Moonbat

On the subject of drum solos, here's Joey Baron with John Zorn (Masada)


[Video]

Fantastic, thanks. Though the drum solo I saw last night by Gov't Mule was a tough act to follow, easily the best concert drum solo I've ever seen. If anyone gets a chance to see them live, do it!

28 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:21:20pm

re: #26 Jadespring

Not that I could actually help, but more details might give others enough info to help.

29 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:27:50pm

Basically the windows security window opens and the little 'security warning boxes' pop up every few seconds stating the 'this blah, blah file is infected do you want to run your antivirus now' yes or no If you say yes then this other box opens with a list of the viris, says malware is outta date and then you have to register it get it to remove it. I think it's the software that comes with the computer.

Also when the security warning boxes pop windows exploreer will pop open to the softwares page.

30 Bagua  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:28:18pm

re: #22 Silvergirl

Have you seen this impressive reality map thing? It's really worth looking at. If you don't have time tonight, save it for later.

That was amazing. Like a Bourne movie, but real.

I too yield the floor. Goodnight all and don't be mean.

31 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:31:59pm

Actually I really need to turn it off because this stupid propritary crap will not let me run AVG.

Gah. This is soooo frustrating.

32 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:34:06pm

It's not letting me do anything except keep telling me I have to activate this software.

33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:35:14pm

re: #29 Jadespring

I am not sure if what you have is the same thing as this, but...

There are viruses/malware out there that generate pop-ups while you're on the internet which claim you have viruses/malware, tell you that you need to download updates/software to fix the problem, and direct you to a website that asks you to purchase their software. This is a scam.

Again, not sure if this the same thing you have going on.

34 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:35:49pm

re: #31 Jadespring

Actually I really need to turn it off because this stupid propritary crap will not let me run AVG.

Gah. This is sooo frustrating.

Sympathy ding. May it heal itself.

35 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:36:27pm

re: #32 Jadespring

It's not letting me do anything except keep telling me I have to activate this software.

Don't do it. Call customer support first.

36 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:37:30pm

re: #30 Bagua

That was amazing. Like a Bourne movie, but real.

I too yield the floor. Goodnight all and don't be mean.

Goodnight, Bagua. I'm taking my leave for the night also. If I'm mean it will have to be in dreamland.

37 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:38:47pm

re: #32 Jadespring

It's not letting me do anything except keep telling me I have to activate this software.

What is the name of the software and/or software company that is telling you to activate?

38 Cato the Elder  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:40:01pm

"The only truly unsustainable thing in this world is sustainability."

Copyright 2010 Cato the Elder

Good morning, all. At least it's morning here. Very early morning. But that is not sustainable.

39 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:42:24pm

re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth

I am not sure if what you have is the same thing as this, but...

There are viruses/malware out there that generate pop-ups while you're on the internet which claim you have viruses/malware, tell you that you need to download updates/software to fix the problem, and direct you to a website that asks you to purchase their software. This is a scam.

Again, not sure if this the same thing you have going on.

I don't think that's it. I've seen those before unless this is an uber smart one. It's bringing up the actual windows security center and isn't just firefox pop ups.

The stupid thing won't let run avg. Says execution files are infected. Says windows help files are infected as well so I can't even open those.

I have Norton on here which I don't use. It seems to work. Though it's really outta date. It's frustrating because I'm on dial up and it's taking forever to download updates. I hope that it works.

40 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:43:51pm

re: #37 Slumbering Behemoth

Antivirus Soft


OH GREAT. Now porn sites are popping up!

41 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:44:29pm

And viagra.

42 SixDegrees  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:44:42pm

Hmmm. Our winter storm, last night projected to dump 5-8 inches of snow, is now called between 3 to 5 inches. Looks to me like the transition line between rain and snow has shifted north, which helps.

I may have to go to work after all.

43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:46:00pm

re: #38 Cato the Elder

"The only thing more infinite than human stupidity is the blinkered arrogance of pedants."

Copyright 2010 Everyone Who Is Sick of Cato the Elder's Massive EgoTM

How you doin' this fine morning?

44 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:48:05pm

re: #40 Jadespring

You're being scammed, Jadespring.

45 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:52:08pm

re: #44 Slumbering Behemoth

You're being scammed, Jadespring.

Thank you so much! 1000 updings if I could.

I can barely type without the stupid things popping up every couple of seconds so even searching is hard right now.

46 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:54:58pm

re: #45 Jadespring

Here is the google search page that turns up several "Remove Antivirus Soft" results. Hope that helps.

47 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:01:00am

re: #46 Slumbering Behemoth

Thanks. That helps. This thing is a nasty piece of work. It installed on my system bar without me even noticing and they've made it look exactly like an official windows program would.

48 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:03:27am

re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth

Good.

Except you won't escape my pedantry that way. There is nothing more infinite than infinity.

49 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:06:14am

re: #47 Jadespring

They're crafty like that. Since I have been using Firefox with the NoScript add-on, I have had no problems with that sort of thing. Not a foolproof formula, but it has worked well for me so far.

50 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:07:43am

Anyways. I'm downloading a recommended program to get rid of it but since it's dial up it's going to take 5 hours.

They have instructions on how to remove it manually but I think I'm not going to mess with it right now. It's 3am so probably not a good idea to be messing with regsitry keys.

I think I might as well go to bed and figure it out in the morning.

51 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:17:47am

re: #50 Jadespring

Good luck, glad I could help some. But before you open up any downloads I would recommend using a non-infected computer to read more about that problem. Those assholes aren't stupid. They pummel you with pop-ups and other crap in order to thwart your efforts to learn more about what is really going on with them.

When you get to a clean computer, read up on that asshole "AV Soft" as well as the name of the thing you're downloading that claims to remove it.

52 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:23:35am

re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth

And besides, I was bein' all fuckin' zen and shit for a change, not pedantic.

[pouts]

53 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:24:42am

How about a Tim Buckley song? Father of Jeff.

Gawd I miss the Sexties.

54 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:25:19am

re: #52 Cato the Elder

Well, you may be able to move your spots around a bit, here and there, but you can't change them.

55 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:31:33am

re: #47 Jadespring

Thanks. That helps. This thing is a nasty piece of work. It installed on my system bar without me even noticing and they've made it look exactly like an official windows program would.

It's evil stuff, it should be illegal. In the meantime I recommend AVG as a pretty decent free piece of anti-virus software.

56 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:32:47am

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I've been pushing for reproduction pretty hard this last couple of years, although I would sort of like a girl myself.

My husband pointed out that we now know the secret to having all girls--I just have to find some spent uranium.

PLUTONIUM GIRL WILL SAVE US! :D

57 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:41:54am

Apropos tonight's quote, people may be interested to know that Samuel Beckett, despite having one of the most forbidding physiognomies ever photographed, and a wit to match, was an extremely kind man in person.

Mr Colgan recalls Beckett being challenged over why he'd given such a large sum of money to a beggar who was obviously a con-merchant.

"I thought he was, but I just couldn't take the chance," Beckett replied.

Here's a rare picture of him smiling.

Here's one of his funniest lines (laced with razors and ground glass, as always):

"Neary cursed first the day he was born, then - in a bold flashback - the night in which he was conceived." Taken straight from the book of Job and given an Irish twist.

58 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:46:34am

Time for me to knock off, Lizards. Laters.

59 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:19:55am

I see Matrix31 is here. Want to mock each other until the morning shift arrives, dude?

60 srb1976  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:23:25am

Morning!

61 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:34:10am

Boy, the store sure is empty this morning. And good morning all.

62 srb1976  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:48:51am

Tomorrow is my birthday, to celebrate, I am taking the day off work.....
No early morning shift for me......sleeping in is a great birthday present = )

63 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:51:52am

re: #62 srb1976

Tomorrow is my birthday, to celebrate, I am taking the day off work...
No early morning shift for me...sleeping in is a great birthday present = )

Would be even better if you get to use a sick day, if you have them. Either way, make sure if the kids wake up early, the hubby knows he is on point!! Ya gonna be 25 again?:)

64 srb1976  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:55:02am

re: #63 Cannadian Club Akbar

We have sick leave, rather than sick days...taking my "personal day"...better half knows....not only is he up with the kids, he has volunteered to take them to day care = )

65 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:57:43am

re: #64 srb1976

Fill out your breakfast menu tonight and leave it underneath his car keys tonight before you hit the rack. See if he gets the clue. Heh.

66 srb1976  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:00:09am

re: #65 Cannadian Club Akbar

Good idea!....may have to try that = )

67 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:16:41am

Saw a headline on Drudge that said Citigroup may refuse to allow withdrawals. IIRC, we saw this in Europe. So I clicked on the link and it lead me to...Prison Planet. Now I need to wash this computer. I'm sure soap and water won't hurt it.

68 srb1976  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:18:49am

Well, time to head back to the salt mines = )
Ought to be an easy day at least (i hope)
Later folks, have a great day!

69 SixDegrees  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:20:18am

re: #67 Cannadian Club Akbar

Saw a headline on Drudge that said Citigroup may refuse to allow withdrawals. IIRC, we saw this in Europe. So I clicked on the link and it lead me to...Prison Planet. Now I need to wash this computer. I'm sure soap and water won't hurt it.

Haul it down to the do-it-yourself car wash, and use their pressure washer to hose it down.

Have a friend come along to step on anything that tries to scuttle out.

70 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:24:42am

re: #69 SixDegrees

Prison Planet is the most paranoid freak show web site out there. Well, there might be more kooky ones, but not as mainstream. And I know people who love Alex Jones. Bilderbers, Illuminati, NWO, Troofers, etc. And I can't escape because one of these people is my BIL.

71 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:28:43am

Sleep. I'm supposed to get three more hours of it. WTF?

Mornin', all.

72 SixDegrees  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:29:36am

re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar

Prison Planet is the most paranoid freak show web site out there. Well, there might be more kooky ones, but not as mainstream. And I know people who love Alex Jones. Bilderbers, Illuminati, NWO, Troofers, etc. And I can't escape because one of these people is my BIL.

It's hard to believe it's any weirder than David Icke's site, but I really don't wanna find out.

73 Tigger2005  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:30:50am

Fuck, airstrike killed 33 civilians in Afghanistan. Of course, civilian deaths have been rare during this large operation, but we live in a world where being 99.9% accurate means you failed. Unfortunately, this is exactly why the Taliban is hanging around, hoping we'll make mistakes and piss people off. Doesn't matter that the Taliban probably stoned 33 people a day in soccer stadiums when they were in charge...

74 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:33:50am

Rahm Emanuel on his way out? Anyone else find it amusing that Rahm's argument is he was the moderate influence in the White House?

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]


This is basically Rahm saying on his way out, I was right all along and these guys were wrong. Maybe it's a last minute attempt at a Hail Mary to swing the decision in his favor if he can start a conversation in DC about how he had offered better advice than the other three to Obama (by the way, everything he claims to have been right about inside the article was disastrous advice that led Obama further and further away from his voters). But either way, that means he thinks he is very close to being on his way out the door.

75 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:36:20am

re: #73 Tigger2005

Two quick things:
It was a NATO strike. (doesn't actually matter, civilian deaths suck)
We gave people 2 weeks notice to get out. (see Falluja (sp?)

76 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:36:40am

The Milbank article in question:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]


Obama's first year fell apart in large part because he didn't follow his chief of staff's advice on crucial matters. Arguably, Emanuel is the only person keeping Obama from becoming Jimmy Carter.

77 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:37:56am

re: #76 RogueOne

We should refer to Rahm as "Tiny Dancer."

78 SixDegrees  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:39:13am

An overview of our reptilian overlords from David Icke's site.

And this is only a single snowflake's arm perched atop that vast iceberg. The site is enormous.

79 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:39:52am

re: #76 RogueOne

The Milbank article in question:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

The best part of Cenk's column is where he says Milbank 'transcribed an article written by Rahm'...I'm no big fan of Milbank, so when he gets openly mocked as being a tool--of the Bush admin or the Obama one--it makes me smile just a little.

80 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:41:05am

re: #78 SixDegrees

An overview of our reptilian overlords from David Icke's site.

And this is only a single snowflake's arm perched atop that vast iceberg. The site is enormous.

Wow. The crazy is strong there. Holy shit!!!

81 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:41:06am

Well I ran through all the Jennifer Connelly flicks on Netflix Instant (except I skipped "Higher Learning" 'cause it looks like a piece of PC crap) and now I'm doing Al Pacino. Now playing: "Scent of a Woman".

Hoo-ah!

82 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:42:58am

re: #81 Cato the Elder

Jennifer Connelly is to Cato what Megan Fox is to Hoops.:)

83 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:44:14am

re: #82 Cannadian Club Akbar

Jennifer Connelly is to Cato what Megan Fox is to Hoops.:)

Then why is he 'doing Al Pacino'?

84 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:44:31am

re: #79 darthstar

If Rahm is going down, he isn't going to go quietly. The Milbank article was pretty one-sided, I'm assuming they're old friends.

85 SixDegrees  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:47:22am

re: #80 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wow. The crazy is strong there. Holy shit!!!

You could spend weeks just scratching the surface over there. Diana, for example, was killed by the Reptilians when she discovered their plot, in a grotesque, cold blooded feeding frenzy. And it's pretty damn certain that Hillary is one of them, as well, along with approximately 75% of the Federal government.

And the Reptilian tale is just a single strand in Icke's elaborate tapestry of conspiracies. It seems to be impossible to publicize any bizarre theory without Icke immediately weaving it into his ever-expanding site.

Enjoy.

86 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:48:51am

re: #74 RogueOne

WHEN President Barack Obama’s secret service codename was revealed as Renegade and his wife Michelle’s as Renaissance, the names seemed perfect for a first couple who had come to Washington to shake things up.

More than a year into the Obama administration, with healthcare yet to be reformed, Wall Street banks continuing to pay huge bonuses and Guantanamo Bay prison still open, that mood of hope has turned to disillusion. Obama’s policy of engagement has yielded no progress in the Middle East or Iran; the war in Afghanistan continues to exact a big toll in lives and dollars; while the heaviest snow in Washington for 90 years seems to have stymied any hope of climate change legislation.

The president and his team now find themselves under fire for mishandling Congress from everyone from senior Democrats to social columnists. Critics say that by failing to move on from the “us versus them” feeling of the Obama election campaign, they have united an opposition that was in disarray. The result is legislative paralysis despite the biggest Democratic majority in 30 years.

Last week a prominent Democratic senator resigned after criticising both government and Congress. Evan Bayh from Indiana, who had never lost a race and was expected to be re-elected in November, complained that the party’s recent loss of the Senate seat of the late Ted Kennedy should have been seen as a wake-up call.

“Moderates and independents even in a state as Democratic as Massachusetts just aren’t buying our message,” he said.

“They don’t believe the answers we are currently proposing are solving their problems.”

SNIP

“This administration has managed to divide its friends and unite its enemies,” said Steve Clemons, director of the American Strategy Programme at the New America Foundation.

He and others lay the blame on the Chicago team, advisers from Obama’s adopted city. “Obama’s West Wing is filled with people who are in their jobs because of their Chicago connections or because they signed on early during his presidential campaign,” complained Doug Wilder, who in 1990s Virginia was America’s first elected black governor and was an early backer of Obama. “One problem is they do not have sufficient experience at governing at the executive branch level. The deeper problem is that they are not listening to the people.”

Obama relies on five people, four of whom are Chicagoans. They are Rahm Emanuel, his chief of staff, David Axelrod and Jarrett, his political advisers, and Michelle, while the fifth kitchen cabinet member is Robert Gibbs, his chief spokesman, who comes from Alabama.

The president consults them on everything. Military commanders were astounded when they participated in Afghanistan war councils and referred to them as the “Chicago mafia”. It was this group that inserted into Obama’s Afghan surge speech the deadline of July 2011 as a date to start withdrawing.

With Democrats fearing big losses in the mid-term elections in November, the knives are out for Emanuel, whose abrasive manner and use of profanities have won him few friends. Although his job is to deflect criticism from his boss, Rahmbo, as he is known, seems to have gone over the top.

SNIP

87 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:50:04am

re: #84 RogueOne

If Rahm is going down, he isn't going to go quietly. The Milbank article was pretty one-sided, I'm assuming they're old friends.

Could be true. I don't know. But I do think it wouldn't hurt for Obama to do a little Bush-type steamrolling while he still has a large majority in both houses. Pass some real legislation via reconciliation and the voters will most likely respect that when they get to the polls in November.

88 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:50:19am

re: #83 darthstar

Then why is he 'doing Al Pacino'?

The point was Cato fawns over Connelly the way Hoops fawns over Fox. It's no big deal, just an observation. We all have our fav's.

89 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:52:33am

Need to get ready for work, bbl folks.

90 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:52:52am

re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar

The point was Cato fawns over Connelly the way Hoops fawns over Fox. It's no big deal, just an observation. We all have our fav's.

My favorites (sorry...can't have just one):
Mimi Rogers
Catherine Deneuve
Sandra Bullock
Annette Bening
Ashley Judd

91 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:54:48am

re: #90 darthstar

My favorites (sorry...can't have just one):
Mimi Rogers
Catherine Deneuve
Sandra Bullock
Annette Bening
Ashley Judd

I think we might be about the same age considering your mix of women. And, agreed, can't just pick one.

92 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:56:57am

George Clooney.
Heath Ledger.
Tobey Maguire.
Jake Gyllenhaal.

93 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:57:22am

re: #87 darthstar

Could be true. I don't know. But I do think it wouldn't hurt for Obama to do a little Bush-type steamrolling while he still has a large majority in both houses. Pass some real legislation via reconciliation and the voters will most likely respect that when they get to the polls in November.

Nothing gets respct like getting steamrolled!

94 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:58:00am

re: #93 sattv4u2

Nothing gets respct like getting steamrolled!

In bed.

95 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:58:34am

Kate Beckensdale.
Mariska Hartigay.
Anna Torv.
Meg Ryan.

96 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:58:40am

re: #94 MandyManners

In bed.

***SSSMMMMMOOOOCCCHHHH****

97 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:59:28am

re: #95 Cannadian Club Akbar

Kate Beckensdale.
Mariska Hartigay.
Anna Torv.
Meg Ryan.

And Morgan Fairchild.

98 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:01:28am

Iran's vice president says the country plans to begin construction on two new uranium enrichment facilities in the next Iranian calendar year, which begins March 21.

Ali Akbar Salehi, who is also the head of Iran's nuclear program, said Monday that Teheran intended to use its more advanced centrifuges at the new sites.

Iran approved plans in November to build 10 industrial scale uranium enrichment facilities, a dramatic expansion of the program in defiance of UN demands it halt enrichment.

SNIP

99 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:01:36am

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar

And Morgan Fairchild.

And Giada DeLaurentis.

100 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:01:51am

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar

And Morgan Fairchild.

Your wife?

101 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:01:57am

re: #77 Cannadian Club Akbar

We should refer to Rahm as "Tiny Dancer."

Tiny Dancer, The Stinky Ballerina-in deference to his penchant for delivering dead fish to the door of a political opponent.

102 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:02:12am

re: #96 sattv4u2

***SSSMMMOOOCCCHHH***

I couldn't resist.

103 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:02:35am

Don't forget Uma Thurman. I knew her when she was six years old.

104 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:04:14am

re: #100 MandyManners

Your wife?

She's still smokin'.

105 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:08:51am

re: #104 Cannadian Club Akbar

She's still smokin'.

That's the ticket, Tommy Flanagan!

106 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:10:42am

SOWETO, South Africa — Since the days of apartheid, when blacks were required to live in distant townships like this, Susan Hanong, a 67-year-old maid, has commuted to the wealthy northern suburbs of Johannesburg, one of the spectral figures trudging through darkened streets on long trips to wash white people’s clothes and mind their children.

But, at dawn recently, after walking through Soweto to the sounds of roosters crowing and her sandals slapping against her feet, Mrs. Hanong beheld a vision of urbanity: a stylish, new high-tech bus station. As the doors of a gaily colored bus closed behind her, she claimed a front-row seat reserved for the elderly and settled in for a smooth, tranquil ride, so different from her usual experience on careering, jam-packed minibus taxis.

“These people on taxis, they shout at us,” she said. “They say, ‘Granny, just move!’ They talk funny to the people. On the bus, no one can shout at you, you see.”

South Africa has erased apartheid from its statute books, but the racist schemes of white minority rule remain engraved on the landscape in an extreme form of residential segregation. Millions of blacks still live in townships far from centers of commerce and employment. Those with jobs, like Mrs. Hanong, must endure commutes that devour their time and meager incomes, while legions of jobless people are isolated from opportunity.

The new Bus Rapid Transit systems planned for South Africa’s major cities in recent years have promised to ease those hardships by providing fast, affordable, dignified travel on bus lanes cleared of other vehicles.

Prodded by a national commitment to improve public transportation for soccer’s 2010 World Cup, Johannesburg is carrying out the nation’s most ambitious program. The city predicted that buses would be rolling from Soweto, where a quarter of the city’s four million residents live, to Sandton, the region’s commercial and financial hub, by June.

But its bus project is falling short of that goal and has also become a reminder of just how challenging it is for South Africa to transcend its scarred history. Beyond the usual logistical delays and a recession-related slowdown in financing, the project has confronted resistance from both suburbanites in what were once exclusively white enclaves and from some in the black-owned minibus taxi industry that sprang up during apartheid.

SNIP

107 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:12:28am

re: #105 MandyManners

That's the ticket, Tommy Flanagan!

Who dat?

108 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:15:13am

President Hugo Chavez accused his adversaries on Sunday of sabotaging Venezuela's electricity grid as part of a broader plan aimed at bringing about the system's collapse — and his downfall.

Chavez said authorities must be "on the alert" and apprehend anyone who cuts electricity cables connected to the grid. Such sabotage has caused power failures in some regions and exacerbated the effects of severe energy shortages, he said.

"Be on the lookout! Patrols must be carried out to capture the saboteurs because those responsible must be caught and put in prison," Chavez said during his weekly television and radio program, "Hello President."

Referring to his government's adversaries, he said: "They think that's how they're going to topple Chavez, and that's what they're seeking, but if there's an electricity collapse, it won't be Chavez who is going to fall. Prepare yourselves, bourgeois folks, because it will be you who will fall."

The accusations were vague and Chavez provided no evidence supporting them.

BOOGA-BOOGA!

109 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:15:47am

re: #107 Cannadian Club Akbar

Who dat?

SNL's Pathological Liar!

110 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:16:47am

re: #108 MandyManners

I love when people refer to themselves in the third person. CCA finds that funny.

112 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:17:35am

re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar

I love when people refer to themselves in the third person. CCA finds that funny.

Mandy agrees.

113 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:18:14am

re: #111 Taqyia2Me

How delightfully paranoid!

I wonder if he keeps a close watch during his three-minute showers.

114 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:19:56am

re: #111 Taqyia2Me

How delightfully paranoid!

Kinda' reminds me of how BHO blames everyone else for not buying into his Proggish message.

115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:20:36am

re: #109 MandyManners

SNL's Pathological Liar!

That's the ticket. Yeah. Brad Pitt is my... my... gardner. Yeah...

116 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:21:47am

re: #113 MandyManners

I wonder if he keeps a close watch during his three-minute showers.

Heh! 3 minute showers, a 'glowing' example of a workers' paradise!

117 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:22:11am

A Niger civil society leader is calling on other civil society groups throughout Africa to stand up in defense of democracy and the rule of law.

Marou Amadou, president of the United Front for the Safeguard of Democratic Gains in Niger was arrested and jailed several times during Niger’s civil society activism against attempts by President Mamadou Tandja to prolong himself in power.

He said civil society groups and citizens around Africa should stand up against dictatorships even if it means they would be killed.

“We have, as Africans, to believe in democracy; to have tireless struggle for the establishment of freedom in all parts of Africa. We cannot accept dictatorship and poverty and fatalities in our continent. If in some parts of Africa dictatorship can establish, we, Nigeriens will not accept it even if we will be killed,” he said.

SNIP

118 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:23:19am

re: #114 MandyManners

Kinda' reminds me of how BHO blames everyone else for not buying into his Proggish message.

They musta read the same 'how-to' manual.

119 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:24:06am

re: #115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's the ticket. Yeah. Brad Pitt is my... my... gardner. Yeah...

Oookay. NTTAWWT.

120 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:24:42am

re: #116 Taqyia2Me

Heh! 3 minute showers, a 'glowing' example of a workers' paradise!

I really wonder if he restricts his.

121 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:25:12am

re: #115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's the ticket. Yeah. Brad Pitt is my... my... gardner. Yeah...

You shoulda said George Clooney.

122 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:25:21am

re: #118 Taqyia2Me

They musta read the same 'how-to' manual.

GMTA during the Honduran situation.

123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:26:21am

re: #121 Cannadian Club Akbar

I was going to expand, but as the "Bard" sez... "Brevity is the soul of wit."

124 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:26:30am

re: #117 MandyManners

I posted parts of the Niger Constitution the other day. Well written. All about freedom.

125 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:27:07am

The death toll from last month's devastating earthquake in Haiti could jump to 300,000 people, including the bodies buried under collapsed buildings in the capital, Haitian President Rene Preval said on Sunday.

"You have seen the images you are familiar with the pictures. More than 200,000 bodies were collected on the streets without counting those that are still under the rubble," Preval told a meeting of Latin American and Caribbean leaders in Mexico. "We might reach 300,000 people."

That would make Haiti's earthquake one of the most lethal natural disasters in modern history, more than the 200,000 people killed in the Indian Ocean tsunami in 2004.

SNIP

126 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:27:30am

re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar

I posted parts of the Niger Constitution the other day. Well written. All about freedom.

I hope they can find someone to enforce it.

127 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:28:51am

re: #86 MandyManners

Sarah Palin's secret service codename is "Rogue One".

Hang on just ...

128 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:30:39am

The current U.S.-led military operation in Helmand province is a trial run for what could be the decisive clash with the Taliban in Afghanistan this summer in the area that is its spiritual home — Kandahar.

Officials at the U.S.-led International Security Assistance Force say that the focus of the coalition will shift from Helmand to Kandahar — the big prize for both the Taliban and the coalition. Kandahar city is home to around 1 million people, while Marjah, the target of the massive ongoing offensive in Helmand, is an obscure dusty town of 85,000 inhabitants that had turned into a Taliban stronghold.

A senior ISAF official, who didn't want to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue, said: "This moves to Kandahar. That's the next main objective."

Kandahar is Afghanistan's political powerhouse. It was the seat of the former Afghan royal family and the base for Taliban founder Mullah Omar during his movement's reign from the mid-'90s to 2001. President Hamid Karzai's family also comes from Kandahar, where his controversial brother Ahmad Wali Karzai heads the provincial council.

SNIP

129 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:31:05am

re: #125 MandyManners

Do you recall how many were killed in Bam, Iran?

130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:34:31am

re: #129 Cannadian Club Akbar

26,271.

Towns population before the earthquake? 60,000 population (the other 30K were injured).

131 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:34:33am

The BBC on why there is no reason to suppose that Bin Laden is dead:

132 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:35:50am

re: #131 Jimmah

PBUH.

(Pestilence Be Upon Him)

133 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:36:03am

re: #129 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do you recall how many were killed in Bam, Iran?

According to Wiki, about 26,000.

134 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:38:18am

I didn't see pics from Haiti until 6 days after the quake. (self imposed media/computer blackout) That was vicious.

135 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:38:30am

Confusion still swirls.

The hit squad that killed a senior Hamas official in Dubai may have entered the country using diplomatic passports, officials in the Emirates said yesterday as they called on Britain and other European countries whose documents were forged to launch a full inquiry.

“There is still information that Dubai police will not make public for the moment, especially regarding diplomatic passports,” said Lieutenant-General Dhahi Khalfan Tamim, Dubai’s police chief.

SNIP

136 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:39:27am

I just saw Charlie Crist. Dang. He has a forceful personality.

137 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:40:49am

re: #136 MandyManners

I just saw Charlie Crist. Dang. He has a forceful personality.

He and Marco Rubio have a debate on "Meet the Press" and "Fox News Sunday" next month.

138 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:41:53am

re: #137 Cannadian Club Akbar

He and Marco Rubio have a debate on "Meet the Press" and "Fox News Sunday" next month.

What's Rubio's personality?

Crist took quite a few strips off him this morning.

139 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:43:19am

re: #138 MandyManners

Rubio is more conservative, no doubt. I don't agree with everything he stands for, but I don't agree with any politician 100%.

140 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:44:08am

They got another big one.

Police in Nowshera arrested Maulvi Kabir, one of the top 10 most-wanted Taliban leaders and a former governor of Afghanistan’s Nangahar province, Fox News reported on its website on Sunday.

The channel, citing two unnamed senior US officials, said that police captured Kabir in Nowshera, NWFP.

The capture is a “significant detention”, a senior US military official in Afghanistan told Fox News.

Information leading to Kabir’s capture was obtained from Mullah Baradar, the Taliban’s second in command, whose arrest was announced on February 18 following a joint US-Pakistani operation, according to Fox.

SNIP

141 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:45:45am

re: #139 Cannadian Club Akbar

Rubio is more conservative, no doubt. I don't agree with everything he stands for, but I don't agree with any politician 100%.

Cirst railed on him for huge amounts of ear-marks.

142 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:47:08am

re: #141 MandyManners

Cirst railed on him for huge amounts of ear-marks.

Well, Charlie took stimulus money then ran radio ads complaining about the stimulus package. Not sure if he did TV ads.

143 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:48:16am

re: #131 Jimmah

Care to summarize?

How do they explain the lack of videos?

144 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:49:16am

re: #141 MandyManners

Cirst railed on him for huge amounts of ear-marks.

Against. Screwed up my preposition.

145 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:49:22am

Morning, my fellow lizardoid minions.

The St. Petersburg Times in Tampa Bay, Florida, won a Pulitzer for their reporting on Scientology back in the day. Now, Dan Rather is being invoked by Scientology in a futile attempt to counteract the paper's recent series of articles on the cult by paying journalists to investigate the paper.


Scientology Church hires reporters to investigate newspaper
[LGF link %P% original]
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 22, 2010

After decades of digging into the Church of Scientology, reporters and editors at the St. Petersburg Times are accustomed to being denounced by its leaders.

But they find it unsettling that three veteran journalists -- a Pulitzer Prize winner, a former "60 Minutes" producer, and the former executive director of Investigative Reporters and Editors -- are taking the church's money to examine the paper's conduct.

(...)

Asked about Brown's view that the study could not possibly be objective, [Tommy] Davis says: "It's easy for the St. Pete Times to pop off and say that, but oh, please. It's a normal thing. It's done all the time." He likened the effort to CBS hiring an outside panel to investigate Dan Rather's 2004 story on George W. Bush and the National Guard, which the network later retracted. That report was a self-examination, however, and was made public.

The reporters hired for the study are Russell Carollo, who won a 1998 Pulitzer for Dayton, Ohio's Daily News for a series on medical malpractice in the U.S. military, and Christopher Szechenyi, an Emmy-winning former television producer who has worked for the Boston Globe's Web site.

(...)

More at link

At least these journalists refused to do what a journalist did earlier, which was to write for "Freedom Magazine", the cult's own magazine.

Tommy Davis could use some help making better PR for Scientology though, so if there are any latent Iraqi Information Ministers out there, you can send in your resumé.

146 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:49:34am

re: #142 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, Charlie took stimulus money then ran radio ads complaining about the stimulus package. Not sure if he did TV ads.

Whoopsie.

147 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:50:12am

re: #145 MagnaniomousCoward

Morning, my fellow lizardoid minions.

The St. Petersburg Times in Tampa Bay, Florida, won a Pulitzer for their reporting on Scientology back in the day. Now, Dan Rather is being invoked by Scientology in a futile attempt to counteract the paper's recent series of articles on the cult by paying journalists to investigate the paper.

More at link

At least these journalists refused to do what a journalist did earlier, which was to write for "Freedom Magazine", the cult's own magazine.

Tommy Davis could use some help making better PR for Scientology though, so if there are any latent Iraqi Information Ministers out there, you can send in your resumé.

Have you sent that to Charles?

148 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:51:15am

re: #147 MandyManners

Have you sent that to Charles?

I did.

149 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:54:38am

With the Vlaams Belang supporting Scientology in Belgium, we kind of have the nirvana of moronic convergences going.

150 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:58:38am

re: #149 MagnaniomousCoward

Do you have any info on that?

151 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 4:59:07am

re: #149 MagnaniomousCoward

With the Vlaams Belang supporting Scientology in Belgium, we kind of have the nirvana of moronic convergences going.

Scientology was running commercials in the Tampa area. Very impressive commercials. I brought it up here and someone suggested that now is the right time to try to get people to join the cult, considering the economy, etc. Lost younger people might be more easily persuaded while looking for answers. I think they were right.

152 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:00:47am

re: #148 Cannadian Club Akbar

I did.

So did I.

153 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:01:26am

re: #149 MagnaniomousCoward

With the Vlaams Belang supporting Scientology in Belgium, we kind of have the nirvana of moronic convergences going.

I've heard something about that, too. I think. My brain gets stuffed lately.

154 Liberal Classic  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:01:48am

re: #78 SixDegrees

An overview of our reptilian overlords from David Icke's site.

And this is only a single snowflake's arm perched atop that vast iceberg. The site is enormous.

I'm getting a chuckle this morning from his pie chart of the U.S. Population Based on Morphology.

Image: reptiles46_01.jpg

22% of the population are fairies! Does this census bureau know about this?!

155 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:01:48am

re: #143 Cato the Elder

Care to summarize?

How do they explain the lack of videos?

Care to watch the videos, Cato?

156 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:02:15am

re: #150 Obdicut

Do you have any info on that?

I did a quick google search and the top story was about Gates of Vienna. And the story was about...LGF. D'oh!!

157 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:02:30am

re: #151 Cannadian Club Akbar

Scientology was running commercials in the Tampa area. Very impressive commercials. I brought it up here and someone suggested that now is the right time to try to get people to join the cult, considering the economy, etc. Lost younger people might be more easily persuaded while looking for answers. I think they were right.

But, it costs lotsa' bucks to "advance" in that cult. How will that help young'uns in this economy?

158 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:03:21am

re: #154 Liberal Classic

I'm getting a chuckle this morning from his pie chart of the U.S. Population Based on Morphology.

[Link: www.bibliotecapleyades.net...]

22% of the population are fairies! Does this census bureau know about this?!

Why do you think it's costing $130,000,000.00 to advertise the Census? Fairies are hard to reach.

159 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:03:35am

re: #157 MandyManners

But, it costs lotsa' bucks to "advance" in that cult. How will that help young'uns in this economy?

I'm sure they get "credits" for bothering the rest of us, trying to get us to join.

160 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:03:46am

re: #158 MandyManners

Why do you think it's costing $130,000,000.00 to advertise the Census? Fairies are hard to reach.

Pixies are even harder.

161 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:04:23am

re: #159 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sure they get "credits" for bothering the rest of us, trying to get us to join.

I bet The Kid wishes he could get credit for bugging people. He'd be rich.

162 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:04:40am

re: #155 Jimmah

Care to watch the videos, Cato?

That's a lot of videos, and I'm working. Thought maybe you could boil it down.

163 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:05:04am

He lies awake at night devising nefarious plots to aggravate the snot out of his mother.

164 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:07:49am

re: #154 Liberal Classic

I'm getting a chuckle this morning from his pie chart of the U.S. Population Based on Morphology.

[Link: www.bibliotecapleyades.net...]

22% of the population are fairies! Does this census bureau know about this?!

I see there are water sprites in there too. WOW.

165 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:08:09am

re: #127 Jimmah

Sarah Palin's secret service codename is "Rogue One".

Hang on just ...

Hey! She's stealing my gig!

166 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:08:30am

re: #150 Obdicut

Do you have any info on that?

There was a mainpage LGF post about it: Vlaams Belang and Scientology - Together at Last
Video is gone now, but can be found here:


3:54

In newer times Hugo Coveliers also was a headliner at the opening of a new Scientology building in Brussels:
WARNING: SCIENTOLOGY SITE: New Branch of Churches of Scientology for Europe Opens in Brussels

Distinguished guest speakers participating in the dedication of the new Church were the Honorable Hugo Coveliers, Senator in the Belgian Parliament; (...)
167 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:09:43am

re: #162 Cato the Elder

That's a lot of videos, and I'm working. Thought maybe you could boil it down.

I'm kinda busy here right now too. Bookmark them and watch later. This is the same team that debunked the 9/11 and 7/7 conspiracies btw - so they have a pretty good track record.

168 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:10:53am

re: #165 RogueOne

Hey! She's stealing my gig!

Send her a strongly worded letter.

169 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:12:01am

Israel’s Air Force on Sunday introduced a fleet of huge pilotless planes that can remain in the air for a full day and fly as far as the Persian Gulf, putting Iran within their range.

The new aircraft, called the Heron TP, has a wingspan of 86 feet, making it the size of a Boeing 737 jetliner and the largest unmanned aircraft in Israel’s military.

The commander of Israel’s Air Force, Maj. Gen. Ido Nehushtan, said the aircraft “has the potential to be able to conduct new missions down the line as they become relevant.”

SNIP

170 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:13:11am

Hey, Hugo. Some bourgeois folks are lurking around your computer's power strip!

Booga.

171 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:13:24am

Gotta' git.

172 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:21:01am

Tim Pawlenty's Health Care plan...

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:23:27am

re: #173 NJDhockeyfan

How about if they were gay robots?

175 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:24:36am

re: #173 NJDhockeyfan

I wonder how Dinnerjacket will feel getting bombed by robot Zionists.

Israel should land one at a Republican Guard base, wait for a crowd of soldiers, then blow it up. Wait, that's not nice.

176 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:24:55am

Jimmah,

You're on early. I favorited those videos to try to watch later. Personally, I think he's pinin' for the fjords.

177 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:25:39am

re: #174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How about if they were gay robots?

There are no gay robots in Iran. ~ Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

178 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:26:11am

re: #177 NJDhockeyfan

There are no gay robots in Iran. ~ Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

+11

179 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:28:04am

"I remember the lynching of Justice Thomas by Joe Biden. They're still at it."

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

“So after five years of investigation, partisan accusations and unethical media leaks, the Justice Department's senior ethicist has concluded that Bush Administration lawyers John Yoo and Jay Bybee committed no professional misconduct. The issue now is whether the protégés of Attorney General Eric Holder who led this exercise at Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) should themselves be in the dock….”
“…Mr. Margolis's review overrules both a draft OPR report whose contents were leaked to the media last year and a final OPR report that was released along with the Margolis review late Friday. Those OPR reports recommended disciplinary action and potential disbarment for Messrs. Bybee and Yoo for their advice while working in the Office of Legal Counsel in the frantic months after September 11. The leaks were themselves an unethical attempt to smear the reputations of the lawyers while they were under a gag order and unable to reply….”
“…Justice is defending its pre-weekend document dump by saying that it had to release the entire record. But notably, Justice failed to release a 14-page January 19, 2009 letter from then-Attorney General Michael Mukasey and Deputy AG Mark Filip that eviscerated the first OPR draft. The Mukasey-Filip memo has since appeared on media Web sites, and its withering analysis clearly made an impression on Mr. Margolis. The selective disclosure by Mr. Holder suggests the political nature of this entire exercise….”

This is a case study in the abuse of executive power in the federal government. Holder and his minions truly belong in jail.

180 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:29:27am

re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar

Israel should land one at a Republican Guard base, wait for a crowd of soldiers, then blow it up have a loudspeaker broadcast maniacal laughter, then just take off again. Do it in every base in Iran. And a city street or two...

Made it more fun, there.

181 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:30:11am

A somber homecoming for Hoosiers

[Link: www.indystar.com...]


On Friday, Lance Cpl. Joshua Birchfield, 24, was killed in action. A 2004 graduate of Westville High School in Northern Indiana, he had served as a Marine for two years. A funeral home and the local paper in Brazil also reported that Cpl. Gregory Scott Stultz, 22, died of gunshot wounds Friday in Afghanistan. The Pentagon has not formally announced the deaths of either Marine, but the bodies of all three men arrived at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware over the weekend.

They bring to 28 the number of soldiers and Marines with Indiana ties to die in Afghanistan.

182 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:36:20am

re: #167 Jimmah

I'm kinda busy here right now too. Bookmark them and watch later. This is the same team that debunked the 9/11 and 7/7 conspiracies btw - so they have a pretty good track record.

Bookmarked.

183 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:36:46am

re: #166 MagnaniomousCoward

Thanks very much.

184 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:40:34am

Here's some fresh seething from CAIR...

CAIR wants Congress to probe alleged discrimination on religious advisory panel

A Muslim advocacy group called on Congress to investigate internal discrimination charges being brought against a federal commission that advises the White House and lawmakers on the state of religious freedom abroad.

A former employee with the congressionally mandated U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom filed a lawsuit against the agency last year that has just now come to light, saying that she was fired because she is Muslim.

“The disturbing allegations of anti-Muslim bias at the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom must be investigated by Congress prior to instituting any necessary reforms,” said Nihad Awad, the executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).

“Taxpayer dollars should not be used to promote the religious agendas or pet projects of those with an ideological ax to grind.”

185 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:44:13am

Dawn approaches the San Gabriel Mountains of California. The Towercam, Pacific time zone.

And down with the financial elite of this country, and their political toadies.

I have a large stack of curse words that I have saved out of these statements.

186 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:47:02am

re: #185 Ojoe

Dawn approaches the San Gabriel Mountains of California. The Towercam, Pacific time zone.

And down with the financial elite of this country, and their political toadies.

I have a large stack of curse words that I have saved out of these statements.

Apparently, our friends at Goldmine Sacks are heavily implicated in the derivatives voodoo that the state of Greece used to hide its real debt from public scrutiny. Over which little matter the EU is currently tearing its entrails out.

Imagine my shock.

187 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:47:49am

re: #184 NJDhockeyfan

Here's some fresh seething from CAIR...

CAIR wants Congress to probe alleged discrimination on religious advisory panel

I wonder if she was fired for being a Muslim or did she just suck at her job.

188 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:48:24am
Airstrike kills 27 civilians, Afghan officials say (MSNBC)

¿ Wouldn't it have been better to have put them in Gitmo and fed them well ?

Just askin.

189 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:48:38am

re: #176 RogueOne

Jimmah,

You're on early. I favorited those videos to try to watch later. Personally, I think he's pinin' for the fjords.

It's not impossible - the video doesn't try to prove he is definitely alive - what it shows is that there is no compelling reason for thinking he is dead.

190 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:49:21am

re: #189 Jimmah

It's not impossible - the video doesn't try to prove he is definitely alive - what it shows is that there is no compelling reason for thinking he is dead.

It is possible we may never know.

191 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:50:38am

re: #186 Cato the Elder

Dante has a place in hell for the financial elite.

Now more people come to the food bank here, and there is strife in marriages that was not there before; all a result of the actions of those bastards.

Oh well.

BBL

192 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:53:13am

re: #191 Ojoe

Dante has a place in hell for the financial elite.

Now more people come to the food bank here, and there is strife in marriages that was not there before; all a result of the actions of those bastards.

Oh well.

BBL

The county I live in had a 51% increase of people on food stamps over 2008. Something like 74,000 people. The county might have 200K. And unemployment is around 12.4%.

193 Liberal Classic  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:55:42am

re: #162 Cato the Elder

That's a lot of videos, and I'm working. Thought maybe you could boil it down.

I just watched them, and thought they were pretty good. Considerable time was given to truther David Ray Griffin to express his view that bin Laden is likely dead and the government is using bin Laden as an Emmanuel Goldstein figure. The authors of the documentary suggest that reports of bin Laden's illness and funeral aren't verifiable. The report bin Laden was ill with kidney failure came not from the American Hospital in Dubai, but may have come from Saudi and Pakistani intelligence services. Also, the video suggests that the U.S. relied too heavily on tribal troops during the early days of the Afghan war and this weakness allowed bin Laden to escape Tora Bora into Pakistan. The video makes a persuasive occam's razor argument that manhunts are difficult. It took 15 years to track down Adolph Eichmann, 18 years to apprehend Ted Kaczynski. Furthermore, bin Laden is seen by a hero of the people in the area and he has ample support.

194 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:57:55am

re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar

I used to design buildings (architect), Now I am driving trucks for the local food bank.

Not that the people who worked construction can't still do the work, but now they show up for food.

We are heading for some social chaos and revolution if this is not addressed.

195 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:05:15am

re: #194 Ojoe

I applied for a job at a dairy manufacturing plant. The way I see it, if I can get the job, that would equal job security. Milk, cheeses and butter are always a gubment staple where food is concerned.

196 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:15:35am

re: #173 NJDhockeyfan

I wonder how Dinnerjacket will feel getting bombed by robot Zionists.

Da drone! Da drone!

197 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:16:34am

Good morning Lizards from sunny Philadelphia.

Spent the weekend doing a round trip to Cleveland to attend a memorial service for one of my aunts. Lived to the ripe age of 95, lived her life well, and was a positive influence on all she touched. She will be missed.

I also have a quote and an anecdote as well:

Her saying: "Life is like a sewer, you get out of it what you put into it."

Anecdote from the husband of one of my cousins. (They did a lot of visiting and shuttle work with my aunt once she could no longer drive. And for the last year or so my aunt was also wheelchair bound as her health failed.)

One night last year they went out to the retirement community and "kidnapped" my aunt to take her to see a movie. There are rules against that, but a few rules are meant to be bent. So they notified the nurse and took her. The movie was _Up_ in 3D, so they got there early, got her wheelchair down front and got her the 3D glasses. The expectation was that she would possibly nod off during the film, but she stayed awake, interested, and watched the whole thing.

On the way out of the theater she commented, "You know, that wasn't very realistic. The men always die first. Look at the retirement home. It's full of old women and there are practically no men to be found."

198 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:21:51am
199 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:23:47am

re: #193 Liberal Classic

I just watched them, and thought they were pretty good. Considerable time was given to truther David Ray Griffin to express his view that bin Laden is likely dead and the government is using bin Laden as an Emmanuel Goldstein figure. The authors of the documentary suggest that reports of bin Laden's illness and funeral aren't verifiable. The report bin Laden was ill with kidney failure came not from the American Hospital in Dubai, but may have come from Saudi and Pakistani intelligence services. Also, the video suggests that the U.S. relied too heavily on tribal troops during the early days of the Afghan war and this weakness allowed bin Laden to escape Tora Bora into Pakistan. The video makes a persuasive occam's razor argument that manhunts are difficult. It took 15 years to track down Adolph Eichmann, 18 years to apprehend Ted Kaczynski. Furthermore, bin Laden is seen by a hero of the people in the area and he has ample support.

Anyone even slightly familiar with 1984 would not suggest that bin Laden is representative of the Emmanuel Goldstein character. That is hyperbole and David Ray Griffin know that.

Lame.

200 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:24:00am

re: #197 oaktree

Aunt was a hoot!

201 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:25:28am

re: #185 Ojoe

Nice shot Ojoe, I see the snow is gone. D_L & I tried to get there Saturday but the highway is still closed due to a mudslide. Maybe next time.

202 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:27:10am

re: #201 Rightwingconspirator

O California, land of fires, mudslides & earthquakes !

Good morning.

203 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:27:58am

Police say a suicide bomber has killed 15 people in eastern Afghanistan, including a key tribal leader who played a major role in a failed attempt to capture al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora in 2001.

Police Gen. Mohammad Ayub Salangi says the bomber set off his explosives in Khogyani district next to a small group of tribal elders and government workers as they were meeting Monday with a few hundred Afghan refugees who had recently returned from Pakistan.

Among the dead was Mohammad Zaman Ghamsharik, better known as Haji Zaman. He and another warlord from the Jalalabad area, Hazrat Ali, commanded Afghan forces who cornered the al-Qaida leader in the mountains of Nangarhar province but allowed him to slip away.

204 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:28:33am

re: #202 Ojoe

O California, land of fires, mudslides & earthquakes !

Good morning.

No pestilence?

205 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:28:51am

re: #186 Cato the Elder

Not just Goldman Sachs but pretty much all the banks - both here in the US and over in Europe. Greece sought EU entry and needed to repackage its debt. That made its financial situation look better than it was. Greece got into the EU. Now, the debt has blown up and everyone's pointing fingers at each other.

The banks deserve their fair share of scrutiny, but so do the Greek government, the EU regulators, and anyone following that situation who didn't notice the games that were played to get Greece's financial house looking better than it was via repackaged debt.

206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:29:47am

If there is a town called "Mudville" in Canada? There is no joy there.

heh...

207 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:31:08am

Saudi Arabia could soon allow women lawyers to appear in court, though they would only be able to represent women, Saudi Justice Minister Mohammed al Issa said on Sunday.

According to a Saudi newspaper, al Issa said the ministry is drafting new rules to permit female lawyers to fight family cases, adding the new law was part of King Abdullah’s plan to develop the legal system.

The newspaper said the women would only be able to represent other women in marriage, divorce, custody and other family cases.


SNIP

208 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:31:38am

re: #131 Jimmah

Faved for later, thanks!

209 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:31:41am

re: #204 MandyManners

No pestilence?

What about killer bees?

210 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:31:44am

re: #204 MandyManners

We drained the swamps, but we don't say swamp anymore, we say endangered wetland now.

211 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:32:01am

re: #205 lawhawk

Given that at the same time the EU-- along with the US-- were looking the other way as the banking houses, and the non-bank investment houses, cooked up the whole MBS/CDO/Credit default swap boondoggle, it's hardly surprising.

212 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:33:16am
213 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:34:08am

re: #212 Walter L. Newton

I went to bed last night, but someone emailed me stating that Ludwig wished death by fire on Bagua, on line, on one of last nights threads, and that the message was deleted.

Did anyone see that?

I generally skip over his post.

214 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:34:21am

re: #200 MandyManners

Her and my mother were quite close. Our branch and her's were the ones that traveled and had their children spread to the four winds. (The other three branches in comparison stayed very local. Most of them are within 2-3 hours of Johnstown, PA still.)

My aunt and her husband were busy folk. When they retired they still played golf, square danced, and sailed a boat on Lake Erie. During the winter they went to Texas, golfed, square danced, and sailed there as well. The joke at one point was that they needed to retire from retiring...

After my aunt's husband died, and my father died, my mother and my aunt were living about two hours apart once my mother moved back east from Oregon. They were very similar personalities; independent, supportive, and very, very, active. They did a lot of thing together, and were often doing Elderhostel trips together, including a trip (or two) to Europe.

Another interesting set of parallels was that they both did library volunteer work and sang in choirs for Unitarian Universalist congregations. And I think both marriages were Methodist/Catholic mixes initially.

215 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:34:47am

re: #202 Ojoe
Good Morning to you.
I like to call it shake and bake. There is a nice picnic ground right near the observatory. Great views. Almost as good as the web cam.

216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:37:14am

re: #213 Cannadian Club Akbar

I do as soon as he gets pissy.

217 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:37:36am

re: #210 Ojoe

I guess because swamps are useless while they've discovered that wetlands have a much greater effect on the environment in terms of supporting wildlife and water quality. (Not to mention special terrain and acting as R.O.U.S. habitat. Drain that swamp and they will probably move into the nearest city. Hmm, wasn't D.C. originally a swamp???)

218 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:09am

re: #212 Walter L. Newton

That's just awful. I lose interest in the threads that catch fire.

219 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:21am

re: #217 oaktree

I guess because swamps are useless while they've discovered that wetlands have a much greater effect on the environment in terms of supporting wildlife and water quality. (Not to mention special terrain and acting as R.O.U.S. habitat. Drain that swamp and they will probably move into the nearest city. Hmm, wasn't D.C. originally a swamp???)

Sometimes I think it still is one.

220 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:26am

re: #217 oaktree

I guess because swamps are useless while they've discovered that wetlands have a much greater effect on the environment in terms of supporting wildlife and water quality. (Not to mention special terrain and acting as R.O.U.S. habitat. Drain that swamp and they will probably move into the nearest city. Hmm, wasn't D.C. originally a swamp???)

I think you are correct. Disney in Florida was also a swamp.

221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:48am

re: #220 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dubai was a desert.

222 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:56am

re: #219 Mad Al-Jaffee

Sometimes I think it still is one.

Close. Now a sewer.

223 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:26am

re: #222 Cannadian Club Akbar

Close. Now a sewer.

Or "Cesspool on the Potomac," as Lisa Simpson called it.

224 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:36am

Good morning, folks.

If vegetable oil is made from vegetables, and peanut oil is made from peanuts, what about baby oil?

225 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:55am

re: #209 Mad Al-Jaffee

What about killer bees?

Buzzz.

226 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:41:24am

re: #210 Ojoe

We drained the swamps, but we don't say swamp anymore, we say endangered wetland now.

Vocabulary is power.

227 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:41:59am

re: #211 Obdicut

That also goes to the due diligence of the ratings companies like Moodys, which didn't notice any issues with the repackaged debt, even though it was craptacular and didn't warrant the ratings they got.

228 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:42:38am

re: #212 Walter L. Newton

I went to bed last night, but someone emailed me stating that Ludwig wished death by fire on Bagua, on line, on one of last nights threads, and that the message was deleted.

Did anyone see that?

Oh, my. I went to bed at one point.

229 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:42:44am

re: #218 Rightwingconspirator

That's just awful. I lose interest in the threads that catch fire.

We are not talking about a "heated" thread. The claimed made to me in an email was that Ludwig posted a comment, on LGF, hoping Bagua would die in a fire. Charles appropriately deleted it.

230 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:02am

re: #210 Ojoe

We drained the swamps, but we don't say swamp anymore, we say endangered wetland now.

Reminds me of my old high school. It is slowly sinking into the, er, uh, endangered wetland at an alarming rate. Can't say I'm sorry to see it go.

231 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:03am

re: #221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dubai was a desert.

Dubai is still a desert. Disney at least drained the swamps, filled 'em in and built a resort. Dubai still doesn't get sufficient water and has to desalinate its water to exist (to say nothing of needing a bailout from its neighbors to avoid a default).

232 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:41am

re: #214 oaktree

Sounds like a very interesting bunch of folks!

233 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:46:01am

re: #223 Mad Al-Jaffee

Or "Cesspool on the Potomac," as Lisa Simpson called it.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

234 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:46:23am

re: #220 Cannadian Club Akbar

I just got done reading a book about shrimp, Shrimp: The Endless Quest for Pink Gold.

One item the authors point out is that the the swamp draining and development in Florida basically gutted the wild shrimping industry there. The mangrove swamps were breeding and living habitat for some of the marketable species, and there was no longer enough organic matter washing down and spreading for them to feed on.

I've seen a few books on "wild" food sources that eventually get wiped out since their preferred environment for living/breeding conflicts with how man prefers it to be. The main other case being the Atlantic and Pacific salmon, who like streams and rivers in ways that man does not.

235 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:17am

re: #225 MandyManners

Buzzz.

Heh.

236 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:18am

re: #230 thedopefishlives

Are they going to build the replacement high school on top of that one?

237 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:28am

The Pentagon has painted a grim picture of Taiwan's air defense capabilities, saying that many of the island's 400 combat aircraft would not be available to help withstand an attack from rival China.

The U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency report obtained Monday by The Associated Press says "far fewer of these are operationally capable," an unusually strong indictment of Taiwanese defense readiness.

By pointing out the island's shortcomings, the report could provide justification for Washington to grant a Taiwanese request for relatively advanced F-16 jet fighters, a key element in its arms procurement wish list.

SNIP

238 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:30am

re: #221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dubai was a desert.

So was the Los Angeles area.

239 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:44am

re: #227 lawhawk

Yep. And instead of admitting that these things were too complicated for them to figure out, they pretended that instruments of such complexity were completely comprehensible by them.

To me, it's a complexity problem, as Gawande and Dennett have written about. Most of the financial industries theories are recursive, circular reasoning, dependent on individual theorems that cannot be tested except in massive real world application. Common sense should say that mortage defaults are something that have the potential happen in waves, in large numbers-- which is exactly what happened.

The outstanding question for me is whether those in the financial industry knew how foolish they were being, or whether the complexity of these instruments is such that it hid the risk from themselves-- and that leads to a question of how we recognize overly complex financial instruments and prevent them from blowing up on us.

240 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:54am

re: #236 oaktree

Are they going to build the replacement high school on top of that one?

Probably, but I imagine it'll burn down, fall over, and then sink into the swamp.

241 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:55am

re: #234 oaktree

My neighbor growing up was a commercial shrimper. So I disagree with the author.

242 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:48:42am

re: #232 MandyManners

I don't need to watch soap operas. My extended family on my father's side essentially *is* one.

243 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:48:47am

re: #231 lawhawk

The "Life After People" segment on Dubai, was fascinating.

Desert gonna swallow it right back up.

244 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:50:04am

re: #240 thedopefishlives

But the one built on it after that will stay up and be one of the strongest high schools in the kingdom.

But the principal will ban singing...

245 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:50:16am

re: #235 NJDhockeyfan

Heh.

I LOVE IT!

246 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:50:51am

re: #238 darthstar

So was the Los Angeles area.

It still is. The water is imported.

247 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:51:11am

re: #241 Cannadian Club Akbar

What is/was his opinion on the use of TEDs?

248 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:51:52am

re: #242 oaktree

I don't need to watch soap operas. My extended family on my father's side essentially *is* one.

I have an aunt whose life could make one but, she's a flaming nut.

249 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:51:58am

re: #247 oaktree

What is/was his opinion on the use of TEDs?

He was retired from shrimping before the TED's law was in place.

250 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:53:03am

re: #239 Obdicut

Agreed. I would take that one step further and note that the very issues of complexity are ones that should bring caution to anyone pushing for a swift change to health care delivery in the US.

It's interesting watching the White House pivot and try to distance itself from the Reid and Pelosi plans with one of its own to be released this week. Seemingly small changes being proposed by the WH - like limiting premium increases that insurers can pass on to their customers might have serious unintended consequences - like limiting health care option - precisely because we are talking about a vast and complex system.

251 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:53:07am

re: #247 oaktree

What is/was his opinion on the use of TEDs?

And that reminds me, restaurants here sell "grouper." It's usually cod. Cheaters.

252 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:53:17am

re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ah.

What I do find amusing about shrimp is that folk generally won't eat land-based arthropods, but outside of some religious practices the sea-based ones are fair game for a meal.

253 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:53:57am

re: #243 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The "Life After People" segment on Dubai, was fascinating.

Desert gonna swallow it right back up.

Then we have to do something about it fast. How about some "sand credits" to mitigate the encroaching desert. How about we get the UN to develop a special committee, the IPSS (International Panel on Shifting Sand) and they can publish some papers to tell us what to expect in, let's say 2035. Or maybe someone can make an exploitive movie call "An Inconvenient Desert" that will kick start the AMS (Anthropogenic Moving Sands) movement.

254 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:55:00am

re: #253 Walter L. Newton

Then we have to do something about it fast. How about some "sand credits" to mitigate the encroaching desert. How about we get the UN to develop a special committee, the IPSS (International Panel on Shifting Sand) and they can publish some papers to tell us what to expect in, let's say 2035. Or maybe someone can make an exploitive movie call "An Inconvenient Desert" that will kick start the AMS (Anthropogenic Moving Sands) movement.

Mandy can help. She often gets sand in her shorts.
/

255 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:56:36am

re: #254 Cannadian Club Akbar

I read Walter's post wrong. D'oh!

256 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:57:32am

Assailants killed eight members of a Shiite family in a village outside Baghdad on Monday, shooting some and beheading others, just one of a series of pre-election shooting and car bombing attacks that swept the country, killing 22 people in all.

Attacks on civilians were commonplace at the height of the sectarian fighting in 2006 and 2007. The targeting of civilians on Monday, especially the beheadings considered a hallmark of Sunni insurgents, raised concerns that the vicious sectarian violence that nearly tore the country apart could resurface.

Associated Press television video of the attack on the family in Wahda, a mixed Shiite-Sunni village 20 miles (30 kilometers) south of Baghdad, showed a blood-soaked mattress and carpet, and stuffed animals strewn across the floor.

SNIP

Fucking animals.

257 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:57:37am

re: #248 MandyManners

Luckily it's a bit spread out. Not all the bad stuff lands on one particular person. But the marriages, divorces, kids out of wedlock, teen pregnancy, etc. happens. Lots of stuff to talk about at the occasional get-togethers; mainly funerals at this point. (Though the one branch has annual reunions that I get invited to. I need to a program to keep people straight. Ten first cousins, and it expands geometrically from there...)

258 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:02am

re: #251 Cannadian Club Akbar

Quite a bit of fish isn't what it appears to be.

They hit 4 restaurants and 10 grocery stores in Manhattan. Once the samples were home, whether in doggie bags or shopping bags, they cut away a small piece and preserved it in alcohol. They sent those off to the University of Guelph in Ontario, where the Barcode of Life Database project began. A graduate student there, Eugene Wong, works on the Fish Barcode of Life (dubbed, inevitably, Fish-BOL) and agreed to do the genetic analysis. He compared the teenagers’ samples with the global library of 30,562 bar codes representing nearly 5,500 fish species. (Commercial labs will also perform the analysis for a fee.)

Three hundred dollars’ worth of meals later, the young researchers had their data back from Guelph: 2 of the 4 restaurants and 6 of the 10 grocery stores had sold mislabeled fish.

Only way to know for sure is to run DNA tests, but that's simply not practical for the typical consumer.

And the problems aren't confined to sushi joints either. Fishmongers might be getting misled as well. Then there are the renaming of fish to ease their sale - Patagonian toothfish is now Chilean sea bass.

259 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:18am

re: #244 oaktree

But the one built on it after that will stay up and be one of the strongest high schools in the kingdom.

But the principal will ban singing...

Nothing like a bit of Monty Python to start off an utterly boring and meeting-filled Monday. Which reminds me, first one is coming up here shortly. I shall return after I wake up.

260 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:56am

Toyota: Democrats 'not industry friendly'

Internal Toyota documents derided the Obama administration and Democratic Congress as “activist” and “not industry friendly," a revelation that comes days before the giant automaker's top executives testify on Capitol Hill amid a giant recall.

According to a presentation obtained under subpoena by the House Oversight and Government Relations committee, Toyota referred to the “changing political environment” as one of its main challenges and anticipated a "more challenging regulatory" environment under the Obama administration's purview.

Ouch!

262 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:59:45am

re: #250 lawhawk

Health care is already overly complex, though. Single-payer, for example, would be an enormous reduction in complexity of the system. If you want less complexity, then that's the direction to move in.

I'm not sure why you turned this conversation towards an attack on healthcare, especially since the amount of complex regulation and other workarounds necessary to get private insurance companies to actually provide coverage to all who need it would be the very definition of overcomplexity.

263 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:00:33am

re: #259 thedopefishlives

Glad to help. I have a big "town hall" meeting to attend this afternoon. More nebulous details regarding the upcoming sale of part of the company. Should know in a week or so though whether or not I'll be "traded" as part of the deal. (Which might not be a bad thing.)

264 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:00:56am

re: #258 lawhawk

The places I know I either worked at or knew someone working there. They know what they're doing. Grouper season shuts down for about 3 months a year. Regular restaurants, not sushi places.

265 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:00:58am

re: #261 thedopefishlives

Yes, Mandy, that's exactly what they do: Fuck animals.

When is PETA going to go over there and protest?

266 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:01:24am

re: #256 MandyManners

Assailants killed eight members of a Shiite family in a village outside Baghdad on Monday, shooting some and beheading others, just one of a series of pre-election shooting and car bombing attacks that swept the country, killing 22 people in all.

I will say I prefer our custom of T-shirts, bumper-stickers, and attack ads.

267 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:01:29am

re: #262 Obdicut

Health care is already overly complex, though. Single-payer, for example, would be an enormous reduction in complexity of the system. If you want less complexity, then that's the direction to move in.

I'm not sure why you turned this conversation towards an attack on healthcare, especially since the amount of complex regulation and other workarounds necessary to get private insurance companies to actually provide coverage to all who need it would be the very definition of overcomplexity.

On who's dime?

268 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:02:39am

re: #253 Walter L. Newton

That's the equivalent of saying "this" three times.

269 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:02:45am

re: #234 oaktree

Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it.

270 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:03:27am

re: #268 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's the equivalent of saying "this" three times.

Biggie Smalls
Biggie Smalls
Biggie....

271 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:04:04am

re: #268 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's the equivalent of saying "this" three times.

That reminds me, I haven't had breakfast yet...

272 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:04:12am

re: #268 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's the equivalent of saying "this" three times.

I have NO idea what connection you are making between my satirical post and some folklore. Explain?

273 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:04:54am

re: #269 Mad Al-Jaffee

Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it.

I boil shrimp shells for my base when making my white seafood chowder. My shrimp salad also rules.

274 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:06:12am

re: #265 NJDhockeyfan

When is PETA going to go over there and protest?

PETA would rather harass women wearing mink.

275 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:06:33am

re: #273 Cannadian Club Akbar

I boil shrimp shells for my base when making my white seafood chowder. My shrimp salad also rules.

Me too. But I make a red seafood soup, with shrimp, fish and tomatoes.

276 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:06:38am

Taliban kill 2 Sikhs, send heads to Pak gurdwara

The Taliban has reportedly beheaded two Sikhs in Pakistan's lawless tribal region bordering Afghanistan and sent the heads to a gurdwara.

Jaspal Singh and Mahan Singh, both businessmen, were kidnapped from Tira Valley, in Khyber agency, and Darra Adamkheil, in Orakzai agency, on January 19 and held for ransom. Sources in the area told TOI on Sunday that they were killed because they were paying `protection' money to a rival faction.

However, according to security sources in New Delhi, Jaspal and Mahan were reportedly told to convert to Islam or face death. When they refused, their heads were chopped off and sent to the Bhai Joga Singh gurdwara in Peshawar.

277 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:07:04am

re: #274 MandyManners

PETA would rather harass women wearing mink.

They won't lop off their heads.

278 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:07:10am

re: #266 darthstar

I will say I prefer our custom of T-shirts, bumper-stickers, and attack ads.

Partisan bickering rocks.

279 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:08:18am

re: #277 NJDhockeyfan

They won't lop off their heads.

I suppose that's worse than throwing red paint.

280 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:08:26am

re: #262 Obdicut

I analogized towards the current health care debate since it's about to heat up again since the White House announced that they'll be proposing their own version this week.

And it's my opinion that these proposals are not going to lead to simplicity since any and all of the plans being proffered involves government oversight and bureaucracy - adding at least another layer of bureaucracy that adds to costs.

281 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:08:56am
282 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:10:06am

It is 22 Feb, and Die Sonne scheint noch.

[Link: www.holocaustresearchproject.org...]

283 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:10:22am

A blast apparently aimed at Pakistani security forces ripped through a busy market in the northwestern Swat Valley on Monday, killing at least eight people and wounding dozens of others, officials and witnesses said.

The attack in the district capital of Mingora was the latest violence in the region along the border with Afghanistan where the military has been waging offensives against Taliban militants, who have been fighting back, often with homemade bombs.

That bolded bit seems to try to legitimize the bombings.

284 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:10:59am

re: #280 lawhawk

I analogized towards the current health care debate since it's about to heat up again since the White House announced that they'll be proposing their own version this week.

And it's my opinion that these proposals are not going to lead to simplicity since any and all of the plans being proffered involves government oversight and bureaucracy - adding at least another layer of bureaucracy that adds to costs.

But that new layer of bureaucracy will also add tot he jobs saved/created pool... it's a win-win... we get free government managed health care and more jobs.

285 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:11:30am

re: #283 MandyManners

A blast apparently aimed at Pakistani security forces ripped through a busy market in the northwestern Swat Valley on Monday, killing at least eight people and wounding dozens of others, officials and witnesses said.

That bolded bit seems to try to legitimize the bombings.

How do you get that impression? Fighting back implies that they are somehow justified?

286 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:11:38am

re: #283 MandyManners

A blast apparently aimed at Pakistani security forces ripped through a busy market in the northwestern Swat Valley on Monday, killing at least eight people and wounding dozens of others, officials and witnesses said.

That bolded bit seems to try to legitimize the bombings.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, after all.

/I have heard that stupid line so many times recently, and it makes me choke every damn time

287 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:12:44am

re: #282 Decatur Deb

It is 22 Feb, and Die Sonne scheint noch.

[Link: www.holocaustresearchproject.org...]

Wow.

288 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:12:49am

re: #285 drcordell

How do you get that impression? Fighting back implies that they are somehow justified?

Fighting back against who? Do you think the terrorists are somehow fighting back against someone?

289 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:13:05am

re: #284 Walter L. Newton

But that new layer of bureaucracy will also add tot he jobs saved/created pool... it's a win-win... we get free government managed health care and more jobs.

You act like there isn't already an entire army of bureaucrats that already administer your healthcare. The difference is, currently they are bureaucrats who work for an insurance company. Bureaucrats that have an economic incentive from their employer to deny your claim.

290 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:15:20am

‘Homegrown’ Terrorism Threat Grew in Past Year, Napolitano Says

Feb. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said the threat of “homegrown” terrorism increased during the past year and more U.S. citizens or legal residents are “becoming radicalized to the point of violence.”

Napolitano, speaking yesterday during a panel discussion at a meeting of the National Governors Association in Washington, said the U.S. doesn’t have a co-ordinated plan for stopping the spread of militancy.

“We really don’t have a very good handle on how you prevent someone from becoming a violent extremist,” she said. Napolitano recommended studying efforts in foreign countries and states such as Minnesota to expand contacts with Muslim and immigrant communities.

Several incidents last year underscored the influence of militant ideas among some U.S. citizens. Military officials have charged Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan with killing 13 and injuring 43 in a Nov. 5 shooting rampage at Fort Hood in Texas.

Somehow George Bush and/or global warming will ultimately be blamed for this.

291 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:15:47am

re: #289 drcordell

And how would that be any different if it were managed by govt employees?

292 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:16:05am

re: #288 NJDhockeyfan

Fighting back against who? Do you think the terrorists are somehow fighting back against someone?

Yes they are fighting back, fighting back against the Pakistani Army. I'm not saying they are justified, but they are certainly fighting back. I am just not understanding how the completely descriptive use of that phrase somehow implies who is right and who is wrong.

Let's say I have some reason to punch you in the face, so I do so. Then you get up and punch me in my face. I would say you are "fighting back." Doesn't mean you are right, doesn't mean you are wrong. You've simply counter-attacked me. The phrase doesn't imply justification either way.

293 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:16:38am

re: #289 drcordell

You act like there isn't already an entire army of bureaucrats that already administer your healthcare. The difference is, currently they are bureaucrats who work for an insurance company. Bureaucrats that have an economic incentive from their employer to deny your claim.

I don't have health care. I don't have a job. I haven't been able to get a job full time job in my profession in 5 years.

And any army of private bureaucrats are certainly more efficient at what they are doing than twice as many government bureaucrats. I worked for the DOE for 13 years, I know.

294 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:16:49am

*rolls eyes*

295 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:17:15am

re: #292 drcordell

Yes they are fighting back, fighting back against the Pakistani Army. I'm not saying they are justified, but they are certainly fighting back. I am just not understanding how the completely descriptive use of that phrase somehow implies who is right and who is wrong.

Let's say I have some reason to punch you in the face, so I do so. Then you get up and punch me in my face. I would say you are "fighting back." Doesn't mean you are right, doesn't mean you are wrong. You've simply counter-attacked me. The phrase doesn't imply justification either way.

WOW.

296 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:17:33am

re: #291 RogueOne

And how would that be any different if it were managed by govt employees?

My friend sat at the DMV for 2 hours last week.

297 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:18:13am

Daughter says pilot in Texas IRS crash was a hero

AUSTIN, Texas – The daughter of a man who crashed his small plane into a building housing offices of the Internal Revenue Service called her father a hero for his anti-government views but said his actions, which killed an IRS employee, were "inappropriate."

298 Liberal Classic  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:18:45am

re: #199 Walter L. Newton

Anyone even slightly familiar with 1984 would not suggest that bin Laden is representative of the Emmanuel Goldstein character. That is hyperbole and David Ray Griffin know that.

Lame.

To be clear, the characterization of bin Laden as Goldstein is my interpretation of Griffin's views, not a direct quote. As a truther, Griffin believes our government is not just complicit but fully culpable for 911. In the BBC videos, Griffin suggests CIA involvement with bin Laden as far back as the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He suggests the government has made bin Laden the recognizable face of the War on Terror through the release of digitally manipulated video tapes and audio recordings.

299 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:19:04am

re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar

My friend sat at the DMV for 2 hours last week.

They will run health care much better. You can bet your life on it.
//

300 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:19:21am

re: #291 RogueOne

And how would that be any different if it were managed by govt employees?

Well, because the Government isn't attempting to make a profit. Have you ever met anyone who worked as a claims adjuster for an insurance company? They have quotas for accepted claims. Doesn't matter that every claim they receive could be 100% legitimate. They are only supposed to accept a certain dollar amount of liability for the Firm in any given time period.

Want to keep your job? Deny claims. Want to get a promotion? Get really good at denying claims. Have a problem writing letters to people telling them that their legitimate claim has been denied? Not going to be around for long.

301 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:20:08am

re: #299 NJDhockeyfan

They will run health care much better. You can bet your life on it.
//

They had 1 guy running 2 separate lines: walk ins and those with an appointment. 1 guy.

302 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:20:14am

re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar

My friend sat at the DMV for 2 hours last week.

Yes. Because the DMV is exactly the same as health care. Christ what a sad defense of the status quo.

303 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:20:33am

re: #268 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Rising the arguers from the depths...

304 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:21:13am

re: #297 NJDhockeyfan

Daughter says pilot in Texas IRS crash was a hero

now maybe people will listen

Yeah. People are gonna' listen to a terrorist. Sure thing.

305 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:21:21am

re: #295 NJDhockeyfan

WOW.

Again. Explain to me how the fuck the use of the term "fighting back" implies ANY sort of justification. Fighting back simply means there is FIGHTING. It doesn't mean the group "fighting back" is right or wrong.

306 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:21:44am

re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar

My friend sat at the DMV for 2 hours last week.

I have never (not once) been in the DMV office here for more than a 45 minutes. Including wait time.

307 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:22:03am

Buncha' fucking Commie shit is being spewed again.

DON'T LOOK, ETHEL.

308 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:22:16am

re: #302 drcordell

Yes. Because the DMV is exactly the same as health care. Christ what a sad defense of the status quo.

I don't think I brought up healthcare at that point, did I? And still didn't. I did, however, respond to a comment later.

309 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:22:36am

re: #298 Liberal Classic

To be clear, the characterization of bin Laden as Goldstein is my interpretation of Griffin's views, not a direct quote. As a truther, Griffin believes our government is not just complicit but fully culpable for 911. In the BBC videos, Griffin suggests CIA involvement with bin Laden as far back as the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He suggests the government has made bin Laden the recognizable face of the War on Terror through the release of digitally manipulated video tapes and audio recordings.

I'm sorry, I thought you were agreeing with Griffin.

In general, I wish people would be much more careful with using 1984 as a mirror for things they see happening in contemporary society.

I consider myself an expert on Orwell and 1984, I did an awful lot of research on my stage adaptation ([Link: newton.acrossthebow.com...] and really, Orwell was writing about something that most of us will never experience, or even come close to.

310 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:23:01am

Cognitive dissonance alert. Joe Stack's daughter says his dad was wrong to crash his plane into the IRS building, but still calls him a hero.

"I think too many people lay around and wait for things to happen. But if nobody comes out and speaks up on behalf of injustice, then nothing will ever be accomplished," Samantha Bell, Joseph Stack's daughter from his first marriage, told "Good Morning America" in a phone interview that aired Monday morning.

Stack killed Vernon Hunter, a 61-year-old IRS collection agent and a Vietnam veteran, when he steered his small plane on a suicide mission that burned down the Austin office building. He also set his own house ablaze and posted a bitter Internet rant against the IRS, Wall Street, the Catholic Church and corporate "thugs."

Even so, his daughter says he should be respected. Stack is a hero, Bell said, "because now maybe people will listen."

Your dad murdered an IRS worker who was a Vietnam veteran. For that you're a hero? Nope. You're still a murdering thug who refused to take responsibility for his own situation and blamed everyone else for his own financial shenanigans that led to his business issues in California and tax obligations in California and with the IRS.

311 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:23:13am

re: #306 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have never (not once) been in the DMV office here for more than a 45 minutes. Including wait time.

I used to renew my license online, but the rules changed here.

312 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:24:13am

re: #302 drcordell

Yes. Because the DMV is exactly the same as health care. Christ what a sad defense of the status quo.

Please don't use the word "Christ" in the way you do. There are some people on here who are sensitive to their religious beliefs and language like that is insulting.

Unless that was your intent?

313 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:24:42am

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

I'm sorry, I thought you were agreeing with Griffin.

In general, I wish people would be much more careful with using 1984 as a mirror for things they see happening in contemporary society.

I consider myself an expert on Orwell and 1984, I did an awful lot of research on my stage adaptation ([Link: newton.acrossthebow.com...] and really, Orwell was writing about something that most of us will never experience, or even come close to.

Unless you happened to be a detainee that Dick Cheney decided to send to Room 101. Remember the guy who they found out was terribly afraid of insects, so they tortured him with bugs. Might as well have been lifted directly from the novel.

314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:25:04am

re: #300 drcordell

My experience is that Medicaid/Medicare don't deny claims so much as limit /deny service.

Mom's gotta wait for 3 months for another x-ray to see if an MRI is necessary to look at her lungs.

315 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:25:31am

re: #305 drcordell

Again. Explain to me how the fuck the use of the term "fighting back" implies ANY sort of justification. Fighting back simply means there is FIGHTING. It doesn't mean the group "fighting back" is right or wrong.

Those blood thirsty islamic goons have been killing innocent civilians & politicians for years. The Paki gov't tried to negotiate a peaceful settlement with them and were met with more bombings. How the fuck is that 'fighting back'?

The Paki army is fighting back.

316 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:25:38am

re: #313 drcordell

You can't possibly be serious.

317 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:25:47am

Would Stack's daughter have called him a "hero" if he had managed to kill his wife and younger daughter in that house fire?

318 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:26:09am

re: #310 lawhawk

I hope they allow the victims family members to piss on his ashes.

319 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:26:44am

re: #317 MandyManners

Would Stack's daughter have called him a "hero" if he had managed to kill his wife and younger daughter in that house fire?

She's an idiot. She should wear a helmet.

320 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:27:05am

re: #319 Cannadian Club Akbar

She's an idiot. She should wear a helmet.

Stay in Norway.

321 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:27:40am

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My experience is that Medicaid/Medicare don't deny claims so much as limit /deny service.

Mom's gotta wait for 3 months for another x-ray to see if an MRI is necessary to look at her lungs.

Same happens with corporate insurers...

322 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:27:40am

re: #319 Cannadian Club Akbar

She's an idiot. She should wear a helmet.

Behold, the Enormous Foam Helm of Stupidity.

323 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:27:44am

re: #313 drcordell

Unless you happened to be a detainee that Dick Cheney decided to send to Room 101. Remember the guy who they found out was terribly afraid of insects, so they tortured him with bugs. Might as well have been lifted directly from the novel.

Maybe the terrorists in Pakistan are fighting back against Dick Cheney.

324 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:28:27am

re: #321 ShaunP

Same happens with corporate insurers...

Bullshit.

325 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:28:38am

re: #313 drcordell

Unless you happened to be a detainee that Dick Cheney decided to send to Room 101. Remember the guy who they found out was terribly afraid of insects, so they tortured him with bugs. Might as well have been lifted directly from the novel.

Hyperbole. You have no idea what 1984 is about. It is about totalitarianism, a all encompassing government that controls what you do, say, eat, when you sleep, what you read, what you listen too, a cradle to grave check list of what you can and can't do.

You have never experienced anything like that. Well, maybe I'm wrong, that sounds a bit like progressives, doesn't it.

326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:28:38am

re: #313 drcordell

I hope that Dick Cheney knows that I am terrified of Chocolate cake with chocolate cream icing.

and pie.

327 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:28:50am

re: #323 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe the terrorists in Pakistan are fighting back against Dick Cheney.

I thought that was Joe Biden's job.

328 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:29:37am

re: #320 MandyManners

She has the same kind of entitlement attitude as her dad - she claims that Medicaid didn't take care of her when she was pregnant, so she went to Norway - where she pays even higher taxes but claims she gets more for it.

329 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:29:55am

re: #316 thedopefishlives

You can't possibly be serious.

Dead serious.

"You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world." -1984

For Winston Smith, the worst thing in the world was rats. So he was tortured with rats.

For Abu Zubaydah, the worst thing in the world was bugs. So he was tortured with bugs.

330 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:29:59am

re: #326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hope that Dick Cheney knows that I am terrified of Chocolate cake with chocolate cream icing.

and pie.

Cashmere skeeers me.

331 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:30:14am

re: #326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hope that Dick Cheney knows that I am terrified of Chocolate cake with chocolate cream icing.

and pie.

Heh. I fear beer.

332 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:30:42am

re: #328 lawhawk

She has the same kind of entitlement attitude as her dad - she claims that Medicaid didn't take care of her when she was pregnant, so she went to Norway - where she pays even higher taxes but claims she gets more for it.

Entitlement zips all around the political spectrum.

333 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:31:06am

re: #324 MandyManners

Bullshit.

I can give you examples if you like. My gf is a psychologist at an eating disorder facility and deals with insurance all the time. My father is also an OBGYN; so is my uncle. My sister is a nurse. Trust me, it happens a lot...

334 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:31:08am

re: #330 MandyManners

Natalie Portman, Gal Gadot, and Esti Ginzberg. They scare me. /need I

335 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:31:45am

re: #331 Cannadian Club Akbar

Heh. I fear beer.

Pearls turn me into a quivering mass.

336 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:31:49am

re: #324 MandyManners

Bullshit.

It's obvious when you have nothing constructive to say because you simply start hurling profanity. Of course private insurers deny claims, it's the basis of their entire business model.

337 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:32:02am

re: #331 Cannadian Club Akbar

Heh. I fear beer.

And...Cheryl Bernard scares the shit out of me.

338 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:32:20am

re: #333 ShaunP

So, you're willing to switch one bureaucracy with another - whose powers of efficiency and enforcement include the IRS?

339 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:32:26am

re: #335 MandyManners

Pearls turn me into a quivering mass.

Hahahahaha torture IS SO FUNNY!

340 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:32:41am

re: #297 NJDhockeyfan

Daughter says pilot in Texas IRS crash was a hero

Shit doesn't fall far from the ass...or was that fruit/tree/

341 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:32:54am

re: #334 lawhawk

Natalie Portman, Gal Gadot, and Esti Ginzberg. They scare me. /need I

George Clooney sends me screaming through the streets.

342 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:32:59am

re: #335 MandyManners

You're an oyster?

343 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:33:17am

re: #329 drcordell

Dead serious.

"You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world." -1984

For Winston Smith, the worst thing in the world was rats. So he was tortured with rats.

For Abu Zubaydah, the worst thing in the world was bugs. So he was tortured with bugs.

And Abu Zubaydah torture was/is part of a totalitarian government?

344 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:33:34am

re: #338 lawhawk

So, you're willing to switch one bureaucracy with another - whose powers of efficiency and enforcement include the IRS?

I'm willing to offer it as an option to compete against corporate insurance companies...

345 Silvergirl  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:33:58am

re: #297 NJDhockeyfan

Daughter says pilot in Texas IRS crash was a hero

Sad situation. She lost her dad in a shocking way and has to be trying to justify things. Of course it isn't acceptable to call him a hero for his act of terrorism, so she stops short of that and says the heroism is for his beliefs. But here's another person who was raised with the politics of Joe Stack. You never know which direction kids will take. Alcoholics sometimes have kids who are so disgusted with the example before them as they grew up that they'll never touch a drop, while others will become alcoholics themselves. Looks like Stack's daughter is following in Dad's footsteps. Let's hope if she has kids that she cuts that hero business before they aspire to grow up and kill a veteran just like their hero Grandpa!

346 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:34:02am

re: #342 oaktree

You're an oyster?

I hate months with the letter "r" in them.

347 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:34:03am

In ancient wall, scholar sees proof for Bible

JERUSALEM – An Israeli archaeologist said Monday that ancient fortifications recently excavated in Jerusalem date back 3,000 years to the time of King Solomon and support the biblical narrative about the era.

If the age of the wall is correct, the finding would be an indication that Jerusalem was home to a strong central government that had the resources and manpower needed to build massive fortifications in the 10th century B.C.

That's a key point of dispute among scholars, because it would match the Bible's account that the Hebrew kings David and Solomon ruled from Jerusalem around that time.

While some Holy Land archaeologists support that version of history — including the archaeologist behind the dig, Eilat Mazar — others posit that David's monarchy was largely mythical and that there was no strong government to speak of in that era.

Speaking to reporters at the site Monday, Mazar called her find "the most significant construction we have from First Temple days in Israel."

"It means that at that time, the 10th century, in Jerusalem there was a regime capable of carrying out such construction," she said.

Based on what she believes to be the age of the fortifications and their location, she suggested it was built by Solomon, David's son, and mentioned in the Book of Kings.

348 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:34:28am

re: #341 MandyManners

George Clooney sends me screaming through the streets.

Keep laughing it up. Your wise-cracks only belie the fact that you don't have anything to say that can defend your position. You embrace torture.

349 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:35:09am

re: #345 Silvergirl

Lawhawk has an interesting take on it in No. 328.

350 gymmom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:35:19am

re: #348 drcordell

Keep laughing it up. Your wise-cracks only belie the fact that you don't have anything to say that can defend your position. You embrace torture.

OK, gotta ask - What exactly did the bugs do to the guy to constitute torture?

351 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:35:55am

re: #348 drcordell

Doc? I embrace it wholeheartedly. Circumstances being correct...

352 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:35:57am

re: #348 drcordell

Keep laughing it up. Your wise-cracks only belie the fact that you don't have anything to say that can defend your position. You embrace torture.

Pssst...Americans are the real terrorists, aren't they? You can tell me, I won't tell anyone. ;)

353 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:35:58am

re: #329 drcordell

Dead serious.

"You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world." -1984

The Black Eyed Peas?

354 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:36:02am

re: #350 gymmom

OK, gotta ask - What exactly did the bugs do to the guy to constitute torture?

He was ascared of them. Good thing the guy never lived in Florida.

355 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:36:09am

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

And Abu Zubaydah torture was/is part of a totalitarian government?

To Abu Zubaydah they were certainly totalitarian. Were they not? Do you think he gives a fuck what form of Government was torturing him?

356 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:36:21am

re: #350 gymmom

Gave him "such a pinch".

357 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:36:23am

re: #336 drcordell

It's obvious when you have nothing constructive to say because you simply start hurling profanity. Of course private insurers deny claims, it's the basis of their entire business model.

And the Administration's concern over health care is costs - and how exactly is that going to be contained except by denying care? You can't bend the cost curve without affecting the care provided.

The Administration pushed a study that found that certain hospitals that limited care fared particularly well. It ignored that those who spent more on care actually had better outcomes.

The Dartmouth Atlas uses payment information from the federal Medicare program, which provides health care to the elderly, to compare the amounts spent by hospitals on those who die in their care. But Dr. Bach argues that the comparisons make no effort to determine if the hospitals are any better at saving people’s lives, and do little to adjust for the relative health of the patients being treated, among other problems.

The Dartmouth Atlas tends to rate poorly hospitals that provide lots of expensive procedures. But a different study published last week by researchers at the University of Pittsburgh found that patients tend to live longer in such intensive care hospitals.

“We are about to embark on a huge transformation of our health care system,” Dr. Bach said. “If we start with a bunch of flawed measures, it will be as devastating as putting in the wrong coordinates before a moon shot.”

Dr. Elliott S. Fisher, director of the Center for Health Policy Research at the Dartmouth Institute, said the larger issue was that just because a hospital charges a lot does not mean that it delivers good care. But Dr. Fisher agreed that the current Atlas measures should not be use to set hospital payment rates, and that looking at the care of patients at the end of life provides only limited insight into the quality of care provided to those patients. He said he and his colleagues should not be held responsible for the misinterpretation of their data.

The WH refused comment, claiming it was an academic argument, even though it's central to the whole notion of cost, health care, and what you pay for versus the quality of care.

358 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:37:10am

re: #335 MandyManners

Pearls turn me into a quivering mass.

Salma Hayek is my worst fear. Especially if she's wearing a bikini.

359 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:37:39am

re: #329 drcordell

Dead serious.

"You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world." -1984

For Winston Smith, the worst thing in the world was rats. So he was tortured with rats.

For Abu Zubaydah, the worst thing in the world was bugs. So he was tortured with bugs.

And Abu Zubaydah torture was/is part of a totalitarian government? I can take almost ANY book and find certain incidents in the book that could be mimicked in contemporary society.

But an intelligent person understands that 1984 is about a all inclusive system, not a few parallels. Those sorts of "torture," wrong or right, have been around much longer than 1984.

It's convenient and lazy to try to hold 1984 up against contemporary society. 1984 is a warning, not a prophecy.

360 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:37:41am

re: #350 gymmom

OK, gotta ask - What exactly did the bugs do to the guy to constitute torture?

They were torture because they are what he fears most. It's all in the eye of the beholder. For the protagonist of 1984 it was rats. For Zubadyah it was bugs. For you, it might be a wild dog. Everyone has a worst fear.

"You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world." - 1984

361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:37:59am

re: #358 Mad Al-Jaffee

Salma Hayek is my worst fear. Especially if she's wearing a bikini fat bastard.

362 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:38:06am

re: #347 NJDhockeyfan

In ancient wall, scholar sees proof for Bible

Gonna' print that out for my mom. She loves Biblical archeology.

363 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:38:29am

re: #355 drcordell

To Abu Zubaydah they were certainly totalitarian. Were they not? Do you think he gives a fuck what form of Government was torturing him?

You know nothing about the word totalitarian. Stop looking silly.

364 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:38:51am

No kimchi for the lot of you!

365 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:38:58am

re: #351 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Doc? I embrace it wholeheartedly. Circumstances being correct...

There you go, at least you have the nerve to admit that you have no moral qualms torturing suspected terrorists. Not confirmed terrorists, but suspected terrorists. Yes, I'm sure we have tortured many guilty men. But I am equally as sure that we have tortured innocent ones.

366 Liberal Classic  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:39:05am

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

I'm sorry, I thought you were agreeing with Griffin.

In general, I wish people would be much more careful with using 1984 as a mirror for things they see happening in contemporary society.

I consider myself an expert on Orwell and 1984, I did an awful lot of research on my stage adaptation ([Link: newton.acrossthebow.com...] and really, Orwell was writing about something that most of us will never experience, or even come close to.

While I don't consider myself to be a literary expert on the writings of George Orwell, I the 911truth movement's views on bin Laden make a fair analog with Emmanuel Goldstein. Griffin's latest book "Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?" is all about how the War on Terror is a CIA psychological operation on the American people. In this operation, bin Laden plays the role of tangible enemy. Fake audio and video tapes are released and rumors of "bin Laden sightings" are occasionally reported to bolster public support of the "eternal" war on terror, for U.S. military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, and various foreign and domestic policies.

367 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:39:10am

re: #361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You never fail to entertain.:)

368 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:40:26am

re: #344 ShaunP

Compete with the private insurers? On an even footing - meaning that the government option has the same footing as the private insurers, can't run deficits that get bailed out by the government unlike insurers that have to raise premiums to cover their costs, and that the policies provide similar/identical coverages?

If the government insurer can run deficits and has to impose various penalties for compliance - like penalties if you do not seek to obtain insurance, is that fair to the private insurer? The private insurer can't force anyone to join, but that's central to the government's proposals.

369 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:40:39am

re: #365 drcordell

And I agree. I am confident that we have not done it for sport. We do that? Game changer.

370 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:42:08am

re: #366 Liberal Classic

While I don't consider myself to be a literary expert on the writings of George Orwell, I the 911truth movement's views on bin Laden make a fair analog with Emmanuel Goldstein. Griffin's latest book "Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?" is all about how the War on Terror is a CIA psychological operation on the American people. In this operation, bin Laden plays the role of tangible enemy. Fake audio and video tapes are released and rumors of "bin Laden sightings" are occasionally reported to bolster public support of the "eternal" war on terror, for U.S. military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, and various foreign and domestic policies.

No they don't. They pull a concept out of context and try to hold a mirror up to 1984 and say "see, it's the same thing." No it's not, not in the least.

Get back to me when the same devices of a totalitarian government as displayed in 1984 is up and operating in the United States.

Bullshit hyperbole by these people. And Dr. Cordell.

371 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:42:32am

re: #369 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And I agree. I am confident that we have not done it for sport. We do that? Game changer.

Oh, and Doc. We obviously have different definitions of what constitutes torture.

372 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:42:49am

re: #366 Liberal Classic

While I don't consider myself to be a literary expert on the writings of George Orwell, I the 911truth movement's views on bin Laden make a fair analog with Emmanuel Goldstein. Griffin's latest book "Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?" is all about how the War on Terror is a CIA psychological operation on the American people. In this operation, bin Laden plays the role of tangible enemy. Fake audio and video tapes are released and rumors of "bin Laden sightings" are occasionally reported to bolster public support of the "eternal" war on terror, for U.S. military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, and various foreign and domestic policies.

This post makes me feel like I'm reading Democratic Underground.

373 Silvergirl  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:42:53am

re: #328 lawhawk

She has the same kind of entitlement attitude as her dad - she claims that Medicaid didn't take care of her when she was pregnant, so she went to Norway - where she pays even higher taxes but claims she gets more for it.

Interesting. I hadn't watched the video--just read the article. Yeah, one mixed-up woman.

374 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:43:10am

re: #358 Mad Al-Jaffee

Salma Hayek is my worst fear. Especially if she's wearing a bikini.

Yoko One with a microphone is sheer terror to me.

375 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:43:50am

re: #366 Liberal Classic

While I don't consider myself to be a literary expert on the writings of George Orwell, I the 911truth movement's views on bin Laden make a fair analog with Emmanuel Goldstein. Griffin's latest book "Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?" is all about how the War on Terror is a CIA psychological operation on the American people. In this operation, bin Laden plays the role of tangible enemy. Fake audio and video tapes are released and rumors of "bin Laden sightings" are occasionally reported to bolster public support of the "eternal" war on terror, for U.S. military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, and various foreign and domestic policies.

And... even if you swallow this line of thinking, please notice that bin Laden does not strike FEAR into many people currently.

If that's the governments secret plan, it isn't working is it?

376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:43:52am

re: #374 NJDhockeyfan

Thanks.

377 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:45:00am

re: #368 lawhawk

Compete with the private insurers? On an even footing - meaning that the government option has the same footing as the private insurers, can't run deficits that get bailed out by the government unlike insurers that have to raise premiums to cover their costs, and that the policies provide similar/identical coverages?

If the government insurer can run deficits and has to impose various penalties for compliance - like penalties if you do not seek to obtain insurance, is that fair to the private insurer? The private insurer can't force anyone to join, but that's central to the government's proposals.

My "best option" is a little different than the proposals that are currently on the table...

378 gymmom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:45:27am

re: #341 MandyManners

George Clooney sends me screaming through the streets.

Having Colin Firth act out his part as Mr. Darcy while I play the role of Elizabeth would scare me into telling any seekrit!

379 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:45:51am

re: #353 Mad Al-Jaffee

The Black Eyed Peas?

She's freaky.

380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:45:59am

OT... had to get new tires yesterday. Only got 30K out of the last set.

Goodyear and Sears partnered to make me happy.

Boy, did they make me happy. 800.00 set of tires cost me 215.00,'

BOY GEE BOB HOWDY AM I HAPPY!

381 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:46:13am

re: #376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks.

My pleasure.

382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:46:46am

re: #381 NJDhockeyfan

My pleasure.

buzz-kill

383 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:47:16am

re: #378 gymmom

Having Colin Firth act out his part as Mr. Darcy while I play the role of Elizabeth would scare me into telling any seekrit!

But, only if he's stripped off his shirt to swim in his lake.


*swoon*

384 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:47:19am

re: #380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OT... had to get new tires yesterday. Only got 30K out of the last set.

Goodyear and Sears partnered to make me happy.

Boy, did they make me happy. 800.00 set of tires cost me 215.00,'

BOY GEE BOB HOWDY AM I HAPPY!

Employee discount, no?

385 Liberal Classic  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:47:22am

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

I'm sorry, I thought you were agreeing with Griffin.

Wait, you thought I was a truther? :(

386 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:47:45am

re: #374 NJDhockeyfan

Yoko One with a microphone is sheer terror to me.

There's an easy fix to that. It's called "wire-clippers".

387 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:47:58am

re: #377 ShaunP

But your best (or my best) option isn't the one that will be discussed, let alone voted upon in Congress. So we're stuck with discussing the options that the WH and Congress are proposing and working with.

388 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:48:00am

re: #384 Cannadian Club Akbar

That helped by $30.00. The rest was customer satisfaction.

389 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:48:58am

re: #382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

buzz-kill

Talk about buzz-kill, I have the Two Virgins album. Good thing the album cover has a sleeve.

390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:49:06am

re: #384 Cannadian Club Akbar

Goodyear knocked 70% off of the tires, Sears knocked 70% off the labor.

Blew me away.

391 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:49:08am

re: #386 MrSilverDragon

There's an easy fix to that. It's called "wire-clippers".

Or you could dig out your ear drums with a cocktail fork. Just sayin'.

392 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:49:49am

re: #390 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Goodyear knocked 70% off of the tires, Sears knocked 70% off the labor.

Blew me away.

Cool.

393 Liberal Classic  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:49:59am

re: #379 MandyManners

LOL @ guys drifting in a front wheel drive car.

394 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:50:18am

re: #385 Liberal Classic

Wait, you thought I was a truther? :(

I thought you were highlighting what Griffin said because you saw some truth in it. Other than you comment, I don't know Griffin or even ever heard of him. I was simply bouncing off the 1984 reference.

I already said I was sorry for mistaking your post with any approval on your part for Griffins thoughts.

Again, I'm sorry (I don't know how clearer I can be).

395 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:50:27am

re: #363 Walter L. Newton

You know nothing about the word totalitarian. Stop looking silly.

Did I SAY we were totalitarian? No. I said it doesn't matter to the guy being tortured.

396 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:50:41am

William Shatner to the rescue!

My brother did the hotel reservations for my trip to Cleveland. Got a room for a Friday night in a hotel (resort hotel next to a golf course) about 10 miles east of where we were going. Easy access to I-90 as well. Place had a nice pool, hot tub, and a sauna.

Listed price in the hotel room was $200/night. Expedia special rate was $100/night. My brother got the room for $45 via Priceline.

He's gotten good at that since he often has to travel around New York and southern Ontario getting hotels for a single night as my niece plays ice hockey on a travel team in two different leagues.

397 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:51:00am

re: #379 MandyManners

Bonus points for Miserlou.

398 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:51:26am

re: #391 Cannadian Club Akbar

Or you could dig out your ear drums with a cocktail fork. Just sayin'.

But how will I be able to enjoy my Michael Bolton collection?... oh, wait.

399 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:51:32am

re: #389 NJDhockeyfan

Send it to Gitmo.

400 gymmom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:52:13am

re: #396 oaktree

William Shatner to the rescue!

My brother did the hotel reservations for my trip to Cleveland. Got a room for a Friday night in a hotel (resort hotel next to a golf course) about 10 miles east of where we were going. Easy access to I-90 as well. Place had a nice pool, hot tub, and a sauna.

Listed price in the hotel room was $200/night. Expedia special rate was $100/night. My brother got the room for $45 via Priceline.

He's gotten good at that since he often has to travel around New York and southern Ontario getting hotels for a single night as my niece plays ice hockey on a travel team in two different leagues.

I live on the east side of Cleveland. You visited when we had the nicest weather we've had since Thanksgiving or before! The sun was shining! I still can't see grass though.

401 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:53:12am

re: #399 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Send it to Gitmo.

So let me ask you to clarify your position if you could. I stated that we have tortured men who were no doubt guilty terrorists. But that we have, beyond a doubt, tortured men who were completely innocent.

But because we tortured them with the intention of protecting America, rather than for fun, that makes it morally acceptable to you?

402 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:53:14am

re: #399 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Send it to Gitmo.

Oustanding idea! I'm sure drcordell will protest since that record is pure torture to anyone.

403 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:53:17am

California may soon place animal abusers on the same level as sex offenders by listing them in an online registry, complete with their home addresses and places of employment.

The proposal, made in a bill introduced Friday by the State Senate’s majority leader, Dean Florez, would be the first of its kind in the country and is just the latest law geared toward animal rights in a state that has recently given new protections to chickens, pigs and cattle.

Mr. Florez, a Democrat who is chairman of the Food and Agriculture Committee, said the law would provide information for those who “have animals and want to take care of them,” a broad contingent in California, with its large farming interests and millions of pet owners. Animal protection is also, he said, a rare bipartisan issue in the state, which has suffered bitter partisan finger-pointing in the wake of protracted budget woes.

SNIP

Under Mr. Florez’s bill, any person convicted of a felony involving animal cruelty would have to register with the police and provide a range of personal information and a current photograph. That information would be posted online, along with information on the person’s offense.

The bill was drafted with help from the Animal Legal Defense Fund, an animal-protection group based in Cotati, Calif., north of San Francisco. The group has promoted the registry not only as a way to notify the public but also as a possible early warning system for other crimes.

“We know there’s a link between those who abuse animals and those who perform other forms of violence,” said Stephan Otto, the group’s director of legislative affairs. “Presumably if we’re able to track animal abusers and be able to know where they live, there will be less opportunity where those vulnerable to them would be near them.”

SNIP

404 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:53:56am

re: #401 drcordell

So let me ask you to clarify your position if you could. I stated that we have tortured men who were no doubt guilty terrorists. But that we have, beyond a doubt, tortured men who were completely innocent.

But because we tortured them with the intention of protecting America, rather than for fun, that makes it morally acceptable to you?

Who did we torture that was innocent?

405 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:54:16am

re: #306 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have never (not once) been in the DMV office here for more than a 45 minutes. Including wait time.

Unless it is really, really busy (or you don't have the information they need) you get in and out at the local DMV in about 15 minutes and the folks who work there are as nice as can be. Plus we so things like renew our tags by mail which is the one thing Huckabee did that was awesome.

406 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:54:57am

re: #402 NJDhockeyfan

Oustanding idea! I'm sure drcordell will protest since that record is pure torture to anyone.

I'd like to get you on the record as well, if I could. All joking aside. Are you taking issue with my characterization that the U.S. has engaged in torture? Or are you taking issue with my insistence that the U.S. does not engage in torture?

407 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:55:21am

re: #395 drcordell

Did I SAY we were totalitarian? No. I said it doesn't matter to the guy being tortured.

And? That makes it like Room 101 in 1984? Really. Show me the totalitarian organization behind "our Room 101?" Show me how ""our Room 101" is supported by a system like that shown in 1984? Show me all the trappings of a totalitarian government that make "our Room 101" possible?

If you are going to use the "Room 101" from 1984 as a metaphor for some contemporary incident that you feel is the same or similar, you can't just take the concept out of the book and rip away the whole underpinnings of the novel just to make a point.

That's dishonest and hyperbole. You know that.

408 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:55:29am

re: #404 NJDhockeyfan

Who did we torture that was innocent?

Some guy named Eddie.

409 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:55:30am

re: #406 drcordell

I'd like to get you on the record as well, if I could. All joking aside. Are you taking issue with my characterization that the U.S. has engaged in torture? Or are you taking issue with my insistence that the U.S. does not engage in torture?

Define torture.

410 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:56:03am

re: #400 gymmom

Yep. And I went running back east again before the freezing rain and light snow came back in.

Stayed a night in Pittsburgh as well this past weekend. My friends there were only mildly amused by my remarks about the "glaciers" in the parking lots there. ;)

411 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:56:06am

re: #408 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Some guy named Eddie.

What, did we ask him to make us some tea or something?

412 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:56:06am
413 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:56:13am

re: #404 NJDhockeyfan

Who did we torture that was innocent?

You want their names? I can't provide all of them. But I can at least provide one. Maher Arar, a Canadian software engineer. Brutally tortured, and completely innocent.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

414 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:56:20am

re: #406 drcordell

You do have me on record. Correct?

415 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:57:26am

re: #405 webevintage

I end up in a DMV about once every six years. New photo whenever my license expires. Otherwise I do all the registration and other renewals on-line simply to cut down on the hassle.

416 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:57:41am

re: #387 lawhawk

But your best (or my best) option isn't the one that will be discussed, let alone voted upon in Congress. So we're stuck with discussing the options that the WH and Congress are proposing and working with.

Sucks, don't it? I'm having a hard time telling who is doing the greater disservice to the healthcare reform argument; Dems for putting together crap proposals or Reps for not providing real alternatives beyond the status quo...

417 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:57:44am

re: #414 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You do have me on record. Correct?

He's taking names and making a list? Are we going to be turned in to the torture police?

418 simoom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:57:57am

Some CPAC wrap-up media.

John Bircher's interviewing each other at CPAC:

A nice shot of the JBS booth:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Oathkeepers at CPAC:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Looks like they're planning another 9/12 Tea Party march on DC:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

419 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:58:35am

re: #408 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Some guy named Eddie.

He got better.


420 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:58:48am

re: #413 drcordell

You want their names? I can't provide all of them. But I can at least provide one. Maher Arar, a Canadian software engineer. Brutally tortured, and completely innocent.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The we in this part was the Syrians - via rendition. I suppose then that you oppose rendition in any form as practiced by any President at any time then since it lets us engage in torture without having our hands on it.

421 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:59:06am

re: #416 ShaunP

Sucks, don't it? I'm having a hard time telling who is doing the greater disservice to the healthcare reform argument; Dems for putting together crap proposals or Reps for not providing real alternatives beyond the status quo...

I posted a Tim Pawltney (spelled wrong) proposal upthread. From the Washington Times, I think.

422 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:59:25am

re: #401 drcordell

So let me ask you to clarify your position if you could. I stated that we have tortured men who were no doubt guilty terrorists. But that we have, beyond a doubt, tortured men who were completely innocent.

But because we tortured them with the intention of protecting America, rather than for fun, that makes it morally acceptable to you?

Is war morally acceptable to you?

423 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:59:36am

re: #414 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You do have me on record. Correct?

A permanent list like you get in grade school.

424 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:00:09am

re: #420 lawhawk

The we in this part was the Syrians - via rendition. I suppose then that you oppose rendition in any form as practiced by any President at any time then since it lets us engage in torture without having our hands on it.

Hehehehe... I know what comes next. LOL.

425 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:00:21am

Summary of the President's healthcare proposal:
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

Glad to see the community health care clinics are still there.

426 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:00:49am

re: #423 MandyManners

A permanent list like you get in grade school.

Mandy... will you stop interjecting... if you have nothing positive to say, don't say anything!

427 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:00:54am

re: #407 Walter L. Newton

And? That makes it like Room 101 in 1984? Really. Show me the totalitarian organization behind "our Room 101?" Show me how ""our Room 101" is supported by a system like that shown in 1984? Show me all the trappings of a totalitarian government that make "our Room 101" possible?

If you are going to use the "Room 101" from 1984 as a metaphor for some contemporary incident that you feel is the same or similar, you can't just take the concept out of the book and rip away the whole underpinnings of the novel just to make a point.

That's dishonest and hyperbole. You know that.

In 1984 the protagonist is taken to a room by Government agents where he is tortured with the one thing that he fears most. Rats.

In real life, Abu Zubaydah was taken into a prison by Government agents, where he was tortured by the one thing that he fears most. Bugs.

What other fucking parallels do you need? We created a real-life room 101, and with it we tortured suspected terrorists using their worst fears against them. What else does the analogy need? The fact that in 1984 it's a totalitarian government is irrelevant. The methods of torture are completely analogous.

428 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:00:56am

re: #417 NJDhockeyfan

He's taking names and making a list? Are we going to be turned in to the torture police?

They're coming to arrest me!


429 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:00:57am

re: #413 drcordell

It appears that we handed him over to the Syrians, who then tortured him?

Practice is being continued by the current Administration (of which I am sure you are aware).

I never supported that idea.

430 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:01:22am

re: #421 Cannadian Club Akbar

re: #172 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tim Pawlenty's Health Care plan...

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

431 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:02:06am

re: #426 Walter L. Newton

Mandy... will you stop interjecting... if you have nothing positive to say, don't say anything!

Fuck you, bitch.

432 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:02:08am

re: #420 lawhawk

I certainly do not. I think it's chicken shit.

Plus, there are forms of torture that I would never approve of.

433 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:02:20am

re: #414 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You do have me on record. Correct?

Indeed. And that's all I ask. If you're going to be a torture apologist at least acknowledge it.

434 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:02:48am

re: #413 drcordell

You want their names? I can't provide all of them. But I can at least provide one. Maher Arar, a Canadian software engineer. Brutally tortured, and completely innocent.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Whoa...the first paragraph says:

When the United States sent Maher Arar to Syria, where he was tortured for months, the deportation order stated unequivocally that Mr. Arar, a Canadian software engineer, was a member of Al Qaeda. But a few days earlier, Canadian investigators had told the F.B.I. that they had not been able to link him to the terrorist group.

We didn't torture him, the Syrians did. Get your facts straight.

435 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:03:09am

re: #427 drcordell

In 1984 the protagonist is taken to a room by Government agents where he is tortured with the one thing that he fears most. Rats.

In real life, Abu Zubaydah was taken into a prison by Government agents, where he was tortured by the one thing that he fears most. Bugs.

What other fucking parallels do you need? We created a real-life room 101, and with it we tortured suspected terrorists using their worst fears against them. What else does the analogy need? The fact that in 1984 it's a totalitarian government is irrelevant. The methods of torture are completely analogous.

It's not the same. You are comparing the actions of a democratic government with a fictional totalitarian government.

Not the same.

436 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:03:23am

re: #433 drcordell

When did I apologize?

437 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:04:34am

re: #431 MandyManners

Fuck you, bitch.

Amazing... Dr. Cordell has not clue to anything. He down dings your comment to me, when it was evident to anyone here (well, not to Mr. Cranky) that I was kidding you.

Major funny Dr. Cordell. Chill out. You're killing me. LOL.

438 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:04:38am

re: #403 MandyManners

California may soon place animal abusers on the same level as sex offenders by listing them in an online registry, complete with their home addresses and places of employment.

Is that like a state sponsored hitlist for animal rights crazies? It would be good to have a list of people not licensed to own animals, but beyond that ..... hm.

439 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:05:29am

India says it is ready for improved relations with Pakistan if it takes steps to clamp down on terrorism. The two rival nuclear powers are preparing to hold their first official talks in over a year.

During an address to parliament Monday, President Pratibha Patil expressed India's willingness to explore a meaningful relationship with Pakistan.

But the Indian President says this is only possible if Pakistan addresses the threat of terrorism seriously, and takes effective steps to prevent terrorist activities directed at India.

SNIP

440 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:05:43am

re: #429 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It appears that we handed him over to the Syrians, who then tortured him?

Practice is being continued by the current Administration (of which I am sure you are aware).

I never supported that idea.

He was "handed" off to the Syrians precisely because America is not supposed to be able to torture. But CIA operatives were either at the foreign prisons, or in direct contact with the interrogators. We "outsourced" the torture because the U.S. is not supposed to do torture people. You know, that whole "anti-torture" treaty that some liberal pussy named Reagan signed. What a fucking RINO squish.

441 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:05:59am

re: #437 Walter L. Newton

Amazing... Dr. Cordell has not clue to anything. He down dings your comment to me, when it was evident to anyone here (well, not to Mr. Cranky) that I was kidding you.

Major funny Dr. Cordell. Chill out. You're killing me. LOL.

Maybe he remembers who said that to me a while back.

442 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:06:00am

re: #427 drcordell

And I asked you a related question above, which I haven't seen and answer for...

"Is war morally acceptable to you?"

443 Liberal Classic  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:06:11am

re: #394 Walter L. Newton

I thought you were highlighting what Griffin said because you saw some truth in it. Other than you comment, I don't know Griffin or even ever heard of him. I was simply bouncing off the 1984 reference.

I already said I was sorry for mistaking your post with any approval on your part for Griffins thoughts.

Again, I'm sorry (I don't know how clearer I can be).

Hey, apology accepted and don't worry about it. I wrote about Griffin because the documentary videos gave him ample time to present his case. I've have 1984 and Animal Farm, but I haven't read any other works by Orwell. I think you're correct in saying nobody here has ever experienced totalitarianism. If there is a country today that fits that description, it's North Korea. More the horror that something like 1984 can and does exist. That having been said, I can't think of a literary figure that better characterizes the truth movement's position on bin Laden better than Goldstein. To the truthers, bin Laden is the nemesis that fuels the perpetual war.

444 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:06:41am

re: #438 MagnaniomousCoward

Is that like a state sponsored hitlist for animal rights crazies? It would be good to have a list of people not licensed to own animals, but beyond that ... hm.

I hadn't thought about that.

445 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:07:06am

re: #434 NJDhockeyfan

We didn't torture him, the Syrians did. Get your facts straight.

And how did he end up in a Syrian prison being tortured? Because we rendered him and had him flown there on a CIA Gulfstream IV. The Syrians tortured him because we sent him there to be tortured. You act like that's somehow any different.

446 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:07:12am

re: #440 drcordell

He was "handed" off to the Syrians precisely because America is not supposed to be able to torture. But CIA operatives were either at the foreign prisons, or in direct contact with the interrogators. We "outsourced" the torture because the U.S. is not supposed to do torture people. You know, that whole "anti-torture" treaty that some liberal pussy named Reagan signed. What a fucking RINO squish.

And what is Obama doing about these renditions?

447 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:07:35am

re: #442 Walter L. Newton

And I asked you a related question above, which I haven't seen and answer for...

"Is war morally acceptable to you?"

Yes war is morally acceptable. Torture is not. And don't try and tell me there isn't a difference.

448 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:07:46am

re: #438 MagnaniomousCoward

Is that like a state sponsored hitlist for animal rights crazies? It would be good to have a list of people not licensed to own animals, but beyond that ... hm.

Take my mink from my cold, dead hands.

449 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:07:55am

re: #446 Walter L. Newton

And what is Obama doing about these renditions?

Continuing them, which I continue to find morally repugnant.

450 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:08:31am

re: #438 MagnaniomousCoward

Is that like a state sponsored hitlist for animal rights crazies? It would be good to have a list of people not licensed to own animals, but beyond that ... hm.

Some people convicted of owning to many animals (think 100 cats) are not allowed to own pets if convicted in court. In Florida, at least.

451 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:09:05am

re: #445 drcordell

And how did he end up in a Syrian prison being tortured? Because we rendered him and had him flown there on a CIA Gulfstream IV. The Syrians tortured him because we sent him there to be tortured. You act like that's somehow any different.

I didn't know we had that kind of control over the Syrians. We should tell them to stop supporting Iran & Hezbollah while were at it. Why didn't we thing of that before?

452 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:09:27am

re: #450 Cannadian Club Akbar

Some people convicted of owning to many animals (think 100 cats) are not allowed to own pets if convicted in court. In Florida, at least.

If the pets are neglected or abused. Sorry, forgot to add that.

453 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:09:39am

re: #443 Liberal Classic

Hey, apology accepted and don't worry about it. I wrote about Griffin because the documentary videos gave him ample time to present his case. I've have 1984 and Animal Farm, but I haven't read any other works by Orwell. I think you're correct in saying nobody here has ever experienced totalitarianism. If there is a country today that fits that description, it's North Korea. More the horror that something like 1984 can and does exist. That having been said, I can't think of a literary figure that better characterizes the truth movement's position on bin Laden better than Goldstein. To the truthers, bin Laden is the nemesis that fuels the perpetual war.

In my opinion very vaguely, but evidently not to them. Just as I am trying to explain to Dr. Cordell, to start comparing 1984 to any contemporary governments, you have to have the whole mechanism that was behind the 1984 Party.

Otherwise, I could find frightening comparisons to almost anything in any book and make a case.

454 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:09:49am

re: #435 Walter L. Newton

It's not the same. You are comparing the actions of a democratic government with a fictional totalitarian government.

Not the same.

Funny how the fictional totalitarian government and the democratic government have the same torture methods! What a trip.

455 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:10:42am

re: #449 drcordell

Continuing them, which I continue to find morally repugnant.

You should write him a letter about that. You could probably make a difference and save some poor terrorist from more bug therapy in the future.

456 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:11:19am

re: #438 MagnaniomousCoward

"Vegetable rights and peace!"

-Neil, The Young Ones

457 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:12:12am

re: #456 Mad Al-Jaffee

"Vegetable rights and peace!"

-Neil, The Young Ones

"There's a hole in my shoe and there's water coming in."

458 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:12:12am

re: #449 drcordell

Continuing them, which I continue to find morally repugnant.

Why... why do you find that morally repugnant? He said that he is going to make sure that the other countries do not engage in torture with any of these characters who are rendered.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration will continue the Bush administration’s practice of sending terrorism suspects to third countries for detention and interrogation, but pledges to closely monitor their treatment to ensure that they are not tortured, administration officials said Monday.

You're not making any sense.

459 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:12:45am

Turkey: over 40 commanders held over coup plot

In a crackdown that would once have been unthinkable, Turkish police detained more than 40 high-ranking military commanders Monday for allegedly plotting to overthrow the Islamic-rooted government.

The sweep highlighted the ongoing struggle between the secular establishment and the Islamic-oriented government — and left many wondering if the military no longer called the shots in a nation accustomed to viewing it as the pillar of the secular state.

The jailing of several senior military officers — including members of the elite class known as "Pashas," a title of respect harking back to Ottoman times — proved, at the very least, that such officials are no longer untouchable.

"We could not even dream about things that we see happening now," Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc told CNN-Turk television Monday. "Things will get better when those who were never accountable for their deeds begin to account for them."

460 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:12:52am

re: #451 NJDhockeyfan

I didn't know we had that kind of control over the Syrians. We should tell them to stop supporting Iran & Hezbollah while were at it. Why didn't we thing of that before?

Did you read the complete article?

"At 4 a.m. the next day, Mr. Arar was bundled aboard a Gulfstream jet that flew him to Jordan, from which he was driven to a prison in neighboring Syria."

You think he somehow got from JFK airport INS detention to a Syrian prison by accident?

461 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:14:05am

re: #449 drcordell

Honesty/Consistency ding.

462 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:15:02am

re: #409 NJDhockeyfan

Define torture.

Anything that you would consider torture if done to you or your family.

463 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:15:04am

re: #461 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Honesty/Consistency ding.

But Obama is not continuing renditions that lead to torture. Where's Dr. Cordells consistency? See myre: #458 Walter L. Newton

464 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:15:05am

re: #460 drcordell

Did you read the complete article?

"At 4 a.m. the next day, Mr. Arar was bundled aboard a Gulfstream jet that flew him to Jordan, from which he was driven to a prison in neighboring Syria."

You think he somehow got from JFK airport INS detention to a Syrian prison by accident?

So who did we give the torture orders to, the Syrians or the Jordanians?

465 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:15:11am

Good morning, all! My, what a lively morning it looks to be, too!

466 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:16:15am

re: #462 Cato the Elder

Anything that you would consider torture if done to you or your family.

I put bugs in my sisters bed one time. Does that free me from being labeled a torturer if I support the bug thing?

467 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:16:38am

re: #463 Walter L. Newton

He's not?

468 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:16:39am

re: #458 Walter L. Newton

Why... why do you find that morally repugnant? He said that he is going to make sure that the other countries do not engage in torture with any of these characters who are rendered.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration will continue the Bush administration’s practice of sending terrorism suspects to third countries for detention and interrogation, but pledges to closely monitor their treatment to ensure that they are not tortured, administration officials said Monday.

You're not making any sense.

I am making perfect sense. What is the point of rendering suspects and turning them over to a foreign government for interrogation if they are going to treat them exactly how we would have? It makes no sense.

There are two plausible explanations for this in my mind. One, is that Obama felt political pressure to keep the renditions program because he didn't want to open himself up to GOP "weak on terror" political attacks. So he says we are ending torture, but not ending the renditions program. He gets to cover himself from both the right and the left.

The other explanation is that yes, we still are authorizing the torture of prisoners we captured at the hands of foreign governments. And that Obama simply is lying about it.

What the truth is, I don't know. And unfortunately I doubt that we'll find out any time soon.

469 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:17:13am

Iran’s police chief has accused the BBC of being an arm of MI6 and warned of severe punishment for any Iranians in contact with the organisation.

General Ismail Ahmadi Moghaddam, whose police forces have played a key role in the government crackdown on protesters since the disputed presidential election last June, was quoted by the IRNA news agency as saying that opposition activists had co-operated with the BBC and the Voice of America (VOA) “with the aim of weakening and overthrowing the system”.

“The BBC is the arm of MI6, and VOA belongs to the CIA,” he said. “Those who co-operate with foreign services through transmitting photos, reports, news and anti-revolutionary actions . . . should know that all their actions are monitored. We will settle accounts with them when the time comes.”

Hugo's paranoia is rocketing, and so is ShortShit's.

470 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:17:52am

re: #466 NJDhockeyfan

I put bugs in my sisters bed one time. Does that free me from being labeled a torturer if I support the bug thing?

As a kid, my friends sister was afraid of roaches. We would put a plastic one in front of her bedroom door. She'd open the door, scream, then slam it. Kept her at bay for the night. Not kidding.

472 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:18:52am

re: #465 SasyMomaCat

Good morning, all! My, what a lively morning it looks to be, too!

Morning. It's always lively when the good Doctor is around.

473 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:19:02am

re: #468 drcordell

I am making perfect sense. What is the point of rendering suspects and turning them over to a foreign government for interrogation if they are going to treat them exactly how we would have? It makes no sense.

There are two plausible explanations for this in my mind. One, is that Obama felt political pressure to keep the renditions program because he didn't want to open himself up to GOP "weak on terror" political attacks. So he says we are ending torture, but not ending the renditions program. He gets to cover himself from both the right and the left.

The other explanation is that yes, we still are authorizing the torture of prisoners we captured at the hands of foreign governments. And that Obama simply is lying about it.

What the truth is, I don't know. And unfortunately I doubt that we'll find out any time soon.

You have any problem with a rendition program that forgoes torture?

474 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:19:30am

re: #465 SasyMomaCat

Good morning, all! My, what a lively morning it looks to be, too!

Can I have your kimchi?

475 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:19:43am

re: #464 NJDhockeyfan

So who did we give the torture orders to, the Syrians or the Jordanians?

I don't know, I'm not the right person to ask. But let me explain to you why he went from Jordan to Syria. We flew him to Jordan because it would be just a wee bit suspicious that a U.S. registered Gulfstream would file a flight plan that takes it directly to Syria. You know, the whole state-sponsor of terror thing doesn't look too good. So that's why the jet landed in Jordan, and he was driven to Syria. Got it?

476 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:19:47am

re: #472 thedopefishlives

Ya, true - I've not typically been around at the same time, but don't think I would like to engage him, all the same.

477 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:20:18am

re: #474 MandyManners

Sure, have at it - a co-worker brought in chocolate cake this a.m., so I'm good . . .

478 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:20:19am

re: #476 SasyMomaCat

Ya, true - I've not typically been around at the same time, but don't think I would like to engage him, all the same.

Got yer GAZE on?

479 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:20:37am

re: #475 drcordell

I don't know, I'm not the right person to ask. But let me explain to you why he went from Jordan to Syria. We flew him to Jordan because it would be just a wee bit suspicious that a U.S. registered Gulfstream would file a flight plan that takes it directly to Syria. You know, the whole state-sponsor of terror thing doesn't look too good. So that's why the jet landed in Jordan, and he was driven to Syria. Got it?

Didn't Ms America go directly to Syria?

480 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:20:48am

re: #473 Walter L. Newton

You have any problem with a rendition program that forgoes torture?

I don't understand the need for rendition if it forgoes torture. And I still don't like it.

In for a penny? In for a pound.

481 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:20:50am

re: #477 SasyMomaCat

Sure, have at it - a co-worker brought in chocolate cake this a.m., so I'm good . . .

No chocolate cake in North Korea.

482 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:20:53am

re: #476 SasyMomaCat

Ya, true - I've not typically been around at the same time, but don't think I would like to engage him, all the same.

You know, I've mentioned this before, but sometimes you just get in the mood to play whack-a-troll for a while. It's a good stress reliever, as long as you keep your blood pressure down.

483 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:21:09am

re: #479 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't Ms America go directly to Syria?

Wait. A difference. My bad.

484 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:21:10am

re: #478 MandyManners

You betcha! GAZE engaged as soon as I saw the conversation heating up.

485 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:21:44am

re: #473 Walter L. Newton

You have any problem with a rendition program that forgoes torture?

I just don't see the point? What is the advantage to turning our detained prisoners over to a foreign intelligence service, when we are not authorizing them to interrogate them in any ways that differ from our techniques? The entire purpose of the Bush rendition program was to allow treatment of prisoners that was illegal under U.S. law. If we are promising the 3rd parties will follow U.S. law, why are we handing them over in the first place?

486 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:21:53am

re: #475 drcordell

I don't know, I'm not the right person to ask. But let me explain to you why he went from Jordan to Syria. We flew him to Jordan because it would be just a wee bit suspicious that a U.S. registered Gulfstream would file a flight plan that takes it directly to Syria. You know, the whole state-sponsor of terror thing doesn't look too good. So that's why the jet landed in Jordan, and he was driven to Syria. Got it?

WOW...It was a conspiracy to torture this guy? Do you have proof?

487 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:22:08am

re: #481 MandyManners

True, that . . . seems we're just like them, eh?

488 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:22:32am

re: #485 drcordell

What if said detainee was wanted in another country?

489 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:22:35am

re: #480 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't understand the need for rendition if it forgoes torture. And I still don't like it.

In for a penny? In for a pound.

Clear this up for me... your opinion, no torture, no rendition, of any kind, right?

490 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:23:08am
491 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:23:34am

re: #482 thedopefishlives

I can see that - I just don't like getting into debates with folks that, at least from what I have seen, tend to be purposefully unpleasant and offensive. Especially when the topic is actually one of substantive importance.

492 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:23:42am

re: #486 NJDhockeyfan

WOW...It was a conspiracy to torture this guy? Do you have proof?

If you can't keep up with the conversation I'm just going to ignore you. Nobody is debating any of the facts stated in that article. It's a question of whether or not what happened was ethically and morally justifiable.

Some here seem to think it was, I for one do not. Either defend it on moral grounds, or don't. That's your choice. But stop acting like there is an actual debate surrounding the facts, cause there aint.

493 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:23:45am

re: #487 SasyMomaCat

True, that . . . seems we're just like them, eh?

I love it when people get the joke!

494 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:24:27am

re: #491 SasyMomaCat

I can see that - I just don't like getting into debates with folks that, at least from what I have seen, tend to be purposefully unpleasant and offensive. Especially when the topic is actually one of substantive importance.

Oh no, I totally agree with you. I subscribe to the old adage, "Never argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

495 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:24:52am

re: #493 MandyManners

:-) I'm slow, but I get there eventually

496 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:25:36am

re: #494 thedopefishlives

It's like mud wrestling with a pig. You just get tired, dirty, and frustrated and the pig enjoys it! ;)

497 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:25:45am

re: #492 drcordell

If you can't keep up with the conversation I'm just going to ignore you. Nobody is debating any of the facts stated in that article. It's a question of whether or not what happened was ethically and morally justifiable.

Some here seem to think it was, I for one do not. Either defend it on moral grounds, or don't. That's your choice. But stop acting like there is an actual debate surrounding the facts, cause there aint.

Does everyone here believe the US government decided to send some guy to Syria via Jordan for the sole purpose of torturing him?

498 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:25:46am

re: #485 drcordell

I just don't see the point? What is the advantage to turning our detained prisoners over to a foreign intelligence service, when we are not authorizing them to interrogate them in any ways that differ from our techniques? The entire purpose of the Bush rendition program was to allow treatment of prisoners that was illegal under U.S. law. If we are promising the 3rd parties will follow U.S. law, why are we handing them over in the first place?

Interrogators who understand the nuance of the culture that the prisoner comes from. Interrogators who better understand the religious aspects of what motivates that prisoner. Better access to families and friends who may have some influence on the prisoner, and a fear that the "crime" that they may have committed has a much more drastic punishment than what our laws met out.

A lot of good, non torture based reasons.

499 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:26:20am

re: #469 MandyManners

Iran’s police chief has accused the BBC of being an arm of MI6 and warned of severe punishment for any Iranians in contact with the organisation.

Hugo's paranoia is rocketing, and so is ShortShit's.

apropos that Scientology thing upthread:
BBC - Investigating Scientology

I'm now dealing with a situation in which the Church of Scientology has released a video to all MPs and peers accusing Panorama, of staging a demonstration outside one of their offices in London and making a death threat - or as they call it, a terrorist death threat - against Scientologists. The BBC, accused of terrorism.

The BBC: Terroists from the MI6
/snort

500 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:27:18am

re: #489 Walter L. Newton

Hell no! Not what I am saying at all!

Personal example. I became a vegetarian because I didn't want to kill anything. But was slapped with the notion that if I pay someone to kill for me, I (by default) am killing something.

What I am saying is... Define what we can do, and then do it.

Sending them to someone else is loopholery tomfoolery. And, I think it is cowardly.

501 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:27:45am

re: #498 Walter L. Newton

Example: Scare with Jews. Scare with lightly clad women. ?

502 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:28:15am

Lawmakers can be pesky obstacles for even the most democratic leaders, as the European Parliament proved earlier this month. Defying the combined pressure of the Obama Administration and top European leaders, Parliament members torpedoed a proposal that would have given the U.S. access to Europeans' banking details — seen by the U.S. as a vital counter-terrorism tool — on the grounds that it invaded people's privacy.

The vote has sparked the usual questions about whether there is a fundamental cultural divide between the U.S. and Europe over balancing security concerns with civil liberties. But the real significance may be simply institutional: the European Parliament, freshly endowed with new lawmaking powers following the passage of the Lisbon Treaty last year, is flexing its muscles as an emerging player in European politics. Suddenly, the legislative body has a semblance of real power —something it never really had before.


Don't call us the next time you need your nuts pulled from the fire, Europe.

503 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:29:07am

re: #499 MagnaniomousCoward

The BBC: Terroists from the MI6
/snort

Is Scientology still banned in Germany?

504 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:29:15am

re: #497 NJDhockeyfan

No. Therefore we sent him there for information, the by-product was torture. And still wrong, IMO.

505 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:29:29am

re: #498 Walter L. Newton

Interrogators who understand the nuance of the culture that the prisoner comes from. Interrogators who better understand the religious aspects of what motivates that prisoner. Better access to families and friends who may have some influence on the prisoner, and a fear that the "crime" that they may have committed has a much more drastic punishment than what our laws met out.

A lot of good, non torture based reasons.

Those are certainly rational reasons to consider rendering someone, without torture being used. Not sure if I entirely believe that transferring the prisoner is necessary to achieve those goals, if we are cooperating with the intelligence services of those nations. But, I see your point.

506 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:29:34am

re: #501 MagnaniomousCoward

Example: Scare with Jews. Scare with lightly clad women. ?

2 birds with one stone!

507 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:29:47am
508 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:30:08am

re: #503 MandyManners

Is Scientology still banned in Germany?

It was not banned. Germany considers it a potential threat, so it is kept under surveillance just like neo-Nazis and jihadis are.

509 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:31:24am

re: #506 Mad Al-Jaffee

2 birds with one stone!

Those aren't real. Are they?

510 simoom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:31:36am

re: #446 Walter L. Newton

And what is Obama doing about these renditions?

One of Obama's first acts was to pass an executive order titled "Ensuring Lawful Interrogations":
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

It addressed a number of aspects of detainee detention and treatment including outlawing extraordinary rendition (rendition for the purpose of torture-by-proxy) and established a Special Task Force where one part of its mission was as follows:

(ii) to study and evaluate the practices of transferring individuals to other nations in order to ensure that such practices comply with the domestic laws, international obligations, and policies of the United States and do not result in the transfer of individuals to other nations to face torture or otherwise for the purpose, or with the effect, of undermining or circumventing the commitments or obligations of the United States to ensure the humane treatment of individuals in its custody or control.

It also ordered CIA secret black sites closed:

(a) CIA Detention. The CIA shall close as expeditiously as possible any detention facilities that it currently operates and shall not operate any such detention facility in the future.
511 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:31:41am

re: #507 Killgore Trout

Praise for terrorism: Stack's Daughter: My Dad Was A Hero For Standing Up To The Man (VIDEO)

Just another entitled asshole.

512 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:31:48am

re: #509 MandyManners

Those aren't real. Are they?

I don't know, but I'd like to find out.

513 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:31:52am

re: #509 MandyManners

Those aren't real. Are they?

Who cares?

514 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:32:00am

re: #497 NJDhockeyfan

Does everyone here believe the US government decided to send some guy to Syria via Jordan for the sole purpose of torturing him?

I'm not trying to allege that we did it for fun. I have no doubt that anything done to Mr. Arar was done in the name of national security. We didn't send him to Syria to be tortured for no reason. We sent him to Syria to get information out of him, knowing that full well Syria engages in torture during interrogations. But at the end of the day that doesn't change the fact that we still were party to the torture of an innocent man.

515 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:32:09am

Okay - way off topic here (if that's possible for an open thread) - what is the name for the sweet pancake-like bread made from cornmeal?

516 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:32:16am

re: #508 MagnaniomousCoward

It was not banned. Germany considers it a potential threat, so it is kept under surveillance just like neo-Nazis and jihadis are.

Oh, I thought it was banned.

I bet they don't like being equated with Nazis and jihadis.

517 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:32:42am

re: #515 SasyMomaCat

Okay - way off topic here (if that's possible for an open thread) - what is the name for the sweet pancake-like bread made from cornmeal?

Johnny cake?

518 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:32:50am

re: #509 MandyManners

Of course they're real. (paid for in cash too)...

519 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:33:12am

re: #511 MandyManners

With her way of thinking, it's good to have one less of that mindset in the U.S.

520 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:33:24am

re: #507 Killgore Trout

Praise for terrorism: Stack's Daughter: My Dad Was A Hero For Standing Up To The Man (VIDEO)

The stuff about Norway is pretty telling. Norway is a notoriously socialist economy. IIRC, the have the largest oil reserves in Europe which pays for all kinds of government services.

521 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:33:25am

re: #515 SasyMomaCat

Okay - way off topic here (if that's possible for an open thread) - what is the name for the sweet pancake-like bread made from cornmeal?

I know of what you speak. Can't remember the name.

522 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:33:33am

re: #512 Mad Al-Jaffee

I don't know, but I'd like to find out.

What a whacky guy!

523 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:33:38am

re: #505 drcordell

Those are certainly rational reasons to consider rendering someone, without torture being used. Not sure if I entirely believe that transferring the prisoner is necessary to achieve those goals, if we are cooperating with the intelligence services of those nations. But, I see your point.

Wow... an agreement.

But, I will have to be honest with you, I was simply answering your question with some possible scenarios.

I have no problem with rendition, for a matter of fact, I think just the idea of it is enough to make a terrorist think twice about whether they want to cooperate or not.

524 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:33:39am

re: #509 MandyManners

Those aren't real. Are they?

That would take some investigating. I volunteer.

525 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:33:54am

re: #506 Mad Al-Jaffee

2 birds with one stone!

Funny. She doesn't look Jewish.

526 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:33:56am

re: #513 Cannadian Club Akbar

Who cares?

Nipples lose sensation after enhancement.

527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:34:16am

re: #522 MandyManners

What a whacky guy!

WHACK!

528 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:34:29am

re: #526 MandyManners

Nipples lose sensation after enhancement.

My nipples don't.:)

529 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:34:46am

re: #517 drcordell

That may be it . . . someone at work was asking and all I new was cornmeal pancakes, but she said it was something else. I'll bet you're right. When she gets back in I'll run that by her.

530 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:34:50am

re: #515 SasyMomaCat

Okay - way off topic here (if that's possible for an open thread) - what is the name for the sweet pancake-like bread made from cornmeal?

Something that Yankees eat?

531 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:35:04am

re: #515 SasyMomaCat

Okay - way off topic here (if that's possible for an open thread) - what is the name for the sweet pancake-like bread made from cornmeal?

Ho cakes?

532 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:35:06am

re: #510 simoom

re: #526 MandyManners

Nipples lose sensation after enhancement.

And quite frankly, have you felt a set of falsies? I found them to be completely unsatisfying to touch. Way too hard.

533 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:36:14am

re: #528 Cannadian Club Akbar

My nipples don't.:)

My girlfriend says, "Why don't you ever talk to me after sex?".
I says, "Because I was through."

-(don't hate me was quoting) Andrew Dice Clay

534 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:36:31am

re: #530 MandyManners

That could be true - as a GRITS, that would explain my ignorance.

535 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:36:45am

re: #532 drcordell

I've never touched a set.

sigh.

536 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:36:47am

re: #531 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'll run that by her, too . . .

537 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:37:27am

re: #507 Killgore Trout

Cognitive dissonance alert. Her dad murdered an IRS worker and hoped to kill and wound so many more. And for that she's considering him a hero because he stood up to the IRS? What about his personal responsibility for his own actions and inability to run a business, report income correctly, and otherwise engage in shady business dealings that resulted in CA shutting down his business. Or the IRS audits?

That's all somehow the IRS fault? And she's got her own issues with the government too - and she moved to Norway where they pay more taxes, but she thinks she gets more in return. Oy.

538 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:37:48am

re: #520 Killgore Trout

The stuff about Norway is pretty telling. Norway is a notoriously socialist economy. IIRC, the have the largest oil reserves in Europe which pays for all kinds of government services.

We have a welfare state, but thank goodness for the capitalism which FUNDS that welfare state. The petroleum fund is mostly there to pay for future pension and welfare burdens.

Going to read the article now.

539 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:38:37am

re: #520 Killgore Trout

And when the oil runs out - they're screwed.

540 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:39:12am

re: #535 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've never touched a set.

sigh.

Get thee to Montreal post haste!

541 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:39:54am

Imagine your family's finances if you spent and borrowed like Washington: you'd owe $60 in credit-card loans for every $100 of income. Every month you'd pay back a little but borrow even more. In 10 years, you'd owe $87 for every $100 you made. At some point you'd hand off the debt to your kids. If they worked until 2035, they'd owe more than $180 for every $100 they earned. In 2050, your grandkids would owe more than $320. By 2080 they'd owe seven times their earnings. Of course, lenders would cut them off well before then, and your family would be ruined. But this is the path your government is on right now.

Today, our country faces a fiscal meltdown—and Washington's continued cowardice is a big part of the problem. The social-insurance strategies of the 20th century—Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security—are driving our federal government and economy to collapse. It's long been obvious that we're ill prepared for the retirement of the baby boomers. Now, the recession and Washington's recent spending spree have accelerated the day of reckoning.

SNIP

542 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:39:59am

re: #530 MandyManners

Speaking of Yankee food...

At the memorial service on Saturday there was a luncheon afterwards. It included the serving of coffee, punch, and a liquid that we debated what it actually was. Some initially thought it was apple juice (by color) while my brother declared it was tea (by smell). Taste didn't really indicate either...

Final conclusion was that it was some sort of pre-packaged lemon flavored ice tea (probably Lipton brand). Under sweetened for what it was as well.

The Lincoln quote, "If this is tea, please bring me some coffee. If this is coffee, please bring me some tea." came to mind and was para-phrased in the conversation.

543 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:40:06am

re: #540 drcordell

Get thee to Montreal post haste!

This statement is true. And if you have no passport, Clearwater, Fl.

544 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:40:17am

Riots over Israeli heritage sites in the West Bank

Israeli soldiers have clashed with protesters in the West Bank town of Hebron after two disputed shrines were listed as Israeli heritage sites.

Palestinian protesters threw bottles and stones at soldiers who responded with tear gas and stun grenades.

The protesters say the move to list the shrines as heritage sites would restrict Muslims access to them, but this has been denied.

The shrines are important burial grounds for both Jews and Muslims.

The rioting was the most serious unrest in the area for months, the Associated Press reported.

545 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:40:35am

From the just released OPR report on John Yoo. The man who was effectively the architect of the Bush-era torture program. Honestly you can't make this stuff up.

Pressed on his views in an interview with OPR investigators, Yoo was asked:

"What about ordering a village of resistants to be massacred? ... Is that a power that the president could legally—"

"Yeah," Yoo replied, according to a partial transcript included in the report. "Although, let me say this: So, certainly, that would fall within the commander-in-chief's power over tactical decisions."

"To order a village of civilians to be [exterminated]?" the OPR investigator asked again.

"Sure," said Yoo.

[Link: blog.newsweek.com...]

546 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:41:39am
547 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:42:13am

re: #534 SasyMomaCat

That could be true - as a GRITS, that would explain my ignorance.

Got the T-shirt!!! In pink, even.

548 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:42:41am

re: #545 drcordell

Yoo also believes that the President has the legal authority to order the testicles of a child to be crushed in the interest of national security.

549 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:43:22am

re: #542 oaktree

Speaking of Yankee food...

At the memorial service on Saturday there was a luncheon afterwards. It included the serving of coffee, punch, and a liquid that we debated what it actually was. Some initially thought it was apple juice (by color) while my brother declared it was tea (by smell). Taste didn't really indicate either...

Final conclusion was that it was some sort of pre-packaged lemon flavored ice tea (probably Lipton brand). Under sweetened for what it was as well.

The Lincoln quote, "If this is tea, please bring me some coffee. If this is coffee, please bring me some tea." came to mind and was para-phrased in the conversation.

Do they have Casserole Brigades?

550 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:43:41am

re: #547 MandyManners

Tea isn't tea unless it is iced and sweet :)

551 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:44:10am

OT: Just wanted to throw up a thank you and this seems like a good place (at the bottom of a 500+ overnight thread) to do it.

ralphieboy,

Thank you very much for your comment the other day regarding driving:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I took a phrase from your post and made it into a commuting mantra:

...driving in traffic is not the time and place to teach people lesons [sic] about manners or how to drive, or to vent one's frustrations

I said this to myself about 20 times today and it actually seemed to help quite a bit. Thanks man.

552 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:44:11am

re: #550 SasyMomaCat

And I've read (and understood without the translations) the guide on "How to Speak Southern"

553 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:44:18am

re: #544 NJDhockeyfan

Riots over Israeli heritage sites in the West Bank

The PA needs to get a freakin' grip.

554 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:45:06am

re: #550 SasyMomaCat

Tea isn't tea unless it is iced and sweet :)

Personally, I prefer unsweetened teas. Sweet teas are far too cloying for my tastes. As for iced or not, I'm indifferent.

555 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:45:41am

re: #553 MandyManners

Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen - I would say in our lifetime, but "ever" is more likely.

556 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:45:43am

re: #550 SasyMomaCat

Tea isn't tea unless it is iced and sweet :)

I quit drinking it--and, making it--after I broke a crystal pitcher while I was making iced tea. The crystal chopped up a tendon in my foot and put me into the hospital, and then in a cast for a summer.

557 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:46:12am

re: #544 NJDhockeyfan

Ah, the Cave of Machpellah in Hebron. Tomb of the Patriarchs. It's the burial place of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Joseph. Rachel's Tomb is also listed (in Bethlehem). I'd been to both, though getting to both is pretty much impossible these days for Israelis under the current legal situation.

The Muslims have tried for decades to deny the Jewish ties to both.

This is more of the same and Israel is hoping that the Palestinians provide the same kind of religious freedom for Jews to pray at those sites that Israel conveys to Muslims praying at the Dome of the Rock and al Aqsa mosque at the Temple Mount, which coincidentally is Judaism's holiest space - where the Holy Temples were previously located.

558 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:46:15am

re: #551 Locker

OT: Just wanted to throw up a thank you and this seems like a good place (at the bottom of a 500+ overnight thread) to do it.

ralphieboy,

Thank you very much for your comment the other day regarding driving:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I took a phrase from your post and made it into a commuting mantra:

I said this to myself about 20 times today and it actually seemed to help quite a bit. Thanks man.

NO MAN. THIS IS MY FUCKING LANE.

559 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:46:27am

re: #537 lawhawk

From your post...

It also appears that Bell has the same kind of entitlement attitude as her father - blaming others for her own situation. She claims that Medicaid didn't take care of her when she was pregnant, so she went to Norway - where she pays even higher taxes but claims she gets more for it.

I think that's really the core issue. It seems to be the family philosophy. They want all the government freebies but they don't want to pay for them. Stack wanted to have a rich man's lifestyle of flying around in expensive planes but didn't want to pay taxes on his businesses. He expected other people to pay for his lifestyle. His daughter moved to Norway where her medical care is paid for by the state from "free" oil revenue. Entitled asshaoles.

560 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:46:28am

re: #556 MandyManners

I quit drinking it--and, making it--after I broke a crystal pitcher while I was making iced tea. The crystal chopped up a tendon in my foot and put me into the hospital, and then in a cast for a summer.

And that was the tea's fault?

561 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:46:41am

re: #554 MrSilverDragon

Ah, yes, but were you raised in the South? (GRITS - Girls Raised In The South)

562 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:47:15am

Ah Paris: A Hezbollah rally in front of the Louvre Museum

Is Europe past the point of no return?

I filmed this while on my trip to Paris in January 2009, but just finally got around to uploading it now. Scary stuff. This is in front of the Louvre where the Mona Lisa is.

Hezbollah flags are seen throughout the rally.

1:35 A banner proclaiming support of the Iraq resistance

2:08 You can see someone holding a photo of terrorist leader Hassan Nasrallah

2:50-3:30 - Chants in Arabic saying "We are the soldiers of Mohammad"

2:55-2:50 - Jihadi taunting the police

6:10 - The "youths" burning an Israeli flag

6:48 - Burning another Israeli flag to shouts of Allah Akbar

Watch it to the end. When they started burning flags we got out of there before the violence started, but a McDonnalds was destroyed and several cars torched later that evening.

563 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:47:21am

re: #556 MandyManners

Yowser - that had to hurt. Bummer that it gave you a negative association with sweet tea . . .

564 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:47:35am

bbl

565 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:48:16am

re: #555 SasyMomaCat

Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen - I would say in our lifetime, but "ever" is more likely.

I've been reading some stuff lately that makes me think that Abbas might be amenable but, then I remember that their charter still calls for the destruction of Israel.

566 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:48:18am

Hey... have we all figured out what crazy side Joe Stack was coming from... right, left... what?

567 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:48:53am

on HC...donk cannon fodder, while BOs popularity is tanking

Even though the course that Obama has laid out would mean devastating losses for Democrats this fall and a new depth of partisan rancor in Washington, the president has convinced himself he needs this victory in order to establish his credibility.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: [Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]

568 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:49:20am

re: #560 Cannadian Club Akbar

And that was the tea's fault?

No. It was George Bush's fault.

569 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:49:26am

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

Hey... have we all figured out what crazy side Joe Stack was coming from... right, left... what?

Didn't pay taxes? Left. Hates the gubment? Right. Hope this helps.

570 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:50:33am

re: #561 SasyMomaCat

Ah, yes, but were you raised in the South? (GRITS - Girls Raised In The South)

Well, that depends on your perspective... I've lived most of my life in Maryland, which is south of the Mason/Dixon... but some relatives who used to live in South Carolina considered me a Northerner. /shrug

571 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:50:34am

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

Hey... have we all figured out what crazy side Joe Stack was coming from... right, left... what?

general, all purpose crackpot...I don't think anybody wants to lay claim to him

572 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:50:38am

re: #568 MandyManners

No. It was George Bush's fault.

Now you're getting it!

573 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:50:53am

re: #567 albusteve

on HC...donk cannon fodder, while BOs popularity is tanking

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 22% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. That matches yesterday’s result as the lowest level of strong approval yet recorded for this President. Forty-one percent (41%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -19 (see trends).

The only day that Barack Obama’s Approval Index ratings were lower than today was last December 22. Like today, that came at a time when the President was making a strong push for his proposed health care legislation. Most voters have consistently opposed that plan.

574 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:51:20am

re: #562 NJDhockeyfan

Ah Paris: A Hezbollah rally in front of the Louvre Museum

[Video]

Those assholes would put a burqa on the Mona Lisa.

575 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:51:21am

re: #556 MandyManners

I quit drinking it--and, making it--after I broke a crystal pitcher while I was making iced tea. The crystal chopped up a tendon in my foot and put me into the hospital, and then in a cast for a summer.

I did that on a busted bottle of Mike's Hard Lemonaide in our foyer, no cast though. Safeway delivery guy accidentally dropped a bottle while we were bringing in the groceries. I have to say though, didn't stop me from drinking it and I still use Safeway delivery, just not barefoot anymore.

Still can't believe how much blood can come out of a foot wound.

576 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:51:33am

re: #568 MandyManners

No. It was George Bush's fault.

Don't vote for him in the next election. That will show him!

577 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:51:41am

re: #544 NJDhockeyfan

The shrines are important burial grounds for both Jews and Muslims.

What significance does Rachel's Tomb have for Muslims? Sir Moses Montefiore BOUGHT the site from the Ottoman rulers, who allowed him to build a small chapel over it. Would they have done that if it had any significance whatsoever to Muslims?

578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:51:42am

re: #551 Locker

I got behind an elderly driver once who was going twenty miles below the speed limit. My head almost exploded. An hour or so later I got behind Ben Sykes. Ben was still working for the company I worked for (though he was over 80), he was going 20 miles below the speed limit.

I chucked to myself and thought, "heh. Good ole' Ben." Then a revelation startled me. All the old folks out there driving slow are generally someone who, if the driver behind them knew them.... he/she would completely give the old folks a pass.

Doesn't help all of the time... but that story replays in my mind and helps me.

579 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:52:08am

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

Hey... have we all figured out what crazy side Joe Stack was coming from... right, left... what?

I think he had a spayshul place all of his own.

580 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:52:26am

re: #575 Locker

Extremities bleed more.

581 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:52:38am

re: #568 MandyManners

No. It was George Bush's fault.

And Da Jooooz!

582 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:52:46am

re: #567 albusteve

on HC...donk cannon fodder, while BOs popularity is tanking

Even though the course that Obama has laid out would mean devastating losses for Democrats this fall and a new depth of partisan rancor in Washington, the president has convinced himself he needs this victory in order to establish his credibility.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: [Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]

It's all about him, and not what's good for the nation. Fucking narcissist.

583 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:52:49am

re: #574 MandyManners

Those assholes would put a burqa on the Mona Lisa. torch the museum

FTFY.

584 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:53:08am

re: #581 Mad Al-Jaffee

And Da Joooz!

Playing in a rockin' band?

585 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:53:22am

re: #552 SasyMomaCat

"Mayonnaise... Mayonnaise a lot of people up in heah."

586 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:53:43am

re: #571 albusteve

If I had to guess at this point I'd say he might be a LaRouche type or some other obscure leftist philosophy. I think he was getting his crazy ideas from somewhere. Not sure exactly where but he probably wasn't coming up with this stuff on his own.

587 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:53:59am

re: #575 Locker

I did that on a busted bottle of Mike's Hard Lemonaide in our foyer, no cast though. Safeway delivery guy accidentally dropped a bottle while we were bringing in the groceries. I have to say though, didn't stop me from drinking it and I still use Safeway delivery, just not barefoot anymore.

Still can't believe how much blood can come out of a foot wound.

I was naked in the kitchen when I had my accident. IIRC, it was the first year Seattle had enhanced 9-1-1.

588 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:54:28am

re: #577 Alouette

She's a matriarch and they want to coopt the religiously significant sites of Jews all through Israel - rewriting history in the process.

589 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:54:36am

re: #587 MandyManners

I was naked in the kitchen when I had my accident. IIRC, it was the first year Seattle had enhanced 9-1-1.

Good thing you weren't cooking bacon.

590 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:54:41am

re: #573 NJDhockeyfan

one and done

591 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:55:27am

re: #582 MandyManners

It's all about him, and not what's good for the nation. Fucking narcissist.

If he were just interested in himself why the hell would he be fucking with healthcare reform. It's a goddamn suicide mission.

592 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:55:32am

re: #586 Killgore Trout

If I had to guess at this point I'd say he might be a LaRouche type or some other obscure leftist philosophy. I think he was getting his crazy ideas from somewhere. Not sure exactly where but he probably wasn't coming up with this stuff on his own.

Well, he ended up his "manifesto" with...

"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."

Take it for what you may.

593 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:56:13am

re: #589 Cannadian Club Akbar

Good thing you weren't cooking bacon.

*sizzle*

594 Silvergirl  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:57:15am

re: #589 Cannadian Club Akbar

Good thing you weren't cooking bacon.

You have to at least put on an apron if you're frying bacon stark naked.

595 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:57:37am

re: #594 Silvergirl

You have to at least put on an apron if you're frying bacon stark naked.

You do?

596 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:58:02am

re: #591 drcordell

If he were just interested in himself why the hell would he be fucking with healthcare reform. It's a goddamn suicide mission.

I personally think that he thought he had the votes to pass it, ending up with that feather in the cap and his name on it. IMO.

597 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:58:38am

re: #594 Silvergirl

You have to at least put on an apron if you're frying bacon stark naked.

I only need a sock. One.

598 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:59:08am

re: #594 Silvergirl

You have to at least put on an apron if you're frying bacon stark naked.

I never do. But then again, I'm foolhardy. (And also slightly grease-spattered when all is said and done.)

599 Silvergirl  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:59:11am

re: #595 MandyManners

You do?

One of those grandma type aprons--neck to hips.

600 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:59:36am

re: #591 drcordell

If he were just interested in himself why the hell would he be fucking with healthcare reform. It's a goddamn suicide mission.

Well, if he is truly a narcissist (not saying he is, just riding on the concept) then self destructing is par for the course... it comes with the condition. They never see it coming because their narcissism totally blinds them to that the possibility of failure.

You don't want to be around a narcissist when they fail.

601 Silvergirl  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:59:57am

re: #597 Cannadian Club Akbar

I only need a sock. One.

Hahaha!

Thanks! I'm off to work, so you sent me off with a smile.

602 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:00:26am

If you cook bacon in the oven, it results in a better product. Just sayin'.

603 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:00:27am

re: #589 Cannadian Club Akbar

Good thing you weren't cooking bacon.

Why do I hear that line in Paul Lynde's voice?

604 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:01:03am

re: #578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's a good one man. The "perspective shift" is always a good technique to practice. I use a similar but slightly different one for elderly folks writing checks in the grocery line instead of getting damn debit card. When I start to get heated I always think of what I would do to some prick-fuck that yelled at my Grandma in a grocery store... it's quite a deterrent.

605 simoom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:01:06am

re: #596 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm still pretty confident the dems will get it passed. The House passes the Senate bill as is, Obama signs it into law and then the Senate will be pretty much forced to do an additional bill by reconciliation to clean up Nelson's mess (among some other tweaks).

606 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:01:14am

re: #603 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why do I hear that line in Paul Lynde's voice?

Well, I didn't until now. Thanks.

607 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:01:17am

Muslim Women Protest Policies At Islamic Center

Some women who protested at the Islamic Center of Washington, wanting to be able to worship in the main prayer hall with their male counterparts, were asked to leave by the police. But they say their struggle will continue.

Carpets with intricate designs cover the floors of the main prayer hall and turquoise tiles line the walls. But the source of contention is a small room created with 7-foot-high wooden walls. Jannah B'int Hannah describes how she feels in there where she cannot see the imam, or leader of the mosque, speak.

"Boxed in, stifling, suffocating and totally a second class citizen," Hannah said.

Over the weekend, Hannah and approximately 20 other women prayed in the main hall, but D.C. police were called. They asked them to leave or be arrested.

Syed Burmi, the imam of Islamic Society of Western Maryland, said the physical separation helps maintain women's privacy and modesty as well as keeps the focus on prayer.

"If I stand next to a lady or a woman stands next to me, maybe the focus will change and no longer be on God the Almighty. So that's why we put the partition," Burmi said.

In two out of every three American mosques, women of separate prayer spaces around the country.

Asra Nomani is a leading Islamic feminist who led a similar protest in West Virginia.

"We have this generation of American muslim women who are saying look you want us to go to Harvard, to rise to the highest level of Wall Street firms and you want us to sit where in the mosque?," Nomani said.

Women activists say they will continue to try to pray in the main hall until this policy changes.

608 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:01:19am

BBIAB

609 Silvergirl  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:01:28am

re: #602 Cannadian Club Akbar

If you cook bacon in the oven, it results in a better product. Just sayin'.

Then you have no reason for the sock. Boring oven-cooked bacon.

610 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:01:47am

re: #586 Killgore Trout

If I had to guess at this point I'd say he might be a LaRouche type or some other obscure leftist philosophy. I think he was getting his crazy ideas from somewhere. Not sure exactly where but he probably wasn't coming up with this stuff on his own.

all sorts of stuff seem reasonable when fueled by anger and frustration...I think he just had a slomgoo of selfish ideas framed by his hatred of the feds...if you even think you are being jacked around by the IRS, you can get a very pissy attitude....he just reinforced his ideas by whatever stimulus was laying around...left, right didn't matter imo

611 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:02:05am

re: #587 MandyManners

I was naked in the kitchen when I had my accident. IIRC, it was the first year Seattle had enhanced 9-1-1.

Ahh Seattle. You sure it was the tea and not the fact that you were stoned out of your mind and naked in the kitchen? ;)

612 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:02:32am

re: #609 Silvergirl

Then you have no reason for the sock. Boring oven-cooked bacon.

Use the sock as a hot pad.

613 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:05:03am

re: #611 Locker

Ahh Seattle. You sure it was the tea and not the fact that you were stoned out of your mind and naked in the kitchen? ;)

Wanna' see my scar?

614 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:05:18am

D.C. Center Teaches 6th-Graders About Islam

Most American schoolchildren learn about Islam in a social studies classroom. But at the Friends School in Baltimore, sixth-graders make their own mini-pilgrimage every year, to the Islamic Center in Washington, D.C.

As their bus rattles along the highway south to Washington, most of the kids are busy making up songs about each other. But 12-year-old Julia Potter is counting off the Five Pillars of Islam on her fingers: charity, prayer, fasting, profession of faith, and the pilgrimage to Mecca.

These kids are well-versed in the basics of Islam and more: In class, they learn about Judaism, Hinduism and Christianity; about prophets, taboos and holy laws. And every year, sixth-graders visit the Islamic Center — though every year, according to teacher Deloris Jones, they get there late. "There's absolutely nothing over the years I have been able to do to keep this thing on time," Jones says.

Inside the mosque, boys sit on the left and girls on the right, the girls' heads covered with colorful scarves. Imam Abassie Jarrkoroma leads a question-and-answer session, and this separation of the sexes is one of the first topics to come up.

"The traditional way when we pray, the men would be in the front, the children in the middle and the women in the back," he tells the children. "This is not unique to Islam. It has come down through the Judaic and Christian faith."

Next on the agenda is a stop at the Saudi Arabian Embassy, where Tarik Allagany shows the kids a video about his country. They have pointed questions for Allagany: Is Islam the only religion in Saudi Arabia? And what about the role of women in Saudi society? Allagany's answers are long, eloquent and somewhat evasive.

Jones says that afterward, she and her students will talk about "what the truth possibly really is, and how he diplomatically answered the question."

But despite those issues, Jones and her colleagues will keep bringing their sixth-graders here; they say it's the next best thing to being in the Middle East.

615 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:05:41am

re: #613 MandyManners

Wanna' see my scar?

Hubba hubba!

616 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:05:53am

re: #613 MandyManners

Wanna' see my scar?

He believes you. He just added that you were probably stoned.

617 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:05:54am

re: #613 MandyManners

Wanna' see my scar?

Only if you show us a picture of what you were wearing when you got it.

618 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:07:01am

re: #606 Cannadian Club Akbar

You. Are. Welcome.

619 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:07:30am

we are just a bunch of old geezer pot heads...still groovin on Dylan and the Band...

Long a fixture among young people, use of the country's most popular illicit drug is now growing among the AARP set, as the massive generation of baby boomers who came of age in the 1960s and '70s grows older.

FREE THE WEED!

[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

620 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:08:35am

re: #614 NJDhockeyfan

Looks like a helluva teacher to me.

621 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:08:55am

re: #613 MandyManners

Wanna' see my scar?

Oh no, I'm not falling for that one again. Last time I ended up married.

622 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:09:14am

I need to get something done. BBIAB.

623 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:09:29am

re: #621 Locker

Oh no, I'm not falling for that one again. Last time I ended up married.

Ding.

624 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:10:38am

Have a great day, lizards. Now I'm going to brave the slippery slopes out there.

625 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:11:54am

re: #621 Locker

Oh no, I'm not falling for that one again. Last time I ended up married.

Part of me is tempted to share that one with the wife. Part of me also realizes that this will end with me sleeping on the couch for the next week.

626 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:13:37am

re: #591 drcordell

If he were just interested in himself why the hell would he be fucking with healthcare reform. It's a goddamn suicide mission.

Because that is the narrative and reality may not intrude on the conservative narrative.

627 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:13:46am

White House Accused of Federal Crime in Specter, Bennet Races

A bombshell has just exploded in the 2010 elections.

For the second time in five months, the Obama White House is being accused -- by Democrats -- of offering high ranking government jobs in return for political favors. What no one is reporting is that this is a violation of federal law that can lead to prison time, a fine or both, according to Title 18, Chapter 11, Section 211 of the United States Code.

The jobs in question? Secretary of the Navy and a position within the U.S. Agency for International Development.

The favor requested in return? Withdrawal from Senate challenges to two sitting United States Senators, both Democrats supported by President Obama. The Senators are Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania and Michael Bennet in Colorado.

On Friday, Pennsylvania Congressman Joe Sestak, the Democrat challenging Specter for re-nomination, launched the controversy by accusing the Obama White House of offering him a federal job in exchange for his agreeing to abandon his race against Specter.

[snip]

628 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:14:59am

Article in the New Republic about the coming Republican Freakout on Health CAre Reform:[Link: www.tnr.com...]

629 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:15:29am

A federal law taking effect Monday may alter the standard checklist for many Americans as they pack to visit their national parks: insect repellent, snacks, hiking boots . . . double-barreled shotgun.

finally...some common sense, but remember, it is still illegal to kill game or park rangers!

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

630 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:16:25am

re: #614 NJDhockeyfan

D.C. Center Teaches 6th-Graders About Islam

Dhimmification proceeds.

631 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:16:31am

re: #626 webevintage

Because that is the narrative and reality may not intrude on the conservative narrative.

what's that got to do with a pathetically bad HC bill?

632 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:17:01am

re: #629 albusteve

Will folks need to decorate their tents with orang stripes now?

633 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:17:33am

re: #621 Locker

Oh no, I'm not falling for that one again. Last time I ended up married.

Gimme' $50.00 or I'll tell your wife you said that.

634 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:18:19am

re: #464 NJDhockeyfan

So who did we give the torture orders to, the Syrians or the Jordanians?

What does it matter to you? You approve this shit.

635 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:19:27am

re: #627 NJDhockeyfan

White House Accused of Federal Crime in Specter, Bennet Races

Is that a high crime or a misdemeanor?

636 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:19:34am

re: #605 simoom

I'm still pretty confident the dems will get it passed. The House passes the Senate bill as is, Obama signs it into law and then the Senate will be pretty much forced to do an additional bill by reconciliation to clean up Nelson's mess (among some other tweaks).

The President's health care proposal was released today and that is one of the items:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I'll leave you all with that.
I'm on the way to see the endocrinologist who will once again tell me that I need to have my neck cut open and let a surgeon dig around until they find the parathyroid tumor that must be there but refuses to show up on the $2000 scan.
Oh and another blood test.

637 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:21:26am

re: #636 webevintage

Good luck!

638 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:21:48am

re: #604 Locker

Got behind a (fifty something) lady at Cracker Barrel once paying her bill. After waiting for ten minutes, she handed the bill to the cashier, then proceeded to search her purse, etc...

After her 9 minute transaction, I got up to the cashier. The lady nudged back in and handed a religious tract to the cashier. I said, "Madam? God wants you to begin to be more considerate of others."

"Do you have a tract about, 'Thou shalt not kill?'".

She moved pretty quickly after that.

639 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:21:49am

re: #636 webevintage

The President's health care proposal was released today and that is one of the items:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I'll leave you all with that.
I'm on the way to see the endocrinologist who will once again tell me that I need to have my neck cut open and let a surgeon dig around until they find the parathyroid tumor that must be there but refuses to show up on the $2000 scan.
Oh and another blood test.

what are you linking to?

640 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:22:17am

re: #636 webevintage

Wishing you much strength! I know how frustrating it is to deal with chronic and undiagnosed problems.
Keep smiling, even if you don't feel like it, it will help.

641 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:22:35am

re: #632 prairiefire

Will folks need to decorate their tents with orang stripes now?

"rest in pieces"
Duke Nukem

642 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:23:48am

re: #631 albusteve

what's that got to do with a pathetically bad HC bill?

See #582
Mandy called the President a fucking narrcisitre: #639 albusteve

what are you linking to?

Here, sorry.
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
Buh Bye till latter and thanks for the good thoughts guys.

643 Stanghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:23:59am

re: #639 albusteve

what are you linking to?

Try this one:

Comparison of proposals

644 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:26:51am

re: #638 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Got behind a (fifty something) lady at Cracker Barrel once paying her bill. After waiting for ten minutes, she handed the bill to the cashier, then proceeded to search her purse, etc...

After her 9 minute transaction, I got up to the cashier. The lady nudged back in and handed a religious tract to the cashier. I said, "Madam? God wants you to begin to be more considerate of others."

"Do you have a tract about, 'Thou shalt not kill?'".

She moved pretty quickly after that.

I wonder about those who leave religious tracts instead of tips at restaurants.

645 harrisam  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:28:14am

This article by Bert Rutan should be required reading before coming down on one side or the other in the AGW discussion.

[Link: rps3.com...]

646 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:28:34am

Morning all.

That virus rogue anti-spyware thing I was talking about at the beginning of this thread is a nasty piece of work. Spent the last two hours figuring out how to work around the damn thing so I could get it to stop with all of the alerts and popups. It has some sort of blocks on so you can't do or run any real anti-spyware program.

I left my computer overnight running so I could download a program which was supposed to get rid of it and when I woke up there were over 100 explorer windows open to mostly porno sites. I couldn't run that program so ended up having to work around the virus program itself and all of the stupid vista security crap and somehow managed to delete the the programs system startup file. So for now no alerts and it's not stopping me from doing stuff on the computer. It's still there though and from what I read I have to clean out the whole thing or else it'll redo itself and install again.

Nasty, nasty, nasty.

647 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:29:02am

re: #638 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Got behind a (fifty something) lady at Cracker Barrel once paying her bill. After waiting for ten minutes, she handed the bill to the cashier, then proceeded to search her purse, etc...
. . .

Don't you be talking badly abourt "fifty-something" ladies.
some of us manage quite well to keep up, thankyewverymuch.

648 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:29:18am

I was so sick over the weekend with an infection, I could not post my Sunday morning artwork...better late than never, here is the most beautiful creation to ever take to the streets in the history of gas engines....

Image: 1967-chevy-chevelle-ss-1.jpg

649 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:29:53am

re: #644 MandyManners

I wonder about those who leave religious tracts instead of tips at restaurants.

Leaving it instead of a tip is really bad form. I would want to strangle them if I ever caught them at it. In fact, I tip extra because I pray at the table.

650 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:30:10am

re: #638 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Now that we need on video.

I recently switched my dentist as the previous guy was like a car salesman pushing all the most expensive upgrades. Made an appointment for 8 AM and on the day of the appointment I'm driving down to the place, about 3 minutes from my house, it's 8:01 and my cell phone rings.

It's the receptionist from the dentist and this lady is actually scolding me for being late for my appointment as if I were a student in her 4th grade class. Upon entering the office for the first time I see a bible propped up on a stand right on the main receptionist counter.

I asked her if God told her to call me at one minute past eight to scold me or if she thought it up all by herself. The look on her face was completely priceless...

651 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:30:46am

re: #643 Stanley Sea

Good link - of most of the items, the one that will cause the greatest amount of grief is that all insurers will have to comply with the new regs - no grandfathering of policies, which means that if you like your policy, you'll be able to keep it has gone by the boards (and even the House and Senate versions weren't as Yglesias posts since they would have allowed for adjustments as soon as the annual benefits renewals took place - so the changes could start as soon as one year following enactment). Obama's plans are more explicit on point per Yglesias' post.

652 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:30:55am

re: #648 albusteve

Hope you are feeling better!

Funny article, no time like the present:[Link: today.msnbc.msn.com...]

653 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:31:06am

re: #644 MandyManners

This was not instead of a tip, just a little thing for the cashier, but I've heard of people who do just that.

Yeah... that's evangelism!

654 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:31:10am

more trouble with AGW....

The study, published in 2009 in Nature Geoscience, one of the top journals in its field, confirmed the conclusions of the 2007 report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). It used data over the last 22,000 years to predict that sea level would rise by between 7cm and 82cm by the end of the century.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

655 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:31:46am

re: #645 harrisam

This article by Bert Rutan should be required reading before coming down on one side or the other in the AGW discussion.

[Link: rps3.com...]

Sorry... we only accept peer-review material here. No scientist worth his note would use a non peer-reviewed article like this to prove anything.

656 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:32:25am

re: #652 prairiefire

Hope you are feeling better!

Funny article, no time like the present:[Link: today.msnbc.msn.com...]

that's one problem I never had!

657 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:32:26am

re: #614 NJDhockeyfan

D.C. Center Teaches 6th-Graders About Islam

That's so nice. Do they also visit a synagogue, a church, and Hindu and Buddhist temples? What about the Shrine of the Spaghetti Monster? That would be an exciting field trip.

658 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:32:34am

re: #647 reine.de.tout

Don't you be talking badly abourt "fifty-something" ladies.
some of us manage quite well to keep up, thankyewverymuch.

I only pointed that out so people weren't thinking I was frightening a 90 year old lady. This lady was young enough to do better.

659 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:32:55am

Heh! Alert. Iran plans two new enrichment sites located deep inside mountains. Yeah, that's for a peaceful program alright. /////

660 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:33:16am

re: #658 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I only pointed that out so people weren't thinking I was frightening a 90 year old lady. This lady was young enough to do better.

Oh, OK then.
;-)

661 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:33:31am

Iran has warned that airlines will be banned from flying into its airspace, unless they use the term "Persian Gulf" on their in-flight monitors.

The transport minister has threatened to impound planes that fail to comply.

The nation is most insistent that the stretch of water separating it from its southern neighbours should be known as the Persian Gulf.

To call it the Gulf, annoys the authorities; to call it the Arabian Gulf, infuriates them even more.

SNIP

662 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:33:33am

re: #646 Jadespring

If you want to fix it I have some suggestions but, unless you have critical and unrecoverable data on your machine it's going to be faster to just reformat the drive and reinstall your operating system.

If that's not an option then here is what you do:

1. Unplug your network cable and do not connect to the internet until you are fairly sure that the machine is cleaned up.
2. Use a clean machine to download your cleaner tools, plus the latest definitions and burn them on a CD or copy them to a flash drive.
3. Start the machine in safe mode, install your cleaners and definitions. Do all your scanning and cleaning.
4. Reconnect to the internet and see how it goes from there.

If you need a list of tools just holler, I can easily cut and paste my list of apps or maybe find the previous LGF thread relevant to this issue and post the link.

Good luck.

663 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:33:42am

re: #650 Locker

Now that we need on video.

I recently switched my dentist as the previous guy was like a car salesman pushing all the most expensive upgrades. Made an appointment for 8 AM and on the day of the appointment I'm driving down to the place, about 3 minutes from my house, it's 8:01 and my cell phone rings.

It's the receptionist from the dentist and this lady is actually scolding me for being late for my appointment as if I were a student in her 4th grade class. Upon entering the office for the first time I see a bible propped up on a stand right on the main receptionist counter.

I asked her if God told her to call me at one minute past eight to scold me or if she thought it up all by herself. The look on her face was completely priceless...

Is it common practice by you to make fun of people and their religious proclivities?

664 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:34:01am

re: #644 MandyManners

I wonder about those who leave religious tracts instead of tips at restaurants.

I'd be thinking something along the lines of (insert string of swear words that would make a sailor blush).

Granted, there are times when a big tip has its disadvantages. During my younger days when I did pizza delivery, there was one particular house that most of the drivers would dread to go... the gentleman at this residence would order a cheese pizza for 7.99, and always handed over a $20 saying "keep the change". The problem was that he would answer the door in a bathrobe that always fell open upon his answering the door.

665 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:34:26am

re: #646 Jadespring

(((Jadespring)))

Geek Squad?

666 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:34:26am

re: #657 Alouette

That's so nice. Do they also visit a synagogue, a church, and Hindu and Buddhist temples? What about the Shrine of the Spaghetti Monster? That would be an exciting field trip.

Bingo!

667 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:34:26am

re: #650 Locker

Funny. I spent about ten minutes typing out a much more detailed account of that little story. Went to preview, and (like an idiot) tried to edit something in the preview field... who thing disappeared.

Got mad at that lady all over again, (but, this was my fault, not hers.)

668 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:35:22am

re: #649 thedopefishlives

Leaving it instead of a tip is really bad form. I would want to strangle them if I ever caught them at it. In fact, I tip extra because I pray at the table.

They'd be cheap even if they were atheists.

669 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:35:40am

re: #663 Walter L. Newton

Probably just as common as it your practice of taking something out of context just to make a complaint.

670 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:35:59am

re: #646 Jadespring

Morning all.

That virus rogue anti-spyware thing I was talking about at the beginning of this thread is a nasty piece of work. Spent the last two hours figuring out how to work around the damn thing so I could get it to stop with all of the alerts and popups. It has some sort of blocks on so you can't do or run any real anti-spyware program.

I left my computer overnight running so I could download a program which was supposed to get rid of it and when I woke up there were over 100 explorer windows open to mostly porno sites. I couldn't run that program so ended up having to work around the virus program itself and all of the stupid vista security crap and somehow managed to delete the the programs system startup file. So for now no alerts and it's not stopping me from doing stuff on the computer. It's still there though and from what I read I have to clean out the whole thing or else it'll redo itself and install again.

Nasty, nasty, nasty.

Jadespring - are you using Firefox?
I had a virus like that, affected me only when I used firefox.
I switched to Safari or Chrome until I could get my yearly computer clean-up scheduled with Geek Squad.

671 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:36:05am

re: #650 Locker

Now that we need on video.

I recently switched my dentist as the previous guy was like a car salesman pushing all the most expensive upgrades. Made an appointment for 8 AM and on the day of the appointment I'm driving down to the place, about 3 minutes from my house, it's 8:01 and my cell phone rings.

It's the receptionist from the dentist and this lady is actually scolding me for being late for my appointment as if I were a student in her 4th grade class. Upon entering the office for the first time I see a bible propped up on a stand right on the main receptionist counter.

I asked her if God told her to call me at one minute past eight to scold me or if she thought it up all by herself. The look on her face was completely priceless...

why in the world world would you say such a thing?...and then do a happy dance post about it?....really pretty uncool imo

672 moonflower  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:36:14am

re: #636 webevintage

I am having a scan for parathyroid on Wed. It is pretty clear from my blood work and what not that I have this - I hope the scan shows it. Have you hear of Dr. Norman in Tampa Florida? This is all he does and he does the minimally invasive surgery. If my endo can't find this tumor and/or says I need the big surgery, I am going to fly to Tampa to get this done.

Good luck.

673 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:36:20am

re: #668 MandyManners

They'd be cheap even if they were atheists.

I know. It's just a habit I got into, because of so many commentaries showing how Sunday afternoon Christians are the worst crowd to wait upon, because they're the worst tippers. I've heard it from countless restaurant service people, and it's always galled me. I do my little bit to prove that stereotype wrong.

674 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:36:22am

re: #653 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This was not instead of a tip, just a little thing for the cashier, but I've heard of people who do just that.

Yeah... that's evangelism!

No. That's bad manners.

675 simoom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:36:24am

re: #627 NJDhockeyfan

What's odd about Sestak's claims is he says he received the job offer in July, which he says he immediately declined (he announced his Senate candidacy the following month in August). My point being it would be difficult for him to drop out of race he hadn't entered yet.

676 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:37:46am

re: #657 Alouette

That's so nice. Do they also visit a synagogue, a church, and Hindu and Buddhist temples? What about the Shrine of the Spaghetti Monster? That would be an exciting field trip.

I'd like to see them visit all of them... but a Mosque, Synagogue, Hindu, and Buddhist temples would have been visited by a lower percentage of the children (I am making assumptions)...

I have no problem with a teacher taking my child to a Mosque.

677 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:38:12am

Mali releases al-Qaeda militants


Mali has freed four militants from jail weeks after al-Qaeda's North African threatened to kill a French hostage if the men were not released.

The authorities insisted they had not given into al-Qaeda's demands, saying that the four men had served their sentences and were due to be freed.

The release has been criticised by other countries in the region.

678 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:38:25am

re: #669 Locker

Probably just as common as it your practice of taking something out of context just to make a complaint.

Bad habit on both our parts. I don't like making fun at people religious proclivities. I have no problem with anyone believing in any g-d or deity. I would never say something to a fried, what more a stranger, like what you said.

I'm an atheist, and I certainly have no problem with discussing what I think about mystical thinking. But, I try to never just degrade someone by using their belief in a g-d.

679 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:38:54am

re: #664 MrSilverDragon

I'd be thinking something along the lines of (insert string of swear words that would make a sailor blush).

Granted, there are times when a big tip has its disadvantages. During my younger days when I did pizza delivery, there was one particular house that most of the drivers would dread to go... the gentleman at this residence would order a cheese pizza for 7.99, and always handed over a $20 saying "keep the change". The problem was that he would answer the door in a bathrobe that always fell open upon his answering the door.

Deviated pizza prevert.

680 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:39:08am

re: #662 Locker

Thanks for the info. A list or links to good tools would be helpful. I want to make sure I have all of it covered. I don't what to do a recovery if possible. Although I do backup regularly I am about a week from doing the last backup.

I think from what I've been able to read this is likely a newer version of this particular rogue program. There are sites that tell you how to remove it but the file names I found so far are different. Patterned and structured the same but with different names. I was able to figure it out enough to get the durn thing to stop thank goodness.

681 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:39:54am

re: #657 Alouette

That's so nice. Do they also visit a synagogue, a church, and Hindu and Buddhist temples? What about the Shrine of the Spaghetti Monster? That would be an exciting field trip.

Not sure if they do or don't visit, but the article did say:

"These kids are well-versed in the basics of Islam and more: In class, they learn about Judaism, Hinduism and Christianity; about prophets, taboos and holy laws..."

Here's the link to the school itself...

682 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:39:54am

re: #671 albusteve

Lucky for me I don't care about your opinion nor do I care about a business which thinks it's appropriate to shove a specific religion in my face.

683 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:40:29am

re: #673 thedopefishlives

I know. It's just a habit I got into, because of so many commentaries showing how Sunday afternoon Christians are the worst crowd to wait upon, because they're the worst tippers. I've heard it from countless restaurant service people, and it's always galled me. I do my little bit to prove that stereotype wrong.

It's as if they think they're punishing people for working on a Sunday.

Well, guess what, hypocrites? STAY HOME.

684 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:40:54am

re: #645 harrisam

This article by Bert Rutan should be required reading before coming down on one side or the other in the AGW discussion.

[Link: rps3.com...]

From your link:

While this is my first publication on AGW data presentation fraud, some of my conclusions were originally presented on July 19th 2009 at the Pasadena Art Center College of Design (when I accepted their lifetime achievement award).

And why is this required reading?

685 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:41:00am

re: #682 Locker

Lucky for me I don't care about your opinion nor do I care about a business which thinks it's appropriate to shove a specific religion in my face.

How did your dentist office shove any religion in your face? Seems to me it was you who brought up g-d.

686 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:42:02am

re: #682 Locker

Lucky for me I don't care about your opinion nor do I care about a business which thinks it's appropriate to shove a specific religion in my face.

You have the right to change dentists.

Heck, I might've done just that after that phone call.

687 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:42:27am

re: #682 Locker

Lucky for me I don't care about your opinion nor do I care about a business which thinks it's appropriate to shove a specific religion in my face.

so you just inflict your bad taste on others simply because you think you are being witty and clever...having a Bible sitting around stresses you out so much you need to be rude indicates some sort of personal problem...so easily offended

688 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:42:38am

re: #685 Walter L. Newton

How did your dentist office shove any religion in your face? Seems to me it was you who brought up g-d.

There was a B-i-b-l-e in the room.

689 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:42:43am

re: #682 Locker

Lucky for me I don't care about your opinion nor do I care about a business which thinks it's appropriate to shove a specific religion in my face.

Wow... that's a really big leap from there was a bible in the receptionist off to equating that with shoving religion in your face.

690 garhighway  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:43:58am

re: #405 webevintage

Unless it is really, really busy (or you don't have the information they need) you get in and out at the local DMV in about 15 minutes and the folks who work there are as nice as can be. Plus we so things like renew our tags by mail which is the one thing Huckabee did that was awesome.

Careful there. By saying that a government agency can perform well, you are contradicting a fundamental ideological precept of many of those here.

691 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:44:08am

re: #689 Walter L. Newton

Wow... that's a really big leap from there was a bible in the receptionist off to equating that with shoving religion in your face.

this person looks to be offended...and has to literally make shit up to provide the juice

692 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:44:16am

re: #680 Jadespring

This worm is the worst.

693 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:44:46am

re: #682 Locker

Lucky for me I don't care about your opinion nor do I care about a business which thinks it's appropriate to shove a specific religion in my face.

Are you offended when you see Bibles on the shelf at book stores?

694 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:44:55am

re: #682 Locker

Lucky for me I don't care about your opinion nor do I care about a business which thinks it's appropriate to shove a specific religion in my face.

Can't take you anywhere. Do you break out in hives at libraries, shit, those places are full of all sorts of religious texts? And if I were you, I would be careful how close you walk next to someone in public. Never know when they may be carrying some sort of religious text in their pockets or handbags... wouldn't want to get any of those religious cooties.

695 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:45:17am

re: #670 reine.de.tout

Jadespring - are you using Firefox?
I had a virus like that, affected me only when I used firefox.
I switched to Safari or Chrome until I could get my yearly computer clean-up scheduled with Geek Squad.

Yep I use firefox. I think I'm okay for now because I figured out how to stop the program from starting up. I just have to get rid of all it's components so it won't reorganize itself and install again.

It's really nasty because unlike other virus that either just go in the background or mess with some program functioning this ones purpose is to scare you with 'omg your computer is under attack' and make things act like your having some sort of major system attack so you'll activate this software and send them $$$$

696 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:46:10am

It's that time of the month. You're constantly on edge, have difficulty concentrating, and wish you could just go back to bed and hide under the covers all day. Is it all in your head?

Not so long ago, that's what many doctors would have told women who were bold enough to complain about these symptoms. There was little research about problems affecting women, perhaps because researchers were mostly male. The prevailing view among scientists was that women were outliers and not useful study subjects because their biology was more complex than men's. So even doctors who wanted to help wouldn't have had the knowledge to tell their women patients why their world seemed to implode every month.

YOU GOT A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THAT? WHERE'S MY CHOCOLATE? MY BOURBON? WHERE'S MAH WEED?

697 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:46:29am

re: #694 Walter L. Newton

Can't take you anywhere. Do you break out in hives at libraries, shit, those places are full of all sorts of religious texts? And if I were you, I would be careful how close you walk next to someone in public. Never know when they may be carrying some sort of religious text in their pockets or handbags... wouldn't want to get any of those religious cooties.

He must use gloves when he handles money. It's got the G-word on it, you know.

698 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:46:32am

re: #692 Mad Al-Jaffee

This worm is the worst.

In bed.

699 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:46:58am

re: #693 NJDhockeyfan

Are you offended when you see Bibles on the shelf at book stores?

IN YOUR FACE MKF!

700 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:47:35am

re: #697 NJDhockeyfan

He must use gloves when he handles money. It's got the G-word on it, you know.

Holy Shit... Locker... be careful... put all your money down and back away... I'll be right over with a fireman to burn it...

701 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:47:40am

re: #697 NJDhockeyfan

He must use gloves when he handles money. It's got the G-word on it, you know.

It says "gophers" on our money?! RUN!!!

702 avanti  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:48:05am

re: #654 albusteve

more trouble with AGW...

The study, published in 2009 in Nature Geoscience, one of the top journals in its field, confirmed the conclusions of the 2007 report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). It used data over the last 22,000 years to predict that sea level would rise by between 7cm and 82cm by the end of the century.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Yes, it could be too low a estimate, or too high, but no question it's rising.

703 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:49:03am

re: #700 Walter L. Newton

Holy Shit... Locker... be careful... put all your money down and back away... I'll be right over with a fireman to burn it...

He's gonna' give it to me to hold.

704 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:49:17am

re: #680 Jadespring

Thanks for the info. A list or links to good tools would be helpful. I want to make sure I have all of it covered. I don't what to do a recovery if possible. Although I do backup regularly I am about a week from doing the last backup.

I think from what I've been able to read this is likely a newer version of this particular rogue program. There are sites that tell you how to remove it but the file names I found so far are different. Patterned and structured the same but with different names. I was able to figure it out enough to get the durn thing to stop thank goodness.

Here is a link to the list of tools from a previous thread:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

There is also another tool out there that is getting fairly popular called Malwarebytes which I hear real good things about. You can find that here:

[Link: www.malwarebytes.org...]

705 simoom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:50:23am

Looks like Mother Jones has up a lengthy article on the Oathkeepers. I just started reading it.

Oath Keepers and the Age of Treason

Founded last April by Yale-educated lawyer and ex-Ron Paul aide Stewart Rhodes, the group has established itself as a hub in the sprawling anti-Obama movement that includes Tea Partiers, Birthers, and 912ers. Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, and Pat Buchanan have all sung its praises, and in December, a grassroots summit it helped organize drew such prominent guests as representatives Phil Gingrey and Paul Broun, both Georgia Republicans.

There are scores of patriot groups, but what makes Oath Keepers unique is that its core membership consists of men and women in uniform, including soldiers, police, and veterans. At regular ceremonies in every state, members reaffirm their official oaths of service, pledging to protect the Constitution—but then they go a step further, vowing to disobey "unconstitutional" orders from what they view as an increasingly tyrannical government.

...

Oath Keepers collaborates regularly with like-minded citizens groups; last Fourth of July, Rhodes dispatched speakers to administer the oath at more than 30 Tea Party rallies across America. At last fall's 9/12 march on Washington, he led a contingent of Oath Keepers from the Capitol steps down to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. Afterward, Oath Keepers cohosted a banquet with the hawkish Gathering of Eagles. This February, a member of the group organized a Florida Freedom Rally featuring Joe the Plumber and conservative singer Lloyd Marcus. (Sample lyrics: Mr. President! Your stimulus is sure to bust / it's just a socialistic scheme / The only thing it will do / is kill the American Dream.)

Rhodes has become a darling of right-wing pundits. In a column last October, Pat Buchanan predicted that "Brother Rhodes is headed for cable stardom." Glenn Beck has cited the group as a "phenomenal" example of the "patriot revival movement," while Lou Dobbs declared that its platform "should give solace and comfort to the left in this country." Conspiracy-radio king Alex Jones even put an Oath Keepers segment, including footage of the Lexington speech, on his hit DVD Fall of the Republic. "I can't stress enough how much your organization is scaring the globalists," he told Rhodes on his show.

...

As of mid-January, according to Rhodes, Oath Keepers had at least one chapter in every state and was adding dozens of members daily. Some 14,000 people had signed up as members on the Oath Keepers website while more than 15,000, including dozens of military recruiters, had done so on Facebook. And that doesn't include those who, fearing reprisal, do their networking offline. Volunteers are in the process of sending out some 1,000 "constitutional care packages" complete with Oath Keepers patches to soldiers serving overseas.
706 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:50:41am

re: #702 avanti

Yes, it could be too low a estimate, or too high, but no question it's rising.

Image: rinspeed_squba_1.jpg

problem solved

707 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:51:40am

re: #704 Locker

Here is a link to the list of tools from a previous thread:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

There is also another tool out there that is getting fairly popular called Malwarebytes which I hear real good things about. You can find that here:

[Link: www.malwarebytes.org...]

Malwarebytes should be a required installation on any Windows PC. It really is that good. I used it to clean up the Mrs. Fish's computer from a virus that the regular antivirus just couldn't handle.

708 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:53:20am

I quite my job at the thrift store.

709 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:53:29am

I had a doctor's office pull that on me once, the little lecture about being on time. I arrived 5 minutes late. The waiting room was full; I wouldn't have seen the doc for another 45 minutes.

I told 'em traffic was bad, it was impossible to get there any quicker, and that considering that they think it's perfectly acceptable to keep me waiting, I cancelled the appt. and found a new doctor.

A dentist is a private business. If the dentist is OK with his receptionist having a Bible in view, then I really see no reason to let that fact alone bring anyone to a quivering mass of anger. Overreaction really.

The problem was the bitchiness and inappropriateness of her complaining about the tardiness; I can't see how having a Bible in view had anything to do with that at all.

710 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:53:36am

Army hoists Pak flag in Damangi

Security forces hoisted the national flag in the Damangi area for the first time after clearing it of the Taliban on Sunday.

The security forces and the political administration, in a joint search operation, arrested 80 suspected Taliban, while 20 Taliban including a key commander surrendered in the Bajaur Agency, officials said.

Political administration officials told Daily Times that about 20 terrorists, including a key Taliban commander Salar Masood of the Mamond tehsil of Bajaur Agency, had surrendered to the security forces.

SNIP

711 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:53:43am

re: #708 Walter L. Newton

I quite my job at the thrift store.

What happened?
Why?

712 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:53:49am

re: #708 Walter L. Newton

I quite my job at the thrift store.

Why?

713 Stanghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:53:51am

re: #708 Walter L. Newton

I quite my job at the thrift store.

No way! What happened? (I know you meant quit)

714 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:55:14am
715 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:55:28am

re: #704 Locker

Thank you!

From what I've been reading this particular program has been on a bit of rampage lately. You can even pick it up from social sites like Facebook and Twitter.

Be careful out there everyone.

716 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:55:53am

the new HC bill is the new Shiny Object...

It acknowledges implicitly something Obama aides make explicit in background conversations: The president is unlikely to pass the most expansive parts of his agenda this year and is too tied in public perceptions to a messy legislative process and unpopular congressional leaders.

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

BO is wearing brown shoes with a blue suit hoping nobody will notice

717 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:56:13am

New Climate Agency Head Tried to Suppress Data, Critics Charge

Thomas Karl, the head of Obama's new Climate Change office has been criticized for trying to suppress contradictory scientific data on climate change.

718 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:56:22am

Walter!
Pay attention!

Spill the beans!
Inquiring minds want to know - what happened at the thrift store?

719 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:56:38am

re: #708 Walter L. Newton

I quite my job at the thrift store.

no shit?....too much stress on your back?

720 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:56:44am

I guess the locale trumps the message - UN meeting inn Bali again to discuss climate change. Ever heard of teleconferencing? Skype? Phone meetings? The NY offices of the UN? Geneva?

Bali? Again?

Thousands of diplomats and scientists will converge on Bali once again to discuss climate change - where the act of getting to Bali will impose serious ecological harm and emissions that would be mitigated or sharply reduced had they done so at the offices in Geneva or NY (or even more if teleconferencing).

Of course, none of those other options have the cachet of Bali, so we're left with a bunch of diplomats preaching about climate change all while taking actions that make the situation worse. [facepalm]

721 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:56:56am

Najibullah Zazi, charged with conspiring to detonate explosives in the United States, is expected to plead guilty Monday, a government official familiar with the case said.

Zazi was arrested in September in an alleged plot to build and explode bombs in New York City around the anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

He intended to strike more than one subway target in New York, a law enforcement source said.

Federal officials have said the conspiracy allegedly involving Zazi represents the most serious terror plot since 9/11 and the investigation is intense and ongoing.

Since Zazi's arrest last year, two acquaintances of his have been indicted in connection with the case as well as Zazi's father and uncle

.

SNIP

722 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:58:49am

re: #720 lawhawk

I guess the locale trumps the message - UN meeting inn Bali again to discuss climate change. Ever heard of teleconferencing? Skype? Phone meetings? The NY offices of the UN? Geneva?

Bali? Again?

Thousands of diplomats and scientists will converge on Bali once again to discuss climate change - where the act of getting to Bali will impose serious ecological harm and emissions that would be mitigated or sharply reduced had they done so at the offices in Geneva or NY (or even more if teleconferencing).

Of course, none of those other options have the cachet of Bali, so we're left with a bunch of diplomats preaching about climate change all while taking actions that make the situation worse. [facepalm]

Hai!

723 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:59:02am

re: #720 lawhawk

I guess the locale trumps the message - UN meeting inn Bali again to discuss climate change. Ever heard of teleconferencing? Skype? Phone meetings? The NY offices of the UN? Geneva?

Bali? Again?

Thousands of diplomats and scientists will converge on Bali once again to discuss climate change - where the act of getting to Bali will impose serious ecological harm and emissions that would be mitigated or sharply reduced had they done so at the offices in Geneva or NY (or even more if teleconferencing).

Of course, none of those other options have the cachet of Bali, so we're left with a bunch of diplomats preaching about climate change all while taking actions that make the situation worse. [facepalm]

and people wonder why these bozos get mocked and criticized...another 20 tons of carbon goes up for a cool trip to Bali

724 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:59:19am

re: #696 MandyManners

It's that time of the month. You're constantly on edge, have difficulty concentrating, and wish you could just go back to bed and hide under the covers all day. Is it all in your head?
YOU GOT A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THAT? WHERE'S MY CHOCOLATE? MY BOURBON? WHERE'S MAH WEED?

From your link:

The American Psychiatric Association first considered adding PMDD to an earlier edition of the manual 20 years ago, but women's health advocates protested, claiming that making PMDD an official disorder would pathologize female biology and incorrectly label women as mentally ill.

Female biology is pathologized and politicized. I think feminists were squelching interest in PMS in the 80's because it would show that women were not reliable enough for top positions in society. This research is showing that a small number of women are affected. Better to let that be known than to let people think all women are liable to "go nuts". And let those who are affected get some relief.

725 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:02:49am

re: #711 reine.de.tout

re: #712 MandyManners

re: #713 Stanley Sea

My fault, so to speak. I really like the actual work, I liked the physical nature of it, at 57, being able to lug a 7 foot used sofa myself, I liked the pressure of getting stuff out to the floor, trying to sell it, trying to make "daily" plan and such, but, after 2 months, I couldn't deal with the management style, the certain management mentality that this store had.

No one took responsibility for much of anything, yet, in a pinch, almost anything could be blamed on someone else. If furniture is not selling, ask a manager what he would recommend, no recommendation. But, if he needs someone to blame sales on, it's you, you didn't put out enough stuff, you didn't price it right (there are no rules but you are still responsible).

A lot of this wasn't actually happening to me, but it was happening to other employees in the warehouse. And I was butting heads with management. I had idea that would certainly increase sales and production (turnover of used items) but I was upsetting the status quo.

There was some other things, concerns that I had about certain things, but generally, it was the fact that I didn't fit with the management.

So, I was a square peg in a black hole, I quit.

726 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:03:59am

re: #724 wrenchwench

Female biology is pathologized and politicized. I think feminists were squelching interest in PMS in the 80's because it would show that women were not reliable enough for top positions in society. This research is showing that a small number of women are affected. Better to let that be known than to let people think all women are liable to "go nuts". And let those who are affected get some relief.

I once had the belief that every woman had the right to knee her SO in his groin once a month if he made a snarky comment.

727 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:04:25am

The president claims he has to resort to extraordinary methods because of partisan gridlock, but he has learned the wrong lessons from his failed freshman year in office. Mr. Obama's initiatives haven't stalled because of partisanship but because they are transparently bad for America.

face it...our president is an idiot drooler with no clue...so he thinks he has to resort back to Chicago style strong arm stuff

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

728 garhighway  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:04:44am

re: #724 wrenchwench

Female biology is pathologized and politicized. I think feminists were squelching interest in PMS in the 80's because it would show that women were not reliable enough for top positions in society. This research is showing that a small number of women are affected. Better to let that be known than to let people think all women are liable to "go nuts". And let those who are affected get some relief.

Here's an answer:

[Link: www.nbc.com...]

729 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:05:14am

re: #725 Walter L. Newton

I wondered if you might be too much of a Type-A/hands-on person to put up with it.

730 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:05:30am

re: #725 Walter L. Newton

re: #712 MandyManners

re: #713 Stanley Sea

My fault, so to speak. I really like the actual work, I liked the physical nature of it, at 57, being able to lug a 7 foot used sofa myself, I liked the pressure of getting stuff out to the floor, trying to sell it, trying to make "daily" plan and such, but, after 2 months, I couldn't deal with the management style, the certain management mentality that this store had.

No one took responsibility for much of anything, yet, in a pinch, almost anything could be blamed on someone else. If furniture is not selling, ask a manager what he would recommend, no recommendation. But, if he needs someone to blame sales on, it's you, you didn't put out enough stuff, you didn't price it right (there are no rules but you are still responsible).

A lot of this wasn't actually happening to me, but it was happening to other employees in the warehouse. And I was butting heads with management. I had idea that would certainly increase sales and production (turnover of used items) but I was upsetting the status quo.

There was some other things, concerns that I had about certain things, but generally, it was the fact that I didn't fit with the management.

So, I was a square peg in a black hole, I quit.

Sorry it didn't work out for you. What do you plan to do now? Go back to the theater?

731 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:05:53am

re: #725 Walter L. Newton

re: #712 MandyManners

re: #713 Stanley Sea

My fault, so to speak. I really like the actual work, I liked the physical nature of it, at 57, being able to lug a 7 foot used sofa myself, I liked the pressure of getting stuff out to the floor, trying to sell it, trying to make "daily" plan and such, but, after 2 months, I couldn't deal with the management style, the certain management mentality that this store had.

No one took responsibility for much of anything, yet, in a pinch, almost anything could be blamed on someone else. If furniture is not selling, ask a manager what he would recommend, no recommendation. But, if he needs someone to blame sales on, it's you, you didn't put out enough stuff, you didn't price it right (there are no rules but you are still responsible).

A lot of this wasn't actually happening to me, but it was happening to other employees in the warehouse. And I was butting heads with management. I had idea that would certainly increase sales and production (turnover of used items) but I was upsetting the status quo.

There was some other things, concerns that I had about certain things, but generally, it was the fact that I didn't fit with the management.

So, I was a square peg in a black hole, I quit.

you have to stand by your principles

732 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:06:20am

re: #725 Walter L. Newton

Ah.
Culture shock basically.
The culture of that organization doesn't fit you.
They should have fired the manager, and let you take over.

733 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:06:30am

re: #727 albusteve

The president claims he has to resort to extraordinary methods because of partisan gridlock, but he has learned the wrong lessons from his failed freshman year in office. Mr. Obama's initiatives haven't stalled because of partisanship but because they are transparently bad for America.

face it...our president is an idiot drooler with no clue...so he thinks he has to resort back to Chicago style strong arm stuff

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

He STILL thinks that he needs to school us and get his message across. He's not figured out that we don't like his message no matter how it's communicated.

734 Stanghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:06:45am

re: #725 Walter L. Newton

Onward!

735 avanti  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:06:50am

re: #723 albusteve

and people wonder why these bozos get mocked and criticized...another 20 tons of carbon goes up for a cool trip to Bali

The carbon foot print for the trip pales in comparison to one coal fired plant operations. It's just a way to gripe about insignificant issues as a back door attack on AGW.

736 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:06:59am

re: #732 reine.de.tout

Ah.
Culture shock basically.
The culture of that organization doesn't fit you.
They should have fired the manager, and let you take over.

Precisely.

737 garhighway  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:08:05am

re: #727 albusteve

face it...our president is an idiot drooler with no clue...

Obviously untrue.

738 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:08:12am

It's a bizarre sight watching Vice President Joe Biden and President Obama trying to grab the credit for American success in the war in Iraq -- a war of which both were outspoken critics.

Read more: [Link: www.nypost.com...]

what do the liberals around here think of this bizarre behavior?

739 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:08:56am

re: #735 avanti

No, I am being told that my truck contributes to global warming and that I should get a new one. My lonely truck will not emit nearly as much carbon as 1/10th of 1% of the carbon emitted to get one delegate to this sham. Yes, I said sham, these conferences are about power, not about doing anything substantial, if they were about 'change' teleconference would suffice.

740 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:08:57am

re: #734 Stanley Sea

Onward!

Forge Ahead!
(my favorite fridge magnet)

741 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:09:23am

re: #729 MandyManners

I wondered if you might be too much of a Type-A/hands-on person to put up with it.

I was... I jumped right in, cleaned up the furniture floor, made it look decent and organized, paced myself, had a real good idea what was selling and at what prices, had some idea how we could organize a bit more and it should help... yep... I don't do anything half ways.

I encountered his 30 years ago. Went to work for a few days at a electronic assembly plant. The machine I was working on had a production load of 325 pieces an hour. I didn't even know what that meant, but I was able to do about 475 peices an hour.

Next week, other employees on the shift before me are ready to kill me... they upped the production load to 475. I found out what that meant.

re: #730 Alouette

No plans today, I really need to get back to my niche, computer programming.

742 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:09:38am

re: #737 garhighway

Obviously untrue.

okay, he doesn't actually drool...it's a metaphor

743 garhighway  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:09:42am

re: #735 avanti

The carbon foot print for the trip pales in comparison to one coal fired plant operations. It's just a way to gripe about insignificant issues as a back door attack on AGW.

Absolutely right. The thought there seems to be that no one can really believe that AGW is real unless they have embraced a fully carbon-neutral lifestyle. Which doesn't follow. At all.

744 avanti  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:10:02am

re: #727 albusteve

The president claims he has to resort to extraordinary methods because of partisan gridlock, but he has learned the wrong lessons from his failed freshman year in office. Mr. Obama's initiatives haven't stalled because of partisanship but because they are transparently bad for America.

face it...our president is an idiot drooler with no clue...so he thinks he has to resort back to Chicago style strong arm stuff

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

Well, we've come a long way from Commie bastard to "idiot drooler" in describing the POTUS on here. /

745 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:10:03am

re: #737 garhighway

while I feel that the statement was over the top, it would be nice to see evidence to the contrary.

746 garhighway  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:11:05am

re: #742 albusteve

okay, he doesn't actually drool...it's a metaphor

Were there a way to confirm this, I would happily place real coin on a comparison of his IQ and yours. I'll take his.

747 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:11:32am

re: #728 garhighway

Here's an answer:

[Link: www.nbc.com...]

That was an instant classic. I actually heard that long before I saw it, because we had no TV, but the radio would pick up that station, until it went digital. It really does need the visual.

748 simoom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:11:49am

re: #738 albusteve

what do the liberals around here think of this bizarre behavior?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

749 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:11:51am

One of two Swiss businessmen who sought shelter at the Swiss embassy in Libya amid a diplomatic row is being transferred to jail, an official says.

The man, Max Goeldi, was driven from the embassy in handcuffs. He faces four months in jail on immigration offences.

The second man, Rachid Hamdani, who has been cleared, was to leave the country.

The case against the two is widely thought to be retaliation for the arrest of one of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's sons in Geneva.

Last week Libya stopped issuing visas to citizens from many European nations, prompting condemnation from the European Commission.

'Storm the embassy'

Goeldi faces a four-month prison sentence after being convicted of violating immigration rules. His initial 16-month sentence was reduced on appeal.

Libya set a deadline of midday on Monday for Goeldi's handover, and authorities stepped up their presence outside the embassy as the deadline approached, the BBC's Rana Jawad reports from Tripoli.

Austrian Foreign Minister Michael Spindelegger was cited by Reuters news agency as saying the Libyan police had threatened to storm the embassy if the deadline was not met.

SNIP

750 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:12:00am

re: #735 avanti

The carbon foot print for the trip pales in comparison to one coal fired plant operations. It's just a way to gripe about insignificant issues as a back door attack on AGW.

the POINT is they do not lead by example and they underestimate how people feel about that...they are elitists and this is simply more indication...they don't need to meet in Bali

751 avanti  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:12:13am

re: #738 albusteve

It's a bizarre sight watching Vice President Joe Biden and President Obama trying to grab the credit for American success in the war in Iraq -- a war of which both were outspoken critics.

Read more: [Link: www.nypost.com...]

what do the liberals around here think of this bizarre behavior?

The NY Post's bizarre reporting never surprises me.

752 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:12:24am

re: #738 albusteve

It's a bizarre sight watching Vice President Joe Biden and President Obama trying to grab the credit for American success in the war in Iraq -- a war of which both were outspoken critics.

Read more: [Link: www.nypost.com...]

what do the liberals around here think of this bizarre behavior?

I think I missed it in the article; where are the Pres and VP trying to grab credit for Iraq's success?

753 garhighway  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:12:47am

re: #747 wrenchwench

That was an instant classic. I actually heard that long before I saw it, because we had no TV, but the radio would pick up that station, until it went digital. It really does need the visual.

It had me in tears with laughter.

754 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:13:02am

re: #741 Walter L. Newton

You do nothing half-way.

755 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:13:14am

re: #732 reine.de.tout

Ah.
Culture shock basically.
The culture of that organization doesn't fit you.
They should have fired the manager, and let you take over.

Probably not. Like I say, this is probably not a matter of wrong or right, just what works... and if the way this store was managed worked for corporate, then that's all that mattered.

I saw ways to make things better, to increase sales and efficiency in my department. They saw the possibility that I could be right.

Even the regional manager made a comment that he was amazed who well organized I had made the furniture department at this store. Not good when corporate sees a new employee made better than the current store manager.

Status quo.

756 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:13:38am

re: #744 avanti

Well, we've come a long way from Commie bastard to "idiot drooler" in describing the POTUS on here. /

he is everything and more I posted before he was elected...what a boob

757 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:13:50am

re: #752 ShaunP

Well, its the NY Post. They shouldn't have to worry about those little details like backing up their headlines >>

758 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:14:21am

re: #756 albusteve

man! You hate Obama so hard, I can hear your teeth grinding from here!

759 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:14:26am

re: #725 Walter L. Newton

I knew you'd have a long term problem trying to work somewhere like that. You don't handle stupidity well, and, well... (yes, personal experience) those places are full of stupidity.

And I do not, in any way mean the folks that those places are supposed to help.

760 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:14:32am

re: #754 MandyManners

You do nothing half-way.

Yes I do... I'm terrible at lawn work.

761 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:14:41am

re: #746 garhighway

Were there a way to confirm this, I would happily place real coin on a comparison of his IQ and yours. I'll take his.

my IQ is 187

762 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:15:27am

re: #746 garhighway

Were there a way to confirm this, I would happily place real coin on a comparison of his IQ and yours. I'll take his.

Is that you, Joe?


763 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:15:33am

re: #743 garhighway

re: #761 albusteve

No, no, no. Bad argument. If they were serious they would practice what they preach. I go after conservatives that like to spend my money, I attack religious hippocrites, and I will also attack Green Hypocrites.

764 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:16:00am

re: #738 albusteve

Ain't heard it talked about very much.

I found it a shame. But, I am partisan.
/

765 Kragar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:16:08am

re: #761 albusteve

my IQ is 187

Obviously shopped. No globular clusters.

766 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:16:08am

re: #752 ShaunP

I think I missed it in the article; where are the Pres and VP trying to grab credit for Iraq's success?

They tried it last week, too.

767 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:16:43am

re: #758 windsagio

man! You hate Obama so hard, I can hear your teeth grinding from here!

it's not hate...he's not like...an Eagles fan

768 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:17:01am

re: #761 albusteve

my IQ is 187

ROFLMAO!!!

How's your big boat today?

769 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:17:23am

re: #761 albusteve

re: #752 ShaunP

I think I missed it in the article; where are the Pres and VP trying to grab credit for Iraq's success?

does it mean I have been around too long that I understood that?

770 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:17:40am

re: #767 albusteve

OK you got me :D

Disdain? I bet you hold him in disdain :p

771 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:18:04am

re: #765 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously shopped. No globular clusters.

was it that obvious?

772 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:18:46am

re: #752 ShaunP

I think I missed it in the article; where are the Pres and VP trying to grab credit for Iraq's success?

Have fun, plenty to read

773 avanti  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:18:58am

re: #739 Stonemason

No, I am being told that my truck contributes to global warming and that I should get a new one. My lonely truck will not emit nearly as much carbon as 1/10th of 1% of the carbon emitted to get one delegate to this sham. Yes, I said sham, these conferences are about power, not about doing anything substantial, if they were about 'change' teleconference would suffice.

I don't know who told you to get rid of your truck, but if a older, gas guzzler, getting rid of a few million of them in the next decade will help.

I drive a few older Studebaker's a few 100 miles a year, so I'm guilty too. If we had millions of 17 MPG Studebaker's we'd have a Studebaker problem. The global warming trip is a drop in the bucket compared to the carbon we'll be saving if we keep moving toward more fuel efficient vehicles.

774 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:19:09am

re: #759 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I knew you'd have a long term problem trying to work somewhere like that. You don't handle stupidity well, and, well... (yes, personal experience) those places are full of stupidity.

And I do not, in any way mean the folks that those places are supposed to help.

I know that. I that was a concern from the beginning. But, I also thought that maybe some things had changed since the last time (30 or so year ago) that I tried a production/retail/blue collar sort of job.

I got along with the other employees really well (except one), but, yes, it's my fault, but I can't just gaze when stupid happens, not with management.

And the store manager was a wonderful friendly family guy, but in my estimation, a terrible manager. He was more like a facilitator. I liked him, he like me, but probably not working together.

775 garhighway  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:19:22am

re: #761 albusteve

my IQ is 187

Image: idog.jpg

776 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:20:11am

re: #775 garhighway

In fairness to steve I think that was his point :p

777 harrisam  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:20:23am

re: #684 wrenchwench

Because it adds an informative dimension to the discussion

778 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:20:25am

re: #769 Stonemason

Wow...bad posting funkiness going on here...maybe I should go back to work

779 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:20:32am

re: #735 avanti

It's about image - and image does trump the message. These guys are meeting in an exotic locale for no reason other than they could. They just as easily could have met in NYC or Geneva, but chose not to. What kind of message does that send to people who hear incessantly about trying to reduce their own personal carbon footprint when these individuals (representing their countries) are all jetting over to Bali for this conference? The wrong message - it shows that there is a lack of responsibility (or that the responsibility lies with someone other than the deciders who attend these meetings).

780 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:21:13am

Biden, looking foolish...but we can split hairs all day..

[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

781 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:21:21am

Does this sound familiar?

Dutch government collapse: Will other European troops now leave Afghanistan?


The collapse of the Dutch government Saturday shows how unpopular the war in Afghanistan is in Europe. Will other European nations pull their troops out of Afghanistan earlier than planned?
782 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:21:30am

re: #779 lawhawk

I honestly don't think it matters where they would meet. The opponents would make hay out of it somehow.

You can't win fighting dedicated liars.

783 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:22:20am

re: #775 garhighway

[Link: librariansmatter.com...]

it's an inside joke

784 jaunte  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:22:52am

re: #752 ShaunP

I think I missed it in the article; where are the Pres and VP trying to grab credit for Iraq's success?

I think they're talking about this Meet the Press clip:

MR. BROKAW: Or John McCain said, but the conditions are in place, and Anbar province, where you have been, where there had been so much difficulty, the Iraqis now have taken over that province. We have brigades that have Sunnis and Shia serving side by side...

SEN. BIDEN: Not many.

MR. BROKAW: ...fighting the terrorists. But it's a process, and it's beginning, and the surge made that possible, did it not?

SEN. BIDEN: No. The surge helped make that--what made is possible in Anbar province is they did what I'd suggested two and a half years ago: gave local control. They turned over and they said to the Sunnis in Anbar province, "We promise you, don't worry, you're not going to have any Shia in here. There's going to be no national forces in here. We're going to train your forces to help you fight al-Qaeda." And that you--what you had was the awakening. The awakening was not an awakening by us, it was an awakening of the Sunnis in Anbar province willing to fight.

785 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:22:54am

re: #773 avanti

Cash for clunkers??? I have seen many places where it is preached that one person can make a difference, are you telling me that is not true?

C'mon, this meeting is more about power and hob-nobbing than about the climate. That is the point.

786 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:25:09am

re: #772 Stonemason

Have fun, plenty to read

Thank you; not sure where I was that I missed that one completely, but that's pretty transparent on the administration's part...

787 avanti  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:28:52am

re: #779 lawhawk

It's about image - and image does trump the message. These guys are meeting in an exotic locale for no reason other than they could. They just as easily could have met in NYC or Geneva, but chose not to. What kind of message does that send to people who hear incessantly about trying to reduce their own personal carbon footprint when these individuals (representing their countries) are all jetting over to Bali for this conference? The wrong message - it shows that there is a lack of responsibility (or that the responsibility lies with someone other than the deciders who attend these meetings).

It does not matter where the meet, NYC, Paris, or Vegas, it's the fact that they are meeting that pisses off the anti AGW types.

788 oldegeezr  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:29:26am

re: #173 NJDhockeyfan

The Heron TP drones have a wingspan of 86 feet (26 meters), making them the size of Boeing 737 passenger jets and the largest unmanned aircraft in Israel's military. The planes can fly at least 20 consecutive hours and are primarily used for surveillance and carrying diverse payloads.
At the fleet's inauguration ceremony at a sprawling air base in central Israel, the drone dwarfed an F-15 fighter jet parked beside it. The unmanned plane resembles its predecessor, the Heron, but can fly higher, reaching an altitude of more than 40,000 feet (12,000 meters), and remain in the air longer…
… The military says the huge new drone will give an added element to Israel's ability to control its borders.

The stingy drone thingies, Oh yes!

789 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:35:13am

re: #787 avanti

It does not matter where the meet, NYC, Paris, or Vegas, it's the fact that they are meeting that pisses off the anti AGW types.

Of course it matters. These people are asking us to change our lifestyles to emit less carbon and yet they show no effort in doing so themselves. They could have used a teleconference, or held their meeting at a location requiring a fraction of the air-miles.

What happened to lead by example? The hypocrisy is a major turn off.

790 avanti  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:35:25am

re: #785 Stonemason

Cash for clunkers??? I have seen many places where it is preached that one person can make a difference, are you telling me that is not true?

C'mon, this meeting is more about power and hob-nobbing than about the climate. That is the point.

Just like one vote can make a difference, but it'll take billions of folks deciding to make a difference for it to have any effect. Holding a important meeting in a teleconference would just be sham when we have folks flying around for the Consumer Electronics show for example.

I flew to Vegas every year foe many years to meet with my vendors because it was simply the best way to do it. I see no reason why a AGW meeting is not as important as seeing the latest Blu Ray players.

791 avanti  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:37:13am

re: #789 Bagua

Of course it matters. These people are asking us to change our lifestyles to emit less carbon and yet they show no effort in doing so themselves. They could have used a teleconference, or held their meeting at a location requiring a fraction of the air-miles.

What happened to lead by example? The hypocrisy is a major turn off.

It's just a distraction, the meetings are too important to set a phony example.

792 simoom  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:38:56am

re: #705 simoom

Looks like Mother Jones has up a lengthy article on the Oathkeepers. I just started reading it.

Oath Keepers and the Age of Treason

I finally got a chance to finish reading the article and it's definitely worth a look. The author interviews active duty military Oathkeepers and, over the course of a number of months, attends some their gatherings.

Another excerpt:

At the first summit, in December, attendees included representatives of groups from FairTax Nation to the Constitution Party to Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle Forum. On hand were Ralph Reed Jr. (former director of Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition and recent founder of the Faith and Freedom Coalition), Larry Pratt (head of Gun Owners of America), and Tim Cox (founder of Get Out of Our House, an organization praised on Fox News for its goal of replacing business-as-usual incumbents with "ordinary folks"). Most notable were representatives Broun and Gingrey, who according to summit organizer Nighta Davis have expressed willingness to introduce legislation crafted by summit attendees. (So, Davis says, have Steve King [R-Iowa] and Michele Bachmann [R-Minn.]. None of the representatives agreed to comment for this story.)

The December gathering was merely a windup. In mid-April, another summit is planned to coincide with a huge gun-rights march and a Tax Day Tea Party rally in Washington organized by Dick Armey's FreedomWorks PAC and the American Liberty Alliance—whose home page touts Oath Keepers as a key part of "the Movement." Organizers expect hundreds of thousands to turn out. The Oath Keepers will be there en masse.

793 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:40:09am

re: #761 albusteve

my IQ is 187

It must be all that testosterone.

794 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:42:38am

re: #791 avanti

It's just a distraction, the meetings are too important to set a phony example.

It is the meetings that are phony if your opinion that it means nothing to reduce carbon emissions.

795 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:44:52am

re: #596 Cannadian Club Akbar

I personally think that he thought he had the votes to pass it, ending up with that feather in the cap and his name on it. IMO.

Possibly...re: #600 Walter L. Newton

Well, if he is truly a narcissist (not saying he is, just riding on the concept) then self destructing is par for the course... it comes with the condition. They never see it coming because their narcissism totally blinds them to that the possibility of failure.

You don't want to be around a narcissist when they fail.

I suppose. I am just failing to see the connection between a push for meaningful healthcare reform and Obama's supposed narcisissm. Attempting to solve the greatest challenge facing our entire societyre: #789 Bagua

Of course it matters. These people are asking us to change our lifestyles to emit less carbon and yet they show no effort in doing so themselves. They could have used a teleconference, or held their meeting at a location requiring a fraction of the air-miles.

What happened to lead by example? The hypocrisy is a major turn off.

If it's a global conference, somebody has to fly somewhere. And quite frankly, air travel isn't going anywhere any time soon. There is no technology that I'm aware of that will replace the jet turbine any time soon for airplane engines.

The reductions that need to take place are in the realm of industrial power generation. Which need to be adopted by everyone across the globe to make a difference. Hence the global conference.

796 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:45:26am

re: #795 drcordell

Jesus what a mess of a post. Just ignore everything I just wrote. PIMF.

797 garhighway  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:46:26am

re: #794 Bagua

It is the meetings that are phony if your opinion that it means nothing to reduce carbon emissions.

I suppose it depends on what flavor of denier you are.

If you are of the agnostic "I don't think we know enough" variety, then some of the kind of work that goes on at such meetings may someday be of value.

If you are in the Jim Imhofe/Exxon camp, then it's all a commie plot and completely, utterly phony.

798 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:47:34am

re: #791 avanti

Complaing about people flying to these meetings is like complaining about people eating anything above gruel when trying to figure out how to stave off a famine.

It's the epitome of penny-wise, pound-foolish to complain about energy spent used to try to change the way we use energy.

If someone thinks the conference will be useless, they can give their reasons why. Hypocrisy is a silly angle of attack.

799 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:48:34am

re: #798 Obdicut

Complaing about people flying to these meetings is like complaining about people eating anything above gruel when trying to figure out how to stave off a famine.

It's the epitome of penny-wise, pound-foolish to complain about energy spent used to try to change the way we use energy.

If someone thinks the conference will be useless, they can give their reasons why. Hypocrisy is a silly angle of attack.

If they held the conference using video conferencing, the "outrage" would be about how much electricity they used to power the computers.

800 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:48:47am

re: #735 avanti

The carbon foot print for the trip pales in comparison to one coal fired plant operations. It's just a way to gripe about insignificant issues as a back door attack on AGW.

An utterly false comparison. For one thing, a coal fired plant can supply electricity to 700,000 homes. This is used for heating, cooking, lighting and other practical things. A 747 by contrast, serves 4 to 500 people, transporting them to tourist beaches and hotels.

The electricity is vital, the trip to Bali is a vacation disguised as 'helping the environment'. Shear hypocrisy.

Tens of millions are spent on these endless conferences and various events, that money could be used for something useful, instead of generating hot air.

801 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:50:44am

re: #799 drcordell

If they held the conference using video conferencing, the "outrage" would be about how much electricity they used to power the computers.

Incorrect, video conferencing would expend a tiny fraction of the CO2 that Jet travel half-way around the world to a tropical paradise requires. Never mind the 5 star hotels and such once they get there.

802 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:54:25am

re: #801 Bagua

the problem isn't whether the trip would have carbon emissions rather its the 'win at any costs attack dog' attitude behind the criticism.

Its a case of not caring about the actual effect of the trip, but rather trying to score any obfuscatory points you can.

803 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:59:12am

re: #777 harrisam

Because it adds an informative dimension to the discussion

He admits it's a hobby for him, and you consider him "required reading"? I don't think he even considers himself required reading.

804 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:14:20am

re: #790 avanti

Just like one vote can make a difference, but it'll take billions of folks deciding to make a difference for it to have any effect. Holding a important meeting in a teleconference would just be sham when we have folks flying around for the Consumer Electronics show for example.

I flew to Vegas every year foe many years to meet with my vendors because it was simply the best way to do it. I see no reason why a AGW meeting is not as important as seeing the latest Blu Ray players.

This, to me, seems like comparing apples to oranges. Don't get me wrong, most trade shows really go overboard and there is a lot of waste and extravagance involved that could (and, arguably, should) certainly be pared down. However, with a trade show, you have innovative new products that are best viewed/experienced/assessed through hands-on, in-person demonstrations and/or displays. Is it more efficient to have the vendors set up in one place where a majority of their potential buyer will be or to pack up and fly around the country to court each buyer individually? Which option makes better sense, environmentally? For this reason, it is imprecise to compare the climate conference to a trade show.

The climate conference is a meeting primarily to discuss policy and points of action (theoretically). Meeting via electronic means would provide and awesome example that might inspire others to take note and follow suit. To paraphrase what you said, it takes a whole lot of people making this sort of choice to have an impact. Who better to lead by example than the very people pushing the policies? What better way to encourage others to take "baby steps" toward reducing consumption and emissions?

805 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:17:26am

My dad, on why to go to conferences:

It's easy to dodge a phone call. It's hard to dodge a person.

806 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:23:00am

re: #672 moonflower

I am having a scan for parathyroid on Wed. It is pretty clear from my blood work and what not that I have this - I hope the scan shows it. Have you hear of Dr. Norman in Tampa Florida? This is all he does and he does the minimally invasive surgery. If my endo can't find this tumor and/or says I need the big surgery, I am going to fly to Tampa to get this done.

Good luck.

I have a thyroid cyst too so the Dr. thinks the scan that they did (that Dr. Norman came up with) could not find the tumor (or it is very small) because of the large cyst that has now gotten smaller with the thyroid meds.
I feel better since I began taking them.

It sucks because normally the scans find the tumor and the operation is an easy one...without pinpointing the location they cut your neck up and have to dig around to find which parathyroid is affected.
More $$$, big ass scar and longer recovery time.
The Dr. and I decided to stay on the meds, watch my calcium levels/parathyroid thingees and do a scan next year.

807 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:26:56am

re: #806 webevintage

Stay well. Best of luck.

And read Atul Gawande, if you haven't, and if you're the kind of person who likes to read about doctors while they're getting medical care.

808 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:06:45pm

Saw this on the news since this rep is a local guy and was Bob McDonnell's rival when McDonnell ran for AG: [Link: www.nbcwashington.com...]
Guy basically says disabled kids are nature's revenge for abortions.
I wonder if Palin will go after him the way she did Seth Macfarlane but I am doubting it in light of how she handled Limbaugh and Emanuel's use of the word retard. That said good on Scarborough for calling the guy what he is.

809 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:08:19pm

re: #808 HappyWarrior

It's in the next thread, too.

810 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:10:02pm

re: #809 Obdicut

It's in the next thread, too.

Yeah I just noticed it. Thanks man.

811 car man tim  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:26:18pm

nostrovia

812 Stonemason  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:31:11pm

re: #798 Obdicut

Because three or four of these high carbon footprint meetings have succeeded in only ticking off the skeptics?


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