Huckabee Rips CPAC

Theocrat Mike Huckabee has blasted the CPAC conference, because of the domination by Ron Paul libertarians.

This is where the tea party coalition begins to fall apart, because religious right conservatives like Huckabee are diametrically opposed to the laissez faire libertarian social philosophy. People like the Huckster are very much in favor of intrusive social legislation, the exact opposite of the classic libertarian position.

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee blasted the Conservative Political Action Conference Saturday as outdated, nearly corrupt and unrepresentative of the conservative movement.

Huckabee, a 2008 Republican presidential contender and potential 2012 candidate who had spoken at the conference for years, said the reason he blew it off this year was that the meeting has become dominated by libertarian activists.

“CPAC has becoming increasingly more libertarian and less Republican over the last years, one of the reasons I didn’t go this year,” Huckabee said in an interview with Fox News, where he is a paid analyst and has his own show.

He was responding to a question about whether he was upset by his single-digit showing in the conference’s straw poll, which was won by libertarian-leaning Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas).

It’s curious indeed that Huckabee has no problem with the John Birch Society; they aren’t even on his list of what’s wrong with CPAC. Not a single GOP politician even blinked an eye at the Birchers.

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359 comments

1 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:19:36am

The interesting question:


Which side do you want to win?

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:19:53am

He was just mad that squirrel wasn't on the menu.

3 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:21:22am

Pot, may I introduce Kettle?

4 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:21:49am

Huckster has about as much a chance of winning the Presidency as Ron Paul. RON PAUL!!!

5 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:22:39am

So the crack is beginning to show: on one cheek, er side, the libertarian view that anything that does not impinge on anyone else's right is acceptable, on the other side, the view that anything forbidden in the Bible must also be forbidden by law.

Politics is about compromise and finding common ground, but this is where the two must stay separated.

6 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:23:36am

re: #4 Cannadian Club Akbar

Huckster has about as much a chance of winning the Presidency as Ron Paul. RON PAUL!!!

Yes, but he has a very good chance of messing up the primaries, and dragging religion in to an unfortunate degree.

7 Kragar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:23:53am

For a moment there, I thought I was going to have to say a nice thing about Huck.

Well, that moment passed. Whew, close one.

8 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:25:31am

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There are nice things that could be said about him.

He's just a bit too far over on the crazy side >>

9 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:25:46am

re: #2 EmmmieG

He was just mad that squirrel wasn't on the menu.

Nom nom nom.


10 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:26:19am

re: #6 EmmmieG

Yes, but he has a very good chance of messing up the primaries, and dragging religion in to an unfortunate degree.

Didn't he bash Mitt for being a Mormon in '08?

11 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:26:56am

re: #9 MandyManners

Nom nom nom.

[Video]

True conservatives bring their own squirrel guns and bag dinner out in the park...

12 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:27:02am

re: #10 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't he bash Mitt for being a Mormon in '08?

Actually '07.

13 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:27:07am

re: #1 windsagio

The interesting question:


Which side do you want to win?

Whoever wins, we lose.

14 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:28:05am

FREE THE TEA!

15 Palmer_Eldritch  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:28:31am

Kathryn Lopez of NRO made a bunch of comments dissing the Birchers on Twitter...

16 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:28:49am

re: #13 thedopefishlives

I think I"d prefer the Huckabee side to win. He might want some awful things, but at least he's essentially honest about what he wants. The Paul wing just leaves me cold.

17 Ice-9  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:29:43am

I wonder if he'd be dissing CPAC if he won their straw poll.

18 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:29:47am

I sense a Godgate controversy this summer

19 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:30:06am

re: #16 windsagio

I think I"d prefer the Huckabee side to win. He might want some awful things, but at least he's essentially honest about what he wants. The Paul wing just leaves me cold.

Problem is, neither of those two will win.

20 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:30:46am

re: #10 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't he bash Mitt for being a Mormon in '08?

There's a bit of a dog whistle element to it, but I would say yes.

21 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:30:49am

re: #13 thedopefishlives

Whoever wins, we lose.

pretty much my feelings...it will be interesting to see how moderate republicans respond this fall

22 Spider Mensch  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:31:17am

That's why this ultra right wing agenda, paulians, tea party, some of the other fringe groups will blow away like a fart in the wind. These peopel like to be under the conservative right wing label, but in reality none of them have the stick tuitiveness to really be of consequence. They'll huff and puff about guns, and ammo, and revolution..but in the end it's hot air..it's easy to yell and scream, but action? well that's for the other guy. So all real conservatives , just bide our time..these crazies and there ideas wil lose their steam, but you must always be on the watch of them. This is where our gracious host does such a fine job by exposing these blowhards. Kudos to him!

23 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:31:55am

re: #19 Cannadian Club Akbar

what do ya think the outcome will be? 'cuz I have no freakin' idea >>

24 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:33:44am

re: #23 windsagio

what do ya think the outcome will be? 'cuz I have no freakin' idea >>

Honestly? Mitt. With a Southern VP, either a gubner or Senator.

25 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:34:04am

re: #24 Cannadian Club Akbar

Edwards is looking for a job.
/

26 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:34:07am

re: #24 Cannadian Club Akbar

Honestly? Mitt. With a Southern VP, either a gubner or Senator.

Just so long as he doesn't have a propensity to go hiking in Appalachia.

27 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:34:25am

re: #24 Cannadian Club Akbar

Oh I didn't mean the presidency, but rather this skirmish.

Unfortunately, I still don't think a Mormon can win.

28 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:34:28am

On the other hand, JBSers were unhappy about the participation, and positive reception, of Grover Norquist, Newt Gingrich, and Dick Cheney. Because they are treasonous.

29 pharmmajor  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:34:32am

I can see why Huck is worried about the event becoming more libertarian; libertarians would end the stranglehold the religious right and "moral majority" have.

30 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:34:37am

re: #26 EmmmieG

Or has an annoying leg twitch.

31 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:34:42am

re: #26 EmmmieG

damn southern politicians and their belt problems >>

32 Kragar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:34:43am

re: #26 EmmmieG

Just so long as he doesn't have a propensity to go hiking in Appalachia.

Or exorcisms.

33 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:35:32am

re: #31 windsagio

damn southern politicians and their belt problems >>

Oh, I think the problem is pretty well spread out, geographically.

34 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:36:22am

re: #22 Spider Mensch

That's why this ultra right wing agenda, paulians, tea party, some of the other fringe groups will blow away like a fart in the wind. These peopel like to be under the conservative right wing label, but in reality none of them have the stick tuitiveness to really be of consequence. They'll huff and puff about guns, and ammo, and revolution..but in the end it's hot air..it's easy to yell and scream, but action? well that's for the other guy. So all real conservatives , just bide our time..these crazies and there ideas wil lose their steam, but you must always be on the watch of them. This is where our gracious host does such a fine job by exposing these blowhards. Kudos to him!

it's entirely possible the Charles himself can rescue the wayward sanity in American politics single handedly...thereby saving the free world from itself!...after watching the Conn interview it's obvious Charles should have his own radio show, no shit

35 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:36:43am

world nut daily makes youtube video defending uganda's right to kill gays


36 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:36:54am

re: #19 Cannadian Club Akbar

Problem is, neither of those two will win.

I don't see that as a problem...

37 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:37:14am

re: #16 windsagio

Obamas real opponent in the election is the economy, the the perception thereof. If he gets a crap economy in the late election season, he could have a primary fight and a rising Republican star we have barely heard of yet.

38 Ice-9  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:37:43am

re: #34 albusteve
Seconded. That was impresssive.

39 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:38:06am

re: #37 Rightwingconspirator

Obamas real opponent in the election is the economy, the the perception thereof. If he gets a crap economy in the late election season, he could have a primary fight and a rising Republican star we have barely heard of yet.

whats his name from Mass...talk about a bullet

40 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:38:34am

re: #39 albusteve

whats his name from Mass...talk about a bullet

Brown?

41 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:38:47am

re: #39 albusteve

whats his name from Mass...talk about a bullet

Scott Brown?

42 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:39:00am

re: #40 Cannadian Club Akbar

Brown?

the BROWN BULLET!

43 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:40:05am

What is known about Paul Ryan?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

44 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:40:11am

re: #42 albusteve

the BROWN BULLET!

The problem there is, little experience. Problem for the Dems: They can't pull that card.

45 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:40:32am

Not all libertarians are Paul acolytes. Just thought I'd toss that out there.

46 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:40:35am

re: #25 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Edwards is looking for a job conscience and set of ethics.
/

47 Kragar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:40:36am

re: #40 Cannadian Club Akbar

Brown?

Racist.

//

48 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:41:05am

It seems like the tea partiers may have the same "spoiler" effect on Republican election results as Ralph Nader did on Democratic election results in 2000.

49 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:41:07am

re: #6 EmmmieG

Yes, but he has a very good chance of messing up the primaries, and dragging religion in to an unfortunate degree.

Not to mention a record of really nasty slices at Mormon candidates.

50 oldegeezr  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:41:08am

re: #29 pharmmajor

Slowly they turned and step by step the circular firing squad assembled in the valley of theocracy…under the shadow of libertarian mountain…
How sweet are the dreams of the opposition…?

Very sweet my young lad and lass...!

51 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:41:09am

re: #46 MandyManners

I would still like to see a good old fashioned "Throw his stuff on the lawn" moment.

52 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:41:11am

re: #44 Cannadian Club Akbar

The problem there is, little experience. Problem for the Dems: They can't pull that card.

who needs experience?....the guy is perfectly handsome, and talks well

53 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:42:14am

What I said back in '07 about the kook pundits backing RP

[Link: noblesseoblige.org...]

54 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:42:19am

re: #51 EmmmieG

I would still like to see a good old fashioned "Throw his stuff on the lawn" moment.

After it's been cut to ribbons.

55 pharmmajor  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:42:54am

re: #45 RogueOne

Not all libertarians are Paul acolytes. Just thought I'd toss that out there.

Thank you. I'm sick of having rational libertarians getting lumped in with whackjobs like Paul and Glenn Beck.

56 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:43:16am

re: #45 RogueOne

Well worth mentioning

57 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:43:36am

re: #51 EmmmieG

I would still like to see a good old fashioned "Throw his stuff on the lawn" moment.

Big lawn.

58 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:43:44am

re: #55 pharmmajor

Big L and small l.

59 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:44:10am

re: #48 Locker

It seems like the tea partiers may have the same "spoiler" effect on Republican election results as Ralph Nader did on Democratic election results in 2000.

Sure... that's like saying Gus Hall effected any election. Really not any impact what so ever.

60 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:44:15am

re: #55 pharmmajor

Thank you. I'm sick of having rational libertarians getting lumped in with whackjobs like Paul and Glenn Beck.

I think along the lines of John Stossel when I think libertarian.

61 Kragar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:44:20am

re: #54 MandyManners

After it's been cut to ribbons.

And donuts driven over it.

62 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:44:50am

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And donuts driven over it.

with an Abrams

63 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:47:15am

knocking over the jockey

64 Kragar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:48:17am

re: #63 ralphieboy

knocking over the jockey

Is that what the kids call it nowadays?

65 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:49:25am

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

Sure... that's like saying Gus Hall effected any election. Really not any impact what so ever.

In the 2000 presidential election in Florida, George W. Bush defeated Al Gore by 537 votes. Nader received 97,421 votes, which led to claims that he was responsible for Gore's defeat.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I would call that a definite affect on an election, irregardless of ones opinion on the 97k vote costing Gore the race.

66 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:50:00am

Huckabee doesn't give a shit about the JBS because their agenda happens to dovetail nicely with his stances on social issues and immigration. He doesn't have much of a base coalition left to rally, no sense in alienating potential allies.

67 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:50:28am

re: #65 Locker

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I would call that a definite affect on an election, irregardless of ones opinion on the 97k vote costing Gore the race.

Actually, the number was around 519. The spread in Florida.

68 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:51:09am

re: #65 Locker

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I would call that a definite affect on an election, irregardless of ones opinion on the 97k vote costing Gore the race.

I don't think you can say that Nader "cost" Gore the race, but he certainly affected the outcome.

69 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:51:38am

re: #67 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea the linked article said it was 537.

70 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:52:13am

re: #68 drcordell

I don't think you can say that Nader "cost" Gore the race, but he certainly affected the outcome.

But Perot did cost GHW Bush 1996.

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:52:15am

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Is that what the kids call it nowadays?

re: #68 drcordell

I don't think you can say that Nader "cost" Gore the race, but he certainly affected the outcome.

Don't forget what Ross Perot did for Clinton in 1992

72 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:52:53am

re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar

But Perot did cost GHW Bush 1996.

re: #71 ralphieboy

Don't forget what Ross Perot did for Clinton in 1992

My bad. You are correct.

73 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:52:58am

CCA beat me by seconds...

74 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:53:35am

re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar

But Perot did cost GHW Bush 1996.

Inasmuch as you can assume that every Perot voter was a guaranteed Bush voter as well. That's why I always hesitate to say that either Nader or Perot "cost" anyone elections. Who knows if those voters would have simply stayed home had their 3rd party candidate not run? There's no way to know.

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:54:15am

re: #68 drcordell

I don't think you can say that Nader "cost" Gore the race, but he certainly affected the outcome.

Nader was running at the same time that I was working for a well-known left-wing magazine. Enough said. We were on his fax list. Do you know how many goddamn faxes the Nader campaign sent out on a daily basis?

Do you know how many angry phone calls I got from graduates of Hunter College, class of 1950, because we were endorsing Nader? It was a bloody nightmare.

76 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:54:16am

sometime politicians are like hot rods

BO...
Image: 298_cfd7b19c13e7e271c83b1dde61cb4cd0.jpg

Scott Brown...
[Link: streetmachinemag.typepad.com...]

77 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:55:32am

re: #74 drcordell

Inasmuch as you can assume that every Perot voter was a guaranteed Bush voter as well. That's why I always hesitate to say that either Nader or Perot "cost" anyone elections. Who knows if those voters would have simply stayed home had their 3rd party candidate not run? There's no way to know.


Neither Clinton nor GHW had a majority of popular votes, but thanks to Perot, Clinton got the Electoral college.

Unlike the case of Nader in 2000, where Gore still had the lead in the popular vote, and I don't think it was Nader voters that cost him Florida...

78 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:55:39am

Gosh, Huckabee, Ron Paul, Obama, Hillary, Daffy Duck... not much to choose from these days.

I think I'd settle for Nixon at this point.

79 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:55:46am

re: #66 drcordell

Huckabee doesn't give a shit about the JBS because their agenda happens to dovetail nicely with his stances on social issues and immigration. He doesn't have much of a base coalition left to rally, no sense in alienating potential allies.

A lot of the mainstream public doesn't give any chops to the JBS because they have been hanging around the GOP and various conservative fringe groups since about 1958, and have as of yet made much progress in attracting more than a small insignificant minority of "followers."

This is not saying that they are currently not picking up momentum, more so than they have in the past, but I am still not ready to put them into the lead as the new defenders of conservatism.

Right now, there is a lot of "eating their own" going on back and forth between the Alex Jones', the Beckians, the JBS, the this and that. It could coalesce into something more firm and solid, but it could also fizzle like it has for over 50 years.

I'm not running for the hills yet.

80 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:56:31am

re: #68 drcordell

I don't think you can say that Nader "cost" Gore the race, but he certainly affected the outcome.

That was my point. (why are we agreeing so much this morning, did the sun finally burn out or something?)

81 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:56:56am

re: #78 Bagua

Gosh, Huckabee, Ron Paul, Obama, Hillary, Daffy Duck... not much to choose from these days.

I think I'd settle for Nixon at this point.

Heh, I'd take Obama or Hillary over Ron Paul or Huckabee in a nanosecond!

82 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:57:31am
83 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:57:59am

re: #82 Walter L. Newton

Troublemaker :p

84 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:58:06am

re: #74 drcordell

re: #80 Walter L. Newton

That was my point. (why are we agreeing so much this morning, did the sun finally burn out or something?)

I thought I just saw some airborne pork.

85 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:58:27am

There is a split developing between the Paulian and the theocrat wings, and their fundamental objectives are indeed in conflict, but don't get your hopes up too much that their alliance of convenience will collapse in ruins any time soon.

They share many basic positions, most especially opposition to federal involvement in education, civil rights, healthcare, environmental regulation etc. Some of the more perceptive Dominionists realize that they cannot achieve a true theocracy in one step and they consequently see the Paulian agenda as an intermediate step that would essentially clear the boards for them and greatly simplify their accession to power.

86 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:58:36am
87 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:59:01am

re: #75 SanFranciscoZionist

Nader was running at the same time that I was working for a well-known left-wing magazine. Enough said. We were on his fax list. Do you know how many goddamn faxes the Nader campaign sent out on a daily basis?

Do you know how many angry phone calls I got from graduates of Hunter College, class of 1950, because we were endorsing Nader? It was a bloody nightmare.

Facts are important SFZ, just because you work for a left-wing magazine, you still should still pay attention to facts.

88 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:59:02am

re: #81 Varek Raith

Heh, I'd take Obama or Hillary over Ron Paul or Huckabee in a nanosecond!

I still think Hillary is far left. But she knows how to slide to the middle.

89 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:59:42am
90 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:00:00am

re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hillary always has her eyes on the ball. I'm not sure thats a good thing, but she's certainly focused >>

91 drcordell  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:00:04am

re: #85 Shiplord Kirel

There is a split developing between the Paulian and the theocrat wings, and their fundamental objectives are indeed in conflict, but don't get your hopes up too much that their alliance of convenience will collapse in ruins any time soon.

They share many basic positions, most especially opposition to federal involvement in education, civil rights, healthcare, environmental regulation etc. Some of the more perceptive Dominionists realize that they cannot achieve a true theocracy in one step and they consequently see the Paulian agenda as an intermediate step that would essentially clear the boards for them and greatly simplify their accession to power.

I guess I understand on a general level. But when it comes to policy I just can't wrap my head around libertarianism dovetailing with theocracy. The libertarianism as an "intermediate step" to theocracy just doesn't seem to make much sense practically.

92 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:00:10am

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And donuts driven over it.

Then, burned.

93 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:00:28am

re: #85 Shiplord Kirel

There is a split developing between the Paulian and the theocrat wings, and their fundamental objectives are indeed in conflict, but don't get your hopes up too much that their alliance of convenience will collapse in ruins any time soon.

They share many basic positions, most especially opposition to federal involvement in education, civil rights, healthcare, environmental regulation etc. Some of the more perceptive Dominionists realize that they cannot achieve a true theocracy in one step and they consequently see the Paulian agenda as an intermediate step that would essentially clear the boards for them and greatly simplify their accession to power.

seems to me, they will simply ignore their differences...just like the GOP has ignored the TPs all along...nothing to see here

94 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:00:44am

re: #83 windsagio

Troublemaker :p

Did you see it?

95 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:01:21am
96 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:02:07am

re: #90 windsagio

Hillary always has her eyes on the ball. I'm not sure thats a good thing, but she's certainly focused >>

don't be ridiculous...she gave up a senate seat to lick the platter for BO...she's done

97 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:02:13am

re: #94 Walter L. Newton

I have no memory of anything THAT bad, so I presume I missed it.

The point is you're spreading poison from last night into a new thread. Even if its something resembling a real threat, posting it on the public forum is not a very good way to deal with it.

Lord knows we're all tired of Bagua/Ludwig.

98 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:02:15am
99 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:02:39am
100 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:03:29am

re: #96 albusteve

We'll see, She still has a lot of Mojo in Dem circles.

Unless he does something absurd, Obama won't be that big an albatross (if any).

101 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:03:40am

re: #95 Bagua

re: #98 Cannadian Club Akbar

Unfreakingreal... Man, sometimes you got to know when to step away from the keyboard.

102 pharmmajor  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:03:42am

re: #60 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think along the lines of John Stossel when I think libertarian.

Glad to hear that. I personally think he's one of the best public faces for what our party stands for, along with Wayne Allyn Root, Penn & Teller, Trey Parker & Matt Stone, and Neal Boortz.

103 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:03:48am

re: #99 Bagua

Really?

No biggie.

104 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:04:14am

re: #95 Bagua

Both of you have gone way over the line. Don't expect me to take sides.

105 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:04:20am
106 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:04:32am

re: #101 Varek Raith

Clarification: That was directed towards LVQ.

107 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:05:01am
108 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:05:18am
109 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:05:24am

Apologies, Charles. If it is called for, please delete my 101 and 106.

110 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:05:34am

Let's not dwell on internet bullshit.

111 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:06:09am

re: #108 Bagua

I. do. not. want. to. talk. about. your. fued. with. Ludwig.

Nobody (excepting other people who have an axe to grind with him) does.

112 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:06:27am

re: #111 windsagio

oops taken care of >>

113 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:06:33am

I'm deleting these comments. Please don't bring this bickering bullshit into another thread.

114 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:06:48am

re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar

Let's not dwell on internet bullshit.

So, how about that Huckster/Paul debate?

115 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:06:49am

re: #91 drcordell

I guess I understand on a general level. But when it comes to policy I just can't wrap my head around libertarianism dovetailing with theocracy. The libertarianism as an "intermediate step" to theocracy just doesn't seem to make much sense practically.

In Dominionist fantasy ideology, a Paulian regime would eliminate many of the federal constraints on what local and state governments can do. Theocrats would be able to gain control of many of these governments, something they have already demonstrated in their well-organized campaign to dominate the Texas BSOE. They see federal authority and regulation as the most important barrier to theocratic control of large areas of the country.

Paulians and theocrats are allies because they share the same base, and have the same enemies. Hatred of the federal government and all its works will easily trump their differences. We have seen this borne out in real events like their collaboration on the CPAC.

116 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:06:59am
117 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:07:09am
118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:07:53am

Um, so how about those ice dancing costumes?

119 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:07:59am

And if it continues, the timeout button takes one click to use.

120 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:08:02am

re: #114 ShaunP

I tend to think that Huck is the more honest of the 2. Dunno why tho'

121 Stanghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:08:16am

Thank you Charles. Thank you.

122 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:08:39am

re: #120 windsagio

I tend to think that Huck is the more honest of the 2. Dunno why tho'

Huh, tough call, that one is.

123 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:08:55am

re: #121 Stanley Sea

Thank you Charles. Thank you.

2ndded. (is that a word?)

124 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:08:57am

Because of the way that it solicits sponsors, it’s almost becomes a pay-for-play,” he said. “It’s kind of like, who will pay money to be able to be a sponsor and get time in the program. That’s one of the things that has hurt its credibility in the last couple of years.”

for whatever else, Huck nails it here...CPAC will have big credibility problems if this is gonna be their SOP

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:09:03am

re: #118 EmmmieG

Um, so how about those ice dancing costumes?

I haven't seen the footage yet, so I don't entirely want to comment, but it sounds as though this was maybe not the best idea they could have had.

126 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:09:35am

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

I haven't seen the footage yet, so I don't entirely want to comment, but it sounds as though this was maybe not the best idea they could have had.

Yep. Ugly, to boot.

127 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:09:56am

re: #122 Varek Raith

Maybe I just like shyster preachers more than shyster politicians.

Also maybe, I'm a sucker for his (relative) charisma. I swear Huckabee is the only prominent (R) these days (except maybe Mrs. P) who could charm... well anything really.

128 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:10:30am

re: #120 windsagio

I tend to think that Huck is the more honest of the 2. Dunno why tho'

As a person, I actually like Huckabee. He has a very "every-man" feel about him and I think he is intelligent and at least honest about his positions. That said, the whole "rewrite the constitution" thing does not fly and his social stances are abysmal, so I could never see myself voting for the man...

129 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:11:12am

re: #128 ShaunP

hah well as far as that goes, I coudln't see myself voting for either of them :P both of their positions are just awful.

130 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:11:26am

re: #127 windsagio

Maybe I just like shyster preachers more than shyster politicians.

Also maybe, I'm a sucker for his (relative) charisma. I swear Huckabee is the only prominent (R) these days (except maybe Mrs. P) who could charm... well anything really.

Can't stand him... brings to much of his religious beliefs into his public life. I don't take that from the left or the right.

131 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:12:02am

re: #128 ShaunP

As a person, I actually like Huckabee. He has a very "every-man" feel about him and I think he is intelligent and at least honest about his positions. That said, the whole "rewrite the constitution" thing does not fly and his social stances are abysmal, so I could never see myself voting for the man...

Huck is toast...I'm serious about Brown...if he stays clean he could go all the way, he has certainly come out of the gate fast and furious

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:12:15am

re: #128 ShaunP

As a person, I actually like Huckabee. He has a very "every-man" feel about him and I think he is intelligent and at least honest about his positions. That said, the whole "rewrite the constitution" thing does not fly and his social stances are abysmal, so I could never see myself voting for the man...

Huckabee is a charming man. He's bright and funny and self-aware. Unfortunately, he's also stark raving theocratically bonkers.

133 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:12:23am

A US indictment against four men exposes Hizbullah's South American financing connections.

Following an investigation spanning three years, the three suspects were charged with supplying electronic equipment to a shopping center in Paraguay. Documents filed with the court by the US Treasury Department also provide details regarding the terror organizations' funding tactics.

The three suspects are Khaled Safadi, 56, and 43-year-old Emilio Gonzalez, both of Miami; and 46-year-old Ulises Talavera-Campos, a citizen of Paraguay. They are accused of supplying thousands of playstation devices and cameras to the Galeria Page shopping center in Ciudad del Este in the Tri-Border Region which connects Paraguay, Brazil and Argentina.

The shopping center was defined by the US Treasury Department as Hezbollah's financial headquarters and is situated in a region which local law authorities have little control over.

A fourth suspect not yet apprehended is Samer Mehdi, 37, a citizen of both Paraguay and Brazil who is the owner of the Galeria Page shopping center.

According to the indictment, Safadi used to provide the equipment to the two other defendants and they in turn transferred it to Paraguay. The three would use fake addresses in export documents in order to conceal the real destination of the goods.

134 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:12:31am

re: #104 Charles

Both of you have gone way over the line. Don't expect me to take sides.

I don't ask you to take sides and never have. I appreciate the moderation here that keeps things under control. We should all be able to disagree and remain civil.

When we cross the line, the moderator strikes, which is a good thing.

135 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:13:07am

re: #131 albusteve

Huck is toast...I'm serious about Brown...if he stays clean he could go all the way, he has certainly come out of the gate fast and furious

If a Southerner were to run for President, Brown could help carry the North East as Veep.

136 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:13:36am

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

Huckabee is a charming man. He's bright and funny and self-aware. Unfortunately, he's also stark raving theocratically bonkers.

You got that straight. I would prefer to vote for an atheist, but if I have to put up with a believer of any sort, then I would prefer that he/she does not base any decisions on mystical thinking.

137 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:13:59am
138 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:14:15am

re: #128 ShaunP

I think Huckabee has honest intentions and a bit of a one-track mind. However, given that his honest intentions extend to some pretty insanely intrusive social conservative stuff, I can't cut him any slack for his goodness of heart.

I'd hire him in a minute, but I wouldn't want to give him power over others.

139 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:14:32am

re: #135 Cannadian Club Akbar

If a Southerner were to run for President, Brown could help carry the North East as Veep.

there isn't one that has more mojo than Brown right now...the guy is very near super star status already

140 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:14:36am

re: #137 Mad Al-Jaffee

Geithner Refuses To Come Down Off Capitol Dome

Must be tax time.
/

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:15:01am

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

You got that straight. I would prefer to vote for an atheist, but if I have to put up with a believer of any sort, then I would prefer that he/she does not base any decisions on mystical thinking.

I see it somewhat differently--I am fine with a candidate with deep religious beliefs. It's when they make it clear that those beliefs trump the Constitution in matters of U.S. governance that I draw a clear line.

But I don't think either of us are gonna be Huckabee voters.

142 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:15:37am

re: #133 lawhawk

A US indictment against four men exposes Hizbullah's South American financing connections.

It thickens.

143 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:15:47am

re: #138 Obdicut

I think Huckabee has honest intentions and a bit of a one-track mind. However, given that his honest intentions extend to some pretty insanely intrusive social conservative stuff, I can't cut him any slack for his goodness of heart.

I'd hire him in a minute, but I wouldn't want to give him power over others.

I wouldn't. WOuldn't trust any of his decision making abilities. I find most people as theocratic as he is uses their religious beliefs to inform their thinking processes.

144 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:16:57am

re: #143 Walter L. Newton

Who would you choose if it were Huckabee vs Obama in 2012?

145 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:17:05am

re: #137 Mad Al-Jaffee

Geithner Refuses To Come Down Off Capitol Dome

Does he have his lap-top with TurboTax on it with him?

146 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:17:23am

re: #145 MandyManners

Does he have his lap-top with TurboTax on it with him?

Hell no.

147 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:17:43am

re: #144 Bagua

Who would you choose if it were Huckabee vs Obama in 2012?

Tahiti.

148 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:18:00am

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

You got that straight. I would prefer to vote for an atheist, but if I have to put up with a believer of any sort, then I would prefer that he/she does not base any decisions on mystical thinking.

that just ain't gonna happen my friend...at least very unlikely, but as long as they keep their faith in the closet we have to go with that imo...I just hope that moderate conservatives feel the same way...religion and politics scares me to pieces, the absolute worst thing that could happen is to open the door to that paradigm

149 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:18:51am

re: #147 MandyManners

Tahiti.

Good grief, think of the Carbon footprint!

150 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:18:59am

re: #148 albusteve

I think that barn door is already open...

151 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:19:13am

re: #143 Walter L. Newton

My devoutly baptist sound designer does a very good day of work. I have never known a single moment when his religion influenced his day's work. And he's probably a Huckabee voter, too.

May I also point out to you that not hiring someone due to their religion is illegal?

152 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:19:27am

re: #149 Bagua

Good grief, think of the Carbon footprint!

Yea, but think of the cocktails.:)

153 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:19:55am

re: #138 Obdicut

I think Huckabee has honest intentions and a bit of a one-track mind. However, given that his honest intentions extend to some pretty insanely intrusive social conservative stuff, I can't cut him any slack for his goodness of heart.

I'd hire him in a minute, but I wouldn't want to give him power over others.

Huck would cut your throat in a heartbeat...he is a very self righteous guy so don't get in his way...of course he'll have a wide smile on his face when he takes you out

154 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:20:08am

re: #151 Obdicut

My devoutly baptist sound designer does a very good day of work. I have never known a single moment when his religion influenced his day's work. And he's probably a Huckabee voter, too.

May I also point out to you that not hiring someone due to their religion is illegal?

Hiring and voting is different.

155 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:20:13am

re: #151 Obdicut

My devoutly baptist sound designer does a very good day of work. I have never known a single moment when his religion influenced his day's work. And he's probably a Huckabee voter, too.

May I also point out to you that not hiring someone due to their religion is illegal?

Noting illegal about not voting for someone because of their religion or lack thereof.

156 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:20:14am

re: #152 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea, but think of the cocktails.:)

Do they put those little umbrellas in the cocktails? I have a soft spot for those.

157 Kragar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:20:19am

re: #144 Bagua

Who would you choose if it were Huckabee vs Obama in 2012?

General Zod.

158 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:20:37am

CCA beat me again by seconds

159 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:20:49am

re: #150 Varek Raith

I think that barn door is already open...

maybe....we'll see

160 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:21:03am

re: #156 Bagua

Do they put those little umbrellas in the cocktails? I have a soft spot for those.

I bet they do. And in my mind, all the girls are pretty.

161 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:21:25am

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

General Zod.

Hell, yeah! Why go the lesser of two evils route?
:)

162 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:21:54am

re: #158 ralphieboy

CCA beat me again by seconds

Sorry, crack is on sale this week.
/

163 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:22:28am

re: #151 Obdicut

My devoutly baptist sound designer does a very good day of work. I have never known a single moment when his religion influenced his day's work. And he's probably a Huckabee voter, too.

May I also point out to you that not hiring someone due to their religion is illegal?

except when it comes to hiring politicians...we are not talking about gardeners

164 Kragar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:22:45am

re: #161 Varek Raith

Hell, yeah! Why go the lesser of two evils route?
:)

Zod's a President who can get things done, usually over the bloody remains of the opposition.

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:23:03am

re: #163 albusteve

except when it comes to hiring politicians...we are not talking about gardeners

We were talking about hiring, though.

166 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:23:07am

A number of scenarious possible: the religious and libertarian branches patch over thier differences to defeat Democrats, and then the religious wing pulls a Night of the long Knives to purge the party of those who are not morally pure...

Or they just go down bickering, missing the point that Obama made at the start of his SOTU address that politics is about building functional coalitions and compromises in order to solve problems and act in the national interest.

Don't know if the glass is half full or half empty here...

167 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:23:09am

re: #155 ralphieboy

I am so far away from being a Huckabee supporter it's ridiculous. I'm just saying that deeply religious people can compartmentalize their thinking. If we couldn't, we never would have progressed during the centuries and centuries before the enlightenment.

So, again: I don't trust Huckabee with any power whatsoever. But I do think he has intelligence, sincerity, and energy, which are things I think are good for in an employee.

And it's illegal to not hire someone because of their religion.

168 pharmmajor  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:23:24am

re: #144 Bagua

Who would you choose if it were Huckabee vs Obama in 2012?

A Third Party candidate, definitely.

169 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:23:30am

re: #163 albusteve

except when it comes to hiring politicians...we are not talking about gardeners

What a splendid idea. Let's make all the politicians gardeners and leave us the hell alone.

170 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:24:01am

re: #163 albusteve

except when it comes to hiring politicians...we are not talking about gardeners

Yeah, 'cuz gardeners know that what you plant, you get. Plant carrot seeds, get carrots, not potatoes.

Politicians are a little less able to connect cause and effect.

171 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:24:05am

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

We were talking about hiring, though.

yes, hiring a politician...that's what Walter was alluding to

172 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:24:06am

re: #144 Bagua

Who would you choose if it were Huckabee vs Obama in 2012?

Wouldn't vote. I've gotten away from my more focused political opinions here on LGF so I could concentrate on the AGW situation, but, if you had seen any of my political posts a year of more past, I have had a real problem with the whole mess that is called Washington.

Pay close attention, but DC is full of Kleptocrats, Plutocrats and Autocrats. That's it. There is barely a politician in DC who doesn't fall under on of those categories.

And the states are the breeding grounds for those classes of politicians. You don't get to stay in DC for more than a term if you wind up not being able to fit into one of those categories.

The system is broke, for sure, not metaphorically, not hyperbole. There is a two class system... and they only way to stop what has happened is to vote the whole bunch of them out.

Everyone, left, right whatever, needs to put aside deep political differences and send some sort of message to the bunch of them that this has to stop.

It's either that, or the crazies will be run rampant, you're seeing some of that happening now.

173 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:24:08am

re: #163 albusteve

You don't hire politicians. You vote for them.

As I've said: I do not want Huckabee in any position of power at all.

174 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:24:30am

re: #169 Bagua

What a splendid idea. Let's make all the politicians gardeners and leave us the hell alone.

When they talk, free fertilizer.:)

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:24:39am

re: #171 albusteve

yes, hiring a politician...that's what Walter was alluding to

I may have missed a loop of the conversation.

176 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:25:37am

Huckabee went onto Jon Stewart's show and talked about abortion for 10 solid minutes. That takes big swinging uranium balls. No politician's handlers would say that is a smart move. He has never "blown a dog whistle" on any issue to my knowledge. He would make a brilliant congressman, but he will never hold national office as long as he is honest about his beliefs. He, Ru Ron Paul, and Pat Buchanan are fun to listen to for the same reason, they're that perfect combination of charming, honest, blunt, and just a little crazy.

177 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:25:48am

re: #149 Bagua

Good grief, think of the Carbon footprint!

I'll take a boat.

178 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:25:59am

re: #173 Obdicut

You don't hire politicians. You vote for them.

As I've said: I do not want Huckabee in any position of power at all.

they are payed, they are hired to serve

179 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:26:02am

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

I may have missed a loop of the conversation.

You made a wrong turn at Albuquerque. Maybe albusteve can give you directions to Pismo Beach???
/;)

180 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:26:10am

re: #167 Obdicut

I am so far away from being a Huckabee supporter it's ridiculous. I'm just saying that deeply religious people can compartmentalize their thinking. If we couldn't, we never would have progressed during the centuries and centuries before the enlightenment.

So, again: I don't trust Huckabee with any power whatsoever. But I do think he has intelligence, sincerity, and energy, which are things I think are good for in an employee.

And it's illegal to not hire someone because of their religion.

Progress would have been much smoother and quicker if there was no mystical thinkers.

181 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:26:56am

re: #156 Bagua

Do they put those little umbrellas in the cocktails? I have a soft spot for those.

Don't want one of those in my Basil Hayden's.

182 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:27:30am

re: #179 Varek Raith

You made a wrong turn at Albuquerque. Maybe albusteve can give you directions to Pismo Beach???
/;)

turn left, hard left and you will come to Pismo Beach

183 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:27:35am

re: #178 albusteve

Okay, Steve.

184 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:27:49am

re: #160 Cannadian Club Akbar

I bet they do. And in my mind, all the girls are pretty.

Are all the cabana boys handsome?

185 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:28:10am

re: #181 MandyManners

Don't want one of those in my Basil Hayden's.

Hurts the eye, huh?

186 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:28:40am

re: #184 MandyManners

Are all the cabana boys handsome?

What do I care? Heh.

187 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:28:45am

As an example of Paulian/theocrat symbiosis, just one small plank of the Paulian platform, the abolition of the FDA, would provide a tremendous boost for one of the most lucrative theocrat fund-raising enterprises, the sale of nutritional supplements and alternate health-care products.

188 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:29:23am

re: #180 Walter L. Newton

Of course. But biology strongly suggests there had to be mystical thinking before there couldn't be any.

189 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:29:44am

re: #187 Shiplord Kirel

As an example of Paulian/theocrat symbiosis, just one small plank of the Paulian platform, the abolition of the FDA, would provide a tremendous boost for one of the most lucrative theocrat fund-raising enterprises, the sale of nutritional supplements and alternate health-care products.

Like nut roots?

190 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:30:19am

re: #185 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hurts the eye, huh?

And, it lowers the dignity of the boubon.

191 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:30:32am

re: #186 Cannadian Club Akbar

What do I care? Heh.

I do!

192 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:30:39am

re: #172 Walter L. Newton

Wouldn't vote. I've gotten away from my more focused political opinions here on LGF so I could concentrate on the AGW situation, but, if you had seen any of my political posts a year of more past, I have had a real problem with the whole mess that is called Washington.

Pay close attention, but DC is full of Kleptocrats, Plutocrats and Autocrats. That's it. There is barely a politician in DC who doesn't fall under on of those categories.

And the states are the breeding grounds for those classes of politicians. You don't get to stay in DC for more than a term if you wind up not being able to fit into one of those categories.

The system is broke, for sure, not metaphorically, not hyperbole. There is a two class system... and they only way to stop what has happened is to vote the whole bunch of them out.

Everyone, left, right whatever, needs to put aside deep political differences and send some sort of message to the bunch of them that this has to stop.

It's either that, or the crazies will be run rampant, you're seeing some of that happening now.

Fascinating and familiar. I've only voted once in my life for much the same reasons.

193 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:30:53am

re: #181 MandyManners

Don't want one of those in my Basil Hayden's.

Are you one of the purists who raises one eyebrow at even an ice cube going into your neat bourbon?

194 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:31:32am

re: #186 Cannadian Club Akbar

What do I care? Heh.

Cause...Mandy will make you care?
In bed...

/Run Away!11!!

195 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:31:41am

re: #188 Obdicut

Of course. But biology strongly suggests there had to be mystical thinking before there couldn't be any.

That's then, this is now. Mystical thinking is passe.

196 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:31:54am

re: #191 MandyManners

I do!

Mmmkay. They're bronze and have a six pack of abs. There.

197 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:32:01am

re: #193 keloyd

Why would you do that to a glass of bourbon?

What the hell did it ever do to you?

Poor bourbon. Come here. I'll take care of you. Keloyd won't hurt you any more.

198 oldegeezr  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:33:23am

re: #85 Shiplord Kirel

“There is a split developing between the Paulian and the theocrat wings, and their fundamental objectives are indeed in conflict, but don't get your hopes up too much that their alliance of convenience will collapse in ruins any time soon...

Well golly gee SLK…if we can’t celebrate just a little now; when do we get to drink the good wine?

When they actually run opposing candidates in a national election, is eight months away...
He-double-el, I’ll be sober by then!

199 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:34:46am

re: #187 Shiplord Kirel

As an example of Paulian/theocrat symbiosis, just one small plank of the Paulian platform, the abolition of the FDA, would provide a tremendous boost for one of the most lucrative theocrat fund-raising enterprises, the sale of nutritional supplements and alternate health-care products.

I wonder if that would include ganja?...interesting

200 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:35:29am

In Spinoffs:
New Don Ross Vid
Michael Mann will be answering questions Friday, they are pre soliciting them now at Discover
Thunderfoot is allowing free download of the complete 32 episodes of "Why do People Laugh at Creationists" via torrent

201 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:35:56am

re: #192 Bagua

Fascinating and familiar. I've only voted once in my life for much the same reasons.

No one can intelligently deny that our government has become a large club for Kleptocrats, Plutocrats and Autocrats. And it chaffs someone like me, who is really a black and white type. I won't willfully hurt, harm or try to benefit myself on anyone else's dime.

I've chided myself for not taking "gray" opportunities, played a little of the game, walk away with a little security, without leaving too much smoldering in my wake.

Can't do it.

These politicians do it every day, every waking hour, like breathing, without batting a eye, and we put them there.

Something wrong with this picture.

202 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:36:49am

Speaking of theocracy at the local level - is it not good government if the people get what they want through their government, even if it is tinged with 'theocracy'? I'm not a fan of blue laws, but if a majority wants liquor stores, car dealers, etc., closed on Sunday, or the topless bars zoned to go outside of city limits, then their city or state does their bidding, is that not good government?

Disagreeing with what the majority wants and disagreeing with the definition of the role of government seems to be two contradicting things - at least at a local level.

203 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:37:21am

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Biology doesn't really change that fast, Walter. We we will-- unless specific evolution occurs-- be wired for mystical thinking. It's what allows creative thinking. It's what allows the writers of LOST to come up with their stories.

I think the book Spook by Mary Roach goes into it in some detail in one of the chapters.

And remember that not hiring someone because of their religion-- or lack thereof-- is illegal.

204 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:37:46am

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

I hate the feds...I will not vote in a heartbeat if that's what it takes...I will have no part of it, and I see nothing wrong with that

205 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:37:47am

re: #200 Thanos

In Spinoffs:
New Don Ross Vid
Michael Mann will be answering questions Friday, they are pre soliciting them now at Discover
Thunderfoot is allowing free download of the complete 32 episodes of "Why do People Laugh at Creationists" via torrent

It took them 32 episodes to come up with the fact that some people are just cruel, and they get some sick pleasure from laughing at someone else.

That title in itself is condescending and mean-spirited. Amazing how acceptable that is to a lot of people.

206 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:39:07am

re: #205 Walter L. Newton

It's fine by me Walter, since I do laugh at creationists.

207 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:39:29am

re: #202 keloyd

As long as they don't violate constitutional rights by doing so, politicians and the people can base their decisions off of a Ouija board and a bottle of tequila. And I think they do.

208 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:39:31am

re: #203 Obdicut

Biology doesn't really change that fast, Walter. We we will-- unless specific evolution occurs-- be wired for mystical thinking. It's what allows creative thinking. It's what allows the writers of LOST to come up with their stories.

I think the book Spook by Mary Roach goes into it in some detail in one of the chapters.

And remember that not hiring someone because of their religion-- or lack thereof-- is illegal.

then how come I'm not?....are Walter and I way ahead of the evolutionary curve?....cool!

209 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:39:33am

re: #203 Obdicut

Biology doesn't really change that fast, Walter. We we will-- unless specific evolution occurs-- be wired for mystical thinking. It's what allows creative thinking. It's what allows the writers of LOST to come up with their stories.

I think the book Spook by Mary Roach goes into it in some detail in one of the chapters.

And remember that not hiring someone because of their religion-- or lack thereof-- is illegal.

I'm a writer and an atheist. Belief and the ability to be creative is not necessarily the same. You don't have to have both to be a solid creative writer, fiction, science fiction or otherwise.

210 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:40:03am

re: #206 Thanos

It's fine by me Walter, since I do laugh at creationists.

I figured that... that's why I brought it up.

211 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:40:20am

re: #208 albusteve

We're humans. We have consciousness. We get to battle our own biology. It's fun!

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

Nor did I say it did, Walter. It stems from the same biological basis. That's all.

212 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:40:44am

re: #196 Cannadian Club Akbar

Mmmkay. They're bronze and have a six pack of abs. There.

*perks*

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:40:50am

re: #202 keloyd

Speaking of theocracy at the local level - is it not good government if the people get what they want through their government, even if it is tinged with 'theocracy'? I'm not a fan of blue laws, but if a majority wants liquor stores, car dealers, etc., closed on Sunday, or the topless bars zoned to go outside of city limits, then their city or state does their bidding, is that not good government?

Disagreeing with what the majority wants and disagreeing with the definition of the role of government seems to be two contradicting things - at least at a local level.

What when the majority wants to ban gay marriage? Interracial marriage? Abortion rights? Birth control? Short skirts? All kinds of other stuff that you can list until the cows come home?

214 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:42:12am

re: #203 Obdicut

[snip]

And remember that not hiring someone because of their religion-- or lack thereof-- is illegal.

Of course it's illegal, just like not hiring because of age, but it happens all the time and no one know better. Repeating the obvious (it's illegal) does not make it go away, and has nothing to do with facts.

It happens, all the time...

215 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:42:20am

re: #202 keloyd

Speaking of theocracy at the local level - is it not good government if the people get what they want through their government, even if it is tinged with 'theocracy'? I'm not a fan of blue laws, but if a majority wants liquor stores, car dealers, etc., closed on Sunday, or the topless bars zoned to go outside of city limits, then their city or state does their bidding, is that not good government?

Disagreeing with what the majority wants and disagreeing with the definition of the role of government seems to be two contradicting things - at least at a local level.

What about blue laws that close non-booze businesses on Sunday? How is that fair to Jews who close on Saturdays?

216 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:42:30am

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

In his defense, nothing he listed was really a violation of a constitutional right, though IANACSUEEOTI*.

*I am not a constitutional scholar, unlike everyone else on the interwebs

217 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:42:55am

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

What when the majority wants to ban gay marriage? Interracial marriage? Abortion rights? Birth control? Short skirts? All kinds of other stuff that you can list until the cows come home?

Didn't the district 9 court (maybe not district) overturn the California voters on gay marriage?

218 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:43:15am

re: #211 Obdicut

We're humans. We have consciousness. We get to battle our own biology. It's fun!

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

Nor did I say it did, Walter. It stems from the same biological basis. That's all.

I thought you were trying to say it cannot be separated. My mistake.

219 Stanghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:44:37am

re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't the district 9 court (maybe not district) overturn the California voters on gay marriage?

Not yet.....

220 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:44:42am

re: #214 Walter L. Newton

"Everyone else does it" isn't a good enough excuse for me to break the law, especially for me to deny someone else a job on the sole basis of their religion.

re: #218 Walter L. Newton

No problem.

The Mary Roach book, Spook, is really fascinating. Highly, highly recommended. Got to meet her recently; charmingly eccentric lady.

221 oldegeezr  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:44:56am

re: #187 Shiplord Kirel

Would they allow Policosanol, part of the cholesterol rescue family of products made from Cuban sugar cane legal to import, directly?

OK I'm going; TheoLiber...or is it LiberTheo...?

222 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:45:16am

re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't the district 9 court (maybe not district) overturn the California voters on gay marriage?

no, they restricted aliens to their slums by law

223 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:45:25am

re: #202 keloyd

Speaking of theocracy at the local level - is it not good government if the people get what they want through their government, even if it is tinged with 'theocracy'? I'm not a fan of blue laws, but if a majority wants liquor stores, car dealers, etc., closed on Sunday, or the topless bars zoned to go outside of city limits, then their city or state does their bidding, is that not good government?

Disagreeing with what the majority wants and disagreeing with the definition of the role of government seems to be two contradicting things - at least at a local level.

If it can be proven that the majority wants these blue laws because of religious reasons, those laws should be denied to the majority.

224 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:46:27am

re: #219 Stanley Sea

Not yet...

Is it going up the courts?

225 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:46:52am

re: #202 keloyd

Local control in relation to zoning, blue laws, etc. is a bit like the discussion about unions the other day. Without them there are abuses. With them there are also abuses.

226 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:47:10am

re: #215 MandyManners

What about blue laws that close non-booze businesses on Sunday? How is that fair to Jews who close on Saturdays?

It's not fair. Jews have been challenging Sunday Blue Laws since the 1840's.

227 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:47:23am

re: #223 Walter L. Newton

Those complaints can and do get shooed away by claiming it's a quality of life issue - less traffic, congestion, and not as a religious issue, even though that's its origin.

It's the reason that Bergen County shuts down on Sunday, even though it is a significant hit for Bergen County businesses and a loss of revenues for Northern NJ communities since people will go elsewhere to do their shopping.

228 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:47:24am

re: #210 Walter L. Newton

I just want you to know that I'm not laughing with you Walter, I'm laughing at you.

/or maybe I have that backwards

If you want to consider humor, merriment and laughter always cruel, feel free to do so. There's not joke out there in which someone or something is not made fun of, with the sole exception of Puns, and even that's debatable. I refuse to stop, so stop with the attempt at buzzkill. Many creationists are funny to the point of laughter. If you don't laugh you have to cry.

229 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:47:24am

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

What when the majority wants to ban gay marriage? Interracial marriage? Abortion rights? Birth control? Short skirts? All kinds of other stuff that you can list until the cows come home?

Ah, I was wondering if anyone would notice that I picked the more tame examples instead of your list. In most of those things, it is unworkable for a small, enlightened clique to force its will upon the majority. The lesser of 2 evils is to keep local control despite the occasional bad judgement. If you want gay marriage, your faction must campaign for it and turn the minds of 50.01% of the population. Otherwise, you have to be like Obama (or myself) and split the baby. Gay marriage advocates can get referenda passed today with the term 'common law marriage' or 'domestic partner' or some other made up thing. OR they can bang their heads against the wall and lose every referendum and get nothin. It sounds dirty, but just do a deal now, then work on hearts and minds til you can get the rest.

230 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:47:39am

re: #225 oaktree

Local control in relation to zoning, blue laws, etc. is a bit like the discussion about unions the other day. Without them there are abuses. With them there are also abuses.

I want a topless bar next door

231 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:48:13am

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

No one can intelligently deny that our government has become a large club for Kleptocrats, Plutocrats and Autocrats. And it chaffs someone like me, who is really a black and white type. I won't willfully hurt, harm or try to benefit myself on anyone else's dime.

I've chided myself for not taking "gray" opportunities, played a little of the game, walk away with a little security, without leaving too much smoldering in my wake.

Can't do it.

These politicians do it every day, every waking hour, like breathing, without batting a eye, and we put them there.

Something wrong with this picture.

Well said.

And note that things are far worse in Britain and Europe. The majority of the laws are made by the unelected bureaucratic elite, there is only an indirect sort of democracy.

The voters were refused even a referendum to choose if they wanted this change to their national sovereignty and democratic systems. When one country was given a vote and said no, there was a redo to get the right answer.

Parliament has been reduced to a farce of its former self, and all the major political parties are woefully out of touch with their erstwhile constituents. The political elite exist in their own bubble, talking about the things they care about and their priorities. It's all about them, their egos, their personal achievements, their rivalry, the voter's concerns are secondary.

When the political elite finds themselves on the opposite side of the voters, they do not register that they are wrong. Rather, they conclude it was a 'failure to communicate the importance of the issue' a need to educate the voters until they get the 'correct' result.

232 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:48:35am

re: #226 Alouette

It's not fair. Jews have been challenging Sunday Blue Laws since the 1840's.

I have no problem with a business that does not open on a Sunday or, a Saturday. Or, a Tuesday. Just keep the state out of enforcing preferences based on religion!

233 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:48:49am

re: #225 oaktree

Local control in relation to zoning, blue laws, etc. is a bit like the discussion about unions the other day. Without them there are abuses. With them there are also abuses.

In Tampa, no beer on Sunday until 1PM. When I had season tix for the Bucs, that meant flipping a coin with my friend to see who fetched the beers at 1:01PM, missing kickoff. I always lost.

234 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:49:02am

re: #220 Obdicut

The Mary Roach book, Spook, is really fascinating. Highly, highly recommended. Got to meet her recently; charmingly eccentric lady.

I just looked up that book. Thanks for the recommendation, but back in the 70's, I had over 1000 books on those subjects, pro, con the whole ball of wax. Even had my own radio show once a month on a 50 thousand watt station out of Dallas and I was the go to person in the Dallas area for paranormal questions by the radio station.

All bullshit in the end.

235 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:49:44am

re: #229 keloyd

Ah, I was wondering if anyone would notice that I picked the more tame examples instead of your list.

How is it "tame" to deny Jews the right to do business on a Sunday?

236 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:52:41am

re: #233 Cannadian Club Akbar

In Tampa, no beer on Sunday until 1PM. When I had season tix for the Bucs, that meant flipping a coin with my friend to see who fetched the beers at 1:01PM, missing kickoff. I always lost.

it's noon here in ABQ, so eastern game times are way too early...have to get the beer on Saturday so you can start drinking at 11 o'clock on Sunday!...yeeehaaa

237 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:52:49am

re: #228 Thanos

I just want you to know that I'm not laughing with you Walter, I'm laughing at you.

/or maybe I have that backwards

If you want to consider humor, merriment and laughter always cruel, feel free to do so. There's not joke out there in which someone or something is not made fun of, with the sole exception of Puns, and even that's debatable. I refuse to stop, so stop with the attempt at buzzkill. Many creationists are funny to the point of laughter. If you don't laugh you have to cry.

I don't see how anyone could possibly watch something like the Ray Comfort Intelligent Banana video without laughing. It's just freaking hilarious, in the way that only something not intended to be funny can be.

238 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:53:00am

re: #233 Cannadian Club Akbar

In Tampa, no beer on Sunday until 1PM. When I had season tix for the Bucs, that meant flipping a coin with my friend to see who fetched the beers at 1:01PM, missing kickoff. I always lost.

Unlimited acces to alcohol is not a basic human right. But Freedom of association, free speech, worship and marriage (to anyone, regalrdless of race or even sex) is a basic human right that cannot be subject to local legislation.

239 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:53:21am

In her 88 years, Florence Siegel has learned how to relax: A glass of red wine. A crisp copy of The New York Times, if she can wrest it from her husband. Some classical music, preferably Bach. And every night like clockwork, she lifts a pipe to her lips and smokes marijuana.

Long a fixture among young people, use of the country's most popular illicit drug is now growing among the AARP set, as the massive generation of baby boomers who came of age in the 1960s and '70s grows older.

SNIP

240 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:53:23am

re: #236 albusteve

it's noon here in ABQ, so eastern game times are way too early...have to get the beer on Saturday so you can start drinking at 11 o'clock on Sunday!...yeeehaaa

I was at the Stadium. No choice.:(

241 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:53:40am

re: #208 albusteve

then how come I'm not?...are Walter and I way ahead of the evolutionary curve?...cool!

Awesome! We're highly evolved beings!
/:)

242 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:53:46am

re: #215 MandyManners

What about blue laws that close non-booze businesses on Sunday? How is that fair to Jews who close on Saturdays?

The orthodox Jews can do no work on Saturday anyway, the biggest gentile shopping day. I'm guessing they hire someone who can work Saturdays. I do know that car dealers in Texas can pick their one day a week to close, so they could pick Saturday, but none do.

If religious preference was forbidden, blue laws can still sneak in under the guise of workers' rights - giving them time off, protecting the little shop from the big box stores by restricting open hours. That's popular in Europe and Canada. Either way, if you're the only Jewish family in town with your little store, I have no good answer.

All government is shades of gray and one lesser of 2 evils after another. It's either local government the tender mercies of the iron fist of Washington.

/was kidding about putting ice cubes in your Basil Hayden. I've got an inch left in a bottle of Bakers on my desk right now.

243 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:54:31am

re: #238 ralphieboy

Unlimited acces to alcohol is not a basic human right.

It should be.

244 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:55:03am

re: #238 ralphieboy

Unlimited acces to alcohol is not a basic human right. But Freedom of association, free speech, worship and marriage (to anyone, regalrdless of race or even sex) is a basic human right that cannot be subject to local legislation.

it certainly is...it occurs in nature...OTOH certain basic human rights need to be regulated by the state sometimes

245 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:55:36am

re: #235 MandyManners

How is it "tame" to deny Jews the right to do business on a Sunday?

More lawsuits against Sunday Laws have been brought by various "7th Day" sects than by Jews.

246 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:55:49am

re: #240 Cannadian Club Akbar

I was at the Stadium. No choice.:(

dig that bro....FREE THE HOP!

247 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:55:49am

re: #238 ralphieboy

Unlimited acces to alcohol is not a basic human right. But Freedom of association, free speech, worship and marriage (to anyone, regalrdless of race or even sex) is a basic human right that cannot be subject to local legislation.

I wasn't talking about any of those things. Just said no beer in Tampa on Sunday 'til 1.

248 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:56:18am

re: #237 Charles

I don't see how anyone could possibly watch something like the Ray Comfort Intelligent Banana video without laughing. It's just freaking hilarious, in the way that only something not intended to be funny can be.

I think it pitiful. I rarely laugh at pitiful.

249 RadicalModerate  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:56:45am

Well, it looks like yet another religious conservative legislator has accomplished going even lower than one would think imaginable:

State Delegate Bob Marshall of Manassas says disabled children are God's punishment to women who have aborted their first pregnancy.

"In the Old Testament, the first born of every being, animal and man, was dedicated to the Lord. There's a special punishment Christians would suggest."

Marshall was among more than 20 people, mostly Christian pastors and clergy, who gathered for the press conference in the General Assembly Building.

They called on Virginia officials to eliminate state funding for Planned Parenthood because the organization provides abortions.

I wonder if Sarah Palin will attack Mr. Marshall for this idiocy?

250 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:56:59am

re: #242 keloyd

The orthodox Jews can do no work on Saturday anyway, the biggest gentile shopping day. I'm guessing they hire someone who can work Saturdays. I do know that car dealers in Texas can pick their one day a week to close, so they could pick Saturday, but none do.

If religious preference was forbidden, blue laws can still sneak in under the guise of workers' rights - giving them time off, protecting the little shop from the big box stores by restricting open hours. That's popular in Europe and Canada. Either way, if you're the only Jewish family in town with your little store, I have no good answer.

All government is shades of gray and one lesser of 2 evils after another. It's either local government the tender mercies of the iron fist of Washington.

/was kidding about putting ice cubes in your Basil Hayden. I've got an inch left in a bottle of Bakers on my desk right now.

The basis of blue laws was religion.

251 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:57:04am

At least Coburn is honest:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Love that gridlock...

252 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:57:07am

re: #241 Varek Raith

Awesome! We're highly evolved beings!
/:)

my alien buddies visit regularly here

253 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:57:27am

re: #245 Alouette

More lawsuits against Sunday Laws have been brought by various "7th Day" sects than by Jews.

I didn't know that!

254 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:58:17am

re: #249 RadicalModerate

Well, it looks like yet another religious conservative legislator has accomplished going even lower than one would think imaginable:

State Delegate Bob Marshall of Manassas says disabled children are God's punishment to women who have aborted their first pregnancy.

I wonder if Sarah Palin will attack Mr. Marshall for this idiocy?

That is appalling. Shame on them.

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:58:24am

re: #216 Obdicut

In his defense, nothing he listed was really a violation of a constitutional right, though IANACSUEEOTI*.

*I am not a constitutional scholar, unlike everyone else on the interwebs

No, got that part. It's an issue of balancing local control with individual rights. Not criticizing what he said, per se, just mentioning the other part.

256 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:58:27am

re: #249 RadicalModerate

Well, it looks like yet another religious conservative legislator has accomplished going even lower than one would think imaginable:

State Delegate Bob Marshall of Manassas says disabled children are God's punishment to women who have aborted their first pregnancy.

I wonder if Sarah Palin will attack Mr. Marshall for this idiocy?

For fraks sake, I live in Manassas... Always knew Marshall was a freaking prick.

257 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:58:30am

BBIAB.. going to the store, anyone need anything?

258 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:58:57am

re: #223 Walter L. Newton

That's why I picked Blue Laws specifically. I'm not a fan either, but if you want to earn your Ron Paul libertarian black belt, it's at the outside near the line of what should be allowed for local gubment. "Freedom" means the freedom to be teh stoopid - for city councils as wellas individuals.

Ironically, I am a fan of how Canada ristricts open hours for retailers. Everything seems to shut down after 6 (when I was there a decade ago in the smallish towns, maybe not everywhere, eh?) so the little guy can go home and eat dinner at a civilized hour with his family.

259 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:59:12am

re: #241 Varek Raith

And we've spent just as long doing that evolving as the amoeba in your local water...

/ ;)

260 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:59:15am

re: #249 RadicalModerate

I wonder if Sarah Palin will attack Mr. Marshall for this idiocy?

She will just claim he was doing satire.

261 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:59:15am

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

BBIAB.. going to the store, anyone need anything?

Beer and pork rinds, please.

262 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:59:19am

re: #249 RadicalModerate

What an asshole.

263 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:59:20am

re: #248 Walter L. Newton

I think it pitiful. I rarely laugh at pitiful.

We are all part of the same species, descended from the same path -- so when you laugh at pitiful Ray Comfort you are also laughing at yourself and all of us. Think of it as more encompassing and inclusive, and then humor becomes more accessible -- and fun.

264 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:59:25am

re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't the district 9 court (maybe not district) overturn the California voters on gay marriage?

Not yet.

265 Buck  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:59:38am

re: #237 Charles

I don't see how anyone could possibly watch something like the Ray Comfort Intelligent Banana video without laughing. It's just freaking hilarious, in the way that only something not intended to be funny can be.

It is funny for me only when I imagine being able to whip out a Pineapple and say "That was great, now do it with this."

266 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:00:13pm

re: #265 Buck

It is funny for me only when I imagine being able to whip out a Pineapple and say "That was great, now do it with this."

Or an artichoke...

267 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:00:52pm

re: #258 keloyd

That's why I picked Blue Laws specifically. I'm not a fan either, but if you want to earn your Ron Paul libertarian black belt, it's at the outside near the line of what should be allowed for local gubment. "Freedom" means the freedom to be teh stoopid - for city councils as wellas individuals.

Ironically, I am a fan of how Canada ristricts open hours for retailers. Everything seems to shut down after 6 (when I was there a decade ago in the smallish towns, maybe not everywhere, eh?) so the little guy can go home and eat dinner at a civilized hour with his family.

I was there in '98-'99. Beer store and liquor store was open 'til 11.

268 RadicalModerate  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:00:54pm

re: #266 Varek Raith

Or an artichoke...

How about a pointed stick?

269 Bagua  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:01:55pm

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

BBIAB.. going to the store, anyone need anything?

More beer.

270 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:01:56pm

re: #268 RadicalModerate

How about a pointed stick?

They cut that part, but he had a termite mound ready in the next room over...

271 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:01:56pm

re: #266 Varek Raith

Or a wild banana, that hasn't been selectively bred for the right genetics for centuries.

Image: 20080601130629!Inside_a_wild-type_banana.jpg

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:02:27pm

re: #233 Cannadian Club Akbar

In Tampa, no beer on Sunday until 1PM. When I had season tix for the Bucs, that meant flipping a coin with my friend to see who fetched the beers at 1:01PM, missing kickoff. I always lost.

When I went to MA for college, I was absolutely amazed that they didn't have alcohol in the grocery stores, and no liquor sales on Sundays.

273 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:04:50pm

re: #249 RadicalModerate

Well, it looks like yet another religious conservative legislator has accomplished going even lower than one would think imaginable:

State Delegate Bob Marshall of Manassas says disabled children are God's punishment to women who have aborted their first pregnancy.


I wonder if Sarah Palin will attack Mr. Marshall for this idiocy?

It's the Bob Marshall Limbo---how looooooooow can you gooooooooo?

274 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:05:01pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

When I went to MA for college, I was absolutely amazed that they didn't have alcohol in the grocery stores, and no liquor sales on Sundays.

I've been to 24 hour bars when I live in the Ft. Lauderdale area. Also used to go to one that closed at 6AM and reopened at 7AM. I love Florida.

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:05:37pm

re: #260 webevintage

She will just claim he was doing satire.

Bringing attention to an IMPORTANT ISSUE.

276 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:06:11pm

re: #253 MandyManners

I didn't know that!

Go to my history archive, The Occident, and type "Sunday Laws" in the little Google search tool in the upper right sidebar.

277 Stanghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:06:44pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

When I went to MA for college, I was absolutely amazed that they didn't have alcohol in the grocery stores, and no liquor sales on Sundays.

Visited my dad in VA from college. Went out with some people to a bar on Saturday night. It closed at midnight (it's Sunday you know) I couldn't believe it.

278 TheMatrix31  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:07:59pm
279 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:08:23pm

re: #277 Stanley Sea

Visited my dad in VA from college. Went out with some people to a bar on Saturday night. It closed at midnight (it's Sunday you know) I couldn't believe it.

I think Indiana is dry on Sundays. Ask Hoops or Rogue One next time they're here.

280 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:08:48pm

re: #249 RadicalModerate

Well, it looks like yet another religious conservative legislator has accomplished going even lower than one would think imaginable:

State Delegate Bob Marshall of Manassas says disabled children are God's punishment to women who have aborted their first pregnancy.

I wonder if Sarah Palin will attack Mr. Marshall for this idiocy?

I saw this too and posted it in the overnight thread. Before this guy gets dismissed as some random nutcase. Marshall was a serious candidate for Attorney General though he ultimately lost to current Governor McDonnell in the primaries. I'll give Palin credit if she responds to him with the same anger she did Macfarlane but I highly doubt in light of how she handled Emanuel and Limbaugh's use of hte word retard.

281 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:09:19pm

re: #276 Alouette

Go to my history archive, The Occident, and type "Sunday Laws" in the little Google search tool in the upper right sidebar.

I learn a lot here.

282 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:09:34pm

re: #278 TheMatrix31

Got another link that doesn't require a log in?

283 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:09:43pm

re: #279 Cannadian Club Akbar

I lived for a few years in a "dry" borough just outside Pittsburgh. Had to cross a street on any edge of it to find a bar.

284 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:10:09pm

re: #282 Varek Raith

Got another link that doesn't require a log in?

Worked for me.

285 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:10:54pm

re: #274 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've been to 24 hour bars when I live in the Ft. Lauderdale area. Also used to go to one that closed at 6AM and reopened at 7AM. I love Florida.


Germany has very strict laws about all stores closing on Sunday, which started out as a religious thing but has been embraced as a matter of workers' rights and protecting the family.

But there are dozens of exemptions (bakeries can be open for three hours, gas stations can sell "travel requisites", such as beer, schnapps, snacks and small items, tourist areas can get an exemption, and cities can declare up to four "open Sundays" a year, usually in conjunction with some town festival, etc...)

I find it all rather silly, but I've learned to live with it.

And nobody can be prevented from drinking or even making hooch in their own homes or at a private location, it's just that communities do have the right to regulate the sale and public consumption of intoxicating beverages.

286 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:11:03pm

re: #284 Cannadian Club Akbar

Worked for me.

Huh, it says I have to log in to view it...
:shrugs:

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:11:33pm

re: #280 HappyWarrior

I saw this too and posted it in the overnight thread. Before this guy gets dismissed as some random nutcase. Marshall was a serious candidate for Attorney General though he ultimately lost to current Governor McDonnell in the primaries. I'll give Palin credit if she responds to him with the same anger she did Macfarlane but I highly doubt in light of how she handled Emanuel and Limbaugh's use of hte word retard.

Oh, here's how it goes. Macfarlane was deliberately mocking her and her family, especially Trig. Marshall did not insult her family, he was just drawing attention to how important it is to fight against the prevalence of abortion in our society.

I've given up on expecting Palin to make any kind of a stand that doesn't involve bashing the expected target.

288 TheMatrix31  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:11:37pm

re: #282 Varek Raith

No I don't, sorry. It's on his FB page as a note so I don't know if everyone can see it?

289 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:12:39pm

So, do teabaggers love JD Hayworth because of his policies, or because of his body?

290 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:12:40pm

re: #285 ralphieboy

I agree. If you live where it's dry on Sunday, plan ahead.

291 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:12:47pm

re: #278 TheMatrix31

Mark Levin Denounces JBS @ CPAC, Slams Beck

To be fair, Mark Levin slams the center-right, the far-right, the center, the left, CSPAN, and pretty much anyone else who is not sitting in Mark Levin's chair, wearing his suit, or who ate his coocoo for cocoa puffs that morning. Every time I find him on the radio in my truck, it's good to know someone had a worse day and is more pissed off than me.

292 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:13:34pm

re: #290 Cannadian Club Akbar

I agree. If you live where it's dry on Sunday, plan ahead.


Or go to Catholic Mass and sneak back in line for communion wine...

293 RadicalModerate  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:13:55pm

re: #274 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've been to 24 hour bars when I live in the Ft. Lauderdale area. Also used to go to one that closed at 6AM and reopened at 7AM. I love Florida.

I remember several bars like that in New Orleans' French Quarter. They'd close at 5am and reopen at 6am, basically long enough to toss out all the drunks and clean up the floors. They were like this 7 days a week, when almost all of the rest of the state had a strict midnight closing time and no bars being open on Sundays. Nowadays, things are a bit more relaxed in the rest of the state - I had to go back to my old hometown last week for my dad's funeral (hadn't been there in about 5 years), and found they now have drive-thru margarita bars scattered throughout town. Bars still close at 2am though.

294 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:14:01pm

re: #282 Varek Raith

Got another link that doesn't require a log in?

Here's the text:

Mark's New Note: Feb 21, 2010
I was invited to be the opening speaker at Saturday's CPAC session. I had accepted but then, to my amazement, I learned that the John Birch Society would be one of many co-sponsors. This takes the big-tent idea many steps too far for me. So, I withdrew. Apparently, others were not so moved. That's fine. But it wasn't for me. Bill Buckley and Barry Goldwater, among others, chased the Birchers from the movement decades ago. And they're not a part of the movement. So, to give them a booth at CPAC was boneheaded.

I want to commend Bill Bennett for his wise piece this morning on the Corner. [Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]
I agree with him. I have no idea what philosophy Glenn Beck is promoting. And neither does he. It's incoherent. One day it's populist, the next it's libertarian bordering on anarchy, next it's conservative but not really, etc. And to what end? I believe he has announced that he is no longer going to endorse candidates because our problems are bigger than politics. Well, of course, our problems are not easily dissected into categories, but to reject politics is to reject the manner in which we try to organize ourselves. This is as old as Plato and Aristotle. Why would conservatives choose to surrender the political battlefield to our adversaries -- who are trashing this society --when we must retake it in order to preserve our society? Philosophy, politics, culture, family, etc., are all of one. Edmund Burke, among others, wrote about it extensively, and far better that I possibly can. But all elements of the civil society require our defense. Besides, why preach such a strategy when conservatism is on the rise and the GOP is acting more responsibly?

Moreover, when he does discuss politics, which, ironically, is often, how can he claim today that there is no difference between the two parties when, but for the Republicans in Congress, government-run health care, cap-and-trade, card check, and a long list of other disastrous policies would already be law? The GOP is becoming more conservative thanks to the grass-roots movement and a political uprising across the country, which has even reached into New Jersey and Massachusetts. Why keep pretending otherwise? My only conclusion is that he is promoting a third party or some third way, which is counter-productive to defeating Obama and the Democrat Congress. These are perilous times and this kind of an approach will keep the statists in power for decades.

And what of his flirtations with Ron Paul's lunacy respecting America's supposed provocations with her enemies, including al-Qaeda? Why should such a fatal defect in thinking be ignored? Do we conservatives agree with this?

Finally, Beck is fond of congratulating himself for being the only or the first host to criticize George Bush's spending. This is demonstrably false. I not only attacked his spending, but the creation of the Homeland Security Department, the prescription drug add-on for Medicare, his "moderate" tax cuts, as well as his nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court, "comprehensive immigration reform," and so forth. And I was not alone -- Rush and Sean did the same, for example. And as someone who fought liberal Republicans in the trenches when campaigning for Reagan in 1976 and 1980, I don't need lectures from Beck, who was nowhere to be found, about big-spending Republicans. But this is not about me, or Beck, or Beck's past drunkenness (which he endlessly wears as some kind of badge of honor). It is about preserving our society for our children and grandchildren. Beck spent precious little time aiming fire at Obama-Pelosi-Reid in his speech, and it is they who are destroying our country...

295 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:14:05pm

re: #292 ralphieboy

Or go to Catholic Mass and sneak back in line for communion wine...

I like your style....

296 Spider Mensch  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:14:06pm

re: #285 ralphieboy

Germany has very strict laws about all stores closing on Sunday, which started out as a religious thing but has been embraced as a matter of workers' rights and protecting the family.

But there are dozens of exemptions (bakeries can be open for three hours, gas stations can sell "travel requisites", such as beer, schnapps, snacks and small items, tourist areas can get an exemption, and cities can declare up to four "open Sundays" a year, usually in conjunction with some town festival, etc...)

I find it all rather silly, but I've learned to live with it.

And nobody can be prevented from drinking or even making hooch in their own homes or at a private location, it's just that communities do have the right to regulate the sale and public consumption of intoxicating beverages.

did you ever try to find the one market in all of Frankfurt open on a sunday? it's in the airport, down on that lower level with the long hallway by all the rental car lots. took me and the wife an hour to find that darn place, actually we found it after giving up and making the wrong turn..lol

297 ShaunP  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:14:14pm

(continued)
...On as a positive note, I am personally happy to see that Beck has cleaned up his public act -- as best I can tell, no more boiling fake frogs on TV or pretending to pour gasoline on someone -- and the rest of it. But I do think his speech, which contained nuggets of truth heard before and read elsewhere, including on Rush's show and in my book and many other books, may have distracted from some of the more compelling and coherent speeches at the event, including Marco Rubio's superb speech. I fear the media will see to this. I hope not.

298 TheMatrix31  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:14:45pm

re: #291 keloyd

That's fine. I like someone who sticks to what he believes is right and calls out what he feels a need to.

299 Locker  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:15:13pm

re: #283 oaktree

I lived for a few years in a "dry" borough just outside Pittsburgh. Had to cross a street on any edge of it to find a bar.

Which one? I saw this, figured it might be one of the following:

pittsburghlive.com...

The cocktails will be flowing at the American Legion in Claysville in Washington County, Seven Springs Mountain Resort in Saltlick, Fayette County, and Grove City, Mercer County.

Was born in Pittsburgh and spent tons of time in my Grandparents borough of Castle Shannon. Just this weekend I read the entire Kennywood Park article on Wikipedia. One of the only two amusement parks listed in the National Register of Historic places. The other one being Rye Playland in Rye, NY.

Can't wait to get back there soon.

300 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:15:33pm

re: #296 Spider Mensch

did you ever try to find the one market in all of Frankfurt open on a sunday? it's in the airport, down on that lower level with the long hallway by all the rental car lots. took me and the wife an hour to find that darn place, actually we found it after giving up and making the wrong turn..lol


Yes, and there is a shop there that can sell you a shirt, because that is listed as a "travel requisite", but not trousers, because those are not on the list...like I said, it is rather silly.

There is also a market open at the main train station.

301 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:15:43pm

Re: blue laws, I don't like them. They are a watered down hold-over from prohibition, i.e., "you shouldn't drink at all, but since it's legal, we'll make it hard for you to do it when you should be in church anyway." If it's legal to sell, there is no logical reason to make it illegal for a particular day or portion of a day. It is ludicrous.

By extension, if not working on a certain day is a matter of principle, then let it be that, but don't impose it on the rest of the population. If a company wants to make it a part of their corporate culture, so be it. Chick-fil-A is a great example. Having worked for a company that owns shopping malls, I can state confidently that most lease language requires tenants to open during a mall's operating hours and days. Chick-fil-A has refused to budge in their principles and you won't find one open anywhere on a Sunday. However, due to the quality of and demand for their product, they currently have 1,428 restaurants in 38 states - many of these are in malls that open on Sunday, yet none of the restaurants are open on Sunday. There is no pressure to get the malls to close on Sunday. Likewise, if business owners' principles require them to close on Sunday, then they should. They should not, however, insist that other businesses do likewise.

Life is full of choices and when we make them we should accept the logical consequences of them. Sometimes our choices will be matters of principle that put us at a decided disadvantage when compared to others. It is unfair to attempt to impose our principles on others to avoid the outcomes involved in living by them ourselves.

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:15:56pm

re: #292 ralphieboy

Or go to Catholic Mass and sneak back in line for communion wine...

Reminds me of a time when a very down-and-out gentleman who clearly really needed a swig of communion wine got into the line at my father's parish. He accepted the Host, in his hand, and then stood there, holding it, and weaving slightly. Father, who is good in a crisis, locked eyes with him and said clearly, "You can have the wine, my son, but you have to eat the cracker first."

Sometimes Communion is all about the spirit. And sometimes...

303 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:17:02pm

I can't imagine living in a "dry" area. I was real surprised in Ireland when I studied there this summer that they stopped selling liquor in the early evening at the grocery stores. The liquor stores here in Virginia are open on Sundays which is surprising.

304 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:17:18pm

I remember when I lived in England, one of my fellow students told me "In this country on Sundays, you can't buy a bible, but you CAN buy a porno mag!"

305 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:17:20pm

We have a dry town (Sundays) close by. But private places (Moose Lodge) can serve. 8AM on Sundays, Screwdrivers and Bloody Mary's, bar 3 deep.

306 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:17:25pm

re: #301 SasyMomaCat

Re: blue laws, I don't like them. They are a watered down hold-over from prohibition, i.e., "you shouldn't drink at all, but since it's legal, we'll make it hard for you to do it when you should be in church anyway." If it's legal to sell, there is no logical reason to make it illegal for a particular day or portion of a day. It is ludicrous.

By extension, if not working on a certain day is a matter of principle, then let it be that, but don't impose it on the rest of the population. If a company wants to make it a part of their corporate culture, so be it. Chick-fil-A is a great example. Having worked for a company that owns shopping malls, I can state confidently that most lease language requires tenants to open during a mall's operating hours and days. Chick-fil-A has refused to budge in their principles and you won't find one open anywhere on a Sunday. However, due to the quality of and demand for their product, they currently have 1,428 restaurants in 38 states - many of these are in malls that open on Sunday, yet none of the restaurants are open on Sunday. There is no pressure to get the malls to close on Sunday. Likewise, if business owners' principles require them to close on Sunday, then they should. They should not, however, insist that other businesses do likewise.

Life is full of choices and when we make them we should accept the logical consequences of them. Sometimes our choices will be matters of principle that put us at a decided disadvantage when compared to others. It is unfair to attempt to impose our principles on others to avoid the outcomes involved in living by them ourselves.


Free market: Chick Fil-A does not have to locate in a mall.

307 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:18:01pm

Breaking: Najibullah Zazi pleads guilty to conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction and supporting terror in Brooklyn federal court. Link to follow.

308 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:19:28pm

re: #307 lawhawk

Breaking: Najibullah Zazi pleads guilty to conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction and supporting terror in Brooklyn federal court. Link to follow.

Sentence?

309 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:19:29pm

re: #307 lawhawk

Breaking: Najibullah Zazi pleads guilty to conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction and supporting terror in Brooklyn federal court. Link to follow.

I knew he was gonna plead. Didn't hear the years involved in the deal.

310 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:19:30pm

Hey Walter, if you're still reading-
If you're against blue laws, how about counties voting themselves dry (no alcohol sales, I guess it's the same term up north or Cali.?). It's about 2% less religiously motivated than closing on the Sababth. I don't like either, but still suspect the correct reading of the Constitution is that cities/counties/states are within their rights to do it.

311 Spider Mensch  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:19:48pm

re: #300 ralphieboy

Yes, and there is a shop there that can sell you a shirt, because that is listed as a "travel requisite", but not trousers, because those are not on the list...like I said, it is rather silly.

There is also a market open at the main train station.

oh, there is one at the train station? good to know. Thanks. put that one in the mental rolodex.

312 Buck  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:21:16pm

OT:

The embattled liberal group ACORN is in the process of dissolving its national structure, with state and local-chapters splitting off from the underfunded, controversial national group, an official close to the group confirmed.

313 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:21:36pm
314 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:21:42pm

re: #310 keloyd

Hey Walter, if you're still reading-
If you're against blue laws, how about counties voting themselves dry (no alcohol sales, I guess it's the same term up north or Cali.?). It's about 2% less religiously motivated than closing on the Sababth. I don't like either, but still suspect the correct reading of the Constitution is that cities/counties/states are within their rights to do it.


Britain used to close its pubs at 11pm, but finally eased up. One problem was simply that turning all the tanked-up drunks onto the streets at the same time led to near-riot conditions in the inner cities.

315 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:23:25pm

re: #308 MandyManners

Life without parole.

316 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:23:30pm

re: #249 RadicalModerate

Well, it looks like yet another religious conservative legislator has accomplished going even lower than one would think imaginable:

State Delegate Bob Marshall of Manassas says disabled children are God's punishment to women who have aborted their first pregnancy.

I wonder if Sarah Palin will attack Mr. Marshall for this idiocy?

Is it just me, or does it seem that religious whacko candidates and officials are getting more and more brazen about invoking their superstitions in the public arena? The "God wouldn't let it happen" argument against AGW is a frequently heard example.

In a way, this is a good thing since it reveals the actual basis for their ideology and reveals these dark age throwbacks for what they really are. It is alarming, though, that they feel so confident about it.

317 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:24:19pm

re: #306 ralphieboy

Yes, I know - that wasn't the point (and they do locate in malls where they don't open on Sundays - they've managed to work around it).

My point was that they have chosen to close and give up potential business on Sundays because of their principles, but have not pushed for others to do the same just so they won't be at a disadvantage. They live by their principles and allow others to do likewise.

318 jordash1212  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:24:29pm

Charles, I think you're confusing economic Liberalism and social liberalism. Economic liberalism is a republican party ideal. Conservatives, like Huckabee, support government non-intervention and the rule of market efficiency, which is by definition laissez-faire and the credo of Ron Paul libertarians. You are right about the differences in social liberalism between libertarians and religious right, but economically I think the two have more in common than you say.

319 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:25:10pm

re: #299 Locker

Wilkensburg. Hmm, maybe not dry, but it definitely had local laws that resulted in no taverns or bars in the borough itself. Since I lived on a corner where walking 1/2 block one way put me in a different borough and two blocks in another way put me in the City of Pittsburgh it was not that hard to walk to either a bar or a beer distributor.

320 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:26:01pm

re: #316 Shiplord Kirel

Is it just me, or does it seem that religious whacko candidates and officials are getting more and more brazen about invoking their superstitions in the public arena? The "God wouldn't let it happen" argument against AGW is a frequently heard example.

In a way, this is a good thing since it reveals the actual basis for their ideology and reveals these dark age throwbacks for what they really are. It is alarming, though, that they feel so confident about it.

God would give a child a disability to punish its mother for an abortion. God would, of course, not allow the climate to be screwed up by centuries of pollution and reckless use.

Sure there's some theological consistency here.

321 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:28:01pm

re: #307 lawhawk

Breaking: Najibullah Zazi pleads guilty to conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction and supporting terror in Brooklyn federal court. Link to follow.

That was over quick.

322 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:28:37pm

re: #320 SanFranciscoZionist

Pretty OT, but it raised a memory.

The doctors used to tell my mother that her child was autistic because she was a cold parent.

"Blame the mother" has a long dark history in our culture on both the scientific and religious side.

323 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:32:48pm

re: #321 RogueOne

He was negotiating a plea deal soon after his arrest.

324 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:32:49pm

re: #320 SanFranciscoZionist

I think the lesson here is The Almighty is big and patient enough to allow his creatures to make up some bull crap and put words in His mouth, and He just lets it go.

325 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:33:00pm

re: #322 windsagio

Pretty OT, but it raised a memory.

The doctors used to tell my mother that her child was autistic because she was a cold parent.

"Blame the mother" has a long dark history in our culture on both the scientific and religious side.

To the end of their lives my maternal (fundamentalist) grandparents asserted that I should be last among the grandchildren in order to punish my mother for having me out of wedlock. They thought they were being gracious for accepting me at all. They were vaguely embarrassed when I became the first ever member of the family to graduate from college.

326 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:34:22pm

re: #290 Cannadian Club Akbar

I agree. If you live where it's dry on Sunday, plan ahead.

You can't buy booze in a store on Sundays in Indiana..

327 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:34:29pm

re: #325 Shiplord Kirel

wow... Punishing the child is way worse than punishing the mother.

...altho' I"m sure she got some too.

My condolences.


~~

I guess the lesson is that religion and social more's can make you blind to the terrible things you do. ... Actually thats not much of a new lesson at all >>

328 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:34:45pm

Dear GOP Leadership and Primary Voters:

If you want to guarantee that this "right of center conservative leaning Independent" votes for Barack Obama in 2012, you should nominate and/or prominently feature the following individuals:

Sarah Palin
Mike Huckabee
Ron Paul

329 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:35:57pm

re: #323 darthstar

He was negotiating a plea deal soon after his arrest.

He gave up quick. His conviction was a foregone conclusion but I wonder why he didn't drag it out?

330 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:37:34pm

re: #329 RogueOne

Thats why you let the FBI use police procedures on these guys to get them to cooperate instead of resorting to 'harsh interrogation tactics'. It simply works better >>

331 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:37:37pm

The area of Northern Va where Marshall is from, Mansassas which I am sure you who are Civil War buffs know about and its place in American History is one of the more conservative areas in this part of the state. Don't know why but it seems to have a lot more so-cons compared to the rest of the region.

332 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:38:32pm

re: #325 Shiplord Kirel

At least they were embarrassed. Think if they were the types who are the source of the "a third grade education was good enough for me, therefore it's good enough for my children" meme.

333 Vambo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:38:39pm

O/T Sarah Palin fun!
[Link: theimmoralminority.blogspot.com...]

watcha think? How many Triggs are there?

334 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:38:59pm

re: #330 windsagio

Thats why you let the FBI use police procedures on these guys to get them to cooperate instead of resorting to 'harsh interrogation tactics'. It simply works better >>

So he was sweet-talked into pleading guilty? That's your argument?

335 Stanghazi  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:39:26pm

re: #325 Shiplord Kirel

To the end of their lives my maternal (fundamentalist) grandparents asserted that I should be last among the grandchildren in order to punish my mother for having me out of wedlock. They thought they were being gracious for accepting me at all. They were vaguely embarrassed when I became the first ever member of the family to graduate from college.

Heavy. My step-grandparents were very religious Baptists, and very very very hypocritical with their love. Sad memory I have.

336 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:40:32pm

re: #334 RogueOne

"Sweet talked"?

Thats a pretty amazing way to boil down an interesting and complex aspect of criminal justice into one inaccurate descriptor.


Theres much much more to it than that.... Anyways, the goal is results right?

337 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:43:00pm

re: #327 windsagio

wow... Punishing the child is way worse than punishing the mother.

...altho' I"m sure she got some too.

My condolences.

~~

I guess the lesson is that religion and social more's can make you blind to the terrible things you do. ... Actually thats not much of a new lesson at all >>

It became customary in the extended family to automatically disparage my achievements, choices, and associates. When I went to Cornell, the morons ridiculed it as a yankee-hippy school and compared it unfavorably to Texas Tech (My brother and I are the only ones among 13 grandchildren who finished ANY college). When I joined the army and became a commissioned officer, they had to disparage the whole officer corps, if not the whole army, (none of them served more than 4 years or rose above E-4). When I got my doctorate (at Texas Tech btw), they pointed out that I wasn't really a doctor, just a glorified rock hunter.
Today, they wonder why I wouldn't piss down their throats if their tonsils were on fire.

338 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:45:45pm

re: #337 Shiplord Kirel

Have you seen "rough science"? A chemist actually gets mercury out of cinnabar in it.

Great show.

I'm sorry your family doesn't give you the respect you deserve. But that's the thing about respect; those who don't give it when they should, it wouldn't mean much if they did.

339 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:46:02pm

I mainly remember my grandparents as being elderly matrons cooking meals or as semi-cranky grandfathers who thought the youngsters were being too noisy and rambunctious. Comes from being the youngest son of the youngest son (and daughter) and thus a larger generation gap in terms of age. I did appreciate them a great deal though.

340 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:51:23pm

re: #337 Shiplord Kirel

Rock-hunter? Texas Tech? My brother has his geology doctorate from there.

341 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:51:41pm

re: #340 oaktree

UH OH! The plot thickens!

342 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:52:03pm

re: #340 oaktree

Rock-hunter? Texas Tech? My brother has his geology doctorate from there.

Very cool. He's likely to know me then.

343 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:52:27pm

re: #341 windsagio

Yea. Stunned shock if Shiplord turns out to be my brother posting on LGF!!!11!!!

:)

344 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:53:29pm

re: #343 oaktree

Awkward family reunion in that >>

345 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 12:54:34pm

re: #342 Shiplord Kirel

He's currently on the faculty at SUNY Geneseo. That should be sufficient I think to indicate that you might know him.

346 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:17:38pm

re: #35 spacejesus

world nut daily makes youtube video defending uganda's right to kill gays

[Video]

Holy hell, that is freakin' evil. Stinks mightily of Taliban-style thought.

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:20:10pm

re: #322 windsagio

Pretty OT, but it raised a memory.

The doctors used to tell my mother that her child was autistic because she was a cold parent.

"Blame the mother" has a long dark history in our culture on both the scientific and religious side.

Oh, God. The 'refrigerator mother' theory. With no science behind it at all.

348 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:23:21pm

re: #336 windsagio

"Sweet talked"?

Thats a pretty amazing way to boil down an interesting and complex aspect of criminal justice into one inaccurate descriptor.

Theres much much more to it than that... Anyways, the goal is results right?

Maybe you could enlighten me on what techniques the feds are allowed to engage in that would not be considered "sweet talk" when compared to a military detention? The harshest treatment they're allowed to engage in is threatening to give him day old donuts. "Interesting and complex", Hahahaha!

349 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:23:23pm

re: #325 Shiplord Kirel

To the end of their lives my maternal (fundamentalist) grandparents asserted that I should be last among the grandchildren in order to punish my mother for having me out of wedlock. They thought they were being gracious for accepting me at all. They were vaguely embarrassed when I became the first ever member of the family to graduate from college.

We had a huge family flap a few years ago when an elderly cousin tried to get my grandmother, as 'head of the family' stop her nephew from naming his son after his grandfather, "because I don't want a bastard to have my brother's name'.

My grandmother drank through the entire episode, and the baby was named for his late grandpa.

350 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:24:29pm

re: #331 HappyWarrior

The area of Northern Va where Marshall is from, Mansassas which I am sure you who are Civil War buffs know about and its place in American History is one of the more conservative areas in this part of the state. Don't know why but it seems to have a lot more so-cons compared to the rest of the region.

I believe I have heard of a town called Mannassas.

/

351 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:27:05pm

re: #333 Vambo

O/T Sarah Palin fun!
[Link: theimmoralminority.blogspot.com...]

watcha think? How many Triggs are there?

I'm staying far away from all that, and suggest you do likewise.

352 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:28:36pm

re: #337 Shiplord Kirel

It became customary in the extended family to automatically disparage my achievements, choices, and associates. When I went to Cornell, the morons ridiculed it as a yankee-hippy school and compared it unfavorably to Texas Tech (My brother and I are the only ones among 13 grandchildren who finished ANY college). When I joined the army and became a commissioned officer, they had to disparage the whole officer corps, if not the whole army, (none of them served more than 4 years or rose above E-4). When I got my doctorate (at Texas Tech btw), they pointed out that I wasn't really a doctor, just a glorified rock hunter.
Today, they wonder why I wouldn't piss down their throats if their tonsils were on fire.

Sounds like they're lucky you stopped there. If you'd become the head of whatever denomination they follow...you see where this could go.

353 BunnyThief  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:45:56pm

Perhaps someone should explain to Mr. Huckabee that the first C in CPAC stands for "Conservative," and not "Republican."

The two are NOT synonymous. If one were to draw a Venn diagram, there would be a great deal of overlap, but they are NOT the same.

And Mr. Huckabee qualifies as a partial social conservative, but he's hardly a true-blue conservative across the board.

354 Stuart Leviton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 1:54:56pm

I'm surprised Neturei Karta wasn't at CPAC.

//

355 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:34:56pm
Not a single GOP politician even blinked an eye at the Birchers.

I have to wonder if perhaps GOP politicians simply don't consider the John Birch Society to be relevant, or worth even the recognition of denouncing them in public. Perhaps it's enough that the JBC is a conservative group that offers its support (in its own way) by drawing in conservatives from another walk of life.

Now granted, it still doesn't make it right - the JBC is an extreme group and not denouncing them gives the distinct impression that the GOP wants their support regardless. Maybe I'm giving this far too much thought though.

356 wiffersnapper  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 2:53:58pm

Huck better watch his words. If he keeps saying these sorts of things, Ron Paul is going to cream him in the online polls. Oh wait...

357 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:22:26pm

It seems to me that the greatest threat to (R)'s and (D)'s is actual freedom.

358 elizajane  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 3:43:34pm

re: #35 spacejesus

OK, that is one of the most vile things I have ever seen. Somehow the fact that it's all peppy and post-modern in its tone and visual style makes it even more creepy.

359 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:46:30pm

re: #358 elizajane

OK, that is one of the most vile things I have ever seen. Somehow the fact that it's all peppy and post-modern in its tone and visual style makes it even more creepy.

oh yeah, be sure to watch these guys' other videos too. they think theyre real funny or something.


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